From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 1 00:43:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA17184 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 00:43:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21109 for ; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 17:34:21 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FNM00A01V85DR@clem.mscd.edu> for Freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 18:38:29 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 18:38:29 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] New move? In-reply-to: <386D1EEF.C5D14E10@earthlink.net> To: Tim Werner Cc: Freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 31 Dec 1999, Tim Werner wrote: > > so clip > same in > (no plant while) op back swirl > same flap. I > count 7 adds. am I wrong? Well at the the very least you should change the notation a bit. When you do that kind of symposium move you need to plant your set leg immediately and lift the other so you are doing the first dex symposium and that's the same leg you land with while the other is doing the swirling x-body flapper. As I count it is indeed 7 adds. 2 for body (symposium and paradox), 2 for dexes, 2 for x-body delay, and 1 for unusual surface. I will also kiss the lavers of the person who EVER lands this cleanly. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 1 12:56:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17808 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:56:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from lorica.ucc.usyd.edu.au (lorica.ucc.usyd.edu.au [129.78.64.15]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26014 for ; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 22:43:18 -0800 Received: from [10.0.5.71] (p1351.net10.usyd.edu.au [10.0.5.71]) by lorica.ucc.usyd.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18386 for ; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 17:47:18 +1100 (EST) X-Sender: mattsb@pop.ozemail.com.au Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 17:56:13 +1100 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Matt Baker Subject: [freestyle] Stupid Hypothetical Pants vs Shorts question Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I've been reading all the old msgs about pants vs shorts that I missed while I was away, and I heartily agree with the fact that wearing shorts is better for your game. However, what do you do when it gets super cold? On my current list of non-interfering, but warm you up quick-like clothing is: - a beanie. I don't think wearing a wooly hat will screw your game, and I remember reading somewhere that 25% of your body heat was lost through your head - polypropylene top and/or leggings. People are saying no shirt, or shirt tucked in. Is a relatively 'terence' (tight) thermal top ok? On top of this I would consider a thin polartec jumper or thin mohair wooly jumper equivalent. That would probably start to cramp the style of the pros, but if it gets to this stage I guess we're talking -10 deg C. - do the type of socks you wear affect your game? You could change low cut sports socks into thorlo walking socks or something I guess. Anyway, my stupid hypothetical question is... if you got relocated to Scott Base, Antarctica, and had to kick, what would you do it in... and in what parts of your body would you sacrifice style for warmth? Or, for those of you who kick in the extreme cold, and have experience in kicking comfortably and remaining warm, what do you do? -matt. I still don't have any remedy for rain and wind though (if you have to kick outside) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 1 21:09:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18311 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 21:09:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01310 for ; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 13:01:37 -0800 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id z.0.730cdf9d (4008) for ; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 16:01:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.730cdf9d.259fc50c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 16:01:00 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Stupid Hypothetical Pants vs Shorts question To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 39 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I don't understand these people that kick outside in the frigid coldness. Why not just go inside. I Shred inside all the time, just in my basement, and I live in Pittsburgh, so I know about cold, but I'm just not seeing a reason for being outside in that kind of coldness. I'm just rambling now, of course, I'm a Teva guy so I wouldn't be caught dead outside shredding below 55 Fahrenheit. Ah well, keep it real in the two triple zero. Pissed off caused I can't find my bag, Owen "Total Package" (nothing to do with my "package") Parrish From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 1 21:09:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18321 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 21:09:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03210 for ; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 17:26:09 -0800 Received: from bluestem (bluestem.prairienet.org [192.17.3.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21007 for ; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 19:26:09 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 19:26:08 -0600 (CST) From: Philip Summers X-Sender: konrad@bluestem To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] eliminating extra words Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I think the REVERSE in reverse mirage and reverse legover is unnecessary. clip > op in > same toe is called a "pickup", so I think toe > op in > same toe should also be a "pickup". If you want to get real techincal in a description, you can specify how the move is set, but for the most part a pickup is just a pickup. Reverse mirage should be called "illusion". I think this is an uncomplicated way to shorten move names. Tell me what you think. -phil "glowstick ninja" From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 2 10:26:18 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA19116 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 10:26:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11397 for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 08:11:03 -0800 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id z.0.ce03ddc6 (3893) for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 11:10:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.ce03ddc6.25a0d272@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 11:10:26 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] eliminating extra words To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 39 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I think illusion would be a fitting name for a reverse mirage, but would that screw up the technical names for stuff. Usually the higher add moves have a name, but then they are also Gyro In-Spinning Reverse Symposium Paradox Blurry Whirling Swirling Flurry, thats an exaggeration of course, so that might get messed up. Right. Still can't find my bag, Owen "Total Package" Parrish From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 2 10:25:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA19111 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 10:25:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web118.yahoomail.com (web118.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.99]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA18416 for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 08:56:48 -0800 Received: (qmail 1455 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jan 2000 16:56:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20000102165650.1454.qmail@web118.yahoomail.com> Received: from [12.79.28.251] by web118.yahoomail.com; Sun, 02 Jan 2000 08:56:50 PST Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 08:56:50 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Lane Subject: [freestyle] tevas To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org whats up everyoen, i just wanted to inquire about the use of tevas for styling. i've tried to use them for small periods of time. and i find it sort of awkward to actually kick in them, nice to stall though. does anyone have any advice on how to use them to the peak of their advantages? thanks for your time. SL From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 2 10:47:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA19166 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 10:47:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f29.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.29]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA30121 for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 10:37:26 -0800 Received: (qmail 88698 invoked by uid 0); 2 Jan 2000 18:36:59 -0000 Message-ID: <20000102183659.88697.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 165.247.41.4 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 02 Jan 2000 10:36:59 PST X-Originating-IP: [165.247.41.4] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Bubba add Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 13:36:59 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Happy New Year! I propose that Bubba receive a body add. Bubba is a clipper set reverse mirage. Think paradox reverse mirage set from other clipper. The notation is Clip (set)> op out. Still, it's best to think of it as clipper set reverse mirage, so you don't think that dyno, reverse whirl, and same side butterfly are bubba, cause they aren't. This is just like nuclear sets, whose notation is clip (set)> same out, but only pick up a body add when there is a clear reverse mirage (i.e. barfly and infinity don't get a body add). Pdx reverse mirage, or the nuclear set pick up a paradox (body) add because you have to turn into the set in order to get the first dex. Example: pdx eggbeater: set from a left foot clipper, turn clockwise (approx 60 degrees), do an out to in dex with your left leg, then an out to in dex with your right leg delaying on your right toe. With Bubba, you also have to turn your body in the direction of the set foot in order to get the first dex. Example: Bubba Eggbeater: set from a right foot clipper, turn counter clockwise (approx 60 degrees), then do an out to in dex with your left leg, followed by an out to in dex with your right leg delaying on a right toe. I maintain that in both cases you have to turn an equal distance in order to get the dexes on the move, just that you turn in different directions. This proposed change would alter the following add values: Bubba eggbeater would go from 3 adds to four. Bubba Flux would go from 4 adds to five, Stepping eggbeater (FT) would go from 4 adds to five, Stepping reverse mirage would go from 3 adds to four. Theoretically bubba atom smasher would become 4 adds, and bubba legbeater would become 5 adds, but I've never seen either of these moves hit cleanly. Summary: I think Bubba involves as much extra body effort as pdx reverse mirage in terms of how much your body has to turn to accomodate the move, and as such it should be given equal add value. What does everybody think? Anybody have problems with the new add values for the moves listed? Disagree with my logic? I think Bubba is one of the bigger flaws in the add system, and it should be addressed. Ken CF Somolinos Bear Feet/NYFA PS- Just so people don't think I'm talking without having any experience on these matters, I've hit bubba eggbeater and pdx eggbeater, and find them to be equally hard. I've also hit Bedwetter and stepping eggbeater, and found them to be equally difficult as well. I actually find stepping reverse mirage to be harder than blizzard. I also think bubba flux would be harder than nuclear osis, because you can't use a set to hit bubba flux. I can't do nuclear sets, but I can do clean shooting sets. Based on my experiences with these various moves, and my understanding of the paradox and body adds under our current add system, I have come up with my proposal. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 2 13:20:13 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19243 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:20:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31929 for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 12:46:58 -0800 Received: from bluestem (bluestem.prairienet.org [192.17.3.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27066 for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:47:03 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:47:02 -0600 (CST) From: Philip Summers X-Sender: konrad@bluestem To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Bubba add In-Reply-To: <20000102183659.88697.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Your message confused me. I was under the impression that "bubba" was a set defined as clip > op out > op. Bubba is a set and eggbeater is a move, so wouldn't a bubba eggbeater have three dexes? And if you are talking about clip > op out > op out > same toe then it could be an eggbeater or a bubba legover (clipper set crispy eggbeater), depending on the timing of the dexes. I don't agree that the dex in a bubba set is paradox, but I think an opposite leg full dex after a bubba set would be. What you refered to as bubba atom smasher (I would call just atom smaher or bubba mirage) should be paradox for the same reason blur is paradox. No matter where the set comes from, legbeater and atom smasher should have the same add count. I have to say, though, that I can't do any bubba moves, except for reverse mirage (illusion) set from op clip (not really a bubba SET at all). My opinion goes only as far as my imagination. phil "glowstick ninja" From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 2 15:54:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19354 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:54:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f33.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.33]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA00654 for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:19:10 -0800 Received: (qmail 72744 invoked by uid 0); 2 Jan 2000 23:18:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20000102231845.72743.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 165.247.25.65 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 02 Jan 2000 15:18:45 PST X-Originating-IP: [165.247.25.65] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: konrad@prairienet.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Bubba add Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 18:18:45 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, Phil Summers wrote: >I was under the impression that "bubba" was a >set defined as clip > op out > op. Bubba is a set and eggbeater is a >move, so wouldn't a bubba eggbeater have three dexes My understanding of a "set" which involves a dex(es)is that the bag is on its way up or at its apex after it's left your foot and you've executed the dex(es), and you are ready to do something. An atomic set is when you do a toe set reverse mirage, and after you get the dex the bag is on still on it's way up (ideal) or at least at its apex, and you are ready to do a move after the set. So far as I know, nobody does Bubba "sets." "Bubba" is a style of reverse mirage, which I am arguing is as difficult as the paradox version. > >I don't agree that the dex in a bubba set is paradox, but I think an >opposite leg full dex after a bubba set would be. I am not saying bubba style reverse mirage is paradox, I am saying that it should be given the same adds as pdx reverse mirage. If your first point was you disagree with this, I will respect it as your opinion. Your second point is wholly unrelated to my post. Eric Wulff's proposed modification to the add system covers the question of full dexes, all I am saying is that Bubba style reverse mirages involve as much of a body element as pdx reverse mirages, and should be valued accordingly. Hope this clarifies things, Ken CF Somolinos Bear Feet/NYFA PS-kicked for the first time since East Must Jam today, first shred of the new year/decade/score/century for me, and I linked 11 unique four add moves! I was wondering what are the records for unique 3s, 4s, 5s, and 6s linked together. I know Dave Holton has linked 15 unique 4s, Ryan has linked 6 unique 5s, and Ahren and Tuan have linked 2 unique 6s. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 2 15:55:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19364 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:55:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Sam Colclough Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00765 for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:37:55 -0800 Received: from MrModern@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id z.0.29fdd1ca (3969) for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:37:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.29fdd1ca.25a13b37@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:37:27 EST Subject: [freestyle] Pixie Symposium Butterfly To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yay! My first 5 add move: toe > same in [DEX] > (no plant while) op out [BOD] [DEX] > op clip [XBD] [DEL] I can do it really smoothly too. This is a pixie symposium butterfly delay right? Does it have a nick name? I only ask because Pixie Symposium Butterfly is a mouthfull. I have also hit smear and hopover swirl. Ok, I don't usually brag but I felt that the occation called for it. Anyway, I'm still in Chicago SCOTT! -Sam Colclough From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 3 10:38:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20273 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:38:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05963; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 00:28:28 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FNR004013JIDB@clem.mscd.edu>; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:28:30 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 01:28:30 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pixie Symposium Butterfly In-reply-to: <0.29fdd1ca.25a13b37@aol.com> To: Sam Colclough Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 2 Jan 2000, Sam Colclough wrote: > Yay! My first 5 add move: > toe > same in [DEX] > (no plant while) op out [BOD] [DEX] > op clip [XBD] > [DEL] I too am a fan of this move, but you have to do it REALLY Cleanly in order to convince most anyone that's it's worth five. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 3 10:44:12 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20285 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:44:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from stone.ec.rockwell.com (firewall-user@stone.ec.rockwell.com [199.191.58.22]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA21476 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 07:36:30 -0800 Received: by stone.ec.rockwell.com; id JAA18781; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 09:24:41 -0600 Received: from borg.switch.rockwell.com(131.198.119.64) by stone.ec.rockwell.com via smap (V5.5) id xma018773; Mon, 3 Jan 00 09:24:38 -0600 Received: from pcklokow.ec.rockwell.com (pcklokow [131.198.116.31]) by borg.switch.rockwell.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA00268 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 09:26:16 -0600 (CST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 09:19:22 -0600 Message-ID: <01BF55CB.9F177560.klokow@ec.rockwell.com> From: Dan Klokow To: "Freestyle (E-mail)" Subject: [freestyle] Some Stretches for yo a**?? Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 09:19:19 -0600 Organization: Rockwell Electronic Commerce X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, Just a quick question..(s) I have recently just started hitting a few new moves which require the 'atomic set'. Now i have been pulling some Atom Smashers and Legbeaters for about 3 weeks or so, but i can only hit like 5 to 10 of these sets before i pull a muscle in my butt. I have been told i do a huge atomic set so this is aparently why i am straining these muscles. Do any of ya know some good a** stretches? and will this eventually go away with time and the muscles getting used to doing this motion?? Thanks! Dan 'The PornStar' Klokow From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 3 10:44:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20295 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:44:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dfw-smtpout1.email.verio.net (dfw-smtpout1.email.verio.net [129.250.36.41]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22030 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 08:47:09 -0800 Received: from [129.250.38.63] (helo=dfw-mmp3.email.verio.net) by dfw-smtpout1.email.verio.net with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #7) id 125Ada-0003dA-00; Mon, 03 Jan 2000 16:47:18 +0000 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (helo=[209.107.90.78]) by dfw-mmp3.email.verio.net with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #7) id 125Acw-0001St-00; Mon, 03 Jan 2000 16:46:39 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19991231200952.25057.qmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:58:36 -0600 To: Jamez Risden , freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson Subject: Re: [freestyle] oh yeah!!! Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi James and all! >Hey Scott man, we should get together and shred >somtime, Chicago's not that far from here!!!! Ive >never seen live shred accept from me and my friend >Adam. Cool. My weekly "public" shred is Sundays from 1-4 at RecPlex in Mt. Prospect, IL. I teach class and shred there. Classes are $20 (covers you for a full seven week session) per seven weeks. If you just come up for a single sunday, then just come out and if we have to, we may have to ask you to pay the $6 day-pass fee. But usually not. New session starts this next Sunday! Anyone interested in freestyle that lives near chicago, should not miss this opportunity! Anyone interested in net or golf or consecs need not attend. :-) Just kidding, the classes are STRICTLY freestyle ONLY! We cover all you need to know about net, golf and consecs in the first 4.20 minutes of the first week of each seven week session. But seriously, if you really insist on learning the other disciplines of footbag, then I can hook you up with the right people in the Chicago area too, just not sunday afternoons at recplex. :-) Specific directions, please call: 847.640.1000 (RecPlex) - Register at front desk. or: 773.237.9255 (Enlightener) See ya! Shred on James! Hope to see you and all the budding freestylers in the Chicago area at our next class session. Last session had 7 shredders, all accelerating their games at breakneck paces... don't miss the boat! Enlightener. Scott Davidson From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 3 15:55:58 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA20525 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:55:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26393 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:36:14 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <20000103233623.NNLS26413.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:36:23 -0800 Message-ID: <3871329D.4AF35251@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 17:37:01 -0600 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Philip Summers CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Bubba add References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Philip Summers wrote: > > I was under the impression that "bubba" was a > set defined as clip > op out > op. >From what I understand, you are right. > Bubba is a set and eggbeater is a > move, so wouldn't a bubba eggbeater have three dexes? Again, from what I understand, you are right. > And if you are > talking about clip > op out > op out > same toe then it could be an > eggbeater or a bubba legover (clipper set crispy eggbeater), depending on > the timing of the dexes. I agree with this. Some people would disagree saying that "crispy" only appies to stepping sets. But, I like to think of crispy as meaning that the set is completed before the rest of the move is done. In other words, a clipper set eggbeater is not bubba unless it is crispy (in which case it would be a bubba opposite side legover). > I don't agree that the dex in a bubba set is paradox, I don't think that is what Ken was saying... He is wanting another ADD to be awarded for the 'clipper set reverse miraging' concept. Since the BOD category gets all the misc. ADDS, he is right in wanting to award it a BOD ADD - not a PDX ADD. > but I think an > opposite leg full dex after a bubba set would be. What you refered to as > bubba atom smasher (I would call just atom smaher or bubba mirage) should > be paradox for the same reason blur is paradox. You are right on. Clipper set atom smasher (or bubba opposite side mirage) is four adds because the mirage does get a paradox. > No matter where the set comes from, legbeater and atom smasher should have > the same add count. Well... you say that they "should" get the same ADD count. I will agree with that, but by current definitions, clipper set atom smasher gets a pdx and toe set doesn't. > I have to say, though, that I can't do any bubba moves, except for reverse > mirage (illusion) set from op clip (not really a bubba SET at all). I hope that JR will get in on this since he has come very close to a lot of bubba type moves. I firmly believe that you you can also hit bubba same side moves - bubba same side mirage (like a clipper set tap), bubba same side butterfly (like a clipper set tapdown), etc. Just my thoughts. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 3 15:59:03 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA20535 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:59:03 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26586 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:51:23 -0800 Received: from CJ264376A ([24.10.226.187]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000103235133.QNPS29981.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@CJ264376A> for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:51:33 -0800 Message-ID: <002001bf5645$a5d07ee0$bbe20a18@alex1.va.home.com> From: "James McCoppin" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Bubba add Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:52:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id PAB20535 The term "bubba" necessarily includes the op out. So there would be no such thing as a bubba eggbeater (or not very possible to hit). If you do a clip or osis op out legover, it's an eggbeater, but from a specific set, and that set if you call it bubba, includes the op out portion of the eggbeater. So it would be called a bubba legover. Jim "ankle poppin" mccoppin From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 3 16:03:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20559 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:03:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26688 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:58:01 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <20000103235809.NXEG26413.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:58:09 -0800 Message-ID: <387137B7.4ABCF2FB@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 17:58:47 -0600 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Philip Summers CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] eliminating extra words References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Philip Summers wrote: > > clip > op in > same toe is called a "pickup", so I think toe > op in > > same toe should also be a "pickup". It is. set > op in > same toe is a pickup. > Reverse mirage should be called "illusion". I > think this is an uncomplicated way to shorten move names. Tell me what > you think. Works for me. Anyone else have an opinion on this name? > I think the REVERSE in reverse mirage and reverse legover is unnecessary. I don't like using 'reverse' in a name either... it just makes names too long. Do you have any ideas for naming reverse whirl? How about reverse swirl (from front to back)? -D From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 3 16:12:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20586 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:12:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20583 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:12:20 -0800 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26906 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:07:48 -0800 Received: from [206.67.46.8] (brat1.atext.com [206.67.46.8]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04817 for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:07:26 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <387137B7.4ABCF2FB@dallasfootbag.org> References: <387137B7.4ABCF2FB@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:07:57 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] eliminating extra words Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 5:58 PM -0600 1/3/00, Derric Scalf wrote: >Philip Summers wrote: > > I think the REVERSE in reverse mirage and reverse legover is unnecessary. > >I don't like using 'reverse' in a name either... it just makes names too >long. Do you have any ideas for naming reverse whirl? How about >reverse swirl (from front to back)? That's hilarious. :-) On the one hand, you (Derric) are advocating calling torque "stepping op osis", but on the other you want to eliminate words that describe direction of dexterities. Wonderful. :-) The reality is that you can't legislate the *popular* naming of moves. You *can* come up with a technical name for a move that clearly differentiates the move from other moves. Currently, we have lots of names in both of these categories, and some that straddle the categories. It's just not that easy to go and start randomly simplifying the naming system. Many common names for moves are simply modifiers of names for other moves that are otherwise the same (aside from some modification). Hence terms like "reverse" and "opposite-side" and "paradox" and "spinning" and the like. These are *not* meant to describe how to hit the move -- they're simply the common names for the moves that people generally agree on. You can't use names for moves to describe how to hit them. But you also can't just go inventing new vocabulary just 'cause you don't like the current one. There's just no point. A move by any other name ... and all that. And the more we argue about this type of nonsense, the more we confuse new players who are trying desperately to learn the language we already speak. I'd much rather see folks focus their energy on figuring out how plants and windows affect difficulty, since therein lies the secret to why out-in dexterities for some moves are considered "reverse" where as in-out in other moves are "reverse". Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 4 10:10:00 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21504 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:10:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f102.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.102]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA19914 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 05:32:26 -0800 Received: (qmail 58990 invoked by uid 0); 4 Jan 2000 13:31:49 -0000 Message-ID: <20000104133149.58989.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 165.247.44.35 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 05:31:49 PST X-Originating-IP: [165.247.44.35] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: derric@dallasfootbag.org, Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Bubba add Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 08:31:49 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, Derric wrote responding to Phil: > > > > I was under the impression that "bubba" was a > > set defined as clip > op out > op. > > >From what I understand, you are right. > I have never seen anyone hit a bubba set. I have never seen anyone come close to a bubba set. I don't think I will see a bubba set anytime soon. I HAVE seen people do bubba style reverse mirages. If Bubba is a set, then the bag would be on its way up or at its apex after the dex. I've never seen anybody do this. If Bubba really were a set, we would have seen bubba legbeater, bubba atom smasher, sealed bubba flux, etc by now. The reason these moves are still theoretical is because BUBBA IS NOT A SET. Bubba is a STYLE of reverse mirage. That said, I believe Bubba involves as much hip movement as paradox reverse mirage. Just in the opposite direction. Because of this, I feel it deserves a body add. Bubba: Clipper set reverse mirage that is not a set, and involves as much hip pivot as a paradox reverse mirage, yet currently receives no extra body add. If somebody out there is actually doing bubba SETS, then more power to you. Right now bubba is just a way of doing reverse mirages, and it isn't a set. So now that we've hopefully cleared this up, who else feels this should get an extra body add? Ken CF Somolinos Bear Feet/NYFA From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 4 10:09:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21497 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:09:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05206 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 02:22:52 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FNT00A013HXA5@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 03:22:46 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 03:22:45 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Bubba add In-reply-to: <3871329D.4AF35251@dallasfootbag.org> To: Derric Scalf Cc: Philip Summers , freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Now I have to admit I have not read all of the bubba posts of late, but I'd still like to add to it. I think that bubba may indeed deserve an extra add in the Body category for whatever that's worth. This next part kind of goes along with the other posts about eliminating the extra terms. It seems there are usually at least 3 different ways of describing or naming moves. There's Jobs which gives the technical notation of the moves components: clip>op out>op toe. Then theres a simplistic way using english: clipper set reverse mirage or Bubba toe. Then there's usually a cool name: (recently) illusion. Now I'm using the clipper version since this is a mix post between talking Bubba and eliminating stuff. So here's my point. I think that where the set comes from should help define the cool name of the move. It does not necessarily have to be in the move name, but the name should be separate so as to distinguish the move. So when we are talking about clipper set eggbeater or Bubba legover we should not even be calling it anything eggbeater where the cool name is concerned. I don't know if I'm being very clear but the move just needs a different name. So the cool name for a bubba legover can be something like "Garden Weasel". Okay, I'm done confusing you and me both. I'm outta here, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 4 10:22:32 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21536 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:22:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21533 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:22:31 -0800 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24124 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:18:08 -0800 Received: from [206.67.46.8] (brat1.atext.com [206.67.46.8]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA23782 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:17:33 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000104133149.58989.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <20000104133149.58989.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:18:10 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Bubba add Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 8:31 AM -0500 1/4/00, KeN Somolinos wrote: >So now that we've hopefully cleared this up, who else feels this >should get an extra body add? Moves don't "get" adds. It is simply a matter of interpreting for any given move whether or not the add is already there. Our add system is antiquated. If a move doesn't fall into one of the explicitly defined categories below, it does not "get" any other adds. Once we find enough examples of moves that don't fit (that we all agree are harder but that aren't represented in the current system), we need to figure out *why* and come up with a new theory of difficulty (and throw out the old add system). Until then, please everyone stop arguing about whether certain moves "deserve" adds in an antiquated system: body (see * below) cross-body delay dexterity unusual surface * the body add category currently stands in for two extra add categories that are *immutable* (well defined, not open to interpretation in the current system) and were invented slightly later than the original 5: - body.paradox - body.symposium The definition of body.paradox is well known, though often debated. Bubba does not fall into the current definition of body.paradox. Since body.paradox is exceptional and breaks several of the assumptions of the original add system, extending its meaning to include even more moves would be inane. Either we're using the old system, or we're using a new system. Thanks. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 4 23:19:37 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA23754 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:19:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00982 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:08:05 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <20000105070800.QQVC15292.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:08:00 -0800 Message-ID: <3872EE10.96C19B44@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 01:09:04 -0600 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Gimping Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. What exactly is a gimp? Can it be set from anywhere (toe, clip, pixie set, stepping set, spinning, etc.)? Does the gimp have to be done with the set leg? Is a dex needed after the gimp? Does the gimping leg have to do the next component (dex or stall)? What are some different variations of gimping moves? Thanks. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 4 23:26:31 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA23779 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:26:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01381 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:21:37 -0800 Received: from [206.67.46.8] (brat1.atext.com [206.67.46.8]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA13270; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:21:14 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3872EE10.96C19B44@dallasfootbag.org> References: <3872EE10.96C19B44@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:21:50 -0800 To: Derric Scalf From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gimping Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:09 AM -0600 1/5/00, Derric Scalf wrote: >What exactly is a gimp? It's not a move. It's just the term for when you do a knee-bump in the middle of what would otherwise be a move. So for example, you can turn a blur into two moves -- miraging knee-bump to what would otherwise be paradox mirage if you hadn't bumped it. >Can it be set from anywhere (toe, clip, pixie set, stepping set, >spinning, etc.)? It's not a move, so the question doesn't make sense. A gimp is really no more than a knee bump. We call moves that get broken into two moves "gimpy". So the above is a "gimpy blur" but of course it's not really a blur. It's two moves -- a miraging knee-bump (one hellatious add) and a mirage (two big fat adds). So the total add count for a gimpy blur is actually *less* than the add count for a regular blur. :-) >Does the gimp have to be done with the set leg? Grr. >Is a dex needed after the gimp? Double grr. >Does the gimping leg have to do the next component (dex or stall)? Oh man, I thought I was Mr. Technical. C'mon, some things just aren't technical. Gimp is just a flourish. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 5 22:16:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25239 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:16:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail2.gmx.net (mail2.gmx.net [194.221.183.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA18111 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 15:48:10 -0800 Received: (qmail 11885 invoked by uid 0); 5 Jan 2000 23:47:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO quarktasche) (212.144.128.159) by mail2.gmx.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2000 23:47:57 -0000 Message-ID: <002f01bf57d7$456fc040$9f8090d4@quarktasche> From: "Matthias Lino Schmidt" To: Subject: [freestyle] Question on Hop/ Walk Over Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 00:47:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everybody! I really have a problem to understand why Walk Over and Hop Over are both worth two adds. The Walk Over gets adds for Delay and Dexterity, the Hop Over for Body and Delay. It seems to me that the move the so called support leg does - walking or hopping over the delaying leg into a xbd-position is the same in both cases, having the only difference between walking and hopping. Allright? But if all that is right Hop Over should be worth three adds, getting an add for the dexterity - Does anybody think it is not a dexterity? It is the same like there is in the Walk Over, just executed in the air without planting the delaying leg. Even if add-count is not really a classification of difficulty, giving both moves different add-values could show that Hop Over is much harder than Walk Over, which seems to me to be a very silly move. Maybe I am completely wrong at all and somebody can explain me or this little bug needs to be fixed. That¥s all Folks, keep shredding Matthias........................................................... From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 5 22:16:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25237 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:16:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13618 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:15:30 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <20000105181528.XSDH15292.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:15:28 -0800 Message-ID: <38738A89.AC84EE14@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:16:41 -0600 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Judging stuff... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org One more question - well, ok, two more... In the 45 second shred contest judging, does the set matter for determining unique moves? In other words, is a toe set torque different from a clipper set torque? And are both of these different from kicking into a torque? And for the other question... By current Worlds judging, would either of these three moves be unique? Thanks. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 5 22:29:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25263 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:29:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25260 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:29:06 -0800 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22672 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:24:38 -0800 Received: from [206.67.46.8] (brat1.atext.com [206.67.46.8]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA22677 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:24:05 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38738A89.AC84EE14@dallasfootbag.org> References: <38738A89.AC84EE14@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:24:45 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Judging stuff... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:16 PM -0600 1/5/00, Derric Scalf wrote: >In the 45 second shred contest judging, does the set matter for >determining unique moves? There is no formal set of rules for the 45-second shred contest. In many shred constests, uniqueness isn't even an issue. But where it is, usually it's up to the judge(s) to decide whether moves are unique. It is more an art than a science to know which moves are unique right now. >By current Worlds judging, would either of these three moves be unique? The set does not always make a move unique in the official IFC rules, but the judge can decide if a move is substantively different as a result of the set (or even of the execution style). This is not the same as the difficulty -- many moves have the same difficulty but are considered unique. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 6 08:26:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA25755 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:26:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f288.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.240.82]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA12092 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 07:05:38 -0800 Received: (qmail 59632 invoked by uid 0); 6 Jan 2000 15:04:55 -0000 Message-ID: <20000106150455.59631.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 07:04:55 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: brat@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Judging stuff... Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 09:04:55 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Bit long but worth it... >From: Steve Goldberg and Derric Scalf >>By current Worlds judging, would either of these three moves be unique? > >The set does not always make a move unique in the official IFC rules, >but the judge can decide if a move is substantively different as a >result of the set (or even of the execution style). This is not the >same as the difficulty -- many moves have the same difficulty but are >considered unique. Pardon me, but I think this seems a bit ignorant. Not the statements nor the people who made them, but the IFC rules of this situation. This is an area that the IFC Freestyle committee should consider worthy of debate (I realize I might take some shit like, "Well, get in IFC and do it!" Sorry, I REALLY do not have time for such things--I just thought it didn't seem right to me and I would voice my opinion on this forum). I know many players, unfortunately myself not included--yet, who choreograph their entire routines. I will not toss names. But, if anyone is trying to fill a card, a clear cut definition of what makes a move unique or not could be critical between a win and a loss. Poor example, but example nonetheless: Look at the minute difference in scores between Open 1st and 2nd place at World's last year. Suppose, speaking VERY hypothetically here, Ryan had busted toe torque, pixie op osis, torque, kick torque, and stepping op osis--(PLEASE do not argue over whether all or none of these are different--that is not the point.) The point is, say we had a body judge on the panel who happened to feel there were only two unique moves in this string and a cross-body judge who felt they were all the same move. Well, say Ryan had fully thought there was AT LEAST four unique moves here, but wanted the same look in these moves for a bit of flash/flare in his routine. He gets screwed into second place. MAIN POINT: If a move is executed flawlessly, judges should be consistent from one add category to the next in their scoring of that move. Now, I apologize if my situation doesn't actually cover the margin of victory of the win, but "detailed results" were never provided for me to reference... :) Ah, the simple solution... Don't put any combination of moves--in which sets might lead to ambiguity of the uniqueness of the move--in your routine. That doesn't seem reasonable, or fair, in my opinion. Any one else got one? Later, Ian D. PS I would like to apologize to Ryan for using his name as an example, but it is the only result, that most people can associate with, that was decided by such a small margin. AND, THIS WAS A TOTALLY HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION--IT DID NOT ACTUALLY OCCUR. Ryan's REAL routine was dope. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 6 08:26:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA25750 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:26:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11808 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 06:50:20 -0800 Received: from knuckles.excite.com ([199.172.148.179]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20000106144838.NWKO4214.ewey.excite.com@knuckles.excite.com> for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 06:48:38 -0800 Message-ID: <15983955.947170118694.JavaMail.imail@knuckles.excite.com> Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 06:48:38 -0800 (PST) From: Vince Bradley Reply-To: To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Gimpy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 128.8.82.142 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey i disagree with Steve- gimp sets are specifically designated as clipper set mirages followed by a knee bump with the setting leg's knee. my reasoning for this is that i've already heard a naming convention for a variation on the gimpy set concept, and it's called 'pimpy'. i think the variation is a switch of which knee bumps to the dex leg. historically, for Derric's benefit, i think the gimp concept was named in Tuan and Tu's messy temple, around the same time the Royale and the Royale with Cheese were named. i think Jane Jones and I were there, and probably Pete Irish also. though my memory is a bit hazy. the actual set concept had been around for sometime before that ( it was named around the time Pulp Fiction hit the theaters), though i don't remember who was working on it first. I'd guess it was Tuan or Pete in the east, probably inspired by Derrick Fogle or Cedar. i think he was named Cedar... anyone know Cedar's whereabouts? phenomenal freestyler, no delays. i thought he was from northern california, maybe colorado, but i don't know. incredibly fast flow of kicking spinning flying moves. in 93 and 94 he had longish blond wavy hair, spoke rarely and then quietly, and just moved super fast with complete control over his constant kicks. one of the most impressive kickers i've ever seen, anyway. wel, i've rambled enough. l8r- 'crastan8r From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 6 08:41:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA25781 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:41:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25778 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:41:19 -0800 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12989 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:36:50 -0800 Received: from [206.67.46.8] (brat1.atext.com [206.67.46.8]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA21662 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:36:19 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <15983955.947170118694.JavaMail.imail@knuckles.excite.com> References: <15983955.947170118694.JavaMail.imail@knuckles.excite.com> Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:36:54 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Re: Gimpy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 6:48 AM -0800 1/6/00, Vince Bradley wrote: >i disagree with Steve- gimp sets are specifically designated >as clipper set mirages followed by a knee bump with the setting >leg's knee. Sorry.. I didn't say that, but that's what I meant. Here's an excerpt from a follow-up I sent in private to Derric: I wrote: >a "gimp" is a stepping knee-bump by all recknoning. But the term >"stepping" doesn't really apply to knee-bump (see my long-awaited >"plants, steps, and touches" write-up). So it's probably just >defined in Jobs: clip > op in dex > op knee bump. But the term is only used when the knee bump is used to break up moves that have a stepping start (either blurry or not) for which it would make sense to do a knee bump in between. I'm sure originally it happened by mistake (anyone who tries blurry or stepping moves will eventually do one by mistake). I guess Pete Irish really made these popular -- he tends to do them a lot. Even though they officially constitute a "guilt", when thrown into the middle of a difficult combo, they are considered way cool and therefore guilt free. :-) Vince wrote: >anyone know Cedar's whereabouts? He was from Taos, New Mexico. I last saw him at Worlds 94 (I think). I think he pretty much quit the game. Never heard from him since. >one of the most impressive kickers i've ever seen, anyway. I'd tend to agree. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 6 08:48:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA25795 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:48:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25792 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:48:45 -0800 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13040 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:44:16 -0800 Received: from [206.67.46.8] (brat1.atext.com [206.67.46.8]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22396 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:43:44 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000106150455.59631.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <20000106150455.59631.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:44:26 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Judging stuff... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:04 AM -0600 1/6/00, Ian Dubman wrote: >>The set does not always make a move unique in the official IFC rules, >>but the judge can decide if a move is substantively different as a >>result of the set (or even of the execution style). This is not the >>same as the difficulty -- many moves have the same difficulty but are >>considered unique. > >Pardon me, but I think this seems a bit ignorant. Yeah, well there are a lot of things wrong with the IFC freestyle rules. Hence all the argument and discussion on this list for the last 4 years. :-) >This is an area that the IFC Freestyle committee should consider >worthy of debate (I realize I might take some shit like, "Well, get >in IFC and do it!" Sorry, I REALLY do not have time for such things Heh heh. Neither do I. :-) >But, if anyone is trying to fill a card, a clear cut definition of >what makes a move unique or not could be critical between a win and >a loss. That's bogus. The math behind how this level of distinction between what makes moves unique affects your score in such a small way that it's really in the noise. Yes it matters, but it's not that important. There was a long raging debate on this list two years ago about what "variety" means, and how the current IFC system fails miserably at defining it well in technical terms. I don't have time to go into it now, though. >The point is, say we had a body judge on the panel who happened to >feel there were only two unique moves in this string and a >cross-body judge who felt they were all the same move. But it wouldn't matter that much. The reality is that freestyle is a *judged* discipline, and a statistically significant part of the score comes from the subjective part of the judging system. Arguing over a single technical score is far too difficult in this context. Ultimately, the numbers are just tools for the judges to compare players. If a judge is *consistent* in the technique he or she uses to assign the scores, all other things aside (and there are a lot of other things), it generally won't be an issue. But, fundamentally, judging is a *subjective* process, and so if judges disagree with players over certain aspects of their routine, there is not much we can do. The fact is that there are very few cases where uniqueness is disagreed on by most players. The rules can't accommodate every single minor dispute since not everything is agreed on 100% across the board, and not everything is documented down to the final position. And even if it was, not everyone could possibly remember it. So, the rule of thumb for judging is that you give the judges a clear framework for making decisions, and do your best to educate them as to the philosophy behind the system, and otherwise rely on their knowledge of the sport from their involvement in this list and participation in the competition themselves. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 6 22:51:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26614 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:51:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f250.hotmail.com [216.32.181.250]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA18287 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:52:53 -0800 Received: (qmail 89862 invoked by uid 0); 6 Jan 2000 21:52:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20000106215215.89861.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.181.93.209 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 13:52:15 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.181.93.209] From: "Mickey Mayer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Question on Hop/ Walk Over Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:52:15 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Matt, >But if all that is right Hop Over should be worth three adds, getting >an >add for the dexterity - Does anybody think it is not a dexterity? If it does deserve anything, it deserves a symposium add. But don't let adds fool you, they really don't mean much. The Mouse From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 6 22:51:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26624 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:51:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.134]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15151 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:17:15 -0800 Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust145.tnt13.chi5.da.uu.net [63.22.170.145]) by penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22259 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:17:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3874DBEE.85A893E@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 12:16:15 -0600 From: Tim Werner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Dragons Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In my free time the past couple of days i've been trying to hit a dragon and every time I try I can't get the surface flat enough I can hit cross body heel stalls way easier and it angers me that that's a 3 add and the one i'm trying to hit is 2 :) anybody have any tips? any ideas on what I might be doing wrong? thanx Tim "The Novice" Werner From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 6 22:51:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26634 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:51:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f249.hotmail.com [216.32.181.249]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA18685 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:14:18 -0800 Received: (qmail 89819 invoked by uid 0); 6 Jan 2000 22:13:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20000106221347.89818.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.181.93.209 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 14:13:47 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.181.93.209] From: "Mickey Mayer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Notations Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 17:13:47 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, Hope everyone's fine. I just want to know the notations for some moves that aren't on the list. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Please if you aren't sure on the notations, don't answer back because when three people give you different notations for a move, it tends to get a little confusing :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Here they are... Royale Royale w/cheese Assassin Motion Locomotion Any move ending with a dragon like Spitfire, etc. If anyone has any other notations for moves NOT on the list (and has a little time) and would like to list them here, I'd really appreciate it and I'm sure others would too. Thanks. By the way, I really think that there should be a page on Footbag Worldwide that is dedicated to dragon moves. I think, whoever has been updating it should give it some thought. Later shredders, The Mouse From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 6 22:51:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26644 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:51:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20201 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:06:05 -0800 Received: from mail4.magma.ca (mail4.magma.ca [206.191.0.222]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09374 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:06:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from dave (port68.magma.ca [206.191.5.68]) by mail4.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA04534 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:06:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000e01bf58a2$970fbb00$0b01010a@dave> From: "Dave Reid" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Question on Hop/ Walk Over Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:03:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org -----Original Message----- > I'm into that. Nice disclaimer. :) I will now add mine: The statements below are based on only a limited amount of exposure to freestyle, and the guy writing them may be mentally unstable. >I really have a problem to understand why Walk Over and Hop Over are both >worth two adds. The answer is simple. Walk Over should be a one add move. I'm sure there was some logic when the system came into being, but it doesn't make sense now. There is absolutely positively no delay in a Walk Over. >Even if add-count is not really a classification of difficulty, giving both >moves different add-values could show that Hop Over is much harder than Walk >Over, which seems to me to be a very silly move. Yes, Hop Over is much harder, and the definitions are very questionable. I believe there is also something called a Wrap that falls into the same category. When the freestyle fairy finally arrives and grants everyone's wish of a new (first?) difficulty rating system for moves, all of these little questions will disappear. Dave "Everyone seems to feel obliged to have something in quotes in the middle of their name around here" Reid From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 6 22:52:13 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26654 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:52:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21159 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:13:44 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <20000107011343.YXGI15292.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:13:43 -0800 Message-ID: <38753E28.D0ECD497@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 19:15:20 -0600 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ian Dubman CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Judging stuff... References: <20000106150455.59631.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Still on this uniqueness thing... Ian Dubman wrote: > > Poor example, but example nonetheless: Look at the minute difference in > scores between Open 1st and 2nd place at World's last year. Suppose, > speaking VERY hypothetically here, Ryan had busted toe torque, pixie op > osis, torque, kick torque, and stepping op osis--(PLEASE do not argue over > whether all or none of these are different--that is not the point.) The > point is, say we had a body judge on the panel who happened to feel there > were only two unique moves in this string and a cross-body judge who felt > they were all the same move. Well, say Ryan had fully thought there was AT > LEAST four unique moves here, but wanted the same look in these moves for a > bit of flash/flare in his routine. He gets screwed into second place. MAIN > POINT: If a move is executed flawlessly, judges should be consistent from > one add category to the next in their scoring of that move. Steve brought up a good point that in Worlds Style judging, the small discrepancy in the technical scoring probably would not alter the final outcome of the event - though it is possible. This is because any error in the technical score would be a small fraction of a single point in a category that is outweighed by presentation, total ADDs, etc. But, what about the Shred contests? These competitions are based only on difficulty with a major portion of the score coming from the number of unique guiltless moves. In this type of judging, the discrepancy that Ian brought up would have an even larger impact on the final scores. For this reason, I think that is important to come up with a consistent knowledge of the things that make a move unique. I am really interrested in hearing the thoughts from those of you who have held a Shred Contest in the past (Ryan, Dave, Eli, etc.). -D P.S. Would a gimpy stepping mirage (clip > op in > op knee bump > op in > op toe) be considered a unique *guiltless* move, or just a 1 to a 2? From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 6 22:52:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26676 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:52:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailhost.cmc.net (mailhost.cmc.net [206.102.31.250]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21257 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:20:36 -0800 Received: from cmc.net (pm4-82.chico.cmc.net [12.7.203.83]) by mailhost.cmc.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA28209 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:20:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38753F50.7B79377D@cmc.net> Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 17:20:16 -0800 From: Joshua Feltman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] ankle weights Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everybody, anyone use ankle weights for increased strength/speed? Do they work? Thanks, Josh Feltman From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 6 22:54:52 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26692 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:54:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (qmail 2675 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jan 2000 01:45:13 -0000 Message-ID: <20000107014513.2674.qmail@web2006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [161.98.1.196] by web2006.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 17:45:13 PST Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:45:13 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Re: judging stuff To: freestyle@list.footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At the Colo Shred Symposium judging unique moves will be subjective, under close scrutiny by experienced freestylers on video review; it will be determined by consensus (with the exception of Jonathan Schneider because he disagrees with everyone about everything) after everyone with an opinion has discussed the scenario (that's my plug for Anarchy). In *most* cases, different sets will be counted as different tricks, hence unique. (After much interpersonal debate) I feel like determining uniqueness should not be linked to difficulty. However it is up to the judges. We are not currently preparing to have "on the spot" judging, but this may change. Eli p.s. there has been a LOCATION CHANGE for the Symp. Look for that upcoming email, and go to http://www.footbag.org/events for more info. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 9 09:15:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01444 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 09:15:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12918 for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 01:18:03 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FO000N01F60T0@clem.mscd.edu> for Freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 02:18:00 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 02:18:00 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Dragons In-reply-to: <3874DBEE.85A893E@earthlink.net> To: Tim Werner Cc: Freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Tim Werner wrote: > In my free time the past couple of days i've been trying to hit a dragon > and every time I try I can't get the surface flat enough I can hit > cross body heel stalls way easier and it angers me that that's a 3 add > and the one i'm trying to hit is 2 :) anybody have any tips? any ideas > on what I might be doing wrong? thanx To start, try carrying the bag over to x-body from an outside stall. that will help with getting your foot to flex right. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 9 09:16:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01459 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 09:16:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f160.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.160]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA23615 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 19:43:07 -0800 Received: (qmail 14353 invoked by uid 0); 8 Jan 2000 03:42:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20000108034237.14352.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 165.247.24.37 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:42:37 PST X-Originating-IP: [165.247.24.37] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] more gimpy Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 22:42:37 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, With all this recent talk of gimping, it struck me that fliers in the middle of runs are like gimpy moves. Eric Wulff's blurry dragonfly to torque is kind of gimpy. One could say it is a blurry barroque with a flying inside kick in the middle to breal up the move. Doing a flyer in the middle of a string is very similar to gimpiness. More of an observation than a thought really. On a completely unrelated note: what was the first triple dex move to ever be hit? Almost sounds like a trivia question to me... CF From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 9 09:16:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01458 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 09:16:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12320 for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 01:16:10 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FO000N01F2ORH@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 02:16:00 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 02:16:00 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Question on Hop/ Walk Over In-reply-to: <000e01bf58a2$970fbb00$0b01010a@dave> To: Dave Reid Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Dave Reid wrote: > >I really have a problem to understand why Walk Over and Hop Over are both > >worth two adds. > > The answer is simple. Walk Over should be a one add move. I'm sure there > was some logic when the system came into being, but it doesn't make sense > now. There is absolutely positively no delay in a Walk Over. Wow I guess I haven't checked the move list in a while, but I was under the impression that hop over was a 3 add move because as I recall hop over swirl was worth 4 and the only difference is an added dex in the swirl part. As for the walkover, I think there is a delay only not a thrown and caught delay. It's more like a continued delay. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 9 09:16:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01478 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 09:16:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web2002.mail.yahoo.com (web2002.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.202]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA18401 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:10:53 -0800 Received: (qmail 26256 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jan 2000 21:10:53 -0000 Message-ID: <20000107211053.26255.qmail@web2002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [161.98.1.148] by web2002.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 13:10:53 PST Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:10:53 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Colorado Shred Symposium To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, freestylers. The Colorado Shred Symposium draws near: February 19-21, 2000 in Boulder, Colorado. THis event is hosted by the Boulder Blades and will draw many of the world's greatest players. Come join us. Now is the time to make your travel plans. We will have two rounds of shred competition for professional and intermediate competitors. You do not have to compete to join in the fun: just come with your blades sharpened. For more information, go to http://www.footbag.org/events where there are complete details, including directions to the sites. Please reply if you are coming or are considering, and I will add you to the list. Email me with any questions. Again, make your travel plans now. We hope to see you. Eli Piltz Boulder Blades From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 9 09:16:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01479 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 09:16:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dfw-smtpout3.email.verio.net (dfw-smtpout3.email.verio.net [129.250.36.43]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16990 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:44:02 -0800 Received: from [129.250.38.64] (helo=dfw-mmp4.email.verio.net) by dfw-smtpout3.email.verio.net with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #7) id 126fIn-0000K2-00; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:44:01 +0000 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (helo=[209.107.90.78]) by dfw-mmp4.email.verio.net with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #7) id 126fIk-0001Z7-00; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:43:59 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:01:06 -0600 To: Joshua Feltman , freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson Subject: Re: [freestyle] ankle weights Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Joshua! At 5:20 PM -0800 1/6/00, Joshua Feltman wrote: >Hey everybody, >anyone use ankle weights for increased strength/speed? Do they work? NO! I believe if you read the packaging, they caution you against even running in ankle weights. I would consider them for a low-impact aerobic exercise, or walking, maybe for around the office or home. I think the only thing they would work for in freestyle is tearing the cartilage in your knees, or perhaps making you prone to hyperextension or something like that. I once used some (before I switched to Spenco Insoles) water filled insoles that weighed about 60 grams each, and I noticed a huge difference when I went to spencos (at about 6 grams each), but no increase in speed, just timing problems. I would caution against using ankle weights during hi-impact aerobic activities. If you insist on it, I would say to build up the weights slowly, start with low weight and do 10 to 20 workouts at that weight then add some and do many more workouts, then add more. But I recommend against it. Simply practicing is really what you need most. Keep shredding! See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 9 09:19:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01505 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 09:19:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web803.mail.yahoo.com (web803.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.63]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA21776 for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 18:47:09 -0800 Received: (qmail 1779 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Jan 2000 02:47:08 -0000 Message-ID: <20000109024708.1778.qmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.207.177] by web803.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 18:47:08 PST Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 18:47:08 -0800 (PST) From: Jamez Risden Subject: [freestyle] yeah! To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, Im kinda happy that I hit 6 consec ripwalks for the second time.... thats all. later, Jamez From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 11 06:56:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA03514 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 06:56:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Evan Edmondson Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.65]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15212 for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 11:08:52 -0800 Received: from MasteCid@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id z.50.50718007 (3963) for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 14:07:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <50.50718007.25aa368e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 14:07:58 EST Subject: [freestyle] Reverse Osis and Osis Butterfly kick. . .are these anything? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello everyone. One day after school I hit a what I call Reverse Osis. What I did I set it from a left clipper, spun (counterclockwise) then delayed it on my right toe. Does this count? If so how many adds. I also, hit what I call a Osis Butterfly kick. I set it from a left clipper spun counterclockwise then without doing anything else,(such as a regular kick or stall or anything) I did a butterfly kick. I was so happy that I hit it. Is this one trick or is it a combo or somthing? How many adds is it if it is one trick? I study the footbag list in my free time and I havn't seen anything like it. -Evan "The 14 yearold Skykicker" Edmondson From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 11 07:00:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03526 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:00:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.134]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19406 for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 17:35:02 -0800 Received: from default (ip129.chicago25.il.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.167.129]) by penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA29697 for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 17:34:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004301bf5b0a$4839a080$03fefea9@default> From: "Robert Martin" To: Subject: [freestyle] Millenium Lavers and a move question Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 19:30:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was wondering if anyone could give a quick review on the new millenium Lavers. And i was also wondering if this could happen A spinning swirling flapper barfly. Thanks, cya From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 11 07:08:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03544 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:08:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f39.hotmail.com [216.32.181.39]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA21701 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:26:00 -0800 Received: (qmail 59797 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jan 2000 03:25:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20000111032529.59796.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.167.115.202 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:25:29 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.167.115.202] From: "Ryan Britt" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] ankle weights Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 03:25:29 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Hey everybody, >anyone use ankle weights for increased strength/speed? Do they work? For shredding, no, it isn't safe to use ankle weights (as Scott said). However, I do excercises with them to strenthen my legs. I used to always pull groin muscles when doing moves involving toe stalls (I guess my legs didn't like the constant up-and-down jerky motion) Anyway, I got a pair of ankle weights and did excercises to help condition my legs. I would wear the weights and (while standing) SLOWLY lift one leg up, hold for a bit, then SLOWLY let it back down. I'm sure there are many other good excercises you can use to build up your muscles. Slow, steady excercises help strengthen the muscles that you use when doing toe stalls, and make you less likely to mess up something. So anyway, if you find that your legs are hurting after shred sessions, you might try excercising using the weights. Hope this helps. - Ryan Britt From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 11 07:08:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03554 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:08:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23873 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 21:37:12 -0800 Received: from dsl (dialup-209.245.79.221.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [209.245.79.221]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA13126 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 21:37:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000001bf5bf5$b872a720$dd4ff5d1@pacbell.net> Reply-To: "Sam Colclough" From: "Sam Colclough" To: "Freestyle Mailing List" Subject: [freestyle] Peter Pan's Broken Ankle Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:59:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just heard that Windsen Pan broke his ankle yesterday while playing basketball. Windsen has been a big influence on me even though I have never met him in person. He runs a great website which I have used to learn such moves as smear and accually pixie set. He is the nicest guy and I hope he heals quickly and his ankle becomes super ankle that can take multiple strings of symposium moves. I remember when I started freestyling and I met Windsen online. He started about the same time as me and now he is already pushing 4 dex moves. I'm barely scraping the head of my 2 dex moves. I don't think even in the next few months, while he is off his ankle, I stand a chance of catching up. Windsen was going to take the cake at his next tournament I think. He had quite a few flurrys and triple dex moves in his routine I hear ;-). I wish him my best. Sam Colclough http://www.penny-lane.com/sam From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 11 07:08:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03564 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:08:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24385 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:06:13 -0800 Received: from dsl (dialup-209.245.79.221.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [209.245.79.221]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00635 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:06:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003401bf5bf9$c4698fe0$dd4ff5d1@pacbell.net> Reply-To: "Sam Colclough" From: "Sam Colclough" To: "Freestyle Mailing List" Subject: [freestyle] New move? Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:04:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Seriously, I know I am the last one to come up with a new move. I hit a Paradox Blender and a Paradox Da Da Curve today though. Wee. Ok anyway, I did try to find this on the move list first: clip > op in [dex] > op out [dex] > (BACK) spin [bod] > SAME CLIP [xbd] [del] It's a miraging refraction right? I was practicing ripwalks and I bailed into an osis but accidentally did a refraction. Thanks! Sam Colclough http://www.penny-lane.com/sam From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 11 07:25:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03624 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:25:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03621 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:25:49 -0800 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24929 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:48:16 -0800 Received: from [206.67.46.8] (brat1.atext.com [206.67.46.8]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10583 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:47:46 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000001bf5bf5$b872a720$dd4ff5d1@pacbell.net> References: <000001bf5bf5$b872a720$dd4ff5d1@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:48:27 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Eric Wulff's knee (was: Peter Pan's Broken Ankle) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 7:59 PM -0800 1/10/00, Sam Colclough wrote: > I just heard that Windsen Pan broke his ankle yesterday That sucks. I'm sure if he's like most 15-year-olds (are you 15 yet, Windsen?) he'll be back in action in a month or two... Unfortunately, that's not the end of the story.. another important injury happened recently... Eric Wulff tore the last vestiges of his ACL (in his knee) recently. After the MRI showed that the tear was 100%, he decided to have surgery. So, last Friday, he went under the knife (so to speak -- I'm pretty sure it was arthroscopic ACL restoration using a donor ACL from a cadaver). Eric should be back in action by Worlds, and hopefully even before, but it's going to be a long winter and spring for Rico Suave Wulffie. Eric and Windsen, my thoughts are with you both. Having myself had two major injuries (knee and ankle), and surgery on my knee, I can empathize with your situations. But stay with the physical therapy, treat yourself well, and you'll be back stronger than before, no doubt (unlike me :-) heh heh). Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 11 07:29:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03642 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:29:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24839 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:40:56 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <20000111064055.UICB15292.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:40:55 -0800 Message-ID: <387AD0A6.D81292E6@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 00:41:42 -0600 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Martin CC: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Millenium Lavers and a move question References: <004301bf5b0a$4839a080$03fefea9@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Robert Martin wrote: > And i was also wondering if this could happen A spinning > swirling flapper barfly. Could it happen? Sure. Will it happen? Doubtful :) A spinning barfly is called a "scorpion's tail". That part I've seen. A flapper is a crossbody sole kick. That part I've seen. Someone posted a while back about a swirling sole kick. It would be hard to complete the swirl dexterity cleanly and then get in a kick with the swirling foot. I'll believe it when I see it. And about the "scorpion's tail swirl" part of the move... I'll believe it when I see it. So, your scoripon's tail swirling flapper kick will not be hit for a while. Good luck on any attempts. If you start getting close, get it on film so the rest of us can see it. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 11 07:29:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03637 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:29:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24778 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:36:02 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <20000111063600.UGVT15292.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:36:00 -0800 Message-ID: <387ACF7F.C21F9C95@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 00:36:47 -0600 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Evan Edmondson CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse Osis and Osis Butterfly kick. . .are these anything? References: <50.50718007.25aa368e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Evan Edmondson wrote: > > What I did I set it from a left clipper, spun (counterclockwise) then delayed > it on my right toe. By left clipper, I will assume that you mean a left foot clipper delay. So, when you set from a left foot clipper delay and spin counterclockwise, this is called "spinning". So, what you are hitting is a "spinning toe stall". You get two ADDs regardless of which toe does the final delay. One for the spin (BOD) and one for the delay (DEL). > Does this count? Everything counts :) another move: > I set it from a left > clipper spun counterclockwise then without doing anything else,(such as a > regular kick or stall or anything) I did a butterfly kick. Again, this is a spinning move. Depending on which side you did the butterfly kick, this could either be a gyro butterfly kick (gyro butterflier) or a spinning butterfly kick (spinning butterflier). These are both 4 ADDs. spin (BOD), dexterity (DEX), flier (BOD), and cross body (XBD). A spinning butterfly kick is: clip > (back) spin [BOD] > op OUT [DEX] > op clip kick [XBD] [BOD] A gyro butterfly kcik is: clip > (back) spin [BOD] > same OUT [DEX] > op clip kick [XBD] [BOD] Congratulations on the new moves and welcome to the wacky world of spins. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 11 18:13:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04215 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:13:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA08735 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 06:39:05 -0800 Received: (qmail 18853 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2000 14:39:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20000111143905.18852.qmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.88.54] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 06:39:05 PST Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 06:39:05 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: [freestyle] pdx whirl To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello again, I bitch at my friend adam for always asking for tips on this e-mail thingy but now I need to ask for one. Can anyone help me with the pdx whirl?? I suck at that move and Ive tried everything. Ive tried trick my legs into thinking they are doind a pdx mirage then I try to slip a clipper in there. Ive tried doing the set kinda high then kinda jump to do the dex. Then I tried camly setting then camly bringing the dex leg around the bag. Ive even tried watching a shit load of ryan mulroney and scott davidson vids on the net. Is it just that I may not be the type of person to do this move??? If so then that sux. I like the pdx whirl. Sombody help me, Jamez From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 11 18:13:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04220 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:13:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03282 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 02:38:27 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FO600I012W0SQ@clem.mscd.edu> for Freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 03:38:25 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 03:38:24 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Millenium Lavers and a move question In-reply-to: <387AD0A6.D81292E6@dallasfootbag.org> To: Derric Scalf Cc: Robert Martin , Freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 11 Jan 2000, Derric Scalf wrote: > So, your scoripon's tail swirling flapper kick will not be hit for a > while. Good luck on any attempts. If you start getting close, get it > on film so the rest of us can see it. Later. Now now! Me and the Disciples were kickin' with the big J man (you know Haysoos) the other day and he hit it nice and clean in the middle of a 35 contact quadless string (no repeats). I had my camera and everything, but his radiance blinded the camera. Bye now, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 11 18:13:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04235 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:13:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03376; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 02:45:39 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FO600J013810A@clem.mscd.edu>; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 03:45:37 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 03:45:37 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] New move? In-reply-to: <003401bf5bf9$c4698fe0$dd4ff5d1@pacbell.net> To: Sam Colclough Cc: Freestyle Mailing List Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 10 Jan 2000, Sam Colclough wrote: > clip > op in [dex] > op out [dex] > (BACK) spin [bod] > SAME CLIP [xbd] > [del] > It's a miraging refraction right? I was practicing ripwalks and I bailed > into an osis but accidentally did a refraction. Thanks! I'm almost 100% sure this move is named "torque screw". I've hit thic move as well, but I often forget to put it in strings unless I'm bail to it from some other botched trick. It's a great move and I don't see many people hit it. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 11 18:13:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04245 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:13:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f200.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.200]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA06225 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 04:35:25 -0800 Received: (qmail 7882 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jan 2000 12:34:53 -0000 Message-ID: <20000111123453.7881.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 165.247.41.95 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 04:34:53 PST X-Originating-IP: [165.247.41.95] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: sam@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New move? Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:34:53 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, Sam Coclough asked about this move: > >clip > op in [dex] > op out [dex] > (BACK) spin [bod] > SAME CLIP [xbd] >[del] > >It's a miraging refraction right? I was practicing ripwalks and I bailed >into an osis but accidentally did a refraction. It can be a miraging refraction, but then the second dex is very questionable. I hit a move with the same notation, which is a shooting set, plant, then osis. Of course, a shooting set makes your first dex questionable unless you do it real clean. So does anybody know what was the first triple dex move to ever be hit? Ken CF Somolinos Bear Feet/NYFA From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 11 18:13:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04255 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:13:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f179.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.179]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA08424 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 06:17:07 -0800 Received: (qmail 16786 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jan 2000 14:16:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20000111141633.16785.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 06:16:33 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: MasteCid@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse Osis and Osis Butterfly kick. . .are these anything? Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:16:33 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Evan Edmondson >What I did I set it from a left clipper, spun (counterclockwise) then >delayed >it on my right toe. & I set it from a left >clipper spun counterclockwise then without doing anything else,(such as a >regular kick or stall or anything) I did a butterfly kick. I believe you are mistaking osis with a spin. If I understand you correctly, those are spinning toe delay and spinning butterflier. Both are nice moves; be sure to school both sides and keep it up. Later, Ian D. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 11 22:28:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04535 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 22:28:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matthew Cross Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.72]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14230 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:47:44 -0800 Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id z.58.58113f31 (5775) for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:47:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <58.58113f31.25acfeda@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:47:06 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Millenium Lavers and a move question To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 147 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 1/11/00 1:37:13 PM, kaplanb@mscd.edu writes: << Now now! Me and the Disciples were kickin' with the big J man (you know Haysoos) the other day and he hit it nice and clean in the middle of a 35 contact quadless string (no repeats). I had my camera and everything, but his radiance blinded the camera. >> I wish I kicked with the son of god ;) I almost laughed when i saw the original letter from this string, but I think at some point, us newbies are tempted to write in something really bogus like "has anyone ever hit a flying spinning pixie atom-smashing butterwhirl?" (and they almost always end with a bogus word ;) ) good luck in hitting that, little guy. And a speedy recovery to Windsen (Peter) Pan and Eric Wulff. sorry about the injuries, guys. Matthew "Clever Nickname" Cross From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 12 05:45:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA05314 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 05:45:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA18421 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:06:57 -0800 Received: from c0014366 from [207.136.45.101] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.423) with smtp for sender: id ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:06:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <002a01bf5c9b$9bb240e0$652d88cf@c0014366> From: "Joe Richter" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] ankle weights Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:23:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Guys, Just a short note from a long-time reader, and old timer. I've been reading the thread on ankle weights with interest. I believe that Ryan has hit the nail on the head - do something slow and steady with the ankle weights, and I believe that they are great. The best thing that I've found for ankle weights -> long walks. I've found them to be great for the strength in my hamstrings (which never was great). Have fun. Regards, Joe Richter jrichter@cyberramp.net From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 12 05:45:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA05304 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 05:45:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f129.hotmail.com [216.32.181.129]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA15349 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:54:09 -0800 Received: (qmail 74233 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jan 2000 22:53:38 -0000 Message-ID: <20000111225338.74232.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.44.107.108 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:53:38 PST X-Originating-IP: [216.44.107.108] From: "Stan Sagalovskiy" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] injuries Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:53:38 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, reading about all these injuries, one can't but wonder if there's a way to ease the stress on the knees and make the injuries less frequent. say, how many times a day/week should one practice without hurting him/herself? what precautions should one take? which moves are worse for the legs and should be tried carefully? i hear of people messing up their backs and stuff trying to hit certain moves.. i absolutely love the sport and would hate to give it up. but i also love my legs =) take it easy everyone. good luck to Windsen Pan and Eric Wulff. hope you're back in the game soon. Stan Sagalovskiy. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 12 05:45:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA05309 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 05:45:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f228.hotmail.com [216.32.181.228]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA16665 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:59:51 -0800 Received: (qmail 72156 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jan 2000 23:59:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20000111235909.72155.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 132.218.5.41 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:59:08 PST X-Originating-IP: [132.218.5.41] From: "Mickey Mayer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] more gimpy Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:59:08 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, Ken asked... >On a completely unrelated note: what was the first triple dex move to ever >be hit? Almost sounds like a trivia question to me... My guess would be a butterfly kick. The Mouse From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 12 16:35:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05939 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:35:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f191.hotmail.com [216.32.181.191]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA08361 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 06:16:26 -0800 Received: (qmail 37493 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jan 2000 14:15:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20000112141552.37492.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.151.225.202 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 06:15:52 PST X-Originating-IP: [205.151.225.202] From: "Danny Cardonne" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] triple dex Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 06:15:52 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: "Mickey Mayer" > >Hey all, > >Ken asked... > >>what was the first triple dex move to ever be hit? > >My guess would be a butterfly kick. It has only 1 dex...where are the two others?? My guess would by paradon swirl or smog Danny Cardonne From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 13 05:55:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA07197 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 05:55:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Ariel Santesteban Received: from squealer.excite.com ([199.172.153.143]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21490 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:48:26 -0800 Received: from knuckles.excite.com ([199.172.148.179]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20000113044621.PGKH4214.ewey.excite.com@knuckles.excite.com> for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:46:21 -0800 Message-ID: <242348.947738781271.JavaMail.imail@knuckles.excite.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:46:21 -0800 (PST) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] triple dex Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 143.166.82.240 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 12 Jan 2000 06:15:52 PST, Danny Cardonne wrote: > > >Ken asked... > > > >>what was the first triple dex move to ever be hit? > > > My guess would by paradon swirl or smog > I believe those are relatively new tricks. My guess would be one of these 3: flurry, blurriest, bedwetter ariel From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 13 23:05:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07815 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 23:05:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.134]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14851 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:21:16 -0800 Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust105.tnt12.chi5.da.uu.net [63.22.166.105]) by penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15571 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:21:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <387E4F8C.ADBA0649@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:19:56 -0600 From: Tim Werner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Spinning Reverse Mirage Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org CLIP > (back) SPIN [BOD] > OP OUT [DEX] > OP TOE [DEL] or CLIP > (back) SPIN [BOD] > SAME OUT [DEX] > OP TOE [DEL] shouldn't the second clip set be a toe set? Tim "the Novice" Werner From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 14 04:44:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA08429 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 04:44:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f214.hotmail.com [216.32.181.214]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA19973 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:49:30 -0800 Received: (qmail 34526 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jan 2000 03:49:00 -0000 Message-ID: <20000114034900.34525.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.181.93.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:49:00 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.181.93.172] From: "Mickey Mayer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] more gimpy Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:49:00 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, >Hi. >Uhmmmm.........a TRIPLE dex ?? Yeah, I know. I realized what Ken's question was after posting. Guess I read it wrong. Mickey "The Mouse" Mayer From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 14 08:59:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA08694 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 08:59:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22674 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 00:19:41 -0800 Received: from dsl (dialup-209.245.73.222.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [209.245.73.222]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28201 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 00:19:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000901bf5e67$ea407b00$de49f5d1@pacbell.net> Reply-To: "Sam Colclough" From: "Sam Colclough" To: "Freestyle Mailing List" Subject: [freestyle] Bad news and good news Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 00:18:16 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey guys. The good news is I just hit my first triple dex move. Pixie barrage? I think. Jobs: toe > same in [dex] > op out [dex] > same out [dex] > op clip [XBD] [DEL] A nice 5 add move no? Bad news: second time I hit it, I landed on my ankle and I heard a really loud pop inside of my body. I instantly collapsed and could not feel anything but a throbbing pain. It was like my ankle wasn't there. So I came back from the hospital just now and nothing is broken. Unfortunatly, I am not that lucky. The pop was one of the tendons in my ankle ripping apart. No more footbag for a while. Windsen, I was going to catch up with you too. Waaaaa! Keep healthy, Sam Colclough http://www.penny-lane.com/sam From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 14 17:24:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09399 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:24:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09246 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 08:11:00 -0800 Received: from bluestem (bluestem.prairienet.org [192.17.3.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08231 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:10:58 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:10:57 -0600 (CST) From: Philip Summers X-Sender: konrad@bluestem To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Bad news and good news In-Reply-To: <000901bf5e67$ea407b00$de49f5d1@pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I hit a symposium-quantum butterfly from my left toe. I tried it on the other side and fell sideways on my ankle! Fortunately my injury wasn't severe and I will be kicking again in a week. I hope everyone else gets better soon! phil From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 14 19:06:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09487 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:06:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f182.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.182]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA10593 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:30:33 -0800 Received: (qmail 89250 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jan 2000 17:30:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20000114173003.89249.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:30:03 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: beesknees13@earthlink.net Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Spinning Reverse Mirage Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:30:03 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org No, that is a minor detail. The clip could just as easily be replaced with "set". The only distinction is in which leg performs the dex. Both are technically spinning rev mirage. My only prob is in definition, though it might have been stated in the orig. post--and some don't agree with wording, the second Job's listed below is actually a gyro rev mirage (though, I am not sure if the ambiguous "set" reference I made would work in this instance--I think it would have to be "clip")... It was probably alluded to, but my feeble memory didn't recall the post... Later, Ian D. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 14 19:06:52 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09492 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:06:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f34.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.34]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA10726 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:40:10 -0800 Received: (qmail 89320 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jan 2000 17:39:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20000114173939.89319.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:39:39 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: sam@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Bad news and good news Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:39:39 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sounds like pixie paradon to me(according to your jobs), a very nice five. Check out the clip of Damon titled "Damon01" on Derric's new video clips, he busts this to start a phat string...Sorry to hear about your ankle... I hope this injury shit isn't too contagious...Stylers dropping like flys...Like the flu epidemic... Later ...Ian... >From: "Sam Colclough" ...first triple dex move. Pixie >barrage? I think. Jobs: >toe > same in [dex] > op out [dex] > same out [dex] > op clip [XBD] [DEL] From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 15 00:27:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA09784 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:27:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA14586 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:23:32 -0800 Received: (qmail 19859 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Jan 2000 22:23:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20000114222328.19858.qmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.88.197] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:23:28 PST Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:23:28 -0800 (PST) From: Jamez Risden Subject: [freestyle] geez! To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, Whats with everyone hurting themselves? Im starting to get scared! And what the hell Is Sam C. doing hitting a pixie double down!!! I was hitting ripwalks before he was hitting legovers! I still cant hit a three dex move!!! Your one helluva shredder..... Anyways I got good news....I broke my record of 6 consec ripwalks and got 7....oh yeah Im also getting very close to hitting a blurriest on both sides!!!!!!!!!!(this has got to be my first 3 dexer) later, Jamez "ShreddinEd" Risden p.s. Daryl Genz your ripwalk record will be mine! hehe From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 15 00:27:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA09789 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:27:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Evan Edmondson Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.69]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15400 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 15:15:23 -0800 Received: from MasteCid@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id z.c1.55011c (6931) for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 18:14:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 18:14:45 EST Subject: [freestyle] Must perform surgery on footbag To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello everyone. First I want to say I'm proud of myself because I'm hitting gyro butterfly kicks. But second I have decided that I must open up the 32-panel facile sandbag and put some more sand in it. The problem is that I have no idea how, and I lost the sheet that came with it from wfa. So will someone please tell me step by step on what to do. Thanks, -Evan "Skykicker" Edmondson From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 16 01:35:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA10997 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 01:35:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Adam Mrosko Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10662 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 12:17:24 -0800 Received: from ZZombie2@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id z.40.71f672 (3702) for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 15:16:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40.71f672.25b22fb3@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 15:16:51 EST Subject: [freestyle] Austin??? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey styler A little while ago some people were talkin about a kid named Austin??? Is he like 8 or soomething??? Does he compete and what does he compete novice intermediate or open. What kind of moves does he hit. To me its pretty amazing how a little kid could shred. Later Adam Mrosko Shreddin Jed From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 16 05:52:37 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA11485 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 05:52:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA15659 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 21:05:07 -0800 Received: (qmail 13360 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Jan 2000 05:05:06 -0000 Message-ID: <20000116050506.13359.qmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.207.204] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 21:05:06 PST Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 21:05:06 -0800 (PST) From: Jamez Risden Subject: [freestyle] hey!?! To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hello does anyone know where the hell i can go to see derrics new vid clips? I was so excited when i first heard about them but i couldent find the frickin things! Anyway i just got back from my friends house and boy where we shreddin sh*t up!!!!!! I ended up hitting a variation of the following: ripwalk>ripwalk>butterfly>spinning clip>ripwalk>butterfly>steppingbutterfly>double legover>butterfly>ripwalk> and more that i cant remember. And after that i started a fat ass run with double over down to ripwalk(ive only been able to pull that off twice)!!! later shreddin ed From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 18 01:49:13 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA13604 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:49:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matthew Cross Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23730 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:07:23 -0800 Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id z.c6.804089 (4386) for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:05:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:05:18 EST Subject: [freestyle] Spare Lavers? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 147 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey All, I'm looking for a used pair of size 8.5 men's Rod Laver shoes for a friend of mine, does anyone have any spares that they don't need any more? Thanks alot Matthew Cross From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 18 19:42:12 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA14554 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:42:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27238 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:57:29 -0800 Received: from bluestem (bluestem.prairienet.org [192.17.3.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15465 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:57:24 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:57:24 -0600 (CST) From: Philip Summers X-Sender: konrad@bluestem To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] swirling osis Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Has anyone tried a swirling full-osis? clip > same back or front swirl > front spin > same clip How bout swirling torque? clip > same front swirl > op in > front spin > op clip These moves seem pretty hard, but possible. -phil From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 18 22:39:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14776 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:39:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31884 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:37:46 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FOJ00301W2R6Y@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:37:39 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:37:39 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] toe to toe To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Skoolin' all by my lonesome the other day I hit symposium smog. toe> same in (no plant)> op in> op out> same toe I hit this three times (not in a row), though one was a bit fluffy! The thing that I really liked about it was that under the current schmadd system it is worth 5 and does not involve paradox, ducking, diving, spinning or x-body. The thing I don't like about it is that I haven't hit it since. I have also been having MAJOR problems with toe-blur. On weak side I can hit it symposium, but can't hit it non-symposium on either side because I just kick it away from the set. I've watched video clip after video clip and I was ready to give up. Until yesterday! Yesterday was my best day of kicking in a long time mostly because my strings are starting to get longer and stronger. BUT, yesterday was a breaking point in toe-blur as well. I still haven't landed it. However, after some meditative visualization with my friend Shay, I set it, got both legs around it and screwed up the catch 3 times. This may seem crazy, but I felt powerful. I have worked on this trick almost every time I've kicked in the last 8 months with not one shred of progress. Now I know it's all a matter of desire, belief, and little visualization. Hope you're all having fun, Brad P.S. To those who are injured, I hope you all heal stronger. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 20 18:39:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17307 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 18:39:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10085 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:40:41 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <20000120173934.CCPA9970.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:39:34 -0800 Message-ID: <38874852.C04F7A94@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:39:30 -0600 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] names of concepts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok. I'll do anything for a study break. Everyone knows that all advanced freestyle moves are a combination of different concepts. The problem is that not all concepts are named. This results in some long crappy names. So, I want the creative ones among you to come up with better names. My purpose - as always - is to provide one name for one move. No two moves should share a name. With that in mind, here we go. 1) "Stepping opposite side" - this refers to ALL moves that start with a stepping set and are then followed by a move component on the opposite side of the body. Examples - drifter, ripwalk, blur, blurriest, stepping opposite side dyno, stepping opposite side symposium reverse whirl, etc. Note that the "stepping opposite side" component only applies to moves that involve the stepping set. Drifter can be done with the stepping set, or it can be done without the stepping set. The same holds true for torque and many other moves. So, the "stepping opposite side" component only applies to "crispy" style moves. Another note - "blurry" is a unique subset of "stepping opposite side". "blurry" is a concept that means "stepping paradox". So, all "blurry" moves are also "stepping opposite side" moves, but many "stepping opposite side" moves are not "blurry". So, with that said, who has a better name for "stepping opposite side"? Email to me privately, or to the list... I don't care. I suck at naming things or else I would try to do it myself :) Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 21 07:20:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18121 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:20:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1303.mail.yahoo.com (web1303.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.153]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA21996 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:14:15 -0800 Received: (qmail 15539 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Jan 2000 01:14:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20000121011415.15538.qmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [152.163.197.73] by web1303.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:14:15 PST Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:14:15 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Windsor Subject: Re: [freestyle] Austin??? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Hey styler > A little while ago some people were talkin about > a kid named Austin??? You would be too if you saw him. His name is Austin Sparks. >Is he like 8 or soomething??? Actually He's 11. > Does he compete and what does he compete novice > intermediate or open. He got 3rd place out of 5 intermediate competitors in the California State Championships (His only tournament so far). >What kind of moves does he > hit. At the California State Championships He was hitting moves like leg over, mirage, clipper, and for his first time, osis. The next time I saw him a month later He hit osis about ten times (some of of clipper) and was hitting new combos Ive never seen him hit before. I talked to him a day ago and he said he hit swirl and pdx. mirage. He is getting better all of the time. He has good consistency and tons of potential. I copied shred videos so he can school new moves. > To me its pretty amazing how a little kid could > shred. It is going to be interesting to see what kind of shredder Austin becomes, he's already awesome. I am going to kick with him on sunday and get some video footage. Anybody who wants a copy only needs to send me a blank tape (or money for one) and postage to mail it. I'll throw in some extra footage of Lon smith and Me (Lon hits double spinning osis on both sides in the same run and all kinds of other stuff like Blurry Whirl > Paradox Torque > Mobius, an awesome 3 fives combo). Eric Windsor O /|\ o \\ _// ` 916-727-7088 From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 21 07:20:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18131 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:20:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matthew Cross Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.71]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21283 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:49:27 -0800 Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id z.b7.4a717c (4245) for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:48:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:48:37 EST Subject: [freestyle] pdox butterfly swirl To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 147 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, Think I just hit it... LEFT CLIP> SAME O-I> OPP X-BODY INSIDE ATW> SAME CLIP..... Sounds like a paradox butterfly swirl to me, anyone know how many adds? Who's goin to Philly Open? Owen Parrish, how about you? By the way, I'm getting a strange "catching" feeling in my achilles heel of my right (strong) leg, but it goes away in a few minutes. second time it's happened today, what should I do? Can I still shred? Thanks, Matthew "Clever Nickname" Cross From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 21 07:21:10 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18141 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:21:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saturn.wwc.edu (IDENT:root@saturn178.wwc.edu [199.236.178.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23915 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 18:34:26 -0800 Received: from nebo.wwc (nebo.wwc [10.82.5.5]) by saturn.wwc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA15704 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 18:34:05 -0800 Received: from WWC-Message_Server by nebo.wwc with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 18:34:05 -0800 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.2.1 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 18:33:40 -0800 From: "Erik Engeberg" To: Subject: [freestyle] lavers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id DAA17676 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, im looking for a pair of size 13 lavers. Does anyone have a pair or know where i can get some? Also, i have a question on a move that i can hit that i havent read a description of or seen anyone else do. It seems like its a cross between two moves. right toe > op in > and here is where i get shady because i do a 1/4 spin clockwise and finish with a same clip except i catch the bag and almost wrap it under my leg. I can do this move also from the left toe except its left toe > same in > bod spin/wrap thing > same clip. It seems like its a lot like a da-da curve. Its kinda wierd. What add move would this be? What about the name? Thanks for the help. Erik From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 21 07:21:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18152 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:21:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f222.hotmail.com [216.32.181.222]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA05609 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:01:36 -0800 Received: (qmail 96780 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jan 2000 01:01:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20000119010105.96779.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.44.107.74 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:01:05 PST X-Originating-IP: [216.44.107.74] From: "Stan Sagalovskiy" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] cheap Lavers Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:01:05 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everyone, I found a store in New York City (active warehouse, on Broadway just a little lower than Prince. half a block from canal jeans) that has the old Lavers (as well as the new ones). They have both green and blue. They are $55, but with the current 40%sale and no tax it comes out to about 33 bucks, which is pretty good. just thought i'd let those that are nearby know. take care. Stan. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 21 07:21:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18162 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:21:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web3405.mail.yahoo.com (web3405.mail.yahoo.com [204.71.203.59]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA16839 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:30:42 -0800 Message-ID: <20000118021254.18167.qmail@web3405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.48.44.3] by web3405.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:12:54 PST Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:12:54 -0800 (PST) From: Owen Parrish Subject: Re: [freestyle] Spare Lavers? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org while we are discussing extra lavers, i would be interested in a size 10 or 11. Total Package From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 21 16:21:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA18385 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:21:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f15.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.15]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA05573 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:26:36 -0800 Received: (qmail 87938 invoked by uid 0); 21 Jan 2000 15:26:06 -0000 Message-ID: <20000121152606.87937.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:26:05 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: engeer@wwc.edu, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] lavers Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 09:26:05 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org 1st and foremost... I understand what I was trying to say below, but it may not have been conveyed in as sensible or understandable terms as I was looking for... If anyone with better descriptions can make more sense...please do so... >From: "Erik Engeberg" Don't know anything about size 13 Lavers, but... >Also, i have a question on a move that i can hit that i havent read a >description of or seen anyone else do. I would say 99 out of 100 times the moves that are being described by people here on the list have been hit by someone. Eric's move... right toe > op in > and here is where i get shady because i do a 1/4 spin clockwise and finish with a same clip except i catch the bag and almost wrap it under my leg. If I am understanding you correctly, it is called toe blender. If I am not, it is called miraging refraction. Kinda iffy here though. You are right about it getting shady there because it can be one of two moves at that point--osis or refraction. If it is toe blender (osis version), the bag is actually wrapped "behind", as opposed to "under", your leg. Now, I suppose this could be described as "under", but I think it has to do with your reference point. In other words, I think you might be looking at the bag thru your legs. This would make it look like an inside delay for an instant before you 'wrap' it under/behind your other leg. This is a refraction. This is different from losing sight of it for an instant as it travels behind you on an inside delay from one side of your body to the other in your 1/4 spin which ends in a clipper also. This "version" (left side..lose sight for instant...right side end in clipper--or vice-versa on sides)is an osis. Please see Steve Goldberg's or Derric Scalf's previous posts that describe these moves. Greg Nelson has a really good tip on osis on footbag.org and there is a video of Eric Wulf hitting it. Unfortunately, refraction has not received the fanfare that osis has and thus has no tips and no demo... I am rusty on my Jobs and I am at work. So, I will leave that to whomever is anal enough to distinguish between refraction and osis... Or, you can see it at the movelist. So, if the move you are hitting utilizes a refraction--miraging refraction.... if it utilizes osis--toe blender. Eric also said... I can do this move also from the left toe except its left toe > same in > bod spin/wrap thing > same clip. This would be "pixie same osis" using the osis version of your description--basically a blenderish type move(assuming that you are not planting after the dex) also. Or, using the refraction version, this would be pixie same refraction--yes, as you said, somewhat da-da-ish. No, they aren't wierd moves; they are good creative moves. All of these moves (whether refraction or osis) are four adds. I, among many others I am sure, hit pixie same osis on a regular basis, and I have hit toe blender and pixie same refraction on many occasions. I have never hit, or even attemped to hit, miraging refraction. Very good moves, just not new... ;) Keep up the good work, and good luck on those hoss-ass shoes you are looking for... Later, Ian D. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 23 04:26:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA20731 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 04:26:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20728 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 04:26:34 -0800 Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11467 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:48:21 -0800 Received: from [206.67.46.8] (brat1.atext.com [206.67.46.8]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15517 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:47:10 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:48:53 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] ... To moderate, or not to moderate ... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Okay, folks. The time has come that I have gotten pretty tired of the thankless job of "freestyle discussion list moderator". And several people have been hammering me recently on my draconian list management policies. I'm not saying I've decided to turn off moderation, but I'm definitely considering it. I'm also considering having someone else do it for a while. I'd like to take a poll and see how people feel about this "service" that I try to provide to the members of this list. PLEASE take a minute to read this message, and then CAST YOUR VOTE on the new footbag.org poll system I built at http://www.footbag.org/poll/conduct/948583074 (you need to join footbag.org if you aren't already a member to participate in member polls). Moderating the discussion takes at least two hours out of my life every week, and usually the result is I have to argue with the people whose posts I reject (which are almost always in clear violation of various list policies, but which sometimes would just create confusion or stir the flames of an e-mail argument that is otherwise unproductive). Brian Kimball has been (also thanklessly, I might add) really helping me a *lot* by administering the list membership -- this means making sure our lists are "clean" (only people who really want to subscribe, because, believe it or not, there are spammers out there who join people against their will all the time). It takes him at least 2 hours a week (I know -- I did it until he took over for me a few months ago), and probably more. So, it may be thankless, but *I* appreciate your work, Brian. As the person who created this list many years ago, I have to say a few things in favor of moderation, though: GOAL: - the goal of the list is to get as many members as possible and keep them, assuming they are interested in advanced freestyle footbag (competition, rules, non-competitive shred, etc.) so that we can spread learning and culture and community around our mutual obsession. RETENTION: - if too much noise travels across the list (which *will* occur if the list is unmoderated), a lot of folks will unsubscribe -- people have a low tolerance for junk (I have witnessed this when a single off-topic message that I have let go through caused 3 people to unsubscribe that same day -- just one example, but I'm sure it would happen more if I weren't moderating). COMMUNITY: - I have long enforced a policy (which is only possible if the list is moderated) whereby each message *must* have the real, full name of the sender, either in the "From:" header, or in the signature, or both. This has been an important element, proven over and over again, of creating real community from this virtual one. As people have met at events, shreds, tournaments, etc., or just been travelling around, they've known each others' names and felt like they were already friends just because of the e-mail list. This is not just a hypothesis; it's happened over and over again for the many years I've been doing this for me, and many of you. Without real names, I think this would be a much less likely eventuality; though it would still happen. (When I met Bryan Fournier at a tournament, if all I knew was his AOL screen name ShReDStEiN, I'd have never put two and two together when his name was announced. But, as it was, I immediately knew who he was. There are literally 40 stories like this for me, personally as a result of this list's requirement that full names are used.) If the list becomes "unmoderated", we risk a lot of this, and much more. But, that said, please chime in. The poll is live and waiting for your vote. Again, it's at http://www.footbag.org/poll/conduct/948583074 Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 23 09:02:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20863 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:02:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (jsishipping.com [207.33.33.34]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16065 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:25:38 -0800 Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA215 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:25:37 -0800 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:25:37 -0800 Message-ID: <01BF641B.62F9DCE0.ewulff@jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] names of concepts Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:25:36 -0800 Organization: JSI Shipping X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derric, It seems to me that you could be creating more work and confusion for yourself and many? >Note that the "stepping opposite side" component only applies to moves >that involve the stepping set. Drifter can be done with the stepping >set, or it can be done without the stepping set. The same holds true >for torque and many other moves. So, the "stepping opposite side" >component only applies to "crispy" style moves. A drifter can not be done with a stepping set. I know what you are saying but a drifter is a miraging set and a stepping set to a same clipper is a different move than a drifter. Some may call it a "crispy drifter"... but it is a unique move from a clipper. As is a "crispy torque". Eric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 23 09:02:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20868 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:02:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f89.hotmail.com [216.32.181.89]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA06251 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:54:22 -0800 Received: (qmail 14180 invoked by uid 0); 21 Jan 2000 15:53:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20000121155352.14179.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 198.150.50.116 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:53:52 PST X-Originating-IP: [198.150.50.116] From: "Tom Labeff" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] names of concepts Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 09:53:52 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tango? I think that would be a good name. Thomas LaBeff From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 23 09:03:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20883 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:03:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA13807 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:40:12 -0800 Received: (qmail 22457 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Jan 2000 20:40:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20000121204009.22456.qmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.191.43] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:40:09 PST Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:40:09 -0800 (PST) From: Jamez Risden Subject: [freestyle] intermediate???? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Im scared, Some while ago, Someone posted the common moves you would see in an intermediate routine, but i totally forgot what they where..... Just yesterday that one dude posted that "Awsome Austin Sparks" got 3rd of 5 intermidate competitors.... He also mentioned that Austin's best moves where legover, mirage, and osis at the time... My queston is....Am I gonna have to compete open?!? Im getting to the point where I can link 4's in my sleep...but ive never had the joy of competing in any tounament....and now I might be stuck getting my ass kicked by a bunch of "aliens" hehe What are the best rountines you would see in the intermediate division????? Later, Jamez Risden From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 23 09:03:10 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20893 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:03:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA09415 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:57:03 -0800 Received: (qmail 1861 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Jan 2000 01:57:00 -0000 Message-ID: <20000123015700.1860.qmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.210.102] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:57:00 PST Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:57:00 -0800 (PST) From: Jamez Risden Subject: [freestyle] eggbeaters?? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, I recently decided to get into the eggbeater stuff and I was just wondering what this move is....ive hit it a couple of times and i think its a pdx eggbeater..the jobs are- clip>same out>op out>same toe.... If this isent a pdx eggbeater then could someone e-mail me and tell me what is....i already searched the moves list and its not on there... thanx Jamez From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 23 19:14:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA21471 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:14:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f89.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.89]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA11330 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 05:54:28 -0800 Received: (qmail 27230 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jan 2000 13:53:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20000123135358.27229.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.69.5 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 05:53:57 PST X-Originating-IP: [141.84.69.5] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] names of concepts Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 05:53:57 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The I-man Eric Wulff wrote: >A drifter can not be done with a stepping set. I know what you are saying >but a drifter is a miraging set and a stepping set to a same clipper is a >different move than a drifter. Some may call it a "crispy drifter"... but >it is a unique move from a clipper. As is a "crispy torque". First correct me if I'm wrong but I beileve "stepping opp" clipper is called clip walk. This is something that has always interested me: where is the deciding point between style and uniqueness? Clip walk's case may be easy, it has a plant that drifter doesn't, just like stepping osis vs. blender, but what about "crispy torque" vs. orriginal style, sometimes explaning the distinction is really fuzzy. Who thinks that dex style/location should determine uniqueness? By this I also mean moves like same butterfly vs. reverse whirl. Steve I know you were going to write up something about plants in determining uniqueness, but I never saw it. Can I find it on your (excelent) site anywhere? -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 24 02:25:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA22106 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:25:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from goldenseal.3rd-coast.com (mta@goldenseal.3rd-coast.com [209.79.28.6]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23904 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 15:59:59 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org (c1008757-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.7.100.246]) by goldenseal.3rd-coast.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:19:00 -0800 Message-ID: <388B9645.52019502@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:01:09 -0600 From: "Derric Scalf" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] new videos! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello everyone. Are you tired of the same old video clips on the internet? Well, go to http://www.dallasfootbag.org We have over 100 new video clips from the 1999 World Footbag Championships held last summer in Chicago. Just click on the video link and then go to the 99 Worlds section. Note that if you have been to this page in the past, you will probably need to refresh your browser to see the updated page. Video clips include runs by: Brian McKenzie, Eric Windsor, Juho Vesa, Ryan Mulroney, Cameron Kennedy, Ethan Klein, Ken Somolinos, Scott Davidson, Chad Devlahovich, Forest Schrodt, Kenny Shults, Sunil Jani, Damon Matthews, Frank Gutowski, Mika Koistinen, Tuan Vu, Daryl Genz, Greg Nelson, Peter Irish, Dave Holton, Jon Schneider, Red Husted, Eli Piltz, Josh Penney, and Rick Reese. If I misspelled anyone's name, please let me know. Other than that, ENJOY! -Derric Dallas Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 24 23:38:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA23221 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:38:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from goldenseal.3rd-coast.com (mta@goldenseal.3rd-coast.com [209.79.28.6]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07737 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:28:53 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org (c1008757-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.7.100.246]) by goldenseal.3rd-coast.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:47:51 -0800 Message-ID: <388CC467.F3049B98@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:30:15 -0600 From: "Derric Scalf" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] new videos Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok. I posted last night about the new videos. If you tried to view them and had problems, please try again http://www.dallasfootbag.org And remember, the refresh / reload button is your friend. I have learned my lesson... sleep before trying to make changes on the web site. Enjoy the videos. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 25 01:01:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA23292 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:01:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from goldenseal.3rd-coast.com (mta@goldenseal.3rd-coast.com [209.79.28.6]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11501 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:40:18 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org (c1008757-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.7.100.246]) by goldenseal.3rd-coast.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:59:20 -0800 Message-ID: <388CE33A.9B3BACE1@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:41:46 -0600 From: "Derric Scalf" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] unique moves Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all. I was wondering about what consitutes a unique move. Is it a plant - in the case of: stepping osis and blender, stepping opposite side osis and torque, stepping clipper and whirl, atomic legover and eggbeater, ripwalk and dada, etc Or is it in the type of dexterity? reverse whirl and butterfly, shooting butterfly and blurry legbeater, nuclear same side butterfly and barfly, etc How about the set? toe set torque and torque, dragon set torque and torque, clipper set spinning osis and toe set spinning osis, etc Are each of these unique? If not, what makes a move unique? I would like to know what is considered unique when judging in the 45 second shred contest and when judging in the world's freestyle contest. Thanks. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 25 03:40:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA23438 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 03:40:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Adam Mrosko Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14651 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:17:40 -0800 Received: from ZZombie2@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id z.bb.9ef182 (4200) for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:17:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:17:03 EST Subject: [freestyle] ADD system To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey stylers I got a question on the add system. Why does the Blizzard, pdx eggbeater, pdx legbeater etc. get a pdx add. I thought that paradox is clip>same in> but obviosly its not because if the moves i named above. Also if the moves i named above get the pdx add why dont a Barfly. Its the same dex. Why do these moves get a paradox add in the first place. My understanding of paradox ummmmm...kind of rules those moves out. Later Adam ShreddinJed Mrosko From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 25 19:12:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24514 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:12:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28799 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 00:38:00 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FOV00K01UMO73@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:37:36 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:37:36 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] pdox butterfly swirl In-reply-to: To: Matthew Cross Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 20 Jan 2000, Matthew Cross wrote: > Hey all, > Think I just hit it... LEFT CLIP> SAME O-I> OPP X-BODY INSIDE ATW> SAME > CLIP..... Sounds like a paradox butterfly swirl to me, anyone know how many > adds? Who's goin to Philly Open? Owen Parrish, how about you? Sorry, there's no paradox in a butterfly or a swirl even if it's set from the opposite side of the body. If you did the first dex in-out then you'd be doing a paradox whirling swirl. It's a cool move by the way and 4 adds as you've done it. A pdx whirling swirl would be 5. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 25 19:12:18 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24519 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:12:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02046 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 00:52:13 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FOV00K01VAWNE@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:52:08 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:52:08 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] intermediate???? In-reply-to: <20000121204009.22456.qmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> To: James Risden Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 21 Jan 2000, Jamez Risden wrote: > My queston is....Am I gonna have to compete open?!? > Im getting to the point where I can link 4's in my > sleep...but ive never had the joy of competing in any > tounament....and now I might be stuck getting my ass > kicked by a bunch of "aliens" hehe Go ahead and compete intermediate for at least one tournament. I too could link fours in my sleep last summer, but you have to take into account what is involved in a routine. You need to choreograph it to music, put in combos you may not normally do it everyday shred to fill the card, and above all take into account the nervousness factor. Believe me, when you put together a routine it will be a totally different experience than just kicking it around. And for me it's at least as great a feeling. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 25 20:12:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24607 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:12:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from smtp1.ncal.verio.com (smtp1.ncal.verio.com [207.20.246.161]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27516 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:26:06 -0800 Received: from JON ([207.20.242.81]) by smtp1.ncal.verio.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA16243 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:26:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000501bf676a$e1c45d00$0200a8c0@JON> From: "Jon Azen" To: "freestyle" Subject: [freestyle] Strange use of a footbag Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:32:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >To all JPL Employees and Contractors, > >Please take some time to review the wonderfully displayed results of the >1999 Section 352 Invention Challenge, subtitled the Footbag Toss for >Accuracy. The contest objective was to create a device that would >accurately propel a footbag exactly five meters. Chris Wrigley missed the >target by only 12.1 cm, beating out 14 other competitors!! Enjoy the web >site at: http://eis.jpl.nasa.gov/technology/education/inv_challenge/overview.html - Jon From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 25 20:46:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24651 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:46:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24648 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:46:13 -0800 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28573 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:07:51 -0800 Received: from [206.67.46.8] (brat1.atext.com [206.67.46.8]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20255 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:07:16 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000501bf676a$e1c45d00$0200a8c0@JON> References: <000501bf676a$e1c45d00$0200a8c0@JON> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:08:24 -0800 To: "freestyle" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Strange use of a footbag Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:32 AM -0800 1/25/00, Jon Azen wrote: >http://eis.jpl.nasa.gov/technology/education/inv_challenge/overview.html Yeah, believe it or not, this is quite common. I think it may something to do with me, actually. :-) Back about 10 years ago at Stanford, we had a mechanical engineering graduate student in our club. He would kick with us pretty regularly at our regular Tuesday session (which we still have -- 12 years and counting!). Anyway, he was a TA for a project course, and as the project, he made the students build footbagging machines -- they had to be able to "kick" the footbag continually, and also have a "pass" feature. It was rad. They would face the machines towards each other and try to get them to play. :-) They just used basic Newtonian physics principles. He told me he was going to give me the videotape but he never did. I saw him once many years later but forgot all about it until now. :-) I heard that they did a similar project many times over the years after that. I bet it made its way into the larger mechanical engineering community as a result. You know, Stanford being the best school in the world and all. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 25 22:28:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA24762 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:28:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31338 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:46:12 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FOW00401V4X8X@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:46:09 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:46:09 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] since no on else is gloating and combos To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have had some pretty successful sessions recently. I have been able to hit both side atom-smashers for a long time, but never link them back to back. The other day I hit them back to back twice. I also hit barroque for the first time ever (first two times actually). The first one was just on a whim and I was so amazed I just caught it. I immediately tried it again and hit it to start off a decent length string that was mere inches away from ending in a blurry torque (hey I was going full blast so why not). Some challenging combos I've never hit but desperately want to do and see (some day anyway): Pdx Legbeater/blurry drifter Vortex/Ripped Warrior 2 or more consecutive barroques blurrier/blurrage I've never seen back to back syposium toe blurs witchdoctor/symposium toe blur this is a single trick... Blurroque Now go make my dreams a reality you fine footbaggers you. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 26 02:43:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA24889 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 02:43:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web3404.mail.yahoo.com (web3404.mail.yahoo.com [204.71.203.58]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA01508 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:30:34 -0800 Message-ID: <20000125232805.28036.qmail@web3404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.48.44.3] by web3404.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:28:05 PST Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:28:05 -0800 (PST) From: Owen Parrish Subject: [freestyle] I found it!!! To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Everyone can relax. After a month or two of no footbag, i found it. It was behind a curtain. I hope this isn't "moderated." Total Package From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 26 03:35:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA24940 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 03:35:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f299.hotmail.com [216.32.180.153]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA06604 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:51:51 -0800 Received: (qmail 56618 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jan 2000 02:51:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20000126025120.56617.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.44.107.49 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:51:20 PST X-Originating-IP: [216.44.107.49] From: "Stan Sagalovskiy" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] first infinity!! Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:51:20 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all! i hit my first back to back butterflies just now! yay! just a word to all those beginners that are having trouble with the clipper.. if you think you're getting nowhere after weeks and weeks of trying, don't worry. you're getting better with every day. it's getting easier and easier to get into the right position. your support leg bends more and is more stable allowing for greater control. it's there, don't worry, read the helpful comments on the clipper on footbag.org. the exercise with the paperback helps.. i recommend just putting the bag on your foot in the clipper position and lifting it 20, 30, 40 times.. both legs. do this while waiting ANYWHERE. when skooling it at home, watch the timing carefully -- you might be lowering your leg just a split second early and chucking it back up too soon. try to actually delay the bag for a few seconds. another problem that i noticed with myself is that i can delay the bag, but the motion of my leg to throw the bag up was incorrect -- i was just moving shin (just everything below the knee) and keeping my knee steady. this resulted in my foot doing a small circular arc and sending the bag flying in the wrong direction (either far across my body, or sometimes it just slid off). try to lift your knee as well. watch the eric wulff clip for the clipper on footbag.org. (so you won't have that perfect form at first, but try to see the movement of the leg) that's it for my advice. keep'on'kickin Stan From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 26 07:40:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA25353 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:40:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (jsishipping.com [207.33.33.34]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09464 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:58:39 -0800 Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA220 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:58:38 -0800 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:58:44 -0800 Message-ID: <01BF6776.F7B1F4E0.ewulff@jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: Re: [freestyle] unique moves Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:58:43 -0800 Organization: JSI Shipping X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derric Scalf... >I was wondering about what constitutes a unique move. General rule of thumb is that a set does not make any move unique. This is a general rule. GENERAL.... GENERAL.... GENERAL... I don't care what anything says it is general... In other words, when in doubt use the rule. When not in doubt... don't create confusion.. >Is it a plant - in the case of: >stepping osis and blender >ripwalk and dada, etc >nuclear same side butterfly and barfly, etc Derric, c'mon?!... are you just tryin to get me to post in a negative way? Is this a serious question? You are asking whether 2 different moves are unique. TWO DIFFERENT MOVES!?!?! A stepping osis is not a blender and a ripwalk is not a dada and a nuclear same butterfly is not a barfly. Is there really confusion here? >Are each of these unique? If not, what makes a move unique? I would >like to know what is considered unique when judging in the 45 second >shred contest and when judging in the world's freestyle contest. The 45 second shred is left up to the judges. As it should be. Experienced freestylers know that components with plants are completely different than components which happen in a similar way(i.e. dex direction) without plants. A flurry is certainly unique from a haze. Now... stop this craziness this very instant young man!... :) Eric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 26 07:47:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA25363 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:47:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25360 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:47:50 -0800 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12029 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:09:26 -0800 Received: from [206.67.46.8] (brat1.atext.com [206.67.46.8]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA28809 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:08:55 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BF6776.F7B1F4E0.ewulff@jsishipping.com> References: <01BF6776.F7B1F4E0.ewulff@jsishipping.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:10:07 -0800 To: "'freestyle'" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] unique moves Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > >I was wondering about what constitutes a unique move. Derric, you're driving driving me batty. :-) I thought we had this discussion only two months ago. Maybe this is just a way to get me to post my long-awaited (written but never sent) treatise on plants? The rule of thumb is: Tricks are unique if: (1) they involve unique add categories OR (2) they involve the same add categories but they are otherwise unique OR (3) rinse, lather, repeat Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 26 09:52:42 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA25421 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:52:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from squealer.excite.com ([199.172.153.143]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21674 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:05:14 -0800 Received: from slippery ([199.172.153.106]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20000126090404.ZBTF8024.fortune.excite.com@slippery> for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:04:04 -0800 Message-ID: <16945626.948877444690.JavaMail.imail@slippery> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:04:04 -0800 (PST) From: Allan Haggett Reply-To: To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] ADD system Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 216.86.103.21 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 Adam Mrosko Wrote: > ...... > Why do these moves get a paradox add in the first place. My > understanding of paradox ummmmm...kind of rules those moves out. Join the club:) Dude, how long have you been reading this list? Were you just hoping that someone had finally figured out 'the' way to put the definition of paradox into words, but had yet to tell everyone else about it? hehehe.... Sorry, I'm not trying come down on ya for asking or anything,(Who do I think I am?) I just get frustrated when every couple of weeks or so, someone asks about paradox and the ADD system and why this move or that doesn't fit:) Every time I read how the question is posed, I think I can answer; click 'compose mail' and start to type..... but after ten times of typing out a whole paragraph and then deleting it because it "doesn't fit", I give up and end up not sending anything at all. I've probably spent hours doing it. I'm sure I am not alone out of the other members on this list. Beats TV!! I've got this dictionary in front of me.... paradox(par'e-doks) n. 1. A statement seemingly absurd or contradictory, yet in fact true. After trying to apply that to footbag since Jubal tried to explain it to me almost six years ago now..... after having(literally folks... I've sacrificed *many* things so I that I could just play) lived, breathed, slept and ate footbag for the past five years in the near exclusion of this small city that I live in, after putting my foot in my mouth several times on this very list about paradox(and other things:))and after tweaking my neck four times and counting now trying to hit paradox moves..... All I know is that I have come to accept the concept of paradox in footbag as the little white dot in the black of a ying-yang(or vice versa) I'm beginning to think that maybe it can't be defined; That maybe someone will always come up with some move that doesn't fit a 'new' definition of paradox and puts the whole question into endless debate once again. I think its the nature of the beast. I kinda like it that way. Besides, anyone who does a move that is paradox just knows that it just is. Peace. d|o) Allan Haggett Victoria, BC From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 26 09:58:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA25441 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:58:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA27428 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:18:50 -0800 Received: from [206.67.46.8] (brat1.atext.com [206.67.46.8]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA12176; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:18:16 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:19:18 -0800 To: Adam Mrosko From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] ADD system Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 8:17 PM -0500 1/24/00, Adam Mrosko wrote: >Why does the Blizzard, pdx eggbeater, pdx legbeater etc. get a pdx add. Because they're all paradox. And I think you meant "do" not "does" since there were three things in your list (not one thing that you were expressing three different ways). >I thought that paradox is clip>same in> Where did you get that idea? Have you not read my tutorial on paradox? Paradox is an add we give to a class of moves (but not all moves) that are more difficult because of the set, basically. It's called "paradox" since we don't normally consider the set to matter in difficulty. But the old system was broken and "paradox" was one way we tried to put tape over it to keep it working for certain moves. It's outlived its usefulness, as has the entire add system, but if you're asking about the existing antiquated system, please read my tutorial. It's on the freestyle home page. >Also if the moves i named above get the pdx add why dont a Barfly. Because Barfly is not a paradox move. You can't have paradox butterfly. Barfly is a double butterfly. So it's not possible to do it paradox. You can't just look at the jobs notation to figure out if something is paradox. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 26 18:44:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA25972 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:44:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f45.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.45]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA12530 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 03:52:38 -0800 Received: (qmail 11052 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jan 2000 11:52:07 -0000 Message-ID: <20000126115207.11051.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.71 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 03:52:07 PST X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.71] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Merlin Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 03:52:07 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Can anyone give me some advise on doing (for lack of a better descriptive term) a "Merlin" style toe blur. I can do regular toe blurs, but when trying to do it all in the air I never seem to get in that second dex. What's the secret to that second miraje? What did any of you do to learn it? -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 26 18:45:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA25977 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:45:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f171.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.171]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA19515 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:10:42 -0800 Received: (qmail 11238 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jan 2000 15:10:11 -0000 Message-ID: <20000126151011.11237.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:10:10 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] unique moves Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:10:10 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Eric Wulff & Derric Scalf... D... > >I was wondering about what constitutes a unique move. E... >General rule of thumb is that a set does not make any move unique. This is >a general rule. > >In other words, when in doubt use the rule. When not in doubt... don't >create confusion.. Me... For clarification, please... So, down double-down, double-down, paradon, and barfly are ALL the same move(well, not same move, but none are unique from one another)right? So, does a pixie and fairy set have to have a plant? Because, I have heard toe>same in[dex]>op clip [xbd][del] called a pixie clipper, even as I just wrote it(without the plant). Though, at a glance, it really looks more like a whirl set from the same toe as the dexing leg. You can see the same arguement with down-double and fairy sets (fairy butterfly vs. down-double). Ahh, the ever-loved move list makes no reference about plants and fairy and pixie... I have opinions. But, do they really matter? No, not really. I just like to see good answers from the 'higher-ups' in our community. I know Eric and Steve have probably thought about footbag more minutes than I have breathed air, so why not pick their brain? Right? *Crowd boos in displeasure...* Continuing... E... >A stepping osis is not a blender and a ripwalk is not a dada and a nuclear >same butterfly is not a barfly. Is there really confusion here? Me... None at all, I totally agree with you Eric. But, I have on many, many, many occasions heard experienced freestylers call stepping op osis a torque. For instance I heard a very experienced styler say at Texas State, "Yeah, looh at Derric busting all those crazy torques." Or something to that effect. We all know that Derric (as with myself also) tends to hit step op osis, NOT bust a orig. recipe torque--I really don't like the prefix "orig. recipe" (just thought I would share that). I think there are two moves here--not orig. and e. crispy torque, but step op osis and torque--period. Eric, I THINK (I could be wrong) you agree that these are two separate moves, but I don't think most people have slipped into that line of thought. I think this is where Derric's argument stems from. Though, I could be mistaken, and Derric is just a whack styler with absolutely no understanding of the system... :), just kidding D... We love ya! Me and my thoughts? I don't really care, but I have my opinions. I really just like to kick. And, I will call a move what I want... Ya don't like what I call it? Then kiss my arse... :) E... > Experienced freestylers know that components with plants are completely >different than components which happen in a similar way(i.e. dex direction) >without plants. Me... Once again, by this... pixie clipper w/o plant is not unique from whirl and toe whirl, but it is unique from pixie clipper w/plant. Is this the common law? If so, I will follow it, but it doesn't make a damn bit of sense according to nomenclature. E... >Now... stop this craziness this very instant young man!... :) Me... Aw, come on. I hope it is just getting started. ;) Later, Ian D. Style right, style tonite... From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 26 18:44:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA25967 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:44:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Forest Schrodt Received: from ego.mind.net (IDENT:mail@ego.mind.net [206.99.66.9]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA30049 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:25:09 -0800 Received: from 206.151.159.229 (ip295.mind.net [206.151.159.229]) by ego.mind.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA03862 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:25:02 -0800 Message-ID: <388E4D08.2909@mind.net> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:25:30 +0000 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] dancin and kickin! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everyone, I am going to be doing a performance at a Rave party up in Portland, Oregon coming up this Febuary 11. They are going to have a specially lit up area for me and others to freestyle and juggle. Let me know if you can go, I might(not certain yet) be able to get freestylers in for free. The info line for the event is (503)846-1988. Please e-mail me directly if you are interested. Peace, Forest From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 26 19:08:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26003 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:08:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26000 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:08:56 -0800 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24703 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:30:30 -0800 Received: from [206.67.46.8] (brat1.atext.com [206.67.46.8]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01295 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:29:59 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:31:10 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Poll results.. still taking votes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Freestylers, Your votes are still requested on the moderation poll -- should this list continue to be moderated? The current (live) results are now posted at http://www.footbag.org/freestyle/ (the home page for this list). Please vote by Sunday if possible. I don't feel we have a quorum quite yet -- only 40 votes so far, out of hundreds of members of the list. This decision will affect all of you, so please chime in! Voting is easy -- just go to http://www.footbag.org/freestyle/ and click the link "cast your vote now" at the bottom of the poll. It should be pretty obvious. Thanks. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 26 19:42:00 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26043 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:42:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from goldenseal.3rd-coast.com (mta@goldenseal.3rd-coast.com [209.79.28.6]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25501 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:01:38 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org (c1008757-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.7.100.246]) by goldenseal.3rd-coast.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:20:46 -0800 Message-ID: <388F4509.D38C1E7E@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:03:37 -0600 From: "Derric Scalf" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: "'freestyle'" Subject: Re: [freestyle] unique moves References: <01BF6776.F7B1F4E0.ewulff@jsishipping.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I wrote: > >Is it a plant [that makes moves unique] - in the case of: > >stepping osis and blender > >ripwalk and dada, etc > Eric Wulff wrote: > > You are asking whether 2 different moves are unique. > A stepping osis is not a blender and a ripwalk is not a dada and a nuclear > same butterfly is not a barfly. Is there really confusion here? Confusion, not really. I agree that the moves listed above are unique. These moves were listed in the plant category to show that occasionally, the plant does make two different moves unique. But, what about the other examples? stepping opposite side osis and torque, stepping clipper and whirl, atomic legover and eggbeater, And then you have the case of Joe Marshall's (did I spell that right?) paradox mirage. He plants his foot before doing the dex. I wonder if that makes his paradox mirage unique from the non-planting kind? Now, how about the type-of-dexterity case: reverse whirl and butterfly, shooting butterfly and blurry legbeater, nuclear same side butterfly and barfly, etc. I see each of these as unique, but when you start looking at dyno, corkscrew and refraction, things all blur together. Frank's dasien (pixie legbeater) isn't really a pixie legbeater. He does the first two dexes in the set - so it is like a toe shooting butterfly. So, I'm guessing that pixie legbeater and dasein would be counted as unique. And, what *should* be the easiest question to answer - how about the set? toe set torque and torque, dragon set torque and torque, clipper set spinning osis and toe set spinning osis, etc. I would really like to hear from Scott - since he is the head of the freestyle committee on IFAB (or is it IFC now?). I have heard in past judging clinics that all of these moves are the same - the set only matters if it makes the move paradox. Personally, a toe set torque and a clipper set torque feel very different, so I would count them as unique. Since different people judge differently, I would like to know who would consider these unique or the same. There is no right or wrong answer, it is all opinion. It would be nice if there was a right and a wrong answer, but currently, things remain undefined. So, if we get the majority of the list to agree on something, maybe we can make some definitions and eliminate confusion. > Now... stop this craziness this very instant young man!... :) oops. too late :) -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 26 19:56:00 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26064 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:56:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26061 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:55:59 -0800 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26288 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:17:31 -0800 Received: from [206.67.46.8] (brat1.atext.com [206.67.46.8]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29829 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:16:56 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <388F4509.D38C1E7E@dallasfootbag.org> References: <01BF6776.F7B1F4E0.ewulff@jsishipping.com> <388F4509.D38C1E7E@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:18:03 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] unique moves Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:03 PM -0600 1/26/00, Derric Scalf wrote: >I would really like to hear from Scott - since he is the head of the >freestyle committee on IFAB (or is it IFC now?). It's IFC, and I'm still the co-chairman of the whole thing, so my opinion maybe possibly should count just a tiny bit. :-) And I'm the man who has run the judging clinic at Worlds for the last infinite number of years. >I have heard in past >judging clinics that all of these moves are the same - the set only >matters if it makes the move paradox. You misunderstood the clinic. The moves are definitely the same from a difficulty and add-category standpoint, but uniqueness is not so trivial to define. >Personally, a toe set torque and >a clipper set torque feel very different, so I would count them as >unique. This is your personal opinion. I think this is a pretty clear one that doesn't fit any of the uniqueness definitions that I gave in my very long message on this subject several months ago. >It would be nice if there was a right and a wrong >answer, but currently, things remain undefined. I think you are just confusing people. I clearly defined a bunch of this stuff for you a couple of months ago. The only thing left was for me to articulate a definition of uniquification of moves based on footwork (plants). But you are acting as if whatever I wrote was not valid. If not, why didn't you argue with me about it? I assume if I give rules of thumb on the list and nobody complains, that people buy them. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 26 21:35:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26155 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:35:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29947 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:39:51 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FOY00A01MQB2G@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:39:47 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:39:47 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Merlin In-reply-to: <20000126115207.11051.qmail@hotmail.com> To: Andrew McCargar Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 26 Jan 2000, Andrew McCargar wrote: > Can anyone give me some advise on doing (for lack of a better descriptive > term) a "Merlin" style toe blur. I can do regular toe blurs, but when trying > to do it all in the air I never seem to get in that second dex. What's the > secret to that second miraje? What did any of you do to learn it? I 'm assuming you're talking about a symposium toe blur. I can't give any great advice, but I can hit the trick. I set right toe and a little bit to my left side so the first mirage gest done and looks more or less like a regular style mirage, but the second dex I do with my ankle instead of my upper leg. My second dex is very quick and then my left foot is right there to catch it. I doubt any of this helps, but I tried. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 27 07:50:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA26831 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:50:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f167.hotmail.com [216.32.181.167]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA02791 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:49:20 -0800 Received: (qmail 46894 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jan 2000 23:48:48 -0000 Message-ID: <20000126234848.46893.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 193.75.12.22 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:48:48 PST X-Originating-IP: [193.75.12.22] From: "Billy Wilson" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] check this out Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:48:48 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Just want all of you to know that I just completed a double whammy toe scissor, with a converted axe hop to a fuzzy burger flip while doing an amazing helicopter knee grab... all while blind folded. I think that is about 12 adds... am I wrong? Yeah, well, no... actualy I just wanted to say that I appreciate all your guys' input and you have given a newbie like me somethin to think about... keep up the good work and thanks for takin it easy on the lil' guys. blessings from the land of one add, two add and maybe a three add here and there, billy wilson From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 27 22:56:58 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA27555 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:56:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ux4.isu.edu (mta@ux4.isu.edu [134.50.250.16]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02427 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:44:57 -0800 Received: from isu.edu ([134.50.103.12]) by ux4.isu.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA240 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:45:55 -0700 Message-ID: <3890AE79.1636A36A@isu.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:45:46 -0700 From: Bob Green X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freestyle@footbag.org" Subject: [freestyle] Idaho Footbag Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Freestylers! New Club in Idaho!!: As of Monday night Idaho State University (in Pocatello) has a footbag club. The constitution was passed by student senate, and the club is now an official student organization. Free Publicity!!: Tuesday night I was kicking at the school gym, and this guy came in with a video recorder. He asked permission to record me kicking, and upon talking to him I found out that he is with some local cable access channel. I told him about the club, and he asked for my name and number so he can meet up with me in a week or so to do a story on the club. Gotta love free publicity! (even though essentially no one watches cable access) Possible Tournament??: The club will not be available for supplemental funding until next school year, but I am still thinking about trying to raise money to put on a tournament this year. As a result, there will probably not be as much prize money available this year as might be available next year....but I will do what I can. So with that in mind, is there a particular time any of you might be able to make it to Pocatello for a freestyle (and consecutives???) tournament this year? I can probably find a place to stay for most out of towners. I'm thinking it would be best to start the tournament on a Friday (or have a shred contest) while a lot of people are on campus for school. It could then run into Saturday and Sunday if necessary. School ends in the middle of May and most students leave town after that, so I would prefer to hold a tournament before then. Dead weak (no labs, new course material, etc.) at ISU is April 30 - May 6, so the weekend of April 28-30 might be good in terms of people having time to come watch and/or participate. I have essentially no experience running a tournament, so any advice would be greatly appreciated. By next year, I hope to be able to organize a full blown tournament with freestyle, net, consecutives, and golf. So if any of you who can make it this year also play net, please consider bringing a net set for demonstration purposes. Thanks for your consideration and input, Bob From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 27 22:57:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA27560 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:57:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03622 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:24:45 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FP000901JH3LY@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:24:39 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:24:39 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] rewind combos To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just love thinking of rewind combos and was wondering if anyone's hit these in whatever order. pdx atom-smasher/atomic drifter (I know you could Eli if you haven't already) Scorpion tail/ barroque spinning pdx mirage/ flux spinning pdx illusion (rev. mirage)/ toe set torque pixie-paradon/ flurry What are some cool combos you've been hitting, rewind or not? Sooner, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 28 09:49:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA28242 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:49:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f21.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.21]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA17950 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:14:23 -0800 Received: (qmail 14664 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jan 2000 06:13:51 -0000 Message-ID: <20000128061351.14662.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.183.120 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:13:51 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.183.120] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Pixie Drifter Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 01:13:51 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi stylers, I've just recently started hitting and sealing pixie drifter, which is a really cool move. I know Mulroney hits this on Sultans and on a sweet clip on the Dallas site (nice work Derric), and I was wondering if it has a name? If it doesn't I'd like to propose "Smoke," following in the tradition of pixie moves like Smear, Smudge, and Smog. If Mulroney or somebody else who hits it already named it something else, I respect that. If not, I think "Smoke" works well. Anybody particularly like or dislike it? Let me know. Peace, Ken CF Somolinos Bear Feet/NYFA From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 28 09:49:17 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA28251 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:49:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (jsishipping.com [207.33.33.34]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18935 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:11:07 -0800 Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA220 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:11:06 -0800 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:11:05 -0800 Message-ID: <01BF691B.C9583D60.ewulff@jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: Re: [freestyle] unique moves Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:11:03 -0800 Organization: JSI Shipping X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Me... >For clarification, please... So, down double-down, double-down, paradon, >and barfly are ALL the same move(well, not same move, but none are unique >from one another)right? Yes, according to hard line world freestyle routine competition rules. Act on them how you will. >So, does a pixie and fairy set have to have a plant? Genrally I'd say yes. >Because, I have heard toe>same in[dex]>op clip [xbd][del] called a pixie >clipper, even as I just wrote it(without the plant). Though, at a glance, it really >looks more like a whirl set from the same toe as the dexing leg. Of course, you are exactly right. I don't know where you heard it, but this is a whirl. >You can see the same argument with down-double and fairy sets (fairy >butterfly vs. down-double). You're starting to sound like Derric here... yikes! Are you talking about a double over down or a down double down? I assume double over down since you're comparing it to fairy sets. Anyway, I see no argument here. I don't care what you want to call the move. If it has a plant it is a unique move to the same move with a plant. Now, before all you maniacs jump on that one, use your head. If you are planting for balance or adjustment while not executing a component then it is not going to matter. A plant in a paradox mirage does not matter. A plant between double dexes clearly changes a moves elements. >Eric, I THINK (I could be wrong) you agree that these are two separate >moves,(torque & stepping osis) definitely... >but I don't think most people have slipped into that line of thought. I think this >is where Derric's argument stems from. could very well be the case >And, I will call a move what I want... Ya don't like what >I call it? Then kiss my arse... :) Now... That's the essence of footbag! I hit it, this is what it is, Kiss my ass if you don't think so!... :) ... >Once again, by this... pixie clipper w/o plant is not unique from whirl and >toe whirl, but it is unique from pixie clipper w/plant. Of course! >Is this the common I don't know. According to much of this list, which is an insanely tiny tiny representation of the freestyle brains out there, it doesn't seem to be. It should be. >If so, I will follow it, but it doesn't make a damn bit of sense >according to nomenclature. You will follow it?.. what happened to "Kiss My Arse?!"... :) and.. "nomenclature"... oh here we go! Who cares? This is freestyle first and science second always. If you can't explain it yet, don't follow rules that don't make style sense until you can explain it. Go with the feel until the science for that feel can be figured out... which may be never. >Aw, come on. I hope it is just getting started. ;) This isn't really that fun. It's just a damn distraction... :) I smile because it's true Eric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 28 17:33:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28708 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:33:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f120.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.120]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA16201 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 05:53:09 -0800 Received: (qmail 18365 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jan 2000 13:52:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20000128135239.18364.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 05:52:38 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] unique moves Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:52:38 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Eric Wulff > >So, does a pixie and fairy set have to have a plant? >Genrally I'd say yes. Me... Really, this is all I needed to hear/know. This makes the line of ambiguity disappear in my line of questioning. Eric... >You will follow it?.. what happened to "Kiss My Arse?!"... :) Me... The "Kiss my arse!" stems from the fact that if I am shredding I will hit whatever I please when I please...regardless of names, set differences, etc. The "I will follow it." comes from my viewpoint that whichever moves of this nature are unique and named different will be taken into account when describing them to others and/or putting a routine together. > >Aw, come on. I hope it is just getting started. ;) >This isn't really that fun. It's just a damn distraction... :) >I smile because it's true Your jovial attitude, wide-based knowledge, and quick wit make it fun Eric. :) I smile, also, because it is true. :) Seriously, of current "top-level" players, you are one of the very few who take the time to explain things to the list. That means a great deal to a lot more people than you probably realize. I, and I am sure many others, really appreciate that. Distraction from what? The HARD-CORE debates that are currently raging... hehe. Just kidding. I realize it sounds like you are getting asked stupid questions, but please keep in mind that, as I said before, this has probably came up in your mind before, otherwise you would not have such adament ideas concerning it. Some other people just want to know what is right and what is wrong, and for now, this is the place to go look for an answer... Even if there is no right or wrong answer when it comes to freestyle in this stylistic context. EXCEPT, of course, that plants make things different and pixie/fairy sets have them... point taken and learned. Thank you. Later Ian D. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 28 17:36:37 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28718 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:36:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.119]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16646 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 06:15:34 -0800 Received: from storefull-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.241]) by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id A58BF1B02; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 06:15:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by storefull-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id GAA25266; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 06:15:33 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUAvAdGSsdieDc3KFp8Y/ThLY1KbVsCFQCxgSv+jknzunh2LulSTJHM6Lo5Ig== From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:15:33 -0500 (EST) To: ewulff@jsishipping.com (Eric Wulff) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org ('freestyle') Subject: Re: [freestyle] unique moves Message-ID: <23585-3891A485-3595@storefull-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Eric Wulff 's message of Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:11:03 -0800 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey shredheads! Ironman wrote: >If it has a plant it is a unique move to the >same move with a plant. Now, before Am I a maniac ? You did you mean for ONE of those to be with NO PLANT, right? : )) Take cae all, GF From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 28 17:36:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28728 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:36:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web803.mail.yahoo.com (web803.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.63]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA18799 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:58:39 -0800 Received: (qmail 6234 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jan 2000 15:58:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20000128155839.6233.qmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.88.98] by web803.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:58:39 PST Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:58:39 -0800 (PST) From: Jamez Risden Subject: [freestyle] Pixie Drifter To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ken S. >If it doesn't I'd like to propose "Smoke," following >in the tradition >of >pixie moves like Smear, Smudge, and Smog. Hey man, I dont think the name "Smog" came from "Smear and Smudge", It most likely came from "Fog" Now even though my opinion means next to nothing and I cant hit a single one of these moves YET, I think the name "Smoke" should be slapped on an Atomic DLO... later, ShreddinED From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 28 17:36:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28738 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:36:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA18920 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:04:48 -0800 Received: (qmail 22085 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jan 2000 16:02:41 -0000 Message-ID: <20000128160241.22084.qmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.88.98] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:02:41 PST Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:02:41 -0800 (PST) From: Jamez Risden Subject: [freestyle] cool combos To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, Some cool combos ive been hitting,(for me at least) are: step butterfly>ripwalk>step butterfly ripwalk>blur pixie butterfly>what ever i feel like doing(usually osis>butterfly> spinning somthing or another damn! I got to get off my puter....my dad wants on Ill write again later, ShreddinED From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 28 17:36:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28748 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:36:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f191.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.191]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA20095 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:46:57 -0800 Received: (qmail 26295 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jan 2000 16:46:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20000128164624.26294.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.107 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:46:24 PST X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.107] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Brain teaser Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:46:24 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I've got a two part question for everyone. Has anyone seen/done the following moves: "Conlon"(named after the lovely and talented Sam Conlon) a double pick up caught in a frigidosis i.e. toe>opp out>same out>same frigidosis I've hit this but never sealed it. If anyone wants to try though it seems like a good way to encourage premature arthritic. "ebb" a clipper set double leg over caught in a frigidosis clip>opp in>opp out>same frigidosis Visually it looks a bit like a "paused" stepping opp dino. Which leads to my second question: One of my favorite combos is ebb to dino, except is it really a dino? You tell me, from left frigidosis circle the bag back to front, back spin and end up on left foot clipper. frigidosis>same back to front> same osis Visually it looks a lot like if you had set a dino from a right foot clipper. So is this in fact a dino, or a gyro reverse swirl, or a reverse swirl, or other? -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 28 18:22:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28822 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 18:22:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f214.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.214]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA21601 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:40:23 -0800 Received: (qmail 75950 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jan 2000 17:39:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20000128173952.75949.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.183.120 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:39:52 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.183.120] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pixie Drifter Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:39:52 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, Jamez Rizden wrote: > >Hey man, I dont think the name "Smog" came from "Smear >and Smudge", It most likely came from "Fog" Actually, "smog" came from SMear and fOG. I thought that was kind of obvious, the SM part coming from the pixie set, and the Fog like part coming from the DLO. That said, I think "Smoke" fits in nicely with the other pixie moves that start with SM. Is there another accepted name for the move though? Ken CF Somolinos From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 28 19:24:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA28870 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:24:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f96.hotmail.com [216.32.181.96]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA23085 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:44:23 -0800 Received: (qmail 26972 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jan 2000 18:43:38 -0000 Message-ID: <20000128184338.26971.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 129.93.198.34 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:43:38 PST X-Originating-IP: [129.93.198.34] From: "Brian Mckenzie" To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:43:38 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was just wondering why Worlds is scheduled to be held a week before or during the time when a large portion of major universities are scheduled to start classes. I'm sure this has been brought up many a time considering the large number of college students involved in the footbag scene, but I am just curious as to why this date was chosen. I hope this topic gets heavily debated. So, hey college kids, let's make ourselves heard and make sure this never happens again. Come on, I am just one man, and we all know that, despite what movies have told us, one man can not make a difference in this world. It's either we get Worlds changed or we talk to all of the university deans and try and convince them to postpone classes for a week. So come on, discuss, debate, argue. Brian "Kamakenzie" Mckenzie From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 28 19:28:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA28883 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:28:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28880 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:28:24 -0800 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23251 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:49:51 -0800 Received: from [206.67.46.8] (brat1.atext.com [206.67.46.8]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29160 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:49:16 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200001290322.TAA28860@list.footbag.org> References: <200001290322.TAA28860@list.footbag.org> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:50:30 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Worlds dates Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 7:22 PM -0800 1/28/00, Brian Mckenzie wrote: >I was just wondering why Worlds is scheduled to be held a week before or >during the time when a large portion of major universities are scheduled to >start classes. So why are you asking all the freestylers and not the Worlds committee? >I'm sure this has been brought up many a time considering the >large number of college students involved in the footbag scene, but I am >just curious as to why this date was chosen. Well, first of all, it has always been traditional for US high schools and colleges to start after Labor Day which is the first Monday in September. So it's confusing that you say that there are so many schools that start before then. >I hope this topic gets heavily >debated. And what good do you expect the debate will have? >So, hey college kids, let's make ourselves heard and make sure this >never happens again. Hmm.. So you want to stage a protest on my list? Why not just call up the organizers and have a conversation with them about it? Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 28 21:14:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28984 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:14:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25492 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:16:09 -0800 Received: from puffer ([199.172.153.109]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with SMTP id <20000128195015.MSJB29057.ewey.excite.com@puffer>; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:50:15 -0800 Message-ID: <7412555.949089015794.JavaMail.imail@puffer> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:50:15 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Davidson To: Derric Scalf Subject: Re: [freestyle] unique moves Cc: "'freestyle'" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 209.107.90.78 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Derric and jAll! On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:03:37 -0600, Derric Scalf wrote: > toe set torque and torque, > dragon set torque and torque, > clipper set spinning osis and toe set spinning osis, etc. > > I would really like to hear from Scott - since he is the head of the > freestyle committee on IFAB (or is it IFC now?). I have heard in past > judging clinics that all of these moves are the same - the set only > matters if it makes the move paradox. Personally, a toe set torque and > a clipper set torque feel very different, so I would count them as > unique. You heard right. According to the existing rules, you should NOT count those as unique. Not that I agree with it entirely, but that's the way it is. We (IFC) are VERY open to changing these things but we need concrete "micro-proposals" with firm arguments to persuade the dissenters (mostly net players, with "the good of freestyle" as their intentions)... with a powerful argument and a firm new wording, ANYTHING can be changed. We need these things in advance of IFC meetings in order to lobby for our causes. I had planned on replying to this thread sooner, but I just switced over to web based email on excite (my email stays the same, just adjusting to a "whole new way of doing things"). Looking forward to your replies! See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 28 22:09:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29059 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:09:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f193.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.193]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA27291 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:19:06 -0800 Received: (qmail 91476 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jan 2000 21:18:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20000128211831.91475.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:18:30 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Worlds dates Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:18:30 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve says... >Well, first of all, it has always been traditional for US high >schools and colleges to start after Labor Day which is the first >Monday in September. So it's confusing that you say that there are so many >schools that start before then. No Steve, it isn't confusing at all. That tradition ended about 9to 10 years ago. Actually, at LEAST that long ago--as they were doing it while I was in high school--six years ago. The vast majority of US institutions, high school and otherwise, begin either one or two weeks before Labor Day. As a matter of fact, I know the University of Missouri (all four campuses) starts two weeks before Labor Day... Coincidently the week of the 21st. I am not trying to start a debate, but Brian is right and his concern is valid. I will be a graduate by that time so it has no true impact on me, but I feel some of our top kickers (Ryan, Sunil, Brian, etc.) might be affected by this. Just the facts.... Ian D. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 28 22:26:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29103 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:26:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29100 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:26:01 -0800 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28254 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:47:28 -0800 Received: from [206.67.46.8] (brat1.atext.com [206.67.46.8]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26959 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:46:55 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200001290557.VAA29038@list.footbag.org> References: <200001290557.VAA29038@list.footbag.org> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:48:10 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Worlds dates Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >That tradition ended about 9to 10 years ago. Well that was dumb. :-) Nobody told me. :-) >I am not >trying to start a debate, but Brian is right and his concern is valid. *** Now, IF YOU DON'T READ THIS WHOLE MESSAGE, please at least jump down to the last few lines at the bottom! *** Nobody said his concern wasn't valid. I just think it's inane to have this conversation on the freestyle list when the smart thing to do would be to actually talk to the Worlds committee members themselves about it (though read below). The contact info is spewed all over the footbag.org website in very obvious places. I don't think it's constructive to whine in a closed freestyle list about it. This is not a democracy, per se (though obviously this stuff is very important because we *want* to please the most people). The fact is (frustrating as it is for all of us), we rely on an all-volunteer staff to put on events. We have no idea who will take Worlds next year and it worries me to no end that we may not have a world championships at all in 2001! We have to let these volunteers run own their events (though I can attest I was a thorn in the side of the organizers for last year's event). But it's not like a petition from the masses is needed. Just TALK TO THEM before trying to create some kind of popular uprising. Consider their issues and feelings, and work with them not against them. All that said, I have been thinking it's worth trying to change the dates of the event, now that we know there are so many people affected (but my opinion doesn't really count for much!). To help everyone out, I've just put a poll up on footbag.org to find out how many folks would be able to attend the current Worlds versus those who won't SOLELY because the date conflicts with Worlds, just to create a point of data for the Vancouver committee. ***** The poll is at http://www.footbag.org/poll/conduct/949095377 Please vote by Monday because the results will be sent to the Vancouver committee on Tuesday. Thanks. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 29 01:58:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA29236 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:58:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web2001.mail.yahoo.com (web2001.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.201]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA29887 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:49:57 -0800 Received: (qmail 28471 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jan 2000 22:43:56 -0000 Message-ID: <20000128224356.28470.qmail@web2001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.138.211.223] by web2001.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:43:56 PST Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:43:56 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Churney & Friends To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dear Freestylers, We are finished! The latest shred tape is complete in a two part series: "World's '99"- over 60 minutes of only the best strings busted by the top shredders at World's in Chicago, and "Reese's Pieces"- over 90 minutes of strings and highlights from TX State 99 and some serious skoolin from the Boulder Blades and our guests. At the conclusion of the program are, of course, the stars of the show seen with some of the hugest combos to date edited together for the thrill-seekers. Together this creates "Churney & Friends" a dedication to the most animated character in footbag, 'Dancer' Matt Churney. The Friends on the tape include Peter Irish, Ryan Mulroney, Rippin' Rick Reese, Scott Davidson, Brian McKenzie, Big Add Chad Devlahovic, Matt Churney, Daryl Genz, Kenny Shults, Sunil Jani, Tuan Vu, Eric Wulff, Greg Nelson, THREE FINNISH FREESTYLERS including Mika 'The Iceman', Eric Windsor, Richard Abshire, Ken 'CF' Somolinos, Alex Zerbe, Josh "The Mouth" Penney, Red Husted, Jonathan Schneider, Paul Mestas, Dave Holton, yours truly and more- 33 total. The price for both tapes is at no addition to one tape. Email me at ezshredz@footbag.org for info on receiving the tapes. IMPORTANT: Boulder Blades Productions is presenting a service to the footbag community. The freestylers who make up a good portion of the tapes will receive a FREE copy, out of respect and gratitude. If you are one of those people I will tell you after you email me about the tape; don't ask. Thank you, Eli Piltz Boulder Blades From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 29 01:58:35 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA29241 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:58:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.clearsail.net (mail.clearsail.net [207.252.227.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30969 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:23:32 -0800 Received: from rtgilber (usr40.clearsail.net [207.252.227.40]) by mail.clearsail.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA09158 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:00:34 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001701bf69e7$6ca6dd20$28e3fccf@rtgilber> From: "James Gilbert" To: Subject: [freestyle] Freestyle in Houston Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:28:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was wondering if anyone would want to come down to Houston, Texas for a freestyle shred and demo. The place where I lift weights has offered their nice big gym for a footbag demo/shred. The majority of the people who work there have shown interest in having a demo and one brought up the idea and offered the gym to use. I also know one of the head people who works there pretty well. It would probably be on a Saturday or Sunday. Just about any dates would work from a month from now till the end of the summer. I'll do it whenever the most people will be able to show. If it did work out I'm sure I'd be able to get the gym again in the summer. If anybody is interested in coming or can give me any advice on how to organize and get some publicity for this email me privately. later, James "skaboy" Gilbert From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 29 05:12:27 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA29639 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 05:12:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.118]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04292; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:35:18 -0800 Received: from storefull-273.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-273.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.242]) by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD552DA94; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:35:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by storefull-273.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id TAA13936; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:35:17 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAut7AUeXZV6c+/usMjq++CIp5LwACFD1UrnoXMVCFALQZoI3MN9+Zl7+g From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:35:17 -0500 (EST) To: brat@footbag.org (Steve Goldberg) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Worlds dates Message-ID: <28231-38925FF5-567@storefull-273.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Steve Goldberg 's message of Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:48:10 -0800 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all! SG said: >when the smart thing to do would be to >actually talk to the Worlds committee >members themselves about it I contacted them a few weeks back. I got a reply from them yesterday. They said the long and short of it is that the dates will stay the same. They cited not conflicting with the US Open as a main reason.They did say they wrestled with the problem for a while. I DO NOT want to discourage any of you from pursuing this further. I just wanted you to know it has been tried. These dates are still very troublesome for me. Take care, GF From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 29 05:26:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA29668 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 05:26:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Evan Edmondson Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.10]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06181 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:45:25 -0800 Received: from MasteCid@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.8.) id z.7b.f57e65 (3958) for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:44:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7b.f57e65.25c3ca40@aol.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:44:48 EST Subject: [freestyle] Trick Names To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 44 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Everyone, I have been looking through the footbag list(actually doing so right now) and I want to start a argument on it... I am seeing really cool names for tricks. Like for one of the simplest 2 add one, jester. Thats a good name. Pixie,another good name.Mirage,another one. I'm making the point that there are ualot of good SN's....but as i look down the list... Pixie Same Clipper....Why don't we call this something a little bit, um, cooler. I'm not here to make suggestions, but why do we have tricks named stuff like Paradox Symposium Mirage? Another one, stepping op reaper, why not call it someithng a little bit less technical.. Fairy Butterfly? Heres one that it does have a not-so technical name, vortex,which is a gyro drifter.Another one,parkwalk, which is a pixie same butterfly.My favorite Yoda,a pixie parkwalk.. Why don't we change all those names like gyro butterfly, paradox symposium mirage, all those into names like vortex. I kinda' think this will cut down on the confusion, I'm not sure though. I didn't write this to make suggestions. I'm just really asking why don't we? We have a voting poll, so then we can make suggestions in email,then put them on the voting poll, and see what people like best. -Evan "Skykicker" Edmondson From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 29 06:06:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA29702 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 06:06:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from goldenseal.3rd-coast.com (goldenseal.3rd-coast.com [209.79.28.6]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07034 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:24:10 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org (c1008757-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.7.100.246]) by goldenseal.3rd-coast.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:42:24 -0800 Message-ID: <3892798D.B7F12C3@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:24:29 -0600 From: "Derric Scalf" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Churney & Friends References: <20000128224356.28470.qmail@web2001.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eli Piltz wrote: > > Dear Freestylers, > > We are finished! Woohoo! For those of you who don't know... the Boulder crew put out only the highest quality footage around. I haven't seen these tapes yet, but trust me, you want them. If you ask nicely, Eli might even be able to dig up an old Sultans of Shred tape for you. I just thought I would let the newbies know - this is worth getting. -D From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 29 06:19:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA29725 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 06:19:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from goldenseal.3rd-coast.com (mta@goldenseal.3rd-coast.com [209.79.28.6]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07298 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:36:02 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org (c1008757-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.7.100.246]) by goldenseal.3rd-coast.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:55:18 -0800 Message-ID: <38927C94.15590D67@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:37:24 -0600 From: "Derric Scalf" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Trick Names References: <7b.f57e65.25c3ca40@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Evan Edmonson wrote: > Pixie Same Clipper....Why don't we call this something a little bit, um, > cooler. I'm not here to make suggestions, but why do we have tricks named > stuff like Paradox Symposium Mirage? Another one, stepping op reaper, why not > call it someithng a little bit less technical.. Evan, Dude, you are right on. If you are asking why *I* haven't come up with cool names for every move, it is because I suck at naming things. So, why don't you come up with names for each of these moves and send them to me. I am always saving suggested move names and I will put them on a list and send it out to this mailing list. If people like the names, they are "adopted". If people don't like the names, they are thrown out. This is an ongoing process... I'm all about getting better names for moves. But, the most important thing is that each unique move has a unique name. So, until we get good "common" names for each unique move, we have to deal with the long crappy "technical" names. My personal favorite long crappy name is "stepping opposite side symposium reverse whirl". That isn't on the list because it won't fit. Surely someone can come up with a better name, right? On a side note, I really like "smoke" for pixie drifter (I'm assuming this only applies to pixie opposite side drifter?). Does blurry drifter have a name - other than "blurry drifter"? -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 29 10:18:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12733 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:18:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from waddle.excite.com (waddle-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.222]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA32692 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:21:51 -0800 Received: from slippery ([199.172.153.106]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with SMTP id <20000129091925.URNI28603.kuku.excite.com@slippery> for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:19:25 -0800 Message-ID: <25483031.949137565310.JavaMail.imail@slippery> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:19:25 -0800 (PST) From: Allan Haggett Reply-To: To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] rewind combos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 216.86.102.156 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:24:39 -0700 (MST) Brad Kaplan wrote: > Scorpion tail/ barroque > spinning pdx mirage/ flux > spinning pdx illusion (rev. mirage)/ toe set torque > pixie-paradon/ flurry Slight correction: spinning pdx Mirage/toe set Torque spinning Illusion[GREAT NAME!!] / Flux ooops, got em backwards :~) >What are some cool combos you've been hitting, rewind or not? spinning Osis, spinning Osis, " ", " ", Torque, Barfly, ducking Butterfly, inspinning osis.... went for the pdx symp whirl and tweaked my neck out........ ACUPUNCTURE WORKS -":) Allan H. Victoria Rep. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 29 10:18:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12738 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:18:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06962 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:37:58 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FP300D01C38M1@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:37:56 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:37:56 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] unique moves In-reply-to: <7412555.949089015794.JavaMail.imail@puffer> To: Scott Davidson Cc: Derric Scalf , "'freestyle'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I think if the set of a trick comes from a different place then it should be considered unique. For instance, a clipper set torque and a toe set torque should be unique from each other. Really the differnce would be for things like setting from toe, inside, outside, clipper, dragon, frigid-osis. It would not include style difference like extra crispy torque versus original, hippy versus leggy eggbeater or legbeater; they are all truly the same trick but with a different style. However, I think where the set comes from often changes the body movement and style with which you are able to do a trick. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 29 18:42:10 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13150 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:42:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f284.hotmail.com [216.32.180.138]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA18732 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:21:15 -0800 Received: (qmail 59259 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jan 2000 17:20:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20000129172045.59258.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 198.150.50.118 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:20:45 PST X-Originating-IP: [198.150.50.118] From: "tom labeff" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Trick Names Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:20:45 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >My personal favorite long crappy name is >"stepping opposite side symposium reverse whirl". That isn't on the >list because it won't fit. Surely someone can come up with a better >name, right? Here are a couple names that should or could be slapped on some moves such as the above named: Like the teaming up of smear and fog, to create Smoke, these names are good foundations. TANGO FAST STEALTH MIRROR FUNKWALK PHANTOM GLIDER ALARM My favorite request for consideration would have to be my proposed name of 'ORBIT' for the lengthy named 'Double Around the World.' Anyway, it's all the same to me, I'm still trying to clean up my twos and threes. Never done a four-add. Love ya all. Thomas LaBeff From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 29 18:42:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13168 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:42:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13829; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:54:55 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FP300D01CVGFW@clem.mscd.edu>; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:54:52 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:54:52 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] rewind combos In-reply-to: <25483031.949137565310.JavaMail.imail@slippery> To: set@footbag.org Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sat, 29 Jan 2000, Allan Haggett wrote: > > spinning pdx mirage/ flux > > spinning pdx illusion (rev. mirage)/ toe set torque > > Slight correction: > spinning pdx Mirage/toe set Torque > spinning Illusion[GREAT NAME!!] / Flux > > ooops, got em backwards :~) Mmmm, you may want to check that. Notice how spinning pdx mirage ends in an in-out dex? For it to be a rewind it would then have to go into an out-in dex which would indeed be flux not torque. and same idea with spinning pdx illusion. Later yo, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 29 18:42:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13169 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:42:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07830 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:40:01 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FP300D01C6ONB@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:40:00 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:40:00 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Worlds dates In-reply-to: <20000128211831.91475.qmail@hotmail.com> To: Ian Dubman Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 28 Jan 2000, Ian Dubman wrote: > some of our top kickers (Ryan, Sunil, Brian, etc.) might be affected by > this. Hey you forgot my name in there!!! B-R-A-D too will have to do some fast talking to get out of the first week of classes. Bye From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 29 18:42:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13170 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:42:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f279.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.240.57]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA12527 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:51:41 -0800 Received: (qmail 52880 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jan 2000 09:51:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20000129095110.52879.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.69 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:51:10 PST X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.69] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pixie Drifter Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:51:10 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org KeN "CF" Somolinos wrote: >Hi stylers, >I've just recently started hitting and sealing pixie drifter, which >is a >really cool move ... I'd like to propose "Smoke," following in >the >tradition of pixie moves like Smear, Smudge, and Smog. Smoke is a pretty cool name, but if I may make a counter proposal, how about calling it "Captain Spiff" ? Spiff sounding a bit like Smear and DrIFFter, and you got to love the Bill Watterson referance. Cheers! -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 29 19:26:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13242 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:26:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f272.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.240.50]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA20633 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:46:05 -0800 Received: (qmail 35827 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jan 2000 18:45:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20000129184534.35826.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.183.120 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:45:34 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.183.120] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: concentus_tl@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Trick Names Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:45:34 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, Tom LaBeff wrote: >Like the teaming up of smear and fog, to create Smoke, Argh! OK, jamez Rizden was also confused about this. Here are the names of the dlo and pixie families. Smear: Pixie mirage Smudge: pixie reverse mirage Fear: Fairy Mirage Fudge: Fairy reverse mirage Haze: Stepping Dlo Fog: Blurry DLO Smog: Pixie DLO Flog: Fairy DLO And I proposed Pixie Drifter be called "Smoke," since it is a pixie move, and it feels right. I hope this e-mail clears up the names of some moves, and how they are related. I can't do the fairy moves, but I can do the other ones, and am pretty sure most of these names are accepted. Thanks to everybody who mailed me and supports "Smoke" as a shorter name for Pixie Drifter. Ken CF Somolinos Bear Feet From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 30 04:37:32 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA13998 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 04:37:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matt Cross Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.9]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21239 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:09:54 -0800 Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.8.) id z.67.11e9a0b (4386) for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:09:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <67.11e9a0b.25c494df@aol.com> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:09:19 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pixie Drifter To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 147 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 1/29/00 2:04:49 PM, damocles_schwert@hotmail.com writes: << how about calling it "Captain Spiff" ? >> I believe you mean "spaceman spiff"? any watterson fan knows that ;) anyways, I don't like the name, it's too long, it's kinda "clunky", I guess. matt From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 30 04:37:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA14003 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 04:37:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web2006.mail.yahoo.com (web2006.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.206]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA24938 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:51:37 -0800 Received: (qmail 16355 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Jan 2000 21:51:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20000129215137.16354.qmail@web2006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.138.211.223] by web2006.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:51:37 PST Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:51:37 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Re: World's Dates (talk directly) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey there, I'm glad the world's dates are being brought up now. I wrote to Juliet Pendray a few weeks ago to address this problem, and I have heard no response. Brian was on the right track except he left out who to speak to about it. If you have comments send them to: Juliet Pendray: aloe@intouch.bc.ca, (604) 736-7572 It will definitely keep me from attending the whole week, since my school starts on the 27th. If enough people politely disagree with a decision, their feelings will be heard and hopefully acted upon, like politics- if you vote for a candidate that supports (Green) morality over greed you are not throwing your vote away. Please folks this is your chance to count. Yours truly, Eli From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 30 04:37:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA13993 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 04:37:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from acorn.cc.swarthmore.edu (root@acorn.cc.swarthmore.edu [130.58.64.40]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22513 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:20:35 -0800 Received: from swarthmore.edu (d143.parrish-dorm01.swarthmore.edu [130.58.237.143]) by acorn.cc.swarthmore.edu with ESMTP id PAA25404; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:20:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38934B7F.9AA60815@swarthmore.edu> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:20:16 -0500 From: Tony NoLastName X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew McCargar CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pixie Drifter References: <20000129095110.52879.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Smoke is a pretty cool name, but if I may make a counter proposal, how about > calling it "Captain Spiff" ? Spiff sounding a bit like Smear and DrIFFter, > and you got to love the Bill Watterson referance. Don't have an opinion on the name, but the Calvin reference would be "Spaceman Spiff," as opposed to Captain.Ý Minor details. tony From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 30 04:59:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA14047 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 04:59:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14044 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 04:59:54 -0800 Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01496 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:21:16 -0800 Received: from [206.67.46.8] (brat1.atext.com [206.67.46.8]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29790 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:19:55 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000129215137.16354.qmail@web2006.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20000129215137.16354.qmail@web2006.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:21:47 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Re: World's Dates (talk directly) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:51 PM -0800 1/29/00, Eli Piltz wrote: >If you have comments send them to: > >Juliet Pendray: aloe@intouch.bc.ca, (604) >736-7572 I have two comments on this: (1) Please don't spam or otherwise overload Juliet. The reason for my poll is to give her the data without making her talk to *every* person who might miss it because of the dates; please be respectful of her time. The poll is at http://www.footbag.org/poll/conduct/949095377 -- I will be sending her the results (and publishing them here) on Tuesday, so please fill it out as soon as possible. (2) The contact information above is on the event list and on the member list, both on footbag.org. I specifically didn't copy it here because I want people to get in the habit of looking up contact information on the website -- that's most of its purpose. Thanks. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 30 05:00:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14059 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 05:00:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA01399 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:17:13 -0800 Received: (qmail 21112 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Jan 2000 04:17:11 -0000 Message-ID: <20000130041711.21111.qmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.88.96] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:17:11 PST Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:17:11 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: [freestyle] muscle memory To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all, Could someone please skool me on muscle memory? The only thing i know about it is, when you skool a move hard core then lay off for a day or so....your moves you where skoolin hard will become much smoother. Ive experienced this quite a bit and i would like to learn more about it... Thanx ShreddinEd P.S. I hit A few paradox double legovers and symposium whirls.....yay!!! From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 30 06:26:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA23767 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 06:26:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f25.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.25]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA03201 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:40:36 -0800 Received: (qmail 59217 invoked by uid 0); 30 Jan 2000 05:40:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20000130054005.59216.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.44.107.90 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:40:05 PST X-Originating-IP: [216.44.107.90] From: "Stan Sagalovskiy" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Pixie Drifter and move names Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:40:05 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >KeN "CF" Somolinos wrote: >>really cool move ... I'd like to propose "Smoke," following in >the >Andrew wrote: >how about calling it "Captain Spiff" ? just a comment -- stop butchering move names! :) i think "smoke" is a FINE name -- short and sweet. and about long move names like paradox symposium blah blah if a "good" name is proposed - i agree. but with suggestions like "captain spiff" (no offense Andrew :)) - i'd much rather prefer "pixie drifter" fog, smoke, rain, and hail, Stan From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 30 07:53:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA27819 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 07:53:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04875 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:55:20 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FP400B01Z87K2@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:55:19 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:55:19 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Trick Names In-reply-to: <20000129172045.59258.qmail@hotmail.com> To: tom labeff Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sat, 29 Jan 2000, tom labeff wrote: > My favorite request for consideration would have to be my proposed name of > 'ORBIT' for the lengthy named 'Double Around the World.' I like some of the names you came up with, but isn't ORBIT another way of going "around the world". So wouldn't you still have to say "double orbit". How about "satellite". Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 30 07:53:37 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA27824 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 07:53:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05123 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:08:32 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FP400C01ZU7UU@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:08:31 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:08:31 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Pixie Drifter and move names In-reply-to: <20000130054005.59216.qmail@hotmail.com> To: Stan Sagalovskiy Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 30 Jan 2000, Stan Sagalovskiy wrote: > i think "smoke" is a FINE name -- short and sweet. > fog, smoke, rain, and hail, I personally don't like the name "smoke" for pixie drifter. I might propose "spliff", but I like "HAIL" better. Hey Derric, since you are so big on the naming thing maybe you should see if Steve's new polling idea can help out with that. You know, choose a few names that are discussed on the list and politely ask Steve to poll them. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 30 07:53:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA27814 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 07:53:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f313.hotmail.com [216.32.180.167]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA04788 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:52:20 -0800 Received: (qmail 66199 invoked by uid 0); 30 Jan 2000 06:51:49 -0000 Message-ID: <20000130065149.66198.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 129.93.198.34 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:51:48 PST X-Originating-IP: [129.93.198.34] From: "Brian Mckenzie" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] vote on worlds Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:51:48 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just want to encourage everyone to vote about attending worlds. It really might make a difference. Brian Mckenzie From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 30 17:22:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28862 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:22:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Evan Edmonson Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.6]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02473 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:28:03 -0800 Received: from MasteCid@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.8.) id z.a4.10668b (4587) for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:27:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:27:28 EST Subject: [freestyle] 1) swirl 2)"Blind" Tricks 3)How Long Have You Been playing footbag? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 44 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Can someone please give me and "how-to" tutorial on the trick swirl. I know it is a cross-body around the world, but, how in the world do you do that??? I've tried doing it several times, but i end up doing a clipper kick trying to circle it. I know there are several move types,(paradox,blurry,gyro and pixie), but how about blind? You know...when you do a trick that you can't really see or have to turn your head all the way back to do,sort of behind the back. I've been doing these lately, and I think they should go in with paradox,blury,all them move types. There could be blind flapper delays or somthing like that. IS there a reason that blind is on the footbag list. Last but not least I would like to know how long everyone has been playing. I've known the sport for a long time, but I'm just now starting to take it seriously. Since somewhere around the 17th of August of 99' is when I started looking at the list, studying the videos and such. The reason the 17th that is when school started for me, and I needed somthing to do during break so I brought my footbag. Even since then I've been bringing it everyday. So its been several months for me. Here are the tricks I can now do... All the stalls, including clipper. Mirage Around The World Butterfly and Butterfly Kick Dragonfly Kick Gyro Butterfly Kick Flapper Stall Osis Gyro Mirage Abunch of weird behind the back stuff. Cloud Stall and Kick Heel Kick and Stall Some Ducking and Diving Tricks And the highest number of times I kicked is like 55 or somthing. -Evan "Skykicker" Edmondson From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 30 19:28:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA29257 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:28:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06791 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:25:06 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FP600K01K5OMZ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:25:00 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:25:00 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] vote on worlds In-reply-to: <20000130065149.66198.qmail@hotmail.com> To: Brian Mckenzie Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 30 Jan 2000, Brian Mckenzie wrote: > I just want to encourage everyone to vote about attending worlds. It really > might make a difference. > Brian Mckenzie Yes, heed the call, make a difference, gain glory amongst your peers. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 30 20:03:37 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA29385 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:03:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07443 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:53:43 -0800 Received: from mail4.magma.ca (mail4.magma.ca [206.191.0.222]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17310 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:53:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from dave (port-4-248.magma.ca [206.191.1.248]) by mail4.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA19383 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:53:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000d01bf6b9e$7d120140$0b01010a@dave> From: "Dave Reid" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] 1) swirl 2)"Blind" Tricks 3)How Long Have You Been playing footbag? Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:51:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org -----Original Message----- > Last but not least I would like to know how long everyone has been >playing. Sounds like this might make an interesting poll. I would hate to see everyone reply to the list! Dave From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 30 20:23:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA29437 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:23:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pilot002.cl.msu.edu (pilot002.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.102]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07934 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:16:54 -0800 Received: from pilot.msu.edu (keithada.user.msu.edu [35.10.19.108]) by pilot002.cl.msu.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA28930 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:16:51 -0500 Message-ID: <38950C75.5BBD4EF@pilot.msu.edu> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:15:49 -0500 From: Adam Keith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Stomping Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I've seen stomping listed as a move element on footbag.org and I was wondering if there is an add (body?) awarded for a stomping move, or is it just a way of doing a different move variety? Adam Keith From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 30 21:01:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA29544 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:01:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08297 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:48:41 -0800 Received: from slippery ([199.172.153.106]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with SMTP id <20000131044043.NPQI28603.kuku.excite.com@slippery>; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:40:43 -0800 Message-ID: <16371805.949293643917.JavaMail.imail@slippery> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:40:43 -0800 (PST) From: Allan Haggett Reply-To: To: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] rewind combos Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 216.86.101.190 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:54:52 -0700 (MST), Brad Kaplan wrote: > On Sat, 29 Jan 2000, Allan Haggett wrote: > > > spinning pdx mirage/ flux > > > spinning pdx illusion (rev. mirage)/ toe set torque > > > > Slight correction: > > spinning pdx Mirage/toe set Torque > > spinning Illusion[GREAT NAME!!] / Flux > > > > ooops, got em backwards :~) > > > Mmmm, you may want to check that. Notice how spinning pdx mirage > ends in an in-out dex? For it to be a rewind it would then have to go > into an out-in dex which would indeed be flux not torque. and same idea > with spinning pdx illusion. > > Later yo, > Brad OK, so I guess what I would call rewind and what you would call rewind are two different things. Apparently I'm wrong as no one has backed me up. So be it. It just doesn't really make sense to me. I would consider a rewind move to be two moves that are the same, just executed in reverse order. If you were to take a video of spinning prdx mirage and slow-mo rewind it would look like a toe set torque; not a flux. That's what I thought was rewind. Then again I only read this list to know these things, so misinterpretation is inevitable:) Allan H. Victoria BC _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 30 21:02:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA29554 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:02:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from curly.excite.com ([199.172.153.144]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08388 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:00:17 -0800 Received: from slippery ([199.172.153.106]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with SMTP id <20000131045807.NWQD4372.fortune.excite.com@slippery>; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:58:07 -0800 Message-ID: <24400302.949294687532.JavaMail.imail@slippery> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:58:07 -0800 (PST) From: Allan Haggett Reply-To: To: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] rewind combos Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 216.86.101.190 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Brad and anyone who was paying attention, ALLRIGHT, ALLRIGHT!! After realizing that I must have severed a main pathway in my neck connecting my brain with the rest of my body when I tweaked it the other day I have come to the realization that I am just plain WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!! How could I have been so wrong? I apologize, hang my head and slither away from this discussion while trying to maintain what little confidence I have left in myself and my own logic :) Allan H. Victoria BC _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 31 08:14:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA30377 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:14:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ux4.isu.edu (mta@ux4.isu.edu [134.50.250.16]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08195 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:30:05 -0800 Received: from isu.edu ([134.50.103.12]) by ux4.isu.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2AB4; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:30:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3895AAAB.2B26980E@isu.edu> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:30:51 -0700 From: Bob Green X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brad Kaplan , "freestyle@footbag.org" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Trick Names References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sat, 29 Jan 2000, tom labeff wrote: > My favorite request for consideration would have to be my proposed name of > 'ORBIT' for the lengthy named 'Double Around the World.' Then Brad Kaplan Wrote: >I like some of the names you came up with, but isn't ORBIT another >way of going "around the world". So wouldn't you still have to say >"double orbit". How about "satellite". I write, somewhat sarcastically: Mathematics is one of the most clear and concise languages there are. With that in mind, I propose double around the world be called "r" where r = cos(theta) and theta goes from 0 to 4(pi). Then, it is obvious to those who speak the language there are two circles. Why are we making this so confusing? Though long, double around the world as a name is very visual and easy to understand. Just my thoughts, Bob From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 31 08:14:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA30368 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:14:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ns1x.pvt.net (ns.pvt.net [194.149.105.18]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25663 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 02:21:35 -0800 Received: from rastafa (phuD005.pvt.net [194.149.100.5]) by ns1x.pvt.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA15533 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:20:54 +0100 Message-ID: <001601bf6bd4$a6878000$056495c2@rastafa> From: "Jan Struz" To: Subject: [freestyle] Artistic movement in circus Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:19:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org HI all, few days ago I saw a man(artist performing in circus) a juggler - he was juggling and he did one move that I thought could be done in footbag as well. I would like to hear that someone did it, but I doubt He made a flip or salto if u want between his juggling skills. Whooo---- I always tried saltos only to water- but I'll try to figure out some moves with saltos(oh jeah - he did it both ways-front to back & reverse as well) I thought about some moves with this element - would that be a new element if someone can do it - cos u would rotate jor whole body around the bag?> I was thinking bout moves when u salto over the bag as well as u could salto it under - THat would be really artistic What u all think; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 05:52:43 -0800 Received: from storefull-283.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-283.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.245]) by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F0A93701 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 05:52:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by storefull-283.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id FAA04007; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 05:52:42 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAierf5g9VZn9NaiG5RHLsjhInn2MCFBkm4PWEnBSw1W0WrFVIMnbLuJiQ From: HackPappy@webtv.net (Aj Horton) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:52:42 -0500 (EST) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] how long Message-ID: <4489-389593AA-17471@storefull-283.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org 10 years here and im in the dark on the lingo so if anyone can help me w/ this i would appreciate it .i just got the web and i ever knew there was such a vast community of kickers out there. but i am ready to kick(no pun intended)the doors open and kick some hack http://community.webtv.net/HackPappy/SERIOUSHACKYSACKER From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 31 13:21:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA30660 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:21:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from goldenseal.3rd-coast.com (mta@goldenseal.3rd-coast.com [209.79.28.6]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12207 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:52:09 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org (c1008757-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.7.100.246]) by goldenseal.3rd-coast.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with ESMTP id com; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:11:30 -0800 Message-ID: <3895E868.70874416@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:54:16 -0600 From: "Derric Scalf" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aj Horton CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] how long References: <4489-389593AA-17471@storefull-283.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello. If you are new to the sport, you should go to http://www.footbag.org Everything you could ever want to know is on that page. Just spend some of your free time reading something on that site. Many of us owe Steve Golberg for opening our eyes to footbag. Hacky Sack has come a long way. So, thanks Steve. You can find info on upcoming tournaments - you will never *truly* understand footbag until you hit a couple of tournaments. Also, hook up with a local club. Later. -D Aj Horton wrote: > > 10 years here and im in the dark on the lingo so if anyone can help me > w/ this i would appreciate it .i just got the web and i ever knew there > was such a vast community of kickers out there. > but i am ready to kick(no pun intended)the doors open and kick some hack > > http://community.webtv.net/HackPappy/SERIOUSHACKYSACKER From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 31 13:41:15 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA30704 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:41:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13831 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:30:16 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39336) with SMTP id <0FP700N01YEENP@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:30:14 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:30:14 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Trick Names In-reply-to: <3895AAAB.2B26980E@isu.edu> To: Bob Green Cc: "freestyle@footbag.org" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Bob Green wrote: > Why are we making this so confusing? Though long, double around the world > as a name is very visual and easy to understand. Don't worry, I'm with you on this. I'd rather save a name like sattelite for a double ducking somethings or other. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 31 22:38:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA31513 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:38:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dnvrpop2.dnvr.uswest.net (dnvrpop2.dnvr.uswest.net [206.196.128.4]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA22075 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:34:16 -0800 Received: (qmail 89240 invoked by alias); 1 Feb 2000 06:34:15 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freestyle@footbag.org@fixme Received: (qmail 89227 invoked by uid 0); 1 Feb 2000 06:34:15 -0000 Received: from jjdialup108.dnvr.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.160.138.108) by dnvrpop2.dnvr.uswest.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 06:34:15 -0000 Message-ID: <38967E8A.9A267A41@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:34:50 -0700 From: "Matt Wafaie" Reply-To: mattius@uswest.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Colorado shred Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I am so dang pumped for this event. I've gotten myself all excited. I've gotten cleared for Saturday and sunday but haven't decided if I'll compete as an intermediate. I'll probably get there and be intimidated and chicken out. I'm still excited though! M@