From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 1 07:31:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA05978 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:30:41 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA05974 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:30:39 GMT Received: from rassbach@nilenet.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5971) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA05969 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:30:38 GMT Received: from ra.nilenet.com (ra.nilenet.com [204.227.31.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA15647 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 00:30:45 -0700 Received: from slip3.den.nilenet.net (slip3.den.nilenet.net [206.247.98.3]) by ra.nilenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA19810 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 01:27:26 -0600 Message-ID: <33DEFBD6.2963@nilenet.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 01:31:18 -0700 From: Walter Rassbach X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Brian McKenzie Videos References: <000000264562953227307@mlerf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Somebody whose name was not shown with the post (;-}) wrote: > >I also had a few questions about it. > I have one question too ... since I don't yet have a way to watch a "quicktime video" could somebody please explain what he hit? Blurry whirl, blender, torque, ... is a damn good start but I'm curious to hear the rest. Thanks, Daryl Genz From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 1 14:55:49 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA00155 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:55:02 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA00149 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:55:00 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (146) Received: from Market.NET ([140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA00144 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:54:59 GMT Received: from f62.hotmail.com (F62.hotmail.com [207.82.250.148]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA18206 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:54:59 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by f62.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA29700; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:54:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708011454.HAA29700@f62.hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.232.26 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Aug 1997 07:54:59 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.232.26] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] lap catch Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 07:54:59 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm putting the finishing touches on my Worlds routine trying to find moves that are easy yet score well. That leads me to this: What's the add make-up of a lap catch? Do you get the unusual and the delay or just the unusual? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 1 15:01:53 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00200 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:01:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00196 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:01:50 GMT Received: from nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (193) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00191 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:01:49 GMT Received: from ncsa.uiuc.edu (sdgmail.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.103.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18288 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:01:49 -0700 Received: from void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (void [141.142.103.20]) by ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16960 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:02:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nhall@localhost) by void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id KAA09134; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:05:41 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:05:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Nicholas Hall To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Brian McKenzie Videos In-Reply-To: <199707312038.NAA09193@f70.hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Eric Windsor wrote: > > > >If anyone is interested in a few video clips from the Homecooked >Shred > >Tape, you can check out my videos page: > > > www.top.net/footbag/htmls/engaged/videos.html Speaking of which, this might be a good time to point out- nice page, Sean! Really slick shred sessions (I like how you have a lot of smaller ones, rather than a few long ones, for easy downloading) and cool idea with the animated gifs to teach how to hit moves. Looking forward to seeing more "cyber skool" entries. Anyone that hasn't taken a look, it's worth a minute or three of download time... Nick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Nick Hall | nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu | http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/nhall | | National Center for Supercomputing App's | University of Illinois | | "You'll hear a lot of people talking about individual freedom- But | | when they see a free individual, boy, they get scared" -Easy Rider | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 1 16:05:54 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00507 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 16:05:32 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00503 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 16:05:29 GMT From: swingert@creighton.edu Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (500) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00497 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 16:05:23 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00532 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:05:23 -0700 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA021321521; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:05:21 -0500 Received: from localhost by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA205261521; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:05:21 -0500 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:05:21 -0500 (CDT) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #193 In-Reply-To: <199707312350.XAA04235@eniac.yak.net.taz> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derrick wrote: > Don't ask. You might as well get some video of McKenzie before he gets really > good. Brian is one hard-core shreddin' machine. I think he'll be admitted to BAP *really*, *really* soon. Although, he's got plenty of strong competition with Ryan Mulroney, and it will be interesting to compare the two in a freestyle circle (imagine that vibe, guys!). According to an unnamed source/friend of mine, Ryan should have "beaten Peter [Irish]" at the last tournament they both competed in. (Insert Will Smith's "Damn..." sound here). :-) Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 1 16:16:09 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00595 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 16:15:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00591 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 16:15:55 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (588) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00586 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 16:15:54 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net ([206.27.194.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00691 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:15:44 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [206.27.195.3]) by trib1.trib.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA29494 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:15:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circles Message-Id: <000000265892953297188@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 10:19:48 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.5 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, Aug 1, 1997, 11:05:21 AM US CST swingert@creighton.edu wrote: >Derrick wrote: >> Don't ask. >competition with Ryan Mulroney, and it will be interesting to compare the >two in a freestyle circle (imagine that vibe, guys!). According to an And how about me, who has finally started kicking again; I've been busted back to beginner status! Having trouble breaking 100 consecutives; Freestyle? Whats that? No balance, no strength, yeah, the damn ankle still hurts, won't bend very much, and just doesn't work like it used to. 3 months of inactivity have allowed me to trade 5 pounds of muscle for 7 pounds of fat. I'll certainly be the joke of the freestyle circles... BTW, is McKenzie actually going to Worlds? I haven't heard from him for awhile. -- Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 1 17:18:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00976 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 17:17:44 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00972 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 17:17:41 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (969) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00967 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 17:17:36 GMT Received: from f35.hotmail.com (F35.hotmail.com [207.82.250.46]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01491 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:17:37 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by f35.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA22491; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708011717.KAA22491@f35.hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Aug 1997 10:17:37 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.172] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Circles Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 10:17:37 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >And how about me, who has finally started kicking again; I've been busted back to beginner status! Having trouble breaking 100 consecutives; Freestyle? Whats that? No balance, no strength, yeah, the damn ankle still hurts, won't bend very much, and just doesn't work like it used to. 3 months of inactivity have allowed me to trade 5 pounds of muscle for 7 pounds of fat. I'll certainly be the joke of the freestyle circles... > -- Derrick We still love you chicken man. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Aug 2 00:52:02 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA03827 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 2 Aug 1997 00:51:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA03823 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 2 Aug 1997 00:51:54 GMT Received: from shahrayar@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3820) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA03818 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 1997 00:51:54 GMT From: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com Received: from emout16.mail.aol.com (emout16.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.42]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06420 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 17:51:58 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout16.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id UAA26480 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 20:51:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 20:51:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970801205156_-255830697@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Brian McKenzie Videos Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 06:20:48 GMT Received: from utdallas.edu (utdallas.edu [129.110.10.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA22322 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 23:20:53 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by utdallas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA22045; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:07:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from infoserv.utdallas.edu by utdallas.edu (Brelay v6.01) with BLIMP; Tue, 05 Aug 1997 14:07:30 CDT Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:07:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Derric Scalf To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] move question. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What does a blurry set imply? Or, the question that has really been bothering me... what is the difference between a blurry whirl and a pogo paradox whirl? -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Aug 6 07:03:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA05880 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 07:03:10 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA05876 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 07:03:08 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5873) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA05871 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 07:03:07 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22683; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 00:03:02 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 00:07:03 -0700 To: Derric Scalf From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] move question. Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:07 PM -0700 8/5/97, Derric Scalf wrote: >What does a blurry set imply? Or, the question that has really been >bothering me... what is the difference between a blurry whirl and a pogo >paradox whirl? "Blurry" implies that the setting foot plants after the set and during the dexterity -- but it also implies that the following dexterity (after the initial mirage) is paradox. The distinction between blur and pogo paradox mirage, for instance, is whether or not you plant your setting foot in the middle of the move. For blurry whirl and pogo paradox whirl, same distinction -- if you don't plant, it's pogo paradox whirl. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Aug 7 08:00:36 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA06292 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:00:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA06288 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:00:20 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6285) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA06283 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:00:19 GMT Received: from f57.hotmail.com (F57.hotmail.com [207.82.250.143]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07161; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 01:00:13 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by f57.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA20140; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 01:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708070800.BAA20140@f57.hotmail.com> Received: from 199.183.204.218 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Aug 1997 01:00:11 PDT X-Originating-IP: [199.183.204.218] From: "Josh Penney" To: freestyle@footbag.org Cc: enlightener@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move question. Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 01:00:11 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >At 12:07 PM -0700 8/5/97, Derric Scalf wrote: >>what is the difference between a blurry whirl and a pogo >>paradox whirl? > >For blurry whirl and pogo paradox whirl, same distinction -- if you don't >plant, it's pogo paradox whirl. > I was under the impression that if you plant the setting foot, even after the modified (symposium) dexterity had been completed then the said modifier is null and void. Something about "maintaining the symposiumness of a move until the final contact", right, Scott? So pogo paradox whirl [to realign the argument - how mean!] would mean a measly five adds. For that matter, does any pogo set retain that nasty lil' add? I would like to exclude symposium-from-clipper and pogo diving symposium butterfly (Riiiight!) from this last question. Thank you all for your time. JP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Aug 7 08:21:27 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA06384 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:21:27 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA06380 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:21:25 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6377) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA06375 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:21:24 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07434 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 01:21:31 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 01:25:30 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] move question. Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Josh Penney sez: >I was under the impression that if you plant the setting foot, even >after the modified (symposium) dexterity had been completed then the >said modifier is null and void. >Something about "maintaining the symposiumness of a move until the final >contact", right, Scott? Who said pogo had anything to do with symposium any more? That's the old way of thinking of it. Nowadays, pogo is only worth 1 add (the dexterity) and is not really symposium. That's why I liked Scott's idea of having "loco" moves be different, but I hate the name. Now if everyone would just agree on this we can get on with our lives. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Aug 7 13:31:14 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA07507 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:31:10 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA07503 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:31:08 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7500) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA07498 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:31:08 GMT Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA09216; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 06:31:17 -0700 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3/SAS.03) id JAA17132; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:31:15 -0400 (EDT) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Message-Id: <199708071331.JAA17132@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] move question. To: brat@footbag.org (Steve Goldberg) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: from "Steve Goldberg" at Aug 7, 97 01:25:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Who said pogo had anything to do with symposium any more? That's the old > way of thinking of it. Nowadays, pogo is only worth 1 add (the dexterity) > and is not really symposium. That's why I liked Scott's idea of having > "loco" moves be different, but I hate the name. When I said the same thing about 6 months ago I got slammed by a bunch of so called "slurry" people. Good thing people are finally accepting this; it's pogo and it's one add and it's Tuan's. Good thing too. Loco is a great concept, although the name is hurting a little bit. We should try to make that stick, although very few people can do loco style. It basically means no plant after the set until the end of the move right? Alex From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Aug 7 14:22:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA07743 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:22:22 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA07739 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:22:20 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7736) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA07734 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:22:19 GMT Received: from f59.hotmail.com (F59.hotmail.com [207.82.250.145]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA09681 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 07:22:29 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by f59.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA10543; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 07:22:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708071422.HAA10543@f59.hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.232.26 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Aug 1997 07:22:28 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.232.26] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Cc: kilobit@hotmail.com Subject: [freestyle] something to grow on Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 07:22:28 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm sure all of you have been in the position of describing our sport to someone. Here is an example of what to say, and what not to to say. WHAT TO SAY: "Footbag is part sport, part martial art." WHAT NOT TO SAY: "Footbag is a bunch of guys dancing around catching balls." >From the desk of Dan Kramer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Aug 7 18:03:00 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01148 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:02:10 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01144 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:02:07 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1141) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01139 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:02:06 GMT Received: from f77.hotmail.com (F77.hotmail.com [207.82.250.183]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11989 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:02:03 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by f77.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA11280; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708071802.LAA11280@f77.hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Aug 1997 11:02:01 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.172] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] x-body rake? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 11:02:01 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Is it just me or is the x-body add for a x-body rake lame or what? Does that mean there is such a thing as a x-body toe stall? It is in no way shape or form a x-body move. A rake is a rake is a rake - 2 adds. What's your opinion? We'd like to know. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Aug 7 18:14:21 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01247 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:11:50 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01243 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:11:49 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1240) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01238 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:11:49 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12106; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:09:49 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199708071802.LAA11280@f77.hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:13:53 -0700 To: "Daniel Kramer" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] x-body rake? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:02 AM -0700 8/7/97, Daniel Kramer wrote: >Is it just me or is the x-body add for a x-body rake lame or what? >Does that mean there is such a thing as a x-body toe stall? It is in no >way shape or form a x-body move. A rake is a rake is a rake - 2 adds. Of course it's a cross-body move. The question is whether or not the following add categories make any sense: cross body, delay, body Our add system would make a lot more sense if they were gone. Imagine a world where there is no cross body and no delay add, and where the endless arguments over whether paradox is a body add would be null and void... You only get adds for dexterities and unusual surfaces. Ah, the simplicity. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Aug 7 18:26:00 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01337 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:25:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01333 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:25:58 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1330) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01328 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:25:58 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12245 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:25:59 -0700 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3/SAS.03) id OAA20082; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:25:53 -0400 (EDT) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Message-Id: <199708071825.OAA20082@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] x-body rake? To: grandincredible@hotmail.com (Daniel Kramer) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:25:53 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <199708071802.LAA11280@f77.hotmail.com> from "Daniel Kramer" at Aug 7, 97 11:02:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Dan, > Is it just me or is the x-body add for a x-body rake lame or what? Just you. > Does that mean there is such a thing as a x-body toe stall? Ummm.. Yes. Of course there is a cross body toe stall. Crossbody is a different word from clipper. Do you think that only an inside stall deserves a cross-body add? Dragon gets one for the outside stall, clipper for the inside stall, so why does toe not get one. After all it is caught on the right hand side with the left toe. That means it had to go CROSS-BODY. Cross body rake is a hard move, and very worthy of it's three adds. More importantly, there is no way no discredit the three adds it get's logically, because the toe catches the bag on the other side of the support leg, and carries it foward. I've heard people call it gyro rake when setting it from clipper (i.e. the leg that rakes is the same as the setting clipper). Whether gyro or cross-body, it's harder than a regular rake. Later, Alex From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Aug 7 18:41:35 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01422 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:41:34 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01418 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:41:33 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1415) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01413 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:41:33 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12723; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:41:33 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199708071825.OAA20082@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> References: <199708071802.LAA11280@f77.hotmail.com> from "Daniel Kramer" at Aug 7, 97 11:02:01 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:45:44 -0700 To: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] x-body rake? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:25 AM -0700 8/7/97, Alessandre S Naro wrote: >I've heard people call it gyro >rake when setting it from clipper (i.e. the leg that rakes is the same as >the setting clipper). Whether gyro or cross-body, it's harder than a >regular rake. Not gyro. How many times do I have to say this? Sheesh. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Aug 7 19:35:42 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01751 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:35:28 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01747 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:35:26 GMT Received: from kuchma@golden.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1744) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01742 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:35:26 GMT Received: from golden.net (golden.net [199.166.210.183]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13434 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:35:27 -0700 Received: from [199.166.210.107] (swo-107.golden.net [199.166.210.107]) by golden.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA19993 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:36:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:36:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org From: kuchma@golden.net (Mike Kuchma) Subject: [freestyle] Ride to Funtastik Summer Classic Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Kickers! I'm searching for a ride to the Summer Classic and will be forever grateful to the individual(s) who may be able to aid in getting me there. Thus, if any competitors out there will be travelling through either Toronto, Detroit, Niagara Falls (NY) or Buffalo en route to Pennsylvania, I can make arrangements to be in which ever city is most accomodating. Of course, future arrangements such as gas $ can be made out later. Drop me a message if anybody can help! -- Kuch From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Aug 7 19:41:39 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01824 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:41:38 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01820 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:41:37 GMT Received: from footbag13@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1817) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01815 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:41:37 GMT From: Footbag13@aol.com Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com (emout12.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13511 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:41:39 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA27528 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:41:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:41:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970807154126_-905576787@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] x-body rake? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wich brings us to the next move... A butterfly cought with a cross body toe instead of a cross body inside... the TOEDERFLY Question: If I start a butterfly but instead of catching it with a cross body inside, I catch it with a cross body rake, does this add anything to the cross body rake? Even if it doesn't, it's still a fun move... Jason From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Aug 7 19:46:42 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01888 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:46:41 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01884 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:46:40 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1881) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01879 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:46:40 GMT Received: from f72.hotmail.com (F72.hotmail.com [207.82.250.158]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13574 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:46:42 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by f72.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA27066; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708071946.MAA27066@f72.hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.232.27 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Aug 1997 12:46:40 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.232.27] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] x-body rake? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 12:46:40 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > >Wich brings us to the next move... >A butterfly cought with a cross body toe instead of a cross body inside... >the TOEDERFLY > >Question: If I start a butterfly but instead of catching it with a cross >body inside, I catch it with a cross body rake, does this add anything to the >cross body rake? Even if it doesn't, it's still a fun move... >Jason I just like saying the word TOEDERFLY. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Aug 7 20:11:42 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02084 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:11:36 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02080 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:11:33 GMT From: swingert@creighton.edu Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2077) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02075 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:11:33 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13800 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:11:34 -0700 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA012464692; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:11:33 -0500 Received: from localhost by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA208364692; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:11:32 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:11:32 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: swingert@creighton.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #196 In-Reply-To: <199708062350.XAA03908@eniac.yak.net.taz> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve wrote: > "Blurry" implies that the setting foot plants after the set and during the > dexterity -- but it also implies that the following dexterity (after the > initial mirage) is paradox. The distinction between blur and pogo paradox > mirage, for instance, is whether or not you plant your setting foot in the > middle of the move. Is this always true though? What about blurry eclipse, ripwalk, or blurry spinning butterfly (theoretically)? Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Aug 7 20:50:24 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02365 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:49:49 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02361 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:49:48 GMT From: swingert@creighton.edu Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2358) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02356 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:49:43 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA14185 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:49:45 -0700 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA207976983; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:49:43 -0500 Received: from localhost by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA286156982; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:49:43 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:49:42 -0500 (CDT) To: Verhoef.Anne@vcn.bc.ca Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Siempre blurry=pdx? In-Reply-To: <199708072034.NAA01224@vcn.bc.ca> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 7 Aug 1997 Verhoef.Anne@vcn.bc.ca wrote: > Blurry eclipse is: clip > op in out dex > op in out dex > op eclipse > A blur bail to eclipse. Okay, but is that paradox? > Ripwalk is not blurry because a butterfly isn't paradox. I'm confused now. I've always considered blurry to be a fast initial in-out dex by the foot opposite of the set (usually clipper). By this definition, ripwalk is blurry butterfly. Ripwalk, in my mind, should be set *exactly* the same as a blur, especially because when I do it, it feels just like a blurry set. > Blurry spinning butterfly? You mean like bock set butterfly? or spinning > ripwalk? Spinning ripwalk. Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Aug 7 21:37:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02727 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:36:54 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02723 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:36:52 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2720) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02718 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:36:51 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14666; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:36:52 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199708062350.XAA03908@eniac.yak.net.taz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:40:55 -0700 To: swingert@creighton.edu From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: move question. Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:11 PM -0700 8/7/97, swingert@creighton.edu wrote: > Is this always true though? What about blurry eclipse, ripwalk, or >blurry spinning butterfly (theoretically)? Blurry eclipse is not blurry and is misnamed. The real name is "stepping eclipse". There is no move blurry ripwalk. It's stepping butterfly. I have no idea what blurry spinning butterfly is meant to be. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Aug 7 21:58:45 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02818 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:57:39 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02814 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:57:39 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2811) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02809 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:57:38 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14881; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:57:39 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199708072034.NAA01224@vcn.bc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:01:50 -0700 To: swingert@creighton.edu From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Siempre blurry=pdx? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:49 PM -0700 8/7/97, swingert@creighton.edu wrote: >On Thu, 7 Aug 1997 Verhoef.Anne@vcn.bc.ca wrote: Actually, Sean, Adrian didn't send that message to the list, so you shouldn've have replied to the list. It's uncool as I've said many times before. So if you get private e-mail, please reply privately, not to the list. >> Blurry eclipse is: clip > op in out dex > op in out dex > op eclipse >> A blur bail to eclipse. > > Okay, but is that paradox? No, it is not paradox. It's not blurry. > I'm confused now. I've always considered blurry to be a fast initial >in-out dex by the foot opposite of the set (usually clipper). By this >definition, ripwalk is blurry butterfly. Ripwalk, in my mind, should be >set *exactly* the same as a blur, especially because when I do it, it >feels just like a blurry set. No, no, no, no, no. What you're describing is technically a "miraging" set. Whether or not you plant, the move is either "pogo" or "stepping". If the move is paradox that follows, then it's "blurry". More or less confused now? Here's a summary: Types of "miraging" sets: 1. all such sets where the setting leg doesn't plant during the dexterity are "pogo" 2. all such sets where the setting leg does plant are "stepping" 3. all such sets where the setting leg does plant and the second dexterity is paradox are "blurry" Examples: Blur [type 3, "miraging paradox mirage"] Blurry Blender [type 3, "miraging paradox blender"] Blurry Whirl [type 3, "miraging paradox whirl"] Blurry Torque [type 3, "miraging paradox torque"] Blurry Drifter [type 3, "miraging paradox drifter"] Etc.. Pogo Paradox Mirage [type 1; looks like blur but no plant] Pogo Paradox Blender [type 1; looks like blurry blender but no plant] Pogo Paradox Whirl [type 1; looks like blurry whirl but no plant] Pogo Paradox Torque [type 1; looks like blurry torque but no plant] Pogo Paradox Drifter [type 1; looks like blurry drifter but no plant] Etc.. Stepping Osis [type 2] == TORQUE ("miraging osis") Stepping Clipper Delay [type 2] == DRIFTER ("miraging [op] clipper delay") Stepping Eclipse [type 2] Stepping Butterfly [type 2, sometimes called "same-side ripwalk"] Stepping Whirl [type 2, same-side miraging whirl] Stepping Drifter [type 2] == (planting) HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER (double-dexterity drifter) Etc.. --- The fact of the matter is that the "miraging" set is the key to a million moves, including torque, drifter, blur, ripwalk, blizzard, blurry moves, stepping moves, etc. Even moves such as "whirl" can be looked at as "miraging".. (Think of "whirl" as a miraging same-side clipper delay...) To say that all miraging sets are blurry is, well, an oversimplification. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Aug 7 22:05:01 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02881 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 22:03:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02877 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 22:03:54 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2874) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02872 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 22:03:53 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14953; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:03:56 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199708072034.NAA01224@vcn.bc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:08:00 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Siempre blurry=pdx? Cc: swingert@creighton.edu Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Whoops.. correction to my last posting... In response to: >>> Blurry eclipse is: clip > op in out dex > op in out dex > op eclipse >>> A blur bail to eclipse. >> >> Okay, but is that paradox? I wrote: >No, it is not paradox. It's not blurry. I got that one wrong. I didn't read Adrian's description of the move closely enough. Yes, the move Adrian describes *is* paradox, but that's not the move I think you're talking about. What most people have been calling "Blurry Eclipse" is really "Stepping Eclipse".. It looks like this: clip > op in dex > op eclipse Adrian's move, clip > op in dex > op out dex > op eclipse, is really a Blurry "Lunar" Eclipse because of the extra dexterity and is definitely paradox. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 01:13:30 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA03822 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:12:13 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA03818 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:12:11 GMT Received: from ericwindsor@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3815) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA03813 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:12:10 GMT Received: from f43.hotmail.com (F43.hotmail.com [207.82.250.54]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16679 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:12:14 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by f43.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA02706; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708080112.SAA02706@f43.hotmail.com> Received: from 207.155.18.102 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Aug 1997 18:12:14 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.155.18.102] From: "Eric Windsor" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] x-body rake? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 18:12:14 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Is it just me or is the x-body add for a x-body rake lame or what? >Does that mean there is such a thing as a x-body toe stall? It is in no >way shape or form a x-body move. A rake is a rake is a rake - 2 adds. > >What's your opinion? We'd like to know. In my humble opinion, The add system was created not with difficulty in mind, but technicality. THE ADD SYSTEM IS LITTERAL. yea so what if osis is easy, its still a spinning>crossbody>delay. Three differernt additions in one move, hence making it three adds. Yea so what if cross body rake is easy, its still 3 different additions in one move making it 3 adds. If we start ruling out the additions that do exist in certain moves, whos to say we cant rule in additions for moves where the add obviously doesn't exist. I say we start calling Atom Smasher a 4 add move just because of its difficulty (dex>dex>delay>and whatever the hell you call this add that doesnt event exist>). The add system is exactly what it is, its a system that tabulates the additions in a given move, no matter the easyness or hardness of the addition, and gives it an "add value". The add system doesnt't give a shit that atom smasher is harder than osis, or that x-body rake is easy. All it cares about is how many additions you have in a given move. Eric Windsor 0 /|\ o \\ _// ` ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 06:11:47 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA05409 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 06:11:45 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA05405 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 06:11:43 GMT Received: from allman144@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5402) Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com (emout04.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.95]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA05400 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 06:11:42 GMT From: Allman144@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id CAA14657 for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 02:11:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 02:11:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970808021117_345150882@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #197 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi guys, I'm an 18 year old kicker and I've been kickin for about three years. I'm just starting to get some 3-add moves so I'm not as advanced as you guys. But one move I just can't get is a butterfly stall, I just CANT! Any tips? Anything? I can do an osis, and I'm working on a double leg over and having trouble with that too, any tips on that? I would be grateful for some help. Thanks Tony From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 06:14:46 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA05437 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 06:14:45 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA05433 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 06:14:44 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5430) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA05428 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 06:14:44 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19013; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:14:50 -0700 Received: (from marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA20678; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:14:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:14:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Verhoef Anne Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: move question. To: Steve Goldberg cc: swingert@creighton.edu, freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 7 Aug 1997, Steve Goldberg wrote: > At 1:11 PM -0700 8/7/97, swingert@creighton.edu wrote: > > Is this always true though? What about blurry eclipse, ripwalk, or > >blurry spinning butterfly (theoretically)? > > There is no move blurry ripwalk. It's stepping butterfly. Yeah there is. clip > op in out dex > op in out dex > op out in dex > op clip. Very hard but it's possible. > I have no idea what blurry spinning butterfly is meant to be. I think Sean means gyro ripwalk (gyro mirage to butterfly all in one move). clip > (back spin) > same in out dex > op out in dex > op clip That's not paradox because you don't plant for the mirage after the gyro set. If you wanted this move to be paradox you would have to plant after the spin and use your other foot for the mirage. the move would be really sick: clip > (back spin) > op in out dex > op out in dex > op clip Spinning paradox ripwalk. Pretty much impossible, it would take some pretty quick feet to hit that. Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 06:36:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA05546 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 06:36:24 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA05542 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 06:36:23 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5539) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA05537 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 06:36:23 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19173 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:36:30 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:40:34 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: move question. Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:14 PM -0700 8/7/97, Verhoef Anne wrote: >Yeah there is. clip > op in out dex > op in out dex > op out in dex > op >clip. Very hard but it's possible. True enough. But not at all what they were talking about, for the record. >> I have no idea what blurry spinning butterfly is meant to be. > >I think Sean means gyro ripwalk (gyro mirage to butterfly all in one >move). clip > (back spin) > same in out dex > op out in dex > op clip Yeah, that's a cool move. But "blurry spinning butterfly" is far from the correct name for it. Hopefully my diatribes on what's blurry and what's gyrating should make that clearer. Yes, Adrian, the move you describe would indeed be "gyrating ripwalk." >That's not paradox because you don't plant for the mirage after >the gyro set. Correct. >If you wanted this move to be paradox you would have to >plant after the spin >and use your other foot for the mirage. the move would be really sick: >clip > (back spin) > op in out dex > op out in dex > op clip Right again. "Spinning paradox ripwalk." Though I have to mention at this point that, among the top players, the concept of a "spinning paradox" move is still not agreed upon. Anyone online who can actually hit spinning paradox moves (like "Marius", for example) and who want to comment on that would be welcome to do so. I've been thinking about it and I think it makes sense to have spinning paradox moves, but maybe there's an argument against it? I'm sure Derrick can apply the current "accepted" paradox definition and tell us (probably for the nth time) whether or not it's possible by that definition. (But that definition may not be right, I just have to add!) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 08:18:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA05874 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 08:18:10 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA05870 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 08:18:08 GMT Received: from nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5867) Received: from ncsa.uiuc.edu (sdgmail.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.103.66]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA05865 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 08:18:07 GMT Received: from void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (void [141.142.103.20]) by ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26195 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 03:18:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nhall@localhost) by void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id DAA09901; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 03:22:03 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 03:22:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Nicholas Hall To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #197 In-Reply-To: <970808021117_345150882@emout04.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 8 Aug 1997 Allman144@aol.com wrote: > Hi guys, I'm an 18 year old kicker and I've been kickin for about three > years. I'm just starting to get some 3-add moves so I'm not as advanced as > you guys. But one move I just can't get is a butterfly stall, I just CANT! Well, can you hit a clipper? I learned the clipper by stalling on my left toe and setting a little away from my body, and stalling crossbody inside. From there, the only difference to get to a butterfly is set the bag straight up and hop to your right as you switch feet, rather than setting away from your body. 'Course, the bag goes under your left leg as you do this... easy. Of course, if you can't hit a clipper, then the answer is... practice clippers. :) Nick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Nick Hall | nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu | http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/nhall | | National Center for Supercomputing App's | University of Illinois | | "You'll hear a lot of people talking about individual freedom- But | | when they see a free individual, boy, they get scared" -Easy Rider | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 14:09:07 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA07430 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:09:05 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA07426 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:09:02 GMT From: swingert@creighton.edu Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7423) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA07421 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:09:02 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA21743 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 07:09:11 -0700 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA155939349; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:09:09 -0500 Received: from localhost by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA296529343; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:09:04 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:09:03 -0500 (CDT) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #197 In-Reply-To: <199708072350.XAA03544@eniac.yak.net.taz> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve wrote: > Actually, Sean, Adrian didn't send that message to the list, so you > shouldn've have replied to the list. It's uncool as I've said many times > before. You're right Steve, and Adrian didn't send that message to the list. I accidently misread his header information and thought he did. Sorry Adrian. > So if you get private e-mail, please reply privately, not to the > list. Steve, I know. Relax. Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 14:44:04 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA07430 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:09:05 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA07426 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:09:02 GMT From: swingert@creighton.edu Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7423) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA07421 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:09:02 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA21743 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 07:09:11 -0700 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA155939349; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:09:09 -0500 Received: from localhost by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA296529343; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:09:04 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:09:03 -0500 (CDT) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #197 In-Reply-To: <199708072350.XAA03544@eniac.yak.net.taz> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve wrote: > Actually, Sean, Adrian didn't send that message to the list, so you > shouldn've have replied to the list. It's uncool as I've said many times > before. You're right Steve, and Adrian didn't send that message to the list. I accidently misread his header information and thought he did. Sorry Adrian. > So if you get private e-mail, please reply privately, not to the > list. Steve, I know. Relax. Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 17:20:01 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00713 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:19:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00709 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:19:31 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (706) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00704 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:19:30 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F90.hotmail.com [207.82.250.196]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA23256 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:19:31 -0700 Received: (qmail 7854 invoked by uid 0); 8 Aug 1997 15:30:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19970808153008.7853.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 08 Aug 1997 08:30:07 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.172] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] x-body rake? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 08:30:07 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eric Windsor wrote: >If we start ruling out the additions that do exist in certain moves, >whos to say we cant rule in additions for moves where the add obviously doesn't exist. I say we start calling Atom Smasher a 4 add move just because of its difficulty (dex>dex>delay>and whatever the hell you call this add that doesnt event exist>). EUREKA! Let IFAB get a freestyle committee to vote on the difficulty of different moves. Add counts will be only a suggestion to the voters as to the the move's final difficulty rating. So an atom smasher COULD get a difficulty boost, maybe to 3.4 and an osis MIGHT be downgraded to a 2.7. Other moves would be rated as well. This would happen next: 1. Getting rid of add counts as part of any judging system unless video verification is present. Add counts are already being screwed up left and right with whole numbers - numbers to the tenth would be impossible. What's your opinion, we'd like to know. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 17:20:26 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00735 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:20:25 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00730 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:20:24 GMT Received: from gsjohnso@udel.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (727) Received: from strauss.udel.edu (strauss.udel.edu [128.175.13.74]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00723; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:20:23 GMT Received: from localhost (gsjohnso@localhost) by strauss.udel.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15349; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:20:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:20:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Scott Johnson To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org cc: freestyle-digest@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #197 In-Reply-To: <199708072350.XAA03544@eniac.yak.net.taz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yeah, just one question: If you do three mirages in a row, is it a mirage a trois? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 17:31:18 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00794 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:31:17 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00790 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:31:17 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (787) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00785 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:31:16 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA23385; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:31:15 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970808153008.7853.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:35:07 -0700 To: "Daniel Kramer" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] x-body rake? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 8:30 AM -0700 8/8/97, Daniel Kramer wrote: >EUREKA! Let IFAB get a freestyle committee to vote on the difficulty of >different moves. Oh, that's a doosie! Yeah! Let a bunch of old farts, most of whom don't even have any idea what a Blur is, set the difficulty levels! Yeah, good plan, Dan. :-) [For Sean] >1. Getting rid of add counts as part of any judging system unless video >verification is present. Add counts are already being screwed up left >and right with whole numbers - numbers to the tenth would be impossible. I think the point you missed, Dan, was that "add counts" are actually a quite small part of the judging system, and are used more to determine uniqueness of tricks in a routine than to determine the difficulty of a routine (the "composition" score relies on the add break-downs much more than anything else). Composition is meant to assess the different elements you bring into play in your routine. But even more importantly, and we've rehashed this a million time on this list as well (though I realize, Dan, you've just recently joined), this is a red herring. So many people think adds are more important (in the judging system) than they really are. First of all, there just aren't that many events that use the IFAB judging system (I count 3 events per year), and secondly, the adds themselves don't count 1 for 1 -- they get mathematically mutated and modified until the final "difficulty" score is watered down (as it probably should be). But I digress... Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 19:29:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01411 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:29:03 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01406 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:29:02 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1403) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01401 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:29:01 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net ([12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA24612 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:29:03 -0700 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id da013471 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:55:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] x-body rake? Message-Id: <000000270622953911149@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 13:52:29 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.5 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, Aug 8, 1997, 10:30:07 AM US CST Daniel Kramer wrote: >different moves. Add counts will be only a suggestion to the voters as >to the the move's final difficulty rating. So an atom smasher COULD get I've proposed before to ditch the current add system and go to rote add values. Despite the appeal of a 'system' that explains everything, what you end up doing is learning each move individually anyway. Since there are quirks and inconsistencies in the application of the add system, learning the "system" and then learning the "exceptions" is more complex than rote memorization of all the individual moves. Almost all the work for this is already done. There's only a few moves that people squabble about. And a rote system would allow us to rate moves closer to their true 'difficulty' than the current system does. But don't go talking about fractions of an add - it would make counting them impossible! (Actually, the complexity of add fractions making the add system collapse under its own weight would be a glorious moment in my existence. Nothing goes against my conception of what freestyle is more than bean-counting! But... Measurement is the price of common acceptance. [sigh...]) -- Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 19:32:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01477 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:32:10 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01473 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:32:09 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1470) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01468 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:32:09 GMT Received: from f2.hotmail.com (F2.hotmail.com [207.82.250.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA24648 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:32:11 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by f2.hotmail.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA22526; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 11:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708081832.LAA22526@f2.hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 08 Aug 1997 11:32:41 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.172] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] adds and judging Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 11:32:41 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve Goldberg wrote: >I think the point you missed, Dan, was that "add counts" are actually >a quite small part of the judging system, and are used more to >determine uniqueness of tricks in a routine than to determine the >difficulty of a routine (the "composition" score relies on the add >break-downs much more than anything else). Composition is meant to >assess the different elements you bring into play in your routine. As insignificant as an add count may seem in the present judging system, the fact is that a SINGLE MISSED ADD can produce the WRONG WINNER. Either make adds more accurate or get rid of them. Happy Shredding, Dan Kramer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 20:05:54 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA01658 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:05:54 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA01654 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:05:52 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1651) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA01649 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:05:51 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net ([12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA25067 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:05:53 -0700 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id pa013561 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:14:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds and judging Message-Id: <000000270932953915848@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 15:10:48 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.5 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, Aug 8, 1997, 1:32:41 PM US CST Daniel Kramer wrote: >As insignificant as an add count may seem in the present judging system, >the fact is that a SINGLE MISSED ADD can produce the WRONG WINNER. I've actually done a fair amount of number crunching and results cross- checking. The raw add count of a performance, while rarely accurate, is one of the most accurate components of the judging system. 90% of counts are within 2% accuracy; 95% of counts are within 5% accuracy, and 99% of counts are within 10% accuracy. If you want to worry about numbers that produce innacurate results, misscounting one single unique move is the equivalent of misscounting 10 adds! And the presentation? Its all subjective, and scores I've seen are so far off what I think is "correct" that its like missing 10 unique moves! Adds are just an enigmatic symbol; pushing the envelope of difficulty is the thing that symbol represents. The two should not be confused. -- Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 20:09:24 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA01694 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:09:24 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA01690 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:09:23 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1687) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA01685 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:09:23 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net ([12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA25121 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:09:25 -0700 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id qa013562 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:17:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] x-body rake? Message-Id: <000000270942953916034@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 15:13:54 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.5 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, Aug 8, 1997, 1:52:29 PM US CST Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: >On Fri, Aug 8, 1997, 10:30:07 AM US CST Daniel Kramer wrote: > >>different moves. Add counts will be only a suggestion to the voters as And by the way, yes, I think counting an add for cross-body in cross-body rakes is way lame. -- Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 21:20:08 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02021 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 21:19:53 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02017 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 21:19:52 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2014) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02012 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 21:19:52 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA25777 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:19:53 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000000270932953915848@mlerf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:23:45 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds and judging Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:10 PM -0700 8/8/97, Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: >On Fri, Aug 8, 1997, 1:32:41 PM US CST Daniel Kramer wrote: >>As insignificant as an add count may seem in the present judging system, >>the fact is that a SINGLE MISSED ADD can produce the WRONG WINNER. > >... >If you want to worry about numbers that produce innacurate results, >misscounting one single unique move is the equivalent of misscounting 10 adds! >... > >Adds are just an enigmatic symbol; pushing the envelope of difficulty is the >thing that symbol represents. The two should not be confused. Right-o, Derrick. Exactly what I was trying to say. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 22:18:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02377 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:18:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02373 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:18:10 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2370) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02368 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:18:10 GMT Received: from f34.hotmail.com (F34.hotmail.com [207.82.250.45]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26450 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:18:13 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by f34.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA12578; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:18:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708082218.PAA12578@f34.hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 08 Aug 1997 15:18:12 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.172] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] judging Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 15:18:12 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>>As insignificant as an add count may seem in the present judging system, >>>the fact is that a SINGLE MISSED ADD can produce the WRONG WINNER. >> >>... >>If you want to worry about numbers that produce innacurate results, >>misscounting one single unique move is the equivalent of misscounting 10 adds! >>... >> >>Adds are just an enigmatic symbol; pushing the envelope of difficulty is the >>thing that symbol represents. The two should not be confused. > >Right-o, Derrick. Exactly what I was trying to say. > > Steve Whether its adds, contacts, delays, or dexterities - human error abounds. I'd like to see a totally subjective judging scheme. I would rather lose by a difference in aesthetic appreciation than by a judge missing a dexterity when he dropped his pencil. See you in Portland those lucky enough to be going. Happy Shredding, Dan Kramer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 22:22:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02397 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:22:05 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02393 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:22:04 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2390) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02388 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:22:03 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26498; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:22:02 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199708082218.PAA12578@f34.hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:25:53 -0700 To: "Daniel Kramer" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] judging Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 3:18 PM -0700 8/8/97, Daniel Kramer wrote: >Whether its adds, contacts, delays, or dexterities - human error >abounds. I'd like to see a totally subjective judging scheme. I would >rather lose by a difference in aesthetic appreciation than by a judge >missing a dexterity when he dropped his pencil. Then, you're in LUCK! IFAB offers TWO judging systems: (1) Ranked-Component, (2) Formula-Based. The one everyone seems to harp on is #2, the formula-based system. Check out the ranked-component system -- it's what I've been advocating all year this year. We used it at the California State Championships and at the Montreal International Championships. You can find a complete description in the IFAB rulebook, or on-line at http://ifab.footbag.org Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Aug 8 23:20:00 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA02680 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 23:17:15 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA02676 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 23:17:14 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2673) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA02671 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 23:17:13 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net ([12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA27012 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:17:17 -0700 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ea013628 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:25:14 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] judging Message-Id: <000000271212953927329@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 18:22:09 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.5 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, Aug 8, 1997, 5:18:12 PM US CST Daniel Kramer wrote: >abounds. I'd like to see a totally subjective judging scheme. I would >rather lose by a difference in aesthetic appreciation than by a judge Does human error exist in aesthetic appreciation? One of the reasons the technical formula-based system was developed was to get away from the "popularity contest" aspect of purely subjective judging systems. As if composition judges don't interpret the more popular player's movements with more interest and zest anyway. Formula-based judging systems just obfuscate the process; judges can 'hide' behind these numbers and thier input can have some anonymity. Your input is only one 'piece' so you can disclaim responsibility for the final outcome. Far easier than having to tell somebody point blank "I think the other guy did better than you - for all of these reasons." -- Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Aug 9 05:19:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA05038 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 05:18:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA05034 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 05:18:54 GMT Received: from allman144@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5031) Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com (emout07.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.22]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA05029 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 05:18:53 GMT From: Allman144@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id BAA28657 for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 01:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 01:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970809011827_-1707333600@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #198 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org All of you guys are wasting your time arguing about all of this. I can't believe I just sat and spent 15 minutes reading this crap! You all sound like a bunch of old women! Let's all relax. Tony From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Aug 9 17:23:31 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00635 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:23:20 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00631 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:23:19 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (628) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00626 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:23:19 GMT Received: from baygate.bayarea.net (baygate.bayarea.net [204.71.212.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00380 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 10:23:20 -0700 Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by baygate.bayarea.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA18388; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 10:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 10:27:16 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Stanford Freestyle JAM, Tues., Aug. 19th, 2pm Cc: kathyh@nccn.net, beng@leland.stanford.edu Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey stylers! The Tuesday just following Worlds (that'll be August 19th, at 2pm), we're having a freestyle JAM at Stanford University in Palo Alto, California, to celebrate Alex Naro's visit as well as the recent relocation of several freestylers to this area, including: Eric Wulff, Tu Vu, Leonard "Sparky" Griswell, Sunil Jani, and Ryan Mulroney! I can't promise they will all will be there, but I know a bunch will, including many of the existing Bay Area freestylers (such as Red Fred Husted, Jeff "JBoy" Gran, and, well, yours truly!). Who knows, maybe even Tuan Vu, Carol Wedemeyer, and Lisa Monti will show up. :-) If you're in the area, put it on your calendar and come by! (Yes, Michael, that means you!) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Aug 9 17:27:13 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00658 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:27:12 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00654 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:27:12 GMT Received: from ericwindsor@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (651) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00649 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:27:11 GMT Received: from f11.hotmail.com (F11.hotmail.com [207.82.250.22]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00402; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 10:27:13 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by f11.hotmail.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA08435; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 10:27:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708091727.KAA08435@f11.hotmail.com> Received: from 207.155.18.100 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 09 Aug 1997 10:27:12 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.155.18.100] From: "Eric Windsor" To: brat@footbag.org Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] judging Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 10:27:12 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Then, you're in LUCK! > >IFAB offers TWO judging systems: (1) Ranked-Component, (2) Formula-Based. > >The one everyone seems to harp on is #2, the formula-based system. Check >out the ranked-component system -- it's what I've been advocating all year >this year. We used it at the California State Championships and at the >Montreal International Championships. Dont forget Steve. This was also the system used at the heart of freestyle, the ALL FREESTYLE TOURNAMENT. eric windsor ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Aug 9 17:53:44 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00720 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:53:43 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00716 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:53:42 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (713) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00711 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:53:42 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00596; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 10:53:42 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199708091727.KAA08435@f11.hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 10:57:39 -0700 To: "Eric Windsor" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] judging Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:27 AM -0700 8/9/97, Eric Windsor wrote: >Dont forget Steve. This was also the system used at the heart of >freestyle, the ALL FREESTYLE TOURNAMENT. Far from it. The system used at Heart of Footbag Freestyle Tournament was an ad-hoc, totally random system, made up by each panel of judges just before we went on. Some judges agreed to vote unanimously on the rankings, while others added up the scores and averaged, while still others used the IFAB method of "lowest sum of ranks wins". In any case, the rankings were done in a "gestalt" fashion, i.e., judges just watched the routines and ranked them. In the IFAB Ranked-Component system, there's a little more structure to it. I *wish* someone had suggested we use the IFAB system at the Heart. That's why I started advocating the Ranked-Component system -- in reaction to the fiasco at the Heart. I don't know about you, but I'd personally like to know before I go to a tournament what judging system will be used. I'd also like to have some expectation that it'll be one of the official systems, so the expectations are essentially the same from tournament to tournament. I wish everyone would go right now and read the IFAB Ranked Component system description. I was amazed at the tournaments I used the system at this year how few people even knew it existed. I also wish anyone putting on a freestyle tournament would consider using the IFAB Ranked Component system instead of making up their own system. I can send anyone putting on a freestyle tournament a template for the judging sheets which I created for Montreal and Santa Rosa. They match the IFAB rulebook exactly, and the system seemed to work pretty well. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Aug 10 12:56:49 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA00892 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:56:11 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA00888 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:56:09 GMT Received: from dyun@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (885) Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (dyun@MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA00883 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:56:08 GMT Received: (from dyun@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3/SAS.03) id IAA20408 for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 08:56:09 -0400 (EDT) From: dyun@sas.upenn.edu (Dennis Yun) Message-Id: <199708101256.IAA20408@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Great Went Gathering? To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 08:56:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Phishead Phreestylers: Those going to the Great Went this coming Saturday and Sunday in Maine can contact me for meeting time and place. So far, Ethan Klein, Dennis Lee, and yours truly have plans to make the trek. I jammed with Chris, from Maryland, at the VABeach show. Will you show up, Chris? Sharin' in the Groove... ---------------------------------------------------------------- Dennis Yun dyun@sas.upenn.edu 1537 Odman Dr. dyun@4114.org Chesapeake, VA 23321 "So it goes."- Kurt Vonnegut Jr. ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Aug 11 23:46:16 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA02394 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:45:31 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA02380 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:45:24 GMT Received: from nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2375) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA02373 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:45:23 GMT Received: from ncsa.uiuc.edu (sdgmail.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.103.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22599 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:45:27 -0700 Received: from void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (void [141.142.103.20]) by ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04042 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:46:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nhall@localhost) by void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id QAA19905; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:49:18 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:49:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Nicholas Hall To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Pacific NW kicks? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey All- Well, the girlfriend dumped me, I graduated school somehow, the job's about to dry up... It's time for a change of scenery. I'm looking at relocating to somewhere in the Pacific NorthWest. Probably somewhere generally between Portland and Seattle (leaning towards Seattle). I was wondering if any kind souls would mind filling me in on the freestyle scene, and where I might go to find it while I'm up there. Any skill level is welcome to respond- If you're on this list, you're almost certainly better than me. :) Thanks in advance! Nick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Nick Hall | nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu | http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/nhall | | National Center for Supercomputing App's | University of Illinois | | "You'll hear a lot of people talking about individual freedom- But | | when they see a free individual, boy, they get scared" -Easy Rider | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Aug 11 23:46:16 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA02396 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:45:32 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA02387 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:45:26 GMT Received: from nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2382) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA02379 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:45:24 GMT Received: from ncsa.uiuc.edu (sdgmail.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.103.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22603 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:45:27 -0700 Received: from void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (void [141.142.103.20]) by ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01491 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:48:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nhall@localhost) by void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id NAA18882; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:51:36 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:51:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Nicholas Hall To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] x-body rake? In-Reply-To: <000000270942953916034@mlerf.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 8 Aug 1997 dfogle@mlerf.org wrote: > And by the way, yes, I think counting an add for cross-body in cross-body > rakes is way lame. OK, my two cents worth on this sizzler of an issue: I think a xbody rake is significantly harder than a normal rake. I don't, however, think it is xbody. I always thought the extra add was for doing the move "blind" (i.e. you can do the move zen style, snag it from behind you without looking) or because of the bag going behind your back. Actually the latter makes the most sense- when I do an xbody rake, the bag passes behind me in much the same way as an osis. So I say give it the add. Nick (PS just so we're all clear here, when I'm thinking of a xbody rake, I'm think of setting the bag backwards from a left toe set, "opening" my hips blind (turning a bit to the right) and raking with my right toe. Is this what we're all referring to?) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Nick Hall | nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu | http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/nhall | | National Center for Supercomputing App's | University of Illinois | | "You'll hear a lot of people talking about individual freedom- But | | when they see a free individual, boy, they get scared" -Easy Rider | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Aug 19 05:16:18 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA05201 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 19 Aug 1997 05:15:18 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA05197 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 19 Aug 1997 05:15:17 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5194) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA05192 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 1997 05:15:16 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA11425; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:15:22 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:18:46 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Stanford Freestyle JAM tomorrow, 2pm Cc: kathyh@nccn.net, beng@leland.stanford.edu Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org REMINDER: Tomorrow (Tuesday, August 19th, at 2pm), we're having a freestyle JAM at Stanford University in Palo Alto, California, to celebrate Alex Naro's visit as well as the recent relocation of several freestylers to this area, including: Eric Wulff, Tu Vu, Leonard "Sparky" Griswell, Sunil Jani, and Ryan Mulroney! If you're in the area, come by! E-mail or call me for directions by 12pm tomorrow (Tuesday). Don't call before 11am. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Aug 20 18:35:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01788 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 18:35:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01784 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 18:35:07 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1781) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01779 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 18:35:07 GMT Received: from baygate.bayarea.net (baygate.bayarea.net [204.71.212.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00411 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:35:09 -0700 Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by baygate.bayarea.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11804 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:39:41 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] BAP Grew at Worlds Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everyone.. At this year's World Footbag Championships, the Big-Add Posse did a half-time demo at the finals match on Sunday where all the present members stepped onto the net court to freestyle for the audience. Just like last year, Pete Irish was the last man standing. Kenny (The Enforcer) freestyled at this year's BAP demo, but didn't last long in his net shoes. (Yes, he was in the net finals.) At the end of the demo, Pete took the mic and announced the induction of SIX new members to the Big-Add Posse! This is an acknowledgement of a surge of top-notch players -- the BAP members are opening their doors to the players they think are following their example of pushing the envelope of freestyle footbag, thus furthering the sport. Pete mentioned that there were quite a few freestylers considered for membership who were not inducted this time around, but that they shouldn't take offense as the "BAP has their eye on them" and will likely induct them soon. I should also mention that a major requirement for membership in BAP is that the members *see* potential members freestyling up front and personal. So some people weren't inducted who might have qualified just because they either weren't there or weren't playing! Okay, okay, so who are the new members? They are (in no particular order): Ryan "The Regulator" Mulroney Noah "Merlyn" Dubreuil (amazingly, Merlyn is really his middle name!) Tu "Huge" Vu "Red" Fred Husted "Big-Add" Chad Devlahovich "Teva Dave" Holton I guess a few people were mad at me that I didn't put this information in the major announcement that I sent out with Worlds results two days ago, but I just didn't have time. If anyone else wants the job of e-mailing all the results to the world on time, please take it from me. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Aug 25 22:41:17 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03270 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 22:40:51 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03266 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 22:40:50 GMT Received: from proshred@ix.netcom.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3263) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03261 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 22:40:49 GMT Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01821 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:40:52 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA22103 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 17:40:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sjx-ca65-25.ix.netcom.com(206.217.121.89) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma022070; Mon Aug 25 17:40:28 1997 Message-ID: <3402418C.44C@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:38:04 -0700 From: Mike Niday Reply-To: proshred@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: [footbag] club questions References: <19970825222447.2666.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Josh Penney wrote: > > >Our first club meeting will be this week, I was wondering what are > >some ideas to keep people interested in it. The club has mostly > >beginners. > I would definitely show the "tricks of the trade" video. Mighty proshred@ix.netcom.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Aug 26 21:50:24 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA04019 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:49:13 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA04015 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:49:12 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4012) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA04010 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:49:11 GMT Received: from f49.hotmail.com (F49.hotmail.com [207.82.250.60]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17188 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 14:49:14 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by f49.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA01949; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 14:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708262149.OAA01949@f49.hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 14:49:13 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.172] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] freestylers at Funtastik Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 14:49:13 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Any word on freestylers competing or attending the Funtastik tournament this weekend. If you are, please make a note to the list. I hope there's a good turn-out despite the recent exodus of Pete, Tuan, Tu, Eric, and Sunil O'Neal. East coast must endure. See you in Harrisburg. DK ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Aug 27 01:08:55 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA05351 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 01:07:32 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA05347 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 01:07:29 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5344) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA05342 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 01:07:28 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.194] (brat_194.bayarea.net [205.219.91.194]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19403; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:07:30 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199708262149.OAA01949@f49.hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:07:56 -0700 To: "Daniel Kramer" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] freestylers at Funtastik Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:49 PM -0700 8/26/97, Daniel Kramer wrote: >Any word on freestylers competing or attending the Funtastik tournament >this weekend. If you are, please make a note to the list. I hope there's >a good turn-out despite the recent exodus of Pete, Tuan, Tu, Eric, and >Sunil O'Neal. East coast must endure. Don't go starting any false rumors! Just because Tuan and Eric and Sunil have moved away doesn't mean they're not coming! As far as I know, a lot of pro freestylers will be there. Eric and Carol are most likely going (as usual), and Sunil will be there for sure. Tuan is still working on it and may get a way to go but he doesn't know as of