From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:18:15 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26238 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:18:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f207.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.207]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28601 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:17:56 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:17:19 -0800 Received: from 211.216.216.99 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 00:17:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [211.216.216.99] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 00:17:19 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2001 00:17:19.0889 (UTC) FILETIME=[573E7810:01C08BE4] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The esteemed Kenny Shults wrote: >I'd like to suggest that the term Gyro be reserved for tricks that involve >a clipper set to a back spin to an inside-out dex with the set leg done >without a plant as in mobius and vortex That would be a tad silly as gyro (or gyro butterfly, if you will), the move the set was named for, would no longer qualify. >And what's the deal with all this trick naming. Cool it please. Us old > >guys have enough trouble keeping track of all the names for new > >categories like atomic, pixie, fairy, nuclear, much less all the > >individual move names. I agree, and I don't agree. The sheer volume of named tricks is such that it's nearly impossible for an individual to keep up. On the other hand, some of the moves are getting so outrageously complex that the "technical names" are becoming totally unwieldy. I remember trying to give a move by move commentary of a BAP schred circle on camera at 97' worlds. It's more than hard enough when all the tricks are only one word. Just something to think about. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:17:00 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26231 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:17:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f37.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.37]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18663 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:22:32 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:21:56 -0800 Received: from 128.148.191.142 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:21:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.191.142] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "KeN Somolinos" To: mklewand@students.wisc.edu, KenShults@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:21:55 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2001 21:21:56.0014 (UTC) FILETIME=[D68694E0:01C08BCB] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, > >Kenny wrote: > > >And what's the deal with all this trick naming. Cool it please. And Matt Kain Lewandowski wrote: >It doesn't need to >be called an "Armageddon Death Bringer" or a "Samurai Showdown Blood Child" My personal favorite was Ernest Crvich's proposal to rename "toe stall" "corpsegrinder." CF From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:19:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26256 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:19:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web220.mail.yahoo.com (web220.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.120]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA03154 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:14:41 -0800 Message-ID: <20010201031434.43370.qmail@web220.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.0.224.35] by web220.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:14:34 PST Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:14:34 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zerbe Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: Kenny Shults , freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <6c.756f4f2.27a964ab@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Kenny and the List, --- Kenny Shults wrote: > I'd like to suggest that the term Gyro be reserved > for tricks that involve a > clipper set to a back spin to an inside-out dex with > the set leg done without > a plant I don't feel this way. I think the term gyro should be used to mean back spin from any set and then execute a trick on that particular side of your body. Let me explain. I feel this way because the definition you want to use would make things much more complicated. What would we call gyro moves with a plant? What would we call gyro clipper? gyro butterfly (the first move to be called gyro)? gyrosis, gyro legover, and many other established tricks. Also with your definition of gyro, gyro swirl would actually be a spinning clipper with the extra swril dex, and what I believe should be called gyro swril would not really have a name because you couldn't really call it gyro or spinning. > > And what's the deal with all this trick naming. Cool > it please. Us old guys > have enough trouble keeping track of all the names > for new categories like > atomic, pixie, fairy, nuclear, much less all the > individual move names. I agree. But if we keep the definition of gyro broad, we can keep some move name simple, at least the gyro ones. So Kenny, what do you think, does my point have some validity to it?? Let me know. Thanks, Zerbe From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:21:27 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26270 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:21:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f311.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.18.186]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03518 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:21:29 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:20:52 -0800 Received: from 132.241.246.120 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 03:20:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [132.241.246.120] From: "Tara Ohr" Subject: [freestyle] paradox refraction To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:20:51 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2001 03:20:52.0324 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB2AB240:01C08BFD] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello everyone I usually don't participate in shred talk, but Austin was asking me about a trick that I need some clarification with. What is a paradox refraction in Jobs and how many adds is it? Thanks from Austin and myself (that kid is back and he has the bug bad!!!!!!!!!! :-) tara From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:22:49 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26283 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:22:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web217.mail.yahoo.com (web217.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.117]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA03836 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:31:23 -0800 Received: (qmail 15535 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Feb 2001 03:31:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20010201033116.15534.qmail@web217.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.0.224.35] by web217.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:31:16 PST Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:31:16 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zerbe Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: Kenny Shults , freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <6c.756f4f2.27a964ab@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey again, I'm sorry to post a second e-mail, but I just thought of another revelant example. When Lon hit mobius to mobius at western regionals '99 he plants on the second mobius. Would you say then that he didn't really hit it because when he planted the move wasn't really gyro and therefore not a mobius? I understand why you say a gyro move with a plant can't be gyro. I think that this is a minor technicality and shouldn't be taken into consideration, just for the sake of simplicity. I definitly think that if you can do a move, gyro or otherwise, without planting that it makes it much more stylie. But I do think that this is just an issue of style and shouldn't be taken into consideration when naming or defining moves. Opposed to symposium when the plant actually changes the nature of the move. So Kenny, tell me what you think about Lon's mobius' and all this other useless babble. Zerbe From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:23:00 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26294 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:23:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Kenny Shults Received: from imo-r19.mx.aol.com (imo-r19.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.73]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03759 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:30:43 -0800 Received: from KenShults@aol.com by imo-r19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id z.6.118afb90 (4206) for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:29:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6.118afb90.27aa3235@aol.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:29:57 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have to correct my recommendation on Gyro. I mistakenly suggested that the dex only be inside out but the only real important factor to me that makes the trick Gyro is not planting the setting foot before the spin and dex whether the dex is inside out or outside in doesn't matter. Sorry about the confusion. To Brad's question about Big Apple my answer would be no it's not Gyro because in Big Apple you plant the set foot before the dex, and since you planted the set foot it can't be Gyro. Kenny From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:23:37 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26306 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:23:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Kenny Shults Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.5]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04508 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:52:54 -0800 Received: from KenShults@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id r.95.6516496 (4206); Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:51:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <95.6516496.27aa375f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:51:59 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: zerbalicious@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I would have to say there's no such thing as a mobius with a plant. Mobius has no plant, therefore you can't do mobius to mobius with a plant. I guess I'd call it mobius to spinning torque (still a huge combo). I'd have to disagree about the lack of the plant being purely a style issue and doesn't change the move. For me it changes the move dramatically and is in fact the essence of the Gyro family. It really kind of surprised me when I heard people using Gyro to describe tricks that weren't Gyro (according to what I had thought was a fairly old and stable trick category definition). From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:38:24 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26362 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:38:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1203.mail.yahoo.com (web1203.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.139]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA04659 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:58:19 -0800 Received: (qmail 20617 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Feb 2001 03:58:12 -0000 Message-ID: <20010201035812.20616.qmail@web1203.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.66.70.204] by web1203.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:58:12 PST Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:58:12 -0800 (PST) From: Joel Dion Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list. The last thing I thought I would ever do is disagree with my hero Kenny (I am not necessarily disagreeing with him.) and I don`t expect everyone to agree with me , but under the assumption that every opinion counts... I love all the move naming and encourage a different name for every move. I think it is great sign of how fast our sport is growing , and can do nothing but benefit us in the long run. You can`t have too many names just like you can`t have too many moves. If we stop inventing new tricks THEN we can stop naming them. There was discussion on this list a while back about ways to make our sport more " main stream ." Promotion of our stars ,making of quality videos ect... I think this is one of the ways to make our sport more interesting to more people. To always have another move or name you can learn would be cool. The sooner you`ve figured out everything there is to know about something the sooner you lose interest. People (especially young people) WANT to buy Kenny Shults and Ryan Mulroney posters, they WANT kick ass videos and I think they would LOVE to be able to order the "2005 Official Moves of Footbag" booklet with over 1000 named moves. What better way to show the world how complex and colorful our sport is , or how creative its athleats are. I want to be able to tell people in explaining the difficulties and intricacies of our sport ..." Did you know the record for consecutives is____ there are ____ clubs in ____ different countries and there are currently ____ different official named moves that can be performed in freestyle footbag." For all these numbers the bigger the better. Some people say they don`t want to have to learn all the move names. They don`t have to. Just like they don`t have to learn how to hit every move. As it stands now there are probably few people who know the names for all the moves that are on the list. It`s still cool to be able to look up the Fairy Mirage you just hit and find out it`s called Fear. And besides , most names are variations of each other and have been well thought out, eg. Fear/Smear , Fudge/Smudge , Nova/Supernova/Novacaine to Flurricain I could go on and on. I think it`s only fair that we should be able to tell somebody the name of the move we just hit , or suggest a name if it does not have one yet. We`ve been doing a good job so far. :) O.K. I`m done. Thank You / Merci Joël Dion Hackrifice From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:38:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26377 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:38:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f81.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.81]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20042 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:49:16 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:48:39 -0800 Received: from 172.163.214.119 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:48:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [172.163.214.119] From: "jon nagela" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:48:39 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2001 21:48:39.0719 (UTC) FILETIME=[92688B70:01C08BCF] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, I also noticed on the dfc movelist that toe set spins are being called gyro if the dex is done with the opp leg from the setting foot, ex. right foot fairy set, counterclockwise spin, left leg mirage dex. To me that motion isnt gryro but should be called spinning whether it is from toe, pixie, or fairy. The gyro type move from toe is actually inspinning, ex.right foot fairy set, clockwise spin, and right leg dex. Inspinning paradox is also very possible from toe sets. I also recently started hitting a move that deserves a name because it is too looong a name- Paradox reverse miraging cross body rake, or Royal rake. Later, Jon Nagela >I'd like to suggest that the term Gyro be reserved for tricks that involve >a >clipper set to a back spin to an inside-out dex with the set leg done >without >a plant as in mobius and vortex >And what's the deal with all this trick naming. Cool it please. Us old guys From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:41:40 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26429 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:41:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02759 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:01:19 -0800 Received: from seamore.excite.com ([199.172.148.163]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010201030041.SVQB11387.fortune.excite.com@seamore.excite.com> for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:00:41 -0800 Message-ID: <1895987.980996441702.JavaMail.imail@seamore.excite.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:00:41 -0800 (PST) From: Yacine Merzouk To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Montreal Windchill - Feb. 10-11 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 64.228.242.71 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello freestyle world! This is Yacine writing about the upcoming Windchill tournament in Montreal, Qc, Canada. We will have a great freestyle tournament this winter. We already have 5 confirmed open competitors including Sebastien Duchesne and yours truly. We expect between 15 and 20 competitors to show up overall and about 10 more stylers who'll be here just for the kick of it. If you live within driving distance (12hours?) you definitely want to attend. All the freestylers here have sharpened their blades in prevision of the competiton February 10-11. I've heard we have decent net players too in the city. :) -Yacine From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:42:43 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26459 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:42:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f137.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.137]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29683 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:42:10 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:41:34 -0800 Received: from 139.80.123.34 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 00:41:33 GMT X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.34] From: "jono heyes" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] ducking swirl set? Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:41:33 +1300 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2001 00:41:34.0067 (UTC) FILETIME=[BA006C30:01C08BE7] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm curious to know if i'm wasting my time trying to duck a swirl set, has anyone ever performed such a feat? From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 14:56:30 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26560 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:56:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com (bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com [205.145.1.251]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09738 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:39:06 -0800 Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 17:39:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88478069@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Riefer, Robert" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Enough with the names Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 17:39:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Kenny wrote: >>And what's the deal with all this trick naming. And Andrew wrote: >I agree, and I don't agree... On the >other hand, some >of the moves are getting so outrageously complex that the >"technical names" >are becoming totally unwieldy. I also agree and disagree. While I think all the naming has at times gotten out of hand, the idea of naming *is* to make things simpler. I think the problem might be when twenty names are proposed at once... You'd need to carry around a cheat sheet to remember all of those new names! I can barely keep my shoes, footbags, socks, and shorts in one place, let alone a cheat sheet for footbag names! :-) I thought we were doing pretty good when people would write in after hitting a new move, and proposing a name for that ONE move. There aren't twenty new moves being created and hit daily, so keeping to this sort of naming schedule would be much easier to keep up with. My $1.50. Bob Riefer Philly Footworks From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 1 15:14:35 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26676 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:14:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f115.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.115]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10785 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:02:35 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:01:58 -0800 Received: from 199.249.158.70 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 23:01:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [199.249.158.70] From: "pete irish" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Names,names,names Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:01:58 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2001 23:01:58.0615 (UTC) FILETIME=[FAC48E70:01C08CA2] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "The name that can be spoken is not the true name" -Lao Tzu Tao Te Ching From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 09:33:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29059 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:33:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (ha1.rdc2.tx.home.com [24.14.77.20]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13799 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:16:27 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([65.10.4.236]) by mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010202001609.IIZP26394.mail.rdc2.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:16:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3A79F8DB.37CE4AB9@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:01:31 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Zerbe CC: Kenny Shults , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro References: <20010201031434.43370.qmail@web220.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > --- Kenny Shults wrote: > > I'd like to suggest that the term Gyro be reserved > > for tricks that involve a > > clipper set to a back spin to an inside-out dex with > > the set leg done without > > a plant Alex Zerbe wrote: > > I don't feel this way. I think the term gyro should be > used to mean back spin from any set and then execute a > trick on that particular side of your body. Let me > explain. I feel this way because the definition you > want to use would make things much more complicated. > What would we call gyro moves with a plant? What would > we call gyro clipper? gyro butterfly (the first move > to be called gyro)? gyrosis, gyro legover, and many > other established tricks. > Also with your definition of gyro, gyro swirl would > actually be a spinning clipper with the extra swril > dex, and what I believe should be called gyro swril > would not really have a name because you couldn't > really call it gyro or spinning. And I write: I totally agree with Alex here. Names only get complicated and, dare I say, necessary when you have such restrictive names of concepts (sets and such). Why can't you do a gyro set from a toe, outside or any other surface? Why can't you hit a gyro clipper? Why can't you plant before a dex in gyro moves? I say that you can. This is just my opinion. I've been all about making move names simple from the beginning. This starts by naming move components in a logical, methodical way. -Derric ----- End forwarded message ----- From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 09:33:45 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29064 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:33:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (ha1.rdc2.tx.home.com [24.14.77.20]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17452 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 17:52:26 -0800 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([65.10.4.236]) by mail.rdc2.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010202015214.JCHR26394.mail.rdc2.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 17:52:14 -0800 Message-ID: <3A7A0F5E.1218A344@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 19:37:34 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] paradox refraction References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tara Ohr wrote: > > What is a paradox refraction in Jobs and how many adds is it? No such thing as a paradox refraction. It looks cool and all, but the original contact for a refraction is in front of you (or at least not entirely in the x-bdy position). The bag is carried to a cross body position after the delay. Paradox requires the contact to be in the x-bdy position. Keep hittin them though... good looking moves. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 09:35:14 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29089 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:35:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25512 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 22:04:04 -0800 Received: from billy ([63.199.201.87]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G8400M0I8C3QY@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 21:52:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 21:55:32 -0800 From: Sam Colclough Subject: [freestyle] sharing rooms at the symposium To: Freestyle Mailing List Message-id: <008c01c08cdc$c1408a20$9b66fea9@billy> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority: 3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm looking for 2-3 people to split the cost of a room with me at the host hotel for the shred symposium. I;m predicting 2 beds.. 2 people in a bed 2 people on ground.. We rotate each night. I don't mind sleeping head to toe with someone else in a bed.. but that's just me.. so.. respond privately please. Rooms are like 80 or so ... so after we all split price it should be very cost effective. Don't forget to train!! heheh -sam oops - Sam Colclough OOPS! Footbag Club Hermosa Beach http://www.penny-lane.com/oops From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 09:40:04 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29111 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:40:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from r2t0w6 ([24.69.36.80]) by mail1.rdc2.bc.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010202055540.GSFZ25505.mail1.rdc2.bc.home.com@r2t0w6> for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 21:55:40 -0800 Message-ID: <003001c08cdd$3673e580$50244518@gvsa1.bc.wave.home.com> From: "Allan Haggett" To: References: <6c.756f4f2.27a964ab@aol.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 21:58:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I like having names for moves, the [small]problem I have is with trying to make them "official" in some way. One of my favorite analogies has always been of that of Freestyle to the guitar. With each complicated finger placement defining a chord[move], a series of chords[moves] put together writes a song[string/combo/routine]. Musicians name songs, not necessarily the individual chords that make it up(even truly innovative ones). How hard you strum can be as defining as the chord being strummed. Of course writing the music down[and therefore nomenclature] is of great importance, but not to the expense of making it so hard to read from area to area that no-one would ever be able to decipher something written in Finland over something written in So.Cal. Almost all of the component parts of all these 'named' moves have been defined already, and are widespread(Thanks Steve G., Adrian Dick, Damian Coventry, and Stuart MacFerson for the original moves list, and to Derric for his work with it :)). This not to say that you shouldn't name the individual moves you are hitting; that's fun and creative and lends itself to personalities of the individual's tying these moves up. This doesn't necessarily take away from the fact that these moves are made up the element's that are predefined, either. To illustrate the point: I've read many times on this list about moves hit in combo's that were given a 'name', but I didn't know what it was until someone else clarified it with Job's or a description(a common complaint on this list - what is 'Your Mom' anyway??). Many times I've also been hitting said move and didn't know it was 'called' that. Point being, that if you want to name a move you shouldn't just remove any reference to it's prefixes when trying to communicate it(especially over as vague a medium as an e-mail) until it's been widely accepted as an agreed upon name(using our limited means, for better or worse). Certainly, if someone were to hit an incredible new combo of prefixes that opened up doors for other moves based on it, then a name is definitely in order(SAUCE. (Hey Kenny, how about 'Gyro-Blurry' based moves being 'Saucy' ;) ), but these are more concepts than individual moves. At any rate, this wasn't meant to be a rant..... if you wanna name a move, name it, post it, cooool.... I love to read about shit like that; it's inspiring. I will always make time to read about it sooner or later. It's pretty easy to delete something if you don't like the subject as well. Ask Steve, there's nothing "Official" about this list anyway :) Peace, Allan H. http://footbag.dnsalias.net - a few new toys are up and running :) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 09:40:42 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29122 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:40:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ra.nilenet.com (ra.nilenet.com [204.227.31.1]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07171 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:14:16 -0800 Received: from nilenet.com (slip147.den.nilenet.net [206.247.97.170]) by ra.nilenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/12202000-01) with ESMTP id JAA12120 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:14:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3A7ADC57.48B6D5E6@nilenet.com> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:12:07 -0700 From: Daryl Genz Reply-To: genzu@footbag.org Organization: Revolution Footbags X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freestyle@footbag.org" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The esteemed Andrew McCargar wrote: > The esteemed Kenny Shults wrote: > > >I'd like to suggest that the term Gyro be reserved for tricks that involve > >a clipper set to a back spin to an inside-out dex with the set leg done > >without a plant as in mobius and vortex > > That would be a tad silly as gyro (or gyro butterfly, if you will), the move > the set was named for, would no longer qualify. I've always been under the impression that the term "gyro" mis-originated from the move originally called whirling gyro, which is now known as gyro whirl. After this, people started using gyro to name all sorts of things, like gyro butterfly. It seems that we're pretty much stuck with the name as it is now...? (But read on). As far as the planting vs. non-planting on gyro goes, I feel that if the person that invented it wants to define it - then that's how it should be defined - that's basically the standard rule - you hit it, you name it (of course, that's under debate as well ;-). I'm pretty sure it was Rippin, Kenny, and Pete?? or others? that were around when it was invented. Pete has already spoken (rather wisely, IMHO). So what do the inventors say? Just take into account that Kenny is the only person (?) that feels that a plant nullifies the gyro. That's all I got for now. Peace! Daryl From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 09:41:02 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29133 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:41:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web5305.mail.yahoo.com (web5305.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.106.114]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA11679 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:20:45 -0800 Message-ID: <20010201232038.18945.qmail@web5305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.79.223.60] by web5305.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 15:20:38 PST Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:20:38 -0800 (PST) From: lon smith Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <20010201035812.20616.qmail@web1203.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list, Joel Dion wrote: > you know the record for consecutives is____ there > are > ____ clubs in ____ different countries and there are > currently ____ different official named moves that > can > be performed in freestyle footbag." For all these > numbers the bigger the better. It is true that those numbers should be huge. And move names save time when describing shreds. > most names are variations of each other and have > been > well thought out, eg. Fear/Smear , Fudge/Smudge , > Nova/Supernova/Novacaine to Flurricain I could go on > and on. Great examples. I wrote in some similar stuff like doubbleparker parkwalk parkdown dimmiest dimwalk dimdown blurrier sidewalk stepdown blurriest ripwalk curbwalk I think it is this very type of naming that has made me try to think of new move variations. All the really related names help my brain when I'm trying to warm up all my skills to go guiltless and tripless. The more names the better. Sloth Out From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 09:45:39 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29159 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:45:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matthew Cross Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11031 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:09:15 -0800 Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id z.bc.fce0019 (5708); Thu, 1 Feb 2001 18:08:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from web30.aolmail.aol.com (web30.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.6]) by air-id04.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:08:32 -0500 Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:08:32 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] ducking swirl set? To: , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org jono, You're never wasting your time trying to improve your game or invent a new set ;) Maybe rippin's hit it? What are you trying to hit it to? From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 10:38:42 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29311 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:38:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net (IDENT:root@donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11859 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:12:34 -0800 Received: from [207.160.174.20] ([207.160.174.20] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 433629 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:08:20 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:13:42 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] paradox refraction From: Derrick Fogle To: Freestyle Listserve Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3A7A0F5E.1218A344@dallasfootbag.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org on 2/1/01 7:37 PM, Derric Scalf at derric@dallasfootbag.org wrote: > No such thing as a paradox refraction. It looks cool and all, but the That would mean there's no such thing as a paradox mirage, either. It would be the exact same move, except caught on the inside instead of the toe, and with a carry tacked on the end. Anyway, is the paradox part of a paradox torque really any different than the paradox part of a paradox refraction? I don't really think so. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 11:41:19 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29537 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:41:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Kenny Shults Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13889 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:25:50 -0800 Received: from KenShults@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id z.42.1035d412 (17526) for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:25:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <42.1035d412.27ac6395@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:25:09 EST Subject: [freestyle] Gyro To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I can't believe I'm alone in thinking that Gyro can't have a plant. You turn your head for three and a half years and all hell breaks loose - Gyros without plants, Atomic this and Nuclear that, Fairies and Pixies co-mingling. What's the world coming to? Kenny Shults From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 11:58:07 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29573 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:58:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1306.mail.yahoo.com (web1306.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.156]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA14497 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:45:23 -0800 Received: (qmail 3108 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Feb 2001 19:45:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20010202194516.3107.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.30.145.205] by web1306.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:45:16 PST Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:45:16 -0800 (PST) From: ERiC WiNDSoR Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: freestyle@footbag.org Cc: Kenny Shults In-Reply-To: <6c.756f4f2.27a964ab@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Kenny Shults wrote: > And what's the deal with all this trick naming. Cool > it please. Since I started kicking I've dreamed about inventing a new move. Imagine the challenge! Most moves had already been invented and to actually hit a move that had never been hit would be a very difficult task. When someone does hit a move for the first time now-a-days imagine the pride they must feel because it was a phat move. They are very excited and want to feel the joy of actually naming a move. They want to add some sort of creativity to the sport and feel apart of it. Its like a personal singnature. I feel that way about Novacaine, I'm sure Big Add feels that way about Flurricane, Sunil for Boulder Beater, etc. I realize some of the trick names might sound stupid and you may not like them, but it should be allowed to keep the spirit of freestyle "free". I'm very sad that you shuned eli's post in fact, becase I'm happy about inventing a move and naming it. I figured you would be proud of individuals who have hit new moves as your speach at the end of Tricks of the Trade suggested we do. So great, the first move I invent gets trash talked by one of the people I looked up to the most. If a person wants to name a trick after its technical composistion then so be it. And I dont think we should go back a give a nifty name to tricks that have been deemed thechnical (We shouldn't rename moves like blurry whirl, stepping torque, etc.). As far as gyro w/plant being invalid is funny to hear because imagine all of the renaming of moves you would have to do! But first you would actually have to distinguish what moves fall under each catagory. I just don't understand. So a Gyro whirl would be gyro, but a "gyro" sympos. whirl wouldn't be? Well what is it then, Spinning? Lon's Mobius to Mobius-w/plant was explained to be Mobius to Spinning torque, but I thought that spinning meant a back spin to a move done on the same side as the set-side. Example :Spinning-torque vs. Gyro-torque seems like The dexes should be the same as Spinning-mirage vs. Gyro mirage, two established moves. Why then would Spinning-mirage be Spinning-mirage, but a Gyro-torqe-w/plant be a Spinning-torqe. So is a Gyro-mirage with a plant now spinning mirage. No, because spinning mirage is already a different trick just as Gyro-whirl-w/plant can't be spinning Whirl becasue Spinning Whirl already exists. IMO if the loopholes in a suggested concept/move are this dramatic then the idea should not even be considered. At least until its explained in a matter which makes sence, doesn't have loopholes, and isn't contradictory of other already established concepts/moves. Eric Windsor From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:43:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30791 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:43:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11604.mail.yahoo.com (web11604.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.56]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA20269 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:37:16 -0800 Message-ID: <20010202223709.47329.qmail@web11604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.129.16.5] by web11604.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:37:09 PST Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:37:09 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Stylers, I'm going to keep this short and simple. I like things to be simple. Gyro (and other terms) has surpassed the original, limited definition. I talked in depth with Rippin' on the phone about the planting consideration in gyro (coincidentally weeks ago). We agreed that the term is currently only to distinguish moves, otherwise known as a "concept". If it's limited to not planting, then it is only a "name". Fact is, we have "names" for many gyro moves (vortex, mobius, mantis, etc), hence the term gyro would only be useful as a descriptive "concept". Concepts have much more importance than names. Redefining the current concept of gyro is like redefining paradox, and I know we don't want to go there. Hit new moves, name new moves. Eli Piltz From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:45:37 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30802 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:45:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11602.mail.yahoo.com (web11602.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.54]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA20429 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:40:28 -0800 Message-ID: <20010202224022.23983.qmail@web11602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.129.16.5] by web11602.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:40:22 PST Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:40:22 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Aggressive Grounds video in PAL To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Freestylers, I just want to let you know that the newest,best freestyle video "Aggressive Grounds" is available in PAL format for all you non-North Americans. Email me if interested. ezshredz@yahoo.com Eli Piltz Zohar Productions From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:46:11 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30813 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:46:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Kenny Shults Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20653 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:48:52 -0800 Received: from KenShults@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id r.e0.fd6e47e (18404); Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:48:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:48:09 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: foot_bag@yahoo.com CC: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eric, I would like to personally apologize for any disrespect you interpreted in my post on trick naming. Just to clarify, I am not opposed to to trick naming in principal but it has seemed to me lately that there has been a rush to put unique names to every possible trick. If you reserve the naming to the really cool innovative new tricks then they have that much more impact. I was never all that concerned with the names of tricks I made up. Double around the world, whirling swirl, double leg over, osis (stole the name and concept from Frisbee), spinning osis, double spinning osis, etc. aren't the most creative names as you can see. I just find it easier to follow the lingo when you only need to know the base tricks and modifiers. Anyway, I am sincerely sorry if my comments stifled any enthusiasm or creativity. You are absolutely right that creating a new trick is something to be extremely proud of. In fact, it's really the most interesting thing in freestyle for me. Kenny Shults From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:46:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30824 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:46:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from r2t0w6 ([24.69.36.80]) by mail2.rdc2.bc.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010202225644.KEX10676.mail2.rdc2.bc.home.com@r2t0w6> for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:56:44 -0800 Message-ID: <003901c08d6b$af2c3160$50244518@gvsa1.bc.wave.home.com> From: "Allan Haggett" To: References: <20010202194516.3107.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:58:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eric wrote: >I'm sure Big Add feels that > way about Flurricane, Sunil for Boulder Beater, etc. > I realize some of the trick names might sound stupid > and you may not like them, but it should be allowed to > keep the spirit of freestyle "free". I'm very sad > that you shuned eli's post in fact, becase I'm happy > about inventing a move and naming it. I figured you > would be proud of individuals who have hit new moves > as your speach at the end of Tricks of the Trade > suggested we do. So great, the first move I invent > gets trash talked by one of the people I looked up to > the most. Kenny is simply frustrated with so many names being 'announced' that it's hard to keep track of. *And it is*. Eric, your post further illustrated what I meant in my previous post on this thread(or rather the one of the same title but w/out the /gyro). Boulder Beater???? enlighten me.... no one has answered me on what the hell 'Your Mom' is yet as well...Y'all have undertaken to name these cool new moves you're hitting, without giving thought to A)the newbie who hasn't a clue what language we are all talking(and doesn't have a hope to at this rate) B) The Players who aren't within your circle that may or may not have been hitting these moves before you, and C) The Players who aren't hitting these moves, missed your post about the new 'name' (or forgot that 'that' was what it was called) and don't have a clue what the hell you are talking about when you refer to it without any explanation of what it is. Again, Boulder Beater??(not ever even refered to on this list before that I can remember) Your Mom??? Beyond Cryptic. I had to go back and look at Sunil's post to understand what the hell Novicaine was(Gyro(or spinning for Kenny)-Symposium-DLO)... Case in point, I've hit Novicaine as far back as two years ago, when I was bailing out of Amadeus(Gyro DaDa) :)... YES, it was symposium, though I didn't know it at the time(nor did I know that gyro-dada was called Amadeus until World's 2000). I *know* Amadeus isn't symposium. I tried it that way, hence the bail out of it into Novicaine.... Eric also wrote: >(We shouldn't rename moves like blurry whirl, stepping torque, etc.). Wasn't stepping torque named GraveDigger by Tuan Vu? Screw this typing business.... I'm going out to Shred!! Allan http://footbag.dnsalias.net From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:48:15 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30854 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:48:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from deborah.paradise.net.nz (deborah.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.32]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23403 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:16:06 -0800 Received: from omen (203-79-64-139.adsl.paradise.net.nz [203.79.64.139]) by deborah.paradise.net.nz (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f130Fpx04842; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 13:15:51 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <001a01c08d76$acdebdf0$4d050505@omen> From: "damian coventry" To: "Kenny Shults" , References: <42.1035d412.27ac6395@aol.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gyro Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 13:17:20 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id QAA30153 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenny Shults" To: Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 8:25 AM Subject: [freestyle] Gyro > I can't believe I'm alone in thinking that Gyro can't have a plant. You turn > your head for three and a half years and all hell breaks loose - Gyros > without plants, Atomic this and Nuclear that, Fairies and Pixies co-mingling. > What's the world coming to? > > Kenny Shults > you're not alone on this one kenny. i remember when adrian and i started the move list database for footbag.org and i specifically remember tapping in spyro gyro. i remember becoz adrian and i had a hard time trying to describe a "gyro butterfly swirl". soon after we had a few (unsuccessful) attempts and doing the action for the gyro bit with a footbag. i remember thinking how difficult it was at the time becoz there was no plant, that's the bit that made spyro gyro a true five imo, i believe it was the first 5 adder we put in the database that we heard had been hit (by rippin i believe). gyro has no plant, if you're planting you're doing something else, that doesn't mean it's not worthy, it just means use a different word to discribe it other than gyro. damian From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:48:55 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30865 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:48:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA27647 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:22:32 -0800 Received: (qmail 11231 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Feb 2001 02:22:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20010203022221.11230.qmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [172.143.223.58] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 18:22:21 PST Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:22:21 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] Does the set matter? To: Derrick Fogle , freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Derrick Fogle wrote: > Duh. > > Of course the set matters. YES!!! THE CHICKEN HAS SPOKEN!!! Later, James From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:49:16 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30876 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:49:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f258.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.133]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29058 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:13:19 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:12:43 -0800 Received: from 152.163.213.179 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 03:12:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.213.179] From: "Bryan Fournier" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Footbag Celebrities Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 19:12:42 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2001 03:12:43.0181 (UTC) FILETIME=[2C70E5D0:01C08D8F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everybody... I just had to share this with y'all. I was walking to my Biology class yesterday at my school, Cal State Fullerton... when, half-asleep, i hear this voice calling "hey hacky sack guy!" at first i thought oh god i'm hearing voices, but atleast theyre talking about something i'm familiar with....but then i heard it again...this time i turned around and saw this guy ear-to-ear smiling at me... i was like whoa, 9 o'clock in the morning on a remote part of the the campus, i thought about the last time i was in a situation like this: people calling you out in odd places...and i thought back to junior high....then i thought oh great this is where i get my ass beat. But surprisingly he was serious, he wasn't making fun of me or anything it turned out he was a footbagger that had come to one of our circles on campus the semester before and he recognized my lavers... so like all meetings of fellow footbaggers we talked about where he lived and who he kicked with but what stopped me cold was a question I'll never forget... well into the conversation, as we're talking about pretty basic stuff like stalls and what not the guy goes... "Hey, Do you know the Torch?" My jaw friggen dropped... this guy approaches me... out of nowhere, pops that question...so I told him the torch's "alias" then the conversation broke into a familiar discussion about other footbag players, who all, from his reaction, seemed like celebrities... pretty soon he was asking me about Toby1... i was totally stunned. Some random dude in a place i thought was pretty foreign to footbag... it took awhile to sink in... something to the effect of me still trying to fathom it 15 minutes later in biology class while the teacher droned on about fragile ecosystems... all in all i was shocked, i had found a new kicker who belonged to a new club that existed right under my nose without even doing anything, except walking my lazy butt to class... not to mention: oh yea, ahren, do you know your like a celebrity in the hacky sack underground? hehe ~Bryan Fournier OOPS! Footbag Club Hermosa Beach, CA. P.S. Hey Tom, if you're out there...hehe that was pretty funny man, hope to kick with you soon bro From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:49:34 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30887 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:49:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web9614.mail.yahoo.com (web9614.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.13]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA30992 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:23:19 -0800 Message-ID: <20010203042312.66615.qmail@web9614.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.218.190.58] by web9614.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 20:23:12 PST Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:23:12 -0800 (PST) From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: [freestyle] your mom To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey yo, For the record and to clear up some confusion, I came up with "your mom". It is a symposium fusion. I refuse to learn jobs notation so I'll explain it in lamens terms. Atomic set (left leg dex), keep left leg in the air, symposium double-down with your right leg. I the'ed this move at worlds, but I'm hitting it clean now. Torch p.s. I hit your mom ;( From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:50:20 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30900 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:50:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from itsa.ucsf.edu (itsa.ucsf.edu [128.218.95.21]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31116 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:25:56 -0800 Received: from localhost (sjani@localhost) by itsa.ucsf.edu (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA27170; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:25:46 -0800 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:25:46 -0800 (PST) From: Sunil Subhash Jani Reply-To: Sunil Subhash Jani To: Kenny Shults cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gyro In-Reply-To: <42.1035d412.27ac6395@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What up Shreddies?: On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Kenny Shults wrote: > I can't believe I'm alone in thinking that Gyro can't have a plant. You turn You're not, Kenny. I for one, fully agree with you. It is such a different animal to do a gyro butterfly than a gryoSTYLE butterfly with a plant. PLANTS DO CHANGE MOVES. Try a paradox whirl, but plant your dex foot before doing the dex. IT IS NOT PARADOX. It is a different move. Same thing with gyro... the plant removes the added difficulty of the move. When you plant, you obliterate the necessity of having having to go against your momentum to keep your balance. I personally never thought of this plant rule to apply to big apple, but technically I would have to agree with Kenny. On a separate note, though, even if you disagree with the man, PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL to him... he friggin conjured up most of the moves we are all doing (and then some), give the man some credit for his revolutionary vision... I think the men and women who invented the concepts have all the right to explain, confine, and expand upon them as they please. > without plants, Atomic this and Nuclear that, Fairies and Pixies co-mingling. > What's the world coming to? Yeah, what is up with this furious barrage of self-importance. ALSO, I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE ALL FREESTYLERS TO NOMINATE RIPPIN RICK REESE, PETER IRISH, and SAM CONLON (amongst others, Tim Kelly!!) for the footbag hall of fame (I for one cannot respect the foundation if these people are not members). To make it easy just cut the following lines and paste it to a message addressed to FootbagHallofFame@footbag.org I nominate Rick Reese, Peter Irish, and Sam Conlon for the footbag hall of fame. Thank you. __________ Sunil Jani (don't cut this part) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 20:51:47 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA30911 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:51:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web9612.mail.yahoo.com (web9612.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.11]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA31055 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:25:50 -0800 Message-ID: <20010203042540.73135.qmail@web9612.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.218.190.58] by web9612.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 20:25:40 PST Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:25:40 -0800 (PST) From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey yo, Alex Zerbe wrote: >I understand why you say a gyro move with a plant >can't be gyro. I think that this is a minor >technicality and shouldn't be taken into >consideration, just for the sake of simplicity. Ummmm... no. If you plant, it's not gyro. Why? Not planting the foot you do the dex with, makes the move harder. If you put your foot down it's substantially easier to maintain balance. It's much harder to spin on one leg, than it is to put your feet down and turn around. That's why gyro is unique. It is it's own creature. And Shults was one of the people that invented the move. How can you even consider arguing with the man. If you want to give a name to the planting "gyro" set then go ahead. But wait a minute. Then there will be another name for the old guys to remember. This game is so silly. Torch From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 21:28:27 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA31027 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:28:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32140 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:02:08 -0800 Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ("port 3930"@webmail.mscd.edu [147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G8603AKM0NBYQ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 22:01:59 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 21:54:22 -0700 From: brad kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] GYRO/NAMES/DEFINITIONS To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3A4DFF06@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From genzu@footbag.org ===== >As far as the planting vs. non-planting on gyro goes, >I feel that if the person that invented it wants to define >it - then that's how it should be defined - that's basically >the standard rule - you hit it, you name it (of course, >that's under debate as well ;-). I'm pretty sure >it was Rippin, Kenny, and Pete?? or others? that were >around when it was invented. Pete has already spoken >(rather wisely, IMHO). So what do the inventors say? I'm totally inclined to agree with Pete, but since I'm not as wise as Lao Tzu, I'm going to put my two sense in this. I agree that the person who invents a trick, rather is the first to hit a trick, should be the one to define or even name it if they want to. I hate to say this, but if whoever invented or named gyro doesn't like the plant thing, then it really should have been brought up a long time ago. I don't know the whole history or anything, but I'd say "Gyro" has been around for at least 10 years. I'm even betting that people have been planting in order to do gyro moves for at least 9 years. So why is it now such a problem? Kenny said if you were to plant your foot it becomes a spin move. I'd say that in footbags never ending struggle to define moves and names and adds and whatever else, this only makes things MORE complicated. We'll end up with 2 spinning butterfly moves and 1 gyro butterfly, 2 spinning legovers and 1 gyro, two spinning clippers and NO SUCH THING as a gyro clipper. The only good thing I see is that this may help to clear up and define spinning pdx moves for the non believers. I also don't think that's a necessity. The definition I like and have always gone by, and I think works in (dare I say) every case is: Gyro is set from toe or xbody followed by a backspin (away from the bag) and the next part of the move (dex, body, delay or unusual) is done by the side of the body opposite of which the move started. Many people may say "what about inspinning moves?" to which I respond, that there is a seperate definition for "Inspinning Gyro" moves which basically changes the "backspin" to a "frontspin" and the next part of the move is done by the "same" side of the body the move began on. Okay I'm done. Chew it up, spit it out, and let me graciously slip on it. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Feb 2 21:57:22 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA31081 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:57:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00388 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:23:57 -0800 Received: from [144.92.96.184] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id XAA10222 (8.9.1/50); Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:23:48 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.20010202232347.00969990@students.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mklewand@students.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 23:23:47 -0600 To: Sunil Subhash Jani From: Matthew Kain Lewandowski Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gyro Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: References: <42.1035d412.27ac6395@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sunil wrote: >PLANTS DO CHANGE MOVES. Try a paradox whirl, but plant your dex >foot before doing the dex. IT IS NOT PARADOX. It is a different move. Although I don't really want to get into this (since I would rather be home practicing Blurriest), I feel Sunil's comment raises an interesting issue. If a plant nullifies paradox, why do moves like blurry whirl, blurry drifter, blurry torque, and countless others receive a paradox add? These moves all require that a plant is made. In fact, the no-plant version of these moves (in other words "pogo" style) is considered easier by many shredders. I hit pogo paradox whirl long before I hit blurry whirl mainly because it is an easier move. I agree with Sunil, Kenny, and others that a plant does change a move, but I don't know if I agree that a plant nullifes a paradox or makes a move easier. It seems to depend on the styler and the move that is attempted. >Same thing with gyro... the plant removes the added difficulty of the >move. When you plant, you obliterate the necessity of having having to go >against your momentum to keep your balance. I agree here as well, but only to an extent. Every time I have ever hit Mobius, I have planted. For me it is light years harder not to plant. I lose my balance, I don't set the bag as well, etc. However, my friend Aaron that I kick with finds it easier to do Mobius without the plant (the way that I assume the move was originally hit and is "meant" to be hit). He claims to get a better, more accurately placed set, and have more time when he does not plant. Two stylers, two styles, two preferences (and possibly two moves). Not that I really care if one is "technically" a Mobius and the other is not, I am just wondering about difficulty. What do others think on this? Anyway, there is no way anyone will solve this argument, so I think I am going to go home and practice Blurriest (and Corpsegrinder). And for all you fairy fans, has anyone hit fairy mobius yet? And Sunil, what is a Boulder Beater? Shred hard Matt Kain - Madison Footbag From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 11:22:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13112 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:22:59 -0800 Received: from market.llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.21]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13109 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:22:58 -0800 Received: from llic.net (llic.net [209.125.90.2]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10050 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:19:10 -0800 Received: from [209.125.90.60] (vpn-24-16-30-199.corp.home.net [24.16.30.199]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA07627 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:19:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: Host vpn-24-16-30-199.corp.home.net [24.16.30.199] claimed to be [209.125.90.60] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.21 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:18:25 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Freestyle list hiaitus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Folks, Please don't reply to this message, as I don't need any more e-mail than I already get right now. That said: This is just a note to let everyone know that there have been some problems with the freestyle list, and it has been unavailable for the last 10 days. We're working on it, and it will be flowing again soon (hopefully tonight, but no promises). As much as everyone thinks this is the most important list on the planet :-), it's a lower priority for us than the rest of the things we deal with in our day-to-day lives, so please bear with us. Anyone who sent e-mail to the list, your mail is still pending. You'll know the list is working again when you see your e-mail posted, or when you get that ever-so-familiar bounce message. Thanks for your patience. Again, I don't need any more e-mail so please don't reply with follow-up questions right now. Of course if you have a good reason to contact me, please do so but under a different subject line. Thanks. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:36:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14751 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:36:46 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160536.VAA14751@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: "Richard Reese" To: "ERiC WiNDSoR" , Cc: "Kenny Shults" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:08:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Windsor hit Blurry-blender to Scorpion-tail a short while ago, What a Windstorm, I better see You at the symp., Shredder.Rippin' From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:36:44 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14746 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:36:44 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160536.VAA14746@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: "Rick Reese" To: , Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:05:14 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org My partner is correct, gyro-whirl was the first gyro move, I hit it back in 93 or 94 at Dennis Jones' house ( the combo involved a bunch of other whirling moves that I was trying to hit in a row) whirl, symp. whirl, spinning whirl, gyro-whirl, paradox whirl........anyway, gyro-butterfly came later. Now, everybody. Gyro cannot have a plant, of course Kenny is right. If you plant, you are then performing a STOMPING move......I had'nt seen anybody mention that concept at all on the list lately. Back in 95 at the awesome Funtastic Classic Pete, Kenny and myself were at the tail-end of the first nights jam and we all started messing around with stomping in between all kinds of moves, THINK of the possibilities, well, that concept kind of fell to the wayside, but it may return! See ya at the Symposium. Rippin' From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:42:49 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14773 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:42:49 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160542.VAA14773@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: "Rick Reese" To: "Eli Piltz" , Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:12:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Kenny and I simultaneously invented Torque at the Intermountain Tournament in 1987 , ironically, it started from a mirage bail to an osis, not from a clipper. Seconds later, we both said What about from a clipper, and Torque was born (Kenny thought of the name........I love you man. Also, Damian Coventry wrote: > gyro has no plant, if you're planting you're doing something else, that > doesn't mean it's not worthy, it just means use a different word to > discribe it other than gyro. Spryo-Gyro was hit for the first time at the Heart of Freestyle tournament in 1995, Peter hit it first, then Myself, then Kenny, That was the same tourney that Tuan Vu, Eric Wulff, Josh Casey, and Steve Kremer were inducted into the B.A.P. Thank You Kic. Finally, Sunil wrote: > I nominate Rick Reese, Peter Irish, and Sam Conlon for the footbag hall of > fame. Thank you. Thank You Sunil and everyone else for the kind words. This is already my 19th year of kicking, and I'm so far behind............What am I going to do? I've lost so many moves! somebody help! I can't wait to party with you Sunil, bring your long underwear, it's chilly here. Rippin' From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:42:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14784 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:42:52 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160542.VAA14784@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 03:21:17 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Windsor Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gyro To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Sunil Subhash Jani wrote: > PLANTS DO CHANGE MOVES. Try a paradox > whirl, but plant your dex > foot before doing the dex. IT IS NOT PARADOX. Sunil, if you don't get paradox if you plant before you do a dex then is blur paradox? What about blurry whirl? I realize that gyro w/o plant is way harder than w/ plant. I'm just trying to argue that symposium gyro should exist. You would have to plant, but i think you should still get an add for the spinning motion and the symposium. Peace out now. Eric Windsor P.S. props to Alan for hitting Gyro Syposium DLO. That guy can hit almost anything it seems. also, I didn't know stepping torque had a name, I should have used blurry torque in my example. I can't even keep up with the move names either. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:45:51 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14825 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:45:51 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160545.VAA14825@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:43:47 -0500 From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17 i686; en-US; 0.7) Gecko/20010105 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Kenny Shults wrote: > post on trick naming. Just to clarify, I am not opposed to to trick naming in > principal but it has seemed to me lately that there has been a rush to put > unique names to every possible trick. Word! Hit an easy trick. Pat yourself on the back and work it into something harder, don't post to the list that you want to name it. Hit something big and then maybe start a discussion about names you like for it. Toe stall doesn't need to be called "corpsegrinder", it's really easy to understand what "toe stall" means. The same for, say, paradox mirage. But when you get a big move like Big Apple Sauce it needs a common name and not a technical-description name. Lots of people can't hit all the components of the move let alone conceive of stringing them together and comprehending the whole thing as one entity. Just give it a name so people know that it's hard and phat and you will get more newbies and spectators understanding the sport faster. The point where a move needs a common name instead of the technical name is probably just as hard to define as move difficutly, though (that's why I picked two extremes). Oh well you can't have everything, so we'll have to settle for an emotionally charged argument. matt From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:45:53 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14836 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:45:53 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160545.VAA14836@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 10:34:08 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gyro From: Derrick Fogle To: Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org on 2/2/01 11:23 PM, Matthew Kain Lewandowski at mklewand@students.wisc.edu wrote: > Sunil wrote: >> PLANTS DO CHANGE MOVES. Try a paradox whirl, but plant your dex > I agree with Sunil, Kenny, and others that a plant does change a move, but YES! Plants change moves. Sets change moves. Everything is unique. (And yes, I've yammered about the plant in blur before.) -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:45:57 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14847 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:45:57 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160545.VAA14847@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 00:08:40 -0500 From: Matt Craig User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17 i686; en-US; 0.7) Gecko/20010105 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bryan Fournier CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag Celebrities Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Bryan Fournier wrote: > all in all i was shocked, i had found a new kicker who belonged to a new > club that existed right under my nose without even doing anything, Actually it's not that surprising. I don't know the numbers but there are probably a whole lot more lurkers than posters on this list. For two reasons, 1: they (the lurkers) aren't all as dedicated as the pepole who post often 2: they are probably intimidated and/or confused by some of the discussions. (We need a list called scareawaythenewbies@footbag.org, for arguments like the naming and the gyro stuff) So they miss the really technical stuff but they get the things like who's awesome and worthy of being an idol. And then, much unlike the big professional sports, they go to a tournament and kick with that person, their idol, and never forget it. And you never know they're there until they walk up to you out of the blue. Surprise! or something like that, matt From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:47:03 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14860 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:47:03 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160547.VAA14860@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Austin Sparks Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 19:09:49 EST Subject: [freestyle] Lesson plans & a trick To: footbag_enlightener@excite.com, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 130 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Kenny and Scott and everyone else, I read your e-mail about lesson plans for teaching footbag, Scott. I want to know what those lesson plans are because pretty soon when I turn thirteen I'm going to be teaching a footbag class at a local teen center. And if anybody else has some lesson plans or anything like that please let me know. And plus someone tell me how many adds and what's the name for this trick: Ok, it's from clipper, then the support leg circles the bag from in to out, then other side, symposium butterfly or whatever. That trick reminds me of "your mom" that Ahren was talking about. From what I understood it was basically the same thing but one more dex on the last part of the move. Awesome Austin Sparks From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:47:41 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14871 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:47:41 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160547.VAA14871@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:15:36 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: [freestyle] new shred video To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, Thanks to Eric Bengtson, Tim Werner, and Eric Reile, I had my camera running for pretty much the whole new years jam in chicago, and a week after! I put together a 40 minute video and added some dope music, mainly for us who showed up to the Jam. I'm making a copy for everyone who showed up but there's a problem, I need the money to cover the tapes. So If anyone wants to buy a copy of the video, just visit this site for info http://members.nbci.com/shreddined/nyj2001.html there are 3 mpg clips, in the 3rd one I hit bigwalk and try surge in the same combo, hehe. Even if you don't want the video, the clips are worth checking out. Thanks, James Risden P.S. I was going to make all these clips into mpgs, but something happend and I can't. That would take waaaaaaay too long anyway. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:51:41 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14896 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:51:41 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160551.VAA14896@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Jon Schneider Subject: [freestyle] More Symposium Info To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:58:01 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Everybody! Jon Schneider here. I just wanted to let you all know that I have made some updates to the Symposium event listing. For all of you who need driving directs, Daryl Genz has provided detailed directions for those driving in from all directions. You just have to follow the link from the events page on footbag.org to the Revolution Footbags page. He even drew a little map. Also, I am sorry to say that there is not going to be any additional floor space at the Symposium. If you are coming and need a place to stay, please get in touch with the host hotel as soon as possible. They still have some rooms on hold for us, but will not hold them for much longer. A reminder to those who are staying at my place or Red's, don't forget to bring your own sleeping bags and pillows, etc. Also, although we intend to shred and party at Red's house, be aware that he shares that house with several other non-footbag playing people we are really putting themselves out to accommodate all of us, so don't forget to bring your !@$*ing manners. I can't predict the weather yet, so come prepared for the cold. Bring gloves and sweaters and all that stuff. Keep your hopes up and cross your fingers though, cause it has been known to reach seventy degrees in Boulder in February. Last year we played outside all day on Monday. One last thing: anyone else out there that is planning on coming but hasn't said anything to me, please just drop me a line to let me know that you're coming, and when. There are some things I need to prepare based on the numbers. See you all soon. Jonathan Schneider Outsider@footbag.org 303-448-0183 From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:52:33 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14907 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:52:33 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160552.VAA14907@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:40:57 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Planet X- coming soon To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Freestylers, Planet X will be featuring a six minute segment on footbag freestyle this coming weekend! Check your local listings. www.planetxtv.com might be able to help you find out if it broadcasts in your area. Planet X reaches 5 million people per program, and it is aired at least once on Saturday and once on Sunday in most places. In San Diego, it is on cable channel 13 XUPN, Saturday 4:30 pm, Sunday 5:30 pm. The segment is going to be sick!!! Chad Devlahovich, Richie Abshire, and I met Planet X a couple weeks ago for the shoot, and it went unbelievably well. They will be highlighting scenes from my latest video Aggressive Grounds, along with interviews, move demos, and combos gathered from the shoot. The important thing about this show is that it reaches our target audience. It is an action sports program. Also, by the time it airs, my website will be running (only minimally at first). Check it out this weekend at www.zoharpro.com Later, Eli Zohar Piltz Zohar Productions From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:53:45 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14923 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:53:45 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160553.VAA14923@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Jonathan Schneider Subject: [freestyle] More Symposium Info. To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 02:52:48 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Everybody! This message is for everyone who is flying in to Denver International Airport to get to the Colorado Shred Symposium. We will most likely not be able to pick anyone up at the airport this year. Sorry. One the bright side, it is pretty easy to get from DIA to Boulder. All you need to do is to get on the RTD Bus to Boulder. RTD is the Denver area bus system, and the AB bus goes from DIA to Boulder about every hour. The bus is eight dollars ($8) and you need EXACT CHANGE. This bus will bring you to Boulder's main bus station, the very last stop, and it takes about an hour and a quarter. Then just call us from the bus station and we should be able to get you from there. The numbers you'll need are mine, 303-448-0183, and Red's, 720-406-9319. All of you guys flying in, drop me a line to say what days and times you are coming so I can have an idea of who we're gonna have to meet at the bus station and when. Thanks. Jonathan Schneider Outsider@footbag.org From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:54:12 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14935 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:54:12 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160554.VAA14935@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:34:17 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Planet X- coming soon To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Freestylers, I may have been ahead of myself. I talked to one of the producers yesterday, who said he "thinks (the pro footbag segment) will air this weekend." But today I talked to the producer actually creating the segment, who said it will probably air weekend after this one (February 17 & 18). I have heard "six minutes" from two producers and "three minutes" from another, so I'm not certain of the exact length. I recommend anyone who can view Planet X to press record on their VCRs, so you can show friends and family who miss it live. Following is a list of the networks Planet X airs with: NEW ENGLAND SPORTS NETWORK NESN FEED TO DIRECT TV XUPN-PARAMOUNT NET SAN DIEGO CA AT&T BROADBAND LAKE ELSINORE CA AMERICA ONE TIME WARNER CABLE ORANGE COUNTY RSN/RESORTS SPORTS NETWORK CEN/COLLEGE ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK KALEIDOSCOPE TV COX CHANNEL 4 SAN DIEGO COX 3 ORANGE COUNTY AT&T BROADBAND FRESNO SUNSHINE NETWORK FLORIDA Thanks, folks. Eli Piltz __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:55:39 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14950 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:55:39 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160555.VAA14950@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:46:33 -0600 Subject: [freestyle] Footbags From: Colin Larson To: footbag Mime-version: 1.0 X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I got my new Juice facile bag in the mail today. I took it out and messed with it a little, but I'm confused. What makes this thing so much better than any of my crocheted bags? It's also very small, and it's kinda bouncy when you kick with it. And it's a pain to stall because it hits my foot and either bounces or rolls off. please help if you can -Colin From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:55:41 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14960 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:55:41 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160555.VAA14960@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:19:14 -0800 (PST) From: Lon Smith Subject: Re: [freestyle] plants and paradox To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello paradox fanatix Lon says Sunil's right. Sunil wrote: >PLANTS DO CHANGE MOVES. Try a paradox whirl, but plant your dex >foot before doing the dex. IT IS NOT PARADOX. It is a different move. Yes the moves feels completely different. And the difference you may feel while trying this move is the lack a paradox feeling in your hip. > >Same thing with gyro... the plant removes the added > difficulty of the > >move. When you plant, you obliterate the necessity > of having having to go > >against your momentum to keep your balance. Once again as Sunil Stated above a plant sorta just makes it all go away. >Anyway, is the paradox part of a paradox torque >really any different than >the paradox part of a paradox refraction? I don't >really think so. >-Derrick Woh there, all right. No. Paradox refraction is nearly uncleanable and is really just a symposium infinity. No paradox without a dexterity period. Moves that are paradox in my opinion(which is right). paradox torque Paradox drifter paradox mirage paradox doubblelegover anything Nuclear(even toe stalls) Marius but definately not void That's it! Put it in the books. It works. It almost eliminates that whole awesomely stupid paradox idea without ripping off moves's Adds. Seriously though put that shit in the books. Can we swear here??? I know I can but it might get erased by Brian. Props to Brian for stopping all those stupid message we write. Sloth Out From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:56:24 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14972 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:56:24 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160556.VAA14972@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:40:07 -0800 (PST) From: Lon Smith Subject: [freestyle] Re: Enough with the names To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello It's Lon, What kind of name is Your Mom? Come on people grow up now. And boulder beater. What's that uh? uh? You guys smackin' up big ol' rocks and your mothers? Crazy kids. Allen Hagget Wrote: >about 'Gyro-Blurry' based moves being 'Saucy' ;) ), >but >these are >more concepts than individual moves. Yes they truly are. I think Big ADD Chad has mastered and named this set SURGING right Chad? I was under the impression that naming priveledge is sometime just given to the first person to master it not necessarily think of it. Let's get one thing strait everyone. Kenny came up with the basics for naming all moves. Kenny Invented! all our nomenclature for move description and here it is. blury stepping leg overing spinning gyro(great name kenny we'll use it how we like) clipper seting stalling ducking diving symposium unusual surfacing paradoxing inside out outside in whirling butterflying swirling With the above words I'm sure any of us could name any move or atleast accurately describe it so that any other person with an understanding of those names would understand it. I still say nothing with a spin, stepping, or blury set is paradox except MARIUS. I tried it a million times. It's efin' paradox man. I WAS WRONG. Sloth Out From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:57:50 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14989 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:57:50 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160557.VAA14989@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 06:54:42 -0500 From: LaxerOne@netscape.net (Jan Zimmermann) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Swiss Jam Videos Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Franklin Webmailer 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi people! The Swiss Freestyle Jam two weeks ago was a huge blast! Videos of the real thing will be online soon! For now you can access some material of the "Day After" Shred at www.footbagfreestyle.de (curtesy of Sebastian Kleinichen). Only the Hardliners showed up (Namely Jan Zimmermann, Seb Kleinichen, Jose Capacoel and Christian Dubuis)and even though their Legs hurt like hell it's still woth to see! Jan From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:57:53 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15000 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:57:53 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160557.VAA15000@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:36:43 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zerbe Subject: Re: [freestyle] Enough with the names/gyro To: Ahren Gehrman , freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Ahren Gehrman wrote: >Ummmm... no. If you plant, it's not gyro. Why? Not >planting the foot you do the dex with, makes the move >harder. If you put your foot down it's >substantially easier to maintain balance. It's much harder to spin >on one leg, than it is to put your feet down and turn >around. That's why gyro is unique. It is it's own creature. And >Shults was one of the people that invented the move. How can you >even consider arguing with the man. Well, I guess I'd better answer when addressed directly. I can argue with the man because he was at least, in part, incorrect. He himself even addmitted that the direction of the dex does not matter, and that was half of my argument. As for planting not being gyro, Kenny's the man and has the athority to define the term. I still think my point has some validity to it. For example, if a planted gyro and a gyro are different moves they will be judged as uniques in competion. This will make judging more complicated, and reward people for doing, what I believe is essintally the same move, twice. That may be minor, but I think its extremly ironic that we will need to come up with a new term to describe planted gyro, when Kenny just finished telling us he's tired of all these new names. If planting is not gyro, then has anyone ever truly hit mobius to mobius?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ??????? ???????? Just somthing to think about. I hope I haven't offended anyone. Even if you dissagree with my point, it is still a valid argument, just for the sake of argument. As for a new term for planted gyro.... disaterous chunky skipping Just a few ideas that most of ya'll won't like. Zerbe From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:58:34 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15014 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:58:34 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160558.VAA15014@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 19:06:24 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Windsor Subject: [freestyle] Ride to Colorado? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello All footbaggers. I was wondering if anyone is driving to Colorado for the shred syposium, or needs a ride In the Central/Southern California area. I am in desperate need of a ride/passenger. I can take my own car, but i would need passenger/s to share driving expenses, and maybe swich driving, but that isn't necassary. So if anyone can give me a ride or needs one please e-mail me A.S.A.P. or call 909-301-6282. Thank you. Hope to see everyone at Shred Symposium, the best freestyle event aside from the World Championships. Eric Windsor P.S. I'll try not to get into too many debates about gyro/paradox in the car :P From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 21:59:28 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15031 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:59:28 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160559.VAA15031@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 19:12:06 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: [freestyle] Zeke is The Man! Ya'll gotta see this! To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Everyone, This is just me boasting for CIC (Chicago Inner Circle) member, "Zeke" Alex Ibardaloza. Back in December, this foo put us all in our place when he hit what I believe is the world's dopest 4 add freestyle footbag move. Toe set gyro double leg-over! http://members.xoom.com/shreddined/moves/toesetgyrodlo.m1v See also Scott Davidson's reverse swirling symposium whirl. http://members.xoom.com/shreddined/moves/reverseswirlingsymposiumwhirl.m1v These moves are a mouthfull! How about some names, Zeke and Scott?!?! Propz on these moves. Later all, James Risden From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 22:00:00 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15052 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:00:00 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160600.WAA15052@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:07:06 -0800 From: Chris Pinkus Subject: [freestyle] Pogo To: freestyle footbag Reply-to: pinkus@footbag.org MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I was looking through the "move elements" senction of .org, and it says pogo is worth 2 adds (if done correctly), yet the move listings only adds 1 add to the moves. Is pogo worth 1 or 2 adds? Chris P From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 22:01:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15085 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:01:59 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160601.WAA15085@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:34:23 -0800 (PST) From: Lon Smith Subject: [freestyle] Moves List Needs Help To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I Lon, have noticed that I don't agree with a lot of the move on the list. It is extensive but many moves are left out. For example most of the abstract flying and ducking moves are not in there. Also I noticed that paradox reverse whirl is on there a few times and getting the paradox add which is of course outrageous.. Also none of the x dex moves are receiving there adds. It took me a good 30 minutes to look over every single move and write down on paper every mistake and every reasonable left out moves that I thought should be in there. I found about twenty changes that I would make. Being that the moves list is how I learned freestyle I think any of us who have used it should in turn do our part to improve it for the next generations of shredders. Okay! Oh also noticed that spinning paradox is on there getting adds. Oh yeah, and I'm going to hit a possibly new move for yall at the shredd symposium. Hope you like it. Goodbye Sloth Out From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 22:02:02 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15096 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:02:02 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160602.WAA15096@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Brian Parsons Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:21:35 EST Subject: [freestyle] proposal and twirl question To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list! I was thinking about the debate about the gyro not being gyro if you plant after the set so I was thinking take spyro gyro(gyro butterfly swirl) and throw that name out and just call it a gyro butterfly swirl(for now). Then you could call the gyro set with a plant spyro (spinning + gyro =spyro). So a gyro mobius with a plant would now be a spyro torque etc....let me know what you all think. Also, has anyone hit a twirl but ending with a dyno instead of an osis? Thank you for your time. Peace Out, Brian Parsons From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 22:02:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15111 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:02:59 -0800 Message-Id: <200102160602.WAA15111@list.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:43:34 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson Subject: [freestyle] Footbag in the Chicago Tribune today!!! Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! I posted this to the freestyle list because it is not really an announcement, and not appropriate for the announce list. And I did not post to the Footbag list, where it may have been appropriate, but I am not certain that anyone even listens to that list, based on its usage... I wanted to make sure most of you (freestylers) saw this post, and to make sure of this, I posted to the freestyle list. So there. Today's Chicago Tribune (800,000+ daily circulation) has an article on Footbag with two pictures (in the print edition). The web link is on the next line if you want to check it out. Hopefully it will draw some *more* traffic to the footbag.org site, which is in the closing line of the article. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/metro/northwest/article/0,2669,SAV-0102130279,FF.html This is POSITIVE media attention. Not once did they call footbag "football", nor did they overuse the word "Hacky Sack." We are happy, we hope you like it too! See ya in Boulder at the shred! (A HUGE contingency of Chicagoans are converging on Boulder for the symposium, watch out!) :-) Sincerely, Scott, Valeria and Alex Davidson, MFA (Enlightener, Pixie and Family) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Feb 15 22:35:06 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15267 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:35:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by market.llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02862 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:28:27 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) id <0G8U02M017B9P6@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 23:28:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ("port 4248"@webmail.mscd.edu [147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #46115) with ESMTP id <0G8U02L7T7B86L@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 23:28:20 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 23:20:28 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Pogo To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3A51F8A1@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Cont