From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 11 18:34:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA03712 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:34:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13847 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:43:40 -0700 Received: from pacbell.net ([64.160.24.165]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G2A0018SKH65E@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for footbag@footbag.org; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:45:45 -0700 From: Chris Pinkus Subject: [footbag] Sand Footbag seepage To: footbag@footbag.org Reply-to: blitzkrieger@footbag.org Message-id: <39E509B8.255E38F6@pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hey Footbagger, I have the "Dirty Juice", and it's only a month old, yet I've had to refill it COMPLETELY over 4 times at least. Its hard, frustrating, and its destroying my footbag. I was hoping some of you know good ways to refill them, or perhaps getting a sand footbag with fewer panels like the Sandblaster. Thanks, Chris Pinkus From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 11 20:26:18 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA03934 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:26:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f From: Brian Parsons Received: from imo-r12.mail.aol.com (imo-r12.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.66]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18531 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:21:45 -0700 Received: from TrollJr22@aol.com by imo-r12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.26.) id z.b8.c592de3 (8392) for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:20:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:20:42 EDT Subject: [footbag] Re: Sand footbag seepage To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 120 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org What's up? I use seadbeads in my dirty juice. I know a lot of other people use them too, and there have been posts to this list about sand seepage and seadbeads. You can go to a store like Walmart and go to the crafts section and they should be there for like $1.50 per tube. (about one tube fills a bag) Then you get a smaller straw and cut the end so it is pointy. Work it in through a seem very gently so you do not rip the thread. Then drain all the sand and put the sead beads in the bag through the straw. If the straw is not big enough just put them through the spot, a few at a time, where you put the straw in. After it is filled just roll the bag around in your hands and the seems will come together again. I hope this helps, if you have any questions let me know. Later, Brian Parsons From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 12 20:38:08 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06760 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:38:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f204.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.204]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29151 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 06:41:21 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 06:40:39 -0700 Received: from 128.206.120.240 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:40:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Re: Sand footbag seepage Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:40:39 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Oct 2000 13:40:39.0503 (UTC) FILETIME=[022FE5F0:01C03452] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org >Then you get a smaller straw and cut the end so it is pointy. Work it >in through a seem very gently so you do not rip the thread. Hey guys, I was told once, heresay (James Roberts maybe?), that some people who style with sandbags get glass blowers to pull a hollow tube into a funnel. This make it easier to put fine grains of sand into a bag, while keeping it undamaged for a longer period of time. I know a glass blower, but I don't know what he would charge for such a thing. Though, I know he could do it relatively easily; maybe I will check it out and repost. Later Ian D. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 12 20:41:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06781 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:41:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from LLIC.Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06778 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:41:45 -0700 Received: from fep1.excitehome.net (fep1.excitehome.net [24.0.26.112]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20027 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:40:58 -0700 Received: from [24.16.29.242] by fep1.excitehome.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20001013034041.PADY27764.fep1.excitehome.net@[24.16.29.242]> for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:40:41 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:38:06 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [footbag] The death of a sport Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Okay, I take it back. Footbag *is* dying. Oh well, at least we have a few players left so let's have fun while it lasts. Steve From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 12 22:17:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06887 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:17:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (ha1.rdc2.tx.home.com [24.14.77.20]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22027 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:13:33 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.21.169.241]) by mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20001012052257.CVSW29243.mail.rdc2.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:22:57 -0700 Message-ID: <39E54C0C.15929F62@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:28:44 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Sand Footbag seepage References: <39E509B8.255E38F6@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Chris Pinkus wrote: > > I have the "Dirty Juice", and it's only a month old, yet I've had to > refill it COMPLETELY over 4 times at least. Welcome to the hell of a hand-sewn sand filled bag. Despite the fact that Flying Clipper puts a whopping 7 stitches per seam on the dirty juice, sand will leak out. The bag just isn't any good once it gets broken in. I would rather spend my time kicking than filling and refilling a bag. Don't get me wrong... the dirty juice was my bag of choice for a while. I just don't like the price or the amount of maintainance required. My advice - get a 4 panel bag from Revolution Footbags. I've never had a grain of sand leak out of one of these bags. I haven't ever used the 8-panel design, but I figure it is just as good. I'm waiting on my 24-panel to come in the mail sometime next week. Yippee. When you stop and think about the six 4-panel bags you can buy for the price of one dirty juice, it puts things in perspective. Try it. It is worth the $6. -Derric From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 14 13:01:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10513 for footbag-outgoing; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:01:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail1.rdc3.on.home.com (mail1.rdc3.on.home.com [24.2.9.40]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02789 for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:32:56 -0700 Received: from CR698121-A ([24.43.134.186]) by mail1.rdc3.on.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20001014193238.CUPL29825.mail1.rdc3.on.home.com@CR698121-A> for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:32:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20001013223011.008fb810@log.on.ca> X-Sender: angelab@log.on.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:30:11 -0400 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Angela Barsotti Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org What makes you say that? Angela B. At 08:38 PM 10/12/00 -0700, Steve Goldberg wrote: >Okay, I take it back. > >Footbag *is* dying. > >Oh well, at least we have a few players left so let's have fun while it lasts. > > Steve > From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 17 00:28:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA16665 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:28:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from LLIC.Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16662 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:28:38 -0700 Received: from fep2.excitehome.net (fep2.excitehome.net [24.0.26.113]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24755 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:27:38 -0700 Received: from [24.16.29.242] by fep2.excitehome.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20001017072720.CDCX14877.fep2.excitehome.net@[24.16.29.242]> for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:27:20 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20001013223011.008fb810@log.on.ca> References: <3.0.6.32.20001013223011.008fb810@log.on.ca> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:27:17 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 10:30 PM -0400 10/13/00, Angela Barsotti wrote: >What makes you say that? Why, I'm glad you asked. :-) Well, okay, so maybe I'm exaggerating a little. But this was in response to Tu's post a long time ago after this year's Western Regionals. He questioned the state of the competitive side of the sport given the low turn-out at Western Regionals (which is traditionally the second largest tournament in the world, and therefore a reasonable barometer of the health of the competitive side of the sport). At the time, I said I thought the turn-out at Western Regionals was actually pretty good, and was that the health of the sport was very good. Then -- well, then reality hit me. We had a festival here weekend before last, and, man, can you say "slim pickins"? Used to be that footbag was so hard to find that as soon as anyone announced a festival or tournament, folks would pile into a van or drop everything and go to an event. But, for all sorts of reasons, it seems like the older crowd is dropping off while the younger crowd is steering more towards just skoolin' with their friends (both net and freestyle) and neither group is particularly excited to go to a tournament, especially not a pro/am festival. We've become so complacent that we're actually letting the whole thing everyone's worked so hard to build just fall apart from apathy. So, I guess I'm saying "wake up"! As far as net's concerned, in my not-so-humble opinion, unless some of you great net players start giving a proverbial rat's ass and start teaching new players (Montreal excluded), this sport is doomed. There are a lot of people who are still teaching, but the number of net players who really care about promoting the net game has diminished substantially in the last few years. Proof positive comes in the last three years of festivals here in the Bay Area. We run a pro/am net competition which gives new players time on the court with pro players. We also have one of the biggest net clubs in the world. But, for the last three years, half (literally half!) of our pro net players have simply chosen to stay home on the day of our festival rather than have to play with new players. That definitely bodes well for the future, wouldn't you say? Steve From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 17 10:08:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17660 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:08:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (mail@relais.videotron.ca [24.201.245.36]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04284 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:55:35 -0700 Received: from [24.200.44.34] ([24.200.44.34]) by VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id G2L30203.TDR for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:55:14 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:55:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport From: Martin Cote To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I totally agree with Steve's conclusions. The sport is dying but i didn't think that freestyle was concerned. > As far as net's concerned, in my not-so-humble opinion, unless some > of you great net players start giving a proverbial rat's ass and > start teaching new players (Montreal excluded), this sport is doomed. Well Montreal should not be excluded. The pros can be pretty bad with intermediate-novice too. I remember 4 or 5 years ago, we had a whole bunch of new players that arrided at the same time. We decided to split the pros on one side and the intermediates and novices on the other side (i also thought that this was the right thing to do). What happened is that the lower level pro would always with better than them, and the best intermediates would always play with lower level than themself. Guess what happened. The intermediates got tired playing with novices and gradually quit. The novices didn't have fun either playing with the same level player all the time (especially when a new novice arrived). At the peak (4-5 years ago) there could be 20+ players at our winter indoor sessions. Last year we were between 8-12 players. Yes we have good players here but we could have so many more by now. I don't know how the clubs elsewhere, cope with this, but one thing i know is you can't separate the pros from the rest. I say if you lose a game you should play with the next best player or team, whoever that is (and not sitting on your ass waiting to challenge on the one and only pro court). That way everybody would play with better and lower level than themself. They would have a challenging game at least 50% of the time and if we ever get a 30 to 50 players session (oh what a dream), then the challenge would be there in every game. I think the mentality is slowly changing here and i can almost feel a revival of interest. But it's a fragile process. Martin Cote From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 17 10:09:27 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17673 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:09:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: (qmail 15702 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Oct 2000 15:33:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20001017153347.15701.qmail@web2905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [168.216.84.43] by web2905.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:33:47 PDT Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:33:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Upton Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport To: footbag@list.footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Footbag dying? Maybe "professional" footbag--although I kind of think footbag is one of those group-of-friend sports that I don't even understand how it got to be a big business. But actually, in my school, we picked it up again a few weeks ago after not having played for around 3 years. We just circle kick, instead of trying to show off tricks (convenient since I'm the only one who can do them, and about the best I can land is sitting down into a thigh stall), but it's definitely not dying in my area. ---Dan From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 17 10:09:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17684 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:09:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01135 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:02:00 -0700 Received: from hacky10.earthlink.net (1Cust20.tnt1.dekalb.il.da.uu.net [63.27.222.20]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA19517 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:01:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006801c0384b$94f8a640$14de1b3f@earthlink.net> Reply-To: "Juli Smith" From: "Juli Smith" To: Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:02:35 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hey All! One quick comment on Steve Goldberg's comments: It has been alot more than just the past 3 years that pro net players have been shunning playing with amateurs. As a spectator at Worlds for the past 10 years, I would say in general it's been more like 5 or 6 years. So how does one "encourage" the pro players to do this? Noah is calling...Take care. Juli Smith From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 17 10:20:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17731 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:20:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f From: Ted Huff Received: from imo-r17.mail.aol.com (imo-r17.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.71]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11995; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 19:03:55 -0700 Received: from Thehuff1@aol.com by imo-r17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.31.) id z.4d.211c0f9 (4395); Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:03:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4d.211c0f9.271a6a5e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:03:10 EDT Subject: [footbag] A challenge to all footbag players: DIY or DIFM ?? To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 120 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Please consider this message as a challenge to everyone that has ever entered a footbag tournament, or helped, or just watched, or ever wants to be in one: Are you a 1. Do-It-Yourself person? Or a 2. Do-It-For-Me person? If you are a DIY, then have you tried to teach the game , let alone really learn how to play the game "properly"? Ever read " The Official Rules of Footbag Sports", by the International Footbag Committee, ie. the player advisory board, and available through the World Footbag Association ???? Have you offered to pass on this sport that , if you're reading this, must care about ? OK, then if any of the above questions have been answered Yes by you, then great, but the next question is: when was the last time ? If any of the questions were answered No, then WHY NOT ? Next question: are you part of a club? Does anyone in your community know you, your club or even footbag exists as a real game or sport? Do you and your club ever offer to do demonstrations and teaching for free in public? If the answer to any of the last 3 questions is no, then WHY NOT? If you are a DIFM, has anyone ever taken the time to teach you this game "properly", so that you really enjoyed it, and had lots of fun? Did someone's help in learning this game and sport, lead you to playing better? Have you ever met new friends by playing the game and sport of footbag? Has anyone ever asked you for help in running a tournament, forming a club putting together a class to teach new players, holding a public demonstration, but you just wanted to play only, or watch ? Have you ever been thought of, by others you play footbag with, as a Hacky Slacker? The next question is: Why not try to be a leader, a DIY? The challenge is this: The game and Sport of footbag needs every DIY and DIFM to get thinking about what is happening to their sport, and decide what each can do about it NOW. The competitive side (especially net) it dying due to apathy, due to most players choosing to let older, more experienced players and promoters of clubs and tournaments, just keep doing it, without expecting that maybe they are getting tired ? Tired of lack of volunteer support from younger players? Tired of no one else stepping up to take on being a leader versus a follower? Tired of no sponsors being solicited by others? Tired of no respect and/or thanks? The only way this sport continues is by passing it on. Teaching new players young and old that FOOTBAG is fun, teaches self confidence and coordination, can be played by all ages, can be played by yourself, can even be played in a very small area, can be played as a group or a team, can be played as an energy circle of cooperation, and can be a symbol of respect for each player that makes the choice to show they can proud to be a footbag player in public. The only way this sport continues , and gains respect for its players is by showing it is organized. IF clubs are formed, they should be proud of it, and prove it in public, starting in their own community, in schools, adult/ public education classes, at sporting goods stores, in shopping malls and parks where their demonstration/ workout/play is planned and approved, and by tournaments that encourage new players to join. The only way this sport continues, and gains instead of loses sponsors, is to show it has players and clubs that are worth promoting and investing in, and profits by that investment, either by money earned and returned to that sponsor's "bottomline" and/or by advertising/marketing that is necessary for that sponsor's respect in it's community ie. public relations requirements. The first step could be, if not taken already, to wear clothing that identifies each player by the sport, or by the club, in a positive manner to it's local community, when in public and acting in behalf of the sport or club. Not every minute of the day, just when trying to gain respect for yourself as a player, or as a club, or as a team. The second step, if not already taken, is to offer to teach. basics to beginners, "the tricks of the trade" freestyle , footbag net, or footbag golf. It's all good. Good rewards can be just a simple thanks. Better is offers of sponsorship from your own community. The third step is organizing tournaments. Sometimes, to gain public/community acceptance, it's best to offer the tournament as support for a charity of club choice. Need a challenge? Take this one: email this list with monthly updates of what you or your club is doing to gain respect for yourself and your sport !! How many members did you add? What are their names ? Where did you put on a class or a demonstration? How many and who watched? Who and how many offered to help? Who did you add as a sponsor? Did you and your club thank them? Take any pictures? Did you have fun? PASS IT ON !!! That's why Steve created this online forum and the companion website http://www.footbag.org/ -- as a virtual community for us to share and build the sport together! Need help? ASK the other list members!!! Like I am asking now. I am one old hacker, part time slacker, but I still care about this sport I had the opportunity to help start 20 + years ago. Let your voices be heard, not mine !!! Shut me up! Offer support to bring in more new players to tournaments , because you are teaching and coaching !! Travel to other areas for tournaments !!! Be a part of getting organized worldwide !! My challenge: I'll offer $500 to the best, simple idea that promotes this sport now. A bumper sticker that anyone could use proudly? Like " Ask me about FOOTBAG "? Could the item be sold, with all "profits" going to fund tournament prize pools? Offset entry fees? Email your ideas, crap, etc. DIRECTLY to me (do NOT cc the list): FootbagHallofFame@footbag.org OR be a wannabe shredder hacky slacker DIFM, and watch a good sport die because you let it. unseen, untold, unsold. Sell yourself as a person worth respect, and then you , and your sport will gain because of it. Ted Huff From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 17 10:36:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17792 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:36:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from fep1.excitehome.net (fep1.excitehome.net [24.0.26.112]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17789 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:36:08 -0700 Received: from [24.16.29.242] by fep1.excitehome.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20001017173446.JGBY27764.fep1.excitehome.net@[24.16.29.242]> for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:34:46 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20001017153347.15701.qmail@web2905.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20001017153347.15701.qmail@web2905.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:34:44 -0700 To: footbag@list.footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 8:33 AM -0700 10/17/00, Dan Upton wrote: >Footbag dying? Maybe "professional" footbag--although I kind of think >footbag is one of those group-of-friend sports that I don't even >understand how it got to be a big business. Heh heh. Well, you probably haven't been to a tournament yet and seen the level of play at the top of the sport. Either way, I'm not talking about "professional" footbag. I'm talking about "organized" footbag, and especially the competitive net game. And don't get me wrong, I don't *want* it to die. This e-mail thread is a WAKE-UP CALL to all those net apathetic footbaggers out there who'd rather go to a juggling festival than a once-a-year festival whose goal is to attract new players. >but it's definitely not dying in my area. No doubt! But, you and your buddies kicking it in your hometown is what I meant by "skoolin' with your friends" as opposed to teaching new players, holding events, organizing a real club, supporting the World Footbag Association, etc. You are exactly like 99.999% of footbag players -- just hacking it up and having fun. Without a major promotional force like Wham-O or Sipa Sipa (selling the bags in every toy store in North America) or the World Footbag Association (just a few dedicated people who barely make a living at this -- thank GOD for them), there's really no way we will sustain any kind of momentum. And, honestly, the retail market has been gutted by cheap Guatemalan imports (no value judgment, just fact) and the organizational force is really just down to 10 highly dedicated individuals who all have their own life issues to deal with. If one of them has a baby one year, or has a new job and can't get time off, or is burnt out, etc., that's a HUGE loss to the sport, however, temporary. I think we're hacking on thin ice. Steve From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 17 11:18:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA17979 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:18:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from ep-notes3.wlcmail.com ([12.2.49.5]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA06755 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:10:35 -0700 Received: by ep-notes3.wlcmail.com(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) id 8625697B.00641E85 ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:13:34 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WILSON LEARNING From: "Edwin Veltman" To: footbag@footbag.org Message-ID: <8625697B.00641D05.00@ep-notes3.wlcmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:03:57 -0700 Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org A question from a net player to the freestylers: Where have you guys been hiding out? This is a question from a net player who frequents Golden Gate Park in San Francisco on Sundays, to the local freestylers. I would like to know how the situation is for other groups, too. How it was: Nets set up in Peacock Meadow, with freestylers just to the side on the (closed off) street. LOTS of foot/bicycle/rollerblade/scooter traffic going by, and many people stopping to check out the action, and able to check out some of the wide range of things that can be done with a footbag, somehow making it a bit less intimidating. The occasional freestyler trying out the net, or vice/versa. A sort of 'critical mass', where a new player was not looked on as an anomaly. I asked a net player the once, "Where are all the freestylers?", and he replied, "They're back by the conservatory, hiding behind the flowers". I don't know what kind of audience you get back there, but ours has certainly shrunk as a result. Come on back out of hiding, any perception of a tension between freestyle and net needs to be discarded, we need each other. Let's set up some traffic cones for safety, dig out some banners to announce our presence, hang out with each other, get back into the groove, grow the sport. These recent posts should be our wake-up call. We've just seen the cancellation of the Cal-State Championships this year, pretty much due to the unavailability of ONE person. Let's start planning for next year's NOW, and what the hey, don't we collectively have the energy and desire to be ADDING more tournaments, and not just sitting back and watching them die off, one by one? I myself have many, many personal responsibilities, but we should each ask ourselves, is it worth it, saving footbag, and the answer must be YES. -edwin@footbag.org From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 17 13:21:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18381 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:21:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from [207.160.174.20] (HELO [207.160.174.20]) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.2.4) with ESMTP id 135976 for footbag@list.footbag.org; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:51:22 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:51:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport From: Derrick Fogle To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org on 10/17/00 12:34 PM, Steve Goldberg at brat@footbag.org wrote: > what I meant by "skoolin' with your friends" as opposed to teaching > new players, holding events, organizing a real club, supporting the > World Footbag Association, etc. You are exactly like 99.999% of > footbag players -- just hacking it up and having fun. Without a major > promotional force like Wham-O or Sipa Sipa (selling the bags in every I've stated before, but it is relevant to this thread (and ages old in internet time): I think if footbag is to 'survive', it should survive on its own merit as an almost transcendental activity, not because it gets promoted and popularized (inevitably to make a profit). I don't really think that having footbag be a 'popular' sport like tennis or being in the Olympics is the holy grail. Footbag as an organized, 'successful business' sport, to me, seems like *less* than footbag as an unorganized activity. Yes, I'm a weirdo. I already know that. I love to play footbag, and I love to play footbag to live music in front of alot of people, and I'm pretty damn good at it. When I do it, I am promoting footbag. I've contributed a lot to the sport of footbag over the years, and my own love for kicking is all I've got left to give. It might not keep footbag from dying in other kicker's eyes, But I don't think that footbag can die as long as I'm alive and kicking, because I believe I carry the sprit. So I fail to grieve over the 'death of a sport', because it broadens the opportunity for me to share my slightly different vision of footbag with others, and maybe pass on that intangible spirit. -Derrick From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 17 13:27:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18407 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:27:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from LLIC.Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18404 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:27:38 -0700 Received: from fep1.excitehome.net (fep1.excitehome.net [24.0.26.112]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11348 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:26:36 -0700 Received: from [24.16.29.242] by fep1.excitehome.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20001017202618.KEXO27764.fep1.excitehome.net@[24.16.29.242]> for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:26:18 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <8625697B.00641D05.00@ep-notes3.wlcmail.com> References: <8625697B.00641D05.00@ep-notes3.wlcmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:26:14 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 11:03 AM -0700 10/17/00, Edwin Veltman wrote: >How it was: Nets set up in Peacock Meadow, with freestylers just to >the side on the (closed off) street. Yeah, that was then, this is now. Unfortunately, this is another example of how the sport has gotten so advanced that it's caving in on us. Freestyle is *so* hard now, that we can't play on the street next to Peacock Meadow anymore. The wind is just too strong and the uneven surface causes way too many problems. It's also too hard to focus with bikes crashing through the circle consistently. And freestyle is *such* a difficult and aerobic sport now (for those who play it at the levels of the folks you're referring to) that conditions truly do affect the ability to have fun or get a workout. Today's advanced freestyle really is an indoor sport. It's harder and harder for serious players to have any fun at all in the wind, on uneven surfaces, etc. That said, it is kind of sad that the sport is so hard that casual freestyle (doing tricks but not necessarily striving to be a top player) is going the way of the wind. I wish all those older players who were great freestylers wouldn't be embarrassed to come out and play, even if they can't hit paradox mirage. Facts are facts. There are three versions of freestyle, at least. One, is just a kicking game that is obviously the most popular. The second is a form of expression, where people do tricks and have fun in a social setting with music, etc., and it's all about energy. The third is a serious discipline that's just like any other serious discipline -- it requires *lots* of practice, players have to be in good shape to play it well, and focus is an absolute requirement if you're going to do it with other people. (The third form is unique in the sense that "circle kicking" as applied to this type of player means something entirely different than in the other two -- in this form, it's *practice*, and nothing else. It's not as much a chance to have FUN as it is a chance to get coaching from your peers, practice new moves, and get motivation and energy from others who are trying hard stuff like you are. In this form, the social part comes *after* but rarely *during*.) What's confusing a lot of older players is that they think the second form has just gotten that much harder. It hasn't. The second form has almost entirely disappeared. This is all my fault. :-( Steve From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 20 01:02:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA24940 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:02:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts5.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.25]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20266 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:00:15 -0700 Received: from sympatico.sympatico.ca ([64.229.207.224]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20001018005954.KFQH18376.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@sympatico.sympatico.ca> for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:59:54 -0400 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.0.20001017195203.009f2c40@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1vgng56@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:57:03 -0400 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Eric Cote Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org OK, you don't hear a lot from me, I'm the "silent partner" of footbag, you could say. But in some ways Martin Cote (no relationship) is right. We *must* have people willing to teach others. Voluntarily. Especially the pros. When I first started playing net, I was alone. The people I used to kick with had been long gone since high-school. I was 24. But it seemed that there was such enthusiasm about the sport, that I just had to see it for myself. Martin asked me take pictures. Or, play, if I wanted to. I played... I discovered Net Footbag because someone was willing to make me a part of that. Rare are the individuals who have done so and stuck with it. (to all of you who have, Bravo) but the fact of the matter is we *may* have grown too selective and brushed off other people who *would* want to be a part of the sport, but figured out that competition implied too much work. Building something takes time. The sport is still in its infancy (most sports need almost a century before appearing at the Olympics), and although we have top-notch elite players, we should not forget how we got there: Pros willing to take the time and help us and TEACH us. Recently, my time has been spent helping the internet part of Footbag. That is my niche/force and I chose to do what I could that way. I wouldn't have given so much energy to the sport if I thought it was going to die, but sometimes, I get a knot in the throat seeing how some people don't care about others but themselves, and how good they get. I would love it if Net and Freestyle joined hands in the promotion of Footbag here, but last summer's tournament in Montreal almost drew an inseparable wedge between the two. I didn't realize it at first, but by the end of the tournament, I felt shameful. The Pro division felt that the freestyle players (and Net intermediates) could take care of themselves and "their" tournament. Right and wrong. Competitive Freestyle has grown a lot here in Montreal over the past 1 1/2 years, but since no one in that group ever actually hosted a tournament, it was too much to expect from them. Hats off to Yacine and JF, as well as Stephane Couture from Quebec City (organizer of the first-ever Quebec City Net tournament) for taking on something they were not necessarily prepared for. We need to help people in organizing tournaments. We need to find a way to convince people and players to come to the tournaments, that it's not about money (most of us know that by now) but about the beauty and mystique of the sport. A sport so different from anything else, that most people who have seen it have had a new perspective on what *sport* is all about. Promotion is not about money, it's about believing. We need to be one, not thousands. That's my 2 cents. Eric Cote From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 20 01:06:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA24953 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:06:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f100.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.100]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25691; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:56:52 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:56:08 -0700 Received: from 209.245.68.177 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:56:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.245.68.177] From: "Bryan Fournier" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:56:08 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2000 04:56:08.0948 (UTC) FILETIME=[BAC0CB40:01C038BF] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Steve Goldberg wrote: >The second form has almost entirely disappeared. This is all >my fault. :-( I have no indepth knowledge of the second orginal "form" of freestyle. I've heard stories and gathered what I could from the oral tradition...the fact is, Steve, don't feel bad, you did not cancel out that form by starting this freestyle revolution with technicality and difficulty being the focus you merely complimented what all those old skoolers did by taking it to the next level...I don't think it was meant for *all* the old players to stick around...the legends that were talented enough to transcend the levels of play and withstand the test of time did... all the other guys from Jack Skoolcraft to Dimitri and every other footbagger moved the sport forward in their participation and i'm sure are not forgotten... you simply provided the forum in which the hardcore concepts and ideas bouncing around in these guy's heads could be unleashed...now once it has you're saying the social aspect has died...it seems like nostalgia... just look around and realize the good things about the freestyle of today... theres so much going on today that compliments the efforts of that first family...the confusion of all these moves should not be a step in the wrong direction (away from that social aspect) it should be just an expansion of the sport of footbag freestyle... so turn that frown upside down into a smile...as long as you have *respect* and acknowledge those forefathers the possibilities are endless... So I say...to everyone...new and old...find out when the next tournament is...when that next session is and just do your thang... ~Bryan Fournier OOPS! Footbag Club Hermosa Beach, Cali P.S. I didn't know that way back when there was no real order to shred circles (now you hear dudes asking whether they want it going counter- or clockwise, but hey that's cool...innovation is A OK!) From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 20 01:06:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA24964 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:06:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com (bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com [205.145.1.251]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03974 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:31:23 -0700 Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <463N2B2B>; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:31:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88084350@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Robert Riefer" To: "'footbag@footbag.org'" Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:29:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Derrick Fogle wrote: > I don't really think that having footbag be a 'popular' sport > like tennis or being in the Olympics is the holy grail. Footbag > as an organized, 'successful business' sport, to me, seems like > *less* than footbag as an unorganized activity. On this thought... It's true that there is no Holy Grail in footbag, but in my mind, something as great as footbag should be shared with as many people as possible. Look how happy it makes you, and makes all of your footbag friends, and my footbag friends, and me. Growing the sport is needed to ensure that there is always a new wave of players as dedicated to this great sport as there has always been. More footbag fanatics is better in my opinion, because that means that there are more people enjoying what I consider a completely worthwhile activity. If this ends up resulting in a profit somewhere down the line, I see no harm in that -- this need not take away from the transcendental experience that many see in footbag as it is now. And Juli Smith wrote (about trying to get net players to play with and teach less experienced players): > So how does one "encourage" the pro players to do this? I was actually just blabbing on and on and on (and on) to Steve about some ideas regarding this idea. These ideas might suck, but hey, I'm trying!! No flames please if this is lame. The basic gist: (DISCLAIMER: I'm not claiming to know how it all works, but am just brainstorming here... work with me :-). 1) Limit the number of sanctioned events per year. Maybe 8 sanctioned events based on a player vote of the most popular events. 2) "Mini pro-am" events must be offered at sanctioned events. Definition: Mini pro-ams are super short versions of a regular net bracket -- matches are shortened etc.. Short so pros aren't spending too much time away from the play that they love (that is, with other pros), nor are they getting too tired, but long enough so that newer players get some experience. 3) If you sign up for open net, you must play "mini pro-am" at the sanctioned events. 4) Sanctioned events are the only factor in seeding for worlds and for other sanctioned events. Robert From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 20 01:06:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA24975 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:06:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from ems.salk.edu (ems.salk.edu [198.202.69.12]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06849 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:47:06 -0700 Received: from [198.202.67.129] (198.202.67.129) by ems.salk.edu (Worldmail 1.3.167) for footbag@footbag.org; 18 Oct 2000 10:49:51 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20001013223011.008fb810@log.on.ca> <3.0.6.32.20001013223011.008fb810@log.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:46:54 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Cameron Kennedy Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Steve wrote: >Used to be that footbag was so hard to find that as soon as anyone >announced a festival or tournament, folks would pile into a van or >drop everything and go to an event. *Almost like they were excited to meet and hang out with cool people, kind of implies social interacton * >But, for all sorts of reasons, it seems like the older crowd is dropping >off while the younger crowd is >steering more towards just skoolin' with their friends (both net and >freestyle) and neither group is particularly excited to go to a >tournament, especially not a pro/am festival. Maybe the younger crowd is on to something: The social interaction at events seems to have been replaced by a bunch of shitty politics. I'd rather go grass roots, and hang in the park with the kids, having fun. My motivation to go to an event has to be someting other than there are other people that kick there. Steve wrote on circle kicking with top players: >"circle kicking" as applied to this type of player means something >entirely different than in the other two -- in this form, it's >*practice*, and nothing else. Ooooooh, sign me up, for a nice 8 hour drive so i can, oh never mind, i can practice in my own back yard. Events just don't have the excitement of a good session at home. You can't make people want to go to more events by shredding them out without saying a word to them, and offering little support to younger /new players. Standing in a circle, being dead silent like it's a fucking tennis match blows, especially when you don't know anyone at an event. Hey "kick with ya guys?" . . .*introductions* now shut up and wait your turn . . .hmmm fun. You can't expect new players to come back unless you have a spectator area. Younger/new players frequently show up to events to see what it is about, and expect to be able to sit back, and watch the pros (you know like any other organized sport). Footbag assumes everyone who shows up to an event want to kick or has a desire to learn to kick , they do not. Footbag is fun, organized footbag is something else, Cameron. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 20 01:10:25 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA24988 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:10:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from cdcanti01.cdc.cable.comcast.com ([38.149.175.60]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA13140 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:16:07 -0700 Received: FROM cdcexbhnt01.cdc.cable.comcast.com BY cdcanti01.cdc.cable.comcast.com ; Wed Oct 18 17:15:23 2000 -0400 Received: by cdcexbhnt01.cdc.cable.comcast.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4Y80453C>; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:15:22 -0400 Message-ID: <7B7D747E9FC3D3119FDE009027E7A7DD1ED4F3@cdcexcg01.cdc.cable.comcast.com> From: "David Sanchez" To: "'footbag@footbag.org'" Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:15:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hello fellow footbaggers, I have not been in the footbag scene for very long. However, I feel that I could confidently say that there is no way that footbag is considering dying. I myself have just become aware of the life contained in footbag. Perhaps the west coast is experiencing a relatively dry season as far as participation at tournaments is concerned, but from my perspective the sport is in wonderful condition. Initially I doubted the stability of the sport when confronted with the original "wake up call" from Steve ( A very important wake up call ), but I thought of how much I enjoyed the sport and dismissed the idea. This morning I watched some video footage of Worlds 2000 and felt the need to post in reference to this thread. Upon watching this video my concerns for the health of footbag were relieved. The particular portion of the video that seemed more than pertinent to this thread was the freestyle finals. The segments which represented the health of the sport began with Peter Irish's dropless routine,,, a wonderful routine indeed. Then there were some other incredible routines including an interesting (first time in worlds finals) routine by Lon Smith(Congrats on the BAP-tism). The finals were then concluded by a ridiculously splendid performance by Ryan Mulroney. A very classy close-to-flawless routine. The music appeared as if it could have been overdubbed it went so perfect, kudos indeed. This glorious routine was compounded by an uproar in the crowd and a sentimental hug from his grandma. Once the crowd calmed down there was still a couple more arguments for the life of footbag. Austin Sparks(12 years young) and Juha Linnanen(14 years young) demonstrated for us that some of the seeds of footbag have been deeply planted in fertile soil and although the season in general has not produced mass participation fruitful seasons can be depended upon in the future. Austin's spectacular demonstration ended and he got the well deserved respectful handshake from Kenny Shults, truly a Kodak moment. Juha displayed amazing control in his dropless routine the night before during the second round routines as well as performing a difficult demonstration on finals night. I am just saying thank you for the wake up call Steve, it helped me take a look around for signs of life. I've found them and am particularly happy with them. Though the change in weather has made play more sparse lately I still plan on attending the D.C. jam this weekend and I am positive that I will not be let down. If you are in the area, do what you can to keep this wake up call from being a reality,,, keep footbag alive, it doesn't take a hoard of people really, just lots of dedication (many of you have displayed your endless determination). Even though I am one of those people that enjoy the "underground" aspect of the sport I still look to keep the escalation process of the sport in full force. I regret being unable to speak on behalf of the net aspect of the sport. I have had limited experience but intend to expand upon that experience. I did however watch some incredible net matches at worlds, there is some incredible talent in all aspects of this sport and no vital signs seem to be failing. The difficulty in promoting footbag seems to be that it is mostly enjoyable for the players rather than the spectators(besides when the spectators happen to be players). So the least we can do to promote the sport is exactly what we have been doing all along, playing. Keep it up all and rather than worry about a sport that was just born dying,,, enjoy the HUGE part you can play in nursing this young sport into a mature adult. Thank you for your time if you actually read this mail and I hope to see you playing footbag someday soon. David Sanchez philly footworks From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 20 01:10:32 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA24999 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:10:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f From: Brenda Solonoski Received: from BSolonoski@aol.com by imo-r14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.31.) id z.94.ae8cb89 (4409) for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:58:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <94.ae8cb89.271fa11c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:58:04 EDT Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport To: footbag@list.footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 123 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I think competitive footbag is losing competitors, but circle kicking is alive and well. The competitors come from the cream of the circle kickers. Thus finding the circle kickers or having them find you is a goal. Before 4 stores, 1 child and old age, Joe and I would kick while waiting in a line, during the breaks at hockey games, at concerts, in the street waiting for friends, etc. We would attract more kickers each time. Thus, the solution to more numbers is to have more kicking appearances. Everyone on this list's goal should be to kick at one event they attend once a month. That is one time kicking for 5 - 15 minutes one time once a month. Ted challenge us for ideas. Action is required. Take the footbag challenge. I have accepted it. I will be kicking on Sunday in Gettysburg at Liberty's ski slope for their appreciation day. Next month I will kick the first Sat. at half time at my son's soccer game. How about you? Brenda From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 20 01:10:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA25010 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:10:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f243.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.243]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25908 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:37:59 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:37:45 -0700 Received: from 64.228.185.44 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 04:37:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.228.185.44] From: "Yves Archambault" To: derrick@foundationcomputing.net Cc: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 04:37:45 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2000 04:37:45.0429 (UTC) FILETIME=[536AE850:01C03986] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Yes there's a lot of different point of views and I certainly share some of Derrick's although I am still a hard core competitor. The 2 ways of seeing it are not apart for me there as one thing and I firmly believe in this holy configuration. Peace Yevez From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 20 10:24:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26318 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:24:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net ([207.160.174.55]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20272 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 07:41:26 -0700 Received: from [207.160.174.20] (HELO [207.160.174.20]) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.2.4) with ESMTP id 137934 for footbag@footbag.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 04:41:12 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:41:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport From: Derrick Fogle To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org on 10/17/00 11:56 PM, Bryan Fournier at freestyle_spaz@hotmail.com wrote: > P.S. I didn't know that way back when there was no real order to shred > circles (now you hear dudes asking whether they want it going counter- or Oh, we didn't self-serve either. Not even when we dropped the first kick from a serve. Of course, because anyone could serve to anyone else, the group tended to serve more to players that couldn't keep rallies going as long. Of all the changes that have ever come about in freestyle, that self-serving bullshit is the one thing I've never been able to accept. It just grates on my nerves. I have to leave the circle. Anyway, I think the consensus is that we've got problems, but we're doing OK. We're just stopping to catch our breath before the next big explosion. Dynamite comes in small packages. Never doubt that a small group of dedicated people can change the world; indeed, its the only thing that ever has. Roses are red, violets are blue, I wish I could play footbag better than you. Don't any of you all take me too seriously. I'm just a troublemaker, you know . I just like to annoy all you young whippersnappers that can spank my aging butt, but you never had to hackysack uphill against the wind in 3 feet of snow for 10 miles each way from school and back every day. Now, back when I was your age, we had this very organic blah blah going on and blah blah blah actually encouraged new players by blah blah blah. It was blah blah blah I remember once blah blah blah and and almost every other serve went to this kid blah blah blah blah. Finally, blah blah blah and everybody even cheered! -Derrick PS - If you want to self-serve, please go kick by yourself! From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 20 19:25:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27619 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:25:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com (bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com [205.145.1.251]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29909 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:47:10 -0700 Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <463NQLZR>; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:47:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA880843C0@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Riefer, Robert" To: "'Yves Archambault'" Cc: footbag@footbag.org Subject: RE: [footbag] The death of a sport Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:47:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Yves Archambault [mailto:yevez@hotmail.com] wrote: >I'm sorry Robert but I have to disagree with you on that. Don't be sorry! I'm happy to hear everyone's ideas :-) >A tournament is not the time to disperse your energy at all. What about a mini pro-am after tournament play is finished? Would it be possible to make time for this? It would mean that people would have to show up on time to start matches etc. On the other side of the coin, what do you think about the idea of limiting sanctioned tourneys and making them the only basis for rankings for worlds. My thought there is that this would increase attendance at larger events -- kind of separate from the net part of this thread, but still important. >It would be more realistic to offer these people a realistically viable >economical alternative (paid training camps, workshops, training sessions) >that to continuously harass them with unrealistic childlike guilt based >harassment. Well, I can see your point here. Camps are great, and would be great to offer in conjunction with something like a soccer camp (this would get some that have never heard of footbag involved in a hurry). But I still gotta say that nothing gets the already interested (and interested in learning) player involved more than a little attention at a tourney. Example.. my first tourney, you taught me some stuff about serving, and it really has stuck with me, and made a big impact at the time :-) If not the pro-am idea, what about offering real cheap instruction at the end of a tourney? $5 per player that wants tutoring from the pro's for an hour or something like this? If 5 players wanted the tutoring, the pro giving instruction would earn $25 for one hour of helping out. I think this type of thing might work more nicely than my original idea... > We spend so much money to go to > tournaments let's not feel guilty to get some of it back. Right on. There's nothing wrong with getting some back. If anything, it will help you guys (and gals) to get to more events etc. OK, that's all on this one for now. Good thoughts Yves... I feel like going out and practicing right now so I can kick your butt next time I see you!! Bob Riefer From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 20 19:25:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27629 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:25:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from pop.ajubasolutions.com (earth.ajubasolutions.com [206.14.70.4]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00950 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:39:42 -0700 Received: from pop.ajubasolutions.com (pop.ajubasolutions.com [209.24.201.136]) by pop.ajubasolutions.com (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08215 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200010202240.PAA08215@pop.ajubasolutions.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.2 5/8/2000 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] The life in a sport X-URL: http://www.ajubasolutions.com/people/brent.welch/ X-Face: "HxE|?EnC9fVMV8f70H83&{fgLE.|FZ^$>@Q(yb#N,Eh~N]e&]=>r5~UnRml1:4EglY{9B+ :'wJq$@c_C!l8@<$t,{YUr4K,QJGHSvS~U]H`<+L*x?eGzSk>XH\W:AK\j?@?c1o Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org We had a great time at the Bay Area Fall Festival a couple weekends ago. Saturday was "pro day" down in Mountain View. There were 8 teams and we foolishly tried a double elimination bracket. I say foolishly because these old legs of mine were toast during the final. Alexi Duchamps and Brent Stewart prevailed over david Butcher and Brent Welch, who had battled back from an early loss to John Leys and PT Lovern to beat them again towards the end of the bracket. I'll make a short posting later tonight with the brackets in front of me so all credits are correct. I may note that Brent Allard was also out, completing the Brent-cubed experience. Our special surprise guests were Yosarian Kelly and Simon Hearsey who came down from Seattle for a Phish concert at nearby Shoreline Amphitheater. Most folks retreated to the Welch's for beers and burritos from our local, awesome, burrito place. Saturday was "pro-am" day where we again ended up with 8 teams that paired experienced players with relative newcomers. Much fun was had by all. I must not forget the 10:00 golf round nor the beautiful weather. Fall is a great time in the Bay Area. It was cool to see top freestylers like Eric Wulff filling a net court, although we finally had to make them shred a bit to satisfy a number of eager "freestyle followers" that showed up to shoot video and gawk. Finally, I apologize for not putting out that much advance notice. I was perfectly happy with the crowd that showed up, although I know it could have been bigger, perhaps. I'm looking forward to kicking up in Berkeley tomorrow and having dinner at Lisa McDaniel's place. To me that is what is best about footbag. A great day in the park and food and drinks among friends later that night. It's also cool to kick in front of the theater with Jody while waiting for a movie and then get to tell kids that join the circle that I've been kicking since before they were born. See ya! -- Brent Welch http://www.ajubasolutions.com Scriptics has become Ajuba Solutions From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 20 19:25:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27624 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:25:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from rlh-mail.hh-sf.com (w131.z206111146.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net [206.111.146.131]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA32154 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:47:12 -0700 Received: by RLH-MAIL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:46:35 -0700 Message-ID: <44EB707222C9D3119D10005004A1AEC0272491@RLH-MAIL> From: John Leys To: "'footbag@footbag.org'" Subject: Self-service (was Re: [footbag] The death of a sport) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:46:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I agree whole-heartedly with Derrick as far as all this self-service nonsense goes. Except for the past couple years I have been shredding at a relatively high level since 1993. I can't remember a time when Kenny, or Rippin', or D, or Tim, or anybody for that matter would self serve (except maybe if they were going for a 6 adder). So at worlds this year I head into the shred room, jump into a circle, and am immediately confronted by self-serving all over the place by wanna be BAPers. I leave the circle at this point (not interested in seeing an intermediate go for flurry time and time again) and head over to the BAP circle to watch. No self-service there. These guys are playing with class - as it should be. You drop, you pass it on! If your buddy wants to see what you were about to go for then he will toss it back to you, if he doesn't he won't! Freestyle is not only about yourself but about your your friends and the energy of the circle. Peace~ John "None shall pass!" From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 22 11:18:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA30689 for footbag-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:18:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from outbound.ea.com (outbound.ea.com [12.35.91.3]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28601 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:05:08 -0700 Received: from eahq-bh1.ea.com (eahq-bh1.ea.com [10.14.204.31]) by outbound.ea.com (Switch-2.0.1/Switch-2.0.1) with ESMTP id e9M06vt10065 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:06:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by eahq-bh1.ea.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4ZWFZYJP>; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:05:13 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Brent Allard" To: "'footbag@footbag.org'" Subject: Re: [footbag] The death of a sport Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:05:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org The recent "death of a sport" email thread got me thinking about a way I might be able to get a few more people involved in our sport. I work for Electronic Arts in Redwood City, CA. EA is one of the larger video game companies in the world. We employee around 1500 people here in Redwood City, several hundred of which are young video game testers. I would love to try to get some of those people interested in Footbag Net. We have this great big flat lawn on our campus that should be a perfect place to play. Here's where I need your help: In order to get some folks interested in the sport, I'd love to have a few pros come out and do a demonstration of net some Friday around lunchtime. Doesn't have to be anything fancy, just a few people to come out and play for an hour or so and show what fun Footbag Net can be. If you are interested in participating, please email me at ballard@ea.com . I'll get a list together and we can figure out what date would work the best for everyone. I've already checked with my company and they're okay with this happening. If any of the participants are interested, I can give you a tour of the EA campus afterwards too. Once we've figured out a date, I'll send an email out to EA and let everyone know its going to be happening, point them towards www.footbag.org if they want more information on the sport, and offer to teach anyone who is interested how to play the game. Thanks all. Brent D. Allard ballard@ea.com 650-628-7265 [Moderator's note: please reply directly to Brent, and not to the footbag e-mail list. Thanks. -Steve] From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 23 10:02:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00567 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:02:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.83]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA32428 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 00:01:38 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.21.169.241]) by femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20001023070018.NLXM4464.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 00:00:18 -0700 Message-ID: <39F3E3D1.5AFE9E18@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 02:08:01 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Self-service Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org > Derrick Fogle wrote: > > > > Oh, we didn't self-serve either. Of all the changes that have ever come about > > in freestyle, that self-serving bullshit is the one thing I've never been able > > to accept. It just grates on my nerves. I have to leave the circle. > > > > PS - If you want to self-serve, please go kick by yourself! > > I have to disagree here. Self-serving has its place. When you are trying to skool a new move, you won't hit it the first time. So, let's say that you want to hit your very first legbeater. You get the bag, try, and drop. It lasts all of about 2 seconds. Now, wait until the bag gets around the circle and try it again. When I am learning new moves, it helps to give it about three tries in a row. If I'm kicking by myself, I get too tired to keep going. If I'm in a circle with two or three other people, I get the perfect amount of rest between my three tries. But, if I pass the bag after each attempt and wait for the passback or whatever, it wastes time and breaks my rythym. Now, if you are out in public - trying to get people interested in the sport or whatever - you should be concious of how you look. Self serves and constant drops are NOT fun to watch. So, don't self serve if you are trying to impress others. So, in summary... there are two types of play - skooling and showing. Don't self serve if you are trying to put on a show. But, if you are skooling a new move, why not? If you don't self serve, it will take you a lot longer to progress. At least that is my opinion... -Derric (without the 'k') From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 23 21:50:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA01948 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:50:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f148.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.148]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17565 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:27:08 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:26:23 -0700 Received: from 128.206.120.240 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:26:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Self-service Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:26:23 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Oct 2000 21:26:23.0703 (UTC) FILETIME=[E4C5AE70:01C03D37] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Derrick Fogle wrote: > PS - If you want to self-serve, please go kick by yourself! Derric Scalf wrote: > I have to disagree here. Self-serving has its place. ... there are > two types of play - skooling and showing. Show, schmo--skool, schmool... I think Steve said it right the other day when he said that most of us new school kickers tend to regard general kicking as practice, not all of us of course, but many. I fall into this category. This does not mean I do not enjoy it; I obviously do, otherwise I would be out rock climbing or playing Ultimate in my free time. I am working work a lot of hours (45+), finishing up my education, looking for a job, and trying to cater to a girlfriend's needs. Three and four years ago I had time to style everyday, but now when I get out to kick, I consider it MY time for ME. I love having friends to share my kicking time with and enjoy their presence immensely, and in doing so, I usually give up the bag to them on my mistakes and drops. But sometimes, if I miss my initial toe delay before my run starts, I will on a rare occasion pick it up and go again--usually successfully. Though more often than not, I pass it on--even in a situation where I miss a simple kick. Why? Because I am aware of the people I kick with and realize they would like a shot to kick as well. In my opinion self-serving at tourneys or where you are kicking with a group of people you do not know (my opinion of the "show" Derric discussed) is not right. Period. To me, footbag is a sport. A workout. One such sport that I am utterly passionate about and wish the world would find out about. I want more people to kick--yes. BUT, I kick more for me than others around me. I WILL kick by myself if noone wants to kick with me. Not a problem. Don't think I will stop kicking because everyone else does, or cares not to kick with me...that is absurd. And I, most definitely, will not change my style. Most people I kick with are under the exact same mentality I am. We do have an old skooler who does not agree with self-serving at all. What are you gonna do? I respect his thoughts and, as I said, USUALLY do not self-serve. Others do not. Such is life. Shit happens. In my opinion, pushing yourself to your limits goes along with this as well. If we all truly push it to the max, there should be no self serves, right? So, go big, pass the bag, and everyone stop bitching. Theses are my thoughts. Ian D. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 23 21:51:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA01954 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:51:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f94.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.94]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20204 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:52:09 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:51:24 -0700 Received: from 63.253.6.3 by lw4fd.law4.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:51:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.253.6.3] From: "Tu Vu" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Where's Worlds? Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:51:24 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Oct 2000 22:51:24.0413 (UTC) FILETIME=[C50842D0:01C03D43] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Where is worlds going to be held next year??? Is it because footbag has been declared dead that no one is intrested in holding the world footbag championships. How about EUROPE???? The Germans, Swiss, and Fins have hoards of serious followers that I think are ready to put it on. come on...does anyone know what's going on with worlds. I had a lot to say about the death of the sport of footbag but i was bounced from the list so i will keep quiet. Tu From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 23 21:53:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA01970 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:53:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from dns1.provide.net (root@dns1.provide.net [216.86.64.33]) by LLIC.Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26388 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:49:20 -0700 Received: from scratchyball.nodomain (matt@usr04-122.provide.net [216.86.66.250]) by dns1.provide.net (8.9.0/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA13848 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:49:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Matt Craig To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Self-service Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:27:00 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain References: <39F3E3D1.5AFE9E18@dallasfootbag.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00102322443007.10660@scratchyball.nodomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Derrick Fogle wrote: > PS - If you want to self-serve, please go kick by yourself! Word! Derric Scalf wrote: > I have to disagree here. Self-serving has its place... > try, and drop. It lasts all of about 2 seconds. Now, wait until the > bag gets around the circle and try it again. Yeah, and if everyone else is self-serving, you have to wait a month for it to get back to you. On the other hand some people are even nice and see you going for a cool new move and pass right it back to you. Nice friendly people, that's what footbag is all about (or is it about "dance", I forget). So, let me offer a solution (not further argument). Get with the people in your circle and let them know how you feel. Tell them, "My name is Derric and I'm a self-server". They might say the same thing and, hey, you can all agree to do it in your own circle. If they turn and say to you, "I feel your pain. And I can help you overcome that," then you all can agree together to pass it right back to the shredder who stumbled but really can hit that move. She/he just needs another chance. > Now, if you are out in public - trying to get people interested in the > sport or whatever - you should be concious of how you look. > Don't self serve if you are trying to put on a show. > -Derric (without the 'k') Valid point. Matt (without the "D-e-r-r-i-c" or the "k") -- MichiganFootbag.org