From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 13:55:39 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA13304 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 13:55:39 -0800 Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA06760 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:47:33 -0800 Received: from c1277828a ([12.231.62.9]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020131064733.QHUY3578.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@c1277828a>; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 06:47:33 +0000 Message-ID: <002201c1aa23$9e9dbf00$96c8000a@sttln1.wa.home.com> From: "Alex Zerbe" To: "Ken Somolinos" , References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:50:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Footbag Community, I just wanted to put in my two cents. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Somolinos" > What I'm driving at is a circle of shirtless sweaty guys playing a difficult > sport is very intimidating to new players, especially women, I personally believe that shirtless guys aren't what is scaring potential or current players off. The bigger issue is the competitive energy and elitist attitude that I see in footbag (Mostly at Worlds where people have something to prove) Derrick is right. The emphasis needs to be on fun. Let's leave the competition in the contest. If you want to wear a shirt, wear it, if you don't, don't. Alex P.S. Deodorant is a good thing. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 13:56:27 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA13347 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 13:56:27 -0800 Received: from femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.106]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id FAA14831 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 05:51:52 -0800 Received: from matt ([24.182.66.10]) by femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20020131135150.XESS12035.femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com@matt> for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 05:51:50 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01c1aa5f$65a65860$9fe9b00a@muellerdmn1> From: "Matt" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 07:58:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Footbag will never be 'big' and >'successful' until ... Personally, I would rather not have it to be a big sport- we don't want it to turn out like football or other sports of today. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 13:56:59 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA13389 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 13:56:59 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f40.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.40]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id HAA18754 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 07:45:28 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 07:45:28 -0800 Received: from 64.109.202.176 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:45:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.109.202.176] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:45:28 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2002 15:45:28.0297 (UTC) FILETIME=[4E7C2D90:01C1AA6E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ahren said: "For one thing, some of you hippie shredders just stink." & "Besides shirts, while I'm at it, would you men please wear proper underwear if you are wearing short shorts." Lmao. That is great. It is hilarious, but it is hilarious because it is so true. Very well spoken Ahren. Some people should really take heed to what this guy is telling you. Later Ian Dubman Yeah, yeah, I have been in hibernation. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 13:57:38 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA13448 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 13:57:38 -0800 Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA07852 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:12:56 -0800 Received: from c1277828a ([12.231.62.9]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020201001251.NPOK26243.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@c1277828a> for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 00:12:51 +0000 Message-ID: <00fc01c1aab5$9f5d9f40$96c8000a@sttln1.wa.home.com> From: "Jane Jones" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:15:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Athletic guys kicking with their shirts off is most likely not keeping the women away...think about it. My impression is that most women don't play out of disinterest (e.g. they would rather be doing something else). Keep your shirts on or off if it makes you play better (unless you're in Italy, which, according to Toby, Ryan and Lon, required them to wear shirts by law). Also, I agree with Ahren...some of you guys are ripe! We had to kick some of you smelly footbaggers off of our couch last summer ;-) Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 13:58:27 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA13492 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 13:58:27 -0800 Received: from web13606.mail.yahoo.com (web13606.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.117]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id TAA14796 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 19:26:55 -0800 Message-ID: <20020201032655.9510.qmail@web13606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.20.180.141] by web13606.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 19:26:55 PST Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 19:26:55 -0800 (PST) From: Trevor Jones Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on To: Freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I believe that this whole shirt issue is one person's own judgement call. ME, myself, like to play with my shirt off. And for the promotional question, you could just as easily print a promo on shorts as you could a shirt and you could put something funny like "Kick IT" on the rear. I would love for more people to start playing, it is a great way to have fun and meet new people. I've found when kids or adults see freestyle they are in awe, if you give them a reference, they will follow up with it and may even start. And about the Girl issue i'm perfectly fine with my appearence especially with my shirt off, and those who aren't need to go do some push ups or something. NO OFFENSE. I actually have gotten girls while playing footbag and that is awesome. Anyways you can do whatever you feel is comfortable or not. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 13:59:23 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA13552 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 13:59:23 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f257.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.132]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA31501 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:21:03 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:21:03 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Feb 2002 16:21:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: footbug@hotmail.com, freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 08:21:00 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2002 16:21:03.0371 (UTC) FILETIME=[71805DB0:01C1AB3C] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Peace to all...this shirt thing is missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!Read on fellow footbaggers ........ >From: "Ken Somolinos" >> >>Ahren raises a good point, which is that if we are to be taken >seriously, we >need to be approachable. Wearing shirts is one way to do this, but and >minority groups like women, then we need to be more approachable. It's >intimidating enough as is for interested parties to want to play >2. Allan wrote: >>I totally see what you're saying Ken, but to me, that's one part of >>society >>that we need to change. [I agree..and more...] Footbaggers or not..some things are slowly being changed..for the better too!..I think that most people who replyed to this string took it WAY TOO PERSONALLY!!!! this is about footbag Ya"all not about petty egos...I personly have several intrests in keeping footbag alive and well...footbag will out suvive all of us!! lets make a good mark on it huh? One: to spread happiness and footbag joy everywhere!! Two: to teach others as I was once taught Three: to help change social convictions and resistance to change Four: to offer a peacefull athletic art/sport [Spart?] Five: to promote unity and circles around the world!!!! six: [I forgot what six was for..] lol If I [who really like playing with no shirt] think that a li'll ol' shirt could help...then so be it dude...what do "I" have to lose?..and besides...of what importance is "I" if "I" am not positively affecting the world "I" live in?...HUH?...or perhaps we could all just forget it and say..hmmm..start playing rugby?...or WWF wrestling..now that's worth it.."not"...look guys sorry for all this sarcasm but really..ask your self "WHY DO I PLAY" then all answers shall be revealed to you...If it is just for your-self...then stay at home..by yourself...otherwise we NEED to make footbag advance right?..to integrate with the rest of the world...to promote peace and kicking is much better than whats going on right now.. So How do we do it?..I have a lot of ideas but it seams that every time I mention them on this list..VERY few respond... Why is this?...perhaps we are [all] thinking too much about our selfs..and not enough about the whole..the whole includes all people!! evan if they work for a multi-national monster company..or if they scape through dirt for garbage to eat..we are all + in the end...so lets make this one way ride softer for as many as possable shal we?.. so just think about it...instead of chopping down a good thought on how to promote the ART/SPORT of footbag....perhaps post a few good ideas your self...this does two things...to remove conflict from this list [that is done for free I remind ya all] asnd to spark a few new ideas...if not here Please e-mail me personally... [and one more thing] I love footbag Jubal Hume From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 14:08:13 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA14209 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 14:08:13 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f266.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.141]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA31619 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:26:40 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:26:40 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Feb 2002 16:26:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: Jubal Hume To: torchbap@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 08:26:39 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2002 16:26:40.0087 (UTC) FILETIME=[3A332670:01C1AB3D] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Umm..what does hippy have to do with anything??short haired people smell less?...and Deodorant is ok for anyone..but DO NOT use anything with aluminum oxide in it..unless you like Alzheimer's later... so..is jhonny storm a person or a nic name?...whlo is this?..Ahren G. or Jhonny S.?/? [ MODERATOR'S NOTE: unless I screw up, the "From:" name in the email headers will always show the correct real name. EVERYONE (AOL users excepted because they can't) should make sure that thier real full name is in the From: header when sending mail to footbag.org. This is a list guideline which some of you consistently violate; I'm fixing them for you now, but I might stop doing that in the future. ] >From: Ahren Gehrman >hey yo, >Good topic Ken. Something worth responding to. I >totally agree that in some situations it would be more >appropriate to wear a shirt while kicking, as opposed >to just wearing itsy-bitsy shorts. For one thing, >some of you hippie shredders just stink. I know it's >probably bad for the earth and whatever, but some of >you guys need to seriously think about investing in >some Right Guard or something. I'm serious about >this. It really can be offensive to the public, AND >your friends, if you smell like a dirty hippie. But >if you can't do that because some whale somewhere is >going to die because you support J&J, then please put >on a shirt. > >Besides shirts, while I'm at it, would you men please >wear proper underwear if you are wearing short shorts. > Loose boxers and short shorts equals the perfect >opportunity for people too see things that they might >not want to see. I have made this mistake myself. >"Hey Ahren, one of your nuts is hanging out." Great. >Now I'm sure that there are probably some people who >might not mind seeing us with no shirts and our blue >diamonds hanging out of our shorts, but most people do >mind. So be considerate. > >As for myself, I'm just too damn sexy to wear a shirt, >so there is not much I can do now is there? > >Johnny Storm From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 18:49:13 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA01398 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:49:13 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f30.law6.hotmail.com [216.32.241.30]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA17590; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 15:30:08 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 15:18:12 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw6fd.law6.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Feb 2002 23:18:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jeremy Kumbruch" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 23:18:11 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2002 23:18:12.0246 (UTC) FILETIME=[B7DF9B60:01C1AB76] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > From: Trevor Jones > > > >I believe that this whole shirt issue is one person's >own judgement call. ME, myself, like to play with my >shirt off. But our personal judgements do not just affect us...We are all ambassadors of footbag, and need to work together to promote this wonderful sport/art! And about >the Girl issue i'm perfectly fine with my appearence >especially with my shirt off, and those who aren't >need to go do some push ups or something. NO OFFENSE. >I actually have gotten girls while playing footbag and >that is awesome. Anyways you can do whatever you feel >is comfortable or not. Scoring chicks from playing footbag isn't really the issue Trevor. Isn't our concern getting more people into footbag. I think that all of the factors people have mentioned all contribute to how footbag is perceived and why it still has a relatively small following at the pro level. Shredders don't really "seem" to be having "fun". To anyone who justs want to keep it casual, a shred circle is not appealing. They have to wait forever to get the bag, and then they get it for a few seconds. I had a guy say to me at a party once that he didn't enjoy playing with us (the victoria shredders), and I reactly blindly and said that it wasn't my responsibility to make it fun for him. But after thinking about it for awhile, I realized it is my responsibility. If we want footbag to be played by more people, it is our responsibility. If shredders, when playing in high profile places, took time to tell onlookers about it and encourage people to give it a try, then think what might happen. And when new people join, maybe tone down your play slightly and pass the bag. Get a flow going and have some fun. I am not saying you have to do this all the time, but once in awhile might be really helpful for the overall appreciation of footbag! What do other people think about footbag going "big"? Going "big" doesn't have to be like conventional sports. Hell, i'd be happy with one-tenth of the salary of professional athletes, and i'd do a hell of a lot more then most of them! Just some thoughts....just know the eternal ebb and flow!!!!! From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 18:50:40 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA01478 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:50:40 -0800 Received: from pilot25.cl.msu.edu (pilot25.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.45]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA23592 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:15:47 -0800 Received: from wks4lan (pm242-06.dialip.mich.net [35.9.8.199]) by pilot25.cl.msu.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g122FMt50168 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 21:15:31 -0500 From: "Adam Keith" To: Subject: RE: [freestyle] Nuclear vs. bubba Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 21:23:10 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002a01c1a9c5$8bb79400$8841c2d4@balle> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I think the real key here is that there really is no bubba set (at least not one that I have seen). I think that eggbeater on the way down is just as hard set either from the bubba side or the paradox side (the same goes for any atomic set moves), but the set on a paradox eggbeater is just a little trickier because the bag placement has to be more exact (it is coming across the body first). The reason you see more paradox atom smashers and eggbeaters though is that many people do them with a nuclear set, which means that have to do one less dex on the way down, making them much easier. The same goes with toe set moves, try doing an atomic mirage (atom smasher), then try doing atom smasher all on the way down (alot harder, probably about the same difficulty as a bubba-version of the same move). Bubba moves are definitely hard. I really haven't seen anyone do atom smashers or omelettes on the way down (although I wouldn't put it by some sicko out there). To counter act the difficulty though you could do a set into a bubba move (Flaming Tard for instance), as it is not too much harder than a bubba-version eggbeater as long as you have a skooled stepping set. There are also some moves that are not much harder like barfly and down double down. Personally I think DDD is a little harder than barfly, but not much > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freestyle@footbag.org [mailto:owner-freestyle@footbag.org]On > Behalf Of Maxime Boucoiran > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 2:37 PM > To: freestyle@list.footbag.org > Subject: [freestyle] Nuclear vs. bubba > > > Hey list, > > This has maybe ben debated before as I'm sure it's part of "The Great > Paradox Debate": > > I find that bubba set moves are *much* harder than their paradox/nuclear > conterparts. I thought about this and realised that I hav'nt seen many > clipperset atomsmashers or legbeaters, omelettes etc... on the other hand, > paradox legbeater, pdx atomsmasher (sumo) and others have been > hit countless > times.... I for one can't hit any of those bubba set moves because I find > them very hard, I feel that they should be the ones getting the > PDX add... I > know, I know.... adds don't count for a lot of you, but if bubba sets got > that extra add, maybe we'd be seeing a lot more of those kinds of moves... > and I'd like to see some (if you have any videos, mail me)! > > Anyone share my thoughts (or not) on the subject? > > Max > From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 18:51:47 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA01514 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:51:47 -0800 Received: from pilot25.cl.msu.edu (pilot25.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.45]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA23893 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:22:21 -0800 Received: from wks4lan (pm242-06.dialip.mich.net [35.9.8.199]) by pilot25.cl.msu.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g122MJt60650 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 21:22:19 -0500 From: "Adam Keith" To: "Freestyle" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 21:30:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <00ad01c1a5bb$c50e4a40$6601a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Allen Haggett wrote: > I totally see where you're coming from here. But while I can say > that I have > seen more than a few Infractions that have been carried through so much as > to negate it's "set-ness", I have also seen an Infraction done as a set. > It's all about the point of release. I don't really agree here, I think is has more to do with bag momentum. Many people are saying that an infraction is not a set because the bag has yet come off the foot. I think that we need to be more technical about where exactly a move ends and begins. Personally I think that one move ends and another move begins from the point where the bag begins to move upwards again (or in physics terms the point at which the velocity of the bag in the vertical direction is 0), I call this the cradle point. This would mean eclipses would be include on the end of a move because (if you do you eclipses like mine) you continue to cradle the bag while performing it and the set comes just after the dex is completed. Same goes for rakes. Infraction on the other hand would be tacked on to the beginning because you lift the bag from the cradle point with this movement. Come to think of it this means you could do a hop-over set from an inside delay. That would be real cool!!! By the way, I think infraciton should be 1 add and surging 2 adds for the exact reasons Derrick Fogle stated in his big post. Adam Keith P.S.: I think we need to address the issue of where one move ends and another begins for this very reason, because arguements could be made for breaking them at the point of first contact between the foot and the bag, or at the point of release. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 19:52:12 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA03756 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 19:52:12 -0800 Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA03599 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 19:49:41 -0800 Received: from dfiatx96-236.dfiatx.dsl.gtei.net ([4.3.96.236] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 807395 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 01 Feb 2002 21:45:18 -0600 Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 21:51:06 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Derrick Fogle To: "Freestyle" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <160B15DA-1790-11D6-98B9-003065BA9A0E@fogles.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 08:30 PM, Adam Keith wrote: > P.S.: I think we need to address the issue of where one move ends and > another begins for this very reason, because arguements could be made Imagine, for a moment, you have a video of Ryan's Worlds routine and you are responsible for editing it and breaking each move apart into it's own little clip. Would you always make the cuts at the moment the footbag leaves the foot, or would you make the cut somewhere *between* the previous contact and the next release? I would do the latter. Everyone should realize that a move starts when a move starts, and a move ends when a move ends, and that's not always at the point a footbag leaves contact with some part of your body. The momentum of a move can start before the footbag leaves the foot, and the momentum can end after the footbag makes contact again. The best freestylers blend moves together almost beyond distinction, but if you were in charge of breaking a video of a freestyle string into individual moves, you'd still make the edit cut *somewhere*. Yeah, that makes scoring more difficult, and maybe we have to approximate that cut between moves to make scoring feasible. But we shouldn't let compromises we make for scoring keep us from exploring more accurate analysis of our movements. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 3 08:17:52 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA28830 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 08:17:52 -0800 Received: from mx1.mail.ru (mx1.mail.ru [194.67.57.11]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA18843 for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 08:28:11 -0800 Received: from f13.int ([10.0.0.105] helo=f13.port.ru) by mx1.mail.ru with esmtp (Exim 3.14 #1) id 16X31J-00034l-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 19:28:05 +0300 Received: from mail by f13.port.ru with local (Exim 3.14 #1) id 16X318-000MdB-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 19:27:54 +0300 Received: from [199.243.150.89] by win.mail.ru with HTTP; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 19:27:54 +0300 From: "Anthony Zverev" To: freestyle@footbag.org Cc: Subject: [freestyle] Footbag music Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: mPOP Web-Mail 2.19 X-Originating-IP: [199.243.150.89] Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 19:27:54 +0300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was just wondering what genres footbag world champions and footbag freestyle pro's like? What do u think about the most likely "footbag" music? What genres are suitable with freestyle? Anthony Zverev From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 3 08:18:56 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA28873 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 08:18:56 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f169.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.169]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA19267 for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 08:51:00 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 08:39:09 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 16:39:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: mattmueller@home.net, Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 08:39:08 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2002 16:39:09.0145 (UTC) FILETIME=[23161490:01C1AC08] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: "Matt" > >Footbag will never be 'big' and >'successful' until ... > >Personally, I would rather not have it to be a big sport- we don't want it >to turn out like football or other sports of today. > TRUE!! I agree!! We never should let footbag get "like other big sports" so ..as we all know that over the next fifty years footbag will become HUGE...we all have a vested interest in safeguarding what we hold so dear to us...to make sure it doesn't get overly commercialized...we have to be aware of how it is seen..and perceived... It took hockey fifty years to be HUGE...it took soccer years longer than that...basketball..the same deal...footbag is ripe to explode...we must keep our wits and hearts about us.. ..But there is also nothing wrong with making a decent living doing what you love ...specially when it positively affects the world we all live in... This is why it is crucial that we think about what and how we all rep footbag..in circles...at parties, wherever we are... SELLING IS NOT SELLING OUT! Jubal Hume PS: I like making my living from selling footbags and doing shows in schools...never mind international tours..it sure beats the hell outa "would you like fries with that?" or tree planting...If you have tree planted..then you know From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 3 08:21:28 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA28933 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 08:21:28 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f301.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.176]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA19558 for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 09:06:39 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 09:06:39 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 17:06:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: derrick@fogles.net, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 09:06:38 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2002 17:06:39.0173 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA945F50:01C1AC0B] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Derrick Fogle >On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 08:30 PM, Adam Keith wrote: > >>P.S.: I think we need to address the issue of where one move ends and >>another begins for this very reason, because arguements could be made > >Imagine, for a moment, you have a video of Ryan's Worlds routine and you >are responsible for editing it and breaking each move apart into it's >own little clip. Would you always make the cuts at the moment the >footbag leaves the foot, or would you make the cut somewhere *between* >the previous contact and the next release? I would do the latter. > >Everyone should realize that a move starts when a move starts, and a >move ends when a move ends, and that's not always at the point a footbag >leaves contact with some part of your body. The momentum of a move can >start before the footbag leaves the foot, and the momentum can end after >the footbag makes contact again. The best freestylers blend moves >together almost beyond distinction, but if you were in charge of >breaking a video of a freestyle string into individual moves, you'd >still make the edit cut *somewhere*. > THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN..."intent of motion" we already do this in so many moves..rake..otherwise it would be a Xby toe...[lol] Intent is deliberate thought that causes action...or a footbag move.. I also like the other post [in same string] about zero G..a move ends when it ends motion..not with contact..a move also starts with motion not leaving contact..because even the cleanest set ever is set by the leg or foot beginning a motion that launches the footbag upwards...or down..heh..but it does start a motion that is guided by the foot [even if it is for a mille second].. imagine this move..[it is hard to do too] an inside stall to hop over to [seamless motion here] infraction to hop over to infraction...hmm...how's that get rated..when you get tired?..lol.. I am just making a point is all..[for fun and point making] lol I also want to add a giant PROPS!!!!! to all who have been working on the moves list[s]... Jubal Hume [The Instigator] heh Nicknames are silly unless someone else gives it to you.. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 3 08:43:14 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA29352 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 08:43:14 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f17.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.17]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA23063 for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 11:06:01 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 11:06:01 -0800 Received: from 132.241.246.112 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 19:06:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [132.241.246.112] From: "Tara Ohr" To: corpofechado@hotmail.com, Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 11:06:00 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2002 19:06:01.0166 (UTC) FILETIME=[A775C6E0:01C1AC1C] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello shredees, Tara signing in on the topic. I have been discussing this with many of my friends who play and I think it is really important to involve everyone! You have have very important point ot make here.... Jeremy Krumbach said... >If we want footbag to be played by more people, it is our responsibility. A New player is going to be intimidated by the level of play that even an intermediate like me plays at. They don't want to look stupid out there in front of everybody and when we do the crazy things we do, it makes their few tricks seem meager to them. Jeremy also said... >If shredders, when playing in high profile places, took time to tell onlookers about it and encourage people to give it a try, then think what might happen. A little encouragement goes a long way. Sit back for a second... let's go on a little trip. Remember way, way back when you first starting kicking. Maybe you saw the circle from a far, maybe it was only one person shredding... what do you remember about you first encounter? Remember the time when you first stepped into a higher level circle and someone gave you props for a certain trick or good string. How did that make you feel? Think about that when a newbie enters the ring, and give them props for kicking successfully. It will usually make them want to do more. Jeremy also said... >And when new people join, maybe tone down your play slightly and pass the >bag. Get a flow going and have some fun. Isn't this what it all about... One thing I loved about playing with Lon is he made the circle get a full hack before we started shredding hard. Circle playing is about a group goal. Accomplishing something together to better each other and support each other. It's a community thang!!!! Thanks for listening. I hope this inspires some of you to let the newbies shine for a moment so they can get the bug that all of us freestylers enjoy so much. Just a thought! tara From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 3 08:54:21 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA29627 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 08:54:21 -0800 Received: from web9807.mail.yahoo.com (web9807.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.32]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id DAA23087 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 03:14:42 -0800 Message-ID: <20020203111442.80694.qmail@web9807.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [141.214.18.229] by web9807.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Feb 2002 03:14:42 PST Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 03:14:42 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Munger Subject: [freestyle] Laver origin? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Guys and Gals. I have an unusual request or question you might say. I have a picture of what appears to be an old school Laver. Since most of us know what our own shoes look like I would like to see about finding the owner of this shoe/picture. I know this sound nutz (ok it is) but mail me direct and I will send out the picture. I REALLY want to know who this shoe belongs too. Thnx Paul Munger From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 3 08:57:03 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA29695 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 08:57:03 -0800 Received: from femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.84]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA20774 for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 09:49:17 -0800 Received: from matt ([24.182.66.10]) by femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20020202174858.LHNO4936.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@matt> for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 09:48:58 -0800 Message-ID: <001b01c1ac12$e38ad580$9fe9b00a@muellerdmn1> From: Matt Mueller To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 11:56:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >..But there is also nothing wrong with >making a decent living doing what you >love ... That would be nice. Hopefully in 10 years it will be just big enough for me to get paid professionally. I think Im pretty good, and Im only 13! I would imagine that footbag will be joining the olympics in not too long - it seems like a perfect sport for it (individually scored). From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 3 09:33:35 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA30621 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 09:33:35 -0800 Received: from web13603.mail.yahoo.com (web13603.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.114]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id JAA30553 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 09:28:40 -0800 Message-ID: <20020203172836.94078.qmail@web13603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.255.208.100] by web13603.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Feb 2002 09:28:36 PST Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 09:28:36 -0800 (PST) From: Shaun Marques Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey out there, Tara quoted Jeremy in saying: > A New player is going to be intimidated by the level > of play that even an > intermediate like me plays at. They don't want to > look stupid out there in > front of everybody and when we do the crazy things > we do, it makes their few > tricks seem meager to them. Wow, it's been a while since I wrote. Hrm.. although that's a really good case (intimidation and whatnot), it's just not true for every last newbie out there. Something like two years ago, I went out to Collegeville to check out what Bob Riefer was putting on: The SMURF. I came early, and Dave Sanchez was schooling all sorts of strings with Bob. They were chillin', and I had what.. a few basic stalls. I wasn't intimidated, moreover fascinated by the bread'n'butter tricks that they were hitting. Of course then Ken Somolinos, Kaiser, and Scott showed up, and well.. even more tricks spewed out from these furious shredders. In short: sometimes flashy tricks fascinate, instead of intimidate.. good times fellas, good times. -Shaun Marques From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 4 09:15:12 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA02640 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:15:12 -0800 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA30659 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 09:34:32 -0800 From: Josh Andersen Received: from JKO112@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.26.) id z.c3.1d556890 (25510) for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 12:34:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 12:34:29 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 2/3/02 8:41:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, soleairpro@hotmail.com writes: << ..But there is also nothing wrong with making a decent living doing what you love >> when footbag pros start getting rich they'll change. there wouldn't be anymore shreddin (or trying your best) w/ people like dave holton and daryl genz and alex faber haha (small tourny in atlanta) if they were too arrogant to play w/ newbies like me and my friends. just my thoughts Josh Owens ps. i'm sure the professionals of other sports thought they wouldn't turn into... uh jerks too. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 4 09:16:37 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA02748 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:16:37 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f166.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.166]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA11655 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 16:06:16 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 16:06:16 -0800 Received: from 209.79.217.178 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 00:06:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.79.217.178] From: "Randy Magliocca" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Mobius, YES! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 00:06:15 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2002 00:06:16.0115 (UTC) FILETIME=[C39E9830:01C1AD0F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I HIT MOBIUS!!!!!!!! I JUST HIT MOBIUS FOR MY FIRST TIME!! ...Ok now that I have comed down, I have been practicing mobius for a week now and I was not thinking and just gave it a whirl, and I hit it right out of no where. Well sorry for wasting your time, later. Randy"The Magician"Magliocca From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 4 09:18:43 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA02867 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:18:43 -0800 Received: from mail9.bigmailbox.com (mail9.bigmailbox.com [209.132.220.40]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA17745 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 19:30:04 -0800 Received: (from www@localhost) by mail9.bigmailbox.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) id g143Ttj10108; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 19:29:55 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 19:29:55 -0800 Message-Id: <200202040329.g143Ttj10108@mail9.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [198.82.108.60] From: "Joon Chung" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Laver cushions? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, My right foot is starting to hurt from a combination of running and footbag. I was wondering if you guys recommend getting new insoles or just getting a new pair of lavers (or other shoe). Reply privately please =] Thanks, Joon From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 4 09:19:28 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA03124 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:19:28 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f238.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.238]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id HAA31547 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 07:30:50 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 07:19:09 -0800 Received: from 206.21.208.167 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:19:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [206.21.208.167] From: "Noah Jay-Bonn" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 10:19:09 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2002 15:19:09.0678 (UTC) FILETIME=[4B3508E0:01C1AD8F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list, I was lloking around at moves and I noticed a move called Catwalk on www.footbagfreestyle.de I watched it's video and it looks exactly the same as an eclipse, but it is written as a 4 add. The Job's notation for eclipse is: SET > (jump) [BOD] > SAME or OP INSIDE [DEL] > OP OUT [DEX] > (land) The Job's notation for catwalk is:SET > (jump) (BOD) > SAME or OP INSIDE (DEL) > OP OUT (DEX) > (land) OP CLIP (XBD) I guess in Germany they are giving the inside delay carry a cross-body add as well. Just thought I'd point out this discrepancy between the two. Should it be a 3-add move as it is with an eclipse or a 4-add move as it is with the Catwalk? I personally think it should remain as an eclipse, because you dont really do anything extra to get a cross-body add when doing an eclipse; it is just a carry. Anyways, just want to know what you guys think and see what the move should really be. Solo Kicking in Ohio Noah From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 4 09:21:35 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA03218 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:21:35 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f82.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.82]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA02249 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:09:17 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:09:17 -0800 Received: from 161.184.29.230 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 17:09:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.29.230] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 10:09:17 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2002 17:09:17.0540 (UTC) FILETIME=[ADCCC240:01C1AD9E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all! I'm a newbie. I can't do very many moves, and those I can do, I can rarely link to other moves. I spent years "hacking". Which means I could barely toe-stall, I couldn't do a flying clipper, and all my friends were the same. Sure, we had a blast, and it killed a ton of time at lunch and stuff, but back then I didn't know that freestyle existed. I'm talking years. Here's the funky part. IN A DIFFERENT PART OF THE SCHOOL, THERE WERE INCREDIBLE SHREDDERS SHOWING THEIR STUFF, BUT ONLY TO THEMSELVES. When I noticed this, I was impressed, but a little cheesed at their elitist attitude. Picking an isolated part of school to hide away and practice, while mere meters away there's guys struggling with foot stalls and wondering if there's more to the sport. All my friends actually turned out to be their own version of "Newbie Elite". They totally looked down on the freestylers. Maybe cuz they were too good, maybe cuz they were elitist, whatever. I wanted to learn all these crazy tricks, but I had to do it behind my friend's backs, and I had to learn under a lot of scrutiny and intimidation, so much that I eventually just forgot about public shred and just hacked with my friends, no clippers. When I got home at night, I'd spend about a half an hour trying to school a few moves. Eventually I reached the point of newbeism (After breaking my toe and bringing myself back from the beginning). Most of my friends still call freestyle footbag "Jamie-hack", after the best shredder out of the bunch at my old school. They thought he was a cyborg, totally out of their league. And now to the point. If me and my friends had been accepted into that group (And I'm not saying it was all their fault), I would be quite professional by now, and so would many of my friends, no doubt. The job does lie with the freestyler to bring in newbies, not to be elite and better than others. But also the job lies with the newbies. Don't disrespect your friends if they want to go on to a higher level. If a person leaves his/her group of friends to shred with another group, don't look down on them, they're still your friend. They're the ones taking the initiative, and if you don't want to be shunned, join the party! Circle hacking and freestyle should be grouped into one. I think that if a school or other establishment already has very few footbaggers, they should stick together, no matter what their ability. If I see a person who is at the level I was back then, I walk up to them, sure I'm embarrassed if they're with a lot of friends, but I ask if they want to shred. "What's shred" they say. That's my favorite question. I love teaching newbies what we do, and everybody else should too. Oh yeah! And I've never attracted more people with a shirt on than with my shirt off. I ALWAYS attract more people with my shirt off, simply cuz I don't smell, and I freestyle better with no shirt. I believe the shirt doesn't make a difference unless it affects your shred ability, and it affects mine for the worst. No offence to anyone, but if you wear short shorts, wear briefs man! I wear zip-off khakis, about mid-thigh length. I've never flashed a nut. I think that would DEFINITELY scare off a group of young newbies. Use your better judgement. There's my input on the subject. I've divulged my past to everybody. There ya go. Peace out list Dylan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 4 11:13:39 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA10202 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 11:13:39 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f146.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.146]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA09812 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:58:30 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:58:30 -0800 Received: from 161.184.29.148 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 18:58:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.29.148] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 11:58:29 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2002 18:58:30.0315 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF8EDFB0:01C1ADAD] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, I'm hearing this all over the place. Catwalk IS an Eclipse. It's just another way of wording it. I like both names. I'm pretty sure Catwalk is a more international name, but as far as I know, Eclipse has been around longer. As far as the extra add goes, you see this sort of thing on all sorts of sites. Pogo being counted as Symposium, XBD being included in the set (Come on!), and Eclipse getting XBD for the delay. In different countries they use different ruling systems, and you just have to pick the one you think defines the moves best. Pogo gets an add if you are counting the move components, but not difficulty, and in America, believe it or not, adds are used to partially measure difficulty (Not opening can of worms, not opening can of worms). In places where adds measure only move components, Eclipse should probably get XBD because it ends on XBD, but that's not the way it is here. Anyway, I like both names, and on my move-list they're both three adds and listed under the same Jobs' notation. (Set>Jump>Same/Op Inside>Op Out>Set>Land) I think this explains the move best, but that's just my opinion. Peace all, Dylan >From: "Noah Jay-Bonn" > >Hey list, > I was lloking around at moves and I noticed a move called Catwalk on >www.footbagfreestyle.de I watched it's video and it looks exactly the same >as an eclipse, but it is written as a 4 add. > The Job's notation for eclipse is: SET > (jump) [BOD] > SAME or OP INSIDE >[DEL] > OP OUT [DEX] > (land) > The Job's notation for catwalk is:SET > (jump) (BOD) > SAME or OP INSIDE >(DEL) > OP OUT (DEX) > (land) OP CLIP (XBD) [ moderator's ] From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 4 13:05:18 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA14548 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:05:18 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f304.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.179]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA12206 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:11:42 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:11:42 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 20:11:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: jko112@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 12:11:42 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2002 20:11:42.0582 (UTC) FILETIME=[298DA160:01C1ADB8] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I am getting irritated by the way people look at a fiscal success...does anyone get it?? YOU CAN SELL..without selling out!!!! You can even use Big multinationals for your own reasons!!..I was on the Starburst Promotion in Czech Rep. look what happened there!! so who won...footbag or Starburst?..I say that a giant company that is cool enough to see footbags attractiveness to the youth is a cool enough company to work with in the promoting od footbag...how many companies can you name [that don't make footbags] that promote it??? ok ok..read on... >From: Josh Andersen [[responds to Jubal Hume]] >soleairpro@hotmail.com writes: > ><< ..But there is also nothing wrong with making a decent living doing what > you love >> >when footbag pros start getting rich they'll change. there wouldn't be >anymore shredding (or trying your best) w/ people like dave holton and >daryl >genz and alex faber haha (small tourny in atlanta) if they were too >arrogant >to play w/ newbies like me and my friends. >just my thoughts >Josh Owens >ps. i'm sure the professionals of other sports thought they wouldn't turn >into... uh jerks too. Well now.. I play with almost anyone who will play with me..and I have been playing for almost 17 years... I have been making a living off of footbag [shows or footbag sales or international promotions]No..not all my living..[yet]..but soon perhaps... :-) ...and I know this is not the amount of $$ you speak of..like a Pro Basket ball player etc..but I go out of my way to play with kids and newbies ..to train them to show them the fun and moves that are there for the schooling...ask anyone who has played with me as a newbie...say..um Allan H...Jeremy K...Dylan F ...Judy A... and so many more I cant even remember them all..lol....now..in real life sometimes we all are jerks..but in a circle I AM NOT...at a Demo I am not..so..how your comment relates to making a living from being a professional footbager...Hmmm?????? When some footbaggers Inherit their parents cash..they may change too...so what ..we all should go on welfare??? or as Allan said..go get a Job??? I think not ..unless you want to..just keep pushing forward and do what you can to make a living and NOT become an asshole... Some of the kindest and coolest footbagers are making a good bit of Cash from it..are they asholes?..no!..Most footbagers are good people!!! [most people are just good people] I think that a poor asshole will stay an asshole when he/she becomes rich..and a good person will become a rich good person when they get rich..and some are going to change from it..some will not change...but that is each persons thing to deal with...NOT FOOTBAGS.. footbag is the whole that includes all players...but each of us is solely responsible for ourselves, rich or not. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 4 13:09:45 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA14719 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:09:45 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f41.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.41]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA12807 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:20:05 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:20:01 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 20:20:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: shags125@hotmail.com, freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 12:20:00 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2002 20:20:01.0323 (UTC) FILETIME=[52D377B0:01C1ADB9] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: "Dylan Livingston" Use your better judgement. >There's my input on the subject. I've divulged my past to Peace out list >Dylan Thanks Dylan...You rock! I admire your candor...and the truth therin... I [only want to add one thing..USE YOU BEST JUDGEMENT!!!] lol..but true.. in some cases a t-shirt is a good thing..in some it doesn't matter..you all will have to decide...but as they say..a picture is worth a thousand words...so a footbag t-shirt logo is worth............... worth wearing [at least sometimes] :-) Jubal Hume From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 5 17:33:24 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA16691 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 17:33:24 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f218.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.218]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA15192 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:22:35 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:22:34 -0800 Received: from 161.184.26.246 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:22:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.26.246] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:22:34 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2002 21:22:34.0921 (UTC) FILETIME=[10251190:01C1ADC2] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jubal Wrote: >Thanks Dylan...You rock! Thanks Jubal...You too! >in some cases a t-shirt is a good thing..in some it doesn't matter..you all >will have to decide...but as they say..a picture is worth a thousand >words...so a footbag t-shirt logo is worth............... >worth wearing [at least sometimes] :-) I agree with this. Advertising is a great thing for if you are just figuring out what freestyle is. I also like the idea of advertising on shorts (As long as they aren't short shorts with boxers ;) But really, will it help matters much? In my "story" I don't think it would have changed any if those stylaz were wearing footbag shirts. Truth is, if a shredder is being intimidating and shunning the newbies, noone's going to care about their shirt, and if a person sees a sport that's intimidating, they'll probably avoid footbag.org for fear of being intimidated. That's what this is all about. It's the same topic as Ken came up with with the shirt thing. I personally think wearing an [Unlabeled] shirt doesn't attract or detract from the number of onlookers. But if you're being an asshole in the circle, you WILL scare people off. Since the days of my first pixie, I've learned that most shredders are very nice people. But there's lots out there who are elitist, and this is no way to expand the sport. Even if you're wearing a "Footbag is cool at footbag.org" t-shirt. If you want to spread the word outside of the circle, set up demos at school gyms and stuff. At these venues, when there's not as much personal connection to each person, advertising is a must. Whether it's a t-shirt, shorts, or posters, or whatever. But if you're shredding with four or five newbies in a circle, a shirt won't make much difference, you just have to be nice and impressive and tell those newbies where to go if they want to find out more. I'm rambling because I've already said all there is to say, but I feel like I missed something...hmm... Anyway, peace list. Dylan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 5 17:35:07 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA16765 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 17:35:07 -0800 Received: from moutvdom01.kundenserver.de (moutvdom01.kundenserver.de [195.20.224.200]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA18786 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 14:57:41 -0800 Received: from [195.20.224.204] (helo=mrvdom00.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom01.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16Xs3C-0002a2-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 23:57:26 +0100 Received: from [217.230.162.232] (helo=x) by mrvdom00.kundenserver.de with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16Xs3B-0006cU-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 23:57:26 +0100 Message-ID: <004401c1adcf$66e8c190$b77ba8c0@x> From: "Matthias Lino Schmidt" To: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 23:58:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org From: "Dylan Livingston" > Catwalk IS an Eclipse. As much as Eggbeater equals Eggplant. > It's just another way of wording it. > I like both names. I'm pretty sure Catwalk is a > more international name, 'Catwalk' is Philipp Schaefer's term for doing a certain move in a certain way. Nothing official, nothing agreed on, nothing international. > As far as the extra add goes, you see this sort of thing on all > sorts of sites. Pogo being counted as Symposium, XBD being included in the > set (Come on!), and Eclipse getting XBD for the delay. As far as the extra add goes, ............. I don't care! > In different > countries they use different ruling systems, Assuming you also mean Germany: We're trying to be as exact as everyone is! Speaking of a different ruling system is immensely exaggerated. Matthias. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 5 17:37:09 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA16862 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 17:37:09 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA23494 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:35:34 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GR109B01AZA2N@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 17:35:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GR109AEVAZA9W@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 17:35:34 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 17:18:16 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk To: freestyle Message-id: <3C5850F8@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From Dylan Livingston ===== >I'm hearing this all over the place. Catwalk IS an Eclipse. It's just >another way of wording it. I like both names. I'm pretty sure Catwalk is a >more international name, >In different countries they use different ruling systems, and you just have to pick the one you think defines the moves best. I can't believe how incredibly appauled I am at the idea that this might actually be true. For starters, if "catwalk" and Eclipse are truly the same move then one of them needs to go. Catwalk, as I remember was introduced a while back by somebody who didn't know it was already named ECLIPSE. Okay so now everyone knows it was already named eclipse and for the sake of consistency amongst the players and freestyle as a whole, it really needs to remain ONE NAME. So I call on all of you who have a moves list on the internet to remove Catwalk. Eclipse has been one of the longest standing tricks in the history of the sport and it need not be confused with anything else. As for the Judging thing. Don't just choose which ever one you like the best. Pay attention to the guidelines that are already laid out. There are always going to be problems with the add system. It is my personal feeling that moves involving X-dex and spinning paradox are far more of an issue than Eclipse. If their is a question about Eclipse being worth 4 adds because it ends in a crossbody delay then I say it is merely a question of whether or not the move is notated correctly. I say there is no dex in Eclipse. The hopping motion over the catch foot is a BODY move and not a dex. So it's really (again in my opinion) a body add> delay add> x-body add. "Oh Bother", said Pooh. Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 5 17:40:38 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA17013 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 17:40:38 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f166.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.166]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id AAA17121 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 00:03:37 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 00:03:37 -0800 Received: from 64.12.102.172 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Feb 2002 08:03:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.12.102.172] From: "Ethan Husted" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] CSS3 lowdown Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 01:03:36 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Feb 2002 08:03:37.0111 (UTC) FILETIME=[9D658270:01C1AE1B] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. Preparation CSS3 is in its final stages of completion. I would like to thank all who have contributed to the Symposium, we have an unbelievable amount of sponsorship this year. I am also proud to say we have secured two fine location sites for both days, well lit, good floors, good locations, and plenty of space. When I got the estimate of how many people were coming this year, I realized the Toadstool would simply not be able to hold this many people. With the two new locations, there will be more than enough room. Just a few people expected to be in attendence: Five time singles World champion, Peter Irish Two time singles World champion, Rick Reese Bazillion time World champion, Kenny Shultz World champion Scott Davidson Lon Smith Sunil Jani Ellis Piltz Richy Abshire Chad Devlahovich Yacine Merzouk Jon Schneider Brian Mckenzie GF Smoothie Paul Munger Steve Goldberg The Dallas crew The Chicago Inner Circle ...and about a million other people. There will be a party Saturday night beginning at 9pm, at my friend Sven Jorgensen's juggling and dance studio, located near the host hotel, on the other side of Crossroads mall. More info will be given out the day of the party at Mt. Zion. A very special thanks to Rick Reese, whose extremely generous contribution has helped complete the prize status for the tourney. Thanx Rippin'! To be very clear again, NEITHER DAY OF THE SYMPOSIUM WILL BE HELD AT THE TOADSTOOL PLAYHOUSE. Day 1 will now be held at Mt. Zion Church and School. Driving directions from the host hotel go as follows: Go north on 28th until you reach Valmont, about a mile down. Take a left. About a mile down Valmont will cross 19th street, and automatically become Balsam. Keep going straight. About four blocks up on your left will be Mt. Zion. Turn left on 17th street and park in the school lot. The sports facility will be right there. If you are walking from the Golden Buff hotel, (it is a half an hour walk) go north on 28th to Pearl St. and take a left. Follow Pearl towards the mountains for about half a mile. When you reach the cross streets of Pearl and 20th, take a right. You will follow 20th up over a hill, directly after which 20th will automatically turn into 19th. At the bottom of the hill will be the cross street of 19th and Balsam. Take a left and go up four blocks. Zion will be on your left. Another four blocks up is Broadway, and many places to get food. Well, that's it for right now. I will post again if and when any other details come up. Boulder Blades has been working on this for many months now. We look forward to seeing all of you here and shredding. late redredredredredredshredzredredredredredethanredredredredredredredredred From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 5 17:43:50 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA17092 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 17:43:50 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f191.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.191]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA28254 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 08:01:34 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 08:01:34 -0800 Received: from 206.15.253.3 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:01:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [206.15.253.3] From: "Randy Magliocca" To: redshredz@hotmail.com, freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Want ride to Colorado Shred Symposium Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:01:26 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Feb 2002 16:01:34.0030 (UTC) FILETIME=[622C16E0:01C1AE5E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello my name is Randy"The Magician"Magliocca. I really want to go to the CSS but Im only 14 and cant drive, and no one can give me a ride. I am asking if there is someone going to the event that could give me a ride. I live in Nevada City CA. There must be someone going through there that could give me a ride. Well if you can or know someone that can, please email me. Randy Magliocca >From: "Ethan Husted" >Subject: [announce] Third Annual Colorado Shred Symposium - Feb. 23-24 > >I am honored to announce the final details of the Colorado Shred Symposium >3 >have been completed. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:29:00 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA11804 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:29:00 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f139.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.139]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA21675 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 15:53:03 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 15:40:59 -0800 Received: from 142.173.195.45 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 23:40:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [142.173.195.45] From: "Rob Fuller" To: shags125@hotmail.com Cc: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:40:55 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2002 23:40:59.0732 (UTC) FILETIME=[6632A940:01C1ADD5] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dillan Wrote ........................ >I'm a newbie. I can't do very many moves, and those I can do, I can rarely >link to other moves. I spent years "hacking". Which means I could barely >toe-stall, I couldn't do a flying clipper, and all my friends were the >same. > Sure, we had a blast, and it killed a ton of time at lunch and stuff, but >back then I didn't know that freestyle existed. I'm talking years. >Here's the funky part. IN A DIFFERENT PART OF THE SCHOOL, THERE WERE >INCREDIBLE SHREDDERS SHOWING THEIR STUFF, BUT ONLY TO THEMSELVES. >When I noticed this, I was impressed, but a little cheesed at their elitist >attitude. Picking an isolated part of school to hide away and practice, >while mere meters away there's guys struggling with foot stalls and >wondering if there's more to the sport. Etc............ Firstly, since I know Jamie personally and play in an "isolated" part of my school. I have to say your going way out of line to "shun" then for what they do and assuming they have an "elitist" attitude. Firstly, do you ever find the most crowded place where you can barely move, your closed in and couldn't even kick with control because of the people walking past? No, you would find somewhere were you can play without hassel. Our principal at my school takes bags away from kids, so in winter, are we being snobs because we go somewhere with minimal people? You've played with us before inside a racquetball court, so your an elitist snob too I guess for not sharing your gift with the world. What I'm trying to get at is that people have reasons for doing things, and just because there are people near by who aren't quite as "advanced" or serious about the sport as they are doesn't mean they should go invade them or be expected to initiate anything. (this could also tie into the "hippy" stench issue) Just my 2 dollars and 25 and a half cents. Rob Fuller From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:32:19 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA11941 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:32:19 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f90.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.90]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA18044 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 18:07:16 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 18:07:12 -0800 Received: from 207.194.21.34 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Feb 2002 02:07:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.194.21.34] From: "Jonathan Zaleski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Q's about Pixie Backspinning, Triple-Dex, and more Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 18:07:12 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2002 02:07:12.0500 (UTC) FILETIME=[FD969340:01C1AEB2] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Original Subject: man, I just cant stop thinkin about footbag What is up my fellow shredders, I got some questions, Has any pixie backspinning stuff been hit? I had pixie backspinning osis and mirage on my foot, its pretty damn hard, props to anyone who's even hit a pixie backspinning toe stall. I know butterfly twirl's been hit , but what about butterfly swivel, and if it has, has spinning ducking butterfly swivel been hit, or any set into a ducking butterfly swivvel? That would be like eight adds of pure sickness. Has whirling twirl or whirling swivel been hit? Gyro whirr? lol, im just recieving all the footbag emails as i right this:p good timing jon.... Are there any triple dexing sets? maybe pixie quantum atomic(pixie sailing) Ive also been playin around with a fairy same side quantum set. I havent hit anything out of it yet, but it seems pretty possible. And does anyone know the prices of richie bags in canadian One more thing, whats desien? Ive racked my brain of all my footbag questions.... fer now. So later days Jonzy From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:33:01 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA12004 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:33:01 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f47.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.47]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA22226 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 19:26:37 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 19:26:37 -0800 Received: from 63.20.91.245 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Feb 2002 03:26:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.20.91.245] From: "Glenn "BoZ" Gentzke" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 22:26:37 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2002 03:26:37.0710 (UTC) FILETIME=[15DFEAE0:01C1AEBE] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From what i understand, the eclipse involves an op [dex] after the inside catch, therefore it would have to be a dex, just as a butterfly gets a dex, how could it not? if the eclipse is caught in a toe delay, then there shouldnt be a xbody add, but if caught in a clipper it should get the xbody add. please correct if im wrong but it seems that the eclipse is essentially a mid-air inside delay to butterfly (i could be very wrong) but this is coming from the jobs: set > jump [bod] > inside [del] (Release) > op out [dex] > catch [del] (or clip [xbd] [del]) i dont think i have that right since wiht the clipper it should have 5 adds counting a midair delay? reply privately with corrections. As far as names go, cat walk could be for an eclipse caught in clipper? im too new to the sport to dictate names (though i still want spanto to be known (grrrrrrr)) so ill drop that where it lies. Piece out kiddies ~Glenn "BoZ" Gentzke From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:34:40 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA12075 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:34:40 -0800 Received: from femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.144]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA23400 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 20:03:33 -0800 Received: from matt ([24.182.66.10]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20020206040318.GLZA20324.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@matt> for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 20:03:18 -0800 Message-ID: <000b01c1aec4$2db145a0$9fe9b00a@muellerdmn1> From: Matt Mueller To: Subject: [freestyle] Want ride to Colorado Shred Symposium (2) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:10:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If anyone is going through or near (southern) Iowa let me know. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:35:24 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA12133 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:35:24 -0800 Received: from femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.128]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA23475 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 20:05:14 -0800 Received: from matt ([24.182.66.10]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20020206040514.QBVP18525.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@matt> for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 20:05:14 -0800 Message-ID: <001901c1aec4$7299f540$9fe9b00a@muellerdmn1> From: Matt Mueller To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:12:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org But catwalk is a better (and more fitting in my opinion) name. Dont want to start an argument though. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:36:02 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA12186 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:36:02 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA26477 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:28:39 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GR302801LZRTS@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 05 Feb 2002 23:28:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GR30285BLZROO@clem.mscd.edu>; Tue, 05 Feb 2002 23:28:39 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 23:11:18 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk To: freestyle@footbag.org, Matt Kain Lewandowski Message-id: <3C593A2F@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Okay, thanks to Matt Kain I've finally seen the video of "Catwalk". I've been doing Eclipse that way for about 5 years and I still think it's an Eclipse. My opinion is still that there is no need to name it something else to distinguish it. In times like these I say we stick to terms like "crispy" and "original recipe" to distinguish them. Just say you hit an Eclipse. If someone really gives a sh't how then tell them Crispy or Original. flog me with a spoon, Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:36:39 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA12224 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:36:39 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f193.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.193]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA17310 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:20:05 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:20:04 -0800 Received: from 161.184.27.54 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Feb 2002 19:20:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.27.54] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 12:20:04 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2002 19:20:04.0922 (UTC) FILETIME=[4807B9A0:01C1AF43] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Brad Kaplan Wrote: >I can't believe how incredibly appauled I am at the idea that this might >actually be true. > For starters, if "catwalk" and Eclipse are truly the same move then >one >of them needs to go. This is an interesting point. I've seen this before too. Here's a list of moves with more than one name. I urge freestylers to write me and decide which name deserves to stay, and which we should throw out, or use for a different move. I'll post the results in a week or two. Just remember, if Catwalk goes, several stylaz who have been hitting this for years may take offence. Anyway, here's a few examples: Pincher/Squeeze for back of knee stall Eclipse/Catwalk for mid-air reverse hopover release Paste/Egg Mixer for Pixie Pickup Rasmus/Skull Smasher for Atomic Ducking Mirage Wet Dream/Flaming Tard for Stepping Eggbeater (Flaming tard was thrown out for not being politically correct) Aeon Flux/Nucleosis for Pdox Flux Fearosis(Ferocious)/Forque for Fairy Torque (Forquelift is Fairy ducking torque) Neutron Smasher/Johnny Quest for Spin Pdox Atom Smasher Pixie Warrior/Phoenix for Pixie ducking Butterfly S.P.A.S.(Spaz)/Terrasmasher for Symp. Pdox Atom Smasher Void/Lotus for Spin Pdox Drifter Id/Your Mom for Atomic Ducking Double over down And that's all I noticed on my move-list. I won't delete Catwalk yet, cuz it seems there's a lot of moves that are known by different names depending who you ask. I know Eclipse is sort of engrained in most of us, but I want to see if people take offence to the deletion of Catwalk. I think that might be the case, but we'll see! Reply directly and I'll post the results. Maybe we can clean this up a little. Peace out list! Dylan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:38:54 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA12385 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:38:54 -0800 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA30209 for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2002 16:21:56 -0800 From: Matthew Cross Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id z.11a.bc57fa1 (4413) for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2002 19:21:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <11a.bc57fa1.2998689d@aol.com> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 19:21:49 EST Subject: [freestyle] Unusual Surface delay To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 7 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dear Freestyle Community, http://ludo88.free.fr/footbag/videos/video/dickstl.mpg I just feel like everyone should know about this so they can start putting it in their routines. Go France ;) Matthew Cross Rochester Footbag Association Rochester, NY From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:39:58 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA12469 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:39:58 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f18.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.18]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id FAA01526 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 05:37:28 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 05:37:27 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:37:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Stepping negates paradox in some moves? Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 05:37:27 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Feb 2002 13:37:27.0719 (UTC) FILETIME=[6975FB70:01C1B3CA] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org As my knee slowly gets better [whew] I am starting to mess around a bit... I was thinking of a spins negation of paradox...and how you have to switch legs to get paradox...then I started thinking..[uh oh]..:-) in some moves [oh no, here it comes] that stepping also seems to negate paradox..whereas fairy enhances paradox [even though it is not a "true" paradox] IE: fairy mirage if a blur is done side by side with a paradox mirage..you can feel the difference.. ..comments?..anyone? From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 11:46:13 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA15146 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:46:13 -0800 Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA14891 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:40:38 -0800 Received: from derrick.mlerf.org ([207.160.174.20] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 819247 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:35:43 -0600 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:42:06 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unusual Surface delay Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <11a.bc57fa1.2998689d@aol.com> Message-Id: <98573BB8-1FF0-11D6-98AA-003065BA9A0E@fogles.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sunday, February 10, 2002, at 06:21 PM, Matthew Cross wrote: > I just feel like everyone should know about this so they can start > putting it in their routines. As list moderator, I wondered for a moment whether or not I should post this. But... I just had to, since this move may be my one great claim to 'move first' fame! I, the funky chicken, began my '96 Worlds routine with this move, which I named the 'stroke'. Judges at the time saw it as a 2-add move: unusual surface and delay (actually, it's more of a roll than a delay I think). -Derrick PS - Dylan, I expect to see this move in the next revision of your moves list PSS - The kick version of the move is called the 'poke'. PSSS - It might not have actually been '96, but it certainly should be remembered that way PSSSS - end of this discussion thread. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Feb 13 13:45:15 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA05313 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:45:15 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f268.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.143]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA26975 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:54:59 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:54:55 -0800 Received: from 208.141.176.69 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:54:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [208.141.176.69] From: "Jim Penske" To: soleairpro@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Stepping negates paradox in some moves? Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:54:55 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Feb 2002 23:54:55.0679 (UTC) FILETIME=[ABC40CF0:01C1B420] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: "Jubal Hume" >To: freestyle@footbag.org >Subject: [freestyle] Stepping negates paradox in some moves? >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 05:37:27 -0800 > > whereas fairy enhances paradox [even though it is not a "true" >paradox] IE: fairy mirage I think that a lot of fairy moves feel much more paradox than blurry moves. Shouldn't there be a paradox add for moves like fairy op torque, fairy op drifter, fairy op blender, ect. After all there is one hell of a hip pivot in there. Jim Penske From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Feb 13 13:44:35 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA05284 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:44:35 -0800 Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA20045 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:16:49 -0800 Received: from attbi.com ([12.238.156.205]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020212211649.YSOT2951.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:16:49 +0000 Message-ID: <3C698752.1752AE7E@attbi.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:21:22 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derrics1@attbi.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Q's about Pixie Backspinning, Triple-Dex, and more References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jonathan Zaleski wrote: > > One more thing, whats desien? Pixie legbeater (where the first two dexes are done at the same time). Frank Gutowski was the first person I saw hitting this back at '99 Worlds. What ever happened to that guy? -Derric From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Feb 13 13:46:18 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA05381 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:46:18 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f179.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.179]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA28022 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:25:15 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:25:15 -0800 Received: from 161.184.26.208 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:25:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.26.208] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: soleairpro@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Stepping negates paradox in some moves? Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:25:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Feb 2002 00:25:15.0439 (UTC) FILETIME=[E86D63F0:01C1B424] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sorry. This scares me a lot. Paradox is already hard enough to understand. Please don't make it harder. I think Blur is harder than Stepping Pickup, and although the dex might be a little easier in blur than pdox mirage, it is still paradox because you still need to move your leg into position. You can't set the bag to make the dex like a normal mirage either way, so it's paradox. Ok. Dylan >From: "Jubal Hume" > > As my knee slowly gets better [whew] I am starting to mess around a >bit... I was thinking of a spins negation of paradox...and how you have to >switch legs to get paradox...then I started thinking..[uh oh]..:-) >in some moves [oh no, here it comes] that stepping also seems to negate >paradox..whereas fairy enhances paradox [even though it is not a "true" >paradox] IE: fairy mirage >if a blur is done side by side with a paradox mirage..you can feel the >difference.. > >..comments?..anyone? From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Feb 13 13:46:56 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA05425 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:46:56 -0800 Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA08374 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:57:18 -0800 Received: from c1277828a ([12.231.62.9]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020213075710.SZEC1214.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@c1277828a>; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:57:10 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c1b464$7f120060$96c8000a@sttln1.wa.home.com> From: "Alex Zerbe" To: "Dylan Livingston" , References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:00:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In my opinion an eclipse and a catwalk are two different moves. From the video I've seen a catwalk does not get a body add because the bag is still delayed when you land. It is my understanding that you only get a body if you execute a complete contact while in the air. This is the technical difference seperating the two moves Alex From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 14 09:01:40 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA08002 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:01:40 -0800 Received: from ecsmtp01.ec.rockwell.com ([199.191.58.7]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA05982 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:54:59 -0800 From: daniel.klokow@rockwellfirstpoint.com Subject: [freestyle] PSTOFF room space? To: freestyle@footbag.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.7 March 21, 2001 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:54:05 -0600 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on ECSMTP01/EC/Rockwell(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 02/13/2002 03:52:42 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sup, Im looking for others that might be going out to PSTOFF Jam who are in need of roommates. Let me know asap if you would like to split a room with me and possibly one or two other CIC members. We are driving out Friday night and will need a place to sleep that night and Sat night, We are driving back Sunday after some shred. Please contact me personally if you can help out. Any floor space near the sight at someones house would be awesome too. Thanks, and I will see you ALL at CSS3!! PS.. Is anyone from Boulder going to makin any trips to the airport on Friday?? I would generously repay anyone who could hook me up with a ride to the host hotel. Or, if others are arriving at the same time (1:47pm) we could share a cab to save some doh. Again contact me personally. Peace. Thanks :) Dan Klokow Chicago Inner Circle Home - pornstar2713@prodigy.net Work - daniel.klokow@rockwellfirstpoint.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 14 09:02:58 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA08051 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:02:58 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f272.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.16.147]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA07059 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:11:36 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:11:35 -0800 Received: from 68.80.0.8 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:11:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.80.0.8] From: "David Tomlinson" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Our first competition! Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:11:35 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Feb 2002 22:11:35.0378 (UTC) FILETIME=[6682F320:01C1B4DB] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list, Today we held our first annual footbag competiton at lower merion high school!!! we had it on the morning announcments for a few days and about 20-30 people where there. Mainly people at our school just kick, so most people mocked the idea of a competition. We had to tend to their needs to get more people to come, so we had an endurance event along with our sick3 and open shred. The guitar and drum circle club decided to come down into the gym and jam with us. It all went really well. The school decided to give out prizes for the endurance and open shred; $20 gift certificates to borders!!! Our tax dollars at work!!! Just telling all of you, david tomlinson From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 14 09:03:37 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA08086 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:03:37 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA09805 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:55:05 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GRH06501UBOOM@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:55:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GRH06HATUBN6U@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:54:59 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:37:28 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Stepping negates paradox in some moves? To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3C5E1F8B@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I don't know where the subject line comes from, because I haven't seen anything to support it other than fairie moves are paradoxish which makes no sense for the title. I'm a supporter of Spinning Paradox. I'm also a supporter of X-dex. As for fairie paradoxes... I'm skeptical. Here is what I think would be required to make such a thing fly. First, the definition of paradox would have to be changed to omit the necessity of the set beginning from a x-body position. Second, it would have to include a statement to the effect that if the set is not from x-body then a dex or body movement could maneuver the bag into a x-body position where it is possible to achieve a paradox with an additional hip-pivoting dexterity. Wow, that almost sounds plausible. Come to the Shred Symposium, Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 14 09:05:07 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA08187 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:05:07 -0800 Received: from smtprelay7.dc2.adelphia.net (smtprelay7.dc2.adelphia.net [64.8.50.39]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA12814 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:54:03 -0800 Received: from alex ([24.50.240.213]) by smtprelay7.dc2.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 smtprelay7 Dec 7 2001 09:58:59) with SMTP id GRHX1R00.SSH for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:53:51 -0500 Message-ID: <001201c1b4e9$457bb780$0201a8c0@clvhoh.adelphia.net> From: "alex ciarlillo" To: Subject: [freestyle] Different bag comparisons? Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well my revolution was recently lost/stolen not sure which but I am going to buy a new footbag. Before my revolution I had a dirtbag and I liked it but the suede seemed to thick and it seemed to quickly run out of sand. My friend has Sand Bag that I got him, 8 panel super thin suede, I enjoyed it but it seemed very 'floppy' and didnt hold shape very well. As for the revolution it was a good bag but it seemed to small and not as stallable as either of the other two tho I only had it for about a month so it may not have been broken in? Anyway at this point I am gonna go back to a dirt bag but was wondering if anyone had opinions on these which also look good: The Sandmaster (footmart) or The Sandblaster (footmart). I dont think I am quite ready to take that step of paying more than 15 bucks for a bag since I am still quite a newbie but any other suggestions under/around 15 bucks would be appreciated. Thanks, alex From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 14 09:05:54 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA08213 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:05:54 -0800 Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA18569 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:40:34 -0800 Received: from sdn-ar-004nynyorp280.dialsprint.net ([168.191.122.210] helo=0017407414) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16bAsu-0007nU-00 for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:40:29 -0800 Message-ID: <003901c1b4f8$5608f040$d27abfa8@0017407414> From: "Josh Penney" To: References: <200202132326.PAA11468@llic.net> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:38:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Zerbe! You Rock! > In my opinion an eclipse and a catwalk are two different moves. From the > video I've seen a catwalk does not get a body add because the bag is still > delayed when you land. It is my understanding that you only get a body if > you execute a complete contact while in the air. > This is the technical difference seperating the two moves While I agree that they are different for the reason you specified; I must mention the discrepancy between your "complete contact" and IFC. The ifc rules state an add contact is "either a kick or a delay, made while executing a move with at least one add". No mention is given to the release; so there we go- two versions for the definition of "contact". For that matter, as far as composition rules are concerned, paradon-barfly-down double-double over down are all the same move. Any judges out there feel the same way? Any suggestions for an addendum to the composition rules or a definition of contact? From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 14 09:06:52 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA08311 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:06:52 -0800 Received: from web20106.mail.yahoo.com (web20106.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.43]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id SAA21265 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:38:10 -0800 Message-ID: <20020214023808.38124.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.249.152.32] by web20106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:38:08 PST Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:38:08 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Reile Subject: Re: [freestyle] Stepping negates paradox in some moves? To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I agree that fairy moves or atomic move have more of a hip crank, or paradox feel, than most blurry moves, but I think that was what x-dex was meant for. Rather than altering the already confusing paradox add, which has been well-defined, I think we should really start implementing the x-dex add. Eric Reile CIC > I think that a lot of fairy moves feel much more > paradox than blurry moves. > Shouldn't there be a paradox add for moves like > fairy op torque, fairy op > drifter, fairy op blender, ect. After all there is > one hell of a hip pivot > in there. > Jim Penske From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 14 09:07:59 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA08420 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:07:59 -0800 Received: from mta1-3.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-44.outblaze.com [205.158.62.44]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA03863 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 06:59:18 -0800 From: Matt Stroman Received: from ws1-8.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-59.outblaze.com [205.158.62.59]) by mta1-3.us4.outblaze.com (8.11.6/8.11.6-srs) with SMTP id g1EExIU01397 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:59:18 GMT Received: (qmail 29141 invoked by uid 1001); 14 Feb 2002 14:59:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20020214145918.29140.qmail@mail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [208.209.201.2] by ws1-8.us4.outblaze.com with http for llamarama@mail.com; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:59:17 +0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:59:17 +0800 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies X-Originating-Ip: 208.209.201.2 X-Originating-Server: ws1-8.us4.outblaze.com Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Just wanted to add my thoughts... While me and my friends are hardly "incredible" shredders, we are fairly skilled, and can hold our own as freestylers. We kick in an open part of the school, on a daily basis, and have seriously tried to get other interested in the sport, even holding a school-sponsored tournament a few days ago. However, most newbies are happy just being newbies, and some people have even gone so far as to tell us that we "take the fun out of hacking." Sacrilege. Advanced freestyling isn't really an intuitive thing, at least not at first... there's a whole school of obscure skills you need to learn before you can even land a mirage. It takes dedication that a lot of people just don't want to put in, especially if they just want to kick at lunch or whatever. I guess I'm trying to say, a lot of people just aren't interested in doing anything more than basic kicking, and as much as I'd like them to be more advanced, we should just be happy they're into the sport at all. So freestylers, get out there and make yourself visible; if only one out of ten newbies gets interested in shredding, it makes it all worth it. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 14 19:02:22 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA01207 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:02:22 -0800 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA11165 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:58:17 -0800 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA118022 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:53:24 -0600 Received: from mindspring.com (sig-9-15-19-46.mts.ibm.com [9.15.19.46]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g1EHwD814374 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:58:13 -0500 Message-ID: <3C6BFAEA.DB7FA9F2@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:59:06 -0500 From: Ernest Crvich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] CSS3 transportation tips References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > PS.. Is anyone from Boulder going to makin any trips to the airport on > Friday?? I would generously repay anyone who could hook me up with a ride > to the host hotel. Or, if others are arriving at the same time (1:47pm) we > could share a cab to save some doh. Again contact me personally. Peace. I personally won't be able to play chauffeur, but I can tell everyone the cheapest way to get to Boulder from DIA is the bus, which I use myself when going on trips...it's only $8, and it runs every hour (and takes about an hour and a half to get here). The fine folks at the airport info desks, etc., can give you details on where exactly to catch it (and which one it is). Here's the web site, the bus line you want is the AB: http://www.rtd-denver.com/skyRide/index.html If the bus driver is naked, wait for the next one. Once you get to the Boulder bus station (the last stop), it's about a 20-30 min walk to the hotel, or a 5 min cab ride. Or I'm sure one of the many local intra-Boulder bus routes (Hop/Skip/Jump/Leap/Bound/whatever) can get you there as well, so you can inquire at the bus station about the simplest/cheapest way to the Best Western. Bring your bathing suit, but don't forget the frostburn lotion. -- Ernest M. Crvich Boulder, CO Have footbag, will shred From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 15 18:59:38 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA09940 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:59:38 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA27154 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:48:02 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GRL02O01AZSGV@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:47:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GRL02N2XAZSXU@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:47:52 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:30:19 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] CSS3 New Event To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3C5F616A@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ladies and Gentleman, I am pleased to announce that we will be pilot-testing a new Shred Event at the CSS3. Rippin' Rick Reese has been toying with the idea for a long time and we've come up with a decent rule system to judge it. "Most Rippin' Run" This is a longest run event. Must be Guiltless. First Drop ends your run. The same trick may not be done more than twice in a row (i.e. Ripwalk, Ripwalk, Ripwalk is not allowed) Butterfly, Osis, Pdx Mirage or any 3 trick combination of the three moves must be broken by a fourth unique move. (i.e. osis, osis, butterfly must be followed by something other than another B.O.P) Every 10 unique 4 add tricks adds 5 seconds to your overall time Every unique 5 add trick adds 2 seconds to your overall time 6 add = 3 secs. 7 add = 4 secs etc.... Every Guiiltless player is encouraged to Compete. This IS a Prize Event. See you all in a week, Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 15 19:00:28 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA09986 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 19:00:28 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA27247 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:51:38 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GRL02T01B61M1@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:51:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GRL02NGOB61XU@clem.mscd.edu>; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:51:37 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:34:04 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Stepping negates paradox in some moves? To: Eric Reile , freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3C5F6240@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From Eric Reile ===== >I agree that fairy moves or atomic move have more of a >hip crank, or paradox feel, than most blurry moves, >but I think that was what x-dex was meant for. Ahhh Yes, but x-dex does not cover Fairie. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 15 19:04:26 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA10182 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 19:04:26 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f124.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.124]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA32030 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:01:37 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:01:34 -0800 Received: from 64.12.97.7 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:01:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.12.97.7] From: "ethan husted" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] CSS3 - more transportation tips, directions Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:01:34 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Feb 2002 22:01:34.0290 (UTC) FILETIME=[550FB320:01C1B66C] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey all. yes, the AB will take you directly to boulder from the airport. from the bus terminal in boulder, the 205 will take you down canyon st. to the mall, which is very close to the hotel (Arapahoe and 28th). you might want to jump off the bus before it crosses 28th into the mall area. when you get to the terminal, feel free to call me as well. 720 562 0144. also, it would be a good idea to go to the events page for this tourney ( http://www.footbag.org/events/show/1008128589 ) and print out the directions to the new sites, (1st day, Mt. Zion, 2nd day the UMC Glenn Miller Ball Room). Some of you have been to the day 2 site, but no one has been to Mt. Zion before. there are detailed instructions as to how to get to either spot from the hotel or the 36. it will be helpful to have on you. i look forward to seeing all of you here next weekend. have a safe trip in. late red From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 15 19:06:18 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA10328 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 19:06:18 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA01291 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:00:13 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GRL02001ABRJN@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:33:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GRL0207OABQ42@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:33:26 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:15:53 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] CSS3 Rides From Airport To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3C5F5E7B@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I will be making 2 trips to Denver International Airport on Friday Feb. 22. The times of those trips will depend on how many of you get back to me with your arrival times. I will not be making any trips after 5 p.m. So get back to me privately ASAP. I will post the pick up times by Monday. Later, Brad 303-477-3308 From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat Feb 16 08:39:46 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA27316 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:39:46 -0800 Received: from mta11.onebox.com (mta11.onebox.com [64.68.76.121]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA17248 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:55:31 -0800 Received: from onebox.com ([10.1.101.9]) by mta11.onebox.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with SMTP id <20020216075508.LVNX29441.mta11.onebox.com@onebox.com> for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:55:08 -0800 Received: from [63.155.152.152] by onebox.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:55:08 -0800 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:55:08 -0800 Subject: [freestyle] X dexes From: "Jon Nagela" CC: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20020216075508.LVNX29441.mta11.onebox.com@onebox.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I noticed Brad Kaplans comment on fairies not getting an x dex. 1st of all there is no type of dex which cant add up toward x adds, to get x dex add you are gonna have to cross the x axis as imagined on a graph a minimum of 4 times---thats what x dex is, it has nothing to do with "complete" dexes. Theoretically you could do a bunch of so called 1/2 dexes in one move and you would get x add as long as you crossed the x axis 4 times. While some sets arent x dex qualifiers by themselves doesnt mean they cant lead to x adds-even stepping and pixies can count towards x adds depending on what you do after the initial dex. I do believe fairy sets can qualify for x dex adds as the fairy dex does often cross the x axis twice. The pixie set crosses the x dex twice too when the bag comes from pixie set to opp foot x body. Fairy/atomic/nuclear/quantum and even pixie sets are all x dex qualifiers depending on what u do after them. Examples: XDEX MOVES- fairy opp mirage/illusion, fairy same illusion, atomic opp mirage/illusion, tapping same illusion, toe blur, triple atw- yes, it crosses the x axis 5 times, atomic opp mirage, pixie opp eggbeater- it crosses the x axis 4 times, pixie dlo both same and opp cross the x axis 4 times,and smog is alot closer in difficulty to paradox torque than it is to pixie butterfly, paradox atom smasher gets x dex add too. Non x dexmoves- Fairy same mirage- the fairy on this one doesn't have that return to original position motion there you bring your foot back across the x axis- crosses x axis only 2 times, paradox tapping same mirage-same thing, smear, pixie drifter- the pixie set only crosses the x axis once the drifter twice for a total of 3. So to imagine x dexes think of a graph with the bag travelling straight up and down the x axis. Later Jon Nagela From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat Feb 16 09:01:44 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA28269 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:01:44 -0800 Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA27521 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:44:27 -0800 Received: from dfiatx96-187.dfiatx.dsl.gtei.net ([4.3.96.187] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 831496 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:40:25 -0600 Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:46:00 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Stepping negates paradox in some moves? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3C5F6240@webmail> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Over the years, I've argued for/against just about everything on every side of the 'great paradox debate'. Sometimes because I believed it, sometimes just because I like to annoy people by arguing with them 8-). But... I have a very simple explanation for what paradox is: *** Paradox = The Set Matters *** Simple as that. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat Feb 16 09:03:13 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA28340 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:03:13 -0800 Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA28231 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:00:38 -0800 Received: from dfiatx96-187.dfiatx.dsl.gtei.net ([4.3.96.187] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 831632 for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:56:36 -0600 Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:02:12 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Derrick Fogle To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <003901c1b4f8$5608f040$d27abfa8@0017407414> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 07:38 PM, Josh Penney wrote: > Any suggestions for an addendum to the composition rules or a > definition of > contact? Rules, rules, rules. Gawd, I used to be *so* into rules! But now I think a little practical application of intelligence might be a better answer. Judge what you see. If a contact was obviously made as a flying contact, it is a flying move and should get awarded so, whether or not the bag is carried back down to the ground. Being able to see and evaluate what's really happening, instead of using rules which never really address the full spectrum of possibilities, is a wonderful thing. I highly recommend it. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 17 06:47:25 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA29182 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 06:47:25 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f13.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.13]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA29566 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:27:28 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:27:28 -0800 Received: from 12.46.92.90 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 17:27:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.46.92.90] From: "Calvin Brash" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Club-n-Stuff Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:27:28 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2002 17:27:28.0384 (UTC) FILETIME=[34F35800:01C1B70F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Greetings, A new club will be starting up in Kalispell, MT.(At the high school FHS) Times will be after school as well as at lunch. Send me an e-mail if interested in more info or wish to play some freestyle. Also, I have a few questions and I would really be super thankfull if they could be answered! >From a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being worst ever and 10 being the best) would a person who can only do stuff like clippers, pixie, leg over, pick up, osis, Xbd sole delay, butterfly, and stuff like that be considered a big time newbie, like a 2? hehe well, Good luck guys on the x-dex ;) Someone wana chat some time? ( icey_footbag@hotmail.com ) Calvin Brash "The evil newbie" ;P From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 17 06:48:18 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA29200 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 06:48:18 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f157.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.157]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA09947 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 16:10:29 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 15:59:27 -0800 Received: from 209.52.223.192 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 23:59:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.52.223.192] From: "Jonathan Zaleski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Anyone else hit this? Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 15:59:26 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2002 23:59:27.0117 (UTC) FILETIME=[F73533D0:01C1B745] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, I hit my first six add about a week ago:)! But I have no idea if anyone else has hit it before,or what its called,so if you know, tell me. Here it is: Its kinda like a fairy super sonic(fairy double peeking osis) Toe>same out[dex]>backspin[bod]>backspin[bod]>backspin>[bod]>same clip[xbd][del] Jonzy PS. I hit it cleaner than a freshly cut golf course. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 17 06:50:23 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA29240 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 06:50:23 -0800 Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA24706 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 01:28:59 -0800 From: MatthewL329@aol.com Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id z.8a.1420a7fd (15875); Sun, 17 Feb 2002 04:28:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from web27.aolmail.aol.com (web27.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.3]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v83.35) with ESMTP id MAILINID72-0217042848; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 04:28:48 -0500 Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 04:28:48 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Different bag comparisons? To: , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <8a.1420a7fd.29a0d1d0@aol.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Alex Ciarillo said : I dont think I am quite ready to take that step of paying more than 15 bucks for a bag since I am still quite a newbie but any other suggestions under/around 15 bucks would be appreciated. Dear Alex / other bag buyers, What constitutes "around" 15 bucks? I can't help but endorse Mike Wilson footbags (and I have the feeling that a lot of people will back me up on this). Wilson bags, although SLIGHTLY more expensive than the bags you're looking for, are spectacular bags, and when you take into account that you'll be paying for shipping on the FootMart bags, I'm sure they'd cost just the same. Wilson bags are the standard 32 panel soccer ball design. You can order them in custom colors, you can specify whether you like a larger or smaller, fuller or floppier bag... All custom. I've been using Wilson bags for over a year now. Everyone in my club uses them, and many of my friends use them. Frankly, I've been disappointed with a few more expensive custom bags over the past few years, whereas the Wilsons have just gotten better over the past year or so. Mike Wilson's e-mail address is mwil3@yahoo.com, or at least it was last time I checked. It's worth the little bit more money than those synthetic suede sand bags. SYNTHETIC SUEDE = BAD. Sorry for the long preach about Wilson bags... I just really like them, and I hate seeing newbies spare themselves a few dollars to get a piece of junk footbag. Matthew Cross Rochester Footbag Association Rochester, NY From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 17 10:05:22 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA03247 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:05:22 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f92.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.92]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA03084 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:59:39 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:48:30 -0800 Received: from 63.20.88.144 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:48:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.20.88.144] From: "Glenn Gentzke" To: freestyle@footbag.org, sadar@adelphia.net Subject: Re: [freestyle] Different bag comparisons? Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:48:30 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Feb 2002 17:48:30.0820 (UTC) FILETIME=[4FD58A40:01C1B7DB] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I know that Matt Cross was responsible for my push towards wilson bags, but they are great. Especially for a newbie, Id request a larger bag from him, since his bags are smaller than golf balls standard. I dont see much of a problem wiht ultra suede to be honest. as nice as facile is, I had a few ultra suede bags when I started up, and the bags that my friend and I make and sell are thin ultra suede and they play very well, for freestyle and kicking. I personally feel that a slightly larger bag is better for a newbie because its easier to see and work on precision delays and such. Well that's all I have to say. ~Glenn "BoZ" Gentzke From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 18 14:35:51 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA18259 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:35:51 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f148.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.148]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA04104 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:36:53 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:36:53 -0800 Received: from 65.27.112.254 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:36:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.27.112.254] From: "Chris Harry" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Wichita KS footbag club "kickin it" accepting members Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:36:53 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Feb 2002 18:36:53.0627 (UTC) FILETIME=[120ABCB0:01C1B7E2] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Anyone in Wichita KS who is interested in helping me start a club here, please e mail me back at roadofpain@Hotmail.com or you can join up at footbag.org... its about time we got a club in Wichita, anyone interested in joining who lives in the Wichita area is welcome, also if anyone knows of any footbag clubs that already exist locally here in Wichita, please let me know about it, thanks a lot! -chris harry From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 18 14:37:19 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA18289 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:37:19 -0800 Received: from c007.snv.cp.net (c007-h011.c007.snv.cp.net [209.228.33.217]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id XAA26671 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:16:33 -0800 Received: (cpmta 9013 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2002 23:16:14 -0800 Received: from 64.194.176.97 (HELO ghostpirate) by smtp.directvinternet.com (209.228.33.217) with SMTP; 17 Feb 2002 23:16:14 -0800 X-Sent: 18 Feb 2002 07:16:14 GMT Message-ID: <002501c1b84c$144cfe60$61b0c240@ghostpirate> Reply-To: "Chris Pinkus" From: "Chris Pinkus" To: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Anyone else hit this? Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:15:43 -0800 Organization: OOPS! Freestyle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thats a sick move Jonathan. *props* On this same note, has anyone hit tapping eggbeater? I hit it my first time cleanly today. Chris Pinkus PS: I dont suppose anyone can give me $400 for the "Help Chris Pinkus get to, and room, for the Colorado Shred Symposium 3" fund? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Zaleski" Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 3:59 PM Subject: [freestyle] Anyone else hit this? > I hit my first six add about a week ago:)! But I have no idea if anyone else > has hit it before,or what its called,so if you know, tell me. Here it is: > Its kinda like a fairy super sonic(fairy double peeking osis) > > Toe>same out[dex]>backspin[bod]>backspin[bod]>backspin>[bod]>same > clip[xbd][del] From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 18 14:38:59 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA18330 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:38:59 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f280.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.155]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id HAA05417 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 07:59:59 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 07:59:55 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:59:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "SOLEAIRPRO victoria B.C." To: derrick@fogles.net, freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 07:59:55 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Feb 2002 15:59:55.0454 (UTC) FILETIME=[4EC955E0:01C1B895] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I do agree with you D.... But rules ..are also useful in a way too...well not rules..but Shop talk..so we all know what we speak of...I think that a lot of the probs with the ADD system and paradox etc is a lack of communication between all the players..and a lack of contact between players as a whole...ok ok..in a circle of bros, in a town, it is there [community], but we are all so separated into small groups....scattered around the world. I think a lot could be solved by having an event like the worlds..but not a comp..just a CONFERENCE... I have suggested this several times on the list and gave up as I got only ONE response.... I purpose A CONFERENCE here in Victoria BC CANADA...[again] I will keep this up till it happens >But now I think a little practical application of intelligence might be >a better answer. Judge what you see. If a contact was obviously made as >a flying contact, it is a flying move and should get awarded so, whether >or not the bag is carried back down to the ground. > >Being able to see and evaluate what's really happening, instead of using >rules which never really address the full spectrum of possibilities, is >a wonderful thing. I highly recommend it. > >-Derrick From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 18 14:39:57 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA18351 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:39:57 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f22.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.22]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA05696 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:09:46 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:09:45 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:09:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: kaplanb@mscd.edu, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] CSS3 New Event Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:09:45 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Feb 2002 16:09:45.0865 (UTC) FILETIME=[AEB2E790:01C1B896] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > "Most Rippin' Run" > This is a longest run event. > Must be Guiltless. > First Drop ends your run. > The same trick may not be done more than twice in a row (i.e. >Ripwalk, >Ripwalk, Ripwalk is not allowed) > Butterfly, Osis, Pdx Mirage or any 3 trick combination of the three >moves >must be broken by a fourth unique move. (i.e. osis, osis, butterfly must be >followed by something other than another B.O.P) > Every 10 unique 4 add tricks adds 5 seconds to your overall time > Every unique 5 add trick adds 2 seconds to your overall time > 6 add = 3 secs. 7 add = 4 secs etc.... > > Every Guiiltless player is encouraged to Compete. This IS a Prize >Event. > > See you all in a week, > Brad I like this Idea...but I think that to set the bar at 3 adds is well short sighted..as some moves are so hard that a player needs to come out of them into a 1 or a 2 add move...so by this you guys are saying that a one or a two is a drop..[kind of].. perhaps an addition to this Idea...if a move of 5 adds is hit, then you may link to a 2, if a move of 6..you may link to a 1 add...7 adds plus..to a kick..like a bell curve..what do ya think?..this would help to inspire more difficult moves in the run and keep it from being boring for the audience...so if you did a 4 add you must link to a 3 add or higher..You could also say, lower the time by doing this though...to stay in ballance with the method above..... you guys like this addition?.. Jubal hume From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 18 14:44:56 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA18526 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:44:56 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f67.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.67]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA07564 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:13:49 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:13:49 -0800 Received: from 161.184.26.92 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:13:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.26.92] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Stepping negates paradox in some moves? Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:13:49 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Feb 2002 17:13:49.0406 (UTC) FILETIME=[A1A0B7E0:01C1B89F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >I agree that fairy moves or atomic move have more of a >hip crank, or paradox feel, than most blurry moves, >but I think that was what x-dex was meant for. Rather >than altering the already confusing paradox add, which >has been well-defined, I think we should really start >implementing the x-dex add. This makes sense to me, but I thought (Correct me if I'm wrong) that XDEX was only for quantum and atomic moves. It doesn't affect fairy or pixie does it? Here's my reasoning: Rules for XDEX: Three plants for a double dex Leg collision if both dexes attempted at same time Those are the rules that I know about. So Fear, since it only has two plants, wouldn't get xdex. Atom smasher would tho. So would toe blur, but not smear. I agree that smear isn't an xdex move, but fear should be, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong. peace, Dylan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 18 14:47:50 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA18639 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:47:50 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA12236 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:34:43 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GRQ03D01UDLRE@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:34:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GRQ03D31UDLL7@clem.mscd.edu>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:34:33 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:16:56 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] CSS3 New Event To: "SOLEAIRPRO victoria B.C." , freestyle Message-id: <3C607179@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From "SOLEAIRPRO victoria B.C." ===== >I like this Idea...but I think that to set the bar at 3 adds is well short >sighted..as some moves are so hard that a player needs to come out of them >into a 1 or a 2 add move...so by this you guys are saying that a one or a >two is a drop..[kind of].. First. It's not short sighted at all to set it at 3 adds. Rather it's forsighted. The future of Freestyle Shred in a competitive nature is not about how hard a move you can hit to an easier one. It's all about difficulty to difficulty. We're not saying that a 1 or 2 is a drop... it's a bail, which is almost as bad. Anywhichway this is not circle kicking, this is competition. >perhaps an addition to this Idea...if a move of 5 adds is hit, then you may >link to a 2, if a move of 6..you may link to a 1 add...7 adds plus..to a >kick..like a bell curve..what do ya think? No good. If you want to hit a 5,6 or 7 that you can't hope to seal with a 3 then it should be saved for the "Sick One" contest. >this would help to inspire more >difficult moves in the run and keep it from being boring for the >audience That's why their are bonuses for hitting the harder moves >you guys like this addition?.. Honestly... No! They are fine for 2 minute routines, but in Shred I think they are crutches. Shred Competitions are about busting long, hard and strong. I'm sorry if I'm ripping this all up here, but I honestly think the difficulty level of this sport is developing at lightening fast speed. There are already 14-16 year olds busting 30 trick "genuine" strings. To back up and say that they should start hitting 1's and 2's because it's easier is, in my opinion, totally ridiculous. Freestyle (frightening as it may be to my sorry ass) is progressing. Circle kicking is great and it's fun and exciting, but if you (the collective "you") want to compete, then you need to not ask for crutches (unless you only have one leg... GO JACOB). Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 18 17:08:40 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA24665 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:08:40 -0800 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com (e1.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.101]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA22476 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:22:47 -0800 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA465748; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:19:26 -0500 Received: from mindspring.com (sig-9-15-24-108.mts.ibm.com [9.15.24.108]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g1J0MYn182076; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:22:34 -0500 Message-ID: <3C719B16.10789E80@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:23:50 -0500 From: Ernest Crvich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brad Kaplan CC: freestyle Subject: Re: [freestyle] CSS3 New Event References: <3C607179@webmail> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > First. It's not short sighted at all to set it at 3 adds. Rather it's Hence the name "Most Rippin' Run", eh? You'd have to rename it "Most Expectoratin' Run" if you wanted to permit Guilts and Tilts in for tea, and we all know nobody wants that. Unless of course everyone is equipped with Level 4 biohazard suits. -- Ernest M. Crvich Boulder, CO Have footbag, will shred From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 18 17:32:57 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA25817 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:32:57 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA25067 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:16:48 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GRR04601A8051@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:16:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GRR045C2A801J@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:16:48 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:59:10 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] CSS3 Airport Pick Up Times To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3C60BC42@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The Pick Up times at Denver International Airport for Friday the 22nd are: 11 a.m. and 4:30 p.m. These times should take care of the majority of people who gave me their flight times and any stragglers who didn't. FYI; when getting off the train coming into the main terminal you will take an escalator up to the main floor. There is a fountain right there that everyone waits at. I will be among those people holding a sign for those of you who don't know or recognize me. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 19 13:29:02 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA32258 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:29:02 -0800 Received: from rogueboner.lamenet.tmp (aoh1545ey409k.bc.hsia.telus.net [142.179.26.97]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA02112 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:00:15 -0800 Received: from sabetts by rogueboner.lamenet.tmp with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16d2RE-0005sh-00 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:03:36 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] A new move list From: Shawn Betts Date: 18 Feb 2002 21:03:36 -0800 Message-ID: <87k7taf4gn.fsf@rogueboner.lamenet.tmp> Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello shredders! You may remember Dylan Livingston sending a move list out to you a while back. I have converted it to HTML and am hosting it at: http://www.sfu.ca/~sabetts/moves.html Should you find any problems with it, please tell me! Thanks, Shawn Betts From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 19 13:30:24 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA32316 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:30:24 -0800 Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA07390 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:49:27 -0800 Received: from attbi.com ([12.239.81.29]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020219074927.YNMP2951.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@attbi.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 07:49:27 +0000 Message-ID: <3C720539.D0C1CE09@attbi.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:56:41 -0600 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dylan Livingston CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] X-Dex (was: Stepping negates paradox in some moves?) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dylan Livingston wrote: > > Rules for XDEX: > Three plants for a double dex > Leg collision if both dexes attempted at same time The only definition of xdex that I've heard is that if the leg *passes* both over and under the bag, then the dex is an xdex. The bonus xdex add is awarded on the *second* xdex. So... fairy would be awarded the xdex if you went to the other side after the set (fear, fairy far whirl, etc.). Likewise, pixie could get it if you kept it all on the same side (pixie same whirl, etc.). Do we still have some of the xdex inventors on this list? If so, please hop in and set us all straight. -Derric From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 19 13:31:35 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA32380 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:31:35 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f23.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.23]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA23606 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:54:42 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:42:47 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:42:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Sadness for Judy Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:42:47 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2002 17:42:47.0586 (UTC) FILETIME=[D813B020:01C1B96C] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Judy the wonderful girl who had the red hair at worlds 2001.. HAs sadly shattered her ankle...she fell off a roof and broke it bad... I just wanted to offer my condolences and suggest that everyone do the same... BEST WISHES and GET WELL SOON JUDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Heal FAST... Jubal Hume From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 19 13:32:23 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA32420 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:32:23 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (. [147.153.1.3] (may be forged)) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA25828 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:54:52 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GRS05R01N7DZD@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:54:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GRS05R1VN7AWQ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:54:46 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:37:08 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] CSS3 Airport Pick Up Times *UPDATE* To: freestyle Message-id: <3C612E07@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sorry to change things up a bit. Since there was only one person who was going to get picked up in the morning, Daryl will already be at the airport at 10 a.m. for other people so I won't be making the 11 a.m. trip. brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 19 13:33:30 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA32474 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:33:30 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (. [147.153.1.3] (may be forged)) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA30151 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:44:36 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GRS06401SA8CF@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:44:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GRS061FRSA8A1@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:44:32 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:26:53 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] About Freestyle Conferences To: freestyle Message-id: <3C614C2D@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From "SOLEAIRPRO victoria B.C." In the Eclipse v. Catwalk thread Jubal Wrote: >I think that a lot of the probs with the ADD >system and paradox etc is a lack of communication between all the >players.. There is plenty of communication on this list as well as information gathering tools on all the web sites that have been popping up. I think there is more of a lack of Consensus. That's why we have governing bodies like the IFC and IFPA. If anyone really wanted to change the add system or pdx or any other rule it wouldn't be THAT hard. Take the massive amount of time it takes to come up with a proposal. Propose it to a member of the IFC who will sponsor it and propose it at the next IFC meeting. >I purpose A CONFERENCE here in Victoria BC CANADA...[again] I will keep this >up till it happens It just don't work that way homie. You can't just say "hey everybody come to where I am and let's talk about stuff". For starters, very few people have the money to spend on something that, in reality, is so trivial. Not to say that we all don't feel passionately one way or the other about it, but since there is the lack of travel funds, Steve has put together this handy dandy list for us all to debate on. In addition nothing is really changed, other than popular opinion, by a conference or a list disussion without the approval of the IFC. There is, last I heard, a meeting of the IFC during Worlds. So if that is still the case you can always go through the proposal route. A while back I wanted to make changes to the add system, but I simply don't have the time to really work on it. If there are a group of people who REALLY want to change the system I sould suggest contacting eachother and finding a free chat site where you can hash a lot of stuff out and come up with a real proposal for the IFC. It comes down to the fact that it all takes a lot of time, and more actual work than just bitching and complaining, than most people want to put into it (including myself). Later, Brad (the Cornholio) From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 19 13:39:21 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA00374 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:39:21 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (. [147.153.1.3] (may be forged)) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA31856 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:20:38 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GRS06F01TYDDB@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:20:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GRS06AW9TYDVA@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:20:37 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:02:59 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] X dexes To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3C61550D@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jon Nagela's mathematical explanation of x-dex totally threw me for a loop. There was a lot of talk about the x-axis on a graph and other stuff that told about how the legs cross it to form x-dex moves. I'm not really sure if I agree with what was explained, because in the sense he described it there is always the opprtunity ("theoretically") for any dex to qualify as x-dex. Here's what I have to say about such things. Buckle in this could get bumpy... and long. There is also a response to Dylan Livingston's post in here somewhere. First let me qualify the original intent of Atomic/Tapping and Quantum/Slapping. There were several threads dealing with all of this over the last few years that I have been around to witness and despite all the "set name lists" and other such things, this is how I always understood it. Atomic = toe set> op out> op dex or bod movement Tapping = toe set> op out> same dex or bod movement Quantum = toe set> op in> op dex or bod Slapping = toe set> op in> same dex or bod Nuclear = clip set> same out> op dex or bod Clipper set Tapping = clip set> same out> same dex or bod There is also a name for clipper set quantum and slapping which would follow the same basic formula as the nuclear and clipper set tapping. With all that laid out (at least in the way I think of it) I can start with x-dex. Not all atomic/quantum/nuclear/clip quantum moves qualify the happening of x-dex. Most tapping/slapping/and clip versions don't qualify as x-dex. X-dex does not mean that there must be 3 plants either. Sorry, but I'm having a real hard time coming up with a non-visual way to explain things so I'm going to list as many moves I can think of that (as I understand it) DO qualify for x-dex. Atom Smasher Atomic Illusion Atomic Whirl Atomic Torque Atomic Blender Atomic Drifter Atomic Barrage All Quantum versions of these moves All clipper set quantum versions of these moves All Pdx(i.e. Nuclear) versions of these moves All pixie and fairie-atomic versions of these moves It has been debated as to whether or not Symposium hex's the x-dex and I personally have reasons to side both ways on that one. I guess the best way I can explain it is to say that symposium does negate x-dex when the move is done "original recipe", but x-dex is intact when the move is done "extra crispy". DISCLAIMER: My words and thoughts are not law (though they should be) and unless I make some official proposal to the IFC regarding all of this, it is up for serious debate. (and after that I guess it's up for serious debate too. Later, Brad (the Speculator) From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 19 14:04:05 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA01688 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:04:05 -0800 Received: from I (brat.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA01685 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:04:04 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3C614C2D@webmail> References: <3C614C2D@webmail> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:04:01 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] About Freestyle Conferences Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:26 PM -0700 2/19/02, Brad Kaplan wrote: > It just don't work that way homie. You can't just say "hey everybody >come to where I am and let's talk about stuff". Thanks, Brad. I mean, people can talk about stuff whenever and however they want, but the fact is that this is the whole point of us creating this new Players' Association. It should be under the auspices of said organization that changes to the formats for events in the sport are contemplated. I know every time I write into the list these days it's to say, "Join IFPA", but the fact is that there is a major shift occurring in the organization of footbag. We are committed at the leadership level of the IFPA to really embrace freestyle as the center of gravity for the sport for now. It used to be the other way around, and people are having trouble getting their heads around that shift. So, while over the last 10 years, the majority of rule changes and energy spent promoting and discussing footbag within international committees has been focussed on *net*, this has changed and will continue to change, to adjust to the simple fact that freestyle is currently the true locus of the development of the sport. (That's not to say net isn't still an awesome and vital piece of the sport, but that for an undetermined time to come, it will probably take a back seat in terms of total number of players and total level of skill among our playing population.) I personally want people (e.g., you) to stop feeling like freestyle is somehow a side-event and that the organized footbag community (e.g., folks who sit on these far-off committees that only meet once a year at Worlds) is ignoring it. I want to get all you great folks with brilliant ideas for improving freestyle competition formats, rules, and analysis, to come to the table and *participate* in the governance of the sport going forward. Join us. Work with me, and the other directors of IFPA, to engage a wider audience of players (who need to join the association if they want a voice) in dealing with these issues in a formal, organized way, that will get us to the next level. Thanks for listening. Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 19 14:51:31 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA03905 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:51:31 -0800 Received: from c007.snv.cp.net (c007-h015.c007.snv.cp.net [209.228.33.222]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id OAA02418 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:17:04 -0800 Received: (cpmta 20338 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2002 14:17:00 -0800 Received: from 64.194.176.97 (HELO ghostpirate) by smtp.directvinternet.com (209.228.33.222) with SMTP; 19 Feb 2002 14:17:00 -0800 X-Sent: 19 Feb 2002 22:17:00 GMT Message-ID: <001501c1b993$01897040$61b0c240@ghostpirate> Reply-To: "Chris Pinkus" From: "Chris Pinkus" To: Subject: [freestyle] Move Naming Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:15:56 -0800 Organization: OOPS! Freestyle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list, I don't have anything against movenaming, but some of the moves on Dylan's list are INSANE, and would have been in footbag headlines by now, yet they have names. Have people actually hit these? I feel lost in the news. Chris P From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 21 09:29:17 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA26672 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:29:17 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f215.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.215]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA19809 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:39:38 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:39:38 -0800 Received: from 128.138.154.72 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:39:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.138.154.72] From: "ethan husted" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] CSS3 hotel deals Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:39:37 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Feb 2002 20:39:38.0514 (UTC) FILETIME=[B7188F20:01C1BA4E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. I have just secured an arrangement with the Golden Buff Hotel. NOTE: I was just reviewing my posts, and there is one detail that needs to be corrected. The Golden Buff is actually on the cross streets of Canyon and 28th (the northwest side) not Arapahoe and 28th. This is a difference of one block north. It's a minor detail, but worth mentioning. Back to the Golden Buff Hotel arrangements: When you check in, say you are with the Colorado Shred Symposium. This will get you 10% off your room, and they will not charge extra persons fees either. This is good if you have or haven't made reservations. It should make things a little cheaper. Also, I have also worked out an arrangement where there will be massage theropists who will be working for no charge attending the first day of the Symposium. I highly recommend taking advantage of this absolutely free opportunity. We have a few other pleasant surprises in store as well...but I've said too much. I look forward to seeing all of you very soon. Be well, Red From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 24 08:59:18 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA24173 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:59:18 -0800 Received: from psu.edu (tnt2-164-90.cac.psu.edu [130.203.164.90]) by f04n01.cac.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA65602 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:04:36 -0500 Message-ID: <3C75C399.D976D09B@psu.edu> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:55:46 -0500 From: Kaiser Ahmad X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] PennStateTrio's O.F.F. List of Confirmed Attendees and New Important Info. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, fellow enthusiasts! As previously promised, I have compiled a rough list of the players expected to attend the P.S.T.O.F.F. 2 freestyle tournament. The purpose of this list is to inspire, to encourage, and to tempt players to come to this event when all can see the variety of freestylers and just all around great people that are confirmed to attend. However, after you have read the list of names, please do not neglect to read the new and important information below pertaining to the event. Here you go: "The Enforcer" Kenny Shults "The Executioner" Peter Irish "GF Smoothie" Greg Nelson (and a few friends) "The Outsider" Jonathan Schneider Yacine "The Fiend" Merzouk "Flash" Gordon Bevier (obviously) Vince "The Encyclopedia of Footbag Knowledge" Bradley (probably with Pete Irish) Robert Riefer Meg Riefer Ray Adams Jake Milofsky Bob Green Bill Hamilton (and a whole van load or two of kids) Peter Harris (and a few friends - our OSU rivals) Bruce Dole Dan Klokow Tim Werner Bob Glasser Brad Nelson John Mahood Noah Jay-Bonn Jason Buzby Chris Ferrigno Mike Keymont (and girlfriend) Thomas Boutorwick Sam Moore (and friends) Dan Cacciamani Kyle Ellman and Kaiser "Soze" Ahmad (me) (Many others have e-mailed me showing some interest in attending, but they have not officially confirmed their attendance with me. Therefore, their names will not make this list until they officially confirm with me. Check back to the event posting on www.footbag.org to see potential daily updates on this list of names as they are confirmed). There is your list so far. Considering all of the people confirmed that are bringing friends, this event should be hosting about 40+ players. Due to this overwhelming response, the PST did not feel that the space that we had previously reserved (a large ballroom) would be enough space for a large number of attendees such as this to shred in comfortably. After all, we must think of space in terms of expanded freestyle circles and not just a line of players. Therefore, we have made accommodations to have another ballroom added to this event. Don't worry, there won't be two separated ballrooms for the event. The two ballrooms are right next to each other, and the wall between them is removable to make one gigantic ballroom with enough space for everyone to shred in. We have reserved the ballroom for Saturday, March 2nd, and we will attempt to do so again for Sunday, March 3rd if almost every single person returns for the second day of the event. Due to the urgent need for this extra space, we have exceeded our budgets, and we must ask that everyone pays at least $3.00-$5.00 when they come to the event (most likely only $3.00, but it may be $4 or $5 depending on final costs). If we find that we will need the ballroom addition again on Sunday, then we may again ask that a fee of $3.00-$5.00 dollars (depending on number of attendees for Sunday) be paid again on the second day. This fee is most definitely not for any of our personal profit, but simply to cover the extra costs that we have incurred as a result of the overwhelming response for the P.S.T.O.F.F. 2 event. When you arrive at the event, make sure to come straight to the registration/judging table and have your registration forms and fees ready (only if you are competing), and please have your $3.00 players fee ready before you get set to play. Remember to look at the schedule again at the event posting on www.footbag.org . The event will start at 1:00pm, but competition should begin around 2:30pm. On a side note, I have received an amount of inquiries regarding whether the amateur competition will be solely for intermediates, or if we will hold a separate novice category. Many novices will be in attendance, but I am not 100% sure how many will compete. If we have four or more novices interested in having a separate novice category for competition, then we will hold a novice level of competition for prizes. Novices should expect to pay the same amateur price (or possibly lower) as the intermediates are paying. If there are any further questions or confirmed attendees (not just competitors), please do not hesitate to e-mail me at Soze@footbag.org . I am happy to see the overwhelming response that we have received for this event. Props go out to "Flash" for bearing most of the financial burdens for this event so that we can all have fun. Props to the CIC members and others coming out from west of here for making the long trip to represent. Last but definitely not least, props go out to the east coast footbag community. It seems that this year, you have really started to come out to the events (e.g. huge attendance at Chilly Philly) and shown support for your sport. Keep it up, and everybody drive here safely so we can all shred together when you get here. Come and Witness the Sickness, Soze and Flash PennStateTrio P.S. Details for the players party at Flash's house will be discussed that weekend. P.P.S. The players party will be within walking distance of the host hotel. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 06:39:52 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA17946 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:39:52 -0800 Received: from pd5mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (h24-71-223-13.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.13]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA07114 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:53:46 -0800 Received: from pd4mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr1so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.212]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GRT006GC11MLO@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:53:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml6so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml6so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.150]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GRT0095S11MUV@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:53:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from k1 (h24-70-219-33.gv.shawcable.net [24.70.219.33]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with SMTP id <0GRT00DLT10WL9@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:53:20 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:57:26 -0800 From: Allan Haggett Subject: Re: [freestyle] Sadness for Judy To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Message-id: <00fa01c1b9a1$2e9870a0$21db4618@gv.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I just wanted to offer my condolences and suggest that everyone do the > same... Judith's email address is miss.inform@funky4.com -A From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 06:40:33 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA18002 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:40:33 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (. [147.153.1.3] (may be forged)) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA10840 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:18:41 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GRT076014Z1U9@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:18:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GRT075BD4Z0VB@clem.mscd.edu>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:18:36 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:00:58 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] X-Dex (was: Stepping negates paradox in some moves?) To: Derric Scalf , freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3C618706@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From Derric Scalf ===== >Likewise, pixie could get >it if you kept it all on the same side (pixie same whirl, etc.). NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!! Derric my friend, what the hell are you doing? Don't confuse people. X-dex doesn't get awarded to pixie same whirl or pixie same anything. It would have to be pixie op something at the very least, and that's if we were to stretch the definition... which we shouldn't do at this point. You'd end up with moves like double pixie getting x-dex solely because the leg goes over and under the bag. I can't wait to get things official. God bless the IFPA. Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 06:41:31 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA18043 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:41:31 -0800 Received: from mail11.speakeasy.net (mail11.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.211]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA14101 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:36:44 -0800 Received: (qmail 25661 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2002 02:36:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dell) ([216.27.176.244]) (envelope-sender ) by mail11.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 Feb 2002 02:36:37 -0000 From: "Eric Wulff" To: Subject: [freestyle] X-Dex and X-adds Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:34:06 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3C720539.D0C1CE09@attbi.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, I noticed some talk about the X-Dex concept lately. Below I copied the content of my original proposal to update the add system. I originally proposed 4 changes, one of them being the X-Dex concept. I re-arranged the proposal so the introduction explaining the reasons for the changes is at the bottom and the meat of the ideas come first. These ideas are not entirely mine. They are shared and inspired by many in the freestyle community. Of course, I did contribute significantly to these ideas and I organized and made some sense out of it... to me anyway. :-) Some examples may seem out of date? I don't know, I haven't read it again... just copied and pasted it. The idea was that this concept could grow with the sport. Therefore, this may be a good test. There are certainly exponentially more difficult moves today than there were when I first proposed these changes about 2 years ago. Did X-Dex and others keep up with the times? You be the judge. :-) thx Eric here it is... blah blah blah... I propose 4 modifications/updates to the add system to compensate for the few weaknesses which seem to be becoming more significant as the level of play elevates and variety of style grows. As far as I can tell, not a single freestyle move loses adds based on these changes. Many moves gain adds where desperately needed. Also, some moves gain adds where not so desperately needed but I doubt anyone would consider it a crime… J. These changes better allow the add system to grow with freestyle as the wielders of blade slice ever deeper into the wounds of limit. And finally, these changes can be easily understood because the moves with new add counts resulting are almost assumed to be so already… i.e. atom smasher would be 4 instead of 3 adds. Modifications/Updates to the add system as understood presently… 1. X-Dex - Any dex which, in theory, passes both over and under the bag builds to be worth 2 adds each after the first is completed. 2. X-Spin - full spins build to be worth 2 adds each after the first is completed. 3. The “in” of an in-spin is worth 1 add. This is similar to the over dex in a “butterfly” or a “double over down” being worth 1 add. This will only effect the add counts of full spins with an “in” added to them. Why? because in-osis, osis, torque, etc. already get a body add for the “half” type spin which may be understood as “in” and similar to “over”. 4. The Paradox idea is included on the backside of spins. The side in which the paradox dex occurs is reversed from a paradox without the spin. When executing an in-spin the paradox is not reversed. X-dexes… Paradoxes are always x-dexes but x-dexes are not always paradox Whirl is an x-dex (this is the only dex I can think of which there might be confusion over) Toe set>op dex>op toe=x-dex Toe set drifter =x-dex (under-over-finish under) Fairy set Not X-Dexes… Pixie set Clip set drifter(over-finish under) Butterfly Step/blurry set How add counts are affected… Move add count break down Atom Smasher 4 not 3 1,2,1 (x-dex, x-dex, delay) Paradox Atom Smasher 5 not 4 2,2,1 (p-dex, x-dex, delay) Pixie op mirage 3 1,1,1(dex, x-dex, delay) Fairy op mirage 4 1,2,1(x-dex,x-dex,delay) Smog(pixie-op dlo) 4 1,1,1,1(dex, x-dex, dex, delay) Blur 4 1,2,1(dex, p-dex, delay) Toe blur 4 not 3 1,2,1 (x-dex, x-dex, delay) Toe blurriest 6 1,2,3 (x-dex, x-dex, butter-dex) Double ATW 3 1,1,1 (x-dex, dex, delay) Triple ATW 5 1,2,1,1 (x-dex, x-dex, dex, delay) Clip set double mirage 3 1,1,1 (dex, x-dex, delay) Toe set double mirage 4 1,2,1 ( x-dex, x-dex, delay) Flurry 4 1,1,1,1 (dex, x-dex, dex, delay) Fury 6 not 5 1,1,3,1 (x-dex, dex, p-x-dex, delay) Blurry birage 5 1,2,1,1(dex, p-dex, dex, delay) Toe set flurry 5 1,2,1,1 (x-dex, x-dex, dex, delay) Paradox Mobius 6 not 5 1,2,3 (spin, p-dex, osis) In Spinning Osis 5 not 4 1,1,3 (in, spin, osis) Double spinning osis 6 not 5 1,2,3 (x-spin, x-spin, osis) In Spinning Mobius 6 not 5.. same as mobius? 1,1,4 (in, spin, torque) Atomic Whirl 5 not 4.. now same as blurry whirl 1,2,2 (x-dex, x-dex, clip) RipWalk 4 1,3(dex, op butter) Blurriest 5 1,1,3(dex, x-dex, butter) Barfly 4 1,3(x-dex, butter) Birage 3 1,1,1(x-dex, mirage-dex, delay) Triage 5 1,2,2(x-dex, x-dex, mirage) Reasoning for the proposed changes... The adds system, by design, was created as a basis for measuring the difficulty of all footbag freestyle moves. The original system defines 5 component categories (dexterity, delay, body, x-body, unusual). The idea behind “additions” is that the difficulty of any move is dependent on the raw number of components one can execute after set and through the next contact/set of the footbag… How many “additional things” can you do and still set the bag and demonstrate control? The relative difference in difficulty between components is not considered significant and therefore each component is worth the same value or score… 1 point or “add”. However, in recent years the players have realized a level of play which suggests certain components are significantly more difficult when executed in combination due to where they are in combination. Two examples... a. Because of the rules regarding paradox, more and more moves are worth 1 more add when set from a x-body compared to their counterpart set from a toe. I.e. – blur 4(clip>op in>op in>op toe) vs. toe blur 3?(toe>op in>op in>op toe) Take almost any blurry/stepping style move containing a paradox and set it from a toe and it loses an add. Yet, a stepping/blurry style set from toe is arguably at least as hard, if not more difficult, than from a x-body. Especially when you get into moves with more than 3 components. I.e. blurriest. b. The deeper you get into a move the harder it is to “add” a component and yet the less this component effects the difficulty score. I.e. – toe delay=1 add for 1 component, atw=2 adds.. 1 more component=100% more points, datw=3 adds.. 1 more comp=50% more points than 2, tatw=4 adds??.. 1 more comp than a double but only 33% more score than a double when arguably this move is significantly more than 33% more difficult. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 06:43:57 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA18243 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:43:57 -0800 Received: from mta06.onebox.com (mta06.onebox.com [64.68.77.179]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id AAA23546 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:16:05 -0800 Received: from onebox.com ([10.1.101.6]) by mta06.onebox.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with SMTP id <20020220081556.UPTT29423.mta06.onebox.com@onebox.com> for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:15:56 -0800 Received: from [63.155.152.94] by onebox.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:15:56 -0800 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:15:56 -0800 Subject: RE: [freestyle] X-Dex (was: Stepping negates paradox in some moves?) From: "Jon Nagela" To: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20020220081556.UPTT29423.mta06.onebox.com@onebox.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, 1st apparently I was wrong about which is the x and y axis so when I said the bag goes up and down the x axis I was wrong- Eric are you sure you meant x add and not y add? I may or may not have read Eric Wolf's original explanation properly but IF I was wrong in my explanation im not im still onto a good thing. The reason that the x dex idea came about was that there were some moves that everyone knew were hard and that were getting shorted by the add system. Obviously atom smasher was harder than butterfly so there was a problem with using the add system to measure difficulty. Everyone argued paradox and such and some suggested scrapping adds all together(Steve). Then one day Eric Wolf came up with this x add concept to more accurately rate the difficulty of DEXTERITIES. So by the definition of x dex I was using I had moves like atom smasher(4 adds now), fear(4), and toe blur(4) getting x dexes and I think theres very little argument that they do get the x add and they do deserve it. I also suggested that moves like pixie eggbeater and smog could also get and x add because they crossed the x/y axis 4 times-- lets change that to your foot travelled along the x axis and crossed the y axis 4 times LOL. Now I still believe that smog(4 adds) and pixie eggbeater(4 adds) are just as underrated by the add system as atom smasher was- i hit my 1st smog over a year after my 1st pdox legbeater, p flux, p atomsmasher and smog came with much more celebration. By my definition of an x add coming from crossing the Y axis 4 times these moves also get an extra add and they are now rated properly. The only fault with giving an X/Y? add to any and every move that crosses the Y axis 4 times is that stupid OLD paradox thingy because now paradox moves like fog(5 adds) and bedwetter(5) and such would get an extra add which I think we agree they wouldnt deserve. So we could make a rule that 1 crossing of the x/y axis gets discounted in paradox moves unless the paradox occurs on the 1st dexterity of the move. SO now for my unified theory---Add system remains, Paradox stays as it is, you get an x add if you cross the Y axis 4 times with your dexterities in one move, in paradox moves x add is negated unless the 1st dex is paradox, and theres a 2 x add BONUS if you cross the x axis 6 times in any move. The practical results of above system seem to work great in my opinion and if ANYONE can find a dexterity move that gets faulted please say so. Later Jon Nagela Heres some more examples of what the new add rates would be - 4 adds- atom smasher, fear, blur, toe blur, pixie butterfly, royale, ripwalk, torque..... all seem quite close in difficulty level. 5 adds- paradox torque, paradox atom smasher, paradox legbeater, pixie eggbeater(either way), ps whirl, pixie drifter, pixie ducking butterfly, fog, fairy opp drifter, triple around the world, they all are worthy 5's no cheap pdx da da stuff here!! 6 adds- fairy torque, atomic opp symposium whirl, atomic swerve, nuclear eggbeater-worth 6 right Yax? doh my brain hurts 7 adds- quadruple around the word and damn worth it. john doh boxhater@onebox.com - email (866) 206-9072 x4727 - voicemail/fax From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 06:45:30 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA18349 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:45:30 -0800 Received: from mta05.onebox.com (mta05.onebox.com [64.68.77.148]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA25250 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:34:57 -0800 Received: from onebox.com ([10.1.111.11]) by mta05.onebox.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with SMTP id <20020220093448.RYPI27009.mta05.onebox.com@onebox.com> for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:34:48 -0800 Received: from [63.155.152.94] by onebox.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:34:48 -0800 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:34:48 -0800 Subject: [freestyle] The non dexterity dexterity From: Jon.Nagela" " To: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20020220093448.RYPI27009.mta05.onebox.com@onebox.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all ive been doing so little footbag lately and surprising myself so much by hitting new stuff every time I do play, and now my mind is running crazy with all this x dex stuff so I came upon the non- dexterity dexterity thing. In my 1st post on x dexes I laid out some examples of moves and add levels with the x dex as defined as crossing the Y axis at least 4 times. One of those moves was pixie drifter which I thought was non x dex because it crosses the y axis 3 times, me and everybody else knows that smoke is an underrated 4 so upon further examination I see that the final crossing of the y axis does occur in the hopping motion of these as yet unconsidered dexterity moves like royale. Ive felt for a long time that avoiding the dexterity in some moves makes the move as hard or harder than its more dextrous counterpart. Royale is just as phat as paradox legbeater, grifter is as hard and more unusual than legbeater, drifter is as hard as dada curve. So anyway the X/y add system takes this into account but only if you put a dexterity before the weird nondexterity dexterity move. So a move such as pixie drifter(smoke) should get 5, same as a blurry drifter (because in pdox move 1 xaxis crossing negated by the pdox dex other than 1st dex in move). xadd require crossing Y axis 4 times,name an x dex move that doesnt. Talk to you Real soon Jon Nagela From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 06:46:33 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA18384 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:46:33 -0800 Received: from web21402.mail.yahoo.com (web21402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.72]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id BAA25413 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:45:05 -0800 Message-ID: <20020220094504.26268.qmail@web21402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.97.92.75] by web21402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:45:04 PST Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:45:04 -0800 (PST) From: john kingi Subject: Re: [freestyle] Sadness for Judy To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all.. > HAs sadly shattered her ankle...she fell off a roof > and broke it bad... I to wish her a safe speedy recovery, injuries suck. hope you heal soon. Johnny From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 06:48:14 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA18461 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:48:14 -0800 Received: from mta08.onebox.com (mta08.onebox.com [64.68.76.143]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA25559 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:51:39 -0800 Received: from onebox.com ([10.1.101.8]) by mta08.onebox.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with SMTP id <20020220095134.EYGE16107.mta08.onebox.com@onebox.com> for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:51:34 -0800 Received: from [63.155.152.94] by onebox.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:51:34 -0800 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:51:34 -0800 Subject: [freestyle] X adds are really bonuses From: "Jon Nagela" To: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20020220095134.EYGE16107.mta08.onebox.com@onebox.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, Ive been thinking about this alot and I understand that it can be quite confusing trying to figure out the add levels using the system I have described. As it is the add system is very confusing but after alot of learning a few people are able to count off adds by simply watching and adding components(including paradox)- for immediate scoring at a shred contest for example. When counting the x adds its much easier mentally to figure the move at its normal add level then count the x adds as a sort of bonus by counting the # of times the dexterities cross the Y axis. If the dexterities cross the y axis at least 4 times(+ the provision negating 1 crossing of Y axis in paradox moves where paradox is not in 1st dex)you get a 1 add x dex bonus, if ( in the future of this sport) you cross the x axis 6 times an additional 2 add bonus is awarded- That makes quad atw worth 7 instead of 5( are you kidding!!!!!!!) and nemesis the 1st would be 8 add move, no wonder nobody(Sunil) hasnt been cleaned yet. Later Jon Nagela From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 06:48:49 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA18488 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:48:49 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f104.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.104]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA11663 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:16:49 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:16:49 -0800 Received: from 161.184.25.201 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:16:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.25.201] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move Naming Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:16:49 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Feb 2002 17:16:49.0450 (UTC) FILETIME=[61C4C0A0:01C1BA32] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org chris Pinkus sez: >I don't have anything against movenaming, but some of the moves on Dylan's >list are INSANE, and would have been in footbag headlines by now, yet they >have names. Have people actually hit these? I feel lost in the news. Hey all. Just thought I'd clear some of this up. I basically told shredders worldwide to send me moves they've hit or have seen hit. I left it at that, which might have been a mistake. Truthfully, I have no proof that any of these moves have been hit, and chances are that some of them were one-time events that will probably never happen again and haven't been caught on video. Most of them are named when they're hit, but it should be more public, ya know? I trust the people who sent me these moves have at least hit them semi-clean (or seen someone hit them), but there are some moves on my list that belong on Cirque de Soleil, and I really don't believe they were hit (Clean). Some of these cases were proved to me on video, which blew my mind, but there was also the case of "Surging Ducking Pdox Torque" that got me thinking about the. Anyone who sent me a move that was not clean or wasn't quite complete, please tell me so I can remove that move until it is hit. I'm not going to make fun of anyone cuz they can't hit that double inspinning symposium double atomic paradox torquescrew, believe me, but it's missing the point of the list to have totally impossible moves on it. It's all about showing all the possibilities, not all the impossibilities. On the Flipside, anyone who truly HAS hit crazy wicked sickening stuff that's on my list, please tell the list. It'd be nice if you could back it up with video evidence. I realize some people out there don't believe in the, but my list is designed for the majority of footbaggers out there, especially just starting out, and I don't want newbies thinking they're not cool unless they hit sick sevens, when pros can't even do them. That's dumb. I hope some of you people, and I'm not naming names, come out and tell me what's up. That's all I have to say. Peace. Dylan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 06:51:41 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA18667 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:51:41 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f137.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.137]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA31198 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:26:14 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:26:13 -0800 Received: from 65.27.112.254 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:26:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.27.112.254] From: "Chris Harry" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Question about Rod Laver Sizes Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:26:13 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Feb 2002 01:26:13.0907 (UTC) FILETIME=[C0594E30:01C1BA76] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, i'm about to order some Rod Lavers, but i want to make sure I get the right size, right now im using size 11 1/2 but those are ES Koston skateboard shoes (which i found work pretty well for freestyle footbag, pretty nice surfaces) Now those fit pretty well, but i know sizes do vary from company to company, anyone with past experience on how the Lavers vary? From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 06:54:14 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA18820 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:54:14 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f9.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.9]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA12632 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:08:49 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:08:43 -0800 Received: from 161.184.29.52 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:08:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.29.52] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Move Name changes Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:08:43 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Feb 2002 20:08:43.0972 (UTC) FILETIME=[39C4A840:01C1BE38] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all! So in case some people forgot, there was that thing about Catwalk and Eclipse a while back, and I posted a bunch of names that you guys were supposed to pick through and find the best ones. Well, I found out that certain names will always stay, no matter how many other names are tacked on. Here's the results: Squeeze/Pincher for back of knee stall. Both names had equal votes, I think both names should stay, cuz they both fit. HOWEVER:I think there should be a name for catching the bag in between both your feet. I used to call this a pincher until I found out what it actually was. Eclipse/Catwalk for floating butterfly. Again, there was overwhelming voting on both names. There's also reason to believe that Catwalk is "slightly" different. Paste/Eggmixer for Pixie pickup There was overwhelming response for Paste to stay, so I threw out Eggmixer. Skull Smasher/Rasmus for Atom ducking mirage. Rasmus seems to be the overall favorite, so Skull Smasher has been thrown out. Wet Dream/Flaming Tard for stepping eggbeater. Both names got equal response, and both names are actually politically incorrect, so I'm keeping both. Neutron Smasher/Johnny Quest for Spin Pdox Atom Smasher. Both names kick ass, so got equal votes. I think if one is thrown out eventually, it should be used for a different move. For now both names stay. Forque/Fearosis for Fairy Torque. Fearosis was ahead by miles in this one. Forque will be thrown out. For now, fairy ducking torque will remain Forquelift. Pixie Warrior/Phoenix for Pixie Ducking Butterfly. Phoenix got several responses with this move. I threw out Pixie warrior, but the move is a "Warrior" move, so that might be changed. S.P.A.S./Terrasmasher for Symp. Pdox. Atom Smasher. SPAS won out with this one. I've thrown out Terrasmasher so I can use it when I finally hit Scattered Whirl. Lotus/Void for Spinning Paradox Drifter. Although Lotus has been around for a long time, Void is definitely the favorite here, so I've thrown out Lotus. Id/Your Mom for Alpine Fusion. For those who don't know, Id is actually the only name for alpine Fusion. Your mom is the name for Atomic Blacula or Symposium Fusion. Nucleosis/Aeon Flux for Pdox Flux. I missed a lot of cool moves on flipsider.com, and I know that's my fault, but I wish someone would have told me. Aeon Flux is no longer being used for pdox flux, it's now Gyro Flux, so Nucleosis keeps it's job. That's all of the changes I've made to my list. Remember, it's only a move-list, so nothing's totally concrete. If anyone has a good reason why I should change something I've done, tell me and I won't think twice. I haven't changed any real rules or anything at all. Let me know what you think about the changes I made. Later everybody! Dylan Livingston. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 06:54:58 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA18839 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:54:58 -0800 Received: from smtp-send.myrealbox.com (smtp-send.myrealbox.com [192.108.102.143]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA15856 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:20:49 -0800 Received: from drcolossus [204.98.27.58] by myrealbox.com with NIMS ModWeb Module; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:20:32 +0000 Subject: [freestyle] CSS3 Reflections From: Casey Jones To: freestyle@footbag.org, forum@denverfootbag.com Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:20:32 +0000 X-Mailer: NIMS ModWeb Module X-Sender: drcolossus MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1014672032.5d7d3ff5drcolossus@myrealbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by llic.net id NAA15856 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Greetings to everyone. Just woke up after two days of mind-warping freestyle at the third-annual Colorado Shred Symposium. Needless to say, i'm very sore. But i had a blast and learned a great deal (blur, toe blur, ripwalk, flipside clipper- and stepping-set, etc.). i was so fascinated with trying new things on my own that i didn't do as much circle kicking as i'd wanted to. i also had to get home pretty early on both days but for the time i did get to hang out with all of you, i had an excellent time. Most everyone was loaded with energy and shredding extremely well. i took some friends along and i think they all had a great time hanging out and watching. Big, BIG thanks to Red and Brad for putting all of this together! Very well-run tournament, right in my back-yard. Just what i needed... Big thanks also to everyone who showed up and made it an event. Hope to see you all at Westerns or Worlds. Peace, - casey PS: i picked up three videos: "The Lion's Den", "CIC Shred", and "Overground". All very entertaining. i was a little befloppled and delirious from sleep-deprivation while watching them though, so i can't remember much aside from the fight scene in "The Lion's Den" (awesome!), some hippie ladies singing a song at some cannabis-convention in "CIC Shred", and that awesome double-viewpoint run of Ken's in "Overground". Anyway, i'm sure i'll watch them all at least four or five more times in the near future. Thanks much to Chad, Sam, and Yacine for these. Excellent work. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 06:55:53 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA18896 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:55:53 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f272.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.236.150]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA15983 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:23:17 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:23:17 -0800 Received: from 161.184.25.242 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:23:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.25.242] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] X-Dex Help Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:23:17 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Feb 2002 21:23:17.0698 (UTC) FILETIME=[A4511220:01C1BE42] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. I've got the whole xdex thing for the most part, and I've changed my move-list accordingly. Now I need a little help. I'm not completely sure of some things and how they pertain to xdex, so if anyone notices a move in the following list that is NOT xdex, or has a move I should add to the list of xdex moves, please let me know. Here's a list of all the moves on my list that I've given xdex. Atom Smasher Toe-Set Barrage Double Fairy Double Illusion Fairy Dragonfly Fairy Pickup Fear Fudge Omelette Quantum Pickup Scrambled Eggbeater Tapping Illusion Toe Blizzard Toe Blur Atomic Drifter Down Double Down Fairy Barrage Fairy Eggbeater Fairy Same Eggbeater Feral(Fairy Whirl) Flog Fume(Fairy Drifter) Guillotine(Fairy Ducking Mirage) HP Drifter Pixie Barrage Pixie Same Barrage Pixie Same Drifter Pixie Same Toe Blizzard Pixie Same Whirl Pixie Toe Blizzard Pixie Whirl Predator(Atomic DLO) Quantum Drifter Quantum Eggbeater Quantum Whirl Rasmus(Atomic Ducking Mirage) S&M Smasher Sabotage(Toe-Flurry) Smoke(Pixie Drifter) Tapping Eggbeater Terawhirl(Terraging Clipper) Terraging Illusion Terraging Same Clipper Terraging Same Illusion Terraging Same Mirage Tombstone(Stepping Drifter) Triage Triple ATW Trixie Whirr Blistering Whirl Double Blender Fairy Blender Fairy Double Over Down Fairy Ducking Whirl Fairy Flux Fairy Legbeater Fairy Paradon Fearosis(Fairy Torque) Fusion Kiwi(Tapping Paradon) Pixie Blender Pixie Ducking Whirl Pixie Same Blender Plasma(Quantum DOD) Quake(Atomic Backside Symp. Toe Blur) Sailing Eclipse Atomic Torque Terraging Same Osis Forque Lift(Fairy Ducking Torque) Id(Alpine Fusion) Tapping Toe-Motion I didn't give XDEX to any moves that already have a paradox add, like Pdox Blur, cuz I think that defeats the purpose, and I also left out symposium moves, cuz you can cheat the XDEX with those. So am I basically right? Or did I miss some stuff or add too much? DDD sounds wierd to me, and fairy pickup, but I think they're mostly right. Let me know list! Thanks for your help. Later, Dylan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 06:57:34 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA19045 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:57:34 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f112.law6.hotmail.com [216.32.241.112]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA06390; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:47:47 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:35:51 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw6fd.law6.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 04:35:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jeremy Kumbruch" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] What is the osis dragon being called? Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 04:35:50 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Feb 2002 04:35:51.0248 (UTC) FILETIME=[11D68500:01C1BE7F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Just wondering what the osis style dragon is being called? If nothing, then I propose dynamic dragon opposed to a static dragon (the frozen kind)! There are all kinds of cool moves with this as an ending...have fun with this one... hope the CSS2 was dope, sorry i couldn't make it! From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 18:41:10 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA17347 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:41:10 -0800 Received: from alpha.math.uga.edu (alpha.math.uga.edu [128.192.3.9]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id HAA19598 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 07:07:39 -0800 Received: from localhost (faber@localhost) by alpha.math.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA16659 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:07:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:07:37 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Faber To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move Name changes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dylan Livingston said: > Nucleosis/Aeon Flux for Pdox Flux. > I missed a lot of cool moves on flipsider.com, and I know that's my fault, > but I wish someone would have told me. Aeon Flux is no longer being used > for pdox flux, it's now Gyro Flux, so Nucleosis keeps it's job. Wait a sec ... Ryan named Gyro Flux at worlds this past year ... it's called Reversius. How did flipsider get claim to name it? Alex Faber From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 18:42:05 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA17386 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:42:05 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f253.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.236.131]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA23428 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:33:45 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:33:45 -0800 Received: from 161.184.26.233 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:33:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.26.233] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] X adds are really bonuses Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:33:44 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Feb 2002 16:33:45.0385 (UTC) FILETIME=[5C063990:01C1BEE3] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>If the dexterities cross the y axis at least 4 times -John Nagela Hey. This makes sense to me in several ways, but John mentioned Smog getting XDEX. But if you dissect Smog it's just a Smear combined with a DLO, both moves that don't get XDEX. Smog is a TRIPLE dexterity move, where you cross the Y 4 times. There is one X-dex in the move (The second dexterity), so it really shouldn't get XDEX. This is how you should decide which triples get X. Dissect the move. For instance, Pixie Barrage is Smear+Toe barrage. Toe barrage gets the X, so Pixie Barrage gets it too. After looking more closely at Smoke tho, (And reading Wulffman's post, thanks man), I've noticed there is only one X-dex in it(The pixie crosses once, and the drifter crosses twice, or thrice depending on how you do it). Same with stuff like Pixie same whirl. The first dex crosses once, so it's not an XDEX. Even though the whirl is, to get an extra add both dexes need to be xdexes. We'll all agree that the move crosses the y 4 times, but like Eric says, that's not all that shows difficulty. I do like the idea of not awarding extra adds to paradox moves tho. I look at it this way. With Sumo, there's 3 crosses for the nuclear set, and a further two for the mirage. It's non-paradox version, atom smasher, has a total of four crosses. So five to four, Sumo's a harder move, and it deserves an extra add. You'll notice that with all Quasi and Nuclear moves the first dex crosses the y three times. This is the same with whirl endings. Nuclear whirl crosses six times total. It's not my call, but that move should be worth seven adds. Likewise Nuclear Torque would be worth seven as well, because it crosses five times. A paradox blurry whirl would also be worth seven (But paratoxic's worth 6???). Maybe a Quasi/nuclear set should be worth an extra add if it's followed by a dex, no matter what. Anyway, that's my take on it! Later, Dylan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 18:45:06 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA17502 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:45:06 -0800 Received: from mta09.onebox.com (mta09.onebox.com [64.68.76.81]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA02180 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:11:26 -0800 Received: from onebox.com ([10.1.111.6]) by mta09.onebox.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with SMTP id <20020226211111.FEIB13130.mta09.onebox.com@onebox.com> for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:11:11 -0800 Received: from [63.155.156.64] by onebox.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:11:11 -0800 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:11:11 -0800 Subject: [freestyle] Clarification on bonus system From: "Jon Nagela" To: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20020226211111.FEIB13130.mta09.onebox.com@onebox.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org So I downloaded the new 4 add move list just posted the other day (all 31 pages of it!!) and figured out the changes to the point(no longer adds,I dont know how many times ive had to explain the term add and how it adds each component etc... To me POINTS makes more sense as a term to describe difficulty and if you look closely this system is closing in on gravity forcing moves to naturally max out at 10 points. So the point level is adds + bonuses, to count adds you count components and ADD them. To count POINTS you count adds and then the Y bonuses for the total point level. I know some or many of you are having a hard time understanding me right now when im try to explain this crossing the axis crap but here are the changes to the 4 add move list from beginning to end. 4 add moves that add to 5 points using the criteria mentioned in previous e mail-and the # of Y axis crossings denoted afterward. All of these moves get 4 adds and 5 proposed POINTS--- Atomic drifter-crosses y axis 5 times. Backside symp. toe blizzard-5 times backside symp. toe blur-5 Entarrage-4 Fairy/atomic/quantum eggbeater same and opp -5 Fairy/atomic/quantum opp whirl-4 Quantum same whirl-4 Fairy/atomic/quantum opp DLO-5 Quantum same DLO-5 Flurry-4 Frontsymp. Toe blur-4 Fairy/atomic/quantum opp drifter-5? does the planted foot cross the y axis in the non-dex dexterity moves?? Quantum same drifter-5? Fairy ducking mirage-4 High plains drifter-4? Paradox barrage-4 Paradox blizzard-4 Paradox blur-4 Pixie eggbeater-4 Pixie barrage-4 Pixie double switchover-4 Pixie same barrage-5 Pixie same double switchover-4times Pixie same drifter-4 Pixie same eggbeater-4 Pixie same toe blizzard-5 Pixie toe blizzard-5 Atomic DLO-5 Quantum drifter-5? Quantum eggbeater-5 Quantum whirl-4 Atomic ducking mirage-4 Toe flurry-5 Smog-4 Smoke-4 Stepping opp reaper-4 ok ok not all the way to the end this is too much work!! All of these moves would add to 5 points just like paradox torque. Please notice in these dexterity moves the close correlation between the #of times the y axis is crossed and the actual difficulty- could lead to a good 1/2 point system. Keeping in mind that many moves would now have higher point levels do these all seem worth 5? One possible oddity is that Fairy/atomic/quantum opp. barrage would cross the y axis 6 times and therefore go from 4 adds(ridiculous)to 7 points. I know toe barrage is hard as I cant do it and 80%that ive ever seen were the'd but does the dex in front of it make it that much harder? Blurrage is more complimentary than these and blurrage would get a bonus point for a total of 6. I now see that Dylan already updated a list based on the system I described. I think this system isnt accepted yet but people should really pay attention to the results that come from using it even if they are against change. Dylan noticed that down double down would get the bonus point and I dont agree that it deserves it in terms of difficulty so I have a slight revision to the decription of my sytem. Also dylan is counting the final meeting of the foot and bag on moves ending in legover and pickup when this is just your foot and bag MEETING at the xy axis it doesnt cross the axis- legover crosses the y axis once, mirage twice, and bubba 3 times. MY PROPOSED INDIVIDUAL MOVE SCORING SYTEM Adds stay as they are, adds plus bonus points add up to the total difficulty points for each move. You recieve a bonus point by crossing the y axis as envisioned on a graph with dexterities, or the necessary hopping motion from non dexterity dexterities(drifter, royale) at least 4 times. In moves where all dexterities and therefore y axis crossings are complimentary I.E blurriest, haze, nemesis, pixie same DLO, or done with 1 leg I.E. double over down, triple atw, you must cross the y axis at least 5 times to recieve the 1 point bonus. This means blurriest and haze dont get the bonus, nor does double over down, but triple atw and nemesis do. Paradox add's stay but 1 y axis crossing is deducted from the calculation in moves which have been awarded a paradox add in other than 1st dex. I.E Fog stays at 5 adds and 5 points but paradox blur and blizzard, and blurry blur and blurry blizzard all get a paradox add and a bonus point. In all moves that cross the y axis at least 6 times there will be an additional 2point bonus- So that 4 dex Nemesis that Sunil hits cleanly both sides now is worth 6 adds and 9 points. Spin before it and well have the system maxxed!!! LOL I think ill think up some sample runs for a shred contest and figure out the adds vs point totals later tonight. Later Jon Nagela From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 18:46:29 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA17566 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:46:29 -0800 Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA02498 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:17:49 -0800 Received: from 24-205-40-112.glen-dyn.charterpipeline.com ([24.205.40.112] helo=sam) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16foyq-0003OT-00; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:17:48 -0800 Message-ID: <004101c1bf0b$0766af00$7028cd18@charterpipeline.com> From: "Sam Colclough" To: "Casey Jones" , References: <1014672032.5d7d3ff5drcolossus@myrealbox.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] CSS3 Reflections Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:17:42 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ooF! From: "Casey Jones" > PS: i picked up three videos: "The Lion's Den", "CIC Shred", and >"Overground". All very entertaining. i was a little befloppled and >delirious from sleep-deprivation while watching them though, so i can't >remember much aside from the fight scene in "The Lion's Den" (awesome!), >some hippie ladies singing a song at some cannabis-convention in "CIC >Shred", and that awesome double-viewpoint run of Ken's in "Overground". >Anyway, i'm sure i'll watch them all at least four or five more times in the >near future. Thanks much to Chad, Sam, and Yacine for these. Excellent >work. Casey, your reflections are right on. CSS3 was killer fantastic. I just wanted to point out that Dan Klokow made CIC Shred and I bet another video is surely in the works. If you want to get CIC Shred you can lookup his info on footbag.org. I recommend doing so cause those Chicago Inner Circle boys shred ballz. I recently composed a poem: Sam C to the O bling L Cic-shred L On U G Hee hee (co-clo) From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 18:50:21 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA17751 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:50:21 -0800 Received: from mta05.onebox.com (mta05.onebox.com [64.68.77.148]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA03224 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:34:44 -0800 Received: from onebox.com ([10.1.101.9]) by mta05.onebox.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with SMTP id <20020226213440.SNSO27009.mta05.onebox.com@onebox.com> for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:34:40 -0800 Received: from [63.155.156.64] by onebox.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:34:40 -0800 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:34:40 -0800 Subject: [freestyle] X dexes and bonus systems From: "Jon Nagela" To: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20020226213440.SNSO27009.mta05.onebox.com@onebox.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This stuff I'm posting has changed from an attempted description of Eric Wulff's idea into a proposal of my addition to his idea. So dont complain that its wrong because x dex only counts for this or that, think of it as the points system and look close to see how it affects things. 1 great possible affect is it will widen the margin in scoring, take it on its own merit. Jon Nagela From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 18:51:14 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA17795 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:51:14 -0800 Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA13332 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:15:28 -0800 Received: from attbi.com ([12.239.81.29]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020227011527.YKTK1147.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 01:15:27 +0000 Message-ID: <3C7C3583.A2F24A84@attbi.com> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 19:25:23 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derrics1@attbi.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move Naming References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dylan Livingston wrote: > > I don't want newbies thinking they're not cool unless they hit > sick sevens, when pros can't even do them. That's dumb. Hehe... the funny thing is that it's the newbies that are hitting all of these sick sevens. The only limit of move possibilities come from yourself. I'm going to stop saying what is impossible after seeing all of the sick, twisted stuff that was hit over the weekend (thanks Sunil). Anyway, I know what you are saying about the. Video verification is a good thing. -Derric From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 26 18:55:06 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA17913 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:55:06 -0800 Received: from mail.bucknell.edu (marge.bucknell.edu [134.82.9.1]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA08166 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:24:34 -0800 Received: from [134.82.88.22] (jmilfsky.resnet.bucknell.edu [134.82.88.22]) by mail.bucknell.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1QNOV211465 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:24:31 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: jmilfsky@mail.bucknell.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:26:18 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Jacob Milofsky Subject: [freestyle] PSTOFF hotelmate? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What's up everyone? I've recently discovered that I'm going to be able to stay in State College on Saturday night, and so i'm hoping to find someone who is looking for an extra hotel roommate. I don't take up very much space, my feet don't smell bad, and I'd be happy to pay my fraction of the room cost. So if you can help me out, please contact me privately. Hope everyone's sharpening their blades 'cause if this is anything like last year's PSTOFF, it'll be a weekend to remember. No doubt. Allright Peace, Jake Milofsky Lewisburg, Pa From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Feb 27 18:08:28 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA06184 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:08:28 -0800 Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA25677; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 22:25:35 -0800 Received: from c4720a ([12.252.37.32]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020227062531.HRMQ1214.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@c4720a>; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 06:25:31 +0000 Message-ID: <004901c1bf60$28ebeb40$2025fc0c@attbi.com> From: "Richard Reese" To: "Sam Colclough" , "Casey Jones" , References: <1014672032.5d7d3ff5drcolossus@myrealbox.com> <004101c1bf0b$0766af00$7028cd18@charterpipeline.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] CSS3 Reflections Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 23:27:06 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello World, Rick Reese here,A.k.A Rippin'. Casey and Sam said mouthfuls, The CSS3 was awesome! Let me start by saying thank you to all who traveled far to get to Boulder this past weekend, I know what a pain travel can be. I want to brag about the insane amount of prizes (especially $) that were available at this tournament.Ahren, I think you could have paid for your trip double, if , you would have shown up. Missed Ya, Bro. Lon Smith and Sunil Jani definitely stole the show last weekend. It's truly unbelievable what these two guys can hit. I saw close foot witness to Lon hitting PS Whirl Mobius, PS Whirl,Mobius, PS Whirl, Mobius, PS Whirl.... And in the middle of a Huge 20 + combo he hit Vortex to Spinning Drifter like it was nothing. Sunil, Well all I can say is I had to pick my peverbial jaw off the floor multiple times because he is truly Sick. This is not a misprint.... I saw Nemesis on both sides, clean as day.....YOU can't keep it a secret anymore.....the people must know! He also Hit 'Clown-Face' ....A Barraging Paradox Egg-beater many times over. And he sank the field with an awesome Big-3 Blurriest, Flurry, Pixie-paradon. News Flash, Sunil is the King of Dexterity. So many people were shredding so good. The Posse showed up in strong fashion, but there were many other notables......Spencer and his Fairy Ducking DLO, Risden and his sick smoothness and flow, Adam Keith hit a Double Atomic Butterfly......he's fast. Matthew Cain owns Fairy set, Cameron and his Grabbing Paradox Whirl...cool concept! The ladies were in full force as well, I saw an all woman circle with 3's and 4's being hit everywhere, Ripwalks, Paradons, it was the bomb. Peter hit a nasty new move, Atomic spinning torque.....I'll let him tell you the name of that one. Yacine hit Paradox Atom Smasher to Fusion. The list goes on and on........ Bottom line is, This is your one year warning for next years CSS4, Don't you dare miss it. My hat goes off to Lon Smith, who took home the biggest payday in freestyle history, over $1000.00. Take Care everybody, Shred-on. Rippin'. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Feb 27 18:09:47 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA06205 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:09:47 -0800 Received: from mta04.onebox.com (mta04.onebox.com [64.68.77.147]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA25979 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 22:48:41 -0800 Received: from onebox.com ([10.1.101.10]) by mta04.onebox.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with SMTP id <20020227064837.FWN12575.mta04.onebox.com@onebox.com> for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 22:48:37 -0800 Received: from [63.155.156.128] by onebox.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 22:48:37 -0800 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 22:48:37 -0800 Subject: [freestyle] More on bonuses From: "Jon Nagela" To: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20020227064837.FWN12575.mta04.onebox.com@onebox.com> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, if youve been reading my previous posts you see that ive started on the the idea of bonus points to be added to the add total for a point score of difficulty for each move. So far I was working purely with dexterity bonus on the theory that crossing the y axis 4 times=1 bonus. There are just a couple of moves that dont deserve the bonus point for difficulty even tho they cross y axis 4 times- im trying to figure out how to perfectly word exclusions for them (blurriest, pixie paradon, and double over down), yet keep deserving moves like whirr and flurry getting the bonus point. On a separate thread there is no reason we cannot adopt a bonus system for not only dexterities but for spins and ducks/dives as well. Off the top of my head lets say 4 bonuses= 1 full bonus point, so lets say a duck after a dex gets 1 bonus -ripped warrior stays same(5 adds, 3 bonuses, no bonus point= 5 points) but now ducking blur would get 4 bonuses(3 from dex's 1 from the duck after a dex) for an xtra point (5 adds, 6 points), atomic ducking butterfly will get 4 bonuses for a extra point too(5 adds, 6 points), and Dave holtons blurry ducking paradox torque- the 1st ever 7 adder will get 7 adds, 4 bonuses, 1 full bonus point for 8 difficulty points. Now for bonuses from spins- lets say that for each half spin you complete before a dexterity you get 2 bonus pieces? 4 bonus peices=1 extra point to be added to add count. Now with that criteria vortex gets a bonus point(2 bonus for the 1/2 spin in a gyro move+ 1 bonus from that mirage,+ the non dexterity dexterity bonus. 4 adds 5 points.) Gyro Dlo would go from 4 adds to 5 difficulty points- that wouldnt be right cus gyro DLO is weak--- NOT!! In spinning paradox mirage- 4 bonus for the full spin, 2 bonus for the mirage for a total of 6 bonus peices. In previous email I stated that 6 y crossing or what im now referring to as bonus peices here would get 1 full bonus point after the 4th crossing and 2 additional full bonus points upon the 6th crossing. Let me ammend that to full bonus point for 4 bonus pieces plus 1(not 2) additional bonus point upon earning the 6th bonus piece. So now Chad Devlahovich's gyro flurry will be worth 5 adds 6 difficulty pieces and therefore 7 difficulty points. Inspinning paradox mirage gets 4 adds if spinning paradox counts + 6 bonus pieces for a point total of 6. Just some food for thought for those that dont want to get cheated from a system that will better award dex's. I ecourage all of you to think what kind of bonuses should be awarded in other add categories and specifically why.-Unusuals could be worth a bonus or 2 also. Later, Jon Nagela From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Feb 27 18:10:28 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA06272 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:10:28 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f169.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.169]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA11775 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:00:44 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:00:44 -0800 Received: from 161.184.29.149 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:00:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.29.149] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Clarification on bonus system Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:00:44 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2002 16:00:44.0576 (UTC) FILETIME=[E9C88200:01C1BFA7] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I now see that Dylan already updated a list based on the system >I described. I think this system isnt accepted yet but people should >really pay attention to the results that come from using it even if they >are against change. Dylan noticed that down double down would get the >bonus point and I dont agree that it deserves it in terms of difficulty >so I have a slight revision to the decription of my sytem. Also dylan >is counting the final meeting of the foot and bag on moves ending in >legover and pickup when this is just your foot and bag MEETING at the >xy axis it doesnt cross the axis- legover crosses the y axis once, mirage >twice, and bubba 3 times. Hmm. I don't think I did count the meeting of the bag as a crossing of the axis. I know Legover crosses only once, but toe-set pickup and Far Pickup (At least for me) crosses twice, under then over, just like mirage, but then it picks the bag up. I might be doing the move wrong, but I'd argue that pickup moves can cross the y axis twice if done a certain way, so they can be xdex moves, just like mirage moves. When I do a scrambled egg, it's an xdex scrambled egg. However, Eggbeater can't be done this way. Also, I personally find DDD to be slightly tougher than paradon, barfly, or DOD, but it's true that it's still a four-addish move. Double illusion is a better example of a move that would get the extra point. Anyway, I think this idea is one worth taking a look at. I don't think Nemesis should be worth nine "adds", but this point system seems interesting to me. Right then.. Peace! Dylan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Feb 27 18:11:23 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA06340 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:11:23 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f286.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.161]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA19292 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:26:51 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:15:47 -0800 Received: from 205.236.95.5 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:15:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [205.236.95.5] From: "James McCullough" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Symp pixie set Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:15:47 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2002 19:15:47.0661 (UTC) FILETIME=[295D8FD0:01C1BFC3] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, Just recently I started hitting symposium pixie sets...I want to know if i'm the first one, or if anyone else has hit this before. It's not on the set list so I'm guessing i'm the first. I've hit symp pixie b-fly and symp pixie legover, and more are coming (I have witnesses to the symp pix b-fly). I'm pretty sure Symp fairy sets are possible too but they are still up for grabs. Another thing I'm curious about is the furious set. A barraging pdx mirage as a set? seems a little far fetched to me. If anyone has hit a move out of this I'll shut up but it seems only superman himself can hit a furious anything. One more thing; There's another cool set that isn't on the list; fairy swirling Shred hard james From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Feb 27 18:12:16 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA06414 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:12:16 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f272.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.16.147]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA32402 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 15:53:25 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 15:53:24 -0800 Received: from 68.80.0.8 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 23:53:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.80.0.8] From: "David Tomlinson" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Intermediate? Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:53:24 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2002 23:53:24.0648 (UTC) FILETIME=[F1B41280:01C1BFE9] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hello all, I'm hopeing to be able to make it to the P.S.T.O.F.F. 2 this weekend and i was wondering what sort of tricks would be considered Intermediate??? I can mirage, butterfly, whirl, blender, pixie osis, dragon butterfly, flapper, legover, barrage, and moves around that level. I hit a diving blender once... good times... David Tomlinson From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 28 12:22:27 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA10695 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:22:27 -0800 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com (e1.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.101]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA17983 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:59:38 -0800 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.us.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA470618 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 01:56:18 -0500 Received: from mindspring.com (sig-9-15-11-91.mts.ibm.com [9.15.11.91]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g1S6xSK166896 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 01:59:32 -0500 Message-ID: <3C7DD5B3.78B7894D@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 02:01:07 -0500 From: Ernest Crvich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] CSS3 Reflections References: <1014672032.5d7d3ff5drcolossus@myrealbox.com> <004101c1bf0b$0766af00$7028cd18@charterpipeline.com> <004901c1bf60$28ebeb40$2025fc0c@attbi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Whirl...cool concept! The ladies were in full force as well, I saw an all woman > circle with 3's and 4's being hit everywhere, Ripwalks, Paradons, it was the bomb. And those amazing women were: Laura, Sunny, Amy, Caroline, Lonn, Martha, and Tunda (pardon any spelling mistakes in this list, as well as any omissions). In fact, Laura finished in 2nd place in the Intermediate Big Three competition (had there been an award for 2nd place, that is), and regularly hits stuff like Smear, Ripwalk, Pixie Butterfly, Paradox Mirage, Whirl, Magellan, and Drifter. And of course local gals Sunny and Amy have stuff like Paradon, Blender, Smear, and Pixie Butterfly all dialed up. Caroline was ducking and spinning so much I could hardly keep the videocam focused on her. And yes Pete, Lonn *did* hit Ripwalk and Drifter (both for the first time) on Sunday! You go girls! -- Ernest M. Crvich Boulder, CO Have footbag, will shred From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 28 12:27:02 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA10976 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:27:02 -0800 Received: from rogueboner.lamenet.tmp ([142.179.16.240]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id DAA24333 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 03:27:10 -0800 Received: from sabetts by rogueboner.lamenet.tmp with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16gOmi-0002sW-00 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 03:31:40 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Move List Update References: From: Shawn Betts Date: 28 Feb 2002 03:31:40 -0800 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <87sn7lonab.fsf@rogueboner.lamenet.tmp> Lines: 24 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "Dylan Livingston" writes: > Hey All! > I'm glad to announce version 3.0 of the move-list. I've completed > move descriptions, made move-names bold, fixed a few bugs, and soon > I'll get rid of multiple names for moves, once I get a real consensus > as to which names are best. I'll also be adding xdex, since I'm > really starting to understand it now. 109 pages and almost 300 kb of > Freestyley goodness, with chocolate icing and a creamy filling. mmmmm. > Once again, if anyone notices a bug in the list, no matter how small, > please let me know so I can fix things up. My next task is to find > out which of those insane 8-adds have really been hit, so I need > people to help me with that too. (there's a few sevens I don't quite > trust either). Enjoy all! It's really coming along now. > Dylan Livingston Thanks! I've updated my mirror with the changes: http://www.sfu.ca/~sabetts/moves.html If you see any mistakes, don't hesitate to tell me! -- Shawn Betts From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 28 12:29:16 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA11063 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:29:16 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f188.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.188]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA32179 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:20:27 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:20:22 -0800 Received: from 206.15.253.3 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:20:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [206.15.253.3] From: "Randy Magliocca" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] CSS3 Reflections Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:20:22 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2002 16:20:22.0905 (UTC) FILETIME=[D288FE90:01C1C073] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey does any one have a video of CSS3 that I could perhaps borrow or if I have to buy. I just got that email about sunil and the both sides nemisis. Well please email me if you have a video, PLEASE. Later. Randy"The Magician"Magliocca From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 28 14:39:03 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA07964 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:39:03 -0800 Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA05768 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:01:34 -0800 Received: from 24-205-40-112.glen-dyn.charterpipeline.com ([24.205.40.112] helo=sam) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16gYcH-0004SZ-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:01:33 -0800 Message-ID: <00b801c1c0a3$7934f300$7028cd18@charterpipeline.com> From: "Sam Colclough" To: Subject: [freestyle] Lost 8mm tape at CSS3 :( Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:01:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, I lost one of my 8mm tapes at CSS3. I am pretty sure I left it at Sven's dance studio on Saturday night. If anyone found it could they please e-mail me with a ransom demand? Thanks, Sam