From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 3 01:16:10 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04823 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 01:15:41 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04819 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 01:15:40 GMT Received: from ericwindsor@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4816) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04814 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 01:15:39 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F11.hotmail.com [207.82.250.22]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA08092 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:15:44 -0700 Received: (qmail 19676 invoked by uid 0); 3 Sep 1997 01:15:43 -0000 Message-ID: <19970903011543.19675.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.184.226.94 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:15:43 PDT X-Originating-IP: [205.184.226.94] From: "Eric Windsor" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Name for Leg-Beating Whirl Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:15:43 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all you stylers, I waz just wondering if anyone out there has hit a leg beater, but instead of doing a butterfly as the second dexterity, you do a whirl. If there is no name for it, I call it a reactor. This one took some skoolin. right toe>op out-in>op in-out>left clipper Eric Windsor O /|\ o \\ _// ` http://www.javaconnection.com/oopsfootbag ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 4 00:12:27 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA05126 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 00:12:18 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA05121 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 00:12:17 GMT Received: from adrabek@eagle.cc.ukans.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5118) Received: from eagle.cc.ukans.edu (eagle.cc.ukans.edu [129.237.34.3]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA05114; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 00:12:12 GMT Received: from localhost by eagle.cc.ukans.edu (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/12Jan95-0207PM) id AA23800; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:12:11 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:12:11 -0500 (CDT) From: DRABEK To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Cc: freestyle-digest@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] In need of ride to Ozo Open In-Reply-To: <199709032350.XAA04924@eniac.yak.net.taz> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What's up freestylers! A kid on my floor is from Springfield and was planning to go home the same weekend as the Ozarks Open and now he isn't. So if anybody is heading out there and would be willing to swing by Lawrence, Kansas, and has room in their car, I would be willing to kick down gas $$. Thanx. P.S. is a rt. clip>in out op> rt. eclipse called a blurry or pogo eclipse? I'm not planting my set foot so I'm leaning towards pogo but what do you guys think? Andrew Drabek Kansas University Ellsworth 3E From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 4 04:28:55 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA06570 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 04:28:54 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA06566 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 04:28:53 GMT Received: from hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6563) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA06561 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 04:28:52 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA24414 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:28:58 -0700 Received: from coffee.cs.uidaho.edu (coffee.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.77]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.8.5/1.1) with ESMTP id VAA26616 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by coffee.cs.uidaho.edu (8.8.5/1.0) with SMTP id VAA22504 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:28:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: coffee.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:28:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Hillebrand To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] rod laver accident Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I got ahold of some deceivingly sharp scissors, and I accidentally poked a hole through the outer nylon mesh of my new shoes! Man, does that bite. Does anyone know of a way to fix it so that the hole doesn't spread? My mom suggested that I use some of her FrayCheck that stops fraying of fabric hems and seams, but I just don't know. Perhaps I should dab some freesole on there? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 4 16:08:08 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00600 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:07:05 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00592 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:07:01 GMT Received: from hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (589) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00587 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:06:58 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29261 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:06:57 -0700 Received: from coffee.cs.uidaho.edu (coffee.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.77]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.8.5/1.1) with ESMTP id JAA07828 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by coffee.cs.uidaho.edu (8.8.5/1.0) with SMTP id JAA22963 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:06:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: coffee.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:06:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Hillebrand To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] worlds results :( Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org That makes me feel real great that I got LAST place in intermediate freestyle. Even the guy who just kicked it really damn high over and over and over beat me?!!? ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 4 18:58:51 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01890 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 18:58:43 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01886 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 18:58:42 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1883) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01881 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 18:58:41 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA32104 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:58:43 -0700 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA19574 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:58:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Verhoef Anne To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Paradox DBL Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, If anyone out there has some tips on paradox double legover, it would be appreciated. Thanks, Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 4 20:05:45 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02683 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:05:36 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02679 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:05:33 GMT Received: from joshb@emair.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2676) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02674 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:05:32 GMT Received: from emair.com ([207.53.162.234]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA00449 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:05:33 -0700 Received: from Empire-Message_Server by emair.com with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 04 Sep 1997 13:15:01 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 13:09:27 -0700 From: Josh Bright To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Torque Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, I am trying to get torques down, and I was wondering if it was still a torque if you set it from a right toe delay instead of a clipper, and if anyone has any tips they would like to share on the Torque, I would love to hear them. Josh joshb@emair.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 4 20:47:06 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03000 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:47:05 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02996 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:47:04 GMT Received: from crvich@raleigh.ibm.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2993) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02991 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:47:03 GMT Received: from fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns2d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.236]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00868 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:47:05 -0700 Received: from rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.48]) by fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7RTP-FW1.1) with ESMTP id QAA42978 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:47:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (ode1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.178.164]) by rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id QAA32184 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:47:04 -0400 Received: from odent1.raleigh.ibm.com by ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA26940; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:46:57 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970904164600.00906970@ode1> X-Sender: crvich@ode1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 16:46:00 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox DBL In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >If anyone out there has some tips on paradox double legover, it would be >appreciated. Interesting that you ask...a few days ago I actually hit two of them (one on each side) with a Butterfly in between. Yow! (I was happy ;-)! I usually set the bag at almost chest-height, turn into it slightly, go over high with the first leg, lower and quicker with the second. The thing that kills me on any dbl leg over (toe-set, clipper-set, pdx, etc.) is forgetting that the second leg doesn't need to go nearly as high as the first. Good luck! -- Ernest M. Crvich http://www.mindspring.com/~ecrvich Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 5 07:04:23 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA07274 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:04:21 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA07270 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:04:18 GMT Received: from nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7267) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA07265 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:04:17 GMT Received: from ncsa.uiuc.edu (sdgmail.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.103.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA09282 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 00:04:23 -0700 Received: from void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (void [141.142.103.20]) by ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA29823 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:05:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nhall@localhost) by void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id CAA00512; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:07:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:07:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Nicholas Hall To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] What's New... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Howdy all- I haven't been on the list in a while (been packing) but I though I'd take a minute to drop in my three cents worth on all the raging controversies (not two cents because some of the threads are old, and inflation has set in :) The magic hop is a wondrous thing for freestyle- I know because I started doing it as a matter of course to make my stalling drills easier, without realizing it was a "fundamental." Steve- Kudos to you for trying to keep the "email virus" thing from going out- those messages are indeed useless. Anyone who wants official virus info, look to CERT advisories at CMU. Anything "new virus" warning that isn't forwarded from CERT or a hardware manufacturer is almost certainly BS. Congrats to all the new BAP members! Catch up to you boys in a decade or so... On to the move questions: Is there such a thing as a paradox swirl? In a session, I executed the following: toe set > same swirl. No spinning or nothing, just a right toe set to a right swirl stall, and a knowledgeable someone said, "Wow, a paradox swirl." Now, true, the setting foot does execute the dex, and true, the final contact is cross body (forget what-all else defines paradox), but the move just isn't really much damned harder than any other swirl. No hip-pivot. What's the deal? Ducking/diving eclipses kick ass! If I could, I'd try setting diving moves with an eclipse, but I can't, so I don't. Does anyone do this on a regular basis? What would you set into? Well, I start driving out to sunny Oregon tomorrow- Hope to see all you Bay Area folks real soon now. And finally your entertaining story of the day- I was out in the park in Springfield IL today trying to drill mirages when a middle-aged lady walking about eight dogs stopped to ask me what on God's green Earth I was jumping around for. Well, I was huffing and sweating pretty good (I'll quit smoking tomorrow) and before she left, she told me I ought to go on tv with footbags and charge 89.95 for "the most scientifically advanced piece of aerobic exercise equipment money can buy." heh... Nick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Nick Hall | nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu | http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/nhall | | National Center for Supercomputing App's | University of Illinois | | "You'll hear a lot of people talking about individual freedom- But | | when they see a free individual, boy, they get scared" -Easy Rider | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 5 14:24:46 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA09004 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:23:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA09000 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:23:50 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8997) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA08995 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:23:50 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F12.hotmail.com [207.82.250.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA12224 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:23:59 -0700 Received: (qmail 21696 invoked by uid 0); 5 Sep 1997 14:23:58 -0000 Message-ID: <19970905142358.21695.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 199.183.41.234 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 05 Sep 1997 07:23:57 PDT X-Originating-IP: [199.183.41.234] From: "Josh Penney" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] What's new? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 07:23:57 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >What's the deal? The deal is that it would need to be from a cross body set, which would mean that you couldn't do it withou t spinning, which isn't paradox. Just call it 'cross body swirl'. >(I'll quit smoking tomorrow) And monkeys might fly out my butt. and before she left, she told me I ought to >go on tv with footbags and charge 89.95 for "the most scientifically >advanced piece of aerobic exercise equipment money can buy." heh... There's a good idea. JP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 5 15:52:44 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00567 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:50:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00563 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:50:54 GMT Received: from proshred@ix.netcom.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (560) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00558 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:50:54 GMT Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA13237 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:50:54 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA17470 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:50:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sjx-ca51-10.ix.netcom.com(206.214.103.170) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma017460; Fri Sep 5 10:50:30 1997 Message-ID: <340ED9DD.44D1@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:55:10 -0700 From: Mike Niday Reply-To: proshred@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] worlds results :( References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Matt Hillebrand wrote: > > That makes me feel real great that I got LAST place in intermediate > freestyle. Even the guy who just kicked it really damn high over and >over and over beat me?!!? And people wonder why I don't compete... Mighty proshred@ix.netcom.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 5 19:34:55 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02555 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:34:51 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02551 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:34:49 GMT From: swingert@creighton.edu Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2548) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02546 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:34:44 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16204 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:34:46 -0700 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA237988085; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:34:45 -0500 Received: from localhost by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA051628084; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:34:44 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:34:44 -0500 (CDT) To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Has anyone ever tried ducking double leg over? How many adds? Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 5 19:56:27 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02725 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:56:26 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02721 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:56:24 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2718) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02714 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:56:23 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA16458 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:56:25 -0700 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ua057610 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:05:27 -0500 Subject: [freestyle] Re: Message-Id: <000000295962956334320@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 14:58:40 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.5 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, Sep 5, 1997, 2:34:44 PM US CST swingert@creighton.edu wrote: >Has anyone ever tried ducking double leg over? How many adds? Wouldn't that actually be the same thing as a paradox double legover, except that you are also ducking under a very high set? But don't most people think a dive is sort of like a 'paradox duck'? If a paraducks quacks, what should you do? -- Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 5 20:33:46 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03080 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:33:41 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03076 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:33:40 GMT Received: from joshb@emair.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3073) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA03071 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:33:39 GMT Received: from emair.com ([207.53.162.234]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA17136 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 13:33:41 -0700 Received: from Empire-Message_Server by emair.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 05 Sep 1997 13:42:57 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 13:35:25 -0700 From: Josh Bright To: freestyle@footbag.org, dfogle@mlerf.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org How would you go about doing a ducking double leg over, I can do normal ones, but I don't see where you would stick in the ducking part. Joshb >>> Derrick Fogle, MLERF 09/05/97 12:58PM >>> On Fri, Sep 5, 1997, 2:34:44 PM US CST swingert@creighton.edu wrote: >Has anyone ever tried ducking double leg over? How many adds? Wouldn't that actually be the same thing as a paradox double legover, except that you are also ducking under a very high set? But don't most people think a dive is sort of like a 'paradox duck'? If a paraducks quacks, what should you do? -- Derrick ! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 5 22:00:21 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03751 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 22:00:15 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03747 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 22:00:12 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3744) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03742 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 22:00:11 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA18688 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:00:14 -0700 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA23846; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:00:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Verhoef Anne To: Josh Bright cc: freestyle@footbag.org, dfogle@mlerf.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Josh Bright wrote: > How would you go about doing a ducking double leg over, I can do normal ones, but I don't see where you would stick in the ducking part. clip>(duck)> same in out dex> op out in dex> same toe I believe this is a ducking paradox double legover. You could also do ducking same side double legover. (Instead of using your clipper leg to do the first dex, use the opposite leg. This would delete the paradox add. Sean wrote: > >Has anyone ever tried ducking double leg over? How many adds? Depends if you do it paradox or not. If it's paradox, it's 5 adds; if it's not, 4 adds. Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 6 07:34:54 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA07351 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 07:34:35 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA07347 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 07:34:33 GMT From: swingert@creighton.edu Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7344) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA07342 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 07:34:33 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA23501 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 00:34:40 -0700 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA194761279; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:34:39 -0500 Received: from localhost by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA201691278; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:34:38 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:34:38 -0500 (CDT) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Ducking and Paradox Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Doesn't ducking imply paradox just like blurry implies paradox? If so, does that mean that ducking is worth 2 adds? Or does ducking just mean an infinity set which sometimes is paradox? Examples: Ducking double leg over --> ducking paradox 2x leg over Ducking whirl --> ducking paradox whirl Ducking butterfly --> ducking infinity-set butterfly (not pdx) Ducking double down --> ducking infinity-set 2x dwn (barfly) Thoughts? Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 8 15:59:42 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00671 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:56:17 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00667 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:56:15 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (664) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00662 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:56:14 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA19170 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:56:15 -0700 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id na058539 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:14:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Ducking and Paradox Message-Id: <000000297792956572477@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:07:57 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.5 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sat, Sep 6, 1997, 2:34:38 AM US CST swingert@creighton.edu wrote: >Doesn't ducking imply paradox just like blurry implies paradox? Ducking means ducking. It is a body move, more closely related to a spin probably than a paradox; you might want to think of it as a body dexterity. But it is a very isolate-able move that doesn't imply the presence of any other add elements. Some people consider 'diving' to be a paradox duck, but I think thats bovinefeces. -- Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 8 16:46:14 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA01124 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:46:14 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA01120 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:46:11 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1117) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA01115 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:46:11 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F93.hotmail.com [207.82.250.199]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA20033 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:46:12 -0700 Received: (qmail 15391 invoked by uid 0); 8 Sep 1997 16:46:11 -0000 Message-ID: <19970908164611.15388.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:46:11 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.172] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Ducking and Paradox Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:46:11 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Ducking means ducking. It is a body move, more closely related to a spin probably than a paradox; you might want to think of it as a body dexterity. But it is a very isolate-able move that doesn't imply the presence of any other add elements. Some people consider 'diving' to be a paradox duck, but I think thats bovinefeces. > > > -- Derrick A chicken-man shouldn't be discussing ducks. That's fowl! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 11 21:21:51 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA04065 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:21:47 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA04061 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:21:45 GMT Received: from nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4058) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA04056 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:21:45 GMT Received: from ncsa.uiuc.edu (sdgmail.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.103.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22772 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:21:46 -0700 Received: from void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (void [141.142.103.20]) by ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA09465 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:22:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nhall@localhost) by void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id QAA24657; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:25:13 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:25:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Nicholas Hall To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Portland Area info Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi there- I was just wondering if anyone could give me a list of complete contact info for the Sole Purpose club out in Portland- i.e. where and when all the kicks are. For some reason that info isn't on the footbag.org club page, and I don't want to call Kenny for directions every night for the next two weeks... I went out to Reed College last night for the scheduled kick but was disappointed to find no footbaggers there. I hear they are kicking on the waterfront today, but I don't know when... Anyone with info please respond post haste! Nick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Nick Hall | nhall@ncsa.uiuc.edu | http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/nhall | | National Center for Supercomputing App's | University of Illinois | | "You'll hear a lot of people talking about individual freedom- But | | when they see a free individual, boy, they get scared" -Easy Rider | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 11 21:35:59 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA04199 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:35:58 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA04195 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:35:57 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4192) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA04190 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:35:57 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.196] (brat_196.bayarea.net [205.219.91.196]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23980; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:35:52 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:36:28 -0700 To: Nicholas Hall From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Portland Area info Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:25 PM -0700 9/11/97, Nicholas Hall wrote: >For some reason that info isn't on the >footbag.org club page, What exactly do you mean? There is a phone number for the contact (Kendall KIC) and under "reular kicks" it says twice a week at Sellwood Middle School. It specifically requests that you call them for updated information. Their phone, 503-236-0939 is essentially their club hotline. If they didn't want you to call them, they wouldn't publish the info. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 13 17:03:29 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00949 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:02:48 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00940 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:02:44 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (933) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00930 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:02:43 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F91.hotmail.com [207.82.250.197]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA26215 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:02:44 -0700 Received: (qmail 9481 invoked by uid 0); 13 Sep 1997 17:02:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19970913170244.9480.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.196.104.114 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:02:43 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.196.104.114] From: "Josh Penney" To: footbag@footbag.org Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Certainty of publicity Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:02:43 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello. On sunday, September 28th there will be a film crew from MTV Europe coming to my local shred to do a spot about footbag, and footbaggers in the east. So If any of ya want to be in on it, come on down. Since we have no place tor players to showcase net, I would like to request donations of video footage to donate for addition/example. I have a copy of the 1996 Worlds' promo; does anyone know who was responsible for that, incl. legal copywright and other info? All replies not copied to the list will be kept in strict confidence. Thanks to all. Mack it before you crack it, JP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 13 17:05:34 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00995 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:05:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00985 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:05:30 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (982) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00980 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:05:30 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F71.hotmail.com [207.82.250.157]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA26263 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:05:31 -0700 Received: (qmail 16980 invoked by uid 0); 13 Sep 1997 17:05:31 -0000 Message-ID: <19970913170531.16979.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.196.104.114 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:05:30 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.196.104.114] From: "Josh Penney" To: footbag@footbag.org Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Certainty of publicity Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:05:30 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello. On sunday, September 28th there will be a film crew from MTV Europe coming to my local shred to do a spot about footbag, and footbaggers in the east. So If any of ya want to be in on it, come on down. Since we have no place tor players to showcase net, I would like to request donations of video footage to donate for addition/example. I have a copy of the 1996 Worlds' promo; does anyone know who was responsible for that, incl. legal copywright and other info? All replies not copied to the list will be kept in strict confidence. Thanks to all. Mack it before you crack it, JP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 15 06:15:37 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA04541 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 06:15:12 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA04537 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 06:15:10 GMT Received: from s9709652@jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4534) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA04532 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 06:15:04 GMT Received: from rmit.EDU.AU (voga.rmit.EDU.AU [131.170.1.20]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19673 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:14:59 -0700 Received: from jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au (jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.EDU.AU [131.170.36.250]) by rmit.EDU.AU (8.8.7/8.7.3/voga/ram3/anti-SPAM) with ESMTP id QAA11008 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:14:57 +1000 (EST) Received: from POISSON/SpoolDir by jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 15 Sep 97 16:16:50 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by POISSON (Mercury 1.21); 15 Sep 97 16:16:45 +1100 From: "LYNTON STEPHENS" Organization: Civil & Geological Engineering RMIT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:16:41 EST-10 Subject: [freestyle] swirling X-Confirm-Reading-To: "LYNTON STEPHENS" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-ID: <2087B966F7A@jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was just wondering: There are plenty of moves involving swirl style dexterities e.g. swirl, whirling swirl, spyro gyro, ripstein, barfly swirl, etc But as far as I know the swirl dex in each of these is done from back to front coming over the to of the bag. Are there any move where the swirl is done the other direction, i.e. from front to back over the top of the bag? Any thoughts? Lynton From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 15 07:06:40 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA04722 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:06:39 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA04716 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:06:35 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4712) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA04704; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:06:27 GMT Received: from baygate.bayarea.net (baygate.bayarea.net [204.71.212.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20517; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 00:06:34 -0700 Received: from [205.219.91.196] (brat_196.bayarea.net [205.219.91.196]) by baygate.bayarea.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA29908; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 00:08:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 00:06:46 -0700 To: Joe Norman , Michael Hailey , Ben Gallant , Matt Stone , Wing-See Lai , Devon Joshi , Emily Robinson , Becky Shaftel , Zander Nosler , Mike Niday , Jeff Gran , Tu Vu , Tuan Vu and Lisa Monti , Ryan Mulroney , Sunil Jani , Kevin Fine , Iain McKechnie , southbay@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Stanford Footbag Club Fall Freestyle JAM! Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org You're invited to kick with the Stanford Footbag Club at the first day back at school at Stanford University (Palo Alto, California) on TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23rd, 1997, from 11am to 6pm!!! (That's a week from this Tuesday.) This will be the first day back at school, and Stanford is hosting an Activities Day at a big outdoor party called "Music and Fun Under the Sun" (MuFuUnSun for short)! This is typically our best chance to recruit new club members for the upcoming year -- I already have several top freestylers planning to come and make special appearances at this event. We (the Stanford Footbag Club) will have a spot reserved at the event to sign up new club members and to demonstrate and play freestyle footbag. There may even be room for nets for those of you interested, but I have to scope out the site before I can say for sure. MuFuUnSun is *not* at our usual kicking spot in White Plaza -- it's at Arrillaga Court (between Arrillaga, Maples, and DeGuerre Pool, and at Chuck Taylor Field) on the Stanford University Campus. E-mail me for directions ('cause I don't have them right this second), or check out the map online at http://www.stanford.edu/ Note: MuFuUnSun ends at 4pm, at which point we will likely move to White Plaza. So if you're planning to show up after 4, check both spots. White Plaza is in front of the Stanford Post Office near Tresidder Student Union on the campus. Hope to see you there! Steve P.S. Invite all your friends and any kicker in the area you know who doesn't have e-mail or who didn't get this invitation. The more, the merrier! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 15 14:22:31 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA06865 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:22:14 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA06861 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:22:11 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6858) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA06856 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:22:10 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F6.hotmail.com [207.82.250.17]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA24602 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:22:20 -0700 Received: (qmail 18466 invoked by uid 0); 15 Sep 1997 14:22:19 -0000 Message-ID: <19970915142219.18465.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:22:19 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.172] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] swirling Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:22:19 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >I was just wondering: > >There are plenty of moves involving swirl style dexterities >e.g. swirl, whirling swirl, spyro gyro, ripstein, barfly swirl, etc > >But as far as I know the swirl dex in each of these is done from back >to front coming over the to of the bag. >Are there any move where the swirl is done the other direction, i.e. >from front to back over the top of the bag? > >Any thoughts? > >Lynton Hmmm, let's see...(1)any of the moves you mentioned can be performed with a reverse swirl however I have not witnessed any of them (2)twirl - reverse swirling osis is Scott Davidson's bread and butter (3)reverse swirling dragon stall (4)and of course reverse swirling whirling swirling double-whirling swirl DK ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 16 00:27:04 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA05029 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:26:31 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA05025 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:26:30 GMT Received: from adriand@callplus.co.nz () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5022) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA05020 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:26:29 GMT Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (mail.callplus.co.nz [203.98.15.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06024 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:26:31 -0700 Received: by mail.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:26:50 +1200 Message-ID: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C03E08A@mail.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Footbag Moves list Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:26:48 +1200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey shredders, At the moment I am going through the process of updating my online footbag moves database. I need to add in some of these next generation moves like "The Fog" and "Blurrage". So if you have time send me an Email describing how to do the move and its name, and I will add it to the all new list :) The new location of the freestyle move list (over 200 moves) is: http://www.callplus.co.nz/footbag/ see you there! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 16 00:30:22 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA05063 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:30:21 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA05059 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:30:21 GMT Received: from adriand@callplus.co.nz () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5056) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA05054 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:30:20 GMT Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (mail.callplus.co.nz [203.98.15.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06079 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:30:23 -0700 Received: by mail.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:30:47 +1200 Message-ID: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C03E08B@mail.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] New Freestyle records Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:30:45 +1200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Saturday Damian Coventry of the AFFC hit 5 consecutive Double switches. (Toe > OP out [dex] > same out [dex] > same toe [del]) Also I hit 16 consecutive symposium mirages using the left foot straight to right foot technique. Later! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 16 21:21:02 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02626 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:16:03 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02622 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:16:01 GMT Received: from tuhuge@sfsu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2619) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02617 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:16:00 GMT Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22297 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:16:01 -0700 Received: from station10.sfsu.edu (24hrlab-210.sfsu.edu [130.212.37.210]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA04935; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:15:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970916141207.00691aa8@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:12:07 -0700 To: Adrian Dick From: Tu Vu Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Freestyle records Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C03E08B@mail.callplus.co.nz > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:30 PM 9/16/97 +1200, you wrote: >On Saturday Damian Coventry of the AFFC hit 5 consecutive Double >switches. >(Toe > OP out [dex] > same out [dex] > same toe [del]) > >Also I hit 16 consecutive symposium mirages using the left foot straight >to right foot technique. > >Later! I think Tuan Vu, Eric Wulff, and a few others both have consecutive mirage records in the 20's and 30's. Although , 16 symp. mirages is truly incredible!!!! I wish I could do 2 in a row!! I never heard of anyone doing that many consecutive double switch overs. Nice Work!!!! 2 huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 19 22:03:06 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA04571 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:02:03 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA04566 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:02:00 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4563) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA04561 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:01:59 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F16.hotmail.com [207.82.250.27]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA23281 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:02:02 -0700 Received: (qmail 13013 invoked by uid 0); 19 Sep 1997 22:02:01 -0000 Message-ID: <19970919220201.13012.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:02:01 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.172] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] offseason woes Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:02:01 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org How are you kickers in cold-weather states planning on keeping in shape during the offseason? DK ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 20 02:07:15 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA06026 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 02:07:03 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA06022 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 02:07:00 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6019) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA06017 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 02:06:54 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.196] (brat_196.bayarea.net [205.219.91.196]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28642; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:06:57 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970919220201.13012.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:07:29 -0700 To: "Daniel Kramer" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] offseason woes Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 3:02 PM -0700 9/19/97, Daniel Kramer wrote: >How are you kickers in cold-weather states planning on keeping >in shape during the offseason? Okay, I know you're going to yell at me 'cause I'm not in a cold-weather state (yeehaa!), but the short version is -- KICK INSIDE! Don't let the weather stop you from playing. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 20 14:23:02 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA09034 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:22:50 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA09030 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:22:48 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9027) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA09025 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:22:48 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F40.hotmail.com [207.82.250.51]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA02172 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 07:22:58 -0700 Received: (qmail 5164 invoked by uid 0); 20 Sep 1997 14:22:56 -0000 Message-ID: <19970920142256.5163.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.214.136.81 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 07:22:55 PDT X-Originating-IP: [206.214.136.81] From: "Josh Penney" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] offseason woes Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 07:22:55 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:07:29 -0700 >At 3:02 PM -0700 9/19/97, Daniel Kramer wrote: >>How are you kickers in cold-weather states planning on keeping >>in shape during the offseason? > >Okay, I know you're going to yell at me 'cause I'm not in a cold-weather >state (yeehaa!), but the short version is -- KICK INSIDE! Don't let the >weather stop you from playing. > I think that Dan was looking for a new thread, Steve. The other thing is, maybe I think that because he and I are working on the same problem - finding a place to play during the colder months. Dan has been using stariwells and late-night laundry room skools, and I'm not sure yet what I'm gonna do. Space is not really available here as many of you know unless, you're willing to peel off them dollar bills (slappin' em down); and we all know how filthy rich we are, right? So here's a question: Who has a free place to play indoors, how did you get it, how do we get one, etc. etc. etc. JP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 20 15:54:42 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00495 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:53:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00491 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:53:54 GMT Received: from footbag13@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (488) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00486 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:53:53 GMT From: Footbag13@aol.com Received: from emin17.mail.aol.com (emout32.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03254 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 08:53:54 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by emin17.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id LAA26098 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:53:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:53:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970920114547_-1264431828@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] offseason woes Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 97-09-20 00:29:30 EDT, Daniel Kramer writes: << How are you kickers in cold-weather states planning on keeping in shape during the offseason? >> A few suggestions for free or reasonably priced places to kick... Community college-most of them have some kind of open gym for community members YMCA Indoor parking garages Shopping malls Your place of work-some people are allowed to stay late and lock up when they leave... Park district or community centers Kitchen, living room, etc..... It gets damn cold in illinois and it becomes a real challenge to find a place to shred...especially when you've got a group of people kicking. My best advice...kick where ever you can and when you get kicked out...kick somewhere else! Jason From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 20 16:42:21 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00705 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:42:20 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00701 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:42:18 GMT Received: from mstrong@ix.netcom.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (698) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00696 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:42:17 GMT Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA04196 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:42:19 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA03344 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:42:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709201642.LAA03344@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> Received: from dal-tx9-38.ix.netcom.com(207.94.123.166) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma003249; Sat Sep 20 11:41:45 1997 From: "Matt Strong" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] offseason woes Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:42:03 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org During rainy days, we've been kicking in apartment fitness centers. Of course this will only help if someone in your group lives in an apartment and that apartment has a nice fitness center, but for us it works great. We can't really play net, but here in Texas there are occasionally some weekends in the winter that are warm enough to play net. -Matt ---------- > From: Footbag13@aol.com > To: freestyle@footbag.org > Subject: Re: [freestyle] offseason woes > Date: Saturday, September 20, 1997 10:53 AM > > In a message dated 97-09-20 00:29:30 EDT, Daniel Kramer writes: > > << How are you kickers in cold-weather states planning on keeping > in shape during the offseason? >> > > A few suggestions for free or reasonably priced places to kick... > > Community college-most of them have some kind of open gym for community > members > YMCA > Indoor parking garages > Shopping malls > Your place of work-some people are allowed to stay late and lock up when they > leave... > Park district or community centers > Kitchen, living room, etc..... > > It gets damn cold in illinois and it becomes a real challenge to find a place > to shred...especially when you've got a group of people kicking. My best > advice...kick where ever you can and when you get kicked out...kick somewhere > else! > Jason From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 22 01:06:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA02939 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:05:41 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA02934 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:05:38 GMT Received: from adriand@callplus.co.nz () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2931) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA02929 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:05:34 GMT Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (mail.callplus.co.nz [203.98.15.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17352; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 18:05:31 -0700 Received: by mail.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:48:57 +1200 Message-ID: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C043A2B@mail.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: Steve Goldberg Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] offseason woes Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:48:56 +1200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I think the best solution of all is to come to New Zealand during your winter and shred with us! > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Goldberg [SMTP:brat@footbag.org] > Sent: Saturday, 20 September 1997 14:07 > To: Daniel Kramer > Cc: freestyle@footbag.org > Subject: Re: [freestyle] offseason woes > > At 3:02 PM -0700 9/19/97, Daniel Kramer wrote: > >How are you kickers in cold-weather states planning on keeping > >in shape during the offseason? > > Okay, I know you're going to yell at me 'cause I'm not in a > cold-weather > state (yeehaa!), but the short version is -- KICK INSIDE! Don't let > the > weather stop you from playing. > > Steve > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 22 05:54:38 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA04259 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 05:54:35 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA04255 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 05:54:33 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4252) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA04250 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 05:54:33 GMT Received: from stick.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA21924 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:54:39 -0700 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA23540 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:54:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:54:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] footbag channel on undernet Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey guys...i work at night (11pm-8am central) and i usually hang out on IRC (undernet) while i'm here. if anyone wants to drop by and talk about the world's most perfect sport, i'll be in the channel #footbag. happy shredding! eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 22 06:45:39 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA04500 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 06:45:38 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA04489 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 06:45:36 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4486) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA04484; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 06:45:36 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.196] (brat_196.bayarea.net [205.219.91.196]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA22749; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:44:56 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:45:38 -0700 To: Joe Norman , Michael Hailey , Ben Gallant , Matt Stone , Wing-See Lai , Devon Joshi , Emily Robinson , Becky Shaftel , Zander Nosler , Mike Niday , Jeff Gran , Tu Vu , Tuan Vu and Lisa Monti , Ryan Mulroney , Sunil Jani , Iain McKechnie , southbay@footbag.org, kenny@valuserve.com From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Stanford Fall Freestyle jam this Tuesday Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org REMINDER! (New DIRECTIONS at end!) You're invited to kick with the Stanford Footbag Club at the first day back at school at Stanford University (Palo Alto, California) THIS TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23rd, 1997, *any time* from 11am to 6pm!!! Let's show Chelsea Clinton what she really ought to do with her spare time! On Tuesday, Stanford is hosting an Activities Day at a big outdoor party called "Music and Fun Under the Sun" (MuFuUnSun for short)! This is typically our best chance to recruit new club members for the upcoming year. We (the Stanford Footbag Club) will have a spot reserved at the event to sign up new club members and to demonstrate and play freestyle footbag. There WILL be room for a net for those of you interested! MuFuUnSun is *not* at our usual kicking spot in White Plaza -- it's at Arrillaga Court (between Arrillaga, Maples, and DeGuerre Pool, and at Chuck Taylor Field) on the Stanford University Campus. Directions are below, or check out the map online at: Note: MuFuUnSun ends at 4pm, at which point we will move to White Plaza for the remainder of the kick. So if you're planning to show up after 4, check both spots. White Plaza is in front of the Stanford Post Office near Tresidder Student Union on the campus. Hope to see you there! Steve DIRECTIONS: (a) MuFuUnSun @ Arrillaga Court: between Arrillaga Sports Complex and Maples Pavilion, just along Campus Drive East between Galvez (Embarcadero) and Serra streets. If you're coming from El Camino, enter on Galvez St. (which is Embarcadero on the other side of El Camino), pass the stadium, and turn LEFT onto Campus Drive. Pay parking (free after 4pm) is available in the lot between Maples Pavilion and Serra St. (so if you're coming from Galvez, turn LEFT on Campus and LEFT again into the lot just past Maples). We'll be somewhere in the area of Arrillaga Court between 11am and 4pm. (b) White Plaza: our usual kicking spot. We'll be there from 4-6 this Tuesday, (normally we're there Tuesdays from 2:30 or 3 until dark). White Plaza is right out in front of the main campus Post Office, across from Tresidder Union and next to Dinkelspiel Auditorium. If you're driving, park in the pay lot (free after 4) for Tresidder Union, which is just off Mayfield. For more specific directions, e-mail or call me (408-773-9110). From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 22 13:17:27 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA06047 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:17:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA06043 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:17:06 GMT Received: from crvich@raleigh.ibm.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6040) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA06038 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:17:04 GMT Received: from fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns1d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.235]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA30447 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 06:17:13 -0700 Received: from rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.47]) by fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7RTP-FW1.1) with ESMTP id JAA19406 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:17:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (ode1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.178.164]) by rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id JAA16710 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:17:12 -0400 Received: from odent1.raleigh.ibm.com by ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA31184; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:17:08 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970922091532.00900940@ode1> X-Sender: crvich@ode1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:15:32 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] offseason woes In-Reply-To: <19970919220201.13012.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >How are you kickers in cold-weather states planning on keeping >in shape during the offseason? When I used to live in a tiny crappy apartment in Virginia, I practiced in my living room. But that was when I was just beginning to learn freestyle, so I didn't sweat as much (now I get complaints from people within a ten foot radius to "turn off the sweat shower, ya lousy bum!"). So practicing in my [new & improved] apartment is right out. The colleges where I used to live (Virginia Tech & Radford U.) didn't allow non-university types in their gyms (not an uncommon practice), so I actually had little choice. The local "community center" had a small gym, but it was always reserved for basketball or volleyball. Besides, is it just me or are basketball courts way too slippery for freestyle?! Blech! So aside from a friend's apartment complex (which has an enclosed racquetball court), I found an area in Duke U's student center here in Durham. It's off in a corner on the bottom floor, very few people ever walk by, it's carpeted (yes!), and no one has ever asked me to leave (despite the fact that I don't wear a shirt and I sweat like a...like a freestyler!). In retrospect, I think there were similar places in VTech's & Radford's student centers, but I wasn't as bold back then. I'm still not willing to try a mall, though...at least not for serious practice. 8-) I've practiced in a couple of laundromats in the past, too, but wouldn't recommend them. -- Ernest M. Crvich Durham, NC, USA http://www.mindspring.com/~ecrvich Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 22 15:03:34 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00208 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:02:03 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00204 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:02:00 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (201) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00199 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:01:59 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F20.hotmail.com [207.82.250.31]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA00154 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:01:59 -0700 Received: (qmail 19373 invoked by uid 0); 22 Sep 1997 15:01:58 -0000 Message-ID: <19970922150158.19372.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:01:58 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.172] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] offseason woes Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:01:58 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'd like to thank everyone for their great suggestions and anecdotes. And Steve - for the kick inside comment, I'd like to wish you a big fat duh. Make that a duy-hickey :>) Where there's a will, there's a way. DK ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 22 18:52:21 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01742 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:52:03 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01738 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:52:02 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1735) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01733 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:52:01 GMT Received: from f44.hotmail.com (F44.hotmail.com [207.82.250.55]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA05900 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:52:00 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by f44.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA18987 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709221852.LAA18987@f44.hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:52:00 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.172] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] I'm chillin' Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:52:00 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >I live in north Idaho, and the winter months are horrible, just keep on kickin indoors. > >Josh Bright Maybe I should start acclimating myself to the cold weather now. Next time I kick, I'll stick ice cubes up my ass. DK ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 22 20:25:31 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03043 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:25:30 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03039 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:25:28 GMT Received: from hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3036) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA03034 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:25:28 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08186 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:25:30 -0700 Received: from skull.cs.uidaho.edu (hill9361@skull.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.108]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.8.5/1.1) with ESMTP id NAA25031 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by skull.cs.uidaho.edu (8.8.5/1.0) with SMTP id NAA25345 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:25:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: skull.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:25:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Hillebrand To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Josh Bright? In-Reply-To: <199709221852.LAA18987@f44.hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > >I live in north Idaho, and the winter months are horrible, just keep on > kickin indoors. > > > >Josh Bright Josh Bright, I can't remember if I have talked to you before or not. I couldn't find you at footbag.org, nor could I find your email address. I live in Moscow, Idaho (which I consider north Idaho), so let's get together sometime. There are loads of decent freestylers in Moscow. ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 22 23:13:31 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA05316 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:13:29 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA05304 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:13:25 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5301) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA05299; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:13:23 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.196] (brat_196.bayarea.net [205.219.91.196]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA11228; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:12:59 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:13:37 -0700 To: Joe Norman , Michael Hailey , Ben Gallant , Matt Stone , Wing-See Lai , Devon Joshi , Emily Robinson , Becky Shaftel , Zander Nosler , Mike Niday , Jeff Gran , Tu Vu , Tuan Vu and Lisa Monti , Ryan Mulroney , Sunil Jani , Iain McKechnie , southbay@footbag.org, kenny@valuserve.com From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Stanford Festival Tuesday starts 1pm! Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org UPDATE: the MuFuUnSun festival at Stanford actually starts at 1pm, not 11am as I'd originally announced! Sorry about that, but the information I had was out of date. I just called to confirm, and the start time is *1pm*. The location is the same as before. Thanks, and sorry to bug those of you who can't make it. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 22 23:45:23 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA05540 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:45:21 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA05536 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:45:17 GMT From: swingert@creighton.edu Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5533) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA05531 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:45:11 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA11809 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:44:55 -0700 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA167591884; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:44:44 -0500 Received: from localhost by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA202681880; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:44:40 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:44:40 -0500 (CDT) To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Daydreaming Moves... Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Stuck in my atmospheric sciences class--and, therefore, bored--I was daydreaming of the following moves. Has anyone hit any of them? 1) Leg beating swirl 2) Flurry bail to opposite toe 3) Symposium double toe blur (ouch) 4) ducking p.s. whirl (the only one of the bunch I can hit) Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 23 00:20:02 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA05980 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:19:53 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA05976 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:19:51 GMT Received: from j1876@tir.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5973) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA05971 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:19:51 GMT Received: from sun.tir.com (sun.tir.com [205.138.41.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12693 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:19:54 -0700 Received: from an194.tir.com (an194.tir.com [205.218.86.4]) by sun.tir.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA11457 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709230019.UAA11457@sun.tir.com> X-Sender: j1876@mail.tir.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org From: j1876@tir.com (clarkja1) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i am sorry, but this was meant for the list serve and not for one particular individual. so thanks to steve if he would post this in the right area. thanks steve. my shift key is broken, so excuse the lack of caps. go to an elementary school in your area, tell them that you live in the area and your conditions, i.e., you are a competitor with a footbag, explain briefly the games and the sport, lack of good practice facility, etc. then you mention you might be willing to do some kind of demo for them , free of course in the spring when it is warmer. talk to the community education director, or a reasonable facsimile, not the principal, you can also work your way up to the middle and high school's, but from my experience they are more tied up with activities. the main thing is to feel your way through this process. this is from having done this for 20 plus years. then you can try the other avenues, of course this is up to you. in any case, when you walk in and plead a case for yourself, people are more sympathetic than if you just come in, kick until caught and try the pleading. jayman Jayman :-} From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 23 16:53:33 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA01069 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:51:28 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA01065 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:51:26 GMT Received: from aloe@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1062) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA01060 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:51:26 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA31610 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:51:26 -0700 Received: (from aloe@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA12503; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:51:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Juliet Pendray Reply-To: Juliet Pendray Subject: [freestyle] offseason woes To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If you're into performing, usually community centre & neighbourhood house program director types are always looking for something new to bring in to entertain their group of children/youth, that won't cost them. Make a trade for some regular kicking time in one of their spaces. juliet From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 23 18:10:20 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01735 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:09:54 GMT Received: from rtroxel@ops.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1564) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01554 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:57:27 GMT Received: from redgate.ops.org (redgate.ops.org [204.26.70.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA01084 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:57:27 -0700 Received: by redgate.ops.org; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA32550; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:00:14 -0500 Received: from localhost by ops.org; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Jul97-0529PM) id AA29993; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:02:40 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:02:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Ryan Troxel To: Juliet Pendray Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] offseason woes In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Another good place for an indoor jam is a racquetball court. It is usually not as crowded as a basketball court and you don't have to worry about basketballs, people or small children running in the middle of your circle. We have even constructed a footbag net that uses the walleyball eyelets to play net in a slightly smaller than normal area. rye From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 23 18:36:34 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01887 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:36:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01883 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:36:31 GMT Received: from tuhuge@sfsu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1880) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01878 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:36:31 GMT Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02082 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:36:32 -0700 Received: from station34.sfsu.edu (24hrlab-234.sfsu.edu [130.212.37.234]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA27893; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970923113154.006968f8@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:31:54 -0700 To: swingert@creighton.edu From: TU VU Subject: Re: [freestyle] Daydreaming Moves... Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 06:44 PM 9/22/97 -0500, you wrote: >Stuck in my atmospheric sciences class--and, therefore, bored--I was >daydreaming of the following moves. Has anyone hit any of them? > > 1) Leg beating swirl > 2) Flurry bail to opposite toe > 3) Symposium double toe blur (ouch) > 4) ducking p.s. whirl (the only one of the bunch I can hit) > I've hit the flurry bail to toe but have never sealed it. It's called fission and it's the barraging paradox reverse mirage. Another cool one is barraging paradox mirage. I haven't come up for a name for it yet. any suggestions? 2 Huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 23 19:07:57 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02054 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:07:55 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02050 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:07:52 GMT Received: from hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2047) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02045 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:07:50 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02835 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:07:51 -0700 Received: from crater.cs.uidaho.edu (hill9361@crater.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.110]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.8.5/1.1) with ESMTP id MAA26096; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by crater.cs.uidaho.edu (8.8.5/1.0) with SMTP id MAA23311; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:07:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: crater.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:07:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Hillebrand To: TU VU cc: swingert@creighton.edu, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Daydreaming Moves... In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970923113154.006968f8@sfsu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If the last leg over is out-in (reverse mirage), then how can it be paradox? Would't the leg over have to be in-out to get the paradox component? > I've hit the flurry bail to toe but have never sealed it. > > It's called fission and it's the barraging paradox reverse mirage. > > Another cool one is barraging paradox mirage. > > I haven't come up for a name for it yet. any suggestions? > > > 2 Huge > > ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 23 19:14:29 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02122 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:14:25 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02118 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:14:23 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2115) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02113 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:14:22 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.196] (brat_196.bayarea.net [205.219.91.196]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03054; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:14:16 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.2.32.19970923113154.006968f8@sfsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:14:50 -0700 To: Matt Hillebrand From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Daydreaming Moves... Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:07 PM -0700 9/23/97, Matt Hillebrand wrote: >If the last leg over is out-in (reverse mirage), then how can it be >paradox? Would't the leg over have to be in-out to get the paradox >component? Matt, I don't know where you got that idea from. As has been stated here a zillion times, the definition of paradox (albeit complex and sometimes disputed) is not limited to in-out dexterities. Few dispute the existence of "paradox reverse mirage". The issue is you can't end in a clipper on the opposite side if you do out-in (i.e., butterflies aren't paradox). I don't recall the exact wording, but it's in the definition Derrick sent out a while back. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 23 19:35:02 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02283 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:34:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02279 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:34:53 GMT From: swingert@creighton.edu Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2276) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02274 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:34:53 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03640 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:34:54 -0700 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA119813292; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:34:53 -0500 Received: from localhost by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA011973292; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:34:52 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:34:52 -0500 (CDT) To: Matt Hillebrand Cc: TU VU , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Daydreaming Moves... In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Matt Hillebrand wrote: > If the last leg over is out-in (reverse mirage), then how can it be > paradox? Would't the leg over have to be in-out to get the paradox > component? I think that you *would* get the paradox element because the whole move is "just" a paradox rev. mirage, BUT with two dexterities first. If you remove those two initial dexes, you just have a basic pdx. rv. mirage (emphasis on the pdx.). This, of course, assumes that you are setting the bag from a clipper. Thoughts? Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 23 21:10:19 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03046 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:10:06 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03040 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:09:51 GMT Received: from c655664@showme.missouri.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3037) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA03034 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:09:34 GMT Received: from mail.missouri.edu (mail.missouri.edu [128.206.2.169]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06073 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:09:34 -0700 Received: from sp2n09.missouri.edu (sp2n09.missouri.edu [128.206.2.17]) by mail.missouri.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA102224; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:09:26 -0500 Received: from localhost (c655664@localhost) by sp2n09.missouri.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA243000; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:07:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: sp2n09.missouri.edu: c655664 owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:07:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Marschall X-Sender: c655664@sp2n09.missouri.edu To: Ryan Troxel cc: Juliet Pendray , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] offseason woes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, I've always found raquetball courts to be too slippery for proper stylin'. I've been spoiled by carpet, the thin kind. I'm not sure if this is helpful or not, but here in Columbia Mo. we have buddied up with the owner of a rock-climbing gym. I pay a nominal annual fee in order to kick inside during the bad months. It works out for him too, because sometimes people come in just to watch us kick.! People involved with other smaller, sub-culture sports are often sympathetic towards our cause. Joe Marschall From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 24 14:19:23 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA09168 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:19:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA09164 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:19:06 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9161) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA09159 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:19:05 GMT Received: from f44.hotmail.com (F44.hotmail.com [207.82.250.55]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA23054 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:19:15 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by f44.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA29503 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:19:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709241419.HAA29503@f44.hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:19:14 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.172] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Daydreaming Moves... Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:19:14 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >> I've hit the flurry bail to toe but have never sealed it. >> >> It's called fission and it's the barraging paradox reverse mirage. >> >> Another cool one is barraging paradox mirage. >> >> I haven't come up for a name for it yet. any suggestions? >> >> >> 2 Huge Reverge ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 24 21:05:37 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02773 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:05:14 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02761 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:05:09 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2758) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02756 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:05:03 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30260 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:05:06 -0700 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA03198; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:04:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:04:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Verhoef Anne To: TU VU cc: swingert@creighton.edu, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Daydreaming Moves... In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970923113154.006968f8@sfsu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, TU VU wrote: > > 1) Leg beating swirl > > 2) Flurry bail to opposite toe > > 3) Symposium double toe blur (ouch) > > 4) ducking p.s. whirl (the only one of the bunch I can hit) What exactly do you mean by symp double toe blur? A miraging symposium backside double mirage?? Are you insane? > It's called fission and it's the barraging paradox reverse mirage. That sounds cool. I'd like to see a barraging butterfly. Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 24 21:21:29 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02949 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:21:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02945 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:21:21 GMT Received: from klein@proscape.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2942) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02940 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:21:21 GMT Received: from proxyserv.proscape.com (mail.proscape.com [205.147.246.8]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA30497 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:21:23 -0700 Received: by proxyserv.proscape.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BCC90D.E1525B40@proxyserv.proscape.com>; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:18:31 -0400 Message-ID: From: Ethan Klein To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Skooling Solo Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:18:18 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 17 TEXT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello fellow freestylers. I have entered into a new stage of my personal footbag evolution recently, that of a SOLO SHREDDER. I still kick with my boyz about once a week but spend the other 5 or 6 days playing alone. Usually I pick a few combos or tricks that I want to hit during a session and focus on hitting them... i.e the other day I just worked drifter into double leg over on both sides. I would try that combo, then try something else, then come back to that combo, etc. The sport assumes a different essence when playing solo. Every juggle becomes less of an all out explosion of capability and more a piece/trial/experiment. Less super-long guiltlessness, more weird, random combos and moves that should have been mastered long ago. I enjoy it immensely but was hoping to get some feedback from the community as to how you all shred solo. Drills, strait-up freestylin, computer-selected move combinations? Do people visualize crowds/girls/BAPers watching? See ya - Ethan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 24 21:33:46 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03011 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:33:40 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03007 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:33:40 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3004) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA03002 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:33:39 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F77.hotmail.com [207.82.250.183]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA30695 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:33:43 -0700 Received: (qmail 2525 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 1997 21:33:28 -0000 Message-ID: <19970924213328.2524.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:33:27 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.172] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] live music accompaniment Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:33:27 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Since Worlds, there hasn't been much heavy discussion on the list. I had been trying to come up with something juicy to offer, but nothing came to mind. And then I remembered the most controversial event at Worlds - Pete Irish using live music during his routines. For those who didn't attend Worlds in Portland, here's what went down. Peter had Toby Robinson, who happens to be a tremendous kicker himself and a talented musician, play the dijereedoo (the Aboriginal Australian instrument which is a long tube that you blow into (totally misspelled)) during Peter's routines on the first day and for finals. Before I go any further, my criticism concerns only the use of live music in future events and not in any way Peter's performance in Portland. His worthiness as a world champion cannot be disputed in any regards. Using the same rules that everyone was given and a little creativity, Peter put together the best routine on finals day hands down. With that understood, let me continue... As far as I'm concerned, the issue comes down to this : to maintain the validity of competition, we must have a level playing field. The inclusion of live music can give a player an advantage in the music and movement portion of the judges scores. The musician, with the ability to improvise, can modify the music at a moments notice to mirror the players routine. For instance, every delay can be perfectly accentuated by a pause, every flying kick by a crescendo, and most importantly - if a player drops the bag, there's no chance for the player to fall behind the music. Any one who's ever competed knows the havoc dropping causes, having to skip elements of the routine in order to pick up the next cue. People who defend live music say that the judges will take it into account, and use discretion when tabulating the scores. However, they are asking judges to step outside the bounds of the strict judging rules that they are presented with at Worlds and create their own criteria for scoring. I'd rather not put that burden on judges - not only as they may ignore the advantages of live music, but may also penalize a player for it too greatly creating an unbalanced competition. Either we all use live music or none of us use live music. After the controversey at Worlds, the IFAB had the opportunity to set things straight. They were confronted with the issue of live music accompaniment, and to put it simply - they dropped the ball. They passed a rule to allow live music in future events. In the spirit of competition and sportsmanship, disallow live music in future competitions. What's your opinion? We'd like to know. DK ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 24 21:47:16 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03106 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:47:15 GMT Message-Id: <199709242147.VAA03106@eniac.yak.net.taz> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Daydreaming Moves... From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:39:27 -0500 Organization: MLERF Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Status: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Sep 23, 1997, 2:14:50 PM US CST Steve Goldberg wrote: >At 12:07 PM -0700 9/23/97, Matt Hillebrand wrote: >>If the last leg over is out-in (reverse mirage), then how can it be >zillion times, the definition of paradox (albeit complex and sometimes >disputed) is not limited to in-out dexterities. Few dispute the existence Steve, you know how much a zillion is... Really, lets be more realistic, OK? Its a billion zillion! Anyway, the 'justification' (for anyone as anal retentive about justifications as I am) is this: Paradox is a quick double-pivot of the hips. In regular Pdx, the initial hip pivot is quick, having to make that "S" curve to get around the bag, and the rest is slower and more open. In the Pdx Reverse, the initial pivot is slow as you come around the bag the 'easy' direction, but the rest is rather quick and violent as you have to cut back under the bag to complete the move. The hip pivot is there in both moves, the timing is just a little different for each flavor. -- Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 24 21:47:22 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03123 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:47:21 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03119 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:47:20 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3116) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA03114 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:47:20 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.196] (brat_196.bayarea.net [205.219.91.196]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30904; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:47:22 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970924213328.2524.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:47:08 -0700 To: "Daniel Kramer" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:33 PM -0700 9/24/97, Daniel Kramer wrote: >Since Worlds, there hasn't been much heavy discussion on the list. Thank goodness. :-) >However, they >are asking judges to step outside the bounds of the strict judging rules >that they are presented with at Worlds and create their own criteria for >scoring. Strict judging rules?! Hah hah hah. Anyway, seriously, the advocates of allowing live music also claim that the presentation judges' jobs are to determine how well the player plays to the music (among other things), not how well the music plays to them. Any judge with half a brain would know the difference. It doesn't take a whole new system, and it seems draconian to disallow it. Next will you say that all competitors must submit their music on cassette tapes because CD's offer too high fidelity and not all players can afford CDs'? :-) To set the record straight, the biggest controversy at Worlds was not whether or not it was legal for Peter to play to live music, but rather that several of the judges were UNAWARE of this! They had no idea the music was live until after the routine was over. At least two presentation judges the first round were incensed because they thought they were being misled into believing the music was recorded. Of course, this was not anyone's intention, but offense was taken. So the IFAB *did not* drop the ball on this. The entire point of the new IFAB ruling is to clarify that the judges must be informed if live accompaniment is being used. In many other presentation-oriented sports, such as freestyle disc, live accompaniment is allowed. However, many of them guarantee equal time and space for such accompaniment, and greatly limit setup and breakdown time around the accompaniment to ensure that the event doesn't run any longer because of it. Maybe we should've added these rules as well this year, but honestly we had better things to talk about at the IFAB meeting. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 24 22:02:19 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03199 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:02:17 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03195 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:02:15 GMT Received: from crvich@raleigh.ibm.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3192) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03190 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:02:14 GMT Received: from fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns1d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.235]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31138 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:02:17 -0700 Received: from rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.47]) by fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7RTP-FW1.1) with ESMTP id SAA15504 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (ode1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.178.164]) by rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id SAA26686 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:02:14 -0400 Received: from odent1.raleigh.ibm.com by ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA109576; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:02:09 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970924180104.009041b0@ode1> X-Sender: crvich@ode1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:01:04 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment In-Reply-To: <19970924213328.2524.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 02:33 PM 9/24/97 PDT, Daniel Kramer wrote: >What's your opinion? We'd like to know. I agree with you, Dan. I saw Peter's performance on the first day, and even as I was watching it, although I was very impressed, I made the same realizations you mentioned. It just wasn't fair to the rest of the competitors. He dropped once, and the music lulled (or even stopped, I can't remember for sure) until he got back into action. It seemed to me that the music was trying to follow the moves, not vice versa as is the normal case. Even though everyone may be *allowed* to use live music, for how many people is this really practical? If one person uses it, everyone should...a level playing field, as you say. -- Ernest M. Crvich Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 24 22:12:46 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03340 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:12:39 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03336 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:12:36 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3333) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03331 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:12:34 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA31271 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:12:37 -0700 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ha066281 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:22:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment Message-Id: <000000327042957984121@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:15:21 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.5 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, Sep 24, 1997, 5:01:04 PM US CST Ernest Crvich wrote: >people is this really practical? If one person uses it, everyone >should...a level playing field, as you say. Which is one reason I personally favor the ability to use live music. Maybe that will become more common, and the performances will become more entrancing than ever before! I understand the equality argument. I counter it with the banality of the 'lowest common denominator' syndrome. -- Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 24 22:16:27 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03414 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:16:26 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03410 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:16:24 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3407) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03405 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:16:23 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA31338 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:16:26 -0700 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ga066280 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:13:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Skooling Solo Message-Id: <000000327002957983578@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:06:18 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.5 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org ('freestyle@footbag.org') Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, Sep 24, 1997, 4:18:18 PM US CST Ethan Klein just had to bait me with: >immensely but was hoping to get some feedback from the community as to how >Do people visualize crowds/girls/BAPers watching? First, I don't just visualize people watching; I seek out and kick in the most heavily traffic'd area in town. Here that means the main plaza at the University. There's almost always someone with an eye on you - kinda pumps you up! Second, I focus my solo kicking on playing to the music. I put on a CD or a tape and let the tempo / mood of the music really infuse me. This is how I end up "deciding" what kind of kicking I'm gonna do: some old Ted Nugent for hardcore schooling; POP stuff for dance-kicking, good Jazz when I'm feeling especially strong and want depth and variety. Third, I always try to do at least one of everything I can do on each side during the session. Then always try something new or work on things I'm learning, too. I do alot of matched and mirrored pairs of moves (one on each side, or 'move1Left, move2Left, move2Right, move1Right' sets) and iterations of moves like 'xb delay, same side butterfly stall, paradox dada.' The flow of play is more like small-to-medium 'heats' of high-difficulty strings broken up by fun rhythm kicking, dance kicking, theatrics, and of course the intro/exit of the song. When you really get into the music, it is easy to tell when your flow of moves is upset by a poor set or off-balance move - thus it is easier to 'save' the rally before dropping it. I would much rather do a few simple toe delays or spin kicks to regain my rhythm than drive a 3-4-add string into the ground. Freestyling solo has always been my favorite form of footbag. It gives you the opportunity to truly develop and 'choreograph' not just little 2-minute bursts, but whole songs! The pace is truly different; you've got the freedom to ham around a bit. There isn't any pressure to put together some stunning BAPtist rally, but playing in a very public, high-traffic area does put some pressure on you to perform in some fashion. Of course, there's no break, either! You will push your freestyle conditioning to the limit, and then keep pushing. Good luck on solo styling. I don't think it is absolutely true, but I often tell people that the only way to get really good at freestyle, especially singles freestyle competition, is to kick by yourself, too music. If I hadn't put in the thousands of hours and millions of kicks I have solo, I would never have achieved the level of play that I have. -- Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 24 22:48:23 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03574 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:48:22 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03570 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:48:21 GMT Received: from casey@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3567) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03565 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:48:21 GMT Received: from gravy.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31926 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:48:24 -0700 Received: (from casey@localhost) by gravy.netcomi.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA15234 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:48:07 -0500 From: Casey Zacek Message-Id: <199709242248.RAA15234@gravy.netcomi.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:48:07 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org My opinion: If person A is competing in a singles freestyle event, person A's routine should be all his/her own. If person A has someone else playing music while he kicks, then there is a person B, and it is no longer a singles freestyle event. Now, if you could, say, play the harmonica and kick freestyle at the same time, that'd be another story. In my opinion, if there is someone else playing music, the event becomes a team event (of some sort...). But of course, I've never even competed in freestyle. :) -- Casey Zacek Systems Administrator * Programmer NETCOM Interactive From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 24 23:12:23 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA03757 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:12:22 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA03753 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:12:19 GMT Received: from hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3750) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03748 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:12:18 GMT Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.177]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA32343 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:12:21 -0700 Received: from skull.cs.uidaho.edu (hill9361@skull.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.55.108]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.8.5/1.1) with ESMTP id QAA08604; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by skull.cs.uidaho.edu (8.8.5/1.0) with SMTP id QAA06294; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:12:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: skull.cs.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:12:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Hillebrand To: Casey Zacek cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment In-Reply-To: <199709242248.RAA15234@gravy.netcomi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > But of course, I've never even competed in freestyle. :) You're not missing much. I think the non-competitive kind of freestyle is a bit more fun. Hell, I don't even like dancing, much less choreography. I could just be really sour still from that last place incident, though. :) ______________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@cs.uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 24 23:26:14 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA03826 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:26:10 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA03822 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:26:08 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3819) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03817 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:26:08 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.196] (brat_196.bayarea.net [205.219.91.196]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA32670; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:25:54 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709242248.RAA15234@gravy.netcomi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:26:34 -0700 To: Casey Zacek From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 3:48 PM -0700 9/24/97, Casey Zacek wrote: >If person A is competing in a singles freestyle event, person A's >routine should be all his/her own. Nothing personal, Casey, but your comment is completely off the mark. Music is music is music; whether live or recorded. Are you saying freestylers should have to record their own music in advance, too!? I mean, it's like (a) I get a friend to play live for me, versus (b) pre-recording my friend playing music, versus (c) getting a recording of Easy E from the CD store. So, what? Is Easy my partner in the routine? Gimme a break. There's so little entertaining about freestyle competition as it is, for goodness' sake let's not inhibit people's creativity where it's not necessary. As I said before, the rules should make it so (a) the judges know what's going on and aren't deceived, (b) live music doesn't detract from the running of the event, and (c) everyone has the same opportunity to have live music as long as (a) and (b) are enforced. I think this thread is lame, and we should talk about more important stuff, like.. What about DOUBLES freestyle? What *is* doubles freestyle? Is it two singles players doing singles tricks back and forth, or is it by its nature a different type of event requiring a different judging system? Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 24 23:43:22 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA03951 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:43:21 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA03947 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:43:20 GMT Received: from casey@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3944) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03942 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:43:20 GMT Received: from gravy.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00250 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:42:04 -0700 Received: (from casey@localhost) by gravy.netcomi.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA15983 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:41:54 -0500 From: Casey Zacek Message-Id: <199709242341.SAA15983@gravy.netcomi.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:41:53 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve Goldberg spoke forth with the blessed manuscript: > At 3:48 PM -0700 9/24/97, Casey Zacek wrote: > >If person A is competing in a singles freestyle event, person A's > >routine should be all his/her own. > > Nothing personal, Casey, but your comment is completely off the mark. > Music is music is music; whether live or recorded. Are you saying > freestylers should have to record their own music in advance, too!? I > mean, it's like (a) I get a friend to play live for me, versus (b) > pre-recording my friend playing music, versus (c) getting a recording of > Easy E from the CD store. So, what? Is Easy my partner in the routine? > Gimme a break. No, you misunderstood what I was saying. If someone plays live, they can correct any of their own errors (although this shouldn't even happen in recorded music) as well as help to correct the kicker's errors by slowing down or stopping the music so that the kicker can easily come back up to tempo. This means that the effort given on the floor in front of the judges is a team effort, not a singles effort, in my opinion. > There's so little entertaining about freestyle competition as it is, for > goodness' sake let's not inhibit people's creativity where it's not > necessary. As I said before, the rules should make it so (a) the judges > know what's going on and aren't deceived, (b) live music doesn't detract > from the running of the event, and (c) everyone has the same opportunity to > have live music as long as (a) and (b) are enforced. I agree with this. I don't have a problem with people kicking to live music, but I don't think they can be judged next to people kicking to recorded music without bias. But hey, if someone puts forth that much more effort toward their routine, maybe they deserve it... food for thought. -- Casey Zacek Systems Administrator * Programmer NETCOM Interactive From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 25 00:12:18 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04306 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:12:12 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04302 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:12:09 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4299) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA04297 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:12:08 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.196] (brat_196.bayarea.net [205.219.91.196]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01326; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:12:08 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709242341.SAA15983@gravy.netcomi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:12:52 -0700 To: Casey Zacek From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 4:41 PM -0700 9/24/97, Casey Zacek wrote: >No, you misunderstood what I was saying. If someone plays live, they can >correct any of their own errors (although this shouldn't even happen in >recorded music) as well as help to correct the kicker's errors by slowing >down or stopping the music so that the kicker can easily come back up to >tempo. But we've been over this. As long as the judges know the music is live, they are quite capable of seeing this. In all freestyle competition, the competitors taste in music is part of their evaluation on the presentation card. It's not by accident that players who have poor quality music recordings and who don't seem to focus on the music at all get low rankings on the presentation card. This is a performance sport. So on the flipside, a competitor who comes up with a unique idea for live music, is able to pull it off in a way that doesn't break the rules (which I agree we need to be careful to come up with), and makes the audience go wild, deserves to do better. That's what presentation is all about. >This means that the effort given on the floor in front of the >judges is a team effort, not a singles effort, in my opinion. But it's not team freestyle.. (which is another point I'd like to get into, honestly, in another thread). On this subject, though, the musician isn't and shouldn't be judged, just as per se the particular band playing the recorded music shouldn't be judged. It's the player's choice in music, his implementation of it, and his audience reaction, that are the relevent issues here. I think everyone at the IFAB meeting agreed on these points. >I agree with this. I don't have a problem with people kicking to live >music, but I don't think they can be judged next to people kicking to >recorded music without bias. Nobody said all judging should be without bias. Bias should always be given towards better players and better presentation. That's what it's about. The presentation judges are *subjective* judges. That is their job. My claim is (and the committee agrees) that as long as the presentation judges know that the music is live, they can make their own determination as to whether the competitor is "playing to the music" or if the music is "playing to the competitor". Yes, there is middle ground, but that makes for better presentation, wouldn't you agree? The current IFAB formula-based judging system has plenty of objective judges as well. It's making the formula come out right that is really up for debate. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 25 00:24:57 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04442 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:24:55 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04438 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:24:53 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4435) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA04433 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:24:53 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F19.hotmail.com [207.82.250.30]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA02023 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:24:57 -0700 Received: (qmail 26694 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 1997 00:24:53 -0000 Message-ID: <19970925002453.26692.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.186.166.40 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:24:51 PDT X-Originating-IP: [205.186.166.40] From: "Josh Penney" To: Klein@proscape.com Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Skooling Solo Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:24:51 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Hello fellow freestylers. > I have entered into a new stage of my personal footbag evolution recently, >that of a SOLO SHREDDER. I still kick with my boyz about once a week but >spend the other 5 or 6 days playing alone. I have been thinking about my playing abilities today, and why it is that at events, my strings are short and I end up frustrating myself in the larger circles. Aside from the fact that I play short strings and I'm a frustratable guy, of course. I am a skoolin' guy. I go out and start with 20-30 clippers on either side, move into infinities, drifters, osis, symposium moves, and then the four add stuff. This takes about half an hour to 45 minutes. Then I start working on combos. [move 'a' into absolutely everything > everything into move 'a'. then moves b,c,and d.] When I get the bag, I tend to go for a three add move, then drop it. So I pick it up and do it again. and again. and again. Until I get it. But MOst of my strings are the same way - not bad stuff, amidst a zillion drops. I don't care about it much, but it tends to prevent me from representing like I wanna at tourneys and jams and get togethers and such. That I would like to change. Does anyone else play this way? Did anyone play this way and find a way around it? Today I tried to put some pressure on myself by imagining myself in a circle, and whenever I dropped the ball I stood around and waited for 1-2 minutes. That really sucked and I'm not doing it again. JP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 25 00:28:31 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04477 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:28:24 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04473 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:28:24 GMT Received: from casey@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4470) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA04468 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:28:23 GMT Received: from gravy.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02126 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:28:26 -0700 Received: (from casey@localhost) by gravy.netcomi.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA16468 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:28:16 -0500 From: Casey Zacek Message-Id: <199709250028.TAA16468@gravy.netcomi.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:28:16 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve Goldberg spoke forth with the blessed manuscript: > So on the flipside, a competitor who comes up with a unique idea for live > music, is able to pull it off in a way that doesn't break the rules (which > I agree we need to be careful to come up with), and makes the audience go > wild, deserves to do better. That's what presentation is all about. Cool, whatever; like I said I agree with that. > >I agree with this. I don't have a problem with people kicking to live > >music, but I don't think they can be judged next to people kicking to > >recorded music without bias. > > Nobody said all judging should be without bias. Bias should always be > given towards better players and better presentation. [ etc. ] Ah, but my next sentence (that you chopped off) said exactly that. (But hey, if someone puts forth that much more effort toward their routine, maybe they deserve it.) -- Casey Zacek Systems Administrator * Programmer NETCOM Interactive From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 25 02:23:04 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05210 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 02:22:56 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05206 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 02:22:54 GMT Received: from jma15@cornell.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5203) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA05201 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 02:22:54 GMT Received: from postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (POSTOFFICE.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04461 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:22:59 -0700 Received: from CU-DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU (CU-DIALUP-0522.CIT.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.44.152]) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA02374 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:22:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970924222248.007afa00@postoffice4.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: jma15@postoffice4.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) -- [Cornell Modified] Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:22:50 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "James Meredith Amrine, Jr." Subject: [freestyle] IRC tonight... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If anyone feels like doing the chat thing tonight, I will be on around midnight Eastern time. If I am not there when you get there, stick around, I will be there soon. Jamey From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 25 05:31:16 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA07082 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 05:31:12 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA07068 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 05:31:09 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7065) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA07063 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 05:31:09 GMT Received: from stick.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA07138 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:31:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA01554 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:04:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:04:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] ouch! (knee) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i'm an intermediate freestyler...i can hit lots of 3 add moves and a few 4-add's occasionally. my main problem is that i'm way WAY underdeveloped on my left side. seriously. like can't even get left clippers with regularity. i'm long overdue for some leftside development, so i've started really drilling that retarded left leg. the problem is, after about 10 minutes, my left knee starts to hurt when i do a clipper. right as i'm done cushioning the bag, and starting to set it, i get a sharp pain on the inside of my left knee. anyone else experience this? any advice? thanks! eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 25 05:31:16 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA07083 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 05:31:13 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA07077 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 05:31:10 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7074) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA07072 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 05:31:10 GMT Received: from stick.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA07142 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:31:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA01542 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:01:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:01:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Skooling Solo In-Reply-To: <19970925002453.26692.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Josh Penney wrote: > I have been thinking about my playing abilities today, and why it is > that at events, my strings are short and I end up frustrating myself in > the larger circles. Aside from the fact that I play short strings and i'm the same way josh. while i'm very satisfied with my rate of improvement as far as move difficulty goes, i'm frustrated that my strings are staying pretty short. it's unusual for me to have a string of any more than 5 or 6 moves. does anyone on the list have any advice on how i can, uh, increase my length? i know, practice, practice, practice... but i was wondering if anyone has any advice on any particular way to practice that might be more effective at increasing run length. eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 25 13:22:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA09066 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:21:32 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA09062 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:21:29 GMT Received: from crvich@raleigh.ibm.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9059) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA09057 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:21:26 GMT Received: from fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns2d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.236]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA12934 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 06:21:35 -0700 Received: from rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.48]) by fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7RTP-FW1.1) with ESMTP id JAA46642 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (ode1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.178.164]) by rtpmail02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id JAA26378 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:21:31 -0400 Received: from odent1.raleigh.ibm.com by ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA109802; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:21:28 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970925092017.00900710@ode1> X-Sender: crvich@ode1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:20:17 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] Skooling Solo In-Reply-To: <19970925002453.26692.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 05:24 PM 9/24/97 PDT, Josh Penney wrote: >Does anyone else play this way? Did anyone play this way and find a way >around it? This is what I used to do, too. And from what I saw at Worlds, it's a very common approach. I'd skool skool skool a set of moves by themselves, especially focusing on new/harder moves. Then I started getting shin problems. So I changed my focus...now I go for the longest guiltless strings that I can do well, even if I never hit a single 4-add move (although I usually try to work a few of the ones I'm confident with into the act). It's still kind of like skooling, in that I do a lot of the same moves (butterfly, osis, pdx mirage, whirl, etc.). But as all the moves are linked together randomly (on both sides pretty evenly), I've gotten better at letting my legs figure out what to do next, as opposed to trying to plan ahead. It took awhile to get that stuff smoothed out, but I feel a lot better about my shred now (I was frustrated with myself in the same way you were/are, in that I could hit some really cool moves, but I dropped too much to satisfy my self-critical nature). But I still reserve 10 or 15 minutes near the end of my session to attempt a few tough tricks. 8-) Shredding in high-traffic areas (as Derrick prescribed) helped out a lot. In public, I'm less likely to try the same [hard] move ad nauseam...instead I feel a need to perform smoothly and confidently with more variety. In addition, I rarely curse out loud anymore. ;-) And I have to admit, I still think I prefer to shred solo. For several reasons: (1) the ego trip (street folks only comment when I shred alone, and I live for that!), (2) lower expectations (don't feel a need to hit big-add tricks in order to get the obligatory high-five/hand-slap), (3) can listen to any kind of music I want, or none at all (I'm just not into the kinds of music most other people are into, especially footbaggers). But I'm a pretty solitary person by nature, so shredding alone is quite natural. I've always felt, though, that this trait is especially beneficial for the sport. And actually, Josh, I'm envious of your ability to jump in a BAP circle without hesitation...I'm plagued by "I'm not worthy" syndrome, I guess. 8-/ -- Ernest M. Crvich Durham, NC, USA http://www.mindspring.com/~ecrvich Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 25 13:31:52 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA09108 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:31:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA09104 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:31:51 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9101) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA09099 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:31:51 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA13101 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 06:32:00 -0700 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id na066521 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:40:45 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Skooling Solo Message-Id: <000000327882958039277@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:34:36 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.5 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, Sep 24, 1997, 11:01:30 PM US CST Eric wrote: >any more than 5 or 6 moves. does anyone on the list have any advice on >how i can, uh, increase my length? i know, practice, practice, Its really quite simple - if you want to decrease the drops, focus on keeping the bag up, rather than keeping the add ratio up. When I used to really 'train' for competition, I would count adds per rally, and write each rally down, for 10 minutes. Then you know the number of drops, the average rally length, and some measure of add density. By using that particular measuring device, it helped me understand the dynamics of difficulty vs. drops, and improve my consistency quite a bit. -- Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 25 16:27:02 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00768 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:25:45 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00764 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:25:43 GMT From: freefloe@continet.com Received: from freefloe@continet.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (761) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00759 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:25:42 GMT Received: from falcon.continet.com (falcon.continet.com [206.58.168.254]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15416 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:25:43 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME ([206.58.169.114]) by falcon.continet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release 0121 ID# 0-32324U2000L100S10000) with SMTP id AAB126 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:26:29 -0700 X-Sender: freefloe@continet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] kicking to live music Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:26:29 -0700 Message-ID: <19970925162546905.AAB126@LOCALNAME> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Now, if you could, say, play the >harmonica and kick freestyle at the same time, that'd be another >story. I can't remember who wrote this, but Animal did this a long time ago. I didn't get to see it live but have it on video and it was very humerous and entertaining. He started out holding a tune and kicking to it, though as he got tired his music became pretty sporadic, long, inhalations and exhalations. As to Peter's freestyle routine at Worlds...I watched both rounds and it was obvious to me that Toby was playing. I think Pete even brought Toby out on the floor before and after. And though there is the opportunity for some coordination by the musician there is also risk of problems that one has less control over than if one used recorded music. peace, becca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 25 16:45:08 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00884 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:45:06 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00880 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:45:05 GMT Received: from kenny@valuserve.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (877) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00875 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:45:05 GMT Received: from nt-mail01.ValuServe.Com (pophost2.valuserve.com [208.209.39.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15730 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:45:06 -0700 Received: from techsupport ([208.223.199.30]) by nt-mail01.ValuServe.Com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO205e ID# 533-38157U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA87 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:49:54 -0700 Message-ID: <342A9504.A26@valuserve.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:44:52 -0700 From: kenny@valuserve.com (ValuServe - Kenny Zelov) Reply-To: kenny@valuserve.com Organization: valuserve X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Beginner. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all I am new to the sport after having attended the 97' World Championships. So far I have been concentrating on simply keeping the footbag in the air using almost strictly inside kicks. I have progressed to the point where I can consecutively kick about 20-30 times. How adept should I be at inside kicks before I move on to bigger and better things? I feel like I would like to be very smooth before moving on..any recommendations. I understand that most of the regulars here are far beyond my level, however, I am sure that this info would benefit a lot of us neophytes. So thanks. Kenny From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 25 21:48:23 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03268 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:48:12 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03264 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:48:10 GMT Received: from tuhuge@sfsu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3261) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA03259 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:48:10 GMT Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22004 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:48:13 -0700 Received: from station13.sfsu.edu (24hrlab-213.sfsu.edu [130.212.37.213]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA27438; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:48:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970925144425.00693850@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:44:25 -0700 To: "Daniel Kramer" From: Tu Vu Subject: Re: [freestyle] Daydreaming Moves... Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <199709241419.HAA29503@f44.hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 07:19 AM 9/24/97 PDT, you wrote: > >>> I've hit the flurry bail to toe but have never sealed it. >>> >>> It's called fission and it's the barraging paradox reverse mirage. >>> >>> Another cool one is barraging paradox mirage. >>> >>> I haven't come up for a name for it yet. any suggestions? >>> >>> >>> 2 Huge > > >Reverge REVERGE sounds cool but talking to Josh P. I came up with "CARNIFEX". It's a gnarly looking alein with two Huge Claws as arms and slices people to death. YEAH!!!! 2 Huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 25 21:56:46 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03397 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:56:45 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03393 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:56:45 GMT Received: from tuhuge@sfsu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3390) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA03388 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:56:44 GMT Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22145 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:56:45 -0700 Received: from station13.sfsu.edu (24hrlab-213.sfsu.edu [130.212.37.213]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA28960; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:55:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970925145202.006898cc@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:52:02 -0700 To: Ethan Klein From: Tu Vu Subject: Re: [freestyle] Skooling Solo Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 05:18 PM 9/24/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hello fellow freestylers. > I have entered into a new stage of my personal footbag evolution recently, >that of a SOLO SHREDDER. I still kick with my boyz about once a week but >spend the other 5 or 6 days playing alone. Usually I pick a few combos or >tricks that I want to hit during a session and focus on hitting them... i.e >the other day I just worked drifter into double leg over on both sides. I >would try that combo, then try something else, then come back to that >combo, etc. The sport assumes a different essence when playing solo. > Every juggle becomes less of an all out explosion of capability and more a >piece/trial/experiment. Less super-long guiltlessness, more weird, random >combos and moves that should have been mastered long ago. I enjoy it >immensely but was hoping to get some feedback from the community as to how >you all shred solo. Drills, strait-up freestylin, computer-selected move >combinations? >Do people visualize crowds/girls/BAPers watching? >See ya - Ethan I bet you could hit barraging butterfly easier when you think a cute girl is watching!!!!! Oh yeah, to reply to your question, Drills and video are where it at! I usually watch a ton of footage to get ideas or get inspiration before i go out and have a massive session! Drills are always good to keep things fresh in your muscle memory. For you Ethan, i would suggest skooling the basic 3 adders(butterfly, osis, paradox mirage, etc.) and then build up to those phat combos you are hitting. 2 Huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 26 03:44:06 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA05541 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 03:43:44 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA05537 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 03:43:42 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5534) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA05532 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 03:43:36 GMT Received: from stick.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA27261 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:43:41 -0700 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA04575 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:43:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:43:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric Reply-To: Eric To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Beginner. In-Reply-To: <342A9504.A26@valuserve.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org the main thing that you will do with inside kicks in freestyle is gain or regain control of the bag. when you receive a serve, you'll usually use inside kicks to get the bag under control for a nice stall or move to start your run. sooooo...the question is, when you start kicking it, does it tend to come more under your control, or less? if you can take a less than perfect serve and bring it under control using inside kicks, then it's time to start working on some stalls. if, however, it's a constant battle to keep the bag up, you need to work on those kicks some more. hope this helps, and keep kicking! eric On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, ValuServe - Kenny Zelov wrote: > Hello all > > I am new to the sport after having attended the 97' World Championships. > So far I have been concentrating on simply keeping the footbag in the > air using almost strictly inside kicks. I have progressed to the point > where I can consecutively kick about 20-30 times. How adept should I be > at inside kicks before I move on to bigger and better things? I feel > like I would like to be very smooth before moving on..any > recommendations. > > I understand that most of the regulars here are far beyond my level, > however, I am sure that this info would benefit a lot of us neophytes. > So thanks. > > > Kenny > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 26 04:33:06 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA05879 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 04:33:04 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA05875 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 04:33:02 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5872) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA05870 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 04:33:02 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.196] (brat_196.bayarea.net [205.219.91.196]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA28095 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:33:08 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <342A9504.A26@valuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:33:51 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Beginner. Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Actually, Kenny, you know the right solution: kick with me every week, and I'll take you "to the next level". Then of course, as usual, I'll leave you there. :-) Heh heh. Half kidding. :-) Seriously, there's no substitute for having someone watch you, give you ideas for things that they think you can do, and give you instruction. You're already ready for 1-, 2-, and 3-add freestyle moves -- you seem to have your kicks and control down solid. For those of you who think I was being flippant, actually, Kenny lives near me and has kicked with me at Stanford. The next best thing to having your own private tutor is video. Get Tricks of the Trade by Kenny Shults -- and work your way through it. The tricks in there are sort of in order, and offer a good program of training. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 26 05:27:39 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA06158 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 05:27:27 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA06154 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 05:27:25 GMT Received: from s9709652@jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6151) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA06149 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 05:27:24 GMT Received: from rmit.EDU.AU (voga.rmit.EDU.AU [131.170.1.20]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA29148 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:27:28 -0700 Received: from jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au (jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.EDU.AU [131.170.36.250]) by rmit.EDU.AU (8.8.7/8.7.3/voga/ram3/anti-SPAM) with ESMTP id PAA17446 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:26:49 +1000 (EST) Received: from POISSON/SpoolDir by jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 26 Sep 97 15:28:51 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by POISSON (Mercury 1.21); 26 Sep 97 15:28:44 +1100 From: "LYNTON STEPHENS" Organization: Civil & Geological Engineering RMIT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:28:42 EST-10 Subject: [freestyle] swirling + NZ X-Confirm-Reading-To: "LYNTON STEPHENS" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-ID: <30FB7A354C6@jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi again, I know it was a few days since this was last discussed but I just wanted to add a few things. The reason I asked about reverse-swirling moves is that I was fooling around doing butterfly swirls when I decided to do the swirl the other way, and landed it after a number of tries. toe set > op out [dex] > op in (swirl) [dex] > same clip [xbd] [del] Since then I've found out that Eric Windsor has landed a whirling reverse swirl, which I can only imagine would look very cool. But the idea of using a reverse swirl as a set rather than a finish (stall) for a move is really interesting. This would sort of be like a cross-body equivalent of a pixie set. What a great idea. Somebody mentioned that Scott Davidson can do the Twirl as a `bread and butter' move. Surely this paves the way for a whole new fresh batch of crazy tricks. What would look really psycho is a `reverse-swirling blender' - like a Twirl but with a whirl in there after the set, before the osis. clip > same in (swirl) > op in > (back) spin > clip There are a few other bizarre moves which could be done: Reverse-swirling butterfly clip > same in (swirl) [dex] > op out [dex] > op clip [xbd] [del] Reverse-swirling whirl clip > same in (swirl) [dex] > op in [dex] > op clip [xbd] [del] etc. Ever been tried? On a different topic, what about those guys in NZ!! Coventry hitting 5 consec. dbl switches and `the sock' hitting 16 consec. symposium mirages. That is world class, top stuff for such a small country. In contrast, Australia (where I live) is barren. The closest Australia get to worlds action is through Peter Irish's didgeridoo. NZ is giving us a pasting. Shred it up everyone. Lynton From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 26 17:45:05 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01193 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:43:30 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01189 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:43:28 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1186) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01184 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:43:28 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F7.hotmail.com [207.82.250.18]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA06979 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:43:29 -0700 Received: (qmail 7641 invoked by uid 0); 26 Sep 1997 17:43:26 -0000 Message-ID: <19970926174326.7640.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:43:26 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.172] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Daydreaming Moves... Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:43:26 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>>> I've hit the flurry bail to toe but have never sealed it. >>>> >>>> It's called fission and it's the barraging paradox reverse mirage. >>>> >>>> Another cool one is barraging paradox mirage. >>>> >>>> I haven't come up for a name for it yet. any suggestions? >>>> >>>> >>>> 2 Huge >> >> >>Reverge > > >REVERGE sounds cool but talking to Josh P. I came up with "CARNIFEX". > >It's a gnarly looking alein with two Huge Claws as arms and slices people >to death. > > >YEAH!!!! > > >2 Huge If you were in Texas, you'd call it Chili con Carnifex. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 26 18:58:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01753 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:57:47 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01749 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:57:45 GMT Received: from crvich@raleigh.ibm.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1746) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01744 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:57:45 GMT Received: from fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns2d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.236]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08626 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:57:46 -0700 Received: from rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.24]) by fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7RTP-FW1.1) with ESMTP id OAA20256 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (ode1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.178.164]) by rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id OAA44280 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:57:45 -0400 Received: from odent1.raleigh.ibm.com by ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA108092; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:57:39 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970926145613.00902930@ode1> X-Sender: crvich@ode1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:56:13 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] Daydreaming Moves... In-Reply-To: <19970926174326.7640.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Another cool one is barraging paradox mirage. > > I haven't come up for a name for it yet. any suggestions? Is "Flurrage" already taken? That seems to be the most appropriate (IMHO), based on similarly named moves. -- Ernest M. Crvich Durham, NC, USA http://www.mindspring.com/~ecrvich Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 26 19:12:31 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01924 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:12:30 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01920 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:12:27 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1917) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01915 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:12:27 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F99.hotmail.com [207.82.250.218]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA09695 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:12:28 -0700 Received: (qmail 7985 invoked by uid 0); 26 Sep 1997 19:04:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19970926190457.7984.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:04:33 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.172] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:04:33 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve wrote: Next will you say that all competitors must submit their music on cassette tapes because CD's offer too high fidelity and not all players can afford CDs'? :-) I write: Despite the cute smiley face at the end of Steve's statement, his point is no less valid. Where do we draw the line at uniformity? SHOULD all music be on cassettes, SHOULD we all be forced to play with the same shoes? The point is, footbagging competition has acquired certain norms over the years. These norms provide unspoken rules of sportsmanship to maintain a level playing field. Live music deviates from the norm too much to be disregarded. Imagine this : A player wins the world championships with an anti-gravitational footbag that hovers in mid air. Would you chalk this one up to ingenuity and allow it in future events changing the sport forever("after all, this is FREEstyle")? Or would you say that there was too much of a competitive advantage bestowed to this player and abolish it's use? Kicking a footbag to recorded music, and kicking a footbag to live music are different entities. The former is a sport, the latter is theatre. DK ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 26 19:53:52 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02201 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:53:51 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02197 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:53:49 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2194) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02192 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:53:49 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.196] (brat_196.bayarea.net [205.219.91.196]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11105; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:53:50 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970926190457.7984.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:54:41 -0700 To: "Daniel Kramer" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:04 PM -0700 9/26/97, Daniel Kramer wrote: >Kicking a footbag to recorded music, and kicking a footbag to live music >are different entities. The former is a sport, the latter is theatre. Footbag freestyle is a "performance sport". It is exactly a hybrid between the two entities you mention. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 26 20:16:30 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02423 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:16:21 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02419 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:16:18 GMT Received: from casey@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2416) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02414 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:16:17 GMT Received: from gravy.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA11539 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:16:18 -0700 Received: (from casey@localhost) by gravy.netcomi.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA03164 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:16:16 -0500 From: Casey Zacek Message-Id: <199709262016.PAA03164@gravy.netcomi.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:16:16 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Daniel Kramer spoke forth with the blessed manuscript: > Imagine this : A player wins the world championships with an > anti-gravitational footbag that hovers in mid air. Would you chalk this > one up to ingenuity and allow it in future events changing the sport > forever("after all, this is FREEstyle")? Or would you say that there was > too much of a competitive advantage bestowed to this player and abolish > it's use? ... Weight of footbag: Minimum: 20g (0.71 ounces) Maximum: 70g (2.47 ounces) ... then you gotta start wondering, 'does something that is anti-gravitational have weight?' whee -- Casey Zacek Systems Administrator * Programmer NETCOM Interactive From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 26 22:05:29 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03244 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:04:06 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03238 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:04:02 GMT Received: from sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3230) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03228 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:04:01 GMT Received: from dept.english.upenn.edu (DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU [130.91.75.246]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA13049; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:04:03 -0700 Received: (from sunilj@localhost) by dept.english.upenn.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) id SAA18824; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:04:03 -0400 From: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani) Message-Id: <199709262204.SAA18824@dept.english.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment To: brat@footbag.org (Steve Goldberg) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: from "Steve Goldberg" at Sep 26, 97 12:54:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org According to Steve Goldberg: > > At 12:04 PM -0700 9/26/97, Daniel Kramer wrote: > >Kicking a footbag to recorded music, and kicking a footbag to live music > >are different entities. The former is a sport, the latter is theatre. > > Footbag freestyle is a "performance sport". It is exactly a hybrid between > the two entities you mention. > Ah yes, but there is a difference in playing the sport for the passion and love of the game and playing something for the sake of the officials. I am talking about soccer and hockey players taking "dives" to get calls from officials. The official does not always know whether there was an infraction or if the dive was just theatrical. Yes they are part of the game, and I have taken dives myself in soccer. However, I feel differently about footbag than I do about soccer... in terms of the team competetive aspects. I see this in the same way that footbag judges may not always know whether the kicker is playing to the music or the music is playing to the kicker. Most likely, if the full routine is music playing to player, officials will realize it. But what if it is player to music for most of it, but just key components (ie, after a drop, or decrease or increase in the pace of the music to make up for a kickers nerves on the day of a routine) are music playing to player? I do not feel so confident that the judges will pick up on these components. Especially when they are concerned with other aspects of judging as well. I do not believe that live accompaniment should be allowed for freestyle routines. Sunil And Steve, there have been plenty of threads which I, personally, have not been interested in, but you do not see me throwing a tantrum over them. Please, if you do not like the thread or are not interested in it, press the delete key and spare us your whining. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 26 22:18:53 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03356 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:17:36 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03352 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:17:33 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3349) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03347 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:17:32 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.196] (brat_196.bayarea.net [205.219.91.196]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA13186 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:17:34 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709262204.SAA18824@dept.english.upenn.edu> References: from "Steve Goldberg" at Sep 26, 97 12:54:41 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:18:22 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 3:04 PM -0700 9/26/97, Sunil Jani wrote: >I do not feel so confident that the >judges will pick up on these components. Especially when they are >concerned with other aspects of judging as well. I do not believe that >live accompaniment should be allowed for freestyle routines. That's a fine opinion, and definitely many agree with you. But more people (especially on the IFAB) disagree with you. I invite you and everyone else with strong opinions on freestyle rules to join the committee. The process is outlined on the website at http://ifab.footbag.org/ For the record, again, IFAB didn't "drop the ball"; we discussed and evaluated the issue of live music, and made a decision to allow it. If it is going to truly become such a controversial issue, I have no problem debating it more. Also for the record, the judges in question are "presentation" judges -- they are not, in fact, concerned with many other aspects of judging as well. The way the IFAB formula-based judging system is designed, judges are only concerned with specific things. The "presentation" judges are only occupied with the task of assigning scores along specific dimensions -- including "movement and music", "floor, planes, and travel", and "general form". I don't think they're overloaded, and I don't think it's that hard for a judge to make that kind of call. I also think it's somewhat a no-win situation to make any rules at all in a sport such as freestyle. Obviously, we need some rules, but also obviously, for the sport to remain a performance sport and to merit the title, "freestyle", we can't be too draconian in those rules. The spirit of the current IFAB rules is to allow reasonable flexibility while attempting to ensure fairness. That said, I'm not necessarily implying that the current IFAB rules with respect to live music are fair; but I think cutting live music out altogether is draconian. Perhaps there's a middle ground. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 29 19:02:17 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01745 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:01:00 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01741 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:00:57 GMT Received: from regul8tr@uclink4.berkeley.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1738) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu (uclink4.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.155.12]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01732 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:00:47 GMT Received: from hil-101-78.Reshall.Berkeley.EDU (hil-101-78.Reshall.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.101.78]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA07211 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hil-101-78.Reshall.Berkeley.EDU with Microsoft Mail id <01BCCCCF.05A187E0@hil-101-78.Reshall.Berkeley.EDU>; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:58:38 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCCCCF.05A187E0@hil-101-78.Reshall.Berkeley.EDU> From: Ryan Mulroney To: "'freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Lets clear some shit up Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:58:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCCCCF.06A4EE20" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCCCCF.06A4EE20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey stylers, I've been hearing all this crap about Pete's routine and yet no = one has mentioned the most relevant and conclusive point. I was there = (competing against pete) and while watching his finals routine I noticed = that Pete blatantly made eye contact with T dogg Toby. Afterwards I = asked Toby(my good friend) if he was playing to what he thought pete was = going to do and he honestly told me that he was playing based on the = body language and visual communications that he was recieving from pete. = While Pete's routine was pretty dope I do think it was unfair. It would = have been nice if I could have looked over at the sound man during my = routine and had him stop the song when I dropped the bag or paused, = fotunately I had the forethought to choreograph my routine. While this = letter is an attempt to clear shit up and end the argument it will = probably start a few new ones so my efforts are all for not.=20 Later, Ryan The Regulator ---------- From: = owner-freestyle-digest@majordomo.footbag.org[SMTP:owner-freestyle-digest@= majordomo.footbag.org] Sent: Friday, September 26, 1997 4:50 PM To: freestyle-digest@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: Freestyle Digest V1 #224 Freestyle Digest Friday, 26 September 1997 Volume 01 : = Number 224 In this issue: Re: [freestyle] Beginner. Re: [freestyle] Beginner. [freestyle] swirling + NZ Re: [freestyle] Daydreaming Moves... Re: [freestyle] Daydreaming Moves... Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the = freestyle or freestyle-digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:43:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Beginner. the main thing that you will do with inside kicks in freestyle is gain = or regain control of the bag. when you receive a serve, you'll usually use inside kicks to get the bag under control for a nice stall or move to start your run. sooooo...the question is, when you start kicking it, = does it tend to come more under your control, or less? if you can take a = less than perfect serve and bring it under control using inside kicks, then it's time to start working on some stalls. if, however, it's a constant battle to keep the bag up, you need to work on those kicks some more. hope this helps, and keep kicking! eric On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, ValuServe - Kenny Zelov wrote: > Hello all >=20 > I am new to the sport after having attended the 97' World = Championships. > So far I have been concentrating on simply keeping the footbag in the > air using almost strictly inside kicks. I have progressed to the = point > where I can consecutively kick about 20-30 times. How adept should I = be > at inside kicks before I move on to bigger and better things? I feel > like I would like to be very smooth before moving on..any > recommendations. =20 >=20 > I understand that most of the regulars here are far beyond my level, > however, I am sure that this info would benefit a lot of us neophytes. > So thanks.=20 >=20 >=20 > Kenny >=20 ------------------------------ From: Steve Goldberg Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:33:51 -0700 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Beginner. Actually, Kenny, you know the right solution: kick with me every week, = and I'll take you "to the next level". Then of course, as usual, I'll leave you there. :-) Heh heh. Half kidding. :-) Seriously, there's no substitute for having someone watch you, give you ideas for things that they think you can do, and give you instruction. You're already ready for 1-, 2-, and 3-add freestyle moves -- you seem = to have your kicks and control down solid. For those of you who think I = was being flippant, actually, Kenny lives near me and has kicked with me at Stanford. The next best thing to having your own private tutor is video. Get = Tricks of the Trade by Kenny Shults -- and work your way through it. The = tricks in there are sort of in order, and offer a good program of training. Steve ------------------------------ From: "LYNTON STEPHENS" Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:28:42 EST-10 Subject: [freestyle] swirling + NZ Hi again, I know it was a few days since this was last discussed but I just=20 wanted to add a few things. The reason I asked about reverse-swirling moves is that I was fooling around doing butterfly swirls when I decided to do the swirl the other way, and landed it after a number of tries. toe set > op out [dex] > op in (swirl) [dex] > same clip [xbd] [del]=20 Since then I've found out that Eric Windsor has landed a whirling=20 reverse swirl, which I can only imagine would look very cool. But the idea of using a reverse swirl as a set rather than a finish=20 (stall) for a move is really interesting. This would sort of be like=20 a cross-body equivalent of a pixie set. What a great idea. Somebody mentioned that Scott Davidson can do the Twirl as a `bread and butter' move. Surely this paves the way for a whole new fresh batch of crazy tricks. What would look really psycho is a `reverse-swirling blender' - - like a Twirl but with a whirl in there after the set, before the = osis. clip > same in (swirl) > op in > (back) spin > clip There are a few other bizarre moves which could be done: Reverse-swirling butterfly clip > same in (swirl) [dex] > op out [dex] > op clip [xbd] [del] Reverse-swirling whirl clip > same in (swirl) [dex] > op in [dex] > op clip [xbd] [del] etc. Ever been tried? On a different topic, what about those guys in NZ!! Coventry hitting 5 consec. dbl switches and `the sock' hitting 16=20 consec. symposium mirages. That is world class, top stuff for=20 such a small country. In contrast, Australia (where I live) is barren. The closest Australia get to worlds action is through Peter Irish's didgeridoo. NZ is giving us a pasting. Shred it up everyone. Lynton ------------------------------ From: "Daniel Kramer" Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:43:26 PDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Daydreaming Moves... >>>> I've hit the flurry bail to toe but have never sealed it. >>>>=20 >>>> It's called fission and it's the barraging paradox reverse mirage. >>>>=20 >>>> Another cool one is barraging paradox mirage. =20 >>>>=20 >>>> I haven't come up for a name for it yet. any suggestions? >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> 2 Huge >> >> >>Reverge > > >REVERGE sounds cool but talking to Josh P. I came up with "CARNIFEX". > >It's a gnarly looking alein with two Huge Claws as arms and slices=20 people >to death. > > >YEAH!!!! > > >2 Huge If you were in Texas, you'd call it Chili con Carnifex. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Ernest Crvich Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:56:13 -0400 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Daydreaming Moves... > Another cool one is barraging paradox mirage. =20 >=20 > I haven't come up for a name for it yet. any suggestions? Is "Flurrage" already taken? That seems to be the most appropriate (IMHO), based on similarly named moves. - -- Ernest M. Crvich Durham, NC, USA http://www.mindspring.com/~ecrvich Have footbag, will shred. ------------------------------ From: "Daniel Kramer" Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:04:33 PDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment Steve wrote: Next will you say that all competitors must submit their music on=20 cassette tapes because CD's offer too high fidelity and not all players=20 can afford CDs'? :-) I write: Despite the cute smiley face at the end of Steve's statement, his point=20 is no less valid. Where do we draw the line at uniformity? SHOULD all=20 music be on cassettes, SHOULD we all be forced to play with the same=20 shoes? The point is, footbagging competition has acquired certain norms over=20 the years. These norms provide unspoken rules of sportsmanship to=20 maintain a level playing field. Live music deviates from the norm too=20 much to be disregarded. Imagine this : A player wins the world championships with an=20 anti-gravitational footbag that hovers in mid air. Would you chalk this=20 one up to ingenuity and allow it in future events changing the sport=20 forever("after all, this is FREEstyle")? Or would you say that there was = too much of a competitive advantage bestowed to this player and abolish=20 it's use? Kicking a footbag to recorded music, and kicking a footbag to live music = are different entities. The former is a sport, the latter is theatre. DK ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Steve Goldberg Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:54:41 -0700 Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment At 12:04 PM -0700 9/26/97, Daniel Kramer wrote: >Kicking a footbag to recorded music, and kicking a footbag to live = music >are different entities. The former is a sport, the latter is theatre. Footbag freestyle is a "performance sport". It is exactly a hybrid = between the two entities you mention. Steve ------------------------------ From: Casey Zacek Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:16:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment Daniel Kramer spoke forth with the blessed manuscript: > Imagine this : A player wins the world championships with an=20 > anti-gravitational footbag that hovers in mid air. Would you chalk = this=20 > one up to ingenuity and allow it in future events changing the sport=20 > forever("after all, this is FREEstyle")? Or would you say that there = was=20 > too much of a competitive advantage bestowed to this player and = abolish=20 > it's use? ... Weight of footbag: Minimum: 20g (0.71 ounces) Maximum: 70g (2.47 ounces) ... then you gotta start wondering, 'does something that is = anti-gravitational have weight?' whee - -- Casey Zacek Systems Administrator * Programmer NETCOM Interactive ------------------------------ From: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment According to Steve Goldberg: >=20 > At 12:04 PM -0700 9/26/97, Daniel Kramer wrote: > >Kicking a footbag to recorded music, and kicking a footbag to live = music > >are different entities. The former is a sport, the latter is theatre. >=20 > Footbag freestyle is a "performance sport". It is exactly a hybrid = between > the two entities you mention. >=20 Ah yes, but there is a difference in playing the sport for the passion = and love of the game and playing something for the sake of the officials. I am talking about soccer and hockey players taking "dives" to get calls from officials. The official does not always know whether there was an infraction or if the dive was just theatrical. Yes they are part of the game, and I have taken dives myself in soccer. However, I feel differently about footbag than I do about soccer... in terms of the team competetive aspects. =20 I see this in the same way that footbag judges may not always know whether the kicker is playing to the music or the music is playing to = the kicker. Most likely, if the full routine is music playing to player, officials will realize it. But what if it is player to music for most = of it, but just key components (ie, after a drop, or decrease or increase = in the pace of the music to make up for a kickers nerves on the day of a routine) are music playing to player? I do not feel so confident that = the judges will pick up on these components. Especially when they are concerned with other aspects of judging as well. I do not believe that live accompaniment should be allowed for freestyle routines. =20 Sunil=20 And Steve, there have been plenty of threads which I, personally, have = not been interested in, but you do not see me throwing a tantrum over them. Please, if you do not like the thread or are not interested in it, press the delete key and spare us your whining. =20 ------------------------------ From: Steve Goldberg Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:18:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [freestyle] live music accompaniment At 3:04 PM -0700 9/26/97, Sunil Jani wrote: >I do not feel so confident that the >judges will pick up on these components. Especially when they are >concerned with other aspects of judging as well. I do not believe that >live accompaniment should be allowed for freestyle routines. That's a fine opinion, and definitely many agree with you. But more = people (especially on the IFAB) disagree with you. I invite you and everyone = else with strong opinions on freestyle rules to join the committee. The = process is outlined on the website at http://ifab.footbag.org/ For the record, again, IFAB didn't "drop the ball"; we discussed and evaluated the issue of live music, and made a decision to allow it. If = it is going to truly become such a controversial issue, I have no problem debating it more. Also for the record, the judges in question are "presentation" judges -- they are not, in fact, concerned with many other aspects of judging as well. The way the IFAB formula-based judging system is designed, judges are only concerned with specific things. The "presentation" judges are only occupied with the task of assigning scores along specific = dimensions - -- including "movement and music", "floor, planes, and travel", and "general form". I don't think they're overloaded, and I don't think = it's that hard for a judge to make that kind of call. I also think it's somewhat a no-win situation to make any rules at all = in a sport such as freestyle. Obviously, we need some rules, but also obviously, for the sport to remain a performance sport and to merit the title, "freestyle", we can't be too draconian in those rules. The = spirit of the current IFAB rules is to allow reasonable flexibility while attempting to ensure fairness. That said, I'm not necessarily implying that the current IFAB rules with respect to live music are fair; but I think cutting live music out altogether is draconian. Perhaps there's a middle ground. Steve ------------------------------ End of Freestyle Digest V1 #224 ******************************* To subscribe to freestyle-digest, send the command: subscribe freestyle-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@footbag.org". A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "freestyle-digest" in the command above with "freestyle". If you are changing from one form of the list to the other, you will need to first unsubscribe yourself from the previous version. In other words, to switch to the regular form if you're currently on the digest, you need to send the command: unsubscribe freestyle-digest subscribe freestyle in the body of a message to "Majordomo@footbag.org". ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCCCCF.06A4EE20 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IikSAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAWAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAXQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVzdHlsZUBtYWpv cmRvbW8uZm9vdGJhZy5vcmcAU01UUABmcmVlc3R5bGVAbWFqb3Jkb21vLmZvb3RiYWcub3JnAAAA AB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAgAAAAZnJlZXN0eWxlQG1ham9yZG9tby5mb290 YmFnLm9yZwADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAiAAAAJ2ZyZWVzdHlsZUBtYWpvcmRvbW8u Zm9vdGJhZy5vcmcnAAAAAgELMAEAAAAlAAAAU01UUDpGUkVFU1RZTEVATUFKT1JET01PLkZPT1RC QUcuT1JHAAAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAACg0oBBIABABgAAABMZXRz IGNsZWFyIHNvbWUgc2hpdCB1cABwCAEFgAMADgAAAM0HCQAdAAsAOgAcAAEAXAEBIIADAA4AAADN BwkAHQALADEAEgABAEkBAQmAAQAhAAAANjJBRDkwMDJCRjM4RDExMTk0MjA0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA swYBA5AGAIgiAAATAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAA OQBgODWsCc28AR4AcAABAAAAGAAAAExldHMgY2xlYXIgc29tZSBzaGl0IHVwAAIBcQABAAAAFgAA AAG8zQmr8k7Y4AM4vxHRlCBERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAeAAAA cmVndWw4dHJAdWNsaW5rNC5iZXJrZWxleS5lZHUAAAADAAYQbP4ZeAMABxBeLgAAHgAIEAEAAABl AAAASEVZU1RZTEVSUyxJVkVCRUVOSEVBUklOR0FMTFRISVNDUkFQQUJPVVRQRVRFU1JPVVRJTkVB TkRZRVROT09ORUhBU01FTlRJT05FRFRIRU1PU1RSRUxFVkFOVEFORENPTkNMVQAAAAACAQkQAQAA AP4gAAD6IAAAPkgAAExaRnVJfSC0/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMC gzIDxgcTAoO6MxMNfQqACM8J2TsV/3gyNTUCgAqBDbELYG7wZzEwMxQgCwoS8gwBAmMAQCBIZXkg c8h0eWwEkHMsCoUcBEBJJ3ZlIGIJ4SDMaGUKwAuAZyAHQAMglHRoBAAgBQBhcB2AlQbgdQVAUBIA ZScEIB8DYB6gC4AcoABwZCB54RIAIG5vIAIgHKARwPcEIAeAAjBpIHEf4B3QHKDXBGAbIB8wZRtQ dgBwBUBzH8IFoG5jCkAAkByRcJJvC4B0LhxgIHcgwZMhkRYAICgFoG1wEgCdHVNnC3Eh8SURZSkf s+53HeAbUCQhdBGwHVId4n5mC4AHQB8oJBAgQB9wY38hYycQHsMcsAtgAZACMGz3GwAAwA2wIBrw HKAi8QGQDmMFQAPwHdAgVCBkhG9nHXBUb2J5I/D+QQGABJAkMAsgBCAkECDAJmshYSxyKG0bAGdv /wRwJ8AIgR/QJkAGkB0BJCP1C1F5HVJ0IFAmoCmBIaHzHdAIYGdoJeQkIy6AMDX/LCAfsyGhMTAf kBsgKnEwcN5sH+AHgClUL41iIMAhYbcCICGDBuBkGwAY4nUlgD0fpHYEADcQAyAk4W11fQMAYycQ ITEkUjSYFgBjvwiQN6AdYQNSJfMj8Fcms/8e3S+zFgACQBsALCAlECQB8zLBHdFuay9AK5EgwThQ +mYLcHIj8SuRCGA0ERHA/xyWOGEcoC9RJBAFoD9XFZB6by3CbxyQBcApgSGSc/cIYB/RA4JkCHEd YS5RH0r/EcAzEQdwGxE9IEJlHWEmoPcc4T1hA2BwJRAhdDWwHXDvBbEKsCNACYAsJ8Ao8DhQ/ycQ IjAbACQQRLIhkgIQPLH/MTUwcRGwSZEsMB4xK+BDyP869h3TG1ACQEIRHfEDkScQ3x7wJQBKJBtQ CsFzHeAFQP51HlEf0S8BIYMKwDcAIPL/PgMDEAMgPKAsgAGgKnEbIP8KwCKRJ8AH0R+QB+AzckKh /0OyDcEVoU0hJKEdkkmBKNIrI/Abp0xIgXIbm1J55QORVCGhUmU3ACoRBbBBCotsaTE4MALRafAt MTQ0DfAM0FjjC1m8MTYKoANgHvArgS1bB68Kh1m7DDBahkYDYTpcDpdahgyCIGB3H5ByLQNQYwng GyMtZGk3MBsgQN0AwGoFsCwgBGAuAhAo8AVHQS4FsGdbU01U3FA6X89g32HoXVuvXL2fBmACMF3v XvtdoGlkMBA/SBAGYAUwTaAcwAXAMjYBSBAxOTk3IDQ69DUwHsBNZb9cvSxwZ/8/XvtjT2RfYkJr /2bOdWKealrBbh9pDXAVIERwo4QgVhrAIzIyNAqF+Vd9MzZZhxQiDAFahgqFf3avfJZp1mrwaklr MxwCVrMG8E/xIDAawHTATk/we2qzeA5JNiId8QQBClA6L3gtX4JW4HTAW2/3XSDuQlbwC4BjAS6C n4OvhL1bheoD4XJYQB1hKwewWruE74X5RDAQRoAdIG0dUvJNQfFzLoxQiY+Kn4uvv4y/hiZYQByR OEAAkGMdgP5jJOIAcAdxAjCPj5Cfka//kr+Tz5Tfle+W/5gPmR+aL3+bP5xJCoUGYDECKtEf0W// L2AhknCUVAMLgEmBAMAhIus2AjfAYgTyYjA1SUNwBv8KhQWxb/4qkQMQHVJYQBsg/49AeCxbCKk/ qk+rX1seeyctXcJFBRCe0DwGcWNApx+QJyADcGkuJOE+CoWvjkAe8HTAVqB1fYE1akIDaySAMDo0 MzowOA1a8DBroGuwKENEVP4poDZ0ZoWvhr0KhSGTC3H3PaMwUSlyeQhgUHQywSuz1yWxafAcoGsp EGuBoQOg/2/3TQIlkkdxCoUWALpjKzL/A2ADIKFlYhIcAEYTt4I5we5lI2JRwBHwchyQSBC3gf4n HaEjQDfRKnFH0QqFuJv/MHE3MEJUR0JC0UIRu7ZUEv9RwEAzUWEdoQWxBGAckTBw/wqFUWS3gbsh OFC80UKwxhL7j1EhknEKUBsgowIEAEgQ/70HUWS5Ah1SK8BIECwgB5D/v8ZCUU9DSlEDcCGyJKHB 9L/FU7u1SBAFsRtQBBA/HADvL1G3gjiANiFhLcBRsczC97XXA5ElEHJR4CuBvjMfs/5iHUNOosIL I0HI4ripSBD9IZFuyZcfER9wNEIgUFFk/T8wcsjDo0LKwsODj0DNEvtIEDEwdyJQVWHTxFHAIvH/ UWGcZzWwAkBMIiBQLcCxEf3Bd3C+g1IRIWIwgdURNgT/IeC45tWzywKPdjEwPTEd03kdEGxwx3Ef wtljyJUh73gsrqJ4LAqFT1aCsKxIEBpWB0B1BmEckS0gS/UJ8G4bAFoiMEHwJCBakv2CHT4a0R2g MtEdoOW35bfvLYE6kFIipDVzI6BRkizivz+CHVNMwcIBIXRrUCc7APsFsDQRQxHAJQA4sh3g3lD7 j3bmIFMgUD6ggSE/iSLy/yEBHjAlM6NCB3ALUBsA2WL/tvRJYmHzuVIhkeW3PrHR1f8HQCHTGyCu USpiuJq80e11/1DRCcEEENrUIZIjo+W3RhH/JKFAsQOR19IFkB9hHJDvgue5ER5lAdAtM2uw1CLW Uv5IYuAdgA2wBTFOgD9DJBD/HMDxWFAxuKocwEmCJAHEE/82EiBQo+AsQEIS0EJMtLbT/8zyJBBR 4CIw5bdYQM4BJBH/P0MA0/4CHKBCARsBBGAo8L8r4Pz1xBHVRI9Q2CB55bf/OcE4IS8BOJS80ebf JAHB8//YAilFIdOhZbtBVxER4B0B/1OiJKHtMhzAzWBC4jax1wH/zGDlt9bX5/M3wCShKWOBdP+i kT8lHMAfkCfQUaIVkAiD5yNAUhE9IGh5HvDsXM8C//QiBh/lqOQjEj4UP6hvFr/brQ9d0VMe8ByR RzQBarHtHXA80HAnEEBh2a+vsL1oMTozsdA1d8CyIDffWICy37PvtP9ygkF68L8z90gQ5CPaVGtU UOhhCOJ8QP8xcUKwfyA4onTA+IMrs39B59cCM9DW8GVr3nOA1r7S283jzWIipDU8MHh2MAsT/iK8 0VahoyEvYEDRB5C+cf8+UjfCDHG+0k4xP7ByVc1i9/XB3OF/kC0vMOZAAvDeILpoPuBI5qAvYLkA ZKHQ3/+AK+OfztCA+PBzIbIrk/87sVRQo2M8EEhQMcFUEum1/9WyUmE+Ma8QAvDNYUgQhsD/P7HN Yb/G+mA1AVQS/1QNJv8KgD2lzWZxUN50Mra4grvg7nV68AWhj3ZZvrFTo46BzmRD0TkTVBIxLX2B OhH5/qIzLfpQymC5mMQS15D/FzDH5KCw6CDEZz+TxVO5BH/+osJWcVBi8COCafC80Ub/NBPb0qFh t4NJ0DVFASEpoPfYVr3A8lFmWEBGsNgh3nH/IWyeMw+icpF/Qf6iCBDXkP+5AvVhJIYboKA22BFJ gT/A/xSsVqInw/zw8sG21dSA6bX/xVM/QlDQ+CAbod3AI8CiUl/XkAOg+mBhsHzAR8FBVP+uUbkw pTahdE0A+lH84L9w9eQkUxwAbFNhPCH+otsz78VTMgA1MuTwdSNQ11EodP/dwE0a8PQJxcYAxSGh YbqD38IR3nShYM+AwvJnxkDKYP/04+gRoWIaIHnwLWIUrHzAPxkTFK8VT1p/F2+tqCJMIFlOVE9O oJBURUBQSEVOUyKugFMBa1AwOTY1MkBq957wcpD+oWGvYPgg/mBhsAOiwFFxRURVLkFVDxscadF9 hmskMTU6Mpo4sbAyrjBdwC0xHd/nh/+JDXJVSGnycLtiC2b/gNYilA7RQdHOIc+A+jB9Uf/cUXnw w1Hd02kicuDywaHQt6OgvxD1UmL5AQEgar8Q/3sHMgDugPVkOuJpZP9UUZXvjoHGAO4Q5/FzRgL4 07rX+wxBv6AtZWc7xLoxCANBs//wYojznMD48DaBPzDyQmvx//8RQtAEVmVjaqEosgEg+mD/X6Dq c9SAuBHos2Vy9bMC0f/CIVCx3nQJUOpjuFCchelU98MRf9RWU2kQOLXWyWC+IV8O4OYg3ZAo4PkB W/pgeHcfwHzjtqEoZWMsIH12cxuOoKGwY0LhHxB4YmR7H8B9cWwfwJ/NaiV2Aie/nmHwcHPS+PII A65DV2og/mRToUWDeQXOML0AZYVwbP9lVMeC+JAC8PdEBbDzUqbg/yABMeEBVMZA22ACUykgGYD9 VwZCgwO6ETOxD1TyQ4Yc/ymSvhIO4BoheDLPA2lhVrH/7BBYxn5Qw5IsIMLUxBO6Mf9vIb9S9iH3 AccBLXJIsWqS//rTU6YCIQDTeZb3kOTwzOD2LfjgOZFlxtBLUc5Q7oB3KOLOMOvQeHtAfJK80Vf/ CBJVYW8h/AEzsbzR7QBFIL+UYpyFnEIFoeqD+/FTKSB/6jAbgUxBb1I19E30jHhg79BwORHQJHSD J5g2O9GXgv8M8b9h3dOToDvi9cJQssLU/0ERugHoQqShjnHYwTIxKPL9GiB6BFZSBJZGiKmQdd5Q vnkyMNSAujGbwXDfYpUR/8IRnPbkAOQAANPOMJs0a/L/uEOFBVLJ6WPos68AMpD89f930/xAe2d/ o381fil9xxQB/ijwsPigLCDo8K3kf6JIWO8JxWlkeBT+MHqTsANUO/H/hxQpIQ5TuAEx0OU9HuCl Lv90jawffnx9D3+fs99lhYUjv7Xvtv99uLi/uc/+8GNXBs5FDEHt1HsiZD/hP84w3y1QVRKVIm2A 69Bjx4KWkr/449u0CTBp4VQhZhAh35b+QzvR7oElQN3g6jDyQhxQ//ekEYAZoD8QZWEyITvx/qK6 YOizb/ig6xDH1jFiAP+8NsiFpEDrwKtRepDcsPHw/9oA+cNIwPvykfLrUn+gKaD30vK4QfLAdVUQ M/N1BjeQ/6iCAqDmoSkSx4L0Qu4T7pF78sAykEFsYRogP6APACj/9uZEcq1g3fHwsLGBN+dIwv9/ oNvR8sHSeP5gxHLOBGlBtzejcjRRFFD+8OmBSS7g7+wQL8CTdS1QZP5hLTBVkP/0QWYQkDIysfJC D5GVkWsR/5FkTzA7MHlSD4DfACUDMcH5Vw1Mee6ABbBZT9/fW2//XHwbkFbA5lATQFYRB4BeQa9W AQVgaiHcYWmmEUD6wHp0iDBpidAFEWDPYd0wx2MAHUBh8VBEVB3vHv25G5B5ZG8hYCDyUU070vsE EFcNPuxhgjTH0fAkI7D/sYAlQPCw5TD1g3xxa/L0k/8x0MHSQHCVAXlSEFfscuv7/nQvwfdgj1D1 YQ7Aa6DXgv/+onlwL8H1wtQyiEJzgJOhefpQb3iGF8z08D/2JkH/IrB4I4mi/cGQI/Pf9WYF+PPw zz1jbicO4AURJODc0d2fhG5/YjQCDtF5liMEMf0wEWfNMQWTwrb6zwA6YyDeSFEwKtbw0AIfPrrT AfgBBD5SRVZFUkdF/5Jhc9Hx8ffya/KPMSQwSdR+SkBg2FERgIdy/JRGQyIAQ0FSTklGRVj/KGAE PvHDVWH9UGWQRFGJEe9zYygQVCFGQ3SjEAHDxzD9zoB3aUFpQWAQPlQvIIOg6zvxk3VwMbBwKBAS xnbSD5cBLKAEPwK1WUVBSP/GsMa3EY8BuyX2QLXTQlQh7lS/EEHgIkMnPpHQwmjx/kOeYD+g0cLH MJOwVsBVIPZ4Vw0ZvF8bDxwfHS8dUO+TdUzCOHHDgFBLRDogXODvJXBjMOUSRrEgGdDOgGogCFxm MyEwczIwXPBjZjFcsqAZ0NgQMKA56QBcbDWARXGcsHA66C8vdyNwLuTpIN0iNX9ZPybP4O9cbIOA MdBJcUO2cjEwh0E8oXAqYkDSsetCgNhALuSQbeVf5m9iUIA0OjU2OjEzpxD4MDQwY5/pT+pf62/3 X//4b/l/MtQyp/vf/O/9//8MNZN1XAcwYm+AaUAiRr/tks0hXkDQwJwCUNFhb9Dsbj/NdUBwZQ5R bYGy4feqEo/wSXFhQwDYEEsxS3HBjqZJTUhPKaqBm5D/RhFvYWoQMWDOgAuiOMJ2sN9x41cNpwEo hinVTfogKkSXLDZKwKLQbeagTkPmoPhVU0E7ViDvIf8jCTFhz4QAP+FW4SvxL34voCpTWyRvJXtI 7wJzIXTt8Gf/hvHlMMkR3FJDHlAvJ9/h75/i/+QP5R8sv2JkMjousPw6My6A6B8v39OTj+CLYf+D sF8QVdGToI5QmKKAvR+w7YJhd0jys11OvxCoMtDR/xYCf1CeMpaS0NPMcKpgeXD/n5BpQFsBPiFZ MDFgioPNAP9a9W9hvDbOkapgH7AHIQ+g29QRWWBh21ANgUTzYZVg/8Qh1qGa0J5g2EGOMIBheXD/ OgCcUjNBYBNHkTmAYPFi15+N8cQQn5B2sGSwcyc9wHg6LSkU/V1heXCzTkR/zUDEsGOi1SKcoIxB QeFl/59hrmCwIYqEpjGhMl0T82H/jyEfsJii5qCeY3QhJbeecf8zQJMQzUALMJTxiuD6IJZw/9NC msEWQJqwjVCgYKoSpcFfbWPRIMQAn5BhoXk9wFPxQOBVTERgE5g2WxOy4f+aU2NkzrF0VXJR0MKy 4c+B/4HAmSGa0GdCDLWqIn9iz8b/xcDNQMK91RJv1J5w5qBOBf/0I2Bm14KEUq5glMHcYoHA/5KQ R7FmsQ5CsdEZl6oSOYD/k7DNUa/hjDF/JD+xmhE4Ef//QMyAPZH04LKgyZGVYYJR/5KQ0KH/QJ5g uFA+oZg2R7H/ftOP0DCw08BnJKXSjjCeEP1xkUxayKZQ2wAfoQswMED/l8CqA38iZVN1B9BRPqTD 8LpzMFBnk7CmUE8uSSBQ73zBqvKecVmQQWc1qEH/QP+e9M4kRlHEsP8xg/GyAahj92K3OeDb0C1U UdsAbvH/If/QwE32mTTFwLryrdIxYJwx/80AcaGykxYCjmEHUJ5Ej8X/NALc0T6hpdGmMH5AZlXQ we5voGAX4akhZpygnfHc8v/EYPHxotCl4AdzqiKDYhmm86rCA+EoIqm00MHOwZ5ilZ5xRgWwRTCD Iik9wP5PjVGTd1+XqVSfQA8XZWL/iaOhQTigfRfs0TVAcVCFAf8Ncaqg0jCW0Hg0jHONBZZjf8Vg GEAIAXA28dJkccK9S/9bMAwUkVjuUDBQyHCKwlr0/+agycIMEKVvcOFayI/GcfL/xAdcAX1xzULV EnPC73Fvof/QgYNimwJy8RDQ2JLXwxDB9zBQGT9WNEuun7CvGo+zL/+0Px2/Hs8f30efSK8jDyQf v0yfT6++31HPKWVdFEcz0JfI8APxVDBicpB0QE4FWi45IGdWD1cfNS4gNPoxLpE3Lt9Zr1q/W8+P 8i5BvVBX89hgTcXkIDl6L+fgL+dQ5qBTW11sPv+lT6Zfp2+of8iiAqaqT6tfd6xvrX9DHUaRdTBH 1TQi/Q+gcnPCOeBtUYNTCeDcID/xwDQyFtHHAAuxOKBoef/CcJLhoSANEDBg3saY0g0S/9P2FfPJ gv8hQx090MFzsV9/va/in7/PKTgYsKQwlkBar21BlEAqsOVyQCnwdFXR7mlVz8RPysA1LmAuUVdA 1S6gNcuRKGSwVGlmxr//x8/I32r7zGuCUzhSDOF45/9VEWNhQqE54GRwVMCEAOtA/za4jA+NH44v jz4AEJA/kU//kl+Tb5R5ABCVL5Y/l0+YX/8ymJnvmv+cD50fniozEJ7vf5//oQ+iH6MpMxCj34/U PF+4f7mPupZzsDvgLsLJL8uQAPdAYzCwLTG7QFVwrw4BvC+9MudGIDIIVyti371QgyH4VV3GFXdN VKDtoA51KaENgHzwKDAuNzfF0Ppg2kFzaWYViGF4xxZExhAWwTIuNC3wF03vMg//4f5Q+rJnM1Bj 0G7Sv5lB3bBUgHHgfNHEgCdyIP1kAXM38fNB/7M+EdVC9z9Pj8U3YndBFBI/J+D8dz8zcOB9RALl X+ZvFTZTefNu4D5iQWQxYW+g1yD30NU5ISq28W9UUW1T8Re4oE5FVENPy0BJb1D/ceDbkeyB4W8r j+OPwKs6ILFTcGxqQIeA8gAu7cD6Z6MSLjgw7cDfEFTgX3DmKOrgLqEgSlNhaWbnz6VXlThYEjAy xeE06fL+RepP61/sb+1/ylQ3AWiw/x6jhEDBfPIo8jfKr8u/zM//8nPOD88f0C/RP9JL0v/UD//V H9Yv1zg62dhP2V/ab9t//9yMBhHdf96POsjKNgqQgID9drFi/oAE9UZjRHZtUYUx/4Xm/+h38f/T j/BjYH2SCfH/j8X90NIRgyH/4oqgeZEJ8v+F5h5IVZZfkO/hV4VlATbA/YewbEWBakCPxohBlCFB 4/+i8FKxHkA3AAnFu1BBwCRBN2dGY9BB0yI48IWgcyLfhCIIQL1QY0D9wHOZdogi/1rqRbJa5nIR ZAFmxJ4wJrD/QZBw0P3wIqEFAgT5CfBwNv5uNZAqInYBJ9FzsP/TX1L9niNqC5Btk9cRNsACAExB /lmH4f/h/VFEQY/xFEP/4fePxVfyQURJIORe0YKRX1N/BmAmsIWwgzCFMV00TEFI/wix+UHEgGtg U8CFsI/FRHf/TSJc4/hZ/lBrYGLQXMsa0f/+MgHBf1JXlLdQeYCPxX0Uv31RB6LvsDTxW2KPxVwc 4P5ia1ELoPMlcmJ5RmOB+MT7+FZnsGQIQGxxBIFjLSI4/2RWQZNGNFR3CRKpVlWlNpTPe/+PxXuE TEFNb2fRCmD/goBNIMSAZrX+cP3AQFBc8d/zAvtxNpR8KV5ULJS2WvbvjzGBstcACmB6SqEvIBgQ /kJdASKgHwJs4UyD89X8ofs2lFWSbYBiafCjZ1KEZ7PvXhI3Evwx/xIo7wBBQQG0+2LA5RBwxIAn 0S7w8dDXAP8LoGZzS6CM1PMA3PmP8FQR/1eFNpSH0loy/HFVkkaQe4T/YwFTAGxSZlFm4wSBBsKp 1f2B5SmqM4KfXlQDgHETeWL/bnJdIQcBZeD50ETSBLap1f94tYUj9XBBwPxikeSNAYqY/0xBAwB0 8VsxTSEioXbzaUP7c6dLoXIlQLqA9hNjMGRi/3TVaeJ4skHj9fFswGiSlaf/whAKYMGS+NJWxgeT NwoucP9d4PpywhD9pPFRVZJKKIHl/1tidVd1eqafp1YwdMnNCgH/wXNHA0RBIPPCEBwBDNA3kXeS c/BAhXFk9fHzUAaRSf/EgEshXTD4EYDiIPN5YXOl/6sT8wABwTXB8VHzAFKE+rL/lcV2UlgRrAH9 4EHkHOAIEF5yFmBp4PlB/9Jt11ZQ/zYAJCGBA7BJgKJO1KwTZnL/RDJ5Yq8biXO88PEh3Pku8P82 AD5AikMJ8u+wRDILkPqi/yKCFiFZcHVIKv+8vy0fwR/fwi/DPzHv6SMzEDIzcsYf7zUvNj83T8pW MzvfPOMweO8+DZWvlr/gdj6YT5lfmm9/m3/N9Jzfne+e/6APoRg+/6G/os+j36Tn4PxFsPfQC2H/ QiHzAowwFiH1kEFELvDdEf/+EIDR8XL9UR+wsQH2E/qxd4YViKBpcmWMMMXQc6Uoh3jw0ReR5UlG QUKTsP848ARw305rYPMA96FF0Pqy/wnyAUL6sPMRbMALoCI29iL/J4H1kFmA3WWRw9p5DfBo4vk5 UGpvduUlcSdAR4FIYP9h5BJBF3FgdvtxcAEKYNNS+5HlCMBiQ2C5EQTRDM8N3/8O7w/2EV8SZL4N VaVAZEFBj1fwr8Li0lOBZG4nAGCfX0CMIf/TD/D9wCI7ITH94yJjC5ALoAoRVqcBQAIA/nXB0Qjh 6dH7cC6AV2NC+P9BRJAQLvBTYtEhVkPpQf22/0xChuLreBxwfGbo4blgv+D/JXEAAQaCBvKyMbKS Q2Bioe/5U24yrdXq8mLF0HOWLvC/D/CCEV8ghwHggtudQVtQvzlQVZb0RlTyeLW3YXH5gP8mwFZT REFLEK9Rx2EgE1+g/3i1vedpF3lhgQHoIWYRwlD/0v3e49Pv1PgiNtW0RbJ3pOfitEXj7vBhLUng 95LU9t5zJrNMki7wQ2Bn01HCUP94tFu2REGK0E0h0v3RA2Jh/3aCWXBhxgdPeNOcOBMzXUH/L8A9 YNN1TuNlECSwkpJWMf8RwFjDQIEXAlcwWNIUhjjwf8dRVkJgdiPDjWH4oDjzIl+IoLKg2MP6o0NS IsJQIv5mVzBAkKzxR2ClMUFEJ5HvsqD2wEFDc6UiBgCRcWKhf0tSTDNiwfWyFQIksGkSJ/8TArKh VzD68fSSazMiyocA/9zACMd4AXfwQKCQhXizj9f/zVNB0bXhagBgMtuda2BbQb98siWmWPOGg0aQ eWAtsaH/LnCHAPix+6WQE97y6OQr8v+BsbdhksZVNP8UiyDFZ0xB7E9i5LDlEHOA4vcBk5D/QMFZ AujUUoQqkoQWMUhZp/9VQ0AzkBAu4q0CS1wgFIfh/1MAhwHNqE+BxdAfAsV2HvH/9wFgMPWy2YHp QHFAjBDGwP+K0GKQrvJU4YBg6MVh1VUw/mk4EYQX6bS6cETD9TPo5H9H0vv2jNKtUQGhReDF0Hj8 aWLO0IcA0YLO0OEmR3L/xwACk+lBG/G6cEXR7fDTQb9WMGHTeAF3UE2wbjEnXDD/eWKTkOsyu4DO 0Llgx0Dt0P9YsiYqPi/o5NOTr1F08vvS/8YaQ6X24FKiW6YjJPdg8AD/WWLGGXAC/BDpQF/xDAIR Uts7RoAhUFMAd/BwaPPFcOfcwnOl6jBkZNrh30DlEP/eANudpXG/Q7tMu09VT71v3XOlRSjkvuDa lkQRsMWRoCBWMSAjw5A0c6X+KlpPWyvbrXFA+XDtMIzA90FAJ9PFZy3jMFkSwlAWEf/49OoC3fHL FnV6XUheHlRMe3blb/BkknQ34UXxJ8Qi3E1h6XD0gMbwb8CKImD7x515UW5epeGQ4zD0QeBh/e3w bJOw/+PiYT3zEVHX4P+AcRFRKpOq0GlxQLL24OlA/y8mXVrNU5OAtxG10MJQxXD/7dGO4TloXqUI EOmZIPh2AP8d4d+EOWn8lOUDqpGssN3w/w0jxWDG8OgBgXEPkT3loUf/gHF8pQvjwlC0UoUjMhNd 4r89QIBxqIBdSLpS95BsiQb/dFOOg8VwNDNpttXiaiEL8+539HEf8elBc9ORrLF++/3FcGcPwdpR dPK0JCPCR/X/4jhetrRSd8ZfMo4ZX8+mSP94qmIfYM+Fa2MfZC9lP2ZPF1P/pnGckWTvkGkzNlvy Qe3kMvIPnJJ9nGAAAZDQAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAAQAAHMEDffmQIzbwBQAAIMEDffmQIzbwB HgA9AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAACLJ ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCCCCF.06A4EE20-- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 29 19:24:00 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01972 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:23:54 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01968 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:23:52 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1965) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01963 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:23:51 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.196] (brat_196.bayarea.net [205.219.91.196]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02276 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:23:52 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BCCCCF.05A187E0@hil-101-78.Reshall.Berkeley.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:24:37 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Lets clear some shit up Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:58 AM -0700 9/29/97, Ryan Mulroney wrote: > I've been hearing all this crap about Pete's routine and yet no one >has mentioned the most relevant and conclusive point. Actually, you do sort of open a can of worms, Ryan, since the real argument wasn't about Pete's particular routine but about the fairness of allowing live music in general. I think we're all agreed nobody wants to attack any specific individual in these discussions. So we were talking in generalities about this stuff instead of breaking down the particular routine that instigated the conversation. (But you're certainly entitled to say whatever you want, I am just adding some context that may have been lost in the back-and-forth discussions so far.) So now we kind of have two related discussions going. One is about music in general, the other is about Pete's diggery-doo routine at Worlds. >While Pete's routine was pretty dope I do think it was unfair. It would >have been nice if I could have looked over at the sound man during my >routine and had him stop the song when I dropped the bag or paused, >fotunately I had the forethought to choreograph my routine. I see where you're coming from, but in Pete's defense, he is a master choreographer, and where you don't believe he choreographed the routine he performed to the diggery-doo at Worlds, I think he deserves some benefit of the doubt. According to Pete (who can't easily defend himself on this list, but whom I talked to about this several times, including yesterday), he definitely planned the routine out in advance, and worked for a long time beforehand with Toby to come up with every change and cue in the music. Yesterday, Pete said, "It's a presentation sport." And more importantly, he said, "It's a *live* performance, so why shouldn't the music be live as well?" I think he's right in many ways. If he inspires you to go out and get your own live percussion to add to the quality of the presentation in front of a large audience, he's done good for the sport. I do certainly agree, however, that we need guidelines that make it so that one player with live music doesn't overly or unfairly distract from the technical aspects of the competition or otherwise burden the event -- i.e., they can't take too much time to set up the live music, and they can't require anything extra over whatever facilities are provided for the other players (such as the official PA system, etc.). This stuff isn't all written down, but it probably should be. But again, I'll raise a somewhat higher-level issue: what is freestyle competition? What do you (on both sides of this issue) really see as the goal of organized freestyle competition? I don't mean, why do you think we should have it. I mean, today, in your minds, what is the real reason we're doing this? Why do a bunch of athletic guys and gals who love freestyle footbag as a circle- and solo-skooling-self-improvement activity, get together in front of a panel of judges and an audience at the World Championships to perform choreographed routines of their moves in a timed competition format? Get back to me on that one. :-) I think herein lies the difference of opinion. I also think I like a lot of Scott Davidson's ideas for a completely technical competition which is separate and different from the current presentation-oriented competition, but I may be getting ahead of myself. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 29 19:47:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02095 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:47:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02090 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:47:51 GMT Received: from scalf@utdallas.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2087) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02084 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:47:46 GMT Received: from utdallas.edu (utdallas.edu [129.110.10.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02850 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:47:47 -0700 Received: from apache.utdallas.edu (scalf@apache.utdallas.edu [129.110.16.9]) by utdallas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20659 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:47:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (scalf@localhost) by apache.utdallas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA11782 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:47:18 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: apache.utdallas.edu: scalf owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:47:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Derric Scalf To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] live music. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well, I've been watching this debate go on for a while, so I think I'll go ahead and get in it. Footbag freestyle to me is more of an art than a competitive sport. Don't get me wrong, I would really love to win something, or at least make it to the second rounds, but I would enjoy being respected as a great kicker even more. Now that my philosophy of kicking is out of the way, Yes. I think live music should be allowed. It does enhance the performance. Isn't this the point of freestyle? To put on the best show? I think judges should take everything into account when they judge. Whether the music is playing to the performer or the other way around. If people don't think it is possible for the judges to be fair and create that "level playing surface", then maybe we should start that shred competition that was being tossed around in here a while back. Most other artistic sports, like gymnastics and figure skating, have more than one round. They have a set routine to set music that everyone has to do, and then they have a routine that they just make up. I don't think this would be needed, but then again, I think that the judges can deal with live music.... Just my thoughts. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 29 20:14:23 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02398 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 20:14:17 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02393 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 20:14:14 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2390) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02388 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 20:14:13 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA03295 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 13:14:14 -0700 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id xa068221 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:22:55 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Lets clear some shit up Message-Id: <000000337592958409021@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:17:01 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.5 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, Sep 29, 1997, 2:24:37 PM US CST Steve Goldberg wrote: >goal of organized freestyle competition? I don't mean, why do you think we >should have it. I mean, today, in your minds, what is the real reason 1) To be seen (I think everyone should get to enjoy my footbag playing as much as I do ;) 2) (Hopefully) To win / score highly and have some 'proof' that others like / enjoy my footbag playing. I play my best to live music, ala at concerts and such, when the musicians don't know / don't care that I am kicking, and certainly don't follow me. The challenge for me to follow the music - live and improvised - usually brings out the best in my kicking. My motivation for having live music is certainly to I play better, but as an internal stimulus, not so the music could follow me. As for kickers who use live music for the latter purpose? I believe I can tell the difference. I think its lame, and if I am a competitor, I am a judge, too. If you want to make sure live music doesn't skew the results, sign up to be a presentation judge and make the call yourself. I know this doesn't help when you are in the same pool as someone who might be exploiting the opportunity. But there are obviously several of you out there that have similar feelings. Getting yourselves on the appropriate judging panel would inspire other players to make sure there is not even any hint of impropriety. -- Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 29 22:40:48 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03789 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:40:40 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03784 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:40:39 GMT Received: from scalf@utdallas.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3781) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03779 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:40:39 GMT Received: from utdallas.edu (utdallas.edu [129.110.10.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05816 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:40:42 -0700 Received: from apache.utdallas.edu (scalf@apache.utdallas.edu [129.110.16.9]) by utdallas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07003 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:40:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (scalf@localhost) by apache.utdallas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA26445 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:40:26 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: apache.utdallas.edu: scalf owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:40:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Derric Scalf To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Ryan Mulroney... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If anyone out there thinks that Ryan Muloney is a slacker, check out his semi-final worlds routine. Yes, it is online! Kinda big. And kinda dark. We're going to rescan it if I ever recharge the batteries. Anyway, go to http://www.dallasfootbag.org Then, check out the multimedia link. This is the first of many cool clips we're going to put up there. I'll let you know when we get the next batch. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 29 23:41:27 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04271 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:41:18 GMT Received: from admin@callplus.co.nz () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4095) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04093 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:13:15 GMT Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (mail.callplus.co.nz [203.98.15.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06256; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:13:15 -0700 Received: by mail.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:13:03 +1200 Message-ID: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C04BBA0@mail.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: Steve Goldberg Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Lets clear some shit up Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:13:01 +1200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok gang, heres the solution to all your problems: 1) Disallow Live music for Individual freestyle 2) rename Doubles freestyle back to "Team freestyle" 3) Allow live music for team freestyle Steve sed: >According to Pete (who can't easily defend himself on this > >list, but whom I talked to about this several times, including > >yesterday), > >he definitely planned the routine out in advance, and worked for a > long > >time beforehand with Toby to come up with every change and cue in > >the music. Besides, how many other people work long and hard with someone else training for Individual? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 30 02:18:04 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05382 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 02:17:47 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05378 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 02:17:45 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5375) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA05373 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 02:17:44 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F56.hotmail.com [207.82.250.142]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA08953 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:17:49 -0700 Received: (qmail 29796 invoked by uid 0); 30 Sep 1997 02:17:48 -0000 Message-ID: <19970930021748.29795.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.196.104.251 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:17:47 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.196.104.251] From: "Josh Penney" To: freestyle@footbag.org, scalf@utdallas.edu Subject: [freestyle] Re: Bony Mulroney... Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:17:47 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >If anyone out there thinks that Ryan Muloney is a slacker, check out his >semi-final worlds routine. Yes, it is online! Kinda big. D saying that this is big is like calling a wookie 'sorta hairy' or like calling Derrick Fogle 'kinda funny'. It is also akin to saying that liquid helium is 'sorta frosty', or maybe it's more like saying that 37 tequilla shots will get you 'slightly buzzed.' I didn't really mean "big" in terms of data, I meant it's big in terms of disgusting-wish you could hit-it-ness. Okay, enough analogy, the sucker is awesome!!! Everyone out there should take the time to go to this page-- http://www.dallasfootbag.org and download the routine that Rick Reese himself was heard to comment after seeing in person, "that's probably the best freestyle routine *ever*. Thanks to Scalfie for putting this thing online so I could watch it again without waiting for SOMEone to wake up and send me a video (you know who you are - I want my space modulator, too.) To Bony Mulroney - you are the man, but I still want that shirt I asked your mom for. Somebody put that lady in charge of Bony Mulroney merchandise. get yer Bony socks, bony t-shirts, lunch boxes with the "official Bony Mulroney" thermos, and let's not forget them bright orange 'Regulator' shorts. JP ps. I get first dibs on the lunch boxes. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 30 15:23:15 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00430 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 15:21:35 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00426 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 15:21:33 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (423) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00421 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 15:21:32 GMT Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.70.137]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA04646 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:21:27 -0700 Received: from rac7.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac7.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.147]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA21194; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:20:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac7.wam.umd.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA20887; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:20:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:20:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709301520.LAA20887@rac7.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org, regul8tr@uclink4.berkeley.edu Subject: [freestyle] regulating Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Instig8r, I read all that carping about the Executioner’s routine and yet you seem to ignore the root of his name: possessor of 6 (7?) dropless World’s routines. In general the discussion on the list has been very respectful of the issue. Which is how to handle live music in the future. But the bullshit about it being unfair that Pete and Toby played together is strictly what it smells like. And sounds like. Or, at least, if there is reason for complaint about Peter Irishes performance and it being "Unfair?", then let’s hear it from Scott, or Eric, or Rick. Congratulations on being one of the true greats of footbag freestyle to hit dropless at worlds, Ryan. Hitting choreography that well deserves recognition. Don’t cheapen your efforts by whining about Pete. The Executioner became the Champion he is by doing what you have proven yourself capable of doing- Creating excellent choreography down to the last kick, and then hitting it hard when it counted most. Say, in finals. No Choreography in finals for Pete? Or even less need for choreography for Pete? He still hit what everyone seems to consider to have been the best routine. Less of a routine without Toby playing with him? They did practice, and they did choreograph segments. You made a good point, however- Toby could watch and make adjustments. As a new musician, I respect that much with regards to Toby. As a freestyler, I can see that it may? Ryan, Peter Irish has proved for more years than you have kicked that he is a Champion, so do not even think of disrespecting his accomplishments. You owe all the Champions respect and gratitude for what you apparently love to do. Use some forethought before you send your email. If you are upset about someone beating your choreography, then keep in mind that Pete can and does come up with World’s quality choreography in his sleep. I’ve even seen it, when he’s chosen to nap near some good routine music. He’s been doing it for a long time, so long that I doubt he needs to choreograph at all. I believe his 1994 first round was improvised, with 215 adds and ZERO drops. And if I’m not mistaken, Ken won that year on an improvised minute 45. Who has won worlds the last 7 years? Peter Irish, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1997. Ken Shults 1990, 1994. Rick Reese 1996. Go further back, and I think you find 1989 Ken, 1988 Rick, 1987 Ken, 1986 Andy Linder? But my history isn’t that excellent. I look forward to the day when you use forethought for the expression of your thoughts, and have no need for choreography, so you won’t feel so upset when it doesn’t work to win. Have a great day. - Procrastin8r - ps: Are you really so arrogant to believe you can end a discussion of ideas? Like you have all the ideas worth arguing? Like you have any ideas worth arguing? Try regulating some of that. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 30 17:29:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01571 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:28:47 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01567 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:28:45 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1564) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01562 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:28:44 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA06703 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:28:44 -0700 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id qa068786 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:38:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] regulating Message-Id: <000000340252958485494@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:31:34 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.5 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Sep 30, 1997, 10:20:55 AM US CST Procrastinator the VIIIth wrote: >Who has won worlds the last 7 years? >Peter Irish, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1997. Ken Shults 1990, 1994. Rick Reese >1996. >Go further back, and I think you find 1989 Ken, 1988 Rick, 1987 Ken, 1986 >Andy Linder? Just a side note: The "Down to 3rd Place" results for all National / World championships has been added to the 1998 IFAB Rulebook. You will have to wait for the edition to become available, but for you with an eye for history, it will be well worth it! -- Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 30 17:52:47 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01773 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:52:37 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01769 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:52:36 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1766) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01764 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:52:36 GMT Received: from [205.219.91.196] (sjc-ca5-14.ix.netcom.com [207.94.249.174]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07191; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:52:01 -0700 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709301520.LAA20887@rac7.wam.umd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:50:25 -0700 To: Procrastinator the VIIIth From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] regulating Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 8:20 AM -0700 9/30/97, Procrastinator the VIIIth wrote: >Don't cheapen your efforts by whining about Pete. This is the kind of language I've been trying to tell people is not appropriate on the footbag/freestyle lists. Direct personal attacks are not well-tolerated by me, the list administrator. Honest rhetoric (which is most likely what Vince intended above) is fine, as long as it doesn't get too personal. So please veer away from using words like "whine" when replying to other list members in public. It's fine if you want to send private mail and yell at someone; but try not to do it in public. Such messages can quickly degenerate into shouting matches and the other list members would not enjoy that (trust me, it's happened before). So if you're going to argue publically (which is fine), please do so in a civil way, making sure not to turn it into a public attempt to berate or humiliate any individual. (I know that can be hard sometimes!) I'm not accusing Vince or anyone of sinking to that level. I just want to make it clear this is a warning sign. No value judgment attached, and, no, I'm not taking sides (I defended Pete in the last message), but please understand that personal attacks or arguments are not acceptable on this list. Just doing my job. Steve P.S. To everyone: when a message you read gets your goat and you really feel you have to reply, consider replying with two messages -- one to the public, and one (with your true feelings!) directly to the recipient. In other words, create one reply to the whole list if you feel the urge to publically defend your side of an argument, and stick to the argument. But if you feel the urge to yell at the person who wrote the message to which your replying, do that yelling in a private message immediately following (or preceding) the public one. Many of you know I do this all the time. :-) I think there's a huge difference between personal communication and groupwise communication. It's like every time we send e-mail to the list, we're going up to a microphone in a large room filled with freestylers and making a speech. Realize that, and I think what should be private comments will stay mostly private. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 30 18:17:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA02068 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:17:22 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA02064 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:17:16 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2061) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA02059 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:17:14 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA07661 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:17:14 -0700 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id na068835 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:26:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] regulating Message-Id: <000000340942958488403@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:20:02 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.5 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu (Procrastinator the VIIIth), brat@footbag.org (Steve Goldberg) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Sep 30, 1997, 12:50:25 PM US CST Steve Goldberg wrote: >civil way, making sure not to turn it into a public attempt to berate or >humiliate any individual. (I know that can be hard sometimes!) Can we make an exception if the chicken-man wants to humiliate himself?!? Bock bock bock... -- Derrick