From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:18:15 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26238 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:18:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f207.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.207]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28601 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:17:56 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:17:19 -0800 Received: from 211.216.216.99 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 00:17:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [211.216.216.99] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 00:17:19 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2001 00:17:19.0889 (UTC) FILETIME=[573E7810:01C08BE4] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The esteemed Kenny Shults wrote: >I'd like to suggest that the term Gyro be reserved for tricks that involve >a clipper set to a back spin to an inside-out dex with the set leg done >without a plant as in mobius and vortex That would be a tad silly as gyro (or gyro butterfly, if you will), the move the set was named for, would no longer qualify. >And what's the deal with all this trick naming. Cool it please. Us old > >guys have enough trouble keeping track of all the names for new > >categories like atomic, pixie, fairy, nuclear, much less all the > >individual move names. I agree, and I don't agree. The sheer volume of named tricks is such that it's nearly impossible for an individual to keep up. On the other hand, some of the moves are getting so outrageously complex that the "technical names" are becoming totally unwieldy. I remember trying to give a move by move commentary of a BAP schred circle on camera at 97' worlds. It's more than hard enough when all the tricks are only one word. Just something to think about. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:17:00 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26231 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:17:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f37.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.37]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18663 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:22:32 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:21:56 -0800 Received: from 128.148.191.142 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:21:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.191.142] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "KeN Somolinos" To: mklewand@students.wisc.edu, KenShults@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:21:55 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2001 21:21:56.0014 (UTC) FILETIME=[D68694E0:01C08BCB] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, > >Kenny wrote: > > >And what's the deal with all this trick naming. Cool it please. And Matt Kain Lewandowski wrote: >It doesn't need to >be called an "Armageddon Death Bringer" or a "Samurai Showdown Blood Child" My personal favorite was Ernest Crvich's proposal to rename "toe stall" "corpsegrinder." CF From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:19:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26256 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:19:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web220.mail.yahoo.com (web220.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.120]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA03154 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:14:41 -0800 Message-ID: <20010201031434.43370.qmail@web220.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.0.224.35] by web220.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:14:34 PST Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:14:34 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zerbe Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: Kenny Shults , freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <6c.756f4f2.27a964ab@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Kenny and the List, --- Kenny Shults wrote: > I'd like to suggest that the term Gyro be reserved > for tricks that involve a > clipper set to a back spin to an inside-out dex with > the set leg done without > a plant I don't feel this way. I think the term gyro should be used to mean back spin from any set and then execute a trick on that particular side of your body. Let me explain. I feel this way because the definition you want to use would make things much more complicated. What would we call gyro moves with a plant? What would we call gyro clipper? gyro butterfly (the first move to be called gyro)? gyrosis, gyro legover, and many other established tricks. Also with your definition of gyro, gyro swirl would actually be a spinning clipper with the extra swril dex, and what I believe should be called gyro swril would not really have a name because you couldn't really call it gyro or spinning. > > And what's the deal with all this trick naming. Cool > it please. Us old guys > have enough trouble keeping track of all the names > for new categories like > atomic, pixie, fairy, nuclear, much less all the > individual move names. I agree. But if we keep the definition of gyro broad, we can keep some move name simple, at least the gyro ones. So Kenny, what do you think, does my point have some validity to it?? Let me know. Thanks, Zerbe From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:21:27 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26270 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:21:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f311.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.18.186]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03518 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:21:29 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:20:52 -0800 Received: from 132.241.246.120 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 03:20:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [132.241.246.120] From: "Tara Ohr" Subject: [freestyle] paradox refraction To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:20:51 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2001 03:20:52.0324 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB2AB240:01C08BFD] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello everyone I usually don't participate in shred talk, but Austin was asking me about a trick that I need some clarification with. What is a paradox refraction in Jobs and how many adds is it? Thanks from Austin and myself (that kid is back and he has the bug bad!!!!!!!!!! :-) tara From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:22:49 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26283 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:22:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web217.mail.yahoo.com (web217.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.117]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA03836 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:31:23 -0800 Received: (qmail 15535 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Feb 2001 03:31:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20010201033116.15534.qmail@web217.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.0.224.35] by web217.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:31:16 PST Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:31:16 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zerbe Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: Kenny Shults , freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <6c.756f4f2.27a964ab@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey again, I'm sorry to post a second e-mail, but I just thought of another revelant example. When Lon hit mobius to mobius at western regionals '99 he plants on the second mobius. Would you say then that he didn't really hit it because when he planted the move wasn't really gyro and therefore not a mobius? I understand why you say a gyro move with a plant can't be gyro. I think that this is a minor technicality and shouldn't be taken into consideration, just for the sake of simplicity. I definitly think that if you can do a move, gyro or otherwise, without planting that it makes it much more stylie. But I do think that this is just an issue of style and shouldn't be taken into consideration when naming or defining moves. Opposed to symposium when the plant actually changes the nature of the move. So Kenny, tell me what you think about Lon's mobius' and all this other useless babble. Zerbe From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:23:00 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26294 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:23:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Kenny Shults Received: from imo-r19.mx.aol.com (imo-r19.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.73]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03759 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:30:43 -0800 Received: from KenShults@aol.com by imo-r19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id z.6.118afb90 (4206) for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:29:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6.118afb90.27aa3235@aol.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:29:57 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have to correct my recommendation on Gyro. I mistakenly suggested that the dex only be inside out but the only real important factor to me that makes the trick Gyro is not planting the setting foot before the spin and dex whether the dex is inside out or outside in doesn't matter. Sorry about the confusion. To Brad's question about Big Apple my answer would be no it's not Gyro because in Big Apple you plant the set foot before the dex, and since you planted the set foot it can't be Gyro. Kenny From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:23:37 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26306 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:23:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Kenny Shults Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.5]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04508 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:52:54 -0800 Received: from KenShults@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id r.95.6516496 (4206); Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:51:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <95.6516496.27aa375f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:51:59 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: zerbalicious@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I would have to say there's no such thing as a mobius with a plant. Mobius has no plant, therefore you can't do mobius to mobius with a plant. I guess I'd call it mobius to spinning torque (still a huge combo). I'd have to disagree about the lack of the plant being purely a style issue and doesn't change the move. For me it changes the move dramatically and is in fact the essence of the Gyro family. It really kind of surprised me when I heard people using Gyro to describe tricks that weren't Gyro (according to what I had thought was a fairly old and stable trick category definition). From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:38:24 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26362 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:38:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1203.mail.yahoo.com (web1203.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.139]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA04659 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:58:19 -0800 Received: (qmail 20617 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Feb 2001 03:58:12 -0000 Message-ID: <20010201035812.20616.qmail@web1203.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.66.70.204] by web1203.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:58:12 PST Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:58:12 -0800 (PST) From: Joel Dion Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list. The last thing I thought I would ever do is disagree with my hero Kenny (I am not necessarily disagreeing with him.) and I don`t expect everyone to agree with me , but under the assumption that every opinion counts... I love all the move naming and encourage a different name for every move. I think it is great sign of how fast our sport is growing , and can do nothing but benefit us in the long run. You can`t have too many names just like you can`t have too many moves. If we stop inventing new tricks THEN we can stop naming them. There was discussion on this list a while back about ways to make our sport more " main stream ." Promotion of our stars ,making of quality videos ect... I think this is one of the ways to make our sport more interesting to more people. To always have another move or name you can learn would be cool. The sooner you`ve figured out everything there is to know about something the sooner you lose interest. People (especially young people) WANT to buy Kenny Shults and Ryan Mulroney posters, they WANT kick ass videos and I think they would LOVE to be able to order the "2005 Official Moves of Footbag" booklet with over 1000 named moves. What better way to show the world how complex and colorful our sport is , or how creative its athleats are. I want to be able to tell people in explaining the difficulties and intricacies of our sport ..." Did you know the record for consecutives is____ there are ____ clubs in ____ different countries and there are currently ____ different official named moves that can be performed in freestyle footbag." For all these numbers the bigger the better. Some people say they don`t want to have to learn all the move names. They don`t have to. Just like they don`t have to learn how to hit every move. As it stands now there are probably few people who know the names for all the moves that are on the list. It`s still cool to be able to look up the Fairy Mirage you just hit and find out it`s called Fear. And besides , most names are variations of each other and have been well thought out, eg. Fear/Smear , Fudge/Smudge , Nova/Supernova/Novacaine to Flurricain I could go on and on. I think it`s only fair that we should be able to tell somebody the name of the move we just hit , or suggest a name if it does not have one yet. We`ve been doing a good job so far. :) O.K. I`m done. Thank You / Merci Joël Dion Hackrifice From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:38:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26377 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:38:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f81.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.81]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20042 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:49:16 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:48:39 -0800 Received: from 172.163.214.119 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:48:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [172.163.214.119] From: "jon nagela" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:48:39 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2001 21:48:39.0719 (UTC) FILETIME=[92688B70:01C08BCF] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, I also noticed on the dfc movelist that toe set spins are being called gyro if the dex is done with the opp leg from the setting foot, ex. right foot fairy set, counterclockwise spin, left leg mirage dex. To me that motion isnt gryro but should be called spinning whether it is from toe, pixie, or fairy. The gyro type move from toe is actually inspinning, ex.right foot fairy set, clockwise spin, and right leg dex. Inspinning paradox is also very possible from toe sets. I also recently started hitting a move that deserves a name because it is too looong a name- Paradox reverse miraging cross body rake, or Royal rake. Later, Jon Nagela >I'd like to suggest that the term Gyro be reserved for tricks that involve >a >clipper set to a back spin to an inside-out dex with the set leg done >without >a plant as in mobius and vortex >And what's the deal with all this trick naming. Cool it please. Us old guys From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:41:40 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26429 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:41:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02759 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:01:19 -0800 Received: from seamore.excite.com ([199.172.148.163]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010201030041.SVQB11387.fortune.excite.com@seamore.excite.com> for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:00:41 -0800 Message-ID: <1895987.980996441702.JavaMail.imail@seamore.excite.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:00:41 -0800 (PST) From: Yacine Merzouk To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Montreal Windchill - Feb. 10-11 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 64.228.242.71 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello freestyle world! This is Yacine writing about the upcoming Windchill tournament in Montreal, Qc, Canada. We will have a great freestyle tournament this winter. We already have 5 confirmed open competitors including Sebastien Duchesne and yours truly. We expect between 15 and 20 competitors to show up overall and about 10 more stylers who'll be here just for the kick of it. If you live within driving distance (12hours?) you definitely want to attend. All the freestylers here have sharpened their blades in prevision of the competiton February 10-11. I've heard we have decent net players too in the city. :) -Yacine From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:42:43 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26459 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:42:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f137.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.137]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29683 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:42:10 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:41:34 -0800 Received: from 139.80.123.34 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 00:41:33 GMT X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.34] From: "jono heyes" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] ducking swirl set? Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:41:33 +1300 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2001 00:41:34.0067 (UTC) FILETIME=[BA006C30:01C08BE7] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm curious to know if i'm wasting my time trying to duck a swirl set, has anyone ever performed such a feat? From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:56:30 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26560 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:56:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com (bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com [205.145.1.251]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09738 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:39:06 -0800 Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 17:39:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88478069@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Riefer, Robert" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Enough with the names Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 17:39:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Kenny wrote: >>And what's the deal with all this trick naming. And Andrew wrote: >I agree, and I don't agree... On the >other hand, some >of the moves are getting so outrageously complex that the >"technical names" >are becoming totally unwieldy. I also agree and disagree. While I think all the naming has at times gotten out of hand, the idea of naming *is* to make things simpler. I think the problem might be when twenty names are proposed at once... You'd need to carry around a cheat sheet to remember all of those new names! I can barely keep my shoes, footbags, socks, and shorts in one place, let alone a cheat sheet for footbag names! :-) I thought we were doing pretty good when people would write in after hitting a new move, and proposing a name for that ONE move. There aren't twenty new moves being created and hit daily, so keeping to this sort of naming schedule would be much easier to keep up with. My $1.50. Bob Riefer Philly Footworks From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 15:14:35 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26676 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:14:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f115.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.115]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10785 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:02:35 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:01:58 -0800 Received: from 199.249.158.70 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 23:01:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [199.249.158.70] From: "pete irish" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Names,names,names Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:01:58 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2001 23:01:58.0615 (UTC) FILETIME=[FAC48E70:01C08CA2] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "The name that can be spoken is not the true name" -Lao Tzu Tao Te Ching From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 09:33:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29059 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:33:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (ha1.rdc2.tx.home.com [24.14.77.20]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13799 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:16:27 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([65.10.4.236]) by mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010202001609.IIZP26394.mail.rdc2.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:16:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3A79F8DB.37CE4AB9@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:01:31 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Zerbe CC: Kenny Shults , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro References: <20010201031434.43370.qmail@web220.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > --- Kenny Shults wrote: > > I'd like to suggest that the term Gyro be reserved > > for tricks that involve a > > clipper set to a back spin to an inside-out dex with > > the set leg done without > > a plant Alex Zerbe wrote: > > I don't feel this way. I think the term gyro should be > used to mean back spin from any set and then execute a > trick on that particular side of your body. Let me > explain. I feel this way because the definition you > want to use would make things much more complicated. > What would we call gyro moves with a plant? What would > we call gyro clipper? gyro butterfly (the first move > to be called gyro)? gyrosis, gyro legover, and many > other established tricks. > Also with your definition of gyro, gyro swirl would > actually be a spinning clipper with the extra swril > dex, and what I believe should be called gyro swril > would not really have a name because you couldn't > really call it gyro or spinning. And I write: I totally agree with Alex here. Names only get complicated and, dare I say, necessary when you have such restrictive names of concepts (sets and such). Why can't you do a gyro set from a toe, outside or any other surface? Why can't you hit a gyro clipper? Why can't you plant before a dex in gyro moves? I say that you can. This is just my opinion. I've been all about making move names simple from the beginning. This starts by naming move components in a logical, methodical way. -Derric ----- End forwarded message ----- From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 09:33:45 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29064 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:33:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (ha1.rdc2.tx.home.com [24.14.77.20]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17452 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 17:52:26 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([65.10.4.236]) by mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010202015214.JCHR26394.mail.rdc2.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 17:52:14 -0800 Message-ID: <3A7A0F5E.1218A344@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 19:37:34 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] paradox refraction References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tara Ohr wrote: > > What is a paradox refraction in Jobs and how many adds is it? No such thing as a paradox refraction. It looks cool and all, but the original contact for a refraction is in front of you (or at least not entirely in the x-bdy position). The bag is carried to a cross body position after the delay. Paradox requires the contact to be in the x-bdy position. Keep hittin them though... good looking moves. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 09:35:14 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29089 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:35:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25512 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 22:04:04 -0800 Received: from billy ([63.199.201.87]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G8400M0I8C3QY@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 21:52:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 21:55:32 -0800 From: Sam Colclough Subject: [freestyle] sharing rooms at the symposium To: Freestyle Mailing List Message-id: <008c01c08cdc$c1408a20$9b66fea9@billy> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority: 3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm looking for 2-3 people to split the cost of a room with me at the host hotel for the shred symposium. I;m predicting 2 beds.. 2 people in a bed 2 people on ground.. We rotate each night. I don't mind sleeping head to toe with someone else in a bed.. but that's just me.. so.. respond privately please. Rooms are like 80 or so ... so after we all split price it should be very cost effective. Don't forget to train!! heheh -sam oops - Sam Colclough OOPS! Footbag Club Hermosa Beach http://www.penny-lane.com/oops From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 09:40:04 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29111 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:40:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from r2t0w6 ([24.69.36.80]) by mail1.rdc2.bc.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010202055540.GSFZ25505.mail1.rdc2.bc.home.com@r2t0w6> for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 21:55:40 -0800 Message-ID: <003001c08cdd$3673e580$50244518@gvsa1.bc.wave.home.com> From: "Allan Haggett" To: References: <6c.756f4f2.27a964ab@aol.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 21:58:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I like having names for moves, the [small]problem I have is with trying to make them "official" in some way. One of my favorite analogies has always been of that of Freestyle to the guitar. With each complicated finger placement defining a chord[move], a series of chords[moves] put together writes a song[string/combo/routine]. Musicians name songs, not necessarily the individual chords that make it up(even truly innovative ones). How hard you strum can be as defining as the chord being strummed. Of course writing the music down[and therefore nomenclature] is of great importance, but not to the expense of making it so hard to read from area to area that no-one would ever be able to decipher something written in Finland over something written in So.Cal. Almost all of the component parts of all these 'named' moves have been defined already, and are widespread(Thanks Steve G., Adrian Dick, Damian Coventry, and Stuart MacFerson for the original moves list, and to Derric for his work with it :)). This not to say that you shouldn't name the individual moves you are hitting; that's fun and creative and lends itself to personalities of the individual's tying these moves up. This doesn't necessarily take away from the fact that these moves are made up the element's that are predefined, either. To illustrate the point: I've read many times on this list about moves hit in combo's that were given a 'name', but I didn't know what it was until someone else clarified it with Job's or a description(a common complaint on this list - what is 'Your Mom' anyway??). Many times I've also been hitting said move and didn't know it was 'called' that. Point being, that if you want to name a move you shouldn't just remove any reference to it's prefixes when trying to communicate it(especially over as vague a medium as an e-mail) until it's been widely accepted as an agreed upon name(using our limited means, for better or worse). Certainly, if someone were to hit an incredible new combo of prefixes that opened up doors for other moves based on it, then a name is definitely in order(SAUCE. (Hey Kenny, how about 'Gyro-Blurry' based moves being 'Saucy' ;) ), but these are more concepts than individual moves. At any rate, this wasn't meant to be a rant..... if you wanna name a move, name it, post it, cooool.... I love to read about shit like that; it's inspiring. I will always make time to read about it sooner or later. It's pretty easy to delete something if you don't like the subject as well. Ask Steve, there's nothing "Official" about this list anyway :) Peace, Allan H. http://footbag.dnsalias.net - a few new toys are up and running :) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 09:40:42 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29122 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:40:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ra.nilenet.com (ra.nilenet.com [204.227.31.1]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07171 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:14:16 -0800 Received: from nilenet.com (slip147.den.nilenet.net [206.247.97.170]) by ra.nilenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/12202000-01) with ESMTP id JAA12120 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:14:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3A7ADC57.48B6D5E6@nilenet.com> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:12:07 -0700 From: Daryl Genz Reply-To: genzu@footbag.org Organization: Revolution Footbags X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freestyle@footbag.org" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The esteemed Andrew McCargar wrote: > The esteemed Kenny Shults wrote: > > >I'd like to suggest that the term Gyro be reserved for tricks that involve > >a clipper set to a back spin to an inside-out dex with the set leg done > >without a plant as in mobius and vortex > > That would be a tad silly as gyro (or gyro butterfly, if you will), the move > the set was named for, would no longer qualify. I've always been under the impression that the term "gyro" mis-originated from the move originally called whirling gyro, which is now known as gyro whirl. After this, people started using gyro to name all sorts of things, like gyro butterfly. It seems that we're pretty much stuck with the name as it is now...? (But read on). As far as the planting vs. non-planting on gyro goes, I feel that if the person that invented it wants to define it - then that's how it should be defined - that's basically the standard rule - you hit it, you name it (of course, that's under debate as well ;-). I'm pretty sure it was Rippin, Kenny, and Pete?? or others? that were around when it was invented. Pete has already spoken (rather wisely, IMHO). So what do the inventors say? Just take into account that Kenny is the only person (?) that feels that a plant nullifies the gyro. That's all I got for now. Peace! Daryl From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 09:41:02 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29133 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:41:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web5305.mail.yahoo.com (web5305.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.106.114]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA11679 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:20:45 -0800 Message-ID: <20010201232038.18945.qmail@web5305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.79.223.60] by web5305.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 15:20:38 PST Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:20:38 -0800 (PST) From: lon smith Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <20010201035812.20616.qmail@web1203.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list, Joel Dion wrote: > you know the record for consecutives is____ there > are > ____ clubs in ____ different countries and there are > currently ____ different official named moves that > can > be performed in freestyle footbag." For all these > numbers the bigger the better. It is true that those numbers should be huge. And move names save time when describing shreds. > most names are variations of each other and have > been > well thought out, eg. Fear/Smear , Fudge/Smudge , > Nova/Supernova/Novacaine to Flurricain I could go on > and on. Great examples. I wrote in some similar stuff like doubbleparker parkwalk parkdown dimmiest dimwalk dimdown blurrier sidewalk stepdown blurriest ripwalk curbwalk I think it is this very type of naming that has made me try to think of new move variations. All the really related names help my brain when I'm trying to warm up all my skills to go guiltless and tripless. The more names the better. Sloth Out From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 09:45:39 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29159 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:45:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matthew Cross Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11031 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:09:15 -0800 Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id z.bc.fce0019 (5708); Thu, 1 Feb 2001 18:08:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from web30.aolmail.aol.com (web30.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.6]) by air-id04.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:08:32 -0500 Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:08:32 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] ducking swirl set? To: , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org jono, You're never wasting your time trying to improve your game or invent a new set ;) Maybe rippin's hit it? What are you trying to hit it to? From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 10:38:42 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29311 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:38:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net (IDENT:root@donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11859 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:12:34 -0800 Received: from [207.160.174.20] ([207.160.174.20] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 433629 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:08:20 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:13:42 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] paradox refraction From: Derrick Fogle To: Freestyle Listserve Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3A7A0F5E.1218A344@dallasfootbag.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org on 2/1/01 7:37 PM, Derric Scalf at derric@dallasfootbag.org wrote: > No such thing as a paradox refraction. It looks cool and all, but the That would mean there's no such thing as a paradox mirage, either. It would be the exact same move, except caught on the inside instead of the toe, and with a carry tacked on the end. Anyway, is the paradox part of a paradox torque really any different than the paradox part of a paradox refraction? I don't really think so. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 11:41:19 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29537 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:41:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Kenny Shults Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13889 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:25:50 -0800 Received: from KenShults@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id z.42.1035d412 (17526) for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:25:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <42.1035d412.27ac6395@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:25:09 EST Subject: [freestyle] Gyro To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I can't believe I'm alone in thinking that Gyro can't have a plant. You turn your head for three and a half years and all hell breaks loose - Gyros without plants, Atomic this and Nuclear that, Fairies and Pixies co-mingling. What's the world coming to? Kenny Shults From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 11:58:07 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29573 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:58:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1306.mail.yahoo.com (web1306.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.156]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA14497 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:45:23 -0800 Received: (qmail 3108 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Feb 2001 19:45:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20010202194516.3107.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.30.145.205] by web1306.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:45:16 PST Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:45:16 -0800 (PST) From: ERiC WiNDSoR Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: freestyle@footbag.org Cc: Kenny Shults In-Reply-To: <6c.756f4f2.27a964ab@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Kenny Shults wrote: > And what's the deal with all this trick naming. Cool > it please. Since I started kicking I've dreamed about inventing a new move. Imagine the challenge! Most moves had already been invented and to actually hit a move that had never been hit would be a very difficult task. When someone does hit a move for the first time now-a-days imagine the pride they must feel because it was a phat move. They are very excited and want to feel the joy of actually naming a move. They want to add some sort of creativity to the sport and feel apart of it. Its like a personal singnature. I feel that way about Novacaine, I'm sure Big Add feels that way about Flurricane, Sunil for Boulder Beater, etc. I realize some of the trick names might sound stupid and you may not like them, but it should be allowed to keep the spirit of freestyle "free". I'm very sad that you shuned eli's post in fact, becase I'm happy about inventing a move and naming it. I figured you would be proud of individuals who have hit new moves as your speach at the end of Tricks of the Trade suggested we do. So great, the first move I invent gets trash talked by one of the people I looked up to the most. If a person wants to name a trick after its technical composistion then so be it. And I dont think we should go back a give a nifty name to tricks that have been deemed thechnical (We shouldn't rename moves like blurry whirl, stepping torque, etc.). As far as gyro w/plant being invalid is funny to hear because imagine all of the renaming of moves you would have to do! But first you would actually have to distinguish what moves fall under each catagory. I just don't understand. So a Gyro whirl would be gyro, but a "gyro" sympos. whirl wouldn't be? Well what is it then, Spinning? Lon's Mobius to Mobius-w/plant was explained to be Mobius to Spinning torque, but I thought that spinning meant a back spin to a move done on the same side as the set-side. Example :Spinning-torque vs. Gyro-torque seems like The dexes should be the same as Spinning-mirage vs. Gyro mirage, two established moves. Why then would Spinning-mirage be Spinning-mirage, but a Gyro-torqe-w/plant be a Spinning-torqe. So is a Gyro-mirage with a plant now spinning mirage. No, because spinning mirage is already a different trick just as Gyro-whirl-w/plant can't be spinning Whirl becasue Spinning Whirl already exists. IMO if the loopholes in a suggested concept/move are this dramatic then the idea should not even be considered. At least until its explained in a matter which makes sence, doesn't have loopholes, and isn't contradictory of other already established concepts/moves. Eric Windsor From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:43:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30791 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:43:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11604.mail.yahoo.com (web11604.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.56]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA20269 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:37:16 -0800 Message-ID: <20010202223709.47329.qmail@web11604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.129.16.5] by web11604.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:37:09 PST Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:37:09 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Stylers, I'm going to keep this short and simple. I like things to be simple. Gyro (and other terms) has surpassed the original, limited definition. I talked in depth with Rippin' on the phone about the planting consideration in gyro (coincidentally weeks ago). We agreed that the term is currently only to distinguish moves, otherwise known as a "concept". If it's limited to not planting, then it is only a "name". Fact is, we have "names" for many gyro moves (vortex, mobius, mantis, etc), hence the term gyro would only be useful as a descriptive "concept". Concepts have much more importance than names. Redefining the current concept of gyro is like redefining paradox, and I know we don't want to go there. Hit new moves, name new moves. Eli Piltz From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:45:37 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30802 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:45:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11602.mail.yahoo.com (web11602.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.54]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA20429 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:40:28 -0800 Message-ID: <20010202224022.23983.qmail@web11602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.129.16.5] by web11602.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:40:22 PST Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:40:22 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Aggressive Grounds video in PAL To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Freestylers, I just want to let you know that the newest,best freestyle video "Aggressive Grounds" is available in PAL format for all you non-North Americans. Email me if interested. ezshredz@yahoo.com Eli Piltz Zohar Productions From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:46:11 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30813 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:46:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Kenny Shults Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20653 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:48:52 -0800 Received: from KenShults@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id r.e0.fd6e47e (18404); Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:48:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:48:09 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: foot_bag@yahoo.com CC: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eric, I would like to personally apologize for any disrespect you interpreted in my post on trick naming. Just to clarify, I am not opposed to to trick naming in principal but it has seemed to me lately that there has been a rush to put unique names to every possible trick. If you reserve the naming to the really cool innovative new tricks then they have that much more impact. I was never all that concerned with the names of tricks I made up. Double around the world, whirling swirl, double leg over, osis (stole the name and concept from Frisbee), spinning osis, double spinning osis, etc. aren't the most creative names as you can see. I just find it easier to follow the lingo when you only need to know the base tricks and modifiers. Anyway, I am sincerely sorry if my comments stifled any enthusiasm or creativity. You are absolutely right that creating a new trick is something to be extremely proud of. In fact, it's really the most interesting thing in freestyle for me. Kenny Shults From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:46:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30824 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:46:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from r2t0w6 ([24.69.36.80]) by mail2.rdc2.bc.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010202225644.KEX10676.mail2.rdc2.bc.home.com@r2t0w6> for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:56:44 -0800 Message-ID: <003901c08d6b$af2c3160$50244518@gvsa1.bc.wave.home.com> From: "Allan Haggett" To: References: <20010202194516.3107.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:58:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eric wrote: >I'm sure Big Add feels that > way about Flurricane, Sunil for Boulder Beater, etc. > I realize some of the trick names might sound stupid > and you may not like them, but it should be allowed to > keep the spirit of freestyle "free". I'm very sad > that you shuned eli's post in fact, becase I'm happy > about inventing a move and naming it. I figured you > would be proud of individuals who have hit new moves > as your speach at the end of Tricks of the Trade > suggested we do. So great, the first move I invent > gets trash talked by one of the people I looked up to > the most. Kenny is simply frustrated with so many names being 'announced' that it's hard to keep track of. *And it is*. Eric, your post further illustrated what I meant in my previous post on this thread(or rather the one of the same title but w/out the /gyro). Boulder Beater???? enlighten me.... no one has answered me on what the hell 'Your Mom' is yet as well...Y'all have undertaken to name these cool new moves you're hitting, without giving thought to A)the newbie who hasn't a clue what language we are all talking(and doesn't have a hope to at this rate) B) The Players who aren't within your circle that may or may not have been hitting these moves before you, and C) The Players who aren't hitting these moves, missed your post about the new 'name' (or forgot that 'that' was what it was called) and don't have a clue what the hell you are talking about when you refer to it without any explanation of what it is. Again, Boulder Beater??(not ever even refered to on this list before that I can remember) Your Mom??? Beyond Cryptic. I had to go back and look at Sunil's post to understand what the hell Novicaine was(Gyro(or spinning for Kenny)-Symposium-DLO)... Case in point, I've hit Novicaine as far back as two years ago, when I was bailing out of Amadeus(Gyro DaDa) :)... YES, it was symposium, though I didn't know it at the time(nor did I know that gyro-dada was called Amadeus until World's 2000). I *know* Amadeus isn't symposium. I tried it that way, hence the bail out of it into Novicaine.... Eric also wrote: >(We shouldn't rename moves like blurry whirl, stepping torque, etc.). Wasn't stepping torque named GraveDigger by Tuan Vu? Screw this typing business.... I'm going out to Shred!! Allan http://footbag.dnsalias.net From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:48:15 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30854 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:48:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from deborah.paradise.net.nz (deborah.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.32]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23403 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:16:06 -0800 Received: from omen (203-79-64-139.adsl.paradise.net.nz [203.79.64.139]) by deborah.paradise.net.nz (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f130Fpx04842; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 13:15:51 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <001a01c08d76$acdebdf0$4d050505@omen> From: "damian coventry" To: "Kenny Shults" , References: <42.1035d412.27ac6395@aol.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gyro Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 13:17:20 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id QAA30153 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenny Shults" To: Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 8:25 AM Subject: [freestyle] Gyro > I can't believe I'm alone in thinking that Gyro can't have a plant. You turn > your head for three and a half years and all hell breaks loose - Gyros > without plants, Atomic this and Nuclear that, Fairies and Pixies co-mingling. > What's the world coming to? > > Kenny Shults > you're not alone on this one kenny. i remember when adrian and i started the move list database for footbag.org and i specifically remember tapping in spyro gyro. i remember becoz adrian and i had a hard time trying to describe a "gyro butterfly swirl". soon after we had a few (unsuccessful) attempts and doing the action for the gyro bit with a footbag. i remember thinking how difficult it was at the time becoz there was no plant, that's the bit that made spyro gyro a true five imo, i believe it was the first 5 adder we put in the database that we heard had been hit (by rippin i believe). gyro has no plant, if you're planting you're doing something else, that doesn't mean it's not worthy, it just means use a different word to discribe it other than gyro. damian From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:48:55 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30865 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:48:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA27647 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:22:32 -0800 Received: (qmail 11231 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Feb 2001 02:22:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20010203022221.11230.qmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [172.143.223.58] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 18:22:21 PST Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:22:21 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] Does the set matter? To: Derrick Fogle , freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Derrick Fogle wrote: > Duh. > > Of course the set matters. YES!!! THE CHICKEN HAS SPOKEN!!! Later, James From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:49:16 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30876 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:49:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f258.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.133]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29058 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:13:19 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:12:43 -0800 Received: from 152.163.213.179 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 03:12:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.213.179] From: "Bryan Fournier" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Footbag Celebrities Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 19:12:42 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2001 03:12:43.0181 (UTC) FILETIME=[2C70E5D0:01C08D8F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everybody... I just had to share this with y'all. I was walking to my Biology class yesterday at my school, Cal State Fullerton... when, half-asleep, i hear this voice calling "hey hacky sack guy!" at first i thought oh god i'm hearing voices, but atleast theyre talking about something i'm familiar with....but then i heard it again...this time i turned around and saw this guy ear-to-ear smiling at me... i was like whoa, 9 o'clock in the morning on a remote part of the the campus, i thought about the last time i was in a situation like this: people calling you out in odd places...and i thought back to junior high....then i thought oh great this is where i get my ass beat. But surprisingly he was serious, he wasn't making fun of me or anything it turned out he was a footbagger that had come to one of our circles on campus the semester before and he recognized my lavers... so like all meetings of fellow footbaggers we talked about where he lived and who he kicked with but what stopped me cold was a question I'll never forget... well into the conversation, as we're talking about pretty basic stuff like stalls and what not the guy goes... "Hey, Do you know the Torch?" My jaw friggen dropped... this guy approaches me... out of nowhere, pops that question...so I told him the torch's "alias" then the conversation broke into a familiar discussion about other footbag players, who all, from his reaction, seemed like celebrities... pretty soon he was asking me about Toby1... i was totally stunned. Some random dude in a place i thought was pretty foreign to footbag... it took awhile to sink in... something to the effect of me still trying to fathom it 15 minutes later in biology class while the teacher droned on about fragile ecosystems... all in all i was shocked, i had found a new kicker who belonged to a new club that existed right under my nose without even doing anything, except walking my lazy butt to class... not to mention: oh yea, ahren, do you know your like a celebrity in the hacky sack underground? hehe ~Bryan Fournier OOPS! Footbag Club Hermosa Beach, CA. P.S. Hey Tom, if you're out there...hehe that was pretty funny man, hope to kick with you soon bro From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:49:34 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30887 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:49:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web9614.mail.yahoo.com (web9614.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.13]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA30992 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:23:19 -0800 Message-ID: <20010203042312.66615.qmail@web9614.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.218.190.58] by web9614.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 20:23:12 PST Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:23:12 -0800 (PST) From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: [freestyle] your mom To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey yo, For the record and to clear up some confusion, I came up with "your mom". It is a symposium fusion. I refuse to learn jobs notation so I'll explain it in lamens terms. Atomic set (left leg dex), keep left leg in the air, symposium double-down with your right leg. I the'ed this move at worlds, but I'm hitting it clean now. Torch p.s. I hit your mom ;( From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:50:20 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30900 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:50:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from itsa.ucsf.edu (itsa.ucsf.edu [128.218.95.21]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31116 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:25:56 -0800 Received: from localhost (sjani@localhost) by itsa.ucsf.edu (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA27170; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:25:46 -0800 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:25:46 -0800 (PST) From: Sunil Subhash Jani Reply-To: Sunil Subhash Jani To: Kenny Shults cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gyro In-Reply-To: <42.1035d412.27ac6395@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What up Shreddies?: On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Kenny Shults wrote: > I can't believe I'm alone in thinking that Gyro can't have a plant. You turn You're not, Kenny. I for one, fully agree with you. It is such a different animal to do a gyro butterfly than a gryoSTYLE butterfly with a plant. PLANTS DO CHANGE MOVES. Try a paradox whirl, but plant your dex foot before doing the dex. IT IS NOT PARADOX. It is a different move. Same thing with gyro... the plant removes the added difficulty of the move. When you plant, you obliterate the necessity of having having to go against your momentum to keep your balance. I personally never thought of this plant rule to apply to big apple, but technically I would have to agree with Kenny. On a separate note, though, even if you disagree with the man, PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL to him... he friggin conjured up most of the moves we are all doing (and then some), give the man some credit for his revolutionary vision... I think the men and women who invented the concepts have all the right to explain, confine, and expand upon them as they please. > without plants, Atomic this and Nuclear that, Fairies and Pixies co-mingling. > What's the world coming to? Yeah, what is up with this furious barrage of self-importance. ALSO, I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE ALL FREESTYLERS TO NOMINATE RIPPIN RICK REESE, PETER IRISH, and SAM CONLON (amongst others, Tim Kelly!!) for the footbag hall of fame (I for one cannot respect the foundation if these people are not members). To make it easy just cut the following lines and paste it to a message addressed to FootbagHallofFame@footbag.org I nominate Rick Reese, Peter Irish, and Sam Conlon for the footbag hall of fame. Thank you. __________ Sunil Jani (don't cut this part) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:51:47 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30911 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:51:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web9612.mail.yahoo.com (web9612.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.11]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA31055 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:25:50 -0800 Message-ID: <20010203042540.73135.qmail@web9612.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.218.190.58] by web9612.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 20:25:40 PST Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:25:40 -0800 (PST) From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey yo, Alex Zerbe wrote: >I understand why you say a gyro move with a plant >can't be gyro. I think that this is a minor >technicality and shouldn't be taken into >consideration, just for the sake of simplicity. Ummmm... no. If you plant, it's not gyro. Why? Not planting the foot you do the dex with, makes the move harder. If you put your foot down it's substantially easier to maintain balance. It's much harder to spin on one leg, than it is to put your feet down and turn around. That's why gyro is unique. It is it's own creature. And Shults was one of the people that invented the move. How can you even consider arguing with the man. If you want to give a name to the planting "gyro" set then go ahead. But wait a minute. Then there will be another name for the old guys to remember. This game is so silly. Torch From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 21:28:27 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA31027 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:28:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32140 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:02:08 -0800 Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ("port 3930"@webmail.mscd.edu [147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G8603AKM0NBYQ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 22:01:59 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 21:54:22 -0700 From: brad kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] GYRO/NAMES/DEFINITIONS To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3A4DFF06@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From genzu@footbag.org ===== >As far as the planting vs. non-planting on gyro goes, >I feel that if the person that invented it wants to define >it - then that's how it should be defined - that's basically >the standard rule - you hit it, you name it (of course, >that's under debate as well ;-). I'm pretty sure >it was Rippin, Kenny, and Pete?? or others? that were >around when it was invented. Pete has already spoken >(rather wisely, IMHO). So what do the inventors say? I'm totally inclined to agree with Pete, but since I'm not as wise as Lao Tzu, I'm going to put my two sense in this. I agree that the person who invents a trick, rather is the first to hit a trick, should be the one to define or even name it if they want to. I hate to say this, but if whoever invented or named gyro doesn't like the plant thing, then it really should have been brought up a long time ago. I don't know the whole history or anything, but I'd say "Gyro" has been around for at least 10 years. I'm even betting that people have been planting in order to do gyro moves for at least 9 years. So why is it now such a problem? Kenny said if you were to plant your foot it becomes a spin move. I'd say that in footbags never ending struggle to define moves and names and adds and whatever else, this only makes things MORE complicated. We'll end up with 2 spinning butterfly moves and 1 gyro butterfly, 2 spinning legovers and 1 gyro, two spinning clippers and NO SUCH THING as a gyro clipper. The only good thing I see is that this may help to clear up and define spinning pdx moves for the non believers. I also don't think that's a necessity. The definition I like and have always gone by, and I think works in (dare I say) every case is: Gyro is set from toe or xbody followed by a backspin (away from the bag) and the next part of the move (dex, body, delay or unusual) is done by the side of the body opposite of which the move started. Many people may say "what about inspinning moves?" to which I respond, that there is a seperate definition for "Inspinning Gyro" moves which basically changes the "backspin" to a "frontspin" and the next part of the move is done by the "same" side of the body the move began on. Okay I'm done. Chew it up, spit it out, and let me graciously slip on it. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 21:57:22 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA31081 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:57:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00388 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:23:57 -0800 Received: from [144.92.96.184] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id XAA10222 (8.9.1/50); Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:23:48 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.20010202232347.00969990@students.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mklewand@students.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 23:23:47 -0600 To: Sunil Subhash Jani From: Matthew Kain Lewandowski Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gyro Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: References: <42.1035d412.27ac6395@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sunil wrote: >PLANTS DO CHANGE MOVES. Try a paradox whirl, but plant your dex >foot before doing the dex. IT IS NOT PARADOX. It is a different move. Although I don't really want to get into this (since I would rather be home practicing Blurriest), I feel Sunil's comment raises an interesting issue. If a plant nullifies paradox, why do moves like blurry whirl, blurry drifter, blurry torque, and countless others receive a paradox add? These moves all require that a plant is made. In fact, the no-plant version of these moves (in other words "pogo" style) is considered easier by many shredders. I hit pogo paradox whirl long before I hit blurry whirl mainly because it is an easier move. I agree with Sunil, Kenny, and others that a plant does change a move, but I don't know if I agree that a plant nullifes a paradox or makes a move easier. It seems to depend on the styler and the move that is attempted. >Same thing with gyro... the plant removes the added difficulty of the >move. When you plant, you obliterate the necessity of having having to go >against your momentum to keep your balance. I agree here as well, but only to an extent. Every time I have ever hit Mobius, I have planted. For me it is light years harder not to plant. I lose my balance, I don't set the bag as well, etc. However, my friend Aaron that I kick with finds it easier to do Mobius without the plant (the way that I assume the move was originally hit and is "meant" to be hit). He claims to get a better, more accurately placed set, and have more time when he does not plant. Two stylers, two styles, two preferences (and possibly two moves). Not that I really care if one is "technically" a Mobius and the other is not, I am just wondering about difficulty. What do others think on this? Anyway, there is no way anyone will solve this argument, so I think I am going to go home and practice Blurriest (and Corpsegrinder). And for all you fairy fans, has anyone hit fairy mobius yet? And Sunil, what is a Boulder Beater? Shred hard Matt Kain - Madison Footbag From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 11:22:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13112 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:22:59 -0800 Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13109 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:22:58 -0800 Received: from llic.net (llic.net [209.125.90.2]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10050 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:19:10 -0800 Received: from [209.125.90.60] (vpn-24-16-30-199.corp.home.net [24.16.30.199]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA07627 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:19:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: Host vpn-24-16-30-199.corp.home.net [24.16.30.199] claimed to be [209.125.90.60] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.21 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:18:25 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Freestyle list hiaitus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Folks, Please don't reply to this message, as I don't need any more e-mail than I already get right now. That said: This is just a note to let everyone know that there have been some problems with the freestyle list, and it has been unavailable for the last 10 days. We're working on it, and it will be flowing again soon (hopefully tonight, but no promises). As much as everyone thinks this is the most important list on the planet :-), it's a lower priority for us than the rest of the things we deal with in our day-to-day lives, so please bear with us. Anyone who sent e-mail to the list, your mail is still pending. You'll know the list is working again when you see your e-mail posted, or when you get that ever-so-familiar bounce message. Thanks for your patience. Again, I don't need any more e-mail so please don't reply with follow-up questions right now. Of course if you have a good reason to contact me, please do so but under a different subject line. Thanks. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:36:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14751 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:36:46 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160536.VAA14751@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: "Richard Reese" To: "ERiC WiNDSoR" , Cc: "Kenny Shults" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:08:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Windsor hit Blurry-blender to Scorpion-tail a short while ago, What a Windstorm, I better see You at the symp., Shredder.Rippin' From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:36:44 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14746 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:36:44 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160536.VAA14746@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: "Rick Reese" To: , Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:05:14 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org My partner is correct, gyro-whirl was the first gyro move, I hit it back in 93 or 94 at Dennis Jones' house ( the combo involved a bunch of other whirling moves that I was trying to hit in a row) whirl, symp. whirl, spinning whirl, gyro-whirl, paradox whirl........anyway, gyro-butterfly came later. Now, everybody. Gyro cannot have a plant, of course Kenny is right. If you plant, you are then performing a STOMPING move......I had'nt seen anybody mention that concept at all on the list lately. Back in 95 at the awesome Funtastic Classic Pete, Kenny and myself were at the tail-end of the first nights jam and we all started messing around with stomping in between all kinds of moves, THINK of the possibilities, well, that concept kind of fell to the wayside, but it may return! See ya at the Symposium. Rippin' From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:42:49 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14773 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:42:49 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160542.VAA14773@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: "Rick Reese" To: "Eli Piltz" , Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:12:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Kenny and I simultaneously invented Torque at the Intermountain Tournament in 1987 , ironically, it started from a mirage bail to an osis, not from a clipper. Seconds later, we both said What about from a clipper, and Torque was born (Kenny thought of the name........I love you man. Also, Damian Coventry wrote: > gyro has no plant, if you're planting you're doing something else, that > doesn't mean it's not worthy, it just means use a different word to > discribe it other than gyro. Spryo-Gyro was hit for the first time at the Heart of Freestyle tournament in 1995, Peter hit it first, then Myself, then Kenny, That was the same tourney that Tuan Vu, Eric Wulff, Josh Casey, and Steve Kremer were inducted into the B.A.P. Thank You Kic. Finally, Sunil wrote: > I nominate Rick Reese, Peter Irish, and Sam Conlon for the footbag hall of > fame. Thank you. Thank You Sunil and everyone else for the kind words. This is already my 19th year of kicking, and I'm so far behind............What am I going to do? I've lost so many moves! somebody help! I can't wait to party with you Sunil, bring your long underwear, it's chilly here. Rippin' From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:42:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14784 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:42:52 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160542.VAA14784@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 03:21:17 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Windsor Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gyro To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Sunil Subhash Jani wrote: > PLANTS DO CHANGE MOVES. Try a paradox > whirl, but plant your dex > foot before doing the dex. IT IS NOT PARADOX. Sunil, if you don't get paradox if you plant before you do a dex then is blur paradox? What about blurry whirl? I realize that gyro w/o plant is way harder than w/ plant. I'm just trying to argue that symposium gyro should exist. You would have to plant, but i think you should still get an add for the spinning motion and the symposium. Peace out now. Eric Windsor P.S. props to Alan for hitting Gyro Syposium DLO. That guy can hit almost anything it seems. also, I didn't know stepping torque had a name, I should have used blurry torque in my example. I can't even keep up with the move names either. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:45:51 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14825 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:45:51 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160545.VAA14825@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:43:47 -0500 From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17 i686; en-US; 0.7) Gecko/20010105 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Kenny Shults wrote: > post on trick naming. Just to clarify, I am not opposed to to trick naming in > principal but it has seemed to me lately that there has been a rush to put > unique names to every possible trick. Word! Hit an easy trick. Pat yourself on the back and work it into something harder, don't post to the list that you want to name it. Hit something big and then maybe start a discussion about names you like for it. Toe stall doesn't need to be called "corpsegrinder", it's really easy to understand what "toe stall" means. The same for, say, paradox mirage. But when you get a big move like Big Apple Sauce it needs a common name and not a technical-description name. Lots of people can't hit all the components of the move let alone conceive of stringing them together and comprehending the whole thing as one entity. Just give it a name so people know that it's hard and phat and you will get more newbies and spectators understanding the sport faster. The point where a move needs a common name instead of the technical name is probably just as hard to define as move difficutly, though (that's why I picked two extremes). Oh well you can't have everything, so we'll have to settle for an emotionally charged argument. matt From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:45:53 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14836 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:45:53 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160545.VAA14836@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 10:34:08 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gyro From: Derrick Fogle To: Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org on 2/2/01 11:23 PM, Matthew Kain Lewandowski at mklewand@students.wisc.edu wrote: > Sunil wrote: >> PLANTS DO CHANGE MOVES. Try a paradox whirl, but plant your dex > I agree with Sunil, Kenny, and others that a plant does change a move, but YES! Plants change moves. Sets change moves. Everything is unique. (And yes, I've yammered about the plant in blur before.) -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:45:57 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14847 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:45:57 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160545.VAA14847@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 00:08:40 -0500 From: Matt Craig User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17 i686; en-US; 0.7) Gecko/20010105 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bryan Fournier CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag Celebrities Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Bryan Fournier wrote: > all in all i was shocked, i had found a new kicker who belonged to a new > club that existed right under my nose without even doing anything, Actually it's not that surprising. I don't know the numbers but there are probably a whole lot more lurkers than posters on this list. For two reasons, 1: they (the lurkers) aren't all as dedicated as the pepole who post often 2: they are probably intimidated and/or confused by some of the discussions. (We need a list called scareawaythenewbies@footbag.org, for arguments like the naming and the gyro stuff) So they miss the really technical stuff but they get the things like who's awesome and worthy of being an idol. And then, much unlike the big professional sports, they go to a tournament and kick with that person, their idol, and never forget it. And you never know they're there until they walk up to you out of the blue. Surprise! or something like that, matt From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:47:03 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14860 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:47:03 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160547.VAA14860@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Austin Sparks Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 19:09:49 EST Subject: [freestyle] Lesson plans & a trick To: footbag_enlightener@excite.com, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 130 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Kenny and Scott and everyone else, I read your e-mail about lesson plans for teaching footbag, Scott. I want to know what those lesson plans are because pretty soon when I turn thirteen I'm going to be teaching a footbag class at a local teen center. And if anybody else has some lesson plans or anything like that please let me know. And plus someone tell me how many adds and what's the name for this trick: Ok, it's from clipper, then the support leg circles the bag from in to out, then other side, symposium butterfly or whatever. That trick reminds me of "your mom" that Ahren was talking about. From what I understood it was basically the same thing but one more dex on the last part of the move. Awesome Austin Sparks From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:47:41 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14871 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:47:41 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160547.VAA14871@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:15:36 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: [freestyle] new shred video To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, Thanks to Eric Bengtson, Tim Werner, and Eric Reile, I had my camera running for pretty much the whole new years jam in chicago, and a week after! I put together a 40 minute video and added some dope music, mainly for us who showed up to the Jam. I'm making a copy for everyone who showed up but there's a problem, I need the money to cover the tapes. So If anyone wants to buy a copy of the video, just visit this site for info http://members.nbci.com/shreddined/nyj2001.html there are 3 mpg clips, in the 3rd one I hit bigwalk and try surge in the same combo, hehe. Even if you don't want the video, the clips are worth checking out. Thanks, James Risden P.S. I was going to make all these clips into mpgs, but something happend and I can't. That would take waaaaaaay too long anyway. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:51:41 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14896 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:51:41 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160551.VAA14896@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Jon Schneider Subject: [freestyle] More Symposium Info To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:58:01 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Everybody! Jon Schneider here. I just wanted to let you all know that I have made some updates to the Symposium event listing. For all of you who need driving directs, Daryl Genz has provided detailed directions for those driving in from all directions. You just have to follow the link from the events page on footbag.org to the Revolution Footbags page. He even drew a little map. Also, I am sorry to say that there is not going to be any additional floor space at the Symposium. If you are coming and need a place to stay, please get in touch with the host hotel as soon as possible. They still have some rooms on hold for us, but will not hold them for much longer. A reminder to those who are staying at my place or Red's, don't forget to bring your own sleeping bags and pillows, etc. Also, although we intend to shred and party at Red's house, be aware that he shares that house with several other non-footbag playing people we are really putting themselves out to accommodate all of us, so don't forget to bring your !@$*ing manners. I can't predict the weather yet, so come prepared for the cold. Bring gloves and sweaters and all that stuff. Keep your hopes up and cross your fingers though, cause it has been known to reach seventy degrees in Boulder in February. Last year we played outside all day on Monday. One last thing: anyone else out there that is planning on coming but hasn't said anything to me, please just drop me a line to let me know that you're coming, and when. There are some things I need to prepare based on the numbers. See you all soon. Jonathan Schneider Outsider@footbag.org 303-448-0183 From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:52:33 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14907 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:52:33 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160552.VAA14907@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:40:57 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Planet X- coming soon To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Freestylers, Planet X will be featuring a six minute segment on footbag freestyle this coming weekend! Check your local listings. www.planetxtv.com might be able to help you find out if it broadcasts in your area. Planet X reaches 5 million people per program, and it is aired at least once on Saturday and once on Sunday in most places. In San Diego, it is on cable channel 13 XUPN, Saturday 4:30 pm, Sunday 5:30 pm. The segment is going to be sick!!! Chad Devlahovich, Richie Abshire, and I met Planet X a couple weeks ago for the shoot, and it went unbelievably well. They will be highlighting scenes from my latest video Aggressive Grounds, along with interviews, move demos, and combos gathered from the shoot. The important thing about this show is that it reaches our target audience. It is an action sports program. Also, by the time it airs, my website will be running (only minimally at first). Check it out this weekend at www.zoharpro.com Later, Eli Zohar Piltz Zohar Productions From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:53:45 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14923 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:53:45 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160553.VAA14923@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Jonathan Schneider Subject: [freestyle] More Symposium Info. To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 02:52:48 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Everybody! This message is for everyone who is flying in to Denver International Airport to get to the Colorado Shred Symposium. We will most likely not be able to pick anyone up at the airport this year. Sorry. One the bright side, it is pretty easy to get from DIA to Boulder. All you need to do is to get on the RTD Bus to Boulder. RTD is the Denver area bus system, and the AB bus goes from DIA to Boulder about every hour. The bus is eight dollars ($8) and you need EXACT CHANGE. This bus will bring you to Boulder's main bus station, the very last stop, and it takes about an hour and a quarter. Then just call us from the bus station and we should be able to get you from there. The numbers you'll need are mine, 303-448-0183, and Red's, 720-406-9319. All of you guys flying in, drop me a line to say what days and times you are coming so I can have an idea of who we're gonna have to meet at the bus station and when. Thanks. Jonathan Schneider Outsider@footbag.org From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:54:12 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14935 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:54:12 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160554.VAA14935@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:34:17 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Planet X- coming soon To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Freestylers, I may have been ahead of myself. I talked to one of the producers yesterday, who said he "thinks (the pro footbag segment) will air this weekend." But today I talked to the producer actually creating the segment, who said it will probably air weekend after this one (February 17 & 18). I have heard "six minutes" from two producers and "three minutes" from another, so I'm not certain of the exact length. I recommend anyone who can view Planet X to press record on their VCRs, so you can show friends and family who miss it live. Following is a list of the networks Planet X airs with: NEW ENGLAND SPORTS NETWORK NESN FEED TO DIRECT TV XUPN-PARAMOUNT NET SAN DIEGO CA AT&T BROADBAND LAKE ELSINORE CA AMERICA ONE TIME WARNER CABLE ORANGE COUNTY RSN/RESORTS SPORTS NETWORK CEN/COLLEGE ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK KALEIDOSCOPE TV COX CHANNEL 4 SAN DIEGO COX 3 ORANGE COUNTY AT&T BROADBAND FRESNO SUNSHINE NETWORK FLORIDA Thanks, folks. Eli Piltz __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:55:39 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14950 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:55:39 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160555.VAA14950@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:46:33 -0600 Subject: [freestyle] Footbags From: Colin Larson To: footbag Mime-version: 1.0 X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I got my new Juice facile bag in the mail today. I took it out and messed with it a little, but I'm confused. What makes this thing so much better than any of my crocheted bags? It's also very small, and it's kinda bouncy when you kick with it. And it's a pain to stall because it hits my foot and either bounces or rolls off. please help if you can -Colin From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:55:41 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14960 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:55:41 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160555.VAA14960@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:19:14 -0800 (PST) From: Lon Smith Subject: Re: [freestyle] plants and paradox To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello paradox fanatix Lon says Sunil's right. Sunil wrote: >PLANTS DO CHANGE MOVES. Try a paradox whirl, but plant your dex >foot before doing the dex. IT IS NOT PARADOX. It is a different move. Yes the moves feels completely different. And the difference you may feel while trying this move is the lack a paradox feeling in your hip. > >Same thing with gyro... the plant removes the added > difficulty of the > >move. When you plant, you obliterate the necessity > of having having to go > >against your momentum to keep your balance. Once again as Sunil Stated above a plant sorta just makes it all go away. >Anyway, is the paradox part of a paradox torque >really any different than >the paradox part of a paradox refraction? I don't >really think so. >-Derrick Woh there, all right. No. Paradox refraction is nearly uncleanable and is really just a symposium infinity. No paradox without a dexterity period. Moves that are paradox in my opinion(which is right). paradox torque Paradox drifter paradox mirage paradox doubblelegover anything Nuclear(even toe stalls) Marius but definately not void That's it! Put it in the books. It works. It almost eliminates that whole awesomely stupid paradox idea without ripping off moves's Adds. Seriously though put that shit in the books. Can we swear here??? I know I can but it might get erased by Brian. Props to Brian for stopping all those stupid message we write. Sloth Out From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:56:24 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14972 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:56:24 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160556.VAA14972@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:40:07 -0800 (PST) From: Lon Smith Subject: [freestyle] Re: Enough with the names To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello It's Lon, What kind of name is Your Mom? Come on people grow up now. And boulder beater. What's that uh? uh? You guys smackin' up big ol' rocks and your mothers? Crazy kids. Allen Hagget Wrote: >about 'Gyro-Blurry' based moves being 'Saucy' ;) ), >but >these are >more concepts than individual moves. Yes they truly are. I think Big ADD Chad has mastered and named this set SURGING right Chad? I was under the impression that naming priveledge is sometime just given to the first person to master it not necessarily think of it. Let's get one thing strait everyone. Kenny came up with the basics for naming all moves. Kenny Invented! all our nomenclature for move description and here it is. blury stepping leg overing spinning gyro(great name kenny we'll use it how we like) clipper seting stalling ducking diving symposium unusual surfacing paradoxing inside out outside in whirling butterflying swirling With the above words I'm sure any of us could name any move or atleast accurately describe it so that any other person with an understanding of those names would understand it. I still say nothing with a spin, stepping, or blury set is paradox except MARIUS. I tried it a million times. It's efin' paradox man. I WAS WRONG. Sloth Out From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:57:50 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14989 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:57:50 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160557.VAA14989@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 06:54:42 -0500 From: LaxerOne@netscape.net (Jan Zimmermann) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Swiss Jam Videos Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Franklin Webmailer 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi people! The Swiss Freestyle Jam two weeks ago was a huge blast! Videos of the real thing will be online soon! For now you can access some material of the "Day After" Shred at www.footbagfreestyle.de (curtesy of Sebastian Kleinichen). Only the Hardliners showed up (Namely Jan Zimmermann, Seb Kleinichen, Jose Capacoel and Christian Dubuis)and even though their Legs hurt like hell it's still woth to see! Jan From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:57:53 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15000 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:57:53 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160557.VAA15000@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:36:43 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zerbe Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: Ahren Gehrman , freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Ahren Gehrman wrote: >Ummmm... no. If you plant, it's not gyro. Why? Not >planting the foot you do the dex with, makes the move >harder. If you put your foot down it's >substantially easier to maintain balance. It's much harder to spin >on one leg, than it is to put your feet down and turn >around. That's why gyro is unique. It is it's own creature. And >Shults was one of the people that invented the move. How can you >even consider arguing with the man. Well, I guess I'd better answer when addressed directly. I can argue with the man because he was at least, in part, incorrect. He himself even addmitted that the direction of the dex does not matter, and that was half of my argument. As for planting not being gyro, Kenny's the man and has the athority to define the term. I still think my point has some validity to it. For example, if a planted gyro and a gyro are different moves they will be judged as uniques in competion. This will make judging more complicated, and reward people for doing, what I believe is essintally the same move, twice. That may be minor, but I think its extremly ironic that we will need to come up with a new term to describe planted gyro, when Kenny just finished telling us he's tired of all these new names. If planting is not gyro, then has anyone ever truly hit mobius to mobius?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ??????? ???????? Just somthing to think about. I hope I haven't offended anyone. Even if you dissagree with my point, it is still a valid argument, just for the sake of argument. As for a new term for planted gyro.... disaterous chunky skipping Just a few ideas that most of ya'll won't like. Zerbe From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:58:34 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15014 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:58:34 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160558.VAA15014@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 19:06:24 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Windsor Subject: [freestyle] Ride to Colorado? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello All footbaggers. I was wondering if anyone is driving to Colorado for the shred syposium, or needs a ride In the Central/Southern California area. I am in desperate need of a ride/passenger. I can take my own car, but i would need passenger/s to share driving expenses, and maybe swich driving, but that isn't necassary. So if anyone can give me a ride or needs one please e-mail me A.S.A.P. or call 909-301-6282. Thank you. Hope to see everyone at Shred Symposium, the best freestyle event aside from the World Championships. Eric Windsor P.S. I'll try not to get into too many debates about gyro/paradox in the car :P From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:59:28 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15031 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:59:28 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160559.VAA15031@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 19:12:06 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: [freestyle] Zeke is The Man! Ya'll gotta see this! To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Everyone, This is just me boasting for CIC (Chicago Inner Circle) member, "Zeke" Alex Ibardaloza. Back in December, this foo put us all in our place when he hit what I believe is the world's dopest 4 add freestyle footbag move. Toe set gyro double leg-over! http://members.xoom.com/shreddined/moves/toesetgyrodlo.m1v See also Scott Davidson's reverse swirling symposium whirl. http://members.xoom.com/shreddined/moves/reverseswirlingsymposiumwhirl.m1v These moves are a mouthfull! How about some names, Zeke and Scott?!?! Propz on these moves. Later all, James Risden From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 22:00:00 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15052 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:00:00 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160600.WAA15052@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:07:06 -0800 From: Chris Pinkus Subject: [freestyle] Pogo To: freestyle footbag Reply-to: pinkus@footbag.org MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I was looking through the "move elements" senction of .org, and it says pogo is worth 2 adds (if done correctly), yet the move listings only adds 1 add to the moves. Is pogo worth 1 or 2 adds? Chris P From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 22:01:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15085 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:01:59 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160601.WAA15085@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:34:23 -0800 (PST) From: Lon Smith Subject: [freestyle] Moves List Needs Help To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I Lon, have noticed that I don't agree with a lot of the move on the list. It is extensive but many moves are left out. For example most of the abstract flying and ducking moves are not in there. Also I noticed that paradox reverse whirl is on there a few times and getting the paradox add which is of course outrageous.. Also none of the x dex moves are receiving there adds. It took me a good 30 minutes to look over every single move and write down on paper every mistake and every reasonable left out moves that I thought should be in there. I found about twenty changes that I would make. Being that the moves list is how I learned freestyle I think any of us who have used it should in turn do our part to improve it for the next generations of shredders. Okay! Oh also noticed that spinning paradox is on there getting adds. Oh yeah, and I'm going to hit a possibly new move for yall at the shredd symposium. Hope you like it. Goodbye Sloth Out From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 22:02:02 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15096 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:02:02 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160602.WAA15096@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Brian Parsons Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:21:35 EST Subject: [freestyle] proposal and twirl question To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list! I was thinking about the debate about the gyro not being gyro if you plant after the set so I was thinking take spyro gyro(gyro butterfly swirl) and throw that name out and just call it a gyro butterfly swirl(for now). Then you could call the gyro set with a plant spyro (spinning + gyro =spyro). So a gyro mobius with a plant would now be a spyro torque etc....let me know what you all think. Also, has anyone hit a twirl but ending with a dyno instead of an osis? Thank you for your time. Peace Out, Brian Parsons From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 22:02:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15111 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:02:59 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160602.WAA15111@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:43:34 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson Subject: [freestyle] Footbag in the Chicago Tribune today!!! Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! I posted this to the freestyle list because it is not really an announcement, and not appropriate for the announce list. And I did not post to the Footbag list, where it may have been appropriate, but I am not certain that anyone even listens to that list, based on its usage... I wanted to make sure most of you (freestylers) saw this post, and to make sure of this, I posted to the freestyle list. So there. Today's Chicago Tribune (800,000+ daily circulation) has an article on Footbag with two pictures (in the print edition). The web link is on the next line if you want to check it out. Hopefully it will draw some *more* traffic to the footbag.org site, which is in the closing line of the article. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/metro/northwest/article/0,2669,SAV-0102130279,FF.html This is POSITIVE media attention. Not once did they call footbag "football", nor did they overuse the word "Hacky Sack." We are happy, we hope you like it too! See ya in Boulder at the shred! (A HUGE contingency of Chicagoans are converging on Boulder for the symposium, watch out!) :-) Sincerely, Scott, Valeria and Alex Davidson, MFA (Enlightener, Pixie and Family) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 22:35:06 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15267 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:35:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02862 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:28:27 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) id <0G8U02M017B9P6@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 23:28:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ("port 4248"@webmail.mscd.edu [147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G8U02L7T7B86L@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 23:28:20 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 23:20:28 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Pogo To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3A51F8A1@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >I was looking through the "move elements" senction of .org, and it says >pogo is worth 2 adds (if done correctly), yet the move listings only >adds 1 add to the moves. Is pogo worth 1 or 2 adds? I'm pretty sure this was a debate years back and I think it was decided that pogo got 1 add. The debate was whether or not there was a symposium involved along with the dexterity. In my humble opinion pogo only deserves 1 because it's a strange dex to begin with and if it really was "done correctly" then it's no longer pogo, it's a symposium stepping set. I defer to the obvious difference between Pogo Blur and Symposium Blur. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 23:20:05 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15341 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 23:20:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from lorica.ucc.usyd.edu.au (lorica.ucc.usyd.edu.au [129.78.64.15]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03958 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 23:10:18 -0800 Received: from [10.0.5.71] (p1351.net10.usyd.edu.au [10.0.5.71]) by lorica.ucc.usyd.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09761 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:09:42 +1100 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: mattsb@mail.ozemail.com.au Message-Id: Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:13:12 +1100 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Matthew Baker Subject: [freestyle] Atomic sets. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, I have been watching aggressive grounds a lot lately, and also Sultans, and I have a few questions regarding the atomic set from my watching of those. There seems to me to be 2 ways to do it. One way is the knee brought sharply across the body, with the dex done with the thigh. This way seems to be favoured by Adrian Dick, Ahren, and Lynton Stephens. The other way, is a 'whirling-style' motion done in front of the body, where the bag is dexed by the calf. Sunil and Peter seem to do it this way in Agg Grounds. Are these 2 different ways of doing an atomic set, or is the latter way simply Sunil and Peter doing original eggbeaters and legbeaters. Looking at Sultans it seems to me that Sunil does his atomic sets this way. A better explanation maybe that it is like a reverse quantum set. If this is a different way of setting it, why do you (Sunil and Peter) do it that way, and what advantages do you get from it? Adrian told me in NZ that he thought it was faster to do the dex with the thigh, and certainly Lynton had it down in Melbourne hitting a nice atomic dlo and atomic eggbeater. BTW I really love the footage of Sunil hitting flurry-legbeater-flurry-legbeater in Agg Grounds, that is a crazy combo, and very very smooth. How do other people hit their atomic sets, and which way do certain people find easier? Also, on an off note, does a nuclear set get a paradox add anymore? Thanks for your help, Matt Baker from .au, not from Oregon. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 23:52:16 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15424 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 23:52:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dnvrpop4.dnvr.uswest.net (dnvrpop4.dnvr.uswest.net [206.196.128.6]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA04962 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 23:43:41 -0800 Received: (qmail 38456 invoked by uid 0); 16 Feb 2001 07:43:33 -0000 Received: from dslpppf223.dnvr.uswest.net (HELO mindspring.com) (63.225.101.223) by dnvrpop4.dnvr.uswest.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 07:43:33 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 02:43:47 -0500 Message-ID: <3A8CDA33.793C6924@mindspring.com> From: "Ernest Crvich" To: freestyle@footbag.org Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro References: <200102160545.VAA14825@list.footbag.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Toe stall doesn't need to be called "corpsegrinder", it's really easy to > understand what "toe stall" means. The same for, say, paradox mirage. EXT. - COLLEGE CAMPUS - EARLY AFTERNOON Several students stand in a circle kicking a small beanbag-like object back and forth while listening to droning, repetitive electronica. Suddenly a loud "BRR-ZAP!" sound cuts the air, and a telephone booth instantly materializes out of nowhere nearby. None of the students seem to notice the booth, however. Jon: "Whoa, that was a wicked song! I like that zapping sound at the end." Bryan: "What? I thought that was you. I didn't want to say anything." Matt: "Yeah. I thought that was Jon, too. What was it then?" A trenchcoated man wearing a colorful scarf approaches the circle. Man: "I beg your pardon, but may I ask a favor of one of you nice fellows?" Matt starts screaming and begins to run away. Matt: "No, please god, no! I'm too young! Take Jon! He's muscular and fit!" Man: "What? No, wait, come back! I just want to ask a question." Jon: "Sure, go ahead. Don't mind my friend, he's just been a bit edgy since the knitting accident." Man: "I understand. Look, I know this sounds odd, but I'm from the future." Jon: "Not weird at all. In fact, I myself happen to be from the past." The man looks at Bryan briefly, who just shrugs, then back at Jon. Man: "Well, anyway...I was just wondering if you could tell me what a 'Corpsegrinder' is. Future generations know it has to do with footbag in some way, but historical records contain only theories, and all of them are contradictory." Jon: "Ah, yes. Corpsegrinder. Sure, I can tell you the real story behind that name. There's a lot of confusion about that one, but I happen to know the guy that came up with it." Man: "Splendid! Please, continue!" Jon: "Well, in an eruption of sarcasm..." Matt suddenly returns, running, and hits Jon in the stomach with what appears to be a live badger. Jon doubles over in agony and realizes that the badger was actually a piece of stone from the Berlin Wall. He painfully begins to explain the political ramifications of the reunification of Germany, but the trenchcoated man inserts a daisy into Jon's ear and runs away giggling in a gay and carefree manner. Matt then retrieves the badger, which promptly eats him. Bryan looks into the camera blankly. Bryan: "Eternity. By Calvin Klein." CUT! -- Ernest M. Crvich Boulder, CO "Wasting bandwidth since 1971." Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 16 00:16:57 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA15487 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:16:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05520 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:12:00 -0800 Received: from pacbell.net ([64.167.12.111]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G8U0050ABW43V@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:07:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:05:03 -0800 From: Chris Pinkus Subject: Re: [freestyle] Atomic sets. To: freestyle footbag Reply-to: pinkus@footbag.org Message-id: <3A8CDF2F.9C2FA76D@pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf References: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I, personally, do atomic sets with my calf. I think it makes more sense because after you set it, the bag is directly in front of you, instead of to the side (if you do the dex with your thigh). The thigh dex requires more hip motion, like a paradox move. I also think dexing with the calf has more potential. You can probably make some really high (above the head) sets that way. I'm working on atomic dlo now, I was hoping it wasn't hit yet. By the way (this question directed to those who set the bag leggie style), when doing really high sets, sometimes I feel a sudden sharp numbing feeling going down my atomic leg when it gets stretched too high for atomics. Will this lead into any serious problems? or will it just go away after I do it more? Chris P From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 16 00:40:37 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA15540 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:40:37 -0800 Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15537 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:40:37 -0800 Received: from llic.net (llic.net [209.125.90.2]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06011 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:36:47 -0800 Received: from [209.125.90.60] (vpn-24-16-30-198.corp.home.net [24.16.30.198]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id AAA08289 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:36:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: Host vpn-24-16-30-198.corp.home.net [24.16.30.198] claimed to be [209.125.90.60] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.21 Message-Id: X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:36:05 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] New list policies Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Folks, We will no longer give courtesy e-mails explaining the reasons for rejecting posts. It just becomes too much of a burden to get into a discussion with every person. From now on, if your message is not suitable for the list, it simply won't show up. For newer members, we'll still give some feedback to help you understand the guidelines because they are not all clearly documented. But for you regulars who keep getting bounced, and you know who you are, sorry but if your message doesn't show up and you see other messages showing up with a send date after yours, that means it was rejected. If you don't like this new policy or any of the policies I'm going to begin enforcing, I urge you to go start your own list. Also, please don't reply willy-nilly to posts on the list. Think it out, decide whether or not you want to post the message to the entire list or just to a person you're talking to. And then, carefully consider whether your message will be rejected. It wastes the moderator's time and yours if you post a message that will be rejected. And you know who you are, those of you who have the same types of posts rejected over and over again, so please cool it. Here is a short list of things you should be sure to do to avoid being rejected (this is not an exhaustive list): FREESTYLE LIST POLICIES (partial list): (1) Use your real full name (first and last) in the From: line of your outgoing e-mail (you must configure this in your mail preferences). ONLY users of AOL will be allowed to skip this because many AOL users can't set this up. But all AOL users *must* put their full name in the signature. Not just first name. Both names. No exceptions. (2) Do not post any messages to the list until you're *completely* caught up! That means, before you post a single message, read *all* the mail on the list that has arrived since you last read mail. Then, reply to the thread(s) you have replies for, and in some cases take the opportunity to reply to multiple messages on the *same thread* in the *same message*. Don't rapid-fire 6 messages on the same thread the same night, replying to everyone else's posts. That's just a pain for everyone. (3) Don't include the entire message you're replying to in your post. Cut it down to just the bit you're actually referring to, to give folks context (in fact, this is requested, see 4). (4) Similarly, don't reply without giving context! Always use the same subject line as the thing to which you're replying, and include a snippet of the specific point to which you're replying (and not the whole message, please). Use the *REPLY* function of your mail program, which will help you. Don't manually type Subject: lines because you'll probably get it wrong. For the threading feature of many people's mail readers to work properly, the subject lines have to be exactly right. Otherwise, if you randomly change the subject line every time you post, nobody can keep track of the conversation. Especially not a year from now when they're perusing the archives. (Has everyone seen the archives? It helps a lot to do that to get some idea why this matters. http://list.footbag.org/ ) (5) Don't combine two threads into one unless you really mean to. Keep them separate so people can follow the various conversations (see 4 above). Use your reply button/command to reply to messages on the list, so that the Subject: header is correctly reformatted to keep threads together as described above. (6) Don't post to the list from an e-mail address in the From: line that is not subscribed to the list. If you change e-mail addresses, you must update your list membership (see http://list.footbag.org/). (7) Don't write the list itself when you can write a more specific address. a. If you want to talk to someone and you can't remember their address, don't post to the list saying, "Hey, so-and-so, if you're out there, write me." The member directory at http://www.footbag.org/members/ is your best source of contact information, and/or the list archives which show the e-mail address of everyone posting (at http://list.footbag.org/). b. If you want to unsubscribe or have an administrative question regarding the list, for goodness' sake just ask the administrator (me) directly. If people don't know my e-mail address by now, ... Also, don't be afraid that I'll bite your head off. Just expect it, and it won't hurt so much. :-) c. If you are replying to a message, never send your mail without looking back over it, seeing if the freestyle list is cc'ed or not, and only cc it if you are really sure! Many messages can just go privately and don't need to go to the list. Consider private e-mail to follow up public posts, as opposed to completely open conversations. (Visualize it this way: every time you post to the freestyle list, you're walking up to the podium in a large auditorium and seizing the microphone. Vs. just walking over to someone who has just spoken over the microphone and continuing a private conversation on the sidelines.) (8) Don't even think of blatantly advertising for products or services for your own personal gain, or for that of anyone else. It's fine to edify and inform people of products, rate them and discuss them, etc., but it becomes a problem if it turns into a formal endorsement or advertisement. I run this list, under the auspices of a non-profit corporation, and with resources that cost me over $120 a month at the current rate. I will not have the list turn into a marketplace. I will not be responsible for transactions that go bad as a result of a member of my website or this e-mail list entering into any financial interaction with any other player or member. (9) For the love of Jebus, *please* don't use HTML mail. Fully half of our members are on the digest version of the list, which puts all mail inline into a huge message every day and mails it to them, and HTML mail simply doesn't work (it looks like garbage to non-computer geeks). I personally hate the digest and am thinking about killing it because of all the problems it causes. But since we still have so many people using it, please respect them and only post *plain text*. Otherwise, the digest will be completely illegible. If you post HTML, I will reply with a reject message to tell you to fix it. But you have to figure out how. I can't spend the time to teach everyone how to use e-mail. You people on AOL 6.0, please call AOL and complain and/or ask them how to disable HTML for your outgoing mail. Plain text means e-mail with absolutely no mark-up -- no bold-facing, no underlining, no font changes, nothing. Just plain, simple, text. (For the record, I believe mark-up is a good thing, but our list software can't handle it so please do your part to disable it in your mail client.) I'm sure there's more, but you get the idea. Thanks. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 16 08:39:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA16758 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:39:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net (IDENT:root@donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15637 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 06:48:37 -0800 Received: from [207.160.174.20] ([207.160.174.20] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 440232 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:43:41 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:48:23 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] plants and paradox From: Derrick Fogle To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200102160555.VAA14960@list.footbag.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org on 2/7/01 11:19 AM, Lon Smith at lonamithicus@yahoo.com wrote: > Woh there, all right. No. > Paradox refraction is nearly uncleanable and is really > just a symposium infinity. No paradox without a > dexterity period. I think you don't understand what I think the original poster was talking about. Look at it this way: MOVE NAME SET COMPONENTS CONTACT --------- --- ---------- ------- Paradox Mirage: clip same in op toe Paradox Refraction 1: clip same in, op inside, carry Paradox Torque: clip same in, op spin op clip Paradox Refraction 2: clip same in, op spin, op out op clip In every case, the bag is set from the clipper, the setting leg does the dexterity the 'long way' around the bag on the far side of the body from the set, and then the bag returns to the original setting side of the body, or goes further due to the spin executed after the dexterity (the body rotation of the spin is opposite the body rotation needed to get into position for the first dexterity). I illustrated both 'styles' of refraction: version 1 is the non-spinning catch-and-carry version, which is most similar to the mirage, while version 2 is the spinning version, which is most similar to the torque. If you think the refractions in the table above do not share the paradox component with the move directly above it, then you have simply never seen the moves executed correctly. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 16 08:53:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA16799 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:53:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17230 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:38:09 -0800 Received: from billy ([63.199.200.248]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G8U009ZAVXZ47@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:20:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:22:30 -0800 From: Sam Colclough Subject: [freestyle] My last request for Milleniums To: Freestyle Mailing List Message-id: <001701c0982c$629ccc80$9b66fea9@billy> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority: 3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If anyone knows where to get some size 12 Millenniums, could they please contact me? My shoes are beginning the long road to hell. You get the idea. As incentive I'd be willing to pay double or whatever it takes to get a pair (or 3). Thanks, Sam Colclough OOPS! Footbag Club Hermosa Beach http://www.penny-lane.com/oops From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 16 12:16:10 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17351 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:16:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1303.mail.yahoo.com (web1303.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.153]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA28694 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:42:19 -0800 Received: (qmail 2886 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Feb 2001 19:42:13 -0000 Message-ID: <20010216194213.2885.qmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.0.224.35] by web1303.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:42:13 PST Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:42:13 -0800 (PST) From: Jane Jones Reply-To: janejones2000@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <200102160557.VAA15000@list.footbag.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Ahren Gehrman wrote: >Ummmm... no. If you plant, it's not gyro. Why? Not >planting the foot you do the dex with, makes the move >harder. If you put your foot down it's >substantially easier to maintain balance. It's much >harder to spin >on one leg, than it is to put your feet down and turn >around. Okay then, so a couple of days ago, I hit what I call "gyro symposium mirage" ( little apple? ) Obviously, I planted for the mirage. According to the "gyro = no plant" theory, it is impossible to have a symposium gyro move then(?) So what is little apple then? just a back-spinning symposium mirage, not to be confused with a front-spinning symp mirage? IMHO, I think the best classification for these moves has been stated as: gyro = 1st dex with the same leg you set from spinning = 1st dex with opp leg than you set from The way I see it, it's a stylistic difference. Some people gyro no plant (I do it this way...unless it's symp.), some people plant. I've been taught both ways and prefer no plant. I argue that planted vs. no plant for gyro is a style difference. Some people can hit gyro mirage with no plant that can't hit it planted. Others can hit it planted, but not without a plant. --- It doesn't mean it is easier or harder, it just depends on how you skool it. Planted gyro mirage would be harder for me because I never practice it that way. I don't think the plant should be a qualifier for whether something is gyro or not. It is not technically more difficult with no plant -- That is a biased opinion subject to the persons own style. If it were up to me (and it's not), I'd keep the following as the general rule of thumb because it incorporates each individual's style: gyro = 1st dex with the same leg you set from spinning = 1st dex with opp leg than you set from Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 16 15:28:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA17790 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:28:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (ha2.rdc2.tx.home.com [24.14.77.21]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05758 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:23:32 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([65.10.4.236]) by mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010216232320.MOJO8337.mail.rdc2.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:23:20 -0800 Message-ID: <3A8DB84A.EFE9ADEC@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:31:22 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Move List on footbag.org (was - Re: [freestyle] GYRO/NAMES/DEFINITIONS) References: <3A4DFF06@webmail.mscd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello everyone. There has been a lot of talk going around about what makes a move unique and what should be on the move list and stuff like that. As the guy who tries to keep the move list up to date, let me say some things. First, if you find errors on the move list, please email them to me (derric@dallasfootbag.org). I'll try to correct any errors as soon as I get your email. Deal? Sending messages to this mailing list only clutters up people's mailboxes with stuff they can't do anything about. Second, if you have suggestions about changes on the move list (removal of paradox, addition of xdex, renaming of a move), again, let me know. Sometimes things aren't all clear. Thanks to Steve's work on footbag.org, it is pretty easy to add, remove and update things. If a move isn't on the list, there is usually a good reason. And, third. Since we've been having a lot of talk about gyro lately... Brad recently posted with the current working definition of gyro. By 'current working definition', I mean that this is the definition I am using on the move list. This definition is broad enough to cover all related moves, and narrow enough to keep only one move per name. This is a GOOD thing. about gyro, brad kaplan wrote: > > The definition I like and have always gone by, and I think works in (dare > I say) every case is: Gyro is set from toe or xbody followed by a backspin > (away from the bag) and the next part of the move (dex, body, delay or > unusual) is done by the side of the body opposite of which the move started. > Many people may say "what about inspinning moves?" to which I respond, > that there is a seperate definition for "Inspinning Gyro" moves which > basically changes the "backspin" to a "frontspin" and the next part of the > move is done by the "same" side of the body the move began on. One last thing... if you don't like my application of the gyro concept (or anything else), let me know. Footbag.org has a polling feature. If I get some other *clear* definitions for stuff, I will set up a poll. Then, we can all vote. Winner takes all. The move list will be adjusted accordingly. Cool? Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 16 18:49:40 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18372 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:49:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web5304.mail.yahoo.com (web5304.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.106.113]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA10166 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:37:24 -0800 Message-ID: <20010217013718.7656.qmail@web5304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.79.223.207] by web5304.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:37:18 PST Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:37:18 -0800 (PST) From: Lon Smith Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <200102160557.VAA15000@list.footbag.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, What's Up? it's Lon. Alex wrote: > If planting is not gyro, then has anyone ever truly > hit mobius to mobius?????? ?????? ?????? > ???? ??????? ???????? Yes I have actually hit it once with no planting! Five times with planting. Alex brings up a good point thought. If you(Kenny) don't think you can plant for gyro then would a gyro mirage be the same thing as a backspin planting mirage or would you count those as unique moves in competition? I do both so it would be nice to know if I should incorporate those both into my finals routine. I will always use gyro to mean Backspin same side anything. Has anyone else hit mobius to mobius without planting? Lon Done writing now, bye From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 16 18:50:05 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18385 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:50:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11605.mail.yahoo.com (web11605.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.57]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA12276 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:32:45 -0800 Message-ID: <20010217023238.56147.qmail@web11605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [172.140.241.247] by web11605.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:32:38 PST Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:32:38 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Zohar Productions website To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Freestylers everywhere, I want to let you all know that my website is running. It's pretty cool at this point, but it is still under construction. I owe a huge debt of gratitude to Damon Matthews for building it, and to Steve Goldberg for hosting and setting up the site- round of applause from San Diego. ZoharPro.com will be an important website for the freestyle community. I'll leave it at that and let you all check it out. http://www.ZoharPro.com Eli Piltz From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 16 23:22:55 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18757 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 23:22:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f27.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.27]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21494 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 23:16:46 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 23:16:10 -0800 Received: from 207.148.141.163 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 07:16:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.148.141.163] From: "Rob Fuller" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Sponsorship Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 00:16:09 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Feb 2001 07:16:10.0117 (UTC) FILETIME=[80A2F350:01C098B1] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have a few questions about sponsorship. Are any of you sponsored for footbag. By stores (Sport Check...etc..) or mabey companies (Adidas....etc...). If you are sponsored...did you approach the "sponsor" or did you go to them. If you were the one to talk to them...how did you go about it. Also....what kind of things do they give to you or do for you...give you lavers....order bags...send to tourneys. I ask this because a few of my clubs "finacially challenged" members (including my broke 15 year old who can't get a job cuz he has no experience self) were looking for some easier way to get lavers than paying 100 bucks Canadian over the net or looking around for months to find a store that has every size but mine. Rob Fuller From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Feb 17 14:09:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20418 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 14:09:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Kenny Shults Received: from imo-r17.mx.aol.com (imo-r17.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.71]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11669 for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 13:59:32 -0800 Received: from KenShults@aol.com by imo-r17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id z.34.11053ccc (9651) for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 16:58:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34.11053ccc.27c04e1b@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 16:58:51 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Language: en X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 123 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id OAA20400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Lon wrote >Alex brings up a good point thought. If you (Kenny) don't think you can >plant for gyro then would a gyro mirage be the same thing as a backspin >planting mirage or would you count those as unique moves in competition? I do >both so it would be nice to know if I should incorporate those both into my >finals routine. They are different moves which happen to have the same add components. Gyro has no plant, which generally makes it harder but this is a subjective assessment that gets no credit in any extra adds. Other similar examples include the following distinct moves ’Äì Stepping Osis is not a Blender Stepping Clipper is not a Whirl Stepping Whirl is not a Whirr Stepping Mirage is not a Barrage Stepping Torque is not a Barroque I believe that Lon even proposed a unique name for Stepping opposite side clipper which would of course be a Drifter with a plant. I don't hear a lot of campaigning about any of the above being the same trick, in fact I mostly hear a lot of suggestions for unique names, so why is it so hard for you guys to accept that gyro doesn't have a plant. I guess you can take a revisionist history approach and discard the original concept entirely and make up this new definition if you like. But taking a poll about how many people want to believe this new definition will not change the fact that it's wrong. Sincerely, Kenny Shults From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Feb 18 11:35:39 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23511 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 11:35:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16632 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 11:14:21 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) id <0G8Y06A01W3N3H@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 12:14:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ("port 2708"@webmail.mscd.edu [147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G8Y06A0UW3N2S@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 12:14:11 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 12:05:52 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: freestyle Message-id: <3A8E3B12@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From janejones2000@yahoo.com ===== >IMHO, I think the best classification for these moves has >been stated as: >gyro = 1st dex with the same leg you set from >spinning = 1st dex with opp leg than you set from I'd have to disagree with this. For starters you have to count more than just dexes. You need to include body, delay and unusual. Also, if you go with that definition of gyro and spinning then a toe set gyro would be impossible unless it was inspinning gyro and all currently held toe set spinning moves would be the currently held gyro moves because those would have to be gyro moves by this definition. Boy am I confused. >The way I see it, it's a stylistic difference. Some people >gyro no plant (I do it this way...unless it's symp.), some >people plant. I've been taught both ways and prefer no >plant. I have given this whole Gyro Plant No Plant thing a bit of thought when it comes to Gyro Symposium moves. Jane was right to ask if those moves actually exist under the newly enlightened definition. I think they do. An argument I heard brought up was about gyro meaning you spin on only one leg. It was proposed that spinning on one leg is harder than spinning on two and that it's a key element to Gyro moves that distinguishes them from Spinning. I contend that when doing what has been known as "gyro symp mirage" and "Gryo Symp Torque" you ARE only spinning on one leg. In the case of clipper you will set the bag and spin then you will immediately change which foot you are standing on to do the rest of the move. If it's toe set gyro then there is never a changing of plant foot. Tear it up, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Feb 18 11:35:37 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23506 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 11:35:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15888 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 10:50:51 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) id <0G8Y06901V0ALA@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 11:50:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ("port 2676"@webmail.mscd.edu [147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G8Y0686LV0AIZ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 11:50:34 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 11:42:15 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Atomic sets. To: freestyle Message-id: <3A8E3A94@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From Matthew Baker ===== >There seems to me to be 2 ways to do it. One way >is the knee brought sharply across the body, with the dex done with >the thigh. This way seems to be favoured by Adrian Dick, Ahren, and >Lynton Stephens. The other way, is a 'whirling-style' motion done in >front of the body, where the bag is dexed by the calf. Sunil and >Peter seem to do it this way in Agg Grounds. Are these 2 different >ways of doing an atomic set, or is the latter way simply Sunil and >Peter doing original eggbeaters and legbeaters. These are both Atomic sets just different styles. The one Ahren and Adrian do, also the one I prefer, is known as the "hippy" style and the one Sunil and Peter do is know as the "leggy" style. >If this is a different way of setting it, why do you (Sunil and >Peter) do it that way, and what advantages do you get from it? Adrian >told me in NZ that he thought it was faster to do the dex with the >thigh, I would agree with Adrian, but it is merely a matter of preference and individual leg speed, not to mention flexability. If you watch Sunil he goes major rubberbando when that first dex leg comes up. You also notice that the dex happens quite high up. If you watch a hippy style the flex comes more from the hip and the dex is done a bit lower. >and which way do certain >people find easier? Also, on an off note, does a nuclear set get a >paradox add anymore? I don't think there is a clear way to say "this one is easier than that one" because it is really a style preference. Anyone who is trying a new move or set should practice any which way you can and choose the one that is most comfortable to you. I tried both Atomic sets when I was first learning it and leggy just wasn't in the cards for me, so I went hippy. You bet Nuclear gets a pdx add. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Feb 18 12:41:15 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23667 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 12:41:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from inetsrv.Callplus.co.nz (mail.callplus.co.nz [202.180.64.194]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18410; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 12:08:34 -0800 Received: by INETSRV with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <18DAYZVM>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:08:17 +1300 Message-ID: <48A772923645D411B54100D0B765CC215C59A2@INETSRV> From: Adrian Dick To: "'pinkus@footbag.org'" , freestyle footbag Subject: RE: [freestyle] Atomic sets. Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:08:14 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, Chris wrote: > I, personally, do atomic sets with my calf. I think it makes more sense > because after you set it, the bag is directly in front of you, instead of > to the side (if you do the dex with your thigh). The thigh dex requires > more hip motion, like a paradox move. I reckon Hippy style gives you more time coz there is less dex motion and more height involved in the set, so you are ready for the 2nd part of the trick.... > I also think dexing with the calf > has more potential. You can probably make some really high (above the > head) sets that way. Not sure about that, I can hit ducking legbeater(atomic ducking butterfly) & ducking atom smasher (atomic ducking mirage) with the hippy motion. Hmm, ducking fusion would be cool. L8r! From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Feb 18 13:55:08 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA23832 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:55:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f89.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.89]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21100 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:24:47 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:24:11 -0800 Received: from 152.163.197.189 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:24:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.197.189] From: "Pete Irish" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Gyro Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 16:24:11 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Feb 2001 21:24:11.0404 (UTC) FILETIME=[22A8F4C0:01C099F1] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org A Gyro set does not include a plant. If you plant, IT'S NOT GYRO. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Feb 18 13:56:39 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA23850 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:56:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from radius.uti.hu (ns.uti.hu [213.163.24.1]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21481 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:39:08 -0800 Received: from rebelkid (b-dial107.uti.hu [213.163.25.107]) by radius.uti.hu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1ILcsR17455 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:38:54 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:55:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 From: Gergo Csallo X-Mailer: Mail Warrior To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Sad but true. Welcome to Hungary Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit X-Mailer-Version: v3.57 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone! Just for you to know, the First Hungarian Footbag Festival was organized recently, and in our little country, it was great to see, how many people are interested in it. On the other hand, it was a little bit sad to realize, that footbag is pretty new to our home. Only a few competitors were pulling real tricks. Dont worry, we keep on practicing, and hopefully we'll be there on the Euros! Very special thanks to Jan "Dexter" Struz (CZ), Jacob Wagner and Matthias Lino Scmitt (GER) for being there, judging, etc. Though I had nothing to do with organizing this festival, I hope that my friends (those who actually did it) will not be mad at me for this post. Greets to the greats Gergo From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Feb 18 15:15:54 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA24020 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 15:15:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24847 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 15:07:48 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) id <0G8Z06F016WT51@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 16:07:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ("port 3084"@webmail.mscd.edu [147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G8Z06E2X6WT9O@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 16:07:41 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 15:59:22 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] RIDES FROM AIRPORT TO SHRED SYMPOSIUM To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3A8E438E@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Friday Feb. 23rd I will make 2 trips to Denver International Airport to make pickups for those of you who are flying in and don't want to have to pay for or take the Bus to Boulder. I have no idea how many of you are coming into DIA or from where or at what time. As I said, I will make 2 trips to the airport and they will probably be about 3 hours apart. Depending on the times or your arrivals you may end up waiting around for an hour or more for the next pickup. PLEASE e-mail me privately with your flight times if you want to take advantage of this. I'll let everyone know, by e-mail or phone if you prefer, Wednesday evening what those pickup times are and where the general meeting place will be. Let me know, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Feb 18 17:51:47 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA24563 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:51:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web4602.mail.yahoo.com (web4602.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.105.157]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA29958 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:08:13 -0800 Message-ID: <20010219010806.18136.qmail@web4602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.97.2.242] by web4602.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:08:06 PST Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:08:06 -0800 (PST) From: John Kingi Subject: RE: [freestyle] Atomic sets. To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <48A772923645D411B54100D0B765CC215C59A2@INETSRV> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey there shredders. Chris wrote: > > > I, personally, do atomic sets with my calf. I > think ..... >--- Adrian Dick wrote: > I reckon Hippy style gives you more time coz there > is less dex motion and.... I tend to agree with Adrian on Atomic sets. When I first started learning this set I used to dex with my calf and it kind of threw me off balance and hurt my hip a bit too. Once I started dexing with my thigh, the movement became more comfortable and gave me more time to plant, gather my balance and move into the next element of the move. About a week ago I hit my first Ducking Atomic move, Ducking Atom Smasher. I know if I tried dexing the set with my calf I'd tear my hip out. Having said that, Don't think, Cris, that I'm "Dis'ing" your set, It just comes down to preference and what works for you. Later. Johnny (Redeemer) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Feb 18 18:33:36 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24698 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 18:33:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net (IDENT:root@donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02092 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 18:28:34 -0800 Received: from [4.3.96.205] ([4.3.96.205] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 441116 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 20:23:31 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 20:26:44 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3A8E3B12@webmail.mscd.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org on 2/18/01 1:05 PM, Brad Kaplan at kaplanb@mscd.edu wrote: > known as "gyro symp mirage" and "Gryo Symp Torque" you ARE only spinning on > one leg. In the case of clipper you will set the bag and spin then you will > immediately change which foot you are standing on to do the rest of the move. Even though I'm not exactly proficient at those moves, I would agree from a technical perspective that the immediate switching of support feet present in symposium moves makes the execution of the spin/dex on the switched support leg of similar (if not even greater) class of difficulty. But, having said that, I would have to defer to Kenny, Eric, Peter, et al, if their judgement is different. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Feb 18 19:56:44 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24915 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:56:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11601.mail.yahoo.com (web11601.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.53]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA03859 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 18:54:57 -0800 Message-ID: <20010219025451.62820.qmail@web11601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [172.169.175.240] by web11601.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 18:54:51 PST Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 18:54:51 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: RE: [freestyle] Atomic sets. To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org List, Matt Baker wrote: >There seems to me to be 2 ways to do it... Kaplan wrote: >These are both Atomic sets just different styles... "hippy" style and... "leggy" style. When I coined the phrase 'Atomic', it was really only to apply to the Hippy reverse miraging set. At the time (1998) no one on the freestyle scene was exploring reverse miraging tricks Leggy style. Tuan, McKenzie, Torch, and I were pretty much the only ones hitting reverse miraging tricks besides legbeater and atomsmasher. It was an evolution within the sport when 'Atomic' came to apply to leggy reverse miraging sets. Though I came up with the set term, I didn't see the need to complicate things by drawing boundaries between the styles, and frankly I could do nothing about it anyway. I see a few parallels in here applying to the gyro discussion. Evolution is inevitable. Neo. Eli Piltz From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Feb 18 22:01:19 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25113 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:01:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f233.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.233]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15170 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:50:54 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:50:16 -0800 Received: from 211.216.216.41 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 05:50:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [211.216.216.41] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 05:50:15 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2001 05:50:16.0329 (UTC) FILETIME=[D590CF90:01C09A37] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org As just the latest to weigh in on set names, Derrick Fogle wrote: >But, having said that, I would have to defer to Kenny, Eric, Peter, et al, >if their judgement is different. Ok, I think I have a simple solution for the whole set naming thing, that should put an end to this debate: we name every set "smurf." By both voicing, exchanging nasals and liquide and adding or subtracting a glottal stop after m, by my calculations there should be at least 32 combinations. Within those different combinations (each representing a different set concept) we can simply use different sonority to express variations on the style. Of course, sonority is hard to notate with plain text when discussing moves by e-mail, so we can simply use the punctuation marks "?" "!" and "." to denote rising, falling, and constant sonority, respectively. A glottal stop with a "?" (different than the one used to denote rising sonority). So now (for example), gyro torque (mobius) is now technically "smurf?ing torque" mobius with a plant is now "smurf!ing torque" and marius is "smurf.ing torque." In-spinning torque without a plant is "zmurf.ing torque" and so on. I suggest a phonetics and articulation workshop at worlds every year to help with standardization. Cheers. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Feb 19 10:53:44 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26755 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:53:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f105.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.105]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26973 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 04:33:38 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 04:33:01 -0800 Received: from 203.97.2.243 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:33:01 GMT X-Originating-IP: [203.97.2.243] From: "jono heyes" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] footbag on tv, and at school.... Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 01:33:01 +1300 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2001 12:33:01.0791 (UTC) FILETIME=[194DAEF0:01C09A70] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey everyone, i was at university today and a tv cameraman spotted me and a couple of friends kickin, i wasn't exactly going hard but managed to attract his attention nonetheless. He was videoing for a pre rugby game clip to go on the big screen, i managed to seal a few ok moves and finished off with a 2 bag juggle ending on a head stall, at which i had to say "go highlanders(the local team)", i felt like a bit of a puppet but the footage will be viewed by about 20,000 people so its exposure, which is good for our sport. Also on another high note i was asked recently to give lessons at a primary school after a school teacher spotted me at the town festival. Heres hoping that the recent publitity will attract a few players. Keep kickin, Jono Heyes, dunedin NewZealand From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Feb 19 10:54:21 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26767 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:54:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f192.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.192]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA32464 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 07:50:49 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 07:50:12 -0800 Received: from 193.229.72.75 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:50:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [193.229.72.75] From: "Samuli Viitanen" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: [Freestyle] Sponsorship Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:50:12 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2001 15:50:12.0763 (UTC) FILETIME=[A51CBEB0:01C09A8B] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi list! Rob Fuller wrote: > > I have a few questions about sponsorship. Are any of you sponsored for >footbag. By stores (Sport Check...etc..) or mabey companies >(Adidas....etc...). If you are sponsored...did you approach the "sponsor" >or did you go to them. If you were the one to talk to them...how did you >go >about it. Also....what kind of things do they give to you or do for >you...give you lavers....order bags...send to tourneys. > getting sponsorship... sounds quite easy, doesn't it? But it's really quite demanding. I'm writing this just to tell my view of this thing. I've been negotiating with a local Finnish sports goods store about sponsoring me to the next worlds/european masters. And it has been a LOT harder than I first thought. First of all you must approach the thought sponsor with a lot ideas and a solid knowledge of what you're doing, and you also must master good skills in footbag. I approached them openly and told about the sports history, my own success in the sport, the popularity of the sport and everything around it. And the manager of the store was really excited about this idea. Secondly you have to think what you can do to make the sponsor benefit of sponsoring YOU. Simply: how the sponsor makes more profit with your help/knowledge/skills/etc. I have, for example, promised to arrange 5-10 minute performances at the srpots store where I tell people about the sports, show basic skills in freestyle, show insane shred videos and of course let the audience try out their own shreddin' skills:) Then there are also a lot other little and big things to work out with your sponsor, for example, how to bring footbag up to customers' knowledge, how to get them interested of it, what is our major target in age groups etc. etc. etc. As I previously told, this demands a LOT of dedication in time and work from you and the sponsor. Money doesn't grow in trees. >I ask this because a few of my clubs "finacially challenged" members >(including my broke 15 year old who can't get a job cuz he has no >experience >self) were looking for some easier way to get lavers than paying 100 bucks >Canadian over the net or looking around for months to find a store that has >every size but mine. :) I think there are much easier ways than getting a sponsor to get money for Rod Lavers. Try finding work from some big hamburger chain, there's a job you can get with no previous experience in work. Trust me, I know it. Been there, done that;) Or just don't spend any money on candy and ice-cream, your teeth will also thank you for it:) But anyway, good luck in hunting a sposor!! It takes a lot of work, but what wouldn't take in this world nowadays? Now go sposor-hunting (Your mom??? Or dad perhaps). -Samuli Viitanen -finnishredder@footbag.org From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Feb 19 21:23:14 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28525 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:23:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA17418 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:15:54 -0800 Received: (qmail 26360 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Feb 2001 05:15:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20010220051543.26359.qmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.30.184.118] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:15:43 PST Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:15:43 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] proposal and twirl question To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <200102160602.WAA15096@list.footbag.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Brian Parsons wrote: >(spinning + gyro= spyro). That's an awsome idea. I recently discovered that I plant on "gyro butterfly". I felt uncool and dirty cause I couldn't call it gyro anymore. But now that I can call it spyro butterfly, I fell ok again. Later, James P.S. This whole discussion is LAME. People have their own style and their own way of hitting each move. But if we gotta call it something else, might as well be spyro. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Feb 20 10:20:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA30306 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:20:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11003.mail.yahoo.com (web11003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.53]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA25631 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 02:59:12 -0800 Message-ID: <20010220105905.38561.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.188.197.51] by web11003.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 02:59:05 PST Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 02:59:05 -0800 (PST) From: Nick Hughes Subject: [freestyle] Backflips To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <20010220051543.26359.qmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, folks. My friend Adrew just landed a move he has been working on for two years: he does inside foot twice then belts it into the air does a backflip (yes you heard right, a backflip), into a toe stall! I just wanted to know if anybody has landed this or anything close to it? Hey shred forever, Nick P.s. Me and my friends are hoping to create an astroturf net court in my backyard.:) That should be funny as hell! From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Feb 20 10:21:01 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA30311 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:21:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ucsub.colorado.edu (ucsub.Colorado.EDU [128.138.129.12]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01136 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:02:48 -0800 Received: (from schneija@localhost) by ucsub.colorado.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0/ITS-5.0/standard) id f1KG2eD23908 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:02:40 -0700 (MST) From: Jon Schneider Message-Id: <200102201602.f1KG2eD23908@ucsub.colorado.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Some more Symposium info To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:02:40 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Everybody! All of you shredders arriving in Boulder in a few days, you will probably want to get ahold of somebody for Shred Info and/or a ride to where ever the hell it is you're staying. I will probably be hard to get ahold of on Thursday and Friday morning and afternoon, so you can call Red Shred Husted at 720-562-0144. you can also try Ernest Crvich at 720-564-0469. Remember that in Colorado you have to dial the area code every time. To get to the host hotel by bus from Boulder's main bus station is very easy and will only require about two blocks of walking. Catch the "Leap" or the "Jump" bus from the station going east. Get off the bus at 28th street. From the "Leap" you will walk two blocks south to the corner of 28th and Canyon, from the "Jump" you'd walk two blocks north to Canyon and 28th (Remember, the mountains are west, orient by them). The Best Western Golden Buff Lodge is right there on the corner of 28th and Canyon, and the those busses are only seventy five cents. Ask information at the bus stop where to get on those busses. See ya soon. Jonathan Schneider Outsider@footbag.org 303-448-0183 From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Feb 20 13:31:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA30929 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:31:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from c1274739-a [65.4.44.61] by mail6.burlee.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id AD21417900FC; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:09:53 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.20010220130309.00b582e0@mail6.burlee.com> X-Sender: kevin@eAardvark.com@mail6.burlee.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:10:57 +0000 To: freestyle@list.footbag.org From: "Kevin J. Courtney" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Backflips In-Reply-To: <200102202050.MAA30794@list.footbag.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:50 PM 2/20/01 -0800, Nick Hughes wrote: >My friend Adrew just landed a move he has been >working on for two years: he does inside foot twice >then belts it into the air does a backflip (yes you >heard right, a backflip), into a toe stall! > > I just wanted to know if anybody has landed this or > anything close to it? Jack Schoolcraft, one of the original freestylers did a backflip to a lap catch in the early to mid '80s. Aardemus the Aardvark does a backflip to a toe stall in the Footbag Freestyle screen saver dating back to Worlds 1997... Awesome move for Andrew to do!!! Kevin Courtney From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Feb 20 21:38:39 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA32301 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:38:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web207.mail.yahoo.com (web207.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.107]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA24923 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:20:17 -0800 Received: (qmail 23841 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Feb 2001 02:20:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20010221022010.23840.qmail@web207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.0.224.35] by web207.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:20:10 PST Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:20:10 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zerbe Subject: Re: [freestyle] proposal and twirl question To: Brian Parsons , freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <200102160602.WAA15096@list.footbag.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, Spyro sounds good to me. That name was proposed for symposium gyro moves a while back, but I think at this point we need a name for planted gyro more that gyro symp moves. I hit my first spinning whril the other day. see ya'll in Eugene and at Westerns. Hope everyone has fun in Boulder. Zerbe P.S. are there going to be any possee inductions at the Symp? From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Feb 20 21:38:37 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA32296 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:38:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web4602.mail.yahoo.com (web4602.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.105.157]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA16360 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:46:06 -0800 Message-ID: <20010220224559.25189.qmail@web4602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.97.2.242] by web4602.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:45:59 PST Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:45:59 -0800 (PST) From: John Kingi Subject: RE: [freestyle] Atomic sets. To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <20010220203531.1784.qmail@web5305.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey All. --- lon smith wrote: > > All right Johnny This is me Lon. Just calling to let > you know you don't just mention you hit a new move > you get all excited.... > ....you finally did it Hell no this is a new move. I'm pretty sure Adrian Dick's been hitting this for quite some time, I'm also quite sure that he seal's it with something a little more complex then a Corpesgrinder. (unless you're taking the piss about me boasting in which case you got me, I'm guilty) > can turn that mirage into a symposium one then I'm > pretty sure you;lll also be the first person to hit > a > six add toes move. Backside symp Skull-Smasher you say, Hmmmm sounds phat to me. Is it true that nobody has hit a toe set 6 add'er?? Any way, later all, I'm off to practice my Armaggeddon Death Bringer's. Johnny (Redeemer) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Feb 20 21:38:40 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA32306 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:38:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pilot27.cl.msu.edu (pilot27.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.47]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28273 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:57:22 -0800 Received: from wks4lan (dhcp64.lnngmimn.acd.net [207.179.90.64]) by pilot27.cl.msu.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f1L3vCs03282 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:57:12 -0500 From: "Adam Keith" To: Subject: RE: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:57:29 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3A8E3B12@webmail.mscd.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have to say I can see why planting could be considered a different move, but in my opinion they are the same move done sylisticly different. My first suggestion is to call them perhaps "crispy" or "original" gyros (just like torque), because for simplicity's sake I wish we could just call moves with the same components the same name. However, since I don't think enough people will agree on this can we just come up with a name for "gyro w/ plant" (I also like spyro), so that I can add it to the dictionary I'm beginning to need to decipher the footbag language. Happy shredding, Adam Keith From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Feb 20 23:36:58 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA32497 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 23:36:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail1.rdc2.bc.home.com (mail1.rdc2.bc.home.com [24.2.10.84]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32033 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:59:11 -0800 Received: from johnlopes ([24.67.226.156]) by mail1.rdc2.bc.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010221055858.XBTT25888.mail1.rdc2.bc.home.com@johnlopes> for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:58:58 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01c09bcb$5354b2e0$9ce24318@kldt1.bc.wave.home.com> From: "Jeff Lopes" To: Subject: [freestyle] Guiltless Training and Progress Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:58:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What are you doing?! Im shredding of course up here in Beautiful British Columbia! My first question for the list, is what people were hitting or are hitting after 2 years of serious freestyling?? My second question for the list, is what advise would you give someone who has been shredding for 2 years on how to increase the variety in there guiltless shred? Anyone have any drills? Id really appreciate some feedback on this. Thanks! Jeff Lopes K-Town Shred Kelowna Freestyle From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Feb 20 23:37:01 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA32507 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 23:37:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matt Cross Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.8]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32634 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:24:25 -0800 Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id z.96.10536920 (5708) for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:23:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from web30.aolmail.aol.com (web30.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.6]) by air-id04.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:23:46 -0500 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:23:46 EST Subject: [freestyle] cheap lavers on e-bay To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <96.10536920.27c4b8f2@aol.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey all, 2 pairs of cheap lavers on e-bay. if I were you, I'd contact the seller first, find out which country the shoes were made in, and buy the pair from the better country... I'm not sure where the best lavers come from, I'm pretty sure it's italy, but don't buy them if they're made in china... those suck. Mine were made in croatia, and they've been holding up very well for the past few years. I'm not sure if i'm supposed to list prices or not because then this becomes a financial transaction or something... but they're cheap. Check it out. Matt Cross University of Rochester Rochester, NY From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Feb 20 23:37:00 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA32502 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 23:37:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (ha2.rdc2.tx.home.com [24.14.77.21]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32062 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:00:48 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([65.10.4.236]) by mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010221060036.EZIH17546.mail.rdc2.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:00:36 -0800 Message-ID: <3A935B5C.29561636@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:08:28 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam Keith CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Adam Keith wrote: > > for simplicity's sake I wish we could just call moves > with the same components the same name. Boy howdy. Me too. > can we just come up with a name for "gyro w/ plant" > (I also like spyro), Whoa... hold up. The point isn't to come up with a name that means "gyro with a plant". We need a name that encompasses *all* back spinning same side moves. If we stick with the old gyro concept, don't forget that: 1) it must be set from clipper, 2) a dex must be involved, 3) the first dex must be done with the setting leg, and of course 4) you can't plant It isn't just about the plant. The plant has been talked about a lot recently, but it isn't the only thing. Think about gyro swirl. Man, that one doesn't seem to fit. Or gyro clipper. That doesn't exist under the old definition. Or fairy gyro moves. They wouldn't exist either. If spyro is to be used, let's not make it as constrained as the old gyro... that would just create the need for even more names. There are 4 restrictions on the old gyro concept. I would say that these restrictions do nothing but create the need for more names. If you look at the subject of this thread, you will remember that it started out as people bitching about the number of names floating around. I find it a bit ironic that this very thread has turned into one creating more names. I'm still hoping that the gyro concept can evolve like the symposium and paradox concepts have done. But, if gyro is stuck in the past when complicated moves weren't as common, then we might be needing the spyro term. Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Feb 21 09:28:04 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01489 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:28:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Kenny Shults Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.2]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14072 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 07:56:49 -0800 Received: from KenShults@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id r.47.7b75239 (3968); Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:55:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <47.7b75239.27c53ef8@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:55:36 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Atomic sets. To: circle_lord@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 127 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I know of at least all of the following 6's that have been hit that end on a toe. There may be more. Genzu - Shooting double leg over which I think would be 6. Pete - Blurry symposium blur. Me - Spinning backside symposium blur Me - Gyro backside symposium blur Me - Spinning backside symposium blizzard Kenny Shults From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Feb 21 09:28:02 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01484 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:28:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com (bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com [205.145.1.251]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12423 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 07:00:37 -0800 Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <19GHHWCZ>; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:01:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88478210@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Riefer, Robert" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Let's move on... (Was: Enough with the names/gyr o) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:01:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >-----Original Message----- >From: Derric Scalf [mailto:derric@dallasfootbag.org] >Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 1:08 AM > >If >you look at the subject of this thread, you will remember that it >started out as people bitching about the number of names floating >around. Correct me if I'm wrong here.. I took the original thread to be a knock against unnecessary naming of moves that don't require a funky name (like toe stall or pdx mirage..) and also to be a knock against naming dozens of moves in one post, when the moves have been being hit for awhile and have been accepted as being named as a combination of concepts. This sort of naming moves as a combination of components isn't unusual if you look at other freestyle sports. Skateboarding has the "rail slide". Pretty descriptive. Pretty simple. Why go back later and change this name to something else? Naming a new complex move that you've invented and perfected has always been acceptable from what I've read. Besides.... What's in a name? >I find it a bit ironic that this very thread has turned into >one creating more names. I don't. We're making sure a concept is correctly defined as it was originally intended. Those that were hitting gyro moves first have the right to name and define the concept. Just because Eli is OK with atomic being leggy or hippy doesn't mean that someone else has to be OK with their definition of a concept they created being changed. Besides again.... I've got to say that if Peter, Rippin, and Kenny can all agree on a concept definition, who is anyone else to say "No way!". That's just ridiculous in my opinion. No offense meant to anybody, but c'mon... We're talking about some of the foremost innovators of the sport here?! I'd say that gyro is defined. If there is another concept in the mix, let's define it separately, and give up on trying to change something that's been around for quite awhile. later on. Bob Riefer Philly Footworks From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Feb 21 09:28:06 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01494 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:28:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15309 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:34:16 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) id <0G940B2018OMW7@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:33:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G940B2018OMW8@clem.mscd.edu>; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:33:58 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:33:58 -0700 (MST) From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Guiltless Training and Progress In-reply-to: <000f01c09bcb$5354b2e0$9ce24318@kldt1.bc.wave.home.com> To: Jeff Lopes Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Jeff Lopes wrote: > What are you doing?! Replying to this post, drinking an import. > My first question for the list, is what people were hitting or are hitting > after 2 years of serious freestyling?? Man that's a Loaded question. People like Ken Somolinos and James Risden are nuts in there shred. I don't even think James has been kicking 2 years yet and he's hitting all kinds of 5's and 6's. When I first saw Ken he was just about at 2 years and was hitting Ripped Warrior and Haze and all kinds of other huge stuff. Myself, I was hitting a few 4's like torque and ripwalk and could hit shooting butterfly on occasion, but I was still tilting at 2 years (3years ago). > My second question for the list, is what advise would you give someone who > has been shredding for 2 years on how to increase the variety in there > guiltless shred? Anyone have any drills? Anyone out there who wants to improve their game should READ THE MOVE LIST. It is the FREESTYLE BIBLE. Yes there are many moves that aren't on there, but almost every move that is there is a staple (except maybe some of the flapper and triple spin stuff). Drills are Easy to come up with. Look over the move list and practice every trick both sides. Then start linking two or three trick combos that will work both sides of each trick equally. Good luck, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Feb 21 21:22:19 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA03277 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:22:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f111.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.111]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21899 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:24:54 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:23:02 -0800 Received: from 128.148.191.142 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:23:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.191.142] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "Ken Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Atomic sets. Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:23:02 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Feb 2001 19:23:02.0527 (UTC) FILETIME=[B54F98F0:01C09C3B] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey dudes. Kenny wrote: >I know of at least all of the following 6's that have been hit that end on >a toe. There may be more. I think the original question was whether or not any toe-to-toe 6 add moves have been hit, ie beginning and ending on toe. I can't think of any offhand, but Sunil's toe bedwetter and Yax's fairy egg come to mind as some of the cooler toe-toe monstrosities. Shred. Ken From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Feb 21 21:28:32 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA03289 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:28:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26169 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:04:12 -0800 Received: from pacbell.net ([64.162.179.243]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G9400LURKMK0Y@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:51:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:51:13 -0800 From: Chris Pinkus Subject: Re: [freestyle] Atomic sets. To: freestyle footbag Reply-to: pinkus@footbag.org Message-id: <3A942A41.F5DD8463@pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf References: <47.7b75239.27c53ef8@aol.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Just out of curiousity, has anyone ever hit a toe set 6-adder that ends on a toe? Even if it's a quintuple spinning toe stall set from toe. Chris Pinkus Kenny Shults wrote: > I know of at least all of the following 6's that have been hit that end on a > toe. There may be more. > > Genzu - Shooting double leg over which I think would be 6. > Pete - Blurry symposium blur. > Me - Spinning backside symposium blur > Me - Gyro backside symposium blur > Me - Spinning backside symposium blizzard From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Feb 21 21:28:36 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA03299 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:28:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.clearsail.net (mail.clearsail.net [207.252.227.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06735 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:13:55 -0800 Received: from rtgilber (216-148-160-227.clearsail.net [216.148.160.227]) by mail.clearsail.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA98006 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:39:08 -0600 (CST) From: "James Gilbert" To: Subject: RE: [freestyle] Let's move on... Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:09:38 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88478210@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Rob Riefer wrote: >This sort of naming moves as a combination of components isn't unusual if >you look at other freestyle sports. Skateboarding has the "rail slide". >Pretty descriptive. Pretty simple. Why go back later and change this name >to something else? not to be picky or anything but... Actually it's called a "boardslide", frontside or backside, depending on which way you face :) Frontside boardslide: your back is facing the way you are moving Backside boardslide: your front is facing the way you are moving I seems like it should be the other way around though. I guess skateboarders can't even name tricks without creating confusion :) peace, James Gilbert From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Feb 21 21:28:41 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA03309 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:28:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f201.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.201]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09594 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:32:31 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:31:55 -0800 Received: from 204.186.202.154 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 03:31:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [204.186.202.154] From: "Ray Adams" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Free size 10 Lavers Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 03:31:55 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Feb 2001 03:31:55.0372 (UTC) FILETIME=[010C8AC0:01C09C80] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey stylers, i've got a FREE pair of size 10 lavers for whoever wants to pay shipping - let's say 7 bucks. alright you know what to do. later. Ray [P.S. Moderator's Note: Please don't reply to all .. If you're interested, reply directly to Ray. If anyone cc's the list on a reply to this message I'll have to drain the bits out of their computer using my mad ninja skills. -Steve] From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Feb 21 22:01:48 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA03366 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:01:48 -0800 Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03363 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:01:48 -0800 Received: from llic.net (llic.net [209.125.90.2]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14858 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:57:38 -0800 Received: from [209.125.90.60] (vpn-24-16-30-212.corp.home.net [24.16.30.212]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA18626 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:57:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: Host vpn-24-16-30-212.corp.home.net [24.16.30.212] claimed to be [209.125.90.60] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.21 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:57:07 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Hotmail users beware Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Folks, Sorry but since Hotmail seems to have recently "upgraded" their system to send HTML mail automatically, and there doesn't seem to be an option in Hotmail to turn this feature off, I am going to reject each and every post that comes from a hotmail account until they offer a way to turn html off. I don't have a choice; this list cannot handle HTML right now, and I don't have the time to find new list management software. (Please don't write me with leads on software; I know the names of about 15 different list management packages; that's not the point. I don't have the time to redo this.) So, if you want to post to the freestyle list and you currently have a hotmail address, you'll need to find another web mail system to use to post your messages. Of course, since I built Excite's mail system, I can't help but think it's the best alternative. http://inbox.excite.com/ Please if anyone can figure out how to turn off HTML mail in hotmail, post instructions to the list. Thanks. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 22 22:58:48 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06884 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:58:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ems.salk.edu (ems.salk.edu [198.202.69.12]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13235 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:42:25 -0800 Received: from [198.202.67.60] (198.202.67.60) by ems.salk.edu (Worldmail 1.3.167) for freestyle@footbag.org; 22 Feb 2001 14:46:31 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:48:12 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Cameron Kennedy Subject: [freestyle] San Fran 2-27 ? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I will be in San francisco for business on Mon 2-27-01 I figure most everyone is at the colorado jam, but if anyone wants to get together let me know. -- cam From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 23 08:23:40 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA08276 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:23:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f34.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.34]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13526 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 06:44:12 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 06:43:36 -0800 Received: from 128.206.120.240 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:43:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.240] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Hotmail issues... Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:43:35 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Feb 2001 14:43:36.0213 (UTC) FILETIME=[00A29C50:01C09DA7] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org According to Hotmail's customer support, outgoing messages do not default to HTML. They have to be set that way. Right above the dialog box is the Rich Text Format option which really translates to HTML. Makes sure it is unchecked. Ian D. [P.S. Moderator's Note: RTF is actually different than HTML but hotmail gets this wrong (those idiots). They should label it HTML. Also, it seems some people *are* having this as their default so it must remember the setting of your last message. Check this every time and make sure it is unchecked. Finally, Mac users don't have to worry about this at all because currently Hotmail doesn't support HTML for Mac clients. This is why I couldn't figure it out when I tried last month. -Steve] >Dear Hotmail Member: > >Thank you for writing to Hotmail Support. > >I understand your need to send messages in text format from your Hotmail account. > >When you Compose a message please uncheck the check box Rich Text Format. This step will enable you to send the messages in text format. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Feb 25 14:40:50 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15566 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 14:40:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f50.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.50]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17305 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 14:31:18 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 14:31:02 -0800 Received: from 139.80.123.34 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 22:31:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.34] From: "Jono Heyes" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] twirling moves Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:31:02 +1300 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Feb 2001 22:31:02.0380 (UTC) FILETIME=[A24792C0:01C09F7A] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hi, is there any footage out there of a twirling blender, or perhaps even a whirling twirling blender, or dyno for that matter. I'd love to see it. Cheers Jono From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Feb 25 17:00:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06511 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:00:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web218.mail.yahoo.com (web218.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.118]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA21345 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:35:21 -0800 Message-ID: <20010226003514.8710.qmail@web218.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.4.254.129] by web218.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:35:14 PST Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:35:14 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zerbe Subject: [freestyle] peeking spinning osis?? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Everyone!! How was the Symposium? I hope everyone had a great time. I'm looking forward to hearing who hit what and what all went down including who made bap. Jane and I skooled today and I hit a new move for me. I'm sure someone else has hit this and I was wondering what it is called. You start the move with a back spin from a clipper, after spotting the bag you spin in the other direction and do a spinning (inspinning?) osis. Hopfully you can understand my description. Jane hit ripwalk, dlo, paradon and ducking butterfly, butterfly, spinning butterfly and paradon, dyno, torque and ducking same clipper, ducking op clipper, gyro mirage. I hope all you northern cali folks are coming up for Eugene. I'll see you all there. Zerbe From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Feb 25 19:39:05 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA07044 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:39:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web10709.mail.yahoo.com (web10709.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.70]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA28804 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:32:51 -0800 Message-ID: <20010226033244.9581.qmail@web10709.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.189.152.118] by web10709.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:32:44 PST Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:32:44 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Del Borrello Subject: [freestyle] coming to Florida To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey guys, for the March Break, I am gonna be hanging out on the Indian Shores (did I spell that right?)anyway. I'm not gonna have many things to do other than skateboard and shred, so I was wondering if anyone was interested in getting a session going down there. e-mail me personally and we'll hook something up. Someone PLEASE reply, I hate shredding alone! Michael Del Borrello From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Feb 26 09:04:40 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09014 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:04:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f212.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.212]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA08943 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 03:48:51 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 03:48:15 -0800 Received: from 213.21.21.94 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:48:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [213.21.21.94] From: "Fabian Kollakowski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Worlds 2000 - Impressions Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:48:14 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Feb 2001 11:48:15.0243 (UTC) FILETIME=[00E33DB0:01C09FEA] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I thought you freestylers might be interested in some world championships 2000 shred video. I have put some another video online. The file is a bit big (7.3 MB), the quality is kinda good though. Fortunecity is causing some problems, so if you like to get it, click on the first link (test1.mpg) on this page: http://members.fortunecity.de/faborz/qdd.htm And dont worry about the contents :) (you unfortenately have to visit the page to download the video) By the way, who's coming to the European Championships this summer? Fabian From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Feb 26 12:07:06 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09512 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:07:06 -0800 Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24306 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:54:01 -0800 Received: from hilbert.math.psu.edu (hilbert.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.197]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13509 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:53:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (faber@localhost) by hilbert.math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29906 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:53:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: hilbert.math.psu.edu: faber owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:53:52 -0500 (EST) From: Alexander Faber To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] UCSF Jam Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What's up freestyle community? I've been off the discussion list for a while now, so I hope this hasn't been touched on yet. Who's planning on going to the UCSF Jam at the very end of March? I ask this because the Penn State Trio is in the process of trying to organize an east coast smurf style get-together for that very same weekend. I was hoping to find out who might be interested. For anyone that isn't up on the dates, the weekend we're shooting for is March 30 - April 1. You can reply to me personally at faber@math.psu.edu. Shred on everybody. We hope to see you before too long. Alex Faber Integer, of PST From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Feb 26 23:34:22 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA11393 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:34:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f68.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.68]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09220 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:22:44 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:22:08 -0800 Received: from 207.148.144.17 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 03:22:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.148.144.17] From: "Rob Fuller" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] New Set? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:22:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2001 03:22:08.0080 (UTC) FILETIME=[770FA500:01C0A06C] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all I have a possible new set but I'm not sure about it. I was toying around with my pixie sets today after school, I was doing some pixie ducking....(my usual drill for pixies)...and started to think of doing some other concepts after the pixie in place of the duck. The only one that really came to mind that I hadn't heard much about was pixie gyro. So after about 2 try's I sealed a smooth pixie gyro butterfly. Must have been a fluke cuz I can't do any other gyro moves. I thought that a cool name for this set would be a PYRO set. Tell me if anyone has hit this. Peace out Rob Fuller From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Feb 26 23:36:29 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA11414 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:36:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (qmail 5802 invoked by uid 0); 26 Feb 2001 22:26:23 -0000 Received: from du-019-496.access.de.clara.net (HELO quarktasche) (213.221.69.241) by mail.gmx.net (mp007-rz3) with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 22:26:23 -0000 Message-ID: <003501c0a042$c7350400$f145ddd5@quarktasche> From: "Matthias Lino Schmidt" To: footbag@list.footbag.org, freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Tournament Report: Todexon, Praha Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:23:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ladies and Gentlemen, Again there was a promising trip to the east to make, we squeezed ourselves into the car and reached Prague, capital of Czech Republic, at friday night. On Saturday the competition right at the main square (and in this city it is really the *main* square) of Prague took place. All my expectations got topped. There were 32 competitors, playing at a level that I first worried about reaching the second round. After qualifying, semi- and final round, Justin Sexton was first (did anyone dare to expect something else?), I had at least reached the finals and a new star was manifested: Vasek Klouda. 14-year-old kid from Prague, playing since last summer, became second in the competition (by this beating Juho Vesa, Jan Zimmermann and more...) and is playing sick as hell! You won't believe me until you've seen him, but I can say: He'll be hitting everything! When I first saw him playing this afternoon, he was doing combos like Ripwalk > Blur > Legbeater, later that day he hit Nuclear stuff, came close to Atomic Barrage (any special name?), hit Fusion and came damn close to Your Mom! Trust me, it should be caught on video.... Not that he's only doing some big moves without control, basics and style, no, he's hitting them clean and certain, did two or three drops in his runs, combined with basic moves and flow'n'style! Words can't explain this (as you maybe see, I am struggling for every formulation), I hope there will be videos online really soon, that the whole world is witness of the uprising of a new star to the sky of footbag! But Vasek is just an extreme example for Czech Republic. There are more kids progressing incredibily fast, moves like Stepping Down Double Down, Double Spinning Clipper, Superfly and more sick shit were hit right in front of my eyes. I'd say there are about 4 more guys the world will have to see. Not only the player's skills were cool, also the surroundings. The site of the competition was just one large room in the first floor at Wenceslas Square, with carpet on the ground, the walls embellished by graffity artists, comfortable sofas all around, the playing arena encircled by chairs and benches for spectators and a bar in another room offering drinks and some food. The room's atmosphere built the foundations for a great atmosphere among the spectators... And while we're waiting for the videos, I can at least offer some photos I got from Jan *Dexter* Struz, find them at www.michaelborbonus.de, it's my father's domain, so thanks to him.... And again, just like after coming back from Budapest, I have to say: Watch out, America! ;o) And this time it's more serious, there's something really massive going on over here! Your Eastern Europe Correspondent, Matthias Lino Schmidt....... From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Feb 27 12:13:30 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA13641 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:13:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ucsub.colorado.edu (ucsub.Colorado.EDU [128.138.129.12]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05377 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:45:46 -0800 Received: (from schneija@localhost) by ucsub.colorado.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0/ITS-5.0/standard) id f1RJjck03200 for Freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:45:38 -0700 (MST) From: Jon Schneider Message-Id: <200102271945.f1RJjck03200@ucsub.colorado.edu> Subject: [freestyle] More Shred Symposium Info To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:45:38 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Again. Now a more personal perspective on the Shred Symposium. Again, I don't know where to start. The Shred was awesome! Many of us started out on Friday shredding at Garkie's Studio, where most of Tricks of the Trade Two was filmed. Everyone involved with that got a new pair of Lavers, courtesy of Bruce G. and the WFA, and a sweet new footbag from Kenny Shults and Carol Wedemeyer. I felt a little guilty accepting those gifts, since I would have paid them for the chance to be on that tape. I also got to drive the WFA van! Tons of phat tricks and combos were hit during the shred conference and on film, and Eric Wulff hit the Timber Wolf, a leaning Mobius. I worried all day about everyone else who was getting into town that day, since I was busy and couldn't meet them all and find them a place to shred, but Adrian Garcia and Mike Wilson took care of that detail for me. When I got back to the host hotel from Garkie's, I found they had leaned the beds of their hotel room up against the walls to make room for a shred circle. With at least eight people in that circle, and going on all day and night, it was one of the best shred circles I kicked in this weekend. Nice work guys! The Symposium itself began at about 11:00 am the next day, and I want to say thanks for all the people who came out early to help set up, including Brad Kaplan, Eli Piltz, Sam Colclough and Bryan Fournier, and Dave Holton. Sorry if I have forgotten anyone. It all just grew from there. I didn't get to see that much of the shred on saturday or sunday 'cause I was running around so much, but everything went off pretty smoothly, and we packed that place full of freestyle, just like Chinese fingercuffs. Thanks to Tuan Vu, Greg Nelson, and James Roberts for MCing the open shred contest, I was able to compete both days. On Saturday, The Torch went off and was in the lead after the first round. Paul Mestes of Revolution Footbags offered up a cash prize for the first person to go dropless, and with an awesome performance, including a very dramatic save, Peter Irish took that prize home. There was a lot of impressive shred in the intermediate catagory too. Malik Berger popped in as if from thin air and busted many smooth rakes and sole stall to cross body sole stall. It was Kavin Thiffault who led the shred on the first day though, with a HUGE routine. I'm not letting him go intermediate next year. Sunday went off even smoother than Saturday. Kenny Shults showed up nice and early with a small camera crew from Garkies and many shredders got another shot at getting something cool on TofT2. I was grateful for the chance when I finally hit flipwalk in front of the camera. So many things went our way this weekend, not least of which was the weather, and in the middle of February in Colorado it was warm enough to do that filming outside the Toadstool. The Shred contest on Sunday was even bigger than the day before, and it seemed like everybody topped their previous performance. Dave, Chad, Daryl, and especially Sunil just shredded so hard it made my else bleed. But Lon Smith just keeps getting better and better, and packed in Thirty One unique moves into his run. combined with one of the highest ADD ratios, his score was just through the roof. In the intermediate shred also everybody stepped it up and shredded even harder than on Saturday, but it was Samuel Jobin's turn to really go off, and he surpassed even Kavin's high score from the day before. In any case, those guys from Quebec really must be eating their Shreddies. We were able to score most of the shred routines at the site and I got to be the candy man again, handing out prizes to almost a dozen shredders. I've got to give special thanks to Richie Abshire, Jane Jones, Mel Schneider, Eli Piltz, Ben West, Paul Mestes and Daryl Genz for kicking down so much good stuff. Its not easy, though, giving away all those footbags and freestyle videos. The special Lavers were the hardest thing to give up though. I'd really have liked to keep them for myself. One more ceremony was carried out immediately after the prizes were distributed when Yacine Merzouk, Allan Haggett, and Richie Abshire were inducted into the Big ADD Posse. Congradulations guys! Finally, good luck smiled down on us again when after dinner we got away with kicking in the Glenn Miller Ballroom on CU campus till midnight. We even had two Footbag Foursquares going in there. There's going to be a Foursquare contest at next year's Symposium, if not before. Thanks again to everybody who came all the way from North Carolina, Texas, British Columbia and Quebec, Michigan, the strong turnouts from the Chicago area and California. Thanks to everybody who helped me set up and run the tournament, judge the shred routines and clean up the Toadstool when we were done. Thanks Dave for helping get lots of people from one place to another and for lending me the van to return our lights. Thanks to Rippin' and Tuan for funding extended hours of shred in the Toadstool on Saturday. Because of you guys I actually got to play some footbag that day. My sincerest thanks go to Kenny Shults and Bruce Guettich for making Tricks of the Trade Two happen and inviting me to participate, for supporting this tournament financially, and for getting so many awesome freestylers to come out to Boulder. Thanks to Eli Piltz and Brad Kaplan for supporting me mentally. Without them I'd have snapped long ago. Thanks to Ernest Crvich for all his help. Thanks to Hugh Castor for the massages. Sorry about the pipes. And Thanks again the Brad Kaplan, who was as much responcible for this tournament as anyone, who got us some of our best prizes, who arranged for all those bottles of spring water and cups so we weren't stuck using that crummy little water fountain (i never would have even thought of the water), for getting us our only financial support to come from outside the sport (The Wizard's Chest), for driving me around and helping me pick up and drop off the lights, etc, etc, etc. If not for Brad's dedication this would not have been half the tournament it was. Jonathan Schneider Outsider@footbag.org From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Feb 28 14:39:40 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18485 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:39:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ucsub.colorado.edu (ucsub.Colorado.EDU [128.138.129.12]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28974 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:24:47 -0800 Received: (from schneija@localhost) by ucsub.colorado.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0/ITS-5.0/standard) id f1SMOdG22381 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:24:40 -0700 (MST) From: Jon Schneider Message-Id: <200102282224.f1SMOdG22381@ucsub.colorado.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Symposium Leftovers To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:24:39 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Everybody! I have a few articles of clothing that I picked up from the Toadstool Playhouse. Some of them I'm sure were left behind by shredders. If there is anything you are missing, I'll be sure to search for it in my lost-and-found box, just drop me a line. Jonathan Schneider Outsider@footbag.org From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Feb 28 21:34:06 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19940 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:34:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web12807.mail.yahoo.com (web12807.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.42]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA09772 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:38:41 -0800 Message-ID: <20010227033835.23580.qmail@web12807.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.8.168.43] by web12807.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:38:35 PST Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:38:35 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Baker Subject: [freestyle] Eugene!! To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I love footbag!! I am so glad have had the opportunity to meet so many wonderful people through this awsome sport. I am glad people have the chance to get into a sport that is not so gung ho about winning. Keep up the positivity in the community all. How was the symposium?? WHat were the phattest combo's hit?? WHo?? Well on another note I am writing all to invite you all to eugene for The EUGENE FREESTYLE FREEKOUT!!! If you are in the area you should come jam with some great people like Alex and jane, toby robinson, tricia george and all of the eugene shredders. THere has even been rumor that that shred on lon may come up for this jam of positive energy. SOme others that have told me maybe are people like alen haggett and the genzu and mel. You should come and support one of the many homes of freestyle it is going to be fun. All the info of course is on footbag.org and you can e-mail me at wander_lust81@hotmail.com or this address I also got some sweet prizes for this event like some of the best footbag videos out there by Zohar production just to name one of them. IF you can't come stay positive and spread the sport teach people how to jam and above all don't have a flipside!!! Peace matt From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Feb 28 21:34:10 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19945 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:34:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web12806.mail.yahoo.com (web12806.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.41]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA13850 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:26:07 -0800 Message-ID: <20010301052601.85504.qmail@web12806.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.8.168.26] by web12806.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:26:01 PST Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:26:01 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Baker Subject: [freestyle] Bap names?? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Congrats to all who got inducted into BAP!! SO what are there nicknames if any?? How many times a year is there people baptized?? I really don't know the low down on the Big Add Posse so if anyone wants to inform me or give me the low down I would appreciate it. Keep eatin your shreddies!! IT does a body good. Peace matt