From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 1 23:37:27 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h027bQ5T004331 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 23:37:26 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h027bQf1004329 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 23:37:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (dsnat [216.200.145.62]) by omta01.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 717621C407A for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 23:30:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 3997D43C6; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 23:30:38 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 23:30:38 -0800 (PST) From: Vadim Dukhovny To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Weird move--Gyro Blender? Reply-To: dohovenus@planet-save.com X-Originating-Ip: [67.121.190.155] Message-Id: <20030102073038.3997D43C6@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hidey-ho, shredarinos, I was doing a weird move the other day that goes like this: I'd set from my right clipper, back spin without planting, same whirl, and catch on the same clipper. When I worked it out, it sounded like Gyro Blender, but the dex was more like a swirl-turned-whirl thing, and my "spin" didn't even involve turning on my pivot foot. Is this the elusive "Gyro Blender?" Or does this move not exist because there's so little spin? Regards, Vadim. Locrian for life. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 2 17:47:51 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h031loxf006520 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:47:50 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h031lof3006518 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:47:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from 1sgpz01 (syr-24-59-91-59.twcny.rr.com [24.59.91.59]) by mailout5-0.nyroc.rr.com (8.11.6/RoadRunner 1.20) with SMTP id h02FFUF08162 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:15:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001c01c2b272$a4f91b80$3b5b3b18@twcny.rr.com> From: "Nate Linscot" To: References: <200212300140.gBU1eJ3P007482@llic.net> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Stepping set tips? Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:21:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Pablo and other pre-ripwalkers, Not a lame question at all. Stepping is hard and takes a lot of strength and control, no matter how easy the pros make it look The first thing you need is super confidence and control of your clipper. when i first started stepping all i did was let the bag hit my foot and wing it back up. that doesn't work. you need momentum. once you can catch a clipper bring the bag down an inch or two hold it for a split second than wing it back up you are half way there.also really jump down with your support leg, and give it some decent bend, this is the start of the momentum you will need. Once you have that, its just having the strength to push your leg up and over the bag. the ability to do that comes from the amount of momentum you gained during your clipper. It should not feel like a mirage at all. it should feel like a step. also depending on the move you want to do you need to move your body with the step. If you start on a left side clipper and want to end on a right butterfly you have to move your body that much. the bag doesn't need to move as much as your hips and body does. Hope that helps. Don't get discouraged if you can't do it, it comes with time. Try moves like whirl, symp mirage and thousands of butterflys, they will help. Feel lucky to only be a freshman and to have found such a great sport. A possible goal for sophomore year: butterfly>ripwalk>ripwalk>blur. Always shredding, Nate Linscott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pavel Belchev" To: Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 3:36 PM Subject: [freestyle] Stepping set tips? > Hello list > I know this would sound way too lame but anyway, > I find the stepping set way too difficult (compared to the pixie set, for instance) > so any hint && tip would be greatly appreciated. > > Please be gentle, I'm a freshman > > Marry xmas && happy new year > > Pablo > > Sofia, Bulgaria > From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jan 5 16:15:44 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h060FiXw017752 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:15:44 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h060Fi2c017750 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:15:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from gfzjg01 ([141.149.41.238]) by pop015.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030104164842.MDGO21001.pop015.verizon.net@gfzjg01> for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:48:42 -0600 Message-ID: <000e01c2b411$4745ddc0$ee29958d@gfzjg01> From: "Jen Davis" To: Subject: [freestyle] Tips for learning new tricks? Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:49:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at pop015.verizon.net from [141.149.41.238] at Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:48:41 -0600 X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Clear Day Hey all, I am semi-new to this and was wondering if you had any tips for learning new tricks. Should I practice a trick first and then try to incorporate it or should I get a good run going and then just go for it? Also do you have any tips on performing stalls? I'm having a bit of trouble with them. Thanks for your help, Jen From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jan 5 16:25:48 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h060Pm1U018154 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:25:48 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h060PmKs018152 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:25:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (dsnat [216.200.145.62]) by omta02.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3B1F1C361D for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:13:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id B8A053DE9; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:13:14 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:13:14 -0800 (PST) From: Vadim Dukhovny To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Footbag Fugues Reply-To: dohovenus@planet-save.com X-Originating-Ip: [67.121.188.35] Message-Id: <20030106001314.B8A053DE9@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The way a fugue (piece of polyphonic music adhering to laws of counterpoint; master was J.S. Bach, who wrote them during the Baroque (one "r") period) works is that one theme repeats itself throughout a piece with all kinds of variations, in different keys, in different voices, etc. So, why not add this to a routine? For example, start off with this three-move string: Butterfly>Pick-up>Illusion Very plain, just like all of Bach's themes by themselves. So you hit that, shred for a while, and then throw in something like this: Tap Down>Tapping Pick-up>Tapping Illusion Shred for a while, and then this: Spinning Butterfly>Spinning Pick-up>Spinning Illusion Get it? Each time, add the same element to all of the moves, so that the initial idea is clear. Now, if Bach had just stuck to this, fugues would be boring as hell. You might want to reverse them all, or add a Symposium Mirage in-between each, or whatever. Unfortunately, I don't have an adequate video camera, but someone has got to tape someone else doing this! I think that if done commonly, it would have the same appeal as a fugue. Regards, Vadim. Locrian for life. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jan 6 21:42:52 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h075gq1i011741 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:42:52 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h075gqVH011739 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:42:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:07:28 -0800 Received: from 207.34.91.190 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 05:07:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.34.91.190] From: "Kevin Regamey" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Tips for learning new tricks? Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 22:07:28 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jan 2003 05:07:28.0283 (UTC) FILETIME=[ACAE56B0:01C2B60A] X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Also do you have any >tips on performing stalls? I'm having a bit of trouble with them. Hey Jen. I'm actually pretty new to footbag myself, having only been styling hardcore since September, and therefore am somewhat weary of writing a tutorial. It's based on what I've learned, and what has worked for me, so if anyone out there wants to add to my ideas, or otherwise criticize my ideas, go for it. So. As far as stalling is concerned, I've found that the following is how I learn(ed) them: 1) Mainly, the surface you’re stalling on has got to be level. If it isn’t, the bag’s going to roll or bounce off. 2) Your foot (or other stalling surface) has pretty much got to be in a downward motion when the bag hits it. 3) So, now that you've got your foot in a downward motion, think that whatever distance your foot travels vertically, the bag should hit it at the middle point of the motion. So if you move your foot vertically 6 inches, it should hit it at the 3 inch mark. It may seem like a strange way of explaining it, but it seems to work. 4) Also, with stalls in which it's hard to have any vertical motion (due to flexibility problems), bending your support leg can get you a little more of a cushioning factor. I know this helped me a lot early on when my foot wasn't bending the way I wanted yet. Well, that's the technical-ish part. Now for the actual learning process: 1) Start as *easy as you can make it*. Don't try to set it from your foot into the stall you want. Practice so that all of your focus can be directed on the stall itself. Once that comes, you can get into more elaborate stuff like sets and dex no problem. 2) Start by dropping it vertically near your foot. ie: If you want to practice your right toe stall, don't drop it from chest-height. Instead, start by dropping it from about knee-level. Once you figure you've got that good enough, move to a higher altitude. Soon enough you can be literally throwing it in the air and stalling without any difficulty. 3) Do it *a lot*. Just drop. Stall. Repeat x a lot. Once you've done that, do it some more. It may seem to be a ridiculous amount of boring...well, it *is* boring, but once you've got the stalls down-pat, you can bust some sweet stuff a lot easier, and a lot more consistently, than if you'd tried it before. 4) Make up drills for yourself. Once you've got the stalls to a point where you're quite comfortable with them, do them in sequence. Just start with two separate stalls in repetition. Make a table, linking any two stalls together. Maybe: toe > same or opp toe inside > same or opp inside inside > same or opp outside clipper > same or opp clipper toe > same or opp sole As you can see, there's a whole load of possibilities, but that's how it is. If you push yourself to do these drills, you'll be busting stuff quicker than you'd expect. I know I am. :) - Kevin Regamey Edmonton, AB From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jan 6 23:07:36 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0777a4k014402 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:07:36 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0777aBU014400 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:07:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from I (brat.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0777Z4l014396 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:07:36 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000e01c2b411$4745ddc0$ee29958d@gfzjg01> References: <000e01c2b411$4745ddc0$ee29958d@gfzjg01> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:07:27 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Tips for learning new tricks? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jen, See http://www.footbag.org/faq/show/learnfreestyle And then see http://www.footbag.org/newmoves/search/* and learn each of those tricks in order if you can. This list however is for advanced freestyle discussion, so please try to find folks near you who can actually teach you up close and personal. While it'd be nice if you could learn through e-mail (and it is possible) it's a lot better if you find a teacher (see the FAQ entry above for references). Most players are willing to teach, so don't be shy to ask an advanced player near you -- no matter what your level. Thanks. Steve At 11:49 AM -0500 1/4/03, Jen Davis wrote: >I am semi-new to this and was wondering if you had any tips for learning new >tricks. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jan 6 23:30:59 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h077UwcB014936 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:30:58 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h077UwcT014934 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:30:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (from www@localhost) by mail25.bigmailbox.com (8.11.6/8.10.0) id h072Y2525005; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:34:02 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:34:02 -0800 Message-Id: <200301070234.h072Y2525005@mail25.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [24.128.13.123] From: "Neil Bornstein" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Footbag Fugues X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Have you heard of table music? I think table music was done by Mozart but I'm not sure. The way it worked was that two musicians would sit across a table from one another with one piece of music before them. Each would start at their respective beginnings and the song would work in harmony. (For example one person's high F would be the other's low E on treble cleff.) I suppose in footbag, this would mean that one person does a run, while the other does the same run in reverse. (One person's paradon becomes the other's barrage), or find tricks "harmonious" with each other. Regards, Neil Phrygian for Life >Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:13:14 -0800 (PST) > Vadim Dukhovny freestyle@footbag.org [freestyle] Footbag FuguesReply-To: dohovenus@planet-save.com > >The way a fugue (piece of polyphonic music adhering to laws of counterpoint; master was J.S. Bach, who wrote them during the Baroque (one "r") period) works is that one theme repeats itself throughout a piece with all kinds of variations, in different keys, in different voices, etc. >So, why not add this to a routine? >For example, start off with this three-move string: >Butterfly>Pick-up>Illusion >Very plain, just like all of Bach's themes by themselves. >So you hit that, shred for a while, and then throw in something like this: >Tap Down>Tapping Pick-up>Tapping Illusion >Shred for a while, and then this: >Spinning Butterfly>Spinning Pick-up>Spinning Illusion >Get it? Each time, add the same element to all of the moves, so that the initial idea is clear. Now, if Bach had just stuck to this, fugues would be boring as hell. You might want to reverse them all, or add a Symposium Mirage in-between each, or whatever. Unfortunately, I don't have an adequate video camera, but someone has got to tape someone else doing this! I think that if done commonly, it would have the same appeal as a fugue. > >Regards, > >Vadim. > >Locrian for life. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 7 13:31:42 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h07LVgKl009252 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:31:42 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h07LVgjJ009250 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:31:42 -0800 Message-Id: <200301072131.h07LVgjJ009250@llic.net> X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from rwcrwbc72 ([204.127.198.102]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <20030107165444051001sv5ee>; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:54:44 +0000 Received: from [198.239.63.102] by rwcrwbc72; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 16:53:25 +0000 From: jane-jones@attbi.com To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Footbag Fugues Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 16:53:25 +0000 X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Nov 5 2002) X-Authenticated-Sender: amFuZS1qb25lc0BhdHRiaS5jb20= X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I thought I would throw this out there... Daryl Genz did a routine to a fugue (or part of one) several years ago at a World Championship tournament. Fugue & Tocatta (not sure by who). It was when I was still living in Boulder, so it must have been pre-98...95? 96? Hmmmmm... Daryl, are you out there? Anyway, it's funny you brought up the fugue thing because I had just burned Fugue & Tocatta to cd right before reading the post. What a coincidence. Adios, Jane > Have you heard of table music? I think table music was done by Mozart but I'm > not sure. The way it worked was that two musicians would sit across a table > from one another with one piece of music before them. Each would start at their > respective beginnings and the song would work in harmony. (For example one > person's high F would be the other's low E on treble cleff.) I suppose in > footbag, this would mean that one person does a run, while the other does the > same run in reverse. (One person's paradon becomes the other's barrage), or find > tricks "harmonious" with each other. > > Regards, > > Neil > > Phrygian for Life > > >Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:13:14 -0800 (PST) > > Vadim Dukhovny freestyle@footbag.org [freestyle] > Footbag FuguesReply-To: dohovenus@planet-save.com > > > >The way a fugue (piece of polyphonic music adhering to laws of counterpoint; > master was J.S. Bach, who wrote them during the Baroque (one "r") period) works > is that one theme repeats itself throughout a piece with all kinds of > variations, in different keys, in different voices, etc. > >So, why not add this to a routine? > >For example, start off with this three-move string: > >Butterfly>Pick-up>Illusion > >Very plain, just like all of Bach's themes by themselves. > >So you hit that, shred for a while, and then throw in something like this: > >Tap Down>Tapping Pick-up>Tapping Illusion > >Shred for a while, and then this: > >Spinning Butterfly>Spinning Pick-up>Spinning Illusion > >Get it? Each time, add the same element to all of the moves, so that the > initial idea is clear. Now, if Bach had just stuck to this, fugues would be > boring as hell. You might want to reverse them all, or add a Symposium Mirage > in-between each, or whatever. Unfortunately, I don't have an adequate video > camera, but someone has got to tape someone else doing this! I think that if > done commonly, it would have the same appeal as a fugue. > > > >Regards, > > > >Vadim. > > > >Locrian for life. > From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 9 17:56:24 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0A1uOGh011502 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:56:24 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0A1uOxY011500 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:56:24 -0800 Message-Id: <200301100156.h0A1uOxY011500@llic.net> X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from [209.210.166.198] by web40805.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 17:53:25 PST Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:53:25 -0800 (PST) From: Lon Smith Subject: [freestyle] World Records List Help To: freestyle@list.footbag.org In-Reply-To: <200301072326.h07NQ2ac014820@llic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Shredders, My name is Lon Smith and I have been working on a list of world records. It is near complete now but I need help with accuracy. Anyone who can send corrections or additions to me at lonsmithicus@yahoo.com will rewarded with much thanks. Joe Crain set up the site for me. It is located at http://www.visionpcservices.com/footbag-records/ Thanks. Sincerely Lonsmithicus@yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 17 16:37:40 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0I0bddp012942 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:37:39 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0I0bdQq012940 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:37:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:54:56 -0800 Received: from 199.216.95.100 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:54:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [199.216.95.100] From: "Kevin Regamey" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Two Paradox adds? Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:54:55 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2003 15:54:56.0529 (UTC) FILETIME=[73584010:01C2BCAE] X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org So, I was thinking the other day: If you nuclear/shooting set from your right clipper, you get a Paradox add from the set. That makes sense to me. The problem for me lies in how it negates the possibility of a "Downtime" paradox add. For example: 1. Right clipper set > Torque (Ends on Right Clipper) vs. 2. Right clipper set > Pdx Torque (Ends on Left Clipper) But what happens if you nuclear or shooting set into either of those? Does it make a difference? Here's both with a nuclear set: 1. "Nuclear Torque" Clip > same out [Dex][Pdx] > op in [Dex] > (back) spin [Bod] > op Clip [Xbd][Del] That's 6 add. 2. "Nuclear Pdx Torque" Clip > same out [Dex][Pdx](plant) > same in [Dex]* > {back) spin [Bod] > op Clip [Xbd][Del] That's also 6 add. *where the Pdx add would be in a regular Pdx Torque. A Torque is 4 add, and a Paradox Torque is 5. When you add a nuclear set to both tricks, it renders them both 6 add. That doesn't make sense to me. I can see why that's the way it is, but the idea in itself doesn't make sense. Is it that there isn't enough difference in difficulty between 1. and 2. to account for another add? If my idea of two paradox adds would work, we'd have to delve into the nether-regions of "Uptime" and "Downtime" Paradox adds. That could possibly make some sense, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. Aight then, just wanted to share my thoughts. Kevin Regamey Edmonton, AB From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jan 17 16:57:15 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0I0vEx7013842 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:57:14 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0I0vEHI013840 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:57:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from I (brat.footbag.org [209.125.90.60]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0I0vDx8013836 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:57:14 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@209.125.90.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:56:55 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Two Paradox adds? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org One doesn't "get" adds. Moves have additional levels of difficulty (adds). Moves have adds. Players don't earn them. But yeah, there's no reason why there can't be moves that have double paradoxes. :-) Steve At 8:54 AM -0700 1/15/03, Kevin Regamey wrote: >So, I was thinking the other day: > >If you nuclear/shooting set from your right clipper, you get a >Paradox add from the set. That makes sense to me. The problem for >me lies in how it negates the possibility of a "Downtime" paradox >add. For example: > >1. Right clipper set > Torque (Ends on Right Clipper) > vs. >2. Right clipper set > Pdx Torque (Ends on Left Clipper) > >But what happens if you nuclear or shooting set into either of >those? Does it make a difference? > >Here's both with a nuclear set: > >1. "Nuclear Torque" >Clip > same out [Dex][Pdx] > op in [Dex] > (back) spin [Bod] > op >Clip [Xbd][Del] > That's 6 add. > >2. "Nuclear Pdx Torque" >Clip > same out [Dex][Pdx](plant) > same in [Dex]* > {back) spin >[Bod] > op Clip [Xbd][Del] > That's also 6 add. >*where the Pdx add would be in a regular Pdx Torque. > > >A Torque is 4 add, and a Paradox Torque is 5. When you add a >nuclear set to both tricks, it renders them both 6 add. That >doesn't make sense to me. I can see why that's the way it is, but >the idea in itself doesn't make sense. > >Is it that there isn't enough difference in difficulty between 1. >and 2. to account for another add? > >If my idea of two paradox adds would work, we'd have to delve into >the nether-regions of "Uptime" and "Downtime" Paradox adds. That >could possibly make some sense, but I'm not sure it's worth the >trouble. > >Aight then, just wanted to share my thoughts. > > >Kevin Regamey Edmonton, AB From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 23 18:47:32 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0O2lWlo014346 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:47:32 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0O2lWvL014344 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:47:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:50:25 -0800 Received: from 216.27.144.67 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 03:50:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [216.27.144.67] From: "Stan Sagalovskiy" To: freestyle@footbag.org Cc: qphox@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] Two Paradox adds? Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 22:50:24 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jan 2003 03:50:25.0362 (UTC) FILETIME=[BBBFD320:01C2BEA4] X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, If you account for the x-dex, nuclear torque (nuclear set -> op torque) would become 7 adds and nuclear/paradox tapping torque (nuclear set -> same torque) would remain 6. Consider atomic torque versus tapping torque: atomic is 6 adds, tapping is 5. -stan P.S. My x-dex question: does fusion get an x-dex? >A Torque is 4 add, and a Paradox Torque is 5. When you add a nuclear set >to both tricks, it renders them both 6 add. That doesn't make sense to me. > I can see why that's the way it is, but the idea in itself doesn't make >sense. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jan 23 18:51:00 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0O2oxlo014448 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:50:59 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0O2oxOA014446 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:50:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from [66.112.65.219] (HELO fogles.net) by foundationcomputing.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.8) with ESMTP id 3252689 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:05:47 -0600 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 18:18:12 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Two Paradox adds? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Derrick Fogle To: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <7F10F5F1-2B43-11D7-836E-000393C7877A@fogles.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Friday, January 17, 2003, at 06:56 PM, Steve Goldberg wrote: > But yeah, there's no reason why there can't be moves that have double > paradoxes. :-) Which reminds me: Has anyone hit the basic "Double Paradox" move yet? clip > same in [dex][pdx] > op in [dex][ 2nd pdx? ] > same clip [xbd][del] Basically a paradox set on one side to a drifter landing on the other side. It's sort of a collision move, but with all the other crazy stuff people can hit, I know someone could hit this, too. I've come pretty close - got it through the legs a few times - but never landed it. -Derrick From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jan 27 11:37:50 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0RJbn6G013380 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:37:49 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0RJbnie013378 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:37:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from noah (wnpgmb01dc6-res-44-25.mts.net [142.161.44.25]) by smtp1.mts.net (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id h0QCxB905614 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 06:59:11 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001401c2c53a$bb63a540$0300a8c0@noah> Reply-To: "Erik Chan" From: "Erik Chan" To: References: Subject: [freestyle] Hackrifice January 2003 Videos Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 06:59:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list! Here are some more videos courtesy of Hackrifice: http://www.hackrifice.com/shred/hackrificejanuary2003.wmv (12.7mb/5:55min) http://www.hackrifice.com/shred/030117.wmv (9.9mb/4:36min) Peace! Erik Chan http://www.hackrifice.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jan 27 15:53:44 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0RNrihN024043 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:53:44 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0RNriKZ024041 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:53:44 -0800 Message-Id: <200301272353.h0RNriKZ024041@llic.net> X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from rwcrwbc55 (rwcrwbc55.attbi.com[204.127.198.44]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2003012720054005100hsom7e>; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:05:40 +0000 Received: from [198.239.63.63] by rwcrwbc55; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:05:37 +0000 From: Jane Jones To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Freestyle Overall Champion Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:05:37 +0000 X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Nov 5 2002) X-Authenticated-Sender: amFuZS1qb25lc0BhdHRiaS5jb20= X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey there, I was thinking about how it is a rarity to have an overall competitor at World's now that the level of play in each dicipline (net and freestyle) is so high. How about having an Overall Freestyle champion. The champion would be determined by the highest combined score from Shred 30, Big 3, singles routine and doubles routine. I'm curious what you guys think about that idea. -Jane From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jan 27 16:01:14 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0S01DXn024356 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:01:13 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0S01DdM024354 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:01:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dialup-65.56.131.215.dial1.chicago1.level3.net (HELO cic) (pornstar2713@prodigy.net@65.56.131.215 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2003 17:37:20 -0000 Message-ID: <000d01c2c4a9$2d602cf0$0100a8c0@cic> From: "Dan Klokow" To: Subject: [freestyle] New Vid from 2002 Worlds Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 11:37:17 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everyone, There is a new vid out, made by me, from Worlds 2002. To get a copy email me privately. Thanks. Dan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jan 27 20:03:13 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0S43DiR000904 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:03:13 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0S43DxV000902 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:03:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from rains.umail.ucsb.edu ([128.111.151.216] helo=localhost) by sakall.umail.ucsb.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #3) id 18dLLt-000LcZ-00 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:19:53 -0800 Received: from R182165.resnet.ucsb.edu (R182165.resnet.ucsb.edu [128.111.182.165]) by webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu (IMP) with HTTP for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:19:52 -0800 Message-ID: <1043720392.3e35e8c84f106@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:19:52 -0800 From: Jeremy Mirken To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle Overall Champion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1.1-cvs X-Scanner: exiscan *18dLLt-000LcZ-00*xhukMQDD3s.* (U-Mail Electronic Communications - UCSB) X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jane, Wow, that's a really good idea! I might encourage peeps like Chad D., S. Davidson, Richie Abshire, Piltz, Yacine, Zerbe, Mulroney, etc. who place consistently high in the 2 min. freestyle routines, to venture forth and enter the seemingly fading doubles freestyle event, in addition to the 30 sec shred and big 3 in which most shredders like to compete. Just some thoughts. Jeremy "Senor Grommet" Mirken -- Jeremy Mirken hackman@umail.ucsb.edu From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon Jan 27 21:07:20 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0S57JoT002780 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:07:19 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0S57JUO002778 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:07:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from fairhurst.com (ip179.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.179]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h0S4w7o15349 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:58:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E360DDD.3050104@fairhurst.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:58:05 -0800 From: Nathan Fairhurst User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Reverse Paradox Idea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Okay, I have figured out the details of my idea for a Reverse Paradox. Though if this were to be implemented it would probably have to have a different name in order to avoid confusion. To recap, a Reverse Paradox would be the exact opposite Paradox. Usually a trick has a Paradox add when it starts at a Cross Body and goes to a Same In Dexterity. The trick has the extra body add because it takes a lot of precise movement to achieve the Same In Dex. Because a Reverse Paradox would be the opposite, it would end the trick in an Out Dexterity to a Same Cross Body Delay. This is the same kind of S movement in a normal Paradox, only done starting from the top rather than the bottom. Normally, to Paradox a trick, it starts in a Clip > Op in, and then everything remains the same, but the setting foot is switched, changing it to a Clip > Same In. For example Ripwalk: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > OP CLIP [XBD] [DEL] Paradox Ripwalk: CLIP > SAME IN [PDX] [DEX] (plant) > OP OUT [DEX] > OP CLIP [XBD] [DEL] To Reverse Paradox a Move it would be much of the same thing, you would take a trick normally involving a Out > Op clip, and keep everything the same, but switch the side of the catching leg. Rendering it an Out > Same Clip. For example Ripwalk: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > OP CLIP [XBD] [DEL] Reverse Paradox Ripwalk: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > SAME CLIP [RPX]* [XBD] [DEL] You'll notice going through the move list that there are almost no moves that end in an Out > Same Clip. But plenty involve an Out > Op Clip. This is likely because it is so much more difficult to end in a Same Clip and is currently worth the same amount of adds as an Op Clip. Implementing this idea may create more of a variety in tricks. Also, with a Reverse Paradox, a trick could essentially have two Paradoxes. For Example Rip Walk CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > OP CLIP [XBD] [DEL] Reverse Paradox Paradox Ripwalk CLIP > SAME IN [PDX] [DEX] (plant) > OP OUT [DEX] > SAME CLIP [RPX] [XBD] [DEL] Anyway, let me know what you think. -Nathan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 28 01:57:38 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0S9vcmL010102 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:57:38 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0S9vcCo010100 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:57:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:07:46 -0800 Received: from 66.73.250.22 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:07:46 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.73.250.22] From: "Tim Werner" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse Paradox Idea Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 03:07:46 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2003 09:07:46.0545 (UTC) FILETIME=[B94F4610:01C2C6AC] X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What you are talking about is a reverse drifter, sometimes referred to as a grifter. It is a good idea, but a specific move can't really be a concept. Just for the record, paradox does not have to be an in to out dex (think, paradox illusion, sumo, etc). You are correct in observing that this move does have the same S motion, and, in fact, one of the moves you gave as an example (blurry grifter, which you called reverse paradox ripwalk) gets a paradox add already. Also, I'm not an expert on the subject, but it's a full dex, so moves that end in grifter are well on the way towards getting an X-dex. On the subject of fueling more diversity in tricks, I'm all for that, but I don't think the problem here is that reverse drifter is getting stiffed on adds, (I don't think I'm being idealistic when I say that there are plenty of people who do tricks regardless of their add value) it's just that not too many people have tapped into this move because it's hard. I've seen a few "simple" variations of it; Royale: paradox grifter, Blurry grifter, pixie grifter, reverse vortex, and reverse tombstone (stepping same grifter). I'm sure there have been others hit, but those are the ones I've seen with my eyes, or on video. Those are my two cents. -Tim Werner Chicago Inner Circle. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 28 01:56:27 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0S9uQmL010077 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:56:26 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0S9uQ2D010075 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:56:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from attbi.com (12-239-204-73.client.attbi.com[12.239.204.73]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with SMTP id <2003012806261900300jicvke>; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:26:19 +0000 Message-ID: <3E36255F.3A7A3728@attbi.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 00:38:23 -0600 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nathan Fairhurst , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse Paradox Idea References: <3E360DDD.3050104@fairhurst.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Nathan Fairhurst wrote: > > Reverse Paradox Ripwalk: > > CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX] > SAME CLIP [RPX]* [XBD] [DEL] This move already has the paradox. It is a blurry reverse drifter... (does reverse drifter have a name?) The notation would be as follows: CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > OP OUT [DEX][pdx] > SAME CLIP [XBD] [DEL] > Reverse Paradox Paradox Ripwalk > > CLIP > SAME IN [PDX] [DEX] (plant) > OP OUT [DEX] > SAME CLIP [RPX] > [XBD] [DEL] If you count the xdex, it would replace the [rpx] in your notation. xdex refers to the second "complete" dexterity. A "complete" dexterity is one where your leg *passes* both over *and* under the bag in the same dex. In a ripwalk, both dexes just pass over the bag, so neither are complete. In your 'reveres paradox paradox ripwalk' (or paradox blurry reverse drifter) both dexes are complete. So... the second complete dex is the xdex. When including xdex, Notation is as follows: CLIP > SAME IN [PDX] [DEX] (plant) > OP OUT [xdex][DEX] > SAME CLIP [XBD] [DEL] All this talk about a second paradox add seems to be pretty well covered with xdex. Any thoughts? -Derric From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Jan 28 01:58:43 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0S9wgjQ010191 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:58:42 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0S9wgYf010189 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:58:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (dsnat [216.200.145.62]) by omta01.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D0C81C3AA4 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:27:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 2B5904206; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:27:50 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:27:49 -0800 (PST) From: Vadim Dukhovny To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Raw Shred, Rye Shred, old skool vids Reply-To: dohovenus@planet-save.com X-Originating-Ip: [67.122.113.28] Message-Id: <20030128042750.2B5904206@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list, Does anyone know where I can get Raw Shred or Rye Shred? I'd love to see some older skool shredders. I'm looking for other old skool videos, in general, so e-mail me back if you know where to get them. Thanks. Regards, Vadim. Locrian for life. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 29 00:06:22 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0T86MO4031119 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:06:22 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0T86MZg031117 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:06:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: by mail.centrum.cz id ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:04:48 +0100 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:04:48 +0100 From: Ales Zelinka To: X-Mailer: Centrum Mail 1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Subject: [freestyle] One important question Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20030128210449Z684137-27847+566@mail.centrum.cz> X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, I have one VERY important question. I read almost everything from this list and I've seen a LOT of good ideas. Is there any possibility that something could be changed? How many times we spoke about paradoxes?? And what happened?? NOTHING!!! And this is only one example. IFPA should do something. Please write your ideas. Ales From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 29 00:06:09 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0T868O4031108 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:06:08 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0T868bA031104 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:06:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (from www@localhost) by mail2.bigmailbox.com (8.11.6/8.10.0) id h0T3Mlf29276; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:22:47 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:22:47 -0800 Message-Id: <200301290322.h0T3Mlf29276@mail2.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [24.128.13.123] From: "Neil Bornstein" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Getting Back X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Okay, let's say, hypothetically that I've been hit by a drunk driver hard enough to break off pieces of the car. The impact broke my ribs, my head careened off the windshield, breaking my skull, and I flew through the air and hit my leg against a mailbox, which broke my shin bone into two separate pieces. So after I lay in a guy's driveway for half an hour, they find me and take me to a hospital where they have to do surgery to put a metal rod inside of my leg bone. So the question is, how do I get back to footbag. If anyone else has recovered from injuries are there exercises I should do? Is there anything else I could try? Thanks, "Thwap Man" Neil Bornstein PS The ribs and skull healed in four days (as opposed to the predicted 2+ weeks), and 2 weeks after the accident, I can walk again, so I'm close to recovery... From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 29 00:07:39 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0T87cO4031145 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:07:38 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0T87cNw031143 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:07:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from fairhurst.com (ip186.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.186]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h0T5hhQ05427 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 21:44:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3E376A0D.1040305@fairhurst.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 21:43:41 -0800 From: Nathan Fairhurst User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse Paradox Idea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org All right, here is another message to hopefully fill the holes a few people punched in my idea. First of all, I know that a paradox isn't required to start the move "Clip > Same In." There are lots of different exceptions made to the normal rule, with paradoxes all over the place. Likewise, this would apply to a Reverse Paradox, there would be plenty of exceptions to the rule of ending in "Out > Same Clip." Yes, this would be a Grifter. I know that, but it didn't seem something all that important to point out. However, let it be known for the recorded, that, yes, a reversed paradox trick--once again, it would need a different name--would simply end the trick in a grifter. Next, I should have looked up the moves that I was showing for a Reverse Paradox and Reverse Paradox Paradox Ripwalk. However, this was just to show the basic concept, and the Ripwalk was the easiest trick to show all the different paradoxes. As far as x-dex is concerned, maybe it does cover the double paradoxes, I don't really know, I can't hit paradox blurry reverse drifter. Maybe it is as difficult as most 7 add tricks and the reverse paradox idea could allow it to be worth 7 adds. However, maybe when x-dex is present you shouldn't get a reverse paradox add. Also, I used 'S shape' to stand for the 'double-hip-pivot' which, stated in the footbag.org paradox tutorial is the main reason that another add is given to paradox moves. "...a "paradox" move is awarded an extra "body" add (for the double-hip-pivot)." Lastly, here is my main reasoning as to *why* this should be implemented. A reverse paradox trick (anything ending in a grifter) would end in the same exact movement--just backwards--as a regular paradox. It *has* the double-hip-pivot. Why would we give one trick a body add, and not give the other one a body add? Also, if you read what I wrote about how to reverse paradox a trick, you would see the the most basic trick to reverse paradox would be a butterfly. This would render the butterfly a grifter. Grifter *is* harder than butterfly. And it is harder for the same reasons we give an extra add to normal paradox tricks. There are two main difficulty factors that give Paradox tricks an extra add. To quote Footbag.org again, they are: "(1) you have to "snake" your setting leg out from the cross-body position quickly and precisely in order to get back under the bag for the initial dexterity; (2) you have to really pivot your hips (more than usual) to perform the move -- first in one direction, then in the other." A reverse Paradox has those same things, only, once again, they are backwards. You have to 'snake' your leg over the bag and back behind the other leg quickly and precisely in order to get the the cross-body catch done in time. And I have already discussed the hip pivots. On could say in response to this idea that the add system obviously isn't perfect, and changing only this move won't really help. In many cases tricks are worth the same add and one is much harder than the other. But! The Reverse Paradox idea isn't really a new one. We are already giving extra adds to tricks that have a double-hip-pivot. So why not give another add to tricks that end in grifter? It has the extra difficulty. Anyway, there is my rebuttal. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 29 00:12:39 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0T8CdO4031249 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:12:39 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0T8Cde7031247 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:12:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:02:13 -0800 Received: from 208.40.143.89 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:02:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [208.40.143.89] From: "Michael Park" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse Paradox Idea Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:02:13 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jan 2003 00:02:13.0795 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD7BBF30:01C2C729] X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm assuming this was covered before i signed on to this cool little list, but what in the world is x-dex? >From: "Tim Werner" >To: Freestyle@footbag.org >Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse Paradox Idea >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 03:07:46 -0600 > >What you are talking about is a reverse drifter, sometimes referred to as a >grifter. It is a good idea, but a specific move can't really be a concept. >Just for the record, paradox does not have to be an in to out dex (think, >paradox illusion, sumo, etc). You are correct in observing that this move >does have the same S motion, and, in fact, one of the moves you gave as an >example (blurry grifter, which you called reverse paradox ripwalk) gets a >paradox add already. Also, I'm not an expert on the subject, but it's a >full dex, so moves that end in grifter are well on the way towards getting >an X-dex. On the subject of fueling more diversity in tricks, I'm all for >that, but I don't think the problem here is that reverse drifter is getting >stiffed on adds, (I don't think I'm being idealistic when I say that there >are plenty of people who do tricks regardless of their add value) it's just >that not too many people have tapped into this move because it's hard. I've >seen a few "simple" variations of it; Royale: paradox grifter, Blurry >grifter, pixie grifter, reverse vortex, and reverse tombstone (stepping >same grifter). I'm sure there have been others hit, but those are the ones >I've seen with my eyes, or on video. Those are my two cents. > >-Tim Werner >Chicago Inner Circle. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed Jan 29 00:29:17 2003 Received: from llic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0T8TGsV032033 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:29:16 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by llic.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h0T8TGU7032031 for freestyle-outgoing@list.footbag.org; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:29:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: llic.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pd6mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (pd6mr1so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.216]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9G00D3VVBUEU@l-daemon> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 01:23:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml10so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml10so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.80]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9G004ERVBU4Y@l-daemon> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 01:23:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from a1.footbag.org (h24-80-137-151.no.shawcable.net [24.80.137.151]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9G00EGJVBUVE@l-daemon> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 01:23:54 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:22:59 -0800 From: Allan Haggett Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse Paradox Idea X-Sender: allan@llic.net To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030129001155.00b831d8@llic.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Scanned-By: Spam Scanner (MIMEDefang 2.21, footbag edition) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, Michael Park wrote: >>but what in the world is xdex? After doing a very simple search in the archives for "x-dex" after indexing all posts from 2002 by the thread, I easily found this: http://list.footbag.org/majordomo/letter/freestyle?id=%3CDNEDLJDHPFFHJLPNOGHKEECPCGAA.ewulff%40footbag.org%3E The archives for the freestyle list are at: http://list.footbag.org/majordomo/index/freestyle I would ask that everybody - especially you newbies - do some simple searches in the recent years of the archives for answers to your questions *before* you post asking something that has very likely been discussed before. For those of us that have been here a while, it gets pretty old when the same questions get asked over and over again. Thanks, Allan