From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 1 02:12:15 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA02605 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 02:12:12 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA02601 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 02:12:11 GMT Received: from hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2598) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA02596 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 02:12:11 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu ([129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA31809; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:12:09 -0800 Received: from skull.cs.uidaho.edu (skull.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.108]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.1) with ESMTP id SAA27746; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:12:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by skull.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.0) with SMTP id SAA03449; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:12:07 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: skull.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:12:07 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand To: Scott Davidson cc: Josh Penney , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unusual surfaces? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Scott Davidson wrote: > Hi Josh and Everyone! > > >How many unusual surfaces can you think of? > >There's: > >2 calves, > >2 heels, > >2 tippy-toes, > >2 soles, > >2 shins, > >2 crooks behind the knee (I sorta wanna call this area the 'kneebow'). > > Many of the above can be done Cross body (except tippy-toes and shins), so > double it... from 8 you now have 16. Let's not forget about the "Ding-a-Ling Delay" as an unusual surface delay. It was named that by a couple of my friends here in Moscow, Idaho. Of course you have to be male to perform this move. ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 hootie AND phish blow From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 1 04:32:37 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA03194 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 04:32:19 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA03190 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 04:32:18 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3187) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA03185 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 04:32:18 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA32385 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 20:32:18 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id XrL01111; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:31:23 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:10:50 PST Subject: Re: [freestyle] move questions Message-ID: <19970228.232822.3326.0.dervish@juno.com> References: <199702282233.RAA83251@pilot05.cl.msu.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-7,10,12-13,18-20 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >paradox question: >this would probably be considered two seperate moves right? atw,wrap? Correct. >another question: >whats the difference between spinning and gyrating? The direction, based on the set. If I set with my left clipper foot, and spin away from it, and into another move, would be considered 'gyro'. there's no such thing as a 'gyrating toe stall.' But: Same set, spin all the way around to the right, is called, 'inspin' , because it's further than a whole turn. I can cite some examples : Left clipper, turn so the bag travels behind you, and bring that set leg outside in to hit a butterfly on the right clipper delay, that's gyro butterfly. Most moves that involve the first dexterity with the same leg that set the bag are gyro. The same set to a butterfly with the LEFT clipper would be spinning. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 1 04:32:38 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA03205 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 04:32:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA03201 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 04:32:32 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3198) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA03196 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 04:32:32 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA32387 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 20:32:32 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id XrO01111; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:31:23 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:26:35 PST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unusual surfaces? Message-ID: <19970228.232822.3326.3.dervish@juno.com> References: <000000123662940005637@mlerf.org> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,11-28 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>How many unusual surfaces can you think of? There's: >>2 calves, 2 heels, 2 tippy-toes, 2 soles, 2 shins, >>2 crooks behind the knee (I sorta wanna call this area the 'kneebow'). > >Many of the above can be done Cross body (except tippy-toes and >shins), so double it... from 8 you now have 16. Umm... 20? >>I feel we need a limit on the number of upper body moves you can do and >>still call them "unusual". I think it should be 1. The Comp Card judges > >Cool - something we might almost try to work up into a controversy! >Here's my take: There are 5 unique upper body "surfaces" - head, back, >chest, and each arm. You only get an Unusual add for each, but can >combine those contacts with other add elements for additional unique >moves (a neck catch [1 add] and a pixie set neck catch [2 adds] are >each unique moves). >And yes, that means all that eye-socket juggling and side of head and >top of head stuff gets one add for each contact, but only gets counted >as one unique move in the unusual surface category. > >So simple. Any questions? Agreed, even tho I will delay from shoulder to shoulder for hours! JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 1 18:09:52 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA04746 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:09:45 GMT Received: from hungchang_at_bldg2@ca.slr.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3116) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA03114 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 04:06:43 GMT From: HungChang_at_BLDG2@ca.slr.com Received: from relay1.smtp.psi.net (relay1.smtp.psi.net [38.8.14.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA32271 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 20:06:43 -0800 Received: from dns.slr.com by relay1.smtp.psi.net (8.8.3/SMI-5.4-PSI) id XAA00129; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:06:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ca.slr.com ([158.116.9.16]) by dns.slr.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA05695; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 20:06:55 -0800 Received: from ccMail by ca.slr.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA857188618; Fri, 28 Feb 97 18:02:51 PST Date: Fri, 28 Feb 97 18:02:51 PST Message-Id: <9701288571.AA857188618@ca.slr.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Upper body delays (was Unusual body surfaces?) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Scott Davidson wrote: >"Upper body delays are lame, and hence, any add counter with honor >will give you only one add....." > >"Footbag, not "Upper-body" Bag! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! You traditional CONSERVATIVE closed minded freestyler! :) Upper body delays are not lame. In a performance sport like freestyle, presentation is way more important than the scoring system (ie ice skating). Your MAIN audience (out in TV land) probably enjoys watching upper body moves or stalls more than a 5-add move. So why do you want to discourage a very enjoyable part of the routine? Take a look at the tradition "footbirdie" freestyle in China. Multiple body stalls! It's what the audiences like. Also, Steve Goldberg wrote: >Those are all body adds -- not delay. "Delay" only applies to feet. >This >is FOOTbag. :-) Illogical argument. Does that mean "Football" should only be played with your feet? Hung p.s. this reminds me of that female African ice skater who would do backflips in her routine. The crowd loved it, but the judges weren't too impress. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 1 18:09:57 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA04763 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:09:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA04759 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:09:55 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4756) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA04754 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:09:55 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA03378 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 10:09:55 -0800 Received: from [17.255.70.146] ([17.255.70.146]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA26537 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 10:02:09 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970228.232822.3326.0.dervish@juno.com> References: <199702282233.RAA83251@pilot05.cl.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 10:07:29 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] move questions Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:10 PM -0800 2/28/97, Josh Penney wrote: >>paradox question: >>this would probably be considered two seperate moves right? atw,wrap? > >Correct. It's not necessarily two different moves, though, depending on how you do it. If you really mean "wrap" in the sense of you stop after the first atw and then do the wrap motion, then yes, two moves. But if you actually catch the bag in a fluid motion that results in either a refraction or a butterfly, then you've hit either a paradox refraction (?) or a paradox DADA curve. (Moves are still paradox if the final delay is performed with the original setting foot in the cross-body position.) >>another question: >>whats the difference between spinning and gyrating? > >The direction, based on the set. I think there's just a little more to it than what Josh said.. "Spinning" and "In-Spinning" mean simply that you spin before doing a trick--if you spin away from the set it's a "spin" and if you spin into the set it's an "in-spin"). "Gyrating" means "spinning", but where there's a *dexterity* performed by the setting foot on the way around, i.e., as you're spinning, without planting your set foot, you spin on one leg, reach over the bag with your set foot, and *then* do something. (Viz. "mobius" = "gyrating torque" and "vortex" = "gyrating drifter".) This is especially hard compared to just spinning. And it is this dexterity that is deemed to be approximately congruous with the dexterity in paradox moves, thus ruling out paradox elements in gyrating moves. Idunno if that made any sense... I just woke up. :-) Then there're even more spinning concepts, but they seem to be in a state of flux (pun intended). For example, "Bock Set" (*not* "Box Set" as many people seem to believe) was originally something like a blurry-inspinning-dexterity (i.e., miraging-in-spin), but Tuan tells me that that's been renamed to be something else and now Bock Set means something else. So if anyone can clue the list in on this new nomenclature please do... :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 1 18:59:10 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA04896 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:59:09 GMT Received: from caseyr@phoenix.princeton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4824) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA04822 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:47:12 GMT Received: from lists.Princeton.EDU (lists.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.249]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA03542 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 10:47:13 -0800 Received: from ponyexpress.Princeton.EDU ([128.112.129.131]) by lists.Princeton.EDU with ESMTP id <370489.s3-1>; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 13:47:05 -0500 Received: from flagstaff.Princeton.EDU (flagstaff.Princeton.EDU [128.112.131.154]) by ponyexpress.Princeton.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA23282; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 13:46:51 -0500 Received: from localhost (caseyr@localhost) by flagstaff.Princeton.EDU (SMI-8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA23833; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 13:46:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: flagstaff.princeton.edu: caseyr owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 13:46:49 -0500 (EST) From: "Casey G. Rothschild" To: HungChang_at_BLDG2@ca.slr.com cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Upper body delays (was Unusual body surfaces?) In-Reply-To: <9701288571.AA857188618@ca.slr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'll chip in my two cents here: > Scott Davidson wrote: > > >"Upper body delays are lame, and hence, any add counter with honor > >will give you only one add....." > > > >"Footbag, not "Upper-body" Bag! > > > WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! You traditional CONSERVATIVE closed minded > freestyler! :) I have no problems at all with both of these views. There is no question that sweet upper-body moves and other 'old-school-type' low add moves are sweet and fun as can be. For those of us who have no interest in persuing a 'sport' such as footbag for anything more than the sheer beauty and enjoyment of it, these moves are great. For those who, beyond this interest, also find an interest in attepting to slap on a bunch of rules so that they can compete at this game, upper body stalls become less ideal. In making the sport competitive, certain (no offense) arbitrary rules need to be adopted. If this mean upper body stalls need to be downplayed in competition, that's fine by me. > Upper body delays are not lame. In a performance sport like > freestyle, presentation is way more important than the scoring system > (ie ice skating). Your MAIN audience (out in TV land) probably enjoys > watching upper body moves or stalls more than a 5-add move. So why do > you want to discourage a very enjoyable part of the routine? Take a > look at the tradition "footbirdie" freestyle in China. Multiple body > stalls! It's what the audiences like. First: Who says audiences are all that matter? Second: "footbirdie" is most certainly not "footbag" even if it is similar. > Also, Steve Goldberg wrote: > > >Those are all body adds -- not delay. "Delay" only applies to feet. > >This > >is FOOTbag. :-) > > Illogical argument. Does that mean "Football" should only be played > with your feet? I'd say the latter is the illogical argument. Just because football is misnamed does not mean footbag (as a competetive sport, not just as a hobby as it is for me) need also be misnamed - especially when you compare the logic of the two sports: the former is a bunch of large males butting heads and grunting, the latter quite possibly the most sublimely graceful sport in the world. I find it hard to even read about any comparison between the two... Casey From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 1 20:54:57 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05246 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 20:54:43 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05242 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 20:54:41 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5239) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA05237 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 20:54:40 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA04083 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:54:42 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07013 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:54:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:54:41 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] ducking paradox?? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! I was wondering if you get a paradox add for ducking moves? For example: if I did a ducking whirl, would it be paradox? Other ones would include ducking blender, ducking mirage (with the same foot you set with) etc. What do you guys think? Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 2 05:44:33 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA11652 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 05:44:30 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA11648 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 05:44:28 GMT Received: from kuchma@golden.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11645) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA11643 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 05:44:27 GMT Received: from golden.net ([199.166.210.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA06440 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 21:43:45 -0800 Received: from [207.6.168.151] (cisco3-151.golden.net [207.6.168.151]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA26498; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 00:42:43 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 00:58:37 -0500 To: Verhoef Anne , freestyle@footbag.org From: kuchma@golden.net (Mike Kuchma) Subject: [freestyle] Re: ducking paradox?? -- Elaborate Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:54 PM 3/1/97, Verhoef Anne wrote: >Hi Freestylers! > >I was wondering if you get a paradox add for ducking moves? Hi Adrian! Could you please elaborate on what exactly you mean by 'ducking'. If you mean as in one's head passing under the bag, I have a difficult time picturing a ducking whirl. Just curious. -- Kuch - - - - - "He's not well liked..." - Arthur Miller From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 2 08:16:48 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA12085 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 08:16:46 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA12081 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 08:16:44 GMT Received: from schneija@ucsu.colorado.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12078) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA12076 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 08:16:42 GMT Received: from ucsu.Colorado.EDU (ucsu.Colorado.EDU [128.138.129.83]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA06997 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 00:16:45 -0800 Received: (from schneija@localhost) by ucsu.Colorado.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.4/CNS-4.1p) id BAA18985 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:16:45 -0700 (MST) From: Freestyle Jedi (Shpater Dude) Message-Id: <199703020816.BAA18985@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> Subject: [freestyle] Ducking Paradox!! To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:16:44 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hello, on the subject of ducking paradox moves, i have never seen a ducking paradox whirl, though i don't see why shouldn't be paradox if it could be hit, and i don't see why someone with better skills than i couldn't hit one. many moves have two body adds, like paradox symposium mirage, and spinning butterflyer and paradox dragonfly, so i don't see any reason why a move couldn't count both a ducking and a paradox element. besides, my friend Ben Jobs, busts out wicked cool ducking paradox mirages, and there is nothing bad to be said about them. i wish i could do them. and i will one day. but now i've got to run, so catch y'all.. Shpater, Dudes Jonathan Schneider may the Force be with us From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 3 06:10:21 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA15291 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 06:10:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA15287 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 06:10:09 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (15284) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA15282 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 06:10:08 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA12907 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 22:10:10 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id BGT13386; Mon, 03 Mar 1997 01:09:27 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 23:21:20 PST Subject: [freestyle] UPENN JAM!!! Message-ID: <19970303.010632.3342.10.dervish@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,4,12,17-19 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well, the March 1st "In like a lion" freestyle jam at Upenn was awesome. There were at least 25 people in attendance, representing from: DC's allstars, St.Mary's Dragonflies, SanFrancisco, NYFA, and of course, UPenn. Saturday we had two squash courts filled with freestylers and an incredible time was had by all. Toby and Dave were in the neighborhood, and took time out of their busy touring schedule for creative athletics to show us how it's gotta be done. In fact, they're doing a show tomorrow morning; lots of accolades and love for those guys. Showing his genetic ability, Tu Vu styled like nobody else, hitting combos I can't recall - they were really that fast. Eric Wulff was his usual unbelievable self, and I'm sure glad someone taped that juggle. Carol Wedemeyer ripped so hard with drifter, ripwalk, torque, to blur I think it rattled my fillings loose. As for me, I finally crossed the line from no barrages to barrages on both sides, I got to see what the mighty scepter is for, and I got to eat the greasiest food on the planet for a day and a half. Thanks to The UPenn Footbag club for hosting the weekend of add-crunchiness from hell. Let's do this again real soon. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 3 18:32:38 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA17096 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:32:35 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA17092 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:32:24 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (17089) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA17087 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:32:13 GMT Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA16602 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:32:14 -0800 Received: from [207.70.66.134] (d134.cloud.interaccess.com [207.70.66.134]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id MAA15051; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:31:43 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:40:01 -0500 To: HungChang_at_BLDG2@ca.slr.com From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Upper body delays (was Unusual body surfaces?) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Hung! > >"Upper body delays are lame, and hence, any add counter with honor > >will give you only one add....." > > > >"Footbag, not "Upper-body" Bag! > > > WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! You traditional CONSERVATIVE closed minded > freestyler! :) > > Upper body delays are not lame. In a performance sport like > freestyle, presentation is way more important than the scoring system > (ie ice skating). Your MAIN audience (out in TV land) probably enjoys > watching upper body moves or stalls more than a 5-add move. So why do > you want to discourage a very enjoyable part of the routine? Take a > look at the tradition "footbirdie" freestyle in China. Multiple body > stalls! It's what the audiences like. I suppose, you need to know my personal situation, in order to understand where I am coming from. I challenge myself, and others around me to be their best. To do their hardest stuff. For me, that holds true for my performances. I am striving for a guiltless ratio in my performances, so that should tell you why I will not do simple moves like those upper body delays (except in extreme diress). Sure "audiences" like upper bodies, but I don't get personal satisfaction from the audience, I get satisfaction from personal achievement. > Also, Steve Goldberg wrote: > >Those are all body adds -- not delay. "Delay" only applies to feet. > >This is FOOTbag. :-) > > Illogical argument. Does that mean "Football" should only be played > with your feet? Well, um, YES! Football is played with your feet. There is a big tournament that you may have heard of, they get over 36 BILLION viewers worldwide, and it is called the "World Cup"... maybe you have heard of it? Um, urgh, unless you are an american, then they play some bastardized throwing game and they call it "Football". But that is another rant. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 3 18:41:52 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA17165 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:41:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA17161 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:41:51 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (17158) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA17156 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:41:51 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA16667 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:41:51 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA18362 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:41:43 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Upper body delays (was Unusual body surfaces?) Message-Id: <000000124082940259355@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 12:42:35 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.7.3 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, Mar 3, 1997, 5:40:01 PM GMT Scott Davidson wrote: >performances. I am striving for a guiltless ratio in my performances, so >that should tell you why I will not do simple moves like those upper body Triple spin to a neck catch, Scott. Try that! Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 3 20:30:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA17738 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 20:30:10 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA17734 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 20:30:08 GMT Received: from tuanvu@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (17731) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA17729 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 20:30:08 GMT Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [205.252.116.101]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA17269 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:30:09 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as6s02.erols.com [207.172.2.146]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA04611 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 15:30:17 -0500 Message-ID: <331B36C1.525C@erols.com> Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 15:38:25 -0500 From: Tu Vu Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] UPENN JAMMED!!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Last Weekend's session at UPENN was one of the best Jams I have ever attended in my life!! There were some many stylers from the East Coast and California (i.e. Toby and Dave) that made this session one for the record books. There was none of that "your not good enough to kick in this cirlce deal". Everyone rotated around so everyone got to kick with everyone (except I never got to kick with Carol, who I saw from the corner of my eye bust out torque>blur like she had been doing that combo for years). Toby and Dave shred at such amazing levels. Toby had some LONG and SMOOTH guiltless combos with some of the most amazing ducks I have ever seen. Dave busted out some mean Gyro combos and I hope he will hit Davie Jones's Locker (Inspinning butterfly). Wulff was pulling out devasting combos showing that he has such great skills to throw in over half a dozen ducking butterfy in a row to a blurriest any time he felt like it. His unique style marveled both sqaush ball courts. Josh Penny has shown HUGE improvement with plenty of four combos and stepping butterfly on both sides just to name a few. Stu Roll traveled across the East Coast and back and still manged to kick on both days. He's been bustin' leg-beater>blur, blurry whirl, and many a Paradox Torque. Jim McCoppin was stomping the floor away with some HUGE stomping double-legovers. Everyone improved by the time the weekend was over. Everyone shreded there hearts out especially the UPENN boys! I hope to see everyone at the 15th Annual East Coast Championships April 26-27. 2 Huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 4 08:32:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA20222 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:32:09 GMT Received: from hungchang_at_bldg2@ca.slr.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18960) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA18958 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 02:29:31 GMT From: HungChang_at_BLDG2@ca.slr.com Received: from relay2.smtp.psi.net (relay2.smtp.psi.net [38.8.188.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA19653 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:29:31 -0800 Received: from dns.slr.com by relay2.smtp.psi.net (8.8.3/SMI-5.4-PSI) id VAA09965; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 21:29:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ca.slr.com ([158.116.9.16]) by dns.slr.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA15595; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:30:10 -0800 Received: from ccMail by ca.slr.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA857442089; Mon, 03 Mar 97 18:28:01 PST Date: Mon, 03 Mar 97 18:28:01 PST Message-Id: <9702038574.AA857442089@ca.slr.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Upper body delays (was Unusual body surfaces?) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I wrote: > Illogical argument. Does that mean "Football" should only be played > with your feet? Scott wrote: >Well, um, YES! Football is played with your feet. There is a big >tournament that you may have heard of, they get over 36 BILLION viewers >worldwide, and it is called the "World Cup"... maybe you have heard of it? >Um, urgh, unless you are an american, then they play some bastardized >throwing game and they call it "Football". Thanks Scott! You example is even better. "Futbol" aka Soccer is played with your feet..... as well as your head, chest, knees, etc. My point is that it does not make any sense to base the rules of your game on the "name" of the game. Hung From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 4 15:28:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA21298 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:27:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA21294 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:27:58 GMT Received: from stoler@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (21291) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA21289 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:27:57 GMT Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA23827 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 07:28:00 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA14904 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 09:27:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from lax-ca20-02.ix.netcom.com(204.31.253.66) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma014888; Tue Mar 4 09:27:36 1997 Received: by WHATEVER with Microsoft Mail id <01BC286D.A6AAD0D0@WHATEVER>; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 07:28:27 -0800 Message-ID: <01BC286D.A6AAD0D0@WHATEVER> From: Michael Stoler To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] How was freestyle judged before the Add system was introduced? Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 07:28:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org When was the Add system introduced? How was freestyle judged before that? -Rex From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 4 16:18:20 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA21471 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 16:18:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA21467 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 16:18:06 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (21464) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA21462 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 16:18:04 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA24014 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:18:07 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA07084 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 10:18:05 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] How was freestyle judged before the Add system was introduced? Message-Id: <000000124612940337134@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 10:18:54 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.7.3 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org (Freestyle Listserve) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Mar 4, 1997, 3:28:25 PM GMT Michael Stoler wrote: >When was the Add system introduced? I think it was '86 or '87 - my memory is a bit fuzzy on that. I started competing in '84, and the add system didn't exist then. Over the next couple of years, Kenny, Reed Gray, and a few others developed a system for measuring trick difficulty. I'm pretty sure it was formally introduced into the Worlds judging system by '87. It was introduced before I took my year off to go to Hawaii - when was that?!? Gawsh, time flies when you're having fun, eh? >How was freestyle judged before that? Before the addition of adds and add ratios to competition judging, it was either a simple ranking system, or maybe a "scale of 1 to 10" system, with judge's scores being averaged. Just to be a turd and point this out, freestyle competition isn't and has never been judged solely on the add system. The popular freestyle culture just makes it seem that way. Now the Worlds judging system consists of: 1/6 add count and add ratio 1/6 drops 1/3 composition (which measures the number of unique moves based on add components) 1/3 presentation (subjectively determined scores in various categories) Even with add counting, the composition was still subjectively scored until around '90 or '91 - again, my memory is fuzzy on this. It is amazing which details stick and which don't. I remember a specific incident of scoring composition the "old way" and being chided for that by Reed, but now I can't remember what year it was. Of course, with the popularization of BAP, adds and add ratios is just about all anybody talks about these days. Since freestyle is, well, freestyle, it is really up to each individual to determine what it is, whether high adds and difficult moves, rhythm to music, high fliers and crazy spins, or some combination of those or others with possibly some measure of consistency or control thrown in, or thrown out. If anyone has more specific information about the dates, feel free to correct me :) Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 4 20:41:30 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA22373 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:41:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA22369 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:41:10 GMT Received: from nbpayne@osprey.smcm.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (22366) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA22364 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:41:09 GMT Received: from osprey.smcm.edu (osprey.smcm.edu [138.78.1.14]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA25530 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 12:41:10 -0800 Received: from smcm-Message_Server by osprey.smcm.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 04 Mar 1997 15:41:58 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 15:41:33 -0500 From: Neil Payne To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Yeah UPenn! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org 'Stylers, The review of the shred has already been done well... I just want to add a quick message to publicly thank UPenn from the Dragonflies. This was quite a nice gathering from the squash courts to the house 'circus room' of juggling and late night kicking, to the campus green and being blown back into the squash courts. All of us that came up were extrememly inspired. We made plans for regular weekly sessions on campus. I look forward to the East Coast tourney and the possibility of another freestyle gathering. Thanks UPenn! And thanks to everyone who made the trip what it was! You are awesome. Take care, Neil St. Mary's College Dragonflies From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 5 01:35:05 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA23476 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:34:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA23472 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:34:57 GMT Received: from april@bayou.uh.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (23469) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA23467 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:34:56 GMT Received: from Bayou.UH.EDU (Bayou.UH.EDU [129.7.1.7]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA27124 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 17:34:51 -0800 Received: from Sharber.uh.edu (SIP-16688.Public-Dialups.UH.EDU [129.7.65.48]) by Bayou.UH.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA24904 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:34:31 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:34:31 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199703050134.TAA24904@Bayou.UH.EDU> X-Sender: april@bayou.uh.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org From: april@bayou.uh.edu (April Sharber) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Upper body delays (was Unusual body surfaces?) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org My point is >that it does not make any sense to base the rules of your game on the >"name" of the game. > You got it all wrong...The name of the game is based on the rules not the other way around. You kick the bag with your feet, hence the name footbag, not "we called it footbag so I guess we gotta kick it with our feet." Later, Dan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 5 03:12:57 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA23866 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:11:41 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA23862 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:11:39 GMT Received: from shahrayar@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (23859) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA23857 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:11:38 GMT From: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com Received: from emout11.mail.aol.com (emout11.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.26]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA27446 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:11:37 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout11.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id WAA15405 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:11:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:11:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970304221134_-870283467@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Add Question Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have a question about the stomp: is it an add or not? If you do a stomping double-legover, is it three adds or four? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 5 05:48:59 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA24331 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 05:48:58 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA24327 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 05:48:57 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24324) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA24322 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 05:48:56 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA28174 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:48:57 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA28606; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:48:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:48:52 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Add Question In-Reply-To: <970304221134_-870283467@emout11.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 4 Mar 1997 SHAHRAYAR@aol.com wrote: > I have a question about the stomp: is it an add or not? If you do a stomping > double-legover, is it three adds or four? No, you don't get an add for stomping moves. I think there should be an add since it looks so cool. Other cool stomping moves include: Stomping paradon, stomping paradon swirl. I'm sure there are lots more. Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 5 14:03:49 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA25622 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:03:47 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA25618 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:03:44 GMT From: delee@uism.bu.edu Received: from delee@uism.bu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (25615) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA25613 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:03:43 GMT Received: from BU.EDU (BU.EDU [128.197.27.7]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA30518 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 06:03:44 -0800 Received: from uism.bu.edu (UISM-OUT.BU.EDU [128.197.93.52]) by BU.EDU (8.6.13/) with SMTP id JAA08700 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 09:03:35 -0500 Received: from ccMail by uism.bu.edu (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA857581391; Wed, 05 Mar 97 08:59:24 EST Date: Wed, 05 Mar 97 08:59:24 EST Message-Id: <9702058575.AA857581391@uism.bu.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Add Question Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org what exactly makes the difference between a 'stomping' double-legover and a regular one? and another question- what is the correct name for a blur that is set with a pogo set? is it a pogo blur or pogo paradox mirage? _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: [freestyle] Add Question From: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com at SMTPOUT Date: 3/4/97 10:17 PM I have a question about the stomp: is it an add or not? If you do a stomping double-legover, is it three adds or four? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 6 01:24:31 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA27971 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 01:24:28 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA27967 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 01:24:27 GMT Received: from tuanvu@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (27964) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA27962 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 01:24:26 GMT Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [205.252.116.102]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA00828 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 17:24:25 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as34s71.erols.com [207.172.117.239]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA10118 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 20:24:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <331E1F0D.3375@erols.com> Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 20:34:05 -0500 From: TU HUGE Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] NEW FREESTYLE TAPES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all freestylers and wantabees, I would like to announce two new tapes for anyone who would like to see some updated footage from 1996-1997. 1. A NEW SHRED TAPE!!!!!!!!! This new tape includes highlights from the World Championships 1996 in Montreal, the Thanksgiving Jam in San Francisco, and the Heart of Freestyle tourney 1997! There are some of the newest and sickest combos ever hit!!!!! Truly a most for every freestyle lover. 2. The 1996 World Footbag Championship Freestyle Routines. Did you actually want to see the routines of the World Championships rather than read about? Well this tape is a 2-hour fest of some of the greatest routines at worlds. Relive the moments of last years best routines. Selected Routines from all rounds and of every category. It's a great chance for some of you who haven't seen actually competiton yet. Each Tape is $15 US and if you buy both, it's only $25. Also, back issue video of some of last years freestyle competition at several tournaments around the country are available. Just call or e-mail me if you are intreasted: Tu Vu (703)503-7231 tuanvu@erols.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 6 08:25:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA29428 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 08:25:27 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA29424 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 08:25:25 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (29421) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA29419 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 08:25:24 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA02536 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:25:27 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DAI18673; Thu, 06 Mar 1997 03:23:19 EST To: delee@uism.bu.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 02:52:40 PST Subject: [freestyle] Stomping Double legover (was:Add Question) Message-ID: <19970306.032017.3630.132.dervish@juno.com> References: <9702058575.AA857581391@uism.bu.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,12,16-22 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >what exactly makes the difference between a 'stomping' double-legover >and a regular one? > >and another question- what is the correct name for a blur that is set >with a pogo set? is it a pogo blur or pogo paradox mirage? > I want to answer this one first, b/c of the length of the second. pogo paradox mirage. A stomping double legover was originally defined to me as being like a double legover, except after the set, the setting leg is planted; you would jump off both legs, and here's where the discrepancy lies. Both feet go *soles over* the bag. The way I see it being done is more like standard double legover, with the legs passing in front of the footbag. Generally, one could almost call it symposium if not for the set foot being planted. Of course, it isn't _really_ neccessary, is it? (This was my hint for open discourse) JP "English? No problem. Computers? Gimme a break!!" -me in a drunken stupor. : -) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 10 04:52:56 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA00212 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:52:44 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA00171 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:52:39 GMT Received: from tuanvu@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (164) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA00159 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:52:37 GMT Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [205.252.116.102]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA21070 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 06:46:21 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as22s14.erols.com [207.172.120.14]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA15021 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 09:46:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <33217E5B.440E@erols.com> Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 09:57:31 -0500 From: TU HUGE Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] HOT NEW FREESTYLE TAPES!!!!!!! References: <3320B4AA.340@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org TU HUGE wrote: ATTENTION ALL FREESTYLERS!!! I would like to announce that there are 2 NEW freestyle tapes for release with current footage from 1996-1997! 1. A BRAND NEW SHRED TAPE!!! This new tape includes SHRED highlights from the World Footbag Championships 1996 in Montreal, the Thanksgiving Jam in San Francisco, and the Heart of Freestyle Tournament 1997! Brand NEW SHRED of the SICKEST COMBOS EVER HIT!!!! Truly a MUST for every freestyler or freestyler wannabee. 2. The 1996 World Footbag Championship Freestyle Routines. Did you want to actually see the routines of the World Championships rather than read about them? Well this tape is a 2-hour styln' fest that showcases some of the greatest routines from the World Championships. Relive the moments of last years best routines. It includes selected routines from all rounds and of every category in the freestyle competiton. It's a great chance for some of you who haven't seen actually competiton yet. A great way to SKOOL routines! Each tape is $15 US or you can get both tapes for only $25 US!!! Just send a check or money order to: Tuan Vu 4533 California Street San Francisco, CA 94118 And YES, it includes shipping and handling with 2-DAY Priority Mail!!! If you have any questions contact: Tuan Vu (415) 668-8146 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 10 04:52:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA00238 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:52:49 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA00224 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:52:45 GMT Received: from tuanvu@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (204) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA00192 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:52:41 GMT Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [205.252.116.102]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA15194 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:26:00 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as21s04.erols.com [207.172.121.172]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA16363 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:25:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3320B4AA.340@erols.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 19:36:58 -0500 From: TU HUGE Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] HOT NEW FREESTYLE TAPES!!!!!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ATTENTION ALL FREESTYLERS!!! I would like to announce that there are 2 NEW freestyle tapes for release with current footage from 1996-1997! 1. A BRAND NEW SHRED TAPE!!! This new tape includes SHRED highlights from the World Footbag Championships 1996 in Montreal, the Thanksgiving Jam in San Francisco, and the Heart of Freestyle Tournament 1997! Brand NEW SHRED of the SICKEST COMBOS EVER HIT!!!! Truly a MUST for every freestyler or freestyler wannabee. 2. The 1996 World Footbag Championship Freestyle Routines. Did you want to actually see the routines of the World Championships rather than read about them? Well this tape is a 2-hour styln' fest that showcases some of the greatest routines from the World Championships. Relive the moments of last years best routines. It includes selected routines from all rounds and of every category in the freestyle competiton. It's a great chance for some of you who haven't seen actually competiton yet. A great way to SKOOL routines! Each tape is $15 US or you can get both tapes for only $25 US!!! Just send a check or money order to: Tuan Vu 4533 California Street San Francisco, CA 94118 And YES, it includes shipping and handling with 2-DAY Priority Mail!!! If you have any questions contact: Tuan Vu (415) 668-8146 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 10 03:25:37 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA01968 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 03:25:28 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA01964 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 03:25:26 GMT Received: from eric@javaconnection.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1961) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA01959 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 03:25:26 GMT Received: from sol.javaconnection.com (sol.javaconnection.com [207.155.18.98]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA04496 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 19:25:27 -0800 Received: from pc4.javaconnection.com ([207.155.18.102]) by sol.javaconnection.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA14936 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 18:42:47 -0800 Message-ID: <33237EB0.4AA5@javaconnection.com> Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 19:23:28 -0800 From: eric windsor Reply-To: eric@javaconnection.com Organization: user@JavaConnection X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] RE: NEW FREESTYLE TAPES Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was just wondering if anyone has seen the new shread tape TUAN VU put together. I am mainly concerned with the first tape mentioned Did he edit out the not so good runs like on raw shread. Is it just B.A.P? Im sure it is a kick ass shread tape, but i was just wondering about the facts. eric. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 10 05:11:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA02377 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 05:11:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA02372 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 05:11:09 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2369) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA02367 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 05:11:09 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA04964 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 21:11:10 -0800 Received: from p1-97.top.net by mailjay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA13488; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 23:11:08 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970309231319.0079b100@bluejay.creighton.edu> X-Sender: swingert@bluejay.creighton.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 beta 4 (32) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 23:13:21 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Sean Wingert Subject: [freestyle] Move Query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Has anyone every tried this: Clipper--> Jump --> Same Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Clipper Has anyone tried it without the jump? -Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 10 06:23:54 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA02577 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 06:23:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA02573 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 06:23:50 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2570) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA02568 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 06:23:50 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA05274 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 22:23:53 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id BMB05560; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 01:23:42 EST To: swingert@creighton.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 01:20:55 PST Subject: [freestyle] That ain't no move.(was: Move Query) Message-ID: <19970310.012055.17694.2.dervish@juno.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970309231319.0079b100@bluejay.creighton.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3,5-8,10,15,19,21-27 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 09 Mar 1997 23:13:21 -0600 Sean Wingert writes: >Has anyone every tried this: > > Clipper--> Jump --> Same Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Clipper > > Has anyone tried it without the jump? > Sean, I hope you never hit this move. If you do, it means you need more hobbies. What you're describing (If I am seeing it right) is a combination of paradox blur and paradox whirl...or Paradox miraging, miraging (paradox)whirl. This is impossible. I'm not one to set limits, but you're talking about splitting a 3-dex move, alternating legs. I think you'd better work on nemesis while you're at it, buddy. Not. No way. Ain't gonna happen. Uh-uh. Ix-nay. Not a chance. You're dreaming. And if you _have_ hit it, put it on the internet for all to see. Hell, I'd rent time on nationwide tv during the superbowl to show the world how amazing you are. But while I'm thinking about it, a toe-set miraging whirl *would* be really cool: [toe]>[opp. in]>[opp. in]>[opp.clip] sorta toe blur with a clipper, only mildy ridiculous. JP -A little fish in a big pond From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 10 19:42:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA05167 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 19:41:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA05163 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 19:41:32 GMT Received: from tuanvu@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5160) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA05158 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 19:41:32 GMT Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [205.252.116.101]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA10550 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 11:41:39 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as19s14.erols.com [207.172.121.14]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA18371; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:41:32 -0500 Message-ID: <332465BC.4290@erols.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:49:16 -0500 From: TU HUGE Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eric@javaconnection.com CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] RE: NEW FREESTYLE TAPES References: <33237EB0.4AA5@javaconnection.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org eric windsor wrote: > I was just wondering if anyone has seen the new shread tape TUAN VU > put > together. I am mainly concerned with the first tape mentioned > Did he edit out the not so good runs like on raw shread. YEP! > Is it just B.A.P? NOPE! My brother feels, if someone wheels off a phat combo that's BAP worthy they shouldn't be exculded just because they are not in it. > Im sure it is a kick ass shread tape, but i was just wondering about > >the facts. I'm sure you'll enjoy it. It's the ONLY tape I watch anymore. The very beginnig, Rippin pulls out a REALLY sick combo that's at least 70 ADDS! 2 Huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 10 23:29:29 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA06259 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:29:06 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA06255 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:29:04 GMT Received: from kenned57@pilot.msu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6252) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA06250 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:29:03 GMT Received: from pilot21.cl.msu.edu (pilot21.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.31]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA00416 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:28:43 -0800 Received: (kenned57@localhost) by pilot21.cl.msu.edu (8.7.5/MSU-2.10) id RAA47810; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:45:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199703102245.RAA47810@pilot21.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] That ain't no move.(was: Move Query) To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:45:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Cameron Dean Kennedy" In-Reply-To: <19970310.012055.17694.2.dervish@juno.com> from "Josh Penney" at Mar 10, 97 01:20:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i guess that i just quite understand the: Clipper--> Jump --> Same Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Clipper notation for discribing moves. i read this move as a eggbeater butterfly,or reverse mirage, reverse mirage, butterfly, no paradox to it. does the out refer to a dexterity done outside in? also i think that using and for the setting and support foot respectively would be easier to follow than and . $0.02 cameron ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Sun, 09 Mar 1997 23:13:21 -0600 Sean Wingert > writes: > >Has anyone every tried this: > > > > Clipper--> Jump --> Same Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. > Clipper > > > > Has anyone tried it without the jump? > > > Sean, I hope you never hit this move. If you do, it means you need more > hobbies. > What you're describing (If I am seeing it right) is a combination of > paradox blur and paradox whirl...or Paradox miraging, miraging > (paradox)whirl. This is impossible. I'm not one to set limits, but you're talk ing about splitting a 3-dex move, alternating legs. I think you'd > better work on nemesis while you're at it, buddy. > Not. No way. Ain't gonna happen. Uh-uh. Ix-nay. Not a chance. You're > dreaming. And if you _have_ hit it, put it on the internet for all to > see. Hell, I'd rent time on nationwide tv during the superbowl to show > the world how amazing you are. > But while I'm thinking about it, a toe-set miraging whirl *would* be > really cool: > [toe]>[opp. in]>[opp. in]>[opp.clip] > sorta toe blur with a clipper, only mildy ridiculous. > > > JP > -A little fish in a big pond > -- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 07:49:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA08177 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 07:49:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA08173 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 07:49:07 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8170) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA08168 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 07:49:07 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA03787 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:48:50 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id CYV09486; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 02:47:43 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 02:30:37 PST Subject: [freestyle] That ain't no move. Message-ID: <19970311.024514.4678.3.dervish@juno.com> References: <199703102245.RAA47810@pilot21.cl.msu.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-3,5,7-13,15,18,22,25-27,30-35 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >i guess that i just quite understand the: > Clipper--> Jump --> Same Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp.Clipper >notation for discribing moves. i read this move as a eggbeater >butterfly,or reverse mirage, reverse mirage, butterfly, no paradox to it. >does the out refer to a dexterity done outside in? also i think that using > and for the setting and support foot respectively would be >easier to follow than and . > The terminology Sean is using is a little ambiguous, Cameron. What does he mean by "jump"? Is he implying pogo? Then the move becomes worse - pogo paradox reverse mirage with a legbeater at the end. Truly impossible and unforgivable with gravity as a real factor.. Maybe if we send a sipa to NASA they'll send it up and we can see it on the real... Or, maybe it's just part of the 1st dexterity, to smooth out the motion (No pun intended, Scott). Then it becomes paradox blizzard with butterfly, surely. Something worth working on, if anyone wants to... Paul Munger, that's got you name all over it. : ) Yes you are correct as to the dexterity, but the notation becomes confusing in a move with multiple shifts and plants, ie ripwalk: When I switch legs do I have to switch terminology? as is: clip>op in > op out> clip as you portend :clip>sup. in > set out> sup clip? I'm confused by this. Saying and are easier because they relate to each other, and not the movement. I think pogo voodoo in this fashion would be a nightmare, and spinning moves too. I don't know for sure... Sean? What do you make of this mad weave? JP "Lost in a barrel of monkeys on the Planet Of the Apes." From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 14:29:14 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA09209 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:28:34 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA09205 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:28:32 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9202) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA09200 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:28:32 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA06097 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 06:28:17 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA26977 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:28:09 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] That ain't no move. Message-Id: <000000126972940935359@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:29:19 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.7.3 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org (Freestyle Listserve) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Mar 11, 1997, 10:30:37 AM GMT Josh Penney wrote: >.... Saying and are easier because they >relate to each other, and not the movement. I've used a very similar notation system for years, except my system has always specified left and right, and clockwise and ccw for spins. This is necessary for analyzing a string of moves for uniqueness. That "jump" notation is confusing; I think it is meant to imply a 'slur' (front end mirage that actually carries the bag under the mirage leg rather than setting it and doing a true dexterity) which, because of timing and mechanics, makes the move easier than doing it without that front-end-quasi-mirage. If so, my slightly more cryptic notation would be: L xb ins Dl (set) -> R IO -> L IO (pdx) -> R IO -> L IO -> R xb ins Dl Which, agreeing with Josh, is a totally ludicrous move. A 7-add, 4-opposing dexterity move? Good grief, the front-end barrage, back-end barfly is hard enough. There are some sick minds out there! Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 17:44:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA09933 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:44:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA09929 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:44:50 GMT Received: from kenned57@pilot.msu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9926) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA09924 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:44:49 GMT Received: from pilot06.cl.msu.edu (pilot06.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.16]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA07298 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:44:37 -0800 Received: (kenned57@localhost) by pilot06.cl.msu.edu (8.7.5/MSU-2.10) id MAA69522; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:44:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199703111744.MAA69522@pilot06.cl.msu.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Re:that impossible move To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:44:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Cameron Dean Kennedy" In-Reply-To: <000000126972940935359@mlerf.org> from "Derrick Fogle, MLERF" at Mar 11, 97 08:29:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derrick,i like your notation,very easy to follow, but i don't yet understand how all of the outside in dex's got transformed into inside outs, even if the was meant to imply a 'slur'. Clipper--> Jump --> Same Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp.Clipper became L xb ins Dl (set) -> R IO -> L IO (pdx) -> R IO -> L IO -> R xb ins Dl pardon my ignorance cameron ---------- > I've used a very similar notation system for years, except my system has alway s specified left and right, and clockwise and ccw for spins. This is necessary f or analyzing a string of moves for uniqueness. > > That "jump" notation is confusing; I think it is meant to imply a 'slur' (fron t end mirage that actually carries the bag under the mirage leg rather than sett ing it and doing a true dexterity) which, because of timing and mechanics, makes the move easier than doing it without that front-end-quasi-mirage. > > If so, my slightly more cryptic notation would be: > > L xb ins Dl (set) -> R IO -> L IO (pdx) -> R IO -> L IO -> R xb ins Dl ------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 17:50:39 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA09958 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:50:38 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA09954 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:50:38 GMT Received: from kuchma@golden.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9951) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA09949 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:50:37 GMT Received: from golden.net (golden.org [199.166.210.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA07386 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:50:50 -0800 Received: from [207.6.168.60] (cisco1-60.golden.net [207.6.168.60]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA14033; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:47:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:06:56 -0500 To: TU HUGE From: kuchma@golden.net (Mike Kuchma) Subject: [freestyle] Selling at Funtastiks? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Tu! This is probably a really stupid question, but will there be a place to purchase the new tape at the Funtastik labour day tournament? I bought the old Raw Shred at the Gettysburg location and I was very impressed. Thanks -- Kuch From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 18:29:41 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA10111 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:29:40 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA10107 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:29:39 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10104) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA10102 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:29:39 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA07651 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:29:27 -0800 Received: from [17.255.70.146] ([17.255.70.146]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA23196; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:21:13 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:28:55 -0800 To: kuchma@golden.net (Mike Kuchma) From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Selling at Funtastiks? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:06 AM -0800 3/11/97, Mike Kuchma wrote: >This is probably a really stupid question, but will there be a place to >purchase the new tape at the Funtastik labour day tournament? I bought the >old Raw Shred at the Gettysburg location and I was very impressed. Thanks Mike (and anyone else confused :-))... What Tu's advertising is not a "professional" tape; it's just something he (and his brother) are doing as a service to players. They videotape at events and compile stuff and make copies for people and mail them to them on request. They charge a little bit of money to recover their costs and to keep everyone from asking them for copies. By contrast, "Raw Shred" was a pretty serious production involving many dollars and hours, editing equipment, etc.., and is sold through the WFA and other places. (The tape(s) Tu is referring to are just compilations put together using a VCR and dubbed from Hi-8 to VHS by hand.) Just to clarify, there is no "Raw Shred II" (yet). :-) But hopefully Paul will decide to do another. :-) (As for availability of Tu's tapes at Funtastik... If you want a copy, e-mail Tu and he will either mail you a copy in the US mail or you can ask him to bring one to Funtastik. But by then, there'll be a lot more interesting stuff since it will be after Western Regionals and Worlds. There are also at least two other major east-coast tournaments between now and then. Hopefully you can make it to one of them!) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 19:27:37 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA10351 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:26:21 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA10347 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:26:20 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10343) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA10341 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:26:19 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA08115 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:26:05 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06619 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:26:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re:that impossible move Message-Id: <000000127162940953231@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:27:11 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.7.3 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Mar 11, 1997, 5:44:24 PM GMT Cameron Dean Kennedy wrote: >how all of the outside in dex's got transformed into inside outs, even >Clipper--> Jump --> Same Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp.Clipper >L xb ins Dl (set) -> R IO -> L IO (pdx) -> R IO -> L IO -> R xb ins Dl This drives me nuts, too. My own "standard" notation for dexterity direction originally referenced the bag's position to the leg; thus an "IO" dexterity would be a butterfly or reverse-mirage style dexterity, where the bag started "Inside" and ended up "Outside," and an "OI" dexterity was the mirage/whirl type. Everyone else, however, seemed to use the notation to infer the leg's position to the bag (or really, to what? that's why I used the opposite relationship), where the leg started "Inside" and ended up on the "Outside." So I switched to that notation, where an IO is a mirage/whirl type dex, and an OI is a butterfly/reverse-mirage type dex. In the original notation, I figured the "Out" part was referring to where the dexterity ended up. Also, in Josh's original post, he mentioned mirage and whirl. That's why I used "IO" for the dex direction; I thought I was specifying mirage/whirl dexterities. I though everyone was pretty settled on this, but now I think at least I'm still confused. This has been happening alot lately. Ever since that little Sh*t Leonard Griswell almost hit mobius in front of me, well, I've been a bit preoccupied. It certainly looks a bit cryptic on the face of it, but I had a larger reason. My structure and methodology used consistent 1, 2, and 3 letter abbreviations for contacts surfaces, types, sides, dexterity elements, and body elements so that when you typed the stuff into a record in a database, calculations could parse out the components and "score" the move. This was done in part with an eye on creating a chorded-keyboard iterpreter so one skilled person could very quickly and accurately input "as it happens" data, and have a database score all the composition components of a freestyle routine, including adds, contact ratio, and unique move distribution in each category. It was a nice idea, but the project never got past the creation of the interpreter database. Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 19:55:20 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA10453 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:54:04 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA10449 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:54:04 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10446) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA10444 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:54:03 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA08356 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:53:51 -0800 Received: from [17.255.70.146] ([17.255.70.146]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA24239 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:45:54 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000000127162940953231@mlerf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:53:34 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Notation (was Re: that impossible move) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:27 AM -0800 3/11/97, Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: >I though everyone was pretty settled on this, but now I think at least I'm >still confused. That's why I've been advocating a CONSISTENT notation on this list; if everyone keeps making up their own terms and then debating the mechanics of moves based on misconceptions of what people are saying, it's just a waste of everyone's time. I like Ben Job's notation as a reasonable point of departure for discussing freestyle on this list. We've been using it but it seems to have degraded to the point that everyone is adding their own changes. Please re-read the description of the notation, which I'm including at the end of this message. And if someone posts a message and it doesn't make sense, write them directly to clarify instead of assuming you know what they're talking about. Thanks. I do not want to change the meanings of things like "in-out" or "op-same". Let's leave them the way they are in Ben's message below. The system is entirely arbitrary -- one way is not better than another. But if we don't agree on a way to do it, we'll never understand each other. Steve ----- begin included message from Ben Job (no longer online): Originally-From: BJ (now job@benji.colorado.edu) Original-Subject: By the Way, Not the Name Originally-To: footbag@footbag.org Original-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 02:16:38 -0700 (MST) Here's some food for thought... Feedback is welcome, particularly in regard to the names in the list. Try the "complete" list... Benjamin Job A List By the Way This paper presents a notation for describing footbag tricks and representing the relationships that exist between them. Additionally, it presents the means for generating a comprehensive list of possible variations. Break a trick down. You get a series of movements preceeded by a set and followed by a catch (or kick). The set and catch options are few and easily listable. The series of movements, though allowing of more variation, are similarly listable. Represented as a formula, this information provides us with the means to logically generate trick variations. As the precision of the formula increases, that is, as more of the finite number of basic movements are incorperated into the formula, we approach the specification of every trick possible. Consider the following: (toe | clip) > [(same | op)(in | out)dexterity]* > (same | op)(toe | clip) The notation is as follows: "Same" and "op" are always relative to the leg previously refered to. "In" and "out" mean "inside" and "outside", respec- tively. "|" is equiv. to "choice" ("or"). "[ ]" means "enclosed dex is optional". ">" is equiv. to "followed by". "*" means the preceding term can occur/re-occur 0 or more times. From this simple formula, most non-modified leg dexterities can be derived. Because of the structure of the formula, a "truth table" of moves can be gen- erated, leaving no move undiscovered (ex., see list). Some examples: clip > op clip Clipper to Clipper toe > op in dex > op toe Mirage clip > same in dex > op out dex > same toe Paradox Dbl Legover clip > op in dex > same in dex > op out dex > same toe Flurry How far can we go? Only slight modifications are needed to account for other modifiers and their associated possibilities. For example, Pogo, Symposium, Spinning, ang Gyro moves can be formed by adding "(no plant while)" and "(forward | backward)spin". The formula, (toe | clip) > [(no plant while)] [(same | op)(in | out)dexterity | (for | back)spin]* > (same | op)(toe | clip) describes variations such as: clip > (no plant while) op in dex > op in dex > (no plant while) op in dex > op toe Pogo Paradox Symposium Blur The set and catch options can be filled in with all the choices: inside, outside, knee, the unsual surfaces. What elements that may comprise a trick have yet to be accounted for? Just a few: stomping ["(both legs plant)"], blind, hop-over, carry (Wrap), duck, dive, jumping/flying, Swirl/Twirl cross- body dex, swing (Pendulum, Rake). Not many other types of primitive movements exist. Since the acceptable tricks are just combinations of these primitives; and since each primitive may be easily implemented within the formula; the the possibility of a master formula for all tricks becomes complete. Note: "same", "op" and "no plant" are relative to the leg previously refered to. Examples: clip > op in dex > op out dex > op clip Ripwalk toe > same out dex > same out dex > op clip Double Over Down toe > op out dex > op out dex > same toe Eggbeater toe > (no plant while) > op in dex > op toe Symposium Mirage toe > (no plant while) > op in dex > op clip Symposium Whirl clip > same in dex > op in dex > op toe Pdx Blur clip > same out dex > same out dex > op clip Barfly clip > op in dex > same in dex > same toe Double Pickup clip > op in dex > (no plant while) op out dex > op clip Dada Curve clip > (back)spin > same in dex > op out dex > op clip Gyro Ripwalk From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 20:28:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA10633 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:27:05 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA10629 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:27:03 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10626) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA10624 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:27:03 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA08618 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:26:51 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09718 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:26:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Notation (was Re: that impossible move) Message-Id: <000000127222940956879@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:27:59 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.7.3 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Mar 11, 1997, 7:53:34 PM GMT Steve Goldberg wrote: >That's why I've been advocating a CONSISTENT notation on this list; if Four points, directed towards Steve, but just because I'm in a chatty mood today, everyone gets to hear them: 1) I did, in fact, get myself turned around somewhere on what "In" and "Out" are supposed to imply. According to Ben's original post, "In" means mirage whirl dexterity, and "Out" means butterfly/reverse-mirage dexterity. Note that this is never actually stated, but implied once some examples are given. I'll try to remember better in the future. 2) I never meant to derail Ben's description system; indeed, it's only lack is to define sides, which is totally irrelevant for most discussions on the list. 3) For the benefit of someone out there that might be interested in any background or potential ideas for evolution of freestyle judging, I got a little chatty and tried to explain why I had some other system. 4) "Forward" and "Backward" seem like linear motion descriptors, not rotational descriptors. There is one example in the post that inferrs that torque uses "forward" spin, mobius uses "backward" spin. Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 20:50:38 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA10745 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:49:18 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA10741 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:49:17 GMT Received: from the_sock@ihug.co.nz () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10738) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA10736 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:49:17 GMT Received: from ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.4]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA08794 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:49:04 -0800 Received: from port280-Auck.ihug.co.nz (port280-Auck.ihug.co.nz [202.49.255.26]) by ihug.co.nz (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA13439 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:52:10 +1300 (NZDT) Received: by port280-Auck.ihug.co.nz with Microsoft Mail id <01BC2ECA.A1A61960@port280-Auck.ihug.co.nz>; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:49:08 +1300 Message-ID: <01BC2ECA.A1A61960@port280-Auck.ihug.co.nz> From: The Sock To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Notation (was Re: that impossible move) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:42:38 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I say we stick to Jobs notation, coz I wont wanna re-enter 200 Moves on = my list :) BTW, can someone tell me which (same leg) triple dexterity moves have = been hit? So far I have heard of Triage (toe > same in out > same in out = > same in out > op toe... and triple around the world (in bare feet or = something)... anyone hit triple mirage? :) any 4 Dexs been hit yet?=20 Pixie-Paradon-Swirl perhaps? Later From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 23:30:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11537 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:29:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11533 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:29:10 GMT Received: from shahrayar@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11530) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA11528 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:29:10 GMT From: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com Received: from emout08.mail.aol.com (emout08.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA10313 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:29:28 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout08.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id SAA17888 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:29:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:29:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970311182912_-1338685529@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Notation (was Re: that impossible move) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org say we stick to Jobs notation, coz I wont wanna re-enter 200 Moves on my list :) BTW, can someone tell me which (same leg) triple dexterity moves have been hit? So far I have heard of Triage (toe > same in out > same in out > same in out > op toe... and triple around the world (in bare feet or something)... anyone hit triple mirage? :) any 4 Dexs been hit yet? Pixie-Paradon-Swirl perhaps? Later <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I have only seen one of the moves you are describing, and the is the triple around the world. Tuan Vu can hit that (in his bare feet), I'm not sure if we'll a four dexterity move, well, not from me anyway... From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 23:30:50 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11548 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:29:27 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11544 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:29:26 GMT Received: from shahrayar@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11541) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA11539 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:29:26 GMT From: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com (emout14.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.40]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA10326 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:29:45 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id SAA19359 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:29:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:29:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970311182927_-1706885208@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Notation (was Re: that impossible move) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org BTW, can someone tell me which (same leg) triple dexterity moves have been hit? So far I have heard of Triage (toe > same in out > same in out > same in out > op toe... and triple around the world (in bare feet or something)... anyone hit triple mirage? :) any 4 Dexs been hit yet? Pixie-Paradon-Swirl perhaps? Later <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I have only seen one of the moves you are describing, and the is the triple around the world. Tuan Vu can hit that (in his bare feet), I'm not sure if we'll a four dexterity move, well, not from me anyway... From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 23:41:29 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11617 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:41:28 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11613 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:41:27 GMT Received: from shahrayar@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11610) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA11608 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:41:27 GMT From: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com Received: from emout25.mail.aol.com (emout25.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.130]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA10446 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:41:47 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout25.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id SAA14135 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:41:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:41:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970311183214_-1204602065@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Notation (was Re: that impossible move) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org BTW, can someone tell me which (same leg) triple dexterity moves have been hit? So far I have heard of Triage (toe > same in out > same in out > same in out > op toe... and triple around the world (in bare feet or something)... anyone hit triple mirage? :) any 4 Dexs been hit yet? Pixie-Paradon-Swirl perhaps? Later <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I have only seen one of the moves you are describing, and the is the triple around the world. Tuan Vu can hit that (in his bare feet), I'm not sure if we'll a four dexterity move, well, not from me anyway... From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 23:51:49 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11695 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:51:49 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11691 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:51:48 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11688) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA11686 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:51:47 GMT Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA10554 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:51:37 -0800 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3/SAS.03) id SAA16168; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:51:11 -0500 (EST) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Message-Id: <199703112351.SAA16168@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Notation (was Re: that impossible move) To: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:51:11 -0500 (EST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <970311183214_-1204602065@emout12.mail.aol.com> from "SHAHRAYAR@aol.com" at Mar 11, 97 06:41:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > BTW, can someone tell me which (same leg) triple dexterity moves have been > hit? So far I have heard of Triage (toe > same in out > same in out > same in > out > op toe... and triple around the world (in bare feet or something)... > anyone hit triple mirage? :) any 4 Dexs been hit yet? > Pixie-Paradon-Swirl perhaps? No 4 dex's have been hit as of 96 (I'm fairly sure). Triple dex with one leg: triage from toe (Tuan Vu) triple around the world (has been hit in shoes) triple over down (I heard Dennis Jones hit this) blurry down double down (Genzu, Kenny, handfull of other) triple over osis (Some guy called Jubal came really close in front of me, but said he had actually hit it before. Steve, you know this guy right?) Other moves apart from that would have to be set from pixie (Unless something so far impossibly sick like triple mirage gets hit) Help me out if I forgot something. Later, Alex From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 12 00:37:01 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA11902 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:37:00 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA11898 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:36:58 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11895) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA11893 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:36:58 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA11049 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 16:36:46 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id TpG21646; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:25:22 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:09:39 PST Subject: [freestyle] Re:Notation Message-ID: <19970311.192213.13214.2.dervish@juno.com> References: <000000127222940956879@mlerf.org> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4-6,8-10,12,14-17 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:27:59 -0600 dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) writes: >On Tue, Mar 11, 1997, 7:53:34 PM GMT Steve Goldberg wrote: >>That's why I've been advocating a CONSISTENT notation on this list; if... > >4) "Forward" and "Backward" seem like linear motion descriptors, not >rotational descriptors. There is one example in the post that inferrs that >torque uses "forward" spin, mobius uses "backward" spin. I am hip to all of this, in complete agreement. However, there is still a gap or two: Kick sets, spins, inspin, ducks and dives. None of these are as of yet listed. Any ideas? JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 12 01:46:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA12136 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 01:46:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA12132 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 01:46:21 GMT Received: from poisnblood@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12129) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA12127 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 01:46:21 GMT From: Poisnblood@aol.com Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com (emout06.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.97]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA11682 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:46:40 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id UAA17650; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:46:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:46:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970311204635_2096646047@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: dervish@juno.com, swingert@creighton.edu cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] That ain't no move.(was: Move Query) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >In a message dated 97-03-10 01:28:56 EST, dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney)> >writes: > But while I'm thinking about it, a toe-set miraging whirl *would* be > really cool: > [toe]>[opp. in]>[opp. in]>[opp.clip] > sorta toe blur with a clipper, only mildy ridiculous. > JP > -A little fish in a big pond Thats real close to a move I was trying. (right toe--> left outside-in--> right inside-out -->left foot clipper). Has anyone hit that? It has a weird twist going from mirage to whirl. -Mike From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 12 02:12:26 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA12258 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 02:12:26 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA12254 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 02:12:24 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12251) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA12249 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 02:12:24 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA11890 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:12:14 -0800 Received: from p1-100.top.net by mailjay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA24709; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:12:12 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970311201421.0079ada0@bluejay.creighton.edu> X-Sender: swingert@bluejay.creighton.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 beta 4 (32) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:14:25 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Sean Wingert Subject: [freestyle] The "Impossible" Move Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org To resolve ambiguity from my posted move: 1. First of all, I can NOT hit it :-) 2. The "jump" WAS ambiguous and I didn't mean pogo (see #5). 3. I intended for the move to be a paradox blurriest in the air. 4. I also intended it to *look* like a paradox dada (which requires the "jump") but have an extra dex. on the 2nd dex foot. 5. With Jobs' notation, I meant: clip > same in dex > (no plant while) op out dex > same out dex > op clip Still, I am confused as to how Jobs' notation accounts for the BODY add implicit in a jump. That is crucial because this move would require leaving the ground with BOTH feet(thereby increasing the ADD value). Comments? Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 12 02:41:34 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA12339 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 02:41:29 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA12335 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 02:41:28 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12332) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA12330 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 02:41:28 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA12160 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:41:48 -0800 Received: from [17.255.70.146] ([17.255.70.146]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA28912; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:33:44 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970311201421.0079ada0@bluejay.creighton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:40:35 -0800 To: Sean Wingert From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] The "Impossible" Move Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 6:14 PM -0800 3/11/97, Sean Wingert wrote: >Still, I am confused as to how Jobs' notation accounts for the BODY add >implicit in a jump. Not an issue, since nobody uses adds anyway. Let's discuss how to hit the tricks and not what their add values are and we'll all get a lot farther. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 12 03:16:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA12561 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 03:15:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA12557 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 03:15:54 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12554) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA12552 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 03:15:54 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA12442 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:16:15 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id WxQ21646; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 22:10:44 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 21:59:21 PST Subject: [freestyle] Notation and The "Impossible" Move Message-ID: <19970311.220820.3382.2.dervish@juno.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970311201421.0079ada0@bluejay.creighton.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-5,7-12,14-18,23-24,29-33,35-37,39,41-43,49-54 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > 3. I intended for the move to be a paradox blurriest in the air. > 4. I also intended it to *look* like a paradox dada (which requires the > "jump") but have an extra dex. on the 2nd dex foot. > 5. With Jobs' notation, I meant: > > clip > same in dex > (no plant while) op out dex > same out dex > > op clip Okay.. I understand implicitly. I still think you're crazy. >Still, I am confused as to how Jobs' notation accounts for the BODY add >implicit in a jump. That is crucial because this move would require leaving >the ground with BOTH feet(thereby increasing the ADD value). >Comments? It doesn't. As Derrick told me, there are some moves which are the same, like Dada and Ripwalk. These are different moves, as we both know... just not unique from each other, since the add components are the same. [dex, dex, xbody, del] Therefore, using the Worlds' judging system for freestyle these two moves would be considered the same move. It also brings to mind the question of facilitating a (symposium) body add in paradox dada, but making it a 6add move would be ludicrous. Making paradox blurriest worth seven is unacceptable. At least to me. But I think I've mentioned before how the add system doesn't really rate difficulty, it measures qualifiers within categories. And I wanted to add something to this, thus the reprint: >4) "Forward" and "Backward" seem like linear motion descriptors, not >rotational descriptors. There is one example in the post that infers that >torque uses "forward" spin, mobius uses "backward" spin. I am hip to all of this, in complete agreement. However, there is still a gap or two: Kick sets, spins, inspin, ducks and dives. None of these are as of yet listed. We could say and and and , but: The other thing I didn't mention was swirls...I mean there are two kinds, right? There's from behind the bag, and in front of the bag. so it could possibly be listed as - like in hopover swirl and butterfly swirl and the dreaded whirling swirl, and then there's like we see in Scott Davidson's 'twirl' (patent pending). Of course, then we could talk about unusuals and we'd really start having some fun. JP "If I type 22 words a minute, how long did it take me to type all this?" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 12 05:33:43 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA13023 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 05:33:03 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA13019 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 05:33:02 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (13016) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA13014 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 05:33:02 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA13095 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 21:32:54 -0800 Received: (fro