From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 06:46:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA04163 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:45:49 GMT Message-ID: <34D3458A.7024@intouch.bc.ca> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:29:43 EST From: Jim Cobb To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] plane freedom Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org As a person who couldn't get to the plane with the use of a trampoline, I have, however, seen my partner Yosarian fly off into the fruited plane upon setting him. I have also seen opponents joust with him (or attempt to). After soundly thrashing him today in singles (I hope he is reading this!) I asked his opinion on this highly inflamatory issue. I told Yo that I think that yon spikemasters should have enough skill to joust without kicking someone on the other side. The jouster, I continued, should seek to be able to get to the bag quicker than the joustee thus establishing his/her superior aviation skills. In my opinion, avoiding contact with the joustee should be considered part of those skills. Yo's response, I thought, was a reasonable one. He maintained that the contest should be based on who could get to the bag first no matter where it is. If there is contact after the bag has been hit then it should either be of no consequence or the person's fault who did not get to the bag first. After thinking about it for a moment between serves, I had to admit that I agreed in principle with my high flyin' bald headed partner. What do ya'll think? Signed, Rick Bates P.S. Cranial power rules! P.S.S. Jim Cobb you're a rabble rowser! From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 16:20:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00565 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:17:13 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (288) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00286 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:29:56 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f107.hotmail.com [207.82.250.226]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA11623 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:29:56 -0800 Received: (qmail 23234 invoked by uid 0); 2 Feb 1998 15:29:55 -0000 Message-ID: <19980202152955.23233.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.109.226.69 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Feb 1998 07:29:54 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.109.226.69] From: "The 'Mazin Josh Penney" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] plane freedom Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 07:29:54 PST Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org A minor point for comparison: In Volleyball the rule on contacts goes to the defender. The rationale is that the offender is 'intruding on the defender's space'. JP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 16:20:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00578 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:17:17 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (390) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00388 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:46:35 GMT Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA11945 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:46:34 -0800 Received: from rac6.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac6.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.146]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA27757; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:46:24 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac6.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA17863; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:46:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:46:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802021546.KAA17863@rac6.wam.umd.edu> To: Trickerdad@aol.com, footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] plane freedom Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org The notion of who can hit the footbag first is a great idea, and no matter what ruling is made, it is the exprience of the skill vs skill test. Who is fastest and highest will be capable of making the winning play. A contact foul instituted by the advisory board serves the purpose of asking more of the cross plane spiker by asking them to be as graceful a sportsman as they are a skillful aerialist. To not only make the superior play but to do it in a way that minimizes risk of injury to all players concerned. This of course seems grandly idealized, especially with the unsportsmanlike development of the notion that a non-crossplane spiker can nullify great aerial displays of skill by intentionally being touched during play. Following the ideal anyway, this creates a greater demand on the more skillful player and on the better sportsman. A player willing to use this tactic is a player who would not choose to try and dig or block, or jump high and fast enough to beat the cross planer with their own skills, but would instead capitalize on a rule in an unsportsmanlike manner. On an aside, the creation or deletion of any rule does nothing to stop this from occurring. If there were to be no rule governing crossplane contacts, there could be players who in crossing the plane would not take any care to not avoid potentially injury prone contacts, capitalizing on the idea that an injured player is unlikely to win. Rules are designed to create environments where skills can be compared in such a manner that promotes the greater development of skills and skillful players. By having a cross plane contact rule in place, the sport is affectively saying that the development of the sport is being led by the players displaying skills. Instead of eliminating all cross plane efforts, as every other sport has that I have heard of, footbag has instead chosen to create a rule that simply asks for fair play, and penalizes the more skillful play if it interferes with an opposed effort of skill. True, the interference may be caused by something other than an effort of skill, but the rule still only asks the skillful player to be more skillful. man, after tirades like this, mr penny may just end up a big guy. shtataff luego- vince From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 19:03:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02038 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:03:29 GMT Received: from jcobbjim@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1455) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01453 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:55:56 GMT From: JCobbjim@aol.com Received: from imo22.mail.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.150]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15728 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:55:56 -0800 Received: from JCobbjim@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OTTRa10839 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:41:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <420a4c43.34d60558@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:41:42 EST To: footbag@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [footbag] plane freedom Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hello again, I've been asked to respond to some more of the points that have been made. 1) Injury cannot be prevented by rules like the contact rule. Although I have recent knowledge of an injury in a similar sport, it is my opinion that the potential for injury from mud or lumpy ground or aerial maneuvers on your own side of the net,is at least as likely as from contact injury. Also, if injury is such a concern, I think Andy's thought about stricter rules inside is a valid one. 2) In the frame work of the proposed rule change.......let me restate it: If there is a cross plane contact, there is no foul if the contacting player contacts the bag prior or simultaneous to the contact. ...in this context,there is no comparison to a freestyle drop. The other player is not like equipment. Both players have a right to the bag , if the bag is contacted, then player contact is incidental,and should be expected at times if the players are playing well. 3) This rule, far from stifling blocking, encourages it, as long as a player is skilled enough to get the bag. When a player hits the bag, the bag moves away from his foot. It is virtually impossible to hit the bag then "knock away" a blocker. Blocking often requires getting as close as possible to the kicker's foot. Under the new rule, this would be fine, long as you get the block. 4) There is always a chance for disagreement, but it is usually pretty easy to tell if a bag contact has been made, from the the path of the bag off the foot(feet). 5) I guess I personally don't have a problem with the do-over idea, when both players whiff on the bag. I do think that this rule, with it's emphasis on hitting the bag with the foot shuld take precedence. 6) Finally, I would just like to add that players who prefer no contact are always welcome to stay a couple or three feet off the net. No-one is compelled to play with contact, even if the rules allow it. Skill does indeed rule. Stay tuned Jim From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 20:39:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02972 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:39:33 GMT Received: from jcobbjim@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (2857) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02855 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:35:25 GMT From: JCobbjim@aol.com Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.175]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA19976 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:35:25 -0800 Received: from JCobbjim@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id ODOMa14890; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:29:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:29:06 EST To: rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu Cc: footbag@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [footbag] plane freedom Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org In respnse to Vince: O.K. What I don't like about the rule as it stands, personally, is that it stifles the urge to jump and reach for the bag, when the bag is my opponents space. This is the point of the rule as far as I can understand, in a well meaning effort to avoid injury. With the biggest mass of the top 50 players, I can tell you that peer pressure, and a desire not to upset my fellow players(read opponents) has kept me pretty well reigned in when it comes to jousting, to the point where I sometimes lose points on sole to sole jousts, because I'm not pushing hard enough. However, stronger players like James and Thomas can expect some more resistence, having shown their strength.:-) I digress. What I don't like about the rule and which I hope we can agree( most of us that is)to, is that it takes away points from players who have righteously struck the bag(off a set, poach or block) because of contact which is rendered incidental by the result of striking the bag. To me, unless the threat of injury is greater than I think it really is, this is wrong. Run Jump Hit the Bag. This should be rewarded, not penalized. Interestingly, I have come to have more respect for the rule when the offender does not strike the bag. So you overstate my position as it stands, which speaks only to contact after or simultaneous to striking the bag. Finally, I thought I was answering some of the reasons for the rule in good faith, I guess I have been unsuccessful to some extent. I have been surprised at the breadth of opinions out there. I had thought that the discussion had narrowed over the years. That caught me off guard, and perhaps led to my seeming disregard of other's opinion, or the good faith reasons for the rule as it stands. Living and Learning Jim From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 22:36:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03917 for footbag-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:36:17 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (3156) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA03154 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:06:23 GMT Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20775 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:06:19 -0800 Received: from rac6.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac6.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.146]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA22486; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:28:35 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac6.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA21127; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:28:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:28:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802022028.PAA21127@rac6.wam.umd.edu> To: JCobbjim@aol.com, footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] plane freedom Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org With regards to the proposed rule change: The only real change is to say that a player crossing the plane should not be considered at fault if they touched the footbag before any other contacts are made. I like this idea and this proposal, but still see no real advantage to it over the current rule. As I have implied, the idea of not contacting the other player is primarily reflective of a demand for good sportsmanship without sacrificing growth of crossplane skills by eliminating any cross plane actions. As I see it, the proposed new rule change simply tries to say that the spiker, having made the first contact, has proven themselves guiltless of unsportsmanlike conduct, and having done so should not be penalized. As a player, this is how I act on the court. If I am kicked on my side of the net, and I was kicked after first contact, I choose for myself to not benefit from the foul, but I don't oppose any players who do call the foul, like a partner, or the player making the crossplane contact. When I foul someone and know I crossed the plane, I do however call the foul on myself regardless of whether or not I made the first contact, because I value the current rule for making a greater demand on my skills. Just to clarify, what reasons can be given for the current rule needing to be changed? thankful for the debate and the time- vince From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 3 00:12:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04666 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:11:42 GMT Received: from jcobbjim@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (4012) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA04010 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:51:14 GMT From: JCobbjim@aol.com Received: from imo30.mail.aol.com (imo30.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.168]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23704 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:51:15 -0800 Received: from JCobbjim@aol.com by imo30.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OKXGa08035; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:18:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:18:46 EST To: rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu Cc: footbag@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [footbag] plane freedom Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org hey ho Just to clarify, what I propose is that a player must contact the bag before any incidental contact to a player, not that he necessarily must contact the bag before the other player does. ..............Jim From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 3 18:39:34 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01672 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:38:08 GMT Received: from edwinv@hmg.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1628) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01626 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:35:18 GMT Received: from fw.hmg.com (hmg.com [205.217.46.34]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA10928 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:35:20 -0800 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by fw.hmg.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA10616 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:35:24 -0800 Received: from mail.priv.hmg.com(192.168.130.85) by fw.priv.hmg.com via smap (V1.3) id sma010501; Tue Feb 3 10:32:14 1998 Received: from [192.168.130.92] (192.168.130.92) by mail.priv.hmg.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 1.2.2) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 03 Feb 1998 10:31:34 -0800 X-Sender: edwin.veltman@mail.hmg.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:34:20 -0800 To: Footbag discussion From: Edwin Veltman Subject: [footbag] indoor net Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Great discussion on "freeing the plane", let's keep things going on this list with another topic: With all the rain falling in California, I've been out to play net only 3 or 4 times since Thanksgiving! I'd like to hear people's experiences with playing net indoors. I'm not used to not being able to play outdoors for such a long time; I'm sure some of you players who live in the snow-belt can let us know what you do during the winter. Where do net players play indoors, and how did you find the place? What's it like to play on a hard floor? Do you have to play extra-careful, and does that affect your outdoor play? Could indoor net be played at a tournament (or has it been in recent times), or is it too dangerous for that level of play? (I've seen videos of indoor net tournament play, way back when a volleyball net was used and players could kick the bag many times in a row - looked pretty funny.) Does anyone know of or is interested in putting together some indoor net practice in the San Francisco Bay Area? It seems like it's going to rain forever! _______________ Edwin Veltman o 0 > /\ / / \/ \ / ` __________________________ HMG http://www.hmg.com From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 3 19:52:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02108 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:52:18 GMT Received: from aloe@intouch.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (2030) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02028 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:44:06 GMT Received: from srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (srv1.reelwest.bc.ca [207.194.197.99]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA12861 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:44:08 -0800 Received: from 207.194.197.194 (unverified [207.194.197.194]) by srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Tue, 03 Feb 1998 11:43:06 -0800 Message-ID: <34D70276.4B64@intouch.bc.ca> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 11:41:46 +0000 From: "J. Pendray" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edwin Veltman CC: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] indoor net References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Woooooo! The Bay Area Experiences Rain: ye puir wee bairns! In Vancouver we play net indoors regularly in the winter, using community centre or school gyms. Some gyms have required making a standard application for reserved drop-in time, where we pay a set fee each session just like the drop-in badminton, volleyball, etc. Some gym times have been acquired by a kicker's personal contacts with that facility/community. Some gyms have turned us down because they want preregistration, or a guaranteed minimum attendance. Infrequently we use racqetball courts, adapting the "wallyball" wall connections for the footbag net height. However in these the court dimensions don't allow you any space behind the implied service line, so play has to be pretty casual. Some folks do not kick indoors because the floor is so hard. IMHO its not so bad, but you do need to be more careful with falls, and compensate for the fact that you have much more traction on a gym floor. Also is more tiring on the body because you impact harder. Lighting is important: Older gyms often have poor or poorly angled lights. Of course there are them fancy-dancy new gyms with better floor cushioning and lights, as long as you can make a convincing argument in your application (and promise not to use dark soled shoes :-) I seem to remember that the Montreal folks just book courts in the large badminton facility on campus. Which seems like a great setup, since you don't need to talk up the administrators in advance. Seattle has an annual indoor tournament, which is always a really good event. I don't find that playing indoors subsequently affects how i play outdoors, but I figure perhaps some folks would disagree? joooooliet From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 5 00:00:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04080 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:59:20 GMT Received: from jcobbjim@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (3935) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03933 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:49:32 GMT From: JCobbjim@aol.com Received: from imo27.mail.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.155]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31997 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:49:36 -0800 Received: from JCobbjim@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OQDKa12997 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:46:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5cda3199.34d8fdd2@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:46:24 EST To: footbag@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [footbag] The Proposal:... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org So here is what I am actually proposing: I am going to administer a referendum of the players in which they will be able to sign on as either supporting a proposed rule change: There is no contact foul when a player contacts the bag prior or simultaneous to contacting a player across the net. or as supporting the rule as it stands. Scott Milne, chairman of the net committee of the IFAB, will present the proposed rule change, along with the referendum results to the IFAB at the annual meeting after Worlds. It should be understood that the results are not binding on the IFAB and that this does not necessarily reflect the opinion of Scott. But!, The IFAB will address the proposal, and they will have the vote of the players to help them come to a decision. In order to accomplish this I would like to ask for some help from the community: 1) I would like to know if the tourny directors would help by setting out the referendum on the registration table, and by including a white sheet in the player packets. I will provide the white sheet, along with materials necessary to the process, along with postage back to Seattle. 2) I would like to solicit someone or some few people to write up a short (one page or less) position statement for the rule as it stands. I hope that this referendum will be as fairly presented as possible so that the IFAB will look upon it with favor. This statement will be presented next to the referendum, so that players will have some of the arguements, pro and con, with which to make a decision( with the blessing of the tourney directors?) Anyone interested? 3) Finally, I would welcome any input concerning the actual wording of the proposed rule change, and concerning the content of the one page position statement in favor of it. Any other input would be welcome as well. My apologies to any of you who are tiring of this topic. 7/20/98 !!!!!! ;-) Jim From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 5 17:22:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01015 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:20:07 GMT Received: from ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (8065) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA08063 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:04:08 GMT Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA11831 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 05:04:18 -0800 Received: from coinc0.coin.missouri.edu (coinc0 [198.209.253.6]) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA22738; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 07:03:47 -0600 (CST) Received: by coinc0.coin.missouri.edu (8.8.5) id HAA00292; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 07:03:45 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 07:03:45 -0600 (CST) From: Ida Bettis Fogle X-Sender: ifogle@coinc0 To: JCobbjim@aol.com cc: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] The Proposal:... In-Reply-To: <5cda3199.34d8fdd2@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Jim's proposal reminds me of something about which I've been wondering. Is there an official protocol or something for proposing rule changes to IFAB? Pesonally, I've always depended on the fact that I sleep with one of the IFAB members.... Ida Bettis Fogle; ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 5 17:31:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01198 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:31:19 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1120) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01118 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:29:24 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16363 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:29:25 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01114; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:29:15 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <5cda3199.34d8fdd2@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:30:47 -0800 To: Ida Bettis Fogle From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [footbag] The Proposal:... Cc: footbag@footbag.org Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org At 5:03 AM -0800 2/5/98, Ida Bettis Fogle wrote: >Jim's proposal reminds me of something about which I've been wondering. >Is there an official protocol or something for proposing rule changes to >IFAB? The IFAB rulebook contains this information for those who care to read it. By the way, the IFAB website has been online since 1994. The address of the summary of bylaws, which talks about new rule proposals, is at http://ifab.footbag.org/bylaws.html "RULE CHANGES Rule changes will be voted on at the annual meeting or via correspondence. A proposal to change a rule may be submitted to the appropriate committee chairperson. The proposal must be submitted in the following format: 1.The rule as it presently reads in the current rulebook; 2.The rule as the petitioner would like it to read; 3.Supporting arguments for the rule change, including any history or relevant information or precedents. This should include possible consequences for leaving the rule intact as well as changing the rule. " Steve P.S. Debating a rule on the listserve, or collecting signatures supporting a rule, are all perfectly fine ways of attempting to extend (3) above, but are not required. What is usually required, more than anything, is precise wording when the rule is presented to the committee, so that there is no confusion as to the rule's meaning. From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 5 22:40:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02977 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 22:39:57 GMT Received: from jcobbjim@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (2026) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02024 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:12:39 GMT From: JCobbjim@aol.com Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.165]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20280 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:12:41 -0800 Received: from JCobbjim@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id LYENa01414; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:09:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3a32c843.34da1c8f@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:09:48 EST To: jsymons@hpmfas1.cup.hp.com Cc: footbag@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [footbag] The Proposal:... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi, I cut and pasted in the writing of my last post, so it didn't get received as I sent it( or at least as I meant to).Thanks for clarifying, Julie. Yes, my hope is that at the tourneys up to and including Worlds, players will have an opportunity to support either the rule change, or to support the rule as it stands. The results, along with other materials, will be presented to the IFAB by Scott Milne, chairman of the net committee. For the purposes of the referendum, would anyone be interested in penning a one page position paper? There is grassroots support for the change- I think overwhelming- and there is support from the best of the best players. Can I get some help from someone who supports the rule to back it in writing in the interest of a fair presentation to the players and the IFAB? Thanks Jim From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 11 21:44:50 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02843 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:43:12 GMT Received: from jwin5133@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (2578) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02576 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:08:10 GMT From: Jay Wininger Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.174]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00858 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:08:11 -0800 Received: from JWin5133@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OZZGa05989 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:08:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2a6fb59d.34e21333@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:08:00 EST To: footbag@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [footbag] net shoes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org hey everyone I just found a decent net shoe at called the Nike Air Terra Humara. It is a trail running shoe and It definately has potential to be a good shoe. The inside is great, the outside is not bad. It has good lateral support and superb traction. I got them at footlocker. They are expensive though. Jay From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 12 16:22:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00629 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:20:58 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for announce@majordomo.footbag.org (433) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00431 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:56:50 GMT Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA17673 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:56:50 -0800 Received: from rac4.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.144]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA19884 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:56:43 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac4.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA18870 for announce@footbag.org; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:56:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:56:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802121556.KAA18870@rac4.wam.umd.edu> To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] East Coast Footbag Championships Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Anybody wishing to make hotel reservations for East Coast, the tournament is group number 1265 at the Best Western College Park. Call 1800-528-1234 or 301-474-2800 to make reservations. Be sure to mention the group number to get the specially discounted $69.00 double rooms; 6 are currently on hold. Those who were here last year, this is the same hotel. Those who weren't, yes it has a jacuzzi, and shuttle service to the footbag site. Have a good day, get out and kick if you can. Hope to see you all at eastcoast. l8r- Vince Bradley, Director guy, Footbag Thing, 301-422-8738 From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 12 16:23:03 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00657 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:23:02 GMT Received: from ma7mack@student.qmced.ac.uk () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (6339) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA06337 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:23:25 GMT From: MA7MACK@student.qmced.ac.uk Received: from student.qmced.ac.uk (student.qmced.ac.uk [193.62.47.24]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA14242 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 02:23:27 -0800 Received: from at717---cw3.qmced.ac.uk (194.83.93.22) by student.qmced.ac.uk (Rockliffe SMTPRA 1.2) with SMTP id ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:23:18 +0000 Message-ID: Comments: Authenticated sender is To: footbag@footbag.org Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:30:12 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [footbag] Scotland? U.K? Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Does anyone know of anything of footbagging-kind which inhabits itself in these fair isles. Anybody? Anything? Edinburgh? Scotland? (even... ...England!?) I find the occassional programme on TV and have done surgery on various juggling balls but... hmmm. Thanks n God bless Stephen Mackel... . . . . . . From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 12 19:37:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02066 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:36:29 GMT Received: from aloe@intouch.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1772) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01770 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:06:02 GMT Received: from srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (srv1.reelwest.bc.ca [207.194.197.99]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA21961 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:06:03 -0800 Received: from 207.194.197.157 (unverified [207.194.197.157]) by srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:05:49 -0800 Message-ID: <34E2D783.4BED@intouch.bc.ca> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:05:43 +0000 From: "J. Pendray" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: MA7MACK@student.qmced.ac.uk CC: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Scotland? U.K? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org > Does anyone know of anything of footbagging-kind which > inhabits itself in these fair isles. Anybody? Anything? > Edinburgh? Scotland? (even... ...England!?) > I find the occassional programme on TV and have done surgery > on various juggling balls but... hmmm. Stephen Mackel I don't know of any kicking clubs in yer fair isles. BUT if YOU start a club, even as a club of one (so far), and register it here http://www.footbag.org/add-club.html then other kickers in yer same dire straights will have someone to connect with. And/or putting yourself on the Players List. Think of it: You could be the Pioneer of U.K. Footbag !!! :-) Juliet From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 13 05:17:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA06174 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 05:17:34 GMT Received: from trickerdad@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (6036) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA06034 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 04:56:42 GMT From: Rick Bates Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01070 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:56:47 -0800 Received: from Trickerdad@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id ODZDa10795 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:56:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:56:37 EST To: footbag@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [footbag] Scotland? U.K? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org The footbagger in the UK, if he were to start a club, would not quite be the pioneer of footbag in the UK. Back in the 80's a kicker by the name of Gary Griggs from England won the world title after kicking only a short time. He was a natural, but where is he now? Maybe you could look him up Mr. Mackel. Even if you don't find him, Juliet had a great idea in starting your own club. Good kicking! Rick Bates From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 13 23:13:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA03263 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:11:34 GMT Received: from dbotkin@valinet.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (3103) Received: from mbs.valinet.com (mbs.valinet.com [206.98.218.24]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03101 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:51:29 GMT Received: from dbotkin.hampshire.edu (ppp16.valinet.com [206.98.218.45]) by mbs.valinet.com (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA18746 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:51:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802132251.RAA18746@mbs.valinet.com> Reply-To: From: "Daniel Botkin" To: Subject: [footbag] Find Jesse Whitworth Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:01:20 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Can anyone help me get a message to (blond, dredlocked, freewheelin' styler...) Jesse Whitworth? He supposed to meet up with Jannie and I in Guatemala for some footbag peace barnstorming later this month but after the attack on the Maryland college students there last month, we've canceled our trip. Jesse was last with his family in Illinois but I have no contact info. Thanks. Daniel Botkin From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Sat Feb 14 22:49:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA01471 for footbag-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 22:47:56 GMT Received: from smacferson@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1433) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA01431 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 22:42:20 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f69.hotmail.com [207.82.250.155]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA01386 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:42:23 -0800 Received: (qmail 19230 invoked by uid 0); 14 Feb 1998 22:42:22 -0000 Message-ID: <19980214224222.19229.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.76.103.233 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:42:21 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.76.103.233] From: "Stuart Macferson" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: Re: [footbag] Scotland? U.K?, Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:42:21 PST Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Well Stephen, from what I understand the UK is pretty much a footbag wasteland (presently at least). The reason for this, I suspect is the year round stink weather. Just imagine trying to shred it up in the wind blown Scottish Highland while wearing a skirt. Although I'm sure those sporrans would make ideal footbag holders ;). However, due to the popularity of soccer in this part of the world, I do feel the UK holds a enormous potential, particularly in freestyle (and golf). From my experiences here in NZ, a lot of interest has come from those soccer fanatics who marvel at the tricks that can be done with these 'minature soccer balls'. I don't know about anyone else but I've had a few comments along the lines of...'Are you boys soccer players?' and 'I bet you guys could play for Liverpool'. So my point being Stephen, (and anyone else in the UK), perhaps a good way to attract players would be to break out the bag at local soccer matches. Even if you're not BAP level, you can still do more with a footbag than Maradona ever did with a football, so I'm sure you'd get a lot of interest not to mention a few pennies flipped your way :) Stuart ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 15 18:39:19 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA00679 for footbag-outgoing; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 18:37:27 GMT Received: from cochrane@v-wave.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (3199) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA03197 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 09:00:29 GMT Received: from mail.videotron.ab.ca (mail.videotron.ab.ca [206.75.216.210]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA15069 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 01:00:37 -0800 Received: from binc-1 ([24.108.13.197]) by mail.videotron.ab.ca (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAB21150 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 02:00:36 -0700 From: "Ben Cochrane" To: Subject: [footbag] U.K footbag Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 02:02:47 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd39f0$7ce10d60$c50d6c18@binc-1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD39B5.D0823560" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD39B5.D0823560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Heya, Speaking of kicking in the UK, I went there in march '97 and was = sick of my relatives :) and so I went outside and decided to kick a = little bit. 2 girls happened to walk by and they started laughing at me = and called me a bloody loser or something. This was in Warrington, = upper England. Although when I was in Glastonbury visiting some big = tower on some hill, I was kicking at the top and a few loclas asked me = what I was doing, and they though the idea was pretty neat but that = soccer was still a better game. Oh well, good luck in getting a club = going there. Cheers :) FootBINC ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD39B5.D0823560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Heya,
 
    Speaking of = kicking in the=20 UK, I went there in march '97 and was sick of my relatives :) and so I = went=20 outside and decided to kick a little bit.  2 girls happened to walk = by and=20 they started laughing at me and called me a bloody loser or = something. =20 This was in Warrington, upper England.  Although when I was in = Glastonbury=20 visiting some big tower on some hill, I was kicking at the top and a few = loclas=20 asked me what I was doing, and they though the idea was pretty neat but = that=20 soccer was still a better game.  Oh well, good luck in getting a = club going=20 there.
 
Cheers :)
 
FootBINC
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD39B5.D0823560-- From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 17 08:15:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA05967 for footbag-outgoing; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:14:58 GMT Received: from penn_trevella@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (5862) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA05860 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 07:56:34 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f152.hotmail.com [207.82.251.31]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA30575 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:56:41 -0800 Received: (qmail 21309 invoked by uid 0); 17 Feb 1998 07:56:40 -0000 Message-ID: <19980217075640.21308.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 194.200.212.65 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:56:40 PST X-Originating-IP: [194.200.212.65] From: "penn trevella" To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] Footbag UK Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:56:40 PST Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org We are a dedicated bunch of New Zealanders living and working in London. Although not an organised club currently we play footbag (we call it hacky sack) on a fairly regular basis. Just social stuff usually ending in a visit to the pub. Anyone wanting to hack with us is more than welcome, e mail me (penn_trevella@hotmail.com) or phone London 0171 730 6556. I agree that footbag is seen as a bit alien in the UK but we have had some pretty good feedback from people checking out some of our more public sessions. >From what I hear from home footbag is going crazy in NZ, which is cool , but then we've always been abit more open to innovation than the Brits!! Keep on hackin'. Penn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 18 03:38:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA06173 for footbag-outgoing; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 03:37:34 GMT Received: from kaplanb@mscd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (6007) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA06005 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 03:03:43 GMT Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19979 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:03:48 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-9 #24550) with SMTP id <0EOK006010EZD0@clem.mscd.edu> for footbag@footbag.org; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:01:47 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:01:46 -0700 (MST) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [footbag] Mardi Gras? To: footbag@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hello out there! Anyone going to be kicking this weekend in New Orleans for the big "pardi gras"? If so, where abouts? BRAD From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 20 16:15:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00503 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:13:17 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (334) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00332 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:22:14 GMT Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA15630 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:22:14 -0800 Received: from [207.208.137.85] (d122.focal2.interaccess.com [207.208.137.122]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id JAA29946 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:16:06 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:16:06 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: footbag@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: [footbag] Old videotape request... Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi fellow footbaggers! I have two requests for old videotape, if anyone has this footage, I would be happy to pay for a copy of it. First, most recently... 1997 Funtastik Classic, first round womens freestyle... we would like to get a copy of Valeria Davidson's performance, and Sam Conlon's performance. (Steve G., I believe you remember that performance). Secondly, Approximately 1988, Golden Colorado. World Championships. Exhibition event: Mixed Team Freestyle By E.T. and Constance Constable (hmmm..., they may not have even been married at that point). They did a beautiful mixed performance, WAY before anyone else had seen mixed as a viable event. Anyway, that routine stands out in my mind as a great performance and I wanted to show it to Val. Hopefully someone had a camcorder then, that is still around today. Hope to hear from you, Scott and Valeria Davidson MFA 773-237-9255 From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 26 16:37:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00901 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:36:20 GMT Received: from nwall@comset.co.uk () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (142) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA00140 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:46:58 GMT Received: from StClare1.comset.co.uk ([194.203.250.129]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA02391 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:46:53 -0800 Received: by StClare1.comset.co.uk(Lotus SMTP MTA SMTP v4.6 (462.2 9-3-1997)) id 802565B7.00512996 ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:46:30 +0000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: COMSET From: "Nick Wall" To: footbag@footbag.org Message-ID: <802565B7.0050EB27.00@StClare1.comset.co.uk> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:46:26 +0000 Subject: [footbag] footbags in the UK? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Does anybody out there know of anywhere in the UK, especially near London, that sells quality footbags? In particular, Flying Clippers. I'm just trying to get back into it, but other than mail order from the US can't find any. Cheers, Nick Wall. From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 26 16:37:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00914 for footbag-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:36:22 GMT Received: from mzelov@sun1.wetmore.amphi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (257) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00255 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:04:51 GMT Received: from sun1.wetmore.amphi.com ([206.210.128.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA02617 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:04:50 -0800 Received: from [206.210.140.89] by sun1.wetmore.amphi.com; (5.65/1.1.8.2/14Feb98-0313PM) id AA11688; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:05:40 -0700 Message-Id: <34F592DA.4E47@sun1.wetmore.amphi.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:05:46 -0800 From: marc zelov Organization: amphi public schools X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] new fabric Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Good Morning.. I am preparing to order a bunch of the currently sale priced Flying Clipper products for some of the students at my school. http://www.footbag.org/newclubs/listclub/amphi I noticed that the advertisement (which is in the latest Footbag World issue) claims that all of the sale priced footbags are sewn with Flying Clipper's new exclusive fabric. Has anybody had any experience with this new material. I have heard that it is a synth suade/ facile cross with a "fuzzy" velour feel to it. I am wondering about this materials hopefully well-tested ability to break in and its overall durability to withstand the beating which beginners tend to inflict on their footbags. The prices are too good too pass up, but I dont want to steer these innocent young footbaggers wrong. Of course I trust Flying Clipper's ability to create awesome products. I'm just wondering what the response is from you experts out there. Thanks. Marc Zelov From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 27 00:30:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04682 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:30:40 GMT Received: from angelab@log.on.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (4571) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA04569 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:23:23 GMT Received: from logon.log.on.ca (log.on.ca [205.207.183.29]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14711 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:23:26 -0800 Received: from log.on.ca([205.207.183.29]) (1514 bytes) by logon.log.on.ca via sendmail with P:smtp/R:bind_hosts/T:inet_zone_bind_smtp (sender: ) (ident using rfc1413) id for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:23:23 -0500 (EST) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2 built 1997-Dec-18) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:23:17 -0500 (EST) From: Angela To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] workshops and teaching and stuff :) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Hi y'all I have a somewhat unique problem. I am the only kicker for miles and miles and miles around and I recently had an opportunity to talk about footbag with one of the local teachers. She was so impressed with the things that I said about the sport that she wantsme to come in and do a workshop. Not only that but she seems to have a bunch of the elementary schools in the area interested in the idea. :) Now they have NO budget for this so I am going to basically donate my time... the question is twofold. One) does anyone have any suggestions for format and such that an intermediate kicker and a lousy juggler could use? 2) is there anywhere I can get decent but CHEAP footbags so I could hand out a couple to the teachers? I have unfortunately already given away all the free bags I got at tourneys last year... Anyway... I need this pretty soon, so if any of you more experienced demo types could help me out I would way appreciate it :) Kicking in a wasteland in the wilds of Ontario :) Angela B From owner-footbag@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 27 20:11:47 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02393 for footbag-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:09:28 GMT Received: from wfa@worldfootbag.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1800) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01798 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:59:44 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA30595 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:59:46 -0800 Received: from [206.175.102.154] (hdn109-151.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.108.151]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01795 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:59:37 GMT Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:59:37 GMT X-Sender: wfafootbag@m4.sprynet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: footbag@footbag.org From: World Footbag Association Subject: [footbag] workshops and teaching and stuff :) Sender: owner-footbag@footbag.org Angela writes: >Now they have NO budget for this so I am going to basically donate my >time... the question is twofold. One) does anyone have any suggestions >for format and such that an intermediate kicker and a lousy juggler could >use? As you probably realize, the WFA has been going into schools for the past 14 years teaching and turning on kids (and teachers) to the fun and benefits of footbag. We have found it almost imperative to provide every student with a footbag in order to adequatley instruct - certainly one footbag for every two students at a minimum. When teaching you need to GO VERY SLOW, and concentrate on the basics. Remember all those things that were drilled into you when you first learned to kick: "Slow and low" "Good hand tosses" "Basic athletic stance, shoulder width apart, kness bent and hands out to the side". Have the students begin by simulating the motion of the inside, outside and knee kicks without a footbag in their hands. Now you are ready to pass out footbags. Have students start with a careful hand toss to an inside kick and a catch. Always have them alternate feet. The other basics to teach are the outside and knee kicks - once again a hand toss to a kick and a catch. Always alternating feet. A great tool to have is a whistle. After everyone ON YOUR COMMAND has tried the kick and catch to your satisfaction blow your whistle - train them to immediatly drop the footbag on the ground in front of them, zip their lips and pay attention to you. As they start to GET IT move on to the COMBO. Hand toss to a knee an opposite foot inside kick and a catch. - Always alternate feet - and if they are successful (and elementary age) have them yell out COMBO!! Have students pair off for some drills. One person begins with hand tosses to their partner and tests them on all the basics to both sides of the body. One kick and catch only. Depending on time and age of students you can move on to: - Toe and back kicks. - Personal record consecutive kicks - Circle kicking - Net play - start with 3' high net - Easy tricks: hand toss to kneck and lap catches, pick ups by pinching between feet at toes and/or heels and jumping and lifting the footbag to a hand catch, put on forehead and drop to an inside or knee kick >2) is there anywhere I can get decent but CHEAP footbags so I could >hand out a couple to the teachers? I have unfortunately already given >away all the free bags I got at tourneys last year... We do have teaching kits available for schools - which include good durable footbags along with instructional manuals and a basics video at very reasonable prices. Another option for schools with no money is to produce some makeshift footbags. All you need is a coke bottle, rice and balloons. Fill the coke bottle with rice, stretch a balloon over the opening, fill the balloon about 2/3's full of rice and tie it off. Its not the best footbag but it will work in a pinch. Have fun, smile and be confident and you will do great!! Randy/WFA