From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed Jun 6 14:43:53 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24760 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:43:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14307 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 06:07:34 -0700 Received: from cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.83]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11718 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 06:06:08 -0700 Received: from tina ([63.11.185.54]) by cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3225); Fri, 1 Jun 2001 06:05:35 -0700 Message-ID: <001601c0ea9c$38803d20$36b90b3f@tina> From: "Tina Lewis" To: , "Hung Chang" References: Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:10:22 -0500 Organization: Microsoft Corporation X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jun 2001 13:05:36.0321 (UTC) FILETIME=[8C6DCB10:01C0EA9B] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Just a note about the "set in stone" concept. We have to have rules and we need to have good reasons to change them. It detracts from our sport and the legitimacy of it to change the rules back and forth time after time. Net is no longer "experimental" we have been competing in it for over 20 years now! In the early years it was quite disconcerting to practice under one set of rules and then go to a tournament where the rules were different. For example when I make the trip up to a big tournament in the Bay area or Montreal to play the World Champions, I'm already at a disadvantage from not playing with those players all year, is it fair or encouraging to "outsiders" to spend the time, money and effort to show up only to find the rules are different there? Its about fairness and having some consistency throughout the world. If there is a good reason that improves the sport, the changes can and should be made but changes need to be well thought out and have some purpose and then be implemented in a way that is fair to all the players everywhere. Tina. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed Jun 6 14:44:38 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24771 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:44:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19880 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:11:13 -0700 Received: from mailcity.com (fes-qout.whowhere.com [209.185.123.96]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA18684 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:09:45 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Fri Jun 1 19:09:33 2001 To: footbag@footbag.org Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 19:09:33 -0700 From: "Hung Chang" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: en X-Expiredinmiddle: true Reply-To: hungchang@mailcity.com X-Sent-Mail: on X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) X-Sender-Ip: 64.195.251.73 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Tina wrote: >Net is no longer "experimental" Hmmmm... This is where I strongly disagreed. Net's twenty year history is a blink of an eye compared to other sports, it's even less significant considering the low number of participants that have played the game. If you look at foot-volley games through out the world, you can see that people have came up with very different concepts of the "ultimate" foot-volley game. Here is a few thoughts that will give you an idea of my vision of the future of net. 1) think takraw, our two best players have crossed over to the "dark side" and came back changing perceptions of what the net game could be. There could be a lot ideas to be adapted from the game of takraw, if players take the time to understand the game, rather than treating takraw as our nemesis. It's all about kicking, right? 2) inexpensive synthetic oversize balls. Taught novice net players at Western this year. How many you think walked away with a $30 net bag? How many do you think is going call up Flying Clipper and buy one? You know how many shanks I saw from players in shoes that I would dread to play in? Why do p.e. teachers (you know who) don't bother to teach net in school, but takraw instead? Why is there the lame rule in the book about 2.5 inch max size and "pellet-filled" bag? Are we going to be stuck with the hacky sack idea forever? More on IFAB, the supposedly "brain trust" of our sport. Do we seriously need all this time and effort to be put into this "international" organization? Does IFC really need more members? How many people do we need on the net committee, when there is only 103 registered net player? Many other alternative sports does just fine without the need for worldwide governing bodies, international representatives, and 50 page rulebooks. Face it, we are a small time sport, there isn't gonna be professional footbag athletes, there is really no need for all this effort in organizing and running some international committee that serves very little purpose. Don't try to make the game into something more than it is. There is a lot of ideas regarding changes in footbag that haven't been tried. We don't need a committee to be make decisions of all ideas that come along for the rest of us. Stand back and let the changes occur at the grass root level. The bureaucracy just slows everything down. Hung Chang 'gotta get back to typing up my Footbag Manifesto on my manual typewriter. :-) Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed Jun 6 14:46:32 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24785 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:46:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19555 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 05:30:00 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f59.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.59]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23879 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 05:28:20 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 05:27:48 -0700 Received: from 64.228.185.28 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:27:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.228.185.28] From: "Yves Archambault" To: WreckMaster13@aol.com Cc: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:27:47 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jun 2001 12:27:48.0255 (UTC) FILETIME=[EE3562F0:01C0EDBA] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I can't agree more mister Lepley, if the players are just a bit self conscious of the potential damage they can cause and really go for the bag there are no problems to dance over the top of the net. Everybody knows that I'm not a plane crossing specialist (Except I've had 3 fouls called on me in the US open finals, thanks to Steve Dusablon again :-) ) but I really think it is one of the things that is closely related to the identity of our sport. By the way Hung, Footbag is not Takraw nor should it try to copy everything in it. This rule was debated already with a lot of arguments on both sides and believe it or not there have been a lot of people capable of crossing that plane in the past like the grand master Kenny Shults, Bart, Randy just to name a few. Guidelines: Players go for the bag in a display of acrobatic skills to take it faster and higher than their opponents. Of course there's a risk but if most players act as gentlemen in that department we shouldn't have huge problems. There are a lot of other parts of the game that can cause injuries too and if we'd list them all we would just stop playing. By the way Jamie you are right about my knee injury it didn't happen close to the net, same thing is true for Pat. Keep on kickin' net Yevez From: "Jamie Lepley" To: Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:25:00 EDT Well, I guess ill give my 2 cents also. I've only been competing for 7 years, 3 in open. Our motto on the subject is "Balls Deep". I feel that the rule as it is should stand. This is an aggressive sport, not physically aggressive, but attack aggressive, if you can understand what I mean. The control over the net is what make this sport beautiful, your not out to kick your opponent in the head or make them twist there knee, but these thing happen. Yeah, injuries are occuring, but arn't most of them occuring away from the net, not even on the joust.( i could be wrong on that) Yeves knee was in the middle of the court tring to change direction very quickly. I thought. Its hard enough to call a close contact foul if the bag is right at the net, this would, and will make it even harder, unless you have judges all the time. It the player can jump over the net 2 feet spike the bag down and land on his own side of the net, SHi@ that is what makes this sport what it is today... The contact foul rule is all that you need. Heck this is what made Team Net Wrecker what we are today. We are finally starting to kick descent, I finally got the rest of the team to not be affriad of the net. Just my 2 cent later "Team Net Wrecker" The Wreckmaster Jamie Lepley _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed Jun 6 15:03:44 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA24845 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:03:44 -0700 Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24842 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:03:43 -0700 Received: from llic.net (llic.net [209.125.90.2]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18869 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:01:58 -0700 Received: from I (dhcp-24-16-28-235.corp.home.net [24.16.28.235]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA07277 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:01:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: Host dhcp-24-16-28-235.corp.home.net [24.16.28.235] claimed to be I Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.21 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:01:52 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 7:09 PM -0700 6/1/01, Hung Chang wrote: >Do we seriously need all this time and effort to be put into this >"international" organization? Does IFC really need more members? Hung, clearly you aren't aware of what exactly IFPA is and how it will work. This is something we will be announcing next week, so stand by for that. Until then, understand that you are misconceiving my last e-mail. I didn't say IFC would have more members. I said IFC would, for the first time ever, be *representative* and elected by the body of footbag players. This is a big change; it's not final, because we need IFC to adopt this at the meeting when we kick of IFPA at Worlds, and there would be a transition period, most likely consisting of the initial IFC membership being grandfathered in, but up for election at a later date. This is not going to happen over night. But you have to understand that, without the concept of sanctioning and standardization, with a representative body voting on rule changes and the like, there's no way the sport can grow. I urge you to withhold replying until you read the IFPA announcement next week. >How many people do we need on the net committee, when there is only >103 registered net player? The net committee is only 5 people today; it would likely only be 5 people on the new IFPA rules committee (still called IFC). You simply haven't chosen to pitch your ideas to those 5 people; not my problem. :-) >Many other alternative sports does just fine without the need for >worldwide governing bodies, international representatives, and 50 >page rulebooks. You have got to be kidding me. Do you really believe this? >Stand back and let the changes occur at the grass root level. That's fine; people (yourself especially :-)) are welcome to branch of and create their own sport. If you want to compete at IFPA tournaments, going forward, you'll have to play by our rules. But you're welcome (and encouraged) to hold your own events, with your own rules, and see who shows up. Thanks for listening. :-) Steve From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed Jun 13 12:22:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14670 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:22:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25247 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:31:54 -0700 From: Jamie Lepley Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26303 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:30:09 -0700 Received: from WreckMaster13@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id z.c3.11a44acb (15880) for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 20:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web40.aolmail.aol.com (web40.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.1]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v78_r3.8) with ESMTP; Wed, 06 Jun 2001 20:29:33 -0400 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 20:29:32 EDT Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hung, this is exactly what we dont need, NEGATIVITY If your want to do it your way fine, start something new or add it as an event at a tourny, but please; Hung Chang writes: Are we going to be stuck with the hacky sack idea forever? .....Hung It Lasted all these years, most attempt at companies, sports, themes, dont last ever 25 years. (ie. the hung ball) sorry i had to do it.... More on IFAB, the supposedly "brain trust" of our sport. Do we seriously need all this time and effort to be put into this "international" organization? Does IFC really need more members? How many people do we need on the net committee, when there is only 103 registered net player? .....You know, hung, how many foobag players does it take to change a lightbulb? It doesn't matter... the fact of the matter is we need more people to get interested in helping, weather it be on a committee or not. The IFAB is doing what its needs to be doing, it is listening to people complain,(i do my fair share) and making descions....... Many other alternative sports does just fine without the need for worldwide governing bodies, international representatives, and 50 page rulebooks. Face it, we are a small time sport, there isn't gonna be professional footbag athletes, there is really no need for all this effort in organizing and running some international committee that serves very little purpose. Don't try to make the game into something more than it is. There is a lot of ideas regarding changes in footbag that haven't been tried. We don't need a committee to be make decisions of all ideas that come along for the rest of us. Stand back and let the changes occur at the grass root level. The bureaucracy just slows everything down. Again. Negativity Later The WreckMaster Team Net Wrecker Jamie Lepley From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed Jun 13 12:25:01 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14706 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:25:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25460 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 20:35:33 -0700 Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (asteroid.pacifier.com [199.2.117.154]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05918 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 20:33:47 -0700 Received: from oemcomputer (ip165.laurel.md.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.235.165]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with SMTP id f573XIM29021 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 20:33:19 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris & Beth Siebert" To: Subject: [footbag] State of Footbag Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 23:31:40 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org The recent footbag discussions have helped me to think more clearly what I like about footbag. I mean the game itself, aside from all the related bonuses like terrific people and an excuse to travel to new places. What I like about the game itself is both the unique nature of the activity, and the joy of experiencing flow through a small, focused object. I think that the inherently difficult nature of footbag is part of its allure. Just about anyone can learn how to play it, but the highest levels of play in all the footbag disciplines boggle the mind and tax the patience of the average person. I recently have seen several TV ads featuring people doing basketball freestyle skills. While I am impressed with the rhythm and control of these guys, I think that it is nothing compared to today's footbag freestyle artists. I have also seen bicycle freestyle on the X-Games and such, and, true, it's amazing, but footbag is more amazing if only for the superior athleticism of the players. If the word is not out, it will be soon: freestyle footbag is exploding in a lot of places, new and old. Footbag net, I believe, is one of the hardest games in the world. Every other footsport allows the use of the body above the knee. Every other footsport uses a bigger ball. Every other net sport disallows crossing the plane of the net. And competitive footbag net is extraordinarily difficult to break in to. It requires access to good players, the time and money to spend training, and the mental toughness and dedication to lose to more experienced players over and over again. That's why there are only a few hundred people in the world who can really play. Yes, takraw is played by more people, and spectators are more numerous. The ball is easier to see, and huge spikes are required to end the rallies. By contrast, the dink is a powerful weapon in footbag net, but its subtle excellence is lost on most spectators. Nevertheless, footbag rallies can be beautiful. Do we need to make the sport more like takraw? Or do we need to maintain and nurture it's niche? True, we've borrowed from takraw, but let's not forget that spike serving and reverse toe spikes have been in footbag a long time now (e.g. Jimmy Caveney, Scott Cleere, Kenny Shults, Dennis Ross, Yves Archambault, Martin Cote). We're getting close to two decades of high-level play now. I feel that footbag is really starting to develop a rich heritage and prolific talent base. My goal is to revolve my life around footbag, and thus reach harmony and nothingness simultaneously. But I digress... Suffice it to say that I love this game, and I am excited to be along for the ride!!! From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed Jun 13 12:26:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14726 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:26:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA25982 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 01:36:51 -0700 Received: from mserve1.acs.ucalgary.ca (mserve1.acs.ucalgary.ca [136.159.34.51]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15645 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 01:35:04 -0700 Received: from ucalgary.ca (mserve2.acs.ucalgary.ca [136.159.34.55]) by mserve1.acs.ucalgary.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 712A8119C for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 02:34:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from unknown(24.67.22.77) by mserve2.acs.ucalgary.ca via smap (V2.0) id ZZ308332; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 02:34:34 -0600 Message-ID: <00a801c0ef2c$e063a4c0$4d164318@cg.shawcable.net> From: "Russell Arsenault" To: References: Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 02:35:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hung Chang wrote: "Face it, we are a small time sport, there isn't gonna be professional footbag athletes, there is really no need for all this effort in organizing and running some international committee that serves very little purpose. Don't try to make the game into something more than it is." hey now! cheer up there hung, just a few comments, i've been reading this discussion for a while now. they focus primarily on hung chang's recent arguments net footbag is a difficult sport for most individuals. and i agree that upon making the introduction of the sport to passers by or casual soccer players, the pellet filled golf ball sized bag is going to shy many away from giving the game a few kicks or two. but.. hockey uses rock hard rubber, so does baseball, golf, lacrosse, squash, pool, haha. my point being is that as players get better, they accustom themselves to the faster tools of the trade. net footbag rules are fairly simple. it can't bounce, you can only use your feet, and if you miss or shank the bag, you have to bend over and pick it up yourself! i don't see them changing much, although there is always room for creativity. although the pedagogical aspects of using larger synthetic balls or wicker balls is useful, just like in all sports the audience is looking for the most extreme, most alienating and artistic form that's out there. and my eyes remain peeled on the status quo. now to the plane crossing rule! :) there are many unique aspects in the physical demands of net. lots of hard off-kilter planting, body torquing and stretching going on. and i'm sure their are a huge number of injuries in net that nobody hears about. net injuries are as unpublicized as the sport is. kinesiology students would find a vacant thesis or two lying in this department. i'm for the plane crossing rule, but i'm also for a section on the footbag.org website that deals with the precautions one should take in playing. i.e. playing on consistent flat surfaces, footwear, stretching and warm-up, how to properly bail or roll out of a disaster, neck and shoulder stretching etc. we net players don't have much to grasp onto in the name of education, however i imagine that most players are athletically inclined enough to know at least a thing or two luckily :) oh yes and hung, you may be bitter at the dismal future of the sport, but when i'm rich i'm going to package, market and brand the thing to death, and dictate that there should be computers inside the netbag so lazy couch potatoes can figure out what the heck is going on.. you better enjoy its underground nature while you can! mwhahaha -russ From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed Jun 13 12:27:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14743 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:27:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26505 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 07:44:06 -0700 Received: from cpimssmtpu11.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu11.email.msn.com [207.46.181.86]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27559 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 07:42:19 -0700 Received: from tina ([63.11.185.133]) by cpimssmtpu11.email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3225); Thu, 7 Jun 2001 07:41:46 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c0ef60$9efc2f00$85b90b3f@tina> From: "Tina Lewis" To: , References: Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:43:01 -0500 Organization: Microsoft Corporation X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jun 2001 14:41:47.0091 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA8DEA30:01C0EF5F] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I agree with Steve's response 100% - its fun to change the rules and experiment, etc. The point is tournaments and getting people to travel and invest time and money in events. There has to be some consistency. I did find Hung's comment about novice net players to be true. The cost of the net set and the bag, etc. is a problem. And if you lend one out and it gets lost....... " 2) inexpensive synthetic oversize balls. Taught novice net players at Western this year. How many you think walked away with a $30 net bag? How many do you think is going call up Flying Clipper and buy one? You know how many shanks I saw from players in shoes that I would dread to play in? Why do p.e. teachers (you know who) don't bother to teach net in school, but takraw instead? Why is there the lame rule in the book about 2.5 inch max size and "pellet-filled" bag? Are we going to be stuck with the hacky sack idea forever?" My comment: Let's see them! I was ready to buy any kind of net bag at Westerns (Great Tournament) and there were none.... and if you want to play takraw, play takraw - nothing wrong with that - some of us even play non-foot sports and that's o.k. too. Thanks for helping those novices Hung, it was great to see a huge contingent of them out there at Westerns. Tina. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed Jun 13 12:34:37 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14850 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:34:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24877 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:10:02 -0700 Received: from press.ripcity.com (press.ripcity.com [157.238.145.132]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19265 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:08:17 -0700 Received: by press.ripcity.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:02:36 -0700 Message-ID: From: Steve Dusablon To: "'footbag@footbag.org'" Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:07:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I have just a few words on this subject, all brief and to the point. If you don't like crossing the plane of the net while playing footbag net, and you do like the no plane crossing rule in Takraw... PLAY TAKRAW! If you feel that you are a fragile person and are liable to be hurt while jousting for a bag... STAY IN THE BACK COURT AND SET! If you feel that our wee little 2 and 1/2 inch pellet bag is a bit too challenging for you... BUY ONE OF THOSE SILLY WICKER THINGIES AND KICK THAT! Basically, stop messing with my favorite sport. If you don't like it how it is, don't play. As far as the IFAB / IFC subjects are concerned, I am still eagerly awaiting my first payment into the NEW Players Association! After I start making contributions, monetarily or otherwise, THEN I will start whining about what they are doing. Until then, Kick and be Merry Steve Dusablon From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Jun 14 22:23:48 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29290 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 22:23:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16712 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:39:19 -0700 Received: from mailcity.com (fes3.whowhere.com [209.185.123.188]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id QAA28217 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:37:09 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Wed Jun 13 16:36:35 2001 To: footbag@footbag.org Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:36:35 -0700 From: "Hung Chang" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: en X-Expiredinmiddle: true X-Sent-Mail: on X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) X-Sender-Ip: 64.195.251.73 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org This whole topic have drifted off into two issues, one on the plane issue (which in reality is a minor issue that will mainly affect the style of play) and the other issue regarding getting changes through in our sport and its relationship to IFAB. First the plane issue. FYI, I enjoy going "balls deep", and yes, it is amazing when Seba reaches over the net to poach, and yes, the current rule works quite well and not really all that dangerous. BUT, think about giving the "no-crossing" plane rule a try, puts a premium on set control, can't overset and expect your partner to chase after it, don't have to perform a "nessasary contact" on the opponent reaching over, possibly prolonging rallies, advantageous for players that can hit shots "off the net", advantageous for those guys that can't reach. Now back to changes and IFAB, I stand by my point that IFAB needs to be representative. Until then, do not claim that IFAB represents the players. I am looking forward to Steve's announcement of turning IFAB into a representative system. Regarding the synthetic ball idea, there is two main aspect surrounding the use of a synthetic ball. One is having a ball that is ready to use and possess consistent rebound characteristics from ball to ball. This idea is pretty much adopted by every other sport except us. (Note: the Proton was a synthetic bag that was ready to use and consistent between bags, however nobody liked its "feel") Another aspect of a synthetic ball is the size. How big the ball is suppose to be will be eventually be decided by the players, but mainly a bigger ball will open up the use of the toe surface as a more consistent shot. The synthetic ball idea will happen with time as more players adopt the idea, I can tell you that the two best net players are into it and others are working on prototypes. The advantages are obvious. Hung Chang Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu Jun 14 22:25:33 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29335 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 22:25:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27120 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:27:09 -0700 Received: from web11502.mail.yahoo.com (web11502.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.47]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id RAA28538 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:24:55 -0700 Message-ID: <20010615002455.11395.qmail@web11502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.103.45.216] by web11502.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:24:55 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:24:55 -0700 (PDT) From: David Bernard Subject: Re: [footbag] No plane crossing (new rule?) To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Greetings All! Well with all the hub-bub going on about the plane crossing rule, I of course felt obligated to chime in on this discussion. I should emphasize that this is absolutely the most exciting and visually appealing aspect that our game has to offer. I would also like to point out that this is NOT Takraw, so why we insist on always trying to be “like them” is a complete and utter mystery to me. So for the purpose of this discussion, can we try and be “footbag players” and not wanna-be Takraw stars. So with my opening rant out of the way, let’s take a look at a few things. The major point of concern I seem to be hearing is that “crossing the plane” or “jousting” somehow makes our sport inherently dangerous. I honestly cannot think of anything further from the truth. As the Dr., I have personally been involved in 1000s of high-flying jousts. Injury total-ZERO. In my 10-year “career,” I have witnessed at least 10,000 spectacular jousts from my peers. Injury total-ZERO. Sports of any nature are going to have some type of physical risk involved with them. Are we going to ask IFC to legislate that all major intersections from the host hotel to the tournament site be closed during pre-registration time? Of course not. That’s just plain silly. Same as trying to legislate “complete safety” into a sport such as Net Footbag. The current rule structure surrounding “plane breaking” is quite adequate. I am aware that there have been some injuries due to jousting. I am not saying there haven’t. However, I have personally been witness to far more injuries that had absolutely nothing to do with “crossing the plane” or “jousting” and more to do with turf conditions, not stretching properly, people scrambling for errant sets, backpedaling too quickly and playing 900 matches in one day. What it boils down to in my opinion is that taking one of the most exciting, athletically challenging and visually appealing potential plays out of the game in the name of safety, isn’t really going to do much about the overall rate that players are injured while playing. We’re talking about roughly the same odds of being injured because of “crossing the plane” as driving to the Circle K mart for the after tourney 6-pack. Some of you may know that I am the co-founder of a long standing, highly regarded footbag club called North Portland Renegades. (Shameless plug, I know.) I thought as a summary, I would share what we truly believe to be the 5 most fundamental parts of Net: 1st: The serve (Without it, you’re not going anywhere fast.) 2nd: The set (The foundation of all rallies.) 3rd: THE POWER TO CROSS (Most exciting element in the game.) 4th: The spike (WEAR it!) 5th: The DIG!!! (Rinse and repeat until you’re worn out!) This is how our credo has read for over 5 years. Truly the ability to elevate and “cross the plane,” strike the bag, and return without hindering your opponent or touching the net is one of the single greatest rushes in the game of Net. Why anyone would want to kill this aspect of the game really just stuns me. So to wrap things up, I say there is no need to change the basic way this rule works. One thing I can relate with is when someone is flying around the net, floundering, with no apparent regard for where the bag or opponent may be. Perhaps something along the line of ongoing or repeated contact fouls carrying a harsher punishment then just a side out or point. We already have yellow/red cards in the game. Maybe this could be expanded into the field of contact fouls, where for instance, after “X” contact fouls in one game, a yellow card is issued. I think that the idea of being too zealous and undisciplined above/over the net carrying the consequence of possibly costing a game instead of a simple side out would act as a much bigger deterrent until true precision is mastered in the art of “crossing the plane”. Well I’ve carried on much longer then I thought I would. This is passionate to the Dr., and I would hate to see our beloved sport lose one of the biggest draws and appeals it has. Dr. Flyhigh -Joust With Honor- ===== That will end your Dr. appointment for today. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed Jun 27 14:07:04 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07504 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:07:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31787 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:56:54 -0700 Received: from mailcity.com (fes.whowhere.com [209.185.123.154]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id UAA29261 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:54:36 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Fri Jun 15 20:53:53 2001 To: footbag@footbag.org Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:53:53 -0700 From: "Hung Chang" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: [footbag] Nike looking for alternative sports to film X-Sender-Ip: 64.195.251.73 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Chris Seibert mentioned a recent Nike ad with some trick basketball dribbling. In fact, Nike is running a bunch of ads featuring alternative sports, part of their "just play" campaign. They are actually looking to shoot more ads. Freestylers? The ads featured on the website are awesome, flatland bmx, longboard, mountainboard, breakdancing, etc. http://play.nikeplay.com/play/videos.jsp (check under film schedule, they are looking for people to show off their skill in NY, LA, Chicago) Hung Chang Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed Jun 27 14:07:40 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07509 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:07:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19938 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:32:22 -0700 Received: from web12104.mail.yahoo.com (web12104.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.24]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id FAA29693 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 05:22:31 -0700 Message-ID: <20010625122231.74196.qmail@web12104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.201.31.178] by web12104.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 05:22:31 PDT Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 05:22:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Lavigne Subject: [footbag] 2001 Montreal tournament To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hey Everyone, Regarding the 2001 Montreal tournament, here are a few confirmed names making the field quite interesting: Patrick Asswad (making his official debut after knee surgery...GO PATRICK!!), David Butcher, John Leys, Rob Adams, Andy Ronald, John Heyduck, Chris Siebert, Jason Langis, Pat Keehan, Alexis Deschenes (making a long awaited return to his homeland, there are rumors he will defect after the tournament...), You!!!, and the whole local crew will be out there making this one of the strongest net tourneys this year. The freestyle tournament is held the following weekend at Les Foufs, as our budding scene and several visitors will put on quite a show. Also expect a strong intermediate field in both net and freestyle. And to those who think footbag in north america is on the decline, just come and check out these events... And besides, with cheap accomodations, cheap food and drink with plenty of sunshine, Montreal is as good a travel value as Mexico... see y'a there Bob Montreal bob@footbag.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed Jun 27 14:16:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07575 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:16:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-footbag@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03751 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 06:19:23 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f167.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.167]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA20043 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 23:09:23 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 23:08:52 -0700 Received: from 203.98.21.42 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 06:08:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [203.98.21.42] From: "Brendan Murray" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] love to play Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:08:52 +1200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jun 2001 06:08:52.0959 (UTC) FILETIME=[A40106F0:01C0FECF] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org My name is Brendan Murray and I love to play footbag. But i'm getting stuck on moves and don't know much. If any one in Wellington NZ could help or send info about events or other stuff relating to footbag please mail me. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.