From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jul 1 10:28:00 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA21978 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:28:00 -0700 Received: from f16.int ([10.0.0.108] helo=f16.mail.ru) by mx8.mail.ru with esmtp (Exim MX.8) id 17OsHL-000ORb-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 01 Jul 2002 07:55:07 +0400 Received: from mail by f16.mail.ru with local (Exim FE.14) id 17OsHK-000PGW-00 for freestyle@FOOTBAG.ORG; Mon, 01 Jul 2002 07:55:06 +0400 Received: from [24.42.168.50] by win.mail.ru with HTTP; Mon, 01 Jul 2002 06:55:06 +0300 From: "Tony Zverev" To: freestyle@footbag.org Cc: Subject: [freestyle] Footbag in England Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: mPOP Web-Mail 2.19 X-Originating-IP: [24.42.168.50] Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 06:55:06 +0300 Reply-To: "Tony Zverev" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey guys. I was just wondering if someone knows about the situation with footbag in England. As for myself, i'm not related to this country, and asking this just out of curiosity. I've seen only one club registered on footbag.org and not so many players in members area. But England (and UK) is one of the leading european countries, it's first in Clubs and Electronic music right now, but what's up with footbag? If enyone knows about level of freestyle, net game, knows something about people and locations, please let me know. Shred On, Tony Zverev From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jul 1 10:29:17 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA22055 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:29:17 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:42:18 -0700 Received: from 66.66.95.187 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Jul 2002 02:42:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.66.95.187] From: "Jeff Appis" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Heavy Footbags Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 02:42:18 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jul 2002 02:42:18.0979 (UTC) FILETIME=[EB0B8330:01C220A8] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org While cruising around the Renaissance festival today I managed to find a footbag made of chainmail! It is filled with corn currently and is on the small side as far as footbags go. I was wondering if heavy footbags such as this would help to build strength or if they would be considered as a branch off of normal freestyle (playing with these heavy footbags is quite difficult compared to normal footbags). My friend emptied his footbag and filled it with BB's and it is heavier than the chainmail version and after playing with it for awhile a regular footbag feels lighter than air! Well just thought i'd like to bring this out in the open, happy shredding! Yours truly, Jeff Appis From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jul 2 13:42:00 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA20341 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 13:42:00 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 12:31:16 -0700 Received: from 65.94.117.217 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 02 Jul 2002 19:31:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.94.117.217] Reply-To: yax@footbag.org From: "Yacine Merzouk" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Montreal Freestyle Tournament Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 15:31:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jul 2002 19:31:16.0170 (UTC) FILETIME=[086F8AA0:01C221FF] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello footbag world! Everything is set up for a long week-end of footbag. The Montreal Summer Challenge is less than 2 weeks from now! We expect a capacity crowd this year again. We have lots of prizes for competitors and for people who just want to attend. "The Fiend" Merzouk, "Hurricane" Duchesne, "Eternal" Piltz, and "Flaming Inferno" Bevier have confirmed they will attend. 2 days of competition. 1 day at the tam-tam jam. It's going to be awesome! All the info is on footbag.org. If you need a hotel room let me know. We do not have any reserved rooms left but I'll give you a list of great-but-cheap hotels near the site. And all of you Americans who want to show up rember this: Give us 100$, cross the Border, and we'll give you 160$. Welcome to Canada! -Yacine Merzouk yax@footbag.org Shred! From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jul 3 23:02:13 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id XAA30446 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:02:13 -0700 Received: (cpmta 26596 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2002 22:57:56 -0700 Received: from 64.194.176.97 (HELO ghostpirate) by smtp.directvinternet.com (209.228.33.243) with SMTP; 3 Jul 2002 22:57:56 -0700 X-Sent: 4 Jul 2002 05:57:56 GMT Message-ID: <000501c2231f$bc238d00$61b0c240@ghostpirate> From: "Chris Pinkus" To: Subject: [freestyle] New move Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:57:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, Today I hit a gyro (spyro) symposium eggbeater. If no one else has hit this, I'd like to not name it. Chris Pinkus From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jul 4 15:05:38 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA27218 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 15:05:38 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #39412) id <0GYQ06901KT4FU@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 12:03:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #39412) with ESMTP id <0GYQ064HCKT3GZ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 12:03:04 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 11:41:56 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] What's the name To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3D1DBBB9@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I finally started hitting Stepping Diving Same-side Butterfly. Yay me! What's it called? Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jul 5 00:28:06 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id AAA09939 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 00:28:06 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 00:12:04 -0700 Received: from 142.173.196.163 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 05 Jul 2002 07:12:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [142.173.196.163] From: "Rob Fuller" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Pixie Diving Stuff Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 01:12:04 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jul 2002 07:12:04.0526 (UTC) FILETIME=[4408FCE0:01C223F3] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tonight (with 2 witnesses) I busted pixie diving double down, and pixie diving whirl. I was just wondering if either have been hit. -Rob From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jul 5 12:50:59 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA32065 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 12:50:59 -0700 Received: from apollo.sfsu.edu (daemon@apollo.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.167]) by cluster1.sfsu.edu (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g65FtjD25666 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 08:55:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (tuhuge@localhost) by apollo.sfsu.edu (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id g65Ftjn10366 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 08:55:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: apollo.sfsu.edu: tuhuge owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 08:55:45 -0700 (PDT) From: TU VAN VU To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Swiss Videos Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi All, The swiss scene has been rockin out. Check out some of their videos at www.sole-rebels.ch Go to their downloads page and click on videos. For up to date information, coming attractions, and everything in the world to do with Worlds, check out www.footbag.org/worlds2002 This years Worlds will go down in history as the greatest event of all time, will you be there? Tu From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jul 5 22:17:50 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id WAA17621 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 22:17:50 -0700 Received: by saturn.wwc.edu (Postfix, from userid 107) id 13669C2DED; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 04:25:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from student.wwc.edu (student.wwc [10.82.5.3]) by saturn.wwc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9127C2DD9 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 04:25:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from WWC-MTA by student.wwc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 05 Jul 2002 21:26:27 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 21:26:05 -0700 From: "Erik Engeberg" To: Subject: [freestyle] Shredders in the Loma Linda, California area Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Attention anyone living in the Loma Linda, California area; I am new to this region and am looking for some shred buddies. I have tried emailing some club listings but gotten no response. Thanks, -Erik engeer@wwc.edu From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jul 7 22:54:54 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id WAA29621 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:54:54 -0700 Received: from 1sgpz01 (syr-66-24-59-181.twcny.rr.com [66.24.59.181]) by mailout5.nyroc.rr.com (8.11.6/RoadRunner 1.20) with SMTP id g67EcUL04777 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 10:38:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000901c225c3$f174a880$b53b1842@twcny.rr.com> From: "Tyler Linscot" To: Subject: [freestyle] torque Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 10:38:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I need something clarified. When I pull a "crispy" torque I set w/ my right clipper, in dex w my opposite foot and then the bag goes around my right hip and i do the osis. However when I pull what I thought was original recipe torque i set, dex and then turn and the bag ends on my clipper without going around me right thigh. Is this not a torque?? confused shreder, ty From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jul 8 19:04:31 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA06705 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 19:04:31 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 15:08:59 -0700 Received: from 66.183.196.136 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 22:08:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.183.196.136] From: "Jeff Lopes" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Shred Zero Summer Open Reflections Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:08:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2002 22:08:59.0193 (UTC) FILETIME=[0F50C290:01C226CC] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello All, This past weekends was one of the funnest weekends off my life. The shred zero hosted some of the best new up and coming freestylers. I will just highlight some of the things I enjoyed seeing and doing. Friday night after arriving in Calgary on a 11 hour bus journy, i was like, there is no way im going to be able to shred tonight.....boy was I wrong. I ended up shredding like 6 hours! The tournament site was amazing. All weekend long the weather was sunny, and not too windy. Anyway, the shred was INSANE. I'll start with this name 'Derek Vandall'. First thing I see him hit was shooting ducking butterfly. SHOOTING DUCKING! He was nuclearing this and shooting that and stepping ducking this and pixie this and that both sides all weekend long. So smooth and like hasnt been playing long at all. Its amazing. Cant wait to shred with him again. HIGHLIGHT: Shooting Ducking Whirl!!!! Also, 19 magellans in socks. Next, Erik Chan. He was going off with insane ducking and spinning combos. He was ducking his quantum set, and hit Johnny Quest. He made Predator look easy, and he broke a few records right in front of my eyes. He took more flim footage than total hours of sleep I got. HIGHLIGHT: 3 toe set spinning merkons. Ok, this next guy Rob Fuller, was the best host I have ever met. He fed me, and let me crash and it was just awesome. I cant thank him enough, everyone must meet this hilarious dude. I had so much fun just hanging out with Rob than let alone shredding. His shred was amazing. So FAST and FLUENT. 23 smears in a row, smog>smog like CAKE. He has the best pixie Ive ever seen. HIGHLIGHT: legbeater>barfly>scorpions tail like it AINT NO THANG. Also, PIXIE DIVING DOUBLE DOWN. My home town Kelowna boy Jon Zale was shredding hard all weekend long at his first tournament. Kelowna was representing hard. :) Jon took sick one with his fairy mobius or you can choose surfing blender (big poppa smurf: Fairy Symp Swirling Blender). The kid has so much fun, at points he couldnt talk cause he was laughing so hard....literally. He couldnt play the last day cause he burnt himself out from all the sick stuff he was blasting out. Fairy and Pixie ducking like cake. HIGHLIGHT: hitting big poppa smurf for the camera, then smiling with a blue mouth cause of all the slushy's he drank. Last but not least Id like to thank Mike Avery for driving me around all over calgary, and taking me through many tourist sites (some of which he hasnt even seen and he lives there!) The guy was attempting Gauntlet, and pixie ducking paradon off his foot for goodness sake. Thanks again Mike, I had a great time. HIGHLIGHT: Stepping Reverse Drifter. OK, as well Id like to say how much young talent there is in Calgary, and I wish I had a club like that here in Kelowna. Chris Gregory took Intermediate shred 30 with a well done shred. Pixie down double is his move. Also I saw Brain Johnson hit PS whirl and Apline Dimwalk! WTF? Yeah BRIAN! And Jaime Lylod had good long strings all weekend long, and I hope he keeps on shredding. Everyone should make it out to this event next year, it was so sick. I had a blast and the level of shred blew me away. Till we meet again. Jeff Lopes P.S. I suggest everyone go to this URL http://www.modified.ca/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=316 This is a complete list of what everyone was hitting. There is some HARSH stuff. LAter From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jul 8 19:17:48 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA07149 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 19:17:48 -0700 From: "Chad Devlahovich" Received: from BapFoLife@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id z.191.96f2a68 (4263) for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:19:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <191.96f2a68.2a5ac145@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:19:49 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Vortex Video To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 40 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I am proud to announce the release of my latest quality shred video. Vortex contains big tricks and combos from many of the sport's top pros. Some footage was taken from the 2002 Colorado Shred Symposium and 2002 Western Regionals. To get a copy, email me privately. Thanks, Big Add Chad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jul 8 19:28:38 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA07707 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 19:28:38 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:12:41 -0700 Received: from 66.183.241.201 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 17:12:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.183.241.201] From: "Jubal Hume" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Heavy Footbags Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:12:40 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2002 17:12:41.0314 (UTC) FILETIME=[AADFB420:01C226A2] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org RE: chain mail footbags.. Funny that you should find one as we (SoleAirPro) in Victoria B.C. are in the process of making them!! We will be offering them in the near future for a reasonable cost. Not only are they great for training, but also ..well...they [if looked after] should never wear out either!! lol - the eternal footbag. peace to all and to all a good shred. Jubal in Victoria - ciao for now. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jul 8 19:30:37 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA07838 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 19:30:37 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:24:44 -0700 Received: from 207.194.21.64 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:24:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.194.21.64] From: "Jonathan Zaleski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shred Zero Summer Open Reflections Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 09:24:43 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2002 16:24:44.0099 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7EB8930:01C2269B] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey List, The Shred Zero open was sick!!! Everyone was busting sooooo huge. Lets start with the winnepeg crew. Derek Vandall was busting some of the most intense moves I've never even dreamed were possible, such as, Shooting pdx whirl, nuclear torque, pixie ducking dlo, pixie ducking torque, ducking sumo(off his foot), shooting ducking butterfly,nuclear pdx dlo, and shooting ducking pdx whirl off his foot like at least 5 times. Erik Chan was hitting awesome runs with ducking everything all over the place. And i witnessed the toe set merkon record being set at 3, that was pretty sick. He was so close to quantum ducking, and i saw him doing symposium quantum too. Team Calgary was representin as well. Mike busted non crispy grifter, and stepping same grifter, and had tapping grifter and blurry grifter off his foot. And I dont know how many times he had pixie ducking paradon roll of his foot. Rob Fuller was nailing huge combos like legbeater>barfly>scorpions tail, and pixie paradon both sides in one run, and you cant forget that crazy pincher dance move, lol. As for kelowna, we didnt perform to shabby if i dont say so myself. Jeff Lopes was busting huge combos everywhere, and hit stepping diving rake, stepping ducking pdx whirl, paradon rake, backside simple torque screw, whirlygig, and pdx torque ending in dyno. Jeff also took home the first place prize money in shred thirty with a score of 140 something. As for moi, I had a few long strings, and i hit paradon rake, fairy same side whirl, big papa smurf(fairy same side symposium swirling blender) and phobia(fairy mobius), unfortuneatly playing for about 15 hours in 2 days hurts the kneesles a little. So i played for about five minutes on sunday. I'd also like to thank rob for housing and feeding us all weekend and hosting such a well organized event and mike for driving everyone everywhere. Well, I'm gonna go take a nap now, and pray for my kneecaps to grow back, lol, Yours Truly, Jon Zaleski From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jul 10 00:22:55 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id AAA05853 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:22:55 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:43:30 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [210.55.98.126] From: "Michael Berry" To: Subject: [freestyle] Double Illusion Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 11:41:26 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2002 23:43:30.0295 (UTC) FILETIME=[6DF80070:01C227A2] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey pplz, I was thinking about another name for Double illusion ( TOE > OP OUT [DEX] > SAME OUT [DEX] > OP TOE [DEL]). How about Delusion? Or does it already have a name? Please send me your comments Thanks Michael Berry play hard, shred harder From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jul 10 00:24:44 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id AAA05904 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:24:44 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 20:27:30 -0700 Received: from 65.58.102.205 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 03:27:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.58.102.205] From: "Jay Ferries" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Heavy Footbags Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 22:27:30 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2002 03:27:30.0881 (UTC) FILETIME=[B92EAB10:01C227C1] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I tried the BB deal a couple years ago, and it works excellently for building strength and endurance, especially in consecutives. The only downside was the weight of the BBs ripped the seams apart. The chainmail should solve this, though, and if you find a place i could order one, let me know. -Jay Ferries >From: "Jeff Appis" >To: freestyle@footbag.org >Subject: [freestyle] Heavy Footbags >Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 02:42:18 +0000 > > > > While cruising around the Renaissance festival today I managed to >find a footbag made of chainmail! It is filled with corn currently and is >on the small side as far as footbags go. I was wondering if heavy footbags >such as this would help to build strength or if they would be considered as >a branch off of normal freestyle (playing with these heavy footbags is >quite difficult compared to normal footbags). My friend emptied his >footbag and filled it with BB's and it is heavier than the chainmail >version and after playing with it for awhile a regular footbag feels >lighter than air! Well just thought i'd like to bring this out in the >open, happy shredding! > > Yours truly, > Jeff Appis From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jul 10 13:51:55 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA08424 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:51:55 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:29:51 -0700 Received: from 161.184.26.244 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:29:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.26.244] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: dafootbager@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Double Illusion Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:29:50 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2002 19:29:51.0234 (UTC) FILETIME=[291D5620:01C22848] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >I was thinking about another name for Double illusion ( TOE > OP OUT [DEX] > > >SAME OUT [DEX] > OP TOE [DEL]). > >How about Delusion? Sounds good to me. Far as I know it doesn't have a name, but I could be wrong! Delusion rules tho. Good thinking. Dylan Livingston From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jul 10 16:16:52 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id QAA13196 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:16:52 -0700 Received: from cpe-66-87-43-47.co.sprintbbd.net ([66.87.43.47] helo=freedom1) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17SQNF-0004GZ-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:55:53 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Daryl Genz" To: Subject: [freestyle] Routines: Time Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:56:05 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Fellow Footbaggers, I have a question/concern regarding an issue in routines that seems rather gray to me at this point. How do you define paradox? Just kidding... Seriously though, as I understand the rules, you are only allowed two minutes from "the time the music starts" to complete your routine (or have the ending count). However, it seems to me that there have been a few routines (at Westerns this year, for example) where this rule did not strictly apply. This can especially be an issue where someone finds the perfect song that's 2:04 or something like that. I suppose that this question might be most readily answered by Eric Wulff, but I also wanted to get a feel from the general public. Peace. Daryl Genz From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jul 10 17:38:07 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA15548 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:38:07 -0700 Received: (qmail 25671 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2002 00:30:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dell) ([216.27.176.244]) (envelope-sender ) by mail14.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 11 Jul 2002 00:30:08 -0000 From: "Eric Wulff" To: Subject: RE: [freestyle] Routines: Time Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:24:44 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, great question. Judges can, do and will at worlds make judgment calls. That's why they are judges. Generally the routine begins on the first 'ACTION' and if the player is not using the music for any reason other than introducing the music by playing it and waiting for a certain cue to start, instead of cutting into the song to get to where he or she wants, than it's generally ok. If the player is dancing, juggling or doing any other activity, possibly aside from walking out onto the stage, than the routine starts. Eric From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jul 10 20:20:43 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA22772 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:20:43 -0700 Received: from I (dhcp212.llic.net [209.125.90.212]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA22769 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:20:42 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:20:37 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: RE: [freestyle] Routines: Time Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eric's exactly right. Here's a little more on it for those who care... This is an IFC rule that was changed a few years ago (I believe it was during the '99 Worlds in Chicago). Unfortunately, the IFC rule book has not been updated in a long time, but now that we have the IFPA we are working on fixing it. Just be patient and all will be wonderful. :-) Anyway, as Eric said, the official rule which seems to be frequently misunderstood is that the timer starts *when the player begins presenting his/her routine*. It is *not* when the music starts. The concept is, if the player does any motion of "presentation", whether with the footbag or not, it means their routine has begun. It is up to the time keeper to judge when that is -- so players should be clear to start their routines in an obvious fashion. The time does *not* start automatically with the music, nor with the player's motion to start the music. Instead, it starts when the player begins performing. Examples: (1) If you walk out when the music's playing, stop in the middle, put the bag on your foot, and wait for a cue in the music before you begin, the clock will be idle through that period (so your routine will start when you'd expect it to, regardless of when the music started). (2) If you walk out, whether or not there's music playing, look around the audience, then start doing back-flips, then the clock will start as soon as you start the backflips. (3) If you stand there, snapping your fingers, and otherwise doing nothing, then the time keeper will have to decide whether he/she thinks that's "presentation". But clearly once you start kicking or doing more gross motion of presentation, the clock should start then. (4) If you walk out, motion for the music to start by pointing to the sound booth, turn and face the judges or audience, smile, and put the footbag gently onto your foot -- throughout this there is clearly no routine yet, and the clock should not start yet. But, once you lift your leg to set the bag up, then *beep* the clock starts. (90% of freestyle routines start this way, which is why I include it. The clock should not start just because you put the bag on your foot. You can *move* you just can't *perform* without starting the clock.) Basically, the concept is that the judges should be judging a two-minute routine (in open), so if you as a player do anything that is interpretable by the judges as part of your routine, the clock should be ticking. I hope this makes sense. It's really quite a simple concept and it was a real moment at the IFC meeting when Kenny proposed it in response to a much more complicated proposal of my own. I looked at Kenny and said, "Wow -- what an elegant solution. You sure are smart. Thanks." And we voted it in. Steve At 5:24 PM -0700 7/10/02, Eric Wulff wrote: >Hi all, great question. Judges can, do and will at worlds make judgment >calls. That's why they are judges. Generally the routine begins on the >first 'ACTION' and if the player is not using the music for any reason other >than introducing the music by playing it and waiting for a certain cue to >start, instead of cutting into the song to get to where he or she wants, >than it's generally ok. > >If the player is dancing, juggling or doing any other activity, possibly >aside from walking out onto the stage, than the routine starts. > >Eric From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jul 10 23:31:04 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id XAA28018 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:31:04 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #30560) id <0GZ200T01M9XAN@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 00:05:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #30560) with ESMTP id <0GZ200PQ3M9XHC@clem.mscd.edu>; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 00:05:57 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:44:41 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] Double Illusion To: freestyle , Michael Berry Message-id: <3D2CD8EA@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From Michael Berry ===== >I was thinking about another name for Double illusion ( TOE > OP OUT [DEX] > >SAME OUT [DEX] > OP TOE [DEL]). >How about Delusion? >Or does it already have a name? I think Delusion sounds better than any other name it might already have. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jul 11 15:35:48 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA30806 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:35:48 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 03:59:42 -0700 Received: from 212.108.198.33 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:59:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [212.108.198.33] Reply-To: impax@joecrain.com From: "Joseph Crain" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] European Footbag Championships Report Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:59:42 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2002 10:59:42.0703 (UTC) FILETIME=[0F6BE7F0:01C228CA] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sup Ya'll. Just got done attending the EU champs in Budapest it was the booommmbbbb. Ka-boom. Listen up Americans: Don't get me wrong I have had a *great* time at all the tourneys I have been to in the states. But this was something a step above. There was a ton of spectators, there was a freestlye BMX demo, a freestyle breakdancing demo. There was a battle between the footbaggers and the breakdancers. And the parties....OH MAN. I didnt go to bed before 6am for 4 days. Of course I was here so we had 4-square all night long. We even had a kick ass game of silent football. On the last day there was the usual new sign: 'Do not make noise on the street past midnight'. My favorite part of the competition was the doubles freestyle. The 1st place open doubles routine will make most people either cry and/or speechless. Just wait and see it...this routine had alot of new concepts and was easily the best doubles routine I have ever seen. Doubles is much more popular over here it seems, and teams are working hard on producing awsome routines. The Czech Republic players are off the hook. Aleš hooked me up with some great tips and worked with me one on one for probably an hour. Thanks dude! You can see the Mulroney trail though the Czech team...playing James brown during shred sessions and busting tripless runs like butta. There was alot of video being shot at this tournament. You will want to check these out to see all phat tricks this tourney produced. The French dudes have told me they will be putting out a video about this tournament that will kick ass. Look for me and Eric busting the doubles bridge jumping into a tributary on the Duna river at 7am after closing out the tournament's after-party. What a week. Peace! joe From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jul 11 15:52:29 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA31322 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:52:29 -0700 Received: from I (dhcp212.llic.net [209.125.90.212]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA31319 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:52:29 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:52:29 -0700 To: freestyle@list.footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] European Footbag Championships Report Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:59 AM +0000 7/11/02, Joseph Crain wrote: >Of course I was here so we had 4-square all night long. Ahem. *I* hauled my chalk line and the fatty street chalk all the way to Budapest for this thing, buddy. :-) Give me some credit. :-) We would've had four-square with or without you! Heh heh. >My favorite part of the competition was the doubles freestyle. I can't agree more. It is so cool to see a sport that is for lack of a better term "dying" in the U.S. become new again! The level of play is astounding. >The Czech Republic players are off the hook. And a side note -- for those of you who keep hearing about the Czechs but haven't met them, now's your chance. Four of the shredders from CZ will be at Worlds this year: Vasek (pronounced vashek), Ales (pronounced alesh), Jan (pronounced dexter :-)) and Honza. There are yet more awesome players in Czech Republic, but these guys'll represent. Anyway, I had a great time, too. The thing Joe forgot to mention was that he led a mission of over 45 footbaggers on a 1.5-hour hike through the streets (and bridges) of Budapest from 11:30pm until 1am on a quest to find the insane all-night party on an island on the Danube. It was worth the hike (can you imagine 45 people walking in a hoard for 1.5 hours?) It was a bit of a pain at the time, since this was after the finals and everyone was pretty tired, but it was fun in retrospect. :-) Thanks, Joe. Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jul 12 23:22:39 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id XAA24277 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 23:22:39 -0700 Received: (from flutefreak7@juno.com) by m22.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G7HGCXS5; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 02:50:03 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 02:39:16 -0400 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Double Illusion Message-ID: <20020712.024922.4208.0.flutefreak7@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-8,14-16 From: Brett N Ables Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey guys... I thought the spelling of delusion was wrong cause it looked funny, but the dictionary says it' just fine...what I found even more interesting was what else the dictionary had to say! Delusion- the act or process of deluding (go figure) Delude- to decieve the mind or judgement of Doesn't that sound so familiar! I just thought that word is so true to footbag cause I know I've thought my mind was being decieved before, and this is certainly a move worthy of the title! I know this is a big list, but I love words and this I had to share. Add it to your everyday vocabulary as well as your footbag lingo....if you can still distinguish the two that is! Pain is Temporary, Bables From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jul 14 12:33:06 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA17948 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 12:33:06 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:56:08 -0700 Received: from 128.214.157.200 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 17:56:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.214.157.200] From: "Samuli Viitanen" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] New top-notch freestyle shoe!!! Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 17:56:08 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2002 17:56:08.0866 (UTC) FILETIME=[BB931020:01C22B5F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello people! A new freestyle shoe has been found: Adidas' Cairo II (running shoe). Here's some highlights of the shoe (I'll try not to make this an adidas-commercial...): The shoe has a full length flat inside surface (into which the bag REALLY sticks to when stalling, it's much more better than in lavers on my opinion), it's cushioning (on heel & forefoot) & stability (torsion+full length medial support) are superb, it's lightweight and you can feel the bag on your toe as good as in lavers. The only *bad* thing is that you have to build a toe-box to the shoe. I personally am not using these shoes, but have tested them (because working in a sports good store). I really recommend all of you on this list (and those who are tired to the classical brick-lavers) to find a pair of these shoes and try a few stalls with them!! They are a really good option to the Millennium lavers. Over and out. -Samuli Viitanen, Finland From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jul 14 12:34:00 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA18002 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 12:34:00 -0700 Received: from I (dhcp212.llic.net [209.125.90.212]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA17999 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 12:33:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 12:33:58 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] New judging system to be used at Worlds 2002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, freestylers. This message is directed at players and potential judges who will be attending the world championships next month in San Francisco. Please read this if you are going to compete in open singles, women's singles, intermediate singles, open doubles, women's doubles, or mixed doubles freestyle. For those of you competing in other events (such as shred:30), these changes will not apply. First of all, I'd like to apologize for not getting this information out sooner. I realize a lot of you are concerned about a possible change this late in the game -- but please understand that this change should in theory have no impact on your routine itself. We are simply changing the way we implement the current competitive format, not changing the format. Secondly, please be aware that the decision is now final that this system (below) will be used at Worlds. We have tried it at Western Regionals and a couple of other tournaments, with good results, and feel confident that it will work well at Worlds. Also, understand that the IFC freestyle committee has not yet reviewed this new system, but we are hoping to get this system accepted into the official rulebook for use world-wide before the actual event. Thirdly, understand that Eric Wulff is the freestyle director for this event -- other than possibly being a judge myself, I am not on staff for the freestyle event. I am writing this as a member of the IFPA IFC rules committee because this is essentially the system I am proposing this year for adoption by the IFC into the official rule book. It is my sincere hope that this system will replace the various local systems used around the world, and simplify and improve the running of freestyle events in the future. (For the record, there are around 25 or 30 freestyle competitions per year around the world, and of those, only 1-3 of them use any of the current systems listed in the IFC rule book. I hope this will change with this new system.) Now, for the description of the new system: -- ------------------------------------------ Worlds 2002 Freestyle Judging System* ..or.. "No More Judging Assignments for Players!" General Overview ------------------------------------------ * Candidate IFPA Freestyle Judging System This system attempts to simplify the implementation of the existing IFPA judging system, as described in the IFC Rules of Footbag Sports. While the implementation of the system has changed, the fundamental requirements of players and judges has not. As defined in the IFC rule book, a "good" routine is a routine that combines all of the following four key elements: (1) presentation, (2) execution, (3) difficulty, and (4) variety. In previous implementations of the judging system, most of the measurement of difficulty and variety was formula-based, whereas the measurement of presentation was mostly subjective, and the measure of execution was relatively simplistic (drop count). Judges in previous systems were cogs in a larger machine, where any individual judges' score could affect the outcome, but the computation that ultimately led to the results was complex, and it was impossible to hold judges accountable. In this new system, judges are entirely accountable for the results -- and judge on a PURELY SUBJECTIVE BASIS along two dimensions: (1) TECHNICAL MERIT (embodying execution, difficulty, variety) and (2) ARTISTIC INTERPRETATION (embodying execution, variety, presentation). Scores, like in olympic figure scating, are assigned on a scale of 0 to 6 in each of the two categories above. Descriptions of these are below. The difference between this and previous systems is that judges must be "qualified" and must understand the fundamentals of a good routine as defined by the spirit of the rules in the IFC rule book, but otherwise, their scores are entirely subjective. This new system leads to more accountability for the judges, and a simpler implementation of the system. Judges are considered "staff members" at tournaments, and if a judge is consistently too different from his or her peers, he or she may not be considered for a judging position in the future. Worlds 2002 Judging: There will be 6 full-time, qualified judges per judging panel. Judges on these panels will *not* be competing in the events they're judging, and will be "on staff" as officials at the event. Furthermore, judges on each panel will be qualified to judge the particular event(s), not chosen at random from a larger pool. (I.e., experts at team freestyle will judge doubles, etc.) A given judging panel will judge the same event, EACH ROUND. For example: Open Singles Freestyle: judged by Judging Panel A Women's Singles Freestyle: Judging Panel B Intermediate Singles Freestyle: Judging Panel C Open Doubles Freestyle: Judging Panel D Women's Doubles Freestyle: Judging Panel E Mixed Doubles Freestyle: Judging Panel F It is quite likely that the same panel will judge two events (i.e., D = E = F) and even more likely that a single judge may sit on multiple panels. However, the panels themselves will remain unchanged from round to round. (I.e., Panel A will judge prelims, semifinals, and finals. The same well-qualified panel of expert judges, all three rounds. Judges will know in advance exactly what pools they are judging, will be considered staff members, and will be present for each event.) Most importantly -- PLAYERS WILL NOT HAVE TO JUDGE! The judges will judge on a purely subjective basis as above, and are expected to watch each routine in its entirety, without being distracted by counting or other administrative details. To make this possible, and still supply the judges with information they may desire to assign their scores, there will be several supporting staff members (counters): * time keeper * drop & trick-attempt counter (trick attempts = "contacts") * add counter(s) The drop count, add count, and add/contact ratio will be supplied instantly to each judge before he/she assigns a score. Judges will be discouraged from discussing routines with each other. Since this is a completely subjective judging system, this is the safest way to keep one judge from influencing the others, thereby keeping the judges "pure" and untainted by group dynamics. Furthermore, judges will not see each other's scores, until they have been presented to the audience/players. Judges will assign two scores, each based entirely on the judges' interpretation of the routine along each of the following dimensions, on a scale of 0 to 6: (note: the descriptions are just my words, not necessarily the official description of each raw numeric score) Technical Merit - the best combination of trick difficulty, trick variety, trick execution, and technical form. 0.0 = extremely poor (player incapable of technical play) 1.0 = poor (player has some technical ability, but not much) 2.0 = weak (player can hit some tricks, but lacks much skill) 3.0 = reasonable (player may not be extremely technical, but has control, does a few tricks very well, etc.) 4.0 = good (player demonstrates technical ability, good control, different types of tricks, etc.) 5.0 = very good (player demonstrates technical mastery, wide variety of difficult tricks, and/or very good execution of mastered tricks, etc.) 6.0 = perfect (player combines variety, difficulty, execution, and form into an outstanding technical routine). Artistic Interpretation - the best combination of artistic variety (style, individualism, etc.), presentation (choreography, audience appeal), and general form (confidence, execution, etc.). 0.0 = extremely poor (player incapable of artistry) 1.0 = poor (player has some artistic ability, but not much) 2.0 = weak (player is attempting performance, but lacks much skill) 3.0 = reasonable (player may not be extremely artistic, but has routine, focusses on audience, etc.) 4.0 = good (player demonstrates clear artistic ability, good audience appeal, unique style, good music, etc.) 5.0 = very good (player demonstrates artistic mastery, very good audience appeal, and/or very good composure and general form, etc.) 6.0 = perfect (player combines artistic variety, excellent presentation and choreography, and solid general form into an outstanding show). Calculation of Scores: As in figure skating, the two scores for each judge yield a ranking in the given category -- i.e., for a given judge, the result will be a ranking of all players by each of the two categories: technical merit and artistic interpretation. Once all the players have been ranked by each judge, those ranks for each player will be added together to yield a final score. The player with the lowest final score gets first place, the player with the next higher score gets second place, etc. NOTE: for those of you who follow figure skating, it's important to note that scores are NOT cumulative from round to round. The results from round 1 are used as usual for seeding round 2. The format of the event is not changing -- simply the way we arrive at the rankings at the end of each round. -- I hope this is helpful to people. We will discuss this more at the freestyle players' meeting, and for those folks who will be tapped to be official judges, we'll have an in-depth discussion of the system as well as a formal training and qualification session before the event. Also, freestylers should be aware that the schedule is different this year, and all competitors are required to check in by Monday evening. You will not be allowed to compete if you have not checked in or had someone check in for you on Monday. And all players must attend the official freestyle players' meeting on Tuesday evening. See the schedule on the Worlds website at http://www.footbag.org/worlds2002/ for details. Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jul 14 17:42:33 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA27774 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 17:42:33 -0700 Received: from [195.20.224.199] (helo=mrvdomng4.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom01.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 17TsPa-0001IQ-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:04:18 +0200 Received: from [194.29.253.86] (helo=x) by mrvdomng4.kundenserver.de with smtp (Exim 3.35 #2) id 17TsPZ-00064R-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:04:18 +0200 Message-ID: <003b01c22b93$e11bfd50$56fd1dc2@x> From: "Matthias Lino Schmidt" To: References: Subject: Re: [freestyle] New judging system to be used at Worlds 2002 Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:08:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org So far, so good. Really good, I might even say, this system totally makes sense to me... But one question remains: What if there aren't "6 full-time, qualified judges per judging panel" on the staff? What if the only persons who are present and might be as qualified as it's required do actually want to compete? In other words, what if there are simply no other judges than the players themselves? Not every tournament can afford several judging panels (or at least one) being paid to come, nor does the majority of the mentioned 25 to 30 freestyle competitions have a sufficient number of qualified players who are not competing. Take it into consideration or dump it, it's my 2 eeeuurroocents Matthias........ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Goldberg" To: Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 8:33 PM Subject: [freestyle] New judging system to be used at Worlds 2002 > Hi, freestylers. > > This message is directed at players and potential judges who will be > attending the world championships next month in San Francisco. Please > read this if you are going to compete in open singles, women's > singles, intermediate singles, open doubles, women's doubles, or > mixed doubles freestyle. For those of you competing in other events > (such as shred:30), these changes will not apply. .snip. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jul 14 21:09:25 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id VAA03140 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 21:09:25 -0700 Received: from I (dhcp212.llic.net [209.125.90.212]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA03137 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 21:09:25 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <003b01c22b93$e11bfd50$56fd1dc2@x> References: <003b01c22b93$e11bfd50$56fd1dc2@x> Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 21:09:22 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] New judging system to be used at Worlds 2002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:08 AM +0100 7/15/02, Matthias Lino Schmidt wrote: >In other words, what if there are simply no other judges than >the players themselves? Not every tournament can afford several judging >panels Matthias, Thanks for your comments. But, please understand -- the system described is only the *worlds* system. The general description of all the possibilities of how to implement this system, which is designed to accommodate smaller events with different levels of requirements, is still forthcoming. I wrote it all up and will present that larger version to the IFC -- but what I sent out today was specifically the version that we are going to use *this* time. To answer your question, though, there are several parameters that can be chosen by a tournament director. For one, a director may have as few as 4 judges. (That's what we used at Western Regionals.) Also, in smaller tournaments, the tournament director may choose to use players as judges -- it's not a requirement of the system that all judges must be "professional" (i.e., non-competitor staff members). You can still pick from players, but we have decided at *worlds* that we will not do this. Make sense? Just bear with me -- the longer version is written up and once more of the IFC members have had a chance to read it and comment on it, I don't want to publish the other details. Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jul 15 11:17:17 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA10355 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:17:17 -0700 Message-Id: <200207151817.LAA10355@llic.net> Received: from [165.117.39.38] by web11508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:28:49 PDT Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:28:49 -0700 (PDT) From: "R. Vincent Bradley" Reply-To: procrastan8r@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New judging system to be used at Worlds 2002 To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <200207142226.PAA24390@llic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Just to clarify and elaborate for any who were interested in how the old system worked, and how it didn't work well, read on. If nothing else, understanding the old system gave players a good system for developing a comprehensive routine. If a player knew what was being looked for in the cards of the old system they knew how to put together a quality routine for any judges in any system. > In previous implementations of the judging system, > most of the > measurement of difficulty and variety was > formula-based, whereas the > measurement of presentation was mostly subjective, > and the measure of > execution was relatively simplistic (drop count). This above description is something of a gloss-over. The old system had 30 points for single routines. up to 10 points came from variety cards- - a tenth of a point was awarded for a unique trick having an element of difficulty for Xbody (max 2.0, or 20 unique tricks), Body (2.0), Dexterity (2.0), Delay(3.0) and Unusual Surfaces (1.0). up to 10 points came from presentation judges - 3-5 judges were set up to score routines on various aspects of presentation for footbag performances, with suggestions for 5 areas worth 2 points each. The sum of the five scores per judge, or the judges final score, was then averaged with the other presentation judges scores to determine the final score for presentation points. 5 points were awrded for a dropless routine. - each drop had a quarter (0.25) point negative value on the final score fo the routine with a maximum penalty of 5 points lost (20 drops). 5 points maximum given for a raw difficulty score - determined as the sum of two numbers, this point total was created when it was easy to believe no one would ever keep their trick level at 3 adds for the majority of a routine, or to dial in more than 250 elements of difficulty. One number in the equation is the ratio of number of tricks divided by the total number of adds in all tricks for the routine (add/trick-contact ratio), the other number is the total number of adds hit for all tricks divided by 100. This last category has seen some notion of controversy in the past few years since its become relatively commonplace for finalists at worlds to hit enough tricks to break the 5 point limit on difficulty. The question naturally arises as to what could be done to repair that, but a more important thread is what should be done to the entire system since it was created with a specific balance of these four attributes for the quality of a routine. Great displays of technical skill, or difficulty, may not create the best possible presentation of what a freestyle performance can be, and the oppposite is also true. The system in its simplest interpretation says Difficulty and Execution must be equally weighted since they have the same amount of points. Variety and Presentation are similarly equal. Examining the notions of Variety and Presentation, it's obvious there are ties to the other two categories- hitting a large variety of moves is more difficult than not doing so, and hitting a strong presentation obviously requires good execution. Changing the point values in any one or two portions of the system increases their "weight" in the notion of what defines a quality freestyle routine. In the past 7 years there has been much said about how the judging system fails, but the only point of contention ever analayzed has been its assessment of difficulty, or variety. I have been one of the complainers, and my efforts to understand more about what was originally conceived by the jduging systems inventors only yields respect. Anyone remember Dan Kramer? I hope so. He gave a thorough analysis of the failings of the systems difficulty/variety cards, specifically exemplifying how hitting difficult unique moves that have questionable add counts ( difficult 3s versus easy 4s) are not rewarded well enough in this old system. And it is true there is little reward; the amount of points awarded per unique move on the cards compared with an entire routine is at most one tenth of a point, and the negative points applied for a drop is more than twice that amount. On the dexterity and delay cards, a butterfly delay and an eggbeater are worth the same amount of points, even though there are two dexterities in an eggbeater, and the butterfly scores an additional tenth of a point on the XBody card. Even more ironic in this thread is what actually became important in routines at the highest levels was the Unusual Surface category- it was the one category that was not consistently maxed out by any of the top players. Essentially, if you couldn't beat your opponents in the subjective presentation categories, your only option to stand out was to beat them in difficulty or variety, and the easiest route to do that was through Unusual Surfaces. This is potentially attributable to the system not having adapted to the evolution of freestyle techniques away from unusual surfaces, towards more easily linked moves. I personally am glad that the old system, in this case, stayed "behind the times". Nothing is more frustrating to me than seeing a future of anything grow specialized, in limited direction, instead of expanding its grounds for exploration. Granted, using unusual surfaces pretty much sucks if you want to link, but it sucks because its hard. While this difficulty may not be reflected in the old systems evaluation of difficulty, the judges know and can weigh it into their scores for presentation. Maybe the problem in the old system was the variety judges weren't given room for subjectivity. In any case, I'm not intending to imply the old system is the better choice for judging freestyle at Worlds 2002. I've done that enough to know the benefits of the new system. I see it as a great thing that a new system will be tried out- the other thing I hate seeing is a growth progression that never gets questioned, or tested. But I figured some of the new players might want to check out the old system for what it can teach about putting together winning routines. And as much as it may be considered a dead topic, I would still like to see a discussion about the old judging system- up until now I've only seen complaints about how it doesn't respect current trends in difficulty, linking, and specific technical skills, and very little discussion as to how the system actually works or does not work overall. I've also seen the current trend to develop more technically oriented formats for competition. Even Phat Trick seems to lean more towards a technical format, and I doubt that was Kramers intent for his original IFC proposed idea. Though this is more likely the state of mind of the judges than an actual flaw in the format, where "more difficulty" = "better", or "phatter". In my mind there are things that are arguably more difficult, but inarguably "phat". Like Gimpy set- StallBerger-finish moves. just some of my two cents, kick a bag your friendly neighborhood IFPA Freestyle Statistician Vince Bradley From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jul 15 11:18:19 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA10464 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:18:19 -0700 Received: from [198.202.67.129] (198.202.67.129) by ems.salk.edu (Worldmail 1.3.167) for freestyle@footbag.org; 15 Jul 2002 09:03:41 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:03:48 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Cameron Kennedy Subject: Re: [freestyle] New top-notch freestyle shoe!!! Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >A new freestyle shoe has been found: Adidas' Cairo II (running shoe). I have kicked in these, they work, really well. I prefer the addidas boston 2002 running shoe. Also great shoes, are the addidas supernova series, I have used both the cushion and support models with great success. All of these are shaped well, but outsole materials and tread patterns make slight differences which I guess are player preference. Here is another shoe which I disliked as much as the millenium. If you like the millenium, you will like this shoe. Basically a canvas millenium from new balance. Better outsole, better color options, lower price, widespread availability, heavier weight. http://www.holabirdsports.com/cgi-bin/product?product=110380&group=5 cameron From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jul 15 11:26:53 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA11560 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:26:53 -0700 Received: from cr976763a ([24.157.135.70]) by fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.06 201-253-122-126-106-20020509) with ESMTP id <20020715123347.MCX334399.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@cr976763a> for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:33:47 -0400 Message-ID: <01a101c22bfb$9addad80$46879d18@glph.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> From: "Will Little" <242little@rogers.com> To: Subject: [freestyle] Kickers in Brantford? Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:31:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.157.135.70] using ID <242little@rogers.com> at Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:33:47 -0400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Are there any freestylers out there in Brantford, Ontario? I am going to be on a course there for the next few weeks, and would love to find someone to kick with during the hour they force me to take for lunch! Will From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jul 15 11:42:39 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA13384 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:42:39 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 00:19:03 -0700 Received: from 203.96.130.210 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:19:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [203.96.130.210] From: "Andrew Newport" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Paradox moves from toe Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:19:03 +1200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jul 2002 07:19:03.0525 (UTC) FILETIME=[E5E8A950:01C22BCF] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. I was wondering.... All the paradox moves i've ever seen are all set from clipper. However... My friend does toe set swirl, and if he went to a same mirage from that would that movement warrant a paradox add? The jobs goes Toe(del)>op swirl(dex)>same in(dex)(pdx???)>op toe(del) Shred on, Andy From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jul 15 15:51:00 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA26801 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:51:00 -0700 Received: from I (dhcp212.llic.net [209.125.90.212]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA26798 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:50:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200207151817.LAA10355@llic.net> References: <200207151817.LAA10355@llic.net> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:50:58 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] New judging system to be used at Worlds 2002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 7:28 AM -0700 7/15/02, R. Vincent Bradley wrote: >In the past 7 years there has been much said about how >the judging system fails, Woah. I think you misread me. I am and have been one of the biggest advocates of the "old" system. The system definitely yields good results! Nothing I said in my e-mail meant to imply that the current official system was not good at arriving at the results. HOWEVER, it does have problems. Most important among them is that almost nobody uses it. I believe this is because it was complicated and overly burdensome on players and organizers. Again -- the problem which I am trying to address with this new system is not in the results. It's in the complexity of implementing the system (you need 13-15 judges, each needing to be trained on their specific card, for one thing, not to mention the software to compute the results which only a few people really understand.) And the proof is in the pudding... Only 2 events a year ever used the old system. So, it wasn't much of a system. Just for the record and to be clear, I'm proposing this new system as an alternative to, not a replacement for the current system. I am not saying we should abolish the old one. I'm saying tournament organizers should have a choice of systems to use, rather than the current all-or-nothing we have today. And for those of you who are aware of the "ranked-component" alternative judging system in the IFC rule book, what I am proposing is not *that* different from that system -- it's just that I'm giving that system a shot in the arm and a little better definition (I think). Anyway, thanks Vince for the detailed explanation of the other system. Regardless of which system is used, a winning routine should be a winning routine. Nothing in this new system changes what the judges should be looking for in a good routine. Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jul 15 17:55:43 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA31536 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:55:43 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:29:38 -0700 Received: from 65.94.120.218 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:29:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.94.120.218] Reply-To: yax@footbag.org From: "Yacine Merzouk" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Montreal Summer Challenge Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:29:37 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jul 2002 00:29:38.0064 (UTC) FILETIME=[DE2A8900:01C22C5F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yo! This is Yacine writing from Montreal about the tournament last week-end. It was the bomb. Over 20 shredders showed up from out of town. We had over 100 people in the crowd on both days. It all started with a party on Thursday night. On Friday Sebastien Duchesne scorched the competition in the 30 seconds shred - with a score of 161 he beat his closest competitor by 25 points. After the competition we had a shred session. Ken Somolinos proceeded to hit and seal paradox-symposium-torque. I'm still baffled. On Saturday everybody stepped up and did better than they did on Friday but Sebastien Stood tall and beat everybody again in shred! Then the crowd had the chance to witness great routines by Mr. Piltz, Mr. Bevier and yours truly. Later on: shred and party of course! On Sunday we were lucky enough to have great weather and had a day-long shred at the Tam-Tam Jam. Great kickers, a good crowd and cheap beer made the Summer Challenge a succes. Here are some results. The complete results will be on footbag.org soon. Be there next year. Open Shred30 1. Sebastien Duchesne, Montreal 2. Scott Bevier, Erie PA 3. Yacine Merzouk, Montreal Open Routines 1. Yacine Merzouk, Montreal, QC 2. Scott Bevier, Erie, PA 3. Eli Piltz, Montreal, QC Intermediate Shred30 1. Ryan Betchinski, Montreal, QC 2. Olivier Berthiaume, Montreal, QC 3. James McCullough, Montreal, QC Intermediate Routines T-1. Caroline Bourgoin, Montreal, QC T-1. Ted Fritsch, New York, NY 3. Arron Tennant, Waterloo, ON See you all in San Francisco! -Yacine Merzouk yax@footbag.org Shred! From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jul 16 20:18:55 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA26780 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 20:18:55 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:16:21 -0700 Received: from 66.183.196.136 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:16:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.183.196.136] From: "Jeff Lopes" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Torque-Dyno moves Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:16:20 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jul 2002 19:16:21.0035 (UTC) FILETIME=[44AD47B0:01C22CFD] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, At the shred zero tournament in calgary I hit a pdx torque ending in dyno, pdx torquescrew, and since them I have hit a bunch more of these types of moves. I want to name them, but please infringe if they have been done....or if move name already exists for something else.... pdx torquescrew - ripcurl gravedigger dyno - dirk diggler blurry torque dyno - riptide mobius ending in dyno - already moby dick I believe Jeff Lopes From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jul 16 20:20:56 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA26830 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 20:20:56 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:52:31 -0700 Received: from 161.184.28.242 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:52:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.28.242] From: "Dylan Livingston" To: andyjay_@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox moves from toe Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:52:30 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jul 2002 18:52:31.0016 (UTC) FILETIME=[F051B280:01C22CF9] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >My friend does toe set swirl, and if he went to a same mirage from that >would that movement warrant a paradox add? I'm under the impression that paradox moves are the only moves that are affected by the set of the move. It seems to me that this set puts the bag in position for a paradox move, since you have to cross your body to reach the bag. In my opinion, this does deserve a pdx add. Anyone care to mess with the rules? Dylan Livingston From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jul 16 20:27:38 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA27062 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 20:27:38 -0700 Received: from pd2mr4so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr4so-ser.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.107]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GZD009AVA7PQQ@l-daemon> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml6so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml6so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.150]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GZD007B3A7PFA@l-daemon> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a1.footbag.org (h24-70-216-74.gv.shawcable.net [24.70.216.74]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GZD00LNLA7OOK@l-daemon> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:18:59 -0700 From: Allan Haggett Subject: Re: [freestyle] Twirl V. Swivel X-Sender: dizzy@shawmail To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <5.1.1.6.0.20020716171448.00a14cb0@shawmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Just when you thought it was dead :-) For the record: Rippin' Rick Reese invented "Swivel" at the 1993 World Footbag Championship's. It was a Reverse Swirling Op. Osis. I'm still wondering what a Twirl is.... Allan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jul 16 22:11:27 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id WAA31204 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:11:27 -0700 Message-Id: <200207170511.WAA31204@llic.net> Received: from [209.48.222.22] by web11502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 21:43:26 PDT Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 21:43:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "R. Vincent Bradley" Reply-To: procrastan8r@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New judging system to be used at Worlds 2002 To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <200207162226.PAA15054@llic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Cool, looks like the discussion is getting started, though I had hoped to focus on the old system, and how it did work or didn't work. I definitely was not questioning the value of trying out a new system. Sorry if it seemed like that, Steve. I'm actually just interested in making sure the old system is understood, or is available for those who want to learn from it when making routines. The only flaw I see in the new system is it doesn't impart knowledge on the competitors or the audience as to what makes a great freestyle routine. It leaves such definitions to the minds of its judges. Watching Olympic judged events, what do I learn about what makes the first place routines worthy of first place? Not a whole lot, and if I had to listen to sports announcers to learn more, I'd probably choose ignorance. I do see what they like the best, but i learn nothing about the components they judge in a tangible, or easily described form. Granted the results will impart some knowledge, but the old system had a distinct advantage in that each year at worlds, every judge got the chance to see how all other players fulfilled certain aspects of the judging system, to read and discuss each judging card, and participate in a freestyle judging training session. As much of a pain as all this may have seemed, it was a great way for players to learn about putting together quality routines. Admittedly I'm not sure many people saw or see it that way... I remember it being one of the greatest experiences at my first worlds. Granted, at the time I remember thinking it was an excruciatingly long day in a gym... <- insert flashback hokiness here -> Back then we had partnered judging systems and they ran in waves. Pools were <- gasp -> interleaved. Newbies learned from veterans while judging routines in different pools. It made everything take a lot longer (painfully, incredibly, much longer), but I learned to judge ( and consequently "choreograph" performances ) from some freestyle legends- Dennis & Becca Ross, Derrick Fogle, Reed Gray, Ken Shults, Sam Conlon, Rick Reese... people who, at the time, I would only likely interact with while judging at a World Championships. Even if I played footbag golf... ;-) Additionally, I am concerned that if no one knows what the old system did well or didn't do well, then it will be difficult to progress from it. With 15-20 years invested in using it, abandoning it completely seems like a very flawed plan. Especially when it seemed to work fairly consistently well for those years. Of course, by trying a new system we aren't abandoning the old one. Even so, we do end up abandoning the system's benefits for this one year. Unless steps are taken to keep them around- like starting up a discussion about what it tried to accomplish... As for its problems, it's easy to claim the old system is a burden and easy to see it is imposing as a system for small events. I was wrong when I said the only discussion about the judging system seemed to be directed at how it failed to assess difficulty and variety in a manner that reflected the current trends of technical prowess in the players. I have also heard a lot over the past 8 years about how the system is too bulky, requires too many participants/"volunteers" and is too complex. However, similar to the arguments of the system failing to appropriately address a quality routine for not fully addressing modern aspects of difficulty, I haven't heard much to support any of these claims. The system does require a number of people. Why? So each job becomes less complex. The system is too complex? It definitely doesn't need software. I'm guessing that was implemented to try and speed up the process. Recent years show the slowness was attributable mostly to using an interleaved format, and most recently by not using a calculator to tabulate adds. Eric is the man. He use technology. The past 8 years I've assisted in running freestyle at worlds, I've always spot-checked that the calculations the software made were correct. Granted I didn't always do this well (call me distracted)- but I was capable of doing it well fairly easily. To do this I had to be able to calculate the scores myself. Its not rocket science, it just tcls. So its not complex enough to need the software, though having the software does make presenting the informtion much easier than using my ill handwriting with writers cramp. Anyone can make the calculations to find out who got closest to the 30 maximum points, once they know where the numbers come from. And with one of them new fangled calculators, it gets even easier. Eric GOOOD. He bring technology. So is the old system too complex? Ask a judge. Last year it ran well, very well, and the judges actually seemed for the most part to be glad to be a part of the process. That really floored me, and it was awesome. Once again huge thanks to the 2001 World Championships judges. Ask any one of them if their job was too complex. I think its far more likely they will say it was too boring, or limiting. Then have them judge in the new system. And ask them if that is simpler. Granted this year we will have experienced judges that Know Their Stuff Real Good. I honestly have no doubts. And I could probably qualify to be one of these individuals ( I honestly don't think its a good idea ), but I can definitely say I'd rather count dexterities, or discuss presentation aspects, or even count adds in my head ( and that actually hurts sometimes. Thank you Rick ;-) ), then try to decide which routine is best in the Worlds finals while scoring all aspects of a routine. Give me just presentation, I might have some trouble, but I can find all the pieces that I can fit in my head and see who did what best. Give me just technical aspects, and I can determine which parts each player did well and not so well. I learned all these parts and pieces from the cards and fellow judges in the old system. Ask me to do both and I will tell you that that is complicated. Especially If I end up having to compare a technical performance with a well-presented performance. Which is better, the perfect apple, or the perfect orange? If someone performs the perfect juice cocktail my job might be easier, but I've been in the position choosing the apple or the orange, and it is hard. It is definitely not simple. To me its decisions like this that result necessarily in biased judging practices- having to make a decision in a time constraint that decides the results. Time constraints effect quality judging. As for the old system being too bulky, thats not as much a problem with the system as it might be a problem with attendance, or with training volunteers. Obviously all tournaments need more players, and more volunteers. Anyone who hasn't gone to an event yet, please do, even when you volunteer to take on what seem like headaches its a good enough party to want to do it again the following year. Think about that. I've run East Coast for 8 years now, and I'm still doing it, eager for next years 20th anniversary. Hope you can make it. Nothing like inviting a ton of footbag family to your house to party for a weekend. How many people are necessary for judging the old system? Last year had 5 variety cards judges, 3 presentation judges, and 2 more judges for adds and contacts. A timer counted drops, and dj did double duty on timing, adds typer did double duty on drops, add caculator tape ( Eric GOOOOD ) did quadruple duty for checking add contacts, adds and dropped add contacts. If its a team event, 3 more judges added for team cards. So it takes 12-15 judges total including the timer, 14-17 if you count the dj and an independent head judge to coordinate the whole judging staff. How many of these players have to be expertly skilled at recognizing distinct aspects of freestyle? 1 add counter, 3-4 variety judges. (5th is unusual surfaces). Throw in 1 expert presentation judge, and 1 expert team-style judge to educate newbies if necessary for those cards. So the old system needs at most 7 experts. Of these six experts, how many of them have to be able to discern high level quality for a complete routine in all aspects? Zero. As for the system not being used widely enough, its not like my local yokels in gymnastics can expect world class judges to declare who wins their competitions. Olympic quality judging only happens at the Olympics, and maybe one or two other international events in the year. Just like the old freestyle judging system. True, this isn't based on a system of judging, but instead on the available quality of the judges. Some systems require highly skilled judges, some do not. The new system could technically be done by anybody, but I do see it as much more dependent on veteran judging expertise. So while it may not require someone who can count adds, or spot different moves in a routine, it requires a much more comprehensive view of what defines a quality freestyle routine. It also requires the judge to be able to make astute distinctions in observations and opinions relatively quickly. The old system required more people, because it simplified the tasks to make it possible for quick and effective judging by making their jobs less complex. As important as it may be to keep a system running smoothly, I'd say that emphasizing running the events quicker has negative effects, and these effects are likely to be magnified in systems like the new one. The old system was held up time-wise by presentation scores. Sometimes it was because of disagreement, or discussion, but more often than not it was simply the imposed agony of having to make the decision who was best. Especially during finals. With the experts on staff this year, maybe this won't be a problem. And if the system imposes a minimum discussion ideology, maybe it will have a better chance ( tho I've been a presentation judge where a little talk helped things gel faster, even without the imposition of bias ) at saving time. The imposed use of "throw away" scores (highest and lowest thrown out), will cause the old problem of having scores in relative agreement to disappear, and that also may save time. But will saving time actually help the quality of judging? I am looking forward to finding out. once again, the per-ramble-8ing Freestyle Statistician Vincent From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jul 16 22:15:40 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id WAA31394 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:15:40 -0700 Received: from MatthewL329@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id z.d5.1a4a5193 (16112); Wed, 17 Jul 2002 00:45:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m02.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.130]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v86_r1.16) with ESMTP id MAILINID124-0717004548; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 00:45:48 -0400 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 00:45:47 -0400 From: "Matthew Cross" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Torque-Dyno moves Message-ID: <5A0F6B9D.6B39BCFA.4E19C3A4@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dear jeff and all... <> Riptide is ripwalk swirl, to my knowledge. Awesome names, awesome moves... wish I was crazy rich so I could have been at shred zero... matthew cross rochester footbag association From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jul 16 22:32:40 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id WAA31895 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:32:40 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:05:07 -0700 Received: from 63.105.21.223 by sea2fd.sea2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:05:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.105.21.223] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Torque-Dyno moves Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:05:07 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2002 05:05:07.0808 (UTC) FILETIME=[85130E00:01C22D4F] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jeff Lopes wrote: >At the shred zero tournament in calgary I hit a pdx torque ending in dyno, >pdx torquescrew, and since them I have hit a bunch more of these types of >moves. I want to name them, but please infringe if they have been >done....or if move name already exists for something else.... I've been hitting this for a while I actually poured through the archives to find my orriginal letter: From: "Andrew McCargar" Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:12:08 GMT "... I also managed to hit paradox miraging dino, or paradox torquescrew, as you like it. I tried and failed to hit it blurry (wouldn't that be 7 worthless adds?) but I did hit it stepping, although in all honisty the last dex was more refraction like than dino like. Has anyone ever hit/seen either of these? ... I want to call the paradox version "spinal graft" because it kind of feels like someone's hiting your spine with a jackhammer while you do it." I never got any replies other than props at the time, so there you have it. I've since hit it blurry, although I don't know how clean the third dex was. >blurry torque dyno - riptide Last I checked riptide was a stepping opp butterfly swirl. But come to think of it, I've also seen several moves renamed several times over the last year, so who really knows anymore. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jul 17 20:05:30 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA27427 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:05:30 -0700 Received: from web.de (fmomail02.dlan.cinetic.de [172.20.1.46]) by mailgate5.cinetic.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.0-0.4) with SMTP id g6HBUOX26488 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:30:28 +0200 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:30:28 +0200 Message-Id: <200207171130.g6HBUOX26488@mailgate5.cinetic.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Organization: http://freemail.web.de/ From: Daniel Neufeld To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Rod Laver Update?! Precedence: fm-user Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Anybody knows anything about this shoe? did adidas do an update of the Rod Laver? http://thestore.adidas.com/cgi-bin/adilive/b2c/index.w?location=b2c%2Fproduct-originals.w%3Fsport%3Dorigin%26style%3D25158 keep on kickin' dan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jul 17 20:13:08 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA27748 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:13:08 -0700 Received: (cpmta 26305 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2002 23:40:41 -0700 Received: from 64.194.176.97 (HELO GhostPirate) by smtp.directvinternet.com (209.228.33.242) with SMTP; 16 Jul 2002 23:40:41 -0700 X-Sent: 17 Jul 2002 06:40:41 GMT Message-ID: <000c01c22d5c$dfb88c10$61b0c240@GhostPirate> From: "Chris Pinkus" To: References: Subject: [freestyle] Symposium Moves Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 23:40:42 -0700 Organization: GhostPirate.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I also hit some new moves recently. I'm not sure if these have been hit either. double symposium atom smasher - atom bomb symposium tapping symposium eggbeater - bill and ted's excellent adventure atomic symposium eggbeater (backside symp bladerunner) - word up Chris Pinkus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Lopes" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:16 PM Subject: [freestyle] Torque-Dyno moves > Hey all, > > At the shred zero tournament in calgary I hit a pdx torque ending in dyno, > pdx torquescrew, and since them I have hit a bunch more of these types of > moves. I want to name them, but please infringe if they have been > done....or if move name already exists for something else.... > > pdx torquescrew - ripcurl > gravedigger dyno - dirk diggler > blurry torque dyno - riptide > mobius ending in dyno - already moby dick I believe > > Jeff Lopes From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jul 18 00:29:05 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id AAA05416 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:29:05 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 23:48:24 -0700 Received: from 63.60.196.63 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:48:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.60.196.63] From: "Jeremy O'Wheel" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] History Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:48:24 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jul 2002 06:48:24.0554 (UTC) FILETIME=[1D0934A0:01C22E27] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, I'm doing a bit of a research assignment in Chemistry about genetically engineering a perfect footbagger and I was wondering if anyone can tell me about the history of freestyle footbag. Any other tips or comments would also be greatly appreciated. Thanks alot and keep shredding! Jeremy O From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jul 18 14:23:51 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA04597 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:23:51 -0700 Message-Id: <200207182123.OAA04597@llic.net> Received: from [12.228.92.99] by web12804.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:23:03 PDT Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:23:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Baker Subject: [freestyle] Worlds Workshops and YOU! To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Everybody!! Alex Zerbe and I are organizing Footbag and Juggling Workshops at the World Footbag Championships this year and we need your help. The schedule is shaping up nicely but we need a few people to commit to teaching a half and hour workshop on either Beginning Footbag or Beggining 3 Ball Juggling. If you are willing to contribute to this years Worlds, volunteer to teach one of these workshops. If you are interested, write me back with the days you are going to be in attendance and available to teach. Also if you think you have something else to bring to the table other than Beginning Footbag or Beginning juggling let us know so we can try to fit you into the schedule. Some of the workshops are already posted on the Worlds site. http://www.footbag.org/worlds2002/ We look forward to hearing from you ASAP! Thanks, Matt Baker and Alex Zerbe Brothers From Different Mothers http://www.brothersFDM.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jul 18 14:24:51 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA04633 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:24:51 -0700 Received: from [195.20.224.214] (helo=mrvdomng2.kundenserver.de) by moutvdomng1.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 17VC7q-0001c8-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:19:26 +0200 Received: from [194.29.253.120] (helo=x) by mrvdomng2.kundenserver.de with smtp (Exim 3.35 #2) id 17VC7p-0002ey-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:19:26 +0200 Message-ID: <004401c22e6f$435078b0$3efd1dc2@x> From: "Matthias Lino Schmidt" To: References: <200207171130.g6HBUOX26488@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Rod Laver Update?! Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:24:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Right on, I was going to report about this anyway. In the "adidas Originals Store" in the center of Berlin, the Rod Laver shoe is now being sold in six (!) variants: Red ("burgundy"), Silver (looks more like Grey, though), Olive (I didn't see this on the website) and the well-known white ones with either blue or green soles. Furthermore, they have a leather version, which you can also find on the adidas website. The colored edition are 90 Euro a pair, the white ones cost 80 Euros. The newly colored Lavers are called the "Lifestyle" edition, but they don't seem to be different from any other China-Lavers. They just look a little better, IMO. Adios, Matthias......... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Neufeld" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:30 PM Subject: [freestyle] Rod Laver Update?! > Anybody knows anything about this shoe? did adidas do an update of the Rod Laver? > > http://thestore.adidas.com/cgi-bin/adilive/b2c/index.w?location=b2c%2Fproduc t-originals.w%3Fsport%3Dorigin%26style%3D25158 > > keep on kickin' > > dan > From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jul 18 14:25:59 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA04684 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:25:59 -0700 Received: from web.de (fmomail02.dlan.cinetic.de [172.20.1.46]) by mailgate5.cinetic.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.0-0.4) with SMTP id g6I9YnX17552 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:34:49 +0200 Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:34:49 +0200 Message-Id: <200207180934.g6I9YnX17552@mailgate5.cinetic.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Organization: http://freemail.web.de/ From: Daniel Neufeld To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Rod Laver Update?! Precedence: fm-user Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org for everyone for whom the link doesnt work: go to: www.thestore.adidas.com. go to search>rod laver. you will find nice burgundy/white or silver/white ones. are they an update of the originals? anybody know anything? greets dan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jul 21 11:10:17 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA31825 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:10:17 -0700 Received: from I (dhcp212.llic.net [209.125.90.212]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA31822 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:10:16 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004401c22e6f$435078b0$3efd1dc2@x> References: <200207171130.g6HBUOX26488@mailgate5.cinetic.de> <004401c22e6f$435078b0$3efd1dc2@x> Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:10:13 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Rod Laver Update?! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org It appears the burgundy Lavers are not yet really shipping in the U.S. since nobody can get them until around September 1. I have one pair on back-order through the WFA. And for the record, most of the sites people are referring to sell Lavers for more than they are currently available at the WFA's online store, http://worldfootbag.com/catman/show/199 -- only $48.95 which is significantly less than the other online sites people are talking about. If you want a special order, try calling WFA directly and seeing what they can do. They work directly with Adidas, and whenever orders are placed *through* WFA, it helps Adidas understand that these are footbag-related purchases. If you buy through some other random source, you're just spreading our money around so thinly that nobody will know we represent a huge and growing group of consumers. Also, note that WFA's on-line catalog is now a "secure site" for those of you who were afraid to use it before. Steve P.S. Just a reminder, WFA is not IFPA. They are two separate organizations. http://www.footbag.org is the website of IFPA, not of WFA (http://worldfootbag.com). From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jul 22 00:27:44 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id AAA05129 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:27:44 -0700 From: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Received: "Cody Allsup" by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id z.a7.23c98ba1 (4329) for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:44:02 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Hackers In Florida To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_a7.23c98ba1.2a6ccb72_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP US sub 50 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello All, I have emailed a Few people and I have gotten either no response or their email wasn't right. So here is my question. Does anyone in the area or that is close to niceville florida hack? I desperatly need someone to hack with. I have hacked for a little while and I think I am doing decently. Please email me privately. Cody Allsup --part1_a7.23c98ba1.2a6ccb72_boundary-- From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jul 24 01:29:55 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA23282 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 01:29:55 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #30560) id <0GZQ03301EIJ79@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 20:20:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #30560) with ESMTP id <0GZQ032CKEII8E@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 20:20:42 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:59:10 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] Silver Lavers To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3D3324BA@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Just to let ya'll know, I got my Silver Lavers today. They are exactly like the white ones except cooler looking. The weight is the same and they feel the same and everything. Can't wait to break'em in. Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jul 24 19:25:11 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA12901 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:25:11 -0700 Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:35:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88061B7ADD@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Riefer, Robert" To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] New Jersey Freestyle jam (near NYC) 07/28/2002 Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:34:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On behalf of Pauley O'Reilly and Matt Isanuk, I'm just letting everyone know of a little shred session that's happening this weekend in Red Bank, NJ 07701. What: Impromptu shred get together Who: NJ shredders, Philly Footworks members, Some NYC shredders.. whoever else shows. Date: Sunday 07/28/2002 Time: 2:00 p.m. - ? Accomodations: Riverside Gardens Park Note: There is not shelter from rain, but the weather looks like it's supposed to be nice this weekend. Contact information: Pauley O'Reilly - 732-741-2448 or Matt Isanuk - 732-530-0756 **Directions** >From Garden State Parkway heading *North* Exit 109 Stay straight at bottom of ramp onto Half Mile Road. Go to T in the road and go right onto West Front Street Riverside Garden Park is down on your left after going through about 4 lights. You'll recognize the park by the arches and sculptures in front. Parking is available by turning right at the first light (and then by turning right onto the next street) once you pass the venue. Parking is free. **** >From GSP heading *South* Exit 109 Stay in the left lanes.. This will dump you onto route 520. Left onto Route 35/Broad Street (You'll be returning to this street to park, but it's easier for you to drive past the venue first to see where it is) Left onto Front Street. Riverside Garden Park will be on your right. Once you've seen where the venue is, turn around... Parking is available by turning right at the first light (and then by turning right onto the next street) once you pass the venue. Parking is free. **** Please direct questions to the contacts listed above.. I'm not running the event, just helping out by getting the information to everyone. Thanks! Bob Riefer Philly Footworks From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jul 24 19:28:43 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA13002 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:28:43 -0700 Received: from 24-205-70-106.gln-res.charterpipeline.net ([24.205.70.106] helo=2np9x01) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17XNAU-0004hV-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:31:10 -0700 Message-ID: <003301c2331e$7d637260$6a46cd18@charterpipeline.net> From: "Sam Colclough" To: Subject: [freestyle] New Footbag Video Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:29:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org There is a new shred video out called Sessions. It highlights OOPS! in the last 6 months It was done in a media 101 class in college so there is some nice digital editing. It stars Chad D Chris Pinkus Bryan Fournier Myself Eric Windsor and some amateur skaters some highlights are scorpians tail > blurry drifter by chad a both side symposium atom smasher (atom bomb) backside symposium blade runner (word up) and stampeding sympsoium eggbeater (bill and teds excellent adventure) all by chris pinkus... i hit some toe stalls. there is also coverage of the E3 gaming event that was in Los Angeles, and our shred there. total running time is somewhere in between 35 and 40 minutes. there are some skits and a dj did the entire soundtrack (but its not all techno) for ordering information please e-mail sam@footbag.org privately thanks a bunch!!! -samurai From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jul 24 21:20:27 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id VAA17538 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:20:27 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #30560) id <0GZR06701PCFHJ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:12:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #30560) with ESMTP id <0GZR066OGPCFR7@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:12:15 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:50:42 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: [freestyle] Moving to New York To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <3D3387EC@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well the Wife and I are making a big move to New York next Tuesday. I'll be about 90 miles north of NYC in a town called New Paltz, and within 5 hours of every major East Coast Tournament. The kicking will be lonely in New Paltz so I'll be looking forward to getting in touch with the east coast crowd. I've updated my member profile at footbag.org with my new address and my phone will be there by this weekend. My e-mail will stay the same for a little while and I'll update it when the time comes. East Coast Rules (I Hope) Brad Kaplan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jul 25 11:37:14 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA12283 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:37:14 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:39:47 -0700 Received: from 212.2.163.54 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:39:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [212.2.163.54] Reply-To: impax@joecrain.com From: "Joseph Crain" To: freestyle@list.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Silver Lavers Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:39:47 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jul 2002 12:39:47.0985 (UTC) FILETIME=[5CA1B810:01C233D8] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ive had my Silver Lavers 2 weeks and they are ... well ... pretty neat. I bought them in Berlin at an Adidas outlet. I also had the choice of red, blue and plain ol' white... >Just to let ya'll know, I got my Silver Lavers today. They are exactly >like >the white ones except cooler looking. The weight is the same and they feel >the same and everything. > Can't wait to break'em in. > > Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jul 25 21:45:35 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id VAA03435 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:45:35 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:12:13 -0700 Received: from 66.32.224.207 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 04:12:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.32.224.207] Reply-To: KenSomolinos@footbag.org From: "Ken Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Japan Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:12:13 +0900 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jul 2002 04:12:13.0791 (UTC) FILETIME=[9EEE3EF0:01C2345A] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey shredders, I'll be in Japan for one to two years. E-mail me if you feel like visiting or if you know anybody who plays in Japan. Have fun at worlds, Ken Somolinos From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jul 26 22:21:17 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id WAA23656 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:21:17 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:25:31 -0700 Received: from 209.53.225.56 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 03:25:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.53.225.56] From: "Jonathan Zaleski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Swirling Stuff Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:25:31 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jul 2002 03:25:31.0582 (UTC) FILETIME=[4318D5E0:01C2351D] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Shredders, I hit Diving Swirl today,and paradon swirl last night, and i was wondering what other swirl and butterfly swirl stuff has been hit. I know paradon, double over down, ddd, and barfly swirl have all been hit so technically wouldnt it be possible to hit like scorpions tail swirl or like bullwhip swirl. I had pixie mobius on my foot too and was wondering if anyone else has tried or has hit that move. Go Big or Go Home, Jonzy From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat Jul 27 12:23:16 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA14513 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:23:16 -0700 Message-Id: <200207271923.MAA14513@llic.net> Received: from [65.92.244.250] by web11607.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:07:22 PDT Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:07:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellis Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Ripwalk World Premiere To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Where the Ripwalk Ends, the new movie by Flipsider Films, will have its World Premiere Screening this August 7th at the World Championships in San Francisco. Be there and see the movie on the big screen for the first time ever! Then pick up a copy of your own to enjoy the magic again, and again. In the mean time, you can check out some highlights from the video at Ripwalk.com, plus player bios, and a whole lot more. Get all the Details at http://www.ripwalk.com/ Enjoy!, Ellis Piltz & Flipsider From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jul 30 12:10:04 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA28132 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 12:10:04 -0700 Message-Id: <200207301910.MAA28132@llic.net> Received: from [165.117.39.38] by web11507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:51:15 PDT Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:51:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "R. Vincent Bradley" Reply-To: procrastan8r@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] millenium sizes versus classic laver sizes To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Please respond to me directly. Does anyone know if laver milleniums size the same as the classic lavers? Thanks- Vince From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jul 30 14:15:22 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA02271 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:15:22 -0700 Received: from I (dhcp212.llic.net [209.125.90.212]) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA02268 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:15:21 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:15:19 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Shoes at Worlds Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, freestylers. This message is for those of you who plan to attend any part of the World Championships next week/weekend (August 5-11) in San Francisco. The Worlds Organizing Committee will have a concessions booth at the event (only on the main public days -- Thursday night, Saturday afternoon, Saturday night, and Sunday all day). One of the items the Worlds committee would like to make available for players to purchase (among many other things) is *shoes*. It is so hard to get Lavers that we thought it was important to offer them for sale. Flying Clipper will be staffing the official concessions booth on behalf of the Worlds committee, selling their entire range of alternative sports products (including of course the world's best footbags), as well as the Worlds commemorative t-shirts, videos, footbag shoes, and more (including products donated to us by our wonderful sponsors). In addition, we will attempt to make available to players much of the content of the World Footbag Association's catalog as well -- which is where the shoes come in. We need to know in advance (i.e., this week) how many people out there would want to buy shoes at our event booth, and what sizes they would want. That way we can try to have the right sizes and quantities on hand at the event. So, if you are seriously considering buying shoes, please e-mail me (PRIVATELY -- do not cc the list) and let me know, as well as what size you would want (US sizes only, please). The *ONLY* available shoes are the classic Rod Lavers that are stocked by the WFA (see http://worldfootbag.com/catman/show/199). Do not request any special flavors other than the one they offer, please. This is just a poll -- you are not committing nor reserving the shoes by replying. Thanks. Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jul 30 19:58:27 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA14863 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:58:27 -0700 Message-Id: <200207310258.TAA14863@llic.net> Received: from [65.92.243.80] by web11604.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:12:29 PDT Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:12:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellis Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Need Ride at Worlds To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, this should be such a good week. I can hardly wait! I just wanted to ask if there is anyone who could pick Caroline and me up at the airport on Monday, August 05, 2:38 pm. Please email me personally if you can help. Much thanks!, Ellis Piltz