From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 1 20:14:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA00262 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:13:37 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA00258 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:13:35 GMT Received: from ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (255) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA00253 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:13:29 GMT Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00356 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 12:13:29 -0800 Received: from coinc0.coin.missouri.edu (coinc0 [198.209.253.6]) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20696 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 14:13:09 -0600 (CST) Received: by coinc0.coin.missouri.edu (8.8.5) id OAA15955; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 14:13:07 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 14:13:07 -0600 (CST) From: Ida Bettis Fogle X-Sender: ifogle@coinc0 To: footbag listserve Subject: [footbag] footbag in Mothering Magazine Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hey! A footbag sighting in Mothering Magazine - no text about footbag, but in with an article on natural skin care for teens there's a large photo of a *girl* playing footbag. Looks like she's using an Adidas bag. Ida Bettis Fogle; ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 6 04:35:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA01594 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 04:34:32 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA01584 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 04:34:29 GMT Received: from lrdtalon@ideasign.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1578) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA01574 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 04:34:26 GMT Received: from internet3.ideasign.com ([208.230.216.4]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09836 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:01:48 -0800 Received: from a3p41.ideasign.com ([208.230.216.198]) by internet3.ideasign.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-34948U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA70 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:04:02 -0600 Received: by a3p41.ideasign.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BD19DA.1E3E3480@a3p41.ideasign.com>; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:02:03 -0600 Message-ID: <01BD19DA.1E3E3480@a3p41.ideasign.com> From: lrdtalon@ideasign.com (Talon) To: "'footbag@footbag.org'" Subject: [footbag] training Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:47:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I am new to this list and I was wondering if there is anything out there for beginners to use to learn tricks and various move? From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 6 04:35:47 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA01592 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 04:34:31 GMT Received: from internet3.ideasign.com ([208.230.216.4]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09838 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:01:51 -0800 Received: from a3p41.ideasign.com ([208.230.216.198]) by internet3.ideasign.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-34948U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA179 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:04:05 -0600 Received: by a3p41.ideasign.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BD19DA.1FE97380@a3p41.ideasign.com>; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:02:06 -0600 Message-ID: <01BD19DA.1FE97380@a3p41.ideasign.com> From: lrdtalon@ideasign.com (Talon) To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Training Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:52:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Market.NET id LAA09838 Status: Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I am new to this list and I was wondering if there was anyone in the Sioux Falls, SD area that would be willing to train someone or know of a way to train for specific moves. Talon From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 6 06:40:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA02377 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:40:01 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA02373 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:39:59 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (2370) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA02368 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:39:54 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F15.hotmail.com [207.82.250.26]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA22682 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:39:55 -0800 Received: (qmail 7290 invoked by uid 0); 6 Jan 1998 06:39:54 -0000 Message-ID: <19980106063954.7289.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.109.224.185 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 05 Jan 1998 22:39:53 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.109.224.185] From: "The 'Mazin Josh Penney" To: lrdtalon@ideasign.com Cc: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] training Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 22:39:53 PST Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org >I am new to this list and I was wondering if there is anything out there for beginners to use to learn tricks and various move? Freestyle moves ? First thing you need is the proper equipment. Get.a pair of lightweight sneakers with lots of support. Then get a facile footbag. Download video from Footbag Worldwide < http://www.footbag.org/ >. Lots of video. Skool it hard. Buy 'Tricks of the Trade' from the WFA. Come back in a year and show us what happened. or Net? Keep same said sneakers, but get a vinyl footbag instead, find someone in your area who owns a net and knows how to play. Be really friendly to them and don't ever get off their court. make them batter you into submission until you can Shataf the Skookum players back to the Punic Wars. Essentially, you need very little money and more motivation than you've ever mustered before. Unless we're talking Golf, in which case I can tell you right now to switch to Tiddly Winks or Diamond cutting. Either are easier. JP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 6 19:00:17 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA02609 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:59:29 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA02605 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:59:28 GMT Received: from jonebc00@uleth.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (2602) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA02600 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:59:27 GMT Received: from mercury.online.uleth.ca (mercury.online.uleth.ca [142.66.33.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA31428 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:59:29 -0800 Received: from djones.city.lethbridge.ab.ca ([198.161.86.127]) by mercury.online.uleth.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA753 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:56:03 -0700 Message-ID: <34B27FEB.3DC@uleth.ca> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 12:03:07 -0700 From: "Brian Jones" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] clipper? help Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org well I too am new to this sport and have seen those awesome movies and want to know how to achieve that clipper stall/delay. Any tips are appreciated! Brian From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 6 22:16:02 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA01351 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:14:51 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA01347 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:14:50 GMT Received: from ik0060@adan.kingston.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1344) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA01342 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:14:49 GMT Received: from adan.kingston.net (adan.kingston.net [205.189.48.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02209 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:14:50 -0800 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by adan.kingston.net (8.7.5/8.7.3/border1) id SAA06243 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:14:23 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:14:23 -0500 Received: from 98-g2.kingston.net(205.210.52.98) via SMTP by adan.kingston.net, id smtpda06230; Tue Jan 6 23:14:19 1998 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980106171042.25779888@adan.kingston.net> X-Sender: ik0060@adan.kingston.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: footbag@footbag.org From: Jeremy Subject: [footbag] judging freestyle Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hey people, does anyone out there have documentation on judging freestyle footbag? thanks. -Jeremy From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 6 22:19:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA01411 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:19:42 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA01407 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:19:41 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1404) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA01402 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:19:41 GMT Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02398 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:19:41 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA26331; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:19:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from brat-2.atext.com(204.62.245.116) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma026300; Tue Jan 6 16:19:10 1998 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19980106171042.25779888@adan.kingston.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:20:11 -0800 To: Jeremy From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] judging freestyle Cc: footbag@footbag.org Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 3:14 PM -0800 1/6/98, Jeremy wrote: >does anyone out there have documentation on judging freestyle footbag? The official rules are online: http://ifab.footbag.org Steve From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 7 03:15:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA04370 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:15:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA04366 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:15:09 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (4363) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA04361 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:15:08 GMT Received: from imo09.mx.aol.com (imo09.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.101]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07209 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:15:10 -0800 From: Nageylum Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:15:01 EST To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] move? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org hi all, i've just got my copy of footbag world, and inside I saw a move that i've never hear of, and I have no clue what a "scorpion tails" are, if it's not to much trouble would some one mind discribing this move? From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 7 03:30:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA04431 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:30:27 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA04427 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:30:26 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (4424) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA04422 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:30:26 GMT Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07524 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:30:29 -0800 Received: from [204.62.245.116] (brat-2 [204.62.245.116]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09193; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:30:20 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:31:11 -0800 To: Nageylum From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] move? Cc: footbag@footbag.org Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 7:15 PM -0800 1/6/98, Nageylum wrote: > i've just got my copy of footbag world, and inside I saw a move that >i've never hear of, and I have no clue what a "scorpion tails" are, if it's >not to much trouble would some one mind discribing this move? Please send queries of this nature to the "freestyle@footbag.org" list. This list (footbag@footbag.org) is for general footbag discussion. Questions about specific tricks should really go to the freestyle list. Just for future reference. Now, to answer your question, the moves list is on the FAQ -- all new members to this list should read it. Go to http://www.footbag.org/faq/ for more information, and see the move list at http://www.footbag.org/faq/moves.txt. Steve From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 03:03:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA06679 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:03:01 GMT Received: from brent.welch@eng.sun.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (6281) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA06279 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:00:31 GMT Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA27225 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:00:36 -0800 Received: from Eng.Sun.COM ([129.146.1.25]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id SAA13210 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:00:35 -0800 Received: from sage.Eng.Sun.COM (sage.Eng.Sun.COM [152.70.4.131]) by Eng.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) with SMTP id SAA12589 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:00:33 -0800 Received: from sage by sage.Eng.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA11375; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:00:33 -0800 Message-Id: <199801080200.SAA11375@sage.Eng.Sun.COM> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 1/7/98 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] how to get more people? X-URL: http://www.beedub.com/ X-Face: "HxE|?EnC9fVMV8f70H83&{fgLE.|FZ^$>@Q(yb#N,Eh~N]e&]=>r5~UnRml1:4EglY{9B+ :'wJq$@c_C!l8@<$t,{YUr4K,QJGHSvS~U]H`<+L*x?eGzSk>XH\W:AK\j?@?c1o Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org An event we started in the Bay area that I really like is the pro-am net tournament. You have a list of everyone that is there, and you roughly order them from best to most novice. Then pair up the ends of your list and work to the middle. That way the top players team up with brand new players. We probably schedule this at the wrong time, in the fall at the end of the season, but we have done it every year for some time now. I know, for example, the winner of last years intermediate world championships singles net, Edwin Veltman, got his start this way. -- Brent Welch Sun Labs brent.welch@sun.com From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 9 15:16:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00369 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:12:32 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00365 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:12:30 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (362) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00360 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:12:29 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA23971 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:12:29 -0800 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.03.0014/4c.adoc) with ESMTP id ra136595 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:21:51 -0600 Subject: [footbag] Zits Comic Exposure Message-Id: <000000514562967203885@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 09:18:05 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.8 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: footbag@footbag.org (Footbag Listserve) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Don't know how may of you get papers that carry the "Zits" comic strip, = but in the Wednesday, Jan. 7th. edition of our local rag, the comic featured = "Hack." The first two panels were the main character in dismal attempts to kick the bag; at first he was "Puff, Puff"ing, then "Wheeze, Cough Cough"ing, and finally shown completely out of breath going "Hack Hack Hack Hack". In the last panel, of of his friends in the background made the comment, "So = that's why they call it 'Hack'." I got a good laugh out of it, anyway. -- Derrick Fogle -- Heartland Eye Banks -- dfogle@mlerf.org -- From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 12 21:23:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03097 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:22:16 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03093 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:22:15 GMT Received: from f0ne@concentric.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (3090) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA03088 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:22:15 GMT Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA25549 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:22:17 -0800 Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman.concentric.net [207.155.184.71]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.8/(97/11/17 5.8)) id QAA29929; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:22:16 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from fone (cnc003056.concentric.net [206.83.89.56]) by newman.concentric.net (8.8.8) id QAA27726; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:22:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34BA895F.2B61@concentric.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:21:35 -0600 From: Steve Wallace X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-GZone (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] control Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hey, I was just wondering if anyone had any hints on keeping control of the bag, I know practice practice practice. I have been but it is still really hard to keep the bag from flying away from me .... i guess it might just come with time but hey doesnt hurt to ask =) steve From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 12 21:52:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03248 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:52:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03244 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:52:07 GMT Received: from aloe@intouch.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (3241) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA03239 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:52:07 GMT Received: from srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (srv1.reelwest.bc.ca [207.194.197.99]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA26137 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:52:10 -0800 Received: from 207.194.197.147 (unverified [207.194.197.147]) by srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:51:26 -0800 Message-ID: <34BA1F9F.438D@intouch.bc.ca> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:50:34 +0000 From: "J. Pendray" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Wallace CC: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] control References: <34BA895F.2B61@concentric.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Steve Wallace wrote: > I was just wondering if anyone had any hints on keeping control of the > bag, I know practice practice practice. I have been but it is still > really hard to keep the bag from flying away from me .... i guess it > might just come with time but hey doesnt hurt to ask =) Well there are a few basic things i can think of that really help: Shoes: - Get shoes with the flattest inside and outside surfaces that you can find, so that the bag doesn't roll off so easily. Adidas Rod Lavers are the best, but there are lots of brands that work well. The Bag: - use footbags that are squishy enough to stick to your feet! Most of the really cheap bags are too hard. Failing all else, do some surgery to the bag you have now - remove some of the beads in it. Much more fun tho to get a skookum cool bag from one of real footbag makers. Eyeballs: - check if your eyes are *really* on the footbag all-the-way-to-your-foot! Its a pretty common thing to find that you are looking away before it contacts your foot. Zippedydoodah, joooliet "wish i wuz goin to arizona" pendray From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 12 22:20:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03424 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:19:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03420 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:19:59 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (3417) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03415 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:19:58 GMT Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.177]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26764 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:20:01 -0800 From: Nageylum Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:09:48 EST To: f0ne@concentric.net, footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] control Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org well practice does make perfect, but as long as you go back between your legs, it shouldn't take long to get the control you want happy kicking Josh Childs From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 17 19:35:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01092 for footbag-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:34:44 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01088 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:34:41 GMT Received: from tuhuge@sfsu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1085) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01083 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:34:41 GMT Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03956 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:34:44 -0800 Received: from tuhuge.sfsu.edu (madmax-14.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.14]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA28188 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:34:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980116233359.00692134@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:33:59 -0800 To: footbag@footbag.org From: 2 x 4 Subject: [footbag] Where's Kenny? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I was wondering why kenny wasn't on the cover of the current footbag world. You think after like 40-50 world titles and after his emontial retirment he would at least be on the cover. What's up with that? There should be an issue dedicated to him and his great career. 2 Huge P.S. This is not a dis to Mark V. who is on the cover. From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 17 22:41:54 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA01475 for footbag-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:40:36 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA01471 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:40:35 GMT Received: from schr4160@tao.sou.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1468) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA01466 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:40:35 GMT Received: from TAO.sou.edu (Tao.sou.edu [140.211.92.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06692 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:40:38 -0800 Received: from 206.151.159.23 (ip21.sou.mind.net [206.151.159.23]) by TAO.sou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA06706 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:43:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34C0C515.17F8@tao.sou.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:49:57 +0000 From: "schrodt, forest" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] new moves? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I know that there is allways people asking about moves and I hope I am not being redundent in asking about a few myself. I have been developing my gyrating sets and this has opened up some pretty big moves that were previously unavalable to me. I have started hitting moebius and have come really close to hitting gyrating drifter (amadeus?). I have been thinking that it must be possible to do a gyrating blur or even (I know it is pushing it) gyrating blurry torque. I was wondering if anyone can do these two moves and what they are called. Thanks for your help, a very dizzy Forest. From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 19 19:02:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01240 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:00:06 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01236 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:00:03 GMT Received: from aloe@intouch.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1233) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01231 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:00:03 GMT Received: from srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (srv1.reelwest.bc.ca [207.194.197.99]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA00468 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:00:04 -0800 Received: from 207.194.197.209 (unverified [207.194.197.209]) by srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:59:48 -0800 Message-ID: <34C331DB.509A@intouch.bc.ca> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:58:35 +0000 From: "J. Pendray" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Shhhh! Don't wake Amy.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Shhhh! Don't wake Amy.... (since Tournament Directors need their rest!) .....but can someone give some news on what happened in Arizona this weekend?! waiting breathless for a response (turning blue), Juliet From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 20 21:34:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02610 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:29:31 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02606 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:29:29 GMT Received: from awestber@sedona.intel.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (2603) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02601 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:29:29 GMT Received: from pan.ch.intel.com (pan.ch.intel.com [143.182.246.24]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28238 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:29:31 -0800 Received: from sedona.intel.com (sedona.intel.com [143.182.218.21]) by pan.ch.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26744 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:29:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from highbank (highbank.ch.intel.com [143.182.223.83]) by sedona.intel.com (8.7.6/8.7.3paulmail) with SMTP id OAA168654 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:29:20 -0700 From: Amy Westberg~ Received: by highbank (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/) id AA18486; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:29:19 -0700 Message-Id: <9801202129.AA18486@highbank> Subject: [footbag] Phoenix Results To: footbag@footbag.org Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:29:19 +22305133 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi all, I just want to say thanks to everyone who came and supported us in the 2nd Annual Air-A-Zona Footbag Net Championships. We had a great turnout (53 competitors total) and the weather was incredible. (70s) I hope that even more people will join us next year. I would like to ask you all to let me know your opinion about having this tournament be 3 days next year. We just don't seem to have enough sunlight with so many people, and we were forced to play matches to 11 instead of 15, and we still had problems. Martin Luther King day is a holiday for some, but not for others (I'm included in the "not for others") At any rate, it is a great time to take a couple vacation days and enjoy the weather here, so I think if we use 3 days instead of 2, then we won't be so pressed for time. Finals matches would take place on Monday. Anyway, I would like to know if this would encourage, discourage, or in no way effect your decision in coming to the tournament next year. Thanks to all our sponsors...Mag Hughes W.E. C.A.R.E. Sports, Valley Embroidery, and Eldorado Park for helping us with the great prizes, shirts, hats, and site. Tournament Results (only to 4th place...will post all results later) Open Singles: 1. Randy Mulder 2. Emmanuel Bouchard 3. Rick Bates (Gator has your money) 4. Chris Gator Routh Open Doubles: 1. Emmanuel Bouchard/Chris Gator Routh 2. Patrick Asswad/Sebastien Perron 3. Andrew Morgan/Alexis Dechenes 4. Jim Caveney/Sean Flynn Open Mixed Doubles: 1. Emmanuel Bouchard/Amy Westberg 2. Brent Welch/Jody Welch 3. Alexis Dechenes/Julie Symons 4. Sean Flynn/Evanne La Marche Women's Singles 1. Julie Symons 2. Lisa McDaniel 3. Tina Lewis 4. Amy Westberg Women's Doubles: 1. Julie Symons/Jody Welch 2. Lisa McDaniel/Evanne La Marche 3. Amy Westberg/Tina Lewis 4. Heather Muggleton/Lonya Julin Intermediate Singles: 1. Ben Hutchinson 2. Chris Young 3. Lonya Julin 4. Garrett Young 5. Shay Novice Singles: 1. Shay 2. Colton 3. Robert Lee 4. Alex Spears From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 20 22:12:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02831 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:10:22 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02822 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:10:21 GMT Received: from schr4160@tao.sou.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (2819) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02817; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:10:21 GMT Received: from TAO.sou.edu (Tao.sou.edu [140.211.92.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29084; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:10:24 -0800 Received: from 206.151.159.47 (ip44.sou.mind.net [206.151.159.47]) by TAO.sou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA25112; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:13:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34C4B27B.5B1C@tao.sou.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:19:39 +0000 From: "schrodt, forest" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] new moves? (reposted on freestyle discussion) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I know that there is allways people asking about moves and I hope I am not being redundent in asking about a few myself. I have been developing my gyrating sets and this has opened up some pretty big moves that were previously unavalable to me. I have started hitting moebius and have come really close to hitting gyrating drifter (vortex). I have been thinking that it must be possible to do a gyrating blur or even (I know it is pushing it) gyrating blurry torque. I was wondering if anyone can do these two moves and what they are called. Thanks for your help, a very dizzy Forest. PS: Steve I hope this is what you meant by reposting on freestyle@footbag.org I did not mean to put it on footbag@footbag.org I hope you will forgive my insulence, I am still learning how to use the footbag discussion.:) From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 22 03:22:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA05246 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 03:21:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA05242 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 03:21:59 GMT Received: from aloe@intouch.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (5239) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA05237 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 03:21:58 GMT Received: from srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (srv1.reelwest.bc.ca [207.194.197.99]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA30340 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:22:03 -0800 Received: from 207.194.197.132 (unverified [207.194.197.132]) by srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:22:15 -0800 Message-ID: <34C64A93.6C4D@intouch.bc.ca> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:20:51 +0000 From: "J. Pendray" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: awestber@sedona.intel.com CC: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Phoenix kicking turnout Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hey Amy & Hey All! Something Andy R. mentioned upon his return to Vancouver... ...That almost all the major footbag clubs in north america were represented at the Arizona tourney! Although am sure everyone that was there knows this, am posting to the list cuz i figger... well... that is just *sooo* cool! What an excellent turnout! Congrats on a stupendous Second Annual to Amy and to all the tournament staff 'n' volunteers. juliet From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Sun Jan 25 19:18:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA00857 for footbag-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:16:50 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA00853 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:16:49 GMT Received: from gmarie@silcom.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (850) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA00848 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:16:49 GMT Received: from beach.silcom.com (beach.silcom.com [199.201.128.19]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12142 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:16:50 -0800 Received: from dial (pm6-40.sba1.avtel.net [207.71.222.168]) by beach.silcom.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA05410 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:13:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:13:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199801251913.LAA05410@beach.silcom.com> X-Sender: gmarie@mail.silcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: footbag@footbag.org From: Gay Marie Subject: [footbag] SHoes ^Brandon Parker Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Does anyone else use Birkinstocks to hack with, I would like to get some Lavers but I dont have the flow right now, and can any one give me a good profile on the Legend footbag. Thanx: Brandon parker From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 26 17:42:47 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01335 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:40:44 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01331 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:40:44 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1328) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01326 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:40:43 GMT Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA32509 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:40:44 -0800 Received: from [207.208.136.169] (d169.focal.interaccess.com [207.208.136.169]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id LAA00864 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:34:55 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:34:55 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: footbag@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: [footbag] Seinfeld on FB Golf... Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi Footbaggers! I just saw an AmEx commercial starring Jerry Seinfeld. The Grocery Store one. There is a scene that is in a grocery aisle, the camera is mounted to the front of the cart and facing Jerry who is about 30 feet away down the aisle. He pulls something off the shelf and putts it into the shopping cart (the item flies from his foot, directly into the camera) with his right inside kick. Having the empirical knowledge of the difficulty of the 30-foot putt, I am wondering just when Jerry Seinfeld found the time to go train footbag golf with Steve Smith? Hmmmm.... See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 27 02:47:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05856 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:46:45 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05852 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:46:43 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (5849) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA05847 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:46:42 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA12995 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:46:47 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.83] ([206.66.71.64]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA05844 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:46:41 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:48:17 -0800 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [footbag] Anyone missing a net from Arizona? Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi folks. Chris Young asked me to let people know that he has someone's net from the Arizona tournament two weekends ago. If you're missing a net that you took to the Air-A-Zona tourney, please e-mail Chris at . Steve From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 27 05:01:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA06526 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:01:01 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA06522 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:00:59 GMT Received: from jcobbjim@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (6519) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA06517 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:00:59 GMT Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.172]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA15619 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:01:04 -0800 From: JCobbjim Message-ID: <751a6e70.34cd68d0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:55:41 EST To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] The thread that unravelled... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Happy New Year Net Lovers, Congrats to the competitors at the Phoenix Touney. For them and for those of us who can only think about kicking...... Let's Free the Plane! Why? 1......More jousting adds to the excitement of the game. 2......Athleticism should not be penalized. 3......The "no contact" rule is extremely difficult to enforce objectively 4......No rule shuld inhibit the urge to stretch for the bag Well that should get us started. I could not find a thread on point in the archives. Some have thought long and hard(on both sides) about this. If you haven't, please take some time before jumping in. There are strong feelings on both sides..remember the golden rule :). Kick freely Jim ps) I took the liberty of using that term(free the plane) from a top top top player whom I heard use it last year. Please be nice.;) From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 27 05:14:38 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA06595 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:14:32 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA06591 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:14:31 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (6588) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA06586 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:14:30 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA15925 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:14:36 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.83] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA06583; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:14:25 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <751a6e70.34cd68d0@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:16:07 -0800 To: JCobbjim From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] The thread that unravelled... Cc: footbag@footbag.org Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 8:55 PM -0800 1/26/98, JCobbjim wrote: >Let's Free the Plane! For those of you who don't know what that means, let me clarify. In footbag net, players may "break the plane" of the net by extending their legs beyond the net, as long as they don't touch the player on the other side (that's called a "contact foul" on the crossing player) and as long as they don't touch the net (that's a "net foul" which is never legal in any context, unless the bag has been "dead" for more than 3 seconds). So Jim's advocating eliminating the "contact foul" from the rules, making it possible for players to reach over the net and kick other players, even if such kids cause them to foul or miss the footbag. Now, for my personal opinion... Are you *insane*!? >1......More jousting adds to the excitement of the game. Jousting has *not* suffered because of the contact foul rule. In fact, I'd argue that in recent years, jousting (mid-air battles over the net to see who can get to the bag first) has increased amazingly. >2......Athleticism should not be penalized. But injuring other players should. >3......The "no contact" rule is extremely difficult to enforce objectively Not with an official -- in all final matches we use officials as line judges and contact/plane/net-foul judges. It is always left to players' sense of sportsmanship when judges aren't present, and when conflicts arise, the point is usually replayed. This is true for all other fouls, and this foul (which is potentially injurious) is no different. >4......No rule shuld inhibit the urge to stretch for the bag That's why you are allowed to break the plane of the net. But it is not allowed to kick another player (you may not touch a player under the net, by the way), nor to touch the net. The pinnacle of athleticism is the ability to cross the plane of the net, smash the bag, and retract without touching the net or the other player. Sloppy play over the net is not advised, and should not be rewarded. >Well that should get us started. I could not find a thread on point in the >archives. I think we probably talked about it loooong ago, but those archives are not online. Thanks for checking first. It's always fun to debate these types of things on the list. Thanks for starting the thread. Of course, Dave (Dr. Fly-High) Bernard has a website dedicated to "freeing the plane" -- you can find it by going to his club's home page at http://www.footbag.org/clublist/npr Steve From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 27 15:52:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00367 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:50:34 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00363 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:50:32 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (360) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00358 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:50:31 GMT Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA25649 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:50:30 -0800 Received: from rac8.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac8.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.148]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA22378; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:50:27 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac8.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA18334; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:50:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:50:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199801271550.KAA18334@rac8.wam.umd.edu> To: JCobbjim@aol.com, footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] The thread that unravelled... Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org The rule stipulaing that contacts made above the plane are fouls on the crosser does not- - inhibit jousting, only unskilled jousting - inhibit athleticism, only demands a greater skill - inhibit strecthing for the bag, only asks that it is done with greater accuracy. The goal of all disciplines of footbag is to demonstrate greater control over the footbag. So all contacts deliberately made within a contest between two players or teams over who controls the footbag the best should be made with the footbag only. Of course, incidental contacts are likely to occur when two players go for the same object in an area they can both reach. In these intsances the potential arises that one player will be disrupted in an attempt to control the footbag by incidental contacts. This is the reason for the crossplane foul ruling- a player being contacted is interrupted in any of their attempts to contact the footbag- their ability to demonstrate how well they control the footbag is disrupted by the actions of the other player, so a foul is declared. The action does not have to be intentional for it to be a foul against the contacted player- either way a players skills are being thwarted by something other than greater skill. Even if contact with the footbag is made before any cross plane foul, there is an interruption in skill demonstration- the contacted player still should have an opportunity to display digging skills that may be affected by contacts. In this light, "freeing the plane" would weight the spiking skills of the game as much more important skills than the digging volley skills. The player with the highest and hardest contacts can overpower any other player at the net. At 96 worlds, I was considering proposing the idea of freeing the plane in the then upcoming IFAB meeting. I decided to talk to Ken Shults about it first, and it was he who turned my head around. He said that the rule ultimately just places a greater demand on him to be a more skillful aerialist, and that all the top crossplane spikers seem to agree with him. Since the ruling is hard to enforce, I think it may be wise to lessen the foul penalty. Make it a redo instead of a sideout or point. Well, that seems to be most of my two cents. I'll save some for later. agility rules- l8r- vince From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 27 20:21:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02283 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:20:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02279 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:20:32 GMT Received: from jcobbjim@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (2276) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02274 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:20:21 GMT Received: from imo23.mail.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.151]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00377 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:20:23 -0800 From: JCobbjim Message-ID: <785d83a2.34ce3ed3@aol.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:08:49 EST To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Re: The thread that unravellede Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org I wrote >Lets Free the Plane Steve responded >So Jim's advocating eliminating the "contact foul" from the rules, making it possible for players to reach over the net and kick other players, even if such kids cause them to foul or miss the footbag. >Now, for my personal opinion... >Are you *insane*!? Steve is suggesting, without recourse to rational dialogue(surprisingly), that the very raising of the topic of the contact rule as it now exists is absurd. Further,apparently, he suggests that my sanity should be questioned on the basis of my posting.:) If I may respond: I have not yet made a motion for changing the rules of the game although (with some embelishment) he does paraphrase my personal opinion.As of now I am just hoping to discuss the merits of the rule as it stands against the idea of some, as yet undefined, change. As to his second allegation,let me assure you all that I am far less sane than you have any reason to believe.Nevertheless, I think I retain just a sufficient kernel of sanity to continue this thread.;) >Jousting has *not* suffered Yes sir! >But injuring other players should [be penalized] The injury question is an important one.For now, I would just say that for the most part, potential injury arises not from contact but from an inability to fall correctly. This is an important skill that is not taught sufficiently to youngsters, as it should be. We need to learn and practice. As to the rare situation where contact may bring potential injury, it can happen as easily on either side of the net.Questions of center of gravity, undercutting,toe verses sole, etc. are not addressed by the rule as it stands. >>3......The "no contact" rule is extremely difficult to enforce >Not with an official -- in all final matches we use officials as line judges and contact/plane/net-foul judges It is difficult.Even the net contact rule has caused some problems because it is so hard to tell if you have grazed the net sometimes.Some have questioned the official strongly in major touneys(which is not to say that I question the rule, of course). Now the official also has to extend the plane into the air and judge with no physical aid. Challenging. Also the rule adds confusion. During a Worlds semifinal match the rule book was consulted for a good 10 minutes.This does not add to the watchability or playability of the game. The ruling was finally made by consulting one of the competitors in the match. Not on the rule ,but on the facts of the incident! >Of course, Dave (Dr. Fly-High) Bernard has a website dedicated to "freeing the plane" -- you can find it by going to his club's home page at http://www.footbag.org/clublist/npr A fun site which, like Steve's letter- thanks for input Steve- shows the emotional content of this topic.:) :) smile when u kick Jim From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 27 20:55:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02675 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:55:10 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02671 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:55:10 GMT Received: from jcobbjim@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (2668) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02666 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:55:09 GMT Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.167]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01063 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:55:11 -0800 From: JCobbjim Message-ID: <751c632d.34ce466a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:41:12 EST To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Re:The thread that unravelled... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Vince's thoughtful posting addresses well some of the points of the pro contact rule camp. Of course, at some point, a player has to see the two sides of the issue and make a choice based on consideration of the valid points presented. Vince also "jumps ahead" in the discussion as I envisioned it, getting to some important places I am going to avoid for now. For example, I am not going to line up top players in favor of a change until we have aired things out a bit more, and refined the topic a bit. As most of us are aware, there are strong contingencies on both sides. That said.....Vince wrote: > Even if contact with the footbag is made before any cross plane foul, there is an interruption in skill demonstration- the contacted player still should have an opportunity to display digging skills that may be affected by contacts. >In this light, "freeing the plane" would weight the spiking skills of the game as much more important skills than the digging volley skills. The player with the highest and hardest contacts can overpower any other player at the net. Although I certainly agree that a rule change would favor the higher jumper, I don't see how that would affect digging. Although I admit, very occasionally, seeing a recovery from a joust to a dig, it is almost always an "either/or" proposition. This is an issue of player preference and peer pressure. Either you choose to go up or you choose to dig.Also, the rule has no bearing on a partner's dig if you go up. I just don't see the connection between jousting and digging;both are equall and important aspects of the game, and will continue to be. Also, kudos to Vince for his spirit of compromise at the end of his post. with happpy feet Jim From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 27 20:58:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02709 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:58:39 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02705 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:58:38 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (2702) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02700 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:58:38 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA01143 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:58:40 -0800 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.03.0014/4c.adoc) with ESMTP id ka148444 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:07:21 -0600 Subject: Re: [footbag] Re: The thread that unravellede Message-Id: <000000527382968779886@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:04:46 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.8 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org On Tue, Jan 27, 1998, 2:08:49 PM US CST JCobbjim wrote: >I wrote >>Lets Free the Plane >Steve responded >>Are you *insane*!? Steve is so cute when he tries to quell discussion. 8{) Since I don't consider myself a net player anymore, I've had to defer judgement on this issue to those who are. But I would like to make a few points: The vast majority of net games / net matches played are not Worlds Finals matches (where head judges lurk over the net and can see fouls). Fact is, most net games played are played with a free plane. The rule enforcement at a few tournaments is an aberration. I don't think the contact foul existing changes the aerial behavior of players. Who out there really worries about committing this foul while you're up in the air going for the bag? If the statistics existed anywhere, I would really like to see a comparison of contact occurences in 'free-plane' play versus contact occurences in 'foul-regulated' play. Who out there among you net players can give your impressions of this? The spectre of purposeful contact with the intent to injure one's opponent, if the contact foul did not exist, is very real. Even with the foul, the possibility still exists. What's the cost of a foul if you can disable your opponent and win a game by default? Some mechanism, whether it be the discrection of the head judge calling unsportsmanlike conduct or the possibility of your opponent recovering and having a vendetta against you, needs to exist. Well, they already do, actually. -- Derrick Fogle -- Heartland Eye Banks -- dfogle@mlerf.org -- From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 27 22:59:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03465 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:59:18 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03461 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:59:16 GMT Received: from mbaker@imsa.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (3458) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03456 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:59:16 GMT Received: from postoffice.imsa.edu (cappio.imsa.edu [143.195.1.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04188 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:59:19 -0800 Received: from pepsi.imsa.edu (mbaker@pepsi [143.195.1.5]) by postoffice.imsa.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08048 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:58:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (mbaker@localhost) by pepsi.imsa.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA25081 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:59:17 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: pepsi.imsa.edu: mbaker owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:59:17 -0600 (CST) From: Baker X-Sender: mbaker@pepsi To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] illinois Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org hey people what's up?...i checked the newest footbag world, and there weren't any competitions lined up for anywhere in illinois...anybody know if there's any impromtu ones coming up? later baker From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 27 23:38:54 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA03695 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:38:40 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA03691 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:38:40 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (3688) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03686 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:38:39 GMT Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05068 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:38:43 -0800 Received: from [207.208.136.124] (d124.focal.interaccess.com [207.208.136.124]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id RAA18127; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:32:53 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:32:53 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Baker , footbag@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [footbag] illinois Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi Footbaggers! At 4:59 PM 1/27/98, Baker wrote: >hey people what's up?...i checked the newest footbag world, and there >weren't any competitions lined up for anywhere in illinois...anybody know >if there's any impromtu ones coming up? The 13th Annual Midwest Regionals is happening: June 12-13-14 Same basic schedule as last year. We are preparing an announcement to the listserve, and anyone who purchases product or signs up for new membership with the WFA will receive our flier. There is at least one event per month between now and then in Illinois. Sometimes more. We will post this as soon as we have it compiled. Thank you for your patience... Please let the word out about Midwest Regionals, it is a major prize money event with (as it has been for more than four years) over $1,000 purse. Tell your friends! Just be there. Thanks again, and watch for our upcoming post to the "Announce" list. See ya (there)! Scott Davidson Midwest Footbag Association From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 28 01:13:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04348 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:12:51 GMT Received: from edwinv@hmg.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (3581) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03579 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:20:20 GMT Received: from fw.hmg.com (hmg.com [205.217.46.34]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA04622 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:20:22 -0800 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by fw.hmg.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA00055 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:20:31 -0800 Received: from mail.priv.hmg.com(192.168.130.85) by fw.priv.hmg.com via smap (V1.3) id sma032754; Tue Jan 27 15:18:07 1998 Received: from [192.168.130.92] (192.168.130.92) by mail.priv.hmg.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 1.2.2) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:17:15 -0800 X-Sender: edwin.veltman@mail.hmg.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:20:03 -0800 To: Footbag discussion From: Edwin Veltman Subject: [footbag] plane freedom Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org > Jim wrote > >Lets Free the Plane > Steve responded > >So Jim's advocating eliminating the "contact foul" from the rules, making > it possible for players to reach over the net and kick other players, even > if such kicks cause them to foul or miss the footbag I believe the easiest solution to this controversy is to let the players decide for themselves if they've been fouled upon or not. Keeping in mind the real prospect of interference or even injury if the plane is broken and contact between opposing players occurs, this is how it would work: Whenever *any* contact between opposing players occurs during regular play, be it above or below the net, it should be the responsibility of the fouled-upon player to declare the foul, and state the reason (interference, possible injury, or whatever). If the player accused of the foul agrees, then the play is called a foul; if the accused player disagrees, it is a do-over. This method is fair and could be used in other instances where a play is in question and there is no line judge, or if the judge is unsure and cannot make a decision. This would guarantee that play could proceed quickly even in cases of disagreement. There is a possibility that a player could take advantage of such a rule and call "foul" when there was none, but I believe footbag players as a whole are very fair sports, and this rule would be acceptable to most. _______________ Edwin Veltman o 0 > /\ / / \/ \ / ` __________________________ HMG http://www.hmg.com From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 28 01:13:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04368 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:13:52 GMT Received: from golux@shell3.ba.best.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (4033) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA04031 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:21:03 GMT Received: from shell3.ba.best.com (shell3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.134]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06097 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:21:07 -0800 Received: (from golux@localhost) by shell3.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) id QAA06068; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:19:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:19:33 -0800 (PST) From: David Butcher Message-Id: <199801280019.QAA06068@shell3.ba.best.com> To: footbag@footbag.org, JCobbjim@aol.com Subject: Re: [footbag] The thread that unravelled... Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Howdy, all. Jim, you picked a live one. As an aside, I don't think we can, in good conscience, accuse Steve of trying to quell the discussion. He was pretty clearly fanning those flames, an unusual role for his generally staid (snicker) list presense. Here's what I think. I've tried both sides of this issue. I've settled, all by myself, on the idea that the plane IS free -- my opponent is not. There is absolutely nothing sweeter than getting into someone else's set and getting away clean. When I go up and hack a foot, I've blown it. I've failed to honor the set. It's exactly as bad a whiffing my partner's set. Pure aesthetics. My opinion. I've heard that some tournaments choose not to enforce the plane rule. This is bad, mostly because we have a mechanism for agreeing on the rules and should stick to them. The rules can be changed -- this thread is one way to start the process -- in the meantime, play by the rules. I've gotten lots better at falling and know some incredible cats, but it is really tough to land well after taking on surprise momentum from a contact joust. I've helicoptered my joustee (and been helicoptered) a few times. Very scary. david From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 28 01:24:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04439 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:24:30 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04435 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:24:29 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (4432) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04430 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:24:29 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07659 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:24:34 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.88] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04427; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:24:26 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:25:49 -0800 To: Edwin Veltman From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] plane freedom Cc: Footbag discussion Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 3:20 PM -0800 1/27/98, Edwin Veltman wrote: >If the player accused of the foul agrees, then the play is called a foul; >if the accused player disagrees, it is a do-over. This is pretty much one definition of "sportsmanship". Players are expected, in tournament play, to abide by basic sportsmanship guidelines such as this, or they are ejected from a tournament. This is already in the IFAB rules in so many words. I believe it's a red herring to discuss how to handle the case when there isn't a line or foul judge. That's not the issue. The issue is what the rule *should* be, assuming no contention as to whether or not a particular thing happened. For instance, you are not allowed to touch the net -- but if you do, and nobody sees it, it's STILL a foul (by the definition of the rules). How you settle the dispute over whether or not you hit the net, in the absense of a judge who clearly saw it, is a separate issue. What Jim is proposing (?) is a rule *change* that would somehow make certain (all?) contacts over the net legal. My belief is that making a more specific rule that talks about whether or not the foul caused you to fall down, or whether or not the foul caused you to miss the bag, etc., etc., is even more difficult. The judging of such would be even more complex than today's simple "which side of the net was the guy's foot on when he hit the other guy" rule. Steve From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 28 02:39:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA04950 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 02:38:44 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA04945 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 02:38:43 GMT Received: from cochrane@v-wave.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (4942) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA04940 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 02:38:43 GMT Received: from mail.videotron.ab.ca (mail.videotron.ab.ca [206.75.216.210]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA09547 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:38:48 -0800 Received: from binc-1 ([24.108.13.197]) by mail.videotron.ab.ca (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA22027 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:33:56 -0700 From: "Ben Cochrane" To: Subject: [footbag] ICQ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:41:08 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd2b96$2fdddd80$c50d6c18@binc-1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01BD2B5B.837F0580" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BD2B5B.837F0580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HEllo, Well, I have been on the list for awhile now and a few times I have seen = someone try to organize a CHAT on IRC or some other thing. Why doesn't = everyone just get ICQ. Its a handy little doo dad that lets youknow = when your friends are online and you can send files, chat, send msgs, = have big chats. If everyone had this and shared their UIN numbers that = ICQ gives them we could have all the chats we want. Stay SOLID FootBINC ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BD2B5B.837F0580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
HEllo,
 
Well, I have been on the list for = awhile now and=20 a few times I have seen someone try to organize a CHAT on IRC or some = other=20 thing.  Why doesn't everyone just get ICQ.  Its a handy little = doo dad=20 that lets youknow when your friends are online and you can send files, = chat,=20 send msgs, have big chats.  If everyone had this and shared their = UIN=20 numbers that ICQ gives them we could have all the chats we = want.
 
Stay SOLID
 
FootBINC
------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BD2B5B.837F0580-- From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 28 04:42:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA05583 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:42:09 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA05579 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:42:07 GMT Received: from tuhuge@sfsu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (5576) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA05574 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:42:07 GMT Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11742 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:42:13 -0800 Received: from tuhuge.sfsu.edu (madmax-42.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.42]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA18171 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:42:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980127084118.0068dcc8@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:41:18 -0800 To: footbag@footbag.org From: 2 x 4 Subject: [footbag] Webby awards Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi everyone, If you want to vote for steve's footbag webpage in the webbyawards check out this site www.webbyawards.com 2 huge From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 28 04:46:43 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA05619 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:46:42 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA05615 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:46:41 GMT Received: from tuhuge@sfsu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (5612) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA05610 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:46:41 GMT Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11822 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:46:47 -0800 Received: from tuhuge.sfsu.edu (madmax-42.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.42]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA19136 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:46:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980127084551.0068d53c@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:45:51 -0800 To: footbag@footbag.org From: 2 x 4 Subject: [footbag] No awards. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Sorry i couldn't figure out how to nominate Steve's website in the webbyawrds. 2 huge From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 28 08:31:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA07732 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:31:15 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA07728 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:31:13 GMT Received: from kendallkic@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (7725) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.177]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA07723 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:31:12 GMT From: KendallKIC Message-ID: <12da923d.34ceeccb@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 03:31:05 EST To: footbag@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Re: Missing Net Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hey Kids, I lost a brand new Jimmy-C Net at Worlds - it is without lines. Did anyone from Texas pick up an extra Net? Thank you, Kendall KIC From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 28 17:08:34 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00748 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:05:18 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00744 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:05:16 GMT Received: from casey@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (741) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00739 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:05:11 GMT Received: from gravy.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22699 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:05:11 -0800 Received: (from casey@localhost) by gravy.netcomi.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA26351 for footbag@footbag.org; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:05:00 GMT From: Casey Zacek Message-Id: <199801281105.LAA26351@gravy.netcomi.com> Subject: Re: [footbag] ICQ In-Reply-To: <01bd2b96$2fdddd80$c50d6c18@binc-1> from Ben Cochrane at "Jan 27, 98 07:41:08 pm" To: footbag@footbag.org Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:05:00 +0000 (/etc/localtime) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL37 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Ben Cochrane spoke forth with the blessed manuscript: > > Well, I have been on the list for awhile now and a few times I have seen > someone try to organize a CHAT on IRC or some other thing. Why doesn't > everyone just get ICQ. Its a handy little doo dad that lets youknow when > your friends are online and you can send files, chat, send msgs, have big > chats. If everyone had this and shared their UIN numbers that ICQ gives > them we could have all the chats we want. Not all of us run Windows or MacOS, and we don't like a chat program that would be idle most of the time eating up 30Mb of memory. -- Casey Zacek Sr. Systems Administrator * Programmer NETCOM Interactive From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 28 21:37:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02793 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:36:55 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02789 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:36:55 GMT Received: from aloe@intouch.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (2786) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02784 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:36:54 GMT Received: from srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (srv1.reelwest.bc.ca [207.194.197.99]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA29953 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:36:57 -0800 Received: from 207.194.197.195 (unverified [207.194.197.195]) by srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:36:53 -0800 Message-ID: <34CF3434.2254@intouch.bc.ca> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:35:53 +0000 From: "J. Pendray" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Re: ICQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Well, we could ask Josh Bowen about adding an ICQ numbers entry to the Players List. I use ICQ, but it doesn't seem to allow for chatting as such on Mac computers, so i use it as a pager. But the #footbag channel on undernet in irc is cool. Have had some illuminating discussions with folks there: So, anyone out there who uses irc, i'd recommend checking in there. :-) juliet Casey Zacek wrote: > > Ben Cochrane spoke forth with the blessed manuscript: > > > > Well, I have been on the list for awhile now and a few times I have seen > > someone try to organize a CHAT on IRC or some other thing. Why doesn't > > everyone just get ICQ. Its a handy little doo dad that lets youknow when > > your friends are online and you can send files, chat, send msgs, have big > > chats. If everyone had this and shared their UIN numbers that ICQ gives > > them we could have all the chats we want. > > Not all of us run Windows or MacOS, and we don't like a chat program that > would be idle most of the time eating up 30Mb of memory. > > -- Casey Zacek > Sr. Systems Administrator * Programmer > NETCOM Interactive From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 28 22:48:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03376 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:48:22 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03372 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:48:21 GMT Received: from aloe@intouch.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (3369) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03367 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:48:21 GMT Received: from srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (srv1.reelwest.bc.ca [207.194.197.99]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA31584 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:48:24 -0800 Received: from 207.194.197.195 (unverified [207.194.197.195]) by srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:47:54 -0800 Message-ID: <34CF44DA.D23@intouch.bc.ca> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:47:02 +0000 From: "J. Pendray" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] plane freedom References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Although I'm not yet decided on this, I'm going to contribute my four cents to the thread anyways! 1. I hate the fact that my opponent can just kick up and touch my foot, when i'm breaking the plane, making this my foul. After I've spent all that athletic type effort and all... I agree that it is the peak of athletic execution to perform a planebreaking spike while avoiding all fouling hazards along the way. But it is so frustrating to pull off one of those lovely things, with full intentions of *not* hitting anyone, and having it be a foul. 2. There are a few (thankfully very few though) dangerous folks out there, who go up with no regard for the safety of their opponent. It is common i find that skilled spikers will refrain from some of the stellar spikes and blocks in their repertoire during games where they face these care-less people. 3. As someone who enjoys the hell out of the aerial maneuvers...but who as female, is generally less mass that whoever is on the other side of the net...it is extra hazardous to joust with full-on-force plane-breakers. Have been booted back to mid court, and it is hard on the tailbones. 4. In our net training, i agree that we should do a *lot* more falling and rolling practice. I'm sure the takraw folks spend *lots* more time on this. Perhaps this plane issue would be less of a concern if falling practice was concomitant with spiking practice. juliet From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 29 01:10:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04378 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:10:02 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04374 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:10:02 GMT Received: from ratm@pacbell.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (4371) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04369 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:10:01 GMT Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02064 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:10:05 -0800 Received: from getlost (ppp-206-170-24-184.sntc01.pacbell.net [206.170.24.184]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id RAA12475; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:09:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34CFD753.4E9B@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:11:47 -0800 From: Gary Grant Reply-To: ratm@pacbell.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-PBWG (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "J. Pendray" CC: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Shhhh! Don't wake Amy.... References: <34C331DB.509A@intouch.bc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org J. Pendray wrote: > > Shhhh! Don't wake Amy.... > > (since Tournament Directors need their rest!) > > .....but can someone give some news on what happened in Arizona this > weekend?! > > waiting breathless for a response (turning blue), > > Juliet get me of your mailing list From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 29 01:22:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04479 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:22:03 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04475 for footbag@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:22:02 GMT Received: from awestber@sedona.intel.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (4472) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04470 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:22:02 GMT Received: from pan.ch.intel.com (pan.ch.intel.com [143.182.246.24]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02333 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:22:06 -0800 Received: from sedona.intel.com (sedona.intel.com [143.182.218.21]) by pan.ch.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03162; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from highbank (highbank.ch.intel.com [143.182.223.83]) by sedona.intel.com (8.7.6/8.7.3paulmail) with SMTP id SAA144103; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:21:59 -0700 From: Amy Westberg~ Received: by highbank (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/) id AA17276; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:22:03 -0700 Message-Id: <9801290122.AA17276@highbank> Subject: Re: [footbag] Shhhh! Don't wake Amy.... To: ratm@pacbell.net Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:22:03 +22305133 (MST) Cc: footbag@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <34CFD753.4E9B@pacbell.net> from "Gary Grant" at Jan 28, 98 05:11:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Excuse me, but I believe that you must take yourself of the list. You signed yourself up, so you need to take yourself off. > J. Pendray wrote: > > > > Shhhh! Don't wake Amy.... > > > > (since Tournament Directors need their rest!) > > > > .....but can someone give some news on what happened in Arizona this > > weekend?! > > > > waiting breathless for a response (turning blue), > > > > Juliet > get me of your mailing list > From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 29 15:50:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00444 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:47:06 GMT Received: from jcobbjim@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (6555) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA06553 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:12:11 GMT Received: from imo28.mail.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.156]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10114 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:12:14 -0800 From: JCobbjim Message-ID: <92984d8a.34d047e0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:11:58 EST To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] The thread that unravelled... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi all, I'd like to respond to Derrick, Owen and Dave first.Derrick, I think that the rule does change the game. In many touneys these days, doubles matches especially are begun with the ritual determination of the rules under which we are playing. Usually, if one of the members is pro contact foul rule, the rest are bound to follow along. I have also talked with a top top top player who said point blank that tourney play was differently contested than practice because of the rule. I suppose I can imagine a player intentionally kicking an opponent without trying for the bag-imagination can indeed take you places better left unvisited-but that rare instance is better controlled with immediate eviction for unsportsmanlike conduct. I agree with Owen that contact under the net is a foul that should remain so. Dave writes, and this ties in with the effect of the rule on the game: >I've heard that some tournaments choose not to enforce the plane rule. This is bad, mostly because we have a mechanism for agreeing on the rules and should stick to them. The rules can be changed -- this thread is one way to start the process -- in the meantime, play by the rules. Now Dave is a worthy jouster, and I believe it is to his credit that his actions bely his words.I have had contact jousts with Dave myself,and Dave, I remember no contact calls being made. I have also seen my partner have contact jousts with Dave.....no call. Either way. No need. Foot on foot on bag. Enough said. That's The Game. The point is ....and now we get closer to the actual proposal...well played Net should always supersede a contact foul.It *usually* does in non-judged tounament play. Not-by any means always.A rule is a rule. Then in finals, calls are made which reverse the result of an obvious point victory.The audience is at a loss, many players are disgusted, the game goes on. This should be changed. The Game Rules!!!! :) Jim From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 29 15:55:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00497 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:55:20 GMT Received: from jcobbjim@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (6647) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA06645 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:52:55 GMT Received: from imo27.mail.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.155]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10852 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:52:58 -0800 From: JCobbjim Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:52:54 EST To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] plane freedom Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hello again, The issues are similar, and again eloquently presented by thinking kickers. Edwin....good point. I would like to add that I think we could bring many of the "renegade,non-compliant -types" into the fold of the rules as they stand by changing the contact rule. Instead, there is frequent consternation when a call is made. Steve makes a good and important point: any rule change should bring the play to the forefront, not ravel the issue even further :). One idea I have heard is to make a freezone-6 inches or a foot- where contact is legal. Good idea, but it is complicating not simplifying the rules, so it probably couldn't fly. Juliet makes two points with her first cent. I need to address the first of these, because it brings to light the uselessness of the rule against possible injury.I have played with a partner who actually told me (though I never saw him follow through on it) that he wanted the rule in place so that he could reach up and kick an opponent when said opponent reached over the net for a spike!?! He had no intention of injuring anyone, but it should point up the fact that injuring kicks can occur on either side of the net. Her second haypenny is just what we want to correct in the standing rules. Juliet's second cent is a good point. It is my opinion that play which is clearly potentially injurious to others should be dealt with through peer pressure. I sometimes make plays which could injure others. It's scary. My opinion is that this arises( for me) when my timing is off, and I end up kicking up through the extended leg of my opponent. This should be avoided. I apologize when that happens. The rule doesn't affect this eventuality. It can and does happen on both sides of the net.I usually have already lost the point on the merits before the foul-or, on my side of the net, incidental potentially injurious contact. As for cent 3 Juliet, there's not much to do about player's various sizes. Oh well. And, finally, agreeing with Juliet yet again, we need to go up with enough control to fall safely. The opponent on whom I made my scariest play ( who did not make a contact call- and it was the most flagrant ever) recently told me that he learned to "protect himself" when he goes up because of it. The Game requires athletes. Athletes learn how to play hard, and avoid injury. Play The Game JoustWith Honor Peace, Jim From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 29 16:38:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00855 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:38:21 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (782) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00780 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:33:18 GMT Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15874 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:33:18 -0800 Received: from rac7.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac7.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.147]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA17534; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:33:15 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac7.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA19458; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:33:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:33:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199801291633.LAA19458@rac7.wam.umd.edu> To: JCobbjim@aol.com, footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] The thread that unravelled... Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Why does the rule have to change? Because there are moments when it's not obvious to spectators whats going on? The rules of a sport are designed to restrict the number of skills being contested, in order to facilitate a comparison of skill levels. Meaning, ideally, rules should only be established when they prevent unnecessary or invaluable skills from affecting a more valued focussed contest of skill, and should only be removed when a sport evolves to a point where it finds a need to allow for a wider field of skills to contest, or when a rule is established without complete forethought as to potential consequences that may on their own interfere with the valued skill contest. So, what are the valued skill of the footbag net contest? And what aspects of a cross plane contact rule affect the evaluation or performance of relative skills in the contest? What you actually may be proposing is that the contact fouls should not override sportsmanilike conduct. I know that i play by the contact rule when I feel my play was affected by the cross plane manuever. But if I am outmanuevered I will not call the foul. ( should i be writing 'outpedouvered?") In a tournament contest with a judge, on a good day, I can even visualize myself denying a contact foul declared in my favor for my appreciation of the skill. I know myself well enough to also know that if I were already behind in the game I may let a rule override a play in this instance, but this is an aspect of sportsmanlike conduct that ultimately can't be affected by rules- bad sportsmanship is bad sportsmanship, and it usually if not always is an admission of inferior play. Taking advantage of rules to get favorable bias is the same thing as not valuing skills development, making the contest results weigh more than the play experience. In practice this is a lousy experience as a road to becoming a greater athlete. In my allowing a rule to supersede over what in a more positive game I might have denied or overrrode, I am placing a greater challenge on my opponent. So long as the rule is equally applied, I am taking nothing away from my opponents ability to beat me with greater skill- I will have the foul called on me if I pursue cross plane contacts as a tactic in the contest. In this manner the rule affectively demonstrates skills development, without limiting the opportunity to develop in one skill greater than another. What the rule discourages is heavy dependence on cross plane contacts. A player relying on contacting cross plane sets will be negatively affected by the rule. Which implies that the skills valued in the contest are biased towards more skills than just cross plane spikes. From a biased vantage point, it is even possible that the rule is in place to preserve the development of spike blocking techniques. The rules exist as a guideline to sportsmanship- ultimately the players can make any call they choose, but when there is a disagreement, the rules exist to settle argument to expedite play. Jim, out of curiosity, why do you opt to play without the rule in practice? Play in practice with compared to play in tournament should always be different, for the simple reason that consistency wins tournaments, but skill development involves contesting inconsistency. Learning new stuff. The harder the practice, the stronger the game developed, and I do believe it is much harder to make an affective cross plane spike if there is an additional burden placed on not touching equipment or players. another part of the two cents. talk about pinching pennies... Vince From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 29 16:39:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00889 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:39:10 GMT From: tina@muellerlaw.com Received: from tina@muellerlaw.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (803) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00801 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:34:33 GMT Received: from internet (server.muellerlaw.com [208.21.240.75]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA15907 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:34:32 -0800 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:34:32 +0000 To: footbag@footbag.org, JCobbjim@aol.com Subject: Re: [footbag] plane freedom X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/300105194/300105164/300401954/ Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org This is not a new discussion as Steve has pointed out but one that has gone on for YEARS. Originally you could not break the plane of the net at all. Then the plane was freed. Injuries occurred including a broken collar bone. A compromise was reached leaving the plane free but instituting the contact foul. I believe the rule may be comparable to the rule in Volleyball. (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong). Anything we can do to reduce injuries is important from a player and tournament director's viewpoint. As a personal injury attorney and tournament director I am especially concerned about this, one good lawsuit by an injured player or player's parents (No those disclaimers really don't protect you) and all our work is ruined and the ability to get decent sites without insurance is gone. Also, if we want to attract kids to our sport its important to their parents that we make it as safe as possible. Lots of calls are hard but just because its easy doesn't make it right. We in IFAB also discussed a do-over rule but frankly its a little silly and slows down the game. In any event I think the self policing and honest calls that are made promote the sportsmanship aspect of our sport which I have over the years grown to understand a lot better. Most of the time those karma calls only help you in the overall match. This spirit of sportmanship and honesty is also rooted in the original history of our sport as a cooperative game - net and freestyle ultimately grew out of the cooperative circle game and we should always keep that in mind. Its a good compromise, leaving the plane free for those beautiful spikes and promoting safety at the same time. (one who hopes to some day break the plane on a regular basis). (Tina) ***************************************************** Tina Lewis Mueller Law Office Tel: 512-478-1236 Fax: 512-478-1473 Internet Address: tina@muellerlaw.com Home Page: http://www.muellerlaw.com ***************************************************** From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 29 19:40:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02680 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:40:02 GMT Received: from aloe@intouch.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (2278) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02275 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:13:19 GMT Received: from srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (srv1.reelwest.bc.ca [207.194.197.99]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA20100 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:13:20 -0800 Received: from 207.194.197.153 (unverified [207.194.197.153]) by srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:13:03 -0800 Message-ID: <34D06406.39D1@intouch.bc.ca> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:12:10 +0000 From: "J. Pendray" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] plane freedom References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi y'all, As a high flyin' big landin' type a player, I've experienced the plane. These are my thoughts on the "plane" If a person is over the plane and touches the bag first, then makes contact, I believe this should not be a contact foul. If a person is over the plane and contacts the opponent, (and does not touch the bag) and this contact results in the opponent not being able to make a play on the bag, I believe this should be a contact foul. However, if you have someone up there whaling on the opponent to get to the bag first, then that person has obviously not seen Valhalla above the plane and knows not of the ways. This person should be taken out back and whupped up on. Joust with honor, James From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 29 19:40:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02693 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:40:04 GMT Received: from aloe@intouch.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (2516) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02514 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:30:53 GMT Received: from srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (srv1.reelwest.bc.ca [207.194.197.99]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA20602 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:30:54 -0800 Received: from 207.194.197.153 (unverified [207.194.197.153]) by srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:30:25 -0800 Message-ID: <34D06817.5168@intouch.bc.ca> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:29:33 +0000 From: "J. Pendray" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] plane freedom References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi again, A couple of more things. I believe that huge aerial articulations on the bag are an important bonus to the amazing spectacle that is footbag. Without it, the game is diminished. For those who don't like big scary monsters trouncing their favorite sets, I might suggest that you keep your sets away from the net and nail the flying target at your leisure. For big scary monsters make big targets...... Big digs, Big spikes, and duels in the air. James From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 29 22:42:41 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA04356 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:42:20 GMT Received: from mzelov@sun1.wetmore.amphi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (4260) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA04258 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:39:06 GMT Received: from sun1.wetmore.amphi.com (NS.AMPHI.COM [206.210.128.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA25251 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:39:08 -0800 Received: from ams-38317.amphi_jhs.amphi.com ([206.210.140.89]) by sun1.wetmore.amphi.com (4.1/1.37) id AA11589; Thu, 29 Jan 98 15:46:19-070 Message-Id: <34D10553.123A@sun1.wetmore.amphi.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:40:19 -0700 From: marc zelov Organization: amphi public schools X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] net construction Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Howdy. I recently witnessed some of the competition in Phoenix, and was wondering if anybody out there has a set of plans for contructing a footbag worthy net set-up. As an 8th grade teacher of footbag (yes i actually get paid to teach footbag) we have been forced to play net on the school tennis courts. This is very fun, however unrealistic. Our school cannot afford the purchase of the kit that the WFA sells, so i thought perhaps I could build one if I new the proper contruction materials. Please send me any plans that may be in existence. I might as well put out there the possibility that perhaps someone would love to donate a set to our school. It would even be tax deductible and would be used daily by future superstars. Thanks Marc Zelov http://www.footbag.org/newclubs/listclub/amphi From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 29 23:03:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04584 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:03:14 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (4507) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04505 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:00:35 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA25807 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:00:38 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.91] ([206.66.71.91]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04502; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:00:29 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <34D10553.123A@sun1.wetmore.amphi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:01:48 -0800 To: marc zelov From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] net construction Cc: footbag@footbag.org Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 2:40 PM -0800 1/29/98, marc zelov wrote: >I recently witnessed some of the competition in Phoenix, and was >wondering if anybody out there has a set of plans for contructing a >footbag worthy net set-up. Have you read the Footbag Equipment page on Footbag WorldWide? http://www.footbag.org/ and click on "equipment". >Our school cannot afford the purchase of the kit that the WFA sells, so >i thought perhaps I could build one if I new the proper contruction >materials. Please send me any plans that may be in existence. Footbag net is played on a badminton court. You can always use indoor badminton courts -- many gyms have the poles and nets already.