From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 1 22:30:30 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04462 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:30:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from egateout.merant.com (rock-gate.merant.com [63.79.165.2]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA25941 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 08:09:36 -0700 Received: from beavmail.merant.com (beavmail.merant.com [10.31.11.235]) by egateout.merant.com (Build 98 8.9.3/NT-8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29987 for ; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 11:08:40 -0400 Received: by beavmail.merant.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 08:08:02 -0700 Message-ID: From: Paul Vorvick To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Portland Juggling Festival Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 08:07:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org 10th Annual Portland Juggling Festival, 2001 Incredible talent expressed in a miriad of wacky ways. Not in the least was freestyle footbag. Thanks to all that made the effort to come to this fun event. I'm inspired to sharpen my freestyle skills - although cigar boxing, dice stacking, and contact juggling are competing for my time too. The Kickers: (Sorry about the lack of last names - I sometimes forget mine.) Kenny Shults Andrew McCarger Tricia George Sunil Jani Jane Jones Alex Zerbe Becca English-Ross Mike James Eric (this juggler first learned freestyle at a previous juggle fest from Kendall KIC and Kenny) Andrew, The Other Pierre and Yers Trooly. Also: Dennis Ross (Thanks for muling the yeast - I'm brewing tonight) Mag Hughes (too busy juggling to kick, yeah, yeah...) ...and a special appearance by Third World Overall: Steve Dusablon Kick On, V From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 1 22:30:31 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04467 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:30:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f234.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.234]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA04125 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 12:09:58 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 10:43:44 -0700 Received: from 161.184.25.210 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 17:43:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.25.210] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] swirling torque? Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 11:43:43 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Oct 2001 17:43:44.0397 (UTC) FILETIME=[9DB19BD0:01C14AA0] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Okay, I've gotten a lot of questions about my supposed "Swirling Torque", so I thought I'd clear a bit of it up. The real name is a swirling osis, not Torque, and I guess the name of the move is Reverse Twirl. I got the Job's wrong, it should read: Clip-Same Back Swirl-Back Spin (I think) - Op Clip. There are no dexterities outside of the cross-body position, so it is not a Torque anything. Reverse Twirl. I hope this clears the heads of anyone out there confused about my move. PS: Good luck to anyone out there who CAN do a Swirling Torque! It's a styling move that goes: Clip-Same Back/Front Swirl-Op In-Front Spin-Op clip Here's another thing! Most people say a Torque involves a Back spin! NO! It's a front spin! I've been so confused over that! The spin name is the part of your body facing the bag at the beginning of the spin, so in a torque, it's a front spin. There ya go. Thanks for everyone's input and help finding out what my move was! -Dylan Livingston From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 1 22:30:33 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04472 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:30:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ds9.bie.ispi.net (ds9.bie.ispi.net [206.131.202.23]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA12336 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 14:54:28 -0700 Received: from chrish.planetquake.com (chekov.bie.ispi.net [206.131.202.206]) by ds9.bie.ispi.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f91LsK202770 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 16:54:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20011001163629.00acf980@mail.planetquake.com> X-Sender: shatter@mail.planetquake.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 16:49:03 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Chris Holden Subject: [freestyle] All Sets Update 01-10-01 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wow! Here we go, over 40 sets listed here! I've broken up the lists to make things easier to read and I'll break them up more as I have the time to do so. Reply directly to me (not the list), if I missed anything, let me know! I still have a few to add that I know of, and more detail on certain sets that need more explaining. I need some info on the Broken set if anyone has it, I lost the email about it and can't find info on it now. sets Pixie: TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > Fairy: TOE > SAME OUT [DEX] > Nuclear: CLIP > SAME OUT > Miraging: SET > OP IN [DEX] > Stepping: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > Quantum : TOE > OP IN [DEX] > (op side component) Slapping: TOE > OP IN [DEX] > (same side component) Bubba: CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > Atomic (Toe set Illusion): TOE > OP OUT [DEX] > (op side component) Tapping (Atomic same side): TOE > OP OUT [DEX] (plant) > (same side component) Terraging (Double Pixie): TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > Barraging (High Stepping): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > Sailing (Pixie Illusion): TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > Blurry (Stepping Paradox): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > (op side component) Frantic (pixie-quantum): TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > OP IN [DEX] > Flailing (Symposium Reverse Miraging): SET > (no plant while) OP OUT [BOD] [DEX] > Fairy Atomic: TOE > SAME OUT [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > Shooting (Stepping Paradox Illusion): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > OP OUT [PDX][DEX] > Furious (Barraging Paradox Miraging): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > OP IN [DEX] > Infracting: opposite of a Refraction, done as a set. Spinning: Fairy Spinning: TOE > SAME OUT [DEX] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Pixie Inspinning: TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > (FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > Sonic (double spinning): CLIP > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Peeking (double spinning): SET > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Leaning (stepping inspinning): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (front) SPIN [BOD] > Go-Go (stepping backspinning): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (back) spin [bod] > Surging (spinning miraging): SET > (BACK/FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > OP IN [DEX] > Twinspinning (nuclear inspinning): CLIP > SAME OUT [DEX] > (FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > Neutron (Atomic spin): TOE > OP OUT [DEX] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (op side component) Whirl/swirl: Swirling: CLIP > SAME BACK/FRONT SWIRL [DEX] > Whirling: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (same side component) Blazing: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (op side component) Scattered (Reverse Whirling): CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > (same side component) Shattered (Reverse Whirling): CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > (op side component) Pogo (Symposium Whirling): CLIP > (no plant while) OP IN [DEX] > Blistering (Whirling Gyro): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > *Broken (clipper reverse whirl): CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > (SAME) *(clipper reverse whirl spinning): CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > UNS set: Finchy (Pinching Fairy set): PINCH > SAME OUT [DEX] > Pixie Pinching: PINCH > SAME IN [DEX] > Twisted (Dragon set Swirling Paradox): DRAGON > SAME FRONT SWIRL [DEX] > SAME IN/OUT [PDX][DEX] > Snapping (Dragon set Swirling): DRAGON > SAME FRONT SWIRL [DEX] > Arctic (frigidosis Pixie): FRIGIDOSIS > SAME IN [DEX] > Antisymposium: Rooting/Rooted: The setting foot is on the ground (antisymposium) Zoid: rooted toe clipper set Components of sets, but not neccesssarily sets: Ducking: SET > DUCK [BOD] > Diving: SET > DIVE [BOD] > Spinning: SET > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Inspinning: SET > (FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > Gyro: CLIP > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (same dex component) Whew! Too much information! If any of you are interested, we're now adding video to our web site! Check it out at the link below if you want, no complaints though cause this isn't announced/tested yet. Thanks! Chris Holden mailto:cholden@4drulers.com http://www.4drulers.com From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 1 23:04:44 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA04720 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 23:04:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from I (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA08593 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 23:03:00 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20011001163629.00acf980@mail.planetquake.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20011001163629.00acf980@mail.planetquake.com> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 23:02:58 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] All Sets Update 01-10-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 4:49 PM -0500 10/1/01, Chris Holden wrote: >Wow! Here we go, over 40 sets listed here! Chris, and everyone who contributed, this is great stuff! Now that it's at a stable point, I've put the list up on the freestyle website at http://www.footbag.org/freestyle -- just click on the link under the Resources section (which should be obvious). The direct link is http://www.footbag.org/freestyle/sets.html If anyone has updates, please funnel them through Chris. Whenever he sends out a new version on the freestyle discussion list, I'll update the website accordingly. Thanks. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 00:20:57 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA11046 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 00:20:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ken ([24.70.218.246]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20011002084508.RCEK1573.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ken> for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2001 01:45:08 -0700 Message-ID: <008701c14b1e$8b075460$f6da4618@gv.shawcable.net> From: "Allan Haggett" To: Subject: [freestyle] Freestyle Trials Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 01:45:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Freestyle Trials: The act of performing freestyle footbag moves onto and off of an obstacle or over an obstacle course. I have yet to actually create an obstacle course, but picknick tables, ledges and stairs rule. I seem to recall at some point on this list someone posting about something like this. I would appreciate a history lesson from anyone who might know more about whomever it was. I know I'm not %100 original on this, so anyone that's ever seen anyone try stuff like this please let me know. Jubal Hume came up with the name for it the other night after I was tryin' some stuff and I really think it makes sense. Some stuff I've hit off of stuff: Paradox symposium whirl, Superfly, Ripwalk, Symposium Reverse Swivel, Mobius...... etcetc Allan From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 12:19:49 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11791 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:19:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA23025 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:40:01 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GKP015012AS47@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 12:35:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GKP0145Y24OXS@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 12:31:36 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 12:17:23 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3BBA9AA2@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org As February gets closer and closer Red Shred Husted and I are working furiously to organize yet another awesome Colorado Shred Symposium. As we work on the details of the event I have begun focusing on how to make the judging work faster and more accurately. One of the problems with Shred Competition Judging, as far as I see it, is in the counting of tricks (which go toward the add ratio). The problem is that a quick playing style or small body type tends to allow some players to hit more tricks in a limited period of time. In the past a 45 second shred might yield somewhere between 40 and 50 tricks depending on if you are Ryan Mulroney or Big Add Chad. The 30 second Shred is pretty much the same give or take a few tricks. Certainly the add ratio is higher because you can bust out in 30 what you might have to save with 3 add's for another 15 seconds. So one of the things I've thought of (and I'd like some feedback) to make the judging more equal is a 30 trick shred contest. Basically you would start your shred and the first 30 trick attempts (that includes drops) would be taken as your total. Their would be rules that you have to keep going and can't stop for any period of time to catch your breath or you can't hit a trick, stop, catch the bag, and hit another trick. I think there would still be a time limit of 40 to 45 seconds in which your run would be completed, but only the first 30 trick attmepts would be taken into account. So if anyone, especially those having experience in competing or running shred events, would like to give me some feedback I'd very much appreciate it. Also any alternative ideas for making the judging as fair as possible is welcome. Please e-mail suggestions or comments privately so as not to bombard the list. Don't shred on me, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 12:19:47 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11785 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:19:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (qmail 37964 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 16:07:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dell) ([64.81.78.245]) (envelope-sender ) by mail12.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 4 Oct 2001 16:07:56 -0000 From: "Eric Wulff" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle Trials Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 09:11:50 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <008701c14b1e$8b075460$f6da4618@gv.shawcable.net> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is so not right I can't even begin to say why :-). That's a smile up there but really... I can't even watch things like this on tape. Makes me sick. Obviously some of y'll have never had a freestyle injury or you just don't care. A FRICKIN SUPERFLY!!? Get a blade a little caught on this in mid air and ankle... SNAP!... POW!. If you're into to taking risks for the sake of taking risks at least do it with something that'll give you a rush. Freestyle moves off a curb or a ledge is right up there with the stupidity of competitive golf :-). That's another smile... but really. Eric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 12:19:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11780 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:19:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f18.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.18]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id DAA03084 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 03:20:07 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 03:09:06 -0700 Received: from 63.224.251.200 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 10:09:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.224.251.200] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Just for fun (was: Freestyle Trials) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 10:09:02 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Oct 2001 10:09:06.0113 (UTC) FILETIME=[99CF0B10:01C14CBC] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Some stuff I've hit off of stuff: >Paradox symposium whirl, Superfly, Ripwalk, Symposium Reverse Swivel, >Mobius...... etcetc Hmmmm, I can hear my knees poping just thinking about it. On that same thought, and totally not orriginal to me I've been dinking with a concept I call interrupted, basically doing a kick in the middle of a move then dexing with the same leg before planting. My favorite is interrupted stepping whirl: left clipper, in out with your right leg, outside kick and directly into whirl with the right leg all without planting. Technically makes it 2 moves, but really cool looking. Cheers to all. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 13:22:49 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA11954 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:22:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from sam (24-205-36-184.glen-dyn.charterpipeline.com [24.205.36.184]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07289 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001801c14d11$72afef40$b824cd18@charterpipeline.com> From: "Sam Colclough" To: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle Trials Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:16:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org h e y l i s t e e s, OOPS Freestyle has also been messing around with freestyle trials. We were trying to think of a name too but nothing came up. It's all good though, I like that sound of trials. Here are some highlights: Windsor hit a double over down off of a 5 foot brick wall and attempted a triple over down... Bryan Fournier flailed off of a haystack, over an 'under construction' sign and then busted a mirage over a 4 foot puddle. Pinkus hits symposium eggbeaters up and down off of benches. I personally experiment with sets up to, and off of, a surface. I.E... Pixie set but my dexing leg lands on a bench and then I can push myself up to do the other components of the move either on the bench or jump off and do more on the way down. I can hit smear and such like that and had a brief encounter with a pixie barrage (pixie up barrage down) but it was way to scary and HELL NO do I want to SNAP POW my ankle. Yes, there IS much more danger but it looks so cool! Some other ideas that we have been testing the waters with are 4-5" thick ledges as found on brick dividers in dentist parking lots ... you know what I mean ... and its always great to move in between obstacles. Imagine the equivalent of an x-games street course but freestyle trials? hah and + we would have the gnarly injuries that the public wants to see. And the danger to make it extreme. Anyway, I think I might school this but I definitely am going to be careful. No pushing trials when I am tired and such. But yesss... it is fun stuff .. although very hard on your body even when you don't get injured. Shredding up and down stairs is fun too. We could even attach grind plates to our shoes and.... well... imagine pixie setting the bag, jumping up to a ledge and grinding, then hopping off and triple miraging the bag on the way down (cause that's the way samurai likes it). Not to mention getting technical with the grinds like switching feet.. different sets on the way up ... down... multiple moves while grinding... Yes of course it sounds near impossible but it would def attract attention. For now.. no grind plates for me eh? Just good old freestyle and all the 'trials' and tribulations that come along with it Sam Colclough big add wannabe both sided wannabe not necessarily in that order hey wow this is starting to look like a mountain slope slope slope slope slope slope From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 13:59:24 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12042 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:59:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA29937 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:39:15 -0700 Received: from sam (24-205-36-184.glen-dyn.charterpipeline.com [24.205.36.184]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12492 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001c01c14d14$963f4ca0$b824cd18@charterpipeline.com> From: "Sam Colclough" To: References: <3BBA9AA2@webmail.mscd.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:38:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Brad Kaplan was all like: >One of the problems with Shred Competition Judging, as far as I see >it, is in the counting of tricks (which go toward the add ratio). >The problem is that a quick playing style or small body type tends >to allow some players to hit more tricks in a limited period of >time. In the past a 45 second shred might yield somewhere between 40 >and 50 tricks depending on if you are Ryan Mulroney or Big Add Chad. >The 30 second Shred is pretty much the same give or take a few >tricks. Certainly the add ratio is higher because you can bust out >in 30 what you might have to save with 3 add's for another 15 >seconds. Oh my god Brad! I read a story once about a world where everyone was made equal by the state. If you were stronger or faster, they made you wear weights. If you were smarter, they would implant devices to dumb you down. If you sang beautifully, they would gnarl your vocal chords. etc. etc. etc. Its called a handicap. Everyone was equal and it was BORING. But that's not exactly my point. I still think what you propose below is horribly wrong. Ryan is FAST... way faster than most. So he wins a lot and you think something is wrong with the rules of the compition? NO MAN! Ryan was born with a particular body type which gives him a speed advantage over a lot of people. Just because I am not as fast as him doesn't mean I want a compitition where speed doesn't matter. I am inspired to train harder and harder even if it seems an unattainable goal to beat him (which I am not saying it is at all muwawa). People get better by knowing that they are not the best, not the strongest, or not the fastest. It IS called shred and, the last time I checked, the highest speed on my blender was shred. Why don't you rename your handicap event to 'pulse' or 'gently stir'. And then, >So one of the things I've thought of (and I'd like some feedback) to >make the judging more equal is a 30 trick shred contest. Basically >you would start your shred and the first 30 trick attempts (that >includes drops) would be taken as your total. Their would be rules >that you have to keep going and can't stop for any period of time to >catch your breath or you can't hit a trick, stop, catch the bag, and >hit another trick. I think there would still be a time limit of 40 >to 45 seconds in which your run would be completed, but only the >first 30 trick attmepts would be taken into account. This is like making speed the only factor in the 2 minute routine. This is ridiculous. Samurai (Sam Colclough BSW) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 14:34:27 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12107 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:34:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com (bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com [205.145.1.251]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA32673 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:27:20 -0700 Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <4CF23K5F>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:27:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA8802DC92BC@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Bob Riefer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:27:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Ryan is FAST... way faster than most. So he wins a lot and you think > something is wrong with the rules of the compition? NO MAN! If we're seeing who can bust the sickest combos, making speed a big factor doesn't make sense to me. Ripwalk>blur>atom smasher is still Ripwalk>blur>atom smasher whether it's done in 3 seconds or 4.5 seconds. Penalizing someone for having a slower style when we're judging combos (not speed) seems off base. If we're seeing who can bust the most amount of adds in a given time, we're talking about something entirely different. In this instance, speed does matter, and handicapping wouldn't make sense. Let the most adds and fastest legs win. I mentioned privately to Brad earlier that maybe having a 30 trick or 45 second limit -- whichever comes first. Seems like a happy and reasonable medium. I guess it kind of depends on what we're trying to judge. What do I know though? :-) Thanks! Bob Riefer From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 14:40:17 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12144 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:40:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA00718 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:37:01 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GKP01K01APP50@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GKP01IIOAPPOF@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:22:48 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: freestyle Message-id: <3BBAC283@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sam Colclough wrote: >I still think what you propose below is horribly wrong. Well Sam, it's not wrong, it's different. Shred competitions evolved as a way to allow hardcore shredders to rid themselves of the fluffy side of the 2 minute competition (which I personally love) and just Shred. It was given a time limit because it had to be given one. It just so happens that a biproduct of the time limit is the need to speed up your tricks in order to do better. In my opinion high speed is not necessarily better shred, it's just faster shred. The rules behind a Shred Contest are truly to judge ones ability to bust out the best tricks they can in a long run and obviously in a given amount of time. I think it's even more ridiculous to say that if I or Chad or Allan or Red or any other bumbling oaf wants to beat a Ryan or Ken or any other small and stealthy person that we have to make our tricks smaller and faster. Not only does it mean limiting the rules to a specific body type or playing style, but it ruins the grace and pleasure of the playing styles that exist naturally in each player. The idea that myself and others are working toward is to make the competition more fair for all who wish to compete. It's not to say that Ryan wouldn't still win every competition from now until he's 40, but it will be based on Freestyle Shred Ability as an overall not just speed. A suggestion I proposed at 40 seconds (and received good suggestions to make it 35) says that there will still be a time limit but you max out at 30 tricks. If you can't get 30 tricks in 35 seconds then that's too bad. So speed is still involved in the mix to some extent as well as allowing for shredders to keep style in as well. >This is like making speed the only factor in the 2 minute routine. This is >ridiculous. Actually it's nothing like that at all. It's more like making a Shred Contest open to change until we can get a solid set of rules with which to judge by. If everyone stuck to the original set of rules we'd still be using stone wheels, wearing bear skins, and killing anyone who looked different (oh wait we still do that). Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 15:44:21 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12240 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:44:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (cpmta 3132 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 15:40:55 -0700 Received: from dsl-64-194-176-97.telocity.com (HELO pinkus) (64.194.176.97) by smtp.directvinternet.com (209.228.33.217) with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 15:40:55 -0700 X-Sent: 4 Oct 2001 22:40:55 GMT Message-ID: <001601c14d25$984a0100$61b0c240@pinkus> Reply-To: "Chris Pinkus" From: "Chris Pinkus" To: References: <3BBA9AA2@webmail.mscd.edu> <001c01c14d14$963f4ca0$b824cd18@charterpipeline.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:40:39 -0700 Organization: OOPS! Freestyle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Brad Kaplan said: >The problem is that a quick playing style or small body type tends >to allow some players to hit more tricks in a limited period of >time. I know it does seem a bit unfair, but then again, alot of sports have their 'ideal' body types. Look at football. I would never be able to play in the NFL because I'm 5'7''. I do think footbag is more flexible in the ruling than football, so a compromise can be made. Maybe that first 30 tricks would be more fair. But it would still be unfair for the fast people. Alot of us can bust over 2 moves per second, and limiting 30 second shred to 30 moves would literally halve our scores. Remember, we can always practice linking our moves faster. Just something to think about before we make any drastic changes. Chris Pinkus OOPS! Freestyle From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 17:15:28 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12537 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:15:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Forest Schrodt Received: from ego.mind.net (ego.mind.net [206.99.66.9]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA07055 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:24:17 -0700 Received: from cl3036693a (cl3036693-a.mdfrd1.or.home.com [24.248.125.85]) by ego.mind.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA16590 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:24:16 -0700 Message-ID: <00b701c14d2d$ece9d8e0$557df818@mdfrd1.or.home.com> To: Subject: [freestyle] Earthdance Jam in Santa Rosa, Calif. Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:40:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Greetings, fellow stylers, Forest here to let you west coast junkies know about a cool happening in the bay area that I am going to be going to: Earth Dance 2001 Sacred Earth Festival Oct 12, 13, 14, at Ya-Ka-Ama Native American Reservation outside of Santa Rosa California. http://www.earthdance.org I would love to meet up with some kickers at this festival to either just shred or to put together a demo for people to see what we are doing with that silly little bag. Contact me if this interests you. ;) Forest 541-482-3188 PS: Shredding it up with Matt Baker and others at burningman was sweet. For those who have never been to Burningman, go, there is nothing else like it. I would like to set up a freestyle footbag camp for next summer's burningman, let me know if you are interested. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 17:17:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12547 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:17:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web13805.mail.yahoo.com (web13805.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.15]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id QAA09315 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:58:55 -0700 Message-ID: <20011004235851.20896.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [172.180.145.114] by web13805.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:58:51 PDT Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:58:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Windsor Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle Trials To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <008701c14b1e$8b075460$f6da4618@gv.shawcable.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Allan Haggett wrote: > Freestyle Trials: The act of performing freestyle > footbag moves onto and off > of an obstacle or over an obstacle course. This is one of the funnest things i have ever done...when i saw Alan Haggett doing it at worlds i thought it was the dopest thing ever. Now it does really seem dangerous, but once you get it it isn't that hard. you loose all focus of dexes and stalls and all you think about is where your going to plant your foot. Its a totally different game. I was doing some tricks up on a wall, osis to osis seems to be the easiest three adds without falling off. Well anyway when i was doing this cars were stopping in the middle of the road to see what i was doing. I mean, I've never seen that before even when i just freestyle. Trials is definitely a cool form of footbag that i think can be developed into a serious sport. Either your gonna see it and want to do it cause you like the risk factor or your gonna look at it thinking what a stupid thing to do why are these crazy fools risking damage to their bodies? So the choice is yours but don't dog anyone cause they like to danger hack. Not many people do it and a lot of people wont try it.....Especially when people actually start to get hurt. Keep bustin' it. Allan, you're the shit, dude. Eric Windsor From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 22:05:51 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12714 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:05:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail6.speakeasy.net (mail6.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.206]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA24592 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:36:40 -0700 Received: (qmail 80840 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 04:36:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dell) ([64.81.78.247]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 5 Oct 2001 04:36:39 -0000 From: "Eric Wulff" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:40:33 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA8802DC92BC@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have one of the fastest styles in footbag and I think there should be a move cap. It is clear that, as the shred rules stand, being fast is a major factor. Do we want speed to be a factor in a shred competition? Eric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 22:07:05 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12726 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:07:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA22983 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:09:19 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GKP02N01SVJTT@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 22:09:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GKP02N18SVJS2@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 22:09:19 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 21:55:06 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3BBAEB3A@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Chris Pinkus wrote: >Maybe that first 30 >tricks would be more fair. But it would still be unfair for the fast people. >Alot of us can bust over 2 moves per second, and limiting 30 second >shred to 30 moves would literally halve our scores. As I see it, it wouldn't be unfair at all. Everyone gets judged on a maximum of 30 tricks. 30 tricks is 30 tricks for you me and everyone else. It's an even playing field for all involved and it the best combination of 30 that wins. If you could hit 60 in the time it took me to hit 30 or 40 then it would be unfair because you would have the advantage of the clock. The idea I'm going for is a shred contest where the Actual Shred is judged, not the speed at which it is accomplished. I've been seeing a lot of arguments about what I'm proposing here, but I don't see anyone saying, "Hey why is a Big 3 limited to just 3. I can hit a Big 5 or 6 so by sheer volume I should win." Well think of my suggestion as a Big 30 that uses more judging than the "wow factor". I'm not trying to be a jerk, even though it looks that way. I'm just trying to come up with a fair judging system. So if the one that I propose, thanks to input from others on the list (first 30 in a 35 second round, counting drops as a 0 add contact)is no good then I'd like to get some feedback on any sort of alternative judging system, I'm not glued to mine. By the way, I love that so many people are getting into this, but it's probably a better idea to e-mail me personally so Steve doesn't get bombarded. Thanks, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 22:10:22 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12743 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:10:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12740 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:10:21 -0700 Received: from I (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA26136 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:10:46 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:10:46 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:40 PM -0700 10/4/01, Eric Wulff wrote: >Do we want speed to be a factor in a shred competition? Absolutely not! Nor should height be a factor. Nor ratio of leg muscles to bone density. I don't think it's fair that I'm older than Ryan, either. Let's not even talk about the weight factor. I think we should make weight and age divisions, and then restrict shred competition to only those people between my age and a few years older than me, and my weight and a few pounds heavier. And of course we should punish people for being *good* 'cause obviously they have an advantage. It's not fair that I'm not as good as Ryan so he keeps beating me. That's just *not* fair. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 17:05:36 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13829 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:05:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailbu.cc.uga.edu (malibu.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.103]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA05489 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 06:00:09 -0700 Received: from archa8.cc.uga.edu (arch8.cc.uga.edu) by mailbu.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0032198D@mailbu.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 9:00:04 -0400 Received: from integer.uga.edu (host-216-76-167-60.ahn.bellsouth.net [216.76.167.60]) by archa8.cc.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA31382 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:58:39 -0400 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20011005084342.009ec4d0@alpha.math.uga.edu> X-Sender: integer@imap.arches.uga.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 08:57:19 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Alexander Faber Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The Brat wrote: >I think we should make weight and age divisions, and then restrict shred >competition to only those people between my age and a few years older than >me, and my weight and a few pounds heavier. And of course we should punish >people for being *good* 'cause obviously they have an advantage. It's not >fair that I'm not as good as Ryan so he keeps beating me. That's just >*not* fair. > > Steve You're great Steve! You can whine about anything convincingly! As it is though, you forgot to mention that your points from the four-square court should carry over to your shred score. Back to Brad Kaplan's ideas, it really is clear that we need to be asking the question, "What are we trying to judge?" It seems there should be a few different competitions. The shred :30, as it stands, clearly judges one's ability to crank out tricks at a high rate while showing as great a diversity of moves as possible. If you want to see more big links, then you make something like a Big 20 competition or something to that effect. One of my favorite aspects to shred, and I hope I don't pick up any unpopular reviews for this, is style. I would like to see a shred competition in which the judging takes into account fluidity and grace in style (incidentally, this could unify a women's and men's shred competition). Of course, I haven't really presented anything that will exclude Ryan, seeing as how everyone seems so hell-bent on keeping him from winning. Maybe we should really just go with Steve's ideas. Alex Integer of P.S.T. Original Recipe From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 17:09:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13843 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:09:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.79]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA10968; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:01:45 -0700 Received: from tina ([65.230.252.42]) by cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3779); Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:01:07 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01c14db0$3c1cfc80$03c809c0@tina> Reply-To: "Tina Lewis" From: "Tina Lewis" To: References: <3BBA9AA2@webmail.mscd.edu> <001c01c14d14$963f4ca0$b824cd18@charterpipeline.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:13:03 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2001 15:01:08.0097 (UTC) FILETIME=[90235F10:01C14DAE] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The story about equalizing everyone is a Kurt Vonnegut short story found in the book Welcome to the Monkey House. Great story. Tina. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 17:09:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13845 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:09:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from 0017407414 (sdn-ar-008nynyorP187.dialsprint.net [158.252.35.227]) by robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with SMTP id f95Ea2903791 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 07:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002401c14daa$b59f9c80$e323fc9e@0017407414> Reply-To: "Josh Penney" From: "Josh Penney" To: References: <200110041950.MAA11869@list.footbag.org> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle Trials Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:32:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If any of you have never had the fortune to play with Allan Haggett, I must tell you now how amazing he is. He plays similarly to Lon Smith and GF Smoothie, aka Greg Nelson for two reasons: 1. He plays as hard as he wants, for as long as he wants. No lack of endurance there. 2. He drops the bag only when he's good and ready. All three of these sick sick freestylers hog the bag way too long, and this is NOT A BAD THING. Go! Kenny Schuyler came up with the idea of a street course at Funtastik one year. We all thought he was very creative and motivated for thinking of it, building and painting it in his garage, throwing it in his car and driving it out to the tournament, setting it up and demo'ing it for us all. Some of us not-so-secretly thought he was mad. If you saw this course, you would probably think the same. Has anyone seen the tape of Allan playing in Adrian's kitchen, long after he should have stopped? He was falling down all over the place. When we saw it laughed out of our chairs. This is further testament to the dedication of this mighty player; he is willing to be grossly injured and humiliated. Allan will be playing footbag long after his legs have fallen off, so kids, DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!! Listen to me, pros and tyros alike; when we started playing on the pavement, the idea was to get *away* from the uneven lumps on the grass, to lose the added friction of the underfoot weedage. Now you *want* to play on an obstacle course? The game is hard enough as it is without the added difficulty of obstacles. Why not play on steep, sandy hills, in the wind and rain, on marbles, underwater or if you get bored, have neighborhood kids throw rocks and small change at you while you play. Lock yourself in a small room with several dogs while giving eight-year-olds piggyback rides. Wear your shoes on the wrong feet while performing mathematical calculations out loud. Do shots. Sarcasm and insanity aside, be careful. Not being able to walk straight because you were doing something stupid is *the worst,* because we all know it could have been easily avoided. Please don't compile the danger a thousandfold by trying to be Allan, Jubal or Kenny. They are practiced professionals who know what they are doing. Relatively. JP From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 17:12:45 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14021 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:12:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f206.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.206]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA27629 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 14:06:52 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 14:06:52 -0700 Received: from 12.89.140.234 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 21:06:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.89.140.234] From: "Jonathan Schneider" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:06:52 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2001 21:06:52.0601 (UTC) FILETIME=[A814F290:01C14DE1] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I think its good to have a particular event where the fastest shred wins. Fast shred looks cool. Simple as that. Of course it is also good to have two-minute routines to music, where performance, creativity, and consistency are advantageous. And then a contest like "Big Three" affords us a great opportunity to have a contest to see who can do the best short combo of huge moves, without having to worry about drops, music, covering the composition cards, or keeping the ADD-ratio and "uniques" up (I don't really feel that a "Big Three" should be judged on the ADD count or on doing three unique tricks, considering that ADDs are imperfect at reflecting difficulty and the same trick back-to-back-to-back could conceivibly be more impressive than three different moves. I have not been to any event that ran a big-three yet, so I don't know how they have been judged). In short, speed for its own sake is just as valid and cool as is dancing in a choreographed routine. Win or lose I'll make a try at performing my best in any type of freestyle contest (except, perhaps, "trials"), and I'll alter how I play to suite the occasion. In none of these cases would I play the same as I would in an unjudged circle of my friends, anyway, and I would not stay away from a particular footbag festival because they were only running a shred contest, or only running freestyle routines, etc. I would, however, be more inclined to attend if I knew that all three kinds of freestyle contests would be held. Anyway, catch y'all on the flip side. Jonathan Schneider Outsider@footbag.org From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 17:12:47 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14030 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:12:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matthew Cross Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA32461 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:38:54 -0700 Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.7.) id z.89.d00511a (15908) for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:38:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web34.aolmail.aol.com (web34.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.10]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id MAILINID99-1005183852; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:38:52 -0400 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:38:52 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <89.d00511a.28ef907c@aol.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey all, I think steve puts it well, although I must say I'm torn on the issue... both sides make good points... but I'm not against people having physical advantages, that's just how it goes... I mean, what's next, are they going to make me wear ankle braces so i can't bend them so far? Sick 10 comps cover what you're seeking to change, Brad. Why not let sick 10 do sick 10's job, and leave 30 second shred be? Hope all's well. I don't mean to attack anyone, and I'm glad there's dialogue, and that people care about footbag issues. All it can mean is more progress :) KICK! Matthew Cross Rochester Footbag Association Rochester, NY From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 17:12:49 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14039 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:12:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.108]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA29425; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 23:46:31 -0700 Received: from acer ([24.67.167.169]) by femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20011005064626.PTBV10893.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@acer>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 23:46:26 -0700 Message-ID: <004301c14d69$7f7d2fa0$a9a74318@ok.shawcable.net> From: "Jeff Lopes" To: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 23:46:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Right On Steve. Dynasty's in sport are just dynasty's. Ryan is the best, and will be for a long time. We need to just get rivalry's going in this sport so we can all push each other more and more. Its true that some people have been playing longer than others, but look at guys like Yax and Flash? Penske? That Czeck kid? Leave the shred comp alone. No age/speed/time/ changes. The only thing I would like to see is two players go at once and BATTLE each other. Watch the 1998 BAP shred video on dallasfootbag.org. Ryan vs Ahren. Just nutz......... Jeff Lopes From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 17:12:50 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14044 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:12:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from bergman.umail.ucsb.edu (bergman.umail.ucsb.edu [128.111.125.61]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA29063 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 23:35:15 -0700 Received: from http by bergman.umail.ucsb.edu with local (Exim 3.16 #3) id 15pOZn-0006Ar-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 23:35:15 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Message-ID: <1002263715.3bbd54a32831f@secureweb.umail.ucsb.edu> Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 23:35:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Mirken MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, I got this great idea about how to even out the shred competition for all participants. I discussed it with Big Add and he described it as "the answer he had been searching for." So here it is: Add a separate scoring element, the unique/total trick ratio into the formula to tabulate scores. This would not penalize fast players, unless they just did the same crap over and over, nor would it hurt the average kickers; it might even help them. Most improtantly, the slower kickers who are barely able to churn out moves at half of ryan's speed, could increase their scores through the variety of moves presented in their shreds. Ex: (fast player) run 1 has 40 total tricks with 22 uniques (slow player) run 2 has 31 total tricks with 20 uniques Although forty tricks is a great number to churn out, if many of the tricks are blurs, butterflys, and ripwalks, that freestyler is just hittin his bread and butter moves. But if a freestyler is hitting spinning and ducking variations as well as shuffle moves, it would be much stronger. It is obvious that the second run would be, from a technical aspect, more advanced do to its variety. Anyway, its just something to think about. Tell me what you think about it guys. Jeremy "Senor Grommet" Mirken From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 18:03:58 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA14150 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:03:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail6.speakeasy.net (mail6.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.206]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA07042 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:57:29 -0700 Received: (qmail 69985 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 00:57:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dell) ([64.81.78.248]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Oct 2001 00:57:29 -0000 From: "Eric Wulff" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:01:19 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <1002263715.3bbd54a32831f@secureweb.umail.ucsb.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The basic idea of a shred contest from the very first time it ever was held was to try and judge a circle shred. If you were in a circle and someone tossed you the bag and you hit a combo. POW! This is it... right here. Here's the bag... go. Whatcha got? Now, there were immediately problems because at first the shred contest was simply an add count and players immediately just started doing the same trick for 45 seconds as fast as they could. "Wow, that was really cool how he did 52 butterflies in 45 seconds." "Yea, and did you see him do it on his weak side once or twice too! Wow!" That would never be done in a circle shred. So we came up with a formula that seems to represent a circle shred score pretty well. Now, however, we've realized that a major factor in the final score is how many tricks were done in the specified amount of time. This is a problem because we never intended to *measure* that... so to speak. It's a problem. It can be fixed. It is simple... Everyone gets 30 contacts, consecutively... drops count. We can easily come up with a time limit that clearly does not allow for rest. 35 or 40 seconds. Whatcha Got? Let's see it biff :-). Now, everyone is on even ground. Everyone gets 30 tricks. AND that guy Steve mentioned still wins. Everyone is now happy. Isn't that what we all really want anyway... For everyone to be happy. Anyone who descents from this opinion obviously does not want to share happiness. They want happiness all to themselves. So... who are ya? Come on out you none well wishers you... :-) Eric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 19:05:14 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA14204 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:05:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA09637 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:46:16 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GKR04G01GX3J2@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 19:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GKR04FB6GX3QM@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 19:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 19:32:01 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3BBB58F0@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What do ya'll think about this? 30 contacts or 35 seconds, whichever comes first, with some amount of Bonus points for a dropless run. I'm not sure how many Bonus points. It would have to be evaluated. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 12:35:55 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19118 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 12:35:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11605.mail.yahoo.com (web11605.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.57]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id TAA13920 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:44:18 -0700 Message-ID: <20011006024417.91585.qmail@web11605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.81.16.59] by web11605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 19:44:17 PDT Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:44:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellis Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org E n l i s t e d, Obviously certain individuals feel like this new system of shred contest is targeted at Ryan's disadvantage. The system was actually first tested at a tournament Ryan did not attend- SoCal 2001. I think all the participants were very pleased with the results. Sunil, Chad, and myself were the scorers/judges, and I am pretty sure we all felt that the scores reflected each player's performance more accurately than ever before. A system of 30 contacts in 35 seconds is legit. The test of a shred contest, IMO, is measured by variety, consistency, difficulty. Basically that means Uniques, Drops, and Add ratio. Really I feel execution should come into play somehow, but that's a whole other discussion. Sincerely, Ellis Piltz From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 12:35:54 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19113 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 12:35:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web13808.mail.yahoo.com (web13808.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.18]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id LAA21951 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 11:10:10 -0700 Message-ID: <20011006181010.38525.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.40.137.115] by web13808.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 11:10:10 PDT Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 11:10:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Windsor Subject: [freestyle] Victory over Violence Jam! LA sports arena To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yo list. For everyone in the Los Angeles area. On Sunday 10/7/01 There is going to be this Festival called Victory over Violence. Free Admission with music, dancing, games, and fun, etc,. People of all ages should attend. Its at the L.A. Sports Arena. The thing is goin on from 11AM - 5PM. We will probably start kicking around 12 noon or so. So if you want to go show up at the LA sports arena tommarow and just find us or something. Or get a hold of me 310-515-2962. Eric Windsor From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 12:40:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19171 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 12:40:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 20:53:47 -0700 Received: from 209.125.90.62 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 03:53:46 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.125.90.62] From: "Ryan Mulroney" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 20:53:46 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Oct 2001 03:53:47.0051 (UTC) FILETIME=[803A5FB0:01C14E1A] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Brad Kaplan wrote: >I've been seeing a lot of arguments about what I'm proposing here, but I >don't see anyone saying, "Hey why is a Big 3 limited to just 3. I can hit a >Big 5 or 6 so by sheer volume I should win." Well think of my suggestion >as a Big 30 that uses more judging than the "wow factor". No offense to the footbag shred population who competed in the "Big 3" this year, but a lot of professionals had a hard enough time hitting three tricks in a row....much less thirty. The UCSF jam had a big ten competition or something like that and people still went very conservative because a lot of people have a hard time hitting ten big tricks in a row when they are on a stage. I have a feeling that a big 30 competition would result in one of of two things, people going really easy to do thirty tricks without dropping all the damn time or people dropping all the damn time. But then again this is from the guy who has one several of these "biased" events so perhaps I shouldn't talk. Peace out. Ryan Mulroney From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 17:30:54 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20705 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 17:30:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f24.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.24]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA06672 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 16:54:09 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 16:54:08 -0700 Received: from 198.81.16.39 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 23:54:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [198.81.16.39] From: "Bryan Fournier" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 16:54:08 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Oct 2001 23:54:08.0952 (UTC) FILETIME=[30A05380:01C14EC2] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ellis Piltz wrote: >Really I feel execution should come into play somehow, >but that's a whole other discussion. I agree, EXECUTION is the missing link when scoring this thing... that would be Ryan's advantage' not speed, just precise execution.... not to say the dudes not wicked fast ... but ya you're right. so well, kick on... latex ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 18:09:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20820 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:09:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11604.mail.yahoo.com (web11604.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id RAA08355 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 17:38:27 -0700 Message-ID: <20011007003827.61863.qmail@web11604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.81.17.32] by web11604.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 17:38:27 PDT Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 17:38:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellis Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle Trials To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Josh Penney wrote: > Why not play on... marbles, > underwater, or if you get bored, have > neighborhood kids throw rocks and small change at > you while you play... Well, I've heard people fantasize about playing footbag on the moon, but really we can do that here on Earth UNDERWATER. One would need a footbag that's too big and too heavy for normal play, that is if a *footbag* would be best at all. It might be a good cross trainer, too. > Lock yourself in a small room with several dogs > while giving eight-year-olds piggyback rides. Yeah, I've tried this, and it wasn't very fun. It was when I taught ceramics in Colorado. We also had two giant deer who liked to hang out on the playground. They didn't want to play hack with me. my dumb thoughts, Ellis Piltz From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 18:10:53 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20832 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:10:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA09400 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:05:43 -0700 Received: from [4.3.96.243] (HELO localhost) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 642323 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:00:19 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 20:05:32 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org All this angst over how we pick winners and losers! There's as many ways to do that as there are footbag moves. Picking winners and losers is a social phenomenon; it has nothing to do with playing footbag except that the many of the creatures who play footbag are also ingrained with the custom of picking winners and losers. Is picking winners and losers really that important? My advice is to try all sorts of kooky 'scoring systems'! But... don't take them too seriously. What footbag means to each of us personally should never be overshadowed by the silly custom of having to say one kicker is 'better' than another. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 18:24:57 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20885 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:24:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA10377 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:23:48 -0700 Received: from [4.3.96.243] (HELO localhost) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 642330 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:18:24 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 20:23:40 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle@footbag.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [freestyle] Self serving silliness Message-ID: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org While I'm spewing my wacko notions out on the list, I might as well relate the epiphany I had a few weeks ago regarding the self-serving phenomenon. How can anyone be concerned about not 'tilting' or 'guilting' when they have absolutely no concern over not dropping the damn bag?!? Really! Shame on me for taking so many years to realize the shred culture just replaced one type of mulligan (tilts/guilts) with another one: keeping your rally going after a drop. It's silly. Besides being ridiculous, it annoys the hell out of me. So stop it, OK? 8-) -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 18:49:21 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21011 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:49:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f6.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.6]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA11121 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:40:15 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:40:14 -0700 Received: from 207.148.138.43 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 01:40:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.148.138.43] From: "Rob Fuller" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Self serving silliness Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 19:40:14 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Oct 2001 01:40:14.0857 (UTC) FILETIME=[03005790:01C14ED1] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >How can anyone be concerned about not 'tilting' or 'guilting' when they >have absolutely no concern over not dropping the damn bag?!? >Really! The concern is purely in the basis that people enjoy doing things with a level of difficulty. What is the challenge in keeping the bag off the ground by using legovers, pickups, etc... when you can do moves like Blurry PS Whirl, Mobius, Big Apple, etc... Why not go the extra distance and give yourself a challenge. I find it far more fun to do moves that keep me on my toes (Alert, not my frontside ;-)) than to do the same mundane thing over and over. >Shame on me for taking so many years to realize the shred culture just >replaced one type of mulligan (tilts/guilts) with another one: keeping your >rally going after a drop. It's silly. People don't *WANT* to drop, they are concerned about it, but would you be more concerned about keeping it going with kicks and the odd move here or ther, or insane freestyle? You can't have everything you want. Where would you put it all? Rob From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 22:53:58 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21657 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:53:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA12687 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 19:13:46 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GKT05B01CUTY9@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:13:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GKT05B5QCUTAJ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:13:41 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 19:59:26 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Self serving silliness To: freestyle Message-id: <3BBB89F2@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derrick Fogle Wrote: >>shred culture just >>replaced one type of mulligan (tilts/guilts) with another one: keeping your >>rally going after a drop. It's silly. And Rob Fuller Replied: > People don't *WANT* to drop, they are concerned about it, but would you be >more concerned about keeping it going with kicks and the odd move here or >ther, or insane freestyle? To which I reply: Derrick was talking about people who start a run, drop after a trick or two and then serve it back to themselves to try again instead of passing it on to the next person. i.e. HOGGING. Believe me I have been guilty of this more than once. It's one thing to do it if you're in a group of close friend kickers who mutually don't care... It's another thing to do it if you're in a circle in a land far from home or in a new crowd. Basically, don't worry you'll get the bag again when it's your turn. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 22:53:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21662 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:53:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11403.mail.yahoo.com (web11403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.233]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id UAA15174 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 20:02:17 -0700 Message-ID: <20011007030217.90756.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.191.139] by web11403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:02:17 PDT Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 20:02:17 -0700 (PDT) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <3BBAEB3A@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, Yeah, I was just thinking... Peter Irish can probably hit more unique moves in 45 seconds than I can. Why don't we make it a little more fair? How about, we limit the amount of unique moves to 30. Sound good? No? BUMMER! More moves doesn't always equal better score. I'm one of the slower shredders, so that forces me to push my unique moves and adds to make up for my lack of speed. Lon isn't fast either, but he still gets a fat score because he can hit tons of moves. If you want to win the shred contest, just school all your sets both sides, don't repeat any moves and it won't matter how fast you're not. "The Shred Contest" players are judged on... 1) Speed 2) Variety 3) Adds If you take any of these away, it's NOT THE SHRED CONTEST! Later, James Risden From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 22:55:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21679 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:55:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA16022 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 20:17:26 -0700 Received: from [4.3.96.243] (HELO localhost) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 642367 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 22:12:00 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:17:15 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Self serving silliness Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Saturday, October 6, 2001, at 08:40 PM, Rob Fuller wrote: > You can't have everything you want. Where would you put it all? I am the Tardus; Send me all your blurraging symposium whirling swirls! I can store them right next to the 20-minute freestyle rally I had in front of about 1,500 spectators this summer. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 22:55:32 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21689 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:55:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail6.speakeasy.net (mail6.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.206]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA21565 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:46:38 -0700 Received: (qmail 10505 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 05:46:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dell) ([64.81.78.245]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 7 Oct 2001 05:46:37 -0000 From: "Eric Wulff" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:50:26 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Execution is HUGE by default. A drop severely hurts your score in a shred contest. It's a complete waste of time and it's a zero add contact which significantly lowers your ratio. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 12:37:40 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24379 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 12:37:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f177.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.177]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA27514 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 01:30:59 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 01:30:54 -0700 Received: from 203.164.2.198 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 08:30:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [203.164.2.198] From: "Dan Ednie" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Move names Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 18:30:54 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Oct 2001 08:30:54.0881 (UTC) FILETIME=[6199A110:01C14F0A] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Footbags I've been schooling the pimping/gimping moves and I reckon some of the mainstream ones deserve names. Gimpy set should get a difficulty add. For that reason it is wrong to penalise people for using it in competition. here are some ideas for names for gimpy style moves Gimpy butterfly = Blimp Gimpy Blur = Plasma Pimpy butterfly = Pimp Pimpy mirage = Flegg pimpy switch = Ciniption City pimpy da da curve = Lumpa pimping ducking = Limping bye Dan Ednie From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 12:43:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24431 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 12:43:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from moutvdom01.kundenserver.de (moutvdom01.kundenserver.de [195.20.224.200]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA12069 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 11:45:37 -0700 Received: from [195.20.224.208] (helo=mrvdom01.schlund.de) by moutvdom01.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 15qIvV-0003Y7-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:45:25 +0200 Received: from a0a29.pppool.de ([213.6.10.41] helo=nudelsuppe) by mrvdom01.schlund.de with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 15qIvV-0003ec-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:45:25 +0200 Message-ID: <006a01c14f60$cde55ca0$290a06d5@nudelsuppe> From: "Matthias Lino Schmidt" To: Subject: [freestyle] Frankfurt Footbag Open Sick3 Video Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:49:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org People! Get this video: http://www.footbagfreestyle.de/VIDEOS/SHREDS/frankfurtopen2001/sick3_n.mpg !!! It is an exquisite selection from the Big3 contest held at the Frankfurt Footbag Open on September 29th. On this video, there is (afaik) the first documentation of a *clean* triple ATW!!! Yeah, and the guy who did it - Ales Zelinka - is not even *that* czech Wunderkind everyone is talking about.... My opinion on the shred contest issue: Speed is not a factor! It shouldn't be judged, so let's take this contact limit idea into consideration... Adios, Matthias....... [Moderator's Note: for those of you who heard me rave about Ales(h) Zelinka, I just want to say -- I told you so. -Steve G.] From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 13:22:31 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24626 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 13:22:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11402.mail.yahoo.com (web11402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.232]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id NAA16793 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 13:20:00 -0700 Message-ID: <20011007202000.92619.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.88.156] by web11402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 13:20:00 PDT Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 13:20:00 -0700 (PDT) From: James Risden Subject: [freestyle] high stepping To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What are some of the barraging moves you guys are hitting? I've been hitting fury and high stepping butterfly. I finally got jani walker on the flip too. Nemesis is soooo possible. I saw Mr. Jani hit barraging pdx illusion on video. That's insane! I'm really diggin' this set and I'd like to know what people are doing with it. So write me, or the list (i'm sure others would like to know). Later, James Risden From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 15:56:09 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25380 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 15:56:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web13602.mail.yahoo.com (web13602.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.113]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id PAA24717 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 15:52:47 -0700 Message-ID: <20011007225243.43048.qmail@web13602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.20.132.128] by web13602.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 15:52:43 PDT Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 15:52:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Shaun Marques Subject: [freestyle] Getting back into it.. To: Shred MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey stylers, I've searched through the archives of the freestyle list, and I still haven't found a *nice* (easy :-) ) way to get back into footbag. A couple of months back, I had sprained my ankle, and have taken it pretty easy for a bit. But sadly, coming back into the sport has been kind of a nightmare. Last time I recall I was picking up a few 4 and 5 add tricks, and now I pretty much can't even come close to quite a few of those any more. Is there any other methods to work oneself back into it? I mean, any good way to pick up bread'n'butter tricks aside from good ol' training/practice? Obviously reply directly to me, so as to not lag Steve. Thanks in advance. -Shaun From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 20:25:21 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26594 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:25:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA03439 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 19:11:13 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GKV00J017EKYQ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 20:11:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GKV00J6G7EKQQ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 20:11:08 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 19:56:51 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move names To: freestyle Message-id: <3BBBB23D@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dan Ednie wrote: >Gimpy set should get a difficulty add. For that reason it is wrong to >penalise people for using it in competition. I disagree on giving pimpy or gimpy a difficulty add. I personally don't think they are more difficult though they might be for some people. However, in competition I do think they should keep the add value they would normally have without the bump and should count towards Uniques as a single trick. What I see happening is that they won't keep their add value and in a competition will count as 2 separate moves with two separate add values and which I think will count as 2 separate Uniques, one with a 1 add and the other with a 3 add. For that reason it certainly wouldn't be a good series to put in a Shred run. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 20:31:23 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26640 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:31:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26637 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:31:22 -0700 Received: from I (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA07513 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:31:36 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3BBBB23D@webmail.mscd.edu> References: <3BBBB23D@webmail.mscd.edu> Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:31:32 -0700 To: freestyle From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move names Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 7:56 PM -0600 10/7/01, Brad Kaplan wrote: > I disagree on giving pimpy or gimpy a difficulty add. There's no agreeing or disagreeing about "giving" adds. The add system has been unchanged for many, many years. Everyone can point to places where the add system is insufficient or where something doesn't seem right in terms of its relative difficulty as determined by the existing system, but as to whether a given move "deserves" an add or "gets" an add, there's no point in going down this path. Instead, let's discuss ways we can redo the difficulty measurement system altogether. As I have said on this list quite a few times, it has more to do with plants, windows, and dexterities than with anything else. But don't argue over whether the existing add system is right. It's just pointless; everyone knows it's not. But until we have a better one, we have to use the one we have -- else we have nothing. (Which some would say isn't so bad. :-)) Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 21:32:22 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26833 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 21:32:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.65]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA09472 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 21:31:00 -0700 Received: from sam (24-205-36-184.glen-dyn.charterpipeline.com [24.205.36.184]) by robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f984Ux920898 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 21:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008401c14fb1$fc995f00$b824cd18@charterpipeline.com> From: "Sam Colclough" To: Subject: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 21:30:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Listessa: I was thinking. There should be a lot more posses. Everyone that wants to start a posse should do so. Just as there are many skateboard companies, there should be many posses. An argument against a lot of posses might go as follows: "If there were too many posses, I would hear all these new fangled/dumbfounded names, be overwhelmed and forget most of them. Half of the names wouldn't last the length of time in between tournaments." I think that this is a actually a good argument. It would give more sovereignty to the posses that had the highest ratios of members, and cause people to choose bassed upon which members were in what posse. This, in turn, would give the top players the chance to influence entire waves of new recruits. There are only two existing posses: Big Add Posee and Both Sides Posse. The Both Sided Posee is a relatively new one but already a host of intermediates are aspiring Both Sided Wannabes. Obviously there are many Big Add Wannabes. A person's determination of which posse they want to join, if any, could largely effect the direction of their style of play. This is another way that pros could influence "generations" of players. Another argument against it might be: "Why do we need posses when they sound so similar to the clubs on footbag.org?" Posses are different in clubs in that they would induct members. I think that is a big enough reason and should not be overlooked. Also, from what I gather, about half of the intermediates that I have talked to aspire to be in a posse. As the number of players in the sport increases, the number of people that want to be in a posse will increase as well. When the number of members in a posse becomes too large, the inherent priviledge in being a member is lost. By increasing the number of posses we would increase the coolness of being in a pro posse. I like it. Sam Colclough Both Sided Wannabe From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 23:10:34 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26920 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:10:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f21.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.21]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA11975 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:00:50 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:00:50 -0700 Received: from 128.101.109.137 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 06:00:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.101.109.137] From: "Gino Burman-Loffredo" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Backflip Rake? Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 01:00:49 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2001 06:00:50.0124 (UTC) FILETIME=[94C280C0:01C14FBE] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Shredders, I wrote in about two months ago on a backflip Rake. I was still wondering if anybody else has hit it. If you don't remember it is a backflip after a set, catching the bag on your toe while upside down in the flip. Please write me if anybody has hit this or if you no any other flip tricks that people have done. Shred on, Gino From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 23:49:23 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26985 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:49:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26982 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:49:22 -0700 Received: from I (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA13419 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:49:35 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:49:33 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] List Policies Reminder Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Members of the freestyle e-mail list, This is a periodic reminder of the freestyle discussion list policies. Please take the time to read this message as it will save you, me, and my volunteers on footbag.org a lot of time. (1) No HTML mail ("rich text" in Hotmail, default in AOL 6.0): Please (PLEASE) don't use HTML mail (ever). Turn it off immediately, once and for all. HTML mail is stupid in general, but especially problematic for the footbag discussion lists. HTML was not designed to be used for e-mail, and many e-mail programs do not handle it correctly. More importantly, fully half of our members are on the digest version of the list, which puts all mail in-line into a huge message every day and mails it to them, and HTML mail simply doesn't work (it looks like garbage to non-computer geeks). I personally hate the digest and am thinking about killing it because of all the problems it causes. But since we still have so many people using it, please respect them and only post *plain text*. Otherwise, the digest will be completely illegible. If you post HTML, the moderator may ignore you, but usually will reply with a BOUNCE message to tell you to fix it. But you have to figure out how. The moderator can't spend the time to teach everyone how to use e-mail. You people on AOL 6.0, please call AOL and complain and/or ask them how to disable HTML for your outgoing mail. Hotmail users need to always make sure the "rich text format" checkbox on your "compose" screen is *UNCHECKED*. (Mac users on Hotmail don't have to worry. It does the right thing.) Never send mail to the list in "rich text". Plain text means e-mail with absolutely no mark-up -- no bold-facing, no underlining, no font changes, nothing. Just plain, simple, text. (2) Rejection: Expect your post to be rejected if you haven't read the policies here and are not adhering to them. If you are rejected (with a "BOUNCE" message), DO NOT argue with the moderator. Try to understand the issue, and feel free to offer a compromise, but do *NOT* argue. It serves no purpose but to create animosity. The moderator is simply trying to help keep the conversation on topic and within the expectations of the bulk of the list's membership, to keep this forum as efficient and informational as possible. This is not a free-for-all. When the moderator rejects a posting it is *not* personal, and you should not treat it that way nor should you make it that way by arguing with the moderator. We no longer guarantee to write e-mails explaining the reasons for rejecting posts. It just becomes too much of a burden to get into a discussion with every person. If your message is not suitable for the list, it simply won't show up. For newer members, we'll still give some feedback to help you understand the guidelines because they are not all clearly documented. For you regulars who keep getting bounced, and you know who you are, sorry but if your message doesn't show up and you see other messages showing up with a send date after yours, that means it was rejected. If you don't like this new policy or any of the policies we're going to begin enforcing, we urge you to go start your own list. (3) Thinking: Please don't reply willy-nilly to posts on the list. Think it out, decide whether or not you want to post the message to the entire list or just to a person you're talking to. And then, carefully consider whether your message will be rejected. It wastes the moderator's time and yours if you post a message that will be rejected. And you know who you are, those of you who have the same types of posts rejected over and over again, so please cool it. (4) Signatures and From lines: Use your real full name (first and last) in the From: line of your outgoing e-mail (you must configure this in your mail preferences). Use proper capitalization in your name. (E.g., if your name is John Smith, put John Smith in your name setting on your e-mail program; do *not* put "john smith".) ONLY users of AOL will be allowed to leave their names off the From: header because many AOL users can't set this up. But all AOL users *must* put their full name in the signature. Not just first name. Both names. No exceptions. With proper capitalization. ("Proper capitalization" does NOT mean ALL-CAPS. It means *proper* capitalization. Everyone should have learned this in second grade. If you are not old enough to have gone to second grade, you are not allowed to post to the list.) (5) Read up before posting: Do not post any messages to the list until you're *completely* caught up! That means, before you post a single message, read *all* the mail on the list that has arrived since you last read mail. Then, reply to the thread(s) you have replies for, and in some cases take the opportunity to reply to multiple messages on the *same thread* in the *same message*. Don't rapid-fire 6 messages on the same thread the same night, replying to everyone else's posts. That's just a pain for everyone. But be warned if you post a single reply to multiple different threads (see 7 below), you will be rejected. (6) Don't be lazy: a. Replying -- Don't include the entire message you're replying to in your post. Cut it down to just the bit you're actually referring to, to give folks context (in fact, this is requested, see 7 below). b. Posting -- Don't post questions that you can easily find the answer to yourself. Don't ask me or anyone else either, before you check the website. The best thing to do before you begin posting is to read *everything* at http://www.footbag.org/faq (F.A.Q. stands for "frequently-asked questions"), as well as on the freestyle section at http://www.footbag.org/freestyle -- and of course the footbag.org website is the repository for most of the information people frequently want relating to footbag. For example, don't post "what kind of shoe do people use?" or "what kind of footbag do people use?", and especially not "what kind of music do people listen to when they play?" The first two are easily answered by reading the information online; the third is just plain annoying. (7) Give context for follow-up messages: Similarly, don't reply without giving context! Always use the same subject line as the thing to which you're replying, and include a snippet of the specific point to which you're replying (and not the whole message, please). Use the *REPLY* function of your mail program, which will help you. Don't manually type Subject: lines because you'll probably get it wrong. For the threading feature of many people's mail readers to work properly, the subject lines have to be exactly right. Otherwise, if you randomly change the subject line every time you post, nobody can keep track of the conversation. Especially not a year from now when they're perusing the archives. (Has everyone seen the archives? It helps a lot to do that to get some idea why this matters. http://list.footbag.org/ ) (8) Stick to one thread at a time: Don't combine two threads into one. Keep them separate so people can follow the various conversations (see 7 above). Use your reply button/command to reply to messages on the list, so that the Subject: header is correctly reformatted to keep threads together as described above. (9) Keep your e-mail address up to date: Don't post to the list from an e-mail address in the From: line that is not subscribed to the list. If you change e-mail addresses, you must update your list membership (see http://list.footbag.org/). (10) Post to list addresses only when necessary: Don't write the list itself when you can write a more specific address. a. If you want to talk to someone and you can't remember their address, don't post to the list saying, "Hey, so-and-so, if you're out there, write me." The member directory at http://www.footbag.org/members/ is your best source of contact information, and/or the list archives which show the e-mail address of everyone posting (at http://list.footbag.org/). b. If you want to unsubscribe or have an administrative question regarding the list, for goodness' sake just ask the administrator (me) directly. If people don't know my e-mail address by now, ... Also, don't be afraid that I'll bite your head off. Just expect it, and it won't hurt so much. :-) c. If you are replying to a message, never send your mail without looking back over it, seeing if the freestyle list is cc'ed or not, and only cc it if you are really sure! Many messages can just go privately and don't need to go to the list. Consider using private e-mail to follow up public posts, as opposed to completely open conversations. (Visualize it this way: every time you post to the freestyle list, you're walking up to the podium in a large auditorium and seizing the microphone. Vs. just walking over to someone who has just spoken over the microphone and continuing a private conversation on the sidelines.) (11) No advertisements: Don't even think of blatantly advertising for products or services for your own personal gain, or for that of anyone else. It's fine to edify and inform people of products, rate them and discuss them, etc., but it becomes a problem if it turns into a formal endorsement or advertisement. I run this list, under the auspices of a non-profit corporation, and with resources that cost me over $120 a month at the current rate. I will not have the list turn into a marketplace. I will not be responsible for transactions that go bad as a result of a member of my website or this e-mail list entering into any financial interaction with any other player or member. -- These are not the only rules, but the most important ones. We reserve the right to refuse to post messages for any reason. Don't take this the wrong way, but if you're not happy with how we moderate this discussion group, feel free to create your own. Thanks. Steve and the all-volunteer staff of footbag.org From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 00:36:21 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA27096 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 00:36:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 00:19:03 -0700 Received: from 128.218.21.9 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 07:19:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.218.21.9] From: "Trevor Durden" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 00:19:03 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2001 07:19:03.0866 (UTC) FILETIME=[8272B1A0:01C14FC9] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Trevor here. I've been a lurker on the list for a while and I just felt the need to speak out. >From: "Sam Colclough" >in being a member is lost. By increasing the number of posses we would >increase the coolness of being in a pro posse. Who needs to be in a posse to affirm coolness? Nobody does. Being in a posse does not make you cool (don't make me name names here). Playing footbag does not make you cool. I think the greatness of a kicker has so much more with attitude than ability. I've met some incredibly talented kickers who are total jerks and some fellow newbies who are incredibly inspirational. None of them need to be in a posse for me to respect them. We all play a very very challenging sport. Every single one of you has earned a tremendous amount of respect and appreciation from me (and many others - at the very least our fellow kickers). In my opinion if you feel the need to have yourself (and your skills) validated by others just jump into any hack circle and notice how many props you will get for even a few toe stalls or consecutive kicks. This should help put the rest of your tricks into perspective for you. You don't need any current or "nouveau" posse to validate it for you. Better yet, play for yourself, not the people around you. This way you can validate yourself *every* time you play. Thanks for listening. I guess I meant thanks for reading. Trevor Durden From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 13:07:15 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28747 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:07:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ken ([24.70.218.250]) by femail46.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.0