From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 1 01:40:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA01430 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 01:40:05 GMT Received: from endor5@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (629) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA00627 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 1998 20:06:09 GMT From: Endor5@aol.com Received: from imo25.mail.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.153]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA05720 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:06:12 -0800 Received: from Endor5@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OQWJa13841 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:00:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:00:51 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Streches Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was wondering if anyone knew some good stretches, exercises or moves that help loosen up the ankles. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 1 06:10:48 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA02752 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:10:30 GMT Received: from shredstein@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2655) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA02653 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 05:34:55 GMT From: ShReDStEiN@aol.com Received: from imo27.mail.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.155]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA13581 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:35:01 -0800 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OSILa12997 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:34:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <570d2497.34d4097d@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:34:51 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Le Coq Sportif's Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was wondering, and have been wondering, if the Super Ashe Le Coq Sportif models are stoll being worn in the footbag realm. I just saw a picture of them on the page Footbags on the Web and think they are dope. As a shredder myself I was looking at his bags then noticed the shoes, I'm wondering if any of you guys have seen them, no where to get a pair or have an old pair at hom that your willing to sell :) Thanks bros. Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 1 06:33:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA02944 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:33:08 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2913) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA02911 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:32:02 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14318 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 1998 22:32:09 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA02908; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:32:00 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <570d2497.34d4097d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 22:33:26 -0800 To: ShReDStEiN@aol.com From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Le Coq Sportif's Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:34 PM -0800 1/31/98, ShReDStEiN@aol.com wrote: >I was wondering, and have been wondering, if the Super Ashe Le Coq Sportif >models are stoll being worn in the footbag realm. The Le Coq's were probably the single worst thing to happen to footbag freestyle this decade. (Ask Kenny Shults.) People bought them because they were easy to find and cheaper than the Lavers. But they were cheap for good reason -- they sucked. Thank god Le Coq Sportif stopped manufacturing them back in '93 or so. Whatever you do -- don't wear them! The Rod Laver is superior... it is almost identical to the Le Coq except: - the soles of the Laver are made of a FAR SUPERIOR material, absorbing shock and lasting longer -- two things that greatly reduce the chance of getting shin splints - the Lavers are lighter than the Super Ashes (which is good) So get a pair of Lavers. Don't waste your time or money or energy on a piece of shit shoe when everyone knows the Lavers are the shit. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 1 07:17:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA03105 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 07:17:24 GMT Received: from gimmiezo@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3045) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA03043 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:54:16 GMT From: GimmieZo@aol.com Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14760 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 1998 22:54:23 -0800 Received: from GimmieZo@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OGQNa10938 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 01:54:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 01:54:17 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Repairs... Blah Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org A couple of weeks ago I lost my Facile Juice but I had no idea where until yesterday my friend told me that he found one in the gutter of a parking lot at my school. Well, I had dropped my footbag into the 2 foot deep snow (salt lake city) and didnt even notice. When he gave it to me today it was so caked in mud that i couldnt even tell the difference between the purple panels and the white ones. Also there were two really big rips in the fabric. I managed to clean it pretty well and i sewed the rips together, but i was wondering if it would be better to use that shoe repair stuff. If anyone has any suggestions on using this stuff please let me know. If i could just fix the two rips permanently then this bag would be as soft as they get. Two weeks of cars running over it breaks it in pretty well i guess... Thanks From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 1 17:28:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00686 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:28:16 GMT Received: from schr4160@tao.sou.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3705) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03703 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:44:17 GMT Received: from TAO.sou.edu (Tao.sou.edu [140.211.92.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA17858 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 03:44:26 -0800 Received: from 206.151.159.3 (ip10.sou.mind.net [206.151.159.12]) by TAO.sou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA09534 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 03:47:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34D3F1D0.38FA@tao.sou.edu> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 03:53:52 +0000 From: "schrodt, forest" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Res.[freestyle]streches Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Endor5@aol.com wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone knew some good stretches, exercises or moves that help loosen up the ankles. I have been recovering from seriously spraining my ankle and been doing alot of stretches and exercises to loosen it up again. Incidently I did not injure it while shredding but injured it while dancing after having a few gallons of beer.(pretty dumb way to allmost ruin my career of footbagging) It has been dificult to kick because the ankle is very stiff, with far less range of motion than normal. It has weakened that side clipper. What the docter told me to do in order to loosen the ankle is to spell out the letters of the alphabet with your toe while keeping you heel on the ground, using the full range of motion in your ankle. Spell out the letters as big as you can. Then stretch out your calves by pushing against a wall, keeping your leg strait and your heel flatt on the floor, lean foward untill you feel your calve stretching. If you are trying to get more flexability in your ankles so you can get a better 90 degree angle for your clipper stalls you are wasting your time. It is not a huge amount of ankle flexability that is needed for cross body tricks. Unless you have abnormally "unflexable" ankles you should not have a problem. To get a propper 90 degree flatt surface on your foot for a cross body delay you must bend your suporting leg, lowering your body so that you don't need to tweek your ankle to get that flat surface. It is all in how you use your suport leg. I have found that over time my ankles have gotten more flexable as a result of playing footbag mainly because when I was first starting out I did a lot of stepover stalls that put all my weight on the side of my foot and stretched the ankle. I hope this was some help. Have fun kickin! Forest From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 1 17:28:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00698 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:28:18 GMT Received: from dvg9@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (567) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00565 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:56:44 GMT From: DVG9@aol.com Received: from imo27.mail.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.155]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA20390 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 08:56:45 -0800 Received: from DVG9@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OBMNa13008 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:52:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:52:12 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] New Shoes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org About the great big controversy over making new shoes; If there was someone who could come up with a NICE looking design for a footbag shoe, and offer it to certain, perhaps smaller, companies, you must realize that if the shoe looks nice, OTHER people will wear it too! Once they find out its a baggin' shoe, maybe they'll get into it. I think the key here is looks, becuase, especially among highschool kids, looks are what they buy for. Perhaps making a good looking laver-like shoe is impossible, but..... Oh well.... Just one of those ideas I get... --------Dan--------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 1 17:28:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00673 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:28:14 GMT Received: from schr4160@tao.sou.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3626) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03624 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:08:47 GMT Received: from TAO.sou.edu (Tao.sou.edu [140.211.92.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA17602 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 03:08:55 -0800 Received: from 206.151.159.3 (ip01.sou.mind.net [206.151.159.3]) by TAO.sou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA09206 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 03:12:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34D3E97E.7F10@tao.sou.edu> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 03:18:22 +0000 From: "schrodt, forest" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Res.[freestyle] Repairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org GimmieZo@aol.com wrote: > >.... there were two really big rips in the fabric. I managed > to clean it pretty well and i sewed the rips together, but i was wondering if > it would be better to use that shoe repair stuff. If anyone has any > suggestions on using this stuff please let me know. If i could just fix the > two rips permanently then this bag would be as soft as they get. Two weeks of > cars running over it breaks it in pretty well i guess... Thanks I have found that if you take rubber cement or fabric glue and mix the glue with a bit of cotton from a cotton ball, you can create a excelent patch that has a very similar consistency as facile. The cotton mixed in adds strength and softness to the patch or repaired spot. I have had excellent results with this. Good luck. Forest From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 1 17:41:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00815 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:41:39 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (762) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00760 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:39:01 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA20818 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:39:02 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00757; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:38:58 GMT Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:38:58 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DVG9@aol.com From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Shoes Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 4:52 PM -0000 2/1/98, DVG9@aol.com wrote: >If there was someone >who could come up with a NICE looking design for a footbag shoe, and offer it >to certain, perhaps smaller, companies, you must realize that if the shoe >looks nice, OTHER people will wear it too! Yes, someone has already done that. Their name is Adidas. Believe it or not, the Rod Laver is quite popular right now.. There are *lots* of kids who wear them because of their "retro" value. As I said earlier, they are far more popular among teens and 20-somethings than they are among footbaggers. Look, it's all well and good if someone wants to start their own company to make shoes and hope that maybe by doing so they can also help out freestyle. But why?! (And who?!) There's already an excellent shoe being made! If you're worried about what happens when/if the Rod Laver ever stops being manufactured, well, I say let's "burn that bridge when we get to it." Anyway, Adidas claims they'll never stop making the Laver -- who knows if they're telling the truth, but so they say. It's a "classic" in the same way the Converse All Star is. Steev From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 1 18:14:34 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA00981 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:14:32 GMT Received: from allman144@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (930) Received: from imo23.mail.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.151]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA00928 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:12:37 GMT From: Allman144@aol.com Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id BDUSa01202 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:56:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:56:16 EST To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #316 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org How can you say that the temple stall isn't a valid or noteworthy move? Isn't this sport called freestyle footbag? who is the one to judge that you "can't" do that move? I know there are rules, but I don't see this move as being illegal even if some thinks it is cheesy. Tony Glick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 1 18:24:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01070 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:24:30 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1028) Received: from [207.79.78.21] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01026; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:22:44 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 10:23:52 -0800 To: Allman144@aol.com From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: temple stalls Cc: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:56 AM -0800 2/1/98, Tony Glick wrote: >How can you say that the temple stall isn't a valid or noteworthy move? Isn't >this sport called freestyle footbag? who is the one to judge that you "can't" >do that move? I know there are rules, but I don't see this move as being >illegal even if some thinks it is cheesy. Who said anyone "can't" do the move?! It's certainly not illegal, and nobody said it was. I think some of the folks on this list were just joking around. But an important point to note is that in *competition*, the name of the sport is "FOOT"bag, so moves that don't involve the feet aren't always the highest-scoring moves. They're still perfectly legitimate -- most players do them in competition (including the great Peter Irish :-) but don't remind him about the ESPN story) -- they just don't score as high as moves involving the feet (necessarily so, I would hope). Steve P.S. When replying to a message as a digest member, please try to edit the "Subject:" line to correspond to the actual subject to which you're replying. It helps people track various discussions, especially when looking back using the online archives. The subject "Re: Freestyle Digest" is a bit ambiguous. Thanks. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 1 19:17:22 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01324 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:17:19 GMT Received: from neon088@pacbell.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1181) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01179 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:55:28 GMT Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA22169 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 10:55:29 -0800 Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-217-229.nhwd02.pacbell.net [206.170.217.229]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id KAA02906 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 10:55:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34D4C513.7EFEBF90@pacbell.net> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 10:55:15 -0800 From: Sam Colclough Reply-To: freestyle@footbag.org Organization: Samuri Computing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] McDonalds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I saw a commercial for McDonalds in which one of the happy meal toys was a footbag. Pretty cool! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 1 20:19:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA01618 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:19:25 GMT Received: from jsbx@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1538) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA01536 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:07:34 GMT From: JSBX@aol.com Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.175]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA23426 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:07:36 -0800 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OOHFa14841 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:07:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <74a28ad.34d4d605@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:07:31 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] spiff shoes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all! I can't believe Dan thinks lavers don't look cool. I think they look great, especially the green sole variety. In fact, to back me up, this kid in my AP chem class compliments my shoes everyday, and asked me where he could buy a pair, and he doesn't even kick. Keep shredding everyone KeN From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 03:05:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA03469 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 03:05:00 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1962) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA01960 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:40:28 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA24834 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:40:31 -0800 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.03.0014/4c.adoc) with ESMTP id ta151443 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:49:38 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] spiff shoes Message-Id: <000000050572969214393@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 15:46:33 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, Feb 1, 1998, 2:07:31 PM US CST JSBX@aol.com wrote: >chem class compliments my shoes everyday, and asked me where he could buy a >pair, and he doesn't even kick. Yeah, I've seen Lavers - laced specifically for footbag no less - on teen models in catalogs for chains like JC Penny's and such. I just thought it was hilarious that a specific use-oriented modification of a shoe has been modeled as fashion for teens. Then again, I can be amused pretty easily sometimes. -- Derrick Fogle -- Heartland Eye Banks -- dfogle@mlerf.org -- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 03:05:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA03488 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 03:05:04 GMT Received: from casey@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2070) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02068 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:29:54 GMT Received: from gravy.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA25505 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:29:57 -0800 Received: (from casey@localhost) by gravy.netcomi.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA17785 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 10:29:39 -0600 From: Casey Zacek Message-Id: <199802011629.KAA17785@gravy.netcomi.com> Subject: [freestyle] Experiment To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 10:29:39 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL37 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok so I decided to do a little experiment the other day. I was playin around with my Carol bag while watchin TV, tossin it up in the air, etc. I have a halogen lamp in my living room, and very high ceilings, and the lamp is like 94382743897 watts or so. Just for the record, those lamps will melt a whole panel off a Carol bag in under 1 second. Assorted beads and gravel and other filler material will fly across the room when you grab the bag off the lamp as quickly as possible. The lamp will then smoke as the facile remnants and plastic filler melts and this will cause the immediate surrounding area to reek something awful. You will scream obscenities; you will weep to mourn the loss suffered when you realize that you no longer have a Carol bag. Stay tuned for details on massive repair efforts. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!#@#!#@!@#@@#@ -- Casey Zacek Sr. Systems Administrator * Programmer NETCOM Interactive From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 03:05:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA03506 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 03:05:06 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2132) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02130 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:53:06 GMT From: StinKyKiwi@aol.com Received: from imo21.mail.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.148]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26037 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:53:09 -0800 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OYUVa07010 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:28:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:28:10 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Broken in Lavers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I've had my Lavers for over about a month, I've taken out the fabric, and done all the modifications. About how long does it take for a pair of Lavers to get broken in? This is my first pair so I'm really not sure when they sre *broken in.* I also wear this pair to school. Thanks, Matt Avery From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 03:05:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA03457 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 03:04:55 GMT Received: from adriand@callplus.co.nz () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1877) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA01875 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:15:11 GMT Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (www.callplus.co.nz [202.27.101.18]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24423 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:15:12 -0800 Received: by www.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:10:38 +1300 Message-ID: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C0A4FD2@www.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] New Shoes Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:10:36 +1300 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I think its pretty hard to beat Rod Lavers as far as freestyle shoes go... But a cunning ploy would be to give away a free footbag with any pair of Rod Lavers purchased! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 03:05:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA03536 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 03:05:11 GMT Received: from endor5@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2167) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02165 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:56:04 GMT From: Endor5@aol.com Received: from imo27.mail.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.155]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26099 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:56:06 -0800 Received: from Endor5@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OHUZa13008 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:49:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:49:27 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Stalls Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi. I was wondering what a step over stall is. Isn't it just when you, say, lay a inside stall on the ground and step over it with your support leg? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 16:21:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00637 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:21:19 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (534) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00532 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:15:04 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f99.hotmail.com [207.82.250.218]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA12577 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:15:04 -0800 Received: (qmail 7168 invoked by uid 0); 2 Feb 1998 16:15:02 -0000 Message-ID: <19980202161502.7167.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.45 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Feb 1998 08:15:02 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.45] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Broken in Lavers Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 08:15:02 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ">I've had my Lavers for over about a month, I've taken out the fabric, and done >all the modifications. About how long does it take for a pair of Lavers to get >broken in? This is my first pair so I'm really not sure when they sre *broken >in.* I also wear this pair to school." If I can add my two cents I may be the only one but I don't like lavers when they are "broken in." That first day when I get them is the best and then it's down hill, anyone with me on this? -Andrew- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 16:21:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00650 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:21:21 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (222) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00220 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:10:38 GMT Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA11151 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:10:32 -0800 Received: from rac6.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac6.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.146]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24749 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:10:21 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac6.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA14026 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:10:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:10:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802021510.KAA14026@rac6.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] shoes Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org since when did lavers become light shoes? lighter than le coqs? no way! le coqs were feather light. they had lousy side surfaces, better toe surface, but absolutely no shock absorption. they did, however, have a rooster right on the shoe. lavers are the shoe of choice, but they are not light. converse all stars are fun to kick in- their flexible form fitting aspects make for great feel of the footbag. they are, however, heavier than lavers ( those real rubber soles are not light ) and have even less shock absorption than le coqs. they also have worse inside surfaces than le coqs. the outsides are pretty good, and the toes with an open toe lacing system are ridiculously huge. I actually liked the high tops- lending ankle strength without significantly affecting ankle flexibility ( just have to crank harder, have stronger ankles ), but ended up moving onto other shoes because my legs would ache from hip to toe after a day of kicking in them. rereading my longwinded gust of opinion on shoes, i actually am inlcined to believe that it may be important for footbag athletes to consider practicing in a variety of shoes, but to train seriously, of course, in the shoes that are best for competition for the individual. for me personally, the lavers are the best choice, because i set from cross body most consistently with them than with anyother shoe. okay, well, actually, i do pretty well in my net shoes setting. but a half hour in net shoes trying to set from clipper really kills my endurance. i need lighter net shoes and how. l8r- vince From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 16:38:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00772 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:38:51 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (727) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00725 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:34:10 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA13155 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:34:10 -0800 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.03.0014/4c.adoc) with ESMTP id ja151901 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:42:36 -0600 Subject: [freestyle] Lavers Message-Id: <000000051172969282422@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 10:40:22 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org (Freestyle Listserve) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org A liberally interpreted summary of recent conversations about Lavers. Player 1: Lavers are the best shoe to play footbag in. Player 2: OK, I'll get a pair. Player 1: Good. As soon as you get them, you need to cut them up so you can play footbag in them. Here's directions on how to irreprably damage your shoes. Player 3: Hey, after buying these shoes that are great for footbag, and having to cut them all up and remove stuff so they actually work, they don't seem to last very long. -- Derrick "no I don't like my damn Lavers so far" Fogle -- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 17:05:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01000 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:05:36 GMT Received: from crvich@raleigh.ibm.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (914) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00912 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:01:35 GMT Received: from fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns2d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.236]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA13921 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:01:35 -0800 Received: from rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.24]) by fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7RTP-FW1.1) with ESMTP id MAA20554 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:01:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (ode1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.178.164]) by rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id MAA21810 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:01:33 -0500 Received: from odent1.raleigh.ibm.com by ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA41314; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:01:31 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980202115933.009078f0@ode1> X-Sender: crvich@ode1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 11:59:33 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] Lavers In-Reply-To: <000000051172969282422@mlerf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:40 AM 2/2/98 -0600, Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: >A liberally interpreted summary of recent conversations about Lavers. > >Player 3: Hey, after buying these shoes that are great for footbag, and > having to cut them all up and remove stuff so they actually work, > they don't seem to last very long. Who is this mysterious Player 3 you speak of, Derrick? I've gone through 2 pairs of Lavers (in 2 years), and both times I had started wearing a hole through the *bottom* of the shoe. None of the parts I had modified (and modify them I did, heavily) fell apart. I've never heard of anyone having their Lavers break down in the areas where the typical modifications are made, assuming they didn't accidentally cut completely through the mesh. > -- Derrick "no I don't like my damn Lavers so far" Fogle -- You may require extra modifications to either the shoe or your foot, since I've heard you have an extra toe in the back. And the fact that your knees bend the opposite direction may have some effect on wear & tear as well. -- Ernest M. Crvich Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 19:03:56 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02051 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:03:34 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1896) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01894 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:47:01 GMT Received: from f140.hotmail.com (f140.hotmail.com [207.82.251.19]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17048 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:47:02 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by f140.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA13402 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:46:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802021846.KAA13402@f140.hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.45 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Feb 1998 10:46:54 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.45] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Add question Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 10:46:54 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Anyone out there who is familiar with everyone's favorite formula based judging system I'm curious what standards the judges use to determine the add value of moves. In particular pogo blur and blurry whirl I've seen listed and talked about as both four and five adds, is there some universal list to which the judges are submitted or am I at the whim of whether the body add counter likes pogos or not. I've heard vague rumors that B.A.P. was going to make a universal list but I'm not holding my breath. For the benefit of doing a routine it's hard to write in difficult moves if I'm not sure if they are worth enough adds (specifically body adds) to be justified. I'd also like to know what to do about "new" moves, or at least not universally known moves like back-spinning osis which some people I've kicked with don't even consider a "real" move. How could I find out in advance how a particular move is going to be counted, if at all? Andrew McCargar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 20:05:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02631 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:05:12 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2347) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02345 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:37:17 GMT From: Nageylum@aol.com Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.175]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA18673 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:37:19 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id PTYEa14890; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:34:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1537680.34d61fb9@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:34:15 EST To: damocles_schwert@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Add question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, I've hear the term "in-spin" and i have no clue what this means, is it simply just the direction of a spin that is done in a move or is it a move by it's self??? Have footbag can't travel, Josh C. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 20:38:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02933 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:38:39 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2767) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02765 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:21:49 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA19675 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:21:51 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] (dhcp119.atext.com [206.66.71.119]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02762; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:21:45 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199802021846.KAA13402@f140.hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:09:02 -0800 To: "Andrew Feuerdrache" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Add question Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:46 AM -0800 2/2/98, Andrew Feuerdrache wrote: > Anyone out there who is familiar with everyone's favorite formula >based >judging system I'm curious what standards the judges use to determine >the add value of moves. First of all, adds in and of themselves are only counted by one or two judges -- the add counters. They are always the top players; not just any judge is allowed to count adds. They are usually members of the BAP but that's mostly coincidence because the BAP comprise the bulk of the top competitors in freestyle anyway. But your question is actually broader than just add-values. Your question has to do with the categorization system we use to assign add-values, which effects the "composition" score, which is really measures the variety of moves of different types. >In particular pogo blur and blurry whirl I've >seen listed and talked about as both four and five adds, is there some >universal list to which the judges are submitted or am I at the whim of >whether the body add counter likes pogos or not. One way to look at it is that indeed you are at their whims. Another way to look at it is that even if there were a cheat-sheet and if it were all spelled out, and if every trick were in an encyclopedia that was immediately available to all judges (i.e., "perfect knowledge"), you'd still find that the judges are human and will miss one or two tick-marks on a given card. We assume that error is in the noise and if you consistently hit a lot of moves the judges aren't familiar with, then we have a problem. This hasn't happened so far. >I've heard vague rumors >that B.A.P. was going to make a universal list but I'm not holding my >breath. What's wrong with http://www.footbag.org/faq/moves.txt ? If there are errors there we should fix them. Please understand that there is a long, continuous process of refinemenet and improvement to our current add system. We are not at Nirvana yet. In fact, consensus is that our current system does not handle *every* case; there are moves that slip through the cracks (by necessity; else the system would become far more complicated than it already is, until someone can figure out a better system). The nice part is that the current system handles *most* of the moves reasonably well; the rest, well, we live with. >For the benefit of doing a routine it's hard to write in >difficult moves if I'm not sure if they are worth enough adds >(specifically body adds) to be justified. If you're designing your routine to fit the judging system down to the 100th of a point, you're probably going about it all wrong. :-) We had a long discussion here that you missed -- instigated by Dan The Man Kramer -- not that long ago, in which Dan made it perfectly clear, and we all pretty much agreed, that the current judging system has some errors in the weights it assigns to certain types of moves on the comp cards. That thread, while it isn't exactly the same as the issue you bring up, resolved itself with reasonable consensus that the comp card system needs some modicum of work. It's definitely not perfect, but the judging system works reasonably well, and generally speaking (except in a few exceptional cases) the results are close to "right" at events where it's implemented (so far, only Worlds and Western Regionals). >I'd also like to know what to >do about "new" moves, or at least not universally known moves like >back-spinning osis which some people I've kicked with don't even >consider a "real" move. Could you describe what you mean by "back-spinning osis"? In general, though, one should be able to reason about the add-value of a move relatively quickly (though judges are not expected to do so in the midst of counting adds). Most new moves can be analyzed in seconds, unless they fall into the gray areas of pogos (which is a "religious" issue more than an issue of simple fact), certain types of spinning moves, certain paradox moves, etc. >How could I find out in advance how a particular >move is going to be counted, if at all? Freestyle footbag competition, in its current state, is not about any individual move. It's about the VARIETY of moves you can perform, with the highest level of PRESENTATION, integrating the most DIFFICULTY with the cleanest EXECUTION. One trick is not the issue, and we are all aware that our current add system has ambiguities and holes and does not address every move. We also all agree that the current add system does not give "proper" credit to some moves, while overvaluing others. This is a fact we live with for now, until someone (?) comes up with a better system. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 20:39:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02953 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:39:28 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2701) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02699 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:11:40 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f116.hotmail.com [207.82.251.46]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA19481 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:11:42 -0800 Received: (qmail 17880 invoked by uid 0); 2 Feb 1998 20:11:15 -0000 Message-ID: <19980202201115.17878.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.156 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Feb 1998 12:11:14 PST X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.156] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Add question Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 12:11:14 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Anyone out there who is familiar with everyone's favorite >formula based judging system I'm curious what standards the judges >use to determine the add value of moves. In particular pogo blur and >blurry whirl I've seen listed and talked about as both four and five >adds, Add values are comprised of the total number of add components.(dexterities, cross-body, body, delays) Which are pretty universal. Blurry whirl is generally accepted as a 5 add move (2 dexes, 1 x-body, 1 delay, 1 body(paradox)) I'm not aware of any controversey concerning this. Pogo blur is another story. The "symposiumness" of the initial dexterity is usually discounted. That would make the move 4 adds (2 dexes, 1 delay, 1 body(paradox)) However, there are many who would give it that extra body add for the symposium to make it 5 adds. >is there some universal list to which the judges are submitted or am >I at the whim of whether the body add counter likes pogos or not. >From what I can tell, there is no list. A body add counter could give you 1 mark for the pogo, or no mark for the pogo. A master move list for judges would be nice. But the rampant human error involved in manually counting components would overshadow any slight improvement made by distributing this master move list. >For the benefit of doing a routine it's hard to write in difficult >moves if I'm not sure if they are worth enough adds (specifically >body adds) to be justified. I've run into a similar problem. Why should I do an egg-beater or double leg-over when they're only counted as a single dexterity each? The answer is: because they're cool, the judging system sucks, and f- the system. Putting forth your best performance should be first, winning second. Maybe one day the judging system will be changed to actually reward the best performance. >I'd also like to know what to do about "new" moves, or at least not >universally known moves like back-spinning osis which some people >I've kicked with don't even consider a "real" move. How could I find >out in advance how a particular move is going to be counted, if at >all? If you were to perform a move that one or more of the judges hasn't seen, then your in trouble. A paradox mirage is easy to score (dex, delay, body) because we're so familiar with it. But a new move has a good chance to be judged incorrectly. "Adds are bunk." Thanks, Dan Kramer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 20:54:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03085 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:54:28 GMT Received: from kaplanb@mscd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3043) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA03041 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:51:03 GMT Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20404; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:50:53 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-9 #24550) with SMTP id <0ENR00B01R4SMH@clem.mscd.edu>; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:48:28 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 13:48:27 -0700 (MST) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Shoes In-reply-to: To: Steve Goldberg Cc: DVG9@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Steve Goldberg wrote: > > Look, it's all well and good if someone wants to start their own company to > make shoes and hope that maybe by doing so they can also help out > freestyle. But why?! (And who?!) There's already an excellent shoe being > made! If you're worried about what happens when/if the Rod Laver ever > stops being manufactured, well, I say let's "burn that bridge when we get > to it." Anyway, Adidas claims they'll never stop making the Laver -- who > knows if they're telling the truth, but so they say. It's a "classic" in > the same way the Converse All Star is. > A) Are we a bit protective of our Lavers? B) Don't crush the creative. C) Wouldn't it be possible to suggest to Adidas to make a new line of Lavers that were a bit more hip to the times, i.e. color change or pattern enhancement of some sort. Don't get me wrong, I love my Lavers and wear them everyday, but they're not the best looking shoes I've ever bought. My point is that no one needs to start a shoe company if one that makes a good shoe exists. And I can relate to some people wanting a good LOOKING shoe as well. Just because it's a "classic" like All Stars doesn't mean there isn't room for some kind of improvement. All Stars as many can tell are not the cream of the crop. Brad From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 2 22:40:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03953 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:40:00 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3572) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03570 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:08:10 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f109.hotmail.com [207.82.250.228]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA22510 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:08:13 -0800 Received: (qmail 17805 invoked by uid 0); 2 Feb 1998 22:08:11 -0000 Message-ID: <19980202220811.17804.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.48 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:08:11 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.48] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Add question Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:08:11 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I've hear the term "in-spin" and i have no clue what this means, is it direction of a spin that is done in a move or is it a it's self??? Just to clarify the move I called in-spinning osis, whether that is it's name or not (I've never heard it called anything), is kind of a same sided spinning osis? If you set from a left footed clipper turn fully around counter clock ways and then osis with your left leg turning back the way you came ending on the same side clipper you started out on. I call it a hobit move because it's there and back again. Andrew McCargar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 3 00:12:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04680 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:11:45 GMT Received: from gimmiezo@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4129) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04127 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:06:34 GMT From: GimmieZo@aol.com Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24049 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:06:37 -0800 Received: from GimmieZo@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id FRUDa14469; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:06:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:06:27 EST To: crvich@raleigh.ibm.com, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Lavers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 98-02-02 12:07:29 EST, crvich@raleigh.ibm.com writes: << You may require extra modifications to either the shoe or your foot, since I've heard you have an extra toe in the back. And the fact that your knees bend the opposite direction may have some effect on wear & tear as well. -- Ernest M. Crvich Have footbag, will shred. >> HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHA! I cant stop laughing at that one.... HAHAHAHAHHA BHAHAHAHAH! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 3 00:12:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04692 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:11:48 GMT Received: from schr4160@tao.sou.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4318) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04316 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:46:41 GMT Received: from TAO.sou.edu (Tao.sou.edu [140.211.92.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24917 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:46:42 -0800 Received: from 206.151.159.20 (ip18.sou.mind.net [206.151.159.20]) by TAO.sou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA26693 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:50:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34D5EC99.16CA@tao.sou.edu> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 15:56:09 +0000 From: "schrodt, forest" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re:[freestyle] Add question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andrew Feuerdrache wrote: >> Just to clarify the move I called in-spinning osis, whether that is it's name or not (I've never heard it called anything), is kind of a same sided spinning osis? If you set from a left footed clipper turn fully around counter clock ways and then osis with your left leg turning back the way you came ending on the same side clipper you started out on. I call it a hobit move because it's there and back again. That sounds like a gyrating osis. No matter what you call it, it would be a four add move [1]dexterity [1]delay [1]crossbody [1]body(gyrate or spin) Pretty cool move. I had not thought of it before but will have to try it. I would imagine that you could eventualy turn that into a gyrating torque (but different than a mobius!) what would you that? Nice to hear about a different move. Forest From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 3 00:59:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA05125 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:59:26 GMT Received: from tuhuge@sfsu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4808) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA04806 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:26:04 GMT Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25879 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:26:07 -0800 Received: from tuhuge.sfsu.edu (madmax-135.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.135]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA23240; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:23:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980202042241.00691f20@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 04:22:41 -0800 To: "Daniel Kramer" From: 2 x 4 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Add question Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <19980202201115.17878.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hi all, >I've run into a similar problem. Why should I do an egg-beater or double >leg-over when they're only counted as a single dexterity each? For the theatrical look of it. Presentation Judges know it's a hard trick so it puts an impression on them when they score the points. >Putting forth your best performance should be first, winning >second. Maybe one day the judging system will be changed to actually >reward the best performance. I can't wait! 2 huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 3 02:55:19 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05779 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:55:07 GMT Received: from josh@imagiware.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5587) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA05585 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:07:44 GMT Received: from mail2.sirius.com (mail2.sirius.com [205.134.253.132]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28141 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:07:48 -0800 Received: from [205.134.230.25] (ppp-asfn-a--028.sirius.net [205.134.230.28]) by mail2.sirius.com (8.8.7/Sirius-8.8.7-97.08.12) with SMTP id SAA14748 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:07:45 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: baglady@sirius.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:14:08 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: josh@imagiware.com (Josh) Subject: [freestyle] Why? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, Do a move because its a cool move, because it looks good, because its fun, because its an amazing thing to do...who cares what the adds are and if you do, first consider the things that make footbag the great sport it is , not some silly number to measure ones greatness. Josh Casey From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 3 04:21:02 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA06506 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 04:20:40 GMT Received: from susan.oliver@shaw.wave.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6187) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA06185 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 03:30:27 GMT Received: from norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca (norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca [139.142.2.201]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29787 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:30:32 -0800 Received: from shaw.wave.ca ([24.64.13.51]) by norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA8056 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:29:46 -0700 Message-ID: <34CCC658.1C1A99C@shaw.wave.ca> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:22:32 -0700 From: "Tyler Stefaniuk" Reply-To: susan.oliver@shaw.wave.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] where to learn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was just wondering where all of you started out. Also where did you get your footbags. I can't get them on the internet because my mom won't put her credit card number on the internet. Thanks, Tyler Stefaniuk From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 3 06:09:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA07011 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 06:09:37 GMT Received: from hill9361@uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6732) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA06730 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:03:43 GMT Received: from raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (raven.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.192.43]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA31454 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:03:49 -0800 Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id VAA05760 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:03:24 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.csrv.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:03:24 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand X-Sender: hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] ordering footbags In-Reply-To: <34CCC658.1C1A99C@shaw.wave.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Tyler Stefaniuk wrote: > I was just wondering where all of you started out. Also where did you > get your footbags. I can't get them on the internet because my mom won't > put her credit card number on the internet. Okay, this might not exactly be about footbag :) Tyler, tell your mom that it is probably more risky for her to use her credit card over the phone than it is over the internet. Even in the unlikely event that she did get ganked, credit card holders can tell their bank that they did *not* make that certain charge that looks funny on the bill, and the bank will pay for it. So, don't worry when ordering footbags online......if she doesn't believe me, then maybe you could convince her to call 1-800-878-8797 (The World Footbag Association) and use her card there. __________________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 3 06:09:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA07024 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 06:09:43 GMT Received: from gimmiezo@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6839) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA06837 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:22:44 GMT From: GimmieZo@aol.com Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.174]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA31780 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:22:49 -0800 Received: from GimmieZo@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id NANVa12129; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:07:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <43b5a00.34d6a60b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:07:21 EST To: susan.oliver@shaw.wave.ca, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] where to learn Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 98-02-02 23:22:59 EST, susan.oliver@shaw.wave.ca writes: << I was just wondering where all of you started out. Also where did you get your footbags. I can't get them on the internet because my mom won't put her credit card number on the internet. >> There are tons of places you can get a good footbag to start with. You can go to www.footbag.org and get the telephone number to the WFA and order one there, or if you want a flying clipper then you can order one by calling 1-800-Foot-Fun. Check around at sporting good stores too, I even heard fred mayer carried a couple *good* beginner bags like the adidas sport models. Good luck. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 3 16:47:02 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00778 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:44:42 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (580) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAB00578 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:16:51 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f87.hotmail.com [207.82.250.193]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA07750 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:16:52 -0800 Received: (qmail 11666 invoked by uid 0); 3 Feb 1998 16:16:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19980203161651.11665.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.53 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 03 Feb 1998 08:16:51 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.53] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re:[freestyle] Add question Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 08:16:51 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org forest wrote > That sounds like a gyrating osis. No matter what you call it, it would be a four add move [1]dexterity [1]delay [1]crossbody [1]body(gyrate or spin) Not that it is going to instigate wars or decide the fate of the world but where did you get a dextarity out of that move? What I described was a double spinning ( once in either direction ) clipper which is (I think) [1] delay [1] cross body [2] body. Some players don't think it's a move because you can do it without really turning all the way around which means if you don't emphasize the turns it looks like your just dancing the twist between clipper stalls. I've found many moves like this that don't really fit in the add catigories very well, stomping double leg over, tapping stepping butterfly (which you'd just have to see), and most moves created by my mentor Mike Parker, most of which aren't redily explanible ( try to pictur a hop over baled into opposite butterfly). Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 3 16:47:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00766 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:44:40 GMT Received: from footbag13@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (252) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00250 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:11:38 GMT From: Footbag13@aol.com Received: from imo26.mail.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.154]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA06453 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:11:31 -0800 Received: from Footbag13@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OTIGa18875 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:09:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <57146258.34d7332c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:09:30 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Streches Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 98-01-31 20:42:14 EST, Endor5 writes: << I was wondering if anyone knew some good stretches, exercises or moves that help loosen up the ankles. >> I might have said it before, if so i'm gunna say it again.....Yoga! Head on over to your local library or bookstore (preferably bookstore- they will have nicer/newer books that you can keep as a reference) and take a look at the books on Yoga. There are many disciplines of yoga but if you can, find one that focuses mainly on postures. Most stretches we all learned in gym class are based on postures of Yoga. A good yoga book will describe in detail (with pictures) each posture, it's difficulty and what part(s) of the body it is meant to stretch/strengthen/massage. I swear by yoga not only to increase footbag flexibility but also to improve balance, co-ordination and to reduce muscle and joint pain. If this peaks any interest, be sure and check out the postures that open up the hips. These are excellent for just about any move involvng dexterities, cross body movement and paradoxs. Dig in... Jason Phillips Ground Phlor Digs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 3 16:47:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00752 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:44:38 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8988) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA08986 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:27:39 GMT Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA05757 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 06:27:48 -0800 Received: from rac3.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.143]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA16099 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:27:47 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac3.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA11344 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:27:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:27:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802031427.JAA11344@rac3.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] spinning moves Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org There seems to be some potential confusing developing since the use of the term back-spinning. If I have interpretted things correctly, Andrew's "back-spinning" actually trnaslates into "gyro" direction spin. from a left footed clipper into counter clockwise spin. In-spinning is actually left footed clipper into clockwise spin. As for the Add system, I really only feel like saying Dan is the Man. But keep in mind- if a performer goes out there and does exactly what they want to do, not merely what looks good on the cards, then they are likely to win on presentation. The performance is likely to be wholly theirs. The judging system as it is demands variety and good execution, and in essence, doesn't value high difficulty as much as it values good performance. Hell, have fun, make a cartoon out of it if you have to. Make a routine what you would enjoy watching, and your performance will have been worthwhile. l8r- vince "i really hope i'm not responsible for freestyle this year OB" bradley From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 3 21:58:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03174 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:58:32 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2856) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02854 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:21:16 GMT Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA14868 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:21:18 -0800 Received: from [207.208.137.65] (d104.focal2.interaccess.com [207.208.137.104]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id PAA26916; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:15:11 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:15:11 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Daniel Kramer" , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Add question Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! At 12:11 PM 2/2/98, Daniel Kramer wrote: >> Anyone out there who is familiar with everyone's favorite >formula >based judging system I'm curious what standards the judges >use to >determine the add value of moves. In particular pogo blur and >blurry >whirl I've seen listed and talked about as both four and five >adds, >Pogo blur is another story. The "symposiumness" of the initial dexterity >is usually discounted. That would make the move 4 adds (2 dexes, 1 >delay, 1 body(paradox)) However, there are many who would give it that >extra body add for the symposium to make it 5 adds. No one really thinks this is worth 5 adds, do they? >>From what I can tell, there is no list. A body add counter could give >you 1 mark for the pogo, or no mark for the pogo. > >A master move list for judges would be nice. But the rampant human error >involved in manually counting components would overshadow any slight >improvement made by distributing this master move list. You don't need a list. Any judge (even inexperienced) can, when in doubt, look for "unique" moves. If the judge is on Body, and if the move that they "didn't know", seemed to have a body in it, and was unique from any other move the player did, then it is definately a "Body" and should move on and concentrate. >If you were to perform a move that one or more of the judges hasn't >seen, then your in trouble. A paradox mirage is easy to score (dex, >delay, body) because we're so familiar with it. But a new move has a >good chance to be judged incorrectly. > Ya, but what you lose in "adds" you will (should) pick up in originality (hopefully, as no one really knows what "Personality and Originality" means... it is mostly a popularity contest, but that is another story.) Plus, even if the dex judge doesn't know the move, and see's it as unique and containing dexterity, they will give it credit. >"Adds are bunk." Well spoken, but I would add: "Adds are bunk, Variety is everything". Also, Steve G. mentioned that we on the listserve agree that the Comp card needs some tweaking, he failed to mention that the real missing link is in defining the Presentation Card. Everyone I have spoken to agrees that the main priority of changing anything should be the Presentation card. And not necessarily "changing" anything, but coming up with "Quantitative" formulas for each category (this way, the system becomes more objective... less subjective) See ya! Scott D. Enlightener@footbag.org From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 4 03:11:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA05266 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 03:10:45 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5206) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA05204 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 03:08:01 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f115.hotmail.com [207.82.250.165]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA08361 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:08:03 -0800 Received: (qmail 21370 invoked by uid 0); 4 Feb 1998 03:08:02 -0000 Message-ID: <19980204030802.21369.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.109.224.211 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:08:01 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.109.224.211] From: "The 'Mazin Josh Penney" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] where to learn Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:08:01 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >I was just wondering where all of you started out. Also where did you >get your footbags. I can't get them on the internet because my mom won't >put her credit card number on the internet. > > Thanks, Tyler Stefaniuk OH, NOOO! Not this guy again! Okay.. If you've got some ears on, my friend, try this method. The postal system. Mail a check, a money order, or call western union. they have this lovely 'wiring someone money' thing now. Get footbags from Flying Clipper: 1800 foot-fun or the WFA: 1800 878 8797 OR, look at the Footbag Worldwide Website! That is why it is there. Good luck, and if you can't here me, don't worry.. everyone else will. JP/BMP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 5 00:00:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04093 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:59:22 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3639) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03637 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:24:36 GMT Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31304 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:24:39 -0800 Received: from [207.208.136.5] (d5.focal.interaccess.com [207.208.136.5]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id RAA11195 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:24:19 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:24:19 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: [freestyle] Orlando Shred? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! Myself and Valeria are going to Disney World (Orlando, FL) starting Feb. 5 - Feb. 10. If anyone wants to hook up and shred, please call us tonight or leave a voice mail on our system... we'll be checking it regularly. 773-237-9255 We hope to shred with some locals in Orlando! See ya! Scott and Valeria Davidson From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 5 00:00:19 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04106 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:59:24 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3632) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03630 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:24:35 GMT Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31299 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:24:38 -0800 Received: from [207.208.136.5] (d5.focal.interaccess.com [207.208.136.5]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id RAA11179; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:24:16 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:24:16 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Casey Zacek , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Experiment Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Casey and Freestylers! At 10:29 AM 2/1/98, Casey Zacek wrote: >Ok so I decided to do a little experiment the other day. I was playin around >with my Carol bag while watchin TV, tossin it up in the air, etc. I have a >halogen lamp in my living room, and very high ceilings, and the lamp is like >94382743897 watts or so. ,........The lamp will then smoke as the facile >remnants and >plastic filler melts and this will cause the immediate surrounding area to >reek something awful. You will scream obscenities; you will weep to mourn >the loss suffered when you realize that you no longer have a Carol bag. >Stay tuned for details on massive repair efforts. Don't you watch 20/20, 60 minutes, or the like? There are "supposed" free safety devices to help this. It is basically a metal grid that keeps the foreign objects from incinerating your house by making direct contact with the 500W bulbs. Those lamps make good light to kick in, but the lamps are certainly hot enough to melt any plastic product. If you can't find the safety device at Home Depot or the like, then modify your lamp with chicken wire. Consumer reports says the safety devices don't always keep things like comforters and pillows from catching fire when the lamps tip over, but the grid should keep the footbag from falling in. I feel bad for you. Lost your Carol bag. Good luck on the repairs. See ya! Scott D. Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 5 00:27:47 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04302 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:27:46 GMT Received: from joshman007@yahoo.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (3450) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03448 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:38:40 GMT Received: from send1c.yahoomail.com (send1c.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA30024 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:38:44 -0800 Message-ID: <19980204204141.245.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Received: from [159.191.218.166] by send1c; Wed, 04 Feb 1998 12:41:41 PST Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:41:41 -0800 (PST) From: Josh McCall Subject: [freestyle] NE Portland, Oregon? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Does anybody live in northeast Portland Oregon??? I only know two people who are into footbag, and one is always busy. If you're bored, and live near me, I love to play footbag with you sometime. Just E-mail me. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 5 01:17:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04640 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 01:14:15 GMT Received: from jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4565) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04563 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 01:12:38 GMT Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01446 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:12:42 -0800 Received: from sloppo (Mizzou-AS6-02.missouri.edu [128.206.209.2]) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA12829 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:12:11 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980204191254.006b0638@pop.coin.missouri.edu> X-Sender: jriely@pop.coin.missouri.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 19:12:54 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Jeremiah Riely Subject: [freestyle] move name???? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was wondering what this move was called, I have seen it in several videos but it is not on the list clip > op in [dex] > same out [dex] > op clip [xbd, del] It is like a ripwalk but the same leg does both dexterities. So it is a mirage followed by a butterfly. Is there another name for this move?? --====Jeremiah Riely====-- __________________jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu___________________ / __^___ \ \ \ | / \ \ \ _|\/\/_ |^^^^^^| | | "A toast to alcohol, | | \ ____\ \ /_ | | | | the cause of, and ^^ (o)(o) \ / \ (o)(o) / (o)(o) | | | solution of, all of @ .--- | ( (o)(o) /____. @> C @ | | life's problems." | / .____\ | .___\ \ | /____/ | | | | \____/ | | | | \ | | \_____________________/\_____|________ooooo______oooo_______|___|__/ From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 5 02:42:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05162 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 02:42:50 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4824) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04822 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 01:42:20 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02090 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:42:25 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.225] (dhcptest88.atext.com [206.66.71.247]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04819; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 01:42:16 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980204191254.006b0638@pop.coin.missouri.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:44:07 -0800 To: Jeremiah Riely From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] move name???? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 5:12 PM -0800 2/4/98, Jeremiah Riely wrote: >clip > op in [dex] > same out [dex] > op clip [xbd, del] > >It is like a ripwalk but the same leg does both dexterities. So it is a >mirage followed by a butterfly. Is there another name for this move?? I believe you're referring to "stepping butterfly". We use the term "stepping" to refer to a mirage before a move (where there is no contact after the mirage); it usually involves a quick plant of both feet in succession (first setting foot, then the dexterity foot) before the rest of the move. If if the move is also paradox (for example, if the second dexterity is part of a paradox move), then it's no longer sufficient to call it "stepping" -- instead, we call it "blurry". (This is because "Blur", which is the prime example of this concept, is basically a stepping paradox mirage.) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 5 02:44:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05184 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 02:44:09 GMT Received: from jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4932) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04930 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 01:57:30 GMT Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02347 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:57:35 -0800 Received: from sloppo (Mizzou-AS6-02.missouri.edu [128.206.209.2]) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA18521 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:57:03 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980204195744.006b2e5c@pop.coin.missouri.edu> X-Sender: jriely@pop.coin.missouri.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 19:57:44 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Jeremiah Riely Subject: [freestyle] blurry whirl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was wondering about blurry whirl. clip > op in [dex] > op in [dex] > op clip [xbd, del] It says this move it 4 adds. But it is a mirage followed by a paradox whirl. Shouldn't that be 5 add? It is worth the same adds as a paradox whilr, but it has an extra dex in it. I was wondering if there was an error in the faq or if for some reason the paradox is discounted. thanks --====Jeremiah Riely====-- __________________jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu___________________ / __^___ \ \ \ | / \ \ \ _|\/\/_ |^^^^^^| | | "A toast to alcohol, | | \ ____\ \ /_ | | | | the cause of, and ^^ (o)(o) \ / \ (o)(o) / (o)(o) | | | solution of, all of @ .--- | ( (o)(o) /____. @> C @ | | life's problems." | / .____\ | .___\ \ | /____/ | | | | \____/ | | | | \ | | \_____________________/\_____|________ooooo______oooo_______|___|__/ From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 5 03:03:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA05429 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 03:03:18 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5213) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA05211 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 02:51:25 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03438 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:51:30 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.225] (dhcptest88.atext.com [206.66.71.247]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA05206; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 02:51:22 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980204195744.006b2e5c@pop.coin.missouri.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:52:48 -0800 To: Jeremiah Riely From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] blurry whirl Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 5:57 PM -0800 2/4/98, Jeremiah Riely wrote: >I was wondering about blurry whirl. >It says this move it 4 adds. But it is a mirage followed by a paradox >whirl. Shouldn't that be 5 add? It is worth the same adds as a paradox >whilr, but it has an extra dex in it. I was wondering if there was an error >in the faq or if for some reason the paradox is discounted. I believe that's an error. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 5 22:40:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02957 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 22:38:55 GMT Received: from hamm9517@novell.uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2669) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02667 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:53:09 GMT Received: from harrier.csrv.uidaho.edu (harrier.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.119.224]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22958 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:53:10 -0800 Received: from hickory.csrv.uidaho.edu (hickory.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.4.3]) by harrier.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_12836)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA16215 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:50:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from HICKORY/SpoolDir by hickory.csrv.uidaho.edu (Mercury 1.31); 5 Feb 98 13:50:37 +0800 Received: from SpoolDir by HICKORY (Mercury 1.31); 5 Feb 98 13:50:02 +0800 From: "Lee Marvin Hammons" Organization: University of Idaho To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:49:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [freestyle] shoes X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Lee Marvin Hammons" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <89A62E5080@hickory.csrv.uidaho.edu> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org With the growing popularity of footbag, isn't it about time that we had our own footbag hero shoes. Basketball has a ton of shoes named after the great ball players, like Jordans, David Robinsons, etc..., tennis has named shoes, the Rod Laver obviously. I think that it is time that we saw the Adidas Air Shultz, named after The Man Himself. It just seems strange to me that the footbag shoe of choice is named after a tennis player. Lee From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 5 22:59:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03140 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 22:59:28 GMT Received: from adriand@callplus.co.nz () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3067) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03065 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 22:52:43 GMT Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (www.callplus.co.nz [202.27.101.18]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA24326 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:52:46 -0800 Received: by www.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:48:05 +1300 Message-ID: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C0A502D@www.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] shoes Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:48:05 +1300 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Maybe we can talk Kenny into changing his name to Rod Laver... -----Original Message----- From: Lee Marvin Hammons [SMTP:hamm9517@novell.uidaho.edu] Sent: Thursday, 5 February 1998 16:50 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] shoes With the growing popularity of footbag, isn't it about time that we had our own footbag hero shoes. Basketball has a ton of shoes named after the great ball players, like Jordans, David Robinsons, etc..., tennis has named shoes, the Rod Laver obviously. I think that it is time that we saw the Adidas Air Shultz, named after The Man Himself. It just seems strange to me that the footbag shoe of choice is named after a tennis player. Lee From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 6 00:08:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA03887 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:08:26 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3190) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03188 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 23:03:45 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f85.hotmail.com [207.82.250.191]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA24586 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:03:48 -0800 Received: (qmail 13076 invoked by uid 0); 5 Feb 1998 23:03:47 -0000 Message-ID: <19980205230347.13074.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.14.182 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 05 Feb 1998 15:03:47 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.14.182] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] shoes Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 15:03:47 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >With the growing popularity of footbag, isn't it about time that we >had our own footbag hero shoes. Basketball has a ton of shoes named >after the great ball players, like Jordans, David Robinsons, etc..., >tennis has named shoes, the Rod Laver obviously. I think that it is >time that we saw the Adidas Air Shultz, named after The Man Himself. >It just seems strange to me that the footbag shoe of choice is named >after a tennis player. > >Lee > Here, here, we can call it the Saint Schults, or maby just call it The Enforcer. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 6 01:39:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA07599 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 01:39:07 GMT Received: from zogg13@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7535) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA07533 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 01:32:14 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f124.hotmail.com [207.82.251.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA27794 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:32:19 -0800 Received: (qmail 15990 invoked by uid 0); 6 Feb 1998 01:32:16 -0000 Message-ID: <19980206013216.15989.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.120.86.42 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 05 Feb 1998 17:32:16 PST X-Originating-IP: [204.120.86.42] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] where to learn Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 20:32:16 EST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > >I was just wondering where all of you started out. Also where did you >get your footbags. I can't get them on the internet because my mom won't >put her credit card number on the internet. > > Thanks, Tyler Stefaniuk > Hi Tyler, I would have answered this this Q sooner but The Teachers at my school have been working my butt off. Where I started? the living room of my house. My brother brought a bag home one day and I said "cool" and I've been sucking ever since :) Go to FootMart on the internet thats is where I get my stuff. They have a number you can call to talk to someone instead of puting your credit card # over the internet. If you can't find the number e-mail me and I'll find it. I've got to go write an essay at the moment so I'm ending it here. _-Steve-_ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 6 05:59:46 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA08605 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 05:59:38 GMT Received: from m27.boston.juno.com (m27.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.186]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA08306 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 04:17:48 GMT Received: (from neilbp@juno.com) by m27.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id VaV11727; Thu, 05 Feb 1998 21:19:30 EST To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: mind games Message-ID: <19980205.211836.8215.1.neilbp@juno.com> References: <199801282350.XAA03876@eniac.yak.net.taz> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,4,8-44 From: neilbp@juno.com (Neil B Payne) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 21:19:30 EST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey hey, Just wanted to say that I thought this post was really nice. Ethan those are some nice words that you have graced the footbag community with. I am thinking of printing them and reading them occasionally for inspiration. While I'm here, the new version of www.footbag.org looks great. I just downloaded quicktime at work so I have been spending these rainy lunch times I have had watching vid. I am really happy to be able to spend lunch time watching freestyle. Very impressive footage. Okay, take care all, Neil >------------------------------ > >From: Ethan Klein >Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:24:12 -0500 >Subject: [freestyle] mind games > >The bag gets tossed to a fellow circle shredder, he commences his >dance, you follow his progression, noting technique, voicing >encouragement, planning your own. Possible combinations shuffle for >selection within your eager anticipation, a projected image of success > >whets your pallet and captivates your desire. The combination proves >resolute in your mind's eye. Romanticized and glorified, silent and >graceful, slicing the ethos with brilliant precision. The bag is >finally tossed your way. Feel the comfort of it striking your insteps > >as you kick it, establishing rhythm and balance, gearing up for the >zone. Fwhooomm, an extreme mixture of kinetic exertion and >unconscious habit enraptures your being. Your pre-visualized combo >flows out into actualized niceness. It catalyzes you into the >unreflective effectiveness and personified beauty of the intangible >freestyle bliss. You toss the bag like a delicate feather around and >through your rampaging legs and body. Each clipper caressing >sympathetically, each leg dexterity delivering automatically, moves >happen the instant they cognitatively occur. Slicing, dicing, firing, >erupting. NO! The bag falls, the zone is over, gravity wins, the >sedate perspective of reality returns, a surge of continuing energy >coarses up and out of you. You pass the bag... gasp for air... >anticipate the next go around. >Ethan > >------------------------------ > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 6 06:02:59 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA08661 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 06:02:58 GMT Received: from shredstein@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8617) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA08615 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 06:00:00 GMT From: ShReDStEiN@aol.com Received: from imo30.mail.aol.com (imo30.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.168]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA32028 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 22:00:06 -0800 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo30.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OXNKa08050 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 01:00:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 01:00:00 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Kenny Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok, first of all people His name is S-H-U-L-T-S. Second He doesn't want to exploit himself as such fine, upstanding, rich and greedy basketball players do. The shoe changes with time but Kenny's affect on the sport is everlasting. He doesn't need his name on a shoe, a commercial, etc. just his presence in the area of freestyle should be enough to earn respect. I'm not putting anyone down just stating the facts. Kenny "is" the man... shred 'til death... Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 6 23:50:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA04342 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 23:49:05 GMT Received: from tuhuge@sfsu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3749) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03747 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 22:51:34 GMT Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17215 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:51:38 -0800 Received: from tuhuge.sfsu.edu (madmax-184.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.184]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA06109 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:51:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980206025022.00698d0c@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 02:50:22 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: 2 x 4 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Kenny In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 01:00 AM 2/6/98 EST, you wrote: >He doesn't need his name on a shoe, a commercial, etc. just his presence in >the area of freestyle should be enough to earn respect. Unfortunately, his presence will be minimal now that he is retired. Kenny is the bomb. He should make a comeback to freestyle for one last year. 2 huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Feb 7 01:50:19 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA05109 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 01:47:48 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4983) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04981 for ; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 01:19:15 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20378 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 17:19:19 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA15892; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 17:19:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 17:19:16 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: 2 x 4 cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Kenny In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980206025022.00698d0c@sfsu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, 2 x 4 wrote: > At 01:00 AM 2/6/98 EST, you wrote: > >He doesn't need his name on a shoe, a commercial, etc. just his presence in > >the area of freestyle should be enough to earn respect. > > > Unfortunately, his presence will be minimal now that he is retired. > Kenny is the bomb. He should make a comeback to freestyle for one last year. Good call. I'm sure everyone would like Kenny to have one last year of shred before officially retiring. I'm not exactly sure if Kenny has quit from the sport all together or is it just singles net?? The way it sounds, it doesn't look like it's going to happen. The possibility of Kenny coming back is probably easier said then done. If I were him, I'd be tired of playing the same sport intensely for 20 years. It's even harder being one of the top players for 20 years; there's too much pressure to deal with. It would be nice to see him play for fun instead of competition; a more relaxed approach to footbag. Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Feb 7 18:45:41 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA00850 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 18:43:32 GMT Received: from tuhuge@sfsu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (415) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00413 for ; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:16:21 GMT Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02653 for ; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:16:22 -0800 Received: from tuhuge.sfsu.edu (madmax-57.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.57]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA22282; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:16:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980206211525.006950b4@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 21:15:25 -0800 To: Verhoef Anne From: 2 x 4 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Kenny Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19980206025022.00698d0c@sfsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 05:19 PM 2/6/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, 2 x 4 wrote: > >> At 01:00 AM 2/6/98 EST, you wrote: >> >He doesn't need his name on a shoe, a commercial, etc. just his presence in >> >the area of freestyle should be enough to earn respect. >> >> >> Unfortunately, his presence will be minimal now that he is retired. >> Kenny is the bomb. He should make a comeback to freestyle for one last year. > >Good call. I'm sure everyone would like Kenny to have one last year of >shred before officially retiring. I'm not exactly sure if Kenny has quit >from the sport all together or is it just singles net?? I talked to kendall and she said he's not going to compete in any event this year at worlds but kenny said they only event would consider was doubles net. > The way it >sounds, it doesn't look like it's going to happen. The possibility of >Kenny coming back is probably easier said then done. If I were him, I'd >be tired of playing the same sport intensely for 20 years. It's even >harder being one of the top players for 20 years; there's too much >pressure to deal with. I agree with you. But it would be nice to see kenny redeme himself after his last worlds routine in 96'. I'm sure that's not the way he wanted to go out (with the hole scorpion's tail drop thing). >It would be nice to see him play for fun >instead of competition; a more relaxed approach to footbag. I totally agree. I hope he plays at all. 2 huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Feb 7 18:45:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA00863 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 18:43:36 GMT Received: from tuhuge@sfsu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (498) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00496 for ; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:21:46 GMT Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02759 for ; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:21:48 -0800 Received: from tuhuge.sfsu.edu (madmax-57.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.57]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA22630; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:21:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980206212049.00699230@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 21:20:49 -0800 To: Nageylum@aol.com From: 2 x 4 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Kenny Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 07:35 PM 2/6/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-06 19:05:01 EST, you write: > >> Unfortunately, his presence will be minimal now that he is retired. >> Kenny is the bomb. He should make a comeback to freestyle for one last >year. >> >> >what's up?, > >I thought Kenny only retired from singles net this year, and retired from >freestyle a couple years ago. but he is the man. It hurts him to do too much styling. It doesn't hurt him to play net. He retired from singles net but this was the first year shults didn't compete in freestyle since the very beginning where he was the first to win it. And yep, he's the deal and he has been so for 20 years. 2 huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 8 09:11:48 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA03387 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:11:43 GMT Received: from dezoderant@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3147) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA03145 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 07:28:36 GMT From: DeZoderant@aol.com Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.169]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA15056 for ; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 23:28:42 -0800 Received: from DeZoderant@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id AHGa014251 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 02:28:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <75d824c.34dd5e9a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 02:28:24 EST To: Freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Tricks of Trade Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey i was just wondering how the Tricks of the Trade video by Kenny Shults is... I just ordered it from the WFA but im wondering if it is worth my 20$. Is it also "UP TO PAR" with todays moves or does it just show really old stuff like around the worlds and mirages? Any info would be great. thanks. Joey From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 8 09:25:50 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA03441 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:25:45 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3407) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA03405 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:24:48 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA16941 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 01:24:56 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA03402; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:24:44 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <75d824c.34dd5e9a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 01:26:32 -0800 To: Joey Wilson From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Tricks of Trade Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:28 PM -0800 2/7/98, Joey Wilson wrote: >Hey i was just wondering how the Tricks of the Trade video by Kenny Shults >is... I just ordered it from the WFA but im wondering if it is worth my 20$. >Is it also "UP TO PAR" with todays moves or does it just show really old stuff >like around the worlds and mirages? Any info would be great. thanks. How many times do we have to keep telling people this? :-) Tricks of the Trade is the best way to learn freestyle short of being taught by one of the pros. The video has 44 tricks that start out basic and work their way up to the most advanced concepts. There are definitely new tricks since the video came out, but if you master all the tricks in this video, you'll be a superstar. As we keep saying, here and on the website FAQ, if you are serious about learning to play freestyle footbag, you should get: - the Tricks of the Trade instructional videotape - the Adidas "Rod Laver" mesh tennis shoes (modified/laced as per FAQ) - a footbag designed for freestyle (i.e., adidas 32-panel, 32-panel Juice, Twisted, etc.) For more information, see the non-profit footbag information site, http://www.footbag.org/ in the FAQ (frequently-asked questions) and Equipment sections. Steve P.S. Joey -- if you want to learn freestyle from a good player, hook up with Dylan Cole and get him to show you a thing or two. He lives in SLC. Who knows, his dad Eric may still have some of those awesome Cole's freestyle bags. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 8 23:13:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA01946 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:11:47 GMT Received: from jsbx@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1738) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA01736 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:31:13 GMT From: JSBX@aol.com Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.176]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26462 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 14:31:15 -0800 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OXLZa25697 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:30:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:30:52 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] freestyle: pixie osis Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey kickers! Today in my neighbor's driveway, i was hitting this little ditty consistently: Left toe stall, left in to out dex, right osis. (Toe, same in, op osis) Is this a pixie osis? Before everyone jumps on me telling me I could have looked it up, my web browser is fuct up, and all i can do is kick in my driveway and e-mail. Oh yeah, is this a 4 add move? KeN From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 8 23:13:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA01959 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:12:01 GMT Received: from dezoderant@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1625) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA01623 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:15:43 GMT From: DeZoderant@aol.com Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.170]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26217; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 14:15:45 -0800 Received: from DeZoderant@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OFMFa04922; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:15:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:15:20 EST To: brat@footbag.org Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Tricks of Trade Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 98-02-08 04:24:57 EST, brat@footbag.org writes: << P.S. Joey -- if you want to learn freestyle from a good player, hook up with Dylan Cole and get him to show you a thing or two. He lives in SLC. Who knows, his dad Eric may still have some of those awesome Cole's freestyle bags. >> Yeah, me and Dylan are good friends but i dont see him much anymore. We used to kick when we were in junior high together but i have only kicked a few times since then with Dylan. He is better than me but not that much better, he definatly has more experience than me anyway. I called him the other day to see if i could get a bag but he said they weren't making them AT ALL. Oh well, maybe ill give him a call when the weather gets a little better. Adios. Thanks for the video info. Joey From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 9 01:24:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA02521 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 01:23:06 GMT Received: from dezoderant@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2447) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA02445 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:58:11 GMT From: DeZoderant@aol.com Received: from imo27.mail.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.155]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28928 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:58:15 -0800 Received: from DeZoderant@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id ODKTa13008; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:58:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7883abc0.34de549d@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:58:03 EST To: JSBX@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] freestyle: pixie osis Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 98-02-08 18:15:08 EST, JSBX@aol.com writes: << Hey kickers! Today in my neighbor's driveway, i was hitting this little ditty consistently: Left toe stall, left in to out dex, right osis. (Toe, same in, op osis) Is this a pixie osis? Before everyone jumps on me telling me I could have looked it up, my web browser is fuct up, and all i can do is kick in my driveway and e-mail. Oh yeah, is this a 4 add move? KeN >> Sounds like a pixie osis to me as long as the set is drifting to your right from the left pixie set. Because you cant do a right foot osis without having the footbag on your right, or you can add another half spin (180 degrees) to get it on your right. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 10 07:38:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA06600 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:37:16 GMT Received: from jsbx@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5681) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA05679 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:13:13 GMT From: JSBX@aol.com Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.175]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA25142 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:13:19 -0800 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OEEHa05582 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:13:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:13:11 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Nagano Freestyle Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. With all this Olympics coverage, I can only wonder out loud, when will footbag be an olympic sport? Come on, if synchronized swimming, badmington, ping pong, and snowboarding can make the cut as competitive olympic sports, why isn't there a footbag category yet? Is anyone pushing for one? Somebody should. I'd definitely like to see it in my lifetime. I know I'd never make the American team, but I could compete for Spain which would rock. My 2 cents. Shred happy. KeN, USM From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 10 19:25:48 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02011 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:24:11 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (156) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA00154 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:57:00 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f125.hotmail.com [207.82.251.4]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA00094 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:57:00 -0800 Received: (qmail 7517 invoked by uid 0); 10 Feb 1998 14:56:59 -0000 Message-ID: <19980210145659.7515.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.109.224.215 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:56:58 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.109.224.215] From: "A Chubby Josh Penney" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Nagano Freestyle Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:56:58 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Hey all. >With all this Olympics coverage, I can only wonder out loud, when will footbag >be an olympic sport? Footbag Net, maybe- freestyle, never. It's just too hard to follow if you're not really into it. Plus it just isn't that marketable. I could see billboards with my face on them, but that's me. Could you imagine Vince Bradley t-shirts? If you wanted to make the Spanish team you'd have to Skool your ARSE off. Actually, I think you're a little too old, already . JP-FBI ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 10 21:30:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03014 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:29:58 GMT Received: from hill9361@uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2513) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02511 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:36:43 GMT Received: from raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (raven.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.192.43]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07761 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:36:39 -0800 Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA06208 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:36:33 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.csrv.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:36:32 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand X-Sender: hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Olympics? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > With all this Olympics coverage, I can only wonder out loud, when will footbag > be an olympic sport? Come on, if synchronized swimming, badmington, ping > pong, and snowboarding can make the cut as competitive olympic sports, why > isn't there a footbag category yet? Is anyone pushing for one? Somebody I bet Peter Irish would rather have a few thousand dollars than a little gold plated metal. I know I would. __________________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 10 21:54:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03315 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:54:39 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3215) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA03213 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:51:35 GMT From: StinKyKiwi@aol.com Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.175]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10039 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:51:36 -0800 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OORFa05582 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:51:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1a47f424.34e0cbe4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:51:30 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Olympics? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 98-02-10 16:32:51 EST, you write: << I bet Peter Irish would rather have a few thousand dollars than a little gold plated metal. I know I would. >> For what it's worth...anyone who *really* loves the sport for what it's worth would more likely want the glory or getting the metal, then the money. I am sure that some might say they'd take the money, but it is a lot more of an accomplishment to win a gold, then some money. It *is* for the glory, and at last, the money. Matt Avery From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 10 21:54:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03334 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:54:42 GMT Received: from zogg13@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3237) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA03235 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:52:18 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f70.hotmail.com [207.82.250.156]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA10072 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:52:19 -0800 Received: (qmail 5508 invoked by uid 0); 10 Feb 1998 21:52:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19980210215213.5507.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.120.86.70 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:52:09 PST X-Originating-IP: [204.120.86.70] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Nagano Freestyle Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:52:09 EST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>Hey all. >>With all this Olympics coverage, I can only wonder out loud, when will >footbag >>be an olympic sport? > >Footbag Net, maybe- freestyle, never. It's just too hard to follow if >you're not really into it. Plus it just isn't that marketable. I could >see billboards with my face on them, but that's me. Could you imagine >Vince Bradley t-shirts? >If you wanted to make the Spanish team you'd have to Skool your ARSE >off. Actually, I think you're a little too old, already . > >JP-FBI > > I think footbag being an Olympic sport would be amazing. But I disagree with josh on freestyle. People would watch it because it would be amazing to see. People come up to me when I'm playing and I truely suck compared to the people who compete. An Example would be figure skateing. I see a few sec. of that and they are saying things Like triple toe loop and stuff like that. I have no clue what that means. I just look on and say "wow if I tried that I'd end up on my @$$. One more thing.... what do you mean by marketable? How the in the heck is a sport like ping pong marketable? Well thats all I got to say. _-Steve-_ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 10 21:56:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03373 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:56:34 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3276) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA03274 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:53:27 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10115 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:53:30 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.193] (dhcptest34.atext.com [206.66.71.193]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA03271; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:53:18 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:55:12 -0800 To: JSBX@aol.com From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Nagano Freestyle Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 8:13 PM -0800 2/9/98, JSBX@aol.com wrote: >Come on, if synchronized swimming, badmington, ping >pong, and snowboarding can make the cut as competitive olympic sports, why >isn't there a footbag category yet? Is anyone pushing for one? Somebody >should. I'd definitely like to see it in my lifetime. I think having footbag become a legitimate sport, whether it's in the olympics per se or not, is a goal many of us share. I've been working towards this goal from my side for a long time. Several things really need to happen before we can seriously consider Olympic status (and remember, even though footbag is 25 years old, it's still an extremely young sport even compared to the other new sports making it into the Olympics). Those things are: 1. we need better organization; i.e., an international governing body with a well-defined structure for membership countries, each organized as their own "federations" within the specific countries; 2. we need a plan; i.e., first of all, what is the actual goal, and secondly, who will do what, when, to deliver on it; 3. we need even better level of play; before footbag (freestyle or not) can make it into the mainstream (if that's our goal), we need even better quality as we present ourselves to the public; I think we're very close, but we still need a couple years to develop (we're definitely over the proverbial hump); 4. we need more players (especially in other countries); while the internet has allowed us to spread the word of our somewhat-organized sport, we are still a long way from having organized events with lots of competitors in multiple countries -- this year's Worlds was definitely an indication that the trend is not strong enough yet -- only four countries were truly represented (USA, Canada, Finland, and New Zealand); and just in case you didn't know, the Olympic Committee won't consider a sport even as a "demonstration sport" unless it is present in some number of countries (I think it's 7) in an organized fashion with regular events and a clearly-defined infrastructure linking it to the international sport (i.e., the first bullet above). So just "attending Worlds" isn't really enough. My personal mission has been to develop the sport on these four fronts, to varying degrees and in varying ways, with this ultimate Olympic goal in mind. I think we're doing well, and we're on the right track. I've been working with a bunch of people, partly the IFAB, partly the WFA, partly the various other movers and shakers in the sport, to try to put together a plan to get #1-2 above to happen. It will require a lot of work, and a lot of commitment. There has been very positive support for this plan (in its current unfinished state) from everyone I've talked to. The issue now will be the amount of time, human resources, and money required to finish, and then to deliver on the plan. I hope I'll have more to report on this as the year rolls by. But even my somewhat ambitious plan doesn't necessarily do much for #3-4, and doesn't involve us attempting to get Olympic status for years to come. I think patience, on this front, is a necessary skill. But I'll leave you with one thought: before we can have "footbag" become an Olympic sport, don't you think it would be nice if the word were actually in the English dictionary? Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 11 02:47:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05575 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 02:47:40 GMT Received: from mzelov@sun1.wetmore.amphi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3534) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03532 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:03:19 GMT Received: from sun1.wetmore.amphi.com (NS.AMPHI.COM [206.210.128.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA10388 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:03:21 -0800 Received: by sun1.wetmore.amphi.com; id AA16855; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:03:36 -0700 Message-Id: <34E0CEF0.924@sun1.wetmore.amphi.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:04:32 -0700 From: marc zelov Organization: amphi public schools X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: [freestyle] Olympics?] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Matt Hillebrand wrote: > I bet Peter Irish would rather have a few thousand dollars than a little > gold plated metal. I know I would. > I/m sorry, but let me be the first to say that this is an extremely whimpy response. Not all athletes are out there for the money, ESPECIALLY olympic atheletes. Yes, recently the olympic comitees have been allowing more and more "professional" athletes to participate in the games. This is an issue that concerns many...the commercialization of the olympic games. However, consider that the vast majority of olympic athletes do not compete for the money. Heck, most of the games are not even close to being marketable. I think that the important thing here is the fact that footbag deserves recognition as an extremely competitive international sport. Wether recognition via ESPN'S X-Games or the olympics, the time is due. Think about the exposure and expanse the sport will undergo, the potential is awesome. As for the money, common , money is the root of all evil anyway. Let Peter Irish speak for himself. $1000 doesn't make that big a deal to most mature people. Plus, with exposure comes opportunity for endorsement and that is where the money is, ask Michael Jordan. Love YA, Marc Zelov http://www.footbag.org/newclubs/listclub/amphi From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 11 02:49:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05603 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 02:49:13 GMT Received: from jjones@mapquest.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4116) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04114 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:22:24 GMT Received: from wildes.mapquest.com (wildes.mapquest.com [205.169.153.92]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12393 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:22:28 -0800 Received: from boyd.mapquest (boyd.mapquest.com [205.169.153.37]) by wildes.mapquest.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id RAA29558 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:19:55 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980210161307.008e1230@wildes.mapquest.com> X-Sender: jjones@wildes.mapquest.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:13:07 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Jane Jones Subject: Re: [freestyle] Nagano Freestyle Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >But I'll leave you with one thought: before we can have "footbag" become an >Olympic sport, don't you think it would be nice if the word were actually >in the English dictionary? > > Steve If it helps any, I submited "footbag" as a word to the A.Word.A.Day. website about 5 months ago. Never checked back to see if they processed my request to add it to the word list. Hmmm, I'm pretty sure I used a definition off one of your pages Steve...maybe someone can submit I better def. than I did. If anyone is interested, maybe they'd want to surf around on the web and see if our good 'ol buddy Webster has a site laying around waiting for new words. Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 11 02:49:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05623 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 02:49:16 GMT Received: from f0ne@concentric.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4680) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA04678 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:20:28 GMT Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13529 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:20:32 -0800 Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff [206.173.119.90]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/01/20 5.9)) id TAA03615; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:20:31 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from fone (cnc003053.concentric.net [206.83.89.53]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.8.8) id TAA25378; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:20:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34E0EE97.3025@concentric.net> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:19:35 -0600 From: Steve Wallace X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-GZone (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Washing Lavers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I was just wondering whats the best way to wash your lavers? do the modifications make them more likely to wear down in a machine wash? eh juss wondering mine are realllllll dirty, dont wear your lavers on a muddy day =) Steve Wallace From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 11 02:49:19 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05641 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 02:49:19 GMT Received: from aloe@intouch.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4966) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04964 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:32:40 GMT Received: from srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (srv1.reelwest.bc.ca [207.194.197.99]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA14995 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:32:44 -0800 Received: from 207.194.197.160 (unverified [207.194.197.160]) by srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:31:52 -0800 Message-ID: <34E08EFC.2EF0@intouch.bc.ca> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:31:41 +0000 From: "J. Pendray" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Nagano Freestyle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Josh Penney wrote: > Footbag Net, maybe- freestyle, never. It's just too hard to follow if > you're not really into it. Plus it just isn't that marketable. I could > see billboards with my face on them, but that's me. Could you imagine > Vince Bradley t-shirts? I hereby declare myself first in line to buy a Vince Bradley T-shirt! And Steve Goldberg wrote: > I think we're doing well, and we're on the right track. I've been working > with a bunch of people, partly the IFAB, partly the WFA, partly the various > other movers and shakers in the sport, to try to put together a plan to get > #1-2 above to happen. It will require a lot of work, and a lot of > commitment. There has been very positive support for this plan (in its > current unfinished state) from everyone I've talked to. The issue now will > be the amount of time, human resources, and money required to finish, and > then to deliver on the plan. More cheers for Steve! And thank you again for putting in all this work and commitment already! juliet From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 11 02:49:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05660 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 02:49:23 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5488) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA05486 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 02:35:36 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f71.hotmail.com [207.82.250.157]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA16220 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:35:41 -0800 Received: (qmail 17528 invoked by uid 0); 11 Feb 1998 00:48:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19980211004857.17527.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.58 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:48:56 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.58] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Nagano Freestyle Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:48:56 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > I think footbag being an Olympic sport would be amazing. But I >disagree with josh on freestyle. People would watch it because it would >be amazing to see. People come up to me when I'm playing and I truely >suck compared to the people who compete. An Example would be figure >skateing. I see a few sec. of that and they are saying things Like >triple toe loop and stuff like that. I have no clue what that means. I >just look on and say "wow if I tried that I'd end up on my @$$. One >more thing.... what do you mean by marketable? How the in the heck is a >sport like ping pong marketable? Well thats all I got to say. First, and someone tell me if I'm wrong on this, Ping Pong is a brand name much like (shudder ) hack sack. Aside from that Freestyle is not marketable, anyone who was waiting for that million dollar shoe sponsorship contract I'm going to have to crush your dreams much like a china cup hit with a wrecking ball. Firstly the average freestyler is going through about three bags and a pair of shoes a year ( in my experience ) that's about $100 that'll get you about two thirds of a pair of air Jordan's or a couple nose bleeder seats at a Blazer game, or about one third of a snow board, or you can ice skate on one foot for a year ( think what that would do for your balance ). Now if we are going for paying spectators don't count on them either. Ice skating like most popular sports has the advantage of space. Even the people in the nose bleeder seats can see what is happening and the skaters in motion. Even if you don't understand the move names you can understand what is happening. When you see a triple axle you can appreciate that it is $*&#ing hard but something like paridox blender just looks to most people like you are flailing your leg around. Net bag will probably make it to the Olympics first, there is drama, a fight between two opposing sides instead of just one player showing there skill. There is the sense of speed, big spikes, big jumps, fast serves, tension awaiting the serve and yes the exuiptment accially costs something. I love freestyle and I hope it'll be around forever, for those who have the skill, and those who can see it's complexity and grace, but if your waiting for the big money and Olympic recognition don't hold you breath too long. Andrew, ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 11 06:48:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA07477 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 06:48:21 GMT Received: from gmarie@silcom.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6537) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA06535 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 04:15:14 GMT Received: from beach.silcom.com (beach.silcom.com [199.201.128.19]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18162 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:15:19 -0800 Received: from dial (pm8-34.sba1.avtel.net [207.71.222.234]) by beach.silcom.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA06746 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:11:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:11:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802110411.UAA06746@beach.silcom.com> X-Sender: gmarie@mail.silcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Gay Marie Subject: [freestyle] Shoe color Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just orderd a new pair of laver's from the online Footmart catalog, and I was wondering what the coloring sceme is? ...and I'd like to put my good word in for the people at the WFA, when ever I do buisness with them I always get the nicest personal service I've had on the web. ;) Ps: I was wondering what kind of music intrest's everyone out there has. Lates Brandon Parker From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 11 06:48:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA07490 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 06:48:25 GMT Received: from minyang@uiuc.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7179) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA07177 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 05:52:22 GMT Received: from aimhi2.aimhi.com ([205.243.42.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19710 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:52:24 -0800 Received: from uiuc.edu (crh2207.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.193.217]) by aimhi2.aimhi.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA21210 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:01:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34E13CF0.84F7EA25@uiuc.edu> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:53:52 -0600 From: Shmuk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Nagano Freestyle References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hi, Ping Pong is not a brand name....Ping Pong is very marketable.....maybe not in the US, but it is big in Europe and Asia...not too many people would know what footbag is, but they know what Ping Pong/Table Tennis is....Ping Pong is more popular in Europe and Asia than Footbag, alot more...Ping Pong was invented in the early 1800s in England, that's almost 200 years ago, it deserves to be in the Olympic(officially a full medal sport in 1988....since it is so popular...But hacky sack is getting there, just have to wait a little longer...we need more promotions.....more tournaments.....and most importantly, more fans...... shmuk JSBX@aol.com wrote: > Hey all. > With all this Olympics coverage, I can only wonder out loud, when will footbag > be an olympic sport? Come on, if synchronized swimming, badmington, ping > pong, and snowboarding can make the cut as competitive olympic sports, why > isn't there a footbag category yet? Is anyone pushing for one? Somebody > should. I'd definitely like to see it in my lifetime. I know I'd never make > the American team, but I could compete for Spain which would rock. > My 2 cents. > Shred happy. > KeN, USM From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 11 17:03:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00888 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:02:10 GMT From: Leilani Rector Received: from bmedprog@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (191) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00189 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:13:19 GMT Received: from mcmail.vanderbilt.edu (inet-gateway.mc.Vanderbilt.Edu [160.129.40.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA26211 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:13:18 -0800 Received: from in2.mcmail.vanderbilt.edu by mcmail.vanderbilt.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA16278; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:11:49 -0600 Received: from ccMail by in2.mcmail.vanderbilt.edu (SMTPLINK V2.11) id AA887217062; Wed, 11 Feb 98 09:09:21 CST Date: Wed, 11 Feb 98 09:09:21 CST Message-Id: <9801118872.AA887217062@in2.mcmail.vanderbilt.edu> To: Shmuk , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re[2]: [freestyle] Nagano Freestyle Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Howdy All! I think that because there are so many variations of footsports around the world, perhaps that has slowed the advent of footbag as a "popular" sport. It has become more mainstream in the US over the past 10 years -- I often see examples of footbag in TV commercials, print ads, postcards, music videos, TV shows and movies (most recently in a background scene in The Postman w/Kevin Costner). But the powers that be who decide what is marketable and has the potential to make big bucks haven't realized what a find footbag could be. With roots in Asia, Latin America, India, etc., etc., it crosses all cultural boundaries, as well as gender. Because footbags are small and easily portable it's a convenient sport. There's a low start-up cost, with a potential long-term developable market. It's addictive. Once you're hooked, it's a long-run thing in most cases (i.e. Ida and Derrick Fogle, Valeria and Scott Davidson, and my personal favorite -- Steve Goldberg). But I do agree with Steve that uniformity needs to be established internationally. I always consider myself an ambassador to the sport -- I have kicked in a circle uniting Vietnamese and Cambodians, in England with soccer buffs, in Paris, Mexico, Canada and all over the US, but it was seldom in connection with an organized group (other than at tourneys) -- I just join the circle where ever I see one. I have kicked in heels and a skirt, in Reeboks, Birkenstocks, and bare-footed. Most importantly, I just keep kicking and I am NEVER afraid to start a circle by myself. While vacationing in FLA recently, I had a man stop his car and watch me "freestyle" (in as much as a Memphis Footworks net monster can do so) then ask if it had become an Olympic sport yet. I said no, but we're working on it! Followed by the requisite -- come join in, it's not as much fun by myself. This is necessary until we have "federations" around the world. Always mention the WFA and web sites, etc. so even if you never see the person again they'll have a point of reference. I love to do things in the community to bring recognition to the sport -- exhibitions at soccer matches, festivals, telethons, etc. etc. I am a firm beliver in Noblesse Oblige -- from whom much is given, much is expected. I've gotten a lot out of the sport over the years including my current best friends. Some of the coolest and most influential people in my world I met through footbag. Upon moving away from my "network" of net players (terrible pun, I know) I now appreciate the soul satisfaction I get just from drilling on my own. My point is, we're all trying for the same thing here -- promote a sport we love and that gives us satisfaction. I salute Steve's efforts, but also the contribution of anyone who starts a circle or promotes the sport through tournaments, web sites, or whatever. Keep up the good work -- Footbag is worth believing in. (I do think BOTH Freestyle and Net could be Olympic sports, BTW) Leilani Rector From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 11 17:03:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00859 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:02:04 GMT Received: from hill9361@uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8024) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA08022 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:28:24 GMT Received: from raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (raven.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.192.43]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22944 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:28:31 -0800 Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id BAA24196 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:28:30 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.csrv.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:28:30 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand X-Sender: hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Olympics? In-Reply-To: <34E0CEF0.924@sun1.wetmore.amphi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org marc zelov wrote: > Matt Hillebrand wrote: > > > I bet Peter Irish would rather have a few thousand dollars than a little > > gold plated metal. I know I would. > > > I/m sorry, but let me be the first to say that this is an extremely > whimpy response. At least it got some controversy going. Obviously I don't think that highly of the olympics. Anyway, here I go again: Freestyle is never going to become a giant international sport (feel free to call wimpy, or even whimpy); I think it will grow as a really damn cool way to get some exercise and have fun. Like Steve Goldberg said, this year's Worlds turnout was disappointing. > I think that the important thing here is the fact that footbag deserves > recognition as an extremely competitive international sport. Wether > recognition via ESPN'S X-Games or the olympics, the time is due. Think > about the exposure and expanse the sport will undergo, the potential is > awesome. I think shredding deserves and will get recognition....but I don't know about competing with choreographed routines. I just don't see that spreading like wild fire across the world anytime soon. Sincerely, the immature, money-hungry, anti-phish, pessimistic, __________________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 11 18:07:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01377 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:07:25 GMT Received: from sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1041) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01039 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:20:27 GMT Received: from dept.english.upenn.edu (DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU [130.91.75.246]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28602 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:20:27 -0800 Received: (from sunilj@localhost) by dept.english.upenn.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) id MAA37438; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:20:56 -0500 From: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani) Message-Id: <199802111720.MAA37438@dept.english.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Indian roots?? To: bmedprog@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu (Leilani Rector) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:20:56 -0500 (EST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <9801118872.AA887217062@in2.mcmail.vanderbilt.edu> from "Leilani Rector" at Feb 11, 98 09:09:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org According to Leilani Rector: > > But the powers that be who decide what is marketable and has the potential > to make big bucks haven't realized what a find footbag could be. > With roots in Asia, Latin America, India, etc., etc., it crosses all cultural > boundaries, as well as gender. Because footbags are small and easily portable Could someone share the story about footbag's Indian roots? I guess I could just ask my grandma (ba). Is footbag in the Kama Sutra or something? It might not be such a good idea to ask my ba about it then. Just curious about my cultural FREESTYLE heritage. Thanks. Sunil From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 11 18:10:41 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01427 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:10:40 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1394) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01392 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:09:39 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29558 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:09:40 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01389; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:09:34 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199802111720.MAA37438@dept.english.upenn.edu> References: <9801118872.AA887217062@in2.mcmail.vanderbilt.edu> from "Leilani Rector" at Feb 11, 98 09:09:21 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:10:57 -0800 To: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani) From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Indian roots?? Cc: bmedprog@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu (Leilani Rector), freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:20 AM -0800 2/11/98, Sunil Jani wrote: >Could someone share the story about footbag's Indian roots? Indian with a feather, not a dot. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 11 20:49:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02494 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:49:22 GMT Received: from kaplanb@mscd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2438) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02436 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:44:26 GMT Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00397 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:44:28 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-9 #24550) with SMTP id <0EO800201EUE5H@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:42:14 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:42:14 -0700 (MST) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Olympics? In-reply-to: To: Matt Hillebrand Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Reply-to: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Matt Hillebrand wrote: > Freestyle is never going to become a giant international sport (feel > free to call wimpy, or even whimpy) Neither was snowboarding. My brother was the first person in our town to have a snowboard twelve years ago and everyone thought it looked cool but it was too hard. Hmmm, sounds like freestyle! Like someone else already wrote, invitations to join in and positive encouragement go a long way. Yesterday it was less than fifty degrees out here and I started playing on my campus all by my lonesome and ended up with a six person circle males and females who all want to play more and go buy there own footbags. > Like Steve Goldberg > said, this year's Worlds turnout was disappointing. That's where money comes in. It may be a problem but it can be overcome. Once again snowboarding ain't cheap but it gets ahead. Carpools and shared rooms help. So does the possibility of sponsorships down the road. Skateboarding, rollerblading, and mountain biking all have sponsors because they worked for it. Thanks to Steve and others footbag is in motion. > I think shredding deserves and will get recognition....but I don't know > about competing with choreographed routines. I just don't see that > spreading like wild fire across the world anytime soon. So do you think we should throw up the bag and kick eachother to get at it and score as many adds as possible before the other person kicks you back. An Olympic sport called Hack-Fu! Now that's marketable. Choreographing to music takes immense skill, whether it's a dance, a Broadway show, or a freestyle routine. That skill is something that is appreciated and envied by thousands of people. I know I haven't been able to come up with a routine yet. All will come to footbag in good time. If you have another suggestion then I'm sure it would be appreciated as well. > Sincerely, the immature, money-hungry, anti-phish, pessimistic, > A) Sincerity and immaturity are about to put us at war with Iraq. B) If we wern't so culturally money-hungry we could all make it to worlds. C) Phish heads always get where they're going, i.e. worlds. D) While pessimists are often pleasantly surprised, it's the optomists who get things done, i.e. putting worlds together for the rest of us and hopefully the Olympics one day. Just giving more contraversy, Brad From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 11 21:44:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02857 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:44:16 GMT Received: from j1876@tir.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2696) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02694 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:24:58 GMT Received: from sun.tir.com (sun.tir.com [205.138.41.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01250 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:24:55 -0800 Received: from jaymolde (an90.tir.com [205.138.41.190]) by sun.tir.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA21100 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:24:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802112124.QAA21100@sun.tir.com> Reply-To: From: Jay Moldenhauer To: Subject: [freestyle] Re: (freestyle) Olympics? Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:27:56 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I think shredding deserves and will get recognition....but I don't know > about competing with choreographed routines. I just don't see that > spreading like wild fire across the world anytime soon. I think that part of the deal exists in the fact, that when all other freestyle events are happening, in figure skating for instance, you will see a few really big tricks and mostly filler, whereas in footbag, you would see way too many big tricks for most peoples eyes (not including their brains) to handle. If you think about it, it is this way in all freestyle disciplines that currently exist in Olympic format. And I am sure someone will correct me if am wrong. Maybe, there is another argument in here for the old time freestylers. Don't get me wrong, I think the shredding is way cool (just wish I could do it), but, when you want the crowds to get into it, you have to feed them a little at a time if you want them to come back for more. Gone but not forgetting, Jayman Oh yes, Steve keep up the great work!!!!!! :<) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 11 21:44:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02871 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:44:19 GMT Received: from hill9361@uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2754) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02752 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:30:57 GMT Received: from raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (raven.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.192.43]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01380 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:30:59 -0800 Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA00645; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:30:55 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.csrv.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:30:54 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand X-Sender: hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu To: KAPLAN BRADLEY M cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Olympics? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > I think shredding deserves and will get recognition....but I don't know > > about competing with choreographed routines. I just don't see that > > spreading like wild fire across the world anytime soon. > > So do you think we should throw up the bag and kick eachother to get > at it and score as many adds as possible before the other person kicks you > back. An Olympic sport called Hack-Fu! Now that's marketable. No, that's *not* what I think. I think freestyle won't make it to the olympics. Net, perhaps. __________________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 11 23:43:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA03413 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:43:18 GMT Received: from zogg13@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3170) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03168 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:49:22 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f78.hotmail.com [207.82.250.184]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA02979 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:49:25 -0800 Received: (qmail 27770 invoked by uid 0); 11 Feb 1998 22:49:23 -0000 Message-ID: <19980211224923.27769.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.120.86.87 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:49:22 PST X-Originating-IP: [204.120.86.87] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shoe color Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:49:22 EST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > >I just orderd a new pair of laver's from the online Footmart catalog, and I >was wondering what the coloring sceme is? ...and I'd like to put my good >word in for the people at the WFA, when ever I do buisness with them I >always get the nicest personal service I've had on the web. ;) > >Ps: I was wondering what kind of music intrest's everyone out there has. > > Lates > Brandon Parker > Colors hmmmmmm........ Mostly white, but the soles can be different. I've heard of green and navy blue but I can't think of any others. As for music well......... I listen to almost everything(except for country): Alturnative, old school rap, jazz, some blues, techno, rock, but I'd have to say my fav. is funk. Speaking of this, any one know of some good funk bands(besides the P-funk, G.C.S., Sly and the family Stone) or some good blues artists? well thats it. _-Steve-_ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 12 01:11:47 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04227 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:11:10 GMT Received: from 00201887@bigred.unl.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3876) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA03874 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:31:57 GMT Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05213 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:32:00 -0800 Received: (from 00201887@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26994; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:30:38 -0600 (CST) From: Theron A Troxel <00201887@bigred.unl.edu> Message-Id: <199802120030.SAA26994@bigred.unl.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shoe color To: zogg13@hotmail.com (Steve Miskiewicz) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:30:37 -0600 (CST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <19980211224923.27769.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Steve Miskiewicz" at Feb 11, 98 05:49:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Greetings, >Ps: I was wondering what kind of music intrest's everyone out there has. The soundtrack to Shredded Week!!!! Just joking Sean =). I would have to say chemical brothers, Prodigy, or any techno band! Later. Oh, by the way, I put up two ZITS comics on the unlfc homepage. They both deal with footbag, http://www.unl.edu/crec/SC/Footbag/photos.html -- --------------------------- @ Theron Troxel \_|_/ UNLFC President | o 00201887@bigred.unl.edu /_\_ http://www.unl.edu/crec/SC/Footbag \ ------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 12 01:11:48 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04240 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:11:14 GMT Received: from tuhuge@sfsu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3940) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA03938 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:41:49 GMT Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05451 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:41:52 -0800 Received: from tuhuge.sfsu.edu (madmax-148.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.148]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA03661 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:41:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980211044029.00698070@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 04:40:29 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: 2 x 4 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Olympics? In-Reply-To: References: <34E0CEF0.924@sun1.wetmore.amphi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 01:28 AM 2/11/98 -0800, you wrote: >> Matt Hillebrand wrote: >Freestyle is never going to become a giant international sport (feel >free to call wimpy, or even whimpy) You're right!!! I think footbag golf is the answer. > Like Steve Goldberg >said, this year's Worlds turnout was disappointing. That's because there were not enough stands for everybody. There were people sitting on the floor! You put up the stands they used for net and they would have been filled. >I think shredding deserves and will get recognition....but I don't know >about competing with choreographed routines. I just don't see that >spreading like wild fire across the world anytime soon. Why not competition? I think an intense Eric wulff routine might get people pumped. It knocks my socks off. 2 huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 12 16:18:43 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00605 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:17:24 GMT Received: from footbag13@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (493) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00491 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:06:59 GMT From: Footbag13@aol.com Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA17889 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:06:58 -0800 Received: from Footbag13@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OIXOa05790 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:06:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <89764644.34e31e1a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:06:48 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Indian roots?? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 98-02-11 13:08:46 EST, you write: << Could someone share the story about footbag's Indian roots? >> I'm sure that footbag-like sports can be found in the history of many cultures but the one that I am most familiar with is that of Native Americans. I wrote a short paper on Native American sports a couple years ago and these are the details as best i can remember... The sport was called hand-to-foot ball and was generally played by women and children. Two people faced each other and used a softball sized leather ball stuffed with rags. The first person tosses the ball into the air. The second person slaps the ball down at the opponents feet (slapping it to the ground without hitting the feet of the opponent would result in a loss). A successful turn in result in kicking the bag up (using only the feet and head) high enough to slap it in return at your opponents feet. I would love to hear more accounts of the history (pre 1970's) of freestyle if anyone knows of any.... Jason Phillips Ground Phlor Digs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 12 21:25:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02963 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:25:02 GMT Received: from zogg13@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2853) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02851 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:16:09 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f14.hotmail.com [207.82.250.25]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA24905 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:16:10 -0800 Received: (qmail 21872 invoked by uid 0); 12 Feb 1998 21:16:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19980212211608.21871.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.120.81.50 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:16:06 PST X-Originating-IP: [204.120.81.50] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] The Shoe Of Tomorrow????????? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:16:06 EST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just got my Rod Lavers(green) in the mail........ And there something weird about them. The Faq on footbag.org says to remove the inside chusioning and hard plastic from the inside foot.......... but there isn't anything there!! Only the thin canvas. Then I checked the toe.... nothing there too!!!! I don't know why but my shoe looks like it was already modified(except for the front toe stichting). Is anyone elses shoe like this? Or is this the a new breed of Rod Lavers? _-Steve-_ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 12 21:25:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02948 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:24:59 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2340) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02338 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:02:21 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f137.hotmail.com [207.82.251.16]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA23346 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:02:22 -0800 Received: (qmail 17366 invoked by uid 0); 12 Feb 1998 20:02:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19980212200220.17365.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.156 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:02:19 PST X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.156] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Olympics? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:02:19 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Greetings and Salutations: > Freestyle is never going to become a giant international sport (feel > free to call wimpy, or even whimpy) If you and I like the sport, why not others from around the world. What about little Pedro in Santiago? Or Eun-Sun in Seoul? And don't forget Phil McCrack in Dublin. >Like Steve Goldberg said, this year's Worlds turnout was >disappointing. I think we'd all agree that students (high school and college) make up a lion's share of the footbag demographic. So why have Worlds in the middle of the summer when schools are closed? What do you think of Worlds in September? >I think shredding deserves and will get recognition....but I don't >know about competing with choreographed routines. I just don't see >that spreading like wild fire across the world anytime soon. Agreed. As Steve wrote before, the quality of competition needs to be raised before anything like an Olympic event can be realized. Like many of you, I've noticed the parallels between footbag and figure skating. In skating, one fall and you basically have no chance of winning. We need to get to the point in footbag where one drop means the same. Dan Kramer P.S. I was watching the games the other night, and heard a figure skating commentator call their judging system "convoluted." How would he describe our judging system? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 12 22:01:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03337 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:01:29 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3297) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA03295 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:59:55 GMT From: Nageylum@aol.com Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.177]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26041 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:59:57 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id PMFOa26115; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:58:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:58:56 EST To: grandincredible@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Olympics? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 98-02-12 16:26:16 EST, grandincredible@hotmail.com writes: << I think we'd all agree that students (high school and college) make up a lion's share of the footbag demographic. So why have Worlds in the middle of the summer when schools are closed? What do you think of Worlds in September? >> As a student of the high school type, i would find worlds in September some what hard to make to. With worlds being a week long it would mean that student(or at least high school students) would have to missing about a week of school, and i know for me it's a pain in the ass to make up work when i've been gone a few days. So i guess i'm trying to say that the summer is much better. and as far as the one drop destroying a rutine, i think it's a good idea, but seem rather un-likely to happen anytime soon, but this is coming from a kid who doesn't compete as of yet. Shredding with a "phyco bitch" style, Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 13 03:49:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA05568 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 03:49:41 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4896) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA04894 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 02:06:44 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f147.hotmail.com [207.82.251.26]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA31049 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:06:43 -0800 Received: (qmail 11603 invoked by uid 0); 13 Feb 1998 02:06:33 -0000 Message-ID: <19980213020633.11602.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.109.225.232 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:06:32 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.109.225.232] From: "A Chubby Josh Penney" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Something to do tomorrow (was: shoes of?) Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:06:32 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >The Faq on footbag.org says to remove the inside >chusioning and hard plastic from the inside foot.......... What you have read referrs to the insole and arch support, because it takes awhile to scrape it all out. >Only the thin canvas. I don't know why but my shoe looks like it was >already modified If the canvas is still inside, it hasn't. Canvas inside, nylon mesh outside. Canvas inside, nylon mesh outside. Get it? *Remove the canvas*. JP FBI ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 13 03:56:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA05651 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 03:56:38 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5612) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA05610 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 03:55:11 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00027 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:55:16 -0800 Received: from [207.66.252.231] (max136.atext.com [204.62.245.136]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA05607; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 03:55:05 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980212200220.17365.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:56:36 -0800 To: "Daniel Kramer" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Olympics? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:02 PM -0800 2/12/98, Daniel Kramer wrote: >>Like Steve Goldberg said, this year's Worlds turnout was >>disappointing. > >I think we'd all agree that students (high school and college) make up a >lion's share of the footbag demographic. So why have Worlds in the >middle of the summer when schools are closed? What do you think of >Worlds in September? Two points: (1) I wasn't referring to turn-out in general, but to the representation from foreign countries; and (2) high school and college students are much *less* likely to make the trip to Worlds if they are in school. That's why we've tried very hard to schedule Worlds during the summer months. >P.S. I was watching the games the other night, and heard a figure >skating commentator call their judging system "convoluted." How would he >describe our judging system? "Constipated." Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 13 04:12:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA05763 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 04:11:59 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5706) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA05704 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 04:05:30 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.126]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00252 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:05:35 -0800 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA235002733; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:05:33 -0600 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:05:33 -0600 (CST) From: Sean Wingert To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Shredded Wheat Music Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Theron Troxel Wrote: >>Ps: I was wondering what kind of music intrest's everyone out there has. > The soundtrack to Shredded Wheat!!!! Oh, come on, what are you talking about, I jam to the funky sounds of the mock-Nabisco product in the shower, during exams, at Christian ska-concerts (j/k Josh), and, of course, while I'm in bed dreaming about hitting Nemesis to inspinning Mobius.... ;-) Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 13 04:37:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA05928 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 04:37:44 GMT Received: from dezoderant@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5897) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA05895 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 04:36:45 GMT From: DeZoderant@aol.com Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.172]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00721 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:36:50 -0800 Received: from DeZoderant@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OSRBa19060 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:36:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1ec3c310.34e3cdc3@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:36:16 EST To: Freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] U of U Mayfest Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey i was wondering if there is going to be anyone going to Mayfest at the University of Utah in salt lake city on May 9-11th? There is usually a group of footbaggers and im wondering if anyone from this list has ever been to this festival or if anyone lives near and wants to meet up with me to kick. Thanks. Joey From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 13 20:55:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02321 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:53:01 GMT Received: from zogg13@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (820) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00818 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:50:50 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f74.hotmail.com [207.82.250.180]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA10071 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:50:50 -0800 Received: (qmail 9897 invoked by uid 0); 13 Feb 1998 16:50:49 -0000 Message-ID: <19980213165049.9896.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.120.81.4 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:50:48 PST X-Originating-IP: [204.120.81.4] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] NO Shoe Of Tomorrow Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:50:48 EST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Sorry, I found it. man was that a pain in the @$$ to get out. I know what i'm doing this week end. Cut and test cut and test. _-Steve-_ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Feb 14 21:43:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA01140 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 21:42:05 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (949) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA00947 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 21:00:42 GMT From: Nageylum@aol.com Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.167]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA32656 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:00:40 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id ONVWa02262 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:00:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <76a89abc.34e605e9@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:00:23 EST To: Freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] in-spin Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org sup kickers, I'm still very confused about the word in-spin, i'm not sure if this is a move, a direction, any help would me be great. Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Feb 14 22:22:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA01271 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 22:22:29 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1230) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA01228 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 22:10:54 GMT From: StinKyKiwi@aol.com Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.169]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00872 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:10:56 -0800 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OEIEa05145 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:10:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:10:52 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] freestyle talk Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I learned the basics of freestlye talk...but on the tutorial, it did not say what xcb and BOD meant....can anyone help me out? I want to learn all the terms not mentioned in the tutorial. Thanks, Matt Avery From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Feb 14 22:29:56 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA01355 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 22:29:55 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1292) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA01290 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 22:28:55 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01103 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:28:58 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA01287; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 22:28:52 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:30:27 -0800 To: StinKyKiwi@aol.com From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] freestyle talk Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:10 PM -0800 2/14/98, StinKyKiwi@aol.com wrote: > I learned the basics of freestlye talk...but on the tutorial, it did not >say what xcb and BOD meant....can anyone help me out? I want to learn all the >terms not mentioned in the tutorial. "xbd" is shorthand for "cross body" and "bod" is shorthand for "body". These are two of the five "add categories" that are fundamental to freestyle judging (as it's currently defined). The official rules of freestyle judging are available online at http://ifab.footbag.org/article-5.html (check out section 505.01-C). It gives a description of the add categories in a couple of places. Also, a good reference is the on-line move database built by the AFFC in New Zealand, which at the very beginning gives a complete description of all the add categories. It's available by looking in the standard place, http://www.footbag.org/faq/ but the direct link is: http://www.callplus.co.nz/footbag/ Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 15 08:09:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA03036 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:08:09 GMT Received: from dezoderant@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2992) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA02990 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:04:17 GMT From: DeZoderant@aol.com Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.165]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA14377 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:04:24 -0800 Received: from DeZoderant@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OLEFa10696 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 03:04:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <96af4ae8.34e6a177@aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 03:04:04 EST To: Freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Flying clipper Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Why doesnt flying clipper make their facile juices with a color scheme instead of just white and another color. Whats the prob with having an ALL COLOR 32 panel? I'm Just curious... and a little bugged. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 15 08:17:12 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA03099 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:17:10 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3064) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA03062 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:15:49 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA14494 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:15:57 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA03059; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:15:36 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <96af4ae8.34e6a177@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:18:36 -0800 To: DeZoderant@aol.com From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Flying clipper Cc: Freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:04 AM -0800 2/15/98, DeZoderant@aol.com wrote: >Why doesnt flying clipper make their facile juices with a color scheme instead >of just white and another color. Whats the prob with having an ALL COLOR 32 >panel? I'm Just curious... and a little bugged. Flying Clipper's more expensive Oregon-made products come in all sorts of colors (including some really wild stuff). The problem is the mass-produced ones which are cheaper and available in catalogs, because it is just too had to deal with all the combinations of colors. It's important to understand that there are two products available with the Flying Clipper label: (1) Made in Eugene -- from "facile", all varieties of styles and colors, but more expensive; (2) Made in factories -- from a different, more durable synthetic suede, only available in a few colors, but much cheaper and easier to get. Hope that answers your question. As for ordering a type (1) bag above, you can get some through the WFA as long as you specify "facile" and give them an idea of the colors you want, or from Flying Clipper, or other random retailers that carry Flying Clipper hand-made-in-Oregon products. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 16 03:03:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA02344 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 03:03:18 GMT Received: from allman144@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1591) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.167]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA01589 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 00:01:09 GMT From: Allman144@aol.com Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id BSXKa05314 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 18:59:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <52f82b64.34e781bb@aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 18:59:47 EST To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] My facile juice Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 61 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello everyone. Just recently, Santa Claus brought me a new facile juice. so now that is Feb 15, I would expect that it would be broken in, but it is not! What gives? I have washed it twice. Any tips or suggestions? I would appreciate it! Tony Glick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 16 04:29:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA02668 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 04:29:12 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2617) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA02615 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 04:03:36 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f139.hotmail.com [207.82.251.18]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00120 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:03:41 -0800 Received: (qmail 1004 invoked by uid 0); 16 Feb 1998 04:03:40 -0000 Message-ID: <19980216040340.1003.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.109.227.74 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:03:40 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.109.227.74] From: "A Chubby Josh Penney" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Your facile juice, my eye! Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:03:40 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Any tips or suggestions? I would appreciate it! (sigh!) The boy has no patience... It's not going to break in unless you play with it, so kick the thing. A lot. Knead it gently with your hands. Tell it how much you want it to help you hit mobius to blurry whirl. Keep it with you at all times. Sing to it softly in Italian, and keep it under your pillow. Make it sit on your desk when you're working so you can always look at it. Realistically, here's the way it works: Washing it *thins* the material. Kneading it *stretches* the material. JP FBI From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 16 05:50:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA02938 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 05:50:16 GMT Received: from jsbx@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2849) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA02847 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 05:22:52 GMT From: JSBX@aol.com Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.177]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01206 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:22:57 -0800 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OLRJa26115 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 00:22:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7b434652.34e7cd28@aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 00:22:46 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] breaking em in Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi folks. Way i break in my bags are by carrying em with me at all times, and kneading them constantly. Especially good time to break in a bag is during finals week, or during midterms. kneading a bag is a big stress reliever, and often people ask me if they can knead my bag for good luck or stress relief. On a completely different note, i want to express my concern over my priorities. I went to a concert last friday night with some friends, and a girl i am interested in was flirting a lot with me, and i let her play with my hack for a while. I can't find my hack, and she is in canada for a week. I honestly believe this is her ploy to get me to call her, and on one hand i feel i should be flattered, but i find myself more annoyed by the fact that i don't have my trusty alpha. This seems wrong to me. Are my priorities messed up? KeN From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 16 19:04:48 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01550 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:02:14 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1460) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01458 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:43:33 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f50.hotmail.com [207.82.250.61]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA14814 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:43:35 -0800 Received: (qmail 12994 invoked by uid 0); 16 Feb 1998 18:43:33 -0000 Message-ID: <19980216184333.12993.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.37 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:43:32 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.37] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] breaking em in Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:43:32 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org " I can't find my hack, and she is in canada for a week. I >honestly believe this is her ploy to get me to call her, and on one hand i >feel i should be flattered, but i find myself more annoyed by the fact that i >don't have my trusty alpha. This seems wrong to me. Are my priorities messed >up? >KeN" Just remember Ken, footbag is your life everything elce is secondary, for example think of finals not in terms of school but a good chance to work in a bag or a job as a means of financing a trip to a tournament. Similarly all of your freinds must play and your waking hours must be spent in practice or quiet contimplation of good form. As for the girl I beileve she is probably part of the Canadian footbag conspericy these people must be stoped! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 16 23:44:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA03106 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:44:08 GMT Received: from kaplanb@mscd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2993) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA02991 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:31:11 GMT Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21851 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:31:14 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-9 #24550) with SMTP id <0EOH00001VWJKI@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 16:29:07 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 16:29:07 -0700 (MST) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] priorities In-reply-to: <7b434652.34e7cd28@aol.com> To: JSBX@aol.com Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 JSBX@aol.com wrote: > On a completely different note, i want to express my concern over my > priorities. I went to a concert last friday night with some friends, and a > girl i am interested in was flirting a lot with me, and i let her play with my > hack for a while. I can't find my hack, and she is in canada for a week. I > honestly believe this is her ploy to get me to call her, and on one hand i > feel i should be flattered, but i find myself more annoyed by the fact that i > don't have my trusty alpha. This seems wrong to me. Are my priorities messed > up? > KeN > Boy can I relate to this. I think the constant need to shred is what Buddha meant when he said "Life is Suffering". As I see it right now (underdstand this could change tomorrow) there are three ways of approaching this situation. 1) Call her up and don't ask for your footbag immediately because if she doesn't have it and she thinks you only called to get it back then you may not get a date. And you want that date especially if you've found a girl who is interested in kicking. Similar interested provide for a more communicative relationship. 2) Recently I was down right honest with a girl I started dating and told her that hack was dead even in the order of priorities and if we are walking down the street and there is a circle then I'd have to give her a kiss and go play. Guess what! On Valentines Day she took me out to the park so I could find some people to play with. So honesty works in some cases. 3) Call her up and explain what happened that night when you lost your bag and how devastated you were that it was your only one and you couldn't play all week and now you can't ask her out because your legs are starting to atrophy due to lack of play. In any event you need to get in touch with her and help guide her on the path to righteous kicking. Teach her everything you know about the sport. Pass on the vast amounts of knowledge you possess. And hey, if things don't work out between the two of you then at least we have gained another player. And you think your priorities are screwed up! Brad From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 16 23:45:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA03150 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:45:30 GMT Received: from jsbx@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3077) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03075 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:44:03 GMT From: JSBX@aol.com Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.167]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22143 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:44:03 -0800 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OAKJa03056 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:42:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2e9b3c97.34e8cef7@aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:42:44 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] taboo Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone. Why does so much taboo surround the word hacky sack? I fail to understand why when I refer to my alpha as "my hack" instead of "my bag" people freak out on me. When somebody asks me for some kleenex I don't give them an evil look, watching the snot flow down their face as I wait for them to ask for a "tissue." I understand that bags that are actual mattel "hacky sacks" are inferior in quality to carol bags or storks. I just don't love the way "footbag" sounds, and most people who aren't well aquainted with the sport think I am being pretentious for calling it so, or just don't get what I am talking about. I only say the word "hack" in reference to my bag when in the presence of the uninitiated. I usually just call it my alpha/juice/bled (long story) or whatever other brand it is. I also prefer the verb "kick" to "footbag", and I favor "to hack" or "to shred" over "to footbag." My own kicking style isn't an intense flow of moves, it is bursts of stringing moves together interspersed with leisurely kicks. This is more like "hacking" than "shredding," both involve incisivness, but there is a difference in the rate at which said activity is carried out. In short, when I use hack as a verb, it has no connection to the mattel brand footbag, and when i refer to a bag as a hack, it's my prerogative, and i don't see any real logic why anyone should get prickly with me over it. KeN, USM From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 17 00:20:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA03527 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:20:32 GMT Received: from kaplanb@mscd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3327) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03325 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:55:33 GMT Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22428 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:55:37 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-9 #24550) with SMTP id <0EOH00201WSP5E@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 16:48:25 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 16:48:25 -0700 (MST) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Olympics? In-reply-to: To: Matt Hillebrand Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > So do you think we should throw up the bag and kick eachother to get > > at it and score as many adds as possible before the other person kicks you > > back. An Olympic sport called Hack-Fu! Now that's marketable. > > No, that's *not* what I think. I think freestyle won't make it to the > olympics. Net, perhaps. I know that's not quite what you had in mind, but I'm a little annoyed that most sports that we love and cherish are when two sides are pitted against eachother to leave only one "man" standing. When you look at alot of the Summer Olympic sports you see things like wrestling, boxing, karate, tennis, baseball, basketball and a few other I can't think of. These are all great sports and require a lot of talent. Then you have four women in tights on a mat with bouncy balls doing sychronized gymastics. Personally I'd rather watch someone drop a bag on the ground twenty times before land a certain trick than see if those gymnists can through balls at eachother and catch them while rolling around. Maybe you're right and net will make it first. I think that someday we'll get our shot. The more people play the more other people play and the more varied and fascinating the game becomes. We shall overcome! Brad. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 17 16:29:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00865 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:27:06 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7192) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA07190 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:18:14 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f47.hotmail.com [207.82.250.58]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA02449 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 06:18:23 -0800 Received: (qmail 8270 invoked by uid 0); 17 Feb 1998 14:18:22 -0000 Message-ID: <19980217141822.8269.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 146.95.3.52 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 06:18:22 PST X-Originating-IP: [146.95.3.52] From: "A Chubby Josh Penney" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] taboo Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 06:18:22 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: JSBX@aol.com >Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:42:44 EST >To: freestyle@footbag.org >Subject: [freestyle] taboo Hey Ken. You can't use the word 'footbag' as a verb, because it is a noun. would I say, 'let's go car?' Or possibly 'I need to swimming pool.' Your confusion is mainly stemming from improper grammar. Instead *play* footbag, Kick *a* footbag, meet people who are interested *in* footbag, etc. Once you start *freestyling* (which incidentally is another core of taboo - do you freestyle walk, swim, skate [inline, ice, or board],bike, sing or spin?) the matter will drop not unlike a footbag does when we don't kick it, but merely talk about it. JP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 17 16:53:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA01105 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:53:06 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1061) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA01059 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:49:36 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f26.hotmail.com [207.82.250.37]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA05281 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:49:37 -0800 Received: (qmail 1326 invoked by uid 0); 17 Feb 1998 16:49:28 -0000 Message-ID: <19980217164928.1325.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.53 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:49:27 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.53] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] taboo Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:49:27 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Hey everyone. >Why does so much taboo surround the word hacky sack? I fail to understand why >when I refer to my alpha as "my hack" instead of "my bag" people freak out on >me. When somebody asks me for some kleenex I don't give them an evil look, >watching the snot flow down their face as I wait for them to ask for a >"tissue." Ken, I am easily the most annal person on this particular point so I thought I'd field it. 1. First as you pointed out Hacky Sack (shudder) is a brand name and many of us don't like that. You don't hear golfers say lets go play some ping, or basketball players say let's go shoot some spalding. The point being we would like to be known as a sport and not just a company. 2. And feel free to call me an ass hole on this point but I don't like what people think of when they hear hacky Sack (shudder again). Most people in my experience tend to think of a bunch of stoned kids flayling their legs around an dkicking each other as much as the bag (BTW pretty much how I started out). When ever I talk about tournaments to my non playing friends they usually say something like "I can't beileve that people get payed for playing Hacky Sack." WHen most poeple hear that name they just don't usually think of it as a sport. 3. Lastly and this may just be part of living in the north west but when ever the word "hack" is used half the people will think of computers. And as a finnal note I do call them Tissues. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 17 17:21:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01365 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:21:34 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1288) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01286 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:12:23 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA05861 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:12:20 -0800 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.03.0014/4c.adoc) with ESMTP id aa163748 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:21:10 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] taboo Message-Id: <000000073932970580733@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:18:53 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Feb 17, 1998, 8:18:22 AM US CST A Chubby Josh Penney wrote: >You can't use the word 'footbag' as a verb, because it is a noun. "Baseball" is only a noun, referring to both the physical object and the activity played with the object. That activity has been deemed a concept, which in the english language falls under the category of 'thing'. Then again, it could be both a noun that identifies an object, and a verb that identifies an activity. To use one worn-out comparison, "skate" is both a noun and a verb. Can you use "to footbag" without feeling silly? (I want to footbag) Or do you say "I want to play footbag"? What is the difference between "ice skating" and "freestyle footbaging"? I'm trying to think of an invented activity since bicycling that our guardians of language have allowed to be both a noun and a verb. I can see alot of parallels to footbaging and bicycling from an equipment perspective. Footbag is larger than a single game played with it (as opposed to chess or baseball). So there is some merit in considering footbag as a verb as well as a noun * but*... I can't imagine that ever happening. Even getting 'footbag' in the dictionary as a demonstration word will be difficult enough. -- Derrick Fogle -- Heartland Eye Banks -- dfogle@mlerf.org -- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 17 17:25:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01450 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:25:51 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1418) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01416 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:25:11 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA06106 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:25:12 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01413; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:25:08 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000000073932970580733@mlerf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:27:42 -0800 To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] taboo Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:18 AM -0800 2/17/98, Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: >What is the difference between "ice skating" and "freestyle footbaging"? > >I'm trying to think of an invented activity since bicycling that our guardians >of language have allowed to be both a noun and a verb. Of course, we should be happy that footbag ends in a consonant, so we can double it and get nice words like "footbagging". Imagine what those poor frisbeeers have to go through frisbeeing all the damn time. It's not just hard to spell, it's hard to say. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 17 19:59:57 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02430 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:59:55 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1953) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01951 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:46:33 GMT Received: from f140.hotmail.com (f140.hotmail.com [207.82.251.19]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08080 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:46:34 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by f140.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA08577 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:46:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802171846.KAA08577@f140.hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.156 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:46:32 PST X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.156] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Unique Move Counters Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:46:32 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org To All Interested in Judging Matters: I've been trying to think of a way to modify the component cards to accomplish these goals: 1. reduce the number of judges 2. keep the scoring based on observable phenomena (there's enough subjectivity in scoring presentation) 3. achieve the above without making it too difficult on the judges What do you think about unique move counters? Before presenting this as part of a judging system, I would like to know whether or not counting unique moves can be done accurately. How would it compare, in accuracy, to the present component card system or add counting? What's your opinion? We'd like to know. Dan Kramer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 17 20:00:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA02418 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:59:53 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1917) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01915 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:37:20 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f102.hotmail.com [207.82.250.221]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA07861 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:37:21 -0800 Received: (qmail 20195 invoked by uid 0); 17 Feb 1998 18:37:19 -0000 Message-ID: <19980217183719.20194.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.53 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:37:19 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.53] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] the wonder of the English language. Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:37:19 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Of course, we should be happy that footbag ends in a consonant, so we can >double it and get nice words like "footbagging". Imagine what those poor >frisbeeers have to go through frisbeeing all the damn time. It's not just >hard to spell, it's hard to say. :-) > > Steve > Maybe they say "flying disking" ;-) And for anyone out there who is confused on this point English is great for making words do what they weren't intended for. You can make a noun into a verb, adverb, adjective, subordinating conjunction, basically anything you want to, it is not written in stone anywhere. For example "The footbaging players footbaged a footbag, footbagingly kicking to the footbaging." adjective, verb, noun, adverb, adjectival noun. The only problem being that when footbag becomes a verb it refers to all of the attributes of the noun so we have to specify if we mean to footbag over a net or freestyle footbag or golf. So I normally just say kick. Andrew, ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 17 21:37:57 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03162 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 21:37:34 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2577) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02575 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:10:33 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA10097 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:10:34 -0800 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.03.0014/4c.adoc) with ESMTP id ja163861 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:19:32 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unique Move Counters Message-Id: <000000074722970591427@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:17:07 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Feb 17, 1998, 12:46:32 PM US CST Daniel Kramer wrote: >What do you think about unique move counters? Before presenting this as >part of a judging system, I would like to know whether or not counting This is something that Andrew McCargar already suggested. Consider playing at the 3-add/contact level. Any judge will have to keep track of 3/5 of all moves anyway. Realistically, the delay, dex, and xb judges have to keep track of it all anyway. I would be in favor of using unique move judges just like we use add counters now (generally an average of 2 judges). I think if anything it would be more accurate, not less. And would require 3 less judges. -- Derrick Fogle -- Heartland Eye Banks -- dfogle@mlerf.org -- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 17 22:16:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03650 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:15:59 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3606) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03604 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:14:39 GMT Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA12964 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:14:41 -0800 Received: from [207.208.136.227] (d206.focal.interaccess.com [207.208.136.206]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id QAA12033; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:14:18 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:14:18 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Daniel Kramer" , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unique Move Counters Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Dan and freestylers! >What do you think about unique move counters? Before presenting this as >part of a judging system, I would like to know whether or not counting >unique moves can be done accurately. How would it compare, in accuracy, >to the present component card system or add counting? Just what, exactly, do you think the entire panel of Comp judges are doing? If anything, what we need is Presentation Card Reform! Yes, one judge on each PC category and subjective (quantitative) things for them to base their judgements on. Any attempt by a single judge to count unique moves would be too complicated and inaccurate. >What's your opinion? We'd like to know. We who? If you want reform like what you are asking for, then we need a new event format, not a new judging system. That, I believe, is the response you are really fishing for. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 18 01:54:03 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA05399 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 01:53:50 GMT Received: from kilobit@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4262) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04260 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:19:29 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f23.hotmail.com [207.82.250.34]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA14511 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 15:19:32 -0800 Received: (qmail 24310 invoked by uid 0); 17 Feb 1998 23:19:28 -0000 Message-ID: <19980217231928.24309.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.109.225.165 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 15:19:26 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.109.225.165] From: "A Chubby Josh Penney" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unique Move Counters Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 15:19:26 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>What do you think about unique move counters? >Just what, exactly, do you think the entire panel of Comp judges are doing? Counting category ticks, which is something else entirely. >If anything, what we need is Presentation Card Reform! How about measuring the merits of one idea at a time? Lots of ideas are great but confusing the issue is bad. >Any attempt by a single judge to count unique moves >would be too complicated and inaccurate. Here we go! "con!" Okay, how about having two people counting, instead of one? This would cover most innaccuracies, esp. if the counters are trained properly. >>What's your opinion? We'd like to know. > >We who? 'We' means those who wish to participate in this discourse. JP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 18 03:37:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA06192 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 03:37:37 GMT Received: from kaplanb@mscd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6030) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA06028 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 03:06:05 GMT Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20014 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:06:10 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-9 #24550) with SMTP id <0EOK007010IX1Z@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:04:09 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:04:08 -0700 (MST) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] Mardi Gras? To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I posted this on footbag@footbag but I thought I'd put it here to. Anyone kicking down in New Orleans this coming weekend? If so, where? BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 18 07:50:34 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA07405 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:50:21 GMT Received: from endor5@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6249) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA06247 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 04:00:12 GMT From: Endor5@aol.com Received: from imo27.mail.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.155]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21028 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:00:15 -0800 Received: from Endor5@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OCPQa12165 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:59:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:59:58 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Dexterity moves Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all. I was just wondering if there were any exerzises or drills to improved your dexterity moves? By the way, has anyone here ever tried to kick in Airwalks? They are all I have. (sob) Are they (much?) worse than Lavers. Heavier? I have never yet been privileged to kick in Lavers. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 18 08:38:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA16691 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:37:58 GMT Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA12422 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:28:03 GMT Received: from dept.english.upenn.edu (DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU [130.91.75.246]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA24689 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 00:28:09 -0800 Received: (from sunilj@localhost) by dept.english.upenn.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) id DAA80268; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 03:28:46 -0500 From: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani) Message-Id: <199802180828.DAA80268@dept.english.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Mardi Gras? To: kaplanb@mscd.edu (KAPLAN BRADLEY M) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 03:28:46 -0500 (EST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: from "KAPLAN BRADLEY M" at Feb 17, 98 08:04:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yo Heads: I will be in Nahrleenz this weekend with LAVERS ON! I am arriving into the PHAT CITY friday afternoon and am staying until the wee hours of Monday morning. I would definitely be up for a Mardi Gras Shred... unfortunately, it may be hard to coordinate a place since all of New Orleans will be jam packed with drunk people and cops on whores back, oops... horseback that is. Hey, maybe instead of giving the girls beads so they flash us, we can get them to flash us every time we hit a double dexterity move (if it were only that easy). Sunil Jani From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 18 16:30:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00810 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:29:14 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (422) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00420 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:51:42 GMT Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA30033 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:51:40 -0800 Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac9.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.149]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA16484 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:51:34 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA15822 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:51:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:51:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802181551.KAA15822@rac9.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] altering judging system Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org just a few questions: Why have less judges? What difference would be made by having less component cards determining unique moves? How does doing such actually make the job easier for those who are judging? As one of two persons who have habitually assigned judges to cards in the past, your ideas would make my potential future work easier, but how would it benefit the actual competition? We have the number of judges we currently use in order to make the jobs of the actual judges easier. My problem with the established judging system is that there are too few players who are skillfull and willing to do the job that needs to be done in judging. Making the number of judges fewer to me doesn't solve the problem, only perpetuates it, allowing those who would not choose to work for what they want capable of working less. My problem with the current judging system itself if anything is the amount of discipline and knowledge it requires from the judges- but no one wants to be judged on a basis independent of knowledge about freestyle and freestyle is complicated. In short, the problem with the judging system is that the players need to learn how to do their jobs better as judges. We need lengthier training sessions for all aspects, and we need to encourage clubs to require judging skills of their players. In truth I don't feel the judges do a bad job now, but I do hear alot of complaints about how the system is easily misunderstood, or doesn't do the job. The system is capable of being understood and is capable of serving as an accurate evaluator of competition. No matter what the judging system is or will be, it will never be affective if the players never agree on what it is supposed to do, or how it is supposed to do it. Of course, if it is agreed that the current system is not evaluating what the players want to be evaluated on in competition, then the jobs the judges do need to be changed, and this will require new systems for educating the judges prior to doing their jobs. What is the consensus- what do people want to be judged on? What do players feel is lacking in the current system, AND WHY? Where has the current system failed to evaluate players fairly? To answer these questions, it would be worthwhile to have the opinions of the top eight players for every year we can. Online, discussions like this I think excludes 3 of the top 5 finishers. Reducing the number of judges to accomplish the same job usually implies judges will have to be more skillful judges. Is this what people want? To be more reliant on fewer skillful judges for assessment of comparative skills? l8r- vince From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 18 16:30:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00832 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:29:16 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (498) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00496 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:00:07 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f86.hotmail.com [207.82.250.192]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA30259 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:00:07 -0800 Received: (qmail 14635 invoked by uid 0); 18 Feb 1998 16:00:03 -0000 Message-ID: <19980218160003.14634.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.156 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:00:02 PST X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.156] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unique Move Counters Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:00:02 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derrick Fogle wrote: >This is something that Andrew McCargar already suggested. My apologies to Mr. McCarger for not paying closer attention to his posts. Any and all credit for the idea should go to him. >Consider playing at the 3-add/contact level. Any judge will have to >keep track of 3/5 of all moves anyway. Realistically, the delay, dex, >and xb judges have to keep track of it all anyway. Good point. I believe that counting components is actually HARDER than counting unique moves. Let's take a judge in the current system. Once a trick is completed, the judge has to process: 1. whether the judge's assigned component is present in the move 2. whether the move is unique Obviously, a unique move counter(UMC) would only have to process the latter. However, the UMC would also have to be able to count higher. Maybe as high as 20, 30, or even 40! >I would be in favor of using unique move judges just like we use add >counters now (generally an average of 2 judges). I think if anything >it would be more accurate, not less. And would require 3 less judges. Boo-Yaa! Honestly, I don't believe this idea is the "end all, be all." But it is a step in right direction. In the near future, I will propose a new judging scheme that includes UMCs. (I know you're all on the edge of your seats.) Dan Kramer P.S. For all you guys that despise this thread, here's something for you: How much bag would a footbag bag, if a footbag could foot bag? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 18 16:30:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00789 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:29:10 GMT Received: from sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3839) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA03825 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:25:12 GMT Received: from dept.english.upenn.edu (DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU [130.91.75.246]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA26055 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 01:25:18 -0800 Received: (from sunilj@localhost) by dept.english.upenn.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) id EAA46256 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 04:25:56 -0500 From: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani) Message-Id: <199802180925.EAA46256@dept.english.upenn.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Attention Chapel Hill, Tuscon, and SF... To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 04:25:56 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey All: I am finding out about grad school interviews and within the next month I will be in Chapel Hill, NC; Tuscon, Arizona; and San Francisco, CA. I know a ton of people who want to shred in SF, but as for Chapel Hill (ERNEST CVERICH) and Tuscon (???) I have not been in touch with anyone. Any freestylers out there who wouldn't mind sheredding with an out of towners (but someone who may possible be at the local university for 5+ years) please get in touch with me. Cool, later. Sunil From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 18 16:44:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00958 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:44:10 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (916) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00914 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:41:30 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA31222 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:41:30 -0800 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.03.0014/4c.adoc) with ESMTP id ca164634 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:50:24 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] altering judging system Message-Id: <000000076622970665293@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:48:13 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, Feb 18, 1998, 9:51:30 AM US CST Procrastinator the VIIIth wrote: >Is this what people want? To be more reliant on fewer skillful judges for >assessment of comparative skills? That's one of the things that I want, yes. -- Derrick Fogle -- Heartland Eye Banks -- dfogle@mlerf.org -- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 18 21:37:03 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02549 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:36:41 GMT Received: from jsbx@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2489) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02487 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:31:02 GMT From: JSBX@aol.com Received: from imo27.mail.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.155]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05818 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:31:04 -0800 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OQJYa12187 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:30:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:30:41 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] hard to bear-walks Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi hi folks! You really ought to get lavers, they truly are great shoes for kicking. Don't feel bad if all you have to kick with are Airwalks. I have a pair or two that i wear to school but don't usually kick in. I have found them to be heavier than Lavers (especially modified lavers), which makes some dexterity moves harder. The toe is decent for stalls, but the insteps and outsteps aren't that great. There are a few things to be said about them however. First of all, they have good shock absorbance (however, shock absorbance only really starts to matter when you start doing 3 and 4 add moves, and those are hard to do in airwalks). Secondly, they have good sole area, so flapper stalls and any other sole based move is easier than with lavers, or at least they allow for a larger margin of error. Third and most importantly, airwalks have fat ass heels, which allow for real easy cross body heel stalls and heeliums that actually go over. That is my one complaint about the lavers, their heel area is small enough that heel stalling is real challenging. Waiting for it to stop raining so i can kick already.... Soma From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 18 22:06:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02744 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:06:52 GMT Received: from hackin420@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2699) Received: from hotmail.com (f139.hotmail.com [207.82.251.18]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA02697 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:01:28 GMT Received: (qmail 4366 invoked by uid 0); 18 Feb 1998 22:01:00 -0000 Message-ID: <19980218220100.4365.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 129.71.123.66 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:01:00 PST X-Originating-IP: [129.71.123.66] From: "jeff shields" To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] facile footbags Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:01:00 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have been wanting a facile juice for a while but I have not gotten around to getting one. I have a twisted, and a stork foot bag which I love. It was so pretty that I hard time kicking it outdoors. But I have never had trouble loosening up any of my facile footbags. Jeff ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 18 22:10:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02811 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:10:15 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2757) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02755 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:09:31 GMT Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06812 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:09:33 -0800 Received: from [207.208.136.40] (d40.focal.interaccess.com [207.208.136.40]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id QAA02730; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:09:12 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:09:12 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "A Chubby Josh Penney" , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unique Move Counters Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Josh and freestylers! >>Just what, exactly, do you think the entire panel of Comp judges are >doing? >Counting category ticks, which is something else entirely. Or more specifically, counting "Cagegory Unique Moves", which is what I said the first time. >Here we go! "con!" >Okay, how about having two people counting, instead of one? This would >cover most innaccuracies, esp. if the counters are trained properly. Still not good enough. Not even close. Have you ever sat down and tried to count unique moves in a 2-minute performance? I think not, based on your answers. At '94 Heart of Freestyle, Kenny used this wierd system that made us count unique moves, and we had to do it on paper, by videotape and alot of slo-mo in a post-event fashion just to be even close to accurate. It is a failed concept. It is inaccurate enough having the five judges counting unique moves by categories, could you imagine having only 2 judges? If the issue is "shortage of judges", then how about a videotape that explains the freestyle system (like I am sure they have for figure skating) in great detail and enables "non-player judges" to assist. You couldn't have just anyone be a non-player judge, they obviously need a good grasp of the sport, but it would make much better judges and players out of everyone who participated. That might be a good project to propose to the IFAB for production in '98-'99 season. What do you think? See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 18 22:11:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02839 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:11:35 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2778) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02776 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:09:39 GMT Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06827 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:09:41 -0800 Received: from [207.208.136.40] (d40.focal.interaccess.com [207.208.136.40]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id QAA02739; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:09:14 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:09:14 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Procrastinator the VIIIth , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [freestyle] altering judging system Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Vince and Freestylers! Vince Wrote: >Why have less judges? >Online, discussions like this I think >excludes 3 of the top 5 finishers. > >Reducing the number of judges to accomplish the same job usually implies >judges will have to be more skillful judges. >Is this what people want? To be more reliant on fewer skillful judges for >assessment of comparative skills? Go Vince! You tell 'em! With what Vince said, lets keep in mind my idea for a training videotape that explains the system in great detail, and even tests the judges (or potential judges). We need more "super-qualified" judges! See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 18 22:16:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02912 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:16:39 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2877) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02875 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:15:24 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06984; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:15:27 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] ([206.66.71.45]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02872; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:15:23 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:17:44 -0800 To: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unique Move Counters Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:09 PM -0800 2/18/98, Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter wrote: >That might be a good project to propose to the IFAB for production in >'98-'99 season. What do you think? I think instead we should just simplify the judging system for '99, essentially throwing away the formula-based system and replacing it with a variation of Dan Kramer's ranked-component-like system. A lot of these nit-picky issues would go away if we did that. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 19 01:55:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04223 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:55:07 GMT Received: from hill9361@uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3820) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03818 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 23:59:57 GMT Received: from hawk.csrv.uidaho.edu (hawk.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.119.142]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA09679 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:59:59 -0800 Received: from raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (root@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.192.43]) by hawk.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_12836)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA25716 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:59:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA14328 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:43:53 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.csrv.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:43:53 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand X-Sender: hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shoes In-Reply-To: <19980128184803.25723.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I agree with Andrew 100%. Someone should design a new freestyle shoe. Adidas apparently wouldn't even consider it. Oh well. They are trying to market their footbags to soccer players as 'soccer training tools'. Gimme a break. Aren't we trying to make this a well known sport!? Maybe WFA could get into the shoe making business? __________________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 19 01:55:17 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04237 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:55:12 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4147) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04145 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:42:46 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f17.hotmail.com [207.82.250.28]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA12142 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:42:50 -0800 Received: (qmail 4369 invoked by uid 0); 19 Feb 1998 01:42:49 -0000 Message-ID: <19980219014249.4368.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.41 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:42:49 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.41] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unique Move Counters Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:42:49 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >I think instead we should just simplify the judging system for '99, >essentially throwing away the formula-based system and replacing it with a >variation of Dan Kramer's ranked-component-like system. A lot of these >nit-picky issues would go away if we did that. > > Steve > To quickly admit all due prejudice I think the ranked component system sucks. I think there should always be some finite definition of how difficult or "good" a routine is, so I think we should keep some version of the formula based system. I like the idea that two thirds of the formula based system is technical, but the way that presentation is now judged in the formula based system, let alone the ranked competitor system, it is too easy for someone's personal biases to affect the score. Anyway if we are going to keep the formula based system it needs to be changed, as it stands I think Steve put it best when he called it "Constipated." Here is my list of what I think needs to change. 1. It requires too many judges, which I'm guessing is the main reason why most tournaments don't use it. 2. It is way too %$^#ing complicated. We should have a system that is both finite in it's scoring and easily understood, and not just by us poor obsessed souls. 3. What ever system we use the presentation part of the score needs to be more clearly defined. 4. Lastly and this may just be purely personal but the elements are out of proportion. Drops are counted against you three times, some of the presentation elements are redundant and the comp cards, in my opinion can hinder individual style. Who is to say that a perfect routine has twenty dexteritys or thirty delays? Just my humble opinion, Andrew McCargar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 19 02:08:59 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA04330 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:08:58 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4296) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA04294 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:06:44 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA12754 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:06:48 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA04291; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:06:40 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980219014249.4368.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:09:28 -0800 To: "Andrew Feuerdrache" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unique Move Counters Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 5:42 PM -0800 2/18/98, Andrew Feuerdrache wrote: > To quickly admit all due prejudice I think the ranked component system >sucks. I didn't say we should use the Ranked Component system. I said we should use Dan Kramer's proposal. Ask Dan to send out an updated proposal if you want to know what it is. It is pointless to argue about something you haven't seen yet. >I like the idea that two thirds of the >formula based system is technical, but the way that presentation is now >judged in the formula based system, let alone the ranked competitor >system, it is too easy for someone's personal biases to affect the >score. I say we make it 100% personal bias and make people accountable for it. Just like they do in most other judged sports. The current freestyle event for which we're discussing this set of rules is *not* a technical discipline; it's a combination of technical and presentation -- it's like the "long program" in figure skating. As Scott Davidson implied, we have to be clear whether or not we're talking about coming up with a *new* event that is more technical in nature, or attemping to honor the spirit of the current event and fixing the judging system to make it more reflective of those goals. Everyone needs to understand this distinction if ever we are to make progress on these types of discussions. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 19 02:36:12 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA04484 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:36:11 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4451) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA04449 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:33:30 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f129.hotmail.com [207.82.251.8]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA13459 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:33:35 -0800 Received: (qmail 23821 invoked by uid 0); 19 Feb 1998 02:33:34 -0000 Message-ID: <19980219023334.23820.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.41 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:33:33 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.41] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unique Move Counters Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:33:33 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve wrote, >I didn't say we should use the Ranked Component system. I said we should >use Dan Kramer's system. Ask Dan to send out an updated proposal if you >want to know what it is. It is pointless to argue about something you >haven't seen yet. you're right it is. I'd like to see a copy. >for which we're discussing this set of rules is *not* a technical >discipline; it's a combination of technical and presentation -- it's like >the "long program" in figure skating. Not to harp on this too excessively but I basically agree. The point I never really made was that I think we should make the system so that the technical scores are basically a formality to ensure that a routine is difficult enough, but a large enough chunk so that they can't be ignored, and then have the presentation score really determine the best routine. However for that to be an option the presentation score elements must be clearly defined and leave more room for differing styles. Not that I'm joining the arguments of a certain person at footbag.com but for example you can't really win any tournaments if you don't stall or don't have any dexterity moves. Or maybe I am just harping on this too much? Andrew McCargar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 19 02:50:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA04582 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:50:34 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4548) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA04546 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:46:03 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13729 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:46:07 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA04543; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:45:54 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <19980128184803.25723.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:48:10 -0800 To: Matt Hillebrand From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Shoes Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:43 AM -0800 1/28/98, Matt Hillebrand wrote: >I agree with Andrew 100%. I don't know why this message just showed up now. It's obviously two weeks old. But I feel compelled to comment on it to correct some obvious factual errors and general misinterpretations of reality manifested by Matt's message: >Someone should design a new freestyle shoe. Adidas apparently wouldn't >even consider it. Oh well. They are trying to market their footbags to >soccer players as 'soccer training tools'. (1) Adidas Footbags are not made by Adidas the shoe company. They're made by Pastime Sports, which is John Stalberger's company. John Stalberger is *the* man -- he co-invented the footbag and it's *his* dream you're living. Pastime Sports licenses the adidas name for this footbag, and it's a good thing, not a bad thing, when we can ally ourselves with a mainstream sport in any way. >Gimme a break. Aren't we trying to make this a well known sport!? (2) Who is the "we" you're speaking of? >Maybe WFA could get into the shoe making business? (3) I think I already addressed this two weeks ago. There is no money in making freestyle shoes and it's not like WFA is rolling in the dough. We're all struggling to promote this sport in our own ways. Many of us volunteer long hours and real dollars to this sport. It's not the right time for people like you to start making demands of those of us who make this sport our passion, and that includes the WFA. They have poured their hearts and souls into footbag, and barely make a living at it. So merely suggesting that they should be entering yet another losing business proposition is disingenuous. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 19 17:20:22 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00714 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:18:42 GMT Received: from vernd@geotrac.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8251) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA08249 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:06:53 GMT Received: from mail.accnorwalk.com (mail.accnorwalk.com [207.87.221.24]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA22285 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 06:07:01 -0800 Received: from vernd.geotrac.com ([207.87.222.34]) by mail.accnorwalk.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release 0122 ID# 564-36438U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA127 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:09:36 -0500 Received: by vernd.geotrac.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BD3D15.8F61C9C0@vernd.geotrac.com>; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:05:44 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD3D15.8F61C9C0@vernd.geotrac.com> From: Vern DeHaven To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Dexterity moves Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:05:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Endor5@aol.com said: > > By the way, has anyone here ever tried to kick in Airwalks? They = are all >I have. (sob) Are they (much?) worse than Lavers. Heavier? I have = never yet >been privileged to kick in Lavers.=20 Hello all! I haven't kicked in Lavers yet either, but I kinda like my Airwalks. = The toe and heel are HUGE, but, as Soma said, they're pretty heavy. The = best shoes I've kicked in are old school Pumas, especially when they get = old. They're light, and become as supple as facile when they age a bit = (well, that may be pushing it). I know Cole's stopped making bags, but has anyone seen any strays? I = should have never given mine away. As good as those bags were, I = thought they'd be around forever! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 19 17:20:22 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00725 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:18:43 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (167) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00165 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:03:46 GMT Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA23194 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 07:03:46 -0800 Received: from rac8.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac8.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.148]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01338 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:03:44 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac8.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA12549 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:03:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:03:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802191503.KAA12549@rac8.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] freestyle judging system Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From the vantage point of a freestyle director, again having only skillfull judges would be great and only needing a few of them comparatively even better. Who is volunteering? And who will decide who is skillfull? Trying to assign judges for the categories we currently have involves finding who thinks they are good judges for the categories, who is good at judging difficult categories, who can judge at what time, and who can we draft who can do the job- any job- when the list of skillfull judges is limited when there is great need. Hey Derrick- are you ready to judge unique moves? How about add counting- we need good skillfull judges in that category? Easy solution- reduce the variety of jobs, have unique move counters. This is NOT A SOLUTION. Unless everyone who is in favor of the idea volunteers to do the job and proves themselves capable. And any volunteerism made on this list I will not even bother trying to remember. Or write down for future reference. Even so, with as many volunteers as there are supporters for the change, it would make it difficult at worlds, because all of you have to compete, and at some point there would assuredly be a judge shortage. Even with less jobs to fill. This is primarily due to the fact that unique move counting is a job only slightly less difficult than add counting, slightly more difficult than contacts counting. These are two of the hardest jobs to fill- they have to be concise for the judging system. An error in these areas can seriously affect the outcome. SPeculate as much as you like, I have had to do the recounts, and I have had to make the rank changes. And I have also made the errors that created the problem in the first place. I don't consider myself a skillfull judge, but I am willing to try and do the job fairly, whenever I am needed. At least I havebeen in the past. This year I may actually decide I want to compete at my top level. The argument that the current system with the divided add cards is more difficult on the judge is bogus. The skills required for each job, unique move counting and ad component spotting are the same. How do you distinguish one move from another if not by the add components? It looks different. How many ways can any skillfull player make a move look different? How easy is it to miss a paradox component and only see the finish? I guess not having to identify the add components involved in a paradox, remembering 'body', a difficult skill, or other moves may make the job easier for those who don't understand add components ( note this is a lack of education, not a problem with the system ), but how likely is it that someone who isn't sure of the add components of these moves is actually likely to be able to distinguish it from similar moves? Especially when presented with stylistic differences among the players? It sounds like the attempt to make th judging system simpler is being done without real examination of what is likely to happen. People want change, fine, but WHY? Will the change necessarily improve anything? There is always room for improvement, but a system isn't fully tested until it is used affectively. Creating different systems and never fullytesting them is a waste of time. Ultimately it can only serve a greater system by requiring more demand on education about freestyle in general for continually having to adjust to new systems. Hey- does anyone out there know who is directing freestyle this year at Worlds? I'm kind of curious. l8r- have a good day- vince From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 19 17:20:22 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00738 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:18:46 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (509) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00507 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:22:24 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f93.hotmail.com [207.82.250.199]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA24549 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:22:25 -0800 Received: (qmail 14209 invoked by uid 0); 19 Feb 1998 16:22:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19980219162224.14208.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.156 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:22:23 PST X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.156] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Unique Move Counters/Proposal Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:22:23 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org As far as unique move counting, Scott D.'s criticism is valid. Even though I think it would be more accurate than the comp. cards or add counting, it is still not 100% accurate. I could rehash many of the arguments I made against the current system, and they would be valid against unique move counters. I just thought it would be a nice intermediate step for reform. Here's the proposal: Firstly, I want say that this system is 100% subjective. Now before you go off about bias and the whole nine, keep this in mind: with this system, the freestyle finals judges in '97 could've been: Kenny Shults, Steve Goldberg, Tuan Vu, Vince Bradley, Derrick Fogle, and Noah Dubreuil. Would anyone have trouble with these guys judging them? 1.Each judge will be able to score a routine between 0 and 10. 2.A framework for the scoring will be given along with descriptions. Example (And this is only an example. The specifics can be argued later) : floor, planes and travel 0-1.0, description of blah, blah music & movement 0-1.0 " general form 0-1.0 " personality & originality 0-1.0 " variety 0-2.0 " difficulty 0-4.0 " Mandatory deductions: .1 for every drop REMEMBER: These can be modified to suit whatever IFAB agrees on. After the scores are tabulated, the players are ranked 1-whatever. Now here's the kicker. Using the ranks and figure skating's ordinal system (yes, the same one in the Olympics), we would find out the results. I don't want to go into a whole description of the ordinal system, but here's a page that describes it pretty well: http://frog.simplenet.com/skateweb/faq/rules.shtml#Q1 You only need to check out sections 1-4. If you don't have web access and want to know what ordinals are and how they work, contact me and I'll send you a copy. Basically, the highest number of first place rankings is first, etc., with tie-breakers and other fun stuff. Whoot, there it is! Dan Kramer From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 19 17:36:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00885 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:36:34 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (840) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00838 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:34:46 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26355 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:34:47 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00835; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:34:41 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199802191503.KAA12549@rac8.wam.umd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:37:17 -0800 To: Procrastinator the VIIIth From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] freestyle judging system Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 7:03 AM -0800 2/19/98, Vince Bradley wrote: >Hey- does anyone out there know who is directing freestyle this year at >Worlds? >I'm kind of curious. That'd be me. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 19 21:15:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA01942 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:14:51 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1689) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA01687 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:29:22 GMT Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA30693 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:29:24 -0800 Received: from [207.208.138.46] (d46.focal3.interaccess.com [207.208.138.46]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id OAA15700; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:28:58 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:28:58 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Procrastinator the VIIIth , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [freestyle] freestyle judging system Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! Vince wrote: >This is primarily due to the fact that unique move counting is a job only >slightly less difficult than add counting, slightly more difficult than >contacts counting. These are two of the hardest jobs to fill- they have >to be concise for the >judging system. You have got to be kidding. The absolutely easiest job of judging is "Contacts" (very easy, but accuracy is necessary, still very easy). Add counting is pretty easy, once you get the hang of it, but still, even I don't like to count adds (except on video). Again, I speak from experience, counting unique moves is EXTREMELY difficult (especially if you value accuracy), VERY much harder than add counting, and on a whole other planet in terms of difficulty, than contact counting for sure. >This year I may actually decide I >want to compete at my top level. Go for it Vince! >The skills required for each job, unique move counting and ad component >spotting >are the same. Yea, but distinguishing 60 to 90 moves in 2 minutes as to which ones are unique is impossible. >Ultimately it can only serve a greater system by requiring more demand >on education about freestyle in general for continually having to adjust >to new systems. Hence, a videotape explaining our (already over 10 years old) system. >Hey- does anyone out there know who is directing freestyle this year at Worlds? >I'm kind of curious. Me too! 'Cause last year the guy who was running it really blew it. What a mess. No one bothered to notify the finalists as to who advanced out of their pools on the night of the 2nd round (and in what order). Lets make sure the results get posted promptly this year! I think the freestyle went great in Portland, (I was kidding above about "a mess", but not about the results display). Good job Vince and staff. I hope the event runs really smoothly in Montreal this year. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 19 21:39:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02117 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:38:59 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1955) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA01953 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:17:39 GMT Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA31713; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:17:39 -0800 Received: from rac8.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac8.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.148]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA19569; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:17:38 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac8.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA26705; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:17:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:17:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802192117.QAA26705@rac8.wam.umd.edu> To: enlightener@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] freestyle judging system Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sorry for the misstatement about difficulty in contact counting. I hadn't thought about it thoroughly, only know people resist add counting and contact counting more than any other judging assigment. That and the fact that a mess up in contact counting is a big ugly mess up to try and correct. It has happened. I hadn't thought that unique move counting might be harder than counting adds, but it sounds like it would be. And it would also require a very precise eye for stylistic differences. A whirl from an osis can look diffferent from the average whirl, but it is not a unique move. Styley combo, yes, unique move compared to normal whirl on same side, no. more l8r, probably- vince From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 19 22:00:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02381 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:00:13 GMT Received: from jjones@mapquest.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2269) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02267 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:52:10 GMT Received: from wildes.mapquest.com (wildes.mapquest.com [205.169.153.92]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA32579 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:52:09 -0800 Received: from boyd.mapquest (boyd.mapquest.com [205.169.153.37]) by wildes.mapquest.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA22213 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:49:56 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980219144228.007b7470@wildes.mapquest.com> X-Sender: jjones@wildes.mapquest.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:42:29 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Jane Jones Subject: Re: [freestyle] freestyle judging system Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey hey, Pardon this message if you have already debated the pros and cons of it, but has there ever been any serious consideration in having a pre-composed comp card known to all competitors within a particular event. Similar to ice skating, I suppose, where there is basically a list of adds or moves the player needs to execute. It seems that if there was a standard other than length of routine that the other complicated judging issues would either disappear or become easier to define to a known set of guidelines. It would probably make it easier for people to learn how to judge other players unbiasedly (word?). To have a pre-defined comp card with minimum add or move requirements would also be a great qualifier for who competes in advanced, intermediate, or novice. Might even make it easier to determine pools. I'm not declaring that a simpler system is a better way--this sport is by no means simple. I just think that we should take into consideration some of the other predominate individualistic sports (ice skating, gymnastic, etc.) that have had much longer to evolve. Maybe we can overwrite some of these debates by taking the parts of other more evolved judging systems that seem logical for freestyle footbag judging criteria. Expedite the evolution of our judging system. Just a thought. adios, jane From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 20 00:02:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA03391 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:02:32 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3088) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03086 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:45:37 GMT Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02407 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:45:40 -0800 Received: from [207.208.138.46] (d22.focal.interaccess.com [207.208.136.22]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id RAA26682; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:44:59 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:44:59 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Jane Jones , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [freestyle] freestyle judging system Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Jane and Freestylers! Janes idea below is very similar to a new event that I was going to propose to the listserve. The problem with "predetermined" comp card, is not that it tends to put *tons* of emphasis on presentation, but that it may not fairly eliminate players. Unfortunately, we don't have invitationals where we want the 16 players to stay in all (X number of) rounds (like figure skating and gymnastics do). We have the unpopular job of eliminating players so we get to a manageable finals round. Janes idea would work best with a limited number of players. On another note (and probably another event), perhaps instead of having the system be "additive" (except for drops, the current worlds system is completely additive in nature), we could make it "subtractive". Meaning that the player starts out with all 30 (or X number of) points and the things that they don't do, and the things that they do "wrong" (like drops, slops and uncontrolled kicking) would cause deductions. So instead of looking for the "good" in routines (we assume that the players are "good" at the level they enter) we look for "bad". The latter of which is probably easier to spot, since "good" is expected even demanded, and "bad" is, well, bad. If there were another event option like the kind Jane suggested, we could have required elements like (for pro's) - 1 string of 4 or more consecutive 4 add moves. - 2 strings of .... (you get the picture, this needs to be worked out) - 1 string of spins - things like presentation also mandatory (must be quantified as to what is acceptable and necessary) The judges would only deduct if these required elements were not completed. (the more difficult players will benefit because of the "Difficulty Clause" mentioned below). Then on top of it all, we could itemize the "bad" things (those things that we don't want to see) and have Mandatory Deductions for these things (drops, slops, frowns, whatever [and this needs to be worked out too, of course]). We could keep the difficulty ratio, which counts adds and contacts (perhaps with a multiplier or some form of "subtractive" set-up for this, or maybe this could be the only component that is additive) to help give extra credit to those who did tougher moves in the required elements. Maybe we could also leave space for an "optional", something like extra credit. This would certainly end up using less judges, and making it "easier" to judge. We could have instant results and "single panel" judging (without interleaving). It seems that it could work at different levels by encouraging novice players toward a higher level of play, while *forcing* the pro's to a whole new level of performance. Hmmmm.... does anyone out there want to develop this with me? It sounds feasable. Scott Davidson MFA From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 20 02:19:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA04508 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 02:19:06 GMT Received: from dezoderant@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4281) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04279 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 01:54:37 GMT From: DeZoderant@aol.com Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.176]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05670 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:54:41 -0800 Received: from DeZoderant@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id HDISa03597; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:50:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4d58f144.34ece184@aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:50:58 EST To: vernd@geotrac.com, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Dexterity moves (coles) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 98-02-19 12:22:41 EST, vernd@geotrac.com writes: << I know Cole's stopped making bags, but has anyone seen any strays? I should have never given mine away. As good as those bags were, I thought they'd be around forever! >> I am pretty good friends with Dyaln Cole (the son of Eric Cole who owned coles footbags). I dont see dylan much but i called him a while back to see if he could hook me up with an ultima 38 and he said that there are absoultly NONE left. I currently have a facile sleeper 20 panel made by coles and a mini rainbow if anyone is interested. But as for new bags they are all done. Lates Joey From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 20 16:49:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00751 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:49:00 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (603) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00601 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:33:21 GMT From: Nageylum@aol.com Received: from imo30.mail.aol.com (imo30.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.168]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA17376 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:33:21 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo30.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OFKBa19885 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:33:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:33:04 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] blurry? skooling? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey, well recently i've been wondering about moves that have blurry attached to them and was wondering because most or rather most of the ones i've seen have also had a paradox motion with them, and i was wondering if you get a body add for all blurry moves, along with the dex.?? and on another note, i was wondering about move progression of 3 and 4 add moves and if it was better to "skool" one move at a time or to work on several moves at one time? Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 20 17:22:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00891 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:21:45 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (841) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00839 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:16:25 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18481 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:16:26 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.47] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00836; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:16:18 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:18:23 -0800 To: Nageylum@aol.com From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] blurry? skooling? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 8:33 AM -0800 2/20/98, Josh Childs wrote: >well recently i've been wondering about moves that have blurry attached to >them and was wondering because most or rather most of the ones i've seen have >also had a paradox motion with them, and i was wondering if you get a body add >for all blurry moves, along with the dex.?? Your observation is correct and yes, you do get a body add for blurry moves. Here's a general discussion of "blurry": Blurry moves are so called because they fit the form of Blur, which is a miraging paradox-mirage with a foot-plant for each dexterity. Moves that begin with a fast-planting mirage and that are followed with a paradox move (with no contact between the first mirage and the paradox move) are "blurry". Examples: blurry whirl (miraging paradox-whirl), blurry blender (miraging paradox-blender), blurry blur (miraging paradox-blur), etc. Moves that *look* blurry because of the initial planting mirage, but that don't involve a paradox, are often referred to as simply "stepping" (and are not referred to as "blurry"). However, in most cases "stepping" moves are ambiguous -- i.e., you can't tell from the name which side you do the move on. So many people will say "same-side" for ones where the second dexterity (if there is one) is done on the same side of the body. Examples of stepping (without the extra same-side, other-side given here so it is an exercise to the reader) are: stepping butterfly (miraging butterfly, no paradox), stepping barfly ("blurriest" if to opposite side), stepping eclipse, etc., etc. If you don't plant after a mirage (i.e., if you do the mirage symposium-style) and follow it with a paradox move (again, with no contact in between), many people call that "pogo" but that terminology is still not completely agreed upon. Don't want to go down that rathole here but figured I'd at least mention it for completeness. >and on another note, i was wondering about move progression of 3 and 4 add >moves and if it was better to "skool" one move at a time or to work on several >moves at one time? Many people skool combos as part of their practice regimen. But if you're working on a new move, it's best (in my opinion) to drill it over and over again by itself. Always practice both sides; never start working on a move and then bailing without really trying the other side, too. A lot of times, if pros get together to skool (which is somewhat different than playing regularly), they will try a move several times in a row (i.e., drop, pick up, try again). This is something you have to agree upon before you start kicking (if you're practicing with someone else) because some people just want to keep a rhythm and flow, and it's rude to interrupt the flow unless you're all on the same wavelength that you're skooling and not shredding. Sometimes my friends and I will give ourselves 3 tries each before passing, when skooling new moves or combos. And a circle can change from being Skool to being Shred and back again, but too much quick change between the two modes is annoying to someone almost every time. :-) Make any sense? Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 20 17:34:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01005 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:34:43 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (952) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00950 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:30:16 GMT From: Nageylum@aol.com Received: from imo30.mail.aol.com (imo30.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.168]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18900; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:30:17 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo30.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OCHJa19955; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:30:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2671614.34edbd9e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:30:04 EST To: brat@footbag.org Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] blurry? skooling? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 98-02-20 12:16:27 EST, brat@footbag.org writes: << Many people skool combos as part of their practice regimen. But if you're working on a new move, it's best (in my opinion) to drill it over and over again by itself. Always practice both sides; never start working on a move and then bailing without really trying the other side too. >> i've learning the hard way about skooling both sides right about now, those evil D.A.W. i seemed to forget about my weaker leg when i started to hit them, and i am paying the price now, and it's harder to skool a move that you know you can do on the other leg, but that's the way it has to be for me(for now at least) <> perfect sense in fact Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Feb 21 00:33:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04113 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:33:35 GMT Received: from rtroxel@ops.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for footbag@majordomo.footbag.org (1755) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01753 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:00:18 GMT Received: from ns1.ops.org (ns1.ops.org [204.26.70.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA20727; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:00:16 -0800 Received: from ops.org (ops.ops.org [204.26.70.3]) by ns1.ops.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA16434; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:00:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost by ops.org; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Jul97-0529PM) id AA05558; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:00:12 -0600 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:00:12 -0600 (CST) From: Ryan Troxel To: Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] shoe repairs In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey all of this talk about how to modify shoes has got me wondering how to repair them. my tongue on the lavers have tore away from the shoe. is there a preferred method to repairing this as i like the comfort of having them in rather than out. I have seen a few lavers with this problem. has anyone else experienced this? rye From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Feb 21 00:33:43 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04124 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:33:37 GMT Received: from rtroxel@ops.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1704) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01702 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:56:59 GMT Received: from ns1.ops.org (ns1.ops.org [204.26.70.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA20648; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:56:59 -0800 Received: from ops.org (ops.ops.org [204.26.70.3]) by ns1.ops.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA09856; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:56:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost by ops.org; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Jul97-0529PM) id AA13125; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:56:57 -0600 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:56:57 -0600 (CST) From: Ryan Troxel To: Steve Goldberg Cc: Procrastinator the VIIIth , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] p-wrap? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i was trying paradox drifters and hit this move in the process: paradox wrap? job's-- CLIP>SAME IN [DEX][BOD]>[DEL][DEX] HUMAN-- set for a paradox drifter but do a wrap after the "S" curve. Is this a move or just a bastarded drifter? rye From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Feb 21 00:35:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04160 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:35:15 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2191) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02189 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:05:56 GMT Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA22126; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:05:57 -0800 Received: from rac6.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac6.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.146]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12304; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:05:40 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac6.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA15414; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:05:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:05:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802202005.PAA15414@rac6.wam.umd.edu> To: brat@footbag.org, rtroxel@ops.org Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: p-wrap? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i'll be damned. the wrap itself isn't paradox by my customary definition. its basically a guay ( around the world to inside surface ) from a clipper followed by a wrap. but it sounds like it would look way cool. depending on how long the delay is in front, or how smooth the transition is to the carry of the wrap, it could also be a refraction from a clipper set, with a bare if any dexterity preceding it. this would consitute the same thing as a bastarded paradox drifter, i think. l8r- vince From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Feb 21 00:35:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04179 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:35:25 GMT Received: from cochrane@v-wave.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2674) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02672 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:03:01 GMT Received: from mail.videotron.ab.ca (mail.videotron.ab.ca [206.75.216.210]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23466 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:03:03 -0800 Received: from binc-1 (footbag.v-wave.com [24.108.13.197]) by mail.videotron.ab.ca (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA7099 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:02:50 -0700 From: "Cochrane" To: Subject: [freestyle] Judging System Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:06:04 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd3e43$5b30d5e0$c50d6c18@binc-1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, Having never competed in freestyle, and maybe never going to, my opinion may not be valid but here it is anyway. Dan wrote: >Using the ranks and figure skating's ordinal system (yes, the same one in the Olympics), we would find out the results That would really only work if Eastern Block countries were judging and they had the feeling that north americans suck and would never let them rank in the top 3. Good system though :) Jane wrote: >has there ever been any serious consideration in having a pre-composed comp card known to all competitors within a particular event. This is a decent idea, but say youre competing for the first time and you cant bust out clippers on both sides and that was a requirement. Even if you could hit Butterfly-Whirl-Swirl-Torque, but really sucked a plain old left foot clippers, you wouldnt be able to compete. Thats the only real disadvantage I can see. FootBINC footbag@v-wave.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Feb 21 05:12:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA05594 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Feb 1998 05:12:47 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5542) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA05540 for ; Sat, 21 Feb 1998 05:07:40 GMT From: Nageylum@aol.com Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.42]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00379; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:07:45 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id NMEQa03199; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:47:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3a5fb059.34ee402e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:47:07 EST To: rtroxel@ops.org, enlightener@footbag.org Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] shoe repairs Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 98-02-20 19:34:22 EST, rtroxel@ops.org writes: << hey all of this talk about how to modify shoes has got me wondering how to repair them. my tongue on the lavers have tore away from the shoe. is there a preferred method to repairing this as i like the comfort of having them in rather than out. I have seen a few lavers with this problem. has anyone else experienced this? >> ya know i had the same problem with my lavers with-in the first week, and i found after hard work and a nice coat of shoe goo it will be stronger than ever Josh C. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Feb 21 07:13:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA10192 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Feb 1998 07:12:33 GMT Received: from cfa@footbagcanada.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5949) Received: from srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (srv1.reelwest.bc.ca [207.194.197.99]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA05947 for ; Sat, 21 Feb 1998 05:55:15 GMT From: Scott Milne Received: from chard (unverified [207.194.197.147]) by srv1.reelwest.bc.ca (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:55:02 -0800 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:55:02 -0800 Message-ID: X-Sender: cfa@intouch.bc.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] I miss Eric Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >I know Cole's stopped making bags, but has anyone seen any strays? I >should have never given mine away. As good as those bags were, I >thought they'd be around forever! At least one of Eric's designs lives on... The CFA offers Eric's original 20 Panel Footbag. It can be found at www.footbagcanada.com or through the links page of Footbag Worldwide. Hopefully all of the Cole's designs can resurrected one day. I miss seeing them at tournaments. Scott From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 22 01:36:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA01945 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 01:35:05 GMT Received: from dezoderant@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1885) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA01883 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 01:24:30 GMT From: DeZoderant@aol.com Received: from imo28.mail.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.156]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17123 for ; Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:24:34 -0800 Received: from DeZoderant@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OXSVa16668 for ; Sat, 21 Feb 1998 20:24:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3249f26c.34ef7e50@aol.com> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 20:24:30 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Toe Sets Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just got Tricks of the trade from the WFA and when i was watching kenny shults i noticed somthing about his toe sets. When he sets with his toe his leg stays perfectly straight. Mine on the other hand, comes up sideways, almost like an outside delay set but not that exagerated. I think some of the problem is i dont have lavers so there is no toe pad to catch the footbag on. This makes me correct it by turning my knee into the support and setting the bag sideways. Is this necessarily a bad thing and should i work on getting it corrected, or should i just do whats natural? Anyone else have this problem? thanks. Joey From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Feb 22 01:40:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA01999 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 01:40:13 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1964) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA01962 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 01:39:01 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17387 for ; Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:39:05 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.47] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA01959; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 01:38:59 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3249f26c.34ef7e50@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:41:53 -0800 To: DeZoderant@aol.com From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Toe Sets Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 5:24 PM -0800 2/21/98, DeZoderant@aol.com wrote: >This makes me correct it by turning my knee into the support and setting the >bag sideways. Is this necessarily a bad thing and should i work on getting it >corrected, or should i just do whats natural? Anyone else have this problem? >thanks. You should definitely try to fix that. It is somewhat natural to pull your leg off to the side, but that's not a particularly efficient way to do it. In other words, you have to teach yourself to stop doing that. (It's really hard to unlearn bad habits, believe me, I know, but it's worth it for you to skool hard to kill that particular one.) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 25 04:58:51 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA05687 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 04:57:38 GMT Received: from neon088@pacbell.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5625) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA05623 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 04:46:32 GMT Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA09918 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:46:37 -0800 Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-216-166.nhwd02.pacbell.net [206.170.216.166]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id UAA15134 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:46:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34F3A205.D3FD784C@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:45:57 -0800 From: Sam Colclough Organization: Scan Central - http://www.penny-lane.com/scancentral X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Shoes... Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------739995C47EF80E0CE3004918" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --------------739995C47EF80E0CE3004918 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey out there. I know a lot of discussion has been going on about which shoe is best for footbag. I thought that I should add my opinion (better late than never). Very recently Vans released a new type of shoe. They are called Queue, weird name! They are awesome! The laces are all on the inside of the shoe. They don't go outside at all. It's sort of hard to describe, but they are at like, every shoe store!. For me, they are the awesome footbag shoes. Of course, they do have a drawback (common, where is the perfect footbag shoe??), they are a little bit heavy, although they are lighter than most of the Vans line. I add foot support gel pads to all shoes I buy, they mold to your foot and absorb impact from the inside. They kick!! (no pun intended... really). Over all, the shoes will leave you tired if you are a wussy with low stamina OR you play for like 5 hours straight. Well, its not like they are iron balls or anything. Ack, just go check them out! They are great all purpose shoes with the gel inserts and they are perfectly shaped for footbag (another plus). Once again, they are Vans new Queue. Seriously, they are dope... oh btw, only $54.00 and that is brand spankin new. Just a thought from a 15 year old whose only thoughts are of bigger stereo equipment, girls, footbag, girls, girls, computers, girls, quake, girls and girls. Not necessarily in that order! L8r and thanx for reading my message! -- Dude is that a footbag in your pocket or are you just happy to see me? http://www.penny-lane.com/scancentral --------------739995C47EF80E0CE3004918 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey out there.  I know a lot of discussion has been going on about which shoe is best for footbag.  I thought that I should add my opinion (better late than never).  Very recently Vans released a new type of shoe.  They are called Queue, weird name!  They are awesome! The laces are all on the inside of the shoe. They don't go outside at all.  It's sort of hard to describe, but they are at like, every shoe store!.  For me, they are the awesome footbag shoes.  Of course, they do have a drawback (common, where is the perfect footbag shoe??), they are a little bit heavy, although they are lighter than most of the Vans line.  I add foot support gel pads to all shoes I buy, they mold to your foot and absorb impact from the inside.  They kick!! (no pun intended... really). Over all, the shoes will leave you tired if you are a wussy with low stamina OR you play for like 5 hours straight.  Well, its not like they are iron balls or anything.  Ack, just go check them out! They are great all purpose shoes with the gel inserts and they are perfectly shaped for footbag (another plus).  Once again, they are Vans new Queue.  Seriously, they are dope... oh btw, only $54.00 and that is brand spankin new.

Just a thought from a 15 year old whose only thoughts are of bigger stereo equipment, girls, footbag, girls, girls, computers, girls, quake, girls and girls.  Not necessarily in that order! L8r and thanx for reading my message!

--
Dude is that a footbag in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
http://www.penny-lane.com/scancentral --------------739995C47EF80E0CE3004918-- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 25 18:55:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA02003 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:54:44 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1732) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01730 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:27:47 GMT From: Nageylum@aol.com Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.34]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00329 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:27:48 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id OTTBa28887 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:36:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4650c2f9.34f45686@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:36:04 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] blury in-spinning mirage Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey, how do all, i was talking to some one can't remeber who at this time, and was wonder what the name for a blury in-spinning mirage, and what the addage would be, i believe Tuan Vu almost hit if he didn't hit in "Whredded Wheat." and i though it look really cool. Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 26 16:37:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00927 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:36:25 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (284) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00282 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:07:43 GMT Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA02649 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:07:37 -0800 Received: from rac7.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac7.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.147]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00104 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:37:14 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac7.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA09991 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:37:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:37:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802261437.JAA09991@rac7.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] miraging inspinning mirage Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey. i think josh asked about in-spinning mirage from a mirage set. a move that tuan almost hit. ithink he did hit that move at some point, and i believe he named it 'double leaning gyro' trying to make a play on words on a roll in the dice game popular among kickers, (pass the pigs!) 'double leaning jowler. i do think tuan was the only person to hit any such set concept move as a prefix to an add two or greater move, so he probably should be the on to name it, but peter irish thought of the same concept as a torque set in 1994, and called it bock set, named after Sam Adams Double Bock beer ( i think ). i don't thinkhe hit anything but a stall or a kick out of it at the time. i was there, but a bit dizzy just trying to hit torque. l8r- vince From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 26 18:40:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01696 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:40:33 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1600) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01598 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:12:11 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f91.hotmail.com [207.82.250.197]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA06357 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:12:07 -0800 Received: (qmail 6200 invoked by uid 0); 26 Feb 1998 18:12:02 -0000 Message-ID: <19980226181202.6199.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.50 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:12:02 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.50] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] miraging inspinning mirage Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:12:02 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "hey hey. I think josh asked about in-spinning mirage from a mirage set. a move that tuan almost hit. I think he did hit that move at some point, and I believe he named it 'double leaning gyro' trying to make a play on words on a roll in the dice game popular among kickers, (pass the pigs!) 'double leaning jowler." If I understand what you are describing, (this is terminology I'm kind of fuzzy on) this is blurry set, then gyro mirage spinning towards the side you set from (?). Is anyone doing anything else with this set? I've hit blurry set spinning osis before (barely) and I tried blurry set spinning butterfly. How about spinning the other way, i.e. blurry set spin away from the side you set from. I used to try this but never could figure out the foot position. Has any one tried it, does it have a concept name? (now dreaming of in-spinning baroque) Andrew McCargar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 26 21:04:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02895 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:04:24 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2529) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02527 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:13:28 GMT Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.34]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09473 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:13:29 -0800 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OZWEa04319 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:13:24 -0500 (EST) From: StinKyKiwi Message-ID: <7933f9e.34f5cce7@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:13:24 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] My sucky Carol bag Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I got my first carol bag yesterday...which has 6 colors!! It rocked...*but*, when I was breaking it in in study hall...part of a pent. disappeared!! I felt some beads run down into my hand.....anyone else have this prob. with a carol? I was just massaging it with my hands too! should I just send it back to her? I mean..it's only been a day! A very Sad, Matt Avery From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 26 21:55:17 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03203 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:55:17 GMT Received: from hill9361@uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2980) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02978 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:26:51 GMT Received: from hawk.csrv.uidaho.edu (hawk.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.119.142]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10979 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:26:47 -0800 Received: from raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.192.43]) by hawk.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_12836)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA02787; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:25:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA11182; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:25:56 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.csrv.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:25:55 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand X-Sender: hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu To: StinKyKiwi cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] My sucky Carol bag In-Reply-To: <7933f9e.34f5cce7@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I got my first carol bag yesterday...which has 6 colors!! It rocked...*but*, > when I was breaking it in in study hall...part of a pent. disappeared!! I felt > some beads run down into my hand.....anyone else have this prob. with a carol? > I was just massaging it with my hands too! should I just send it back to her? > I mean..it's only been a day! I have never had a Carol bag, but I have had a facile Juice that fell apart in several places within two hours. And I too was just massaging it. __________________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 27 02:42:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05424 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 02:42:09 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5393) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA05391 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 02:40:14 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17369 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:40:18 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA20882; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:40:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:40:03 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: Procrastinator the VIIIth cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] miraging inspinning mirage In-Reply-To: <199802261437.JAA09991@rac7.wam.umd.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Procrastinator the VIIIth wrote: > hey hey. > i think josh asked about in-spinning mirage from a mirage set. > a move that tuan almost hit. > ithink he did hit that move at some point, and i believe he named it > 'double leaning gyro' trying to make a play on words on a roll > in the dice game > popular among kickers, (pass the pigs!) 'double leaning jowler. > > i do think tuan was the only person to hit any such set concept move as > a prefix to an add two or greater move, so he probably should be the on to > name it, I have also hit miraging inspinning mirage but only once so far. In answer to the other question (I forget who wrote it..): What is the name of a miraging set then spinning away from the side you set from (gyro motion). I would have to say it is a leaning gyro X. A good move to try would be a leaning gyro mirage: clip > op inout dex > spin(back) > op inout dex > op toe. Still trying to get that one. See ya, Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 27 16:48:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00805 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:47:44 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (253) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00251 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:26:03 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f33.hotmail.com [207.82.250.44]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA26658 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:26:03 -0800 Received: (qmail 9713 invoked by uid 0); 27 Feb 1998 15:25:54 -0000 Message-ID: <19980227152554.9712.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.156 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:25:53 PST X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.156] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] miraging inspinning mirage Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:25:53 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Adrian wrote: >I would have to say it is a leaning gyro X. A good move to try >would be a leaning gyro mirage: clip > op inout dex > spin(back) > op >inout dex > op toe. Still trying to get that one. I've found that when you "lean" on a spinning move, you generally end up on your arse. I think "erect gyro mirage" is a better name because when we do anything spinning , gyrating, or in-spinning, it's best that we stay erect. In fact, while doing most moves, it's best to maintain our erection. DK ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 27 16:48:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00792 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:47:40 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (154) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00152 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:01:02 GMT Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26346 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:01:00 -0800 Received: from rac2.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac2.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.142]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA18774 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:00:59 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac2.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA11617 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:00:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:00:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802271500.KAA11617@rac2.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] terminology Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org can someone check me on this? a spin away from a clipper set, like a left foot clipper to a counterclockwise spin, is what is termed gyro. a spin going towards the clipper set, clockwise from left clipper, is termed in-spin. an in-spin with the set leg doing a butterfly dexterity into another move is called twin spin. an in-spin with a mirage dexterity ( non set leg ) immediately, before the spin, is called a leaning gyro? that's sort of confusing name wise. also called a bock set, though there may be a minor distinction in style. bock set looked like a torque set to something, leaning gyro looks wicked fast, but not much like anything as i recall. a halfway rotation on a gyro and then back again is a peek? a kenny move. a halfway rotation on a gyro to a duck with a back around back again, is a peek-ing duck. kenny gets all the credit for that one. a duck describes the action of the body moving sideways under the bag in one direction- say from a clipper, aperson ducks and moves towards that clipper to put their other clipper underneath the bag. a dive is a duck done by first moving to the other side of the bag and then moving back to the original relation to the bag. if clipper is start and end move, then it would be the same clipper for both. did anyone name miraging duck? i think ken and eric both hit this fugly thing. well, i'm tapped for now- oh wait- is scorpions tail gyro double over down? gyro barfly? either or? and is diver down diving down double over down, or spinning div-dow-dou-over-down? gotsta split. l8r- vince From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 27 17:25:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01170 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:25:28 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1119) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01117 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:24:39 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28839 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:24:40 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01113; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:24:15 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199802271500.KAA11617@rac2.wam.umd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:23:40 -0800 To: Procrastinator the VIIIth From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] terminology Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 7:00 AM -0800 2/27/98, Procrastinator the VIIIth wrote: >a spin away from a clipper set, like a left foot clipper to a >counterclockwise >spin, is what is termed gyro. >a spin going towards the clipper set, clockwise from left clipper, >is termed in-spin. My view is slightly different, but very similar: - a spin away into most moves is called "spinning", - a spin away with a dexterity with the setting foot is called "gyrating", - an spinning move done with the spin going the other way is the "in-spinning" version of the same me (but significantly harder by most people's reckoning). We haven't been good about talking about in-spinning and how it relates to "gyrating", but something tells me we just don't call it "gyrating" if it's in-spinning, even if the dexterity is with the setting foot. The point here is that whether or not we call something "spinning" versus "gyrating" isn't about the add-value, but about the prototype for the move, to help us visualize it. The "gyrating" name and concept (for visualization reasons) comes from the move "gyro" which is a spinning butterfly (same-side dexterity). While most gyrating moves have in-out dexterities, the prototypical move (gyro) is an out-in, but the direction of the dexterity is not the relevant component; it's the fact that you do a dexterity with the setting foot (usually without planting the setting foot) immediately following (but sometimes during) the spin away. These moves feel a lot like zooming moves, but the spin replaces the flick. (Sort of the same difference as between osis and that wierd behind-the-back wrap that only a few people do.) >a halfway rotation on a gyro and then back again is a peek? a kenny move. Yeah; that's a *rad* move. >a halfway rotation on a gyro to a duck with a back around back again, >is a peek-ing duck. kenny gets all the credit for that one. Yes, peek-ing duck. Definitely an awesome name and a sweeeeet move. Red Fred Husted was hitting that one for a while. >is scorpions tail gyro double over down? gyro barfly? either or? Scorpiontail is gyrating Kenny falling-on-his-ass. Oh, sorry, poor Kenny will *never* live that down (thanks, ESPN). But seriously, it's getting into the gray area of what's really the difference between barfly and double-over-down, 'cause when you spin, all bets are off. :-) But I think of Scorpiontail as gyrating down-double-down, since it's the same foot that sets and picks it up (is that right?). Then of course the ultimate move is Barraging Mobius -- gyrating barraging torque (i.e., mobius with a double-dexterity on the torque pick-up). Kenny says it's the hardest move on the planet; I disagree, but I can't hit it, so what do I know. :-) I don't know nothin' about the other ones you mentioned. Most of it sounds right to me, though. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 27 20:09:34 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02384 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:09:27 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1730) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01728 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:49:12 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f72.hotmail.com [207.82.250.158]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA30372 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:49:13 -0800 Received: (qmail 3299 invoked by uid 0); 27 Feb 1998 18:49:12 -0000 Message-ID: <19980227184912.3298.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.61 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:49:12 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.61] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] terminology Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:49:12 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve wrote, "Scorpiontail is gyrating Kenny falling-on-his-ass. Oh, sorry, poor Kenny will *never* live that down (thanks, ESPN)." Blasphemer!!!! "Then of course the ultimate move is Barraging Mobius -- gyrating barraging torque (i.e., mobius with a double-dexterity on the torque pick-up). Kenny says it's the hardest move on the planet; I disagree, but I can't hit it, so what do I know. :-)" I think Ahren can do this, I saw him almost hit it at worlds, but what do I know, I can't do it either. However there are so many difficult hittable moves it's hard to deside which we can call the hardest. My vote is for blurry revirse miraging tork. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 27 21:40:25 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02873 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:40:22 GMT Received: from klein@proscape.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2631) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02629 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:42:58 GMT Received: from proxyserv.proscape.com (mail.proscape.com [205.147.246.8]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA00117 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:43:00 -0800 Received: by proxyserv.proscape.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BD4395.C6777EB0@proxyserv.proscape.com>; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:38:39 -0500 Message-ID: From: Ethan Klein To: "'Andrew Feuerdrache'" Cc: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] crazy moves and dank weather Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:38:38 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andrew mentioned, "blurry revirse miraging tork"- isn't that a blurry flux? Sick, twisted, gnarled fantabulous ridensulosity! I always thought barraging blur would be phatty! Gorgeous, Radiant day outside (62 degrees, sunny, Friday) Just got an email from friends saying that they are not waiting for me (like usual) to play after work but are going to play on College Green, in the midst of sparkling cuties, gawking onlookers and SUNSHINE right now!!! Me - on my computer, dismayed, hurt, sorrowful, BUMMING!!!!! (now no one will play with me after work!!! AND I'm going to miss an awesome session!) Why must we work when it's nice out??? Especially on Fridays in the spring!!!!! This capitalistic/materialistic/extra-need based/ non RE-Creative society really brings me down, Man!!! Yes I am whining, and NO, it is not fair!!!!! A pouting Ethan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Feb 27 21:59:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03045 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:59:48 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2931) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02929 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:49:23 GMT Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.157]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01696 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:49:26 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id QTBCa16812; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:49:10 -0500 (EST) From: Nageylum Message-ID: <573bd6be.34f734d8@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:49:10 EST To: Klein@proscape.com, damocles_schwert@hotmail.com Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] crazy moves and dank weather Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 98-02-27 16:43:00 EST, Klein@proscape.com writes: << Why must we work when it's nice out??? Especially on Fridays in the spring!!!!! This capitalistic/materialistic/extra-need based/ non RE-Creative society really brings me down, Man!!! Yes I am whining, and NO, it is not fair!!!!! >> I have the perfect solution to this problem which is working for me very well. i know you're saying what is this fabulusly-stupendus idea??? simple don't work. i know not the answer you're hoping for, but one i'm to practice, but it's needless to say i'm in high school. Josh "The Leech(sounds like a name for a pro wrestler)" Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Feb 28 00:33:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA04510 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 00:33:27 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3593) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03591 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:54:14 GMT Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03214 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:54:17 -0800 Received: from [207.208.137.11] (d11.focal2.interaccess.com [207.208.137.11]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id QAA18940; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:53:55 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:53:55 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Procrastinator the VIIIth , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [freestyle] terminology Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Vince and Freestylers! At 10:00 AM 2/27/98, Procrastinator the VIIIth wrote: >a spin away from a clipper set, like a left foot clipper to a counterclockwise >spin, is what is termed gyro. Gyro was originally intended to be used only when the spin away from the clipper set required that the set leg does not plant. The definition has become looser, but does not include *every* spin away from set. Please note this. >a spin going towards the clipper set, clockwise from left clipper, >is termed in-spin. Not always. >an in-spin with the set leg doing a butterfly dexterity into another move >is called twin spin. Never heard of it. >a halfway rotation on a gyro and then back again is a peek? a kenny move. >a halfway rotation on a gyro to a duck with a back around back again, >is a peek-ing duck. kenny gets all the credit for that one. That is a fun one. >a dive is a duck done by first moving to the other side of the bag and then >moving back to the original relation to the bag. if clipper is start and >end move, then it would be the same clipper for both. Remember that the subtle difference between dive and duck does NOT constitute a unique move. Consensus from before was that not only is the dive NOT worth more adds, it is exactly the same move. So a ducking butterfly is identical to a diving butterfly (from same sides). So the player who, at worlds or western regionals, does a ducking mirage then a diving mirage (say, both on the right), would only get one unique move. It hasn't happened yet so no big deal, but maybe we could come to a consensus again. >did anyone name miraging duck? i think ken and eric both hit this fugly thing. I hit it too. No one gives me credit for it, but I was the first person to do ducks... I called it "Guillotine" but it didn't catch on. The very first move was "Guillotine Butterfly", then the Guillotine Mirage". The first year Eric did "Duck's" I actually hit the diving mirage before he did (at worlds) but again, no credit for it. Oh well, credit or not, the Duck and Dive concept is way cool. I hit peeking duck 5 times today (but mine might be "peeking dive".). Back to the point, I never named it either, just 'Ducking mirage'. Oh, I hit Ducking Paradox Mirage today too. Ducking. That's using your head. *The first real "head spinning" move* See ya! Scott D. Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Feb 28 20:38:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA01046 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:37:26 GMT Received: from lordomen@ihug.co.nz () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1397) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA01395 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:01:39 GMT Received: from cheech.ihug.co.nz (cheech.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA02087 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 06:01:41 -0800 Received: from omen (p10-tnt-ak-1.auck.ihug.co.nz [207.212.240.10]) by cheech.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA32414 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 03:01:25 +1300 Message-ID: <001a01bd4451$075829a0$0af0d4cf@omen> From: Damian Coventry To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] terminology Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 02:58:57 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >hittable moves it's hard to deside which we can call the hardest. My >vote is for blurry revirse miraging tork. come on! wot about blurry paradox nemesis? ( or is that just 'blurry nemesis' steve? ;] ) clip -> same out [dex][bod] -> op in [dex] -> same in [dex] -> op out [dex] -> same out [dex] -> op clip[xbd][del] ( that [bod] there is for the paradox ) so that would make it eight!!! hahaha ok, bout to send this now, someone unleash steve goldie now, he's free to maim this message... :) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Feb 28 22:05:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA01346 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:05:05 GMT Received: from jpenney@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1305) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA01303 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:54:56 GMT Received: from hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08218 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:54:58 -0800 Received: from [208.196.105.175] (nyc-ip-2-175.ziplink.net [208.196.105.175]) by hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (8.8.5/george96) with SMTP id QAA10568 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:59:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:59:11 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org From: jpenney@footbag.org (Big Fat Josh Penney) Subject: Re: [freestyle] terminology Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org this is slowly turning into the 'quest for the sickest moves' and I have something to put in (of course) : >come on! wot about blurry paradox nemesis? ( or is that just 'blurry >nemesis' steve? ;] ) > >clip -> same out [dex][bod] -> op in [dex] -> same in [dex] -> op out >[dex] -> same out [dex] -> op clip[xbd][del] > >ok, bout to send this now, someone unleash steve goldie now, he's free to >maim this message... :) i'm hip... that sounds like a diamond-like maneuver... here's Some ideas for slightly more plausible ones: Spinning ducking symposium [I'm gonna say S| from now on b|c it's shorter - like me] whirling swirl I know someone else thought of this'n - Paratoxic : S| whirling paradox drifter -I bet I can hit it before you can! In-spinning 'superfly' or for that matter, S| Scorpiontail Scrambled flying fusion or S| Double blur (barraging s|p@ mirage) Let's git down! Yow! JP Oh my god!! They Killed Kenny!!! You B@st@rds!!!!!