From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 13:55:39 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA13304 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 13:55:39 -0800 Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA06760 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:47:33 -0800 Received: from c1277828a ([12.231.62.9]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020131064733.QHUY3578.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@c1277828a>; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 06:47:33 +0000 Message-ID: <002201c1aa23$9e9dbf00$96c8000a@sttln1.wa.home.com> From: "Alex Zerbe" To: "Ken Somolinos" , References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:50:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Footbag Community, I just wanted to put in my two cents. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Somolinos" > What I'm driving at is a circle of shirtless sweaty guys playing a difficult > sport is very intimidating to new players, especially women, I personally believe that shirtless guys aren't what is scaring potential or current players off. The bigger issue is the competitive energy and elitist attitude that I see in footbag (Mostly at Worlds where people have something to prove) Derrick is right. The emphasis needs to be on fun. Let's leave the competition in the contest. If you want to wear a shirt, wear it, if you don't, don't. Alex P.S. Deodorant is a good thing. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 13:56:27 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA13347 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 13:56:27 -0800 Received: from femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.106]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id FAA14831 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 05:51:52 -0800 Received: from matt ([24.182.66.10]) by femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20020131135150.XESS12035.femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com@matt> for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 05:51:50 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01c1aa5f$65a65860$9fe9b00a@muellerdmn1> From: "Matt" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 07:58:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Footbag will never be 'big' and >'successful' until ... Personally, I would rather not have it to be a big sport- we don't want it to turn out like football or other sports of today. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 13:56:59 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA13389 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 13:56:59 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f40.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.40]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id HAA18754 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 07:45:28 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 07:45:28 -0800 Received: from 64.109.202.176 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:45:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.109.202.176] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:45:28 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2002 15:45:28.0297 (UTC) FILETIME=[4E7C2D90:01C1AA6E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ahren said: "For one thing, some of you hippie shredders just stink." & "Besides shirts, while I'm at it, would you men please wear proper underwear if you are wearing short shorts." Lmao. That is great. It is hilarious, but it is hilarious because it is so true. Very well spoken Ahren. Some people should really take heed to what this guy is telling you. Later Ian Dubman Yeah, yeah, I have been in hibernation. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 13:57:38 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA13448 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 13:57:38 -0800 Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA07852 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:12:56 -0800 Received: from c1277828a ([12.231.62.9]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020201001251.NPOK26243.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@c1277828a> for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 00:12:51 +0000 Message-ID: <00fc01c1aab5$9f5d9f40$96c8000a@sttln1.wa.home.com> From: "Jane Jones" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:15:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Athletic guys kicking with their shirts off is most likely not keeping the women away...think about it. My impression is that most women don't play out of disinterest (e.g. they would rather be doing something else). Keep your shirts on or off if it makes you play better (unless you're in Italy, which, according to Toby, Ryan and Lon, required them to wear shirts by law). Also, I agree with Ahren...some of you guys are ripe! We had to kick some of you smelly footbaggers off of our couch last summer ;-) Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 13:58:27 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA13492 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 13:58:27 -0800 Received: from web13606.mail.yahoo.com (web13606.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.117]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id TAA14796 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 19:26:55 -0800 Message-ID: <20020201032655.9510.qmail@web13606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.20.180.141] by web13606.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 19:26:55 PST Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 19:26:55 -0800 (PST) From: Trevor Jones Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on To: Freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I believe that this whole shirt issue is one person's own judgement call. ME, myself, like to play with my shirt off. And for the promotional question, you could just as easily print a promo on shorts as you could a shirt and you could put something funny like "Kick IT" on the rear. I would love for more people to start playing, it is a great way to have fun and meet new people. I've found when kids or adults see freestyle they are in awe, if you give them a reference, they will follow up with it and may even start. And about the Girl issue i'm perfectly fine with my appearence especially with my shirt off, and those who aren't need to go do some push ups or something. NO OFFENSE. I actually have gotten girls while playing footbag and that is awesome. Anyways you can do whatever you feel is comfortable or not. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 13:59:23 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA13552 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 13:59:23 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f257.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.132]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA31501 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:21:03 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:21:03 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Feb 2002 16:21:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: footbug@hotmail.com, freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 08:21:00 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2002 16:21:03.0371 (UTC) FILETIME=[71805DB0:01C1AB3C] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Peace to all...this shirt thing is missunderstood!!!!!!!!!!!!!Read on fellow footbaggers ........ >From: "Ken Somolinos" >> >>Ahren raises a good point, which is that if we are to be taken >seriously, we >need to be approachable. Wearing shirts is one way to do this, but and >minority groups like women, then we need to be more approachable. It's >intimidating enough as is for interested parties to want to play >2. Allan wrote: >>I totally see what you're saying Ken, but to me, that's one part of >>society >>that we need to change. [I agree..and more...] Footbaggers or not..some things are slowly being changed..for the better too!..I think that most people who replyed to this string took it WAY TOO PERSONALLY!!!! this is about footbag Ya"all not about petty egos...I personly have several intrests in keeping footbag alive and well...footbag will out suvive all of us!! lets make a good mark on it huh? One: to spread happiness and footbag joy everywhere!! Two: to teach others as I was once taught Three: to help change social convictions and resistance to change Four: to offer a peacefull athletic art/sport [Spart?] Five: to promote unity and circles around the world!!!! six: [I forgot what six was for..] lol If I [who really like playing with no shirt] think that a li'll ol' shirt could help...then so be it dude...what do "I" have to lose?..and besides...of what importance is "I" if "I" am not positively affecting the world "I" live in?...HUH?...or perhaps we could all just forget it and say..hmmm..start playing rugby?...or WWF wrestling..now that's worth it.."not"...look guys sorry for all this sarcasm but really..ask your self "WHY DO I PLAY" then all answers shall be revealed to you...If it is just for your-self...then stay at home..by yourself...otherwise we NEED to make footbag advance right?..to integrate with the rest of the world...to promote peace and kicking is much better than whats going on right now.. So How do we do it?..I have a lot of ideas but it seams that every time I mention them on this list..VERY few respond... Why is this?...perhaps we are [all] thinking too much about our selfs..and not enough about the whole..the whole includes all people!! evan if they work for a multi-national monster company..or if they scape through dirt for garbage to eat..we are all + in the end...so lets make this one way ride softer for as many as possable shal we?.. so just think about it...instead of chopping down a good thought on how to promote the ART/SPORT of footbag....perhaps post a few good ideas your self...this does two things...to remove conflict from this list [that is done for free I remind ya all] asnd to spark a few new ideas...if not here Please e-mail me personally... [and one more thing] I love footbag Jubal Hume From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 14:08:13 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA14209 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 14:08:13 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f266.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.141]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA31619 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:26:40 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:26:40 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Feb 2002 16:26:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: Jubal Hume To: torchbap@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 08:26:39 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2002 16:26:40.0087 (UTC) FILETIME=[3A332670:01C1AB3D] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Umm..what does hippy have to do with anything??short haired people smell less?...and Deodorant is ok for anyone..but DO NOT use anything with aluminum oxide in it..unless you like Alzheimer's later... so..is jhonny storm a person or a nic name?...whlo is this?..Ahren G. or Jhonny S.?/? [ MODERATOR'S NOTE: unless I screw up, the "From:" name in the email headers will always show the correct real name. EVERYONE (AOL users excepted because they can't) should make sure that thier real full name is in the From: header when sending mail to footbag.org. This is a list guideline which some of you consistently violate; I'm fixing them for you now, but I might stop doing that in the future. ] >From: Ahren Gehrman >hey yo, >Good topic Ken. Something worth responding to. I >totally agree that in some situations it would be more >appropriate to wear a shirt while kicking, as opposed >to just wearing itsy-bitsy shorts. For one thing, >some of you hippie shredders just stink. I know it's >probably bad for the earth and whatever, but some of >you guys need to seriously think about investing in >some Right Guard or something. I'm serious about >this. It really can be offensive to the public, AND >your friends, if you smell like a dirty hippie. But >if you can't do that because some whale somewhere is >going to die because you support J&J, then please put >on a shirt. > >Besides shirts, while I'm at it, would you men please >wear proper underwear if you are wearing short shorts. > Loose boxers and short shorts equals the perfect >opportunity for people too see things that they might >not want to see. I have made this mistake myself. >"Hey Ahren, one of your nuts is hanging out." Great. >Now I'm sure that there are probably some people who >might not mind seeing us with no shirts and our blue >diamonds hanging out of our shorts, but most people do >mind. So be considerate. > >As for myself, I'm just too damn sexy to wear a shirt, >so there is not much I can do now is there? > >Johnny Storm From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 18:49:13 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA01398 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:49:13 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f30.law6.hotmail.com [216.32.241.30]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA17590; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 15:30:08 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 15:18:12 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw6fd.law6.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Feb 2002 23:18:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jeremy Kumbruch" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 23:18:11 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2002 23:18:12.0246 (UTC) FILETIME=[B7DF9B60:01C1AB76] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > From: Trevor Jones > > > >I believe that this whole shirt issue is one person's >own judgement call. ME, myself, like to play with my >shirt off. But our personal judgements do not just affect us...We are all ambassadors of footbag, and need to work together to promote this wonderful sport/art! And about >the Girl issue i'm perfectly fine with my appearence >especially with my shirt off, and those who aren't >need to go do some push ups or something. NO OFFENSE. >I actually have gotten girls while playing footbag and >that is awesome. Anyways you can do whatever you feel >is comfortable or not. Scoring chicks from playing footbag isn't really the issue Trevor. Isn't our concern getting more people into footbag. I think that all of the factors people have mentioned all contribute to how footbag is perceived and why it still has a relatively small following at the pro level. Shredders don't really "seem" to be having "fun". To anyone who justs want to keep it casual, a shred circle is not appealing. They have to wait forever to get the bag, and then they get it for a few seconds. I had a guy say to me at a party once that he didn't enjoy playing with us (the victoria shredders), and I reactly blindly and said that it wasn't my responsibility to make it fun for him. But after thinking about it for awhile, I realized it is my responsibility. If we want footbag to be played by more people, it is our responsibility. If shredders, when playing in high profile places, took time to tell onlookers about it and encourage people to give it a try, then think what might happen. And when new people join, maybe tone down your play slightly and pass the bag. Get a flow going and have some fun. I am not saying you have to do this all the time, but once in awhile might be really helpful for the overall appreciation of footbag! What do other people think about footbag going "big"? Going "big" doesn't have to be like conventional sports. Hell, i'd be happy with one-tenth of the salary of professional athletes, and i'd do a hell of a lot more then most of them! Just some thoughts....just know the eternal ebb and flow!!!!! From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 18:50:40 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA01478 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:50:40 -0800 Received: from pilot25.cl.msu.edu (pilot25.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.45]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA23592 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:15:47 -0800 Received: from wks4lan (pm242-06.dialip.mich.net [35.9.8.199]) by pilot25.cl.msu.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g122FMt50168 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 21:15:31 -0500 From: "Adam Keith" To: Subject: RE: [freestyle] Nuclear vs. bubba Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 21:23:10 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002a01c1a9c5$8bb79400$8841c2d4@balle> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I think the real key here is that there really is no bubba set (at least not one that I have seen). I think that eggbeater on the way down is just as hard set either from the bubba side or the paradox side (the same goes for any atomic set moves), but the set on a paradox eggbeater is just a little trickier because the bag placement has to be more exact (it is coming across the body first). The reason you see more paradox atom smashers and eggbeaters though is that many people do them with a nuclear set, which means that have to do one less dex on the way down, making them much easier. The same goes with toe set moves, try doing an atomic mirage (atom smasher), then try doing atom smasher all on the way down (alot harder, probably about the same difficulty as a bubba-version of the same move). Bubba moves are definitely hard. I really haven't seen anyone do atom smashers or omelettes on the way down (although I wouldn't put it by some sicko out there). To counter act the difficulty though you could do a set into a bubba move (Flaming Tard for instance), as it is not too much harder than a bubba-version eggbeater as long as you have a skooled stepping set. There are also some moves that are not much harder like barfly and down double down. Personally I think DDD is a little harder than barfly, but not much > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freestyle@footbag.org [mailto:owner-freestyle@footbag.org]On > Behalf Of Maxime Boucoiran > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 2:37 PM > To: freestyle@list.footbag.org > Subject: [freestyle] Nuclear vs. bubba > > > Hey list, > > This has maybe ben debated before as I'm sure it's part of "The Great > Paradox Debate": > > I find that bubba set moves are *much* harder than their paradox/nuclear > conterparts. I thought about this and realised that I hav'nt seen many > clipperset atomsmashers or legbeaters, omelettes etc... on the other hand, > paradox legbeater, pdx atomsmasher (sumo) and others have been > hit countless > times.... I for one can't hit any of those bubba set moves because I find > them very hard, I feel that they should be the ones getting the > PDX add... I > know, I know.... adds don't count for a lot of you, but if bubba sets got > that extra add, maybe we'd be seeing a lot more of those kinds of moves... > and I'd like to see some (if you have any videos, mail me)! > > Anyone share my thoughts (or not) on the subject? > > Max > From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 18:51:47 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA01514 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:51:47 -0800 Received: from pilot25.cl.msu.edu (pilot25.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.45]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA23893 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:22:21 -0800 Received: from wks4lan (pm242-06.dialip.mich.net [35.9.8.199]) by pilot25.cl.msu.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g122MJt60650 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 21:22:19 -0500 From: "Adam Keith" To: "Freestyle" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 21:30:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <00ad01c1a5bb$c50e4a40$6601a8c0@gv.shawcable.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Allen Haggett wrote: > I totally see where you're coming from here. But while I can say > that I have > seen more than a few Infractions that have been carried through so much as > to negate it's "set-ness", I have also seen an Infraction done as a set. > It's all about the point of release. I don't really agree here, I think is has more to do with bag momentum. Many people are saying that an infraction is not a set because the bag has yet come off the foot. I think that we need to be more technical about where exactly a move ends and begins. Personally I think that one move ends and another move begins from the point where the bag begins to move upwards again (or in physics terms the point at which the velocity of the bag in the vertical direction is 0), I call this the cradle point. This would mean eclipses would be include on the end of a move because (if you do you eclipses like mine) you continue to cradle the bag while performing it and the set comes just after the dex is completed. Same goes for rakes. Infraction on the other hand would be tacked on to the beginning because you lift the bag from the cradle point with this movement. Come to think of it this means you could do a hop-over set from an inside delay. That would be real cool!!! By the way, I think infraciton should be 1 add and surging 2 adds for the exact reasons Derrick Fogle stated in his big post. Adam Keith P.S.: I think we need to address the issue of where one move ends and another begins for this very reason, because arguements could be made for breaking them at the point of first contact between the foot and the bag, or at the point of release. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Feb 1 19:52:12 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA03756 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 19:52:12 -0800 Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA03599 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 19:49:41 -0800 Received: from dfiatx96-236.dfiatx.dsl.gtei.net ([4.3.96.236] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 807395 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 01 Feb 2002 21:45:18 -0600 Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 21:51:06 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Derrick Fogle To: "Freestyle" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <160B15DA-1790-11D6-98B9-003065BA9A0E@fogles.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 08:30 PM, Adam Keith wrote: > P.S.: I think we need to address the issue of where one move ends and > another begins for this very reason, because arguements could be made Imagine, for a moment, you have a video of Ryan's Worlds routine and you are responsible for editing it and breaking each move apart into it's own little clip. Would you always make the cuts at the moment the footbag leaves the foot, or would you make the cut somewhere *between* the previous contact and the next release? I would do the latter. Everyone should realize that a move starts when a move starts, and a move ends when a move ends, and that's not always at the point a footbag leaves contact with some part of your body. The momentum of a move can start before the footbag leaves the foot, and the momentum can end after the footbag makes contact again. The best freestylers blend moves together almost beyond distinction, but if you were in charge of breaking a video of a freestyle string into individual moves, you'd still make the edit cut *somewhere*. Yeah, that makes scoring more difficult, and maybe we have to approximate that cut between moves to make scoring feasible. But we shouldn't let compromises we make for scoring keep us from exploring more accurate analysis of our movements. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 3 08:17:52 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA28830 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 08:17:52 -0800 Received: from mx1.mail.ru (mx1.mail.ru [194.67.57.11]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA18843 for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 08:28:11 -0800 Received: from f13.int ([10.0.0.105] helo=f13.port.ru) by mx1.mail.ru with esmtp (Exim 3.14 #1) id 16X31J-00034l-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 19:28:05 +0300 Received: from mail by f13.port.ru with local (Exim 3.14 #1) id 16X318-000MdB-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 19:27:54 +0300 Received: from [199.243.150.89] by win.mail.ru with HTTP; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 19:27:54 +0300 From: "Anthony Zverev" To: freestyle@footbag.org Cc: Subject: [freestyle] Footbag music Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: mPOP Web-Mail 2.19 X-Originating-IP: [199.243.150.89] Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 19:27:54 +0300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was just wondering what genres footbag world champions and footbag freestyle pro's like? What do u think about the most likely "footbag" music? What genres are suitable with freestyle? Anthony Zverev From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 3 08:18:56 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA28873 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 08:18:56 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f169.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.169]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA19267 for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 08:51:00 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 08:39:09 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 16:39:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: mattmueller@home.net, Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 08:39:08 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2002 16:39:09.0145 (UTC) FILETIME=[23161490:01C1AC08] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: "Matt" > >Footbag will never be 'big' and >'successful' until ... > >Personally, I would rather not have it to be a big sport- we don't want it >to turn out like football or other sports of today. > TRUE!! I agree!! We never should let footbag get "like other big sports" so ..as we all know that over the next fifty years footbag will become HUGE...we all have a vested interest in safeguarding what we hold so dear to us...to make sure it doesn't get overly commercialized...we have to be aware of how it is seen..and perceived... It took hockey fifty years to be HUGE...it took soccer years longer than that...basketball..the same deal...footbag is ripe to explode...we must keep our wits and hearts about us.. ..But there is also nothing wrong with making a decent living doing what you love ...specially when it positively affects the world we all live in... This is why it is crucial that we think about what and how we all rep footbag..in circles...at parties, wherever we are... SELLING IS NOT SELLING OUT! Jubal Hume PS: I like making my living from selling footbags and doing shows in schools...never mind international tours..it sure beats the hell outa "would you like fries with that?" or tree planting...If you have tree planted..then you know From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 3 08:21:28 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA28933 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 08:21:28 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f301.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.176]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA19558 for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 09:06:39 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 09:06:39 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 17:06:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: derrick@fogles.net, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Surge V. Infraction Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 09:06:38 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2002 17:06:39.0173 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA945F50:01C1AC0B] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Derrick Fogle >On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 08:30 PM, Adam Keith wrote: > >>P.S.: I think we need to address the issue of where one move ends and >>another begins for this very reason, because arguements could be made > >Imagine, for a moment, you have a video of Ryan's Worlds routine and you >are responsible for editing it and breaking each move apart into it's >own little clip. Would you always make the cuts at the moment the >footbag leaves the foot, or would you make the cut somewhere *between* >the previous contact and the next release? I would do the latter. > >Everyone should realize that a move starts when a move starts, and a >move ends when a move ends, and that's not always at the point a footbag >leaves contact with some part of your body. The momentum of a move can >start before the footbag leaves the foot, and the momentum can end after >the footbag makes contact again. The best freestylers blend moves >together almost beyond distinction, but if you were in charge of >breaking a video of a freestyle string into individual moves, you'd >still make the edit cut *somewhere*. > THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN..."intent of motion" we already do this in so many moves..rake..otherwise it would be a Xby toe...[lol] Intent is deliberate thought that causes action...or a footbag move.. I also like the other post [in same string] about zero G..a move ends when it ends motion..not with contact..a move also starts with motion not leaving contact..because even the cleanest set ever is set by the leg or foot beginning a motion that launches the footbag upwards...or down..heh..but it does start a motion that is guided by the foot [even if it is for a mille second].. imagine this move..[it is hard to do too] an inside stall to hop over to [seamless motion here] infraction to hop over to infraction...hmm...how's that get rated..when you get tired?..lol.. I am just making a point is all..[for fun and point making] lol I also want to add a giant PROPS!!!!! to all who have been working on the moves list[s]... Jubal Hume [The Instigator] heh Nicknames are silly unless someone else gives it to you.. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 3 08:43:14 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA29352 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 08:43:14 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f17.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.17]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA23063 for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 11:06:01 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 11:06:01 -0800 Received: from 132.241.246.112 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 19:06:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [132.241.246.112] From: "Tara Ohr" To: corpofechado@hotmail.com, Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 11:06:00 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2002 19:06:01.0166 (UTC) FILETIME=[A775C6E0:01C1AC1C] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello shredees, Tara signing in on the topic. I have been discussing this with many of my friends who play and I think it is really important to involve everyone! You have have very important point ot make here.... Jeremy Krumbach said... >If we want footbag to be played by more people, it is our responsibility. A New player is going to be intimidated by the level of play that even an intermediate like me plays at. They don't want to look stupid out there in front of everybody and when we do the crazy things we do, it makes their few tricks seem meager to them. Jeremy also said... >If shredders, when playing in high profile places, took time to tell onlookers about it and encourage people to give it a try, then think what might happen. A little encouragement goes a long way. Sit back for a second... let's go on a little trip. Remember way, way back when you first starting kicking. Maybe you saw the circle from a far, maybe it was only one person shredding... what do you remember about you first encounter? Remember the time when you first stepped into a higher level circle and someone gave you props for a certain trick or good string. How did that make you feel? Think about that when a newbie enters the ring, and give them props for kicking successfully. It will usually make them want to do more. Jeremy also said... >And when new people join, maybe tone down your play slightly and pass the >bag. Get a flow going and have some fun. Isn't this what it all about... One thing I loved about playing with Lon is he made the circle get a full hack before we started shredding hard. Circle playing is about a group goal. Accomplishing something together to better each other and support each other. It's a community thang!!!! Thanks for listening. I hope this inspires some of you to let the newbies shine for a moment so they can get the bug that all of us freestylers enjoy so much. Just a thought! tara From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 3 08:54:21 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA29627 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 08:54:21 -0800 Received: from web9807.mail.yahoo.com (web9807.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.32]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id DAA23087 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 03:14:42 -0800 Message-ID: <20020203111442.80694.qmail@web9807.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [141.214.18.229] by web9807.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Feb 2002 03:14:42 PST Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 03:14:42 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Munger Subject: [freestyle] Laver origin? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Guys and Gals. I have an unusual request or question you might say. I have a picture of what appears to be an old school Laver. Since most of us know what our own shoes look like I would like to see about finding the owner of this shoe/picture. I know this sound nutz (ok it is) but mail me direct and I will send out the picture. I REALLY want to know who this shoe belongs too. Thnx Paul Munger From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 3 08:57:03 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA29695 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 08:57:03 -0800 Received: from femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.84]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA20774 for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 09:49:17 -0800 Received: from matt ([24.182.66.10]) by femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20020202174858.LHNO4936.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@matt> for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 09:48:58 -0800 Message-ID: <001b01c1ac12$e38ad580$9fe9b00a@muellerdmn1> From: Matt Mueller To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Why I think we should play with shirts on Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 11:56:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >..But there is also nothing wrong with >making a decent living doing what you >love ... That would be nice. Hopefully in 10 years it will be just big enough for me to get paid professionally. I think Im pretty good, and Im only 13! I would imagine that footbag will be joining the olympics in not too long - it seems like a perfect sport for it (individually scored). From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Feb 3 09:33:35 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA30621 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 09:33:35 -0800 Received: from web13603.mail.yahoo.com (web13603.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.114]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id JAA30553 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 09:28:40 -0800 Message-ID: <20020203172836.94078.qmail@web13603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.255.208.100] by web13603.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Feb 2002 09:28:36 PST Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 09:28:36 -0800 (PST) From: Shaun Marques Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey out there, Tara quoted Jeremy in saying: > A New player is going to be intimidated by the level > of play that even an > intermediate like me plays at. They don't want to > look stupid out there in > front of everybody and when we do the crazy things > we do, it makes their few > tricks seem meager to them. Wow, it's been a while since I wrote. Hrm.. although that's a really good case (intimidation and whatnot), it's just not true for every last newbie out there. Something like two years ago, I went out to Collegeville to check out what Bob Riefer was putting on: The SMURF. I came early, and Dave Sanchez was schooling all sorts of strings with Bob. They were chillin', and I had what.. a few basic stalls. I wasn't intimidated, moreover fascinated by the bread'n'butter tricks that they were hitting. Of course then Ken Somolinos, Kaiser, and Scott showed up, and well.. even more tricks spewed out from these furious shredders. In short: sometimes flashy tricks fascinate, instead of intimidate.. good times fellas, good times. -Shaun Marques From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 4 09:15:12 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA02640 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:15:12 -0800 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA30659 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 09:34:32 -0800 From: Josh Andersen Received: from JKO112@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.26.) id z.c3.1d556890 (25510) for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 12:34:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 12:34:29 EST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 2/3/02 8:41:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, soleairpro@hotmail.com writes: << ..But there is also nothing wrong with making a decent living doing what you love >> when footbag pros start getting rich they'll change. there wouldn't be anymore shreddin (or trying your best) w/ people like dave holton and daryl genz and alex faber haha (small tourny in atlanta) if they were too arrogant to play w/ newbies like me and my friends. just my thoughts Josh Owens ps. i'm sure the professionals of other sports thought they wouldn't turn into... uh jerks too. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 4 09:16:37 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA02748 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:16:37 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f166.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.166]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA11655 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 16:06:16 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 16:06:16 -0800 Received: from 209.79.217.178 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 00:06:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.79.217.178] From: "Randy Magliocca" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Mobius, YES! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 00:06:15 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2002 00:06:16.0115 (UTC) FILETIME=[C39E9830:01C1AD0F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I HIT MOBIUS!!!!!!!! I JUST HIT MOBIUS FOR MY FIRST TIME!! ...Ok now that I have comed down, I have been practicing mobius for a week now and I was not thinking and just gave it a whirl, and I hit it right out of no where. Well sorry for wasting your time, later. Randy"The Magician"Magliocca From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 4 09:18:43 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA02867 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:18:43 -0800 Received: from mail9.bigmailbox.com (mail9.bigmailbox.com [209.132.220.40]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA17745 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 19:30:04 -0800 Received: (from www@localhost) by mail9.bigmailbox.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) id g143Ttj10108; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 19:29:55 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 19:29:55 -0800 Message-Id: <200202040329.g143Ttj10108@mail9.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [198.82.108.60] From: "Joon Chung" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Laver cushions? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, My right foot is starting to hurt from a combination of running and footbag. I was wondering if you guys recommend getting new insoles or just getting a new pair of lavers (or other shoe). Reply privately please =] Thanks, Joon From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 4 09:19:28 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA03124 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:19:28 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f238.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.238]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id HAA31547 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 07:30:50 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 07:19:09 -0800 Received: from 206.21.208.167 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:19:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [206.21.208.167] From: "Noah Jay-Bonn" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 10:19:09 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2002 15:19:09.0678 (UTC) FILETIME=[4B3508E0:01C1AD8F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list, I was lloking around at moves and I noticed a move called Catwalk on www.footbagfreestyle.de I watched it's video and it looks exactly the same as an eclipse, but it is written as a 4 add. The Job's notation for eclipse is: SET > (jump) [BOD] > SAME or OP INSIDE [DEL] > OP OUT [DEX] > (land) The Job's notation for catwalk is:SET > (jump) (BOD) > SAME or OP INSIDE (DEL) > OP OUT (DEX) > (land) OP CLIP (XBD) I guess in Germany they are giving the inside delay carry a cross-body add as well. Just thought I'd point out this discrepancy between the two. Should it be a 3-add move as it is with an eclipse or a 4-add move as it is with the Catwalk? I personally think it should remain as an eclipse, because you dont really do anything extra to get a cross-body add when doing an eclipse; it is just a carry. Anyways, just want to know what you guys think and see what the move should really be. Solo Kicking in Ohio Noah From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 4 09:21:35 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA03218 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:21:35 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f82.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.82]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA02249 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:09:17 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:09:17 -0800 Received: from 161.184.29.230 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 17:09:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.29.230] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 10:09:17 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2002 17:09:17.0540 (UTC) FILETIME=[ADCCC240:01C1AD9E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all! I'm a newbie. I can't do very many moves, and those I can do, I can rarely link to other moves. I spent years "hacking". Which means I could barely toe-stall, I couldn't do a flying clipper, and all my friends were the same. Sure, we had a blast, and it killed a ton of time at lunch and stuff, but back then I didn't know that freestyle existed. I'm talking years. Here's the funky part. IN A DIFFERENT PART OF THE SCHOOL, THERE WERE INCREDIBLE SHREDDERS SHOWING THEIR STUFF, BUT ONLY TO THEMSELVES. When I noticed this, I was impressed, but a little cheesed at their elitist attitude. Picking an isolated part of school to hide away and practice, while mere meters away there's guys struggling with foot stalls and wondering if there's more to the sport. All my friends actually turned out to be their own version of "Newbie Elite". They totally looked down on the freestylers. Maybe cuz they were too good, maybe cuz they were elitist, whatever. I wanted to learn all these crazy tricks, but I had to do it behind my friend's backs, and I had to learn under a lot of scrutiny and intimidation, so much that I eventually just forgot about public shred and just hacked with my friends, no clippers. When I got home at night, I'd spend about a half an hour trying to school a few moves. Eventually I reached the point of newbeism (After breaking my toe and bringing myself back from the beginning). Most of my friends still call freestyle footbag "Jamie-hack", after the best shredder out of the bunch at my old school. They thought he was a cyborg, totally out of their league. And now to the point. If me and my friends had been accepted into that group (And I'm not saying it was all their fault), I would be quite professional by now, and so would many of my friends, no doubt. The job does lie with the freestyler to bring in newbies, not to be elite and better than others. But also the job lies with the newbies. Don't disrespect your friends if they want to go on to a higher level. If a person leaves his/her group of friends to shred with another group, don't look down on them, they're still your friend. They're the ones taking the initiative, and if you don't want to be shunned, join the party! Circle hacking and freestyle should be grouped into one. I think that if a school or other establishment already has very few footbaggers, they should stick together, no matter what their ability. If I see a person who is at the level I was back then, I walk up to them, sure I'm embarrassed if they're with a lot of friends, but I ask if they want to shred. "What's shred" they say. That's my favorite question. I love teaching newbies what we do, and everybody else should too. Oh yeah! And I've never attracted more people with a shirt on than with my shirt off. I ALWAYS attract more people with my shirt off, simply cuz I don't smell, and I freestyle better with no shirt. I believe the shirt doesn't make a difference unless it affects your shred ability, and it affects mine for the worst. No offence to anyone, but if you wear short shorts, wear briefs man! I wear zip-off khakis, about mid-thigh length. I've never flashed a nut. I think that would DEFINITELY scare off a group of young newbies. Use your better judgement. There's my input on the subject. I've divulged my past to everybody. There ya go. Peace out list Dylan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 4 11:13:39 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA10202 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 11:13:39 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f146.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.146]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA09812 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:58:30 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:58:30 -0800 Received: from 161.184.29.148 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 18:58:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.29.148] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 11:58:29 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2002 18:58:30.0315 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF8EDFB0:01C1ADAD] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, I'm hearing this all over the place. Catwalk IS an Eclipse. It's just another way of wording it. I like both names. I'm pretty sure Catwalk is a more international name, but as far as I know, Eclipse has been around longer. As far as the extra add goes, you see this sort of thing on all sorts of sites. Pogo being counted as Symposium, XBD being included in the set (Come on!), and Eclipse getting XBD for the delay. In different countries they use different ruling systems, and you just have to pick the one you think defines the moves best. Pogo gets an add if you are counting the move components, but not difficulty, and in America, believe it or not, adds are used to partially measure difficulty (Not opening can of worms, not opening can of worms). In places where adds measure only move components, Eclipse should probably get XBD because it ends on XBD, but that's not the way it is here. Anyway, I like both names, and on my move-list they're both three adds and listed under the same Jobs' notation. (Set>Jump>Same/Op Inside>Op Out>Set>Land) I think this explains the move best, but that's just my opinion. Peace all, Dylan >From: "Noah Jay-Bonn" > >Hey list, > I was lloking around at moves and I noticed a move called Catwalk on >www.footbagfreestyle.de I watched it's video and it looks exactly the same >as an eclipse, but it is written as a 4 add. > The Job's notation for eclipse is: SET > (jump) [BOD] > SAME or OP INSIDE >[DEL] > OP OUT [DEX] > (land) > The Job's notation for catwalk is:SET > (jump) (BOD) > SAME or OP INSIDE >(DEL) > OP OUT (DEX) > (land) OP CLIP (XBD) [ moderator's ] From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 4 13:05:18 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA14548 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:05:18 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f304.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.179]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA12206 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:11:42 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:11:42 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 20:11:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: jko112@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 12:11:42 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2002 20:11:42.0582 (UTC) FILETIME=[298DA160:01C1ADB8] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I am getting irritated by the way people look at a fiscal success...does anyone get it?? YOU CAN SELL..without selling out!!!! You can even use Big multinationals for your own reasons!!..I was on the Starburst Promotion in Czech Rep. look what happened there!! so who won...footbag or Starburst?..I say that a giant company that is cool enough to see footbags attractiveness to the youth is a cool enough company to work with in the promoting od footbag...how many companies can you name [that don't make footbags] that promote it??? ok ok..read on... >From: Josh Andersen [[responds to Jubal Hume]] >soleairpro@hotmail.com writes: > ><< ..But there is also nothing wrong with making a decent living doing what > you love >> >when footbag pros start getting rich they'll change. there wouldn't be >anymore shredding (or trying your best) w/ people like dave holton and >daryl >genz and alex faber haha (small tourny in atlanta) if they were too >arrogant >to play w/ newbies like me and my friends. >just my thoughts >Josh Owens >ps. i'm sure the professionals of other sports thought they wouldn't turn >into... uh jerks too. Well now.. I play with almost anyone who will play with me..and I have been playing for almost 17 years... I have been making a living off of footbag [shows or footbag sales or international promotions]No..not all my living..[yet]..but soon perhaps... :-) ...and I know this is not the amount of $$ you speak of..like a Pro Basket ball player etc..but I go out of my way to play with kids and newbies ..to train them to show them the fun and moves that are there for the schooling...ask anyone who has played with me as a newbie...say..um Allan H...Jeremy K...Dylan F ...Judy A... and so many more I cant even remember them all..lol....now..in real life sometimes we all are jerks..but in a circle I AM NOT...at a Demo I am not..so..how your comment relates to making a living from being a professional footbager...Hmmm?????? When some footbaggers Inherit their parents cash..they may change too...so what ..we all should go on welfare??? or as Allan said..go get a Job??? I think not ..unless you want to..just keep pushing forward and do what you can to make a living and NOT become an asshole... Some of the kindest and coolest footbagers are making a good bit of Cash from it..are they asholes?..no!..Most footbagers are good people!!! [most people are just good people] I think that a poor asshole will stay an asshole when he/she becomes rich..and a good person will become a rich good person when they get rich..and some are going to change from it..some will not change...but that is each persons thing to deal with...NOT FOOTBAGS.. footbag is the whole that includes all players...but each of us is solely responsible for ourselves, rich or not. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Feb 4 13:09:45 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA14719 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:09:45 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f41.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.41]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA12807 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:20:05 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:20:01 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 20:20:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: shags125@hotmail.com, freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 12:20:00 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2002 20:20:01.0323 (UTC) FILETIME=[52D377B0:01C1ADB9] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: "Dylan Livingston" Use your better judgement. >There's my input on the subject. I've divulged my past to Peace out list >Dylan Thanks Dylan...You rock! I admire your candor...and the truth therin... I [only want to add one thing..USE YOU BEST JUDGEMENT!!!] lol..but true.. in some cases a t-shirt is a good thing..in some it doesn't matter..you all will have to decide...but as they say..a picture is worth a thousand words...so a footbag t-shirt logo is worth............... worth wearing [at least sometimes] :-) Jubal Hume From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 5 17:33:24 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA16691 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 17:33:24 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f218.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.218]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA15192 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:22:35 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:22:34 -0800 Received: from 161.184.26.246 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:22:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.26.246] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:22:34 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2002 21:22:34.0921 (UTC) FILETIME=[10251190:01C1ADC2] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jubal Wrote: >Thanks Dylan...You rock! Thanks Jubal...You too! >in some cases a t-shirt is a good thing..in some it doesn't matter..you all >will have to decide...but as they say..a picture is worth a thousand >words...so a footbag t-shirt logo is worth............... >worth wearing [at least sometimes] :-) I agree with this. Advertising is a great thing for if you are just figuring out what freestyle is. I also like the idea of advertising on shorts (As long as they aren't short shorts with boxers ;) But really, will it help matters much? In my "story" I don't think it would have changed any if those stylaz were wearing footbag shirts. Truth is, if a shredder is being intimidating and shunning the newbies, noone's going to care about their shirt, and if a person sees a sport that's intimidating, they'll probably avoid footbag.org for fear of being intimidated. That's what this is all about. It's the same topic as Ken came up with with the shirt thing. I personally think wearing an [Unlabeled] shirt doesn't attract or detract from the number of onlookers. But if you're being an asshole in the circle, you WILL scare people off. Since the days of my first pixie, I've learned that most shredders are very nice people. But there's lots out there who are elitist, and this is no way to expand the sport. Even if you're wearing a "Footbag is cool at footbag.org" t-shirt. If you want to spread the word outside of the circle, set up demos at school gyms and stuff. At these venues, when there's not as much personal connection to each person, advertising is a must. Whether it's a t-shirt, shorts, or posters, or whatever. But if you're shredding with four or five newbies in a circle, a shirt won't make much difference, you just have to be nice and impressive and tell those newbies where to go if they want to find out more. I'm rambling because I've already said all there is to say, but I feel like I missed something...hmm... Anyway, peace list. Dylan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 5 17:35:07 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA16765 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 17:35:07 -0800 Received: from moutvdom01.kundenserver.de (moutvdom01.kundenserver.de [195.20.224.200]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA18786 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 14:57:41 -0800 Received: from [195.20.224.204] (helo=mrvdom00.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom01.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16Xs3C-0002a2-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 23:57:26 +0100 Received: from [217.230.162.232] (helo=x) by mrvdom00.kundenserver.de with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16Xs3B-0006cU-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 23:57:26 +0100 Message-ID: <004401c1adcf$66e8c190$b77ba8c0@x> From: "Matthias Lino Schmidt" To: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 23:58:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org From: "Dylan Livingston" > Catwalk IS an Eclipse. As much as Eggbeater equals Eggplant. > It's just another way of wording it. > I like both names. I'm pretty sure Catwalk is a > more international name, 'Catwalk' is Philipp Schaefer's term for doing a certain move in a certain way. Nothing official, nothing agreed on, nothing international. > As far as the extra add goes, you see this sort of thing on all > sorts of sites. Pogo being counted as Symposium, XBD being included in the > set (Come on!), and Eclipse getting XBD for the delay. As far as the extra add goes, ............. I don't care! > In different > countries they use different ruling systems, Assuming you also mean Germany: We're trying to be as exact as everyone is! Speaking of a different ruling system is immensely exaggerated. Matthias. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 5 17:37:09 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA16862 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 17:37:09 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA23494 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:35:34 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GR109B01AZA2N@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 17:35:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GR109AEVAZA9W@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 17:35:34 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 17:18:16 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk To: freestyle Message-id: <3C5850F8@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From Dylan Livingston ===== >I'm hearing this all over the place. Catwalk IS an Eclipse. It's just >another way of wording it. I like both names. I'm pretty sure Catwalk is a >more international name, >In different countries they use different ruling systems, and you just have to pick the one you think defines the moves best. I can't believe how incredibly appauled I am at the idea that this might actually be true. For starters, if "catwalk" and Eclipse are truly the same move then one of them needs to go. Catwalk, as I remember was introduced a while back by somebody who didn't know it was already named ECLIPSE. Okay so now everyone knows it was already named eclipse and for the sake of consistency amongst the players and freestyle as a whole, it really needs to remain ONE NAME. So I call on all of you who have a moves list on the internet to remove Catwalk. Eclipse has been one of the longest standing tricks in the history of the sport and it need not be confused with anything else. As for the Judging thing. Don't just choose which ever one you like the best. Pay attention to the guidelines that are already laid out. There are always going to be problems with the add system. It is my personal feeling that moves involving X-dex and spinning paradox are far more of an issue than Eclipse. If their is a question about Eclipse being worth 4 adds because it ends in a crossbody delay then I say it is merely a question of whether or not the move is notated correctly. I say there is no dex in Eclipse. The hopping motion over the catch foot is a BODY move and not a dex. So it's really (again in my opinion) a body add> delay add> x-body add. "Oh Bother", said Pooh. Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 5 17:40:38 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA17013 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 17:40:38 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f166.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.166]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id AAA17121 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 00:03:37 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 00:03:37 -0800 Received: from 64.12.102.172 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Feb 2002 08:03:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.12.102.172] From: "Ethan Husted" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] CSS3 lowdown Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 01:03:36 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Feb 2002 08:03:37.0111 (UTC) FILETIME=[9D658270:01C1AE1B] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. Preparation CSS3 is in its final stages of completion. I would like to thank all who have contributed to the Symposium, we have an unbelievable amount of sponsorship this year. I am also proud to say we have secured two fine location sites for both days, well lit, good floors, good locations, and plenty of space. When I got the estimate of how many people were coming this year, I realized the Toadstool would simply not be able to hold this many people. With the two new locations, there will be more than enough room. Just a few people expected to be in attendence: Five time singles World champion, Peter Irish Two time singles World champion, Rick Reese Bazillion time World champion, Kenny Shultz World champion Scott Davidson Lon Smith Sunil Jani Ellis Piltz Richy Abshire Chad Devlahovich Yacine Merzouk Jon Schneider Brian Mckenzie GF Smoothie Paul Munger Steve Goldberg The Dallas crew The Chicago Inner Circle ...and about a million other people. There will be a party Saturday night beginning at 9pm, at my friend Sven Jorgensen's juggling and dance studio, located near the host hotel, on the other side of Crossroads mall. More info will be given out the day of the party at Mt. Zion. A very special thanks to Rick Reese, whose extremely generous contribution has helped complete the prize status for the tourney. Thanx Rippin'! To be very clear again, NEITHER DAY OF THE SYMPOSIUM WILL BE HELD AT THE TOADSTOOL PLAYHOUSE. Day 1 will now be held at Mt. Zion Church and School. Driving directions from the host hotel go as follows: Go north on 28th until you reach Valmont, about a mile down. Take a left. About a mile down Valmont will cross 19th street, and automatically become Balsam. Keep going straight. About four blocks up on your left will be Mt. Zion. Turn left on 17th street and park in the school lot. The sports facility will be right there. If you are walking from the Golden Buff hotel, (it is a half an hour walk) go north on 28th to Pearl St. and take a left. Follow Pearl towards the mountains for about half a mile. When you reach the cross streets of Pearl and 20th, take a right. You will follow 20th up over a hill, directly after which 20th will automatically turn into 19th. At the bottom of the hill will be the cross street of 19th and Balsam. Take a left and go up four blocks. Zion will be on your left. Another four blocks up is Broadway, and many places to get food. Well, that's it for right now. I will post again if and when any other details come up. Boulder Blades has been working on this for many months now. We look forward to seeing all of you here and shredding. late redredredredredredshredzredredredredredethanredredredredredredredredred From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 5 17:43:50 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA17092 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 17:43:50 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f191.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.191]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA28254 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 08:01:34 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 08:01:34 -0800 Received: from 206.15.253.3 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:01:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [206.15.253.3] From: "Randy Magliocca" To: redshredz@hotmail.com, freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Want ride to Colorado Shred Symposium Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:01:26 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Feb 2002 16:01:34.0030 (UTC) FILETIME=[622C16E0:01C1AE5E] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello my name is Randy"The Magician"Magliocca. I really want to go to the CSS but Im only 14 and cant drive, and no one can give me a ride. I am asking if there is someone going to the event that could give me a ride. I live in Nevada City CA. There must be someone going through there that could give me a ride. Well if you can or know someone that can, please email me. Randy Magliocca >From: "Ethan Husted" >Subject: [announce] Third Annual Colorado Shred Symposium - Feb. 23-24 > >I am honored to announce the final details of the Colorado Shred Symposium >3 >have been completed. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:29:00 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA11804 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:29:00 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f139.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.139]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA21675 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 15:53:03 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 15:40:59 -0800 Received: from 142.173.195.45 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Feb 2002 23:40:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [142.173.195.45] From: "Rob Fuller" To: shags125@hotmail.com Cc: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:40:55 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2002 23:40:59.0732 (UTC) FILETIME=[6632A940:01C1ADD5] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dillan Wrote ........................ >I'm a newbie. I can't do very many moves, and those I can do, I can rarely >link to other moves. I spent years "hacking". Which means I could barely >toe-stall, I couldn't do a flying clipper, and all my friends were the >same. > Sure, we had a blast, and it killed a ton of time at lunch and stuff, but >back then I didn't know that freestyle existed. I'm talking years. >Here's the funky part. IN A DIFFERENT PART OF THE SCHOOL, THERE WERE >INCREDIBLE SHREDDERS SHOWING THEIR STUFF, BUT ONLY TO THEMSELVES. >When I noticed this, I was impressed, but a little cheesed at their elitist >attitude. Picking an isolated part of school to hide away and practice, >while mere meters away there's guys struggling with foot stalls and >wondering if there's more to the sport. Etc............ Firstly, since I know Jamie personally and play in an "isolated" part of my school. I have to say your going way out of line to "shun" then for what they do and assuming they have an "elitist" attitude. Firstly, do you ever find the most crowded place where you can barely move, your closed in and couldn't even kick with control because of the people walking past? No, you would find somewhere were you can play without hassel. Our principal at my school takes bags away from kids, so in winter, are we being snobs because we go somewhere with minimal people? You've played with us before inside a racquetball court, so your an elitist snob too I guess for not sharing your gift with the world. What I'm trying to get at is that people have reasons for doing things, and just because there are people near by who aren't quite as "advanced" or serious about the sport as they are doesn't mean they should go invade them or be expected to initiate anything. (this could also tie into the "hippy" stench issue) Just my 2 dollars and 25 and a half cents. Rob Fuller From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:32:19 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA11941 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:32:19 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f90.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.90]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA18044 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 18:07:16 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 18:07:12 -0800 Received: from 207.194.21.34 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Feb 2002 02:07:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.194.21.34] From: "Jonathan Zaleski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Q's about Pixie Backspinning, Triple-Dex, and more Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 18:07:12 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2002 02:07:12.0500 (UTC) FILETIME=[FD969340:01C1AEB2] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Original Subject: man, I just cant stop thinkin about footbag What is up my fellow shredders, I got some questions, Has any pixie backspinning stuff been hit? I had pixie backspinning osis and mirage on my foot, its pretty damn hard, props to anyone who's even hit a pixie backspinning toe stall. I know butterfly twirl's been hit , but what about butterfly swivel, and if it has, has spinning ducking butterfly swivel been hit, or any set into a ducking butterfly swivvel? That would be like eight adds of pure sickness. Has whirling twirl or whirling swivel been hit? Gyro whirr? lol, im just recieving all the footbag emails as i right this:p good timing jon.... Are there any triple dexing sets? maybe pixie quantum atomic(pixie sailing) Ive also been playin around with a fairy same side quantum set. I havent hit anything out of it yet, but it seems pretty possible. And does anyone know the prices of richie bags in canadian One more thing, whats desien? Ive racked my brain of all my footbag questions.... fer now. So later days Jonzy From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:33:01 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA12004 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:33:01 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f47.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.47]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA22226 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 19:26:37 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 19:26:37 -0800 Received: from 63.20.91.245 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Feb 2002 03:26:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.20.91.245] From: "Glenn "BoZ" Gentzke" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 22:26:37 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2002 03:26:37.0710 (UTC) FILETIME=[15DFEAE0:01C1AEBE] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From what i understand, the eclipse involves an op [dex] after the inside catch, therefore it would have to be a dex, just as a butterfly gets a dex, how could it not? if the eclipse is caught in a toe delay, then there shouldnt be a xbody add, but if caught in a clipper it should get the xbody add. please correct if im wrong but it seems that the eclipse is essentially a mid-air inside delay to butterfly (i could be very wrong) but this is coming from the jobs: set > jump [bod] > inside [del] (Release) > op out [dex] > catch [del] (or clip [xbd] [del]) i dont think i have that right since wiht the clipper it should have 5 adds counting a midair delay? reply privately with corrections. As far as names go, cat walk could be for an eclipse caught in clipper? im too new to the sport to dictate names (though i still want spanto to be known (grrrrrrr)) so ill drop that where it lies. Piece out kiddies ~Glenn "BoZ" Gentzke From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:34:40 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA12075 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:34:40 -0800 Received: from femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.144]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA23400 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 20:03:33 -0800 Received: from matt ([24.182.66.10]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20020206040318.GLZA20324.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@matt> for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 20:03:18 -0800 Message-ID: <000b01c1aec4$2db145a0$9fe9b00a@muellerdmn1> From: Matt Mueller To: Subject: [freestyle] Want ride to Colorado Shred Symposium (2) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:10:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If anyone is going through or near (southern) Iowa let me know. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:35:24 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA12133 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:35:24 -0800 Received: from femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.128]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA23475 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 20:05:14 -0800 Received: from matt ([24.182.66.10]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20020206040514.QBVP18525.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@matt> for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 20:05:14 -0800 Message-ID: <001901c1aec4$7299f540$9fe9b00a@muellerdmn1> From: Matt Mueller To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:12:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org But catwalk is a better (and more fitting in my opinion) name. Dont want to start an argument though. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:36:02 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA12186 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:36:02 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA26477 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:28:39 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GR302801LZRTS@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 05 Feb 2002 23:28:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.mscd.edu ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GR30285BLZROO@clem.mscd.edu>; Tue, 05 Feb 2002 23:28:39 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 23:11:18 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk To: freestyle@footbag.org, Matt Kain Lewandowski Message-id: <3C593A2F@webmail.mscd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Okay, thanks to Matt Kain I've finally seen the video of "Catwalk". I've been doing Eclipse that way for about 5 years and I still think it's an Eclipse. My opinion is still that there is no need to name it something else to distinguish it. In times like these I say we stick to terms like "crispy" and "original recipe" to distinguish them. Just say you hit an Eclipse. If someone really gives a sh't how then tell them Crispy or Original. flog me with a spoon, Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:36:39 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA12224 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:36:39 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f193.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.193]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA17310 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:20:05 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:20:04 -0800 Received: from 161.184.27.54 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Feb 2002 19:20:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.27.54] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 12:20:04 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2002 19:20:04.0922 (UTC) FILETIME=[4807B9A0:01C1AF43] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Brad Kaplan Wrote: >I can't believe how incredibly appauled I am at the idea that this might >actually be true. > For starters, if "catwalk" and Eclipse are truly the same move then >one >of them needs to go. This is an interesting point. I've seen this before too. Here's a list of moves with more than one name. I urge freestylers to write me and decide which name deserves to stay, and which we should throw out, or use for a different move. I'll post the results in a week or two. Just remember, if Catwalk goes, several stylaz who have been hitting this for years may take offence. Anyway, here's a few examples: Pincher/Squeeze for back of knee stall Eclipse/Catwalk for mid-air reverse hopover release Paste/Egg Mixer for Pixie Pickup Rasmus/Skull Smasher for Atomic Ducking Mirage Wet Dream/Flaming Tard for Stepping Eggbeater (Flaming tard was thrown out for not being politically correct) Aeon Flux/Nucleosis for Pdox Flux Fearosis(Ferocious)/Forque for Fairy Torque (Forquelift is Fairy ducking torque) Neutron Smasher/Johnny Quest for Spin Pdox Atom Smasher Pixie Warrior/Phoenix for Pixie ducking Butterfly S.P.A.S.(Spaz)/Terrasmasher for Symp. Pdox Atom Smasher Void/Lotus for Spin Pdox Drifter Id/Your Mom for Atomic Ducking Double over down And that's all I noticed on my move-list. I won't delete Catwalk yet, cuz it seems there's a lot of moves that are known by different names depending who you ask. I know Eclipse is sort of engrained in most of us, but I want to see if people take offence to the deletion of Catwalk. I think that might be the case, but we'll see! Reply directly and I'll post the results. Maybe we can clean this up a little. Peace out list! Dylan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:38:54 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA12385 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:38:54 -0800 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA30209 for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2002 16:21:56 -0800 From: Matthew Cross Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id z.11a.bc57fa1 (4413) for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2002 19:21:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <11a.bc57fa1.2998689d@aol.com> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 19:21:49 EST Subject: [freestyle] Unusual Surface delay To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 7 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dear Freestyle Community, http://ludo88.free.fr/footbag/videos/video/dickstl.mpg I just feel like everyone should know about this so they can start putting it in their routines. Go France ;) Matthew Cross Rochester Footbag Association Rochester, NY From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 10:39:58 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA12469 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:39:58 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f18.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.18]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id FAA01526 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 05:37:28 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 05:37:27 -0800 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:37:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Stepping negates paradox in some moves? Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 05:37:27 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Feb 2002 13:37:27.0719 (UTC) FILETIME=[6975FB70:01C1B3CA] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org As my knee slowly gets better [whew] I am starting to mess around a bit... I was thinking of a spins negation of paradox...and how you have to switch legs to get paradox...then I started thinking..[uh oh]..:-) in some moves [oh no, here it comes] that stepping also seems to negate paradox..whereas fairy enhances paradox [even though it is not a "true" paradox] IE: fairy mirage if a blur is done side by side with a paradox mirage..you can feel the difference.. ..comments?..anyone? From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Feb 12 11:46:13 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA15146 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:46:13 -0800 Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA14891 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:40:38 -0800 Received: from derrick.mlerf.org ([207.160.174.20] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.2) with ESMTP id 819247 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:35:43 -0600 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:42:06 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unusual Surface delay Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <11a.bc57fa1.2998689d@aol.com> Message-Id: <98573BB8-1FF0-11D6-98AA-003065BA9A0E@fogles.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sunday, February 10, 2002, at 06:21 PM, Matthew Cross wrote: > I just feel like everyone should know about this so they can start > putting it in their routines. As list moderator, I wondered for a moment whether or not I should post this. But... I just had to, since this move may be my one great claim to 'move first' fame! I, the funky chicken, began my '96 Worlds routine with this move, which I named the 'stroke'. Judges at the time saw it as a 2-add move: unusual surface and delay (actually, it's more of a roll than a delay I think). -Derrick PS - Dylan, I expect to see this move in the next revision of your moves list PSS - The kick version of the move is called the 'poke'. PSSS - It might not have actually been '96, but it certainly should be remembered that way PSSSS - end of this discussion thread. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Feb 13 13:45:15 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA05313 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:45:15 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f268.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.143]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA26975 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:54:59 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:54:55 -0800 Received: from 208.141.176.69 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:54:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [208.141.176.69] From: "Jim Penske" To: soleairpro@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Stepping negates paradox in some moves? Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:54:55 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Feb 2002 23:54:55.0679 (UTC) FILETIME=[ABC40CF0:01C1B420] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: "Jubal Hume" >To: freestyle@footbag.org >Subject: [freestyle] Stepping negates paradox in some moves? >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 05:37:27 -0800 > > whereas fairy enhances paradox [even though it is not a "true" >paradox] IE: fairy mirage I think that a lot of fairy moves feel much more paradox than blurry moves. Shouldn't there be a paradox add for moves like fairy op torque, fairy op drifter, fairy op blender, ect. After all there is one hell of a hip pivot in there. Jim Penske From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Feb 13 13:44:35 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA05284 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:44:35 -0800 Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA20045 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:16:49 -0800 Received: from attbi.com ([12.238.156.205]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020212211649.YSOT2951.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@attbi.com> for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:16:49 +0000 Message-ID: <3C698752.1752AE7E@attbi.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:21:22 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derrics1@attbi.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Q's about Pixie Backspinning, Triple-Dex, and more References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jonathan Zaleski wrote: > > One more thing, whats desien? Pixie legbeater (where the first two dexes are done at the same time). Frank Gutowski was the first person I saw hitting this back at '99 Worlds. What ever happened to that guy? -Derric From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Feb 13 13:46:18 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA05381 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:46:18 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f179.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.179]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA28022 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:25:15 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:25:15 -0800 Received: from 161.184.26.208 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:25:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.26.208] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: soleairpro@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Stepping negates paradox in some moves? Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:25:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Feb 2002 00:25:15.0439 (UTC) FILETIME=[E86D63F0:01C1B424] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sorry. This scares me a lot. Paradox is already hard enough to understand. Please don't make it harder. I think Blur is harder than Stepping Pickup, and although the dex might be a little easier in blur than pdox mirage, it is still paradox because you still need to move your leg into position. You can't set the bag to make the dex like a normal mirage either way, so it's paradox. Ok. Dylan >From: "Jubal Hume" > > As my knee slowly gets better [whew] I am starting to mess around a >bit... I was thinking of a spins negation of paradox...and how you have to >switch legs to get paradox...then I started thinking..[uh oh]..:-) >in some moves [oh no, here it comes] that stepping also seems to negate >paradox..whereas fairy enhances paradox [even though it is not a "true" >paradox] IE: fairy mirage >if a blur is done side by side with a paradox mirage..you can feel the >difference.. > >..comments?..anyone? From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Feb 13 13:46:56 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA05425 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:46:56 -0800 Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA08374 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:57:18 -0800 Received: from c1277828a ([12.231.62.9]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020213075710.SZEC1214.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@c1277828a>; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:57:10 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c1b464$7f120060$96c8000a@sttln1.wa.home.com> From: "Alex Zerbe" To: "Dylan Livingston" , References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:00:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In my opinion an eclipse and a catwalk are two different moves. From the video I've seen a catwalk does not get a body add because the bag is still delayed when you land. It is my understanding that you only get a body if you execute a complete contact while in the air. This is the technical difference seperating the two moves Alex From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 14 09:01:40 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA08002 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:01:40 -0800 Received: from ecsmtp01.ec.rockwell.com ([199.191.58.7]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA05982 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:54:59 -0800 From: daniel.klokow@rockwellfirstpoint.com Subject: [freestyle] PSTOFF room space? To: freestyle@footbag.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.7 March 21, 2001 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:54:05 -0600 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on ECSMTP01/EC/Rockwell(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 02/13/2002 03:52:42 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sup, Im looking for others that might be going out to PSTOFF Jam who are in need of roommates. Let me know asap if you would like to split a room with me and possibly one or two other CIC members. We are driving out Friday night and will need a place to sleep that night and Sat night, We are driving back Sunday after some shred. Please contact me personally if you can help out. Any floor space near the sight at someones house would be awesome too. Thanks, and I will see you ALL at CSS3!! PS.. Is anyone from Boulder going to makin any trips to the airport on Friday?? I would generously repay anyone who could hook me up with a ride to the host hotel. Or, if others are arriving at the same time (1:47pm) we could share a cab to save some doh. Again contact me personally. Peace. Thanks :) Dan Klokow Chicago Inner Circle Home - pornstar2713@prodigy.net Work - daniel.klokow@rockwellfirstpoint.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 14 09:02:58 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA08051 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:02:58 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f272.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.16.147]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA07059 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:11:36 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:11:35 -0800 Received: from 68.80.0.8 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:11:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.80.0.8] From: "David Tomlinson" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Our first competition! Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:11:35 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Feb 2002 22:11:35.0378 (UTC) FILETIME=[6682F320:01C1B4DB] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list, Today we held our first annual footbag competiton at lower merion high school!!! we had it on the morning announcments for a few days and about 20-30 people where there. Mainly people at our school just kick, so most people mocked the idea of a competition. We had to tend to their needs to get more people to come, so we had an endurance event along with our sick3 and open shred. The guitar and drum circle club decided to come down into the gym and jam with us. It all went really well. The school decided to give out prizes for the endurance and open shred; $20 gift certificates to borders!!! Our tax dollars at work!!! Just telling all of you, david tomlinson From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 14 09:03:37 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA08086 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:03:37 -0800 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA09805 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:55:05 -0800 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) id <0GRH06501UBOOM@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:55:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GRH06HATUBN6U@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:54:59 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:37:28 -0700 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Stepping negates paradox in some moves? To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3C5E1F8B@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I don't know where the subject line comes from, because I haven't seen anything to support it other than fairie moves are paradoxish which makes no sense for the title. I'm a supporter of Spinning Paradox. I'm also a supporter of X-dex. As for fairie paradoxes... I'm skeptical. Here is what I think would be required to make such a thing fly. First, the definition of paradox would have to be changed to omit the necessity of the set beginning from a x-body position. Second, it would have to include a statement to the effect that if the set is not from x-body then a dex or body movement could maneuver the bag into a x-body position where it is possible to achieve a paradox with an additional hip-pivoting dexterity. Wow, that almost sounds plausible. Come to the Shred Symposium, Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 14 09:05:07 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA08187 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:05:07 -0800 Received: from smtprelay7.dc2.adelphia.net (smtprelay7.dc2.adelphia.net [64.8.50.39]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA12814 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:54:03 -0800 Received: from alex ([24.50.240.213]) by smtprelay7.dc2.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 smtprelay7 Dec 7 2001 09:58:59) with SMTP id GRHX1R00.SSH for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:53:51 -0500 Message-ID: <001201c1b4e9$457bb780$0201a8c0@clvhoh.adelphia.net> From: "alex ciarlillo" To: Subject: [freestyle] Different bag comparisons? Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well my revolution was recently lost/stolen not sure which but I am going to buy a new footbag. Before my revolution I had a dirtbag and I liked it but the suede seemed to thick and it seemed to quickly run out of sand. My friend has Sand Bag that I got him, 8 panel super thin suede, I enjoyed it but it seemed very 'floppy' and didnt hold shape very well. As for the revolution it was a good bag but it seemed to small and not as stallable as either of the other two tho I only had it for about a month so it may not have been broken in? Anyway at this point I am gonna go back to a dirt bag but was wondering if anyone had opinions on these which also look good: The Sandmaster (footmart) or The Sandblaster (footmart). I dont think I am quite ready to take that step of paying more than 15 bucks for a bag since I am still quite a newbie but any other suggestions under/around 15 bucks would be appreciated. Thanks, alex From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 14 09:05:54 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA08213 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:05:54 -0800 Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA18569 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:40:34 -0800 Received: from sdn-ar-004nynyorp280.dialsprint.net ([168.191.122.210] helo=0017407414) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16bAsu-0007nU-00 for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:40:29 -0800 Message-ID: <003901c1b4f8$5608f040$d27abfa8@0017407414> From: "Josh Penney" To: References: <200202132326.PAA11468@llic.net> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Eclipse vs. Catwalk Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:38:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Zerbe! You Rock! > In my opinion an eclipse and a catwalk are two different moves. From the > video I've seen a catwalk does not get a body add because the bag is still > delayed when you land. It is my understanding that you only get a body if > you execute a complete contact while in the air. > This is the technical difference seperating the two moves While I agree that they are different for the reason you specified; I must mention the discrepancy between your "complete contact" and IFC. The ifc rules state an add contact is "either a kick or a delay, made while executing a move with at least one add". No mention is given to the release; so there we go- two versions for the definition of "contact". For that matter, as far as composition rules are concerned, paradon-barfly-down double-double over down are all the same move. Any judges out there feel the same way? Any suggestions for an addendum to the composition rules or a definition of contact? From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 14 09:06:52 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA08311 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:06:52 -0800 Received: from web20106.mail.yahoo.com (web20106.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.43]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id SAA21265 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:38:10 -0800 Message-ID: <20020214023808.38124.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.249.152.32] by web20106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:38:08 PST Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:38:08 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Reile Subject: Re: [freestyle] Stepping negates paradox in some moves? To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I agree that fairy moves or atomic move have more of a hip crank, or paradox feel, than most blurry moves, but I think that was what x-dex was meant for. Rather than altering the already confusing paradox add, which has been well-defined, I think we should really start implementing the x-dex add. Eric Reile CIC > I think that a lot of fairy moves feel much more > paradox than blurry moves. > Shouldn't there be a paradox add for moves like > fairy op torque, fairy op > drifter, fairy op blender, ect. After all there is > one hell of a hip pivot > in there. > Jim Penske From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 14 09:07:59 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA08420 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:07:59 -0800 Received: from mta1-3.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-44.outblaze.com [205.158.62.44]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA03863 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 06:59:18 -0800 From: Matt Stroman Received: from ws1-8.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-59.outblaze.com [205.158.62.59]) by mta1-3.us4.outblaze.com (8.11.6/8.11.6-srs) with SMTP id g1EExIU01397 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:59:18 GMT Received: (qmail 29141 invoked by uid 1001); 14 Feb 2002 14:59:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20020214145918.29140.qmail@mail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [208.209.201.2] by ws1-8.us4.outblaze.com with http for llamarama@mail.com; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:59:17 +0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:59:17 +0800 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circle play and newbies X-Originating-Ip: 208.209.201.2 X-Originating-Server: ws1-8.us4.outblaze.com Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Just wanted to add my thoughts... While me and my friends are hardly "incredible" shredders, we are fairly skilled, and can hold our own as freestylers. We kick in an open part of the school, on a daily basis, and have seriously tried to get other interested in the sport, even holding a school-sponsored tournament a few days ago. However, most newbies are happy just being newbies, and some people have even gone so far as to tell us that we "take the fun out of hacking." Sacrilege. Advanced freestyling isn't really an intuitive thing, at least not at first... there's a whole school of obscure skills you need to learn before you can even land a mirage. It takes dedication that a lot of people just don't want to put in, especially if they just want to kick at lunch or whatever. I guess I'm trying to say, a lot of people just aren't interested in doing anything more than basic kicking, and as much as I'd like them to be more advanced, we should just be happy they're into the sport at all. So freestylers, get out there and make yourself visible; if only one out of ten newbies gets interested in shredding, it makes it all worth it. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Feb 14 19:02:22 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA01207 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:02:22 -0800 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA11165 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:58:17 -0800 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA118022 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:53:24 -0600 Received: from mindspring.com (sig-9-15-19-46.mts.ibm.com [9.15.19.46]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g1EHwD814374 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:58:13 -0500 Message-ID: <3C6BFAEA.DB7FA9F2@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:59:06 -0500 From: Ernest Crvich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] CSS3 transportation tips References: