From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Nov 1 18:53:18 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA27611 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:52:42 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA27607 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:52:40 GMT Received: from dk713994@oak.cats.ohiou.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (27604) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA27602 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:52:36 GMT Received: from oak.cats.ohiou.edu (oak.cats.ohiou.edu [132.235.8.44]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA04626 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:54:17 -0700 Received: from localhost by oak.cats.ohiou.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/03Feb95-1128AM) id AA21391; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:00:35 -0500 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:00:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Darren R. Kautz" To: "Steven L. Goldberg" Cc: freestyle@footbag.org, TJ Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox -- toe set In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have never been under the impression that a blur from a toe set is paradox. I personally don't think that it has anything to do with paradox. While it is admittedly hard, I've always just assumed that it was three adds. It will be a cold day in hell when someone convinces me that you can do any paradox move from any set other than a cross-body. \ O Darren O / \ /\ Russell - /- . | \ Kautz / \ | From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Nov 1 19:14:59 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA27751 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 19:14:53 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA27747 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 19:14:52 GMT Received: from elklein@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (27744) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA27742 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 19:14:52 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA04860 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:16:33 -0700 Received: (from elklein@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.6/SAS 8.06) id OAA26243 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:17:15 -0500 (EST) From: elklein@sas.upenn.edu (Ethan L Klein) Posted-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:17:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611011917.OAA26243@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Deep thoughts To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:17:15 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > > Hello, A friend of mine and I were brainstorming yesterday, in an attempt > to come up with 4 or 5 add moves that didn't include any dexterities. > The only ones we came up with were spinning/gyro flying flapper, > spinning/gyro > cross-body sole stall, spinning/gyro pinching eclipse (don't know if this > can be done), double spinning/gyro clipper, gyrating diving clipper, > ducking/diving cross body sole, ducking/diving dragon, > > Questions this raises: > -do duck and dive count as dexterities? > -does dive get one more add than duck? > -Is a trick that begins by turning into the clipper set, and completes a > 360 degree rotation, referred to as "spinning" or "in-spin" or what? > -I'm referring here to the opposite of gyrating. > -Are people that pull dragons human? > -Or are their ankles made of silly puddy? > -How many of you have seen people pull flying stalls? (other than eclipse) > -I don't think I've ever seen it but it would be cool to do > flying clippers, which I guess would bear a resemblance to eclipses. > -What about diving, flying cross-body sole stall? > > -Side note-All you butterfly-swirlers out there, try butterfly swirl > infinities, I'm not at all close but that has got to look/feel SWEEEEET. > > Keep on Shreddin on, Ethan > > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Nov 1 19:24:43 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA27832 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 19:24:43 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA27828 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 19:24:42 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (27825) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA27823 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 19:24:41 GMT Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA04978 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:26:21 -0700 Received: from [17.255.9.137] (microbrat.research.apple.com [17.255.9.137]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA18492; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:25:49 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611011917.OAA26243@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:28:57 -0800 To: elklein@sas.upenn.edu (Ethan L Klein) From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Deep thoughts Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:17 AM -0800 11/1/96, Ethan L Klein wrote: >> Questions this raises: >> -do duck and dive count as dexterities? No; they are BODY moves as far as I know. I believe everyone agrees that "dexterity" is reserved for the FEET/LEGS. >> -does dive get one more add than duck? I don't know the answer. I think it's still just a body move. Some people say it's a "paradox" ducking move. If so maybe it gets two body adds? This is a good question I've been meaning to ask others. Anyone? >> -Is a trick that begins by turning into the clipper set, and completes a >> 360 degree rotation, referred to as "spinning" or "in-spin" or what? It's being called "in-spin" to clarify the direction of the spin. "Spinning" is just a little too generic these days. (Gyrating means spinning away from the set, not planting the dexterity foot, and performing a dexterity as you spin, generally. Don't hold me to this but it's the gist.) >> -Are people that pull dragons human? Yes, but barely. :-) >> -What about diving, flying cross-body sole stall? Come back down to earth now, Eth'. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Nov 1 21:24:03 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA28636 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 21:23:37 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA28632 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 21:23:36 GMT Received: from ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (28629) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA28627 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 21:23:32 GMT Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA06467 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:24:55 -0700 Received: from coinc0 (coinc0 [198.209.253.6]) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA17589; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:25:31 -0600 (CST) Received: by coinc0 (SMI-8.6) id PAA10249; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:25:30 -0600 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:25:29 -0600 (CST) From: Ida Bettis Fogle X-Sender: ifogle@coinc0 To: Ethan L Klein cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] judging system In-Reply-To: <199610311954.OAA26005@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, Ethan L Klein wrote: > Freestylers, The ongoing and sometimes tedious debate about paradoxness > has set my mind wandering about alternative judging stratagies for a > sport so amorpheous and undefinable as our beloved footbag freestyle. > > 1rst idea- have the four or five judges, instead of watching the > competitors, monitor and record the number and degree of jaw-droppage > amond the crowd. He/She who instigates the most net jaw droppage wins > the contest. Hmmmm....I see some merits to this. Can I invite my whole family? > > 2nd idea- No differentiation between places, everyone splits the prize > money and everyone wins. Performances are still given to impress the > crowd and fellow freestylers, but no selection of, "your the winner, your > the loser." I like this best! & this way everyone's free to develop their own style. Push that creativity! > > 3rd idea- circle up in normal circle form, which constitutes the true > nature of the sport, IMHO, and after a set time of shredding (30 minutes) > judges subjectively choose who ripped the hardest. I feel that one member > of the circle usually takes the reins on a given day and dominates. If > this doesn't happen, declare a draw. > ooh - I would do worst in this format & therefore am against it. If I think real hard I may come up with some objective reasons why it's bad, so I wouldn't have to be so honest about why I'd be against it. > 4th idea- if Carol or Sam are competing, they win. Nobody flows or > initiates awe like these two representational shredders, IMHO. Better idea - two divisions. 1. Sam & Carol 2. Everyone else > Ida Bettis Fogle; ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu sportsmom extraordinaire From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Nov 1 22:11:24 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA28974 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 22:11:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA28970 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 22:11:22 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (28967) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA28965 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 22:11:21 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA07201 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:13:01 -0700 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.6/SAS 8.06) id RAA01220; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:13:47 -0500 (EST) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Posted-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:13:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611012213.RAA01220@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Deep thoughts To: elklein@sas.upenn.edu (Ethan L Klein) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:13:46 -0500 (EST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <199611011917.OAA26243@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> from "Ethan L Klein" at Nov 1, 96 02:17:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > Questions this raises: > > -do duck and dive count as dexterities? Nope, as I have learnt since my last post. > > -does dive get one more add than duck? Nope, and this comes from the king of dives himself (Right, EWers?). > > -Is a trick that begins by turning into the clipper set, and completes a > > 360 degree rotation, referred to as "spinning" or "in-spin" or what? > > -I'm referring here to the opposite of gyrating. All 360 deg moves are spins. You can do a regular spin or an in spin (one way or the other) A gyrating move is a move that is set behind your back before the move. Example: Spinning butterfly ends in the set clipper (you do 360) Gyrating butterfly ends in non-setting clipper (set, spin 180 (so the bag travels behind your back), then go back and do butterfly) Essentially spinning is flowier, because for gyrating you have to go back the other way before doing the move. > > -Are people that pull dragons human? Sunil human? That's impossible. Laters, Alex From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 2 00:02:21 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA29748 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 00:02:10 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA29744 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 00:02:09 GMT Received: from humungis@kode.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (29741) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA29739 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 00:02:09 GMT Received: from bsd1.kode.net (bsd1.kode.net [206.42.219.3]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA08562 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:03:46 -0700 Received: from kodenet.kode.net (ppp-59.kode.net [206.42.219.78]) by bsd1.kode.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA22670 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 19:11:24 -0800 Message-ID: <327A8FB0.2BFB@Kode.net> Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 19:02:56 -0500 From: Paul Munger X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox -- toe set References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Darren R. Kautz wrote: > > I have never been under the impression that a blur from a toe set > is paradox. I personally don't think that it has anything to do with > paradox. While it is admittedly hard, I've always just assumed that it > was three adds. > It will be a cold day in hell when someone convinces me that you > can do any paradox move from any set other than a cross-body. > > \ O Darren > O / \ /\ Russell > - /- . | \ Kautz > / \ | > > > My thoughts are the same. Hu-Mungis From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 2 00:03:53 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA29769 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 00:03:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA29765 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 00:03:52 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (29762) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA29760 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 00:03:51 GMT Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA08572 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:05:19 -0700 Received: from [17.255.9.137] (microbrat.research.apple.com [17.255.9.137]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA42986 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:04:58 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:08:08 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: [freestyle] Type versus Difficulty Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I think part of the reason for the seeming inability of our group to settle on a definition of "paradox" is that we're arguing over two different aspects, without necessarily realizing it. The two aspects I see are: * PARADOX as the name for a TYPE of move (i.e., as a modifier for existing moves, e.g. paradox *torque* or paradox *mirage*); * PARADOX as an ADDITIONAL LEVEL OF DIFFICULTY (i.e., an ADD in the rating system). I want to explain that I have no particular argument with Paul's definition of paradox as the NAME for a TYPE of move (the first bullet above) -- i.e., what makes a existing paradox move the "paradox" version of another move is essentially defined by the set in relation to the original move. I don't have a problem with this. Other examples where we do this type of naming is with terms like "blurry", "gimping", "gyrating", "flying", "spinning", "symposium", "blind", "reverse", "heely", "dragon", "in-spin", "shooting", "ducking", "diving", "pogo", etc., etc., etc. For most of the examples above, we have a pretty simple way to explain what about the move makes it fit into one of these categories, and the mapping to the add-value system is pretty obvious. What I mean to say is that, in most cases, the relationship between the NAME of the move and the DIFFICULTY ELEMENT(s) involved is obvious. But we have always kind of glossed over WHY the paradox version of a move always gets a hash-mark in an add category (whatever category is irrelevant to this particular point) above and beyond the "normal" version of the same move. The belief has always been that (for whatever reason) the "paradox" version of a move is necessarily HARDER than the non-paradox version of the same move. But really sitting down and explaining why this is the case (in terms of the existing add categories) has been very difficult and has clearly created controversy. I think the reason is apparent -- there is no "paradox" add category, and if there were one it'd be really hard to define (as evidenced by our discussions thus far on this list). What I've been driving at with these arguments and by holding my position the way I have is that we don't really seem to agree at all on this second issue -- why in particular there's an extra add for "paradox" moves. In other words, what it is about doing a paradox version of a move that really makes it harder. It's not the set; it's not the dexterity; it's not the pick-up -- I'd venture to say that it seems to be *all* of these, in combination. All I've been trying to say is that, if we really look at why paradox moves are harder (and if we can come up with a good description of paradox that's as easy as any of the descriptions for the other modifiers listed above in my examples), it'll help *us* properly understand new moves and other moves that have similar difficulties -- or to clarify why those other moves don't fit into certain paradigms. Either way, a good mapping from paradox-as-a-type-of-move to paradox-as-a-difficulty-element needs to be arrived at. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 2 17:11:12 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA02588 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:10:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA02583 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:10:20 GMT Received: from dyun@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2580) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA02578 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:10:18 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA19898 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 10:12:08 -0700 Received: (from dyun@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.6/SAS 8.06) id MAA23690 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 12:12:49 -0500 (EST) From: dyun@sas.upenn.edu (Dennis Yun) Posted-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 12:12:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611021712.MAA23690@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] merits of ankle stretching To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 12:12:49 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello phreestyle phriends, The use of the 'ph' is in honor of the shred circle that I was part at the Hampton, VA Phish show last Friday. It was kind of shocking to see a circle of 6 or 7 pairs of Lavers in the Hampton Roads area (I live there). The loss of Sir Irish certainly didn't help the freestyle cause in that area... Anyway, back to my subject header. I was talking to a styler in Hampton who remarked how much his ankle flex had improved just by strecthing whenever he was sitting in a chair or whatever. Now, I've tried this before, but my ankles began to ache after a couple of days of this. Can anyone tell me the merits of this? How about advice on how to do this without causing injury? -Dennis Yun dyun@sas.upenn.edu From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 2 17:20:44 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA02675 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:20:43 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA02665 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:20:40 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2659) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA02657 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:20:40 GMT Received: from flowbee.interaccess.com (flowbee.interaccess.com [198.80.0.32]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA20038 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 10:22:27 -0700 Received: from [207.70.67.106] (d106.cloud2.interaccess.com [207.70.67.106]) by flowbee.interaccess.com (8.8.2/8.8.Beta.3) with SMTP id LAA04471; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 11:23:06 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 11:25:19 -0500 To: "Steven L. Goldberg" , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Deep thoughts Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! >>> -does dive get one more add than duck? >I don't know the answer. I think it's still just a body move. Some people >say it's a "paradox" ducking move. If so maybe it gets two body adds? >This is a good question I've been meaning to ask others. Anyone? 1 add absolutely. Kenny and I discussed this. Although if you ask Ironman, he will say it is 2 adds. I do believe it should be considered as a unique move (duck vs. dive) which is roughly 10 times more valuable than bickering over adds. >>> -Is a trick that begins by turning into the clipper set, and completes a >>> 360 degree rotation, referred to as "spinning" or "in-spin" or what? >It's being called "in-spin" to clarify the direction of the spin. >"Spinning" is just a little too generic these days. (Gyrating means >spinning away from the set, not planting the dexterity foot, and performing >a dexterity as you spin, generally. Don't hold me to this but it's the >gist.) Good jist. I love to spin, there are many subtleties (sp?) to be certain. Many moves are called "gyro" but aren't. That bothers me, but I can't go into it now. >>> -Are people that pull dragons human? >Yes, but barely. :-) It has been suggested that the "dragon" related moves be renamed into their own convention. In other words, the cross-body outside delay moves would be starting with the "q" sound. Quipper Delay, Quifter (drifter ending in dragon, which I have hit several times but it doesn't feel natural), Qwhirl, Quosis, Flying Quipper, Spinning Quipper to name a few. That way, the moves are immediately identifyable as "cross-body outside" moves. >> -Side note-All you butterfly-swirlers out there, try butterfly swirl >> infinities, I'm not at all close but that has got to look/feel SWEEEEET. I find these are easier to do than same side butterfly swirl. We can differentiate between them here, but in the current worlds style scoring, they are identical (butterfly swirl vs. infinity swirl). In the five point shred event we would probably make the butterfly swirl weighted heavier then infinity. >>> -What about diving, flying cross-body sole stall? Ethan, I love that you are thinking about huge unusual surface delay moves. I am working on some too: Osis ending in cross-body sole delay (4 adds) Cross body pinchers (from right side to osis, from left side to L whirl.) Spinning Cross body sole delay (4 adds) Cross body clouds Pinchwalks (5 adds) Spinning Cross-body pinchers (4 adds) And for Ethan and Penn State crew, 4 add moves that don't involve dexterities, above are some good ones. See ya! Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 2 17:20:45 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA02676 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:20:43 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA02670 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:20:42 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2664) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA02661 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:20:40 GMT Received: from flowbee.interaccess.com (flowbee.interaccess.com [198.80.0.32]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA20041 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 10:22:31 -0700 Received: from [207.70.67.106] (d106.cloud2.interaccess.com [207.70.67.106]) by flowbee.interaccess.com (8.8.2/8.8.Beta.3) with SMTP id LAA04474; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 11:23:12 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 11:25:24 -0500 To: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro), freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Deep thoughts Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers and Alex! >All 360 deg moves are spins. You can do a regular spin or an in spin >(one way or the other) >A gyrating move is a move that is set behind your back before the move. >Example: > >Spinning butterfly ends in the set clipper (you do 360) >Gyrating butterfly ends in non-setting clipper (set, spin 180 (so the bag >travels behind your back), then go back and do butterfly) Spinning butterfly isn't exactly 360. Maybe 300. Gyrating butterfly (also called gyro butterfly) is done without setting your dex leg down. See ya! Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 2 18:00:47 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA02917 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 18:00:46 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA02913 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 18:00:44 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2910) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA02908 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 18:00:43 GMT Received: from flowbee.interaccess.com (flowbee.interaccess.com [198.80.0.32]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA20573 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 11:02:31 -0700 Received: from [207.70.67.106] (d106.cloud2.interaccess.com [207.70.67.106]) by flowbee.interaccess.com (8.8.2/8.8.Beta.3) with SMTP id MAA04986 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 12:03:09 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 12:05:22 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: [freestyle] Full Shred Event (no longer "5-point shred" event) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Major changes made via conversations on phone and internet email responses (underlines or strike-thru indicate changes/deletions from previous post on my master document, but those don't show up in email, so I just deleted them)... Please re-read the entire document, as there are MANY changes. Note: I have changed the name of the event to "Full Shred" event. I have tried to highlight concepts when they are mentioned for the first time by using CAPS for those words, then when they are referred to later, they are Upper and Lower Case Caps. (i.e. KICKING ORDER DRAW the first time you see it, then Kicking Order Draw as it is referred to later.) *****FULL SHRED EVENT***** Objective: To have the highest scoring strings in the event, thereby attaining the most points to win. Why do we need a new event? Freestyle players are being pulled in two directions. On one hand, the "Worlds Style" judging system asks players to mix elements of dance, choreography, variety and execution, while simultaneously penalizing them for drops. Some members of the IFAB are lobbying for stronger drop penalties, *so* heavy that one drop would predetermine that a player could not win the event. They envision 90% of all routines to be dropless, with the norm being "no-drops," as opposed to the exception. On the other hand, the shredders and BAP are pushing the edge of difficulty and forcing the level of play towards such a difficult level, that inserting these moves into strings in the "Worlds Style" system is counterproductive. It increases the probability of a drop, so the obvious result will be to "play down" to the system. And because the competitions are often what is televised (or at least heavily promoted), that will mean that the most difficult strings (often done only by players currently practicing non-competition) will be seen less often in the public eye. When the top level players get together, they NEVER practice strings that would satisfy the "Worlds Style" scoring, they show off new combos and strings. Big tricks, back to back. Bigger combinations, more honor. Guiltless is the minimum, with many players pushing the tripless edge. Many of the best freestylers in the world choose not to compete because of the apparent (inherent) focus on "fluff" and non-shredding issues in the current judging system. This new suggestion allows for a further breakdown of unique moves in terms of add value, where we can create values to the tenth of a point. For example, the family of moves currently thought of as one single move because of the philosophy of the "worlds style" system ...double-over-down, paradon, barfly and down-double-down; can now be broken down to where their add values are 4.2, 4.4, 4.6 and 4.8. The Compromise: The Full Shred event allows players a structured opportunity to compete, while not removing them from their element. The event focuses on difficulty, execution and variety, scoring players in a similar style to Olympic Diving. The scoring can be done by one or two players and is completely objective. Rewarding players for difficulty and for the ability to string moves together. Description: * Each player will perform 3 different strings of 8 contacts each. * They can use similar tricks, but no more than 2 moves in the same order in different strings. (There is more honor in variety) * The competition will consist of "warm-up" circles of 3-4 players picked by random draw. This will be called the CIRCLE DRAW. * The kicking order will be selected by a different random draw. This will be called the KICKING ORDER DRAW. * There will be a HOT SPOT near the judges, players will be called to the Hot Spot according to the Kicking Order drawn prior to starting the round. * The Hot Spot is where the strings will be performed. * Tricks are submitted in advance, and must be performed in order. * Players can stray from their submitted strings. They gain a maximum of the whole number (rounded down) for the moves they substitute into their strings, until they get back to their submitted order (limit of 8 contacts). If they get back to their submitted order, they then get full point value for the move(s). * It is recommended that video verification is used, and can even be substituted for live judging if two cameras are available for taping. * If a drop occurs during a string, it is the end of that attempt. * The first add contact is called the INITIAL SET. * The second add contact is the first trick in the players selected string (this automatically allows for a set of some kind that is not counted in the scoring... remember their is more honor with higher add initial sets). * Judges will score everything up until the end of the eight contacts or the drop that ends the string. * The player can choose to make another attempt, but the second attempt becomes the final score. Player CANNOT choose the better score if a drop also shortens the second attempt. * ADJUSTED ADDS: A fractional score will be attached to all the moves (i.e. "off the top of my head" example: Double over down = 4.2, Paradon = 4.4, Barfly = 4.6, Down Double Down = 4.8) * Judges award 1 point to each contact and track the add values of the tricks in the string. (Keep in mind that we are using adjusted add values for submitted moves and rounded down values in whole numbers for substituted moves) * Scoring is totalled by multiplying the sum of the add values by the total number of contacts. * A canonical list will be created of tricks and their Adjusted Add Value. This will be attained through discussion of top players then published on paper and on the internet. Judging (similar to diving system) * Two judges. Or Two camera videotaping with remote judging by as many judges as want to participate. * Each trick is given 1 point. 5 8 points possible from each string. * SEALING A TRICK. Points are only given when the trick is "sealed". A trick is "sealed" when the footbag makes bodily contact after the contact that finishes the trick. (The definition of "sealing" is very open to discussion). * A drop is the end of the string. Judges will score up until the drop. * The score is completely objective, so both judges will assist each other in coming to an exact score. * Example of scoring: Player called to the Hot Spot and starts kicking, then does the "Initial Set" which could be any kind of add contact, but the higher the better (there is no score given for the initial set, so "only" your honor is at stake here). In this case the Initial Set is a Butterfly, the submitted string is: (keep in mind I am using values off the top of my head for example only and am still very insistent upon discussion to determine the actual values we will use in the event): Ripwalk (4.0), Paradox Whirl (4.1), Blender (4.4), Torque (4.2), Butterfly (3.0), Paradox Whirl (4.1), Down-Double-Down (4.8), Infinity Swirl (4.3). THE FORMULA: (SUM OF ADJUSTED ADD VALUES) X NUMBER OF CONTACTS / 2 = STRING SCORE (rounded to the nearest tenth) (By dividing by two, we soften the scores so the spreads look tighter and so we don't have to deal with cumulative numbers that end up being in the multiple thousands) Player 1 (4.0 + 4.1 + 4.4 + 4.2 + 3.0 + 4.1 + 4.8 + 4.3 [32.9]) X 8 [263.2] / 2 = 131.6 Player 2 (for examples sake, lets assume the player did the same string as player 1 but missed the second and third moves and Substituted osis's at 3.0 each) (4.0 + 4.1+ 3.0 + 3.0 + 3.0 + 4.1 + 4.8 + 4.3 [30.3]) X 8 [242.4] / 2 = 121.2 Players and judges do three strings per round, the scores are entered into a computer program developed in Filemaker Pro v.1.2 for Mac by Enlightener. Computer will do all calculations. After three strings, the per-round score is added up, lets say this player scored the same on each string in this round (very unlikely), 58.82 x 3 = 176.46, that would be a very good score. Two rounds of this (one per day in a 2 day tourney) would be plenty for a good event. The second round, players cannot use any of the same strings from first round. We need to discuss if we will be doing cumulative score for second round, that could make it interesting! (I recommend cumulative scoring in a completely objective format as this) SIMPLE, SWEET AND TO THE POINT! WHAT DO YOU THINK? I deleted a lot of stuff, reformatted stuff, added a lot of stuff. All from discussions I had with people via email and phone conversations. It all seems so much clearer now! Lets talk! See ya! Enlightener Scott Davidson From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 2 20:36:19 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03717 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:36:03 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03713 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:36:01 GMT Received: from ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3710) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA03708 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:36:00 GMT Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA22342; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 13:37:50 -0700 Received: from coinc0 (coinc0 [198.209.253.6]) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA04716; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:38:26 -0600 (CST) Received: by coinc0 (SMI-8.6) id OAA13605; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:38:24 -0600 Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:38:24 -0600 (CST) From: Ida Bettis Fogle X-Sender: ifogle@coinc0 To: Scott Davidson cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Drops was: Full Shred Event In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sat, 2 Nov 1996, Scott Davidson wrote: > > Some members of the IFAB are lobbying for stronger drop > penalties, *so* heavy that one drop would predetermine that a player could > not win the event. Would any other IFAB members care to comment on this? Ida Bettis Fogle; ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu sportsmom extraordinaire From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 3 01:48:13 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA05328 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:47:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA05324 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:47:58 GMT Received: from humungis@kode.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5321) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA05319 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:47:57 GMT Received: from bsd1.kode.net (bsd1.kode.net [206.42.219.3]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA25798 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 18:49:52 -0700 Received: from kodenet.kode.net (ppp-23.kode.net [206.42.219.42]) by bsd1.kode.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA11230 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:57:32 -0800 Message-ID: <327BF9F7.3D2A@Kode.net> Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 20:48:39 -0500 From: Paul Munger X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] footbag Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I saw on cartoon network some cartoons kicking a bag! Way Cool!!! It was Dial M for monkey. just thought I would tell ya all.hehehehe Hu-Mungis From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 3 02:00:19 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05423 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 02:00:18 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05417 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 02:00:16 GMT Received: from humungis@kode.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5412) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA05410 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 02:00:15 GMT Received: from bsd1.kode.net (bsd1.kode.net [206.42.219.3]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA25995 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 19:02:08 -0700 Received: from kodenet.kode.net (ppp-23.kode.net [206.42.219.42]) by bsd1.kode.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA11742 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 21:09:47 -0800 Message-ID: <327BFCD6.2E40@Kode.net> Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 21:00:54 -0500 From: Paul Munger X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] merits of ankle stretching References: <199611021712.MAA23690@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dennis Yun wrote: > > Hello phreestyle phriends, > > The use of the 'ph' is in honor of the shred circle that I was part at > the Hampton, VA Phish show last Friday. It was kind of shocking to see a > circle of 6 or 7 pairs of Lavers in the Hampton Roads area (I live > there). The loss of Sir Irish certainly didn't help the freestyle cause > in that area... > > Anyway, back to my subject header. I was talking to a styler in Hampton > who remarked how much his ankle flex had improved just by strecthing > whenever he was sitting in a chair or whatever. Now, I've tried this > before, but my ankles began to ache after a couple of days of this. Can > anyone tell me the merits of this? How about advice on how to do this > without causing injury? > > -Dennis Yun > dyun@sas.upenn.edu > Hello Dennis and the list!! I have been stretching my ankles for years and there is one thing that needs to be said."stretch frequently(10-12xday) but do NOT over stretch. This causes alot of pain and will affect your game.ie. ankles hurting. You can stretch your ankles in multipule ways but heres my fav. Do a butterfly stretch, stretching your groins. Then take the souls of your feet and point them up. (outsides of your feet will touch) then gently work on getting the heels closer to your crotch and the outsides of you feet up. so the souls of your feet are up in a convex shape if you can._-_ I hope this is clear? This has helped me alot over the years. I've had multipule sprains and i'm still able to do this as part of rehab. Hu-Mungis From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 3 18:29:51 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA10490 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 18:29:43 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA10486 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 18:29:41 GMT Received: from elklein@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10483) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA10481 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 18:29:40 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03127 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 11:31:50 -0700 Received: (from elklein@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.6/SAS 8.06) id NAA23350 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:32:18 -0500 (EST) From: elklein@sas.upenn.edu (Ethan L Klein) Posted-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:32:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611031832.NAA23350@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Full Shred To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:32:17 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Enlightener, Why do the strings need to be submitted beforehand? Why are participants slightly penalized for not doing this? It seems to me that it would make no difference whether the strings are authentically freestyled or choreographed, especially with cameras set up. Other than this objection I personally like the Full Shred format. Maybe we should have a trial run at the Christmas Jam. Later my friends, Ethan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 3 18:46:51 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA10596 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 18:46:51 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA10592 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 18:46:50 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10589) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA10587 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 18:46:49 GMT Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03264 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 11:48:57 -0700 Received: from [17.127.18.25] ([17.127.18.25]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA114436; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 10:44:42 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611031832.NAA23350@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 10:45:43 -0800 To: elklein@sas.upenn.edu (Ethan L Klein) From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Full Shred Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:32 AM -0800 11/3/96, Ethan L Klein wrote: >Enlightener, Why do the strings need to be submitted beforehand? Why are >participants slightly penalized for not doing this? It seems to me that >it would make no difference whether the strings are authentically >freestyled or >choreographed, especially with cameras set up. But Ethan, I think that's a lot of what makes this event different from the existing freestyle event. The idea is that it's a purely technical event -- to ensure that you get credit for complicated strings you have to submit them in advance so that the judges know exactly what they're looking for. Otherwise, you have to find competent judges who can figure out what they just saw in that quick flash of foot-movement. Even the best judges can't always tell what they just saw. But if they're expecting it, it's much better. It keeps the players honest -- i.e., if they were going to do a ripwalk-blur-paradon-paradox-whirling-swirl-down-double-down combination, but they bailed and only hit a ripwalk-blur-paradon-paradox-whirl-down-down-down the judges will be clear on this and dock them a little for the mistake. I see no other way to ensure accuracy in judging (which is purely half of Scott's goal) if judges don't know what they're looking for. >Maybe we should have a trial run at the Christmas Jam. I am pretty sure the idea is to have a trial run at the HEART OF FOOTBAG Freestyle Tournament in Portland on February 15-16. See http://www.footbag.org/events.html for more info on the event. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 3 21:23:43 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA11449 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 21:23:21 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA11445 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 21:23:19 GMT Received: from elklein@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11442) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA11440 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 21:23:17 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA04903 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 14:25:27 -0700 Received: (from elklein@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.6/SAS 8.06) id QAA06643 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 16:26:01 -0500 (EST) From: elklein@sas.upenn.edu (Ethan L Klein) Posted-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 16:26:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611032126.QAA06643@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Full Shred To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 16:26:01 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve, I do realize the near impossibility of accurately recognizing and hence judging a high-level freestyle string such as proposed in Full Shred, That's why the use of videotaped footage becomes important. The problem inherent in relying on videotaped footage rests, of course, in the fact that such a system would prove slow and reliant on the necessary equipment. The other side of the argument about augmenting pre-proposed strings of tricks is if the participant feels inspired to step-up this string while shredding. For instance; instead of hitting blur-paradon-blizzard-smear-legbeater-paradox whirl-symposium whirl-barfly. He/She hits blur-paradon-blizzard-smear-legbeater-paradox whirling swirl-symposium double whirl-barflying swirl. Then the participant should recieve additional kudos (and point-credit) for the additional degree of difficulty demonstrated in the last three tricks. If Scott already acounts for this within his system you can go ahead and flame me for the speed and uncriticalness with which I read his summary. All I'm saying is that allowing, and not penalizing, for spontineity, can both work toward the advantage and disadvantage (IN terms of difficulty and coolness) of the combo. NOt requiring a pre-arranged set of tricks to be submitted would not necessarily take away from the value of Scott's new system (except for the difficulty in judging, which again could be reconciled with videotaped footage review.) His aim, I think, is to step away from the frivolous trappings, from a hard-core freesylers perspective, of the current no-drop oriented, judging system and enter into the realm of the radical combo-busting, limit pushing, gut nature of footbag freestyle. I, of course, will always push for the FREESTYLE (true nature of the word)aspect of the sport to be incorporated in whatever pathway it follows. Sorry so wordy in this message folks, it just came out this way. Later, Ethan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 3 23:44:06 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA12175 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 23:44:04 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA12164 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 23:44:01 GMT Received: from nbpayne@osprey.smcm.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12161) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA12159; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 23:44:00 GMT Received: from osprey.smcm.edu (osprey.smcm.edu [138.78.1.14]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA06299; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 16:46:13 -0700 Received: from smcm-Message_Server by osprey.smcm.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Sun, 03 Nov 1996 18:51:17 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 18:43:22 -0500 From: Neil Payne To: announce@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] St. Mary's Shred - Nov. 16 -confirmed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fellow Kickers, On Saturday, November 16, the St. Mary's College Dragonfly Footbag club is holding a freestyle event. The goal of this event is to promote our club and the sport. The days activities will include a freestyle and consecutives competition for beginners (first time competitors) and a freestyle shred for all. I hope to have some footbags to offer as prizes to the competitors. I will definitely have food to offer anyone who makes it. I also have a small amount of money ($35) to divide up among anyone who travels to kick. Hopefully our club equipment order will arrive this week which will include a net. The few of us here that have been introduced to competitive kicking have not become real skilled at net yet, but anyone who would like to come and give us some tips / schooling, is definitely welcome. Our school is located about 1 hour and 45 minutes south of DC. A few DC Allstars have made verbal commitments (Vince and the Vu brothers). Anyone else that is reasonably close (U-Penn kickers), please try to make it. Thanks for your time, Neil Payne -founder of SMC Dragonfly Footbag club St. Mary's, MD (301) 863-2883 nbpayne@osprey.smcm.edu From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 4 03:05:52 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA13380 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 03:05:49 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA13376 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 03:05:47 GMT Received: from the_sock@ihug.co.nz () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (13373) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA13371 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 03:05:46 GMT Received: from ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.4]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA08449 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 20:08:01 -0700 Received: from port931-Auck.ihug.co.nz (port931-Auck.ihug.co.nz [203.29.161.169]) by ihug.co.nz (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA09602 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:10:59 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199611040310.QAA09602@ihug.co.nz> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "The Sock" To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 17:07:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [freestyle] Refraction Worrys Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi fellow freestylers :) If I am going for a tiltless combo, and I snake in a refraction, is that counted as a tilt because when I start the refraction its an inside delay... would I have to make it a blurry refraction or something? how do I shove a pendulum into a tiltless combo? blurry it?? Just wondering anyways, Later! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 4 03:33:14 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA13531 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 03:33:14 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA13527 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 03:33:12 GMT Received: from damianco@chcsn1.ait.ac.nz () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (13524) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA13522 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 03:33:11 GMT Received: from rangitoto.ait.ac.nz (proxy-3.ait.ac.nz [202.36.72.28]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA08756 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 20:35:27 -0700 Received: from chcsn1.ait.ac.nz (chcsn1.ait.ac.nz [156.62.128.3]) by rangitoto.ait.ac.nz (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA11257 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:40:52 +1300 Received: from CHCSN1/SpoolDir by chcsn1.ait.ac.nz (Mercury 1.21); 4 Nov 96 16:36:14 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by CHCSN1 (Mercury 1.21); 4 Nov 96 16:36:08 +1200 From: "oMEn" Organization: Auckland Institute of Technology To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:36:08 GMT+12 Subject: [freestyle] DATWs Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.21 Message-ID: <48142D14052@chcsn1.ait.ac.nz> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey there people... I woz wondering about the Double Around the World record. Last i heard it woz 12 by Hu-Mungis and Rippin or sumthing. Here's me questions: - do the DATWs have to be a specific direction? ie inside out, outside in or a mixture of both? - how long are you allowed to hold the delay for inbetween each DATW? Well i got 8 in a row outside in with about a half second delay inbetween each....and 1 witness :) Well i'll keep at it and maybe if Rippin's leg falls off then maybe one day i could have a shot at the record ay? damianco@chcsn1.ait.ac.nz \O |\ A.F.F.C. Co-President / \_o \ ` ' From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 4 04:33:52 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA13869 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 04:33:51 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA13865 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 04:33:49 GMT Received: from ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (13862) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA13860 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 04:33:48 GMT Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA09377 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 21:36:05 -0700 Received: from coinc0 (coinc0 [198.209.253.6]) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA27423 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 22:36:25 -0600 (CST) Received: by coinc0 (SMI-8.6) id WAA27948; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 22:36:24 -0600 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 22:36:24 -0600 (CST) From: Ida Bettis Fogle X-Sender: ifogle@coinc0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Music????? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org After yesterday, I have a new "favorite" CD to style to. It's Lee Rittenour (sp?) Wes Bound. Very cool. I'm going to go out & buy it if I ever have the money. So, I'm still waiting to hear what music other people like to style to. I've seen a couple of references to Phish concerts. What else? Ida Bettis Fogle; ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu sportsmom extraordinaire From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 4 06:35:10 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA14477 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:35:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA14473 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:35:06 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (14470) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA14468 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:35:04 GMT Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA10620 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 23:37:23 -0700 Received: from [17.127.18.145] ([17.127.18.145]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA43226; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 22:37:15 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611032126.QAA06643@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 22:34:25 -0800 To: elklein@sas.upenn.edu (Ethan L Klein) From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Full Shred Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:26 PM -0800 11/3/96, Ethan L Klein wrote: > The other side of the argument about augmenting pre-proposed >strings of tricks is if the participant feels inspired to step-up this >string while shredding. For instance; instead of hitting >blur-paradon-blizzard-smear-legbeater-paradox whirl-symposium >whirl-barfly. He/She hits blur-paradon-blizzard-smear-legbeater-paradox >whirling swirl-symposium double whirl-barflying swirl. Then the >participant should recieve additional kudos (and point-credit) for the >additional degree of difficulty demonstrated in the last three tricks. Well, this newly-proposed format, as far as I understand it (at least in spirit) is not really a "free"-style format. It's a technical format. It's not about being inspired; it's not about playing to music; it's not about anything but hitting the moves listed -- that's what discriminates it more than anything from the existing format. We're not trying to evolve the existing format, we're talking about adding a new and completely different format that will measure pure technical ability. The idea is basically that there are two types of freestylers (and a lot of folks who are in between) -- technical and style. Those who are into pure style will do better in the choreographed competition (our current system) and those who are into pure technique will do better in the technical competition. Ideally, the person who wins the technical competition will not be judged on anything but hitting the moves he/she set forth to hit. That's the idea here, as far as I can tell. (Of course there are people who might do really well in both.) >If Scott already acounts for this within his system you can go ahead and >flame me for the speed and uncriticalness with which I read his summary. Oh, I have no issue with being certain that the "penalty" is fair. In the case that someone hits a *harder* combo, maybe we need to take that into consideration, but it should be clear that if he/she bails to a simpler combo (like figure skaters who bail from a triple to a double) there's a mandatory deduction for not following the program. However, knowing that there's no benefit to hitting a harder move, players will probably stick to their program unless they're bailing to an easier move... (They can get inspired all they want in the presentation-oriented freestyle competition.) >All I'm saying is that allowing, and not penalizing, for spontineity, can >both work toward the advantage and disadvantage (IN terms of difficulty >and coolness) of the combo. And all I'm saying is that this particular event is not about spontaneity. That's the other event (and yes, the rules for that other event might migrate in the direction of this event, with more room for spontaneity and more focus on originality and on presentation and movement with music). >NOt requiring a pre-arranged set of tricks >to be submitted would not necessarily take away from the value of Scott's >new system I think much of Scott's idea would be lost if you start making this look more like a reworking of the other judging system. We're trying to create a new niche event, not remold the previous system. Does that make any sense? (With or without videotape judging I still think spontaneity goes against the grain of the whole vision for where this competition fits into the world.) >His aim, I think, is to step >away from the frivolous trappings, from a hard-core freesylers >perspective, of the current no-drop oriented, judging system and enter >into the realm of the radical combo-busting, limit pushing, gut nature of >footbag freestyle. Well, I think Scott's aim is multifaceted. You've definitely got one of them. But there's more. In cloning various aspects of the diving competition format, he's trying to (1) make the concepts easier to grasp for the audience, (2) add clear structure so there's less room for controversy, and (3) promote simplicity in the format and judging system so that everyone understands what's really going on. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 4 06:43:54 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA14559 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:43:54 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA14555 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:43:52 GMT Received: from elklein@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (14552) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA14550 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:43:52 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA10752 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 23:46:11 -0700 Received: (from elklein@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.6/SAS 8.06) id BAA27757 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 01:46:42 -0500 (EST) From: elklein@sas.upenn.edu (Ethan L Klein) Posted-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 01:46:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611040646.BAA27757@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Cooool Musack To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 01:46:41 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Cool tunes to jam to: Phish, especially Bathtub Gin and Weekapagh Groove Carlos Santana with Buddy Miles Jimi with the Band of Gypsys Dead- FIre on the Mountain Primus-influenced by watching '95 World's vid so many damned times To the sound of one's own beat-box (possible new level of the game in which freestyler creates own music while jammin. A veritable jam within a jam.) Cool Techno Bob Marley-Rastaman Vibrations Everyone in the circle snappin their fingers -Ethan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 4 06:45:24 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA14578 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:45:24 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA14574 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:45:23 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (14571) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA14569 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:45:23 GMT Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA10788 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 23:47:42 -0700 Received: from [17.127.18.145] ([17.127.18.145]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA68066; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 22:47:31 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611040310.QAA09602@ihug.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 22:47:47 -0800 To: "The Sock" From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Refraction Worrys Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:07 AM -0800 10/31/96, The Sock wrote: >If I am going for a tiltless combo, and I snake in a refraction, >is that counted as a tilt because when I start the refraction its an >inside delay... Refraction is 3 adds. Not only is it tiltless, it's guiltless. >how do I shove a pendulum into a tiltless combo? blurry it?? I wonder if you mean "guiltless"? Pendulums are not tilts by any means. And I'd sure like to see a blurry pendulum -- sounds cool! Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 4 07:51:23 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA14985 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 07:51:22 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA14981 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 07:51:20 GMT Received: from the_sock@ihug.co.nz () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (14978) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA14976 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 07:51:19 GMT Received: from ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.4]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA11802 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 00:53:33 -0700 Received: from port901-Auck.ihug.co.nz (port901-Auck.ihug.co.nz [203.29.161.139]) by ihug.co.nz (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA07878; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:54:27 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199611040754.UAA07878@ihug.co.nz> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "The Sock" To: Ida Bettis Fogle Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 19:21:53 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Music????? CC: freestyle@footbag.org Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > So, I'm still waiting to hear what music other people like to style to. > I've seen a couple of references to Phish concerts. What else? Just before the Weezer concert started there was a circle of people kicking around a footbag infront of the stage.. I guess they were inspired by Weezers 'Say it ain't so' music video where they are kicking around a sipa sipa at the end... Apart from them I reckon Becks CD 'Odelay' is cool to shred to :) Laterz From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 4 16:43:35 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA18286 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:43:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA18282 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:43:22 GMT Received: from derrick-fogle@lanit.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18279) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA18277 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:43:21 GMT Received: from mail.socketis.net (mail.socketis.net [204.120.70.101]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA17481 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:45:47 -0700 Received: from www.lanit.com ([204.120.71.6]) by mail.socketis.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA24154 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:00:09 -0600 Received: by www.lanit.com with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.0.837.3) id <01BBCA3E.03B5F4A0@www.lanit.com>; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:50:38 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Derrick G. Fogle" To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Paradox Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:50:36 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The consensus is that we just plug the commonly accepted definition into the rulebook and go on about our business. This is what we need to do. I probably have to much vested in what the rulebook says, since I'm the one that has been responsible for producing it for several years now. For our next exasperating excercise, we need to come up with a definition for the body add category that reasonably includes paradox. Derrick Fogle Systems Analyst LANIT Consulting 573-446-1187 derrick-fogle@lanit.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 5 00:45:30 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA21598 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:44:03 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA21594 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:44:01 GMT Received: from danzilla@mail.utexas.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (21591) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA21589 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:44:01 GMT Received: from smtp.utexas.edu (smtp.utexas.edu [128.83.126.2]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA23340 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:46:50 -0700 Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 0); 4 Nov 1996 23:15:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.utexas.edu) (128.83.126.1) by smtp.utexas.edu with SMTP; 4 Nov 1996 23:15:09 -0000 Received: from UT.cc.utexas.edu (slip-34-14.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.112.14]) by mail.utexas.edu (8.8.2/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA03506 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:15:08 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:15:08 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611042315.RAA03506@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: danzilla@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org From: danzilla@mail.utexas.edu (Dan Sharber) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Music????? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >So, I'm still waiting to hear what music other people like to style to. >I've seen a couple of references to Phish concerts. What else? I like Pavement and also Uncle Tupelo. They both tend to have great songs to kick to. Later, Dan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 5 07:52:28 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA24243 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 07:52:17 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA24239 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 07:52:15 GMT Received: from mike3094@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24236) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA24234 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 07:52:14 GMT From: MIKE3094@aol.com Received: from emout20.mail.aol.com (emout20.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.46]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA28599 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:55:01 -0700 Received: by emout20.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA17223; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:18:58 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:18:58 -0500 Message-ID: <961105001858_1914444455@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: the_sock@ihug.co.nz, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Refraction Worrys Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 96-11-03 22:11:42 EST, the_sock@ihug.co.nz (The Sock) writes: << Hi fellow freestylers :) If I am going for a tiltless combo, and I snake in a refraction, is that counted as a tilt because when I start the refraction its an inside delay... would I have to make it a blurry refraction or something? how do I shove a pendulum into a tiltless combo? blurry it?? Just wondering anyways, Later! >> When u do the refraction dont hold it on an inside stall. Instead, right when it falls on your foot do the refraction making it one smooth move (3 adds). For the pendulum dont hold the toe stall. when the sack is in the air start doing the pendulum just as it hits your foot. catch it on your toe with your leg straight and bring it back behind you. -mike From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 5 10:40:20 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id KAA25294 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:40:14 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id KAA25289 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:40:11 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (25286) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA25284 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:40:10 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA30256 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 03:42:58 -0700 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id FAE22222; Tue, 05 Nov 1996 05:24:03 EST To: elklein@sas.upenn.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 02:45:48 PST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Deep thoughts Message-ID: <19961105.030051.4286.6.dervish@juno.com> References: <199611011917.OAA26243@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,11-15 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > A friend of mine and I were brainstorming yesterday, in an >attempt to come up with 4 or 5 add moves that didn't include any >dexterities. Five spins and a toe stall - four to the clipper. double spinning osis. What's up my random friend? Apologies about the bust-outta-philly, but being away from home and random insanity bugged me out like nothing else. Dan says W'sup and I hope to seee you jerks soon. Tell all the pretty women I love them, including that mad dancer Erin. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 5 16:01:08 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA27141 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:00:26 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA27137 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:00:23 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (27133) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA27131 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:00:22 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA00762 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:03:16 -0700 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id LAA06769; Tue, 05 Nov 1996 11:03:20 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:45:41 PST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Deep thoughts Message-ID: <19961105.110215.4286.0.dervish@juno.com> References: <199611011917.OAA26243@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> <19961105.030051.4286.6.dervish@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org My apologies to the list. misplaced keystroke. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 5 16:56:56 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA27530 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:56:55 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA27526 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:56:53 GMT Received: from nbpayne@osprey.smcm.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (27523) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA27521 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:56:53 GMT Received: from osprey.smcm.edu (osprey.smcm.edu [138.78.1.14]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA01351 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:59:45 -0700 Received: from smcm-Message_Server by osprey.smcm.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 05 Nov 1996 12:04:17 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 11:55:52 -0500 From: Neil Payne To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Music????? -Reply Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, Considering that music gives me so much joy in life, I thought I would add my preferences... On Sunday, my friend Will and I styled to Beastie Boys - Pauls Boutique. We let the cd go and started it over when it finished. I definitely enjoy kicking to the B-Boys or A Tribe called Quest. However, I would have to say that my favorite music to kick to would be a mix-tape of either hip hop or house (dance / techno / rave / trance...) that I have recently made (I recently bought dj equipment). The beats really get me moving and I like to groove when I am not the one who is kicking. dancing with dragonflies, Neil >>> Ida Bettis Fogle 11/03/96 11:36pm >>> >After yesterday, I have a new "favorite" CD to style to. It's >Lee Rittenour (sp?) Wes Bound. Very cool. I'm going to go >out & buy it if I ever have the money. >So, I'm still waiting to hear what music other people like to >style to. I've seen a couple of references to Phish concerts. >What else? >Ida Bettis Fogle; ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu sportsmom >extraordinaire From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 6 01:00:09 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA30599 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:59:38 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA30595 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:59:36 GMT Received: from mike3094@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (30592) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA30590 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:59:36 GMT From: MIKE3094@aol.com Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com (emout10.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.25]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA06950 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:02:11 -0700 Received: by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA26172; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 20:02:33 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 20:02:33 -0500 Message-ID: <961105200230_1248859322@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: nbpayne@osprey.smcm.edu, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Music????? -Reply Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 96-11-05 12:16:48 EST, nbpayne@osprey.smcm.edu (Neil Payne) writes: << Hello, Considering that music gives me so much joy in life, I thought I would add my preferences... On Sunday, my friend Will and I styled to Beastie Boys - Pauls Boutique. We let the cd go and started it over when it finished. I definitely enjoy kicking to the B-Boys or A Tribe called Quest. However, I would have to say that my favorite music to kick to would be a mix-tape of either hip hop or house (dance / techno / rave / trance...) that I have recently made (I recently bought dj equipment). The beats really get me moving and I like to groove when I am not the one who is kicking. >> I have to say that synthesized fake beats are good to play to. Mike From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 6 01:49:35 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA30924 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 01:49:34 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA30920 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 01:49:32 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (30917) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA30915 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 01:49:32 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA07499 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:52:05 -0700 Received: (from marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id RAA24833; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:31:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:31:30 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne Subject: Re: [freestyle] Music????? -Reply To: Neil Payne cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everyone! The music i like stylin' to are: Eric Clapton Stevie R. Vaughn Steve Vai Iron Maiden Buddy Guy Anything with a good solid beat. Later, Adrian P.S.-I hit my first *blender* today! -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 6 09:14:55 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA00778 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:14:39 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA00774 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:14:37 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (771) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA00769 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:14:36 GMT Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA12052 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:17:17 -0700 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.6/SAS 8.06) id EAA20965 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 04:17:48 -0500 (EST) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Posted-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 04:17:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611060917.EAA20965@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Judgin To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 04:17:47 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have been reading up on the current judging system, and I have a couple of questions that I know you people can answer, so here goes: 1) If I have done both a pixie and a mirage, will a smear count as a unique dexterity in the comps? Will it count as two? 2) Enlightener said that if you drop, you will likely loose, but a drop only deducts 1/4 of a point. Does he mean that your presentation also goes WAY down with a drop? 3) Does the same move done with the other leg count as a unique dexterity in the comps? 4) If i CLEARLY and INTENTIONALY grab the bag with my hand (i.e. not a save) because I feel like it, will it be a drop? Thanks Alex p.s. What time is it now? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 6 13:23:59 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA02255 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:23:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA02251 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:23:50 GMT Received: from rtroxel@ops.esu19.k12.ne.us () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2248) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA02246 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:23:49 GMT Received: from redgate.esu19.k12.ne.us ([162.127.19.9]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA14553 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 06:26:34 -0700 Received: by redgate.esu19.k12.ne.us; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA06098; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 07:30:23 -0600 Received: by ops.esu19.k12.ne.us; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Aug96-0319PM) id AA23458; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 07:28:58 -0600 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 07:27:10 -0600 (CST) From: Ryan Troxel Subject: [freestyle] Squeeze To: Alessandre S Naro Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <199611060917.EAA20965@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What are some of the moves that involve a squeeze? I have seen ATW from a squeeze also a dragonfly. Any others? RYE From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 6 16:15:34 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA03382 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:15:27 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA03378 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:15:25 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3375) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA03373 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:15:25 GMT Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA16186 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:18:11 -0700 Received: from [17.127.18.99] ([17.127.18.99]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA52496; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:17:17 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611060917.EAA20965@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:18:52 -0800 To: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Judgin Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:17 AM -0800 11/6/96, Alessandre S Naro wrote: >1) If I have done both a pixie and a mirage, will a smear count as a >unique dexterity in the comps? Will it count as two? "Unique" means "within a unique move". It's not the type of dexterity but the move itself that determines uniqueness. (But the set doesn't count, so the dexterity in a mirage set from clipper is identical to the dexterity in a mirage set from toe, for example.) So in your case, you'd get credit for all three moves on the Comp cards; you'd get one hash-mark on the dexterity card for pixie (assuming you mean pixie-toe); one hash-mark for mirage; and two hash-marks for smear. >2) Enlightener said that if you drop, you will likely loose, but a drop >only deducts 1/4 of a point. Does he mean that your presentation also >goes WAY down with a drop? I *think* Scott is referring to the quality of play at the top level. There just aren't that many drops in open freestyle, and most players come close to maxing out the comp cards. And, yes, drops do affect all the judges' general impressions of the routine (and audience response). This will undoubtedly affect the presentation score. Dropless routines usually have a much better chance of winning than otherwise. >3) Does the same move done with the other leg count as a unique dexterity >in the comps? Yes. Each side you use is unique. Left smear is one move; right smear is another, for example. >4) If i CLEARLY and INTENTIONALY grab the bag with my hand (i.e. not a save) >because I feel like it, will it be a drop? No, it is not a drop. Only an *unchoreographed* catch is a drop. Also, IFAB has also just changed it this year so that there are not "slops" (1/2-drops) on the drop card; if you hit your upper body with the bag now, it is just bad form. The presentation judges may count off for it, but you won't get double jeopardy anymore since the drop counter will let it slide. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 6 17:09:33 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA03722 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:09:27 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA03718 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:09:26 GMT Received: from sekaran@eniac.seas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3715) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA03713 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:09:25 GMT Received: from central.cis.upenn.edu (CENTRAL.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.12.2]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA16838 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:12:14 -0700 Received: from red.seas.upenn.edu (sekaran@RED.SEAS.UPENN.EDU [130.91.5.147]) by central.cis.upenn.edu (8.6.12/UPenn 1.4) with ESMTP id MAA25479; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:12:37 -0500 Received: by red.seas.upenn.edu id MAA21369; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:12:32 -0500 (EST) Posted-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:12:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611061712.MAA21369@red.seas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Squeeze To: rtroxel@ops.esu19.k12.ne.us (Ryan Troxel) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:12:32 -0500 (EST) From: "S. Vijay Sekaran" Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: from "Ryan Troxel" at Nov 6, 96 07:27:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > What are some of the moves that involve a squeeze? I have seen ATW from > a squeeze also a dragonfly. Any others? > RYE > > RYE, I am not very good at squeezing and/or releasing from a squeeze, but I have seen people hit smear, dble atw's, and double legovers. I'm sure there are plenty of other moves you can do from a squeeze. The other day my friends and I were thinking of a flying squeeze and release. THat is you catch the bag in air, say from behind you, bring you knee out in front of you while still in air and relaese the bag before landing. I don't know if this has been hit, but it would be way cool. It kinda like a squeezing reverse eclipse. Shred on, Vijay ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | PHREESTYLIN' IN PHILADELPHIA S. Vijay Sekaran | ___ 4114 Pine St. | /\___/\ Philadelphia, PA 19104 | |_/ \_| PENNSYLVANIA (215)-243-2441 | | \___/ | FOOTBAG | \/___\/ sekaran@eniac.seas.upenn.edu | | (otherwise known as "hacky-sack") ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 6 17:14:47 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA03793 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:14:47 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA03789 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:14:45 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3786) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA03784 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:14:45 GMT Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA16870 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:17:33 -0700 Received: from [17.127.18.99] ([17.127.18.99]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA22186 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:16:48 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611061712.MAA21369@red.seas.upenn.edu> References: from "Ryan Troxel" at Nov 6, 96 07:27:10 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:18:18 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Squeeze Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >> What are some of the moves that involve a squeeze? I have seen ATW from >> a squeeze also a dragonfly. Any others? Another move is "Mechanosis". It's RAD! It's an osis set from squeeze/pincher. The idea is you bring the leg holding the bag up in front of you, drop it and as the bag is falling you turn into it and osis with the other leg. It looks a lot like torque. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 6 20:42:57 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05281 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:42:47 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05277 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:42:45 GMT Received: from derrick-fogle@lanit.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5274) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA05272 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:42:45 GMT Received: from mail.socketis.net (mail.socketis.net [204.120.70.101]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA19391 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:45:23 -0700 Received: from www.lanit.com ([204.120.71.6]) by mail.socketis.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA09693 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:01:13 -0600 Received: by www.lanit.com with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.0.837.3) id <01BBCBF1.E1161BE0@www.lanit.com>; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:50:40 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Derrick G. Fogle" To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Paradox Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:50:35 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Any move involving jumping, spinning, blind catches (osis), twisting or >double weight shifts such as are inherent in paradox moves. Alright! Outside set > opp I-O Dex > opp Toe Del Is now a paradox move, by your definition. It contains the same double weight shift/double hip rotation. Refer to circular argument post. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 6 20:50:22 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05339 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:50:21 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05335 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:50:19 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5332) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA05330 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:50:19 GMT Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA19538 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:52:55 -0700 Received: from [17.255.9.137] (microbrat.research.apple.com [17.255.9.137]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA56558; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:51:46 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:54:58 -0800 To: "Derrick G. Fogle" From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Paradox Cc: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:50 PM -0800 11/6/96, Derrick G. Fogle wrote: >Outside set > opp I-O Dex > opp Toe Del > >Is now a paradox move, by your definition. It contains the same double >weight shift/double hip rotation. Yeah! Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 6 22:12:30 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA05967 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:12:15 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA05963 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:12:13 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5960) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA05958 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:12:13 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA20548 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:14:41 -0700 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id QAA01400; Wed, 06 Nov 1996 16:49:10 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:19:58 PST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Squeeze Message-ID: <19961106.161959.3558.1.dervish@juno.com> References: <199611061712.MAA21369@red.seas.upenn.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,8-11 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >but I have seen people hit smear, dble atw's, and double legovers. *double legovers* or just a legover from the squeeze? >sure there are plenty of other moves you can do from a squeeze. I have hit squeeze into crossbody rake, eclipse, knee stall (FUN!) and also around to the same squeeze - and although I thought of it independently - the word is it was invented by ET Constable. Tomorrow I will try either side butterfly, and sameside osis. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 6 22:28:41 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA06070 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:28:36 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA06065 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:28:35 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6062) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA06060 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:28:30 GMT Received: from flowbee.interaccess.com (flowbee.interaccess.com [198.80.0.32]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA20809 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:30:52 -0700 Received: from [207.70.66.93] (d93.cloud.interaccess.com [207.70.66.93]) by flowbee.interaccess.com (8.8.2/8.8.Beta.3) with SMTP id QAA12287; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:31:30 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:33:57 -0500 To: Ryan Troxel , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Squeeze Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Ryan! >What are some of the moves that involve a squeeze? I have seen ATW from >a squeeze also a dragonfly. Any others? Squeeze? You mean Pincher. Anyway, Cross Body Pinchers Spinning Pinchers Spinning Cross Body Pinchers ButterPinch (or Pincherfly) InfiniPinch (or Pinchinity) Pinchwalk (ripwalk ending in cross body pincher) The real challenge is twofold: Come up with pinchers that are guilt-free (see above), and to find ways *out* of them. The second part is the hardest... how to get out of a pincher. In the beginning it may seem difficult because to have a good set you need lift, and when you try to apply lift to the footbag trapped behind your knee, it is hard to get your knee out of the way on the way up. The trick is to not pinch it too hard (better for control), practice the upward lifting motion where you release before the apex and give yourself time to get out of the way and bail to a toe. Then practice going to other places, like this: Pinch to "drifter" (really only 2 adds, because it is essentially going to a clipper) Pinch to "torque" [mechanosis] (really only 3 adds, because it is essentially an osis) Pinch to "whirl" (a great drill for blurry whirl) Pinch to pinch (or cross-body pinch) Pinch to "butterfly" (really only 2 adds, because it is essentially a clipper delay) Pinch to lap catch. Pinch to pinch Pinch to barrage Pinch to spinning clipper (I haven't tried this, just thinkin', hmmm) How's dat? See ya! Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 6 22:28:42 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA06080 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:28:41 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA06076 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:28:40 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6073) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA06071 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:28:39 GMT Received: from flowbee.interaccess.com (flowbee.interaccess.com [198.80.0.32]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA20812 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:30:57 -0700 Received: from [207.70.66.93] (d93.cloud.interaccess.com [207.70.66.93]) by flowbee.interaccess.com (8.8.2/8.8.Beta.3) with SMTP id QAA12301; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:31:37 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:34:02 -0500 To: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro), freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Judgin Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Alex and Freestylers! >1) If I have done both a pixie and a mirage, will a smear count as a >unique dexterity in the comps? Yes. (compared to those two moves, you also get a unique delay) >Will it count as two? No. A move can have two dexterity adds and still only satisfy's the "unique" move category once. i.e. A Double ATW is only 1 unique move in dex, and delay. >2) Enlightener said that if you drop, you will likely loose, but a drop >only deducts 1/4 of a point. NO! I said there are IFAB'ers out there lobbying for penalties soooooo strong that one drop will eliminate you from the potential of winning. I think this is both wrong and right at the same time. Yes, we need to make dropless routines the norm... and while this isn't the way I want to see it happen, I believe this is the trend. I strongly believe if we do that, it will be WAY UNFAIR to the shredders (who also happen to be the top freestylers in the world) who have pushed the edge so far. So if I cave in on the "weight of the drop" issue, it will ONLY be because we have approved a new event that focuses on the difficulty side of things (and run it at major tourneys IN ADDITION to the current event). >Does he mean that your presentation also >goes WAY down with a drop? Well, that happens too. But it is mostly because (IMHO) most presentation judges don't know what they are looking for, they have too much power, and because we (IFAB and players) have done a VERY POOR job of defining the elusive categories such as "personality and originality". (ALL the presention categories need to be overhauled, MASSIVELY). We need to rethink the way we score presentation. There should be no discussion among judges, at least two of the "two-point" categories can be scored quantitatively, and much more! >3) Does the same move done with the other leg count as a unique dexterity >in the comps? Yes. >4) If i CLEARLY and INTENTIONALY grab the bag with my hand (i.e. not a save) >because I feel like it, will it be a drop? Usually, yes. Unless at the end of the routine, or if you catch it on the back of your hand. It is hard to call, just don't do it and you will be sure not to be called for a drop. What is this, "handbag"? >What time is it now? 4:20? See ya! Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 6 22:39:40 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA06166 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:39:40 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA06162 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:39:39 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6159) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA06157 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:39:38 GMT Received: from flowbee.interaccess.com (flowbee.interaccess.com [198.80.0.32]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA21061 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:41:53 -0700 Received: from [207.70.66.93] (d93.cloud.interaccess.com [207.70.66.93]) by flowbee.interaccess.com (8.8.2/8.8.Beta.3) with SMTP id QAA12602; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:42:34 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:44:59 -0500 To: "Steven L. Goldberg" , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Judgin Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Steve and freestylers! >At 1:17 AM -0800 11/6/96, Alessandre S Naro wrote: >>1) If I have done both a pixie and a mirage, will a smear count as a >>unique dexterity in the comps? Will it count as two? >So in your case, you'd get credit for all three moves on the Comp cards; >you'd get one hash-mark on the dexterity card for pixie (assuming you mean >pixie-toe); one hash-mark for mirage; and two hash-marks for smear. Nope. Sorry, wrong answer. If a move has two dexterities (or 20), it gets only ONE unique hash mark on the comp card. Scott. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 6 22:46:56 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA06242 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:46:51 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA06238 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:46:50 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6235) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA06233 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:46:50 GMT Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA21096; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:49:00 -0700 Received: from [17.255.9.137] (microbrat.research.apple.com [17.255.9.137]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA29954; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:49:23 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:52:02 -0800 To: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Judgin Cc: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro), freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:34 PM -0800 11/6/96, Scott Davidson wrote: >>1) If I have done both a pixie and a mirage, will a smear count as a >>unique dexterity in the comps? > >Yes. (compared to those two moves, you also get a unique delay) > >>Will it count as two? > >No. A move can have two dexterity adds and still only satisfy's the >"unique" move category once. i.e. A Double ATW is only 1 unique move in >dex, and delay. Sorry -- my bad on this point. Yes of course -- it's only ONE hash mark. But it still is a DIFFERENT/UNIQUE move from either of the other two. So to clarify, I should've said: "Unique" means "within a unique move". It's not the type of dexterity but the move itself that determines uniqueness. (But the set doesn't count, so the dexterity in a mirage set from clipper is identical to the dexterity in a mirage set from toe, for example.) So in your case, you'd get credit for all three moves on the Comp cards; you'd get one hash-mark on the dexterity card for pixie (assuming you mean pixie-toe); one hash-mark for mirage; and ONE hash-mark for smear. ^^^ Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Nov 7 05:52:42 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA09135 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 05:52:36 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA09131 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 05:52:34 GMT Received: from damianco@chcsn1.ait.ac.nz () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9128) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA09126 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 05:52:33 GMT Received: from rangitoto.ait.ac.nz (proxy-3.ait.ac.nz [202.36.72.28]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA26417 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:54:21 -0700 Received: from chcsn1.ait.ac.nz (chcsn1.ait.ac.nz [156.62.128.3]) by rangitoto.ait.ac.nz (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA29138 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:01:20 +1300 Received: from CHCSN1/SpoolDir by chcsn1.ait.ac.nz (Mercury 1.21); 7 Nov 96 18:56:12 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by CHCSN1 (Mercury 1.21); 7 Nov 96 18:56:11 +1200 From: "oMEn" Organization: Auckland Institute of Technology To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:56:06 GMT+12 Subject: Re: [freestyle] DATWs Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.21 Message-ID: <4CB97FB54C3@chcsn1.ait.ac.nz> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey there people... I woz wondering about the Double Around the World record. Last i heard it woz 12 by Hu-Mungis and Rippin or sumthing. Here's me questions: - do the DATWs have to be a specific direction? ie inside out, outside in or a mixture of both? - how long are you allowed to hold the delay for inbetween each DATW? Well i got 8 in a row outside in with about a half second delay inbetween each....and 1 witness :) Well i'll keep at it and maybe if Rippin's leg falls off then maybe one day i could have a shot at the record ay? damianco@chcsn1.ait.ac.nz \O |\ A.F.F.C. Co-President / \_o \ ` ' From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Nov 7 13:51:30 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA11842 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:51:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA11838 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:51:21 GMT Received: from humungis@kode.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11835) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA11833 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:51:20 GMT Received: from bsd1.kode.net (bsd1.kode.net [206.42.219.3]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA31898 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 06:53:17 -0700 Received: from kodenet.kode.net (ppp-56.kode.net [206.42.219.75]) by bsd1.kode.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA16809 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:01:56 -0800 Message-ID: <3281E96C.340F@Kode.net> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 08:51:40 -0500 From: Paul Munger X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] DATWs References: <4CB97FB54C3@chcsn1.ait.ac.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org oMEn wrote: > > Hey there people... > > I woz wondering about the Double Around the World record. Last i > heard it woz 12 by Hu-Mungis and Rippin or sumthing. > > Here's me questions: > > - do the DATWs have to be a specific direction? ie inside out, > outside in or a mixture of both? > > - how long are you allowed to hold the delay for inbetween each > DATW? > > Well i got 8 in a row outside in with about a half second delay > inbetween each....and 1 witness :) > > Well i'll keep at it and maybe if Rippin's leg falls off then maybe > one day i could have a shot at the record ay? > > damianco@chcsn1.ait.ac.nz > > \O > |\ A.F.F.C. Co-President > / \_o > \ ` > ' I think that the current ecord is 18 datw's bt genzu!! thats one way. not sure which. Rippin has 12 going clock,counter,clock,etc. This is a real bitch to do!! good luck As for the delay, half a sec isn't bad! Hu-Mungis From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Nov 7 21:36:05 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA15025 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:36:05 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA15020 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:36:03 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (15017) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA15015 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:36:02 GMT Received: from psycfrnd.interaccess.com (psycfrnd.interaccess.com [198.80.0.26]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA04340; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:37:43 -0700 Received: from [207.70.66.91] (d91.cloud.interaccess.com [207.70.66.91]) by psycfrnd.interaccess.com (8.8.2/8.8.Beta.3) with SMTP id PAA27800; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:39:07 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:41:35 -0500 To: elklein@sas.upenn.edu (Ethan L Klein), brat@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Full Shred Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! I have received some responses to the Full Shred Event post, and here are my thoughts... ********************************** Steve G. wrote: >Well, I think Scott's aim is multifaceted. You've definitely got one of >them. But there's more. In cloning various aspects of the diving >competition format, he's trying to (1) make the concepts easier to grasp >for the audience, (2) add clear structure so there's less room for >controversy, and (3) promote simplicity in the format and judging system so >that everyone understands what's really going on. Yes. ********************************** Ethan wrote: >Enlightener, Why do the strings need to be submitted beforehand? Actually, there are two *very* good reasons for this: To simplify judging and to speed up computation time! Here is an example of how it would look under the existing proposal: Player 1 is up, they are doing a Ripwalk, Ripwalk, Paradox Whirl, Paradox Whirl, Paradox Drifter, Osis, Torque, Paradox Blender. At this point, we (the tourney) have already calculated (according to "the list) what the string will be worth if they hit it. From here we can make necessary updates: Player 1 is performing his string and he hits everything but the Torque, which he bails to an osis. The judges quickly update the string value by removing the 4.4 for the torque and substituting a 3.0 for the osis, then they can do the quick calculation (total adjusted adds x number of contacts) for the players score. Literally available moments after the performance. >Why are >participants slightly penalized for not doing this? They are. For instance, if a player hits an osis instead of a torque they don't get the full value of the substituted move, they get the "rounded down to the nearest whole number" score prior to multiplication. >It seems to me that >it would make no difference whether the strings are authentically >freestyled or >choreographed, especially with cameras set up. Just a ton of time in calculations. If, for instance, we were to have to watch the player, figure out what they did, then figure out the values (remember, we need to look them up, they are not whole numbers anymore), then do the calculations, then post the score. A definate time disadvantage. Case in point: Videotaping is not necessary, it is just a backup. This is so easy to judge, we can do it live. Settle bickering by videotape review. >All I'm saying is that allowing, and not penalizing, for spontineity, can >both work toward the advantage and disadvantage (IN terms of difficulty >and coolness) of the combo. NOt requiring a pre-arranged set of tricks >to be submitted would not necessarily take away from the value of Scott's >new system (except for the difficulty in judging, which again could be >reconciled with videotaped footage review.) No penalty for doing harder strings than they had proposed, except that they will get the raw rounded down score of moves that are substituted. i.e. If they substituted Paradox Torque for Torque, and paratorque was deemed valued at 5.5, they would only get 5.0. This seems fair, think about the goal here... to simplify judging. (very lightly penalizing players for making the judges work harder) >Other than this >objection I personally like the Full Shred format. Maybe we should have a >trial run at the Christmas Jam. Thanks, and we just might. Ask Paul nicely, and maybe he will do it. :-) And thinking back, this is similar to the event that Kenny and KIC were running at Heart of Freestyle for the last two years. Yep, very similar. I think Kenny will *really* like this event with its new modifications. See ya! Scott D. Enlightener "Freestyle Rulz" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 9 01:43:58 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA26031 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 01:42:41 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA26027 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 01:42:40 GMT Received: from 00201887@bigred.unl.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (26024) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA26022 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 01:42:23 GMT Received: from crcvms.unl.edu (crcvms.unl.edu [129.93.1.2]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA11682 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:45:49 -0800 Received: from bigred.unl.edu by crcvms.unl.edu (PMDF V5.0-6 #13219) id <01IBLOVW5QE800C2ZK@crcvms.unl.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 08 Nov 1996 11:51:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: by bigred.unl.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/18Aug95-0137PM) id AA05173; Fri, 08 Nov 1996 11:36:14 -0600 Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 11:36:14 -0600 (CST) From: Theron A Troxel <00201887@bigred.unl.edu> Subject: [freestyle] name that move To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: <9611081736.AA05173@bigred.unl.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everyone, I was wondering the name (and add count) for two moves. The first one is: right toe stall then do the motion for a inside-out mirage (kinda like an original around the world) then stall the footbag with an inside stall on the left foot. The second on is: a backward eclipse, a falling star when jumping over your clipper foot. -- --------------------------- @ Theron Troxel \_|_/ 465-8363 | o UNLFC President /_\_ 00201887@bigred.unl.edu \ ------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 9 03:01:44 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA26508 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 03:01:42 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA26504 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 03:01:40 GMT Received: from mike3094@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (26501) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA26499 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 03:01:39 GMT From: MIKE3094@aol.com Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com (emout06.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.97]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA12608 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:05:05 -0800 Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA21715 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 22:05:17 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 22:05:17 -0500 Message-ID: <961108220516_1115294610@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] MTV Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, Ryan called Mtv and they said that they are going to use the footbag footage. it was just approved by the executives and is going to be cut up.its on a show called unfiltered. they will contact Ryan and tell himwhen its on. then i will tell you guys. just letting u know its approved. -Mike From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 10 03:30:18 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA02212 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 03:29:45 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA02208 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 03:29:43 GMT Received: from wulff@vitinc.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2205) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA02203 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 03:29:42 GMT Received: from admin.vitinc.com (admin.vitinc.com [204.180.239.5]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA27100 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 19:33:27 -0800 Received: from port03.vitinc.com (port03.vitinc.com [204.180.239.103]) by admin.vitinc.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA23395 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 22:33:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 22:33:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611100333.WAA23395@admin.vitinc.com> X-Sender: wulff@admin.vitinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Eric \"Iron Maiden\" Wulff" Subject: [freestyle] REGARDING DIVE VS. DUCK Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I BELIEVE A DIVE = 2 ADDS - 1 BODY & 1 DEX (AS YOU *CIRCLE* THE BAG WITH YOUR DOME) I BELIEVE A DUCK IS ONLY WORTH 1-ADD BECAUSE YOU ARE SIMPLY DUCKING UNDER THE BAG. THERFORE, YOU ONLY EARN THE BODY ADD. AT NO TIME DO YOU ACTUALLY CIRCLE THE BAG IN ANY WAY WHEN YOU ARE PERFORMING A "DUCKING" MOVE. COMMENTS? OPINIONS? What It Was... What It Is... and What It Shall Be~~~ Keep On Kick'n On, Eric "Iron Man/Maiden" Wulff From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 10 03:57:35 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA02406 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 03:57:35 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA02402 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 03:57:33 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2399) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA02397 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 03:57:32 GMT Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA27404 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 20:01:18 -0800 Received: from [17.127.19.197] ([17.127.19.197]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA93116; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 20:00:14 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611100333.WAA23395@admin.vitinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 20:01:02 -0800 To: "Eric \"Iron Maiden\" Wulff" From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] REGARDING DIVE VS. DUCK Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 7:33 PM -0800 11/9/96, Eric \"Iron Maiden\" Wulff wrote: >I BELIEVE A DIVE = 2 ADDS - 1 BODY & 1 DEX (AS YOU *CIRCLE* THE BAG WITH >YOUR DOME) >I BELIEVE A DUCK IS ONLY WORTH 1-ADD BECAUSE YOU ARE SIMPLY DUCKING UNDER >THE BAG. THERFORE, YOU ONLY EARN THE BODY ADD. AT NO TIME DO YOU ACTUALLY >CIRCLE THE BAG IN ANY WAY WHEN YOU ARE PERFORMING A "DUCKING" MOVE. > >COMMENTS? OPINIONS? Whew, you don't have to YELL man, we hear you! :-) Heh heh... But seriously, I think the current scoring system considers dexterities only in relation to the LEGS/FEET. However, I think diving *does* represent an extra BODY motion over ducking -- therefore I can probably be convinced that dives are 2 body adds and ducks are just 1 body add... I just don't think you can call your head circling the bag a "dexterity" in the sport of FOOTbag. That's what the "body" category is there for... Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 10 17:31:49 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA07025 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 17:31:46 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA07021 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 17:31:44 GMT Received: from ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7018) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA07016 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 17:31:42 GMT Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA02103; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 09:35:35 -0800 Received: from coinc0 (coinc0 [198.209.253.6]) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03791; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:35:22 -0600 (CST) Received: by coinc0 (SMI-8.6) id LAA04193; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:35:22 -0600 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:35:22 -0600 (CST) From: Ida Bettis Fogle X-Sender: ifogle@coinc0 To: Scott Davidson cc: Alessandre S Naro , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Judgin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Scott Davidson wrote: > I strongly believe if we do that, it will be WAY UNFAIR to the shredders > (who also happen to be the top freestylers in the world) who have pushed > the edge so far. So if I cave in on the "weight of the drop" issue, it > will ONLY be because we have approved a new event that focuses on the > difficulty side of things (and run it at major tourneys IN ADDITION to the > current event). > All this time I've been thinking you meant the event to *replace* current freestyle events. Having this *in addition* I don't have a problem with - if there's time. I wouldn't be willing to eliminate time consecs for it :-) & I wouldn't be interested in competing in the new tricks event myself. I have to say, though, I think the way the judging presently works (at least at worlds) is heavily adds-oriented, so I'm still a little unclear on the "need" for another adds-oriented event. I'm especially mystified about this whole idea being so strongly advocated by someone who has traditionally been very strong on presentation. Oh well...if a lot of people are really hip on a new tricks events then I think it should be encouraged (as long as I get to keep my events too!) I'm all for having something for everyone. I do hope there will still be room for freestyle in future footbag happenings. peas, Ida Ida Bettis Fogle; ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu sportsmom extraordinaire From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 10 20:19:47 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA08030 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:19:26 GMT Message-Id: <199611102019.UAA08030@eniac.yak.net.taz> From: freefloe@continet.com X-Sender: freefloe@continet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] REGARDING DIVE VS. DUCK Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:01:24 -0800 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >At 7:33 PM -0800 11/9/96, Eric \"Iron Maiden\" Wulff wrote: >>I BELIEVE A DIVE = 2 ADDS - 1 BODY & 1 DEX (AS YOU *CIRCLE* THE BAG WITH >>YOUR DOME) Steve wrote: >But seriously, I think the current scoring system considers dexterities >only in relation to the LEGS/FEET. However, I think diving *does* >represent an extra BODY motion over ducking -- therefore I can probably be >convinced that dives are 2 body adds and ducks are just 1 body add... So, would you place this "extra" add on the body card as an "extra move within a trick" like jump roping and kicking or the paradox motion you all love to discuss? This makes sense to me. Is pendulum currently on the body card or dexterity card? I think it was on both for a while? What about half pendulums and rakes? Are these "extra body" motions and if not where does the add go? whirling, swirling peas to all, becca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 10 20:27:35 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA08100 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:27:35 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA08093 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:27:33 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8090) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA08088; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:27:32 GMT Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.70.135]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA04286; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 12:31:34 -0800 Received: from rac10.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac10.wam.umd.edu [128.8.70.110]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.8.2/8.8.0) with ESMTP id PAA28433; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 15:31:32 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac10.wam.umd.edu (8.8.2/8.8.0) id PAA23298; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 15:31:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 15:31:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611102031.PAA23298@rac10.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle-digest@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #27 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey- Tuan Vu has asked me to announce the availiability of his 1996 World Championship Freestyle Footage. anyone interested should give him a ring at 703-503-7231. l8r- vinc From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 11 01:03:39 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA10062 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 01:03:36 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA10058 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 01:03:33 GMT Received: from dkkim@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10055) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA10053 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 01:03:33 GMT Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA06653 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 17:07:37 -0800 Received: (from dkkim@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.6/SAS 8.06) id UAA25890 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:07:35 -0500 (EST) From: dkkim@sas.upenn.edu (David K Kim) Posted-Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:07:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611110107.UAA25890@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] firsts To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:07:34 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all I just wanted to announce the successful freestyling I've been doing this weekend. I've been slumpin' for a while, not kicking much; but I'm now in the zone once again. This weekend I hit my first double atw, my first *clean* paradox mirage, and today, my first *whirl*. I'm pretty psyched. Also, kudos to Alex Naro, who hit his first *ripwalk* just twenty minutes ago. Happy freestyling. dave kim pennsylvania footbag From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 11 01:12:57 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA10144 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 01:12:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA10140 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 01:12:55 GMT Received: from the_sock@ihug.co.nz () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10137) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA10135 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 01:12:55 GMT Received: from ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.4]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA06761 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 17:16:52 -0800 Received: from port926-Auck.ihug.co.nz (port926-Auck.ihug.co.nz [203.29.161.164]) by ihug.co.nz (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09406 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:18:46 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199611110118.OAA09406@ihug.co.nz> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "The Sock" To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 05:28:29 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [freestyle] Caffine Capers Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Anyone else here find that consumiung large quantities of Caffine containing beverages enhances your ability to shred out some huge moves/combos??? The other day after drinking some Mountain Dew, I hit a Stomping Paradon Swirl, and this combo: Double Legover, Paradon, Double legover, Paradon, Paradox Mirage, Switchover, bail on Smear/Toe Set Blur attempt that reminds me, what is a Smear and what is a Toe Set Blur?? The one I do goes like this: Right toe set, left leg in->out dex, right in->out dex, left toe delay Later! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 11 02:41:02 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA10724 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 02:41:00 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA10719 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 02:40:58 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10716) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA10714 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 02:40:57 GMT Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA07569 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:45:01 -0800 Received: from [17.127.19.197] ([17.127.19.197]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA46120; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:44:09 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611110118.OAA09406@ihug.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:45:03 -0800 To: "The Sock" From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Caffine Capers Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Right toe set, left leg in->out dex, right in->out dex, left toe >delay That's a toe-set Blur although it's not considered a real blur because there's no paradox motion (Blur is a "miraging paradox-mirage"). So it's really a miraging mirage. :-) Three adds (dex, dex, del). A Smear is a pixie-mirage, i.e., a toe set to the SAME leg in-out dexterity to a toe delay with the other leg. Also 3 adds (dex, dex, del) but the dex legs are backwards that the "toe-set Blur", aka miraging mirage. Honestly I think the first one (the one you do) is hella harder because of the fast plant required. Some day when we redesign the add category system to make real sense (that'll be the day we take out the "delay" category altogether heh heh :-)) we'll take into consideration the number of milliseconds and millimeters of clearance required to perform the motions. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 11 05:22:09 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA11878 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 05:21:34 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA11874 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 05:21:32 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11871) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA11869 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 05:21:31 GMT Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA09128 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 21:25:34 -0800 Received: from [17.127.19.197] ([17.127.18.228]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA102248 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 21:24:51 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199611110118.OAA09406@ihug.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 21:25:14 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Caffine Capers Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Whoops, as usual I hit the send button too fast... I wrote: >A Smear is a pixie-mirage, i.e., a toe set to the SAME leg in-out dexterity >to a toe delay with the other leg. Also 3 adds (dex, dex, del) but the dex >legs are backwards that the "toe-set Blur", aka miraging mirage. Duh, I left out the other dexterity in the description for Smear above. I meant it's a toe set to the same leg in-out dexterity followed by the plant leg in-out dexterity and the original setting leg catches the bag on the toe delay. Sorry bout that. But the rest was right, i.e., 3 adds (dex, dex, del). In Ben Job's notation, they are: Smear = Pixie Mirage = toe > same in dex > op in dex > op toe Toe-set "blur" = Miraging mirage = toe > op in dex > op in dex > op toe I like Ben's notation -- so easy to write! :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 11 14:59:21 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA15523 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:59:18 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA15519 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:59:16 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (15516) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA15514 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:59:16 GMT Received: from thymaster.interaccess.com (thymaster.interaccess.com [198.80.0.36]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA15353 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 07:03:27 -0800 Received: from [207.70.66.118] (d118.cloud.interaccess.com [207.70.66.118]) by thymaster.interaccess.com (8.8.2/8.8.Beta.3) with SMTP id JAA13131; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:03:14 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:05:57 -0500 To: "Steven L. Goldberg" , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] REGARDING DIVE VS. DUCK Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! >However, I think diving *does* >represent an extra BODY motion over ducking -- therefore I can probably be >convinced that dives are 2 body adds and ducks are just 1 body add... I have a hard time swallowing that. Come on. Sorry Eric. >I >just don't think you can call your head circling the bag a "dexterity" in >the sport of FOOTbag. That's what the "body" category is there for... Good point Steve. If we put ducks/dives in dex category, then we would have to give adds for arm circles. We would be the laughing stock of performers. See ya! Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 11 14:59:49 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA15540 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:59:49 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA15536 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:59:48 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (15533) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA15531 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:59:48 GMT Received: from thymaster.interaccess.com (thymaster.interaccess.com [198.80.0.36]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA15360 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 07:03:59 -0800 Received: from [207.70.66.118] (d118.cloud.interaccess.com [207.70.66.118]) by thymaster.interaccess.com (8.8.2/8.8.Beta.3) with SMTP id JAA13156; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:03:37 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:06:22 -0500 To: "The Sock" , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Caffine Capers Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi! >The other day after drinking some Mountain Dew, I hit a Stomping >Paradon Swirl, and this combo: I attribute it to the Sugar. Scott. Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 11 17:27:00 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA16728 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:26:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA16724 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:26:59 GMT Received: from ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (16721) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA16719 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:26:58 GMT Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA17603 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:31:07 -0800 Received: from coinc0 (coinc0 [198.209.253.6]) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA29624; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:30:42 -0600 (CST) Received: by coinc0 (SMI-8.6) id LAA24359; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:30:41 -0600 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:30:41 -0600 (CST) From: Ida Bettis Fogle X-Sender: ifogle@coinc0 To: "Steven L. Goldberg" cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Ben's notation, was Caffine Capers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 10 Nov 1996, Steven L. Goldberg wrote: snip > . I > meant it's a toe set to the same leg in-out dexterity followed by the plant > leg in-out dexterity and the original setting leg catches the bag on the > toe delay. Sorry bout that. But the rest was right, i.e., 3 adds (dex, > dex, del). In Ben Job's notation, they are: > > Smear = > Pixie Mirage = toe > same in dex > op in dex > op toe > > Toe-set "blur" = > Miraging mirage = toe > op in dex > op in dex > op toe > > I like Ben's notation -- so easy to write! :-) > I like this notation, too. I can *finally* understand what a move is by reading the description. Ida Bettis Fogle; ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 11 18:24:27 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA17233 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 18:24:26 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA17227 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 18:24:24 GMT Received: from genz@bechtel.colorado.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (17222) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA17218 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 18:24:18 GMT Received: from griffith.Colorado.EDU (griffith.Colorado.EDU [128.138.228.76]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA18330 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:28:19 -0800 Received: from griffith (genz@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by griffith.Colorado.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.11/Unixops/Hesiod/(SDM)) with SMTP id LAA00175; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:21:37 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <32876EAF.41C67EA6@bechtel.Colorado.edu> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:21:35 -0700 From: Genz Daryl S X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Munger CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] DATWs References: <4CB97FB54C3@chcsn1.ait.ac.nz> <3281E96C.340F@Kode.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Paul Munger wrote: > > oMEn wrote: > > > > Hey there people... > > > > I woz wondering about the Double Around the World record. Last i > > heard it woz 12 by Hu-Mungis and Rippin or sumthing. > > > > Here's me questions: > > > > - do the DATWs have to be a specific direction? ie inside out, > > outside in or a mixture of both? > > > > - how long are you allowed to hold the delay for inbetween each > > DATW? > > > > Well i got 8 in a row outside in with about a half second delay > > inbetween each....and 1 witness :) > > > > Well i'll keep at it and maybe if Rippin's leg falls off then maybe > > one day i could have a shot at the record ay? > > > > damianco@chcsn1.ait.ac.nz > > > > \O > > |\ A.F.F.C. Co-President > > / \_o > > \ ` > > ' > > I think that the current ecord is 18 datw's bt genzu!! thats one way. not sure > which. Rippin has 12 going clock,counter,clock,etc. This is a real bitch to do!! > good luck As for the delay, half a sec isn't bad! > > Hu-Mungis Just for the "record" (;->) it was only 13, but I havn't been workin' on my 3's much lately. Also, they were all in-out dexes. (It won't be 13 for long though...) Genzu From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 12 00:04:01 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA19921 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:04:01 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA19917 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:04:00 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (19914) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA19912 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:03:59 GMT Received: from psycfrnd.interaccess.com (psycfrnd.interaccess.com [198.80.0.26]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA22535 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:07:11 -0800 Received: from [204.148.86.171] (d171.nnb.interaccess.com [204.148.86.171]) by psycfrnd.interaccess.com (8.8.2/8.8.Beta.3) with SMTP id RAA27713; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:34:05 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:36:48 -0500 To: Ida Bettis Fogle , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Judgin Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Ida and Freestylers! Ida had written: >All this time I've been thinking you meant the event to *replace* current >freestyle events. Having this *in addition* I don't have a problem with >- if there's time. I wouldn't be willing to eliminate time consecs for >it :-) & I wouldn't be interested in competing in the new tricks event >myself. I have to say, though, I think the way the judging >presently works (at least at worlds) is heavily adds-oriented, so I'm >still a little unclear on the "need" for another adds-oriented event. Surely you jest. The system may be is only two thirds quantifiable, one third mystery. If you look at the past few years of results, you might notice that the composition and difficulty scores balance out (and we know *why*, which is GOOD), but when you look at presentation scores you will notice HUGE point spreads. If you apply those spreads to the finalists, they are inevitably the deciding factor in the event (and, BTW, no one can tell just why, which is BAD, IMHO). IOW, the past 5 to 8 years of world freestyle championships have been decided by the Presentation card. So how, I ask, can you say the system is so "adds-oriented"? >I'm especially mystified about this whole idea being so strongly >advocated by someone who has traditionally been very strong on >presentation. Ida, I have vowed *never* to do an "interpretive" performance again. Never. This means no more Charlie Brown or Spanish Bolero music (bad fat scott memories). At least from me. Those years I was weak on composition and tried to eeek by with making a fool of myself, but happily I have outgrown that. The entire presentation card is moosh in my book, *almost* every bit of it could be quantified, but not everyone agrees. Oh well...if a lot of people are really hip on a new >tricks events then I think it should be encouraged (as long as I get to >keep my events too!) I'm all for having something for everyone. I do hope >there will still be room for freestyle in future footbag happenings. Don't worry, everyone needs consecutives. (Even those net player people) It will not go away as an event, but I doubt it will ever again be a hotly contested money event. (Or IMHO, it should not be). But FB Golf is another story, not worth typing about. I do say Golf is fun, but I personally don't need the stress of worrying if I am going to miss my next 18 putts, while simultaneously destroying the muscle fibers around my knee. Or worrying about whapping some old lady in the head with a rock-hard driver and sending her to her death bed. No thanks. See ya! Scott. Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 12 00:25:30 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA20081 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:25:29 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA20077 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:25:28 GMT Received: from damianco@chcsn1.ait.ac.nz () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (20074) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA20072 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:25:27 GMT Received: from rangitoto.ait.ac.nz (proxy-3.ait.ac.nz [202.36.72.28]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA22816 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:28:45 -0800 Received: from chcsn1.ait.ac.nz (chcsn1.ait.ac.nz [156.62.128.3]) by rangitoto.ait.ac.nz (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA02067 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:35:54 +1300 Received: from CHCSN1/SpoolDir by chcsn1.ait.ac.nz (Mercury 1.21); 12 Nov 96 13:30:00 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by CHCSN1 (Mercury 1.21); 12 Nov 96 13:29:57 +1200 From: "oMEn" Organization: Auckland Institute of Technology To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:29:48 GMT+12 Subject: [freestyle] i hit a 5 adder!! Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.21 Message-ID: <53E27821D51@chcsn1.ait.ac.nz> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hello everyone!! i just hit: blurry barfly twice in a row to be exact...it's taken me AGES to hit it and it's still not all that clean but it's getting there... to be exact it woz: right clipper > left mirage > right double out-in dex > left clipper i'll show ya steve wen ya come over eh? damianco@chcsn1.ait.ac.nz \O |\ A.F.F.C. Co-President / \_o \ ` ' From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 12 01:09:09 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA20419 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 01:09:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA20415 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 01:09:06 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (20412) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA20410 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 01:09:06 GMT Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA23424 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:12:10 -0800 Received: from [17.255.9.137] (microbrat.research.apple.com [17.255.9.137]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA44112; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:12:16 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <53E27821D51@chcsn1.ait.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:14:49 -0800 To: "oMEn" From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] i hit a 5 adder!! Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 5:29 AM -0800 11/12/96, oMEn wrote: >i just hit: > > blurry barfly Damian, This is called "BLURRIEST". Congratulations! >i'll show ya steve wen ya come over eh? I'm not sure I want to go anymore. If you're just gonna skool me, you damn young Kiwi whipper-snappers. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 12 05:52:19 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA22456 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 05:51:34 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA22452 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 05:51:30 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (22448) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA22446 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 05:51:28 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA26839 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 21:54:18 -0800 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.6/SAS 8.06) id AAA17413 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:55:42 -0500 (EST) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Posted-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:55:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611120555.AAA17413@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Good week To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:55:42 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello fellow heads, As Dave briefly stated earlier, I have been having a breakthrough week this week. It all started with Josh Penney's arrival in Philly (my eternal fountain of inspiration, since Sam can't shred here). He showed me the light to dyno, blender and spinning cliipper, all of which I hit this week for the first time. In addition, a few days ago I hit ripwalk, toe-whirl and pixie cross-body rake smoothly for the first time. Then today I hit 4 new four add moves: weak side paradon (left), weak side double over down, spinning osis and gyrating osis. As I said, it's been a good week. Loving this sport, Alex Naro From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 12 22:10:25 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA29580 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:10:20 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA29572 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:10:17 GMT Received: from ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (29569) Received: from Market.NET (root@Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA29565 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:10:11 GMT Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA04943; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:12:38 -0800 Received: from coinc0 (coinc0 [198.209.253.6]) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA01992; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:14:02 -0600 (CST) Received: by coinc0 (SMI-8.6) id QAA05912; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:14:01 -0600 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:14:01 -0600 (CST) From: Ida Bettis Fogle X-Sender: ifogle@coinc0 To: Scott Davidson cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Judgin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Scott Davidson wrote: > > Ida had written: > > >I'm especially mystified about this whole idea being so strongly > >advocated by someone who has traditionally been very strong on > >presentation. > > Ida, I have vowed *never* to do an "interpretive" performance again. > Never. This means no more Charlie Brown or Spanish Bolero music (bad fat > scott memories). At least from me. Those years I was weak on composition > and tried to eeek by with making a fool of myself, but happily I have > outgrown that. Hmmm....I always considered you to do a good job integrating the two aspects. Whatever floats your boat...you've certainly done an awesome job on pushing the edge of difficulty. Your intense dedication & subsequent results are definitely inspiring. But, reading the above, I do feel a little like I would if I suddenly heard Gwendolyn Brooks renounce poetry as a frivolous pursuit. Oh well, I guess each person has to figure out their own goals to pursue. Glad you're happy with what you're doing now, because how you feel about what you're doing is what's really important - but, then you already realize this. Respectfully, Ida (who thinks the world would be a much happier place if everyone did timed consecutives.) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 13 12:44:18 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA03048 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:44:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA03044 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:44:09 GMT Received: from ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3041) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA03039 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:44:08 GMT Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA03239 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 05:47:52 -0800 Received: from coinc0 (coinc0 [198.209.253.6]) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA22783 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 06:47:53 -0600 (CST) Received: by coinc0 (SMI-8.6) id GAA06603; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 06:47:51 -0600 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 06:47:50 -0600 (CST) From: Ida Bettis Fogle X-Sender: ifogle@coinc0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Ooops! Sorry Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ahem, sorry to everyone for accidentally posting a personal message to the list. I will try to be more vigilant on checking the "send to" line before mailing. Ida Bettis Fogle; ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 13 15:00:52 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA04109 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:00:46 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA04098 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:00:42 GMT Received: from holyx@ix.netcom.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4095) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA04093; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:00:41 GMT Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA03683; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 08:04:57 -0800 Received: from (holyx@por-or11-23.ix.netcom.com [204.31.113.183]) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA27143; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 07:05:07 -0800 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 07:05:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199611131505.HAA27143@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> From: holyx@ix.netcom.com (Paul D Vorvick) Subject: [freestyle] Get Yer Hams... To: freestyle@footbag.org To: footbag@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Everybody: I believe I saw the first hamstring post in the "freestyle" list and then a reply in the "footbag" list so I'm posting this message to both. Therefore, if you see this message twice, please don't be alarmed. You have not traveled back in time. This is a simple redundancy. Let's talk hams, shall we? Although I receive open ridicule for it from Mr. Shults, I do manage to run a few miles per week as a cross-training for, of course, rolling pigs. Most of my excercise, however, has been in the form of footbag freestyle. When I run, my hams hurt a bit. This could be due to other factors, but I am going to check into what kind of excersise can be done (without apparatus) to strengthen the hamstrings. I'll keep ya posted. Kick On, Paul V. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 13 18:37:58 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA05792 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 18:37:22 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA05788 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 18:37:20 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5785) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA05783 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 18:37:19 GMT Received: from thymaster.interaccess.com (thymaster.interaccess.com [198.80.0.36]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA05136 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:41:51 -0800 Received: from [207.70.66.114] (d114.cloud.interaccess.com [207.70.66.114]) by thymaster.interaccess.com (8.8.2/8.8.Beta.3) with SMTP id MAA26637; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:41:45 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:44:31 -0500 To: freefloe@continet.com, freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Judgin Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Becca and Freestylers! >Here's my experience as a judge: >I scoring composition most of the top players max-out the cards before their >routines are done...long before for some players. This has always seemed so >ridiculous to me. It basically means that after a certain number of tricks >the card is full and so if players do more different tricks after that point >they get no credit. I hate giving the same score to two people when I know >that one of them did a lot more diverse tricks. Sounds good to me! >Why can't the values be open-ended, meaning if someone did 25 different >dexterity moves and someone else does 35 the score would reflect the second >person's extra work. Cool with me. >As a presentation judge, it's been my experience that the scores are >generally very close. I often judge presentation and only a few times can I >ever remember controversy unless there was a judge new or unfamiliar with >the presentation card (though this has happened and caused results to differ >from what they should have been). We don't hem and haw over it too much, but when there is a discrepancy, it is impossible to figure out where it comes from. At the very least, it would be nice to see how the presentation judges are scoring in each of the five-2 point categories. >I haven't studied the trends on the cards but it seems to me that the >composition and presentation cards are ususally very close at the top levels >and the difference is determined more by adds, add/contact ratio, and DROPS. Well drops can have a big impact. But when the top 3 or 4 players have 1 or less drops, then the presentation card has a huge impact. See ya! Scott. Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Nov 14 00:45:40 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA08767 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:45:13 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA08762 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:45:11 GMT Received: from tlewis7942@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8758) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA08751; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:45:09 GMT From: TLewis7942@aol.com Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com (emout14.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.40]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA06984; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 16:49:42 -0800 Received: by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA04688; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:49:38 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:49:38 -0500 Message-ID: <961113194937_1183241534@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: holyx@ix.netcom.com, freestyle@footbag.org, footbag@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Hamstring curls. Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I think those long stretchy back kicks and outsides might help your hams. Cross train with footbag net! There are some easy ham stretches and in aerobics there is the hamstring curl which means you stand about shoulder width apart and bend your knee, kicking your foot up behind & thus pulling your leg up. Go right /left and also do reps of lefts then rights. You kinda try to kick yourself in the butt -- the key is to visualize and feel the correct muscles. I also do this on the net court to stretch and keep moving and ready. You can feel the muscle with your hand or look at a picture if you don't know it yet. I have also used those rubber band things to stretch and strengthen all the leg muscles. Way to Go Ida breaking another record!!! How do consecutives and golf do on the muscles. tina. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Nov 14 13:59:54 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA14408 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:59:48 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA14397 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:59:45 GMT Received: from ecrvich@lotusbio.giv.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (14394) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA14392; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:59:45 GMT Received: from lotusbio.giv.com (lotusbio.giv.com [207.42.159.10]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA11250; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 06:04:23 -0800 Message-Id: <199611141404.GAA11250@Market.NET> Received: from ecrvich (rad-dhcp-62.giv.com) by lotusbio.giv.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA085200193; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:03:13 -0500 X-Sender: ecrvich@lotusbio.giv.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:55:30 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org, footbag@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: [freestyle] Re: [footbag] hamstrings Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 01:23 AM 11/14/96 -0800, freefloe@continet.com wrote: >Hamstrings are used mainly when the leg is in an extended or straightened I'm kind of surprised this hasn't been mentioned already (or maybe it has and I missed it), but there *are* some freestyle moves that work out the hams, most notably sole stalls. Others include pendulum, rake, and to some extent whirl-like moves. Just remember to practice on both sides. ;-) -- Ernest "Scratch" Crvich #8^i Durham, NC Footbag Freestyle: Give your feet a challenge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Nov 14 19:38:02 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA17263 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:37:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA17252 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:37:57 GMT Received: from holyx@ix.netcom.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (17249) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA17247; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:37:56 GMT Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA12848; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:42:38 -0800 Received: from (holyx@por-or10-12.ix.netcom.com [204.31.113.140]) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA12394; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:42:31 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:42:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199611141942.LAA12394@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> From: holyx@ix.netcom.com (Paul D Vorvick) Subject: [freestyle] My last post re: HaMsTrInGs To: freestyle@footbag.org To: footbag@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey There: 1) I spoke w/Ken Shults today and it's his opinion that WHIRLS, properly executed, are the best hamstring excersise a freestyler can do. This seems to agree with what Scott Davidson wrote (paradox whirls) but also keeps the difficulty to 3 adds (Per Ida Fogle's inquiry). 2) For a 0 add hamstring excersise, LUNGES have been recommended to me. Okay, ready? and... A) Place your hands on your hips. If you feel tension in your shoulders, check and see if you've placed your right hand on your left hip and your left hand on your right hip. If this is the case, the tension can be relieved by placing your right hand on the corresponding right hip and likewise with the left. B) Let's start with our right foot, shall we? Take a giant step forward, keeping your back strait. As your right foot lands, bend at the the knee so that you end up with your right hamstring parallel to the ground and in a 90 degree angle to your calf. ("The calf" refers the fleshy part of the back of your leg, directly under your knee. This does NOT refer to the thing that goes "moo." It is recommended that you do this excercise at least two pastures away from anything that goes "moo.") Note: At this point, your left leg should be fully extended behind you. It is very important that throughout parts A & B, above, you keep your left foot on the ground at all times. If you don't, you run the risk of sustaining a serious sports injury called "falling crotch first onto the floor" (or pasture). Recovery time for this injury depends cheifly on gender. C) NOW you can pick up your left foot and stand up, bringing your left foot to your right foot. If you find that you're not standing, try straitening your knees. If you're still not standing, it's very possible that you are writhing around on the ground with the crotch injury mentioned above. D) Assuming you're not writhing, repeat parts A thru C, starting with your left foot. Continue, alternating feet. If you find that you cannot continue, check and see if you've run into an obstacle, such as the wall or a fence post. I hope this helps. Kick On, Paul V. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Nov 15 03:34:59 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA21211 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 03:34:34 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA21207 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 03:34:33 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (21204) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA21202 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 03:34:32 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA24461 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:39:15 -0800 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.6/SAS 8.06) id WAA23245 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:39:11 -0500 (EST) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Posted-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:39:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611150339.WAA23245@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] DADA To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:39:10 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all, I was just talking to Adrian, and he asked what the difference in adds was between toe-dada and pixie-symposium-butterfly. It was my impression that symposium butterfly = 4 adds, thus plus one pixie = 5 adds. But toe dada (miraging symposium butterfly) only gets 4 adds, and semi-illegit ones at that. What's the deal? Laters, Alex From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 16 15:43:53 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA04147 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:43:40 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA04143 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:43:38 GMT Received: from eric.w.tiffany@williams.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4140) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA04138 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:43:38 GMT Received: from williams.edu (goshen.williams.edu [137.165.4.3]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA02203 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 07:48:39 -0800 Received: from colrain.williams.edu (colrain.williams.edu [137.165.4.4]) by goshen.williams.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26811 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:48:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from iplink077.crocker.com by colrain.williams.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/16Jul96-0543PM) id AA12715; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:48:34 -0500 Message-Id: <328DE463.6F6A@williams.edu> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:09:06 -0500 From: Eric Tiffany Reply-To: Eric.W.Tiffany@williams.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Torque ??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok, so I decided to try hitting torque. BAMM --- I stuck it three times. Sort of... I set off of a left clipper, do an in-out dex with the right leg, at the same time spinning to the right and ending with a left clipper delay. The only thing is, the bag doesn't go behind my left leg into the clipper catch; rather, it seems to want to go between my legs as I spin. So I get the mirage, the half-spin, the x-body delay, but it doesn't look like the torques I've seen other people do. Is this a torque, something else, or what? Whatever it was, it sure felt good to hit it clean. ET -- __/ _ _/ Eric Tiffany etiffany@williams.edu __/ / 171 The Knolls 413-458-0284, __/ _/ Williamstown, MA 01267 2163 fax From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 16 17:38:41 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA04895 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 17:38:35 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA04891 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 17:38:34 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4888) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA04886 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 17:38:32 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA02653 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 09:43:34 -0800 Received: from [204.188.8.41] (dialup2.Market.NET [204.188.8.41]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA03219 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 09:37:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <328DE463.6F6A@williams.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 09:43:33 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Torque ??? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 8:09 AM -0800 11/16/96, Eric Tiffany wrote: >The only thing is, the bag doesn't go behind my left leg into the >clipper catch; rather, it seems to want to go between my legs as I spin. The move you're doing is not torque, but it's close -- I think I've seen about 90% of the people I've watched learn torque, including myself, do this move instead when they first start skooling torque. To hit torque, you have to really focus on making the footbag go under the first leg but not under the second one; the difference is just like the difference between osis and refraction. It's hard to teach osis over e-mail, or torque for that matter, but the key is to put your stalling foot's knee pointing *in* towards your other knee and avoid going over the bag with it. Watch the footbag just as you'd watch it for osis (i.e., try to see yourself stall the bag on your foot before turning your head to the other side for the cross-body pick-up). There are also two ways to do torque -- the "Blur-set" method, and the "all-in-one" method. (My coinage for lack of better terms.) For the Blur-set method, you set the bag with a good solid flick up and under your support leg (planting your setting leg immediately as the bag is in the air) to a good height right smack dab in front of you (i.e., belly-button height or slighly lower) and then just do an osis once the bag is there (two deliberate parts ot the move). For this one, it's easier to keep from getting this move confused from the one you're doing now (miraging refraction?). Kenny Shults and Rippin' Rick tend to do the Blur-set method. For the all-in-one method, you set the bag up and slightly across your front, but not too high, and then *wait* for a split second before jumping off your support leg and onto your other leg pointing directly behind you, forcing the spin. And in the middle of all that, in the single jump, your original support leg goes in-out over the bag as your catching foot (knee pointed into other knee) twists out in the osis form to stall the bag; then you push it up and right yourself at the end in a nice cross-body. The difference between this and the other one is that you pause after the set ever so slightly and you do most of the rest of the move in the air. (In the other version, there is a plant and then an osis; two deliberate motions with one leg or the other on the ground almost entirely throughout the move.) Peter Irish tends to do the all-in-one method. Obviously there are gray areas in the execution of this move, and neither method is better than the other -- it's just how some people conceptualize the move that affects how they hit it. If you're having trouble hitting it one way, you may consider thinking of it the other way. (This is generally true of a lot of moves, by the way.) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 16 20:03:04 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05895 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 20:02:57 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05891 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 20:02:55 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5888) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA05886 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 20:02:53 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA03488 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:07:57 -0800 Received: (from marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id MAA01112; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:07:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:07:44 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne Subject: [freestyle] wierd rake move To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everyone! I hit this move yesterday and I'm not sure what it is. right clip>opp in dex>opp in dex>right rake This move definitly deserves 4 adds because at the end of the move, you really have to make a change in direction (paradox) to get the rake at the end. THis move looks a lot like a blur only except you don't bail to the opposite toe and you do a rake at the end. Maybe it's a blurry ATW to rake. Anyone know what it is?? It's a great move to get your speed on other moves up. See ya, Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 17 00:57:42 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA07926 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 00:57:19 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA07922 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 00:57:17 GMT Received: from genz@bechtel.colorado.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7919) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA07917 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 00:57:16 GMT Received: from cedar.Colorado.EDU (cedar.Colorado.EDU [128.138.228.202]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA04714 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 17:02:22 -0800 Received: from cedar (genz@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cedar.Colorado.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.11/Unixops/Hesiod/(SDM)) with SMTP id RAA26917; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 17:36:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <328E5E08.167EB0E7@bechtel.Colorado.edu> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 17:36:24 -0700 From: Genz Daryl S X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Verhoef Anne CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] wierd rake move References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Verhoef Anne wrote: > > Hi everyone! > > I hit this move yesterday and I'm not sure what it is. > > right clip>opp in dex>opp in dex>right rake > This move definitly deserves 4 adds because at the end of the move, you > really have to make a change in direction (paradox) to get the rake at > the end. THis move looks a lot like a blur only except you don't bail to > the opposite toe and you do a rake at the end. > Maybe it's a blurry ATW to rake. > > Anyone know what it is?? It's a great move to get your speed on other > moves up. > > See ya, > > Adrian > > -- > marigold@vcn.bc.ca I'm not esure what everyone else thinks on this one, but as I see it, the move you've described is actually 2 different moves. Part 1 is a blurry paradox drifter (only caught x-body toe, instead of clip) = 5adds. Part 2 is a rake = 2 adds. Any way you look at it though, the move is definitely bad-ass. (even though technically, it's a guilt - but, it may/should be considered a special case - so if you busted out this move, you probably wouldn't get too much flack for the guilt ;->) Later, Genzu From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 17 09:09:35 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA11145 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 09:09:24 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA11141 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 09:09:22 GMT From: freefloe@continet.com Received: from freefloe@continet.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11138) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA11136 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 09:09:20 GMT Received: from falcon.continet.com ([206.58.168.254]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA06398 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 01:14:29 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME ([206.58.168.73]) by falcon.continet.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-10248) with SMTP id AAA43 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 01:28:23 -0800 X-Sender: freefloe@continet.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] wierd rake move Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 01:28:23 -0800 Message-ID: <19961117092822808.AAA43@LOCALNAME> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Daryl wrote the following regarding a move (not important which) > (even though technically, it's a guilt - >but,... you probably wouldn't >get too much flack for the guilt No offense to Daryl or any individual BAP member, however, I am personally getting tired of this apparent "attitude" that moves involving guilt (or tilt for that matter) are not worthy and the seemingly implied attitude that players who cannot hit these big moves are somewhat lame or might get "flack." It seems against the spirit of footbag as a sport where diversity in styles have generally been valued. As the sport continues to grow it will be more and more difficult to maintain the inclusive atmosphere amongst players within the sport and good sportspersonship in general. The way top players present themselves and information now will have a big impact on the future of our sport. There are so many very cool 2 add moves that look great in combos though if the emphasis becomes solely to link only 3 add moves or 4 add moves these moves become lost and unappreciated. I also think it pushes new players to learn difficult tricks without having a foundation of basic kicks and/or variety of tricks. I do not have a problem at all with BAPs philosophy of pushing the limits of what can be done with a footbag. This has most definitely advanced the sport in many ways and should be recognized. And individually all members of BAP are very good people, most long time friends of mine, though this dynamic is starting to remind me of the fraternity syndrome where individually people are cool though as a group they are exclusive and arrogant. Sorry for the editorial...ready for the return comments...fire away... peace, becca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 17 09:50:58 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA11427 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 09:50:57 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA11423 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 09:50:54 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11419) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA11417 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 09:50:53 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA06526 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 01:56:02 -0800 Received: from [17.127.18.241] ([17.127.18.241]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA06904 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 01:50:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19961117092822808.AAA43@LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 01:56:18 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] wierd rake move Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:28 AM -0800 11/17/96, freefloe@continet.com wrote: >Daryl wrote the following regarding a move (not important which) > >> (even though technically, it's a guilt - >>but,... you probably wouldn't >>get too much flack for the guilt > >No offense to Daryl or any individual BAP member, however, I am personally >getting tired of this apparent "attitude" that moves involving guilt Okay, two things: (1) Adrian's move has a single contact (so the issue of guilt doesn't come into play since it's clearly a 3-add move: miraging-around-the-world). If you guys ever agreed with me that the in-out dexterity from a clipper was in fact paradox, it'd be four adds, but nobody agrees, so it's three. (Adrian just described it wrong -- it's just like a Blur, except that you catch it with your second dexterity toe after going around the bag, in-out.) By the way, Adrian's move is most definitely not a rake move. He just thought it was because of the way he hit the ATW pick-up. (Right, Adrian?) (2) I think Daryl was really kidding, Becca, but I know where you're coming from. I think the biggest issue is for everyone to know that BAP is a club -- if you want in it, you play by their rules. But they can't go enforcing their rules outside their club; and except for kidding around sometimes (and by setting the example they choose to set), they don't really impose their rules on anyone else. You may sense attitude from time to time, but don't let it get to you. Everyone could probably stand to be reminded to play their own game and feel good about it. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 17 17:53:51 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA14635 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:53:49 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA14631 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:53:47 GMT Received: from ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (14628) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA14626 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:53:47 GMT Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA07814 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 09:59:00 -0800 Received: from coinc0 (coinc0 [198.209.253.6]) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14178; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:58:48 -0600 (CST) Received: by coinc0 (SMI-8.6) id LAA21703; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:58:46 -0600 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:58:46 -0600 (CST) From: Ida Bettis Fogle X-Sender: ifogle@coinc0 To: freefloe@continet.com cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] wierd rake move In-Reply-To: <19961117092822808.AAA43@LOCALNAME> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 17 Nov 1996 freefloe@continet.com wrote: > Daryl wrote the following regarding a move (not important which) > > > (even though technically, it's a guilt - > >but,... you probably wouldn't > >get too much flack for the guilt > > No offense to Daryl or any individual BAP member, however, I am personally > getting tired of this apparent "attitude" that moves involving guilt (or > tilt for that matter) are not worthy and the seemingly implied attitude that > players who cannot hit these big moves are somewhat lame or might get > "flack." It seems against the spirit of footbag as a sport where diversity > in styles have generally been valued. > > As the sport continues to grow it will be more and more difficult to > maintain the inclusive atmosphere amongst players within the sport and good > sportspersonship in general. The way top players present themselves and > information now will have a big impact on the future of our sport. > > There are so many very cool 2 add moves that look great in combos though if > the emphasis becomes solely to link only 3 add moves or 4 add moves these > moves become lost and unappreciated. I also think it pushes new players to > learn difficult tricks without having a foundation of basic kicks and/or > variety of tricks. > > I do not have a problem at all with BAPs philosophy of pushing the limits of > what can be done with a footbag. This has most definitely advanced the > sport in many ways and should be recognized. And individually all members > of BAP are very good people, most long time friends of mine, though this > dynamic is starting to remind me of the fraternity syndrome where > individually people are cool though as a group they are exclusive and arrogant. > > Sorry for the editorial...ready for the return comments...fire away... > > peace, > becca My return comment is that you did an excellent job of voicing my exact feelings. I wanted to say something similar, but probably wouldn't have said it as well as you did. I had someone tell me recently that I needed to stop doing those one-add spins because they lowered my add-ratio. I said, "never" I love my spins. They're fun, they're great, they're my favorite move. I'll never stop doing them just to get a number written down on a piece of paper. When I watch freestyle, I can find something to admire in everyone's individual style. For people like BAPers, the difficulty, dexterity, etc. is mind-blowing. For some other people, the way they can use their bodies & a footbag to interpret a piece of music is a well-developed art; with some freestylers, just watching the way they move through & use the space they have is incredible; some kickers have a beautiful smoothness & flow to their freestyle. I could go on & on with more examples. To me, that's the beauty of footbag freestyle, there's so much that can be done with it that everyone truly can develop their own style. Well, enough rambling - I'm supposed to be packing so we can move. peas (whirled or otherwise, as suits your taste) Ida Ida Bettis Fogle; ifogle@mail.coin.missouri.edu From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 17 23:57:23 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA17254 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 23:57:05 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA17250 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 23:57:04 GMT Received: from humungis@kode.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (17247) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA17245 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 23:57:04 GMT Received: from bsd1.kode.net (bsd1.kode.net [206.42.219.3]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA09048 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 16:02:20 -0800 Received: from kodenet.kode.net (ppp-25.kode.net [206.42.219.44]) by bsd1.kode.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA16165 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:10:05 -0800 Message-ID: <328FA6B5.2E85@Kode.net> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 18:58:45 -0500 From: Paul Munger X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] ESPN Let down!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, I have been watching ESPN for the footbag coverage but alas it has been bumped. They just said that NFL highlights are next,BUMMER:-( I wonder what happens now? Just thought I would let you guys know. Hu-Mungis Ps this was eastern time so you guys out west may have seen it. Anything? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 18 00:00:23 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA17314 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 00:00:22 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA17310 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 00:00:21 GMT From: mstrong@ix.netcom.com Received: from mstrong@ix.netcom.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (17307) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA17305 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 00:00:20 GMT Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.9]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA09068 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 16:05:35 -0800 Received: from smtp.netcruiser (dal-tx6-28.ix.netcom.com [207.94.122.92]) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA14972 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 16:05:28 -0800 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 16:05:28 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-Id: <1996111718611141@ix.netcom.com> Subject: [freestyle] ESPN coverage??? X-Mailer: NETCOMplete v3.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Did anyone actually see any show on footbag this Sunday on ESPN. I'm in the central time zone, and at 5:30 they were still showing some tennis doubles. I saw on the cable preview channel, that ESPN was suppose to air a show called "Unbelievable sports" at 5:30, but nothing happened. Does anyone know when or if this show will be re-broadcast? -Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 18 00:10:35 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA17406 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 00:10:34 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA17402 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 00:10:32 GMT Received: from genz@bechtel.colorado.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (17399) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA17397 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 00:10:31 GMT Received: from cedar.Colorado.EDU (cedar.Colorado.EDU [128.138.228.202]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA09117 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 16:15:45 -0800 Received: from cedar (genz@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cedar.Colorado.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.11/Unixops/Hesiod/(SDM)) with SMTP id RAA27294; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:15:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <328FAAA8.2781E494@bechtel.Colorado.edu> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:15:37 -0700 From: Genz Daryl S X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Munger CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] ESPN Let down!! References: <328FA6B5.2E85@Kode.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Paul Munger wrote: > > Hello, I have been watching ESPN for the footbag coverage but alas it has been > bumped. They just said that NFL highlights are next,BUMMER:-( I wonder what happens > now? Just thought I would let you guys know. > > Hu-Mungis > > Ps this was eastern time so you guys out west may have seen it. Anything? I JUST **WASTED** A HALF AN HOUR WATCHING THE !^@%%^%$^%%$#^%#$%$^@$^$@^ TENNIS %$#%#$%#@%$^ DOUBLES CHAMPOINSHIPS. ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS #%$#%@%@%$%$^%^$%@#%!#&%&.! DAMN DAMN DAMN. Shit. Guess that goes to show how much others still think of our sport. Maybe next time they'll really show it. What a let down... Daryl ;-( From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 18 01:02:57 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA17814 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:02:44 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA17810 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:02:42 GMT Received: from sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (17807) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA17805 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:02:41 GMT Received: from dept.english.upenn.edu (DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU [130.91.75.246]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA09270 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:07:55 -0800 Received: (from sunilj@localhost) by dept.english.upenn.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) id UAA70924; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:07:46 -0500 From: Sunil Jani Message-Id: <199611180107.UAA70924@dept.english.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] ESPN Let down!! To: HuMungis@kode.net (Paul Munger) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:07:46 -0500 (EST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <328FA6B5.2E85@Kode.net> from "Paul Munger" at Nov 17, 96 06:58:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey All: I was hugely disapointed at the lack of Footbag coverage as well. I originally thought that the Tennis Champs were live and just went longer than the ESPN people thought (or they used the footbag champs as a filler), but Alex told me that the tennis champs were TAPED and so the ESPN people had to have previously known how long they would run. What is the deal?? Why *&%$* with us? I hope Sports Illustrated does not dash our hopes as well. Any word on that article??? Sunil Jani PENN FOOTBAG From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 18 01:32:54 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA18073 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:32:53 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA18069 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:32:52 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18066) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA18064 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:32:51 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA09369 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:38:08 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id UAA13681; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:37:22 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:35:51 PST Subject: [freestyle] ESPN Letdown Message-ID: <19961117.203552.3806.2.dervish@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Okay, okay, no way around it. But ESPN HQ is here in the City, and I'll call tomorrow (when they're open) and find out about a rebroadcast sooner than whenever it's supposed to be. Just sittin' tight, JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 18 02:33:26 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA18580 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 02:33:25 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA18576 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 02:33:23 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18573) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA18571 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 02:33:22 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA09573 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 18:38:38 -0800 Received: from [17.127.18.241] ([17.127.18.241]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA10564; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 18:32:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19961117.203552.3806.2.dervish@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 18:38:41 -0800 To: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] ESPN Letdown Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The real pain in the ass is that this was the only prime-time broadcast slot we had. The other rebroadcasts of the program are in the middle of the week during the day when most people are at WORK. They didn't even as much as have the courtesy to run a banner along the bottom of the screen telling us that Unbelievable Sports had been preempted. Josh, give them HELL and ask them what kind of network they're running. Sure it's fine to show the tennis if it runs over, but for goodness' sake at least MENTION the program change so that viewers know what's up. Damn. So it'll air again at least this Thursday at 2pm Eastern (note: 2pm not 2:30!) but it won't air in prime-time until next March. See what I mean about us getting fucked every time we get a major chance at fame? And I'm sorry but I'll never watch another tennis game on TV again, especially not with the Boner brothers. Oh, sorry, the Woodies. Whatever. Freaks. Can't they finish a tennis game like normal people? And what's with that "bathroom break"?! :-( Man, I mean, seriously. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 18 02:41:21 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA18693 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 02:41:20 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA18688 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 02:41:19 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18685) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA18683 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 02:41:18 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA09602 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 18:46:35 -0800 Received: (from marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id RAA03735; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:54:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:54:40 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne Subject: Re: [freestyle] ESPN Let down!! To: Paul Munger cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <328FA6B5.2E85@Kode.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Paul Munger wrote: > Hello, I have been watching ESPN for the footbag coverage but alas it has been > bumped. They just said that NFL highlights are next,BUMMER:-( I wonder what happens > now? Just thought I would let you guys know. > > Hu-Mungis > > Ps this was eastern time so you guys out west may have seen it. Anything? I know how you guys feel. I had a feeling this would happen! I live in Vancouver, b.c and it wasn't on here either, some stupid NFL thing was on, I say we send them some exploding mail letters! Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 18 17:19:46 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA26140 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:19:37 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA26136 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:19:35 GMT Received: from dyun@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (26133) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA26131 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:19:35 GMT Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA12710 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:24:55 -0800 Received: (from dyun@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.6/SAS 8.06) id MAA29410 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:24:50 -0500 (EST) From: dyun@sas.upenn.edu (Dennis Yun) Posted-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:24:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611181724.MAA29410@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] ugh! No footbag on ESPN! To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:24:49 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just wanted to express my disappointment at ESPN not showing Incredible Sports (?) last night at 6:30. Instead, they had extended coverage of tennis. Anyone know when the next showing is this week? Dennis dyun@sas.upenn.edu From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Nov 21 05:39:29 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA05484 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 05:39:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA05480 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 05:39:22 GMT Received: from dk713994@oak.cats.ohiou.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5477) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA05475 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 05:39:22 GMT Received: from oak.cats.ohiou.edu (oak.cats.ohiou.edu [132.235.8.44]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07756 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:34:13 -0800 Received: from localhost by oak.cats.ohiou.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/03Feb95-1128AM) id AA14887; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:40:03 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:40:03 -0500 (EST) From: Pale Rider To: "Footbag (freestyle)" Subject: [freestyle] ESPN bastards! Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well, that show at 4:30 was NOT the footbag episode of Unbelievable Sports. I for one am disappointed. They'd better get their heads out of their asses and get that on the air. At least a clip of freestyle makes the opening credits. Not enough for me. \ O Darren O / \ /\ Russell - /- . | \ Kautz / \ | From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Nov 21 14:31:44 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA08766 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:31:43 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA08762 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:31:42 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8759) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA08757 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:31:41 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA12639 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:27:05 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id BAB06895; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 01:18:58 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 00:28:51 PST Subject: [freestyle] dreaming of sickness Message-ID: <19961121.003935.19118.7.dervish@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-11 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I realized we hadn't started an impossible line of discussion in the last week or so, So I thought/// well- Okay, so I hit Food Processor this afternoon (torque with a blender...dyno really...blurry dyno?) and I was wondering who's hitting paradox torque with ease, because adding a swirl onto that would be INsane- paradox Food processor? Then again - who out there is working on the triple 'round? I wanna try triple pickup too; as soon as I get some plastic knees. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Nov 22 01:14:29 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA11751 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:14:12 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA11747 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:14:11 GMT Received: from danzilla@mail.utexas.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11744) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA11742 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:14:10 GMT Received: from smtp.utexas.edu (smtp.utexas.edu [128.83.126.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA17100 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:09:40 -0800 Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 0); 21 Nov 1996 17:09:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.utexas.edu) (128.83.126.1) by smtp.utexas.edu with SMTP; 21 Nov 1996 17:09:34 -0000 Received: from UT.cc.utexas.edu (slip-8-14.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.204.126]) by mail.utexas.edu with SMTP id LAA17380 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:09:32 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:09:32 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611211709.LAA17380@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: danzilla@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org From: danzilla@mail.utexas.edu (Dan Sharber) Subject: Re: [freestyle] dreaming of sickness Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >I realized we hadn't started an impossible line of discussion in the last >week or so, >So I thought/// well- >Okay, so I hit Food Processor this afternoon >(torque with a blender...dyno really...blurry dyno?) So is Dyno just paradox blender? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Nov 22 01:30:28 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA11889 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:30:27 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA11885 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:30:25 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11882) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA11880 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:30:25 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA17196 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:25:24 -0800 Received: from [204.188.8.41] ([17.127.19.236]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA18736 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:19:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611211709.LAA17380@mail.utexas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:25:36 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] dreaming of sickness Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:09 AM -0800 11/21/96, Dan Sharber wrote: >So is Dyno just paradox blender? No. Dyno is a reverse-blender. Big difference. Actually, Dimitri (the God of Dyno) claimed that Dyno was more than just a reverse-dexterity blender. He said it was a jumping reverse blender, i.e., it looked symposium. He said that the move most people now call Dyno is just Reverse Blender. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Nov 22 06:47:08 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA13787 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 06:47:03 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA13783 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 06:47:02 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (13780) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA13778 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 06:47:02 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA19739 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:42:03 -0800 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.3/SAS 8.06) id RAA21952 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:41:56 -0500 (EST) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Posted-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:41:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611212241.RAA21952@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] uestions To: freestyle@footbag.org (freestyle list-serv) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:41:55 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org So I have a couple of questions. First: How many adds for symposium butterfly? Is there such a thing? I think there is not, that it is simply 3 adds. Second: If I do paradon, but catch in same side osis instead, wouldn't that move be a reverse-miraging dyno? If I set it from clipper would it not be a paradox-reverse miraging dyno (6 adds?). Thanks Alex From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Nov 22 08:13:13 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA14282 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:13:02 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA14278 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:13:01 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (14275) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA14273 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:13:01 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA20501 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:07:57 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id TAC21688; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 19:02:36 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:51:47 PST Subject: Re: [freestyle] dreaming of sickness Message-ID: <19961121.190159.4486.2.dervish@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-7,9,11-13,15-17 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:25:36 -0800 "Steven L. Goldberg" writes: >At 9:09 AM -0800 11/21/96, Dan Sharber wrote: >>So is Dyno just paradox blender? > >No. Dyno is a reverse-blender. Big difference. > >Actually, Dimitri (the God of Dyno) claimed that Dyno was more than >just a reverse-dexterity blender. He said it was a jumping reverse blender, >i.e., it looked symposium. He said that the move most people now call Dyno >is just Reverse Blender. I was under the impression that dyno was a reverse whirling osis, which looks different. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Nov 22 08:22:06 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA14364 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:22:06 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA14360 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:22:05 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (14357) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA14355 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:22:04 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA20589 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:17:37 -0800 Received: from [17.255.9.137] (microbrat.research.apple.com [17.255.9.137]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA22994; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:11:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19961121.190159.4486.2.dervish@juno.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:19:44 -0800 To: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] dreaming of sickness Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 6:51 PM -0800 11/21/96, Josh Penney wrote: >I was under the impression that dyno was a reverse whirling osis, which >looks different. I don't know whether you're contradicting the first part of what I said or the second. I.e., are you saying that somehow "reverse blender" is different than "reverse-whirling osis", or are you comparing your definition to Dimitri's definition of Dyno (as a "symposium-like" jumping reverse blender)? Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Nov 22 08:48:56 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA14462 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:48:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA14458 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:48:55 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (14455) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA14453 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:48:54 GMT Received: from oxywhite.interaccess.com (oxywhite.interaccess.com [198.80.0.100]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA20788 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:43:55 -0800 Received: from [207.70.66.75] (d75.cloud.interaccess.com [207.70.66.75]) by oxywhite.interaccess.com (8.8.2/8.8.Beta.3) with SMTP id SAA17184; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:43:39 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:46:49 -0500 To: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney), freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] dreaming of sickness Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! Josh wrote: >Okay, so I hit Food Processor this afternoon >(torque with a blender...dyno really...blurry dyno?) Very nice! Good job. This is a perfect situation for the ripwalk style set, or in this case, the "kenny torque". If you switch to the rip style set for this move then you have more time, and better control of your body (as you never go airborne) to do the reverse blender (dyno). I have been skoolin' it, and would be interested to see how yours looks. Call it "Blurry Dyno" if you want, I have been calling it "Blurry Reverse Blender" because it seemed more topical lately. 6 Adds. Also try it with a Pogo style set (truly Loco because you never step down and you maintain the true symposiumness of the move) and it is worth 7 adds, and I have hit it. :-) Loco Paradox Reverse Blender. >and I was wondering who's hitting paradox torque with ease, because >adding a swirl >onto that would be INsane- paradox Food processor? Yes, Insane is correct, but worth a shot. See ya! Enlightener. Scott D. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 24 09:32:09 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA27883 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 09:31:46 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA27879 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 09:31:44 GMT Received: from dk713994@oak.cats.ohiou.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (27876) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA27874 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 09:31:43 GMT Received: from oak.cats.ohiou.edu (oak.cats.ohiou.edu [132.235.8.44]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02432 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 1996 17:27:07 -0800 Received: from localhost by oak.cats.ohiou.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/03Feb95-1128AM) id AA22808; Sat, 23 Nov 1996 20:33:00 -0500 Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 20:33:00 -0500 (EST) From: "Darren R. Kautz" To: "Footbag (freestyle)" Subject: [freestyle] Goodbye for now. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well folks, it is once again time for me to head home for my holiday break. My break consists of six weeks of time away from school. This is good except for my lack of a computer at home. This means that this is my last letter to the list for a month or so! Good luck to all in every kicking endeavor in which partake over this time... And I expect this whole paradox debate to be cleared up by the time I get back!!! ;) Later all. \ O Darren O / \ /\ Russell - /- . | \ Kautz / \ | From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 25 05:39:23 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA00321 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 05:39:12 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA00317 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 05:39:11 GMT Received: from elklein@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (314) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA00312 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 05:39:10 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA00431 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 13:34:53 -0800 Received: (from elklein@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.3/SAS 8.06) id QAA02964 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 16:34:52 -0500 (EST) From: elklein@sas.upenn.edu (Ethan L Klein) Posted-Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 16:34:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611242134.QAA02964@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Christmas JAMMMM! To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 16:34:51 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Just a little inquiry to all you shredders, Who is planning on going to the Christmas Jam in Flint? I'm assuming that Scott and the Michigan consortium will be in attendence. How about Joe Marshell (Sp?), Darrell G. and Rippin (and Darrell G.'s girlfriend?) Steve, any BAFL heads planning on making the trek to the Michi of gan? I don't know how solidly the East will represent. The only two confirmations are Sumesnake-dog Vijay Sekeren and myelf. The Michigan Christmas Jam last year caused a fundemental change in my freestyle game, in my freestyle mental disposition, in my outlook, in my life! To see Rippin do Down Double Downs on both sides, NO PROBLEM! was awe-inspiring, to use a WEAK description. Anyway, I just wanted to get an idea of who on the net is planning on rolling and to try and persuade all budding shredders to go, seeing what it single-handedly did to my own game. Peace out my brethren, Ethan Paul, is shredding planned for all three days (Fri-Sun.)? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 25 07:57:49 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA00943 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 07:57:47 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA00939 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 07:57:46 GMT Received: from "tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (936) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA00934 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 07:57:46 GMT Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [205.252.116.101]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA01292 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 15:53:19 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as43s41.erols.com [207.172.114.209]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA16670 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 18:53:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611242353.SAA16670@smtp1.erols.com> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 18:58:12 -0500 From: tuanvu <"tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com> Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] ESPN sucks again Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was flipping through my T.V guide and there is no Unbelieveable Sports planned for at least a week. By the next time they show an episode it propably will be a new show and the one they were suppose two weeks ago proably won't air till March. Well, tough luck. Any shredders going to be in Bay Area during Thanksgiving? I think a few people are going to meet on the weekend sometime but I'm not sure. Tuan and I will be arriving on thursday. I also think Eric Wulff will be in the area sometime that weekend. 2 Huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 25 11:02:09 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA01793 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:02:07 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA01789 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:02:07 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1786) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA01784 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:02:06 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA02565 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 18:57:43 -0800 Received: from [17.127.19.69] ([17.127.19.167]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA14332; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 18:51:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611242353.SAA16670@smtp1.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 18:57:46 -0800 To: tuanvu@erols.com, freestyle@footbag.org From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: [freestyle] BAFL Thanksgiving Shreds Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 3:58 PM -0800 11/24/96, tuanvu wrote: > Any shredders going to be in Bay Area during Thanksgiving? I >think a few people are going to meet on the weekend sometime but I'm not >sure. Tuan and I will be arriving on thursday. I also think Eric Wulff > will be in the area sometime that weekend. Yes, it's going to be a major weekend in freestyle (and net)! Okay, here's the plan -- I'm making this up as I go along, so bear with me: FRIDAY, 11/19 (day after Thanksgiving): Freestyle Shred in San Francisco (somewhere) Call me 408-773-9110 or Lisa 415-668-8146 on Friday morning SATURDAY, 11/20 Freestyle Shred *and* Major Net Pick-Up Session U.C. Berkeley Campus -- the SPOT SUNDAY, 11/21 What do you think? The usual HEINOUS footbag session in San Francisco -- Golden Gate Park. --- Peter Irish will definitely be at the Sunday session, but he's not sure about the others. Toby and Dave will be at one of them, possibly two, and Ryan Mulroney will be visiting family in Oakland (fifteen minutes from U.C. Berkeley) from LA for Thanksgiving. Eric will be back Friday night, as will Carol, so they'll be rearin' to go for both Saturday and Sunday kicks. Of course there're literally ten or 15 more freestylers who live here (too many to name, honestly) so these kicks will rage. Party at Lisa McDaniel's Saturday night. :-) I'm sure that's news to Lisa, so break it to her gently. :-) Heh heh.. See you all here. Come from far and wide and let's shred it up. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 25 11:02:11 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA01783 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:02:00 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA01779 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:01:58 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1776) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA01774 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:01:57 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA02551 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 18:57:30 -0800 Received: from [17.127.19.69] ([17.127.19.167]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA14324; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 18:51:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611242134.QAA02964@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 18:50:12 -0800 To: elklein@sas.upenn.edu (Ethan L Klein) From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Christmas JAMMMM! Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:34 PM -0800 11/24/96, Ethan L Klein wrote: > Who is planning on going to the Christmas Jam in Flint? Dude as always, I really want to go, but I just can't do it. I'm going to Richmond, Virginia for Christmas, and it's too hard to get to Flint in time for the session. I wish in fact that Paul would consider moving the shred to New Year's from now on (i.e., Dec 31st). That'd give me the time I need, I don't know about anyone else. Anyway, I hear rumors that Josh Penney is trying to put together a DC Freestyle Jam for those folks who can't make it to Michigan. Anyone within driving distance of DC might consider hooking into that. I'll be there, if it happens. I think we're talking about having it on Friday/27 or Saturday/28. Nothing at all has been arranged (as far as I know) but I'm hoping something comes together. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 27 23:43:02 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA14841 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:42:34 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA14837 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:42:32 GMT Received: from humungis@kode.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (14834) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA14832 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:42:31 GMT Received: from bsd1.kode.net (bsd1.kode.net [206.42.219.3]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA23614 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 07:38:59 -0800 Received: from kodenet.kode.net (ppp-44.kode.net [206.42.219.63]) by bsd1.kode.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA23479 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:47:18 -0800 Message-ID: <329C5F9C.31E9@Kode.net> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:34:52 -0500 From: Paul Munger X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] X-Mas Jam Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone!! Sup!! I have great news.(for me anyway) Being the low man(one of only 4 men and about 30 women)on the totumpole I was feeling the heat from my manager about getting my requested time off for the Jam. I got it. WHEW!! I now can make all plans in complete confidence that I will indeed be able to attend. The hotel will be holding the rooms until the night be 4 the jam. So whos coming?? E-mail me and let me know. please. Things are coming together(the mall is out):( but other sponsors are in the works so i'll keep u posted. well bed time cya. Hu-Mungis From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Nov 29 21:00:33 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA19681 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 29 Nov 1996 20:59:47 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA19677 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 29 Nov 1996 20:59:46 GMT Received: from humungis@kode.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (19674) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA19672 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 1996 20:59:46 GMT Received: from bsd1.kode.net (bsd1.kode.net [206.42.219.3]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA01165 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 1996 04:56:36 -0800 Received: from kodenet.kode.net (ppp-60.kode.net [206.42.219.79]) by bsd1.kode.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA11635 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 1996 08:05:05 -0800 Message-ID: <329EDC8C.5F9E@Kode.net> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 07:52:28 -0500 From: Paul Munger X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] OPPS!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello everyone. I have just sent out a bunch of mail with some wrong info. Sorry:( The number to the hotel is 810-732-0400. Remember to tell them that you are with the X-mas Jam! I would have sent this to the announcements list but I am not sure if all of you are getting it. Sorry Steve. Looking forward to redeaming myself after the total SPANKING that I have recently recieved from Enlightener last weekend. My every other day skooling has started! Hu-Mungis