From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Apr 5 01:13:08 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA12464 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 01:13:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from deimos.hpl.hp.com (deimos.hpl.hp.com [192.6.19.190]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13296 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:48:50 -0700 Received: from hplms2.hpl.hp.com (hplms2.hpl.hp.com [15.0.152.33]) by deimos.hpl.hp.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_18546)/HPL-PA Relay) with ESMTP id OAA27292 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from home.com (hplms26.hpl.hp.com [15.255.168.31]) by hplms2.hpl.hp.com (8.10.2/8.10.2 HPL-PA Hub) with ESMTP id f34LmhW29287 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3ACB96BC.F412B8D4@home.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 14:48:44 -0700 From: Julie Symons X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-CCK-MCD HPL-PA (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Guatemala: Footbags Galore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I just got back from a two week trip to Guatemala. And I just couldn't believe how many Guatemalan footbags I saw. Almost every street vendor and market stand had them for sale. I saw advertised prices as low as 5 Quetzales (that is less than 70 cents). And that's before wheeling and dealing, Guatemalan-style. At the Guatemala City airport, I filled out a four page survey for the tourism board, and when I finished, guess what my gift was for taking the time to do the survey? You bet, it was a Guatemalan footbag, which, by the way, goes for Q20 at the airport. But I only saw two cirlces of kickers, Guatemalans. Just giggling the whole time, having fun. They just laughed some more (with some ooh and aahs) when my sister and I joined their circle for a few kicks. Of course, the Guatemalans love foot sports. The school kids play soccer every chance they get with any ball that's round and flies. There are soccer fields everwhere that there is a resemblance of a field and any kind of stick, branch, or pole is used to form goal posts. These Guatemalans are cranking out thousands of footbags and selling them to tourists and exporters at very low prices, spreading footbag to the world. Cheap footbags, easy to kick, and most accessible. They certainly don't think footbag is dead. Good or bad for footbag? What do you think? Adios Amigos e Amigas! Julie From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Apr 6 22:00:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA17400 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 22:00:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f From: Ted Huff Received: from imo-r18.mx.aol.com (imo-r18.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.72]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17472 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 07:15:24 -0700 Received: from Thehuff1@aol.com by imo-r18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id t.c5.f7fd327 (7866); Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:14:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:14:32 EDT Subject: Re: [footbag] Guatemala: Footbags Galore To: juliesymons@home.com CC: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10520 (piece of crap) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Yo ! Do they really know that they are making footbags, or beanbags, and why ? The big picture is: It's too bad that this whole cheap crochet footbag deal was not handled better by those that were or have been in the footbag business, and at one time controlled it. The reality is that these footbags have driven out any ability to make a profit in the footbag business, therefore most legitimate manufacturers , and most normal sporting goods dealers don't see any reason to support FOOTBAG, as a sport, by even trying to sell good footbags at whatever price. That's why Whamo/Hacky Sack brand only sells cheap quality: they cant' make any satisfactory profit on a better made product, nor can their retailers. That's why SIPA SIPA isn't what it used to be, as a manufacturer, and supporter of the sport. That's why it's tough for the best, such as Flying Clipper, to even be able to continue to make a quantity of quality, net footbags. That's why Bruce Guettich/WFA trys so very hard to get support for our sport, and gets turned down by time and again for sponsorship that would benefit so many players and clubs. The WFA never gets enough thanks for the role they play in our footbag world, as another example of why it's a struggle to get the support , and respect this sport should have, just based on the quality of athletic play !! THAT'S WHY WE CAN'T GET BIG TIME SPONSORS ! We, our sport's players/promoters, don't show up as a group that can be supported by the normal sporting goods community. We appear to the general public as street corner performers, playing with cheap , imported beanbags, but having fun. That's why most don't see footbag as a sport, or worthy of being called one. With all the teaching in schools, etc. in the U.S. alone, it would be great to see that acceptance already attained. But, we are not organized enough . Sorry, but the bottom line is that those beanbags do nothing to support the growth of footbag, since they, those Guatemalan makers of beanbags, have no real idea what the game is, or who's buying them and why. Those beanbags represent an item to sell cheap worldwide, with no benefit to the sport. Personally, I'd like to think that as a sport's group, it's to our benefit to support those that support us, and not encourage those that don't. Best regards, Ted Huff, Footbag Hall of Fame Historical Society From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Sun Apr 8 23:38:30 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA21878 for footbag-outgoing; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 23:38:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from bucky.excite.com (bucky-rwcmex.excite.com [198.3.99.218]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23593 for ; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 15:18:49 -0700 Received: from bernie.excite.com ([199.172.148.157]) by bucky.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010407221843.QOFL25251.bucky.excite.com@bernie.excite.com>; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 15:18:43 -0700 Message-ID: <23150268.986681923149.JavaMail.imail@bernie.excite.com> Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 15:18:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Vince Bradley To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Guatemala: Footbags Galore Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 209.48.222.18 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org If people kick, it's good for the sport. If they enjoy making things people kick, it's good for the sport. If the making of these goods harms the profitability and markets of the sport, then the profitability and markets of the sport is harmed. But it doesn't harm the growth of the sport itself, or its developments, or its players, or its community. I am ashamed of pro footbaggers who do not support the businesses that have grown with our sport. But not so ashamed at that as I am at players and promoters who forget the most important thing- how it all started for one simple reason. It's fun to kick. ...and to meet kickers. Have fun. To quote on of footbags greatest ambassadors, "the most fun wins." l8r vince From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Mon Apr 9 11:38:00 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23207 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:38:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f76.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.76]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23482 for ; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 22:56:37 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 22:56:01 -0700 Received: from 64.228.185.92 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 05:56:01 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.228.185.92] From: "Yves Archambault" To: footbag@footbag.org Cc: yevez@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [footbag] Guatemala: Footbags Galore Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 05:56:01 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2001 05:56:01.0484 (UTC) FILETIME=[C18908C0:01C0C0B9] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi Ted, I really think that you have a reduced view of the big economic picture to see things like that. First of all even when Wham-O was selling 1,000,000 footbags a year they never even contributed 10 cents per footbag for the sport (This would have meant 100,000$ for the organizers). They were the first ones to make their footbags in Taiwan at very cheap prices and if they didn't make money with that that's because they screwed up. In fact they were never really interested by the sport of Footbag, the only thing they care about is profit. The Sipa-Sipa story is pretty much the same the hired cheap labor in the Philippines and Flying Clipper did the same in Pakistan through I Dig and went to Guatemala themselves afterwards. A couple of Americans went to Guatemala in the early nineties and saw all the nice crocheted items that they could make over there. They asked them to make a footbag like a Sipa-Sipa and they did. Some other americans saw that, thought that they were cool. And in fact they are. The indian people that craft these things have a real sense of color matching and a Sipa-Sipa doesn't look so artsy compared to it. It might be more durable but it's costly for what it is considering where it's made. The greed of these americans companies made them lose that part of the competition in the World market as it's often the case. How many made in China things do you see around you nowadays? The problem with Hacky Sack is not that they can't make a profit making good footbags, they can, they pay people 0.15/hour in China for Christ sake. They are just not interested in something so underground. Frisbees and other established products are much easier to sell to corporate clients. Footbags sells in all sorts of shops and web sites and it has nothing to do with us not getting sponsorship. Bring a spectucalar event with a "Pro" marketing team and you will be surprised. This sport has been handled by amateurs (which did a good job considering their credentials which were mostly a great love of the game) since the beginning. Money can come from a lot of different sources depending of the level of amateurism or Professionalism that's injected in an event and it's basically related to the level of public attention it can draw. Exposure, Exposure, Exposure, Exposurel, TV exposure and crowd like it was in Portland in 97 and Montreal 96 and 98 and here you go. Unfortunately the Chicago and Vancouver editions of World's were Drawbacks. As for the Net bags not coming from Flying Clipper anymore it's not related in any way with the Guatemalan Footbags. First of all they always claimed that the Net Bags were not a priority. They claimed that they couldn't sell more than 500 a year and the soft bags were selling better and it's true. They stopped making them available to the clubs at Wholesale price more than 2 years ago (Which was already an appreciable $22 a piece) and want to get $35 for each of them 'cause they are making the net bags themselves and are tired of doing so. Net bags are more work. They never wanted to have people overseas makin' the net bags 'cause they failed at first. In Montreal we now use Net bags made in Pakistan that are a lot cheaper but are surprisingly durable and using a new material never seen before on the scene (Rexcian). Mass marketing of Net Footbags would never sustain prices of $35 to $40 US dollars a piece. People are not crazy they can see a lot of manufactured goods with a lot more work and investment in them selling for a lot cheaper. That's why Footbag manufacturers go overseas. It's the real World. Economics rules and the same laws apply to all products. So now can you make sense of that equation: Hacky Sack claims no profit 32 panel by average sewer with training = + or - 1 hour Salary paid in China 0.15/hour Guatemalan bag knitted with nice intricate pattern= + or - 1 hour minimum salary in Guatemala in 1994= 0.39/hour What's missing here? It's just a myth and personally I'm happy that a lot of people can come in contact with the circle game with a nice, very decently kickable object made by the very fine people of Guatemala instead of Chinese or Philippinos cause that's the real debate. The net game is just not known at all. There are not even net sets available not even net bags and nobody really ever tried to market that seriously. How can someone who wants to play right away could do that? And make no mistake "right away" is very important. People can change their mind very fast if they have to make their own net set, or cruise the whole internet, use a credit card, trust someone they don't know etc. etc.. before getting the equipment they need to play. We also need a very good instructional video for net (Tricks of the trade, net version). But it's all marketing and it's gonna happen only if there is a substantial profit to be made, so in the short term freestyle is a much better bet. Ciao! Yevez From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Mon Apr 9 11:38:12 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23212 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:38:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.83]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03889 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 06:39:40 -0700 Received: from tina ([198.211.187.134]) by cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3225); Mon, 9 Apr 2001 06:39:04 -0700 Message-ID: <000901c0c0fa$7ed4b4c0$86bbd3c6@tina> From: "Tina Lewis" To: References: <23150268.986681923149.JavaMail.imail@bernie.excite.com> Subject: Re: [footbag] Guatemala: Footbags Galore Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:39:25 -0500 Organization: Microsoft Corporation X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2001 13:39:04.0463 (UTC) FILETIME=[717B31F0:01C0C0FA] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Just yesterday - I saw a young teenager kicking a yellow crochet smiley face footbag. He was hanging with his parents and kicking every chance they stopped on the sidewalk. Those are the kids that will hopefully buy nice footbags when they discover them. Tina. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Mon Apr 9 11:58:27 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23283 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:58:27 -0700 Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23280 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:58:26 -0700 Received: from llic.net (llic.net [209.125.90.2]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16454; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:51:36 -0700 Received: from [209.125.90.60] ([24.16.24.176]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA31894; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:51:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: Host [24.16.24.176] claimed to be [209.125.90.60] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.21 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:49:52 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] Guatemala: Footbags Galore Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 5:56 AM -0700 4/9/01, Yves Archambault wrote: >Unfortunately the Chicago and Vancouver editions of World's were Drawbacks. Not to start anything because I agree with 95% of what Yevez wrote, but I have to comment on this point. Note, please, a very important change that occurred in 1999 that could have had a great (negative) impact on footbag overall, and on Worlds in particular: Wham-O stopped sponsoring. Whereas they had always given between $4,000 and $10,000 (remember who wrested that $10k from Wham-O for Worlds in Montreal?), they put in $0.00 for Chicago and Vancouver. Steve Goldberg took their place in funding the Chicago prize money, but everyone complained about how little it was, so I stopped doing that. Without a major sponsor, we can't run professional-looking tournaments. If there's one thing I've learned over the last few years, it's that we can't and shouldn't rely on footbag *manufacturers* to fund footbag events. If we are to be successful, aside from all the other things everyone knows we need to do, we need money. I don't blame our current funding levels on anyone. But I know I've certainly masked a lot of the problem over the last few years by contributing so much cash out of my pocket (and others did, too). Well, for better or worse, I'm done doing that and hopefully it will become apparent to tournament organizers that they have to spend more energy getting donations and sponsorships than they have in the last few years. 'Nuff said. :-) Steve From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Apr 12 14:28:17 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA30975 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:28:17 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:28:17 -0700 From: owner-footbag@footbag.org Message-Id: <200104122128.OAA30975@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24262 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:51:24 -0700 Received: from mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.118]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03121 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:44:33 -0700 Received: from storefull-616.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-616.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.26]) by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id B5E032C2BB for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from production@localhost) by storefull-616.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id TAA05062; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:44:25 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRmAWu9HZq5LAk93+E1bIZJCEt84QIUPKTeP6mqsLsFsqFbUzc4ZZ+a+LM= From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 22:44:24 -0400 (EDT) To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Guatemala: Footbags Galore Message-ID: <7648-3AD27388-228@storefull-616.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hey all- Ted Huff said; "I'd like to think that as a sport's group, it's to our benefit to support those that support us, and not encourage those that don't." This makes a rather large amount of sense to me. And don't get discouraged. Continue to expose people to the sport, and educate them about it as much as possible. There are a lot of "hackers" out there that need to know how much better off they would be with better bags, and better shoes, and shorts instead of pants, and video footage, and...... btw, Tour de Michigan has been quite successful. We have had 12 people pumped on freestyle at the last 2 stops. We now have 17 people on our listserve, with 84 messages generated last month! This is easily twice the scene it was here in the grand ol' days (that is saying something). It is feeling like a rebirth of footbag in Michigan. Anybody interested in joining us in doing this, should! Take care, Greg From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Apr 12 14:29:33 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA30988 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:29:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from valinet.com (IDENT:root@[208.171.246.3]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25234 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 07:11:15 -0700 Received: from dbotkin.hampshire.edu (atlanta-ip-3-159.dynamic.ziplink.net [206.15.153.159]) by valinet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16635 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:04:32 -0400 Message-Id: <200104101404.KAA16635@valinet.com> Reply-To: From: "Daniel Botkin" To: Subject: Re: [footbag] Guatemala: Footbags Galore Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:06:03 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org > These Guatemalans are cranking out thousands of > footbags and selling them to tourists and exporters > at very low prices, spreading footbag to the world. > Cheap footbags, easy to kick, and most accessible. > They certainly don't think footbag is dead. > Good or bad for footbag? What do you think? @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Julie and Footbag List, You ask an interesting question which I have pondered... Another important question (for me) is the converse: whether mass footbag production and merchandising is "good" for Guatemala... In 1986, while living and working in Central America, I stumbled on the remarkable and delightful power of footbag as a cultural ice breaker and peacemaking tool. Like many travelling kickers, I exploited this discovery to great advantage whenever I could. Smitten by these impromptu, streetside experiences teaching the game (as well as sack sewing), http://www.valinet.com/~dbotkin/cajour.html the following year I recruited five other activist/athletes to demonstrate and teach footbag in a more deliberate way. During the winter of 88-89 we five young gringo kickers and a filmmaker, set out on an unusual four- month "citizen diplomacy" tour through Nicaragua, Honduras and Guatemala. At the time of this first "footbag peace" journey we observed little kicking action in Central America other than soccer ("futbol") and a variety of home-grown, soccer-like adaptations, a ball of rags or a rotten orange. But with footbag, without a lot of words, politics or complex translations, we were able to positively transform our encounters with the natives. Our love of kicking (and sewing our own) became and remained the simple message and best vehicle to communicate and share ourselves and our culture. We were rarely asked why we were there, who we represented, or by what authority we'd come. Just showing up in the streets and plazas, our message was self evident. We were universally welcomed, even in places where people might have had ample reason to hate us. Armed with "el futbolito", bags of scraps and needles, we frequently shifted the negative stereotypes and projections which usually define the "gringo/latino" relationship. (http://www.valinet.com/~dbotkin/history.html) Returning to Guatemala in '93 I was surprised to find crocheted footbags everywhere and very cheap. At first, I was thrilled. But over time I've come to be ambivalent about this. On one hand, I love the cultural link it creates between the soccer-crazy guatemaltecos and some of the young foreigners. Also, anything that creates more usable bags, (even crocheted ones) makes more potential kickers, which makes more exposure for the sport, thus more craftspeople, better products and so must surely be a good thing. No? But after making a point to get to know some sewers of said suddenly ubiquitous footbags, I grew more doubtful and sad. I'll spare you the intense social history of Guatemala, but suffice to say, the sewers of these bags are the poorest, most marginalized class of (indigenous) people within a very poor country, where poverty is not just an unfortunate fact of life, but also an essential cornerstone of the socio-economic system. The people I met crochet these products late at night (when there is no other paid work available) by totally inadequate light. Once a month, if the product is acceptable, they received about 30 cents per bag from a Guatemalan middle man, who then sold them (in bulk for about a dollar each) to various N. American importers. The producers themselves told me they were glad for the few quetzales they made crocheting "las bolitas", however I saw zero evidence that this commerce changed their life circumstances in any tangible way. To the contrary, it seemed to me just to reinforce the status quo. A year later, an adventurous, expatriot family (Will and Bonnie Freed and kids, from N. Carolina, who I'd recently taught to make footbags) set up a small footbag making cooperative in the village of San Marcos. Their vision was not simply to export quality deerskin footbags and earn a little dinero, but also to offer a cooperative, supportive and friendly work site and a livable wage for the dozen or so Mayan women who sewed for them. I don't know the fate of their unusual venture or whether they still hold their idealistic goals, however I salute these folks (Medicine Ball Footbags: http://www.medicineballfootbags.com ) for their willingness to at least attempt to "kick in a new paradigm". During my own idealistic phase I actually believed that footbag games could play a tiny part in a global "solution" -- to racism, to economic imperialism, to hatred and to war. I still use footbag regularly in my work teaching Massachusetts teenagers about non-violence, teamwork, communication skills - even sex ed! (http://www.valinet.com/~dbotkin/peerviol.html) But today, I'd be the first to admit it's a stretch to expect "world peace" to grow out of a kicking circle. So, is the proliferation of cheap, crocheted footbags good or bad for the Guatemalan people? Forgive me if you didn't want a polemic with your coffee. However, I have learned that if we are truly honest and accountable, everything becomes ultimately a "political" question, the food we eat, the words we type and the games we play. Who sews our sneekers, and how? This is not merely politically correct babble. Likewise, it matters how our sport of footbag gets taught and promoted, and to what end. Maybe you're just a kickin fool and just wanna shred in the sun, learn tricks and perform for a crowd. Maybe you don't wanna think about the problems of this screwed up world. I can appreciate that. But, if we're going to celebrate, promote, harness (and export) what we love most... if we're going to share our fine culture and values (footbag) with other peoples, we owe it to them and ourselves at least to consider the reality of theirs. In Peace, Daniel "Dog" Botkin Footbag Peace Initiative http://www.valinet.com/~dbotkin From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Apr 12 14:30:07 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA31001 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:30:07 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:30:07 -0700 From: owner-footbag@footbag.org Message-Id: <200104122130.OAA31001@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25356 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 08:43:00 -0700 Received: from mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.119]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28897 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 08:36:08 -0700 Received: from storefull-615.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-615.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.35]) by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id EC53054E for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 08:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from production@localhost) by storefull-615.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id IAA13070; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 08:36:01 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQsM8rhnIo+43zGTOJ0lq3U/rG8ywIULRh0q+OfSkzgpOtSbAXLVWZQyRg= From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:36:01 -0400 (EDT) To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] membership fees Message-ID: <22848-3AD32861-34@storefull-615.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Howdy- I know this has been tossed around before, but what is the current line of thought on having a membership fee that "kicks" back to our sport? I would gladly put up a 5 or 10 dollar fee. GF From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Apr 12 15:24:41 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA31194 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:24:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24262 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:51:24 -0700 Received: from mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.118]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03121 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:44:33 -0700 Received: from storefull-616.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-616.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.26]) by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id B5E032C2BB for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from production@localhost) by storefull-616.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id TAA05062; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:44:25 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRmAWu9HZq5LAk93+E1bIZJCEt84QIUPKTeP6mqsLsFsqFbUzc4ZZ+a+LM= From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 22:44:24 -0400 (EDT) To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Guatemala: Footbags Galore Message-ID: <7648-3AD27388-228@storefull-616.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hey all- Ted Huff said; "I'd like to think that as a sport's group, it's to our benefit to support those that support us, and not encourage those that don't." This makes a rather large amount of sense to me. And don't get discouraged. Continue to expose people to the sport, and educate them about it as much as possible. There are a lot of "hackers" out there that need to know how much better off they would be with better bags, and better shoes, and shorts instead of pants, and video footage, and...... btw, Tour de Michigan has been quite successful. We have had 12 people pumped on freestyle at the last 2 stops. We now have 17 people on our listserve, with 84 messages generated last month! This is easily twice the scene it was here in the grand ol' days (that is saying something). It is feeling like a rebirth of footbag in Michigan. Anybody interested in joining us in doing this, should! Take care, Greg From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Apr 12 15:25:14 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA31205 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:25:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25356 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 08:43:00 -0700 Received: from mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.119]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28897 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 08:36:08 -0700 Received: from storefull-615.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-615.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.35]) by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id EC53054E for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 08:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from production@localhost) by storefull-615.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id IAA13070; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 08:36:01 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQsM8rhnIo+43zGTOJ0lq3U/rG8ywIULRh0q+OfSkzgpOtSbAXLVWZQyRg= From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:36:01 -0400 (EDT) To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] membership fees Message-ID: <22848-3AD32861-34@storefull-615.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Howdy- I know this has been tossed around before, but what is the current line of thought on having a membership fee that "kicks" back to our sport? I would gladly put up a 5 or 10 dollar fee. GF From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Apr 12 15:28:54 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA31233 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:28:54 -0700 Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31230 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:28:53 -0700 Received: from llic.net (llic.net [209.125.90.2]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25781 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:21:53 -0700 Received: from [24.16.29.184] (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA23767 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:21:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: Host p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60] claimed to be [24.16.29.184] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.21 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <22848-3AD32861-34@storefull-615.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: <22848-3AD32861-34@storefull-615.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:21:45 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] membership fees Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 11:36 AM -0400 4/10/01, Greg Nelson wrote: >I know this has been tossed around before, but what is the current line >of thought on having a membership fee that "kicks" back to our sport? Greg, as I announced in January, there is a new International Footbag Players' Association being formed as we speak. We're close to making an announcement. That will be the official sanctioning body for the sport, the official membership organization for tournament competitors, etc. More later. This is a huge effort and we are not ready to make detailed announcements quite yet. Steve From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Apr 20 10:57:22 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11777 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:57:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11659 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:39:30 -0700 Received: from hercules.ihermes.com (hercules.ihermes.com [206.180.207.9]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06805 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:32:03 -0700 Received: from intouch (204-230.ihermes.com [206.180.204.230]) by hercules.ihermes.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f3KFVsa20757; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:31:55 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Chard Cook" To: Subject: [footbag] Footbag in the comics Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:35:26 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hey Footbaggers! Footbag has made it into the comic strips again. It's a great one from Betty that was published in one of Vancouver's newspapers. If only all women would be so willing. Check it out at http://www.FootbagCanada.com/sport.htm near the bottom of the page. Click on the image to see larger size. Inform, Inspire, Involve! Chard Cook CFA From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue Apr 24 13:07:23 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18886 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 13:07:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18727 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:18:25 -0700 Received: from web12104.mail.yahoo.com (web12104.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.24]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA11818 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:10:44 -0700 Message-ID: <20010424181039.54323.qmail@web12104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.202.254.8] by web12104.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:10:39 PDT Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:10:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Lavigne Subject: [footbag] New Shoe To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hello to all and a good 2001 season to all compettitors. I have recently purchased a new pair of net shoes called the NIKE Kingpin. Those of you who played net in the old Indestruc and Night Owl's will probably love these shoes, as they are of similar build. The surfaces are very flat, and the width of the sole at heel level assures good ankle stability for lateral movement. The shoe seems well built and solid, and should last longer than the Brooks Beast model, which seem to die young. On the downside they are a bit heavier than the Brooks model, and don't offer as much traction. Can't have everything...yet. Bob Montreal, Quebec. bob@footbag.org PS: They are OK to serve nice and hard... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Apr 27 08:09:00 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23757 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:09:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22346 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:19:58 -0700 Received: from myrealbox.com (mail.myrealbox.com [192.108.102.201]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12376 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:12:09 -0700 Received: from drcolossus [63.14.55.60] by myrealbox.com with Novell Internet Messaging System Web Client; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:03:35 Subject: [footbag] Footbag in other languages an on campuses From: Casey Jones To: footbag@footbag.org Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:03:35 GMT X-Sender: Novell Internet Messaging System Web Client MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <988322615.437drcolossus@myrealbox.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org First of all, does anyone know if there is a way to say "footbag" in Spanish (other than "footbag")? i would also be interested in learning any other footbag-related terms which exist in Spanish or in any other major languages. Second, i would like to ask which colleges/universities have good footbag scenes. i am mostly into freestyle and would like to attend a school with some other kickers. i live in Colorado and CU-Boulder is doing pretty well right now. i am not a huge fan of the weather in here though, miss the beach & the trees (no trees anywhere near Denver area - bleck!), and would really like to go out of state if my budget permits. Right now i'm a junior in high-school. Anyway, let me know. Thanks a lot for any info., - casey jones From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Apr 27 10:19:15 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23928 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:19:15 -0700 Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23925 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:19:14 -0700 Received: from llic.net (llic.net [209.125.90.2]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25633 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:11:22 -0700 Received: from I (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA05148 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:11:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: Host p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60] claimed to be I Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.21 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <988322615.437drcolossus@myrealbox.com> References: <988322615.437drcolossus@myrealbox.com> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:11:17 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] Footbag in other languages an on campuses Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id KAA23926 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 10:03 PM +0000 4/26/01, Casey Jones wrote: > First of all, does anyone know if there is a way to say "footbag" >in Spanish (other than "footbag")? i would also be interested in >learning any other footbag-related terms which exist in Spanish or >in any other major languages. You'll probably get lots of answers to this, but the "party line" is that we want to call "footbag" the same in every language. So, it's preferred that you call it "footbag" even in Spanish. There are two somewhat popular terms for it but given the variance in Spanish from country to country, you can confuse people if you use them. One is "futbolito" which in and of itself just sounds wrong because "futból" is itself a Spanish pronunciation of an English word, so why not use the English word? :-) The other is "fushibola" which is really very specific to one region. So, I prefer if you just call it "footbag". Steve From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri Apr 27 15:15:33 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA24481 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:15:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailjaya.creighton.edu (MailjayA.creighton.edu [147.134.2.126]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24456 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:58:50 -0700 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu (bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by mailjaya.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_18546)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05529 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:50:51 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:50:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Sean Wingert To: footbag@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Footbag in other languages an on campuses In-Reply-To: <200104271950.MAA24178@list.footbag.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by list.footbag.org id OAA24457 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Steve Goldberg wrote: > There are two somewhat popular terms for it but given the variance in > Spanish from country to country, you can confuse people if you use them. > One is "futbolito" which in and of itself just sounds wrong because > "futból" I can back Steve up on this one. My ex-Columbian girlfriend once told me that "futbolito" means foosball in Spanish (or at least in Medellin). I always call it "footbag" (se puede decir algo como "por lo menos, se llama footbag en los estados unidos") and then explain. You're probably going to confuse them at first no matter which language you use, but, hey, what's new? Buena suerte, Sean