From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 1 00:18:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA01854 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 00:18:50 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1811) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA01809 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 00:16:12 GMT Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.155]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10076; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:16:15 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OOMEa02916; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:16:01 -0500 (EST) From: Nageylum Message-ID: <377e0e8b.34f8a8c3@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:16:01 EST To: jpenney@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] terminology Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 98-02-28 17:06:14 EST, jpenney@footbag.org writes: << this is slowly turning into the 'quest for the sickest moves' and I have something to put in (of course) : >> I too will throw my one cent in; a ducking symposium paradox whirl. this little one may not be as hard as some of josh's but i have a fun time trying it, and i manage to almost kick myself in the face, and people say footbag isn't dangerous. Josh C. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 1 04:19:46 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA02959 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 04:19:39 GMT Received: from jsbx@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2913) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA02911 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 04:13:18 GMT Received: from imo22.mail.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.150]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13290 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:13:23 -0800 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OVMBa09339 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:13:17 -0500 (EST) From: JSBX Message-ID: <6973b1c8.34f8e05f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:13:17 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] full contact Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey kickers! Josh Childs mentioned some move he tries to nail that results is him almost kicking himself in the face, and then said that most people think footbag isn't dangerous. Aside from the standard fare of shin splints and back pains, here is a List of injuries i have seen/experienced: *kicked in the neck by a friend when I tried neck stalling and he tried kicking *seen a guy trying to pendulum kick someone behind him *me. atom smasher. locked legs. mid air. kissing pavement. *some of my friends have been kicked out of the air by overzealous kickers while trying to eclipse *my rakes are still inconsistent, but whenever one 6 foot friend of mine is across from me in a circle, my rakes nail him tween the eyes every time. It's a skill. *when doing multiple pendulums, my later ones (ok ok, the third one, once the fourth) are not as well placed or i don't have the proper momentum, so i overcompensate and have felt the sole of my right laver firmly against the back of my head. Only once was it strong enough to hurt. the other times it just scared me. But hey, freestylers are resilient. Rock the catskills! keN From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 2 08:44:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA00193 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:43:35 GMT Received: from jsbx@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2725) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA02723 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:49:55 GMT Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31435 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:50:00 -0800 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OBNZa09366 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:48:21 -0500 (EST) From: JSBX Message-ID: <31811c5a.34fa3a17@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:48:21 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] freestyle: pain Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey kickers! Josh Childs mentioned some move he tries to nail that results in him almost kicking himself in the face, and then said that most people think footbag isn't dangerous. Aside from the standard fare of shin splints and back pains, here is a List of injuries i have seen/experienced: *kicked in the neck by a friend when I tried neck stalling and he tried kicking *seen a guy trying to pendulum kick someone behind him *me. atom smasher. locked legs. mid air. kissing pavement. *some of my friends have been kicked out of the air by overzealous kickers while trying to eclipse *my rakes are still inconsistent, but whenever one 6 foot friend of mine is across from me in a circle, my rakes nail him tween the eyes every time. It's a skill. *when doing multiple pendulums, my later ones (ok ok, the third one, once the fourth) are not as well placed or i don't have the proper momentum, so i overcompensate and have felt the sole of my right laver firmly against the back of my head. Only once was it strong enough to hurt. the other times it just scared me. But hey, freestylers are resilient. Rock the catskills! keN From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 2 16:37:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00528 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:35:55 GMT Received: from schr4160@tao.sou.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (358) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA00356 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:27:52 GMT Received: from TAO.sou.edu (Tao.sou.edu [140.211.92.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA03060 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:27:53 -0800 Received: from 206.151.159.15 (ip13.sou.mind.net [206.151.159.15]) by TAO.sou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA15212 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:31:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34FA1B6E.4E81@tao.sou.edu> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 02:37:34 +0000 From: "schrodt, forest" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] sick tricks Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. This is my idea for a sick trick. I have never seen anyone try to do anything quite like it and I am not sure exactly how to explain it but here goes my best try. blurry set from left foot, right side > inspin quickly to the right and do a right footed dino or blender to catch the bag. I have allmost done this move from a pixie set instead of the blurry set so I know it is possible. right foot pixie(setting the bag on the left side of the body)> spin sharply right> catch bag into a right foot dino. 6 add move I call the move a "dino soar" :) It is allways fun to hear about new tricks and to try and come up with new huge tricks.Let me know what you think. Forest From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 2 16:38:27 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00554 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:38:27 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (498) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00496 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:35:41 GMT Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA07265 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:35:41 -0800 Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac9.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.149]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA04859 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:35:39 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA22752 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:35:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:35:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199803021635.LAA22752@rac9.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] move consensus Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org wow. kind of seems like there isn't a consensus of move definitions. with regards to history, i always thought the crucial aspect, to contradict steve's statements that defintively the crucial aspect of the gyro is which leg does the dexterity, of the gyro was the retrograde motion required by the desterity. that according to the original gyro concept, a mobius was a spinning torque, not a gyro, because there was no change in spin direction in the move. as there is in gyro-butterfly, or 'original gyro.' but history is bunk, as I have learned from the evolution of terminology. My apologies for any offense, Scott, if by not going into the history of the duck and dve that it seemed like I disrespected their originator. I did knwo the reality- my mentioning Eric and Kenny were due to their relating to the particular moves I asked about, moves that I personally have only seen them hit. The move i was wondiering if there was a name for was the notion of a mirage dexterity preceeding a duck within a move. Like a mirage-duck set concept. As for dives and ducks not being unique, i woul dsay that this is the case from the footbags point of view, just don't tell that to my neck when i m doing the moves. to me the notion is the same as paradox mirage versus regular mirage- a dive has a much smaller window and requires a shift in body momentum for the head's dexterity, which i believe are the same criteria for the paradox add. I will say i don't think dive deserves an extra add over regular duck, but to me a dive is very much a unique move from a duck headed in the same direction. no pun intended, though happily found. looks like i cam to work today with a can opener... l8r- vince From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 2 18:35:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01294 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:35:12 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1181) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01179 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:18:09 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.126]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09966 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:18:09 -0800 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA212022683; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:18:03 -0600 Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:18:03 -0600 (CST) From: Sean Wingert To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #343 In-Reply-To: <199803012350.XAA01591@eniac.yak.net.taz> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Nageylum wrote: > Ducking Paradox Symposium Whirl This is a great move, and Nagey is right, it isn't as hard as it seems. I've hit it two or three times on my right side (bailing to osis next) only, but wouldn't infinity DPSW's be cool? :-) Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 2 20:23:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02173 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:23:29 GMT Received: from jpenney@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2013) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02011 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 19:50:25 GMT Received: from hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12343 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:50:25 -0800 Received: from sara (nyc-ny73-59.ix.netcom.com [209.109.227.187]) by hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (8.8.5/george96) with SMTP id OAA11819 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:54:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980228145506.007ac7a0@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> X-Sender: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:55:06 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Big Fat Josh Penney Subject: Re: [freestyle] move consensus In-Reply-To: <199803021635.LAA22752@rac9.wam.umd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:35 AM 3/2/98 -0500, you wrote: >The move i was wondiering if there was a name for was the notion of a >mirage dexterity preceeding a duck within a move. Like a mirage-duck set >concept. Seen Eric do it. He calls blurry-ducking-butterfly a "Ripped Warrior". I myself have been working on reverse miraging, diving eclipse from toe. Well, I've been thinking about it. >As for dives and ducks not being unique, just don't tell that to my neck when >i'm doing the moves. Hear, hear. >to me the notion is the same as paradox mirage versus regular mirage- >a dive has a much smaller window and requires a shift in body momentum >for the head's dexterity, which i believe are the same criteria for the >paradox add. I will say i don't think dive deserves an extra add over >regular duck, but to me a dive is very much a unique move from a duck headed in >the same direction. no pun intended, though happily found. I feel similarly, butnot for the same reason. I don't think it's harder to duck vs. dive in regards to windows/timing but I do feel they are different only because they feel really differnt, like mirage against reverse mirage. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 2 20:23:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02186 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:23:31 GMT Received: from jsbx@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2074) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02072 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:06:02 GMT Received: from imo21.mail.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.148]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12680 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:06:04 -0800 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OWORa01472 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:05:37 -0500 (EST) From: JSBX Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:05:37 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] paradox Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey guys! Th recent terminology thread has been helpful. I have a question about paradox, can you plant the setting leg before doing the dex? Or does that not make it paradox? Also, after reading all the ducking and diving stuff, i tried my first ducks today and hit ducking butterfly stall a bunch of times. diving is way harder for me, i jsut set, go to the other side and watch the bag fall as i get confused. Oh well, one day I will hopefully laugh about it as I hit peek-ing duck. KeN! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 2 21:45:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02817 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 21:45:26 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2566) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02564 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 21:18:31 GMT Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA14409; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:18:32 -0800 Received: from [207.208.137.234] (d104.focal2.interaccess.com [207.208.137.104]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id PAA22744; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:18:07 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:18:07 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Big Fat Josh Penney , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [freestyle] move consensus Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Josh and Freestylers! >>to me the notion is the same as paradox mirage versus regular mirage- >>a dive has a much smaller window and requires a shift in body momentum >>for the head's dexterity, which i believe are the same criteria for the >>paradox add. I will say i don't think dive deserves an extra add over >>regular duck, but to me a dive is very much a unique move from a duck >headed in >>the same direction. no pun intended, though happily found. > >I feel similarly, butnot for the same reason. I don't think it's harder to >duck vs. dive in regards to windows/timing but I do feel they are different >only because they feel really differnt, like mirage against reverse mirage. The reason for the "no difference" on Dive vs. Duck moves is mostly for the same reason as the "no difference" on upper body unusual surfaces (i.e. your face is one unusual surface, not divisible by "L Temple" ,'R temple', 'chin', 'nose', etc...) which was done because of the name of the sport. "Foot"bag, not "upper body" bag. Hence the different directions of the "upper body dexterity" is seen as the same. That's how I remember it. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 2 22:50:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03365 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:50:20 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3037) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03035 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:15:04 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f56.hotmail.com [207.82.250.142]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA15884 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:15:01 -0800 Received: (qmail 24802 invoked by uid 0); 2 Mar 1998 22:14:38 -0000 Message-ID: <19980302221438.24801.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.156 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Mar 1998 14:14:37 PST X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.156] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] duck, duck, goose Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 14:14:37 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org For those who think dives are harder than ducks: Certainly there is more head movement in dives than ducks, but diving allows you to maintain eye contact much longer than ducks. Ducking requires almost 100% peripheral vision, while diving gives you a nice full view of the bag for half the move. Neither is harder than the other, just different. Dan Kramer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 3 07:16:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA06692 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 07:16:16 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3502) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03500 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 23:11:23 GMT Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16900 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:11:25 -0800 Received: from [207.208.137.234] (d104.focal2.interaccess.com [207.208.137.104]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id RAA18914; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:11:00 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:11:00 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Daniel Kramer" , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [freestyle] duck, duck, goose Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! >For those who think dives are harder than ducks: > >Certainly there is more head movement in dives than ducks, but diving >allows you to maintain eye contact much longer than ducks. Ducking >requires almost 100% peripheral vision, while diving gives you a nice >full view of the bag for half the move. Neither is harder than the >other, just different. ... Just not different enough (and involving enough of the legs) to be rewarded "unique move" status. See yA! Scott. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 3 07:16:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA06679 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 07:16:13 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3438) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03436 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 23:00:45 GMT Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.40]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16820; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:00:47 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OISQa28606; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:59:01 -0500 (EST) From: Nageylum Message-ID: <64ba6437.34fb39b7@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:59:01 EST To: jpenney@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] move consensus Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey, with all the talk about dex befor ducks/dives, i've been working on this little ditty, and hit a few times, from what i make it's a pixie diving butterfly, feels way cool when i hit it, but i tend to wack the bag with my face some times due to lack of set height. that one cent i save, i gave away Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 3 07:18:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA06733 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 07:18:07 GMT Received: from jpenney@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4604) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04602 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 01:13:23 GMT Received: from hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17599 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:13:26 -0800 Received: from sara (nyc-ny65-22.ix.netcom.com [209.109.224.214]) by hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (8.8.5/george96) with SMTP id UAA03503 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:17:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980228201628.007abeb0@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> X-Sender: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:16:28 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Big Fat Josh Penney Subject: Re: [freestyle] move consensus In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I sed: >>I don't think it's harder to >>duck vs. dive in regards to windows/timing but I do feel they are different >>only because they feel really differnt, like mirage against reverse mirage. Scott sed: >The reason for the "no difference" on Dive vs. Duck moves is mostly for the >same reason as the "no difference" on upper body unusual surfaces (i.e. >your face is one unusual surface, not divisible by "L Temple" ,'R temple', >'chin', 'nose', etc...) which was done because of the name of the sport. >"Foot"bag, not "upper body" bag. Hence the different directions of the >"upper body dexterity" is seen as the same. That doesn't quite 'cut it' for me. From what you said, Scott, I could infer that any thing not directly involved between feet and footbag is practically invalid; is this what you mean? If, in competition, I saw someone delay a bag on their chin, *and* I were counting adds or delays or whatever it is 'head stall' falls under then we might find some discrepancy on my card; that's gotta be difficult as anything.. I'm not saying this is anything like kicking tha bag up and backflipping or cartwheeling or singing a little song or screaming the word "Boom!" at the judges and scaring the beejezus out of the judges. I maintain that stalling on your chin and head (or duck vs.dive as tha case may be) are difficult, individually distinct moves. Now, you might not put that in your little rulebook but that's how I feel. JP ps. As far as I know, there's only one guy out there who plays "Footbag".. the rest of us are playing "Feetbag", and the way freestyle is being played now it should *really* be called "Feetandlegsbag". then again, I don't know any "Basesball" or "Basketsball" players so what do I know. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 3 16:00:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00502 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 15:59:41 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7161) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA07159 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:05:29 GMT Received: from stick.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA03135 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 01:05:35 -0800 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA14173 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 03:05:56 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 03:05:54 -0600 (CST) From: Eric Burgess To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] FINALLY!! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org after months of workin' it, i finally hit paradox atom smasher! i've never hit it before, and all the sudden i hit it and played out guiltlessly...and next time i got the bag i did the exact same thing :) haven't hit it that 3rd time yet, but now i know it works...now i just need to learn the regular version! a very happy eric burgess From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 3 16:00:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00515 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 15:59:44 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (280) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00278 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 15:20:03 GMT Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA06235 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 07:20:01 -0800 Received: from rac10.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac10.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.150]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA26443 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:19:56 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac10.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA16677 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:19:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:19:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199803031519.KAA16677@rac10.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] dives vs ducks, and paradox Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org someone asked if planting during execution of a paradox eliminates the paradox add. t most people it does, except in the instances where the move is a dexterity done in paradox and symposium style. the reasoning relates to the notion that an add is given for paradox, and any justification for the greater difficulty in the add ratio usually involves shifts of body momentum, which is vastly easier with a plant. with a plant the body momentum can be adjusted by simply turning the body. i'm guessing that the IFAB decision on ducks and dives is that there are precisely two such unique moves total- a head under bag moving left, and a head under bag moving right. so a dive on the left is the same thing as a duck to the right. relating this to dexterities of the legs, there are four unique around the worlds that end on a toe stall. each direction performed by each leg. so the argument of the on-unique duck versus dive is actually a result of the notion, er, reality, that everyone has only one neck and head to duck with. of course the actual execution of a duck or dive is more dependent on the' foot motion and weight distribution on each side of the body than the actual motion of the head. so from the standpoint of feet, unlike upper body delays, ducks and dives could be seen as unique moves per body side. where a dive on the left i diffferent from a dive on the right, and are each differnet from each of the unique ducks. of course, within the context of unique moves, this is really unnecessary- a move is unique if any add component is different, so it's simple enough to just end a ducking move on a different surface to make a unique move. having on ly two possible unique duck-like moves makes for a greater challenge for the creation of unique moves. the question i would like answered ishow are ducks and dives viewed on the body cards? and weren't these moves also called headphones at the 95 xmas jam? or was it 94? later- vince From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 4 22:07:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03262 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 22:05:25 GMT Received: from kaplanb@mscd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2307) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02305 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 20:25:31 GMT Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA05991 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:25:33 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-9 #24550) with SMTP id <0EPB00G019Z87F@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:23:32 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 13:23:32 -0700 (MST) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] Name that trick! To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What do you call a double around the world, from a toe set, into an osis? I hit it last week and I'm getting it fairly regularly, though not as controlled as I'd like, and it would be nice to have something to call it by. Also, how many adds would it be? Is a blender 3 or 4 adds and does paradoxing it only add 1 more? A friend and I were arguing over torque adds as well. He said 3, I said 4, which witch is which. Thanky kindly, Brad. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 5 07:10:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA07076 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 07:10:18 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7017) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA07015 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 07:01:14 GMT Received: from stick.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17981 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 23:01:19 -0800 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA21560; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 01:01:29 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 01:01:28 -0600 (CST) From: Eric Burgess To: KAPLAN BRADLEY M cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Name that trick! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i think the first trick you describe is a double-pixie osis. sounds like 5 adds to me. blender is definitely 4 adds (dex, spin, xbod, del) and the paradox version is 5. torque is the same 4 adds as blender. eric On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, KAPLAN BRADLEY M wrote: > What do you call a double around the world, from a toe set, into an > osis? I hit it last week and I'm getting it fairly regularly, though not > as controlled as I'd like, and it would be nice to have something to call > it by. Also, how many adds would it be? > Is a blender 3 or 4 adds and does paradoxing it only add 1 more? A > friend and I were arguing over torque adds as well. He said 3, I said 4, > which witch is which. > > Thanky kindly, > Brad. > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 5 16:28:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00561 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:26:58 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (393) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00391 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:54:17 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f74.hotmail.com [207.82.250.180]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA24271 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 07:54:17 -0800 Received: (qmail 13424 invoked by uid 0); 5 Mar 1998 15:54:17 -0000 Message-ID: <19980305155417.13423.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.50 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 05 Mar 1998 07:54:16 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.50] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Name that trick! Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 07:54:16 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "What do you call a double around the world, from a toe set, into an osis? I hit it last week and I'm getting it fairly regularly, though not as controlled as I'd like, and it would be nice to have something to call it by. Also, how many adds would it be? Is a blender 3 or 4 adds and does paradoxing it only add 1 more? A friend and I were arguing over torque adds as well. He said 3, I said 4, which witch is which. Thanky kindly, Brad." Blender 4, paridox blender 5, torque 4. Double around the world into an osis, outside in same osis is Ocean I beileve (4 adds). Inside out double A-T-W to same osis I guess would be double blender (5 I think, it deffinatly deserves it). Inside out double A-T-W opp osis would be double pixi osis (5), and outside in double A-T-W opp osis would be too sick to think about, although I've almost hit it before. That would be like double flux, kind of, any one have a name for it? BTW the add values of common moves (blender, torque) you can usually find in the on line move list. Andrew McCargar, ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 5 17:38:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01030 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:38:17 GMT Received: from 00201887@bigred.unl.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (940) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00938 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:36:25 GMT Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26663 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:36:25 -0800 Received: (from 00201887@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19105; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:35:05 -0600 (CST) From: Theron A Troxel <00201887@bigred.unl.edu> Message-Id: <199803051735.LAA19105@bigred.unl.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Name that trick! To: eric@netcomi.com (Eric Burgess) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:35:03 -0600 (CST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: from "Eric Burgess" at Mar 5, 98 01:01:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > > > What do you call a double around the world, from a toe set, into an > > osis? I hit it last week and I'm getting it fairly regularly, though not > > as controlled as I'd like, and it would be nice to have something to call > > it by. Also, how many adds would it be? > > Is a blender 3 or 4 adds and does paradoxing it only add 1 more? A > > friend and I were arguing over torque adds as well. He said 3, I said 4, > > which witch is which. > > > Isn't a double around the world to an osis a barroque??? -- --------------------------- @ Theron Troxel \_|_/ UNLFC President | o 00201887@bigred.unl.edu /_\_ http://www.unl.edu/crec/SC/Footbag \ ------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 5 20:00:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01848 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 19:59:59 GMT Received: from hill9361@uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1793) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01791 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 19:56:01 GMT Received: from eagle.csrv.uidaho.edu (eagle.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.119.141]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29685 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:56:02 -0800 Received: from raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.192.43]) by eagle.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_12836)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA29442; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:55:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA03503; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:55:53 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.csrv.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:55:52 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand X-Sender: hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu To: Theron A Troxel <00201887@bigred.unl.edu> cc: Eric Burgess , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Name that trick! In-Reply-To: <199803051735.LAA19105@bigred.unl.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Isn't a double around the world to an osis a barroque??? It is if you do it like a torque (using the opposite leg for the osis). __________________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 6 18:41:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01781 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:40:38 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1742) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01740 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:37:52 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f47.hotmail.com [207.82.250.58]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA19190 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:37:44 -0800 Received: (qmail 19231 invoked by uid 0); 6 Mar 1998 18:37:43 -0000 Message-ID: <19980306183743.19230.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.36 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 06 Mar 1998 10:37:42 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.36] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Name that trick! Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 10:37:42 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Isn't a double around the world to an osis a barroque??? "It is if you do it like a torque (using the opposite leg for the osis)." I beiveve that the barroque concept requires a double miraje (in to out dex) to an osis, just like a tork is a miraje to an osis. A double A-T-W (in to out) to opp osis is double pixi osis. On a totally unrelated note, I acually find the notation (clip->opp in[dex]...) easier to understand than peoples discriptions most of the time. However I'm not always sure how to put a move into notation, is there a good on line instruction corse? Andrew McCargar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 6 18:48:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01899 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:48:35 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1858) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01856 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:47:20 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19451 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:47:20 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.73] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01853; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:47:04 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980306183743.19230.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:46:58 -0800 To: "Andrew Feuerdrache" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Talk the Talk (was "Name that trick!") Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andrew McCargar wrote: > On a totally unrelated note, I acually find the notation (clip->opp >in[dex]...) easier to understand than peoples discriptions most of the >time. However I'm not always sure how to put a move into notation, is >there a good on line instruction corse? Here's my 5-minute tutorial. I think it's at least a good starting point. If people have complaints about the system we're using (below), please feel free to suggest ways to improve it... It was originally proposed by Ben Job, who was a computer science student at the University of Colorado. I don't know if he's still on the list; his e-mail recently started bouncing. If you've rejoined, Ben, please let us know!... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Steve's 5-minute tutorial on Job's notation for e-mail freestyle talk: -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is "Blur" in Ben Job's notation, as a point of reference for the rest of the tutorial: clip > op in dex > op in dex > op toe (1) Ben Job realized (and it wasn't so obvious before, believe it or not) that moves basically start with one of two sets: either a toe or a clipper, so each move in his notation is "clip >" or "toe >" meaning "clipper set into" or "toe set into"; and moves basically end with one of two contacts (toe or clipper). So in the case of Blur, the move usually starts with a set out of a clipper delay and ends with a toe.. Hence: "clip > ... > ... toe". (2) The ">" can be read as "into" or "followed by", but is a special symbol because if you say "into" or "followed by" people aren't sure if you mean there's a contact in between or not. The ">" expressly means "without contacting the bag between the things on either side of the > symbol". So when we use ">" we are never talking about "strings" of moves; only about "components" that go into the moves. Hence I tend to refer to each thing after a ">" but before the next ">" as a "component". (3) Ben further noticed that in a huge percentage of the moves (and all of the basic ones), you can easily describe a move in terms of the dexterities involved -- i.e., whether a leg goes "in-out" (mirage-style) around/over the bag, or "out-in" (butterfly-style, reverse-mirage style). To avoid verbosity, these are shortened to just "in" for "in-out" and "out" for "out-in". And the word "dexterity" is shortened to "dex". So in the case of Blur, the notation would give us "... in dex > ... in dex ..." to represent that there are two sequential in-out dexterities in the move. For this tutorial, let's ignore moves like "pogo" and "symposium" and other moves where plants and spins (gyrating, in-spinning, etc.) are significant. They *are* handled by the notation, but it's best to understand the BASIC form of the notation before getting into that stuff, so I'll leave it for another tutorial. (Some of that notation is also open to debate as to whether or not it covers every case.) (4) The only other confusion might be "opposite" versus "same". We decided that, to avoid having to write a move description twice, once for the left side and one for the right, and since people aren't always in agreement about which side is which (don't ask), everything would be "relative". What I mean by "relative" is, when we say "opposite" ("op"), we mean "opposite to the leg/foot referred to just before the ">", and when we say "same", we mean "same as the leg/foot referred to just before the ">". So Blur set from either clipper would be: clip > op in dex > op in dex > op toe (The non-setting foot does the first in-out dexterity; the foot that didn't do that dexterity then does another in-out dexterity; and you catch the bag on the toe of the foot that didn't just do that final dexterity.) (5) Why do we use "relative" meanings for "op" and "same", and not use them to refer to "opposite of setting foot" or "same as setting foot"? The answer is, it really doesn't make a big difference which way we use them, but we have to be consistent and agree to a particular meaning, and most people have accepted the convention in (4) above. I personally think the one we're using now is more sensible, and if you want to spent 1 more minute, read this reasoning. Otherwise, skip it and you're done with the tutorial. Reasoning: if we write everything relative to the setting foot, it confuses the issue for variations on moves (such as "paradox" or "gyrating") where the components are exactly the same, but the set is different. So we (I?) prefer to be able to see the similarity in two moves by comparing their inner components without having to go and figure out which leg is which. If everything is relative ("opposite of or same as leg referred to in the previous component") then things are generally simpler to cut and paste in e-mail. :-) NOTE: Moves can start and end with other surfaces than toes and clippers, including insides (used like toes), dragons (used like clippers), and soles (used either way depending on whether they're cross-body or not), but the description would otherwise be identical. So a move could be "inside > ... > dragon" if it started with an inside set and ended in a dragon, for example. But the key is, regardless of which surface you use, all the stuff in the middle (after the set and before the pick-up) is the same. But let's ignore those cases for the sake of understanding the basic notation. The terms at the beginning and end of the move description are really the least interesting (especially since most of us agree the set isn't really part of the move, again not wanting to open a can of worms onto the great paradox debate :-)). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- End of Tutorial -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 6 22:31:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03553 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 22:31:28 GMT Received: from ethanesmay@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3110) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA03108 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 21:01:38 GMT Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.156]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22204 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 13:01:40 -0800 Received: from ETHANesmay@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id ORNTa23000 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:01:32 -0500 (EST) From: ETHANesmay Message-ID: <8daac1eb.3500642e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:01:32 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] bags-??? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i need a better dag. can the good ones be found in a store if not how do i get a good one. what i have in mind is something like the 26pice one or just ong better than my magic hach any input is wellcome ETHAN From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 9 21:26:22 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03299 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:24:52 GMT Received: from kaplanb@mscd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2862) Received: from Market.NET ([140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02860 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:18:20 GMT Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA22768 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:17:46 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-9 #24550) with SMTP id <0EPK00O01IYJT3@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:15:55 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 13:15:55 -0700 (MST) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] canvas cut To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What is special about cutting out the canvas from the Lavers? Does it make the shoe more flexible? Does it make that big a difference when playing? I know this was talked about weeks ago but I missed the whole discussion. Also, does anyone know how I can get a Carol bag? And where do I get a copy of Shredded Wheat? Brad From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 10 01:07:12 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04738 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:07:05 GMT Received: from jpenney@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4636) Received: from Market.NET ([140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA04634 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:59:02 GMT Received: from hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA26660 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:58:29 -0800 Received: from sara (nyc-ny76-17.ix.netcom.com [209.109.228.145]) by hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (8.8.5/george96) with SMTP id UAA26308 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:02:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980307200317.007aacd0@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> X-Sender: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 20:03:17 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Big Fat Josh Penney Subject: Re: [freestyle] canvas In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 01:15 PM 3/9/98 -0700, you wrote: > What is special about cutting out the canvas from the Lavers? Does >it make the shoe more flexible? Increases sensitivity to the footbag - makes your movements more accurate. >Does it make that big a difference when playing? >And where do I get a copy of Shredded Wheat? Nebraksa. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 12 16:58:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00846 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:57:12 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6250) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA06248 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:24:23 GMT Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.157]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA07817 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 04:24:32 -0800 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id ONTPa21408 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:24:24 -0500 (EST) From: StinKyKiwi Message-ID: <36797691.3507d3fa@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:24:24 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] whirl Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey, I've been kicking for about 3 months now, and I've been hitting a lot of 3 add moves;however, I just haven't hit the whirl. anyone have any suggestions? streches? anything that would make it a little easier. Most of it is probably timing I know, but if you can tell me anything else, I'd appreciate it. take it easy, Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 12 22:23:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03995 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:23:02 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3786) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03784 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:07:09 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17406 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:07:11 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA26377; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:07:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:07:06 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: StinKyKiwi cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] whirl In-Reply-To: <36797691.3507d3fa@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, StinKyKiwi wrote: > I've been kicking for about 3 months now, and I've been hitting a lot of 3 add > moves;however, I just haven't hit the whirl. anyone have any suggestions? > streches? anything that would make it a little easier. Most of it is probably > timing I know, but if you can tell me anything else, I'd appreciate it. Make sure, before you try whirl, that you have all the basics to associate with that move. Some moves to drill are clipper to same side clipper(make sure you can do at least 10-15 in a row), pick-up (from clipper), and same side butterflies. Anyway, some tips for whirl are to point your toe as you start the dex (this makes it faster) and don't lean over to the opposite side, stay over the bag. For me, it seems a lot easier if I point my toe down in the middle of the dex. Also, try the motion without the bag as well. It really helps later for stuff like paradox whirl and barflies. Hope that helps, Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 13 06:33:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA07566 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 06:33:07 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7325) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA07323 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 05:39:43 GMT Received: from stick.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23977 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:39:48 -0800 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA05817; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 23:40:03 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 23:40:03 -0600 (CST) From: Eric Burgess To: StinKyKiwi cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] whirl In-Reply-To: <36797691.3507d3fa@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, StinKyKiwi wrote: > I've been kicking for about 3 months now, and I've been hitting a lot of 3 add > moves;however, I just haven't hit the whirl. anyone have any suggestions? > streches? anything that would make it a little easier. Most of it is probably > timing I know, but if you can tell me anything else, I'd appreciate it. whirl is a move that i tried unsuccessfully for the longest time, with no luck. i finally got fed up and found the smoothest whirl i could (steve kramer at the beginning of 96 shred), stood in front of the tv, and just practiced that motion over and over and over. i think my problem was that my leg was going "up-down" instead of "around". once i started making a conscious effort to do a very circular whirl, i started landing it. hope it helps! and no matter what move you're schooling, just remember...keep trying, and you WILL hit it! eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 14 19:10:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01069 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 19:08:30 GMT Received: from zogg13@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1038) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01036 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 19:06:21 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f4.hotmail.com [207.82.250.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA16689 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 11:06:23 -0800 Received: (qmail 21507 invoked by uid 0); 14 Mar 1998 19:06:21 -0000 Message-ID: <19980314190621.21506.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.72.213.86 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 11:06:21 PST X-Originating-IP: [166.72.213.86] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] canvas cut Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 14:06:21 EST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yes it does. Cuting out the canvas makes it more soft for stalls, and you can "feel" the bag easier on your foot. IF you didn't know you don't have to cut out the canvas on the outside of the shoe. That side is very flat for stalling. Some neat-o saying I can't think of, Steve Miskiewicz > What is special about cutting out the canvas from the Lavers? Does >it make the shoe more flexible? Does it make that big a difference when >playing? > I know this was talked about weeks ago but I missed the whole >discussion. > Also, does anyone know how I can get a Carol bag? And where do I get >a copy of Shredded Wheat? > > Brad > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 15 03:18:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA02776 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 03:17:01 GMT Received: from shredstein@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2735) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA02733 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 03:11:49 GMT Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.152]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA21626 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 19:11:54 -0800 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OMVCa23134 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 22:11:50 -0500 (EST) From: ShReDStEiN Message-ID: <125013a3.350b46f8@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 22:11:50 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Lets Liven this list up... I've got a question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok guys, I've been shredding for months on end and I stil can't hit barfly the way I want? ANy tips suggestions... I'm up up for whatever help you can give me. Plus just wanted someone to explain to me what a "blurier" was, I can't quite visualize it, someone told me and I forgot. Finally, I give props to Ethan Klein, I "love" your footbag writings... especially that poem you wrote way back when. Anyhow, I hope to see some of you at the SO Cal Footbag Championships which our club (OOPS) is holding in April. God bless Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 15 17:18:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00471 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 17:09:50 GMT Received: from jpenney@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (354) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00352 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 16:34:38 GMT Received: from hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28455 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 08:34:33 -0800 Received: from sara (nyc-ny67-06.ix.netcom.com [209.109.225.134]) by hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (8.8.5/george96) with SMTP id LAA03034 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:38:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980315113923.007afca0@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> X-Sender: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:39:23 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Big Fat Josh Penney Subject: [freestyle] Re: He's got a question In-Reply-To: <125013a3.350b46f8@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:11 PM 3/14/98 EST, you wrote: >I stil can't hit barfly the way I want? Keep plugging at it. Watch someone better than you. Emulate. Try varying the set. >explain to me what a "blurier" was, I can't quite visualize it, someone told me and I forgot. Not really sure.. 'Blurry' means blurry whirl, and 'blurriest' is blurry barfly... Oh, wait. Now I remember. Blurrier is a stepping double down, like a homesick (or magnetized) blurriest: clip > op in > same out > same out > op clip >I give props to Ethan Klein. Hear, hear. Tie him to a chair and make him write for Footbag World. Then again, they might just take the initiative and 'yoink!' it; that wouldn't be the first time. UH! JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 16 18:32:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01124 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:31:24 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1058) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01056 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:22:08 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f24.hotmail.com [207.82.250.35]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA15781 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:22:09 -0800 Received: (qmail 20130 invoked by uid 0); 16 Mar 1998 18:22:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19980316182208.20128.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.14.188 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:22:07 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.14.188] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Lets Liven this list up... I've got a question Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:22:07 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "Ok guys, I've been shredding for months on end and I stil can't hit barfly the way I want? ANy tips suggestions... I'm up up for whatever help you can give me." I'm not sure if this will help or not but I found that doing bluriest was a good practice for barflys. Sound kind of backwards? Well mabye it is. But if you think about it when you do barfly you have to turn into and reach for the bag because it's in front of your body, giving you narrow window to do the dextarities, for bluriest the bag is right under your body where you have the widest range of motion, all you have to be is fast. The point being, basically what ever related tricks you can do are good practice, paridon, double over down, doun double down, down diver down, scorpiions tail, what ever. Of cource I also learned eggbeaters from a paridox set first and reverce miraging paridox drifter befor drifter so mabye I kind of take this to extreems. "Plus just wanted someone to explain to me what a "blurier" was, I can't quite visualize it, someone told me and I forgot." Stepping double over down? I'd just like to say this is an increadible trick. Any one who still hasn't seen it Kenny does one on the Tam Tam jam vidio, at WWW.footbag.org, of cource, just click on the Kenny animation. You know that would be good practice for barflys also... Andrew McCargar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 16 22:35:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02438 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:35:09 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2101) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02099 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:49:02 GMT Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19873 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:49:04 -0800 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OVHIa28013 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:48:58 -0500 (EST) From: StinKyKiwi Message-ID: <4e1e152f.350d9e49@aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:48:58 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Move name Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org yo, I saw this awsome shredder in Shredded Wheat do something that looks like this...CLIP>SAME IN [DEX]>SPIN(BACK)>OP CLIP I hope the notation is right....and I might me wrong about the spin(back) stuff, doesnt that mean sping away from the bag? take it easy yal, Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 16 22:42:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02493 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:42:05 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2390) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02388 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:33:11 GMT Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.37]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20638 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:33:14 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OLMKa03501 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:32:49 -0500 (EST) From: Nageylum Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:32:49 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] I've got a question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey, I've got a question for all ya that can help me. Whirling swirls, i've been doing them for a while but it seems that the outside of my lavers keeps hitting the ground. Now is there any special little trick that i've over looked or do i just need to practice whirls and swirls more to get better speed, leading to better timing? "they call me Tim." Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 17 08:24:12 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA05272 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:24:00 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4599) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA04597 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 05:02:25 GMT Received: from stick.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27136 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:02:31 -0800 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA12183; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:02:53 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:02:53 -0600 (CST) From: Eric Burgess To: StinKyKiwi cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move name In-Reply-To: <4e1e152f.350d9e49@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, StinKyKiwi wrote: > I saw this awsome shredder in Shredded Wheat do something that looks like > this...CLIP>SAME IN [DEX]>SPIN(BACK)>OP CLIP sounds like paradox torque to me...if i'm visualizing the right spin direction. i can't even think of what it would be like spinning the other direction...paradox whirling spinning clipper??? geez eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 17 16:31:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00771 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:29:14 GMT Received: from bpepper@holly.colostate.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (409) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00407 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:42:45 GMT Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA01541 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:42:40 -0800 Received: from holly.ColoState.EDU (holly.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.76]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id IAA28758 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:42:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from ts2210.SLIP.ColoState.EDU (ts2210.SLIP.ColoState.EDU [129.82.192.78]) by holly.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with SMTP id IAA151370 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:42:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <350EAB3D.1F08@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:56:29 -0800 From: bill pepper Reply-To: bpepper@holly.ColoState.EDU Organization: csu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] dexterities and clubs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey there been kicking for a while (about 15 yrs), but i am now trying to actually improve. currently trying to nail the stalls and DEXTERITIES COUPLE q'S FOR Y'ALL 1. any and all tips on creating a university club.(i'd like to start one at CSU to both promote the sport and improve my play). 2. an OUT DEX. (i do a move which is left leg over footbag immediately into a flying clip kick). is that a true OUT DEX or does the leg have to come completely around. i allso do a move where IN DEX goes to a jumping inside kick (op side). is that anything ? or the beginning of something? whats a good next step? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 17 16:31:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00758 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:29:12 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5574) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA05572 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:04:09 GMT Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.41]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA31581 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 03:04:17 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id ONVZa14703 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 06:04:07 -0500 (EST) From: Nageylum Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 06:04:07 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] I've got a question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org not sure if i already sent this so here it goes again hey hey, I've got a question for all ya that can help me. Whirling swirls, i've been doing them for a while but it seems that the outside of my lavers keeps hitting the ground. Now is there any special little trick that i've over looked or do i just need to practice whirls and swirls more to get better speed, leading to better timing? "they call me Tim." Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 17 21:59:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03270 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 21:59:50 GMT Received: from bpepper@holly.colostate.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2207) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02205 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:32:39 GMT Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06350 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:32:40 -0800 Received: from holly.ColoState.EDU (holly.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.76]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id MAA33814 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:32:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (bpepper@localhost) by holly.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with SMTP id MAA59186 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:32:21 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:32:21 -0700 (MST) From: William Pepper To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] thanks Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org thanks for the reponses people (jane and one other person whose name i forget) does rick reeese have a contact # or address or maybe e-mail i'd like him to kick with us up here in ft collins if he'd be interested it's not too easy for me to travel (time-kids-life), although i'm interested in going to check out some comps if people are pooling there. bill Q. whats an outside stall to OP clip kick? a spin accros the back (rotate to the R) to a flying clip (R)? bill From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 17 21:59:51 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03256 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 21:59:48 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2091) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02089 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:22:08 GMT Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06014 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:22:03 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id ODDIa09327 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:21:47 -0500 (EST) From: Nageylum Message-ID: <54cb737a.350ecd4d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:21:47 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] yet another move question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey, Well it seems that i've been having trouble with my e-mail sending, but that's besides the point. Anyway, i'm starting to do blury whirls and i've hit them a few time on each leg now is there a way to better at this move with out just doing this one move over and over again, like other moves that will help me with my timing and all that jazz??? any help is great if ya can send it my way. Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 18 02:21:38 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05180 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:21:36 GMT Received: from derric@dallasfootbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3664) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03661 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:51:50 GMT Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10503 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:51:46 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA13677; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:51:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from fit.netcomi.com(204.58.155.64) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013591; Tue Mar 17 16:50:35 1998 Message-ID: <350DAD91.25D@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:54:09 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bpepper@holly.ColoState.EDU CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] dexterities and clubs References: <350EAB3D.1F08@holly.colostate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org bill pepper wrote: > > hey there > been kicking for a while (about 15 yrs), but i am now trying to actually > improve. > currently trying to nail the stalls and DEXTERITIES > COUPLE q'S FOR Y'ALL > > 1. any and all tips on creating a university club.(i'd like to start one > at CSU to both promote the sport and improve my play). > Talk to the people who organize most of the campus activities. They will know how to start a club. For my school (UTD), it is easy. Just get 5 people and one faculty member to sign up for it. Bam. You have a club and they give you $50 to start out with. As far as getting the word out about your club and getting other people to join, I don't know. I'll listen to any advice on that. I've just been kicking around campus hoping people will come up and join me. I guess it just takes time and persistance. > 2. an OUT DEX. (i do a move which is left leg over footbag immediately > into a flying clip kick). is that a true OUT DEX or does the leg have to > come completely around. Yep. That is an out dex. That move is called a flying butterfly kick. Try stalling the bag on that clipper instead of just kicking it. That is called a butterfly and is a key component in many other moves. > i allso do a move where IN DEX goes to a jumping inside kick (op side). > is that anything ? or the beginning of something? whats a good next > step? That is a dragonfly kick. These are all good places to start... especially the stalls. Get Tricks of the Trade. It is a video you can order from the WFA. It has The Good Man (Kenny) showing all of the basic moves and a few of the harder ones. It'll be enough to get you going. Kick on. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 18 02:21:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05169 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:21:34 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4818) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04816 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:36:30 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca ([207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA13134 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:36:33 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA06664; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:36:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:36:11 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: Nageylum cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] yet another move question In-Reply-To: <54cb737a.350ecd4d@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Nageylum wrote: > besides the point. Anyway, i'm starting to do blury whirls and i've hit > them a few time on each leg now is there a way to better at this move with out > just doing this one move over and over again, like other moves that will help > me with my timing and all that jazz??? any help is great if ya can send it my > way. The best way is to practice it over and over and over but there are moves to master before you do blurry whirl. This really helps with complex moves such as blurry whirl. Practice moves that are associated with blurry whirl: whirl, paradox whirl, blur, ripwalk etc. If you have these mastered (90% or higher) than blurry whirl will come relativley easy. Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 19 00:16:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA03757 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:15:08 GMT Received: from dashiell@essential.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2857) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02855 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:59:31 GMT Received: from essential.essential.org (essential.org [198.4.52.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29247 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:59:31 -0800 Received: from essential.org (frankenstein.essential.org [198.4.52.22]) by essential.essential.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01496 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:01:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <351044E7.5597B819@essential.org> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:04:23 -0500 From: Dashiell Love X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] ankle sprain (Tuan, Vince tells me your the expert) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, I finally found the listserves, and just in time to inquire about any advice anyone may have about ideas for quick recovery for ankle sprains. I was running last thursday when my right ankle folded in. I have been wearing an ace bandage, and can walk alright but my ankle cannot bend too far and is sore from the kicking I did today. I fear my overzealousness will prevent or postpone proper healing. Anyone have any advice? - thanx - Dashiell Love From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 19 00:16:12 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA03751 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:15:07 GMT Received: from hackin420@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2749) Received: from hotmail.com (f113.hotmail.com [207.82.251.43]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA02747 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:48:07 GMT Received: (qmail 19912 invoked by uid 0); 18 Mar 1998 21:47:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19980318214724.19911.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 129.71.123.67 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:47:24 PST X-Originating-IP: [129.71.123.67] From: "jeff shields" To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] 3 add dex moves Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:47:24 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have been having trouble lately with alot of the 3 add dex tricks like pixie moves and the eggbeater. I was wodering if there was anyone who know of ways to improve leg speed. I can get the dex but not quite fast enough. Any tips? Are there any serious kicker up near Erie, Pa. I will be spending this summer there and kicking by yourself with no advice or help on tricks is hard after a while. Jeff ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 19 03:49:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA05640 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 03:49:14 GMT Received: from mccombsa@ucs.orst.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5489) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA05487 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 03:38:43 GMT Received: from ucs.orst.edu (UCS.ORST.EDU [128.193.4.5]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA02325 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:38:46 -0800 Received: from localhost by ucs.orst.edu (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/13Sep96-1023AM) id AA31398; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:38:45 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:38:45 -0800 (PST) From: Avery Mc Combs Reply-To: Avery Mc Combs To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] spring break Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Is anyone going to be in the Seattle area between march 23rd and 26th? I will be up there visiting my half-brother and would like to take this opportunity to kick with some new people. Please email me at mccombsa@ucs.orst.edu and tell me your phone number and adress and I will give you a call. -Avery From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 19 05:16:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA06160 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 05:16:25 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6109) Received: from stick.netcomi.com ([204.58.155.64]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA06107 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 05:14:50 GMT Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA06744; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:15:17 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:15:17 -0600 (CST) From: Eric Burgess To: jeff shields cc: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] 3 add dex moves In-Reply-To: <19980318214724.19911.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, jeff shields wrote: > I have been having trouble lately with alot of the 3 add dex > tricks like pixie moves and the eggbeater. I was wodering if there was > anyone who know of ways to improve leg speed. I can get the dex but not > quite fast enough. Any tips? chances are you don't need to go any faster. once you really learn a move, it actually seems *slower* than you originally thought. this has been true of every move i have tried, up to and including paradox atomsmasher. of course you will probably have to keep trying to go faster in order to get to that point, but control will get you farther than leg speed any day. keep shredding!! eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 19 16:52:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00660 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:50:50 GMT Received: from klein@proscape.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8785) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA08783 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:40:20 GMT Received: from proxyserv.proscape.com (mail.proscape.com [205.147.246.8]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA09040 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 06:40:29 -0800 Received: by proxyserv.proscape.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BD531A.70D8BF70@proxyserv.proscape.com>; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:36:06 -0500 Message-ID: From: Ethan Klein To: "'freestyle list'" Subject: [freestyle] Attaining the smoothiness Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:36:04 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Footbag brethren, Lately I haven't enjoyed the impetus to write, or think, passionately about footbag because of a performance lull that I've been struggling through. Over the last few weeks I just haven't been able to put it together in the footbag arena. Knowing I could hit certain moves and/or combos, boffing them, getting frustrated! However, I have THE classic Rippin Rick picture hanging on the wall in front of my office cubicle and yesterday I just stared at his perfected clipper. Stared at his immaculate balance, imagining him tossing that clipper into his signature paradox symposium whirl or maybe even a rare, but super-dank Rippin flurry. He's totally OVER THE BAG. He's totally mid flow. Anyway - I went home last night and skooled solo, invigorated by imaginatory mental ramblings stemming from the Rippin picture. To my infinite pleasure the zone overtook me. A slight elevation in confidence catapulting me in and through my cusp level moves and combos. Psyched by actualized symmetry, impersonating the stylistic grace and fluidity of the all-mighty master of all that is rippin, the Gods of footbag have again intoxicated me with the perpetually un-satiated, yet glorious love of the game! Must go work See ya - Ethan My dilemma - Worlds or Himalayan Indian adventure??? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 20 07:43:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA06870 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:43:34 GMT Received: from s9709652@jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5789) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA05787 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 03:40:25 GMT Received: from rmit.EDU.AU (voga.rmit.EDU.AU [131.170.1.20]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22650 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:40:28 -0800 Received: from jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au (jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.EDU.AU [131.170.36.250]) by rmit.EDU.AU (8.8.8/8.7.3/ram4/ANTI-SPAM/ANTI-RELAY/VOGA) with ESMTP id OAA02027 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:40:15 +1100 (EST) Received: from POISSON/SpoolDir by jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 20 Mar 98 14:41:32 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by POISSON (Mercury 1.21); 20 Mar 98 14:40:59 +1100 From: "Lynton Stephens" Organization: Civil & Geological Engineering RMIT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:40:57 EST-10 Subject: [freestyle] Toe Blur hints? Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-ID: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi freestylers- I've been attempting toe blur without any success and am seeking hints, I'm sure there are many of you out there who nail it smooth & often. I keep crashing into the bag with the knee of my set leg after I do the first mirage, which is an extremely ugly technique flaw. I have experimented but not stumbled upon a solution. I'm sure I have the speed, my smears, fairy mirages, etc are fine. Atom smasher & double mirage are nearly there. I did 8 consec. double Around the World's in February, but as I said my technique lets me down with toe blur. HELP. thanks, Lynton. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 20 16:30:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00968 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:30:13 GMT Received: from vernd@geotrac.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8152) Received: from mail.accnorwalk.com (mail.accnorwalk.com [207.87.221.24]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA08150 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:33:34 GMT Received: from vernd.geotrac.com ([207.87.222.34]) by mail.accnorwalk.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release 0122 ID# 564-48782U3500L350S0) with SMTP id AAA176 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:36:19 -0500 Received: by vernd.geotrac.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BD53DA.A54B66C0@vernd.geotrac.com>; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:31:57 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD53DA.A54B66C0@vernd.geotrac.com> From: Vern DeHaven To: "'freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Attaining the smoothiness Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:31:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD53DA.A54B66C0" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD53DA.A54B66C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Ethan Klein My dilemma - Worlds or Himalayan Indian adventure??? Love the dissertation, Ethan, however, your dilemma might be trivial. = Though millions of years sit waiting to be discovered in that Himalayan = wilderness, even all of that old growth energy can't top the power of = thousands of generations whose ancestry has culminated in the grace to = be displayed at Worlds. In other words, hug all the trees you want, footbag is way cooler. Venture, Vern ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD53DA.A54B66C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjkNAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAWAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAXQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVzdHlsZUBtYWpv cmRvbW8uZm9vdGJhZy5vcmcAU01UUABmcmVlc3R5bGVAbWFqb3Jkb21vLmZvb3RiYWcub3JnAAAA AB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAgAAAAZnJlZXN0eWxlQG1ham9yZG9tby5mb290 YmFnLm9yZwADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAiAAAAJ2ZyZWVzdHlsZUBtYWpvcmRvbW8u Zm9vdGJhZy5vcmcnAAAAAgELMAEAAAAlAAAAU01UUDpGUkVFU1RZTEVATUFKT1JET01PLkZPT1RC QUcuT1JHAAAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAACg0oBBIABACoAAABSRTog W2ZyZWVzdHlsZV0gQXR0YWluaW5nIHRoZSBzbW9vdGhpbmVzcwB4DwEFgAMADgAAAM4HAwAUAAgA HwAzAAUASwEBIIADAA4AAADOBwMAFAAIABIAMwAFAD4BAQmAAQAhAAAANEY4RTdFN0RDQUJGRDEx MThCREM0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAANAcBA5AGAOgDAAAUAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAA AwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQCAD5eKBFS9AR4AcAABAAAAKgAAAFJFOiBbZnJlZXN0eWxlXSBB dHRhaW5pbmcgdGhlIHNtb290aGluZXNzAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb1UBIqPfX6OVb/KEdGL3ERF U1QAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAADAAAATVMAAB4AHwwBAAAAGwAAAFdPUktHUk9VUC9TT1VUSFZJRVcvVmVy bmV0AAADAAYQdgzy9wMABxCNAQAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAARlJPTTpFVEhBTktMRUlOPEtMRUlOQFBS T1NDQVBFQ09NTVlESUxFTU1BLVdPUkxEU09SSElNQUxBWUFOSU5ESUFOQURWRU5UVVJFPz8/TE9W RVRIRURJU1NFUlRBVElPTixFVAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAEUCAABBAgAAagMAAExaRnXbbquI/wAKAQ8C FQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzIDxgcTAoNGMwPFAgBwcnESInOodGVtAoM0 Ew19CoCLCM8J2TsXnzI1NQKABwqBDbELYG5nMTAzwxQgCwNsaTM2DfALVVcVwgwBFMBvFUBjBUBG YQNhOiBFdBHAA6BLpGxlC4AgPB3jQByhIQTwYXBlLgWgbT7XC0YS8gwBYwBAIAqFCofDG98c4k15 IGQDEBVQIQDAIC0gVwWwbGSbBCAFsUgHcAdAYXkDkYxJbiMwA5FhZHYJ8PJ0CHBlPyYQCo8f3yZy 9ExvJaAgHZAo0CMwBBDTBJABkHRpAiAsHXQp8FBob3dlJaByKfB5QwhhIydtaWdoBUBiCyjRBRB2 BzEuICBU7SqAdSwAK9FsG2ACICQhamYrAGUR0SAAkAVAd+8LcCmwGqAo4G8sMikxBaD7KsEJgCAe ER2RBUAkeAPw9yQABJEHkHMp8CqxJWEtoP8uAjCjBvAwUAnAKpAdkDJAmTHwcmcjEB7wbicFQPUv YHAo43AqkQXAMuMIYO5zAHAkEi4gZzQSKaMEIM53KoAR8CVwbmMHkCxwRyMQEcAEIGN1bCvgbv8p oDBGKNAJwADQKNEvdgtR7y5AMFAwwSPULiC8JRAkMPso8QXAdwWwJBAqYS1AMpP/KPIscAngBCAr ES7RAjAp8PMCEBzAYmEvQAQALtE0Yas/gB3wcjvNViW0LEFHFwSgJkUWwQBDkAAAAAMAEBAAAAAA AwAREAAAAABAAAcwYHaMuQJUvQFAAAgwYHaMuQJUvQEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9 NwAADxA= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD53DA.A54B66C0-- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 20 17:09:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01421 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:09:43 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1213) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA01210 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:49:47 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.126]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA31580 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:49:47 -0800 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA123112583; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:49:44 -0600 Received: from localhost by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA277632578; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:49:39 -0600 Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:49:38 -0600 (CST) From: Sean Wingert Reply-To: Sean Wingert To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Leg Speed Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jeff Shields wrote: > I've been having trouble with leg speed on eggbeater & 3-add moves... I agree with Eric that leg speed is an after-effect of mastering the trick, but I would add that--especially on double dexterity or fast dexterity moves--putting your *knee* over the bag for the first dexterity (as opposed to bringing your ankle around the bag) is very effective in moves like leg/egg beater, down-double, barrage (especially), and all "blurry" tricks. Kenny Shults hit the nail on the head in TOTT: set the bag *STRAIGHT UP*! Leg Beater Example (Sean's interpretation :-)) Set the bag perfectly vertical (and directly in front of your crotch). Then *twist your hips* 90 degrees (reverse miraging, with your dex leg in the air) to finish the first dex (the bag should travel directly under the hamstring of that leg). If you do it right, the rest of leg beater is a simple (cough, cough) butterfly--looks good, feels better. Sean :-) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 21 00:39:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA05135 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 00:39:28 GMT Received: from zogg13@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4150) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA04148 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:44:27 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f6.hotmail.com [207.82.250.17]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA05660 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:44:30 -0800 Received: (qmail 23344 invoked by uid 0); 20 Mar 1998 22:44:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19980320224429.23343.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 32.100.87.201 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:44:28 PST X-Originating-IP: [32.100.87.201] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] One question Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:44:28 EST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok an around the world is when you circle around the bag with your foot. What is it when you bring your foot over the bag and back under to the toe stall? Steve ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 21 05:54:19 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA06699 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 05:54:00 GMT Received: from jpenney@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6575) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA06573 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 05:26:09 GMT Received: from hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10261 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:26:14 -0800 Received: from sara (grc-ny14-47.ix.netcom.com [207.94.106.111]) by hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (8.8.5/george96) with SMTP id AAA14521; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 00:30:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980321003107.007b5e70@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> X-Sender: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 00:31:07 -0500 To: "Steve Miskiewicz" From: Big Fat Josh Penney Subject: Re: [freestyle] One question Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <19980320224429.23343.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 05:44 PM 3/20/98 EST, you wrote: >Ok an around the world is when you circle around the bag with your foot. >What is it when you bring your foot over the bag and back under to the >toe stall? Around the world with *really* bad form. You're really asking me to define dexterity. The rules say (I think) that a dexterity occurs when a leg gets between your line of sight and the bag. 'True dexterity' is the lower part of the calf circling the bag completely. Considering the nature of how freestyle has evolved since that definition of 'true dexterity' I suggest that circling with anything higher up on the leg is okay too. I just assumed it was... well... assumed. Anything lower than the ankle is considered "The" as far as I'm concerned. So your 'over the bag' bit is really "around *The* world." JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 23 15:49:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA02124 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:48:59 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1981) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA01979 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:00:20 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.126]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA18324 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:00:23 -0800 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA133455222; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:00:22 -0600 Received: from localhost by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA156425222; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:00:22 -0600 Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:00:22 -0600 (CST) From: Sean Wingert To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #359 In-Reply-To: <199803202350.XAA04743@eniac.yak.net.taz> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Lynton Stephens wrote: > I've been attempting toe blur without any success and am seeking > hints. > I keep crashing into the bag with the knee of my set leg > after I do the first mirage, which is an extremely ugly technique > flaw. I've been skooling Toe Blur the last few nights (as a cool-down, in hail-mary-please-please-please fashion) and ran into the same problem you are having (hitting the bag with the set foot after the initial dex). But, I fixed it by (1) setting the bag *straight up* in front of my crotch, (2) swinging my hips (*not* my legs) to finish the first dex. This technique was effective on both left and right sets. The rest of the move--which will now feel like a paradox mirage--should be simple if you've mastered, as you say you have, Smear and Smudge. Once you start nailing this move (learn it both sides), you will know you have it licked when you can hit: Toe Blur, Smear, Toe Blur, Smudge, Toe Blur, Toe set Barrage. Also, once you learn Legbeater, Atom Smasher, Blur, and Blizzard combine them (you must have both sides, however): Toe Blur, Smear, Smudge, Toe Blur, Leg Beater, Blur, Atom Smasher--now repeat. 1-2-3 cha, cha, cha... :-) Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 23 18:55:59 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA03584 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:55:58 GMT Received: from shahrayar@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3329) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA03327 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:32:49 GMT Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21152 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:32:50 -0800 Received: from SHAHRAYAR@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OSZBa12035 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:32:00 -0500 (EST) From: SHAHRAYAR Message-ID: <700bc44e.3516aaa2@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:32:00 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Toe Blur hints? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org toe blur (how to hit it) a question that has plagued me for some time now.... In a message dated 98-03-20 02:44:35 EST, you write: << Hi freestylers- I've been attempting toe blur without any success and am seeking hints, I'm sure there are many of you out there who nail it smooth & often. I keep crashing into the bag with the knee of my set leg after I do the first mirage, which is an extremely ugly technique flaw. I have experimented but not stumbled upon a solution. I'm sure I have the speed, my smears, fairy mirages, etc are fine. Atom smasher & double mirage are nearly there. I did 8 consec. double Around the World's in February, but as I said my technique lets me down with toe blur. HELP. thanks, Lynton. >> From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 23 18:56:03 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA03554 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:55:32 GMT Received: from crvich@raleigh.ibm.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3252) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA03250 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:23:40 GMT Received: from fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns1d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.235]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21012 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:23:39 -0800 Received: from rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com ([9.37.172.24]) by fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7RTP-FW1.1) with ESMTP id JAA34478 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:59:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (ode1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.178.164]) by rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id JAA31268 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:59:56 -0500 Received: from odent1.raleigh.ibm.com by ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA33110; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:59:48 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980323095933.0090a880@ode1> X-Sender: crvich@ode1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:59:33 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: [freestyle] A few random comments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org 1. Footbag has finally appeared on The Simpsons. Last night's episode showed the local bullies (Nelson, Jimbo, Dolph, and Kearny) standing in a circle, kicking a live frog back and forth. 2. While wasting my life away in a Yahoo chat room, Trivia Madness, I asked the following question: Hacky Sack is the brand name for what sport? No one had a clue, and several (at least 3) people made nasty comments such as "that's a sport??? haha!", "I hope it never makes it to the Olympics", and "this is a lame question". I avoided any arguments, but I left a bit depressed...I must admit I hate how the electronic age seems to bring out the JERK in people. 3. I've apparently pulled a muscle, probably from not stretching enough. It's in my right leg, where the quad attaches to the hip, which makes it painful to do toe stalls on that leg...double leg overs which end in a right toe are especially bad. I've only styled twice in the last 2.5 weeks, both times ending in moderate pain. The straw that broke my back was Sunil TURBO Jani's visit...I was so overwhelmed by his [reverse] miraging sets (SO DAMN HIGH!) that my only recourse was to do a lot of eggbeaters, dbl leg overs, and a few pdx dbl leg overs...all ending on a right toe. It was my undoing. Ambivalently, Ernest -- Ernest M. Crvich Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 23 20:48:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA04532 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:48:22 GMT Received: from hill9361@uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3943) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA03934 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:39:46 GMT Received: from harrier.csrv.uidaho.edu (harrier.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.119.224]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22553 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:39:01 -0800 Received: from raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.192.43]) by harrier.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_12836)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA29602 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:38:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA03401 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:38:02 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.csrv.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:38:01 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand X-Sender: hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Mexico promotion? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just spent spring break in several parts of Sonora and Chihuahua Mexico, and of course I tried to promote freestyle like I always do when I go to Mexico. This time was different because I had a facile bag and a pair of lavers. I recently said during the Olympics thread that I didn't see freestyle spreading across the world like wild fire any time soon, but I imagine if we all went to a different country we could make some progress. (hahha, in my dreams). The children in Mexico, though, are naturals! They all know how to juggle a soccer ball, so they immediately began trying to do tricky manuevers. I met a tour guide from Nogales, Sonora who might be able to help promote footbag all over the place. Do you guys think that Hacky Sack or some other company would want to donate some bags? I could have them sent to my tour guide friend and have them distributed to schools to get them interested. Or maybe I am burnt out from jetlag, and you can all tell me how dumb I am, again. __________________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 24 01:40:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA06467 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 01:40:22 GMT Received: from mzelov@sun1.wetmore.amphi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5491) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA05489 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:04:14 GMT Received: from sun1.wetmore.amphi.com ([206.210.128.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA27011 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:03:57 -0800 Received: from [206.210.140.108] by sun1.wetmore.amphi.com; (5.65/1.1.8.2/14Feb98-0313PM) id AA24771; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:04:12 -0700 Message-Id: <3516F8BA.7125@sun1.wetmore.amphi.com> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:05:14 -0800 From: marc zelov Organization: amphi public schools X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Thanks Sunil Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello ALL., I just wnated to publicly thank SUNIL JANI for his graciousness at joining our club/class last week. While on a recruitment visit for the UofA, Sunil stopped by my school and gave my students a taste of some serious freestyle. We got in contact via this list-serve. My students really enjoyed his impromptu and rushed visit. (Sunil came directly from the airport to my classroom in record time!!). The students are still discussing the "legbeaters" and paradox mirages that Sunil demonstrated. THANKS Sunil. Thank you STEVE Goldberg as well, without this service, this never would have happened. SIncerely, and kickingly\ Marc Zelov http://www.footbag.org/newclubs/listclub/amphi From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 24 01:43:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA06526 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 01:43:25 GMT Received: from tuhuge@sfsu.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5525) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA05523 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:07:27 GMT Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA27076 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:07:32 -0800 Received: from tuhuge.sfsu.edu (madmax-12.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.12]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA23592; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:06:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980323150458.00693420@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:04:58 -0800 To: Ernest Crvich , freestyle@footbag.org From: Tu the Vu Subject: Re: [freestyle] A few random comments In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980323095933.0090a880@ode1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 09:59 AM 3/23/98 -0500, Ernest Crvich wrote: > >1. Footbag has finally appeared on The Simpsons. Last night's episode >showed the local bullies (Nelson, Jimbo, Dolph, and Kearny) standing in a >circle, kicking a live frog back and forth. That wasn't the first time footbag has been on the simpsons. There were 3 references where the characters says, "hacky sack." I have a sound file where grandpa say, "just a quick game of Hacky sack." 2 Huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 24 01:57:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA06734 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 01:57:30 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6629) Received: from Market.NET ([140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA06627 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 01:52:02 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA29564 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:51:33 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] (dhcptest78.atext.com [206.66.71.237]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA06594; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 01:49:17 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980323150458.00693420@sfsu.edu> References: <3.0.2.32.19980323095933.0090a880@ode1> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:49:38 -0800 To: Tu the Vu From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] A few random comments Cc: Ernest Crvich , freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 3:04 PM -0800 3/23/98, Tu the Vu wrote: >>1. Footbag has finally appeared on The Simpsons. Last night's episode >>showed the local bullies (Nelson, Jimbo, Dolph, and Kearny) standing in a >>circle, kicking a live frog back and forth. > >That wasn't the first time footbag has been on the simpsons. No, in fact, Matt Gruening and the producers of the Simpsons seem to have made it their life's ambition to poke fun at our obscure little game. I find it more humorous than anything... :-) I really enjoyed last night's frog-kicking session. It was great. But the one dude used his knees -- blech. Definitely not proper Bloughchi stance... Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 24 02:41:08 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA07157 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 02:41:02 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6842) Received: from Market.NET ([140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA06840 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 02:04:08 GMT Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA29887 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:03:41 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id IBZUa09328; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:00:53 -0500 (EST) From: Nageylum Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:00:53 EST To: tuhuge@sfsu.edu, crvich@raleigh.ibm.com, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] A few random comments Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 98-03-23 20:48:56 EST, tuhuge@sfsu.edu writes: << "just a quick game of Hacky sack." >> this would be in reference to the one when Homer, eats the blow fish and thinks he's going to die, and ends up spending most of his time to grandpa simpson. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 24 08:09:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA09112 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:09:13 GMT Received: from derric@dallasfootbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8897) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA08895 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:22:22 GMT Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02754 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:22:32 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA15850 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 01:22:30 -0600 (CST) Received: from fit.netcomi.com(204.58.155.64) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma015778; Tue Mar 24 01:22:05 1998 Message-ID: <3515AB7B.1B3B@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 01:25:58 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] reverse mirages Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org All of this talk about legbeaters and such makes me wonder... Does anyone have any tip[s on that reveerse mirage set? Honestly, I can't even hit reverse mirage like I should be able to. When I do reverse mirage, I want to lean back and throw my leg out too far. I can see the problem, but I don't know what to do to fix it. When I try to get a reverse mirage set, the bag is already on its way down before my dex foot even touches the ground. I've tried to use my hips for the dex, but when I do, the bag is out beside me and not in front of me. That makes it difficult to hit anything after it. I hope I'm making sense with all of this rambling... Anyway, can someone give me pointers on how to hit a really smooth reverse mirage, and how to get that reverse mirage set? I would appreciate it. -D Oh yeah. Come to Dallas April 25-26 for the 1998 Southern Regional Footbag Championships. http://www.dallasfootbag.org/southern.html From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 24 17:52:55 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA11417 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 17:52:12 GMT Received: from vernd@geotrac.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10276) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA10274 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:42:47 GMT Received: from mail.accnorwalk.com (mail.accnorwalk.com [207.87.221.24]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA05904 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 06:43:00 -0800 Received: from vernd.geotrac.com ([207.87.222.34]) by mail.accnorwalk.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release 0122 ID# 564-48782U3500L350S0) with SMTP id AAA170 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:45:42 -0500 Received: by vernd.geotrac.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BD5708.F8795CE0@vernd.geotrac.com>; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:41:07 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD5708.F8795CE0@vernd.geotrac.com> From: Vern DeHaven To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] RE: Mexico promotion? Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:41:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Matt Hillebrand >The children in Mexico, though, are naturals! They all know how to juggle >a soccer ball, so they immediately began trying to do tricky manuevers. No kiddin'. My brother and I were joined by some kids in Cozumel who could show us some things about control and balance. >I could have them sent to my tour guide friend and have them distributed >to schools to get them interested. >Or maybe I am burnt out from jetlag, and you can all tell me how dumb I >am, again. I think it's a good idea. It's a natural extension for people in any Latin American or European country. It's much harder to proliferate the sport in this country most probably because we can't keep our hands out of anything (sport or otherwise :). If Wham-O isn't into it, maybe someone like IDig or Adidas would be. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 24 17:52:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA11404 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 17:52:06 GMT Received: from klein@proscape.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10044) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA10042 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:46:47 GMT Received: from proxyserv.proscape.com (mail.proscape.com [205.147.246.8]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA05558 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 05:47:00 -0800 Received: by proxyserv.proscape.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BD5700.CAC3AD80@proxyserv.proscape.com>; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:42:34 -0500 Message-ID: From: Ethan Klein To: "'freestyle list'" Subject: [freestyle] Linus "Turbo" Jani Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:42:33 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org All this talk of Sunil's legbeaters and "Elevated" reverse mirage sets, I think that I should mention a recent development. Last night in West Philly the nugget from Nutley nonchalantly nailed the notoriously nasty needle-threaded FUSION. (Reverse miraging double over down!) A Tuan special rarely witnessed around these parts. He was bummed, however, because he didn't "seal" it by hitting a 3 add move (or higher) afterwards. How do people feel about sealing vs. not sealing moves and how this determines their legitimacy? See ya - Ethan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 24 19:14:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA11949 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:14:46 GMT Received: from dfogle@mlerf.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (11794) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA11790 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 18:54:20 GMT Received: from trib1.trib.net (trib1.trib.net [12.10.112.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA09391 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:54:35 -0800 Received: from www.mlerf.org (www.mlerf.org [12.10.114.3]) by trib1.trib.net (NTMail 3.03.0017/4c.adoc) with ESMTP id wa197180 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:01:43 -0600 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Linus "Turbo" Jani Message-Id: <000000163622973610823@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:00:22 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org ('freestyle list') MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Mar 24, 1998, 7:42:33 AM US CST Ethan Klein wrote: >move (or higher) afterwards. How do people feel about sealing vs. not >sealing moves and how this determines their legitimacy? Lame-ass dorks that can't see nourishing food because all they can see is beans they are trying to count... -- Derrick Fogle -- Heartland Eye Banks -- dfogle@mlerf.org -- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 25 02:30:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA14956 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 02:30:12 GMT Received: from jpenney@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (14910) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA14908 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 02:18:52 GMT Received: from hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA15279 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 18:19:10 -0800 Received: from sara (grc-ny16-16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.143.112]) by hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (8.8.5/george96) with SMTP id VAA13767 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:23:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980324212245.007bd700@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> X-Sender: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:22:45 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "The Darlin' Josh Penney" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Linus "Turbo" Jani In-Reply-To: <000000163622973610823@mlerf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 01:00 PM 3/24/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Tue, Mar 24, 1998, 7:42:33 AM US CST Ethan Klein wrote: >>move (or higher) afterwards. How do people feel about sealing vs. not >>sealing moves and how this determines their legitimacy? > >Lame-ass dorks that can't see nourishing food because all they can see is >beans they are trying to count... > I agree with Derrick *wholeheartedly*. While exhibiting control is important, I don't think everything has to be into a blender/blur/spinning dragonfly. If elitism is really the name of the game then eliminate those 'easy bail' moves, like butterfly, osis, and paradox mirage from your game and see how long your strings are. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 25 02:50:41 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA15043 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 02:50:35 GMT Received: from shredstein@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (14977) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA14975 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 02:30:55 GMT Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.41]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA15607 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 18:31:13 -0800 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OPDQa25293 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:30:17 -0500 (EST) From: ShReDStEiN Message-ID: <930c9f57.35186c3b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:30:17 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Unsung Heroes Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org All this talk about SUnil Jani makes me sort of aggravated=97In a positiv= ely=0Amotivated way. I hear people talking about sunil like he's the only= =0Ahardworking, semi-open freeestyler out there. Well I'd like to make th= is=0Aknown, there are a few kick-ass hardcore shredders out there that ma= ybe a bit=0Ayounger or bit unknown. It would take me awhile to mention al= l of them and to=0Amention all the sick moves they can and have it, so I = won't. No, I won't=0Amention names. (Josh Childs aka:Nageylum@aol.com, Tony GLick, matt avery, eric windsor, etc.) We are = the=0Aunderground up and coming freestylers of today and tomorrow. We are= the=0Anobodys who live to kick and have visions of blurry whirl to bedwetter dancing in= our=0Aheads. We love you SUnil and all of you guys but just want to say = don't forget=0Athe little people, cuz we'll be BAPtized soon enough and s= till kick just as=0Afurious as anyone. SO next time you think of writing = a letter that mentions=0A(and glorifies) only one freestyler's achievemen= ts alone, just remember all=0Athose nameless guiltless+ freestylers who k= eep the sport alive and well. God=0ABless you all!!! See you at our tourn= ament on April 4-5. BRyan "shred fiend" FOurnier=0A From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 25 03:39:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA15594 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 03:39:19 GMT Received: from jsbx@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (15084) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA15082 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 03:00:15 GMT Received: from imo30.mx.aol.com (imo30.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.74]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16177 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:00:31 -0800 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo30.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OMYVa18574 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:59:49 -0500 (EST) From: JSBX Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:59:49 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Linus "Turbo" Jani Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Penney answered a recent string with: "I agree with Derrick *wholeheartedly*. While exhibiting control is important, I don't think everything has to be into a blender/blur/spinning dragonfly. If elitism is really the name of the game then eliminate those 'easy bail' moves, like butterfly, osis, and paradox mirage from your game and see how long your strings are." I found this pretty funny, considering how i first saw footbag at Josh's tournament last year, and in my hopes of competing in this year's tournament, I am still trying to string together "easy bail" moves. Hell, I'm proud when i can get a measly paradox mirage, regular mirage, symposium mirage, and ecstatic when i can tack on a da da curve afterwards. Maybe sealing a move proves to the kicker that s/he has control over the move, but if anything, sealing should be a personal goal or a show off technique, not a mandatory elitist rule. It seems like too many kickers get too caught up with counting adds and sealing moves, and forget the simple pleasure one derives from kicking. If you are going to do a 3+ add move after a big move, do it because it looks and feels good, not because without the follow up, the initial move "doesn't count." Beat your fist through the static and the noise-beck KeN From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 25 03:40:25 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA15630 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 03:40:24 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (15326) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA15324 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 03:08:31 GMT Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (anaro@MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16248 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:08:49 -0800 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/SAS.04) id WAA27337; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:08:41 -0500 (EST) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Message-Id: <199803250308.WAA27337@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unsung Heroes To: ShReDStEiN@aol.com (ShReDStEiN) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:08:41 -0500 (EST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <930c9f57.35186c3b@aol.com> from "ShReDStEiN" at Mar 24, 98 09:30:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > All this talk about SUnil Jani makes me sort of aggravated In a positively > motivated way. I hear people talking about sunil like he's the only > hardworking, semi-open freeestyler out there. Relax there my friend. This whole S-Nil thing is just a bunch of his friends trying to embarass him. It seems we succeeded. If we weren't so silly, you probably would not have heard his name. > Well I'd like to make this > known, there are a few kick-ass hardcore shredders out there that maybe a bit > younger or bit unknown. It would take me awhile to mention all of them and to > mention all the sick moves they can and have it, so I won't. No, I won't > mention names. (Josh Childs > aka:Nageylum@aol.com, Tony GLick, matt avery, eric windsor, etc.) We are the > underground up and coming freestylers of today and tomorrow. Right on man, thanks for making it known. And there are plenty more. Josh Penney to name a few. Anyways, back to the whole sealing thing. It's all b.s. If you do a move clean, but miss the next butterfly cause all your friends just yelled YEAH! really loud into your ear, then who cares? Legit, schmegit. Fogle 1 x 0 Ethan. Oh, and major congrats to the world record setters. I can't imagine myself ever staying awake for over 20 hours, let alone kicking a footbag for that long. Honestly, I can't really believe it happened. Alex p.s. Hell has not frozen over yet, and so paradox around-the-world (or whatever this thing is named) = 2 adds. Hi Steve. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 25 03:40:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA15650 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 03:40:52 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (15564) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA15562 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 03:39:14 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16721 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:39:33 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] (pax-ca13-21.ix.netcom.com [204.31.233.53]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA15559 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 03:39:12 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <930c9f57.35186c3b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:39:20 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unsung Heroes Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 6:30 PM -0800 3/24/98, BRyan FOurnier (with a sticky caps button) wrote: >All this talk about SUnil Jani makes me sort of aggravated--In a positively >motivated way. I *almost* stopped myself from replying to this. But I couldn't. :-) >I hear people talking about sunil like he's the only > hardworking, semi-open freeestyler out there. True hero-worship doesn't really have a place in footbag -- but neither does chest-beating self-aggrandizing overly-competitive rhetoric. There are *lots* of great up-and-coming players and I can't wait to see my predictions of this sport's explosion come true (so far they have been right on the money). But we're not in this to prove anything to anyone but ourselves. Freestyle is about self-discipline, pushing your own limits, and expressing yourself. Remember that. Speak only in the positive and you won't offend. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 25 04:15:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA15972 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 04:15:05 GMT Received: from jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (15844) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA15842 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 04:08:38 GMT Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA17051 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:08:57 -0800 Received: from sloppo (Mizzou-AS3-19.missouri.edu [128.206.205.115]) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA28049 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:08:35 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980324220745.006b0704@pop.coin.missouri.edu> X-Sender: jriely@pop.coin.missouri.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:07:45 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Jeremiah Riely Subject: [freestyle] Spenco insoles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone I just got my new Spenco insoles and replaced the original insoles out of my lavers. But the new insoles are a little too wide right in the instep. I was wondering if I should cut out the sides of the insoles. Thanks From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 25 16:24:59 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00618 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:24:11 GMT Received: from crvich@raleigh.ibm.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18245) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA18243 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:05:05 GMT Received: from fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns1d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.235]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA21743 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 06:05:28 -0800 Received: from rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.47]) by fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7RTP-FW1.1) with ESMTP id JAA48792 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:04:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (ode1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.178.164]) by rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id JAA34768 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:04:54 -0500 Received: from odent1.raleigh.ibm.com by ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA29716; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:04:52 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980325090448.0090fde0@ode1> X-Sender: crvich@ode1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:04:48 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] Linus "Turbo" Jani In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980324212245.007bd700@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> References: <000000163622973610823@mlerf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 09:22 PM 3/24/98 -0500, The Darlin' Josh Penney wrote: >I agree with Derrick *wholeheartedly*. While exhibiting control is >important, I don't think everything has to be into a blender/blur/spinning Wait a minute, JP! I thought you expounded here a few months ago on the virtues of starting guiltless strings with only 0-add kicks, thereby making those of us who start strings with toe stalls or clipper stalls to feel like lesser mortals. 8-) Or am I thinking of one of the other J's? Just joshin'. ;-) -- Ernest M. Crvich Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 25 17:14:43 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00914 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:14:42 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (845) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00843 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:09:08 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f123.hotmail.com [207.82.251.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA23697 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:09:09 -0800 Received: (qmail 7842 invoked by uid 0); 25 Mar 1998 17:08:38 -0000 Message-ID: <19980325170838.7841.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.50 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:08:37 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.50] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Unsung Heroes Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:08:37 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue Mar 24 23:05:40 1998 Steve Goldberg wrote: "True hero-worship doesn't really have a place in footbag -- but neither does chest-beating self-aggrandizing overly-competitive rhetoric." I half agree and disagree, overly competitive rhetoric doesn't do us any good but I don't see why hero-worship doesn't. In fact I encourage anyone who wants to worship me to go ahead. On a slightly different note but still related to us under appreaciated semi pro players, while watching the B.A.P. at worlds and a bunch of video I've noticed that about 12-18 moves is something like the normal range for a shred. When I shred ( practicing is something very different ) I usually do about 10 moves, about 5-6 of them four add or above. Here is my quandary, is it better to do longer less difficult sets or shorter more difficult to improve? "Speak only in the positive and you won't offend." But what fun is that Steve:-) "a little revolution is a good thing, now and then"-Reds -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 26 23:03:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA10979 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 23:02:26 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9068) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA09066 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 18:41:25 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.126]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10971 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:41:35 -0800 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA114897693; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 12:41:34 -0600 Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 12:41:33 -0600 (CST) From: Sean Wingert To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Competition amongst up-and-coming Stylers In-Reply-To: <199803252350.XAA03597@eniac.yak.net.taz> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > From: Steve Goldberg > True hero-worship doesn't really have a place in footbag -- but neither > does chest-beating self-aggrandizing overly-competitive rhetoric. There > are *lots* of great up-and-coming players and I can't wait to see my > predictions of this sport's explosion come true (so far they have been > right on the money). But we're not in this to prove anything to anyone but > ourselves. Freestyle is about self-discipline, pushing your own limits, and > expressing yourself. Right on, Steve! Competition is wonderful thing (it helped make Adam Smith famous), but in certain contexts (ie. Freestyle), I don't think it should be the in-your-face type *ever*. Competition with yourself (pushing your personal limits, hitting combos you used to only dream about) should be an powerful driving force for serious shredders. Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 26 23:03:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA10984 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 23:02:27 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9724) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA09722 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 19:48:45 GMT Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11991 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:48:56 -0800 Received: from [207.208.136.30] (d30.focal.interaccess.com [207.208.136.30]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id NAA07797; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:42:12 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:42:12 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Jeremiah Riely , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Spenco insoles Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Jeremiah! >I just got my new Spenco insoles and replaced the original insoles out of >my lavers. But the new insoles are a little too wide right in the instep. I >was wondering if I should cut out the sides of the insoles. Definately. The green/black part is designed to be cut to fit your shoe. The packaging even says it is okay to cut to fit your shoe. See ya! Scott. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 27 21:51:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA18411 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:50:50 GMT Received: from zogg13@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18138) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA18136 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:23:34 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f3.hotmail.com [207.82.250.14]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA30933 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:23:56 -0800 Received: (qmail 9824 invoked by uid 0); 27 Mar 1998 21:23:26 -0000 Message-ID: <19980327212326.9823.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.72.213.115 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:23:25 PST X-Originating-IP: [166.72.213.115] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] A few random comments Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:23:25 EST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > ><< "just a quick game of Hacky sack." >> > >this would be in reference to the one when Homer, eats the blow fish and >thinks he's going to die, and ends up spending most of his time to grandpa >simpson. > Well, since you were talking about the simpsons. Hack sack was also said by the "crusty old dean" when Homer had to go back to college. "Well if any of you have any problems or just want to hang out and play hacky sack I'm up for it." Steve Miskiewicz Note: I don't think this is the EXACT thing he said so don't go sticking it in my face if you remember it differently. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 27 22:02:56 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA18530 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:02:55 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18458) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA18456 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:55:49 GMT Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.42]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA31472 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:56:11 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id PAJSa04943; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:55:15 -0500 (EST) From: Nageylum Message-ID: <25cb5089.351c2046@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:55:15 EST To: zogg13@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] A few random comments Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 98-03-27 16:52:30 EST, zogg13@hotmail.com writes: << Well, since you were talking about the simpsons >> since we're still on the simpsons, let's not forget about the one when "side show" bob becomes mayer, and the conservetive radio host said something about "hacky sack playing hippie liberals." Josh C. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 27 22:24:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA18667 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:24:26 GMT Received: from crvich@raleigh.ibm.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (18619) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA18617 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:18:24 GMT Received: from fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns2d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.236]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA31901 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:18:46 -0800 Received: from rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com (rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.172.47]) by fwns2.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7RTP-FW1.1) with ESMTP id RAA35424 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:18:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (ode1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.178.164]) by rtpmail03.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id RAA35652 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:18:09 -0500 Received: from odent1.raleigh.ibm.com by ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA38638; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:17:57 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980327171729.00910470@ode1> X-Sender: crvich@ode1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:17:29 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] A few random comments In-Reply-To: <19980327212326.9823.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 04:23 PM 3/27/98 EST, Steve Miskiewicz wrote: >Well, since you were talking about the simpsons. Hack sack was also >said by the "crusty old dean" when Homer had to go back to college. Well, since this item has generated so much response, I guess I should've clarified myself at the beginning that this was the first time, to my knowledge, that footbag *appeared* on the Simpsons. That is, actually showed characters kicking an object (a Frogbag, in this case) in a circle in our customary manner. That's my excuse anyway. *cough* -- Ernest M. Crvich Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 28 02:22:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA20110 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:21:54 GMT Received: from zogg13@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (20041) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA20039 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:14:13 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f44.hotmail.com [207.82.250.55]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA01965 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:14:37 -0800 Received: (qmail 28277 invoked by uid 0); 28 Mar 1998 02:14:06 -0000 Message-ID: <19980328021406.28276.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 129.37.250.212 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:14:06 PST X-Originating-IP: [129.37.250.212] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] New Move? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:14:06 EST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well I doubt this one is listed. I figured this one out when I was kicking around yesterday. I like to call it a twisted (or broken) ankle. First do a outside stall(right or left leg). Then lower your foot onto the ground with the footbag still on top(you will probably have to move your leg out farther from your body to keep the outside surface of your foot strait). Then transfer your weight to the foot you have stalled on. After that spin your body away from the new supporting foot until both feet are next to each other(looks like how ballet dancer stand). Then roll the bag from the outside stall to the foot you just spun (when rolling the bag tilt your foot with the outside stall up and when the bag touches the opp. foot roll that foot onto its side). You should end up in a stance that is the same as the end of a walk over. Well thats it. Man that turned out to be alot more writting than I expected. Steve Miskiewcz In case you were wondering why I called it a twisted ankle, just do the trick afew times in a row you'll figure out what I'm talking about. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 28 17:45:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA22902 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:44:48 GMT Received: from bpepper@holly.colostate.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (21453) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA21451 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:17:58 GMT Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05296 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 01:18:25 -0800 Received: from holly.ColoState.EDU (holly.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.76]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id CAA191300 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:18:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from ts4211.SLIP.ColoState.EDU (ts4211.SLIP.ColoState.EDU [129.82.192.127]) by holly.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with SMTP id CAA203968 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:18:19 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <351CD1D6.3450@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:32:54 -0800 From: bill pepper Reply-To: bpepper@holly.ColoState.EDU Organization: csu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] are these shoes great or what? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i wrote to this list about 3/4 weeks ago. i was just beginning to practice my stalls (seriously at least). since then i got my lavers ( like yeesterday). well today i hit a butterfly stall, clipper stalls, almost double around the world, leg -overs ( toe>op leg over (in and out)>stall(same), multiple around the world (consecutively), almost an osis (it's kinda weak), a couple hop overs, oh yea and mirage (couple of times -only one side). cool day huh?!!:) sorry to rant, but people said the lavers were a food shoe and they would increase my play ten-fold DAMN, they were right. i'm psyched now any and all tips.... i'm just begining to get used to the bounce thing ( my style was ariginally mostly flyers with a fast bag), true freestyle seems to have very few kicks. any particular moves or exercises to get the bounce in my step??? bill From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 28 18:06:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA23010 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 18:06:20 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (22962) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA22960 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:58:57 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07288 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:59:27 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.38] (brat1.atext.com [207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA22957; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:58:55 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <351CD1D6.3450@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:59:47 -0800 To: bpepper@holly.ColoState.EDU From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Beginning Freestyle (was: are these shoes great or what?) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Bill Pepper wrote: >any and all tips.... i'm just begining to get used to the bounce thing ( >my style was ariginally mostly flyers with a fast bag), true freestyle >seems to have very few kicks. any particular moves or exercises to get >the bounce in my step??? Well, I want to clarify -- "true" freestyle is whatever you want it to be! Kicks are just as cool as anything else. But if you're interested in the "technical" stuff (which it seems like you are), then stalls are a big part of that game. The secret to "bounce" is learning the necessary hop that accompanies *each* delay. That's what makes you bounce -- you do it naturally if you try to string together multiple delay moves for which you have to hop. So the way it works is -- you try to time each delay so that you hop *just* before the delay (on your plant leg) and catch the bag on your delay foot *just* the *instant* your delay leg lands (so that you can sink into it). This also gives you balance, so it's kind of a multi-purpose hop. Then, as you start stringing moves together, you start to get a rhythm. The best way to start learning the rhythm is to drill the same combo multiple times, i.e., left toe delay to right toe delay. Try to go back and forth for a long time (see how many you can do -- this is not too trivial for any new player because if nothing else it teaches you timing and helps reinforce the hop that needs to accompany each delay). The key things to try to remember are: don't stop moving between the delay and the set back out -- try to set straight back up out of each delay as soon as you can (but don't rush it, either; I'm just saying don't freeze completely); set the bag "just right" so it is high enough but not too high, so that the delays are timed with your natural rhythm (this will change over time); push out of each delay into a set and then plan to switch feet (without hopping, just throw your weight onto your other foot) and then push off the ground with your support foot, *hopping* into the air, and instantly delaying as you land. Hmm. This could go on forever. Better show you in person. Either meet me at the Southern Regional in Texas or the Western Regionals in California (worth the trip; see for dates), or get Daryl Genz (one of the top players in the world) to show you. He lives in Westminster. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 28 21:25:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA23453 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 21:24:48 GMT Received: from jsbx@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (23248) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA23246 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 20:19:59 GMT Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09309 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 12:20:30 -0800 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OLSSa09115 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 15:19:42 -0500 (EST) From: JSBX Message-ID: <155ff85d.351d5b60@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 15:19:42 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] mgic hop and bonciness Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "any particular moves or exercises to get the bounce in my step??? bill" Hi Bill. Congrats on such a productive day of kicking. the best advice i can give you to help develop the magic hop, or to get more of a bounce to your kicking is to try walking around listening to a song with a beat. Tell yourself you are cool, and strut like john travolta in "saturday night fever." Once you get the general attitude towards bouncing down, the rest should come naturally, and you may get a couple girls in the process. KeN From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 29 00:38:02 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA24533 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 00:37:49 GMT Received: from fnord@teleport.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24297) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA24295 for ; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 00:33:50 GMT Received: from radius1.teleport.com (radius1.teleport.com [192.108.254.35]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA12062 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:34:23 -0800 Received: from teleport.com (pdx44-a48-07.teleport.com [204.202.165.213]) by radius1.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA04858 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:34:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <351D9859.7A8D1F78@teleport.com> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:39:54 -0800 From: Nick X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] new stretch? References: <155ff85d.351d5b60@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey kickers- Just wanted to drop a line to the group to tell you all about a new stretch I've been doing before I kick. It's kind of a "hard" stretch, meaning that if you over do it you could hurt yourself, but it's a great stretch for the outside of your calves, especially if you get shin splints (like I do). This is it: Stand with your feet shoulder-width apart roll your feet outwards- in other words, let your ankle bend sideways so that you are standing on the outside surfaces of your feet (wear those old, loose lavers, so that they slide on your foot somewhat, this part isn't supposed to be too difficult). You should be more or less comfortable standing like this if your shoes are nice and loose, and your toes should point straight forward. Next- bend your knees! Just a little, but don't lock your knees or this could hurt your joints in the long run. Finally- bend forward from the waist- slowly, and not too far (something like the short formal Japanese bow) and hold your body there. You may want to do it in front of a chair or table to lean on so that you don't go too far, which hurts. Hold it for fifteen seconds and reverse the steps. You should feel a powerful stretch of the tendon on the rear-outside of your calf from below the knee down to the ankle. Do it a few times, and when you stand up normally again, your outside will feel remarkably loose. Seems to help me drill shin-pounding moves without getting splints (okay, it takes longer for me to get the splints, anyway). Tell me if you have any success with this. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 29 02:29:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA24838 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 02:29:29 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24797) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA24795 for ; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 02:24:22 GMT Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13271 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 18:24:56 -0800 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id ODMBa11407 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 21:24:14 -0500 (EST) From: StinKyKiwi Message-ID: <34af6f9e.351db0d1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 21:24:14 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] move name Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org fellow shredders! With all this discussion going on, I thought this might be a good time to join in. Im hitting most all the three add moves after playing now for 4 months. BUT, I just haven't been able to hit pdox mirages.Josh C told me to work on them by trying pdox leg-overs(a move we don't even know exists), CLIP>SAME OUT [DEX]>SAME TOE. I hit those almost every time now. any tips on getting the pdox mirages down? Im slowly moving into the 4 add territory, and really want to get this one down. It looks like one of those moves that once you get, its easy as hell. take it easy, and shred some Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 29 02:44:43 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA24938 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 02:44:37 GMT Received: from jsbx@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (24906) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA24904 for ; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 02:41:31 GMT Received: from imo30.mx.aol.com (imo30.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.74]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13600 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 18:42:04 -0800 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo30.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OKSZa10942 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 21:41:29 -0500 (EST) From: JSBX Message-ID: <1355f746.351db4db@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 21:41:29 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] can of worms Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everyone! I haven't been on this list for more than 6 months, so I missed the great debate about paradox moves. Still, I have seen a lot of questions/references to paradox moves that simply aren't paradox. Some guy mentioned paradox around the world, but that move doesn't exist. CLIP>same in>same toe is just a clipper set around the world. For it to be paradox, you would have to delay with the foot that doesn't set. Matt "stinkykiwi" asked about help for paradox mirages and mentioned paradox leg overs, as CLIP>SAME OUT [DEX]>SAME TOE. I am glad he mentioned that he wasn't sure if this move exists, since the paradox motion has to involve and in to out dex, never an out to in one, and again, the delay has to be with the non-setting foot. If the dex set from the same side clipper isn't in to out, or the foot is planted, then the body add can't be justified. Considering how i am relatively new to this, and can only do two paradox moves, maybe somebody more knowledgable should back up/refute my logic. Sorry to open it up. K From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 29 03:08:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA25249 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 03:08:38 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (25203) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA25201 for ; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 03:06:24 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA13901 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 19:06:58 -0800 Received: from [207.79.78.21] (brat1.atext.com [207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA25198; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 03:06:21 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1355f746.351db4db@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 19:07:46 -0800 To: JSBX From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] can of worms Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 6:41 PM -0800 3/28/98, JSBX wrote: >Still, I have seen a lot of questions/references >to paradox moves that simply aren't paradox. It's not really a can of worms. Just about everyone agrees on what paradox really means; people just have a hard time giving a simple definition. Correct -- there is no paradox around-the-world (Alex was drudging up an old example I had given during the great paradox debate of '96) and of course there's no paradox legover. Here's the standard message I send every few months to the list when this issue comes up: ===== WHAT IS PARADOX? The first thing to do to understand "paradox" is to look at one of the basic paradox moves and see exactly how it differs from the "non-paradox" version of the same move. In this case, we'll compare "mirage" with "paradox mirage". For the purposes of this discussion, consider "mirage" from a "clipper" set. That is: clip > op in dex > op toe "mirage" (from clipper set) Concretely, let's say you set the bag straight up, out of your right clipper delay. To do a "mirage", you would then plant your right foot (the one that just did the clipper set), and jump over the bag with your left leg (we call this an "in-out" dexterity), catching the bag on the toe of your right foot. Now, the "paradox" version of the same mirage would be have exactly the same ending, (i.e., in-out dexterity to opposite toe) but with the *other* leg doing the initial clipper set. In other words, instead of setting the exact same left-leg in-out dexterity using your right clipper, you start out with a set from your LEFT clipper. This makes the move APPRECIABLY HARDER: clip > SAME in dex > op toe "paradox mirage" Why is it harder? Well, this is the essence of "paradox", and I'll get to it below. Try to do this yourself and I think you'll see it is harder. [Instruction: The standard way to hit a paradox mirage is not to plant the setting foot (since that just makes the timing harder). Instead, you do a set, and IMMEDIATELY "snake" your setting leg out from behind the leg you set with (this implies that paradox moves are always set from a cross-body, because it's the snaking motion that partly defines what a paradox is) and without planting you throw the leg over the bag from in to out. Then you do the delay on your opposite toe. Consider that since the motion was "in-out", you had to really get your leg around the bag when doing the dexterity. This is *part* of what makes the move harder than the non-paradox version of the same move.] So for this example, "paradox mirage" is considered the "paradox" version of "mirage" because, technically, it is a mirage, except that it is *harder* because of set is from the "wrong clipper"! ****** Therein lies the paradox -- in freestyle footbag, it has always been the common thinking that "the set doesn't affect the difficulty". But we all know it does for "paradox" moves. ****** So the essence of "paradox" is that, by changing the set from one side to the other, but keeping the rest of the move the same, you make the move appreciably harder to execute. This is not true of *all* moves -- just of those moves that *are* harder as a result of the set. [For the sake of this explanation, assume that paradox only makes sense for "cross-body" (or "clipper") sets.] There is nothing in the *basic* definition of "paradox" that implies anything about whether a dexterity is "in-out" or "out-in". In other words, there are paradox versions of out-in dexterity moves, just as with in-out moves; for example, "paradox reverse-mirage". However, there is a class of moves starting with a clipper set for which the difficulty of executing the move is *not* appreciably different for *either* side set. Such moves generally involve OUT-IN dexterities, but that's a red herring. The fact is that "paradox" *doesn't* mean "set from the opposite clipper from the regular move"... People frequently try to define "paradox" in a way where it stands alone, instead of in simpler terms of the non-paradox versions of the same move. Here is a simple way to look at "paradox": "Paradox" as a term only makes sense when used to describe a move that is more difficult than, but otherwise identical to another move -- wherein the difference is entirely attributed to the *set*. Furthermore, the set for a paradox move is always from the cross-body position. That said, the actual determination of which moves are harder because of the different cross-body set is the ultimate issue behind the "great paradox debate". Suffice it to say that, in general, if the move doesn't *require* the "double-hip-pivot" to execute, it's not paradox but rather just the other-side set. Examples of moves that *can't* be made "paradox" are: butterfly, switch-over, leg-over, and swirl. (This is not an exhaustive list.) Paul Munger sent out a reasonably good list of criteria for whether or not a move is paradox. This tutorial is not meant to propose any standard for measuring such, but rather to give the reader a basic understanding of the concept. The rest of this tutorial gets into the contentious issues around why paradox moves are "appreciably harder". You can skip it if you don't care. It is not intended to stimulate discussion or argument, but to simply orient the reader as to the issues involved. Most advanced freestylers agree that the paradox mirage is harder than the mirage for a couple of reasons: "paradox mirage" is harder than "mirage" because: (1) you have to "snake" your setting leg out from the cross-body position quickly and precisely in order to get back under the bag for the initial dexterity; (2) you have to really pivot your hips (more than usual) to perform the move -- first in one direction, then in the other. Therefore, in the current difficulty-rating system, a "paradox" move is awarded an extra "body" add (for the double-hip-pivot). You can probably see that this is a contentious issue -- since most players believe paradox moves are harder than their non-paradox counterparts, really defining why is important. The "double-hip-pivot" standard is not particularly well accepted and people frequently come up with moves that don't fit this standard but which they believe are paradox. We won't address these cases in this tutorial. Further, certain spinning (or gyrating) moves are thought of as "taking the place" of paradox in most cases. It is important that you understand that spins or gyrations don't necessarily "negate" paradox -- they don't "cancel it out". They simply "subsume" it. If you think back to the earlier description of paradox mirage, it's the "snaking dexterity motion" and the "body" hip-pivot required to hit the move that make it "paradox" as a result of setting from the "wrong side" and going the "long way around the bag". Spinning or gyrating is just another such added level of difficulty... A good example is "vortex". At first glimpse, "vortex" looks like a "gyrating paradox drifter". But this is not correct; "vortex" is a "gyrating drifter" (non-paradox). The reason is simple: the spin of the gyrating motion is a "body" motion; once the spin is complete the remaining work is very similar to the work required to hit a drifter from the "simple" set. The spin made the move harder, not the same-side set. (This gets into the argument about switching feet in spins/gyros; I will leave that for a separate thread.) ======= Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 29 04:32:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA25580 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 04:32:37 GMT Received: from allman144@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (25546) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.35]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA25544 for ; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 04:28:20 GMT Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id BKNBa07817 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 23:28:18 -0500 (EST) From: Allman144 Message-ID: <5d89a80f.351dcde4@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 23:28:18 EST To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Footbags! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 72 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone. Today I was in Champs sporting goods store and I was at the check out line. I look down at the rack and I saw footbags! Not the crocheted ones, real ones! I about flipped! They had two Adidas ones, I can't remember which ones though. One of them has a picture of Alexi Lalas with it and the other one had Kenny Shults on it. I seriously couldn't believe it. Has anyone else seen these? I also noticed that the price was very very low. They were both around $10! How long have these been on sale in stores? I think that this is great for the sport, everyone agree? Kick on! Tony Glick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 30 17:49:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00439 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:46:18 GMT Received: from vernd@geotrac.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (307) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00305 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:28:27 GMT Received: from mail.accnorwalk.com (mail.accnorwalk.com [207.87.221.24]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07221 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:29:10 -0800 Received: from vernd.geotrac.com ([207.87.222.34]) by mail.accnorwalk.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release 0122 ID# 564-48782U3500L350S0) with SMTP id AAA151 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:31:41 -0500 Received: by vernd.geotrac.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BD5BD7.283685C0@vernd.geotrac.com>; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:27:08 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD5BD7.283685C0@vernd.geotrac.com> From: Vern DeHaven To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] RE: Footbags! Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:27:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Allman144 >They had two Adidas ones, I can't remember >which ones though. One of them has a picture of Alexi Lalas with it and the >other one had Kenny Shults on it. I seriously couldn't believe it. Has anyone >else seen these? I also noticed that the price was very very low. They were >both around $10! How long have these been on sale in stores? I think that this >is great for the sport, everyone agree? Kick on! I bought one of those bags last year at Champs, mainly so I could have just one picture of Kenny (he's pegged up on my board, a little shrine one might say :) They're pretty nice for the bucks, and great in wet weather when your facile bag crawls into one of your socks to hide from you. At the same time, I was able to pick up 8 Sipa-Sipas for less than 2 dollars a piece! I guess Champs will only sell Adidas bags; the Sipas were there from when Koenig Sporting Goods owned the place. I could actually afford to give someone who joined our circle out of curiosity, "spreading the word" so to speak. Great deal! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 31 01:56:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA03942 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 01:56:26 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2050) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02047 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 21:26:29 GMT Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.40]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA12075 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:26:42 -0800 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OOUCa14951 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 16:25:46 -0500 (EST) From: StinKyKiwi Message-ID: <7b8689b4.35200ddc@aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 16:25:46 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] just an idea Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sup! I was wondering today, how I could maybe do my share for the freestyle community. Heres my idea. Tell me what you think. I have had to ask a lot of times on this list about some tips on hitting moves. If this info was available to anyone trying to move through the ranks, Im sure it would help there game. I could maintain a page, listed with most of the moves, linked up with suggestions that you all could send when ever you had some time. At least I can admit...I've gotten a lot better with the suggestions you've made, and I was hoping to make it more available to other shredders. Man do I come up with some waked up ideas, but I kinda like this one. try not to chew me up too much:) take it easy, Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 31 01:56:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA03977 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 01:56:32 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2393) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02391 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 22:03:49 GMT Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA12812 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:04:21 -0800 Received: from [207.208.136.54] (d54.focal.interaccess.com [207.208.136.54]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id PAA10933; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:57:09 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:57:09 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Steve Miskiewicz" , Freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Move? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Steve! > Well I doubt this one is listed. I figured this one out when I was >kicking around yesterday. I like to call it a twisted (or broken) ankle. >First do a outside stall(right or left leg). Then lower your foot onto >the ground with the footbag still on top(you will probably have to move >your leg out farther from your body to keep the outside surface of your >foot strait). Then transfer your weight to the foot you have stalled on. >After that spin your body away from the new supporting foot until both >feet are next to each other(looks like how ballet dancer stand). Then >roll the bag from the outside stall to the foot you just spun (when >rolling the bag tilt your foot with the outside stall up and when the >bag touches the opp. foot roll that foot onto its side). You should end >up in a stance that is the same as the end of a walk over. Well thats >it. Man that turned out to be alot more writting than I expected. That's an Evan Bozette Special! Where is Evan? Last I heard he was in Oklahoma, that was at least 3 years ago... Where did that bad boy of shred go to? I don't think he ever named it, I think "Broken Ankle" is a kind of "break your leg" sort of omen-like name that Evan would have liked. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 31 01:56:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04001 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 01:56:36 GMT Received: from reaelec@enter.net () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3470) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA03468 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 00:45:57 GMT Received: from mail.enter.net (root@mail.enter.net [204.170.70.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15668 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 16:46:43 -0800 Received: from usrx2P-1-51.enter.net (usrx2P-1-51.enter.net [204.170.81.180]) by mail.enter.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA13590 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 19:46:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by usrx2P-1-51.enter.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD5C14.3D8E9E20@usrx2P-1-51.enter.net>; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 19:44:23 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD5C14.3D8E9E20@usrx2P-1-51.enter.net> From: Ralph Allebach To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Different models of the Rod Lavers? Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:19:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org How's it going, I'm new here at this discussion. I've been involved in footbag for a = little while, just not in the mainstream if you want to call it that. I = recently bought a pair of Rod Lavers that I had heard so much about. I = was disappointed though. The ones I bought did not look anything like = the ones I had seen on the internet. They said Rod Laver on them but = they were different in texture and in color. They were made of = something like nylon and the bag slid all over them. It was a lot = harder to land stalls. Are there different models of the Rod Lavers? = I'd really like it somebody unconfused me. Thanks a lot for listening. God Bless From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 31 17:05:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA08639 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:05:00 GMT Received: from bsimoes@email.mc.ti.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7964) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA07962 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:03:01 GMT Received: from dragon.ti.com (news.ti.com [192.94.94.33]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24647 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:03:58 -0800 Received: from atmail2.mc.ti.com ([157.87.12.98]) by dragon.ti.com (8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA05203 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 09:03:27 -0600 (CST) Received: by atmail2.mc.ti.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:03:26 -0500 Message-ID: <9975D296BADDD011AB0700805FFEEF180186A45D@atmail2.mc.ti.com> From: "Simoes, Brian" To: StinKyKiwi Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] just an idea Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:03:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Matt, I'm not sure if this is the type of thing that you had in mind but, in my opinion, this is the best site (that I've found) that describes the various freestyle moves...the stick figure drawings also go a long way in helping to understand the moves. I've found other, description only sites, but many of the moves are hard to envision just from words...Hope this helps: http://www.eatel.net/~ratcliff/mainmenu.htm Keep kickin', Brian From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 31 17:05:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA08628 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:04:58 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8425) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA08423 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:27:12 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f53.hotmail.com [207.82.251.40]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA25794 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 08:28:10 -0800 Received: (qmail 16552 invoked by uid 0); 31 Mar 1998 16:27:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19980331162739.16551.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.148.99.112 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 08:27:39 PST X-Originating-IP: [204.148.99.112] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] just an idea Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 08:27:39 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org StinKyKiwi wrote: >I could maintain a page, listed with most of the moves, >linked up with suggestions that you all could send when >ever you had some time. Great idea! In addition to suggestions by players on the list, you could use the suggestions printed in Footbag World. This would be a tremendous help for beginners and pros alike. I commend you StinKyKiwi. DanK P.S. I think a little baby powder would help you with your "problem." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 31 20:06:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA09672 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:06:13 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9500) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA09498 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:37:56 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f38.hotmail.com [207.82.250.49]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA28970 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 11:38:56 -0800 Received: (qmail 4734 invoked by uid 0); 31 Mar 1998 19:38:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19980331193824.4731.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.58 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 11:38:24 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.58] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Oh no, not more move questions! Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 11:38:24 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I've got a question for everyone. My swirls have always bugged me, probably because I can't do them, at least not from a clipper set. I can swirl from flapper stall, or a whirling swirl, or even butterfly swirl, but when ever I try to swirl from clipper set I just smack the bag with my foot, or throw it away trying to set it. This has just reeeeeally been bugging me lately as I try to do more moves with swirls in them. Any advice? -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 31 20:06:38 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA09687 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:06:17 GMT Received: from derric@dallasfootbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9585) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA09583 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:53:56 GMT Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29298 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 11:54:56 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA29823 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:54:22 -0600 (CST) Received: from fit.netcomi.com(204.58.155.64) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma029796; Tue Mar 31 13:53:55 1998 Message-ID: <351FF93E.583F@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:57:50 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] pixie stuff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have a question about the names of moves involving a pixie set. From my nuderstanding, a pixie butterfly, pixie osis, or pixie mirage would all involve a pixie set followed by a butterfly, osis, or mirage with the *other* leg doing the dex. What if the *same* leg does the pixie and the dex. Is that just called pixie same side butterfly, or has someone made up a groovy name for "pixie same side"? I used to think this concept was called tapping until someone straightened me out on that. Just wondering... -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 31 22:20:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA10885 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:20:35 GMT Received: from anaro@sas.upenn.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10793) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA10791 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:10:07 GMT Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (anaro@MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA32451 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:11:07 -0800 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/SAS.04) id RAA24029; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:11:03 -0500 (EST) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Message-Id: <199803312211.RAA24029@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] pixie stuff To: derric@dallasfootbag.org Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:11:03 -0500 (EST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <351FF93E.583F@dallasfootbag.org> from "Derric Scalf" at Mar 30, 98 01:57:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I have a question about the names of moves involving a pixie set. From > my nuderstanding, a pixie butterfly, pixie osis, or pixie mirage would > all involve a pixie set followed by a butterfly, osis, or mirage with > the *other* leg doing the dex. What if the *same* leg does the pixie > and the dex. Is that just called pixie same side butterfly, or has > someone made up a groovy name for "pixie same side"? I used to think > this concept was called tapping until someone straightened me out on > that. Just wondering... >From what I've heard: Pixie same side mirage = Torrage Pixie same side butterfly = Parkwalk Pixie same side around the world = Magellan Later, Alex From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 31 22:20:50 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA10906 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:20:38 GMT Received: from bag@multi35.netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (10814) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA10812 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:10:17 GMT Received: from multi35.netcomi.com (multi35.netcomi.com [204.58.155.235]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA32467 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:11:18 -0800 Received: (from bag@localhost) by multi35.netcomi.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id QAA11769; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:11:07 -0600 Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (anaro@MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by multi35.netcomi.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA11762 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:11:05 -0600 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/SAS.04) id RAA24029; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:11:03 -0500 (EST) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Message-Id: <199803312211.RAA24029@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] pixie stuff Old-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:11:03 -0500 (EST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <351FF93E.583F@dallasfootbag.org> from "Derric Scalf" at Mar 30, 98 01:57:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop: forwarded by derric@dallasfootbag.org To: scalf@utdallas.edu Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I have a question about the names of moves involving a pixie set. From > my nuderstanding, a pixie butterfly, pixie osis, or pixie mirage would > all involve a pixie set followed by a butterfly, osis, or mirage with > the *other* leg doing the dex. What if the *same* leg does the pixie > and the dex. Is that just called pixie same side butterfly, or has > someone made up a groovy name for "pixie same side"? I used to think > this concept was called tapping until someone straightened me out on > that. Just wondering... >From what I've heard: Pixie same side mirage = Torrage Pixie same side butterfly = Parkwalk Pixie same side around the world = Magellan Later, Alex From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 31 22:20:55 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA10872 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:20:32 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (9997) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA09995 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:32:44 GMT Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA30056 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:33:43 -0800 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OEEEa05947 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:33:08 -0500 (EST) From: StinKyKiwi Message-ID: <1120463e.35215306@aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:33:08 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Oh no, not more move questions! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yet another I saw Genz do something like this in shredded wheat and couldnt find it on the move list. The notation might be a little off. TOE>OP OUT [DEX]>SAME OUT [DEX]>OP SWIRL [DEX]>SAME CLIP is that 6 or 5 adds?