From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 5 22:20:50 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28120 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:20:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from user ([24.69.36.80]) by mail2.rdc2.bc.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20001229083325.TBFD21777.mail2.rdc2.bc.home.com@user> for ; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 00:33:25 -0800 Message-ID: <004401c07172$76c66da0$50244518@gvsa1.bc.wave.home.com> From: "Allan Haggett" To: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] A call to video makers Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 00:36:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andrew, Matt and anyone who cares :) Somone correct me if I'm waaay wrong, but DVD authoring is still *far* too expensive to be available for the limited production atmosphere of Footbag videos. The one DVD-RAM drive that I just priced from Panasonic was $799 with the disc's themselves clocking in at $40 a pop. Apparently their is also issue with the MPEG-2 DVD format and copyright protection etc... SO, unless someone gets in with a fairly big-time production house that can produce DVD's in an economic fashion(or I win the lotto), I can't see anyone coming out with a DVD based Footbag Production anytime soon as you'd have to charge $70-80/copy to make any money back. MPEG-1(or a similar codec), CD based production has already been done though and is as cheap(though more time consuming) than producing VHS, AS WELL as accomplishing the "open standard" which Andrew desires. The catch there however is in the length of the production. Get anywhere even close to DVD quality with MPEG-1 and your limited to under an hour(even less, I believe) of shred on a CD :( The technology is changing so fast though that all that could change within months, so keep your hopes up!! Allan KE Haggett PS Alex Zerbe mentioned something about the European Masters production being available on DVD on his listing for the Seattle T-Giving day Jam?? Is this fact or Alex's imagination? > "Andrew McCargar" wrote: > > >Since a lot of you are now editing digitally anyway and the technology > >is not nearly as expensive as it was, I would encourage you to offer > >videos on CD or (preferably) DVD. > > > > DVD, That is the best damn idea I have heard on this list in a while. I > don't know how difficult it is to produce though. I, for one, would > purchase every piece of footage produced on DVD. Cheers to Andrew. > Later > Ian From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 5 22:21:34 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28125 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:21:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f209.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.209]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29291 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 05:59:55 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 05:59:19 -0800 Received: from 211.216.216.95 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:59:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [211.216.216.95] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Laver help Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:59:18 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Dec 2000 13:59:19.0227 (UTC) FILETIME=[89D0B8B0:01C0719F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >On Sat, 23 Dec 2000, Erik Engeberg wrote: > > Does anyone out there have troubles with their pixie sets with > > lavers on... What can be done to help this problem? Brad Kaplan replied: >Cut out the toe box. Just take a scissor and cut out the first two >eyelets. And how do I do that you ask? Way back when dinosaurs ruled the earth and I was just learning HTML I made a illustrated guide on how to do just that. Take a look at: http://members.nbci.com/nemesisds/freestyle/shoes.html Hopefully soon, after I take care of some other things and pick up a new camera, I'm planning on registering my own domain and rehauling my freestyle pages. Till then I hope this helps and suggestions are welcome. btw, the other sollution is just to make better shoes than the lavers. I've kicked in home made shoes for the last year, but then again I suck at footbag. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 5 22:22:01 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28141 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:22:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com (bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com [205.145.1.251]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29765 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 06:26:06 -0800 Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 09:26:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88477E31@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Riefer, Robert" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] A call to video makers Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 09:26:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Dubman [mailto:mufreestyle@hotmail.com] > I, for one, would > purchase every piece of footage produced on DVD. Cheers to Andrew. > Later > Ian > And a BIG BIG BIG 'cheers' to all the video makers out there! :-) Bob R. Philly Footworks From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 5 22:22:31 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28154 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:22:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07055; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:39:04 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G6C02O01MSXYG@clem.mscd.edu>; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:38:57 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:38:57 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] a Worlds 2001 question In-reply-to: To: Steve Goldberg Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Somehow I'm not surprised by YOUR answer Steve. However, if you would care to expand a little more as to why it's such a bad idea I'd love to read it. That way I wouldn't feel like you were just making fun of me for the getting married part. :( Brad On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, Steve Goldberg wrote: > Hah hah hah hah hah. Good one, Brad. :-) > > Steve > > At 2:22 PM -0700 12/26/00, Brad Kaplan wrote: > > I have never hosted a tournament and I would love to attempt Worlds > >but this summer would be bad because I'm getting married, but here's a > >question I just have to ask of tournament directors. > > Is it that much harder to host worlds than any of the other > >tournaments. I know it's a bigger tournament which means more people, > >space, hotels, time and staff. Is it too big of a leap to piggy back > >Worlds onto another tournament? With all the other tournaments going on > >this summer isn't there one that might pick up worlds instead or in > >conjunction with their own tournament. Something like "The Vancouver Open > >hosts Worlds 2001" or Philly Open or Westerns or Southerns or So Cal or > >something. > > Again I know nothing about running a tourney, but is it a possibilty > >since no one else has picked up the torch? > > > > Here's hoping, > > Brad > From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 5 22:22:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28177 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:22:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f109.hotmail.com [216.32.181.109]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12628 for ; Mon, 1 Jan 2001 20:23:37 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Jan 2001 20:23:00 -0800 Received: from 142.59.214.246 by lw2fd.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 02 Jan 2001 04:23:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [142.59.214.246] From: "Greg Buzon" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] A call to video makers Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 04:23:00 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jan 2001 04:23:00.0625 (UTC) FILETIME=[B103C810:01C07473] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org DVD would be sweet but damn expensive to produce. I dont think burners are readily availible (some can be purchased for multiple thousands of dollars). And if you want to sell/trade/play DVD's in multiple countries that wouldnt work to well because there are different regions for each DVD (kinda like playstation games. You can only play DVD's from north america in players from north america. Its an anti piracy thing). But man it would be sweet. Greg B. ps:Anyone on the list from/in Edmonton Alberta. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 5 22:24:20 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28204 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:24:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14289 for ; Mon, 1 Jan 2001 21:25:52 -0800 Received: from timothym (ip102.chicago32.il.pub-ip.psi.net [38.33.75.102]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA25114 for ; Mon, 1 Jan 2001 21:25:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000c01c0747c$39796e40$664b2126@timothym> From: "Robert Martin" To: Subject: [freestyle] Freestyle Posters Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 23:23:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok, I was watching "Bust Out Now" today, and I saw this poster on the wall that said, " The Empire Shreds Phat", and I thought it was dope. Is there anyway of anyone outside of BAP to get such a poster? Thanks, Bob From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 5 22:24:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28215 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:24:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (qmail 21709 invoked by uid 0); 2 Jan 2001 20:01:24 -0000 Received: from blndi5-212-144-128-044.arcor-ip.net (HELO quarktasche) (212.144.128.44) by mail.gmx.net (mail08) with SMTP; 2 Jan 2001 20:01:24 -0000 Message-ID: <007901c074f6$874692e0$8e8090d4@quarktasche> From: "Matthias Lino Schmidt" To: Subject: [freestyle] poetry Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 20:59:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The bag in the air I'm using my flair Dexin' my leg Duckin' the bag Shredding around on the heliport No better sport I've ever found! Happy New Year y'all! From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 5 22:25:18 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28230 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:25:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22463 for ; Tue, 2 Jan 2001 22:09:33 -0800 Received: from earthink.net (1Cust249.tnt85.chi5.da.uu.net [63.36.160.249]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20267; Tue, 2 Jan 2001 22:09:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3A52C1F3.766A4360@earthink.net> Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 00:08:51 -0600 From: Tim Werner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Freestyle@footbag.org CC: Cloudriz@yahoo.com Subject: [freestyle] Chicago Millennium footbag jam (it's vigorous, but it's controlled) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sappenin' stylas, the time has come for me to speak of the Chicago Millennium jam. Phatness was abound the entire time, and Dan Klokow and James Risden got alot of footage which should be sweet. Some highlights that stick out in my mind are.... Eric Reile sealing flog and pixie barrage, James Risden busting "this"(I'll let him explain it) and dolemite, Zeke Ibardaloza with toe gyro DLO, Jon Nagela with fairy torque, Scott Davidson hitting reverse swirling symp whirl and Matt Kain hitting shooting butterfly > paradox blender. of course, there were ALOT of SICK runs being busted by Sean Wingert, Matt Kain (sp?), and James Risden (making the phatest of the phat look like child's play.) well, that should do it for now, later. -TW, CIC. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 5 22:26:06 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28253 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:26:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web3002.mail.yahoo.com (web3002.mail.yahoo.com [204.71.202.165]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA00742 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 05:46:05 -0800 Received: (qmail 255 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jan 2001 00:19:17 -0000 Message-ID: <20010104001917.254.qmail@web3002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.78.157.15] by web3002.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 03 Jan 2001 16:19:17 PST Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 16:19:17 -0800 (PST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?pip=20fulstow?= Subject: [freestyle] New Zealand 2001 annual Championships To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi there, fellow kickers... This is the first time I have ever posted into this list, yet I read it nearly every day. Just a wee note to say that New Zealand is hosting it's 2nd annual championships this coming weekend. I'm looking forward to kicking with the best(both in the world and in New Zealand). I can only hope more females are going to be entering this years...last years was a bit of a joke...being only 4 of us. First shred tomorrow..... Woooo-hooooo!!!!!! Go the JUICE!!! >From Pip, NZ From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 5 22:26:31 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28268 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:26:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02972 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 07:00:12 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G6L06901R22PB@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 03 Jan 2001 12:49:14 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 12:49:14 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] some records? In-reply-to: <3A52B5BD.EF844D5@earthink.net> To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > P.S. The longest guiltless string was probably the osis record set by GF > Smoothie (306) Okay, I know there are huge single trick records and after I sent the original post I was sure I would get that response so let me clarify. I was wondering about a guiltless string that may have happened in a regular old shred circle one day where it was someones turn and they just happened to bust out some super sick combination of guiltless tricks varifying from different 3's 4's and maybe even a 5 or two. So who has it? Who amongst ya'll has hit 60 or 70 guiltless tricks in a single run? NOT consisting of only 3's. I know Daryl has gone well into the 80's with only 3's, and that rocks, but I'm talking about ALL OUT NO HOLDS BARRED SHRED. Take your time answering. Go out and kick and make a record, then come back and share. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 5 22:29:06 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28324 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:29:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17445 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 16:03:30 -0800 Received: from wam.umd.edu (207-172-53-169.s169.tnt4.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.53.169]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03289 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:03:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A550F49.83E98545@wam.umd.edu> Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:04:01 -0500 From: Chris Whong Reply-To: cwhong@wam.umd.edu Organization: University of Maryland X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Kickin' in Cancun, Spring Break 2001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, I just wanted to put the word out that I (a state-class footbagger) will be going to Cancun, Mexico for Spring Break, the week of March 18-24, 2000. Apparently there are 5 clubs listed down there, but I couldn't figure out if any of them are located anywhere near Cancun. If anyone else happens to be going, contact me, and we can make plans to meet up. I made a cool animated gif of a rotating Laver, you can check it out at Footbag Maryland's web site. Also, you have my permission to gank it, and put it on your own web site, as long as you make it a link to Footbag Maryland. -Chris Whong (like the new move) -- "It smelled like Loudog inside the van..." |------------------------------ Christopher M. Whong e-mail: cwhong@wam.umd.edu Instant Messenger: Louiedog98 |------------------------------ Footbag Maryland http://www.wam.umd.edu/~cwhong/footbag From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 5 22:30:37 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28398 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:30:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com (bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com [205.145.1.251]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03457 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 07:17:40 -0800 Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 12:31:10 -0500 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88477E6C@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Riefer, Robert" To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Chilly Philly wrap up Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 12:31:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all- Despite a ton of snow (and therefore a much smaller turnout) the Chilly Philly was a blast. We got together with Kenny early in the day and watched some vintage shred video. It's definitely cool to see where this crazy sport began. We also watched Eli's new shred video (the name of which escapes me right now)... The video is awesome -- great production, great footage.. everything. Anyhow, so the biggest names that were able to make it to the jam were Eric Wulff and Carol, Sunil, and Kenny. Eric was going nuts with all sort of stepping ducking moves and really hard flyers mixed in effortlessly. Sunil was Sunil. Triage?! I'd never seen that one live before. Wow. Carol is as smooth as ever. And Kenny... HE HIT... Well... read his below email to understand what he hit. I saw it too. Super clean. He'll hit it again, and I won't miss getting it on video!!! Up and comer Scott "Animal" Bevier proved that he can stand in with the likes of those mentioned above. Very smooth style all while cramming in really difficult combos. He'll be popping up on shred vids in the near future. Tom Moore continues to be an asset to Philadelphia footbag. I saw him hit paradox legbeater, atom smasher, ripwalks and blurs, and all sorts of spinning stuff. He's gonna be sick! Vince Bradley was also playing well -- glad to have you back in the freestyle scene Vince!! There were also some newer players in attendance. I think everyone picked up a few new tricks and got their fill of seeing some BAPers go nuts for at least a little while. To everyone that came... THANKS! Hope all the other jams were just as sweet (and less snow covered!) Take care, talk soon, and Happy New Year! Bob Riefer Philly Footworks -----Original Message----- From: KenShults@aol.com [mailto:KenShults@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 12:14 PM To: RoRiefer@ikon.com Subject: Re: X-Mas Jam The Sauce The Big Apple was created and hit after about 6 tries by me in 1992 at the American Athletic Games in Central Park, NYC, hence the name. I believe that others in the circle at the time who might recall the event were Rick Reese, Scott Davidson and Dennis Ross. The Big Apple Sauce was conceived over breakfast at the 1994 Michigan Christmas Jam. Greg Nelson asked about some type of trick that gave me the idea for the Sauce. At the session that day I actually came fairly close to hitting it a few times. I continued to try to hit this trick every now and then over the next six years. I would usually only try it at tournaments or organized shred sessions because I wanted to be sure to get on film if I ever hit it. While I came close on a lot of attempts and even made contact a few times, I never truly hit one. This last summer at Worlds in Vancouver BC was the most recent public attempts at the Sauce. I wanted Ryan to give it a try to see if he could hit it. I figured that if it was hittable, he could do it. He needed a demo to work from so I joined the circle for and tried about 15 minutes worth of attempts to no avail. Ryan made a couple of unsuccessful attempts at it. Since Worlds I discovered that backside symposium blur was a pretty easy trick for me. I then found that I could hit spinning backside symposium blur. While not easy it appears to be "dialable" given how easy it has been when I actually hit it. I had been trying this trick at the Philly Chilly fairly frequently. After a near miss, I mentioned to Eric Wulff that by merely replacing the toe catch with an osis I would have the Sauce. On the next pass I tried what was planned to be another spinning backside symposium blur attempt. The set was too deep to get a toe on it so I instinctively bailed to an osis which came up perfectly about chest high in front of me. In hindsight I wish I had the wherewithal to go straight into something but just as the bag was coming up the realization hit me. I had just hit the Sauce. All I managed out of it was three or four inside kicks and a hand catch followed by a few minutes of stunned confirm! ation with witnesses that it had actually happened. Eric and Sunil both confirmed it was real. Unfortunately, none of the cameras onsite were running at the time. The Sauce is a spinning backside symposium blurry torque. I don't do Jobs notation but here's how it breaks down. Left clipper set spin away from set planting left foot (hence this is not a gyro trick) after spin jump off left foot while doing inside out dex with right leg followed by symposium inside out with left leg. bring right foot back under for osis to finish. Kenny From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 10 19:29:57 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11984 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:29:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA30798 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 23:06:08 -0800 Received: (qmail 6736 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jan 2001 07:05:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20010106070558.6735.qmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [172.163.254.211] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 05 Jan 2001 23:05:58 PST Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 23:05:58 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chicago Millennium footbag jam (it's vigorous, but it's controlled) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Tim Werner wrote: > James Risden busting "this"(I'll let him explain it) > and dolemite Ok ok. "This" is really hard to explain. It's a symposium tomohawk hit with your hands on your head, hooping the bag up through one arm and back down through the other. It's a funky move. Looks odd. Check it out. http://members.xoom.com/shreddined/this.mpg I would like to add that the Midwest New Years jam was DOPE! Scott Davidson, Sean Wingert, and Matt Kain are sickingly ill! Scott was sealing reverse swirly symposium whirl all over the place. OHHHH SOO DOOOPE! I have soooo much footage that I'm converting to mpg. I'll post again when it's ready. Bye, James Risden P.S. Propz go to god for hitting the first ever 8ADD move, "BIG APPLE SAUCE". From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 10 19:29:22 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11979 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:29:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from admin.cgocable.net (admin.cgocable.net [24.226.1.21]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30717 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 23:04:40 -0800 Received: from [24.150.4.64] (d150-4-64.home.cgocable.net [24.150.4.64]) by admin.cgocable.net (8.10.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f0675j527780 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2001 02:05:46 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.2509 Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 02:02:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] A call to video makers From: Neil Bearse To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004401c07172$76c66da0$50244518@gvsa1.bc.wave.home.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id XAA28577 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On 12/29/00 3:36 AM, "Allan Haggett" wrote: > Andrew, Matt and anyone who cares :) > > Somone correct me if I'm waaay wrong, but DVD authoring is still *far* too > expensive to be available for the limited production atmosphere of Footbag > videos. .... Just read about this stuff today... DVD-R (writing DVD's that will play on a DVD player... Different from DVD-RAM, which are mainly for saving data) will be available in PC's this coming year. Compaq will be releasing a computer with this technology and there are also rumours that Apple Computer will also be including them with their new PowerMacs (props to Eli for representing with an iMAC :) ) . This technology is coming fast.. I cant wait for the day when I can watch shred footage with digital sound and picture, on a flatscreen plasma TV... While my robotic dog fetches me drinks and cleans the house... I donšt even wanna think about the sick moves that will be being busted on the screen... (quintuple around the worlds :) ) Anywayz... Just thought I'd share the info since the subject was being discussed - Neil From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 10 19:30:23 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11991 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:30:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f107.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.107]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA00747 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2001 00:47:24 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Jan 2001 00:46:48 -0800 Received: from 211.216.216.95 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 06 Jan 2001 08:46:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [211.216.216.95] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chilly Philly wrap up Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 08:46:48 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jan 2001 08:46:48.0457 (UTC) FILETIME=[34CA4790:01C077BD] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >The Sauce is a spinning backside symposium blurry torque. The words that exited my mouth as I read that probably aren't fit for print. I saw Kenny try "the sauce" about 97' back in the Skool House. I think I'd just hit my first blizzard that night and didn't have bloody clue what he'd just done. All I can say is huge huge huge props. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 10 19:30:57 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12000 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:30:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from falcon.continet.com (ns1.continet.com [206.58.168.254]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14596 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:30:04 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME ([206.58.32.21]) by falcon.continet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-60955U4500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:34:42 -0800 X-Sender: freefloe@continet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Dennis Ross Subject: [freestyle] A worlds 2001 question Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:34:42 -0800 Message-ID: <20010106183442140.AAA465@falcon.continet.com@LOCALNAME> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Regarding Brad's question "Is it that much harder to host worlds than any of the other tournaments?"...ABSOLUTELY YES!! I've competed in 9 World Championships and have hosted tournaments from small to large for 10 years, but have never wanted to take on Worlds. Anyone who's been to both Worlds and a weekend tournament can attest to the difference. It takes an entire week to get in all the events at Worlds and the schedule is packed...ask anyone who has done overall and note that no one did all the events at 2000 Worlds. There are 9 different events one can enter and some of those have more than one category (ie intermediate, women's, open). Without significantly decreasing the number of competitors and/or events it would be impossible. There have been discussions in the past about creating separate Worlds for freestyle, net, and golf/consecutives (or combining golf and consecs with one of the others) this, in my opinion is worth exploring. I would consider going to both (and golf too). Anyone who has ever tried to compete in freestyle and net events at Worlds knows that it is not possible to freestyle to your ability with "net legs." Net works after freestyle but freestyle doesn't work after playing net for days. I think it would be cool to have Net Championships with freestyle demos from the Freestyle World Championships and possibly golf demos or a 9-hole shorter course spectators could try. And then at Freestyle Championships have net demos by that year's net Champs. It would still be difficult (maybe impossible) to get all the net events done in 3 days with the number of events right now. SEmi-finals and Finals are usually done Sat and Sun with all the pool/bracket play occuring beforehand. Just a thought. What do others think? Also, if anyone at WFA is out there...what would it take for your organization/club to host Worlds again? Peace and Happy New Year, Becca English-Ross At 02:38 PM 12/29/00 -0700 Brad Kaplan wrote: > Somehow I'm not surprised by YOUR answer Steve. However, if you >would care to expand a little more as to why it's such a bad idea I'd love >to read it. That way I wouldn't feel like you were just making fun of me >for the getting married part. :( >On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, Steve Goldberg wrote: >> Hah hah hah hah hah. Good one, Brad. :-) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 10 19:31:39 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12009 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:31:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24309 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2001 17:53:57 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G6R08N01RXJ1I@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2001 18:53:44 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 18:53:43 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle Posters In-reply-to: <000c01c0747c$39796e40$664b2126@timothym> To: Robert Martin Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 1 Jan 2001, Robert Martin wrote: > Ok, I was watching "Bust Out Now" today, and I saw this poster on the wall > that said, " The Empire Shreds Phat", and I thought it was dope. Is there > anyway of anyone outside of BAP to get such a poster? If memory serves, that slogan was made up by Eli Piltz and he had made some t-shirts of it, but I didn't know about the posters. Anyway he'd know how to get the posters I'm sure... if they still exist. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 10 19:32:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12030 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:32:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.119]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12826 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 09:10:19 -0800 Received: from storefull-618.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-618.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.59]) by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AD631B58; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 09:10:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by storefull-618.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id JAA13393; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 09:10:03 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUAp+sY0JjtQXomCstnDdEMA/QePpECFQCfvBgGdGeNEMv7iYs04u2IY0uHVw== From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 12:10:02 -0500 (EST) To: kaplanb@mscd.edu (Brad Kaplan) Cc: mcraig@provide.net (matt craig), freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox Reverse Whirl vs. Butterfly Message-ID: <21307-3A58A2EA-622@storefull-618.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Brad Kaplan 's message of Tue, 26 Dec 2000 13:47:41 -0700 (MST) Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Back on Dec. 26th Brad wrote, >Barfly's 4 and it's ALOT harder than >reverse whirl but not worth 5. There is >absolutely NO paradox feel to reverse >whirl, no EXTRA pivot or dex or anything >of the sort that would make it paradox. Says who? Not that I am fussing or caring or anything, that just sounds like personal opinion to me. I think Barfly is a lot EASIER than pdx rev whirl. I've been hitting barfly for 5 or 6 years, and just started hitting pdx rev whirl. When I see or DO it, I think "wow, that was fresh and cool". Just personal opinion. Oh yeah, where's Worlds? Smoothie From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 10 19:32:50 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12040 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:32:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail2.rdc2.bc.home.com (mail2.rdc2.bc.home.com [24.2.10.85]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21131 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 14:23:29 -0800 Received: from johnlopes ([24.67.226.156]) by mail2.rdc2.bc.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010107222317.WKQY21777.mail2.rdc2.bc.home.com@johnlopes> for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 14:23:17 -0800 Message-ID: <000701c078f9$4d8dc3a0$9ce24318@kldt1.bc.wave.home.com> From: "Jeff Lopes" To: Subject: [freestyle] Guiltless Training Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 14:29:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, I was just curious about any drills people have for guiltless training. I know practising lots of paradox mirage's, osis', and butterfly's are huge, but what kind of linkage drills should I do? Ive been doing butterfly>osis>paradox mirage>repeat both sides a lot, and I find that is helping, but I was just wondering if anyone else has any idea's. Thanks. Jeff Lopes From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 10 19:33:19 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12054 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:33:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22125 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:35:36 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G6U00O01ZQV06@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2001 12:35:19 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 12:35:18 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox Reverse Whirl vs. Butterfly In-reply-to: <21307-3A58A2EA-622@storefull-618.iap.bryant.webtv.net> To: Greg Nelson Cc: matt craig , freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Greg Nelson wrote: > I've been hitting barfly for 5 or 6 years, and just started > hitting pdx rev whirl. When I see or DO it, I think "wow, that was fresh > and cool". Just personal opinion. "Fresh and cool", yes, paradox and worth 4 adds (in comps), NO. I've seen people whose barfly style is kind of like a double op reverse whirl, where the first dex is like a butterfly and the second is like a reverse whirl, and it's no more paradox that way than it is if there's only one dex. When I was learning Barfly I was hitting it this way. Your are right in that it is my "opinion" that op reverse whirl is MUCH easier than Barfly and here's how I came to that conclusion on a personal level. I started hitting barfly a little less than a year ago, as a regular trick anyway. It took me hours of skooling to get it that way. I started hitting op reverse whirl this last summer and, I shit you not, it took 10 minutes before I was already hitting it symposium. Now maybe it came easier because I was already hitting barfly at that point. So if it came easier than Barfly and it had only one dex and it was the SAME move, less one dex, then there is something really wrong here. Either Barfly is also missing the paradox which people are thinking belongs in op reverse whirl OR (and I think this is more correct) there is NO PARADOX element to be had in op reverse whirl. Once again I submit, as Greg said, the move is still "fresh and cool" and this is all my opinion. I love this game, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 10 19:36:15 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12103 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:36:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from magician (vpop-51.nccn.net [209.79.223.51]) by nccn6.nccn.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/*tdw* 2000-03-16a * No UCE! *-) with SMTP id LAA04852 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:43:42 -0800 Message-ID: <005001c079aa$aeef6660$33df4fd1@magician> From: "Lon Smith" To: Subject: [freestyle] Move's Names Claim to Fame Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:38:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yello , It's Lon Check it, Blurry barfly Burriest Blurry butterfly stall Ripwalk Blurry clipper Curbwalk Pixie paradon Dimmiest Pixie other butterfly stall Dimwalk Pixie other clipper stall Dimdown Stepping down doubble down Burrier Stepping Butterfly stall Sidewalk Stepping clipper stall Stepdown Pixie down doubble DoubbleParker Pixie same butterfly stall Parkwalk Pixie same clipper stall Parkdown Reverse mirage from clipper Bubba Paradox Reverse mirage Buddy Stepping Legover Mixer Stepping Reverse mirage Schmoe Double over flying clipper kick Flutterby Paradon flying clipper kick Flutterby Barfly flying clipper kick Barflyer and I think reverse whirl set should be called blundering Whirling Gyro Whirl Blistering Whirl Reverse Whirling Gyro Whirl Blundering Whirl I don't know what the other move names there are for these moves but these are the best names for them. I'll be adding more names which will be much more open to suggestion, but I'm already using these names. I hope everyone who doesn't want these names familiarized speak up now or forever use these names!! Peace Out the Sloth From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 10 19:36:41 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12112 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:36:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from user ([24.69.36.80]) by mail2.rdc2.bc.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010108205935.ENPT21777.mail2.rdc2.bc.home.com@user> for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:59:35 -0800 Message-ID: <000701c079b6$59254f40$50244518@gvsa1.bc.wave.home.com> From: "Allan Haggett" To: Subject: [freestyle] Ryan's Finals routine & Ripwalk record Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 13:02:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org First of all, Happy New Year to all!! I am happy to announce that I have completed capturing, editing and compressing Ryan Mulroney's World's 2000 Finals routine for everyone's viewing pleasure. Before you get too excited about seeing this epic, record breaking routine, know that my video camera is a peice of shit and the angle of the shot isn't exactly professional. I was DJ'ing the event and couldn't be on the camera myself, and with a dead(as in not accepting a charge) battery I was forced to shoot from a static location perched above the judges table. It was up so high on this ledge that I couldn't even look through the view finder to see if I had everything framed correctly. Luckily it was framed well enough to not miss anyting, but the angle leaves much to be desired. As well, through compressing to a decent, downloadable size(a miniscule 10megs for 2 and a half minutes of video at 320x240) the quality is quite acceptable for viewing at 320x240, but try to 'fullscreen' it and it becomes rather messy(viewable, but messy). SO, keeping all of this in mind, please don't spam me with negative comments about these issues. I am more than aware of them, but I can only work with what I have, and cannot spend any more time than I already have on this. If you really want to see it high-quality and from a good angle, suppport our video producers and buy a copy of the tapes out there that boast this fantastic routine. Our friend Derric Scalf has promised to make this clip available on www.dallasfootbag.org soon, but in the meantime it is available for download from my site: http://footbag.dnsalias.net/RMulroneyFinals2000.mpg is the direct link to it. This site is being hosted on my home system on a cable connect and as such is rather unreliable, but it should hold up for now. If you have any problems, please be patient and try again after a while.... . I'm running WinBlows98(for now) and I've never really tested what this thing is like with lots of traffic to it, so bear with me :) Derric will have it up on his super-fast, reliable site as soon as he has the time. If problems persist over a day or so, email me and I'll do what I can :) On another note, I am also proud to say that I broke Ryan Mulroney's Ripwalk record last night!! I hit 43 consecutive Ripwalk's on video no less.... check it out... http://footbag.dnsalias.net/43ripwalks.mpg So now the challenge goes out to Ryan(and anyone else for that matter) to break this! (if you haven't already ;) ) I think that's it from me for now, but I'll be back with more goodies soon!! Allan K. Haggett http://footbag.dnsalias.net From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 10 19:37:02 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12122 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:37:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web3006.mail.yahoo.com (web3006.mail.yahoo.com [204.71.202.169]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA09920 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 00:40:28 -0800 Received: (qmail 27270 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Jan 2001 08:40:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20010109084016.27269.qmail@web3006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.78.157.15] by web3006.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 09 Jan 2001 00:40:16 PST Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 00:40:16 -0800 (PST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?pip=20fulstow?= Subject: [freestyle] New Zealands 2001 Champs To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org YYYEEEAAAHHHH It was PHAT!!! Seeing Ryan Mulroney in the flesh, kicking some insanity!!!! Nice work and of course he won the open mens freestyle. Cool to see he compete in the consecutives also...sorry can't remember the score. A massive "CONGRAT'S" to Ratna Dyer for first place in the open women's freestyle...she's only been kicking tricks in the last year, and wrapped it up, even with torn filaments in her quadraceps!!!! I think she desreves a medal for the most progression, out of any of the Girlies in New Zealand, in the shortest space of time. I can't wait to kick with the crew again, So, that's it from me... the New Zealand update brought to you by pipisurfpunk!!!!!! From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 10 19:47:37 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12349 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:47:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from magician (vpop-51.nccn.net [209.79.223.51]) by nccn6.nccn.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/*tdw* 2000-03-16a * No UCE! *-) with SMTP id LAA04827 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:43:27 -0800 Message-ID: <004d01c079aa$ac1607a0$33df4fd1@magician> From: "Lon Smith" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] some records? Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:34:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hy Shreddors, It's Lon saying that the Regulator has records on all three, Fearless(not quadless)is actually 6 and8/9ths the Superfly came up( the moves were Blurrier blury whirl blury whirl paradox torque symposium paradox whirl mobius superfly the receive props. Tripless is over thirty Guiltless Both Wicked and Regulator as well as others have hit over 100. Adios Fristylos From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 10 20:00:54 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA12445 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:00:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09119 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:05:30 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G6N07101JOUB0@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:05:18 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:05:17 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] ground control to major footbag To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Either the list is REALLY slow or I'm not getting my mail. If it's the former then I hope it's because everyone's out shredding to hard to post. If it's the latter then I respect mister moderators time and effort and I'll be patient for a few more days I guess. Hope everyone's having a great year so far! Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 11 21:01:12 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22638 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:01:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([65.10.4.236]) by mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010111074653.GJQB21827.mail.rdc2.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:46:53 -0800 Message-ID: <3A5D5E5B.F4C041BA@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:18:51 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Ryan's Finals routine & Ripwalk record References: <000701c079b6$59254f40$50244518@gvsa1.bc.wave.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Allan Haggett wrote: > > I am happy to announce that I have completed capturing, editing and > compressing Ryan Mulroney's World's 2000 Finals routine for everyone's > viewing pleasure. Our friend Derric Scalf has promised to make this clip available on > www.dallasfootbag.org soon And it is soon. You can find the clip at http://dallasfootbag.org/multimedia/misc/Misc_Video/RMulroneyFinals2000.mpg This is a great routine. Don't let Allan scare you off with all of that stuff about a bad angle and bad quality. It is worth the download time. Thanks to Allan for putting in the time and effort to get it online. This clip will also be available from footbag.org really soon. So check the galleries there. Every time I dig through those galleries, I find something bad ass that I had forgotten about. Good stuff. And Allan continues by saying: > > On another note, I am also proud to say that I broke Ryan Mulroney's Ripwalk > record last night!! I hit 43 consecutive Ripwalk's on video no less.... > check it out... http://footbag.dnsalias.net/43ripwalks.mpg Hey buddy... that is 44 by my count :) This and several other video verified records will be up on dallasfootbag.org soon. So, if you have some records on video, send them my way. For now, the unofficial, non-video records are listed on http://www.dallasfootbag.org Just click on the records link. Later. -Derric DFC From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 11 21:04:45 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22701 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:04:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f284.hotmail.com [216.32.180.138]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA29649 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:52:46 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:34:30 -0800 Received: from 129.93.213.17 by lw2fd.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 05:34:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.93.213.17] From: "Brian Mckenzie" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Colorado Shred Symposium Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:34:29 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jan 2001 05:34:30.0245 (UTC) FILETIME=[2B8B9950:01C07B90] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I was wondering if there was anyone coming from the East or Midwest going to the Colorado Symposium next month via Interstate 80 (Lincoln) who has an extra seat and would like someone else to split the gas money with. I don't eat much, and I don't know the difference between right and wrong. Please email me personally. Kamikenzie From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 11 21:05:12 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22716 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:05:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from itsa.ucsf.edu (itsa.ucsf.edu [128.218.95.21]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA29885 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 03:00:15 -0800 Received: from localhost (sjani@localhost) by itsa.ucsf.edu (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA49226; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:26:04 -0800 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:26:04 -0800 (PST) From: Sunil Subhash Jani To: James Risden cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS In-Reply-To: <20010106070558.6735.qmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, James Risden wrote: > P.S. Propz go to god for hitting the first ever 8ADD > move, "BIG APPLE SAUCE". Actually if you go by Wulffies x-dex system... which some of us do... then Kenny's Big Apple Sauce is 9 well deserved adds. Rationale: toe blur = 4 adds ( dex, dex, xdex, delay) symposium toe blue = 5 adds (+body) frontside paradox backside symposium toe blur = 6 adds (+paradox) spinning paradox symposium toe blur = 7 adds (+body) now catch that on a toe instead of an osis = 9 ADDS (+body+xbody) REPULSIVE! From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 11 21:05:33 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22727 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:05:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web9007.mail.yahoo.com (web9007.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.128.169]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA32055 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 04:17:11 -0800 Message-ID: <20010111103024.73468.qmail@web9007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [38.233.72.2] by web9007.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:30:24 PST Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:30:24 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Wilson Subject: [freestyle] Colorado Shred Symp II? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Got permission from my better half to take a road trip to Colorado for the tournament in Feb. and was wondering who all is planning to be there? It's a 16 hour drive from Ft. Worth, Tx. so I'm hoping that it's going to be crazy. Later, Mike Hey Brad, it's not your mail. It's just slow around here. ===== Ft. Worth Hackaholics Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 11 21:08:06 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22788 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:08:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dns1.provide.net (root@dns1.provide.net [216.86.64.33]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01801 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 05:43:42 -0800 Received: from provide.net (usr03-045.provide.net [216.86.66.45]) by dns1.provide.net (8.9.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14587; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:42:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A5C618C.50401@provide.net> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:19:50 -0500 From: matt craig User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17 i686; en-US; 0.7) Gecko/20010105 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brad Kaplan CC: Greg Nelson , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox Reverse Whirl vs. Butterfly References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok, so most people are bored with this by now... Brad Kaplan wrote: > On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Greg Nelson wrote: > >> I've been hitting barfly for 5 or 6 years, and just started >> hitting pdx rev whirl. When I see or DO it, I think "wow, that was fresh >> and cool". Just personal opinion. > > "Fresh and cool", yes, paradox and worth 4 adds (in comps), NO. I've "Paradox" reverse whirl is fresh and cool (and oh, how I hope to hit it some day, before it becomes "stale and rank" like butterfly), and everyone expressing an opinion here has legitimate claims to being right. It's becoming clear where the differences lie. Some say, "It ain't paradox, 'cause it don't have that snaking out and around motion or 'feel' of other paradox moves." And yet others say, "It ain't just reverse whirl, 'cause it ain't as easy as reverse whirl." > Once again I submit, as Greg said, the move is still "fresh and > cool" and this is all my opinion. > > I love this game, > Brad But props to anyone who hits opposite reverse whirl and enjoys it, shred on. matt From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 11 21:08:58 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22799 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:08:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com (bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com [205.145.1.251]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03057 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 06:16:34 -0800 Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:16:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88477ED4@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Riefer, Robert" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] A worlds 2001 question Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:15:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis Ross [mailto:freefloe@continet.com] > There have been discussions in the past about creating > separate Worlds for freestyle, net, and golf/consecutives (or > combining golf and consecs with one of the others) this, in > my opinion is worth exploring. Hey all- In response to this idea... I may not really know my stuff on this, but I think that two worlds would only separate freestylers and netters more. I like the idea of trying to promote unity between the two groups of players -- however in vain that goal may be. :-) Just my thought on the issue. Bob Riefer Philly Footworks From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 11 21:17:27 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22939 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:17:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03451 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 06:28:01 -0800 Received: from default - 63.11.187.71 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 06:27:22 -0800 Message-ID: <004501c07bdb$b81aeb00$a0ba0b3f@default> From: "Tina Lewis" To: , "Dennis Ross" References: <20010106183442140.AAA465@falcon.continet.com@LOCALNAME> Subject: Re: [freestyle] A worlds 2001 question Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:34:43 -0600 Organization: Microsoft Corporation X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Becca and Dennis and all.... - Having scaled back our "small" tournament down here I have to agree with Becca. I sent Brad my outline list of all the tasks necessary for a small tournament. While I think splitting Worlds might be a viable solution, I hate to do anything that furthers the split between the freestylers and the net players. Also, given the difficulty people have of getting to one World's competition I think most of us would have to choose between one or the other. It would make me very sad.... One of the highlights of Worlds for me is having that day off and going down to watch some awesome freestyle while I rest my net legs... That is no consolation for those that compete in both but its also part of what makes overall so challenging. Maybe its just better to have freestyle rounds done earlier so that net legs are not as big a factor. I don't know... Its all very disturbing to me. If Worlds isn't scheduled fast many people will lose the opportunity to go this year. Sigh.... Tina. [ moderator's note: I may have goofed when I approved the original message in this thread... a discussion about splitting worlds really belongs on the general footbag discussion list, not on the advanced freestyle list. So if y'all would be so kind as to redirect your replies to this thread to footbag@footbag.org (and perhaps include a bit of an explanation as to what exactly you're talking about, for the benefit of those strange people who are on the footbag list but not the freestyle list), it would be much appreciated. Thanks. -bfk ] From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 11 21:18:22 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22992 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:18:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f62.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.62]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15187 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:41:12 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:40:36 -0800 Received: from 132.241.246.206 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:40:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [132.241.246.206] From: "Tara Ohr" To: pipisurfpunk@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Zealands 2001 Champs Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:40:36 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jan 2001 20:40:36.0354 (UTC) FILETIME=[C0457E20:01C07C0E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I love to hear about more women playing the sport. I just recently found two new women in my town who are ready to start shredding (or at least a little freestyle). Keep on kickin, Tara pip fulstow wrote: >YYYEEEAAAHHHH >It was PHAT!!! Seeing Ryan Mulroney in the flesh, >kicking some insanity!!!! Nice work and of course he >won the open mens freestyle. Cool to see he compete in >the consecutives also...sorry can't remember the >score. > >A massive "CONGRAT'S" to Ratna Dyer for first place in >the open women's freestyle...she's only been kicking >tricks in the last year, and wrapped it up, even with >torn filaments in her quadraceps!!!! I think she >desreves a medal for the most progression, out of any >of the Girlies in New Zealand, in the shortest space >of time. > >I can't wait to kick with the crew again, > >So, that's it from me... the New Zealand update >brought to you by pipisurfpunk!!!!!! From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 11 21:19:50 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA23019 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:19:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ems.salk.edu (ems.salk.edu [198.202.69.12]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19400 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:45:47 -0800 Received: from [198.202.67.129] (198.202.67.129) by ems.salk.edu (Worldmail 1.3.167) for freestyle@footbag.org; 11 Jan 2001 14:49:07 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:46:02 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Cameron Kennedy Subject: [freestyle] shoe reviews Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org FWIW, When the millenium lavers came out, i was all about giving them a shot, but they didn't fit my feet right at all. After a few months of trying I decided to revert to the old laver only to discover that there was no way in hell i would put my knees through that. I have heard others describe similar experiences too. After a year of searching, I have finally found TWO shoes that are very good, and i am playing footbag once again. The first is the Nike air presto. This shoe is composed of a sock stuck to a running shoe sole. The clipper catch is awesome. There is no toe box, but there is also no shoe to get in the way. This shoe offers the best of playing barefoot, and having a good clipper stall. The problems with this shoe are there is no toe box, and you have to play like you are barefoot, and the sole is made of a rubber that feels very similar to a pencil eraser, plus it's nike. : ( $85 http://www.finishline.com/productDisplay.asp?SID=YL0815345QD0678367&catid=1&dept id=7&depttext=Running&StyleID=7469&ColorID=042 The second is the Brooks Hyperion. This is a slightly heavier shoe, ie about 1/3 the weight of an old laver, with excellent shock absorbtion. Features a generous amount of extra soft mesh, and hydroflow in foref oot and heel. The clipper catch is sooooo similar to the classic laver, and the toe box opens up nicely. This shoes required near zero adjustment time. The down side to this shoe is the tread. The bottoms are composed of extra durable HRP rubber, but in a unique pattern that may cause problems for people who play on thick carpet or spin with a firmly planted foot. $55 http://www.brookssports.com/gear/footWear/s00Hyp.html Also used were the new balance 100. These were in fact shoes, but they did not offer the benefits of the above shoes. The cushioning was good, but more so in the heel than the forefoot. The bottoms were great, the clippers were passable but not good, and the toes were damn difficult. I think these have been discontinued. They were best for people soft on their feet anyway, who prefer a low bounce shoe. comfortable AND functional shoes, Cameron -----------| Every man is dishonest who lives upon the labor of others, no matter if he occupies a throne. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 11 21:24:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA23112 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:24:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts7.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.40]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23188 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:25:34 -0800 Received: from dave ([64.230.79.73]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010112002456.KYZW6682.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@dave> for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:24:56 -0500 Message-ID: <004601c07c2d$a720efa0$0b01010a@dave> From: "Dave Reid" To: References: <20010106070558.6735.qmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chicago Millennium footbag jam (it's vigorous, but it's controlled) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:21:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mr. Risden wrote: > Ok ok. "This" is really hard to explain. It's a > symposium tomohawk hit with your hands on your head, > hooping the bag up through one arm and back down > through the other. It's a funky move. Looks odd. That's a really cool move James. Great to see that people finding new creative things to do with the bag. Now that I have a high speed connection at home, I check out all these videos, and I love it. The only thing that has been bothering me is that none of the viewers I have used will do a proper frame-by-frame. Usually I am forced to do an awkward mouse control thing which stinks. Now with all these people on here putting these videos into computer format, maybe you can tell me if there is a viewer that can do this. A friend told me that it might be a limitation of the codec. Does anyone know? Thanks, Dave [ private replies for the slo-mo question, please. this is offtopic and the list traffic is picking up. -moderator a.k.a. bfk ] From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 11 21:27:00 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA23145 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:27:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f218.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.218]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01512 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 05:32:30 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 05:31:54 -0800 Received: from 128.206.120.240 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:31:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] A call to video makers Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:31:54 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jan 2001 13:31:54.0495 (UTC) FILETIME=[DCD948F0:01C07BD2] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Neil Bearse wrote: > Allan Haggett wrote: > > Andrew, Matt and anyone who cares :) > > > > Somone correct me if I'm waaay wrong, but DVD authoring is still *far* too > > expensive to be available for the limited production atmosphere of Footbag > > videos. .... >Just read about this stuff today... DVD-R (writing DVD's that will >play on a DVD player... Different from DVD-RAM, which are mainly for >saving data) will be available in PC's this coming year. I actually, since making my previous post, just saw a writable DVD player. Not a drive in a computer, but a freestanding unit--similar to a VCR. It is on the market currently, made by Panasonic and available at Neiman Marcus. Neiman Marcus you say? Yup, and it runs a cool $2999.99. So everyone buy those videos from Eli so he can afford it. :) Later Ian From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 11 21:28:01 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA23167 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:28:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dantz.com by sjc3sosrv11.alter.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: [63.95.223.88]) id QQjxol12387 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:55:01 GMT Received: from [63.94.235.214] ([63.94.235.214] verified) by dantz.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3) with ESMTP id 1357995 for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:54:06 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:54:40 -0800 Subject: Re: [freestyle] A call to video makers From: Tuan Vu To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id OAA19354 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Apple just announced at MacWorld 2001 that the new G4s come with DVD-R drive built-in and will sell for about $3500. They are obviously losing money on every unit they sell, but this will be the most affordable solution for those interested in DVD authoring. I believe that the DVD Studio Pro software is an additional $1000. Just think...multi-angle shred footage with DTS!! _Tuan Neil Bearse wrote: > On 12/29/00 3:36 AM, "Allan Haggett" wrote: > >> Andrew, Matt and anyone who cares :) >> >> Somone correct me if I'm waaay wrong, but DVD authoring is still *far* too >> expensive to be available for the limited production atmosphere of Footbag >> videos. .... > > Just read about this stuff today... DVD-R (writing DVD's that will play on a > DVD player... Different from DVD-RAM, which are mainly for saving data) will > be available in PC's this coming year. Compaq will be releasing a computer > with this technology and there are also rumours that Apple Computer will > also be including them with their new PowerMacs (props to Eli for > representing with an iMAC :) ) . This technology is coming fast.. I cant > wait for the day when I can watch shred footage with digital sound and > picture, on a flatscreen plasma TV... While my robotic dog fetches me drinks > and cleans the house... I donšt even wanna think about the sick moves that > will be being busted on the screen... (quintuple around the worlds :) ) > Anywayz... Just thought I'd share the info since the subject was being > discussed > - Neil From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 12 13:32:27 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA30862 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:32:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web9010.mail.yahoo.com (web9010.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.128.172]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA12915 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:43:13 -0800 Message-ID: <20010112114307.66914.qmail@web9010.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [38.233.72.2] by web9010.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:43:07 PST Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:43:07 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Wilson Subject: [freestyle] What is the sauce? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Pls forgive my ignorance, but what is the job's for Big Apple Sauce? Later, Mike ===== Ft. Worth Hackaholics Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 12 13:32:40 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA30867 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:32:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from f04n07.cac.psu.edu (f04s07.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.35]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA15801 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 05:28:02 -0800 Received: from integer.psu.edu (tnt1-161-226.cac.psu.edu [130.203.161.226]) by f04n07.cac.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA68078 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:27:54 -0500 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010112082202.00aac220@email.psu.edu> X-Sender: awf108@email.psu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:27:32 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Alexander Faber Subject: [freestyle] Achilles Tendon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Howdy stylers, Has anyone every experienced severe pain in the Achilles Tendon from shredding too hard? I pushed 3 hour sessions for 4 days in a row last week, and my Ach. T. hasn't been the same since. Most mornings when I wake up it seems okay, but throughout the day I develop a feeling that it's grating on something in my ankle (it sort of creaks when I point and flex toes). Also, I get this shooting pain when I put my foot in the clipper position and flex it like I'm about to delay the bag. Any tips on this aside from not shredding for a few days or seeing a doctor (both of which are fairly horrible thoughts in my opinion)? Incidentally, this has me really pissed off because I hit my first 5-add (Mobius) a couple days ago, and now I have to lay low for a few days. One last thing. . .spinning dyno seems to be the logical rewind of mobius. . .has anybody hit these two in combination yet? Shred on, Alex (Integer of P.S.T.) [Currently on the disabled list] From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 12 13:32:57 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA30876 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:32:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1303.mail.yahoo.com (web1303.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.153]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA17786 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 06:25:54 -0800 Received: (qmail 27912 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jan 2001 14:38:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20010112143839.27911.qmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.0.224.35] by web1303.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 06:38:39 PST Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 06:38:39 -0800 (PST) From: Jane Jones Reply-To: janejones2000@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Zealands 2001 Champs To: pipisurfpunk@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey there, It's cool to hear you have some women freestylers down there. 4 is actually an awesome turn-out. Last year's world's, we were lucky to have 9 or 10 women competitors. That's the most I've ever seen in one place. The European Master's tournament had a pretty good female following too while I was in Paris last year. There were probably about 12 girls kicking at the site, but only 3 of us actually competed. Sometimes we're lucky to even have enough women freestylers to have our own bracket! It's really cool to hear you and other women are shredding down under...what tricks are you skooling? See ya, Jane > pip fulstow wrote: > > >YYYEEEAAAHHHH > >It was PHAT!!! Seeing Ryan Mulroney in the flesh, > >kicking some insanity!!!! Nice work and of course he > >won the open mens freestyle. Cool to see he compete in > >the consecutives also...sorry can't remember the > >score. > > > >A massive "CONGRAT'S" to Ratna Dyer for first place in > >the open women's freestyle...she's only been kicking > >tricks in the last year, and wrapped it up, even with > >torn filaments in her quadraceps!!!! I think she > >desreves a medal for the most progression, out of any > >of the Girlies in New Zealand, in the shortest space > >of time. > > > >I can't wait to kick with the crew again, > > > >So, that's it from me... the New Zealand update > >brought to you by pipisurfpunk!!!!!! From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 12 17:44:14 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA00849 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:44:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03626 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 14:41:47 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7204401N1A3J@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:41:34 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:41:34 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Guiltless Training In-reply-to: <000701c078f9$4d8dc3a0$9ce24318@kldt1.bc.wave.home.com> To: Jeff Lopes Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org One if the big problems I had when doing the guiltless thing was not knowing enough 3's. By knowing I mean "able to hit at any given moment". Butterfly, Osis, and Pdx Mirage are all good moves to school because they are probably the easiest to bail to when in need. However, there are also other 3's and "easier" 4's that can help to make the meat of your strings. Smear, Fear, Magellan, Pixie Legover, Double Legover (toe and clip), Swirl (both ways), Whirl (both ways), Drifters, Pixie Pick-up (same and op sides), Schmoe, Dbl ATW, Double Pick-up, Double Switch-over. As for "easier" 4's, there aren't really a lot of them but I'd say Ripwalk, Extra crispy Torque, Pixie-butterfly, and Pixie Osis are in there. For me at least those 4's are easier than say Blur, Flux, SMOG... With all of theose moves to skool there are plenty of drills to me made and if both sides are drilled hard you'll be an INSANE shredder. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 12 17:45:43 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA00896 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:45:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7204401NNSD3@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:55:04 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:55:04 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move's Names Claim to Fame In-reply-to: <005001c079aa$aeef6660$33df4fd1@magician> To: Lon Smith Cc: freestyle@list.footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but I can't say I like a lot of these names. There are some that have been around for a long time and have been used a lot so everyone knows them. Some of the newer ones though I'm not too keen on. There are some in here that I do like though. > Blurry clipper Curbwalk LIKE > Pixie paradon Dimmiest DON'T LIKE > Pixie other butterfly stall Dimwalk > Pixie other clipper stall Dimdown DON'T LIKE > Pixie same butterfly stall Parkwalk > Pixie same clipper stall Parkdown DON'T LIKE > Paradox Reverse mirage Buddy DON'T LIKE > Stepping Legover Mixer > Stepping Reverse mirage Schmoe I thought Schmoe was already Stepping same Legover? I really like the name mixer, but I think it would be better used here in Stepping Reverse Mirage. > Double over flying clipper kick Flutterby > Paradon flying clipper kick Flutterby > Barfly flying clipper kick Barflyer LIKE'EM > and I think reverse whirl set should be called blundering ABSOLUTELY LIKE IT. > I don't know what the other move names there are for these moves but > these are the best names for them. I'm about to get kicked out of the computer lab because it's closing, so I can't really go into detail about why I do or don't like these names. Suffice it to say that I like the naming of moves in general and then again I don't. I'll explain it in a later post when I have more time. Later all, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 12 17:47:31 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA00908 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:47:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f119.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.119]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03737 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 14:44:25 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 14:42:39 -0800 Received: from 206.65.190.132 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:42:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [206.65.190.132] From: "Rob Fuller" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] xdex?!? What is it? Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:42:39 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jan 2001 22:42:39.0660 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7B70EC0:01C07CE8] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Me and my friend were wondering about this XDEX that is used in Eric's system. Could somone please explain fully all the rules that apply to it so I can start using it in my add count up. It doesn't exact;y make sense to us yet (no offence). Eg. Does it have to be set from toe...or can it be set from clipper.Can it be done with a pdx. etc... Rob "Flyboy" Fuller From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 12 18:32:18 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01325 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:32:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10846 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:06:00 -0800 Received: from [144.92.184.168] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id UAA21348 (8.9.1/50); Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:05:52 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.20010112200552.00f56040@students.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mklewand@students.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:05:52 -0600 To: Michael Wilson , freestyle@footbag.org From: Matthew Kain Lewandowski Subject: Re: [freestyle] What is the sauce? In-Reply-To: <20010112114307.66914.qmail@web9010.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Here it is: CLIP > (back) SPIN > OP IN > (no plant while) OP IN > (back) SPIN > OP CLIP Later, Matt Kain - Madison Footbag At 03:43 AM 1/12/01 -0800, Michael Wilson wrote: >Pls forgive my ignorance, but what is the job's for >Big Apple Sauce? > >Later, >Mike From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 12 22:10:39 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02901 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:10:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17235 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:46:27 -0800 Received: from billy ([63.199.200.195]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G7300BYE6B718@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:37:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:39:24 -0800 From: Sam Colclough Subject: Re: [freestyle] Achilles Tendon To: Alexander Faber , freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <000b01c07d23$4a8f3340$9b66fea9@billy> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010112082202.00aac220@email.psu.edu> X-Priority: 3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Chad D. has hit spinning dyno both sides. Also your problems are stemming from probably having flat feet. There is a muscle that runs from the ball of your foot up to your heel on the inside.. you can push on the arch of your foot and follow it up right before your heal with your thumb. If you do a clipper or an inside and then flex it you will feel pain. This can be corrected by getting proper arch support in your shoes. They sell insoles specifically for this problem. If you see a chiropractor he will make your foot feel better for now and can tell you which insoles are best for you. There is also a company which custom makes these for athletes which he can tell you about. -Sam OOPS! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Faber" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 5:27 AM Subject: [freestyle] Achilles Tendon > Howdy stylers, > > Has anyone every experienced severe pain in the Achilles Tendon from > shredding too hard? [snip] From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 16 23:08:45 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18119 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 23:08:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([65.10.4.236]) by mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010113062050.FKLG21827.mail.rdc2.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:20:50 -0800 Message-ID: <3A5FF431.76A6B33C@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:22:41 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move's Names Claim to Fame References: <005001c079aa$aeef6660$33df4fd1@magician> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Lon Smith wrote: > > Blurry clipper Curbwalk Otherwise known as a crispy drifter. To those of you who judge... would you count this move as unique from a drifter? > Pixie paradon Dimmiest > Pixie other butterfly stall Dimwalk > Pixie other side clipper stall Dimdown In honor of the fabled Dimitri, I presume. > Stepping clipper stall Stepdown A crispy whirl. Again, judges, is this unique from a whirl? > Pixie down double DoubleParker > Pixie same butterfly stall Parkwalk > Pixie same clipper stall Parkdown > Reverse mirage from clipper Bubba > Paradox Reverse mirage Buddy Works for me. > Stepping Legover Mixer > Stepping Reverse mirage Schmoe Whoa there. As noted on the move list, Schmoe is a stepping legover. Mixer would be an apt name for a stepping reverse mirage (stepping illusion). > Double over flying clipper kick Flutterby > Paradon flying clipper kick Flutterby I've got a problem with these moves sharing a name. Their notation is different, and I like to have one notation per name. But, I can get over it if need be... hell, look at butterfly and osis. > I'll be adding more names which will be much more open to suggestion, > but I'm already using these names. Please look at the move list that Steve keeps on footbag.org/freestyle. Many MANY people are learning this sport based solely off of things listed there. It doesn't matter how many people in your region use a particular name... the stuff on the move list is what is spread worldwide. I really like that you are adding to the list. That is great. I'm all for naming some of these moves. Hopefully, assigning names to certain moves (like your proposed stepdown) will point out the stylistic differences that should be counted as unique in judging. So, keep coming with the names... you just might want to check the move list to see if some are already up there. Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 16 23:09:04 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18124 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 23:09:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (ha1.rdc2.tx.home.com [24.14.77.20]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18252 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:27:03 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([65.10.4.236]) by mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010113062648.FKXU21827.mail.rdc2.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:26:48 -0800 Message-ID: <3A5FF598.7953C885@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:28:40 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] records Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all. I want to issue a challenge to all of you who like to do spinning moves. Hit three mobiuses in a row. As many of you know, the record list on http://www.dallasfootbag.org is growing. We now have a four-way tie for the most mobiuses: 2. Lon Smith, Peter "The Executioner" Irish, Allan Haggett and "Wicked" Eric Windsor all share this record. So far, Lon is the only one I have seen do this on tape. Allan? I know you have a camera. So, hit three and your name will be up in lights. Get it on tape. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 16 23:14:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18152 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 23:14:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12143 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:03:40 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7404O01IPWE6@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:03:32 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:03:32 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] xdex?!? What is it? In-reply-to: To: Rob Fuller Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Rob Fuller wrote: > Me and my friend were wondering about this XDEX that is used in Eric's > system. Could somone please explain fully all the rules that apply to it so > I can start using it in my add count up. It doesn't exact;y make sense to > us yet (no offence). Eric is the best to give the definition and I'm limited on time, but I'll try. An xdex add is awarded in a trick with at least two dexes which are done by opposite legs each of which does a complete dex around the bag. For instance Atom Smasher, Toe Blur, Pdx Atom Smasher, Omlette. Again, it's best explained by Eric and props to him for the ingenious idea. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 16 23:16:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18170 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 23:16:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from proxy2.connect.ab.ca (root@proxy2.connect.ab.ca [206.75.40.76]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07647 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:20:58 -0800 Received: from bott.connect.ab.ca (rdts1-165.connect.ab.ca [207.34.74.165]) by proxy2.connect.ab.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA22016 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 11:20:44 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <001001c07e56$cc678f00$a54a22cf@connect.ab.ca> From: "Ryan Bott" To: Subject: [freestyle] Ben Job's Notation Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 11:21:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a move like the blur: clip > op in dex > op in dex> op toe At the end of "op in dex"'s is there a set or delay at the end of outside-inside dexterity? I'm trying to make sense of Ben Job's proposal and the tutorial so please don't refer me to them. Ryan Bott From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 16 23:15:40 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18165 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 23:15:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (qmail 17908 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Jan 2001 23:29:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20010113232929.17907.qmail@web210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.0.224.35] by web210.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:29:29 PST Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:29:29 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zerbe Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move's Names Claim to Fame To: Lon Smith , freestyle@list.footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Lon Smith wrote: > Stepping Legover Mixer > Stepping Reverse mirage Schmoe > I was under the impression that stepping legover was schmoe and stepping reverse mirage was hubba bubba. Z From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 16 23:17:14 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18176 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 23:17:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f23.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.23]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11762 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:09:04 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:08:27 -0800 Received: from 205.188.197.52 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 21:08:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [205.188.197.52] From: "Bryan Fournier" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] old lavers Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:08:27 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jan 2001 21:08:27.0645 (UTC) FILETIME=[23AD82D0:01C07E6E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, I was wondering if anyone who's switched to the milleniums (or any other shoe for that matter) has a pair of size 11 lavers sitting at home that they could sell me for cheap... I don't feel like dishing out $60+ for the old skool lavers when I used to hear people getting them at outrageous discounts. So if you got some old skool size 11's at home or know a good bargain please reply to me separately. I haven't kicked in 2 weeks and my freestyle muscles are starting to atrophy so this would mean a lot...thanx...seeya ~Bryan Fournier OOPS! Footbag Club Hermosa Beach, CA From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 16 23:22:41 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18253 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 23:22:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1704.mail.yahoo.com (web1704.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.215]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA26383 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:01:43 -0800 Received: (qmail 22336 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jan 2001 00:30:48 -0000 Message-ID: <20010117003048.22335.qmail@web1704.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.156.71.179] by web1704.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:30:48 PST Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:30:48 -0800 (PST) From: Shaun Marques Subject: [freestyle] Blenders To: Footbag Freestyle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey stylers out there. I was shredding in French today (yeah, believe it or not, my teacher's cool with it), and I was wondering. Whirls are possible; Osises are possible; Symposium Whirls are possible; and Blenders are possible. What am I getting at? The question: Is there such a thing as a Symposium Blender, and for that matter, a PS Blender? I've never seen it on the list, and it just occurred to me today while I was shredding, because I absolutely messed up on a trick and the thought hit me. Response is appreciated. Piece, Shaun M. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 16 23:26:07 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18280 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 23:26:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from magician (vpop-150.nccn.net [209.79.223.150]) by nccn6.nccn.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/*tdw* 2000-03-16a * No UCE! *-) with SMTP id SAA23718 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:56:52 -0800 Message-ID: <002d01c07f5e$f11df6a0$96df4fd1@magician> From: "Lon Smith" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:52:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yeah Nice one Enforcer. Sunil was wrong though I belive. There might not be an x dex unless you do the move from toe. and You do not get paradox if you spin. therefore Only another 7 Add that nobody else could ever hit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my two cents The Sloth From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 19 14:15:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26732 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:15:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f105.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.105]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08155 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 01:15:51 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 01:15:10 -0800 Received: from 211.216.216.95 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:15:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [211.216.216.95] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:15:10 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jan 2001 09:15:10.0653 (UTC) FILETIME=[FDEC06D0:01C08065] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Lon wrote: >You do not get paradox if you spin. Sniff, sniff, yep. Smells like a debate coming on. To mix topics, in responce to Cameron's shoe review, I would (once again) like to point out the benefits of making shoes yourself, amongst others, that you can put in a nice airsole and larger catching surface. My latest creation can be seen here: http://members.nbci.com/NemesisDS/TheShoe.jpg They're about half the weight of Laver's, have a larger toe and insole surface and because of the rather drastic way I cut out around the ancle, allow for much easier movement. If anyone is interested in learning how to do this, contact me privately and I'll put together a guide. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 19 14:16:29 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26737 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:16:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7B07J01KKAQ1@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:26:34 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:26:34 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move's Names Claim to Fame In-reply-to: <3A5FF431.76A6B33C@dallasfootbag.org> To: Derric Scalf Cc: freestyle@list.footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > Blurry clipper Curbwalk > > Otherwise known as a crispy drifter. To those of you who judge... would > you count this move as unique from a drifter? This is a strange question, because it brings to mind that if you judged each as unique, you'd have to judge torque and crispy torque as unique. I don't thinks crispy or original torque are unique from eachother. I personally like to hit original recipe because it looks and feels cooler, but I most often hit it crispy because it's easier for me. Also, I don't know it if anyone else does this, but there are times when I'm going to hit Clipper set DLO and I end up bailing to crispy torque. ISN'T THAT NUTS. I BAIL from a 3 to a 4. Anyway, it's a tough call and despite what I wrote I'd probably judge the Drifters as unique. > > Pixie paradon Dimmiest > > Pixie other butterfly stall Dimwalk > > Pixie other side clipper stall Dimdown > > In honor of the fabled Dimitri, I presume. > > > > Stepping clipper stall Stepdown > > A crispy whirl. Again, judges, is this unique from a whirl? This one I don't think poses the same problem, because I would definitely judge Stepping osis as unique from Blender and I'd judge "stepdown" unique from whirl. > > Pixie same clipper stall Parkdown How about "Pat Down"? Though it goes against my long winded post about naming moves. > Please look at the move list that Steve keeps on footbag.org/freestyle. > Many MANY people are learning this sport based solely off of things > listed there. It doesn't matter how many people in your region use a > particular name... the stuff on the move list is what is spread > worldwide. Agreed. The whole naming game is hard. Really, I invented so many moves when I was starting out and they ended up having been invented 10 or 15 years earlier, but I'd never seen them. My friends and I invented SUPER JESTER (butterflier) and Steps (legovers) not to mention all kinds of rakes and pendulums and sole stalls. It's hard to name things and get people to use those names, especially when they already have names. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 19 14:16:50 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26742 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:16:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24062 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:39:38 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7B07N01L5U2N@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:39:30 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:39:30 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Ben Job's Notation In-reply-to: <001001c07e56$cc678f00$a54a22cf@connect.ab.ca> To: Ryan Bott Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 14 Jan 2001, Ryan Bott wrote: > In a move like the blur: > clip > op in dex > op in dex> op toe > At the end of "op in dex"'s is there a set or delay at the end of > outside-inside dexterity? Nope. In the notation a delay is noted by "clip" or "toe". As with blur the move begins with a clipper delay and ends on a toe delay. If there was a delay or something in between it would no longer be a Blur. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 19 14:17:07 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26747 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:17:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24249 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:46:22 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7B07N01LH3AV@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:46:15 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:46:15 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Blenders In-reply-to: <20010117003048.22335.qmail@web1704.mail.yahoo.com> To: Shaun Marques Cc: Footbag Freestyle Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Shaun Marques wrote: > such a thing as a Symposium Blender, and for that > matter, a PS Blender? I've never seen it on the list, A while back Rippin' posted a wonderful story about how he had come up with the definition and name for the "symposium" element. In that post he discussed this very thing. He was hitting "PS Blender" I believe at 99 Western Regionals and he decided it wasn't really a Symposium move. I think the main problem comes with sticking the delay before you land since the jump, dex, and delay are all done with the same leg. I agree and don't think it's symposium, but it's something. I liken this thread of conversation to the idea of "symposium butterfly". I think the main problem with that one and this one is the question of ABSOLUTE CLEANLINESS. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 19 14:17:35 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26753 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:17:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24765 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:05:26 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7B07O01MCV93@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:05:19 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:05:19 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] Re: Sauce = 9 ADDS In-reply-to: <002d01c07f5e$f11df6a0$96df4fd1@magician> To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, Lon Smith wrote: > Sunil was wrong though I belive. > There might not be an x dex unless you do the move from toe. > and > You do not get paradox if you spin. > therefore Only another 7 Add > that nobody else could ever hit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hmmm. I'd have to disagree on this. I'm not trying to make a personal thing of disagreeing with Lon all the time or anything because I admire him greatly, but here's my reasoning. Xdex... I'm not sure, but I think it was thought of to take care of that pesky add that always got missed in Atom Smasher and Toe Blur. It is defined (I believe) as having each leg independently doing a complete 360 around the bag in a single trick. Well I think this also applys to Pdx Atom Smasher and Pdx Blur (kind of an oxymoron) which are set from clipper. Not to mention Voodoo and Blurry Voodo and Pdx Blizzard. So if this reasoning is correct that makes the Sauce 8 again. Spinning Pdx... I've always thought pdx belongs in spin moves. John Schneider and I had a conversation about this last week and he made a good point that solidified my thinking. Instead of "spinning pdx" think of it more as a "gyro pdx". The defining point here being that a gyro move puts the bag on the op side of the body that forces the paradox motion. I think some clear examples of this are "gyro" pdx torque (marius?) and "gyro" pdx drifter. So following this whole line of reasoning the Sauce is back up to 9. Uh adds shmads :) Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 19 14:18:01 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26759 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:18:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26118 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:52:21 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7B07R01OJ20D@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:52:14 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:52:14 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] 2nd Annual Colorado Shred Symposium To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I know this should have gone through "announce", but I wasn't sure how and I wasn't actually going to be the one to post anything about it, but it's getting awfully close and many of you may need to make some plans to get the time off work and get here. As many of you know, last year Eli Piltz, Dave Holton, & John Schneider put together the inaugural Colorado Shred Symposium. Freestylers from all over the country (and Canada) came to this event to do what they love best... SHRED. Well Eli's gone to California to continue spreading the gospel and Dave has moved back to the White Slopes of Aspen. The good news (drum roll please....) John Schneider has taken up the torch and has been setting the stage for the 2nd Annual Colorado Shred Symposium. John has been doing a lot of legwork (tee hee.. shred..legwork) and has organized a HUGE event for this year. The dates for this event are February 24th and 25th. As of right now we will be using the same location as last year, The Toadstool Playhouse. Some of you may remember a bit of a lighting problem from last year, but this year John has chosen to rent extra lighting to make up the difference. The Toadstool Playhouse has a nice hard rubber basketball court for playing. Those of you who have seen Eli and Dave video "California Connection" will recognize it from much of the opening footage. Again this is a pure SHRED event. There will be two days of 45 second shred competition. For sure there are OPEN and INTERMEDIATE levels. This is a PRIZE MONEY EVENT (cha ching) for OPEN competitors. All levels of play are welcome. This is the place to come if you're a beginner or an intermediate and you just keep saying to yourself "man I need to get better". It's also a wonderfully encouraging place to compete and learn from some of the best in the world. And for all of the Net players or freestylers who may be slipping that way, you must come and taste the thrill of shred. Like I said, some of the best in the world will be in attendance. I don't have all of the names but we've got the locals; Rippin Rick Reese, Daryl Genz, John Schneider, Red (could it really be) Husted, Dave Holton, and myself. More top shredders include Chad Devlohavich (sorry), Sunil Jani and Derric Scalf. Believe me there are many more of the TOP in the world, I just don't have all the names. There are many surprises in store for the 2nd Annual Colorado Shred Symposium and all those who attend so you don't want to miss this. More info will follow soon as far as entry fees, directions, and host hotels are concerned. This message will self destruct in 10 seconds. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 19 14:18:18 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26774 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:18:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (ha1.rdc2.tx.home.com [24.14.77.20]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27432 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:32:09 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([65.10.4.236]) by mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010117203152.PMZD21827.mail.rdc2.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:31:52 -0800 Message-ID: <3A6601CF.81F88F6D@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:34:23 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: Footbag Freestyle Subject: Re: [freestyle] Blenders References: <20010117003048.22335.qmail@web1704.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Shaun Marques wrote: > > The question: Is there > such a thing as a Symposium Blender, and for that > matter, a PS Blender? Nope. Though I have seen Rippin hit both of these as cleanly as they can be done. In order for the last dex in a move to be symposium, you can't catch the bag with the dexing leg. The "symposium" blender is still a stylee move. Do it if you can... just don't expect the judging system to reward you for style with an extra add. I guess that is why they have presentation cards... -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 19 14:18:36 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26784 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:18:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f280.hotmail.com [216.32.180.134]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02996 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:41:48 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:41:12 -0800 Received: from 129.93.186.1 by lw2fd.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:41:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.93.186.1] From: "Brian Mckenzie" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Footbag on TV Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:41:11 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jan 2001 00:41:12.0032 (UTC) FILETIME=[5B15A600:01C080E7] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I am happy to report that last night I was watching tv when I saw a bank commercial (CCI or something) with a LONG footbag scene. This guy was standing in the middle of the street kicking outside and inside kicks for about 8 seconds. Incidentally, I was talking to Red Husted on the phone when the commercial came on, so I didn't catch the whole thing. Just thought I'd mention it, it was on Comedy Central and looked like a national commercial, not one of those local ones where the guy at the furniture store has his 7 year old daughter say something at the end and it's all cute and shit. Has anyone else seen this bank commercial? Later, Brian From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 19 14:19:14 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26804 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:19:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01758 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:05:30 -0800 Received: from zero.excite.com ([199.172.152.241]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010118200454.INDK14313.fortune.excite.com@zero.excite.com> for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:04:54 -0800 Message-ID: <5916379.979848293583.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:04:53 -0800 (PST) From: Yacine Merzouk To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] two new moves named! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 64.228.169.13 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org YO! So everybody's been stylin'? Sharpening your blades for the Shred Symposium? I have been and there's two moves I hit that now have cool names - that is if they don't have cool names already. Backside symposium atom smasher is called witchdoctor if I'm not mistaken. I've been hitting frontside symp. atom smasher and wanted to call it Guru. Here's job's notation for it. toe > (no plant) op out > op in > op toe Also a fairy dlo is known as flog. It means to hit somebody right? I'm french canadian and I barely speak english but I've been told that's what it means. I wanted to call a fairy eggbeater "flic" because it means policeman in french and it sounds like fear, fudge, flog, etc. Here's the notation: toe > same out > op out > op out > same toe That's it. Shred on! -Yacine From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Jan 19 14:19:40 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26815 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:19:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Kenny Shults Received: from KenShults@aol.com by imo-r11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id t.5f.fa0c1dc (4206); Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:28:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5f.fa0c1dc.2797062b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:28:59 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS To: magician@nccn.net, freestyle@list.footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 171 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org There are currently at least 4 moves on the footbag.org list that include spinning paradox - Spinning Paradox Whirl, Spinning Paradox Illusion, Spinning Paradox Mirage, and Spinning Paradox Belnder. I actually agree with Lon in principal. My opinion is that none of the above tricks are paradox. I do however feel that the Sauce includes a paradox dex but I see it as the second dex rather than the lead dex. The way I see it, the paradox on the second dex becomes possible because of the first dex. In other words the same dex wouldn't be paradox ordinarily as in the Big Apple but leading with the first spinning dex opens the paradox door for the second dex. Hence, I feel the Sauce includes a paradox and is 8 Adds. It also satisfies the conditions for x-dex and would be 9 under that system. The bottom line of course is that it is a very hard trick. The Chilly Sauce escaped videotape but this last weekend in a session with Peter Irish I got it again and have it on tape this time. Also got Blurry Whirling Swirl and Backside Symposium Blur Juggle on tape as well. I'm also working on three other variations of the Sauce - 1. Same as original but Blizzard rather than Blur. 2 & 3. Same as first two but do the first dex Gyro so bag ends up on set foot at the end. These would all be 8's or x-dex 9's according to the same logic as the original. Kenny From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 20 03:07:27 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA28397 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 20 Jan 2001 03:07:27 -0800 Received: from llic.net (llic.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA28394 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 2001 03:07:26 -0800 Received: from [210.55.20.102] ([24.16.30.200]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id DAA09268 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 2001 03:04:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: Host [24.16.30.200] claimed to be [210.55.20.102] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.21 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5f.fa0c1dc.2797062b@aol.com> References: <5f.fa0c1dc.2797062b@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 00:05:18 +1300 To: freestyle@list.footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Paradox spins (was: Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:28 AM -0500 1/17/01, Kenny Shults wrote: >There are currently at least 4 moves on the footbag.org list that include >spinning paradox - Spinning Paradox Whirl, Spinning Paradox Illusion, >Spinning Paradox Mirage, and Spinning Paradox Belnder. > >I actually agree with Lon in principal. My opinion is that none of the above >tricks are paradox. Sorry, Kenny, you can't drop out of the freestyle scene for almost four years and just come back and think nothing's changed. :-) You and Rippin' created a monster, and it's got its own soul now. I regretfully inform you that spinning in no way negates the paradox concept. Paradox, like any other concept you invented :-), describes additional difficulty of a dexterity, which is no different in a spinning move (when executed correctly) than with a non-spinning move. The reasoning is straightforward... In this newest era of freestyle, which probably started in the last few years with the common use of "complex sets" or "prefixes" (most recently, atomic and nuclear, but including pixie, stepping, and spinning (both away- and in-)) moves are now thought of in terms of at least three components: the beginning, the middle, and the end. :-) The beginning frequently involves one or two adds in and of itself -- a very distinct prefix that *must* happen while the bag is on its way *up* after the set. (The adds in the prefix are usually spins and/or dexterities, sometimes paradox (e.g., nuclear).) The middle is what always used to be thought of as the trick itself -- while the bag's at its apex or on the way down. (N adds, usually dexterities, body (including paradox and spins, but also fliers). The end is as always the contact (which can have 0 adds or can have any combination of cross-body, delay, and unusual surface). [In fact, as a quick aside, I assert that the existing add categories can *only* be attributed to the following components of a move: Beginning: dexterity, body (usually spin, rarely pdx or flyer) Middle: dexterity, body (spin, paradox, and/or flyer) End: delay, cross-body, unusual surface Note: delay, cross-body, and unusual surface have nothing to do with anything. :-) What's *interesting* to modern freestylers are dexterity and body. So we need to drill down into what makes dexterities interesting and hard, and what body really means, hence the need to once and for all resolve and agree on paradox because it is really nothing more than a hard-to-hit dexterity. :-) And of course, multiple dexterities and partial-to-full dexterities need to be better understood, too.] Now, back to paradox spinning moves: With spinning-prefixed moves, when done right anyway, the spin is *complete* before the bag begins its descent. (This is different than spinning moves like osis where the spin is part of the middle.) So, many players who do a lot of spins can make a trick with a spin look just like the same trick without the spin. They spin so quickly, and do the trick so cleanly, that the spin is a very distinct prefix to the otherwise non-spinning version of the move. As an example, gyrating mirage is really three parts: (0) the clipper set (not counted as part of the move); (1) the spin-away prefix, with the player stopping as soon as the spin is complete, and spotting the bag; (2) the dexterity, in-out over the bag, as it's on its way down; (3) the toe delay with the other foot, ending the move. Now, I contend that the work involved in hitting a *regular* mirage from clipper, without the spin, is *identical*: (0) the clipper set (not counted as part of the move); (1) no prefix; just waiting for the bag to reach its apex and start down; (2) the dexterity, in-out over the bag, as it's on its way down; (3) the toe delay with the other foot, ending the move. For the paradox version -- spinning paradox mirage: (0) the clipper set; (1) the spin-away prefix; (2) a paradox in-out dex with the "wrong" foot (exactly identical motion required in #2 below) (3) the opposite toe delay For non-spinning regular paradox mirage: (0) the clipper set; (1) the empty prefix; (2) a paradox in-out dex with the "wrong" foot (identical motion to #2 above) (3) the opposite toe delay What makes paradox paradox is by definition not the set. It's the motion you must do (not the motion you *could* do, but the one you *must* do) to hit the "harder" dexterity. Without getting into the Great Paradox Debate of 1996 (which you basically were not around for, your first post to this list being Jan. 4th, 1997), suffice it to say that the closest definition of paradox is a "cross-body dexterity in front of you, which makes it "the long way around"). I can defend that definition but don't intend to here, unless you really want to get into it, in which case I will. :-) To hit gyrating paradox mirage, you have to move your dex leg slightly past the bag so you can come back from the other side to do the dex (the paradox motion). There's no other way to do it. This is why paradox is so cool, and this exists exactly for spinning moves just like for non-spinning moves, especially if you see the world the way I do, with prefix sets. >I do however feel that the Sauce includes a paradox dex As it should. :-) >but I see it as the second dex rather than the lead dex. That's a red herring. You are definitely seeing a pattern, but it appears arbitrary to me the inference you're drawing that paradox only works if there are two dexes in a spin. The pattern is that paradox exists because of the position of the bag when you *begin* the dexterity, whether you prefixed it with a spin, a hop, a jump, another couple of dexes, a few sneezes, or what have you. >The bottom line of course is that it is a very hard trick. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:20:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA30992 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:20:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (qmail 16661 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jan 2001 14:50:50 -0000 Received: from 213?21?35?174.surf-callino.de (HELO quarktasche) (213.21.35.174) by mail.gmx.net (mail05) with SMTP; 20 Jan 2001 14:50:50 -0000 Message-ID: <006601c082f0$1671e9e0$d02515d5@quarktasche> From: "Matthias Lino Schmidt" To: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag on TV Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:35:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Good Morning, what Kamikenzie reported us is not the single appearance of footbag on TV in the last time. Maybe some of you might have seen the 15th episode in the second season of "Futurama". This episode, called "The Problem With Popplers", shows a man kicking a purple bag after about 5 and a half minutes. There's a protest march of some hippie animal rights organization (named "M.E.A.T." - "Mankind for Ethical Animal Treatment"), in which this guy takes part. He is wearing nothing but long jeans, rolled up at the bottom. You can even hear the sound of his kicking, it's four times something like "fff". Again, footbag is shown as a game of meat-repudiating, plane-imitating (yep, there's one women doing this) and unsatisfied hippies. So long, Matthias......... P.S. I've got a screenshot of this guy, so anyone interested to see him can email me personally. P.P.S. The (supposingly) first Superfly (in one string with Vortex and other ill stuff) in Germany was hit yesterday by Berlin's top shredder Alex Michelewski! Brian McKenzie wrote: > I am happy to report that last night I was watching tv when I saw a bank > commercial (CCI or something) with a LONG footbag scene. This guy was > standing in the middle of the street kicking outside and inside kicks for > about 8 seconds. Incidentally, I was talking to Red Husted on the phone > when the commercial came on, so I didn't catch the whole thing. Just thought > I'd mention it, it was on Comedy Central and looked like a national > commercial, not one of those local ones where the guy at the furniture store > has his 7 year old daughter say something at the end and it's all cute and > shit. Has anyone else seen this bank commercial? Later, > Brian From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:21:01 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA30997 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:21:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16425 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:54:39 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7H02J01E6SLZ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:54:28 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:54:28 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag on TV In-reply-to: To: Brian Mckenzie Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org It was SO SWEET. It wasn't anything fancy or tricky, but it was footbag and it was on TV. It was a Citibank commercial that had captions about how life is wonderful with money and it's great to relax and do fun things, or something to that effect. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:20:08 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA30982 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:20:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com (bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com [205.145.1.251]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16344 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:46:56 -0800 Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:47:46 -0500 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88477F93@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Riefer, Robert" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Footbag on TV Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:47:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I think the commercial was for Citibank... Brian Mckenzie [mailto:kamakenzie@hotmail.com] wrote: > I am happy to report that last night I was watching tv when I saw a > bank commercial (CCI or something) with a LONG footbag scene. This > guy was standing in the middle of the street kicking outside and > inside kicks for about 8 seconds. Incidentally, I was talking to Red > Husted on the phone when the commercial came on, so I didn't catch the > whole thing. Just thought I'd mention it, it was on Comedy Central > and looked like a national commercial, not one of those local ones > where the guy at the furniture store has his 7 year old daughter say > something at the end and it's all cute and shit. Has anyone else seen > this bank commercial? Later, Brian From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:21:18 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA31002 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:21:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16739 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:12:52 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7H02H01F0Z98@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:12:35 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:12:34 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS In-reply-to: <5f.fa0c1dc.2797062b@aol.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Kenny Shults wrote: > I'm also working on three other variations of the Sauce - > 1. Same as original but Blizzard rather than Blur. > 2 & 3. Same as first two but do the first dex Gyro so bag ends up on set foot > at the end. > These would all be 8's or x-dex 9's according to the same logic as the > original. AAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Just when I felt myself starting to improve to the point of breaking that next glass ceiling, I find another one in the way that's BULLET PROOF. I guess it's time to break out the Teflon coated blades. Keep it up Kenny, show us no boundarys. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:20:22 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA30987 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:20:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from c4720a ([24.178.207.137]) by femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010120063738.ZPUB7869.femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c4720a>; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:37:38 -0800 Message-ID: <002d01c082b5$2d6bb9e0$89cfb218@ftclns1.co.home.com> From: "Richard Reese" To: "Kenny Shults" , , References: <5f.fa0c1dc.2797062b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:47:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all, Rippin' here. Shults, I meant to call you last week and congratulate you on hitting the SAUCE, It's truly an amazing accomplishment. It doesn't sound like you're stopping there either....... great to here that you're shredding harder than ever, and especially pain-free! Right On. I hope you can make it to the Symposium in Feb. Let me know if you can. I want to see some footage of your JAM with Pete, You two are awesome, still shreddin' after all these years. I have to say that I will be at the Symposium, but NOT competing. My injuries haven't subsided, but I hope to be back in competition form in the future. Take Care, see y'all soon. Rippin'. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenny Shults" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 6:28 AM Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS > There are currently at least 4 moves on the footbag.org list that include > spinning paradox - Spinning Paradox Whirl, Spinning Paradox Illusion, > Spinning Paradox Mirage, and Spinning Paradox Belnder. > > I actually agree with Lon in principal. My opinion is that none of the above > tricks are paradox. I do however feel that the Sauce includes a paradox dex > but I see it as the second dex rather than the lead dex. The way I see it, > the paradox on the second dex becomes possible because of the first dex. In > other words the same dex wouldn't be paradox ordinarily as in the Big Apple > but leading with the first spinning dex opens the paradox door for the second > dex. Hence, I feel the Sauce includes a paradox and is 8 Adds. It also > satisfies the conditions for x-dex and would be 9 under that system. > > The bottom line of course is that it is a very hard trick. The Chilly Sauce > escaped videotape but this last weekend in a session with Peter Irish I got > it again and have it on tape this time. Also got Blurry Whirling Swirl and > Backside Symposium Blur Juggle on tape as well. > > I'm also working on three other variations of the Sauce - > 1. Same as original but Blizzard rather than Blur. > 2 & 3. Same as first two but do the first dex Gyro so bag ends up on set foot > at the end. > These would all be 8's or x-dex 9's according to the same logic as the > original. > > Kenny ----- End forwarded message ----- From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:19:37 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA30975 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:19:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from davisbrody.com (mail.davisbrody.com [205.253.194.181]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16269 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:44:38 -0800 Received: from davisbrody.com [209.73.237.244] by davisbrody.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.04) id A35244740122; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:44:34 -0500 Message-ID: <3A68C368.4A1669FB@davisbrody.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:44:56 -0500 From: Bruce Dole X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag on TV References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Brian Mckenzie wrote: > I am happy to report that last night I was watching tv when I saw a bank > commercial (CCI or something) with a LONG footbag scene. This guy was > standing in the middle of the street kicking outside and inside kicks for > about 8 seconds. Incidentally, I was talking to Red Husted on the phone > when the commercial came on, so I didn't catch the whole thing. Just thought > I'd mention it, it was on Comedy Central and looked like a national > commercial, not one of those local ones where the guy at the furniture store > has his 7 year old daughter say something at the end and it's all cute and > shit. Has anyone else seen this bank commercial? Later, > Brian Hey Brian (and everyone), I haven't seen the commercial yet, but they had a casting call for it right here in NYC. Almost the entire NYFA roster had an audition scheduled, but it got cancelled the day before it was supposed to happen. I think another casting company took over or something, I'm not sure...oh well, I'm glad the commercial was made, just for the "footbag publicity factor", but it would have been nice to be in it, too. I'll bet we could have snuck some freestyle in there.... Later, Bruce Dole NYFA From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:22:33 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA31069 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:22:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Kenny Shults Received: from KenShults@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id z.79.f344475 (24901); Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:21:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <79.f344475.279d0f42@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:21:22 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox spins (was: Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS) To: brat@footbag.org, freestyle@list.footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 171 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I should have known better than to open the paradox can of worms. But I would like to acknowledge that while I still believe that spinning paradox whirl and spinning paradox blender don't really "feel" paradox, there are a number of spinning moves that do such as marius. I apologize if my previous post upset the delicate paradox peace treaty of 1996 :) Kenny From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:23:12 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA31081 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:23:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f179.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.179]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA16996 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 05:09:04 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 05:08:27 -0800 Received: from 171.161.224.10 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:08:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [171.161.224.10] From: "LAURA ZELLER" To: kamakenzie@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag on TV Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:08:26 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2001 13:08:27.0205 (UTC) FILETIME=[68951F50:01C08474] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I saw it Friday night on FOX. It is a commercial for CITI Bank. And, it really is well done. ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Brian Mckenzie" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Footbag on TV Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:41:11 -0600 I am happy to report that last night I was watching tv when I saw a bank commercial (CCI or something) with a LONG footbag scene. This guy was standing in the middle of the street kicking outside and inside kicks for about 8 seconds. Incidentally, I was talking to Red Husted on the phone when the commercial came on, so I didn't catch the whole thing. Just thought I'd mention it, it was on Comedy Central and looked like a national commercial, not one of those local ones where the guy at the furniture store has his 7 year old daughter say something at the end and it's all cute and shit. Has anyone else seen this bank commercial? Later, Brian From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:24:21 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA31099 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:24:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11604.mail.yahoo.com (web11604.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.56]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA01102 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:35:47 -0800 Message-ID: <20010122212641.76592.qmail@web11604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.129.16.5] by web11604.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:26:41 PST Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:26:41 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] 2nd Annual Colorado Shred To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Brad Kaplan wrote: > Believe me there are many more of the TOP in > the world, I just don't have all the names. Hmmm, yeah I think you missed some important ones, so to fill the gap: Kenny Shults, Peter Irish, Ahren Gehrman, Ryan Mulroney, Eli Piltz, Richie Abshire, Eric Windsor, Eric Wulff, Carol Wedemeyer, and a whole lot more. I should go ahead and make this important announcement now. I will hereby award the first of many "Zohar Productions Phat Trick Award". This is at my own discretion, and it is not limited to competition. What it entails? Whoever busts what I consider to be the hugest, sickest, most insane trick in front of me wins $100. It should be clean, with excellent form, and caught on tape. Preferably, it should be a trick never before hit. So many insane tricks have been hit for the first time over the past year, proving that we are seriously breaking new ground. Chad recently busted Surging Barfly and Flurricane (both super clean) in San Diego, Ahren hit Your Mom at World's, and in the same circle Ryan hit Symposium Blurrier, and the list goes on... I might not be shredding in Boulder, but I will be giving my energy to the circle from behind the camera. So to those capable of making me say, "Oh my god!" be sure you represent, and you'll be on a video even more sick than Aggressive Grounds. That's all for now, Eli Z. Piltz From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:24:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA31111 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:24:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from imo-r19.mx.aol.com (imo-r19.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.73]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14166 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:47:59 -0800 Received: from Gheff912@netscape.net by imo-r19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id z.ef.95fb13 (16241) for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:45:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from netscape.com (aimmail11.aim.aol.com [205.188.144.203]) by air-in03.mx.aol.com (v77.35) with ESMTP; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:45:20 1900 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:43:55 -0500 From: Gheff912@netscape.net (Gary Heffernan) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] commercial and pastry endorsement Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <712755F5.16139472.00737198@netscape.net> X-Mailer: Franklin Webmailer 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, I'd just like to say, I did hit the quantum butterfly for my teacher and tomorrow my class will be getting cake! yes!! I sure hope more footbaggers out there can get endorsed for things, it'd be pretty sweet. I'd also like to say I did see that commercial of the old guy kickin it in the street, which is pretty cool. Also, I was watchin a tv show and they mentioned "hacky sack" which was pretty cool too. Gary From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:26:32 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA31131 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:26:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f195.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.195]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11355 for ; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:51:09 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:50:32 -0800 Received: from 149.225.103.63 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:50:32 GMT X-Originating-IP: [149.225.103.63] From: "Fabian Kollakowski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Worlds 2000 - Impressions Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:50:32 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2001 18:50:32.0729 (UTC) FILETIME=[5D294890:01C0856D] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org now who's the man again ? http://www.fortunecity.de/wolkenkratzer/pentium/614/demos/test1.mpg fabian p.s.: sorry about the file size, quality is kinda good though. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:26:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA31149 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:26:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16551 for ; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:24:21 -0800 Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ("port 3944"@webmail.mscd.edu [147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7M0047SWS375@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:24:03 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:16:39 -0700 From: kaplanb Subject: [freestyle] Shredders Spotted in Boulder To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3A4A85D7@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On the high plains of Colorado, at the base of the Rocky Mountains, 30 miles northwest of Denver, there is a small town often joked about as "The Peoples Republic of Boulder". Many people have heard of this village and know the tales of it's serene lifestyle. Some have dreamt of it's peaceful surroundings. Others have been there and return to tell the tales. Tales of wonder and merriment, tales of glory and accomplishment, TALES OF FOOTBAG SHRED. And who are these Shredders of myth and Legend? One can only hope to travel to Boulder someday (Feb. 24th and 25th) and catch a glimpse for themselves. To see these athletes, and others from all around, in their somewhat rough and natural environment is truly something to behold. This Sunday past I was lucky enough to witness this thing for myself in a manner which boggled the mind. Usually one is lucky enough to catch a small pack of these wild creatures, but not this time. There was an entire herd of them gathered on the University campus overflowing it's lecture rooms (commonly thought to be an adequate place for their humble gatherings). You may think I jest, but I promise you these eyes counted nearly 20 Shredders ranging from 1st toe stall to World Champion. When I came upon them I was somewhat nervous. How was I to know how they would react in the wild? Imagine my surprise when I found myself immediately accepted into the fold. "How is this possible?" you may ask. All I can say is that these Icons of myth and legend are truly a friendly lot, despite tales which may report otherwise. Without all the witty prose, I must tell you... A trip to Boulder is well worth it's weight in footbags. Be it tournament time, or any other in the coming year, Colorado is a well known place for shred. Beginner, Intermediate, or Pro. We've got it all. Be you dancer, kicker, or HANE PHATTY SHREDDALICIOUS. Bye for now, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:27:14 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA31159 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:27:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16856 for ; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:33:43 -0800 Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ("port 4001"@webmail.mscd.edu [147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7M004E8X7C75@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:33:12 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:25:48 -0700 From: kaplanb Subject: [freestyle] Sweet New Move? and some questions To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3A4A86F0@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The best way for me to describe this move is to say Pixie Symposium Smear. Jobs= Toe> same in (plant)> same in> (no plant while) op in> op toe. I don't do it like a High Plains Drifter, with that quick double around set. I set as though it's a pixie set that plants and then a symposium smear. I figure it's smear because the first and second dex are done with the same foot. If the first dex was one leg, second, the other, and third the original leg, I would say it's Pixie Symposium Toe Blur (that's next). Anybody out there hit these moves? I would definitely say the second one has Xdex, what about the first? Does Fury get Xdex? Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:28:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA31209 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:28:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from magician (vpop-62.nccn.net [209.79.223.62]) by nccn6.nccn.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/*tdw* 2000-03-16a * No UCE! *-) with SMTP id TAA13835 for ; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:37:04 -0800 Message-ID: <001f01c085b6$b6d183a0$3edf4fd1@magician> From: "Stuart Smith" To: Subject: [freestyle] x-dex and crispy in competition Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:31:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Lon speaking. I do count all x-dex moves as getting one extra add. And I consider crispy moves uniques from their original recipes. Are all the judges out there counting the x-dex and crispy versions or = not??? Just curious. Sloth.--.Out From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:31:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA31231 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:31:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: David Sanchez Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA31278 for ; Sun, 21 Jan 2001 00:32:00 -0800 Received: from Orbspiders@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id o.8c.14ee1d7 (15895); Sun, 21 Jan 2001 03:31:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from web33.aolmail.aol.com (web33.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.9]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v77.35) with ESMTP; Sun, 21 Jan 2001 03:31:12 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 03:31:12 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] two new moves named! To: Cc: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <8c.14ee1d7.279bf850@aol.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yacine wrote <>Also a fairy dlo is known as flog. It means to hit <>somebody right? I'm french canadian and I barely <>speak english but I've been told that's what it means. <>I wanted to call a fairy eggbeater "flic" because it <>means policeman in french and it sounds like fear, <>fudge, flog, etc. <>Here's the notation: <>toe > same out > op out > op out > same toe I think that is a great name if I don't say so myself. I always have thought of policemen to be fairy eggbeaters. It's also a real sick move. Respect to you and anyone who can hit a flic,,, or a toe stall for that matter. Respect to any footbagger for even trying. Keep on shreddin' david sanchez From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:32:16 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA31241 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:32:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dantz.com by chi6sosrv11.alter.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: [63.95.223.88]) id QQjzcv03039 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:15:36 GMT Received: from [63.94.235.214] ([63.94.235.214] verified) by dantz.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3) with ESMTP id 1396343 for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:15:33 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:15:28 -0800 Subject: [freestyle] Re: Footbag on TV From: Tuan Vu To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200101202050.MAA29479@list.footbag.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org It's a Citibank commercial. They've also aired this commercial on NBC last Thursday night (Prime Time!!!). Fortunately, I've got it on tape, so I'll have to digitize the footage and make it available for everyone. _Tuan > Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:41:11 -0600 > From: "Brian Mckenzie" > Subject: [freestyle] Footbag on TV > > I am happy to report that last night I was watching tv when I saw a bank > commercial (CCI or something) with a LONG footbag scene. This guy was > standing in the middle of the street kicking outside and inside kicks for > about 8 seconds. Incidentally, I was talking to Red Husted on the phone > when the commercial came on, so I didn't catch the whole thing. Just thought > I'd mention it, it was on Comedy Central and looked like a national > commercial, not one of those local ones where the guy at the furniture store > has his 7 year old daughter say something at the end and it's all cute and > shit. Has anyone else seen this bank commercial? Later, > Brian From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:33:14 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA31296 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:33:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18226 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 20:46:45 -0800 Received: from pacbell.net ([64.167.12.114]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G7L003E5MFGRN@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 20:42:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 20:41:45 -0800 From: Chris Pinkus Subject: [freestyle] Quantum Whirl To: freestyle footbag Reply-to: deiv0re@footbag.org Message-id: <3A6D0B89.E8098B76@pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have a simple question here. In the quantum whirl, is the first dex miraging and the second dex whirling, or are you doing whirls on both sides? (I know I gotta work on my clippers first!) Chris P. Torque From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 02:36:01 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA31329 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:36:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20496 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:08:26 -0800 Received: from pacbell.net ([64.167.12.114]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G7L00CXRQ6MO3@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:03:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:02:51 -0800 From: Chris Pinkus Subject: [freestyle] UNS add exception? To: freestyle footbag Reply-to: deiv0re@footbag.org Message-id: <3A6D1E8B.2FACD6F2@pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, another question/thought. Well, I know that if you stall anywhere above the waist, its not counted as an unusual surface add, but in the case of a handstand neck stall, your upside-down positioning makes your neck below the waist, so would it get the add? I want to get some more opinions on this. Or maybe the rule should be worded a little differently. Chris P. Torque From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 06:25:20 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA32256 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 06:25:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from f04n01.cac.psu.edu (f04s01.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.31]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21329 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 06:10:53 -0800 Received: from integer.psu.edu (tnt2-165-56.cac.psu.edu [130.203.165.56]) by f04n01.cac.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA128884 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:10:44 -0500 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010124090652.00a709a0@email.psu.edu> X-Sender: awf108@email.psu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:08:28 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Alexander Faber Subject: Re: [freestyle] 2nd Annual Colorado Shred In-Reply-To: <20010122212641.76592.qmail@web11604.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Integergalactic says: >Chad recently busted Surging Barfly and >Flurricane (both super clean) in San Diego, Ahren >hit Your Mom at World's, and in the same circle >Ryan hit Symposium Blurrier, and the list goes >on... Ack!! What the hell is Your Mom? And why is it the phattest named moved since bedwetter? Propz to whomever got to that one first. Alex (Integer of PST) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 18:59:31 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA05581 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:59:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25046; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:59:16 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7O00D01CEFRR@clem.mscd.edu>; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:59:03 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:59:03 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Quantum Whirl In-reply-to: <3A6D0B89.E8098B76@pacbell.net> To: deiv0re@footbag.org Cc: freestyle footbag Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Chris Pinkus wrote: > I have a simple question here. In the quantum whirl, is the first dex > miraging and the second dex whirling, or are you doing whirls on both > sides? (I know I gotta work on my clippers first!) The first dex would be miraging and the second dex would be whirling with the op leg. If you were to do both dexes with the same leg and land on op clipper it would be "Slapping Whirl" (provided there's a plant after the first dex). Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 19:00:01 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05588 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:00:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25327; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:05:03 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7O00D01CO8ZN@clem.mscd.edu>; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:04:56 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:04:56 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] UNS add exception? In-reply-to: <3A6D1E8B.2FACD6F2@pacbell.net> To: deiv0re@footbag.org Cc: freestyle footbag Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Chris Pinkus wrote: > Hey, another question/thought. Well, I know that if you stall anywhere > above the waist, its not counted as an unusual surface add, but in the > case of a handstand neck stall, your upside-down positioning makes your > neck below the waist, so would it get the add? I want to get some more > opinions on this. Or maybe the rule should be worded a little > differently. My personal opinion on this is that anywhere you delay the bag that's not on the inside, outside, or toe of your foot, Should be considered unusual. I remember a time when it was a usual thing for people to delay a bag on their forehead or shoulder or eyesocket, but these days, as far as competition and shredding are concerned, it is NOT a usual place to delay a bag except to get some variety in the routine and an occasional rest for your legs. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 19:00:35 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05605 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:00:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com (bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com [205.145.1.251]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00559 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:52:15 -0800 Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:53:05 -0500 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88477FC9@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Riefer, Robert" To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] styler moving to OR... Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:52:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all- One of our Philly area stylers is moving to Portland OR in March. He doesn't have email or web access so he asked me to inquire to the list to get some friendly kickers for him to contact. He is looking for some crash space and things of this nature when he arrives. Please respond directly if this sort of thing is up your alley, and I will put the two of you in contact with one another. Thanks! Bob Riefer Philly Footworks From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 19:00:57 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05616 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:00:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from wgateout.merant.com ([193.129.81.248]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02685 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:13:52 -0800 Received: from beavmail.merant.com (beavmail.merant.com [10.31.11.235]) by wgateout.merant.com (Build 98 8.9.3/NT-8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00097 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:12:22 GMT Received: by beavmail.merant.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:11:43 -0800 Message-ID: From: Paul Vorvick To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] How to see commercials w/Footbag Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:11:42 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Howdy: Although it isn't on their site yet, got to http://www.adcritic.com . Adcritic posts QuickTime versions of popular television spots. There is a link where you can REQUEST a particular ad. If enough of us go there and ask for the "CitiBank ad with the guy kickin' the hacky sack" maybe they'll post it. I'd recommend this any time an ad featuring footbag runs. While you're there, take time to play the ad titled "John West: Bear Fight." You'll see another kind of kicking... Kick On, Paul V. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 19:01:32 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05629 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:01:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pseudo (c517473-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.20.24.118]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f0OLaJG25910 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:36:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <033e01c0864d$bfc77ea0$0200a8c0@pseudo> From: "Ryan Mulroney" To: References: <200101242050.MAA02581@list.footbag.org> Subject: Re: [freestyle] 2nd Annual Colorado Shred Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:36:42 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eli Piltz wrote: > Hmmm, yeah I think you missed some important > ones, so to fill the gap: Kenny Shults, Peter > Irish, Ahren Gehrman, Ryan Mulroney, Eli Piltz, > Richie Abshire, Eric Windsor, Eric Wulff, Carol > Wedemeyer, and a whole lot more. > I can't make it this year. My family is having a big party for my grandma (the one who is been to the last four world championships) because she is turning 80. So basically I will be down in So Cal when all of the So Cal shredders are in Colorado. Peace out, Ryan Mulroney From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 19:01:50 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05640 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:01:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11604.mail.yahoo.com (web11604.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.56]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA10553 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:56:30 -0800 Message-ID: <20010125005618.83431.qmail@web11604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.129.16.5] by web11604.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:56:18 PST Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:56:18 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] freestyle in the mainstream To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Freestylers from around the world, Eli Piltz here. I want to let you know a few developments in the promotional world of footbag. 1. Aggressive Grounds is highlighted on http://www.sports3.com Sports3 is the main source for action sports online; go to their website and click on "Miscellaneous" to see the latest and sickest action in footbag. Also, take the time to check out some of our cousin action sports; it's all there. Feel free to let Sports3 know what you think of their website, and especially the inclusion of footbag amongst the other action sports which define our lives. 2. Chad Devlahovich, Richie Abshire, and myself just had a shoot with the television show "Planet X". Their main purpose was to highlight Aggressive Grounds and find what's inside the mind of a shredder. It went really well, and it should be on air sometime in February. FYI, this show generates 30 million viewers weekly as it appears on major networks all accross the country. This is only our first installment with Planet X. Find info on where Planet X is available at http://www.planetxtv.com Later shredders, Eli Zohar Piltz p.s. my website should be running in a few weeks. In the mean time, if you are interested in getting your hands on the best freestyle video on the market, chack out http://footbagfreestyle.tripod.com/ From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 19:02:01 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05655 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:02:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11601.mail.yahoo.com (web11601.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.53]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA11173 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:19:42 -0800 Message-ID: <20010125011935.2241.qmail@web11601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.129.16.5] by web11601.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:19:35 PST Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:19:35 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] something to think about To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Stylers, If you have a "weakside", you are WEAK! If you have a "flipside", you are COOL! Eli Piltz From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 24 19:02:18 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05670 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:02:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12252 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:55:17 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7P01E013ZVCI@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:55:07 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:55:07 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] Moves for thought To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have been thinking about some moves for a long time and haven't yet gotten my brain to communicate with the rest of my body enough to try them successfully, but I thought I'd share them with the rest of ya'll to maybe spark some interest or other ideas. Toe Blurry Drifter (not sure if Sunil's hit this) I can't hit that sweet quick quantum set and I picture myself doing it more like a symposium toe blur that bails to clipper. Pixie Symposium toe blizzard There have been so many times when I'm going for smog and my catch foot dexes too much goes right past the bag and I think to myself, why not just try catching it on the op foot. By my calculations (which include xdex) this would be a 6 add toe to toe move. 3 dexes, 1 body, 1 xdex, 1 delay. Same would go for Pixie symposium toe blur. Practice practice. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 25 22:01:44 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14285 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:01:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web10114.mail.yahoo.com (web10114.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.132]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA16749 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:14:23 -0800 Message-ID: <20010125041416.44679.qmail@web10114.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.206.195.83] by web10114.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:14:16 PST Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:14:16 -0800 (PST) From: chris wollick Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag on TV To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org speaking of footbag on TV, in the video game Donkey Kong 64, diddy kong plays hackysack when you make him stand still for a while. and of course there was a few simpsons episodes with kicking in them. -chris From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 25 22:02:28 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14296 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:02:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19365; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:49:44 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7P01K01EUOQP@clem.mscd.edu>; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:49:36 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:49:36 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] UNS add exception? In-reply-to: <3A6FA770.5DDE7028@pacbell.net> To: deiv0re@footbag.org Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Chris Pinkus wrote: > Cool, so then you get the uns add even if its above the waist? I had previously written: > > My personal opinion on this is that anywhere you delay the bag that's > > not on the inside, outside, or toe of your foot, Should be considered > > unusual. I remember a time when it was a usual thing for people > > to delay a bag on their forehead or shoulder or eyesocket, but these days, > > as far as competition and shredding are concerned, it is NOT a usual place > > to delay a bag except to get some variety in the routine and an occasional > > rest for your legs. Now I write: Hold up homy! If we're talking about that hand stand neck stall thing then I (just me in my own opinion) would give it an extra add, but it would be a body add, not an unusual delay add. What I wrote above is also my own personal opinion on what I think should be considered and unusual surface. Though it would be nice it is not the "law of the land". If I were judging I would not give the add because it is only my opinion and not an established rule of competition. I think there are some areas in which Judges have discretionary powers such as "what is unique". Unusual Delays, however, is not one of those areas. If it were, my first beef would be to reconsider moves like Frigid, Dragon, and Anchor. While the delay surface itself it not unusual the contortion to make it happen is quite irregular. Unfortunately the add system was created at a time when so many moves were not yet thought of and rewriting it is not only a complex task in and of itself, but it needs to be understandable to the average Joe AND it will never be accepted by everyone. More opinion: I think it doesn't even need to be rewritten and can simply have some things added to it that will not even make it too hard to understand. Xdex is a perfect example. It's a body concept just like paradox. I also think Unusual surfaces could be expanded as I said, and instead of just being surfaces it could include contortions. I should really shut up now, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 25 22:02:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14309 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:02:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web9007.mail.yahoo.com (web9007.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.128.169]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA26422 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:34:03 -0800 Message-ID: <20010125093357.12824.qmail@web9007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [38.233.72.2] by web9007.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:33:57 PST Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:33:57 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Wilson Subject: [freestyle] difficult 3's To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Would anyone say that there are any 3's that are more difficult than toe blur or atom smasher? Just wondering! Later, Mike ===== Ft. Worth Hackaholics Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 25 22:03:39 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14327 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:03:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from wgateout.merant.com ([193.129.81.248]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05901 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:37:13 -0800 Received: from beavmail.merant.com (beavmail.merant.com [10.31.11.235]) by wgateout.merant.com (Build 98 8.9.3/NT-8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00070 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:35:40 GMT Received: by beavmail.merant.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:34:59 -0800 Message-ID: From: Paul Vorvick To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] More Footbag in the Media Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:34:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Howdy: My wife received her "Title Nine Sports" catalog last night featuring Sam Conlin on the front as well as a shot inside the catalog. Cool! Kick On, Sam! Paul V. P.S. You can order a catalog from www.titleninesports.com but please note guys: any significant woman in your life may wonder why you're receiving a catalog that prominently displays about 10 pages of sports bras. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 25 22:04:38 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14338 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:04:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f261.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.18.136]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13916 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:04:12 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:03:35 -0800 Received: from 132.241.245.241 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:03:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [132.241.245.241] From: "Tara Ohr" To: integer@psu.edu, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Achilles Tendon Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:03:35 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jan 2001 20:03:35.0661 (UTC) FILETIME=[E66B21D0:01C08709] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello ALex and the rest of the footbag community, I hope that your Tendon is feeling better Alex. I am aware that many of us have experienced similar pain that you have spoken about so I hope to clarify some of the technical questions many of us have about Achilles pain and treatment. I have researched some of the symptoms that Alex has referred to and come up with two types of Ankle injuries. Now there are many more out there and everybody will not have the same symptoms or problems so this information is very general. It is best to see a doctor or sport medicine technician because they are much more knowledgeable on the subject, but I will do my best to give some pointers. First of all, Anatomy... (ah man, I HATED that class, why so we have to know this stuff) I know this may be boring info, but it is very important to know how the body is set up. The calf muscle consists of the gastrocnemius and soleus muscles. Both of these muscle come together to form the Achilles tendon, which attaches onto the calcaneus bone(heel bone). In between the Achilles tendon attachment and the heel bone is a small fluid-filled sac(Retrocalcaneal bursa. On the outside of the Achilles tendon is the Achilles bursa. HAve I lost you yet?... no, good. During the repetitive motion of our sport, this area receives tremendous strain and constant pounding. Now, one thing that can happen to the tendon is a tearing or rupture of the tendon. This is not so good. A simple test to see if this is the case... have a friend squeeze your calf muscle while you relax. If the foot does not point, you may have a ruptured tendon. Go see a doctor as soon as you can for treatment. If you can't do that, stop all footbagging and rest for a while. R.I.C.E- Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevate. If you continue to play on a torn tendon eventually you will no longer have a tendon to worry about and forget doing the mobius ever again. This of course is the most severe and if you are still walking with moderate/low pain, it is probably not the case, but it is still important to get it checked out. If there is an inflammation in the area of the heel and Achilles tendon, it might be Retrocalcaneal bursitis or achilles bursitis. This occurs with overuse of the area and the bursa become inflamed with fluid. The best treatment for this is to decrease activity, RICE(explained above), and anti-inflammatory drugs. Commonly known as Achilles tendonitis, tendinopathy has a gradual development of symptoms and the person typically complains of pain and stiffness in the morning, but this diminishes after some activity. The pain comes back several hours after training. The onset of pain is more sudden in partial tears and if this is the case recovery may be longer. These two injuries often occur together in which case the best thing to do is RICE. Massage is also a great way to heal the muscle and relieve some of the tension put on the Achilles tendon. Strength training would be the next step, which will be discussed later. I hope I'm not boring you yet, but I want to cover as much as I can. Some predisposing factors that involve Achilles injuries include: -years of running, or footbag -Increase of activity (4 days of 3 hour sessions) -decrease in recovery time(4 days in a row!!!) -change in surface(concrete is brutal and not at all forgiving) -change in footwear (new shoes that haven't been broken in yet) -Excess pronation (the outside stall) -calf weakness(strength exercises) -poor flexibility(Kenny Shults' movie goes over stretches) -poor footwear(unfortunately Rod's do not have good support for the foot, but you can always purchase insoles or orthopedic inserts STRENGTH EXERCISES Calf raises are the exercise of choice. If pain is too high start with some simple range of motion movements. -My favorite is Spelling the alphabet with your toe. This strengthens all the muscles in the lower leg and increases you dexterity. -CALF RAISE- stand on an elevated surface with both feet, heels as far down to the ground as feasible(without too much pain), then come up to your toes. Keep the amount that you do to a minimum at first, then slowly increase the repetitions that you do. If that is too intense, use the un-injured leg as a balance point and do a modified single calf raise with most of the pressure on the un-injured leg. Slowly add more pressure to other leg as pain permits. If that is too easy, start doing single leg calf raises. Next step would be to start adding weight to your body. Put weight into a back pack and carry it on your back. If you have access to a health club, use the calf raise machine, just be sure that your posture is correct. You don't need a back injury on top of everything else. Happy healing, I hope that I've answered some of your questions. If not, be sure to write me at tararizohr@hotmail.com . Good luck and I'll hopefully see you at a tournament. Keep on kickin; Tara Ohr tararizohr@hotmail.com >From: Alexander Faber >To: freestyle@footbag.org >Subject: [freestyle] Achilles Tendon >Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:27:32 -0500 > >Howdy stylers, > >Has anyone every experienced severe pain in the Achilles Tendon from >shredding too hard? I pushed 3 hour sessions for 4 days in a row last >week, and my Ach. T. hasn't been the same since. Most mornings when I wake >up it seems okay, but throughout the day I develop a feeling that it's >grating on something in my ankle (it sort of creaks when I point and flex >toes). Also, I get this shooting pain when I put my foot in the clipper >position and flex it like I'm about to delay the bag. Any tips on this >aside from not shredding for a few days or seeing a doctor (both of which >are fairly horrible thoughts in my opinion)? > >Incidentally, this has me really pissed off because I hit my first 5-add >(Mobius) a couple days ago, and now I have to lay low for a few days. > >One last thing. . .spinning dyno seems to be the logical rewind of mobius. >. .has anybody hit these two in combination yet? > > Shred on, > Alex (Integer of P.S.T.) > [Currently on the disabled list] From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 25 22:05:19 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14357 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:05:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web4601.mail.yahoo.com (web4601.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.105.156]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA20980 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:00:53 -0800 Message-ID: <20010125230041.3257.qmail@web4601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.97.2.242] by web4601.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:00:41 PST Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:00:41 -0800 (PST) From: john kingi Subject: [freestyle] Footbag on the bus To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Kickers, Johnny here. Haven't posted for awhile, I've been travelling our little country in the South Pacific called New Zealand to catch up and kick with Ryan Mulroney and Steve goldberg amoungst others. First up I'd like to say cheers to both for making the trip to New Zealand as well as Carl ?(sorry dude forgot your last name) and Matt Baker from Aussie. fun kicking with you all. On the subject of footbag on tv I'm sure you've already discussed this in the past but there was about a 2 minute scene in a movie called "she's all that" featuring footbag (Clippers, osis, etc) Also I haven't as yet seen it but I heard that one of the more recent Star Trek movies featured a whole lot of kids kicking. And finally here in New Zealand a young band showed themselves kicking in one of there music videos and a smokefree add features a photo of a young guy hitting a trusty old jester, this add is in many of our city's busses. Cheers all. Later Johnny (Redeemer) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Jan 25 22:52:47 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14509 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:52:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f241.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.241]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02782 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:41:01 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:40:24 -0800 Received: from 128.148.191.142 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:40:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.191.142] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] difficult 3's Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:40:24 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jan 2001 06:40:24.0685 (UTC) FILETIME=[DCC581D0:01C08762] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi stylers, Michael Wilson asked: >Would anyone say that there are any 3's that are more >difficult than toe blur or atom smasher? A bunch really, just have to think creatively. Double in-spinning frigidosis anybody? Play footbag! CF From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 27 21:08:48 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA27778 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:08:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web803.mail.yahoo.com (web803.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.63]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA17128 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:15:56 -0800 Received: (qmail 24715 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Jan 2001 05:15:49 -0000 Message-ID: <20010127051549.24714.qmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [172.129.157.66] by web803.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:15:49 PST Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:15:49 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Lon Smith wrote: > You do not get paradox if you spin. BUNK ASS!!! Tell me marius is a 5 add move! Tell me spinning PARADOX whirl is a 4. No way! I won't believe it. Spinning pdx whirl is soooo hard. Soooo hard! I think blurry symp whirl weakside is easier than spinning pdx whirl. SOOOO HARD!!! Bye, James From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 27 21:09:13 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA27783 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:09:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA17566 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:30:24 -0800 Received: (qmail 22882 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Jan 2001 05:30:17 -0000 Message-ID: <20010127053017.22881.qmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [172.129.157.66] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:30:17 PST Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:30:17 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag on TV To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Brian Mckenzie wrote: Has anyone else seen this bank commercial? Yeah, it's awsome! Looks like a real footbag he's using too. Not a crochet hippy sack. This commercial comes on all the time when I'm watching Jay Leno and Connan O'bri----en. God I love that show. Later, James From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 27 21:09:48 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA27800 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:09:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web218.mail.yahoo.com (web218.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.118]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA19169 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:20:28 -0800 Message-ID: <20010127062021.20514.qmail@web218.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.0.224.35] by web218.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:20:21 PST Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:20:21 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zerbe Subject: Re: [freestyle] difficult 3's To: Michael Wilson , freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I would say that there are many threes out there that are more difficult that toe blur and atom smasher. I think double inspinning anything is just one of many. how about spinning ducking double whammy? Or inspinning diving op side double whammy? double ducking toe stall? triple inspinning kick? triple around the world kick? Backfliping outside stall but do the outside in front of you, like a dragon but not crossbody???? The list could go on and on. Just use your imagination. There are no limits. Alex Zerbe I hit "flipside" mobius today and I'm happy with that. (am I cool now, Eli?) --- Michael Wilson wrote: > Would anyone say that there are any 3's that are > more > difficult than toe blur or atom smasher? Just > wondering! > > Later, > Mike > > ===== > > > > > > Ft. Worth Hackaholics Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 27 21:28:35 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA27976 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:28:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web9006.mail.yahoo.com (web9006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.128.168]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA27081 for ; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 03:00:52 -0800 Message-ID: <20010127110045.74076.qmail@web9006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [38.233.72.2] by web9006.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 03:00:45 PST Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 03:00:45 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Wilson Subject: [freestyle] move name To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I couldn't find the name for pixie ducking osis. Can someone please enlighten me? Thanks, Mike ===== Ft. Worth Hackaholics Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 27 21:33:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28034 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:33:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA06860 for ; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:29:51 -0800 Received: (qmail 10842 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Jan 2001 19:29:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20010127192944.10841.qmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [172.129.65.98] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:29:44 PST Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:29:44 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] UNS add exception? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Chris Pinkus wrote: > Hey, another question/thought. Well, I know that if > you stall anywhere > above the waist, its not counted as an unusual > surface add, Naw bro, I think it is counted as unusual surface. It's just not counted as a stall. (But I could be wrong and I usually am.:)) > but in the > case of a handstand neck stall, your upside-down > positioning makes your > neck below the waist, so would it get the add? Haha! That's awsome. I gotta see that. Bye, James From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 27 21:34:06 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28045 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:34:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA10647 for ; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:30:09 -0800 Received: (qmail 7073 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Jan 2001 22:08:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20010127220857.7072.qmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [172.128.239.72] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:08:57 PST Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:08:57 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: [freestyle] horsefly To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sup list, I like to hit nuclear other clipper and call it horsefly. I hit horsefly> blurry whirl. :) It's really just a joke-type move but, ah, I like the name. Later list, James From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 27 21:43:09 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28146 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:43:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail22.bigmailbox.com (mail22.bigmailbox.com [209.132.220.199]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04244 for ; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 09:58:42 -0800 Received: by mail22.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA16538; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 09:58:26 -0800 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 09:58:26 -0800 Message-Id: <200101271758.JAA16538@mail22.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [12.79.199.74] From: "Joon Chung" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Achilles Tendon Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'd watch for stress fractures also. I got mine from too much running, working, and footbag(symposium stuff is especially rough). Always give your legs a break and remember to ice even if it doesn't hurt! Joon From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 27 21:58:21 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28298 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:58:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f245.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.245]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25327 for ; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:46:54 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:46:17 -0800 Received: from 211.216.216.95 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 05:46:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [211.216.216.95] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 05:46:17 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2001 05:46:17.0847 (UTC) FILETIME=[A254D870:01C088ED] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >--- Lon Smith wrote: > > You do not get paradox if you spin. James Risden replied: >BUNK ASS!!! >Tell me marius is a 5 add move! Tell me spinning >PARADOX whirl is a 4. No way! I won't believe it. >Spinning pdx whirl is soooo hard. Soooo hard! I >think blurry symp whirl weakside is easier than >spinning pdx whirl. SOOOO HARD!!! I personally find spinning whirl just slightly harder than paradox whirl, but that's beside the point. I personally feel that paradox traditionally describes dexterity windows. Originally just a blanket term, then defined down, and now we're trying to broaden it again although still missing many moves ("paradox" twirl, atom smasher, ect.). The whole spinning thing is about momentum and dex fullness, which doesn't even make affect spinning whirl btw. Marius is not more difficult because there is a dexterity window (although one could underspin and so create one), it's difficult because the dexterity is full where as mobius is half, and because of the rather brutal change in momentum. Doing spinning butterfly to torque is kind of the same momentum effect. I personally think the whole ADDs thing should just be scraped, but that's just me. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 27 23:11:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA28914 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:11:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (ha2.rdc2.tx.home.com [24.14.77.21]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27213 for ; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:00:54 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([65.10.4.236]) by mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010128070042.QTOC28991.mail.rdc2.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:00:42 -0800 Message-ID: <3A73C273.8A5AD25C@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 00:55:47 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > >--- Lon Smith wrote: > > > > You do not get paradox if you spin. > > James Risden replied: > > >BUNK ASS!!! I would have to agree with James here. As for his examples... read on. Andrew McCargar wrote: > > I personally find spinning whirl just slightly harder than paradox whirl, > but that's beside the point. I personally feel that paradox traditionally > describes dexterity windows. Originally just a blanket term, then defined > down, and now we're trying to broaden it again although still missing many > moves ("paradox" twirl, atom smasher, ect.). And here, I would have to agree with Andrew. Spinning paradox whirl isn't one of the harder 5s. One of the great masters once told me that pdx whirl isn't *really* paradox... it just gets the add as a bonus. So, from this point of view, pdx whirl is one of the easier 4s. Spinning paradox whirl is one of the easier 5s. > The whole spinning thing is about momentum and dex fullness, which doesn't > even make affect spinning whirl btw. Marius is not more difficult because > there is a dexterity window (although one could underspin and so create > one), Hmmm... I don't think it is so much about underspinning that makes the move hard. I would say that the difference in mobius and marius *is* the harder dex window. To me, spinning moves deserve paradox. Sure, spinning pdx whirl is pretty weak when it comes to the paradox part of the move... but, lotus and marius are *much* harder than vortex and mobius. The window is tighter, and the change in momentum completes the paradox. and then Andrew McCargar wrote: > > I personally think the whole ADDs thing should just be scraped, but that's > just me. It's not just you, buddy. Wouldn't it be nice if someone came up with something better? Anyway, take it easy. I'll keep trying to hit some of these moves I've been talking about :) With any luck, I'll throw some out there at the Symposium. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Jan 27 23:14:55 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA28966 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:14:55 -0800 Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28963 for ; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:14:55 -0800 Received: from llic.net (llic.net [209.125.90.2]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27620 for ; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:12:10 -0800 Received: from [210.55.20.102] (vpn-24-16-30-198.corp.home.net [24.16.30.198]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA18700 for ; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:11:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: Host vpn-24-16-30-198.corp.home.net [24.16.30.198] claimed to be [210.55.20.102] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.21 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3A73C273.8A5AD25C@dallasfootbag.org> References: <3A73C273.8A5AD25C@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:11:30 +1300 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello? Is this thing on? Steve At 12:55 AM -0600 1/28/01, Derric Scalf wrote: > > >--- Lon Smith wrote: >> >> > > You do not get paradox if you spin. >> >> James Risden replied: >> >> >BUNK ASS!!! > >I would have to agree with James here. As for his examples... read on. > > >Andrew McCargar wrote: >> >> I personally find spinning whirl just slightly harder than paradox whirl, >> but that's beside the point. I personally feel that paradox traditionally >> describes dexterity windows. Originally just a blanket term, then defined >> down, and now we're trying to broaden it again although still missing many >> moves ("paradox" twirl, atom smasher, ect.). > > >And here, I would have to agree with Andrew. Spinning paradox whirl >isn't one of the harder 5s. One of the great masters once told me that >pdx whirl isn't *really* paradox... it just gets the add as a bonus. >So, from this point of view, pdx whirl is one of the easier 4s. >Spinning paradox whirl is one of the easier 5s. > > >> The whole spinning thing is about momentum and dex fullness, which doesn't >> even make affect spinning whirl btw. Marius is not more difficult because >> there is a dexterity window (although one could underspin and so create >> one), > >Hmmm... I don't think it is so much about underspinning that makes the >move hard. I would say that the difference in mobius and marius *is* >the harder dex window. To me, spinning moves deserve paradox. Sure, >spinning pdx whirl is pretty weak when it comes to the paradox part of >the move... but, lotus and marius are *much* harder than vortex and >mobius. The window is tighter, and the change in momentum completes the >paradox. > > >and then Andrew McCargar wrote: >> >> I personally think the whole ADDs thing should just be scraped, but that's >> just me. > >It's not just you, buddy. Wouldn't it be nice if someone came up with >something better? Anyway, take it easy. I'll keep trying to hit some >of these moves I've been talking about :) With any luck, I'll throw >some out there at the Symposium. > >-Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 28 09:36:57 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA32192 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:36:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f261.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.240.38]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA00731 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:51:50 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:51:41 -0800 Received: from 211.216.216.40 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:51:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [211.216.216.40] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Shoe Modifications Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:51:40 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2001 09:51:41.0169 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA1D7E10:01C0890F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello one and all, I just finished a page describing how to modify ordinary sport shoes for footbag. http://members.nbci.com/NemesisDS/freestyle/shoemods.htm It contains illustrations of some of my shoes and hopefully should be enough to get you started. Please DO NOT modify any shoes you aren't prepared to lose (or, at least don't hold me responsible). Cheers -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 28 09:37:17 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA32197 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:37:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.118]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06176 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 06:30:12 -0800 Received: from storefull-614.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-614.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.34]) by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id 51AC626EE9 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 06:29:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by storefull-614.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id GAA24605; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 06:29:50 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUApZORmMTr/w56PKd6nHSo3HaXcyMCFQC1jE9HPp8XNrmz7WRyAtCWyOWMQg== From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:29:49 -0500 (EST) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Tour de Michigan Message-ID: <14559-3A742CDD-1383@storefull-614.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Next stop on the Tour de Michigan? My hometown of Ann Arbor on the U of M campus on February 10th at 12:00. If you have any questions or want more info, write me or go to; www.michiganfootbag.org See ya at The Colorado Shred Symposium! gf From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 28 09:37:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA32215 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:37:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dns1.provide.net (root@dns1.provide.net [216.86.64.33]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10365 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:26:03 -0800 Received: from provide.net (usr05-091.provide.net [216.86.67.91]) by dns1.provide.net (8.9.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24909 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 12:25:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A707932.4050808@provide.net> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:06:04 -0500 From: matt craig User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17 i686; en-US; 0.7) Gecko/20010105 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS References: <3A73C273.8A5AD25C@dallasfootbag.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derric Scalf wrote: > And here, I would have to agree with Andrew. Spinning paradox whirl > isn't one of the harder 5s. One of the great masters once told me that > pdx whirl isn't *really* paradox... it just gets the add as a bonus. Pdx whirl not really paradox??? Could the "great master" chime in and explain that to us if he/she is reading this? What that really makes me wonder is how all the people who use the term paradox on this list plan to define it. It seems anyone can use it to mean anything convenient to them at the time?? from the paradox faq description: http://www.footbag.org/facts/show?id=946841719 "...(this implies that paradox moves are always set from a cross-body, because it's the snaking motion that partly defines what a paradox is) ... Consider that since the motion was "in-out", you had to really get your leg around the bag when doing the dexterity. This is *part* of what makes the move harder than the non-paradox version of the same move.] ... ****** Therein lies the paradox -- in freestyle footbag, it has always been the common thinking that "the set doesn't affect the difficulty". But we all know it does for "paradox" moves. **** " So that supports the idea that, at least, pdx whirl is pdx, no? (ignore the fact that I left our the parts of the FAQ that didn't support the argument.) matt From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 28 11:45:57 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA32569 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:45:57 -0800 Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32566 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:45:56 -0800 Received: from llic.net (llic.net [209.125.90.2]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13788 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:43:10 -0800 Received: from [210.55.20.102] ([24.16.30.205]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA20655 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:43:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: Host [24.16.30.205] claimed to be [210.55.20.102] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.21 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3A707932.4050808@provide.net> References: <3A73C273.8A5AD25C@dallasfootbag.org> <3A707932.4050808@provide.net> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:42:59 +1300 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I wouldn't claim to be "the great master" (that's Kenny), but I wrote a long message all about this issue to this list only a few messages into the thread about a week ago. Nobody but Kenny replied. I'll repost it if enough people are interested. That posting was meant to be the seminal message in a renewed discussion of paradox and other difficulty-related issues, as I think I articulated pretty well some breakthroughs in my own thinking of difficulty. Please go re-read it and reply on that thread if you have follow-up comments. The subject was "Paradox spins". The date on the message was Sun, 21 Jan 2001 00:05:18 +1300 (though I sent it Saturday, 20 January, for most of you, since I'm still in New Zealand and it's a day later here). Steve At 2:06 PM -0500 1/25/01, matt craig wrote: >Pdx whirl not really paradox??? >Could the "great master" chime in and explain that to us if he/she >is reading this? What that really makes me wonder is how all the >people who use the term paradox on this list plan to define it. It >seems anyone can use it to mean anything convenient to them at the >time?? From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 28 13:14:35 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00478 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 13:14:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (ha2.rdc2.tx.home.com [24.14.77.21]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15357 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 12:32:11 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([65.10.4.236]) by mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010128203159.WEAF28991.mail.rdc2.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 12:31:59 -0800 Message-ID: <3A74808D.C76622B5@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 14:26:53 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox spins (was: Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS) References: <5f.fa0c1dc.2797062b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve Goldberg wrote: > > spinning in no way negates the paradox > concept. Paradox describes > additional difficulty of a dexterity, which is no different in a > spinning move (when executed correctly) than with a non-spinning move. > > What makes paradox paradox is by definition not the set. It's the > motion you must do (not the motion you *could* do, but the one you > *must* do) to hit the "harder" dexterity. suffice it > to say that the closest definition of paradox is a "cross-body > dexterity in front of you, which makes it "the long way around"). Hello Steve and all. I didn't reply to your message because it seemed like you had it all down. Your description of the three move components (set, motion and end) is right on. As far as spins negating paradox, I thought this was settled a while back. Spins do NOT negate the paradox component of a move. Any move that can be done paradox can be done spinning paradox. (They can also be done ducking paradox, stepping paradox (blurry), barraging paradox (furious), etc.). Now. I've got a beef. The current "definition" of paradox asserts that any paradox move must be set from clipper. I would say that toe set spinning moves deserve paradox as much as their clipper set counterparts. There ya go. And to those xdex people... does the xdex replace paradox? Or does it compliment paradox? I've heard both ways. Please get back to me on this one in private email. Thanks. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 28 13:26:04 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00539 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 13:26:04 -0800 Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00536 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 13:26:03 -0800 Received: from llic.net (llic.net [209.125.90.2]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17167 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 13:23:17 -0800 Received: from [210.55.20.102] ([24.16.30.205]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA20709 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 13:23:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: Host [24.16.30.205] claimed to be [210.55.20.102] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.21 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3A74808D.C76622B5@dallasfootbag.org> References: <5f.fa0c1dc.2797062b@aol.com> <3A74808D.C76622B5@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:23:03 +1300 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox spins Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:26 PM -0600 1/28/01, Derric Scalf wrote: >Now. I've got a beef. The current "definition" of paradox asserts that >any paradox move must be set from clipper. No, the current "definition" of paradox is a cross-body dexterity in front of you, which makes the dexterity "the long way around". Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 28 14:16:37 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00758 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 14:16:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18295 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 14:10:09 -0800 Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ("port 4120"@webmail.mscd.edu [147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7W01DD688BBE@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:09:47 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:02:16 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] Is This Move Paradox? To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3A4C0CAE@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This was a bit of a debate down at Texas State and I didn't think about it again until the whole pdx thread started here. Is this move paradox? Clip> op out> same in> op toe. I personally think it is like doing a pdx version of tapping mirage. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 28 15:36:22 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01067 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:36:22 -0800 Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01064 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:36:21 -0800 Received: from llic.net (llic.net [209.125.90.2]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20649 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:33:35 -0800 Received: from [210.55.20.102] (vpn-24-16-30-195.corp.home.net [24.16.30.195]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA20730 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:33:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: Host vpn-24-16-30-195.corp.home.net [24.16.30.195] claimed to be [210.55.20.102] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.21 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3A4C0CAE@webmail.mscd.edu> References: <3A4C0CAE@webmail.mscd.edu> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:33:17 +1300 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Is This Move Paradox? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 3:02 PM -0700 1/28/01, Brad Kaplan wrote: >Is this move paradox? > Clip> op out> same in> op toe. > I personally think it is like doing a pdx version of tapping mirage. Man, please be careful when writing Jobs' notation. You put "op out" to "same in" but obviously you meant "op out dex" to "op in dex" because you didn't mean that the same foot does both out and in dexes in sequence, did you? "op" and "same" always refer to the element immediately preceeding. Now I'm not sure whether you meant op toe or same toe, either. And you didn't explain which dex you're wondering about, but I can assume you mean the second one. I'm also basing this post on my assumption about what you mean, so if my assumption is wrong, the reasoning below will not apply. Whew, ambiguity when people post questions without clarifying their meaning can suck. :-) So, anyway, here's my answer: Remember my earlier post about prefixes (though note, prefixes can only work with the set on its way *up*). Using the four-part notation I contrived in my previous post about prefixes, we can rewrite the move you describe as: (0) clip (1) op out dex PREFIX (bag on its way up) (2) op in dex (main part of move) (3) op toe Then, rewriting this without the prefix (the test for paradoxness): (0) clip (1) no prefix (2) same in dex (main part of move) (3) op toe This latter move is *obviously* paradox mirage. Therefore, when executed this way, the former is also paradox (since element #2 is identical). Clearly, with the set going straight up off the clipper, the dexterity leg doing the in-out dex has to do a cross-body dexterity in front of the support leg, regardless of whether you do a prefix dex with the opposite foot while the bag's on its way up out of the clipper. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Jan 28 18:50:44 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01799 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:50:44 -0800 Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01796 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:50:43 -0800 Received: from llic.net (llic.net [209.125.90.2]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25969 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:47:56 -0800 Received: from [210.55.20.102] (vpn-24-16-30-196.corp.home.net [24.16.30.196]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA20769 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:47:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: Host vpn-24-16-30-196.corp.home.net [24.16.30.196] claimed to be [210.55.20.102] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.21 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <3A4C0CAE@webmail.mscd.edu> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:47:39 +1300 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Is This Move Paradox? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:33 PM +1300 1/29/01, I wrote: >Man, please be careful when writing Jobs' notation. Heh heh. Thanks to Derric I now see what Brad was referring to. The proper job's would be: clip > op out dex (plant) > same in dex > op toe My bad for not realizing you were just missing that all-important (plant). Okay, *this* is a *great* move for discussing paradox. First of all, my previous post doesn't have any meaning for this move (though the process I went through is very useful for others if you have similar questions). :-) Unfortunately, this planting move really challenges the earlier definition I made of "prefix" sets, because it introduces the concept that the prefix can change the configuration of your body in relation to the bag before the middle part of the trick. Whereas all my other-mentioned prefixes leave it alone. See, by planting (somewhere I'll resurrect my old treatise never-before-seen on plants and steps), even if you're not putting your full weight on the plant foot (I call that a "touch" in my treatise), you're moving your otherwise easy foot to the hard side (cross-body in front of you). If you look at your feet just after you finish the tapping prefix, you'll see that, as the bag begins its descent, since you had to put your weight on your setting foot as soon as the bag began on its way up, your legs are crossed. So, when starting the middle part of the move, your tapping leg now has to go the long way around to get out of this configuration. Therefore, my gut (without spending the time now to really think about this) is that said move is paradox, but for entirely different reasons than in my previous post. Instead, it's paradox (again, just my gut) because the end of the tap motion left your leg extended in a cross-body position in front of you, forcing you to do the return dex cross-body. But again, I'll have to think about that one. Feel free to posit any arguments you have on it. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 29 23:06:30 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07941 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:06:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from warspite.cnchost.com (warspite.concentric.net [207.155.248.9]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19917 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 14:58:30 -0800 Received: from quintus.richandsharon.org (quintus.rich-and-sharon.org [208.176.194.190]) by warspite.cnchost.com id RAA11582; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:58:17 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.10] Message-ID: <004a01c0897d$d0e72360$bec2b0d0@richandsharon.org> Reply-To: "Eric Reile" From: "Eric Reile" To: References: <3A73C273.8A5AD25C@dallasfootbag.org> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chilly Philly Sauce = 9 ADDS Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:58:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Everybody, I have personally always felt that paradox whirl doesn't really feel paradox. My main reason for this is that the move doesn't return back to the original set side of the body like most other paradox moves. It is definitely harder than a regular whirl, but that doesn't make it paradox. I feel if a move like paradox whirl gets a paradox add, then moves like clipper set same pick up and paradox reverse whirl should too. (I personally find paradox reverse whirl harder than paradox whirl) Anyways that is just my opinion, I'll let you guys mull over it. See ya'll at the shred symp. Eric Reile Chicago Inner Circle PS - Lately I've been working on a fairy spinning set, and it's going well. I was wondering if anyone else does this set, or any other set/spin combos, such as stepping and nuclear inspinning. This is the new era. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 29 23:07:02 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07951 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:07:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f35.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.35]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20314 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:17:07 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:16:39 -0800 Received: from 139.80.123.34 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 23:16:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.34] From: "jono heyes" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] facile footbag and lavers , 4dex? Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:16:39 +1300 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2001 23:16:39.0426 (UTC) FILETIME=[5E1EA620:01C08980] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, i'm after a facile foobag. Anyone willing to get rid of an 32 panel( no holes) i'm willing to pay you 10$ for your troubles. To all the makers, i'd be keen to get some quotes. Also is there anyone with some size 8-8 1/2 lavers? And just a query has anyone ever landed a 4 dexterities? Cheers Jono From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 29 23:07:29 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07961 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:07:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f179.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.179]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24237; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:42:22 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:41:46 -0800 Received: from 130.132.70.184 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 01:41:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [130.132.70.184] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "KeN Somolinos" To: brat@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Is This Move Paradox? Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:41:45 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jan 2001 01:41:46.0168 (UTC) FILETIME=[A3BE0B80:01C08994] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everybody, My ultimate opinion on Paradox is the same as my opinion on adds. Difficulty is very often subjective, and therefore unquantifiable. Wulff's x-dex system gives a good approximation of move difficulty, but paradox is so abstract that there are still holes in the system. Under the current definition of paradox, the set matters more than the dexterity. Let me explain. The paradox add for Blur, fury, and spike hammer is the same, regardless of how many extra non-spin components occur between the clipper set and the "paradox" mirage. Under this system, pdx is awarded entirely based on where the move is set from, and not where the pdx dex occurs. Assuming anybody follows this, let's look at Nuclear Torque. There are two possible nuclear torques, one which starts and ends on the same foot (props to Eli for actually hitting this), and one which starts and ends on different feet (think pdx tapping torque). Now, under the traditional pdx definition, Eli's nuclear torque receives a single pdx, for the first dex, but does not receive a pdx for the second dex. This is very strange, because after the nuclear set, the bag is on the "far" side of the body, so in order to torque with the non-setting leg, one has to effect a large hip-pivot, which seems more "paradoxish" than a regular paradox torque. The other nuclear torque (let's call it pdx tapping torque, "PTT" for short) on the other hand, would receive two paradox adds under the old system, even though it is (easily) arguably less difficult and "paradoxish" than Eli's nuclear torque. Let me explain. PTT would get a pdx add for the nuclear set, just like Eli's nuclear torque, but under the old paradox system, it would receive a second paradox add for the second dex. Why? Because PTT is just a pdx torque with an extra dexterity in front of it, sort of like Blurry Torque. It just happens that the first dex involves a pdx as well. Looking at this move closely, one can objectively say there is less of a hip-pivot required to get the second dex of PTT than Eli's Nuclear Torque, because the bag is on the "close" side of the body to get the torque. I wonder if anybody followed all this... My point? I just wanted to point out that paradox is an extra hip pivot which makes a move harder to execute. I am arguing that this hip pivot often times has nothing to do with the original set, especially when several other components occur between the set and the arguably paradox component of the move. The second dex in both nuclear torques is either paradox or not because of the hip pivot required to get the dex, which in their respective cases has less to do with what foot originated the move, and more with what add components directly preceded the dex. I won't be at the shred sympsium, but I can explain this better in person. Hopefully I'll make westerns. In any case, just as people recognize what is a cool move or not, I think most people also recognize what is a difficult move for themselves and for others. At worlds I was impressed by Brian Fournier's game, and he was throwing in Bubba Mirages in his guiltless runs. I recognized that that move was harder than osis or butterfly, and I remember thinking "hey, that's stylish" and not "2 add move: lame." Just some thoughts. Ken Somolinos From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 29 23:09:35 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07975 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:09:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f41.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.41]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07777 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 03:23:46 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 03:23:09 -0800 Received: from 149.225.171.161 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:23:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [149.225.171.161] From: "Fabian Kollakowski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Worlds 2000 - Impressions Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:23:09 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jan 2001 11:23:09.0539 (UTC) FILETIME=[DBDA0B30:01C089E5] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org sorry guys, server's down, i'll let you know when it's back up... fabian >now who's the man again ? > >http://www.fortunecity.de/wolkenkratzer/pentium/614/demos/test1.mpg > >fabian > >p.s.: sorry about the file size, quality is kinda good though. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 29 23:12:11 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07988 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:12:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from smtp2.knology.net (user-24-214-63-12.knology.net [24.214.63.12]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA15040 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:29:19 -0800 Received: (qmail 10528 invoked by uid 1003); 29 Jan 2001 16:31:40 -0000 Received: from user-24-214-85-170.knology.net (HELO oemcomputer) (24.214.85.170) by user-24-214-63-12.knology.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2001 16:31:40 -0000 Message-ID: <000c01c08a10$6f23c960$aa55d618@knology.net> From: "Ben Scarborough" To: Subject: [freestyle] heel stalls Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:27:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org does setting a move from a heel stall make it unique? for example, stall on your right heel behind you, set the bag up through your legs and then catch it on a left butterfly delay. heel>same in dex>same out dex>op clip Or am I dead wrong? ben scarborough augusta footbag From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Jan 29 23:12:39 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08001 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:12:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28379 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:59:13 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7Y02T0156HX2@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:59:05 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:59:05 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Is This Move Paradox? In-reply-to: <3A4C0CAE@webmail.mscd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Brad Kaplan wrote: > Is this move paradox? > Clip> op out> same in> op toe. > I personally think it is like doing a pdx version of tapping mirage. Man, I'm a moron. I wrote the wrong Job's as everyone can tell I'm sure. This is what I meant: Clip> same out (plant)> same in> op toe. Both dexes are done with the same leg, there is a plant after the first dex and it comes back over for the second dex. Sorry about the confusion. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 30 10:25:29 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09972 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:25:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from f04n07.cac.psu.edu (f04s07.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.35]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12964 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:06:19 -0800 Received: from psu.edu (tnt1-161-217.cac.psu.edu [130.203.161.217]) by f04n07.cac.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA154472; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 04:06:06 -0500 Message-ID: <3A76AE06.E5A92429@psu.edu> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 04:05:26 -0800 From: Kaiser Ahmad X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jono heyes CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] facile footbag and lavers , 4dex? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, Jono. I don't know if many people will be willing to part with a facile 32 panel footbag for only $10.00. Usually people pay $20.00 to $30.00 for them, especially with no holes, but maybe you will get lucky and there will be someone willing to do that for you ( I wish I could, but I'm a selfish bastard). If I were you and I was willing to spend up to $10.00, I would get a Paul Mestas bag. They are very cheap, and very good bags (in my opinion). I have a couple of facile bags (most of them with holes), and I have one Mestas bag. I love my facile bags, but I also love to kick with my Mestas bag every now and again. I say "now and again" because I don't have access to it at the moment; My girlfriend will not give it back to me; She loves it too much to let it go. It's a great bag. I might just have to get another one. Also, about your quadruple dex question, so far two moves have been hit (that have been publicly declared on the list. Shooting star (shooting down double down, or shooting barfly, depending on where you want to place the bag in your mind after the set) and shooting paradox double legover (paradox to some, but not to others, whatever... not a big deal cause it's still a dope move). Last I heard, Genzu was working on pixie paradon swirl. Personally, I would like to see an attempt at barraging paradox barrage. I know it sounds impossible, but so does nemesis, and the difference between barraging paradox barrage and nemesis is the same as the difference between a blurriest and a blurrage. However, I do think that a blurrage is a little harder than a blurriest (again, just my opinion). We'll see. Maybe one day in the far future when people are working on seven dex moves they will be able to hit barraging paradox barrage at will. Okay, sorry for blabbing so much. I'll stop. Peace out. LordKay (NYFA) Soze (PennStateTrio) jono heyes wrote: > Hey, i'm after a facile foobag. Anyone willing to get rid of an 32 panel( no > holes) i'm willing to pay you 10$ for your troubles. > To all the makers, i'd be keen to get some quotes. > Also is there anyone with some size 8-8 1/2 lavers? > And just a query has anyone ever landed a 4 dexterities? > Cheers Jono From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 30 10:26:06 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09984 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:26:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web9010.mail.yahoo.com (web9010.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.128.172]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA13933 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:29:53 -0800 Message-ID: <20010130092946.21766.qmail@web9010.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [38.233.72.2] by web9010.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:29:46 PST Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:29:46 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Wilson Subject: [freestyle] move name and tips! To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org 1st: O.K. I didn't get a name for pixie ducking osis, so I thought I'd make a suggestion. How about Pokis? If there isn't a name for fairy ducking osis, it could be Hokis. Just a suggestion. 2nd: The tips section for the move list seem to help me out a lot, but there are none for most of the 4's and 5's. Could some of you crazy kickers out there please post tips for some of the more difficult moves. That's it for now. Later, Mike ===== Ft. Worth Hackaholics Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 30 10:38:43 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10082 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:38:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29665 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:25:03 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G7Z03P01N5H79@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:24:53 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:24:53 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] heel stalls In-reply-to: <000c01c08a10$6f23c960$aa55d618@knology.net> To: Ben Scarborough Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, Ben Scarborough wrote: > does setting a move from a heel stall make it unique? > for example, stall on your right heel behind you, set the bag up through > your legs and then catch it on a left butterfly delay. > heel>same in dex>same out dex>op clip > Or am I dead wrong? Tough question. I don't know the answer for sure, but I'd say it depends on the judge and the move. I've set heel pixie butterfly and heel pixie mirage. I'd say those are unique from toe set. Is toe set torque unique from clipper? I'd say yes. Is each way of setting butterfly unique from the other.....mmmmmmaybe. Rippin' would say yes to the latter and sometimes I'm inclined to agree with him. What about drop in moves. Is dropping into a torque unique from clipper or toe set? Again it's a tough question and it often depends on the move and the judge. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 30 23:56:32 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA14231 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:56:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11603.mail.yahoo.com (web11603.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.55]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA10938 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:54:53 -0800 Message-ID: <20010131005446.92663.qmail@web11603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.129.16.5] by web11603.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:54:46 PST Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:54:46 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Is This Move Paradox? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Stylers, I don't normally comment on paradox discussions, but since "my" nuclear torque was used as reference, I better clear up something. pre-message disclosure: adds are not difficulty. Okay, paradox tapping torque as it's called does not get two paradox adds because *this* nuclear set is only half of a nuclear set. I don't even call it "nuclear", I call it "tapping"; it's just from clipper. It really is not paradox (not an opinion of difficulty). You do half of the s-curve, instead of the whole enchilada, as in Nuclear sets. However, the set does not nullify paradox from a second dex, like a drifter, whirl, etc. I don't feel like writing anymore about paradoxness. Bye. unrelated post-message disclosure: reverse whirl is only hard when you don't skool it; it's technically easy and not paradox. Eli Piltz From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 30 23:56:49 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA14236 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:56:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11608.mail.yahoo.com (web11608.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.60]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA11139 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:58:50 -0800 Message-ID: <20010131005843.32772.qmail@web11608.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.129.16.5] by web11608.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:58:43 PST Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:58:43 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] moves in SoCal To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Shredders, I just wanted to make a few move announcements from Southern California: pdox symp DLO = nova blurry symp DLO = supernova Gyro symposium DLO = novacaine (like Flurricane) Gyro symp whirl = whirlicane clipper set tapping pdox whirl = hurl symposium tomahawk = mullet That's all for now, Eli Piltz From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Jan 30 23:56:19 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA14226 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:56:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net (IDENT:root@donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08518 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:47:16 -0800 Received: from [207.160.174.20] ([207.160.174.20] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 432046 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:43:10 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:48:05 -0600 Subject: [freestyle] Does the set matter? From: Derrick Fogle To: Freestyle Listserve Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Duh. Of course the set matters. If you examine body mechanics, there is no doubt that a different set means your body starts in a different position, and has to move differently to end up in a certain ending position. The degree if difference between any one set and another is open to interpretation. I'll only open that can of worms (and bait the hook). 8-{) The real problem is that neither our judging system, nor probably judge's brains, can handle the huge number of 'unique moves' that is possible when the set is considered. So to simplify things, we say the set doesn't matter. It allows judges to only need to identify up to about 50 unique moves in 2 minutes. Of course, the first case freestylers ran into where the difference in move difficulty because of the set was striking enough, we took to hacking the judging system to accommodate it. Thus Paradox was born. Paradox should simply be an add awarded for any move whose set makes the execution "X More Difficult" than some other set (like the more contemporary X-Dex add). It would save the impossible task of defining paradox to be some particular body movement or whatnot. Someday, when moves can be digitized into Job's notation real-time and fed into a computer, we can finally consider the set. All we need to do is drastically alter (lower) how much value is placed on each unique move. -Derrick "Funky Chicken" Fogle -Still studying at the old school footbag U From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 31 09:21:40 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18210 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:21:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Kenny Shults Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA01702 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 04:53:40 -0800 Received: from KenShults@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id z.6c.756f4f2 (17531) for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:52:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6c.756f4f2.27a964ab@aol.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:52:59 EST Subject: [freestyle] Enough with the names To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'd like to suggest that the term Gyro be reserved for tricks that involve a clipper set to a back spin to an inside-out dex with the set leg done without a plant as in mobius and vortex (somebody that does Jobs please translate for me). In my view you can't have a Gyro symposium unless there's another dex. And what's the deal with all this trick naming. Cool it please. Us old guys have enough trouble keeping track of all the names for new categories like atomic, pixie, fairy, nuclear, much less all the individual move names. Kenny From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 31 09:22:04 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18215 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:22:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f77.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.77]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06267 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:12:28 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:11:51 -0800 Received: from 128.206.120.240 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:11:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] moves in SoCal Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:11:51 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2001 15:11:51.0716 (UTC) FILETIME=[23BB9640:01C08B98] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Eli Piltz >pdox symp DLO = nova >blurry symp DLO = supernova >Gyro symposium DLO = novacaine (like Flurricane) >Gyro symp whirl = whirlicane >clipper set tapping pdox whirl = hurl Very nice names. >symposium tomahawk = mullet Excellent name!! Later Ian D. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Jan 31 10:30:25 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA18432 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:30:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12748 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:24:44 -0800 Received: from [144.92.122.155] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id MAA18010 (8.9.1/50); Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:24:23 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.20010131122316.00864100@students.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mklewand@students.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:23:16 -0600 To: Kenny Shults , freestyle@footbag.org From: Matthew Kain Lewandowski Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names In-Reply-To: <6c.756f4f2.27a964ab@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Kenny wrote: >And what's the deal with all this trick naming. Cool it please. Us old guys >have enough trouble keeping track of all the names for new categories like >atomic, pixie, fairy, nuclear, much less all the individual move names. I couldn't have said it better myself. The idea the every possible move, executed from every possible surface, and landing on every possible surface needs a distinct name is a tad silly. Let's be happing calling a fairy miraging inside stall a "fairy miraging inside stall". It doesn't need to be called an "Armageddon Death Bringer" or a "Samurai Showdown Blood Child" (I am starting to feel like I am at a Sci Fi convention). Glad to hear that I'm not the only one who thinks this. My two cents Matt Kain Shred the Frozen Tundra