From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 2 06:29:15 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA09964 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 06:29:15 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f152.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.152]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA06607 for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2001 08:57:57 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 31 Dec 2001 08:46:37 -0800 Received: from 209.79.217.2 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 31 Dec 2001 16:46:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.79.217.2] From: "Randy Magliocca" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Weaving Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 16:46:37 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Dec 2001 16:46:37.0451 (UTC) FILETIME=[B6AA65B0:01C1921A] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What is weaving. I know this sounds stupid but I never learned what weaving was. Plz explain. Thanx. Randy _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 2 06:32:32 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA10070 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 06:32:32 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f79.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.79]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA14293 for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2002 13:38:35 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 1 Jan 2002 13:27:02 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 21:27:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: Jubal Hume To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Symposium at all? Was "More pixie moves" Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 13:27:02 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jan 2002 21:27:02.0993 (UTC) FILETIME=[0DE21C10:01C1930B] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >For any move to be symposium, the dexing leg must touch the ground before >the delay. >So the only way you can do a symp blender dyno, is by doing a symp whirling >same osis. >And even then it would be called a symp whirling same osis, and not symp >dyno/blender. > >Chris Pinkus true...as it was ten years ago...but contemporary freestylers tend to agree on the fact that new concepts have to be introduced to keep up with current freestyle moves...the old way was fine until footbaggers achieved the ability to do NEW concept moves...so instead of adding another category...we could just call it a backside symposium... call it what you will...it is still a more difficult move style... and this would end this string...unless there is a better idea for what to call it...cause it has to be called something or not be talked about. I say we all have an online forum and VOTE on all this stuff once and for all...like paradox and symposium and all that stuff that gets argued about..So anyone who wants to can e-mail me..or not...but it seems to me that all this text and time could be put to better use...like PROMOTING FOOTBAG...not picking at it !!!!!!!!!! I still need more people to join in the spring 2002 footbag promotions forum [date to be set soon]in Victoria BC Canada....see ya when you arrive...[all those who are..] and everyone is welcome...even non pro open..we are all in this together...or not... Jubal Hume _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 2 06:33:17 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA10081 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 06:33:17 -0800 Received: from web11403.mail.yahoo.com (web11403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.233]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id XAA02776 for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2002 23:08:17 -0800 Message-ID: <20020102070816.67063.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.73.250.22] by web11403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 23:08:16 PST Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 23:08:16 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: [freestyle] missing footbags :-( To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi people, New Years Jam was awesome! But I lost 2 footbags and that sucks! One of them is navy blue and yellow, the other is red and yellow. Both are 32 panel Mike Wilsons. If anyone has them, please let me know. Later, James Risden __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 2 06:40:30 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA10357 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 06:40:30 -0800 Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA09441 for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:32:07 -0800 Received: from attbi.com ([12.238.156.205]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20011231183159.EQAG20122.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:31:59 +0000 Message-ID: <3C30B001.11964B6E@attbi.com> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:35:45 -0600 From: "Derric Scalf" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Chicago Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. I just wanted to thank Scott D. for putting together an awesome shred. As always, it was fun to see the CIC tearing it up - Tim's swirling and fairy stuff made my knees hurt, James really can hit anything, and Eric's fairy atomic set is crazy. And if it has a whirl in it, Scott can hit it. Boo yeah. I had a lot of things that I wanted to post, but after hearing Jon Nagela's war cry, I forgot them all... Thanks for a good time, and it was good to finally put some faces to these names I've been seeing on the list for so long. Mike Wilson bags were all over the place. You can get more info on them at http://www.1freespace.com/mwil/bags.html. Thanks again for the good times, and I hope to see everyone in Colorado in a couple of months. And... on a more personal note, I need to welcome back my vortex - it has been gone too long. Later. -Derric DFC (yes, the website will be back soon) From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 2 20:20:52 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA09247 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:20:52 -0800 Received: from web20708.mail.yahoo.com (web20708.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.181]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id PAA01429 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:58:46 -0800 Message-ID: <20020102235846.28059.qmail@web20708.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.97.92.68] by web20708.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 15:58:46 PST Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:58:46 -0800 (PST) From: john kingi Subject: [freestyle] Inconsistency To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. Since I started playing footbag (about two years now) I've discovered there are little "secrets" you learn to help improve your string lengths and help hit bigger moves, I guess I mean the basic principles like the height of your set and staying straight instead of bending to far over ect. My problem is that recently I had a short break from kicking and now that I'm back at it again I seem to be so inconsistent its killing my game.I can't seem to remember the basic principles and find myself not being able to hit the most basic moves either on there own or in a string. This is killing my love for the game so I've no idea what to do. Anybody got any tips or ideas on what might help? Cheers. Peace. Johnny (Freestyle warrior) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 4 06:55:27 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA25151 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 06:55:27 -0800 Received: from web12508.mail.yahoo.com (web12508.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.200]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id PAA06690 for ; Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:38:54 -0800 Message-ID: <20011228233854.91649.qmail@web12508.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [210.50.30.6] by web12508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:38:54 PST Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:38:54 -0800 (PST) From: Hans Freller Subject: [freestyle] swirl "vs" symposium? To: Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org all this mumbo jumbo about being able to have a questionable move (symposium swirl) just for the sake of an extra "ADD". i haven't been kicking long but i fully understand the freestyle system and with a move like swirl you might as well say that a flying clipper (jester in NZ) is symposium. i would like to encourage all those who have been in the game for some years to add to this whole "when a move can and can't be symposium" issue, as it will off set all the new players. peace hanz See all at the worlds for 2002 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 4 06:58:30 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA25213 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 06:58:30 -0800 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA03140 for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 15:07:09 -0800 From: "Matthew Cross" Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id z.150.6afe466 (24896) for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 18:06:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <150.6afe466.29663e0f@aol.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 18:06:55 EST Subject: [freestyle] Does Frantic set get a symposium body add? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 28 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey 'Stylers, The subject says it all... I've been hitting yoda and pixie stepping same butterfly, and it seems to me that the second half of the set, the quantum part, is symposium, because the other leg is just beginning the pixie set. It sure FEELS symposium... Thoughts? Matthew Cross Rochester Footbag Association Rochester, NY From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 4 06:59:35 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA25228 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 06:59:35 -0800 Received: from tdds.assa.wroc.pl (tdds.assa.wroc.pl [156.17.219.1]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id EAA17989 for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 04:20:38 -0800 Received: from k5 (k-5.assa.wroc.pl [156.17.219.6]) by tdds.assa.wroc.pl (8.11.6/8.11.4) with SMTP id g03CKc225507 for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:20:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ash@tdds.assa.wroc.pl) Message-ID: <000d01c19450$ff3b85b0$06db119c@k5> From: Antek Szczeniowski To: Subject: [freestyle] 5add trick what is the name? Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:20:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have question about some new trick.My friend from club make some kinde of move pixie dyno or duble pixie osis it looks like toe>same in dex>same in dex>(body)spin>same clip(xbd,del) is it new trick or some one make it also ? Antek Szczeniowski From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 4 07:00:38 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id HAA25255 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 07:00:38 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f234.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.234]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA09676 for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 18:22:55 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 18:11:50 -0800 Received: from 139.80.123.34 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 02:11:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.34] From: "jono heyes" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] pogo Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 15:11:50 +1300 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jan 2002 02:11:50.0968 (UTC) FILETIME=[2BEFAB80:01C194C5] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all, i find it very hard to believe that a pogo paradox dada doesn't get at least one symposium dexterity, the first symposium sure is in the fashion of a symp whirl, without the hop back, making it appreciably easier, the second however is very much symposium, as symposium as a symposium butterfly you might say, the dexterity of course is all very dubious, my first seven add move still eludes me i think i'll have to settle for something else.....maybe a duck, hmmm Cheers ears jono _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 4 08:37:32 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA28088 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:37:32 -0800 Received: from pilot17.cl.msu.edu (pilot17.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.37]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA27725 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:22:54 -0800 Received: from wks4lan (pm391-38.dialip.mich.net [35.9.12.240]) by pilot17.cl.msu.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g04GMmg38450 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:22:49 -0500 From: "Adam Keith" To: Subject: RE: [freestyle] Does Frantic set get a symposium body add? Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:30:43 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <150.6afe466.29663e0f@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org It would get a symposium add if after doing the second dex the foot that does the pixie has not touched the ground, otherwise if the setting foot does touch while the second dex is being performed it is not symposium, just a move performed mostly while airborne. If you're hitting a symposium frantic set, that's sick!!! Adam Keith Hey 'Stylers, The subject says it all... I've been hitting yoda and pixie stepping same butterfly, and it seems to me that the second half of the set, the quantum part, is symposium, because the other leg is just beginning the pixie set. It sure FEELS symposium... Thoughts? Matthew Cross Rochester Footbag Association Rochester, NY From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 4 15:10:26 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA06080 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:10:26 -0800 Received: from web20901.mail.yahoo.com (web20901.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.223]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id KAA31050 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:43:02 -0800 Message-ID: <20020104184302.41040.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.108.215.75] by web20901.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:43:02 PST Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:43:02 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Nodi Subject: [freestyle] stretches To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm learning why I am not so good with certain parts of footbag. It's because of my stretching lack. I started stretching my ankle (which is what I want to do) by putting the outside of my foot on the ground and applying pressure for 30 seconds. This didnt help me at all. Someone please tell me a better way to stretch. I need to be able to make my ancle go 90 degrees inside. thanks Mike __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 4 15:12:42 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA06176 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:12:42 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f25.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.25]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA31347 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:50:59 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:50:58 -0800 Received: from 161.184.29.46 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 18:50:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.29.46] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] pogo Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 11:50:58 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jan 2002 18:50:58.0934 (UTC) FILETIME=[BFB55960:01C19550] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Just thought I'd recap. Symposium Stepping(Pogo) doesn't exist because you don't have to put very much strength into the hop. If executed well, you barely have to hop at all with a pogo set. This is because only half the dexterity is completed, and half a dexterity is very easy to not plant on. Either way, the consensus has been the same for a very long time. Pogo is not symposium, it is however unique. Symposium butterfly doesn't exist either, unless done perfectly. Again, the dex is a half a dex, making it very easy to perform the move symposium. In order for a butterfly to be symposium, it has to be an entirely different move. A reverse whirl. With a reverse whirl your leg revolves around the bag completely, making it possible for symposium, and paradox. A dada curve isn't symposium because usually it's done with a butterfly. It is possible however to hit it with a reverse whirl, but it's so hard to tell the difference in routine play, that hardly anyone does the move this way. I know the move seems robbed of adds when compared to a move like blurry ripwalk, the same move without hops, but give blurry ripwalk a try... Blurry ripwalk is hard because of the need to whip your legs around with expert speed. Pogo P Dada is hard because you have to hop, but your legs get a bit of a rest by bypassing some plants that slow you down in the long run. Both moves are unique to each other, so more power to anyone who's hitting either of these moves, and hey, if it makes you feel better, give the move two symposium adds! Just don't expect to score these adds in routine play. That's just the way the game is played. I like it that way, and most others do, so it'll probably stay that way for a while. Just my 2 cents, Dylan >From: "jono heyes" >To: freestyle@footbag.org >Subject: [freestyle] pogo >Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 15:11:50 +1300 > >Hello all, i find it very hard to believe that a pogo paradox dada doesn't >get at least one symposium dexterity, the first symposium sure is in the >fashion of a symp whirl, without the hop back, making it appreciably >easier, >the second however is very much symposium, as symposium as a symposium >butterfly you might say, the dexterity of course is all very dubious, my >first seven add move still eludes me >i think i'll have to settle for something else.....maybe a duck, hmmm >Cheers ears jono > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat Jan 5 07:06:07 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id HAA31252 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 07:06:07 -0800 Received: from mail2.pvt.net (mail2.pvt.net [194.149.101.165]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA07433 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:51:00 -0800 Received: from footbag-comp (phvD205.nextra.cz [213.210.135.205]) by mail2.pvt.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BA99F1E3160 for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 00:47:44 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000801c1957a$2277a660$cd87d2d5@footbag-comp> From: "Jan Struz" To: Subject: [freestyle] Adidas Lavermillenium II Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 00:47:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Does anyone know how are these shoes? they have them here: http://www.thestore.adidas.com/ and they seem very nice thnx Jan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat Jan 5 07:07:41 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id HAA31284 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 07:07:41 -0800 Received: from web20510.mail.yahoo.com (web20510.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.145]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id RAA10819 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 17:22:40 -0800 Message-ID: <20020105012239.95265.qmail@web20510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.201.215.78] by web20510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 17:22:39 PST Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 17:22:39 -0800 (PST) From: Caleb Abraham Subject: [freestyle] symposium To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ok, i never really had a lot of thoughts on these symposium arguments. i just thought that one jump with that dexing/jumping foot back on the ground equals one symposium, end of story. but everytime i check my mail there's at least 4 questions or comments about symposium moves. so i propose this: either the old talk about redueing the add system comes into play. or we could put a new part to the freestyle section of footbag.org. where there are a few questions about the latest hot topics, and everyone willing to, can vote. then after a few days the votes will be tallied and that could be the decider. i dunno, it's just a thought, because simply discussing it through emails won't accomplish much. sorry to make your life that much harder steve, but i thought it'd help. any thoughts? Live to Shred, Shred to Live Caleb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat Jan 5 07:09:13 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id HAA31328 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 07:09:13 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f259.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.8.134]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA18340 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 21:58:23 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 21:58:22 -0800 Received: from 210.50.30.4 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 05:58:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [210.50.30.4] From: "Hanz Freller" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Change of Address Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 05:58:22 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2002 05:58:22.0849 (UTC) FILETIME=[FBBDDF10:01C195AD] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sup to all my freestyling friends from far beyond, just thought I'd let you all know that I'm now living in Sydney, Ozzy. So if your passing through or hanging round in the Big Pixie Drifter (smoke) I'll be more than willing to hook up for a kick. Well let me know if you are going to be in town. See you all at the Worlds for 2002. Peace to you all Hanz _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat Jan 5 17:40:00 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA05969 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 17:40:00 -0800 Received: from web11608.mail.yahoo.com (web11608.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id JAA02347 for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 09:13:21 -0800 Message-ID: <20020105171321.11061.qmail@web11608.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [172.181.163.191] by web11608.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 09:13:21 PST Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 09:13:21 -0800 (PST) From: Ellis Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Does Frantic set get a To: freestyle@list.footbag.org In-Reply-To: <200201042326.PAA06682@llic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org List, From: "Matthew Cross" ...The subject says it all... I've been hitting yoda and pixie stepping same butterfly,... Well, the Frantic set can be done SMP, but it's not by default. You can do E-Walk and Frenzy symposium style, but it's a little harder. For example, to do an E-Walk symposium, you wouldn't plant the set foot until after you dex the bag on the Butterfly ending. For clarification, Yoda is disected and E-Walk is an arial set. Similar but different. Matt, hit it Flipside yet? Bust it! Ellis Piltz Flipsider.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat Jan 5 17:41:38 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA06041 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 17:41:38 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f273.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.148]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA04180 for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 10:28:26 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 10:28:26 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:28:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: Jubal Hume To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] symposium VOTE ON IT ALL Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:28:26 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2002 18:28:26.0663 (UTC) FILETIME=[C41AEB70:01C19616] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Caleb Abraham the vote idea rocks..... I SO AGREE....let it be all voted on!!!everyone who is at the open level can cast a vote on the more difficult to understand issues...and every player gets a vote on the rest.... then we can use the list for discussion about comps , promotions, events, videos, and all the stuff that it should be for..as well as new moves and concepts too... _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat Jan 5 17:42:45 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA06095 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 17:42:45 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f219.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.219]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA08593 for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 13:49:18 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 13:37:53 -0800 Received: from 128.214.157.163 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 21:37:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.214.157.163] From: "Samuli Viitanen" To: freestyle@footbag.org, dvswonderboy@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] stretches Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 21:37:53 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2002 21:37:53.0418 (UTC) FILETIME=[3B3816A0:01C19631] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi folks and happy new year to everyone! Mike Nodi wrote: >I'm learning why I am not so good with certain >parts of footbag. >It's because of my stretching lack. I started stretching >my ankle (which is what I want to do) by putting the outside of my foot >on the ground and applying pressure for 30 seconds. This didnt help me >at all. Someone please tell me a better way to stretch. I need to be >able to make my ancle go 90 degrees inside. I'd like to comment on this stretching issue. First of all, when stretching, be very careful on what you are doing! If you try to stretch your ankle (or any other part of your body to try to make your game better) by force you may damage your ankle (or some other part) very seriously. I personally hate this specific stretch for ankles (because it can really do harm to your ankles) and don't much recommend it anyone (just my opinion...). And secondly, you don't have to have 90-degrees-bending ankles to play freestyle well, (on my opinion) it's more about having learned the technique well enough to perform moves. Your ankles will start to bend just by playing and the muscle memory in your feet will develope during practice and you will gain flexibility to your ankles when skoolin' some stalls. A good way to increase the flexibility in your ankles is to do a LOT inside stalls. Quite boring but they help definitely:) Go easy when stretching, it takes a lot time to gain flexibility. Stretch a lot (before and after playing) and stretch with versatility, don't just focus on one specific thing (like just on the ankles). And perhaps constult a physical therapist on how to stretch and how to do it right. Just my two Euros, or cents... what ever:) (the new currency is driving me mad!! :) -Samuli Viitanen, Team Finland _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jan 6 14:38:18 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA30570 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 14:38:18 -0800 Received: from web11406.mail.yahoo.com (web11406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.236]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id UAA10885 for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 20:56:50 -0800 Message-ID: <20020106045650.44463.qmail@web11406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.73.250.22] by web11406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 20:56:50 PST Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 20:56:50 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] symposium To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Jubal Hume wrote: > I SO AGREE....let it be all voted on!!!everyone who > is at the open level can > cast a vote on the more difficult to understand > issues There isn't anything hard to understand about symposium. A ton of newbies are getting all confused. Dyno and blender cannot be symposium. Moves where you fake like you're symposiuming are NOT symposium either. Example of symposium... 1) right leg is hanging out in the air while left leg is on the ground 2) right leg never touches ground while left leg jumps up and dexs the footbag that I forgot to mention is in the air 3) right leg now catches the bag while left leg catches you It's that friggin simple!!! Notice "right leg" NEVER contacts the ground during the symposium part of the move. That's what sympsoium IS! Someone also mentioned that pixie quantum set "sure feels symposium". NO! Symposium mirage, symposium eggbeater, and symposium whirl are a few moves that feel symposium. Pixie quantum set feels nothing like symposium. Even if you do it symposium, it would just be toe pogo, and I don't believe symposium sets should be considered symposium(I could be alone on that thought). If you still don't understand, read up on it. Look at footbag.org or buy tricks of the trade or somthing. Later, James Risden __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jan 6 14:39:49 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA30607 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 14:39:49 -0800 Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA22651 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 08:58:42 -0800 From: Orbspiders@aol.com Received: from "David Sanchez" by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id z.115.a7f4106 (15886) for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 11:58:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from web48.aolmail.aol.com (web48.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.9]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINID81-0106115827; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 11:58:27 -0500 Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 11:58:27 EST Subject: [freestyle] Chilly review To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <115.a7f4106.2969dc33@aol.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all, The Chilly Philly was a success for sure. Philly Footworks would like to formally thank everyone in attendance(there were many more than I expected!). Hopefully this type of event will be indicative of the type of footbag year this is going to be. Kenny was busting crazy things like double spinning whirl(to a nice long string) and other eye splitting moves, Jon S. was twisting and contorting like no one else with his dragon style, Peter graced the crowd with his buddah like fluidity and grace while Gordon Bevier busted insanity after insanity with moves like atomic ducking mirage and countless other fantastic feets:) but the BAPpers weren't the only ones busting out nice moves. There were so many people that I had never seen before that could bust out some pretty nice moves. Some that I didn't even get to catch their names(surprisingly that is how many people made it!) but I did watch the whole room for a while and definitely liked what I saw. Lots of younger kids with an urgency to play and hopefully will all stick with it. Definitely props to Jake, the fellow that spent like $200 dollars in public transportation(and probably many hours) just to get to the Jam. We truly appreciate your making the effort. Sorry for the wordy review but I had a rather great time. I hope that maybe Bob or Kenny can fill you in on the end since I had to leave about an hour or two before everyone else. Keep shredding, David Sanchez From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 10 10:32:28 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA14050 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:32:28 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f303.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.178]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA04038 for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 10:22:48 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 10:22:44 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:22:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: Jubal Hume To: strup@pha.pvtnet.cz, freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Adidas Lavermillenium II Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:22:44 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2002 18:22:44.0410 (UTC) FILETIME=[F81B41A0:01C19615] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Does anyone know how are these shoes? > WWW.footbagvideo.com [my shameless website plug] :) Well I have not played in them...but it looks to me like they have the same prob as the older millenniums...the instep [arch] is rounded so there is a smaller inside stalling area... I personally still 100% prefer the originals!!!!!The BRicks as some fondly call them...also...the originals last me 2-3 years...I have seen the Millenniums burn out in two-4 months...hmmmm...30% less weight...in exchange for 2+ years of wear?...doesn't seem to be a good trade... besides...if they weigh more they will make you stronger...and this is good..is it not?... Jubal Hume _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 10 10:33:34 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA14102 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:33:34 -0800 Received: from pd4mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (h24-71-223-13.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.13]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA12620 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 01:47:01 -0800 Received: from pd4mr1so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.141.212]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GPK00IQ5B63QK@l-daemon> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 02:46:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml7so (pn2ml7so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.151]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GPK00F52B63W3@l-daemon> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 02:46:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from f1j8c2 ([24.67.167.96]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with SMTP id <0GPK00JEZB62NO@l-daemon> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 02:46:51 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 01:52:55 -0800 From: Jeff Lopes Subject: [freestyle] Shoe preference To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <000d01c19761$14b654c0$60a74318@ok.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list, Ive been out for a month with a serious hip injury, but Im slowly getting back into it now and was wondering what people prefer when it comes to tying their freestyle shoes. Not the style, the tightness. See, I like my shoes super loose, but I find pixies and fairy's easier if I tie my shoes tight, but spinning moves are easier when my shoes are loose.....its weird. Anyway, shred hard Jeff Lopes From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 10 10:34:31 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA14180 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:34:31 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f79.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.79]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA22701 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:35:12 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:35:08 -0800 Received: from 161.184.27.83 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:35:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.27.83] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] symposium Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 10:35:08 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jan 2002 17:35:08.0901 (UTC) FILETIME=[A6EAA950:01C197A1] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Pixie quantum set feels nothing like >symposium. Even if you do it symposium, it would just >be toe pogo, and I don't believe symposium sets should >be considered symposium Sorry, I gotta disagree! If you ask several people, they'll tell you that symposium quantum is entirely possible. It's hard, and that's precisely why it's being tried all over the place. In order for something to be symposium, you just have to complete a full dex with one leg, with no support from the other leg. Symposium quantum follows all these rules, it's just harder cuz you have to set the bag. If you can do it, you're good at footbag, you're not breaking any rules or sidestepping the add system, or whatever you want to call it, you're pushing yourself to the limit, which is the main reason for footbag. Also, what exactly is Toe Pogo? Pogo is another word for a hopping Step-set. It doesn't get an add because it's a half-dex and it's easier to do than a full hopping dex (I say hopping because it's not symposium sometimes and I don't want to confuse anybody). As was said in my last symposium post, it's fully possible to make a pogo set symposium, just look at clipper-set symp. mirage. But I don't want to get into that now. The frantic set, when done normally (Pixie, jump into quantum, land on setting foot), is not symposium, because the second leg lands after the first, but backside symposium frantic (Pixie, jump into quantum, land on initial support foot), is very obviously symposium. If you can't recognize the symposiumness of it, you should read the FAQ Symposium section of footbag.org. The symposium leg completes a full dexterity (Totally unlike pogo), which makes it full symposium, which merits a bod add. Though it's amazingly hard, it's also possible to do the frantic set frontside symposium. Props to anyone hitting this already! (Toe Set-Plant, lift other leg-Symp. Pixie-quantum-plant pixie leg) Wow. Ok! I hope this deals with the symposium Frantic thread. On another note, I really dig the idea of voting on some of the more complicated subjects in footbag, like this symposium BS, judging changes, add modification, paradox discussions, X-dex, etc. It's a really good idea and I think someone should step up and start it up. I'm a computer dummy, but I've seen some people set up polls before, so I know it's not too hard. This is quite important if you ask me. All this e-mail discussion gets ideas out of the bag, but then we all seem to stare and say, "Hey, look at what came out of that bag!", then forget about it. We should vote on lots of stuff like Sam's rule system(Still a damn good idea if you ask me), situations where butterfly is symposium, differences between pogo and symposium quantum, we could even vote after each big tournament on who we think should win! (Maybe...). Either way, we should do something. Don't do it for me, do it for the footbags. Dylan -All we are saaayiiiing Is give feet a chance _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 10 10:35:41 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA14233 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:35:41 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f165.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.165]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA03546 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 16:53:32 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 16:42:16 -0800 Received: from 161.184.29.141 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 00:42:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.29.141] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] List of footbag moves Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:42:16 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jan 2002 00:42:16.0866 (UTC) FILETIME=[525FC820:01C197DD] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Stylaz! Some of you might have heard I have a pretty complete list of footbag moves that I've been compiling for a while now. Now, I don't know a thing about webpages or servers or any of that junk, so I was wondering if anyone out there would like to help me get my list out there for perusal by the kicking public(Steve?). I've got 26 pages of freestyle moves and move tips, and though it's constantly growing and it's still under construction, I think it's worth showing people now. Anyone who wants feedback just email me and I can also send a personal E-mail with the list attached. I just can't send the list to the list, if you get my drifter. All this netscape server web firewall stuff is driving me Zululeloupy! Oh, and I FINALLY hit symposium whirl! Wooo! Peace all, Dylan Livingston _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 10 10:38:07 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA14316 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:38:07 -0800 Received: from mx1.port.ru (mx1.port.ru [194.67.57.11]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA06919 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 18:49:18 -0800 Received: from f10.int ([10.0.0.78] helo=f10.mail.ru) by mx1.port.ru with esmtp (Exim 3.14 #1) id 16NmK5-0002Vi-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 05:49:09 +0300 Received: from mail by f10.mail.ru with local (Exim 3.14 #1) id 16NmK3-0000SJ-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 05:49:07 +0300 Received: from [64.231.168.195] by win.mail.ru with HTTP; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:49:07 +0900 From: "Tony Zverev" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] What's up with Toronto? Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: mPOP Web-Mail 2.19 X-Originating-IP: [64.231.168.195] Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:49:07 +0900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sorry kickers, it's me again. Anybody who lives not far from toronto area, please give me a shouton my email droppless@hotmail.com It is very hard to shred with only one fella... it is also hard to find a gym here, so we, i hope, will think out something together. I know that there are more kickers, but i don't know what's up with em. I also know that there is a Toronto Footbag Club in my city, and i don't know anyone of it's members, although it consists of 10 players or something. So. anybody in Toronto give me a shout. Except Luke. Thank you, Tony Zverev From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 10 10:39:14 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA14371 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:39:14 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f71.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.71]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA30140 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 11:17:18 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 11:17:18 -0800 Received: from 161.184.29.249 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 19:17:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.29.249] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Who's hit what 2 Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:17:17 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jan 2002 19:17:18.0364 (UTC) FILETIME=[16C63DC0:01C19879] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. Just wondering if any of you crazy peeps have hit any of this stuff. Some of it's stuff I've heard of but can't verify, but most are just ideas I've had. The names I've given are just suggestions, I haven't hit any of this stuff, I don't know if anyone has. Barroque Screw (Clip-Op In-Same In-Fspin-Op Out-Same Clip) Gyro Barrage Gyro HP Drifter Gyro Pdx Barrage Triple Pixie (Trixie?) Pdx Blurry Drifter Anything Barraging Ducking Gyro Ripwalk Toe Fog (Quantum DLO) Quantum Legbeater Surging Ducking Pdx Torque (Clip-Bspin-Same In-Duck-Op In-Fspin-Op Clip) Paradox Big Apple (Windy City?) Blurry Symposium Whirling Swirl Blurry Blurry Anything Janicane (Tsunami?) (Clip-Bspin-Same In-Same In-Op Out-Op Clip) Swerving anything (Diving Op Side) Weaving Double Down (Down Weaver) Weaving Dyno Weaving Drifter Toe Flurry Toe Fury Double spinning Mirage Pdx Miraging Symposium Torque (Toxic Waste?) Pdx Barroque Spin Pdx Miraging Symposium Torque (Bigger Apple?) (Clip-Bspin-Op In-No plant while op in-Fspin-Op Clip) Not sure if big apple sauce is this or surging ps torque. Gyro Fury (Ya right!) Ok, good luck with this stuff. A lot of it has apparently been hit before, so anyone who's quite modest and forgets hitting that Gyro Fury... Ya right! Take it easy folks! PS:Props to all folks who have told me about their Blurroque attempts, but I must say, be very careful with this move. It can hurt if you mess up halfway through, so far no casualties, but I tried it yesterday, and it's painful. I didn't even come close. Keep on tryin' tho! Dylan "Doctor" Livingston _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 10 10:41:13 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA14454 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:41:13 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA13947 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:27:16 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GPQ02Y01J91FX@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GPQ02XLFJ914P@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:27:01 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:10:22 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] pogo To: freestyle Message-id: <3C36B278@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From jono heyes ===== >Hello all, i find it very hard to believe that a pogo paradox dada doesn't >get at least one symposium dexterity, >as symposium as a symposium >butterfly you might say The key words being "as symposium as a symposium butterfly". While I agree that doing a butterfly in some manner of symposiumness is a bit different than a regular butterfly, it is just not symposium. Dada is a great move that gets two dexes, a x-body, and a delay add. That's 4. When it's paradox it's 5. The best way to compare it for those who think it deserves yet another add for symposium is to consider Drifters. From a toe set or when done paradox, Drifter is far more difficult than Dada and gets one less add. So no need adding a symposium add where it's not fully deserved. Later, Brad "the Defribrillator" From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 10 11:40:08 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA16458 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:40:08 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA14547 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:43:06 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GPQ02Z01JZUIE@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:43:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GPQ02ZCOJZU2F@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:43:06 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:26:27 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] symposium To: freestyle Message-id: <3C36B46F@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From James Risden ===== >Pixie quantum set feels nothing like >symposium. Even if you do it symposium, it would just >be toe pogo, and I don't believe symposium sets should >be considered symposium(I could be alone on that >thought). I'm glad that James agrees on many things that can or can't be symposium, but I think I have to correct him on the last bit he wrote. Pixie Quantum can be symposium if done like this. toe set> same in> same (no plant)> op in> same plant In other words the second dex leg has to plant before the first. Later, Brad "The Defraculator" From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 10 11:41:03 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA16523 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:41:03 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA14912 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:55:25 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GPQ03001KK4EX@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:55:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GPQ03044KK49O@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:55:16 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:38:37 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Adidas Lavermillenium II To: freestyle Message-id: <3C36B681@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From Jubal Hume ===== >Well I have not played in them...but it looks to me like they have the same >prob as the older millenniums I haven't played in them either...YET, but I've heard that they have even more support than the older milleniums and weigh about the same. >I personally still 100% prefer the originals!!!!!The BRicks as some fondly >call them...also...the originals last me 2-3 years...I have seen the >Millenniums burn out in two-4 months I've had my Milleniums for almost two years and they haven't burned out yet. The Originals or "The Bricks" as they WERE called are no longer so. Since they started being made in China last year they are now lighter than the true Originals. My personal preference and recommendation would be to use the Chinese Lavers, but if you are of larger build and need the added support I would say to use the Milleniums. Later, "Baliwhip" Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 11 07:19:55 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id HAA15503 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:19:55 -0800 Received: from web11408.mail.yahoo.com (web11408.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.238]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id MAA18853 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:46:15 -0800 Message-ID: <20020110204615.9936.qmail@web11408.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.73.250.22] by web11408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:46:15 PST Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:46:15 -0800 (PST) From: James Risden Subject: Re: [freestyle] symposium To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Dylan Livingston wrote: > Sorry, I gotta disagree! If you ask several people, > they'll tell you that > symposium quantum is entirely possible. It's hard, > and that's precisely why > it's being tried all over the place. In order for > something to be > symposium, you just have to complete a full dex with > one leg, with no > support from the other leg. Oh my lawd! I know what friggn symposium is. > Symposium quantum > follows all these rules, So does clipper set symposium stepping set. Noone considers it symposium though cause it's a symposium SET, which is easier to do than symposium on the way down. To break it down, it's weak so it doesn't get an add. That's all I was saying when I stated that I don't believe symposium sets should get a symposium add. If you like the move, do it. It's still looks cool. Later, James Risden __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 11 07:20:43 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id HAA15540 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:20:43 -0800 Received: from bergman.umail.ucsb.edu (bergman.umail.ucsb.edu [128.111.151.203]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA24358 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:19:55 -0800 Received: from http by bergman.umail.ucsb.edu with local (Exim 3.16 #3) id 16OoU1-0005ua-00 for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:19:41 -0800 To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: [Freestyle] Adidas Lavermillenium II Message-ID: <1010704781.3c3e218d621bc@secureweb.umail.ucsb.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:19:41 -0800 (PST) From: Jeremy Mirken MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org To whomever this may concern, AS opposed to Jubal's perspective on Laver Millennium II shoes, that "the Millenniums burn out in two-4 months...hmmmm...30% less weight...in exchange for 2+ years of wear?...doesn't seem to be a good trade...," I shall offer my thoughts: Millenniums are great. I've had mine for three months now, and there are still no signs of wear (this coming from a shredder who constantly wears thin the anterior area on the sole of the old lavers and china lavers). They seem to be durable; they are very light, allowing for quicker dexes, althought they seem to be slightly more bulky. It takes only a week to get used to the new feel of the millenniums (primrily one needs more knee bend for x-body moves)and they'll sure save your shins, feet, and ankles from unneccessary laver torture. C'mon, with shredders like chad, ahren, richie, and sunil wearing millenniums, they can't be too bad, eh? Just my persrective, Jeremy "Senor Grommet" Mirken From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat Jan 12 09:55:13 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA28373 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:55:13 -0800 Received: from web20108.mail.yahoo.com (web20108.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.45]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id IAA17854 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:30:48 -0800 Message-ID: <20020111163047.48895.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.73.250.22] by web20108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:30:47 PST Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:30:47 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Reile Subject: [freestyle] Re: [Freestyle] Adidas Lavermillenium II To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <1010704781.3c3e218d621bc@secureweb.umail.ucsb.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Jeremy Mirken wrote: > I shall offer my thoughts: Millenniums are great. > I've had mine for three months now, and there are > still no signs of wear (this coming from a shredder > who constantly wears thin the anterior area on the > sole of the old lavers and china lavers). They seem > to be durable; they are very light, allowing for > quicker dexes, althought they seem to be slightly > more bulky. Word, I totally agree. I have had my milleniums (the first and only lavers I ever bought) since spring of 2000. That's getting close to 2 years now, and they still serve me well. The only visible wear on them, other than a thick layer of dirt, is a few minor holes on the outside surface of one of them. And due to my very limited funds, these shoes are not only my kicking shoes, but the ones i wear everywear. So they have been on my feet everyday for almost years. Not bad for a shoe projected to last only 2-4 months. Peace, Eric Reile Chicago Inner Circle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat Jan 12 09:59:11 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA28463 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:59:11 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f110.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.110]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA21656 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:31:01 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:30:57 -0800 Received: from 161.184.29.134 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:30:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.29.134] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] List of footbag moves Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:30:57 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jan 2002 18:30:57.0786 (UTC) FILETIME=[1CA8F5A0:01C19ACE] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, Thanks a lot to everyone who is working to get my move-list out there. I've had a couple complaints, mainly because I neglected to mention which program I used to write the list. To all who have been unsuccessful in opening the list, and to all who have nasty tabs all over the place, I wrote the list in Microsoft Works (.WPS). If you open the file in MS works, it should look a lot cleaner than if you open it in Wordpad or Notepad. I don't know if it will open in Wordperfect or not. Sorry if some of you don't have MS Works, but from what I'm told, the list will open in Notepad, but my notepad didn't have enough memory to open it. MS Works is mandatory in most computers anyway tho. On a second note, anyone who has recieved my list and would like it to be updated on a bi-weekly basis MUST let me know through e-mail. I don't want to annoy people by sending them big e-mail files every 2 weeks when they don't want me to, but I also don't want people to have the same old version of my list for months if they're hosting it on a website or even for personal use. 1st update will be a week next Thursday. Thanks again everybody! Dylan Livingston _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat Jan 12 10:00:50 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA28519 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 10:00:50 -0800 Received: from pilot23.cl.msu.edu (pilot23.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.43]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA23267 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:14:45 -0800 Received: from wks4lan (pm531-27.dialip.mich.net [35.9.49.29]) by pilot23.cl.msu.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g0BJEdW49734 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:14:39 -0500 From: "Adam Keith" To: Subject: RE: [freestyle] symposium Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:21:47 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <20020110204615.9936.qmail@web11408.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Actually I think it doesn't get the symposium add for the same reason symposium butterfly does not get a symposium add, because it is cheap (only a half dex), not because it is a set (notice they happen to be rewinds of each other). Saying that symposium quantum and symposium atomic sets should not get symposium adds is like saying symposium mirage and flail should not get symposium adds either because they are also rewinds of each other (and personally I think symposium atomic set is much harder than symposium mirages, as is symposium quantum to flail). If moves did not get a symposium add on the set then there would also be no symposium whriling swirl and such. Adam Keith James Risden wrote: >So does clipper set symposium stepping set. Noone >considers it symposium though cause it's a symposium >SET, which is easier to do than symposium on the way >down. To break it down, it's weak so it doesn't get >an add. That's all I was saying when I stated that I >don't believe symposium sets should get a symposium >add. If you like the move, do it. It's still looks >cool. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat Jan 12 15:43:30 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA08998 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 15:43:30 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f30.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.30]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA08889 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 15:38:52 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 15:38:44 -0800 Received: from 24.148.17.243 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 23:38:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.148.17.243] From: "Alex Ibardaloza" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Black Lavers Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:38:43 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jan 2002 23:38:44.0157 (UTC) FILETIME=[45E34ED0:01C19BC2] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org W'sup, I just saw a pair of black Rod Lavers in an Easbay catalog. I was just wondering if any one else has seen them or is shredding in them. The brief description in the picture simply says: Perforated full-grain leather upper, Polyurethane midsole/outsole. $64.99 :( You can go to www.eastbay.com to view it. On the left side of the homepage type the product number:675115. Laterz, Zeke Chicago Inner Circle _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jan 13 11:53:14 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA06022 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:53:14 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f48.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.48]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA25176 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 01:04:32 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 01:04:31 -0800 Received: from 216.161.89.168 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:04:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [216.161.89.168] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Problems with Job's Notation Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:04:31 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jan 2002 09:04:31.0878 (UTC) FILETIME=[504E7260:01C19C11] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi List, Have you ever had trouble describing a move in Job's? If so please tell me what it was and why. I had some ideas about improving Job's (specifically to clear up confusion about where a dex is performed), but before I make any kind of proposal I thought I'd better get a better idea about what people are having trouble with. Please respond directly to me and thanks in advance for your time. -Andrew _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jan 13 11:52:12 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA05990 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:52:12 -0800 Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA11179 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:52:46 -0800 From: "Matt Cross" Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id i.193.fb1df6 (4398); Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:52:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <193.fb1df6.29723449@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:52:25 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Black Lavers To: airzeke@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 28 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey 'Stylers, In a message dated 1/12/02 6:45:37 PM, airzeke@hotmail.com writes: > just saw a pair of black Rod Lavers in an Easbay catalog. I was just >wondering if any one else has seen them or is shredding in them. >The brief description in the picture simply says: Perforated full-grain > >leather upper, Polyurethane midsole/outsole. $64.99 Black Lavers = Cool. Really cool. Leather Upper = Bad for freestyle. No sensitivity, no grippiness, and, I'd assume, heavier than mesh. If you want black lavers, get a magic marker ;) 'Nuff said? 'Nuff said. Matt Cross Rochester Footbag Association Rochester, NY From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 15 11:38:21 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA32517 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:38:21 -0800 Received: from web20503.mail.yahoo.com (web20503.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.138]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id NAA28129 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:18:04 -0800 Message-ID: <20020113211804.16733.qmail@web20503.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.226.142.63] by web20503.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:18:04 PST Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:18:04 -0800 (PST) From: Caleb Abraham Subject: [freestyle] high five To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey stylas, i just hit my first 5 add move! woohoo!!! i was wondering what it was called and if anyone else has hit it. i guess it would be a surging same osis. i dunno, here come the jobs: clip>spin (back)>same in>spin (back)>same clip hmm, i am not too sure about the spin directions. it'd just be like a mobius except the osis is with the other foot. by the way, if i did manage to hit mobius surging style, would it be a crispy mobius? or am i hitting something else all together? Live to Shred, Shred to Live Caleb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 15 11:39:24 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA32578 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:39:24 -0800 Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA13361 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 16:09:39 -0800 From: "Tony Glick" Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id z.be.20ed6619 (15859) for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 19:09:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from web34.aolmail.aol.com (web34.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.10]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINID510-0113190915; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 19:09:15 -0500 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 19:09:15 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Black Lavers To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Zeke wrote: "I just saw a pair of black Rod Lavers in an Easbay catalog. I was just wondering if any one else has seen them or is shredding in them. The brief description in the picture simply says: Perforated full-grain leather upper, Polyurethane midsole/outsole." I have a pair of black Lavers, but I painted them. I actually got the idea from Justin Sexton. First I used a big, thick black marker but that made them look purple. The solution to that problem was spray paint. I put one coat on and they looked great. I usually touch them up once a year with a coat. Just don't wear white socks because when you sweat your socks AND feet will turn black. So instead of dropping $65 on a new pair, just spend a few bucks on some spray paint! Tony Glick From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 15 11:40:37 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA32643 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:40:37 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f18.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.18]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA13328 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:15:13 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:03:16 -0800 Received: from 139.80.123.34 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:03:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [139.80.123.34] From: "jono heyes" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Blurry barroque anyone? Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:03:16 +1300 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jan 2002 21:03:16.0830 (UTC) FILETIME=[E331A7E0:01C19D3E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all, i'm just egotistically curious as to whether a blurry barroque, or anything into barroque has been hit. I'm getting very close to it, a weazels genitalia away from it you might say. Though i'm sure someone has beaten me or will beat me to this one, like Eli or maybe Ahren?? If not i'm thinking i'll call it the ' my name is jono look at me i'm so cool, ha ha ha', though 'techno bach', would perhaps be more in holding with the origins of the original name. agressive and condecending replies and any other forms of emotional catharsis most welcome, Jono( the rectomiser) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 15 11:42:26 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA00304 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:42:26 -0800 Received: from radius.uti.hu (ns.uti.hu [213.163.24.1]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA14197 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:35:02 -0800 Received: from [213.163.25.44] (b-dial44.uti.hu [213.163.25.44]) by radius.uti.hu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g0ELYuf18428 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:34:56 +0100 (MET) From: "Csallo Gergo" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Problems with Job's Notation To: !Freestyle List Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:34:30 +0100 Lines: 15 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey List, I read the argument about the "fail of the add system" in the near future :) I thought I'll give you a new idea, maybe not new, forgive me in this case. > "Have you ever had trouble describing a move in Job's? If so please tell me  > what it was and why." Oh yeah, lets just say PENDULUM, RAKE... and in some cases: OSIS Wouldnt it be easier to include an add category: SWING (or include it for BODY ADD Category) With this, some moves could be written in jobs, that were just explained with words so far. Seeya all on the Euros!!!! Gergo, the Rebelkid From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 15 11:43:40 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA00362 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:43:40 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f252.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.236.130]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA16409 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:49:25 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:49:21 -0800 Received: from 161.184.26.175 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:49:21 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.26.175] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Easiest five Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 15:49:21 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jan 2002 22:49:21.0816 (UTC) FILETIME=[B5057180:01C19D4D] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list! I was wondering, in the humble opinion of each of you shredders, what's the easiest five add move? Cuz seriously, my first five add came yesterday, and I don't think it was supposed to be Mobius!! I hit Mobius from clipper and from toe on one side (Both sides from clipper). I've heard Paradox Torque or Blurry Whirl should come early, and that Mobius is one of the harder fives, but I'm useless at Blurry Whirl, and I've almost hit Ptorque, but not quite. Mobius feels good to me. It's almost as easy as something like symposium whirl. So, is there anyone who finds Mobius to be the easiest five, like me, or is everyone out there sane? Also, is anyone hitting Toe-mobius? I hit it clean but unsealed yesterday and I'm going to hit it today no sweat. I'd call it Toebius if noone's hitting it (Yeah, I know it's not unique). Some other easy fives that I've almost hit: Pdx Torque Symposium torque Ps whirl(Sooooooo close!!!) Spinning ducking osis (Spin then duck) Backside symposium Blur (Clipper blur) Ducking insp. Whirl (I think..) (Clip-Duck-spin-Same In-Op Clip) Swivel (Symposium Twirl, reverse swirl is Reversival) Twirling Reverse Swirl (I'm serious, I was very close to hitting this!) Anybody have other moves that are relatively easy fives (When compared to Bedwetter or Void?) Is Vertigo easier than Void? Tell me!! I must know all there is to know!!! Peace all, Dylan _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 15 12:12:50 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA01850 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:12:50 -0800 Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA01505 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:05:47 -0800 Received: from 24-205-34-189.glen-dyn.charterpipeline.com ([24.205.34.189] helo=sam) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16QZq6-0005RU-00; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:05:46 -0800 Message-ID: <003e01c19dff$a36f82a0$bd22cd18@charterpipeline.com> From: "Sam Colclough" To: "Caleb Abraham" , References: <20020113211804.16733.qmail@web20503.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] high five Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:03:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org From: "Caleb Abraham" [S]hey stylas, [H] [R]i just hit my first 5 add move! woohoo!!! i was [E]wondering what it was called and if anyone else has [D]hit it. i guess it would be a surging same osis. i [*]dunno, here come the jobs: [O] [N]clip>spin (back)>same in>spin (back)>same clip That's so phat. One thing I've never seen Chad D.o is surging same side. Try surging same mirage. Surging same butterfly. Surging same barfly (surging same double over down?) Whoa. clip > backspin > same in > same out > same out > op clip Is that a surging same barfly or a surging same double over down. If you just look at which foot does the paradon style dex it is technically a barfly. As previously mentioned: is it a pixie same double switchover? Where's the switch? or is it pixie same double ATW? Surging is SO COOL. Chad think of a name for surging same side? Would it be a soda or would it be rotary?? hahah > by the way, if i did manage to hit mobius surging > style, would it be a crispy mobius? or am i hitting > something else all together? I'm gonna go with surging osis. So who hit surging ducking paradox torque? Was that you defender?? > Live to Shred, Shred to Live > Caleb Samuellis Colclough From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 16 20:30:02 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA28039 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:30:02 -0800 Received: from borg.ec.rockwell.com ([199.191.58.9]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA04033 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:00:50 -0800 From: "Dan Klokow" Received: from ecsmtp01.ec.rockwell.com (ecsmtp01.ec.rockwell.com [10.145.100.50]) by borg.ec.rockwell.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25017; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:00:29 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Easiest five To: "Dylan Livingston" Cc: freestyle@list.footbag.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.7 March 21, 2001 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:00:35 -0600 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on ECSMTP01/EC/Rockwell(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 01/15/2002 02:58:38 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dylan L. wrote, 'I was wondering, in the humble opinion of each of you shredders, what's the easiest five add move?' Hey Dylan, All 5's are hard.. yet the move is only as hard as you decide to make it. Jus' work it. Personally, I still have trouble with osis. Toebius has been hit. Zeke Ibardaloza can nail that one. Although im not sure who or when its was named, if that name is even correct. I dont like to brag.. so i wont. See you all at CSS3 Dan Klokow Chicago Inner Circle From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 16 20:30:39 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA28074 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:30:39 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f141.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.141]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA06127 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:54:03 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:53:59 -0800 Received: from 161.184.26.157 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:53:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.26.157] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] high five Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:53:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2002 21:53:59.0528 (UTC) FILETIME=[23324680:01C19E0F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hmm.. Super sick man! If it was a true gyro blender that's extra sick, but I'm guessing it was more like surging same osis. Gyro blender style is a little iffy tho. Think about it. If you decide not to spin at all when you do a gyro blender, you'll just do a swirl. So the difference between swirl and gyroblender is the amount of spin applied to the move. If you barely shift your feet, you're technically hitting a three add, and not a five. But if you back spin, then backspin again after the dex, it's honest to goodness five material! Gotta watch those moves tho. I've actually set a move behind my back with a clipper, then did a Same in dex into a same osis (I think this is called infracting or something). It was totally blind and very cool, but I didn't move my support foot at all, so it wasn't gyroblender, it was infracting swirl or something. Surging same osis is sick stuff tho man, good show!! Dylan >From: Caleb Abraham >To: freestyle@footbag.org >Subject: [freestyle] high five >Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:18:04 -0800 (PST) > >hey stylas, > >i just hit my first 5 add move! woohoo!!! i was >wondering what it was called and if anyone else has >hit it. i guess it would be a surging same osis. i >dunno, here come the jobs: > >clip>spin (back)>same in>spin (back)>same clip > >hmm, i am not too sure about the spin directions. >it'd just be like a mobius except the osis is with the >other foot. > >by the way, if i did manage to hit mobius surging >style, would it be a crispy mobius? or am i hitting >something else all together? > >Live to Shred, Shred to Live >Caleb > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! >http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 16 20:31:49 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA28104 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:31:49 -0800 Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA06524 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:08:08 -0800 Received: from 24-205-34-189.glen-dyn.charterpipeline.com ([24.205.34.189] helo=sam) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16QbkW-0007KT-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:08:08 -0800 Message-ID: <001401c19e10$ba660cc0$bd22cd18@charterpipeline.com> From: "Sam Colclough" To: Subject: [freestyle] CSS3 Room sharing? Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:05:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello fellow Lon-enthusiasts, Anyone want to share room at CSS3? I'm either looking for 3 other peoples who haven't got a room yet or 3 other people that need one more for their room. If you fit any category whatsoever please e-mail me privately. Sam Colclough From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 16 20:32:38 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA28134 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:32:38 -0800 Received: from radius.uti.hu (ns.uti.hu [213.163.24.1]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA09241 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:42:14 -0800 Received: from [213.163.25.118] (b-dial118.uti.hu [213.163.25.118]) by radius.uti.hu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g0FNfjf21858 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:41:52 +0100 (MET) From: "Csallo Gergo" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Easiest five To: !Freestyle List Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:41:32 +0100 Lines: 16 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Hey list! Yeah, hi to all! >I was wondering, in the humble opinion of each of you shredders, what's the >easiest five add move? I think I also hit a 5 add: TOE > SAME IN > (no plant while) OP OUT > OP CLIP Kinda like a symposium dimwalk (or exactly, I dont know) That is easier then any other 5 add I guess :) See you all on the Euroes! Gergo From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 16 20:33:10 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA28168 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:33:10 -0800 Received: from mail23.bigmailbox.com (mail23.bigmailbox.com [209.132.220.203]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA13268 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:57:37 -0800 Received: (from www@localhost) by mail23.bigmailbox.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) id g0G1vWC02523; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:57:32 -0800 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:57:32 -0800 Message-Id: <200201160157.g0G1vWC02523@mail23.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [152.163.194.213] From: "Nino Almazon" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Easiest five Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dylan wrote: >I was wondering, in the humble opinion of each of you shredders, what's the easiest five add move? I've only been kicking for about three years, and the easiest fives that have come to me are GYBAS(Grab Your Balls and Squeeze , is that the correct name for torque ending in dyno?) and Blurriest. I'm close to Paradox Torque and Ducking Symp. Reverse Whirl but I thought Blurriest would be real easy if you know stepping sets and Barflies real well as they are staple tricks. go eastcoast shred, ill nino ------------------------------------------------------------ YourName@CannabisMail.com for FREE ! http://www.CannabisMail.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 16 20:34:33 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA28231 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:34:33 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f125.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.125]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA14350 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:36:17 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:24:38 -0800 Received: from 24.4.252.10 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 02:24:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.4.252.10] From: "David Tomlinson" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Sloe stall Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:24:38 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2002 02:24:38.0604 (UTC) FILETIME=[F270A0C0:01C19E34] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey list, i was wondering what moves have been done from a sloe stall? i can just get a leg over, but i'm close to a mirage, paradox mirage, and whirl. what have you guys hit??? David _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 16 20:34:58 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA28246 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:34:58 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f19.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.19]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA22239 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:25:46 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:25:46 -0800 Received: from 24.148.17.243 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 05:25:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.148.17.243] From: "Alex Ibardaloza" To: freestyle@footbag.org Cc: shags125@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] Easiest five Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:25:43 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2002 05:25:46.0560 (UTC) FILETIME=[403F1C00:01C19E4E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dylan Livingston wrote: >Also, is anyone hitting Toe-mobius? ... I'd call it Toebius if no >one's >hitting it... W'sup, I've been hittng toebius since late 1999. I hit an unsealed one on Dan Klokow's video, C.I.C. Shred. There is also a clip of me hitting toe set gyro double legover in the beggining of the tape. It's rare that I ever post moves I've hit but, "what else I can do?" lol. These are other toe set gyro/spinning moves I can hit or have hit: -toe gyro mirage -toe gyro dragonfly -toe set spinning flying clipper -toe set spinning butterfly (delay and flyer) -toe set spinning osis -toe gyro syposium mirage Boo-ya! Just dont ask me to hit a string... :( Laterz, Zeke Chicago Inner Circle PS Anyone ever hit toe set vortex? Or toe set Lotus? What about other toe set spinning pdx moves? _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 16 20:35:56 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA28280 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:35:56 -0800 Received: from web11603.mail.yahoo.com (web11603.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.55]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id VAA22600 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:45:35 -0800 Message-ID: <20020116054535.61428.qmail@web11603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.81.17.23] by web11603.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:45:35 PST Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:45:35 -0800 (PST) From: Ellis Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Easiest five To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What's up all you ripping individuals? I'm very stoked to see so much energy from so many players contributing to this discussion list- very cool. Lots of people coming out of "nowhere" and learning this dope sport. Dylan Livingston wrote: > Mobius feels good to me. It's almost as easy... Mobius is and will always be a very rad move. If you are hitting Mobius now, it's not because it's easy. I would imagine your spins are good, so when your stepping set catches up to your spins, then Blurry Whirl may become your easiest 5. For me Blurry Whirl or Paradox Blender was my first 5- I forget which. Toe set Mobius is called Tobius, named after the all powerful Toby-1. > Is Vertigo easier than Void? Tell me!! I must know all there is to know!!! Hehehe, that's great. I'm stoked you're stoked on footbag. Again, you can't compare tricks like that. If a player has taken his/her time to skool the basics and learn a well-rounded foundation, then both tricks will be attainable. Vertigo has a tighter window than Void, and Void has a difficult momentum change. I think they are about the same in difficulty. > Ducking insp. Whirl (I think..) I have a criticism of this sort of trick. To clean a duck, the bag needs to pass up, over, and down around the neck. When I've seen people Inspin off a Duck, they are missing part of the duck. > (.. reverse swirl is Reversival).. Um, when did this happen? :) > Twirling Reverse Swirl.. That's a really cool idea. I've never seen this, so I gotta go try it. That's a reverse swirl set, then back spin and reverse swirl, right? Kind of like a reverse Burly Swirl (Swirling Blender). Anyway, shred on y'all. Peace, Ellis Piltz Flipsider.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 16 20:37:00 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA28316 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:37:00 -0800 Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id HAA09040 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 07:52:38 -0800 From: "David Sanchez" Received: from Orbspiders@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id i.43.502b52f (15895); Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:52:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from web30.aolmail.aol.com (web30.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.6]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINID810-0116105201; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:52:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:52:01 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Easiest five To: Cc: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <43.502b52f.2976fba1@aol.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello shred community, There have recently been a couple of e-mails about "easy fives" and things of the like. I just don't get what people are talking about. They want to know how they can get five adds the easiest? Footbag isn't all about the adds and it certainly isn't about anything easy. Adds only count in competition and if you are looking for the easiest one then you are most likely not going to be busting it out in a competition(where you would get the extra whatever). My point is,,, if you think the move is phat then school it. Who cares how many adds or how easy it is for everyone else. You have a different body and mind from everyone else and therefore the ease at which you accomplish things is absolutely subjective. Try to hit every move that you can think of, both sides. If you tweek out your knee everytime you try a certain move, then you can logically leave that one move out of your vocab(such is the case with the Blazing set). Otherwise don't let any person tell you what moves to try and what not to try. Hit them all, they are all hard until you hit them several times. I remember my roomate in school betting me a slurpee that I would never hit a "jester stall"(aka clipper) thinking that it was damn near impossible. What a world it is. I love footbag and don't really mean to sound like a grouch so just take the world lightly, it truly is a comedy. Shred it up, David Sanchez From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 16 20:38:23 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA28433 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:38:23 -0800 Received: from I (brat.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA28430 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:38:23 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <43.502b52f.2976fba1@aol.com> References: <43.502b52f.2976fba1@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:38:29 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Easiest five Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org All moves are easy if you can hit them all the time. Where has this list gone? I'll rejoin sometime soon and create some controversy, 'cause obviously it's too boring right now. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 16 20:38:53 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA28469 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:38:53 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f294.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.169]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA27604 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:12:41 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:01:20 -0800 Received: from 24.50.234.201 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 04:01:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.50.234.201] From: "Steve Collins" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Player Introduction Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 04:01:19 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jan 2002 04:01:20.0234 (UTC) FILETIME=[9EE4DCA0:01C19F0B] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all, Im new to this list and I wanted to basically introduce myself to everyone Im Steve, Im 22 yrs. old I live in Southern Ohio(Tri-State Area of Ohio,Kentucky,West Virginia) I have been playing around with the footbag on and off for about 5 or 6 yrs. Kickin around with friends, or by myself. I had quit playing for awhile because I thought I was getting too old for the sport then one day I was nosing around on the internet and fell upon www.footbag.org and it renewed my interest in the sport. Plus I feel your never too old if you can still kick it up and do tricks and whatnot. Well enough of my rambling hope to hear from the list soon. Steve Collins _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 17 12:55:45 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA25360 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:55:45 -0800 Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (not verified[127.0.0.1]) by inetsrv.callplus.co.nz with MailMarshal (4,0,9,0) id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:26:59 +1300 Received: by inetsrv.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:26:59 +1300 Message-ID: <31E1140DFAD2D54FB91BAD8D475EC17C3EF575@inetsrv.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Top 10 footbag threads from the past 5 years Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:26:49 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Top 10 footbag threads from the past 5 years: 10. Newbies vs. Jobs Notation 9. Use of Live Routine Music controversy. 8. Dodgy add systems 7. Mysterious Return of Paul Munger 6. James Risden: Braggart, or Prodigy? 5. Big Apple Sauce 4. Lavers vs. Other 3. Shooting <> 2 adds. 2. footbag.com And the number 1 footbag thread of the last 5 years: 1. The mysteries of Paradox From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 17 13:07:03 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA25617 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:07:03 -0800 Received: from femail32.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail32.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.22]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA31748 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:54:06 -0800 Received: from acer ([24.67.167.169]) by femail32.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20020117065405.MGIF29992.femail32.sdc1.sfba.home.com@acer>; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:54:05 -0800 Message-ID: <002b01c19f24$03c70c20$a9a74318@ok.shawcable.net> From: "Jeff Lopes" To: "Alex Ibardaloza" , Cc: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Easiest five Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:55:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, Ive hit a move Ive called the 540 RAKE, its a toe set gyro x body rake, I hit it out of a normal clipper set gyro xbdy rake. Toe spinning is tough, good moves Zeke. Toe set spinning DLO is tough. Ive hit Sonic DLO but could never hit toe spinning DLO. Anyway list, now that Im back shreddin again, Ive been trying all sorts of pinching set moves. What has been hit from here? I can do a DLO and a far osis, but Peter Irish was hitting lots from it at worlds and it looks sweet. Let me know whats been done. Jeff Lopes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Ibardaloza" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [freestyle] Easiest five > Dylan Livingston wrote: > >Also, is anyone hitting Toe-mobius? ... I'd call it Toebius if no >one's > >hitting it... > > > W'sup, > > I've been hittng toebius since late 1999. I hit an unsealed one on Dan > Klokow's video, C.I.C. Shred. There is also a clip of me hitting toe set > gyro double legover in the beggining of the tape. It's rare that I ever post > moves I've hit but, "what else I can do?" lol. These are other toe set > gyro/spinning moves I can hit or have hit: > > -toe gyro mirage > -toe gyro dragonfly > -toe set spinning flying clipper > -toe set spinning butterfly (delay and flyer) > -toe set spinning osis > -toe gyro syposium mirage > Boo-ya! Just dont ask me to hit a string... :( > > Laterz, > Zeke > Chicago Inner Circle > > PS > Anyone ever hit toe set vortex? Or toe set Lotus? What about other toe set > spinning pdx moves? > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 17 13:09:08 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA25678 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:09:08 -0800 Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA11305 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 06:32:15 -0800 From: "Ben Scarborough" Received: from NogginMonster@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.25.) id z.92.1ff2e3e9 (15862) for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:32:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from web49.aolmail.aol.com (web49.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.10]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINID61-0117093203; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:32:03 -0500 Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:32:00 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Easiest five To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <92.1ff2e3e9.29783a63@aol.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Csallo Gergo wrote >>I think I also hit a 5 add: TOE > SAME IN > (no plant >>while) OP OUT > OP CLIP >>Kinda like a symposium dimwalk (or exactly, I dont >>know) This is not 5 adds. It is a pixie butterfly done the easy way. Not planting the setting foot makes the timing as well as the path of the bag easier to predict and control. THis move was my first 4 add. I do not believe that an extra add should be given just for hopping straight up to let the bag pass behind your leg. try planting your setting leg. It may make it harder but it will be alot cleaner. Ben Scarborough Augusta Footbag From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 17 13:11:00 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA25737 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:11:00 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f173.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.173]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id HAA14297 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:49:07 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:49:03 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:49:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: Jubal Hume To: airzeke@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Cc: shags125@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] Easiest five Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:49:02 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jan 2002 15:49:03.0060 (UTC) FILETIME=[7CB5E940:01C19F6E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Zeke >Chicago Inner Circle >moves I've hit but, "what else I can do?" lol. These are other toe set >gyro/spinning moves I can hit or have hit: > >-toe gyro mirage >-toe gyro dragonfly >-toe set spinning flying clipper >-toe set spinning butterfly (delay and flyer) >-toe set spinning osis >-toe gyro symposium mirage > Boo-ya! Just don't ask me to hit a string... :( PS >Anyone ever hit toe set vortex? Or toe set Lotus? What about other toe set >spinning pdx moves?>> Don't want to comment on the "easiest five thing"... Just want to add a move to the toe set list below [one I hit at the worlds last year at the Shred on the last night..sadly did not seal it.. from the right toe...symposium [style or actual don't care as it felt synp] atomic mobius..try it you'll like it!..lol..it hurts..But is so PHAT..also try gyro symposium blur...[sealed that though] :-)..hit a crude and unsealed atomic gyro P-torque once...last fall..before my R knee blew out..still recovering..sigh..want to shred soooo badly!! I hit atomic p-torque sort of easy as well..and the harder version..fairy p-torque...hmmm..oh ya...infracting p-torque...[tried it diving too] also infracting voodoo [otherwise called a infracting paradox symposium blur]...well this is not as good as playing I must admit..but it killed some time and sort of sated me for a bit..[not really]..lol..Ciao All remember to Check out the website all http://WWW.FOOTBAGVIDEO.COM _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 17 13:43:28 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA27662 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:43:28 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f56.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA29558 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:02:35 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:02:33 -0800 Received: from 64.0.99.201 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 05:02:33 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.0.99.201] From: "Simon Hughes" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Sore legs Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:02:33 +1300 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jan 2002 05:02:33.0885 (UTC) FILETIME=[2C8F84D0:01C19F14] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey'all I have really sore legs(Knees&Ankle)from playing footbag, I just want to know a solution to stop this? Should i be doing some stretches? Should i Limit my freestlye time?Should I play on something soft? Or should i continue to be on Panadol and pain killers while i play? :) /Hoping someone has had the same troubles and knows the cure to get back into pain-free freestyle. Thanks. Simon. (New Zealand nationals will be on the 2nd and 3rd of March, please mail me if you have a query) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jan 20 11:26:30 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA22816 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:26:30 -0800 Received: from bergman.umail.ucsb.edu (bergman.umail.ucsb.edu [128.111.151.203]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA31166 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:57:05 -0800 Received: from http by bergman.umail.ucsb.edu with local (Exim 3.16 #3) id 16RLSy-0000gg-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:57:04 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] That crazy quantum set Message-ID: <1011308224.3c4756c0a5036@secureweb.umail.ucsb.edu> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:57:04 -0800 (PST) From: Jeremy Mirken MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org SO list. . . I know there are lots of you shredders who consider yourselves proficient at the quantum set or the "toe mirage set (described for beginners)." I would like to know what variations have been hit off of this set. But, I dont want any butterfly moves. Has anyone ever hit quantum spinning or quantum gyro moves? How about quantum same paradon? Im lookin to expand my repertoire of quantum moves. . .its an awesome set. lates, Senor Grommet From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jan 20 11:27:41 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA22863 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:27:41 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f3.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA10886 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:27:08 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:15:26 -0800 Received: from 208.141.176.11 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:15:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [208.141.176.11] From: "Jim Penske" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Possible new set? Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:15:26 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jan 2002 01:15:26.0683 (UTC) FILETIME=[9C8742B0:01C19FBD] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yo Freestylers!! I've been messing around with a new set lately. Its a frigid osis nuclear. Start by doing a left foot osis, set straight up instead of scooping through. Then bring your right leg around the bag from out to in like a nuclear. So far the only thing I've hit out of it is butterfly (frigid paradox legbeater). Anyone else hitting this? shred on, Jim Penske P.S. the easiest five for me is toe set quadruple ducking toe stall. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jan 20 11:30:58 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA22958 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:30:58 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f191.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.191]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA14133 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:33:02 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:32:58 -0800 Received: from 216.161.88.85 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 02:32:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [216.161.88.85] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Job's Notation modification suggestions Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 02:32:57 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jan 2002 02:32:58.0022 (UTC) FILETIME=[70F14460:01C19FC8] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve Goldberg wrote: >Where has this list gone? I'll rejoin sometime soon and create some >controversy, >'cause obviously it's too boring right now. :-) Well Steve, I'll do my best. >From personal experience and from the nice feedback that some of you sent me, I see 3 major problems with Job's notation: rakes and pendulums, spins and dexterity location. In this mail I'm only going to be dealing with dexterities. Before you read any further please keep in mind that all of the changes I'm proposing are OPTIONAL, if they are accepted you will still be able to write Job's exactly as before, but you will also have the ability to be much more specific. 1. A dex done with the lower leg is marked with a "," a dex with the upper leg is marked with a "'". for example: toe > opp out' > opp out' > opp clip = "hippy" legbeater toe > opp out, > opp out' > opp clip = "leggy" legbeater clip > opp out' > opp clip = butterfly clip > opp out, > opp clip = "reverse whirl" 2. A dexterity done while the bag is on the way up ends with [up] a dexterity done while the bag is on the way down ends with [down]. For example: clip > opp in' [up] > opp out' [down] > opp clip = ripwalk toe > opp in, [up] > [no plant while] opp in' [down] > opp toe = quantum symposium mirage toe > opp in' [down] > [no plant while] opp in, [down] > opp toe = backside symposium toe blur 3. When both legs dex the bag at once (i.e. shooting, dasein, stomping) instead of putting a ">" between elements use a "~". For example: clip > opp in' [up] > opp out, [up] > opp out' [down] > opp clip = blurry leg beater clip > opp in' [up] ~ opp out' [up] > opp out' [down] > opp clip = shooting butterfly Please keep in mind, none of theses changes are meant to show uniqueness, only to better describe the motions used to complete a move. A reverse whirl may very well be the same as a butterfly, but the approach to doing both is different, just as the approach to doing a "hippy" or "leggy" style legbeater is different. Also I repeat, these are all optional changes, if they are accepted you will still be able to notate moves as before, but if you wish, you will have the ability to much more accurately describe a move. -Andrew _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jan 20 11:31:38 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA22992 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:31:38 -0800 Received: from pd4mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (h24-71-223-10.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA21012 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:32:17 -0800 Received: from pd4mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr2so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.213]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GQ400MMS9XNM0@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:32:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml3so (pn2ml3so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.147]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GQ40090A9XNU5@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:32:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from k1 (h24-70-216-74.gv.shawcable.net [24.70.216.74]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with SMTP id <0GQ4009BM9XNUB@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:32:11 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:34:54 -0800 From: Allan Haggett Subject: Re: [freestyle] Sore legs To: Simon Hughes Cc: freestyle@list.footbag.org Message-id: <001901c19fd9$7a48de40$6601a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Simon, You wrote: > I have really sore legs(Knees&Ankle)from playing footbag, First of all, the type of foot wear you use is most likely your problem. Original Recipe(new rubber or not) Laver's have a very poor support system, depending on your body type(or maybe for all body types). Even if they are supporting you all right, it is possible that the stock insoles aren't providing enough cushion for your playing style. Arch support plays a huge role(possibly the largest) in your overall posture and alignment, so if that is off, then everything else will be too. Maybe try Millenium's... Ellis recommends The Adidas Top Sala(indoor soccer) http://www.flipsider.com/docs/shoes.htm > I just want to know a solution to stop this? Proper shoes and/or modifications(if the problem is chronic, maybe see a sports-pediatrist about it) would likely go a long way to improving your situation. I highly recommend acupunture as a means of restoring proper blood flow to the region so that it can heal correctly and not cause more problems later. > Should i be doing some stretches? Stretching is good, but in a manner of speaking, freestyle IS stretching; so don't over-do it. IMHO, warming up is more important; and while stretching achieves this to a degree, a good cardio workout pre-session gets the blood flowing and the muscles prepared for the harsher movements that shred demands. > Should i Limit my freestlye time? If the pain is persistant, only happens when you play and continues after you correct your footwear problem(assuming this is a problem), then yes, either limit the amount of time you play, or tone down HOW you play. If you have a high impact, "dissection oriented" style, then try learning a more fluid style(watch tons of Peter Irish footage). There are tons of cool moves that require very little impact or stress. It'll only help your overall game to skool other styles too. > Should I play on something soft? Rather than something soft(which is potentially far more dangerous than a hard surface) you should find a surface that absorbs as much shock as possible. Many hardware stores carry squares of black rubber that lock together to form a surface for use in front of work benches wear people stand all day. Get 3 square metres of this stuff, and shred away. > continue to be on Panadol and pain killers while i play? :) That shit isn't good for you. Period. It shouldn't take an MD to tell you that you shouldn't use pain killers for this purpose. If you're in pain while you play, then your doing something wrong which you need to address. Masking it with pain killers will only make your situation worse in the long wrong, as well as making you much more succeptable to injury as you play. Besides, they'll dull your reflexes!! Hope this helps :) Dizzy www.freefootbag.org From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jan 20 11:32:04 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA23014 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:32:04 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f197.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.197]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA21979 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:57:36 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:46:04 -0800 Received: from 203.0.238.3 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 04:46:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [203.0.238.3] From: "Brendan Erskine" To: shags125@hotmail.com, freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Easiest five Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 04:46:03 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jan 2002 04:46:04.0355 (UTC) FILETIME=[092AF930:01C19FDB] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Personally I think paradox da da is the easiest 5, only if you hit it correctly though. The problem is that most people i've seen hit this, including myself often hit it more like a paradox refraction. Although i'm far from perfecting it, I also think shooting opposite osis will be an easy 5. Shred on Brendan. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jan 20 11:32:40 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA23032 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:32:40 -0800 Received: from web20704.mail.yahoo.com (web20704.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.177]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id XAA26588 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 23:52:04 -0800 Message-ID: <20020118075203.969.qmail@web20704.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.136.157] by web20704.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 23:52:03 PST Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 23:52:03 -0800 (PST) From: lon smith Subject: Re: [freestyle] Who's hit what 2 To: Dylan Livingston , freestyle@list.footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, Dylan I have hit > Gyro Pdx Barrage > Triple Pixie (Trixie?) > > Gyro Ripwalk > Toe Flurry > Double spinning Mirage I don't know if anyone hit spinning doubble mirage before Colorado Symposium I I don't know if anyone hit doubble spinning mirage before thankgiving 2001. Anyhow those are nice moves. Jubal has hit surging ducking paradox torque(symposium maybe) Signed Liquidlawn __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jan 20 11:33:22 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA23081 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:33:22 -0800 Received: from web11605.mail.yahoo.com (web11605.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.57]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id BAA29208 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:50:24 -0800 Message-ID: <20020118095024.33249.qmail@web11605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [172.182.173.245] by web11605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:50:24 PST Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:50:24 -0800 (PST) From: Ellis Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Adidas Lavermillenium II To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey footbag people, I hope none of you follow any one person's advice (mine included). Jubal Hume's message on the Milleniums really bothered me. Absolutely no personal offense intended, Jubal. Jubal Hume wrote: > Well I have not played in them...but it looks... Hold up. How can a person offer advice for or against something if s/he doesn't have the proper, even basic criteria to form an argument. > ...they have the same prob as the older millenniums...the instep [arch] is rounded Well, I have played in both Millenium I and II models, and I conclude without a hint of doubt that the inside sweet spot of the M-II is far superior to the M-I. I had a real problem with spins and stepping moves in the M-Is, but the M-IIs were perfect for all my sets, stalls, and kicks. I do think the M-IIs are a good shoe, better than the M-I, in quality and playability. However, it is my personal opinion that Milleniums are better for larger frame people. For reference, I am 5'8" 145 lbs, and I eventually found the M-IIs to be too bulky/heavy for my style. I don't know if it's my size, speed, dex windows, or what, but they just don't do it for me. Believe it or not, after playing in more than ten different types of shoes in my 6 years footbagging, I am currently playing in Classic Lavers (Chinas, of course). I'm playing at the top of my game once again- it's been a long time- no more skateboarding for me. > ...if (the shoes) weigh more they will make you stronger...and this is good..is it not?... Well, not entirely. If a shoe weighs too much, say 16-18 ounces (for footbagging), then you will destroy your joints!!! That's real and undeniable. Let's not even talk about cushioning and support. Personally, I want my energy spent toward playing my best for the full session, not building more muscles- I can do that with cross-training. Simply shredding hard every other day will give you all the strength you could possibly need anyway. Cool, hope you've hear another side... the flipside, from the flipsider, Ellis Piltz Flipsider.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jan 20 11:34:09 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA23112 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:34:09 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f126.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.126]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id HAA04017 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 07:58:29 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 07:58:24 -0800 Received: from 206.15.253.3 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:58:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [206.15.253.3] From: "Randy Magliocca" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Easiest five Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:58:24 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jan 2002 15:58:24.0976 (UTC) FILETIME=[F60D3D00:01C1A038] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ya sym. is easier. In fact it's a whole different move. its called dada curve. It's one of the easiest four adds. Later. Randy"The Magician"Magliocca >From: "Ben Scarborough" >To: >Subject: Re: [freestyle] Easiest five >Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:32:00 EST > >Csallo Gergo wrote > >>I think I also hit a 5 add: TOE > SAME IN > (no plant >>while) OP OUT > >OP CLIP > >>Kinda like a symposium dimwalk (or exactly, I dont >>know) > >This is not 5 adds. It is a pixie butterfly done the easy way. Not >planting the setting foot makes the timing as well as the path of the bag >easier to predict and control. > >THis move was my first 4 add. I do not believe that an extra add should be >given just for hopping straight up to let the bag pass behind your leg. > >try planting your setting leg. It may make it harder but it will be alot >cleaner. > > Ben Scarborough >Augusta Footbag > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jan 20 11:35:43 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA23200 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:35:43 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f69.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.69]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA07875 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:28:11 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:28:11 -0800 Received: from 206.15.253.3 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:28:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [206.15.253.3] From: "Randy Magliocca" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Ripwalk record? Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:28:11 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jan 2002 17:28:11.0356 (UTC) FILETIME=[809599C0:01C1A045] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list, I was just wondering if any1 has the world record for rip walk. If you do plz tell me. I cant find it anyware. Later. Randy"The Magician"Magliocca _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jan 20 11:52:16 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA23759 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:52:16 -0800 Received: from I (brat.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA23756 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:52:16 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:52:27 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Job's Notation modification suggestions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:32 AM -0800 1/18/02, Andrew McCargar wrote: >1. A dex done with the lower leg is marked with a "," a dex with the >upper leg is marked with a "'". for example: >... >2. A dexterity done while the bag is on the way up ends with [up] a >dexterity done while the bag is on the way down ends with [down]. >For example: >... >3. When both legs dex the bag at once (i.e. shooting, dasein, >stomping) instead of putting a ">" between elements use a "~". For >example: Sweet, I'd like to add "foot position" in there, too, using ; for cranked and : for straight. And maybe it'd be helpful to include whether your abs are crunched too. Let's use } for abs crunched and ) for abs uncrunched. Add to that, which moves are hit while breathing in versus breathing out. I like to use O for breath in and K for breath out. (Holding breath just absense of either of these symbols.) So, let's see. With your changes to Jobs' that'd make blurry whirl something like: clip;)O > op in dex}': > op out dex},K: > op clip;) Whew. I know at least one Davidson who would object to this. :-) But seriously, while I think Andrew's got a valid point, I also remember back to when Ben (not to worship the guy or anything) came up with his notation (which I named Jobs' notation much to Ben's chagrin). His goal wasn't really to describe every muscular movement (especially not contraction of various sphincters) or every micro motion or subtle difference in dexterity option. It was instead to *simplify* things to basic gross concepts -- such as: which set, which leg, which direction, which catch. His thesis, which I think is reasonably sound, was that you could describe most moves using this notation and the rest (the details) would be obvious (and therefore not relevant to document in this particular system). I understand the desire to go down deep and describe every different move in terms of the exact way you hit it, but I think it's difficult to do because some things are really specific to the player. It's important, therefore, in a system meant to describe moves in a gross player-neutral way, to distill all those little concepts into much the biggest "chunks" possible. So, while I think I agree that where your leg crosses the trajectory of the bag is a fundamental differentiator in moves, I'm not sure it's the only one not currently represented in Jobs' notation, nor that the notation was really meant to extend to represent all of them. I'd like to see a higher-level representation in the notation of "sets". This whole concept of doing tricks on the way "up" versus on the way "down" to me is core to what differentiates tricks from each other. I'd like to explore that more. For example, torque (as a basic example, I can think of many more). With torque, you do the dex on the way down. Most people agree that "crispy style" is not really torque, but rather stepping osis, which has the same jobs' notation but where the dex is done on the way up, splitting the trick into a "set" (dex on the way up) and another trick (osis on the way down). Should we not consider this as equally relevant (or more relevant) in differentiating moves in a notation like Ben's? Just some thoughts to add to the thread (thanks, Andrew). Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 22 10:56:13 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA13343 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:56:13 -0800 Received: from I (brat.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA13336 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:56:13 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:56:14 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] List Policies Reminder Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Members of the freestyle e-mail list, This is a periodic reminder of the freestyle discussion list policies. Please take the time to read this message as it will save you, me, and my volunteers on footbag.org a lot of time. (1) No advertisements: Don't even think of blatantly advertising for products or services for your own personal gain, or for that of anyone else. It's fine to edify and inform people of products, rate them and discuss them, etc., but it becomes a problem if it turns into a formal endorsement or advertisement. I run this service (with lots of help), under the auspices of a non-profit corporation, and with resources that cost me over $150 a month at the current rate. I will not have the list turn into a marketplace. I will not be responsible for transactions that go bad as a result of a member of my website or this e-mail list entering into any financial interaction with any other player or member. Repetitive, "subliminal" ads are NOT okay. Please just be *honest* and if a discussion comes up that involves your website or your products or services, feel free to discuss it openly. But do not annoy list members with constant mentions of your favorite websites or companies. (2) No HTML mail ("rich text" in Hotmail, default in AOL 6.0, Outlook): Please (PLEASE) don't use HTML mail (ever). Turn it off immediately, once and for all. HTML mail is stupid in general, but especially problematic for the footbag discussion lists. HTML was not designed to be used for e-mail, and many e-mail programs do not handle it correctly. More importantly, fully half of our members are on the digest version of the list, which puts all mail in-line into a huge message every day and mails it to them, and HTML mail simply doesn't work (it looks like garbage to non-computer geeks). I personally hate the digest and am thinking about killing it because of all the problems it causes. But since we still have so many people using it, please respect them and only post *plain text*. Otherwise, the digest will be completely illegible. If you post HTML, the moderator may ignore you, but usually will reply with a BOUNCE message to tell you to fix it. But you have to figure out how. The moderator can't spend the time to teach everyone how to use e-mail. You people on AOL 6.0, please call AOL and complain and/or ask them how to disable HTML for your outgoing mail. Hotmail users need to always make sure the "rich text format" checkbox on your "compose" screen is *UNCHECKED*. (Mac users on Hotmail don't have to worry. It does the right thing.) Never send mail to the list in "rich text". Plain text means e-mail with absolutely no mark-up -- no bold-facing, no underlining, no font changes, nothing. Just plain, simple, text. (3) Rejection: Expect your post to be rejected if you haven't read the policies here and are not adhering to them. If you are rejected (with a "BOUNCE" message), DO NOT argue with the moderator. Try to understand the issue, and feel free to offer a compromise, but do *NOT* argue. It serves no purpose but to create animosity. The moderator is simply trying to help keep the conversation on topic and within the expectations of the bulk of the list's membership, to keep this forum as efficient and informational as possible. This is not a free-for-all. When the moderator rejects a posting it is *not* personal, and you should not treat it that way nor should you make it that way by arguing with the moderator. We no longer guarantee to write e-mails explaining the reasons for rejecting posts. It just becomes too much of a burden to get into a discussion with every person. If your message is not suitable for the list, it simply won't show up. For newer members, we'll still give some feedback to help you understand the guidelines because they are not all clearly documented. For you regulars who keep getting bounced, and you know who you are, sorry but if your message doesn't show up and you see other messages showing up with a send date after yours, that means it was rejected. If you don't like this new policy or any of the policies we're going to begin enforcing, we urge you to go start your own list. (4) Thinking: Please don't reply willy-nilly to posts on the list. Think it out, decide whether or not you want to post the message to the entire list or just to a person you're talking to. And then, carefully consider whether your message will be rejected. It wastes the moderator's time and yours if you post a message that will be rejected. And you know who you are, those of you who have the same types of posts rejected over and over again, so please cool it. (5) Signatures and From lines: Use your real full name (first and last) in the From: line of your outgoing e-mail (you must configure this in your mail preferences). Use proper capitalization in your name. (E.g., if your name is John Smith, put John Smith in your name setting on your e-mail program; do *not* put "john smith".) ONLY users of AOL will be allowed to leave their names off the From: header because many AOL users can't set this up. But all AOL users *must* put their full name in the signature. Not just first name. Both names. No exceptions. With proper capitalization. ("Proper capitalization" does NOT mean ALL-CAPS. It means *proper* capitalization. Everyone should have learned this in second grade. If you are not old enough to have gone to second grade, you are not allowed to post to the list.) (6) Read up before posting: Do not post any messages to the list until you're *completely* caught up! That means, before you post a single message, read *all* the mail on the list that has arrived since you last read mail. Then, reply to the thread(s) you have replies for, and in some cases take the opportunity to reply to multiple messages on the *same thread* in the *same message*. Don't rapid-fire 6 messages on the same thread the same night, replying to everyone else's posts. That's just a pain for everyone. But be warned if you post a single reply to multiple different threads (see 7 below), you will be rejected. (7) Don't be lazy: a. Replying -- Don't include the entire message you're replying to in your post. Cut it down to just the bit you're actually referring to, to give folks context (in fact, this is requested, see 7 below). b. Posting -- Don't post questions that you can easily find the answer to yourself. Don't ask me or anyone else either, before you check the website. The best thing to do before you begin posting is to read *everything* at http://www.footbag.org/faq (F.A.Q. stands for "frequently-asked questions"), as well as on the freestyle section at http://www.footbag.org/freestyle -- and of course the footbag.org website is the repository for most of the information people frequently want relating to footbag. For example, don't post "what kind of shoe do people use?" or "what kind of footbag do people use?", and especially not "what kind of music do people listen to when they play?" The first two are easily answered by reading the information online; the third is just plain annoying. (8) Give context for follow-up messages: Similarly, don't reply without giving context! Always use the same subject line as the thing to which you're replying, and include a snippet of the specific point to which you're replying (and not the whole message, please). Use the *REPLY* function of your mail program, which will help you. Don't manually type Subject: lines because you'll probably get it wrong. For the threading feature of many people's mail readers to work properly, the subject lines have to be exactly right. Otherwise, if you randomly change the subject line every time you post, nobody can keep track of the conversation. Especially not a year from now when they're perusing the archives. (Has everyone seen the archives? It helps a lot to do that to get some idea why this matters. http://list.footbag.org/ ) (9) Stick to one thread at a time: Don't combine two threads into one. Keep them separate so people can follow the various conversations (see 7 above). Use your reply button/command to reply to messages on the list, so that the Subject: header is correctly reformatted to keep threads together as described above. (10) Keep your e-mail address up to date: Don't post to the list from an e-mail address in the From: line that is not subscribed to the list. If you change e-mail addresses, you must update your list membership (see http://list.footbag.org/). (11) Post to list addresses only when necessary: Don't write the list itself when you can write a more specific address. a. If you want to talk to someone and you can't remember their address, don't post to the list saying, "Hey, so-and-so, if you're out there, write me." The member directory at http://www.footbag.org/members/ is your best source of contact information, and/or the list archives which show the e-mail address of everyone posting (at http://list.footbag.org/). b. If you want to unsubscribe or have an administrative question regarding the list, for goodness' sake just ask the administrator (me) directly. If people don't know my e-mail address by now, ... Also, don't be afraid that Derrick or I will bite your head off. Just expect it, and it won't hurt so much. :-) c. If you are replying to a message, never send your mail without looking back over it, seeing if the freestyle list is cc'ed or not, and only cc it if you are really sure! Many messages can just go privately and don't need to go to the list. Consider using private e-mail to follow up public posts, as opposed to completely open conversations. (Visualize it this way: every time you post to the freestyle list, you're walking up to the podium in a large auditorium and seizing the microphone. Vs. just walking over to someone who has just spoken over the microphone and continuing a private conversation on the sidelines.) -- These are not the only rules, but the most important ones. We reserve the right to refuse to post messages for any reason. Don't take this the wrong way, but if you're not happy with how we moderate this discussion group, feel free to create your own. Thanks. Steve and the all-volunteer staff of footbag.org From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 22 17:07:34 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA26290 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:07:34 -0800 Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA26227 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 13:14:30 -0800 From: "Matthew Cross" Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.25.) id z.14e.78a9b21 (15908) for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:14:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from web40.aolmail.aol.com (web40.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.1]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINID99-0120161406; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:14:06 -0500 Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:14:06 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Job's Notation modification suggestions To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <14e.78a9b21.297c8d1e@aol.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey List, I think Andrew's ideas are great. I think jobs notation could most definitely use more specificity, and it looks like he's figured out a relatively easy way to go about getting that specificity. Granted, it makes things a little more complicated, but it also seems kinda like an optional step. It gets my vote... -Matthew Cross P.S.: Is X-Dex officially in the system or not? From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 22 17:08:14 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA26305 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:08:14 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f112.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.112]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA28238 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 13:52:14 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 13:52:14 -0800 Received: from 202.180.83.6 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 21:52:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [202.180.83.6] From: "kenny stuart" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] China Lavers Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 21:52:14 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jan 2002 21:52:14.0505 (UTC) FILETIME=[B8A9C990:01C1A1FC] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey List, Does anybody know where i can get my hands on a pair of the China Lavers?? Ive searched abit, but cant find them. Any feed back would be much appreciated. Thanks Kenny. (shape-shifter) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 22 17:10:06 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA26411 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:10:06 -0800 Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA00758 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 15:56:59 -0800 From: Josh Andersen Received: from JKO112@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.25.) id z.e.18ce10a3 (4596) for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:56:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:56:46 EST Subject: [freestyle] Lavers and sets To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ok to respond to the conflict over lavers. a friend of mine and I have tried both the original lavers and Laver millenium 2s. both of us greatly prefered the originals. i think it was mostly because the sweet spot on the inside is better (for us at least) and they are lighter. maybe we didn't have enough time to really get used to the 2s but that is our opinion. about the sets, steve pointed out how a torque is different from a stepping osis. why then is a blur not a stepping pdx mirage? (i looked at the "moves on video" section under freestyle and under blur it did say "stepping pdx mirage, but under torque it said "stepping opposite osis") just a thought Josh ps. has anyone hit triage to osis? that would be... incredible. thanks for your time From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 22 17:11:28 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA26481 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:11:28 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f22.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.22]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA15304 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 01:06:05 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 01:05:57 -0800 Received: from 216.161.89.35 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:05:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [216.161.89.35] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Job's Notation modification suggestions Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:05:56 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jan 2002 09:05:57.0552 (UTC) FILETIME=[D6AD4300:01C1A25A] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi List, Steve wrote (sorry for super condensing) >His thesis, which I think is reasonably sound, was that you could describe >most moves using this notation and the rest (the details) would be obvious >(and therefore not relevant to document in this particular system). Ok, I guess this is my fault for not being clearer about what I was trying to do. The problem is that some differences are not obvious. The difference between blazing and stepping is huge, but are currently imposible to notate. Instead of making Job's more complicated I tried to come up with OPTIONAL additions to make it more speciffic. I was trying to only notate changes that affect how you aproach a move. I feel "hippy" and "leggy" leg beater are the same move, but the difference of HOW you do it are hugely important. On the other hand shooting butterfly and blurry legbeater are very obviously not the same move, but are currently notated the same. If I'm the only one who thinks this is a problem, please let me know. -Andrew > >I understand the desire to go down deep and describe every different >move in terms of the exact way you hit it, but I think it's difficult >to do because some things are really specific to the player. It's >important, therefore, in a system meant to describe moves in a gross >player-neutral way, to distill all those little concepts into much >the biggest "chunks" possible. > >So, while I think I agree that where your leg crosses the trajectory >of the bag is a fundamental differentiator in moves, I'm not sure >it's the only one not currently represented in Jobs' notation, nor >that the notation was really meant to extend to represent all of them. > >I'd like to see a higher-level representation in the notation of >"sets". This whole concept of doing tricks on the way "up" versus on >the way "down" to me is core to what differentiates tricks from each >other. I'd like to explore that more. For example, torque (as a basic >example, I can think of many more). With torque, you do the dex on >the way down. Most people agree that "crispy style" is not really >torque, but rather stepping osis, which has the same jobs' notation >but where the dex is done on the way up, splitting the trick into a >"set" (dex on the way up) and another trick (osis on the way down). >Should we not consider this as equally relevant (or more relevant) in >differentiating moves in a notation like Ben's? > >Just some thoughts to add to the thread (thanks, Andrew). > > Steve Andrew McCargar, ALL work and NO play makes Andrew go insane ALL work and NO play makes Andrew go insane ALL work and NO play makes Andrew go insane ALL work, and NO play makes Andrew go insane. ALL work and NO play makes Andrew go insane. ALL work and NO play makes Andrew go insane. ALL work and NO play makes Andrew go insane. ALL work and NO play makes Andrew go insane _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 22 17:14:04 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA26549 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:14:04 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f22.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.22]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id DAA17916 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 03:44:04 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 03:32:06 -0800 Received: from 141.20.128.48 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:32:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [141.20.128.48] From: "Marc Inzinger" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Job's Notation modification suggestions Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:32:05 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jan 2002 11:32:06.0440 (UTC) FILETIME=[41576280:01C1A26F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I do really like Andrew´s optional additions. Its great to see the difference whether you do an illusion butterfly or an atomic butterfly which most people call usally leg beater. I think they are totally different moves as are reverse whirl and butterfly. That goes for a lot of moves of course. So this addition makes jobs more complex but in a positive way because not using the additional is still "enough" to make people understand what move you are talking about. I agree with Steve that you should also be able to see the difference between stepping opp osis and torque. I think his other ideas , as breathing we can let fall ;). schreibt Fussjongleur Marc _________________________________________________________________ MSN Fotos ist der einfachste Weg, Ihre Fotos auszudrucken und anderen Benutzern zur Verfügung zu stellen: http://photos.msn.de/support/worldwide.aspx From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 22 17:16:14 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA26667 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:16:14 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f208.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.208]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id FAA19389 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 05:31:44 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 05:31:44 -0800 Received: from 217.5.85.121 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:31:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [217.5.85.121] From: "Fabian Kollakowski" To: ezshredz@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Adidas Lavermillenium II Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:31:43 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jan 2002 13:31:44.0047 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7874BF0:01C1A27F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org bonjour madames et monsioeurs, >I do think the M-IIs are a good shoe, better than >the M-I, in quality and playability. However, it >is my personal opinion that Milleniums are better >for larger frame people. [snip] >Believe it or not, after playing in more than ten >different types of shoes in my 6 years >footbagging, I am currently playing in Classic >Lavers (Chinas, of course). I'm playing at the >top of my game once again. Didnt you write on flipsider.com that you "grew to hate this shoe"? :) Anyway, im having problems with my knees etc. as well, playing in the old (not china) lavers with new inlays. I'd really like to buy new shoes with more stability and cushoning, but i got no clue which shoe to get. The problem is that im not able to try to shred in different shoes before buying them,since im from germany, so id really appreciate it if some of you experienced players could share their experiences with me. (chinas?millenium IIs?...) I know its a kind of weird question because im asking for a subjective opinion,but you would help my anyway. thanks fabian _________________________________________________________________ Mit MSN Fotos können Sie problemlos Ihre Fotos ausdrucken und anderen Benutzern zur Verfügung stellen: http://photos.msn.de/support/worldwide.aspx From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 22 17:17:56 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA26737 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:17:56 -0800 Received: from web11608.mail.yahoo.com (web11608.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id KAA27009 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 10:27:49 -0800 Message-ID: <20020121182749.8782.qmail@web11608.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [172.183.158.66] by web11608.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 10:27:49 PST Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 10:27:49 -0800 (PST) From: Ellis Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Who's hit what 2 To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org From: lon smith > Jubal has hit surging ducking paradox torque (symposium maybe) Wait a sec, this is a bit far off; that is NOT A SURGING SET. I've seen that weird reverse infracting (or whatever) set that Jubal does, and it is far from a surging set- a full 2 adds difference. If you all want a good example of the Surging set, then see the last trick on "The LIONS DEN" footbag video. Chad hits the truest Surge of all time! That thing Jubal does is cool- nothing against it- just don't confuse it with a Surging set, please. If he hit the move Lon was talking about, then there a two separate moves happening: the reverse infraction thing to an (inside set) Ducking Torque. Signed, Eternal Ellis __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 22 17:19:10 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA26789 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:19:10 -0800 Received: from web20703.mail.yahoo.com (web20703.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.176]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id UAA18852 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:25:24 -0800 Message-ID: <20020122042523.63707.qmail@web20703.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.97.92.75] by web20703.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:25:23 PST Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:25:23 -0800 (PST) From: john kingi Subject: Re: [freestyle] Job's Notation modification suggestions To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. I think part of the fun of footbag is trying moves differently, i.e. trying a variation of hip dex's then a series of knee/ancle dex's in the same moves to see which are more energy economic, quicker... Personaly I don't see a problem with the current jobs notation. I'm pretty sure that most players can work out the difference in how the dex's (ect) were done by tryin the moves them selves. Anyway I think the more changes we make to the various theory systems this sport has the more danger there is of running into more problems that require more changes. Cheers for listening. Later. Johnny (freestyle warrior) --- Steve Goldberg wrote: > At 2:32 AM -0800 1/18/02, Andrew McCargar wrote: > >1. A dex done with the lower leg is marked with a > "," a dex with the > >upper leg is marked with a "'". for example: > >... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 22 17:21:21 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA26955 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:21:21 -0800 Received: from relay-3m.club-internet.fr (relay-3m.club-internet.fr [195.36.216.172]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA25095 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 23:38:10 -0800 Received: from balle (lns02m-4-116.w.club-internet.fr [212.194.15.116]) by relay-3m.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 8FE9616B8 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 08:38:00 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002301c1a318$196cfc40$740fc2d4@balle> From: "Maxime Boucoiran" To: References: <200201202326.PAA31656@llic.net> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Job's Notation modification suggestions Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 08:40:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org here are my two cents worth: it's true that Andrew's modifications are interesting, and yes it's true as Steve pointed out that they also do complicate job's a little bit. Here is what I suggest for the footbag going up/down debate (how to seperate the set from the rest in job's notation): write the trick down in Job's normally and in between the set and the rest, just add an extra ' > '. Examples: ripwalk: Clip > op in >> op out > op clip shooting same side clipper: clip > op in > op out >> op clip toe set blur: toe > op in >> op in > op toe On tricks were it is hard to tell (example: whirling swirl: does the whirl come before or after the ball stops rising), well just stick to good ol' job's as it is currently. I don't think that this is very hard to understand or implement... now is it useful? later all, Max From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 22 17:23:11 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA27075 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:23:11 -0800 Received: from pd5mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (h24-71-223-13.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.13]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id CAA28423 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 02:05:54 -0800 Received: from pd4mr4so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr4so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.215]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQC009PD41QM4@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 03:05:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml3so (pn2ml3so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.147]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQC00K6441QBO@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 03:05:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from k1 (h24-70-216-74.gv.shawcable.net [24.70.216.74]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with SMTP id <0GQC000CQ41P7F@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 03:05:50 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 02:08:57 -0800 From: Allan Haggett Subject: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Message-id: <002801c1a32c$ce5a56c0$6601a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I would like to get some input so as to clarify the difference between Surging and Infracting. It is my (somewhat conflicted) contention that: Surge = 2 adds Infraction = 1 add Is Infraction 'unique enough' from a Surge to be considered another set? Or is it just a the'd Surge? If it is unique, I would also contend that Infraction combines the two distinct elements from Surge(spin > dex) into one, thereby lowering it's component value by 1. With a Surge the bag MUST leave your foot before you spin(or really, really, really soon after), with a complete 180, THEN a dex, then whatever move you've still got the time and balance to pull. Infraction is a turn of the head away from being an Artic(Frigid Osis Pixie) set. I liked Scott D.'s name for Surging [same]Osis: Nobius Allan www.freefootbag.org From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 22 17:33:16 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA27674 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:33:16 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f138.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.138]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA10690 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 09:52:51 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 09:52:47 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:52:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: Jubal Hume To: lonamithicus@yahoo.com, shags125@hotmail.com, freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Infracting-ducking-p-torque Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 09:52:47 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2002 17:52:47.0699 (UTC) FILETIME=[9A34AA30:01C1A36D] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Jubal has hit surging ducking paradox torque(symposium >maybe) > >Signed Liquidlawn Thanks for saying this Lon... :-) I did hit it..but it was more like an infraction set-ducking p-torque.. the first dex was as I did the gyro.... [or is it a dive cause it was back to the infraction side?] [or is it perhaps a paradox duck??????] but yah..was done...not sealed er anything though...YET..sigh..but it was clean..and will try to get it on vid soon....... also hit infraction-ducking-paradoxing-symposium whirl too...[sort of like a infraction [set] ducking P-dada ending in a symposium whirl.. hit this last summer... I have the clip set-paradox [dex] symposium whirl on the video "A Day At The Office" that is posted on our site.. http://freefootbag.org/misc/day.htm {Many Thanks to Allan H. for the great editing}... AND DO NOT DO PAIN KILLERS that are sold by greedy doctors while you SHRED...seek GOOD medical advice...and THINK....do I want to play for years more?..or not?....shit man...Change what you do !..............no drugs will help you play or take away the pain..they just MASK IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLAY SMART EVERYONE Jubal _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 23 21:42:24 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id VAA00782 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:42:24 -0800 Received: from malibu.cc.uga.edu (malibu.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.103]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA31584; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:12:53 -0800 Received: from archa9.cc.uga.edu (arch9.cc.uga.edu) by malibu.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00810B6A@malibu.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:12:52 -0500 Received: from integer.math.uga.edu (host-209-214-96-149.ahn.bellsouth.net [209.214.96.149]) by archa9.cc.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA30834; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:12:45 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020122214627.00a817d0@imap.arches.uga.edu> X-Sender: integer@imap.arches.uga.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:46:41 -0500 To: Steve Goldberg , freestyle@footbag.org From: Alex Faber Subject: Re: [freestyle] Job's Notation modification suggestions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve Goldberg wrote: >Add to that, which moves are hit while breathing in versus breathing out. >I like to use O for breath in and K for breath out. (Holding breath just >absense of either of these symbols.) Very witty, Steve. But jeez, "absense?" Learn to spell. :) >So, let's see. With your changes to Jobs' that'd make blurry whirl >something like: > > clip;)O > op in dex}': > op out dex},K: > op clip;) This must have taken you about 10 minutes to figure out. I'll give you credit for trying, although I'm not going to double check it. >I'd like to see a higher-level representation in the notation of "sets". >This whole concept of doing tricks on the way "up" versus on the way >"down" to me is core to what differentiates tricks from each other. I'd >like to explore that more. For example, torque (as a basic example, I can >think of many more). With torque, you do the dex on the way down. Most >people agree that "crispy style" is not really torque, but rather stepping >osis, which has the same jobs' notation but where the dex is done on the >way up, splitting the trick into a "set" (dex on the way up) and another >trick (osis on the way down). Should we not consider this as equally >relevant (or more relevant) in differentiating moves in a notation like Ben's? I agree completely with this. One of my favorite tricks is toe set same side blender, which unfortunately looks like pixie same osis in jobs' notation. I could care less what the jobs' is, but some people are just fantastically pedantic about adhering to the principle "if it looks the same in jobs', it must be the same move." I've gotten into arguments over this on many occasions. I'm tired of arguing, though. I think I'll just freestyle quietly from now on. Alex Faber GSP 2002 (Good Spelling Posse) From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 23 21:54:12 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id VAA02716 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:54:12 -0800 Received: from pd5mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (h24-71-223-13.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.13]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA01554 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:36:08 -0800 Received: from pd4mr3so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr3so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.214]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQD00JSCJG3MH@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:36:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml5so (pn2ml5so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.149]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GQD00ANXJG3MA@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:36:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from k1 (h24-70-216-74.gv.shawcable.net [24.70.216.74]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with SMTP id <0GQD00HDJJG391@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:36:03 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:39:13 -0800 From: Allan Haggett Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Message-id: <006501c1a3c7$e89ce3e0$6601a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <002801c1a32c$ce5a56c0$6601a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I wrote: > I would like to get some input so as to clarify the difference between > Surging and Infracting. I've set up a poll at: http://freefootbag.org/poll/ for anyone who cares :) Allan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 23 22:00:38 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id WAA02973 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:00:38 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f116.law6.hotmail.com [216.32.241.116]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id AAA07167 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 00:45:18 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 00:45:18 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw6fd.law6.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:45:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jeremy Kumbruch" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:45:18 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2002 08:45:18.0556 (UTC) FILETIME=[4900F9C0:01C1A3EA] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Allan H. said: Is Infraction 'unique enough' from a Surge to be considered another set? Or is it just a the'd Surge? If it is unique, I would also contend that Infraction combines the two distinct elements from Surge(spin > dex) into one, thereby lowering it's component value by 1. With a Surge the bag MUST leave your foot before you spin(or really, really, really soon after), with a complete 180, THEN a dex, then whatever move you've still got the time and balance to pull. I think you are right dizzy about the add difference...there is no dex in infracting, and so it can only be 1 add...infracting is a move in itself as Eli said...it is all about the point of release...for a true surge the point of release must be the x-body position so that a dex can be done...this does bring up some controversy about the fact that moves are from one contact to another...i guess you have to take the last point of contact though to judge the next move from...! From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 23 22:03:16 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id WAA03033 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:03:16 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA24236 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:16:50 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GQE00C01FVYK7@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:16:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GQE00AOXFVXU4@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:16:45 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:59:49 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] CSS3 CHANGE OF VENUE To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3C3B8625@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ladies and Gentlemen I am pleased to announce the graduation of the Colorado Shred Symposium. As many of you know the last two years have been held at the Toad Stool Playhouse and up until yesterday Day 1 was still going to be held there. While the people at the Toadstool have always been good to us, it is time to grow. Thanks to 'Red', Day 1 has been moved to the "Mount Zion Church and School Sports Facility". The space is more than twice the size of the Toadstool, has excellent lighting (unlike the Toadstool), a much better floor, and it is still close to the Host Hotel. The new driving directions will be posted soon. Keep an eye on footbag.org and flipsider.com for all up to date information. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 23 22:04:28 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id WAA03084 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:04:28 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f157.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.157]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA25911 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:56:43 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:56:43 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:56:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: ezshredz@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Who's hit what 2 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:56:43 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2002 16:56:43.0482 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF63A3A0:01C1A42E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Wait a sec, this is a bit far off; that is NOT A >SURGING SET. >I've seen that weird reverse infracting (or >whatever) set that Jubal does, and it is far from >a surging set- a full 2 adds difference. [no offence taken ezshredz] True it is not a surge...but it still is a spin [1 add] and then a dex [1 add] to a duck/dive [1 add] to a paradox dex [2 adds]to a osis [3 adds].. so you are saying that the infraction is only one add? This doesn't seem to make sense..not to me anyway..as it only looses the xby add.. so evan if every one disagrees with me on the 1 or 2 add value of the infraction... I vote that it is a two add set [an easier one I admit] but it is harder than the stepping or pixie and they are one add..so..I call it a two add set... My ammo...Eclipse...there is no actual stopping of the footbag..but it doesn't loose an add?..gyro mirage..you still get the spin add then the dex then the delay..hope you all see my point[s] here.. Jubal Hume From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 23 22:05:40 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id WAA03166 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:05:40 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f295.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.170]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA26030 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:59:17 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:59:17 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:59:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Body Paradox Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:59:17 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2002 16:59:17.0641 (UTC) FILETIME=[4B466F90:01C1A42F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I must also say that I think a spin to a dive/duck should get a body paradox if you change direction and go back the way you came from, as it has all the requirements of paradox.. [especially if you do a surge or an infraction set first] comments on this please? Jubal Hume From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 23 22:11:48 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id WAA03445 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:11:48 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f215.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.215]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA26266 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:05:59 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:05:59 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:05:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: jko112@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Lavers and sets Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:05:59 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2002 17:05:59.0330 (UTC) FILETIME=[3AB35020:01C1A430] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >steve pointed out how a torque is different from a stepping >osis. why then is a blur not a stepping pdx mirage? (i looked at >the >"moves >on video" section under freestyle and under blur it did say "stepping >pdx >mirage, but under torque it said "stepping opposite osis") >just a thought >Josh I also think this should be fixed...A stepping osis is not a torque...but perhaps we should ask the guy who invented the move? a torque is a true pogo set followed by an osis that is started in the air and compleated when you land...[flyer add??]or perhaps a symposium add for a TRUE pogo? an airborn step.. Jubal Hume From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 23 22:14:51 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id WAA03548 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:14:51 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f105.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.105]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA16230 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:18:36 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:06:58 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:06:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:06:58 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2002 02:06:58.0446 (UTC) FILETIME=[CDD75AE0:01C1A47B] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I had some thought[s] on this after my last post on it..[so this is my last post on Infraction. It perhaps is not whether infracting is a 2 or a 1 add set..but to respond as to whether it is a move by itself. [and then to it's add count issue] I think that the concept of when a move starts and ends comes into question here. [in general the contact to contact idea is great, but not for this issue] If an infraction is a single move then the eclipse is two moves, E.G.: an inside stall followed closely by a symposium butterfly [ok ok not symposium but airborne] and this seems silly to me. I think that the concept of "CARRYING" could be useful. this is what I mean by that. [and backed up by eclipse] If the move is from contact to contact then "CARRYING" could be the ending or a set of any move that allows it. Like osis for E.G.. If you catch the osis before the turn, then you are carrying the bag behind you, same in several other moves. this doesn't detract from the adds, it is just another way of doing the move. So to define "carrying " a bit more and to answer some obvious questions and or comments...[I do not think "CARRYING" is any extra adds, just a way of doing a set or delay] In Competition say for a good E.G., if [to the judges] it seems to be the intent is to use infracting as a set, IE: intentional movement of the bag regardless of it leaving the setting foot, would be a part of the continuation of the move.[so it would therefore de included in the add count of the move] If it is just a The'd surge it would be obvious to the judges [I'd hope] : and not be included as it were... "CARRYING":Infraction as a set, the act of moving the footbag while it is on you foot [or elsewhere] with full intention of it being the beginning of a move, IE: a contact or attempted move beyond kicking [namely the Infraction set] or the middle [XBY rake uses it this way, it's just on the toe instead] or as an ending [refraction]-[eclipse uses "Carrying" throughout, as does the hop over and many more]- I feel that the president has been set already and that I am just having to defend what has already been decided by people who have [most likely] a better understanding of footbag than I. The requirements of something being a set are..a dex or body [or something] that is done at the beginning of a move while the bag is on the way up...right? followed by the rest of the move,.well infracting is that. [when I do it as a set] As far as the add count, If Refracting gets 3 adds..[one being the delay] then the rewind would be ..um...2 right? [3 subtracting one for the missing delay]...and as far as I can tell the bag is going up enough for me to not only duck it but to do a paradox torque to finnish it off. So I say it is a new set and should be a unique as well as 2 adds. Surging is also two adds, and I admit it is a harder set, but since I also understand that ADDs DO NOT denote difficulty, but rather components, my opinion stands. [rock solid] But, I do realize that this is just my opinion and it may be only mine. If this were not true then osis would be a 2 add, [because it is not always a true 180 degree turn] as well as so many other moves..because the body add can be slight, doesn't mean that it is not there, it just means that I have it wired. [EG: round the worl, remember the first time you tried it? the movement was most likely way too big, but now that you have it wired it is a small movment and you still call it a dex-same toe delay] One more thing, if you do a dada curve [yes there is relevance here] and you do it with your legs together then you would lose one add?..no..so why do some people think that by putting two components together, infraction looses an add? [lol allan, peace man I love ya!] I expect some comments..in fact I request then ..please help out here..:-) pro or con !! I am interested in what everyone thinks on this, especially the concept of "Carrying" and as far as infraction...did I make a good case 'er what? [shoulda been a lawyer not a shredder, lol] Jubal Hume :-) "To shred without thought is to have Fun! To shred with thought is to be Creative with your fun!" so shred on ya'll...and have creative fun! From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 24 01:32:13 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA08943 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 01:32:13 -0800 Received: from web20708.mail.yahoo.com (web20708.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.181]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id AAA07056 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:23:37 -0800 Message-ID: <20020124082337.93824.qmail@web20708.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.137.146] by web20708.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:23:37 PST Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:23:37 -0800 (PST) From: lon smith Subject: Re: [freestyle] stretches To: Samuli Viitanen , freestyle@footbag.org, dvswonderboy@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, Stretching is something you only need to do if you are too sore to be playing anyways. Liquid Lon smith From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 24 01:33:02 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA08987 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 01:33:02 -0800 Received: from pd3mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (h24-71-223-10.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA08764 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 01:26:33 -0800 Received: from pd4mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr2so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.213]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GQF00EIURIN57@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:25:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml5so (pn2ml5so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.149]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GQF003GMRINMI@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:25:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from k1 (h24-70-216-74.gv.shawcable.net [24.70.216.74]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with SMTP id <0GQF009JRRINL0@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:25:35 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 01:28:40 -0800 From: Allan Haggett Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction To: Jubal Hume Cc: freestyle@list.footbag.org Message-id: <009201c1a4b9$82707e40$6601a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jubal Hume wrote: > One more thing, if you do a dada curve [yes there is relevance here] and > you do it with your legs together then you would lose one add?..no..so why > do some people think that by putting two components together, infraction > looses an add? [lol allan, peace man I love ya!] OK, so you're not combining any elements in Infraction. There is no dex in Infraction. In Eclipse and Refraction you get a dex add for dex'ing the *opposite* leg from the one that you are carrying the bag through on. Now, with Infraction, you want to award a dex with the same leg that carries the bag through?? How can you dex the bag with the same leg that your pulling it through with? Sounds pretty weak to me. There isn't a dex present because you "spin" into the release. Really, Infraction is simply a partial rotation from the x-body delay into an inside set and almost shouldn't get a body add either unless you totally tweak it out; at which point you're really just attempting Surge, but being lazy about it. I'm beginning to move towards the "Infraction is a the'd Surge" side of this debate. To paraphrase Lon Smith(from a private reply): "Slurry is to Blurry what Slurge(Infraction) is to Surge." > 'er what? [shoulda been a lawyer not a shredder, lol] Hehehaheha..... A lawyer has to possess good grammar ;-) (ouch!! sorry, J) Dizzy PS If anyone has a question for a poll they would like to see, I'd be happy to set it up. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 24 02:13:32 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id CAA09887 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:13:32 -0800 Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id CAA09690 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:04:09 -0800 Received: from derrick.mlerf.org ([207.160.174.20] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 794969 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 04:00:10 -0600 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 04:05:18 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200201240926.BAA08770@llic.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > From: Allan Haggett > There isn't a dex present because you "spin" into the release. Really, > Infraction is simply a partial rotation from the x-body delay into an > inside > set and almost shouldn't get a body add either unless you totally tweak > it It took me awhile to figure out what you guys were actually talking about... This is a *way* old-school argument! And, being an old-schooler myself, I have to side with Allan. A 'carry' itself is a dexterity add, because it precisely constrains the path your foot can take, even more so than many 'legover' dexterity moves. What you're talking about is a defracting set. Defractions are old-school moves; stalling the footbag X-body while back-spinning, so that you 'carry' the bag into an inside delay. 3 adds: 1X-body, 1Stall, 1Carry(dex). The legover dexterity of the move is discounted because it's just a crotch-over, not a leg-over, (and the bag is still on your foot so the dex isn't counted). Think about osis and refraction. Osis gets 3, and refraction is legover-osis... almost. It's also a crotch-over, and a very easy one at that, so the 'dexterity' in the move is discounted (the move can be done 'correctly' though for 4 adds, it's just hard to do 'correctly'). Osis / refraction: it doesn't matter which side of the leg the bag passes on, the move gets 3 adds; no dex add. But they are considered unique from one another (go figure). Old-school wisdom was that carries always followed the delay, and the add was tacked onto that move. They always used to be done that way. Took us a while to discover it, but a move can start in a carry, too! It's all in the execution, but we don't have a "~" character in Job's notation yet to denote a 'deviant' leading carry versus the 'legacy' (default, no mark) following carry. That's all Ben's fault. Andrew is gonna fix that. Emoticons will somehow gain allure... what are the Job's notations for the 'poke' and the 'stroke' moves, anyway? But yeah, if the bag is still on your foot when it passes through the crotch-over threshold, the dex doesn't count. That's pretty standard for blur-style sets, too: a slur set is lame, unworthy, and if you get caught doing one, the penalty is licking everyone's Lavers clean, or worse, ex-communication from BAP. Done one way, it's like the set as is used in Mobius (distinct set-spin-dex elements). 2 adds. When I was a young whippersnapper, I remember that set being called a 'zoom' set, not 'surging'. Done the other way, it's more like starting a move with a defraction: either a carry or a spin, not both, and a discounted crotch-over. 1 add. I think "infraction" is a fine name for it. -Derrick PS - Pdx torque was my 1st 5-adder, I think pdx-dada is easiest, pdx torque next easiest, and anything with blur dexes or single-leg double-dexes is still nearly impossible for me. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 25 06:16:54 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA00578 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 06:16:54 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f146.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.146]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA20386 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:37:26 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:37:25 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:37:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: lonamithicus@yahoo.com, fbagsam@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org, dvswonderboy@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] stretches Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:37:25 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2002 16:37:25.0623 (UTC) FILETIME=[67AA2070:01C1A4F5] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: lon smith >Stretching is something you only need to do if you are >too sore to be playing anyways. In a way I agree...but Do stretch after a session..it releases the lactic acid and helps to prevent pain that night and the next day... I do not like to stretch before I play though..it makes me too loose and floppy...but ALWAYS WARM UP FIRST!!! then WARM DOWN AFTER!! then stetch out... Jubal Hume From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 25 06:16:06 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA00547 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 06:16:06 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f249.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.249]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA19631 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:25:57 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:25:53 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:25:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: corpofechado@hotmail.com, freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:25:53 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2002 16:25:53.0732 (UTC) FILETIME=[CB43F040:01C1A4F3] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: "Jeremy Kumbruch" >distinct elements from Surge(spin > dex) into one, thereby lowering it's >component value by 1. >With a Surge the bag MUST leave your foot before you >spin(or really, really, really soon after), with a complete 180, THEN a >dex, >then whatever move you've still got the time and balance to pull. >I think you are right dizzy about the add difference...there is no dex in >infracting, and so it can only be 1 add...infracting is a move in itself as >Eli said...it is all about the point of release...for a true surge the >point >of release must be the x-body position so that a dex can be done...this >does >bring up some controversy about the fact that moves are from one contact to >another...i guess you have to take the last point of contact though to >judge >the next move from...! Soo..the eclipse..is it an inside stall then an airborne butterfly? Acording to the current definition of a footbag move it is two seperate moves then?? silly to think of it as two moves when it is very plainly one...much like my infraction [done as a set] and watch me closely [when I'm back in full form]..I do set "as" it gets dexed..but so does shooting and stepping and and and and..because many in many moves you do two [or more] things at once..with no add deduction..so many moves get affected by this..I'd say that it is a two add as a set and a two add as a move and I use it as a set therefore..it gets incorporated [not removed] into my moves adds...or not...lol.. to further the discussion.. So called Ducking..Well I saw it done in 1994 and it was done with the whole back..[R.Rick R.]so does neck ducking get an add deduction as well?[because the first guy I saw do it did it diferntly][lol] or is it just a move that has been refined to [near] perfection, I'd say the latter.[although I do miss the true Duck ..sigh..the good old days] But I will hold firm and stand on my infracting ground here. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 25 06:15:18 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA00530 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 06:15:18 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f80.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.80]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id HAA17193 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 07:32:11 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 07:31:45 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:31:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: allan@footbag.org Cc: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 07:31:44 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2002 15:31:45.0071 (UTC) FILETIME=[3AE99BF0:01C1A4EC] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ? [shoulda been a lawyer not a shredder, lol] >Hehehaheha..... A lawyer has to possess good grammar ;-) (ouch!! sorry, J) >Dizzy To overly notice grammar is an attempt to avoid my concept, and perhaps a poor one.[But true nonetheless] :-) And the dex as it is negates it when carried, what about atomic? or rake? or Zoid or knee pinch [from the back, under,to front]or Paradine rake? or all the carried moves?... so I guess they all get the add deduction too then? and then the floodgates open...then next is fairy set and then... Jubal Hume _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 25 06:17:56 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA00650 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 06:17:56 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f106.hotmail.com [216.32.181.106]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA32471 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:10:47 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:10:47 -0800 Received: from 212.10.236.220 by lw2fd.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:10:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [212.10.236.220] From: "Søren Andersen" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] European Championship? Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 23:10:47 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2002 22:10:47.0710 (UTC) FILETIME=[F9D663E0:01C1A523] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello list. I was wondering if any of you european players know where, and when, the European championship is this year? I´m trying to plan my vacation, so if anyone know something please let me know. Soren Andersen. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 25 06:19:20 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA00888 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 06:19:20 -0800 Received: from web11602.mail.yahoo.com (web11602.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.54]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id PAA04651 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:44:20 -0800 Message-ID: <20020124234420.98022.qmail@web11602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.81.17.154] by web11602.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:44:20 PST Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:44:20 -0800 (PST) From: Ellis Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Who's hit what 2 To: "SOLEAIRPRO victoria B.C." , freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yo shredizos, Ok, let me just say that I don't care about adds. > infraction... I vote that it is a two add set... I'd like to clarify that Jubal is hitting two moves here. The infraction is not a "SET"; it's a move, which is then set into another move (ducking torque). So you are hitting Infraction to Ducking Torque. Super hard, but not one move. The difference that distinguishes it from a "SET" is that it remains on your foot while you are doing it. That means it can't be a set, it is its own move. There is no such thing as an "Eclipse set" either; it's a trick which can be set into just about any other separate move. I hate adds and Lavers, Ellis Piltz From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 25 06:20:31 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA00960 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 06:20:31 -0800 Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA07911 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:59:31 -0800 Received: from attbi.com ([12.238.156.205]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020125005931.DQZU26243.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 00:59:31 +0000 Message-ID: <3C50AEBA.9978ECF4@attbi.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:02:50 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derrics1@attbi.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction References: <009201c1a4b9$82707e40$6601a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well... I've tried to resist this thread, but I just can't. I started trying the surging set after seeing Chad own it at last year's CSS2. At first, it was a good set, but then I got lazy. I started infracting instead of surging (only I called it slurging). And yeah. An infracting set is a the'd surging set. I don't think it gets a dex simply because you are releasing the bag from an inside set. The set foot never passes over the bag after the set. As for adds... who cares? But, on the off chance that someone does one of these moves in a shred contest, I would say that infracting is 1 add. True, it is harder than a spinning set, but face it - if you could hit a clean surging set, *then* it would be 2. And no, it is not the same as an inside set move (0 adds), because you are doing a carry first. And for all of this talk about carries and such... Carries are nice. Sure, they are a bitch to break out in notation, but they look nice. Pendulum, eclipse, refraction, defraction, rake and even the infracting set provide nice variety to a run. Do them. If you want to hit a surge, make sure it is clean. I can see this set going the way of the dada... great move, but it is rare that you find someone who can hit it the way it should be hit. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 25 06:21:24 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA01003 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 06:21:24 -0800 Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA08999 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:28:38 -0800 Received: from attbi.com ([12.238.156.205]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020125012838.ZYHM3578.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 01:28:38 +0000 Message-ID: <3C50B58D.A0A210C6@attbi.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:31:57 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derrics1@attbi.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Lavers and sets References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Josh Andersen wrote: > > about the sets, steve pointed out how a torque is different from a stepping osis. The biggest difference between these two moves is which foot does the osis. On stepping osis, the dex leg does the osis. On torque, the set leg does the osis. > why then is a blur not a stepping pdx mirage? Blur *is* a stepping paradox mirage. It is also a blurry mirage and clipper set miraging paradox mirage... all are one and the same. > (i looked at the section under freestyle and under blur it did say "stepping pdx > mirage, but under torque it said "stepping opposite osis") Wouldn't it be nice if blurry meant "stepping opposite side" instead of "stepping paradox"? Because of some really outdated naming, you can't say blurry osis - you have to say stepping opposite side osis. That is a bitch to say. I mean, come on. If you are calling a string, it would sound like this: legbeater > stepping opposite side osis > blur So, I put it on the list as a torque: legbeater > torque > blur Call it what you will - crispy torque is my favorite. If you want me to change the move list, I will. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 25 06:22:10 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA01053 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 06:22:10 -0800 Received: from web20106.mail.yahoo.com (web20106.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.43]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id SAA13285 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:54:17 -0800 Message-ID: <20020125025415.65321.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.249.152.32] by web20106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:54:15 PST Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:54:15 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Reile Subject: Re: [freestyle] Body Paradox To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Jubal Hume wrote: > I must also say that I think a spin to a dive/duck > should get a body paradox > if you change direction and go back the way you came > from, as it has all the > requirements of paradox.. > [especially if you do a surge or an infraction set > first] > > comments on this please? I think the biggest requirement for something to be paradox is a dex. Neither duck nor dive have a dex, and therefore cannot be paradox. If you are doing some other paradox move after the duck, for example a diving lotus, then the move would still be paradox. But a move that is just spinning into a dive/duck, like peking duck (peeking diving osis), doesn't deserve a pdx add. Eric Reile CIC From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 25 06:23:23 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA01132 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 06:23:23 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA13546 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:00:11 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GQH02E012Y5Y3@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:30:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GQH02DBK2Y5SY@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:30:05 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:13:07 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Lavers and sets To: freestyle Message-id: <3C3CC8B8@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From Jubal Hume ===== >a torque is a true pogo >set followed by an osis that is started in the air and compleated when you >land... I have now read this statement 6 times and this is what I have to say about it. No it isn't! This is a totally false statement. A pogo set is absolutely nothing like the set for a torque. You can do a pogo-osis... you can do a torque...they are two totally distinct moves. >[flyer add??]or perhaps a symposium add for a TRUE pogo? an airborn >step.. No. There is already a body add involved for each move and if there were to be a symposium involved there would not longer be a pogo because pogo neither gets nor deserves a symposium body add. It would simply be a symposium torque or if there was a pogo set before hand it could be a pogo-symposium torque. No flyer either, because it's not one. Later, Brad "The Defraculator" From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 25 09:23:34 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA08168 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:23:34 -0800 Received: from I (brat.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA08165 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:23:34 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:23:27 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] European Championship? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by llic.net id JAA08165 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Soren, Did you bother to look on the event list on footbag.org? http://www.footbag.org/events/ and scroll to July. (Budapest, July 4-7). Steve At 11:10 PM +0100 1/24/02, S¯ren Andersen wrote: >I was wondering if any of you european players know where, and when, >the European championship is this year? >I´m trying to plan my vacation, so if anyone know something please >let me know. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 29 18:17:09 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA06894 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:17:09 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f291.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.166]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA06466 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:31:24 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:31:24 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:31:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: styleeer@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Body Paradox Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:31:24 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jan 2002 16:31:24.0542 (UTC) FILETIME=[BADB49E0:01C1A5BD] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Eric Reile >>--- Jubal Hume wrote: > > I must also say that I think a spin to a dive/duck > > should get a body paradox > > if you change direction and go back the way you came > > from, as it has all the > > requirements of paradox.. > > [especially if you do a surge or an infraction set >I think the biggest requirement for something to be >paradox is a dex. Neither duck nor dive have a dex, >and therefore cannot be paradox. If you are doing >some other paradox move after the duck, for example a >diving lotus, then the move would still be paradox. >But a move that is just spinning into a dive/duck, >like peking duck (peeking diving osis), doesn't >deserve a pdx add. >Eric Reile I hear you...but the concept of a BODY paradox is what I am talking about...I understand that the normal definition of paradox is related to a dex, but this is a concept of how to apply that to body adds as well..thanks for input. Jubal Hume _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 29 18:16:10 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA06772 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:16:10 -0800 Received: from pd5mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (h24-71-223-13.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.13]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA05730 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:14:16 -0800 Received: from pd4mr4so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr4so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.215]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQI00GEN53OGP@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:14:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml4so (pn2ml4so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.148]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQI00C9P53O3N@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:14:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from k1 (h24-70-216-74.gv.shawcable.net [24.70.216.74]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with SMTP id <0GQI00GAR53NUV@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:14:12 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:17:22 -0800 From: Allan Haggett Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction To: Ellis Piltz Cc: freestyle@list.footbag.org Message-id: <00ad01c1a5bb$c50e4a40$6601a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <20020124234420.98022.qmail@web11602.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ellis wrote in "[freestyle] Who's hit what 2": > Ok, let me just say that I don't care about adds. WORD. Let me just say that we should stay on the right topic here. This post should be in Surge V. Infraction. I started this string after reading Lon's original post because it doesn't have anything to do with "Who's hit what 2" and to continue discussing it in this thread would be misleading and confusing for someone looking through the archives later on. I *highly* suggest all of you pick a topic, any topic, and try to research what has been said about it in the archives. It's damn near impossible because *everybody* (except Steve, and including myself) *cross-posts*. This is a bad thing. Please stop. > I'd like to clarify that Jubal is hitting two > moves here. The infraction is not a "SET"; it's I totally see where you're coming from here. But while I can say that I have seen more than a few Infractions that have been carried through so much as to negate it's "set-ness", I have also seen an Infraction done as a set. It's all about the point of release. As I stated before, it looks to me like Infraction is a turn of the head away from being Arctic Set(frigid Osis set Pixie), which, when performed properly, gets an add for the Pixie-like dex. If you were to perform a good clean Infraction-set, there would indeed be a dex present(contrary to my last post). So, again, it's all about the point of release. If you exaggerate the carry and bring it all the way through and set from an inside delay, then yes, this is not a set and is two moves. > There is no such thing as an "Eclipse set" either; But you can finish a move with Eclipse :) Just saying.... > I hate adds and Lavers, I think add's have their place and with some minor modifications could be about as accurate as, IMHO, we will ever get. But that's another topic :) This topic is stupid. Dizzy From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 29 18:18:31 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA07005 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:18:31 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f284.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.159]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA06924 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:45:57 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:45:57 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:45:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: kaplanb@mscd.edu, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Lavers and sets Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:45:57 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jan 2002 16:45:57.0504 (UTC) FILETIME=[C32EB800:01C1A5BF] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Brad Kaplan >> > >===== Original Message From Jubal Hume ===== > >a torque is a true pogo > >set followed by an osis that is started in the air and completed when you > >land... >> No it isn't! This is a totally false statement. A pogo set is >absolutely nothing like the set for a torque. > You can do a pogo-osis... you can do a torque...they are two totally >distinct moves. > Brad "The Defraculator" > Ok..The true pogo is a [symposium step] I think setting from clipper..waiting till the footbag is above the support leg then doing the jump/dex etc..[with out planting untill the dex is done] I agree with the comment that pogo osis is different than torque...[so I may have been misunderstood here] I guess it's sort of like the rip walk/dada concept to me...vague at best..A dada is a symposium as it is stated..[the concept of symposium could be made to include the requirements of the opposite leg doing the dex, but would remove symposium from too many moves] but I also agree that it is not harder...[again I must say this "adds do not denote difficulty, just components"] and in dada there are two 1/2 dexs done while in the air.. I am only commenting on all these topics because they need attention and must be fixed before the [rest of] world will accept footbag as a real art form/sport... All components must be accurately defined and laid out..for several reasons..one ..for comps, two for newbies, three for the future development of new moves and concept sets...[I know you know this] So, yes the worms are out again..and will remain so until the errors of the footbag system are fixed..well not really errors..but loopholes and or minor flaws. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 29 18:20:48 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA07243 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:20:48 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f70.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.70]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA11370 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:15:47 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:15:43 -0800 Received: from 198.60.195.21 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 19:15:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [198.60.195.21] From: "Jim Penske" To: derrics1@attbi.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Lavers and sets Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 19:15:43 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jan 2002 19:15:43.0610 (UTC) FILETIME=[AF51ADA0:01C1A5D4] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derric said: Wouldn't it be nice if blurry meant "stepping opposite side" instead of "stepping paradox"? Because of some really outdated naming, you can't say blurry osis - you have to say stepping opposite side osis. That is a bitch to say. I mean, come on. If you are calling a string, it would sound like this: I just use the term far for anything opposite. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 29 18:22:19 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA07330 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:22:19 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f162.law6.hotmail.com [216.32.241.162]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA16206 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:47:54 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:47:54 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw6fd.law6.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:47:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "jeremy k" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:47:54 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jan 2002 21:47:54.0823 (UTC) FILETIME=[F1F23570:01C1A5E9] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eli said: > > I, jeremy k., have been thinking and debating the issue of infracting vs surging with Jubal and Allan, and I think there is a serious problem with dividing footbag as with so many other things in life! It is convenient but misleading in many cases. Using the release of the bag as the marker between moves is good for most cases, but does not cover all cases. But, i guess, it is the best we have for now. To give an example, what if you did a pendulum and then pivoted and then did another pendulum without the bag leaving your foot. You could rack up the adds by doing this! What is the marker to separate these moves? Just wait till someone perfects contact footbag. Obviously, the bag and/or body stopping is another convenient way to differentiate unique segments in a string. A string or run is really just one move though. But we must divide to easily quantify! WE have to remember also that all moves are also sets. We only talk about sets as being part of a move. So yah Jubal's move in question, the infracting ducking torque is not one move by the current definition, but it is all one continuous motion from the clipper freeze...ill leave all with those thoughts...it doesnt really nullify any controversy, but maybe there is no solution with conventions. We have to be find the best conventions to suit the situation... From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 29 18:23:12 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA07392 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:23:12 -0800 Received: from web20504.mail.yahoo.com (web20504.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.139]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id OAA18566 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:51:40 -0800 Message-ID: <20020125225136.58518.qmail@web20504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.226.142.63] by web20504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:51:36 PST Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:51:36 -0800 (PST) From: Caleb Abraham Subject: Re: [freestyle] Body Paradox To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --- Jubal Hume wrote: > I must also say that I think a spin to a dive/duck > should get a body paradox > if you change direction and go back the way you came > from, as it has all the > requirements of paradox.. I wouldn't quite say that much about the spin>duck set. because if you're compairing it to other paradox moves then i have a riddle for you. wouldn't diving clipper be just like paradox illusion? *i'll give you a hint: NO!!!!* i don't think ducks or dives could be paradox. just my thoughts though. one more thing that has been troubling me lately, there has been way too much talk of getting more adds for moves, or the easiest way to get adds. in my opinion adds are just a classification, to seperate the hundreds of moves you crazy stylas make. nothing more. if ya needs some adds, do my math homework :-) Live to Shred, Shred to Live Caleb P.S. My internet has been down for a while so if i repeat anyone else please forgive how far behind the list i am. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 29 18:25:34 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA07504 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:25:34 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA22548 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:50:01 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GQI05T01SZ4P0@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:49:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GQI05SIASZ4VX@clem.mscd.edu>; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:49:52 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:32:52 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] Pogo VS Symposium To: "SOLEAIRPRO victoria B.C." , freestyle Message-id: <3C3D5714@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is a continuation from the "Lavers and Sets" thread. I figured it was going well beyond lavers. >===== Original Message From "SOLEAIRPRO victoria B.C." >Ok..The true pogo is a [symposium step] I think setting from >clipper..waiting till the footbag is above the support leg then doing the >jump/dex etc..[with out planting untill the dex is done] Okay so here's the real problem. There is this idea that there are two separate "pogo" entities. One that is "true" and obviously one that isn't. There is a claim that the "true" version has a symposium and the other doesn't. So here's how I propose this issue be resolved. (with an added bit of commentary) A Pogo is a pogo is a pogo. It was decided long ago that pogo did not have the Symposium component so "True" or otherwise there is no symposium in POGO and there is really no need to argue this fact ever again. To ensure this what need now be done is to name the concept of "symposium stepping" something else. How about "Omni"? Or "Total"? Or something else, help me out. I really think this will clear up forevermore the problem of pogo or "stepping symposium". Since it's a relatively easy job, please e-mail me privately with any name suggestions and I'll post to everyone the one that sounds best. >So, yes the worms are out again..and will remain so until the errors of the >footbag system are fixed..well not really errors..but loopholes and or minor >flaws. Oy Vey!!! Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 29 18:29:32 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA07831 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:29:32 -0800 Received: from mta06.onebox.com ([64.68.77.179]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA05758 for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 01:32:38 -0800 Received: from onebox.com ([10.1.101.10]) by mta06.onebox.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with SMTP id <20020126093237.HTF29423.mta06.onebox.com@onebox.com> for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 01:32:37 -0800 Received: from [63.155.156.104] by onebox.com with HTTP; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 01:32:37 -0800 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 01:32:37 -0800 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction From: "Jon Nagela" To: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20020126093237.HTF29423.mta06.onebox.com@onebox.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok now that I had to make a new non hotmail e mail acount in order to post to the list (is this why the discussion has been so weak the last year?) in response to Jubal proposing that carries can lead into sets I would have to say that they are unusual and cool but they are separate moves and not sets. Some phat carry combos that come to mind are eclipse- (which has nothing to do with a butterfly btw.) to p.dox flux, and x body rakes into clean frontside fairies is super phat too). I can't understand how you can count clean fairies as carry type moves either because if the dex is done in front with the knee pocket or upper calf there is no carry, only if you swing it back and do a pendulum type set is there a carry. later Jon Nagela From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 29 18:30:36 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA07943 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:30:36 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f89.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.89]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA15046 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 21:55:03 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 21:43:03 -0800 Received: from 128.148.209.72 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 05:43:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.209.72] From: "Ken Somolinos" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 00:43:03 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2002 05:43:03.0439 (UTC) FILETIME=[A73B49F0:01C1A7BE] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi freestylers. Hear me out, I know the topic sounds frivolous. You can skip to the enumerated list at the end for the shorter version. Tonight I was watching an old freestyle video at a friend's house, and I got the usual comments from friends who have not seen freestyle before. Men and women alike were impressed by what we do with our feet, but when one of the women invariably asked the inevitable question: "why does everybody play with their shirt off?", I thought about it for a while. I used to play without a shirt because it lessened the likelihood of the bag getting caught in my shirt, and it increased my crossbody visibility. I know others play without a shirt due to heat and sweating. These are legitimate reasons. Then I gave some serious thought as to my experiences playing with and without a shirt while in public. When I play with a shirt on, I am always much more likely to have people approach me to either compliment my skill, ask me questions, or even better, join in. I also thought about my initial impressions of footbag and footbaggers, and recall being confused at the least, and somewhat intimidated by a circle of sweaty guys standing around kicking a footbag. Society is not entirely accepting yet of a circle of sweaty people wearing just short shorts. Whether or not we like this, we should accept this as a fact. I also don't think it's a coincidence that it is always women who seem most put off/intimidated/confused by a group of shirtless guys playing footbag. Women in footbag are already a minority, and a brave minority at that. Not only are they pioneers in what seems like an "all boys club," but all the boys are sweaty and shirtless. What I'm driving at is a circle of shirtless sweaty guys playing a difficult sport is very intimidating to new players, especially women, and these are just the people we cannot afford to scare off. Since our sport is still so small, we want to project as approachable an image as possible. Approachability will result in more people coming up to you asking what is the name of your sport, people asking for more information, the sport being more TV-friendly, and more people asking to join in and learn. Another benefit of wearing a shirt, is it provides you with another way of promoting the sport. If you play footbag while wearing a shirt that says footbag.org, or some other footbag event, then passerbys will realize that footbag is a larger phenomenon than they thought. When fellow students in the gym come to talk to me and notice my shirt is from Worlds or some other tournament, they ask about tournaments (always in surprise), which allows me to tell them that the sport is more serious than they thought, and is played in several countries. Down the line, hopefully shirts will become endorsement space. Skateboarding is profitable partially because they can sell shirts, shoes, pants, helmets, decks, wheels, and trucks. Also, while there are benefits to playing without a shirt, it's not impossible to play well with a shirt. Sunil is one of the best players in the game, and he almost always plays in a t-shirt. Tu Vu and Ahren Gehrman play in wifebeaters, which solves the ventilation and visibility issues. To sum up my points. Wearing shirts is good because: 1. It makes a circle/player more approachable to newcomers and women. 2. It can be another source of information/promotion for the sport. 3. It does not necessarily hinder vision/ventilation. 4. Sponsors will see it as the most obvious place to advertise themselves. I'd like to hear the women players on the list weigh in on this one. These are just my thoughts, based on my own experiences and observations. Essentially, I see very little detriment in wearing shirts while we play, and have experience many positive benefits from wearing one. I think it's fine to play shirtless if you are just playing with friends in a private place, but when you are on video, or in a park or gym, I really feel wearing a shirt makes the sport appear more professional, and the players (and therfore information) more approachable. Thanks for reading, -Ken From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 29 18:34:39 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA08186 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:34:39 -0800 Received: from ds9.beatricene.com (ds9.beatricene.com [208.15.132.129]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA01927 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:31:39 -0800 Received: from chris-wks.planetquake.com ([208.15.132.78]) by ds9.beatricene.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0SJVO214470 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:31:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20020128131331.00b39950@mail.planetquake.com> X-Sender: shatter@mail.planetquake.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:24:51 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Chris Holden Subject: [freestyle] Sets for 2002 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Greetings Freestylers! I haven't updated in a while so everyone would forget about this list and have fresh ideas for me! (that's a lie, I just haven't had time!) Any questions, comments, suggestions, additions, subtractions,etc email directly to me. One question, this should be easy: Symposium Reverse Miraging is Flailing, but what about non-reversed, does this have a name ? Symposium Miraging SET > (no plant while) OP IN [BOD] [DEX] > I've been hitting this set into butterfly, and working on a few other things, but I have no idea what to call it. Anyway, here's the list as it looked last update (if you told me something and it's not on here, I apologize in advance, but would love to hear what I missed): sets Pixie: TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > Fairy: TOE > SAME OUT [DEX] > Nuclear: CLIP > SAME OUT > Stepping: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > Pogo (Symposium Stepping): CLIP > (no plant while) OP IN [DEX] > Quantum : TOE > OP IN [DEX] > (op side component) Slapping: TOE > OP IN [DEX] > (same side component) Bubba: CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > Atomic: TOE > OP OUT [DEX] > (op side component) Tapping (Atomic same side): TOE > OP OUT [DEX] (plant) > (same side component) Quasi (Paradox Miraging): CLIP > SAME IN [PDX] [DEX] > Terraging (Double Pixie): TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > High Stepping (Barraging): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > Sailing (Pixie Illusion): TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > Blurry (Stepping Paradox): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (op side paradox component) Furious (Barraging Paradox): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > SAME IN [DEX] > (op side paradox component) Frantic (pixie-quantum): TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > OP IN [DEX] > Flailing (Symposium Reverse Miraging): SET > (no plant while) OP OUT [BOD] [DEX] > Fairy Atomic: TOE > SAME OUT [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > Shooting (Stepping Paradox Illusion): CLIP > (no plant while) OP IN [DEX] > OP OUT [PDX][DEX] > Infracting: opposite of a Refraction, done as a set. Spinning: Fairy Spinning: TOE > SAME OUT [DEX] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Pixie Inspinning: TOE > SAME IN [DEX] > (FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > Sonic (gyro spinning): CLIP > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Peeking (double gyro): SET > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Leaning (stepping inspinning): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (front) SPIN [BOD] > Go-Go (stepping backspinning): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (back) spin [bod] > Surging (gyro miraging): CLIP > (BACK/FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > OP IN [DEX] > Twinspinning (nuclear inspinning): CLIP > SAME OUT [DEX] > (FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > Neutron (Atomic spin): TOE > OP OUT [DEX] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (op side component) Whirl/swirl: Swirling/Burly: CLIP > SAME BACK/FRONT SWIRL [DEX] > Whirling: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (same side component) Blazing: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (op side component) Scattered (Reverse Whirling): CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > (same side component) Shattered (Reverse Whirling): CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > (op side component) Blistering (Whirling Gyro): CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > *Broken (clipper reverse whirl): CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > (SAME) *(clipper reverse whirl spinning): CLIP > OP OUT [DEX] > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > UNS set: Finchy (Pinching Fairy set): PINCH > SAME OUT [DEX] > Pixie Pinching: PINCH > SAME IN [DEX] > Twisted (Dragon set Swirling Paradox): DRAGON > SAME FRONT SWIRL [DEX] > SAME IN/OUT [PDX][DEX] > Snapping (Dragon set Swirling): DRAGON > SAME FRONT SWIRL [DEX] > Arctic (frigidosis Pixie): FRIGIDOSIS > SAME IN [DEX] > Antisymposium: Rooting/Rooted: The setting foot is on the ground (antisymposium) Zoid: rooted crossbody toe set Hyper (rooted pixie): rooted toe>same in Rooted Fairy set: rooted toe>same out Components of moves, but not neccesssarily sets: Ducking: SET > DUCK [BOD] > Diving: SET > DIVE [BOD] > Spinning: SET > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > Inspinning: SET > (FRONT) SPIN [BOD] > Gyro: CLIP > (BACK) SPIN [BOD] > (same dex component) gimpy (stepping op knee bump: clip>op in>op knee bump pimpy (pixie same knee bump): toe>same in>same knee bump *=Anybody got a clue? . Chris Holden mailto:shatter@planetquake.com http://www.beatricene.com/footbag/ Calendar of Events: http://www.beatricene.com/cgi-bin/footbag-calendar/calendar.cgi From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 29 19:02:23 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA09723 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:02:23 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f48.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.48]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA07678 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:09:10 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:09:06 -0800 Received: from 161.184.27.46 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:09:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.27.46] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:09:05 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jan 2002 17:09:06.0087 (UTC) FILETIME=[FED7AB70:01C1A5C2] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jubal Wrote: > Soo..the eclipse..is it an inside stall then an airborne butterfly? >Acording to the current definition of a footbag move it is two seperate >moves then?? I think what Ellis and Jeremy are getting at is that naturally sets don't get included in the add count of a move, which is why clipper-set mirage is the same add-count as toe-set mirage. Sets don't merit adds unless there are move components after the bag leaves your foot. Here's six examples that I hope clear things up a little. ie:Atom smasher has an atomic set. This set gets a DEX add because a dexterity is performed during the set, but AFTER the bag leaves your foot. Hopover-set mirage is a wierd move that starts with hopover. I am one who would agree that this is two moves. A two-add followed quickly by another two-add. This IS more difficult than a mirage, but no more difficult than hitting a mirage directly out of Fury, where hitting Smear INSTEAD of mirage IS more difficult. Eclipse is a MOVE. It is an inside delay followed by a mid-air butterfly, yeah. That's two moves, to be sure. But so is Hopover! I'm not complaining if someone combines the delay into a hopover, same with pendulum and rake and all that. Just as long as an eclipse-set butterfly isn't worth four adds. Surging is a set where you perform the dexterity after the bag leaves your foot, therefore it gets an add that is included in the move. Noone would disagree with this. Infracting is a MOVE, much like hopover, in fact, very much like hopover. You start out in clipper, spin, dex, pick your nose, flail around, but you're still delaying the bag until the point you set it, which is a simple inside set. Sure it's worth two adds, but as a MOVE, not a set. Just compare it to hopover as a set. Refraction is a MOVE, but it can be set into unlike hopover or infraction. The dex occurs during the delay, but as it's the ending of a move, the dex is counted. If something is set from Refraction, it's set from clipper, and no extra add is counted. Now, we're scaring beginners away. Infraction is a cool move, and I'm happy that Jubal likes to set from it. I like to set from Pendulum, and Flapper and Crossbody heel. These are cool ways to freestyle, but once and for all, contacted sets are not worth any adds toward the main move, though they are worth adds alone. Infracting ducking pdx torque is a two add infraction, followed by a five add ducking torque that isn't actually paradox. No offence to Jubal, man you rule, but this is how I've felt since this thread started. This is how freestyle has been for a long time now, and we shouldn't go changing this part, because it isn't at all flawed. I don't think contact-move set moves should get extra adds, and that's how it's been. Maybe someone should set up a poll, if we can come up with a question to answer that isn't confusing as hell. Hope I helped answer some questions. Newbies shouldn't be afraid because this is really a very silly conversation about silly things. If it's not in the FAQ, you don't need to know it to have fun doing freestyle footbag. That's my 2 cents. Dylan Livingston From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 30 17:55:19 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA27077 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:55:19 -0800 Received: from web10005.mail.yahoo.com (web10005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.41]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id TAA10589 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:16:10 -0800 Message-ID: <20020130031609.24158.qmail@web10005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.12.107.182] by web10005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:16:09 PST Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:16:09 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Frost Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I understand some of your reason why we shouldn't play with shirts off, but I think you have analyzed this just a bit too far. Here are my two cents... the reason I style with my shirt off is because I GET HOT! I tell you what... it's like the gates of Hades opened and let all the funk out! I wish I could be vain and say that I style shirtless so people could look at my chest... but.. well... i just don't have one! HA! I would guess that the reason most freestylers shred with thier shirts off is because they get extremely hot. "When I play with a shirt on, I am always much more likely to have people approach me to either compliment my skill, ask me questions, or even better, join in." I've never took a poll, but people have come up to me alone and in a group when I was shirtless because they wanted to know what the heck I was doing. I think at tournaments we should have to wear shirts or if we are representing a sponsor, but any other time would be "open". "Tu Vu and Ahren Gehrman play in wifebeaters" I would assume that if someone has a problem with us going shirtless, then they would have a serious problem with someone wearing "wifebeaters". :-) "Since our sport is still so small, we want to project as approachable an image as possible. Not to open a can of worms, but Footbag is still small for reasons far larger than stylers going shirtless. Look, I think that wearing or not wearing a shirt is for the individual to decide and I honestly don't think that people are "wary" of asking us about our sport becauae we are baring our chest. When I go to a school to do a program I, of course, wear a shirt. But once I leave and I'm at a park or someplace like that, I go shirtless. When I shred I sweat like nobody's business and I know that other's do as well. This is just my two cents... Jason Frost From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 30 17:57:45 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA27166 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:57:45 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f71.law6.hotmail.com [216.32.241.71]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA11412; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:36:39 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:25:32 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw6fd.law6.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 03:25:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jeremy Kumbruch" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 03:25:31 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jan 2002 03:25:32.0467 (UTC) FILETIME=[C6186030:01C1A93D] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Nice post Ken! You make some really good points. Ive played without a shirt for many years, and I see what you are saying. I have also done professional work as a footbag player/teacher, and had to be very "presentable". The way you present yourself can make all the difference in how people take to what you are presenting. We have basic standards for most social interactions, and they usually involve full clothing. I dont want to approach most sweaty shirtless people myself, and Im somewhat "open", so I can just imagine how the "average" person sees us. If we want footbag to be "legitimized" in the eyes of the public, we have to act "legitimately" according to social convention. Reading your post was so ironic for me because I was thinking about the issue of why more women dont play footbag. They are intimidated or turned off! Im the worst for this...I sweat like a fiend. But now im converted, at least for all public sessions, I will wear a shirt. And like you say, another benefit of wearing a shirt, is it provides you with another way of promoting the sport. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 30 17:58:55 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA27201 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:58:55 -0800 Received: from web9606.mail.yahoo.com (web9606.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.185]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id VAA15854 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:33:16 -0800 Message-ID: <20020130053315.75687.qmail@web9606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.81.27.226] by web9606.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:33:15 PST Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:33:15 -0800 (PST) From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey yo, Good topic Ken. Something worth responding to. I totally agree that in some situations it would be more appropriate to wear a shirt while kicking, as opposed to just wearing itsy-bitsy shorts. For one thing, some of you hippie shredders just stink. I know it's probably bad for the earth and whatever, but some of you guys need to seriously think about investing in some Right Guard or something. I'm serious about this. It really can be offensive to the public, AND your friends, if you smell like a dirty hippie. But if you can't do that because some whale somewhere is going to die because you support J&J, then please put on a shirt. Besides shirts, while I'm at it, would you men please wear proper underwear if you are wearing short shorts. Loose boxers and short shorts equals the perfect opportunity for people too see things that they might not want to see. I have made this mistake myself. "Hey Ahren, one of your nuts is hanging out." Great. Now I'm sure that there are probably some people who might not mind seeing us with no shirts and our blue diamonds hanging out of our shorts, but most people do mind. So be considerate. As for myself, I'm just too damn sexy to wear a shirt, so there is not much I can do now is there? Johnny Storm From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 30 17:59:58 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA27250 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:59:58 -0800 Received: from pd5mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (h24-71-223-13.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.13]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id DAA24925 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 03:20:49 -0800 Received: from pd5mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (pd5mr1so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.232]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQR002NB0UGBW@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 04:20:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml6so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml6so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.150]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQR00I8M0UGC3@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 04:20:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from k1 (h24-70-216-74.gv.shawcable.net [24.70.216.74]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with SMTP id <0GQR00JC10U4HN@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 04:20:28 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 03:24:00 -0800 From: Allan Haggett Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Message-id: <007101c1a980$9d90b8e0$6601a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Call me unprofessional, but if someone is intimidated enough to not want to approach me after watching me play or not want to join the circle, simply because I'm not wearing a t-shirt, then I didn't really want to meet that person anyways. Do you think back in the day skater's - then in the minority - wearing huge baggy pants and t-shirts with big, weird logo's on them, all got together and said "Hey, maybe if we made our image more politically correct, we might make money and be on TV and we can all watch Tony Hawk on ESPN". ???? I totally see what you're saying Ken, but to me, that's one part of society that we need to change. -Allan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 30 18:00:49 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA27306 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:00:49 -0800 Received: from relay-4v.club-internet.fr (relay-4v.club-internet.fr [194.158.96.115]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA11871 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:34:35 -0800 Received: from balle (lns04v-6-136.w.club-internet.fr [212.194.65.136]) by relay-4v.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 3326E177A for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:34:25 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002a01c1a9c5$8bb79400$8841c2d4@balle> From: "Maxime Boucoiran" To: References: <200201252326.PAA19859@llic.net> Subject: [freestyle] Nuclear vs. bubba Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:37:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list, This has maybe ben debated before as I'm sure it's part of "The Great Paradox Debate": I find that bubba set moves are *much* harder than their paradox/nuclear conterparts. I thought about this and realised that I hav'nt seen many clipperset atomsmashers or legbeaters, omelettes etc... on the other hand, paradox legbeater, pdx atomsmasher (sumo) and others have been hit countless times.... I for one can't hit any of those bubba set moves because I find them very hard, I feel that they should be the ones getting the PDX add... I know, I know.... adds don't count for a lot of you, but if bubba sets got that extra add, maybe we'd be seeing a lot more of those kinds of moves... and I'd like to see some (if you have any videos, mail me)! Anyone share my thoughts (or not) on the subject? Max From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 30 18:02:18 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA27359 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:02:18 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f255.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.130]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA19065 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 14:25:48 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 14:25:47 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:25:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: footbug@hotmail.com, Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 14:25:47 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jan 2002 22:25:47.0617 (UTC) FILETIME=[10B3CD10:01C1A9DD] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Hi freestylers. >>I think it's fine to play shirtless if you are just playing with >friends in >a private place, but when you are on video, or in a park or gym, I really >feel wearing a shirt makes the sport appear more professional, and the >players (and therefore information) more approachable. > >Thanks for reading, >-Ken I so agree...The image and presentation pf footbag is important to the acceptance of it by non players... Demo'ing is different than shredding...When we do a demo show [at a school etc] we wear our team/club shirts and jackets and hats..to present a professional "team" image..this makes footbag look like a pro sport that is organized [lol] and helps..well to make it become organized as an art/sport... When I shred..well no shirt for me thanks.. I don't want to stink it up either...that also deters approaching people... ..but it all depends on where I am and why I'm playing...But YES..I do think this is a good topic to bring up!! Jubal Hume From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 30 18:03:08 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA27403 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:03:08 -0800 Received: from pd4mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (h24-71-223-10.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA24314 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:21:45 -0800 Received: from pd3mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr1so-ser.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.177]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GQR00D36YTPIL@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:34:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml4so (pn2ml4so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.148]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GQR00MJKYTPXC@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:34:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from k1 (h24-70-216-74.gv.shawcable.net [24.70.216.74]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with SMTP id <0GQR00HJ1YTPB9@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:34:37 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:37:56 -0800 From: Allan Haggett Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Message-id: <006501c1a9e7$255ee4c0$6601a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dylan Livingston wrote: > If it's not in the FAQ, you don't need to > know it to have fun doing freestyle footbag. OK, this whole thread was partially my fault. I'm sorry. The question in my poll IS confusing as hell. I don't think we should be concerned with "scarying newbies away" when debating the technical merits of very picky issues though. This whole debate has totally helped me understand a few basic things that were unclear to me before. That's the whole point of this list. I agree with the rest of Dylan's assesment of the situation. Thank you one and all for participating in the futility :) -Allan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 30 18:05:45 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA27590 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:05:45 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com ([207.68.163.163]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id DAA24621 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 03:10:40 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 03:10:36 -0800 Received: from 193.229.6.165 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:10:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [193.229.6.165] From: "Jussi Raitio" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Rod Laver Millenium/2 Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 13:10:36 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jan 2002 11:10:36.0855 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE681470:01C1A97E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey baggers! Would anyone know where is it possible to buy/order a pair of Rod Laver Milleniums or the newer version of them? Has any company selling those shoes in Europe? I think many players want to know this too. If you know something about this I would be grateful (and my legs) if you could mail me or to the list! Jussi Raitio Finland From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 30 18:39:43 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA29701 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:39:43 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f13.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.13]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA29259 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:30:28 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:30:28 -0800 Received: from 128.148.209.72 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 02:30:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.209.72] From: "Ken Somolinos" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:30:28 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2002 02:30:28.0641 (UTC) FILETIME=[3F464910:01C1A9FF] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi stylers, Thanks for all the personal responses, many good points have been brought up. Ahren raises a good point, which is that if we are to be taken seriously, we need to be approachable. Wearing shirts is one way to do this, but Ahren is right about underwear and smell as well. If we are to attract young players and minority groups like women, then we need to be more approachable. It's intimidating enough as is for interested parties to want to play with people who are so skilled, it's that much more intimidating if their nuts are hanging out, they smell bad, and they're sweaty and shirtless. 2. Allan wrote: > >I totally see what you're saying Ken, but to me, that's one part of society >that we need to change. Which raises the question: what should be the goal of freestylers today? In my opinion, my main goal with freestyle is to introduce it to as many new players as possible, so they can discover the fun and fulfillment of footbag that I enjoy. I agree 100% with Allan that the superficiality and judgmentalism of society is something that needs to be changed, I only question if that is a reasonable goal for footbaggers to tackle, and if footbag is the best way to tackle it. Personally my only goals with footbag right now are to continue having fun with it, and to be as approachable as possible in the hopes of getting new players to have fun with it too. Shred on, Ken From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 30 18:41:26 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA29766 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:41:26 -0800 Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA29563 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:36:11 -0800 Received: from derrick.mlerf.org ([207.160.174.20] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 803913 for Freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:31:54 -0600 Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:37:29 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Derrick Fogle To: Freestyle@footbag.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <78986A08-15F3-11D6-9FF0-003065BA9A0E@fogles.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sunday, January 27, 2002, at 11:43 PM, Ken Somolinos wrote: > Wearing shirts is good because: > 1. It makes a circle/player more approachable to newcomers and women. > 2. It can be another source of information/promotion for the sport. > 3. It does not necessarily hinder vision/ventilation. > 4. Sponsors will see it as the most obvious place to advertise > themselves. ...OK, It took a while, but I've finally gotten back up off the floor and stopped laughing enough to reply. A few counterpoints: 1) Footbag will never be 'big' and 'successful' until footbag promotions start focusing on the 90% of Hacky Sackers that don't care about tournaments instead of the 10% who do, shirts or not. 2) Some of us *do* sweat. It would take me a half-hour to saturate a shirt to the point it is literally dripping. Few people (potential sponsors included) would find that appealing. 3) A shirt snug enough to keep from interfering with a footbag is as ridiculous as a bare chest is repulsive. 4) I've been kicking for over 20 years. I ran tournaments for over 10 years. Now, I freestyle for myself, and only myself. I've earned it, I deserve it, I wear (or don't) what I want when I kick. 5) It's not me/us that needs to adjust to society; it's society that needs to adjust to me/us. This wouldn't be the first, or even the tenth, time footbag players have grasped at symbols and tokens as if they were the real thing. Shirts didn't miraculously make footbag popular the last time the craze went around. The idea of dropless routines didn't get us into the Olympics. The "One Big Sponsor" is still vapor. None of these ideas to make our image more acceptable to the general public has paid off. Flying Clipper would fold if they only sold footbags to competitors and well-known icons of footbag. Sensibly, they go to all sorts of festivals and fairs and stuff and sell footbags to run-of-the-mill hackers. Our own footbag.org polls show 90% of kickers are not interested in competitions or blurry whirls. They aren't concerned about shirts, either. They are concerned with having fun. Making footbag look more professional is misplaced effort. Think about making footbag more fun instead. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 30 20:10:41 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA02029 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:10:41 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f88.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.88]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA31770 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 19:17:22 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 19:17:22 -0800 Received: from 128.148.209.72 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:17:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.209.72] Reply-To: Ceiling-Fan@footbag.org From: "Ken Somolinos" To: derrick@fogles.net, Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:17:22 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2002 03:17:22.0592 (UTC) FILETIME=[CC852200:01C1AA05] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everybody. Probably my last time weighing in with thoughts here, but I thought I should clarify some things. The point of my post is that we should be more aware when we play. If you don't want to play with a shirt because you sweat too much, fine. Just think about the potential benefits/disadvantages of whatever you do before doing it. I can play with or without a shirt just as easily, because I don't sweat much and shirts don't get in my way much. I used to play without a shirt out of habit, but now I don't, because I've thought it out. Be aware. Play with or without a shirt, let your nuts hang out or not, but think about it. That's all I'm asking, I was not making a general prescription for every player to follow. My next clarification, is about my comments of promotional space on shirts. I want the sport to get bigger. Wearing a shirt while you play that says footbag or footbag.org is promotion. This is helpful. My main point was not that advertisers will automatically flock to us asking to advertise on our shirts. Derrick wrote: >...OK, It took a while, but I've finally gotten back up off the floor >and stopped laughing enough to reply. I think you must have misinterpreted my goals or have an odd sense of humor. I want the sport to get bigger, I want to attract new players, and I want to promote more. For many people, wearing a shirt while playing is an easy way to accomplish this. If this induces paroxysms of laughter in you, i'll make you a comedy tape and sell it to you. >1) Footbag will never be 'big' and 'successful' until footbag promotions >start focusing on the 90% of Hacky Sackers that don't care about >tournaments instead of the 10% who do, shirts or not. My goal is not for footbag to be "big and successful," my goal is to have more people play, and not to scare off prospective players by being more aware of the image we project. My suggestion to freestyle with a shirt on went out to everybody who plays, not the 10% who care about tournaments. >2) Some of us *do* sweat. It would take me a half-hour to saturate a >shirt to the point it is literally dripping. Few people (potential >sponsors included) would find that appealing. Like I said, my suggestion is not for everybody. Use your judgment. >3) A shirt snug enough to keep from interfering with a footbag is as >ridiculous as a bare chest is repulsive. Maybe for you, but I've seen Sunil, Ahren, Chad, and Tu hit ridiculous tricks and combos while wearing a t-shirt. I play just as well with or without a t-shirt. So empirical evidence suggests that "A shirt snug enough to keep from interfering with a footbag" is not so ridiculous. >4) I've been kicking for over 20 years. I ran tournaments for over 10 >years. Now, I freestyle for myself, and only myself. I've earned it, I >deserve it, I wear (or don't) what I want when I kick. Good for you. I don't doubt your motivations or credentials. Now back to the point: wearing a shirt (or being more generally approachable) is a way for some freestylers to attract new people to the sport. I freestyle for myself as well, but I also like to get other people into the sport, and I don't feel wearing a shirt compromises my playing ability, or constitutes selling out. Like I said, I'm not asking everybody to do it, I'm just asking that if you are looking to attract new players, especially players from demographics that might be intimidated by the sport and its appearance, then give some thought to your appearance. >5) It's not me/us that needs to adjust to society; it's society that >needs to adjust to me/us. I feel that many players take this view, and that it might not be the best way to promote the sport. Taking a more Copernican viewpoint, many young players, and many women are indeed intimidated by a group of men in short shorts playing footbag skillfully. Not only is it hard to approach a group of strangers who are skilled at something, but they have other intimidating factors which may hold them back. I wish society were more open, but I feel the potential gains of wearing a shirt and attracting more players outweigh the comfort of playing without a shirt. >None of these ideas to make our >image more acceptable to the general public has paid off. What is your definition of "paid off?" Every single person who approaches me to ask me about the sport, everybody who asks to play with me, especially the shy people and the women, I see as a direct and completely worthwhile pay off of my wearing a shirt. Not everything is measured in money and sponsorships. As I've stated, my goal is to educate and spread the sport, and I feel wearing a shirt helps me do that in many ways. >They are concerned with having fun. Making footbag look more >professional is misplaced effort. Think about making footbag more fun >instead. Statements like this make it seem like I'm not concerned with having fun. Trust me, I'm having fun, I have witnesses and everything. But whenever I have fun, I think to myself, might it not be more fun if there were more people having fun? And that brings me to looking more professional, or at least more approachable. Footbag is fun. I love it. I want more people to play, and I wanted to tell other footbaggers that by being more aware of the image I present, I have been able to promote the sport better. It never hurts to be more aware of how you can spread the sport, especially if it is painless and easy. Wear a shirt or don't, but put some thought into it. Sincerely, Ken