From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Jun 1 04:22:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA05864 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 04:22:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f From: Tricia George Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09468 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 20:48:33 -0700 Received: from smui3.eng00.mindspring.net (smui3.eng00.mindspring.net [207.69.200.50]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA22910; Wed, 31 May 2000 23:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by smui3.eng00.mindspring.net id XAA0000008163; Wed, 31 May 2000 23:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 23:48:02 -0400 To: Tu Vu Cc: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] What's happening to footbag??? Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: 207.222.5.199 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I used to love going to tourneys like Montreal and portland that had stands packed full of spectators watching the net finals because sites were geared to high exposure. Well, I can speak for Portland and tell you that we are STILL gearing up for high exposure for the US Open. Just today I ordered bleachers for nearly 1000 specatators. We will again be at the Bite of Portland, guaranteed to expose tens of thousands to the sport once again. In Portland, the news media responds very favorably to us, and usually with one phone call we can get any channel out there. This is due to years of PR, and having the sport invented in our back yard. We would love nothing more than to have the likes of you and other amazing freestylers shredding around the finals site and stopping people in their tracks. It is hard to get freestylers to come to our tournament because we can offer no monetary incentives and there is no competition. Just lots of exposure. :-) BUT.....I couldn't agree with you more that the players are getting tired. They are growing older and rearranging their priorities too.I no longer have the time to spend weekends hunting down new players. We try to kick on weekends in a heavily exposed spot, but rarely do we have seriously interested people come and join us. It troubles me that I feel a little guilty. Like I am letting the sport down by not relentlessly promoting it. Now, I just want to play... with the little time that I have. I don't have any answers.....I never really could figure out the waxing and waning of footbag interest over the years. I consider myself incredibly fortunate to have had the opportunities to meet the people that I have and make life long friendships. It is like we have an incredibly wonderful secret that we are desperate to share. Tricia G. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Jun 1 19:32:27 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA08103 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 19:32:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from www.prairie.lakes.com (Modem037-Waseca.lakes.com [216.161.105.37]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA01440 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 04:48:39 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by www.prairie.lakes.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA00232 for footbag@footbag.org; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 06:50:45 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from root) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 06:50:45 -0500 From: "Leo Skagerberg" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] What's happening to footbag??? Message-ID: <20000601065045.A193@www.clear.lakes.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from kicking@ix.netcom.com on Wed, May 31, 2000 at 11:48:02PM -0400 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org hmmm, I normally do not post much on here, but I kinda felt that this issue was calling me. People get old and players can't play their entire lives. So, why aren't we concentrating more on youth? I haven't heard one response yet that has said anything about needing more young people to get involved. A year ago when I was still in high school, I had my principal anticipating the idea of having a footbag league. We talked to other schools, and a few around us were interested. For some reason extreme budget cuts were made this year and that principal was fired leaving us with some old lady who won't even let me near her office. Anyways, if there are any high schoolers out there who are intested contact me and I'll see what I can do for you. Just wanting to get my peice out, everyone grows old, you just need some people to replace them. And, from the top of my mind, schools seem to get very good publicity if they're doing things right. later, leo From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Jun 1 20:04:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA08272 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:04:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08269 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:04:19 -0700 Received: from fep1.excitehome.net (fep1.excitehome.net [24.0.26.112]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18415 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:33:50 -0700 Received: from [24.16.24.8] by fep1.excitehome.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000601193315.DCZH1079.fep1.excitehome.net@[24.16.24.8]> for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:33:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:33:53 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] What's happening to footbag??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I was really glad Tu posted what he wrote, and I'm happy to see some discussion on this topic so far (and I look forward to more). I think this is a perfect issue to bring up on this mailing list. But I honestly think the question is being framed based on an incorrect premise. I mean, yes, in the last few years things have changed considerably. But in my possibly-not-so-humble opinion, the sport has grown *dramatically* in the last 10 years. Our sport is *changing*, not falling apart. Change is good. You just have to identify what's different so you don't keep pining for the good ol' days, or you'll miss out on the good parts of the change (viz: grumpy old men who hate rock and roll music :-)). The way we promote footbag today is different than it used to be. For whatever reason, and for better or worse. I guess I can say this because I'm one of the 15 people who've spent a lot of energy over the last 10 years promoting this sport and trying to get it "to the next level". While we may not have as much energy at tournaments, the fact is that the overall participation in the sport (both net and freestyle) is without a doubt on the rise globally. I wouldn't dare claim any credit, but the Internet has truly enabled us to grow in ways that are dramatically different than before. Rather than spend a lot of energy on promoting a single event as a source to promote the sport -- whether by garnering media attention to try to show the top levels of play to audiences in a metropolitain area in a quick sound-bite on the local news, or by conning MTV sports to run a 1-second video on their pseudo-mainstream satellite feed -- we can now reach millions of users (and we have) through the internet. Yes, they have to be interested, but if they are even peripherally interested, they can easily find video, instructional materials, on-line catalogs, and much more on the web. Where we used to measure our promotional success in terms of how many national TV appearances we had, or how big of a crowd we had on finals day at a big tournament, now we are measured on number of clubs around the world, number of players around the world, number of official organizations (IFC-sanctioned local/national governing bodies), and number of IFC-sanctioned competitions. These, I claim, are all up *sharply* from their 10-year-ago marks. I have a lot more to say on this subject, so stay tuned. I just wanted to get this first point out there now so I can get back to work. :-) I'll leave you with this thought: the change in tournament attendance from this year and five years ago is not statistically significant. Our entire sport's population (those who compete regularly) is so small (which is okay), that most variation in attendance is well within one standard deviation of the average. So, if one singles net champion is sick, one women's net player gives birth, one tournament director has a job where he works far too much and can't do the usual level of promotion, or one freestyle has knee surgery, it looks like the sport is declining. Yes, we're small. But we're not dead or even dying. (And another thing -- this sport is very cyclical. We're definitely in a slump *this year* in terms of competitors attending net tournaments specifically, but I argue that it doesn't really mean much at all and you'll see the numbers rise again soon.) Honestly, folks, we are doing great. (This coming from a perfectionist with high hopes for the sport.) Thanks for coming to those of you who attended Western Regionals. 71 players was nothing to balk at. You made it happen. (And when you count shredders who only competed in shred and novices, we were pretty much close to the 100 mark anyway.) Steve From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Jun 2 01:18:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA09128 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 01:18:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailrelayerformercurymailsites.more.net (mailrelayerformercurymailsites.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24936 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:10:37 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.174.60]) by mailrelayerformercurymailsites.more.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA11753 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 17:10:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [4.3.96.201] by mlerf.org (CommuniGate SMTP 3.1.3) with ESMTP id S.2174826052iq for ; Thu, 01 Jun 2000 17:10:08 -0500 Message-ID: <3936DF5F.B7A037C3@gte.net> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 17:10:40 -0500 From: Ida Bettis-Fogle Reply-To: mama.ida@gte.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] What's happening to footbag??? References: <20000601065045.A193@www.clear.lakes.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Leo Skagerberg wrote: > Just wanting to get my peice out, everyone grows old, you just need some people to replace them. And, from the top of my mind, schools seem to get very good publicity if they're doing things right. This is one reason why touring teams used to go to schools a lot, I think. Adding to Leo's thread here - even if you're not a high schooler or working directly through a high school, you can still publicize to high schoolers. Derrick got some teens out to our events a couple of times simply by placing ads in school newspapers. Even if an event is scheduled for the middle of summer when school is out, it can still be advertised a few weeks in advance in the last school newspaper of the year. I know there are many other avenues to get the word out, but this is one way to let teens know you are interested in them specifically. Or heck, maybe you'll at least get a couple of teachers who kick! peace, Ida Bettis Fogle, an old-timer who hardly kicks any more, but I did birth a couple of replacements for the sport. They just haven't grown into their roles yet! From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Jun 2 03:48:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA09813 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 03:48:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1306.mail.yahoo.com (web1306.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.156]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA03700 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:11:14 -0700 Received: (qmail 21028 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jun 2000 03:10:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20000602031044.21027.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.168.248.1] by web1306.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 01 Jun 2000 20:10:44 PDT Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:10:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Subject: Re: [footbag] What's happening to footbag??? To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hey hey > Leo Skagerberg wrote: > > > Just wanting to get my peice out, everyone grows > old, you just need some people to replace them. And, > from the top of my mind, schools seem to get very > good publicity if they're doing things right. --- Ida Bettis-Fogle wrote: > This is one reason why touring teams used to go to > schools a lot, I > think. Alex Zerbe and I finished a 6 month tour through the midwest last March. We got lots of positive feedback from the kids in Minnesota, Iowa, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, and Montana. It was cool to see some clubs go up on www.footbag.org after some of our shows. We gave 3-4 shows a day, 5 days a week. And at every show we made sure to mention www.footbag.org a few hundred times. Those kids were brain washed by the end of our assembly. The biggest influence we had was hanging out after school hours skooling in the gyms. Kids would come hang out and try learning stalls and stuff. Very cool to see a few of them catch the bug. We also had a bunch of Mestas bags we were selling to the kids to make sure they had decent bags when we left. Of course, if there was a girl getting into it, we usually stoked her on a free bag. It'll be cool if we ever run into some of the kids we met along the way. Brian McKenzie told me he learned about freestyle footbag through a school assembly. I wish I had seen a footbag assembly at such an impressionable age! Better later than never though, eh? Anyway...just rambling.... Creative Athletics and Infinity Toys still do tours. I think Russel Promotions does international promotions and I'm sure World Footbag Association is still booking shows. If any of you reading this are seriously interested in promoting the sport, contact these places about doing a tour(living out of a van/motel for several months at a time) and giving cheesy K-12 assemblies. It helps to have a few other skills too (juggling, diabolo, devil sticks, yo-yo, poi, snake board, ...) See ya, Jane From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Jun 2 16:52:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11735 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 16:52:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f From: Eric Dargent Received: from lh00.opsion.fr (lh00.opsion.fr [212.73.208.226]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA16462 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 02:34:20 -0700 Received: from 10.1.1.6 [10.1.1.6] by lh00.opsion.fr; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:34:10 GMT Send-By: 195.154.24.38 with Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 98; DigExt) To: Subject: Re: [footbag] What's happening to footbag??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:34:10 GMT Message-id: <200006020934.0a5b@lh00.opsion.fr> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id KAA10853 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi y'all Just a quick reaction to your 'footbag's dying'! Come to Europe! The footbag scene is raging! Skyrocketing! ok it's mainly freestyle, but still, there's some interest for net too. You all know the Finns, I guess. You gotta check out the German scene, with 13-year-olds busting butterflys, osis to osis with slippers (yes, not even sandals)and during a competition, the Czechs too, and we're doin a lot here in France as well. Footbag in Europe is healthy as can be, thank you! I have to say this has a lot to do with what we learned from the internet, that is footbag.org, that is Steve and those who helped him on that. Thanks very very much, guys! Eric Dargent Tournament Director, European Footbag Championships July 14-16, 2000 http://www.footbag.org/calendar/show/948198763 From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Jun 2 18:51:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA12463 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:51:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (root@diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01137 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:14:55 -0700 Received: from default (madmax-182.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.182]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA20181 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:14:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002201bfccbe$1a150160$b6c9d482@default> From: "Tu Vu" To: Subject: Re: [footbag] What's happening to footbag??? Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:12:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Eric Dargent wrote: >Hi y'all >Just a quick reaction to your 'footbag's dying'! >Come to Europe! The footbag scene is raging! >Skyrocketing! hey everyone, This is in response to eric's e-mail, and i must say I agree with him that footbag in europe is truly growing, I got to see a taste of it with my own eyes a few months back. The clubs in europe are in fact on the beginning of a learning curve that I have seen many clubs in america. In my mind, europe is the undiscovered world of footbag, its actually very exciting. I think the mentality in europe is also a lot different, for instance they usually don't offer prize money but rather they use that money for advertising, I think that is BRILLANT!!! I mean when you dish out $2,000 in prize money when you break it up between a billion events in a billion categories you barely make your money back, but if you were you to use it for advertising, more people will take notice to see what we are doing is more than a bunch of hippies at a dead concert, and from there maybe a *REAL* sponsor will actually take notice of us. that's what some of us bay area B.A.P. tried to do at last years X-games as we did some demos on stage for the audience trying to get our name out there, maybe on the slight chance that the people at x-games will like us. But I must say I also agree with steve "GOLDBERG" when he mentioned footbag is not dying but changing. Yes and maybe i'm being naive that I miss the good old days and i don't look to the future of our sport, but in the old days everyone played both net and freestyle and everyone knew each other and it was more like one big happy family among players (which was cool). As years grew on and both sports changed they really are having less to do with each other which is naturally evolution but it caused this werid separation which newbies these days really missed out on. With that said, because both sports did separate, they both grew at a monstrous pace. Steve also mentioned the brillant website www.footbag.org which is one of the landmarks for starting new players throughout the world and it did. But it did so more in freestyle than in net, I would really like to see more net emphasis on that page with maybe video clips of spikes or cool rallyies. maybe tips from the top players on how to play more effectively, unfortunately, as I have talked with many top net players about this, is that to really get good in net you need to have good players to play with to get to that top level, whereas freestyle you can be a 12 year freak with a lot of time and shred in mom's basement and be the man. Footbag has grown considerably and it contiunes to do so throughout the world, i think a lot of the euopeans would benefit be going to north america tournaments to see what the top level of play is like in america, because its nuts. I think skillwise our sport has grown enough, its finally time to hit big time. I think north americans would benefit from going to european tournaments to see the amazing potential our sport can obtain. 99' european championships had almost as many competitors as 99' I think in the end it comes down to a saying that hasn't been said at tournaments in a long time: "Most fun wins" why else would you play?? Tu From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Sun Jun 4 22:03:25 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA17800 for footbag-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 22:03:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f From: Scott Durfee Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.6]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26658 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 06:17:13 -0700 Received: from Durfduo@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v27.9.) id z.34.608a8d2 (4218) for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 09:16:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <34.608a8d2.266bb0b5@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 09:16:37 EDT Subject: [footbag] Footbag Net To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Greetings from a semi-retired net player and tourney director. Interesting discussion indeed about what's happening to the sport. Here's an idea on a way to rekindle interest in net - target soccer players. I was a devoted soccer player (and still am to a lesser degree) who was naturally attracted to another great foot sport. I tried all the footbag games including (cough) golf, but I think I enjoyed net the most due to the competitive nature of the game and the fast pace. Therefore, I think net is a pretty good fit for soccer players who like the organized, competitive aspect. With that said, folks need to set up a net near youth or adult soccer games and see what happens. I must admit I've never tried this myself. I know there have been demos done before at half time of pro or semi-pro games, but I think the key is to make the demo more accessible - open to anyone who wants to try. Sure there will be plenty of soccer players who are not interested, but I think plenty will give it a try. Once you try, it's easy to get hooked! I'll see if I can try this myself this year as I will be playing in a soccer league. Of course I do have the problem of finding another decent net player in Richmond, VA area to help me with the demo. Also, I'm hoping to make an appearance at a tourney or two this year. Hello to old friends and hope to see you soon! Scott Durfee Richmond, VA (We've moved back!) From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Sun Jun 4 22:37:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA17887 for footbag-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 22:37:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from smtp2.volny.cz (smtp2.volny.cz [212.20.96.11]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA32210 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 13:23:35 -0700 Received: from farkan (datela-1-2-76.vol.cz [212.20.97.78]) by smtp2.volny.cz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07788 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 22:22:54 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <200006032222530220.01314AD7@smtp.volny.cz> In-Reply-To: <20000602031044.21027.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20000602031044.21027.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.03.02 (3) Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 22:22:53 +0200 From: Vojta Polak To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] What's happening to footbag??? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id UAA15212 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Someone metioned Russel Promotion here. Right now there doing a massive promotion here in Czech republic. Footbags are sold in all bigger shops, supermakets and so...There are at least 10 small contests a day all around Prague and nearby cities... Every small kid is playing footbag now. About half a year ago it was an almost unknown sport. Only people interested in sk8s and snowboards were kicking. But without tricks. Only some basic stalls, and flying kicks, and no net at all. There were just few people(including me) who knew more about footbag, usually from internet. They have seen some videos and read about the tricks and other disciplines of footbag.(thank you) The canadians and americans( world footbag champions :))) ) who are doing the promotion here are showing some not so easy tricks and its mostly something completly new for us... I think the footbag has a bright future here in Europe (I hope it has.. :) ), and the Czech republic is not going to stay behind :)) (pls excuse any mistakes in my english) Moglum moglum@volny.cz From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Sun Jun 4 22:37:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA17892 for footbag-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 22:37:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f From: Ted Huff Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.4]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22100 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 07:41:33 -0700 Received: from Thehuff1@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v27.9.) id u.6d.4a365d6 (9613); Sat, 3 Jun 2000 10:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6d.4a365d6.266a72d8@aol.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 10:40:24 EDT Subject: Re: [footbag] What's happening to footbag??? To: kicking@ix.netcom.com CC: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 106 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I think it is time that the players , such as Steve Dusablon noted, decide to support an organization of themselves again !! When more players respected the efforts of the WFA, and before that the NHSA, they felt they were part of an organization that promoted them ( individual players ), and tournaments. I remember when it was "cool" to have a card in your wallet, and say you were a member of the NHSA or WFA !!! I was a part of a sports organization I was proud of !! I was more than what I really was, just a player, and I was more than just a local club member, I was, a member of the organization starting a new sport !! What was wrong with that? By supporting a stong central association, the local clubs or players didn't have to think they had to do it all themselves. As Steve said, not every player wants to be more than just that, and have fun. Nothing wrong with that. So, why not solicit the WFA to be more involved, even if it takes a "players dues fee" for that effort of organization?? Wouldn't that be better than trying to start another new organization, and not utilize all the contacts & goodwill already developed by Bruce & friends? This website is fantastic !! But if current players, such as Steve can't see where the organization of their sport is going, and tournaments are getting smaller, not bigger, then isn't that a sign of change required NOW ?? Besides a need for more player support via an organization promoting them better, there was , and should be still a need for the goodwill of community involvement, SUCH AS local clubs offering community education in footbag via evening classes, AND thereby giving themselves a gym to kick in !, and a reason for the local community to let them have tournaments in ! King or Queen of the night court !! Mixed team play with novice players, etc. Have a good time & grow your club !! And so what if you get involved with local retailers & go do a "kick in" at a store or mall in their support? Good players always like to show off to a crowd ! And it's a great way to interest new & other players to join in !! Chicks & Dudes dig it right ??!! Show those legs off !! And so what if you might need to wear a shirt that names a retailer, or your club, or a World organization, instead of naming your favorite band or beer or form of hallucination ?? Show that you are also part of an organization !! promote yourselves & your sport proudly. Not always definantly, like a graffiti artist? That's exactly how I think the general American public views hackers. Does it have to be so? The answer is NO. The question is, why would anyone support & sponsor players in this sport, IF they can't get organized enough to support themselves first? Care to get involved in what's yours?? I suggest that the players today solicit the WFA to take charge again, and that they realize that without their own support of that effort , including via dues to an organization, and still include their own efforts, it just is going to keep going negative. I think your glass is half full, not half empty !!! From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Mon Jun 5 01:40:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA18147 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:40:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f120.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.120]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA16547 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:02:17 -0700 Received: (qmail 70636 invoked by uid 0); 5 Jun 2000 01:01:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20000605010118.70635.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.172.147.108 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 04 Jun 2000 18:01:18 PDT X-Originating-IP: [206.172.147.108] From: "Yves Archambault" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] What's happening to footbag??? Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 18:01:18 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I think some of the people on this list see the sport only from one end, the american end. I was in Berlin last summer and it was fabulous to see the amount of energy involved over there. A whole new type of tournament too, from what I know, where the promotion included well known DJ's to attract people. The scene is definitely happening in Europe "right now". Footbag has some sort of negative image in the states and it's not really the case here in Canada and it's still kind of magic Overseas. It seems no one noticed the incredible boom of clubs in Finland (41 clubs) and the interest of their government in their sport (Subsidies for travel at World's for 10 of their players). The key to the triumphant return of Footbag in United States is a huge success in Europe and later on in South America and Asia. But it's certainly not dead because there are minor setbacks in the small, roughly organized tournaments that we know now. There was a lot of interesting points brought in this discussion already: promote in schools, promote to soccer players, promote through the internet all of that is fine and it does work to some extent. There's no point in culpabilizing the players for not doing what they are not trained for, Footbag is like anything else when the smell of money will be there someone will pick it up. In that matter it seems that Russell promotions should make themselves known to the Footbag community cause they seem to be getting some huge commercial successes in their their tours. I've heard rumors that they sold 200,000 footbags in connection with their 1999 Ireland tour, maybe that these folks are only interested in making rapid money (it seems that they are in Czekoslovakia now) and maybe, on the other hand that they have a real plan on the sports level too. Any way the non competitive aspect of the sport is doing very well as Guatemala alone is shipping over 1 million of Footbags all around the world every year with no sign of slowing down. This means thousands of talents with an introduction to Footbag that might be interested eventually by the radical net or freestyle competition styles. Also it is perfectly normal that freestyle is booming more at this stage of the sport growth. One can play alone, you just need a soft bag, you can learn with videos whereas if you don't receive lots of serves you'll never be able to master the net game. The next step for net is simple: The equipment has to be available in any store. If you think it's impossible it's better to forget about it. Every year there's a minimum of ten persons that ask me where they can buy a net set. As there not available in stores I tell them that they can either buid one themselves or order through Footmart. Which is a pretty complicated process for anyone used to go to a sport store and get whatever they need. I think that the day where anyone will be able to buy an affordable net set, including a net bag and an instructional video or CD rom, half the job will be done. Yes it's true that Footbag net is harder than other things to learn, but I also remember that I always enjoyed it since the first time I played and I'm not so special, there's a lot of folks out there looking for a challenge. I just want to say also that I disagree with TU about the prize money at tournaments issue: Unfortunately our society is built around the idea of money and instead of giving up on the prize money issue we should relentlessly try to make them bigger. Also I can't believe that we are so poorly connected as a group. Everything in the making of big events is related on who you know. We must know someone who has a lot of cash and likes this sport enough to give it a try at the big leagues by now. Please think of who it can be. About the organization issue I disagree with Ted about the idea of not creating a new body at the international level. The WFA has a specific mandate on selling products and organizing tours, creating connections and what they do they do it very well and are finally getting rewarded for their long term efforts, but a true sports Federation cannot be a profit organization. Sports associations and Federations are by nature non-profit organizations. That's the worst part about the claims Footbag have to make to any political institution in the World right now, we are not grouped in real sports Associations or federations. The concept of clubs is cool but it has huge limitations when it is time to talk to bodies like the Olympic committee for instance. If there is 20 clubs in California they should be headed by a State association and eventually federation. For example the quebec Footbag Association is a non-profit organization runned by people giving their time but personnally I do sell footbag products under my own name and these things are totally separated. I know that this is a bit confused but it's the result of all the reflexion induced in me by all these years of Footbag. Thanks to Tu for starting all this, I think it was much needed. I personnaly see a bright future for Footbag but we still have to be patient. Love to you all Yevez Nuts'n'Bolts European net singles champion (I'll be in Paris in July) From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Mon Jun 5 02:05:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA18200 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 02:05:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA18197 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 02:05:54 -0700 Received: from fep1.excitehome.net (fep1.excitehome.net [24.0.26.112]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17652 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:35:12 -0700 Received: from [24.16.24.8] by fep1.excitehome.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000605013439.PNXW1079.fep1.excitehome.net@[24.16.24.8]> for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:34:39 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000605010118.70635.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <20000605010118.70635.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:35:17 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] What's happening to footbag??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 6:01 PM -0700 6/4/00, Yves Archambault wrote: >Yes it's true that Footbag net is harder than other things to learn, >but I also remember that I always enjoyed it since the first time I >played and I'm not so special, there's a lot of folks out there >looking for a challenge. Everything Yves wrote was dead on -- it's truly inspirational to me that people a continent apart, with different experiences and backgrounds, such as myself and Yves, can be so in synch on the big picture issues around the sport. Thanks, Yves, for writing your message. (I invite everyone to re-read his message and try to let it sink in.) >About the organization issue I disagree with Ted about the idea of >not creating a new body at the international level .... [snip] .... >That's the worst part about the claims Footbag have to make to any >political institution in the World right now, we are not grouped in >real sports Associations or federations. On these points we agree (Yves and I), but let me make something clear to Yves and whoever else thinks we're not moving in this direction: Over the last 5 years, we've begun to move toward a truly organized global sport: - The IFAB was renamed IFC, specifically to help with this from a political standpoint. The term "committee" is understand internationally, and the "International Footbag Committee" is what we are labelling the International Governing Body for the sport of footbag; this is fundamental basis of a framework that will allow a hierarchical federation system to grow, and we are working to articulate this (I still need to write that detailed message about what it all means). - One of IFC's new missions is to foster the growth of "National Governing Bodies" in each country where footbag is played around the world, and to create a membership organization that is composed of such bodies that are sanctioned within individual countries. IFC committee membership, once these NGB's are formed, will be augmented by representative membership from each NGB; but this is not in place yet because there are no official NGB's registered yet... - Several countries are in the process of creating NGB's -- all we lack to get to this point is a sanctioning process and representation on IFC to make sure these countries get "over the hump" before a formal sanctioning process is instituted; to that end, we have a representative from the Finnish Footbag Association, which is vying for NGB status in Finland, from the USA Footbag Federation, which is not yet real but which will eventually be the NGB within the US if we can formalize it, and of course one of the co-chairs last year was a representative from Canada, where we are still hoping you can work together to form a single NGB for all provinces together, even if informal. (Unfortunately, there is no representation from Quebec on the IFC...) Other countries we hope to see NGB's created in over the next year or two are France, Germany, Switzerland, The Netherlands, and Denmark -- all of which have strong existing organizations they are loosely labelling as "federations". So, we're moving in the right direction, anyway. (Yves' vision is exactly right, though I personally don't see that we have as much need for local federations as for national and international. So, as long as we can institute some organization within each country that has representation on the IFC, we will be making serious headway towards the Big Vision. >If there is 20 clubs in California they should be headed by a State >association and eventually federation. My feeling is that "clubs" should never be confused with "federations". I'm working on a new "federation" system on footbag.org so we can formally track the federation contacts, which are truly separate in most cases from clubs (though there is overlap). It's been a point of frustration for a few federations that existing out there already that they don't want to be listed on the club list as a club, and the same individuals want both a club list and a federation listing as separate entities, and my system does not yet support them. So, that's coming soon... Clubs are informal bodies that meet regularly to promote and play at a grass-roots level. But members of federations (if there is to be hierarchy) are probably better thought of as individuals or local committees that want to spend time and energy promoting and organizing at a slightly different level. When a club wants to throw an event (like a local festival), more power to them. But when an individual or local committee wants to organize an official event that will earn seeding points for players who want to attend the tournament, who want to know exactly which rules will be used, and who want to have their seeding points apply to other official tournaments, the organizers need to get sanctioning from the IFC, indirectly, through their local players' association, which itself should be sanctioned. (Yes, I know this is rambling and run-on. Sorry. :-)) >For example the quebec Footbag Association is a non-profit organization Exactly. The WWFF, Inc., is trying to do what it can, as well, to help with this NGB-structure described above. We are still considering morphing it into USA Footbag, or possibly just keeping it as a separate organization to foster the development of this organization. The WWFF is a non-profit organization as well, currently seeking (but not having) 501c(3) US Federal tax-exempt status. If we get it, we'll be a funnel for donations that are charitable (therefore more appealing) and we will begin fund-raising to cover costs of some of these things. Of course, as Bruce can tell you, administrating this type of thing is not trivial. In fact, it's a huge burden, and unless we have volunteers who are willing to help, the best-laid plans will fall apart. So, all I can say now is that we're in "pipe dream" mode. :-) But still, without dreams and plans that get us closer to the dream, we will never get anywhere. >I personnaly see a bright future for Footbag but we still have to be patient. I agree. But I'd underscore "patient" and probably add, "very, very, very" before it. :-) Thanks again, Yves -- great words. Steve From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Mon Jun 5 06:04:42 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA19270 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 06:04:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from web2301.mail.yahoo.com (web2301.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.52]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA24025 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 21:59:34 -0700 Message-ID: <20000605045906.701.qmail@web2301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [154.5.105.86] by web2301.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 04 Jun 2000 21:59:06 PDT Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 21:59:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Lavigne Subject: [footbag] net video To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi all This is just a reminder to those of you who have not yet seen the net videos available at Footbag Quebec. Check them out @: http://quebec.footbag.org/multimedia/filet.html enjoy Bob (Thanks to Eric Cote for making these available, and we shall make more...) From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Mon Jun 5 17:12:32 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20870 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 17:12:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: (qmail 16007 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2000 15:49:10 -0000 Received: from lax-ts6-h1-54-188.ispmodems.net (HELO fpgcswgi) ([209.162.54.188]) (envelope-sender ) by mail018.mail.onemain.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 5 Jun 2000 15:49:10 -0000 Reply-To: From: "Scott Cleere" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] What's happening to footbag??? Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 08:54:57 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200006021950.MAA11102@list.footbag.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Deja vu.... we been here before. This has been one of the perennial conversations for two generations of footbag and I have been around to hear a lot of them. My first competition was the Colorado State Championships in 1981. From then I went on to compete in Regional, State, European and World events for a couple of decades. Well, almost. I've directed tournaments and festivals and I have taught literally thousands of people about footbag. I still kick, still teach, and my business, Creative Athletics, is devoted to bringing the magic of play to people everywhere. I read the recent posts with interest. It feels like I've been here before. Are we going to go the way of the dinosaur? It's hard to say, but I don't think so. Expand, contract... the cycle of life. The internet certainly allows a feeling of global growth and expansion (and this discussion!). Take credit for that part Steve. Footbag.org rocks!! You done good!! Important to bear in mind that a good chunk of that information rests on efforts of countless people over the past twenty years or so....NHSA (That's the National Hacky Sack Association for you nubiles), WFA, IFAB....clubs, festivals, Kenncorp, Wham-O, Sipa, Flying Clipper... too numerous to mention all... Believe it or not we had over 200 competitors at Worlds in I believe it was 1987 or so. Ask Bruce. He's seen it all. Guilt, I shoulda coulda done more... nah. It isn't going to inspire me to hold more events or be more passionate in my delivery of the information about the sport. I'm reminded of Jack Nicholson in the flick As Good As It Gets... he rushes through the waiting room of his psychologist, a handful of people sitting there waiting for their therapy, and he says to them, "What if this is as good as it gets?" It's a question we as a community may want to consider. What if we are at the top? What is the top? What does it (the top) look like? Beach volleyball, tennis, figure skating, skateboarding? What if this is as good as it gets? Ain't gonna take the smile off my face or the pride in my heart, not no how. I know I was drawn to footbag initially because of the "alternative" it represented to me. Not as intensely competitive as tennis, not as formal as dance classes, footbag allowed me to carve new terrain dude, check me out. Blazing new trails for others to benefit from and more importantly, for me to express my athletic ability and passion for play. The newspapers wanted to know, evening news, sponsors, back off man, gimme room, I'm goin' places. It's not any different than the rush that new players are experiencing now, what a demo at the X-games feels like, winning tournaments or traveling around the world on footbag. The lucky/really talented ones are diggin' it, playing 24-7. The ones close to them are saying, "That's so cool. If I stick with it, that could be me." There's room in this sport. Room to grow. Room for everyone who has the desire to excel. Tu's comment about tournament participation hits home because that is something the players can see, feel and touch. Fewer events may be happening and fewer people attending right now. This is more tangible for us than the long term question of, "How does the sport get to the next level?" Think about this for a minute. O.k., raise your hand if you ever dissed the tournament director for how the event was going but didn't do jack to help out... me too. If you took a moment to notice who the sponsors of the event were and made a point of spending some money with them... me neither (as a sponsor of footbag events this hits home for me). But hey, I did buy beer at the host restaurant, burp. If you were asked to volunteer to do some of the leg work for the club but didn't have the time. If you talked to a member of the tournament staff in the dark on Sunday evening and found them uplifted from giving heart, soul and $ to make the event possible. Get my drift? My point is not to get a big stick and clobber ourselves for what isn't, but to acknowledge the blood, sweat and tears that make events possible, from regular jam sessions to full blown tournaments and everything in-between. We need to make the load lighter when we go to events by putting up nets, taking down nets, banners, tables, canopies, saying thank you, saying please, being on time. Being a light not a critic. I'm as guilty as the next guy for wanting things to be different or better and not making the effort to make it happen. As a community we have grown, as Steve said "change is good." A conscious effort is needed to make the "change good." We need to support and nurture those who continue to volunteer time, effort and money to make it possible for others to play. If we all do a little we can all do a lot. Now, I'm gonna step off my soap box. The top caved in from the weight of my self-importance. I guess the last thing I will say as I peel the box off my feet is that this sport has provided me an avenue to be successful in ways that I would never have imagined. I haven't found what footbag has given me and continues to give me anywhere else. Wow, I can see part of the top from here, and it's beautiful. Scott Cleere From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Mon Jun 5 18:29:37 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21147 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 18:29:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13839 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 10:29:25 -0700 Received: from mycomputer (1Cust188.tnt1.dekalb.il.da.uu.net [63.27.222.188]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA14477 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 10:28:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002201bfcf13$e4971ca0$bcde1b3f@mycomputer> Reply-To: "Hacky & the Mrs." From: "Juli Smith" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] What's happening to footbag??? Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:31:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id SAB21147 Hello All! It is good to finally see some discussion on the listserve again! Speaking strictly on my own behalf - there have been alot of good ideas shared in this discussion, and I have one more that will get laughed at, and probably immediately dismissed but hopefully closed-mindedness won't set in here. Another way I have seen interest be sparked for footbag is through FOOTBAG GOLF. Through the years, when Steve has played net or practicied freestyle around our community, some people would stop for a moment to watch, some might have even asked a question or two - then the people move on usually without looking back. But when he has been playing footbag golf in our little town or just practicing putts at the Rec Centers of local colleges, people have stopped and asked to give it a try. I think because this is because footbag golf is not as daunting as net and freestyle for someone who is new to the sport. Children especially are drawn to footbag golf, because they can all do it right from the start. Even in demos to junior highs and highschools that Steve has helped Andy Linder with, the kids are willing to try footbag golf first, then sometimes they are willing to try freestyle stalls. So, I know how lowly footbag olf is looked upon among the footbag world, which is really sad if you ask me because it is a more social aspect of the sport - which I believe Tu may have mentioned as being one of the things that has steadily declined , i.e. the social aspect of footbag, as specializations have developed. My last question for pondering, is with all of these good ideas being brought forth, who among us is willing to do the work necessary, and make that commitment? This is usually the biggest issue for any organization - everyone has good ideas, but no one wants to actually commit to doing the work, and it rests on the shoulders of a few. Keep up the dreaming and envisioning, but also remember to include a personal commitment to act on those dreams and visions, without leaving all the work to a few people. We all love the sport, even us spectators of spouses and significant others. Thanks for listening, and I am doing a small part in the prolonging of the sport - as our first baby is due in August (right about the time Worlds is going on!) Juli Smith (Mrs. Hacky) From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Mon Jun 12 05:53:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA24695 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 05:53:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Message-ID: <000201bfd3e9$543d2fc0$ae13c2cf@jimmy.d> From: "Jim Derricott" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Call for net sets for Vancouver Worlds 2000 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:02:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id FAB24695 Hi everybody, I am the Net and Equipment Director for Worlds 2000 in Vancouver. I'm making a call for net sets (no lines needed) for the net events at Worlds. We need as many as we can get, so please let me know if you can pitch in. There are three methods to get your net to Vancouver: 1. Bring it yourself and turn it over to me at registration. 2. Bring it to the U.S. Open and give it to Tricia George for transport up to Vancouver 3. Give it to someone in your area to bring up, if you are not attending but would like to help us out. We will return nets at the event once we are done with them (they will be available for pick-up for sure on the finals days, but also earlier as they become available). If you are not attending, please let me know so we can arrange alternative means of returning it. Please reply to me directly (do not cc the list) as I am compiling the list of nets that we expect to show up in Vancouver. Please also securely attach some form of ownership identification on the net and its carrying case so we can make sure you get it back with minimal confusion. (We recommend masking tape stuck to the bag and around the poles with your name in black El Marko magic marker. :-)) Don't put off replying else I will just send this message again in a few weeks. If you can get your net to me one of the three ways above, go ahead and reply now so I have your name. (You can still back out if you need to later; I will confirm once I know where we stand.) Thanks for all your help in making Worlds 2K happen. Much appreciation. Jim D. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Sat Jun 24 21:06:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18049 for footbag-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 21:06:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f From: Ted Huff Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18935; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:54:58 -0700 Received: from Thehuff1@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v27.10.) id z.77.5dd42da (3702); Sat, 24 Jun 2000 15:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <77.5dd42da.26866bfc@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 15:54:36 EDT Subject: [footbag] Wanted: photos for Hall of Fame induction dinner To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 110 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Anyone who would like to contribute quality FOOTBAG tournament photos of the new inductees for 2000: Jim Caveney, Scott Cleere, Tricia George, and David Robinson for a PowerPoint presentation, can send ASAP (copies only please!) to: Footbag Hall of Fame Historical Society c/o P.O. Box 1065 Camas, Washington U.S.A. OR as a reply (only) to this announcement via email reply attachment (for PC only, not mac format) to: the huff1@aol.com Also, any copies of photos of any other Hall of Fame member, that you feel is significant to them and their career in this sport. Also, we will have a photo review of players in this sport from beginning to current at this celebration, so we encourage you to honor all significant players & promoters of your sport by sending in their photos too !! Please identify who is in each photo, where the photo was taken, who the photographer was with each photograph. Any photo used will show a credit to you during the presentation. Thank you in advance! Ted Huff, Co-Director, Footbag Hall of Fame Historical Society From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Jun 29 05:01:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03295 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 05:01:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from zeus.ihermes.com (zeus.ihermes.com [206.180.207.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18870 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:06:10 -0700 Received: from 206.180.204.211 (204-211.ihermes.com [206.180.204.211]) by zeus.ihermes.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id e5T366O15830; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:06:06 -0700 Message-ID: <395A5BB6.13EF@intouch.bc.ca> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:10:36 +0000 From: Juliet Pendray X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org CC: Jim Cobb Subject: [footbag] Emerald City Open June 24th and 25th References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Thank you Jim Cobb and all the Seattle folks for running a great tournament! Oooodles of fun, great matches both playing and watching. Very relaxed - a wicked excellent time! Thank you Simon and Heather for the groovy grub, the gourmet dessert and for the hottub that saved my life! Big respectful guy-punch in your shoulder Jim for doing the most excellent on-call volleyball mediations! And thanks to all the folks who really wanted to sit down in the shade, but who played pick-up with/against me anyways. Long Live The Emerald City Open!!! Hugs all round, Scrappy From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Jun 29 05:01:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03305 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 05:01:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from web2003.mail.yahoo.com (web2003.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.203]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA16418 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:25:44 -0700 Received: (qmail 6789 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Jun 2000 23:25:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20000626232543.6788.qmail@web2003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [132.233.247.16] by web2003.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:25:43 PDT Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:25:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Durrett Subject: [footbag] Nets for 2000 Worlds To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hey Listers, As a favor to the 2000 Worlds tournament directors (specifically Jimmy Derricot) I am the official net tally person. If you *are* bringing a net, please email me at gdurrett@yahoo.com indicating this fact, and note how many you are bringing. Thanks much, Greg Durrett From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Jun 29 05:01:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03300 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 05:01:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f From: PT Lovern Received: from imo-r11.mx.aol.com (imo-r11.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.65]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10282 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:29:25 -0700 Received: from PTLOVERN@aol.com by imo-r11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v27.10.) id z.9f.75d6ab6 (2615) for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 18:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9f.75d6ab6.268bd61a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 18:28:42 EDT Subject: [footbag] The history of Sepak Takraw could help the future of Footbag Net To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 110 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hello to everybody, It is rare that I would get on this soap box, but the recent "what is happening to footbag" discussion has made me think about a couple things that could use work in footbag net. Specifically things that Takraw went through when it was growing up also. And for all those old school people out there change is a good thing. 1. Standardized Ball (or Bag) Any Professional sport has a standard ball. This is the major weakness of footbag net. No real ball, no real sport. Takraw solved this problem when they invented the plastic one in the early eighties. Problem solved. Pre-game debates about footbags, that range in size and touch are for pickup game in a park somewhere not in a tournament of a professional sport. This is a serious concern. The size and touch are yet to be debated. Personally making the bag bigger is a great idea, it is better visually for players and spectators. But when you make a bag bigger it becomes a ball. Oh no not the word, BALL, not a bag. For many of the current players and retirees this may be hard to stomach. But it is in the future. This will help push the limits of this very hard sport. The difficulty level is extreme in footbag net, you wonder why there aren't more players. The patience involved learning the game, a rally is hard to come by in a game of all beginners. I have been there. Maybe with a friendlier ball more players would attempt the sport. Less people would definitely squint when watching. 2. Plane crossing. I have to admit if you told me four years ago, I would say this publicly I would have probably laughed in your face. Crossing the plane is dangerous. If the level of this sport is to be raised this rule must go. I admit hitting the occasional toe into side of somebody else's head is always good for motivation. But is dangerous. Old tales tell of how Takraw used to allow this same thing. Until numerous players specifically one (the best) was injured. I want everyone to imagine Manu going for a full role spike to meet the sole of a fully extended leg of almost anyone. The legend tell that the player could never play again. I can believe it. When you create that much power with your body, injury is inevitable. But, we need to protect each other. The hardest crushes are still made on the legal side. A full roll spike doesn't need or rarely does cross the plane. The same is for almost any shot. Show me another professional sport that allows you to cross. Drunken volleyball is the closest one I know of. 3. The court Indoor is the way eventually to go for major tournaments. No outside factors to deal with. And the consistency of the ground will never be a dilemma. Professional looking 4. Uniforms. Oh this one is probably my favorite. You want to be a professional well looks are half the battle. We need to mandate uniforms at regional tournaments and of course worlds. Whether we look like soccer players or tennis the current footbag look is not very professional. I understand not everybody has seen the light on this one but truthfully you want to be big you need to look good. Spectators need color, matching helps them recall an event. I am not sure when this one happened to Takraw but it did. 5. Footbag Net is hard I play both now regularly and I can tell you this. Footbag net is harder to learn, the rules and the bag a very unforgiving to new players. In response to A comment from Martin, yes new players have a whole bunch more fun playing Takraw. They can use their head and they can use all three kicks. I held 1st Annual San Lorenzo Takraw Tournament three weeks ago. We ran a singles tourney. I must say the matches were much more interesting then intermediate footbag net. I can verify this. Footbag Net could and might as well be considered a master version of Takraw. Takraw's level of play is head and shoulders above us but they also have fifty years of development on us too. In Takraw you have a specific role (server, setter, spiker), in footbag you do it all. Not only do you do it all but you do it all with a ball that has no bounce, and is a little bigger than a golf ball. Not very developmentally appropriate for young individuals. It makes beginner games more exciting, a master could play with to beginners and have a good chance to make it an exciting match. the master is not forced to always kick it to the beginner every play. I have witnessed this. It is effective. Less pressure involved. We need to address these concerns soon, or we will make no progress. More people need to start punishing the bag, order a Takraw video quick. Paul (PT) Lovern From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Jun 29 05:03:18 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03317 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 05:03:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from web2006.mail.yahoo.com (web2006.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.206]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA16517 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:28:32 -0700 Received: (qmail 18147 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Jun 2000 23:28:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20000626232831.18146.qmail@web2006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [132.233.247.16] by web2006.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:28:31 PDT Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:28:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Durrett Subject: [footbag] Western Regionals Photos now online To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Greetings, I have a small number of photos from Western Regionals up on my photo sharing website. Go to this URL: http://members2.clubphoto.com/greg203506/D1_Footbag_Westerns2000_D1_-_Footbag_Westerns_2000/ This URL will be in effect until the photos can be placed in their proper home at footbag.org. Let me know if you'd like a high-resolution version of any photo - these have all been compressed for web viewing. Greg Durrett From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Jun 29 17:07:27 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05505 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:07:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from sprynet.com (user-33qtoq3.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.227.67]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13609 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <395B6A7C.29C4EAA6@sprynet.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:25:48 -0600 From: David Leberknight Reply-To: footbag@softwarefederation.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@list.footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Re: The history of Sepak Takraw could help the future of Footbag Net References: <200006291950.MAA04513@list.footbag.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi all !!! Here's my $0.02 cents... I was at Allan Petersen's birthday party last weekend in Denver, and at one point, I sat down to watch a little net on TV. The thing that really struck me, more than anything else by far, was how hard it was to see the ball (ehem... bag)! So I too got to thinking about Sepak Takraw and how much easier it is to follow a game on TV. And it all boiled down to the size of the ball (ehem... bag). Bigger ball (bag) means better visibility means more spectators means more TV means more money and, uh, like that. I have played with some oversized net bags before and personally, I think they work just fine. One more inch of diameter can make a lot of difference in visibility and also make play a tad easier, leading to longer rallies, and more enthusiastic novices, leading to more spectators, etc... Why not experiment a little with some larger bags? -Dave Leberknight From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Jun 29 19:30:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06188 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:30:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from press.ripcity.com (press.ripcity.com [199.2.204.9]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15572 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:36:50 -0700 Received: by press.ripcity.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:36:50 -0700 Message-ID: <5A255F90CA1AD211BA1400104B93712E027717C2@post.ripcity.com> From: Steve Dusablon To: "'footbag@footbag.org'" Subject: [footbag] 2 and a half cents Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:36:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org OK, time for me to chime in on all this. A few thoughts on the change of bag. First off, there are very definite and specific rules concerning bag size and bag weight. All of the bags used in competition should be within these rules and usually are to my knowledge. Now the wear of of the bag, or its softness are usually the subject of some pre-game discussion but, in truth, this is not uncommon in other pro sports. Each NBA team has its own home court ball, each football in the NFL varies slightly in air pressure (check the difference on the ones used for passing and the ones used for kicking), each individual golf ball is wrapped to various tensions such as the ones used for driving and the ones used for putting. These things are all players choice and the differences in ball wear are slight but absolutely essential to the respective games. As far as visibility, has no one here watched golf on tv? That ball is quite a bit smaller than our bag and travels far greater distances yet somehow the cameras have no trouble following it. I think visibility issues can be solved by simple color changes alone. Our beloved bag is only marginally smaller than a tennis ball yet no one watching tennis on tv has a problem seeing the neon yellow/green colored ball even at the high speeds generated by a tennis serve. How about hockey? They have had visibility issues that have become a large problem with their sport as far as tv viewing. They added some special effects to the puck for a while but now it is the same old small, black, rubber puck as it has been for 75 years and the stanley cup is televised nationally in the states. People still watch. Difficulty is what sports are all about folks. YES! It is very hard to play footbag net, VERY hard. I have been doing it for almost 10 years and I still can't do it right. All sports are hard to learn, that is the point. Anyone remember the first free throw they ever tried, or the first time you tried to dribble with your left hand, how about that 100 yard pitch from the fairway onto a large green that you missed by 30 yards, what about the first time you tried to hit a curve ball. Sports are hard, get over it. You have to have the same drive to learn a 3 point basketball shot as you need to hit your first sweep. We all have put in the hours that it takes to get good at our game same as anyone who is good at throwing a football through a tire at 20 yards. It is a skill that is learned and you must have the inner drive to learn it or you will get nowhere. Obviously the plane foul debate has been going on for years in our sport. Personally, I feel that the rule is fine the way it is. You are penalized for making contact with any player on the other side of the net, either a side out or a point. OK, these days there are a lot more high flying spike moves and a lot more torque being put on players bodies to create more heat. In my humble opinion, the spikes themselves are inherently dangerous. There have been plenty of injuries over the last couple of years and I don't remember any of them being the result of contact fouls. It is possible that I missed a couple but I think I would have at least heard of them. I can't see how anyone who has ever seen a block, 7 ft high and 1 ft on the other side of the net, could ever want to take this out of the game. What are you thinking? I admit that most of these type of block attempts result in fouls or are just plain misses but a successful block like that is truly something to be cherished if you perform it or just witness it. Crossing the plane sets our sport apart from other, less extreme sports and I feel the game would suffer without it. As far as the uniforms go, I have to agree. I think it would look great to have teams and clubs all have their own uniform and it would give us a far more respectable look. I am of the opinion that we have quite an awesome product to present to potential viewers as it stands, and our problem as far as popularity stems from the fact that we have no one promoting the sport full time. I think if we managed to get one single Nike commercial (I say Nike simply as an example), our sport would explode. Just that much exposure would grab all those folks who kick in circles all around the country and the world, and show them that there is a next level to the game. I think that there are an incredible amount of pro players out there who just don't know what they have yet. Once again I would like to suggest that we as a community hire someone to get us that exposure. In conclusion, this sport rocks just the way it is, leave it alone. If you want exposure for the game, go and get it, don't sell out by changing the sport itself. Thanx for your ear, Steve