From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 1 00:18:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA01854 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 00:18:50 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1811) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA01809 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 00:16:12 GMT Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.155]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10076; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:16:15 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OOMEa02916; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:16:01 -0500 (EST) From: Nageylum Message-ID: <377e0e8b.34f8a8c3@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:16:01 EST To: jpenney@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] terminology Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 98-02-28 17:06:14 EST, jpenney@footbag.org writes: << this is slowly turning into the 'quest for the sickest moves' and I have something to put in (of course) : >> I too will throw my one cent in; a ducking symposium paradox whirl. this little one may not be as hard as some of josh's but i have a fun time trying it, and i manage to almost kick myself in the face, and people say footbag isn't dangerous. Josh C. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 1 04:19:46 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA02959 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 04:19:39 GMT Received: from jsbx@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2913) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA02911 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 04:13:18 GMT Received: from imo22.mail.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.150]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13290 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:13:23 -0800 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OVMBa09339 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:13:17 -0500 (EST) From: JSBX Message-ID: <6973b1c8.34f8e05f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:13:17 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] full contact Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey kickers! Josh Childs mentioned some move he tries to nail that results is him almost kicking himself in the face, and then said that most people think footbag isn't dangerous. Aside from the standard fare of shin splints and back pains, here is a List of injuries i have seen/experienced: *kicked in the neck by a friend when I tried neck stalling and he tried kicking *seen a guy trying to pendulum kick someone behind him *me. atom smasher. locked legs. mid air. kissing pavement. *some of my friends have been kicked out of the air by overzealous kickers while trying to eclipse *my rakes are still inconsistent, but whenever one 6 foot friend of mine is across from me in a circle, my rakes nail him tween the eyes every time. It's a skill. *when doing multiple pendulums, my later ones (ok ok, the third one, once the fourth) are not as well placed or i don't have the proper momentum, so i overcompensate and have felt the sole of my right laver firmly against the back of my head. Only once was it strong enough to hurt. the other times it just scared me. But hey, freestylers are resilient. Rock the catskills! keN From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 2 08:44:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA00193 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:43:35 GMT Received: from jsbx@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2725) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA02723 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:49:55 GMT Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31435 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:50:00 -0800 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OBNZa09366 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:48:21 -0500 (EST) From: JSBX Message-ID: <31811c5a.34fa3a17@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:48:21 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] freestyle: pain Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey kickers! Josh Childs mentioned some move he tries to nail that results in him almost kicking himself in the face, and then said that most people think footbag isn't dangerous. Aside from the standard fare of shin splints and back pains, here is a List of injuries i have seen/experienced: *kicked in the neck by a friend when I tried neck stalling and he tried kicking *seen a guy trying to pendulum kick someone behind him *me. atom smasher. locked legs. mid air. kissing pavement. *some of my friends have been kicked out of the air by overzealous kickers while trying to eclipse *my rakes are still inconsistent, but whenever one 6 foot friend of mine is across from me in a circle, my rakes nail him tween the eyes every time. It's a skill. *when doing multiple pendulums, my later ones (ok ok, the third one, once the fourth) are not as well placed or i don't have the proper momentum, so i overcompensate and have felt the sole of my right laver firmly against the back of my head. Only once was it strong enough to hurt. the other times it just scared me. But hey, freestylers are resilient. Rock the catskills! keN From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 2 16:37:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00528 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:35:55 GMT Received: from schr4160@tao.sou.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (358) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA00356 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:27:52 GMT Received: from TAO.sou.edu (Tao.sou.edu [140.211.92.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA03060 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:27:53 -0800 Received: from 206.151.159.15 (ip13.sou.mind.net [206.151.159.15]) by TAO.sou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA15212 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:31:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34FA1B6E.4E81@tao.sou.edu> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 02:37:34 +0000 From: "schrodt, forest" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] sick tricks Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. This is my idea for a sick trick. I have never seen anyone try to do anything quite like it and I am not sure exactly how to explain it but here goes my best try. blurry set from left foot, right side > inspin quickly to the right and do a right footed dino or blender to catch the bag. I have allmost done this move from a pixie set instead of the blurry set so I know it is possible. right foot pixie(setting the bag on the left side of the body)> spin sharply right> catch bag into a right foot dino. 6 add move I call the move a "dino soar" :) It is allways fun to hear about new tricks and to try and come up with new huge tricks.Let me know what you think. Forest From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 2 16:38:27 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00554 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:38:27 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (498) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00496 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:35:41 GMT Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA07265 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:35:41 -0800 Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac9.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.149]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA04859 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:35:39 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA22752 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:35:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:35:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199803021635.LAA22752@rac9.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] move consensus Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org wow. kind of seems like there isn't a consensus of move definitions. with regards to history, i always thought the crucial aspect, to contradict steve's statements that defintively the crucial aspect of the gyro is which leg does the dexterity, of the gyro was the retrograde motion required by the desterity. that according to the original gyro concept, a mobius was a spinning torque, not a gyro, because there was no change in spin direction in the move. as there is in gyro-butterfly, or 'original gyro.' but history is bunk, as I have learned from the evolution of terminology. My apologies for any offense, Scott, if by not going into the history of the duck and dve that it seemed like I disrespected their originator. I did knwo the reality- my mentioning Eric and Kenny were due to their relating to the particular moves I asked about, moves that I personally have only seen them hit. The move i was wondiering if there was a name for was the notion of a mirage dexterity preceeding a duck within a move. Like a mirage-duck set concept. As for dives and ducks not being unique, i woul dsay that this is the case from the footbags point of view, just don't tell that to my neck when i m doing the moves. to me the notion is the same as paradox mirage versus regular mirage- a dive has a much smaller window and requires a shift in body momentum for the head's dexterity, which i believe are the same criteria for the paradox add. I will say i don't think dive deserves an extra add over regular duck, but to me a dive is very much a unique move from a duck headed in the same direction. no pun intended, though happily found. looks like i cam to work today with a can opener... l8r- vince From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 2 18:35:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01294 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:35:12 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1181) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01179 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:18:09 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.126]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09966 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:18:09 -0800 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA212022683; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:18:03 -0600 Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:18:03 -0600 (CST) From: Sean Wingert To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #343 In-Reply-To: <199803012350.XAA01591@eniac.yak.net.taz> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Nageylum wrote: > Ducking Paradox Symposium Whirl This is a great move, and Nagey is right, it isn't as hard as it seems. I've hit it two or three times on my right side (bailing to osis next) only, but wouldn't infinity DPSW's be cool? :-) Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 2 20:23:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02173 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:23:29 GMT Received: from jpenney@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2013) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02011 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 19:50:25 GMT Received: from hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12343 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:50:25 -0800 Received: from sara (nyc-ny73-59.ix.netcom.com [209.109.227.187]) by hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (8.8.5/george96) with SMTP id OAA11819 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:54:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980228145506.007ac7a0@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> X-Sender: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:55:06 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Big Fat Josh Penney Subject: Re: [freestyle] move consensus In-Reply-To: <199803021635.LAA22752@rac9.wam.umd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:35 AM 3/2/98 -0500, you wrote: >The move i was wondiering if there was a name for was the notion of a >mirage dexterity preceeding a duck within a move. Like a mirage-duck set >concept. Seen Eric do it. He calls blurry-ducking-butterfly a "Ripped Warrior". I myself have been working on reverse miraging, diving eclipse from toe. Well, I've been thinking about it. >As for dives and ducks not being unique, just don't tell that to my neck when >i'm doing the moves. Hear, hear. >to me the notion is the same as paradox mirage versus regular mirage- >a dive has a much smaller window and requires a shift in body momentum >for the head's dexterity, which i believe are the same criteria for the >paradox add. I will say i don't think dive deserves an extra add over >regular duck, but to me a dive is very much a unique move from a duck headed in >the same direction. no pun intended, though happily found. I feel similarly, butnot for the same reason. I don't think it's harder to duck vs. dive in regards to windows/timing but I do feel they are different only because they feel really differnt, like mirage against reverse mirage. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 2 20:23:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA02186 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:23:31 GMT Received: from jsbx@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2074) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02072 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:06:02 GMT Received: from imo21.mail.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.148]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12680 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:06:04 -0800 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OWORa01472 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:05:37 -0500 (EST) From: JSBX Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:05:37 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] paradox Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey guys! Th recent terminology thread has been helpful. I have a question about paradox, can you plant the setting leg before doing the dex? Or does that not make it paradox? Also, after reading all the ducking and diving stuff, i tried my first ducks today and hit ducking butterfly stall a bunch of times. diving is way harder for me, i jsut set, go to the other side and watch the bag fall as i get confused. Oh well, one day I will hopefully laugh about it as I hit peek-ing duck. KeN! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 2 21:45:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02817 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 21:45:26 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2566) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02564 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 21:18:31 GMT Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA14409; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:18:32 -0800 Received: from [207.208.137.234] (d104.focal2.interaccess.com [207.208.137.104]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id PAA22744; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:18:07 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:18:07 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Big Fat Josh Penney , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [freestyle] move consensus Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Josh and Freestylers! >>to me the notion is the same as paradox mirage versus regular mirage- >>a dive has a much smaller window and requires a shift in body momentum >>for the head's dexterity, which i believe are the same criteria for the >>paradox add. I will say i don't think dive deserves an extra add over >>regular duck, but to me a dive is very much a unique move from a duck >headed in >>the same direction. no pun intended, though happily found. > >I feel similarly, butnot for the same reason. I don't think it's harder to >duck vs. dive in regards to windows/timing but I do feel they are different >only because they feel really differnt, like mirage against reverse mirage. The reason for the "no difference" on Dive vs. Duck moves is mostly for the same reason as the "no difference" on upper body unusual surfaces (i.e. your face is one unusual surface, not divisible by "L Temple" ,'R temple', 'chin', 'nose', etc...) which was done because of the name of the sport. "Foot"bag, not "upper body" bag. Hence the different directions of the "upper body dexterity" is seen as the same. That's how I remember it. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 2 22:50:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03365 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:50:20 GMT Received: from grandincredible@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3037) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03035 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:15:04 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f56.hotmail.com [207.82.250.142]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA15884 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:15:01 -0800 Received: (qmail 24802 invoked by uid 0); 2 Mar 1998 22:14:38 -0000 Message-ID: <19980302221438.24801.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.249.188.156 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Mar 1998 14:14:37 PST X-Originating-IP: [38.249.188.156] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] duck, duck, goose Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 14:14:37 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org For those who think dives are harder than ducks: Certainly there is more head movement in dives than ducks, but diving allows you to maintain eye contact much longer than ducks. Ducking requires almost 100% peripheral vision, while diving gives you a nice full view of the bag for half the move. Neither is harder than the other, just different. Dan Kramer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 3 07:16:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA06692 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 07:16:16 GMT Received: from enlightener@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3502) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03500 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 23:11:23 GMT Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16900 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:11:25 -0800 Received: from [207.208.137.234] (d104.focal2.interaccess.com [207.208.137.104]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id RAA18914; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:11:00 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:11:00 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Daniel Kramer" , freestyle@footbag.org From: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter) Subject: Re: [freestyle] duck, duck, goose Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! >For those who think dives are harder than ducks: > >Certainly there is more head movement in dives than ducks, but diving >allows you to maintain eye contact much longer than ducks. Ducking >requires almost 100% peripheral vision, while diving gives you a nice >full view of the bag for half the move. Neither is harder than the >other, just different. ... Just not different enough (and involving enough of the legs) to be rewarded "unique move" status. See yA! Scott. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 3 07:16:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA06679 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 07:16:13 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3438) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03436 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 23:00:45 GMT Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.40]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16820; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:00:47 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OISQa28606; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:59:01 -0500 (EST) From: Nageylum Message-ID: <64ba6437.34fb39b7@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:59:01 EST To: jpenney@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] move consensus Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey, with all the talk about dex befor ducks/dives, i've been working on this little ditty, and hit a few times, from what i make it's a pixie diving butterfly, feels way cool when i hit it, but i tend to wack the bag with my face some times due to lack of set height. that one cent i save, i gave away Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 3 07:18:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA06733 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 07:18:07 GMT Received: from jpenney@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4604) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04602 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 01:13:23 GMT Received: from hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17599 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:13:26 -0800 Received: from sara (nyc-ny65-22.ix.netcom.com [209.109.224.214]) by hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (8.8.5/george96) with SMTP id UAA03503 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:17:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980228201628.007abeb0@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> X-Sender: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:16:28 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Big Fat Josh Penney Subject: Re: [freestyle] move consensus In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I sed: >>I don't think it's harder to >>duck vs. dive in regards to windows/timing but I do feel they are different >>only because they feel really differnt, like mirage against reverse mirage. Scott sed: >The reason for the "no difference" on Dive vs. Duck moves is mostly for the >same reason as the "no difference" on upper body unusual surfaces (i.e. >your face is one unusual surface, not divisible by "L Temple" ,'R temple', >'chin', 'nose', etc...) which was done because of the name of the sport. >"Foot"bag, not "upper body" bag. Hence the different directions of the >"upper body dexterity" is seen as the same. That doesn't quite 'cut it' for me. From what you said, Scott, I could infer that any thing not directly involved between feet and footbag is practically invalid; is this what you mean? If, in competition, I saw someone delay a bag on their chin, *and* I were counting adds or delays or whatever it is 'head stall' falls under then we might find some discrepancy on my card; that's gotta be difficult as anything.. I'm not saying this is anything like kicking tha bag up and backflipping or cartwheeling or singing a little song or screaming the word "Boom!" at the judges and scaring the beejezus out of the judges. I maintain that stalling on your chin and head (or duck vs.dive as tha case may be) are difficult, individually distinct moves. Now, you might not put that in your little rulebook but that's how I feel. JP ps. As far as I know, there's only one guy out there who plays "Footbag".. the rest of us are playing "Feetbag", and the way freestyle is being played now it should *really* be called "Feetandlegsbag". then again, I don't know any "Basesball" or "Basketsball" players so what do I know. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 3 16:00:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00502 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 15:59:41 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7161) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA07159 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:05:29 GMT Received: from stick.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA03135 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 01:05:35 -0800 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA14173 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 03:05:56 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 03:05:54 -0600 (CST) From: Eric Burgess To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] FINALLY!! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org after months of workin' it, i finally hit paradox atom smasher! i've never hit it before, and all the sudden i hit it and played out guiltlessly...and next time i got the bag i did the exact same thing :) haven't hit it that 3rd time yet, but now i know it works...now i just need to learn the regular version! a very happy eric burgess From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 3 16:00:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA00515 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 15:59:44 GMT Received: from rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (280) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00278 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 15:20:03 GMT Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA06235 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 07:20:01 -0800 Received: from rac10.wam.umd.edu (rvbpaco@rac10.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.150]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA26443 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:19:56 -0500 (EST) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac10.wam.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA16677 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:19:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:19:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199803031519.KAA16677@rac10.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] dives vs ducks, and paradox Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org someone asked if planting during execution of a paradox eliminates the paradox add. t most people it does, except in the instances where the move is a dexterity done in paradox and symposium style. the reasoning relates to the notion that an add is given for paradox, and any justification for the greater difficulty in the add ratio usually involves shifts of body momentum, which is vastly easier with a plant. with a plant the body momentum can be adjusted by simply turning the body. i'm guessing that the IFAB decision on ducks and dives is that there are precisely two such unique moves total- a head under bag moving left, and a head under bag moving right. so a dive on the left is the same thing as a duck to the right. relating this to dexterities of the legs, there are four unique around the worlds that end on a toe stall. each direction performed by each leg. so the argument of the on-unique duck versus dive is actually a result of the notion, er, reality, that everyone has only one neck and head to duck with. of course the actual execution of a duck or dive is more dependent on the' foot motion and weight distribution on each side of the body than the actual motion of the head. so from the standpoint of feet, unlike upper body delays, ducks and dives could be seen as unique moves per body side. where a dive on the left i diffferent from a dive on the right, and are each differnet from each of the unique ducks. of course, within the context of unique moves, this is really unnecessary- a move is unique if any add component is different, so it's simple enough to just end a ducking move on a different surface to make a unique move. having on ly two possible unique duck-like moves makes for a greater challenge for the creation of unique moves. the question i would like answered ishow are ducks and dives viewed on the body cards? and weren't these moves also called headphones at the 95 xmas jam? or was it 94? later- vince From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 4 22:07:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03262 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 22:05:25 GMT Received: from kaplanb@mscd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2307) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02305 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 20:25:31 GMT Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA05991 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:25:33 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-9 #24550) with SMTP id <0EPB00G019Z87F@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:23:32 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 13:23:32 -0700 (MST) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] Name that trick! To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What do you call a double around the world, from a toe set, into an osis? I hit it last week and I'm getting it fairly regularly, though not as controlled as I'd like, and it would be nice to have something to call it by. Also, how many adds would it be? Is a blender 3 or 4 adds and does paradoxing it only add 1 more? A friend and I were arguing over torque adds as well. He said 3, I said 4, which witch is which. Thanky kindly, Brad. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 5 07:10:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA07076 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 07:10:18 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7017) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA07015 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 07:01:14 GMT Received: from stick.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17981 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 23:01:19 -0800 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA21560; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 01:01:29 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 01:01:28 -0600 (CST) From: Eric Burgess To: KAPLAN BRADLEY M cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Name that trick! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i think the first trick you describe is a double-pixie osis. sounds like 5 adds to me. blender is definitely 4 adds (dex, spin, xbod, del) and the paradox version is 5. torque is the same 4 adds as blender. eric On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, KAPLAN BRADLEY M wrote: > What do you call a double around the world, from a toe set, into an > osis? I hit it last week and I'm getting it fairly regularly, though not > as controlled as I'd like, and it would be nice to have something to call > it by. Also, how many adds would it be? > Is a blender 3 or 4 adds and does paradoxing it only add 1 more? A > friend and I were arguing over torque adds as well. He said 3, I said 4, > which witch is which. > > Thanky kindly, > Brad. > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 5 16:28:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00561 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:26:58 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (393) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00391 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:54:17 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f74.hotmail.com [207.82.250.180]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA24271 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 07:54:17 -0800 Received: (qmail 13424 invoked by uid 0); 5 Mar 1998 15:54:17 -0000 Message-ID: <19980305155417.13423.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.50 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 05 Mar 1998 07:54:16 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.50] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Name that trick! Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 07:54:16 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "What do you call a double around the world, from a toe set, into an osis? I hit it last week and I'm getting it fairly regularly, though not as controlled as I'd like, and it would be nice to have something to call it by. Also, how many adds would it be? Is a blender 3 or 4 adds and does paradoxing it only add 1 more? A friend and I were arguing over torque adds as well. He said 3, I said 4, which witch is which. Thanky kindly, Brad." Blender 4, paridox blender 5, torque 4. Double around the world into an osis, outside in same osis is Ocean I beileve (4 adds). Inside out double A-T-W to same osis I guess would be double blender (5 I think, it deffinatly deserves it). Inside out double A-T-W opp osis would be double pixi osis (5), and outside in double A-T-W opp osis would be too sick to think about, although I've almost hit it before. That would be like double flux, kind of, any one have a name for it? BTW the add values of common moves (blender, torque) you can usually find in the on line move list. Andrew McCargar, ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 5 17:38:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01030 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:38:17 GMT Received: from 00201887@bigred.unl.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (940) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00938 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:36:25 GMT Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26663 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:36:25 -0800 Received: (from 00201887@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19105; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:35:05 -0600 (CST) From: Theron A Troxel <00201887@bigred.unl.edu> Message-Id: <199803051735.LAA19105@bigred.unl.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Name that trick! To: eric@netcomi.com (Eric Burgess) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:35:03 -0600 (CST) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: from "Eric Burgess" at Mar 5, 98 01:01:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > > > What do you call a double around the world, from a toe set, into an > > osis? I hit it last week and I'm getting it fairly regularly, though not > > as controlled as I'd like, and it would be nice to have something to call > > it by. Also, how many adds would it be? > > Is a blender 3 or 4 adds and does paradoxing it only add 1 more? A > > friend and I were arguing over torque adds as well. He said 3, I said 4, > > which witch is which. > > > Isn't a double around the world to an osis a barroque??? -- --------------------------- @ Theron Troxel \_|_/ UNLFC President | o 00201887@bigred.unl.edu /_\_ http://www.unl.edu/crec/SC/Footbag \ ------------------------------------- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 5 20:00:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01848 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 19:59:59 GMT Received: from hill9361@uidaho.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1793) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01791 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 19:56:01 GMT Received: from eagle.csrv.uidaho.edu (eagle.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.119.141]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29685 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:56:02 -0800 Received: from raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.192.43]) by eagle.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_12836)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA29442; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:55:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA03503; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:55:53 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.csrv.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:55:52 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Hillebrand X-Sender: hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu To: Theron A Troxel <00201887@bigred.unl.edu> cc: Eric Burgess , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Name that trick! In-Reply-To: <199803051735.LAA19105@bigred.unl.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Isn't a double around the world to an osis a barroque??? It is if you do it like a torque (using the opposite leg for the osis). __________________________________________________________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 6 18:41:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01781 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:40:38 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1742) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01740 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:37:52 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f47.hotmail.com [207.82.250.58]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA19190 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:37:44 -0800 Received: (qmail 19231 invoked by uid 0); 6 Mar 1998 18:37:43 -0000 Message-ID: <19980306183743.19230.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.36 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 06 Mar 1998 10:37:42 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.36] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Name that trick! Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 10:37:42 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Isn't a double around the world to an osis a barroque??? "It is if you do it like a torque (using the opposite leg for the osis)." I beiveve that the barroque concept requires a double miraje (in to out dex) to an osis, just like a tork is a miraje to an osis. A double A-T-W (in to out) to opp osis is double pixi osis. On a totally unrelated note, I acually find the notation (clip->opp in[dex]...) easier to understand than peoples discriptions most of the time. However I'm not always sure how to put a move into notation, is there a good on line instruction corse? Andrew McCargar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 6 18:48:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01899 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:48:35 GMT Received: from brat@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1858) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01856 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:47:20 GMT Received: from eniac.yak.net (eniac.Yak.NET [140.174.206.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19451 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:47:20 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.73] ([207.79.78.21]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01853; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:47:04 GMT X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980306183743.19230.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:46:58 -0800 To: "Andrew Feuerdrache" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Talk the Talk (was "Name that trick!") Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andrew McCargar wrote: > On a totally unrelated note, I acually find the notation (clip->opp >in[dex]...) easier to understand than peoples discriptions most of the >time. However I'm not always sure how to put a move into notation, is >there a good on line instruction corse? Here's my 5-minute tutorial. I think it's at least a good starting point. If people have complaints about the system we're using (below), please feel free to suggest ways to improve it... It was originally proposed by Ben Job, who was a computer science student at the University of Colorado. I don't know if he's still on the list; his e-mail recently started bouncing. If you've rejoined, Ben, please let us know!... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Steve's 5-minute tutorial on Job's notation for e-mail freestyle talk: -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is "Blur" in Ben Job's notation, as a point of reference for the rest of the tutorial: clip > op in dex > op in dex > op toe (1) Ben Job realized (and it wasn't so obvious before, believe it or not) that moves basically start with one of two sets: either a toe or a clipper, so each move in his notation is "clip >" or "toe >" meaning "clipper set into" or "toe set into"; and moves basically end with one of two contacts (toe or clipper). So in the case of Blur, the move usually starts with a set out of a clipper delay and ends with a toe.. Hence: "clip > ... > ... toe". (2) The ">" can be read as "into" or "followed by", but is a special symbol because if you say "into" or "followed by" people aren't sure if you mean there's a contact in between or not. The ">" expressly means "without contacting the bag between the things on either side of the > symbol". So when we use ">" we are never talking about "strings" of moves; only about "components" that go into the moves. Hence I tend to refer to each thing after a ">" but before the next ">" as a "component". (3) Ben further noticed that in a huge percentage of the moves (and all of the basic ones), you can easily describe a move in terms of the dexterities involved -- i.e., whether a leg goes "in-out" (mirage-style) around/over the bag, or "out-in" (butterfly-style, reverse-mirage style). To avoid verbosity, these are shortened to just "in" for "in-out" and "out" for "out-in". And the word "dexterity" is shortened to "dex". So in the case of Blur, the notation would give us "... in dex > ... in dex ..." to represent that there are two sequential in-out dexterities in the move. For this tutorial, let's ignore moves like "pogo" and "symposium" and other moves where plants and spins (gyrating, in-spinning, etc.) are significant. They *are* handled by the notation, but it's best to understand the BASIC form of the notation before getting into that stuff, so I'll leave it for another tutorial. (Some of that notation is also open to debate as to whether or not it covers every case.) (4) The only other confusion might be "opposite" versus "same". We decided that, to avoid having to write a move description twice, once for the left side and one for the right, and since people aren't always in agreement about which side is which (don't ask), everything would be "relative". What I mean by "relative" is, when we say "opposite" ("op"), we mean "opposite to the leg/foot referred to just before the ">", and when we say "same", we mean "same as the leg/foot referred to just before the ">". So Blur set from either clipper would be: clip > op in dex > op in dex > op toe (The non-setting foot does the first in-out dexterity; the foot that didn't do that dexterity then does another in-out dexterity; and you catch the bag on the toe of the foot that didn't just do that final dexterity.) (5) Why do we use "relative" meanings for "op" and "same", and not use them to refer to "opposite of setting foot" or "same as setting foot"? The answer is, it really doesn't make a big difference which way we use them, but we have to be consistent and agree to a particular meaning, and most people have accepted the convention in (4) above. I personally think the one we're using now is more sensible, and if you want to spent 1 more minute, read this reasoning. Otherwise, skip it and you're done with the tutorial. Reasoning: if we write everything relative to the setting foot, it confuses the issue for variations on moves (such as "paradox" or "gyrating") where the components are exactly the same, but the set is different. So we (I?) prefer to be able to see the similarity in two moves by comparing their inner components without having to go and figure out which leg is which. If everything is relative ("opposite of or same as leg referred to in the previous component") then things are generally simpler to cut and paste in e-mail. :-) NOTE: Moves can start and end with other surfaces than toes and clippers, including insides (used like toes), dragons (used like clippers), and soles (used either way depending on whether they're cross-body or not), but the description would otherwise be identical. So a move could be "inside > ... > dragon" if it started with an inside set and ended in a dragon, for example. But the key is, regardless of which surface you use, all the stuff in the middle (after the set and before the pick-up) is the same. But let's ignore those cases for the sake of understanding the basic notation. The terms at the beginning and end of the move description are really the least interesting (especially since most of us agree the set isn't really part of the move, again not wanting to open a can of worms onto the great paradox debate :-)). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- End of Tutorial -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 6 22:31:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03553 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 22:31:28 GMT Received: from ethanesmay@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3110) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA03108 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 21:01:38 GMT Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.156]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22204 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 13:01:40 -0800 Received: from ETHANesmay@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id ORNTa23000 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:01:32 -0500 (EST) From: ETHANesmay Message-ID: <8daac1eb.3500642e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:01:32 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] bags-??? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i need a better dag. can the good ones be found in a store if not how do i get a good one. what i have in mind is something like the 26pice one or just ong better than my magic hach any input is wellcome ETHAN From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 9 21:26:22 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03299 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:24:52 GMT Received: from kaplanb@mscd.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2862) Received: from Market.NET ([140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02860 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:18:20 GMT Received: from clem.mscd.edu (clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA22768 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:17:46 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-9 #24550) with SMTP id <0EPK00O01IYJT3@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:15:55 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 13:15:55 -0700 (MST) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] canvas cut To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What is special about cutting out the canvas from the Lavers? Does it make the shoe more flexible? Does it make that big a difference when playing? I know this was talked about weeks ago but I missed the whole discussion. Also, does anyone know how I can get a Carol bag? And where do I get a copy of Shredded Wheat? Brad From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 10 01:07:12 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA04738 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:07:05 GMT Received: from jpenney@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4636) Received: from Market.NET ([140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA04634 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:59:02 GMT Received: from hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA26660 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:58:29 -0800 Received: from sara (nyc-ny76-17.ix.netcom.com [209.109.228.145]) by hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (8.8.5/george96) with SMTP id UAA26308 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:02:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980307200317.007aacd0@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> X-Sender: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 20:03:17 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Big Fat Josh Penney Subject: Re: [freestyle] canvas In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 01:15 PM 3/9/98 -0700, you wrote: > What is special about cutting out the canvas from the Lavers? Does >it make the shoe more flexible? Increases sensitivity to the footbag - makes your movements more accurate. >Does it make that big a difference when playing? >And where do I get a copy of Shredded Wheat? Nebraksa. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 12 16:58:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00846 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:57:12 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6250) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA06248 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:24:23 GMT Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.157]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA07817 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 04:24:32 -0800 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id ONTPa21408 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:24:24 -0500 (EST) From: StinKyKiwi Message-ID: <36797691.3507d3fa@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:24:24 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] whirl Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey, I've been kicking for about 3 months now, and I've been hitting a lot of 3 add moves;however, I just haven't hit the whirl. anyone have any suggestions? streches? anything that would make it a little easier. Most of it is probably timing I know, but if you can tell me anything else, I'd appreciate it. take it easy, Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 12 22:23:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA03995 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:23:02 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3786) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03784 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:07:09 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca (opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17406 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:07:11 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA26377; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:07:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:07:06 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: StinKyKiwi cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] whirl In-Reply-To: <36797691.3507d3fa@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, StinKyKiwi wrote: > I've been kicking for about 3 months now, and I've been hitting a lot of 3 add > moves;however, I just haven't hit the whirl. anyone have any suggestions? > streches? anything that would make it a little easier. Most of it is probably > timing I know, but if you can tell me anything else, I'd appreciate it. Make sure, before you try whirl, that you have all the basics to associate with that move. Some moves to drill are clipper to same side clipper(make sure you can do at least 10-15 in a row), pick-up (from clipper), and same side butterflies. Anyway, some tips for whirl are to point your toe as you start the dex (this makes it faster) and don't lean over to the opposite side, stay over the bag. For me, it seems a lot easier if I point my toe down in the middle of the dex. Also, try the motion without the bag as well. It really helps later for stuff like paradox whirl and barflies. Hope that helps, Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 13 06:33:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA07566 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 06:33:07 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (7325) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA07323 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 05:39:43 GMT Received: from stick.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23977 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:39:48 -0800 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA05817; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 23:40:03 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 23:40:03 -0600 (CST) From: Eric Burgess To: StinKyKiwi cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] whirl In-Reply-To: <36797691.3507d3fa@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, StinKyKiwi wrote: > I've been kicking for about 3 months now, and I've been hitting a lot of 3 add > moves;however, I just haven't hit the whirl. anyone have any suggestions? > streches? anything that would make it a little easier. Most of it is probably > timing I know, but if you can tell me anything else, I'd appreciate it. whirl is a move that i tried unsuccessfully for the longest time, with no luck. i finally got fed up and found the smoothest whirl i could (steve kramer at the beginning of 96 shred), stood in front of the tv, and just practiced that motion over and over and over. i think my problem was that my leg was going "up-down" instead of "around". once i started making a conscious effort to do a very circular whirl, i started landing it. hope it helps! and no matter what move you're schooling, just remember...keep trying, and you WILL hit it! eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 14 19:10:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01069 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 19:08:30 GMT Received: from zogg13@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1038) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01036 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 19:06:21 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f4.hotmail.com [207.82.250.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA16689 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 11:06:23 -0800 Received: (qmail 21507 invoked by uid 0); 14 Mar 1998 19:06:21 -0000 Message-ID: <19980314190621.21506.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.72.213.86 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 11:06:21 PST X-Originating-IP: [166.72.213.86] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] canvas cut Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 14:06:21 EST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yes it does. Cuting out the canvas makes it more soft for stalls, and you can "feel" the bag easier on your foot. IF you didn't know you don't have to cut out the canvas on the outside of the shoe. That side is very flat for stalling. Some neat-o saying I can't think of, Steve Miskiewicz > What is special about cutting out the canvas from the Lavers? Does >it make the shoe more flexible? Does it make that big a difference when >playing? > I know this was talked about weeks ago but I missed the whole >discussion. > Also, does anyone know how I can get a Carol bag? And where do I get >a copy of Shredded Wheat? > > Brad > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 15 03:18:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA02776 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 03:17:01 GMT Received: from shredstein@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2735) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA02733 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 03:11:49 GMT Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.152]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA21626 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 19:11:54 -0800 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OMVCa23134 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 22:11:50 -0500 (EST) From: ShReDStEiN Message-ID: <125013a3.350b46f8@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 22:11:50 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Lets Liven this list up... I've got a question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok guys, I've been shredding for months on end and I stil can't hit barfly the way I want? ANy tips suggestions... I'm up up for whatever help you can give me. Plus just wanted someone to explain to me what a "blurier" was, I can't quite visualize it, someone told me and I forgot. Finally, I give props to Ethan Klein, I "love" your footbag writings... especially that poem you wrote way back when. Anyhow, I hope to see some of you at the SO Cal Footbag Championships which our club (OOPS) is holding in April. God bless Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Mar 15 17:18:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00471 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 17:09:50 GMT Received: from jpenney@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (354) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA00352 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 16:34:38 GMT Received: from hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28455 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 08:34:33 -0800 Received: from sara (nyc-ny67-06.ix.netcom.com [209.109.225.134]) by hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (8.8.5/george96) with SMTP id LAA03034 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:38:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980315113923.007afca0@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> X-Sender: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:39:23 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Big Fat Josh Penney Subject: [freestyle] Re: He's got a question In-Reply-To: <125013a3.350b46f8@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:11 PM 3/14/98 EST, you wrote: >I stil can't hit barfly the way I want? Keep plugging at it. Watch someone better than you. Emulate. Try varying the set. >explain to me what a "blurier" was, I can't quite visualize it, someone told me and I forgot. Not really sure.. 'Blurry' means blurry whirl, and 'blurriest' is blurry barfly... Oh, wait. Now I remember. Blurrier is a stepping double down, like a homesick (or magnetized) blurriest: clip > op in > same out > same out > op clip >I give props to Ethan Klein. Hear, hear. Tie him to a chair and make him write for Footbag World. Then again, they might just take the initiative and 'yoink!' it; that wouldn't be the first time. UH! JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 16 18:32:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01124 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:31:24 GMT Received: from damocles_schwert@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1058) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01056 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:22:08 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f24.hotmail.com [207.82.250.35]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA15781 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:22:09 -0800 Received: (qmail 20130 invoked by uid 0); 16 Mar 1998 18:22:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19980316182208.20128.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.14.188 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:22:07 PST X-Originating-IP: [149.175.14.188] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Lets Liven this list up... I've got a question Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:22:07 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "Ok guys, I've been shredding for months on end and I stil can't hit barfly the way I want? ANy tips suggestions... I'm up up for whatever help you can give me." I'm not sure if this will help or not but I found that doing bluriest was a good practice for barflys. Sound kind of backwards? Well mabye it is. But if you think about it when you do barfly you have to turn into and reach for the bag because it's in front of your body, giving you narrow window to do the dextarities, for bluriest the bag is right under your body where you have the widest range of motion, all you have to be is fast. The point being, basically what ever related tricks you can do are good practice, paridon, double over down, doun double down, down diver down, scorpiions tail, what ever. Of cource I also learned eggbeaters from a paridox set first and reverce miraging paridox drifter befor drifter so mabye I kind of take this to extreems. "Plus just wanted someone to explain to me what a "blurier" was, I can't quite visualize it, someone told me and I forgot." Stepping double over down? I'd just like to say this is an increadible trick. Any one who still hasn't seen it Kenny does one on the Tam Tam jam vidio, at WWW.footbag.org, of cource, just click on the Kenny animation. You know that would be good practice for barflys also... Andrew McCargar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 16 22:35:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02438 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:35:09 GMT Received: from stinkykiwi@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2101) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02099 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:49:02 GMT Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19873 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:49:04 -0800 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OVHIa28013 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:48:58 -0500 (EST) From: StinKyKiwi Message-ID: <4e1e152f.350d9e49@aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:48:58 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Move name Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org yo, I saw this awsome shredder in Shredded Wheat do something that looks like this...CLIP>SAME IN [DEX]>SPIN(BACK)>OP CLIP I hope the notation is right....and I might me wrong about the spin(back) stuff, doesnt that mean sping away from the bag? take it easy yal, Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 16 22:42:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA02493 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:42:05 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2390) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02388 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:33:11 GMT Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.37]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20638 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:33:14 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OLMKa03501 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:32:49 -0500 (EST) From: Nageylum Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:32:49 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] I've got a question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey, I've got a question for all ya that can help me. Whirling swirls, i've been doing them for a while but it seems that the outside of my lavers keeps hitting the ground. Now is there any special little trick that i've over looked or do i just need to practice whirls and swirls more to get better speed, leading to better timing? "they call me Tim." Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 17 08:24:12 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA05272 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:24:00 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4599) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA04597 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 05:02:25 GMT Received: from stick.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27136 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:02:31 -0800 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA12183; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:02:53 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:02:53 -0600 (CST) From: Eric Burgess To: StinKyKiwi cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move name In-Reply-To: <4e1e152f.350d9e49@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, StinKyKiwi wrote: > I saw this awsome shredder in Shredded Wheat do something that looks like > this...CLIP>SAME IN [DEX]>SPIN(BACK)>OP CLIP sounds like paradox torque to me...if i'm visualizing the right spin direction. i can't even think of what it would be like spinning the other direction...paradox whirling spinning clipper??? geez eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 17 16:31:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00771 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:29:14 GMT Received: from bpepper@holly.colostate.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (409) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA00407 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:42:45 GMT Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA01541 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:42:40 -0800 Received: from holly.ColoState.EDU (holly.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.76]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id IAA28758 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:42:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from ts2210.SLIP.ColoState.EDU (ts2210.SLIP.ColoState.EDU [129.82.192.78]) by holly.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with SMTP id IAA151370 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:42:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <350EAB3D.1F08@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:56:29 -0800 From: bill pepper Reply-To: bpepper@holly.ColoState.EDU Organization: csu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] dexterities and clubs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey there been kicking for a while (about 15 yrs), but i am now trying to actually improve. currently trying to nail the stalls and DEXTERITIES COUPLE q'S FOR Y'ALL 1. any and all tips on creating a university club.(i'd like to start one at CSU to both promote the sport and improve my play). 2. an OUT DEX. (i do a move which is left leg over footbag immediately into a flying clip kick). is that a true OUT DEX or does the leg have to come completely around. i allso do a move where IN DEX goes to a jumping inside kick (op side). is that anything ? or the beginning of something? whats a good next step? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 17 16:31:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00758 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:29:12 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5574) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA05572 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:04:09 GMT Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.41]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA31581 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 03:04:17 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id ONVZa14703 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 06:04:07 -0500 (EST) From: Nageylum Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 06:04:07 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] I've got a question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org not sure if i already sent this so here it goes again hey hey, I've got a question for all ya that can help me. Whirling swirls, i've been doing them for a while but it seems that the outside of my lavers keeps hitting the ground. Now is there any special little trick that i've over looked or do i just need to practice whirls and swirls more to get better speed, leading to better timing? "they call me Tim." Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 17 21:59:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03270 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 21:59:50 GMT Received: from bpepper@holly.colostate.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2207) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02205 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:32:39 GMT Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06350 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:32:40 -0800 Received: from holly.ColoState.EDU (holly.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.76]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id MAA33814 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:32:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (bpepper@localhost) by holly.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with SMTP id MAA59186 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:32:21 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:32:21 -0700 (MST) From: William Pepper To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] thanks Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org thanks for the reponses people (jane and one other person whose name i forget) does rick reeese have a contact # or address or maybe e-mail i'd like him to kick with us up here in ft collins if he'd be interested it's not too easy for me to travel (time-kids-life), although i'm interested in going to check out some comps if people are pooling there. bill Q. whats an outside stall to OP clip kick? a spin accros the back (rotate to the R) to a flying clip (R)? bill From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Mar 17 21:59:51 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA03256 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 21:59:48 GMT Received: from nageylum@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2091) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02089 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:22:08 GMT Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06014 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:22:03 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id ODDIa09327 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:21:47 -0500 (EST) From: Nageylum Message-ID: <54cb737a.350ecd4d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:21:47 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] yet another move question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey, Well it seems that i've been having trouble with my e-mail sending, but that's besides the point. Anyway, i'm starting to do blury whirls and i've hit them a few time on each leg now is there a way to better at this move with out just doing this one move over and over again, like other moves that will help me with my timing and all that jazz??? any help is great if ya can send it my way. Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 18 02:21:38 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05180 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:21:36 GMT Received: from derric@dallasfootbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3664) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03661 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:51:50 GMT Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10503 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:51:46 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA13677; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:51:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from fit.netcomi.com(204.58.155.64) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013591; Tue Mar 17 16:50:35 1998 Message-ID: <350DAD91.25D@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:54:09 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bpepper@holly.ColoState.EDU CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] dexterities and clubs References: <350EAB3D.1F08@holly.colostate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org bill pepper wrote: > > hey there > been kicking for a while (about 15 yrs), but i am now trying to actually > improve. > currently trying to nail the stalls and DEXTERITIES > COUPLE q'S FOR Y'ALL > > 1. any and all tips on creating a university club.(i'd like to start one > at CSU to both promote the sport and improve my play). > Talk to the people who organize most of the campus activities. They will know how to start a club. For my school (UTD), it is easy. Just get 5 people and one faculty member to sign up for it. Bam. You have a club and they give you $50 to start out with. As far as getting the word out about your club and getting other people to join, I don't know. I'll listen to any advice on that. I've just been kicking around campus hoping people will come up and join me. I guess it just takes time and persistance. > 2. an OUT DEX. (i do a move which is left leg over footbag immediately > into a flying clip kick). is that a true OUT DEX or does the leg have to > come completely around. Yep. That is an out dex. That move is called a flying butterfly kick. Try stalling the bag on that clipper instead of just kicking it. That is called a butterfly and is a key component in many other moves. > i allso do a move where IN DEX goes to a jumping inside kick (op side). > is that anything ? or the beginning of something? whats a good next > step? That is a dragonfly kick. These are all good places to start... especially the stalls. Get Tricks of the Trade. It is a video you can order from the WFA. It has The Good Man (Kenny) showing all of the basic moves and a few of the harder ones. It'll be enough to get you going. Kick on. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Mar 18 02:21:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA05169 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:21:34 GMT Received: from marigold@vcn.bc.ca () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4818) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04816 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:36:30 GMT Received: from vcn.bc.ca ([207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA13134 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:36:33 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA06664; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:36:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:36:11 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: Nageylum cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] yet another move question In-Reply-To: <54cb737a.350ecd4d@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Nageylum wrote: > besides the point. Anyway, i'm starting to do blury whirls and i've hit > them a few time on each leg now is there a way to better at this move with out > just doing this one move over and over again, like other moves that will help > me with my timing and all that jazz??? any help is great if ya can send it my > way. The best way is to practice it over and over and over but there are moves to master before you do blurry whirl. This really helps with complex moves such as blurry whirl. Practice moves that are associated with blurry whirl: whirl, paradox whirl, blur, ripwalk etc. If you have these mastered (90% or higher) than blurry whirl will come relativley easy. Adrian -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 19 00:16:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA03757 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:15:08 GMT Received: from dashiell@essential.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2857) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02855 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:59:31 GMT Received: from essential.essential.org (essential.org [198.4.52.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29247 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:59:31 -0800 Received: from essential.org (frankenstein.essential.org [198.4.52.22]) by essential.essential.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01496 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:01:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <351044E7.5597B819@essential.org> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:04:23 -0500 From: Dashiell Love X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] ankle sprain (Tuan, Vince tells me your the expert) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, I finally found the listserves, and just in time to inquire about any advice anyone may have about ideas for quick recovery for ankle sprains. I was running last thursday when my right ankle folded in. I have been wearing an ace bandage, and can walk alright but my ankle cannot bend too far and is sore from the kicking I did today. I fear my overzealousness will prevent or postpone proper healing. Anyone have any advice? - thanx - Dashiell Love From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 19 00:16:12 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA03751 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:15:07 GMT Received: from hackin420@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (2749) Received: from hotmail.com (f113.hotmail.com [207.82.251.43]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA02747 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:48:07 GMT Received: (qmail 19912 invoked by uid 0); 18 Mar 1998 21:47:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19980318214724.19911.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 129.71.123.67 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:47:24 PST X-Originating-IP: [129.71.123.67] From: "jeff shields" To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] 3 add dex moves Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:47:24 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have been having trouble lately with alot of the 3 add dex tricks like pixie moves and the eggbeater. I was wodering if there was anyone who know of ways to improve leg speed. I can get the dex but not quite fast enough. Any tips? Are there any serious kicker up near Erie, Pa. I will be spending this summer there and kicking by yourself with no advice or help on tricks is hard after a while. Jeff ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 19 03:49:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA05640 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 03:49:14 GMT Received: from mccombsa@ucs.orst.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5489) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA05487 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 03:38:43 GMT Received: from ucs.orst.edu (UCS.ORST.EDU [128.193.4.5]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA02325 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:38:46 -0800 Received: from localhost by ucs.orst.edu (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/13Sep96-1023AM) id AA31398; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:38:45 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:38:45 -0800 (PST) From: Avery Mc Combs Reply-To: Avery Mc Combs To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] spring break Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Is anyone going to be in the Seattle area between march 23rd and 26th? I will be up there visiting my half-brother and would like to take this opportunity to kick with some new people. Please email me at mccombsa@ucs.orst.edu and tell me your phone number and adress and I will give you a call. -Avery From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 19 05:16:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA06160 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 05:16:25 GMT Received: from eric@netcomi.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6109) Received: from stick.netcomi.com ([204.58.155.64]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA06107 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 05:14:50 GMT Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by stick.netcomi.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA06744; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:15:17 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: stick.netcomi.com: eric owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:15:17 -0600 (CST) From: Eric Burgess To: jeff shields cc: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] 3 add dex moves In-Reply-To: <19980318214724.19911.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, jeff shields wrote: > I have been having trouble lately with alot of the 3 add dex > tricks like pixie moves and the eggbeater. I was wodering if there was > anyone who know of ways to improve leg speed. I can get the dex but not > quite fast enough. Any tips? chances are you don't need to go any faster. once you really learn a move, it actually seems *slower* than you originally thought. this has been true of every move i have tried, up to and including paradox atomsmasher. of course you will probably have to keep trying to go faster in order to get to that point, but control will get you farther than leg speed any day. keep shredding!! eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Mar 19 16:52:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00660 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:50:50 GMT Received: from klein@proscape.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8785) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA08783 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:40:20 GMT Received: from proxyserv.proscape.com (mail.proscape.com [205.147.246.8]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA09040 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 06:40:29 -0800 Received: by proxyserv.proscape.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BD531A.70D8BF70@proxyserv.proscape.com>; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:36:06 -0500 Message-ID: From: Ethan Klein To: "'freestyle list'" Subject: [freestyle] Attaining the smoothiness Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:36:04 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Footbag brethren, Lately I haven't enjoyed the impetus to write, or think, passionately about footbag because of a performance lull that I've been struggling through. Over the last few weeks I just haven't been able to put it together in the footbag arena. Knowing I could hit certain moves and/or combos, boffing them, getting frustrated! However, I have THE classic Rippin Rick picture hanging on the wall in front of my office cubicle and yesterday I just stared at his perfected clipper. Stared at his immaculate balance, imagining him tossing that clipper into his signature paradox symposium whirl or maybe even a rare, but super-dank Rippin flurry. He's totally OVER THE BAG. He's totally mid flow. Anyway - I went home last night and skooled solo, invigorated by imaginatory mental ramblings stemming from the Rippin picture. To my infinite pleasure the zone overtook me. A slight elevation in confidence catapulting me in and through my cusp level moves and combos. Psyched by actualized symmetry, impersonating the stylistic grace and fluidity of the all-mighty master of all that is rippin, the Gods of footbag have again intoxicated me with the perpetually un-satiated, yet glorious love of the game! Must go work See ya - Ethan My dilemma - Worlds or Himalayan Indian adventure??? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 20 07:43:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA06870 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:43:34 GMT Received: from s9709652@jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (5789) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA05787 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 03:40:25 GMT Received: from rmit.EDU.AU (voga.rmit.EDU.AU [131.170.1.20]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22650 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:40:28 -0800 Received: from jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au (jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.EDU.AU [131.170.36.250]) by rmit.EDU.AU (8.8.8/8.7.3/ram4/ANTI-SPAM/ANTI-RELAY/VOGA) with ESMTP id OAA02027 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:40:15 +1100 (EST) Received: from POISSON/SpoolDir by jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 20 Mar 98 14:41:32 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by POISSON (Mercury 1.21); 20 Mar 98 14:40:59 +1100 From: "Lynton Stephens" Organization: Civil & Geological Engineering RMIT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:40:57 EST-10 Subject: [freestyle] Toe Blur hints? Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-ID: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi freestylers- I've been attempting toe blur without any success and am seeking hints, I'm sure there are many of you out there who nail it smooth & often. I keep crashing into the bag with the knee of my set leg after I do the first mirage, which is an extremely ugly technique flaw. I have experimented but not stumbled upon a solution. I'm sure I have the speed, my smears, fairy mirages, etc are fine. Atom smasher & double mirage are nearly there. I did 8 consec. double Around the World's in February, but as I said my technique lets me down with toe blur. HELP. thanks, Lynton. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 20 16:30:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA00968 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:30:13 GMT Received: from vernd@geotrac.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (8152) Received: from mail.accnorwalk.com (mail.accnorwalk.com [207.87.221.24]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA08150 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:33:34 GMT Received: from vernd.geotrac.com ([207.87.222.34]) by mail.accnorwalk.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release 0122 ID# 564-48782U3500L350S0) with SMTP id AAA176 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:36:19 -0500 Received: by vernd.geotrac.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BD53DA.A54B66C0@vernd.geotrac.com>; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:31:57 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD53DA.A54B66C0@vernd.geotrac.com> From: Vern DeHaven To: "'freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Attaining the smoothiness Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:31:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD53DA.A54B66C0" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD53DA.A54B66C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Ethan Klein My dilemma - Worlds or Himalayan Indian adventure??? Love the dissertation, Ethan, however, your dilemma might be trivial. = Though millions of years sit waiting to be discovered in that Himalayan = wilderness, even all of that old growth energy can't top the power of = thousands of generations whose ancestry has culminated in the grace to = be displayed at Worlds. In other words, hug all the trees you want, footbag is way cooler. Venture, Vern ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD53DA.A54B66C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjkNAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAWAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAXQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVzdHlsZUBtYWpv cmRvbW8uZm9vdGJhZy5vcmcAU01UUABmcmVlc3R5bGVAbWFqb3Jkb21vLmZvb3RiYWcub3JnAAAA AB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAgAAAAZnJlZXN0eWxlQG1ham9yZG9tby5mb290 YmFnLm9yZwADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAiAAAAJ2ZyZWVzdHlsZUBtYWpvcmRvbW8u Zm9vdGJhZy5vcmcnAAAAAgELMAEAAAAlAAAAU01UUDpGUkVFU1RZTEVATUFKT1JET01PLkZPT1RC QUcuT1JHAAAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAACg0oBBIABACoAAABSRTog W2ZyZWVzdHlsZV0gQXR0YWluaW5nIHRoZSBzbW9vdGhpbmVzcwB4DwEFgAMADgAAAM4HAwAUAAgA HwAzAAUASwEBIIADAA4AAADOBwMAFAAIABIAMwAFAD4BAQmAAQAhAAAANEY4RTdFN0RDQUJGRDEx MThCREM0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAANAcBA5AGAOgDAAAUAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAA AwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQCAD5eKBFS9AR4AcAABAAAAKgAAAFJFOiBbZnJlZXN0eWxlXSBB dHRhaW5pbmcgdGhlIHNtb290aGluZXNzAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb1UBIqPfX6OVb/KEdGL3ERF U1QAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAADAAAATVMAAB4AHwwBAAAAGwAAAFdPUktHUk9VUC9TT1VUSFZJRVcvVmVy bmV0AAADAAYQdgzy9wMABxCNAQAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAARlJPTTpFVEhBTktMRUlOPEtMRUlOQFBS T1NDQVBFQ09NTVlESUxFTU1BLVdPUkxEU09SSElNQUxBWUFOSU5ESUFOQURWRU5UVVJFPz8/TE9W RVRIRURJU1NFUlRBVElPTixFVAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAEUCAABBAgAAagMAAExaRnXbbquI/wAKAQ8C FQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzIDxgcTAoNGMwPFAgBwcnESInOodGVtAoM0 Ew19CoCLCM8J2TsXnzI1NQKABwqBDbELYG5nMTAzwxQgCwNsaTM2DfALVVcVwgwBFMBvFUBjBUBG YQNhOiBFdBHAA6BLpGxlC4AgPB3jQByhIQTwYXBlLgWgbT7XC0YS8gwBYwBAIAqFCofDG98c4k15 IGQDEBVQIQDAIC0gVwWwbGSbBCAFsUgHcAdAYXkDkYxJbiMwA5FhZHYJ8PJ0CHBlPyYQCo8f3yZy 9ExvJaAgHZAo0CMwBBDTBJABkHRpAiAsHXQp8FBob3dlJaByKfB5QwhhIydtaWdoBUBiCyjRBRB2 BzEuICBU7SqAdSwAK9FsG2ACICQhamYrAGUR0SAAkAVAd+8LcCmwGqAo4G8sMikxBaD7KsEJgCAe ER2RBUAkeAPw9yQABJEHkHMp8CqxJWEtoP8uAjCjBvAwUAnAKpAdkDJAmTHwcmcjEB7wbicFQPUv YHAo43AqkQXAMuMIYO5zAHAkEi4gZzQSKaMEIM53KoAR8CVwbmMHkCxwRyMQEcAEIGN1bCvgbv8p oDBGKNAJwADQKNEvdgtR7y5AMFAwwSPULiC8JRAkMPso8QXAdwWwJBAqYS1AMpP/KPIscAngBCAr ES7RAjAp8PMCEBzAYmEvQAQALtE0Yas/gB3wcjvNViW0LEFHFwSgJkUWwQBDkAAAAAMAEBAAAAAA AwAREAAAAABAAAcwYHaMuQJUvQFAAAgwYHaMuQJUvQEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9 NwAADxA= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD53DA.A54B66C0-- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Mar 20 17:09:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA01421 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:09:43 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1213) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA01210 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:49:47 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.126]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA31580 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:49:47 -0800 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA123112583; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:49:44 -0600 Received: from localhost by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA277632578; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:49:39 -0600 Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:49:38 -0600 (CST) From: Sean Wingert Reply-To: Sean Wingert To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Leg Speed Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jeff Shields wrote: > I've been having trouble with leg speed on eggbeater & 3-add moves... I agree with Eric that leg speed is an after-effect of mastering the trick, but I would add that--especially on double dexterity or fast dexterity moves--putting your *knee* over the bag for the first dexterity (as opposed to bringing your ankle around the bag) is very effective in moves like leg/egg beater, down-double, barrage (especially), and all "blurry" tricks. Kenny Shults hit the nail on the head in TOTT: set the bag *STRAIGHT UP*! Leg Beater Example (Sean's interpretation :-)) Set the bag perfectly vertical (and directly in front of your crotch). Then *twist your hips* 90 degrees (reverse miraging, with your dex leg in the air) to finish the first dex (the bag should travel directly under the hamstring of that leg). If you do it right, the rest of leg beater is a simple (cough, cough) butterfly--looks good, feels better. Sean :-) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 21 00:39:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA05135 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 00:39:28 GMT Received: from zogg13@hotmail.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (4150) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA04148 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:44:27 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f6.hotmail.com [207.82.250.17]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA05660 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:44:30 -0800 Received: (qmail 23344 invoked by uid 0); 20 Mar 1998 22:44:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19980320224429.23343.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 32.100.87.201 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:44:28 PST X-Originating-IP: [32.100.87.201] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] One question Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:44:28 EST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok an around the world is when you circle around the bag with your foot. What is it when you bring your foot over the bag and back under to the toe stall? Steve ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Mar 21 05:54:19 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA06699 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 05:54:00 GMT Received: from jpenney@footbag.org () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (6575) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA06573 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 05:26:09 GMT Received: from hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10261 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:26:14 -0800 Received: from sara (grc-ny14-47.ix.netcom.com [207.94.106.111]) by hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (8.8.5/george96) with SMTP id AAA14521; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 00:30:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980321003107.007b5e70@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> X-Sender: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 00:31:07 -0500 To: "Steve Miskiewicz" From: Big Fat Josh Penney Subject: Re: [freestyle] One question Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <19980320224429.23343.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 05:44 PM 3/20/98 EST, you wrote: >Ok an around the world is when you circle around the bag with your foot. >What is it when you bring your foot over the bag and back under to the >toe stall? Around the world with *really* bad form. You're really asking me to define dexterity. The rules say (I think) that a dexterity occurs when a leg gets between your line of sight and the bag. 'True dexterity' is the lower part of the calf circling the bag completely. Considering the nature of how freestyle has evolved since that definition of 'true dexterity' I suggest that circling with anything higher up on the leg is okay too. I just assumed it was... well... assumed. Anything lower than the ankle is considered "The" as far as I'm concerned. So your 'over the bag' bit is really "around *The* world." JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 23 15:49:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA02124 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:48:59 GMT Received: from swingert@creighton.edu () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (1981) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA01979 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:00:20 GMT Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.126]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA18324 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:00:23 -0800 Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu by mailjay.creighton.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA133455222; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:00:22 -0600 Received: from localhost by bluejay.creighton.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA156425222; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:00:22 -0600 Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:00:22 -0600 (CST) From: Sean Wingert To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #359 In-Reply-To: <199803202350.XAA04743@eniac.yak.net.taz> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Lynton Stephens wrote: > I've been attempting toe blur without any success and am seeking > hints. > I keep crashing into the bag with the knee of my set leg > after I do the first mirage, which is an extremely ugly technique > flaw. I've been skooling Toe Blur the last few nights (as a cool-down, in hail-mary-please-please-please fashion) and ran into the same problem you are having (hitting the bag with the set foot after the initial dex). But, I fixed it by (1) setting the bag *straight up* in front of my crotch, (2) swinging my hips (*not* my legs) to finish the first dex. This technique was effective on both left and right sets. The rest of the move--which will now feel like a paradox mirage--should be simple if you've mastered, as you say you have, Smear and Smudge. Once you start nailing this move (learn it both sides), you will know you have it licked when you can hit: Toe Blur, Smear, Toe Blur, Smudge, Toe Blur, Toe set Barrage. Also, once you learn Legbeater, Atom Smasher, Blur, and Blizzard combine them (you must have both sides, however): Toe Blur, Smear, Smudge, Toe Blur, Leg Beater, Blur, Atom Smasher--now repeat. 1-2-3 cha, cha, cha... :-) Sean From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 23 18:55:59 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA03584 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:55:58 GMT Received: from shahrayar@aol.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3329) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA03327 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:32:49 GMT Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21152 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:32:50 -0800 Received: from SHAHRAYAR@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id OSZBa12035 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:32:00 -0500 (EST) From: SHAHRAYAR Message-ID: <700bc44e.3516aaa2@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:32:00 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Toe Blur hints? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org toe blur (how to hit it) a question that has plagued me for some time now.... In a message dated 98-03-20 02:44:35 EST, you write: << Hi freestylers- I've been attempting toe blur without any success and am seeking hints, I'm sure there are many of you out there who nail it smooth & often. I keep crashing into the bag with the knee of my set leg after I do the first mirage, which is an extremely ugly technique flaw. I have experimented but not stumbled upon a solution. I'm sure I have the speed, my smears, fairy mirages, etc are fine. Atom smasher & double mirage are nearly there. I did 8 consec. double Around the World's in February, but as I said my technique lets me down with toe blur. HELP. thanks, Lynton. >> From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 23 18:56:03 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA03554 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:55:32 GMT Received: from crvich@raleigh.ibm.com () via =-=-=-=-=-= for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org (3252) Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA03250 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:23:40 GMT Received: from fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (fwns1d.raleigh.ibm.com [204.146.167.235]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21012 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:23:39 -0800 Received: from rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com ([9.37.172.24]) by fwns1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7RTP-FW1.1) with ESMTP id JAA34478 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:59:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (ode1.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.178.164]) by rtpmail01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/RTP-ral-1.1) with SMTP id JAA31268 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:59:56 -0500 Received: from odent1.raleigh.ibm.com by ode1.raleigh.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03-RAL) id AA33110; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:59:48 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980323095933.0090a880@ode1> X-Sender: crvich@ode1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:59:33 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: [freestyle] A few random comments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org 1. Footbag has finally appeared on The Simpsons. Last night's episode showed the local bullies (Nelson, Jimbo, Dolph, and Kearny) standing in a circle, kicking a live frog back and forth. 2. While wasting my life away in a Yahoo chat room, Trivia Madness, I asked the following question: Hacky Sack is the brand name for what sport? No one had a clue, and several (at least 3) people made nasty comments such as "that's a sport??? haha!", "I hope it never makes it to the Olympics", and "this is a lame question". I avoided any arguments, but I left a bit depressed...I must admit I hate how the electronic age seems to bring out the JERK in people. 3. I've apparently pulled a muscle, probably from not stretching enough. It's in my right leg, where the quad attaches to the hip, which makes it painful to do toe stalls on that leg...double leg overs which end in a right toe are especially bad. I've only styled twice in the last 2.5 weeks, both times ending in moderate pain. The straw that broke my back was Sunil TURBO Jani's visit...I was so overwhelmed by his [reverse] miraging sets (SO DAMN HIGH!) that my only recourse was to do a lot of eggbeaters, dbl leg overs, and a few pdx dbl leg overs...all ending on a right toe. It was my undoing. Ambivalently, Ernest -- Ernest M. Crvich Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Mar 23 20:48:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) (fnord) by eniac.yak.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA04532 for freestyle