From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed May 2 08:58:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00348 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 2 May 2001 08:58:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA30875 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 08:36:05 -0700 Received: from web12102.mail.yahoo.com (web12102.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.22]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA07188 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 08:28:00 -0700 Message-ID: <20010501152754.54536.qmail@web12102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.111.146.131] by web12102.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 01 May 2001 08:27:54 PDT Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 08:27:54 -0700 (PDT) From: John Leys Subject: Re: [footbag] Footbag in other languages an on campuses To: Casey Jones , footbag@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <988322615.437drcolossus@myrealbox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I hope that a third response to this *footbag* en espanol is not over kill, but... after a year playing, promoting, and teaching footbag in South America I have come to call it by its one and only name - footbag. It takes the spanish speakers out there a minute or two to get the pronunciation right, but after that everyone is atleast on the same page. As far as where to go to school and have ample opportunity to play freestyle... after seeing Ahren Gehrman hit *the beast* on Sunday down in LA I would have to say any university in San Francisco would be just fine. Chao ~ John __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed May 2 09:16:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00397 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 2 May 2001 09:16:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31773 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 22:56:37 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f107.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.107]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16482 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 22:48:29 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 1 May 2001 22:48:04 -0700 Received: from 24.165.156.26 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 02 May 2001 05:48:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.165.156.26] From: "Jeffrey Idica" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] 4 square??? Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 22:48:04 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 May 2001 05:48:04.0455 (UTC) FILETIME=[74B46F70:01C0D2CB] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Can anyone tell me the rules of four square [footbag] ??? I kina get it but i don't think i know all the rules of gameplay. If anyone can email me the rules to play, that would be nice. Jeff _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri May 4 14:54:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA04771 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 4 May 2001 14:54:46 -0700 Message-Id: <200105042154.OAA04771@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f From: Joe Crain To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] 4 square??? Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:35:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hello Everyone, I am pleased to announce that I have written up a comprehensive list of the rules of 4 square footbag as invented and played by Myself, Lon Smith, and Cody Roberts in the heart of Grass Vally California! You can find the rules here: http://www.visionpcservices.com/4square/ This is was quick job on my part, so if you find anything confusing please ask and I will try my best to help out! -joe From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri May 4 17:27:21 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05099 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 4 May 2001 17:27:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailcity.com (fes3.whowhere.com [209.185.123.188]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA27010 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 17:16:58 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Fri May 4 17:16:18 2001 To: footbag@footbag.org Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 17:16:18 -0700 From: "Hung Chang" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: hungchang@mailcity.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [footbag] 4 square??? X-Sender-Ip: 64.195.251.73 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Footbag 4 square !!!??? Did you guys run this by IFAB for approval? No luck? How about starting the International Footbag Four Square Association (IFoFoSA)? All kidding aside, my buddy PT actually invented this already for his kids in PE. Similar rules but spiking definitely not prohibited! But wait! There is more wacky games you can try: footbag butts up, footbag dash, footbag ultimate (almost kicked Lonya's face when playing this), footbag basketball (those crazy takraw players have a version of this), footbag raquetball (I invented this one), and the wackiest of all, footbag golf! (just kidding all you golf pros) Now where did I put my MaxiPad? Hung -- On Wed, 2 May 2001 15:35:49 Joe Crain wrote: >I am pleased to announce that I have written up a comprehensive list of the >rules of 4 square footbag as invented and played by Myself, Lon Smith, and >Cody Roberts in the heart of Grass Vally California! From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Sat May 5 00:17:55 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA05370 for footbag-outgoing; Sat, 5 May 2001 00:17:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailcity.com (fes3.whowhere.com [209.185.123.188]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA29321 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 17:57:47 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 17:57:17 -0700 From: "Hung Chang" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: [footbag] Training camp anyone? X-Sender-Ip: 64.195.251.73 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I'd like to do a training camp for net at Worlds this year. Maybe two separate ones on two separate days. One for novice/intermediate that covers the basics and one for intermediate/advance players that covers court strategy, techniques, etc. Any interests out there? I need some help in running it, too. Any footbag coaches out there want to help? Yves? Andy? For those net players that don't need any coaching because their skills are mastered to perfection, join us anyway. We could have a powwow to ponder where the future of net is going or share ideas on promoting the game. Hung p.s. I got some new ideas for that crazy "hungball" idea of mine, need more R&D and prototyping. Hopefully, I'll have something when the worlds roll around. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue May 8 22:37:11 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15253 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 8 May 2001 22:37:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from gigi.excite.com (gigi.excite.com [199.172.152.110]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31892 for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 19:03:58 -0700 Received: from spike.excite.com ([199.172.152.97]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010509020325.DKTD12263.gigi.excite.com@spike.excite.com> for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 19:03:25 -0700 Message-ID: <23323661.989373805111.JavaMail.imail@spike.excite.com> Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:03:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Vince Bradley To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] cheap last-minute airfare to western regionals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 209.48.222.18 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org hey hey hey being the procrastinator i am, i have recently been trying to book my flights to western regionals, and i found a cool pattern- most if not all flights to oakland or san francisco airports were pricey- too pricey for my new home-owning empty pocketed self. BUT, the prices to san jose are really cheap. at most half the price of the other fares. this may only be an east coast thing, but its definitely worth checking out. it doesn't seem to be limited to any particular airlines, though i've only checked out american airlines and continental airlines myself. on a specific note i did see that fares from montreal to san jose ( and even the other cities ) were less than 300 roundtrip. so i'm really hoping to get some bruising in from montreal while i'm in palo alto. take care, see you at westerns- vince From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri May 18 15:23:37 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA27870 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 18 May 2001 15:23:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from web12104.mail.yahoo.com (web12104.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.24]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA02571 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 06:12:55 -0700 Message-ID: <20010518131252.92640.qmail@web12104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.201.31.132] by web12104.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 18 May 2001 06:12:52 PDT Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 06:12:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Lavigne Subject: [footbag] Miracles To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi all, I have recently had the pleasure of playing some awesome footbag with one Patrick Asswad. For those of you who don't know, Patrick suffered a career threatening injury over 18 months ago. After having his knee rebuilt and undergoing rehab, Patrick is now returning to the courts, wearing a knee brace. Although such injuries are regrettable and we should collectively look into ways to solve such problems in our sport (most net sports don't allow plane-crossing for this very purpose), some good always comes from any tragedy. Patrick's determination is a credit to us all, and to athletes everywhere. This is why sports exist people, to give us the drive and motivation to overcome such obstacles, to make us into the kind of person who never doubts he will prevail, no matter the cost or the sacrifice. Having witnessed this kind of "miracle" twice now, I have no doubt that each has inspired the other, and that footbag has been the anchor that has kept both of them steady in the winds of adversity. High profile athletes may get all the cash, but these two guys have gained something more than money from their athletic career: strength. That's why I ask all of you who know Pat to support him with a word of encouragement if you can, here's mine for a start: HEUREUX DE TE REVOIR MOFO!!! BONNE CHANCE. thanks for your attention Bob bob@footbag.org From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed May 23 00:28:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA23510 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 23 May 2001 00:28:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29087 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 17:48:57 -0700 Received: from mailcity.com (fes-qout.whowhere.com [209.185.123.96]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA13105 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 17:48:18 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Fri May 18 17:47:26 2001 To: footbag@footbag.org Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:47:26 -0700 From: "Hung Chang" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: on X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) X-Sender-Ip: 64.195.251.73 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Bob wrote, "most net sports don't allow plane-crossing for this very purpose" (in the recent post whose subject was "Miracles") Since Bob brought up the much argued about topic of plane-crossing, I am wondering if the footbag net community have changed their opinion or at least reconsidered this issue over the past couple of years. For myself, I have been promoting the "illegal to cross the plane" idea for the past few years, mainly due to the experience of playing sepak takraw which have the "no-crossing of the plane" rule. It also seems like most supporters of the "no-crossing of plane" are net players that play takraw as well. My point is most net players that oppose the idea have never really experience playing with the no-crossing of the plane rule in effect which the general opinion is that it will detract from the experience of the game. I am just sensing that there is a chance this year to put this rule into action. I also wish this issue would be up to the players' decisions rather than IFAB's. Maybe put this rule through an "experiment period". So, what do you all think? Hung p.s. the "no-crossing of the plane" rule is the safest regarding player safety of all past plane rules suggested Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri May 25 10:24:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07669 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 25 May 2001 10:24:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23980 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 06:24:35 -0700 Received: from cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.78]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25421 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 06:23:40 -0700 Received: from tina ([63.11.185.15]) by cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3225); Wed, 23 May 2001 06:22:51 -0700 Message-ID: <001301c0e38c$0f4e7320$0fb90b3f@tina> From: "Tina Lewis" To: , "Hung Chang" References: Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:27:03 -0500 Organization: Microsoft Corporation X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2001 13:22:52.0211 (UTC) FILETIME=[78265030:01C0E38B] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org We used to have a no crossing the plane rule and after intense lobbying on the grounds that it makes the sport more exciting and is difficult to call, the plane was freed. Recognizing the danger we were able to compromise with the no contact rule. I believe its still dangerous and as a mixed player I don't particularly like to see plane crossing. (As a spectator its another matter :-). I am all for making the sport safer. Tina Lewis. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri May 25 10:25:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07706 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 25 May 2001 10:25:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24017 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 06:56:02 -0700 Received: from web12102.mail.yahoo.com (web12102.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.22]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA26452 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 06:55:07 -0700 Message-ID: <20010523135504.66576.qmail@web12102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.201.31.132] by web12102.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 23 May 2001 06:55:04 PDT Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 06:55:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Lavigne Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org There is one more thing that could be added to Hung's arguments, not only is banning plane-crossing safer for the players, it would also make all the complicated contact foul rules obsolete. They are confusing as it is, and before they are perfect they will be even more so. I think that a democratic process should be used to get the votes of all footbag.org members on this rule change, cause it is capital. We could also have a vote/discussion at the world's opening ceremonies (or closing) where people could campaign either way. My point is that this decision should not be left to the IFC members, as most of them have played their careers when plane-crossing was not a very widespread practice, and they tend to use the behind closed doors method of discussion. With todays more aerial game this issue is becoming more and more present, and injuries related to it will also rise in numbers. Have a great summer everyone. Bob ps: I happen to love plane crossing, I'm pretty good at it, but having played volleyball, badminton and some tennis I understand the need to remove this incredibly cool part of our game, cause it's never cool to hurt your buddy while playing, been there, it hurts. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Fri May 25 10:27:08 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07713 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 25 May 2001 10:27:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24952 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 18:15:07 -0700 Received: from www.cruzers.net (www.cruzers.net [209.165.193.6]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05537 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 18:14:05 -0700 Received: from [216.126.135.178] (c02-178.006.popsite.net [216.126.135.178]) by www.cruzers.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18160 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 18:14:00 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: jcaveney@popcorn.cruzers.net Message-Id: Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 18:13:56 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Jim Caveney Subject: [footbag] Calling all nets! (For Western Regionals) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hey Team, I have taken the lead on "net patrol" in order to gain assurance that we have enough nets for the 16th annual Western Regional Footbag Championships. We will need approximately 25 nets. I got commitments from the Bay Area players to bring about half of what we need. If you have a net available to you, and can bring it to Western Regionals, or can have someone else bring it, please reply to this e-mail now. The tournament's success depends on having enough nets and your help will be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much! Crash a net! JimmyC From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Sat May 26 08:39:14 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA16405 for footbag-outgoing; Sat, 26 May 2001 08:39:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07901 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 10:50:43 -0700 Received: from cpimssmtpu12.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu12.email.msn.com [207.46.181.87]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21959 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 10:49:40 -0700 Received: from tina ([63.11.186.135]) by cpimssmtpu12.email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3225); Fri, 25 May 2001 10:49:07 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c0e543$99c0e8e0$87ba0b3f@tina> From: "Tina Lewis" To: "Robert Lavigne" , References: <20010523135504.66576.qmail@web12102.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:53:24 -0500 Organization: Microsoft Corporation X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 May 2001 17:49:07.0728 (UTC) FILETIME=[FF204100:01C0E542] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I agree with Bob for the most part but a couple of things: I have played a lot when plane crossing has been allowed and most IFC players are current players. Those who don't play as much now listen and are very deferential to the current players. It is also difficult to call the crossing the plane rule. Usually you can feel when someone hits you (yikes!). IFC is not about "behind closed door discussions" (except when voting members on and off -for obvious reasons of sparing feelings etc.) . The meetings are entirely open to all players spectators, etc. - you just have to show up! I also listen to those who make their wishes known - like you have on the e-mail. I think a petition and/or public votes or polls would be very influential and helpful to the IFC members. Tina. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Sat May 26 08:41:23 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA16453 for footbag-outgoing; Sat, 26 May 2001 08:41:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08466 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 12:08:58 -0700 Received: from foundationcomputing.net (IDENT:root@donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26349 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 12:07:56 -0700 Received: from [207.160.174.20] ([207.160.174.20] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 500968 for footbag@footbag.org; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:58:14 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:08:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) From: Derrick Fogle To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20010523135504.66576.qmail@web12102.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org on 5/23/01 8:55 AM, Robert Lavigne at gonekicking@yahoo.com wrote: > closing) where people could campaign either way. My > point is that this decision should not be left to the > IFC members, as most of them have played their careers > when plane-crossing was not a very widespread > practice, and they tend to use the behind closed doors > method of discussion. With todays more aerial game OK, I'll take exception to this little jab at the IFC. Have you ever attended an IFC meeting? They always have been, and will continue to be, open to the public. Have you visited the IFC website? Most IFC members monitor this list, too, so don't think you can diss the IFC here without raising the hackles on a few people's backs. Many of the IFC members are older, more experienced players, true. But, I don't see anything inherently wrong with that. If you want 'new blood' on the IFC, well, we're waiting for people (like you) to indicate they want to be included. While net certainly isn't my strong suit, I've been there for the whole series of changes regarding the plane rule and the contact foul rule. At the time, there was overwhelming support for freeing the plane from the players themselves. I'm still around, and I see sentiment starting to change. Seeing a player injured in a joust is certain to make everyone re-evaluate the situation. The issue *will* be raised at this year's IFC meeting. If you want to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem, you need to get in touch with the Net committee chair. The IFC membership roster can be found at . Scott Milne is your net committee chairman. I still want to get some kind of poll going, too, so I can get a better feel for what players want. I'm on the IFC and I'm listening. So there's no reason to have the attitude that 'we need to go around the IFC'. It just isn't true. And to do so helps keep footbag looking like a disorganized cadre of hackers instead of presenting footbag as a legitimate organized sport. -Derrick From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Sat May 26 08:43:27 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA16464 for footbag-outgoing; Sat, 26 May 2001 08:43:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16059 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 07:50:42 -0700 Received: from comet.pacifier.com (comet.pacifier.com [199.2.117.155]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10929 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 07:49:36 -0700 Received: from oemcomputer (ip11.charleston4.sc.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.243.11]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with SMTP id f4QEnAi03492 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 07:49:11 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris & Beth Siebert" To: Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 10:47:51 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I think that crossing the plane helps showcase the athleticism in footbag net and makes the sport unique. I can't recall ever seeing a player seriously hurt by someone crossing the plane, but it's probably happened. I like the current rules. One problem with a "No-crossing" rule might be that it will require more use of net judges. Very often on tight sets a player will barely cross the plane while spiking, but I would feel uncomfortable as a player making that call. Also, I suspect that one reason takraw players cannot cross is because they often have their heads and bodies near the net for blocks and sets. Footbag players rarely charge in head first :) Conan -----Original Message----- From: owner-footbag@footbag.org [mailto:owner-footbag@footbag.org]On Behalf Of Hung Chang Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 8:47 PM To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) Bob wrote, "most net sports don't allow plane-crossing for this very purpose" (in the recent post whose subject was "Miracles") Since Bob brought up the much argued about topic of plane-crossing, I am wondering if the footbag net community have changed their opinion or at least reconsidered this issue over the past couple of years. For myself, I have been promoting the "illegal to cross the plane" idea for the past few years, mainly due to the experience of playing sepak takraw which have the "no-crossing of the plane" rule. It also seems like most supporters of the "no-crossing of plane" are net players that play takraw as well. My point is most net players that oppose the idea have never really experience playing with the no-crossing of the plane rule in effect which the general opinion is that it will detract from the experience of the game. I am just sensing that there is a chance this year to put this rule into action. I also wish this issue would be up to the players' decisions rather than IFAB's. Maybe put this rule through an "experiment period". So, what do you all think? Hung p.s. the "no-crossing of the plane" rule is the safest regarding player safety of all past plane rules suggested Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue May 29 11:48:00 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA32661 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 29 May 2001 11:48:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26827 for ; Sun, 27 May 2001 11:06:49 -0700 Received: from VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (relais.videotron.ca [24.201.245.36]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27709 for ; Sun, 27 May 2001 11:05:39 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([24.200.47.41]) by VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GE0A9C03.V63 for ; Sun, 27 May 2001 14:05:36 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 14:05:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) From: Martin Cote To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org It's interesting that Bob bring this topic (is that Bob or Hung? not sure). After all these years I felt in danger only once or twice while going for a set near the net and Bob was on the other side of the net. He's the only one that i know who can literally punch the bag with his foot way past the net. And if your foot is anywhere near then you just fall down spinning to the ground. I'm sure though it's not Bob intention to injure anybody. But when you have the talent to go over the net and punch that thing like he does, you just go for it. Most of other plane crossing blockers that i can think of, just try to tip the bag. So it's only when they're out of contol and fall onto their opponent that i can see the danger. And still i've rarely seen it. And i agree with Chris about the endless argument about who did cross the plane when there's no net judge. There would be more of them and they would be even tougher to call than those contact fault. So he's my rule; it's ok for everybody to cross the plane except for Bob. Martin From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue May 29 11:48:57 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA32672 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 29 May 2001 11:48:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31231 for ; Mon, 28 May 2001 15:34:22 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f88.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.88]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25653 for ; Mon, 28 May 2001 15:33:09 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 28 May 2001 15:20:36 -0700 Received: from 64.228.185.42 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 28 May 2001 22:20:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.228.185.42] From: "Yves Archambault" To: footbag@footbag.org Cc: yevez@hotmail.com Subject: [footbag] European Championships ride needed from Berlin or Frankfurt Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 22:20:35 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 May 2001 22:20:36.0288 (UTC) FILETIME=[6B1A8400:01C0E7C4] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi Everybody, Yves Archambault here I must say that this message is mostly for German players from Frankfurt or Berlin but anyone who has a good idea or a hint is welcome. Emmanuel and I have a possibility to fly to Frankfurt or Berlin July 18th and we would like to know if anyone from these cities would have room in their vehicle to go to Prague. We would also need a place to crash until departure and would like to play some net to stay shark...excuse me sharp! Please let us know very soon as there's a special price and only a few seats left. The price to go directly to Prague is just insane. Thank you all Yevez _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue May 29 11:49:27 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA32689 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 29 May 2001 11:49:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA32271 for ; Tue, 29 May 2001 07:35:50 -0700 Received: from cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.84]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02204 for ; Tue, 29 May 2001 07:34:35 -0700 Received: from tina ([63.11.187.23]) by cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3225); Tue, 29 May 2001 07:33:57 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c0e84d$0aba9620$17bb0b3f@tina> From: "Tina Lewis" To: References: <001301c0e38c$0f4e7320$0fb90b3f@tina> Subject: [footbag] Re: time outs in Footbag Net. Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 09:38:30 -0500 Organization: Microsoft Corporation X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 May 2001 14:33:57.0783 (UTC) FILETIME=[651B7270:01C0E84C] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi all, After seeing time-outs being called just as someone is serving and even after contact with the served bag, I checked the rule - it says nothing. The bag is officially in play once it is hit so its clear a time out shouldn't be called at that point, but I think we might need a rule to clarify. What about having to call the time out before the server calls the score or before it leaves the server's hand?? I think that having to call it before the score is called protects the server and the receiver. The receiver calling the time out may think of the call before the server hits the bag but the words may not make it out til the server hits the bag. Any other ideas for a good clear rule? Any reasons not to have such a rule? Thanks, Tina. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue May 29 11:51:35 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA32703 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 29 May 2001 11:51:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32352 for ; Tue, 29 May 2001 09:55:13 -0700 Received: from web9804.mail.yahoo.com (web9804.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.214]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA09252 for ; Tue, 29 May 2001 09:53:57 -0700 Message-ID: <20010529165354.76842.qmail@web9804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.234.223.147] by web9804.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 29 May 2001 09:53:54 PDT Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 09:53:54 -0700 (PDT) From: James Holt Subject: [footbag] San Francisco Ride/Roomie To: footbag@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Dear fellow shredders, Soon I will be leaving for San Franciso and I am hoping to pick a few people up on the way. If you want to go to the Worlds and dont mind going alittle early Im your man. I will be leaving on July 2nd to attend the S.F. school of circus arts. I have been very interested in the circus for quite sometime and I have not seen footbag in a circus, Im looking for a few people with ideas for a good routine for a circus act. And I AM LOOKING FOR A ROOMMATE. If you know any1 who is interested or maybe yourself please contact me. I am planning for some hard footbag practices and I hope to not be alone during them. If you want to go to the Worlds and dont mind going alittle early Im your man. I will be leaving from Raton, New Mexico. If you have any questions please ask. later James __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu May 31 16:25:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08914 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:25:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03211 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 02:36:04 -0700 Received: from mailcity.com (fes2.whowhere.com [209.185.123.102]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA31490 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 02:34:42 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Thu May 31 02:34:03 2001 To: footbag@footbag.org Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 02:34:03 -0700 From: "Hung Chang" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: en X-Sent-Mail: on X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) X-Sender-Ip: 64.195.251.73 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Derrick Fogle wrote: >OK, I'll take exception to this little jab at the IFC. Derrick, I think Bob was just saying that on some issues, it's cool to let the players make the decisions rather than IFC. As far as "going around the IFC", I am quite aware of the generation gap problem between the IFC members and younger players. Many don't feel that IFC represents them in any way. I believe partly to blame is the undemocratic process in picking IFC members. The fact is IFC members are not picked by the players. In the past six years as a net player, I really don't hear too much stuff regarding IFC yearly proceedings, goals, etc. I also get a feeling that there is an attitude amongst IFC members and veteran players that somehow the net game is perfected and the rules are set in stone. If I suggest some new rule, like this plane rule, I really doubt that any IFC member is going to go out and experiment with it. New ideas will take time to sink in, open forum such as is one is an great way to exchange different ideas, players can take their TIME to experiment with different ideas and variations and can decide for themselves whether it is something they like or not. If they feel that they don't have any voice in the decision, they won't bother experimenting. And Derrick, regarding the polls, save your energy, most net players don't seem to participate in these polls. And to all you IFC members, don't think of this as a personal attack, think of it as constructive criticism, I know all of you put in a lot of your personal time to footbag, it would be nice if we are all on the same page. More thoughts on the no-crossing rule. clarification on the no-crossing of the plane rule - contact the ball on your side of the net only, you can follow through to the other side. Oversets - this is probably the most significant effect of the rule, giving the oversets to the defense, might increase rallies. If you overset, you loose it to the defense, you don't get to stick your leg over the net to whack it. As I said before, this is how takraw does it, seems to works well for them. Puts a premium on set control, riskier to set closer to the net. 'enough typing for now, my wrist is hurting. Hung Chang p.s. thumbs up to everyone that showed up for western, watch out for that Tall Bob at worlds, he is serving like a madman this year. Ssaahhh!!! Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu May 31 16:31:25 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08962 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:31:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA04244 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 05:38:32 -0700 From: "Eric Dargent" Received: from lh00.opsion.fr (lh00.opsion.fr [212.73.208.226]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA04914 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 05:37:08 -0700 Received: from 10.1.1.6 [10.1.1.6] by lh00.opsion.fr; Thu, 31 May 2001 12:41:44 GMT Send-By: 194.2.8.212 with Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 95) To: Subject: [footbag] Swiss Championships Notes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:41:44 GMT Message-id: <200105311241.2c08@lh00.opsion.fr> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id FAA04245 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Oh yeah ! I wrote « oh yeah », but I really mean « ooooooooooh yeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaah » I went last week-end to the Footjam/Swiss Championships in Zürich and it rocked ! It was the bomb ! wicked ! dope ! If you wanna know what you missed, read on, it's a bit long but still not exhaustive... First of all, the event was so well organized, close to perfection : all taken care of by Planet Footbag Zürich, as well as the Footbag Conspiracy people from Berlin , and of course initiated, prepared and supervised by Jan Zimmerman…After having organized last year’s European Championships in Paris, I totally know how much work that is, and how hard it is to make things run smoothly… Accommodation for players was in an anti-atomic shelter (apparently, they have lots of them all over Switzerland and can stick the entire population in them if necessary – sounds like heavy paranoia, especially since it is a neutral country, that hasn’t been involved in a war for decades), right in the middle of the city and very close to the 2 venues where the tournament took place ; there was cheap food & drinks available for players at all time : there was always a couple volunteers at the Planet Footbag booth, to answer your questions and fulfill your needs…The competition itself was perfectly organized, with absolutely no delays whatsoever; it all happened at the exact scheduled time… Of course, they also got very lucky with the weather, warm & sunny all week-end, and that counts too (here again, I know a bit what it is, cause I got non-stop rain for the European Open), but it was a fair enough reward for their hard work. Now, the players who attended the event played also their part in its great success : First, for a national competition, it’s been quite an international event : they were around 5 dudes from Czech Republic, around 10 Germans, 7 proud French representatives, Bogo came all the way from Hungary (and that was a hell of a long trip), 2 Americans, Justin and Mika came from Finland as members of the Jury…and I’m sure I forget loads of people… Second, the level is just skyrocketing, especially in freestyle, with crazy up&coming young players who could already, with some of the more experienced players like Jan or Mika, form some kind of European BAP. Guys like Kahu from the Basel Bootfägers or Alecz from Prag (sorry, dude, not sure about the spelling !) picked up footbag 8 and 9 months ago and are hiting insane tricks like blurriest or flurry ! ! And some other young dudes didn’t show up, like that kid from Prag who won this year’s Todexon Cup in Prag, or Panini from Paris who you’ll soon discover (hopefully at this year’s Euros in Prag). Freestyle is very seriously taking off here, and it’s all good (I’m just afraid they’re gonna hurt themselves with their crazy scorpion’s tails !). The elder players are not dead though : Mika and Jan didn’t play much, but enough to make it clear they’re still on top (I was so impressed by Jan’s smooth style) and the winner Hoening (from Frankfurt) who, after an insane dropless (or almost) routine, took off his shoes and did almost as good for about 20 seconds… Finally, we had such a great girl competition ! The girls from the Basel Bootfägers rock big time ! They also picked up freestyle after last year’s Euros in Paris, where they met Queen Sam, then went on tour all summer with my friends and I (=Zion Footbag Association, that split up since, but that was just to suggest that maybe we taught them a tiny winy bit of what they can do today ! ! !). They all threw amazing routines, smooth, with very few drops, and shit like clipper double leg over (for the winner Isabel). Big up to Nadine who sprained her ankle 2 days before the event, but can hit symposium paradox mirage upon request (I was told)! This Swiss girl crew has also warmly welcome for the event Claire from Paris, Anne from Aachen (Germany) and the European Champ Jule from Berlin…Total of 9 competitors (I believe), with an amazing level. We also had capoiera, break-dance & yo-yo demos that were all dope, we had a lot of good weed (that you can buy and smoke freely in this beautiful country)…that was just a sick sick sick footbag event ! Long life to footbag ! Thanks a million to Jan & crew ! Big up to the crazy new players ! Peace to the old school & all footbaggers ! ---éRiC aka the hAcktivist------ericd@footbag.org---Grenoble ______________________________________________________________________________ ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet ! vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP... http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu May 31 16:32:29 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08974 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:32:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05137 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 07:47:28 -0700 Received: from web12107.mail.yahoo.com (web12107.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.27]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA10351 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 07:46:05 -0700 Message-ID: <20010531144603.92509.qmail@web12107.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.202.254.9] by web12107.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 31 May 2001 07:46:03 PDT Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 07:46:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Lavigne Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi everyone, First, I never meant to diss anyone in IFC. The need for a ruling body is clear. Who's in it doesn't really matter as long as they are smart people, which I happen to know is the case. I have always known that meetings were open, but I find it hard to attend them during my annual vacation at world's. What I suggest is that we the footbag community can do more to assist the IFC in their role. The discussions on this list are great, but lack a little structure to be used as hard interpretable data. The IFC could publish a poll to this list about all player related issues that will be discussed at the next meeting. Interested players can then print the form, fill it out and hand it in at world's or by e-mail. I would think that such poll results would probably make the IFC members life a lot easier, as they then only need to implement the results, rather than debate certain issues themselves. Although this method cannot apply to all areas of IFC's role, it would be a good way to solve many touchy issues. As for my opinion on the plane crossing: happy jousting everyone!!! Bob Montreal, QC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu May 31 16:41:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09072 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:41:59 -0700 Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09069 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:41:58 -0700 Received: from llic.net (llic.net [209.125.90.2]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09867 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:40:34 -0700 Received: from I (dhcp-24-16-28-196.corp.home.net [24.16.28.196]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA05240 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:40:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: Host dhcp-24-16-28-196.corp.home.net [24.16.28.196] claimed to be I Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.21 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:40:23 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 2:34 AM -0700 5/31/01, Hung Chang wrote: >Derrick, I think Bob was just saying that on some issues, it's cool >to let the players make the decisions rather than IFC. The IFC *is* the players. Especially after the IFPA gets going in full force, where the IFC will become a committee of the players' association, and its members will be elected (indirectly) by the IFPA membership (which is you and every registered player). >Many don't feel that IFC represents them in any way. Again, it has not until now been a representative body. It will be part of IFPA, which *will* be representative. Just wait. :-) >I also get a feeling that there is an attitude amongst IFC members >and veteran players that somehow the net game is perfected and the >rules are set in stone. Where on earth did you get that idea from? The IFC is the "brain trust" if you will for the sport. Every sport needs something like that. Else, the whims of a few vocal minorities can radically change the sport in ways that are inconsistent with the original intentions or desires of the bulk of the players. This is the way it is with all sports, and we are no different. Of course there will be dissent, disagreement, conflict, etc., but in the end you need some body of people to vote and make decisions. That is what the IFC is. Its membership and the lack of representation (though arguably not nearly as bad as you present it to be) will be rectified with the changes we plan to impose as part of the IFPA starting in 2002. >If I suggest some new rule, like this plane rule, I really doubt >that any IFC member is going to go out and experiment with it. New >ideas will take time to sink in, open forum such as is one is an >great way to exchange different ideas, players can take their TIME >to experiment with different ideas and variations and can decide for >themselves whether it is something they like or not. If they feel >that they don't have any voice in the decision, they won't bother >experimenting. All things take time. This isn't about the IFC; this is about cultural changes in large groups. They happen at their own pace, not because one vocal player (or even a few) wants them to happen. Of course the IFC is just a volunteer organization, and the processes for rule changes are ill defined and poorly optimized, but we're doing as good a job as we can by at least *having* a forum and a set of processes defined. I emplore you and anyone who is interested in helping shape the sport to join IFPA at Worlds this August and put yourself up for election to any position you see fit to occupy. There is no grand conspiracy; just a lot of well-meaning people who honestly don't need to be villified (even with apologies) the way I've witnessed in this discussion. >And Derrick, regarding the polls, save your energy, most net players >don't seem to participate in these polls. Factoid: most of the members of footbag.org are freestylers. Only 6% are net players. Here's the breakdown from the member poll: 6% net players (103 members) 34% advanced freestyle players (559 members) 57% circle-kickers (949 members) 1% play other footbag sports (32 members) Dunno if that really means anything, but I'm happy to put up as many polls as people want. :-) Steve From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu May 31 17:17:28 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09529 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:17:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07714 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 13:37:50 -0700 Received: from web13404.mail.yahoo.com (web13404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.62]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA30999 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 13:36:26 -0700 Message-ID: <20010531203624.99555.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.189.14.12] by web13404.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 31 May 2001 13:36:24 PDT Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 13:36:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Josh Bast Subject: [footbag] Southeast Tournaments To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hello all. My name is Josh Bast and I've been kicking about 9 years with an emphasis in freestyle. Ever since I moved to Clemson, South Carolina for grad school, I have noticed that there are very few tournaments in this area of the country. I may be wrong, but it seems like there is just very few people in the Southeast interested in footbag. For the sake of drawing everyone out, I would like to get a tournament organized but I've never done anything like this. I actually haven't even competed in about 3 years since moving from Missouri so things may be run much differently now. I was wondering if someone with hosting experience could help me out. Does anyone know of a significant club in NC, SC, GA, or FL that might help host? The only one I have found is the Memphis Footworks in TN. Thanks for your time. Josh Bast (Formerly of Lake Ozark Footbag Tribe and FEET) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu May 31 19:07:02 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA10317 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 31 May 2001 19:07:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10040 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 18:27:00 -0700 From: "Jamie Lepley" Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16914 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 18:25:35 -0700 Received: from WreckMaster13@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id z.23.c70a423 (5715) for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 21:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web44.aolmail.aol.com (web44.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.5]) by air-id04.mx.aol.com (v78_r3.6) with ESMTP; Thu, 31 May 2001 21:25:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:25:00 EDT Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <23.c70a423.284848ed@aol.com> Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Well, I guess ill give my 2 cents also. I've only been competing for 7 years, 3 in open. Our motto on the subject is "Balls Deep". I feel that the rule as it is should stand. This is an aggressive sport, not physically aggressive, but attack aggressive, if you can understand what I mean. The control over the net is what make this sport beautiful, your not out to kick your opponent in the head or make them twist there knee, but these thing happen. Yeah, injuries are occuring, but arn't most of them occuring away from the net, not even on the joust.( i could be wrong on that) Yeves knee was in the middle of the court tring to change direction very quickly. I thought. Its hard enough to call a close contact foul if the bag is right at the net, this would, and will make it even harder, unless you have judges all the time. It the player can jump over the net 2 feet spike the bag down and land on his own side of the net, SHi@ that is what makes this sport what it is today... The contact foul rule is all that you need. Heck this is what made Team Net Wrecker what we are today. We are finally starting to kick descent, I finally got the rest of the team to not be affriad of the net. Just my 2 cent later "Team Net Wrecker" The Wreckmaster Jamie Lepley