From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Dec 1 09:54:14 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA22369 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 09:52:45 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA22365 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 09:52:44 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (22362) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA22360 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 09:52:44 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA08167 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 17:49:45 -0800 Received: (from marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id RAA20729; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 17:48:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 17:48:34 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne Reply-To: Verhoef Anne Subject: [freestyle] Pogo slur To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi freestylers, I was wondering if you did a pogo slur (basically a difraction set), do you still get 1 add? For example pogo reverse mirage (symposium blizzard) gets 5 adds; if you did a pogo slur set, would you get 4 adds? I've been doing symposium blizzard for a while and it's very fun to do but hard without doing a slur set. It seems that way with all pogo moves. See ya, Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Dec 2 23:07:57 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA26654 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 23:06:30 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA26650 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 23:06:29 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (26647) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA26645 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 23:06:28 GMT Received: from flowbee.interaccess.com (flowbee.interaccess.com [198.80.0.32]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA06750 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:06:34 -0800 Received: from [207.70.66.179] (d179.cloud.interaccess.com [207.70.66.179]) by flowbee.interaccess.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA02880; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:06:05 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:09:54 -0500 To: Verhoef Anne , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo slur Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! Response to Adrian: I am not sure if I understand you, but here goes... >I was wondering if you did a pogo slur (basically a difraction set), do >you still get 1 add? Yes. It is a leg dex, but not a symposium one. >For example pogo reverse mirage (symposium blizzard) gets 5 adds; if you >did a pogo slur set, would you get 4 adds? No. Pogo Reverse Mirage (Pogo-style Blizzard) get 4 adds. This is because the "symposiumness" of the move ends prior to the closing contact. So it doesn't matter if you slur the set or not. You only get that "symposium" add on moves that maintain the "symposiumness" of the move all the way to the final contact. >I've been doing symposium blizzard for a while and it's very fun to do >but hard without doing a slur set. It seems that way with all pogo moves. It is a fun variation from regular blizzard, and variety is the spice of life. But don't bother trying to do both a blizzard and a pogo-style blizzard if it just for points in a worlds style scoring system, they are technically IDENTICAL. But in the real world, try linking it to some jumbo moves and make a truly phat combo! See ya! Scott. Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Dec 3 23:19:22 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA30808 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:17:44 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA30804 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:17:43 GMT Received: from "tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (30801) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA30799 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:17:43 GMT Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [205.252.116.101]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA13964; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:18:01 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as50s66.erols.com [207.172.111.66]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA08071; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:17:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612032317.SAA08071@smtp1.erols.com> Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 18:22:45 -0500 From: tuanvu <"tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com> Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Davidson CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo slur References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello everyone, This is Tuan here. Just read some email and thought I'd add my two cents... > No. Pogo Reverse Mirage (Pogo-style Blizzard) get 4 adds. This is because > the "symposiumness" of the move ends prior to the closing contact. So it > doesn't matter if you slur the set or not. You only get that "symposium" > add on moves that maintain the "symposiumness" of the move all the way to > the final contact. If that were true, then doing a symposium legbeater would be four adds and not five even though there's a front side symposium. Just because you plant your set foot finishing whatever move it is concerning pogo, the symposium part is done. So long as you don't plant your set foot when doing the pogo, it should be a two add set. Regardless of what you do after the pogo, that part of the trick is done. If you did a symposium mirage and completed the symposium dexterity and then planted your foot, it's still three adds. > >I've been doing symposium blizzard for a while and it's very fun to do but hard without doing a slur set. By the way, what's a "slur" set? Later, Tuan Vu tuanvu@erols.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Dec 4 22:43:07 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA04346 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:41:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA04340 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:41:51 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4336) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA04329; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:41:50 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA20175; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:42:19 -0800 Received: from [17.255.9.137] (microbrat.research.apple.com [17.255.9.137]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA28527; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:36:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:44:37 -0800 To: footbag@footbag.org From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: [freestyle] Gone Fishin' Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey folks. This is just a quick note to let everyone know I'll be travelling for the next day (starting in about an hour), so if you send e-mail to announce@footbag.org or in certain cases if you post to footbag@footbag.org, your mail may not show up until sometime tomorrow afternoon or evening. I hope that's okay. In case anyone is interested :-) I'm going to New Zealand. I'll be shredding with the AFFC (see http://www.footbag.org/clubs/auckland.html). I should be online from there (thanks to those great Kiwi footbaggers, especially Adrian Dick), and hopefully things will go smooth on the list when I'm not. Don't expect the usual 15-minute responses from me. :-) I'll be back in California on Saturday afternoon, Dec. 14th. See you! Steve P.S. Freestylers: some of you will get this twice; sorry about that. :-) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Dec 4 23:10:06 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04503 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 23:09:02 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04499 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 23:09:01 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4496) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04494 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 23:09:01 GMT Received: from psycfrnd.interaccess.com (psycfrnd.interaccess.com [198.80.0.26]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA20308 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:09:26 -0800 Received: from [207.70.66.108] (d108.cloud.interaccess.com [207.70.66.108]) by psycfrnd.interaccess.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA19975; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:09:20 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:13:07 -0500 To: tuanvu <"tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com>, freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo slur Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Tuan and Freestylers! Tuan, howz life in the Bay Area? Sounds like quite the shred fest. I wrote: >> No. Pogo Reverse Mirage (Pogo-style Blizzard) get 4 adds. This is because >> the "symposiumness" of the move ends prior to the closing contact. So it >> doesn't matter if you slur the set or not. You only get that "symposium" >> add on moves that maintain the "symposiumness" of the move all the way to >> the final contact. Then you wrote: >If that were true, then doing a symposium legbeater would be four adds and >not five even >though there's a front side symposium. Just because you plant your set >foot finishing >whatever move it is concerning pogo, the symposium part is done. So long >as you don't >plant your set foot when doing the pogo, it should be a two add set. >Regardless of what >you do after the pogo, that part of the trick is done. If you did a >symposium mirage >and completed the symposium dexterity and then planted your foot, it's >still three adds. I am having trouble visualizing symposium legbeater so I can't argue empirically with you. And I don't want to step on any toes, so keep in mind this is not personal in any way. It has been generally agreed upon, that in order to get the body add for symposium moves, that the symposiumness of the move must be maintained until the closing contact. Now, while this may effect the "add" count of some of the moves out there, is does nothing to destroy your variety and unique moves. The latter of which is the most valuable (by 10x). >By the way, what's a "slur" set? A slur set is when you attempt a Pogo-style set, but your support foot never (or barely) leaves the ground, thereby forcing the path of the footbag through the leg opening, as opposed to the "flying" body usually associated with the dexterity in symposium moves. Slur is the perfect word to describe the phenomena, because in music, when you just go from note to note without any distinct seperation, it is called slurring. For us, it should probably more accurately be called "slur-pogo set". Are you hip to the "Loco" concept? Tuan, I really thought you already knew about this. It has been around since 1995 Funtastik Summer Classik. (not slur, but the pogo thinking). Lets discuss this again, now that you are online. Lets open this can of worms, and put them to sleep. See ya! Scott. Hope everything is going okay in the bay! (That has really got to be one of the stupidest statements I have made in a long time...) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Dec 5 00:29:58 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04954 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:28:35 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04950 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:28:34 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4947) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA04945 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:28:30 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA20721 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:28:58 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id TIP01834; Wed, 04 Dec 1996 19:11:24 EST To: tuanvu@erols.com@erols.com, freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:08:48 PST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo slur Message-ID: <19961204.190849.3982.0.dervish@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6-12 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >It has been generally agreed >upon, that in order to get the body add for symposium moves, that the >symposiumness of the move must be maintained until the closing >contact. I can't say I agree, Scott. Who says? I never heard of anything indicating something like that until you brought it up last time. >Are you hip to the "Loco" concept? I thought 'loco' meant 'pogo,' or symposium mirage set. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Dec 5 17:20:07 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA07257 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:19:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA07253 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:19:56 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7250) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA07248 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:19:55 GMT Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.70.137]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA24729 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:20:31 -0800 Received: from rac3.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.70.103]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.8.2/8.8.0) with ESMTP id MAA25777 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:20:28 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac3.wam.umd.edu (8.8.3/8.8.0) id MAA24830 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:20:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:20:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612051720.MAA24830@rac3.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] tuan's kick off Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey hey all freestylers, this weekend is the Kick Off Freestyle Jam for the Ninja. he'll be departing for permanent residence in the west soon, and this is The Weekend to kick with him in the East before he leaves. the plan is to kick at the University of MAryland saturday and Sunday. all interested kickers should come to my placeon either day, stay over if you wnat to stay for both. to my place: 95 to 495. 495 to New Hampshire avenue exit south ( towards takoma park ). second left on ADelphi Road, take Adelphi to third light, University Boulevard (rte 193) and make a right. from UNiversity Boulevard, make the first right ( near immediate ) onto Temple avenue, take temple til its end, make a left onto Chatham Road, and my place is the last house on the left, #3301. take trains to Union Station, and then take subway to College Park, and call me at pager (301)-406-5219 to be picked up. all people coming, please call my pager to let me know of your plans, or call my house in the evenings at 301-422-8738. thanks, hope to see as many as possible this weekend, adios- vince From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Dec 5 19:03:47 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA07662 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:03:36 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA07658 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:03:30 GMT Received: from rtroxel@ops.esu19.k12.ne.us () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7655) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA07653 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:03:16 GMT Received: from redgate.esu19.k12.ne.us (redgate.esu19.k12.ne.us [162.127.19.9]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA25138 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:03:53 -0800 Received: by redgate.esu19.k12.ne.us; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA21330; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:07:26 -0600 Received: by ops.esu19.k12.ne.us; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Aug96-0319PM) id AA29222; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:05:55 -0600 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:57:23 -0600 (CST) From: Ryan Troxel Subject: [freestyle] doubles To: Procrastinator the VIIIth Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <199612051720.MAA24830@rac3.wam.umd.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org There is no paradox in my question so this will more than likely be a short thread--but hopefully a thread none the less. What are some tips and/or helpful hints to hit the double around the worlds, double leg overs and double downs? I continue to practice but have not hit any yet--close but not yet:) Any suggestions would be very helpful for this player who is trying to move from the tilt to the guilt aspect of the game. These moves would definitely help me to link my other three and four add moves. RYE From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Dec 5 22:17:06 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA08339 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:17:05 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA08335 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:17:04 GMT Received: from genz@bechtel.colorado.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8332) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA08330 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:17:04 GMT Received: from birch.Colorado.EDU (birch.Colorado.EDU [128.138.228.201]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA25944 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:17:42 -0800 Received: from birch (genz@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by birch.Colorado.EDU (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA07378; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:17:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <32A749DE.446B9B3D@bechtel.Colorado.edu> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 15:17:02 -0700 From: Genz Daryl S X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ryan Troxel CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] doubles References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ryan Troxel wrote: > > There is no paradox in my question so this will more than likely be a > short thread--but hopefully a thread none the less. > > What are some tips and/or helpful hints to hit the double around the > worlds, double leg overs and double downs? I continue to practice but > have not hit any yet--close but not yet:) Any suggestions would be very > helpful for this player who is trying to move from the tilt to the guilt > aspect of the game. These moves would definitely help me to link my > other three and four add moves. > > RYE Here's some general principles that can really apply to any move. I try to keep them in mind when skooling new and old tricks. 1. Don't FORCE anything. Speed and accuracy will come when your muscles are relaxed. When you tense up, you are only fighting yourself. 2. In general, set high (don't overdo it though, I know this one's touchy - if it feels right, it is right). The higher you set, the more time you have to complete the move - especially iportant with blurry/miraging/pogo sets to have the bag still traveing UP after the first dex is complete. 3. Like Kenny says, "Stay over the bag!" Always try to keep your balance, not only front to back, but also left to right - you center of gravity needs to be over the bag, or you're going to be off balance and have a much more difficult time completing the trick. 4. Try to meld each component of the trick together. This is especially improtant with the more difficult tricks. For example, with double around the world, you want to set and begin the first dexterity ALL IN ONE MOTION, not set THEN circle. This is a tip Rippin gave me when I was trying to hit paradon swirl, I kept trying to do a paradon then swirl, and he says "Just do it all at once", needless to say I nailed it on the next attempt. ;-> Hope that helps. Daryl From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Dec 5 22:17:09 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA08328 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:16:47 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA08324 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:16:47 GMT Received: from genz@bechtel.colorado.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8321) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA08319 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:16:46 GMT Received: from birch.Colorado.EDU (birch.Colorado.EDU [128.138.228.201]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA25941 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:17:21 -0800 Received: from birch (genz@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by birch.Colorado.EDU (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA07389 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:17:19 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <32A749ED.15FB7483@bechtel.Colorado.edu> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 15:17:17 -0700 From: Genz Daryl S X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Various News/Records/etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Everyone! It's been a while since I've posted anything, so let me just apologize right now for the bulk of the things I'm about to post and my late respones. I was supposed to be defending my thesis today, but I had it postponed until next year (;->) and it's almost done, so I've got some free time again! FOOTBAG ON TV!!!! Since I didn't see any posts about it, I am assuming no one else (or at least very few others) saw it, but on Sunday November 24 (two weeks ago) my friend called me and said "hey, I just saw someone playing footbag on TV", so I turned it to our local Channel 9 and sure enough I saw Sam Conlon and Tim Kelly (Stickman) kicking! The program was called P.E. T.V. (or something like that) and the focus of that particular show was "foot coordination." They also showed poeple doing Western Dancing for foot coordination - diong some line dance or something, but I just don't see how it even comes close ... Anyway, the segment I saw (and recorded) was about 5 minutes long - not bad considering how much time we've gotten in the past. The host of the show (for the footbag section) seemed like a complete loser - he would just BOOT the bag as hard as he could when it came to him, appearantly trying to impress the audience (didn't work for me though ;->). Sam explained, as only she could, how to do the basic kicks. Other than that I was quite dissapointed with the footage that they choose to show: it would mostly show 4 or 5 contacts (almost all leg-overs and butterflies) from 6 different camera angles (which made it very difficult to follow, (even for an experienced viewer)) then they'd show the host boot the footbag sky high. The best trick they showed Tim hitting (that I saw) was an eggbeater (once again from a weird angle - above his head), and a few others that were impossible to follow because they shot the tricks from on the ground and all you could see were his legs - not the bag. It basically looked to me like the editors had a field day, but they had no idea what they were showing. Overall though, I was very happy to see something footbag related on TV, yea! HEALTH UPDATE: RIPPIN As some of you may know, Rippin severly injured his knee at (and I'm sure to some extent, before) the World Championships. He hasn't really been able to shred (kick yes, shred no) since then. And, on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving he had surgery. Luckily the results showed (as it was basically an exploritory surgery, though the doctor also did some scraping and removal of "debris") that he still has about 70% of his miniscus cartilage. I say luckily, because it was feared that he may of had to have a second surgery to reconstruct his knee, but appearantly a second surgery will not be necessary. So, even though he won't be giong to the Chirstmas Jam, he's still on the road to recovery, and off crutches, though it will probably be a while before he'll be back to 100%. NEW UNOFFICIAL (WORLD) RECORDS (?) Last Saturday I hit 16 double around the worlds. Last night I hit butterfly, paradox torque, paradox torque, paradox troque, osis. I believe that's a new record. Also, last night I hit (not a record, but it was for me): Symp Infinity, Symp Infinity, Ripwalk, Pogo Stomping Butterfly, Ripwalk, Pogo Stomping Butterfly, Blur, Paradon, Blur, Paradon, Paradox Whirl, Paradox Whirl, Torque, Paradox Whirl (repeat, oh well), osis. Fourteen 4's with one repeat... Looking forward to the Christmas Jam! Genzu From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Dec 5 22:17:17 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA08362 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:17:17 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA08358 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:17:16 GMT Received: from genz@bechtel.colorado.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8355) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA08353 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:17:16 GMT Received: from birch.Colorado.EDU (birch.Colorado.EDU [128.138.228.201]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA25948 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:17:48 -0800 Received: from birch (genz@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by birch.Colorado.EDU (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA07394 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:17:45 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <32A74A09.59E2B600@bechtel.Colorado.edu> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 15:17:45 -0700 From: Genz Daryl S X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] wierd rake move References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello everyone I know this thread is a wee bit old, but I never really had a chance to voice my opinoin, so here it goes... > > On Sun, 17 Nov 1996 freefloe@continet.com wrote: > > > Daryl wrote the following regarding a move (not important which) > > > > > (even though technically, it's a guilt - > > >but,... you probably wouldn't > > >get too much flack for the guilt > > > > No offense to Daryl or any individual BAP member, however, I am personally > > getting tired of this apparent "attitude" that moves involving guilt (or > > tilt for that matter) are not worthy and the seemingly implied attitude that > > players who cannot hit these big moves are somewhat lame or might get > > "flack." It seems against the spirit of footbag as a sport where diversity > > in styles have generally been valued. First of all let me say that (as Steve had correctly inferred), I was entirely joking when I wrote the above. By no means do I mean to imply that people who can't "hit these big moves are somewhat lame". The wole reasoning behind this whole guilt/tilt issue, IMHO, is that it's lame when people who CAN hit the big moves start guilting/tilting. Can you imagine seeing Kenny, Rippin, and Pete standing in a circle where each one of them does 50 toe stalls and then passes to the next person. Who wants to see that? Not me. > > > > As the sport continues to grow it will be more and more difficult to > > maintain the inclusive atmosphere amongst players within the sport and good > > sportspersonship in general. The way top players present themselves and > > information now will have a big impact on the future of our sport. > > > > There are so many very cool 2 add moves that look great in combos though if > > the emphasis becomes solely to link only 3 add moves or 4 add moves these > > moves become lost and unappreciated. I also think it pushes new players to > > learn difficult tricks without having a foundation of basic kicks and/or > > variety of tricks. I won't argue that there aren't 2 add moves that aren't cool. Take pendulum for example, yes it's still a cool move even though it's two adds. So just put a spin before it, and now it's even better. ;-> I don't think any BAPer is going to care if a move is hit that's truly unique, even if it's only one add. As far as "pushing new players to learn difficult tricks without having a foundation of basic kicks and/or variety of tricks" I give you my friend Ben (the one who came up with the moves description list). He went no guilt within a year, and he has an *incredible* variety of tricks, and comes up with more every day, it seems like (in fact he just e-mailed me today with a whole new class of moves). > > > > I do not have a problem at all with BAPs philosophy of pushing the limits of > > what can be done with a footbag. This has most definitely advanced the > > sport in many ways and should be recognized. And individually all members > > of BAP are very good people, most long time friends of mine, though this > > dynamic is starting to remind me of the fraternity syndrome where > > individually people are cool though as a group they are exclusive and arrogant. I honestly don't believe anyone in the BAP is trying to come off as exclusive or arrogant. And if that's the way that it appears then I believe we need to do something about it, though at this point I don't know exactly what. The whole tilting/guilting issue is not ment to make others feel inadequate or lower. It just helps us to push our own limits. It is by no means a requirement for others, BUT we will SUGGEST to people when it looks like the lower add moves are holding them back to move to the next level. > > > > Sorry for the editorial...ready for the return comments...fire away... > > > > peace, > > becca I hope that I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth, but this is pretty much how I see it. Peace, Daryl From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Dec 5 22:17:33 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA08379 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:17:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA08375 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:17:32 GMT Received: from genz@bechtel.colorado.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8372) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA08370 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:17:32 GMT Received: from birch.Colorado.EDU (birch.Colorado.EDU [128.138.228.201]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA25958 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:18:11 -0800 Received: from birch (genz@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by birch.Colorado.EDU (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA07383; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:17:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <32A749E6.794BDF32@bechtel.Colorado.edu> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 15:17:10 -0700 From: Genz Daryl S X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Josh Penney CC: "tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo slur References: <19961204.190849.3982.0.dervish@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Josh Penney wrote: > > >It has been generally agreed > >upon, that in order to get the body add for symposium moves, that the > >symposiumness of the move must be maintained until the closing > >contact. > > I can't say I agree, Scott. Who says? I never heard of anything > indicating something like that until you brought it up last time. > > >Are you hip to the "Loco" concept? > > I thought 'loco' meant 'pogo,' or symposium mirage set. > > JP I never knew there was any great consensus on that issue either. I still think it needs some discussion, maybe a good topic for late night X-mas Jam discussions.... Genzu From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Dec 5 23:10:33 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA08634 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 23:10:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA08630 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 23:10:32 GMT Received: from derrick@www.lanit.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8627) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA08625 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 23:10:31 GMT Received: from www.lanit.com (router-7.tranquility.net [206.156.230.107]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA26144 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:11:08 -0800 Received: by www.lanit.com with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.0.837.3) id <01BBE2D0.02AB5B40@www.lanit.com>; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:16:10 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Derrick G. Fogle" To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] BAP Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:16:08 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Oh no, Derrick's gonna open his mouth about BAP! I appreciated Darryl's comments about the issue. Sometimes I think I'm the only male (there's quite a few women) with some ability but not the desire to be in BAP. The focus on difficulty shure beats the heck out of the focus on drops that was so prevelant a few years ago. The 'no drops' mantra really stifled creativity for a couple of years, and I think BAP was partly an explosive shattering of those bonds. Freestyle is all about jamming to the music to me. Rather than focusing on the difficulty of each move, I focus on the difficulty of integrating all levels of moves - different looks and feels of moves - into some ethereal feeling of interpreting, or dancing to the music with the footbag. Zero, 1, and 2 add moves are all part of that game. Kenny once paid a great compliment to me by saying that I was one of the only people he knew that could do tilts and guilts in a string without making them look "the." That's really because they aren't "the's" to me; they are as important to what I do as paradons and paradox torques. Most of the up and coming kickers that discuss moves in this forum desire to be in BAP, and probably enjoy an occasional ribbing from a BAP member since that means that the BAPtists are paying attention to them. But it can still come off the wrong way to those who don't share the BAPtist vision. I don't like the pressure I feel to conform to BAPtist ideology, so I generally avoid kicking in BAP circles. I've started my own PROTESTant religion, the great church of Music & Movement. Now about that paradox add... :) Derrick Fogle Systems Analyst LANIT Consulting 573-446-1187 derrick@www.lanit.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Dec 5 23:58:06 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA08787 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 23:58:01 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA08783 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 23:58:00 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8780) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA08778 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 23:58:00 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA26331 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:58:39 -0800 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3/SAS.03) id SAA13601; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:58:29 -0500 (EST) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Message-Id: <199612052358.SAA13601@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Various News/Records/etc. To: genz@bechtel.Colorado.EDU (Genz Daryl S) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:58:28 -0500 (EST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <32A749ED.15FB7483@bechtel.Colorado.edu> from "Genz Daryl S" at Dec 5, 96 03:17:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Symp Infinity, Symp Infinity, Ripwalk, Pogo Stomping > Butterfly, Ripwalk, Pogo Stomping Butterfly, Blur, > Paradon, Blur, Paradon, Paradox Whirl, Paradox Whirl, > Torque, Paradox Whirl (repeat, oh well), osis. So you think that symposium butterfly gets four adds? This goes contrary to the fact that miraging symposium butterfly (Toe dada) gets only 4 adds. I am confused now. I thought that symposium butterfly did not exist. Help? ALex From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Dec 6 00:10:04 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA08882 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 00:10:04 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA08878 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 00:10:03 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8875) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA08873 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 00:10:03 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA26392 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:10:40 -0800 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3/SAS.03) id TAA17286; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:10:32 -0500 (EST) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Message-Id: <199612060010.TAA17286@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] BAP To: derrick@www.lanit.com (Derrick G. Fogle) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:10:31 -0500 (EST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: from "Derrick G. Fogle" at Dec 5, 96 05:16:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > the only male (there's quite a few women) with some ability but not the > desire to be in BAP. Well, ever since I've started kicking I've been shown BAP videos and told: "these are the best". What do you expect? I think that striving to become a heinous shredder is what it's all about. It has nothing to do with BAP. It has to do with the tricks that members of BAP hit. When I see Mighty and Noah kick I am just as impressed be their juggles as anyone else in the world. They blow my mind. Who gives a shit if they guilt, or what club they are in? Now, your point is that freestyle should be about music, rythme and flowiness. You see these as venues of expression, whether the moves are one or two adds. For me it's the same, but I like to express myself by attempting big combos. It's always about the flow, some people just approach it differently. I hope this makes sense. To recap: You express yourself by doing moves coordinated to music, regardless of add count. I express the same feelings, but prefer another method, that of attempting big combos. Next week's exam week. Can't wait. Laters, Alex From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Dec 6 00:26:07 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA08960 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 00:26:06 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA08956 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 00:26:06 GMT Received: from "tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8953) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA08951 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 00:26:05 GMT Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [205.252.116.102]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA26492 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:26:46 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as31s39.erols.com [207.172.118.207]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA14418; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:24:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612060024.TAA14418@smtp2.erols.com> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 19:29:55 -0500 From: tuanvu <"tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com> Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Genz Daryl S CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo slur References: <19961204.190849.3982.0.dervish@juno.com> <32A749E6.794BDF32@bechtel.Colorado.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I never knew there was any great consensus on that issue > either. I still think it needs some discussion, maybe a > good topic for late night X-mas Jam discussions.... Why not discuss it now since not everyone can make it to Michigan? Tuan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Dec 6 00:56:12 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA09095 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 00:55:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA09091 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 00:55:56 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9088) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA09086 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 00:55:55 GMT Received: from oxywhite.interaccess.com (oxywhite.interaccess.com [198.80.0.100]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA26629 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:56:35 -0800 Received: from [207.70.66.111] (d111.cloud.interaccess.com [207.70.66.111]) by oxywhite.interaccess.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA23599; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:56:26 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:00:16 -0500 To: Procrastinator the VIIIth , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: [freestyle] Re: 1995 funtastik pogo discussion Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Vince and Freestylers! >just wanted to help clarify something a little. >back when we were arguing the pogo concept, when i was arguing tuans ideas >out on the internet because he wasn't on, you said your ideas were >discussed and widely accepted at the 1995 funtastiks, and i disagreed, and >was confused. >so i talked to the bap members of that tournament, and i found, >surprisingly, that while everyone remembered talking with you about the ideas, >not all of them agreed. >i figured there was a misunderstanding between you and some of them, >and i had wanted to tell you so before. >i hope i did, and if i didn;t, i am sorry. And I am sorry for going around all this time, speaking thoughts that are not widely agreed upon. I had myself believing that this was a settled issue, and for that I apologize. >all of them said tuans pogo does not deserve symposium add. >oh- to be more specific, i did not talk to all the midwest freestylers- >i figured most of them agreed with you, and that is fine. i do feel i >understand >your ideas well. but i don't agree withthe idea that "symposium" is only >applicable to an entire move. >for the reasons that tuan explained, or will be explaining. I can't wait. This topic will be easier to put to sleep than the (currently in epic status) paradox debate. And I am glad you are lurking around back there. >so all bapsters agreed tuans pogo was not worth two adds. >i can understand this by reasoning of slur, >they agreed that tuans moves could be done in a manner >that would deserve two adds for pogo, but that no one does them that way. >everyone slurs pogo. Except, maybe Tim Kelly. >you know he has spare time on blur like moves? >he hit a triple dext two weekends ago. >variation on atom smasher. Oh, the sickness... See ya! Scott. Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Dec 6 03:03:15 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA09390 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 03:02:54 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA09386 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 03:02:53 GMT From: mstrong@ix.netcom.com Received: from mstrong@ix.netcom.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9383) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA09381 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 03:02:38 GMT Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA27137 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:03:17 -0800 Received: from smtp.netcruiser (dal-tx4-47.ix.netcom.com [207.94.121.111]) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA14755 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:03:04 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:03:04 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-Id: <199612521350541@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Various News/Records/etc. X-Mailer: NETCOMplete v3.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On 12/05/96 18:58:28 you wrote: > >> Symp Infinity, Symp Infinity, Ripwalk, Pogo Stomping >> Butterfly, Ripwalk, Pogo Stomping Butterfly, Blur, >> Paradon, Blur, Paradon, Paradox Whirl, Paradox Whirl, >> Torque, Paradox Whirl (repeat, oh well), osis. > >So you think that symposium butterfly gets four adds? This goes >contrary to the fact that miraging symposium butterfly (Toe dada) gets >only 4 adds. > >I am confused now. I thought that symposium butterfly did not exist. > >Help? > >ALex > > > I too am confused by some of the terminology. Here is how I understand it. I can understand the symosium butterfly getting four adds if it is set from the same foot as the final clipper (isn't this a symposium whirl?), but I thought that an infinity was a clipper set to opposite side butterfly (i.e. that the dexterity had to be done with the setting foot). If the miraging symposium butterfly is set from the same foot as the final clipper, then I think the symposium should be counted. Actually, I think this move would be 6 adds since the mirage ( inside out dexterity) would be paradox. The 5 add version would be a symposium pixie butterfly. Most of this is for verification, so please tell me I have any of this wrong. later, Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Dec 6 14:49:10 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA00305 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:48:58 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA00301 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:48:57 GMT Received: from ratcliff@advtel.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (298) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA00296 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:48:57 GMT Received: from aopen.advtel.net (ns1.eatel.net [207.101.8.253]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA27973 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:43:36 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (max2-03.eatel.net [207.101.8.52]) by aopen.advtel.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA29632 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 00:50:46 -0600 Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 00:50:46 -0600 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961206004126.0be72f76@mail.advtel.net> X-Sender: ratcliff@mail.advtel.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Wes Ratcliff Subject: [freestyle] Hackman Hacks Again!! Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Due to busy signals on my x-ISP. The Hackman Page was taken down. Now I have a new server, and the Hackman Page is now up and running! So warm up your browsers, and check it out. Hackman's Page now includes: Freestyle How-to's for beginners (1-2 Add, and an occasional 3-Add) A new move ever couple weeks Some articles on how to fill your bag etc. And just some other cool stuff The Address - http://aopen.advtel.net/~ratcliff/ -Wes Ratcliff P.S. Feel free to send me questions/comments E-Mail:ratcliff@advtel.net From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Dec 6 16:00:26 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00462 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:00:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00458 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:00:10 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (455) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00453 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:00:10 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA28199 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 23:54:49 -0800 Received: from [203.29.161.174] (port936-Auck.ihug.co.nz [203.29.161.174]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA13553 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 23:48:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199612060024.TAA14418@smtp2.erols.com> References: <19961204.190849.3982.0.dervish@juno.com> <32A749E6.794BDF32@bechtel.Colorado.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:56:51 +1300 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo slur Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>> No. Pogo Reverse Mirage (Pogo-style Blizzard) get 4 adds. This is because >>> the "symposiumness" of the move ends prior to the closing contact. So it >>> doesn't matter if you slur the set or not. You only get that "symposium" >>> add on moves that maintain the "symposiumness" of the move all the way to >>> the final contact. Scott, please, I have been debating this each time you bring it up, but nobody has ever told convinced me of it. Similarly, we've never reached consensus on this issue; idunno why you think we have. Also, "Slur" and "Loco" are your own terms, Scott, and they're not currently used by anyone but you. Listen, I'm in total agreement that we need to be very clear about what constitutes a Pogo (i.e., a "symposium-mirage set") and I totally agree that most people *call* it Pogo when really it's just a flick-set without their support leg really jumping over the bag. This is a very important distinction only in assigning add categories to these moves. I really do wish we'd all agree on some terminology with respect to these differences. It annoys me that I have to tell people, "okay, yes, that's what we currently call Pogo Paradox Mirage, but, honestly, it's only worth 4 adds, not 5, because there's no symposium." But that is *not* the same subject (in my mind, anwyay) as "maintaining the symposiumness throughout". I do not understand and never have understood what you mean by this. I think part of your idea is that it *must* be symposium if the whole move is symposium (i.e., if the next thing after the pogo set is symposium) but I still don't get how it works. To me, Kenny's idea behind "Pogo" was a symposium-mirage from clipper, directly into another move without contacting the bag. Whether or not you put your initial setting foot on the ground *after* the symposium dexterity is your business. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Dec 6 19:25:34 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA00863 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 19:25:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA00859 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 19:25:33 GMT Received: from "tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (856) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA00854 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 19:25:32 GMT Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [205.252.116.102]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA29492 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 03:20:13 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as31s39.erols.com [207.172.118.207]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA14418; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:24:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612060024.TAA14418@smtp2.erols.com> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 19:29:55 -0500 From: tuanvu <"tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com> Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Genz Daryl S CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo slur References: <19961204.190849.3982.0.dervish@juno.com> <32A749E6.794BDF32@bechtel.Colorado.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I never knew there was any great consensus on that issue > either. I still think it needs some discussion, maybe a > good topic for late night X-mas Jam discussions.... Why not discuss it now since not everyone can make it to Michigan? Tuan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Dec 7 01:15:14 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA01758 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 01:15:07 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA01754 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 01:15:06 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1751) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA01749 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 01:15:05 GMT Received: from oxywhite.interaccess.com (oxywhite.interaccess.com [198.80.0.100]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA30648 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 09:09:49 -0800 Received: from [207.70.67.52] (d52.cloud2.interaccess.com [207.70.67.52]) by oxywhite.interaccess.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA07477; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:09:41 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:13:33 -0500 To: tuanvu <"tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com>, freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo slur Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Tuan! Re: symposiums in pogo's >Why not discuss it now since not everyone can make it to Michigan? I'm game. Now that I am certain that what I had believed to be consensus is not the case, I would love to talk about this in this forum. Remember, I am not opposed to giving the add... heck, it would make about 10 of my fours into fives. I'll take it if it is a freebie (free adds, what the heck). So why don't you fire off your argument for the symposium (body add) add as it relates to the Pogo. (and get things started). You first... See ya! Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Dec 7 05:14:00 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA03051 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 05:13:50 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA03047 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 05:13:48 GMT Received: from humungis@kode.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3044) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA03042 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 05:13:48 GMT Received: from bsd1.kode.net (bsd1.kode.net [206.42.219.3]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA31899 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:08:33 -0800 Received: from kodenet.kode.net (ppp-37.kode.net [206.42.219.56]) by bsd1.kode.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA16487 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:17:27 -0800 Message-ID: <32A88A47.355D@Kode.net> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 16:04:07 -0500 From: Paul Munger X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Various News/Records/etc. References: <199612521350541@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org mstrong@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > On 12/05/96 18:58:28 you wrote: > > > >> Symp Infinity, Symp Infinity, Ripwalk, Pogo Stomping > >> Butterfly, Ripwalk, Pogo Stomping Butterfly, Blur, > >> Paradon, Blur, Paradon, Paradox Whirl, Paradox Whirl, > >> Torque, Paradox Whirl (repeat, oh well), osis. > > > >So you think that symposium butterfly gets four adds? This goes > >contrary to the fact that miraging symposium butterfly (Toe dada) gets > >only 4 adds. > > > >I am confused now. I thought that symposium butterfly did not exist. > > > >Help? > > > >ALex > > > > > > > > I too am confused by some of the terminology. Here is how I understand it. > > I can understand the symosium butterfly getting four adds if it is set from the same foot as the > final clipper (isn't this a symposium whirl?), but I thought that an infinity was a clipper set > to opposite side butterfly (i.e. that the dexterity had to be done with the setting foot). > > If the miraging symposium butterfly is set from the same foot as the final clipper, then I think > the symposium should be counted. Actually, I think this move would be 6 adds since the mirage ( > inside out dexterity) would be paradox. The 5 add version would be a symposium pixie butterfly. > > Most of this is for verification, so please tell me I have any of this wrong. > > later, Matt Done in it's true form, sypmosium butterfly is worth 4 adds. It would be in the same catagory as symposium paradox mirage(4adds) and symposium paradox whirl(5adds). Also symposium dada is worth 5 adds. it has always been (and still is) viewed that way by myself. Even though this is one of the cheapest 5s out. furthermore symposium paradox dada is worth 6 adds. This has GOT to be the cheapest 6 adder out there fursure. I mean to say that if a move is indeed a *true* symposium then the extra add should be there to count. As for the pogo issue heres my 2 cents. The only problem that i have with this is the fact that when done by most people it appears that it is "fraudulent" meaning that the set is coming out between the legs(defracted) as opposed to from a clipper set where it should. I have NO problem giving a *true* pogo set 2 adds. But when it is "slurred"(defracted) then I beleve that it should only get 1 add. That means that when I see Tuan(or anyone else for that matter) do ALOT of his amazing moves that involve *pogo* that start with this "slurred" or defracted set I feel that it should only get 1 add, that of the defraction not pogo. I'm sorry but for those of us that don't have knees from Rubbermade, this set is almost impossible. NOT to peanalize those of you who do, but just look at it for what it is, a defracted set Not a symposium set (pogo) before another dex. This is a very sticky subject. To clear matters i therfore feel that in order to get the pogo add your foot MUST leave the ground. This seemes the most FAIR way to go about it. wat do ya think?? comments? FLAMES?? respectfully submitted. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Dec 7 07:22:02 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA03698 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 07:20:46 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA03694 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 07:20:39 GMT Received: from genz@bechtel.colorado.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3691) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA03689 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 07:20:34 GMT Received: from birch.Colorado.EDU (birch.Colorado.EDU [128.138.228.201]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA32362 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 15:15:18 -0800 Received: from birch (genz@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by birch.Colorado.EDU (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA07661; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:15:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <32A8A8F5.52BFA1D7@bechtel.Colorado.edu> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 16:15:01 -0700 From: Genz Daryl S X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mstrong@ix.netcom.com CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Various News/Records/etc. References: <199612521350541@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org mstrong@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > On 12/05/96 18:58:28 you wrote: > > > >> Symp Infinity, Symp Infinity, Ripwalk, Pogo Stomping > >> Butterfly, Ripwalk, Pogo Stomping Butterfly, Blur, > >> Paradon, Blur, Paradon, Paradox Whirl, Paradox Whirl, > >> Torque, Paradox Whirl (repeat, oh well), osis. > > > >So you think that symposium butterfly gets four adds? This goes > >contrary to the fact that miraging symposium butterfly (Toe dada) gets > >only 4 adds. > > > >I am confused now. I thought that symposium butterfly did not exist. Unfortunatly, it does, it just isn't considered worthy. > > > >Help? > > > >ALex > > > > > > > > I too am confused by some of the terminology. Here is how I understand it. > > I can understand the symosium butterfly getting four adds if it is set from the same foot as the > final clipper (isn't this a symposium whirl?), but I thought that an infinity was a clipper set > to opposite side butterfly (i.e. that the dexterity had to be done with the setting foot). Yes, infinity is (for example) right foot clipper set to left foot clipper catch butterfly. Symposium infinity doesn't make sense intuitively as standard symposiums go, but read the following and hopefully it will make sense. 1. Set from right foot clipper 2. Immediatly *plant* your right foot (after this point, your left will not touch the ground). 3. Now jump off your righ foot over the bag in a standard infinity motion, 4. Then catch with your left clipper. (It's just like a regular infinity, except you plant your dexterity leg prior to the dex) > > If the miraging symposium butterfly is set from the same foot as the final clipper, then I think > the symposium should be counted. Actually, I think this move would be 6 adds since the mirage ( > inside out dexterity) would be paradox. The 5 add version would be a symposium pixie butterfly. > There's definitely no paradox - by anyone's definition - for a pogo same side butterfly. Yes you are right though, that technically a pogo same side butterfly is worth five (unworthy) adds. However, with the version I was doing, I plant both feet simultaneously after the mirage (hence losing the symposium) then do the butterfly, so it's only 4 adds. I just think the move looks cooler when you plant, even though you could get an extra add by not doing so. This is a perfect example of why I think our whole pogo concept needs revamping - the same exact move gets different adds depending completely on what style it is done (plant or no plant) when both moves are exactly the same difficulty. > Most of this is for verification, so please tell me I have any of this wrong. > > later, Matt Comments? Daryl From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Dec 7 08:33:11 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA04089 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:33:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA04085 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:33:10 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4082) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA04080 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:33:10 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA32659 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:27:49 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id TYV00394; Fri, 06 Dec 1996 19:26:52 EST To: genz@bechtel.Colorado.EDU Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 19:24:15 PST Subject: [freestyle] Various News - Bust into Pogo Slurs Message-ID: <19961206.192437.4462.0.dervish@juno.com> References: <199612521350541@ix.netcom.com> <32A8A8F5.52BFA1D7@bechtel.colorado.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4-17,20-22,24-26,28-32,34,36-38,40,43,45,49,51,53-56 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>>I am confused now. I thought that symposium butterfly did not exist. >UnfortunatEly, it does, it just isn't considered worthy. ^ Worthy? Now we're in trouble. I'll take unworthy adds any day of the week and twice on sunday. >Symposium infinity doesn't make sense intuitively as standard symposiums >go, but read the following and hopefully it will make sense. >(It's just like a regular infinity, except you plant your dexterity leg > prior to the dex) As we say here in the east...aaahNO. (this sorta sounds like a sneeze) >There's definitely no paradox - by anyone's definition - for a pogo >same side butterfly. Yes you >are right though, that technically a pogo same side butterfly is worth >five (unworthy) adds. How so? because you're changing direction? I think not. Between this and your definition for sym. butterfly I need a realistic explanation for 'unworthy adds'. >However, with the version I was doing, I plant both feet >simultaneously after the mirage (hence losing the symposium) then do the butterfly, >so it's only 4 adds. I just think the move looks >cooler when you plant, even though you could get an extra add by not >doing so. This is a perfect example of why I think our whole pogo concept needs >revamping - the same exact move >gets different adds depending completely on what style it is done >(plant or no plant) when both moves are exactly the same difficulty. >Comments? > Well, I like to double plant after the set as well, moreso than keeping that leg in the air. But not because it looks cooler, because it gives a validity to the motion. It states plainly; UH! (or pah-dam!) I am setting this move and there's no way around it. I think pogo should be the same way. Pogo doesn't really need serious revamping, but the set *should* be symposium, imho. and I don't mean the kind of pogo I pull, which looks good to me; I think the dexterity leg should come flying over the bag and be so obviously pogo there can be no doubt. Anything less should be like a sort of "the", and applicable to a 1-add penalty. When I first learned ripwalk, I heard the term 'jaywalk'; and I thought it was doing the move behind the leg/butt line, but as I got better at it I learned that the bag must break the plane of the thigh, or it's considered "j." Or is it "the"? But in the direction of Scott's argument, whatever happens afterward is irrelevant. As an aside, if I pull drifter or torque either way, there's no differentiation. What gives? Josh From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Dec 7 09:55:00 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA04411 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 09:54:55 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA04407 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 09:54:53 GMT Received: from humungis@kode.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4404) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA04402 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 09:54:52 GMT Received: from bsd1.kode.net (bsd1.kode.net [206.42.219.3]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA00184 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:49:39 -0800 Received: from kodenet.kode.net (ppp-10.kode.net [206.42.219.29]) by bsd1.kode.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA05482 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:58:34 -0800 Message-ID: <32A8CC29.1566@Kode.net> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 20:45:13 -0500 From: Paul Munger X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] pogo vs slur Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello. I have been doing some thinking (oh no lookout now)hehe. I think that there is a very simple way to differentiate a true pogo from a slur set. A true pogo set needs to meet 2 requirements. 1st is that the bag HAS to lose contact with the foot before the symposium dex. 2nd is that the symposium foot Must leave dear old mother earth for it to be considered symposium. after all thats the way it was meant to be from the start. right? This simple way of defining pogo will differentiate it from a *slur* or defracting set. A defracting set is ONLY worthy of 1 add period. If you do a simple defraction it is worth one add. If you do a defraction *slur* set it is still only one add and in reality if you do this set it SHOULD be considered a seperate move from the following dex simply cuz its a defraction move and then what ever the next dex is. I guess to put it more simply, if I do a simple defraction, the bag is on my inside delay, If I then do a whirl. I should get the 3 adds for the whirl. The moves are seperate. 1add to 3 adds. NOT 4 or five adds If its slurred. Get it? I hope so. cuz I do. comments? Flames? Agree? Disaggree? Respectfully submitted Hu-Mungis From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Dec 7 14:00:18 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA05222 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 14:00:12 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA05218 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 14:00:10 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5215) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA05213 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 14:00:09 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA00907 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 21:54:58 -0800 Received: from [203.29.161.174] (port830-Auck.ihug.co.nz [203.29.161.68]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA23917; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 21:48:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <32A88A47.355D@Kode.net> References: <199612521350541@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 18:54:43 +1300 To: Paul Munger From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Various News/Records/etc. Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:04 AM +1300 12/7/96, Paul Munger wrote: >As for the pogo issue heres my 2 cents. The only problem that i have >with this is the fact that when done by most people it appears that it >is "fraudulent" meaning that the set is coming out between the >legs(defracted) as opposed to from a clipper set where it should. I have >NO problem giving a *true* pogo set 2 adds. But when it is >"slurred"(defracted) then I beleve that it should only get 1 add. That >means that when I see Tuan(or anyone else for that matter) do ALOT of >his amazing moves that involve *pogo* that start with this "slurred" or >defracted set I feel that it should only get 1 add, that of the >defraction not pogo. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Dec 8 05:00:55 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA07818 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 05:00:41 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA07814 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 05:00:39 GMT Received: from "tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7811) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA07809 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 05:00:38 GMT Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [205.252.116.102]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA04388; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 12:55:31 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as50s83.erols.com [207.172.111.83]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA17534; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:03:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612062203.RAA17534@smtp2.erols.com> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 17:08:52 -0500 From: tuanvu <"tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com> Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Davidson CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo slur References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Remember, I am not opposed to giving the add... heck, it would make about 10 of my fours into fives. I'll take it if it is a freebie (free adds, what the heck). To begin with, symposium adds aren't "freebies." Keep in mind that this forum is on the concept of pogo and not how I or anyone else might do them since I have heard that there are some people who might not accentuate the symposium part of the set. From the impression that I got from Kenny, when pogo was born, it was a symposium mirage set from a cross-body delay to any number of tricks. I never heard anything about keeping the integrity of the syposiumness throughout the entire trick. Once the symposium part of the set is completed, you should get two adds for it. If you did a symposium atom smasher (symposium reverse mirage to mirage) there's a front-side symposium which should get two adds then you plant your set foot after the symposium to do the reverse mirage making it 4 adds. Just because the set foot is planted after a symposium, you should still get the symposium add because the symposium reverse mirage dexterity has been completed. You shouldn't have to maintain the symposium integrity throughout the entire trick. As far as "loco" and "slur," who came up with those names? I never heard of a "slur" until a week ago and I never heard anyone use the "loco" term on a trick before. Are these names for pogo variations that everyone reached a consensus on? > You first... Who's next? Tuan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Dec 8 07:11:39 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA08296 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 07:11:34 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA08292 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 07:11:32 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8289) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA08287 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 07:11:31 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA04793 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 15:06:27 -0800 Received: (from marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id PAA11542; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 15:06:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 15:06:07 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey freestylers, What's the exact date for the Heart of Footbag Freestyle Tournament? Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Dec 10 06:41:46 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA18056 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 06:41:24 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA18052 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 06:41:22 GMT Received: from genz@bechtel.colorado.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18049) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA18047 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 06:41:22 GMT Received: from birch.Colorado.EDU (birch.Colorado.EDU [128.138.228.201]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA15952 for ; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 14:36:38 -0800 Received: from birch (genz@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by birch.Colorado.EDU (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA08430; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 15:36:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <32AC9466.794BDF32@bechtel.Colorado.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 15:36:22 -0700 From: Genz Daryl S X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Josh Penney CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Various News - Bust into Pogo Slurs References: <199612521350541@ix.netcom.com> <32A8A8F5.52BFA1D7@bechtel.colorado.edu> <19961206.192437.4462.0.dervish@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Josh Penney wrote: > >There's definitely no paradox - by anyone's definition - for a pogo > >same side butterfly. Yes you > >are right though, that technically a pogo same side butterfly is worth > >five (unworthy) adds. > > How so? because you're changing direction? I think not. Between this and > your definition for sym. butterfly I need a realistic explanation for > 'unworthy adds'. Ok. I only think there's one "unworthy" add involved in the pogo (same-side) butterfly. I guess I havn't really made it clear what I was referring to before, so ... There are two moves. 1. Pogo same side butterfly (technically symp). 5 adds. 2. Miraging, stomping, same-side butterfly (same as above w/a simultaneous plant). 4 adds. These two moves (IMO) are essentially the SAME. WOA!! I just thought of something. Number one is actually worth 6 adds!!! It's a symposium mirage start = pogo = two adds + a symposium butterfly finish = 4 adds which makes 6 adds (and 2 unworthy ones ;->). Now the reason I believe the two adds (since #1 above is technically a double symposium) are "unworthy" is because it just doesn't make sense that whether or not you plant your non-dex (catch) foot should make a 2 ADD difference when both moves are technically identical! It's not as if the stomping version is easier - you've already got one leg on the ground anyway. Does anyone understand what I am trying to say, and does anyone else see a problem with this - 6 ADDS!? > > > > Well, I like to double plant after the set as well, moreso than keeping > that leg in the air. > But not because it looks cooler, because it gives a validity to the > motion. It states plainly; > UH! (or pah-dam!) I am setting this move and there's no way around it. > I think pogo should be the same way. > Pogo doesn't really need serious revamping, but the set *should* be > symposium, imho. > and I don't mean the kind of pogo I pull, which looks good to me; I think > the dexterity leg should come flying over the bag and be so obviously > pogo there can be no doubt. > Anything less should be like a sort of "the", and applicable to a 1-add > penalty. > When I first learned ripwalk, I heard the term 'jaywalk'; and I thought > it was doing the move behind the leg/butt line, but as I got better at > it I learned that the bag must break the plane of the thigh, or it's > considered "j." Or is it "the"? > As far as I know, a Jay-walk and a "the" ripwalk are the same thing, it's just kind of a cool and different way to say it. > But in the direction of Scott's argument, whatever happens afterward > is irrelevant. > As an aside, if I pull drifter or torque either way, there's no > differentiation. What gives? Huh? > > Josh From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Dec 11 04:33:40 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA23233 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 04:32:07 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA23229 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 04:32:06 GMT Received: from derrick@www.lanit.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (23226) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA23224 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 04:32:05 GMT Received: from www.lanit.com (router-7.tranquility.net [206.156.230.107]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22497 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 12:27:25 -0800 Received: by www.lanit.com with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.0.837.3) id <01BBE6A7.01D565F0@www.lanit.com>; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 14:32:44 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Derrick G. Fogle" To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Transit Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 14:32:40 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, everyone, I'm changing jobs again. It's gonna be offline for a few days, but my 'derrick@footbag.org' email address should always be forwarded to my most current email address. I'll let everyone know when I'm back online and ready for the next round of Paradox / Symposium debates... Derrick Fogle Systems Analyst LANIT Consulting 573-446-1187 derrick@www.lanit.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Dec 11 12:03:29 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA25198 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 12:02:09 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA25183 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 12:02:05 GMT Received: from "tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (25180) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA25178; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 12:02:04 GMT Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [205.252.116.102]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA02503; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 19:57:04 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as48s32.erols.com [207.96.19.176]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA27867; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 22:57:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612110357.WAA27867@smtp2.erols.com> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:02:15 -0500 From: tuanvu <"tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com> Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org CC: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] The East Must Jam Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Announcement to all footbaggers, The first annual East Must Jam will be taking place on Dec. 29 (although there will be kicking that whole weekend) in the Washington D.C. area. This is a great opportunity for anyone who can't make it out to the X-Mas Jam but still wants to shread it up. All players are welcome! Eric Wulff and Carol Wedermeyer will be in attendance along with Steve Goldberg from San Fransico, Josh Penny from New York City, and many other mystery guests! The location will either be in the Juggling Capitol in Washington D.C., the University of Maryland in College Park, MD, or some indoor place in Fairfax, VA. All three places are within 25-45 minutes of each other. The dates will be Dec. 28 and 29. We are trying to make the 29th the bigger day. It will start (both days) in the afternoon till are legs get cramped up. If you would like more information contact: Tu Vu at tuanvu@erols.com (703)503-7231 or Vince Bradley pager (301)406-5219 Thanks for reading, Tu Vu a.k.a. 2HUGE From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Dec 11 15:57:26 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA26085 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 15:56:21 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA26081 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 15:56:20 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (26078) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA26076 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 15:56:19 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA03563 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:51:19 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id CAV21460; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 02:50:30 EST To: genz@bechtel.Colorado.EDU Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 02:27:58 PST Subject: [freestyle] Bust into Pogo Slurs Message-ID: <19961211.024849.3486.2.dervish@juno.com> References: <199612521350541@ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4-5,7,9-14,19,21,24-26,28-30,34-39,43,48-51 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >> I need a realistic explanation for 'unworthy adds'. > >Ok. I only think there's one "unworthy" add involved in the pogo >(same-side) butterfly. I guess I havn't really made it clear what I was referring >to before, so ... >Now the reason I believe the two adds are "unworthy" is because it just doesn't >make sense that whether or not you plant your non-dex (catch) foot should >make a 2 ADD difference when both moves are technically identical! >It's not as if the stomping version is easier - you've already got >one leg on the ground anyway. Does anyone understand what >I am trying to say, and does anyone else see a problem with this - >6 ADDS!? I really don't see the second add. I don't mean I can't see where you're coming from, I just think the half circle dex is pretty wimpy, as dexterity goes - miraging or pogo or butterfly; so I don't see it applying more than once, which *could* actually happen, considering the strain on your balance and support ankle when there isn't a plant. Okay, So I'm gonna suggest something completely out of the ordinary. symposium shall not be unless it falls within the condition such that the outside-to-in dexterity motion the dexterity must travel 360 degrees around the bag. Flame away if you like, I'm entitled to an opinion. >> But in the direction of Scott's argument, whatever happens afterward >> is irrelevant. Whoops! Sorry. Guess I hadn't thought about it before it slipped between my fingers and out to the whole world. Here I'm agreeing with Tuan that the movements after a symposium set are independent of it (ie. a plant after a pogo shouldn't forefit the add.) >> As an aside, if I pull drifter or torque either way, there's no >> differentiation. What gives? >Huh? Well, I can pull both moves either all at once - just like Kenny does 'em on ToTT (original recipie) or with a "blur like" set (I know the word 'blurry' implies a paradox, so I'm trying to keep my nose clean) or, for lack of a better term, extra crispy. I guess it's a difference which defies eveything but observation, but for me, both are easier extra crispy. Do you think that's gonna affect my cholesterol level? I can talk all I want, but I *have* to go the quick and easy path - give in to the dark side of the force - you don't know the power - It's the only way I'm gonna get any better at this. Josh From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Dec 12 18:40:56 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA32453 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 18:39:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA32449 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 18:39:51 GMT Received: from danzilla@mail.utexas.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (32446) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA32444 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 18:39:51 GMT Received: from smtp.utexas.edu (smtp.utexas.edu [128.83.126.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA00834 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 02:35:04 -0800 Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 0); 11 Dec 1996 23:28:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.utexas.edu) (128.83.126.1) by smtp.utexas.edu with SMTP; 11 Dec 1996 23:28:22 -0000 Received: from UT.cc.utexas.edu (slip-108-47.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.177.143]) by mail.utexas.edu with SMTP id RAA11966 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:28:20 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:28:20 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612112328.RAA11966@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: danzilla@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org From: danzilla@mail.utexas.edu (Dan Sharber) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Bust into Pogo Slurs Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > Okay, So I'm gonna suggest something completely out of the >>ordinary. >>symposium shall not be unless it falls within the condition such that the >>outside-to-in dexterity motion the dexterity must travel 360 degrees >>around the bag. >>Flame away if you like, I'm entitled to an opinion. I don't know many people that even do a complete 360 degree dex on a symp mirage. Are you saying then that that move wouldn't be symposium? But down below... > Whoops! Sorry. Guess I hadn't thought about it before it slipped >>between my fingers and out to the whole world. Here I'm agreeing with >>Tuan that the movements after a symposium set are independent of it (ie. >>a plant after a pogo shouldn't forefit the add.) [the second add, the symp one, right???] ...It seems like you are saying that a pogo gets 2 adds (including a symp add) regardless of anything that follows. A pogo set does not do a 360 degree dex, though. Why the symp add? And if you do give that add and believe that anything following the pogo stands on its own then Daryl would be right in saying that a pogo same side symp butterfly is 6 adds, however "unworthy." BTW, I graduated form UT here in Austin and will be off line for awhile. I am moving to Houston, though, and hoped to get hooked up once I get there. What online services do you people down there use? Heather? Later, Dan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Dec 12 23:02:04 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA00548 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 23:00:48 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA00544 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 23:00:45 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (541) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA00539 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 23:00:44 GMT Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA01718 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 06:55:54 -0800 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3/SAS.03) id JAA08008 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 09:55:48 -0500 (EST) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Message-Id: <199612121455.JAA08008@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Pogo To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 09:55:46 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi freestyle world. I am writing post Washington jam here, where we got to discuss a couple of issues, including pogo. On pogo: The use of the word slur is absolutely not fair. Who came up with this term? In Washington Tuan conceded it was alright with him if pogo only got 1 add, and I think that everyone else in the world thinks that too. But to call it a SLUR? To even suggest that name is an insult. It doesn't matter what the dictionary definition is, it sounds like a piece of shit. The fact is, trying to find a new term is probablly not a worthwhile cause. Everyone knows that TUAN=POGO and that's that. On Loco: It seems like a solid concept that should be kept around. The idea of staying symposium throughout the move is a cool concept. Now you can do a move blurry, pixie, symposium, paradox, pogo and loco. I don't understand what all the fuss is about. ON TUANS SICKNESS: HE hit a few new moves and here they are: (correct me if I am wrong TUAN) DOUBLE LEANING MIRAGE: A box set mirage. Yes, a blurry spining mirage, you heard it right. Since he is the first to hit it, I think he re-named it a double leaning set. FUSION: (is this the new name?) Reverse miraging double over down. Right toe, left reverse mirage, double dex with the right, left clipper. THIS IS CUTTING EDGE! S & M SMASHER: Reverse Miraging Double Mirage. I'm not sure from what toe, but probably right toe, left reverse mirage, right double dex, left toe stall. Ok, that's about it. The weekend was sick, and we got to see TU hit TWO FLURRIES, and his first BLURRIEST. He also has finally managed to grow some facial hair. Laters, Alex p.s. Word is that Tuan is coming to Penn today. Watch for more posts about his edge destroying self later. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Dec 13 00:30:37 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA01058 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 00:29:27 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA01054 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 00:29:25 GMT Received: from "tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1051) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA01049 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 00:29:25 GMT Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [205.252.116.101]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA02225 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:24:39 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as1s55.erols.com [207.172.127.55]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA20388; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:24:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612121624.LAA20388@smtp1.erols.com> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:29:24 -0500 From: tuanvu <"tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com> Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alessandre S Naro CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo References: <199612121455.JAA08008@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > In Washington Tuan conceded it was alright with him if pogo only got 1 add, and I think that everyone else in the world thinks that too. Alex, I conceded to having whatever-the-name-is of the set I do to get one add. I still think that a pogo exists and deserves two adds regardless if I set it too fast to tell. The concept of pogo has seen many changes and interpretations throughout the past year or so. > The fact is, trying to find a new term is probablly not a worthwhile cause. If you call the way I set some tricks pogo, then the original concept of pogo (x-body to sym mirage set, 2 adds) needs a new term. It doesn't necessarily have to be "loco" (sym throughout the entire trick). > HE hit a few new moves and here they are: (correct me if I am wrong TUAN) > > DOUBLE LEANING MIRAGE: > > A box set mirage. Yes, a blurry spining mirage, you heard it right. > Since he is the first to hit it, I think he re-named it a double > leaning set. > LEANING GYRO MIRAGE: A "bock" set mirage. A blurry in-spinning mirage. A DOUBLE leaning mirage would be very difficult to hit and could be compared to a double leaning jowler!! > FUSION: (is this the new name?) Yes. > Reverse miraging double over down. Right toe, left reverse mirage, > double dex with the right, left clipper. THIS IS CUTTING EDGE! Tuan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Dec 13 01:05:57 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA01251 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:04:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA01246 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:04:49 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1243) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA01241 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:04:47 GMT Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA02414 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 09:00:03 -0800 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3/SAS.03) id LAA15985; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:58:25 -0500 (EST) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Message-Id: <199612121658.LAA15985@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo To: "tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com (tuanvu) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:58:22 -0500 (EST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <199612121624.LAA20388@smtp1.erols.com> from "tuanvu" at Dec 12, 96 11:29:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Tuan and all, > I conceded to having whatever-the-name-is of the set I do to get one > add. Right, that's what I meant. > The concept of pogo has seen many changes > and interpretations throughout the past year or so. Exactly. I think pogo used to be symposium from clipper. Now I think it has changed to whatever Tuan does. When people try pogo, they try to imitate Tuan, they do not try to do symposium from mirage. > If you call the way I set some tricks pogo, then the original concept of > pogo (x-body to sym mirage set, 2 adds) needs a new term. Agreed. > It doesn't necessarily have to be "loco". I don't think that's the idea. Loco is simply a term that desribes a different way of doing a move. It's not meant to be a new name for true pogo. What do people think? New name for pogo, or not? Alex From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Dec 13 01:15:29 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA01325 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:14:24 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA01321 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:14:23 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1318) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA01316 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:14:22 GMT Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.70.135]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA02494 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 09:10:04 -0800 Received: from rac7.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac7.wam.umd.edu [128.8.70.107]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.8.4/8.8.0) with ESMTP id MAA20046 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:09:56 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac7.wam.umd.edu (8.8.3/8.8.0) id MAA20651 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:09:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:09:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612121709.MAA20651@rac7.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] corrections to dc jam posting Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org tuan was suggesting the name double leaning gyro for the bock set mirage he hit. a la da pigs. but he wasn't renaming the concept, at least not before pete says whether or not he likes the new name for his original concept. i think. oh, and if anyone is interested in my two cents, i agree with alex on his explanation of the pogo conceptualizations wholehearteedly, provided it is also conceded that it is possible to do a two add pogo set, just very very hard, and not done yet. of course this may require a new name, for a move wherein the bag is completely off the foot before the first dexterity. a concept that may be as unique from current pogo as it is from loco. l8r- vince From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Dec 13 02:05:46 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA01527 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:04:36 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA01523 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:04:33 GMT Received: from humungis@kode.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1520) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA01518 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:04:32 GMT Received: from bsd1.kode.net (bsd1.kode.net [206.42.219.3]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02707 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 09:59:47 -0800 Received: from kodenet.kode.net (ppp-56.kode.net [206.42.219.75]) by bsd1.kode.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA21568 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:08:46 -0800 Message-ID: <32B046FE.57D1@Kode.net> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:55:10 -0500 From: Paul Munger X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo References: <199612121658.LAA15985@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Alessandre S Naro wrote: > > Hey Tuan and all, > > > I conceded to having whatever-the-name-is of the set I do to get one > > add. > > Right, that's what I meant. > > > The concept of pogo has seen many changes > > and interpretations throughout the past year or so. > > Exactly. I think pogo used to be symposium from clipper. Now I think > it has changed to whatever Tuan does. When people try pogo, they try to > imitate Tuan, they do not try to do symposium from mirage. > > > If you call the way I set some tricks pogo, then the original concept of > > pogo (x-body to sym mirage set, 2 adds) needs a new term. > > Agreed. > > > It doesn't necessarily have to be "loco". > > I don't think that's the idea. Loco is simply a term that desribes a > different way of doing a move. It's not meant to be a new name for true > pogo. > > What do people think? New name for pogo, or not? > > Alex Alex, I'm sorry that you or anyone else takes such offense at the term "slur". It is only meant in the same context as a move that is "the". I really don't see what the big deal is. As for a new name for pogo, I don't think that is necessary. If a pogo move is done correctly( i've had NO response from the criteria that I posted a week ago) then it's pogo. If it was done in the "defracting" style then it would be "slurred" or "the" (only worth 1 add). The word slur came from scott. I personally have no problem with it, but if tuan or anyone else does it makes NO diff. to me if we throw it out. As far as loco is concerned I have no comment. The concept for pogo has NOT changed as far as I can see. The definition has just been clarified. Comments. Flames. Just my opinion. Tuan those sound like quite HEIN moves!! Good job on pushing the cutting edge! Keep it up! Hu-Mungis From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Dec 13 03:10:40 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA01853 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 03:09:30 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA01849 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 03:09:28 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1846) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA01844 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 03:09:27 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA03110 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:05:15 -0800 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3/SAS.03) id OAA26299; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:05:11 -0500 (EST) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Message-Id: <199612121905.OAA26299@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo To: HuMungis@kode.net (Paul Munger) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:05:10 -0500 (EST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <32B046FE.57D1@Kode.net> from "Paul Munger" at Dec 12, 96 12:55:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Alex, I'm sorry that you or anyone else takes such offense at the term > "slur". It is only meant in the same context as a move that is "the". Right, that's what is bad about it. A "the" or "slur" carries a negative connotation. When someones "the's" a move, you don't get psyched, you say, "close, but you the'd it". With Tuan it's different. Call it blurry if you want, but IMHO calling it a slur is insulting. > I really don't see what the big deal is. As for a new name for pogo, I > don't think that is necessary. If a pogo move is done correctly( i've > had NO response from the criteria that I posted a week ago) then it's > pogo. True. > The word slur came from scott. I > personally have no problem with it, but if tuan or anyone else does it > makes NO diff. to me if we throw it out. Well, see if the above reason makes sense. I think enough people don't like the term so that it should not be used. > Tuan those sound like quite HEIN moves!! Good job on pushing the > cutting edge! Keep it up! You should see him hit them in front of you! Laters, Alex From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Dec 13 04:49:37 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA02471 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 04:48:32 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA02467 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 04:48:31 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2464) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA02462 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 04:48:31 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA03834 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:43:47 -0800 Received: from [203.29.161.3] (port817-Auck.ihug.co.nz [203.29.161.55]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA03560 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:05:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199612121624.LAA20388@smtp1.erols.com> References: <199612121455.JAA08008@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 09:12:28 +1300 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 5:29 AM +1300 12/13/96, tuanvu wrote: >If you call the way I set some tricks pogo, then the original concept >of pogo (x-body to sym mirage set, 2 adds) needs a new term. It doesn't >necessarily have to be "loco" (sym throughout the entire trick). Yes, I agree wholeheartedly! This is what I tried to say the last time we had this argument on the list. The problem is with language -- we call both types of set "Pogo" (and Scott's injected yet a third term, "Loco" to confuse the hell out of an already confusing issue). I yelled at Scott last year to stop with the Loco stuff until we had figured out the Pogo stuff. His result was "Slur" to mean the one-add version of Pogo. Honestly, I don't see the offense in "Slur" as a term, however. I could live with: POGO = symposium mirage set (+2 adds) SLURRY = pull-through "diffraction-like" set (+1 add) Whatever Loco means, let that be defined in terms of these two. And please note, for the record, that Diffraction is not the right name for the slurry-pogo set (no offense intended). A real diffraction is a reverse wrap, where the other leg is not involved in the motion at all. It's planted the whole time and the bag never goes near it. The rationale for the name "Slurry" is that it: (a) rhymes with "blurry" and looks sort of similar to it, except (b) there's no plant of the setting leg, and (c) the bag is carried in the motion of a "slur" diacritical mark (whoah, big SAT word, sorry...) "Slurry" does *not* imply "the"! If proponents of the term would stop suggesting it does, perhaps the name would be acceptable! And I wholeheartedly DISAGREE with changing "Pogo" to mean the 1-add move many people do. The idea is that the 2-add version looks like someone doing the Pogo Stick, which was Kenny's name and he meant it that way (since as we all know he was a Pogo Stick champion in his youth!). Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Dec 14 01:21:37 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA07863 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:21:09 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA07859 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:21:07 GMT Received: from copyset@interaccess.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7856) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA07854 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:21:07 GMT Received: from psycfrnd.interaccess.com (psycfrnd.interaccess.com [198.80.0.26]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA10278 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 09:16:32 -0800 Received: from 204.148.86.139 (d139.nnb.interaccess.com [204.148.86.139]) by psycfrnd.interaccess.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA15760; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 11:16:21 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <32B1824D.660@interaccess.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 11:20:47 -0500 From: Scott Davidson Reply-To: enlightener@footbag.org Organization: The CopySet Shop X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Steven L. Goldberg" CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo References: <199612121455.JAA08008@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Steve, Tuan, Alex and Freestylers! I have to apologize for not responding to this juicy and well thought out thread, but my eudora pro just stopped working, so I am in Netscape mail and without a working address book, and just plain busy. So I will catch up to the 12 or so messages I want to respond to asap., thanks. Steven L. Goldberg wrote: > > At 5:29 AM +1300 12/13/96, tuanvu wrote: > >If you call the way I set some tricks pogo, then the original concept > >of pogo (x-body to sym mirage set, 2 adds) needs a new term. It doesn't > >necessarily have to be "loco" (sym throughout the entire trick). > > Yes, I agree wholeheartedly! This is what I tried to say the last time we > had this argument on the list. The problem is with language -- we call > both types of set "Pogo" (and Scott's injected yet a third term, "Loco" to > confuse the hell out of an already confusing issue). I yelled at Scott > last year to stop with the Loco stuff until we had figured out the Pogo > stuff. His result was "Slur" to mean the one-add version of Pogo. From where I sit, it is not confusing at all. But if I can be confused by the "proposed nomenclature i.e. L Clip > in-out > this > that > and the other thing>" then you can be confused about Loco. It was just meant to fill a gap and, as all other words do, they encapsulate a concept into a single word, so I didn't have to type out my concept over and over and over and over and over and over again. > Honestly, I don't see the offense in "Slur" as a term, however. I could > live with: > > POGO = symposium mirage set (+2 adds) > SLURRY = pull-through "diffraction-like" set (+1 add) I like the sound of Slurry. And sorry to get Alex in a huff... A Slur in music is not derogatory at all, and I never thought of it in terms of "racial slur" or other potential uses of the word. In music, a slur is merely a technique for moving through many notes without a clear definition between the notes. (which, I believe is *perfect* for this concept). I too, love watching Tuan do his pogo stuff, truly cutting edge. Although the only safe way to watch Tuan is on video, as the slo-mo lets me to actually *conceive* what he is doing. > Whatever Loco means, let that be defined in terms of these two. Loco is still different, and has a different use as well. > The rationale for the name "Slurry" is that it: >> (a) rhymes with "blurry" and looks sort of similar to it, except > (b) there's no plant of the setting leg, and > (c) the bag is carried in the motion of a "slur" diacritical mark > (whoah, big SAT word, sorry...) > > "Slurry" does *not* imply "the"! If proponents of the term would stop > suggesting it does, perhaps the name would be acceptable! I agree. Gotta go. Enlightener Scott. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Dec 15 10:41:42 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id KAA14889 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 10:41:37 GMT Message-Id: <199612151041.KAA14889@eniac.yak.net.taz> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:48:09 From: kmoldenhau@gnn.com (Jay (Man) Moldenhauer) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] X-mas jam spaghetti dinner Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is an open invite to all who are in town for the x-mas jam. As some of you are aware, there is going to be an evening jam on FRI the 27th at around 6:00 pm. Afterwards the dinner will be at my house. We wil offer meatless and meat varieties of spaghetti sauce and also homemade garlic bread made from sourdough bread featuring olive oil and garlic mixed in the blender. The way to my house from the Ramada Inn is to take Pierson Rd west about 2 miles and go right on Elms Rd (Speedway Gas station is on the corner). Head down to a 4-way blinking light and go straight. About a 1/2 mile down is Carpenter Rd (blinking yellow) and make a left and head west about a 1/3 of a mile. We are on the right hand side. The address is 7168 W Carpenter Rd. House is a 1 1/2 story white with white lights in the windows (something about x-mas???) and a white x-mas looking tree on the porch. This is not a tree, but lights strung up resembling a tree. Pull in and park in the driveway as far in as you can go. Look forward to seeing you all and have a Merry Christmas everyone from the Moldenhauers (My wife Sue, Jeni, Justin, Carissa and Nina, plus myself Jay). See ya, Jay p.s. if any questions call 810-659-7539 in the evening and ask for Jay. Thank-you From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Dec 17 15:37:59 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA01262 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:36:14 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA01258 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:36:12 GMT Received: from dyun@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1255) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA01253 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:36:12 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA03588 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 07:36:35 -0800 Received: (from dyun@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3/SAS.03) id KAA02986 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:36:31 -0500 (EST) From: dyun@sas.upenn.edu (Dennis Yun) Message-Id: <199612171536.KAA02986@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Boston NYE Jam?! To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:36:30 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Phellow Phreestylers, I've been in touch with some Boston kickers for a session (pre- and perhaps during Phish shows) in Boston on or around New Years Eve. Anyone who'll be in the area, contact me and we'll discuss! Dennis Yun dyun@sas.upenn.edu From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Dec 17 23:42:43 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04029 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:42:41 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04025 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:42:40 GMT Received: from ratcliff@advtel.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4022) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04020 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:42:34 GMT Received: from aopen.advtel.net (ns1.eatel.net [207.101.8.253]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA06145 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:42:55 -0800 Received: from p166 (max2-61.eatel.net [207.101.8.110]) by aopen.advtel.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA09721 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:53:42 -0600 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961217234417.0066acc8@mail.advtel.net> X-Sender: ratcliff@mail.advtel.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:44:17 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Wes Ratcliff Subject: [freestyle] New Hackman!! Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, the new Hackman is out! So go there! --> http://aopen.advtel.net/~ratcliff/ From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Dec 24 20:08:04 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA00624 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 20:07:29 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA00620 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 20:07:24 GMT Received: from humungis@kode.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (617) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA00615 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 20:07:18 GMT Received: from bsd1.kode.net (bsd1.kode.net [206.42.219.3]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA16293 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:06:51 -0800 Received: from kodenet.kode.net (ppp-25.kode.net [206.42.219.44]) by bsd1.kode.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA14359 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 15:16:32 -0800 Message-ID: <32C0377B.1B7E@Kode.net> Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 15:05:15 -0500 From: Paul Munger X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Merry X-Mas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Just wanted to wish one and all on the list a Mery Christmas and a Happy New Year:) Hu-Mungis From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Dec 27 23:57:06 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA00673 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 23:56:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA00662 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 23:56:56 GMT Received: from brat@research.apple.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (659) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA00657; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 23:56:56 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA01180; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 15:56:57 -0800 Received: from [17.127.19.191] ([17.127.19.191]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA09329; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 15:50:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 18:59:32 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Steven L. Goldberg" Subject: [freestyle] East Must Jam -- Sunday, 12/29, 1pm Cc: footbag@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org DC area kickers: We're pretty much certain of the location and time of the "East Must Jam" freestyle day in Washington, DC this Sunday. Thanks to Tu Huge Vu, we have a spot at the Juggling Capitol. Here're the directions (from Tu): The Juggling Capitol is located at the Old Post Office Pavailion. It's about two blocks from the Mall in D.C. (near the museums). It's directly across the street from the Federal triangle Metro station. The number for the Juggling Capitol is 202-789-1799. Tu's phone number is 703-503-7231. We should be getting started in the afternoon about 1pm. Tu says we're going to "shred til we get shin splints." :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Dec 31 19:11:13 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA00521 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:11:13 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA00517 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:11:11 GMT Received: from kmoldenhau@gnn.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (514) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA00512 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:11:10 GMT Received: from mail-e2b.gnn.com (mail-e2b.gnn.com [204.148.102.170]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA24679 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 11:10:32 -0800 Received: from 17-88.client.gnn.com. (17-88.client.gnn.com [205.188.17.88]) by mail-e2b.gnn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/GNN-1.0.7) with SMTP id OAA23945 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 14:09:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612311909.OAA23945@mail-e2b.gnn.com> X-Mailer: GNNmessenger 1.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 14:57:42 From: kmoldenhau@gnn.com (Jay (Man) Moldenhauer) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Happy New Year Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Happy New Year to all the freestylers out there from Jay and the Moldenhauer family..!!!!!!!! Short update from the X-mas jam. There were people from colo,minn,il,oh,pn,nj,ny,nb, and of course mich. I know there was another state, but I can't think of it at the moment. Genz and the Enlightener were playing very strong. Thanks for coming in guys. And a thanks to the Vu brothers for their influence on Sunil, Ethan and Alex. Very fast toes guys. smooth it out and work both sides. Sean from NB was looking good. We raised 143$ for the American Heart Ass. GF Smoothie drove up from Milan (with Deanna) to play and was his usual strong self. And of course there was Joe from Missouri (the missing state) and he was playing pretty huge. Oh yes, Humungis was pulling out phat combos (as usual). More later. (Steve) Cosmo (K or C??) come up from Ohio, (and this after troubles with his knee) was looking good. The Chiseler was absent due to moving (I think). The spaghetti and garlic bread party was a success. The house was packed, but everyone ate watched video from the shred and 93 worlds jam footage. Guilting all over the place, but the seeds for todays play were very evident. Nuff 4 now. Jay From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Dec 31 20:10:56 1996 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA00729 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 20:10:55 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA00725 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 20:10:52 GMT Received: from "tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (722) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA00720 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 20:10:50 GMT Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [205.252.116.102]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA24984 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 12:10:14 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as49s13.erols.com [207.96.98.13]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA09779 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 15:10:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612312010.PAA09779@smtp2.erols.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 15:15:54 -0500 From: tuanvu <"tuanvu@erols.com"@erols.com> Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] The East sure did Jam! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all freestlyers! The East must Jam sure was a great success. Tons of phat shread occured on stage at the old post office pavaillion. Thanks to the people at Juggling Capitol that made this event possible. A little update: Eric Wulff was the man as he hit vortex to mobius or the other way around(either way it's still huge). Carol Wedemeyer busted out big add combos with the ease of a feather. Man, she's on her way to the top. Thanks to John Scinider (spell?) for coming out from colorado. He ripped open several big fours that served notice to the crowd. Mr. Josh Penny showed that big things come in little packages as he pulled some insane dino and blender combos. One guy that hasn't wasted his winter juggling (ha-ha) is Steve "I can bust out phat pardox torques when I like" Goldberg. Thanks to Vince for helping me run this and showing that not only Big Add Posse members can hit mobius. Thanks to Neil Payne for coming out and the rest of the D.C. crew. Next: Mr. Peter Irish makes a visit to Virginia Beach and maybe to the D.C. area. I'll keep you informed. Too Huge (Tu the "Van" Vu)