From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Sep 1 11:49:35 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA26065 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:49:35 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 03:39:30 -0700 Received: from 80.199.252.22 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 01 Sep 2002 10:39:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.199.252.22] From: "Rasmus Rendsvig" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Add Solution Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 12:39:29 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Sep 2002 10:39:30.0098 (UTC) FILETIME=[DA221120:01C251A3] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Steve, Freestyle List etc. I think you have a point in making the add-system represent the difficulity but that is not the point of THAT system... The point is for the adds to show what the move is about, which concepts etc. that is use in performing the move. Making a system that is equal to difficulity I think is a good idea. Perhaps giving more points (not adds) would be an answer, for example making a regular dex (as in mirage) worth 5 point, a full dex worth 8 points and so on... Also this would help in the big paradox debate since it no longer would be a matter of black or white but a matter of a less important amount of points. As an example I will use Guay and (not) Paradox Guay. The 'clip > same in > same inside' guay is, I think, harder than any other Guay and should (in my opinion) be given a paradox-add but with a more flexible point-system the 'Paradox' Guay could be given an extra amount of point due to the paradox, that isn't really paradox but harder than the completly non-paradox version of the move. The same way the the DaDa-Curve is a 4-add move as the Ripwalk but it should (again in my opinion) only be given half (or so) the amount of points since it is SO much easier! On the other hand a point-system like this would add an extra dimension of complexity to the the entire freestyle move-list since you suddenly should have a lot of new definitions of difficulity for each move, but still it would become easier to judge some competitions (eg the Ryan >< Vasék battle). The technical part of the judging would become very easy since you could simply judge by the amount of points each competitioner recived... But in conclusion I don't think anyone is to mess with the add-system, though there is debate, it is nearly perfect for the original purpose. But if any (qualified) group would make up a point-system this would be great and I would support it. -- Rasmus Rendsvig, Denmark Sorry for any mis-speallings or gramma-mistakes... From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Sep 1 11:50:55 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA26088 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:50:55 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 10:33:59 -0700 Received: from 209.52.223.204 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 01 Sep 2002 17:33:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.52.223.204] From: "Jonathan Zaleski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Pixie Mobius Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 10:33:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Sep 2002 17:33:59.0587 (UTC) FILETIME=[C180EF30:01C251DD] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Whats up list, I hit Pixie Mobius yesterday, and i was wondering if it has been hit yet? I also watched gladiator yesterday, so i think a good name for the move would be proximo. Jonzy PS. Here is the notation, toe>sameout[dex]>backspin[bod]>op in[dex]>backspin[bod]>op clip[xbd][del] From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Sep 1 16:26:36 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id QAA03995 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 16:26:36 -0700 Received: by mail.infometrics.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:07:56 +1200 Message-ID: From: Floyd Morgan To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Add Solution Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:07:54 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, If we are going to ditch the X-body add, we may as well go ahead and kill the delay add as well. Personally I think it would be a hell of a lot harder to a long string with kicks than delays. Try hitting Blur > Dimwalk > Ripwalk....with kicks. Adds are good because they are easy to learn and simple to work with. Their downside is people keep trying to say that they gauge difficulty. I say keep the Add system for beginners who are learning jobs notation, both of these help considerably when learning the game (thanks Kenny etc), then adopt one of the many more complex systems I have seen on this list (or a combination of a few of them) to capture the difficulty of moves and strings etc. I say the IFPA should make a call on a measure of difficulty for use solely in judging IFPA sanctioned competitions, anyone unhappy with this system could join the IFPA, show up to their annual meetings, and have their say. Please send replies, death threats etc direct to me. And remember, kick for fun. Floyd From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Sep 1 16:27:50 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id QAA04029 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 16:27:50 -0700 Received: from 66-214-249-86.gln-eres.charterpipeline.net ([66.214.249.86] helo=sam) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17lc7S-0005lT-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 01 Sep 2002 14:18:54 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c251fc$ba15e240$56f9d642@charterpipeline.net> From: "Sam Colclough" To: Subject: [freestyle] A few World's Vid's Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 14:15:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At http://www.penny-lane.com/shred you will find Vasek's sick 3 from finals and semi-finales, his semi-finals routine, and hit finals 30 second shred. Also, there may be an added sick 3 attempt by Ryan Mulroney. (filming: Jeremy Mirken, encoding: Dat Phan and Bao Ngo) -Richard d James From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Sep 4 16:28:01 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id QAA02498 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 16:28:01 -0700 Received: from laxerone@netscape.net by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id z.10a.403d853 (16215); Wed, 4 Sep 2002 07:40:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from netscape.net (mow-d01.webmail.aol.com [205.188.138.65]) by air-in01.mx.aol.com (v88.20) with ESMTP id MAILININ13-0904074000; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 07:40:00 2000 Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 07:40:00 -0400 From: "Jan Zimmermann" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Judging Freestyle Message-ID: <3423B356.1B620988.0078AB1E@netscape.net> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everybody, As I'm looking for acts for our next Swiss Footbag Open, I browsed through some Tap Dancing home pages. And I found a nice description of judging criteria that the Swiss tap association uses. I think it might be a good idea to incorporate some of the aspects in footbag freestyle routines in the future. Maybe some of you can now see why I remarked in earlier posts that I think the first two places at this years worlds were overrated in their presentation scores. Why Tap dance? I think tap dance actually relates quite a bit to footbag freestyle. It's a dance form that also focuses highly on the technical abilities of a performer, on the surface even more so than in probably any other dance form or figure skating or the like. It's all about what you can do with your feet!!! and I think freestylers should well be able to relate to this (at least I can:) OK here's the down-low of their judging system: They use the standard majority judging system that is used in most dance competitions, i.e. the judges rank the players (similar to the old ranked component judging system, only that every judge judges the whole thing and not just one aspect of the routine). Judges should take the following five points into consideration: 1. Technical difficulty and tempo: i.e. -performance of difficult moves and combinations -overall tempo of the performance (in tap, even simple moves are hard if you do them fast) 2. Musicality and rhythmic precision -rhythmic clarity in respect to the music, rhythmic variety -rhythm change -synchronicity of taps and music -cleanness of the taps 3. use of floor space and chirographical variety -variety of movement -floor, planes of travel 4. Style and harmony of movement -composition, harmony of arm and body movement 5. Interpretation and personality -Stage presence, personal expression in appearance and mimic As you can see there is a lot that relates this judging system to a freestyle routine judging system. And a few points that we might want to consider applying to routines in the future. If you look at the points that the tap dancers consider in their judging and that from our standpoint would be considered "presentation" I think you will see that the first two routines fulfilled some of the requirements (and some even extremely well, almost perfect) but lacked some others. This is why I claim that the presentation score were overrated at this years worlds (and also at last years worlds for that matter). I do not dispute the total ranking at all! I just claim that combining Ryan's skill with some (not all) of Alex Zerbe's creativity and showmanship would produce a routine vastly superior in "presentation" than either Vasek's or Ryan's routine. With scores as they were given this year we do not, however, encourage any aspiring player to take Alex's path because Ryan's path is so more successful. In order for the sport to remain interesting for an audience however we need both! Technical abilities mixed with showmanship. If we had ten Ryan's or Vasek's on stage at worlds finals we would be very well off considering the technical abilities of players, I doubt however that we would be able to draw crowds in the long run. We need to encourage young players NOW to think about routines and presentation, not at some future point when technical abilities have reached their maximum and there's no where else to go. It takes as much time to develop presentational skills as it takes to develop technical skills and players who plan to contest in routines should take some time to practice those skills too. Thanks for your time once again:) Jan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Sep 4 16:59:34 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id QAA03945 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 16:59:34 -0700 Received: from Tina (cs24243230-212.austin.rr.com [24.243.230.212]) by txsmtp03.texas.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with SMTP id g84D91PP008306; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:09:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001001c25414$3d99e490$b47ba8c0@Tina> Reply-To: "Tina Lewis" From: "Tina Lewis" To: References: <3423B356.1B620988.0078AB1E@netscape.net> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Judging Freestyle Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 08:09:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I agree with Jan about the need for more presentation but we also desperately need to get the drops out. Putting less emphasis on hard moves and more emphasis on presentation may help with this. Then we still have two great events that emphasize difficulty, shredding and the extreme sports aspects - the Big 3 and the 30 second shred. As much as I love the hard routines, it has essentially become a 2 minute shred contest where the player picks some music that goes with it. Those who want to emphasize presentation and try to go dropless are assured of losing to someone who can rack up the adds. I asked the Producer of Worlds which events he liked better from a spectator standpoint and to my surprise he said Net. When I asked him why he said the drops in freestyle were killing us. People who are not well versed in freestyle and the difficulty of the tricks just lose interest when there are drops. I don't think we should model freestyle judging on ice skating but tap dance sounds reasonable. And how about juggling's judging system, or disc freestyle? Tina Lewis. tinalewis@footbag.org From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Sep 6 02:40:26 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id CAA11000 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 02:40:26 -0700 Message-Id: <200209060940.CAA11000@llic.net> Received: from [65.92.240.161] by web11606.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 21:25:31 PDT Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 21:25:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellis Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Dominance To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey avid shredders, I want to ask for input on something I've never really heard discussed. The concept is that there are two types of players: a) side-dominant, and b) foot-dominant. Side-dominance is when a player's *natural* strength (in moves) is from the Clipper of one foot and the Toe of the other. For example, Ryan Mulroney, Sunil Jani, Allan Haggett, and Vasek Klouda are side-dominant. They all have natural strength with the left foot clipper and right foot toe. Foot-dominance is when a player's natural strength lies with the same foot for both clipper and toe. For example, Big Add Chad, Ahren Gehrman, myself, and Peter Irish are foot-dominant players. Chad's and my left foot is naturally strong with clipper and toe, while Ahren and Pete's are right foot. Neither of the two categories is superior. I just see the difference, and I think there is much to be said about the contrasts in styles and strengths and natural tendencies. My main point of bringing all of this to attention is to ask for opinions and comments. Specifically, I am shooting a video in a few weeks that will talk briefly about this concept, and I want some input, from pros and beginners alike, on what to call the two styles. Do you think "side-dominant" and "foot-dominant" are the best terms for the concept? I see a parallel between this and skateboarding, having regular and goofy foot. However, in footbag there is no "regular", each type is as common as the other. I picture someone saying "I'm left-sided," and I feel like this somehow contradicts the whole point of having a "flipside". I'm sure there are two great words out there to define this perfectly; I'm just plum out of ideas. Also, I don't want to just take authority in calling it something without asking everyone first. Write to me privately, or if it's worth sharing, post it to the list. Thanks! Ellis Piltz From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Sep 6 13:20:13 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA17225 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:20:13 -0700 Message-Id: <200209062020.NAA17225@llic.net> Received: from [65.92.246.91] by web11601.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 12:37:59 PDT Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:37:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellis Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Dominance To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I've already received a bunch of email about the dominance thing, and I just want to make a few clarifications. Most of the replies were, "I don't fall into those two categories," or "how can you tell by watching guys like Ahren and Chad who are so even on both sides?" I'm sure I could have been more clear in my original message about this, but I usually try to limit the length my posts to not be so burdensome. If I may clarify. It doesn't matter (on this subject) if you can hit Gyro Baroque both sides and Fury both sides. That's not the point. The point is that humankind is accustomed to doing everything one-sided. Driving a car, writing, throwing a baseball, hammering a nail, brushing your teeth, and so forth are just a few examples. It is an irregular and recent trend (in all aspects of life) to do something equally well with the unnatural side of the body, brain, hand, foot, etc., which would normally be done only one-sided. Style-based sports are pushing this concept more than anything else, because it's not a contest of who's the fastest or strongest, but that of style, balance, and creativity. Skateboarders, Inline skaters, BMX riders, footbaggers, and so on are all doing making it standard for the top pros to be really good with the switch/flip/unnatural side. Given the above, the more the Flipside principle is pushed the less evident one's Flipside becomes. That's the whole idea, but that's not the topic of discussion. The main focus here is how we start out. Unless you start footbagging when you start walking, chances are you will have one-sided tendencies. And from those initial tendencies come two types of players: "foot-dominant" and "side-dominant." We all progress independently, but I see so many similarities between myself and other foot-dominant players, whereas almost none with side-dominant players. My question is what should we call these two categories? Something like Regular and Goofy, but more equatable and original. If no one has any input, I'll just think of something. Thanks, Ellis Piltz From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Sep 9 10:54:14 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA28536 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:54:14 -0700 Message-Id: <200209091754.KAA28536@llic.net> Received: from [65.92.246.72] by web11604.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Sep 2002 14:52:31 PDT Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 14:52:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellis Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Dominance To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On this subject still, Thanks for all your comments. It's cool that so many are showing interest, though none of it is going to list. For this reason, I will just post a few things about it, so everyone can see. I've still had a little confusion, but most people get it now. The issue of "Flipside" and "Dominance" are too completely separate issues. Flipside refers to INDIVIDUAL TRICKS, in that everyone has a Strong side and Flipside for every trick, unless you feel a certain trick is equally strong. Dominance is simply how a player starts out. My theory suggests that there are two types of players: those who PROGRESS FROM side-dominance and those who PROGRESS FROM foot-dominance. You can always say you are one or the other, but that should never limit you in any way! I can look at any player and tell you which Dominance he is. It's really interesting to see how similarly players progress within each category. I have received some cool suggestions for names, like "Regular and Sideways" from Damon Matthews, which I really like. Then someone suggested that there should be no Regular, since they are both pretty common. So I thought Singular and Plural fit well. Singular being foot-dominant, and Plural as side-dominant. What do you think??? I would love to have consensus on this. BAP members, are you out there? That's really not meant to exclude *anyone*. I'm just trying to get some knowledgeable feedback. Some of you are wondering what the video I am shooting is all about, so I'll follow up with a short announcement about it, when I have time. Thanks for caring. Ellis Piltz From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Sep 9 10:53:34 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA28519 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:53:34 -0700 From: Tom Kotsakos Received: from Honycherub@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id z.183.df3d41f (30970) for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 11:16:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <183.df3d41f.2aab725c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 11:16:44 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Dominance To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is somewhat related to Ellis' post. Ellis wrote: >I see a parallel between this and skateboarding, having regular >and goofy foot. I have been wondering about this for a while. I myself am right handed, and I assumed right footed (whatever that means). But when I first started playing my strong side clipper (left) (as well as other moves) was opposite of almost everyone I kicked with. My better symposium leg (right) was also opposite. Although I don't skateboard often, when I do, it feels more comfortable to ride goofy foot (right foot in front while the left foot pushes (hopefully)). Maybe a parallel? Tom Kotsakos Chicago Inner Circle "Kick till your legs fall off." ~Zeke From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Sep 9 10:55:03 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA28568 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:55:03 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 09:31:34 -0700 Received: from 24.69.2.97 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 08 Sep 2002 16:31:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.69.2.97] From: "Jubal Hume" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Judging Freestyle Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 09:31:34 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Sep 2002 16:31:34.0500 (UTC) FILETIME=[32264240:01C25755] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I agree 100%. I think that if we take this and mod it to suit freestyle, we will have a much better way of looking at singles and doubles freestyle. It may be that shred 30 and the big three events should stay the same [RE: judging them]. Perhaps we should add in: --use of objects/sets/props --vertical space usages [IE: max vertical in jumping, or how high the freestyler jumped from] this post is from JUBAL HUME >From: "Jan Zimmermann" >To: freestyle@footbag.org >Subject: [freestyle] Judging Freestyle 1. Technical difficulty and tempo: i.e. -performance of difficult moves and combinations -overall tempo of the performance (in tap, even simple moves are hard if you do them fast) 2. Musicality and rhythmic precision -rhythmic clarity in respect to the music, rhythmic variety -rhythm change -synchronicity of taps and music -cleanness of the taps 3. use of floor space and chirographical variety -variety of movement -floor, planes of travel 4. Style and harmony of movement -composition, harmony of arm and body movement 5. Interpretation and personality -Stage presence, personal expression in appearance and mimic From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Sep 9 10:55:30 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA28581 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:55:30 -0700 Received: from [64.164.0.26] (HELO [192.168.1.102]) by dantz.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 5399792 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 08 Sep 2002 07:32:27 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.2509 Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 07:33:51 -0700 Subject: [freestyle] 2001 Worlds Video - VHS and DVD From: Tuan Vu To: Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all! I'm pleased to announce that the 2001 Worlds routine video is now available on VHS and DVD. I have also included the promo videos from all the 2001 singles finalists. Please email directly for more information. Thanks, Tuan Disco Ninja PS. The 2002 Worlds routine video is on the way! From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Sep 9 10:57:07 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA28637 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:57:07 -0700 Received: from 66-214-249-186.gln-eres.charterpipeline.net ([66.214.249.186] helo=sam) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17o5uy-00013K-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 08 Sep 2002 10:32:16 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c2575d$3a63f6c0$baf9d642@charterpipeline.net> From: "Sam Colclough" To: Subject: [freestyle] Double ducking Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 10:28:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Here is some double ducking: http://www.penny-lane.com/shred/2d.avi Sam (neck is sore) From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Sep 9 10:57:31 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA28665 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:57:31 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 06:42:38 -0700 Received: from 80.199.252.22 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Sep 2002 13:42:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.199.252.22] From: "Rasmus Rendsvig" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Paradox in Gangsta Party, Montage Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 15:42:37 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Sep 2002 13:42:38.0125 (UTC) FILETIME=[C2CFEDD0:01C25806] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I really, really don't understand why both the Gangsta Party (spinning ducking Blender) and the Montage (spinning ducking symp. Whirl) is paradox?? Here is the Job's: G.P Clip>Back Spin(BOD)>Duck(BOD)>Op In(PDX)(DEX)>Back Spin(BOD)>Same Clip(XBD)(DEL) As you see it is a Op In dex so it shouldn't get that paradox add. It is the same thing with the montage... If this paradox add is added correctly will somebody explain why? Is a spinning ducking blender "paradoxly" harder from a clipper set the from a toe? I don't, but want to, understand! Rasmus Rendsvig, Denmark. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Sep 9 12:02:09 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA31662 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:02:09 -0700 Message-Id: <200209091902.MAA31662@llic.net> Received: from [207.63.23.151] by web11402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Sep 2002 11:56:56 PDT Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 11:56:56 -0700 (PDT) From: James Risden Subject: [freestyle] Records? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, Does anyone have a current list of move records? I recently hit 12 blurry whirls and 4 ripped warriors. :-) Also hit ripped warrior> superfly> symp bubba and fog> pixie same whirl> superfly. Just a little end of summer boasting. Peace, James Risden From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Sep 9 15:15:00 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA09519 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:15:00 -0700 Received: from attbi.com ([12.239.73.16]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020909210058.HVQB14182.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@attbi.com>; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:00:58 +0000 Message-ID: <3D7D0ED2.2884F55F@attbi.com> Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 16:12:50 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Records? References: <200209091902.MAA31662@llic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org James Risden wrote: > > Hey, > Does anyone have a current list of move records? Yep. The current record list is still on http://www.dallas.footbag.org Just click on 'records'. I'm still looking for video verification on a lot of these records, so I encourage everyone to film their shreds. Later. -D And, James... props for the combos. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Sep 9 23:30:23 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id XAA10457 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 23:30:23 -0700 Received: from 66-214-249-186.gln-eres.charterpipeline.net ([66.214.249.186] helo=sam) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17odc0-0000UB-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2002 22:30:56 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c2588a$c98eb820$baf9d642@charterpipeline.net> From: "Sam Colclough" To: Subject: [freestyle] New Shred Vid Online Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 22:27:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, you can see 3 quarters of my new footbag video Sessions online at http://www.oopsfreestyle.com I hope you like it. -sam From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Sep 9 23:35:15 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id XAA10634 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 23:35:15 -0700 Received: from 1sgpz01 (syr-66-24-59-181.twcny.rr.com [66.24.59.181]) by mailout5-0.nyroc.rr.com (8.11.6/RoadRunner 1.20) with SMTP id g8A5ATW15641 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 01:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001f01c25888$cacfae80$b53b1842@twcny.rr.com> From: "Tyler Linscot" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox in Gangsta Party, Montage Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 01:13:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This message is 2 fold. Those of you who understand spinning ducking paradox please skip to part 2. 1. The paradox is added right because of the spin. Take away the duck and you have: clip>back spin> op dex. This is the essence to spining paradox. say you start with a rigth foot clipper then do a back spin, the bag is now on the right of you. now from that position it is much easier to do a dex with the right foot that shifting your hips and hitting a left footed dex. The harder paradox add is awarded for the harder move. Thus change the set from a clipper to a clipper>spin, you still must let the bag travel in front of your body and preform the hip swivel to get the extra add. So technicaly, montage gets the paradox add. 2. now that i've explained why you must change sides to get the pdx add on a spin why doesn't the same hold true for a duck?? for example clip>duck>same in dex> op toe, pdx ducking mirage is a 4. yet clip> duck>op in dex>op toe, a move that requires much more hip shifting, is only a three. In the same way a spin set puts the bag on the op side of your body, the duck set does the same thing. So shouldn't it follow that you would have to switch dexing sides to get the extra add?? This theory may not be quikly accepted for the fact that moves like montage and gauntlet will become 6's, but think about it logically, after a duck there is no paradox hip swinging to be seen on these moves that are getting a paradox add. It is also taking away the motivating to hit moves like stepping ducking ss torque, a move thats harder than gauntlet yet only a 6. The same theory should be apllied to diving. a right footed clip set to a dive puts the bag back on the left side of your body, thus the right foot should have to do the dex. In summation, I think things should be CHANGED to the following: clip>duck>same in(NO pdx) clip> duck >op in (pdx) Clip>dive>same in (pdx) Clip>dive>op in (NO pdx) I would realy like to know what the rest of the list thinks about this. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think this system more acuratly awards pdx adds. ty From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Sep 10 00:12:58 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id AAA11811 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 00:12:58 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 23:56:15 -0700 Received: from 216.119.29.201 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 06:56:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [216.119.29.201] From: "Brendan Banister" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Pixie Dyno Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 02:56:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Sep 2002 06:56:15.0529 (UTC) FILETIME=[2810C990:01C25897] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org My friend Peter originaly hit this move long ago and wanted to call it "Magello". I have also hit it but I didn't see it listed so mabey it could be included. TOE > SAME IN [DEX] (plant) > OP OUT [DEX] > (back) SPIN [BOD] > SAME CLIP [XBD] [DEL] Thx, ~Brendan Banister From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Sep 11 11:57:57 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA29323 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:57:57 -0700 Message-Id: <200209111857.LAA29323@llic.net> Received: from [65.92.246.131] by web11607.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:45:32 PDT Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:45:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellis Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Dominance To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Footbag users and abusers, I have received so much input on this subject, and I would like to thank all of you for taking the time. BIGFOOT and SIDEWAYS foundation/stance. That's it! Thanks to Damon Matthews and Cameron Kennedy for coming up with such cool names. I do hope everyone agrees on this subject. I've tried to address all confusion and make everything concise. If there is anything that needs to be clarified, feel free to add. Some people have said they think there are more than just two foundations, but I disagree. I think some people aren't so easy to determine as one or the other, but after careful analyzation about sets and dexes and such it's usually pretty obvious. Dennis Jones (original BAP) wrote, "This is a very interesting topic and I never realized this, I just watched some old video I have over the weekend and once you are aware of this it really stands out." I agree. I've had discussions with many people over the past year about the dominance theory. Big Add Chad and I in particular have talked much of this. To compare: Chad is right-handed; I am left-handed; Chad is Left Bigfoot; I am Left Bigfoot; Chad learned both sides evenly since early in his career; I started learning both sides after my first World's (97); Chad can hit all his 5-add moves on both sides; I can hit all my 5s on both sides. Point is that Chad and I started with the same foundation (Bigfoot) and evolved independently, but today we have exactly the same strengths and weaknesses. Only thing is Chad's a little better than me. I think most players can be compared exactly the same way, and any differences are LEARNED. Later, Ellis Piltz From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Sep 11 18:14:17 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA13389 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:14:17 -0700 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:14:17 -0700 From: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Message-Id: <200209120114.SAA13389@llic.net> Received: by xmxpita.excite.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 9BD4A3E10; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:24:32 -0400 (EDT) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Philly Footworks jam this Sunday Received: from [155.91.6.71] by xprdmailfe9.nwk.excite.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:24:32 EST Reply-To: robert__green@excite.com From: "Bob Green" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: robert__green@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020911202432.9BD4A3E10@xmxpita.excite.com> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers, This message is a quick heads up to anyone that is not on the Philly Footworks club e-mail distribution that may be interested in an informal freestyle jam this coming Sunday outside of Philadelphia. (If you fall in this category, please contact Bob Riefer to be placed in the loop for future Philly Footworks e-mail distributions.) Various Philly Footworks members and affiliates will be convening in Ambler, PA (about 12 miles north of Philly) on September 15th at 1:00 to shred during the 11th Annual Ambler Oktoberfest. Why come kick this weekend? The current weather forecast is for 79 degrees F.....so, between nice weather, lots of shredding, and plenty of lederhosen it should be a great time! If you are interested in attending, please consult the "News" section of the Philly Footworks Club Listing (http://www.footbag.org/clubs/show/964199836) for information on the Oktoberfest event, our shredding location, and driving directions. Thanks, and I look forward to seeing everyone who can make it this weekend! Bob Green From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Sep 16 12:43:22 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8GJhLSx006574 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:43:21 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8GJhLBD006569 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:43:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: by bkb01-ims-01.ikon.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:47:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1FC5532D6B96D411874200D0B782DA88061B7F63@phl01-msx-04.ikon.org> From: "Robert Riefer" To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Philly Party Crash - October 12-13 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:47:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Please see even details at http://www.footbag.org/events/show/1031950473 The Philly Part Crash is basically a bunch of freestylers going to a Juggling Festival. By the way, this is the easiest event I've ever put together... Joining an event already organized by someone else is a good thing to look into in your area. Of course, you want to talk to the event organizer first to be sure you're welcome etc. But that's another conversation. Anyhow, David Smith (pro juggler and festival organizer) has welcomed our freestylers with open arms. He's assured us of plenty of shred space that is well lit and spacious. He expects around 100 jugglers in addition to whatever players we bring so it should be a blast. Check it out. Hope to see you there. Please research the event listing (link above) prior to emailing me any questions. Thanks! Bob Riefer Philly Footworks. PS - NOTE TO EAST COASTERS!!! You live on the East Coast? Want to know more about local footbag happenings? Then get your butt onto the northeast email list! Traffic is low, but your membership will ensure you don't miss out on the smaller events that we don't publicize on the announce or freestyle lists. Go to http://list.footbag.org/majordomo/lists and you'll find the list I'm referring to. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Sep 16 12:43:26 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8GJhQSx006584 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:43:26 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8GJhPPX006582 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:43:25 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:43:25 -0700 From: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Message-Id: <200209161943.g8GJhPPX006582@llic.net> X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from [12.229.26.49] by web12805.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 16 To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sep 2002 11:55:28 PDT Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:55:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Baker Subject: [freestyle] Video? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I am looking for Alex Zerbe's semifinal and final's routines, along with the Brothers From Different Mothers diablo routine performed at semi's. If anyone has all 3 of those I would happily trade you or throw some flow your way. E-mail me for details! Cordially, Matt Baker Brothers From Different Mothers Performers Posse P.S. Be careful crossing the Border! From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Sep 16 14:26:46 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8GLQjSx014137 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:26:46 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8GLQjh1014135 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:26:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:41:01 -0700 Received: from 208.141.177.204 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:41:01 GMT X-Originating-IP: [208.141.177.204] From: "Jim Penske" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Breaking in bags?? Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:41:01 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Sep 2002 20:41:01.0515 (UTC) FILETIME=[5E7D81B0: 01C25DC1] Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Footbaggers, I was wondering if anyone has some good tips for breaking in a 32 panel facile bag. I know the best way is to just kick it a lot. But it is hard to "shred" a bag when it's new. I just want to know what all you shredders do to break in your bags. Thanks, Slim Jim Pimpske From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Sep 16 17:19:57 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8H0JvSx031667 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:19:57 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8H0JvW8031665 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:19:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from footbaga1hc7od [216.232.193.67] by FootbagCanada.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A28D1E7101C8; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:08:45 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Chard Cook" To: Subject: RE: [freestyle] Breaking in bags?? Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:10:21 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200209162226.g8GMQ4Kf022720@llic.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I was wondering if anyone has some good tips for breaking in a 32 panel > facile bag. I know the best way is to just kick it a lot. But it > is hard to > "shred" a bag when it's new. I just want to know what all you shredders do > to break in your bags. > > Thanks, Slim Jim Pimpske Hey Jim, Kicking is definitely the *funnest* way to break in a new bag. But if you roll the bag back and forth between your hands and knead it between your fingers and thumbs then you'll find that it loosens the stitching considerably. However, not all 32 panels are the same. For example, the Kanga 32 panel is really loose to start with and hardly needs any break in. This is partly because of the design but also because of the amount of filling that goes in. Whereas, other 32 panels like the Juice, for instance, are stitched a little tighter and therefore have more bounce in the beginning. Cleaning the bag on a regular basis helps to stretch the stitching AND it'll prolong the life of the bag also. This is because when the bag gets dirty, little grains of dirt get caught in the fabric and will wear down the material. So, if you wash the dirt out, the material lasts longer. Just be careful, some fabrics will bleed color. Shred long, shred hard, Chard Cook Canadian Footbag Alliance From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Sep 17 11:11:29 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8HIBTZM023201 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:11:29 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8HIBTFe023199 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:11:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:12:10 -0700 Received: from 128.214.157.201 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:12:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.214.157.201] From: "Samuli Viitanen" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Breaking in bags?? Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:12:10 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Sep 2002 17:12:10.0452 (UTC) FILETIME=[5BCEC940: 01C25E6D] X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dear friends, Jim Penske wrote: >Footbaggers, > >I was wondering if anyone has some good tips for breaking in a 32 panel >facile bag. I know the best way is to just kick it a lot. But it is hard to >"shred" a bag when it's new. I just want to know what all you shredders do >to break in your bags. > >Thanks, Slim Jim Pimpske The undisputed king of breaking in 32 panel facile footbags is Justin Sexton, so I hope he responds in some way to this (if there's something to add to the things I'm about to say;). I have used three ways to break in my sweetsweet facile 32 panel bags: 1) What Jim already mentioned, kick it a lot. 2) Soften the fabric by rolling it with your fingers. But not too hard!!! We don't want no holes to our precious new bags, do we? 3) Stretch the seams of the bag by stretching it:) The whole purpose of a break-in is to make your bag quite flat, eh? So strech the seams (carefully, of course) while watching tv (or sitting at a boring lecture or something) and you will gain results. And of course, wash your bags every now and then with mild soap, so they'll be shiny for those mad combos and rallys. Hope to see y'all at the Finnish Champs on September 28th&29th @ Helsinki!! Over and out, Samuli Viitanen, Finland From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Sep 17 11:44:22 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8HIiLZM025017 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:44:22 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8HIiLjb025015 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:44:21 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:44:21 -0700 From: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Message-Id: <200209171844.g8HIiLjb025015@llic.net> X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from [masked] by smtpgw01.fujifilmesys.com (NTMail To: undisclosed-recipients:; X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) 7.02.3037/NY9948.00.19b4f186) with ESMTP id wkavieaa for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:41:57 -0400 Received: by exchange.fujifilmesys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:41:56 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mike Anello To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Breaking in bags?? Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:41:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-VSMLoop: fujifilmesys.com X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org To break in a 32 panel facile bag. 1) MASSAGE IT: Have the bag with you at all times. Kick when you can, or massage the bag with your hands when you cannot. Not only does rubbing the bag with your hands help break in the bag, it can be beneficial as a stress relief during work or school times and can also help promote the sport to people who inquire about your bag. 2) WASH IT: Wash your bag, by hand, with soap and water, but only after a few good shred sessions with it. If you wash it too early, the colors may run and turn your bag ugly shades of color. Washing your bag will certainly help break up and loosen the material. Caution, sand bags take many hours to dry, so be sure not to wash a sand bag to soon before a shred session. 3) KICK IT: Kick your bag a lot, especially during the break in period. Try to shred with it. Using a bag with a little more bounce than usual will help you develop a higher sensitivity to the bag's responsiveness and may greatly improve your ability to catch and delay the bag. You may also help develop a more smooth and fluid style of freestyle by breaking in a new bag through shredding with it. Have fun and enjoy the new bag. Mike Anello From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Sep 17 13:27:33 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8HKRXZM032057 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:27:33 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8HKRXmL032055 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:27:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:27:33 -0700 From: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Message-Id: <200209172027.g8HKRXmL032055@llic.net> X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from [masked] by smtpgw01.fujifilmesys.com (NTMail To: undisclosed-recipients:; X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) 7.02.3037/NY9948.00.19b4f186) with ESMTP id wkavieaa for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:41:57 -0400 Received: by exchange.fujifilmesys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:41:56 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mike Anello To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Breaking in bags?? Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:41:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-VSMLoop: fujifilmesys.com X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org To break in a 32 panel facile bag. 1) MASSAGE IT: Have the bag with you at all times. Kick when you can, or massage the bag with your hands when you cannot. Not only does rubbing the bag with your hands help break in the bag, it can be beneficial as a stress relief during work or school times and can also help promote the sport to people who inquire about your bag. 2) WASH IT: Wash your bag, by hand, with soap and water, but only after a few good shred sessions with it. If you wash it too early, the colors may run and turn your bag ugly shades of color. Washing your bag will certainly help break up and loosen the material. Caution, sand bags take many hours to dry, so be sure not to wash a sand bag to soon before a shred session. 3) KICK IT: Kick your bag a lot, especially during the break in period. Try to shred with it. Using a bag with a little more bounce than usual will help you develop a higher sensitivity to the bag's responsiveness and may greatly improve your ability to catch and delay the bag. You may also help develop a more smooth and fluid style of freestyle by breaking in a new bag through shredding with it. Have fun and enjoy the new bag. Mike Anello From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Sep 17 13:32:29 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8HKWSZM032426 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:32:28 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8HKWStf032424 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:32:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pd6mr3so.prod.shaw.ca (pd6mr3so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.218]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H2L00LMMND3WR@l-daemon> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:24:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml1so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml1so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.145]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H2L00G0PND1QM@l-daemon> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:24:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a1.footbag.org (h24-79-114-42.vc.shawcable.net [24.79.114.42]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H2L00D1JND1K1@l-daemon> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:24:39 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:24:17 -0700 From: Gary Lautt Subject: RE: [freestyle] post BAP era freestyle --- recognition of excellence X-Sender: akeh@akeh.com To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <5.1.1.6.0.20020917132340.00b1e018@akeh.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I totally agree with Sinil. Rippin, Sam, Eric, all deserve to be in the Hall. In fact everyone on the ballot deserved to be in, not to mention many others which were not on the ballot. Many of these players deserve it more then some of us who are in the Hall. Many of the current members ( but not all), including myself, spent only a few years in the sport. Many of the nominees have giving much more of their life to footbag than SOME of the current members. I think it's time to let the members of the IFPA nominate & vote on Hall of Fall membership. I think SOME of the current members of the Hall have been out of the game so long that they don't even know who many of the nominees are or how much they have given to this great game. This is a great game & the Hall of Fame needs to include the many great players that so far have not been included. Gary Lautt -----Original Message----- From: owner-freestyle@footbag.org [mailto:owner-freestyle@footbag.org]On Behalf Of Sunil S. Jani Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:59 PM To: Ted Huff Cc: freestyle list Subject: Re: [freestyle] post BAP era freestyle --- recognition of excellence Ted: Regarding the constituency of the footbag hall of fame: On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, Ted Huff wrote: > The fact that more BAP members are not on the final ballot is primarily due > to potential nomination supporters, readers of this listing, and > footbag@footbag.org, are slacking in their support of their leaders ! This is total crap, crap, trash. Ted, don't you dare try and blame this on the general footbaggers and freestylers on the list and footbag.org. The fact of the matter is that we rallied to get Rippin, Pete, Wulff, and Sam on the ballots at least once (or twice) in the past two years. They were on the ballot and then it goes into the current footbag hall of fame members hands to vote them in. WE PUT THEM ON THE BALLOT... you and your peers as a whole negged them... hopefully the review committee and Shults will see that such travesties do not get carried out as such in the future. > Where's the freestyle support of such past singles champions, as example, as > Rippin' Rick Reese or Sam Conlon ? Please think about that when nominations > are again open in January 2003 ! Or when you feel that freestyle isn't > given enough credit/recognition by sponsors of the sport ! I have nothing but the utmost of respect for the pioneers who helped build the sport of footbag... each and every person in the hall of fame contributed so much to what we have today... but when Rippin, Pete, Sam, and Wulff are on the ballot and don't get in... its just silly. Yes, there are many who have yet to be recognized for contributing to the sport in the past, but the people I listed have been contributing to the sport for decades AND STILL ARE... give them some friggin respect... THEY ALL DESERVED TO BE FIRST BALLOT HALL OF FAMERS!! > > Until then, if you have any suggestions for changes in criteria for > induction, which has not been restricted to retirement from any open singles > play, you can direct them to me, OR the head of our review committee: the > great , Footbag Hall of Fame Member, Kenny Shults at kenshults@aol.com I have spoken to you and Kenny about this multiple times... as for now, I have full faith in the review committee. Regarding the BAP: On a separate note, induction into the BAP is not an end... it is just a milepost along the path... if you are only playing to get in, then not only will you be disappointed if you do not get inducted, but you might very well be disappointed if you do ever get inducted. Play for the love and play for growth... thusly, you will never be let down. Sunil S. Jani From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Sep 18 22:02:40 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8J52deu013245 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 22:02:39 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8J52dJ3013242 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 22:02:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 15:32:52 -0700 Received: from 24.48.51.197 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 22:32:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.48.51.197] From: "Brandon Isralsky" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Judging Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:32:52 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Sep 2002 22:32:52.0673 (UTC) FILETIME=[537A7310:01C25F63] X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Freestylers: Is there anyone that can explain the general juding in a freestyle competition?? Including deductions for dropping and such. Also the basic rules in most competitions. Any info is appreciated. Brandon Lebo Hacks From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Sep 18 22:01:22 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8J51Meu012982 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 22:01:22 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8J51McC012980 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 22:01:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (from www@localhost) by mail16.bigmailbox.com (8.11.6/8.10.0) id g8J3iVW32564; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:44:31 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:44:31 -0700 Message-Id: <200209190344.g8J3iVW32564@mail16.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [24.128.13.123] From: "Neil Bornstein" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] New Move X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org New Move I really like the dragonfly kick, but if I were ever to go to a competition, it wouldn't be so useful at only two adds. So this move is like a dragonfly kick, but it uses a full dex to make the kick a clipper. set>jump[bod]>op/same in[dex]>op clip[xbd] The dexterity is performed like a whirl to a bent-knee clipper. I'd like to call this flier "Enigma" because I like the sound of Paradox Enigma. I'm free to any comments or questions, "Thwap Man" Neil Bornstein From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Sep 18 22:51:36 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8J5paeu014710 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 22:51:36 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8J5pa9P014708 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 22:51:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from I (brat.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8J5pVex014701 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 22:51:35 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 22:51:25 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Judging Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 6:32 PM -0400 9/18/02, Brandon Isralsky wrote: >Is there anyone that can explain the general juding in a freestyle >competition?? Including deductions for dropping and such. Also the >basic rules in most competitions. http://ifc.footbag.org/article-5.html Steve P.S. Please avail yourself of the plethora of information on footbag.org before posting to the list. Thanks. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Sep 19 12:42:53 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8JJgqeu015289 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:42:52 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8JJgqMP015287 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:42:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Thehuff1@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id q.ab.2266b56b (4184); Thu, 19 Sep 2002 08:09:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Ted Huff Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 08:09:05 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] post BAP era freestyle --- recognition of excellence To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Gary, Just to make clarify a little more, ................ 1. I have voted for key freestyle players every year, such as Sam Conlon, Rippin' Rick Reese, Peter Irish, Eric Wulff, and Mr. Jay Muldenhauer, and have hinted, etc. for others to support their nominations and solicit others to do the same every year, as I , personally, feel that there is no doubt of their impact in leading the freestyle movement in this sport, worldwide, due to their innovation and inspiration, if nothing else. 2. I have never felt that retirement from Open Singles in Freestyle or Net versions of this sport was a necessary influence on my voting priveledge. 3. I have felt that each nominee's place in a timeline of this sport's history does mean something to me, personally, and do consider that, when I have the priveldge to vote. 4. As you know, I volunteer to try to coordinate a vote each year, and spend my own money to help, by sending out packets of all the information, including testimonials for each nominee, such as from Sunil, to every current Hall of Fame Member, so that despite the fact that some have not been active in the sport for over a decade +, the fact is that they have valuable information on each final ballot nominee , and can make intelligent choices. BUT, then I have to assume that even those that are active in the current sport will also take the time to actually vote, too ! The key is voting, not a lack of information. Example: last year, the #1 in multiple nominations via this website's announcements of open nominations, was Allan Petersen. Yet despite many efforts, even he did not get more than 20 individuals to support his nomination. 5 nominee's ( the top 5 in multiple nominations each year ) , including Allan, were added to 5 carryovers from last year's final ballot, and that 10, + ties, became the 2002 final ballot for voting by all current Hall of Fame Members. As unfortunate as that is, meaning the lack of support for nominee's, for the final vote, only 20 of 35 eligible voters, meaning your fellow Hall of Fame Members, took the time to return their final ballot's vote by a deadline of June 1st. 3 great people, Chris Ott, Allan Petersen, and Maxell Smith, that did get a 66% majority vote, were inducted at a very special dinner in their honor on August 12th. ( NOTE: Susan Ott and I sponsored that event , and all monies left over were donated to the 2002 Worlds Committee for support of putting on the 2002 World Championships. This amounted to almost $700.00 ) BUT, the fact is that unless more people , via the opportunities given by this website, participate in the nomination process, some of these great freestyle performers will keep getting slighted in voting. Let alone others that have made this sport a sport, such as promoters like Brenda and Joe Solonoski, or inspirational Ian Kobiyashi, or Derrick Fogle, or Eric Cote, or Tim Vozar as examples !!!! Or Uber Steve ! Sunil did a great job of trying to rally people to support certain nominee's this past 2 years, but what happened was that not enough followed his lead, while supporters of others kept adding to other nominee's nomination support, and then continued to pressure Hall of Fame members for their vote for their favorite nominee's. The result was not what Sunil and other freestylers wanted to see as fair to their favorite candidates, but it was fair voting, and the results of actual multiple nomination support to make the final ballot, and then the result of someone getting a 66% majority vote on the final ballot were fair. There is no substitution for participation. More nomination support for a candidate, more pressure put on voters to vote as you feel they should, for all the right reasons, will result in voting that will be favorable to those of your choice. Hopefully, with new input to the voting criteria, via a committee formed by Ken Shults, will result in some other excellent nominee's being placed on the ballot for next year. BUT that effort, and any others, to honor people that have made this sport grow worldwide, and helped shape it's history, will be worth nothing if footbag players don't take advantage of the opportunity to vote, or simply add to an existing nominee's support. Hopefully, next January when nominations for this sport's little Hall of Fame are open again, Sunil can make his nomination support requests, and a whole bunch of players, and supporters of the sport, will rally to his passionate plea for support. I know I will ! MY point was that I hope next year there is less slacking, and more backing. Pass It On ! And, first things first, support the IFPA now, and put on more tournaments , so there is a continued history of this great game ! From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Sep 19 22:49:04 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8K5n4eu020340 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:49:04 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8K5n4M3020338 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:49:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:37:24 -0700 Received: from 202.180.83.6 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 05:37:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [202.180.83.6] From: "Hanz Freller" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Gyro Barfly? Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 05:37:24 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Sep 2002 05:37:24.0877 (UTC) FILETIME=[CC8213D0:01C26067] X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi team, I was wondering if anyone has hit this move: clip>back spin(bod)>same out(dex)>same out(dex)>op clip (xbd,del). Basically its a gyro barfly so I have no idea if people like Ryan, Sunil, Chad etc have hit this, if so does it have a name, if not how about "Nightmare". Not that I have hit it yet but it is becoming a nightmare for me to get the foot work right. I will hit this move if its the last thing I do. HaHaHa (evil laugh of doom) peace out and shred till the legs fall off, then, keep going Hanz (That 70's Guy) From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat Sep 21 11:02:50 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8LI2ofO011011 for ; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:02:50 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8LI2oJW011009 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:02:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 03:37:24 -0700 Received: from 63.105.21.223 by sea2fd.sea2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 10:37:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.105.21.223] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gyro Barfly? Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 10:37:24 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Sep 2002 10:37:24.0718 (UTC) FILETIME=[DFA998E0:01C2615A] X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hanz Freller asked: >I was wondering if anyone has hit this move: >clip>back spin(bod)>same out(dex)>same out(dex)>op clip (xbd,del). >Basically its a gyro barfly so I have no idea if people like Ryan, Sunil, >Chad etc have hit this, Or even Rippen for that matter :) The move in question is Bullwhip and Rippen and Scott D have been hitting this for 3 years or more. I came close to it today in jeans, so props to me. Just because I've been schooling it lately and the subject came up, has anyone hit inspinning-gyro-double-over down? Cheers to all. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Sep 22 16:18:41 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8MNIfBq010557 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 16:18:41 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8MNIfBA010554 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 16:18:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 16:54:01 -0700 Received: from 210.49.190.48 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 23:54:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [210.49.190.48] From: "Dan Ednie" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Footbag Jam/Tournament In Australia Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 09:54:00 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Sep 2002 23:54:01.0174 (UTC) FILETIME=[2891FF60:01C261CA] X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello list, Just thought I might tell anybody interested that there is going to be a very informal footbag gathering with a few competitions in Melbourne (outside the state library) on Saturday the 5th of October. I'd encourage all footbaggers in Victoria young/old, begginning/experienced to come along and help The Melbourne Footbag Club create the biggest footbag gathering in the Southern Hemisphere this year. Most of the day we will be having as many freestyle circles and foursquare courts running as we can but we will also be having 3 competitions throughout the day. Here is the schedule 12:00- Formal start of Jam (no registration) 1:00- Sick 3 competition 2:00- Shred 30 3:00Routines (1:30-2:00) We won't be having Beginner and Intermediate classes unless we have a huge turnout. The competitions will be the State Championships and we will be able to give out State rankings and name Open and Junior All Around Champions for this year. If you have any enquiries please don't hesitate to email me or Brendon mfcshred@hotmail.com Dan Ednie From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Sep 22 16:15:02 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8MNF2Bq010431 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 16:15:02 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8MNF2X0010427 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 16:15:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #30560) id <0H2V02V010ZUJE@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 15:57:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #30560) with ESMTP id <0H2V02QNV0ZU3R@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 15:57:30 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 15:34:18 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gyro Barfly? To: freestyle Message-id: <3D7E3A59@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From Andrew McCargar >The move in question is Bullwhip and >Rippen and Scott D have been hitting this for 3 years or more. Sam Colclough had (has?) a video clip on his web site that showed Chad D. hitting Bullwhip? I don't know the address though. Sickness! And so much harder than Scorpians Tail. Later, Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Sep 22 16:16:32 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8MNGWBq010486 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 16:16:32 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8MNGWJP010484 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 16:16:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #30560) id <0H2V02W011NAKA@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 16:11:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #30560) with ESMTP id <0H2V02QSI1NA3R@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 16:11:34 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 15:48:22 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] New Move To: freestyle Message-id: <3D7E3C24@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From Neil Bornstein ===== >set>jump[bod]>op/same in[dex]>op clip[xbd] >The dexterity is performed like a whirl to a bent-knee clipper. That's a move that I (and others I'm sure) have hit for a while. But my fliers are usually terrible so I never throw it in unless I'm all alone in a quiet corner all by myself. As for the value of the trick. If you kick the bag as a bent knee clipper then it's not a full dex and you're not really getting to the x-body because your kicking foot is still technically in front of the dexing leg instead of behind it. So it's still 2 adds (if you care about such things). In order to get the x-body you'd have to do the dex fully and kick the bag like a regular flying clipper (not bent knee). As for whether a dragonfly is useless or not in competition I'd have to say no. It's another unique if only 2 adds and it can be done paradox for an extra add. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Sep 23 16:59:47 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8NNxkBq016398 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 16:59:46 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8NNxkKX016396 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 16:59:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ems.salk.edu (198.202.67.146) by ems.salk.edu (Worldmail 1.3.167); 23 Sep 2002 15:06:33 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 15:06:12 -0700 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Breaking in bags?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Cameron Kennedy In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Monday, September 16, 2002, at 01:41 PM, Jim Penske wrote: > "shred" a bag when it's new. I just want to know what all you > shredders do to break in your bags. My secret to breaking in bags is not to need the bag and give it time by having lots of bags. for example : I have 14 bags right now, 8 of them are in various stages of near readiness. 4 of them I haven't even begun to break in yet. The remaining two are the bags that I am using right now. I warm up a bit with some of the better 8 that are being broken-in. My main technique is just to crunch the bag up in my hands, roll it bit and repeat. I break my bags in as pairs so that if anything happens to one, I have another similar bag ready. Cameron From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Sep 23 23:38:16 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8O6cFBq003066 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:38:15 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8O6cFZM003064 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:38:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:00:51 -0700 Received: from 194.100.168.94 by sea2fd.sea2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 06:00:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [194.100.168.94] From: "Jyri Ilama" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] New Move Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 06:00:50 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2002 06:00:51.0975 (UTC) FILETIME=[BCDB3170:01C2638F] X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Brad wrote: > As for the value of the trick. If you kick the bag as a bent knee >clipper then it's not a full dex and you're not really getting to the >x-body >because your kicking foot is still technically in front of the dexing leg >instead of behind it. So it's still 2 adds (if you care about such >things). > In order to get the x-body you'd have to do the dex fully and kick >the >bag like a regular flying clipper (not bent knee). I don't get it :) why couldn't it be in x-body position, really? I think it'd be 3 adds if you really do the dex like whirl and the kick like in knee-clipper (which is 2 adds) .. But, that's just my two Finnish euro-cents. - Jyri Ilama From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Sep 24 18:06:32 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8P16VBq001533 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:06:31 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8P16VtI001531 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:06:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.clem.mscd.edu by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #30560) id <0H2Y01D01YR7FL@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:59:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from webmail ([147.153.1.20]) by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V6.1-1 #30560) with ESMTP id <0H2Y01AAEYR7ZT@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:59:31 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:36:17 -0600 From: Brad Kaplan Subject: RE: [freestyle] New Move To: freestyle Message-id: <3D802776@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-WebMail-UserID: kaplanb X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002971 X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >===== Original Message From Jyri Ilama ===== >I don't get it :) why couldn't it be in x-body position, really? I think >it'd be 3 adds if you really do the dex like whirl and the kick like in Because your kicking foot isn't actually behind your other leg which is a requirement for cross body. Does the move feel like 3 adds? Yes, but unfortunately it's not. Late, Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Sep 24 19:46:41 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8P2kfBq007561 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:46:41 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8P2kfSW007559 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:46:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from computer ([65.81.20.10]) by imf10bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with SMTP id <20020925024353.MEAL7035.imf10bis.bellsouth.net@computer> for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:43:53 -0400 Message-ID: <003a01c26457$1296cbc0$0a145141@computer> From: "Nicholas Ribera" To: "Footbag List" Subject: [freestyle] Trick Question Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:47:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I know this is low on the add list, although I was wondering if there is a name for this trick ( I don't know job's notation)- outside delay (left)> pop up the sack, spin body approximately 180 degrees and catch the sack in a clipper (left). I am sorry if I am wasting anyone's time with such a low add move, but I am a beginner, and this is what I have been tackling recently. Nicky (the best sack player in Miami) From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Sep 25 12:21:56 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8PJLtBq014511 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:21:55 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8PJLtnA014508 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:21:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 01:32:16 -0700 Received: from 63.60.196.79 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:32:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.60.196.79] From: "Jeremy O'Wheel" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Trick Question Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:32:16 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2002 08:32:16.0457 (UTC) FILETIME=[0E0AE390:01C2646E] X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'd just call that a spinning clipper! and it must be a three add move: outside> spin [bod] > same clip [xbd][del]. Good work Jeremy! >From: "Nicholas Ribera" >To: "Footbag List" >Subject: [freestyle] Trick Question >Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:47:45 -0700 > >I know this is low on the add list, although I was wondering if there is a >name for this trick ( I don't know job's notation)- outside delay (left)> >pop up the sack, spin body approximately 180 degrees and catch the sack in >a >clipper (left). I am sorry if I am wasting anyone's time with such a low >add >move, but I am a beginner, and this is what I have been tackling recently. > >Nicky (the best sack player in Miami) From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Sep 25 19:33:30 2002 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8Q2XUBq011795 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:33:30 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id g8Q2XUvZ011793 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:33:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from EzShredz@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id z.181.f0042d3 (15900) for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m31.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v88.21) with ESMTP id MAILINID93-0925170146; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:01:46 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:01:46 -0400 From: EzShredz@aol.com To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Eggbeater Help Message-ID: <307C75C7.0A0A59A5.00748E77@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list, I was just wondering if anyone out there could give me some help? I have been trying to hit eggbeater for a week or two now and I just can't get the leg all the way over at the end. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Easy, Nick Miller