From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 1 15:39:45 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA31877 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 15:39:38 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA31873 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 May 1997 15:39:36 GMT Received: from nhall@sdgmail.ncsa.uiuc.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (31870) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA31868 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 15:39:36 GMT Received: from ncsa.uiuc.edu (sdgmail.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.103.66]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA10724; Thu, 1 May 1997 08:40:29 -0700 Received: from void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (void [141.142.103.20]) by ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA11207; Thu, 1 May 1997 10:40:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nhall@localhost) by void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id KAA22431; Thu, 1 May 1997 10:40:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 10:40:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Nicholas Hall To: Scott Davidson cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Hello to me In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org You know, once I was having trouble installing a Jigsaw database server on one of the mainframes at work. There was a demo to NSA and HUD that day, I was pressed for time, etc, and in desperation I posted my question to a newsgroup. An hour later, I got a reply from Anselm Baird, the author of Jigsaw himself, and thought "This is why I love the net." Well, that's similar to how I feel about getting back a reply from Scott Davidson. Thanks for the info, Scott, and I'm definitely gonna hit midwest regionals. I'm down here in Champaign-Urbana, btw. Hope to kick with you folks in Chicago real soon now... :) Nick On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Scott Davidson wrote: > Good to hear your enthusiasm! > You can reach Paul Munger of Hu-Mungis Footbags by email at: > humungis@footbag.org > We have Midwest Regionals on June 13-15 this year if you are interested. > > See ya! > Scott Davidson > Enlightener ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Nick Hall | nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu | http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/nhall | | National Center for Supercomputing App's | University of Illinois | | "You'll hear a lot of people talking about individual freedom- But | | when they see a free individual, boy, they get scared" -Easy Rider | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 1 20:28:06 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA00847 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 20:27:55 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA00843 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 May 1997 20:27:54 GMT Received: from ratcliff@advtel.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (840) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA00838 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 20:27:54 GMT Received: from noc1.eatel.net (noc1.eatel.net [207.101.8.253]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA12564 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 13:28:55 -0700 Received: from p166 (max2-54.eatel.net [207.101.8.54]) by noc1.eatel.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA19551 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 15:55:41 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970501152903.007b7740@mail.advtel.net> X-Sender: ratcliff@mail.advtel.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 15:29:03 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Wes Ratcliff Subject: [freestyle] Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:32-Panel :) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well, I guess I'll add my 2 panel's worth :) As far as I see it... when kids see someone footbagging, they will ooh and ahh & wanna learn to do it. So, as soon as they see a footbag in the store, they snatch it up. This is how it is... ;) It's how I ended up with a hack quite a while ago. I think that flying clipper should start selling their footbags all over. This would put lots of people with a GOOD hack. Not the kind that I saw at Wal-Mart that were really rocks. They were that hard!!?? And they were Sipa wanna be's. So, they get home and try to hack with their new "awesome" bag. Turns out, the bag is over filled, and they get burned out very quick. :( Most of the people who see me footbagging say that they've tried it before, but they quit because it was too hard. I'm not sayin that we should make footbags that are magnetic and stick to your foot, but if there were really fine bags out there, we would have lots more interest/participation in the sport! But anyway, I'm going to Astro World tomorrow & me and my friend will probably get lots of people hyped about the sport. They will go out and buy the cheap bag & the cycle will repeat... however some people will figure out that they can open up the bag and work on it, or they will get a nice bag. These are the people that stay with footbagging! So I guess the purpose of this letter is to say that there would be LOTS more footbaggers if there were nice footbags out there for not a lotta $$$. Long letter just to say that last sentence, huh? Later, Wes P.S. I won't be in the footbag chat on Hackman's Page tomorrow night From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun May 4 23:10:43 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA09375 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 4 May 1997 23:10:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA09371 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 4 May 1997 23:10:22 GMT Received: from ratcliff@advtel.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9368) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA09366 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 23:10:21 GMT Received: from noc1.eatel.net (noc1.eatel.net [207.101.8.253]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA05239 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 16:10:44 -0700 Received: from p166 (max4-16.eatel.net [207.101.8.136]) by noc1.eatel.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA15961; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:37:50 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970504170324.007b3300@mail.advtel.net> X-Sender: ratcliff@mail.advtel.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 17:03:24 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Wes Ratcliff Subject: [freestyle] --==Hackman's New Move==-- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= Hey! Hackman's new move is out. Also, we have added some stuff to the Hack FAQ. Check it out. If you haven't heard of Hackman before, he's a little guy that'll school you with Freestyle Footbag Moves ranging from 1 to 3 Add. Also on the page is lots of footbag info. The address is http://www.eatel.net/~ratcliff/ --==ALSO==-- If you have a Java-enabled browser, the official footbag chat time is 8pm on Friday Nights if the server is up. :) Sneaker Chat said that they have it under control... Later, Wes -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon May 5 01:29:10 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA09657 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 01:29:07 GMT Received: from mendon@sound.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8954) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA08952 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 20:21:37 GMT Received: from sound.net (echo.sound.net [205.242.192.21]) by Market.NET (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA04550 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 13:21:58 -0700 Received: from mendon (pm2-23.sound.net [206.154.174.23]) by sound.net (8.8.3/8.7.4) with ESMTP id PAA05430 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 15:20:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199705042020.PAA05430@sound.net> From: "MENDON" To: Subject: [freestyle] thrifty shopping Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:21:49 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org get this.... i was looking through the library(yeah..fun) and i happened to stumble across nothing else but "Tricks of th Trade"! so i rented it and was amazed if you're evil, you can tape it off...but i wrote this for people to save $$$ by RENTING... that's all for now... From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 7 11:40:39 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA21439 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 11:40:29 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA21435 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 May 1997 11:40:27 GMT Received: from robhuur@xs4all.nl () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (21432) Received: from Market.NET ([140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA21430 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 11:40:26 GMT Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA26299 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 04:40:38 -0700 Received: from 193.78.33.42.xs4all (stat14-73.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.14.73]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.7.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id NAA29934 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:40:35 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970507114121.0069800c@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: robhuur@xs4all.nl X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 13:41:21 +0200 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: robin Subject: [freestyle] footbag, footbagmoves and religion Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org footbag, footbagmoves and the major religions: Taoism: Footbag is. Confucianism: Confucius says: 'Footbag is'. Bhoedhism: This whirl is only pretence Zen: What is the sound of silent lavers ? Hindoeism: This move you got from a former life Judaism: Why do we always get the shitfootbags ? Islam: If you can't do a torque it's Allah's will. Stoicism: Footbag leaves me cold. Katholicism: You can't do a drifter because you're a sinner. Protestantism: Give my bad moves to someone else. Calvinism: If can't do a dada-curve, you're not working hard enough. Reformed Church: No footbag on sunday. Christianfundamentalism: Soon God will send: Severe Ankle Injuries ! Jehovah's witness: Let us help you in your Lavers. Osho: Only nice footbags are real. Hare Krishna: Footbag, footbag, hare rama Atheism: There is no footbag Hippies: All the moves are already in yourself New Age: Visualize the ultimate footbag move. Rastafarians: Let's smoke this footbag. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 7 13:24:10 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA21800 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:24:09 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA21796 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:24:07 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (21793) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA21791 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:24:07 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA26613 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 06:24:55 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA22008 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 08:24:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] footbag, footbagmoves and religion Message-Id: <000000163762945856281@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 07:24:41 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.8.6 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, May 7, 1997, 11:41:21 AM GMT robin wrote: >footbag, footbagmoves and the major religions: > >... You forgot the one real-life footbag religion: BAPtism: Immerse yourself in adds Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 7 17:08:17 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA22697 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:08:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA22693 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:08:10 GMT Received: from 00201887@bigred.unl.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (22690) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA22688 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:08:09 GMT Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27871 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 10:08:59 -0700 Received: (from 00201887@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.5/8.8.2) id LAA17793 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 7 May 1997 11:57:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Theron A Troxel <00201887@bigred.unl.edu> Message-Id: <199705071657.LAA17793@bigred.unl.edu> Subject: [freestyle] 4 ADD To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 11:57:07 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everyone, I would just like to tell everyone that I hit my FIRST 4 add move, a ripwalk. Also, I was wondering what some other people's first 4 add move was. (Don't be bashful) We got to have a new subject since the $1.69/32 panel/crap footbags has expired =). L8r. -- --------------------------- @ Theron Troxel \_|_/ 465-8363 | o UNLFC President /_\_ 00201887@bigred.unl.edu \ ------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 7 17:28:56 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA22801 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:28:55 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA22797 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:28:55 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (22794) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA22792 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:28:54 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28062 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 10:29:44 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199705071657.LAA17793@bigred.unl.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:31:27 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] 4 ADD Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:57 AM -0700 5/7/97, Theron A Troxel wrote: >Also, I was wondering what some other people's first 4 add >move was. Spinning osis. I think it's one of the easier 4 adds. That and barfly (just kidding). :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 7 17:52:34 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA22903 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:52:32 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA22899 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:52:32 GMT Received: from humungis@kode.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (22896) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA22894 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:52:31 GMT Received: from bsd1.kode.net (bsd1.kode.net [206.42.219.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA28237 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 10:53:21 -0700 Received: from kodenet.kode.net (HuMungis@ppp-03.kode.net [206.42.219.22]) by bsd1.kode.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA07288 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 14:06:37 -0700 Message-ID: <3370C0DE.128F@Kode.net> Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 13:50:22 -0400 From: Paul Munger Reply-To: HuMungis@kode.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Returned mail: User unknown References: <199705072042.NAA06502@bsd1.kode.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > Theron A Troxel wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I would just like to tell everyone that I hit my FIRST 4 add move, a > > ripwalk. Also, I was wondering what some other people's first 4 add > > move was. (Don't be bashful) We got to have a new subject since the > > $1.69/32 panel/crap footbags has expired =). > > > > L8r. > > -- > > > > --------------------------- > > @ Theron Troxel > > \_|_/ 465-8363 > > | o UNLFC President > > /_\_ 00201887@bigred.unl.edu > > \ > > ------------------------------------- > > My first 4-ADD move was a paradox drifter. I thought that it was a > regular Drifter but alas.... > > Hu-Mungis From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 7 18:06:20 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA22996 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 18:06:19 GMT Received: from caseyr@phoenix.princeton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (22923) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA22921 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:59:14 GMT Received: from outbound.Princeton.EDU (outbound.Princeton.EDU [128.112.128.84]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28297 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 11:00:04 -0700 Received: from ponyexpress.Princeton.EDU ([128.112.129.131]) by outbound.Princeton.EDU with ESMTP id <541662-8470>; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:59:53 -0400 Received: from phoenix.Princeton.EDU (phoenix.Princeton.EDU [128.112.128.43]) by ponyexpress.Princeton.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA22792; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:59:50 -0400 Received: (caseyr@localhost) by phoenix.Princeton.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA14945; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:59:50 -0400 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:59:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Casey G. Rothschild" To: Theron A Troxel <00201887@bigred.unl.edu> cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] 4 ADD In-Reply-To: <199705071657.LAA17793@bigred.unl.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > Hi everyone, > > I would just like to tell everyone that I hit my FIRST 4 add move, a > ripwalk. Also, I was wondering what some other people's first 4 add > move was. (Don't be bashful) We got to have a new subject since the > $1.69/32 panel/crap footbags has expired =). Spinning Flying Butterfly. Casey From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 7 18:30:54 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA23146 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 18:30:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA23142 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 May 1997 18:30:52 GMT From: delee@uism.bu.edu Received: from delee@uism.bu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (23139) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA23137 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 18:30:51 GMT Received: from BU.EDU (BU.EDU [128.197.27.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA29151 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 11:31:41 -0700 Received: from uism.bu.edu (UISM-OUT.BU.EDU [128.197.93.52]) by BU.EDU (8.6.13/) with SMTP id OAA13303 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 14:31:37 -0400 Received: from ccMail by uism.bu.edu (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA863040673; Wed, 07 May 97 14:29:03 EST Date: Wed, 07 May 97 14:29:03 EST Message-Id: <9704078630.AA863040673@uism.bu.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] 4 ADD Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org the first 4-add i hit was a pogo double-leg over. i don't know if that's the right name for it... it's a double-leg over from clipper put with a pogo set. that's a pretty wimpy 4-add though. my first REAL one was probably double-over- down. Dennis _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: [freestyle] 4 ADD From: Theron A Troxel <00201887@bigred.unl.edu> at SMTPOUT Date: 5/7/97 1:13 PM Hi everyone, I would just like to tell everyone that I hit my FIRST 4 add move, a ripwalk. Also, I was wondering what some other people's first 4 add move was. (Don't be bashful) We got to have a new subject since the $1.69/32 panel/crap footbags has expired =). L8r. -- --------------------------- @ Theron Troxel \_|_/ 465-8363 | o UNLFC President /_\_ 00201887@bigred.unl.edu \ ------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 7 18:52:47 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA23277 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 18:52:47 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA23273 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 May 1997 18:52:46 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (23270) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA23268 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 18:52:46 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29307 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 11:53:36 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA00600 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:53:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] 4 ADD Message-Id: <000000164072945875999@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 12:53:18 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.8.6 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Theron A Troxel <00201887@bigred.unl.edu> >ripwalk. Also, I was wondering what some other people's first 4 add >move was. (Don't be bashful) We got to have a new subject since the I'm not sure I even remember; adds weren't as important back then :) Probably a spinning flying butterfly clipper, maybe a dada, possibly a spinning osis; but the first one I remember really working at to hit was a torque. Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 7 19:00:38 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA23314 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 19:00:37 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA23310 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 May 1997 19:00:35 GMT Received: from crvich@raleigh.ibm.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (23306) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA23304 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 19:00:35 GMT Received: from socks1.raleigh.ibm.com (socks1.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.124]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA29385 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 12:01:25 -0700 Received: from rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com by socks1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/RTP-FW1.0) id AA16100; Wed, 7 May 1997 15:01:16 -0400 Received: from ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (ode1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.178.164]) by rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id PAA35188 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 15:01:20 -0400 Received: by ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA23102; Wed, 7 May 1997 15:01:18 -0400 From: crvich@raleigh.ibm.com (Ernest Crvich) Message-Id: <9705071901.AA23102@ode1.raleigh.ibm.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] 4 ADD To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:01:17 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199705071657.LAA17793@bigred.unl.edu> from "Theron A Troxel" at May 7, 97 11:57:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I would just like to tell everyone that I hit my FIRST 4 add move, a > ripwalk. Cool! > Also, I was wondering what some other people's first 4 add Paradon or Barrage (I don't recall...probably the latter). Ripwalk was much harder for me to accomplish (in fact I'm still trying to bring my weak side up to speed with this one). From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 7 20:25:23 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA23894 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 20:25:15 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA23890 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 May 1997 20:25:14 GMT Received: from crvich@raleigh.ibm.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (23887) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA23885 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 20:25:14 GMT Received: from socks1.raleigh.ibm.com (socks1.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.124]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA29994 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:26:05 -0700 Received: from rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com by socks1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/RTP-FW1.0) id AA32482; Wed, 7 May 1997 16:26:00 -0400 Received: from ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (ode1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.178.164]) by rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id QAA25976 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 16:26:05 -0400 Received: by ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA20224; Wed, 7 May 1997 16:26:02 -0400 From: crvich@raleigh.ibm.com (Ernest Crvich) Message-Id: <9705072026.AA20224@ode1.raleigh.ibm.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] 4 ADD To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:26:01 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "crvich" at May 7, 97 03:01:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I foolishly said: >> Paradon or Barrage (I don't recall...probably the latter). That's the result of not posting here for over 3 months...I go and call a Barrage a 4-add move. 8-/ From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 7 20:28:07 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA23928 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 20:28:06 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA23924 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 May 1997 20:28:05 GMT Received: from tuanvu@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (23921) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA23919 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 20:28:05 GMT Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [205.252.116.101]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA30021 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:28:56 -0700 Received: from tv (spg-as18s47.erols.com [207.172.36.110]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA22247; Wed, 7 May 1997 16:28:56 -0400 Message-ID: <3370E883.5323@erols.com> Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 16:39:31 -0400 From: 2 HUGE Organization: HUGE PRODUCTIONS X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Theron A Troxel <00201887@bigred.unl.edu> CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] 4 ADD References: <199705071657.LAA17793@bigred.unl.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Theron A Troxel wrote: > Hi everyone, > I would just like to tell everyone that I hit my FIRST 4 add move, a > ripwalk. Also, I was wondering what some other people's first 4 add > move was. (Don't be bashful) We got to have a new subject since the > $1.69/32 panel/crap footbags has expired =). I guess we have something in common. Ripwalk was my first 4 add (that or spinning osis). I remember lying to someone, saying that i could do it but I hadn't hit it before. Then next I kicked with that person I hit it right in front of them. I guess i lucked out. 2 Huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 7 21:03:35 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA24068 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 21:03:34 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA24064 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 May 1997 21:03:33 GMT Received: from hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24061) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA24059 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 21:03:32 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30291 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 14:04:20 -0700 Received: from boulder.cs.uidaho.edu (boulder.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.84]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.1) with ESMTP id OAA21716 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 14:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by boulder.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.0) with SMTP id OAA28254 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 14:04:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: boulder.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 14:04:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Hillebrand To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] My first 4 ADD move Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org was a symposium whirl. I hit it again today (for only the third time ever). I've been trying so hard to get a torque. What is really strange is that I come closer to a paradox torque. I've been trying to get a paradox double leg-over as well. This summer is going to be the summer of doom, I can smell it. I'm coming closer and closer to some sick moves. :) ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 hootie AND phish blow From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 7 23:06:24 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA24555 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:06:13 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA24551 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:06:11 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24548) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA24546 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:06:11 GMT Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA30983 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 16:07:03 -0700 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3/SAS.03) id TAA04870 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 7 May 1997 19:07:02 -0400 (EDT) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Message-Id: <199705072307.TAA04870@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] 4 Add Move To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 19:07:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi All, It would definetely be the pixie-butterfly. Is this called dim-walk these days? I hit torque for the first time yesterday, which is a cool 4 add addition to my repertoire. I also hit ducking cross body rake for another new 4 adder. WHile we are one the subject, how about higher add stuff. My first five was pixie-ducking butterfly. My first six was.... Oh... right. Later, ALex p.s. Did anyone else roll in laughter at Tu's post? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 8 00:42:54 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA24995 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 00:42:46 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA24991 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 May 1997 00:42:45 GMT Received: from ratcliff@advtel.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24988) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA24986 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 00:42:44 GMT Received: from noc1.eatel.net (noc1.eatel.net [207.101.8.253]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA31436 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:43:37 -0700 Received: from p166 (max2-74.eatel.net [207.101.8.74]) by noc1.eatel.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA16571 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 20:12:22 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970507194343.007bbc40@mail.advtel.net> X-Sender: ratcliff@mail.advtel.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 19:43:43 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Wes Ratcliff Subject: [freestyle] Baby's First 4-Add :) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Also, I was wondering what some other people's first 4 add Mine was Spinning Butterfly (the other day) Also, I'm working on the Da Da Curve! 4-Addedly Yours, Wes From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 8 00:53:27 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA25074 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 00:53:26 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA25070 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 May 1997 00:53:26 GMT Received: from kenned57@pilot.msu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (25067) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA25065 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 00:53:25 GMT Received: from pilot15.cl.msu.edu (pilot15.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.25]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA31512 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:54:18 -0700 Received: (kenned57@localhost) by pilot15.cl.msu.edu (8.7.5/MSU-2.10) id UAA05325; Wed, 7 May 1997 20:54:17 -0400 Message-Id: <199705080054.UAA05325@pilot15.cl.msu.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Re: 4 ADDS To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 20:54:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Cameron Dean Kennedy" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i think my first four add move was a paradox drifter, unless this thing is four adds . . . toe|clip > same out dex > spin forward > same clip I hit this a while back, but it's prolly only 3 adds, but it kinda has a half-spin built in to it. {dex,body,xbody,del}? $.02 cameron From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 8 01:40:05 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA25319 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 01:40:04 GMT Received: from jlepine@ops.tiac.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24254) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA24252 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 22:00:31 GMT Received: from ops.tiac.net ([199.0.65.120]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA30615 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 15:01:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (jlepine@localhost) by ops.tiac.net (8.8.2/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA05086 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:02:48 -0400 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 17:02:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Jef Lepine To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] 4 ADD In-Reply-To: <199705071657.LAA17793@bigred.unl.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I would just like to tell everyone that I hit my FIRST 4 add move, a > ripwalk. Also, I was wondering what some other people's first 4 add > move was. (Don't be bashful) We got to have a new subject since the > $1.69/32 panel/crap footbags has expired =). I have problems with 3add moves but I can hit a toe Dada Curve :) So I got the 2 adders, a 3 or two, and one four. This sport is so weird... -Jef Lepine From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 8 01:56:38 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA25433 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 01:56:27 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA25429 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 May 1997 01:56:26 GMT Received: from hayek@eosc.osshe.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (25426) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA25424 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 01:56:26 GMT Received: from eosc.osshe.edu (EOSC.OSSHE.EDU [140.211.65.5]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA31882 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 18:57:20 -0700 Received: by eosc.osshe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18466; Wed, 7 May 97 18:59:45 PDT Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:59:44 -0700 (PDT) From: * T-Rex * X-Sender: hayek@emily To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] new Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello everyone, I am new here. I have been kicking on and off for about 3-4 years. THis add system is new to me, and many of these names are ones I've never heard of. I am just noe getting into this sport and am wanting to know more. If there are any tiops that you can reteach me I would be grateful. Thank You. ##### 0 0 *----ooo0--(_)--0ooo----* * * * Kevin Haye * * * * hayek@eosc.osshe.edu * * hayek@usa.net * * * * ooo0 0ooo * * ( ) ( ) * *-------\ (----) /------* \_) (_/ From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 8 02:13:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA25542 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 02:13:10 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA25538 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 May 1997 02:13:09 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (25535) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA25533 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 02:13:09 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA31981 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 19:14:02 -0700 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id W`J20547; Wed, 07 May 1997 22:11:41 EDT To: kenned57@pilot.msu.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:51:28 -0400 Subject: [freestyle] Re: 4 ADDS Message-ID: <19970507.220704.3278.1.dervish@juno.com> References: <199705080054.UAA05325@pilot15.cl.msu.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-7,9,14-16 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 7 May 1997 20:54:15 -0400 (EDT) "Cameron Dean Kennedy" writes: >i think my first four add move was a paradox drifter, unless this >thing is four adds . . . >toe|clip > same out dex > spin forward > same clip I don't understand what you're saying. Did you set from toe or clipper? Or was it a toe clipper? That would be one hard move. And which way is spinning forward - last time I tried that I hit my face on the ground... Are you describing aound the world into osis? Someone told me that's actually not osis but refraction since the bag literally goes 'tween your legs and isn't coming from behind like osis, unless you really distinguish it, and then and only then (if I were the add counter) I'd give you that add. -JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 8 03:27:53 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA25937 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 03:27:51 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA25933 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 May 1997 03:27:50 GMT Received: from kenned57@pilot.msu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (25930) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA25928 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 03:27:50 GMT Received: from pilot17.cl.msu.edu (pilot17.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.27]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA32317 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 20:28:44 -0700 Received: (kenned57@localhost) by pilot17.cl.msu.edu (8.7.5/MSU-2.10) id XAA64574; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:28:40 -0400 Message-Id: <199705080328.XAA64574@pilot17.cl.msu.edu> Subject: [freestyle] A Clarifictaion to my post To: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:28:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Cameron Dean Kennedy" In-Reply-To: <19970507.220704.3278.1.dervish@juno.com> from "Josh Penney" at May 7, 97 09:51:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org josh, and others, sorry, i should have been more clear, i was trying to use the notation suggested to me for the list, but i must have goofed. Anyway, what i meant was, either clipper or toe set, ussually clipper, its easier. spinning forward, i was again tring to follow the notation givin to me previously, i was thinking forward was a bad word when i wrote it, but i was guessing forward would be towards the set, and backwards would be away from it. anyway let me clarify what i was trying to convey . . . for example right clipper set, outside in dex with the right foot, pivot counter clockwise, right clipper. i don't think it would be a refraction, because the way i see it, the bag doesn't appear to go between the legs at all, but follows more of a behind the back path. thanks, and i again appologize for my terrible use of notation, cameron ---------------- > > On Wed, 7 May 1997 20:54:15 -0400 (EDT) "Cameron Dean Kennedy" > writes: > >i think my first four add move was a paradox drifter, unless this > >thing is four adds . . . > >toe|clip > same out dex > spin forward > same clip > > I don't understand what you're saying. Did you set from toe or clipper? > Or was it a toe clipper? That would be one hard move. > And which way is spinning forward - last time I tried that I hit my face > on the ground... > Are you describing aound the world into osis? Someone told me that's > actually not osis but refraction since the bag literally goes 'tween your > legs and isn't coming from behind like osis, unless you really > distinguish it, and then and only then (if I were the add counter) I'd > give you that add. > > -JP > -- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 8 03:59:16 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA26001 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 03:59:14 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA25997 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 May 1997 03:59:14 GMT Received: from jma15@cornell.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (25994) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA25992 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 03:59:13 GMT Received: from postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (POSTOFFICE.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA32456 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 21:00:08 -0700 Received: from CU-DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU (CU-DIALUP-1328.CIT.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.44.42]) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA16036 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 00:00:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970507235708.0069337c@postoffice4.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: jma15@postoffice4.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) -- [Cornell Modified] Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 23:57:11 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "James Meredith Amrine, Jr." Subject: Re: [freestyle] 4 ADD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org For my first post to this list, as a relatively new kicker, I thought I would throw in my two pennies on this subject. To put an interesting twist on this thread, since I have yet to hit a 4 add move, I will say my first 4 add move *will* be a torque (I think). I have been spinnin' me brains out the last week trying to hit one of these. They're pretty fun and you get a lot of oohs and ahhs out of it, even when you miss. There aren't many hardcore hackers in these parts, but we are working on it. If anyone will be in the Finger Lakes region of New York this summer, look me up. I'm always happy to put up a sack. ttfn... JaMO James Meredith Amrine, Jr. Mechanical Engineering Cornell University jma15@cornell.edu (607)275-9982 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 8 04:31:45 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA26237 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 04:31:38 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA26233 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 May 1997 04:31:37 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (26230) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA26228 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 04:31:37 GMT Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu (bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA32626 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 21:32:31 -0700 Received: from [147.134.107.135] (kie135.creighton.edu) by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA268595946; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:32:26 -0500 X-Sender: swingert@bluejay.creighton.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:45:16 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: swingert@creighton.edu (Sean Wingert) Subject: [freestyle] Fours and Fives Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org My first 4-Add move was a Dada-Curve, and it's still, in my opinion, one of *the easiest* 4-Add moves around. My first 5-Add move was a Zulu-Lelu or maybe Paradox Torque. Anyone else hit Dada as a first 4? By the way, way to go Theron!!! Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 8 04:58:00 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA26295 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 04:57:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA26291 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 May 1997 04:57:59 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (26288) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA26286 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 04:57:58 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00061 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 21:58:53 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:00:41 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Zulu le Loup Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:45 AM -0700 5/7/97, Sean Wingert wrote: >My first 5-Add move was a Zulu-Lelu or maybe Paradox Torque. That reminds me! Someone (Tuan, I think) explained to me that the move called "Zulu Lelu" on MTV that day is really not spelled that way! It's a bad pronunciation (sorry Eric) of the French name, "Zulu le Loup" (which means "Zulu the Wolf", I take it). Steve P.S. Who knows, maybe "Zulu" is really something else, too, but I think it's just Zulu... Too bad Eric isn't on-line any more... :-( But Vince is, and he knows everything.. Vince? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 8 13:36:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA27573 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 13:36:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA27569 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 May 1997 13:36:06 GMT From: delee@uism.bu.edu Received: from delee@uism.bu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (27566) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA27564 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 13:36:05 GMT Received: from BU.EDU (BU.EDU [128.197.27.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA02815 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 06:37:03 -0700 Received: from uism.bu.edu (UISM-OUT.BU.EDU [128.197.93.52]) by BU.EDU (8.6.13/) with SMTP id JAA26340 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 09:36:58 -0400 Received: from ccMail by uism.bu.edu (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA863109393; Thu, 08 May 97 09:35:38 EST Date: Thu, 08 May 97 09:35:38 EST Message-Id: <9704088631.AA863109393@uism.bu.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] A Clarifictaion to my post Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org so it would be a paradox reverse blender? 5 adds? _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: [freestyle] A Clarifictaion to my post From: "Cameron Dean Kennedy" at SMTPOUT Date: 5/7/97 11:31 PM josh, and others, sorry, i should have been more clear, i was trying to use the notation suggested to me for the list, but i must have goofed. Anyway, what i meant was, either clipper or toe set, ussually clipper, its easier. spinning forward, i was again tring to follow the notation givin to me previously, i was thinking forward was a bad word when i wrote it, but i was guessing forward would be towards the set, and backwards would be away from it. anyway let me clarify what i was trying to convey . . . for example right clipper set, outside in dex with the right foot, pivot counter clockwise, right clipper. i don't think it would be a refraction, because the way i see it, the bag doesn't appear to go between the legs at all, but follows more of a behind the back path. thanks, and i again appologize for my terrible use of notation, cameron ---------------- > > On Wed, 7 May 1997 20:54:15 -0400 (EDT) "Cameron Dean Kennedy" > writes: > >i think my first four add move was a paradox drifter, unless this > >thing is four adds . . . > >toe|clip > same out dex > spin forward > same clip > > I don't understand what you're saying. Did you set from toe or clipper? > Or was it a toe clipper? That would be one hard move. > And which way is spinning forward - last time I tried that I hit my face > on the ground... > Are you describing aound the world into osis? Someone told me that's > actually not osis but refraction since the bag literally goes 'tween your > legs and isn't coming from behind like osis, unless you really > distinguish it, and then and only then (if I were the add counter) I'd > give you that add. > > -JP > -- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 8 14:18:01 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA27723 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 14:18:00 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA27719 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 May 1997 14:17:59 GMT Received: from vander@auburn.campus.mci.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (27716) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA27714 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 14:17:59 GMT Received: from aus-d.mp.campus.mci.net (aus-d.mp.campus.mci.net [208.140.84.24]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA02984 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 07:18:57 -0700 Received: from 206.30.222.48 (s19-pm01.auburn.campus.mci.net [206.30.222.48]) by aus-d.mp.campus.mci.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA15709 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 10:14:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3371EE70.1370@auburn.campus.mci.net> Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 09:17:05 -0600 From: "Kevin J. Vanderwall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] 4 add Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Speaking of easy 4 adds, I believe my first was a flying sole butterfly (excuse the made-up term) It's just a flying butterfly with an extra add for unusual surface. Oh, P.S. any tips on blur sets? Kev. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 8 15:25:31 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA28101 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 15:25:26 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA28097 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 May 1997 15:25:25 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (28094) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA28092 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 15:25:25 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03256 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 08:26:24 -0700 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id LtL23851; Thu, 08 May 1997 11:23:47 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 11:20:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [freestyle] A Clarifictaion to my post Message-ID: <19970508.112014.4302.3.dervish@juno.com> References: <9704088631.AA863109393@uism.bu.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11,13,16-18 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 08 May 97 09:35:38 EST delee@uism.bu.edu writes: >>so it would be a paradox reverse blender? 5 adds? > CDK said: >anyway let me clarify what i was trying to convey . . . >for example >right clipper set, outside in dex with the right foot, pivot counter >clockwise, right clipper. > Oh. I used to call this 'over easy', but I stopped doing it awhile ago. I've seen a 2dex version of this, which had some debate going on, Right Vijay? the 'Double-over-osis, or 'threadmonster' or whatever it was. Did we ever come to a conclusion on that one.... so the move described before would get the additional add? -JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 8 15:51:27 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA28203 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 15:51:25 GMT Received: from etiffany@williams.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (27171) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA27169 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 11:45:52 GMT Received: from blueline.eease.com (blueline.eease.com [208.202.44.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02478 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 04:46:50 -0700 Received: from [208.202.44.250] by blueline.eease.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA5320 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 07:42:07 -0400 Message-ID: <3371BDC2.38E1@williams.edu> Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 08:00:43 -0400 From: Eric Tiffany Reply-To: etiffany@williams.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] 4 ADD References: <199705071657.LAA17793@bigred.unl.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org First 4-add (and possibly last): osis-like x-body sole stall. That is, a left outside set behind the back with a clockwise spin to a left x-body sole. (it was actually no-look, too, which would be 5 adds, but that was sort of an accident). ET -- __/ _ _/ Eric Tiffany etiffany@williams.edu __/ / 171 The Knolls 413-458-0284, __/ _/ Williamstown, MA 01267 2163 fax From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 8 15:51:29 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA28220 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 15:51:29 GMT Received: from caseyr@phoenix.princeton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (27977) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA27975 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 15:08:17 GMT Received: from outbound.Princeton.EDU (outbound.Princeton.EDU [128.112.128.84]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03157 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 08:09:16 -0700 Received: from ponyexpress.Princeton.EDU ([128.112.129.131]) by outbound.Princeton.EDU with ESMTP id <541525-9355>; Thu, 8 May 1997 11:08:44 -0400 Received: from tucson.Princeton.EDU (tucson.Princeton.EDU [128.112.131.153]) by ponyexpress.Princeton.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA28772; Thu, 8 May 1997 11:08:30 -0400 Received: from localhost (caseyr@localhost) by tucson.Princeton.EDU (SMI-8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA08788; Thu, 8 May 1997 11:08:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: tucson.princeton.edu: caseyr owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 11:08:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Casey G. Rothschild" To: "Kevin J. Vanderwall" cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] 4 add In-Reply-To: <3371EE70.1370@auburn.campus.mci.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 8 May 1997, Kevin J. Vanderwall wrote: > Speaking of easy 4 adds, I believe my first was a flying sole butterfly > (excuse the made-up term) It's just a flying butterfly with an extra add > for unusual surface. Oh, P.S. any tips on blur sets? Wouldn't that be a butterflapper? Another easy 4: pixie-eclipse (Is that a lunar eclipse or would a lunar eclipse be a miraging-eclipse? And would a blurry lunar eclipse be 6-adds? How absurd would that be?) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 8 17:32:53 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA28935 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 17:32:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA28931 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 May 1997 17:32:21 GMT Received: from vander@auburn.campus.mci.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (28928) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA28926 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 17:32:21 GMT Received: from aus-c.mp.campus.mci.net (aus-c.mp.campus.mci.net [208.140.84.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04140 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 10:33:20 -0700 Received: from 206.30.222.32 (s03-pm01.auburn.campus.mci.net [206.30.222.32]) by aus-c.mp.campus.mci.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA22275 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 13:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33721C0A.1A58@auburn.campus.mci.net> Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 12:31:38 -0600 From: "Kevin J. Vanderwall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] 4 add References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Another easy 4: pixie-eclipse (Is that a lunar eclipse or would a lunar > eclipse be a miraging-eclipse? And would a blurry lunar eclipse be > 6-adds? How absurd would that be?) That's a lunar. I'm afraid of eclipses still. I turned my ankle over on one, not pleasant. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 8 23:49:15 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA30313 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 23:47:54 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA30308 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 May 1997 23:47:52 GMT Received: from eric@javaconnection.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (30305) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA30303 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 23:47:51 GMT Received: from sol.javaconnection.com (sol.javaconnection.com [207.155.18.98]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07062 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 16:48:54 -0700 Received: from pc10.javaconnection.com ([207.155.18.105]) by sol.javaconnection.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA13264 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 16:17:08 -0700 Message-ID: <337257D5.1FED@javaconnection.com> Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 15:46:45 -0700 From: eric Reply-To: eric@javaconnection.com Organization: java X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] First four add Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org My first four add was a tourqe cant remember first 5 adder Eric Windsor O /|\ o \\ _// ` ONLY 2 MORE WEEKS UNTIL THE BEST TOURNAMENT IN HISTORY TAKES PLACE!!!! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri May 9 03:00:30 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA30963 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 May 1997 03:00:28 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA30959 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 May 1997 03:00:25 GMT Received: from jbright@nidlink.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (30956) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA30954 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 03:00:24 GMT Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (enaila.nidlink.com [205.219.220.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07922 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 20:01:28 -0700 Received: from jbright.nidlink.com (jbright@pm7-22.nidlink.com [205.219.220.153]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA24004 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 20:10:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705090310.UAA24004@enaila.nidlink.com> From: "Josh Bright" To: Subject: [freestyle] Move Query Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:59:18 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, I have this move that I haven't seen on the move list, at least i don't think I have, anyway, it starts out with a pendulum with the right foot and I throw it straight up, about a half a foot, then a in to out dexterity with the right foot, then a rake to bring it back up. I want to know the name of this move, it was one of the first I learned. Josh jbright@nidlink.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri May 9 04:00:39 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA31261 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 May 1997 04:00:37 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA31257 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 May 1997 04:00:35 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (31254) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA31252 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 04:00:34 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca ([207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08139 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 21:01:34 -0700 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA27489; Thu, 8 May 1997 21:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 21:01:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Verhoef Anne To: Sean Wingert cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Fours and Fives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 7 May 1997, Sean Wingert wrote: > My first 4-Add move was a Dada-Curve, and it's still, in my opinion, one of > *the easiest* 4-Add moves around. My first 5-Add move was a Zulu-Lelu or > maybe Paradox Torque. Anyone else hit Dada as a first 4? By the way, way to > go Theron!!! > My first four was dada. What a feeling though! my first five was pogo reverse mirage (very cheesy)! My first 6 was food processor, my first seven was....not quite there yet!!! See ya, Adrian > -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri May 9 13:34:26 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA32742 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 May 1997 13:34:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA32738 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 May 1997 13:34:21 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (32735) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA32733 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 13:34:20 GMT Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA10632 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 06:35:28 -0700 Received: from [204.148.85.76] (d76.dialnet1.interaccess.com [204.148.85.76]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id IAA14673; Fri, 9 May 1997 08:35:08 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 08:46:42 -0700 To: "Kevin J. Vanderwall" , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] 4 add Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Kevin and Everyone! >Speaking of easy 4 adds, I believe my first was a flying sole butterfly >(excuse the made-up term) It's just a flying butterfly with an extra add >for unusual surface. Oh, P.S. any tips on blur sets? Learn Ripwalk. (Stepping doesn't hurt either). From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri May 9 15:20:14 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00234 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 May 1997 15:19:12 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00230 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 May 1997 15:19:10 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (227) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00225 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 15:19:10 GMT Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.70.135]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA11066 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 08:19:10 -0700 Received: from rac5.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac5.wam.umd.edu [128.8.70.105]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00015 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 11:19:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac5.wam.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA20155 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 9 May 1997 11:19:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 11:19:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705091519.LAA20155@rac5.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #148 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org zulu was a term meant to refer to a duck into a butterfly. originally one ducking butterfly stall was a zulu warrior- circumstances leading to this name choice are really long winded and absurd, involving a great funny since retired net kicker and a few drinking songs with a lot of drink. a zulu warrior rainbow style was aduel. and anything more was a tribe. yeah, so? we used to name combos and multiples... the zulu lelu, however you spell it, refers to a diving cross body set butterfly stall. lelu refers to the Wulff, who originate the bass ackwards duck. so can someone tell me what this freestyle thing is again? it's been awhile.. l8r- vince From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri May 9 16:22:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00536 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 May 1997 16:22:00 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00532 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 May 1997 16:21:58 GMT Received: from psweeney@acad.bryant.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (529) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00527 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 16:21:58 GMT Received: from acad.bryant.edu (acad.bryant.edu [192.124.153.14]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11408 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 09:21:58 -0700 Received: from localhost (psweeney@localhost) by acad.bryant.edu (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA14461; Fri, 9 May 1997 12:25:34 -0400 Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 12:25:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Patrick Sweeney To: eric cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] First four add In-Reply-To: <337257D5.1FED@javaconnection.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org what is a four add? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri May 9 20:41:47 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA01946 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 May 1997 20:41:30 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA01942 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 May 1997 20:41:29 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1939) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA01937 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 20:41:28 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13543 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 13:41:30 -0700 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id QDZ00159; Fri, 09 May 1997 16:39:05 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:07:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [freestyle] A Clarifictaion to my post Message-ID: <19970509.163518.20574.0.dervish@juno.com> References: <199705081944.PAA24692@red.seas.upenn.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-9,11,13-17,19-23,25-29 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >> CDK said: >>>anyway let me clarify what i was trying to convey . . for example >>>right clipper set, outside in dex with the right foot, pivot counter >> >clockwise, right clipper. >>> >> >> Oh. I used to call this 'over easy', but I stopped doing it awhile ago. >> I've seen a 2dex version of this, which had some debate going on, >>Right, Vijay? >> the 'Double-over-osis, or 'threadmonster' or whatever it was. Did we ever >> come to a conclusion on that one.... so the move described before would >> get the additional add? >> >I believe the move is called 'motion'. I'm not sure if there is a >difference between catching it as an osis or refraction. Scott D. >maybe you can help clarify. Sounds like Cameron's finishing with an osis(the >pivot). > >-Vijay Well, I had considered that, but in light of what Derrick had said, if there's one dexterity or two it shouldn't make a real difference. ps. sorry about the 'delay' on this, V. -JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat May 10 22:08:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA05567 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 10 May 1997 22:08:19 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA05563 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 10 May 1997 22:08:17 GMT Received: from ratcliff@advtel.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5560) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA05558 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 22:08:17 GMT Received: from noc1.eatel.net (noc1.eatel.net [207.101.8.253]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA19022 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 15:08:29 -0700 Received: from p166 (max2-108.eatel.net [207.101.8.108]) by noc1.eatel.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA15480 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 17:37:51 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970510171619.007bb510@mail.advtel.net> X-Sender: ratcliff@mail.advtel.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 17:16:19 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Wes Ratcliff Subject: [freestyle] DaDa Move Query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I'm learning the DaDa Curve, and I was wondering if this would be it... Left Clipper Stall-->The bag goes behind both legs-->Right Clipper Stall On ToTT, Kenny says to jump in the air to emphasize the double legover, but there is NO WAY that I can jump in the air and still stall the bag after it goes behind me!!! :) But if I do all this on the ground, will it still be the DaDa. Thanks, Wes From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat May 10 22:33:44 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA05624 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 10 May 1997 22:33:43 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA05620 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 10 May 1997 22:33:43 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5617) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA05615 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 22:33:42 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19108 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 15:33:55 -0700 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id SgQ27433; Sat, 10 May 1997 18:33:26 EDT To: ratcliff@advtel.net Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 18:27:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [freestyle] DaDa Move Query Message-ID: <19970510.183017.12310.1.dervish@juno.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970510171619.007bb510@mail.advtel.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-13 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >On ToTT, Kenny says to jump in the air to emphasize the double >legover, but there is NO WAY that I can jump in the air and still stall the bag >after it goes behind me!!! :) Sure you can. Keep after it. >But if I do all this on the ground, will it still be the DaDa. If you do it on the ground, it will be the RipWalk. Keep practicing, -JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun May 11 01:12:08 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA05932 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 11 May 1997 01:12:06 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA05928 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 11 May 1997 01:12:04 GMT Received: from nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5925) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA05923 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 01:12:04 GMT Received: from ncsa.uiuc.edu (sdgmail.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.103.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19678 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 18:12:18 -0700 Received: from void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (void [141.142.103.20]) by ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA17939 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 20:12:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nhall@localhost) by void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id UAA06979; Sat, 10 May 1997 20:12:18 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 20:12:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Nicholas Hall To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] DaDa Move Query In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970510171619.007bb510@mail.advtel.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sat, 10 May 1997, Wes Ratcliff wrote: > goes behind me!!! :) But if I do all this on the ground, will it still be > the DaDa. Ummm... I've been under the impression that for the DaDa, the sack doesn't just go behind the back, it goes under the legs (which are bent and in the air), so I think you do have to be jumping. I agree that it doesn't seem to horribly hard (altho I've never landed one)- Somewhere on one of the freestyle-related pages on footbag.org (I think the Creighton U page) there's a very nice little mpeg of someone hitting a DaDa- that might help. As for four-adds, I'm pretty sure I've never hit one. I tell you, it's an exciting time, that some of you veterans probably remember: summer is just coming on, and I'm just at that 3-4 add cusp. I haven't really spent any time practicing 4-adds, but after so much time just trying to stick clippers and perfect the foundations, everything seems to be coming in to place. For instance, it seems like I land a new 3-add every day. Today, I landed the xbody rake (blind) for the first time, the xbody ducking sole stall, and the double around the world, all for the first time... An exciting stage. Now, I just gotta get me to one of them tournaments I keep hearing about... And the swirl and the double-over come next! Nick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Nick Hall | nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu | http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/nhall | | National Center for Supercomputing App's | University of Illinois | | "You'll hear a lot of people talking about individual freedom- But | | when they see a free individual, boy, they get scared" -Easy Rider | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon May 12 03:52:26 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA09554 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 May 1997 03:52:18 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA09550 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 12 May 1997 03:52:17 GMT Received: from eric@javaconnection.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9547) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA09545 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 03:52:17 GMT Received: from sol.javaconnection.com (sol.javaconnection.com [207.155.18.98]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA25432 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 20:52:42 -0700 Received: from 207.155.18.104 ([207.155.18.104]) by sol.javaconnection.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01556 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 19:04:13 -0700 Message-ID: <337694A3.4D87@javaconnection.com> Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 20:55:18 -0700 From: eric Reply-To: eric@javaconnection.com Organization: javaconnection X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: DaDa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Hey, I'm learning the DaDa Curve, and I was >wondering if this would be it... >Left Clipper Stall-->The bag goes behind both legs-->Right Clipper Stall >On ToTT, Kenny says to jump in the air to emphasize >the double legover, but >there is NO WAY that I can jump in the air and >still stall the bag after it. >goes behind me!!! :) But if I do all this on the >ground, will it still be >the DaDa. If you do it on the ground it ends up looking to much like an osis or a bad rip walk. The best way to do this move is to make sure you do not set it blurry, meaning setting it through your legs on its way up. It looks best if it passes under your legs on its way down, not up. Set it to your side, wait until it is at its highest point in the air. Once it reaches its maximum hight that is when you jump. As it starts to go down, you go up. Up and over catching it as you land. Sounds eaiser than it is. Actually why take my word for it. You already heard it from Kennys own mouth. If I were you I would do whatever he says. Those are some pretty cool Da Das in Tricks of the Trade Thanks, Wes From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 15 00:24:00 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA24144 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 00:22:48 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA24140 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 15 May 1997 00:22:46 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24137) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA24135 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 00:22:44 GMT Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu (bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA13350 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 17:23:37 -0700 Received: from [204.214.28.91] (p1-91.top.net) by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA162045811; Wed, 14 May 1997 19:23:31 -0500 X-Sender: swingert@bluejay.creighton.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 06:36:40 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: swingert@creighton.edu (Sean Wingert) Subject: [freestyle] Cool 5-Add Move Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If anyone is looking for a cool (and relatively easy) 5-add move, my sister--who does not play footbag--thought this up last night while watching me practice: paradox symposium butterfly Enjoy! Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 15 01:34:09 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA24424 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 01:33:04 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA24420 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 15 May 1997 01:33:02 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24417) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA24415 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 01:33:02 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca ([207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13652 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 18:33:55 -0700 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA05584; Wed, 14 May 1997 18:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:33:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Verhoef Anne To: Sean Wingert cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Cool 5-Add Move In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 14 May 1997, Sean Wingert wrote: > If anyone is looking for a cool (and relatively easy) 5-add move, my > sister--who does not play footbag--thought this up last night while > watching me practice: > paradox symposium butterfly How can a butterfly have a paradox add? If you mean symposium infinity, that's four adds, it's a fun drill though. Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 15 02:17:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA24577 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 02:15:57 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA24573 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 15 May 1997 02:15:55 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24570) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA24568 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 02:15:55 GMT Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu (bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA13841 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 19:16:49 -0700 Received: from [204.214.28.204] by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA268212606; Wed, 14 May 1997 21:16:46 -0500 X-Sender: swingert@bluejay.creighton.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:29:56 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: swingert@creighton.edu (Sean Wingert) Subject: [freestyle] RE: Cool 5-Add Move Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >On Wed, 14 May 1997, Sean Wingert wrote: > >> If anyone is looking for a cool (and relatively easy) 5-add move, my >> sister--who does not play footbag--thought this up last night while >> watching me practice: >> paradox symposium butterfly > >How can a butterfly have a paradox add? If you mean symposium infinity, >that's four adds, it's a fun drill though. You are right about symp. infinity being a good drill, but I don't mean to confuse the two moves: this trick is simply a paradox symposium whirl, but the motion is NOT whirl (in-out), it's butterfly (out-in). I'm fairly sure it still receives the paradox component, even though the first dexterity (performed with clipper foot) is outside in, as opposed to the many paradox moves which are in-out (paradox mirage, paradox symp. whirl, paradox drifter). Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 15 02:53:01 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA24665 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 02:51:57 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA24661 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 15 May 1997 02:51:56 GMT Received: from hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24658) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA24656 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 02:51:56 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA13995 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 19:52:50 -0700 Received: from skull.cs.uidaho.edu (skull.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.108]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.1) with ESMTP id TAA05278; Wed, 14 May 1997 19:52:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by skull.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.0) with SMTP id TAA00362; Wed, 14 May 1997 19:52:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: skull.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:52:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Hillebrand To: Sean Wingert cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] RE: Cool 5-Add Move In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > You are right about symp. infinity being a good drill, but I don't mean > to confuse the two moves: this trick is simply a paradox symposium whirl, > but the motion is NOT whirl (in-out), it's butterfly (out-in). Isn't that just a butterfly from a crossbody set? 3 adds? I could be wrong...: ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 hootie AND phish blow From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 15 03:04:21 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA24914 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 03:03:17 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA24910 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 15 May 1997 03:03:15 GMT Received: from vander@auburn.campus.mci.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24907) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA24905 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 03:03:14 GMT Received: from aus-f.mp.campus.mci.net (aus-f.mp.campus.mci.net [208.140.84.26]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14072 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 20:03:53 -0700 Received: from 206.30.222.83 (s24-pm02.auburn.campus.mci.net [206.30.222.83]) by aus-f.mp.campus.mci.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA05153 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 22:59:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <337A8AC1.5FB@auburn.campus.mci.net> Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 22:02:09 -0600 From: "Kevin J. Vanderwall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] RE: Cool 5-Add Move References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > to confuse the two moves: this trick is simply a paradox symposium whirl, > but the motion is NOT whirl (in-out), it's butterfly (out-in). > I'm fairly sure it still receives the paradox component, even though the > first dexterity (performed with clipper foot) is outside in, as Isn't that a barfly? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 15 04:55:49 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA25343 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 04:54:43 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA25339 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 15 May 1997 04:54:41 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (25336) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA25334 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 04:54:41 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14445 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 21:55:35 -0700 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ABJ29965; Thu, 15 May 1997 00:54:57 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 00:45:00 -0400 Subject: [freestyle] Re: Cool 5-Add Move Message-ID: <19970515.005124.4470.0.dervish@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,10,12-17,19,23,25-27,29 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>> paradox symposium butterfly >> >>How can a butterfly have a paradox add? If you mean symposium infinity, >>that's four adds, it's a fun drill though. > > You are right about symp. infinity being a good drill, but I don't >mean to confuse the two moves: this trick is simply a paradox symposium >whirl, but the motion is NOT whirl (in-out), it's butterfly (out-in). > I'm fairly sure it still receives the paradox component, even >though the first dexterity (performed with clipper foot) is outside in, as >opposed to the many paradox moves which are in-out (paradox mirage, paradox symp. >whirl, paradox drifter). Hokay... For Kevin : Barfly has 2 dexterities, same foot. Otherwise: This is not paradox. The butterfly dexterity and reverse whirl dexterity, though in the same direction, are not the same thing. If I recall, this is the point we left on during the last symposium discussion (or was it the one before last?) : can there be symposium butterfly? If there is, you'd better hope I'm not counting yer adds, because I'll make like the Grinch and steal your Christmas. Or was this thing resolved? Derrick, I yield to chicken-wisdom. My sky is apparently falling. JP ps.want a real easy five add move? boot that sucker as high as you can, spin five times and kick it again. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 15 05:55:45 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA25559 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 05:54:39 GMT Received: from caseyr@phoenix.princeton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (25371) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA25369 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 04:56:46 GMT Received: from outbound.Princeton.EDU (outbound.Princeton.EDU [128.112.128.84]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14473 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 21:57:41 -0700 Received: from ponyexpress.Princeton.EDU ([128.112.129.131]) by outbound.Princeton.EDU with ESMTP id <541695-8734>; Thu, 15 May 1997 00:57:37 -0400 Received: from tucson.Princeton.EDU (tucson.Princeton.EDU [128.112.131.153]) by ponyexpress.Princeton.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA01328; Thu, 15 May 1997 00:57:28 -0400 Received: from localhost (caseyr@localhost) by tucson.Princeton.EDU (SMI-8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA20491; Thu, 15 May 1997 00:57:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: tucson.princeton.edu: caseyr owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 00:57:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Casey G. Rothschild" To: Sean Wingert cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] RE: Cool 5-Add Move In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > You are right about symp. infinity being a good drill, but I don't mean > to confuse the two moves: this trick is simply a paradox symposium whirl, > but the motion is NOT whirl (in-out), it's butterfly (out-in). > I'm fairly sure it still receives the paradox component, even though the > first dexterity (performed with clipper foot) is outside in, as opposed to > the many paradox moves which are in-out (paradox mirage, paradox symp. > whirl, paradox drifter). > > Sean You've got me confused here. To me 'paradox syposium butterfly' means: left side (right foot) clipper set to lift left leg and put right down (no adds) out-in dex with right leg (performed w/out left leg hitting the ground) to right side clipper delay. (Which is symp. infinity) I'm not following what you mean by 'it's like a whirl but out-in vs. in out'. In terms of paradox-ness, it seems to me not to be the in-out vs. out-in that matters; only the extra change in direction (i.e. the bag goes back to the side in started from). Which makes me want to ask why (or if) paradox whirl gets the extra add - any thoughts? Casey From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 15 13:41:04 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA26775 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 13:40:57 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA26771 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 15 May 1997 13:40:55 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (26768) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA26766 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 13:40:55 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA16575 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 06:41:53 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA16691 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 08:41:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Cool 5-Add Move Message-Id: <000000168032946548516@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 07:41:55 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, May 15, 1997, 4:45:00 AM GMT Josh Penney wrote: >>>> paradox symposium butterfly >discussion (or was it the one before last?) : can there be symposium >butterfly? If there is, you'd better hope I'm not counting yer adds, >because I'll make like the Grinch and steal your Christmas. >Or was this thing resolved? Derrick, I yield to chicken-wisdom. I thought it was describing a paradox dada at first. Technically, that is 5 adds, and I consider it to be about the easiest 5-adder in the books. But there's no symposium in paradox dada; just pdx, 2 dex's, xb, delay. But on to your question: There's no official ruling, per se, that specifically includes or excludes butterfly moves from being symposium. There is some wording that indicates a symposium move should contain a significant jumping element, which Sean's move may or may not (video would help, no?). Almost nobody considers a butterfly stall done symposium to be worth another add for the symposium, though. The definition of symposium, though, does specify that once a symposium move is initiated, the symposiumness of the move must be maintained for the rest of the move. That's why many pogo-set moves do not qualify for the symposium add: because after that symposium dexterity, at some point the idle foot is planted, usually to support the final contact (pogo-style blur). There is also a specific stipulation for paradox that when you are catching the bag cross-body after a reverse-mirage (aka out-in, butterfly, reverse whirl) direction dexterity, there is no paradox. I'm still not 100% certain from the description, but I'll have to play the grinch I guess and say that it sounds like a stylish butterfly stall - no paradox add and no symposium add. What the other guy described - a paradox symposium drifter - is 5 adds, and a pretty tough move from my perspective. Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 15 14:12:00 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA26873 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:11:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA26869 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:11:57 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (26866) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA26864 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:11:57 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA16686 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 07:12:55 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA18831 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 09:12:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [freestyle] Cool X-add moves Message-Id: <000000168052946550380@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 08:13:00 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org (Freestyle Listserve) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Now, just having said all that technical blah blah woof woof bock bock = jargon about adds and move definitions and such, I want to quote something that = Eric Wulff said a while back: FREESTYLE IS ART. It's not about adds..., it is about creation. (that's a slight paraphrase, but you get the idea) If a move feels cool, and looks cool, who gives a rat's ass how many f'ing adds it is? Who is the best judge about how difficult a move is? You! You = know what it feels like to hit the move, you know what effort you put into it. =46reestyle is about how you feel when you do it, not numbers that may or = may not be assigned to your movements. If you don't need to count the number of shits you take in a week, why = would you need to count the number of adds you do in a rally? It's all so much = bean- counting that distracts us from a fundamental need to imagine and create = with our body movements. If you play with imagination and creativity, you will = be pushing yourself and expanding your limits every single day and you will = feel it - in your muscles and in your heart! Your body and a footbag together may be the best toy you will ever get to = play with in your life. And it is meant to be played with - squished and = stretched and formed and pulled apart and put back together a million times - just = like play-doh only better. Toys don't have to go a certain speed, or have = X-number of attachments, or be able to assume a specific number of shapes or do a certain number of things to provide stimulation and growth. It's not a quantity, it's an experience! So maybe I'll stop blabbering and ending every paragraph with an = exclamation point now. Keep kicking! Derrick= From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 15 14:33:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA26949 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:33:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA26945 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:33:11 GMT Received: from proshred@ix.netcom.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (26942) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA26940 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:33:10 GMT Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA16809 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 07:34:09 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA19054 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 09:34:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sjx-ca79-24.ix.netcom.com(206.214.106.216) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma019017; Thu May 15 09:33:52 1997 Message-ID: <337B2132.102E@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 07:44:02 -0700 From: Mike Niday Reply-To: proshred@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Cool X-add moves References: <000000168052946550380@mlerf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >> ...I want to quote something that Eric >> Wulff said a while back: >> >> FREESTYLE IS ART. It's not about adds..., it is about creation. And yet, do you *ever* see him guilt anymore ?? Hmmmm... :-) Mighty proshred@ix.netcom.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 15 14:57:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA27049 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:57:00 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA27045 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:57:00 GMT Received: from jelst35+@pitt.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (27042) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA27040 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:56:59 GMT Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA16923 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 07:57:58 -0700 Received: from unixs5.cis.pitt.edu (jelst35@unixs5.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.57]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Thu, 15 May 1997 10:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 10:36:57 -0400 (EDT) From: James E Leberknight X-Sender: jelst35@unixs5.cis.pitt.edu To: "Derrick Fogle, MLERF" cc: Freestyle Listserve Subject: Re: [freestyle] Cool X-add moves In-Reply-To: <000000168052946550380@mlerf.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org right on From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 15 14:59:27 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA27087 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:59:26 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA27083 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:59:25 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (27080) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA27078 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:59:25 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA16949 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 08:00:24 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA20264 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 10:00:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Cool X-add moves Message-Id: <000000168162946553230@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 09:00:30 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, May 15, 1997, 2:44:02 PM GMT Mike Niday wrote: >And yet, do you *ever* see him guilt anymore ?? Hmmmm... :-) Just goes to show you what can be accomplished by focusing on the creative and artistic aspects of freestyle, eh? He not only cuts strings of 4+ add moves, but can do it in rhythm to music; blending combos and guitar licks like lovers and timing footfalls perfectly to downbeats. I get goosebumps when I watch him freestlye. That's part of what I was trying to say. Counting the miles makes for a tedious trip, but you will still arive at your destination by just enjoying the journey - and maybe be a little bit wiser and more prepared to arrive. Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 15 15:57:50 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA27339 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 15:57:37 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA27335 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 15 May 1997 15:57:35 GMT From: delee@uism.bu.edu Received: from delee@uism.bu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (27332) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA27330 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 15:57:34 GMT Received: from BU.EDU (BU.EDU [128.197.27.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA17276 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 08:58:34 -0700 Received: from uism.bu.edu (UISM-OUT.BU.EDU [128.197.93.52]) by BU.EDU (8.6.13/) with SMTP id LAA12842 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 11:58:30 -0400 Received: from ccMail by uism.bu.edu (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA863722685; Thu, 15 May 97 11:59:06 EST Date: Thu, 15 May 97 11:59:06 EST Message-Id: <9704158637.AA863722685@uism.bu.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] move question Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org has anybody hit a reverse symposium mirage? it seems pretty impossible. how about symposium eggbeater? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 15 16:26:15 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA27504 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 16:26:14 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA27500 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 15 May 1997 16:26:12 GMT Received: from crvich@raleigh.ibm.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (27497) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA27495 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 16:26:12 GMT Received: from socks2.raleigh.ibm.com (socks2.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.123]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA17445 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 09:27:11 -0700 Received: from rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com by socks2.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/RTP-FW1.0) id AA37178; Thu, 15 May 1997 12:26:29 -0400 Received: from ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (ode1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.178.164]) by rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id MAA28444 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 12:26:29 -0400 Received: by ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA44528; Thu, 15 May 1997 12:26:27 -0400 From: crvich@raleigh.ibm.com (Ernest Crvich) Message-Id: <9705151626.AA44528@ode1.raleigh.ibm.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] move question To: freestyle@footbag.org (Freestyle) Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:26:26 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <9704158637.AA863722685@uism.bu.edu> from "delee@uism.bu.edu" at May 15, 97 11:59:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > has anybody hit a reverse symposium mirage? Although I don't practice symposium moves anymore (shin torture!), I have hit this one in the past. It's not too awfully hard (though certainly harder than regular symp mirage). A good set is essential (I set lower and jump sooner than with regular symp mirage). > about symposium eggbeater? Don't even wanna try. 8-) I feel sure Tuan's hit it though, among others. -- Ernest M. Crvich Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 15 21:37:16 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA28951 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 May 1997 21:36:51 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA28947 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 15 May 1997 21:36:49 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (28944) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA28942 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 21:36:48 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA19814 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:37:45 -0700 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id QIG23544; Thu, 15 May 1997 16:57:06 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Cc: crvich@raliegh.ibm.com, delee@uism.bu.edu Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 16:52:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [freestyle] move question Message-ID: <19970515.165316.4790.1.dervish@juno.com> References: <9704158637.AA863722685@uism.bu.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,6,8,12-18 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 15 May 97 11:59:06 EST delee@uism.bu.edu writes: >has anybody hit a reverse symposium mirage? it seems pretty >impossible. how about symposium eggbeater? Oh, yes. Welcome to my little world, where the body goes, "ouch" but the legs go "wahooo". Symposium reverse mirage is my forte. Hell, it's my five-and-six-te, too. I've hit symposium eggbeater a few times, but I don't school it - it is seriously shin-tensive. I'm also working on a 'flux' variation : -0 symposium reverse mirage to osis... I was thinking of calling it "scalpel". Are you down with the sickness or would you like to learn? just think symposium whirl, lean forward and make like Michael Jordan. Good luck and please report any sucesses to me. -JP ps. Stand back, I may have to operate. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri May 16 15:25:36 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00411 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 May 1997 15:22:16 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00407 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 16 May 1997 15:22:14 GMT From: delee@uism.bu.edu Received: from delee@uism.bu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (404) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00402 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 15:22:14 GMT Received: from BU.EDU (BU.EDU [128.197.27.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA24706 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 08:22:09 -0700 Received: from uism.bu.edu (UISM-OUT.BU.EDU [128.197.93.52]) by BU.EDU (8.6.13/) with SMTP id LAA20715 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 11:21:58 -0400 Received: from ccMail by uism.bu.edu (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA863806904; Fri, 16 May 97 11:22:00 EST Date: Fri, 16 May 97 11:22:00 EST Message-Id: <9704168638.AA863806904@uism.bu.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move question Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org so do you have to circle the bag while it's on the way up? i can't seem to grasp the concept. any other suggestions? your talking about setting it from toe, right? i have the feeling it doesn't feel like a normal symposium mirage? thanks Dennis _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: [freestyle] move question From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) at SMTPOUT Date: 5/15/97 7:24 PM On Thu, 15 May 97 11:59:06 EST delee@uism.bu.edu writes: >has anybody hit a reverse symposium mirage? it seems pretty >impossible. how about symposium eggbeater? Oh, yes. Welcome to my little world, where the body goes, "ouch" but the legs go "wahooo". Symposium reverse mirage is my forte. Hell, it's my five-and-six-te, too. I've hit symposium eggbeater a few times, but I don't school it - it is seriously shin-tensive. I'm also working on a 'flux' variation : -0 symposium reverse mirage to osis... I was thinking of calling it "scalpel". Are you down with the sickness or would you like to learn? just think symposium whirl, lean forward and make like Michael Jordan. Good luck and please report any sucesses to me. -JP ps. Stand back, I may have to operate. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri May 16 16:59:27 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00800 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 May 1997 16:58:53 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00796 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 16 May 1997 16:58:51 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (793) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00791 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 16:58:50 GMT Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA25237 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 09:58:51 -0700 Received: from [204.148.85.117] (d117.dialnet1.interaccess.com [204.148.85.117]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id LAA13644; Fri, 16 May 1997 11:57:02 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:10:26 -0700 To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF), freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Cool 5-Add Move Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Everyone! >There is also a specific stipulation for paradox that when you are catching >the bag cross-body after a reverse-mirage (aka out-in, butterfly, reverse >whirl) direction dexterity, there is no paradox. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that stipulation make the Paradox Reverse Drifter (which is nearly friggin impossible and ABSOLUTELY paradox) a non-paradox move? Same with Paradox Reverse Torque (which is same explatives as PRD)? What up? See ya! Scott Davidson P.S. Don't forget to come to Midwest Regionals on June 13-15... O'Hare is one of the easiest airports to get to, and cheap too! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri May 16 17:16:24 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00929 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 May 1997 17:16:24 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00925 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 16 May 1997 17:16:21 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (922) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00918 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 17:16:21 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25457 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 10:16:22 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA14237 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 12:16:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Cool 5-Add Move Message-Id: <000000168712946647784@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 11:16:24 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, May 16, 1997, 7:10:26 PM GMT Scott Davidson wrote: >>There is also a specific stipulation for paradox that when you are catching >Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that stipulation make the Paradox No and Yes. My explanation was a little lacking. The stipulation is 'final cross-body contact with non-setting foot.' That validates Pdx-Rev-Drifter, but not Pdx-Rev-Torque. I guess we'll just have to go back to work on our definition. I can see stipulations relating to the bag 'passing back across the original set position,' or maybe 'any add- garnering spin that is opposite the initial pivot/rotation required to initiate the paradox' as another paradox validation, but I sure as hell don't want to have to word it. We should let Steve work on it first; he's pretty good at coming up with some reasonable wording that doesn't mangle the original intent. Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri May 16 18:29:50 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01210 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 May 1997 18:29:44 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01206 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 16 May 1997 18:29:42 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1203) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01201 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 18:29:41 GMT Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA25955 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 11:29:43 -0700 Received: from [204.148.85.117] (d117.dialnet1.interaccess.com [204.148.85.117]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id NAA09777; Fri, 16 May 1997 13:27:54 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:41:17 -0700 To: delee@uism.bu.edu, freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Kickers Quarterly - Formerly (Re: [freestyle] move question) Cc: fatty@chicago.avenew.com Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Everyone! >has anybody hit a reverse symposium mirage? it seems pretty impossible. how >about symposium eggbeater? Nate Oates does it, he is getting pretty insane (symposium whirl to cross-body sole). He is on the cover of the Kickers Quarterly, a new publication for footbag players. The first issue contains lots of awesome photos and cool feature articles like: "Footbag News" - Whats happening in the world of footbag... "Freestyle Enlightenment" - An in-depth series of articles by Scott Davidson "Interviews" - This month is P.T. Lovern, former Intermediate Doubles Net World Champion. Next issue? Who knows... "Upcoming Events" - Guess what this section is about. "Reviews from the Fat Man" - Music reviews from Phatty Matty Sweeny. Plus many other interesting tid bits and stories from street culture. Free plugs for WFA and footbag worldwide (a whole page of web site links). They want to publish your footbag event, so make sure you notify them ASAP! Advertising supporters include: adidas footbags, Sipa Sipa, Twisted footbags, Hu-Mungis Footbags, UltraGroove Clothing and Adams Apple (among other smaller sponsors). Special offer: Free issue for your club, if you promise to pass it around to all your footbag friends and club members for their perusal. The USAFL appreciates your support in helping get this off the ground. _________________________________ To get a yearly subscription to KQ (US$12 [or more] for 4 issues, like clockwork... more in Canada), make a check payable to "Scot Hansen", fill out the following form and mail to: USAFL (United Schwa Awareness Foundation for Life) P.O. Box 3480 Glen Ellyn, IL 60138-3480 Official Kickers Quarterly Order Form: Full Name: ____________________________ Street Address: ____________________________ City, State, Zip: ____________________________ Phone Number: ____________________________ Club Affiliation: ____________________________ Age (Optional): ____________________________ Call the USAFL anyime, toll-free at 888-255-4576. or email to: kickersquarterly@chicago.avenew.com Personal endorsement: The first issue looks GREAT! These guys really put their hearts into this, they not only believe in the sport of footbag, they live it! I urge you to give them your support by subscribing today. Scott Davidson Footbag Freestyler Midwest Regionals Co-Director From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat May 17 01:49:53 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA02903 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 17 May 1997 01:49:45 GMT Received: from lmonti@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1064) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01062 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 17:58:31 GMT Received: from muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us ([156.1.240.40]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25700 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 10:58:32 -0700 Received: from [156.1.220.33] ([156.1.220.33]) by muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00466; Fri, 16 May 1997 09:56:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199705161656.JAA00466@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 10:03:17 -0800 To: delee@uism.bu.edu From: lmonti@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us (Lisa Monti) Subject: Re: [freestyle] move question Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >has anybody hit a reverse symposium mirage? how about symposium eggbeater? I've hit both those moves, but I don't particulary like to do it often because it's a lot of impact on the body. When my ankles feel up to it, I'd like to hit fusion with a symposium reverse mirage. Has anyone tried that yet? Tuan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat May 17 05:22:49 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA03630 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 17 May 1997 05:22:42 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA03626 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 17 May 1997 05:22:40 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3623) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA03621 for ; Sat, 17 May 1997 05:22:39 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA28892 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 22:22:45 -0700 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA13815; Fri, 16 May 1997 22:22:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 22:22:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Verhoef Anne To: Lisa Monti cc: delee@uism.bu.edu, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move question In-Reply-To: <199705161656.JAA00466@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sat, 17 May 1997, Lisa Monti wrote: > >has anybody hit a reverse symposium mirage? how about symposium eggbeater? > > > I've hit both those moves, but I don't particulary like to do it often > because it's a lot of impact on the body. When my ankles feel up to it, > I'd like to hit fusion with a symposium reverse mirage. Has anyone tried > that yet? >Tuan Would that be a symp reverse miraging double down? That's crazy! Adrian > > -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat May 17 09:15:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA04123 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 17 May 1997 09:15:45 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA04119 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 17 May 1997 09:15:43 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4116) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA04114 for ; Sat, 17 May 1997 09:15:42 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA29727 for ; Sat, 17 May 1997 02:15:49 -0700 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA278450548; Sat, 17 May 1997 04:15:48 -0500 Received: from [204.214.28.31] (p1-31.top.net) by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA051850546; Sat, 17 May 1997 04:15:46 -0500 X-Sender: swingert@bluejay.creighton.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:29:01 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: swingert@creighton.edu (Sean Wingert) Subject: [freestyle] Regarding the 5-Add Move (PSB) that My Sister "Invented" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org While I do agree with Eric Wulff's statement--which Derrick brought up--I want to mention one thing: numbers (counting Adds) and art (freestyle expression) are not always mutually exclusive. For example, look at a mandelbrot or fractal program, very beautiful representations of numbers and calculations. That is ALL I will say about this particular point since that thread could continue for weeks ;-) I have 3 objections to the criticisms against the Paradox Symposium Buttefly (PSB) possibility: First of all, I see no difference between a whirl and butterfly stall. Both moves are an outside in dexterity, even though in the butterfly, the bag travels under the hamstring as opposed to behind the ankle for whirl. Other than this (which is irrelevant to the dexterity direction anyway), there is, in my mind, no difference between the two moves. This is in opposition to Josh's comment "The butterfly dexterity and reverse whirl dexterity, though in the same direction, are not the same thing." My second objection is the "No Paradox" problem: the ONLY difference between a paradox symposium whirl (PSW) and a paradox symposium butterfly (PSB)--assuming such a trick exists--is the *dexterity*. But Derrick, Josh, and Casey are saying that this out-in dexterity in PSB REMOVES the paradox element, and to me this sounds completely counterintuitve. The way I understand paradox, the initial dexterity foot MUST be the clipper foot *regardless* of the direction of dexterity. For example, there are both (1) paradox mirage (in-out) and (2) paradox reverse mirage (out-in); these two are BOTH paradox according to the above definition. But, now we are saying that because there is a dexterity change between PSW and PSB, the latter isn't paradox. How could PSW/PSB be different from Paradox Mirage/Paradox Reverse Mirage simply in this regard? My third objection is the "no Symposium" criticism. I see no reason why Symposium Butterfly is not a legitimate trick. Granted, it is considerably easy for 4-Adds, but *ease*, as many other footbaggers have pointed out, often has little correspondance to the Add system we know and love :-) As far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong here Derrick, a symposium buttefly fits the definition of symposium. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Derrick wrote: >There is also a specific stipulation for paradox that when you are catching >the bag cross-body after a reverse-mirage (aka out-in, butterfly, reverse >whirl) direction dexterity, there is no paradox. The stipulation is 'final cross-body contact with non-setting foot.' If we accept this exclusion, Barfly would be explained (since it would NOT be a paradox (out-in) nor would PSB). I would agree to accept this exlusion for simplicity's sake alone, but it this stipulation seems counterintuitive: see #2 above. I bet that the answer to this whole mess lies in the "definition" of paradox. Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat May 17 14:25:22 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA04744 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 17 May 1997 14:23:54 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA04740 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 17 May 1997 14:23:52 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4737) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA04735 for ; Sat, 17 May 1997 14:23:51 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA30599 for ; Sat, 17 May 1997 07:24:01 -0700 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id KzX22113; Sat, 17 May 1997 10:22:59 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 10:18:57 -0400 Subject: [freestyle] The re-hash... why bother? Message-ID: <19970517.101858.3574.1.dervish@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-8,10-15,17,20,23-38 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 16 May 1997 15:29:01 -0600 swingert@creighton.edu (Sean Wingert) writes: Hi Sean; > This is in >opposition to Josh's comment "The butterfly dexterity and reverse >whirl dexterity, though in the same direction, are not the same thing." This statement stems from my innate ability to nail 20+infinities, but nary ever a whirl/reverse whirl. Ask anyone. >The way I >understand GOOGLIE, the initial dexterity foot MUST be the clipper >foot *regardless* of the direction of dexterity. Well, is this a "why are things considered GOOGLIE?" or "why aren't they?" discussion. GOOGLIE isn't a term applied to virtually anything, it's a classification of only a few moves which already exist (mirage whirl, drifter, torque). Yes, I'm balking. Part of the reason be the 180-degree dexterity. the GOOGLIE-reverse generally follows the fish, or 360-degree dex variety. And it follows (except in the case of whirl) mirages. >as many other footbaggers have pointed out, >often has little correspondance to the Add system we know and love :-) That would (tootin' my own horn) usually be me. > I bet that the answer to this whole mess lies in the "definition" >of paradox. Hey, haven't I seen this episode already?!!? Yeah, I think I actually have it on tape somewhere. : ) -JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat May 17 20:53:02 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05661 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 17 May 1997 20:51:36 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05657 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 17 May 1997 20:51:34 GMT Received: from kenned57@pilot.msu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5654) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA05652 for ; Sat, 17 May 1997 20:51:34 GMT Received: from pilot14.cl.msu.edu (pilot14.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.24]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA31969 for ; Sat, 17 May 1997 13:51:46 -0700 Received: (kenned57@localhost) by pilot14.cl.msu.edu (8.7.5/MSU-2.10) id QAA171520; Sat, 17 May 1997 16:51:45 -0400 Message-Id: <199705172051.QAA171520@pilot14.cl.msu.edu> Subject: [freestyle] move question To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 16:51:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Cameron Dean Kennedy" In-Reply-To: from "Sean Wingert" at May 16, 97 03:29:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sean mentioned paradox reverse mirage in one of his posts. Does paradox reverse mirage fit the definition of a paradox move?, I thought the dexterity had to be of the inside-out type to be paradox. thanks -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Cameron D Kennedy | An Analogy : | coming soon to 1668 E Grand river | the tiny boat drifted gently and| a Salk institute apt 155 ph 337-9470 |smoothly across the pond, exactly| near you . . . E Lansing MI 48827 |the way the government wouldn't | . . .me ______________________|_http://pilot.msu.edu/~kenned57/______________________ there is a big art fair in E. Lansing this weekend, with lots of people and all of the streets blocked off. Free parking on campus, great opp. to showcase your talents for a large number of people that have nothing better to do than look at crafts. I played for a while today and had a generous flow of compliments, i will be kicking at the corner of MAC and albert Sunday around 2:00. three stages and live music were availiable today and yesterday, but i don't know about tomarrow. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon May 19 14:45:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA12100 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 May 1997 14:44:54 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA12096 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 19 May 1997 14:44:52 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12093) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA12091 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 14:44:51 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA08214 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 07:45:21 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA14854 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 09:45:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Regarding the 5-Add Move (PSB) that My Sister "Invented" Message-Id: <000000171572946897935@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 08:45:35 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, May 16, 1997, 9:29:01 PM GMT Sean Wingert wrote: >expression) are not always mutually exclusive. Bingo! ...You have just one the PRIZE. >and Casey are saying that this out-in dexterity in PSB REMOVES the paradox Virtually everyone (except me) believes the essence of paradox is a certain double-hip pivot required to hit paradox moves. Of course, the problem with that is many moves that aren't considered paradox have that element, and some that are don't. Rather that coming up with a vague, murky, subjectively- determined "how much double-pivot = paradox" definition, we went with the old, leg-motion based 'commonly accepted' definition of paradox, and tried to bend it to make it fit, just so there was a concrete way to determine paradoxness. (ha ha!) > My third objection is the "no Symposium" criticism. I see no reason why >Symposium Butterfly is not a legitimate trick. Granted, it is considerably I think it is, but this is just another example of the add rating system ignoring its own structure to cope with anomolies. You think too much, Sean. Just put on your lavers, go to the BAPtist church, listen to the preaching of the Shredtures. Suggesting that a move that has a defined add element get that add, or that the direction of a dexterity or final contact foot should either make a difference or not consistently, is heresy. You will be branded as a sinner, and your pennance will be to serve on the IFAB freestyle committee and sacrifice your principles to produce a rulebook. Good luck in your journey of seeing that my tongue is planted firmly in my cheek. Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon May 19 16:57:45 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA12787 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 May 1997 16:57:38 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA12783 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 19 May 1997 16:57:38 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12780) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA12778 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 16:57:37 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09154; Mon, 19 May 1997 09:58:03 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000000171572946897935@mlerf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 09:55:01 -0700 To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Regarding the 5-Add Move (PSB) that My Sister "Invented" Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 7:45 AM -0700 5/19/97, Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: >You think too much, Sean. Just put on your lavers, go to the BAPtist church, >listen to the preaching of the Shredtures. Suggesting that a move that has a >defined add element get that add, or that the direction of a dexterity or >final contact foot should either make a difference or not consistently, is >heresy. You will be branded as a sinner, But how true Derrick's words are, my friends. Hallelujah and praise be the almighty Shults. For He hath invented the moves and He writeth the holy rules that the rest of us must(eth) follow. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon May 19 17:17:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA13006 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 May 1997 17:17:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA13002 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 19 May 1997 17:17:09 GMT Received: from kenned57@pilot.msu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12999) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA12997 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 17:17:08 GMT Received: from pilot14.cl.msu.edu (pilot14.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.24]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09363 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 10:17:39 -0700 Received: (kenned57@localhost) by pilot14.cl.msu.edu (8.7.5/MSU-2.10) id NAA21627; Mon, 19 May 1997 13:17:29 -0400 Message-Id: <199705191717.NAA21627@pilot14.cl.msu.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Systems question (fwd) To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 13:17:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Cameron Dean Kennedy" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I recieved the fo1llowing question from JP and was quite sure it was intended to be sent to the list, so here . . . Josh wrote > < > I almost hit Bubba-legover today. Interestingly, it is the non-paradox > version of the clipper-set-eggbeater, because of the nature of the 2nd > leg dexterity. > > so : = paradox eggbeater (4add) > and: = bubba legover |aka| clipper set > eggbeater (3add) > > Can you guess which is more difficult? > Actually, they're both pretty close. But this ADD = "degree of > difficulty" is starting to irk me. > Get this : > For everyone, specific movements are easier/more difficult. My build my > not be just right for drifters, or I could have a bad ankle which > prevents me from same leg double dexterities. > If said movements are of varying difficulty for different people, then > how can a system exist to rate these movements by difficulty? > Just asking. > > -JP > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - my reply is that by rating moves by components, we can assign an agreeable value to each move a lot easier than by taking votes from every one who plays the sport on the difficulty rating each move should recieve. If done, we would still have the same problem, because different moves are harder/easier for different people. obviously the ADD system has flaws, but it generally provides a rough estimate of difficulty. -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Cameron D Kennedy | An Analogy : | 1668 E Grand river | the tiny boat drifted gently and| Go Wings apt 155 ph 337-9470 |smoothly across the pond, exactly| E Lansing MI 48827 |the way the government wouldn't | ______________________|_http://pilot.msu.edu/~kenned57/_|____________________ From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon May 19 17:29:43 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA13056 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 May 1997 17:29:42 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA13052 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 19 May 1997 17:29:41 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (13049) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA13047 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 17:29:41 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09460; Mon, 19 May 1997 10:30:02 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199705191717.NAA21627@pilot14.cl.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:29:41 -0700 To: "Cameron Dean Kennedy" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Systems question Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:17 AM -0700 5/19/97, Cameron Dean Kennedy wrote: >Josh Penney Wrote: >> If said movements are of varying difficulty for different people, then >> how can a system exist to rate these movements by difficulty? > >my reply is that by rating moves by components, we can assign an agreeable >value to each move a lot easier than by taking votes from every one who plays >the sport on the difficulty rating each move should recieve. I repeat myself (again): We sit here on this list and, almost ad nauseum (okay, not almost) debate the intricacies of the current add system, but in reality that add system is only fully used in TWO (or three) freestyle competitions: the World Championships and the Western Regionals (and possibly one other?). I think something we really oughtta debate on this list is how to DESCRIBE moves, not how to rate them. We seem to have a lot of trouble discussing how to hit moves on this list. Let's delve into that some more. Let's come up with a FAQ that we can send out periodically so that new members on the list don't start writing move descriptions using random, totally made-up systems. I can imagine such a FAQ describing the concepts, such as Paradox and Symposium, not in terms of their effect on the add system, but in terms of the actual variations on the moves they are considered the paradox and symposium versions of. More later when I'm not trying to get a 20-page program printed for Western Regionals this weekend. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon May 19 17:37:13 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA13121 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 May 1997 17:37:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA13117 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 19 May 1997 17:37:07 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (13114) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA13112 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 17:37:07 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09530 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 10:37:38 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA20795 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 12:37:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Systems question (fwd) Message-Id: <000000172102946908276@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 11:37:56 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, May 19, 1997, 5:17:26 PM GMT Cameron Dean Kennedy wrote: >I recieved the fo1llowing question from JP... >my reply is that by rating moves by components, we can assign an agreeable >value to each move a lot easier than by taking votes from every one who At least the add system mostly evaluates the interaction with the footbag - the unique thing about footbag! But any system designed to determine winners and losers in a competition is just an arbitrary value system given structure. There are enough inconsistencies with the application of the current system that I consider it as much a joke as anything. But when you have competitions, you have to decide who wins and loses, and the add system accomplishes that task. But I wonder sometimes what freestyle would be like today if the early pioneers were really into gymnastics and acrobatics, and flying contacts remained a highly valued skill. Flying flipping contacts and 'zontal barrel roll moves would be so cool and exciting to watch! Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon May 19 20:05:54 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA14161 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 May 1997 20:05:38 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA14157 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 19 May 1997 20:05:36 GMT Received: from vander@auburn.campus.mci.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (14154) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA14152 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 20:05:33 GMT Received: from aus-c.mp.campus.mci.net (aus-c.mp.campus.mci.net [208.140.84.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10652 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 13:06:05 -0700 Received: from 206.30.222.30 (s01-pm01.auburn.campus.mci.net [206.30.222.30]) by aus-c.mp.campus.mci.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA02201 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 16:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3380C07B.30C6@auburn.campus.mci.net> Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:05:00 -0600 From: "Kevin J. Vanderwall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Acrobatics Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Speaking of flipping moves, a player at the Alabama Outdoor Footbag Championships did a backflipping lap stall. Quite impressive. The bag makes contact at the apex of the jump while he was inverted. Not to mention that he was a beginner. It ended up saving his routine for 3rd place. Kev. (AuburnU.F.O.) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon May 19 23:37:00 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA15063 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 May 1997 23:36:48 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA15059 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 19 May 1997 23:36:46 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (15056) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA15054 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 23:36:45 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA12165 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 16:37:18 -0700 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA186225033; Mon, 19 May 1997 18:37:13 -0500 Received: from [204.214.28.150] (p1-150.top.net) by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA275865030; Mon, 19 May 1997 18:37:10 -0500 X-Sender: swingert@bluejay.creighton.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 05:50:33 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: swingert@creighton.edu (Sean Wingert) Subject: [freestyle] TwIstEd Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Regarding the PSB & PSW... Somewhere there is a problem. Suppose PSB exists. The only difference between PSB and PSW is one little tiny thing: dexterity. Yet dexterity makes the latter 5 Adds and the former 4, possibly only 3, Adds. My objection is that this seems counterintuitive because both moves fit the paradox definition--that is, without the appended exclusion that the "final cross-body contact with non-setting foot" negates paradox. I disagree with this exclusion because it makes the *concept* of paradox provisional. The other footbag concepts lack such seemingly arbitrary provisions: mirage, pixie, and fairy as examples. But, without that provision, the Paradox has at least 2 problems: (1) the PSB (3-adds) vs. PSW (5-Adds) debate, (2) Barfly--what kind of paradox is that? Here is my solution to this mess: I propose that we create a "twist" category (1 Add) for all those moves in which (1) the clipper performs the first dexterity, but (2) either the person plants that foot before the dex. OR no double hip twist is involved--this is not itself a provision, it is the *definition*. This designation would (1) change paradox whirl to "twisted" whirl (3 adds), (2) PSW to Twisted Symposium Whirl 5-Add (because of the plant), and (3) PSB to "Twisted Symposium Butterfly" 5-Add (then we could debate the existence of Symposium Butterfly :-)). The beauty of this tentative naming scheme is that it leaves "classic" paradox moves alone: Paradox Torque is still paradox, and so is Paradox Mirage. Paradox Reverse Mirage would change though to become Twisted Reverse Mirage. This scheme would solve those two problems which currently face Paradox: (1) PSB has a new name but retains the 5-Add ratio, even though we freestylers would concede it to be an "easy" 5-Add move (just like Dada Curve is an "easy" 4-Add move), and (2) barfly, since it lacks the double hip movement, becomes Twisted Butterfly. Paradox would no longer have any provisions; the movements would define the trick in the same way that the pixie, mirage, and fairy are all defined by the movements *without* provisions. Other examples: Paradox Reverse Drifter does not change since there is a double hip movement, nor would Paradox Reverse Torque for the same reason. Paradox Symposium Whirl becomes Twisted Symposium whirl (5-Adds). Paradox drifter remains the same, as does Paradox Torque. Paradox Whirling Swirl becomes Twisted Whirling Swirl (5-Adds). My biggest concern here is that "Paradox" is ill-defined, attempting to encompass too much. In order to compensate for that daunting task, we have to make provisions which seem counterintuitive (the negation of PSB & Paradox Rev. Torque). So, I propose we reduce the scope of the concept and use "Twisted" for where Paradox lacks. I would even go so far as to negate Paradox from all tricks in which a plant is required before the clipper performs the initial dex (although let's talk about this later...) I know this approach is going to take some heat, so let me have it :-) Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue May 20 13:51:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA02115 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 May 1997 13:50:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA02111 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 20 May 1997 13:50:54 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2108) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA02106 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 13:50:54 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA15728 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 06:50:57 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA04836 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 08:50:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] TwIstEd Message-Id: <000000173102946981075@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 07:51:15 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, May 19, 1997, 11:50:33 AM GMT Sean Wingert wrote: > Here is my solution to this mess: I propose that we create a "twist" >category (1 Add) for all those moves in which (1) the clipper performs the You are now required to submit your resume and application to the IFAB. You must get 5 'signatures' from current members (Here's mine: Bock Bock). You are required to attend the annual meeting, where we will vote you in and mercilessly draft you to the freestyle committee. You then will spend the rest of your life arguing semantics with Goldberg and myself, and trying to refute the impeccable "This is how it is" logic of Davidson. We'll form a paradox subcommittee, where we will bicker and propose and counterpropose, like drops of water on your forhead, until you scream with madness in your heart and soul, "Just print something, damnit, Just PRINT SOMETHING!!!" I'll see you there... 8-{) Derrick PS If you fail to take the above measures, we will kidnap you, lock you in a room without your footbag, and only let you come out and kick on Tuesdays and Fridays when you have been a good boy and recited the correct definition of Paradox 1,000 times. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue May 20 17:58:50 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA04008 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 May 1997 17:58:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA04004 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 20 May 1997 17:58:31 GMT Received: from aloe@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4001) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA03999 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 17:58:30 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16981 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 10:58:36 -0700 Received: (from aloe@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA09485; Tue, 20 May 1997 10:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 10:58:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Juliet Pendray Subject: [freestyle] 'art of freestyle To: dfogle@mlerf.org cc: freestyle@footbag.org, aloe@vcn.bc.ca Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sort of related to what you are discussing... What are the chances that some day there will be a completely separate new freestyle event that focuses on the art/theatre/choreography of a routine, as distinct from the add count & etc? ...similar to events in gymnastics, skating competitions. At Worlds last year, one doubles team for example (Justin and _____ of Finland) did an amazing routine that included IMO the best choreography-to-music, theatrical interpretation, amongst other stellar qualities...of the competition. We, the audience, loved it! High level of communication with the audience, which is a part of judging considerations in other sport/art competitions. I don't know how they placed, but in a different freestyle event, they would've kicked ass! Given the large numbers of freestylers that do have these skills, it would be so cool if there was an event in which these could be employed. And certainly to the benefit of the sport of footbag in general...etc...etc... Whaddya think? Juliet From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue May 20 19:52:18 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA04830 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 May 1997 19:52:17 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA04826 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 20 May 1997 19:52:15 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4823) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA04821 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 19:52:15 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17711 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 12:52:21 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13776 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 14:52:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] 'art of freestyle Message-Id: <000000174272947002757@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 13:52:37 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, May 20, 1997, 5:58:19 PM GMT Juliet Pendray wrote: >these skills, it would be so cool if there was an event in which these >could be employed. And certainly to the benefit of the sport of Boy, I can really waffle on this issue! 8-{) On one side, footbag is for footbag players, and if motion/trick density is what footbag players are into, that is what we should do and evaluate for ourselves. BUT... I personally find tricks by themselves pretty boring. All these shred tapes that people get excited about put me to sleep. Any line there might be between performing and prostitution seems awfully blurry to me. We've bantered around having 2 different types of rounds at worlds; one that focuses solely on technical proficiency, and one that focuses solely on presentation. But the application of that concept would be pretty unwieldy. It seems like the whole thing will resolve itself; more and more players are capable of integrating very significant portions of both sides into their performances. With the top handful of pros all able to more or less max the comp cards, the performance aspect becomes more important, since that area remains subjective and works on a relative basis. Some highly add-oriented players might piss & moan about this, but I think it is just about right. If I had my druthers, I would give competitions the shaft alltogether. Just get everyone together, your time limit is the length of your entire song, and you can keep the stage running all day long with a first-come, first-up basis. As soon as Sugar Daddy Footbags comes through with a big fistful of money to pay for all the player's travel expenses, time, and a little extra, this Freestyle Exposition will happen with a bang. Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue May 20 20:33:51 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05173 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:33:44 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05168 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:33:42 GMT From: swingert@creighton.edu Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5165) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA05163 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:33:41 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA17946 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 13:33:47 -0700 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA114890417; Tue, 20 May 1997 15:33:38 -0500 Received: from localhost by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA225480413; Tue, 20 May 1997 15:33:33 -0500 Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:33:33 -0500 (CDT) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] TwIstEd (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 08:46:18 -0600 From: "Derrick Fogle, MLERF" To: Sean Wingert Subject: Re: [freestyle] TwIstEd On Mon, May 19, 1997, 11:50:33 AM GMT Sean Wingert wrote: >Regarding the PSB & PSW... Now that I've made fun of us arguing this, I'll put in my voice: First, I still think the essence of paradox is ....well, nevermind. You assert that PSB has the double-hip rotation commonly acclaimed as the essence of paradox, right? I don't know, I've never done it and still can't kick yet after harshing my ankle over 4 weeks ago. Who else out there has tried this? What does everyone else think - - does it "feel" paradox? I've never though that ANY out-in dexterity should qualify for paradox; I classify pdx reverse mirage as a window problem, not a hip gyration problem (so you may not get a great deal of sympathy from me on this). But because we are powerless to change anything that already is, the paradox definition that got written really does cover 2 or 3 distinctly different types of motions. > Here is my solution to this mess: I propose that we create a "twist" >category (1 Add) for all those moves in which (1) the clipper performs We already have a "Body" category, which should suffice to cover body motions in relationship to the footbag. What we don't have is a "window" category, most commonly where the dexterity leg has to travel between the footbag and the final contact foot around or after the footbag reaches it's apex (pdx rev mirage). I tried to write a definition for paradox that defined and semi-quantified the actual double-hip rotation concept, but that was shot down because it would have allowed outside and sole set mirages to be paradox mirages and possibly even paradox around-the-worlds (gasp!) to exist, and by gawd we can't have that! And by the way, I agree with you - if paradox is a body element, and putting a foot down on the backside makes a difference whether it is paradox (mirage vs atw), a plant between the set and the first dexterity should also make a difference: you plant, no paradox (bye bye 4-add blurs)! > My biggest concern here is that "Paradox" is ill-defined, attempting to That would be, let's see... One Right! Just remember the following quote from Tina Lewis: "Just because its stupid doesn't mean it won't happen." Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue May 20 20:35:17 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05200 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:35:16 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05196 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:35:15 GMT Received: from vander@auburn.campus.mci.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5193) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA05191 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:35:15 GMT Received: from aus-d.mp.campus.mci.net (aus-d.mp.campus.mci.net [208.140.84.24]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA17961 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 13:35:22 -0700 Received: from 206.31.64.53 (s24-pm05.auburn.campus.mci.net [206.31.64.53]) by aus-d.mp.campus.mci.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA14601 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 16:32:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33821905.21EE@auburn.campus.mci.net> Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:35:01 -0600 From: "Kevin J. Vanderwall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Europe. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I'm going to Europe on June 5 and I was wondering if anyone knows where there might be people kicking in the more noteworthy cities. I'll be flying into Amsterdam, then going through Germany, Italy, France, Ect. Thanks. Kev. (A.U.F.O.) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue May 20 20:50:06 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05296 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:50:06 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA05292 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:50:05 GMT From: swingert@creighton.edu Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5289) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA05287 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:50:05 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA18030 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 13:50:11 -0700 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA144330522; Tue, 20 May 1997 15:35:22 -0500 Received: from localhost by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA227770521; Tue, 20 May 1997 15:35:21 -0500 Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:35:21 -0500 (CDT) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] TwIstEd (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:02:51 -0500 (CDT) From: swingert@creighton.edu To: "Derrick Fogle, MLERF" , swingert@creighton.edu Subject: Re: [freestyle] TwIstEd On Tue, 20 May 1997, Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: > You assert that PSB has the double-hip rotation commonly acclaimed as the > essence of paradox, right? I don't know, I've never done it and still can't > kick yet after harshing my ankle over 4 weeks ago. Who else out there has > tried this? What does everyone else think - - does it "feel" paradox? Well, not quite. I don't believe that PSB has a double hip rotation, even though I believe the double hit rotation is essential for paradox. So to me, PSB does *not* get Paradox, but it should get something because it is more difficult than a symposium butterfly. What I propose is that it gets a new category which I tentatively named "twist." > I've never though that ANY out-in dexterity should qualify for paradox; I > classify pdx reverse mirage as a window problem, not a hip gyration problem > (so you may not get a great deal of sympathy from me on this). But because we > are powerless to change anything that already is, the paradox definition that > got written really does cover 2 or 3 distinctly different types of motions. I agree with you on this, primarily because an out-in dex eliminates the double hip movement which I consider essential to Paradox. It is definately a problem, so I propose that we create a new category to eliminate it. > > Here is my solution to this mess: I propose that we create a "twist" > >category (1 Add) for all those moves in which (1) the clipper performs > > We already have a "Body" category, which should suffice to cover body motions > in relationship to the footbag. What we don't have is a "window" category, > most commonly where the dexterity leg has to travel between the footbag and > the final contact foot around or after the footbag reaches it's apex (pdx rev > mirage). This is right on!!! This is what I am talking about! You call it "window" and I am calling it "twist." Twist, to me, has only ONE hip rotation (twist), as does pdx rev mirage. This sounds like your "window" category. I originally added that the immediate plant of the clipper foot should be included in "twist." I don't agree with that anymore. I think the immediate plant of the clipper foot (as in pdx symp whirl) is another problem--we can deal with it later :-) > I tried to write a definition for paradox that defined and semi-quantified the > actual double-hip rotation concept, but that was shot down because it would > have allowed outside and sole set mirages to be paradox mirages and possibly > even paradox around-the-worlds (gasp!) to exist, and by gawd we can't have > that! Well, I think that pdx ATW does exist, it just happens to be easy. We should clarify, not reinvent, the definition of Paradox. And, anyway, what is so terrible about Paradox from outside set or from a sole? > And by the way, I agree with you - if paradox is a body element, and putting a > foot down on the backside makes a difference whether it is paradox (mirage vs > atw), a plant between the set and the first dexterity should also make a > difference: you plant, no paradox (bye bye 4-add blurs)! I completely agree! A plant destroys paradox, but maybe it creates something else (that way a Blur still gets 4-adds, but the "paradox" component of Blur changes). So, in summary, I think that what you call "window," I might be calling "twist." Examples of the "twist", and possibly "window," scheme: 1. paradox whirl ----> twisted whirl ----> 4 adds (not 3 I said earlier) 2. paradox torque ---> paradox torque ---> 5 adds (2 hip twists) 3. paradox mirage ---> paradox mirage ---> 3 adds (2 hip twists) 4. barfly ---> twisted butterfly-> 4 adds (1 hip twist) 5. paradox eggbeater-> twisted legover -> 4 adds (1 hip twist) What do you think? Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue May 20 22:43:07 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA06052 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 May 1997 22:42:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA06048 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 20 May 1997 22:42:57 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6045) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA06043 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 22:42:52 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA18663 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 15:43:00 -0700 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA03835; Tue, 20 May 1997 15:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:42:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Verhoef Anne To: swingert@creighton.edu cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] TwIstEd (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 20 May 1997 swingert@creighton.edu wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 08:46:18 -0600 > From: "Derrick Fogle, MLERF" > To: Sean Wingert > Subject: Re: [freestyle] TwIstEd > > > You assert that PSB has the double-hip rotation commonly acclaimed as the > essence of paradox, right? I don't know, I've never done it and still can't > kick yet after harshing my ankle over 4 weeks ago. Who else out there has > tried this? What does everyone else think - - does it "feel" paradox? > > I've never though that ANY out-in dexterity should qualify for paradox; I > classify pdx reverse mirage as a window problem, not a hip gyration problem > (so you may not get a great deal of sympathy from me on this). But because we > are powerless to change anything that already is, the paradox definition that > got written really does cover 2 or 3 distinctly different types of motions. Okay, I think that out in dexterity can be paradox *if* the bag comes down on the same side you set it from eg: paradox rev mirage lands on same side set while clipper set legover or ATW wouldn't get an add. As for PSB, that gets four adds by my count (symp infinity). Try doing this move without the symp part, do you still think it's paradox? It just becomes infinity. Try doing infinity and paradox whirl; which one is harder and requires more hip rotation? PSB doesn't require a hip twist or jumping nearly as high as PSW I was going to bring up the subject of spinning and paradox but that's a whole other can of worms:-) Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 21 05:52:07 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA08381 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 05:51:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA08377 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 21 May 1997 05:51:57 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8374) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA08372 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 05:51:56 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20728 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 22:52:07 -0700 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id B]T18779; Wed, 21 May 1997 01:51:09 EDT To: marigold@vcn.bc.ca Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 01:41:24 -0400 Subject: [freestyle] Re TwIstEd into ~Worms~ Message-ID: <19970521.014716.3390.6.dervish@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6,8-10,13-21,32,34-38,42,44-45,48-51 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 20 May 1997 15:42:50 -0700 (PDT) Verhoef Anne writes: >On Tue, 20 May 1997 swingert@creighton.edu wrote: Whoops! Sorry about the double, Adrian. >Okay, I think that out in dexterity can be paradox *if* the bag comes down >on the same side you set it from eg: paradox rev mirage lands on same side >set while clipper set legover or ATW wouldn't get an add. Right! So paradox-rev-torque is cool because it comes down on the same *side* even tho you're turned around, right? Nipped in the bud!!! Ha, ha! > As for PSB, >that gets four adds by my count (symp infinity). Try doing this move >without the symp part, do you still think it's paradox? It just becomes >infinity. Try doing infinity and paradox whirl; which one is harder >and requires more hip rotation? PSB doesn't require a hip twist or >jumping nearly as high as PSW. Right, because you're not getting the leg out of the way so much as you're stepping over it. That's okay by me. I've been thinking about the validity of 180 degree dexterities for awhile but I'd probably be killed or crippled at the next event where I showed my face. For I would be the man that made butterfly into a 2add move, along with symposium mirage. Maybe half-dexterity moves *should* get half-an-add. The double-over family, hopover/butterfly swirl, ripwalk, dada, ect. becomes 3.5 adds. Butterfly, barrage, and sym. mirage receive 2.5, while double pickup, 2atw, or double whirl retain their original values because the dexterities are complete (ie.360 degrees) Clipper set mirage would get 1.5, ect, ect, ect. This is slightly reminiscent of the 'adjusted add system' Scott Davidson was working on awhile back. Did that pan out or fizzle away? >I was going to bring up the subject of spinning >and paradox but that's a whole other can of worms:-) Okay, if I set right footed clipper and turn backwards ( left osis direction) but I keep going and mirage inside to out with the left leg, delaying on the right toe - is this spinning paradox mirage? Probably not. But if I do a full spin (inspin - the *other* direction) from the same set and mirage to the left toe, is THIS spinning pardox mirage? And while I'm thinking about madness, is 'backside symposium blur' essentially symposium blur, just that I'm looking at the wrong piece of the puzzle? Glad to be out of the darkness, -JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 21 13:58:40 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA10116 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 13:58:31 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA10112 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 21 May 1997 13:58:30 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10109) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA10107 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 13:58:30 GMT Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA22470 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 06:58:44 -0700 Received: from [204.148.85.170] (d170.dialnet1.interaccess.com [204.148.85.170]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id IAA16082; Wed, 21 May 1997 08:56:50 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 09:10:34 -0700 To: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney), freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re TwIstEd into ~Worms~ Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! >This is slightly reminiscent of the 'adjusted add system' Scott Davidson >was working on awhile back. Did that pan out or fizzle away? It is still in the works. I need help. Sean? Got any time? And don't get me wrong, the adjusted add system was for a specific event that focuses on the difficulty of strings for shredders. Where the moves would be submitted in advance. The adjusted adds would NEVER work in a worlds style scoring situation. Could you imaging an add counter trying to work with halves? No way. It is hard enough to be a good add counter, I would never even think of making it more difficult. If anyone really wants to get down to business on this new style of shred event, contact me and we'll talk about the dream. See ya! Scott Davidson "...and that's the way it is." ;-} From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 21 16:07:49 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA10756 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 16:07:38 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA10751 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 21 May 1997 16:07:35 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10748) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA10746 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 16:07:34 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23095 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 09:07:49 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970521.014716.3390.6.dervish@juno.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 09:09:18 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] TwIstEd Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:41 PM -0700 5/20/97, Josh Penney wrote: >Maybe half-dexterity moves *should* get half-an-add. >The double-over family, hopover/butterfly swirl, ripwalk, dada, ect. >becomes 3.5 adds. Butterfly, barrage, and sym. mirage receive 2.5, while >double pickup, 2atw, or double whirl retain their original values because >the dexterities are complete (ie.360 degrees) Clipper set mirage would >get 1.5, ect, ect, ect. Now I think you're getting somewhere towards helping define what "paradox" really means. It has much more to do with how the dexterities are performed than whether or not there's a single- or double-hip rotation required to hit a move. ** I believe that the true essence of paradox is the difficulty of the dexterity when you set the bag in such a way that you have to complete a much more difficult dexterity (i.e., go the long way around it) to hit the move. ** This really shouldn't be so hard to define if we just get down and dirty and talk about what a dexterity *really* is, since paradox is *clearly* a modifier of the dexterity. So the concept of dexterities we currently employ is too weak. It doesn't account for how far your leg *really* goes around the bag, or whether it just passes over it or under it. The term half-dexterity is a strange one, but I know what you mean. We should rethink what a dexterity is and I believe we might find the answer there. I don't believe Sean's proposed "twist" category has much to do with Derrick's proposed "window" category, per se, but both hint at the change in the dexterity; so let's crack this one open and look at the dexterity itself relative to the legs involved. Obviously, if I'm right, then the plants and hip rotations will only be a small part of the definition of paradox, if at all. Now, when I'm not trying to get a tournament together I'll be happy as a clam to keep on with the paradox debate. For now, consider this a hint for what I'll be arguing in round 4 of the Great Paradox Debate. See many of you this weekend at Western Regionals. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 21 16:39:27 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA10919 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 16:39:26 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA10915 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 21 May 1997 16:39:25 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10912) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA10910 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 16:39:25 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23369 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 09:39:40 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA25602 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 11:39:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [freestyle] Re: Ding! Round 4, Paradox... Message-Id: <000000176292947077599@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 10:39:59 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Deja Vu all over again! On Wed, May 21, 1997, 4:09:18 PM GMT Steve Goldberg wrote: >really means. It has much more to do with how the dexterities are >performed than whether or not there's a single- or double-hip rotation >** I believe that the true essence of paradox is the difficulty of the >dexterity when you set the bag in such a way that you have to complete a >much more difficult dexterity (i.e., go the long way around it) to hit the >move. ** > >This really shouldn't be so hard to define if we just get down and dirty >and talk about what a dexterity *really* is, since paradox is *clearly* a >modifier of the dexterity. So the concept of dexterities we currently Dexterity is forcing the leg/foot to follow a constrained path. I don't know how many times I have stated this before. Paradox itself is a dexterity, since the constraint is either coming around the support leg one way before the actual legover (the "S" curve theory), or having to cut back under the bag well past the original starting point after the actual legover (the "Alpha" curve theory). Now that we are looking into various "grades" of dexterity, we could get somewhere on this. Infinity butterfly stalls are probably the easiest grade of dexterity. Then comes the range of around the worlds, same-side butterfly stalls, drifters, whirls, on up to the most difficult of single-legover, non- symposium moves, the paradox class. There's already some small amount of existing support for this, too: the venerable refraction, where the bag goes between your legs into an osis, is generally not awarded a dexterity add, despite the fact that the bag DOES go under the thigh/leg. And yes, the dissing of that add is one of my pet peeves. There actually has been rumors that some BAP members considered making butterfly stalls 2 adds, too. Creating 2 grades of dexterities may be an answer. But I have to agree with Scott - assigning fractions of an add to anything would be a nightmare beyond belief. Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 21 20:53:15 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA12111 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 20:53:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA12107 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 21 May 1997 20:53:06 GMT From: swingert@creighton.edu Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12104) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA12102 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 20:53:05 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA25050 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 13:53:17 -0700 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA156137991; Wed, 21 May 1997 15:53:12 -0500 Received: from localhost by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA130577991; Wed, 21 May 1997 15:53:11 -0500 Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:53:11 -0500 (CDT) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] TwIstEd (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 21 May 1997 swingert@creighton.edu wrote: > >Okay, I think that out in dexterity can be paradox *if* the bag comes down > >on the same side you set it from eg: paradox rev mirage lands on same side > >set while clipper set legover or ATW wouldn't get an add. > > As for PSB, > >that gets four adds by my count (symp infinity). Try doing this move > >without the symp part, do you still think it's paradox? No, I wouldn't think it's paradox without the symposium. But, quite honestly, I'm not sure that the plant invovled in PSB and PSB should make either move a *paradox*. I think if you plant, you destroy paradox, but maybe you also create something else. That "something else" created should be worth 1-add, so that such moves as PSW are still worth 5-adds, but would not be called PARADOX. However, this is a symposium debate, and we still have to finish to "twist" debate :-) > It just becomes > >infinity. Right. > > I was going to bring up the subject of spinning and > > paradox but that's a whole other can of worms:-) That's a good question, but like you said, let's bring it up later... Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 21 23:25:42 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA12872 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 23:25:35 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA12868 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 21 May 1997 23:25:33 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12865) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA12863 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 23:25:32 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25819 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 16:25:50 -0700 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA24172; Wed, 21 May 1997 16:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 16:25:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Verhoef Anne To: "Derrick Fogle, MLERF" cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Ding! Round 4, Paradox... In-Reply-To: <000000176292947077599@mlerf.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 21 May 1997, Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: > There's already some small amount of existing support for this, too: the > venerable refraction, where the bag goes between your legs into an osis, is > generally not awarded a dexterity add, despite the fact that the bag DOES go > under the thigh/leg. And yes, the dissing of that add is one of my pet peeves. > There actually has been rumors that some BAP members considered making > butterfly stalls 2 adds, too. The BAP members are considering making butterfly two adds?? They're guiltless strings would sure be a lot shorter. They do butterflies every 1 out of 4 moves, maybe more. They're strings would be a whole lot different, that's for sure. Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 21 23:36:46 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA12908 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 23:36:45 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA12904 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 21 May 1997 23:36:45 GMT Received: from proshred@ix.netcom.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (12901) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA12899 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 23:36:44 GMT Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25903 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 16:37:02 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA06724 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 18:36:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sjx-ca73-17.ix.netcom.com(207.93.129.81) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma006707; Wed May 21 18:36:23 1997 Message-ID: <33838972.4116@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 16:46:58 -0700 From: Mike Niday Reply-To: proshred@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] RE: ding!... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>The BAP members are considering making butterfly two adds?? They're >>guiltless strings would sure be a lot shorter. They do butterflies >>every 1 out of 4 moves, maybe more. They're strings would be a whole >>lot different, that's for sure. You wanna see some shorter strings ??? Just say that no spinning is allowed... Mighty proshred@ix.netcom.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 22 01:22:00 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA13574 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 22 May 1997 01:21:58 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA13570 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 22 May 1997 01:21:57 GMT From: swingert@creighton.edu Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (13567) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA13565 for ; Thu, 22 May 1997 01:21:57 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA26670 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 18:22:16 -0700 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA190304130; Wed, 21 May 1997 20:22:10 -0500 Received: from [204.214.28.171] (p1-171.top.net) by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA149644127; Wed, 21 May 1997 20:22:07 -0500 X-Sender: swingert@bluejay.creighton.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 07:35:37 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Let's Put Twisted on Hold Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm not sure exactly how to resolve the Great Paradox Debate, but I too agree that fractional add counting is, as Derrick called it, a "nightmare." On the other hand, Steve raises a good point by saying that moves such as pdx whirl are more about the leg traveling around the bag than about hip movements. I think Steve's view has merit because, for example, paradox mirage has a distinct appeareance NOT because of the hip twisting but because of the foot's path (Derrick's "constrained path" idea) AROUND the bag. A good example of this hip movement vs. foot dexterity idea is Tuan Vu. Tuan's legbeaters, blurs, and pixie mirages look so *fast* because his HIPS are doing most of the work and his feet necessarily start flying (this is similar to a third-class lever, with Tuan's hips as the fulcrum.) Simply put, that is Tuan's *style* of shred. My point here is simple: even though moves may *look* different from one another, the ultimate goal in the majority of footbag tricks is to CIRCLE the bag (perform dexterities). Twisting of hips seems incidental, because if you wanted to, you could kick the bag 20 feet into the air, wiggle and twist your hips around, then kick the bag and only get 0-adds for all your effort :-) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is similar to Derrick's view. I still think Paradox is ill-defined, but maybe would could clarify by saying something simple like: Paradox must start from clipper and that clipper foot must perform an immediate IN-OUT dexterity. All OUT-IN dexterities are NOT pdx, but refer o something else. Or, then again, maybe not :-) Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 22 19:06:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA20933 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 22 May 1997 19:05:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA20929 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 22 May 1997 19:05:30 GMT Received: from ratcliff@advtel.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (20926) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA20924 for ; Thu, 22 May 1997 19:05:29 GMT Received: from noc1.eatel.net (noc1.eatel.net [207.101.8.253]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA31418 for ; Thu, 22 May 1997 12:05:55 -0700 Received: from p166 (max2-117.eatel.net [207.101.8.117]) by noc1.eatel.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA03773; Thu, 22 May 1997 14:37:38 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970522140014.007bc7c0@mail.advtel.net> X-Sender: ratcliff@mail.advtel.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:00:14 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Wes Ratcliff Subject: [freestyle] Hackman's New Move! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-= Hey everybody, Hackman's new move has been released... I've also added a new "Fun" section which, for now, consists of only one game. :) I'll be adding more games etc. as time goes along. Also, there are new take-home versions for the Macintosh. The address for Hackman's Page is http://www.eatel.net/~ratcliff/ Later, Wes P.S. I'll be on the Java Chat Friday night (tomorrow) at 8pm Central Time! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-= From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue May 27 13:49:24 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA18164 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 13:49:05 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA18160 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 27 May 1997 13:49:03 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18157) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA18155 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 13:49:03 GMT Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA27093 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 06:49:42 -0700 Received: from [204.148.85.184] (d184.dialnet1.interaccess.com [204.148.85.184]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id IAA20603; Tue, 27 May 1997 08:47:44 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:01:53 -0700 To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF), freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Ding! Round 4, Paradox... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! >There's already some small amount of existing support for this, too: the >venerable refraction, where the bag goes between your legs into an osis, is >generally not awarded a dexterity add, despite the fact that the bag DOES go >under the thigh/leg. And yes, the dissing of that add is one of my pet peeves. >There actually has been rumors that some BAP members considered making >butterfly stalls 2 adds, too. Change is constant. I'm not sure what I would use for guiltless sets, but I'm sure I would find something. (without butterflies, what can I rely on... eek) ;-) >Creating 2 grades of dexterities may be an answer. But I have to agree with >Scott - assigning fractions of an add to anything would be a nightmare beyond >belief. What about recognizing the different kinds of dex's, albeit 2 kinds, 3 kinds of 50 kinds.. (Just Kind works too.) And instead of devaluing any of them, just recognize the difference between them for the sake of assisting in defining other moves (read paradox's). May the adds remain the same. (Or higher). Have a grateful weekend! Best of skill to all my friends that will be competing at Western Regionals! Steve, get to work. Have fun! We will be simulating tournament stress on our legs this weekend, so my adenine triphosphate is with you all! See ya! Scott Davidson Midwest Footbag Association From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue May 27 13:49:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA18175 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 13:49:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA18171 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 27 May 1997 13:49:07 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18168) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA18166 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 13:49:06 GMT Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA27097 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 06:49:46 -0700 Received: from [204.148.85.184] (d184.dialnet1.interaccess.com [204.148.85.184]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id IAA20620 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 08:47:49 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:01:58 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] RE: ding!... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! >You wanna see some shorter strings ??? >Just say that no spinning is allowed... I know you are joking, but it brings up a point. I believe that some of the most beautiful freestyle strings are those that mesh the beauty, style and flow of spinning, in with the raw adrenaline-pumping rampage of dexterity moves. I am always more stoked about strings that incorporate difficult spinning moves, with difficult dex moves. And when the contact count is over 40 or 50... man what a rush! I love to spin. Scott Davidson. Taz. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue May 27 14:01:18 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA18250 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 14:01:17 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA18246 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 27 May 1997 14:01:15 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18243) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA18241 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 14:01:14 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA27154; Tue, 27 May 1997 07:01:54 -0700 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3/SAS.03) id KAA15038; Tue, 27 May 1997 10:01:53 -0400 (EDT) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Message-Id: <199705271401.KAA15038@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] RE: ding!... To: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 10:01:52 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: from "Scott Davidson" at May 27, 97 09:01:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I believe that some of the most beautiful freestyle strings are those that > mesh the beauty, style and flow of spinning, in with the raw > adrenaline-pumping rampage of dexterity moves. No, not YOU Scott. I would never have noticed that you love spinning and shredding dexterities with a 50 plus add count. Who would have guessed? :') But seriously, spinning is beautiful, I just wish I could do the damn thing. I feel like Mighty, I get all dizzy and stuff. Later, ALex From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue May 27 14:57:08 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA18507 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 14:56:31 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA18503 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 27 May 1997 14:56:29 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18500) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA18498 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 14:56:29 GMT Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA27399 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 07:57:09 -0700 Received: from [204.148.85.104] (d104.dialnet1.interaccess.com [204.148.85.104]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id JAA03519; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:55:10 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 10:09:19 -0700 To: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro), freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Subject: Re: [freestyle] RE: ding!... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Alex and freestylers! >> I believe that some of the most beautiful freestyle strings are those that >> mesh the beauty, style and flow of spinning, in with the raw >> adrenaline-pumping rampage of dexterity moves. > >No, not YOU Scott. I would never have noticed that you love spinning >and shredding dexterities with a 50 plus add count. Who would have >guessed? :') I'm not talking about add counts, I'm talking about *contact* counts. 50 adds would not accomplish what I look for in a good string. I feel great with 30 - 50 contact strings that put me into the 100 - 175 add range... those strings rule. >But seriously, spinning is beautiful, I just wish I could do the damn >thing. I feel like Mighty, I get all dizzy and stuff. Here is my schpiel on spinning.... Learn the spin concept by learning the most basic component... the kick to a spin, to a kick. I recommend the Outside Kick and spin away from it to another kick. So if you do a right outside, you spin to the left... with this example, you would ideally want to do a right inside kick. (When you get really good at it, you will notice that you almost start turning before the kick is done). Next learn Outside Kick spin away to a toe delay, then to an inside delay, then to a clipper delay. Extrapolate. When you are spinning, take extra care to notice your body positions in terms of balance and head position. It is important to "have a goal" when spinning. What I mean is that since you know where the footbag is *supposed* to go after the set, your goal is to turn your head quickly after the set (in most cases) and spot the bag at or before it apexes. Your hips, shoulders and general balance will follow your head. This technique will help you to reduce the euphoric feeling related to spinning, and should help to reduce face plants in extreme cases. And low and behold, you now have 4 different spinning moves (And all the basics). Keep skoolin' the basics (on both sides is VERY important) and they will provide you with more variety than you can dream of. See ya! Scott Davidson enlightener@footbag.org From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 28 01:50:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA22982 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 01:49:58 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA22978 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 28 May 1997 01:49:56 GMT Received: from footbagger@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (22975) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA22973 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 01:49:56 GMT Received: from f42.hotmail.com (F42.hotmail.com [207.82.250.53]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA31734 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 18:50:41 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by f42.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA19138; Tue, 27 May 1997 18:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705280150.SAA19138@f42.hotmail.com> Received: from 207.155.18.104 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 27 May 1997 18:50:36 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.155.18.104] From: "Eric Windsor" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] atom whirl Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:50:36 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey list, Had a question about the name of a move. Has anyone done an atom smasher, but instead of doing a butterfly as a second dexterity you do a whirl? right toe>op outside dex>op inside dex (whirl)>left clip Thats a phat move. Imagine blender instead of whirl. If anyone were to do these it probably would be Tuan. I LOVE REVERSE MIRAGE SETS!! Eric Windsor 0 /|\ o \\ _// ` --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 28 05:11:21 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA24113 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 05:11:18 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA24109 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 28 May 1997 05:11:16 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24106) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA24104 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 05:11:15 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA32700 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 22:12:01 -0700 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id BzP08168; Wed, 28 May 1997 01:11:03 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 01:06:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [freestyle] atom whirl Message-ID: <19970528.010724.22814.4.dervish@juno.com> References: <199705280150.SAA19138@f42.hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-10,13-19 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org <<><><>??><><, On Tue, 27 May 1997 18:50:36 PDT "Eric Windsor" writes: >Hey list, >Had a question about the name of a move. > >Has anyone done an atom smasher, but instead of doing a butterfly as a >second dexterity you do a whirl? >right toe>op outside dex>op inside dex (whirl)>left clip Uh... you mean instead of legbeater? A/S would be mirage, right? That's sick. I've seen Tuan hit legbeater with the second dexterity doubled, or reverse miraging - double over down, he calls it Fusion. A very sick move. < toe - op out - op out - same out - op clip > I think you should get 'that Mulroney guy' to hit it. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 28 18:30:54 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA28741 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 18:30:43 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA28737 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 28 May 1997 18:30:40 GMT Received: from tuanvu@erols.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (28734) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA28732 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 18:30:40 GMT Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [205.252.116.102]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04348 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 11:31:31 -0700 Received: from tv (spg-as13s23.erols.com [207.172.35.23]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA07311; Wed, 28 May 1997 14:31:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <338C7C69.25E6@erols.com> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:41:45 -0400 From: 2 HUGE Organization: HUGE PRODUCTIONS X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Windsor CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] atom whirl References: <199705280150.SAA19138@f42.hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eric Windsor wrote: > Had a question about the name of a move. > > Has anyone done an atom smasher, but instead of doing a butterfly as a second > dexterity you do a whirl? > > right toe>op outside dex>op inside dex (whirl)>left clip > > Thats a phat move. Imagine blender instead of whirl. If anyone were to do > these it probably would be Tuan. Yeah, I believe my brother was trying that and I'm sure he's hit it. I've also seen him hit fusion, which is a reverse mirage to a double-down. I would describe this in the "Op In Out Dex" but I don't speak ancient greek. 2 Huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 28 22:53:22 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA30402 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 22:53:16 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA30398 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 28 May 1997 22:53:13 GMT Received: from nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (30395) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA30393 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 22:53:13 GMT Received: from ncsa.uiuc.edu (sdgmail.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.103.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06584 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 15:54:06 -0700 Received: from void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (void [141.142.103.20]) by ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA29191 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 17:54:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nhall@localhost) by void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id RAA09197; Wed, 28 May 1997 17:54:04 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:54:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Nicholas Hall To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] One the add debate- neophyte perspective Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org My two cents worth: In my mind, the names of moves and the adds serve different purposes. When I started kicking, I didn't know the names of anything- when we thought up a new move, we gave it a name so we wouldn't have to describe it every time we talked about it. Adds are a different story. As has been noted, adds don't necessarily tell the whole story on difficulty (C'mon, try to convince me that a flying butterfly kick is harder than a double around-the-world with no stall at the end!), but, as (Scott?) someone said, any system is better than no system when you're trying to decide a winner. My point to the whole paradox debate is that it should be like the rest of the add system: arbitrary and final. OK, so the DaDa curve is an easy 4-add and the double ATW delay is a hard 3-add. So maybe this should be taken into account by the *non-add* judges? I mean seriously, if you're judging adds, count adds, according to a rulebook, and perfection be damned. Then, sit back smug in the knowledge that if all of the contestant's "paradox" moves were cheap-ass paradoxes, that the judges on style will deduct accordingly. Similarly, if you noticed he was shredding up really tough moves (but low-add), and probably got gypped on the adds, let the style judges worry about that as well. Would this work out and essentially put to rest the argument? There are a couple of reasons I propose this. First, it puts the discussion of which is the easiest paradox and which is the hardest firmly into the qualitative judge's hands, where it belongs. You can use the current definition of paradox and leave the moves the way they are (there is a certain value to not changing everything- namely, the massive wave of confusion that it would fail to cause). Second, because it lets the scoring be accurate even if the adds system isn't (and we all know it isn't). Third, because the emphasis should be on creating cool moves, not on figuring out ways to get cheap adds. I feel alot better about showing my friends a flashy new move that I thought up (I always later find that someone else thought it up first, oh well) than I would bragging about the add combos I got in a circle. So why should the stage be different? The final reason this would be a good system (other than dumping it in the lap of the style judge is dirt simple) is that it adequately addresses the question of acrobatic/balletic moves that people bring up every now and then. Imagine you see an intermediate routine that is acrobatic, requiring great poise, balance and skill, but never does anything with more add value than a delay (evidently this competitor has never heard of adds and just taught himself to kick, let's say). Then, the add counter can dutifully count up a very low add-count, and the style judge can rate the style- according to non-add difficulty of the routine. This would be a smallish adjustment, and the guy probably wouldn't win on style points alone, but that has a lot to do with the fact the big-add moves are what most kickers are into, and tournament scoring should reflect that. If acrobatic style comes more into vogue later, it can be scored more heavily by the style judge, and maybe the hypothetical acrobat at the beginning of this paragraph would win- and throughout it all, the add system wouldn't have to be altered. There it is. There's my suggestion. I'm not a pro- nowhere near: I think the paradox a-t-w (such as it were) is the closest I've gotten to a paradox move, and for me, it's a *difficult* move. The reason I think this would work is that the add system is plenty complex enough already- if we can avoid making it more so, great. And meanwhile, all you insane three-dexes-in-the-air kickers that make me sick can argue whether a paradox-reverse-whatever is harder than a reverse-miraging-soandso, and without having to change the add system, that difficulty can show up in the scorecards. It would be a nice solution. Nick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Nick Hall | nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu | http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/nhall | | National Center for Supercomputing App's | University of Illinois | | "You'll hear a lot of people talking about individual freedom- But | | when they see a free individual, boy, they get scared" -Easy Rider | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed May 28 23:33:37 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA30630 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 23:33:36 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA30626 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 28 May 1997 23:33:34 GMT Received: from nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (30623) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA30621 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 23:33:33 GMT Received: from ncsa.uiuc.edu (sdgmail.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.103.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06771 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 16:34:27 -0700 Received: from void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (void [141.142.103.20]) by ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA29493 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 18:34:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nhall@localhost) by void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id SAA09281; Wed, 28 May 1997 18:34:24 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:34:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Nicholas Hall To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Oh yeah- question on the Osis Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Forgot to mention- I have a question on the Osis. Osis I understand. I can do that. From a straight right toe set, spin, catch on a right clipper. No problem. However, before I was shown the light of the moves lists, when I was making up my own moves, I did a thing kind of like that. The motion is exactly like an osis, except that for the first half, pretend you're doing in out to in dexterity. So: 1) You set straight up from a right toe set. 2) Bring the right foot around out to in, but stop at the top of the circle. 3) Turn your body half to the left, and point the right toe straight down. If you started the move facing north, your right instep is now facing south. 4) Swing the right instep through in an arc towards the South, executing an osis-like completion of the spin and finishing the move in exactly the same position as if you had just done a normal osis. It literally looks like you were going to do an out to in around-the-world, but decided halfway through to do an osis instead. It doesn't look quite like an osis, because when you start the osis motion, the sack is between your legs. Is this just a straight osis? I guess it could be thought of as a fairy osis, but there's no complete dexterity with the right foot. On the other hand, as you "scoop" the sack into the osis position, it sorta passes under the left-leg (the same way the half-assed dexterity in a butterfly does). Maybe this should be a four-add move: 3 adds for the osis plus 1/2 add each for two half-assed dexterities? :) Ok, that's the stupidest idea I've ever had, but what *is* this move? I described it as accurately as I can without video, so hopefully one of you experienced folks can help me? Nick PS Feel free to respond, "Wow, that's something we never thought of- feel free to name your new move, Nick!" ;) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Nick Hall | nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu | http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/nhall | | National Center for Supercomputing App's | University of Illinois | | "You'll hear a lot of people talking about individual freedom- But | | when they see a free individual, boy, they get scared" -Easy Rider | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 29 00:46:41 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA30986 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 29 May 1997 00:46:36 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA30982 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 29 May 1997 00:46:35 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (30979) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA30977 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 00:46:34 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07197 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 17:47:28 -0700 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id USV12797; Wed, 28 May 1997 20:44:30 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:20:58 -0400 Subject: [freestyle] One add and Osis! Message-ID: <19970528.204041.3398.2.dervish@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,11,13-14,16-17,20-21,23-28 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >My two cents worth: And mine! > In my mind, the names of moves and the adds serve different >purposes. True. But adds a freestyle performance/routine do not make. Generally, adds count for a very small portion of the "total score". It's based on composition, choreography (both of these are pretty subjective so it's always a tough call) and the clincher is usually execution, which includes smoothness, confidence, and DROPS, which is the big one. Often in tourney routines, the difficulty is low so the execution will be smooth. No one cares about adds when you're just shredding. It was just necessary to determine a method of describing why some tricks were harder than others, so the 'adds' and 'add categories' were invented. And the move you describe is called refraction. Like an osis, but different. The bag passes between your legs and not behind; Sometimes it's like an inside stall with a spin into the delay. For that extra add, do the whole dexterity and then 'go osis'. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 29 00:59:10 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA31067 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 29 May 1997 00:59:09 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA31062 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 29 May 1997 00:59:08 GMT Received: from nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (31057) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA31052 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 00:59:06 GMT Received: from ncsa.uiuc.edu (sdgmail.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.103.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07271 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 18:00:00 -0700 Received: from void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (void [141.142.103.20]) by ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA29994 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 20:00:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nhall@localhost) by void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id TAA09468; Wed, 28 May 1997 19:59:58 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 19:59:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Nicholas Hall To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] One add and Osis! In-Reply-To: <19970528.204041.3398.2.dervish@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 28 May 1997, Josh Penney wrote: > And the move you describe is called refraction. Like an osis, but > different. > The bag passes between your legs and not behind; > Sometimes it's like an inside stall with a spin into the delay. > > For that extra add, do the whole dexterity and then 'go osis'. I had wondered about the refraction, but had thought that would be wrong, for two reasons: first, whenever I've seen a refraction in a move list, it suggests that you "Start by inside delaying the footbag" (that's from the footbag.org move list, at homepages.ihug.co.nz/~the_sock/3addmove.htm). In the thing I was describing, there's no delay before the actual clipper delay. Secondly, refractions are invariably described as having a "360 degree spin towards the support leg" (same source), whereas the thing I'm describing only spins 180, like an osis. Is this just a bastardized refraction? Nick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Nick Hall | nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu | http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/nhall | | National Center for Supercomputing App's | University of Illinois | | "You'll hear a lot of people talking about individual freedom- But | | when they see a free individual, boy, they get scared" -Easy Rider | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 29 14:19:00 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA01231 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 29 May 1997 14:18:12 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA01227 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 29 May 1997 14:18:10 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1224) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA01222 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 14:18:09 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA10749 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 07:19:09 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA09487 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 09:19:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] One the add debate- neophyte perspective Message-Id: <000000185682947760388@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 08:19:48 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, May 28, 1997, 5:54:03 PM (US CST) Nicholas Hall wrote: >My two cents worth: Looks like a bit more than 2 cents to me... > My point to the whole paradox debate is that it should be like the rest >of the add system: arbitrary and final. OK, so the DaDa curve is an easy >4-add and the double ATW delay is a hard 3-add. So maybe this should be >taken into account by the *non-add* judges? If you're going to do this, why not just scrap the add system alltogether? You're right; the players that do the stuff can watch and score one another on a relative or a flat scale, without ever having to count adds or bicker about nuances of moves, or any new rules or definitions ever being written. Why keep the pretense? >discussion of which is the easiest paradox and which is the hardest >firmly into the qualitative judge's hands, where it belongs. You can >the lap of the style judge is dirt simple) is that it adequately >addresses the question of acrobatic/balletic moves that people bring up On the other hand, using the qualitative judges to differentiate difficulty makes an existing problem even worse: many of those judges will use the opportunity to judge difficulty rather than qualitative presentation aspects. I've spoke volumes about how presentation judges used to give scores based almost entirely on drops count when the 'no drops' mindset was all the rage. Presentation judges are influenced by the current culture in footbag. When the current culture is focused on adds and diffuculty, you will have 3 types of judges: adds & drops, composition, and diffuculty. Mind you, there is a non-add counting alternative in the rulebook already, that relies on 2 panels of judges to qualitatively assess presentation and difficulty, and rank the players accordingly. Most tournaments use some version of this simple ranking system to determine winners and losers. Even though adds are arguably the smallest actual part of the Worlds scoring system, they are by far the largest force in footbag freestyle culture. I see no impetus for further evolution of the freestyle mindset, either; we are stuck here. We might as well give the presentation judges license to judge difficulty; they do already, and I hate false pretenses. Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 29 17:01:05 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA02042 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 29 May 1997 17:00:53 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA02038 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 29 May 1997 17:00:50 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2035) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA02033 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 17:00:49 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA11519; Thu, 29 May 1997 10:01:49 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <19970528.204041.3398.2.dervish@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 10:03:51 -0700 To: Nicholas Hall From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] One add and Osis! Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 5:59 PM -0700 5/28/97, Nick Hall wrote: >I had wondered about the refraction, but had thought that would be wrong, >for two reasons: first, whenever I've seen a refraction in a move list, >it suggests that you "Start by inside delaying the footbag" (that's from >the footbag.org move list, at homepages.ihug.co.nz/~the_sock/3addmove.htm). >In the thing I was describing, there's no delay before the actual clipper >delay. Secondly, refractions are invariably described as having a "360 >degree spin towards the support leg" (same source), whereas the thing I'm >describing only spins 180, like an osis. Is this just a bastardized >refraction? It's probably a "Corkscrew", which is just a majorly overemphasized refraction. Remember, this is freestyle -- there are two or three names for almost every trick, and subtle differences in how you do the tricks can actually matter to some people. Just go with the flow. Your best bet is to listen to the advice I give on the on-line FAQ: you cannot learn freestyle from e-mail. Go to a tournament and/or kick regularly with a club and you'll "get it" a lot faster. Of course, the Midwest Regionals are only a couple of weeks away and only a couple of hours away -- I highly recommend you attend, and pick people's brains in person where they can show you stuff up front. Steve P.S. Getting back to Osis -- I saw you (Nick) write that you set your right osis from a right toe. Trust me when I say that, to get your osises dialed on both sides, you should try to set them from the *opposite* toe. I.e., set a rightie osis with your left toe delay. Set the bag right up in front of you, and not behind you. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu May 29 22:52:02 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA04966 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 29 May 1997 22:51:50 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA04962 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 29 May 1997 22:51:47 GMT Received: from dervish@juno.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4959) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA04957 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 22:51:47 GMT Received: from x5.boston.juno.com (x5.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA13560 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 15:52:50 -0700 Received: (from dervish@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id SCK14679; Thu, 29 May 1997 18:52:09 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:39:54 -0400 Subject: [freestyle] Osis! Message-ID: <19970529.184819.3406.1.dervish@juno.com> References: <19970528.204041.3398.2.dervish@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.22 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-5,7,9-10,12-14 From: dervish@juno.com (Josh Penney) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 29 May 1997 10:03:51 -0700 Steve Goldberg writes: >At 5:59 PM -0700 5/28/97, Nick Hall wrote: > And then Steve pooted forth: >Getting back to Osis -- I saw you (Nick) write that you set your >right osis from a right toe. Trust me when I say that, to get your osises >dialed on both sides, you should try to set them from the *opposite* toe. I think setting from the same *and* opposite clipper really gets it in the pocket. ]JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri May 30 02:53:31 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA06251 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 30 May 1997 02:53:13 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA06247 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 30 May 1997 02:53:11 GMT Received: from ratcliff@advtel.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6244) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA06242 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 02:53:11 GMT Received: from noc1.eatel.net (noc1.eatel.net [207.101.8.253]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA14828 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 19:54:15 -0700 Received: from p166 (max2-52.eatel.net [207.101.8.52]) by noc1.eatel.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA23854 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 22:29:35 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970529215411.007c83b0@mail.advtel.net> X-Sender: ratcliff@mail.advtel.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 21:54:11 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Wes Ratcliff Subject: [freestyle] Reverse Leg Over?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I was wondering what this move is called: 1. Start with a left toe stall 2. Set the bag up 3. Circle the bag inside out with your right foot (under then over) 4. Catch the bag in a right toe stall Is this a Reverse Leg Over? Just wondering... Later, Wes From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri May 30 13:50:41 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA08506 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 30 May 1997 13:50:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA08502 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 30 May 1997 13:50:21 GMT Received: from jelst35+@pitt.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8499) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA08497 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 13:50:21 GMT Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA17333 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 06:51:30 -0700 Received: from unixs2.cis.pitt.edu (jelst35@unixs2.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.53]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Fri, 30 May 1997 09:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:43:42 -0400 (EDT) From: James E Leberknight X-Sender: jelst35@unixs2.cis.pitt.edu To: Wes Ratcliff cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Reverse Leg Over?? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970529215411.007c83b0@mail.advtel.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 29 May 1997, Wes Ratcliff wrote: > Hey, I was wondering what this move is called: > 1. Start with a left toe stall > 2. Set the bag up > 3. Circle the bag inside out with your right foot (under then over) > 4. Catch the bag in a right toe stall > > Is this a Reverse Leg Over? Just wondering... > > Later, > Wes > I always called that move a Leg-Under. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri May 30 14:10:29 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA08681 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 30 May 1997 14:10:28 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA08676 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 30 May 1997 14:10:25 GMT Received: from vesama@dlc.fi () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8673) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA08671 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 14:10:24 GMT Received: from newt.dlc.fi (newt.dlc.fi [195.218.64.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA17422 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 07:11:33 -0700 Received: from vesama (nys204.pp.dlc.fi [195.218.64.204]) by newt.dlc.fi (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA12258 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 17:11:31 +0300 (EDT) Message-ID: <338EDFA1.70D9@dlc.fi> Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:09:37 +0300 From: Sampo Vesa Reply-To: vesama@dlc.fi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] connecticut Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, I am a young freestyler from Helsinki,Finland, and I am going to Stonington,Connecticut for a two weeks (June 6-21). I am not going there only to play footbag,but it would be really nice to play with somebody who is living at that area. So if you live near Stonington,please let me know, Juho From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri May 30 18:51:59 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01646 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 30 May 1997 18:51:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01642 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 30 May 1997 18:51:09 GMT Received: from sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1639) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01637 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 18:51:05 GMT Received: from dept.english.upenn.edu (DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU [130.91.75.246]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19087 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 11:51:07 -0700 Received: (from sunilj@localhost) by dept.english.upenn.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA26192 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 30 May 1997 14:51:06 -0400 From: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani) Message-Id: <199705301851.OAA26192@dept.english.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Going to California... To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 14:51:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey All: I am moving to San Francisco on June 7th. I am pretty psyched. I will be in a summer research program at UCSF. I don't have my address or number yet, but I will soon. I can't wait to get out there. Anyone in the area who cares to send their address or #, I would appreciate it. Thanks. Sunil Steve - I do not have web access so I was wondering if you (or anyone else) had a schedule of the regular kicks in Golden Gate and Berkeley. Thanks again. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri May 30 22:52:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03064 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 30 May 1997 22:51:47 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03060 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 30 May 1997 22:51:45 GMT Received: from hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3057) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03055 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 22:51:45 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20997 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 15:51:48 -0700 Received: from skull.cs.uidaho.edu (skull.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.108]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.1) with ESMTP id PAA18443 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 15:51:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by skull.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.0) with SMTP id PAA21489 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 15:51:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: skull.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 15:51:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Hillebrand To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] emerald city Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was all pumped up to go to Seattle next weekend until I went to the web page for this event and saw that there won't be any freestyle going on. Was this a misprint, or will there really be no freestyle there? ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 This space for rent. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat May 31 03:25:08 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA04335 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 31 May 1997 03:25:01 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA04331 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 31 May 1997 03:24:59 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4328) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA04326 for ; Sat, 31 May 1997 03:24:58 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca ([207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA22226 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 20:25:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA03315 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 20:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 20:24:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Verhoef Anne To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Gimping Moves Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everyone, I was curious on the add rating of gimping moves. For example, is a gimping mirage two seperate moves or one four add move? (dex,body,dex,delay?). I'm not sure if the knee kick would get a body add or not. Also, if you went: clip > op inout dex > op knee kick > same in out dex >op toe. Would that be paradox? Just trying to think up new material...hmm gimping diving butterfly :-) Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat May 31 03:29:06 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA04354 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 31 May 1997 03:29:05 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA04350 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 31 May 1997 03:29:05 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4347) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA04345 for ; Sat, 31 May 1997 03:29:04 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA22247; Fri, 30 May 1997 20:29:09 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 20:26:46 -0700 To: Matt Hillebrand From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] emerald city Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 3:51 PM -0700 5/30/97, Matt Hillebrand wrote: >I was all pumped up to go to Seattle next weekend until I went to the web >page for this event and saw that there won't be any freestyle going on. >Was this a misprint, or will there really be no freestyle there? You should still be all psyched to go to Seattle and freestyle on the sidelines. Freestyle as a competitive event is seldom offered at footbag tournaments because of the requirement for critical mass of competitors. You *better* go, though! The more freestylers who show up at footbag tournaments, the better the possibility of there being a freestyle event there! Steve P.S. I'll be there and as soon as I get killed in the net I'll be joining you on the sidelines freestyling. :-) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat May 31 03:33:29 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA04394 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 31 May 1997 03:33:28 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA04390 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 31 May 1997 03:33:27 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4387) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA04385 for ; Sat, 31 May 1997 03:33:27 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA22278; Fri, 30 May 1997 20:33:31 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 20:35:40 -0700 To: Verhoef Anne From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Gimping Moves Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Adrian Verhoef wrote: >I was curious on the add rating of gimping moves. For example, is a >gimping mirage two seperate moves or one four add move? >(dex,body,dex,delay?). I'm not sure if the knee kick would get a body add >or not. Gimping moves are obviously two separate moves because they contain two separate contacts. But don't make that stop you doing them -- there's a difference between what's high adds and what's totally cool and gets you respect. :-) >Also, if you went: clip > op inout dex > op knee kick > same in out dex >>op toe. Would that be paradox? No, it's not paradox. A contact is a contact is a contact. :-) Steve