From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 1 19:56:33 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA25576 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 1 May 2002 19:56:33 -0700 Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA32117 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:45:08 -0700 Received: from 66-214-129-219.glen-dyn.charterpipeline.net ([66.214.129.219] helo=sam) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 172jB5-00036g-00; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:45:07 -0700 Message-ID: <002301c1efe8$993dcd60$db81d642@charterpipeline.com> From: "Sam Colclough" To: "Greg Nelson" , References: <16311-3CCC8553-2363@storefull-2198.public.lawson.webtv.net> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Ducking the issue Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:44:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Diving oposite is already called zulu. Ducking same side is weaving so I hear. -samurai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nelson" To: Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 4:27 PM Subject: [freestyle] Ducking the issue > Hey freestyle list! > > I just wanted to pass along some terminology on ducks thought up by Adam > Keith. Enjoy! > gf > > Ducking: Opposite side duck. (e.g. right side of the body > duck from > right to left > left side of the body). Over the neck only. > > Dodging: Same side duck. (e.g. right side of the body > duck from left > to > right > right side of the body). Under the head then back over the neck. > > Diving: Same side dive. (e.g. right side of the body > duck from right > to > left > right side of the body). Over the neck then back under the head. > > Darting: Opposite side dive. (e.g. right side of the body > duck from > left > to right > left side of the body). Under the head, back over the neck, > then > back under the head. > > This cleans up the old definitions of ducking and diving (meaning that > they are determined regardless of where it is set from, but instead how > it is performed after the bag is in the air). They are in alphabetical > order so they are easier to remember. > > Butterfly example (from clip set): > Ducking Butterfly = Ducking Infinity > Dodging Butterfly = Ducking same Butterfly Diving Butterfly = Diving > same Butterfly Darting Butterfly = Diving Infinity > Double Down combinations: > Ducking Barfly > Darting Barfly = Zulu de Loup > Ducking Paradon > Darting Paradon > Dodging Double Over Down > Diving Double Over Down > Dodging Down Double Down > Diving Down Double Down = Down Diver > From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 1 19:55:43 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA25512 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 1 May 2002 19:55:43 -0700 Received: from herald.cc.purdue.edu (herald.cc.purdue.edu [128.210.11.29]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA31756 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:37:51 -0700 Received: from rewind (dsl-237-a.resnet.purdue.edu [128.211.174.194]) by herald.cc.purdue.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/herald) with ESMTP id g411ba1Y029815 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 20:37:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Mike Williams" To: Subject: [freestyle] Shredding in Bay Harbor, MI Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 20:43:23 -0500 Message-ID: <001901c1f0b1$94adf2b0$c2aed380@rewind> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey List, I'm going to be in the Bay Harbor/Petoskey area of MI this summer. Anyone from around there? Searching for someone to kick with. Reply privately, Mike Williams mpwilliams@purdue.edu From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 1 19:59:20 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA25801 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 1 May 2002 19:59:20 -0700 Received: from mail6.bigmailbox.com (mail6.bigmailbox.com [209.132.220.37]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA32340 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:48:20 -0700 Received: (from www@localhost) by mail6.bigmailbox.com (8.11.6/8.10.0) id g410mpA32312; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:48:51 -0700 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:48:51 -0700 Message-Id: <200205010048.g410mpA32312@mail6.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [24.128.13.123] From: Neil Bornstein To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Hitting things from a pincher Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org So far I've got rolling down to heel, shooting it out, dropping to a jester, kicking the pinchering shin with the opposite leg, and crossing your foot in front of you to let it roll down your calf, and off to an opposite toe jester. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 1 20:03:50 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA26060 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 1 May 2002 20:03:50 -0700 Received: from web20905.mail.yahoo.com (web20905.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.227]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id TAA01530 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:13:56 -0700 Message-ID: <20020501021356.22521.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.108.212.128] by web20905.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:13:56 PDT Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:13:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Nodi Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok, well, I'll start off by saying that I'm not all that great, so I haven't really had the chance to "hang with the big boys" much, but I think I know enough about this to say something. I think that when you are in a hacky sack circle, then it's pretty much ok to go on for a few times. And in a freestyle circle, you SHOULD do less, because, a lot of times, its not the "etiquette" of playing that gets you, but having the eyes on you also. If it's a big trick, and you have never seen it before, then maybe just one time you can try to fool around, but if you still "wanna get better" then practice on your own time, too. Repeating the same thing over and over is redundant, because, if you are still "playing the joke" then you know you're not gonna land it. All the staring eyes on you are expecting you to land it after a few tries, or stop hoggin. yep mike From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 1 20:05:10 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA26153 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 1 May 2002 20:05:10 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f64.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.64]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA04703 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:58:41 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:58:41 -0700 Received: from 24.205.247.98 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 01 May 2002 02:58:41 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.205.247.98] From: "Jonathan Wilson" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Advice on dexterities? Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:58:41 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2002 02:58:41.0618 (UTC) FILETIME=[198B9320:01C1F0BC] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I need some advice on doing dexterities. Right now I can't even get an Around the World. But on the tips there, it says it won't help with dexterities. Right now I'm trying to do a trick I saw on the list, but can't remember the name. I'll try to remember the notation for it. clip > same (dex) in > op toe. I think the notation is right, but if not I think you get what the trick is anyway. So can anybody help me out? From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 1 20:07:11 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA26275 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 1 May 2002 20:07:11 -0700 Received: from tig-msxproto1.tig.mizzou.edu (tig-msxproto1.tig.mizzou.edu [128.206.7.41]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA10566 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 22:16:28 -0700 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Would like some freestyle tips Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 00:13:39 -0500 Message-ID: <1E68BBF368521A498EA50DEDB61120900492AF65@tiger-mail02.mizzou.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [freestyle] Would like some freestyle tips Thread-Index: AcHwzvxQTLDxCuC+QvGUf0JMOqVy4g== From: "Senger, Steven Michael" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by llic.net id WAA10566 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'd definitely like a few freestyle pointers too. I've been kicking off and on for a few years now and I still can't hit anything harder than a few basic stalls. Any excersizes or practice/warmup routines would be a great help as well. I'm from Missouri, so there's not just a whole lot of serious kicking around here. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! -steven From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 1 20:09:43 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA26470 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 1 May 2002 20:09:43 -0700 Received: from web20607.mail.yahoo.com (web20607.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.165]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id XAA12346 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:12:24 -0700 Message-ID: <20020501061223.46616.qmail@web20607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.62.153.17] by web20607.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:12:23 PDT Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:12:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Dat Phan Subject: [freestyle] Rod Laver sale To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just noticed lavers are now going for only 48.95 + 6 bucks shipping at footmart at worldfootbag.com. Seems like a good time to replace my smelly old lavers. Dat From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 1 20:10:21 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA26543 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 1 May 2002 20:10:21 -0700 Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA14896 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 01:07:01 -0700 Received: from attbi.com ([12.239.81.29]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020501080701.KNTR9799.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@attbi.com>; Wed, 1 May 2002 08:07:01 +0000 Message-ID: <3CCFA299.CCDC881A@attbi.com> Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 03:08:57 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Burn Childs CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Name for this move? References: <20020427015547.ODSF8969.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@burn-a> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Burn Childs wrote: > > i was wondering what this was called? > > toe > same in > no plant while op out > same toe It is a pixie legover. The "no plant while" part of the move doesn't change it, so you don't really need to put it in the notation - unless you want to emphasize the stylistic difference. Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 1 20:11:22 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA26645 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 1 May 2002 20:11:22 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f248.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.248]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA03545 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 08:05:55 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 May 2002 08:04:49 -0700 Received: from 209.115.237.234 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 01 May 2002 15:04:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.115.237.234] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: GFSmoothie@webtv.net, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Ducking the issue Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 09:04:49 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2002 15:04:49.0726 (UTC) FILETIME=[8A2945E0:01C1F121] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >I just wanted to pass along some terminology on ducks thought up by Adam >Keith. Enjoy! >gf Hey all. I agree that we need four different definitions, but I've heard different ones. Ducking, Diving, Weaving, and Zulu are the four I've heard of. Ducking is just a duck under the bag. Diving is a dive over the bag, then a duck under the bag. Weaving is a duck under the bag, then a dive over the bag. Zulu is a dive over the bag, a duck under the bag, then another dive over the bag. Far as I can tell, Weaving and Zulu are the same idea as dodging and Darting, but I've never heard of dodging and Darting. That's what I know. Ie: ripped warrior (Stepping Ducking butterfly, Step>Duck>Op Butter) Jacknife (Stepping Diving Butterfly, Step>Dive>Same Butter) Zulu Warrior (Stepping Zulu Butterfly, Step>Dive>Op Butter) Weaving Butterfly (Ducking Same butterfly, Duck>Same Butter) Which system do most people use? Dylan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 1 20:12:22 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA26749 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 1 May 2002 20:12:22 -0700 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA21786 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 19:03:51 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #39412) id <0GVG07301JIT2N@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 01 May 2002 18:18:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GVG071GSJITXV@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 01 May 2002 18:18:29 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 17:59:05 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Hitting things from a pincher To: freestyle Message-id: <3CC6A569@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From Neil Bornstein ===== >And I'm looking for new ways to get out of a pincher stall, so far I have four.... any suggestions? Well it wouldn't have helped if you listed the four so as to eliminate repeats, but here's a list of ones' I've done in the past. I've listed them under the assumption that there is a dex involved from the set. Whether or not their actually is...I don't know. ATW Double ATW Butterfly Drifter Smear Torque DLO From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 1 20:13:34 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA26848 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 1 May 2002 20:13:34 -0700 Received: from m22.boston.juno.com (m22.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.85]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA24632 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 19:43:12 -0700 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"stHo5BQddtEjcrVLw9PkWzwx92FMpDtKGZ2e9HAZla5JRcPi3Cj/gw=="> Received: (from flutefreak7@juno.com) by m22.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GZR7XZSX; Wed, 01 May 2002 22:42:09 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 22:40:25 -0400 Subject: [freestyle] Novice, Intermediate, Open? Message-ID: <20020501.224026.4808.0.flutefreak7@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-11 From: Brett N Ables Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I was just wondering if someone could give me an idea of where the fuzzy line is drawn between the different ability categories: novice, intermediate and open. I'm particularly interested in the distinction between novice and intermediate. What kind of freestyle moves? What are some average consecutive numbers people in the different categories get? For one thing I'm very curious about the sport (keyword being "sport" rather than game), and second I want to see where I would fit into the big scheme of things out in the footbag world. Thanks! Brett Ables "Bables" Pain is temporary. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 1 20:41:31 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA29018 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 1 May 2002 20:41:31 -0700 Received: from I (dhcp212.llic.net [209.125.90.212]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA29015 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 20:41:31 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020501.224026.4808.0.flutefreak7@juno.com> References: <20020501.224026.4808.0.flutefreak7@juno.com> Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 20:41:28 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Novice, Intermediate, Open? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Novice = neved played or competed before. Intermediate = actually in the process of learning and want to get experience Open = established player, wishes to compete against top players. We almost *never* offer "novice freestyle" competition. There'd really be no point. It'd just be a bunch of people wasting their time watching some kids kick a few times and drop. :-) The level you choose to compete at is in your mind, not in the mind of others. If you want to compete against the top players in the world, you go "open". If you want to compete against other people who are still learning and who are in the same boat of not yet wanting to see how they will do relative to Carol or Ryan, but are more interested in just getting some experience competing, then you go "intermediate". Steve At 10:40 PM -0400 5/1/02, Brett N Ables wrote: >Hey, I was just wondering if someone could give me an idea of where the >fuzzy line is drawn between the different ability categories: novice, >intermediate and open. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 2 06:47:03 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA18847 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 2 May 2002 06:47:03 -0700 Received: from itsa.ucsf.edu (itsa.ucsf.edu [128.218.95.21]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA31398 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 21:20:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (sjani@localhost) by itsa.ucsf.edu (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA101672 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 21:20:53 -0700 Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 21:20:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "Sunil S. Jani" To: freestyle list Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette In-Reply-To: <20020501021356.22521.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Footbag Fiends: I find this thread repulsive. I can hear the Enforcer retching from across the country. Back in the day, before my time, I have heard that Shults would break your shin if he ever saw you self toss. It is simple as this... NO SELF SERVING in public or at tournaments... PERIOD. What you do on your own time or own turf is your own business. However, when you are at an event or are out and about, there should be a higher standard since you not only represent yourself, but the sport of footbag. I am not saying that anyone is perfect or that I have never self served, but it really should be as clean and simple as this... just don't do it. Its crap. Crap. Crap. Trash. We shred in a circle... the less we all self toss... the faster the bag will come around again. -Sunil S. Jani On Tue, 30 Apr 2002, Mike Nodi wrote: > Ok, well, I'll start off by saying that I'm not all that > great, so I haven't really had the chance to "hang with > the big boys" much, but I think I know enough about > this to say something. I think that when you are in a > hacky sack circle, then it's pretty much ok to go on > for a few times. And in a freestyle circle, you SHOULD > do less, because, a lot of times, its not the > "etiquette" of playing that gets you, but having the > eyes on you also. If it's a big trick, and you have > never seen it before, then maybe just one time you can > try to fool around, but if you still "wanna get > better" then practice on your own time, too. Repeating > the same thing over and over is redundant, because, if > you are still "playing the joke" then you know you're > not gonna land it. All the staring eyes on you are > expecting you to land it after a few tries, or stop > hoggin. yep > > mike > From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 2 06:53:49 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA19448 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 2 May 2002 06:53:49 -0700 Received: from safeaccess.com (joseph.safeaccess.com [209.145.202.2]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA02186 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 22:23:27 -0700 Received: from toppers [209.145.194.8] by safeaccess.com (SMTPD32-7.07) id AED1402700CA; Wed, 01 May 2002 22:29:53 -0700 Message-ID: <009401c1f199$9189c4e0$0100a8c0@toppers> From: Kit Topper To: References: <3CC6A569@webmail> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Hitting things from a pincher Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 22:24:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > >===== Original Message From Neil Bornstein ===== > >And I'm looking for new ways to get out of a pincher stall, so far I have > four.... any suggestions? And then Brad Kaplan stated: > Well it wouldn't have helped if you listed the four so as to eliminate > repeats, but here's a list of ones' I've done in the past. > I've listed them under the assumption that there is a dex involved from > the set. Whether or not their actually is...I don't know. > > ATW > Double ATW > Butterfly > Drifter > Smear > Torque > DLO I would disagree with the idea of counting dexterity for the pinching set. Does anybody know the "official" guideline for this? However, if you ARE getting a dexterity from the pincher set, I'm assuming it's a pixie style (same in) dex. In which case I don't think it's actually a Torque to go pinch > op osis, because a pixie osis isn't a torque either... it has to be set from the opposite leg, otherwise there's really no "torquing" involved. So it should be called pinch osis. And the same would go for the DLO; that's really a pinch leg over. Correct? Kit From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 2 06:54:36 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA19525 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 2 May 2002 06:54:36 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f132.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.132]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA05322 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 23:52:15 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 May 2002 23:52:15 -0700 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 02 May 2002 06:52:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: csallog@mail.uti.hu, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 23:52:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 May 2002 06:52:15.0558 (UTC) FILETIME=[E4EADE60:01C1F1A5] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Gergo Csallo >a brave Intermediate player :) "respect all players..." at any skill level..and respect non players too..remember it's supposed to be FUN.. :-) I think that the newer players should get to play for around the same amount of time as a pro..or guiltless run level player.. I agree with you..also remember..and this is to all, that it is "freestyle' not Rule style....that's for the mat when you are up competing..the rest is up to each circle as it plays...just keep in mind that everyone must stay 'warm' and as he said.."be respectful'... nuf said I think.. and enjoy it as you let others enjoy it too... Jubal Hume From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 2 06:55:12 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA19629 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 2 May 2002 06:55:12 -0700 Received: from bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com (bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com [205.145.1.251]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA17521 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 06:21:15 -0700 Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 2 May 2002 09:19:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA880445646D@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Riefer, Robert" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:18:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm not sure where the confusion on etiquette started. In my opinion, self serves are not ok unless: 1) You're playing by yourself. OR 2) You're playing with your practice partner(s) and you have all agreed that during *practice* self serves are OK. Even in this instance abuse of self serve really sucks -- playing partners may be too nice to "call" you on your ball hogging. OR 3) You're about to pass it on, and the next player in the circle says "Keep it.. try again". In any other situation, pass it on when (preferably before) you drop it. A lot of times if you dropped it right away the next player will give a courtesy pass back (although this is by no means required). If you drop it on the very first trick every single time, you just need to put some more time in practicing on your own. I'm pretty sure this is how it's always been and I think this is how it should continue to be. Bob Riefer Philly Footworks From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 2 14:41:36 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA20419 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 2 May 2002 14:41:36 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f228.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.228]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA05043 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 11:25:01 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 May 2002 11:24:55 -0700 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 02 May 2002 18:24:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 11:24:55 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 May 2002 18:24:55.0848 (UTC) FILETIME=[A8C7DA80:01C1F206] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org this was said.... >From: "Riefer, Robert" >To: freestyle@footbag.org >I'm not sure where the confusion on etiquette started. In my opinion, >self>serves are not ok unless:>1) You're playing by yourself.>OR>2) You're >playing with your practice partner(s) and you have all agreed that>during >*practice* self serves are OK. Even in this instance abuse of self>serve >really sucks -- playing partners may be too nice to "call" you on your>ball >hogging.>OR>3) You're about to pass it on, and the next player in the >circle says "Keep>it.. try again".>In any other situation, pass it on when >(preferably before) you drop it. A>lot of times if you dropped it right >away the next player will give a>courtesy pass back (although this is by no >means required). If you drop it>on the very first trick every single time, >you just need to put some more>time in practicing on your own. I'm pretty >sure this is how it's always>been and I think this is how it should >continue to be. My comments on it all... Well all..it seems to me that there is altogether too much talk on etiquette and circle play..LOL.. I think that if 10% of this energy went to promoting the game..then it would be much more well known and ..fun..but how will it ever work when people can't just have a blast playing for fun?..I mean, who wants to play a game where the first thing you hear is.."you can't do this.." or " you have to pass now"..because I won't give you the courtesy of waiting a few seconds".. Now don't get me wrong all..I get annoyed too when some people don't pass it on when they should..but is that not what we all need to work on? acceptance? and understanding?..the world is a big place and there are many people in it..so it's up to us..the cutting edge of this brand new activity, to dispel the old ways and attitudes...to prove that this sport/art is a step in the right direction..that we as people Evolve from being Involved with it..so if we can't just do it..then there really is a problem.. I suggest that if you want to play with rulz..then do so..but try to be accepting of everyone's manner of play..watch and learn...the Pros too!.. I have leaned from newbie's..as they learn from me..so..Just play the game/art and all is good..Do not get SO absorbed in the rulz that you forget why you started playing in the first place...Remember?..way back when?..It was Fun..and it still is fun because of its structure and it's lack of structure at the same time.. well nuf said..peace and kicks fer all who are not out with injuries ..lol.. ciao and.. play nice kids! Jubal Hume [oh ya..be careful too..some moves are just not worth it..:-( ] From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 2 14:43:00 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA20522 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 2 May 2002 14:43:00 -0700 Received: from pd3mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (h24-71-223-10.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA17633 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 14:01:37 -0700 Received: from pd4mr4so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr4so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.215]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GVI00DK61S87I@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Thu, 02 May 2002 13:50:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml1so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml1so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.145]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GVI00CG61S82W@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Thu, 02 May 2002 13:50:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from k1 (h24-70-219-33.gv.shawcable.net [24.70.219.33]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with SMTP id <0GVI008UY1S8MP@l-daemon> for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Thu, 02 May 2002 13:50:32 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 12:50:04 -0700 From: Allan Haggett Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Message-id: <003501c1f212$8e01f2b0$21db4618@k1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Self serving sucks. Self serving takes the fun out of the game. Self serving is disrespectful to everyone in the circle including yourself. You shouldn't self serve even if you're playing by yourself ;.) Every game has rules. Rules can make things more fun for everyone participating by ensuring that everyone gets a fair try, every try. If you are paying attention, then you know that when person A just had a 30 second shred and person B gets that bag, kicks it twice, drops it, picks it up and passes it to you, that you really should pass the bag back to person B. You do this knowing that if they botch again, then they will pass it right back to you. If you get the bag and you botch out, you can all but presume that when you pass it immediately, that the next person will be with it enough to give you a second chance. I only like playing 'no second chances' when it applies to everyone. I believe the act of passing the bag is a symbolic gesture of respect to the nature of the game. Do you think shredding is an entirely indiviual endeavour? The only time I stop passing back this is when that person continuily self serves. "Anarchy" has no place in any level's circle. This applies to hack slack circles and shred circles alike. Hello, my name is Allan............ and... I.. am a Self server. Allan Haggett President, Self-Server's Anonymous (14 months sober) From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 15:00:39 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA03104 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:00:39 -0700 Received: from hotlunch (aoh1545ey409k.bc.hsia.telus.net [66.183.56.238]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA30341 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 16:26:46 -0700 Received: from sabetts by hotlunch with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 173Q3B-00007o-00 for ; Thu, 02 May 2002 16:31:49 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Would like some freestyle tips References: <1E68BBF368521A498EA50DEDB61120900492AF65@tiger-mail02.mizzou.edu> From: Shawn Betts Date: 02 May 2002 16:31:48 -0700 In-Reply-To: <1E68BBF368521A498EA50DEDB61120900492AF65@tiger-mail02.mizzou.edu> Message-ID: <87d6we6s9n.fsf@foo.foo> Lines: 44 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "Senger, Steven Michael" writes: > I'd definitely like a few freestyle pointers too. I've been kicking > off and on for a few years now and I still can't hit anything harder > than a few basic stalls. Any excersizes or practice/warmup routines > would be a great help as well. I'm from Missouri, so there's not just > a whole lot of serious kicking around here. Any help would be greatly > appreciated. Thanks! School harder! :) I found the most effective way to become more consistent with basic moves was to school them over and over and over again. I repeated these moves everyday: inside -> op inside toe -> op toe clipper -> op clipper (This was really difficult for a long time) around the world both ways then repeat on the opposite side. clipper -> clipper -> clipper -> op clipper -> op clipper -> op clipper -> ... mirage -> op toe -> mirage -> ... I got my clippers solid by walking home from work (~30 blocks) and at the end of each block I'd try to land clippers until I'd landed one on both sides. After about three days or so I could get home in a reasonable amount of time :). This was last summer in Vancouver, BC when the buses were on strike so I was more motivated to walk home. I find with the public transit cuts happening here I get more time shred while I'm waiting for the bus. Some days this is my only chance to shred all day! So that's what I did. Always take your bag everywhere you go and at every possible moment try to land a trick. And remember: taking public transit not only reduces traffic jams and greenhouse gases, it also improves your footbag skill! -- Shawn From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 15:00:11 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA03078 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:00:11 -0700 Received: from rains.umail.ucsb.edu (rains.umail.ucsb.edu [128.111.151.216]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA29352 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 16:15:08 -0700 Received: from http by rains.umail.ucsb.edu with local (Exim 3.35 #2) id 173Pn1-000AxX-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 02 May 2002 16:15:07 -0700 Received: from 128.111.182.30 ( [128.111.182.30]) as user hackman@incoming.umail.ucsb.edu by webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu with HTTP; Thu, 2 May 2002 16:15:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1020381307.3cd1c87b6e1a3@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:15:07 -0700 From: Jeremy Mirken To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Am I talented? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1-cvs Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org So, I figured i'd bore you with an interesting story. Tonight at 8:30 pm pacific time, (hopefully you will all receive this before then) I shall compete in the annual campus-wide UCSB talent show. I shall do a 2 minute routine to a techno version of "pac-man." I've been thinking about it a lot although I just began to plan out my "routine" a few minutes ago. I could attempt tons of threes fours and fives and just blow the judges away with legs as fast as the blades of a blender, but do they really wanna see that? I don't think so. It seems that as of now, the plan is to start with kicks, basic stalls next, such a inside to inside, outside, sole, wraps and walkovers. Then I'll progress to clippers, both sides, alternating, and then to butterflies. If I can make it that far without a drop, which I should be able to do since I am nearly guiltless, then I'm gunna take it to the next level, Dan Klokow style, and shred my ass off. what do you guys think of that? It really isn't worth the drops to attempt to impress a panel of judges who dont know a pixie from a ripwalk, or a wrap from a barroque. Hmm. . . .and so I shall sink to the level of dumbing down my routine to impress some peeps who dont know anything. Oh, well, someday maybe all viewers will be able to discriminate between 4 and 5 add moves. Ha, i wish. Jeremy Mirken, Santa Barbara's only shredder -- Jeremy Mirken hackman@umail.ucsb.edu From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 15:01:21 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA03159 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:01:21 -0700 Received: from mailout5.nyroc.rr.com (mailout5-1.nyroc.rr.com [24.92.226.169]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA13422 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 19:51:42 -0700 Received: from 1sgpz01 (syr-66-24-59-181.twcny.rr.com [66.24.59.181]) by mailout5.nyroc.rr.com (8.11.6/Road Runner 1.12) with SMTP id g432pYO10448 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 22:51:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004101c1f24d$b07efb40$b53b1842@twcny.rr.com> From: "Tyler Linscot" To: Subject: [freestyle] Mirage help Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 22:53:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey shreders, I've got clippers, legovers and around the worlds skooled and can even nail butterflys but I'm having a hard time with clipper set mirages. Any help?????? From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 15:03:40 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA03302 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:03:40 -0700 Received: from bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com (bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com [205.145.1.251]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA08392 for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 06:27:43 -0700 Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 3 May 2002 09:26:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88044564A7@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Riefer, Robert" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 09:24:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org First.. Oh my goodness. This is just crazy. See below. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jubal Hume [mailto:soleairpro@hotmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:25 PM > To: freestyle@footbag.org > Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette > > I think that if 10% of this > energy went to > promoting the game..then it would be much more well known and > ..fun.. Oh c'mon. Gimme a break. I don't know about everyone else, but I type pretty damn fast. I don't think I could get much promoting done in the 2 minutes it took me to write my last email. Anyone disagree on that? Besides, I am able to spend time promoting *and* debating the state of the game (I imagine other players are talented enough to pull this off as well). Self serving sucks. It's as simple as that. Self serving is becoming rampant with newer (and veteran) players. This deserves conversation. That's what this list is for. > but how > will it ever work when people can't just have a blast playing > for fun?.. This is my point. It's not fun to watch someone self serve over and over. I like circle play s much to show what I can do, as to see what others can do. If you want to toss it to yourself repeatedly, go play by yourself. If you want to play with other people, pass the ball to them. It's a simple sharing concept. It simply the way the sport was created. It's cooperation and camaraderie. Ask the creator of the sport how he feels about sharing the ball. Ask any of the originals how they feel about it. Anyone want to setup a poll on this? (just joking about the poll) > I > mean, who wants to play a game where the first thing you hear > is.."you can't > do this.." or " you have to pass now"..because I won't give you the > courtesy of waiting a few seconds".. Sigh. This is just silly. Every darned game that was ever invented has some rules. I'll just stop there. > I get annoyed too when some > people don't pass it > on when they should..but is that not what we all need to work on? > acceptance? and understanding?..the world is a big place and > there are many > people in it.. Geez. We're talking about footbag circle play here. I don't think anyone (I certainly didn't) intended to move on to world peace. I think we're just trying to educate the newbies (and misguided vets) out there that seem to think self serving is generally an OK thing to do. When I tell newbies that self serving is not ok, they act surprised. They didn't know about this rule (oddly enough). They're not upset about it usually.. They just deal. Thanks. Bob Riefer Philly Footworks From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 15:04:32 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA03330 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:04:32 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f77.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.77]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA20579 for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 09:25:43 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 May 2002 09:24:34 -0700 Received: from 209.115.237.234 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 03 May 2002 16:24:33 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.115.237.234] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 10:24:33 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 May 2002 16:24:34.0009 (UTC) FILETIME=[02A46C90:01C1F2BF] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I thought I should say something on this thread. First off, I can't hit very many combos. I think my biggest 2-up combo was 10 consecutives or something, but usually it's a lot lower. I enjoy hitting big moves too, but I usually miss them, and it sucks to lose my turn after this, but I find that usually people will pass the bag back and let me try again. But is it really necessary to go through the "tradition" of passing the bag, only to have it passed back? After all, if someone hits a 30 second combo, then I miss my second move cuz my leg wiggles, the next guy will "probably" pass it back to me. Why pass the bag? I think that, since the "shred" of competition play is usually 30-35 seconds, this is roughly how long a freestyler in a circle should get the bag, before passing it on. What this means, is that if I'm playing with Ahren Gehrman, it would suck to bust my ten second combo only to be followed by a 3 minute Beast-fest by him, but it wouldn't suck as bad for him to sit through two 15 second combos from me, I'd expect. Not to say that Ahren would shred this way, I haven't shredded with him before. It would be better if a BAP player (if they're playing with newbies) to pass the bag after a nice combo, since most can easily go guiltless for about 30 seconds. Of course, if four BAP players are playing together, self serves are pointless. The players should be trying hard to hit big moves without dropping the bag, and if they do, they should pass it on. At this level, learning this way is a lot more fun that learning this way as a newbie. My 2 cents, Dylan Livingston From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 15:05:46 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA03446 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:05:46 -0700 Received: from animejunction.com ([64.157.3.130]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id KAA23048 for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 10:02:58 -0700 Received: (qmail 3280 invoked by uid 65534); 3 May 2002 17:03:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20020503170327.3279.qmail@animejunction.com> Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 17:03:27 +0000 From: "Peter Bevitori" Subject: [freestyle] Rooted toe clipper set moves To: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: maddogbayleaf@nervhq.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by llic.net id KAA23048 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org That might not be the name for what im talking about, but I just started working on this set, i.e. set the bag on your right toe, bring your left leg over your right and keep it in the air, jump hard off the right foot with the bag on it and throw it up. I've got a handfull of moves after this set, and I was wondering if there was a name for the set, and/or if there are names for any moves off of this set. Thanks bro's. laters, peter bevitori From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 15:07:02 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA03594 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:07:02 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f102.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.102]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA28798 for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 17:58:35 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 May 2002 17:57:31 -0700 Received: from 65.69.222.95 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 04 May 2002 00:57:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.69.222.95] From: "Ryan M. Hodgson" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 19:57:31 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 May 2002 00:57:31.0661 (UTC) FILETIME=[AB8D6BD0:01C1F306] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I got a question: what is the problem with self serving? You guys make it seem like you will die if you self serve ( not trying to be disrespectful). I was just wondering what is wrong with it because I get about 5 emails a day about self serving. Ryan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 15:07:40 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA03642 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:07:40 -0700 Received: from sccmmhc02.mchsi.com (sccmmhc02.mchsi.com [204.127.203.184]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA04984 for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 21:31:38 -0700 Received: from mmueller ([12.217.240.36]) by sccmmhc02.mchsi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020504043124.BGEH24267.sccmmhc02.mchsi.com@mmueller> for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 04:31:24 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c1f324$aaacad20$9fe9b00a@publichealth.uiowa.edu> From: "Matt Mueller" To: Subject: [freestyle] Lavermillenium2 Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 23:32:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Anyone looking for this shoe? then look no further than yonder http://www.shoes.com/product.asp?p=5000758%7E From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 15:09:24 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA03796 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:09:24 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f77.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.77]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA07514 for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 22:17:02 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 May 2002 22:17:02 -0700 Received: from 68.42.129.38 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 04 May 2002 05:17:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.42.129.38] From: "Thomas Boutorwick" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Advice on dexterities? Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 01:17:02 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 May 2002 05:17:02.0141 (UTC) FILETIME=[EC481ED0:01C1F32A] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all! To J. Wilson, The move you are referring to -clip>same in(dex)> op toe- is a paradox mirage. I have recently schooled them, and the best thing to remember is that it is all in your hips. You really have to rotate at the waist to comlete the dex and remain balanced. Good luck. TJ Boutorwick From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 15:09:56 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA03850 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:09:56 -0700 Received: from web14701.mail.yahoo.com (web14701.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.118]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id RAA20194 for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 17:21:11 -0700 Message-ID: <20020505002107.24104.qmail@web14701.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.228.67.47] by web14701.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 04 May 2002 17:21:07 PDT Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 17:21:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Graham Subject: [freestyle] Circling the footbag twice To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, I've been footbagging for about a year, and I think that I'm finally ready to start working on 3-add tricks. It seems that most all 3-add tricks involve circling the footbag twice. I don't have the speed to circle it twice, I can only get about 1 and 1/2 times around it. Do any of you have any suggestions of what exercises I could perform to help me develop enough speed to be able to circle it twice? Thank you for your time, Alan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 15:10:53 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA03932 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:10:53 -0700 Received: from web14706.mail.yahoo.com (web14706.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.123]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id RAA20388 for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 17:25:57 -0700 Message-ID: <20020505002557.40230.qmail@web14706.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.228.67.47] by web14706.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 04 May 2002 17:25:57 PDT Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 17:25:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Graham Subject: [freestyle] Personal Records To: freestyle@list.footbag.org In-Reply-To: <003501c1f212$8e01f2b0$21db4618@k1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org How many kicks have you had without dropping the footbag? I'm almost ashamed to admit my record (considering every one elses are probably three times longer), but my record is 243 (I've only been footbagging for a year). From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 15:11:29 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA03993 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:11:29 -0700 Received: from web20102.mail.yahoo.com (web20102.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.39]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id TAA26944 for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 19:32:46 -0700 Message-ID: <20020505023242.83979.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.148.17.137] by web20102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 04 May 2002 19:32:42 PDT Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 19:32:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Reile Subject: Re: [freestyle] More stuff to hit To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all ya'll, Mikko Tapaninaho said: > There are already too many names for tricks (try to > remember > them all) and new players are suggesting cooler > names > for old tricks... Please, just play the game, don´t > chance the name... I know this reply is a little late, I haven't been up on my mail lately, but I thik this is a very relavant topic. I always thought that to get the right to name a move you needed to be the first or one of the first to hit it. I know there weren't any specific rules to it, but it seemed like it was generally understood. Now it seems like anyone can name any move no matter how many hundreds of people might have hit before. And I can understand naming an old move that has a long technical name, but most of the new names got included in mass renamings of certain sets. Worse even than that is renaming moves that have already been named by someone else. Anyway, don't get me wrong, I am all for naming moves, I just think it should be reserved for NEW moves, or if not, at least discussed first with the rest of the list. Now gyro dlo is called "whale tail" and every unnamed fairy set move got equally enigmatic names. I've seen atomic dlo called atomic dog, predator, cataclysm, and cataract. Which is it? Yacine named fairy eggbeater "flic" a while back, but now i see it listed as "orangutan." And didn't Ken name Alpine Blurriest "Leviathon"? Now it's twice as long, called "Cristina Aguilara." By worlds 2002 we'll all be speaking different languages. Let me know what your opinions on all this bid'ness are. Eric Reile CIC From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 15:12:30 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA04095 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:12:30 -0700 Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA29414 for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 19:52:03 -0700 From: Andrew Coleman Received: from CrazyHackier@cs.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id z.172.7d2495c (24895) for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 22:51:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <172.7d2495c.2a0749c1@cs.com> Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 22:51:45 EDT Subject: [freestyle] What Cinco De Mayo meant to me To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 122 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by llic.net id TAA29414 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Great bags, great people, great times. This past weekends Cinco De Mayo Footbag Fest was one of the funnest times in my life. There were so many people there, it is great to see footbag taking off in the southeast. Everybody was busting big and having a great time. To everybody who was there-great to see you. To everyone who wasn't-you missed out. Massive thank you to Ben Scarborough for putting the whole thing together-Ben, you rule man. It was so,so incredibly awesome. Happy Cinco De Mayo everyone! -Andrew Coleman difficulty is in the foÖt of the beholder From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 15:13:34 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA04213 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:13:34 -0700 Received: from ecsmtp01.rockwellfirstpoint.com ([199.191.58.7]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id HAA23841 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 07:58:07 -0700 From: Dan Klokow Subject: [freestyle] Demos To: freestyle@footbag.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.7 March 21, 2001 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 09:58:04 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on ECSMTP01/EC/Rockwell(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 05/06/2002 09:54:57 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What's up everyone, I jus wanted to post in and thank all the other video makers out there, and also Steve G. and all who provide the web stuff for everyone. Brian Parsons and I recently were part of a Wellness day at a local nearby High School where we got to Demo Footbag for all the lil kiddies out there. We were given a vcr and tv to show videos, and a sweet size area to show off some skills. I played Agressive Grounds, Overground, Lion's Den, Whirled Shred and Just Shred, and The Next Level almost all them twice through. I also got to hand out our footbag.org cards to many interested kids, so don't be surprised if you guys get some orders :) I saw lots of promising skills from everyone.. from their very first toe stalls to clippers and butterflies. We were given 'footbag freestyle' stickers to hand out to kids to show that they were at our table and got credit for being there, but we didnt jus hand them out we made them earn it.. everyone had to hit one toe stall before they got a sticker, Brian wanted to have them do both sides but i thought one was good enough:) Too bad i had 9 mestas bags stolen from me during the course of the day, but if they are put to good use then thats all that matters. All in all it was a great experience, and if you ever get the chance to do a skool Demo.. DO IT!! They are loads of fun! Brian and i shredded literaly till we could not shred any longer, and tons of good stuff was hit.. but i'll save that for the next vid:) Jus wanted to again say thanks to all who support this awesome sport. Hope to be able to see everyone at World's if i can make it. Peace Dan Klokow Chicago Inner Circle From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 15:16:35 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA04571 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:16:35 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f306.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.181]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA10590 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 12:35:29 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 6 May 2002 12:33:26 -0700 Received: from 24.64.223.204 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 06 May 2002 19:33:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.64.223.204] From: "Jubal Hume" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 12:33:26 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 May 2002 19:33:26.0665 (UTC) FILETIME=[E4ABBF90:01C1F534] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all who seemed to get confused from my last post... And I think That to start this off, I must say..No offence intended in any way..but.I must add with total respect Well let me simplify it all for those who seemed confused..... I do not have to "like" it when a person in a circle doesn't pass as "I" think he/she should...but I think that a mental state of acceptance of others is far more important than Just my personal opinion[s] or of footbag at all!...I do try to live up to this as best I can, I do not always succeed, but I still try. and the next part is about the "way back when" aspect of my last post... True, some of the people who read this did get to play with the "enforcer' and "rippen" WAY BACK WHEN...but most did not...I played footbag for 8 years before I ever had the privilege to play with Kenny or anyone...Hell, I could do feeding torques first!..so .. For me, my way back when was a bit different, I played hard, but it was just for fun..not a training session at each kick or jam...[to avoid further confusion..kick was a term for a SHRED SESSION]...Ok..to go on, I started to play because it was FUN, and had no ridged rulz ..other than we try to get it around the circle with out dropping it [IT meaning the footbag]. I personally [after years of martial arts and soccer] found this to be very refreshing and exciting, I had found a new creative outlet and I was happy about it. And so here I am... Now I must say, I realize that I come from a slightly different mindset than you, the reader, may [or may not] so I am willing to agree to disagree, and thus end this thread, or my part in it at least. So let me see...to make this clear I must use a metaphor: Driving a car. Ok so how do we avoid road rage [circle passing rage] we have patience and understanding, we let some people go ahead anyway, even if it IS our turn..it's called "we are all in this together" and so by doing the small things [like letting someone go first] we not only make the circle a bit less stressed [but the roads as well] and this more "fun" type of session will be fun..tried it lately?. I am sure it will attract many newbie's to the artform [or sport if you must call it that]. Now doing small good deeds on the road or in a circle can do nothing bad at all and may perhaps do something GOOD for footbag, road safety, our world, our daily life, so who knows till it gets tried. Mr. Confusion Jubal Hume I hope I am more clear this time around. I would like to hear from anyone who doesn't agree, but please just send a note to me. Why bother the whole list with personal opinions that are about someone else's opinions. This would seem to me to be getting too far away from the point of this list...to talk about footbags many aspects as opposed to other peoples individual opinions. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 17:23:26 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA15671 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 17:23:26 -0700 Received: from web20511.mail.yahoo.com (web20511.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.150]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id PAA07881 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:49:06 -0700 Message-ID: <20020507224906.3806.qmail@web20511.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.226.142.63] by web20511.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 May 2002 15:49:06 PDT Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 15:49:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Caleb Abraham Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > But is it really necessary to go through the > "tradition" of passing the bag, > only to have it passed back? Hmmm, is it really necissary to pass, if it will be passed back? Is it really necissary to kick the bag up if it only will come back down? YES!!!!!! Because it's more fun for all if we share and don't self serve. (if that makes any sense to anyone but me) I remember the last jam I was at, I would say that I knew the sport well by then, but I was skooling at home by myself which made me a self-server. When I unleashed the wretched habit that came my way, Mr. Bob Reifer let out a roar that could have scared my skinny A$$ all the way back home. Haha, well once the paleness went away from my face I began to relize the image I was making of myself, especially to the more advanced kickers I was playing with. The point is, that we all want to show off the best of our ability to the stylers we look up to, but I don't care if you busted the beast 2 inches away from my face. If you had to self-serve twice before doing so it's just not that great to some. If you do like self-serving then great, go do it all you want, but you're never going to please everyone at an event. Too many people are anti-self's to even argue the point in my eyes. Happily back on the anti-selfs team, Caleb From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 17:24:24 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA15744 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 17:24:24 -0700 Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA08258 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:55:41 -0700 Received: from 66-214-129-219.glen-dyn.charterpipeline.net ([66.214.129.219] helo=sam) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175Drx-0007N8-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 07 May 2002 15:55:41 -0700 Message-ID: <002801c1f551$179ce980$db81d642@charterpipeline.com> From: "Sam Colclough" To: References: <1020381307.3cd1c87b6e1a3@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Am I talented? Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 15:55:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jeremy Mirken wrote: > Jeremy Mirken, Santa Barbara's only shredder Wait... I'm Santa Barbara's only shredder! From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 17:25:07 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA15815 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 17:25:07 -0700 Received: from itsa.ucsf.edu (itsa.ucsf.edu [128.218.95.21]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA08537 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 16:01:10 -0700 Received: from localhost (sjani@localhost) by itsa.ucsf.edu (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA169588 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 16:01:06 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:01:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Sunil S. Jani" To: freestyle list Subject: Re: [freestyle] Lavermillenium2 In-Reply-To: <000701c1f324$aaacad20$9fe9b00a@publichealth.uiowa.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers: Thanks for the info, Matt! Here is some other info I dug up... If you enter the promo code LUCKY you get another 20% off of your entire order (until 6/1)... and if you order 3 pairs of shoes they waive the shipping cost ($4.50). Hope this helps someone. Sunil On Fri, 3 May 2002, Matt Mueller wrote: > Anyone looking for this shoe? then look no further than yonder > http://www.shoes.com/product.asp?p=5000758%7E From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 17:25:51 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA15877 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 17:25:51 -0700 Received: from sccmmhc01.mchsi.com (sccmmhc01.mchsi.com [204.127.203.183]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA09272 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 16:09:12 -0700 Received: from mmueller ([12.217.240.36]) by sccmmhc01.mchsi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020507230854.QMUA1219.sccmmhc01.mchsi.com@mmueller>; Tue, 7 May 2002 23:08:54 +0000 Message-ID: <004001c1f61c$31341aa0$9fe9b00a@publichealth.uiowa.edu> From: "Matt" To: "Alan Graham" , References: <20020505002557.40230.qmail@web14706.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Personal Records Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:09:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ooooh, mine is much worse. I only practiced kicking for like 6 months before freestyle (probly a mistake), so my record is like 26 I think. > How many kicks have you had without dropping the > footbag? > I'm almost ashamed to admit my record (considering > every one elses are probably three times longer), but > my record is 243 (I've only been footbagging for a > year). > From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 17:26:39 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA15948 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 17:26:39 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f7.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.7]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA15319 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 17:19:16 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 7 May 2002 17:19:15 -0700 Received: from 172.173.244.172 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 May 2002 00:19:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [172.173.244.172] From: "Stan Sagalovskiy" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 20:19:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2002 00:19:15.0650 (UTC) FILETIME=[FCACF220:01C1F625] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, Though I think this topic has been beaten to death, I'd like to say that in my good ol' days of high school hacky sack you would get pegged HARD (with a sipa) if you self-served. -stan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 18:21:26 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA20826 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:21:26 -0700 Received: from web10006.mail.yahoo.com (web10006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.42]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id RAA16747 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 17:36:45 -0700 Message-ID: <20020508003645.46428.qmail@web10006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.188.200.28] by web10006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 May 2002 17:36:45 PDT Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 17:36:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Frost Subject: Re: [freestyle] Personal Records To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>How many kicks have you had without dropping the footbag?<< My personal record is just over 4,000. >>I'm almost ashamed to admit my record (considering every one elses are probably three times longer), but my record is 243 (I've only been footbagging for a year).<< Alan, MY record would be embarassing to the world record... however... who cares? keep kicking and your record will be 24,300! well, maybe not! :-) the poing is that no matter how good you get there will be someone who can do just a bit more. but that is how you/me learn! always good to hear of new kickers! now, since everyone ends thier letter with some cool saying, let me try: "boom shak a laka and Jesse Jackson likes to swim". Jason Frost ===== Jason Frost jdiabolo@yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 18:22:06 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA20915 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:22:06 -0700 Received: from web14704.mail.yahoo.com (web14704.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.121]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id SAA19184 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:06:42 -0700 Message-ID: <20020508010636.85698.qmail@web14704.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.228.67.47] by web14704.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 May 2002 18:06:36 PDT Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:06:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Graham Subject: [freestyle] Two memorable footbaggers To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I remember when i was in 5th grade at Crestview Elementary School, in Carlisle, Pa, two professional footbaggers came to our school. The did freestyle, and net (maybe even golf, but i'm not sure). I'm in 10th grade now, and I probably wouldn't be footbagging now if they hadn't come. I wish i could remember who they were, but if whoever it was are reading this... thanks a lot! From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 18:27:26 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA21774 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:27:26 -0700 Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA19876 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:15:05 -0700 Received: from dfiatx96-031.dfiatx.dsl-verizon.net ([4.3.96.31] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1226435 for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Tue, 07 May 2002 20:08:46 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 20:15:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v481) From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <055F4670-6221-11D6-A274-003065BA9A0E@fogles.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.481) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Friday, May 3, 2002, at 07:57 PM, Ryan M. Hodgson wrote: > I got a question: what is the problem with self serving? 1) It is rude. It annoys many other players. 2) It disrupts the flow of energy in a circle. 3) It sets a very bad precedent for others; they might think that they *never* have to serve to someone else. 4) It is a very negative way to achieve an end. There are other (much better, much more positive) ways of making sure everyone in a circle gets roughly equal time with the footbag. There are other (much better, much more intense) ways to 'practice' moves. Sorry to keep beating the dead horse, but self-serving in a circle is LAME, and it SUCKS. Who the heck started the self-serving thing anyway? Self-serving appeared about the same time BAP did. I was aghast at the time, and was afraid this would come to pass: some of today's kickers see nothing wrong with self-serving. Whoever started it needs pegged - HARD - with about a thousand Sipa-Sipas! The courtesy toss (always serving the bag to someone else, not yourself) was established as one of the most fundamental aspects of footbag before it ever even was footbag, or even Hacky Sack. The courtesy toss embodies the qualities of sharing, community, and togetherness. The courtesy toss builds community and trust; it underscores the unique nature of everyone working together to keep the footbag off the ground (instead of me vs. you). There are 2 primary arguments *for* self-serving, and I'd like to address both of them: * Self-serving is a way for less consistent kickers to get their fair share of footbag time in a circle with other players. Really? Where does this happen? Every time *I've* ever seen self-serving, it's in a circle where *everyone* does it about equally (except for me). Most of the players that do have the consistency that would allow them to hog the bag also have the presence of mind to pass more often and pass to the ones that have gotten the least footbag time. I think the 'need for equal time' is a myth, and until lots of players can give me specific instances, that argument is nothing but a bag that's lost all it's beads. Please, you self-serving circles, just try it: *nobody* self-serves - at all - for just 5 sessions. Then you can decide whether self-serving is really better. * Self-serving is a way to practice a move - correct a mistake - while the idea is still fresh. Have any of you who claim this *ever* kicked by yourself? If you want practice, that's what solo freestyle is for! There's absolutely nothing wrong with kicking solo! In fact, at least 15 minutes of solo kicking per session is about the bare minimum needed to prepare you for the brutal reality of 2 solid minutes of solo freestyle in competition. Solo freestyle is an incredibly beautiful and wonderful activity. It is *my* favorite thing to do with a footbag. When I end up in a circle of self-servers, I usually leave the circle and kick solo nearby. If you want to 'get your fair share' of the footbag, and 'practice' your moves, please do it SOLO! If you want to share footbag with others, please do just that: *share* footbag - with a courtesy toss to a fellow kicker. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 7 18:57:12 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA24685 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:57:12 -0700 Received: from foundationcomputing.net (donorport.org [207.160.174.56]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA24640 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:56:13 -0700 Received: from dfiatx96-031.dfiatx.dsl-verizon.net ([4.3.96.31] verified) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1226525 for freestyle@list.footbag.org; Tue, 07 May 2002 20:49:55 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 20:56:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Personal Records Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v481) From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20020505002557.40230.qmail@web14706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.481) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Saturday, May 4, 2002, at 07:25 PM, Alan Graham wrote: > How many kicks have you had without dropping the > footbag? My personal record is 20,004. I got so excited when I broke 20,000 that I promptly dropped the bag. So as a hard-core consecutives veteran, I can tell you this: consecutives is very 'exponential'. It is just as hard to get 10 consecutives the first time as it is to go from 10 to 100. It is about as difficult again to go from 100 to 1,000. Then 5,000 seems to be a common plateau, I think because you're finally past the consistency struggles and, at about an hour for 5,000 kicks, you begin to have difficulty with concentration. Once you learn the concentration, it is easy to go well over 10,000 consecutive kicks. After you get past about 20,000, you run into logistical problems: you have to learn to drink while kicking or you get dehydrated and lose concentration (that's more or less what happened to me with my 20,004 record). Anyone that's ever seen Ted Martin do one of his many 50,000+ rallies, flawlessly taking water bottles, drinking, and tossing them away, changing sweat bands on his head and wrists, comes to an understanding of just how much effort and ability goes into being a world record holder in footbag consecutives. If you can do 243 kicks, you are *right there* on the edge of breaking through the consistency barrier. You should keep at it! Even if you only ever got to the point of doing 5,000 kicks, that's something that few footbag players have *ever* done, and something you can be very proud of. There's another player that does (or used to do) 1,000 consecutive kicks every kicking session. I do it sometimes myself. It takes about 10 minutes and gives you a great sense accomplishment and control with your footbag. I sometimes bet people $100 that I can do 1,000 kicks without missing on my first try. And I'm not a fool - that's a pretty sure bet for an old consecutives veteran like me. No one has ever taken me up on the bet; I think when I lay $100 on the table like that, they realize I can most likely do it. Consecutives, while not as exciting as shredding, is still a tough discipline in it's own right, and speaks to the heart of what footbag is all about - keeping the footbag off the ground! Take care, and keep kicking! -Derrick From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 8 09:47:35 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA04452 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 8 May 2002 09:47:35 -0700 Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA24826 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:58:22 -0700 From: Ken Shults Received: from KenShults@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id z.186.7916ee7 (4238) for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 21:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <186.7916ee7.2a09e02d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 21:58:05 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org There is and always has been one immutable law in footbag - Don't serve it to yourself. The self-serve is the most heinous offense one can commit in footbag. It is as simple as that. Some of you hold the misguided opinion that you somehow deserve equal bag time with Ahren or Sunil or Pete just because you joined the circle. I know this may come as a shock, but, you don't. You earn that by busting your butt until you're ready to join that circle with honor instead of embarrassing yourself and the sport by trampling the very foundation of the game. Kenny Shults From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 8 09:48:10 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA04558 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 8 May 2002 09:48:10 -0700 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA24962 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 19:00:08 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #39412) id <0GVR03601RVAM7@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 07 May 2002 19:52:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GVR0354NRVAD3@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 07 May 2002 19:52:22 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 19:32:50 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Lavermillenium2 To: freestyle Message-id: <3CCA4249@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From Matt Mueller ===== >Anyone looking for this shoe? then look no further than yonder >http://www.shoes.com/product.asp?p=5000758%7E Anyone looking for sizes other than 9.5,10 or 11. Keep looking! Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 8 09:49:52 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA04840 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 8 May 2002 09:49:52 -0700 Received: from m22.boston.juno.com (m22.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.85]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA28097 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 19:44:54 -0700 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"stHo5BQddtEjcrVLw9PkWzwx92FMpDtKDqRJ+exUBbvz+qiNJ3/1Jw=="> Received: (from flutefreak7@juno.com) by m22.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GZ9NGB74; Tue, 07 May 2002 22:44:21 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 22:43:07 -0400 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Personal Records Message-ID: <20020507.224307.7084.5.flutefreak7@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,21-24 From: Brett N Ables Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everybody, My first consec "record" was 14. Some memorable plateaus were 33, 51, 67, 78, 86, 117 (for 6 months I couldn't re-break 100), 165 (2 months), 244, 334, and now *526*. I've more than tripled my record in 2 months with my first nice footbag (a Mr. Sandman from Revolution Footbags), and almost daily consecutive runs before and/or after a shred session. To beginners, what I've learned is that you MUST be comfortable with your most awkward kick. My left inside didn't come into use until about a year of hacking when I finally started getting serious and working on my form and consistancy. Be able to control your kicks. Just serve yourself and kick once and repeat until you can get that one kick to go right where you want. To newbies going to their first competition you might want to find out what is meant by "consecutives." I thought it would just be a forever rally, but it turns out the "consecutives" event was a 3-minute timed event. I'd never worked on speed before so I decided to just kick and not worry about it. I was 7 kicks away at 292 from winning the intermediate consecutives. Beginners, once you have some consistency, see if you can do something about speed. I've had a lot of fun trying to go at a faster pace. I've never gotten very high numbers with it, but although practice doesn't make "perfect" ("gravity always wins" as they say), it sure does help. Pain is temporary, Brett Ables "Bables" From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 8 09:51:59 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA05065 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 8 May 2002 09:51:59 -0700 Received: from m22.boston.juno.com (m22.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.85]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA28122 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 19:45:01 -0700 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"stHo5BQddtEjcrVLw9PkWzwx92FMpDtKDqRJ+exUBbvt4WP5GZ1zNw=="> Received: (from flutefreak7@juno.com) by m22.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GZ9NGB68; Tue, 07 May 2002 22:44:21 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 22:23:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette Message-ID: <20020507.224307.7084.3.flutefreak7@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,11,21,42,51,65-68 From: Brett N Ables Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all! Here, I talk about etiquitte as it relates to "hacking" at school and "shredding" at my first event. I started with "Hacky Sack" at my high school a year and a half ago. None of us knew anything about "footbag" and the etiquette stuff. The circle formed as naturally for hacky sack as it does for conversation. People would self serve, and when it got to the point of annoyance we'd say something, but we'd never lay down any rules to stop them from doing it again. We didn't make it as far in our first few months as footbag has in the last couple decades. There's a 23-year-old history teacher at the school who was the best for a long time and amazed us all (now the I, the student, have become the teacher). One thing he was a stickler about was self-serving. Since then we've adopted the idea. We try to get hacks, kick across the circle or whatever, and we all get it eventually because the courtesy toss generally goes to the guy who didn't get it in the last run or something. We've just gotten to know eachother and with self-serving the "hack" seems kinda cheap because it was a self-serve, and the game doesn't seem to move as fast. It's more fun to play it up in the circle than to just feed yourself. Well, that's hackysack, now onto footbag. I got into "footbag" just about 6 months ago, and I'm doing quite a bit more than my old toe stalls. The website was the eyeopener for me at first but I thik I've truly blossomed now that I've just gotten back from my first event. (The Cinco de Mayo Footbag Fest in Augusta, GA was one of the greatest experiences I've ever had. I love you Ben!). Here, I learned what a real freestyle circle was. One guy goes at it with a 30 second or so run, and then (usually after he tries something difficult and drops) the bag gets passed. The circles always had a direction that was constant. at 6 or 7 a new circle was formed making two cicles of 3 or 4. Now about the etiquette business. This was generally the case, if I had the bag for more than 20 seconds it was definately the next guy's turn, unless I almost got a cool move for my level, then I'd get a second chance if the next guy was willing. If I bobbled a pass then I could roll it onto my toe (gently) and pop it up and take my 15-30 seconds. If I went for like 5-15 seconds, then I would pass. Either the next guy would pass back with a friendly "heads up" or "let's see that again" or he would refuse it and I would self-serve for another run, after which it was definately his. If someone messed up the direction, the guy who recieved would pass it to the next rightful kicker across the circle and the new guy would see his mistake. Accidental passes can be passed back after a short run or kept after a good-length run. I know that was a lot, but those were simply my observations in my first real freestyle circles. It was simple respect and courtesy. Occassionally someone would get zealous about a move and ask to try again. In this case the would-be reciever is usually excited enough about the guy hitting the move that he says yes. Asking for another try should be very rare and when you do just try the one move once and pass. If you do anything that challenges you and you had it for atleast 5 seconds then always pass. You'll get your chance. If you need to, go solo outside the circle so you can drill and watch the others. Sorry about the length, but that's my 20 cents on this subject. And by the way, there's nothing wrong with beating subjects to death. That's how we learn and progress. All through life we ask the same questions over and over. Those questions that are difficult, and even though we may not arrive at an answer, the great lifelong conversation is a valuable experience for all. I learned a lot on Cinco de Mayo, and I wanted to give some of that to those who don't have that kind of opportunity. My mom drove me (15-yr-old) 275 miles so I could go to the first event ever in the Southeast (which was a huge success!!!). I wanted to give people who aren't as serious or don't have the opportunities an idea of an event because I now know how courtesy can fit into both a hack circle and a shred circle. Feel free to reply to me about personal comments (or questions) unless you feel like hundreds of people would benefit from what you have to say. Shred hard! Pain is temporary! Brett Ables "Bables" From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 8 09:52:49 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA05123 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 8 May 2002 09:52:49 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f15.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.15]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id XAA05352 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 23:26:34 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 7 May 2002 23:26:30 -0700 Received: from 67.27.147.114 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 May 2002 06:26:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.27.147.114] From: "pete irish" To: derrick@fogles.net, freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 02:26:25 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2002 06:26:30.0234 (UTC) FILETIME=[4A4FA3A0:01C1F659] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derrick Fogle wrote: >>Who the heck started the self-serving thing anyway? Self-serving >appeared about the same time BAP did. I was aghast at the time, and was >afraid this would come to pass: some of today's kickers see nothing >wrong with self-serving. Whoever started it needs pegged - HARD - with >about a thousand Sipa-Sipas! Sorry Derrick, but you're completely wrong on this one. Don't blame this ridiculous phenomena on the original Big Add Posse. From day 1, the standard of the Posse was ALWAYS absolutely NO self serving-EVER. This was a strict standard. You would never see a self serve in any early posse circles; you wouldn't even think about trying it. If you did, you would face the wrath of the Enforcer for sure, and it wouldn't be pleasant. In the original posse circles there was not even toss backs. We agreed on this standard as a way to challenge ourselves and keep focus and intensity in the circle. This was the same mindset that pushed us to eliminate one and two adds out of combos and to push the level of play as high as we could. Self serving is actually a relatively new thing. Please keep in mind that even up until 1994 there were only the original 7 members in the posse, and subsequent members continued to uphold this standard. It was around the time of Shults's first retirement that self serving became widespread. Ask Rippin, Tim Kelly, Dennis Jones, or Eric Wulff or Tuan Vu about self serving and you will hear the same story. Ladies and gentlemen, the standard of the Big Add Posse was always no self serving, and as far as I'm concerned it still is. Self serving is self-ish, lazy, and boring. It adds nothing to a circle; it only takes. A circle is not just about showing off. We can push each other and build collective energy, but not when people are self serving all over the place. For those of you upholding this standard and tradition, much props and respect. Peter Irish Original Big Add Posse From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 8 09:56:11 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA05343 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 8 May 2002 09:56:11 -0700 Received: from tig-msxproto1.tig.mizzou.edu (tig-msxproto1.tig.mizzou.edu [128.206.7.41]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA03436 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 09:33:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:30:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1E68BBF368521A498EA50DEDB61120900492AF6A@tiger-mail02.mizzou.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=A0=5Bfreestyle=5D=A0Footbag=A0freestyle=A0etiquette?= Thread-Index: AcH2KSloTYVyjxlHTCKTQGvqQcLRUAAKOf+xABbh7G0= From: "Senger, Steven Michael (UMC-Student)" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by llic.net id JAA03436 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Its kinda like the Chinese(?) Heaven / Hell parable: A man went to heaven and hell in the same day. in heaven he saw many tables, each with ten men sitting around them. They had an amazing feast set out before them and really long chopsticks. Hell was set up exactly the same way. The only difference was that in heaven the men fed each other, so they were all happy; but in hell the men greedily tried to feed themselves, but couldn't due to their chopsticks being to long. okay yeah so how closely that really applies to this situation is quite a stretch... but honestly, self serving is pretty looked down upon in my regular circle at the drop zone. -----Original Message----- From: Caleb Abraham Sent: 5/7/02 5:49 PM > But is it really necessary to go through the > "tradition" of passing the bag, > only to have it passed back? Hmmm, is it really necissary to pass, if it will be passed back? Is it really necissary to kick the bag up if it only will come back down? YES!!!!!! Because it's more fun for all if we share and don't self serve. (if that makes any sense to anyone but me) I remember the last jam I was at, I would say that I knew the sport well by then, but I was skooling at home by myself which made me a self-server. When I unleashed the wretched habit that came my way, Mr. Bob Reifer let out a roar that could have scared my skinny A$$ all the way back home. Haha, well once the paleness went away from my face I began to relize the image I was making of myself, especially to the more advanced kickers I was playing with. The point is, that we all want to show off the best of our ability to the stylers we look up to, but I don't care if you busted the beast 2 inches away from my face. If you had to self-serve twice before doing so it's just not that great to some. If you do like self-serving then great, go do it all you want, but you're never going to please everyone at an event. Too many people are anti-self's to even argue the point in my eyes. Happily back on the anti-selfs team, Caleb From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun May 12 16:18:50 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id QAA20602 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 12 May 2002 16:18:50 -0700 Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA21003 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:22:32 -0700 Received: from burn-a ([12.245.2.106]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020508012232.OWXU10136.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@burn-a>; Wed, 8 May 2002 01:22:32 +0000 From: Francisco Tejeda To: Matt , freestyle X-Mailer: PocoMail 2.5 (974) - Registered Version Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 21:22:41 -0400 References: <20020505002557.40230.qmail@web14706.mail.yahoo.com> <004001c1f61c$31341aa0$9fe9b00a@publichealth.uiowa.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Personal Records Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-Id: <20020508012232.OWXU10136.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@burn-a> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by llic.net id SAA21003 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hmm... Mine is bad too. The most I get is 71. My consecutive toe stall record is 26. >Ooooh, mine is much worse. I only practiced kicking for like 6 >months before >freestyle (probly a mistake), so my record is like 26 I think. > > >> How many kicks have you had without dropping the >> footbag? >> I'm almost ashamed to admit my record (considering >> every one elses are probably three times longer), but >> my record is 243 (I've only been footbagging for a >> year). -- Burn, franciscotejeda@attbi.com on 05/07/2002 From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun May 12 16:20:43 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id QAA20685 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 12 May 2002 16:20:43 -0700 Received: from ems.salk.edu (ems.salk.edu [198.202.69.12]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id LAA12183 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 11:41:26 -0700 Received: from [198.202.67.129] (198.202.67.129) by ems.salk.edu (Worldmail 1.3.167) for freestyle@footbag.org; 8 May 2002 11:38:21 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:38:51 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Cameron Kennedy Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by llic.net id LAA12183 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org My name is Cameron and I'm a self server. I play 100% of my sessions in public, sometimes without a shirt. I promote two touch no toss back as the fastest way to keep the bag moving around the circle. I think four tricks constitutes a full turn. Two touch provides the best experience for the audience and the players. Players know when their turn is, and spectators get to see more runs. I think starting a run and kicking and starting again is the same as a self serve, but each camp has their own rules to justify multiple tries. If , instead of a hand catch, I need to kick the bag to take another turn then I guess I can play no self serve at events, but I think it's all mind games anyway, since you're still taking multiple tries under the disguise of an elite one try system. cameron From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun May 12 16:23:27 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id QAA20968 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 12 May 2002 16:23:27 -0700 Received: from mail8.bigmailbox.com (mail8.bigmailbox.com [209.132.220.39]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA14407 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 12:21:32 -0700 Received: (from www@localhost) by mail8.bigmailbox.com (8.11.6/8.10.0) id g48IMCl13563; Wed, 8 May 2002 11:22:12 -0700 Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:22:12 -0700 Message-Id: <200205081822.g48IMCl13563@mail8.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [24.128.13.123] From: "Neil Bornstein" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Various Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yo, Firstly, I've been hacking for a year, I can hit most 2-add moves, some 3's and 4's and one 7. (Paradox spinning x-bd heel rake, I call it Versatility). My questions are the following. 1: I've been trying a symposium dragonfly kick. Is it still considered symposium if the dexing foot doesn't hit the ground again? 2: If I wanted to enter a competition, would I be able to wear sandals, which are what I normally hack in? As well, can anyone hit the following, because that would be wicked cool: clip>same in (plant)>same out>same clip. ie, start on right clipper, toss it up, do an in to out (paradox) dexterity with the right foot. Plant that foot, then do the reverse of what you did. An out to in dex with the right foot, to clipper delay, keeping the bag in front of you. That would be wicked cool. Later, Neil "Thwap Man" Bornstein From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun May 12 16:28:42 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id QAA21513 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 12 May 2002 16:28:42 -0700 Received: from pd3mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (h24-71-223-10.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA19707 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 13:33:03 -0700 Received: from pd2mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr2so-ser.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.109]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GVT008E67QYGM@l-daemon> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 08 May 2002 14:32:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml5so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml5so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.149]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GVT00FPI7QYP8@l-daemon> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 08 May 2002 14:32:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from k1 (h24-70-219-33.gv.shawcable.net [24.70.219.33]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with SMTP id <0GVT00GL47QYEI@l-daemon> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 08 May 2002 14:32:58 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 13:32:19 -0700 From: Allan Haggett Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette To: freestyle list Message-id: <001601c1f6cf$739b5f30$21db4618@k1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ryan Hodgson wrote: > I got a question: what is the problem with self serving? The problem with self-serving is that: A) The people who invented this game made "no self serving" one of the basic rules. This is all you should really need to to know. Why can't you travel with a basketball? B) Self serving can be taken as a literal statement. Self serving = selfish = not fun for anyone else. C) Self serving is addictive. People that do it, tend to do it all the time, every time the bag comes to them. Jubal said that maybe we need to have more patience when it comes to self servers. I would argue that it is the self server thats needs to develop patience and understand that no one wants to watch them drop the bag 3 times in a row before they pass it. As Derrick said, "It disrupts the flow of energy in a circle" - especially if they do it every time. If you get the bag and botch right away, have some patience and realise that gravity won again and that if you just *pass the damn bag* it will come around again much faster for your second attempt. Self serving creates an environment that leads more to the restriction of freedom of expression than tolerating it does to improve it. If you can't see that, continue to self serve, but know that you are breaking one of the defining rules of the game. You may as well skool those hand stalls. -Allan, S.S.A. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun May 12 16:29:54 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id QAA21629 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 12 May 2002 16:29:54 -0700 Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA23820 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 14:41:13 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #39412) id <0GVT07301AWKY6@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 08 May 2002 15:41:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GVT0736AAWJQ7@clem.mscd.edu>; Wed, 08 May 2002 15:41:07 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 15:21:34 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Circling the footbag twice To: Alan Graham , freestyle Message-id: <3CCADC23@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From Alan Graham ===== > I'm finally ready to start working on 3-add >tricks. It seems that most all 3-add tricks involve >circling the footbag twice. You're in luck because this is not entirely true. Osis, Butterfly, Paradox Mirage, Pixie Clipper, Symposium Mirage, Eclipse, Refraction, Spinning Clipper, Atomic Clipper, Drifter, ducking/diving/zulu/weaving clipper, swirl, x-body sole stall, and many others are 3 adds with only one dex or less. Torque, spinning butterfly, dyno, blender, flux, Paradox Drifter, spinning Osis, ducking/diving/zulu/weaving butterfly/osis, twirl, paradox whirl, and more are all 4 adds with only one dex or less. There are also a bunch of 5's and probably some 6's too. > I don't have the speed to >circle it twice, I can only get about 1 and 1/2 times >around it. I'm assuming that you mean circling the bag twice with the same foot. I've found that it's not always about speed. It can certainly get there when you're talking about moves that begin with a barraging set, but a lot of times it's about fluidity and window size. The best exercise I can think of would be practicing the move without the bag and visualizing. You may look as stupid as I do while waiting in line at the supermarket, but I guaratee it helps. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun May 12 16:32:14 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id QAA21935 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 12 May 2002 16:32:14 -0700 Received: from web9607.mail.yahoo.com (web9607.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.129.186]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id PAA27295 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 15:20:10 -0700 Message-ID: <20020508222006.34008.qmail@web9607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.164.2.30] by web9607.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 May 2002 15:20:06 PDT Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 15:20:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag freestyle etiquette To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <186.7916ee7.2a09e02d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey yo. I would like to add my name to the list of people who agree that self-serving is junk. Not that I should have to. It really is the oldest and most sacred rule of footbag, and for obvious reasons which have already been stated a number of times on this list. I'm not going to repeat them. I would like to make a side note, however, about the people who have told you not to self serve and why you should listen to them. Oh man, I can already hear many of you moaning and bitching already. Another BAP member trying to tell everybody what to do. Why should people pay any mind at all to the Big Add Posse anymore? How about this? Forget that Kenny Shults, Peter Irish and Sunil Jani (all of whom have said self-serving sucks - in case you've lost your short term memory) are all BAP. Instead let us think of them as people who love footbag so much, that they have spent hours, days, months, years, motherf...ing decades! practicing and just having fun with it. Let me tell you from experience that being able to step into a cirle and play with people like that is nothing less than magical. Not just because of how good they are but the kind of people they are as well. You feel like they respect you, and they do, no matter who you are. But only as long as you respect them back. If you don't have respect for everybody else that'