From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 03:18:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA17524 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 03:18:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Ariel Santesteban Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24424 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 23:43:00 -0700 Received: from knuckles.excite.com ([199.172.148.179]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000831064225.MTO13334.ewey.excite.com@knuckles.excite.com> for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 23:42:25 -0700 Message-ID: <9877539.967704145810.JavaMail.imail@knuckles.excite.com> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 23:42:25 -0700 (PDT) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle Judging Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 143.166.99.251 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:30:53 -0700, Steve Goldberg wrote: > Also, I'd have to say that the whole point behind the formula-based > judging system, which I think we'll probably do away with this year > (if I get my way :-)), is to find the player who can combine all four > of the following skills: > > - execution (flawless play and form) > - presentation (superb showmanship and choreography) > - variety (outstanding breadth and depth of moves in the routine) > - difficulty (insane shreds) > [sarcasm on] Steve, you are forgetting the most important part or the judged score: USE OF FLOOR SPACE I think your score should be judged by 99% Floor Space The other 1% should be execution, presentation, variety & difficulty. [sarcasm off] I think that being judged on floor space is ridiculous. I'm for getting rid of that. my $.02 Ariel Santesteban Austin Style Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 03:21:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA17537 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 03:21:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web4602.mail.yahoo.com (web4602.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.105.157]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA29940 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 04:06:06 -0700 Message-ID: <20000831110531.14457.qmail@web4602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.167.210.62] by web4602.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 04:05:31 PDT Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 04:05:31 -0700 (PDT) From: john kingi Subject: Re: [freestyle] Is this a move? To: Freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. On Tue, On Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 09:47:52PM -0500, Frank Montanaro wrote: > Hey all,… > While doing a neck catch I dropped down to the > ground (in a push-up position) and then popped back > up and continued it. It…. I believe that anything you do with a footbag is a move even if the add system doesn't deem it worthy of an add. (To all those ultra sensitive people who sometimes take things the wrong way, this is in no way a dig at the add system) Where I live we used to play Hacky before we knew footbag existed and a lot of the moves were very 'street-style' I guess you could say. A few moves I used to do (and sometimes still pull out of the bag every now and then) include one where I'd catch the footbag on my throat (leaning backwards) drop down on to my back and do a Jacky Chan style kick up where you throw your feet into the air then push off your back so that you fly up off the ground back onto your feet. Another consisted of setting the footbag up to my side, jumping and spinning into a handstand position so the direction you were originally facing is now your back and before landing in a handstand kicking the footbag over your head as a pass to the next person. Not sure if there's an invert add. (joke) Anyway these days, since going tiltless I've kind of stopped hitting these but I can say I've never seen anyone else hit these moves. Later all Johnny From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 03:22:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA17548 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 03:22:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00397 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 07:40:09 -0700 Received: from mail4.magma.ca (mail4.magma.ca [206.191.0.222]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22438 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:40:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (port-2-206.magma.ca [206.191.63.206]) by mail4.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA21524 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:40:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001d01c01359$02332fe0$0b01010a@dave> From: "Dave Reid" To: Subject: [freestyle] Over 30 freestyle Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:37:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I am looking for advice from the older freestylers out there. Is there hope for someone who is a beginner at 30? I have no dreams of becoming a shred monster or an open level competitor. I just want to have fun, stay in shape, and maybe compete at the intermediate level. Any late starters out there that can give me some encouragement? Am I foolish? Will my knees hold out? Any words of advice? Cheers, Dave From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 03:24:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA17560 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 03:24:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1306.mail.yahoo.com (web1306.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.156]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA01831 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 09:12:42 -0700 Received: (qmail 11497 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Aug 2000 16:12:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20000831161236.11496.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.168.248.1] by web1306.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 09:12:36 PDT Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 09:12:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Reply-To: janejones2000@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle World Champion Ranking To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Okay Steve, I'll slow down here. :-) It was great to have shred at the tournament this year. It was even more awesome to see a lot of non-competitors participating because of the shred event! My reasoning for a modified judging system/requirements is to create another filter that simply helps minimize the flaws of our current judging system. I think I mentioned briefly that this year's World's was an exception because our Champions are both shredders and great performers. I considered that the current routine cards take difficulty, varierty and execution into consideration. However, routine does not take into consideration that some of the best freestylers are not performers and do "choke", as Ryan would say. ;-) Or that some of the best freestylers have terrible choreography, poor choice of music, nervousness, inexperienced judges, biased judges, etc. All factors that are not a reflection of their freestyle capabilities. With the informality of shred, there is less pressure to perform "grace under pressure". You have 45 seconds to hit what you can...try to keep adds and variety high, don't worry about losing anything but time by dropping. I think the fact that there is no routine involved allows people to relax a bit more and go for what they've gotten there foot on before...the big stuff they can hit in circles, and not be penalized for dropping, only credited for hitting what they do. As far as promoting the sport, isn't this what man! ! ! y of the spectators want to see? In response to one of the other comments on this list, I don't think this would be a complicated change. In fact, I think this would be a very simple change now that Shred is being formalized into a regulated event. It would only take simple mathematics because shred is easier to judge than routine and it's un-biased. I don't suspect this idea will be inherited immediately, I just think it's looking toward the evolution of freestyle competition. It doesn't force you to compete in both events, but encourages you to if you want to be ranked. It actually puts more emphasis on either category because if you flail at one event, you must do well in the other (more pressure). Or, if you rage at one event, you are still pressured to do well in the other, or another player will challenge your position on the totem. Also cool, because the shred score breaks things up so you can compare between routine pools. Say if 3 people are ranked 9th because they didn't make the cut from their pools to finals, then the shred score would break them apart into 9th, 10th and 11th place. Okay, just some ideas, not the gosphel. I still think it's a cool idea. Sorry if I didn't clear much up, it's still a new concept for me...just talking it out Adios, Jane. P.S. Did you guys catch that part about Mel thinking of Seattle? :-D Yahooooooo From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 03:25:32 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA17571 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 03:25:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mx2.magma.ca (mx2.magma.ca [206.191.0.250]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06056 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:04:09 -0700 Received: from mail3.magma.ca (mail3.magma.ca [206.191.0.221]) by mx2.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03266 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (port-6-66.magma.ca [206.191.7.66]) by mail3.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA13673 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001801c0137d$e2c56180$0b01010a@dave> From: "Dave Reid" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Anyone Live Here? Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:01:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Go to the website, open the members section, and do a search on New Brunswick. Isn't that website great? Dave Will wrote: >Does anyone who reads this live in Moncton New Brunswick, Canada? Or even in >New Brunswick for that matter? > Will From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 03:26:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA17583 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 03:26:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12377 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:28:25 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G0600F01JV27N@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:28:14 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:28:14 -0600 (MDT) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle World Champion Ranking In-reply-to: <20000829180542.11330.qmail@web1304.mail.yahoo.com> To: Jane Jones Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Jane Jones wrote: > > I think that to be a Freestyle Singles World Champion you should have > to compete as an overall competitor in both Shred and Routine. The > ranking would be based on an accumilative score of the two events. I think that's a GREAT idea. There is of course an "overall" category that covers golf, consecs, and net. Still I think this would be a great thing as far as Freestyle itself is concerned. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 03:27:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA17594 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 03:27:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from sfo.jsishipping.com (jsishipping.com [207.33.33.34]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14121 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:58:52 -0700 Received: from sfofw1.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.36]) by sfo.jsishipping.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-64750U500L500S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:57:27 -0700 Message-ID: <39AEFE26.529B57CB@jsishipping.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:53:58 -0700 From: Eric Wulff X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle Subject: Re: [freestyle] WARNING... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, Tsunami posted regarding the Funtastik Summer Classic this Labor Day Weekend in Harrisburg, PA and he couldn't of been more.... "Right On!" I copied part below. Funtastik Rocks! The Solonoski's(the folks running the tourney) Rock! The site Rocks! The freestyle there is intense every year! If you have any question about going to this tourney this should've cleared it up for you. Go & Get Funky... Aside from those listed below, I'm sure Ken S and many of the Montreal shredders will be going. Eric Sunil wrote... The following culprits are involved in a conspiracy to unleash some heinous shred at the FUNTASTIK SUMMER CLASSIC this weekend. THE ENFORCER - Kenny Shults THE EXECUTIONER - Peter Irish GF SMOOTHIE - Greg Nelson THE BIONIC MAN - Eric Wulff LA SHREDITA BONITA - Carol Wedemeyer THE ENLIGHTENER - Scott Davidson THE EQUALIZER - Ryan Mulroney THE JUGGERNAUT - Josh Penny THE BRAT - Steve Goldberg and myself TSUNAMI - Sunil Jani From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 03:28:17 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA17605 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 03:28:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web4005.mail.yahoo.com (web4005.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.104.39]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA14870 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:38:49 -0700 Message-ID: <20000901013814.8720.qmail@web4005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.218.209.36] by web4005.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:38:14 PDT Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:38:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Bobby Fournier Subject: [freestyle] backflip?!?! To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all shredders, I was downtown shredding when I decided to do something off the ledge like we've recently been discussing, and I've always been able to do a backflip or frontflip off a ledge, I was tinquering with it hacking, i toe delayed it, flipped it up high behing me and then backflipped and almost caught it with another toe delay, and now that I can do backflips on level ground, I was wondering if any of you would consider trying it as a move?!?! Bob-Y From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 03:29:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA17616 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 03:29:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Brian Parsons Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08740 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:28:48 -0700 Received: from TrollJr22@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id z.dd.927e24d (4008) for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:27:58 EDT Subject: [freestyle] St Charles Shred Fest Footbag Tournament To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 111 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What's up all shredders? This is just a reminder that the St Charles footbag tournament is coming up on September 9th. We hope you all are planning on attending. For those of you who are could you please e-mail me at trolljr22@aol.com or Matt at Glfsproket@aol.com and let us know. We hope you can make it and look forward to hearing from you. If you have questions about directions or anything let us know, we will be glad to answer. Thanks, Brian and Matt From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 08:48:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA18232 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 08:48:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18229 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 08:48:28 -0700 Received: from fep2.excitehome.net (fep2.excitehome.net [24.0.26.113]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20998 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 01:12:22 -0700 Received: from [24.16.28.243] by fep2.excitehome.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000901081207.PHNC15061.fep2.excitehome.net@[24.16.28.243]> for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 01:12:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000831161236.11496.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20000831161236.11496.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 01:11:45 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle World Champion Ranking Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:12 AM -0700 8/31/00, Jane Jones wrote: >My reasoning for a modified judging system/requirements is to create >another filter that simply helps minimize the flaws of our current >judging system. It sounded from your earlier mail that you were trying to combine two scores together from shred and routines as they currently stand, but the above sentence seems like you're actually wanting to modify the judging system. Of course, when you get into that, you open the (good) can of worms that generally really gets this list going. :-) Either way, I'm open to changing the judging system -- hence I advocated, and IFC adopted, two new freestyle judging systems so that tournament organizers and players could begin to get experience with alternative systems. >I think I mentioned briefly that this year's World's was an >exception because our Champions are both shredders and great >performers. And I contend that it's *not* an exception. It's exactly what the judging system is trying to get people to do, and players are consistently rising to this level of play. That's a good thing! >However, routine does not take into consideration that some of the >best freestylers are not performers and do "choke", as Ryan would >say. ;-) But you missed my point, I think. I was saying a lot of "good" players also choked in shred. Chokers are chokers. :-) >Or that some of the best freestylers have terrible choreography, >poor choice of music, nervousness, inexperienced judges, biased >judges, etc. All factors that are not a reflection of their >freestyle capabilities. I'd argue that point, but for the sake of this discussion I'll stipulate that I understand why you feel this way and we can assume this is true for the sake of this discussion. >I think the fact that there is no routine involved allows people to >relax a bit more and go for what they've gotten there foot on >before...the big stuff they can hit in circles, and not be penalized >for dropping, only credited for hitting what they do. That's exactly why we offer the event. >As far as promoting the sport, isn't this what many of the >spectators want to see? Not always. I think they both have their strengths and weaknesses in terms of pleasing crowds and video cameras. It's no mistake that the open (men's and women's) finals this year were full of crowd energy and excitement. >It actually puts more emphasis on either category because if you >flail at one event, you must do well in the other (more pressure). Honestly, we have too many events and too much going on at Worlds as it is. The more events we offer, and the more events we require people to play to get "ranking", the worse the problem becomes. This year was not the first year that nobody really went for the "overall" award (the results of that, by the way, are still to be computed by yours truly if anyone will send me the data). Having mini-overall awards for each event is ludicrous in terms of the work involved and the expectations it puts on the players. In fact, my longer-term goal in introducing shred was to do away with routines altogether. I think we need them for a while (and routines like I saw at Worlds this year make me want to ensure they don't disappear entirely), but I would like to de-emphasize them and get rid of them at tournaments. They're more for showcasing the sport (like pro figure skating) than serious competitive forums [sic]. I'd like to see us embrace the fact that freestyle footbag has become a very technical discipline, like diving or skateboarding, and focus competitive events on that in the long term. I don't see why we can't do that sooner rather than later since most of the freestylers who compete in open today are also extremely technical players. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 21:10:10 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19131 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 21:10:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f258.hotmail.com [216.32.180.216]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18147 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 21:02:02 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 21:01:27 -0700 Received: from 4.48.226.23 by lw2fd.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Sep 2000 04:01:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.48.226.23] Reply-To: TheMouse@footbag.org From: "Mickey Mayer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] backflip?!?! Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 00:01:27 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Sep 2000 04:01:27.0816 (UTC) FILETIME=[4DA18880:01C013C9] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, Bobby F. posted: >i toe delayed it, flipped it up high behing me and then backflipped >and >almost caught it with another toe delay. Pretty cool. In fact, I met this guy at Worlds who was toe delaying then front flipping into a pendulum. It looked real cool. Actually, I may have gotten it somewhere on tape. Can't remember. Guy, if you're on the list, identify yourself. Sorry I can't remember your name. Peace all. The Mouse From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 21:10:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19136 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 21:10:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web803.mail.yahoo.com (web803.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.63]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA18746 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 21:50:38 -0700 Received: (qmail 28347 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Sep 2000 04:54:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20000901045434.28346.qmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.88.155] by web803.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 21:54:34 PDT Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 21:54:34 -0700 (PDT) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] St Charles Shred Fest Footbag Tournament To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Brian Parsons wrote: > We hope > you all are planning on > attending. Me too. Be there! BTW Brain, Im probably gonna be able to go. The few female freestylers will probably be happy to hear that there is a new chick shredder in the works. Brian's Girlfriend REALLY digs shred, shes got lavers on the way. This girl hit legover, atw (almost both sides) both side toe and inside stall in about 10 min. That's sickening...So LOOKOUT Later, Jamez For video of midwest shredders..... http://members.xoom.com/shreddined/ Not much on it yet, but I'm workin on it. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 21:17:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19172 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 21:17:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web4601.mail.yahoo.com (web4601.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.105.156]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA26192 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 04:39:11 -0700 Message-ID: <20000901113835.19428.qmail@web4601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.167.210.2] by web4601.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 01 Sep 2000 04:38:35 PDT Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 04:38:35 -0700 (PDT) From: john kingi Subject: Re: [freestyle] backflip?!?! To: Freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Bobby Fournier wrote: > Hey all shredders, > i toe delayed it, flipped it up high behind > me and then flipped and almost caught it with > another toe delay, Hey All. Phat trick Bobby, I've Done a cheaper version of that a few years back. Caught the footbag on my toe (with my back to the circle) then backfipped, as i came over it just kind of came of my foot like it was a planned pass. There's a guy who kicks with us every now and then who does Capoeira (not sure of the spelling, Brazilian martial art) and he's learnt to intergrate that with hacky and its very interesting. I've seen him do a one armed handstand and in that position hit what would usualy be called a hopover. Got to be seen to be believed. Anyway keep kicking. Johnny From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 21:18:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19183 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 21:18:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29659 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 08:18:00 -0700 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000901151724.CPVV1641.kuku.excite.com@chilly.excite.com>; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 08:17:24 -0700 Message-ID: <4827653.967821444552.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 08:17:24 -0700 (PDT) From: yorghos carabas To: Bobby Fournier , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] backflip?!?! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 131.216.93.39 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hold on a sec there bud; not all of us can do backflips (or ever will be). But that is not where i am going with this; i feel that a backflip is more a gymnastic move than a footbag move. Basically ur not doing much with the footbag besides throwing it really high and toe stalling; even though the backflip could be counted as 75 dex adds. the skill here isn't with the footbag, but with the backflip; so I wouldn't count it as a footbag trick. But, no ones says you should listen to me, since my opinion is slightly (greatly) bias, cause i can't do a backflip. new guy _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 21:36:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19227 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 21:36:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (qmail 21627 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Sep 2000 20:13:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20000901201334.21626.qmail@web2006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.207.133.26] by web2006.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 01 Sep 2000 13:13:34 PDT Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 13:13:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle World Champion To: freestyle@list.footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What's up freestyle community?! Long time no post. This comp discussion kicks @$$! Ariel is right on when he says we should do away with "use of floor space". After World's, about a dozen of us went camping near Whistler (it was beautiful), and at one time we had an 'advanced' discussion about routines and freestyle in general. The consensus was that use of floor space is rediculous, since lots of roaming might not be what a freestyler wants to express with his/her routine- it's really just an old preference, useless by today's standards of play. As to what Steve said about dismantling the formula judging: I couldn't agree more! We need simplification. We need to show a routine's results within 15 seconds of its conclusion if we are to ever have this sport broadcasted. The FOUR CATEGORIES are appropriate- there are two ways I see possible: first, each judge could take into account all four categories and award one's own overall score (more difficult IMO), or second there could be two judges for each category- at the conclusion of a routine they could input their score into a database and have a calculation program to give the score. I do think 2 minute routines have a place in the sport. Now here's something really cool! > I think the fact that there is no routine involved allows people to relax a bit more and go for what they've gotten there foot on before...the big stuff they can hit in circles, Well, I had a related thought a couple nights ago and I discussed it with Abshire. How's this, you have twenty-one seconds to bust the phattest ten contacts you can. I'm not sure how exactly to judge it- I'm thinking half technical, half subjective (form, both-side-usage, poise, etc.). You could have a planned ten contacts or just improv. Wulff wrote: > Just don't lose the > attention of the crowd and WOW the FUCK out of > em!!... NON STOP! It CAN > be done and that is how all freestyle events > should be run. Definitely! I'm out, Eli Piltz From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 22:17:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA19310 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 22:17:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from [207.160.174.20] (HELO [207.160.174.20]) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.2.4) with ESMTP id 100062 for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2000 11:32:15 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 16:34:20 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle World Champion From: Derrick Fogle To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20000901201334.21626.qmail@web2006.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org on 9/1/00 3:13 PM, Eli Piltz at ezshredz@yahoo.com wrote: > general. The consensus was that use of floor > space is rediculous, since lots of roaming might > not be what a freestyler wants to express with > his/her routine- it's really just an old > preference, useless by today's standards of play. > Wulff wrote: >> Just don't lose the >> attention of the crowd and WOW the FUCK out of >> em!!... NON STOP! It CAN I guess that's why I note that I still study at the old school footbag u. I can routinely get college students to stop and watch me kick on campus. By running all over a 1,000 sq ft area, going up and down steps, without dropping the bag. Not necessarily by doing big add moves. I personally think just standing in one place shredding is lame. Especially when the bag is always set about the same height. I want action, movement, and variety! Just remember that if you can't move around and kick the bag high, there's some old fart out there that can literally kick circles around you while you play. And the crowd would laugh, too - because I can do more than shred - I can clown, too. Just because floor planes and travel seems to have become a lost skill, doesn't mean it should have become lost, or continue to be lost. ------------------------------------------ Derrick "Funky Chicken" Fogle Still studying at the Old School Footbag U From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 22:22:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA19323 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 22:22:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17711 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 20:39:37 -0700 Received: from earthlink.net (pool0115.cvx16-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.50.115]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10342 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 20:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39AF253C.FD60F392@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 20:40:44 -0700 From: Chris Pinkus X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle footbag Subject: Re: [freestyle] backflip?!?! References: <20000901013814.8720.qmail@web4005.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org That would be cool. I think that if a spin is worth 1 add, then a backflip should be worth at least 1 or maybe 2 adds in the [bod] category. By the way, I have a question for all the advanced freestylers. If I were to Stall the footbag in a "squeeze" (kung-fu style), then drop it immediately into a flying clipper, would it be considered 2 moves or 1 (since the flying clipper isnt "set")? Or would the squeeze be the setting move for the flying clipper? Chris Pinkus Bobby Fournier wrote: > Hey all shredders, > I was downtown shredding when I decided to do > something off the ledge like we've recently been > discussing, and I've always been able to do a backflip > or frontflip off a ledge, I was tinquering with it > hacking, i toe delayed it, flipped it up high behing > me and then backflipped and almost caught it with > another toe delay, and now that I can do backflips on > level ground, I was wondering if any of you would > consider trying it as a move?!?! > > Bob-Y From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 1 22:26:00 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA19357 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 22:26:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1306.mail.yahoo.com (web1306.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.156]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA05193 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 14:46:52 -0700 Received: (qmail 21081 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Sep 2000 21:46:46 -0000 Message-ID: <20000901214646.21080.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.168.248.1] by web1306.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 01 Sep 2000 14:46:46 PDT Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 14:46:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Reply-To: janejones2000@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] St Charles Shred Fest Footbag Tournament To: James Risden , freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sweet! I hope she sticks with it and we get to shred with her at a tournament soon! We had an awesome turnout at Worlds this year. Enough women to have more than one round. Who knows, maybe next year we'll even have enough for 2 pools. Adios, Jane James Risden wrote: > --- Brian Parsons wrote: > > > We hope > > you all are planning on > > attending. > > Me too. Be there! > BTW Brain, Im probably gonna be able to go. > > The few female freestylers will probably be happy to > hear that there is a new chick shredder in the works. > Brian's Girlfriend REALLY digs shred, shes got lavers > on the way. This girl hit legover, atw (almost both > sides) both side toe and inside stall in about 10 min. > That's sickening...So LOOKOUT > > Later, > Jamez > > > For video of midwest shredders..... > http://members.xoom.com/shreddined/ > Not much on it yet, but I'm workin on it. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 2 06:21:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA19994 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 06:21:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from fep2.excitehome.net (fep2.excitehome.net [24.0.26.113]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA19991 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 06:21:22 -0700 Received: from [24.16.29.45] by fep2.excitehome.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000902054502.TAWG15061.fep2.excitehome.net@[24.16.29.45]> for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 22:45:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000901201334.21626.qmail@web2006.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20000901201334.21626.qmail@web2006.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 01:44:54 -0400 To: freestyle@list.footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle World Champion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:13 PM -0700 9/1/00, Eli Piltz wrote: >The FOUR CATEGORIES are appropriate- there are two ways I see >possible: first, each judge could take into account all four >categories and award one's own overall score (more difficult IMO), >or second there could be two judges for each category- at the >conclusion of a routine they could input their score into a database >and have a calculation program to give the score. I think you're describing a variant of the "ranked component" judging system. See http://ifc.footbag.org/ >Well, I had a related thought a couple nights ago >and I discussed it with Abshire. How's this, you >have twenty-one seconds to bust the phattest ten >contacts you can. IFC just passed a "phat trick contest" event for tournament directors to use. The limit has not been set, (wording of the section is still pending), but the thinking is that you'd have combos of 2, 3, or 4 tricks. I don't know if 10 makes sense -- but then there's Scott's idea about a diving-like competition called "five point shred". All worth considering... Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 2 23:25:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20834 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 23:25:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matthew Cross Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.7]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05357 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 15:00:13 -0700 Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id z.d3.9673f09 (15889) for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 17:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web27.aolmail.aol.com (web27.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.3]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.11) with ESMTP; Fri, 01 Sep 2000 17:59:34 -0400 Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 17:59:33 EDT Subject: [freestyle] women players To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown Message-ID: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dear Jane and Others, Just a quick update from the university of Rochester in Rochester NY, I've got a regular group of footbag players every night, and one female player with a LOT of potential. Her name is Gwen Olton, and she's been a soccer and hack player for a while now. She has great control with both legs, and I've got her trying delays. We've got to get her some lavers, but that can be put off for a little while (I'll keep on her, though ;) ). I can't wait to see how she turns out, I gave her my kanga from worlds, and she seems to be putting it to good use. Wish me luck in the fruition of a full footbag club, Matthew Cross In a message dated Fri, 1 Sep 2000 5:52:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jane Jones writes: << Sweet! I hope she sticks with it and we get to shred with her at a tournament soon! We had an awesome turnout at Worlds this year. Enough women to have more than one round. Who knows, maybe next year we'll even have enough for 2 pools. Adios, Jane James Risden wrote: > --- Brian Parsons wrote: > > > We hope > > you all are planning on > > attending. > > Me too. Be there! > BTW Brain, Im probably gonna be able to go. > > The few female freestylers will probably be happy to > hear that there is a new chick shredder in the works. > Brian's Girlfriend REALLY digs shred, shes got lavers > on the way. This girl hit legover, atw (almost both > sides) both side toe and inside stall in about 10 min. > That's sickening...So LOOKOUT > > Later, > Jamez > > > For video of midwest shredders..... > http://members.xoom.com/shreddined/ > Not much on it yet, but I'm workin on it. >> From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 2 23:27:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20845 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 23:27:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mpinet.net (pop.mpinet.net [216.53.130.12]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08003 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 17:40:44 -0700 Received: from mpinet.net (216-53-151-100.ppp.mpinet.net [216.53.151.100]) by mpinet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02664; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 20:40:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39B04081.A3697D3C@mpinet.net> Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 19:49:21 -0400 From: Joe Richter X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Reid CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Over 30 freestyle References: <001d01c01359$02332fe0$0b01010a@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dave, Do it while you're still 30, man! Your knees will hold out... I'll copy the whole list with this - All of the youngsters can laugh at the old buzzard! You've got great hope as a 30 year old beginner!!! I had much the same story, but with a curve, because I actually first kicked a footbag when I was 18 (darn, 18 years ago!), and I was just a periodic "kicker" for a few years after that. At that time (and even now) there wasn't a lot of interest in footbagging in central Texas! Then I went through a long period where I didn't kick at all - as a matter of fact, until after I turned 30 years old - a little more than 6 years ago. At that time I hooked up with some friends in Dallas who also enjoyed kicking. But, we were *just* kicking (i.e. no stalls; no tricks). And then the WWW led us to meet the developing Dallas Footbag Club (here's where the accolades need to go out to James Roberts, Matt Strong, Derric Scalf, and Eric Burgess - Thanks for teaching me and kicking with me people! And the rest of the guys in Dallas too!) After watching/kicking with/learning from people like that, I felt like I reached a decent level a couple of years ago (33 to 34 years old). Able to (sometimes) link together pretty good strings of 3-adds; And I finally hit a few flimsy Torques and Ripwalks. Certainly no "shred monster" or "open level competitor". But still, my current level of kicking is certainly much better than I ever would have DREAMED possible when I was 30. So, I guess all this winds down to advice from an "old" 36-year-old dude : 1) DO IT NOW WHILE YOU'RE STILL A (YOUNG) 30-YEAR-OLD PUP!!! 2) If you can hook up with some footbaggers who are as good as the DFC members I was lucky enough to hook up with, let them show you the way. You will be doing tricks that you never dreamed possible for your 'old' tired body if you are lucky enough to get with people who will show you how to do it, and that make you want to try to do it. Have fun with it man. Dave Reid wrote: > I am looking for advice from the older freestylers out there. Is there hope > for someone who is a beginner at 30? I have no dreams of becoming a shred > monster or an open level competitor. I just want to have fun, stay in > shape, and maybe compete at the intermediate level. > > Any late starters out there that can give me some encouragement? Am I > foolish? Will my knees hold out? Any words of advice? > > Cheers, > Dave Regards, Joe Richter jrichter@mpinet.net From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 2 23:29:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20857 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 23:29:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA12460 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 21:53:05 -0700 Received: (qmail 28048 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Sep 2000 05:06:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20000902050626.28047.qmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.207.155] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 01 Sep 2000 22:06:26 PDT Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 22:06:26 -0700 (PDT) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle World Champion To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Derrick Fogle > I > can routinely get college students to stop and watch > me kick on campus. By > running all over a 1,000 sq ft area, going up and > down steps, without > dropping the bag. Not necessarily by doing big add > moves. Whats so impressive about that? > Just because floor planes and travel seems to have > become a lost skill, WHAA? Showing no control has become a lost skill? I think by doing all these stupid "crowd pleaser" moves, we are attracting the WRONG crowd. A question for all you top shredders out there... Did any of you start freestyling cause you saw a guy walk up a flight of stairs kicking a footbag or bust a backflip with a footbag? Handstand sole stall? I may not be a top shredder yet, but I started shreddin' cause I like dex's, spins, and stalls. I was never impressed with any pendulem or neck stall. Floor space sux. hehe Later, Jamez Im just waiting to get dogged From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 2 23:47:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20989 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 23:47:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Josh Childs Received: from imo-r16.mx.aol.com (imo-r16.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29846 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 16:05:31 -0700 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo-r16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id r.a5.aa92a62 (6963); Sat, 2 Sep 2000 19:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 19:04:48 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle World Champion To: cloudriz@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 9/2/2000 3:55:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cloudriz@yahoo.com writes: > WHAA? Showing no control has become a lost skill? > I think by doing all these stupid "crowd pleaser" > moves, we are attracting the WRONG crowd. it's not a lack of controll, it's a display of control, how is being able to walk up a flight of stair not a display of control? and i recall seeing guys playing "hackey sack" and i was more impressed with their ability to move around than their ability to shred. the ability to do the dex, and spins not as cool because i didn't have a concept of difficulty. so ya see we're not attracting the wrong crowd, we're just getting our foot in the door so to speak. is there such a thing as a wrong crowd in freestyle? > I may not be a top shredder yet, but I started > shreddin' cause I like dex's, spins, and stalls. I > was never impressed with any pendulem or neck stall. why wouldn't you be impressed by these tricks? someone spent a lot of time to learn these tricks, anyone that is willing spend that much time to learn to control their body that well is worth being impressed over. Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 3 15:03:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21991 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 15:03:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f277.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.152]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30256 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 16:41:53 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 16:41:17 -0700 Received: from 142.177.206.117 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 02 Sep 2000 23:41:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [142.177.206.117] From: "Brian Hines" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] knees..... Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 23:41:17 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2000 23:41:17.0234 (UTC) FILETIME=[49D34120:01C01537] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey guys, I am only 16 and I seem to have bad nees, I have been playing the sport for about 6 monthes(freestyle 4 months) and now my knees hurt after some sessons, I kick almost everyday, I was wondering if there was any special exercises that I could do to increase my knee endurence, I want to play the sport for years to come but I doubt I will if this keeps up..... if you have anything that could help, plese reply Brian Hines http://footbag.cjb.net From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 3 15:04:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22001 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 15:04:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Tom Kotsakos Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.8]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30667 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 17:26:39 -0700 Received: from Honycherub@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id z.d0.a998ce1 (3960) for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:26:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:26:00 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Move and move name history To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all. I was wondering about stories behind moves and move names. Who were creators of certain moves, or the first people to hit them. Also if there are any cool stories about move name origins too. Tom Kotsakos Chicago Inner Circle From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 3 15:07:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22014 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 15:07:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saturn.wwc.edu (IDENT:postfix@saturn.wwc.edu [199.236.178.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31887 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 19:12:47 -0700 Received: from nebo.wwc (nebo.wwc [10.82.5.1]) by saturn.wwc.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 422B470248 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 19:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WWC-Message_Server by nebo.wwc with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 02 Sep 2000 19:12:40 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 17:54:33 -0700 From: "Erik Engeberg" To: Subject: [freestyle] you all gotta try this Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id CAA21136 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Im sure someone has tried this before, but without a doubt the best form of freestyle has got to be naked-shred. So free and liberating and the best part is that the [hacky] sack never gets caught up or tangled in your shorts. I laughed my ass off when i tried a ripwalk, got through the stepping part but set the bag too high and hit my other bag if you know what i mean. I wish i knew some girls who liked naked-shred. -Erik From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 3 15:08:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22019 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 15:08:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1701.mail.yahoo.com (web1701.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.212]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA32543 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:08:36 -0700 Received: (qmail 23329 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Sep 2000 03:13:19 -0000 Message-ID: <20000903031319.23328.qmail@web1701.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.255.208.110] by web1701.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 02 Sep 2000 20:13:19 PDT Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:13:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Shaun Marques Subject: [freestyle] New move(s)... Maybe To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey stylers, Being a novice shredder, I took some time in saving the videos off of the website (temporary internet files), and decided to do something. Apparently people have already slo-mo rewinded moves in videos to come up with other moves, and I did the same thing. For the video clips for Blurriest and Scorpion's Tail, try rewinding them.. I'm not sure, but Blurriest appears to be a Pogo set Barraging Butterfly in its rewinded form: clip> (no plant while) op in [dex]> same in [dex]> op out [dex]> op clip [xbd] [del] While Scorpion's Tail appears to be a Pogo set Barroque: clip> (no plant while) op in [dex]> same in [dex]> op osis [bod] [xbd] [del] Has anyone tried these two moves? It would be DREAMY for me to hit these, considering I'm not that good (but apt to get better one of these days), so, somebody try slo-mo rewinding the clips and tell me if I'm right or wrong (I'm sure someone's thought of this already, or either these moves are thought of and unspoken). Later. Piece, Shaun M. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 3 15:10:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22032 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 15:10:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f166.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.166]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32685 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:13:21 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:12:45 -0700 Received: from 205.188.196.27 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 03 Sep 2000 03:12:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [205.188.196.27] From: "Bryan Fournier" To: cloudriz@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle World Champion Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 20:12:45 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Sep 2000 03:12:45.0553 (UTC) FILETIME=[D4A71610:01C01554] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org James Risden wrote: > > Just because floor planes and travel seems to have > > become a lost skill, > >WHAA? Showing no control has become a lost skill? >I think by doing all these stupid "crowd pleaser" >moves, we are attracting the WRONG crowd. > >A question for all you top shredders out there... >Did any of you start freestyling cause you saw a guy >walk up a flight of stairs kicking a footbag or bust a >backflip with a footbag? Handstand sole stall? > >I may not be a top shredder yet, but I started >shreddin' cause I like dex's, spins, and stalls. I >was never impressed with any pendulem or neck stall. > >Floor space sux. hehe >Later, >Jamez Im just waiting to get dogged Go easy Mr. Risden...you're bashing a guy whose been kicking prooooooo-bably longer than you've been alive... so know your role. As far as attracting a crowd...when and where was "your" last street performance? How much experience have you had performing for the general public? Anyways just some brain food...later on... ~Bryan Fournier OOPS! Footbag Club Hermosa Beach, CA ** http://www.penny-lane.com/oops From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 3 15:11:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22043 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 15:11:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f275.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.240.53]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01009 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:53:06 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:52:30 -0700 Received: from 207.245.220.252 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 03 Sep 2000 03:52:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.245.220.252] From: "Mike Del Borrello" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] X GAMES coverage Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 23:52:30 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Sep 2000 03:52:30.0490 (UTC) FILETIME=[622F97A0:01C0155A] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org See!! that's the spirit. I say we do this since "we" have never REALLY tried to do anything else before (except worlds). This could change the entire direction of the sport as we know it, and people could start getting sponsored and maybe even payed for just "having fun" shredding. I'm telling you, get to it and make some e-mails to the ESPN Network, slap it in their face along with a copy of Eric Wulff's e-mail because I thought it was pretty "in your face". we can do it...... regards... o o \_/ Mike D | A.K.A. :(SNAKEeYES): ^ Eric Wulff wrote: >On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:11:39 -0800, Cameron Kennedy wrote: > > >I think a different sort of festival will eventually link up > >footbag with some similar sports.(eg. juggling , freestyle > >frisbee(flying disk?), etc > >For many years footbag and frisbee were promoted together in Whamo's >Hacky-Sack & Frisbee festivals. That is how many footbaggers learned about >the game and got their start. Of course, this was not nearly on the scale >of the X-Games. Anyway, my point here is that footbag freestyle is >definitely an Extreme Alternative sport. Net is also but I'm restricting >my response to freestyle for obvious reasons. Juggling and frisbee take an >enormous amount of technical skill and dexterity but do not require the >level of physical conditioning which freestyle does. Freestyle beats on >you... freestyle hits back. Unfortunately it is not Extreme in the way >that sells in the eyes of those behind the X-Games, Gravity Games etc. But >I think that could change and I think footbag freestyle would TOTALLY fit & >sell in the X-Games format. X-Games records, cuts and edits all its events >for later broadcast. Qualifying competitors could do freestyle routines >and/or shred with virtually NO delay between competitors. All is recorded >for later viewing and judging. NON-STOP EXTREME ACTION is the key... it >doesn't necessarily have to be life threatening. Just don't lose the >attention of the crowd and WOW the FUCK out of em!!... NON STOP! It CAN >be done and that is how all freestyle events should be run. Learn from the >shred contest... people who weren't even footbaggers kept saying they >liked the shred contest at Worlds because it was NON STOP... no waiting >for the judges to finish a score which DOESN'T EVEN GET TABULATED UNTIL >EVERYONE HAS LEFT ALREADY ANYWAY. NON STOP ACTION PACKED ENTERTAINMENT >WITH LOTS OF THINGS THE CROWD CAN DEBATE ABOUT... CONTROVERSY OVER WHO DID >BETTER ETC. IT'S BEAUTIFUL and it would ABSOLUTELY SELL... LOTS OF THINGS >CAN BE SOLD AROUND FOOTBAG. It's becoming a lifestyle for more and more >people all the time... that means there are more and more people willing >to pay for it and there will be more and more media willing to invest in >it. WE JUST HAVE TO PUT IT IN THEIR FACE SOMEHOW... the media that is. > >Eric > > From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 3 15:13:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22060 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 15:13:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ego.mind.net (IDENT:mail@ego.mind.net [206.99.66.9]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01220 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 21:08:29 -0700 Received: from oemcomputer (ip232.mind.net [206.151.159.164]) by ego.mind.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA08213 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 21:08:21 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c0155d$0286bba0$a49f97ce@oemcomputer> From: "Forest Schrodt" To: Subject: [freestyle] Worlds results?? Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 21:11:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Anyone know where I can find the full break down of worlds? Are the full results going to be posted soon? Forest From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 3 15:15:37 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22072 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 15:15:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Ted Quinn Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30105 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 16:26:59 -0700 Received: from TQuinn6050@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id z.7a.9c22f3d (4543) for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 19:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7a.9c22f3d.26e2e620@aol.com> Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 19:24:16 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle World Champion To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 28 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have seen Derek Fogle perform his skills since 93' Midwest tourney. >From the get go, I thought his style was like any other! He has a unique style and very pleasing to ones eye:). Back then he had the Osis nailed like a monkey. I have that tourney's final on video and can say I still put it on to watch his routine. He's all funky Chickenish:). So, when it comes to anyone saying anything wrong about his style or what he does to attract crowds, that is just wrong! This guy is a legend in the sport IMO. Since I never post here, Kick mainly by myself in San Diego now, and never have hit World's, I still think of the old Prospect Park days when Derek would impress me! His wife ain't to shabby either:). Thanks for letting myself finally post, Ted From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 3 15:16:37 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22078 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 15:16:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from alastair.tir.com (alastair.tir.com [216.40.128.69]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30940 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 17:45:36 -0700 Received: from jaymolde (port43.mico30.tir.com [216.40.141.228]) by alastair.tir.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA01613 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:44:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005301c01541$3e7b4f20$e48d28d8@jaymolde> From: "Jay Moldenhauer" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Over 30 freestyle Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:52:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Dave, My name is Jay Moldenhauer and I retired from competition in 1994. I was 37 yrs old at the time. I would say yes, you could start and have a lot of fun. Just heed the advice of the listserve. Stretch and practice on both sides. Mainly have fun. Hope this helps. Jayman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Reid" To: Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 10:37 AM Subject: [freestyle] Over 30 freestyle > I am looking for advice from the older freestylers out there. Is > there hope for someone who is a beginner at 30? I have no dreams of > becoming a shred monster or an open level competitor. I just want > to have fun, stay in shape, and maybe compete at the intermediate > level. > > Any late starters out there that can give me some encouragement? Am > I foolish? Will my knees hold out? Any words of advice? > > Cheers, Dave From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 3 15:28:42 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22119 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 15:28:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22116 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 15:28:41 -0700 Received: from fep1.excitehome.net (fep1.excitehome.net [24.0.26.112]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11988 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 07:52:29 -0700 Received: from [24.16.29.47] ([24.16.29.34]) by fep1.excitehome.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000903145213.NFNG24346.fep1.excitehome.net@[24.16.29.47]> for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 07:52:13 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000a01c0155d$0286bba0$a49f97ce@oemcomputer> References: <000a01c0155d$0286bba0$a49f97ce@oemcomputer> Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 10:45:59 -0400 To: From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Worlds results?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:11 PM -0700 9/2/00, Forest Schrodt wrote: >Anyone know where I can find the full break down of worlds? Are the >full results going to be posted soon? Compiling the full results and getting them online always takes a while, unfortunately. I wish that weren't the case but it is. Bear with us. Believe me, the second the results are completely final, you'll be told. But, for now, we do have the freestyle results in a reasonably readable format (thanks to Vince) temporarily at: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~rvbpaco/WorldsFreestyleDirectory.html Since it's a work in progress I can't vouch for its correctness just now. (I'm at Funtastik, as is Vince. :-)) Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 3 15:57:58 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22163 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 15:57:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22160 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 15:57:57 -0700 Received: from fep2.excitehome.net (fep2.excitehome.net [24.0.26.113]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12357 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 08:21:45 -0700 Received: from [24.16.29.47] ([24.16.29.40]) by fep2.excitehome.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000903152131.WQFD15061.fep2.excitehome.net@[24.16.29.47]> for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 08:21:31 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 11:04:03 -0400 To: From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Worlds results?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Addendum: I wrote: >http://www.wam.umd.edu/~rvbpaco/WorldsFreestyleDirectory.html I have to clarify that, for whatever obscure reason I'll never understand, Brent Welch (who wrote the software we use for freestyle judging) refers to "contacts" as "kicks". I guess it fits better. So when you read the results at the link above, until we can fix it, please remember that the column "kicks" is mislabelled. It should be "contacts". And for those of you who have not attended a judging clinic in recent years, let me explain that "contacts" are also misnamed. :-) The real concept of a contact is best described by the phrase "number of attempted tricks" (where "tricks" are at least 1 add, so plain kicks and "flourishes" are not counted for this particular statistic). The reason we count contacts is to get a sense of the average difficulty of a routine in terms of the average adds per trick attempted (or, "adds/contacts"). Obviously, this means you're penalized for trying tricks you don't actually hit, since the denominator goes up by 1 while the numerator stays constant if you miss a given trick. Just a little formula-based judging system tutorial for you. :-) Now, hopefully we won't ever use this system again so this is just to help you interpret the results from Worlds. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 4 18:58:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24209 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 18:58:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15646 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 11:53:01 -0700 Received: from earthlink.net (pool0100.cvx16-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.50.100]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13953 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 11:52:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39B29E4D.62F27470@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 11:54:05 -0700 From: Chris Pinkus X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle footbag Subject: Re: [freestyle] knees..... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Brian, Could be one of two things. 1) You are at the age (about 13-16) where growth plates in your joints will separate so you can grow. During this time your joints will hurt while you do any sort of strenuous excersises (I broke my elbow during this time). So all you can do there is let your joints do what they are trying to do, so just be careful. 16 is way too young to have bad knees. 2) I also started getting pains because my knees weren't flexible enough, but after a few more months of playing the pains just went away. So it could also be your knee flexibility. Hope this helps, Chris Pinkus Brian Hines wrote: > hey guys, > > I am only 16 and I seem to have bad nees, I have been playing the sport for > about 6 monthes(freestyle 4 months) and now my knees hurt after some > sessons, I kick almost everyday, > > I was wondering if there was any special exercises that I could do to > increase my knee endurence, I want to play the sport for years to come but I > doubt I will if this keeps up..... > > if you have anything that could help, plese reply > > Brian Hines > http://footbag.cjb.net From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 4 18:58:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24214 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 18:58:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17375 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 13:31:24 -0700 Received: from default - 63.11.191.67 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 13:30:04 -0700 Message-ID: <005a01c015e5$b506f500$43bf0b3f@default> From: "Tina Lewis" To: "James Risden" , References: <20000902050626.28047.qmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle World Champion Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 15:26:36 -0500 Organization: Microsoft Corporation X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi All, this discussion shows the room and need for different freestyle events. The shred is amazing and something that footbag players can truly appreciate... once you know what is going on. To the average person who has never seen footbag or just has a basic knowledge of "hacky sack " the performance aspect and moving around and controlling that bag over large spaces is incredibily impressive. When I approach a P.E. teacher to do a demo I don't need to shred I just need to show basic skill and a few basic tricks and they are hooked! The kids are amazed! Those who know me know I'm a net player but I want to attract more players to the sport and the way to do that is to develop each and every aspect of the sport, including all disciplines of freestyle - shred and performance. There is room for both. As a member of IFC I have seen the frustration with the freestylers struggling with the rules and debating shred vs. performance. I appreciate both but my focus as an IFC member is growing the sport and I see the need for both skills and to encourage all aspects (even golf :-). We can have more than one freestyle event just like skating and gymnastics. I don't think there is any "wrong" kind of player or person to attract to "our" sport and we should welcome everyone who approaches it from whatever discipline or whatever approach. Shred on and teach some little kids how to do a lap catch! Tina. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 4 19:22:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24296 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 19:22:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f254.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.129]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20362 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 16:19:32 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 16:18:56 -0700 Received: from 63.79.39.217 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 03 Sep 2000 23:18:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.79.39.217] From: "Brad Nelson" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Intermediate Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 19:18:56 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Sep 2000 23:18:56.0308 (UTC) FILETIME=[54FBEF40:01C015FD] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was wondering how good the average intermediate competitor is. I was thinking about competing soon and wondered what kind of moves they hit often. Are they a lot of 4-adds or what? I can hit a few of those, but not a whole lot. I have never been to a tournament so I don't know if I have a chance of doing well. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 4 19:23:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24307 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 19:23:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web4603.mail.yahoo.com (web4603.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.105.158]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA00987 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 03:21:06 -0700 Message-ID: <20000904102029.13864.qmail@web4603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.97.2.247] by web4603.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 04 Sep 2000 03:20:29 PDT Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 03:20:29 -0700 (PDT) From: john kingi Subject: [freestyle] Help on info. To: Freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all shredders out there. I was wondering if anybody could help me on finding some information about afew things. Firstly anything to do with the origins of footbag, the add system(Its creators etc), The judging systems at compititions and a few other bits and pieces. Also info on how one becomes a member of the B.A.P crew and roughly how many members there are. If anyone feels they could help, please reply in person as i wouldn't want to bore everybody else on the list(not that I concider this info boring). Also something someone can answer on the list is, why does a blizzard qualify for a Paradox add when its 'paradox' dexterity is done from out to in? Another move that confuses me in terms of qualifying for a pdx add is the toe set Whirlwind. If anyone could explain why a toe set move gets a pdx that would be cool(I have read the pdx section in the elements). Cheers, Johnny Kingi From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 4 19:24:58 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24318 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 19:24:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f159.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.159]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02900 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 03:58:19 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 03:57:43 -0700 Received: from 128.214.152.33 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Sep 2000 10:57:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.214.152.33] From: "Samuli Viitanen" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle World Champion Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 10:57:43 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20000902050626.28047.qmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Sep 2000 10:57:43.0415 (UTC) FILETIME=[F37CC070:01C0165E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >- --- Derrick Fogle > > I > > can routinely get college students to stop and watch > > me kick on campus. By > > running all over a 1,000 sq ft area, going up and > > down steps, without > > dropping the bag. Not necessarily by doing big add > > moves. James Risden > >Whats so impressive about that? ok. i'll bug into this discussion. on my opinion just keeping a bag in air by simply kicking it is very impressive to most people who have never EVER seen footbag before. like here in finland, where we've had the sport about five years, many people are very amazed and impressed if they just see hackers kicking a bag in a circle which they've not seen before. and they're curious about too; they want to know what in the world are we doing. >A question for all you top shredders out there... >Did any of you start freestyling cause you saw a guy >walk up a flight of stairs kicking a footbag or bust a >backflip with a footbag? Handstand sole stall? > >I may not be a top shredder yet, but I started >shreddin' cause I like dex's, spins, and stalls. I >was never impressed with any pendulem or neck stall. well... i ain't also no BAP-class shredder, but let me tell you my story: my interest towards footbag began when i saw a friend of mine just kicking it in school. he had some contorl and was able to keep it in air and i were never the same again. i even didn't know tricks existed but i was very happy when i got my own sack and were able to learn something new and unusual (in finland). and now i can do tricks:) > >Floor space sux. hehe it does NOT. hehe. -Samuli Viitanen -finnishredder@footbag.org ps. i'd like also to congratulate all the winners in freestyle at worlds 2k this year, especially Jere 'the mouseman' Linnanen!! you're the man. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 5 19:22:18 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26040 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 19:22:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18213; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 15:59:46 -0700 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000904225930.BWKH10467.kuku.excite.com@chilly.excite.com>; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 15:59:30 -0700 Message-ID: <1495303.968108369982.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 15:59:29 -0700 (PDT) From: yorghos carabas To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org, EENEO@excite.com, perfectanarchy@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] backflip?!?! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 131.216.93.12 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org wow, i got a lot of flack from everyone just cause i didn't like the back flip idea; maybe keeping my mouth shut would have been a better idea. But just to let you know how i was seeing it: throwing a bag up really high, and doing a flip is not how i see footbag. i'm all for new tricks, but just think back to how long it took you to learn butterfly, and perform it smoothly. It took a lot of practice to learn the right height, and to be able let the bag land softly on your foot after it passed at the right height trough your leg. Now think of what is needed to do a backflip > toe . first you need to learn how to launch it high and toe stall it (not too tough for people who have been freestyling for a while), and then backflip. The only reason you might drop the bag on this trick is cause you lose your balance after the flip, or because you have to "spot" the bag as soon as you land; in that sense it is a difficult move. I'm not trying to start a big fuss, i just felt like giving my two-cents. I thought thats why it was a community disscussion, not a community agreement. I was simply proposing a different point of view; no reason for everyone to jump down my throat. _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 5 19:29:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26092 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 19:29:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from [207.160.174.20] (HELO [207.160.174.20]) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.2.4) with ESMTP id 100787 for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Tue, 05 Sep 2000 07:25:53 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 12:28:06 -0500 Subject: [freestyle] Floors, Planes, Travel From: Derrick Fogle To: Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org My rather grumpy reply to James was supposed to have made a point... Command of space is a useful skill. You have to use space to command it. When you can command space, you can kick in heavy traffic, public venues, thereby exposing lots of people to footbag freestyle. ------------------------------------------ Derrick "Funky Chicken" Fogle Still studying at the Old School Footbag U From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 7 03:48:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA28086 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 03:48:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15213; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 17:03:31 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G0F02J01UTM9Y@clem.mscd.edu>; Tue, 05 Sep 2000 18:03:23 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 18:03:22 -0600 (MDT) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] backflip?!?! In-reply-to: <1495303.968108369982.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> To: yorghos carabas Cc: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org, perfectanarchy@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, yorghos carabas wrote: > wow, i got a lot of flack from everyone just cause i didn't like the back > flip idea; maybe keeping my mouth shut would have been a better idea. Yep! :) > But just to let you know how i was seeing it: throwing a bag up really > high, and doing a flip is not how i see footbag. That's great, but what If I don't see footbag as a freestyle thing at all but as a game only hippies with long dreads and dirty bare feet play in communal circles of up to 30 people. Or what if that little bag really has nothing to do with any of this at all and we're really just another part of the Dancing community. Kicking our legs around and waving our arms to the rhythm of whatever tunes we have on. As a matter of fact maybe I don't think ducking under a footbag is really a move. All your really doing is throwing the bag at your face and getting out of the way before it hits you. Really now, this whole footbag thing is a sham. All we're doing is figuring out how to avoid a bean bag (or bead or sand) while flinging our body parts around it. > i'm all for new tricks, And backflip> toe is a trick. > but just think back to how long it took you to learn butterfly, and perform > it smoothly. It took a lot of practice to learn the right height, and to be > able let the bag land softly on your foot after it passed at the right > height trough your leg. Now think of what is needed to do a backflip > toe > . first you need to learn how to launch it high and toe stall it (not too > tough for people who have been freestyling for a while), and then backflip. > The only reason you might drop the bag on this trick is cause you lose your > balance after the flip, or because you have to "spot" the bag as soon as you > land; in that sense it is a difficult move. Brother you just defined the learning of every single trick in the sport. Balance, accuracy, finesse, imagination and perseverance are only some of the things which make this sport the great thing that it is. Nobody wants 7 adds to be the end of it all how about 8,9,10. This sport is only limited by it's players. If you don't want to take the time to learn a backflip then don't, it's okay I probably won't either, but the movement of a body around the bag or with it is what you do in this sport. especially if this is only the beginning of the whole backflip thing. I hope to see it get bigger and for Bobby Fournier to hit backflip Paradon. YEAH!!! > I'm not trying to start a big > fuss, i just felt like giving my two-cents. I thought thats why it was a > community disscussion, not a community agreement. I was simply proposing a > different point of view; no reason for everyone to jump down my throat. We're all writing words here and there's no way to know how the person on the other end will perceive them. It's all in the way you said it, not necessarily what you said. Steve has corrected me on this a thousand times and I still suck at it. So think about how you are writing things and be wise. And that's my 3 cents. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 7 03:48:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA28081 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 03:48:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from davisbrody.com (mail.davisbrody.com [205.253.194.181]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09798 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 13:41:38 -0700 Received: from davisbrody.com [209.73.237.244] by davisbrody.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.04) id AB1AF50156; Tue, 05 Sep 2000 16:44:10 EDT Message-ID: <39B55A43.4766B377@davisbrody.com> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 16:40:35 -0400 From: Bruce Dole X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] freestyle "dis"cussion References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Here's yet another two cents aimed at no one in particular, There's been a lot of discussion about what moves are "cool" and what styles are valid, and I think that discussion is healthy... but lets be serious here. No one is an expert on what's not freestyle. The definition is open, and includes LOTS of different styles, hence the term "free", get it? So when I hear people putting each other down or making negative comments about someone's style, I get kind of pissed off. We (meaning all freestyle footbaggers) are in the unusual position of practicing a sport that has few established rules and is largely unknown to the world at large, a sport in it's infancy, and it's up to all of us to make sure that this sport "grows up right". I think that the central and most important facet of freestyle, and therefore the part of it that must be protected, is the fact that it allows people to demonstrate their individuality in an amazingly physical, graceful way. And if we all played the same way, I would stop playing, period. Again, all of this is just my opinion, feel free to disagree (I would be a hypocrite to say anything else), but I think we have to make sure not to limit the scope of this sport, in any way. If you want to move around when you play, move. If you want to back flip, back flip (but don't land on your head). If you want to play naked, go for it. Do NEW things, YOUR things, the way YOU want to do them, and don't let anyone else tell you it's not freestyle. If you're doing something funky with a footbag and your feet, chances are pretty good that you're freestyling... and more power to you if it's something that no one has ever done before, that's means you're UNIQUE. And those people that put your style down?...they're a dime a dozen. Sorry for the preaching, Bruce Dole (New York Footbag Association) Derrick Fogle wrote: > My rather grumpy reply to James was supposed to have made a point... > > Command of space is a useful skill. You have to use space to command it. > When you can command space, you can kick in heavy traffic, public venues, > thereby exposing lots of people to footbag freestyle. > > ------------------------------------------ > Derrick "Funky Chicken" Fogle > Still studying at the Old School Footbag U From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 7 03:50:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA28105 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 03:50:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f65.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.65]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19180 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 20:20:53 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 20:20:15 -0700 Received: from 210.223.219.224 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Sep 2000 03:20:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [210.223.219.224] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] backflip?!?! Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 03:20:15 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Sep 2000 03:20:15.0742 (UTC) FILETIME=[6039B9E0:01C017B1] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org yorghos carabas wrote: >wow, i got a lot of flack from everyone just cause i didn't like the back >flip idea; maybe keeping my mouth shut would have been a better idea. Well, if you can't say anything nice... I think set>back flip>toe is as much a trick as, say, flying inside. I think it would fun to see if anyone can do something with this, like forward flipping into butterfly, or back flipping and straight into an eclypse (just seeing if Steve can resist telling me I miss-spelled that;). -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 7 03:51:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA28117 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 03:51:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from sfo.jsishipping.com (jsishipping.com [207.33.33.34]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21433 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:33:46 -0700 Received: from sfofw1.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.36]) by sfo.jsishipping.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-64750U500L500S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:32:16 -0700 Message-ID: <39B5D61B.185BF58F@jsishipping.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 22:29:00 -0700 From: Eric Wulff X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle World Champion Ranking Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is absolutely ludicrous... Steve said... >In fact, my longer-term goal in introducing shred was to do away with >routines altogether. Who introduced shred? >I think we need them for a while (and routines >like I saw at Worlds this year make me want to ensure they don't >disappear entirely) You want to ensure? >, but I would like to de-emphasize them and get >rid of them at tournaments. They're more for showcasing the sport >(like pro figure skating) than serious competitive forums [sic]. I'd >like to see us embrace the fact FACT!? Dude... I am right in the thick of the action and I see this as FAR from a fact. >that freestyle footbag has become a >very technical discipline, NO WAY!!!! I'd like to see us RE-EMPHASIZE the fact that freestyle is style and expression AT LEAST as much as it is technical. Freestyle is a creative art which can be very technical. That is the beauty of it. To focus exclusively on it's technical or artistic aspects one way or the other is BAD! There are many competitive events like it but none as cool! >like diving or skateboarding, and focus >competitive events on that in the long term. I don't see why we can't >do that sooner rather than later since most of the freestylers who >compete in open today are also extremely technical players. "ALSO" is the key word. "ALSO"... not ONLY TECHNICAL players but "ALSO" technical players. Are you serious Steve?! Really... are you? Eric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 7 03:53:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA28128 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 03:53:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Message-ID: <20000906140657.6662.qmail@web2206.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1495303.968108369982.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Received: from [199.178.180.226] by web2206.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 06 Sep 2000 07:06:57 PDT Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 07:06:57 -0700 (PDT) From: cory current Subject: Re: [freestyle] backflip?!?! To: freestyle@list.footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everybody, yorghos carabas wrote: > wow, i got a lot of flack from everyone just cause i > didn't like the back > flip idea; maybe keeping my mouth shut would have > been a better idea. I don't think you got flack because you didn't like it, I think you got flack because you tried to dis-credit it as a valid move. > But just to let you know how i was seeing it: Here's how I see it: > throwing a bag up really > high, and doing a flip is not how i see footbag. I would be willing to bet that the way *YOU* see footbag is not the way that about 90% of the world sees footbag. (don't worry, that wasn't a shot at you, just saying that the majority of this planet has never seen footbag as we see it.) So, what makes that any different than throwing a bag up really high and doing a spin? Or throwing a bag up a little lower and doing a spin? > It took a lot of practice to learn the > right height, and to be > able let the bag land softly on your foot after it > passed at the right > height trough your leg. So......do a backflip to a butterfly. Or a clipper. Or how 'bout a flyer? would that validate the move any more? What about.....backflip to a spinning flying clipper? > Now think of what is needed > to do a backflip > toe You need a lot more than a toe to do this backflip move. You need a good set, the physical ability just to do a backflip, plus the added physical ability to be able to do it and put yourself in the correct position with enough balance to do the toe stall. the same could be said for spins. > . first you need to learn how to launch it high and > toe stall it Why necessarily launch it high? I think it would be much more impressive (and require a lot more skill) to set it really low and still be able to pull this off. Imagine setting it a foot above head height, backflip, and instantly catching it. *Not* standing there waiting around for it to come out of orbit. You make some good valid points. But every point you're using could also be used to de-bunk spins as well, and spins are a valid and accepted move in our little community. > I'm not > trying to start a big > fuss, i just felt like giving my two-cents. hey, opinions are like as*%#........well, nevermind. > thought thats why it was a > community disscussion, not a community agreement. 'community agreement' is not at all what this place is about. Don't you see all the arguments and debates that constantly go through this list? > was simply proposing a > different point of view; no reason for everyone to > jump down my throat. the only reason that happened is because you chimed in and immediately started saying "That isn't freestyle." "That isn't freestyle." The American Heritage Dictionary defines 'freestyle' as: A competitive event, as swimming, in which the contestant may choose his own style. So, no matter what people are doing when they're kicking a bag, don't discredit them because you don't like what they're doing. Whether it's Derrick 'kicking circles around you' Funky-Chicken Fogle, or whether it's Larry 'blind knee pinch' Doyle with his own 'unique' freestyle, or Matt 'helicopter-spin' Churney with his own 'unique' style, it's ALL freestyle! Don't worry, I'm not trying to start a war, either. I just wanted to chime in with some reasonable logic before the flames began. As many people on this list know, I don't even kick freestyle anymore. Why is it again that I'm posting? -cory From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 7 03:55:15 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA28139 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 03:55:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pseudo (c517473-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.20.24.118]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id e86KFcr27442 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008b01c0183f$878c50a0$0200a8c0@pseudo> From: "Ryan Mulroney" To: References: <20000902050626.28047.qmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: [freestyle] late reply to For James Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:17:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > >I may not be a top shredder yet, but I started > >shreddin' cause I like dex's, spins, and stalls. I > >was never impressed with any pendulem or neck stall. Hey James, I started freestyle because I wanted to be able to do a pendulum. Ryan Mulroney From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 7 03:55:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA28150 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 03:55:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f164.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.164]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06302 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 14:31:57 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 14:31:19 -0700 Received: from 24.226.208.194 by lw4fd.law4.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Sep 2000 21:31:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.226.208.194] From: "Kavin Thiffault" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Sponsors Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 21:31:19 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Sep 2000 21:31:19.0376 (UTC) FILETIME=[CB978D00:01C01849] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everyone, I was wondering how the great freestylers can go at tournaments all over United States and Canada and still have time to work. Maybe some are rich and don'T even have to work, but for the others? Is there a lot of freestylers sponsored ? By who ? I don't know if I could be able to travel a lot with my future career. For now I'm still in college so it'S not a problem, but I'm worried if I could really be into freestyle after. Don't wanna get fired 'cause I missed job for Worlds :P Hope it'S not a silly question Kavin Thiffault From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 7 03:57:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA28162 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 03:57:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [194.221.183.20]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA06578 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 14:41:51 -0700 Received: (qmail 14655 invoked by uid 0); 6 Sep 2000 21:41:11 -0000 Received: from blndi5-212-144-128-121.arcor-ip.net (HELO quarktasche) (212.144.128.121) by mail.gmx.net with SMTP; 6 Sep 2000 21:41:11 -0000 Message-ID: <001f01c0184b$0cfe9a80$798090d4@quarktasche> From: "Matthias Lino Schmidt" To: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Intermediate Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 23:40:17 +0200 Organization: Schmidt Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Good Morning! Brad Nelson wrote: > I was thinking about competing soon do it............ You will possibly experience a new feeling of shredding (*stage fright*). > and wondered what kind of moves they hit They? They are not one slush....... There are some hitting lots of 4 Add moves, who should better go open, but just do not because they are on their first competition (like European intermediate champ Samuli). There are also many just doing the small 2 Add moves, as I saw them e.g. on the German championships (btw if you wanna see the results: www.footbagfreestyle.de), there are some trying to do both in their routine (maybe like me) and there are some doing no phat tricks but having style and a nice routine... So what do they hit? > I have never been to a tournament so I don't know if I have a > chance of doing well. You will have already done well well when you left the stage, no matter what you did up there.......... -just my 0.02 Deutschmarks ;o)- Anybody has a name for stepping opposite reverse whirl? Yesterday I saw vacuum cleaner bags (where all the dirt gets in) with the brand name "Swirl". .........................Matthias (still intermediate) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 7 03:57:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA28173 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 03:57:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f175.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.175]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07821 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 15:35:46 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 15:35:08 -0700 Received: from 208.22.226.24 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Sep 2000 22:35:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [208.22.226.24] From: "Brad Nelson" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Teachers? Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 18:35:08 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Sep 2000 22:35:08.0997 (UTC) FILETIME=[B6395750:01C01852] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Did any of you learn freestyle by yourself or did you have an experienced player teach you? I wish I lived near a big club with awesome freestylers. Footbag.org is my only guide. Being from where I live, WV(a.k.a the most boring state in the US), I have to work by myself. Well, there are some good points. When I pull off ripwalks and consecutive osises, people around here are sincerely impressed. I don't think it is any big deal. I am not that good(compared to the most of the footbag community anyway), but around here people think that I am BAP worthy. As you can probably tell, I am the only connection to footbag in the whole city. Some of my friends have picked it up too. Only one of them can pull off moves that I can do. So when we go all out at school, we actually gather a tiny crowd. Anyone else have similar experiences with the "ignorant(not meant as an insult)"? Whoops, got off the subject a little. Oh well. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 7 04:30:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA28536 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 04:30:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matt Cross Received: from imo-r14.mx.aol.com (imo-r14.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.68]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14463 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 20:45:06 -0700 Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-r14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id z.57.adf334b (15869) for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 23:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web29.aolmail.aol.com (web29.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.5]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.11) with ESMTP; Wed, 06 Sep 2000 23:44:22 -0400 Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 23:44:22 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] backflip?!?! To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown Message-ID: <57.adf334b.26e86916@aol.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated Wed, 6 Sep 2000 11:17:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Andrew McCargar" writes: > eclypse (just > seeing if Steve can resist telling me I miss-spelled that;). > > -Andrew You misspelled "misspelled." -Matt From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 7 05:03:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA28686 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 05:03:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailgate.novagate.net (IDENT:root@mailgate.novagate.net [205.138.138.22]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15001 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 21:08:43 -0700 Received: from novagate.net (002gra107.chartermi.net [24.247.2.107]) by mailgate.novagate.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id AAA29204; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 00:08:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39B71649.FD7D44E6@novagate.net> Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 00:15:10 -0400 From: ryan masuga Reply-To: masuga@novagate.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brad Nelson CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Teachers? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Brad- I skool freestyle by myself most of the time, which I think is good for burning individual moves and/or combos into your muscle memory. I was recently told by a very good styler that he thought a good way to learn was to kick with someone, "steal" their moves, and then skool them. If you can't kick with anyone, video is a good way to "steal" moves. I download video, watch it in slo-mo, frame by frame, and regular speed and then try to skool what I saw. I don't think most people have the luxury of kicking in a big club with great stylers. I don't, but I go with what I've got and go to tournaments when I can. > When I pull off ripwalks and consecutive > osises, people around here are sincerely impressed. I don't think it is any > big deal. Don't sell yourself short...those are nice moves to have. ryan masuga "maHUGEa" (?) west michigan 3cFD, NYFA From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 7 05:04:12 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA28698 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 05:04:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 21:09:04 -0700 Received: from 216.44.107.126 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Sep 2000 04:09:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [216.44.107.126] From: "Stan Sagalovskiy" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] late reply to For James Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 00:09:04 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <008b01c0183f$878c50a0$0200a8c0@pseudo> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Sep 2000 04:09:04.0391 (UTC) FILETIME=[5C3FD970:01C01881] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org doesn't mean as much coming from me, but i started freestyle when i saw someone to a walk-over. i thought that was ultimate freestyle. that, pendulums, and sole-stalls. stan >From: "Ryan Mulroney" >To: >Subject: [freestyle] late reply to For James >Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:17:49 -0700 > > > >I may not be a top shredder yet, but I started > > >shreddin' cause I like dex's, spins, and stalls. I > > >was never impressed with any pendulem or neck stall. > >Hey James, > I started freestyle because I wanted to be able to do a pendulum. > Ryan Mulroney > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 7 05:04:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA28709 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 05:04:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f259.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.240.36]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15326 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 21:23:48 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 21:23:10 -0700 Received: from 210.223.219.241 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Sep 2000 04:23:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [210.223.219.241] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] The GFFB Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 04:23:10 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Sep 2000 04:23:10.0529 (UTC) FILETIME=[54964310:01C01883] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If you haven't seen it yet, go to www.footbagfreestyle.de and click on 'Videos !!!' on the home page, some cool ctuff, but keep in mind this is competition and not schred. HOWEVER, if you have time, do see the clip of David "der Drachjaeger" Latozky. He does a dragon walk over, dragon dino, dragon osis, sickness. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 7 17:57:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29474 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 17:57:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Brian Parsons Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16104 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:35:15 -0700 Received: from TrollJr22@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id z.48.a5342bb (3843) for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 19:34:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <48.a5342bb.26def406@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 19:34:30 EDT Subject: [freestyle] St Charles Shred Fest Footbag Tournament this weekend To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 111 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What's up all shredders? This is just a reminder that the St Charles footbag tournament is coming up on September 9th. We hope you all are planning on attending. For those of you who are could you please e-mail me at trolljr22@aol.com or Matt at Glfsproket@aol.com and let us know. We hope you can make it and look forward to hearing from you. If you have questions about directions or anything let us know, we will be glad to answer. Thanks, Brian and Matt From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 8 01:12:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA29963 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 01:12:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matthew Cross Received: from imo-r20.mx.aol.com (imo-r20.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.162]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25972 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 06:48:44 -0700 Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-r20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id z.7b.94a3c0d (15880) for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 09:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web44.aolmail.aol.com (web44.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.5]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.11) with ESMTP; Thu, 07 Sep 2000 09:48:01 -0400 Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 09:48:01 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Teachers? To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: Unknown Message-ID: <7b.94a3c0d.26e8f691@aol.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id OAA29059 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dear Footbag Community, Brad Nelson asked of teachers and how we learned freestyle. Well, I live in a smallish city called Rome, NY. It's the geographic center of New York state, and I'm the only footbag player for quite a bit of distance, and I have had no one to freestyle with, ever, in my home town. However, I definitely feel that I have had some of the best teachers anyone could EVER have. I've been taught by Eric Wulff (please pardon mispellings of names, mispellings of words may be flamed vigorously ;) ), Carol Wedemyer, Ryan Mulroney, Sunil Jani, Ahren German, and anyone else who's up on a video on that I've seen on Footbag.org or Dallasfootbag.com. I've been taught by anyone who's posted anything relevant to this freestyle list in the past 2 years, because I think I've read most of it. Up until last summer at about this time at Funtastik, I had never played with another freestyler (except ONCE, with this guy at a Phish concert the previous summer at Vernon Downs in NY who had green! ! trim lavers and a dream footbag. Anyone here fit that profile?). However, I still learned some freestyle just from footbag videos and this list. My point is that teachers come in many forms, and if you're on this list, or have access to the web, you also have access to an entire community of teachers. 2¢ Matthew Cross University of Rochester Rochester, NY From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 8 01:21:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA30002 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 01:21:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00448 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 12:36:50 -0700 Received: from spike.excite.com ([199.172.152.97]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000907192025.BEUA13700.kuku.excite.com@spike.excite.com> for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 12:20:25 -0700 Message-ID: <10624621.968354425741.JavaMail.imail@spike.excite.com> Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 12:20:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Allan Haggett Reply-To: To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] yeah y'all!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 216.232.148.184 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org All y'all, Just wanted to drop an enthusiastic HAHA-HAHA!! Getting My freestyle digest is the one of the major highlights of my day these dayz(other than going out and Shreddin'!). Good discussions!! Any other newbies out there wanna put their feet in their mouths??(not that I haven't done it a hundred times on this list:)) As much as negative comments aren't really cool, they sure are funny sometimes!! Jamez?? Common', we all know you have some more inflamitory things to post!! (read the big smiles here, please:)) I have a question for everyone: What was the very first freesyle move(excluding basic kicks, flying clipper included) you can remember hitting? Mine would have to be what I dubbed the "Military Stall" in grade 11; a neck catch caught while dropping into the push-up position:) Always got my shirt dirty in that gravel parking lot:( Oh yeah, and what happened @ Funtastik? Allan K. Haggett http://members.home.com/freestylefootbag _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 8 01:22:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA30013 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 01:22:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Brian Parsons Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00323 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 12:33:37 -0700 Received: from TrollJr22@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id z.e1.962fad4 (3878) for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 15:32:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <48.a5342bb.26def406@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 15:32:53 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] St Charles Shred Fest Footbag Tournament this weekend To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 120 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org We're sorry for not listing where St Charles is, it is about an hour outside of Chicago. Brian From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 8 01:24:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA30028 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 01:24:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05486 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 15:59:38 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G0J01B01H6VLQ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2000 16:59:20 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 16:59:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle World Champion In-reply-to: <20000902050626.28047.qmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> To: James Risden Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 1 Sep 2000, James Risden wrote: > > can routinely get college students to stop and watch > > me kick on campus. By > > running all over a 1,000 sq ft area, going up and > > down steps, without > > dropping the bag. Not necessarily by doing big add > > moves. > > Whats so impressive about that? The fact that you can't do it! Or can you? :) > > Just because floor planes and travel seems to have > > become a lost skill, > > WHAA? Showing no control has become a lost skill? > I think by doing all these stupid "crowd pleaser" > moves, we are attracting the WRONG crowd. Ever competed before? It's not a matter of losing control man, it's about staying in control while being able to use a larger space and still do cool tricks. > A question for all you top shredders out there... > Did any of you start freestyling cause you saw a guy > walk up a flight of stairs kicking a footbag or bust a > backflip with a footbag? Handstand sole stall? I may not be a top shredder, but since your question is about "kicking footbag" I'll answer. I've been "kicking footbag" for 15 years. Only four years ago did I even see anything remotely like what's happening with my legs and that silly bag today. I started because kicking it was fun, that's it FUN. It may sound lame, but it got me started. > I may not be a top shredder yet, but I started > shreddin' cause I like dex's, spins, and stalls. I > was never impressed with any pendulem or neck stall. Well that's mighty subjective of you! > Floor space sux. hehe Then I challenge you to play in your closet forevermore. hehe! Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 8 01:25:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA30039 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 01:25:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05979 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 16:23:26 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G0J01C01IAUDI@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2000 17:23:18 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 17:23:18 -0600 (MDT) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] Freestyle Routines To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I love the routines. I think they're expressive and challenging and they definitely play to a crowd of people who are supportive whether or not they understand the sport. I agree that planes and travel should be removed as a separate category, but would certainly be something to take into consideration for the person who has the appropriate card for style points (I can't remember what the real category is or if it's necessarily separate). I think Planes and Travel definitely show a persons style and maybe they should be rewarded for it in some way, but the person who is more stationary shouldn't get penalized for not moving. Also, I'm pretty sure that there's a part of some card out there that involves points for moving within the various ADD categories (I should have brushed up on my judging knowledge but oh well). I think that kind of stinks. I'm all for trick variety, style, and graceful stuff, but I think it's useless to have a mandatory movement within the add values. Now if I'm wrong about my judging knowledge then sue me, if I'm right then...well...I feel a lot less stupid. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 01:21:32 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02227 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:21:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web701.mail.yahoo.com (web701.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.21]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA08426 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 18:18:21 -0700 Received: (qmail 26226 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Sep 2000 01:41:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20000908014131.26225.qmail@web701.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <10624621.968354425741.JavaMail.imail@spike.excite.com> Received: from [63.206.195.226] by web701.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 07 Sep 2000 18:41:31 PDT Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 18:41:31 -0700 (PDT) From: chris wollick Subject: first cool tricks (was Re: [freestyle] yeah y'all!!) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org besides toe/outside/inside stalls, mine would have to be catching it in my lap and jestering out of it. i know it's two moves, but other than little stall combos, that was the best thing i could do (besides walk-over). oh yeah, and i considered "baby" kicks a trick too. -chris From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 01:23:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02243 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:23:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail3.magma.ca (mail3.magma.ca [206.191.0.221]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21133 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 22:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (port-2-34.magma.ca [206.191.63.34]) by mail3.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA01882 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 22:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001701c0193f$b2d65980$0b01010a@dave> In-Reply-To: <008b01c0183f$878c50a0$0200a8c0@pseudo> From: "Dave Reid" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] late reply to For James Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 22:51:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ryan "World Champion" Mulroney wrote: > I started freestyle because I wanted to be able to do a pendulum. > Ryan Mulroney Can you do it yet? (it's a joke, please don't flood me with email like the time I joked about not knowing who The Enforcer was!) I started freestyle because I had perfected the butt stall and I wanted to take my game to the next level. Here's to variety in the sport. Let's see more flyers, kick set moves, knee bumps, etc.! Dancing, cartwheels, backflips, pushups, stairs, handstands, kick ups....... Dave PS. Thanks for all the great motivational email about kicking over 30. There really is no cooler sport and I will stick at it as long as my body lets me. At least I can say that I am still improving at 30! :) Seeya at the tourneys. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 01:24:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02254 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:24:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA12518 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 22:18:33 -0700 Received: (qmail 16794 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Sep 2000 05:18:25 -0000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20000908051825.16793.qmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.88.53] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 07 Sep 2000 22:18:25 PDT Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 22:18:25 -0700 (PDT) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] Teachers? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Matthew Cross wrote: > video on that > I've seen on Footbag.org or Dallasfootbag.com. Totally, thats how I learned. I heard thats how Brian Mckenzie learned too (WARNING: possibly just a rumor). I also have a question. Has anyone ever hit pdx barroque, or blurry barroque? That would be sick! Later, Jamez From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 01:25:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02265 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:25:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f59.hotmail.com [216.32.181.59]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA18609 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 03:51:18 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 03:50:49 -0700 Received: from 142.177.202.71 by lw2fd.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 08 Sep 2000 10:50:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [142.177.202.71] From: "Cole Hobson" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] yeah y'all!! Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 10:50:48 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <10624621.968354425741.JavaMail.imail@spike.excite.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Sep 2000 10:50:49.0205 (UTC) FILETIME=[A6405250:01C01982] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hmm ... I don't even know if this is considered a move or anything, but the first thing I did in freestyle was this ... Close your feet onto the bag while standing, then fall forward and put your hands down onto the ground for support, then flip your legs forward, and send the bag towards the circle. So that's it, my first actual move though would have had to been an around the world. Later, Cole "Broken Ankle" Hobson http://footbag.cjb.net Allan Haggett wrote: >All y'all, > >Just wanted to drop an enthusiastic HAHA-HAHA!! Getting My freestyle digest >is the one of the major highlights of my day these dayz(other than going >out >and Shreddin'!). Good discussions!! Any other newbies out there wanna put >their feet in their mouths??(not that I haven't done it a hundred times on >this list:)) As much as negative comments aren't really cool, they sure are >funny sometimes!! Jamez?? Common', we all know you have some more >inflamitory things to post!! (read the big smiles here, please:)) > >I have a question for everyone: > >What was the very first freesyle move(excluding basic kicks, flying clipper >included) you can remember hitting? > >Mine would have to be what I dubbed the "Military Stall" in grade 11; a >neck >catch caught while dropping into the push-up position:) Always got my shirt >dirty in that gravel parking lot:( > >Oh yeah, and what happened @ Funtastik? > >Allan K. Haggett >http://members.home.com/freestylefootbag From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 01:25:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02276 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:25:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA19242 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 04:49:11 -0700 Received: from bluestem (bluestem.prairienet.org [192.17.3.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23761 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 06:49:02 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 06:49:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Philip Summers X-Sender: konrad@bluestem To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] really wak moves Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Have any of these been hit yet (or attempted?) paradox miraging Shaft (similar to Paratoxic) stepping Paratoxic double-spinning butterfly, legover, or gyro mirage reverse-swirling blender; or twirling swirl ducking-inspinning-diving clipper (the double-ducking clipper just wasn't working so I started trying to hit this [and osis version] instead. Can anybody do 2 ducks/dives in one move?) phil "peace" From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 01:26:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02287 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:26:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dfw-smtpout3.email.verio.net (dfw-smtpout3.email.verio.net [129.250.36.43]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23346 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 09:15:40 -0700 Received: from [129.250.38.62] (helo=dfw-mmp2.email.verio.net) by dfw-smtpout3.email.verio.net with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #7) id 13XQoN-0005e8-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2000 16:15:31 +0000 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (helo=[209.107.90.78]) by dfw-mmp2.email.verio.net with esmtp (Exim 3.15 #4) id 13XQoL-0006NV-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2000 16:15:30 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 11:16:56 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson Subject: [freestyle] New Freestyle Scoring System for Discussion, Codenamed: Extreme Freestyle Event Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! While I was driving 2500 miles home from Worlds2000 in Vancouver (and what an adventure!) a new way of scoring freestyle came to mind. I have chewed on it for a while, and I am ready to have it picked apart by all you freestyle techies out there. My thoughts are often scattered, but if you commit to reading the entire post, you should understand what I am going for here. The key is that we are still looking for essentially the same things as we do now, we can do it with less judges and with instant results. A Special thanks to Vince and Steve for making the worlds results available sooooo quickly! It really helped. Codenamed (don't get hung up on the name, it is open to discussion): "Extreme Freestyle Event" This concept came from a need for a system that uses less judges, and gives instant results... while at the same time rewarding players with quantifiable values relating to difficulty, variety, execution, linking and presentation. This system, called the "Extreme Freestyle Event" can be accurately scored with 5 judges and a computer to tabulate the scores (ideally, a network of computers). Below, I have outlined the technical side of the system, but for now, I want to discuss what I see to be the merits of the system. Routine length is strictly between 1:50 and 2:00 total, with deductions (TBD) for going under or over time. The best freestyler in the world is the one who can cleanly perform the largest variety of difficult tricks in long strings and with the music of their choice. With that in mind, the Total Score of the Extreme Freestyle Event is comprised of the players "Add to Contact" ratio (adjusted downward for drops) multiplied by their number of unique moves (similar to the "Shred" event), plus a score that reflects their ability to link moves together, plus a score that rewards them for various (previously thought to be unquantifiable) elements of presentation and choreography. I have factored drops into the score by having it effect the very most important value in the entire scoring structure, the Multiplier. I arrive at the Adjusted Ratio by simply taking the players "Add to Contact" ratio and subtracting a quarter (.25 is used in my examples, but is open to debate whether it should be higher or lower) of a point per drop from it. Since the Adjusted Ratio will be multiplied by the number of unique moves, which will be over 50 for the top players, every tenth of a point is important. In a sense the player is punished for drops by hitting them where it hurts, the multipier. Example, three players going head to head and each of them gets 50 unique moves and had exactly the same ratio of 3.0. The first player has zero drops, the second had 2 and the third had three. Player one would have a score As opposed to having five judges, each focusing on an individual category of "elements of difficulty" and determining unique moves, the Extreme Freestyle Event uses two judges to "on the fly" determine how many unique moves a player has completed. The reason for two judges is that determining unique moves is a VERY tall task to take on, and I would feel better if we took two peoples scores and averaged them, rather than put that burdon on the shoulders of a single person. It could be argued that if a variance of X (lets say the judge{s} are off by 10 for argument sake) and it can be proven by videotape, then perhaps a score could be "officially" challenged, but that is for another day. One judge working on a computer running FileMaker Pro or MS Excel (we need to develop this software, and make it cross platform so it can be used freely anywhere, ideally we would make the software available via a web site for mac or pc) would simply enter add values as they happen (so they don't have to do the math in their head, which is the "hard part" of counting adds). This gives more tidbits of data that were previously tabulated by three or four people (add counter, drops/contact counter and linking/distribution judge). The individual that is "counting adds", when on a computer, is also counting "add contacts", they insert a special character for a drop and a special character when a player performs a non-add contact which lets us INSTANTLY calculate all of the calculations needed below. All that has to be added is the "Number of Unique Moves" and "Presentation Score", both of which are IMMEDIATELY available. We could have three, but two should do... as Presentation Judges. I do think we need to have more than one, so we can average their score to balance any inequities they may have seen (for the same reasons as having two judges looking for Unique Moves). The presentation judge is looking for any of the elements listed below (we need to discuss what would get awarded a "presentation point"), this list is based on what the presentation judges ALREADY are looking for, it is simply scoring them differently. This way, the judge is looking for SPECIFIC things a player might do. This way, the player will clearly know how to best achieve a high score on the presentation card (currently, the presentation card is a huge vaguarity). I have added some things to the list that aren't currently under the presentation card, like Unusual Surfaces and Fliers, because I think they are better used for "presentation" and less for content, although they should still be counted in unique moves and adds, so it could be argued to take them out of the list. The Presentation Judges will be essentially putting tick marks on paper and counting them up at the end (this could be automated in a computer network, to be instantaneous results). A Presentation Judge might find themselves giving two or three tick marks to a single move, but when warranted, then the player deserves it. I have calculated that a range of probable scores would be between 75 and 200. Eric has noted recently that he wants more weight to go to presentation, and now would be a good time to discuss this. Some might argue that this system puts too much emphasis on Composition. To them I would spew the following opinions and facts: 1) The current system is AT LEAST 2/3 Composition Focused. Although the biggest differences in scores are usually in Presentation, as the top players all seem to max out the comp cards in the same categories. 2) The routines of today are entirely focused on composition integrated with the music and the players should be aptly rewarded for their efforts. 3) This system is not "Composition Heavy", as it allows a glass ceiling (no limit) for composition points. Some might argue that we don't need the linking score, but I would say that is important because it will differentiate between two players that can hit the same type moves, but one is better at putting them together back to back... that player gets the reward of a higher score. TEAM FREESTYLE: Add a judge that simply gives a point for each unique team formation, each unique team move (or two points per, this is certainly in need of suggestions). TOTAL SCORE = Compostion Score + Linking Score + Presentation Score ADJUSTED RATIO = (Adds divided by Contacts) minus (.25 x Number of Drops) COMPOSTION SCORE = Adjusted Ratio x # of Unique Moves LINKING SCORE = Adds divided by "Number of Strings" *****I must emphasize that this is not the only way to put a value on Linking, but I feel it is important that players are encouraged through a reward system, to do their routines in as few strings as possible. Links could also be measured by taking contacts minus kicks, or contacts minus number of strings, or both as well. PRESENTATION (APPs are the Accumulated Presentation Points) SCORE = Total Number of Presentation Elements (Each Presentation Element is awarded one point [or APP]). *********************** Glossary: PRESENTATION ELEMENT (APP): Any time a player accomplishes something on the list below (still needs input and discussion on what qualifies as an APP) Balance Move Strength Move Unusual Surface Smiles and other personality elements (TBD) Each pair of tricks on the beat Music and Player "freeze" in unison Intentional Travel (per two contacts) Original Move Original Combo Intentional Arm Movements Audience Participation Dance Move Flying Move When a Trick is performed syncronously with lyrics ADD OTHER STUFF HERE (please make suggestions as to what other things might be included in this list) STRING (PRO): A string is a series of tricks done in a row. A string contains ONLY tricks of add values of 2 or more, and a string is ended by a drop or an add-contact of less than 2 adds (a kick or a tilt). Consecutive non-add contacts only waste time. Consecutive low-add contacts (tilts) brings down your ratio. STRING (INTERMEDIATE): A string is a series of tricks done in a row. A string contains ONLY tricks of add values of 1 or more, and a string is ended by a drop or a non add contact (a basic kick). Consecutive non-add contacts only waste time. UNIQUE MOVE (PRO): For pro's, we are only counting 3-add and higher value moves as unique (the biggest reason for this is to make it easy for the judges to identify unique moves, and to ensure a high level of play). A move is unique if its add value and order of adds is different from other moves done in the routine. (There is an opportunity here to include set-variances, like Barfly-Paradon-Double over down-Down Double to all be unique, this should be discussed). UNIQUE MOVE (INTERMEDIATE. and maybe women too): For intermediates (and maybe women), we are only counting 2-add and higher value moves as unique (the biggest reason for this is to make it easier for the judges to identify unique moves, and to ensure a high level of play). A move is unique if its add value and order of adds is different from other moves done in the routine. (There is an opportunity here to include set-variances, like Barfly-Paradon-Double over down-Down Double to all be unique, this should be discussed). TBD: To be discussed. END GLOSSARY ********************** To see how it plays out, I would like to review the Vancouver Worlds2000 Finals routines for mens open singles and womens open singles and see how the system plays out in terms of results... does anyone have all the routines that they could send to me on videotape? If the system gives predictable results in the beta-test, then I would like to use it at the Midwest Regional Freestyle Championships this coming summer (more info to follow). Please consider this system, and reply to the list with feedback. I have been invisible on this listserve for a long time, but I'm back now, with a vengeance (sp?). Please accept my apologies for this long post, but what the heck, I'm making up for lost bandwidth... :-) Thanks! See ya! Scott Davidson IFC, Freestyle Committee Chair enlightener@footbag.org From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 01:26:27 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02298 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:26:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ww187.netaddress.usa.net (ww187.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.87]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA23883 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 09:53:01 -0700 Received: (qmail 3499 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Sep 2000 16:52:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20000908165252.3498.qmail@ww187.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.87 by ww187 for [213.3.177.205] via web-mailer(34WB1.4.03) on Fri Sep 8 16:52:51 GMT 2000 Date: 8 Sep 00 18:52:51 MET DST From: Jan Zimmermann To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] European Championship CD X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (34WB1.4.03) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id RAA31175 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello everybody, the Video CD's of the European Freestyle Championships 2000 in Paris are ready. Compiled by Sebastian Kleinichen from Frankfurt Footbag it will now (or soon) be on sale at www.footbag.ch. Its two full CD's with videos of the Open Freestyle prelims and finals, intermediate finals, doubles and women competition plus loads of shreds from europes best and the kick ass guests we had this year. Since it is a huge hasstle to send things to the states and transfering money from the states we're not going to be selling it outside of europe. However there might be a few people who've been to the tournament or who are just curious how it went who would like a copy. Therefor we are looking for someone in the states who has the possibility to copy CD's who would take care of making copies for everyone who wants one and sending them on. Any volunteers? Jan P.S. you can check out some shred samples from the European Champs at www.footbagfreestyle.de although those samples only include European players so far and none of that crazy stuff people like Lon, Ahren or Tu busted.... From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 01:26:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02310 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:26:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dfw-smtpout1.email.verio.net (dfw-smtpout1.email.verio.net [129.250.36.41]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28576 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 13:11:01 -0700 Received: from [129.250.38.63] (helo=dfw-mmp3.email.verio.net) by dfw-smtpout1.email.verio.net with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #7) id 13XUU8-0000A1-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2000 20:10:52 +0000 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (helo=[209.107.90.78]) by dfw-mmp3.email.verio.net with esmtp (Exim 3.15 #4) id 13XUU6-0006Tk-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2000 20:10:51 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 15:11:25 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson Subject: [freestyle] St. Charles Freestyle Shred Fest should be GREAT!!! Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi All! I really wish I had known about this shred event earlier. For those who knew (know) him, a friend of the sport of footbag in Chicago, Steve Richardson (aka "Yoga-master Steve") is passing on to the next part of his life... MARRIED LIFE! He is getting hitched in Indian-no-place (indianapolis) as he calls it, on Saturday the 9th, same day as the shred fest. OF COURSE we would have been attending the shred fest if Steve hadn't asked us first to go to his wedding. He has already moved his abode about a mile up north on the lakefront, and is now about a block from Oak Street Beach (so you should see him on the sunday gatherings more frequently). Looks like they will have perfect weather for the shred event. If there is anything going on for Sunday, even informal, Val and I could probably make it out for that, as we are returning Saturday night from indianapolis. Freestyle Rulz! Have fun on Saturday. Go Steve Richardson! See ya! Scott Davidson, Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 01:29:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02321 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:29:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f22.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.22]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18453 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2000 10:28:22 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 9 Sep 2000 10:27:43 -0700 Received: from 128.214.152.202 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 09 Sep 2000 17:27:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.214.152.202] From: "Samuli Viitanen" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Intermediate Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 17:27:43 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001f01c0184b$0cfe9a80$798090d4@quarktasche> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Sep 2000 17:27:43.0524 (UTC) FILETIME=[431AC640:01C01A83] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Brad Nelson wrote: > > > I was thinking about competing soon Matthias L. Schmidt replied: >do it............ You will possibly experience a new feeling of shredding >(*stage fright*). i agree with matthias. attending a competition is great fun. do it when it's possible for you!! > > > and wondered what kind of moves they hit >They? They are not one slush....... >There are some hitting lots of 4 Add moves, who should better go open, but >just do not because they are on their first competition (like European >intermediate champ Samuli). There are also many just doing the small 2 Add >moves, as I saw them e.g. on the German championships (btw if you wanna see >the results: >www.footbagfreestyle.de), there are some trying to do both in their routine >(maybe like me) and there are some doing no phat tricks but having style >and >a nice routine... >So what do they hit? everything??? :) i think you brad (or anyone who wants to start compete freestyle) shouldn't be worried about other competitors and what kind of tricks they hit in their routine when you're attending a competition. i can't say what tricks exactly are hit; from 1 add upwards.. :) (in my routine in the european masters i hit just basicly 2 add tricks, one 4 and two 3's.) but i think a player who is starting to compete shouldn't concentrate all his/hers power on maximising adds when planning a routine. the beginning intermediate competitor should more concentrate on showing good control, showmanship, and the ability to do (basic) tricks well (both sides:) and tricks from all add categories. for example if you're trying to hit as many fours as possible in a routine and you drop about 15 times, the guy that hit twos and some threes really swell with 5 drops will most likely qualify from the round / win. drops are the most critical thing that can raise or lower your score. so my advice is to do tricks that you master well (of course there's nothing bad trying to hit big tricks in you're routine, i myself try everytime to do one or two _dazzling_ tricks; sometimes i'm able to do those, sometimes not. it's just footbag.), take the audience and put up a great show on stage and HAVE FUN!!!! there's nothing like it!!! > > > I have never been to a tournament so I don't know if I have a > > chance of doing well. >You will have already done well well when you left the stage, no matter >what >you did up there.......... again matthias has the point. everyone will definitely respect you because you had the guts to compete; you have already beaten yourself when finishing up your first routine in a competition. it's an enormous treshold to enter a competition and afterwards you can only be glad that you did it. be proud of yourself:) now go compete. > >Anybody has a name for stepping opposite reverse whirl? blurry reverse whirl...? i don't know. >.........................Matthias (still intermediate) i'm sorry about all my possible writing erors. -Samuli Viitanen (planning to go open next year) -finnishredder@footbag.org ps. i was just wondering if there is going to be any special guest stars from outside finland in the upcoming finnish champinoships in october in turku? From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 01:30:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02334 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:30:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1703.mail.yahoo.com (web1703.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.214]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA30895 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2000 21:02:47 -0700 Received: (qmail 16741 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Sep 2000 04:02:38 -0000 Message-ID: <20000910040238.16740.qmail@web1703.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.255.208.74] by web1703.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 09 Sep 2000 21:02:38 PDT Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 21:02:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Shaun Marques Subject: [freestyle] Blurry Symposium Whirl To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey stylers, I was just thinking, if Paradox Symposium Whirl was renamed PS Whirl (makes sense), how about Blurry Symposium Whirl becoming renamed as BS Whirl (still makes some sense)? *<\= ) Piece, Shaun M. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 01:31:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02346 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:31:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f257.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.148.135]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31167 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2000 21:13:05 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 9 Sep 2000 21:12:25 -0700 Received: from 63.206.212.77 by lw4fd.law4.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 04:12:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.206.212.77] From: "Tu Vu" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] backflip?!?! Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 21:12:24 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Sep 2000 04:12:25.0041 (UTC) FILETIME=[5315DC10:01C01ADD] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello hacky slackers, I just wanted to enter this HOT and STEAMY debate by just letting everyone know that the backflip has been done a long time ago. The FATHER of freestyle, JACK "SkOOL"CRAFT used to do backflips in his routines in the late 80's to early 90's. He would likely finish routines with a toestall to a backflip where he lap stalls the bag in mid air(as he is turning) and landed in the lapstall position. Crazy! Tu OLDSKOOL!? From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 01:32:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02364 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:32:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f316.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.236.194]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09366; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 19:01:24 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 19:00:43 -0700 Received: from 24.67.226.58 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 08 Sep 2000 02:00:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.67.226.58] From: "Jeff Lopes" To: allan@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] yeah y'all!! Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 02:00:43 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <10624621.968354425741.JavaMail.imail@spike.excite.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Sep 2000 02:00:43.0972 (UTC) FILETIME=[98DAE840:01C01938] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sup Bros, I used to be an all-star soccer player and took about 6 years of karate, so when I first saw a video of Eric Wulff (first vid I saw, hes still my fav) I was so absolutely dazzled. I figured I had the coordination to freestyle. I started about a year and a half ago, and the first 2 add move I hit was mirage. I was so happy!! Every move after that got better and better, and the sport got more addicting and addicting. Its an amazing sport, and the perfect ice breaker in a circle of new kickers. I meet so many people through it. At University, I start circles all the time, and teach moves like toe stall and around the world, and spread the web site. Matt Cross was telling me down at worlds to print cards with just the web site address on it to give to people interested. Great idea Mr. Cross. Cant say enough about worlds, I had never shred with someone better than me, and I had always wanted to. Learned so much in that span and all the people were cool. Footbag rules. Later guys....... Jeff Lopes >From: Allan Haggett >Reply-To: >To: freestyle@footbag.org >Subject: [freestyle] yeah y'all!! >Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 12:20:25 -0700 (PDT) > >All y'all, > >Just wanted to drop an enthusiastic HAHA-HAHA!! Getting My freestyle digest >is the one of the major highlights of my day these dayz(other than going >out >and Shreddin'!). Good discussions!! Any other newbies out there wanna put >their feet in their mouths??(not that I haven't done it a hundred times on >this list:)) As much as negative comments aren't really cool, they sure are >funny sometimes!! Jamez?? Common', we all know you have some more >inflamitory things to post!! (read the big smiles here, please:)) > >I have a question for everyone: > >What was the very first freesyle move(excluding basic kicks, flying clipper >included) you can remember hitting? > >Mine would have to be what I dubbed the "Military Stall" in grade 11; a >neck >catch caught while dropping into the push-up position:) Always got my shirt >dirty in that gravel parking lot:( > >Oh yeah, and what happened @ Funtastik? > >Allan K. Haggett >http://members.home.com/freestylefootbag > > > > > >_______________________________________________________ >Say Bye to Slow Internet! >http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 01:51:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02446 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:51:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web2006.mail.yahoo.com (web2006.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.206]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA17150 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:49:15 -0700 Received: (qmail 16368 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Sep 2000 01:49:07 -0000 Message-ID: <20000906014907.16367.qmail@web2006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.162.15.14] by web2006.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 05 Sep 2000 18:49:07 PDT Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:49:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle World Champion To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'll try to be brief: Two subjects: Floor travel does not suck; I wasn't saying it should be altogether removed from routines- I think it looks good (when done creatively). It won't matter so much when the formula judging is gone; then it will be up to the judge to decide how well the competitor's presentation. Sure it will be biased at first, but that just means the judges will need to get better; which means not putting unexperienced players as judges. Also, maybe I misread Fogle's post, but in my opinion showing control in a huge combo or string takes a hell of a lot more work than toe stalls up stairs. Kudos to both, but from my experience in San Diego, if you are busting phat every time you get the bag, you will have a major crowd. Spectators don't just want to see pendulums; they wanna have their minds blown. And if you are in a circle where people are doing something they've never seen before, they will take interest. And right on to Tina Lewis! I hope to see you at TX State. Secondly, and shortly, I don't like the phat trick contest; it's just not possible nor fair to compare mobius>blurry whirl to vortex>inspin osis. I really think a ten contact contest would showcase the circle aspect of the sport, and would be more suitable to judge. Those are my thoughts, Eli Piltz p.s. We are thinking of holding a (mild) Winter Jam in San Diego sometime in December, FYI. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 03:44:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA02581 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 03:44:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1301.mail.yahoo.com (web1301.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.151]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA22936 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:19:34 -0700 Received: (qmail 17798 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Sep 2000 02:36:17 -0000 Message-ID: <20000911023617.17797.qmail@web1301.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Received: from [63.23.252.139] by web1301.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:36:17 PDT Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:36:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Reply-To: janejones2000@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] Intermediate To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Just for upkeeping the dynamics of this list serve... ;-) Matthias L. Schmidt: >>Anybody has a name for stepping opposite reverse whirl? Samuli Viitanen wrote: >blurry reverse whirl...? i don't know. or... Ripwalk. Depends on if you consider a reverse whirl (dex window from the knee) a seperate move from a butterfly (dex window from the hip). If you think they're all butterflies, then it'd be ripwalk, if you think it's a reverse whirl, then Samuli is right, it's a blurry reverse whirl. Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 03:46:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA02616 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 03:46:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1301.mail.yahoo.com (web1301.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.151]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA23168 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:28:04 -0700 Received: (qmail 18577 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Sep 2000 02:44:46 -0000 Message-ID: <20000911024446.18576.qmail@web1301.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Received: from [63.23.252.139] by web1301.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:44:46 PDT Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:44:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Reply-To: janejones2000@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] really wak moves To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Pretty sure I saw Lon do this last month. Can't remember if it was ducking or diving. it was clip to same side clip. I'm sure he can do either or. Mel was there (Lon was there ;-) )...anyone else see that? It was cool casual Lon style. See ya, Jane Philip Summers wrote: > Can anybody do 2 ducks/dives in one move?) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 03:48:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA02654 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 03:48:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from inetsrv.Callplus.co.nz (mail.callplus.co.nz [202.180.64.194]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23950 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:52:05 -0700 Received: by INETSRV with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 14:51:41 +1200 Message-ID: <48A772923645D411B54100D0B765CC2130D3E1@INETSRV> From: Adrian Dick To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] New Freestyle Shoe Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 14:51:40 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, Has anyone tried the Customatix Hacky Sack shoe? You can view and buy them here: http://www.customatix.com/customatix/builder/LargeView.po?shoe=1120632 They don't look as good as Lavers to me, but I was just curious seeing as it is the first ever specifically designed footbag shoe. Cheers ! From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 03:49:12 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA02678 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 03:49:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1301.mail.yahoo.com (web1301.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.151]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA23445 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:37:14 -0700 Received: (qmail 19659 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Sep 2000 02:53:53 -0000 Message-ID: <20000911025353.19658.qmail@web1301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.23.252.139] by web1301.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:53:53 PDT Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:53:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Reply-To: janejones2000@yahoo.com Subject: [freestyle] Zion Tour To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey hey hey, Anyone know how Zion Tour went after European Masters 2000? Mark I.? Eric D.? -Jane From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 04:30:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA02950 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 04:30:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailgate.novagate.net (IDENT:root@mailgate.novagate.net [205.138.138.22]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24901 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 20:33:19 -0700 Received: from novagate.net (002gra107.chartermi.net [24.247.2.107]) by mailgate.novagate.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id XAA26957; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39BC53C3.3807E708@novagate.net> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:38:48 -0400 From: ryan masuga Reply-To: masuga@novagate.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Dick CC: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Freestyle Shoe References: <48A772923645D411B54100D0B765CC2130D3E1@INETSRV> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Funny that there's no shot of the inside area of the shoe. Pretty hefty price tag, but they are "customizable". So are Lavers with markers, dye, or whatever else. The fact that they named them "hacky sack" as opposed to "footbag" makes me wonder. Looks like you wouldn't be able to feel the bag on any surface of your foot! You'd have to spends hours carving out the insides of those things, from the look of the photo on the web. ryan "MaHUGEa" 3cFD, NYFA! From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 05:13:25 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03059 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 05:13:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1303.mail.yahoo.com (web1303.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.153]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA26049 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:28:20 -0700 Received: (qmail 13737 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Sep 2000 04:28:11 -0000 Message-ID: <20000911042811.13736.qmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Received: from [63.23.252.237] by web1303.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:28:11 PDT Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:28:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Reply-To: janejones2000@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Freestyle Scoring System for Discussion, Codenamed: Extreme Freestyle Event To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey hey, First off, cool Scott. I really enjoyed reading some of your ideas. Here are the parts that really interest me. > The best freestyler in the world is the one who can > cleanly perform the > largest variety of difficult tricks in long strings > and with the music of > their choice. Cool, I don't know if you read my original post about having a combined score of routine and shred, but Scott's Extreme Freestyle Event incorporates both shred and routine without the need for two seperate events--more efficient than my original propsal. > LINKING SCORE = Adds divided by "Number of Strings" I'm down with this. Something like ADDs:Contacts:Strings (i.e. the difference between 3 linked barflies vs. 6 conseq. mirages would be 12:3:1 vs. 12:6:1)might work too... Should you get more points for shorter harder strings this way? or should longer smaller add strings count the same? This would be where shred could be accounted for in your routine. I _really_ like this concept. Some variation of this is the direction we need to go with freestyle events. IMHO. A QUESTION: What if a drop happens obviously in the middle of the string. Is the player indirectly penalized for the drop by counting his/her string as 2 strings now instead of one? Do the judges recognize that this was still all part of one string when they start up again by trying the same trick they dropped on and only penalize them by .25 x 1 drop? Or do they get a double whammy? D'oh! > STRING (PRO): > STRING (INTERMEDIATE): > UNIQUE MOVE (PRO): > UNIQUE MOVE (INTERMEDIATE. and maybe women too): I like this idea too. The only thing I disagree on is including Women's Open with Intermediate scoring. I'd prefer to only have Intermediate and Open(PRO) brackets (period) or require the same PRO requirements for Open Women bracket. There are women competitors perfectly able to make the PRO specifications you gave...it will just force more of us to have planned routines in competition to do well and the others might want to consider competing Intermediate instead. Speaking of which. Should we get rid of Women's bracket and only have Open then? We could adopt whatever system the Europeans come up with for ranking Europeans players seperately from non-Europeans players and use it for ranking Women players seperately from Men players within the same Open Bracket. I think now that there are more women skooling, this will push them to increase their level of play so they can compete Open. ...and back to what Scott was saying... this is a good idea Scott has about judging Intermediate and Pro differently. For those players that always write in wondering what bracket they should be entering in...it may help them decide by how much tiltless or guiltless linking they can do. Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 05:13:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03071 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 05:13:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dns1.provide.net (root@dns1.provide.net [216.86.64.33]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25812 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:14:59 -0700 Received: from scratchyball.mcraig.org (matt@usr05-010.provide.net [216.86.67.10]) by dns1.provide.net (8.9.0/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA06343 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:14:47 -0400 (EDT) From: matt craig To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Freestyle Shoe Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:46:43 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain References: <48A772923645D411B54100D0B765CC2130D3E1@INETSRV> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00091023492104.10461@scratchyball.mcraig.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 10 Sep 2000, Adrian Dick wrote: > Has anyone tried the Customatix Hacky Sack shoe? You can view and buy them > They don't look as good as Lavers to me, but I was just curious seeing as it > is the first ever specifically designed footbag shoe. Looks like vans or sketchers or some circle-kickin' hacky-sacker's shoe. That toe is ugly. I'd rather kick in Stan Smiths. useless opinion, matt -- MichiganFootbag.or From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 05:14:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03082 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 05:14:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dns1.provide.net (root@dns1.provide.net [216.86.64.33]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25800 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:14:57 -0700 Received: from scratchyball.mcraig.org (matt@usr05-010.provide.net [216.86.67.10]) by dns1.provide.net (8.9.0/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA06339 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:14:45 -0400 (EDT) From: matt craig To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Intermediate Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:35:42 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain References: <20000911023617.17797.qmail@web1301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00091023433103.10461@scratchyball.mcraig.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 10 Sep 2000, Jane Jones wrote: > Just for upkeeping the dynamics of this list serve... ;-) OK, I'll bite > Matthias L. Schmidt: > >Anybody has a name for stepping opposite reverse whirl? > >> Samuli Viitanen wrote: > >>blurry reverse whirl...? i don't know. > or... Ripwalk. Depends on if you consider a reverse whirl (dex window from > the knee) a seperate move from a butterfly Depends, if they are the same I can easily hit reverse whirl (butterfly) everytime. So besides the fact that they feel and look totally different, let's call 'em the same and I'll add reverse whirl (both sides) to my repertoire. matt -- MichiganFootbag.or From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 11 05:15:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03093 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 05:15:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Rob Fuller Received: from c008.sfo.cp.net (c008-h005.c008.sfo.cp.net [209.228.14.194]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA25451 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 20:58:17 -0700 Received: (cpmta 2365 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2000 20:57:38 -0700 Date: 10 Sep 2000 20:57:38 -0700 Message-ID: <20000911035738.2364.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> X-Sent: 11 Sep 2000 03:57:38 GMT Received: from [207.148.136.180] by mail.canada.com with HTTP; 10 Sep 2000 20:57:37 PDT Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.7.1.4 Subject: [freestyle] Weak side Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was just wondering how long most of you were shredding before you actually got serious about footbag and started to REALLY work on your weak side so you could catch up to you good side. Or did you all start out using both sides. I've been skooling for about 4 months max. and just realized how much I would like to go pro someday. But I've only been skooling my left(weak) side for like a month tops. It seems like I'll never catch up to my good side. I used to skool some moves on both sides but then I stopped. It seems like it will never catch up even though I know it will if I skool it really really hard. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 00:23:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04792 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:23:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [194.221.183.20]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA19655 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2000 11:33:13 -0700 Received: (qmail 12845 invoked by uid 0); 9 Sep 2000 18:32:31 -0000 Received: from blndi5-212-144-128-049.arcor-ip.net (HELO quarktasche) (212.144.128.49) by mail.gmx.net with SMTP; 9 Sep 2000 18:32:31 -0000 Message-ID: <001001c01a8c$328207e0$318090d4@quarktasche> From: "Matthias Lino Schmidt" To: References: <001f01c0184b$0cfe9a80$798090d4@quarktasche> <39B710C2.25DD3F18@dallasfootbag.org> Subject: stepping opp. rev. whirl and pendulum set (was: Re: [freestyle] Intermediate) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 20:31:39 +0200 Organization: Schmidt Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi list, I remember a recent post to the list saying reverse whirl can't be paradox, and I tend to agree. It seems to me similar to an osis set from same foot - you just spin to one side, not doing the "double-hip-pivot". So stepping op rev whirl would just be a nice 4 Add move and still requiring a shorter name (even "blurry reverse whirl" is too long). But because I'm only creative in drawing or sometimes inventing new moves (I have a very greeeeeaaaat one I'll soon tell you about...) I'm still asking about a name for it. I wrote: >Anybody has a name for stepping opposite reverse whirl? I know Jan from Prague also hitting this move, so what about you, Dexter? Now the other topic: I started doing an half pendulum (releasing the bag behind the back, not letting it go over the head again) and then turning around and doing any kind of move when I couldn't even do many moves. Now, in times I do double dexes, I created a way to make every (toe-set) move a "pendulum move". Just include ">1/2 pendulum [dex]> (back?) spin [bod]" between set and the first element and you have a nice new move. Below are some first proposals for pendulum moves, but they still need some clarification, e.g. about the direction of the spin (back or not) and the Add value of the pendulum (one dexterity?). I know this is no new idea, I saw Lon Smith doing pendulum dragonfly in Paris, but it seems to be not noted or used by many shredders, that's the reason for this post. Pendulum moves: -"pendulum double over down" toe>half pendulum [dex]>(back?) spin [bod]>same out [dex]>same out [dex]>op clip [xbd][del] 6 Adds????? -"pendulum mirage" toe>half pendulum [dex]>(back?) spin [bod]>same or op in [dex]>op toe[del] 4 Adds? -"pendulum butterfly" (my favorite) toe>half pendulum [dex]>(back?) spin [bod]>same out [dex]>op clip [xbd][del] 5 Adds? This would be my first... -"pendulum dbl. legover" toe>half pendulum [dex]>(back?) spin [bod]>same/op in [dex]>op out [dex]>same toe [del] 5 Adds? This list is easy to continue, find your own moves...but wait, there is one important more: -"pendulum nemesis" ;o)))) toe>half pendulum [dex]>(back?) spin [bod]>op in [dex]>same in[dex]>op out [dex]>same out[dex]>op clip [xbd][del] 5 dexterities and 8 Adds...hehe....I'm gonna hit it....:o) Maybe "pendulum" should be a new concept.... stay styling, Matthias.................. (surely had lots of misspellings or grammar mistakes, so it's your turn, Steve......:o) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 00:26:12 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04804 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:26:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Rob Fuller Received: from c008.sfo.cp.net (c008-h004.c008.sfo.cp.net [209.228.14.193]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA26289 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:42:13 -0700 Received: (cpmta 17045 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2000 21:41:13 -0700 Date: 10 Sep 2000 21:41:13 -0700 Message-ID: <20000911044113.17044.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> X-Sent: 11 Sep 2000 04:41:13 GMT Received: from [207.148.138.171] by mail.canada.com with HTTP; 10 Sep 2000 21:41:13 PDT Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.7.1.4 Subject: [freestyle] New 2 Bag move Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello to all footbaggers. I have come up with a new 2 bag move.tell me if you have hit it so I know if I may name it. What you do is catch 1 bag on an inside stall and set it on the ground like you would for a walkover. Then drop another bag and catch on an inside stall with you other foot while standing on the side of your other foot. So you now have a bag on each foot and are standing on the sides of your feet. One in front of you and one in x-bdy position. Pop the one in the x-bdy position up and catch it on and inside stall with the same leg, Now set it down and repeat with other leg. You can also do it backwards. I have named this move the pepper-walk after my dog pepper who died in his sleep on saturday the 8th of sept. 2000 Rob "the fireball" Fuller From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 00:26:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04816 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:26:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f281.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.240.59]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27021 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:22:40 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:22:01 -0700 Received: from 128.148.191.142 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 05:22:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.191.142] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] really wak moves Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:22:00 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Sep 2000 05:22:01.0227 (UTC) FILETIME=[36B305B0:01C01BB0] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, The penultimate night at worlds in a 2 man circle I asked Lon if he had tried double ducks. He then proceeded to show me a double duck set from toe (he didn't hit anything out of it, but the ducks were clean). Then he showed me his diving spinning set, and came close to a diving-spinning-dive. Then he showed me a ducking dive, or ducking other duck: clipper set followed by a duck, but then going back under with his head the other way. I don't think he did anything bigger than a toe stall out of that, and he said it hurt his neck. This was in the same circle where he hit in front of my slackened jaw: mobius-pdx torque-pdx torque-mobius. That night was a good 3 weeks ago, yet I still have trouble sitting down... CF From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 00:28:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04828 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:28:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matthew Cross Received: from imo-r16.mx.aol.com (imo-r16.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27242 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:34:37 -0700 Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-r16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id z.e3.98d81f9 (15874) for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:33:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web46.aolmail.aol.com (web46.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.7]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.11) with ESMTP; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:33:52 -0400 Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:33:52 EDT Subject: butterfly/ rev whirl (was: [freestyle] Intermediate) To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: Unknown Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20000911023617.17797.qmail@web1301.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id GAA03237 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, Jane said: > or... Ripwalk. Depends on if you consider a reverse whirl (dex window from > the knee) a seperate move from a butterfly I think a good example of the difference between butterfly and reverse whirl is the difference between a clipper set butterfly swirl and a double helix (rev whirling swirl [by the way Yax, I've hit it a few times since worlds ;) ]). Those two moves are VERY different in difficulty, set, balance, and appearance. Evidently for two moves with two basic components each to be so different, the components must be different. I argue that reverse whirl and butterfly are two very different moves. 2¢ Matthew Cross University of Rochester, NY From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 00:28:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04839 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:28:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matthew Cross Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27333 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:37:42 -0700 Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id z.84.a967164 (15868) for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web43.aolmail.aol.com (web43.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.4]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.11) with ESMTP; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:36:57 -0400 Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:36:57 EDT Subject: [freestyle] NYers Shred Phish @ Darien Lake!! To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown Message-ID: <84.a967164.26edc979@aol.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org To all the Western NY Stylers, great and small!! Phish is having a concert at Darien Lake this Thursday, and I personally will be there with my Lavers representing the footbag community in full force. I encourage ALL stylers in the area to come out and shred and see an AMAZING concert (I've seen Phish thrice before, and they blow my mind). Get in touch with me if you're going... I wish I had remembered to bring my business cards to college...). Thanks, Matthew Cross University of Rochester, NY From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 00:29:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04852 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:29:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f173.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.173]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27923 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:05:53 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:05:14 -0700 Received: from 210.223.219.239 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 06:05:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [210.223.219.239] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Freestyle Shoe Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 06:05:14 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <48A772923645D411B54100D0B765CC2130D3E1@INETSRV> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Sep 2000 06:05:14.0276 (UTC) FILETIME=[4046E640:01C01BB6] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Adrian Dick wrote: >Has anyone tried the Customatix Hacky Sack shoe... >They don't look as good as Lavers to me, but I was just curious seeing as >it >is the first ever specifically designed footbag shoe. Well, unless you count the shoes I wear. As for those Customatix things, I couldn't fully express my opinion without breaking some list policies, but the expression 'three coiled turd' sums it up nicely. But then again I haven't kicked in them. -Andrew (Laverless) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 00:30:07 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04865 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:30:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f115.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.115]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28032 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:15:02 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:14:22 -0700 Received: from 210.223.219.239 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 06:14:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [210.223.219.239] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Freestyle Scoring System for Discussion, Codenamed: Extreme Freestyle Event Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 06:14:22 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20000911042811.13736.qmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Sep 2000 06:14:22.0423 (UTC) FILETIME=[86FF7E70:01C01BB7] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jane wrote: >I'd prefer to only have Intermediate and Open(PRO) brackets (period) or >require the same PRO requirements for Open Women bracket... >Speaking of which. Should we get rid of Women's bracket and only have Open >then? In time yes, now no. From your previous posts I thought you were against this? Anyway I would say the physical differences between men and women are of minor significance for footbag, as opposed to say sprinting or basketball. For the time being however there are so few serious women competitors that this would be a bad idea. Let's be realistic, of the women who currently compete how many would be able to make it to the finals at world's? So keep it separate till we finally get enough women players. But, just my opinion. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 00:30:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04876 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:30:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f324.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.236.202]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28953 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:00:09 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:59:30 -0700 Received: from 24.67.226.58 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 06:59:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.67.226.58] From: "Jeff Lopes" To: footbagger@canada.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Weak side Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 06:59:30 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Sep 2000 06:59:30.0532 (UTC) FILETIME=[D5282240:01C01BBD] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Rob, Rob Fuller wrote, >I've been skooling for about 4 months max. and just realized how much I >would like to go pro someday. But I've only been skooling my left(weak) >side for like a month tops. When I practise, I go through everymove I know on BOTH sides equally. Whether its Around the worlds or Paradox Torque's, it doesnt matter, you have to skool BOTH sides. I cant put enough emphasis on this point. >It seems like I'll never catch up to my good side. Your strong side will always be better. Thats why its called a weak side. Keep skoolin hard and have a lot of fun. The more you practise weak side, the more comfortable you will get. You dont want to be hitting blur on one side, and not hitting around the world on the other side! :) Peace Out Jeff Lopes From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 00:31:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04888 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:31:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29295 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:31:46 -0700 Received: from earthlink.net (pool0051.cvx16-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.50.51]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16596 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39BC8A83.F0B1FF4D@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:32:20 -0700 From: Chris Pinkus X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle footbag Subject: Re: [freestyle] first cool tricks (was Re: [freestyle] yeah y'all!!) References: <20000908014131.26225.qmail@web701.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org chris wollick wrote: > besides toe/outside/inside stalls, mine would have to > be catching it in my lap and jestering It would be more of a butterfly kick. Which is better than a jester. Chris Pinkus From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 00:33:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04899 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:33:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29988 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:27:49 -0700 Received: from patti.excite.com ([199.172.148.159]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000911082709.CXNT9840.ewey.excite.com@patti.excite.com> for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:27:09 -0700 Message-ID: <21004789.968660829451.JavaMail.imail@patti.excite.com> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:27:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Wulff Reply-To: To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Answers - Trivia Style 10... buh bye Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 63.23.9.31 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi All... Ironman here to finally and officially wrap up Trivia Style. Sorry for taking longer than any of us would like to officially post the answers to #10 but here I am so let's do this thang... > 1. 4 adds for new schoolers and 3 for old schoolers... who's brainchild > was the "Big Add Posse"? Joey "ZaZa" Schafer came up with the idea for the Big Add Posse. This group was originally formed with the idea that these were the guys "hittin the big adds" and it had nothing to do with official competition. > 2. Worth 1 add each.... Name the members in the first generation(original > members) of BAP... BAP nicknames are required. You will loose 1 add for > every person named who was not an original member. There were Seven Original Members of The Big Add Posse. As follows... Joey "Za-Za" Schafer Dennis "D-Money" Jones Kenny "The Enforcer" Shults "Rippin" Rick Reese Dimitri "Celsone" Tim "StikMan" kelly Peter "The Executioner" Irish > 3. If you can give me an answer within 3(over or under) than you get 3 > adds... How many times had Peter Irish gone "Ground Zero"(dropless) in > singles open freestyle competition? As of this question's original post the count was 17. 17 is the answer. However, you can add one to that total as Peter went "Ground Zero" again in the finals at Funtastik 2000 to take the Funtastik title. Right On Sweet Feet! > 4. 3 adds for new schoolers and 2 for old... What 2 things were similar > about Rick Reese' freestyle routine from 1988 & 1998? 10 years after his first singles world title "Rippin" kicked to the 1. same song(I think it is officially titled "Welcome to the Jungle" and I know it is by Gun's & Roses) and 2. He had the same 2 bag opening which was STILL basically cutting edge stuff 10 years after. > 5. 3 adds... Sam Conlon has won the most open women's singles Freestyle > World Championships. Who has won the most open singles freestyle WC's? > How many? Well, there is a bit of confusion over the answer to this one. Officially by title of event on record Kenny has won 6 Open Freestyle Titles as a Single Competitor. However, one of those titles would be considered a consecutives title by today's standards & one of them he was competing against other teams. Also 2 of them were won when the "World Championships" was actually titled the "Nationals". However, as I said, officially on record he has 6 and according to event records we have already celebrated our 20th World Champs which means all "Nationals" were "World Champs". Anyway, I gave anyone credit who answered either Peter & 5 or Kenny & 6. I also gave 3 bonus points to anyone who knew about the unusual circumstances by which Kenny won a couple of his titles. Now we have One Overall winner and he is the only person to answer the entire Trivia 10 correctly. Congrats to GF Smoothie!!! the first Trivia Style Champion. I will contact you directly regarding your prize Greg. Thank You To everyone for playing... signing off... signing out... Rockin On... Ironman PS - 1.How many dropless routines were there in the 2000 WC's? who? 2. How many dropless routines were there at "The Funtastik Summer Classic" 2000? who? answers below... Final Standings... Aaron Edggerton - 7 Adrian Dick - 14 Alex Ibardaloza - 6 Alex Zerbe - 18.5 Andrew McCarger - 16 Antti Lehikoinen - 8.5 Becca - 72 Bob Green - 37 Brad Kaplin - 28 Brian Kimball - 1 Bryan Fournier - 2 Cole Hobson - 6 Cory Current - 24 Danny Cardonne - 4 Dave Reid - 7 Dennis Lee - 3 Derric Schroeder - 4 Eli Piltz - *** +2 Eric "Wicked" Windsor - 17 Ernest Crvch - 7 GF Smoothie - 78 Ian Dubman - 35.5 Iisak Liukko - 12.5 James Roberts - 15 Jeremiah J. Riley - 6 Jon Schneider - 76.5 Ken "Ceiling Fan" Semolinos - 66 MatthewL329@aol.com - 2 Mickey Mayer - 5 Mike Stoler - 4 Phillip Summers - 3 Sam Colchough - 6 Scott "The Enlightener" Davidson - 11 Sebastian Duchesne - 10 Shredstein - 7 Stan Sagalovskiy - 8 Tina Lewis - 16 Tuan Vu - 17 Tu Vu - 6 Ville Laakso - 24 Vince Bradley - 44.5 Yacine - 9 answers from PS above... 1. 3, In the Intermediate WC Finals... The only intermediate routine in history dropless. Sorry I forgot your name but you Rocked! If anyone can reply with that name I would appreciate it... :) Semifinals Open WC's... Eric Wulff, Finals WC's... Ryan Mulroney 2. 3, Semi's Tastik... Eric Wulff & Ryan Mulroney, finals Tastik... Peter Irish PSS - I do believe these were the only dropless routines in the entire 2000 footbag season. _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 00:33:25 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04911 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:33:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA30059 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:28:07 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.21.169.241]) by lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000911082757.KARM22866.lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:27:57 -0700 Message-ID: <39BC98CC.CDCE6192@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 03:33:16 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Teachers? References: <20000908051825.16793.qmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org James Risden wrote: > > --- Matthew Cross wrote: > > video on that > > I've seen on Footbag.org or Dallasfootbag.com. > > Totally, thats how I learned. I heard thats how Brian > Mckenzie learned too (WARNING: possibly just a rumor). To all of you people out there that enjoy the video clips... Get a full length tape. I was first introduced to footbag by the clips of Rippin on footbag.org (was that guilt in there?). From there, I picked up as many shred tapes as I could - Raw Shred, '96 Shred, '97 Shred, Shredded Wheat, UQAM Jam, Skool Daze, Rye Shred, Sultans of Shred, and Shredded Documents. I'm sure I'm leaving out a few, but you get the point. Video clips are of a single run and the quality isn't that great. Get a video and you'll be impressed with a full 45-90 minutes of solid freestyle action. > I also have a question. Has anyone ever hit pdx > barroque, or blurry barroque? That would be sick! It WAS sick when Ahren hit blurriest to pdx barroque on one of the above mentioned tapes. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was at '97 Worlds in Portland. Possibly on '97 Shred? Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 00:35:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04923 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:35:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dns1.provide.net (root@dns1.provide.net [216.86.64.33]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02983 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 05:58:59 -0700 Received: from scratchyball.mcraig.org (matt@usr04-092.provide.net [216.86.66.220]) by dns1.provide.net (8.9.0/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA24593; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 08:58:33 -0400 (EDT) From: matt craig To: Rob Fuller , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Weak side or SKOOL BOTH SIDES Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 08:44:36 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain References: <20000911035738.2364.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00091108542407.10461@scratchyball.mcraig.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 10 Sep 2000, Rob Fuller wrote: > I was just wondering how long most of you were shredding before you >actually got serious about footbag and started to REALLY work on your weak Four years, at least. But I saw the value of BOTH SIDES early on. Even when I was just doing inside, outside, and clipper kicks. I did them on both sides. Make sure you can do the easy ones on both sides as well, it will make the hard ones easier on both sides. >much I would like to go pro someday. But I've only been skooling my left(weak) >side for like a month tops. It seems like I'll never catch up to my good side. Stop leaving your weak side out! If you can do ten ATWs or clippers on the strong side don't quit your session until you've done ten on the weak side. >will never catch up even though I know it will if I skool it really really >hard. You don't need advice. You already know the secret, "skool it really really hard." matt -- MichiganFootbag.org From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 00:36:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04934 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:36:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [194.221.183.20]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA09614 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:18:52 -0700 Received: (qmail 26911 invoked by uid 0); 11 Sep 2000 18:18:19 -0000 Received: from blndi5-212-144-128-184.arcor-ip.net (HELO quarktasche) (212.144.128.184) by mail.gmx.net with SMTP; 11 Sep 2000 18:18:19 -0000 Message-ID: <00a601c01c1c$896f2b00$b88090d4@quarktasche> From: "Matthias Lino Schmidt" To: References: <20000911023617.17797.qmail@web1301.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Intermediate Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 20:17:24 +0200 Organization: Schmidt Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Good evening, second mail today........ I think there's something really wrong being written down (by Jane)...... > or... Ripwalk. Never! A reverse whirl is absolutely different from a butterfly. It's no question of considering, it's a question of doing both moves and feeling the difference. Sorry for sounding rough, but rev. whirl is one of my favorites and I could never let it be eradicated by saying it's the same as silly butterfly. -will stop writing to the list over and over now- Matthias............... From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 00:37:31 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04947 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:37:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA16055 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 14:49:25 -0700 Received: (qmail 1847 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Sep 2000 22:09:53 -0000 Message-ID: <20000911220953.1846.qmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20000911035738.2364.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> Received: from [32.101.16.236] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:09:53 PDT Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:09:53 -0700 (PDT) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] Weak side To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Rob Fuller wrote: > Or did you > all start out using both sides. Start out using both sides, that way you'll never have a weakside. There is nothing cooler than mirroring all your phat moves in your combos. (other than mirroring your phat combos in your combos) :) Later, Jamez From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 01:10:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA05065 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 01:10:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1306.mail.yahoo.com (web1306.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.156]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA20607 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 17:29:20 -0700 Received: (qmail 6825 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Sep 2000 00:29:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20000912002910.6824.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <00a601c01c1c$896f2b00$b88090d4@quarktasche> Received: from [63.23.252.228] by web1306.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 17:29:10 PDT Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 17:29:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Reply-To: janejones2000@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] Intermediate To: Matthias Lino Schmidt , freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ahh-ha...my desired results. ;-) I'm just messin' around Matthias. > I think there's something really wrong being written > down (by Jane)...... > > > or... Ripwalk. > > Never! A reverse whirl is absolutely different from > a butterfly. It's no > question of considering, it's a question of doing > both moves and feeling the > difference. You can have your reverse whirl ;-) Reverse whirl is definitely more of a dyno-like dex (from the knee) than a butterfly dex (from the hip). Derric Scalf and I actually spoke about it in another email and I think he's going to be adding reverse whirl moves to the move list he maintains. No worries. Who said butterflies are silly? are you dissin' my bread and butter? ;-) See ya, Jane From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 01:31:28 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA05104 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 01:31:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1306.mail.yahoo.com (web1306.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.156]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA21187 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 17:44:30 -0700 Received: (qmail 8733 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Sep 2000 00:44:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20000912004420.8732.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <001001c01a8c$328207e0$318090d4@quarktasche> Received: from [63.23.252.228] by web1306.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 17:44:20 PDT Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 17:44:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Reply-To: janejones2000@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping opp. rev. whirl and pendulum set (was: Re: [freestyle] Intermediate) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hmmm.... Matthias Lino Schmidt wrote: > I remember a recent post to the list saying reverse > whirl can't be paradox, > and I tend to agree. I don't claim to hit blurry reverse whirl, but anyone who thinks it's a valid move that can be hit (from original post), ought to also support that pdx reverse whirl CAN be hit. To me, blurry set implies paradox. stepping implies same side. some would disagree with me on that. that's okay ;-) See ya, Jane From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 05:23:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA05541 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 05:23:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailgate.novagate.net (IDENT:root@mailgate.novagate.net [205.138.138.22]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25688 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 20:23:16 -0700 Received: from novagate.net (002gra107.chartermi.net [24.247.2.107]) by mailgate.novagate.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id XAA00817; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:22:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39BDA326.F5C2E898@novagate.net> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:29:43 -0400 From: ryan masuga Reply-To: masuga@novagate.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: derric@dallasfootbag.org CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Teachers? References: <20000908051825.16793.qmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> <39BC98CC.CDCE6192@dallasfootbag.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey y'all, Video tapes are fine, if a little mind-numbing after awhile. I would argue that the "quality" isn't THAT much better than anything I've downloaded off the net. Some of the video clips I have are all but unwatchable! I mean, VHS, c'mon, LOOK at it! It looks like crap! I think for slo-mo and frame by frame, the stuff off the net kicks video's (VHS) ass. I'm using a Mac and Quicktime 4.x and the videos are much smoother than on my parent's IBM PC piece of crap, with Windoze Media Player of whatever garbage Microsoft is feeding the uninitiated. When I want to watch a single move or combo, I use the Web material (and sometimes video) but I think video/VHS is better for watching the flow of strings - which may be far too large to put on, or download from, the Web. ryan masuga 3cFD/NYFA PS Can't wait 'til everyone out there filming has pure digital...that would be good for everybody. Derric Scalf wrote: > To all of you people out there that enjoy the video clips... Get a full > length tape. I was first introduced to footbag by the clips of Rippin > on footbag.org (was that guilt in there?). From there, I picked up as > many shred tapes as I could - Raw Shred, '96 Shred, '97 Shred, Shredded > Wheat, UQAM Jam, Skool Daze, Rye Shred, Sultans of Shred, and Shredded > Documents. I'm sure I'm leaving out a few, but you get the point. > Video clips are of a single run and the quality isn't that great. Get a > video and you'll be impressed with a full 45-90 minutes of solid > freestyle action. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 07:33:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05706 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 07:33:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from gigi.excite.com (gigi.excite.com [199.172.152.110]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28650 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:29:08 -0700 Received: from sammy ([199.172.153.124]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000912062828.TZZ13275.gigi.excite.com@sammy> for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:28:28 -0700 Message-ID: <24410957.968740108191.JavaMail.imail@sammy> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:28:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Davidson To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Freestyle Scoring System for Discussion, Codenamed: Extreme Freestyle Event Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 207.208.141.118 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! I have replied to my own post with some more comments I have come up with and on specific items in the system. I have also compiled some of the comments from the replies so far... Discussion about APP's: The Additional Presentation Points given under this system are a quantifiable method of rewarding players for their presentation efforts (rather than judging on a curve as is done now). I say we call them APPs, for "Additional Presentation Points". Derric mentions that some moves like Gimping moves might be discouraged under a system that is so add-centric... we have an opportunity to change this. We should consider specifically what qualifies for an APP. A Gimp is what I would call an "intermediary" contact, (can you think of other moves that are not Gimping that have an intermediary contact?) and that could be the basis for the APP on the Gimp. In an effort to encourage moves like Gimp, perhaps we could say that "intermediary" contacts don't count, thereby making gimping moves a single contact. Things that get APPs are open to debate, I had put together a list for my initial post, and I would like to add one concept... that players who perform "matched pairs" of moves on both sides (maybe within 4 contacts and in same string) should get an APP for each contact in the matched pair, to be given out only the first time they do the matched pair. Hey, we could even do a separate event for the player who can rattle off the most APP's (or ASP's, see below), the "Style" shred. Here's something I thought of that I thought might be a flaw in the system... the only direct benefit we get from doing high add moves is our ratio, which gets adjusted for drops and multiplied by number of unique tricks. What I didn't want to happen was to give the numerical advantage to someone who could bust out 100 infinities in a row, but by multiplying the ratio times the unique moves (above a certain level, depending on category) we eliminate that possibility. We encourage the high add ratios and at the same time variety (without obsessing about which unique moves went into which category). Keep in mind that all add-contacts get counted toward your ratio, but only unique moves over a certain level (2's for intermediates and 3's for women) will qualify as unique moves towards your score. Not to mention that adds come into play again in the linking score, so that is plenty of weight for adds. That was just me typing out loud. All is well as it was initially proposed. Sorry to babble, I thought I was going to talk myself into changing my proposal as it applies to this, but I think by keeping it as it is, we have achieved the goals for that part of the system. Jane said: >A QUESTION: What if a drop happens obviously in the > middle of the string. Is the player indirectly > penalized for the drop by counting his/her string as 2 > strings now instead of one? Directly. >Do the judges recognize > that this was still all part of one string when they > start up again by trying the same trick they dropped > on and only penalize them by .25 x 1 drop? Or do they > get a double whammy? D'oh! It is intended to be a double whammy. Drops need to be penalized heavily. A Drop is a clear "break" in a string. No matter what the player intends, if they throw in a move that is below the threshold for their category, then that string is over. We need a system that forces players to balance risk-taking. Remember one of the intentions of the system is to cleanly perform the largest variety of difficult tricks... the word "cleanly" was a veiled reference to drops/slops. > I like this idea too. The only thing I disagree on is > including Women's Open with Intermediate scoring. I'd > prefer to only have Intermediate and Open(PRO) > brackets (period) or require the same PRO requirements > for Open Women bracket. There are women competitors > perfectly able to make the PRO specifications you > gave...it will just force more of us to have planned > routines in competition to do well and the others > might want to consider competing Intermediate instead. Oops! I didn't mean to lump women in with intermediates. I think women should have their own category... hopefully it will be large enough eventually to have to split up the players by level of play... but for the forseeable future, we will have only one level of competition available for them (it would be a good thing for that to change). One of the main benefits of this system is that the governing body for the sport (IFC) can periodically review aspects relating to the base requirements in a routine so they can be adjusted to apply to "what is happening" in the real world of freestyle. Derric Scalf wrote: > Any time you have a judging system that emphasises difficulty, the ADD > system is used. My question is this: How much "style" do you think is > lost by calculating difficulty scores based on the number of adds? The add system isn't as broken as its opponents would have you believe. It is a GREAT indicator of difficulty for the most part. We have an opportunity here to introduce MADDS (modified adds) where certain moves, for no other reason than "we all agree these moves are harder" (it would be a fun exercise in futility at the IFC meeting every year trying to lobby people on why "this" or "that" new move deserves a MADD). After all, the system still richly rewards (in direct, uncalculated, non-formulized points) the presentation in the routine. The style is NOT supposed to be measured by calculating difficulty EVER. Style is calculated under APP's, and to some extent, linking. Maybe instead of "Presentation" we should call it "Style", but then APP's would be ASP's, but what the heck difference does a word make? What do you think, Style is the best substitute word I have pondered (for "Presentation"). > One example would be the loss of gimpy moves. The knee bump in the > middle of the move would be a tilt - which would hurt your add/contat > ratio as well as end your string. Double whammy, d'oh! Also, frigid > type moves or moves caught on a dragon. And the classic, "toe blizzard > = osis = atom smasher". Cross-body outside could get an UNUSUAL (I think it should anyway, heck how many 1-add moves or better were done ending on an outside contact, besides Jonathon, not many, pretty unusual if you ask me... so what if it is a basic kick, it is an unusual delay). > > TOTAL SCORE = Compostion Score + Linking Score + Presentation Score > > ADJUSTED RATIO = (Adds divided by Contacts) minus (.25 x Number of Drops) > > COMPOSTION SCORE = Adjusted Ratio x # of Unique Moves > > LINKING SCORE = Adds divided by "Number of Strings" > I'm thinking that any error in the ADD system would be multiplied in > each of the three sub-categories. There's not really that much error in the ADD system, and it can be compensated elsewhere, and/or corrected prior to implementation of any new system. Thanks for your comments! See ya! Scott Davidson enlightener@footbag.org _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 07:34:03 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05717 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 07:34:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28150 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:51:14 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.21.169.241]) by lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000912055104.IUPP22866.lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:51:04 -0700 Message-ID: <39BDC598.27248C22@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:56:40 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping opp. rev. whirl and pendulum set (was: Re: [freestyle] Intermediate) References: <001f01c0184b$0cfe9a80$798090d4@quarktasche> <39B710C2.25DD3F18@dallasfootbag.org> <001001c01a8c$328207e0$318090d4@quarktasche> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Matthias Lino Schmidt wrote: > > I remember a recent post to the list saying reverse whirl can't be paradox, Yeah... there was a recent post _proposing_ that a reverse whirl could not be paradox. However, there were a lot of good arguments for allowing the paradox add. Because of this, a few moves have been added to the move list on http://www.footbag.org/freestyle/ Paradox Reverse Whirl - 4 ADDs Paradox Symposium Reverse Whirl - 5 ADDs Blurry Reverse Whirl - 5 ADDs There are others, they just haven't been added yet. So, what do you people think? Can reverse whirl be paradox? ...good one Jane. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 17:16:41 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06396 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:16:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f230.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.230]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA01237 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 02:32:46 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 02:32:07 -0700 Received: from 212.185.249.186 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:32:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [212.185.249.186] From: "Kai Kleinewig" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] a short "hello" Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:32:07 CEST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Sep 2000 09:32:07.0092 (UTC) FILETIME=[514E0F40:01C01C9C] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello World, I just want to introduce myself to let you know, I'm there. I am a new hacker from the great Harz-Mountains in germany, hacking the bag since TEN.... weeks! Ok, it's not really long but I can do an "around the world" with BOTH LEGS. (No, not simultaneous (but, good idea, isn't it))... and some other easy-beginner-tricks. First I thought I'm too old to start footbag with 27. But now I think it's ok. At least it's no question about age but about fun! Now it doesn't matter anymore because I'm already addicted. In this list I try not to blow my mind when I'm reading your postings about tricks called: "paradox-reverse-backflip-whirl-spin-while-drink-a-cup-of-coffee-and-clean-up-the-kitchen-symposium-backward-juggling-with-both-legs-in-a-cast-and-one-finger-in-your-nose"... or something like that. I love it :-))) And also try not to blow YOUR mind with my messages (like this one :-). I hope I can learn a lot of you and meet you one day at any event. Ok, now you know I'm there and when you read any postings in "german-english" with strange contents.... it's me! Kai From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 17:17:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06408 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:17:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f178.hotmail.com [209.185.131.241]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05380 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 07:22:50 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 07:22:10 -0700 Received: from 62.226.107.163 by lw1fd.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:22:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [62.226.107.163] From: "Fabian Kollakowski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping opp. rev. whirl Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:22:09 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <39BDC598.27248C22@dallasfootbag.org> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Sep 2000 14:22:10.0088 (UTC) FILETIME=[D64C8280:01C01CC4] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org derric asked : >So, what do you people think? Can reverse whirl be paradox? id say no, it shouldnt. just compare infinity to reverse whirl...rev whirl is only *slightly* harder i think... in my opinion, it does not deserve and extra add, and it would be unfair to consider both "PS whirl" and "PS rev whirl"(not that hard actually) 5 adds. just my "2 cents" eheh fabian From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 17:18:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06423 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:18:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f184.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.184]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07214 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:46:47 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:46:07 -0700 Received: from 128.206.120.240 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:46:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping opp. rev. whirl Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:46:07 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <39BDC598.27248C22@dallasfootbag.org> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Sep 2000 15:46:07.0728 (UTC) FILETIME=[90F75F00:01C01CD0] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derric Scalf wrote: >So, what do you people think? Can reverse whirl be paradox? No, I don't think so. It is the same dex direction as a butterfly. Though it is not the same move, it, basically, would be jingus to give it paradox over b-fly and barfly type moves. I could explain further, but why bother with even more details which are strictly opinion... Later Ian From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 17:41:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06518 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:41:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ems.salk.edu (ems.salk.edu [198.202.69.12]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09052 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:55:07 -0700 Received: from [198.202.67.188] (198.202.67.188) by ems.salk.edu (Worldmail 1.3.167) for freestyle@footbag.org; 12 Sep 2000 09:56:41 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:52:20 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Cameron Kennedy Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Freestyle Scoring System for Discussion, Codenamed: Extreme Freestyle Event Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Scott wrote >Please consider this system, and reply to the list with feedback. I have >been invisible on this listserve for a long time, but I'm back now, with a >vengeance (sp?). Please accept my apologies for this long post, but what >the heck, I'm making up for lost bandwidth... :-) > >Thanks! > >See ya! >Scott Davidson >IFC, Freestyle Committee Chair >enlightener@footbag.org I continue to believe that the best way to score events is by computer. I don't follow the need for judges counting unique moves and adds. This is difficult and error prone. I proposed that scoring systems be based on determining the list of moves hit. A list of moves is much easier to double check than re counting uniques and adds. Using moves as the judging criteria instead of adds and uniques, you only need to have a group of judges determining the list of moves hit, and a set of judges for presentation etc. I also have a new scoring idea using a reductive value approach rather than a unique move approach. Such that the first two times a move is hit, it has a value of 1.0* add_value, and then the next time the value is reduced by dividing by q log (n), where n is the number of times the move has been hit, and m and q is a modifier. value=adds/q log n . Thus the score can be reduced down to a sum of values, all determined from the list of moves hit. Cameron From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 19:20:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06645 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:20:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from davisbrody.com (mail.davisbrody.com [205.253.194.181]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11230 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:37:14 -0700 Received: from davisbrody.com [209.73.237.244] by davisbrody.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.04) id A87225C0218; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:39:46 -0400 Message-ID: <39BE77B3.A89F8CB4@davisbrody.com> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:36:35 -0400 From: Bruce Dole X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] women and footbag References: <24410957.968740108191.JavaMail.imail@sammy> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, > > I think women > should have their own category... hopefully it will be large enough > eventually to have to split up the players by level of play... but for the > forseeable future, we will have only one level of competition available for > them (it would be a good thing for that to change). I'm just selecting this small excerpt from Scott's proposal to launch my personal views on women, competition, and footbag. Sounds risky...but what the hell. Assumption: there are physical differences between the sexes that are the reasons (besides sexism) for dividing most sports by sex. But none of them really apply to footbag. As a matter of fact, I really feel that if anything, women may have an advantage, physically, over men in footbag. For example... men (on average) have greater upper body strength. Upper body strength isn't all that relevant in footbag. Men also generally have longer limbs than women, so comparisons on track events are rarely made between the sexes. But leg length can't be that big a factor in footbag, since huge amounts of talent lie (in equal amounts?) at all points of the height spectrum. Men generally have a higher center of gravity, since their excess fat storage centers around the waistline, while women's centers around the hips, which are wider than men's to begin with. A high center of gravity is a drawback in footbag if anything, the lower the center of gravity the better ( try standing in a canoe while paddling, and see how stable you are.) I guess what I'm saying is that this is a women's sport (sorry guys). There's just a lot more men that play it, probably because of some gender role of competitiveness. That's probably the case with a lot of sports... that's another story. The question is, how do we let the women out there know this, and introduce them to (shameless promotion imminent) the coolest sport in the world? "Keep playing," for one; but that's an easy answer to a lot of problems. Maybe just encourage more women to play, on a local level? Make sure not to create a "guys only" atmosphere when playing in public? Be nice, supportive? I'll bet that I've been guilty of breaking both those rules myself (hey, I'm a jerky New Yorker!) so maybe it's not as simple as it sounds. I'm not sure if I would do anything to change the way that competition is organized, at least at this point. But ultimately, I think total integration is the way to go, not because women don't "deserve" a separate category, but because there's definitely no physical distinction that warrants it. And it would be another way to set this sport apart, from the beginning, from so many other ones wherein women were largely excluded until it became "economically viable" for their talents to be displayed. Whaddya think? Anybody mad? A plethora of humble opinions, Bruce Dole (NYFA) "Hefe, what is a plethora? " -El Guapo, Three Amigos From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 19:27:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06688 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:27:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net ([207.160.174.55]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11454 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:49:04 -0700 Received: from [207.160.174.20] (HELO [207.160.174.20]) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.2.4) with ESMTP id 120606 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:48:22 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:48:11 -0700 Subject: [freestyle] Computerized Scoring (A new fork of Scott's Scoring System thread) From: Derrick Fogle To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org on 9/12/00 10:52 AM, Cameron Kennedy at ckennedy@ems.salk.edu wrote: > I continue to believe that the best way to score events is by computer. I > don't follow the need for judges counting unique moves and adds. This is I think we are using computers for scoring. But we have yet to reach the level of just having to tell the computer "this move, that move, this move, that move" and have it do the rest. I think the libraries that fully describe each move, and how one move would have an effect on another move before or after it, are a long way from being complete. Then, there's always yoyos like me that would disagree with what the libraries contain. There are other 'problems' like getting the data into the computer as fast as they are happening. The only solution I can think of for that is voice recognition. That technology has gotten pretty good, but I think it would still be a case of 'close but not quite'. I don't think anyone could have accurately spoken every name of every move that Ryan did at Worlds this year in real time. Everyone would be a bit suspicious of whether everything was properly interpreted and recorded. It might not be any worse that what we have now, but people would still have different expectations of such a system, and there would be fewer people to bear the brunt of accusations of inaccuracies aimed at such systems. Being a database systems developer myself, I don't think the footbag community can 'afford' the development of such a limited application. It seems like we do pretty well applying our resources (Steve & crew) on what they are already doing. Either someone with significant experience will have to donate time and energy, or it will have to go un-done. And as much as I'm intrigued by the project, I'm not going to do it as long as I've got a family to care for and people willing to pay me for my time. Scott's system seems reasonably straightforward; it looks more like an evolution of our current system than anything else. His specific suggestion of having one person at a computer keyboard entering adds, contacts, and drops and having the computer add and compile them is a very easily developed thing. You'd never have to take your hand off the numeric keypad, and anyone can learn enough 10-key by touch to be pretty accurate. add value, enter add value, enter enter (non-add contact) spacebar, enter (drop) That would be a piece of cake. The 'libraries' would reside in the players heads, and they just have to plop the results into the computer. Even I could have probably fairly accurately scored Ryan's routine with a system like that. At one time, I was even working on a keyboard-chorded system that could have been fast enough to input full moves in real time. It was based on using each hand to represent what each foot did. It recorded dexterity directions, body motions, and contact surfaces and types. With the data, it could identify add-content and add-category uniqueness and add up adds, add contacts, and the unique move totals for each add category. But, it never got very far. The 'system' was just in an infantile development stage when I lost the desire to make it work. It would have taken years to debug and optimize to the point of true useability. And unless I could have come in and run the whole thing myself for a couple of years alongside the 'old' way to prove the system, no one would have trusted it. I didn't want to be stuck just judging freestyle for the rest of my life. Today, I don't judge freestyle at all. I just do freestyle. I'm sure we'll get to the 'full meal deal' system eventually, but lets take a few do-able steps rather than set our sights on that full meal deal system right away. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 19:33:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06708 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:33:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from footbag (kc78u4hel.dial.kolumbus.fi [193.229.154.78]) by smtp2.kolumbus.fi (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA26022 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:50:00 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <029801c01cea$fa060f40$8c9ae5c1@footbag.pp.kolumbus.fi> In-Reply-To: <21004789.968660829451.JavaMail.imail@patti.excite.com> Reply-To: "Finnish Footbag Association" From: "Justin Sexton" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Answers - Trivia Style 10... buh bye Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:55:10 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Triviaman wrote: >In the Intermediate WC Finals... The only intermediate routine in >history dropless. Sorry I forgot your name but you Rocked! If anyone can >reply with that name I would appreciate it... :) It was Jere Linnanen from Finland. He actually did not miss a trick in hes routine, which I think is even more amazing. He is also the youngest player in history to go dropless in competition. BTW, he was very close not making the cut to Team Finland, I am so glad he did. Thank you for the awesome trivia Eric, it has been a so much fun to follow and even all the way here in Finland we have had lot of good discussions from it. Justin Sexton Finnish Footbag Association From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 22:26:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06983 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:26:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ems.salk.edu (ems.salk.edu [198.202.69.12]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12959; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:58:56 -0700 Received: from [198.202.67.188] (198.202.67.188) by ems.salk.edu (Worldmail 1.3.167); 12 Sep 2000 13:00:30 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:56:06 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Cameron Kennedy Subject: Re: [freestyle] Computerized Scoring (A new fork of Scott's Scoring System thread) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derrick wrote > >I think we are using computers for scoring. But we have yet to reach the >level of just having to tell the computer "this move, that move, this move, >that move" and have it do the rest. > It took about 2 hours to write my first scoring application from scratch. Worked on a string of move names. Now i am rewritting with the emphasis on readability and maintainability instead of speed. >I think the libraries that fully describe each move, and how one move would >have an effect on another move before or after it, are a long way from being >complete. Then, there's always yoyos like me that would disagree with what >the libraries contain. > I disagree. I already wrote such modules, in Perl. They are easy to write. you pass them a move, and they return an object .Call object methods to access the attributes of such a move. barfly for example use Footbag::Move; $move=Footbag::Move->new(barfly); print $move->adds;print "\n"; print $move->name;print "\n"; print $move->tech;print "\n"; print $move->dex;print "\n"; print $move->spins;print "\n"; print $move->wordy;print "\n"; print $move->catch;print "\n"; print $move->side;print "\n"; print $move->body;print "\n"; print $move->symposium;print "\n"; print $move->paradox;print "\n"; print $move->flier;print "\n"; __END__ OUTPUT 4 Barfly CLIP > SAME OUT [DEX] > SAME OUT [DEX] > OP CLIP [XBD] [DEL] 2 0 >From a cliper delay set bring the setting leg straight from the clipper around the footbag from out to in twice. Hop off the support leg as your bring the setting leg down to a clipper delay with the support leg. CLIP OP 0 0 0 Not Yet Coded ------------------ i also have other modules that can update the movelist from the website,update the data file for the move attribtues, and handle strings of moves so now i just have to write the scoring module. >There are other 'problems' like getting the data into the computer as fast >as they are happening. Shorthand and a knowledge of the keyboard should be sufficient. >Being a database systems developer myself, I don't think the footbag >community can 'afford' the development of such a limited application. I am not going for the full fledged C++ standalone footbag scoring application. I envision something much simpler, a Platform independant perlscript that gives accurate results in a visually attractive format, freely distributed. > And unless I could have come in >and run the whole thing myself for a couple of years alongside the 'old' way >to prove the system, no one would have trusted it. Which is why i never expect people to use anything i write, i just like to know it's there. Like derrick said, nobody will use it because they don't trust it, and there is no money in writting it, so of course it has a priority somewhat less that cleaning the refridgerator. I would expect to have something ready for the community to play with in around 2 months minimum. cameron From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 12 22:25:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06978 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:25:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ems.salk.edu (ems.salk.edu [198.202.69.12]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12481 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:42:15 -0700 Received: from [198.202.67.188] (198.202.67.188) by ems.salk.edu (Worldmail 1.3.167); 12 Sep 2000 12:43:46 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <39BE7F30.C28183FF@davisbrody.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:39:25 -0800 To: Bruce Dole From: Cameron Kennedy Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Freestyle Scoring System for Discussion, Codenamed: Extreme Freestyle Event Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Bruce Wrote >I like it! I think taking the human error factor out of competition will >eliminate a lot of bruised egos and unconscious favoritism. I think variety >is an extremely important element of a routine, and should be heavily >factored >into the score. When you say the first "two" times a move is hit, is two an >arbitrary number or do you mean "two" as in once on one's left side and >once on >the right? I think that a move hit on the "other" side should be rewarded as >though it were a new move, but maybe that's what you were saying. This system >would also reward people for learning new sets, because once you learn a new >set there's a lot of new moves at your fingertips (toetips?), each of which >will help your score. (I'd like to see more both-sided atomic and pixie set >stuff, like "infinity" style atom-smasher, or offside smudge...) > >Bruce >NYFA I say 2 and mean an arbitrary number. Not once each side, but the same exact move twice. Thus keeping everone honest. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 14 05:02:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09378 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 05:02:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f6.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.6]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14870 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:23:00 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:22:20 -0700 Received: from 128.148.191.142 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:22:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.191.142] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "KeN Somolinos" To: ash__18@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping opp. rev. whirl Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:22:20 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Sep 2000 21:22:20.0490 (UTC) FILETIME=[88DE92A0:01C01CFF] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Fab and others. >derric asked : > > >Can reverse whirl be paradox? > >id say no, it shouldnt. >just compare infinity to reverse whirl...rev whirl is only *slightly* >harder >i think... >in my opinion, it does not deserve and extra add, and it would be unfair to >consider both "PS whirl" and "PS rev whirl"(not that hard actually) 5 adds. Adds. Don't. Equal. Difficulty. Even if opp rev whirl were 30 times harder than pdx whirl, it still wouldn't translate into an extra add. I personally don't see a justifiable hip pivot with reverse whirl which would give it a pdx. Adds mean so incredibly little in this sport. The longer you play, and the more moves you hit, the more combos you link, the more apparent this becomes. Shred styly, Ken CF Somolinos From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 14 05:03:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09393 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 05:03:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web2003.mail.yahoo.com (web2003.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.203]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA14604 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:13:02 -0700 Received: (qmail 17683 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Sep 2000 21:12:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20000912211247.17682.qmail@web2003.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <39BDC598.27248C22@dallasfootbag.org> Received: from [209.129.28.18] by web2003.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:12:47 PDT Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:12:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping opp. rev. whirl To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Shredders, > So, what do you people think? Can reverse whirl be paradox? I can't believe this is under debate. I think Chad thought of the term "far" to distinguish between osises and reverse blenders based on where they are set from. I think it applies to reverse whirls also. > Paradox Reverse Whirl - 4 ADDs Paradox Symposium Reverse Whirl - 5 ADDs Blurry Reverse Whirl - 5 ADDs What the fuck are you thinking? I don't believe it; this can't be happening; I'm gonna go read a book; will somebody wake me up when this is over? Eli Piltzzzzz From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 14 05:05:12 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09412 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 05:05:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.119]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16997 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:38:48 -0700 Received: from storefull-617.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-617.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.58]) by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id CF21A1A55; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from production@localhost) by storefull-617.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id PAA09630; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:38:38 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRWThD20Qei7Pt2Q8yxfdUG0bNJfAIUOLoJRqlUbfQCAx3eBURbWSFHDFc= From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:38:38 -0400 (EDT) To: linoschmidt@gmx.net (Matthias Lino Schmidt) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping opp. rev. whirl and pendulum set (was: Re: [freestyle] Intermediate) Message-ID: <13731-39BEB06E-11865@storefull-617.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: <001001c01a8c$328207e0$318090d4@quarktasche> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Matthias sayz: >I know this is no new idea, I saw Lon >Smith doing pendulum dragonfly in Paris, >but it seems to be not noted or used by >many shredders, that's the reason for >this post. Kept waiting for somebody to say this, guess it's up to me ( if i can actually get one past the moderator ). Nice idea, BUT the moves on your list are TWO contacts not one. Keeping that in mind, you can adjust the ADDS accordingly. Godfather michiganfootbag.org From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 14 05:09:32 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09428 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 05:09:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17773 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:09:41 -0700 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000912230910.BFMO14250.kuku.excite.com@chilly.excite.com>; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:09:10 -0700 Message-ID: <58355.968800150023.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> In-Reply-To: <39BE77B3.A89F8CB4@davisbrody.com> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:09:10 -0700 (PDT) From: yorghos carabas To: Bruce Dole , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] women and footbag Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 131.216.93.12 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Not many people liked my last opinion, but i do like your idea of women and men in the same categories. There isn't much reason to separate the sexes; unless the women really want to be in a different category. Just one thing, men don't nanturally have stronger upperbodies than women; its just that men begin playing sports earlier and workout; i know many women who have bigger arms and stronger chests/backs than i do, and i workout everyday. They just put in the effort; plus most women don't want to look like arnold schwarzzaneagar; but i do belive that any woman who practices as much as a man at anything can do it exactly as well. _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 14 05:17:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09473 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 05:17:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1306.mail.yahoo.com (web1306.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.156]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA25206 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:27:21 -0700 Received: (qmail 16443 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Sep 2000 03:27:11 -0000 Message-ID: <20000913032711.16442.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.168.248.1] by web1306.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:27:11 PDT Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:27:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Reply-To: janejones2000@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping opp. rev. whirl To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I had planned to step out of this discussion, but... Okay, I was joking when I said a blurry reverse whirl is just a different style of ripwalk. Everyone jumps on the list saying...no way! reverse whirl is definitely a seperate move from butterfly and much more difficult. Now, we have excepted reverse whirl as it's own move. NOW, everyone is saying it can't be paradox and is comparing it to an infinity (which, let me remind you is just a clipper set butterfly) Some of you missed where I mentioned that pdx whirl is possible *if* you think it is a different move from butterfly. I also said it would be extremely easy to be **sloppy** with it. you'd have to pivot as much as you do with pdx whirl, not like an infinity (clipper set butterfly)...it'd have to be to the side of you like the pdx whirl, not in front of you like the infinity. if you don't think blurry reverse whirl or pdx reverse whirl is possible, then I'd have to retreat to my original post that reverse whirl is simply a butterfly...especially if people are going to be comparing a pdx reverse whirl to an infinity. otherwise, it would be hypocritical. whatever...I don't really care, I don't do reverse whirls (and, for those in question, yes I can...) this is a topic that could never end...i'm outtie 5000. adios, jane From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 14 05:18:58 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09488 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 05:18:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27509 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:31:44 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.21.169.241]) by lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000913063133.OTUG22866.lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:31:33 -0700 Message-ID: <39BF20A9.B89F10CE@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 01:37:29 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Computerized Scoring (A new fork of Scott's Scoring System thread) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Cameron Kennedy wrote: > > I would expect to have something > ready for the community to play with in around 2 months minimum. Sweet. I'm looking forward to it. Despite what some people say, I don't think it would be all that hard to enter a string correctly. Even if it can't be done real-time, it would still work as fast as the current system. Plus, you get rid of the human error. And, the biggest bonus is that you can apply any scoring system with ease (even your proposed wacked out log formula). :) Once we get a nice program, we can start trying to come up with an accurate way to rate difficulty. Face it people... the ADD system doesn't reflect difficulty all that well. With a computerized judging system, you could simultaneously use 20 different scoring techniques. After a few trial runs, we might be able to find a scoring system that reflects difficulty a little better than the current ADD system. Because of the work Cameron is doing here, the sport will grow. Keep it up! -Derric (the one without the 'k') DFC P.S... in case you don't know... Cameron doesn't just think about this stuff. He also plays. http://dallasfootbag.org/multimedia/99worlds-a/CameronKennedy.html This is an older video (99 Worlds), and I'm sure he is hitting even more now. Smear > legbeater is still pretty sweet in my book. Too bad smear is the same difficulty as osis or butterfly, huh? From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 14 05:20:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09505 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 05:20:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f142.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.142]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05829 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:05:57 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:05:16 -0700 Received: from 209.245.72.209 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:05:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.245.72.209] From: "Bryan Fournier" To: derric@dallasfootbag.org Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Teachers? Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:05:16 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <39BC98CC.CDCE6192@dallasfootbag.org> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Sep 2000 16:05:16.0552 (UTC) FILETIME=[6821C080:01C01D9C] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derric Scalf wrote: >It WAS sick when Ahren hit blurriest to pdx barroque on one of the above >mentioned tapes. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty >sure it was at '97 Worlds in Portland. Possibly on '97 Shred? Yea man '97 Shred has some rad stuff on it..I just sat down to watch it the other day and saw Tuan hitting some memorable stuff...shooting mirages...mid-run....how long has he been hitting that set?! In this one circle he starts off like 3 runs with crazy toe moves, one of them being symp. eggbeater... clean as a whistle. We wanted to call that move "green eggs and ham" since it is pretty 'meaty'. Anyway, stuff on classic shred videos still amazes me... by the way Daryl tries hitting pdx. barroque on a little video called "homecooked shred" put out by sean wingert. he came pretty close and must have hit it since then. later on then... ~Bryan Fournier OOPS! Footbag Club Hermosa Beach, CA. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 14 05:20:32 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09516 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 05:20:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f133.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.133]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10438 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:16:33 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:15:53 -0700 Received: from 128.148.191.142 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:15:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.191.142] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "KeN Somolinos" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] very possible Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:15:52 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Sep 2000 19:15:53.0133 (UTC) FILETIME=[08DD85D0:01C01DB7] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey stylers, Phil Summer's post on real wak moves got me thinking about other very cool and hard moves which are very possible, or may have even been hit already. Gyro symposium dlo: just like a Big Apple, only not as far. Pete or Ryan could get this I'm sure Double in-spinning osis: Hard, but do-able. Lon or Kenny. Blurry symposium blizzard: Like a fog. Shooting drifter: Tuan, Ahren? Spinning ducking pdx blender: Chad, Eric Windsor, Eli. Blistering blender. Spinning PS blur: Big apple sauce ending on toe instead of osis. Triple pick up: like a triage. Sunil, Tuan, Ahren, Chad? Ducking swivel. If anybody has hit any of these, I'd like to hear about it or better yet see it! I honestly think most of these moves can be hit. Hopefully this will give people some new ideas to try stuff. Viva freestyle! Ken CF Somolinos From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 14 05:20:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09527 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 05:20:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f176.hotmail.com [216.32.181.176]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18408 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:37:57 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:37:16 -0700 Received: from 142.177.193.173 by lw2fd.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:37:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [142.177.193.173] From: "Cole Hobson" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Broken Bones ... Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:37:16 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Sep 2000 00:37:16.0577 (UTC) FILETIME=[EEB19110:01C01DE3] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, I'll start off by saying, that I've recently broken my ankle (non footbag related) and I know you don't care, because nobody knows who I am, but anyway, I have a question. I was just wondering, after I get my cast off, and the ankle is healed, is it possible to get quickly back to the level of freestyle I had before I hurt the ankle? If anybody has any stories, or hints, or things to say about this, I would appreciate it ... Maybe somebody else has broken an ankle or something before, please let me know how your return to freestyle was. Thanks, Cole Hobson http://footbag.cjb.net From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 14 06:08:00 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA09624 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 06:08:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Tom Kotsakos Received: from imo-r12.mx.aol.com (imo-r12.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23460 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:14:31 -0700 Received: from Honycherub@aol.com by imo-r12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id z.ce.a92a8a4 (4218) for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:13:44 EDT Subject: [freestyle] symposiumness To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Do you guys think that a move can be symposium if you stall the bag with the same leg that you dex with? I'm thinking no. Here's an example though: blender. What if you set, dont plant, then whirl your leg around the bag,etc. I know it would be easy to plant your leg while you dex, but what if the stall was done prior to your foot touching the ground? Tom Kotsakos Chicago Inner Circle From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 14 06:09:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA09635 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 06:09:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f115.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.115]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23596 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:26:24 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:25:43 -0700 Received: from 210.223.219.238 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 05:25:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [210.223.219.238] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] very possible Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 05:25:43 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Sep 2000 05:25:43.0669 (UTC) FILETIME=[3A863A50:01C01E0C] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org KeN c.f. Somolinos suggested amongst other sickness: >Blistering blender. Wouldn't that be whirling swirl??? However, that got me thinking, blistering frigid blender!! I'm in the middle of monsoon season in asia right now, so I can't play outside, but I'll give it a try tonight at home. >Ducking swivel. Sorry, I'm spacing on this, what's a swivel? And, because I love mixing topics, in resonce to smoothy, I think pendulum can be a set, or at least some of the moves I saw Lon hitting starting with pendulum were deffinatley one move. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 02:27:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11349 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:27:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17322 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:25:32 -0700 Received: from billy ([63.199.201.126]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G0W0089JJBYON@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:14:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:14:37 -0700 From: Sam Colclough Subject: Re: [freestyle] Broken Bones ... To: Cole Hobson , freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <003a01c01ea9$efa8d760$9b66fea9@billy> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 References: X-Priority: 3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org From: "Cole Hobson" > I was just wondering, after I get my cast off, > and the ankle is healed, is it possible to get quickly back to the level of > freestyle I had before I hurt the ankle? I'll say one thing. Think how much it sucks not to play footbag at all. That is the situation you are in now. Once you take the cast off, don't expect to be at your previous level. And don't push yourself too hard to get back there. If you re injure yourself, it will defeat the purpose and could possibly be worse than the first time because your ankle is weak. Point is: take it easy. Ease back into your game. Once you are back into it, then you can push yourself and shred. Specifically, talk to your doctor about ankle strengthening exercises and stretches to increase your ankle flexibility. That will be important since it was in a fast for many months. Good luck. -Sam From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 02:28:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11410 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:28:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Marsha Mulroney Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"89K7ip/NKVzwuUlzMUCf5foEpCyQFerKlwWZMByG7b8="> Received: (from yminoc@juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id FHYLB23Y; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:40:26 EDT To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:26:27 -0700 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Broken Bones ... Message-ID: <20000914.185247.-87079.0.yminoc@juno.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,3-4 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org To Cole Hobson Please don't think "I know you don't care, because nobody knows me". One thing about the footbag community, they are a caring group. After you are around longer you will come to realize that, small but caring. Hope you are back to kicking soon. Marsha Mulroney From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 02:27:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11353 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:27:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f165.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.165]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12547 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:51:16 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:50:35 -0700 Received: from 209.161.42.97 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:50:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.161.42.97] From: "jim penske" To: mccd2k@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Broken Bones ... Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:50:35 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Sep 2000 21:50:35.0486 (UTC) FILETIME=[CFFDEFE0:01C01E95] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jonathen Shneider hurt his ankle a while back and was just recovering when he came to a comp in pocatello. It looked to me that he was shreddin as good as ever. Jim Penske "Cole Hobson" wrote: >Hey everyone, > >I'll start off by saying, that I've recently broken my ankle (non footbag >related) and I know you don't care, because nobody knows who I am, but >anyway, I have a question. I was just wondering, after I get my cast off, >and the ankle is healed, is it possible to get quickly back to the level of >freestyle I had before I hurt the ankle? If anybody has any stories, or >hints, or things to say about this, I would appreciate it ... Maybe >somebody >else has broken an ankle or something before, please let me know how your >return to freestyle was. > >Thanks, >Cole Hobson >http://footbag.cjb.net From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 02:28:00 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11409 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:28:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from amber.excite.com (amber-rwcmex.excite.com [198.3.99.12]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04426 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:36:59 -0700 Received: from sammy ([199.172.153.124]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000914162422.BWAG21815.ewey.excite.com@sammy>; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:24:22 -0700 Message-ID: <25529028.968948662668.JavaMail.imail@sammy> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:24:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Davidson To: Cole Hobson , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Broken Bones ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 209.107.90.78 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Cole and everyone! On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:37:16 GMT, Cole Hobson wrote: > and the ankle is healed, is it possible to get quickly back to the level of > freestyle I had before I hurt the ankle? If anybody has any stories, or > hints, or things to say about this, I would appreciate it ... Maybe somebody > else has broken an ankle or something before, please let me know how your > return to freestyle was. I broke my leg back in 7th grade (many years ago). I was a gymnast until then. Tibia fracture and cast isolating ankle and knee ending just below my hip from skiing with old bindings and they didn't release when I spun on the characteristic ice/snow we have here in the midwest. My leg degraded (even though I was cycling with the cast on, to the point of needing a replacement cast because I wore off the back of the heel pushing down on the pedal when I wasn't supposed to) to the point I couldn't recognize it. It was soooo thin. When the cast got off, I was so ready to bend my knee that I just "went for it" and I'll never forget that pain. Treat your recovery seriously. Hopefully they offer rehab, that helped having a tyrant over me making me work it (an hour or two a week). After that was swimming, biking and running for me. And of course, eventually triathalons and then footbag. It takes time, take it seriously, strengthen over time and you'll be back. Rushing it could cause reinjury, but you and your doctor need to discuss that. Good luck. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener@footbag.org _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 02:27:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11392 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:27:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f171.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.171]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01075 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:27:38 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:26:58 -0700 Received: from 128.206.120.240 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:26:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Broken Bones ... Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:26:57 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Sep 2000 14:26:58.0013 (UTC) FILETIME=[D6BDE0D0:01C01E57] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "Cole Hobson" wrote: >I was just wondering, after I get my cast off, and the ankle is healed, >is it possible to get quickly back to the level of freestyle I had >before I hurt the ankle? You will never style again in your life... it is over. Start looking for a day job. Wait, we all have day jobs. This is a joke, Cole. Later Ian I broke one of my metatarsles once and seriously sprained my ankle twice. I am just as crumby of a styler as I ever was. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 02:27:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11385 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:27:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f133.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.133]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25302 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:31:54 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:31:14 -0700 Received: from 24.67.226.58 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:31:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.67.226.58] From: "Jeff Lopes" To: mccd2k@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Broken Bones ... Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:31:13 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Sep 2000 07:31:14.0008 (UTC) FILETIME=[C2F4C580:01C01E1D] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sorry about your ankle Cole, Ive severely sprained both of my ankles, one needed a robo-boot for a month. My suggestion, is to do EVERYTHING the Dr. says. ICE ICE ICE. My first session back hurt a bit (this was 7 months or so ago) but after a few weeks I was back to normal. This was a footbag injury, I tried paradon and slipped hard on this sand surface on the beach walkway. Pretty nasty. Anyway, my point is, Im 100% now, and shreddin better then ever. Have a good recovery! Jeff Lopes "Cole Hobson" wrote: >Hey everyone, > >I'll start off by saying, that I've recently broken my ankle (non footbag >related) and I know you don't care, because nobody knows who I am, but >anyway, I have a question. I was just wondering, after I get my cast off, >and the ankle is healed, is it possible to get quickly back to the level of >freestyle I had before I hurt the ankle? If anybody has any stories, or >hints, or things to say about this, I would appreciate it ... Maybe >somebody >else has broken an ankle or something before, please let me know how your >return to freestyle was. > >Thanks, >Cole Hobson >http://footbag.cjb.net From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 02:27:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11378 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:27:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f285.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.240.79]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00882 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:20:49 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:20:08 -0700 Received: from 128.206.120.240 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:20:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] very possible Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:20:08 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Sep 2000 14:20:08.0399 (UTC) FILETIME=[E297BDF0:01C01E56] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "Andrew McCargar" wrote: >>Blistering blender. > >Wouldn't that be whirling swirl??? However, that got me thinking, >blistering >frigid blender!! For clarification, I believe a blistering whirl is a double dex whirl. That said, I believe Ken is implying that a blistering blender would be double dex blender. A VERY DO-able move. I have come very close to this on many occasions--back when I kicked on a more regular basis. I am pretty certain Chad could, if he has not already, hit this with little to no difficulty. If it is to be used in this fashion of nomenclature, one might suggest adding it to the move elements on the site (footbag.org--I think this was understood, but just in case...). >And, because I love mixing topics, in resonce to smoothy, I think pendulum >can be a set, or at least some of the moves I saw Lon hitting starting with >pendulum were deffinatley one move. Disagree here. A pendulum is a move, not a set. Period. Once the bag makes contact with your foot (and, I suppose, the duration that is actually in contact with your foot--ie hop over, walk-over, eclipse, etc.), that is the end of a move. The release begins the next move's set. So, there is absolutely no way a pendulum could have components following it that are considered the same move. Because the pendulum itself requires contact, the move is over once it leaves your foot. Can components come before it? Yes. Spinning pendulum. Ducking pendulum. Diving..., blah blah, woof woof...You get the point. Later Ian Penduluming eclipsing blurry blender...that would be tight. hehe... And while on that note...Food Processor is 13 letters, blurry blender is 13... IMHO, blurry blender sounds better... Not that this means a damn thing. Ah...my box of soap is complete... From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 02:27:58 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11398 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:27:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f220.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.220]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01318 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:36:08 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:35:28 -0700 Received: from 128.206.120.240 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:35:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: derric@dallasfootbag.org Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Computerized Scoring (A new fork of Scott's Scoring System thread) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:35:28 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed In-Reply-To: <39BF20A9.B89F10CE@dallasfootbag.org> Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Sep 2000 14:35:28.0139 (UTC) FILETIME=[06CCEDB0:01C01E59] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derric Scalf wrote: >Plus, you get rid of the human error. And, the biggest >bonus is that you can apply any scoring system with ease (even your >proposed wacked out log formula). :) Derric, if a human is typing, human error is present. In fact, few, if any, processes in the world can totally eradicate human error. You, as a chemist, probably know that. >Face it people... the ADD system >doesn't reflect difficulty all that well. I personally feel that Eric's ammendments make the add system very close to being accurate--not perfect, but what is? Though, I don't know if these are not official yet. Are they? Plans? >Too bad smear >is the same difficulty as osis or butterfly, huh? Why is that too bad? And, I too send props to Cameron for his efforts. Later, Ian From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 02:27:53 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11364 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:27:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web2006.mail.yahoo.com (web2006.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.206]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA08153 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:12:39 -0700 Received: (qmail 1382 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Sep 2000 19:12:25 -0000 Message-ID: <20000914191225.1381.qmail@web2006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.129.16.5] by web2006.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:12:25 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:12:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] very possible To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org oops, didn't see this one the first time. > Ducking swivel. Tried it, hit it, THE. :) Fun though. Eli From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 02:27:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11373 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:27:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from juniper.its.swarthmore.edu (juniper.its.swarthmore.edu [130.58.64.64]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05981 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:45:14 -0700 Received: from acarter1 (d185.willets01.swarthmore.edu [130.58.241.185]) by juniper.its.swarthmore.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 95FB017EC3 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003b01c01e8f$13557c60$b9f13a82@swarthmore.edu> From: "Tony Carter-Piff" To: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] very possible Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:02:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Not in response to Ken's post, but on the same sort of topic: has frigid swirl been hit/tried/thought of? tony From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 02:27:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11341 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:27:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pseudo (c517473-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.20.24.118]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id e8F0ggn23936 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:42:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <020d01c01eae$19f05ee0$0200a8c0@pseudo> From: "Ryan Mulroney" To: References: <200009141950.MAA09955@list.footbag.org> Subject: [freestyle] Reverse paradox whirl is almost as stupi as symposium butterfly Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:44:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey List, This whole debate about reverse whirl is stupid. Why do people get so hung up on adds? The only place they are ever really applied is in routines and even then they are pretty much obsolete. The way I see it is that if you do a paradox reverse whirl (which is technically impossible and ridiculously simple) in a circle no one is going to care that you did ...oh boy.. a five add move. However if you do say, a tombstone people will be impressed despite the fact that the incredibly outdated add system only awards that difficult trick four adds. Basically, what I am saying is do hard tricks regardless of how many adds they are worth and don't waste everyone's time debating about the add values of useless tricks that no one should ever care about. Ryan Mulroney From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 02:28:00 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11404 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:28:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01660 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:59:23 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.21.169.241]) by lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000914145911.HJSZ22866.lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:59:11 -0700 Message-ID: <39C0E939.53A2D46A@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:05:29 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Computerized Scoring (A new fork of Scott's Scoring System thread) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ian Dubman wrote: > > I personally feel that Eric's ammendments make the add system very close to > being accurate--not perfect, but what is? Though, I don't know if these are > not official yet. Are they? Plans? The spinning paradox is now official - though it is still debated. The xdex and the inspinning adds are not yet official. Anyone care to comment on this? -D From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 02:27:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11384 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:27:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f280.hotmail.com [209.185.130.196]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA31340 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 05:09:01 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 05:08:20 -0700 Received: from 140.186.114.95 by lw1fd.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:08:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [140.186.114.95] From: "melissa schneider" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] women and footbag Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:08:20 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Sep 2000 12:08:20.0664 (UTC) FILETIME=[79372380:01C01E44] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org By my nature, i'm a little leary of writing into this list. I guess for fear of being criticized to heavily. Here i go. This discussion about men and women being at the same level of play, is something i have been curious about for a while. I am a women who is schooling hard to try and get these same big moves that all you guys are hitting(not that hugh yet). It seems to me that there are a few differences. i have been playing for a while now and the progress rate i see for men is higher than for women. Men seem to have this explosive energy in their muscles that i seem to lack. Now, that doesn't mean i won't be able to start doing these harder moves. I feel it will just take me longer to learn and i'll probably slow it down to be able to get it. I recognize that this is something really hard to generalize because there have not been many women trying to push the envelope. A definite difference is style, but a different style doesn't mean there should be different categories. I do believe women have the ability to play at the same level, look at carol and jane. i think having separate divisions helps to encourage women to enter events. I know of a few women this year at worlds who would not have competed if the women's division had not been there. There where 11 women who did routines, compared to how many men. I don't know what should be done about men and women being in the same categories or not. I think we need to focus on getting more women into the sport, simple as that. These are just thoughts, no real answers. Take care all. mel schneider From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 02:27:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11335 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:27:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pseudo (c517473-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.20.24.118]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id e8F0lkn21902 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <021101c01eae$cf1cfc60$0200a8c0@pseudo> From: "Ryan Mulroney" To: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] very possible Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:49:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ken wrote: > Gyro symposium dlo: just like a Big Apple, only not as far. Pete or Ryan I've been coming really close to this. I've been coming less close to symposium mantis (gyro egg beater) but close none the less. Chad has started doing Gyro Blurry sets....I see that being a pretty common set real soon. Ryan From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 02:27:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11368 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:27:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web2005.mail.yahoo.com (web2005.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.205]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA08010 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:09:02 -0700 Received: (qmail 25958 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Sep 2000 19:08:48 -0000 Message-ID: <20000914190848.25957.qmail@web2005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.129.16.5] by web2005.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:08:48 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:08:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] very possible To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yo, I haven't hit spinning ducking blender. But I just wanted to mention that I hit a new move similar- spinning ducking paradox drifter- I call it MORPHEUS, after the Greek god of dreams. Another one I've been hitting for a while is MAELSTROM- spinning ducking paradox whirl (and if tomohawk is paradox, so is this). ok, bye Eli From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 02:27:52 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11359 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:27:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f225.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.225]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10215 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:24:12 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:23:31 -0700 Received: from 63.210.115.206 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 20:23:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.210.115.206] From: "Bryan Fournier" To: Honycherub@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] symposiumness Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:23:31 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Sep 2000 20:23:31.0405 (UTC) FILETIME=[A6326FD0:01C01E89] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tom Kotsakos wrote: >Do you guys think that a move can be symposium if you stall the bag with >the same leg that you dex with? I'm thinking no. You do that in a little move called symp. pixie i think... i saw it on derricks records page....as for its application to other moves i havent the foggiest... ~Bryan Fournier OOPS! Footbag Club Hermosa Beach, CA. ::Hey summer is still going here in So Cal...so call us up to shred:: From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 04:39:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA12110 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 04:39:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01510 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:41:23 -0700 Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust130.tnt54.chi5.da.uu.net [63.11.94.130]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27964; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39C18482.F7ACBAAC@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:08:02 -0500 From: Tim Werner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bryan Fournier , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] symposiumness References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Bryan Fournier wrote: > Tom Kotsakos wrote: > > >Do you guys think that a move can be symposium if you stall the bag with > >the same leg that you dex with? I'm thinking no. > > You do that in a little move called symp. pixie i think... i saw it on > derricks records page....as for its application to other moves i havent the > foggiest... > I think you may have misunderstood the question Bryan. What he was asking was whether it was possible to have a symposium move where you dex and catch with the same leg. With symposium pixie you SET and dex with the same leg but you catch with the other. I personally don't think there can be a move where you do a symposium dex and immediately catch with the same foot. someone prove me wrong if you like Out of commission due to mononucleosis, TW. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 04:39:25 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA12121 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 04:39:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01596 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:45:03 -0700 Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust130.tnt54.chi5.da.uu.net [63.11.94.130]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09919; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39C18559.2E234603@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:11:38 -0500 From: Tim Werner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Carter-Piff , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] very possible References: <003b01c01e8f$13557c60$b9f13a82@swarthmore.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tony Carter-Piff wrote: > Not in response to Ken's post, but on the same sort of topic: has frigid > swirl been hit/tried/thought of? > > tony Yes, actually the last time I kicked before I got sick I tried it several times and got super close. I am POSITIVE that someone out there has hit this. though I don't know if frigid swirl is the right name for it, because swirl has no spin. frigid set frigidblender/dyno is what i'm thinking. no? who's hit this? From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 04:43:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA12145 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 04:43:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03069 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 00:39:32 -0700 Received: from [144.92.184.152] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id WAA11060 (8.9.1/50); Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:06:20 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.20000914220624.00f47358@students.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mklewand@students.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:06:24 -0500 To: "Ian Dubman" , freestyle@footbag.org From: Matthew Kain Lewandowski Subject: Re: [freestyle] very possible In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ian wrote: > >For clarification, I believe a blistering whirl is a double dex whirl. That >said, I believe Ken is implying that a blistering blender would be double >dex blender. A VERY DO-able move. To butt in here and correct this before it gets out of hand... A blistering set is a whirling gyro set. In other words a whirl dex followed by a quick gyro spin and then another move is executed. I believe that there is a video of Kenny hitting (or at least kicking out of) a blistering whirl, in other words a whirling gyro whirl. Notation is: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > SPIN > OP IN [DEX] > OP CLIP A blistering blender would be a whirling gyro blender, with notation as follows: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > SPIN > OP IN [DEX] > SPIN > SAME CLIP That's all. Later fellow footbaggers, Matt Kain From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 04:44:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA12156 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 04:44:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f189.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.189]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03543 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 01:01:00 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 20:27:17 -0700 Received: from 128.148.191.142 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 03:27:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.191.142] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "KeN Somolinos" To: mufreestyle@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] very possible Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:27:16 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Sep 2000 03:27:17.0800 (UTC) FILETIME=[D9826A80:01C01EC4] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all! First off, it was great seeing so many responses to some of the moves I suggested. Morpheus is a great name, and it sounds like it'd look cool. Like I said, many of the moves proposed are very do-able. Hm, ducking Marius just occurred to me. I bet that's hittable, Lon could get that. It's great to hear that people are really pushing themselves and the limits of this game. A quickie: Ian wrote >For clarification, I believe a blistering whirl is a double dex whirl. That >said, I believe Ken is implying that a blistering blender would be double >dex blender. A VERY DO-able move Actually, a blistering whirl is a whirling gyro whirl. Kenny hits one of these on Raw Shred, and comes close to one on 97 Worlds. I've never seen anybody else hit this. The move you describe is a double blender, Chad says he has come close, but hasn't hit it yet. Kenny on the other hand nailed this move in my face in Times Square a week before worlds. And Cole, all I have to say is go to worlds. Just because people don't know you doesn't mean they don't care. At worlds you can be completely unknown and a total novice and hang out with anybody and everybody. Now what I would like to see is more hanging out between net players and freestylers. Once again, good work on all the cool new moves being hit out there. I think it's inspired me to put down my frisbee and start kicking again. Ken CF Somolinos From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 04:49:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA12224 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 04:49:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1302.mail.yahoo.com (web1302.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.152]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA02853 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 00:31:20 -0700 Received: (qmail 22770 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Sep 2000 02:58:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20000915025810.22769.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <020d01c01eae$19f05ee0$0200a8c0@pseudo> Received: from [63.23.232.66] by web1302.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:58:10 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:58:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Reply-To: janejones2000@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse paradox whirl is almost as stupi as symposium butterfly To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ryan Mulroney wrote: > This whole debate about reverse whirl is stupid. Why do people get so > hung up on adds? ... > The way I see it is that if you > do a paradox reverse whirl (which is technically impossible and ridiculously > simple) ... > don't waste everyone's time > debating about the add values of useless tricks that no one should ever care > about Hey now! Maybe some of you are only reading digest version. Very few people have expressed a concern over adds. At least that's not the trail I've been following. The topic was Matthias' question concerning the name for a stepping opposite reverse whirl. The debate is about whether this is a matter of opinion, or if technically, it most certainly is a move and Derric should then add it to the move list. This obviously isn't a useless trick that people don't care about. It's a part of a lot of players' freestyle. That doesn't mean everyone has to include it in their repetoire of moves. That's a personal choice. Who cares about adds? How about the B. Add P.? I've definitely seen more than one BAP member handing out props for tripless strings. I've definitely heard of people not making BAP certain years because they weren't _quite_ guiltless yet. I don't think anyone on this list needs to be intimidated from any level of freestyle related discussion or query. This list is not mandated by a few of the elite players on the list that have strong opinions. Free you head, free you mind... say what you feel... that's what makes this list. Hey Ryan, I think what a lot of new freestylers on this list that are trying these reverse whirl tricks would like to know is...**why** do *you*, the world champion freestyler(!!), think that pdx reverse whirl is technically impossible? How about showing us the light? :-) :-) :-) Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 06:34:37 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA12399 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 06:34:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1002.mail.yahoo.com (web1002.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.92]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA08421 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 03:14:51 -0700 Received: (qmail 3382 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Sep 2000 05:41:41 -0000 Message-ID: <20000915054141.3381.qmail@web1002.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Received: from [209.244.97.246] by web1002.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:41:41 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:41:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping opp. rev. whirl To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey yo... Ken S. wrote: >Adds mean so incredibly little in this sport. >The longer you play, and the more moves you hit, the >more combos you >link, the more apparent this becomes. Ken, you just gained some major respect from me. For some reason, so many people don't understand what you just said. Style is everything. Adds don't mean shit. Gimpy RULES! Torch From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 06:33:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA12394 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 06:33:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA05732 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:02:02 -0700 Received: (qmail 314 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Sep 2000 04:28:47 -0000 In-Reply-To: <20000915025810.22769.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20000915042847.313.qmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.88.231] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:28:47 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:28:47 -0700 (PDT) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse paradox whirl is almost as stupi as symposium butterfly To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Jane Jones wrote: > Who cares about adds? How about the B. Add P.? Totally! If people truly dident care about adds, they wouldent worry about going guiltless, they would worry about going butterfly/osis-less....(bail-less) Notice I never said I dont care about adds... Later, Jamez From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 17:34:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13532 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:34:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA08878; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 03:51:39 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.21.169.241]) by lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000915061828.VWEV22866.lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:18:28 -0700 Message-ID: <39C1C0B6.CBD117FD@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 01:24:54 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] very possible References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org KeN Somolinos wrote: > > Actually, a blistering whirl is a whirling gyro whirl. > To add on here, the move mentioned earlier (a double dexterity whirl) is called a whirr. clip > op in > same in > op clip Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 17:36:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13543 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:36:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA09178 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 04:19:01 -0700 Received: (qmail 14088 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Sep 2000 06:45:51 -0000 Message-ID: <20000915064551.14087.qmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.88.231] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:45:51 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:45:51 -0700 (PDT) From: James Risden Subject: [freestyle] sweet video To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I hit a pretty sweet run today and got it on video, Its the longest I've ever gone tripless on camera. 20 contacts all together, the first 12 tripless... http://members.xoom.com/shreddined/shred/jamez05.mpg Hope you like....:) Later, Jamez From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 17:38:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13555 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:38:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.119]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13532 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:41:38 -0700 Received: from storefull-611.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-611.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.138]) by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id 451CB28A8; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 06:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from production@localhost) by storefull-611.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id GAA25631; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 06:08:28 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAn3eWqHbM8Vo8jmIEPi5J5vRfSU4CFCUP+xacFkPf4JgyRTaEQsaU7oCf From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:08:27 -0400 (EDT) To: janejones2000@yahoo.com Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse paradox whirl is almost as stupi as symposium butterfly Message-ID: <21645-39C21F4B-148@storefull-611.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: <20000915025810.22769.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yo, Yo, Yo. Jane said : >Who cares about adds? How about the >B. Add P.? I've definitely heard of >people not making BAP certain years >because they weren't _quite_ guiltless >yet. I think the BAP has probably just used ADDs as a gauge to see where everybody is at. Not becaue ADDs = Difficulty, but because it was the easiest universal yard stick. I have seen lots of props go out to BAPpers for stylely guilty and tilty stuff. Besides, it's all about the first family now anywho : )) And on Rev whirl......It may not mean much on ADDs, but it does on variety (which is much more important in comp ). I think Rev whirl is a move, so then (arguably) is every variation of Rev whirl. This is quite a few moves. GF From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 17:39:25 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13567 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:39:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1303.mail.yahoo.com (web1303.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.153]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA13983 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:07:46 -0700 Received: (qmail 28549 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Sep 2000 13:34:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20000915133436.28548.qmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <21645-39C21F4B-148@storefull-611.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Received: from [63.23.252.83] by web1303.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 06:34:36 PDT Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 06:34:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Reply-To: janejones2000@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse paradox whirl is almost as stupi as symposium butterfly To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey hey, Cool-I didn't get my head chopped off ;-) This is what I was trying to get at. Greg says it much more eloquently. -Jane > And on Rev whirl......It may not mean much on ADDs, > but it does on > variety (which is much more important in comp ). > I think Rev whirl is a move, so then (arguably) is > every variation of > Rev whirl. This is quite a few moves. > > GF From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 17:41:17 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13596 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:41:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mpinet.net (pop.mpinet.net [216.53.130.12]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16439 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:28:10 -0700 Received: from mpinet.net (216-53-151-073.ppp.mpinet.net [216.53.151.73]) by mpinet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19588; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39C24856.267128C2@mpinet.net> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:03:34 -0400 From: Joe Richter X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cole Hobson CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Broken Bones ... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Cole, I broke mine 5 years ago - footbagging. Freak accident. My break was the end of the tibia, cracked off when it hit the heelbone (that's apparently what happens when you bend the joint over to *extreme* lengths; the doctors certainly didn't act like it was something extremely rare). I was walking in the "robo-boot" (as somebody called it) after about a little over a month. At about 3 months I was footbagging(?) again, but there certainly wasn't a lot of strength in the lower leg (and you subconsciously worry about it every time you land). Eventually (6 to 8 months) I was as good as new - The only lingering effect was that that ankle has never been as flexible as it once was. Which leads to advice - 1) If the doctor recommends surgery - do it. I didn't, and I really think it would have helped. 2) Take the advice of the orthopedic doctors seriously - They'll start you on using a simple rubber band to apply pressure and flex the joint - Do the exercises religiously (even though they feel like baby exercises, your lower leg will welcome the exercise after a long period of inactivity. Finally : If you can afford sessions with a trainer - Do it. Good luck - You'll be fine... Cole Hobson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I'll start off by saying, that I've recently broken my ankle (non footbag > related) and I know you don't care, because nobody knows who I am, but > anyway, I have a question. I was just wondering, after I get my cast off, > and the ankle is healed, is it possible to get quickly back to the level of > freestyle I had before I hurt the ankle? If anybody has any stories, or > hints, or things to say about this, I would appreciate it ... Maybe somebody > else has broken an ankle or something before, please let me know how your > return to freestyle was. > > Thanks, > Cole Hobson > http://footbag.cjb.net -- Regards, + \\---------\ ----------------------------------------+ | \ (o) \ Any sufficiently advanced cluelessness | | \ ) <> | is indistinguishable from genius. | | \ (o) / jrichter@mpinet.net | + \---------/ ----------------------------------------+ From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 17:42:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13607 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:42:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f159.hotmail.com [209.185.131.222]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17084 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:03:25 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:29:45 -0700 Received: from 134.241.197.165 by lw1fd.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:29:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [134.241.197.165] From: "melissa schneider" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] women and freestyle Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:29:45 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Sep 2000 16:29:45.0606 (UTC) FILETIME=[28951A60:01C01F32] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Salut freestylers. Just a thought: Is there any professional sport that women and men compete together in one category? i can't think of one, not that there isn't one. There must be real reasons for this? Peace mel From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 18:29:37 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13784 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:29:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13781 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:29:36 -0700 Received: from fep1.excitehome.net (fep1.excitehome.net [24.0.26.112]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19636 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:25:46 -0700 Received: from [24.16.28.229] ([24.16.29.254]) by fep1.excitehome.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000915175230.RBCF24346.fep1.excitehome.net@[24.16.28.229]> for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:52:30 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:52:32 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] women and freestyle Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 4:29 PM +0000 9/15/00, melissa schneider wrote: > Just a thought: Is there any professional sport that women and >men compete together in one category? i can't think of one, not >that there isn't one. There must be real reasons for this? Why do people keep asking loaded questions? Are you still trying to resolve the issue of why there are women's events in footbag? Then why not just ask? The answer should be obvious. The proof, as they say, is in the proverbial pudding. There ain't enough wymmins in the sport. The issue has much less to do with physical differences, and much more to do with the make-up of our playing population. One incentive for people to compete is the chance that they could win (stating, meet obvious :-)). Given that there have been so many men in the sport throughout its development in the competitive arena, women would have statistically had a much lower chance to win. A women's division attempts to attract more women to the sport by giving them a chance to win (whereas, statistically speaking, women are less likely to win when 96% of the players are male). Winning is motivation for competition. Q.E.D. :-) Similar arguments hold for junior and masters' divisions. If we want more young players, we add junior divisions. If we want more of the old-timers to stay part of the tournament, we hold a masters' division. It's not about whether or not young or old people are more or less able to win, it's about the statistics around the existing population. One could draw conclusions from those statistics, but honestly, as a sport, we don't attempt to. In fact, that's why we offer the "open" division, which is often entirely misunderstood. This is one of the big reasons I'm so adamant about calling it "open" and not "pro". People seem to consistently misunderstand the whole friggin' point of why we say "open". The idea is that "open" is a category *anyone* can compete in. So, as the statitics are just statistics, there may very well be women, older players, and even younger players who are ready to win against the average population of advanced players. In that case, we don't attempt to preclude them from competing. They can go "open" and play against the field of the most advanced players in the game, or at least, so the theory goes. This is why at a few world championships, there've been women to go open -- which has created controversy not because it's unheard-of, but because some of the women didn't feel there were enough wome for the statical anomalies to exit the division, thereby leaving the division essentially vacant. Does that answer everyone's questions? If not, well, I guess I'm in for a long thread. :-( Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 15 19:08:37 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13859 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:08:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from davisbrody.com (mail.davisbrody.com [205.253.194.181]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20329 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:51:11 -0700 Received: from davisbrody.com [209.73.237.244] by davisbrody.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.04) id A86EEDF400BE; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:20:30 -0400 Message-ID: <39C2679D.652D1F32@davisbrody.com> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:17:01 -0400 From: Bruce Dole X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse paradox whirl is almost as stupi as symposium butterfly References: <20000915025810.22769.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jane wrote: > This obviously isn't a useless trick that people don't care about. Absolutely. There's no such thing as a useless trick. Think about it; what's the USE of any trick, except to have fun? Maybe that's a "stupi" question... > Who cares about adds? How about the B. Add P.? ADDS don't matter, neither does the BAP. I'm not talking about the people in the BAP, either, I'm talking about the invisible line that distinguishes who's IN and who's OUT. It's silly (wasn't it originally a joke?), just like the adds system, and neither one changes the SPORT one bit. Practice + focus = talent. Bingo. The funny part about this whole discussion is that NOBODY ever says ANYTHING in favor of the adds system. But everyone refers to it once in awhile, and they instantly get shot down for it. If everyone agrees that it sucks, can't we all just get along? > I've definitely seen more than one BAP member handing out props for tripless strings. I've definitely heard of people not making BAP certain years because they weren't _quite_ guiltless yet. Props, schmops. BAP, schmap. Adds schmads. Guiltless schmiltless. FUN! FREESTYLE! Who started playing this sport because they wanted to get more "adds?" > > > I don't think anyone on this list needs to be intimidated from any level of freestyle related discussion or query. This list is not mandated by a few of the elite players on the list that have strong opinions. Free you head, free you mind... say what you feel... that's what makes this list. > YEAH! Bruce Dole (New York Footbag Association) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 16 05:06:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14804 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:06:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pseudo (c517473-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.20.24.118]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id e8FKDHn10823 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002a01c01f51$9f6b5f40$0200a8c0@pseudo> From: "Ryan Mulroney" To: References: <20000915025810.22769.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: [freestyle] Oh my God, I cant believe we are still talking about paradox reverse whirl Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:14:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Okay, fine. I will waste everyone's time and further the debate regarding the so-called "paradox reverse whirl." Jane Jones wrote: > Very few people have expressed a concern over adds. At least that's > not the trail I've been following. If you are talking about the validity of a controversial freestyle trick than you are always talking about adds. The only reason people do moves like paradox reverse whirl is to cheat the add system and turn a butterfly into a four add trick. > The debate is about whether this is a matter of opinion, or if > technically, it most certainly is a move and Derric should then add it > to the move list. That trick is already on the move list, it is called a butterfly. I don't care if you bend your knee or not, it is the same dex and it is just as easy so it should not get an extra add and it should not be counted as a unique trick. > This obviously isn't a useless trick that people don't care about. > It's a part of a lot of players' freestyle. I didn't say no one should do this variation of butterfly, I just said that it is not worth arguing about because it isn't even a unique trick. > Who cares about adds? How about the B. Add P.? I've definitely seen > more than one BAP member handing out props for tripless strings. I've > definitely heard of people not making BAP certain years because they > weren't _quite_ guiltless yet. First of all the Big Add Posse has long outgrown its name. It is not about doing big adds but shredding the fuck out of whatever moves you are doing. If you noticed this year no one cared about tripless. Basically, this is because no one is good enough yet to claim tripless without doing a ton of ripwalks, paradox whirls, and other bail fours. The most props were given to guys like Lon who bust out sick shit whether it be 3, 4, 5, or 6 adds. If you think that you can get into BAP by cheating the add system and doing unworthy 5's like sypmosium paradox whirl then you are mistaken. It is not so much about big adds as much as it is just about being really good at footbag. You have to be able to do everything and do it well. > I don't think anyone on this list needs to be intimidated from any > level of freestyle related discussion or query. No, but as a top player I can voice my opinion and try to give advice to misled players who think that they can get into BAP by doing moves as weak as "symp paradox reverse whirl" > This list is not mandated by a few of the elite players on the list > that have strong opinions. No, but perhaps more of these elite players would write in if we actually had some more meaningful debates. Many BAP members read the list but few of them ever write in because the list focusses on the stupidest topics possible. > Hey Ryan, I think what a lot of new freestylers on this list that are > trying these reverse whirl tricks would like to know is...**why** do > *you*, the world champion freestyler(!!), think that pdx reverse whirl > is technically impossible? How about showing us the light? If you really want to bore everyone with another argument about paradox than fell free to do so. Personally, I will try not to waste everyone's time with that ridiculous argument again. Basically, if you think a move is paradox then go do it. If it feels like the paradox motion than it probably is. However, of it is merely a butterfly in disguise and feels nothing like paradox than it probably is not paradox. All I am saying is that if you (in the general freestyle community sense of the word) jump into a shred circle full of top level players and start doing weak tricks like paradox reverse whirl and symposium butterfly then you are going to get your ass spanked. You should do yourself a favor and skool worthy tricks that are more challenging. If you read this and think I am a jerk then so be it. If you are Rippin Rick Reese and want to reply and defend these tricks like I know you want to then so be it. Since, I complain about the topics on the list so much I will try and introduce a decent topic: Why the hell is cross body given an extra add when it is much easier ending a trick on a clipper than it is on a toe. Once you have been playing long enough to have a good clipper you will know what I am talking about. The biggest problem with the add system is that it rewards you for bailing to your clipper. There are many top level players (I won't name any names) that have a very difficult time doing toe tricks yet they can keep the bag on their clippers for 20 or 30 tricks. This is why tripless is sufffering. Toe tricks are hard yet they are all three adds because of a system that was conceived when clipper stalls were actually difficult. Peace Out, Ryan Mulroney From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 16 05:07:35 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14816 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:07:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pseudo (c517473-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.20.24.118]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id e8FKJun17422 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:19:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002b01c01f52$8a8c3e40$0200a8c0@pseudo> From: "Ryan Mulroney" To: References: <20000915042847.313.qmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: [freestyle] God Damn Add Fixations Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:21:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org James wrote: > Totally! If people truly dident care about adds, they > wouldent worry about going guiltless, they would worry > about going butterfly/osis-less....(bail-less) People should worry about going "bail-less". The problem is it is really fucking hard where as guiltless is not. I see butterlfy, Osis, and paradox mirage being completely removed from top players' strings within the next two years. These tricks are currently very neccessary but just being guiltless will not get you into BAP these days because there are a lot of unworthy threes and fours. You have to be guiltless and doing hard tricks, hard combos, long strings, and anything else you can think of. IT IS NOT ABOUT ADDS. IT IS ABOUT SKILL. Ryan Mulroney From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 16 05:13:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14840 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:13:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web4603.mail.yahoo.com (web4603.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.105.158]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA24873 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:32:02 -0700 Message-ID: <20000915215822.4480.qmail@web4603.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20000915054141.3381.qmail@web1002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.97.2.247] by web4603.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:58:22 PDT Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:58:22 -0700 (PDT) From: john kingi Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping opp. rev. whirl To: Freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. --- Ahren Gehrman wrote: > Style is everything. Adds don't mean shit. Gimpy > RULES! > > Torch Now i'm only a little tiltless player, so i might not know to much in the way of stringing huge moves together (or little ones for that matter), but when i was starting out i just thought this sport was about kicking a footbag around and having fun (which i believe it is). When i first started to learn about the add system i was at first a little confused but once i got the hang of it i was amazed at how ingenious this system actually is. The fact that it doesn't always allow for all moves or for certain elements of the move is (to me) a problem that we would probably encounter with any system. Learning the add system helped me to see how to breakdown a move into elements which in turn help speed up the proccess of learning to execute moves. This isn't any kind of attack at ahren (incase anybody gets the wrong idea), Just my 2 cents worth. Johnny (The Redeemer) Kingi From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 16 05:13:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14852 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:13:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f109.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.109]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25155 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:41:34 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:07:54 -0700 Received: from 128.206.120.240 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:07:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] women and freestyle Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:07:54 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Sep 2000 22:07:54.0285 (UTC) FILETIME=[6593D5D0:01C01F61] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve Goldberg wrote: So, >as >the statitics are just statistics, there may very well be women, >older players, and even younger players who are ready to win against >the average population of advanced players. Hehe... As I am consistently wrong on this list, I probably should not make any comments concerning anything that might be a mistake. But I cannot resist... Steve seems to have made a spelling error. But, in his defense, he got it right by the end of the sentence. Strong work Steve!! :) Another not-so unrelated topic... I was not sure about the blistering whirl thing I commented on. I should not have made that post and I apologize, but in my own defense, I looked it up--to no avail, and then made sure I used the words "I believe..." to ensure that I was my own skeptic. Thank you very much Ken, Derric, and Matt for correcting my mistake, and doing so with polite manners. I appreciate that and see that as a strong positive to a list that is not always positive. Good Kharma...Good folks... Later nambud nai From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 16 05:15:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14863 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:15:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from sfo.jsishipping.com (jsishipping.com [207.33.33.34]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26064 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 20:32:11 -0700 Received: from sfofw1.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.36]) by sfo.jsishipping.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-64750U500L500S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:57:43 -0700 Message-ID: <020b01c01f67$e236ab20$4981020a@sfo.jsishipping.com> In-Reply-To: <39C0E939.53A2D46A@dallasfootbag.org> From: "Eric Wulff" To: "freestyle" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Computerized Scoring (A new fork of Scott's Scoring System thread) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:54:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all... Derric Scalf wrote... > The spinning paradox is now official - though it is still debated. The xdex > and the inspinning adds are not yet official. > Anyone care to comment on this? Okay... not that I disagree that their can be a paradox in a spin but this totally cracks me up. Who "made this official"?! Hah... did you make it official Derric? Did Steve? I know... wait... 10 people on the list agreed with it so it's now official... right? Eric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 16 05:17:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14883 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:17:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f193.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.193]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30514 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 00:05:31 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:31:48 -0700 Received: from 24.67.226.58 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 02:31:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.67.226.58] From: "Jeff Lopes" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Style Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 02:31:48 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Sep 2000 02:31:48.0301 (UTC) FILETIME=[4362EFD0:01C01F86] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey ya'll, For all these people who are hung up an just "adds", let me just say that Ive seen so many stylers hit the same freestyle moves, but they look totally different. Everyone has there own style, some look sweeter than others. I had never seen Lon Smith shred before, then I saw him at worlds, and I was amazed how casual the guy is. His routine was sweet, and his "adds" werent super high, he just had the coolest style. Thats just an example. Anyway, dont let numbers get to your heads, just have fun. Style Rules. P.S. What is Lon's freestyle nick name? Later from Canada eh? Jeff Lopes From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 16 05:19:45 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14894 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:19:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA32297 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 01:01:43 -0700 Received: from doby.excite.com ([199.172.152.182]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000916032758.BYXP20177.kuku.excite.com@doby.excite.com> for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 20:27:58 -0700 Message-ID: <23822764.969074878095.JavaMail.imail@doby.excite.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 20:27:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Windsen Pan To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Broken Bones ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 205.188.192.48 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey cole, sorry about the ankle man. but dont worry, its not like you're never gonna be able to shred ever again. i broke my ankle early this year and had to get surgery but i was up and running about 3 months later. it took some time to get back on track and reach the point where i left off but i eventually got there. so dont worry about it. just dont push yourself too hard when you start kicking again. take it slow and build up your strength again. anyways, i hope you get better soon. laterz windsen pan www.safreestyle.cjb.net On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:37:16 GMT, Cole Hobson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I'll start off by saying, that I've recently broken my ankle (non footbag > related) and I know you don't care, because nobody knows who I am, but > anyway, I have a question. I was just wondering, after I get my cast off, > and the ankle is healed, is it possible to get quickly back to the level of > freestyle I had before I hurt the ankle? If anybody has any stories, or > hints, or things to say about this, I would appreciate it ... Maybe somebody > else has broken an ankle or something before, please let me know how your > return to freestyle was. > > Thanks, > Cole Hobson > http://footbag.cjb.net From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 16 05:20:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14909 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:20:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f255.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.240.28]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02308 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 01:50:27 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 21:16:45 -0700 Received: from 210.223.219.240 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 04:16:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [210.223.219.240] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] very possible Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 04:16:44 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003b01c01e8f$13557c60$b9f13a82@swarthmore.edu> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Sep 2000 04:16:45.0217 (UTC) FILETIME=[ECA41110:01C01F94] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tony Carter-Piff wrote: >Not in response to Ken's post, but on the same sort of topic: has frigid >swirl been hit/tried/thought of? I've never hit/tried it from clipper but I've done this set from frigid osis (probably a whole hell of a lot easier). I'll give it a try today, but here's a question: would this move count as gyro? -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 16 05:22:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14936 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:22:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net ([207.160.174.55]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23098 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:00:54 -0700 Received: from [207.160.174.20] (HELO [207.160.174.20]) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.2.4) with ESMTP id 122350 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:27:06 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:27:07 -0700 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse paradox whirl is almost as stupi as symposium butterfly From: Derrick Fogle To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <39C2679D.652D1F32@davisbrody.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org on 9/15/00 11:17 AM, Bruce Dole at bdole@davisbrody.com wrote: > FUN! FREESTYLE! Who started playing this sport because they wanted to get more > "adds?" Not that I'm one of them, but I think there are a group of young players that have been drawn into the sport because of that very quest for superior difficulty. The big adds, accomplishing the difficult stuff, that's the fun in freestyle for them. Difficulty just isn't the only facet of playing footbag. While I get as stoked as anyone when I hit what for me is a very long, difficult string, I have to admit that I probably have *more* fun just kick-dancing to live music, especially when it lends itself to my funky style. I think whether you play to other footbag players or not is a significant distinction. BAP has turned out to be the lasting cult of freestyle, and if you want to play footbag to your peers, you've got to focus on that difficulty. I feel very different because I don't really kick footbag for other footbag players. I could never quite make the cut difficulty wise. I'm a 'never quite was anybody' in the twilight of my footbag career. I don't like kicking in circles because of the focus and pressure on difficulty. I move around too much. I truly prefer kicking by myself at live concerts in crowds of people. Admittedly, I live in hicksville USA. But I kicked for almost 2 hours in front of literally thousands of people yesterday evening. I got the most recognition from the audience when I was able to pop the bag up on my knees and run around our courthouse circle fountain a couple of times in the middle of a 5-minute, 100-add or so rally. I also had a couple of good 3+ add strings of probably over 100 adds, but they only lasted 30-45 seconds and people really didn't care that much. Next Thursday I'll bring some sidewalk chalk with me and write "footbag.org" on the concrete real big where I kick at our 'Twilight Festival'. I'll play my heart out for those people. All my kicks, spins, one-add toe delays and flying clippers will be 100% valid. I don't really feel like I've 'tilted' or 'guilted' unless I lose the groove of the music, no matter what I'm doing with the bag. I almost always have a great time when I get to kick like this, and people get exposed to footbag, at a mostly mentally accessible level. Well, I don't feel I've done much with my ramblings. I'm just trying to drive home the point of why *I* don't think difficulty is the 'one great thing' in footbag. Stylistic dance kicking is just as valid as blistering symposium blurry whirling swirls are. And anyone that wants to come perform footbag in front of a crowd of people with me is welcome. The Columbia, MO Twilight Festival is each Thursday this month. I start kicking about 5:45 and kick until dark. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 16 05:52:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14985 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:52:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14982 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:52:56 -0700 Received: from fep1.excitehome.net (fep1.excitehome.net [24.0.26.112]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04868 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 02:49:04 -0700 Received: from [24.16.28.229] ([24.16.29.254]) by fep1.excitehome.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000916051541.TIVI24346.fep1.excitehome.net@[24.16.28.229]> for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:15:41 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000915042847.313.qmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20000915042847.313.qmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:15:29 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse paradox whirl is almost as stupi as symposium butterfly Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:28 PM -0700 9/14/00, James Risden wrote: >If people truly dident care about adds, they >wouldent worry about going guiltless, James, what the hell language are you writing? This list is for *English* speakers. Please find another list if you can't post in the language we are all speaking. There's a magic thingie called an "a-post-ro-phe" that you need to learn about. Apostrophes can be used to combine two words that otherwise are separate. This is something most grammar school students learn in first or second grade. (Note, "grammar" school.) These are called "contractions". So, "did not", when contracted, becomes "didn't". I have to assume this is what you meant when you wrote "dident". By the way, "dident" would be pronounced "die'-dent" by anyone who didn't realize you were unable to write English. Which is unbelievable since you are supposedly a native English speaker. "Would not" becomes "wouldn't". Learn English. PLEASE. Until then, please don't post again without checking your spelling and punctuation. It reflects poorly on you. Trust me. Thanks. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 16 05:58:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA15002 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:58:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14999 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:58:37 -0700 Received: from fep1.excitehome.net (fep1.excitehome.net [24.0.26.112]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05122 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 02:54:44 -0700 Received: from [24.16.28.229] ([24.16.29.254]) by fep1.excitehome.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000916052125.TJAC24346.fep1.excitehome.net@[24.16.28.229]> for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:21:25 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:21:18 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Style Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:31 AM +0000 9/16/00, Jeff Lopes wrote: >P.S. What is Lon's freestyle nick name? Shred-on Lawn. Or Lonamithicus if you're really nice to him. Steve P.S. Jeff, apostrophes. Remember the apostrophes. :-) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 17 04:16:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA16536 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:16:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07430 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 06:11:04 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.21.169.241]) by lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000916083753.WDW22866.lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 01:37:53 -0700 Message-ID: <39C332A5.6D33C5D0@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 03:43:17 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle Subject: Re: [freestyle] Computerized Scoring (A new fork of Scott's Scoring System thread) References: <020b01c01f67$e236ab20$4981020a@sfo.jsishipping.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eric Wulff wrote: > > Okay... not that I disagree that their can be a paradox in a spin but this > totally cracks me up. Who "made this official"?! A while back, this was discussed heavily on the list. I had only one person that was against it. So, of the people that had an opinion, the overwhelming majority wanted paradox in some spinning moves. I really like the paradox in certain toe set spinning moves. Too bad you have to set from clip to get the paradox... or do you? Disclaimer: The add value doesn't matter for anything except the original title of this thread. Please note that some people care about judging. To these people, adds are necessary. If you don't like adds, propose a different scoring system. I'm sure Cameron could alter his program to use any scoring system you can think of. (and yes, Steve, I ended that sentence with a preposition) Later. -D From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 17 04:15:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA16531 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:15:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f210.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.210]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05696 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 03:18:10 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:44:30 -0700 Received: from 152.163.213.78 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:44:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.213.78] From: "Bryan Fournier" To: ewulff@jsishipping.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Computerized Scoring (A new fork of Scott's Scoring System thread) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:44:30 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <020b01c01f67$e236ab20$4981020a@sfo.jsishipping.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Sep 2000 05:44:30.0444 (UTC) FILETIME=[2EF5F2C0:01C01FA1] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "Eric Wulff" wrote: > Hi all... > >Derric Scalf wrote... > > The spinning paradox is now official - though it is still debated. The xdex > > and the inspinning adds are not yet official. > > Anyone care to comment on this? > >Okay... not that I disagree that their can be a paradox in a spin but this >totally cracks me up. Who "made this official"?! Hah... did you make it >official Derric? Did Steve? > >I know... wait... 10 people on the list agreed with it so it's now >official... right? > >Eric I love it when E.W. gets silly like so...hehe...its funny b'cuz its true...hehe ~Bryan Fournier OOPS! Footbag Club Hermosa Beach, CA. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 17 04:16:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA16541 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:16:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07620 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 06:31:24 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.21.169.241]) by lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000916085810.APE5286.lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 01:58:10 -0700 Message-ID: <39C33765.8E90CCB8@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 04:03:33 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Blistering Whirl (was Re: [freestyle] women and freestyle) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ian Dubman wrote: > > I was not sure about the blistering whirl > thing I commented on, but in my own defense, I looked it up--to no avail, Oops. It is up there now. http://www.footbag.org/freestyle/ blistering whirl = whirling gyro whirl 5 adds (and no, on occasion, adds don't equal difficulty). CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (back) SPIN [BOD] > OP IN [DEX] > OP CLIP [XBD][DEL] Both dexterities are done "whirl-style" which is distinctly different from "mirage-style". If the first dex in this move was done "mirage-style", it would be a 'stepping same side gyro whirl'. These two moves share the same Job's notation, but I BELIEVE that they would be counted as unique. It is also generally accepted that the 'OUT [DEX]' component can be done either "butterfly-style" or "reverse-whirl-style". Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 17 04:17:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA16565 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:17:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA10091 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 09:44:17 -0700 Received: (qmail 28520 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Sep 2000 12:11:06 -0000 Message-ID: <20000916121106.28519.qmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <002a01c01f51$9f6b5f40$0200a8c0@pseudo> Received: from [63.14.88.51] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:11:06 PDT Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:11:06 -0700 (PDT) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] cross-body add (reverse whirl blah blah) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Ryan Mulroney wrote: > Why the hell is cross body > given an extra add when > it is much easier ending a trick on a clipper than > it is on a toe. I posted about this months ago! Guiltless would mean SOO much more if butterflys and osiseses dident get that bunk add! Bye, Jamez From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 17 04:18:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA16576 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:18:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f175.hotmail.com [209.185.131.238]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11653 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 12:07:07 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 07:33:26 -0700 Received: from 134.241.196.254 by lw1fd.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 14:33:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [134.241.196.254] From: "melissa schneider" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] women in freestyle Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 14:33:26 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Sep 2000 14:33:26.0619 (UTC) FILETIME=[1331F2B0:01C01FEB] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well steve actually you didn't answer my question. The question was straight forward. I was simply curious if there where any other sports that did not divide events into mens and womens. I for one am for womens events in footbag, not that that matters to this response. Later mel From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 17 04:20:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA16589 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:20:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Kenny Shults Received: from KenShults@aol.com by imo-r18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id z.78.a4cd303 (4069) for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 12:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <78.a4cd303.26f50025@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <002a01c01f51$9f6b5f40$0200a8c0@pseudo> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 12:56:05 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Oh my God, I cant believe we are still talking about paradox ... To: freestyle@list.footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 118 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I agree with Ryan. Kenny From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 17 04:21:10 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA16600 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:21:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f279.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.236.157]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14877 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:21:51 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 10:48:11 -0700 Received: from 64.92.44.4 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 17:48:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.92.44.4] From: "Stan Sagalovskiy" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Oh my God, I cant believe we are still talking about paradox reverse whirl Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 13:48:11 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002a01c01f51$9f6b5f40$0200a8c0@pseudo> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Sep 2000 17:48:11.0161 (UTC) FILETIME=[47B99090:01C02006] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ryan Mulroney, wrote: >unworthy 5's like sypmosium paradox whirl then you are mistaken. It > i personally think ps-whirl is a cool move, no matter how many adds. on the topic of butterfly, osis, and pdx mirage, i agree.. a 60 contact string full of these isn't at all as exciting as blurry-whirl - ps-whirl - mobius - pdx torque - blurry whirl - drop or even backside symp atom-smasher - atomic drifter - pdx-eggbeater because to get a nice set for pdx-egg you have to really "hit" atomic drifter, and not just have it roll of your foot for a osis. this may be a bad example, but the idea is there. and not so much because it may be more difficult, but because it's not such a common occurence to see those kinds of tricks linked together. take basketball for istance.. anyone can make lay-ups and shoot 1-footers.. but it takes a *very* good player to take the game to another level. this may again be a poor example, but the idea is still there. just my 2 cents. now let's hear about the insane combos people have hit recently! Stan Sagalovskiy. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 17 04:22:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA16724 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:22:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f97.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.97]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15943 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:00:06 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 11:26:26 -0700 Received: from 128.206.120.240 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 18:26:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse paradox whirl is almost as stupi as symposium butterfly Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 13:26:25 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Sep 2000 18:26:26.0061 (UTC) FILETIME=[9F9783D0:01C0200B] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve Goldberg wrote: James Risden wrote: >>If people truly dident care about adds, they >>wouldent worry about going guiltless, Steve says... >James, what the hell language are you writing? This list is for >*English* speakers. Please find another list if you can't post in the >language we are all speaking. All I have to say is "LOL"!! I was rolling when I read this. I am not one for rudeness, but shit Steve... Ever thought about comedy? hehe... Still chuckling. "BLEEP, BLEEP" Sorry, had to initiate my spell check program... Later, Ian PS My mother is a college English professor, and I had to deal with stuff like Steve is dishing out since I was a kid. Grin and bear it. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 17 04:24:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA16744 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:24:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Tom Kotsakos Received: from imo-r19.mx.aol.com (imo-r19.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.73]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17080 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 17:02:03 -0700 Received: from Honycherub@aol.com by imo-r19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id z.52.b9984d (3933) for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <52.b9984d.26f523cf@aol.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:28:15 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Enslish 101 and list policy and good manners To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I thought this list was about footbag. I remember the first email from this list telling me to only post footbag related material. The point being that nobody wants to read non footbag material on this list. I don''''''t mind that people don'''''''t use apostrophes. I still understand what they're saying. This post (and many others like it) is not footbag related, and I don''''''t want to receive mail like this. I know some people get mad at others on this list. I suggest that you write them a personal email rather than trying to embarrass them in front of everyone. (Note: like in grammar school) I realize that I''''''m being a hypocrite right now because I'''''m sending this to the entire list, but I think people should hear this. In a message dated 9/16/00 12:20:27 AM Central Daylight Time, brat@footbag.org writes: << James, what the hell language are you writing? This list is for *English* speakers. Please find another list if you can't post in the language we are all speaking. There's a magic thingie called an "a-post-ro-phe" that you need to learn about. Apostrophes can be used to combine two words that otherwise are separate. This is something most grammar school students learn in first or second grade. (Note, "grammar" school.) These are called "contractions". **The end quotation mark should come after the period. So, "did not", when contracted, becomes "didn't". I have to assume this is what you meant when you wrote "dident". By the way, "dident" would be pronounced "die'-dent" by anyone who didn't realize you were unable to write English. Which is unbelievable since you are supposedly a native English speaker. "Would not" becomes "wouldn't". Learn English. PLEASE. Until then, please don't post again without checking your spelling and punctuation. It reflects poorly on you. Trust me. **Learn some manners and the list rules. PLEASE. Until then please don't post your English lessons again. It reflects poorly on you. Trust me. Thanks. >> Tom Reallyapeacefulguybutsickofthis From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 17 04:28:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA16844 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:28:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f91.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.91]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21451 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:39:06 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:05:22 -0700 Received: from 128.148.191.142 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:05:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.191.142] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "KeN Somolinos" To: bdole@davisbrody.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse paradox whirl is almost as stupi as symposium butterfly Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:05:22 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Sep 2000 19:05:22.0556 (UTC) FILETIME=[E5D69BC0:01C01F47] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, Mel asked: > Just a thought: Is there any professional sport that women and men >compete together in one category? Synchronized swimming. Bruce Dole asked: > >Who started playing this sport because they wanted to get more "adds?" James Risden. : D >Props, schmops. >BAP, schmap. >Adds schmads. >Guiltless schmiltless. Schmamen. CF From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Sep 17 04:30:58 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA16863 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:30:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA16860 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:30:57 -0700 Received: from fep1.excitehome.net (fep1.excitehome.net [24.0.26.112]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28444 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 01:27:02 -0700 Received: from [24.16.29.254] by fep1.excitehome.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000917035346.WDUO24346.fep1.excitehome.net@[24.16.29.254]> for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 20:53:46 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@140.174.206.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <52.b9984d.26f523cf@aol.com> References: <52.b9984d.26f523cf@aol.com> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 20:53:43 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enslish 101 and list policy and good manners Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 3:28 PM -0400 9/16/00, Tom Kotsakos wrote: >I thought this list was about footbag. I remember the first email from this >list telling me to only post footbag related material. There are quite a few policies on this list, and I'm the author of them. One of them is that we are an English-only list; it is not appropriate to post foreign languages on it. We are also prettty strict about good grammar and punctuation. Many a posting is rejected on the basis of bad grammar. Get over it, and deal with it. Or, leave the list. There's really no in between. Steve P.S. It's "English", not "Enslish". From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 18 17:52:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA19210 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:52:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f38.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.38]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA30034 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 01:45:49 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 21:12:08 -0700 Received: from 210.223.219.213 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:12:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [210.223.219.213] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] New moves Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:12:08 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Sep 2000 04:12:08.0347 (UTC) FILETIME=[7206CEB0:01C0205D] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Because of rain (well a monsoon season actually), I was forced to kick in my appartment yesterday and for fear of making too much noise I was basically just working on individual tricks. Anyway I managed to hit 15 new moves, something I daren't hope to ever be able to repeate. Most of them were just easy stuff I hadn't tried before like tapping leg over, but I also managed to hit paradox miraging dino, or paradox torquescrew, as you like it. I tried and failed to hit it blurry (wouldn't that be 7 worthless adds?) but I did hit it stepping, although in all honisty the last dex was more refraction like than dino like. Has anyone ever hit/seen either of these? I want to call the paradox version "spinal graft" because it kind of feels like someone's hiting your spine with a jackhammer while you do it. I also came close to but couldn't quite hit spinning butterfly rake, which I want to name "spiffy." Laters. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 18 17:52:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA19215 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:52:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA31769 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 02:01:01 -0700 Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust183.tnt45.chi5.da.uu.net [63.17.64.183]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19562; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 21:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39C44813.5E31028A@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 23:26:59 -0500 From: Tim Werner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ryan Mulroney , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Oh my God, I cant believe we are still talking about paradox reverse whirl References: <20000915025810.22769.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> <002a01c01f51$9f6b5f40$0200a8c0@pseudo> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Why does everyone care so much about adds???? I just don't get it :) Ryan Mulroney wrote: > .........Why the hell is cross body given an extra add when > it is much easier ending a trick on a clipper than it is on a toe. > .............. > > From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 18 17:51:42 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA19205 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:51:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f193.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.193]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29280 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 01:37:24 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 21:03:43 -0700 Received: from 210.223.219.213 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:03:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [210.223.219.213] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Oh my God, I cant believe we are still talking about paradox reverse whirl Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:03:43 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002a01c01f51$9f6b5f40$0200a8c0@pseudo> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Sep 2000 04:03:43.0677 (UTC) FILETIME=[453846D0:01C0205C] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi gang, Ryan's last to posts were related so I'll reply to them both at once. Regul8tr wrote: >People should worry about going "bail-less". The problem is it is really > hard where as guiltless is not. Amen, this has been my goal since going to my first tournament, I'm finally there, but I still can't do it for long. Moving right along: >The only reason people do moves like paradox reverse whirl is to cheat the >add system and turn a butterfly into a four add trick. >All I am saying is that if you (in the general freestyle community sense of >the word) jump into a shred circle full of top level players and start >doing weak tricks like paradox reverse whirl and symposium butterfly then >you are going to get your ass spanked. You should do yourself a favor and >skool worthy tricks that are more challenging. Ok, maybe I'm taking these two comments out of context, but I definitely detect a bit of "reverse-addism." That is, if I've always thought it was funny that many of the same people who talk about how they don't care about adds do a lot of butterflies, osises, paradox mirages and other guiltless filler (but wouldn't dare to do a more difficult move that's only 2 adds), I also think it's really depressing how players avoid moves that have inflated values for fear people will think they do "cheep" moves. When was the last time anyone here saw a paradox dada curve at world's? I think reverse whirl is unique from butterfly, that aside I know a lot of players who do (and think unique) "paradox" reverse whirl, who don't even know how many adds it is. They think it's unique, and it's stylish as hell. I also do the occasional "paradox" dada curve or "symposium" butterfly in runs, not because of their add values, but because they're fun to do. Go for variety people, ignor the adds. -Andrew P.S. Ryan, please keep the profanity to a minimum. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 18 18:04:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19247 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:04:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1003.mail.yahoo.com (web1003.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.93]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA23956 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 18:02:58 -0700 Received: (qmail 7062 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Sep 2000 20:29:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20000917202947.7061.qmail@web1003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.253.16.52] by web1003.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 13:29:47 PDT Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 13:29:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: [freestyle] two cents To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey... What are you doing when you freestyle? You are jumping around a little bag with your feet. If what you are doing looks cool, then people give you props. If what you are doing looks retarted, then people don't give you props. It has nothing to do with some point value somebody made up, or paradox, or most things people talk about on this list. Shut up about adds. Shut up about paradox. Shut up about the god damn Big Add Posse. Stop yapping, and go play some f...ing freestyle. New levels can be acquired by practice, not by theory. Torch From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 18 18:04:35 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19258 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:04:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25613 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 18:57:00 -0700 Received: from magic.excite.com ([199.172.148.161]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000917212314.BWDR27426.ewey.excite.com@magic.excite.com> for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 14:23:14 -0700 Message-ID: <24548401.969225794416.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 14:23:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Yacine Merzouk To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Can you feel the (egg-) beat? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 24.200.137.253 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi freestylers! I've hit fairy eggbeater at Funtastik and wanted to know if anybody's ever hit it. I was also thinking about nuclear eggbeater - anybody can claim rights on that? Shred. -Yacine _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 18 18:05:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19272 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:05:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ra.nilenet.com (ra.nilenet.com [204.227.31.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA05760 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:37:53 -0700 Received: from footbag.org (slip145.den.nilenet.net [206.247.97.168]) by ra.nilenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/09072000-01) with ESMTP id WAA19521 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:04:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <39C5930A.B760D677@footbag.org> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:59:06 -0600 From: Daryl Genz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Overrated Adds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey All, I haven't posted to this list in a long time, but so long as we're saying the clipper add is maybe little bit overrated, I'd just like to say that I think the *symposium* add needs a little further examination... Why is it that the system rewards you for taking one less step? Some moves (e.g.. miraging legbeater) are much easier without the additional plant. All that aside, I would have to still argue that the clipper add is somewhat more difficult than a toe stall - though definitely not anywhere close to a full add. Genzu PS. I dident think all those non-footbag related posts were "soo" bad, but one of the reasons I haven't kept up with this list lately is that there are just tons of posts - which is awesome - but, can't we all just be friends :-> ? From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 18 18:07:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19294 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:07:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail1.rdc2.bc.home.com (mail1.rdc2.bc.home.com [24.2.10.84]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09877 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:53:49 -0700 Received: from user ([24.70.195.61]) by mail1.rdc2.bc.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20000918055335.SJZI7962.mail1.rdc2.bc.home.com@user> for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:53:35 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01c02135$0046d800$3dc34618@gvsa1.bc.wave.home.com> From: "Allan Haggett" To: Subject: [freestyle] Kenny Shultz Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:55:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org SOOOO good to see you post Kenny:) 'Bout damn time!!! Com'on man, lets hear it!! What do you really feel about all this mess? Skool us!! Allan PS I agree w/Ryan too:) (bandwagoneer I be) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 18 18:08:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19309 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:08:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16399 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 06:46:26 -0700 Received: from default - 63.11.188.152 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 06:45:06 -0700 Message-ID: <001201c02176$c62bf140$98bc0b3f@default> From: "Tina Lewis" To: "Derrick Fogle" , References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse paradox whirl is almost as stupi assymposium butterfly Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 08:45:56 -0500 Organization: Microsoft Corporation X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Way to go Derrick. It is "free" style after all. Tina. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 18 18:10:00 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19324 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:10:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ra.nilenet.com (ra.nilenet.com [204.227.31.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16821 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 07:01:37 -0700 Received: from footbag.org (slip150.den.nilenet.net [206.247.97.173]) by ra.nilenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/09072000-01) with ESMTP id IAA12931 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 08:01:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <39C61EF7.71D43DE5@footbag.org> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 07:56:07 -0600 From: Daryl Genz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Score One For Footbag Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey! On Labor Day weekend, a few of the local shredders (like Brad) and I kicked at the "Taste of Colorado" (several thousand people show up to taste food from booths set up by different restaurants and buy useless crap) in downtown Denver, and a reporter from the Rocky Mountain News stopped by and wrote up an article on me and Paul Mestas. Unfortunately, the only thing the reporter seemed to have on her mind was dollar signs, but we did get in a few good words on footbag. Also, for the record, I quit my job before I won Doubles at worlds and I joined Revolution Footbags (I didn't quit my job as an engineer to be a professional footbag competitor)- two small facts which the article refuses to point out. Besides that, and her description of paradox legbeater, (which, considering the lady that wrote the article has probably never seen anything beyond a flying clipper, is pretty good) the article was pretty good. It showed up on the third page in the paper, which has a circulation of about 750,000. The article can be found at: http://www.insidedenver.com/news/0904tast5.shtml Also, for the record, shortly after the lady wrote up the article on us, we forced to leave the area because we were "drawing too large of a crowd in an area not designated for performances and blocking pedestrian traffic" ... load of horsefeathers IMHO. Peace, Daryl Genz From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 18 18:11:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19338 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:11:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.119]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18290 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 07:48:54 -0700 Received: from storefull-614.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-614.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.34]) by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id BA02E20F8 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 07:48:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from production@localhost) by storefull-614.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id HAA00150; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 07:48:39 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhRwc2EKe2BBgAbrOMNNrFKhcEivAwIVAMY/jLwvWgVFFixNEu4AnygzTqgg From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 10:48:39 -0400 (EDT) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Michigan Tour Message-ID: <23680-39C62B47-318@storefull-614.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-Printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id PAA18772 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In an effort to raise the awareness of footbag in the State of Michigan (and for the joy of shredding in general), two Michigan clubs from Ann Arbor(mfo) and Grand Haven(3cfd) are planning an informal tour of the state with our first stop being the center of Mid-Michigan, Lansing. We invite all shredders, especially those from Michigan to come shred with us, BUT if you can't make it there let us know and we will try to make your club/town the next stop on our Tour. When: Sunday Sept. 24th, 1pm Where: The corner of Mac and Albert, near the MSU campus in East Lansing, MI Who: The Michigan Footbag Organization and the 3rd Coast         Footbag Department. What: The first shred of our tour of Michigan For exact directions or to answer any questions: contact the MFO: write to mcraig@provide.net or GFSmoothie@webtv.net contact the 3CFD: write to masuga@novagate.net or check the MFO website at: www.michiganfootbag.org/events.html Godfather From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 18 18:30:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19435 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:30:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail4.dialogic.com ([146.152.6.40]) by mail-dns1-nj.dialogic.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: dialogic.m4,v 1.3 2000/05/05 13:56:23 dmccart Exp $) with ESMTP id WAA16843; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:23:52 GMT Received: from exchange3nj.dialogic.com (mailnj.dialogic.com [146.152.3.18]) by mail4.dialogic.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28950; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 18:20:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by EXCHANGE3NJ with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 18:19:56 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002a01c01f51$9f6b5f40$0200a8c0@pseudo> From: "Coventry, Damian" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Cc: Ryan Mulroney Subject: Re: [freestyle] clipper easier than toe (was: Oh my God, I cant believe...) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 18:25:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ryan Mulroney [mailto:regul8tr@uclink4.berkeley.edu] wrote: > Since, I complain about the topics on the list so much I will try and > introduce a decent topic: Why the hell is cross body given an > extra add when it is much easier ending a trick on a clipper than it > is on a toe?. yeh i agree dude, it is easier now - but, in the beginning it wasn't, was it? the toe delay action is undeniably a more natural leg movement than a clipper delay action. when a player starts this sport i bet in almost all cases that player lands a toe delay before a clipper delay simply because that action is more natural, hell it's basically a walking action. clipper on the other hand (other foot? ;)), requires crossing your legs and curling your ankle, not a natural action and more difficult than a toe delay at first, hence the extra add. damian ps: some incorrect spelling, just for steve: daffad sfadsfads kjfdas From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 05:34:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22500 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 05:34:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from davisbrody.com (mail.davisbrody.com [205.253.194.181]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30281 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 12:50:34 -0700 Received: from davisbrody.com [209.73.237.244] by davisbrody.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.04) id A2762E83019C; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:52:22 -0400 Message-ID: <39C671C2.10C50B3@davisbrody.com> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:49:23 -0400 From: Bruce Dole X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse paradox whirl is almost as stupi as symposium butterfly References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derrick Fogle wrote: > on 9/15/00 11:17 AM, Bruce Dole at bdole@davisbrody.com wrote: > > > FUN! FREESTYLE! Who started playing this sport because they wanted to get more > > "adds?" > > Not that I'm one of them, but I think there are a group of young players > that have been drawn into the sport because of that very quest for superior > difficulty. The big adds, accomplishing the difficult stuff, that's the fun > in freestyle for them. Derrick, As far as I'm concerned, you've got one of the best angles on footbag that I've heard so far. But just to clarify my original statement, so no one is confused out there, I wasn't equating adds with difficulty. I was trying to get people to think of how much fun they had when they first started playing this game, and making progress...the first few times you really felt, "YEAH, I can DO this!" For most of the people out there I think that these moments occurred long before they knew what an "add" was. Adds suck. Footbag ROCKS. It's nice to know that someone out there is still having fun, and conveying THAT ASPECT of footbag to the public...Derrick, you're the MAN! GO, GO, GO!!! Bruce Dole NYFA PS (Different thread; would it make anyone feel better if we called it reverse-whirl-style butterfly?) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 05:33:13 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22494 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 05:33:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA32696 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 02:20:14 -0700 Received: from smegma.mindspring.com (user-2ivf51s.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.148.60]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03659 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 00:47:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.1.20000917000928.00b7fc00@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: ecrvich@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 00:44:26 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] Engwish 101 and list police and good nanners In-Reply-To: References: <52.b9984d.26f523cf@aol.com> <52.b9984d.26f523cf@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 08:53 PM 9/16/00 -0700, Steve Goldberg wrote: >We are also prettty strict about good grammar and punctuation. Really? So are BAP members exempt? What about flagrant and unnecessary use of expletives? Ditto on that one too? What about bandwidth wastage by irreverant non-sycophantic types with a penchant for frivolity? >Get over it, and deal with it. Or, leave the list. There's really no in >between. Stress makes people do and say the strangest things! I got my Mediocre Man laser wand (with bright yellow space suit, adjustable harness, random protuberances, and an extra-large red shiny "Don't Touch Me" button) in the mail today, and let me tell you it's a humdinger! I feel really spiffy in my new garb, and no one dares risk a melee with me anymore...I'll be walking down the street in my sunny plastic body wrap and some recalcitrant ruffian will approach me as if to purloin my goods...I just wave my wand and give a little shake with my ample hips and presto! Off the would-be no-gooder will scamper like a frightened feline! I'm on top of the world, I tell you! And I think there was a footbag involved at some point. -- Ernest M. Crvich Durham, NC Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 05:36:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22517 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 05:36:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f231.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.231]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07623 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:45:40 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:45:10 -0700 Received: from 63.255.45.4 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:45:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.255.45.4] From: "Bryan Fournier" To: damocles_schwert@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Oh my God, I cant believe we are still talking about paradox reverse whirl Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:45:09 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Sep 2000 23:45:10.0047 (UTC) FILETIME=[7B33B2F0:01C021CA] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "Andrew McCargar" wrote: >When was the last time anyone here saw a paradox dada curve at >world's? Baloney!! I saw pdx and gyro dada (amadeus) at worlds each move from atleast 2 people...they may have "inflated" add values but it didn't matter...at the moment it was just a bad ass move being hit or linked. I wouldn't bust pdx. drifter just because a pdx. dada would be considered a lame move. And even if it was I'd try to bust it both sides to shun the idea of lameness... when daryl busts symp. butterfly on b.s. in runs he's probly not worrying if someone's going to think its lame or care about it being considered an add anomaly...especially if he's slicing and dicing through a clean/healthy string of calculated triplessness....it all has to do with style...everything else is just hot air... ~Bryan Fournier OOPS! Footbag Club Hermosa Beach, CA. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 05:37:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22538 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 05:37:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14186 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:20:24 -0700 Received: from pacbell.net ([64.160.25.33]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G1400JKD3MJW0@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:16:55 -0700 From: Chris Pinkus Subject: Re: [freestyle] Overrated Adds To: freestyle footbag Message-id: <39C6CC97.7055F999@pacbell.net> In-Reply-To: <39C5930A.B760D677@footbag.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Since I've only been playing for a year, I don't have all the muscles required for a top freestyler, but I think symposium does in fact deserver that add. It's really hard to get your hamstring strong enough to pull them off. Although once you can pull it off once it's much easier to do from then on (but isn't that the case with almost every move?). Chris Pinkus The Blitzkrieger Daryl Genz wrote: > Hey All, > > I haven't posted to this list in a long time, but > so long as we're saying the clipper add is > maybe little bit overrated, I'd just like to > say that I think the *symposium* add needs a > little further examination... Why is it that the > system rewards you for taking one less step? > Some moves (e.g.. miraging legbeater) are much > easier without the additional plant. > > All that aside, I would have to still argue that the > clipper add is somewhat more difficult than a > toe stall - though definitely not anywhere close > to a full add. > > Genzu > > PS. I dident think all those non-footbag related posts > were "soo" bad, but one of the reasons I haven't kept > up with this list lately is that there are just tons of > posts - which is awesome - but, can't we all just be > friends :-> ? From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 05:41:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22581 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 05:41:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from sfo.jsishipping.com (jsishipping.com [207.33.33.34]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16210 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 20:17:47 -0700 Received: from sfofw1.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.36]) by sfo.jsishipping.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-64750U500L500S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 20:16:26 -0700 Message-ID: <067d01c021e7$84dcd1c0$4981020a@sfo.jsishipping.com> In-Reply-To: <002a01c01f51$9f6b5f40$0200a8c0@pseudo> From: "Eric Wulff" To: "freestyle" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Oh my God, I cant believe we are still talking about paradox reverse whirl Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 20:12:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Oh My!.... there is much gettin thrown around this list lately and I have no time to reply to all that I want to in the right way. But its now getten to the point where I have to say somethin so... Ryan "Doesn't Live Up to His BAP Name ""the Regulator"" at all... does he?" Mulroney wrote... >If you are Rippin Rick Reese and want to reply and defend these tricks >like I know you want to then so be it. I say... ouch! Where'd that friggin come from?! :) >Why the hell is cross body given an extra add when it is much easier >ending a trick on a clipper than it is on a toe. Once you have been >playing long enough to have a good clipper you will know what I am >talking about. The key here is "playing long enough". I think in your rip into a few others and this particular concept you are especially discrediting yourself Ryan. A clipper is very easy for you because you have become an elite player. The moves you talk about aren't "easy" as much as they are "easy for you". You're a bad ass shredder biff. There are many situations where it is much easier to "bail" to a toe... but you or we may bail to a clipper or other move that ends with a cross body contact because we are "the shit!" :):) Also, it's not just about bails to toes but also sets from toes. Like blur from toe vs. from x-body. I think this is just the style of the time. Clipper isn't easier it's just more in practice for many right now. I could imagine rather doing a blur out of a double pick-up than out of a pardon. also... >IT IS NOT ABOUT ADDS. IT IS ABOUT SKILL. right on... it's also about gettin funky and stylin your own bad self. Put your print on freestyle.... Eric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 05:42:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22593 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 05:42:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from f04n07.cac.psu.edu (f04s07.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.35]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20248 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:39:47 -0700 Received: from psu.edu (tnt1-38-181.cac.psu.edu [128.118.38.181]) by f04n07.cac.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA220382 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 01:39:38 -0400 Message-ID: <39C7261F.6E4816D3@psu.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 01:38:55 -0700 From: Kaiser Ahmad X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] phat session Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, everyone! Alex Faber (Integer) and I just had a short schooling session after a hard Penn State Trio shred session with Scott Bevier (Great Scott!). I'm not trying to start another boasting thread on the list, but I wanted to share our accomplishments with everyone. During the shred session, Great Scott hit too much stuff for me to run through. Basically, he did his crazy runs ranging from anywhere between 10-30 contacts in a string. (shooting legover was a phat move!) Integer and I hit some cool stuff during the shred too, but then we went and had a short schooling session for new tricks and combos after Scott left. We both hit spinning paradox mirage (or spinning mirage, whatever you want to call it). Alex hit gyro reverse mirage and landed a symposium toe blizzard. We both proceeded to hit stepping mirage (which I find a lot harder than blur). Then I managed to hit the cleanest barrage that I have ever hit; My barrages usually feel rough, but this one came through clean as hell. I also hit diving butterfly to gyro mirage. Then I got angry because I kicked away another blurrage. I know that all three dexes were legit and clean, but for some reason, whenever I get my toe on blurrage, I kick it away. Any tips, anyone? Alright, that was all for that session. I know that there are a lot of you out there that may feel these moves are not truly phat, but for us, these moves are dope. We're climbing up the ladder of super shredders, slow and steady, but we'll get there. Penn State Trio rocks! And so do the rest of you guys; Keep shredding hard and have fun. Adds are cool, freestyle is cooler. Kaiser - Soze, Penn State Trio - LordKay, NYFA From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 05:45:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22613 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 05:45:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dfw-smtpout4.email.verio.net (dfw-smtpout4.email.verio.net [129.250.36.44]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22024 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:28:13 -0700 Received: from [129.250.38.64] (helo=dfw-mmp4.email.verio.net) by dfw-smtpout4.email.verio.net with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #7) id 13bVs4-0007iJ-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:28:12 +0000 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (helo=[209.107.90.78]) by dfw-mmp4.email.verio.net with esmtp (Exim 3.15 #4) id 13bVs4-0001Do-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:28:12 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:27:41 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson Subject: [freestyle] APP's: What qualifies for an Additional Presentation Point? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! APPs or ASPs? -A Novel debating the quantification of style First off, since I am proposing the quantification of style, I want to name the concept appropriately. It is either: "Additional Presentation Points (APP's)" or "Additional Style Points (ASP's)". I like the sound of ASP's when it is spoken outloud as Additional Style Points, but I like the sound of the abbreviation APP's when spoken out loud and used in the same sentence as ADD's, i.e. "Not only did that player set a record in ADD's, but he also shredded the APP's, which put him/her over the top"! So for the rest of this discussion, I will use APP's when referring to this concept. Derrick's argument about kicking in crowds is RIGHT ON! My most fulfilling strings are not those 25+ tripless combos with all those fluffy PWhirls and Spinning Butterflies (and lots of 5's) and my other 4-add bail moves, not that those aren't fulfilling. When I am playing to live music and keeping to the beat while throwing in all the fixins of presentation, feeling the music and still shredding an honorable string, people "get" that... the guys here in Chicago will probably agree, these get the most audience response. It all goes back to the fact that most people are impressed if you can *kick* it 25 times in a row. So any kind of a trick, done in conjunction with the music, has as much beauty and value as the heart you put into it. I hope to make it out to one of Derrick's shreds, the five hour drive only means I need to leave work at noon to get there when he starts, I'm slowly talking myself into this. This brings me to my real point... if we want to reward the players for "communicating" and "relating" to the audience and the music, then we need to look at what "turns on the audience" and apply points there. Since nobody choked on my proposal to consider APPs, and since nobody bit on it either, I am approaching this as a unique thread. I want to come up with a "nearly complete" list of things that qualify for APPs and go back to this years finals singles routines and see how the players would have scored (and see how hard it is to score this way)... this will help to see how much weight we should give to the APP score to balance correctly with difficulty/execution/variety type scoring. The goal is to get the most thorough list. The best way to do this, I feel, is to first come up with a list of things off the tops of our heads (Derrick, please chime in on this one... I wish Sam could see this thread), then review the routines from finals 2000 and see what caught our eyes as "what we want to see in a good performance in order to relate to the audience and music" (Derrick, please chime in on this one) and add that to our existing list... My list is as follows (please help me to update it by adding/removing elements): PRESENTATION ELEMENTS (APP): Any time a player accomplishes something on the list below (still needs input and discussion on what qualifies as an APP) Balance Move Strength Move Unusual Surface Smiles and other personality elements (TBD) Each pair of tricks on the beat Music and Player "freeze" in unison Intentional Travel (per two contacts) Original Move Original Combo Intentional Arm Movements Audience Participation Dance Move Flying Move When a Trick is performed syncronously with lyrics Matched Pairs (equal use of both sides) ADD OTHER STUFF HERE (please make suggestions as to what other things might be included in this list) PS: Who on the list is capable of sending me a copy of this years finals singles open routines, for which I will gladly pay a fee, (I had two camcorders with me, and I didn't get more than a couple of scattered routines on tape, none from finals) so I can review them for details? So please chime in on this, I know it seems like a long post, but there is soooo much more to say about presentation, and since you are all so fed up with adds (I'll revisit the MADDs concept, which can be applied to this new system with the snap of our fingers, in a later post), lets talk about what gets the audience "into" the performance and give credit where credit is due (not giving credit to the guy who drifts across the floor the advantage, while ignoring other important aspects of presentation). I separated this topic from the rest of the system, as I'll do with ADDs/MADDs and then again with LINKS in later posts. I am psyched about getting this list together, and applying it to the routines from Worlds2000 and getting comparison scores to see how the new compares to the existing. Thanks (IA) for your input. See ya! Scott Davidson enlightener@footbag.org From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 05:46:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22627 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 05:46:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ems.salk.edu (ems.salk.edu [198.202.69.12]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23431 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:57:12 -0700 Received: from [198.202.67.188] (198.202.67.188) by ems.salk.edu (Worldmail 1.3.167) for freestyle@footbag.org; 19 Sep 2000 15:59:47 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <020b01c01f67$e236ab20$4981020a@sfo.jsishipping.com> References: <39C0E939.53A2D46A@dallasfootbag.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:54:29 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Cameron Kennedy Subject: Re: [freestyle] paradox in spins, was computerized Scoring(an . . Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Hi all... > >Derric Scalf wrote... >> The spinning paradox is now official - though it is still debated. The xdex >> and the inspinning adds are not yet official. >> Anyone care to comment on this? > >Okay... not that I disagree that their can be a paradox in a spin but this >totally cracks me up. Who "made this official"?! Hah... did you make it >official Derric? Did Steve? > >I know... wait... 10 people on the list agreed with it so it's now >official... right? > >Eric Sounds like consensus by plurality. I heard somewhere that the footbag.org website belongs to the players. Consensus seems to be a logical way to keep the movelist up to date with what the players are thinking. It is after all a resource for the players right ? Why make it difficult to keep the move list up to date, It just decreases the usefulness of the resources Steve and Derric have worked so hard to provide. Cameron From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 05:46:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22639 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 05:46:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26403 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:54:30 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G1501101RQMJE@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:54:22 -0600 (MDT) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Computerized Scoring (A new fork of Scott's Scoring System thread) In-reply-to: <39C0E939.53A2D46A@dallasfootbag.org> To: Derric Scalf Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org To save myself time I won't elaborate on my opinions unless someone wants me to. On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Derric Scalf wrote: > The spinning paradox is now official - though it is still debated. Good! I think it's deserved. > The xdex and the inspinning adds are not yet official. I think inspinning adds a harder spinning element and deserves an extra add. What is xdex? I mean it looks like cross-body dexterity, but in what context? Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 05:47:12 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22651 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 05:47:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26472 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:56:22 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G1501101RTXKE@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:56:21 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:56:21 -0600 (MDT) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] very possible In-reply-to: <003b01c01e8f$13557c60$b9f13a82@swarthmore.edu> To: Tony Carter-Piff Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Tony Carter-Piff wrote: > Not in response to Ken's post, but on the same sort of topic: has frigid > swirl been hit/tried/thought of? I hit it over two years ago. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 05:48:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22669 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 05:48:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G1501201U37LX@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:45:07 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:45:07 -0600 (MDT) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Oh my God, I cant believe we are still talking about paradox reverse whirl In-reply-to: <002a01c01f51$9f6b5f40$0200a8c0@pseudo> To: Ryan Mulroney Cc: freestyle@list.footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Ryan Mulroney wrote: > > First of all the Big Add Posse has long outgrown its name. It is not about > doing big adds but shredding the fuck out of whatever moves you are doing. Cool then maybe it should be renamed S.L.A.M. "Shred Like A Motherfucker" and open membership to all kickers no matter what level who are "shredding the fuck out of whatever moves" they are doing. > if you think that you can get into BAP by cheating the add system and doing > unworthy 5's like sypmosium paradox whirl then you are mistaken. It is not > so much about big adds as much as it is just about being really good at > footbag. You're right, but if one were to consider it at least a butterfly or a more accurate symposium butterfly then it wouldn't be cheating because it's still a move that current BAP members use, though a really good player only uses it as a balance and transition move. > No, but as a top player I can voice my opinion and try to give advice to > misled players who think that they can get into BAP by doing moves as weak > as "symp paradox reverse whirl" Agreed, but I don't think it's weak move, just not 6 adds in any belief system. > No, but perhaps more of these elite players would write in if we actually > had some more meaningful debates. Many BAP members read the list but few of > them ever write in because the list focusses on the stupidest topics > possible. That's why it's so cool that you and Eli and Rick and Ahren and Scott and Sunil and Eric and others are on the list. The level of discussion on the list is for all players. It's the Elite/BAP players who are looked up to and who are seen on all the videos. A lot of people on this list want to know your opinions and want to be that good and know how you guys do it. I agree that in reality Reverse whirl is just a glorified butterfly. I think it's cool for a little variation but not as a BIG ASS MOVE. (hey that could be the new BAP name "BAM"... Whoa cheesy). Anyway, as a glorified butterfly it still is a staple move for a lot of players and can stay that way. > jump into a shred circle > full of top level players and start doing weak tricks like paradox reverse > whirl and symposium butterfly then you are going to get your ass spanked. > You should do yourself a favor and skool worthy tricks that are more > challenging. You know I've seen Paul Mestas do stepping symposium reverse whirl and I think it looks like a cool move. I've seen Daryl Genz do a ton of Symposium butterflys, Rick Reese too. I think those are cool moves and are no worse than butterfly or ripwalk or dada. I don't think they deserve a spanking especially since (I think you said this) you've seen many BAP members do cool ass guilty shit. A person who plays for a long enough time and aquires a certain skill level is going to move through so many tricks that they'll forget half of what they even know how to hit and maybe reverse whirl will be in there and maybe it won't. This whole discussion will be forgotten in 6 months anyway and somone else will bring it all up again. > Since, I complain about the topics on the list so much I will try and > introduce a decent topic: Why the hell is cross body given an extra add when > it is much easier ending a trick on a clipper than it is on a toe. Once you > have been playing long enough to have a good clipper you will know what I am > talking about. The biggest problem with the add system is that it rewards > you for bailing to your clipper. There are many top level players (I won't > name any names) that have a very difficult time doing toe tricks yet they > can keep the bag on their clippers for 20 or 30 tricks. This is why tripless > is sufffering. Toe tricks are hard yet they are all three adds because of a Amen to this topic! I think Barfly/paradon is a hell of a lot easier than reaper/dbl switchover. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 05:48:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22684 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 05:48:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28897 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:52:48 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G1501201UFYRW@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:52:46 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:52:46 -0600 (MDT) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] New Move?...one for the ENLIGHTENER To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Pixie-twirl toe> same in> x-body front> body> back spin> op clip. I just mutilated that notation but it's like a pixie op osis with a swirl in between. I've finally started hitting it after a weeks worth of skooling. I haven't named it yet... If I even have the rights to it. Also been working on gyro symposium blur, but no results yet. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 05:49:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22698 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 05:49:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pseudo (c517473-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.20.24.118]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id e8K4DhJ30461 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <007f01c022b9$79661040$0200a8c0@pseudo> From: "Ryan Mulroney" To: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Oh my God, I cant believe we are still talking about paradox reverse whirl Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:15:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andrew wrote: > P.S. Ryan, please keep the profanity to a minimum. I just get very frustrated talking to you people. In reference to this whole ordeal Kenny Shults wrote: > I agree with Ryan. Enough said. Ryan From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 05:51:10 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22725 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 05:51:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pseudo (c517473-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.20.24.118]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id e8K4KCJ22218 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008301c022ba$60f4eee0$0200a8c0@pseudo> From: "Ryan Mulroney" To: References: <39C5930A.B760D677@footbag.org> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Overrated Adds Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:22:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Daryl wrote: > I'd just like to > say that I think the *symposium* add needs a > little further examination... Why is it that the > system rewards you for taking one less step? Because ninety-nine percent of the time it is a lot harder. However, I imagine that at least four or five people who can't even do a symposium trick will disagree with me. Ryan Mulroney From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 05:52:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22746 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 05:52:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pseudo (c517473-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.20.24.118]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id e8K4VVJ14422 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:31:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008701c022bb$f5cc2780$0200a8c0@pseudo> From: "Ryan Mulroney" To: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] clipper easier than toe (was: Oh my God, I cant believe...) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:33:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I wrote: > > Since, I complain about the topics on the list so much I will try and > > introduce a decent topic: Why the hell is cross body given an > > extra add when it is much easier ending a trick on a clipper than it > > is on a toe?. Damian wrote: > yeh i agree dude, it is easier now - but, in the beginning it wasn't, was > it? Exactly my point. If we were still playing in the eighties then clipper would still be hard and we should give it an extra add. But last I checked, we were no longer playing in the eighties. To prove my point I would like everyone to go and try to do a guiltless string with all toes. Then do a guiltless string with all cross body moves. If anyone can do a valid and worthy string with all toes then I applaud you (sunil excluded). I am willing to bet that every "advanced" player can do a lengthy string with all cross body moves. Also, I have taken crap for nitpicking add issues while claiming to be an add-abolitionist. If adds were actually eradicated then I would stop complaining. Since I don't see that happening any time soon, I am going to try to argue and change what I can until all talk of adds ceases. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 05:52:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA22765 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 05:52:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from gigi.excite.com (gigi.excite.com [199.172.152.110]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04874 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:03:07 -0700 Received: from sammy ([199.172.153.124]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000920050303.BNSP14106.gigi.excite.com@sammy> for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:03:03 -0700 Message-ID: <20161568.969426183862.JavaMail.imail@sammy> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:03:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Davidson To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Gyro Stepping Set, does it have a name? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 207.208.141.47 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! Big thanks to Chad and the list for exposing this new, gyro stepping set. Does it have a name? Ryan is right that we will see more of this move! When I do it to op osis, i.e. R Clip set R Leg dex and spin R to L Osis is technically a Mobius, but it feels like "Extra Crispy Mobius". I have also done it to R Osis (Same Osis), which I call Nobius. I LOVE this set! Big potential here. See ya! Scott Davidson enlightener@footbag.org _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 06:15:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA22894 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 06:15:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22891 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 06:15:42 -0700 Received: from adsl-63-195-123-115.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net (adsl-63-195-123-115.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.195.123.115]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06099 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:38:27 -0700 Received: from bfk by adsl-63-195-123-115.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net with local (Exim 3.16 #1 (Debian)) id 13bcaR-0006X3-00; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:38:27 -0700 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:38:27 -0700 From: "Brian F. Kimball" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Engwish 101 and list police and good nanners Message-ID: <20000919223826.V24621@adsl-63-195-123-115.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net> Mail-Followup-To: freestyle@footbag.org References: <52.b9984d.26f523cf@aol.com> <52.b9984d.26f523cf@aol.com> <4.3.2.7.1.20000917000928.00b7fc00@pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.1.20000917000928.00b7fc00@pop.mindspring.com>; from ecrvich@mindspring.com on Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 12:44:26AM -0400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well, as moderator I had killed this thread, but Ernest's post was just too damn creative to bounce. On Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 12:44:26AM -0400, Ernest Crvich wrote: > At 08:53 PM 9/16/00 -0700, Steve Goldberg wrote: > >We are also prettty strict about good grammar and punctuation. > > Really? So are BAP members exempt? No. But I'll add that I only bounce messages for the above reasons if they have an excessive amount of mistakes in them, so much so that I consider them to be unreadable. A few typos or mispellings won't get anyone bounced (although they may get flamed by Steve :-). > What about flagrant and unnecessary use of expletives? Ditto on that > one too? I don't worry about it; perhaps Steve does. If he does he'll tell me. > What about bandwidth wastage by irreverant non-sycophantic types with a > penchant for frivolity? No, I could never bounce you. :-) Finally, since I've been getting some shit from various people I'll add two points: 1) Steve owns footbag.org and list.footbag.org in particular. He was the guy who originally created this list. This is /his/ list; he sets the policy (which I agree with, especially after moderating the list for the past 6 months). 2) Steve has direct access to the list. So don't yell at me for sending his messages to the list if he says something you don't like; I have no control over him. :-) Cheers, Brian From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 06:19:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA22910 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 06:19:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from sammy ([199.172.153.124]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000920052118.BPNR14106.gigi.excite.com@sammy> for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:21:18 -0700 Message-ID: <25224460.969427278851.JavaMail.imail@sammy> In-Reply-To: <002a01c01f51$9f6b5f40$0200a8c0@pseudo> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:21:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Davidson To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Oh my God, I cant believe we are still talking about paradox reverse whirl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 207.208.141.47 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! Ryan Mulroney wrote: > If you noticed this year no one cared about tripless. Basically, this is > because no one is good enough yet to claim tripless without doing a ton of > ripwalks, paradox whirls, and other bail fours. The most props were given to > guys like Lon who bust out sick shit whether it be 3, 4, 5, or 6 adds. If > you think that you can get into BAP by cheating the add system and doing > unworthy 5's like sypmosium paradox whirl then you are mistaken. It is not > so much about big adds as much as it is just about being really good at > footbag. You have to be able to do everything and do it well. Someone else said something like "they would like to see butterflies, osis and paradox mirages eliminated." I think that "Bails" are going to be there no matter what level you play. Only a handful of people consider PWhirls, Spinning Butterflies and Ripwalks as bail moves, and they are certainly better to see than their 3 add alternates (and more tiring and more difficult). It all comes down to what you skool and what you can master. Using the assumption that bail moves will exist because players need to set big moves from comfortable places, then when you remove the most obvious bail moves, like Butterflies, Paradox Mirages, Whirls and Osis, what happens? You replace them with moves that are more comfortable for YOU. I am all over tripless, I still see it as the future for all of you, I can't help myself. I encourage everyone to take their most comfortable moves and throw them out (for training purposes, of course you will use them in routines for variety, stability and to rack up some adds) and skool unusual combinations for yourself. If it ends up that your "bails" are fours, then more power to you. Even people who complain about bail moves have their own bail moves. Lets put our money where our mouths are, lets identify "bail moves" and not give points for them in Shred Contests (for Unique or for ADDs or both). That way, the text book shredder who just rattles off a bunch of unique threes on both sides can't beat the guy who REALLY shredded! I bet there won't be a lot of 4 add moves that make the "bail" list, at least not for a while. See ya! Scott Davidson enlightener@footbag.org _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 06:20:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA22923 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 06:20:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05726 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:25:02 -0700 Received: from sammy ([199.172.153.124]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000920052453.BHIU9734.kuku.excite.com@sammy> for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:24:53 -0700 Message-ID: <7402703.969427493342.JavaMail.imail@sammy> In-Reply-To: <39C5930A.B760D677@footbag.org> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:24:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Davidson To: freestyle footbag Subject: Re: [freestyle] Overrated Adds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 207.208.141.47 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! Daryl Genz wrote: > All that aside, I would have to still argue that the > clipper add is somewhat more difficult than a > toe stall - though definitely not anywhere close > to a full add. And then when you combine it with other elements of difficulty. And other cross bodies, gonna take away that? And what about identifying unique moves, what then? I still think ADDs are a good indicator of difficulty, and an excellent indicator of Unique Moves, although it should be considered that ADDs are not the only indicator of "Unique" move. Stepping Mirage vs. Barrage, ADDs say they are identical moves, but simply viewing the two, the average eye would not be able to tell they are the same move... perhaps we should give the judges lee-way to allow the "same" move to be counted as unique if done "significantly" differently (in the Extreme Freestyle System, recently proposed) See ya! Scott Davidson enlightener@footbag.org _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 20 06:44:25 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA23167 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 06:44:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail4.dialogic.com ([146.152.6.40]) by mail-dns1-nj.dialogic.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: dialogic.m4,v 1.3 2000/05/05 13:56:23 dmccart Exp $) with ESMTP id GAA23238; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 06:04:05 GMT Received: from exchange3nj.dialogic.com (mailnj.dialogic.com [146.152.3.18]) by mail4.dialogic.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA23995; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 02:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by EXCHANGE3NJ with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 02:00:06 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <008701c022bb$f5cc2780$0200a8c0@pseudo> From: "Coventry, Damian" To: Ryan Mulroney Cc: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] clipper easier than toe (was: Oh my God, I cant b elieve...) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 02:05:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ryan Mulroney wrote: > If adds were actually eradicated then I would stop > complaining. Since I don't see that happening any time soon, > I am going to try to argue and change what I can until all > talk of adds ceases. > fair enough, but then how would we rate the difficulty of freestyle moves? perhaps we don't need to rate the moves, but it does provide the basis of a fair judging system at worlds.... Damian Coventry Software Engineer Dialogic, an Intel Company Phone: (649)366-1135 ext. 878 Cell Phone: 021-252-7776 Fax: 649-302-1793 MailTo:damian.coventry@dialogic.com http://www.dialogic.com From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 21 03:43:32 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA24627 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:43:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Chad Devlahovich Received: from imo-r17.mx.aol.com (imo-r17.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.71]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08910 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 00:31:45 -0700 Received: from BigAddChad@aol.com by imo-r17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id o.93.c31154 (4397); Wed, 20 Sep 2000 03:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <93.c31154.26f9c1a5@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <20161568.969426183862.JavaMail.imail@sammy> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 03:30:45 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gyro Stepping Set, does it have a name? To: Footbag_Enlightener@excite.com CC: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Scott and others, I have dubbed the term "surging" for gyro stepping sets followed by a paradox element. Listed below are moves I have hit using this set, along with their names. surging mirage(gyro stepping paradox mirage) = SURGE surging whirl(gyro stepping paradox whirl) = SURREAL gyro ripwalk(gyro stepping opp. butterfly) = BIGWALK ??? Later, Big Add Chad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 21 03:44:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA24637 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:44:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net ([207.160.174.55]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA19644 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 06:29:23 -0700 Received: from [207.160.174.20] (HELO [207.160.174.20]) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.2.4) with ESMTP id 124061 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 03:28:35 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:28:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Overrated Adds From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle footbag Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <7402703.969427493342.JavaMail.imail@sammy> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org on 9/19/00 10:24 PM, Scott Davidson at Footbag_Enlightener@excite.com wrote: > would not be able to tell they are the same move... perhaps we should give > the judges lee-way to allow the "same" move to be counted as unique if done > "significantly" differently (in the Extreme Freestyle System, recently Everyone, as a judge, already has not only the leeway to do this, but the responsibility to do this. Judges need to be critical, involved, thinking. Hiding behind some formula is shirking responsibility. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 21 03:45:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA24657 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:45:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net ([207.160.174.55]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20320 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 06:53:55 -0700 Received: from [207.160.174.20] (HELO [207.160.174.20]) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.2.4) with ESMTP id 124090 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 03:53:07 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:53:20 -0700 Subject: Re: [freestyle] APP's: What qualifies for an Additional Presentation Point? From: Derrick Fogle To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org on 9/19/00 3:27 PM, Scott Davidson at enlightener@footbag.org wrote: > PRESENTATION ELEMENTS (APP): Any time a player accomplishes something on the > list below (still needs input and discussion on what qualifies as an APP) > Balance Move > Strength Move > Unusual Surface > Smiles and other personality > elements (TBD) > Each pair of tricks on the beat > Music and Player "freeze" in > unison > Intentional Travel (per two > contacts) > Original Move > Original Combo > Intentional Arm Movements > Audience Participation > Dance Move > Flying Move > When a Trick is performed > syncronously with lyrics > Matched Pairs (equal use of both sides) > ADD OTHER STUFF HERE (please > make suggestions as to what > other things might be included > in this list) Scott, on his neverending quest to quantify the un-quantifiable. I don't really have anything against this 'list', but what would a 'dance move' be? I don't think it can be defined. Here's a simple idea: take all the young punks that are all wrapped up in difficulty and let them do whatever they want to determine the 'difficulty' of a performance. Put us seasoned kickers on the "APP" panel. I think I could trust anyone whos competition record pre-dates BAP. Any 3 of us would not agree with one another, but we would come up with a very good composite. Just let us give you a score - 1-10 - and add that to what your difficulty judges come up with. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 21 03:46:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA24680 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:46:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20584; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 07:04:19 -0700 Received: from default - 63.11.188.50 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 07:02:59 -0700 Message-ID: <007401c0230b$a66abf80$60b90b3f@default> From: "Tina Lewis" To: , "Scott Davidson" References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] APP's: What qualifies for an Additional Presentation Point? Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:53:14 -0500 Organization: Microsoft Corporation X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wow, the circle is complete. As I remember in my old age - the whole point of ADDS was to give freestyle some "objective" way of scoring and to give credit and encourage competitors to do difficult tricks in their routines. Hints of favortism and influencing judges abounded. I remember there was discussion and feeling by some freestylers that it was too easy to just win on "style" or "presentation" and that this was way too subjective and uncertain. Though I'm a big proponent of presentation I certainly agree that we should encourage difficulty and I understand the frustration with "subjective" judging. I believe the ADDS solution was a beautiful one - it has acheived the goal of encouraging and rewarding difficulty in freestyle without crunching out the "style" and "presentation" aspects that make freestyle an art form as well as a sport. To now try and quantify this more "artistic" and hence subjective part of the sport is amusing and I believe futile. You just end up with only the "objective" adds again. Once you agree that an add has a certain point value you are home free on that. How do you measure or quantify "flow," "grace," "humor" and flat out love of what you are doing? Art and beauty are very different from an objective agreement on the point value of a kick, they depend on the perception and experience and feelings of the viewer as well as the heart and soul of the kicker. A computer can never measure that adequately and I hope it never will. I know ya'll are trying to improve the scoring system and the sport and its incredibly heartening to see so many dedicated footbaggers but don't struggle too much with something that you are supposed to feel and not measure. Tina. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 21 03:55:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA24761 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:55:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from davisbrody.com (mail.davisbrody.com [205.253.194.181]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22156 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 07:53:46 -0700 Received: from davisbrody.com [209.73.237.244] by davisbrody.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.04) id A015D710204; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:56:21 -0400 Message-ID: <39C8CF2E.3D03CE28@davisbrody.com> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:52:30 -0400 From: Bruce Dole X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] clipper easier than toe (was: Oh my God, I cant believe...) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "Coventry, Damian" wrote: > Ryan Mulroney wrote: > > > If adds were actually eradicated then I would stop > > complaining. Since I don't see that happening any time soon, > > I am going to try to argue and change what I can until all > > talk of adds ceases. > > > > fair enough, but then how would we rate the difficulty of > freestyle moves? > > perhaps we don't need to rate the moves, but it does provide > the basis of a fair judging system at worlds.... > How about a separate discussion list for competitive (add-based) footbag? That way everyone who wanted to could argue about adds on that list, and the freestyle list could talk about freestyle? Bruce From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 21 03:58:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA24778 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:58:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24983; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:23:35 -0700 Received: from sammy ([199.172.153.124]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000920162301.CGWD178.ewey.excite.com@sammy>; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:23:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1955011.969466981287.JavaMail.imail@sammy> In-Reply-To: <007401c0230b$a66abf80$60b90b3f@default> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:23:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Davidson To: Tina Lewis , freestyle@footbag.org, Scott Davidson Subject: Re: [freestyle] APP's: What qualifies for an Additional Presentation Point? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 209.107.90.78 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Tina and Freestylers! On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:53:14 -0500, Tina Lewis wrote: > To now try and quantify this > more "artistic" and hence subjective part of the sport is amusing and I > believe futile. You just end up with only the "objective" adds again. And you have a problem with this, how? It is the best solution (so far) to an antiquated (sp?), outdated, mysterious, inaccurate, VAGUE and fluffy existing system. At least this way we will know when and where we should be getting points, it has a two fold effect... it lets the players know what the judges are looking for, and it lets the judges be CLEAR and QUICK about tallying their points. I really don't see what your problem is here. >How do you measure or quantify "flow," "grace," "humor" and flat out > love of what you are doing? Art and beauty are very different from an > objective agreement on the point value of a kick, You tell the judges what to reward a point for, and they do it. It really doesn't seem that hard to me. The list of things that qualify for APPs is modifyable, so if we missed something, or something new comes around, we can always add it. > A computer can never measure that adequately and > I hope it never will. I am not a proponent of the Automatronic method proposed by Cameron, it is a neat concept, but like Kerning in the typesetting world, it will still fall flat on the human error side, as bi-peds must be entering the data. Lets be clear, I am not saying that we should rely on the computer more than we already do to compute the data entered by the bi-peds... What I am saying is that it can be done just as accurately, with half the number of judges and TEN TIMES FASTER!!!! > I know ya'll are trying to improve the scoring > system and the sport and its incredibly heartening to see so many dedicated > footbaggers but don't struggle too much with something that you are supposed > to feel and not measure. So what you are saying is: "Don't bother with change, as we (the IFC) will resist change of any kind! The system is good enough, just deal with it" Nice sentiment, but none-the-less, presentation/style still needs to be quantified. We (I) still "feel" the "need" to "Measure". >From the perspective that I have, the "single-most broken" part of the existing system is Presentation. (With the xception this year of the "uncapped" caps, but that is another story). It relies on outdated vaguarities, and applies mysterious points in mystical and UNTRACKABLE ways. This seems like an amicable "fix", and a long-term one at that. The APPs concept is so complete, that it could even be used to judge a round of just "style", with an add cap of 150 (not even a remotely ambitious ADD score for a pro) in 2 minutes (but that is another event). Add the ADDs to the APPs for your total. On that subject, having a first round "Style", second round "Shred" and third round "Combined" would be a neat event if it was an invitational and there was a specific number of competitors that were participating, and there were no elimination rounds... but are you going to eliminate the best shredder in the world because he /she placed low on the first round "Style"? It would be an elimination nightmare, having 50 people in the first two rounds. (unless maybe it went really, really fast like Shred Contest did at Vancouver2000Worlds.). Again, that is best left for another thread. For those of you shredders who complain about the rate of change being too slow (in freestyle scoring, not level of play), at IFC meetings it is futile to discuss freestyle, as it seems that the participants are by-and-large net players, and only serve to throw monkey wrenches into the concept of change for freestyle (the consensus seems to be that it's OK as-is, with minor tweaks). It seems that we are lucky to discuss freestyle for all of 11 minutes, in a mad rush to adjourn the meetings. Sure the problem is that we haven't had any concrete proposals recently, but we will for next year, that's darn tootin'. Freestyle is changing. Difficulty is through the roof, and we know what makes good presentation, we need to quantify it. Any other suggestions? See ya! Scott Davidson enlightener@footbag.org _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 21 04:07:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA24994 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 04:07:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pseudo (c517473-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.20.24.118]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id e8KJs1J17046 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:54:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001501c0233c$d4e10320$0200a8c0@pseudo> From: "Ryan Mulroney" To: References: <39C5930A.B760D677@footbag.org> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Overrated Adds Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:56:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Daryl Genz wrote: > Hey All, > > I haven't posted to this list in a long time, but > so long as we're saying the clipper add is > maybe little bit overrated, I'd just like to > say that I think the *symposium* add needs a > little further examination... Why is it that the > system rewards you for taking one less step? Because that extra step is a crutch. Ryan From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 21 04:07:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA25006 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 04:07:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Tom Kotsakos Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02032 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:12:38 -0700 Received: from Honycherub@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id z.7e.a81f830 (3937) for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7e.a81f830.26fa7416@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:12:06 EDT Subject: [freestyle] 4 to 5 dexes To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Just wondering if anyone is devising a plan for any other 4 dex moves, or maybe even a 5 dexer! I know no one has hit them, or else we all would have heard about them. I'm just looking for your guys' ideas, anything you guys think is currently possible. So unless you're waiting to unleash the fury of your move when you finally hit it, let us know what's up. Tom Kotsakos CIC From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 21 04:08:17 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA25017 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 04:08:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Evan Edmondson Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04517 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:11:24 -0700 Received: from ThisBeEvan@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id z.ca.a6576a9 (4403) for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:10:49 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Adds To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 118 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org All right, to me it seems that the majority of freestylers don't like adds. Then why do we have them? You will probably say competition reasons. I will say let the judges judge then they can give a 1-10 on the difficulty part or something, in place of adds. Just an idea. -Evan Edmondson P. S. Steve, I ran spell check, so everything should be cool with you. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 21 04:08:40 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA25028 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 04:08:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1303.mail.yahoo.com (web1303.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.153]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA05921 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:39:52 -0700 Received: (qmail 5681 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Sep 2000 21:39:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20000920213952.5680.qmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.23.255.114] by web1303.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:39:52 PDT Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:39:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Reply-To: janejones2000@yahoo.com Subject: [freestyle] Freestyle Routine Article To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey hey, I was searching for articles on choreographed routines and music and found this article that I find totally relevant to freestyle footbag routines today. http://www.freestyledisc.org/forum/dec97/rsilvey.htm here's a snip: --------------------snip-------------------- My biggest concerns and where I think fundamental change must happen start with presentation and I think it is very simple. Spontaneous/Random = Amateur-Fun Jam Choreography/Rehearsed = Professional-Tournament As long as we continue to ignore this premise we will stagnate. Can you imagine a skater or gymnast performing spontaneous moves with random music and having any chance against a well choreographed routine? I don't think so. We have made presentation a non-category and tricked ourselves into thinking it is has something to do with artistic impression. We need to reward the routine over the jam. We should have categories like (these are just off the top of my head): ---------------end of snip------------------------- Although it's regarding freestyle disc, I think you will find that you can read it as if they were talking about freestyle footbag today (and this was written in '97). Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 21 04:09:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA25051 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 04:09:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from sfofw1.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.36]) by sfo.jsishipping.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-64750U500L500S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:26:47 -0700 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:23:05 -0700 Message-ID: <01C02338.33B64D60.ewulff@jsishipping.com> In-Reply-To: From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: Re: [freestyle] paradox in spins, was computerized Scoring(an . . Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:23:02 -0700 Organization: JSI SHIPPING X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Helloooo.... Cameron wrote... >Why make it difficult to keep the move list up to date, It just decreases >the usefulness of the resources Steve and Derric have worked so hard to >provide. Oh sheesh... That's not at all what this is about... >Sounds like consensus by plurality. Oh my... yes... by "plurality" :) >I heard somewhere that the >footbag.org website belongs to the players. of course... >Consensus seems to be a logical >way to keep the movelist up to date with what the players are thinking. Consensus of a few folks on the list? perhaps? >It is after all a resource for the players right ? yes... of course... But their is nothing official about it. That is all I'm saying. Derric feels that a majority support a certain move name or add concept so he puts it on fw.(or Steve) Great!... doesn't make it official... just makes it on fw. thx Eric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 21 05:07:15 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA25227 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 05:07:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from inetsrv.Callplus.co.nz (mail.callplus.co.nz [202.180.64.194]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20477 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:11:08 -0700 Received: by INETSRV with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:10:43 +1200 Message-ID: <48A772923645D411B54100D0B765CC2134B3C1@INETSRV> In-Reply-To: From: Adrian Dick To: "'Evan Edmondson'" , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Adds Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:10:40 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Evan Said: > All right, to me it seems that the majority of freestylers > don't like adds. I say: The first time I saw footbag being played was in 1995. It was a grainy online video of Rippin that took 9 hours to download. Armed with that video and a downloaded list of about 40 moves and descriptions on how to hit them (pre Jobs notation) Myself and Damian stayed up all night playing the 20 second video over and over and over learning what each trick was, how it was awarded its adds, how the motion went, how it was linked etc. After that night I had a very good understanding of the add system, and could work out what most tricks are worth. Nowdays when I watch people shred I subconsciously count the number of contacts and adds in each string. When the total adds, contacts, or add ratio is higher than their usual I compliment them on their combo. I understand that adds don't cover every tricks difficulty. Anyone who has been playing footbag at a guiltless level for a long time knows how many adds all their tricks are worth. Everyone remembers their first 4 add trick. Hey, it was probably a bail 4 add trick like Da Da Curve or Symposium Butterfly...did you get arrested? No. Did it hype you up and make you wanna play more footbag? Yes. My name is Adrian and I like adds. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 22 06:28:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA27550 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 06:28:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21666 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:51:12 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.21.169.241]) by lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000921045111.BVZV25633.lh2.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:51:12 -0700 Message-ID: <39C9951D.DC48A394@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 23:57:01 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] judging stuff - UNIQUE MOVES Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all. There has been a lot of talk about new judging systems, the validity of adds, etc... I have seen many different judging proposals. And all of them involved the number of unique moves. So, to set the record straight, I don't care about assigning adds or any other measure of difficulty. All I care about is determining the components that makes a move unique. This is the purpose of the move list on http://footbag.org/freestyle Sure, the move list is sorted by adds, but don't let that confuse you. It could be sorted by madds or radds or anything else. The move list is a library of all unique moves (plus handy descriptions, helpful hints and video demonstrations). This library is needed to count the number of unique moves in any routine. As far as I know, every proposed scoring system requires the number of unique moves. If everyone is familiar with the move list and the concepts behind it, we can have fair judging anywhere in the world. Not bad, huh? Once we have a list of unique moves, then we can worry about rating the difficulty of the individual tricks. I think that Scott has a nice system set up. I would like to see it in practice. I would also like to see Cameron's log scoring system. Good ideas from everyone. The only problem is that the "big names" don't seem to see the importance of determining what makes a move UNIQUE. When I ask about pdx symp rev whirl, I'm not asking if it is a 5 add move. I'm asking a few things: 1) can butterfly be symposium? 2) is reverse whirl unique from butterfly? 3) can reverse whirl be symposium? 4) can reverse whirl be paradox? After Ryan's fucking post (sorry about the sarcasm), I now know that he feels that reverse whirl is the same as a butterfly. So, pdx rev whirl would be an opposite side butterfly. And, I also know that he feels that symposium butterfly is weak. Unique? I'm not sure he answered that one... If anyone cares to answer the four questions above, please do. If you want to comment personally about anything I've said, please do so via one-on-one email with me. And, if you want to talk about changes to the add system, start a new thread. Cool? -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 22 06:27:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA27545 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 06:27:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21075 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:29:54 -0700 Received: from billy ([63.199.201.120]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G1700IP6Z0ZTL@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:27:12 -0700 From: Sam Colclough Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gyro Stepping Set, does it have a name? To: Chad Devlahovich , Footbag_Enlightener@excite.com Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <001501c02384$3724fcc0$9b66fea9@billy> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 References: <93.c31154.26f9c1a5@aol.com> X-Priority: 3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org From: "Chad Devlahovich" > Scott and others, > > gyro ripwalk(gyro stepping opp. butterfly) = BIGWALK ??? Chad, so shy. What he means is BIGWALK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! From owner-freestyl