From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 1 22:30:30 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04462 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:30:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from egateout.merant.com (rock-gate.merant.com [63.79.165.2]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA25941 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 08:09:36 -0700 Received: from beavmail.merant.com (beavmail.merant.com [10.31.11.235]) by egateout.merant.com (Build 98 8.9.3/NT-8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29987 for ; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 11:08:40 -0400 Received: by beavmail.merant.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 08:08:02 -0700 Message-ID: From: Paul Vorvick To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Portland Juggling Festival Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 08:07:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org 10th Annual Portland Juggling Festival, 2001 Incredible talent expressed in a miriad of wacky ways. Not in the least was freestyle footbag. Thanks to all that made the effort to come to this fun event. I'm inspired to sharpen my freestyle skills - although cigar boxing, dice stacking, and contact juggling are competing for my time too. The Kickers: (Sorry about the lack of last names - I sometimes forget mine.) Kenny Shults Andrew McCarger Tricia George Sunil Jani Jane Jones Alex Zerbe Becca English-Ross Mike James Eric (this juggler first learned freestyle at a previous juggle fest from Kendall KIC and Kenny) Andrew, The Other Pierre and Yers Trooly. Also: Dennis Ross (Thanks for muling the yeast - I'm brewing tonight) Mag Hughes (too busy juggling to kick, yeah, yeah...) ...and a special appearance by Third World Overall: Steve Dusablon Kick On, V From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 1 22:30:31 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04467 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:30:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f234.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.234]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA04125 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 12:09:58 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 10:43:44 -0700 Received: from 161.184.25.210 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 17:43:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.25.210] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] swirling torque? Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 11:43:43 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Oct 2001 17:43:44.0397 (UTC) FILETIME=[9DB19BD0:01C14AA0] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Okay, I've gotten a lot of questions about my supposed "Swirling Torque", so I thought I'd clear a bit of it up. The real name is a swirling osis, not Torque, and I guess the name of the move is Reverse Twirl. I got the Job's wrong, it should read: Clip-Same Back Swirl-Back Spin (I think) - Op Clip. There are no dexterities outside of the cross-body position, so it is not a Torque anything. Reverse Twirl. I hope this clears the heads of anyone out there confused about my move. PS: Good luck to anyone out there who CAN do a Swirling Torque! It's a styling move that goes: Clip-Same Back/Front Swirl-Op In-Front Spin-Op clip Here's another thing! Most people say a Torque involves a Back spin! NO! It's a front spin! I've been so confused over that! The spin name is the part of your body facing the bag at the beginning of the spin, so in a torque, it's a front spin. There ya go. Thanks for everyone's input and help finding out what my move was! -Dylan Livingston From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 1 22:30:33 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04472 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:30:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ds9.bie.ispi.net (ds9.bie.ispi.net [206.131.202.23]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA12336 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 14:54:28 -0700 Received: from chrish.planetquake.com (chekov.bie.ispi.net [206.131.202.206]) by ds9.bie.ispi.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f91LsK202770 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 16:54:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20011001163629.00acf980@mail.planetquake.com> X-Sender: shatter@mail.planetquake.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 16:49:03 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Chris Holden Subject: [freestyle] All Sets Update 01-10-01 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wow! Here we go, over 40 sets listed here! I've broken up the lists to make things easier to read and I'll break them up more as I have the time to do so. Reply directly to me (not the list), if I missed anything, let me know! I still have a few to add that I know of, and more detail on certain sets that need more explaining. I need some info on the Broken set if anyone has it, I lost the email about it and can't find info on it now. sets Pixie: TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > Fairy: TOE > SAME OUT [DEX] > Nuclear: CLIP > SAME OUT > Miraging: SET > OP IN [DEX] > Stepping: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > Quantum : TOE > OP IN [DEX] > (op side component) Slapping: TOE > OP IN [DEX] > (same side component) Bubba: CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > Atomic (Toe set Illusion): TOE > OP OUT [DEX] > (op side component) Tapping (Atomic same side): TOE > OP OUT [DEX] (plant) > (same side component) Terraging (Double Pixie): TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > Barraging (High Stepping): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > Sailing (Pixie Illusion): TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > Blurry (Stepping Paradox): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > (op side component) Frantic (pixie-quantum): TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > OP IN [DEX] > Flailing (Symposium Reverse Miraging): SET > (no plant while) OP OUT [BOD] [DEX] > Fairy Atomic: TOE > SAME OUT [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > Shooting (Stepping Paradox Illusion): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > OP OUT [PDX][DEX] > Furious (Barraging Paradox Miraging): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > OP IN [DEX] > Infracting: opposite of a Refraction, done as a set. Spinning: Fairy Spinning: TOE > SAME OUT [DEX] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Pixie Inspinning: TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > (FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > Sonic (double spinning): CLIP > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Peeking (double spinning): SET > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Leaning (stepping inspinning): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (front) SPIN [BOD] > Go-Go (stepping backspinning): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (back) spin [bod] > Surging (spinning miraging): SET > (BACK/FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > OP IN [DEX] > Twinspinning (nuclear inspinning): CLIP > SAME OUT [DEX] > (FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > Neutron (Atomic spin): TOE > OP OUT [DEX] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (op side component) Whirl/swirl: Swirling: CLIP > SAME BACK/FRONT SWIRL [DEX] > Whirling: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (same side component) Blazing: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (op side component) Scattered (Reverse Whirling): CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > (same side component) Shattered (Reverse Whirling): CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > (op side component) Pogo (Symposium Whirling): CLIP > (no plant while) OP IN [DEX] > Blistering (Whirling Gyro): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > *Broken (clipper reverse whirl): CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > (SAME) *(clipper reverse whirl spinning): CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > UNS set: Finchy (Pinching Fairy set): PINCH > SAME OUT [DEX] > Pixie Pinching: PINCH > SAME IN [DEX] > Twisted (Dragon set Swirling Paradox): DRAGON > SAME FRONT SWIRL [DEX] > SAME IN/OUT [PDX][DEX] > Snapping (Dragon set Swirling): DRAGON > SAME FRONT SWIRL [DEX] > Arctic (frigidosis Pixie): FRIGIDOSIS > SAME IN [DEX] > Antisymposium: Rooting/Rooted: The setting foot is on the ground (antisymposium) Zoid: rooted toe clipper set Components of sets, but not neccesssarily sets: Ducking: SET > DUCK [BOD] > Diving: SET > DIVE [BOD] > Spinning: SET > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Inspinning: SET > (FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > Gyro: CLIP > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (same dex component) Whew! Too much information! If any of you are interested, we're now adding video to our web site! Check it out at the link below if you want, no complaints though cause this isn't announced/tested yet. Thanks! Chris Holden mailto:cholden@4drulers.com http://www.4drulers.com From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 1 23:04:44 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA04720 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 23:04:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from I (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA08593 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 23:03:00 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20011001163629.00acf980@mail.planetquake.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20011001163629.00acf980@mail.planetquake.com> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 23:02:58 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] All Sets Update 01-10-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 4:49 PM -0500 10/1/01, Chris Holden wrote: >Wow! Here we go, over 40 sets listed here! Chris, and everyone who contributed, this is great stuff! Now that it's at a stable point, I've put the list up on the freestyle website at http://www.footbag.org/freestyle -- just click on the link under the Resources section (which should be obvious). The direct link is http://www.footbag.org/freestyle/sets.html If anyone has updates, please funnel them through Chris. Whenever he sends out a new version on the freestyle discussion list, I'll update the website accordingly. Thanks. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 00:20:57 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA11046 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 00:20:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ken ([24.70.218.246]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20011002084508.RCEK1573.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ken> for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2001 01:45:08 -0700 Message-ID: <008701c14b1e$8b075460$f6da4618@gv.shawcable.net> From: "Allan Haggett" To: Subject: [freestyle] Freestyle Trials Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 01:45:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Freestyle Trials: The act of performing freestyle footbag moves onto and off of an obstacle or over an obstacle course. I have yet to actually create an obstacle course, but picknick tables, ledges and stairs rule. I seem to recall at some point on this list someone posting about something like this. I would appreciate a history lesson from anyone who might know more about whomever it was. I know I'm not %100 original on this, so anyone that's ever seen anyone try stuff like this please let me know. Jubal Hume came up with the name for it the other night after I was tryin' some stuff and I really think it makes sense. Some stuff I've hit off of stuff: Paradox symposium whirl, Superfly, Ripwalk, Symposium Reverse Swivel, Mobius...... etcetc Allan From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 12:19:49 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11791 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:19:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA23025 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:40:01 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GKP015012AS47@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 12:35:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GKP0145Y24OXS@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 12:31:36 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 12:17:23 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3BBA9AA2@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org As February gets closer and closer Red Shred Husted and I are working furiously to organize yet another awesome Colorado Shred Symposium. As we work on the details of the event I have begun focusing on how to make the judging work faster and more accurately. One of the problems with Shred Competition Judging, as far as I see it, is in the counting of tricks (which go toward the add ratio). The problem is that a quick playing style or small body type tends to allow some players to hit more tricks in a limited period of time. In the past a 45 second shred might yield somewhere between 40 and 50 tricks depending on if you are Ryan Mulroney or Big Add Chad. The 30 second Shred is pretty much the same give or take a few tricks. Certainly the add ratio is higher because you can bust out in 30 what you might have to save with 3 add's for another 15 seconds. So one of the things I've thought of (and I'd like some feedback) to make the judging more equal is a 30 trick shred contest. Basically you would start your shred and the first 30 trick attempts (that includes drops) would be taken as your total. Their would be rules that you have to keep going and can't stop for any period of time to catch your breath or you can't hit a trick, stop, catch the bag, and hit another trick. I think there would still be a time limit of 40 to 45 seconds in which your run would be completed, but only the first 30 trick attmepts would be taken into account. So if anyone, especially those having experience in competing or running shred events, would like to give me some feedback I'd very much appreciate it. Also any alternative ideas for making the judging as fair as possible is welcome. Please e-mail suggestions or comments privately so as not to bombard the list. Don't shred on me, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 12:19:47 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11785 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:19:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (qmail 37964 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 16:07:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dell) ([64.81.78.245]) (envelope-sender ) by mail12.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 4 Oct 2001 16:07:56 -0000 From: "Eric Wulff" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle Trials Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 09:11:50 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <008701c14b1e$8b075460$f6da4618@gv.shawcable.net> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is so not right I can't even begin to say why :-). That's a smile up there but really... I can't even watch things like this on tape. Makes me sick. Obviously some of y'll have never had a freestyle injury or you just don't care. A FRICKIN SUPERFLY!!? Get a blade a little caught on this in mid air and ankle... SNAP!... POW!. If you're into to taking risks for the sake of taking risks at least do it with something that'll give you a rush. Freestyle moves off a curb or a ledge is right up there with the stupidity of competitive golf :-). That's another smile... but really. Eric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 12:19:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11780 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:19:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f18.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.18]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id DAA03084 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 03:20:07 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 03:09:06 -0700 Received: from 63.224.251.200 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 10:09:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.224.251.200] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Just for fun (was: Freestyle Trials) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 10:09:02 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Oct 2001 10:09:06.0113 (UTC) FILETIME=[99CF0B10:01C14CBC] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Some stuff I've hit off of stuff: >Paradox symposium whirl, Superfly, Ripwalk, Symposium Reverse Swivel, >Mobius...... etcetc Hmmmm, I can hear my knees poping just thinking about it. On that same thought, and totally not orriginal to me I've been dinking with a concept I call interrupted, basically doing a kick in the middle of a move then dexing with the same leg before planting. My favorite is interrupted stepping whirl: left clipper, in out with your right leg, outside kick and directly into whirl with the right leg all without planting. Technically makes it 2 moves, but really cool looking. Cheers to all. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 13:22:49 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA11954 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:22:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from sam (24-205-36-184.glen-dyn.charterpipeline.com [24.205.36.184]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07289 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001801c14d11$72afef40$b824cd18@charterpipeline.com> From: "Sam Colclough" To: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle Trials Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:16:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org h e y l i s t e e s, OOPS Freestyle has also been messing around with freestyle trials. We were trying to think of a name too but nothing came up. It's all good though, I like that sound of trials. Here are some highlights: Windsor hit a double over down off of a 5 foot brick wall and attempted a triple over down... Bryan Fournier flailed off of a haystack, over an 'under construction' sign and then busted a mirage over a 4 foot puddle. Pinkus hits symposium eggbeaters up and down off of benches. I personally experiment with sets up to, and off of, a surface. I.E... Pixie set but my dexing leg lands on a bench and then I can push myself up to do the other components of the move either on the bench or jump off and do more on the way down. I can hit smear and such like that and had a brief encounter with a pixie barrage (pixie up barrage down) but it was way to scary and HELL NO do I want to SNAP POW my ankle. Yes, there IS much more danger but it looks so cool! Some other ideas that we have been testing the waters with are 4-5" thick ledges as found on brick dividers in dentist parking lots ... you know what I mean ... and its always great to move in between obstacles. Imagine the equivalent of an x-games street course but freestyle trials? hah and + we would have the gnarly injuries that the public wants to see. And the danger to make it extreme. Anyway, I think I might school this but I definitely am going to be careful. No pushing trials when I am tired and such. But yesss... it is fun stuff .. although very hard on your body even when you don't get injured. Shredding up and down stairs is fun too. We could even attach grind plates to our shoes and.... well... imagine pixie setting the bag, jumping up to a ledge and grinding, then hopping off and triple miraging the bag on the way down (cause that's the way samurai likes it). Not to mention getting technical with the grinds like switching feet.. different sets on the way up ... down... multiple moves while grinding... Yes of course it sounds near impossible but it would def attract attention. For now.. no grind plates for me eh? Just good old freestyle and all the 'trials' and tribulations that come along with it Sam Colclough big add wannabe both sided wannabe not necessarily in that order hey wow this is starting to look like a mountain slope slope slope slope slope slope From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 13:59:24 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12042 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:59:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA29937 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:39:15 -0700 Received: from sam (24-205-36-184.glen-dyn.charterpipeline.com [24.205.36.184]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12492 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001c01c14d14$963f4ca0$b824cd18@charterpipeline.com> From: "Sam Colclough" To: References: <3BBA9AA2@webmail.mscd.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:38:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Brad Kaplan was all like: >One of the problems with Shred Competition Judging, as far as I see >it, is in the counting of tricks (which go toward the add ratio). >The problem is that a quick playing style or small body type tends >to allow some players to hit more tricks in a limited period of >time. In the past a 45 second shred might yield somewhere between 40 >and 50 tricks depending on if you are Ryan Mulroney or Big Add Chad. >The 30 second Shred is pretty much the same give or take a few >tricks. Certainly the add ratio is higher because you can bust out >in 30 what you might have to save with 3 add's for another 15 >seconds. Oh my god Brad! I read a story once about a world where everyone was made equal by the state. If you were stronger or faster, they made you wear weights. If you were smarter, they would implant devices to dumb you down. If you sang beautifully, they would gnarl your vocal chords. etc. etc. etc. Its called a handicap. Everyone was equal and it was BORING. But that's not exactly my point. I still think what you propose below is horribly wrong. Ryan is FAST... way faster than most. So he wins a lot and you think something is wrong with the rules of the compition? NO MAN! Ryan was born with a particular body type which gives him a speed advantage over a lot of people. Just because I am not as fast as him doesn't mean I want a compitition where speed doesn't matter. I am inspired to train harder and harder even if it seems an unattainable goal to beat him (which I am not saying it is at all muwawa). People get better by knowing that they are not the best, not the strongest, or not the fastest. It IS called shred and, the last time I checked, the highest speed on my blender was shred. Why don't you rename your handicap event to 'pulse' or 'gently stir'. And then, >So one of the things I've thought of (and I'd like some feedback) to >make the judging more equal is a 30 trick shred contest. Basically >you would start your shred and the first 30 trick attempts (that >includes drops) would be taken as your total. Their would be rules >that you have to keep going and can't stop for any period of time to >catch your breath or you can't hit a trick, stop, catch the bag, and >hit another trick. I think there would still be a time limit of 40 >to 45 seconds in which your run would be completed, but only the >first 30 trick attmepts would be taken into account. This is like making speed the only factor in the 2 minute routine. This is ridiculous. Samurai (Sam Colclough BSW) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 14:34:27 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12107 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:34:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com (bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com [205.145.1.251]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA32673 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:27:20 -0700 Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <4CF23K5F>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:27:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA8802DC92BC@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Bob Riefer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:27:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Ryan is FAST... way faster than most. So he wins a lot and you think > something is wrong with the rules of the compition? NO MAN! If we're seeing who can bust the sickest combos, making speed a big factor doesn't make sense to me. Ripwalk>blur>atom smasher is still Ripwalk>blur>atom smasher whether it's done in 3 seconds or 4.5 seconds. Penalizing someone for having a slower style when we're judging combos (not speed) seems off base. If we're seeing who can bust the most amount of adds in a given time, we're talking about something entirely different. In this instance, speed does matter, and handicapping wouldn't make sense. Let the most adds and fastest legs win. I mentioned privately to Brad earlier that maybe having a 30 trick or 45 second limit -- whichever comes first. Seems like a happy and reasonable medium. I guess it kind of depends on what we're trying to judge. What do I know though? :-) Thanks! Bob Riefer From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 14:40:17 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12144 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:40:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA00718 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:37:01 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GKP01K01APP50@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GKP01IIOAPPOF@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:22:48 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: freestyle Message-id: <3BBAC283@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sam Colclough wrote: >I still think what you propose below is horribly wrong. Well Sam, it's not wrong, it's different. Shred competitions evolved as a way to allow hardcore shredders to rid themselves of the fluffy side of the 2 minute competition (which I personally love) and just Shred. It was given a time limit because it had to be given one. It just so happens that a biproduct of the time limit is the need to speed up your tricks in order to do better. In my opinion high speed is not necessarily better shred, it's just faster shred. The rules behind a Shred Contest are truly to judge ones ability to bust out the best tricks they can in a long run and obviously in a given amount of time. I think it's even more ridiculous to say that if I or Chad or Allan or Red or any other bumbling oaf wants to beat a Ryan or Ken or any other small and stealthy person that we have to make our tricks smaller and faster. Not only does it mean limiting the rules to a specific body type or playing style, but it ruins the grace and pleasure of the playing styles that exist naturally in each player. The idea that myself and others are working toward is to make the competition more fair for all who wish to compete. It's not to say that Ryan wouldn't still win every competition from now until he's 40, but it will be based on Freestyle Shred Ability as an overall not just speed. A suggestion I proposed at 40 seconds (and received good suggestions to make it 35) says that there will still be a time limit but you max out at 30 tricks. If you can't get 30 tricks in 35 seconds then that's too bad. So speed is still involved in the mix to some extent as well as allowing for shredders to keep style in as well. >This is like making speed the only factor in the 2 minute routine. This is >ridiculous. Actually it's nothing like that at all. It's more like making a Shred Contest open to change until we can get a solid set of rules with which to judge by. If everyone stuck to the original set of rules we'd still be using stone wheels, wearing bear skins, and killing anyone who looked different (oh wait we still do that). Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 15:44:21 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12240 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:44:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (cpmta 3132 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 15:40:55 -0700 Received: from dsl-64-194-176-97.telocity.com (HELO pinkus) (64.194.176.97) by smtp.directvinternet.com (209.228.33.217) with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 15:40:55 -0700 X-Sent: 4 Oct 2001 22:40:55 GMT Message-ID: <001601c14d25$984a0100$61b0c240@pinkus> Reply-To: "Chris Pinkus" From: "Chris Pinkus" To: References: <3BBA9AA2@webmail.mscd.edu> <001c01c14d14$963f4ca0$b824cd18@charterpipeline.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:40:39 -0700 Organization: OOPS! Freestyle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Brad Kaplan said: >The problem is that a quick playing style or small body type tends >to allow some players to hit more tricks in a limited period of >time. I know it does seem a bit unfair, but then again, alot of sports have their 'ideal' body types. Look at football. I would never be able to play in the NFL because I'm 5'7''. I do think footbag is more flexible in the ruling than football, so a compromise can be made. Maybe that first 30 tricks would be more fair. But it would still be unfair for the fast people. Alot of us can bust over 2 moves per second, and limiting 30 second shred to 30 moves would literally halve our scores. Remember, we can always practice linking our moves faster. Just something to think about before we make any drastic changes. Chris Pinkus OOPS! Freestyle From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 17:15:28 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12537 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:15:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Forest Schrodt Received: from ego.mind.net (ego.mind.net [206.99.66.9]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA07055 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:24:17 -0700 Received: from cl3036693a (cl3036693-a.mdfrd1.or.home.com [24.248.125.85]) by ego.mind.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA16590 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:24:16 -0700 Message-ID: <00b701c14d2d$ece9d8e0$557df818@mdfrd1.or.home.com> To: Subject: [freestyle] Earthdance Jam in Santa Rosa, Calif. Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:40:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Greetings, fellow stylers, Forest here to let you west coast junkies know about a cool happening in the bay area that I am going to be going to: Earth Dance 2001 Sacred Earth Festival Oct 12, 13, 14, at Ya-Ka-Ama Native American Reservation outside of Santa Rosa California. http://www.earthdance.org I would love to meet up with some kickers at this festival to either just shred or to put together a demo for people to see what we are doing with that silly little bag. Contact me if this interests you. ;) Forest 541-482-3188 PS: Shredding it up with Matt Baker and others at burningman was sweet. For those who have never been to Burningman, go, there is nothing else like it. I would like to set up a freestyle footbag camp for next summer's burningman, let me know if you are interested. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 17:17:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12547 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:17:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web13805.mail.yahoo.com (web13805.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.15]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id QAA09315 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:58:55 -0700 Message-ID: <20011004235851.20896.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [172.180.145.114] by web13805.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:58:51 PDT Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:58:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Windsor Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle Trials To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <008701c14b1e$8b075460$f6da4618@gv.shawcable.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Allan Haggett wrote: > Freestyle Trials: The act of performing freestyle > footbag moves onto and off > of an obstacle or over an obstacle course. This is one of the funnest things i have ever done...when i saw Alan Haggett doing it at worlds i thought it was the dopest thing ever. Now it does really seem dangerous, but once you get it it isn't that hard. you loose all focus of dexes and stalls and all you think about is where your going to plant your foot. Its a totally different game. I was doing some tricks up on a wall, osis to osis seems to be the easiest three adds without falling off. Well anyway when i was doing this cars were stopping in the middle of the road to see what i was doing. I mean, I've never seen that before even when i just freestyle. Trials is definitely a cool form of footbag that i think can be developed into a serious sport. Either your gonna see it and want to do it cause you like the risk factor or your gonna look at it thinking what a stupid thing to do why are these crazy fools risking damage to their bodies? So the choice is yours but don't dog anyone cause they like to danger hack. Not many people do it and a lot of people wont try it.....Especially when people actually start to get hurt. Keep bustin' it. Allan, you're the shit, dude. Eric Windsor From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 22:05:51 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12714 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:05:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail6.speakeasy.net (mail6.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.206]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA24592 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:36:40 -0700 Received: (qmail 80840 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 04:36:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dell) ([64.81.78.247]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 5 Oct 2001 04:36:39 -0000 From: "Eric Wulff" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:40:33 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA8802DC92BC@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have one of the fastest styles in footbag and I think there should be a move cap. It is clear that, as the shred rules stand, being fast is a major factor. Do we want speed to be a factor in a shred competition? Eric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 22:07:05 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12726 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:07:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA22983 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:09:19 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GKP02N01SVJTT@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 22:09:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GKP02N18SVJS2@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 22:09:19 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 21:55:06 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3BBAEB3A@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Chris Pinkus wrote: >Maybe that first 30 >tricks would be more fair. But it would still be unfair for the fast people. >Alot of us can bust over 2 moves per second, and limiting 30 second >shred to 30 moves would literally halve our scores. As I see it, it wouldn't be unfair at all. Everyone gets judged on a maximum of 30 tricks. 30 tricks is 30 tricks for you me and everyone else. It's an even playing field for all involved and it the best combination of 30 that wins. If you could hit 60 in the time it took me to hit 30 or 40 then it would be unfair because you would have the advantage of the clock. The idea I'm going for is a shred contest where the Actual Shred is judged, not the speed at which it is accomplished. I've been seeing a lot of arguments about what I'm proposing here, but I don't see anyone saying, "Hey why is a Big 3 limited to just 3. I can hit a Big 5 or 6 so by sheer volume I should win." Well think of my suggestion as a Big 30 that uses more judging than the "wow factor". I'm not trying to be a jerk, even though it looks that way. I'm just trying to come up with a fair judging system. So if the one that I propose, thanks to input from others on the list (first 30 in a 35 second round, counting drops as a 0 add contact)is no good then I'd like to get some feedback on any sort of alternative judging system, I'm not glued to mine. By the way, I love that so many people are getting into this, but it's probably a better idea to e-mail me personally so Steve doesn't get bombarded. Thanks, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 4 22:10:22 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12743 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:10:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12740 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:10:21 -0700 Received: from I (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA26136 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:10:46 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:10:46 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:40 PM -0700 10/4/01, Eric Wulff wrote: >Do we want speed to be a factor in a shred competition? Absolutely not! Nor should height be a factor. Nor ratio of leg muscles to bone density. I don't think it's fair that I'm older than Ryan, either. Let's not even talk about the weight factor. I think we should make weight and age divisions, and then restrict shred competition to only those people between my age and a few years older than me, and my weight and a few pounds heavier. And of course we should punish people for being *good* 'cause obviously they have an advantage. It's not fair that I'm not as good as Ryan so he keeps beating me. That's just *not* fair. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 17:05:36 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13829 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:05:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailbu.cc.uga.edu (malibu.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.103]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA05489 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 06:00:09 -0700 Received: from archa8.cc.uga.edu (arch8.cc.uga.edu) by mailbu.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0032198D@mailbu.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 9:00:04 -0400 Received: from integer.uga.edu (host-216-76-167-60.ahn.bellsouth.net [216.76.167.60]) by archa8.cc.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA31382 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:58:39 -0400 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20011005084342.009ec4d0@alpha.math.uga.edu> X-Sender: integer@imap.arches.uga.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 08:57:19 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Alexander Faber Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The Brat wrote: >I think we should make weight and age divisions, and then restrict shred >competition to only those people between my age and a few years older than >me, and my weight and a few pounds heavier. And of course we should punish >people for being *good* 'cause obviously they have an advantage. It's not >fair that I'm not as good as Ryan so he keeps beating me. That's just >*not* fair. > > Steve You're great Steve! You can whine about anything convincingly! As it is though, you forgot to mention that your points from the four-square court should carry over to your shred score. Back to Brad Kaplan's ideas, it really is clear that we need to be asking the question, "What are we trying to judge?" It seems there should be a few different competitions. The shred :30, as it stands, clearly judges one's ability to crank out tricks at a high rate while showing as great a diversity of moves as possible. If you want to see more big links, then you make something like a Big 20 competition or something to that effect. One of my favorite aspects to shred, and I hope I don't pick up any unpopular reviews for this, is style. I would like to see a shred competition in which the judging takes into account fluidity and grace in style (incidentally, this could unify a women's and men's shred competition). Of course, I haven't really presented anything that will exclude Ryan, seeing as how everyone seems so hell-bent on keeping him from winning. Maybe we should really just go with Steve's ideas. Alex Integer of P.S.T. Original Recipe From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 17:09:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13843 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:09:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.79]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA10968; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:01:45 -0700 Received: from tina ([65.230.252.42]) by cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3779); Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:01:07 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01c14db0$3c1cfc80$03c809c0@tina> Reply-To: "Tina Lewis" From: "Tina Lewis" To: References: <3BBA9AA2@webmail.mscd.edu> <001c01c14d14$963f4ca0$b824cd18@charterpipeline.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:13:03 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2001 15:01:08.0097 (UTC) FILETIME=[90235F10:01C14DAE] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The story about equalizing everyone is a Kurt Vonnegut short story found in the book Welcome to the Monkey House. Great story. Tina. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 17:09:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13845 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:09:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from 0017407414 (sdn-ar-008nynyorP187.dialsprint.net [158.252.35.227]) by robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with SMTP id f95Ea2903791 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 07:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002401c14daa$b59f9c80$e323fc9e@0017407414> Reply-To: "Josh Penney" From: "Josh Penney" To: References: <200110041950.MAA11869@list.footbag.org> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle Trials Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:32:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If any of you have never had the fortune to play with Allan Haggett, I must tell you now how amazing he is. He plays similarly to Lon Smith and GF Smoothie, aka Greg Nelson for two reasons: 1. He plays as hard as he wants, for as long as he wants. No lack of endurance there. 2. He drops the bag only when he's good and ready. All three of these sick sick freestylers hog the bag way too long, and this is NOT A BAD THING. Go! Kenny Schuyler came up with the idea of a street course at Funtastik one year. We all thought he was very creative and motivated for thinking of it, building and painting it in his garage, throwing it in his car and driving it out to the tournament, setting it up and demo'ing it for us all. Some of us not-so-secretly thought he was mad. If you saw this course, you would probably think the same. Has anyone seen the tape of Allan playing in Adrian's kitchen, long after he should have stopped? He was falling down all over the place. When we saw it laughed out of our chairs. This is further testament to the dedication of this mighty player; he is willing to be grossly injured and humiliated. Allan will be playing footbag long after his legs have fallen off, so kids, DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!! Listen to me, pros and tyros alike; when we started playing on the pavement, the idea was to get *away* from the uneven lumps on the grass, to lose the added friction of the underfoot weedage. Now you *want* to play on an obstacle course? The game is hard enough as it is without the added difficulty of obstacles. Why not play on steep, sandy hills, in the wind and rain, on marbles, underwater or if you get bored, have neighborhood kids throw rocks and small change at you while you play. Lock yourself in a small room with several dogs while giving eight-year-olds piggyback rides. Wear your shoes on the wrong feet while performing mathematical calculations out loud. Do shots. Sarcasm and insanity aside, be careful. Not being able to walk straight because you were doing something stupid is *the worst,* because we all know it could have been easily avoided. Please don't compile the danger a thousandfold by trying to be Allan, Jubal or Kenny. They are practiced professionals who know what they are doing. Relatively. JP From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 17:12:45 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14021 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:12:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f206.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.206]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA27629 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 14:06:52 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 14:06:52 -0700 Received: from 12.89.140.234 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 21:06:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.89.140.234] From: "Jonathan Schneider" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:06:52 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2001 21:06:52.0601 (UTC) FILETIME=[A814F290:01C14DE1] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I think its good to have a particular event where the fastest shred wins. Fast shred looks cool. Simple as that. Of course it is also good to have two-minute routines to music, where performance, creativity, and consistency are advantageous. And then a contest like "Big Three" affords us a great opportunity to have a contest to see who can do the best short combo of huge moves, without having to worry about drops, music, covering the composition cards, or keeping the ADD-ratio and "uniques" up (I don't really feel that a "Big Three" should be judged on the ADD count or on doing three unique tricks, considering that ADDs are imperfect at reflecting difficulty and the same trick back-to-back-to-back could conceivibly be more impressive than three different moves. I have not been to any event that ran a big-three yet, so I don't know how they have been judged). In short, speed for its own sake is just as valid and cool as is dancing in a choreographed routine. Win or lose I'll make a try at performing my best in any type of freestyle contest (except, perhaps, "trials"), and I'll alter how I play to suite the occasion. In none of these cases would I play the same as I would in an unjudged circle of my friends, anyway, and I would not stay away from a particular footbag festival because they were only running a shred contest, or only running freestyle routines, etc. I would, however, be more inclined to attend if I knew that all three kinds of freestyle contests would be held. Anyway, catch y'all on the flip side. Jonathan Schneider Outsider@footbag.org From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 17:12:47 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14030 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:12:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matthew Cross Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA32461 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:38:54 -0700 Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.7.) id z.89.d00511a (15908) for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:38:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web34.aolmail.aol.com (web34.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.10]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id MAILINID99-1005183852; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:38:52 -0400 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:38:52 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <89.d00511a.28ef907c@aol.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey all, I think steve puts it well, although I must say I'm torn on the issue... both sides make good points... but I'm not against people having physical advantages, that's just how it goes... I mean, what's next, are they going to make me wear ankle braces so i can't bend them so far? Sick 10 comps cover what you're seeking to change, Brad. Why not let sick 10 do sick 10's job, and leave 30 second shred be? Hope all's well. I don't mean to attack anyone, and I'm glad there's dialogue, and that people care about footbag issues. All it can mean is more progress :) KICK! Matthew Cross Rochester Footbag Association Rochester, NY From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 17:12:49 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14039 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:12:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.108]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA29425; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 23:46:31 -0700 Received: from acer ([24.67.167.169]) by femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20011005064626.PTBV10893.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@acer>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 23:46:26 -0700 Message-ID: <004301c14d69$7f7d2fa0$a9a74318@ok.shawcable.net> From: "Jeff Lopes" To: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 23:46:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Right On Steve. Dynasty's in sport are just dynasty's. Ryan is the best, and will be for a long time. We need to just get rivalry's going in this sport so we can all push each other more and more. Its true that some people have been playing longer than others, but look at guys like Yax and Flash? Penske? That Czeck kid? Leave the shred comp alone. No age/speed/time/ changes. The only thing I would like to see is two players go at once and BATTLE each other. Watch the 1998 BAP shred video on dallasfootbag.org. Ryan vs Ahren. Just nutz......... Jeff Lopes From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 17:12:50 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14044 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:12:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from bergman.umail.ucsb.edu (bergman.umail.ucsb.edu [128.111.125.61]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA29063 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 23:35:15 -0700 Received: from http by bergman.umail.ucsb.edu with local (Exim 3.16 #3) id 15pOZn-0006Ar-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 23:35:15 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Message-ID: <1002263715.3bbd54a32831f@secureweb.umail.ucsb.edu> Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 23:35:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Mirken MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, I got this great idea about how to even out the shred competition for all participants. I discussed it with Big Add and he described it as "the answer he had been searching for." So here it is: Add a separate scoring element, the unique/total trick ratio into the formula to tabulate scores. This would not penalize fast players, unless they just did the same crap over and over, nor would it hurt the average kickers; it might even help them. Most improtantly, the slower kickers who are barely able to churn out moves at half of ryan's speed, could increase their scores through the variety of moves presented in their shreds. Ex: (fast player) run 1 has 40 total tricks with 22 uniques (slow player) run 2 has 31 total tricks with 20 uniques Although forty tricks is a great number to churn out, if many of the tricks are blurs, butterflys, and ripwalks, that freestyler is just hittin his bread and butter moves. But if a freestyler is hitting spinning and ducking variations as well as shuffle moves, it would be much stronger. It is obvious that the second run would be, from a technical aspect, more advanced do to its variety. Anyway, its just something to think about. Tell me what you think about it guys. Jeremy "Senor Grommet" Mirken From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 18:03:58 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA14150 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:03:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail6.speakeasy.net (mail6.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.206]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA07042 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:57:29 -0700 Received: (qmail 69985 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 00:57:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dell) ([64.81.78.248]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Oct 2001 00:57:29 -0000 From: "Eric Wulff" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:01:19 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <1002263715.3bbd54a32831f@secureweb.umail.ucsb.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The basic idea of a shred contest from the very first time it ever was held was to try and judge a circle shred. If you were in a circle and someone tossed you the bag and you hit a combo. POW! This is it... right here. Here's the bag... go. Whatcha got? Now, there were immediately problems because at first the shred contest was simply an add count and players immediately just started doing the same trick for 45 seconds as fast as they could. "Wow, that was really cool how he did 52 butterflies in 45 seconds." "Yea, and did you see him do it on his weak side once or twice too! Wow!" That would never be done in a circle shred. So we came up with a formula that seems to represent a circle shred score pretty well. Now, however, we've realized that a major factor in the final score is how many tricks were done in the specified amount of time. This is a problem because we never intended to *measure* that... so to speak. It's a problem. It can be fixed. It is simple... Everyone gets 30 contacts, consecutively... drops count. We can easily come up with a time limit that clearly does not allow for rest. 35 or 40 seconds. Whatcha Got? Let's see it biff :-). Now, everyone is on even ground. Everyone gets 30 tricks. AND that guy Steve mentioned still wins. Everyone is now happy. Isn't that what we all really want anyway... For everyone to be happy. Anyone who descents from this opinion obviously does not want to share happiness. They want happiness all to themselves. So... who are ya? Come on out you none well wishers you... :-) Eric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 5 19:05:14 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA14204 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:05:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA09637 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:46:16 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GKR04G01GX3J2@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 19:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GKR04FB6GX3QM@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 19:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 19:32:01 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3BBB58F0@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What do ya'll think about this? 30 contacts or 35 seconds, whichever comes first, with some amount of Bonus points for a dropless run. I'm not sure how many Bonus points. It would have to be evaluated. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 12:35:55 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19118 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 12:35:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11605.mail.yahoo.com (web11605.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.57]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id TAA13920 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:44:18 -0700 Message-ID: <20011006024417.91585.qmail@web11605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.81.16.59] by web11605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 19:44:17 PDT Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:44:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellis Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org E n l i s t e d, Obviously certain individuals feel like this new system of shred contest is targeted at Ryan's disadvantage. The system was actually first tested at a tournament Ryan did not attend- SoCal 2001. I think all the participants were very pleased with the results. Sunil, Chad, and myself were the scorers/judges, and I am pretty sure we all felt that the scores reflected each player's performance more accurately than ever before. A system of 30 contacts in 35 seconds is legit. The test of a shred contest, IMO, is measured by variety, consistency, difficulty. Basically that means Uniques, Drops, and Add ratio. Really I feel execution should come into play somehow, but that's a whole other discussion. Sincerely, Ellis Piltz From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 12:35:54 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19113 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 12:35:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web13808.mail.yahoo.com (web13808.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.18]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id LAA21951 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 11:10:10 -0700 Message-ID: <20011006181010.38525.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.40.137.115] by web13808.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 11:10:10 PDT Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 11:10:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Windsor Subject: [freestyle] Victory over Violence Jam! LA sports arena To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yo list. For everyone in the Los Angeles area. On Sunday 10/7/01 There is going to be this Festival called Victory over Violence. Free Admission with music, dancing, games, and fun, etc,. People of all ages should attend. Its at the L.A. Sports Arena. The thing is goin on from 11AM - 5PM. We will probably start kicking around 12 noon or so. So if you want to go show up at the LA sports arena tommarow and just find us or something. Or get a hold of me 310-515-2962. Eric Windsor From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 12:40:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19171 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 12:40:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 20:53:47 -0700 Received: from 209.125.90.62 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 03:53:46 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.125.90.62] From: "Ryan Mulroney" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 20:53:46 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Oct 2001 03:53:47.0051 (UTC) FILETIME=[803A5FB0:01C14E1A] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Brad Kaplan wrote: >I've been seeing a lot of arguments about what I'm proposing here, but I >don't see anyone saying, "Hey why is a Big 3 limited to just 3. I can hit a >Big 5 or 6 so by sheer volume I should win." Well think of my suggestion >as a Big 30 that uses more judging than the "wow factor". No offense to the footbag shred population who competed in the "Big 3" this year, but a lot of professionals had a hard enough time hitting three tricks in a row....much less thirty. The UCSF jam had a big ten competition or something like that and people still went very conservative because a lot of people have a hard time hitting ten big tricks in a row when they are on a stage. I have a feeling that a big 30 competition would result in one of of two things, people going really easy to do thirty tricks without dropping all the damn time or people dropping all the damn time. But then again this is from the guy who has one several of these "biased" events so perhaps I shouldn't talk. Peace out. Ryan Mulroney From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 17:30:54 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20705 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 17:30:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f24.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.24]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA06672 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 16:54:09 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 16:54:08 -0700 Received: from 198.81.16.39 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 23:54:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [198.81.16.39] From: "Bryan Fournier" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 16:54:08 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Oct 2001 23:54:08.0952 (UTC) FILETIME=[30A05380:01C14EC2] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ellis Piltz wrote: >Really I feel execution should come into play somehow, >but that's a whole other discussion. I agree, EXECUTION is the missing link when scoring this thing... that would be Ryan's advantage' not speed, just precise execution.... not to say the dudes not wicked fast ... but ya you're right. so well, kick on... latex ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 18:09:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20820 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:09:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11604.mail.yahoo.com (web11604.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id RAA08355 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 17:38:27 -0700 Message-ID: <20011007003827.61863.qmail@web11604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.81.17.32] by web11604.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 17:38:27 PDT Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 17:38:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellis Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle Trials To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Josh Penney wrote: > Why not play on... marbles, > underwater, or if you get bored, have > neighborhood kids throw rocks and small change at > you while you play... Well, I've heard people fantasize about playing footbag on the moon, but really we can do that here on Earth UNDERWATER. One would need a footbag that's too big and too heavy for normal play, that is if a *footbag* would be best at all. It might be a good cross trainer, too. > Lock yourself in a small room with several dogs > while giving eight-year-olds piggyback rides. Yeah, I've tried this, and it wasn't very fun. It was when I taught ceramics in Colorado. We also had two giant deer who liked to hang out on the playground. They didn't want to play hack with me. my dumb thoughts, Ellis Piltz From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 18:10:53 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20832 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:10:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA09400 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:05:43 -0700 Received: from [4.3.96.243] (HELO localhost) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 642323 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:00:19 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 20:05:32 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org All this angst over how we pick winners and losers! There's as many ways to do that as there are footbag moves. Picking winners and losers is a social phenomenon; it has nothing to do with playing footbag except that the many of the creatures who play footbag are also ingrained with the custom of picking winners and losers. Is picking winners and losers really that important? My advice is to try all sorts of kooky 'scoring systems'! But... don't take them too seriously. What footbag means to each of us personally should never be overshadowed by the silly custom of having to say one kicker is 'better' than another. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 18:24:57 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20885 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:24:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA10377 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:23:48 -0700 Received: from [4.3.96.243] (HELO localhost) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 642330 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:18:24 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 20:23:40 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle@footbag.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [freestyle] Self serving silliness Message-ID: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org While I'm spewing my wacko notions out on the list, I might as well relate the epiphany I had a few weeks ago regarding the self-serving phenomenon. How can anyone be concerned about not 'tilting' or 'guilting' when they have absolutely no concern over not dropping the damn bag?!? Really! Shame on me for taking so many years to realize the shred culture just replaced one type of mulligan (tilts/guilts) with another one: keeping your rally going after a drop. It's silly. Besides being ridiculous, it annoys the hell out of me. So stop it, OK? 8-) -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 18:49:21 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21011 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:49:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f6.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.6]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA11121 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:40:15 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:40:14 -0700 Received: from 207.148.138.43 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 01:40:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.148.138.43] From: "Rob Fuller" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Self serving silliness Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 19:40:14 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Oct 2001 01:40:14.0857 (UTC) FILETIME=[03005790:01C14ED1] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >How can anyone be concerned about not 'tilting' or 'guilting' when they >have absolutely no concern over not dropping the damn bag?!? >Really! The concern is purely in the basis that people enjoy doing things with a level of difficulty. What is the challenge in keeping the bag off the ground by using legovers, pickups, etc... when you can do moves like Blurry PS Whirl, Mobius, Big Apple, etc... Why not go the extra distance and give yourself a challenge. I find it far more fun to do moves that keep me on my toes (Alert, not my frontside ;-)) than to do the same mundane thing over and over. >Shame on me for taking so many years to realize the shred culture just >replaced one type of mulligan (tilts/guilts) with another one: keeping your >rally going after a drop. It's silly. People don't *WANT* to drop, they are concerned about it, but would you be more concerned about keeping it going with kicks and the odd move here or ther, or insane freestyle? You can't have everything you want. Where would you put it all? Rob From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 22:53:58 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21657 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:53:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA12687 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 19:13:46 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GKT05B01CUTY9@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:13:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GKT05B5QCUTAJ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:13:41 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 19:59:26 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Self serving silliness To: freestyle Message-id: <3BBB89F2@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derrick Fogle Wrote: >>shred culture just >>replaced one type of mulligan (tilts/guilts) with another one: keeping your >>rally going after a drop. It's silly. And Rob Fuller Replied: > People don't *WANT* to drop, they are concerned about it, but would you be >more concerned about keeping it going with kicks and the odd move here or >ther, or insane freestyle? To which I reply: Derrick was talking about people who start a run, drop after a trick or two and then serve it back to themselves to try again instead of passing it on to the next person. i.e. HOGGING. Believe me I have been guilty of this more than once. It's one thing to do it if you're in a group of close friend kickers who mutually don't care... It's another thing to do it if you're in a circle in a land far from home or in a new crowd. Basically, don't worry you'll get the bag again when it's your turn. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 22:53:59 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21662 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:53:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11403.mail.yahoo.com (web11403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.233]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id UAA15174 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 20:02:17 -0700 Message-ID: <20011007030217.90756.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.191.139] by web11403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:02:17 PDT Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 20:02:17 -0700 (PDT) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <3BBAEB3A@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, Yeah, I was just thinking... Peter Irish can probably hit more unique moves in 45 seconds than I can. Why don't we make it a little more fair? How about, we limit the amount of unique moves to 30. Sound good? No? BUMMER! More moves doesn't always equal better score. I'm one of the slower shredders, so that forces me to push my unique moves and adds to make up for my lack of speed. Lon isn't fast either, but he still gets a fat score because he can hit tons of moves. If you want to win the shred contest, just school all your sets both sides, don't repeat any moves and it won't matter how fast you're not. "The Shred Contest" players are judged on... 1) Speed 2) Variety 3) Adds If you take any of these away, it's NOT THE SHRED CONTEST! Later, James Risden From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 22:55:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21679 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:55:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA16022 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 20:17:26 -0700 Received: from [4.3.96.243] (HELO localhost) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 642367 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 22:12:00 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:17:15 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Self serving silliness Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Saturday, October 6, 2001, at 08:40 PM, Rob Fuller wrote: > You can't have everything you want. Where would you put it all? I am the Tardus; Send me all your blurraging symposium whirling swirls! I can store them right next to the 20-minute freestyle rally I had in front of about 1,500 spectators this summer. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 6 22:55:32 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21689 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:55:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail6.speakeasy.net (mail6.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.206]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA21565 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:46:38 -0700 Received: (qmail 10505 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 05:46:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dell) ([64.81.78.245]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 7 Oct 2001 05:46:37 -0000 From: "Eric Wulff" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 22:50:26 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Execution is HUGE by default. A drop severely hurts your score in a shred contest. It's a complete waste of time and it's a zero add contact which significantly lowers your ratio. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 12:37:40 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24379 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 12:37:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f177.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.177]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA27514 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 01:30:59 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 01:30:54 -0700 Received: from 203.164.2.198 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 08:30:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [203.164.2.198] From: "Dan Ednie" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Move names Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 18:30:54 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Oct 2001 08:30:54.0881 (UTC) FILETIME=[6199A110:01C14F0A] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Footbags I've been schooling the pimping/gimping moves and I reckon some of the mainstream ones deserve names. Gimpy set should get a difficulty add. For that reason it is wrong to penalise people for using it in competition. here are some ideas for names for gimpy style moves Gimpy butterfly = Blimp Gimpy Blur = Plasma Pimpy butterfly = Pimp Pimpy mirage = Flegg pimpy switch = Ciniption City pimpy da da curve = Lumpa pimping ducking = Limping bye Dan Ednie From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 12:43:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24431 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 12:43:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from moutvdom01.kundenserver.de (moutvdom01.kundenserver.de [195.20.224.200]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA12069 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 11:45:37 -0700 Received: from [195.20.224.208] (helo=mrvdom01.schlund.de) by moutvdom01.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 15qIvV-0003Y7-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:45:25 +0200 Received: from a0a29.pppool.de ([213.6.10.41] helo=nudelsuppe) by mrvdom01.schlund.de with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 15qIvV-0003ec-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:45:25 +0200 Message-ID: <006a01c14f60$cde55ca0$290a06d5@nudelsuppe> From: "Matthias Lino Schmidt" To: Subject: [freestyle] Frankfurt Footbag Open Sick3 Video Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:49:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org People! Get this video: http://www.footbagfreestyle.de/VIDEOS/SHREDS/frankfurtopen2001/sick3_n.mpg !!! It is an exquisite selection from the Big3 contest held at the Frankfurt Footbag Open on September 29th. On this video, there is (afaik) the first documentation of a *clean* triple ATW!!! Yeah, and the guy who did it - Ales Zelinka - is not even *that* czech Wunderkind everyone is talking about.... My opinion on the shred contest issue: Speed is not a factor! It shouldn't be judged, so let's take this contact limit idea into consideration... Adios, Matthias....... [Moderator's Note: for those of you who heard me rave about Ales(h) Zelinka, I just want to say -- I told you so. -Steve G.] From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 13:22:31 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24626 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 13:22:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11402.mail.yahoo.com (web11402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.232]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id NAA16793 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 13:20:00 -0700 Message-ID: <20011007202000.92619.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.88.156] by web11402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 13:20:00 PDT Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 13:20:00 -0700 (PDT) From: James Risden Subject: [freestyle] high stepping To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What are some of the barraging moves you guys are hitting? I've been hitting fury and high stepping butterfly. I finally got jani walker on the flip too. Nemesis is soooo possible. I saw Mr. Jani hit barraging pdx illusion on video. That's insane! I'm really diggin' this set and I'd like to know what people are doing with it. So write me, or the list (i'm sure others would like to know). Later, James Risden From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 15:56:09 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25380 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 15:56:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web13602.mail.yahoo.com (web13602.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.113]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id PAA24717 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 15:52:47 -0700 Message-ID: <20011007225243.43048.qmail@web13602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.20.132.128] by web13602.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 15:52:43 PDT Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 15:52:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Shaun Marques Subject: [freestyle] Getting back into it.. To: Shred MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey stylers, I've searched through the archives of the freestyle list, and I still haven't found a *nice* (easy :-) ) way to get back into footbag. A couple of months back, I had sprained my ankle, and have taken it pretty easy for a bit. But sadly, coming back into the sport has been kind of a nightmare. Last time I recall I was picking up a few 4 and 5 add tricks, and now I pretty much can't even come close to quite a few of those any more. Is there any other methods to work oneself back into it? I mean, any good way to pick up bread'n'butter tricks aside from good ol' training/practice? Obviously reply directly to me, so as to not lag Steve. Thanks in advance. -Shaun From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 20:25:21 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26594 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:25:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA03439 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 19:11:13 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GKV00J017EKYQ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 20:11:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GKV00J6G7EKQQ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 20:11:08 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 19:56:51 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move names To: freestyle Message-id: <3BBBB23D@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dan Ednie wrote: >Gimpy set should get a difficulty add. For that reason it is wrong to >penalise people for using it in competition. I disagree on giving pimpy or gimpy a difficulty add. I personally don't think they are more difficult though they might be for some people. However, in competition I do think they should keep the add value they would normally have without the bump and should count towards Uniques as a single trick. What I see happening is that they won't keep their add value and in a competition will count as 2 separate moves with two separate add values and which I think will count as 2 separate Uniques, one with a 1 add and the other with a 3 add. For that reason it certainly wouldn't be a good series to put in a Shred run. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 20:31:23 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26640 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:31:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26637 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:31:22 -0700 Received: from I (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA07513 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:31:36 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3BBBB23D@webmail.mscd.edu> References: <3BBBB23D@webmail.mscd.edu> Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:31:32 -0700 To: freestyle From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move names Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 7:56 PM -0600 10/7/01, Brad Kaplan wrote: > I disagree on giving pimpy or gimpy a difficulty add. There's no agreeing or disagreeing about "giving" adds. The add system has been unchanged for many, many years. Everyone can point to places where the add system is insufficient or where something doesn't seem right in terms of its relative difficulty as determined by the existing system, but as to whether a given move "deserves" an add or "gets" an add, there's no point in going down this path. Instead, let's discuss ways we can redo the difficulty measurement system altogether. As I have said on this list quite a few times, it has more to do with plants, windows, and dexterities than with anything else. But don't argue over whether the existing add system is right. It's just pointless; everyone knows it's not. But until we have a better one, we have to use the one we have -- else we have nothing. (Which some would say isn't so bad. :-)) Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 21:32:22 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26833 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 21:32:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.65]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA09472 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 21:31:00 -0700 Received: from sam (24-205-36-184.glen-dyn.charterpipeline.com [24.205.36.184]) by robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f984Ux920898 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 21:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008401c14fb1$fc995f00$b824cd18@charterpipeline.com> From: "Sam Colclough" To: Subject: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 21:30:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Listessa: I was thinking. There should be a lot more posses. Everyone that wants to start a posse should do so. Just as there are many skateboard companies, there should be many posses. An argument against a lot of posses might go as follows: "If there were too many posses, I would hear all these new fangled/dumbfounded names, be overwhelmed and forget most of them. Half of the names wouldn't last the length of time in between tournaments." I think that this is a actually a good argument. It would give more sovereignty to the posses that had the highest ratios of members, and cause people to choose bassed upon which members were in what posse. This, in turn, would give the top players the chance to influence entire waves of new recruits. There are only two existing posses: Big Add Posee and Both Sides Posse. The Both Sided Posee is a relatively new one but already a host of intermediates are aspiring Both Sided Wannabes. Obviously there are many Big Add Wannabes. A person's determination of which posse they want to join, if any, could largely effect the direction of their style of play. This is another way that pros could influence "generations" of players. Another argument against it might be: "Why do we need posses when they sound so similar to the clubs on footbag.org?" Posses are different in clubs in that they would induct members. I think that is a big enough reason and should not be overlooked. Also, from what I gather, about half of the intermediates that I have talked to aspire to be in a posse. As the number of players in the sport increases, the number of people that want to be in a posse will increase as well. When the number of members in a posse becomes too large, the inherent priviledge in being a member is lost. By increasing the number of posses we would increase the coolness of being in a pro posse. I like it. Sam Colclough Both Sided Wannabe From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 23:10:34 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26920 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:10:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f21.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.21]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA11975 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:00:50 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:00:50 -0700 Received: from 128.101.109.137 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 06:00:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.101.109.137] From: "Gino Burman-Loffredo" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Backflip Rake? Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 01:00:49 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2001 06:00:50.0124 (UTC) FILETIME=[94C280C0:01C14FBE] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Shredders, I wrote in about two months ago on a backflip Rake. I was still wondering if anybody else has hit it. If you don't remember it is a backflip after a set, catching the bag on your toe while upside down in the flip. Please write me if anybody has hit this or if you no any other flip tricks that people have done. Shred on, Gino From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sun Oct 7 23:49:23 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26985 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:49:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26982 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:49:22 -0700 Received: from I (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA13419 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:49:35 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 23:49:33 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] List Policies Reminder Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Members of the freestyle e-mail list, This is a periodic reminder of the freestyle discussion list policies. Please take the time to read this message as it will save you, me, and my volunteers on footbag.org a lot of time. (1) No HTML mail ("rich text" in Hotmail, default in AOL 6.0): Please (PLEASE) don't use HTML mail (ever). Turn it off immediately, once and for all. HTML mail is stupid in general, but especially problematic for the footbag discussion lists. HTML was not designed to be used for e-mail, and many e-mail programs do not handle it correctly. More importantly, fully half of our members are on the digest version of the list, which puts all mail in-line into a huge message every day and mails it to them, and HTML mail simply doesn't work (it looks like garbage to non-computer geeks). I personally hate the digest and am thinking about killing it because of all the problems it causes. But since we still have so many people using it, please respect them and only post *plain text*. Otherwise, the digest will be completely illegible. If you post HTML, the moderator may ignore you, but usually will reply with a BOUNCE message to tell you to fix it. But you have to figure out how. The moderator can't spend the time to teach everyone how to use e-mail. You people on AOL 6.0, please call AOL and complain and/or ask them how to disable HTML for your outgoing mail. Hotmail users need to always make sure the "rich text format" checkbox on your "compose" screen is *UNCHECKED*. (Mac users on Hotmail don't have to worry. It does the right thing.) Never send mail to the list in "rich text". Plain text means e-mail with absolutely no mark-up -- no bold-facing, no underlining, no font changes, nothing. Just plain, simple, text. (2) Rejection: Expect your post to be rejected if you haven't read the policies here and are not adhering to them. If you are rejected (with a "BOUNCE" message), DO NOT argue with the moderator. Try to understand the issue, and feel free to offer a compromise, but do *NOT* argue. It serves no purpose but to create animosity. The moderator is simply trying to help keep the conversation on topic and within the expectations of the bulk of the list's membership, to keep this forum as efficient and informational as possible. This is not a free-for-all. When the moderator rejects a posting it is *not* personal, and you should not treat it that way nor should you make it that way by arguing with the moderator. We no longer guarantee to write e-mails explaining the reasons for rejecting posts. It just becomes too much of a burden to get into a discussion with every person. If your message is not suitable for the list, it simply won't show up. For newer members, we'll still give some feedback to help you understand the guidelines because they are not all clearly documented. For you regulars who keep getting bounced, and you know who you are, sorry but if your message doesn't show up and you see other messages showing up with a send date after yours, that means it was rejected. If you don't like this new policy or any of the policies we're going to begin enforcing, we urge you to go start your own list. (3) Thinking: Please don't reply willy-nilly to posts on the list. Think it out, decide whether or not you want to post the message to the entire list or just to a person you're talking to. And then, carefully consider whether your message will be rejected. It wastes the moderator's time and yours if you post a message that will be rejected. And you know who you are, those of you who have the same types of posts rejected over and over again, so please cool it. (4) Signatures and From lines: Use your real full name (first and last) in the From: line of your outgoing e-mail (you must configure this in your mail preferences). Use proper capitalization in your name. (E.g., if your name is John Smith, put John Smith in your name setting on your e-mail program; do *not* put "john smith".) ONLY users of AOL will be allowed to leave their names off the From: header because many AOL users can't set this up. But all AOL users *must* put their full name in the signature. Not just first name. Both names. No exceptions. With proper capitalization. ("Proper capitalization" does NOT mean ALL-CAPS. It means *proper* capitalization. Everyone should have learned this in second grade. If you are not old enough to have gone to second grade, you are not allowed to post to the list.) (5) Read up before posting: Do not post any messages to the list until you're *completely* caught up! That means, before you post a single message, read *all* the mail on the list that has arrived since you last read mail. Then, reply to the thread(s) you have replies for, and in some cases take the opportunity to reply to multiple messages on the *same thread* in the *same message*. Don't rapid-fire 6 messages on the same thread the same night, replying to everyone else's posts. That's just a pain for everyone. But be warned if you post a single reply to multiple different threads (see 7 below), you will be rejected. (6) Don't be lazy: a. Replying -- Don't include the entire message you're replying to in your post. Cut it down to just the bit you're actually referring to, to give folks context (in fact, this is requested, see 7 below). b. Posting -- Don't post questions that you can easily find the answer to yourself. Don't ask me or anyone else either, before you check the website. The best thing to do before you begin posting is to read *everything* at http://www.footbag.org/faq (F.A.Q. stands for "frequently-asked questions"), as well as on the freestyle section at http://www.footbag.org/freestyle -- and of course the footbag.org website is the repository for most of the information people frequently want relating to footbag. For example, don't post "what kind of shoe do people use?" or "what kind of footbag do people use?", and especially not "what kind of music do people listen to when they play?" The first two are easily answered by reading the information online; the third is just plain annoying. (7) Give context for follow-up messages: Similarly, don't reply without giving context! Always use the same subject line as the thing to which you're replying, and include a snippet of the specific point to which you're replying (and not the whole message, please). Use the *REPLY* function of your mail program, which will help you. Don't manually type Subject: lines because you'll probably get it wrong. For the threading feature of many people's mail readers to work properly, the subject lines have to be exactly right. Otherwise, if you randomly change the subject line every time you post, nobody can keep track of the conversation. Especially not a year from now when they're perusing the archives. (Has everyone seen the archives? It helps a lot to do that to get some idea why this matters. http://list.footbag.org/ ) (8) Stick to one thread at a time: Don't combine two threads into one. Keep them separate so people can follow the various conversations (see 7 above). Use your reply button/command to reply to messages on the list, so that the Subject: header is correctly reformatted to keep threads together as described above. (9) Keep your e-mail address up to date: Don't post to the list from an e-mail address in the From: line that is not subscribed to the list. If you change e-mail addresses, you must update your list membership (see http://list.footbag.org/). (10) Post to list addresses only when necessary: Don't write the list itself when you can write a more specific address. a. If you want to talk to someone and you can't remember their address, don't post to the list saying, "Hey, so-and-so, if you're out there, write me." The member directory at http://www.footbag.org/members/ is your best source of contact information, and/or the list archives which show the e-mail address of everyone posting (at http://list.footbag.org/). b. If you want to unsubscribe or have an administrative question regarding the list, for goodness' sake just ask the administrator (me) directly. If people don't know my e-mail address by now, ... Also, don't be afraid that I'll bite your head off. Just expect it, and it won't hurt so much. :-) c. If you are replying to a message, never send your mail without looking back over it, seeing if the freestyle list is cc'ed or not, and only cc it if you are really sure! Many messages can just go privately and don't need to go to the list. Consider using private e-mail to follow up public posts, as opposed to completely open conversations. (Visualize it this way: every time you post to the freestyle list, you're walking up to the podium in a large auditorium and seizing the microphone. Vs. just walking over to someone who has just spoken over the microphone and continuing a private conversation on the sidelines.) (11) No advertisements: Don't even think of blatantly advertising for products or services for your own personal gain, or for that of anyone else. It's fine to edify and inform people of products, rate them and discuss them, etc., but it becomes a problem if it turns into a formal endorsement or advertisement. I run this list, under the auspices of a non-profit corporation, and with resources that cost me over $120 a month at the current rate. I will not have the list turn into a marketplace. I will not be responsible for transactions that go bad as a result of a member of my website or this e-mail list entering into any financial interaction with any other player or member. -- These are not the only rules, but the most important ones. We reserve the right to refuse to post messages for any reason. Don't take this the wrong way, but if you're not happy with how we moderate this discussion group, feel free to create your own. Thanks. Steve and the all-volunteer staff of footbag.org From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 00:36:21 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA27096 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 00:36:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 00:19:03 -0700 Received: from 128.218.21.9 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 07:19:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.218.21.9] From: "Trevor Durden" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 00:19:03 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2001 07:19:03.0866 (UTC) FILETIME=[8272B1A0:01C14FC9] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Trevor here. I've been a lurker on the list for a while and I just felt the need to speak out. >From: "Sam Colclough" >in being a member is lost. By increasing the number of posses we would >increase the coolness of being in a pro posse. Who needs to be in a posse to affirm coolness? Nobody does. Being in a posse does not make you cool (don't make me name names here). Playing footbag does not make you cool. I think the greatness of a kicker has so much more with attitude than ability. I've met some incredibly talented kickers who are total jerks and some fellow newbies who are incredibly inspirational. None of them need to be in a posse for me to respect them. We all play a very very challenging sport. Every single one of you has earned a tremendous amount of respect and appreciation from me (and many others - at the very least our fellow kickers). In my opinion if you feel the need to have yourself (and your skills) validated by others just jump into any hack circle and notice how many props you will get for even a few toe stalls or consecutive kicks. This should help put the rest of your tricks into perspective for you. You don't need any current or "nouveau" posse to validate it for you. Better yet, play for yourself, not the people around you. This way you can validate yourself *every* time you play. Thanks for listening. I guess I meant thanks for reading. Trevor Durden From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 13:07:15 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28747 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:07:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ken ([24.70.218.250]) by femail46.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20011008102501.PMFG4529.femail46.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ken> for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 03:25:01 -0700 Message-ID: <000901c14fe3$83daa740$6401a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> From: "Allan Haggett" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle Trials Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 03:25:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org yo list...... Eric Wulff wrote: >>If you're into to taking risks for the sake of taking risks at least do it >>with something that'll give you a rush. Ever tried Superfly off a 3 foot ledge? Pretty phat rush for my metabolism; Leaning Mobius is riskier for me... >> Freestyle moves off a curb or a ledge is right up there with the stupidity >>of competitive golf :-). That's another smile... but really. *I'm* smilin' all the way off that picknick bench and *really*, compared to skateboarding, snowboading, basketball, football(american or european), shit, ANY damn sport you can think of, trying superfly off a park bench is hardly "dangerous". Eric, have you seen a skateboarding video recently? Trying a nollie 360 flip crooked grind down a 45 degree, 15 stair case while going 20mph is *dangerous*. If I wasn't old and still had the balls, I'd be one of those guys tryin' that shit. But I'm not 18 anymore, and don't want to hurt myself 'cause then I couldn't "juggle" a footbag. But I'm still very much a skater and I really groove on hopping off benches and obstacles trying freestyle moves on the way down. I've been doing it since I was 9. It's not anymore dangerous than riding your bike to the store. Y'all just think, oooh, what if I trip in the air and fall? Then maybe you should stick to the ground where you belong. It may not be for everyone.... if you can't attempt superfly on the ground, don't try it off your garbage can, but anyone that's ever been proficient at skateboarding or snowboarding has the balance and bail instincts to simply make it a fun sideline thing. Did I give the impression I was trying to submit this trials thing to the IFPA as a sanctioned event? Bottom line: A) If you like it, do it. Be Careful. B) Don't diss what you don't understand. :-0Peace y'all All School Freestyle PS Golf is phat! From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 13:12:19 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28759 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:12:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id FAA22843 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 05:45:07 -0700 Received: from sam (24-205-36-184.glen-dyn.charterpipeline.com [24.205.36.184]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00625; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 05:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001601c14ff6$f75b7600$b824cd18@charterpipeline.com> From: "Sam Colclough" To: freestyle@footbag.org References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 05:44:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "Trevor Durden" wrote: > Who needs to be in a posse to affirm coolness? Nobody does. Being in a > posse does not make you cool (don't make me name names here). Playing > footbag does not make you cool. Here is the fundamental difference in our thinking. I think that playing footbag does make me cool. Who knows which neurons fire off in my brain that don't in yours (or vice versa) to make me think this way but I do so... > I think the greatness of a kicker has so > much more with attitude than ability. I think that the greatness of a person has much more to do with attitude than ability, but not the greatness of a player. If player X won every single tournament but was an utter a-hole, a litterer, and a jewel theif, he would still win every single tournament. >I've met some incredibly talented > kickers who are total jerks and some fellow newbies who are incredibly > inspirational. None of them need to be in a posse for me to respect them. > We all play a very very challenging sport. Every single one of you has > earned a tremendous amount of respect and appreciation from me (and many > others - at the very least our fellow kickers). In my opinion if you feel > the need to have yourself (and your skills) validated by others just jump > into any hack circle and notice how many props you will get for even a few > toe stalls or consecutive kicks. This should help put the rest of your > tricks into perspective for you. You don't need any current or "nouveau" > posse to validate it for you. > Better yet, play for yourself, not the people around you. This way you can > validate yourself *every* time you play. I do see your point and I just think it breaks down to how competitive a person you are... Actually, let me refine that: I think it breaks down to whether you want to become a pro shredder or just play for fun. Hehe.... not to say that pro shredders don't have fun when they play. They have the most fun :c) Right guys? Yeah you know you do! As I said in my original post: "...from what I gather, about half of the intermediates that I have talked to aspire to be in a posse. As the number of players in the sport increases, the number of people that want to be in one will increase as well. When the number of members in a posse becomes too large, the inherent privilege in being a member is lost. By increasing the number of posses we would increase the coolness of being in a pro posse." You are apparently one of the people who doesn't want to be in one... which is great! Have fun (this sounds so sarcastic but its not, I swear!) But you can't stop us baby. You can't stop progress. Sam Colclough [Moderator's Note: This is the maximum level of argument allowed. Please bring it back a notch. The minute it gets personal, I pull the plug on this one. No blame attributed to anyone, just be aware. -Steve] From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 13:12:21 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28769 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:12:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f143.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.143]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id FAA22963 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 05:50:01 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 05:50:01 -0700 Received: from 203.164.2.198 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 12:50:01 GMT X-Originating-IP: [203.164.2.198] From: "Dan Ednie" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 22:50:01 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2001 12:50:01.0304 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE674580:01C14FF7] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I've talked to many people i know about footbag and a lot of them have pointed out that the game is a thing of beauty when the body movements flow and control are apparent. When the moves are too advanced, or quick, the technique and control are somewhat diminished. But an advanced and controlled style is truly impressive. Smooth actions to smooth music make good viewing. After all the greatest performance of all time was done to classical music. Players like Allan Hagget, James Risden and a few others have technique and difficulty whereas others only difficulty (often sacrificing style) The success of the support depends largely on how good it looks. Look at skate and motoX, the best have style, finesse and control. The public often rather see silky smooth osis, butterfly and clippers rather than scrappy three dex moves. Now getting down to the point, I think adds and should take a backseat to style and tecnique, and scoring should be the same as it is in olympic diving. Three judges with numbered cards who show them to the crowd following the performance. The judges keep drops and adds in mind but the expression and the style will ultimately decide scores. eg: two runs:- variety, slow, stylish, average difficulty, dropless - monotonous, fast, rough , high difficulty, drops The crowd clap in admiration for the first but laugh at the strange looking second style. The first should win. The non footbag community of the world can only appreciate what is appealing to the eye. Dan Ednie From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 13:12:22 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28774 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:12:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f242.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.242]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id HAA26883 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 07:30:00 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 07:30:00 -0700 Received: from 128.214.157.220 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 14:29:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.214.157.220] From: "Samuli Viitanen" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 14:29:59 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2001 14:30:00.0338 (UTC) FILETIME=[B61B3720:01C15005] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Everyone!! Jeff Lopes wrote a while ago: >The only thing I would like to see is two players >go at once and BATTLE each other. Watch the 1998 BAP shred video on >dallasfootbag.org. Ryan vs Ahren. Just nutz......... We had here in Finland a week ago the annual Finnish Masters and instead of a shred competition we had a competition just like this. We called it the 'ironman' and it went like this: We had 20 players and divided them into 4 pools of five players. The idea of the contest was who can shred the longest hitting guiltless stuff. First we had 4 preliminary rounds so that each pool (five players at a time) went to the stage and started shredding at the same time and the two best players would qualify from each pool to the quarter finals. So we had a total of eight players on the quarter finals. And from now on it would be one-on-one competition. We had four pairs of two players who went to the stage and the person that shred longer from each pair got to the next round. And like this we eliminated 4 of 8 players and had 4 players (two pairs) to the semi-finals. We put again these two pairs on the stage one pair at a time and the two winners from the pairs went to the grand final. And again from these two hardest shredders, the toughest won. Here's the formula we used in the quarter-finals, semi-finals and in the final. It's quite the same used for example in ice hockey or football cups so that the winner only survives to the next round:) Placed 1st in pool 1. vs. Placed 2nd in pool 4. ------------->>>>>Winners of these two pairs meet in Semi-finals Placed 1st in pool 2. vs. Placed 2nd in pool 3. Placed 2nd in pool 1. vs. Placed 1st in pool 4. ------------->>>>>Winners of these two pairs meet in Semi-finals Placed 2nd in pool 2. vs. Placed 1st in pool 3. And then we had two semi-final pairs from which two qualifyed to the final. I had only a couple of complaints from footbag players that while watching this competition they were not able to focus on what the players on stage were hitting. But as the name 'ironman' says, this competition was not about shredding it big and phat. No. The shred competition is a different competition. This was a competition of endurance and strength and who really is the toughest of 'em all!! The crowd and the participated players loved this contest so much that we had to do it twice in a row:) What do people think about this kind of a competition? I think this is more closer to the 'common' crowd who are not so familiar with different kind of freestyle moves and can't tell the differences between moves so that the intensity and visuality of the competition comes to greater meaning. Oh, and this competition was also really easy and fast to judge( ;) ) so the crowd didn't have to wait long for the results like in routine or in shred. -Samuli Viitanen, Team Finland From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 13:12:24 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28779 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:12:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f122.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.122]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA31128 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 09:08:46 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 09:08:41 -0700 Received: from 128.148.209.72 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 16:08:41 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.209.72] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "Ken Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move names Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 12:08:41 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2001 16:08:41.0120 (UTC) FILETIME=[7F2ADA00:01C15013] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, Dan Ednie proposed: >Gimpy Blur = Plasma > >Pimpy butterfly = Pimp Plasma is already a move. It's a toe blurriest. Sunil hit and named this maybe 2 years ago. Also, as the person who coined the term "pimpy," just wanted to say that I don't really like any of the names proposed, but that's my two cents. Ken From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 13:12:47 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28807 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:12:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f131.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.131]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA31881 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 09:22:00 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 09:22:00 -0700 Received: from 128.148.209.72 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 16:22:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.209.72] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "Ken Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] high stepping Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 12:22:00 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2001 16:22:00.0476 (UTC) FILETIME=[5B9EE5C0:01C15015] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey shredders, James asked: >What are some of the barraging moves you guys are hitting? I saw Mr. >Jani hit barraging pdx illusion on video. That's insane! That move is called "fission," and Tu was the first to hit it I think. If you were to rewind a fusion, you would get a barraging paradox mirage. But since fission was hit first, and the name was already taken, Sunil had to name barraging pdx mirage something else (Fission and fusion being oppposite processes in the world of nuclear physics). He came up with "fury" since it's like a combination of flurry and blur. I've seen or am positive the following barraging moves have been hit. Barraging pdx mirage- Fury Barraging same side butterfly Barraging opp side butterfly- Jani Walker Barraging pdx reverse mirage-fission Barraging pdx whirl- genesis Triage looks like it uses a barraging set without a plant, but I don't know if Sunil would consider it as a move involving a set, or just three really fast mirages. : D Any tips on this set for those of us who can't do it? Ken From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 13:12:49 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28813 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:12:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA09758 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 12:54:29 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GKW02901KMCD5@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 13:54:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GKW028K8KMCD4@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 13:54:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 13:39:54 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! To: freestyle Message-id: <3BBC05B4@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sam Colclough wrote: >There should be a lot more posses. Ya!!! But instead of basing them on tricks or styles, we should base them on Skin Color, Religion, or Sexual Orientation. This way we separate the group based on totally arbitrary means that can be more easily recognized. Actually I'll start... I'm officially starting the Presbyterian Baptist Jew Posse... PBJ for short. Or we can make the Teva's Versus the Laver's. I'm all for more segregation. (ummm... not) > Just as there are many skateboard companies, there should be >many posses. Skateboard companies and posses have nothing in common. A skateboard company is just that, a company. Their goal is to make money and sponsor players who use their stuff so they can make even more money. A posse, in regards to footbag, is a group of people who fit into a particular orientation of the sport. In BAP it's being an Extreme player based on the difficulty level of tricks and combos you do. Not to mention, from what I've heard from a BAP member or three their is also a matter of your social (as in being liked) status withn the group. >By increasing the number of posses we would >increase the coolness of being in a pro posse. Actually I think by increasing the number of posses we would DECREASE the coolness of being in a pro posse. To start if one wants to become a member of the Both Side Posse does it mean you have to be guiltless first? The way it reads one might infer you only have to be able to do tricks with both sides equally regardless of trick difficulty. If that's the case then you needn't be a "Pro" to be in the posse. So no increased coolness of being in a "pro" posse, just increased coolness of being in a posse. If being in a cool posse is the ultimate goal then I contend that all of us are already in a "Cool Posse"... The Freestyle Footbag Posse, which is part of the World Footbag Posse. I may be wrong about all this, but it seems that this proposal comes from a want or need by members of the whole group to stand out or become part of the already existing "Big Add Posse" or even the "First Family" (which I have been guilty of as well). What a Crock!!! Just play the damn game because it's fun and you love it. You're individual accomplishments will stand on their own and will reverberate throughout the whole group and be recognized anyway. Just play footbag! Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 13:19:00 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28834 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:19:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28831 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:18:59 -0700 Received: from I (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA11075 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:19:10 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:19:07 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:50 PM +1000 10/8/01, Dan Ednie wrote: >Now getting down to the point, I think adds and should take a >backseat to style and tecnique, and scoring should be the same as it >is in olympic diving. >Three judges with numbered cards who show them to the crowd >following the performance. I think everyone's confused (no offense intended). The whole concept of "shred" is "fast-and-furious play" at the highest *technical* level. The shred concept was initiated after a lot of players emerged who rejected the "old school" aesthetic promoted by the current judging system: combine execution, difficulty, variety, and style. The concept behind shred was (and is) to say "forget execution; forget style; focus on difficulty and variety". There are a lot of players (I won't name names) who can't style worth crap. But they can sure shred. This is *their* event. If you want to measure "overall" freestyle ability, you need look no further than the two or three systems we already have for this -- they work well, though arguably the measures of difficulty and variety are inadequate to discriminate the top rung of players today. But that's a different issue. But the concept of "shred" is *specifically* contrary to the concept of stylistic play and flawless execution (where execution, to be clear, is not just drops). So, I think it's fine to discuss ways to refine the "shred" competition format to best descriminate the players who can hit the hardest tricks with the most variety. But please let's not get confused between the goal of a "shred" competition and the goal of an "overall" freestyle competition. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 16:00:51 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29156 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:00:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (cpmta 1732 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 14:19:41 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO pinkus) (64.194.176.97) by smtp.directvinternet.com (209.228.33.219) with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 14:19:41 -0700 X-Sent: 8 Oct 2001 21:19:41 GMT Message-ID: <000401c1503e$e092dc40$61b0c240@pinkus> Reply-To: "Chris Pinkus" From: "Chris Pinkus" To: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 14:19:10 -0700 Organization: OOPS! Freestyle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dan Ednie wrote: > I've talked to many people i know about footbag and a lot of them have > pointed out that the game is a thing of beauty when the body movements flow > and control are apparent. That seems more like footbag dance. I'm an athlete, and I can't dance worth anything. I see footbag as more masculine than beautiful. But I'm not saying it should be a masculine sport. It should also have some sort of beauty to it. > When the moves are too advanced, or quick, the technique and control are > somewhat diminished. But an advanced and controlled style is truly > impressive. That's what everyone is already striving for. > The success of the support depends largely on how good it looks. Look at > skate and motoX, the best have style, finesse and control. > The public often rather see silky smooth osis, butterfly and clippers rather > than scrappy three dex moves. The public does not share one opinion. No one can say they would rather see one thing over another. Some would rather see speed or difficulty, but then again some would rather see technique. > Now getting down to the point, I think adds and should take a backseat to > style and tecnique, and scoring should be the same as it is in olympic > diving. > Three judges with numbered cards who show them to the crowd following the > performance. > > The judges keep drops and adds in mind but the expression and the style will > ultimately decide scores. That's what the routine competition is for. I like everything how it is. IMO, I would like to see all events the same 10 years from now, except with some bugfixes. This is a discussion about 30 second shred, SHRED. The word shred doesn't sound at all graceful or beautiful; It sounds fast and powerful. Chris Pinkus From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 16:00:53 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29161 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:00:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ezine2.iserver.net (ezine2.iserver.net [161.58.221.206]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA18339 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 15:44:15 -0700 Received: from taddmans.giomansilla.com (nic-169-c234-64.twmi.rr.com [24.169.234.64]) by ezine2.iserver.net (8.11.6) id f98MiDC64731; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:44:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20011008183518.00a1fec0@giomansilla.com> X-Sender: coolg@giomansilla.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 18:39:58 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Gio Mansilla Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! In-Reply-To: <008401c14fb1$fc995f00$b824cd18@charterpipeline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Posse's in my opinion are a cruddy idea. The last thing we need is for the rest of the world to perceive us as common gang stars. Because the only place at all I could see these posse's going is gangs. Next thing you know you can only shred with a blue footbag because you're in the footbag division of the cryps. Just my opinion, Gio Mansilla From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 16:00:51 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29152 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:00:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.106]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA13299 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:57:09 -0700 Received: from c1277828a ([65.0.19.184]) by femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20011008205708.XDGJ16780.femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1277828a> for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:57:08 -0700 Message-ID: <002501c1503c$165ae500$b8130041@sttls1.wa.home.com> From: "Jane Jones" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:59:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org There is a Guiltless Girls' Posse. Any girl that is consistently guiltless while hitting a decent length string is in. No formal induction...if you are a girl and you qualify, you're an assumed member. Hey, I like the idea of several posse's...then we can have freestyle battles like the break dancers. When Jan Zimmerman stayed with Alex and I, we went to a break dance battle where several different local teams showed off. We sort of did a freestyle battle between individual players and it really gathered a huge crowd. People were into it! They'd stop to watch so they could see if the next kicker would step in and out do the previous person. It was fun! See ya, Jane From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 16:00:54 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29166 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:00:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA18279 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 15:42:53 -0700 Received: from sam (24-205-36-184.glen-dyn.charterpipeline.com [24.205.36.184]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f98Mgq605528; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 15:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000f01c1504a$86196de0$b824cd18@charterpipeline.com> From: "Sam Colclough" To: "freestyle" References: <3BBC05B4@webmail.mscd.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 15:42:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "Brad Kaplan" kaplanb@mscd.edu wrote: > Ya!!! But instead of basing them on tricks or styles, we should base > them on Skin Color, Religion, or Sexual Orientation. This way we separate > the group based on totally arbitrary means that can be more easily > recognized. Actually I'll start... I'm officially starting the > Presbyterian Baptist Jew Posse... PBJ for short. > Or we can make the Teva's Versus the Laver's. I'm all for more > segregation. (ummm... not) Until you said this I hadn't even thought of posses as a means of segregation but as rewards for dedication. Thanks for keeping bias alive. > Skateboard companies and posses have nothing in common. That is a good point. My example was definitely flawed. I was thinking more along the lines of what posses could become one day. I am all for the evolution of this sport. I can't imagine footbag dyeing out because it is the perfect mixture of exercise, fun and companionship. Any successful person knows that to keep something alive, i.e. a company, lesson plan, restaurant, etc. they must be open to evolution and growth. It is for this reason that menus are always changing, professors pass out course evaluations and companies continually release new lines of products. As the number of stylers continues to grow, its structure will change and there is nothing that we can do about it. It would be nice to keep the community feel of it to some extent. I think that posses would be a good addition to clubs for that purpose. > Actually I think by increasing the number of posses we would DECREASE the > coolness of being in a pro posse. To start if one wants to become a member of > the Both Side Posse does it mean you have to be guiltless first? Yes and bust all your 5s both sides. There's probably style and many other things involved too. > The way it > reads one might infer you only have to be able to do tricks with both sides > equally regardless of trick difficulty. If that's the case then you needn't > be a "Pro" to be in the posse. So no increased coolness of being in a "pro" > posse, just increased coolness of being in a posse. There is a clichÈd saying: You can't judge a book by its cover. I think this can be extended to: You can't judge something by its title. In this case "Both Sided Posse" lets players know that it promotes 'no flip side'. Just because the name is only three words doesn't mean that there are not any other requirements. I am not even familiar with all of them since it isn't my posse. Would you have the title be Both Sided Guiltless Posse big moves both sides min playing requirement this and that created by Chad D. on the 24th of blah blah blah etc.? Would you? Hey Brad, if I can hit one 7 add move can I be in BAP? That's a big move. Or do I have to hit two 6s or maybe three 5s etc. Of course not everything is in the title. Your dexes were duh. > If being in a cool posse is the ultimate goal then I contend that all of > us are already in a "Cool Posse"... The Freestyle Footbag Posse, which is part > of the World Footbag Posse. I agree, we rock! > I may be wrong about all this, but it seems that this proposal comes from > a want or need by members of the whole group to stand out or become part of > the already existing "Big Add Posse" or even the "First Family" (which I have > been guilty of as well). This proposal is intended to further the popularity of the sport, footbag's heroes are an integral part of it. Lon and Chad are my heros! They inspire me in the same way that Superman inspired a whole generation of kids. They inspire me in the way that teenagers look up to their favorite pop star or actor/actress. The posses that stand out above the rest would help glorify those heroes. > What a Crock!!! Just play the damn game because it's fun and you love > it. You're individual accomplishments will stand on their own and will > reverberate throughout the whole group and be recognized anyway. > Just play footbag! Tell Ellis Piltz to just play footbag and stop making videos. Tell Johnathan Schneider to just play footbag and stop organizing tournaments. Tell Carol Wedemeyer to just play footbag and stop making them. Tell Steve Goldberg to just play footbag and stop making websites. Tell me to just play footbag and stop thinking about ways to push the sport. I do play footbag because its fun and I love it. If I could shred 24 hours a day I would, but I can't so in between sessions I am doing everything I can to strengthen it. There are two goals in an action sport: 1. Better your game 2. Better the game Sam Colclough From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 16:54:07 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29317 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:54:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f88.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.88]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA22579 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:53:06 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:53:06 -0700 Received: from 128.101.253.183 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 23:53:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.101.253.183] From: "Michael Beatty" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Uhh... SES Fall Jam? Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 18:53:05 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2001 23:53:06.0048 (UTC) FILETIME=[5FF57000:01C15054] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Basically all I want to say is..... W. T. F! Whoever it was that was supposed to have organized this "1st Annual SES Fall Jam" didn't do anything but give directions to some park and decide not to show up. "There are competitions in Freestyle, Consecutives, and Net, and just to have fun there is Ultimate Frisbee, and Circle Kicking. There will be different divisions for skill (novice, intermediate, and expert)." yeah right Whoever it was should really give an apology to all the freestylers in Minnesota for disgracing the game. I'm sure there are others who are pissed off too... Michael Beatty From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 18:29:04 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29639 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 18:29:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11406.mail.yahoo.com (web11406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.236]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id SAA27987 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 18:21:24 -0700 Message-ID: <20011009012120.77422.qmail@web11406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.88.185] by web11406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 18:21:20 PDT Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 18:21:20 -0700 (PDT) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <000401c1503e$e092dc40$61b0c240@pinkus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Dan Ednie wrote: > When the moves are too advanced, or quick, the > technique and control are somewhat diminished. --- Chris Pinkus wrote: > The public does not share one opinion. No one can > say they would rather see > one thing over another. Some would rather see speed > or difficulty, but then > again some would rather see technique. Sloppy ass shred is ugly and is no fun to watch. Smooth weak shred is just as bad. Who says you have to be one or the other? Ahren, Ryan, Pete, Chad, Rippin', and Wulff (the world's dopest shredders) all have beautiful styles and hit the most amazing moves and combos. Us newbies need to watch ourselves, mix it up. If you're all phat moves, you better watch your style (and slurs, eeewwww). If your all style, learn some big moves to make yourself even more fun to watch. ;-) Keep skoolin' Risden From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 18:29:04 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29638 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 18:29:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA27938 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 18:20:33 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GKW03001ZQ8VD@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 19:20:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GKW0300VZQ8SL@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 19:20:32 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 19:06:14 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! To: freestyle Message-id: <3BBC3830@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sam Colclough wrote: >Until you said this I hadn't even thought of posses as a means of >segregation but as rewards for dedication. Thanks for keeping bias alive. It may very well be that you hadn't thought of it, which is why I brought it up. As for keeping bias alive well that's in the very nature of having teams or posse's or competitive clubs. There's always someone who belongs and someone who doesn't, someone who's eligible and someone who isn't. There is always a my team is better than your team or the bloods are better than the crips. If you're telling me that by having posses the group isn't further divided into this mentality then so be it. I'm more than willing to sit back and watch the results. Which I might add aren't going to be enormous uprisings, rather it will be the little guy or new player who gets hurt. >As the number of stylers continues to grow, its structure will change and >there is nothing that we can do about it. It would be nice to keep the >community feel of it to some extent. I think that posses would be a good >addition to clubs for that purpose. You're absolutely right that it will change. It's possible changing right now. It's also an oxymoron to say that separating into smaller groups helps the larger community feeling. Unless you mean to say that posses help people within the given posse feel as though they belong to something. For that I can only say that forming clubs as is already done where anyone can be a member is a better way to go. For instance I just set up a club on my campus and everyone's allowed no matter what skill level they are or want to be. >Would you have the title be Both Sided Guiltless Posse big >moves both sides min playing requirement this and that created by Chad D. on >the 24th of blah blah blah etc.? Would you? No! I simply wouldn't have it at all. But I'm also not about to tell anyone not to do whatever you want. It's almost a free country and people can create whatever groups they want. I'm just here to try and point out the flaws. >Hey Brad, if I can hit one 7 add move can I be in BAP? That's a big move. Or >do I have to hit two 6s or maybe three 5s etc. Of course not everything is >in the title. I'd say yes!!! >Your dexes were duh. Not sure what that means... but okay! >This proposal is intended to further the popularity of the sport, footbag's >heroes are an integral part of it. Lon and Chad are my heros! The posses that stand out above the rest would help glorify >those heroes. Hey they're my heroes too but it has nothing to do with what posse they're in. Lon was my hero long before he got into BAP and Daryl and Rick were my heroes before I new what BAP was. Derric Scalf, Ken Somolinos and Adrienne Verhoef (sp?) are my heroes and not in BAP. These people Glorify themselves. >Tell Ellis Piltz to just play footbag and stop making videos. Tell Johnathan >Schneider to just play footbag and stop organizing tournaments. Tell Carol >Wedemeyer to just play footbag and stop making them. Tell Steve Goldberg to >just play footbag and stop making websites. Tell me to just play footbag and >stop thinking about ways to push the sport. I do play footbag because its >fun and I love it. If I could shred 24 hours a day I would, but I can't so >in between sessions I am doing everything I can to strengthen it. For you and everyone you mentioned I must refer to what I already wrote: >>You're individual accomplishments will stand on their own and will >> reverberate throughout the whole group and be recognized anyway. Those people went above and beyond to give back to the sport in a constructive way, none of which had to be done by being in a posse. Shred, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 18:39:35 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29687 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 18:39:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f140.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.140]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA29144 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 18:38:05 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 18:38:05 -0700 Received: from 216.27.144.66 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 01:38:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [216.27.144.66] From: "Stan Sagalovskiy" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 21:38:05 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Oct 2001 01:38:05.0553 (UTC) FILETIME=[0AC19E10:01C15063] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, I think this posse discussion is taking a weird direction. Some of my favorite stylers on the planet are not in a posse. Some of them don't want to be in a posse. Heck, some of them don't even talk about footbag when shredding. Will a Both Sided Posse concern itself more with hitting a move on both sides than with hitting a new move? I think this will "segregate" the freestyle community based on which aspects of freestyle footbag people enjoy more. To be honest, I think every serious freestyler concentrates on all aspects of the game. There's a time for skooling, there's a time for shredding, there's a time for trying moves flip side, there's a time for trying new moves, and there's a time for styling. If you want to promote "no flip side" - step into a circle and bust everything on both sides. If you want to promote flyers - step into a circle and do flyers.. or spins, or ducks and dives, or rewind combos.. Maybe it's different for different people, but I don't think people should be aiming to be in a posse. Aim to have fun and improve your game. When I hit my first blur, I didn't think, "oh yeah, I'm on my way to BAP" .. did anyone really think that? My two cents, Stan Sagalovskiy From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 19:10:58 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA29770 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:10:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11405.mail.yahoo.com (web11405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.235]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id TAA30446 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:03:53 -0700 Message-ID: <20011009020352.13766.qmail@web11405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.88.185] by web11405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 19:03:52 PDT Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:03:52 -0700 (PDT) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Stan Sagalovskiy wrote: > When I hit my first blur, I didn't think, "oh yeah, I'm on > my way to BAP" .. did anyone really think that? Honestly, I did. Setting goals is how you get good at things. I would encourage every newbie to be a BAP or BSP wannabe. It'll do wonderful things for your game. Later, James Risden From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 19:43:01 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA29846 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:43:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f221.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.221]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA31427 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:32:57 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:32:57 -0700 Received: from 24.158.87.13 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 02:32:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.158.87.13] From: "Bobby Glasser" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 02:32:56 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Oct 2001 02:32:57.0259 (UTC) FILETIME=[B4C417B0:01C1506A] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >When I >hit my first blur, I didn't think, "oh yeah, I'm on my way to BAP" .. did >anyone really think that? To be completely honest with you since i first saw any footbag videos, one of my first goals was to be in BAP. This isn't to say that that has been my whole drive or else i woulnd't have made it this far, but it has definetally been a motivator. Ever since i first started i have looked up to certain members of footbag. It just so happened that many of them were in a group and so that group become my ultimate goal. i know that some are going to say "you should do the sport because you love it" and i do, but haven't you ever heard of a little league kid saying that he wants to play in the pros. its the same thing. it just gives people like me something to strive for. i don't really know where i stand in the whole "more posses or not" but i just wanted to voice that i do agree in striving for something to show my progress. bob glasser From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 20:39:31 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA29927 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:39:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from balle (nas-cbv-2-31-203.dial.proxad.net [213.228.31.203]) by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id EBB42AB12F for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 04:38:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000e01c1506b$06ba9b20$cb1fe4d5@balle> From: "Maxime Boucoiran" To: References: <200110071950.MAA24494@list.footbag.org> Subject: [freestyle] Triple ATW Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 04:35:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I hope you all watched the frankfurt open sick 3 video with Ales' triple ATW! ( http://www.footbagfreestyle.de/VIDEOS/SHREDS/frankfurtopen2001/sick3_n.mpg ) It got me wondering how many people have hit a triple ATW, I remember Ken Somolinos (I think) saying it was the first triple dex ever hit back in 1984 (I'm not too sure about the year), so they've obviously been around for a while. Is it a hard yet pretty common trick? I'd have no idea how many footbaggers have hit this. 2? 10? 50+ people? And what is the prefered dexing direction: Out to In (like Ales) *seems* harder than IN to OUT... If anyone has any answers, i'd greatly apprecieate it. Thanks Max From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 8 20:59:07 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA29962 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:59:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web20108.mail.yahoo.com (web20108.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.45]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id UAA01501 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:43:49 -0700 Message-ID: <20011009034349.68556.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.73.250.22] by web20108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 20:43:49 PDT Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:43:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Reile Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Everybody, Wow, this topic really blew up, and I think both sides pose some very good arguments. On one hand, I feel that adding a whole bunch of new posses at once will lead to nothing but a bunch of very forgetable titles. If every apsect of freestyle gets it's own posse all at once, they will all be impulsive excuses for need to be in something important right now, rather than an accomplishment that you have been working towards for a long time. This reminds me of the mass move renaming rash of the not-to-distant past, and i don't think many of them stuck (A stepping butterfly will always be a stepping butterfly in mind, not a sidewalk). So I worry if eveyone rushes out to make their new posse it will end up taking value away from something that could be really fun. On the other hand though, the idea of new posses, if founded only when they are really called for, seems like a great idea. Since I first heard of BAP, i have wanted to get it. It really gives you something to work towards, and drives you to skool hard. I think other posses can lead to a more colorful set of goals. The one thing i disagree with though, is the idea that this will cause segragation in the footbag community. I have never felt like it is me against BAP, or that I am on some separate ground than them. I think of them more as a future (if my back ever heals :-/) than as competition. So in short, I think posses are a cool idea as long as they are created in moderation, and not made just because it is the thing to do at the time. I hope I made some sense, peace outside, Eric Reile CIC PS - What is with all the aggression on the list lately? These last couple days on the list seem to be causing more segragation than a new posses ever could. Just an observation. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 9 10:01:50 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA30823 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:01:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.84]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA00516 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:14:39 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([65.10.4.236]) by femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011009031439.OMP2835.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:14:39 -0700 Message-ID: <3BC2682E.3782207C@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 21:59:58 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011008183518.00a1fec0@giomansilla.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org About all of this posse talk... Posses promote a certain style of play. Let's see... We've got BAP to promote busting phat. Big Add. Bam. Then we've got the Both Sides (though I never heard of it until an earlier post in this thread). I'm guessing that they promote hitting all the big moves on both sides. So. How many things are there to promote in this sport? Big moves? Ridding oneself of a weakside? These are both worthy goals. All shredders should aspire to reaching these goals. Any othere posses that come about to promote the same goals are really kind of silly. If you want to be in a posse where only you and your friends are in it, call it a club and list it on footbag.org. Granted, I don't see all, but the only other posse possibility that I can see at this time is an Unusual Posse - go Schneider. Promote those dragons and soles and stuff. Other than that, there is always the no-add posse (otherwise known as the footbag.com cult). Boo-yeah. Posses are good... just why have a small add posse or a one side posse? That's just plain silly. -Derric From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 9 10:01:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA30828 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:01:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web20702.mail.yahoo.com (web20702.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.175]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id BAA08531 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 01:13:34 -0700 Message-ID: <20011009081330.67069.qmail@web20702.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.144.74] by web20702.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 01:13:30 PDT Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 01:13:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Lon Smith Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <006a01c14f60$cde55ca0$290a06d5@nudelsuppe> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hello playa's Matthius is right. Speed and Sheer number of tricks only makes it impossible for big add chad to win a shred contest. It doesn't actually push the envelope. Also, I think the shred is fun for all but unfair for taller folks. My two cents. If One short man and one tall man hit the exact same run with equal grace and speed the shorter of the two will have extra time at the end to bust an extra few adds and or uniques. That is not fair. Therefore the shred 45 should be all about difficulty. Hit your hardest moves without dropping. Your 35 best moves go towards your final score. Final score is best 35 and also your drops. score = (add ratio) x (uniques) + (total adds) = score Nurtsi Out From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 9 11:17:23 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA31106 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 11:17:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA28546 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 11:14:31 -0700 Received: from [207.160.174.20] (HELO localhost) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 644304 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 13:09:12 -0500 Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 13:14:39 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) In-Reply-To: <3BC2682E.3782207C@dallasfootbag.org> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Monday, October 8, 2001, at 09:59 PM, Derric Scalf wrote: > play. Let's see... We've got BAP to promote busting phat. Big Add. > Bam. Then we've got the Both Sides (though I never heard of it until an > earlier post in this thread). I'm guessing that they promote hitting History is *SO* doomed to repeat itself. It's been several years ago now that Ida and I proclaimed ourselves the founding members of some posse like the "Dance Integration Posse" (DIP) to poke fun at the fervor over BAP. There have actually already been numerous other posse formations in the past too, including: Big Mouth Posse (BMP) Josh Penney, founder Big Fowl Posse (BFP) Derrick "Chickenman" Fogle, founder You can check the old, old freestyle archives (1997) for a thread named "my new elitist club" if you want a few chuckles. -Derrick "...and we all ate happily ever after." - Miles Sage Fogle From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 9 11:27:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA31138 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 11:27:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dnvrpop2.dnvr.uswest.net (dnvrpop2.dnvr.uswest.net [206.196.128.4]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id LAA29042 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 11:25:56 -0700 Received: (qmail 20426 invoked by uid 0); 9 Oct 2001 18:25:54 -0000 Received: from dslpppf153.dnvr.uswest.net (HELO mindspring.com) (63.225.101.153) by dnvrpop2.dnvr.uswest.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 18:25:54 -0000 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 14:29:16 -0400 Message-ID: <3BC341FC.F1D025B1@mindspring.com> From: "Ernest Crvich" To: freestyle@footbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011008183518.00a1fec0@giomansilla.com> <3BC2682E.3782207C@dallasfootbag.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derric Scalf wrote: > About all of this posse talk... Posses promote a certain style of > play. Let's see... We've got BAP to promote busting phat. Big Add. > Bam. Then we've got the Both Sides (though I never heard of it until an How dare all of you hoodlums forget the Big Mouth Posse! For shame. Horns up for JP and his band of ne'er-say-wells! For those who know not of which I speak, tell it to the hand! Er...foot. Doesn't BAP promote both-side skills? Is BSP intended for those who aspire to BAP but aren't at that level yet? Will there be free cake and ice cream provided? Will I be able to put "Member of BSP" on my resumÈ? What about people with one leg, aren't they implicitly prejudiced by the BSP? So many questions! Dear me, I need to have a lie down...I feel faint. Standish, prepare the gelatin-tub, posthaste! -- Ernest M. Crvich Boulder, CO Have footbag, will shred From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 9 20:47:34 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA31828 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 20:47:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f46.hotmail.com [216.32.181.46]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA07959 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 15:20:21 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 15:20:21 -0700 Received: from 24.202.254.10 by lw2fd.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 22:20:21 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.202.254.10] Reply-To: TheMouse@footbag.org From: "Mickey Mayer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Signed Lavers Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 18:20:21 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Oct 2001 22:20:21.0288 (UTC) FILETIME=[95843280:01C15110] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi stylers, While staring at my lavers during a boring lecture at school the other day, I wondered if a certain idea I had thought of had been done before. What if... A pair of Lavers were bought and all the members of the BAP signed them and gave them to whomever in a sort of contest. I guess it kind of resembles what Jay Leno is doing by having all those Hollywood stars sign that Harley-Davidson motorcycle that he's auctioning off on EBay and donating the proceedings to NY families of the September 11th tragedy. Anyway, I realize the certain complications that would arise if this were done like the problem of how would EVERYONE sign it. Different members live in different countries and so on. I don't know, I'm merely just ranting. I don't know what is in the Footbag Hall of Fame or what it looks like but I do think the idea is a cool one. Mickey Mayer From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 9 20:47:51 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA31833 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 20:47:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f108.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.108]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA11371 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 16:16:24 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 16:16:23 -0700 Received: from 128.148.209.72 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 23:16:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.209.72] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "Ken Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:16:23 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Oct 2001 23:16:23.0826 (UTC) FILETIME=[69BEC720:01C15118] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey shredders, Ernest Crvich wrote: >What about people with one leg, aren't they implicitly >prejudiced by the BSP? Does anybody have any info on that Jakob guy who appears on Sultans of Shred? He was incredible. Did anybody ever play regularly with him? When was the last time he was at a tournament? Does anybody have any footage of him playing? Any info would be appreciated. CF From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 9 20:53:40 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA31860 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 20:53:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31857 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 20:53:39 -0700 Received: from I (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA27162 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 20:53:46 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 20:53:46 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 7:16 PM -0400 10/9/01, Ken Somolinos wrote: >Does anybody have any info on that Jakob guy who appears on Sultans >of Shred? He was incredible. Did anybody ever play regularly with >him? When was the last time he was at a tournament? Does anybody >have any footage of him playing? Any info would be appreciated. His name is Jacob Harkuna. He used to live in or around Santa Cruz but I don't think he still does. He was also a pretty good net player. It was fun playing against him. He would modify his crutches to have shoe soles on them and he would spike with his one leg. It was rad. He also did a tremendous amount of rock climbing. I haven't seen him in a few years. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 9 21:39:48 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA31913 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 21:39:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web9808.mail.yahoo.com (web9808.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.34]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id VAA28223 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 21:27:47 -0700 Message-ID: <20011010042746.29837.qmail@web9808.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.73.170.2] by web9808.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 21:27:46 PDT Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 21:27:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Munger Subject: [freestyle] Shred Symposium To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Do we have dates and such for the Colorado Shred Symposium yet?? I am trying to make a few plans to attend. Call it a bit early but hell..take advantage of these airline prices while the getting is good, if you follow. Hu-Mungis From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 10 10:36:01 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA32555 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:36:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32552 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:36:00 -0700 Received: from I (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA23135 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:36:06 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:36:07 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Wanted: Worlds2001 freestyle photos Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, folks. I just realized I have woefully few (read: no) photos of freestyle at the 2001 Worlds in San Francisco. I certainly can take screen captures of the video people have sent me (thanks, people, especially Dan Klokow), but that's nowhere near as good as a nice photo. I took a few myself and can use them but they were mostly before and after -- just showing people practicing and showing the venue itself. Any actual shots of competitors performing would be greatly appreciated. As usual, if you have anything to offer, please e-mail me directly and do not cc the list. Of course you will be credited for any photos I use, and if ever your photo is requested in high resolution by a media outlet (which happens somewhat regularly) I will broker that for you (and if there's money to be made, you'll make the money, not me). But money is rarely offered for photos in my experience. Just FYI. :-) Thanks very much for any help here. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 10 18:02:54 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00576 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:02:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web20701.mail.yahoo.com (web20701.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.174]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id BAA00463 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:31:07 -0700 Message-ID: <20011010083107.97423.qmail@web20701.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.144.74] by web20701.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:31:07 PDT Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:31:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Lon Smith Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dan Ednie brings up a very good point. If we are going to make it to the olympics then we must realize we are here to appeal to the public eye. I have a dream. A dream that all players style smoothly. In a world where all humans can see a shreds' beauty. A world where shredders are respected. A system where all players are judged equally. A four square court where net and freestyle may join hands.(in a vote to get Genzu out) But the facts are; other people don't like drops, hard moves just look hard, breaking a sweat playing hack is weird, pendulums are the best trick, and going smooth and creatively in a dance like style is the only way to make it to the olympics. As Follows: > eg: two runs:- variety, slow, stylish, average difficulty, dropless > - monotonous, fast, rough , high difficulty, drops > The crowd clap in admiration for the first but laugh > at the strange looking second style. The first should win. > > The non footbag community of the world can only appreciate what is appealing > to the eye. We all must seriously consider being better at showing off. I hate to say it, but that's all that matters at some times. For example: STREET PERFORMING If you do it-- Do it right. Liquid Lawn out From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 10 18:02:52 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00571 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:02:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11702.mail.yahoo.com (web11702.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.68]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id AAA32084 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 00:55:45 -0700 Message-ID: <20011010075544.49003.qmail@web11702.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.10.181.160] by web11702.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 00:55:44 PDT Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 00:55:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Mikko Tapaninaho Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move names To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I've been schooling the pimping/gimping moves and I > reckon some of the mainstream ones deserve names. Hello! Finland calling! I have never written to this mailing list, but now I just had to. DO NOT start naming gimpy or pimpy moves, not even mainstream ones!!! There are already enough move names and you can hit almost every move doing a knee bump in beginning (of course doing pixie or stepping first). Example: pimpy whirl, gimpy paradon, pimpy ducking symposium whirl... the possibilities are endless, so let's just stop this naming crap, ok? Mikko "Barfly" Tapaninaho Freestyler@footbag.org PS. There can be only one posse, and that's BAP!!! From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 10 18:07:56 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00608 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:07:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web20709.mail.yahoo.com (web20709.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.182]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id CAA01271 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 02:23:39 -0700 Message-ID: <20011010092339.34396.qmail@web20709.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.144.74] by web20709.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 02:23:39 PDT Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 02:23:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Lon Smith Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <3BC2682E.3782207C@dallasfootbag.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I think the reason for people acquainting themselves in a small add posse is just to be anti big add posse because they think being respected extra for going guiltless is stupid. I speak mostly for myself. That's why I am part of the SAP. I'm sad that Allan Hagget has stopped shredding normal. He started just doing three's and up. So now I never get to see cool combo's off easy moves. Oh-well. Derric Scalf: >just why have a small add posse > or a one side posse? > That's just plain silly. So is not counting unique moves as uniques just because they aren't worth 3 adds or more. That is just plain stupid Lon Was Here P.S. What's an Illusion??? And please stop calling it that. Nobody knows what a stupid illusion is. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 10 18:07:58 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00613 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:07:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from 0017407414 (sdn-ar-001nynyorP290.dialsprint.net [168.191.122.28]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with SMTP id f9AENr318367 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 07:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003201c15196$d6daeae0$1c7abfa8@0017407414> Reply-To: "Josh Penney" From: "Josh Penney" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:21:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ernesto and Derrick; you are gentlemen, and scholars! And historians! And psychics! How did you know I was about to jump in? To be a product of the Big Mouth, one must speak constantly, errantly, voluminously, repetitively, and Bruce Lee. It has more to do with what we say, how much we say, who we say it to how often and how loud it is said in person. Anyfoo can flail fingers on a keyboard but it takes something special to do it publicly. No, I don't mean "acting like a clam". This is also far too simple. Like Jane Jones and the guiltless women posse, the BMP is never accepting applications, simply making assumptions. Ja, we know who we are. JP From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 10 18:08:01 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00630 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:08:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA25453 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 11:18:35 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GL00A0015IM04@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 12:18:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GL009Z475IMU9@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 12:18:22 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 12:04:02 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Symposium To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3BBD2403@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is just to let everyone know that Red and I are locking down the dates and site for the CSS3. I'll be making a formal announcement within the next few days. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 10 18:08:02 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00633 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:08:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11603.mail.yahoo.com (web11603.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.55]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id OAA01368 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:22:35 -0700 Message-ID: <20011010212235.54033.qmail@web11603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.81.17.179] by web11603.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:22:35 PDT Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:22:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellis Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Signed Lavers To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yo, "Mickey Mayer" wrote: > What if... > A pair of Lavers were bought and all the > members of the BAP signed them... Peter Irish had this idea at the CSS2 in Boulder. Every BAP member at the event signed some old Lavers and gave it to the 1st place Intermediate winner, Samuel Jobin of Montreal. Word, good idea. Ellis From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 10 18:10:25 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00672 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:10:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web20701.mail.yahoo.com (web20701.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.174]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id DAA02233 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 03:10:42 -0700 Message-ID: <20011010101042.12111.qmail@web20701.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.144.74] by web20701.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 03:10:42 PDT Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 03:10:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Lon Smith Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Competitions To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Circle shred started a long long time ago. The goals of hackysacking were as follows. And there are also tournaments to represent those goals being met. 1) Hitting incredible moves. ---Sick Three 2) Bustin Phat ---45 Second Shred 3) Going to the music and making it look cool ---2 minutes routine to music 4) Not Dropping ---Longest guiltless run wins. single elimination 5) Saving the hack and getting full hacks ---Four Square 6) Making sure the bags hits the ground soon?? (oh- wait who wants that) ---Net 7) Wishing it was soccer ---Golf Those are why we go to tournaments. Thank you for coming up with these styles of competition. Liquid Lawn Outty Here From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 10 18:11:31 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00686 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:11:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from 0017407414 (sdn-ar-006nynyorP218.dialsprint.net [168.191.121.234]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA05390 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 17:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002001c151eb$57ab67e0$ea79bfa8@0017407414> Reply-To: "Josh Penney" From: "Josh Penney" To: References: <200110101950.MAA32638@list.footbag.org> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Signed Lavers Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:23:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mickey, I did something like this at '97 worlds with my lavers. Cosmo asked Rippin to sign his program. Realizing I didn't have a program, I got as many people as I could find to sign my sneaks. I don't think I could remember them all, it might be easier to remember who didn't sign 'em- Lisa Monte put an awesome power symbol and Scott got it on the swirl-hits-the-ground spot. Instead of putting these badboys on a shelf, I played in them long past their due, until about half of the names had been absorbed into my feet and my footbags. I wonder what happened to those shoes; man, they fit like butter.... I ain't [got] no idea. Hmmmm. Allan did something similar in Vancouver with a t-shirt, right Allan? Still have it? JP From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 10 21:45:58 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA00824 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:45:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA25730 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:16:37 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GL001601X7P15@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:16:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GL00155EX7PRR@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:16:37 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:02:16 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Symposium To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3BBD7864@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Okay everyone, just so you have the dates. The Colorado Shred Symposium Take 3 is scheduled for February 23rd & 24th, 2002. More later. Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 11 10:31:38 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01488 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 10:31:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f266.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.18.141]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA05789 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 06:54:34 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 06:54:34 -0700 Received: from 207.148.139.134 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 13:54:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.148.139.134] From: "Rob Fuller" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] The Beast... Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 07:54:34 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Oct 2001 13:54:34.0353 (UTC) FILETIME=[4228E610:01C1525C] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello everyone. I was just wondering what variations of "The Beast" everyone has hit. We tried to just THINK of possibilities the other day and could only think of 4-5 six add moves. So, I guess I was just wondering what combinations are even possible (for now) :-). "It doesn't matter what temperature the room is; it's always room-temperature" Rob From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 11 10:36:17 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01501 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 10:36:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (qmail 418 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 07:58:53 -0000 Received: from ultra.sonic.net (208.201.224.22) by marine.sonic.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 07:58:53 -0000 Received: from impax (adsl-209-204-144-74.sonic.net [209.204.144.74]) by ultra.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id f9B7wrO10531 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 00:58:53 -0700 X-envelope-info: From: "Joseph Crain" To: Subject: [freestyle] Official Footbag 4 Square Rules Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 01:11:50 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <200110101950.MAA32638@list.footbag.org> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org [Moderator's Note: This topic should *really* be on the footbag@footbag.org discussion list. But since I know a lot of you are not on that list, I'm allowing it here. For future reference, please every freestyler join footbag@footbag.org so I can rely on this going forward. Freestylers should all be on footbag@footbag.org anyway since by definition they're interested in general discussion of footbag, which by the way is a MUCH lower volume list. Either way, this topic (four-square) is *not* about advanced freestyle and does not belong on this list, for the record. -Steve] Yo Listiners, Me and Shred On finished a new revision of the official footbag 4-square rules. You can find them here: http://www.sonic.net/~visionpc/4square/ For those of you that have already played some, here is a summary of the changes: 1) Golden Rule change: During a vote, you are not OUT if you leave your square...but you ARE OUT if you leave the actual 4-square court. This gets rid of people trying to get others out for trying to advance a square...but if you leave the court you obviously think your out... 2) Standard House Rule change: You do not need to make 2 contacts when you receive a pass...just 1. This gets rid of people trying to interfere with others trying to make their 2 contacts. This is only a house rule...so feel free to change it in your games... 3) I also added an important note regarding TOO LOW and SPIKE shots: The TOO LOW and SPIKE rules are only meant to be *guidelines* for what kinds of shots are 'gettable'. If a pass is too low, but clearly 'gettable' then don't hesitate to vote that the pass was good and that the receiving player should be out. These rules are left up to the players judgment and are purposely included in the 'house rules' section so that different 4-square games / regions will develop their own styles. If you have questions, comments, suggestions, etc,etc... please email them to me. So go out and form underground 4-square leagues, come up with off the wall rules, train hard for the next big tourney...most of all, PLEASEEE dont take this game too seriously...its meant to be fun! and honestly it was the best way for me to meet a lot of the great people that i met at Worlds 2001. Hope to see you all again soon! -joe From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Thu Oct 11 23:52:16 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA02309 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 23:52:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web20706.mail.yahoo.com (web20706.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.179]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id XAA21584 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 23:48:21 -0700 Message-ID: <20011012064816.79127.qmail@web20706.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.144.74] by web20706.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 23:48:16 PDT Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 23:48:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Lon Smith Subject: [freestyle] Recent Records To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I forgot the dalls footbag address so sorry! I just wanted to bost to make myself feel better. Cause I practice every jam day and nothing ever comes of it. I finally hit 4 vortexes. I hit 11 stepping clipper stalls. I hit 9 paradox reverse whirls. I hit 29 doubble dexterity moves triplessly(personal) Hey Daryl. Now we're tied!! Right? 29? What is Rake record anybody? Thank you Steve. Lon From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 15 23:16:23 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07558 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 23:16:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11402.mail.yahoo.com (web11402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.232]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id QAA25675 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:09:13 -0700 Message-ID: <20011012230913.18043.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.14.191.146] by web11402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:09:13 PDT Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:09:13 -0700 (PDT) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] Recent Records To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <20011012064816.79127.qmail@web20706.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Lon Smith wrote: > I just wanted to bost to make myself feel better. > Cause I practice every jam day and nothing ever > comes > of it. > > I finally hit 4 vortexes. > I hit 11 stepping clipper stalls. > I hit 9 paradox reverse whirls. > I hit 29 doubble dexterity moves > triplessly(personal) Nice! I know of a couple more recently broken records. Today I hit 29 stepping clippers, Zeke Ibardaloza has hit 5 toe set gyro mirages, and Dan Klokow hit well over 20 ducking clippers. Records are fun! Later, Risden http://www.dallasfootbag.org is the site. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 15 23:16:22 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07553 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 23:16:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web13802.mail.yahoo.com (web13802.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.12]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id KAA09496 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:46:46 -0700 Message-ID: <20011012174646.39630.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.40.137.115] by web13802.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:46:46 PDT Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:46:46 -0700 (PDT) From: ERiC WiNDSoR Subject: Re: [freestyle] Let's get some Posse! To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <000f01c1504a$86196de0$b824cd18@charterpipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi List This issue reminds me of a conversation held at The Hotel during Worlds in the Jaccuzzi room at like 4 in the morning. This is i think not only a good idea for intermediates, but pros alike. Once you get in B.A.P. it almost seems like the end of the road. I remember Mulroney sayin "there should be a Super BAP." I totally agree with him, because if this did exist it would inspire so many of us already in BAP to step it up and makes the whole shred scene that more insane. The way it is, ive seen players come and go. I mean there have been players who get in BAP and then drop off the face of the earth. Posses are cool. But what about these fools steppin in never to return? It should be hardcore to where you get kicked out if you aint representin. I mean i dont think we should be jumping people in and shit that would be pretty ruthless, but I do like the idea of a super BAP. The thing is, a player like me or some "intermediate BAP" player can't start it. Ryan or Ahren or one of the best needs to start the Super BAP, or whatever the hell you want to call it. Hey Lon what about Super S.A.P. LOL. I think the Both Sides Posse is a great idea, Chad one of the major members of BSP, had to break it down for me giving me the news that i aint in it. Man the feeling i had sucked, but it has majorly inspired me to work my flip side since ive come back from injury. Here is the major point i think though. If your gonna be a bad ass shredder, your gonna be a bad as shredder. If you need a posse to become dope, then (in general) you will only become as dope as the standards that posse sets. So create your own posse. A Posse in your mind of people going fearless all 5's all uniques. Try to become a part of that posse. When your schooling solo imagine during your breaks between kicks that your imagining the most insane freestyle in the world and now the bag is in your hands. Really folks, this shit is all mental, i mean i was out of shape and got in bap. I just believed that i could. Eric Windsor 4.S.P. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 15 23:17:39 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07582 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 23:17:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matthew Cross Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA23519 for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2001 21:22:27 -0700 Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id z.d8.d59db4e (4241) for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 00:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 00:22:22 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Styley To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 7 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dear Footbag Community, Lately, I've been trying to get some more style involved in my game. There's the obvious, of course (pimpy, gimpy, dragons, frigidosis, etc) but I've been trying to get more creative with stuff i haven't seen. I do this trick with a ball cap where I do a pixie set, and bend way way over, and catch the bag on the underside of the brim of the hat, flip it up, and drop into a mirage / butterfly... I think I'll try it to whirl tomorrow. I have it on video on the internet on my club's up and coming web site, which I'll send in to you guys soon when we have some better vids. So anyways, tonight I was trying a hooping style thing that I guess has been coined Teapotting, it's a one armed hand on the hip hoop (say that 10 times fast), and tonight I hit stepping op teapotting osis, basically a torque with a hip hoop in the middle. I'm sorry. I apologize ahead of time... I have a paradox question, and I know what always happens with paradox questions ;). Tonight, I hit a sideways pendelum (not xbod, in the other direction) to what would be a right side paradox whirl if it had been set from left clipper (because the bag ends up setting from the same side of the body). So, is that paradox? What else... Kick set whirl, both sides, kick set butterfly swirl good side, kick set torque, rooted pixie set, cross body toe set pixie, swirling dragon, butterfly swirling dragon, shoe tongue pixie moves... So what is everyone else doing for styley tricks these days? Who's pushing style? Is anything being done with twinspin right now? what about frantic? I'm a fiend for this stuff so I can know what to practice ;) Hope to year from you guys soon. Matthew Cross Rochester Footbag Association Rochester, NY P.S.: My 15 year old friend Brian Sfinas from Whitesboro, NY (hick town) who started freestyling this summer hit triple around the world a few days ago, and he's doing it with decent consistency. Keep your eyes out ;) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 15 23:16:27 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07563 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 23:16:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f204.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.204]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA07868 for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2001 15:32:49 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 13 Oct 2001 15:21:32 -0700 Received: from 24.158.87.13 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 13 Oct 2001 22:21:32 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.158.87.13] From: "Bob Glasser" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Fairy Atomic moves? Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 22:21:32 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2001 22:21:32.0593 (UTC) FILETIME=[69AB7A10:01C15435] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Has anyone hit anything from this set? I've been working with it but nothing so far. Actually, I have trouble getting them over thigh high, but nevertheless I'm trying and I was just wondering what has been done. Later, Bob Glasser From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Mon Oct 15 23:19:19 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07603 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 23:19:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web9801.mail.yahoo.com (web9801.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.211]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id TAA21027 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:11:33 -0700 Message-ID: <20011016021133.9641.qmail@web9801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.41.217.214] by web9801.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:11:33 PDT Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:11:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Munger Subject: [freestyle] Hu-Mungis Footbags To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hullo there.. I would like to try and get a concensus on the "best" size for a footbag. Compare them to what ever you like just so that I know what that may be. I realize that everyone shreds with "there own size" footbag but I am just looking for the most popular...... Any takers?? Hu I really like the size of the Revolution footbags.. From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 16 21:40:13 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA08933 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 21:40:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web11807.mail.yahoo.com (web11807.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.161]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id PAA08669 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:14:41 -0700 Message-ID: <20011016221440.52960.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.126.101.110] by web11807.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:14:40 PDT Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:14:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Erm Naarits Subject: [freestyle] a soap question To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, I've been trying to wash my juice for some time now with cold water and soap.I was wondering if anyone could suggest me any good washing methods(the water temperature,which kind of soap etc.)to make my bag a bit better. reply to me privately please thanks Erm TFC From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 16 21:40:13 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA08936 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 21:40:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA10682 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:55:44 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GLB08M01MCLFL@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 16:55:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GLB08IL1MCLF2@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 16:55:33 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 16:41:05 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] Anyone hit...? To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3BBFF1B3@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org These are just straight out of the old imagination for anyone who is bored and wants a challenge. Nuclear Eggbeater clip> same out> op out> op out> same toe Paradox Leggbeater Swirl clip> same out> op out> op back swirl> same clip Atomic Whirr toe> op out> op in> same in> op clip Double Twirl clip> same front swirl> same front swirl> backspin> op clip Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 17 00:18:36 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA09130 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 00:18:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA32651 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 23:40:29 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GLC09O017VD69@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 00:40:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GLC09NHO7VD64@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 00:40:25 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 00:25:55 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] Freestyle World To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3BC01103@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just wanted to say that this sport absolutely ROCKS. I consider myself pretty lucky to live in the U.S. and to have been privileged enough to take part in and bare witness to the growth of Freestyle Footbag. When I first found out about this list and the organization of freestyle several years ago I was pretty amazed by it. Until that point I, like many others, was a "hacky sacker". Also at that time, I was sure that "Hacky Sack" was solely an American, and to some extent Canadian, game. I think that Freestyle in it's present form was largely based in North America and for the most part got and still get's most of it's recognition here. However, over the years it's becoming increasingly obvious that Freestyle Footbag is taking the world by storm. I don't really remember there being many European people on the list 4 years ago, or there being many tournaments either. Now it seems like there is a European tournament every week. I think that's absolutely incredible. Footbag is getting major recognition by young people all over the world and it only seems to be growing. It's rather sad that only a handful of people from other nations are able to make it to Worlds. I can't wait for there to be a Worlds in Europe so that the WORLD can really take part in it. Just think, a Worlds set in Germany, Finland, Spain, or Italy. Imagine how many different nations would be represented. By the time it comes about the Americans will probably get spanked due to the explosion of skill by other worldwide players. I love this sport. Thank you all for being part of it. (; Brad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Sat Oct 20 08:58:41 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA14969 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:58:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14966 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:58:41 -0700 Received: from I (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA04992 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 01:55:27 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 01:55:22 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] List problems again Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Folks, be patient with me as the freestyle list has been idle for a couple of days. It will be back to normal soon. I had hardware problems with the list machine (Ryan M. actually helped fix it :-)) and haven't had time to recover everything just yet. No mail was lost; it will just take me a day or two to clean up and get it going again. Feel free to post, just don't expect to see it go immediately to the list. Anyone who's already posted, your message is in the queue and I'll get to it hopefully this weekend. Thanks. Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 26 02:33:42 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA15683 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:33:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from malibu.cc.uga.edu (malibu.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.103]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id FAA17020 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 05:39:21 -0700 Received: from archa7.cc.uga.edu (arch7.cc.uga.edu) by malibu.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <1.00390B95@malibu.cc.uga.edu>; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 8:39:17 -0400 Received: from integer.uga.edu (host-209-214-96-218.ahn.bellsouth.net [209.214.96.218]) by archa7.cc.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA129262 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:39:01 -0400 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20011016080301.00a17800@imap.arches.uga.edu> X-Sender: integer@imap.arches.uga.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:05:22 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Xander Faber Subject: [freestyle] Zulu Le Loup? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was looking at the record list and discovered a move which Rick Reese holds the record for, and yet I've never heard of it. What on earth is Zulu Le Loup? Propz to everyone for their recent records. I think I'm gonna go work on breaking GF Smoothie's osis record ("creamy"). Alex From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 26 02:33:43 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA15685 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:33:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f101.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.101]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA22467 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:23:12 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:23:08 -0700 Received: from 161.184.29.131 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:23:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.29.131] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Anyone hit...? Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:23:07 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2001 16:23:08.0309 (UTC) FILETIME=[2C2EE450:01C157F1] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Woah, those are some tough moves! I've been thinking of new stuff to try as well, but nothing that tough! For instance: Reverse Sidewalk=Clip-Op Out(DEX)-Plant-Same In(DEX)-Op Clip(XBD)(DEL) ATW Swirl=Toe-Same In/Out(DEX)-Op Back Swirl(DEX)-Op Toe(DEL) Atomic Dyno=Toe-Op Out(DEX)-Op Out(DEX)-Back spin(BOD)-Same Clip(XBD)(DEL) (I'd call it Dynomite. Try it Nuclear!) Stepping Same Dyno=Clip-Op In(DEX)-Plant-Same Out(DEX)-Back spin(BOD)-Same Clip(XBD)(DEL) (I'd call this Shotgun) I haven't hit any of these, but they are all possible (I hope). Try to hit this stuff! I think it would look cool! Dylan Livingston Brad Kaplan Wrote: > Nuclear Eggbeater > clip> same out> op out> op out> same toe > > Paradox Leggbeater Swirl > clip> same out> op out> op back swirl> same clip > > Atomic Whirr > toe> op out> op in> same in> op clip > > Double Twirl > clip> same front swirl> same front swirl> backspin> op clip From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 26 02:33:41 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA15675 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:33:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:40:02 -0700 Received: from 161.184.26.240 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:40:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.26.240] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Flying Flapper Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:40:02 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Oct 2001 17:40:02.0458 (UTC) FILETIME=[C00467A0:01C15732] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I've been hitting a lot of Flapper moves lately, and it's got me thinking. If Flying Clipper is Two adds, and Butterfly kick is Three adds, does that mean that Flying Flapper would be Three adds as well? A Whirling Flying Flapper isn't really all that tough for a Four, but it makes sense to me. The Job's (For the unknowledged) is Clip-Op In(DEX)-Jump(BOD)-Op Flapper(XBD)(UNS). I've hit this, but not clean. I've also been working on a little thing I call PHASING. Think of an Eclipse, where the bag LEAVES your foot before you land. Or a Symposium Legover, where the bag is delayed in midair, and released in midair. I haven't hit the Legover version yet, because I fall on my ass whenever I attempt it, but I get to the delay quite easily, and I think someone with a little more symposium skill than me might be able to hit this! I've hit the Eclipse version, and that wasn't too hard, but I can't Flail, so I won't be able to hit a PHASE legover for a while. I'm open to responses, good and bad, but I think it's about time there was a Symposium Legover. Here's the Job's Description: Toe-(No Plant While) Op Out-Same Toe-Land. I must stress that your first attempt at this move will end with a Wipeout, so don't try it on concrete, or off of a five foot wall, pleeez! I don't want to hear about vicious injuries because of me. But I do suggest practicing this move, or it's Pickup counterpart, cuz it looks cool (At least in my head). I haven't injured myself yet, and that's sure a feat! Anyway, I'm open to suggestions and hate mail (Not to the list), so feel free to respond! Dylan Livingston From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 26 02:33:41 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA15670 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:33:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (cpmta 13622 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 00:53:41 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO pinkus) (64.194.176.97) by smtp.directvinternet.com (209.228.33.214) with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 00:53:41 -0700 X-Sent: 17 Oct 2001 07:53:41 GMT Message-ID: <000601c156e0$d1f14e80$61b0c240@pinkus> Reply-To: "Chris Pinkus" From: "Chris Pinkus" To: References: <3BC01103@webmail.mscd.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle World Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 00:53:33 -0700 Organization: OOPS! Freestyle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Footbag is getting major recognition by young people all over the world > and it only seems to be growing. It's rather sad that only a handful of > people from other nations are able to make it to Worlds. I can't wait for > there to be a Worlds in Europe so that the WORLD can really take part in > it. Just think, a Worlds set in Germany, Finland, Spain, or Italy. Imagine > how many different nations would be represented. By the time it comes > about the Americans will probably get spanked due to the explosion > of skill by other worldwide players. I agree. It would be great to visit other continents and meet players from Europe. It would definitely ensure more European players to attend worlds. I gotta start saving up NOW if I plan on making it though. Where is world supposed to be at this upcoming year? And has worlds ever been someplace other than the US or Canada? > (; > Brad Is that your "flipside" smiley? Chris Pinkus From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 26 02:37:49 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA15726 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:37:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web9806.mail.yahoo.com (web9806.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.29]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id SAA21435 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:26:19 -0700 Message-ID: <20011019012619.8463.qmail@web9806.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.34.64.92] by web9806.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:26:19 PDT Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:26:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Munger To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Hu-Mungis Footbags MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I want to thank all who have given me some insite into the size of a footbag. Althought there was not a real consensus. Oh well. That IS asking alot I know.. Anyway I make no promises. Time will tell. Hu From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 26 02:37:50 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA15731 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:37:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ds9.bie.ispi.net (ds9.bie.ispi.net [206.131.202.23]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA03875 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 13:19:22 -0700 Received: from chrish.planetquake.com (chekov.bie.ispi.net [206.131.202.206]) by ds9.bie.ispi.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9JKJGC01327 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:19:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20011019150952.00b0ced0@mail.planetquake.com> X-Sender: shatter@mail.planetquake.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:13:45 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Chris Holden Subject: [freestyle] All Sets Update 19-10-01 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I haven't updated this in a while, I've had some finacial issues. If anyone needs a 2d/3d artist....wait wrong mailing list. ;) Anyway, here's the last update I made based on all the latest emails: sets Pixie: TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > Fairy: TOE > SAME OUT [DEX] > Nuclear: CLIP > SAME OUT > Stepping: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > Pogo (Symposium Stepping): CLIP > (no plant while) OP IN [DEX] > Quantum : TOE > OP IN [DEX] > (op side component) Slapping: TOE > OP IN [DEX] > (same side component) Bubba: CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > Atomic: TOE > OP OUT [DEX] > (op side component) Tapping (Atomic same side): TOE > OP OUT [DEX] (plant) > (same side component) Quasi (Paradox Miraging): CLIP > SAME IN [PDX] [DEX] > Terraging (Double Pixie): TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > High Stepping (Barraging): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > Sailing (Pixie Illusion): TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > Blurry (Stepping Paradox): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (op side paradox component) Furious (Barraging Paradox): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > (op side paradox component) Frantic (pixie-quantum): TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > OP IN [DEX] > Flailing (Symposium Reverse Miraging): SET > (no plant while) OP OUT [BOD] [DEX] > Fairy Atomic: TOE > SAME OUT [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > Shooting (Stepping Paradox Illusion): CLIP > (no plant while) OP IN [DEX] > OP OUT [PDX][DEX] > Infracting: opposite of a Refraction, done as a set. Spinning: Fairy Spinning: TOE > SAME OUT [DEX] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Pixie Inspinning: TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > (FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > Sonic (gyro spinning): CLIP > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Peeking (double gyro): SET > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Leaning (stepping inspinning): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (front) SPIN [BOD] > Go-Go (stepping backspinning): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (back) spin [bod] > Surging (gyro miraging): CLIP > (BACK/FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > OP IN [DEX] > Twinspinning (nuclear inspinning): CLIP > SAME OUT [DEX] > (FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > Neutron (Atomic spin): TOE > OP OUT [DEX] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (op side component) Whirl/swirl: Swirling/Burly: CLIP > SAME BACK/FRONT SWIRL [DEX] > Whirling: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (same side component) Blazing: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (op side component) Scattered (Reverse Whirling): CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > (same side component) Shattered (Reverse Whirling): CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > (op side component) Blistering (Whirling Gyro): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > *Broken (clipper reverse whirl): CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > (SAME) *(clipper reverse whirl spinning): CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > UNS set: Finchy (Pinching Fairy set): PINCH > SAME OUT [DEX] > Pixie Pinching: PINCH > SAME IN [DEX] > Twisted (Dragon set Swirling Paradox): DRAGON > SAME FRONT SWIRL [DEX] > SAME IN/OUT [PDX][DEX] > Snapping (Dragon set Swirling): DRAGON > SAME FRONT SWIRL [DEX] > Arctic (frigidosis Pixie): FRIGIDOSIS > SAME IN [DEX] > Antisymposium: Rooting/Rooted: The setting foot is on the ground (antisymposium) Zoid: rooted crossbody toe set Hyper (rooted pixie): rooted toe>same in Rooted Fairy set: rooted toe>same out Components of moves, but not neccesssarily sets: Ducking: SET > DUCK [BOD] > Diving: SET > DIVE [BOD] > Spinning: SET > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Inspinning: SET > (FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > Gyro: CLIP > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (same dex component) gimpy (stepping op knee bump: clip>op in>op knee bump pimpy (pixie same knee bump): toe>same in>same knee bump *=Anybody got a clue? Once again, if anybody see anything silly, yell this way. . Chris Holden mailto:shatter@planetquake.com From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 26 02:37:54 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA15746 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:37:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Chad Devlahovich Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA04887 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 01:51:46 -0700 Received: from BapFoLife@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id z.169.29f2168 (4561) for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 04:51:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <169.29f2168.2902951c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 04:51:40 EDT Subject: [freestyle] The Lion's Den To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10539 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Whats up freestylers, I have recently produced an epic shred video titled, "The Lion's Den." Digitally filmed and edited, this video features some of today's biggest names in the sport of footbag freestyle. To pick up a copy or get more information, check out ZoharPro.com or reply directly to me and not to the list. Thanks for your time. Halloween is approaching, Big Add Chad From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Fri Oct 26 02:37:55 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA15751 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:37:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:49:23 -0700 Received: from 161.184.25.193 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:49:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.25.193] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] History Lesson Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:49:22 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2001 20:49:23.0147 (UTC) FILETIME=[86D1F9B0:01C15D96] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list! I was just wondering if any of you can answer any of the following questions: [Moderator's Note: Of course, you are strongly requested to reply directly to the poster and allow him a week to aggregate and post the responses; do not reply to the list. -Steve] 1.Who hit the first 3 add and what was it? When? 2.First Four add? 3.First Five add? 4.First Six? 5.First Double Spinning move? 6.Which came first, Torque or Blender? 7.Who hit the first Superfly? 8.Who hit the first Barraging 3-dex? 9.Which came first, Blurrier or Blurriest? 10.Who invented the Clipper? 11.Who came up with the name Bubba? 12.Who hit the first Shooting Star? When? 13.What was the first Symposium move, and who coined the word Symposium? 14.What was the first Unusual delay, and who decided to make (UNS) and add category? Just thought I'd test everyone's knowledge. I can't answer any of these questions, and the answers might be interesting! Anyone know the answers to ALL of the questions? If you do, you kick ass. Dylan Livingston From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 30 19:36:15 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA15428 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:36:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15425 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:36:14 -0800 Received: from I (p60.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA23337 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:32:26 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:32:24 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Derrick moderating again Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Freestylers, Just so everyone knows, I've again asked Derrick Fogle to take over moderation of the freestyle and footbag discussion lists, after he took a nice little vacation from the list for the last couple of months. He has accepted even though he's extremely busy and is now moderating both lists. Again, I ask if anyone's interested in volunteering to be list administrator, talk to me. It'd be nice to have a few moderators we could rotate among over time as needed. Requirements are very good attention to detail, very frequent e-mail use, highly knowledgeable about e-mail (including knowing how to use e-mail filters), willing to deal with daily barrages of e-mail, ... oh never mind. Nobody's that crazy. :-) I really appreciate Derrick's help with this and hope you will all share in that appreciation with me. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 30 19:38:50 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA15433 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:38:50 -0800 From: owner-freestyle@footbag.org X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA29733 for ; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 04:11:34 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f182.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.182]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA02734 for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:07:55 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:07:54 -0700 Received: from 209.53.225.63 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 05:07:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.53.225.63] From: "Jonathan Zaleski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:07:54 -0700 Subject: [freestyle] Move ideas - what's been done? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Oct 2001 05:07:54.0928 (UTC) FILETIME=[80750B00: 01C15F6E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey List, This is just a bunch of footbag stuff that I've thought of. Im gonna try and keep it in order as best i can because im gonna write it down as i think. Firstly- Moves I've thought of and wondered if its been done. * "Some" of the stuff may sound pretty impossible but its still fun to think about. Barraging nuclear set Fairy backspinning whirling(im almost hittin that :) Butterfly Twirl (or reverse twirl) Reverse Ripstein Rooted inside swirls as a set swirling stepping swirling nuclear double inspinning anything would = phatness spinning paradox quantum symposium quantum symposium bubba double bubba (possibly named dubba twin spinning mobius (nucleas symposium or paradox or both whirr Question What moves have been hit ending in dragons or rakes? Info- Me an Rob Fuller have been hitting alot of ducking same side moves and diving opposite moves,and neither of us like saying all of those words so we decided to call them weaving and dodging. Weaving=ducking same side Dodging=diving opposite I hit but didnt seal(damnit!!!!) pixie weaving osis, if it doesnt have a name i think it should be called the grim weaver. Thats all I an think of for now. If any of this is wrong information, any of those moves have been hit,or called something else, please email, pre-thank you Jon Zaleski Shred long and prosper _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -Derrick "...and we all ate happily ever after." - Miles Sage Fogle From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 30 21:38:20 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16151 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 21:38:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA29733 for ; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 04:11:34 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f182.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.182]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA02734 for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:07:55 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:07:54 -0700 Received: from 209.53.225.63 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 05:07:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.53.225.63] From: "Jonathan Zaleski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:07:54 -0700 Subject: [freestyle] Move ideas - what's been done? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Oct 2001 05:07:54.0928 (UTC) FILETIME=[80750B00: 01C15F6E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey List, This is just a bunch of footbag stuff that I've thought of. Im gonna try and keep it in order as best i can because im gonna write it down as i think. Firstly- Moves I've thought of and wondered if its been done. * "Some" of the stuff may sound pretty impossible but its still fun to think about. Barraging nuclear set Fairy backspinning whirling(im almost hittin that :) Butterfly Twirl (or reverse twirl) Reverse Ripstein Rooted inside swirls as a set swirling stepping swirling nuclear double inspinning anything would = phatness spinning paradox quantum symposium quantum symposium bubba double bubba (possibly named dubba twin spinning mobius (nucleas symposium or paradox or both whirr Question What moves have been hit ending in dragons or rakes? Info- Me an Rob Fuller have been hitting alot of ducking same side moves and diving opposite moves,and neither of us like saying all of those words so we decided to call them weaving and dodging. Weaving=ducking same side Dodging=diving opposite I hit but didnt seal(damnit!!!!) pixie weaving osis, if it doesnt have a name i think it should be called the grim weaver. Thats all I an think of for now. If any of this is wrong information, any of those moves have been hit,or called something else, please email, pre-thank you Jon Zaleski Shred long and prosper _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Tue Oct 30 21:39:26 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16163 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 21:39:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f196.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.196]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15592 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:53:24 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:49:05 -0800 Received: from 161.184.26.90 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 20:49:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.26.90] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Motion Sickness Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 13:49:05 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Oct 2001 20:49:05.0342 (UTC) FILETIME=[5045E5E0:01C16184] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi list! I've just got a few things to say. First off, I've gotten tremendous input from several people for my previous post, History Lesson. I'll soon be posting the responses, but I still don't know who came up with Bubba, or what the first six-add was. Second, I'm attempting to compile a FULL move list, including as many obscure moves that list-members have hit as possible. I'm just doing this for the sheer fun of it, and to pass the time while I'm at work. If anyone has a move that ISN'T on the footbag.org move-list that they've hit, or seen hit, please e-mail me and I'll put it on the list. Eventually I'll post the list if anyone wants me to, but for now I'm just filling it out. I hope to one day have each and every possible footbag move on my list, but in order to do that, I need the support of all of you. Third, in relation to the second point, I just wanted to clear something up. A Motion is basically a Double-Dyno, correct? Is a Locomotion a Paradox Double-Dyno, or am I way off? Also, I've heard about some move called "Motion Sickness." Cool name for a move, but I have no clue what it is. If anyone knows what Motion Sickness is, could they please E-mail me? Thanks a lot, list. I hope I can spruce-up my move-list a little and have it ready for submission soon! PS:I will be submitting the answers I recieved for the "History Lesson" post in the next few days. I just want to make sure all of my responses are at least mostly correct. Thanks all! Dylan Livingston _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 31 18:50:21 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21243 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:50:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17201 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 00:30:18 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f125.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.125]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA08127 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:26:29 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:26:29 -0800 Received: from 128.148.209.72 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:26:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.209.72] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "Ken Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move ideas - what's been done? Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 20:26:29 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Oct 2001 01:26:29.0568 (UTC) FILETIME=[11013C00:01C161AB] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, Jon Zaleski brought up lots of stuff. So here's some answers. >Fairy backspinning whirling(im almost hittin that :) I know derric scalf has hit fairy spinning butterfly, osis, and legover (fairy merkon=farrakhan), and that Eric Reile and Brad Kaplan have hit fairy spinning osis. >Butterfly Twirl (or reverse twirl) Yeah, Allan Haggest has hit butterfly reverse twirl, including blurry. >Reverse Ripstein Yes, Jon Schneider has hit it and calls it revstein, he does it from a dragon. I once saw him hit ripstein ending in dragon to revstein. >swirls as a set Jon also has a dragon set reverse swirling set. He's hit twist, or dragon reverse swirling pdx mirage. I've seen some old video of rippin' where he did something like a forward swirling set. >symposium quantum Scalf mentioned seeing some new kid doing this, but other than that i've heard very little. >symposium bubba As a move, yes, as a set, not to my knowledge. >What moves have been hit ending in dragons or rakes? Jon will probably e-mail you his long list of dragon moves. Stuff like butterflies, drifter, swirl, ripstein(!), flipwalk, spinning dragon, etc. I've sealed stepping butterfly, ripwalk, diving butterfly, ducking butterfly, legbeater, and pixie butterfly ending in dragon. Eli Piltz has hit pdx drifter ending in dragon, and on video hit but didn't seal symp whirling swirling dragon. Daryl Genz and Jon have hit pteradon, or paradon ending in dragon. I saw daryl hit pteradon swirl this summer too. As for x-body rakes, pete irish does a lot of those. I've seen him hit blurry whirl ending in x-bdy rake, and he has apparently hit that symposium too. I've seen Mulroney on video hit whirlwind x-body rake. Lon has hit pixie x-body rake both sides same run. I've seen Sebastien hit ducking x-body rake. >diving opposite moves, Diving opp butterfly is Zulu Le Loup, named after eric wulff. Dave Holton has hit this stepping, and Rippin' has hit Zulu Whirl and Zulu barfly. I've hit pixie zulu le loup. Good ideas all around. Keep innovating everybody. Ken _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 31 18:54:11 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21292 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:54:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f131.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.131]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21257 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:52:33 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:48:11 -0800 Received: from 161.184.26.170 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:48:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.26.170] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re:Motion Sickness Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:48:11 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Oct 2001 19:48:11.0954 (UTC) FILETIME=[F918E120:01C16244] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Howdy List! I'm really coming along with the list, tho it is a real tough job. I'm told that Mulroney hit the infamous Motion Sickness on Video, and it's basically a Scorpion's tail, bailed to an Osis. If Ryan can vouch for this, that'd be great! If anyone has info on the Sonic set, or other obscure sets, please fill me in. I also need to know what a "Dustpan" is, and "Amasdeus". As well, I would really like anyone with a good knowledge of Job's notation to send in their moves in job's notation. I know it annoys a lot of you, and I can usually figure out the jobs, but it saves me a lot of time and effort. I noticed most people are sending me moves that NOONE's ever heard of. This is cool, but I'd also like info on moves that are common, but still not on the list. Guay is a good example, tho I know what that is. I'm also looking for list-moves that end in unusual delays. Has anyone hit Pixie pinching Drifter? Feel free to send me as few, or as many moves as you have seen, but I'd eventually like to have most of the possibilities documented. It might take me a couple years, but I'm willing to do that for footbag. I'm a die-hard wannabe. Thanks! a! lot everybody! Keep on sending 'em in! Dylan Livingston _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 31 20:01:46 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA21744 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:01:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21691 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:45:59 -0800 Received: from infometrics2.infometrics.co.nz (mail.infometrics.co.nz [210.48.109.82]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA19399 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:42:05 -0800 Received: by INFOMETRICS2 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:42:15 +1300 Message-ID: <11B671CB12E9D111A9DE0000F8E238953846B1@INFOMETRICS2> From: Floyd Morgan To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Move ideas - what's been done? Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:42:08 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was reading this post and saw Fairy backspinning and just had to add my two cents, I've added a list of things I have hit and things I've thought of and never hit it is quite long so don't feel obliged to read. Here's the Fairy Spinning stuff I've hit ------------------------------ Fairy Spinning Osis Fairy Spinning Torque (Phobia) Fairy Spinning Mirage (Torus) Fairy Spinning Symposium Mirage (Symposium Torus) Fairy Spinning Same Mirage (Anyone got a name for this?) Fairy Spinning Dada Curve (I was trying Fairy vortex and bailed) Fairy Spinning Same Refraction Fairy Spinning Same Butterfly Fairy Spinning Op. Clipper Things that crossed my mind (If anyone has hit any of these could they please fill me in on names etc) ------------------------- Fairy Spinning Op. Drifter (Fairy Vortex) Fairy Spinning Same Drifter (Fairy Lotus) Fairy Spinning OP. DLO Fairy Spinning Same Whirl Fairy Spinning Same Blender Fairy Spinning Dbl down Fairy Double Spinning Osis (have come close) Fairy Spinning Barrage Fairy Spinning Op. Butterfly (very strange on the hips) Fairy Spinning Symposium Torque (I would suggest Genuphobia for this - Fear of Knees) It annoys me that you can't get a Paradox add for fairy spinning same leg tricks. Cheers for reading Floyd PS >>Butterfly Twirl (or reverse twirl) > >Yeah, Allan Haggest has hit butterfly reverse twirl, >including blurry. Once I tried Double down Symposium Reverse Swirl as a "see how much I could cheat the add system" trick > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Ken Somolinos [mailto:footbug@hotmail.com] > >Sent: Wednesday, 31 October 2001 14:26 > >To: freestyle@footbag.org > >Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move ideas - what's been done? > > > > > > > > > >Hey all, > >Jon Zaleski brought up lots of stuff. So here's some answers. > > > >>Fairy backspinning whirling(im almost hittin that :) From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 31 20:05:37 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA21774 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:05:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from llic.net (sql.market.net [209.125.90.2]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21757 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:04:04 -0800 Received: from pilot13.cl.msu.edu (pilot13.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.33]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA20660 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:00:12 -0800 Received: from wks4lan (pm793-15.dialip.mich.net [35.12.11.67]) by pilot13.cl.msu.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f9VL0Ap132474 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:00:10 -0500 From: "Adam Keith" To: Subject: RE: [freestyle] Move ideas - what's been done? Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:06:26 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >symposium quantum I've hit symposium quantum butterfly (Frontside Symposium Toe Ripwalk)(both sides), Symposium Torque, and Frontside Symposium Toe Blur with true symposium quantum sets, but they are hard on the knees. I've also been trying for Frontside Symposium Toe Blizzard and Symposium Quantum Same Butterfly. I'd say the key to hitting this set is not trying to set the bag, but instead allowing the upward momentum from the dexterity to set the bag for you, all you have to do is concentrate on landing on the dexing foot. Adam Keith From owner-freestyle@list.footbag.org Wed Oct 31 21:01:14 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22160 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:01:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: list.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by list.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22033 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:36:20 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) id <0GM301701AI3GQ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:32:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.0-025 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GM301727AI3BZ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:32:27 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:17:38 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Motion Sickness To: freestyle Message-id: <3BC6A6FE@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I feel a need to clear something up about Dyno and Motion. These are not moves that can be paradox. More or less for the same reason Reverse Whirl (yes yes it's in dispute) and Barfly are not Paradox. If these moves are hit from the Op side, they are simply Op side Motion or Op side Dyno. No in/out dex or hip pivot while travelling to the opposite side of the body. Later, Brad