From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed May 1 20:18:34 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA27252 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 1 May 2002 20:18:34 -0700 Received: from press.ripcity.com (press.ripcity.com [66.178.131.132]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA08793 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 09:31:40 -0700 Received: by press.ripcity.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Wed, 1 May 2002 09:34:10 -0700 Message-ID: From: Steve Dusablon To: "'footbag@footbag.org'" Subject: Re: [footbag] Consecutives events at Worlds Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:31:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org This is just a weird subject. There seems to be a lot of responses and I have a few feelings on the subject(s). As far as concecutives goes, I have only competed in this event once (last year) and to be honest I was only doing it for the possibility of adding to my Overall points. Going into it I definitely did NOT give it the credit it deserved as far as the skill, concentration, and endurance involved. I did horribly. I had something like 3 drops and my pace was incredibly slow throughout. I definitely walked away from the event with a new respect for the folks who can succeed at the top-most levels in the consecutive event. Unlike certain aging, canadian, world doubles champs, I am not so ready to just throw away this event simply because it won't make the cover of sports illustrated. I agree that it is not the most exciting and/or eye catching event as far as spectators are concerned but there are people who "actually practice" concecutives and my hat goes off to them. This event has never been at the forefront of the World Championships but it has been included for several years out of respect for those who enjoy the challenge. I don't feel it is right to just toss an event like this simply because it isn't the eye candy that Freestyle or Net is. There are many sports that aren't amazing to look at, yet take amazing skill and literally years of practice. Say, billiards for instance. It isn't "extreme", it doesn't involve risking life or limb, and at the top most levels it isn't exactly exciting to watch (in my opinion) yet it takes an immence amount of skill, perhaps a decade or 2 of daily practice, and every year the World Championships are shown on one ESPN channel or another. These events are not a big crowd draw at Worlds and the actual player attendance may be on a downswing but I feel that it is only a matter of time until some new consecutives "master" shows up, raises the bar, and gets everyone involved in the event again to accept a new challenge. Consecutives has always been in the darkest parts of the Worlds schedule anyway. Stuck at some ungodly early hour in the morning, somewhere in the middle of the week, at the bottom of the pile under everything else. At each of the World Championships I have been to (not many actually) I have never noticed it being a scheduling problem or getting in the way of any of the "big time" events so I personally see no good reason to throw them away. At best the entire 5 minute timed event is overwith in half an hour, I do not see the problem. Same with DDOP, it takes a minimum amount of time, is a great skill teacher, and is a great warm-up for net events. I say leave it be until either the player participation drops to zero or grows again as people continue to push the envelope. As far as Golf goes I have an incredibly biased opinion here but I take exception to people who think this game does not take skill. I also think it is ironic that the greatest portion of golf detractors are never seen near a footbag golf course. I personally refuse to accept the opinion that "golf sucks" from someone whom I have never even see try it, much less take some time to actually try to get good at it. Golf is a great Worlds event in my opinion. It is a chance for all players of all different skill levels to get together, kick some bags, compete, and generally mingle with fellow kickers from all over the world. Your level of competitive involvement is up to you but I think it is a great mixer for all players from all different disciplines of our beloved sport. Heck I might never even talk to a freestyler at Worlds unless it is on the golf course. (maybe a little exaggeration there but you know what I mean) Finally I just want to reiterate, if these events are going to die due to lack of player participation, let them die. Don't kill them because we THINK they MIGHT die. Just my useless opinion, Steve From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu May 2 06:56:46 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA19760 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 2 May 2002 06:56:46 -0700 Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA01741 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 22:12:01 -0700 Received: from [192.168.2.32] ([12.250.116.15]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020502051159.KRJJ5896.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@[192.168.2.32]> for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 05:11:59 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1309 Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 00:11:56 -0500 Subject: Re: [footbag] Consecutives events at Worlds From: Scott Davidson To: Footbag Listserv Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Hi! On 5/1/02 11:31 AM, "Steve Dusablon" wrote: > I agree that it is not the most exciting and/or eye catching > event as far as spectators are concerned (consecutives) The suspense of watching a good solid attempt, especially when there are two or more top players present who are making a go at it... There is something to it. Remember that *everyone* relates to consecutives on a very basic level. The first question people ask, even after they watch me do nothing but tricks, is "how many can you kick in a row." There is some basic intrinsic connection that footbag has with consecutives. Back in '85 - '86 - '87 at worlds (nationals in '85) they did marathon attempts, lasting well over 8 hours, and a counting / judge coordination nightmare for Bruce and Greg (from an event directors standpoint, I wouldn't have wanted the job of coordinating counters for watching 3 different players go 5-9 hours at a time) Fogle is the only multi-hour consecutives monger that is still active (that I know of, well besides Ted Martin, who is still in great shape). That is where the shortened events emerged from (Bruce, correct me if I am wrong). Also "back in the day", there was a HUGE respect for, and a large number of players who aspired to be overall champion (is it time for a Worlds Director to offer an "individual" overall title, that doesn't incorporate doubles events?) and for good reason, this too, played into the development of where Consecutives has ended up at worlds. 1) they are short events, easy to run and manage, and yet still "consecutives" events (a GREAT idea from an event directors standpoint)... 2) there were always a singles and a doubles consec's event at worlds, and there still are (DDOP and T5) two... And 3) one consecs event favors net players and the other favors freestylers (okay, argue away on that one, but I stand by it). I have a hard time getting rid of it at worlds. If there was a big hoopla around the finals of it, then maybe more would compete (and certainly when/if the sponsorships ever start rolling in [materializing], we have something more to "sell", i.e. Another event to put a sponsor ownership onto) > and at the top most levels it isn't exactly exciting to watch > (in my opinion) But can you agree there is suspense? And from a layman perspective, putting 5 consecs players who go for a 3 or 5 minute timed rally with no drops, they can really relate to that... It is worth watching, they might say to themselves, "I could do that if I tried". That same average person might see freestyle, watch three tricks and be so confused that they just keep going, and say to themselves "I could never do that." Consec's has it's merits, it just hasn't been exploited. > It is a chance for all players > of all different skill levels to get together, kick some bags, compete, and > generally mingle with fellow kickers from all over the world. Your level of > competitive involvement is up to you but I think it is a great mixer for all > players from all different disciplines of our beloved sport. Heck I might > never even talk to a freestyler at Worlds unless it is on the golf course. > (maybe a little exaggeration there but you know what I mean) Have you tried four-square? I find it to be 10 times more fun than golf has become (not that golf isn't fun, it is, just that once you make it competitive (especially finals at worlds), everyone is saying "shhh" and they get all serious and for me, it gets tedious and therefore no longer so much fun) With four-square, I can play when I want, I don't have to wait, but it is always different and with a great mix of people, it drills basic skills, you can actually break a sweat doing it (or at least stay very warm and be able to just jump back into a freestyle circle or onto a net), everyone has fun with it, you can do it in a small area and near net/freestyle encampments (rather than at some remote park at some ungodly hour), it is everything you described above and more. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE golf and I recommend that everyone at least try it sometime (a great accuracy contest, and it has MANY merits), I would just rather play four-square these days, and for many the same reasons that I once was an avid golfer (I even dreamed of footbags that would act like disc golf discs and roll left or right, etc... ). As one of the few who competed last year, I had to chime in on this one. And on the Novice and Intermediate level, consecutives events are ABSOLUTELY integral, and most never be considered dropped (PI), but rather should be actively promoted (Consec's is a big thing for tracking progress, and we should have some really neat web based tools for this coming through the IFPA pipeline... Watch for it, and support the IFPA!) See ya! Scott. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue May 7 15:17:40 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA04703 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:17:40 -0700 Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA15180 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 20:19:23 -0700 Received: from 1cust240.tnt4.manassas.va.da.uu.net ([63.26.198.240] helo=Office) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 173TbN-0002gQ-00 for footbag@footbag.org; Thu, 02 May 2002 20:19:22 -0700 Message-ID: <005b01c1f251$34cbf8a0$0000a398@Office> From: "Chris and Beth Siebert" To: Subject: Re: [footbag] Consecutives events at Worlds Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 23:18:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Hi All! I have been happy to hear the opinions on this subject. It's been a good discussion. First, I stand by my argument that these events utilize Worlds resources. They require registration, organization, directors, sites, time, awards, and usually prize money. I think, as far as Worlds goes, less might be more. Let's remember...Worlds is a huge event. Most clubs in the world would not even consider hosting Worlds. Anything we can do to streamline the event will make it more attractive to potential hosts. Also, cutting any events from Worlds does not mean that they die. For example, local tournies can and do have various consecs events. World records are still attempted outside of Worlds. The Beaver Open still uses old-school net rules. New games, such as four-square, are played - just not at Worlds. I don't think we should hold onto events just because they've "always been" at Worlds. If intermediate players need a consecs event to relate to, we should offer more events at that level. If anything, open timed consecs is waaaaay more intimidating than freestyle or net. And who has ever been inspired by DDOP? (My apologies here to Andy Linder.) Conan From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue May 7 15:18:33 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA04815 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:18:33 -0700 Received: from press.ripcity.com (press.ripcity.com [66.178.131.132]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA32007 for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 12:03:11 -0700 Received: by press.ripcity.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Thu, 2 May 2002 10:19:35 -0700 Message-ID: From: Steve Dusablon To: "'footbag@footbag.org'" Subject: Re: [footbag] Consecutives events at Worlds Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:16:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Scott is correct about the suspence thing. I watched Kenny do a 5 min. world record attemt here in Oregon at OMSI. There was a large crowd of spectators (around 100 or so...) and Kenny made I believe 3 attempts. The suspence was intence. On his final attempt he was on pace to beat the current record by a kick or two when he got a little wild and the bag got away. The whole crowd moaned but cheered the attempt and as Scott says, the tension was definitely there. This type of crowd seems unlikely at worlds however. There seems to be a slight lack of competitors that can actually challenge the world record at this time. I think if at every consecs event there was a forseeable shot at a world record being broken there would be spectators. Even if it was largely just those of us in the footbag community, there would be something special added to the event if it was a legit shot at the record each time. I have never tried 4 square. If I had to choose, as things stand, I would choose golf but there seems to be a huge uprising of 4 square enthusiasts and I intend to try it as soon as I can. See y'all soon, Steve From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Sun May 12 17:07:22 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA25310 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 12 May 2002 17:07:22 -0700 Received: from web10605.mail.yahoo.com (web10605.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.169]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id PAA29398 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 15:39:16 -0700 Message-ID: <20020508223912.34348.qmail@web10605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.119.34.39] by web10605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 May 2002 15:39:12 PDT Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 15:39:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Hardin Subject: Re: [footbag] Consecutives events at Worlds To: Yves Archambault , footbag@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org I have heard alot of people dis consecutives, although i haven't been hacking for long, i think the consecs is one of the coolest events. Not only does it exemplify the basics of footbag, it is also something strenuous and requires endurance and stamina. It is something that everybody starts out with, and i think is something that everybody enjoys. Keep at Worlds. Chris Hardin From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Sun May 12 17:08:07 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA25388 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 12 May 2002 17:08:07 -0700 Received: from bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com (bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com [205.145.1.251]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA29979 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 13:57:38 -0700 Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 10 May 2002 16:56:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88044565B1@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Riefer, Robert" To: "'footbag@footbag.org'" Subject: [footbag] Wow.. a net video! Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:55:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org I was just at: http://www.footbag.org/worlds2002/emmanuelPT.html While there, I viewed a vid of Emmanuel doing a roll spike. I've seen him do them countless times in person, but was extremely happy to see video of his skills. Net vids similar to freestyle vids would be excellent for the state of Footbag Net. Just as freestyle needs to be seen to be understood, net cannot (in general) be fully appreciated without actually seeing the awesome athleticism it takes to get that darned little ball over the net. OK.. Enough of me stating the extremely obvious.. Just glad to see some net footage.. :-) Bob Riefer Philly Footworks From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Sun May 12 17:10:09 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA25570 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 12 May 2002 17:10:09 -0700 Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA31687 for ; Sun, 12 May 2002 10:16:50 -0700 Received: from jsymons ([12.240.65.131]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020512171649.YVZD25765.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@jsymons> for ; Sun, 12 May 2002 17:16:49 +0000 Message-ID: <002d01c1f9d8$193461c0$6401a8c0@Home> Reply-To: "Julie Symons" From: "Julie Symons" To: Subject: [footbag] Consecutives and Golf at Worlds Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 10:11:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Greetings, It's great to see these interesting discussions regarding the golf and consecutives events at Worlds. And its about time that the Worlds Organizers chime in. We will not be offering golf, consecutives or overall at Worlds this year. Instead we'll be focussing all of our efforts on Freestyle and Net. You'll see a lot more emphasis this year on how we present this sport to the public. The number of entrants in these categories has declined over the past few years. We believe these events' time at Worlds has come, at least for this year. For golfers this is not to say that there won't be any footbag golf competition during the same week as Worlds. Some of the local footbag golfers are thinking about organizing a golf event. As for consecutive events, we believe that these events still have their place in footbag and footbag competitions. But we believe these belong at the local level, and mostly for beginners. If someone is serious about making a world record attempt at Worlds, check the IFPA Rules of Footbag for the procedures for making it official. Yours truly, Julie, Lisa and Eric Co-Producers, 2002 World Footbag Championships worlds@footbag.org From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Sun May 12 17:19:30 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA26265 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 12 May 2002 17:19:30 -0700 Received: from I (dhcp212.llic.net [209.125.90.212]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA26262 for ; Sun, 12 May 2002 17:19:29 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88044565B1@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> References: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88044565B1@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 17:19:23 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] Wow.. a net video! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org At 4:55 PM -0400 5/10/02, Riefer, Robert wrote: >OK.. Enough of me stating the extremely obvious.. Just glad to see some net >footage.. :-) That video's actually from http://quebec.footbag.org/multimedia/filet.html which is the source of information for footbag.net (until we finish updating footbag.org). Of course, it's in French, but that shouldn't be a huge problem. :-) And for your reference, the net video on quebec.footbag.org has been up for almost two years. Also, note that I've had a standing offer to host any video anyone wants to put on footbag.org for 8 years now. So far, only 6 people have ever contributed video, and none of them (except for quebec.footbag.org) have ever contributed net video. Go figure. Steve From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu May 16 11:53:16 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA31852 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 16 May 2002 11:53:16 -0700 Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA30829 for ; Sun, 12 May 2002 18:21:56 -0700 Received: from 207-172-69-39.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com ([207.172.69.39] helo=HPAuthorizedCustomer) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #10) id 1774XC-0007aQ-00 for footbag@footbag.org; Sun, 12 May 2002 21:21:54 -0400 Message-ID: <022501c1fa1c$02020680$2745accf@cable.rcn.com> From: "Matt Quint" To: References: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88044565B1@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> Subject: Re: [footbag] Wow.. a net video! Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 21:17:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Steve says, "Also, note that I've had a standing offer to host any video anyone wants to put on footbag.org for 8 years now. So far, only 6 people have ever contributed video, and none of them (except for quebec.footbag.org) have ever contributed net video. Go figure." I hope we can use this comment to inspire the creation of just such a video! Again, in my opinion, one of the next things that could help all of us promote the sport of footbag would be a 'demo CDR .vcd' of all the discplines of footbag, packed with a little information too :-) These would be readily playable in DVDs or on a computer, and cheap and easy to copy and distribute - just taking a page from the 'jamband' world here, and the explosion of skate boarding and other X-games sports which got exposure for themselves through the spreading of vids. Right now I can offer time and money, but, unfortunately not any vids to support this effort. Can we get some conversation here to rally around this idea? Maybe a project for this upcoming Worlds event? Matt Q@footbag.org From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu May 16 11:54:08 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA32023 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 16 May 2002 11:54:08 -0700 Received: from web20603.mail.yahoo.com (web20603.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.161]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id RAA17882 for ; Mon, 13 May 2002 17:09:03 -0700 Message-ID: <20020514000903.78195.qmail@web20603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.62.153.17] by web20603.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 May 2002 17:09:03 PDT Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 17:09:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Dat Phan Subject: [footbag] How did you discover footbag? To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Hey List, I was wondering how everyone else got introduced to footbag. It seems to me you have to stumble upon it, unlike sports like football and basketball that are practically forced upon you growing up. I remember when I was about 9 or so (I'm 20 now) and I was walking through my neighborhood. I saw a few old hippies playing hacky sack on a lawn. At the time I did not know what hacky sack was but I remember how stupified I was at how they were using their feet to keep an object aloft. Somewhere in the '90s, the kooshball craze hit. I think I had 5 of them. I even got the official kooshball book. In that book there was a section on how a kooshball could be used as a hacky sack. Soon I learned how to do inside kicks. I think my personal best back then was 8 kicks. Some time later when I was at my cousins house watching some sports channel, I think it was ESPN, I saw some sort of footbag competition. I saw amazing aerial kicks in Net competition and they also showed some freestylers. They showed a series of clips of people doing around-the-world and the like. It was the most amazing thing I had ever seen in my short life. I grabbed some small stuffed animal and tried to mimic what saw. It seemed impossible but I was determined to learn how to do it. Soon after I bought a footbag and from then I was hooked. I'm attending college now and pretty soon I'll have a club going. Hopefully I get some more people kicking. "Nickname-less" Dat From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu May 16 11:55:28 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA32256 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 16 May 2002 11:55:28 -0700 Received: from medlicott.panasas.com ([65.194.57.194]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA26815 for ; Mon, 13 May 2002 19:10:20 -0700 Received: from medlicott.panasas.com (IDENT:welch@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by medlicott.panasas.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17171 for ; Mon, 13 May 2002 19:10:19 -0700 Message-Id: <200205140210.TAA17171@medlicott.panasas.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5.9 (CVS) 05/06/2002 with nmh-1.0.4 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Brent Welch is available From: Brent Welch X-URL: http://www.panasas.com/ X-Face: "HxE|?EnC9fVMV8f70H83&{fgLE.|FZ^$>@Q(yb#N,Eh~N]e&]=> r5~UnRml1:4EglY{9B+ :'wJq$@c_C!l8@<$t,{YUr4K,QJGHSvS~U]H`<+L*x?eGzSk>XH\W:AK\j?@?c1o; Mon, 13 May 2002 19:13:13 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 13 May 2002 19:12:11 -0700 Received: from 67.227.229.102 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 May 2002 02:12:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.227.229.102] From: "Tricia George" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] US Open Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 02:12:11 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 May 2002 02:12:11.0504 (UTC) FILETIME=[C1E0B700:01C1FAEC] Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Hi Folks, Becca and I are trying toget a feel for how many people plan to attend the US Open Footbag Tournament on June 29, 30. The details are posted on footbag.org. we are in the process of ordering shirts, trophies, and planning for accomodations,etc, and are really unsure of how many to expect. If you think you are going to come, will you send Becca or I an e-mail and let us know. We just want to make it the best it can be! Thanks, Tricia From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Thu May 16 11:58:15 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA32663 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 16 May 2002 11:58:15 -0700 Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA06195 for ; Wed, 15 May 2002 10:49:17 -0700 Received: from [4.3.96.201] ([4.3.96.201] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.8) with ESMTP id 1261683 for footbag@footbag.org; Wed, 15 May 2002 12:42:35 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:02:50 -0500 Subject: [footbag] Consecutives and Golf at Worlds From: Ida Bettis Fogle To: Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Okay. Any other old timers want to join me in a chorus of: It's the end of the Worlds as we know it It's the end of the Worlds as we know it It's the end of the Worlds as we know it And I feel retired Hmmm...guess those of us who have practiced and competed in consecs set the bar too high and intimidated everyone . Sorry you all find it too difficult. Of course I used to express a few sour grapes about golf myself because I wasn't good at it, but I finally realized the error of my ways. Just because I spent too much time digging around in the poison ivy for my bag didn't mean I had to take the sport away from others who were good enough at it to make it exciting and enjoyable. I hear a lot about a decline in the number of net players too. I wonder if eventually we'll only have freestyle? Oh, of course a few years ago it was freestyle that was on the downward trend and there was talk about net only. I also remember similar reasoning for dissing women's events - not enough women competing. Interesting to watch the ebb and flow. Oh well, if I'm realistic I have to admit there was very little chance I'd ever make it to another worlds anyway, given life circumstances. Now I don't have to fret about missing out since there would be no motivation for me to go compete. I was trying to keep my typing fingers out of this thread, but couldn't stop them after reading this announcement. peace, love and hippie stuff, Ida, world record holder in a former event, and apparently on the fringe even in a fringe sport, but who really does appreciate the hard work of the tournament directors and realizes they have good (though mumble mumble something about misguided) intentions and as an afterthought wonders how many folks would show up for the World Footbag Golf and Consecutives championships if it was held in a year or two. -- Ida Bettis Fogle "Shy rights. Why not pretty soon?" From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue May 28 15:00:49 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA20989 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 28 May 2002 15:00:49 -0700 Received: from web10002.mail.yahoo.com (web10002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.38]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id VAA11926 for ; Thu, 16 May 2002 21:45:46 -0700 Message-ID: <20020517044542.7335.qmail@web10002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [152.163.207.46] by web10002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 May 2002 21:45:42 PDT Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 21:45:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Frost Subject: Re: [footbag] How did you discover footbag? To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org >>Hey List, I was wondering how everyone else got introduced to footbag. It seems to me you have to stumble upon it,<< Ok, this might tell my age but i'm going to say it anyway... i was in high school in Columbia, SC and a friend of mine was wearing a (here goes) "can you keep it up?" Hacky Sack shirt! i thought it was the coolest looking shirt and i would see him kicking a bag during marching band practice. i asked him and like most footbaggers he welcomed me in and taught me how to kick. i'll never forget him... good ole what's his name! :-) he showed me Footbag World and i proceded to get about four Hacky Sack shirts, the really cool footbag calendar, a million Hacky Sack keychains, and about two million footbags! Footbag will always be a sport that i love and love passing the knowledge along! Jason F. ===== Jason Frost jdiabolo@yahoo.com From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue May 28 15:01:58 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA21134 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 28 May 2002 15:01:58 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f231.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.231]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA24768; Fri, 17 May 2002 01:40:40 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 17 May 2002 01:40:40 -0700 Received: from 64.228.185.74 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 17 May 2002 08:40:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.228.185.74] From: "Yves Archambault" To: Q@footbag.org Cc: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Wow.. a net video! Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 08:40:40 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 May 2002 08:40:40.0310 (UTC) FILETIME=[863F8160:01C1FD7E] Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Hi Matt, I did film 18 hours last summer, in 5 different tourneys and I like the idea of a cd. My computer is just too slow to get to it properly. Bob is supposed to film with 4 pro digital cameras here next summer, please be here with the training camp and the international conference on the future of footbag net. (July 18th in Montreal) Take care Yevez By the way a german site is starting to add some net videos and photos check it out at: http://www.frankfurtfootbag.de/ From: "Matt Quint" To: Subject: Re: [footbag] Wow.. a net video! Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 21:17:54 -0400 Steve says, "Also, note that I've had a standing offer to host any video anyone wants to put on footbag.org for 8 years now. So far, only 6 people have ever contributed video, and none of them (except for quebec.footbag.org) have ever contributed net video. Go figure." I hope we can use this comment to inspire the creation of just such a video! Again, in my opinion, one of the next things that could help all of us promote the sport of footbag would be a 'demo CDR .vcd' of all the discplines of footbag, packed with a little information too :-) These would be readily playable in DVDs or on a computer, and cheap and easy to copy and distribute - just taking a page from the 'jamband' world here, and the explosion of skate boarding and other X-games sports which got exposure for themselves through the spreading of vids. Right now I can offer time and money, but, unfortunately not any vids to support this effort. Can we get some conversation here to rally around this idea? Maybe a project for this upcoming Worlds event? Matt Q@footbag.org From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue May 28 15:01:27 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA21090 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 28 May 2002 15:01:27 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f37.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.37]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA24259 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 01:35:37 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 17 May 2002 01:35:32 -0700 Received: from 64.228.185.74 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 17 May 2002 08:35:32 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.228.185.74] From: "Yves Archambault" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Consecutives and Golf at Worlds Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 08:35:32 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 May 2002 08:35:32.0541 (UTC) FILETIME=[CECDAED0:01C1FD7D] Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Hey that's a great idea I think any division of the sport could have a big event, not neccesarely called a World's but the best confrontation of consecutives or golf or both. I personnally practiced consecs a lot at first and consider that a well balanced player should be able to kick at least 500-1000 consecs anytime without dropping. I also think that some people will organize more informal golf rounds at World's this year and they could probably raise a decent prize money just by throwing a few bucks each. Why not? The issue is more to make choices to be marketed at a larger scale and there I see more Net and Freestyle as big time spectator sports and It's been like that for ever. Kick on Yevez (Yves Archambault, Montreal) "and as an afterthought wonders how many folks would show up for the World Footbag Golf and Consecutives championships if it was held in a year or two. -- Ida Bettis Fogle" "Shy rights. Why not pretty soon?" From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue May 28 15:02:57 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA21290 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 28 May 2002 15:02:57 -0700 Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA06350; Fri, 17 May 2002 06:59:41 -0700 From: Ted Huff Received: from Thehuff1@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id z.4f.1d9811a6 (4556); Fri, 17 May 2002 09:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4f.1d9811a6.2a166698@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:58:48 EDT Subject: Re: [footbag] a net video! To: Q@footbag.org CC: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org I made the same offer of support just over 1 month ago. Only Yves Archambault & friends in Quebec are working on one now. The sport needs a good CD + VHS tape , that can be used for sponsor solicitation, media, and club and school training in Net play. UNSEEN, UNTOLD, UNSOLD. Why not PASS IT ON !! ??? Who's got good tape now ? In a closet so no one can see or use? what good is that to a sport that needs help? I suggest that it all needs to be coordinated by IFPA. , hence Chris Ott, Marketing Director. chris@footbag.org Right? best regards, Ted Huff, co-director Footbag Hall of Fame Historical Society From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue May 28 15:05:03 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA21565 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 28 May 2002 15:05:03 -0700 Received: from m22.boston.juno.com (m22.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.85]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA21831 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 18:52:29 -0700 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"stHo5BQddtEjcrVLw9PkWzwx92FMpDtKjcZIqlvVKj5fw1IRNChclQ=="> Received: (from flutefreak7@juno.com) by m22.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G25VUX3L; Sat, 18 May 2002 21:52:18 EDT To: footbag@footbag.org Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 21:51:54 -0400 Subject: [footbag] Space Camp Message-ID: <20020518.215155.2276.0.flutefreak7@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-6 From: Brett N Ables Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Hey everybody! Sounds far-fetched but I had to ask: is anyone on the list going to be at Space Camp in Huntsville Alabama on June 8-14? Or simply in Huntsville on the 14th? Don't everybody e-mail at once! Pain is Temporary Bables From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Tue May 28 15:06:42 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA21716 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 28 May 2002 15:06:42 -0700 Received: from web10605.mail.yahoo.com (web10605.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.169]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id UAA28148 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 20:13:58 -0700 Message-ID: <20020522031354.43248.qmail@web10605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.119.34.39] by web10605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 May 2002 20:13:54 PDT Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:13:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Hardin Subject: Re: [footbag] How did you discover footbag? To: Dat Phan , footbag@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <20020514000903.78195.qmail@web20603.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org I discovered footbag, by a school program. We had to sell wrapping paper, and candy, and one of the prizes was a hacky sack. It had directions (keep in air, don't use hands) I kicked it around, but never really got into it. Then I went to a Scout Camp and met this guy, Scott, who got me into freestyling and real footbag, and ever since i have been doin it. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed May 29 08:14:29 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA15087 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 29 May 2002 08:14:29 -0700 Received: from river.netrover.com (mail.netrover.com [216.95.168.66]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id AAA05843 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 00:35:50 -0700 Received: from intouch.bc.ca (1Cust70.tnt12.vancouver.bc.da.uu.net [64.10.136.70]) by river.netrover.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA07287 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 03:35:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-From: aloe@intouch.bc.ca X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: <3CE51D36.57D3132C@intouch.bc.ca> Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 08:09:42 -0700 From: Juliet Pendray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] How did you discover footbag? References: <20020514000903.78195.qmail@web20603.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org When I was fifteen, I used to hang out with these guys at the local beach some days. They were older, but Yen, the main dude, had taken me on as a sort of younger sister, so I was a part of their group for awhile. The guys took up hackysacking, and their girlfriends sat on the sidelines discussing nail polish or whatever. I felt kind of out of place. But given the choice between cuticle analysis or trying to kick a little bag, I got up the gumption to try hacking. It took me so long to even make contact with the dam' thing that I would've given up. But Yen made me keep at it. If I sat down he'd just throw the bag at me over and over and over....until I got exasperated enough to give it another go. >From the moment I made my first successful kick/pass with the bag I was hooked for good. 'Been kicking constantly for eighteen years and counting... and somehow it remains fresh and new to me. oh yeah baybeh - wahoo! Juliet Dat Phan wrote: > Hey List, > > I was wondering how everyone else got introduced to > footbag. From owner-footbag@list.footbag.org Wed May 29 08:24:53 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA15667 for footbag-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 29 May 2002 08:24:53 -0700 Received: from mailout6.nyroc.rr.com (mailout6-0.nyroc.rr.com [24.92.226.125]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA02314 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 17:59:17 -0700 Received: from 1sgpz01 (syr-66-24-59-181.twcny.rr.com [66.24.59.181]) by mailout6.nyroc.rr.com (8.11.6/RoadRunner 1.20) with SMTP id g4T0xFD01499 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 20:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002101c206ac$574e8360$b53b1842@twcny.rr.com> From: "Tyler Linscot" To: Subject: [footbag] Re: [freestyle] Ways of Improving your game Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 21:01:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-footbag@list.footbag.org 2 things I have done to dramaticaly improve my shreding. 1. kick with a hard footbag. 2. kick in basketball shoes. Both of these are learn by disadvantage type ideas. I don't suggest doing either of these in a circle, but taking one day a week and using a hard hack or some heavy bouncy b-ball shoes, while frustrating at first , will give you alot more control and speed. granted my advice shouldn't be taken as seriously as long time players, i've only been kickin for 5 months, but I can hit drifters , whirls, dlo, and infinties, and my consec record is 453. I attribute most of that to my time i spend with my rock hard bag and my nikes. Then when I take out my sand filled facile 32 panel and my lavers i shred like theres no tommorrow. try it and let me know what you think. always kickin' tyler