From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jun 1 05:49:08 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA20426 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:49:08 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from rmit.EDU.AU (root@voga.rmit.EDU.AU [131.170.1.20]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23503 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 21:45:56 -0700 Received: from jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au (jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.EDU.AU [131.170.36.250]) by rmit.EDU.AU (8.8.8/8.7.3/ram4/ANTI-SPAM/ANTI-RELAY/VOGA) with ESMTP id PAA20971 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:42:56 +1000 (EST) Received: from POISSON/SpoolDir by jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 1 Jun 98 15:45:11 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by POISSON (Mercury 1.21); 1 Jun 98 15:44:55 +1100 From: "Lynton Stephens" Organization: Civil & Geological Engineering RMIT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:44:51 EST-10 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Double ATW Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-ID: <7684EA542D@jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Allman 144 said: > Hey everyone, got a few questions. First of all, what is the trick with the > double around the worlds?!?! Is it the set? The timing? The speed? I agree with everything Eric Burgess said. One crucial thing which you probably already know is point your toe down during the `pass-by' on the inside of the bag. If you leave a flat `poking out' you're more likely to knock the bag and it also slows you down. This hint is on Tricks of the Trade, until I saw that I couldn't hit the move but after ... easy. Pointing your toe down allows a tighter circle, therefore you don't have to travel as far or as fast. The set must be straight, but height is just as important, too low and you need to be really fast, too high (groin level) and you get cramped up with the dexterities. Speed isn't important for hitting the move on its own, but if you want to link it then speed helps, to get the dexterities out of the way quick and follow the bag down nice'n'easy ready to set smooooothly into another move. Also: I tried to email Tuan Vu or Tu Vu recently but the message wasn't delivered, can anyone help me out with a correct address? Maybe one of these BAP brothers is out there on the listserver? Exams or Freestyle - a dilemma. Lynton From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jun 17 16:56:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA26357 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:56:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: PRODIDFB@aol.com Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA32614 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 17:48:56 -0700 Received: from PRODIDFB@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id OFMKa03745 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 21:48:20 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <24c9aa5.35847d66@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 21:48:20 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] The Hottest Tricks to Date! Care of Charlotte Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is a list of the hottest tricks to come out of Charlotte North Carolina. If you doubt the abilities of the players mentioned just ask Steve Goldberg, Scott Davidson, Peter Irish, or Devo. All the tricks listed have been hit in combination with adds of equal or lessor value or they would not be listed today June 14, 1998. (All combinations are quiltless)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The following tricks are based on the concept of the x-body rake. Given arguement on its add count, to date the trick is worth 3 adds. The shred genius of the Charlotte shredders took to heart the seriousness of the add system and then respectively took advantage. Every trick that can possibley end in clipper can respectively turn to cross body rake which gives one extra add to the original tricks add count. The next fourteen tricks have been mastered in Charlotte shred history by certain members of our triad. 1.) Hoe - Toe set> OP out [dex] OP [xbd] rake[bod][del] 4-adds 2.) Jack hammer - Clip set> OP out [dex]> OP [xbd] rake [bod][del] 4-adds 3.) Tiller - Toe set> OP out[dex]> Same out[dex]> OP [xbd] rake[bod][del] 5-adds 4.) Rotto Tiller - Toe set> Same out[dex]> Same out [dex]> OP [xbd] rake[bod][del] 5-adds 5.) Thriller _ Clip set> OP out[dex]> Same out[dex]> OP [xbd] rake[bod][del] 5-adds 6.) Plow - Clip set> OP in[dex]> OP out[dex]> OP [xbd] rake[bod][del] 5-adds 7.) Back hoe - Pixie set[dex]> OP out[dex]> OP [xbd] rake[bod][del] 5-adds 8.) Claw - Fairy set[dex]> OP out[dex]> OP [xbd] rake[bod][del] 5adds 9.) Front End Loader - Toe set> OP out[dex]> OP out[dex]> OP [xbd] rake [bod][del] 5-adds 10.) Ditch Witch - Clip set> Same in[pdx][dex]> OP [xbd] rake[bod][del] 11.) Rotary Tiller - Clip set> OP out[dex]> Same out[dex]> OP [xbd] rake [bod][del] 5-adds 12.) Witches Brew- Clip set> OP in[dex]> OP reverse swirl [dex]> Same [xbd] rake [bod][del] 5-adds 13.) Bewitched - Blurry set[dex]> Same in[pdx][dex]> OP [xbd] rake[bod][del] 6-adds 14.) Harvester - Blurry set[dex]> OP out[dex]> Same out[dex]> OP [xbd] rake[bod][del] 6-adds Any questions???????????? The Masters of Charlotte Shred Damon "The Dominator" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jun 17 17:05:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA01964 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:05:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f67.hotmail.com [207.82.250.153]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA11491 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:24:56 -0700 Received: (qmail 8739 invoked by uid 0); 17 Jun 1998 16:24:23 -0000 Message-ID: <19980617162423.8738.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.61 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:24:23 PDT X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.61] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] echo echo echo Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:24:23 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Is there something wrong with my computer, did I get kicked off the list, or has it really been over 2 weeks since anyone has written anything? Anyway I have a question for any Canadians on the list. I am only going to be able to stay in Montreal the 15-19, the time of the actual freestyle competition, and no I wasn't bright enough to reserve a room. Is there anyone who lives near Montreal or who reserved a room and will have space who I could impose myself upon for 4 days? Hope to see everyone there. -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jun 17 18:05:59 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA19254 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:05:59 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from proxyserv.proscape.com (mail.proscape.com [205.147.246.8]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA13046 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:55:43 -0700 Received: by proxyserv.proscape.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62) id <01BD99F6.DCD73DA0@proxyserv.proscape.com>; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:50:18 -0400 Message-ID: From: Ethan Klein To: "'freestyle list'" Subject: [freestyle] East Coast shredding Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:50:17 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Heads - First of all - Cheers to the NC crew for hitting some seriously gnarled raking Mcneuvers. I'm sitting here at my computer trying to imagine hitting the "harvester?" which I guess is basically a blurriest rake? That's hard core! I'd love to see an all-raking guiltless string. Anyway - I'm writing to inform anyone interested that there will now be a weekly Wednesday afternoon shred in Center City Philadelphia - most likely in Rittenhouse Square. There also seems to be brewing a nice little session in Washington Square Park (NYC) this Sunday - at around 3:00. So... North Carolina Crew - Josh Casey - Brown shredders (where are you Stu??) - West Chester County shredders (Dan) - D.C. posse (Devo, Vince, PI) - Casey R. - EVERYBODY!!!! Hone your skills for the upcoming tourny to end all tournies - Experience the laid-back jamming of the Mid-Atlantic states - Visit the birthplace of our great Nation - see the sole representative of the BMP (Mr. Josh Penney) scamper through his signature Big Apple shred. Philly - every Wed this summer at 6:30 in Rittenhouse square (occasionally "old-school" at Penn) NYC - every Sunday at 3:30 in Washington Square Park (ESPECIALLY THIS SUNDAY!) Happy shredding - Ethan BTW - I'm retarded at spinning/gyrating butterfly! Please help! Can't spin strait up - always keel to one side. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jun 17 22:11:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA27607 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:11:49 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (root@diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA19761 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 14:08:26 -0700 Received: from tuhuge.sfsu.edu (madmax-177.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.177]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA24481 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980617150635.006a322c@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:06:35 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Tu Vu Subject: Re: [freestyle] East Coast shredding In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > There also seems to be brewing a nice little session in Washington >Square Park (NYC) this Sunday - at around 3:00. east coast shreds are the REAL DEAL!!!!!!!! There aren't too many jams that are more fun (about to say funner :) ) All you folks better go shred with the East Coast Freestyle Scene 'cause you won't be dissapointed. 2 huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jun 19 06:58:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA31154 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 19 Jun 1998 06:58:07 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f27.hotmail.com [207.82.250.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA07857 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:01:53 -0700 Received: (qmail 2934 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 1998 03:01:22 -0000 Message-ID: <19980619030122.2933.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.201.49 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 20:01:22 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.201.49] From: "Marc Inzinger" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] xb-rake? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 20:01:22 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Everybody seems to talk about tricks which are working with a so called cross body rake. I know how to do a regular rake( toe delay behind your back and bringing in a motion forward until you release it)... but how can you do the whole thing in cross body position? Is it identical to a tosis? Marc Inzinger ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jun 19 14:30:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA01122 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:30:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA14546 for ; Fri, 19 Jun 1998 06:24:39 -0700 Received: from sara (grc-ny11-05.ix.netcom.com [207.94.106.133]) by hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (8.8.5/george96) with SMTP id KAA28798 for ; Fri, 19 Jun 1998 10:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980619102917.007ee9e0@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> X-Sender: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 10:29:17 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Overweight Josh Penney Subject: Re: [freestyle] xb-rake? In-Reply-To: <19980619030122.2933.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 08:01 PM 6/18/98 PDT, you wrote: >Everybody seems to talk about tricks which are working with a so called >cross body rake. I know how to do a regular rake( toe delay behind your >back and bringing in a motion forward until you release it)... but how >can you do the whole thing in cross body position? Is it identical to a >tosis? Marc Inzinger Well, first and foremost I'd like to denounce once again the concept of add categories = difficulty. This stated; crossbody rakes are very similar to mirages and symposium mirages. We see consecutive crossbody rakes performed in the same fashion as consecutive mirages, while moving forward. It has been oft stated that if one tries symposium mirage and turns too much it will look like crossbody rake. Many crossbody rakes are mirages, but the call is kinda tough. The real deal- If cross body contact is defined: http://ifab.footbag.org/article-5.html 4.Cross-Body. Moves made on the left side of the body with the right foot, and vice versa. The active foot is crossed behind the support leg during the move. Crossbody rake should be executed with the contact occurring on the outside of the supporting leg, so the 'raking' leg is really *crossed behind*. Most of the time what we see are rakes, with the footbag contacting the toe from the other side of the foot, but the 'styler is turning so it appears to be a crossbody contact. Does this constitute crossbody? I don't think so. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jun 20 06:15:03 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA04699 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 20 Jun 1998 06:15:03 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f232.hotmail.com [207.82.251.123]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA16129 for ; Fri, 19 Jun 1998 08:17:45 -0700 Received: (qmail 28109 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 1998 16:17:15 -0000 Message-ID: <19980619161715.28108.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 149.175.3.61 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 19 Jun 1998 09:17:15 PDT X-Originating-IP: [149.175.3.61] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] xb-rake? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 09:17:15 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org My two cents on this is that i can't see how you could count the cross-body unless the rake ends in the cross-body position. If someone could explain how they contrived the extra add I'd be glad to hear it. However, adds aside I would think that to actually reach behind your planting leg (I'm picturing the same basic stance as a flapper, but with the bag under your toe obviously) and rake out of it without turning definitely deserves some extra credit, but more likely that could be counted as a body add. Anyone besides me feel that this is only destined to get more complicated as the years go bye? -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jun 20 06:21:17 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA04717 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 20 Jun 1998 06:21:17 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20347 for ; Fri, 19 Jun 1998 12:22:35 -0700 Received: from sara (nyc-ny73-54.ix.netcom.com [209.109.227.182]) by hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (8.8.5/george96) with SMTP id QAA07564 for ; Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:27:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980619162702.007d8650@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> X-Sender: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:27:02 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Overweight Josh Penney Subject: [freestyle] Cards for worlds... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey. I was just having a discussion with the Instigator about cards for freestyle routines. Here's what we were talking about: I said that a mirage to a toe delay, and a mirage to an inside delay constitute four 'ticks' on the cards. Since the delay is different, the dexterity is also counted as distinct. He disagrees. What do you think? We'd like to know. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jun 20 06:22:50 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA04734 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 20 Jun 1998 06:22:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: PRODIDFB@aol.com Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16763 for ; Fri, 19 Jun 1998 09:05:15 -0700 Received: from PRODIDFB@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id OJFFa17154 for ; Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:04:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3544c805.358a9a1b@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:04:26 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle] xb-rake? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I agree with JP, xb-rake is not difficult and moves using the xbd rake are not as difficult as they sound. But, in order to get full add count without question the moves HAVE to be executed properly. "The" is not the name you want associated with your choice of tricks. The Masters of Charlotte Shred Damon "The Gardener/ Dominator/anything else I can think of to call myself....." From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jun 20 16:41:55 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA06254 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 20 Jun 1998 16:41:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mailqueue.netcomi.com (root@[204.58.155.200]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA29235; Sat, 20 Jun 1998 07:11:31 -0700 Received: from big-d (dal-tx7-31.ix.netcom.com [207.94.122.159]) by mailqueue.netcomi.com (8.8.7/8.8.5.fogel) with SMTP id KAA28489; Sat, 20 Jun 1998 10:11:04 -0500 x-queue: mailqueue.netcomi.com at Sat, 20 Jun 1998 10:11:04 -0500 Message-ID: <358A80BF.2054@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 10:16:15 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: derric@dallasfootbag.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Overweight Josh Penney CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Cards for worlds... References: <3.0.5.32.19980619162702.007d8650@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Overweight Josh Penney wrote: > > Hey. > > I was just having a discussion with the Instigator about cards for > freestyle routines. > Here's what we were talking about: > I said that a mirage to a toe delay, and a mirage to an inside delay > constitute four 'ticks' on the cards. Since the delay is different, the > dexterity is also counted as distinct. > He disagrees. > > What do you think? We'd like to know. > > JP Any unique move should be counted as such. I feel that any move landing on a toe is different from the same move landing on inside, outside, whatever. Unfortunately, sets don't make a move unique. An infinity set from a dragon is considered to be the same exact move an infinity set from x-body sole, or x-body toe, or even a butterfly set from a normal toe. We are already getting screwed over there, so at least count the moves landing on different surfaces as distinct. That is my opinion at least. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jun 20 16:52:50 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA06325 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 20 Jun 1998 16:52:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29662 for ; Sat, 20 Jun 1998 08:27:31 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.Hunter.CUNY.EDU (8.8.5/george96) id MAA17186; Sat, 20 Jun 1998 12:32:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 12:32:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Joshua D Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Cards for worlds... In-Reply-To: <358A80BF.2054@dallasfootbag.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Derric Scalf wrote: > > I said that a mirage to a toe delay, and a mirage to an inside delay > > constitute four 'ticks' on the cards. Since the delay is different, the > > dexterity is also counted as distinct. > > He disagrees. > > What do you think? We'd like to know. > > Any unique move should be counted as such. I feel that any move landing > on a toe is different from the same move landing on inside, outside, > whatever. So are the dexterities considered unique? I know the moves are, but I just want to be clear on this. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jun 23 05:14:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA16545 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 05:14:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f77.hotmail.com [207.82.250.183]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA28772 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:11:33 -0700 Received: (qmail 2009 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jun 1998 05:11:25 -0000 Message-ID: <19980623051125.2008.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.120.81.235 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:11:25 PDT X-Originating-IP: [204.120.81.235] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re:East Coast shredding Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 01:11:25 EDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Heads - First of all - Cheers to the NC crew for hitting some >seriously gnarled raking Mcneuvers. I'm sitting here at my computer >trying to imagine hitting the "harvester?" which I guess is basically >a blurriest rake? That's hard core! I'd love to see an all-raking >guiltless string. > Anyway - I'm writing to inform anyone interested that there will now >be a weekly Wednesday afternoon shred in Center City Philadelphia - >most likely in Rittenhouse Square. > There also seems to be brewing a nice little session in Washington >Square Park (NYC) this Sunday - at around 3:00. So... North Carolina >Crew - Josh Casey - Brown shredders (where are you Stu??) - West >Chester County shredders (Dan) - D.C. posse (Devo, Vince, PI) - Casey >R. - EVERYBODY!!!! Hone your skills for the upcoming tourny to end >all tournies - Experience the laid-back jamming of the Mid-Atlantic >states - Visit the birthplace of our great Nation - see the sole >representative of the BMP (Mr. Josh Penney) scamper through his >signature Big Apple shred. > >Philly - every Wed this summer at 6:30 in Rittenhouse square >(occasionally "old-school" at Penn) >NYC - every Sunday at 3:30 in Washington Square Park (ESPECIALLY THIS >SUNDAY!) > >Happy shredding - Ethan >BTW - I'm retarded at spinning/gyrating butterfly! Please help! Can't >spin strait up - always keel to one side. > SWEET. I'll probably come over for some of those center city shred sessions(from West Chester,Chester County). Be warned I suck. Steve Miskiewicz ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jun 23 21:07:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA19692 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:07:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nexus.idirect.com (nexus.idirect.com [207.136.80.55]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04904 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:06:59 -0700 Received: from newhopenet-2.idirect.com (newhopenet-2.idirect.com [207.136.100.66]) by nexus.idirect.com (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA05892 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by newhopenet-2.idirect.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BD9F7C.1D34C2C0@newhopenet-2.idirect.com>; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:26:45 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD9F7C.1D34C2C0@newhopenet-2.idirect.com> From: Rob Howe To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Help, etc. Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:25:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id TAA19283 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, I've noticed it has been pretty quiet lately so I decided to ask some questions. 1) When you start it off in a casual circle(not using the complementery toss) how do you start it off? 2) What should I concentrate on when doing a penduleum? 3) When I try to do an around the world do I circle the footbag like a dexterity(over and under the footbag) or vertically(bringing the footbag around the side of the footbag)? 4) Any footbaggers from Ontario? 5) Just a comment. I think that the Converse All-Stars are overlooked as a footbag shoe. With a huge toe, thick soles and a flat surface they are pretty easy to use. Anyway hopefully some of you can answer my questions. Thanks in advance, Rob From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jun 24 05:01:46 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA21596 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:01:46 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: StinKyKiwi@aol.com Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA07112 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:14:56 -0700 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id OEJBa22588 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:14:20 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Help, etc. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org no no no...all stars are not good freestyle soes. The rubber toe doesn't keep your feet in good contact with the bag. Once you get good you'll realize this.. later all, Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jun 24 05:05:17 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA21607 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:05:17 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from MIT.EDU (SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.72.1.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA09735 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:58:19 -0700 Received: from CATHEDRAL-SEVEN.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA12453; Tue, 23 Jun 98 20:58:17 EDT Received: by cathedral-seven.MIT.EDU (8.8.7/4.7) id UAA04693; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806240058.UAA04693@cathedral-seven.MIT.EDU> To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Dragon Add Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:58:17 EDT From: Samuel A Hires Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Okay, I think most mere mortals agree that a dragon is at least as hard as an Osis. I'm told the Osis gets the generic body add for the pivot, even though this pivot isn't necessary if you're flexible enough. So in that event, the body add is really more for the twist of the foot and behind-the-back sack position. That body add is really general, and I think that it should be exteded to the dragon for the inhuman twisting of the BODY to get into the dragon position. It just seems to me that the body add category is general enough in its definition, at least in the FAQ, "This add is awarded to any move which involoves a spin, jump, or TWIST of your body," to merit the add. You have got to seriously close your hips to the sack and twist your leg around to do a dragon. Andrew Hires From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jun 24 14:39:27 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA23475 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:39:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pop02.globecomm.net (pop02.globecomm.net [207.51.48.186]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA13134 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:29:16 -0700 Received: from who.net (dial7-27.tstar.net [208.24.138.42]) by pop02.globecomm.net (8.8.8/8.8.0) with ESMTP id CAA17039; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35909D67.21F7F086@who.net> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:32:07 -0500 From: Eric Burgess X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Samuel A Hires CC: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Dragon Add References: <199806240058.UAA04693@cathedral-seven.MIT.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Samuel A Hires wrote: > Okay, I think most mere mortals agree that a dragon is at least as hard as an Osis. well, the deal is, adds don't really represent difficulty. sad but true. but you'll get major respect for the dragon, and isn't that better than another measley add? e From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jun 24 14:53:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA23560 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:53:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mailhost.onramp.net (mailhost.onramp.net [199.1.11.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA15406 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 04:31:09 -0700 Received: from acsdallas.com (ppp11-11.dllstx.onramp.net [206.50.200.75]) by mailhost.onramp.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA20834 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:31:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from james [144.19.62.4] by acs_dc [144.19.62.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:37:41 -0500 Received: by james with Microsoft Mail id <01BD9F41.B60651C0@james>; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:28:41 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD9F41.B60651C0@james> From: James Roberts To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Port Aransas Beach Trip Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:28:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: footbag@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Are there any shredders in the Corpus Christi area? I'll be in Port A this weekend (June 25-28) with hopes of not playing solo. JR From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jun 24 14:53:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA23578 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:53:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Frankgut@aol.com Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo32.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2] (may be forged)) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA13727 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:17:07 -0700 Received: from Frankgut@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id OYSa011468; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 04:16:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <653b4eae.3590b5e3@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 04:16:34 EDT To: StinKyKiwi@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Help, etc. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I do to agree that all-stars aren't the best freestyle shoes in the world, but that doesn't mean that they are "no, no, no" bad freestyle shoes either. To each his own, that is what freestyle is. My net shoes may not compare to rod lavers, but I can still bust some phat combos with them. I bet if I kicked with them for a year my knees would thank me, and beg me not to go back to the lavers. Frank From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jun 24 14:53:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA23575 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:53:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: JSBX@aol.com Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA16130 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 06:00:25 -0700 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id EKEFa12329; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:59:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:59:48 EDT To: bugpowdr@MIT.EDU, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Dragon Add Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all. I disagree, if the only way to do dragons involved serious hip pivots, then a body would be justified, but since I and others can do dragons in the same position as clippers, it would be hard to make a case for the extra add. One thing i will admit, is that setting moves from a dragon is harder than setting them from a clipper, but since sets don't usually matter in terms of changing difficulty or add counts, it too is a moot point. I just like to do dragons because they look so different. E-mail me what combinations you can do with dragons. Off of a butter dragon i can do a dragon set mirage, and yesterday i did my first dragon set swirl. Shred happy, KeN From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jun 24 23:49:48 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA26983 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:49:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (www.callplus.co.nz [202.27.101.18]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23570 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:33:34 -0700 Received: by www.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:32:47 +1200 Message-ID: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C1602DD@www.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Dragon Add Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:32:45 +1200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I thought the whole idea was that an add is an element of difficulty? > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Burgess [SMTP:e@who.net] > Sent: Wednesday, 24 June 1998 18:32 > To: Samuel A Hires > Cc: Freestyle@footbag.org > Subject: Re: [freestyle] Dragon Add > > > > Samuel A Hires wrote: > > > Okay, I think most mere mortals agree that a dragon is at > least as hard as an Osis. > > well, the deal is, adds don't really represent difficulty. sad but > true. but you'll get major respect for the dragon, and isn't that > better than another measley add? > > e From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jun 25 05:53:41 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA28466 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 05:53:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f113.hotmail.com [207.82.251.43]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA26449 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:36:32 -0700 Received: (qmail 10823 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jun 1998 03:36:03 -0000 Message-ID: <19980625033603.10822.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.80.32.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:36:02 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.80.32.172] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Dragon Add Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:36:02 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "I thought the whole idea was that an add is an element of difficulty?" Well yes and no, element yes, difficulty maybe. The original idea was anything that you add to the kick (say a dex or a stall) is adding to the difficulty, hence adds. The problem is that it's hard to say exactly how hard a move is. Although we can say that in general a dragon is harder than a clipper this isn't always true I used to kick with a guy who could easily do dragons and couldn't do a clipper to save his life. Any move will always be easier for one person than another. So although we can't say that a clipper is exactly as hard a clipper or even that one is always harder than the other we can say that there are two elements in each move that make them hard. Now in defence of the dragon I think that out side and knee stalls should count as unusual surfaces. Although they are usual kicking surfaces they are not usual surfaces to stall on. Which brings me to my main argument against the add system. I think the main thing the add system is really missing are better element definitions, specifically the abused body add and in my opinion the unfair unusual surface add, but really there aren't that many moves that slip through the cracks. -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jun 25 16:42:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA30759 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:42:20 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f215.hotmail.com [207.82.251.106]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA31844 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 06:22:16 -0700 Received: (qmail 28364 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jun 1998 14:21:38 -0000 Message-ID: <19980625142138.28363.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.148.99.162 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:21:37 PDT X-Originating-IP: [204.148.99.162] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Dragon Add Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:21:37 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >I thought the whole idea was that an add is an element of difficulty? OK, everyone needs to try this experiment. Next time you kick, do butterfly, into osis, into paradox mirage. Then do in-spinning mirage, into atom-smasher, into double switch-over. The add system leaves many moves with the short end of the stick. As ingenious as the add system is, it has proven to be somewhat a disservice to footbag by "de-incentivizing" certain moves by their lack of adds. However, I will admit that the concept of guiltlessness is a more positive result. "Adds are (mostly) bunk" Dan Kramer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jun 25 17:08:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA31032 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:08:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01371 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:02:49 -0700 Received: from [206.66.71.203] (dhcptest44 [206.66.71.203]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10105; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980625142138.28363.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:05:42 -0700 To: "Daniel Kramer" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: RE: [freestyle] Dragon Add Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 7:21 AM -0700 6/25/98, Daniel Kramer wrote: >The add system leaves many moves with the short end of the stick. I want to set the record straight about adds. Let me start by saying that everyone agrees that the add system is broken. But nobody has come up with a better system that has been widely adopted. The add system currently just gives us a rough basis for ranking difficulty and variety of tricks. Now, why is the add system broken? It's simple: Freestyle footbag has changed RADICALLY in the last 10 years. The add system was invented before this radical change took place. In the old days of freestyle footbag, stalling was a new concept! People like Jack Schoolcraft, who basically defined the sport at that point, hardly did any stalls. And what stalls they did certainly weren't in the middle of combinations of multiple dexterities. The types of tricks they did were clipper kicks, flying clipper kicks, butterfly kicks, spinning butterfly kicks, dragonfly kicks, spinning dragonfly kicks, toe stalls, possibly mirages and osises, etc. When you're just looking at these types of tricks, it's pretty easy to see how to the add system they came up with made sense: each "add" represented an additional level of difficulty. So if you *spun* into a flying clipper, that was an extra add over just doing a regular flying clipper. If you did a *flying* clipper, that was an extra add over doing a regular clipper (kick). If you did a *clipper* kick, that was an extra add over doing an inside kick. With the advent of Kenny Shults' insane combos, and the likes of Rippin' Rick, Dave Yevin, Joe Schaeffer, Peter Irish, Eric Wulff, and others, tight combinations of stalls where legs were thrown around the bag, sometimes multiple times, and moves like paradox and gyrating moves starting coming into existence, the previous add system began to fall apart. The bulk of "advanced" freestylers today (most of them on this mailing list) are disciples of the Kenny/Rippin' skool of freestyle -- a one-time black art that has now spread throughout the world -- that clearly doesn't fit the paradigm of the old add system. It's sort of a paradox in and of itself that players even *think* about adds when shredding. Competition is another thing, since adds factor into the variety component (but Dan Kramer's all over this one and I agree with him for the most part). But that's all I have time for now. See you. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jun 25 23:12:54 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA00565 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:12:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (www.callplus.co.nz [202.27.101.18]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06154 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:36:51 -0700 Received: by www.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:35:57 +1200 Message-ID: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C160319@www.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Dragon Add Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:35:55 +1200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org IMHO You should recieve an extra Body add for any non-paradox tricks that require 3 plants. Eg. Toe Set Blur, Scrambled Eggbeater etc. Although this may sound confusing, to hit these tricks you have to be pretty switched on to how the add system works anyways. Later! > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Kramer [SMTP:grandincredible@hotmail.com] > Sent: Friday, 26 June 1998 02:22 > To: freestyle@footbag.org > Subject: RE: [freestyle] Dragon Add > > >I thought the whole idea was that an add is an element of difficulty? > > OK, everyone needs to try this experiment. Next time you kick, do > butterfly, into osis, into paradox mirage. Then do in-spinning mirage, > > into atom-smasher, into double switch-over. > > The add system leaves many moves with the short end of the stick. > > As ingenious as the add system is, it has proven to be somewhat a > disservice to footbag by "de-incentivizing" certain moves by their > lack > of adds. However, I will admit that the concept of guiltlessness is a > more positive result. > > "Adds are (mostly) bunk" > > Dan Kramer > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jun 27 07:45:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA14992 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:45:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pigeon.vut.edu.au (pigeon.vut.edu.AU [140.159.30.12]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA23681 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:00:55 -0700 Received: from village.vut.edu.au (erskine@village.vut.edu.au [140.159.61.126]) by pigeon.vut.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04188 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:04:29 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (erskine@localhost) by village.vut.edu.au (8.9.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA27080 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:03:55 +1000 Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:03:54 +1000 (EST) From: ERSKINE Brendan To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] New footbag trick? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org A fellow freestyle footbagger and I in Australia have devised a move which is based on the move known as a helium. From a squeeze the bag is rolled down the calf and achilles until it reaches the heel in which it is flung over the head. The move is very fluent which resembles a pendulum and we have named it the tsunami. We are unsure if the move has ever been named or achieved by someone. We are also wanting the know the add value of such a move in which mainly involves a roll and an unusual suface contact. I am not up to date with the add values given to rolls, or even if they are given any adds. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jun 27 07:53:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA15021 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:53:14 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pigeon.vut.edu.au (pigeon.vut.edu.AU [140.159.30.12]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA23862 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:36:22 -0700 Received: from village.vut.edu.au (erskine@village.vut.edu.au [140.159.61.126]) by pigeon.vut.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00488 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:40:14 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (erskine@localhost) by village.vut.edu.au (8.9.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA27509 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:40:00 +1000 Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:39:59 +1000 (EST) From: ERSKINE Brendan To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Footbag trick Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm wondering whether anyone has ever completed a standing mirage/reverse mirage in which the dexterity leg remains on the ground. A variation of these moves is a symposium and pixie/fairy standing mirages. A fellow footbagger i kick with in Melbourne has completed a standing mirage so i assume that someone must have done it. How many adds which such a move be worth and what is the add value of a standing move? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jun 27 08:25:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id IAA15274 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 08:25:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA25827 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:06:01 -0700 Received: from [206.66.71.224] (dhcptest65 [206.66.71.224]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA15273; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:05:03 -0700 To: ERSKINE Brendan From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag trick Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 8:39 PM -0700 6/26/98, ERSKINE Brendan wrote: >I'm wondering whether anyone has ever completed a standing mirage/reverse >mirage in which the dexterity leg remains on the ground. A variation of >these moves is a symposium and pixie/fairy standing mirages. A fellow >footbagger i kick with in Melbourne has completed a standing mirage so i >assume that someone must have done it. How many adds which such a move be >worth and what is the add value of a standing move? I think it's still 2 adds -- I knew a guy who used to kick with Richie Abshire down in San Diego named Fritz Reich who used to do a different standing mirage all the time where he planted his setting foot immediately after the set, did the dexterity with his other foot, and then managed to catch the footbag on his original setting foot pegged to the ground. It was rad. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jun 27 17:18:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA16503 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:18:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail.accnorwalk.com (mail.accnorwalk.com [207.87.221.24]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA27316 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 03:13:33 -0700 Received: from vernd.geotrac.com ([207.87.222.34]) by mail.accnorwalk.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release 0122 ID# 564-48782U3500L350S0) with SMTP id AAA163 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:16:42 -0400 Received: by vernd.geotrac.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BDA19A.9C48E3A0@vernd.geotrac.com>; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:10:05 -0400 Message-ID: <01BDA19A.9C48E3A0@vernd.geotrac.com> From: Vern DeHaven To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] New footbag trick? Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:09:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org -----Original Message----- From: ERSKINE Brendan [SMTP:erskine@village.vut.edu.au] >A fellow freestyle footbagger and I in Australia have devised a move which >is based on the move known as a helium. From a squeeze the bag is >rolled down the calf and achilles until it reaches the heel in which it is >flung over the head. The move is very fluent which resembles a pendulum >and we have named it the tsunami. If the bag rests on the heel for any amount of time, I'd give it 3. Sounds phat to me! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jun 29 06:46:34 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA15118 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 06:46:34 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: JSBX@aol.com Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11832 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 19:54:39 -0700 Received: from JSBX@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id OLASa17154 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 23:54:04 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <5b454c49.35970fdd@aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 23:54:04 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] adds Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This stuff was said earlier: "A fellow freestyle footbagger and I in Australia have devised a move which >is based on the move known as a helium. From a squeeze the bag is >rolled down the calf and achilles until it reaches the heel in which it is >flung over the head. The move is very fluent which resembles a pendulum >and we have named it the tsunami. If the bag rests on the heel for any amount of time, I'd give it 3. Sounds phat to me! " I really don't think people should try and assign adds to rakes, wraps, eclipses or pendulums. They really don't fit into the categories very nicely, and if you hit any move involving rakes/heliums/eclipses or other moves where you move the bag around your body, you should just be happy that you hit it, and not worry about the adds. KeN From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jun 29 14:43:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA16829 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 14:43:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: ispin12s@STARLINX.com Received: from ntsvr2wg.starlinx.com (ntsvr2wg-e0.starlinx.com [207.103.34.1] (may be forged)) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA15656 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 06:02:37 -0700 Received: from ntsvr2wg ([207.103.34.2]) by ntsvr2wg.starlinx.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 519-48023U1000L100S0) with SMTP id AAA172 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:01:53 -0400 Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:01:53 +0100 Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds To: freestyle@footbag.org Reply-To: ispin12s@STARLINX.com Priority: normal Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: <19980629130153775.AAA172@ntsvr2wg> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi guys and gals, With so much controversy and anguish over the existing add system, what is keeping the kicking massive to convert to a more suitable rating system, like a 1-10 rating system used by figure skating or gymnastics? (each move getting a difficulty rating when invented, and freestyle routines being rated by a group of very experianced kickers splitting up the score into different catagories, technical, style, etc.) Im sure there is many objections to this, but there seems to be a need for alternate rating system. Im also suprised there have not been any other suggestions... T.J. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jun 29 22:21:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA18854 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:21:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from firewall.telecom.co.nz (ingate.telecom.co.nz [146.171.254.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA22357 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 14:43:17 -0700 Received: by firewall.telecom.co.nz (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI.AUTO) for id JAA18752; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:44:05 +1200 Received: from ish.telecom.co.nz(146.171.1.1) by firewall.telecom.co.nz via smap (3.1) id xma017854; Tue, 30 Jun 98 09:40:51 +1200 Received: from telecom.co.nz ([146.171.53.205]) by ish.telecom.co.nz (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA5250 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:38:08 +1200 Received: from DOM#u#AKGATE-Message_Server by telecom.co.nz with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:43:21 +1200 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:45:47 +1200 From: Stuart MacFerson To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I agree there is a very good case for a figure skating type difficulty rating system. Perhaps it's the only way to go if everyone keeps shooting down the add system and noone comes up with a better solution. But just imagine the palava as every man and his dog wants their latest hair brain move officially rated and documented. There would have to be pretty strict procedures to follow if this is to be implemented. I'm not against the add system, I think it does an awesome job for its age and is surprisingly accurate when considering the range of tricks these days. Maybe all it needs is a few sensible modifications?? Stu >>> 29/June/1998 08:01pm >>> anguish over the existing add system, what is keeping the kicking massive to convert to a more suitable rating system, like a 1-10 rating system used by figure skating or gymnastics? (each move getting a difficulty rating when invented, and freestyle routines being rated by a group of very experianced kickers splitting up the score into different catagories, technical, style, etc.) Im sure there is many objections to this, but there seems to be a need for alternate rating system. Im also suprised there have not been any other suggestions... T.J.