From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 5 07:47:23 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16238 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 07:47:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from infometrics2.infometrics.co.nz (mail.infometrics.co.nz [210.48.109.82]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA30002 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 16:44:41 -0700 Received: by INFOMETRICS2 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 11:40:45 +1200 Message-ID: <11B671CB12E9D111A9DE0000F8E23895286F5B@INFOMETRICS2> From: Floyd Morgan To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Shoe options Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 11:40:41 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok, my dodgy found under a bed in Australia shoes have finally done there dash. The sole is literally in pieces and my feet get too sore that kicking is causing pain. I have searched high and low for the shoes and have come to the conclusion that they were probably made by a custom shoe maker. Anyway what I want to know is other than Lavers what other shoes do people use (I know Tevas but the lack of a solid clipper scares me). I bought lavers and the problems I found were as follows - Too heel heavy - even after heavy modification the toe box still pissed me off (Pixie and fairy sets were the worst naturally) - The heel was too thick, I felt too high off the ground - Instead of being flat footed, they tilted me forward a bit Basically heaps of little things that made my game die for the whole time I tried them out. Thanks in advance to anybody who can help. Floyd Morgan NB: There is a pic of my old shoes and a better description on my profile http://www.footbag.org/members/profile?MemberID=27890 From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 5 09:54:14 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16352 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:54:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f267.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.16.142]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA32409 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 08:43:15 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 08:43:15 -0700 Received: from 62.104.214.81 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 05 Sep 2001 15:43:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [62.104.214.81] From: "Fabian Kollakowski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Insoles Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 15:43:14 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Sep 2001 15:43:15.0183 (UTC) FILETIME=[7A0197F0:01C13621] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, I just bought some new insoles for my lavers. I'd like to know if it's better to rip the old ones out or to just put the new ones on top of them. Thanks, Fabian From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 5 16:25:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA16672 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 16:25:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA15971 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 14:59:33 -0700 Received: from sam (CBL087.pool019.CH001-glendale.dhcp.hs.earthlink.net [24.41.78.87]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f85LxWX08594; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 14:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003101c13655$fe1fc6e0$574e2918@charterpipeline.com> From: "Sam Colclough" To: freestyle@footbag.org References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Insoles Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 14:59:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "Fabian Kollakowski" wrote: > I just bought some new insoles for my lavers. > I'd like to know if it's better to rip the old ones > out or to just put the new ones on top of them. Don't add the new ones on top. Insoles are specifically designed to be the correct height and doubling them up can cause major problems in your feet, knees, hips and back. Sam Colclough OOPS Freestyle Samurai From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 6 09:41:01 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA19508 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:41:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web12807.mail.yahoo.com (web12807.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.42]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id JAA16532 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:28:07 -0700 Message-ID: <20010906162807.39161.qmail@web12807.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [163.41.248.252] by web12807.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 06 Sep 2001 09:28:07 PDT Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:28:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Baker Subject: [freestyle] Shredding at Burning Man!! To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well I just got back from Burning Man a few days ago and what a trip. For those of you who do not know what burning man is it is a festival held every year in northern Nevada. People gather from all around the world for a week and just pretty much party. It was a lot of fun and there was a lot of freestyle going on there. Forest all week was just going off hitting long unique runs. Malik hit this move that was very interesting to me. He started with a right sole stall then set whirled it with his left behind his body and caught it again on his right sole. We call it the burning man. Mind he hit barefoot and naked. IT was fun just kicking and juggling all weekend and I hope that more footbaggers come out next year. It is worth it. We are going to try and set up a footbag/juggling theme camp putting on shows and teaching people who are interested. Well take it easy all and stay positive and just don't live that negative way make way for the positive day!! peace, Matt Baker From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Sep 8 00:39:10 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA31121 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 00:39:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from femail34.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail34.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.24]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id AAA12267 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 00:29:53 -0700 Received: from acer ([24.67.188.141]) by femail34.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010908072952.IVCM28036.femail34.sdc1.sfba.home.com@acer> for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 00:29:52 -0700 Message-ID: <001401c13838$13ff3160$8dbc4318@ok.shawcable.net> From: "Jeff Lopes" To: Subject: [freestyle] The Hedgehog Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 00:30:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list, Today I hit a sonic dyno clean and sealed baby. Ive named it "Hedgehog". Just want to clarify if its already been done by posting the list. Jobs are: clip set>backspin>backspin same out [dex]>same clip [xbd] [del] I also have hit double peeking osis "super sonic" (i hit that at worlds), sonic mirage, sonic butterfly, sonic opp whirl, sonic same whirl, sonic osis, and sonic pickup. If you read this Kenny let me know whats been hit and named. Peace all Jeff Lopes P.S. I like sonic set From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 10 10:51:43 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09408 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:51:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dnvrpop3.dnvr.uswest.net (dnvrpop3.dnvr.uswest.net [206.196.128.5]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id TAA00955 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 19:04:55 -0700 Received: (qmail 2627 invoked by uid 0); 10 Sep 2001 02:04:54 -0000 Received: from dslpppn161.dnvr.uswest.net (HELO mindspring.com) (63.225.246.161) by dnvrpop3.dnvr.uswest.net with SMTP; 10 Sep 2001 02:04:54 -0000 Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 22:07:23 -0400 Message-ID: <3B9C205B.3D9152E7@mindspring.com> From: "Ernest Crvich" To: freestyle@footbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Boulder Blades heating up References: <26719019.998087256145.JavaMail.imail@slippery> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Red and I would like to toot our horns about recent events here in the center of the Universe (aka Boulder, CO)...classes at CU just began a couple weeks ago and interest in freestyle has exploded. Today's session drew over a dozen shredders and kickers alike...some names you may know: Red and Amy, Daryl and Sunny, myself, Malik, Jeremy Benton, Casey Jones, Kyle from Laramie came down for the day...then there's all the new blood that are coming up fast: Joey and Bobby (CU students), another guy named Joe and another guy named Kyle, Brandon, and about half a dozen others I didn't even meet. We missed Brad and Rippin', and the multi-talented Paul Mestas, but maybe they'll show up next Sunday. Not to mention many other locals who occasionally stop by...hopefully the Colorado Shred Symposium III will have the highest attendance yet. Red hit Inspinning Mobius today (clean and sealed), among all sorts of other madness (Flurry both sides, Blurrier both sides, Bedwetter, etc., etc.), and everyone else was looking strong as well. Must have been the perfect weather (low 70s, not a cloud in the sky, very light breeze) and the huge turn out. So get your rears down here next Sunday at 2pm or Tuesdays & Thursdays at 5pm (CU campus, next to the engineering center). -- Ernest M. Crvich Boulder, CO Have footbag, will shred From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 10 10:51:42 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09403 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:51:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f63.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.63]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA32140 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 18:32:34 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 18:21:09 -0700 Received: from 128.148.209.72 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 01:21:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.209.72] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "Ken Somolinos" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Summer freestyle journal Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 21:21:08 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Sep 2001 01:21:09.0005 (UTC) FILETIME=[DEDDF3D0:01C13996] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello shredders! Through a combination of good planning, sheer luck, priceline, and boundless shredder hospitality, I managed to hit most of the major freestyle spots in North America this summer! What follows is a brief account of some of the more memorable freestyle-related moments of the summer. I will list several combos I saw, but there will also be a good bit of just anecdotal crap, so feel free to delete this now if you aren't interested. I just thought some of y'all might get a kick out of it. You can also just skim it for the freestyle combos. That said, here we go. In May I got accepted to an almost ideal summer job. I'd be getting paid to teach disadvantaged Denver Public Middle School students basic literacy and American History in an intensive 7 week program. The job was great and I got to freestyle with Denver and Boulder players for two months, but I had to commit to working there through the dates of World Championships. When I found that out, I resolved I would go to Westerns to see SF and shred some in order to make up for it. In late May I made my way out to SF and hung out with Tu and Ahren for a week, and checked out westerns. Brian McKenzie came by for the last few days and a good time was had all around. I learned more about wrestling in that one week than in the rest of my life combined. I missed the first day of Western's in order to see Haight AShbury with Tu and Brian, but we made it to the second day and saw some good shred. Daryl Genz made it out from Colorado and I saw Mxzylplyxck (bubba legbeater with a plant) for the first time. Alex Zerbe was playing very consistently with long strings and a good variety of fliers and fours. Sunil hit pdx blur, and Eric Wulff was doing lots of moves with his leaning set, like leaning dragonfly. Tu, Brian and I left right after competition to go see Mexican Wrestling in SF so I missed a lot of the shredding. La Parka rules. Second day was lots of fun. The big three contest was held, and I saw lots of huge combos right before and some during the competition. In comp Eric W hit Macon Bacon (leaning osis) to torque to diving butterfly. Lon hit blurriest to spinning ducking butterfly to Mobius. Ahren hit Tombstone-pdx torque-food processor. Right before the comp I saw Richie abshire hit locomotion to pdx drifter. Ryan hit stepping whirl-flurry-symp toe whirl. Ahren hit shooting butterfly-blurry torque-vortex, as well as ducking legbeater to blurry torque. I also saw him hit blurry whirl-pdx torque-pdx torque-blurry whirl. Sunil hit pixie paradon to blurriest to blurriest. McKenzie was hitting atomic whirls all over the place, and was also busting atomic spinning mirages (like an atom smasher with a spin in the middle, super clean). I also filmed Lon hitting 7 pdx torques in a row. The routines were OK, wind would flare up occasionally which sort of made it random who did well and who didn't. There were several good moments during routines however. When Lon was called out during the finals, he was nowhere to be found for a few minutes, and then there was a rustling in a big tree by the comp site, followed by a loud "hey you guuyyys!' and Lon jumped out of the tree (like 15 feet) and busted his routine, including both Mobius'. Zerbe did an amazing routine to the Humpty Dance, which inspired me to really think about presentation for future routines. Ahren came out for his routine wearing a Mexican Wrestling match and playing a metal folding chair like a guitar. He did half his routine in the mask, took it off, and then at the end got beaten up by Sunil and Tu using metal folding chairs of their own. Lots of cool stuff was also happening on the sidelines. Lon and Daryl dominated foursquare, Dave Holton was busting out lots of skating tricks, and some kid on a unicycle did a toe stall. Props to Chad for giving me good advice as to what to get off the Jack in the Box menu. For me the highlight of the tourney was busting tricks with Tu using a bag of Cornnuts instead of a footbag. He hit bubba egg, we both hit blur, and I hit toe blur. Ahren stepped in for a second to do an atomic duck. The most memorable part of the trip was playing WCW Smackdown later that night, and having Sunil's Rikishi beat Ahren, Tu and I even when we teamed up on him. It was depressing and hilarious at the same time. A week later I found myself in Colorado. I had the good fortune to shred with Daryl, Rippin', Sunny, Jon S, Red, Brad Kaplan, and others every weekend for two months. Colorado shreds! I saw too much shred to list everything, but here are some highlights. I saw Brad hit flurry to pixie paradon super clean. I saw Rippin' do a long run with at least 6 unique fives in it, that started off with symp whirling swirl to mobius. Ernest Crvich was hitting some big stuff like paradon swirl, but by far the coolest move I saw him hit was "dark side of the moon": an ass stall. Jon was hitting all sorts of styly things. Dragster to flipwalk anybody? Scary. When Daryl wasn't busy threatening my life, he also played pretty well. Double ATW to legbeater both sides in the same run, terrage-DATW-terrage-DATW, Fog to enterrage, pdx leg-blurry whirl-pdx leg-pdx torque -having the bag barely roll off his second pdx torque. Very cool stuff. I also got to play a bit with Red, who was just coming off a knee injury. Despite this, he had no trouble with Mantis', mobii, and vortices whenever he felt like it. There was even a shred at Daryl and Sunny's wedding! It was funny to see Daryl play in black shorts and a bowtie, and Sunny playing in white spandex and a wedding garter belt. One of the coolest stylers I got to play with in Colorado is a guy not many of you have heard of, but somebody must get on video. Kyle Corff was at worlds last year for a bit, he was the blonde guy doing cartwheel pendulums and the like. This phenom from Laramie can hit big stuff like Vortex, but his coolest moves are his cartwheel and flipping moves. Super creative. After Colorado I went to Montreal for a bit with my girlfriend, and I got to play a little footbag there as well. I'd hazard to say that Montreal is the East Coast's best freestyle scene right now. Sebastien Duschesne is easily one of my favorite freestylers. He hit his first flipside scorpion's tail midstring in front of me, and I couldn't tell it was flipside til he told me right afterwards. Double spinning clipper, long strings with no repeating combos, fog both sides same string, spinning ducking moves, and on and on. Tabernaque! Props to Yacine for being awesome. My pool game is so much better now! He was hitting big moves like vertigo, but I was most impressed by his combos. Fusion to blur midstring! Ducking smear-pixie ducking clipper. Montreal also has a good number of budding intermediates who will get awesome soon, like Gabriel. This year was not only my first Western Regionals, it was also my first Funtastiks! Every year Funtastiks conflicts with the start of school for me, but since I missed worlds i decided to cut the first day of class and go shred despite a bad cold and low funds. I'm so glad I did. Funtastiks felt like a NYFA 98 reunion. Ryan Mahugea came out from Michigan, Kaiser made it from Penn State, and the current NYFA crew (sans Josh Penney) came down. It felt like old times, except we're all better now. Props to Bruce Dole for making good on his threat of leaving gifts in people's beds. Kaiser was shredding smoothly, with longer strings than last year. I swear, you WILL teach me Dyno some day. Also making it out from Michigan was the God Father. Greg consistently busted long strings all weekend full of ducks, dives, spins, and squeezes. He also was hitting some big moves like stomping ps reverse whirl, mobius, pdx blender, and motion. The first day of competition GF also went dropless! So strong. The routines were very solid this year. What is it about Funtastiks that produces so many good routines? The first day Eric hit macon bacon in the middle of his routine on the beat. Sunil's routines were hella strong both days. Pete went dropless in the finals, and started off juggling two bags on one foot and three in his hands. There was some excellent shred all weekend. Yacine hit pdx reverse drifter to blurry drifter, as well as blurry whirl to ducking pdlo! Flash Bevier shredded like a madman all weekend long. He hit blurry drifter to vortex, and was coming pretty close to shooting star. The first day of the freestyle shred he went dropless! One of the coolest things I saw all weekend was when Sunil gave Scott his Flash t-shirt. Eric Wulff hit ripped warrior-jackknife-ripped warrior-symposium PDLO, his first quad five ever. Sunil hit blurry drifter to PS whirl, as well as jani walker to flaming tard. I saw Sunil getting both fogs and almost getting both bedwetters all in the same run. Pete was shredding smoothly as well, hitting pdx torque to pdx torque midstring, and even doing some leaning jowlers! Kenny Shults dropped by on Sunday, spanked everybody, and then left. Double whirling swirl? Double spinning butterfly-double spinning osis? Damn. I was also glad to see Derric Scalf make it out to the East Coast and amaze with his osis to blurry combos. It's always fun to play with somebody you haven't played with in over 2 years. My boy Stan from NYFA hit his first bedwetters and blurry whirls this weekend, and was shredding smoothly the entire time. I still remember writing him an e-mail less than 2 years ago to go shred in NYC. Watch this kid, he's going to be a menace. I also feel obliged to mention that Stan never played net before that weekend, and in pick up matches we beat Sebastien and Kolo in 3 straight matches. Take that Montreal! The highlight of the tourney for me was watching Kolo set a new time record for Ironman. Never say die. Believe it or not, I left out quite a bit. I doubt anybody is still reading at this point, but it was lots of fun for me to write this and reminisce about my summer. Big props to everybody who ran a tournament, let me stay at their place, hung out with me, shredded with me, played net with me, and drove me around places. The freestyle community is one of the friendliest communities I'm part of, and seeing old friends and shredding with them is a huge part of why I play. Much love, Ken From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 10 10:51:45 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09413 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:51:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f235.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.235]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id DAA14412 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 03:53:28 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 03:53:20 -0700 Received: from 128.214.157.220 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:53:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.214.157.220] From: "Samuli Viitanen" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] The Hedgehog Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:53:19 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Sep 2001 10:53:20.0159 (UTC) FILETIME=[CDD452F0:01C139E6] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello everyone. Jeff Lopes wrote: >Today I hit a sonic dyno clean and sealed baby. Ive named it "Hedgehog". >Just want to clarify if its already been done by posting the list. What in the world is the 'Sonic' -set?? Is it some kind of double peeking stuff or what? I'm totally confused. But it sounds cool. -Samuli Viitanen, Team Finland ps. Is anyone outside Finland coming over to the annual Finnish Open Tournament (held in Turku this year) on the last weekend of September from the 28th day to 30th? Because it's going to be an event you don't want to miss!!! From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 10 14:27:32 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA10667 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 14:27:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Dan Klokow Received: from borg.switch.rockwell.com ([199.191.58.9]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA04571 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 13:59:37 -0700 Received: from eccentralhub.switch.rockwell.com (eccentralhub [131.198.190.236]) by borg.switch.rockwell.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20877 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 15:53:41 -0500 (CDT) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] CIC Shred .. new video out MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.7 March 21, 2001 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 15:59:13 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on ECCentralHub/EC/Rockwell(Release 5.0.7 |March 21, 2001) at 09/10/2001 04:03:32 PM, Serialize complete at 09/10/2001 04:03:32 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, As some of you know, Chicago's scene is growing tremendously!! So, I've put together a 52-minute film about the craziness happening here in Chi-town. If you would like a copy please e-mail me privately. The meager cost is to hopefully cover some of the funds that I've used to make the video. Again please e-mail me privately if you are interested... Home - pornstar2713@prodigy.net Work - klokow@ec.rockwell.com Thanks! P.S. The New Year's Jam this year will be insane so make arrangements now for the trip! Dan Klokow Chicago Inner Circle Work - (630) 985-4272 Home - (708) 482-4339 Cell - (708) 785-2530 From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 10 18:07:55 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA12250 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 18:07:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ds9.bie.ispi.net (ds9.bie.ispi.net [206.131.202.23]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA05929 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 14:34:43 -0700 Received: from chrish.planetquake.com (chekov.bie.ispi.net [206.131.202.206]) by ds9.bie.ispi.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f8ALYG505503 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 16:34:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20010910162313.00ad7810@mail.planetquake.com> X-Sender: shatter@mail.planetquake.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 16:29:14 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Chris Holden Subject: [freestyle] All Sets In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org There has been a lot of discussion lately about different types of sets, and since I'm working on moves list, I want to create a full list of sets. I'm only looking for sets that are always the same (ie: Stepping: CLIP > OP IN). If you have any additions, I'd like the Jobs' Notation for it. I'm sure some of these are wrong, I looked all over trying to find different sets, and some I could only find a name. This is what I have so far, corrections, comment, additions are what I want: [Moderator's Note: please reply directly to the author, do not cc the list itself; once he gets replies from folks, he can send it back out again with all the updates. Everyone doesn't have to see every note. Thanks. -Steve] Stepping: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > Pixie: TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > Fairy: TOE > SAME OUT [DEX] > Atomic: TOE > OP OUT [DEX] > Miraging: SET > OP IN [DEX] > Bubba: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > Tapping: TOE > OP OUT [DEX] (plant) > Ducking: SET > DUCK [BOD] > Diving: SET > DIVE [BOD] > Spinning: SET > SPIN [BOD] > Terraging: TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > Barraging: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > Pogo: CLIP > (no plant while) OP IN [DEX] > Gyro: CLIP > (BACK/FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > Quantum: TOE > OP IN [DEX] > Shooting: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > OP OUT [PDX][DEX] > Sonic: ?? Leaning: ?? Sailing: TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > Surging: SET > (BACK/FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > OP IN [DEX] > Blurry: Stepping Paradox Thanks! Chris Holden mailto:shatter@planetquake.com http://www.beatricene.com/footbag/ Calendar of Events: http://www.beatricene.com/cgi-bin/footbag-calendar/calendar.cgi From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 10 18:07:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA12254 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 18:07:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from femail25.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail25.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.15]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA13068 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:16:36 -0700 Received: from acer ([24.67.188.141]) by femail25.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010911001635.CGAK18062.femail25.sdc1.sfba.home.com@acer>; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:16:35 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01c13a57$02060800$8dbc4318@ok.shawcable.net> From: "Jeff Lopes" To: freestyle@footbag.org References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] The Hedgehog Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:16:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sonic Set: a peek, than a quick spin in the other direction to a move. In this case far dyno. Lopes From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 11 10:44:44 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14792 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:44:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f67.hotmail.com [216.32.181.67]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id CAA06102 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 02:51:10 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 02:51:10 -0700 Received: from 145.18.242.110 by lw2fd.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:51:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [145.18.242.110] From: "Brian Mckenzie" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Switzerland, Flutlug Festival Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 04:51:09 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Sep 2001 09:51:10.0397 (UTC) FILETIME=[49218ED0:01C13AA7] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just wanted to give props to all the Swiss players who were down at the Flutlug Festival, Jan Zimmerman and about ten others. Most of these players aren't seen in the states, but there is some real talent down there, a lot of female players too, a very well rounded, strong scene. We all busted hard all day last Saturday at the Flutlug festival and got a huge response from the crowds, it was a great time. Also, hello and congrads to everyone at worlds for putting on such a great event, I wish I could have been there. Also, there will most likely be a small indoor jam in Amsterdam in late october or early November, details to be announced as soon as I figure them out. Brian Mckenzie From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 19:22:29 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27427 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:22:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.119]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA02742 for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:40:36 -0700 Received: from storefull-616.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-616.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.26]) by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DCB11218 for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:40:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from production@localhost) by storefull-616.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id MAA09540; Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:40:18 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhRL2sV1OfT7ekQU0o8PCgW5ejXvOwIVALezjaizWmB2NguY/Qpkb6rhyiOx From: Greg Nelson Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:15:40 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Cruizin' Message-ID: <22450-3BA8F4A2-594@storefull-616.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hiya shreddy people- I was wondering who all is planning to go to Georgia on the 29th. Ellis? Please e-mail me individually. Thanks, Mr. Smoothie From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 19:27:07 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27471 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:27:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.106]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA10311 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:54:34 -0700 Received: from acer ([24.67.188.141]) by femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010913015434.LVQG2633.femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com@acer> for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:54:34 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01c13bf7$11749b20$8dbc4318@ok.shawcable.net> From: "Jeff Lopes" To: Subject: [freestyle] Chinas Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:16:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org WOW China Lavers are amazing. Plus the WFA got them to me in canada in 5 days. I highly recommend these shoes for footbag. They are lighter than original BY FAR. Peace Lopes From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 19:29:10 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27487 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:29:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f143.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.143]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA10859 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:17:25 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:17:22 -0700 Received: from 161.184.28.205 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:17:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.28.205] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] swirling torque? Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:17:40 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Sep 2001 19:17:22.0886 (UTC) FILETIME=[B7237E60:01C13C88] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have two questions. First off, I successfully landed a trick I've been practicing for a while now called a swirling torque. It goes like this: Clip-Same Front Swirl(DEX)-Back Spin(Bod)-OP clip(XBD)(DEL) Will someone please tell me if this is a real move? The swirl seems a little weak, but it is a dex. If this is truly a four-add move, it could open up a whole new world of high-add tricks (Blurry whirling swirling Torque?), but even if it's not four adds, it still looks cool! Second, my buddy in Calgary told me he pulled off a trick and after figuring the add count he came to 9! I always thought you had to be super-human to do a 9-add trick, but he swears by it! Here's the trick he said he did: Clip-Op in(DEX)-OP out(DEX)-Same out(DEX)-Back spin(BOD)-Same IN(PDX)(DEX)-Back spin(BOD)-Same clip(XBD)(DEL) Making for a Shooting spinning Blender with an extra legover. Is it just my opinion, or is this move impossible? I think my friend is a liar. If someone tries and lands this, I think they're super-human, but on the offchance, if anyone ever has, let me know! They are Superman! -Dylan Livingston From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 19:29:12 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27494 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:29:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from f04n01.cac.psu.edu (f04s01.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.31]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA16718 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:41:45 -0700 Received: from psu.edu (tnt3-167-181.cac.psu.edu [130.203.167.181]) by f04n01.cac.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA37408 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 17:41:43 -0400 Message-ID: <3BA15273.98B56B31@psu.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:18:40 -0700 From: Kaiser Ahmad X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Inspinning... and other stuff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well, let me just say that I am originally from NYC, and I have found out that my family and friends (NYFA and others) are all ok. I hope that any of you who live in NYC or DC or who have friends or family in NY or DC are well and I honestly send everyone my best. The true purpose of this e-mail is to make sure that the footbag community (freestyle, net players, golf, etc...) are all ok after recent events. However, since this message is supposed to be solely for a footbag forum, I will mention some freestyle. Inspinning is cool, inspinning is very cool when you figure out the little aspects involved (I honestly think I have found the trick to it). It is fun, and energy efficient in shred (gives you a second to breathe in between moves, at least it does for me), and you can add a lot of moves to the end of it (not that I really have that many inspinning moves). Leaning set may be cool too, but I am not Eric Wulff or Tuan Vu and I can't do it yet. On a side note, if you have seen "The Sickening" (great video, worth the money), then look at the freeze frame of Timberwulff. Look at his face, now that is effort!!! Footbag is cool, breaking in new lavers sucks, and Mexican wrestling is more entertaining than the American wrestling. La Parka does rule. -Soze PST - Original Recipe From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 19:35:55 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27602 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:35:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web9804.mail.yahoo.com (web9804.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.214]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id EAA29989 for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2001 04:43:10 -0700 Message-ID: <20010916114310.34161.qmail@web9804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.255.209.15] by web9804.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 16 Sep 2001 04:43:10 PDT Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:19:40 -0700 From: Paul Munger Subject: [freestyle] footbag.com To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello list, Hi steve:) Hu-Mungis here... I have not been on the seen for some time now and for this I am sorry. For myself mostly for falling away from something that I truly love, but also to any other players out there whom I may have let down by walking away. I am back into it some what now and I will be around from time to time. Age and old injuries still hurt but I will be playing a bit when I can. I still love all of the friends (old and new)that make this sport like none other. This brings me to my original point. "IF" we are such a big and dynamic group of the footbag community then "WHATS UP WITH FOOTBAG.COM????" Well I wrote a letter to footbag.com and I received a response. As funny as it is I would like to share it with all of you here if the GODS will allow it.. You know who u R... Lemme know what you all think..... Paul -- cut here: >From: Sandra O'Connor >To: Paul Munger > >Hello, > >We are happy you are happy with your footbag kicking skills which >apparently have been honed to the competitive kicking style called >stalling or juggling which is not freestyle per se. That is a >misnomer used by a certain website and an aggressive organization >which have tricked people who were only exposed to stalling and >juggling and then were told it was freestyle. > >There are thousands of people worldwide who have no interest at all >in kicking a footbag competitively but prefer true freestyle >(sometimes seen in exhibitions). That is, keeping the footbag in the >air and only using stalls as punctuation marks, usually when kicking >to music (footbag dance). Kicking is a fitness activity approaching >a martial art. It has been done for hundreds of years and focuses on >keeping the footbag in the air and doing graceful moves during the >time it is in the air, not stalling it. If you will go to >"instruction" on the left menu in footbag.com, click on it and then >click on the options there you will find out about true freestyle. >Footbag.com does not encourage stalling the footbag exclusively nor >does it encourage competition. To see how we feel about footbag >kicking please click on "message" in the top menu. > >There is a hoax going on about "freestyle" and people who have >wished to compete have been denied the knowledge of true freestyle. >It's OK to do what you do and you obviously love it but do not make >the mistake of thinking it is Freestyle per se. > >As to links: we have a search engine in our site that searches our >site or the entire web so why have links when by typing in a query, >being sure to put hacky sack or footbag within the text of the >query, a kicker can search our site alone OR the entire web and be >presented with many, many links. > >We hope you understand better what we are about. We have had >footbag.com for over 6 years now, only recently beginning to sell >footbags because of popular request from our users, since October of >2000. Also, we do sell a stalling footbag, called the Stalling Star >and we have had very positive comments from stallers about this >footbag. So we do offer what you or other stallers need. It is a >rather flat, sand filled footbag which is double stitched. The de >Cinco is also pretty good for stalling but is touted as a soft >footbag for the beginner. The Matrix is somewhat soft and could be >used for stalling. The Sundancer is strictly a freestyle footbag in >the true sense of freestyle and it is very firm. Stalling moves are >only a type of freestyle move, not freestyle per se. Sorry you were >never told this and we know this is the case with the people who put >together competition and the judging for same. It is something they >liked to do and did well so they started labeling it freestyle and >only allow for stalling to judged. This is wrong and diametrically >opposed to what 95% of the world's kickers do and know to be >freestyle. Footbag Dance is the epitome of freestyle, incorporating >all types of freestyle moves (especially idiosyncratic ones created >by the kicker) into a routine often accompanied by music. > >There has been a great deal of hostility aimed at footbag.com by the >proponents of competitive stalling up to and including the suggested >entry into the Hall of Fame of Danceman (Steve Blough) by Toes who >owns Flying Clipper. He was furious that the entry was not even >allowed to be known by the voters -- it was hidden. So, these are >the people who have tried to tell you that stalling is freestyle. We >think there actions speak loudly of hostility, guilt, and power >mongering. Stalberger himself told Steve that he created all the >kicking style that even jugglers are using now and Steve was >introduced as "the best FREESTYLE kicker in the world" and Steve >almost never stalls the footbag! > >So, you will have to decide after reading the material in >footbag.com what you think about all of this. If you love to compete >all you can do is stall or net play because that is all that is >sanctioned by the "old guard" structure that did stalling well, >only, and never advanced to true freestyle. > >Sandra O'Connor From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 19:42:12 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27681 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:42:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f135.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.135]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA05387 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:16:51 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:16:51 -0700 Received: from 24.244.24.112 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 01:16:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.244.24.112] From: "Jaxon Stewart" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] 8 adds? Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:25:40 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Sep 2001 01:16:51.0082 (UTC) FILETIME=[987006A0:01C13FDF] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey shredders I was just wondering if there any of you can hit any 8 adders? the highest i've hit is 5. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 19:42:13 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27686 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:42:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ds9.bie.ispi.net (ds9.bie.ispi.net [206.131.202.23]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA29367 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 08:04:28 -0700 Received: from chrish.planetquake.com (chekov.bie.ispi.net [206.131.202.206]) by ds9.bie.ispi.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f8IF4K711480 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 10:04:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20010918095128.00ad2760@mail.planetquake.com> X-Sender: shatter@mail.planetquake.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:30:40 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Chris Holden Subject: [freestyle] All Sets update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I want to thank everyone for all the information I received on sets, special thanks to Jonathan Schneider and Floyd Morgan for all of their help. I'm still cleaning up and getting new info so this is still far from done (ducking/diving still in the list but seperate). Anyone with comments, suggestions and sets to add to the list reply directly to me and I'll post updates. Updated All Set moves list: Pixie: TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > Fairy: TOE > SAME OUT [DEX] > Stepping: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > Miraging: SET > OP IN [DEX] > Atomic: TOE > OP OUT [DEX] > Tapping: TOE > OP OUT [DEX] (plant) > Bubba: CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > Spinning: SET > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Inspinning: SET > (FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > Terraging: TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > Barraging (high stepping): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > Pogo: CLIP > (no plant while) OP IN [DEX] > Gyro: CLIP > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Quantum (Slapping): TOE > OP IN [DEX] > Shooting: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > OP OUT [PDX][DEX] > Sonic: CLIP > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Leaning: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (front) SPIN [BOD] > Nuclear: CLIP > SAME OUT > Sailing: TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > Surging: SET > (BACK/FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > OP IN [DEX] > Blurry (Stepping Paradox): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > Frantic (pixie-quantum): TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > OP IN [DEX] > Swirling: SET > SAME BACK SWIRL [DEX] > Whirling: SET > OP IN [DEX] > Blazing: ?? Flailing (Symposium Reverse Miraging): SET > (no plant while) OP OUT [BOD] [DEX] > Atomic spin: reverse miraging backspinning[NEEDS NAME] Peaking: 180 backspin, 180 backspinning move. Finchy(Fairy Pinching): PINCH > SAME OUT [DEX] > (Pixie Pinching): PINCH > SAME IN [DEX] > Twisted: DRAGON > SAME FRONT SWIRL [DEX] > SAME IN/OUT [PDX][DEX] > Snapping: DRAGON > SAME FRONT SWIRL [DEX] > Rooting: The setting foot is on the ground(antisymposium) Ducking: SET > DUCK [BOD] > Diving: SET > DIVE [BOD] > Chris Holden mailto:cholden@4drulers.com http://www.4drulers.com From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 19:59:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27843 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:59:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f36.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.36]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA02948 for ; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:52:53 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:52:53 -0700 Received: from 128.148.209.72 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 02:52:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.209.72] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "Ken Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Chinas Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:52:53 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2001 02:52:53.0547 (UTC) FILETIME=[2C06A7B0:01C1456D] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Shredders, Jeff Lopes wrote >China Lavers are amazing. They are lighter than original >BY FAR. I just picked up a pair myself, and they seem pretty good so far. The only downside I've heard is that the soles wear down very quickly, probably because of the lighter materials used in the sole. Does anybody know the actual weight differences between the Milleniums, the Originals, and the Chinas? Or does anybody own a scale and all these shoes who can compare them? Peace, CF From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 20:00:02 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA27853 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:00:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f61.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.61]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA03255 for ; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:55:47 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:55:47 -0700 Received: from 128.148.209.72 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 02:55:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.209.72] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "Ken Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] All Sets update Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:55:47 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2001 02:55:47.0342 (UTC) FILETIME=[939DAAE0:01C1456D] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, Just wanted to point out that a "set" really implies that after the initial action is completed (dex/dexes), the bag is either still rising, or is at the apex of its ascent. I have never seen an actual Ducking or Diving set, and I would also question whether spins are actual sets as well. Cheers, Ken From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 21:09:10 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28379 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:09:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from femail36.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail36.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.26]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA07128 for ; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:01:15 -0700 Received: from c1277828a ([65.0.19.184]) by femail36.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010925040109.IKLS17978.femail36.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1277828a> for ; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:01:09 -0700 Message-ID: <007801c14576$e2c36c00$b8130041@sttls1.wa.home.com> From: "Alex Zerbe" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20010918095128.00ad2760@mail.planetquake.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] All Sets update (Flail) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:02:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Yall, I was wondering about the history of Flail. > Flail (Symposium Reverse Miraging) I like the move (even thought I can't hit it) but I really dislike the name. When I first saw this move at the '99 Philly Open (thanks for hosting Rob) done by Josh Penney he called it Sonic Boom. IMHO that name is much cooler than Flail. Flail sounds like its all out of control. See definitions below. flail To wave or swing vigorously; thrash: flailed my arms to get their attention. To thresh using a flail. To move vigorously or erratically; thrash about: arms flailing helplessly in the water. To strike or lash out violently: boxers flailing at each other in the ring. My question is this..... Who named Flail and is a name change even possible? I know my post sounds like one of a moron but the name really bothers me for some odd reason. (no offense to the namer intended). On a side note. Has anyone ever hit symposium quantum, and if so what has been hit out of it? Alex RCS, Seattle From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 21:36:03 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28581 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:36:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from femail44.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail44.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.38]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA08343 for ; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:31:32 -0700 Received: from c1277828a ([65.0.19.184]) by femail44.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010925043132.JBVI6918.femail44.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1277828a> for ; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:31:32 -0700 Message-ID: <00a201c1457b$1e540000$b8130041@sttls1.wa.home.com> From: "Jane Jones" To: Subject: [freestyle] footbag media Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:32:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey there, I was flipping through the Oct 2001 Outside magazine today and saw (I think on pg. 107--or near there) a section advertising a SandMaster footbag. I'm not positive about the name of the bag, but it was something to that effect. There was a picture of the black and blue sand bag with a little blurb about how hacking was made easier with this shapely, sand-filled bag...easier to recover shanks, yatta yatta yatta. Aside from the fact that they called it a hacky sack, they did mention that it could be ordered at the World "Footbag" Association's website for $12. The magic word! Just thought I'd throw that out there...I'm sure my facts aren't straight, but it was definitely in the Oct. Outside mag. Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 21:41:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28644 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:41:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (cpmta 8841 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2001 21:36:13 -0700 Received: from dsl-64-194-176-97.telocity.com (HELO pinkus) (64.194.176.97) by smtp.directvinternet.com (209.228.33.217) with SMTP; 24 Sep 2001 21:36:13 -0700 X-Sent: 25 Sep 2001 04:36:13 GMT Message-ID: <000a01c1457b$87c7d980$61b0c240@pinkus> From: "Chris Pinkus" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20010918095128.00ad2760@mail.planetquake.com> <007801c14576$e2c36c00$b8130041@sttls1.wa.home.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] All Sets update (Flail) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:35:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Alex Zerbe wrote: When I first saw this move at the '99 Philly Open (thanks for hosting Rob) > done by Josh Penney he called it Sonic Boom. IMHO that name is much cooler > than Flail. > Flail sounds like its all out of control. I remember you mentioned it at Worlds, and I too like sonic boom much better. You can get much better names from it. Has anyone hit atomic flail btw? I hit it a few weeks ago, and was wondering if it had a name. Super Nova would be cool. > Who named Flail and is a name change even possible? > I dont know if a name change is possible, but maybe a poll would be the only way to solve it. Chris Pinkus From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 21:54:06 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28812 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:54:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Message-ID: <001f01c1457d$804f6540$6401a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> From: "Allan Haggett" To: Cc: Subject: [freestyle] all sets update Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:49:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Chris & all, First of all: Long Live Steve!! The List is Alive!! Props to Chris for doing the compilation. Just a couple of additions/mods I would suggest: 1) Infracting. (Kenny coined it, I believe) It's the opposite of a Refraction, done as a set. 2) To be oh so picky, I believe Root'ing' should be Root'ed'. (ie Rooted Superfly sounds better to me, and "makes more sense" than Rooting), and could also be refered to as Zoid set to give respect to James Roberts, though I'm not sure if his was a set or a single move. Some clarification from James? 3) I would argue that spins CAN be sets as long as the spin[s] is completed while the bag is still on it's way up. I see no reason to exclude them just because they aren't dexes. Ken? 4) Isn't Blazing, a whirling set? Thanks go to Paul Munger for posting about footbag.com... I haven't laughed that hard for a while. Allan PS I shot a butterfly into a mobius today :) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 21:54:09 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28821 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:54:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from c1277828a ([65.0.19.184]) by femail35.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010925044911.JNQA29954.femail35.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1277828a>; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:49:11 -0700 Message-ID: <00c801c1457d$94258540$b8130041@sttls1.wa.home.com> From: "Alex Zerbe" To: "Chris Pinkus" , References: <4.3.1.2.20010918095128.00ad2760@mail.planetquake.com> <007801c14576$e2c36c00$b8130041@sttls1.wa.home.com> <000a01c1457b$87c7d980$61b0c240@pinkus> Subject: Re: [freestyle] All Sets update (Flail) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:50:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Super Nova is allready the name of a move, I think. I believe thats what Wicked Windsor calls gyro symp dlo. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Pinkus" > I remember you mentioned it at Worlds, and I too like sonic boom much > better. You can get much better names from it. Has anyone hit atomic flail > btw? I hit it a few weeks ago, and was wondering if it had a name. Super > Nova would be cool. > > Who named Flail and is a name change even possible? > > I dont know if a name change is possible, but maybe a poll would be the only > way to solve it. > A poll would be great IMO. The only problem is that soinc has been coined for another move/set. Boom is a cool name though. I'm sure people could come up with several good ideas. Alex From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 22:10:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28967 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:10:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f39.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.39]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA09862 for ; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:07:13 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:55:59 -0700 Received: from 63.224.251.200 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 04:55:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.224.251.200] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Spins set and something really weird Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 04:55:59 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2001 04:55:59.0669 (UTC) FILETIME=[5E7F6E50:01C1457E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Gang, CF said he doesn't think spins are a set (sorry, deleted the post). I would argue that if you watch carefully on video you're in position after a spin close to or slightly before the bag peaks. And on the note of spinning sets, I've been doing something for a while now (well a few weeks), but I was holding off on writing the list until I could get it on video (which I haven't). Anyway it goes like this: toe>same in>duck>back spin>... Basically a pixi ducking spinning set, or as I call it wahnsinnig. So far I've only hit it to toe (Wahnsinn), kick, and I just missed to butterfly. Has anyone done/seen/tried this set before? Cheers. -Andrew P.S. Many props to Steve for donating his nonexistent free time to keep this amazing resource running. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 22:16:25 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28992 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:16:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from c1277828a ([65.0.19.184]) by femail25.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010925050826.KUPW1191.femail25.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1277828a>; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:08:26 -0700 Message-ID: <00e601c14580$42a19260$b8130041@sttls1.wa.home.com> From: "Alex Zerbe" To: "Allan Haggett" , References: <001f01c1457d$804f6540$6401a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> Subject: Re: [freestyle] all sets update Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:09:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allan Haggett" > 4) Isn't Blazing, a whirling set? Blazing is a whiriling set where the move afterwards is done in front of you and Blistering is where the move is done behind you. For example, Blazing Whirl would kind of be like Blurry Whirl and Blistering Whirl would be a Whirling Gyro Whirl. Alex From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 22:32:25 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29160 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:32:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA10882 for ; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:28:34 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GK703C01DVHVA@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:28:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GK703BGUDVHHF@clem.mscd.edu>; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:28:29 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:14:31 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] footbag.com To: freestyle , Paul Munger Message-id: <3BAE0F42@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Boy oh boy oh boy oh boy! I get so fired up when I read the crap that the people from footbag.com write. Actually I should say the Sandra woman. About a year ago she was sneaking around on this list and caused quite a stir when she finally showed her colors. Hell she's probably around here somewhere even as I type. I think it would be pointless to tear apart the letter she wrote to Paul because if she's not here, and even is she is, it's pointless to argue with a Zealot. So allow me to say this: Footbag.com is a cult. Like most cults they worship a single human individual (and a patriarichal one I may add) whom they rise to divine status or at least believe has been touched by divinity. Namely Steve Blough. Steve is proclaimed by his followers to be the best at footbag dance, or what is surprisingly named "Bloughchi". And of course his followers come to do battle in his name (i.e. Sandra O'Connor) to defend the world against a tyranny of evil freestyle wannabe's who are taking the world by storm (i.e. us). All the while claiming they have the true gospel. Now we ourselves are not without our religious perspective. Except instead of limiting ourselves to only one deity we have an entire Pantheon of divinity to worship. Each Being (male and female alike) having his or her own style and beauty for us to praise and exalt to a higher level as well as role models for us to aspire to. Of course none of us has all of freestyle wrapped up in our little fingers, it is something we strive for, a nirvana of sorts. But please let us not fight, we're closer than them ayway :) I only have one last thing to say... Matt Churney is the BEST example of a "Free"styler who competes. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Sep 24 23:41:14 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA29626 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:41:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:26:44 -0700 Received: from 128.148.209.72 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 06:26:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.209.72] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "Ken Somolinos" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] All Sets update (Flail) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 02:26:44 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2001 06:26:44.0281 (UTC) FILETIME=[0BBD4A90:01C1458B] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, >Alex Zerbe wrote: >When I first saw this move at the '99 Philly Open > done by Josh Penney he >called it Sonic Boom. As I recall, Josh's names were: Symp reverse mirage= sonic boom PS reverse mirage= flail Symp bubba= Zoik! hey James, do you have a name for PS egg? And has anybody else hit ducking PS reverse mirage? And I believe Flail was named to reflect what the move looked like, so the out of control wild aspect is on purpose I believe. > >Super Nova is allready the name of a move, I think. >I believe thats what Wicked Windsor calls gyro symp dlo. Not quite. Gyro flurry is flurricane, and the SD guys were calling Symp DLO nova I believe. So when Windsor hit symp Gyro DLO, he called it novacaine. And I think Supernova was proposed for Symposium Fog. But I think Allen hit GSDLO before windsor did, so I don't even know what it's called. Whole other can of worms. As for whether spins can be sets, it really depends on how it's done in my opinion. It's definitely possible, which is why i left some room in my definition of a set. I just didn't want spins and ducks to be automatically included in the category of sets. Speaking of which, is anybody hitting stuff off of a true terraging set? Anyway, keep shredding everybody. Ken PS- Thanks for getting the lists back up Steve, it's nice to feel connected to the freestyle community for all of us shredding in the middle of nowhere. PPS- I just wanted to concur with Kaiser that all of NYFA and their families are fine in the wake of the WTC bombings. Thanks to everybody who sent me e-mails checking to see I was ok. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 25 11:15:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA32070 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:15:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11403.mail.yahoo.com (web11403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.233]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id LAA03099 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:11:43 -0700 Message-ID: <20010925181143.42339.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.73.250.22] by web11403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:11:43 PDT Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:11:43 -0700 (PDT) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] All Sets update (Flail) To: freestyle@footbag.org, Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Ken Somolinos wrote: > hey James, do you have a name for PS egg? paradox symposium eggbeater = whisk Dig? From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 25 20:11:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA32731 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:11:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.35]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA10121 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:15:37 -0700 Received: from c1277828a ([65.0.19.184]) by femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010925211536.NCXJ14069.femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1277828a> for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:15:36 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01c14607$87fffae0$b8130041@sttls1.wa.home.com> From: "Jane Jones" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] footbag.com Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:17:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Speaking of Matt Churney's excellent competitive FREEstyle, how about Gary Lautt?! He had one of the coolest routines I've ever seen--so artistic and all in the groove. I don't think he did more than one or two stalls. Cool flowy arms circling through the path of the bag. There was a kid at Europeans 2000 with flowy arm movements like that too. Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 25 20:17:01 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA32743 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:17:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from atlantic.mail.pas.earthlink.net (atlantic.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.179]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA10498 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:23:37 -0700 Received: from jaymolde (user-2injks4.dialup.mindspring.com [165.121.211.132]) by atlantic.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA18091; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001d01c1460a$4b1b9280$84d379a5@jaymolde> From: "Jay Moldenhauer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] footbag.com Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:37:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.footbag.org id UAB32743 A true freestyler knows that freestyle is just that........it is freestyle. It is open to interpretation. Freestyle is currently competitive in many different arenas. Skiing(downhill),water skiing, skateboarding, etc. I do believe all these events have competitions. If that is the case, then a lot of people would be very upset to find out that what they are doing is not really freestyle, because they are............quiet now............doing other things than what they are supposed to be doing. Let's take a skateboarder. All he should be doing is skating on his board and not flipping the board, or riding the rail, or flipping his body, or spinning in the air. Hopefully, I am making my point. I think that freestyle is whatever you want it to be. The people that make up the rules to compete by, have decided that freestyle at the World Footbag Championships should work within the guidelines, that the players agreed upon. That does not take anything away from the kickers out there that just like to kick. All it says is that the players that decided to compete like the stalling aspect better than the kicking aspect. Peter Irish made kicking look beautiful. The same goes for Brent Welch, who could do many freestyle kicks. Stalling the footbag seems to appeal to the competitor more than the kicking. If this wasn't the case, (and things could change over time by allowing the kicking part of the game to be included as a compulsory,(i.e.,figure skating, another form of freestyle)), then you would see more competitive kickers lobbying for kicking to have a voice or a division to play in. My bet is that stalling would attract more viewers. With all due respect to Steve Blough(Danceman): Who determined who "the best FREESTYLE kicker in the world" really is?????? Steve is probably a very good kicker and at some point in time could be admitted into the footbag hall of fame. If Toes says he is that good, then he is probably that good. If ......Stalberger himself told Steve that he created all the kicking style that even jugglers are using now and Steve was introduced as "the best FREESTYLE kicker in the world" and Steve almost never stalls the footbag!,.....then the question I have is this, who introduced Steve as such. And another thing, "the best FREESTYLE kicker in the world" seems to suggest that he is a kicker and that's it. Steve is not a staller and the governing body for footbag sports has set forth the guidelines for what will win someone a title in competitive freestyle. I would also be willing to bet that Steve has attempted to stall the bag and even tried a few of the tricks and has figured out that stalling is very difficult compared to kicking. I would also like to know how old Steve is. The reason is younger players have the definite edge when it comes to the sheer leg speed and explosiveness of the stalling aspect. I would love to kick with Steve, because I have a deep appreciation for good kickers. I don't kick much anymore. I have problems with my feet still after all these years away from the game. But, the point is this. Nobody has tricked anybody into thinking anything. It sounds like a lot of animosity on the part of footbag.com and I would be willing to guess, that footbag.com has social kickers logging on and footbag.org is where the truly hungry go to learn more. In their minds they are searching for freestyle help. Nobody is out there tricking them. I have personally performed in front of more than 300,000 kids with my old partner Greg Nelson and have had more oohs and ahhs over the big kicks. They love the big kicks, especially the younger kids, but, at the same time the questions all center on doing the stall............................I would think that sums up what the people want. Respectfully, Jay Moldenhauer From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 25 20:17:16 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA32753 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:17:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32750 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:17:15 -0700 Received: from I (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA28526 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:14:50 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002a01c14607$87fffae0$b8130041@sttls1.wa.home.com> References: <002a01c14607$87fffae0$b8130041@sttls1.wa.home.com> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:14:49 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] footbag.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:17 PM -0700 9/25/01, Jane Jones wrote: >how about Gary Lautt?! You hit that nail on the head. I am desperately seeking video of his round 1 routine so I can put it on my website. I have been for a while. So, again, I beg -- if anyone has Gary Lautt's freestyle routine from Worlds on video, please write me immediately! (Thanks.) For the record, Gary's routine at Worlds this year was incredible. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 25 20:26:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00346 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:26:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA22658 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:03:16 -0700 Received: from 0017407414 (sdn-ar-006nynyorP131.dialsprint.net [168.191.121.195]) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA03338 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:03:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004501c14626$afba2c80$c379bfa8@0017407414> Reply-To: "Josh Penney" From: "Josh Penney" To: References: <200109251950.MAA32183@list.footbag.org> Subject: Re: [freestyle] All Sets update (Flail) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:59:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org First and foremost, I concur with superprops to Steve Goldberg. Who da man? True I don't write to the list much, but I'm like that Betel-guy, say my name three times and, well... you know. Regarding my tricks, I must agree with lil' Ken Somolinos, his nomenclature and memory are dead-on. Now, if only he could hit REPTAR, that pixie ducking symposium double leg-grab thing WHILE eating that stupid cereal we found across the street from Bob's place... Honestly, though- we must give credit where it is due. I learned 'Sonic_Boom!' (the name must always be shouted, or at least spoken emphatically in as high a register as possible) from Brendan McMurray, upon coming through town, somewhere between 96 and 98. He had no name for it, and called it "*this* thing". I also recall that he learned it from someone else, but that was in a Moment Of Clarity. (By the way, Brendan- speaking of a moment of clarity- I didn't forget about that $20). However, the name 'flail' came about soon after worlds 98, seeing the Regulator rock out a spinning symposium reverse mirage. It described my (at the time, comparative to Ryan) lack of control over that move. Before that I just called it PSRM. or MSRP or something. At some point later, some of you "listies" may recall when Enlightener said he was hitting a nuclear symposium something, and wondered if it had been hit and was named. That is the only part of my tale verifyable online, as the rest is a dull and fading memory. JP ps Ken, I recall the Chinas weighing just under 4oz lighter than the originals, and *just barely* heavier than the Milleniums. No, I didn't use a scale. > As I recall, Josh's names were: > > Symp reverse mirage= sonic boom > PS reverse mirage= flail > Symp bubba= Zoik! From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Sep 25 22:48:42 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA00656 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Sep 2001 22:48:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (cpmta 4260 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2001 21:45:56 -0700 Received: from dsl-64-194-176-97.telocity.com (HELO pinkus) (64.194.176.97) by smtp.directvinternet.com (209.228.33.206) with SMTP; 25 Sep 2001 21:45:56 -0700 X-Sent: 26 Sep 2001 04:45:56 GMT Message-ID: <001501c14646$12644220$61b0c240@pinkus> Reply-To: "Chris Pinkus" From: "Chris Pinkus" To: Subject: [freestyle] Pixie symposium eggbeater Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:45:30 -0700 Organization: OOPS! Freestyle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I hit pixie symposium eggbeater like a week and a half ago, and If no one has hit it, I think it should be called Pandemonium. Chris Pinkus From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 26 09:16:21 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01505 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:16:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ken ([24.70.218.250]) by femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010926092611.ZZHV9924.femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ken> for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 02:26:11 -0700 Message-ID: <000901c1466d$46990ea0$6401a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> From: "Allan Haggett" To: Subject: [freestyle] Double Paradox? Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 02:26:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org OK, so I hit shooting paradox whirl the other day(>spinning osis>blurriest>....) and I'm thinking wow, if shooting torque is 7 adds then I guess this is too.... cool.... but then I started thinking about why it would be 7. I was thinking a shoot is two dexes + the prdx whirl which is 4 which only equals 6 adds... hmmm.... but I've been really trying to analyze freestyle less these days so I just left it.... but it was bugging me just now so I looked it up(damn handy havin' that move list :)). Shooting gets three adds cause it has a paradox!!! Makes sense..... but wait! what about the paradox in the paradox whirl??? Is it paradox? sure feels that way.... two paradoxes?? Now you might say that the whirl isn't paradox because you set and catch with the same foot, but I'd say that the whirl dex feels a whole lot more paradox than the second dex of the shoot.... especially in a shooting prdx torque(which I haven't hit but came close to the day before this). So, basically, can one of you smart freestyler's out there help me in my confusion? Is it possible to have 2 paradoxes in 1 move??? Personally I kinda like the idea, but I have a feeling there would be someone that would have a good reason why not.... Is shooting really paradox? Allan PS hehehehehehehehehe PARADOX hehehehehehe From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 26 09:24:34 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01526 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:24:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01523 for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:24:33 -0700 Received: from I (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA26310 for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:22:05 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000901c1466d$46990ea0$6401a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> References: <000901c1466d$46990ea0$6401a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:22:00 -0700 To: freestyle@list.footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Double Paradox? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:26 AM -0700 9/26/01, Allan Haggett wrote: >two paradoxes?? Of course you can have two paradoxes in a move just like you can have paradox in spin moves. Though I'm not sure about this particular move. It's hard to imagine dex-on-the-way-up being paradox. I don't know if the second dex in a shoot is really paradox. Of course the third dex (the paradox-whirl) is paradox. It doesn't matter which foot sets; people need to move away from this thinking. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 26 11:17:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01647 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 11:17:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 10:58:43 -0700 Received: from 24.201.35.191 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:58:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.201.35.191] From: "Danny Cardonne" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Double Paradox? Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:58:42 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Sep 2001 17:58:43.0200 (UTC) FILETIME=[E15B5000:01C146B4] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Steve Goldberg >It's hard to imagine dex-on-the-way-up being paradox. what about nuclear set? Yacine has dive this set but drop it on the way down...(maybe he has hit it since i saw him try, i'm not sure) -- Danny From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 26 13:39:32 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02401 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:39:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA04029 for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 12:51:51 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GKA04901CIBQT@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:51:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GKA048JGCI76F@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:51:43 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:37:43 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Double Paradox? To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3BAEF7B3@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In my humble opinion there is no such thing as a double paradox. However, I do believe in cases such as Pdx Blur, Blurry Blur, their blizzard counterparts, and a few Nuclear moves, that an X-dex is warranted. I've never gotten a clear answer as to whether or not the X-dex was negated by paradoxes, but I don't believe it is. For instance an Atom Smasher gets X-dex. It is my firm belief that if it doesn't already, then Pdx Atom Smasher gets the X-dex as well as the Pdx. As for Shooting. There are two different kinds of Shooting moves, one with a paradox and the other without. Here's an example: Shooting Butterfly... clip> op in> op out (plant)> op out> op clip. The third dex makes it a paradox move by it's definition of returning to the side whence the bag came, or by adding a move component from the same side whence the bag came, and having the hip pivot. (3 dexes + 1 pdx + 1 crossbody + 1 delay = 6 adds) Shooting Buterfly... clip> op in> op out (plant)> same out> op clip. The third dex in this move does not make it paradox as per the definition of what makes a move paradox. (3 dexes + 1 crossbody + 1 delay = 5 adds). In regards to Shooting Whirl, I think either version gets a paradox, and the one where the whirl motion is done with the same leg that did the first dex grants the move an X-dex. So it would be worth 7 adds. The one where the 2nd dex is also the 3rd dex however does not get X-dex and is worth 6 adds. Again, I'm not totally clear as to any official rules, if there are any, on X-dex, but I do not think they are discounted (nor should they be if they are) in Paradox moves. But that's just my 3 cents. Don't shred on me, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 26 14:27:16 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02766 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 14:27:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail6.speakeasy.net (mail6.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.206]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA08611 for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 14:23:17 -0700 Received: (qmail 33845 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2001 21:23:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dell) ([64.81.78.252]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 26 Sep 2001 21:23:16 -0000 From: "Eric Wulff" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Double Paradox? Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 14:21:21 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3BAEF7B3@webmail.mscd.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, Brad wrote... >I've never gotten a clear answer as to whether or not the X-dex was negated > by paradoxes, but I don't believe it is. For instance an Atom Smasher gets > X-dex. To answer your question... X-Dex is not negated by paradox. X-Dex and paradox concepts complement/support each other. Part of the beauty of the X-Dex concept is that, by definition, an "X-Dex" can only be realized after the first complete dex (not an over dex). On the contrary, a paradox can only be counted on the first complete dex. With that in mind, one of the benefits of the "X-Dex" is... it accounts for those paradox dexes otherwise not accounted because said paradox was beyond the first in a single move. Paradox dexes are always complete dexes(theoretically passing both under and over the bag) and therefore would qualify as an X-Dex if realized as the 2nd, 3rd... paradox within a move. Eric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 26 16:50:19 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03700 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:50:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:27:38 -0700 Received: from 161.184.26.34 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 23:27:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.26.34] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Double Paradox? Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:27:38 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Sep 2001 23:27:38.0578 (UTC) FILETIME=[D48F0320:01C146E2] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Is shooting really paradox? If you want my expert opinion, and it's not really that expert, if certain out-in dexterities (Such as Barfly and Reaper) are not paradox, Shooting isn't either. I've always thought of Paradox as a dexterity that is more difficult to do when clipper set on the opposite side (Ie requiring an extra hip swivel). With shooting, the out-in dex seems almost natural, like a DLO, so I wouldn't call it Paradox. However, a Bubba Paradox Mirage, Clip-Op Out-Op In-Op Toe Is paradox, because the in-Out dex is performed by the same leg that did the clipper-set. Personally I don't think that Out-In dexterities can EVER be paradox unless several moves are upped an add, such as DLO and Barfly. With a spin, out-In dexterities are just as hard with either leg, so it's not paradox. Inspinning is another story. I still don't think Inspinning Paradox Illusion is possible, but I do think it deserves an extra spinning add. As for your main question, a move such as clip-same in-op in-op in-op toe (A paradox blurry Smear) may look like it deserves an extra paradox add, but the third dexterity is not based upon the clipper, it is based on the former dexterity. Since Smear recieves only 3 adds, despite the second dex requiring as much hip-swivel as a Blur, only the first in-out dex performed by the same leg as the clip is considered paradox. I believe this is true in most circles, but it may be just my humble opinion. To sum up: No double paradox, no paradox with out-in dexterities, and it's way more impressive to do a move that looks paradox and isn't, than to do a paradox move worth the same amount of additure. Keep shreddin! Dylan Livingston From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Sep 26 21:46:43 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA05396 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 21:46:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA01038 for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 21:34:47 -0700 Received: from [4.3.96.243] (HELO localhost) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 634645 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 23:30:00 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 23:34:39 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) In-Reply-To: <20010916114310.34161.qmail@web9804.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] footbag.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Monday, September 24, 2001, at 09:19 PM, Paul Munger wrote: > Well I wrote a letter to footbag.com and I received a > response. As funny as it is I would like to share it Gotta love those factions - even in a group so small as footbag players! Anyway, here are a few musings about the footbag.com crew: The issue isn't just stalls. It is focusing on mostly add-measurable technical difficulty to the exclusion of other aspects of playing footbag. I'll be the first to agree with them that the current popular mindset of what freestyle 'is' seriously neglects many very difficult aspects of interaction with a footbag. To be blunt and pedantic: big adds are only a small part of the footbag picture. But the zeal and fervor the footbag.com crew dismisses technical innovation in freestyle is just goofy! Yes, a bazillion weekend hackers can't see the value of a barfly any more than a few dozen hard-core freestylers can't see the value of skipping around to live music and bumping a footbag off your knees and feet in rhythm to it. So what? To be blunt and pedantic (again): Kick-dancing is only a small part of the footbag picture. I've spent the last 2 years in relative isolation trying to blend all these aspects of footbag together. Since I've retired from competition, I no longer do anything with a footbag just because it might help me win a competition. I simply do whatever I enjoy doing with a footbag. I do everything from simple kicks and 1-add stalls to 5-add moves. I skip and kick-dance to live music in front of an audience. I freestyle solo for over 2 hours at a stretch. When I finally have to stop because my legs start cramping, I'm euphoric and exhausted. And this might astound those who have known me for most of my 20+ year footbag career: I can routinely keep the footbag off the ground for 3-5 minutes at a stretch, often racking up hundreds of adds per rally. (I think I averaged about 6 drops per routine when I competed) I'm certainly not the best freestyler in the world, but I've tried to blend these two supposedly opposite ends of footbag and I think I've done pretty well. If you want to see what freestyle might be like today if BAP had never been conceived, you're welcome to come on out. I kick Thursday evenings in Columbia, MO. When the weather gets worse and the sun sets too soon, I'll change to Sunday afternoons. PS: on the double paradox thread: I occasionally work on a move I call "mirrored paradox" or "double paradox". If any move could prove that there can be two paradoxes, this would be it: clip -> same in -> op in -> same clip It is a paradox set to a drifter on the other side. AFAIK, no one has ever hit it. I know a few of you could, though, if you worked on it. Those interested in 'rewind' moves should note that this move is a perfect mirror of itself; Hence, the name. I've never hit it, but I've come close enough to be certain that if there can be a single paradox move to begin with, there can be two of them in the same move. Call it an "x-dex" if you want so you can acknowledge it without contradicting a 'just one paradox' stance. But the move and the concept are still worthy and I'll likely always refer to a move like this as a double-paradox. -Derrick "...and we all ate happily ever after." - Miles Sage Fogle From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 27 00:01:34 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA06159 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 00:01:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f49.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.49]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA05484 for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 23:26:34 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 26 Sep 2001 23:26:34 -0700 Received: from 128.148.209.72 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:26:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.209.72] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "Ken Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Double Paradox? Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 02:26:34 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Sep 2001 06:26:34.0514 (UTC) FILETIME=[5ABE7720:01C1471D] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, Chicken-man wrote: >PS: on the double paradox thread: I occasionally work on a move I call >"mirrored paradox" or "double paradox". If any move could prove that >there can be two paradoxes, this would be it: > > clip -> same in -> op in -> same clip > >It is a paradox set to a drifter on the other side. AFAIK, no one has >ever hit it. I know a few of you could, though, if you worked on it. >Those interested in 'rewind' moves should note that this move is a >perfect mirror of itself; Hence, the name. Um, the move is symmetrical down the middle, but is not a rewind move or a mirror of itself. The first dex would have to be the opposite direction for it to be a mirror of itself. If you rewind a tape of somebody doing nuclear drifter, it would be him doing a nuclear drifter. Same thing with Atom smasher or toe blizzard, or ripwalk, or nemesis. A rewind move looks the same backwards as forwards. Your move backwards would be a nuclear reverse drifter, whereas forwards it is a pdx quantum drifter. To summarize: 1. Rewind moves are moves that contain the same components, and are opposites of each other. If you rewind tape of a blur, it is a legbeater, and vice versa. Other rewind pairs are Blurry drifter-pdx leg, gyro bfly with a plant-stepping osis, fury-fusion, paradon-barrage, etc. 2. Mirror moves are a subset of rewind moves. A mirror move's rewind counterpart is iteslf. It is a move that when rewound, is the same move as when it is played forward. I think I made that complicated, but you get the idea. Oh, and my 2 cents are that there definitely can be 2 paradoxes in a move. I think nuclear torque has two paradoxes for example. Peace homies. Ken From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 27 01:02:32 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA06527 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 01:02:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail2.pvt.net (mail2.pvt.net [194.149.101.165]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id AAA08474 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 00:59:25 -0700 Received: from footbag-comp (phvD183.nextra.cz [213.210.135.183]) by mail2.pvt.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AA2AAD044D for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:59:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001401c14729$c47f68c0$b787d2d5@footbag-comp> From: "Jan Struz" To: Subject: [freestyle] A copy of Lavers - Fila 70's Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:55:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, I've just returned from Budapest on monday and I bought a great new shoe with me - its called Fila 70's. Is anyone playing in these exept me and the hungarian players. They have White coloured ones just like Lavers..you wouldnt notice the diference...but the white ones are just for women and therefor are made juts to EUR - no. 41. The bigger no. are in Blue color. I've been shreading with them for almost 5 days now and I find them as good as lavers. .. they remind me on a mutant between MIlenium and classic lavers. I couldnt find them on the internet but i'll make a photo of them and post it on our site. thanks Jan From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 27 09:09:05 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09053 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:09:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA19706 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:47:47 -0700 Received: from [207.160.174.20] (HELO localhost) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 634862 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:43:04 -0500 Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:47:47 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Double Paradox? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thursday, September 27, 2001, at 01:26 AM, Ken Somolinos wrote: > Um, the move is symmetrical down the middle, but is not a rewind move > or a mirror of itself. The first dex would have to be the opposite > direction for it to be a mirror of itself. I still call it a mirrored move - but it's just a difference in definition and terminology. I base my definition on component sequencing with respect to each side of the body. To me, the mirror reflects half of the body, *and* the sequencing is a first-in, last-out order. Maybe you might consider it a mirrored rewind move or something. Anyway, I really do think the common name for a paradox quantum drifter should be 'double paradox'. And while I'm at it, who *can* hit this double paradox move? -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 27 15:12:22 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA09362 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:12:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: David Sanchez Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA06359 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:42:52 -0700 Received: from Orbspiders@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.7.) id z.55.1b4eafe0 (30952) for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <55.1b4eafe0.28e4e947@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:42:47 EDT Subject: [freestyle] travelling...(attn: seattle and vancouver) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello shred community, I am planning on travelling solo to the northwest in about a month. I was hoping since I was going to be alone that I may find some footbag folks to keep me company for a shred or two,,, something along those lines. My plans are to arrive in Seattle on the night of november 2nd and perhaps shredding on the third sometime, or the fourth. After checking out Seattle I am hoping to catch a train up to Vancouver. This will place me in Vancouver on the fourth most likely. Unfortunately my journey can only last six days and I want to shred and shred and shred the whole time. If any of the wonderful people of Seattle/Vancouver feel kind enough to spare some shred during this timeframe I would be greatly appreciative. E-mail me privately if you can help... thanks in advance. shred it up, david sanchez philly footworks p.s. I wouldn't mind some local travel tips if you happen to know of any. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Sep 27 15:12:23 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA09367 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:12:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from radius.uti.hu (ns.uti.hu [213.163.24.1]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA09731 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:58:59 -0700 Received: from [213.163.25.67] (b-dial67.uti.hu [213.163.25.67]) by radius.uti.hu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f8RLwp916907 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:58:51 +0200 (MET DST) From: Gergo Csallo Subject: [freestyle] Zoo Festival To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 00:06:13 +0200 Lines: 13 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone! I just want to let you know, that videos of the 2. Hungarian Footbag Festival (aka The Zoo Footbag Festival) are available for download at the official hungarian website. Theres no English page yet, but I think you gonna find it. If not, heres the link: http://www.footbag.hu/galeria/video.html We are far from being real pro's, but we're on the way up :) Greets 2 everyone! Gergo "rebelkid" Csallo Ps: thanks to Dexter, Ales, Ali, Philipp for coming. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Sep 28 22:25:25 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11080 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 28 Sep 2001 22:25:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f95.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.95]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA22376 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:57:52 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:57:51 -0700 Received: from 216.27.144.66 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Sep 2001 18:57:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [216.27.144.66] From: "Stan Sagalovskiy" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] NYC Shred Event Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 14:57:51 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2001 18:57:51.0945 (UTC) FILETIME=[79665390:01C1484F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, Those who don't know me, my name is Stan Sagalovskiy and I'm one of the more recent NYFA joinees. Now straight to the point.. from talking to freestylers at tournaments I gathered that many people wouldn't mind coming out to NYC if only they had a good excuse to. Now I know that NYC hasn't exactly had a very happening freestyle scene in the past few years, though we held the Explosion in 1997. Now straight to the point.. again.. I formed a club at NYU, and after a year of wasting time