From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu May 1 01:18:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA28834 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 01:18:00 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA28830 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 May 1997 01:17:54 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (28827) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA28825 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 01:17:54 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA03964; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:18:47 -0700 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id V{C13638; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:03:03 EDT To: footbag@footbag.org Cc: dfogle@mlerf.org, brat@footbag.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 20:58:24 -0400 Subject: [footbag] 32 panels - ludicrous comments Message-ID: <19970430.205824.8374.0.dervish@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-4,6-9,11-13,15-19,21-23,26-28,30-32,35-43,50-57, 59,63,68-70,72 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org The following is a post of semantics and is not intended as anything more than me giggling at home. If you are seriously following this debate, please disregard this post. -JP >On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:47:11 -0700 Steve Goldberg writes: >>Derrick Fogle wrote: >>The ones I've seen in toy stores don't exactly fit Josh's description >>but are similar. Even though they are horrid, they do fit the >>definition of footbag (well I haven't weighed one) as stated in the IFAB >>rulebook. 20-40 grams, right? How often has a tournament director stopped the show to weigh a footbag? >Au contraire! They *do not* fit the IFAB definition -- forgetting about >weight (which is probably another issue). They are not stuffed with >"loose filling" which is the IFAB definition; they are stuffed with >fiberglass or some other dense packing material. (And I repeat, they are not >"bags", they are "balls".) So are "net bags." They're vinyl rocks. Just because they're made better and can withstand extended beatings doesn't make them 'bags'. they are most definitely not loosely filled. Ask my ankle. Ouch! >>despite the lousy difficult to use items, I saw value in and purchased >>higher quality, more expensive stuff (OK, I've never bought a car that's >> not a clunker :). I never would have guessed. You, DF? Next thing you're gonna tell me is that the waving-your-shoulders-like-a-chicken-man thing you did at worlds was rented. Please say it ain't so. >Now you can get an EXCELLENT bag for $6-$8. That *IS* cheap. But $1.69 >creates a false economy -- bags so cheap that aren't really bags can't >qualify as cheap; they aren't what they claim to be. >These $1.69 pieces of holy crap are just wadded >machine-fused balls of rubber/vinyl with fake indentations for the >"seams" between "panels"... Okay, Steve. Go out to every store on the planet carrying these unholy bastions of evil and replace them with shining I-Dig, sipa, guat-o, HaneDane, Adidas, whatever. Convince these proprietors that what you're doing will not only be good for the sport, but will make them so much more money. Then go to the factories where they make these disgusting creations and burn them down, and rebuild the infrastructure with workers who know nothing but stitch and suede, facile and floss. >>I just can't bring myself to imagine that these things will adversely >>affect the sport of footbag. > >Fine. Just mark my words. > Yeah, Steve told us so. Nyahh. (picture me with my tounge stuck out and my thumb on my nose, fingers waving in the breeze of free enterprise) It's not that I completely disagree with you, Steve... but what are you gonna do about it? I still hold to the opinion that there's no bad publicity. When they (you know, them) hate footbag, they have to *say* footbag. To tell you the truth, I haven't seen any of those things recently.... I gave away all my bags that I don't use (except for that 32-panel facile I won in Albany last year made by 'D-Day' Botkin) - hell, I gave away the sipa that came in my players pack before the tournament was over. We all do the best we can. what more can there be said? -JP ps. I am still waiting on final "strange injury" stories... entry deadline is Western Regionals. From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu May 1 04:07:04 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA29641 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 04:06:55 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA29637 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 May 1997 04:06:54 GMT Received: from eric@javaconnection.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (29634) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA29632 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 04:06:54 GMT Received: from sol.javaconnection.com (sol.javaconnection.com [207.155.18.98]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA05177 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:07:48 -0700 Received: from 207.155.18.104 ([207.155.18.104]) by sol.javaconnection.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA03708 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 20:34:34 -0700 Message-ID: <33681797.FF9@javaconnection.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 20:10:01 -0800 From: eric Reply-To: eric@javaconnection.com Organization: Java Connection X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: RE: [footbag] 32 panels everywhere Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Steve wrote: >Au contraire! They *do not* fit the IFAB >>definition -- forgetting about >weight (which is probably another issue). They are >not stuffed with "loose >filling" which is the IFAB definition; they are >stuffed with fiberglass or >some other dense packing material. (And I repeat, >they are not "bags", >they are "balls".) Actually steve I bought them and they really are sewn together panels. And inside the bag is another small plastic bag which holds all the loose beeds. They must use a machine for this. 1.69 to cheap for people to work for. They were called the "sport kicker" with two little cartoon characters on the front with the girls foot up and the boy just standing there. Obviously they are trying to sell them as real footbags . Ill show them to you Steve when I visit you at the WESTERN REGIONALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu May 1 06:41:17 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA30156 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 06:41:12 GMT Received: from hill9361@dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (30110) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA30108 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 06:38:45 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA07297 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 23:39:41 -0700 Received: from skull.cs.uidaho.edu (skull.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.108]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.1) with ESMTP id XAA07141 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 23:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by skull.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.0) with SMTP id XAA25395 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 23:39:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: skull.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 23:39:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Hillebrand To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] 32 panels - ludicrous comments In-Reply-To: <19970430.205824.8374.0.dervish@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org On Wed, 30 Apr 1997, Josh Penney wrote: > So are "net bags." They're vinyl rocks. Just because they're made better > and can withstand extended beatings doesn't make them 'bags'. they are > most definitely not loosely filled. Ask my ankle. Ouch! Good point. What if someone who was new to the sport heard that The Juice footbag was a good one, and then they went out and spent a pretty penny on a Net Juice thinking that it was a freestyle bag? Not only would they get frustrated, but they would probably feel bad for not buying that $1.69 model. I'm just playing the Devil's advocate. ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 hootie AND phish blow From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu May 1 08:14:29 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA30353 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 08:14:26 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA30349 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 May 1997 08:14:25 GMT Received: from meoem@intouch.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (30346) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA30344 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 08:14:25 GMT Received: from srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (srv1.reelwest.bc.ca [207.194.197.238]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA08916 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 01:15:19 -0700 Received: from 207.194.197.151 (unverified [207.194.197.151]) by srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Thu, 01 May 1997 01:14:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3367EE9E.5D72@intouch.bc.ca> Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 01:15:09 +0000 From: Mark Donovan X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Late night bable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Its Evanne wow this computer thing has many people hooked up and wired. Its a very addictive tool EH? Yes, my first time on the big screen (site) and here are we all stars? I've been blown away by this mail thing and how easy it seems for people to communicate. I see this as a reuniting with the slightly archaic letter writing. ahh its nice that way. I think you guys like it too. This is evident from all the continous mail I receive which doesn't truely entertain me,or excite me concerning the price and quality and benefit for kickers and the sport. It would be easy for me to fall into this conversation but alas I feel my duty is to acknowledge all participators in this far out debate, and perhaps pass out some bandages for some of the war wounds. I managed to quickly skim through a few of the letters concerning this subject($1.69). Absorbing only bits due to attractive catch words and thankfully rejecting most of it as valid bantering which verged on boring. Josh definately got the worst of the deal on my screen. Please don't take offence Josh but my interest was pretty low until your comedic bravery into serioso land. I thank you for brightening up the dulldrums of bantering footbaggers for me. In the future even though your name doen't have a face for me I will not kick you off my screen with such haste. Unless I do find the subject matter distasteful or yawn inducing. Blah Blah Blah. Its pretty cool to just babble off at 1:00 am and not really care if I am contibuting to society or not. Is this an attraction? Normally I really care about my contribution but here one can just spew. Right? Salute From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu May 1 12:06:07 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA30823 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 12:06:00 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA30819 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 May 1997 12:05:58 GMT Received: from durfduo@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (30816) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA30814 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 12:05:58 GMT From: Durfduo@aol.com Received: from emout15.mail.aol.com (emout15.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.41]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA09846 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 05:06:56 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout15.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id HAA10294; Thu, 1 May 1997 07:30:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 07:30:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970501073017_214274061@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: hussey@stolaf.edu cc: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Re: 32 panels everywhere Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Like Mike Hussey, I never saw the sport until many, many years of circle kicking. I was hooked on the game and became a possessed circle kicker, running around the circle to make saves as the bag flew past less enthusiastic kickers. I got pretty damn good at making saves and enjoyed it which probably explains why I'm primarily a net player now. Now to my point. I don't think the quality of the bag was the big factor. Lack of exposure to the sport was. I finally got into the sport because I mailed in the WFA application on the Hackysack package (not because I saw someone playing net or freestyling). I may have done it sooner but I was buying the Balywik Mumbus for a while and that didn't come with any literature, just world record holder Andy Linder's signature. Even the Hackysack packaging/literature ignored the sport aspect of footbag and focused on basic kicks (It would have helped to address both). I don't remember seeing a hackysack commercial, but I bet it focused on footbag as a recreational activity. Footbag producers must push the sport as well as the recreational aspect. We need more media focus (commericals, articles, etc. that show the sport of footbag). We're definitely making progress. The other big thing that would help is getting footbag into physical education curriculums at schools. Granted you could not start out with net or freestyle, but as long as literature or videos on the sport were made available to interested kickers, growth of the sport would occur. The last key, as Derrick mentioned, is bringing the sport to the people ourselves. Tournaments in visible places, demos, etc. will help a lot. Keep up the good work fellow kickers and someday.... Scott Durfee Richmond, VA From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu May 1 13:25:57 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA31138 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 13:25:55 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA31134 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 May 1997 13:25:53 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (31131) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA31129 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 13:25:53 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA10098 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 06:26:51 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA03511 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 08:26:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [footbag] 32 panels everywhere Message-Id: <000000161442945337984@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 07:26:24 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.8.6 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org On Wed, Apr 30, 1997, 10:47:11 PM GMT Steve Goldberg wrote: >filling" which is the IFAB definition; they are stuffed with fiberglass or >some other dense packing material. (And I repeat, they are not "bags", Well, OK, I haven't seen these ones, then. I have seen the 'fused faux vinyl with fake seam indentation' covering, though - they are strange. All the ones I've ever seen had ground up plastic sealed inside a plastic bag which is stuffed inside the covering. The inner plastic bag turned out to be more durable than the cover. >>I kicked around a rock for 2 weeks before I could afford to buy my own >>Hacky Sack. > >Yeah, and look what happened to you. :-) Heh heh. Oh - that's why you think they might be damaging to the sport of footbag - they might attract another goofball like me! 8{0 >bicycle, at least it still rolls. At least it still has wheels, tires, >brakes, handle bars. These $1.69 pieces of holy crap are just wadded Huh? They are approximately spherical in shape, between 1 & 2-1/2 inches in diameter, and can be kicked, even if the result is less than satisfactory. If I do see one of these specific items about, I will buy it and cut it open to determine what is inside. If the inside comes out in 1 or 2 pieces, no, it's not a footbag; but if it comes out in 3 or more pieces, then I think that probably fits the definition of 'loose material of any kind.' Derrick From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu May 1 13:44:26 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA31258 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 13:44:25 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA31254 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 May 1997 13:44:24 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (31251) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA31249 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 13:44:24 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA10181 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 06:45:23 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA04329 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 08:45:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [footbag] 32 panels - ludicrous comments Message-Id: <000000161462945339095@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 07:44:55 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.8.6 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: footbag@footbag.org Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org On Thu, May 1, 1997, 12:58:24 AM GMT Josh Penney wrote: >The following is a post of semantics and is not intended as anything more >than me giggling at home. If you are seriously following this debate, >please disregard this post. I'm not sure anyone is seriously following this post (except for Steve; don't we need to expand that list to the top 20 or 30, or 50 or 60 things that push his button?). I'm just having a little fun while my ankle is still tweaked from the recent harshing. I'd rather be kicking, you know! But I do want everyone to know that I never paid a dime for my "waving- your-shoulders-like-a-chicken-man" technology; I researched and developed that with spare parts taken out of broken toasters, teevees, and air conditioners that I picked up at the curb on trash day. It wasn't easy home-building a Dual-Oscillating Caridrat and retrofitting it to be controlled by a Wingbat 709, then fusing it to an old compressor motor and having the whole thing implanted in the base of my neck. But I liked the results. I applied for a patent, but never could get the workers at the patent office to stop laughing at me, so I finally gave up. Bock Bock Bock! 8{) Derrick From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu May 1 14:01:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA31351 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 14:01:10 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA31347 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 May 1997 14:01:08 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (31344) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA31342 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 14:01:08 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA10268 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 07:02:06 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04856 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 09:02:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [footbag] 32 panels everywhere Message-Id: <000000161492945340099@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 08:01:39 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.8.6 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org On Thu, May 1, 1997, 4:10:01 AM GMT eric wrote: >Actually steve I bought them and they really are sewn together panels. >And inside the bag is another small plastic bag which holds all the >loose beeds. Oh, then I take back what I said about not having seen them. 8{) Derrick From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu May 1 16:06:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA32046 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 16:05:51 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA32042 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 May 1997 16:05:50 GMT Received: from aloe@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (32039) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA32037 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 16:05:50 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA10910 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 09:06:49 -0700 Received: (from aloe@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA21828; Thu, 1 May 1997 09:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 09:06:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Juliet Pendray Subject: Re: [footbag] 32 panels everywhere To: footbag@footbag.org cc: aloe@vcn.bc.ca In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Well, *I've* been enjoying this conversation! :-) Reminds me of the general bantering/bullshitting grooviness of your average kicking circle - A cool way of getting to know interesting strangers & an inevitable aspect of the camaraderie of and obsession with footbag.... -------- BTW - I'm not defending the 1.69 bags that are filled with garbage, unkickable, and immediately explode on contact. Just expressing a desire to have those retailers who are only willing to sell really lowcost "hacks" (i.e. huge pharmacy chains, discount stores etc.), to be approached with lowcost but kickable "beginner footbags." Clearly labelled as such, so that the new kicker is aware that there is a next step up in bags to go to when the possibilities of the beginner bag are exhausted. These bags already exist basically, but are not packaged for beginners and don't have a huge distribution. --------- Getting a "footbuck" with my first sipa, then getting my first copy of Footbag World years ago was a revelation. I took it along with me to circles all the time: saying "omigod-look at this!" Consequently, everyone went out and bought a sipa just to get the footbuck & the 'zine. The sipas here now don't come with a footbuck anymore - which is a shame. jooooliet p.s. Heya Evanne! Welcome to the list you groovy goddess-type-person you! ;-) From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu May 1 16:18:08 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA32106 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 16:17:57 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA32102 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 May 1997 16:17:57 GMT Received: from hearsey@u.washington.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (32099) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA32097 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 16:17:56 GMT Received: from jason03.u.washington.edu (jason03.u.washington.edu [140.142.77.10]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA10996 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 09:18:56 -0700 Received: from saul2.u.washington.edu (hearsey@saul2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.21]) by jason03.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.04/8.8.4+UW97.04) with ESMTP id JAA13212 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 09:18:47 -0700 Received: from localhost (hearsey@localhost) by saul2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.04/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id JAA30636 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 09:18:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 09:18:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Hearsey To: footbag news Subject: [footbag] Western's hotel Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Wondering where people are staying for Western Regionals. Is there any hotel that will have lots of footbaggers? Simon From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu May 1 18:35:10 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA00195 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 18:34:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA00191 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 May 1997 18:34:22 GMT Received: from david_vanderlaan@mail.okbu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (188) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA00186 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 18:34:22 GMT Received: from mail.okbu.edu (mail.okbu.edu [164.58.90.70]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11875 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 11:35:22 -0700 Received: from Computer_Center-Message_Server by mail.okbu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 01 May 1997 13:31:50 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 09:20:52 -0500 From: David Vanderlaan To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] more 32 panels Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Greetings all, First of all, thank you for the encouragement on purchasing the lavers.....I kicked around for a while last night and i feel like I have got a pair of shoe boxes on my feet..fine, very fine. (these things are just SO dang white still...) Also, about this whole 32 panel debate.......I really don't believe that there is one definitive answer to this problem. For some of us, we are now in the sport thanks to that glorified rock that we kicked and kicked until our feet were blue. We were young and poor but able to play thanks to our 'made in taiwan' "footbag" (I use that word loosely). On the other hand, there are people that should be playing today that are not, due almost entirely to the fact that they became frustrated with their equipment. I must say however that we should remain aware that those who produce these vinyl horrors do not give a rip about the sport. Consequently -the way I see it anyhow- every person that turns on to footbag as a result of a 1.69 bag is one for us and a loss for them ('them' being Mr. overweight greedy pen-pushing desk man). Just trying to see the glass as half full, david From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu May 1 21:03:06 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA01073 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 21:01:25 GMT Received: from hungchang_at_bldg2@ca.slr.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (459) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA00457 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 19:29:40 GMT From: HungChang_at_BLDG2@ca.slr.com Received: from relay3.smtp.psi.net (relay3.smtp.psi.net [38.8.210.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA12265; Thu, 1 May 1997 12:30:41 -0700 Received: from dns.slr.com by relay3.smtp.psi.net (8.8.3/SMI-5.4-PSI) id PAA20150; Thu, 1 May 1997 15:30:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ca.slr.com ([158.116.9.16]) by dns.slr.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA07692; Thu, 1 May 1997 12:30:12 -0700 Received: from ccMail by ca.slr.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA862514825; Thu, 01 May 97 09:22:52 PST Date: Thu, 01 May 97 09:22:52 PST Message-Id: <9704018625.AA862514825@ca.slr.com> To: brat@footbag.org, footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re[2]: [footbag] 32 panels - cheap vs quality Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Steve, I stopped by the local Toys R Us and checked out the footbag section. They have the Mattel Hacky Sacks and the "Toe Jammers" by Just4Kids. The "Toe Jammers" gave you TWO bags, a crocheted bag and a 32-panel vinyl bag, in one package for $5.99! That's @$3.00 for each bag. I tried the 32 panel bag in my hiking boots and it was EASY to kick right out of the box! I even managed to do a toe stall. The construction didn't look that bad at all. On the cover of the package reads, "Not just another Footbag!" and on the back some encouraging words on how to start a hack circle. No info on WFA, though. I think what you are hoping for is that all of these cheap bags are potentially "stallable", therefore increasing chances for creating new freestylers. However most toy footbags are designed for circle kicking not freestyle. What I don't like is the fact that most freestylers are using facile bags while we are pushing the adidas synthetic suede bags. It's sort of like telling someone to buy a Huffy to try mountain biking. As far as having quality net bags available in stores, Flying Clipper or adidas can forget about it. I just don't see beginners buying a net bag and trying net without any assistance of a local club. Hung p.s. my first store bought kicking thing was a Chinese shuttlecock (@25cents). Kicked way better than the Crap-O-Sacks. From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu May 1 23:12:10 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA01784 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 23:10:37 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA01780 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 May 1997 23:10:35 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1777) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA01775 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 23:10:34 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA13820 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 16:11:37 -0700 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id TsT16393; Thu, 01 May 1997 19:09:29 EDT To: ratcliff@advtel.net Cc: footbag@footbag.org Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 18:57:15 -0400 Subject: [footbag] Re: 32-Panel :) - miraculous epiphany!! Message-ID: <19970501.190618.3278.1.dervish@juno.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970501152903.007b7740@mail.advtel.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-13,15,19,21,23,26-29,32 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org >I'm not sayin that we should make footbags that are magnetic >and stick to your foot, Has anyone invented the velcro bag yet? Someone once told me I had "little hands on my feet to keep the ball there". >So I guess the purpose of this letter >is to say that there would be LOTS more footbaggers if there were nice >footbags out there for not a lotta $$$. Well, keep two numbers in mind: Flying Clipper: 1800 FOOT FUN & WFA 1800 878 8797. Whenever a soul asks me (and they do so very often - at least one every other day) I recite one of these handy series o'digits and say, they cand send you a cheap catalog/killer bathroom 'zine for a couple of bucks (and less). Honestly, how often has someone said to you, "where can *I* get one of those?" So I must apologise here for the serious # of those 'spensive calls from the east, o mighty footbag corps; I never carry bags to sell. I've actually made copies of the FC flyer with Kendall on the cover to give out to some. The good bags are not all that expensive, and I think if we all spend a dollar or two on copies of catalogs then we can really get somewhere with this thing. -JP ps. Wes, I cross-posted this because this so-called discussion is taking place on the Footbag list. I notice you do this a lot. Stop it or I will kill you. . ) From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Fri May 2 04:21:49 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA02983 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 04:21:31 GMT Received: from jsymons@hpmfas1.cup.hp.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1430) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA01428 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 22:01:39 GMT Received: from palrel3.hp.com (palrel3.hp.com [15.253.88.10]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA13254 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 15:02:21 -0700 Received: from hpmfas1.cup.hp.com (hpmfac6.cup.hp.com [15.13.170.141]) by palrel3.hp.com with SMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA14210 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 15:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hpmfas1.cup.hp.com (1.38.193.4/15.5+IOS 3.20+cup+OMrelay) id AA23030; Thu, 1 May 1997 15:01:26 -0700 From: jsymons@hpmfas1.cup.hp.com (Julie Symons) Message-Id: <9705011501.ZM23028@hpmfac6.cup.hp.com> Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 15:01:25 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Kicking Pringles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Have you seen the latest Pringles commercial? I saw it today at lunch. They have people playing a Pringles can like a trumpet, like a drum, juggling Pringles cans, and even STANDING IN A CIRCLE KICKING A PRINGLES CAN. Another footbag sighting, kinda sorta. 'Can't wait to get out on the net (footbag net that is, not internet) - 60 more minutes of work.... Julie -- From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Fri May 2 04:43:34 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA03065 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 04:43:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA03061 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 2 May 1997 04:43:33 GMT Received: from hussey@stolaf.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (3058) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA03056 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 04:43:32 GMT Received: from nic.stolaf.edu (nic.stolaf.edu [130.71.128.8]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA15516 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 21:44:36 -0700 Received: from inga1.acc.stolaf.edu (inga1.acc.stolaf.edu [130.71.208.24]) by nic.stolaf.edu (SMI-8.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA14037; Thu, 1 May 1997 23:44:30 -0500 Received: (hussey@localhost) by inga1.acc.stolaf.edu (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA20777; Thu, 1 May 1997 23:44:28 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:44:27 -0500 (CDT) From: epxert X-Sender: hussey@inga1.acc.stolaf.edu To: Juliet Pendray cc: footbag@footbag.org, aloe@vcn.bc.ca Subject: Re: [footbag] 32 panels everywhere In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org You will never get any marketing person to label a footbag that costs more than $4 as a beginner bag. mike ____________________________ Mike Hussey hussey@stolaf.edu From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Fri May 2 04:46:04 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA03096 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 04:46:03 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA03091 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 2 May 1997 04:46:03 GMT Received: from hussey@stolaf.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (3088) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA03086 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 04:46:02 GMT Received: from nic.stolaf.edu (nic.stolaf.edu [130.71.128.8]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA15536 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 21:47:07 -0700 Received: from inga1.acc.stolaf.edu (inga1.acc.stolaf.edu [130.71.208.24]) by nic.stolaf.edu (SMI-8.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA14650; Thu, 1 May 1997 23:47:04 -0500 Received: (hussey@localhost) by inga1.acc.stolaf.edu (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA20795; Thu, 1 May 1997 23:47:01 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:47:01 -0500 (CDT) From: epxert X-Sender: hussey@inga1.acc.stolaf.edu To: David Vanderlaan cc: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] more 32 panels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org You cannot say that they don't give a rip about the sport, they would care about anything if it made money. Now they just have to be convinced. Mike Hussey hussey@stolaf.edu From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Fri May 2 06:13:26 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA03377 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 06:13:25 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA03373 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 2 May 1997 06:13:23 GMT Received: from dbotkin@family.hampshire.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (3370) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA03368 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 06:13:21 GMT Received: from family.hampshire.edu (family.hampshire.edu [192.101.188.104]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA16060 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 23:14:26 -0700 Received: (from dbotkin@localhost) by family.hampshire.edu (8.7.4/8.7.3) id CAA09263 for footbag@footbag.org; Fri, 2 May 1997 02:18:53 -0400 From: Daniel Botkin Message-Id: <199705020618.CAA09263@family.hampshire.edu> Subject: [footbag] 32 'logue To: footbag@footbag.org Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 02:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org This very serious, amusing and edifying chat on the value of cheap bags to has been ignoring one important angle... that is, if our goal is truly to recruit virgin kickers and facilitate their (positive) first experiences (as opposed to debate principles and socialize with this weird bunch...). Of course capitalism alone can't be depended upon to plant a quality product within the reach of every would-be kicker. And certainly some folks prevail through some gruesome specimens of cowhide or vinyl first footbags and still fall in love with this sweet dance form... while others surrender right off in hopeless despair. (In college I tried about 3 times and failed so utterly, I did not try again for 8 more years!) What has not been mentioned is the fact that constructing one's own, yummy, inexpensive, high quality, 4 panel, stall-ready, skin-so-soft styler is so easy that a ten year old can routinely do it... in 25 minutes! The significance of this is that WE FOOTBAG LOVERS DON'T HAVE TO CAJOLE CVS AND WALMART AND TOYLAND TO CARRY I-DIG OR ADIDAS OR FLYING CLIPPER IN ORDER TO GIVE NEOPHYTES A FIGHTING CHANCE. Instead, brothers and sisters, you yourself can sit down with one or a few of the aspiring and inspired proletariat... and teach em to sew their own ticket to fun and glory. You mean you don't know how to sew a footbag??? As you probably already know, the Footbag Mentors Project is based on teaching any/all interested people to make their own as an entry point to further training, group process, personal growth and athletic skill building. The personal investment and emotional "buy in" you see when someone stitches their own sack is truly remarkable. Not only are they more likely to actually play and persevere in the sport, but they are also transformed by the creative experience and mentorship dynamic. I could go on, but you get the picture. Years ago, when I was hanging out on the fringes of Worlds, teaching kids and uncles and photographers, several footbag makers approached me with concerns that I might be "spoiling" the sack market or breeding unwanted competition by showing everyone how it was done. I think today we all realize that the growth curve offers an exciting "more the merrier" opportunity. The more people get turned on, the more attention the sport gets and the more business for retail product... etc, etc. More sewers can only help the accelerating footbag phenomenon. Who knows, it might even impact the quality available at the local pharmacy... So, I repeat the offer which has been my calling for quite a while. If you are serious about mentoring youth at risk... if you are willing to pass it along w/o charge to all who ask... if you can get behind the idea of cooperation and non-violence as higher values (than your drop/add ratio)... if you circle kick at the drop of a hat (like Durf) with rank beginners... then, let me hook you up. Or better yet, there's probably someone nearby who can. Together we will rock out! Choreographed freestyle demos are A-OK. Flying Clipper and Hane Dane are still the best. But if the kid makes her own, she'll remember it forever. Peace, Daniel Dog From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Fri May 2 13:49:44 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA04803 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 13:49:26 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA04793 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 2 May 1997 13:49:23 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (4790) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA04788 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 13:49:22 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA17844 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 06:50:31 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA02253 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 08:50:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [footbag] 32 'logue Message-Id: <000000162222945425806@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 07:50:06 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.8.6 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org On Fri, May 2, 1997, 6:18:53 AM GMT Daniel Botkin wrote: Thanks for the words, Dog. In my haste to have a good semantic argument, I had forgotten this angle. But of course I will still pervert your message with this single point, because I am helpless to resist my own pedantic dogma... >Years ago, when I was hanging out on the fringes of Worlds, teaching kids >and uncles and photographers, several footbag makers approached me with >concerns that I might be "spoiling" the sack market or breeding unwanted This reminds me when cassette tapes were first coming on the market. All the record makers howled and cried and said it would ruin their business because everyone would just copy on cassettes. Certainly, people did copy albums onto cassettes, and maybe a sale or two was lost. But the net affect was to increase the accessibility of music and open up a whole new market. In the long run, many people who got ahold of pirated music would end up buying the album for themselves if they liked it anyway. If the record makers had gotten what they asked for - namely keeping cassette technology off the market - it would have limited the music industry. oops - gotta go! The fun for the day is starting! Derrick Fogle From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Fri May 2 14:40:14 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA05002 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:40:13 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA04998 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:40:11 GMT Received: from proshred@ix.netcom.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (4995) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA04993 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:40:10 GMT Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA18094 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 07:41:19 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA18087 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 09:41:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sjx-ca28-24.ix.netcom.com(204.31.235.120) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma018027; Fri May 2 09:41:02 1997 Message-ID: <3369FF23.21F8@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 07:50:11 -0700 From: Mike Niday Reply-To: proshred@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Kicking Pringles References: <9705011501.ZM23028@hpmfac6.cup.hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Julie Symons wrote: > > Have you seen the latest Pringles commercial? I saw it today at > lunch. They have people playing a Pringles can like a trumpet, > like a drum, juggling Pringles cans, and even STANDING IN A CIRCLE > KICKING A PRINGLES CAN. > > Another footbag sighting, kinda sorta. > But Julie, was it a 32-panel Pringles can ?? :-) Mighty proshred@ix.netcom.com From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Sat May 3 18:13:44 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA05706 for footbag-outgoing; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:13:19 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA05702 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:13:18 GMT Received: from ratcliff@advtel.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (5699) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA05697 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:13:18 GMT Received: from noc1.eatel.net (noc1.eatel.net [207.101.8.253]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA29468 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 11:13:28 -0700 Received: from p166 (max4-29.eatel.net [207.101.8.149]) by noc1.eatel.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA11250; Sat, 3 May 1997 13:40:51 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970503131336.007b6710@mail.advtel.net> X-Sender: ratcliff@mail.advtel.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 13:13:36 -0500 To: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) From: Wes Ratcliff Subject: [footbag] Re: miraculous epiphany!! & A footbaggers defense In-Reply-To: <19970501.190618.3278.1.dervish@juno.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970501152903.007b7740@mail.advtel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org >ps. Wes, I cross-posted this because this so-called discussion is taking >place on the Footbag list. I notice you do this a lot. =20 Well, if this is what you *THINK*... let's take a trip to my out box and see when I last even participated in a discussion... Well, it said that other than me asking a couple of questions and posting when I had updated my page, (which were posted to the RIGHT group) I haven't participated in a discussion since the beginnning of this year!!! = =20 So there :=FE Yeah, it IS my fault for cross-posting this time, though. I'm sorry. But I still don't see why you had to make a such a big deal about it. You coulda just e-mailed me about it. --=3D=3DI REST MY CASE=3D=3D-- >Stop it or I will kill you. Well, I thought we were talking about how to get more people interested in footbag. Not kill em all off!!=20 >Someone once told me I had "little hands on my feet to keep the ball >there". Anyway, before you "kill me", show me how to do the little hands-on-my-feet trick!! So anyway, since we're talking about annoying stuff... How about a web page that had a Faq on How to cross-post typed in ALL caps and set in blinking frames!! Later, Wes From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Sat May 3 18:30:49 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA05745 for footbag-outgoing; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:30:49 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA05741 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:30:48 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (5738) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA05736 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:30:48 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA29543 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 11:30:59 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970503131336.007b6710@mail.advtel.net> References: <19970501.190618.3278.1.dervish@juno.com> <3.0.1.32.19970501152903.007b7740@mail.advtel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:32:30 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] Re: miraculous epiphany!! & A footbaggers defense Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 11:13 AM -0700 5/3/97, Wes Ratcliff wrote: >>ps. Wes, I cross-posted this because this so-called discussion is taking >I still don't see why you had to make a such a big deal about it. You >coulda just e-mailed me about it. Heh heh.. Wes (and a lot of other folks), you need to get used to Josh's (and my) not-so-obvious sense of humor. :-) He didn't mean any offense... It's probably too many barucha's in his youth... (If you're meant to get it, you'll get it.) Steve P.S. Now, any more arguing, do it in private, please. :-) Thanks. From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Sun May 4 13:08:50 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA08005 for footbag-outgoing; Sun, 4 May 1997 13:04:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA08001 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 4 May 1997 13:04:54 GMT Received: from ratcliff@advtel.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (7998) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA07996 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 13:04:54 GMT Received: from noc1.eatel.net (noc1.eatel.net [207.101.8.253]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA02953 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 06:05:12 -0700 Received: from p166 (max4-19.eatel.net [207.101.8.139]) by noc1.eatel.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA23032; Sun, 4 May 1997 08:32:49 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970504080517.007b5620@mail.advtel.net> X-Sender: ratcliff@mail.advtel.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 08:05:17 -0500 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Wes Ratcliff Subject: [footbag] Re: miraculous epiphany!! & A footbaggers defense Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org >Heh heh.. Wes (and a lot of other folks), you need to get used to Josh's >(and my) not-so-obvious sense of humor. :-) He didn't mean any offense... Yeah, I re-read my letter after I sent it, and it sounded kinda mean. :( Mine was also meant to be a little funny. That's the problem with e-mail. Never know what the other person is *really* thinking. Oh well, maybe it's that part that always keeps you on your toes. (yes, that's a pun) Anyway, Wes [:-)] <-- Hackman From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue May 6 06:31:01 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA15801 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 06:27:48 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA15797 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 May 1997 06:27:46 GMT Received: from mongooz@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (15794) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA15792 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 06:27:45 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA16760 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 23:28:21 -0700 Received: from localhost (mongooz@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA12392 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 23:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:28:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "A. Ronald" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Internet light-bulb joke (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Subject: Internet light-bulb joke >>Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take >>> to change a light bulb? >>> >>>A: 1,331: >>> 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail >>> list that the light bulb has been changed >>> 14 to share similar experiences of changing light >>> bulbs and how the light bulb could have been >>> changed differently. >>> 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. >>> 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about >>> changing light bulbs. >>> 53 to flame the spell checkers >>> 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about >>> the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness >>> to this mail list. >>> 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames. >>> 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and >>> to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb >>> 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, >>> alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing >>> light bulbs be stopped. >>> 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we >>> are all use light bulbs and therefore the posts >>> **are** relevant to this mail list. >>> 306 to debate which method of changing light >>> bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, >>> what brand of light bulbs work best for this >>> technique, and what brands are faulty. >>> 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of >>> different light bulbs >>> 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and >>> to post corrected URLs. >>> 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that >>> are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs >>> relevant to this list. >>> 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote >>> them including all headers and footers, and then >>> add "Me Too." >>> 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing >>> because they cannot handle the light bulb >>> controversy. >>> 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three." >>> 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. >>> 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup. >>> 47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion >>> was meant for, leave it here. >>> 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue May 6 06:36:04 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA15838 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 06:36:03 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA15834 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 May 1997 06:36:02 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (15831) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA15829 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 06:36:02 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA16791; Mon, 5 May 1997 23:36:35 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:38:00 -0700 To: "A. Ronald" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] Internet light-bulb joke Cc: footbag@footbag.org Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 11:28 PM -0700 5/5/97, A. Ronald wrote: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Subject: Internet light-bulb joke No jokes or other non-footbag-related e-mail messages are to be posted to the footbag listserve. Please don't let it happen again. Thanks. Steve From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue May 6 18:56:23 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA18133 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 18:55:37 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA18129 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 May 1997 18:55:35 GMT Received: from aloe@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (18126) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA18124 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 18:55:35 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA20622 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 11:56:15 -0700 Received: (from aloe@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA24256; Tue, 6 May 1997 11:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 11:56:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Juliet Pendray Subject: [footbag] merrypranksterism To: footbag@footbag.org cc: aloe@vcn.bc.ca Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org While newbie-surfing, have discovered what y'all probably know: That there are zillions of "web-cams" broadcasting semi-live allover the place. Would it not be fun to identify all those that are in public areas, accessible to footbaggers, and pick one particular day where we all go kick in front of those cameras simultaneously! :-) Wahoo! joooooliet From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue May 6 19:08:13 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA18245 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:08:07 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA18241 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:08:06 GMT Received: from vander@auburn.campus.mci.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (18238) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA18236 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:08:06 GMT Received: from aus-d.mp.campus.mci.net (aus-d.mp.campus.mci.net [208.140.84.24]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20704 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 12:08:46 -0700 Received: from 206.30.222.99 (s10-pm03.auburn.campus.mci.net [206.30.222.99]) by aus-d.mp.campus.mci.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA13553 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 15:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <336F8FB7.223E@auburn.campus.mci.net> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 14:08:23 -0600 From: "Kevin J. Vanderwall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] IRC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org If anyone has an IRC program (mIRC, Ircle, ect.) I'm trying to open a footbag chat channel. So, if you happen to be on the undernet, join #footbag. It may or may not be open, but myself(DaVinci) and a New Zealander(Stupot) keep it open when we're on. If we can get enough people we can register it making it permanent. It's real time chat and would be very beneficial for communication and education purposes especially for the long distance it cuts out. Keep on kickin. Kev. From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue May 6 22:47:08 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA19172 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 22:46:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA19168 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 May 1997 22:46:54 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (19165) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA19163 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 22:46:53 GMT Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu (bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22167 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 15:47:34 -0700 Received: from [147.134.107.135] (kie135.creighton.edu) by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA196598844; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:47:24 -0500 X-Sender: swingert@bluejay.creighton.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 05:00:15 -0600 To: footbag@footbag.org From: swingert@creighton.edu (Sean Wingert) Subject: [footbag] NEW Audio Page (www.top.net/footbag/htmls/engaged/audio.html) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I just finished overhauling my audio page for the Creighton Footbag Club! Now, instead of downloading large, sampled audio files, you can download MOD files (computer-sequenced music files which often sound like techno/rave music). For those of you who have heard music playing from Wes' Hackman page, you have heard one type of MOD playing--although there are MODs which come in Techno, Ambient, Hip-Hop, Top-40, and other genres. These files are not only small but are excellent footbag music because of their brilliant cadence. The Audio page describes how to make casette tapes from MODs, so that us footbaggers can have access to unlimited, free kickin' music!! Please take a peek: www.top.net/footbag/htmls/engaged/audio.html Sean From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed May 7 15:35:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA22286 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 15:34:54 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA22282 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 May 1997 15:34:53 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (22279) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA22277 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 15:34:52 GMT Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.70.135]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27160; Wed, 7 May 1997 08:35:41 -0700 Received: from rac10.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac10.wam.umd.edu [128.8.70.110]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11540; Wed, 7 May 1997 11:35:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac10.wam.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA21734; Wed, 7 May 1997 11:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 11:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705071535.LAA21734@rac10.wam.umd.edu> To: brat@footbag.org, mongooz@vcn.bc.ca Cc: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Internet light-bulb joke Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org make that 1,332. forgot the list administrator From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed May 7 16:27:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA22503 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 16:27:10 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for announce@majordomo.footbag.org (22258) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA22248 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 15:32:49 GMT Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.70.135]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27140; Wed, 7 May 1997 08:33:34 -0700 Received: from rac10.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac10.wam.umd.edu [128.8.70.110]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11413; Wed, 7 May 1997 11:33:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac10.wam.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA21592; Wed, 7 May 1997 11:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 11:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705071533.LAA21592@rac10.wam.umd.edu> To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Re: Western Regional Footbag Championships, May 24-26 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org anyone lookign for a male mixed doubles partner? five guys outta DC are going to be at Western REgionals. it woudl be fun- l8r- vince From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Sun May 11 11:27:34 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA07250 for footbag-outgoing; Sun, 11 May 1997 11:26:58 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA07246 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 11 May 1997 11:26:56 GMT Received: from durfduo@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (7243) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA07241 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 11:26:55 GMT From: Durfduo@aol.com Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com (emout12.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA21858 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 04:27:13 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id HAA18532 for footbag@footbag.org; Sun, 11 May 1997 07:27:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 07:27:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970511072712_-197710555@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Footbag Patents Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I stumbled across an interesting site "www.ibm.com/patents/" that offers free patent searches. I didn't go there to search for footbag patents but I got curious. There was at least 10 patents for different types of footbags. They're wordy, but interesting (see below for a sampling). After reading the patents I wondered how enforceable they really are. Would a slight modification allow one to escape patent infringement? The patent I found (filed in 1984) for a "seamless crochet game footbag" really made me wonder. I think it was Sipa Sipa's patent, but what about all the other crochet footbags on the market? I guess most are not made by large companies that could be easily sued. Anyone ever heard of any lawsuits regarding footbags? And what about the 17 year life of patents - is that an absolute cutoff or can they be extended? Any lawyers on the list? I'll try to do some more research to answer my own questions. Hope I didn't bore y'all. Read on if you're into patent language... I saw a couple for glow in the dark bags. Here's one filed in 1995: An improved game footbag which is durable and inelastic. The footbag is made of a sphere of soft light emitting plastic material which has a plurality of air holes in its surface. The sphere is filled with a fluid, light emitting particulate pellet filler material. The air holes enable air to escape upon compression, thereby giving the footbag inelasticity. The footbag may also include an opening of sufficient diameter to receive a light stick. At the same time, the plastic material is strong, giving the bag durability since woven seams, required in leather footbags, are not required. One filed in 1977 by Robert J. (John) Stalberger for the original 2 panel Hackysack: A game footbag designed to be kicked repeatedly into the air discloses a durable, flexible cover having a generally spherical shape when fully expanded and partially filled with material having substantially fluid characteristics. The cover consists of two dogbone-shaped pieces of flexible material attached together at their peripheries so as to form a collapsible ball. The fluid material includes a large plurality of small polythylene particles having low resilience. The interaction of the cover with the fluid-like material results in a footbag having a slow-action and uniform response to kicking. One by Dan Roddick (Mattel Sports right?) which I think is for a freestyle bag: A low-rebound, impact-deformable footbag includes plural panels having peripheral edges which are connected together to define an impact-deformable, semi-collapsible chamber which permits the footbag to assume an arbitrarily-changing, random shape in response to an externally-applied deformation force, such as kicking. The footbag includes at least one panel, a portion of which is formed from an apertured material for providing a view internally of the chamber. Plural lightweight, impact-damping filler members are disposed in the chamber, some of which being viewable through the apertured material. Such filler members are positioned within the chamber for interacting with other such filler members for damping such applied deformation force. There was also a patent filed in 1984 for a "seamless crochet game footbag" that did not have a description. I'm guessing it was by the Sipa Sipa folks. Scott Durfee Richmond, VA From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Sun May 11 16:55:18 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA07852 for footbag-outgoing; Sun, 11 May 1997 16:55:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA07848 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 11 May 1997 16:55:09 GMT Received: from aloe@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (7845) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA07843 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 16:55:03 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22863 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 09:55:24 -0700 Received: (from aloe@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA13146; Sun, 11 May 1997 09:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 09:55:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Juliet Pendray Subject: Re: [footbag] Footbag Patents To: Durfduo@aol.com cc: footbag@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <970511072712_-197710555@emout12.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Heya! That one you mentioned, filed in 1995 for the glow bag using light sticks... Holy Moly!!! Is that a proton?!!! Are they still being manufactured?!!! Where can I get them?!!! !!! jooooliet From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Sun May 11 17:22:40 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA07952 for footbag-outgoing; Sun, 11 May 1997 17:22:39 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA07948 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 11 May 1997 17:22:37 GMT Received: from aloe@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (7945) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA07943 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 17:22:37 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA22977 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 10:22:57 -0700 Received: (from aloe@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA22607; Sun, 11 May 1997 10:22:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 10:22:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Juliet Pendray Subject: [footbag] a tournament report.... To: footbag@footbag.org cc: aloe@vcn.bc.ca Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org [headline] Vancouver Kickers Invade New Territory - Onlookers Astonished! On a splendiferously sunny Saturday, a Pro/Am Footbag Net tourney slash KikNik was held at Jericho Beach Park. 18+ kickers competed, ate, drank, and got sunburnt. Yells, screams, laughter and strange bird calls rang out over the neighbourhood, attracting bemused spectators and summoning new players out of the woodwork. In the finals, Chard Cook and Francois "Gatekeeper" Leh pulled out a victory in three games from the ferocious and hungry team of Jack Ognistoff and Kevin Jenkins. Both teams are to be congratulated, particularly for refusing to be distracted by the antics of the audience! Thanks to the tourney director Jim "El Presidente" Derricott for making it all happen! -Juliet reporting really really unoffically for the...um, let's see...uh... the United Footbag Front (UFF!)- From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Sun May 11 23:48:15 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA08769 for footbag-outgoing; Sun, 11 May 1997 23:47:58 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA08764 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 11 May 1997 23:47:55 GMT Received: from hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (8761) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA08759 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 23:47:55 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24423 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 16:48:18 -0700 Received: from skull.cs.uidaho.edu (skull.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.108]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.1) with ESMTP id QAA09180; Sun, 11 May 1997 16:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by skull.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.0) with SMTP id QAA06522; Sun, 11 May 1997 16:48:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: skull.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 16:48:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Hillebrand To: Durfduo@aol.com cc: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Footbag Patents In-Reply-To: <970511072712_-197710555@emout12.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org > One by Dan Roddick (Mattel Sports right?) which I think is for a freestyle > bag: Wow, Dan Roddick, didn't he used to work with Wham-o? I remember that when I was in fifth or sixth grade at Anoakia School in Arcadia, CA, my classmate's father (whose last name was Roddick), came to our school for a Wham-o presentation. They showed us a lot of cool frisbee and Hacky Sack stuff. Boy's Life magazine even came and got our cub scout troop in some Ultimate Frisbee articles. Am I thinking of the same guy? ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 hootie AND phish blow From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon May 12 03:39:23 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA09529 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 12 May 1997 03:39:20 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA09525 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 12 May 1997 03:39:18 GMT Received: from eric@javaconnection.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (9522) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA09520 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 03:39:18 GMT Received: from sol.javaconnection.com (sol.javaconnection.com [207.155.18.98]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA25373 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 20:39:43 -0700 Received: from 207.155.18.104 ([207.155.18.104]) by sol.javaconnection.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA01548 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 18:51:14 -0700 Message-ID: <33769198.A94@javaconnection.com> Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 20:42:18 -0700 From: eric Reply-To: eric@javaconnection.com Organization: javaconnection X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Re: footbag pattents (Dan Roddick) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I meet dan Roddick a few months ago at the mattel headquarters out here in southern california. He was the Leading Guy for the sports division, (hacky sacks, frisbee, all kinds of wierd throwing devices, etc). I guess things have changed now. I dont know the whole story but I do believe he was apparently layed off. I remember him from tricks of the trade! oh well Eric Windsor O /|\ o \\ _// ` From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon May 12 04:16:49 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA09659 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 12 May 1997 04:16:48 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA09655 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 12 May 1997 04:16:46 GMT Received: from hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (9652) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA09650 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 04:16:46 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA25575 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 21:17:11 -0700 Received: from skull.cs.uidaho.edu (skull.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.108]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.1) with ESMTP id VAA13053; Sun, 11 May 1997 21:17:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by skull.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.0) with SMTP id VAA09597; Sun, 11 May 1997 21:17:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: skull.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 21:17:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Hillebrand To: eric cc: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Re: footbag pattents (Dan Roddick) In-Reply-To: <33769198.A94@javaconnection.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org > I met dan Roddick a few months ago at the mattel headquarters out here > in southern california. He was the Leading Guy for the sports division, > (hacky sacks, frisbee, all kinds of wierd throwing devices, etc). > > I guess things have changed now. I dont know the whole story but I do > believe he was apparently layed off. > > I remember him from tricks of the trade! Right. I remember thinking he was the guy I knew from my cub scout days when I saw Tricks of the Trade. ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 hootie AND phish blow From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon May 12 04:21:46 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA09683 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 12 May 1997 04:21:46 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA09679 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 12 May 1997 04:21:45 GMT Received: from hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (9676) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA09674 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 04:21:45 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA25595 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 21:22:09 -0700 Received: from skull.cs.uidaho.edu (skull.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.108]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.1) with ESMTP id VAA13110 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 21:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by skull.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.0) with SMTP id VAA09604 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 21:22:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: skull.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 21:22:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Hillebrand To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Dan Roddick Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Does anyone know if Dan Roddick has an email address? Thanks, ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 hootie AND phish blow From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon May 12 05:09:05 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA09912 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 12 May 1997 05:08:51 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA09908 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 12 May 1997 05:08:49 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (9905) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA09903 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 05:08:49 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA25782 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 22:09:14 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 22:10:46 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] Dan Roddick Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Matt Hillebrand wrote: >Does anyone know if Dan Roddick has an email address? Yes, Dan Roddick is at . Dan was the product manager for the Hacky Sack and Frisbee for MANY years. When it was at Wham-O, then when it moved to Kransco, and finally (until a couple of months ago) when it was at Mattel. He was laid off a couple of months ago. [It appears that Mattel is dumping the Frisbee and Hacky Sack lines (as well as Mori Boogie Boards, etc., etc.) and we should hear something soon. I hope the company that buys it actually gives a rat's ass about footbag. Otherwise we could lose a major source of funding for our events.] Without Dan, we (footbag) wouldn't be where we are today. He was the man behind making the World Footbag Championships a possibility almost every year it's been around (by making sure the event was adequately funded). He's also a member of the International Footbag Advisory Board (something tells me a lot of list members aren't familiar with IFAB; if not, you should be -- it's the rules body that governs this sport. Go look at http://ifab.footbag.org). He has always been a believer in the WFA and has helped keep them through thick and thin however he could. He's arguably the single most influential person in the sport. So I hope everyone remembers him now. :-) Dan was even on this e-mail list (believe it or not) for a long time. He's not a member right now, though... Steve From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed May 14 17:19:48 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA22361 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 14 May 1997 17:17:46 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA22356 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 14 May 1997 17:17:43 GMT Received: from martinco@videotron.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (22353) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA22351 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 17:17:43 GMT Received: from bizet.videotron.net (bizet.videotron.net [205.151.222.75]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10733 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 10:18:28 -0700 Received: from martinco (ppp084.207.mreg.videotron.net [207.96.207.84]) by bizet.videotron.net (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id NAA21237 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 13:18:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 13:18:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705141718.NAA21237@bizet.videotron.net> X-Sender: vlwobrie@pop.videotron.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: footbag@footbag.org From: martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?c=F4t=E9?= Subject: Re: [footbag] Footbag Patents Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 09:55 97-05-11 -0700, jooooliet wrote: >That one you mentioned, filed in 1995 for the glow bag using light sticks... >Holy Moly!!! Is that a proton?!!! Are they still being manufactured?!!! >Where can I get them?!!! If your looking for a good night footbag i think the NightHack (not sure of the way it's written) that Yves Archambault distribute, are pretty much the best. There's a battery, light bulb and a switch to turn it on and off. It look just like the proton, but much more convenient.(you don't need to keep the light sticks in the freezer) the first generation of nighthack were not very reliable. I think it's much better now. Anyway i'm sure he'll bring a couple in vancouver for the pre-wordls weekend so you could see for yourself. (maybe Scott Milne have some) martin From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu May 15 02:46:47 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA24646 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 02:46:39 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA24642 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 15 May 1997 02:46:38 GMT Received: from aloe@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (24639) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA24637 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 02:46:38 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca ([207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA13967 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 19:47:32 -0700 Received: (from aloe@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA04647; Wed, 14 May 1997 19:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:46:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Juliet Pendray Subject: [footbag] Footbag Patents (glowbags) To: martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?c=F4t=E9?= cc: footbag@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <199705141718.NAA21237@bizet.videotron.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Greetings Martin! > If your looking for a good night footbag i think the NightHack (not sure of > the way it's written) that Yves Archambault distribute, are pretty much the > best. There's a battery, light bulb and a switch to turn it on and off. It ....> > the first generation of nighthack were not very reliable. I think it's much > better now. ....> Good to hear of improvements in the new generation! Battery operated ones that I've kicked with before (don't know what brand) have been lots of fun & much more economical than lightstick ones... *but* I'm afraid to play rough with them as they've been known to break & tend to flicker on and off a lot. And hey, it's no fun if you can't play rough! ;-) C-Ya in Vancouver soon! jooooliet From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon May 19 04:43:39 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA10293 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 19 May 1997 04:42:35 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA10289 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 19 May 1997 04:42:33 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (10286) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA10284 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 04:42:33 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05558 for ; Sun, 18 May 1997 21:42:58 -0700 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA04216 for ; Sun, 18 May 1997 21:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 21:42:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Verhoef Anne To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] net partner Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi everyone! I am looking for an intermediate net partner for some tournaments this summer. Possibly someone who's willing to go open soon because I would like to finish my amature career as a net player by the end of the summer. Send replies to: marigold@vcn.bc.ca Thanks, Adrian Verhoef From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon May 19 07:12:20 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA10653 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 19 May 1997 07:10:55 GMT Received: from jlepine@ops.tiac.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (8837) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA08835 for ; Sun, 18 May 1997 19:26:36 GMT Received: from ops.tiac.net (ops.tiac.net [199.0.65.120]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03607 for ; Sun, 18 May 1997 12:26:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (jlepine@localhost) by ops.tiac.net (8.8.6.Beta3/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA05592 for ; Sun, 18 May 1997 15:26:59 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 15:26:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Jef Lepine To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Sewing bags, I need some help. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I've been sewing up some bags recently and I've been having some problems getting that last stitch to look right. I've been using ultrasuede and sewed up a a few 14's, 26, 32, and working on a 38 (snub38). Any hints on getting that last stitch to look 'right'? Any and all help is appreciated. -=Jef Lepine=- jlepine@tiac.net From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon May 19 07:50:24 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA10714 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 19 May 1997 07:50:22 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA10710 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 19 May 1997 07:50:21 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (10707) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA10705 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 07:50:21 GMT Received: from baygate.bayarea.net (baygate.bayarea.net [204.71.212.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA06678 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 00:50:48 -0700 Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by baygate.bayarea.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA09157 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 00:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 00:52:43 -0700 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [footbag] Western Regionals this weekend! Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi everyone. Just a quick note to remind you that Western Regionals is happening this weekend, May 24-26 (all three days -- Saturday, Sunday, and Monday) in Palo Alto, California. I also want to clarify a point about registration... I've gotten a lot of questions about this so I wanted to bring it to everyone's attention: there is no difference between preregistration and late registration fees (our tournament is nice that way :-)). The fees are no different if you get your registration in early. There is no difference. They are the same. The fees are the same whether you preregister or late-register. The reason I asked people to mail in their registration forms before the 14th was to ensure they got here in time -- if you have not mailed in your registration form, DO NOT mail it now! It's too late. It will not get here in time. I will not get it in time. It is too late to mail it in. If you have not already mailed your registration form in, then you must either attend the pre-registration party at the Welches' on Friday night (contact Jody Welch for directions), or show up by 8:30am to the site on Saturday morning. IF YOU KNOW you cannot be on site by 8:30am on Saturday morning but you plan to participate in any events at all, you *must* pre-register on Friday night, or make specific arrangements with me (this latter option is frowned upon, so consider the former). There is no way I can guarantee that you'll get a full player's pack (including a totally rad T-shirt and two cool footbags) if you don't register by the close of registration on Saturday morning. You cannot compete in any events on Saturday if you don't register by 9am Saturday morning. Is any of this making any sense? :-) Thanks. See many of you this weekend! For more information on the event, see http://gregorio.stanford.edu/footbag/regionals (print it out and keep it close to you and you can't go wrong :-)). Or CALL 1-415-308-KICK (-5425) to reach the tournament hot-line cellphone this coming week or weekend. Steve P.S. It's too late to mail in registration forms for Western Regionals. But don't fret -- just attend the preregistration party and/or be on-site by 8:30am on Saturday morning. P.P.S. Be on-site by 8:30am on Saturday morning and you don't have to preregister. P.P.P.S. Register early, register often. From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue May 20 18:58:59 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA04384 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 20 May 1997 18:58:04 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA04380 for footbag-digest@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 20 May 1997 18:58:02 GMT Received: from camiel@worldaccess.nl () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag-digest@majordomo.footbag.org (4377) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA04375 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 18:58:01 GMT Received: from tiga.worldaccess.nl (tiga.worldaccess.nl [194.178.56.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA17345 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 11:58:02 -0700 Received: from asd6-10.worldaccess.nl (asd6-10.worldaccess.nl [194.229.156.105]) by tiga.worldaccess.nl (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id SAA00922 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 18:58:11 GMT To: footbag-digest@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] footbag trick in song Date: Tue, 20 May 97 06:55:43 GMT Message-ID: From: camiel@worldaccess.nl (camiel@worldaccess.nl) X-Mailer: Quarterdeck Message Center [1.1] Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org helloooooo people! I was wondering about this song by Daft Punk (French house-duo): 'Around the world' Could they mean the trick? Ofcourse I am not completely serious about this, but.... who knows? And Ethan.. Have you already visited Amsterdam? byebyebyebye.......byebyebyebye....(that's enough I think) Camiel. From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed May 21 01:04:04 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA07181 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 01:03:48 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA07177 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 21 May 1997 01:03:44 GMT Received: from dbotkin@family.hampshire.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (7174) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA07172 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 01:03:44 GMT Received: from family.hampshire.edu ([192.101.188.104]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19332 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 18:03:52 -0700 Received: (from dbotkin@localhost) by family.hampshire.edu (8.7.4/8.7.3) id VAA08106 for footbag@footbag.org; Tue, 20 May 1997 21:07:47 -0400 From: Daniel Botkin Message-Id: <199705210107.VAA08106@family.hampshire.edu> Subject: [footbag] Kickin' for Peace Event To: footbag@footbag.org Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 21:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Massachusetts area kickers, I will be staging an outdoor footbag festival with free "hack" making workshops, games, raffles, live drumming and free refreshments, as well as a teen health fair to celebrate and thank all youth participants in the "Challenging Peer Violence" Family Planning educational program of 96-97. This event, dubbed "KICKIN' FOR PEACE IN PULASKI PARK" is slated for Saturday, May 24th at 11:00-2:00+ in Pulaski Park, downtown Northampton (next to the Academy of Music). Adults are welcome. Stylers and sewers are especially invited. Email me for further info or see you there. Daniel Botkin From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed May 21 13:43:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA10032 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 13:43:18 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA10028 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 21 May 1997 13:43:16 GMT Received: from david_vanderlaan@mail.okbu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (10025) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA10023 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 13:43:16 GMT Received: from mail.okbu.edu (mail.okbu.edu [164.58.90.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA22411 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 06:43:30 -0700 Received: from Computer_Center-Message_Server by mail.okbu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 21 May 1997 08:49:35 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 17:49:56 -0500 From: David Vanderlaan To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] BUKA Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hello all... Did anyone watch PE TV on Saturday morning? Yes, I realize that it is in the cartoon slot relatively early on Saturday morning, but I find that a good dose of mind rubbish is good for ones disposition. Anyhow, they gave about 5 minutes to the game of Buka ball, which seems to resemble net a great deal. Some moves were shown, including the flying clipper, and the word hacky sack was mentionned at least once (my head was full of sugary cereal - I had trouble concentrating). Pretty neat. Good day, David. From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed May 21 15:46:21 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA10603 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 15:45:51 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA10599 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 21 May 1997 15:45:49 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (10596) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA10594 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 15:45:49 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22952; Wed, 21 May 1997 08:46:00 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:47:47 -0700 To: David Vanderlaan From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] BUKA Cc: footbag@footbag.org Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 3:49 PM -0700 5/20/97, David Vanderlaan wrote: >Anyhow, they >gave about 5 minutes to the game of Buka ball, which seems to resemble >net a great deal. Some moves were shown, including the flying clipper, >and the word hacky sack was mentionned at least once PETV has also covered footbag -- keep watching and maybe you'll see it, too. It was a couple of years ago but they seem to re-air that show periodically. Scott Cleere set that one up (good job, Scott). And yes, most people know Takraw -- Buka is just a brand name; Takraw is the name of the sport. The King's Cup world Takraw championships are taking place in Bangkok in mid-June and the top four women footbag players are going to represent the US as the first women's national team (that'd be Jody Welch, Julie Symons, Tricia George, and Lisa McDaniel, in no particular order :-)). Steve From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed May 21 19:43:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA11810 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 19:43:26 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA11806 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 21 May 1997 19:43:25 GMT Received: from humungis@kode.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (11803) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA11801 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 19:43:24 GMT Received: from main.blclinks.net ([206.250.130.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA24568 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 12:43:40 -0700 Received: from blclinks.blclinks.net (pm1-05.blclinks.net [206.250.130.20]) by main.blclinks.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04747 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 11:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33834F8A.33E3@Kode.net> Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:39:54 -0400 From: Paul Munger Reply-To: HuMungis@kode.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] E-mail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I would like to announce to everyone that Hu-Mungis now has a new e-mail address. HuMungis@blclinks.net Peace. Hu-Mungis From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Fri May 23 18:13:39 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01014 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 23 May 1997 18:11:37 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01010 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 23 May 1997 18:11:35 GMT Received: from glennwhitaker@emails.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1007) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01005 for ; Fri, 23 May 1997 18:11:33 GMT Received: from loki.atcon.com (loki.atcon.com [199.166.213.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04809 for ; Fri, 23 May 1997 11:11:35 -0700 Received: from mail.auracom.com (ts1-d156.tru.atcon.com [199.126.230.156]) by loki.atcon.com (8.8.5/1.359) with SMTP id OAA32640 for ; Fri, 23 May 1997 14:11:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:11:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970523151402.302fcb32@emails.com> X-Sender: glennwhitaker@emails.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: footbag@footbag.org From: Glenndon Whitaker Subject: [footbag] Introduction Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi, My name is Glenndon Whitaker. Just thought I would introduce myself on the mailing list, so here goes: Footbag was introduced to me about six months ago, which would make me a beginner. I have really just started practising some things, so any help would be great! Anyways, my intersts include the internet and Air Cadets. I am a Sergeant in the 77 Arrowhead Squadron, Royal Canadian Air Cadets. I have been on two summer courses, and this summer I will be spending six weeks in Cold Lake Alberta on one. I live outside of Truro Nova Scotia Canada. By the looks of it, I'm missing out on alot of things living in Nova Scotia where there is NO footbag interest. But this summer I'm moving to Kingston Ontario. Does anyboy know if there is much for footbag there? Thanks, Glenndon From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Sat May 24 15:17:29 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA05256 for footbag-outgoing; Sat, 24 May 1997 15:17:21 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA05252 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 24 May 1997 15:17:19 GMT Received: from kuchma@golden.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (5249) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA05247 for ; Sat, 24 May 1997 15:17:18 GMT Received: from golden.net (golden.golden.net [199.166.210.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA10380 for ; Sat, 24 May 1997 08:17:28 -0700 Received: from [207.6.168.103] (cisco2-103.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.103]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA17615; Sat, 24 May 1997 11:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 11:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Glenndon Whitaker , footbag@footbag.org From: kuchma@golden.net (Mike Kuchma) Subject: [footbag] Footbag in Ontario Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hey Glenndon! I don't live in Kingston, but I do live about 3 hours from there in a city called Waterloo. Basically, footbag is kind of small in ONtario, but if you're lucky and you do enough snooping around, you'll find a club or two here and there. Toronto has a pretty good net club from what I hear, but freestyle's more your game you're best to hook up with me and my boys. If you're ever in the Kitchener/Waterloo area, give me a call (519) 886-8324. We're not amazing, but it don't get much better than us 'round these parts. Later -- Kuch From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Sun May 25 00:45:15 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA06835 for footbag-outgoing; Sun, 25 May 1997 00:44:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA06831 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 25 May 1997 00:44:31 GMT Received: from knr@netcom.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (6828) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA06826 for ; Sun, 25 May 1997 00:44:30 GMT Received: from tor-srs1.netcom.ca (tor-srs1.netcom.ca [207.93.1.148]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12445 for ; Sat, 24 May 1997 17:44:45 -0700 Received: from default (mon-pq4-36.netcom.ca [207.181.92.100]) by tor-srs1.netcom.ca (8.8.5/NETCOM) id UAA09069; Sat, 24 May 1997 20:44:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705250044.UAA09069@tor-srs1.netcom.ca> From: "Kevin Riemer" To: , "Glenndon Whitaker" Subject: Re: [footbag] Introduction Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:44:26 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Does anyone remember the kicker from Albany (I think his name is Dan) who was going to school in Kingston, Ontario? Scott Durfee, Ted Frisch - Albany kickers - you must know his name. If he's still in Kingston, he'd be someone Glenndon should be in touch with. Sharon Speck ---------- > From: Glenndon Whitaker > To: footbag@footbag.org > Subject: [footbag] Introduction > Date: Friday, May 23, 1997 2:11 PM > > Hi, > > My name is Glenndon Whitaker. > > Just thought I would introduce myself on the mailing list, so here goes: > > Footbag was introduced to me about six months ago, which would make me a > beginner. I have really just started practising some things, so any help > would be great! > > Anyways, my intersts include the internet and Air Cadets. I am a Sergeant > in the 77 Arrowhead Squadron, Royal Canadian Air Cadets. I have been on two > summer courses, and this summer I will be spending six weeks in Cold Lake > Alberta on one. I live outside of Truro Nova Scotia Canada. > > By the looks of it, I'm missing out on alot of things living in Nova Scotia > where there is NO footbag interest. But this summer I'm moving to Kingston > Ontario. Does anyboy know if there is much for footbag there? > > Thanks, > > Glenndon > From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue May 27 19:01:55 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA20338 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 19:00:26 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA20333 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 27 May 1997 19:00:23 GMT Received: from scott@creativeathletics.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (20330) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA20328 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 19:00:22 GMT Received: from gridsat.thegrid.net (gridsat.thegrid.net [206.190.65.4]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28911 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 12:01:02 -0700 Received: from PC_cleerecr8v.thegrid.net (sc81-196.thegrid.net [206.190.81.196]) by gridsat.thegrid.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA14433 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 12:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199705212350.XAA12986@eniac.yak.net.taz> References: Conversation <199705212350.XAA12986@eniac.yak.net.taz> with last message <199705212350.XAA12986@eniac.yak.net.taz> Priority: Normal To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 From: SCOTT CLEERE Subject: [footbag] Re: Footbag Digest V31 #153 - correction Date: Tue, 27 May 97 13:01:26 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi Ya'll Steve G. mentioned that I set up the PE TV piece. Just for the record, it was Bruce who made the initial contact and spun it my way. Thanks Bruce. Scott Cleere Scott Cleere From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed May 28 02:03:49 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA23097 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 02:03:43 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA23093 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 28 May 1997 02:03:41 GMT Received: from martinco@videotron.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (23090) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA23088 for