From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 1 02:12:15 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA02605 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 02:12:12 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA02601 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 02:12:11 GMT Received: from hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2598) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA02596 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 02:12:11 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu ([129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA31809; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:12:09 -0800 Received: from skull.cs.uidaho.edu (skull.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.108]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.1) with ESMTP id SAA27746; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:12:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by skull.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.0) with SMTP id SAA03449; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:12:07 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: skull.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:12:07 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand To: Scott Davidson cc: Josh Penney , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unusual surfaces? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Scott Davidson wrote: > Hi Josh and Everyone! > > >How many unusual surfaces can you think of? > >There's: > >2 calves, > >2 heels, > >2 tippy-toes, > >2 soles, > >2 shins, > >2 crooks behind the knee (I sorta wanna call this area the 'kneebow'). > > Many of the above can be done Cross body (except tippy-toes and shins), so > double it... from 8 you now have 16. Let's not forget about the "Ding-a-Ling Delay" as an unusual surface delay. It was named that by a couple of my friends here in Moscow, Idaho. Of course you have to be male to perform this move. ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 hootie AND phish blow From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 1 04:32:37 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA03194 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 04:32:19 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA03190 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 04:32:18 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3187) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA03185 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 04:32:18 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA32385 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 20:32:18 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id XrL01111; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:31:23 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:10:50 PST Subject: Re: [freestyle] move questions Message-ID: <19970228.232822.3326.0.dervish@juno.com> References: <199702282233.RAA83251@pilot05.cl.msu.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-7,10,12-13,18-20 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >paradox question: >this would probably be considered two seperate moves right? atw,wrap? Correct. >another question: >whats the difference between spinning and gyrating? The direction, based on the set. If I set with my left clipper foot, and spin away from it, and into another move, would be considered 'gyro'. there's no such thing as a 'gyrating toe stall.' But: Same set, spin all the way around to the right, is called, 'inspin' , because it's further than a whole turn. I can cite some examples : Left clipper, turn so the bag travels behind you, and bring that set leg outside in to hit a butterfly on the right clipper delay, that's gyro butterfly. Most moves that involve the first dexterity with the same leg that set the bag are gyro. The same set to a butterfly with the LEFT clipper would be spinning. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 1 04:32:38 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA03205 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 04:32:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA03201 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 04:32:32 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3198) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA03196 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 04:32:32 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA32387 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 20:32:32 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id XrO01111; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:31:23 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:26:35 PST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unusual surfaces? Message-ID: <19970228.232822.3326.3.dervish@juno.com> References: <000000123662940005637@mlerf.org> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,11-28 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>How many unusual surfaces can you think of? There's: >>2 calves, 2 heels, 2 tippy-toes, 2 soles, 2 shins, >>2 crooks behind the knee (I sorta wanna call this area the 'kneebow'). > >Many of the above can be done Cross body (except tippy-toes and >shins), so double it... from 8 you now have 16. Umm... 20? >>I feel we need a limit on the number of upper body moves you can do and >>still call them "unusual". I think it should be 1. The Comp Card judges > >Cool - something we might almost try to work up into a controversy! >Here's my take: There are 5 unique upper body "surfaces" - head, back, >chest, and each arm. You only get an Unusual add for each, but can >combine those contacts with other add elements for additional unique >moves (a neck catch [1 add] and a pixie set neck catch [2 adds] are >each unique moves). >And yes, that means all that eye-socket juggling and side of head and >top of head stuff gets one add for each contact, but only gets counted >as one unique move in the unusual surface category. > >So simple. Any questions? Agreed, even tho I will delay from shoulder to shoulder for hours! JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 1 18:09:52 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA04746 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:09:45 GMT Received: from hungchang_at_bldg2@ca.slr.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3116) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA03114 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 04:06:43 GMT From: HungChang_at_BLDG2@ca.slr.com Received: from relay1.smtp.psi.net (relay1.smtp.psi.net [38.8.14.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA32271 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 20:06:43 -0800 Received: from dns.slr.com by relay1.smtp.psi.net (8.8.3/SMI-5.4-PSI) id XAA00129; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:06:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ca.slr.com ([158.116.9.16]) by dns.slr.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA05695; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 20:06:55 -0800 Received: from ccMail by ca.slr.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA857188618; Fri, 28 Feb 97 18:02:51 PST Date: Fri, 28 Feb 97 18:02:51 PST Message-Id: <9701288571.AA857188618@ca.slr.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Upper body delays (was Unusual body surfaces?) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Scott Davidson wrote: >"Upper body delays are lame, and hence, any add counter with honor >will give you only one add....." > >"Footbag, not "Upper-body" Bag! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! You traditional CONSERVATIVE closed minded freestyler! :) Upper body delays are not lame. In a performance sport like freestyle, presentation is way more important than the scoring system (ie ice skating). Your MAIN audience (out in TV land) probably enjoys watching upper body moves or stalls more than a 5-add move. So why do you want to discourage a very enjoyable part of the routine? Take a look at the tradition "footbirdie" freestyle in China. Multiple body stalls! It's what the audiences like. Also, Steve Goldberg wrote: >Those are all body adds -- not delay. "Delay" only applies to feet. >This >is FOOTbag. :-) Illogical argument. Does that mean "Football" should only be played with your feet? Hung p.s. this reminds me of that female African ice skater who would do backflips in her routine. The crowd loved it, but the judges weren't too impress. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 1 18:09:57 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA04763 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:09:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA04759 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:09:55 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4756) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA04754 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:09:55 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA03378 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 10:09:55 -0800 Received: from [17.255.70.146] ([17.255.70.146]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA26537 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 10:02:09 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970228.232822.3326.0.dervish@juno.com> References: <199702282233.RAA83251@pilot05.cl.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 10:07:29 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] move questions Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:10 PM -0800 2/28/97, Josh Penney wrote: >>paradox question: >>this would probably be considered two seperate moves right? atw,wrap? > >Correct. It's not necessarily two different moves, though, depending on how you do it. If you really mean "wrap" in the sense of you stop after the first atw and then do the wrap motion, then yes, two moves. But if you actually catch the bag in a fluid motion that results in either a refraction or a butterfly, then you've hit either a paradox refraction (?) or a paradox DADA curve. (Moves are still paradox if the final delay is performed with the original setting foot in the cross-body position.) >>another question: >>whats the difference between spinning and gyrating? > >The direction, based on the set. I think there's just a little more to it than what Josh said.. "Spinning" and "In-Spinning" mean simply that you spin before doing a trick--if you spin away from the set it's a "spin" and if you spin into the set it's an "in-spin"). "Gyrating" means "spinning", but where there's a *dexterity* performed by the setting foot on the way around, i.e., as you're spinning, without planting your set foot, you spin on one leg, reach over the bag with your set foot, and *then* do something. (Viz. "mobius" = "gyrating torque" and "vortex" = "gyrating drifter".) This is especially hard compared to just spinning. And it is this dexterity that is deemed to be approximately congruous with the dexterity in paradox moves, thus ruling out paradox elements in gyrating moves. Idunno if that made any sense... I just woke up. :-) Then there're even more spinning concepts, but they seem to be in a state of flux (pun intended). For example, "Bock Set" (*not* "Box Set" as many people seem to believe) was originally something like a blurry-inspinning-dexterity (i.e., miraging-in-spin), but Tuan tells me that that's been renamed to be something else and now Bock Set means something else. So if anyone can clue the list in on this new nomenclature please do... :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 1 18:59:10 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA04896 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:59:09 GMT Received: from caseyr@phoenix.princeton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4824) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA04822 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:47:12 GMT Received: from lists.Princeton.EDU (lists.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.249]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA03542 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 10:47:13 -0800 Received: from ponyexpress.Princeton.EDU ([128.112.129.131]) by lists.Princeton.EDU with ESMTP id <370489.s3-1>; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 13:47:05 -0500 Received: from flagstaff.Princeton.EDU (flagstaff.Princeton.EDU [128.112.131.154]) by ponyexpress.Princeton.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA23282; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 13:46:51 -0500 Received: from localhost (caseyr@localhost) by flagstaff.Princeton.EDU (SMI-8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA23833; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 13:46:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: flagstaff.princeton.edu: caseyr owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 13:46:49 -0500 (EST) From: "Casey G. Rothschild" To: HungChang_at_BLDG2@ca.slr.com cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Upper body delays (was Unusual body surfaces?) In-Reply-To: <9701288571.AA857188618@ca.slr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'll chip in my two cents here: > Scott Davidson wrote: > > >"Upper body delays are lame, and hence, any add counter with honor > >will give you only one add....." > > > >"Footbag, not "Upper-body" Bag! > > > WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! You traditional CONSERVATIVE closed minded > freestyler! :) I have no problems at all with both of these views. There is no question that sweet upper-body moves and other 'old-school-type' low add moves are sweet and fun as can be. For those of us who have no interest in persuing a 'sport' such as footbag for anything more than the sheer beauty and enjoyment of it, these moves are great. For those who, beyond this interest, also find an interest in attepting to slap on a bunch of rules so that they can compete at this game, upper body stalls become less ideal. In making the sport competitive, certain (no offense) arbitrary rules need to be adopted. If this mean upper body stalls need to be downplayed in competition, that's fine by me. > Upper body delays are not lame. In a performance sport like > freestyle, presentation is way more important than the scoring system > (ie ice skating). Your MAIN audience (out in TV land) probably enjoys > watching upper body moves or stalls more than a 5-add move. So why do > you want to discourage a very enjoyable part of the routine? Take a > look at the tradition "footbirdie" freestyle in China. Multiple body > stalls! It's what the audiences like. First: Who says audiences are all that matter? Second: "footbirdie" is most certainly not "footbag" even if it is similar. > Also, Steve Goldberg wrote: > > >Those are all body adds -- not delay. "Delay" only applies to feet. > >This > >is FOOTbag. :-) > > Illogical argument. Does that mean "Football" should only be played > with your feet? I'd say the latter is the illogical argument. Just because football is misnamed does not mean footbag (as a competetive sport, not just as a hobby as it is for me) need also be misnamed - especially when you compare the logic of the two sports: the former is a bunch of large males butting heads and grunting, the latter quite possibly the most sublimely graceful sport in the world. I find it hard to even read about any comparison between the two... Casey From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 1 20:54:57 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05246 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 20:54:43 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05242 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 20:54:41 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5239) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA05237 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 20:54:40 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA04083 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:54:42 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07013 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:54:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:54:41 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] ducking paradox?? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! I was wondering if you get a paradox add for ducking moves? For example: if I did a ducking whirl, would it be paradox? Other ones would include ducking blender, ducking mirage (with the same foot you set with) etc. What do you guys think? Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 2 05:44:33 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA11652 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 05:44:30 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA11648 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 05:44:28 GMT Received: from kuchma@golden.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11645) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA11643 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 05:44:27 GMT Received: from golden.net ([199.166.210.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA06440 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 21:43:45 -0800 Received: from [207.6.168.151] (cisco3-151.golden.net [207.6.168.151]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA26498; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 00:42:43 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 00:58:37 -0500 To: Verhoef Anne , freestyle@footbag.org From: kuchma@golden.net (Mike Kuchma) Subject: [freestyle] Re: ducking paradox?? -- Elaborate Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:54 PM 3/1/97, Verhoef Anne wrote: >Hi Freestylers! > >I was wondering if you get a paradox add for ducking moves? Hi Adrian! Could you please elaborate on what exactly you mean by 'ducking'. If you mean as in one's head passing under the bag, I have a difficult time picturing a ducking whirl. Just curious. -- Kuch - - - - - "He's not well liked..." - Arthur Miller From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 2 08:16:48 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA12085 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 08:16:46 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA12081 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 08:16:44 GMT Received: from schneija@ucsu.colorado.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12078) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA12076 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 08:16:42 GMT Received: from ucsu.Colorado.EDU (ucsu.Colorado.EDU [128.138.129.83]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA06997 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 00:16:45 -0800 Received: (from schneija@localhost) by ucsu.Colorado.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.4/CNS-4.1p) id BAA18985 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:16:45 -0700 (MST) From: Freestyle Jedi (Shpater Dude) Message-Id: <199703020816.BAA18985@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> Subject: [freestyle] Ducking Paradox!! To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:16:44 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hello, on the subject of ducking paradox moves, i have never seen a ducking paradox whirl, though i don't see why shouldn't be paradox if it could be hit, and i don't see why someone with better skills than i couldn't hit one. many moves have two body adds, like paradox symposium mirage, and spinning butterflyer and paradox dragonfly, so i don't see any reason why a move couldn't count both a ducking and a paradox element. besides, my friend Ben Jobs, busts out wicked cool ducking paradox mirages, and there is nothing bad to be said about them. i wish i could do them. and i will one day. but now i've got to run, so catch y'all.. Shpater, Dudes Jonathan Schneider may the Force be with us From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 3 06:10:21 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA15291 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 06:10:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA15287 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 06:10:09 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (15284) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA15282 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 06:10:08 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA12907 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 22:10:10 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id BGT13386; Mon, 03 Mar 1997 01:09:27 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 23:21:20 PST Subject: [freestyle] UPENN JAM!!! Message-ID: <19970303.010632.3342.10.dervish@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,4,12,17-19 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well, the March 1st "In like a lion" freestyle jam at Upenn was awesome. There were at least 25 people in attendance, representing from: DC's allstars, St.Mary's Dragonflies, SanFrancisco, NYFA, and of course, UPenn. Saturday we had two squash courts filled with freestylers and an incredible time was had by all. Toby and Dave were in the neighborhood, and took time out of their busy touring schedule for creative athletics to show us how it's gotta be done. In fact, they're doing a show tomorrow morning; lots of accolades and love for those guys. Showing his genetic ability, Tu Vu styled like nobody else, hitting combos I can't recall - they were really that fast. Eric Wulff was his usual unbelievable self, and I'm sure glad someone taped that juggle. Carol Wedemeyer ripped so hard with drifter, ripwalk, torque, to blur I think it rattled my fillings loose. As for me, I finally crossed the line from no barrages to barrages on both sides, I got to see what the mighty scepter is for, and I got to eat the greasiest food on the planet for a day and a half. Thanks to The UPenn Footbag club for hosting the weekend of add-crunchiness from hell. Let's do this again real soon. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 3 18:32:38 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA17096 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:32:35 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA17092 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:32:24 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (17089) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA17087 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:32:13 GMT Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA16602 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:32:14 -0800 Received: from [207.70.66.134] (d134.cloud.interaccess.com [207.70.66.134]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id MAA15051; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:31:43 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:40:01 -0500 To: HungChang_at_BLDG2@ca.slr.com From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Upper body delays (was Unusual body surfaces?) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Hung! > >"Upper body delays are lame, and hence, any add counter with honor > >will give you only one add....." > > > >"Footbag, not "Upper-body" Bag! > > > WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! You traditional CONSERVATIVE closed minded > freestyler! :) > > Upper body delays are not lame. In a performance sport like > freestyle, presentation is way more important than the scoring system > (ie ice skating). Your MAIN audience (out in TV land) probably enjoys > watching upper body moves or stalls more than a 5-add move. So why do > you want to discourage a very enjoyable part of the routine? Take a > look at the tradition "footbirdie" freestyle in China. Multiple body > stalls! It's what the audiences like. I suppose, you need to know my personal situation, in order to understand where I am coming from. I challenge myself, and others around me to be their best. To do their hardest stuff. For me, that holds true for my performances. I am striving for a guiltless ratio in my performances, so that should tell you why I will not do simple moves like those upper body delays (except in extreme diress). Sure "audiences" like upper bodies, but I don't get personal satisfaction from the audience, I get satisfaction from personal achievement. > Also, Steve Goldberg wrote: > >Those are all body adds -- not delay. "Delay" only applies to feet. > >This is FOOTbag. :-) > > Illogical argument. Does that mean "Football" should only be played > with your feet? Well, um, YES! Football is played with your feet. There is a big tournament that you may have heard of, they get over 36 BILLION viewers worldwide, and it is called the "World Cup"... maybe you have heard of it? Um, urgh, unless you are an american, then they play some bastardized throwing game and they call it "Football". But that is another rant. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 3 18:41:52 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA17165 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:41:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA17161 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:41:51 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (17158) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA17156 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:41:51 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA16667 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:41:51 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA18362 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:41:43 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Upper body delays (was Unusual body surfaces?) Message-Id: <000000124082940259355@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 12:42:35 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.7.3 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, Mar 3, 1997, 5:40:01 PM GMT Scott Davidson wrote: >performances. I am striving for a guiltless ratio in my performances, so >that should tell you why I will not do simple moves like those upper body Triple spin to a neck catch, Scott. Try that! Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 3 20:30:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA17738 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 20:30:10 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA17734 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 20:30:08 GMT Received: from tuanvu@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (17731) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA17729 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 20:30:08 GMT Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [205.252.116.101]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA17269 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:30:09 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as6s02.erols.com [207.172.2.146]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA04611 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 15:30:17 -0500 Message-ID: <331B36C1.525C@erols.com> Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 15:38:25 -0500 From: Tu Vu Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] UPENN JAMMED!!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Last Weekend's session at UPENN was one of the best Jams I have ever attended in my life!! There were some many stylers from the East Coast and California (i.e. Toby and Dave) that made this session one for the record books. There was none of that "your not good enough to kick in this cirlce deal". Everyone rotated around so everyone got to kick with everyone (except I never got to kick with Carol, who I saw from the corner of my eye bust out torque>blur like she had been doing that combo for years). Toby and Dave shred at such amazing levels. Toby had some LONG and SMOOTH guiltless combos with some of the most amazing ducks I have ever seen. Dave busted out some mean Gyro combos and I hope he will hit Davie Jones's Locker (Inspinning butterfly). Wulff was pulling out devasting combos showing that he has such great skills to throw in over half a dozen ducking butterfy in a row to a blurriest any time he felt like it. His unique style marveled both sqaush ball courts. Josh Penny has shown HUGE improvement with plenty of four combos and stepping butterfly on both sides just to name a few. Stu Roll traveled across the East Coast and back and still manged to kick on both days. He's been bustin' leg-beater>blur, blurry whirl, and many a Paradox Torque. Jim McCoppin was stomping the floor away with some HUGE stomping double-legovers. Everyone improved by the time the weekend was over. Everyone shreded there hearts out especially the UPENN boys! I hope to see everyone at the 15th Annual East Coast Championships April 26-27. 2 Huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 4 08:32:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA20222 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:32:09 GMT Received: from hungchang_at_bldg2@ca.slr.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18960) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA18958 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 02:29:31 GMT From: HungChang_at_BLDG2@ca.slr.com Received: from relay2.smtp.psi.net (relay2.smtp.psi.net [38.8.188.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA19653 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:29:31 -0800 Received: from dns.slr.com by relay2.smtp.psi.net (8.8.3/SMI-5.4-PSI) id VAA09965; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 21:29:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ca.slr.com ([158.116.9.16]) by dns.slr.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA15595; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:30:10 -0800 Received: from ccMail by ca.slr.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA857442089; Mon, 03 Mar 97 18:28:01 PST Date: Mon, 03 Mar 97 18:28:01 PST Message-Id: <9702038574.AA857442089@ca.slr.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Upper body delays (was Unusual body surfaces?) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I wrote: > Illogical argument. Does that mean "Football" should only be played > with your feet? Scott wrote: >Well, um, YES! Football is played with your feet. There is a big >tournament that you may have heard of, they get over 36 BILLION viewers >worldwide, and it is called the "World Cup"... maybe you have heard of it? >Um, urgh, unless you are an american, then they play some bastardized >throwing game and they call it "Football". Thanks Scott! You example is even better. "Futbol" aka Soccer is played with your feet..... as well as your head, chest, knees, etc. My point is that it does not make any sense to base the rules of your game on the "name" of the game. Hung From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 4 15:28:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA21298 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:27:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA21294 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:27:58 GMT Received: from stoler@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (21291) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA21289 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:27:57 GMT Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA23827 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 07:28:00 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA14904 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 09:27:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from lax-ca20-02.ix.netcom.com(204.31.253.66) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma014888; Tue Mar 4 09:27:36 1997 Received: by WHATEVER with Microsoft Mail id <01BC286D.A6AAD0D0@WHATEVER>; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 07:28:27 -0800 Message-ID: <01BC286D.A6AAD0D0@WHATEVER> From: Michael Stoler To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] How was freestyle judged before the Add system was introduced? Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 07:28:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org When was the Add system introduced? How was freestyle judged before that? -Rex From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 4 16:18:20 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA21471 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 16:18:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA21467 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 16:18:06 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (21464) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA21462 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 16:18:04 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA24014 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:18:07 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA07084 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 10:18:05 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] How was freestyle judged before the Add system was introduced? Message-Id: <000000124612940337134@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 10:18:54 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.7.3 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org (Freestyle Listserve) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Mar 4, 1997, 3:28:25 PM GMT Michael Stoler wrote: >When was the Add system introduced? I think it was '86 or '87 - my memory is a bit fuzzy on that. I started competing in '84, and the add system didn't exist then. Over the next couple of years, Kenny, Reed Gray, and a few others developed a system for measuring trick difficulty. I'm pretty sure it was formally introduced into the Worlds judging system by '87. It was introduced before I took my year off to go to Hawaii - when was that?!? Gawsh, time flies when you're having fun, eh? >How was freestyle judged before that? Before the addition of adds and add ratios to competition judging, it was either a simple ranking system, or maybe a "scale of 1 to 10" system, with judge's scores being averaged. Just to be a turd and point this out, freestyle competition isn't and has never been judged solely on the add system. The popular freestyle culture just makes it seem that way. Now the Worlds judging system consists of: 1/6 add count and add ratio 1/6 drops 1/3 composition (which measures the number of unique moves based on add components) 1/3 presentation (subjectively determined scores in various categories) Even with add counting, the composition was still subjectively scored until around '90 or '91 - again, my memory is fuzzy on this. It is amazing which details stick and which don't. I remember a specific incident of scoring composition the "old way" and being chided for that by Reed, but now I can't remember what year it was. Of course, with the popularization of BAP, adds and add ratios is just about all anybody talks about these days. Since freestyle is, well, freestyle, it is really up to each individual to determine what it is, whether high adds and difficult moves, rhythm to music, high fliers and crazy spins, or some combination of those or others with possibly some measure of consistency or control thrown in, or thrown out. If anyone has more specific information about the dates, feel free to correct me :) Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 4 20:41:30 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA22373 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:41:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA22369 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:41:10 GMT Received: from nbpayne@osprey.smcm.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (22366) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA22364 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:41:09 GMT Received: from osprey.smcm.edu (osprey.smcm.edu [138.78.1.14]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA25530 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 12:41:10 -0800 Received: from smcm-Message_Server by osprey.smcm.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 04 Mar 1997 15:41:58 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 15:41:33 -0500 From: Neil Payne To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Yeah UPenn! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org 'Stylers, The review of the shred has already been done well... I just want to add a quick message to publicly thank UPenn from the Dragonflies. This was quite a nice gathering from the squash courts to the house 'circus room' of juggling and late night kicking, to the campus green and being blown back into the squash courts. All of us that came up were extrememly inspired. We made plans for regular weekly sessions on campus. I look forward to the East Coast tourney and the possibility of another freestyle gathering. Thanks UPenn! And thanks to everyone who made the trip what it was! You are awesome. Take care, Neil St. Mary's College Dragonflies From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 5 01:35:05 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA23476 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:34:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA23472 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:34:57 GMT Received: from april@bayou.uh.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (23469) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA23467 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:34:56 GMT Received: from Bayou.UH.EDU (Bayou.UH.EDU [129.7.1.7]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA27124 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 17:34:51 -0800 Received: from Sharber.uh.edu (SIP-16688.Public-Dialups.UH.EDU [129.7.65.48]) by Bayou.UH.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA24904 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:34:31 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:34:31 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199703050134.TAA24904@Bayou.UH.EDU> X-Sender: april@bayou.uh.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org From: april@bayou.uh.edu (April Sharber) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Upper body delays (was Unusual body surfaces?) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org My point is >that it does not make any sense to base the rules of your game on the >"name" of the game. > You got it all wrong...The name of the game is based on the rules not the other way around. You kick the bag with your feet, hence the name footbag, not "we called it footbag so I guess we gotta kick it with our feet." Later, Dan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 5 03:12:57 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA23866 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:11:41 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA23862 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:11:39 GMT Received: from shahrayar@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (23859) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA23857 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:11:38 GMT From: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com Received: from emout11.mail.aol.com (emout11.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.26]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA27446 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:11:37 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout11.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id WAA15405 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:11:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:11:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970304221134_-870283467@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Add Question Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have a question about the stomp: is it an add or not? If you do a stomping double-legover, is it three adds or four? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 5 05:48:59 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA24331 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 05:48:58 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA24327 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 05:48:57 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24324) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA24322 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 05:48:56 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA28174 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:48:57 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA28606; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:48:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:48:52 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Add Question In-Reply-To: <970304221134_-870283467@emout11.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 4 Mar 1997 SHAHRAYAR@aol.com wrote: > I have a question about the stomp: is it an add or not? If you do a stomping > double-legover, is it three adds or four? No, you don't get an add for stomping moves. I think there should be an add since it looks so cool. Other cool stomping moves include: Stomping paradon, stomping paradon swirl. I'm sure there are lots more. Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 5 14:03:49 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA25622 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:03:47 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA25618 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:03:44 GMT From: delee@uism.bu.edu Received: from delee@uism.bu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (25615) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA25613 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:03:43 GMT Received: from BU.EDU (BU.EDU [128.197.27.7]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA30518 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 06:03:44 -0800 Received: from uism.bu.edu (UISM-OUT.BU.EDU [128.197.93.52]) by BU.EDU (8.6.13/) with SMTP id JAA08700 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 09:03:35 -0500 Received: from ccMail by uism.bu.edu (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA857581391; Wed, 05 Mar 97 08:59:24 EST Date: Wed, 05 Mar 97 08:59:24 EST Message-Id: <9702058575.AA857581391@uism.bu.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Add Question Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org what exactly makes the difference between a 'stomping' double-legover and a regular one? and another question- what is the correct name for a blur that is set with a pogo set? is it a pogo blur or pogo paradox mirage? _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: [freestyle] Add Question From: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com at SMTPOUT Date: 3/4/97 10:17 PM I have a question about the stomp: is it an add or not? If you do a stomping double-legover, is it three adds or four? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 6 01:24:31 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA27971 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 01:24:28 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA27967 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 01:24:27 GMT Received: from tuanvu@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (27964) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA27962 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 01:24:26 GMT Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [205.252.116.102]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA00828 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 17:24:25 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as34s71.erols.com [207.172.117.239]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA10118 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 20:24:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <331E1F0D.3375@erols.com> Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 20:34:05 -0500 From: TU HUGE Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] NEW FREESTYLE TAPES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all freestylers and wantabees, I would like to announce two new tapes for anyone who would like to see some updated footage from 1996-1997. 1. A NEW SHRED TAPE!!!!!!!!! This new tape includes highlights from the World Championships 1996 in Montreal, the Thanksgiving Jam in San Francisco, and the Heart of Freestyle tourney 1997! There are some of the newest and sickest combos ever hit!!!!! Truly a most for every freestyle lover. 2. The 1996 World Footbag Championship Freestyle Routines. Did you actually want to see the routines of the World Championships rather than read about? Well this tape is a 2-hour fest of some of the greatest routines at worlds. Relive the moments of last years best routines. Selected Routines from all rounds and of every category. It's a great chance for some of you who haven't seen actually competiton yet. Each Tape is $15 US and if you buy both, it's only $25. Also, back issue video of some of last years freestyle competition at several tournaments around the country are available. Just call or e-mail me if you are intreasted: Tu Vu (703)503-7231 tuanvu@erols.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 6 08:25:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA29428 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 08:25:27 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA29424 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 08:25:25 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (29421) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA29419 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 08:25:24 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA02536 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:25:27 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DAI18673; Thu, 06 Mar 1997 03:23:19 EST To: delee@uism.bu.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 02:52:40 PST Subject: [freestyle] Stomping Double legover (was:Add Question) Message-ID: <19970306.032017.3630.132.dervish@juno.com> References: <9702058575.AA857581391@uism.bu.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,12,16-22 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >what exactly makes the difference between a 'stomping' double-legover >and a regular one? > >and another question- what is the correct name for a blur that is set >with a pogo set? is it a pogo blur or pogo paradox mirage? > I want to answer this one first, b/c of the length of the second. pogo paradox mirage. A stomping double legover was originally defined to me as being like a double legover, except after the set, the setting leg is planted; you would jump off both legs, and here's where the discrepancy lies. Both feet go *soles over* the bag. The way I see it being done is more like standard double legover, with the legs passing in front of the footbag. Generally, one could almost call it symposium if not for the set foot being planted. Of course, it isn't _really_ neccessary, is it? (This was my hint for open discourse) JP "English? No problem. Computers? Gimme a break!!" -me in a drunken stupor. : -) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 10 04:52:56 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA00212 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:52:44 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA00171 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:52:39 GMT Received: from tuanvu@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (164) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA00159 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:52:37 GMT Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [205.252.116.102]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA21070 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 06:46:21 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as22s14.erols.com [207.172.120.14]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA15021 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 09:46:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <33217E5B.440E@erols.com> Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 09:57:31 -0500 From: TU HUGE Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] HOT NEW FREESTYLE TAPES!!!!!!! References: <3320B4AA.340@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org TU HUGE wrote: ATTENTION ALL FREESTYLERS!!! I would like to announce that there are 2 NEW freestyle tapes for release with current footage from 1996-1997! 1. A BRAND NEW SHRED TAPE!!! This new tape includes SHRED highlights from the World Footbag Championships 1996 in Montreal, the Thanksgiving Jam in San Francisco, and the Heart of Freestyle Tournament 1997! Brand NEW SHRED of the SICKEST COMBOS EVER HIT!!!! Truly a MUST for every freestyler or freestyler wannabee. 2. The 1996 World Footbag Championship Freestyle Routines. Did you want to actually see the routines of the World Championships rather than read about them? Well this tape is a 2-hour styln' fest that showcases some of the greatest routines from the World Championships. Relive the moments of last years best routines. It includes selected routines from all rounds and of every category in the freestyle competiton. It's a great chance for some of you who haven't seen actually competiton yet. A great way to SKOOL routines! Each tape is $15 US or you can get both tapes for only $25 US!!! Just send a check or money order to: Tuan Vu 4533 California Street San Francisco, CA 94118 And YES, it includes shipping and handling with 2-DAY Priority Mail!!! If you have any questions contact: Tuan Vu (415) 668-8146 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 10 04:52:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA00238 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:52:49 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA00224 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:52:45 GMT Received: from tuanvu@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (204) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA00192 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:52:41 GMT Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [205.252.116.102]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA15194 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:26:00 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as21s04.erols.com [207.172.121.172]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA16363 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:25:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3320B4AA.340@erols.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 19:36:58 -0500 From: TU HUGE Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] HOT NEW FREESTYLE TAPES!!!!!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ATTENTION ALL FREESTYLERS!!! I would like to announce that there are 2 NEW freestyle tapes for release with current footage from 1996-1997! 1. A BRAND NEW SHRED TAPE!!! This new tape includes SHRED highlights from the World Footbag Championships 1996 in Montreal, the Thanksgiving Jam in San Francisco, and the Heart of Freestyle Tournament 1997! Brand NEW SHRED of the SICKEST COMBOS EVER HIT!!!! Truly a MUST for every freestyler or freestyler wannabee. 2. The 1996 World Footbag Championship Freestyle Routines. Did you want to actually see the routines of the World Championships rather than read about them? Well this tape is a 2-hour styln' fest that showcases some of the greatest routines from the World Championships. Relive the moments of last years best routines. It includes selected routines from all rounds and of every category in the freestyle competiton. It's a great chance for some of you who haven't seen actually competiton yet. A great way to SKOOL routines! Each tape is $15 US or you can get both tapes for only $25 US!!! Just send a check or money order to: Tuan Vu 4533 California Street San Francisco, CA 94118 And YES, it includes shipping and handling with 2-DAY Priority Mail!!! If you have any questions contact: Tuan Vu (415) 668-8146 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 10 03:25:37 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA01968 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 03:25:28 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA01964 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 03:25:26 GMT Received: from eric@javaconnection.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1961) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA01959 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 03:25:26 GMT Received: from sol.javaconnection.com (sol.javaconnection.com [207.155.18.98]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA04496 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 19:25:27 -0800 Received: from pc4.javaconnection.com ([207.155.18.102]) by sol.javaconnection.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA14936 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 18:42:47 -0800 Message-ID: <33237EB0.4AA5@javaconnection.com> Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 19:23:28 -0800 From: eric windsor Reply-To: eric@javaconnection.com Organization: user@JavaConnection X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] RE: NEW FREESTYLE TAPES Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was just wondering if anyone has seen the new shread tape TUAN VU put together. I am mainly concerned with the first tape mentioned Did he edit out the not so good runs like on raw shread. Is it just B.A.P? Im sure it is a kick ass shread tape, but i was just wondering about the facts. eric. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 10 05:11:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA02377 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 05:11:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA02372 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 05:11:09 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2369) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA02367 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 05:11:09 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA04964 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 21:11:10 -0800 Received: from p1-97.top.net by mailjay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA13488; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 23:11:08 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970309231319.0079b100@bluejay.creighton.edu> X-Sender: swingert@bluejay.creighton.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 beta 4 (32) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 23:13:21 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Sean Wingert Subject: [freestyle] Move Query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Has anyone every tried this: Clipper--> Jump --> Same Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Clipper Has anyone tried it without the jump? -Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 10 06:23:54 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA02577 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 06:23:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA02573 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 06:23:50 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2570) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA02568 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 06:23:50 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA05274 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 22:23:53 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id BMB05560; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 01:23:42 EST To: swingert@creighton.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 01:20:55 PST Subject: [freestyle] That ain't no move.(was: Move Query) Message-ID: <19970310.012055.17694.2.dervish@juno.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970309231319.0079b100@bluejay.creighton.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3,5-8,10,15,19,21-27 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 09 Mar 1997 23:13:21 -0600 Sean Wingert writes: >Has anyone every tried this: > > Clipper--> Jump --> Same Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Clipper > > Has anyone tried it without the jump? > Sean, I hope you never hit this move. If you do, it means you need more hobbies. What you're describing (If I am seeing it right) is a combination of paradox blur and paradox whirl...or Paradox miraging, miraging (paradox)whirl. This is impossible. I'm not one to set limits, but you're talking about splitting a 3-dex move, alternating legs. I think you'd better work on nemesis while you're at it, buddy. Not. No way. Ain't gonna happen. Uh-uh. Ix-nay. Not a chance. You're dreaming. And if you _have_ hit it, put it on the internet for all to see. Hell, I'd rent time on nationwide tv during the superbowl to show the world how amazing you are. But while I'm thinking about it, a toe-set miraging whirl *would* be really cool: [toe]>[opp. in]>[opp. in]>[opp.clip] sorta toe blur with a clipper, only mildy ridiculous. JP -A little fish in a big pond From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 10 19:42:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA05167 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 19:41:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA05163 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 19:41:32 GMT Received: from tuanvu@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5160) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA05158 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 19:41:32 GMT Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [205.252.116.101]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA10550 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 11:41:39 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as19s14.erols.com [207.172.121.14]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA18371; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:41:32 -0500 Message-ID: <332465BC.4290@erols.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:49:16 -0500 From: TU HUGE Organization: Immediate Temporaries X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eric@javaconnection.com CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] RE: NEW FREESTYLE TAPES References: <33237EB0.4AA5@javaconnection.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org eric windsor wrote: > I was just wondering if anyone has seen the new shread tape TUAN VU > put > together. I am mainly concerned with the first tape mentioned > Did he edit out the not so good runs like on raw shread. YEP! > Is it just B.A.P? NOPE! My brother feels, if someone wheels off a phat combo that's BAP worthy they shouldn't be exculded just because they are not in it. > Im sure it is a kick ass shread tape, but i was just wondering about > >the facts. I'm sure you'll enjoy it. It's the ONLY tape I watch anymore. The very beginnig, Rippin pulls out a REALLY sick combo that's at least 70 ADDS! 2 Huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 10 23:29:29 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA06259 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:29:06 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA06255 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:29:04 GMT Received: from kenned57@pilot.msu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6252) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA06250 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:29:03 GMT Received: from pilot21.cl.msu.edu (pilot21.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.31]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA00416 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:28:43 -0800 Received: (kenned57@localhost) by pilot21.cl.msu.edu (8.7.5/MSU-2.10) id RAA47810; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:45:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199703102245.RAA47810@pilot21.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] That ain't no move.(was: Move Query) To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:45:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Cameron Dean Kennedy" In-Reply-To: <19970310.012055.17694.2.dervish@juno.com> from "Josh Penney" at Mar 10, 97 01:20:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i guess that i just quite understand the: Clipper--> Jump --> Same Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Clipper notation for discribing moves. i read this move as a eggbeater butterfly,or reverse mirage, reverse mirage, butterfly, no paradox to it. does the out refer to a dexterity done outside in? also i think that using and for the setting and support foot respectively would be easier to follow than and . $0.02 cameron ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Sun, 09 Mar 1997 23:13:21 -0600 Sean Wingert > writes: > >Has anyone every tried this: > > > > Clipper--> Jump --> Same Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. > Clipper > > > > Has anyone tried it without the jump? > > > Sean, I hope you never hit this move. If you do, it means you need more > hobbies. > What you're describing (If I am seeing it right) is a combination of > paradox blur and paradox whirl...or Paradox miraging, miraging > (paradox)whirl. This is impossible. I'm not one to set limits, but you're talk ing about splitting a 3-dex move, alternating legs. I think you'd > better work on nemesis while you're at it, buddy. > Not. No way. Ain't gonna happen. Uh-uh. Ix-nay. Not a chance. You're > dreaming. And if you _have_ hit it, put it on the internet for all to > see. Hell, I'd rent time on nationwide tv during the superbowl to show > the world how amazing you are. > But while I'm thinking about it, a toe-set miraging whirl *would* be > really cool: > [toe]>[opp. in]>[opp. in]>[opp.clip] > sorta toe blur with a clipper, only mildy ridiculous. > > > JP > -A little fish in a big pond > -- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 07:49:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA08177 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 07:49:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA08173 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 07:49:07 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8170) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA08168 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 07:49:07 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA03787 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:48:50 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id CYV09486; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 02:47:43 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 02:30:37 PST Subject: [freestyle] That ain't no move. Message-ID: <19970311.024514.4678.3.dervish@juno.com> References: <199703102245.RAA47810@pilot21.cl.msu.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-3,5,7-13,15,18,22,25-27,30-35 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >i guess that i just quite understand the: > Clipper--> Jump --> Same Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp.Clipper >notation for discribing moves. i read this move as a eggbeater >butterfly,or reverse mirage, reverse mirage, butterfly, no paradox to it. >does the out refer to a dexterity done outside in? also i think that using > and for the setting and support foot respectively would be >easier to follow than and . > The terminology Sean is using is a little ambiguous, Cameron. What does he mean by "jump"? Is he implying pogo? Then the move becomes worse - pogo paradox reverse mirage with a legbeater at the end. Truly impossible and unforgivable with gravity as a real factor.. Maybe if we send a sipa to NASA they'll send it up and we can see it on the real... Or, maybe it's just part of the 1st dexterity, to smooth out the motion (No pun intended, Scott). Then it becomes paradox blizzard with butterfly, surely. Something worth working on, if anyone wants to... Paul Munger, that's got you name all over it. : ) Yes you are correct as to the dexterity, but the notation becomes confusing in a move with multiple shifts and plants, ie ripwalk: When I switch legs do I have to switch terminology? as is: clip>op in > op out> clip as you portend :clip>sup. in > set out> sup clip? I'm confused by this. Saying and are easier because they relate to each other, and not the movement. I think pogo voodoo in this fashion would be a nightmare, and spinning moves too. I don't know for sure... Sean? What do you make of this mad weave? JP "Lost in a barrel of monkeys on the Planet Of the Apes." From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 14:29:14 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA09209 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:28:34 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA09205 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:28:32 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9202) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA09200 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:28:32 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA06097 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 06:28:17 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA26977 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:28:09 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] That ain't no move. Message-Id: <000000126972940935359@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:29:19 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.7.3 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org (Freestyle Listserve) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Mar 11, 1997, 10:30:37 AM GMT Josh Penney wrote: >.... Saying and are easier because they >relate to each other, and not the movement. I've used a very similar notation system for years, except my system has always specified left and right, and clockwise and ccw for spins. This is necessary for analyzing a string of moves for uniqueness. That "jump" notation is confusing; I think it is meant to imply a 'slur' (front end mirage that actually carries the bag under the mirage leg rather than setting it and doing a true dexterity) which, because of timing and mechanics, makes the move easier than doing it without that front-end-quasi-mirage. If so, my slightly more cryptic notation would be: L xb ins Dl (set) -> R IO -> L IO (pdx) -> R IO -> L IO -> R xb ins Dl Which, agreeing with Josh, is a totally ludicrous move. A 7-add, 4-opposing dexterity move? Good grief, the front-end barrage, back-end barfly is hard enough. There are some sick minds out there! Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 17:44:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA09933 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:44:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA09929 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:44:50 GMT Received: from kenned57@pilot.msu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9926) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA09924 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:44:49 GMT Received: from pilot06.cl.msu.edu (pilot06.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.16]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA07298 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:44:37 -0800 Received: (kenned57@localhost) by pilot06.cl.msu.edu (8.7.5/MSU-2.10) id MAA69522; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:44:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199703111744.MAA69522@pilot06.cl.msu.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Re:that impossible move To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:44:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Cameron Dean Kennedy" In-Reply-To: <000000126972940935359@mlerf.org> from "Derrick Fogle, MLERF" at Mar 11, 97 08:29:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derrick,i like your notation,very easy to follow, but i don't yet understand how all of the outside in dex's got transformed into inside outs, even if the was meant to imply a 'slur'. Clipper--> Jump --> Same Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp.Clipper became L xb ins Dl (set) -> R IO -> L IO (pdx) -> R IO -> L IO -> R xb ins Dl pardon my ignorance cameron ---------- > I've used a very similar notation system for years, except my system has alway s specified left and right, and clockwise and ccw for spins. This is necessary f or analyzing a string of moves for uniqueness. > > That "jump" notation is confusing; I think it is meant to imply a 'slur' (fron t end mirage that actually carries the bag under the mirage leg rather than sett ing it and doing a true dexterity) which, because of timing and mechanics, makes the move easier than doing it without that front-end-quasi-mirage. > > If so, my slightly more cryptic notation would be: > > L xb ins Dl (set) -> R IO -> L IO (pdx) -> R IO -> L IO -> R xb ins Dl ------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 17:50:39 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA09958 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:50:38 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA09954 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:50:38 GMT Received: from kuchma@golden.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9951) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA09949 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:50:37 GMT Received: from golden.net (golden.org [199.166.210.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA07386 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:50:50 -0800 Received: from [207.6.168.60] (cisco1-60.golden.net [207.6.168.60]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA14033; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:47:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:06:56 -0500 To: TU HUGE From: kuchma@golden.net (Mike Kuchma) Subject: [freestyle] Selling at Funtastiks? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Tu! This is probably a really stupid question, but will there be a place to purchase the new tape at the Funtastik labour day tournament? I bought the old Raw Shred at the Gettysburg location and I was very impressed. Thanks -- Kuch From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 18:29:41 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA10111 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:29:40 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA10107 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:29:39 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10104) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA10102 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:29:39 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA07651 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:29:27 -0800 Received: from [17.255.70.146] ([17.255.70.146]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA23196; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:21:13 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:28:55 -0800 To: kuchma@golden.net (Mike Kuchma) From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Selling at Funtastiks? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:06 AM -0800 3/11/97, Mike Kuchma wrote: >This is probably a really stupid question, but will there be a place to >purchase the new tape at the Funtastik labour day tournament? I bought the >old Raw Shred at the Gettysburg location and I was very impressed. Thanks Mike (and anyone else confused :-))... What Tu's advertising is not a "professional" tape; it's just something he (and his brother) are doing as a service to players. They videotape at events and compile stuff and make copies for people and mail them to them on request. They charge a little bit of money to recover their costs and to keep everyone from asking them for copies. By contrast, "Raw Shred" was a pretty serious production involving many dollars and hours, editing equipment, etc.., and is sold through the WFA and other places. (The tape(s) Tu is referring to are just compilations put together using a VCR and dubbed from Hi-8 to VHS by hand.) Just to clarify, there is no "Raw Shred II" (yet). :-) But hopefully Paul will decide to do another. :-) (As for availability of Tu's tapes at Funtastik... If you want a copy, e-mail Tu and he will either mail you a copy in the US mail or you can ask him to bring one to Funtastik. But by then, there'll be a lot more interesting stuff since it will be after Western Regionals and Worlds. There are also at least two other major east-coast tournaments between now and then. Hopefully you can make it to one of them!) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 19:27:37 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA10351 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:26:21 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA10347 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:26:20 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10343) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA10341 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:26:19 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA08115 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:26:05 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06619 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:26:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re:that impossible move Message-Id: <000000127162940953231@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:27:11 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.7.3 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Mar 11, 1997, 5:44:24 PM GMT Cameron Dean Kennedy wrote: >how all of the outside in dex's got transformed into inside outs, even >Clipper--> Jump --> Same Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp. Out --> Opp.Clipper >L xb ins Dl (set) -> R IO -> L IO (pdx) -> R IO -> L IO -> R xb ins Dl This drives me nuts, too. My own "standard" notation for dexterity direction originally referenced the bag's position to the leg; thus an "IO" dexterity would be a butterfly or reverse-mirage style dexterity, where the bag started "Inside" and ended up "Outside," and an "OI" dexterity was the mirage/whirl type. Everyone else, however, seemed to use the notation to infer the leg's position to the bag (or really, to what? that's why I used the opposite relationship), where the leg started "Inside" and ended up on the "Outside." So I switched to that notation, where an IO is a mirage/whirl type dex, and an OI is a butterfly/reverse-mirage type dex. In the original notation, I figured the "Out" part was referring to where the dexterity ended up. Also, in Josh's original post, he mentioned mirage and whirl. That's why I used "IO" for the dex direction; I thought I was specifying mirage/whirl dexterities. I though everyone was pretty settled on this, but now I think at least I'm still confused. This has been happening alot lately. Ever since that little Sh*t Leonard Griswell almost hit mobius in front of me, well, I've been a bit preoccupied. It certainly looks a bit cryptic on the face of it, but I had a larger reason. My structure and methodology used consistent 1, 2, and 3 letter abbreviations for contacts surfaces, types, sides, dexterity elements, and body elements so that when you typed the stuff into a record in a database, calculations could parse out the components and "score" the move. This was done in part with an eye on creating a chorded-keyboard iterpreter so one skilled person could very quickly and accurately input "as it happens" data, and have a database score all the composition components of a freestyle routine, including adds, contact ratio, and unique move distribution in each category. It was a nice idea, but the project never got past the creation of the interpreter database. Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 19:55:20 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA10453 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:54:04 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA10449 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:54:04 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10446) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA10444 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:54:03 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA08356 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:53:51 -0800 Received: from [17.255.70.146] ([17.255.70.146]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA24239 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:45:54 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000000127162940953231@mlerf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:53:34 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Notation (was Re: that impossible move) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:27 AM -0800 3/11/97, Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: >I though everyone was pretty settled on this, but now I think at least I'm >still confused. That's why I've been advocating a CONSISTENT notation on this list; if everyone keeps making up their own terms and then debating the mechanics of moves based on misconceptions of what people are saying, it's just a waste of everyone's time. I like Ben Job's notation as a reasonable point of departure for discussing freestyle on this list. We've been using it but it seems to have degraded to the point that everyone is adding their own changes. Please re-read the description of the notation, which I'm including at the end of this message. And if someone posts a message and it doesn't make sense, write them directly to clarify instead of assuming you know what they're talking about. Thanks. I do not want to change the meanings of things like "in-out" or "op-same". Let's leave them the way they are in Ben's message below. The system is entirely arbitrary -- one way is not better than another. But if we don't agree on a way to do it, we'll never understand each other. Steve ----- begin included message from Ben Job (no longer online): Originally-From: BJ (now job@benji.colorado.edu) Original-Subject: By the Way, Not the Name Originally-To: footbag@footbag.org Original-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 02:16:38 -0700 (MST) Here's some food for thought... Feedback is welcome, particularly in regard to the names in the list. Try the "complete" list... Benjamin Job A List By the Way This paper presents a notation for describing footbag tricks and representing the relationships that exist between them. Additionally, it presents the means for generating a comprehensive list of possible variations. Break a trick down. You get a series of movements preceeded by a set and followed by a catch (or kick). The set and catch options are few and easily listable. The series of movements, though allowing of more variation, are similarly listable. Represented as a formula, this information provides us with the means to logically generate trick variations. As the precision of the formula increases, that is, as more of the finite number of basic movements are incorperated into the formula, we approach the specification of every trick possible. Consider the following: (toe | clip) > [(same | op)(in | out)dexterity]* > (same | op)(toe | clip) The notation is as follows: "Same" and "op" are always relative to the leg previously refered to. "In" and "out" mean "inside" and "outside", respec- tively. "|" is equiv. to "choice" ("or"). "[ ]" means "enclosed dex is optional". ">" is equiv. to "followed by". "*" means the preceding term can occur/re-occur 0 or more times. From this simple formula, most non-modified leg dexterities can be derived. Because of the structure of the formula, a "truth table" of moves can be gen- erated, leaving no move undiscovered (ex., see list). Some examples: clip > op clip Clipper to Clipper toe > op in dex > op toe Mirage clip > same in dex > op out dex > same toe Paradox Dbl Legover clip > op in dex > same in dex > op out dex > same toe Flurry How far can we go? Only slight modifications are needed to account for other modifiers and their associated possibilities. For example, Pogo, Symposium, Spinning, ang Gyro moves can be formed by adding "(no plant while)" and "(forward | backward)spin". The formula, (toe | clip) > [(no plant while)] [(same | op)(in | out)dexterity | (for | back)spin]* > (same | op)(toe | clip) describes variations such as: clip > (no plant while) op in dex > op in dex > (no plant while) op in dex > op toe Pogo Paradox Symposium Blur The set and catch options can be filled in with all the choices: inside, outside, knee, the unsual surfaces. What elements that may comprise a trick have yet to be accounted for? Just a few: stomping ["(both legs plant)"], blind, hop-over, carry (Wrap), duck, dive, jumping/flying, Swirl/Twirl cross- body dex, swing (Pendulum, Rake). Not many other types of primitive movements exist. Since the acceptable tricks are just combinations of these primitives; and since each primitive may be easily implemented within the formula; the the possibility of a master formula for all tricks becomes complete. Note: "same", "op" and "no plant" are relative to the leg previously refered to. Examples: clip > op in dex > op out dex > op clip Ripwalk toe > same out dex > same out dex > op clip Double Over Down toe > op out dex > op out dex > same toe Eggbeater toe > (no plant while) > op in dex > op toe Symposium Mirage toe > (no plant while) > op in dex > op clip Symposium Whirl clip > same in dex > op in dex > op toe Pdx Blur clip > same out dex > same out dex > op clip Barfly clip > op in dex > same in dex > same toe Double Pickup clip > op in dex > (no plant while) op out dex > op clip Dada Curve clip > (back)spin > same in dex > op out dex > op clip Gyro Ripwalk From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 20:28:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA10633 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:27:05 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA10629 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:27:03 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10626) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA10624 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:27:03 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA08618 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:26:51 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09718 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:26:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Notation (was Re: that impossible move) Message-Id: <000000127222940956879@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:27:59 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.7.3 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Mar 11, 1997, 7:53:34 PM GMT Steve Goldberg wrote: >That's why I've been advocating a CONSISTENT notation on this list; if Four points, directed towards Steve, but just because I'm in a chatty mood today, everyone gets to hear them: 1) I did, in fact, get myself turned around somewhere on what "In" and "Out" are supposed to imply. According to Ben's original post, "In" means mirage whirl dexterity, and "Out" means butterfly/reverse-mirage dexterity. Note that this is never actually stated, but implied once some examples are given. I'll try to remember better in the future. 2) I never meant to derail Ben's description system; indeed, it's only lack is to define sides, which is totally irrelevant for most discussions on the list. 3) For the benefit of someone out there that might be interested in any background or potential ideas for evolution of freestyle judging, I got a little chatty and tried to explain why I had some other system. 4) "Forward" and "Backward" seem like linear motion descriptors, not rotational descriptors. There is one example in the post that inferrs that torque uses "forward" spin, mobius uses "backward" spin. Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 20:50:38 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA10745 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:49:18 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA10741 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:49:17 GMT Received: from the_sock@ihug.co.nz () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10738) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA10736 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:49:17 GMT Received: from ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.4]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA08794 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:49:04 -0800 Received: from port280-Auck.ihug.co.nz (port280-Auck.ihug.co.nz [202.49.255.26]) by ihug.co.nz (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA13439 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:52:10 +1300 (NZDT) Received: by port280-Auck.ihug.co.nz with Microsoft Mail id <01BC2ECA.A1A61960@port280-Auck.ihug.co.nz>; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:49:08 +1300 Message-ID: <01BC2ECA.A1A61960@port280-Auck.ihug.co.nz> From: The Sock To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Notation (was Re: that impossible move) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:42:38 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I say we stick to Jobs notation, coz I wont wanna re-enter 200 Moves on = my list :) BTW, can someone tell me which (same leg) triple dexterity moves have = been hit? So far I have heard of Triage (toe > same in out > same in out = > same in out > op toe... and triple around the world (in bare feet or = something)... anyone hit triple mirage? :) any 4 Dexs been hit yet?=20 Pixie-Paradon-Swirl perhaps? Later From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 23:30:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11537 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:29:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11533 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:29:10 GMT Received: from shahrayar@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11530) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA11528 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:29:10 GMT From: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com Received: from emout08.mail.aol.com (emout08.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA10313 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:29:28 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout08.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id SAA17888 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:29:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:29:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970311182912_-1338685529@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Notation (was Re: that impossible move) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org say we stick to Jobs notation, coz I wont wanna re-enter 200 Moves on my list :) BTW, can someone tell me which (same leg) triple dexterity moves have been hit? So far I have heard of Triage (toe > same in out > same in out > same in out > op toe... and triple around the world (in bare feet or something)... anyone hit triple mirage? :) any 4 Dexs been hit yet? Pixie-Paradon-Swirl perhaps? Later <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I have only seen one of the moves you are describing, and the is the triple around the world. Tuan Vu can hit that (in his bare feet), I'm not sure if we'll a four dexterity move, well, not from me anyway... From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 23:30:50 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11548 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:29:27 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11544 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:29:26 GMT Received: from shahrayar@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11541) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA11539 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:29:26 GMT From: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com (emout14.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.40]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA10326 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:29:45 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id SAA19359 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:29:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:29:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970311182927_-1706885208@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Notation (was Re: that impossible move) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org BTW, can someone tell me which (same leg) triple dexterity moves have been hit? So far I have heard of Triage (toe > same in out > same in out > same in out > op toe... and triple around the world (in bare feet or something)... anyone hit triple mirage? :) any 4 Dexs been hit yet? Pixie-Paradon-Swirl perhaps? Later <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I have only seen one of the moves you are describing, and the is the triple around the world. Tuan Vu can hit that (in his bare feet), I'm not sure if we'll a four dexterity move, well, not from me anyway... From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 23:41:29 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11617 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:41:28 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11613 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:41:27 GMT Received: from shahrayar@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11610) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA11608 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:41:27 GMT From: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com Received: from emout25.mail.aol.com (emout25.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.130]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA10446 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:41:47 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout25.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id SAA14135 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:41:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:41:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970311183214_-1204602065@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Notation (was Re: that impossible move) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org BTW, can someone tell me which (same leg) triple dexterity moves have been hit? So far I have heard of Triage (toe > same in out > same in out > same in out > op toe... and triple around the world (in bare feet or something)... anyone hit triple mirage? :) any 4 Dexs been hit yet? Pixie-Paradon-Swirl perhaps? Later <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I have only seen one of the moves you are describing, and the is the triple around the world. Tuan Vu can hit that (in his bare feet), I'm not sure if we'll a four dexterity move, well, not from me anyway... From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 11 23:51:49 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11695 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:51:49 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11691 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:51:48 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11688) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA11686 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:51:47 GMT Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA10554 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:51:37 -0800 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3/SAS.03) id SAA16168; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:51:11 -0500 (EST) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Message-Id: <199703112351.SAA16168@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Notation (was Re: that impossible move) To: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:51:11 -0500 (EST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <970311183214_-1204602065@emout12.mail.aol.com> from "SHAHRAYAR@aol.com" at Mar 11, 97 06:41:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > BTW, can someone tell me which (same leg) triple dexterity moves have been > hit? So far I have heard of Triage (toe > same in out > same in out > same in > out > op toe... and triple around the world (in bare feet or something)... > anyone hit triple mirage? :) any 4 Dexs been hit yet? > Pixie-Paradon-Swirl perhaps? No 4 dex's have been hit as of 96 (I'm fairly sure). Triple dex with one leg: triage from toe (Tuan Vu) triple around the world (has been hit in shoes) triple over down (I heard Dennis Jones hit this) blurry down double down (Genzu, Kenny, handfull of other) triple over osis (Some guy called Jubal came really close in front of me, but said he had actually hit it before. Steve, you know this guy right?) Other moves apart from that would have to be set from pixie (Unless something so far impossibly sick like triple mirage gets hit) Help me out if I forgot something. Later, Alex From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 12 00:37:01 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA11902 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:37:00 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA11898 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:36:58 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11895) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA11893 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:36:58 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA11049 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 16:36:46 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id TpG21646; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:25:22 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:09:39 PST Subject: [freestyle] Re:Notation Message-ID: <19970311.192213.13214.2.dervish@juno.com> References: <000000127222940956879@mlerf.org> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4-6,8-10,12,14-17 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:27:59 -0600 dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) writes: >On Tue, Mar 11, 1997, 7:53:34 PM GMT Steve Goldberg wrote: >>That's why I've been advocating a CONSISTENT notation on this list; if... > >4) "Forward" and "Backward" seem like linear motion descriptors, not >rotational descriptors. There is one example in the post that inferrs that >torque uses "forward" spin, mobius uses "backward" spin. I am hip to all of this, in complete agreement. However, there is still a gap or two: Kick sets, spins, inspin, ducks and dives. None of these are as of yet listed. Any ideas? JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 12 01:46:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA12136 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 01:46:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA12132 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 01:46:21 GMT Received: from poisnblood@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12129) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA12127 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 01:46:21 GMT From: Poisnblood@aol.com Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com (emout06.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.97]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA11682 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:46:40 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id UAA17650; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:46:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:46:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970311204635_2096646047@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: dervish@juno.com, swingert@creighton.edu cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] That ain't no move.(was: Move Query) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >In a message dated 97-03-10 01:28:56 EST, dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney)> >writes: > But while I'm thinking about it, a toe-set miraging whirl *would* be > really cool: > [toe]>[opp. in]>[opp. in]>[opp.clip] > sorta toe blur with a clipper, only mildy ridiculous. > JP > -A little fish in a big pond Thats real close to a move I was trying. (right toe--> left outside-in--> right inside-out -->left foot clipper). Has anyone hit that? It has a weird twist going from mirage to whirl. -Mike From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 12 02:12:26 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA12258 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 02:12:26 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA12254 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 02:12:24 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12251) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA12249 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 02:12:24 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA11890 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:12:14 -0800 Received: from p1-100.top.net by mailjay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA24709; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:12:12 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970311201421.0079ada0@bluejay.creighton.edu> X-Sender: swingert@bluejay.creighton.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 beta 4 (32) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:14:25 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Sean Wingert Subject: [freestyle] The "Impossible" Move Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org To resolve ambiguity from my posted move: 1. First of all, I can NOT hit it :-) 2. The "jump" WAS ambiguous and I didn't mean pogo (see #5). 3. I intended for the move to be a paradox blurriest in the air. 4. I also intended it to *look* like a paradox dada (which requires the "jump") but have an extra dex. on the 2nd dex foot. 5. With Jobs' notation, I meant: clip > same in dex > (no plant while) op out dex > same out dex > op clip Still, I am confused as to how Jobs' notation accounts for the BODY add implicit in a jump. That is crucial because this move would require leaving the ground with BOTH feet(thereby increasing the ADD value). Comments? Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 12 02:41:34 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA12339 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 02:41:29 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA12335 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 02:41:28 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12332) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA12330 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 02:41:28 GMT Received: from research.apple.com (research.apple.com [17.255.4.30]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA12160 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:41:48 -0800 Received: from [17.255.70.146] ([17.255.70.146]) by research.apple.com (8.7.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA28912; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:33:44 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970311201421.0079ada0@bluejay.creighton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:40:35 -0800 To: Sean Wingert From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] The "Impossible" Move Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 6:14 PM -0800 3/11/97, Sean Wingert wrote: >Still, I am confused as to how Jobs' notation accounts for the BODY add >implicit in a jump. Not an issue, since nobody uses adds anyway. Let's discuss how to hit the tricks and not what their add values are and we'll all get a lot farther. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 12 03:16:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA12561 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 03:15:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA12557 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 03:15:54 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12554) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA12552 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 03:15:54 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA12442 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:16:15 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id WxQ21646; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 22:10:44 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 21:59:21 PST Subject: [freestyle] Notation and The "Impossible" Move Message-ID: <19970311.220820.3382.2.dervish@juno.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970311201421.0079ada0@bluejay.creighton.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-5,7-12,14-18,23-24,29-33,35-37,39,41-43,49-54 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > 3. I intended for the move to be a paradox blurriest in the air. > 4. I also intended it to *look* like a paradox dada (which requires the > "jump") but have an extra dex. on the 2nd dex foot. > 5. With Jobs' notation, I meant: > > clip > same in dex > (no plant while) op out dex > same out dex > > op clip Okay.. I understand implicitly. I still think you're crazy. >Still, I am confused as to how Jobs' notation accounts for the BODY add >implicit in a jump. That is crucial because this move would require leaving >the ground with BOTH feet(thereby increasing the ADD value). >Comments? It doesn't. As Derrick told me, there are some moves which are the same, like Dada and Ripwalk. These are different moves, as we both know... just not unique from each other, since the add components are the same. [dex, dex, xbody, del] Therefore, using the Worlds' judging system for freestyle these two moves would be considered the same move. It also brings to mind the question of facilitating a (symposium) body add in paradox dada, but making it a 6add move would be ludicrous. Making paradox blurriest worth seven is unacceptable. At least to me. But I think I've mentioned before how the add system doesn't really rate difficulty, it measures qualifiers within categories. And I wanted to add something to this, thus the reprint: >4) "Forward" and "Backward" seem like linear motion descriptors, not >rotational descriptors. There is one example in the post that infers that >torque uses "forward" spin, mobius uses "backward" spin. I am hip to all of this, in complete agreement. However, there is still a gap or two: Kick sets, spins, inspin, ducks and dives. None of these are as of yet listed. We could say and and and , but: The other thing I didn't mention was swirls...I mean there are two kinds, right? There's from behind the bag, and in front of the bag. so it could possibly be listed as - like in hopover swirl and butterfly swirl and the dreaded whirling swirl, and then there's like we see in Scott Davidson's 'twirl' (patent pending). Of course, then we could talk about unusuals and we'd really start having some fun. JP "If I type 22 words a minute, how long did it take me to type all this?" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 12 05:33:43 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA13023 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 05:33:03 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA13019 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 05:33:02 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (13016) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA13014 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 05:33:02 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA13095 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 21:32:54 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id A\E21646; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:27:09 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:18:52 PST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Notation and The "Impossible" Move Message-ID: <19970312.002359.3382.6.dervish@juno.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970311201421.0079ada0@bluejay.creighton.edu> <19970311.220820.3382.2.dervish@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,3-6,8-17,19-23 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, do I ever make sense? I'd like to publish an apology and corrections. My wonderful excuse is that I couldn't see what I was writing from dilator drops, from an opthamologic exam. >>Comments? It doesn't account for the BODY add implicit in a jump, thereby *not* acutely describing the adds involced in a particular movement. >>4) "Forward" and "Backward" seem like linear motion descriptors, not >>rotational descriptors. There is one example in the post that infers >that >torque uses "forward" spin, mobius uses "backward" spin. > I am hip to all of this, in complete agreement. However, there is still a gap or two: Kick sets, spins, inspin, ducks and dives. None of these are as of yet listed BY THIS SYSTEM OF TERMINOLOGY. Sorry again. Yeesh, I don't know why I always think y'all have keen insight into my head... JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 12 15:39:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA14682 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:39:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA14678 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:39:07 GMT Received: from tuanvu@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (14675) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA14673 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:39:06 GMT Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [205.252.116.101]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA16380 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 07:39:02 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as8s62.erols.com [207.172.4.134]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA06924; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 10:39:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3326D02C.2E3D@erols.com> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 10:47:56 -0500 From: 2 HUGE Organization: HUGE PRODUCTIONS X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Notation (was Re: that impossible move) References: <970311182927_-1706885208@emout14.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jim McCoppin wrote: > BTW, can someone tell me which (same leg) triple dexterity moves have > been > hit? So far I have heard of Triage (toe > same in out > same in out > > same in > out > op toe... and triple around the world (in bare feet or > something)... > anyone hit triple mirage? Shults hits stepping down double. A clipper mirage/ and with the same foot do a double down. I'm close yet so far. 2 Huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 13 06:41:51 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA18542 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 06:41:47 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA18538 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 06:41:46 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18535) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA18533 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 06:41:46 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA22048 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 22:42:18 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id BnE02310; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 01:41:51 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 01:13:23 PST Subject: Re: [freestyle] Notation and The "Impossible" Move Message-ID: <19970313.013915.4830.1.dervish@juno.com> References: <000000127492941022194@mlerf.org> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-7,11-12,14-15,19-38,42-43,45-52 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 08:36:34 -0600 dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) writes: >On Wed, Mar 12, 1997, 5:59:21 AM GMT Josh Penney wrote: Reprinted with permission: >This raises the question of whether a double dexterity symposium move >gets one symposium add or two. I had never thought about it until now. Well, even though the level of difficulty would be higher, I say no. It's so easy to cheat this kind of dexterity, and it'd be impossible to tell. I can do 2legover easier the more I rotate, until it becomes a spun toestall. >>>Still, I am confused as to how Jobs' notation accounts for the BODY add >Jumping in itself does not garner a body add. Even moves like butterfly that are done with >a little 'hop' and often contact the bag before landing are not considered body adds. Body >add are flying contacts, spins, blind contacts, >paradox moves, and symposium moves. Note that the last two are qualified >by thedefinition of the move, not really a definition of body motion >elements. >>It also brings to mind the question of facilitating a (symposium) body >>add in paradox dada, but making it a 6add move would be ludicrous. > >The symposium add in a symposium butterfly is pretty routinely denied. >Even at 5 adds, the move is probably a bit 'inflated.' Cool. >>Kick sets, spins, inspin, ducks and dives. None of these are as of yet > >What is an inspin? There are really only two directions of spin. My >understanding is that inspin was like a full or near full forward spin >leading into the rest of the move, just like gyro is about a half >backward spin leading into the rest of a move. Pretty much. It requires a whole turn. Suppose I set from right clipper, turn to the right and execute a butterfly to the right clipper. Not a complete spin, yet considered a 'spinning' move. Inspin assures at least a whole turn. Same set, opposite direction; a.k.a. the long way. >And yes, Ben's notation doesn't distiguish between types of contacts (kick >or delay), but for this list, I figure delays are always implied unless >otherwise noted. Oh, all right. What, are you addicted to delays or something? JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 15 00:03:06 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA02372 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:02:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA02368 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:02:54 GMT Received: from april@bayou.uh.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2365) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA02363 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:02:53 GMT Received: from Bayou.UH.EDU (Bayou.UH.EDU [129.7.1.7]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA09653 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 16:02:25 -0800 Received: from Sharber.uh.edu (SIP-16709.Public-Dialups.UH.EDU [129.7.65.69]) by Bayou.UH.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA19459 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:02:18 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:02:18 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199703150002.SAA19459@Bayou.UH.EDU> X-Sender: april@bayou.uh.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org From: april@bayou.uh.edu (April Sharber) Subject: [freestyle] Houston Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Is anyone coming to Houston Texas for the Southern regionals next month? If so, please e-mail me and let me know. Just wondering... Later, Dan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 16 06:24:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA09258 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 06:22:44 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA09254 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 06:22:42 GMT Received: from hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9251) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA09249 for ; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 06:22:41 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu ([129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA02136 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 22:22:26 -0800 Received: from skull.cs.uidaho.edu (skull.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.108]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.1) with ESMTP id WAA29318; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 22:22:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by skull.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.0) with SMTP id WAA27562; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 22:22:24 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: skull.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 22:22:24 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand To: April Sharber cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Houston In-Reply-To: <199703150002.SAA19459@Bayou.UH.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello. I don't know about next month, but I'm in Houston for spring break right now! I'd love to meet some people down here. Anyone else on the list from Houston? I read about the Skylingers club and wrote email to Heather Thomas . I think I'll look for some action at the park tomorrow by the "triangle". On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, April Sharber wrote: > Hey > > Is anyone coming to Houston Texas for the Southern regionals next month? If > so, please e-mail me and let me know. Just wondering... > Later, > Dan > > ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 hootie AND phish blow From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 17 17:56:54 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA15972 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:56:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA15968 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:56:50 GMT Received: from davids@ax.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (15965) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA15963 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:56:49 GMT Received: from odin.ax.com (odin.ax.com [199.184.188.9]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA12295 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:57:15 -0800 Received: from odin.ax.com (odin.ax.com [199.184.188.9]) by odin.ax.com (8.8.3/1.4/8.7.3/1.1) with SMTP id JAA17235 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:56:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:56:16 -0800 (PST) From: David Sorenson To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Footbag Sighting! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Just thought I'd share a footbag sighting on TV last night. I was watching King of the Hill, and the show was full of 'baggers. The were kicking at campgrounds, at an earthday rally. In fact, the main characters were attacked by the footbaggers because they killed a whooping crane. I tell you what, it's pretty amusing to see a bunch of baggers kicking deadly footbag missiles at their foes. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 17 18:02:29 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA16008 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:02:28 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA16004 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:02:27 GMT Received: from davids@ax.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (16001) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA15999 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:02:26 GMT Received: from odin.ax.com (odin.ax.com [199.184.188.9]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA12342 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:02:51 -0800 Received: from odin.ax.com (odin.ax.com [199.184.188.9]) by odin.ax.com (8.8.3/1.4/8.7.3/1.1) with SMTP id KAA17313 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:01:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:01:58 -0800 (PST) From: David Sorenson To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Lost Footbag stories Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Man, I am bummed. I had this great "Twisted" footbag, it was well broken in, no holes, the whole shabang. And this last weekend, I hit it with a no-looker sole slap behind me and the darn thing flew into a tree. So, being as attached to this bag as I was, I climed up the tree. Just as I got out into the brranches far enough to reach it, the darn thing fell out of the tree, and into the next yard over, where some puny little miniature chihuahua felt threatened by it, and consequently tore it to itty bitty shreds. *sob* Anyway, I'm _sure_ all you other people have even better stories of how you've lost bags...let's liven this place up a bit, and spit 'em out. :) Also, a question for private email (or the group, if you're interested)...I need a replacement for my twisted. Should I get the same kind? Or are there bags that break in even better, faster and softer? Thanks... Dave From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 17 18:09:55 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA16144 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:09:55 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA16140 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:09:54 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (16137) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA16135 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:09:54 GMT Received: from [17.255.70.146] ([17.255.70.146]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA12431; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:10:20 -0800 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:10:16 -0800 To: David Sorenson From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Lost Footbag stories Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Also, a question for private email (or the group, if you're >interested)...I need a replacement for my twisted. Should I get the same >kind? Or are there bags that break in even better, faster and softer? For one perspective (mine), see: http://www.footbag.org/footbags/ But then again, you knew I'd say that. :-) Steve P.S. Perhaps the "lost footbag thread" would be better received on the footbag@footbag.org mailing list? If so, start it again there... Don't cross-post. Thanks. :-) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 17 18:46:53 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA16381 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:46:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA16377 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:46:52 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (16374) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA16372 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:46:51 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA12653 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:47:21 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA02254 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:47:15 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Lost Footbag stories Message-Id: <000000137712941469318@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:48:38 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.8 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, Mar 17, 1997, 6:01:58 PM GMT David Sorenson wrote: >Anyway, I'm _sure_ all you other people have even better stories of how My best one was when I was kicking in a barn while a friend was tending to the horses. I had attracted 4 or 5 cats that were all riveted to the footbag. This went on for awhile, me oblivious to _why_ the cats were so interested in the footbag, and the cats heads moving in unison up, down, up, down, as I kicked the bag. I finally shanked the bag about 10 feet away, and upon landing, was attacked by the nearest cat! The cat took off with the bag, and I took off after the cat. Had I not chased the cat, it probably would have dropped the footbag as soon as it realized how unedible (and wingless) it was. But instead, I scared the cat, it ran in between two stalls in the barn, and into a crevasse between the outer barn wall and the back of the stall. I never saw the footbag again. Mind you, this was a long time ago; the footbag was a tan and white 2-panel pigskin Hacky Sack. Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 18 01:11:01 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA18749 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 01:10:55 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA18745 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 01:10:53 GMT Received: from proshred@ix.netcom.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18742) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA18740 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 01:10:51 GMT Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA01374 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:10:54 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA00354 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:10:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from unknown(207.92.232.219) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma000265; Mon Mar 17 19:10:15 1997 Received: by IBM2 with Microsoft Mail id <01BC32F5.F80D2A80@IBM2>; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:09:26 -0800 Message-ID: <01BC32F5.F80D2A80@IBM2> From: Mike Niday To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Lost Footbag stories Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:09:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>> Just as I got out into the brranches far enough to reach it, the darn thing fell out of the tree, and into the next yard over, where some puny little miniature chihuahua felt threatened by it, and consequently tore it to itty bitty shreds. *sob* <<< So far we've got cats hacking hair balls and dogs shredding twisted's - COOL !! ( heh heh ) Mighty proshred@ix.netcom.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 18 02:12:20 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA18966 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 02:12:18 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA18962 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 02:12:16 GMT Received: from jelst35+@pitt.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18959) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA18957 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 02:12:16 GMT Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA01752 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:12:19 -0800 Received: from unixs1.cis.pitt.edu (jelst35@unixs1.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.31]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 20:50:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 20:50:27 -0500 (EST) From: James E Leberknight X-Sender: jelst35@unixs1.cis.pitt.edu To: Mike Niday cc: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Lost Footbag stories In-Reply-To: <01BC32F5.F80D2A80@IBM2> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Once I was jamming in the (Amazon) jungle and my bag flew into some black snake-infested swampy muck. While I would normally go to extreme lengths to retrieve a footbag, this slime was too gross for me to even consider touching. However, the moment the bag left my foot, a group of five barefooted ten-year-old native spectators jumped in after the bag. Although their salvage attempt was not successful, I was so amazed by their act that I gave them each a SIPA. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 18 03:50:43 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA19466 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 03:50:37 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA19462 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 03:50:35 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (19459) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA19457 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 03:50:35 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca ([207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA02383 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:51:09 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA29946; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:43:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:43:39 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: Mike Niday cc: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Lost Footbag stories In-Reply-To: <01BC32F5.F80D2A80@IBM2> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 17 Mar 1997, Mike Niday wrote: > > > So far we've got cats hacking hair balls and dogs shredding twisted's - COOL !! > ( heh heh ) Well, one time I was playing in my back yard and I had kicked my bag over my fence into my neighbor's yard. My neighbors had just moved in and they had this huge guard dog that I didn't know about. So after I scaled the fence into my neighbor's yard, I heard this growling sound coming from behind me. After being chased around the yard by the dog several times and trying to find my bag at the same time, I was unsucessful. I think after getting the dog so excited, he probably ate it. But on the bright side, I didn't get hurt; just a surge of adrenalin. Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 18 06:14:30 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA20091 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 06:14:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA20087 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 06:14:21 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (20084) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA20082 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 06:14:20 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA03050 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:14:25 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id BEP02829; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 01:13:24 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 00:58:47 PST Subject: [freestyle] Re: Lost Footbag stories Message-ID: <19970318.011038.3518.1.dervish@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6,25-28 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:43:39 -0800 (PST) Verhoef Anne writes: >On Mon, 17 Mar 1997, Mike Niday wrote: Okay. I thought I didn't have a story but I actually do. The second time I went to Philadelphia to shred with UPENN FOOTBAG (incidentally, those guys rule.) We had started to play across the street from a store called 'Wawa' , just inside UPENN campus... We were kicking my 5-stitch flying clipper facile juice. The bag came to me and I think I hit miraging eclipse or something like that, and the bag went flying, and fell down a sewer grate. Initially, we were laughing, but then I said, "How am I gonna get my bag back?" Dan ran across the street to buy some dental floss, and Ethan and I started scouring the campus. In about five minutes I had stolen two brass pipes about 1/4 inch thick and close to six feet in height. We ran back to the grate to find (whew!) my bag still floating. Thank you, plastic beads. Initially I had wanted to "chopstick" them back, but the poles were too long, and the holes in the grate didn't quite give us the leverage. After a few tries, we wound up using one pole at a time, wedging the bag into the corner of the drain and lifting it about three inches, using the other pole to support the bag, when the grease and slime made the pole slip. We finally got it out in about ten minutes, and then Dan approached, with a paper cup tied to some feet of floss and a roll of pennies inside to keep the cup straight. It was very silly and we laughed a lot, but I seem to remember freaking out quite a bit too. JP "PenneyPenney" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 18 06:49:36 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA20224 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 06:49:35 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA20220 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 06:49:34 GMT Received: from hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (20217) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA20215 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 06:49:34 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu ([129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA03266 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:49:39 -0800 Received: from skull.cs.uidaho.edu (skull.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.108]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.1) with ESMTP id WAA26051; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:49:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by skull.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.0) with SMTP id WAA02291; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:49:39 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: skull.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:49:38 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand To: Josh Penney cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Lost Footbag stories In-Reply-To: <19970318.011038.3518.1.dervish@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org When I first started playing footbag in my sophomore year of high school (1992), we would play MUFF, a silly game where you punish people for dropping the bag. Punishment meant throwing the bag rather hard at the offender's rump. Well, I threw the bag so hard that it stuck! I think that would qualify for another unusual surface delay :) The bag really didn't get 'lost', at least not for that long anyway. I know that I have more appropriate stories for this thread, but I can't remember them at the moment. ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 hootie AND phish blow From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 18 15:28:57 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA22023 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:28:50 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA22019 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:28:48 GMT Received: from ratcliff@advtel.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (22016) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA22014 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:28:48 GMT Received: from noc1.eatel.net (ns1.eatel.net [207.101.8.253]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA06039 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:28:56 -0800 Received: from p166 (max2-89.eatel.net [207.101.8.89]) by noc1.eatel.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA02722 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:42:08 -0600 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970318152948.00672bdc@mail.advtel.net> X-Sender: ratcliff@mail.advtel.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:29:48 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Wes Ratcliff Subject: [freestyle] Tongue Stall... Not what you think Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, anyone done the tongue stall yet?? It's not your tongue... I know what you're thinkin. :) your shoe tongue. point your toe towards the ground, and your tongue (on the shoe) will kind of make a pocket. This is kinda funky, but a real funny move to pull in a circle. ATW tongue stall, and some others are fun also. Later, Wes From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 18 21:19:57 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA23702 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:19:48 GMT Received: from robhuur@xs4all.nl () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (23459) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA23455 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:40:01 GMT Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA08706 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 12:40:37 -0800 Received: from 193.78.33.42.xs4all (stat14-73.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.14.73]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.7.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id VAA02205 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:40:09 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970318205233.0068b580@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: robhuur@xs4all.nl (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:52:33 +0100 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: robin huurman Subject: [freestyle] help wanted with performance Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi there fellow freestylers, I need some help, some info about how to set up a professional looking freestyle performance. The setting is this: Taco (another amsterdam freestyler) and I are asked to put up a 5-minute long freestyle show at the opening of our national basketball playoff-competition in the spotlights on the court! We have never done this before, and are a bit nervous about how to get this show looking good. Are there people who have done this before, and, if so, what should we ask (they offered us fl 100,- each, that's about $60,-). And, more importantly, should we aim at doing the whirling, double-over-down stuff with a big chance of drops, or, should we, because most (if not all) people there haven't seen any footbag before, aim at doing the flawless atw, clippers, mirages and stuff ?? Are no-drops more important than 3-adds and above ? Any info is very welcome !!!!! I mean, I think we can do some sort of show, low profile of some sort, doing our first show at the start of the playoffs (probably with national TV there) that's psuhing it a bit. Thanx, robin footbag amsterdam From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 18 22:03:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA23944 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:03:28 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA23940 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:03:26 GMT Received: from kuchma@golden.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (23937) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA23935 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:03:26 GMT Received: from golden.net (golden.org [199.166.210.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09302 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:03:36 -0800 Received: from [207.6.168.173] (cisco3-173.golden.net [207.6.168.173]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA18413 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:58:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:20:13 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: kuchma@golden.net (Mike Kuchma) Subject: Re: [freestyle] help wanted with performance Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Robin! Well, if you ask me, the non-kicker has a difficult time differentiating between moves. Consequently, an ATW might seem just as impressive (if not more impressive than a double-over down. Ironically, as I have found when strangers watch me kick, the crowd pleasers are often ATW's and pendulums rather than anything more difficult. My advice to you is that a whole lot of 2 and 3 add moves with no drops is a heck of a lot more impressive than drop after drop while trying to pull of 4+ add moves. -- Kuch From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 18 22:08:39 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA24018 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:08:38 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA24014 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:08:35 GMT Received: from kuchma@golden.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24011) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA24009 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:08:35 GMT Received: from golden.net (golden.org [199.166.210.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09384 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:09:16 -0800 Received: from [207.6.168.173] (cisco3-173.golden.net [207.6.168.173]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA19235 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:04:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:25:57 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: kuchma@golden.net (Mike Kuchma) Subject: [freestyle] Lavers..Nikes...Tevas...etc... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Kickers! I just want to add my two cents on the topic of freestyle footwear. About 1/2 year ago before I purchased a pair of Lavers, I was under the naive impression that they would greatly improve my freestyle game. Although they did help, they aren't AMAZING. Lavers won't turn a mediocre kicker into a pro, but it will help one on his/her way. Unfortunately, the only real drawback of Lavers is getting used to the ridge on the sides of the toe when first using them; it can be a pain for ATW's. I also used to kick in Tevas.... or rather, I let the bag fall into the Tevas. Personally, I find Tevas are great for doing moves, but they also made me lazy and there was no (for lack of a better word) satisfaction in kicking with them since there was basically no 'cushioning' effort to delay the bag. Tevas are fun for a lazy session or a day on the beach, but for true freestyling I'd wear shoes. -- Kuch p.s.: Does anybody out there remove the foam from under the tongue on their Lavers? If so, does it help or does it just further butcher the two? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 19 05:01:10 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA26024 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 05:01:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA26020 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 05:01:07 GMT Received: from sponge@reefnet.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (26017) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA26015 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 05:01:06 GMT From: Sponge@reefnet.com Received: from home.reefnet.com (home.reefnet.com [206.174.1.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA12260 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:01:19 -0800 Received: from sponge.reefnet.com (dialup-102.reefnet.com [206.174.1.102]) by home.reefnet.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA15882; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:14:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703190514.AAA15882@home.reefnet.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: James E Leberknight Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 00:02:08 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [freestyle] Lost Footbag stories CC: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Priority: normal References: <01BC32F5.F80D2A80@IBM2> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 20:50:27 -0500 (EST) > From: James E Leberknight > To: Mike Niday > Cc: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" > Subject: RE: [freestyle] Lost Footbag stories > Once I was jamming in the (Amazon) jungle and my bag flew into some > black snake-infested swampy muck. While I would normally go to extreme > lengths to retrieve a footbag, this slime was too gross for me to even > consider touching. However, the moment the bag left my foot, a group of > five barefooted ten-year-old native spectators jumped in after the bag. > Although their salvage attempt was not successful, I was so amazed by > their act that I gave them each a SIPA. > > > My story isn't quite as cool, but its somewhat funny... I was at a party and every one had brought their hacky-sacks so I accidentaly got my bag in the dip. Fortunatly I moved fast enogh so that no one noticed, so I quickly ran to the kitchen and washed the bag. Other than a few people asking why my sack was wet, no one noticed... One quick question, I'm a bit new to footbag, I just got into it about 5 months ago. Here in Key Largo, I can't find any one who is _really_ good. I mean they can do you basic moves but anything more complex than a clipper kick screws them up. Anyway, right now I suck compared to most of the stuff I read here, but I'm curious, is there some technique that I'm missing, or is it just LOTS of practice? How much time do most of you spend playong footbag? Are you just WAY more coridanated than me? Also, I'm using sandals right now to hack in and they seem great. They're really confortable and with thick soles I have a lot of control, I've talked to a lot of people who say Airwalks and and Adidas (sp?) skating shews (sp? I can't beleive I don't know how to spell that...), comments? 'Later Sponge "There is no gravity, the whole world just sucks..." - Nathanel Klopp "It could be worse, I could be normal..." -Brian Blackwell From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 19 05:36:53 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA26197 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 05:36:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA26193 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 05:36:50 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (26190) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA26188 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 05:36:49 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA12803 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:37:03 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id AcY29154; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:35:58 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:48:04 PST Subject: Re: [freestyle] help wanted with performance Message-ID: <19970319.003311.5038.0.dervish@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-10,17-22 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Well, if you ask me, the non-kicker has a difficult time differentiating >between moves. Consequently, an ATW might seem just as impressive (if >not more impressive than a double-over down. Ironically, as I have found >when strangers watch me kick, the crowd pleasers are often ATW's and >pendulums rather than anything more difficult. >My advice to you is that a whole lot >of 2 and 3 add moves with no drops is a heck of a lot more impressive >than drop after drop while trying to pull of 4+ add moves. > Agreed. The only thing folks really notice about insane freestyle is the physical condition of the athletes. Stick to the big stuff; flyers, rakes, and maybe as far as a paradox mirage, that sorta thing. Even legovers are cool for the 'uninitiated', because it's simple enough to understand. When passersby watch footbag, they tend to watch the bag, and not the 'styler. It's kind of hypnotising to see, but the varied body movement is very, very confusing. Good luck and have fun first! JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 19 06:44:01 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA26570 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 06:43:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA26566 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 06:43:55 GMT Received: from jbright@nidlink.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (26563) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA26561 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 06:43:55 GMT Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (enaila.nidlink.com [205.219.220.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA13343 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:44:10 -0800 Received: from pm7-19.nidlink.com (pm7-19.nidlink.com [205.219.220.150]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA01811 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:47:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by pm7-19.nidlink.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC33EB.EB8F4EE0@pm7-19.nidlink.com>; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:30:02 -0800 Message-ID: <01BC33EB.EB8F4EE0@pm7-19.nidlink.com> From: Josh Bright To: "freestyle@footbag.org" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Lost Footbag stories Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:58:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all, I have a little story that I found quite humorous. Me and a = couple of my friends were kicking my dirtbag in the park, after about an = hour, someone kicked it quite far away, and a seagull came down and = snatched it. He flew around for a while, we had to run to keep up with = it, but the bird finally let it go and we got it back. Crazy huh?!? Josh=20 jbright@nidlink.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 19 22:34:46 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA30537 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:34:24 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA30533 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:34:22 GMT Received: from sponge@reefnet.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (30530) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA30528 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:34:21 GMT From: Sponge@reefnet.com Received: from home.reefnet.com (home.reefnet.com [206.174.1.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA20718 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:35:11 -0800 Received: from sponge.reefnet.com (dialup-114.reefnet.com [206.174.1.114]) by home.reefnet.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA28609; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:48:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703192248.RAA28609@home.reefnet.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:35:58 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [freestyle] Re: Footbag stories and more! CC: freestyle@footbag.org Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19970319.005223.5038.4.dervish@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > To: sponge@reefnet.com > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:50:28 PST > Subject: Footbag stories and more! > From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) > Hi. I wanted to post this to the whole list, but I noticed I'd been > extremely talkative lately and this is waaaay too long. > > >I accidentaly got my bag in the dip. > >Fortunatly I moved fast enogh so that no one > >noticed, so I quickly ran to the kitchen and washed the bag. Other > >than a few people asking why my sack was wet, no one noticed... > > Awesome. Once my bag went straight into someone's glass of water (I think > it was mine) but I love food -related stories too. Did anyone continue > eating the dip? > Ya, they like finished off about half of what was left... By the way, and footbaggers out there in the upper keys? 'Later Sponge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 20 04:00:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA32447 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 04:00:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA32443 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 04:00:22 GMT Received: from proshred@ix.netcom.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (32440) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA32438 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 04:00:21 GMT Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.7]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA22612 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:01:14 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA07019 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:01:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from unknown(207.92.232.219) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma006899; Wed Mar 19 22:00:32 1997 Received: by IBM2 with Microsoft Mail id <01BC34A0.1660B6E0@IBM2>; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 19:59:43 -0800 Message-ID: <01BC34A0.1660B6E0@IBM2> From: Mike Niday To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Lost Footbag stories ( NO footbag content ) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 19:59:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >> Hello all, I have a little story that I found quite humorous. Me and a = couple of my friends were kicking my dirtbag in the park, after about an = hour, someone kicked it quite far away, and a seagull came down and = snatched it. He flew around for a while, we had to run to keep up with = it, but the bird finally let it go and we got it back. Crazy huh?!? Josh=20 jbright@nidlink.com << I was at the beach with my brother ( when we were young ), and a seagull = picked up one of our cheese and mayonnaise sandwiches, flew around with it, and = dropped it, mayonnaise side down, right on this girls stomach !! She was sun = bathing in a bikini !! He got up in a rage, and started yelling at us for throwing it at her. = We tried and tried ( in vain, of course ) to explain to her that the bird really did it... = =20 Mighty proshred@ix.netcom.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 22 02:12:53 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA04406 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 02:12:49 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA04402 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 02:12:48 GMT Received: from kenned57@pilot.msu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4399) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA04397 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 02:12:47 GMT Received: from pilot03.cl.msu.edu (pilot03.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.13]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA01571 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:12:52 -0800 Received: (kenned57@localhost) by pilot03.cl.msu.edu (8.7.5/MSU-2.10) id VAA60953; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 21:12:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199703220212.VAA60953@pilot03.cl.msu.edu> Subject: [freestyle] move query To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 21:12:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Cameron Dean Kennedy" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hello freestylers, i hope everyone has been enjoying the first few days of spring. Those of us at MSU have had many sessions yesterday and today, and many good combos were pulled by a lot of people. i had a question regarding the following move. clipper set> has anyone hit this?,does it have a name? how about with a plant in between the two dexterities? How about with a swirl on the end? thanks cameron kennedy kenned57@pilot.msu.edu 517-337-9470 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 22 06:14:54 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA05463 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 06:14:39 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA05459 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 06:14:37 GMT Received: from shahrayar@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5456) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA05454 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 06:14:36 GMT From: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com (emout05.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.96]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA02827 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 22:14:06 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id BAA18415 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 01:13:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 01:13:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970322011334_-1605244081@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move query Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org sounds like a flury to me From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 22 07:04:20 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA05605 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 07:04:19 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA05601 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 07:04:17 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5598) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA05594 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 07:04:16 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA03063 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 23:04:23 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA27793; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 23:04:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 23:04:20 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: Cameron Dean Kennedy cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move query In-Reply-To: <199703220212.VAA60953@pilot03.cl.msu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Cameron Dean Kennedy wrote: > hello freestylers, > i hope everyone has been enjoying the first few days of spring. Those of us at > MSU have had many sessions yesterday and today, and many good combos were > pulled by a lot of people. i had a question > regarding the following move. > clipper set> > has anyone hit this?,does it have a name? > how about with a plant in between the > two dexterities? > How about with a swirl on the end? > >> sounds like a flury to me. Flurry??????? Not quite... It's a stepping butterfly (same side ripwalk). Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 22 15:02:35 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA06941 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 15:02:32 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA06937 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 15:02:30 GMT Received: from tuanvu@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6934) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA06932 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 15:02:29 GMT Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [205.252.116.101]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA05376 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 07:02:09 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as17s66.erols.com [207.172.122.150]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA07632; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:03:05 -0500 Message-ID: <3333F7FC.12C9@erols.com> Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:17:16 -0500 From: 2 HUGE Organization: HUGE PRODUCTIONS X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cameron Dean Kennedy CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move query References: <199703220212.VAA60953@pilot03.cl.msu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Cameron Dean Kennedy wrote: > hello freestylers, > i hope everyone has been enjoying the first few days of spring. Those > of us at > MSU have had many sessions yesterday and today, and many good combos > were > pulled by a lot of people. i had a question > regarding the following move. > clipper set> It sound similar to a blurry drifter: I'm not sure anyone has hit the trick that you described, but I'm sure there will be someone to correct me. 2 Huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 22 17:00:27 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA07254 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 17:00:25 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA07250 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 17:00:22 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7247) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA07245 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 17:00:22 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] ([205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA05924 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 09:00:02 -0800 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3333F7FC.12C9@erols.com> References: <199703220212.VAA60953@pilot03.cl.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 08:59:55 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] move query Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Cameron Dean Kennedy wrote: > >> clipper set> > Then Tu Vu followed with: >It sound similar to a blurry drifter: > Didn't we *just* finish discussing notation and how confusing it can be if everyone starts inventing their own notation!??! Believe it or not, I'm not trying to force Ben Job's notation on everyone, but it sure seems useful and most of us already know it and use it. I just want to avoid confusion -- it's already hard enough to describe freestyle moves on e-mail. So one "right" way to describe this move on this list is below -- and if you describe it right, there won't be so much confusion about which move you're describing and people can answer more accurately: clip > op in dex > same out dex > op clip Assuming of course I understood the previous ad hoc notation to begin with. (Because as we discussed earlier, "same" and "op" can mean different things depending on your notation.) In Job's notation, the above string as I rewrote it is clearly a "Stepping Butterfly". (4 adds: dex, dex, xbd, del) If you meant Ripwalk (or Dada) then you should've said "clip > op in dex > op out dex > op clip". Yes, this is an ambiguous string in Job's notation (i.e., you can't tell Ripwalk from Dada). So we have to fix that. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 24 07:36:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA14198 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:35:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA14194 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:35:31 GMT Received: from hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (14191) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA14189 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:35:31 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu ([129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA15615 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:35:57 -0800 Received: from skull.cs.uidaho.edu (skull.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.108]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.1) with ESMTP id XAA13754 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:35:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by skull.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.0) with SMTP id XAA22752 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:35:51 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: skull.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:35:51 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Move Query Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org After reading the FAQ, I wanted to call this move a Pixie Swirl or even a pendulum-esque pixie swirl. The bag is carried behind the body in a pendulum fashion w/o going over the head, then an immediate out-in dex followed up by a swirl from the opposite foot. I know I have seen people do this, but from different sets. Is there a name for what I've described? ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 hootie AND phish blow From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 25 01:04:13 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA18500 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:02:50 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA18496 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:02:48 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18493) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA18490 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:02:37 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA20616 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:03:11 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA07307; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:02:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:02:47 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: Matt Hillebrand cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move Query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, Matt Hillebrand wrote: > After reading the FAQ, I wanted to call this move a Pixie Swirl or even a > pendulum-esque pixie swirl. The bag is carried behind the body in a > pendulum fashion w/o going over the head, then an immediate out-in dex > followed up by a swirl from the opposite foot. I know I have seen people > do this, but from different sets. Is there a name for what I've described? Pixie Swirl is a totally different than you're describing. Pixie swirl is: toe > same in dex > op swirl dex > op clip. Looks a lot like a Whirling Swirl. It's hard to imagine what you are describing. It sounds like a pendulum set into a butterfly swirl. I don't think there is any name for this move. I have heard a similar one: spinning butterfly swirl (Spyro gyro) See ya, Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 25 02:54:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA19044 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:54:10 GMT Received: from hungchang_at_bldg2@ca.slr.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18220) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA18218 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 23:47:05 GMT Received: from relay1.smtp.psi.net (relay1.smtp.psi.net [38.8.14.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA20171 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:47:34 -0800 Received: from dns.slr.com by relay1.smtp.psi.net (8.8.3/SMI-5.4-PSI) id SAA26446; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:47:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ca.slr.com ([158.116.9.16]) by dns.slr.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA22394; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:48:17 -0800 Received: from ccMail by ca.slr.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA859246728; Mon, 24 Mar 97 15:42:56 PST Date: Mon, 24 Mar 97 15:42:56 PST From: "HungChang" Message-Id: <9702248592.AA859246728@ca.slr.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re[2]: [footbag] The Shoes... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Question for freestylers that know everything: Who was the guy that invented the "toe pocket" on these canvas freestyle shoes? Hung From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 25 03:46:05 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA19461 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 03:45:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA19457 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 03:45:57 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (19454) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA19452 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 03:45:57 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA21295 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 19:46:30 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id WFA05625; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:42:50 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:40:00 -0500 Subject: [freestyle] Move Query and more terminology. Message-ID: <19970324.224001.3862.0.dervish@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-13,15,17,20,22-23,28-29,32-39,41,43,45-52,54-57,59-60 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:02:47 -0800 (PST) Verhoef Anne writes: >On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, Matt Hillebrand wrote: >>The bag is carried behind the body in a >> pendulum fashion w/o going over the head, then an immediate out-in >>dex followed up by a swirl from the opposite foot. I know I have seen >>people do this, but from different sets. Is there a name for what I've >described? >Pixie Swirl is a totally different than you're describing. Pixie swirl >is: toe > same in dex > op swirl dex > op clip. Looks a lot like a >Whirling Swirl. Okay, here's the way it is. Matt is describing a "short pendulum" into butterfly swirl, with or without the half turn. With the terminology *I* am using (I'm not sure how you're describing this, Adrian) The move you describe goes pixie, opssosite foot swirl, opposite foot (from the swirl) clipper, which means an osis after the swirl or some really, really fast feet. Without the switch (are you sure that's what you mean?)after the swirl, this is 'toe whirling swirl'. A 'pixie swirl' could *also* be set with the left, swirl with the left, but given the confusion from this example I think that it should be the only case. That is to say, if 'pixie swirl' is set from the opposite foot that performs the swirl (and subsequently the delay) then that move should be called 'Toe Whirling Swirl'. But Steve had a point. We should get, and keep the terminology straight for the purposes of discussion on this list - not because one version is better than the other, simply to allow efficient, clear communication. < clip|toe > = delay or set from clipper or toe. < in|out > inside to out or outside to in dexterity around the footbag. < same|opp > terms relative to each other and the last term used. so: < clip > < op in > < op out > this is Ripwalk, or Dada Curve. Got it? The first use of the term means the opposite leg of the one used to set. The second term means the opposite leg from the one in the term before it - the first dexterity. The means a clipper delay [obviously] on the leg opposite the one in the term before it - the second dexterity. JP English? No problem. Computers? Not a chance. -me in a drunken stupor. : ) ps. anyone have a problem with this, email me privately - don't send it to the whole list. I will be happy to clarify my position. pps.The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. Who'm I kidding? I don't have a freakin' job! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 25 12:00:26 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA21190 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:00:24 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA21186 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:00:22 GMT Received: from robhuur@xs4all.nl () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (21183) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA21181 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:00:21 GMT Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA23250 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 04:00:58 -0800 Received: from 193.78.33.42.xs4all (stat14-73.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.14.73]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.7.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id NAA16421 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:00:51 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970325121354.0069366c@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: robhuur@xs4all.nl X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:13:54 +0100 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: robin huurman Subject: [freestyle] No move query .... but performance, what happened ? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, thnx for all the suggestions we got !!The one thing everybody said was : no-drops ! Well, we dropped it, a couple of times, but we had fun. We were very, very nervous before the show, but the response from the crowd was good, even though there were drops. And the stupid thing is, is that you try to compensate for the drops you make by trying to show the more difficult stuff, which leads to another drop etc... So, the crowd and the organisation were pleased, and we had fun but we weren't that satisfied with what we showed. I mean, how can you ever be satisfied with your freestyle strings, right ? But it was very hard. A basketball court looks small on TV, but if you're on it alone with only a 2,5 inch ball, it's enormous. You're lost in some corner with legs that seem to have changed place. Anyway, for those who wanted to know how it went .... regards, robin footbag amsterdam From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 27 01:23:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA31783 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 01:23:53 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA31779 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 01:23:51 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (31776) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA31774 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 01:23:49 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA08592 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:24:42 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA29459; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:24:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:24:19 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: Josh Penney cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move Query and more terminology. In-Reply-To: <19970324.224001.3862.0.dervish@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Josh Penney wrote: > >Pixie Swirl is a totally different than you're describing. Pixie swirl > >is: toe > same in dex > op swirl dex > op clip. Looks a lot like a > >Whirling Swirl. > > The move you describe goes pixie, opssosite foot swirl, opposite foot > (from the swirl) clipper, which means an osis after the swirl or some > really, really fast feet. > Without the switch (are you sure that's what you mean?)after the swirl, > this is 'toe whirling swirl'. WHOOPS! my mistake! What I meant was a toe whirling swirl. I just described it wrong. aka pixie same side swirl > A 'pixie swirl' could *also* be set with the left, swirl with the left, > but given the confusion from this example I think that it should be the > only case. That is to say, if 'pixie swirl' is set from the opposite > foot that performs the swirl (and subsequently the delay) then that move > should be called 'Toe Whirling Swirl'. Yeah, there's another pixie swirl. But again, a different name could be used for this move. If you went toe > same in out dex > same swirl > same clip, that would be another version of pixie swirl. Another name for this is toe drifter swirl. A lot of pixie moves have different names already. See ya, Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 27 05:45:41 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA00464 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:45:34 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA00460 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:45:33 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (457) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA00455 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:45:33 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA10216 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:46:21 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id AEJ06491; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:44:56 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:41:29 -0500 Subject: [freestyle] The Tape Sinister... Message-ID: <19970327.004130.3558.4.dervish@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-7,9,11-16 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I would also like to add my always outspoken bit to the accolades to the 96 shred tape. Tuan, my friend, you have outdone y'self. Boy, am I dizzy. I haven't felt this sick since 'Raw Shred' came out - and now I can watch both, when I'm feeling particularly uninspired. Oyea. Hey, all you stars of the tapes; what were you guys watching to come up with this sick stuff? and what's in your diets that I'm not eating? Vitamin stall, or maybe crossbody oil? I know there's a dexterity bean I haven't found yet, but I'm sure it's either animal, vegetable or mineral. Now, about that symposium add.... JPenneyPenney aka (me & my $.02) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 27 18:08:02 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA05407 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:08:00 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA05402 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:07:57 GMT Received: from sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5399) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA05397 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:07:49 GMT Received: from dept.english.upenn.edu (DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU [130.91.75.246]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA13721 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:08:44 -0800 Received: (from sunilj@localhost) by dept.english.upenn.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA70824 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:08:40 -0500 From: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani) Message-Id: <199703271808.NAA70824@dept.english.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move Query and more terminology. Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:08:40 -0500 (EST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: from "Verhoef Anne" at Mar 26, 97 05:24:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org According to Verhoef Anne: > > Yeah, there's another pixie swirl. But again, a different name could be > used for this move. If you went toe > same in out dex > same swirl > same > clip, that would be another version of pixie swirl. Another name for this > is toe drifter swirl. A lot of pixie moves have different names already. > I always though toe drifter was a miraging clipper. ie toe set> OPP out dex > same swirl > same clip would be a toe drifter swirl (or toe swifter) Which is it? And what is toe set> opp out dex > opp swirl > same clip This could be called a toe whirling swirl too, couldn't it? Sunil From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 27 20:39:41 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA06248 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:39:40 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA06243 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:39:39 GMT Received: from ratcliff@advtel.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6239) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA06232; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:39:38 GMT Received: from noc1.eatel.net (ns1.eatel.net [207.101.8.253]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA14519; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:40:29 -0800 Received: from p166 (max4-22.eatel.net [207.101.8.142]) by noc1.eatel.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA12630; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:56:38 -0600 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970327204059.00683e58@mail.advtel.net> X-Sender: ratcliff@mail.advtel.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:40:59 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Wes Ratcliff Subject: [freestyle] Hackman's Page is Totally Redone!! Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org As most of you know, Hackman's Page hasn't been updated for about 3 weeks. During that time, I have been adding new features, *trying* to cut down on the wait for the graphics etc. I have added new features such as a real Java Chat, a part about Stretches, and coming soon a "Hack FAQ" :) Although just about everything works, it would be cool if some people could cruise by and give me some comments etc. So go check it out! --==IMPORTANT==-- The alternate address for Hackman's Page is http://www.eatel.net/~ratcliff/ it is shorter than the other one. Both address still go the same place however. Anyway, drop me a line about Hackman... -Wes ratcliff@advtel.net From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 28 01:02:35 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA07708 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 01:01:19 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA07704 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 01:01:17 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7701) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA07699 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 01:01:16 GMT Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA15945; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:02:19 -0800 Received: from [204.148.85.142] (d142.dialnet1.interaccess.com [204.148.85.142]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id TAA20453; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:01:18 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:01:18 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson), freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] The Tape Sinister... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Everyone! >>I know there's a dexterity bean I haven't found yet, but I'm sure it's >>either animal, vegetable or mineral. > >As for the cross body, that is just balance. >Many of the BAP are vegetarians, at least 25%, probably more... so for them >I am certain that the dexterity bean is either vegetable or mineral. What I meant to say was... "Many of the top players in this sport are vegetarians, certainly a higher percentage of vegetarians in footbag, than that of the normal population." I did not mean to be so "BAP centric." Even though I didn't hear anyone being miffed about my apparrent BAP centricity, I thought I would widen the scope of my statement to include all of the wonderful players at the top of the sport. So with that said, I can sleep a little better tonight. :-) (Sorry to Derrick, Ida, Sam, Lisa and all of the top players/vegetarians who were omitted from my initial statement). See ya! Scott. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 28 05:58:09 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA09141 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:58:07 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA09137 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:58:05 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9134) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA09132 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:58:05 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA17255 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:59:10 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id AmB00453; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 00:56:30 EST To: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 00:38:41 -0500 Subject: [freestyle] Move Query and more terminology. Message-ID: <19970328.005349.3566.2.dervish@juno.com> References: <199703280348.WAA70260@dept.english.upenn.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11,13,15-20,24,27-33,37,40-46 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>I always though toe drifter was a miraging clipper. >>ie toe set> OPP out dex > same swirl > same clip would be a toe >>drifter swirl (or toe swifter) >>Which is it? > >> Close - toe set drifter. >> >> >And what is >> >toe set> opp out dex > opp swirl > same clip >> >This could be called a toe whirling swirl too, couldn't it? >> >> Butterfly swirl. > I guess that I meant opp IN dex, not out (I still get confused on > that damn system). Anyways I am trying to clear up multiple names > for toe moves (ie toe blur toe drifter toe whirl) and have them > be distinct from the pixie style moves. Adrian said that pixie > clipper is toe drifter, you say that miraging clipper is also > toe drifter... is it both? Or which is what. It's all the same. Bad enough we have double-over down, down-double, barfly and paradon for moves that are so similar... how about clipper-set mirage vs. toe? Why not come up with different names for everything? I'll tell you - because it gets waay too confusing. Now, there's barrage and toe-rage and double mirage. You and I know what they are, but it's ridiculous for them all to have their own name. Let the style have it's style. > >I fully disagree with you... barfly, double over down, paradon, >and down double down are all different moves, that is why they have >different names. Do you think barrage and double whirl are the same >or similar moves?? The difference is the same as paradon and barfly. Okay, maybe I wasn't really *on* the mark for the double-over family. But you have to admit that renaming clipper set mirage or barrage vs. barrage from toe is too random. There are going to have to be some cases where the cigar is just a smelly roll of tobacco. But to answer, No I don't think so, and the differences are more pronounced (to the extreme) 2whirl is almost another dexterity! Barrage, par. and bfly are only one-and-a-half. Thanks, JP English? No problem. Computers? Not a chance. -me in a drunken stupor. : ) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 29 02:20:19 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA03522 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 02:20:10 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA03518 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 02:20:08 GMT Received: from shahrayar@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3515) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA03513 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 02:20:07 GMT From: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com Received: from emout03.mail.aol.com (emout03.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.94]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA23464 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:20:11 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout03.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id VAA03075 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 21:20:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 21:20:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970328212008_738836150@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Move Question Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tu and I were practicing gyrating moves and in-spins today. I was wondering if anyone has hit an in-spinning double leg-over? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 29 03:41:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA03981 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 03:41:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA03977 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 03:41:22 GMT Received: from tuanvu@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3974) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA03972 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 03:41:22 GMT Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [205.252.116.102]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA23873 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 19:41:27 -0800 Received: from tv (spg-as18s48.erols.com [207.172.122.216]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA06536; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 22:40:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <333C90D5.164D@erols.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 22:47:33 -0500 From: 2 HUGE Organization: HUGE PRODUCTIONS X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Strong CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: [footbag] Tuan's Video References: <199703270319.VAA25387@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Matt Strong wrote: > I also got Tuan's tapes, and they are great. I especially like the > last combo Tuan pulls at the end. What was that? I thought I saw a > blur in their, but I'm not sure. The combo is blur, leg-beater, blur, atom-smasher, leg-beater, blur. VERY SICK! 2 Huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 29 21:16:17 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA06915 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 21:16:02 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA06911 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 21:16:00 GMT Received: from ratcliff@advtel.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6908) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA06906 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 21:16:00 GMT Received: from noc1.eatel.net (ns1.eatel.net [207.101.8.253]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA27724 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 13:16:11 -0800 Received: from p166 (max2-113.eatel.net [207.101.8.113]) by noc1.eatel.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA13912; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:32:57 -0600 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970329211638.00673834@mail.advtel.net> X-Sender: ratcliff@mail.advtel.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:16:38 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Wes Ratcliff Subject: [freestyle] Hackman's New Move Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, Hackman's bew freestyle footbag move is out. Go check it out. The address is: http://www.eatel.net/~ratcliff/ BTW, if you have never heard of Hackman before, he is a little guy who shows you how to perform different footbag moves ranging from 1-Add to 3-Add. Wes From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 30 05:30:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA00258 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 05:29:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA00254 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 05:29:51 GMT Received: from kuchma@golden.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (251) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA00249 for ; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 05:29:50 GMT Received: from golden.net ([199.166.210.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA29641 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 21:29:50 -0800 Received: from [207.216.76.103] (cisco6-103.cas.golden.net [207.216.76.103]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA22986 for ; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 00:29:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 00:29:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org From: kuchma@golden.net (Mike Kuchma) Subject: [freestyle] Optional Lavers modifications Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello kickers! I've got two questions regarding Laver modifications that are either optional or not listed at the website. 1) is it a good idea to cut away at the insole part and remove the arch support that juts out beyond the instep? 2) how beneficial is removing the foam from inside the tongue? how do i do it? Thanks! -- Kuch From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 30 20:50:56 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02883 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 20:50:47 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02879 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 20:50:46 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2873) Received: from Market.NET ([140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA02367 for ; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 18:46:16 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA00734 for ; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 10:46:22 -0800 Received: from default (p1-97.top.net) by mailjay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA053916016; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 09:33:36 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970330093403.0078d7a0@bluejay.creighton.edu> X-Sender: swingert@bluejay.creighton.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 beta 4 (32) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 09:35:04 +0000 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Sean Wingert Subject: [freestyle] Gyrating Zulu Lelus Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Shahrayar wrote: >Tu and I were practicing gyrating moves and in-spins today. I was wondering >if anyone has hit an in-spinning double leg-over? Speaking of gyrating moves, two weeks ago, Scott Davidson and I were skooling gyrating Zulu Lelus and gyrating ducking butterflies. So, if you're interested Shahrayar, give those a try, they're nice moves... Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 30 21:09:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02984 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:09:10 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02980 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:09:08 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2977) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02975 for ; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:09:06 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA01611 for ; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:09:11 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA24106; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:09:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:09:08 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: Sean Wingert cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gyrating Zulu Lelus In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970330093403.0078d7a0@bluejay.creighton.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 30 Mar 1997, Sean Wingert wrote: > Speaking of gyrating moves, two weeks ago, Scott Davidson and I were > skooling gyrating Zulu Lelus and gyrating ducking butterflies. So, if > you're interested Shahrayar, give those a try, they're nice moves... What is a gyrating Zulu Lelus??? As for gyrating ducking butterfly; a very fun move!! Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 31 01:01:07 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA03704 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:01:05 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA03700 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:01:04 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3697) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA03695 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:01:03 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA02661 for ; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 17:01:11 -0800 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id TuQ26040; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 19:59:36 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 19:51:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gyrating Zulu Lelus Message-ID: <19970330.195658.3278.0.dervish@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-15,17-19 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:09:08 -0800 (PST) Verhoef Anne writes: >On Sun, 30 Mar 1997, Sean Wingert wrote: >> Speaking of gyrating moves, two weeks ago, Scott Davidson and I were >> skooling gyrating Zulu Lelus and gyrating ducking butterflies. So, if >> you're interested Shahrayar, give those a try, they're nice moves... >What is a gyrating Zulu Lelus??? >As for gyrating ducking butterfly; a very fun move!! Zulu Le Loup is a diving butterfly, set right foot, delay left. A 'patented' Eric Wulff move. There's Zulu warrior, Zulu tribe, ect. Sean is telling Jim to shut the hell up, 'cause he skools too much. : ) Aintcha, Sean ? Give it a rest, Jim. In-spinning double leg-over? You need to move out to the west coast, where all the sickies are. Because I was skooling shooting diving paradox symposium blistering whirl, and I wanted to know if anyone cares what I hit when I'm sleeping. PenneyPenney