From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 1 07:16:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA04666 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 07:14:59 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA04661 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 07:14:56 GMT Received: from allman144@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4658) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.174]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA04654; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 07:14:55 GMT From: Allman144 Message-ID: <4b1737ea.34ab4253@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 02:14:25 EST To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org, freestyle-digest@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #290 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone. Santa brought me a new facile juice this past week! Last night I was kicking in my living room with my brother and he accidentally kicked it into the fireplace! Luckily, there was no fire at the time. So it got pretty grimy in all of those ashes. My question is, should I take any special care in cleaning it because it is faclie? Will washing it with cold water and hand soap do? Thanks for the help! Tony Glick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 1 07:19:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA04687 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 07:18:12 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA04683 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 07:18:11 GMT Received: from allman144@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4680) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.175]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA04678 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 07:18:10 GMT From: Allman144 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 02:17:50 EST To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #290 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone. Santa brought me a new facile juice this past week! Last night I was kicking in my living room with my brother and he accidentally kicked it into the fireplace! Luckily, there was no fire at the time. So it got pretty grimy in all of those ashes. My question is, should I take any special care in cleaning it because it is faclie? Will washing it with cold water and hand soap do? Thanks for the help! Tony Glick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 6 04:36:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA01593 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 04:34:32 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA01575 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 04:34:26 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1567) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA01565 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 04:34:23 GMT Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.167]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13297 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:03:27 -0800 From: StinKyKiwi Message-ID: Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:58:05 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] New bag Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Do any of yall have the new Hacky Sack Pro bag? If so, how good does it kick? Thanks, Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 6 15:57:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00845 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:55:45 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00841 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:55:44 GMT Received: from sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (838) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00836 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:55:43 GMT Received: from dept.english.upenn.edu (DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU [130.91.75.246]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA28241; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:55:43 -0800 Received: (from sunilj@localhost) by dept.english.upenn.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA90778; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:55:36 -0500 From: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani) Message-Id: <199801061555.KAA90778@dept.english.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] move name? To: brat@footbag.org (Steve Goldberg) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:55:35 -0500 (EST) Cc: eric@netcomi.com, freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: from "Steve Goldberg" at Dec 31, 97 10:20:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org According to Steve Goldberg: > > >there's a move that i've been doing for a very long time, and i wonder if > >it has a name. i started out by calling it "pixie drifter", which is flat > >wrong...then "toe drifter" which is close but still wrong i believe. the > >move is: toe > same in dex > same clip. i think that "pixie clipper" is > >correct but i was wondering if it has its own name. > > It's "drifter" from a toe set. > > Steve I beg to differ... drifter from toe set would be toe set > OP in dex > same clip... because a drifter is a miraging clipper, not a pixie clipper. The move Eric asked about should just be called pixie clipper. Whereas, toe set > same in dex > op clip should be called pixie same side clipper to distinguish it from the previous move. Sunil From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 6 16:03:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00997 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:03:02 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00992 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:03:00 GMT Received: from footbag13@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (989) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00986 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:03:00 GMT Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.167]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28345 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:03:00 -0800 From: Footbag13 Message-ID: <450fa82e.34b25438@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:56:38 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Sorry?! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Some thoughts...... Mom always taught me to be polite.... I think this might be a common unspoken rule...but just just in case everyonne's not familiar with it, here's what my little group of friends does. First off, the bag always proceeds around the circle in one direction (usually to the left). If you have a poor string, no string or anything that would indicate that you are not living up to your usual standards, it is the responsibilty of the next person recieving the bag to pass it back and give you another chance. You may get it back multiple times in a row or you may not get it back at all...all depending on how the next person judged your performance. This gives everyone an opportunity to do well and an incentive to do well the first time (so as not to hold up the circle for too long). Even someone who can only kick the bag 3 times before dropping will get the bag back if they only kick it once. I point out this system because this is how the people i kick with eliminate the need to say "sorry". A bad toss or pass usually results in a bad string or more comonly no string at all. As long as all of us toss "backs" when neccesary, there is no need for apologies because people usually get a second chance. It's something that's never really expected but even newcomers usually get the idea after seeing it a few times. So in other words...if the bag is moving clockwise around the circle, everyone is happy as long as kindness moves counterclockwise! :) Jason Phillips Ground Phlor Digs "DIG" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 6 19:25:50 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02898 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:25:49 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02893 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:25:46 GMT Received: from klein@proscape.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2890) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02888 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:25:37 GMT Received: from proxyserv.proscape.com (mail.proscape.com [205.147.246.8]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA32052 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:25:36 -0800 Received: by proxyserv.proscape.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BD1AAE.6F453480@proxyserv.proscape.com>; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:21:52 -0500 Message-ID: From: Ethan Klein To: "'Brian Jones'" Cc: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] RE: [footbag] clipper? help Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:21:52 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org To achieve the oft - elusive clipper delay. Learn inside kicks. Learn inside delays. Practice inside delays. Watch the video. Try and practice clipper delays. Practice clipper delays (BOTH SIDES!!), watch the video, practice clipper delays, stay OVER the bag, practice clipper delays, practice, have fun with clipper delays, practice, think about clipper delays, practice, practice clipper delays, practice clipper delays, and finally.... Practice clipper delays. Good luck! I know it's a lot of practice, but the rewards prove astronomical!!!!! Ethan -----Original Message----- From: Brian Jones [SMTP:jonebc00@uleth.ca] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 2:03 PM To: footbag@footbag.org Subject: [footbag] clipper? help well I too am new to this sport and have seen those awesome movies and want to know how to achieve that clipper stall/delay. Any tips are appreciated! Brian From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 6 20:14:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03758 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:13:54 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03754 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:13:52 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3751) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA03749 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:13:52 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA00129 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:13:54 -0800 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.03.0014/4c.adoc) with ESMTP id ga134998 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:23:07 -0600 Subject: [freestyle] Fwd: Re: Footbag judging Message-Id: <000000507512966962754@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 14:19:13 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.8 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org (Freestyle Listserve) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org An unspecified number of IFAB members have received a post similar to this regarding some proposed changes in the freestyle system. I think they are worth consideration, and got the OK from Andrew to pass them on to the freestyle list for open discussion. ------Begin Forwarded Material-------- On Tue, Jan 6, 1998, 1:24:34 PM US CST Andrew Feuerdrache wrote: As a freestyle competitor and observer at tournaments I have found the formula based judging system to be overly complicated and unbalanced. The alternate Ranked-Component judging system although far less complicated is by it's nature subjective. A player performing the same routine in the same way at two different tournaments may place differently depending not only on their competition but also on the judges opinions of what comprises a good routine. Also unlike the formula based system it doesn't ensure that many of the technical elements of a routine will be counted. For a system to be truly successful it needs to be consistent, predictable and easily understood by new players. Therefor I propose a simplified version of the formula based judging system. For the sake of space I have only outlined scoring for a singles routine. First I would no longer count drops, they are already counted against your add average and presentation scores, a third time would be redundant. Also I would no longer count raw adds (adds*multiplier) as part of the difficulty score. This comprises a very small part of the over all score and only serves to complicate the system. Average difficulty (adds/contacts) would then comprise the total difficulty score to a maximum of 3.5, a score that allows for player improvement. I would also simplify composition to award a tenth of a point for each unique move to a maximum of 3.5. You would also have to perform thirty five or so well chosen moves to have a high composition score under the old system. This also means that the composition score wouldn’t specifically ensure the variety of unusual surface, body, cross-body, dexterity and delay moves, which I have added to presentation, but it would allow far more possibilities for choreography and allow a larger variety a player styles. Lastly I would make presentation worth 3 possible points broken into three elements. I would combine Music and Movement and Floor, Planes & Travel to be Choreography, but still concerned with the same elements. Second I would combine Personality & Originality with General Form under the name General form. Thirdly I would include a concern for distribution of moves among the add elements (unusual surface, body, ect.) to Distribution and linking. In summary a “perfect” routine would have 10 points, a maximum of 3.5 awarded for difficulty, a maximum of 3.5 awarded for composition and 3 for presentation. This ensures a variety of moves, difficulty of routines and concern for artistry as with the original judging system but also simplifying the old system and adding to player flexibility. This system also wouldn't require as many judges making judging in small tournaments easier. As a final thought I would like to again say that the formula based judging system is far to complicated and needs to be changed, if not to this proposal then another to simplify it and allow for more flexibility and growth. I would appreciate any feedback. Andrew McCargar, Damocles_schwert@hotmail.com -------End Forwarded Material---------- --Derrick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 6 21:04:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA00530 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:03:38 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA00526 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:03:36 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (523) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA00521 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:03:36 GMT Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01063 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:03:35 -0800 From: StinKyKiwi Message-ID: <531ec66c.34b29b7e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:00:44 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Clipper Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org When I do a clipper I can not keep it under control. Please drop me a line if you can help! Thanks, Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 6 21:39:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA00868 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:39:45 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA00864 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:39:43 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (861) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA00859 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:39:40 GMT Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01612 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:39:39 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA01031; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:39:22 -0600 (CST) Received: from brat-2.atext.com(204.62.245.116) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma000961; Tue Jan 6 15:38:27 1998 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <531ec66c.34b29b7e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:36:40 -0800 To: StinKyKiwi From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Clipper Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Stinky wrote: >When I do a clipper I can not keep it under control. Please drop me a line if >you can help! Set the bag farther away from your body, and think of crossing with your support leg and doing an inside delay. DO THE MAGIC HOP -- hop off your support leg just at the last second so that you land as you're catching the bag with your clipper leg. Make a fist with your toes of your catching foot just before you make contact, HOLD THE BAG, and then push it straight back up. Stay on the balls of your support foot, never put your heel down. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 6 23:05:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA01849 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:05:42 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA01845 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:05:41 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1842) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA01840 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:05:40 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F68.hotmail.com [207.82.250.154]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA03382 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:05:41 -0800 Received: (qmail 10608 invoked by uid 0); 6 Jan 1998 23:05:40 -0000 Message-ID: <19980106230540.10607.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.196.104.190 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 06 Jan 1998 15:05:40 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.196.104.190] From: "The 'Mazin Josh Penney" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Sorry?! Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 15:05:40 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I learned of the 'again' in Philadelphia. I always thought before then you got "one chance, don't mess up" Great thanks to those guys... Even though I will occaisonally make a pass that's so bad I get it *again*. JP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 7 04:04:19 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA04662 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:04:19 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA04658 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:04:18 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4655) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA04653 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:04:17 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA07932 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:04:20 -0800 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.03.0014/4c.adoc) with ESMTP id ba135227 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:13:02 -0600 Subject: [freestyle] Jam in the Heartland! Message-Id: <000000507842966990989@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 22:09:48 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.8 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org (Freestyle Listserve) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org WHEN: Saturday, January 17, 1998 WHERE: St. Joe, Missouri =20 WHY: Freestyle, of course! Mark the date on your calendar, make sure you have some fuel in your car, = and plan to go back home with ice in your floorboard 'cause we're gonna blister your feet! I almost guarantee you will end up with feathers in your belongings, too, because the chicken-man is flappin' his wings again. Bock Bock! For mor information, contact Josh Bowen: -- Derrick Fogle -- Heartland Eye Banks -- dfogle@mlerf.org -- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 7 18:38:22 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA02032 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:38:13 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA02028 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:38:07 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2025) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA02023 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:38:07 GMT Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.172]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19519 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:38:04 -0800 From: Nageylum Message-ID: <6ff44148.34b3c9bc@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:30:17 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] scorpion tails? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I've just finished searching the freestyle move links and I still have no clue what a "scorpion tails" is. I tried all the links that steve send me, and thanks for them. Could some one describe this move. Thanks for your time, Josh From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 7 19:04:46 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02218 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:04:45 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02214 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:04:44 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2211) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02209 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:04:44 GMT Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA20082 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:04:46 -0800 Received: from [207.208.136.120] (d120.focal.interaccess.com [207.208.136.120]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id MAA26676; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:59:14 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:59:14 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Nageylum , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [freestyle] scorpion tails? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Josh! >I've just finished searching the freestyle move links and I still have no clue >what a "scorpion tails" is. I tried all the links that steve send me, and >thanks for them. Could some one describe this move. Scorpion Tail is a spinning barfly. For instance, from the Left Clipper set, spin CCW, and barfly (double dex out-in) to left clipper. Very much like a spinning butterfly, but with an extra dex. Johova's notation would look like (although I am a prononunce non-expert on this): Clip > Spin Away > Same In > Same In > Same Clip I am sure that looks funky to all you Johovah's Witnesses, but you get the gist! Josh, where are you from and what is your last name? If you live near Eric Wulff (Ironman), then definately ask him about it, he is the master! Try mastering Spinning butterfly, and also barfly, then combine the two. Good luck, See ya! Enlightener (Scott Davidson) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 7 20:05:59 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03044 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:05:48 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03040 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:05:48 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3037) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA03035 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:05:47 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20981; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:05:50 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA17538; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:05:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:05:44 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter cc: Nageylum , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] scorpion tails? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter wrote: > Scorpion Tail is a spinning barfly. > > For instance, from the Left Clipper set, spin CCW, and barfly (double dex > out-in) to left clipper. Very much like a spinning butterfly, but with an > extra dex. I thought Scorpion's Tail was a spinning down double. I don't think there is such a thing as a spinning barfly. There's gyro barfly though. A gyro barfly would be like a gyro butterfly with a double dex. The reason I think this is because the definition of a barfly is double down set from the *opposite* clipper you're catching with. Down double is catching with the *same* foot you set with. > Johova's notation would look like (although I am a prononunce non-expert on > this): > Clip > Spin Away > Same In > Same In > Same Clip Not quite, it's : Clip> Spin(back)> Op out in dex> same out in dex> op clip Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 7 20:17:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03246 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:17:09 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03242 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:17:08 GMT Received: from hill9361@uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3239) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA03237 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:17:08 GMT Received: from raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (raven.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.192.43]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21106; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:17:10 -0800 Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA26149; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:17:06 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.csrv.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:17:06 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand X-Sender: hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu To: Verhoef Anne cc: Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter , Nageylum , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] scorpion tails? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I thought Scorpion's Tail was a spinning down double. I don't think there > is such a thing as a spinning barfly. There's gyro barfly though. A gyro > barfly would be like a gyro butterfly with a double dex. > The reason I think this is because the definition of a barfly is double > down set from the *opposite* clipper you're catching with. Down double is > catching with the *same* foot you set with. > > > Johova's notation would look like (although I am a prononunce non-expert on > > this): > > Clip > Spin Away > Same In > Same In > Same Clip > > Not quite, > it's : Clip> Spin(back)> Op out in dex> same out in dex> op clip Well, that move you just described is the gyro barfly, right? Still, nobody knows what a Scorpion Tail is from this discussion? (I know I don't.) __________________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 7 22:31:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA04381 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:30:40 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA04377 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:30:38 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4374) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA04372 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:30:37 GMT Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.176]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23444; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:30:40 -0800 From: Nageylum Message-ID: <4b2440f1.34b3eba3@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:54:57 EST To: hill9361@uidaho.edu, marigold@vcn.bc.ca Cc: enlightener@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] scorpion tails? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org from what i've been told a scorpion tails is like a spinning butterfly with an extra dex. on the same side as the first dex. was done. If this is wrong please feel freee to tell me Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 02:37:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA06535 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:36:01 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA06531 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:35:59 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6528) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA06526 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:35:59 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27716; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:36:03 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA05135; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:34:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:34:04 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: Matt Hillebrand cc: Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter , Nageylum , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] scorpion tails? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Matt Hillebrand wrote: > > it's : Clip> Spin(back)> Op out in dex> same out in dex> op clip > > Well, that move you just described is the gyro barfly, right? No. The one above is scorpion's tail. So, Scorpion's Tail: clip> spin(back)> op out in dex> same out in dex> op clip Gyro barfly: clip> spin(back)> *same* out in dex> same out in dex> op clip In simple terms; scorpion's tail is a spinning down-double. Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 03:09:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA06880 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:09:07 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA06876 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:09:07 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6873) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA06871 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:09:07 GMT Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.165]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28207 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:09:11 -0800 From: StinKyKiwi Message-ID: <9a6846e1.34b442dd@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:06:59 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org how do you trans late stuff like SPIN>OP>CLIP??? how do you translate that stuff? Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 03:45:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA07124 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:45:24 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA07120 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:45:24 GMT Received: from 00201887@bigred.unl.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7117) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA07115 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:45:24 GMT Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28603 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:45:29 -0800 Received: (from 00201887@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04432; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:44:03 -0600 (CST) From: Theron A Troxel <00201887@bigred.unl.edu> Message-Id: <199801080344.VAA04432@bigred.unl.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] question To: StinKyKiwi@aol.com (StinKyKiwi) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:44:03 -0600 (CST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <9a6846e1.34b442dd@aol.com> from "StinKyKiwi" at Jan 7, 98 10:06:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Matt says: > how do you trans late stuff like > SPIN>OP>CLIP??? > how do you translate that stuff? Steve is it time to repost the secret decoding method? I'm sure there are some new and old people that don't have their decoder rings yet (Scott D =) (just joking Scott). Plus, I haven't seen ol job's message in a while. Looking forward to the Missouri Jam!!! Later. -- --------------------------- @ Theron Troxel \_|_/ UNLFC President | o 00201887@bigred.unl.edu /_\_ http://www.unl.edu/crec/SC/footbag \ ------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 03:55:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA07238 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:55:25 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA07233 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:55:24 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7230) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA07228 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:55:24 GMT Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28737 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:55:29 -0800 Received: from [204.62.245.116] (brat-2 [204.62.245.116]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09220; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:54:54 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199801080344.VAA04432@bigred.unl.edu> References: <9a6846e1.34b442dd@aol.com> from "StinKyKiwi" at Jan 7, 98 10:06:59 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:55:47 -0800 To: Theron A Troxel <00201887@bigred.unl.edu> From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] question Cc: StinKyKiwi@aol.com (StinKyKiwi), freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 7:44 PM -0800 1/7/98, Theron A Troxel wrote: >Matt says: >> how do you trans late stuff like >> SPIN>OP>CLIP??? >> how do you translate that stuff? > >Steve is it time to repost the secret decoding method? Sure, here goes: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Steve's 5-minute tutorial on Job's notation for e-mail freestyle talk: -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is "Blur" in Ben Job's notation, as a point of reference for the rest of the tutorial: clip > op in dex > op in dex > op toe (1) Ben Job realized (and it wasn't so obvious before, believe it or not) that moves basically start with one of two sets: either a toe or a clipper, so each move in his notation is "clip >" or "toe >" meaning "clipper set into" or "toe set into"; and moves basically end with one of two contacts (toe or clipper). So in the case of Blur, the move usually starts with a set out of a clipper delay and ends with a toe.. Hence: "clip > ... > ... toe". (2) The ">" can be read as "into" or "followed by", but is a special symbol because if you say "into" or "followed by" people aren't sure if you mean there's a contact in between or not. The ">" expressly means "without contacting the bag between the things on either side of the > symbol". So when we use ">" we are never talking about "strings" of moves; only about "components" that go into the moves. Hence I tend to refer to each thing after a ">" but before the next ">" as a "component". (3) Ben further noticed that in a huge percentage of the moves (and all of the basic ones), you can easily describe a move in terms of the dexterities involved -- i.e., whether a leg goes "in-out" (mirage-style) around/over the bag, or "out-in" (butterfly-style, reverse-mirage style). To avoid verbosity, these are shortened to just "in" for "in-out" and "out" for "out-in". And the word "dexterity" is shortened to "dex". So in the case of Blur, the notation would give us "... in dex > ... in dex ..." to represent that there are two sequential in-out dexterities in the move. For this tutorial, let's ignore moves like "pogo" and "symposium" and other moves where plants and spins (gyrating, in-spinning, etc.) are significant. They *are* handled by the notation, but it's best to understand the BASIC form of the notation before getting into that stuff, so I'll leave it for another tutorial. (Some of that notation is also open to debate as to whether or not it covers every case.) (4) The only other confusion might be "opposite" versus "same". We decided that, to avoid having to write a move description twice, once for the left side and one for the right, and since people aren't always in agreement about which side is which (don't ask), everything would be "relative". What I mean by "relative" is, when we say "opposite" ("op"), we mean "opposite to the leg/foot referred to just before the ">", and when we say "same", we mean "same as the leg/foot referred to just before the ">". So Blur set from either clipper would be: clip > op in dex > op in dex > op toe (The non-setting foot does the first in-out dexterity; the foot that didn't do that dexterity then does another in-out dexterity; and you catch the bag on the toe of the foot that didn't just do that final dexterity.) (5) Why do we use "relative" meanings for "op" and "same", and not use them to refer to "opposite of setting foot" or "same as setting foot"? The answer is, it really doesn't make a big difference which way we use them, but we have to be consistent and agree to a particular meaning, and most people have accepted the convention in (4) above. I personally think the one we're using now is more sensible, and if you want to spent 1 more minute, read this reasoning. Otherwise, skip it and you're done with the tutorial. Reasoning: if we write everything relative to the setting foot, it confuses the issue for variations on moves (such as "paradox" or "gyrating") where the components are exactly the same, but the set is different. So we (I?) prefer to be able to see the similarity in two moves by comparing their inner components without having to go and figure out which leg is which. If everything is relative ("opposite of or same as leg referred to in the previous component") then things are generally simpler to cut and paste in e-mail. :-) NOTE: Moves can start and end with other surfaces than toes and clippers, including insides (used like toes), dragons (used like clippers), and soles (used either way depending on whether they're cross-body or not), but the description would otherwise be identical. So a move could be "inside > ... > dragon" if it started with an inside set and ended in a dragon, for example. But the key is, regardless of which surface you use, all the stuff in the middle (after the set and before the pick-up) is the same. But let's ignore those cases for the sake of understanding the basic notation. The terms at the beginning and end of the move description are really the least interesting (especially since most of us agree the set isn't really part of the move, again not wanting to open a can of worms onto the great paradox debate :-)). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- End of Tutorial -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 16:20:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00942 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:19:04 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00938 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:19:02 GMT Received: from markdenton@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (935) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00933 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:19:02 GMT Received: from f134.hotmail.com ([207.82.251.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA04509 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:19:03 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by f134.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA02390 for Freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:19:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199801081619.IAA02390@f134.hotmail.com> Received: from 198.161.119.4 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 08 Jan 1998 08:19:01 PST X-Originating-IP: [198.161.119.4] From: "Mark Denton" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] [Freestyle]Facile Juice vs. Twisted Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 08:19:01 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, Can anyone tell me if there are any advantages/disadvantages to both Facile Juice footbags and Twisteds. Is this merely preferance or is one better than the other? Thanks, Mark ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 17:01:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01303 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:01:04 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01299 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:01:03 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1296) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01294 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:01:03 GMT Received: from stick.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05420 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:01:03 -0800 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA03262; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:00:49 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:00:48 -0600 (CST) From: Eric Burgess To: Mark Denton cc: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] [Freestyle]Facile Juice vs. Twisted In-Reply-To: <199801081619.IAA02390@f134.hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Mark Denton wrote: > Can anyone tell me if there are any advantages/disadvantages to both > Facile Juice footbags and Twisteds. Is this merely preferance or is one > better than the other? the twisted will break in really quickly, as opposed to the juice. however, it's been my experience that later in life the juice will be a better bag, because the twisteds have a tendency to get *too* floppy. on the other hand, twisteds look *really* cool! :) but if you must pick one or the other, my advice would be to go with the juice. eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 17:41:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01624 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:41:08 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01620 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:41:07 GMT Received: from crvich@raleigh.ibm.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1617) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01615 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:41:06 GMT Received: from fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns1d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.235]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA06340 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:41:07 -0800 Received: from rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.24]) by fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7RTP-FW1.1) with ESMTP id MAA02770 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:41:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (ode1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.178.164]) by rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id MAA33458 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:41:05 -0500 Received: from odent1.raleigh.ibm.com by ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA27780; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:41:02 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980108123852.0090dc60@ode1> X-Sender: crvich@ode1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 12:38:52 -0500 To: Freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] [Freestyle]Facile Juice vs. Twisted In-Reply-To: References: <199801081619.IAA02390@f134.hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:00 AM 1/8/98 -0600, Eric Burgess wrote: >the twisted will break in really quickly, as opposed to the juice. Agreed. >better bag, because the twisteds have a tendency to get *too* floppy. I respectfully disagree, though I'm probably in the minority. I've had a Twisted for over a year (I had two facile Juices before it), and I'm of the opinion that the Twisted has both slightly stronger fabric and slightly better stitching (probably due to it being less complex, regarding intersections). It's also a little heavier, which is a Good Thing. I have no complaints about its "floppiness", which for me seems only to depend on how moist it is. I prefer a flatter bag, anyway, since I almost never perform kicks of any sort (flyers and such) with it. It's also a couple dollars cheaper (from WFA). However, its shape gives it a decided non-spherical disadvantage to a pseudo-perfectly round Juice. But once it's broken in well, it doesn't seem to adversely affect performance. Most of the people who make their own bags (Paul Munger, Carol Wedemeyer, etc.) use a 32-panel pattern similar to the Juice. It's tried-and-true, whereas the Twisted pattern is somewhat experimental. They're both excellent bags, but I've switched to Twisted for the time being (I may switch back, who knows?). If you have the funds, I'd recommend buying one of each and judging for yourself, as it's definitely a subjective call. In any case, make sure to specify NO MAROON PANELS. 8-) -- Ernest M. Crvich Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 20:21:56 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03158 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:20:39 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03154 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:20:36 GMT Received: from hill9361@uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3151) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA03149 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:20:36 GMT Received: from raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (raven.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.192.43]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09599 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:20:38 -0800 Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA25964; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:20:25 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.csrv.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:20:25 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand X-Sender: hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu To: Mark Denton cc: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Facile Juice vs. Twisted In-Reply-To: <199801081619.IAA02390@f134.hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Can anyone tell me if there are any advantages/disadvantages to both > Facile Juice footbags and Twisteds. Is this merely preferance or is one > better than the other? I used to be a die-hard Twisted advocate, but I think they kind of suck now. Indeed, they are awesome when they are brand new....no breaking-in seems necessary. Then, like everyone has been telling me, they get too big to do any crazy tricks. Everyone and their dog recommends a facile juice. But if you want my humble opinion, they suck. Even the guys who make/sell them tell you to buy two because facile isn't very predictable or dependable, and you'll still need to break out the freesole all the time. No offense to flying clipper, but I think the best bag on earth is: THE STORK. They too are made from facile, which is an advantage, and they hardly every break, another advantage, but they are pricey (yep, disadvantage). I bought a facile juice at a tournament once, and the fabric broke within two hours, in several places. They were really nice about it, and gave me a new one against their policy. I have been *so* nice to this bag, and the damn filling leaks out the seams. No Stork has ever done that to me, or anyone I know. __________________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 20:22:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03193 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:22:04 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03189 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:22:03 GMT Received: from shahrayar@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3186) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA03184 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:22:03 GMT Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.176]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09614 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:22:05 -0800 From: SHAHRAYAR Message-ID: <5bf78c65.34b5342e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:16:45 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] [Freestyle]Facile Juice vs. Twisted Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well I'll tell ya, When I first started kicking (for real) I was using a twisted and thought it was the hottest thing since sliced bread (of course that was an upgrade from a sipa). Then when I started kicking with Tuan, he would not let us kick with it and insisted on a facile juice; who was I to complain. After a while, I got used to the juice and prefer it to the lighter twisted bag. I'd say it's mostly personal preference but if you have ever kicked with a perfectly broken in facile juice it is the ultimate bag (cept for a perfectly broken in carol bag). Jim From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 20:40:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03395 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:40:36 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03391 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:40:36 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3388) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA03386 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:40:35 GMT Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.172]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09880 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:40:38 -0800 From: StinKyKiwi Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:38:38 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] juice vs. twisted Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just got my Twisted bag yesterday, and I already have a juice facile. Right now the twisted is a beter bag for me. It is slightly heavier making it easier to stall. Mat From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 20:50:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03511 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:50:43 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03507 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:50:43 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3504) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA03502 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:50:42 GMT Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10086 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:50:45 -0800 From: StinKyKiwi Message-ID: <29067bbe.34b53b13@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:46:10 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] move name... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just came up with a move that looks like one I know...has it already been thought up? I think it would be a 2 or 3 ADD move: Right inside stall, bring foot around the back of Left leg holding the bag on inside into a clipper position. Kick up the bag and quickly bring right foot to the front of the left foot to stall the footbag on the toe. All this is while the left foot is planted. Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 20:56:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03611 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:56:30 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03607 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:56:29 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3604) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA03602 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:56:29 GMT Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.174]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10195 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:56:32 -0800 From: StinKyKiwi Message-ID: <53234af5.34b53cc2@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:53:20 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just wanted to get yalls opinion on the BEST footbag out! Thanks, Matt Avery From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 20:57:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03628 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:57:33 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03624 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:57:32 GMT Received: from adriand@callplus.co.nz () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3621) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA03619 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:57:32 GMT Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (www.callplus.co.nz [202.27.101.18]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10223 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:57:33 -0800 Received: by www.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:53:46 +1300 Message-ID: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C08B2E6@www.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: "'StinKyKiwi'" Cc: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] move name... Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:53:45 +1300 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org That a Wrap (2 adds, delay and dexterity) to a toe delay (1 add, delay). On the bright side, you could call it a 3 add combo. Adrian -----Original Message----- From: StinKyKiwi [SMTP:StinKyKiwi@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, 8 January 1998 15:46 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] move name... I just came up with a move that looks like one I know...has it already been thought up? I think it would be a 2 or 3 ADD move: Right inside stall, bring foot around the back of Left leg holding the bag on inside into a clipper position. Kick up the bag and quickly bring right foot to the front of the left foot to stall the footbag on the toe. All this is while the left foot is planted. Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 22:25:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA04398 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:25:04 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA04394 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:25:03 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4391) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA04389 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:25:02 GMT Received: from stick.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11718 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:25:05 -0800 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA00244; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:25:03 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:25:03 -0600 (CST) From: Eric Burgess To: StinKyKiwi cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] question In-Reply-To: <53234af5.34b53cc2@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org my personal opinion is that carol wiedemeyer (i probably spelled that wrong) makes the best bags in the universe. she uses facile and makes them in the 32-panel juice pattern. my friends and i got carol bags a few months ago and haven't kicked with anything else since. eric On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, StinKyKiwi wrote: > I just wanted to get yalls opinion on the BEST footbag out! > > Thanks, > Matt Avery > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 22:26:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA04432 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:26:20 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA04428 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:26:19 GMT Received: from scalf@utdallas.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4425) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA04423 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:26:19 GMT Received: from poteidaia.utdallas.edu (poteidaia.utdallas.edu [129.110.10.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11741 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:26:22 -0800 Received: from apache.utdallas.edu (scalf@apache.utdallas.edu [129.110.16.9]) by poteidaia.utdallas.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25778; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:26:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (scalf@localhost) by apache.utdallas.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA23007; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:26:20 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: apache.utdallas.edu: scalf owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:26:20 -0600 (CST) From: Derric Scalf To: StinKyKiwi cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move name... In-Reply-To: <29067bbe.34b53b13@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, StinKyKiwi wrote: > > Right inside stall, bring foot around the back of Left leg holding the bag on > inside into a clipper position. Kick up the bag and quickly bring right foot > to the front of the left foot to stall the footbag on the toe. All this is > while the left foot is planted. > > Matt > This would be two moves. The first one is catching an inside stall and bringing it around to a clipper stall. That is called a wrap and is 2 adds. The next move is just a clipper set toe stall. Since the set doesn't matter, it is just the same as any other toe stall. One add. If you can do the initial inside delay while you are bringing it around to a clipper all in one smooth fluid motion, it is a refraction. That is one of the easier three add moves. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 22:49:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA04617 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:49:43 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA04613 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:49:43 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4610) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA04608 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:49:43 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F74.hotmail.com [207.82.250.180]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA12034 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:49:44 -0800 Received: (qmail 25605 invoked by uid 0); 8 Jan 1998 22:49:41 -0000 Message-ID: <19980108224941.25603.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.156 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 08 Jan 1998 14:49:41 PST X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.156] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] question Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 14:49:41 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >my personal opinion is that carol wiedemeyer (i probably spelled that >wrong) makes the best bags in the universe. she uses facile and >makes them in the 32-panel juice pattern. my friends and i got carol >bags a few months ago and haven't kicked with anything else since. > >eric Ditto. Carol's got her sh*t together. But don't overlook that Fungis of Mungis. He's got some nice stuff as well. Dan K ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 23:11:43 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04854 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:11:39 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04850 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:11:38 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4847) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04845 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:11:38 GMT Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12325 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:11:41 -0800 Received: from [207.208.136.105] (d105.focal.interaccess.com [207.208.136.105]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id RAA25336; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:06:03 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:06:03 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: SHAHRAYAR , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [freestyle] [Freestyle]Facile Juice vs. Twisted Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! So far you have mentioned the Twisted, the Facile Juice and the Stork. I have never had a Stork, so I can't say about that. I mostly practice with Hu-Mungis footbags, which are facile. But when I play in groups, or on cement, I use an Adidas 32-panel (of the China ilk) off the shelf tango style. I also used the Adidas Tango (china, Not Paki) at for all three rounds at '97 World Championships and placed 2nd in Pro Singles Freestyle. And I believe that Sam did the same (except she won), but I don't want to put words in her mouth. What I am saying is, that there is an affordable, off-the-shelf, footbag that is available nationally in retail outlets (and through the WFA). Choose your poison. Shred hard and prosper! See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener@footbag.org From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 23:42:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA05124 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:41:52 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA05120 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:41:52 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5117) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA05115 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:41:51 GMT Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.165]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12644 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:41:55 -0800 From: StinKyKiwi Message-ID: <56a622af.34b562b6@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:35:17 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org at the top of every Email from yall it says from: then your address, then in parenthasis, it says your name. Now if you look up at my name, it says my real name is Stinky Kiwi, which it is not. How do I make it say my name? Thanks Matt Avery From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 8 23:51:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA05306 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:51:09 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA05302 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:51:08 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5299) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA05297 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:51:07 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F52.hotmail.com [207.82.250.63]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA12770 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:51:11 -0800 Received: (qmail 21944 invoked by uid 0); 8 Jan 1998 23:51:10 -0000 Message-ID: <19980108235110.21943.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.109.224.167 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 08 Jan 1998 15:51:10 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.109.224.167] From: "The 'Mazin Josh Penney" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Juice vs. Twisted Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 15:51:10 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >What I am saying is, that there is an affordable, >off-the-shelf, footbag that is available nationally in retail outlets (and >through the WFA). Choose your poison. I have to agree with (in no recognizable order) Matt, Jim, Dan, Ernest, Derrick, and Scott... This may be a first for me. I have personally worn out more twisteds than lavers, so I tend to stick to bags that last a bit longer.. but sometimes I do feel the need to get a bag I know will bust in an hour. Listen here. The fact is that you can get used to *any* footbag. You and your feet will adjust. Facile is a relatively recent innovation in the world of footbag; folks who shred harder than you (well, most of you) worked miracles like vortex, mobius, whirling swirl, blurry whirl, and diving infinities with a bag made of synthetic suede we would'n wipe our... noses... with today. Just something to keep in mind. Ernesto: I would like to personally point out to you that your maroon panels may have been from a bad batch. I have seen weak white, yellow, blue, orange. Don't jugde too harshly by one or two bags, not every footbag under the sun is from the same roll of facile. JP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 9 00:15:38 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA05491 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:15:22 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA05487 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:15:22 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5484) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA05482 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:15:22 GMT Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.169]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13186 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:15:25 -0800 From: StinKyKiwi Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:01:19 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Juice vs. Twisted Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Once again, I just got my twisted yesterday and already it has gotten to be the size of the Hacky Sack Magic. Now, I would suggest that the Twisted footbag is very good for beginners. I personaly perfer the juice bag over any footbag I've used ( I haven't used the Stork). When awsome tricks like the Blur are done, you need a lightweight and smaller bag like the juice. Question: I've had my Facile Juice for about a month and its very well broken in. But if I practice on my deck, for 2 hours each day, how long will I have until it "bursts"? -Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 9 00:57:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA05830 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:57:37 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA05826 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:57:35 GMT Received: from scalf@utdallas.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5823) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA05821 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:57:35 GMT Received: from poteidaia.utdallas.edu (poteidaia.utdallas.edu [129.110.10.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13899 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:57:39 -0800 Received: from apache.utdallas.edu (scalf@apache.utdallas.edu [129.110.16.9]) by poteidaia.utdallas.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04777; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:56:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (scalf@localhost) by apache.utdallas.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA00275; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:56:52 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: apache.utdallas.edu: scalf owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:56:52 -0600 (CST) From: Derric Scalf To: StinKyKiwi cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Juice vs. Twisted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I couldn't resist any longer. I have to say something here. I have used many a bag. Personally, I really liked the Twisted when I was first starting out. It stayed broken in. Then, I went to a "dirty" Juice. It was a sand filled 32-panel I picked up in Portland. I still like that bag. The only problem with it is that you can see sand flying out of it each time you make contact. That is a bit distracting. But, if you fill it up once a week or so, it is nice. Lately, I've been using some of my friend's Carol bags. They rule. No problems yet. I can't forget to sing the praises of the Stork though. I had one of those as my very first freestyle bag. I didn't know how to use it then, but it served me very very well. And, I like the heavier beads the Hane Dane uses. If you go with an Allen Peterson bag (Stork, or for the well-to-do-footbagger, a Hammer), I don't think you'll be dissapointed. Now to answer the question I responded to: Facile really varies batch by batch. I have some blue facile right in front of me that is about as sturdy as a cotton ball. I have gotten to where I will try to tear the facile before I buy it. So, the moral of this story is... no one knows how long a bag will last. You just take a chance with it. If you take care of it and learn the delicate art of glueing, a bag can last many many years. My mentor, James Roberts, has had the same 32 panel juice for about 5 years. And, believe me, it has been kicked. On the other hand, I have a friend that got a facile Juice and one of the colors blew out on the first day. The key is to see the hole before it happens.. when it is just starting to show. Then, put a *thin* layer of glue on it. Woomp! The bag is fine. Now, if the deck is wood and you kick for two hours a day and a train leaves Chicago heading toward Dallas at a rate of 200 km/hour, the bag might last... hmmmmmm.... a year. On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, StinKyKiwi wrote: > Once again, > > I just got my twisted yesterday and already it has gotten to be the size of > the Hacky Sack Magic. Now, I would suggest that the Twisted footbag is very > good for beginners. I personaly perfer the juice bag over any footbag I've > used ( I haven't used the Stork). When awsome tricks like the Blur are done, > you need a lightweight and smaller bag like the juice. > > Question: I've had my Facile Juice for about a month and its very well broken > in. But if I practice on my deck, for 2 hours each day, how long will I have > until it "bursts"? > > -Matt > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 9 02:17:43 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA06587 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:17:26 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA06583 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:17:25 GMT Received: from brc@ameritech.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6580) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA06578 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:17:21 GMT Received: from mailhost.chicago.il.ameritech.net (mpdr0.chicago.il.ameritech.net [206.141.192.243]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA14969 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:17:26 -0800 Received: from 206.141.214.130 (dyn-max14-130.chicago.il.ameritech.net [206.141.214.130]) by mailhost.chicago.il.ameritech.net (8.8.3/8.8.3-AIMS) with SMTP id UAA08577 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:17:18 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199801090217.UAA08577@mailhost.chicago.il.ameritech.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail & News for Macintosh - 3.0c (405) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 20:15:25 -0500 Subject: [freestyle] 92 Panel Whirl From: Brian Carstensen To: Footbag Freestyle Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey there. I'm currently using a "Whirl 92", but am having some insane problems stalling it. It always stays perfectly round, not alowing it to "wrap around" the top of my foot. It's easier to stall with my 5 year old Magic (heheh). I was wondering if there was a special way I should break it in. Thanks, - Brian From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 9 02:35:56 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA06799 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:35:55 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA06795 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:35:54 GMT Received: from scalf@utdallas.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6792) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA06790 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:35:54 GMT Received: from poteidaia.utdallas.edu (poteidaia.utdallas.edu [129.110.10.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA15407 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:35:59 -0800 Received: from apache.utdallas.edu (scalf@apache.utdallas.edu [129.110.16.9]) by poteidaia.utdallas.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA09018 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:35:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (scalf@localhost) by apache.utdallas.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA02246 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:35:58 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: apache.utdallas.edu: scalf owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:35:58 -0600 (CST) From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: Derric Scalf To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] refractions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just said something about a refraction which made me think. On the moves list, it says that refraction is an inside delay made while spinning into a cross-body position. The way I have always done it was to leave out the spin. I catch it on an inside delay, and then scoop it to a cross body position. I hop forward just a bit with the support leg, and there it is, a clipper. Is this a bastardized version of a refraction, or is it just a normal old refraction? Also, symposium infinity? Doing refraction the way that I have been, I have been trying to string them together. It feels kinda funny, but cool all at the same time. I watched '97 Shred (bitchin' tape!) the other day and saw Daryl Genz doing basically the same thing. Except that I thiink they are technically symposium infinities. Is the only difference the fact that on symp. infinity the bag is not contacted until it is cross body whereas on those "refractions" that I do, the bag is contacted as it is going under the dex leg? -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 9 02:50:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA06913 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:50:32 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA06909 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:50:31 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6906) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA06904 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:50:31 GMT Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA15987 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:50:36 -0800 Received: from [204.62.245.116] (brat-2 [204.62.245.116]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA21742; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:49:53 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:50:49 -0800 To: Derric Scalf From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] refractions Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 6:35 PM -0800 1/8/98, Derric Scalf wrote: >I just said something about a refraction which made me think. >..snip.. >.. I catch it on an inside delay, and then scoop it to a cross >body position. I hop forward just a bit with the support leg, and there >it is, a clipper. Is this a bastardized version of a refraction, or is it >just a normal old refraction? It sounds like you do a "butterfly". Can you clarify what the difference is in your execution of "butterfly" versus "refraction"? >Also, symposium infinity? Yes, the move exists. Is that your question? It's a different move from refraction. >Is the only difference the fact that on symp. >infinity the bag is not contacted until it is cross body whereas on those >"refractions" that I do, the bag is contacted as it is going under the dex >leg? Yes, that's most of the distinction. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 9 03:04:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA07145 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 03:04:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA07141 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 03:04:22 GMT Received: from scalf@utdallas.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7138) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA07136 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 03:04:21 GMT Received: from poteidaia.utdallas.edu (poteidaia.utdallas.edu [129.110.10.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16197; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:04:26 -0800 Received: from apache.utdallas.edu (scalf@apache.utdallas.edu [129.110.16.9]) by poteidaia.utdallas.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10076; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:04:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (scalf@localhost) by apache.utdallas.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA03157; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:04:25 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: apache.utdallas.edu: scalf owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:04:25 -0600 (CST) From: Derric Scalf To: Steve Goldberg cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] refractions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > At 6:35 PM -0800 1/8/98, Derric Scalf wrote: > >I just said something about a refraction which made me think. > >..snip.. > >.. I catch it on an inside delay, and then scoop it to a cross > >body position. I hop forward just a bit with the support leg, and there > >it is, a clipper. Is this a bastardized version of a refraction, or is it > >just a normal old refraction? > > It sounds like you do a "butterfly". Can you clarify what the difference > is in your execution of "butterfly" versus "refraction"? > when I do the refraction, the bag is most definately caught non-cross-body. My foot is almost directly beside the knee of my support leg. As I cushion the bag for the stall, I point my toes a bit and scoop the bag under my support leg. Usually, I hop forward a little on my support leg to keep from scooping the bag right into my knee. For butterfly, I jump over the bag with the dex leg landing in a xbody delay. See what I'm saying? My vote is that it *is* a refraction just without the spin. That's why I'm asking though.. so those more knowledgable can tell me what I'm doing. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 9 04:05:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA07416 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:05:28 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA07412 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:05:27 GMT Received: from hill9361@uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7409) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA07407 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:05:27 GMT Received: from raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (raven.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.192.43]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA16914 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:05:33 -0800 Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA10113 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:05:32 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.csrv.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:05:31 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand X-Sender: hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Wheel of Fortune Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was watching this game show tonight, and some guy named Noel introduced himself as a "big hacky sack player." I bet he doesn't frequent this mailing list too much if he calls it hacky sack, eh? :) What really caught my attention is that he had another good luck charm in his coat pocket that he called a "popular Warner Bros. character" since it was a copyrighted name he couldn't say on the air....like how people can't say the name of the company they work for on the game show. Well, then, why is he allowed to say "Hacky Sack?" hrmmmmm. __________________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 9 05:58:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA07941 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:57:50 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA07937 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:57:48 GMT Received: from tuhuge@sfsu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7934) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA07932 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:57:47 GMT Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18018 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:57:53 -0800 Received: from tuhuge.sfsu.edu (madmax-47.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.47]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA26044; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:57:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980108095656.0068cc9c@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 09:56:56 -0800 To: Eric Burgess From: 2 Subject: Re: [freestyle] question Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: References: <53234af5.34b53cc2@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 04:25 PM 1/8/98 -0600, you wrote: > >my personal opinion is that carol wiedemeyer (i probably spelled that >wrong) makes the best bags in the universe. she uses facile and makes >them in the 32-panel juice pattern. my friends and i got carol bags a few >months ago and haven't kicked with anything else since. Ever since i first competed with a carol bag in 95' I have never used anything else in competition. As for a shred bag, it rocks!!!! 2 huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 9 14:19:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA10077 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:19:09 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA10073 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:19:07 GMT Received: from crvich@raleigh.ibm.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10070) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA10068 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:19:07 GMT Received: from fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns1d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.235]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA23389 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:19:16 -0800 Received: from rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.47]) by fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7RTP-FW1.1) with ESMTP id JAA07184 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:19:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (ode1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.178.164]) by rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id JAA30138 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:19:13 -0500 Received: from odent1.raleigh.ibm.com by ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA39446; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:19:12 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980109091651.0090bd40@ode1> X-Sender: crvich@ode1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 09:16:51 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] Juice vs. Twisted In-Reply-To: <19980108235110.21943.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 03:51 PM 1/8/98 PST, The 'Mazin Josh Penney wrote: >Ernesto: I would like to personally point out to you that your maroon >panels may have been from a bad batch. I have seen weak white, yellow, It wasn't only from my own experiences; other people have expressed the same thing to me, sometimes using their hands. I started to investigate this on my own, but the facile warehouses are guarded day and night by some kind of lobster-like creatures (resistant to both incendiary devices and stabbing/probing weapons). If the Man has added white, yellow, blue and orange to the list, then I guess I'll just have to stop footbagging and switch to dirty dancing. My signature rump stalls would serve me well... -- Ernest M. Crvich Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 9 15:20:56 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00418 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:20:39 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00414 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:20:38 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (411) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00409 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:20:38 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F95.hotmail.com [207.82.250.201]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA24093 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:20:34 -0800 Received: (qmail 22152 invoked by uid 0); 9 Jan 1998 15:20:33 -0000 Message-ID: <19980109152033.22151.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.156 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 09 Jan 1998 07:20:33 PST X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.156] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] 92 Panel Whirl Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 07:20:33 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Hey there. I'm currently using a "Whirl 92", but am having some >insane problems stalling it. It always stays perfectly round, not >alowing it to "wrap around" the top of my foot. It's easier to stall >with my 5 year old Magic (heheh). I was wondering if there was a >special way I should break it in. > >Thanks, > - Brian I hate to say it, but that Whirl 92 will probably never break in properly. If you want a freestyle bag, stick to 32 panels. Stalling a Whirl 92 is like trying to stall a tennis ball. Dan K ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 9 15:29:46 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00517 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:29:45 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00513 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:29:44 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (510) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00508 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:29:44 GMT Received: from stick.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24191 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:29:44 -0800 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA02147; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:29:24 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:29:24 -0600 (CST) From: Eric Burgess To: Brian Carstensen cc: Footbag Freestyle Subject: Re: [freestyle] 92 Panel Whirl In-Reply-To: <199801090217.UAA08577@mailhost.chicago.il.ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org while those zillion-pannel bags certainly look impressive, there's a rule of thumb that says the more panels you have, the longer it will take to break in. i'm not sure if the 92-panel bags *ever* get broken in nicely. the most panels i would recommend is 42 (legend), but i think that the juice (32) is even better, and cheaper too. eric On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Brian Carstensen wrote: > Hey there. I'm currently using a "Whirl 92", but am having some > insane problems stalling it. It always stays perfectly round, not > alowing it to "wrap around" the top of my foot. It's easier to stall > with my 5 year old Magic (heheh). I was wondering if there was a > special way I should break it in. > > Thanks, > - Brian > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 9 23:18:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04379 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:17:57 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04375 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:17:57 GMT Received: from f0ne@concentric.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4372) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04370 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:17:56 GMT Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31681 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:17:59 -0800 Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely.concentric.net [207.155.184.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.8/(97/11/17 5.8)) id SAA00692; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:17:55 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from fone (cnc003058.concentric.net [206.83.89.58]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.8.8) id SAA22265; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:17:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34B6B00D.3796@concentric.net> Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 17:17:33 -0600 From: "f0ne@concentric.net" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-GZone (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] new Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, I was just wondering ... i just ordered a pair of lavers and a juice (suede) ... I hear everyone saying that facile is alot better... but really no one i play with is careful enough (in my eyes that is) to play with a facile.... alot of people at my school play strictly pass no freestyle whatsoever ...and they all play with sipa bags. Anyway do you think it was a good idea to go with the suede instead of facile. I am thinking it was, but you know figured i would get some input. see ya Steve Wallace From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 9 23:21:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04398 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:21:23 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04394 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:21:22 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4391) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04389 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:21:22 GMT Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.175]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31729 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:21:24 -0800 From: Nageylum Message-ID: <9421c6ac.34b6af4c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:14:19 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] B.A.P. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was just thinking about what it takes to become a member of the B.A.P. and I realized all I know(or think i know) is that you have to go guiltless, but then I thought about when are you saposed to go guiltless? If anyone doesn't mind could you explain what else is needed to become part of the B.A.P., other than a love for the sport and to go guiltless? Thanks, Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 9 23:54:50 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04751 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:54:50 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04747 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:54:49 GMT Received: from scalf@utdallas.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4744) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04742 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:54:48 GMT Received: from poteidaia.utdallas.edu (poteidaia.utdallas.edu [129.110.10.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32339 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:54:52 -0800 Received: from apache.utdallas.edu (scalf@apache.utdallas.edu [129.110.16.9]) by poteidaia.utdallas.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12981; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:54:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (scalf@localhost) by apache.utdallas.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA12124; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:54:50 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: apache.utdallas.edu: scalf owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:54:50 -0600 (CST) From: Derric Scalf To: "f0ne@concentric.net" cc: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] new In-Reply-To: <34B6B00D.3796@concentric.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, f0ne@concentric.net wrote: > Hey all, > > I was just wondering ... i just ordered a pair of lavers and a juice > (suede) ... I hear everyone saying that facile is alot better... but > really no one i play with is careful enough (in my eyes that is) to play > with a facile.... alot of people at my school play strictly pass no > freestyle whatsoever ...and they all play with sipa bags. > Anyway do you think it was a good idea to go with the suede instead of > facile. I am thinking it was, but you know figured i would get some > input. > see ya > Steve Wallace > It depends. If you want to freestyle, I don't think anything is better than facile. But, if you're going to be pplaying in a circle that will tear up facile, then go with the suede or a Sipa Sipa. You might think about getting a good facile bag to use when you are only kicking with peopple who freestyle and will take care of it. That's what I do. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 10 00:29:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04887 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:29:36 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04883 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:29:36 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4880) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA04877 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:29:25 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (F36.hotmail.com [207.82.250.47]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA00076 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:29:29 -0800 Received: (qmail 26542 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jan 1998 00:29:28 -0000 Message-ID: <19980110002928.26540.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.109.224.208 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 09 Jan 1998 16:29:27 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.109.224.208] From: "The 'Mazin Josh Penney" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] B.A.P. and 92 Panel Whirls Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 16:29:27 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Apologies for the condensing of two subjects within a single message, but I'm sure we'va all been getting too much mail recently. >I was just thinking about what it takes to become a member of the B.A.P. and >then I thought about when are you saposed to go guiltless? >what else is needed to become part of the B.A.P., other >than a love for the sport and to go guiltless? Firstly, go guiltless when you are ready. No pressure. And, yes - you have to be really, really good. You have to "push the envelope". You must have the ability to make jaws drop from well beyond the depth of focus. I'd say that if you could comfortably hit ten moves in a row which are relatively difficult (blur, paradon, torque, blender, blizzard, atom-smasher, legbeater, flurry, double-over-swirl, blurriest, vortex, whirling swirl, symposium blur, pixie-butterfly, bedwetter, double whirl, paradox drifter, paradox whirl, paradox torque, voodoo)... gee, is that more than ten? I guess Iost track of the time... Anyway, if you can hit a whole bunch of those and keep going I and many others I know would travel several hundred miles to shred wit 'cha. Oh, and I might have to like you, too. As to the 92-panel, I can say honestly that the more panels you have, the more stitching is required. 92 panels mean fifty million stitches. You are kicking more string than anything else. Poor kitty, your aquisition will never be more than a consecutive or juggling bag. Yves told me that it was great for DDOP b|c it's so round and true, you can rarely shank (unless you're like me, and you suck). JP -oh, I TALK a good game ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 10 01:56:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA05321 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:56:31 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA05317 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:56:30 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5314) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA05312 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:56:29 GMT Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01468 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:56:33 -0800 From: Nageylum Message-ID: Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 20:54:39 EST To: f0ne@concentric.net, Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] new Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i don't think there would be a problem the synthedic suede is just as good (in my opion) as long as you don't do toe pick ups, but it may take a little longer to brake, but besides that it should be fine, i myself don't notice a huge difference in the quality of play between the two syn. suede, annd facile. Keep kicking, Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 10 02:42:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05661 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:42:27 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05657 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:42:26 GMT Received: from brc@ameritech.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5654) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA05652 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:42:26 GMT Received: from mailhost.chicago.il.ameritech.net (mpdr0.chicago.il.ameritech.net [206.141.192.243]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01990 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:42:29 -0800 Received: from 206.141.214.133 (dyn-max14-133.chicago.il.ameritech.net [206.141.214.133]) by mailhost.chicago.il.ameritech.net (8.8.3/8.8.3-AIMS) with SMTP id UAA16016 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 20:42:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199801100242.UAA16016@mailhost.chicago.il.ameritech.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail & News for Macintosh - 3.0c (405) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 20:40:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [freestyle] 92 Panel Whirl From: Brian Carstensen To: Footbag Freestyle Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Is the whirl-92 a good bag for the money? Is it worth it? I'd have to go with a "nope". It /won't/ break in, and is really stiff to begin with. I'm saving up some money for a Stork, which looks decently cool. One guy on here said it was the best. Anyone else use one? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 10 04:52:08 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA06508 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:51:46 GMT Received: (from bin@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA06504 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:51:45 GMT Received: from cactiken@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6501) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA06499 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:51:44 GMT Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.170]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03359 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 20:51:49 -0800 From: Cactiken Message-ID: <855d6f41.34b6fde5@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:49:40 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] best bags Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-trans