From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 1 05:49:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA05431 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 05:49:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from TAO.sou.edu (root@Tao.sou.edu [140.211.92.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00322 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:17:16 -0700 Received: from 206.151.159.11 (dyn-1-09.sou.mind.net [206.151.159.11]) by TAO.sou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA12755 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35EAEB35.4EDE@tao.sou.edu> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:28:05 -0800 From: "schrodt, forest" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re:scorpion tail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Steve and others. I think JP is right, the scorpions tail is a down spinning double down not a gyro barfly. I would like to know what a gyro barfly is called and who is hitting it. Sounds like a pretty hard trick. Look foward to seeing some of you at the Beaver Open in Salem, Oregon this weekend :) Forest From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 1 17:16:50 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA04959 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:16:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send104.yahoomail.com (send104.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.122]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA06112 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:15:18 -0700 Message-ID: <19980901171540.11794.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Received: from [161.98.1.204] by send104.yahoomail.com; Tue, 01 Sep 1998 10:15:40 PDT Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:15:40 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re:scorpion tail (gyro d-d) To: "schrodt, forest" Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Kenny (Shults) at 96 World's said that he hadn't heard of anyone hitting that before, but six mos. later in Dallas, i saw Rippin' hit it cleanly- also on camera (dim light), also on "Rye Shred" Eli ---"schrodt, forest" wrote: > > Hi Steve and others. I think JP is right, the scorpions tail is a down > spinning double down not a gyro barfly. > I would like to know what a gyro barfly is called and who is hitting > it. Sounds like a pretty hard trick. > > Look foward to seeing some of you at the Beaver Open in Salem, Oregon > this weekend :) > Forest > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 1 19:41:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA14904 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:41:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f208.hotmail.com [207.82.251.99]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA07160 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:54:25 -0700 Received: (qmail 3975 invoked by uid 0); 1 Sep 1998 18:53:50 -0000 Message-ID: <19980901185350.3974.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.191.182 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 01 Sep 1998 11:53:50 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.191.182] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re:scorpion tail (gyro d-d) Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 11:53:50 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org [gyro barfly] >Kenny (Shults) at 96 World's said that he hadn't heard of anyone >hitting that before, but six mos. later in Dallas, i saw Rippin' hit >it cleanly- also on camera (dim light), also on "Rye Shred" > >Eli Scott D. hits that all over the place. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 1 19:42:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA14910 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:42:10 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from golden.net (golden.net [199.166.210.183]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07663 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:41:18 -0700 Received: from [209.183.132.66] (AS52-22-66.cas-kit.golden.net [209.183.132.66]) by golden.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA06356 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:41:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:41:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freestyle@footbag.org From: kuchma@golden.net (Mike Kuchma) Subject: [freestyle] Alternatives to add Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello fellow kickers! Occassionaly on this discussion group, some people make denigrating remarks about the add system for rating freestyle move difficulty. If the add system is truly as illogical and antiquated as some kickers claim, then what are some of the suggested alternatives for rating difficulty? Just curious. Mike From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 1 21:00:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA32043 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:00:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08322 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:15:43 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA05722; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:14:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx5-28.ix.netcom.com(207.94.121.156) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005687; Tue Sep 1 15:14:12 1998 Message-ID: <35EB0574.1112@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:20:04 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Kuchma CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Alternatives to add References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mike Kuchma wrote: > > Hello fellow kickers! > > Occassionaly on this discussion group, some people make denigrating remarks > about the add system for rating freestyle move difficulty. Yep. Adds don't tell you exactly how hard a move is. Atom smasher is 3 adds while ripwalk and dada are 4. But, they do give you a general idea. Not all 2 add moves are easier than a butterfly or osis, but most are. It is the same way with threes and fours. Not all 3 add moves are easier than ripwalk or torque, but most are. That is the one drawback of going tripless... you lose the cool threes that are difficult. > what are some of the suggested alternatives for rating difficulty? My favorite system involves trying the moves. If I fall down, that means the trick is pretty hard. If I hit it first, second, and third try, then the move isn't too bad. Adds are only good for making people string together difficult moves. If you go guiltless, does that mean that you *really* have to hit only three add moves or better? Watch some of the shred tapes where Peter Irish throws in his gimping moves (not just guilt, but tilt) and tell me he looks guilty. The only reason the add system is still around (besides judging) is to keep people from throwing toe stalls in the middle of their strings. If a move looks cool, do it. If you get lip about it being only one or two adds, ask yourself, "do I feel guilty for doing that move?" That is what guiltless is and that is more important than adds. Freestyle is about respect and making other people go "whoa! that was cool!" Do that and have fun. Who cares about competitions or counting adds? -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 1 21:18:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA07802 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:18:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: SuperOwen@aol.com Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id WRLEa26915; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <80a5f8fb.35ec628e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:09:34 EDT To: scalf@utdallas.edu, freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Alternatives to add Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org You know, I'd like to thank D. I never realized till just now that why should I be worrying aobut doing about doing tough tricks, if it makes people say "shoa! that was cool!" do it. I'd just like to say thank you From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 1 22:29:41 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA25016 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:29:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: SethBek@aol.com Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA09688 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:58:41 -0700 Received: from SethBek@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id ONKPa17586 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4e92acad.35ec6dd0@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:57:36 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Alternatives to add Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 9/1/98 5:15:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, scalf@utdallas.edu writes: > Freestyle is about > respect and making other people go "whoa! that was cool!" hehe.. 1 point for every `wow` 2 points for a `cool!` 3 points for a `daaaaaaaaang!!` 4 points for a `do that again!` 5 ponts for a `i bet you cant do THAT twice` 6 points for a *faint* :-) -Seth :-) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 2 00:01:57 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA18021 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:01:57 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f131.hotmail.com [207.82.251.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA11192 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:54:10 -0700 Received: (qmail 11658 invoked by uid 0); 1 Sep 1998 23:53:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19980901235339.11657.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 129.37.250.83 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 01 Sep 1998 16:53:38 PDT X-Originating-IP: [129.37.250.83] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Lavers Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 19:53:38 EDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Anyone know where I can order some? The place I used to get them from don't sell them any more. Steve Miskiewicz ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 2 00:30:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA26541 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:30:26 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA11594 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:25:18 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA13693; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:25:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcp205-41.atext.com(205.180.137.41) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013625; Tue Sep 1 19:24:31 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980901235339.11657.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:24:22 -0700 To: "Steve Miskiewicz" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Lavers Cc: Freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 7:53 PM -0400 9/1/98, Steve Miskiewicz wrote: >Anyone know where I can order some? The place I used to get them from >don't sell them any more. Hmmm. How many times has *this* one been asked on the list? I guess without being overly commercial it would be sensible to inform you of the very convenient, very functional on-line catalog the WFA puts up. It's actually a service to the footbag community. The prices have come way down and the utility of their offerings has gone up. See http://worldfootbag.com -- it's there mostly as a service to you as a player. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 2 01:19:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA10737 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:19:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11959 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:07:55 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id VAA07049; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:14:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:14:00 -0400 (EDT) From: They Call me Josh To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Alternatives to adds In-Reply-To: <4e92acad.35ec6dd0@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > 1 point for every `wow` > 2 points for a `cool!` > 3 points for a `daaaaaaaaang!!` > 4 points for a `do that again!` > 5 ponts for a `i bet you cant do THAT twice` > 6 points for a *faint* :-) How many do i get for a "which way to the public bathroom?" U got that one five times today. > > Freestyle is about > > respect and making other people go "whoa! that was cool!" Is it? It's too bad Ethan is in Asia, to inject here his personal brand of flowing consciousness- I'll have to improv. Footbag is many things to many people. Some call it sport, for healthy body and mind. Some say it's just a silly activity for kids and washouts. Some (justifiably) call it art, and I have seen many use it as social lubricant. IMO it's about gratification thru personal achievement. Even when I haven't been skooling and all I can do is toe stall to other toe stall, it's an enjoyable hobby - and much cheaper than golfing, billiards or fillatily. No doubt it's great to go out in public and show off, to listen to the passers-by, yelling "hey! what the heck are you doing!?!" No doubt other players and many non-players see the difficulty and shout encouragement and respect, but I think I'd still be playing without it. adios- JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 2 04:06:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA29373 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 04:06:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Allman144@aol.com Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id IAGSa12640 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:52:24 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:52:24 EDT To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Kicking habits Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 167 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, I am just wondering about everyone's kicking habits. Like how often you kick a week. I like to kick every other day because when I am done kicking I like to run. I give my legs a day's rest in between. What about all you other guys and girls? I would appreciate some input so I can just get some ideas. Thanks a lot! Sincerely, Tony Glick The Ohio Footbag Association (which consists of me and my footbag) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 2 08:02:51 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id IAA23636 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:02:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA15388 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:00:53 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA10196; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 02:57:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcp205-36.atext.com(205.180.137.36) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma010166; Wed Sep 2 02:56:15 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000601bdd4f8$50f73c80$c151aacc@reaelec> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:56:05 -0700 To: "Ralph Allebach" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] scorpion's tail notation Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:58 AM -0400 8/31/98, Ralph Allebach wrote: >I keep hearing about this trick called the scorpian's tail. Can someone >please post its notation. Okay, all fixed. http://www.footbag.org/moves/find/scorpion Better yet, check out the new online video demonstration (in this case, by the one and only Eric Wulff)! Just go to the above list entry and click the link that says "video demonstration". I'm just getting started. Over the next week or so, watch the list as it grows. To see the available moves on video, go to http://www.footbag.org/movelist and click the link "Moves on Video". You just need the quicktime plugin, but believe me it's worth it. :-) Steve P.S. There are currently 15 moves with video demonstrations. I recorded about 45 but it takes forever to edit and upload as you may imagine, so bear with me. Thanks to Eric Wulff, Ahren Gehrman, Carol Wedemeyer, and Tu Vu for being my models for this first installment. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 2 15:17:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA00268 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:17:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: SuperOwen@aol.com Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id IAFZa11929; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:40:12 EDT To: Allman144@aol.com, freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Kicking habits Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I usually try to kick at night, that way it's cool, and for about 45 minutes. I also like to listen to some good ska music while I'm kicking. Also, if I'm sitting inside and I have nothing to do I'll practice a few stalls or something. I also take it with me everywhere so in case there's some downtime while i'm out I can kick a bit. BUt that's just me. Total Package From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 2 19:38:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA11771 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:38:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from postal.interaccess.com (postal.interaccess.com [207.70.126.134]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA20666 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:11:50 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.131] (d131.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.131]) by postal.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA01179; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:12:53 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:11:31 -0600 To: KAPLAN BRADLEY M , freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter Subject: Re: [freestyle] reverse blender/dino Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Brad! >> I've been calling it "Twirling Swirl". Very good. Now try "Symposium >> Twirl" and "Paradox Twirl" > > In whichever notation you prefer could you please explain how the >symposium and paradox twirls would go. For some reason I can't get the >picture in my head. > Okay, here goes: Symposium Twirl: (Longhand, example = Left side) Set from right clipper (on left side of body), set straight up between knee and mid thigh level. Plant your right leg, then leap from right leg bringing your right leg up along the back of your leg (not touching, but for example's sake) and over ("back" away from your body), now land on your right leg and catch with a left osis (left leg on right side of body, cross-body inside from behind). I have hit this out of Blurry Whirl and Symposium Paradox Whirl and into paradox whirl and paradox twirl, makes for great combos!!! Notation attempt (very wrong, I am sure)... Symposium Twirl: R Clip > R Plant > R Dex Front to Back > L Osis Paradox Twirl: (Longhand, Example = Left) Start with Left Clipper Delay (on right side of body), set straight up at exactly mid thigh level, slightly turn to the right and bring your right leg up the back of your leg and over the bag on the left side of your body (front to back dexterity) then plant your right leg as you do a left osis. Notation attempt (again, I am certain this is wrong)... Paradox Twirl: L Clip > R Dex Front to Back > L Osis (Jobes notation really needs a revamping so it works with swirls and twirls which the dex goes back to front or front to back, but not in-out.) Note: I was really hesitant to call this "Paradox" Twirl a paradox, until I talked to the Boyz and found that they agree that it is paradox. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 2 19:38:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA11777 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:38:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from [207.208.101.131] (d131.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.131]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA09004; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:22:35 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:21:16 -0600 To: Allman144@aol.com, freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org From: Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter Subject: Re: [freestyle] Kicking habits Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Everyone! At 11:52 PM -0400 9/1/98, Allman144@aol.com wrote: >Hey all, I am just wondering about everyone's kicking habits. Like how often >you kick a week. I like to kick every other day because when I am done kicking >I like to run. I give my legs a day's rest in between. What about all you >other guys and girls? I would appreciate some input so I can just get some >ideas. Thanks a lot! I kick an hour a day, gotta go shred now! I skip lunch, and eat fruit all day when hungry. Using lunch as my workout (play) time, I can still get stuff done at home at night. I kick 5 days a week and weekends whenever possible, weekends are usually in front of crowds so instead of skoolin' moves (and mongo combos), I focus on long strings. On weekdays, I always do the same warm ups, and skool my 4's linking, then usually move onto 5's, picking a few and skoolin' them until I hit each of them (on both sides usually) from 4's or 5's and into 4's or 5's. I recommend pushing your "perceived" limits, but also master your "basics". I believe running is bad for my legs, but walking is boring. Sam Conlon walks/runs backwards to strengthen her hamstrings, which are overburdened by her quadracepts (I think). If anything, I would cross train my upperbody so I can go longer with more resistance to lactic acid burn. Your legs get plenty of workout from freestyle. Personal: Hi Tony! How ya doin'? Nice to see ya at Malta, keep shreddin'! See ya! gotta go shred!!!!!! Scott Davidson enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 3 00:58:38 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA31640 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:58:38 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24618 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:50:57 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.131] (d107.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.107]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA07271; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:42:00 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:46:05 -0600 To: KAPLAN BRADLEY M , freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter Subject: Re: [freestyle] reverse blender/dino Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! >Symposium Twirl: (Longhand, example = Left side) >Paradox Twirl: (Longhand, Example = Left) Just wanted to let you know that today I hit (five times) L Symposium Paradox Twirl (6 adds and lots of personal accomplishment). I hit it out of Blurry Whirl and into Paradox whirl once. Symposium Paradox Twirl (Longhand, Example = Left) Left Clipper (left cross-body inside delay on right side of the body), set at just below hip height and slightly towards center of body, turn slightly to the right and plant right leg, leap off of right leg and circle the bag on the left side of the body with the right leg (shin) going up the back of the left leg and from front to back then land on right leg and catch with left osis. Hint: set is lower than you think. "You are limited only by your own perceptions" My new motto. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 3 00:59:55 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA31655 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:59:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mindspring.com (user-38ld0tj.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.131.179]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24947; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35EDD752.7912777@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 19:40:03 -0400 From: ryan Reply-To: masuga@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Allman144@aol.com CC: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Kicking habits References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I kick on the weekends only. Not because I couldn't stand to kick every day, but I just don't have the time. That's what my weekends are for - 4-8 hours on a Satuday and usually 4-6 hours on a Sunday. I need all week for my legs to recover... ryan NYFA From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 3 00:59:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA31673 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:59:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: ShReDStEiN@aol.com Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id OKWAa10121; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:07:36 EDT To: SuperOwen@aol.com, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, Allman144@aol.com, freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle] Kicking habits Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 9/2/98 12:01:31 PM, SuperOwen@AOL.COM wrote: <> How can you not love this guy LOL... keep stylin my fellow shred heads... ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 3 00:59:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA31674 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:59:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: ShReDStEiN@aol.com Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24787; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 16:06:24 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id GBICa17586; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:04:50 EDT To: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Alternatives to adds Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 9/1/98 5:22:00 PM, jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu wrote: <> We (OOPS footbag club stylers) hear this at every session... Its the story of my career...Shred on ... ::Danger: Stand clear of the blade:: Later Guys. ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 3 14:02:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA23474 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:02:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from TAO.sou.edu (root@Tao.sou.edu [140.211.92.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA31305 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 01:14:14 -0700 Received: from 206.151.159.62 (dyn-2-29.sou.mind.net [206.151.159.62]) by TAO.sou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA16647 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 01:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35EDB7AF.4A2E@tao.sou.edu> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 13:25:03 -0800 From: "schrodt, forest" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Alternatives to adds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just wanted to thank JP. (you gotta love this guy) Thank you for clarifying that footbag is not just an image oriented sport, that it does different things for different people. I love it when passer-byers show their awe at what I we are doing but I know that this is only a small part of why I kick. I would still kick if their was even less recconition given to what I am doing. The challenge of trying to do and doing what once seemed impossible is one of things that inspires me. I find that footbag helps clear my mind much like yoga does but in a different way. I have to say that the main thing that keeps me addictively kicking is that state of zone that sometimes occurs, where time seems to slow down and I feel a heightened state of being. This can happen in most sports but there is something special when it happens while playing footbag or while beating up little fury things! :) Forest >>JP wrote: Footbag is many things to many people. Some call it sport, for healthy body and mind. Some say it's just a silly activity for kids and washouts. Some (justifiably) call it art, and I have seen many use it as social lubricant. IMO it's about gratification thru personal achievement. Even when I haven't been skooling and all I can do is toe stall to other toe stall, it's an enjoyable hobby - and much cheaper than golfing, billiards or fillatily. No doubt it's great to go out in public and show off, to listen to the passers-by, yelling "hey! what the heck are you doing!?!" No doubt other players and many non-players see the difficulty and shout encouragement and respect, but I think I'd still be playing without it. adios- JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 5 08:03:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id IAA21808 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:03:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA23829 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:40:45 -0700 Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA11085 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 21:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doomnet6.idirect.com (doomnet6.idirect.com [207.136.87.6]) by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA13736 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 21:40:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by doomnet6.idirect.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BDD907.8559DF60@doomnet6.idirect.com>; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 19:58:16 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDD907.8559DF60@doomnet6.idirect.com> From: Rob Howe To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Ideas, Thanks, Etc. Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 19:58:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id BAA15531 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok, some quick questions: As a beginner I'm thinking about getting a good freestyle footbag now that I am employed. I'm looking to spend around 20$. Which footbag would best suit my needs? Thank you for putting up the videos on the footbag.org movelist. Seeing people hit moves like that makes me want to go and kick until I can do them myself. And last, Does anyone know of any footbag tourneys that might be taking place in Ontario? Thanks In Advance Rob "trainee" Howe From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 5 08:03:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id IAA22257 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:03:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from vcn.bc.ca (marigold@opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12036 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 23:18:53 -0700 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA01724 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 23:18:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 23:18:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Verhoef Anne To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Move name? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, I've been trying this move for and have been coming really close: CLIP > OP IN DEX > (BACK) SPIN > OP IN DEX > OP TOE Miraging gyro mirage?? I think this miraging gyro concept can be used as a prefix for other moves such as whirl, butterfly. So miraging gyro butterfly would be: CLIP > OP IN DEX > (BACK) SPIN > OP IN DEX > OP CLIP Any input would be appreciated, Adrian V. -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 5 08:03:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id IAA21756 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:03:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from geocities.com (mail2.geocities.com [209.1.224.30]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24000 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 19:08:12 -0700 Received: from oemcomputer (207-172-164-62.s62.as7.loc.erols.com [207.172.164.62]) by geocities.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA00238 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 19:08:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000901bdd88b$2926bbe0$3ea4accf@oemcomputer> From: "Ospry" To: "Freestyle" Subject: [freestyle] Gonna be in Virginia... Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 22:08:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDD850.7B5FC860" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDD850.7B5FC860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey, I'm gonna be in Alexandria, Virginia sometime in the next two = weeks. I would love to see someone shred live. I haven't actually seen = anybody do it "for real". Let me know if anyone lives near there. Real near, as my transportation = will be relatively nil. -Opsry ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDD850.7B5FC860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey, I'm gonna be in Alexandria, = Virginia=20 sometime in the next two weeks. I would love to see someone shred live. = I=20 haven't actually seen anybody do it "for real".
Let me know if anyone lives near = there. Real=20 near, as my transportation will be relatively nil.
 
-Opsry
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDD850.7B5FC860-- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Sep 6 18:02:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA07634 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:02:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f143.hotmail.com [207.82.251.22]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA32530 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:05:34 -0700 Received: (qmail 27606 invoked by uid 0); 5 Sep 1998 19:05:04 -0000 Message-ID: <19980905190504.27605.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 136.159.117.140 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 05 Sep 1998 12:05:03 PDT X-Originating-IP: [136.159.117.140] From: "hackyin' hank" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Ideas, Thanks, Etc. Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 12:05:03 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > >Ok, some quick questions: > >As a beginner I'm thinking about getting a good freestyle footbag now >that I am employed. I'm looking to spend around 20$. Hey Rob, I was wondering that same thing so I looked around a bit, my search brought me to Sport Check, where I bought the adidas bag. It works pretty good for me and I bought it for about 16$. I don't know what the others think about the bag but I really like it. Good luck. Dustin <> Smith ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Sep 6 18:27:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA16232 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:27:20 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: StinKyKiwi@aol.com Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11003 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:15:21 -0700 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id OTZGa16074 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 14:14:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 14:14:40 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Ideas, Thanks, Etc. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org For all you wanting a 32 panel bag, Email me. I just sold my first bag, and have two more guys lined up that want one from this list. I make them out of facile..and use small beads to make them good for freestyle. I've been making then for about 5 months, and since my name isn't out there in the custom bag "market", I am only charging 15 dollars for now. Get in touch with me if you are interested and I can give you more information. Matt Avery Avery bags PS, any BAP on this list..please Email me. I really want to send a couple bags to you guys for free, that are already broken in so you can tell me what you think. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 7 18:18:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA30312 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:18:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f274.hotmail.com [207.82.251.165]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA21110 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 06:47:13 -0700 Received: (qmail 21499 invoked by uid 0); 7 Sep 1998 13:46:42 -0000 Message-ID: <19980907134642.21498.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 129.187.123.173 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 07 Sep 1998 06:46:41 PDT X-Originating-IP: [129.187.123.173] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Alternatives to adds Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 06:46:41 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > 1 point for every `wow` > 2 points for a `cool!` > 3 points for a `daaaaaaaaang!!` > 4 points for a `do that again!` > 5 ponts for a `i bet you cant do THAT twice` > 6 points for a *faint* :-) > No doubt other players and many non-players see the difficulty and shout encouragement and respect, but I think I'd still be playing without it. One would hope so, in the last few months I have heard in 3 or 4 different languages how silly, comical, strange, or just plain rediculous our little sport seems to them. Strangely this wasn`t the same reaction that a nice tripless combo or a vortex garnered back home. Also as I reacall from the crowds back home the system mentioned above would probably rank pendulum above scorpians tail in difficulty, so maybe we will just hold onto the add system for a while. -Andrew P.S. Scott D. you are one sick mofo. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 7 18:19:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA30332 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:19:10 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f202.hotmail.com [207.82.251.93]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA14206 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:57:52 -0700 Received: (qmail 13147 invoked by uid 0); 6 Sep 1998 23:57:21 -0000 Message-ID: <19980906235721.13146.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 136.159.201.90 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 06 Sep 1998 16:57:20 PDT X-Originating-IP: [136.159.201.90] From: "hackyin' hank" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] SportCheck Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 16:57:20 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org It was a Sport Check in Canada ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 7 18:19:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA30344 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:19:13 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: bugpowdr@MIT.EDU Received: from MIT.EDU (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.69.0.28]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA12397 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 14:19:39 -0700 Received: from OGRE.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17501; Sun, 6 Sep 98 17:19:38 EDT Received: by ogre.MIT.EDU (5.57/4.7) id AA07909; Sun, 6 Sep 98 17:19:36 -0400 Message-Id: <9809062119.AA07909@ogre.MIT.EDU> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Move questions Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 17:19:36 EDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm coming close to hitting a move which I don't know the name and a good way to describe it. It could be TOE > OP OUT > (in Spin) > SAME CLIP the dexterity leg circle the bag 1 1/2 times. like an osis that goes between your legs with an extra dexterity. Anybody know this move? Andrew From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 7 18:19:12 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA30343 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:19:12 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11190 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:36:35 -0700 Received: from neon088 (ppp-206-171-239-170.psdn11.pacbell.net [206.171.239.170]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id LAA15456; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000401bdd9c5$3051e4e0$f99cfea9@neon088> From: "Sam Colclough" To: "hackyin' hank" , Subject: Re: [freestyle] Ideas, Thanks, Etc. Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:35:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >my search brought me to Sport Check, where I bought the adidas bag. It >works pretty good for me and I bought it for about 16$. I don't know >what the others think about the bag but I really like it. I like the Adidas footbag.. I think it is just as good as the Juice and breaks in just as well! Keep on kickin' -Sam Colclough From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 8 16:04:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA12415 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:04:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA30655 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:03:35 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA06514; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 01:03:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx36-52.ix.netcom.com(207.94.123.244) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma006512; Tue Sep 8 01:02:43 1998 Message-ID: <35F3786B.6D60@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 01:08:43 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bugpowdr@MIT.EDU CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move questions References: <9809062119.AA07909@ogre.MIT.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org bugpowdr@MIT.EDU wrote: > > I'm coming close to hitting a move which I don't know the name and a > good way to describe it. It could be TOE > OP OUT > (in Spin) > SAME CLIP > the dexterity leg circle the bag 1 1/2 times. like an osis that goes between > your legs with an extra dexterity. Anybody know this move? > > Andrew Sounds to me like a motion. Setting it from opposite toe like that would make it kind of like a paradon bailed to osis type of thing. Try setting this move from different places... same toe, op toe, either clipper. Though I've never hit it, some people do this move 'blurry' which would be: clip > op in [dex] > op out [dex] > same out [dex] > (back) spin > same clip. Cool move. Kick on. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 9 01:05:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA02782 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:05:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.JSISHIPPING.COM ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA372 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:26:14 -0700 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:26:32 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDDB45.7073B720.ewulff@jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Move name? Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:26:31 -0700 Organization: JSI Shipping X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Adrian Verhoef wrote: >I've been trying this move for and have been coming really close: >CLIP > OP IN DEX > (BACK) SPIN > OP IN DEX > OP TOE Adrian, check with the Disco Ninja on this(Tuan Vu). I believe this is the "Leaning Jowler" and Tuan is the man who hits it. Eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 9 05:41:41 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA14916 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 05:41:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail.cgocable.net (mail.cgocable.net [24.226.1.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13466 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:09:17 -0700 Received: from zacho (cgowave-35-161.cgocable.net [24.226.35.161]) by mail.cgocable.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id XAA01161 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:09:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980908230807.007a1d30@cgocable.net> X-Sender: zacho@cgocable.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 23:08:07 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Gimpy Subject: RE: [freestyle] Move name? In-Reply-To: <01BDDB45.7073B720.ewulff@jsishipping.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org 'Leaning Jowler'? Nice. Has anyone ever played "Pass The Pigs"? -Gimpy >Adrian Verhoef wrote: >>I've been trying this move for and have been coming really close: >>CLIP > OP IN DEX > (BACK) SPIN > OP IN DEX > OP TOE > >Adrian, check with the Disco Ninja on this(Tuan Vu). I believe this is the >"Leaning Jowler" and Tuan is the man who hits it. > >Eric > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 9 05:51:12 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA14977 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 05:51:12 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14668 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:47:25 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA14991; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:46:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcptest56.atext.com(206.66.71.215) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma014974; Wed Sep 9 00:46:30 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980908230807.007a1d30@cgocable.net> References: <01BDDB45.7073B720.ewulff@jsishipping.com> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:46:40 -0700 To: Gimpy From: Steve Goldberg Subject: RE: [freestyle] Move name? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:08 PM -0400 9/8/98, Gimpy wrote: >'Leaning Jowler'? Nice. Has anyone ever played "Pass The Pigs"? Oh no, here we go again. :-) Steve P.S. Paul, please limit discussion on non-freestyle threads to a reasonable size, thanks. :-) Garlands away... From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 9 18:08:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA18421 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:08:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21490 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:24:15 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0EZ1003011QI7I@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:25:30 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 11:25:30 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] move name/adds To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org So I've been practicing paradox legbeaters and coming real close, but no dice yet. So just for sh*ts and giggles I decided to try this move to give one of my hips a rest: clip> same out dex> same in dex> op toe Or clipper set, same leg out to in dexterity, then bring the same leg back over (in to out), catch opposite toe. I've been thinking you get a paradox for it (making it 4 adds) as it starts the same as the paradox legbeater or (paradox atom-smasher?), but I wasn't sure. Also I've been calling it a Smashing Pumpkin (copyright infringement?), but it may already have a name. Could someone shred some light on this for me? Thanks, Brad From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 9 18:31:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA18546 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:31:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send1e.yahoomail.com (send1e.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA22575 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:28:55 -0700 Message-ID: <19980909182638.27635.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Received: from [161.98.1.204] by send1e; Wed, 09 Sep 1998 11:26:38 PDT Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:26:38 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Fwd- new rod lavers? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ---answerman@adidas.de wrote: > > Hi Eli, > > A new Rod Laver shoe is planned for next year. It will be an update to > the original Laver with an EVA midsole, making it lighter. The upper > dsign will also be slightly updated. However, the original Laver will > still be available as well. > See ya! > > -----Original Message----- > > > question: Is Adidas making a new Rod Laver tennis shoe? When will > > they be on the shelves? Will the old style still be available? What > > renovations have been made? > > > > Many footbag players are in dyer need of this info. please email me. > > My extreme gratitude. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 9 20:48:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA28399 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:48:13 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f215.hotmail.com [207.82.251.106]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA24514 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:38:23 -0700 Received: (qmail 1647 invoked by uid 0); 9 Sep 1998 20:37:37 -0000 Message-ID: <19980909203737.1646.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.181.80.185 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 09 Sep 1998 13:37:36 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.181.80.185] From: "Mr. Mojo Risin" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Rod Lavers Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 13:37:36 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone out there. Does ANYONE know where to get Laver's in Canada ???? I'm in the Toronto area so even somewhere around Buffalo would be handy! My All-Stars are falling apart !!! Dustin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 9 20:48:17 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA28405 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:48:17 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: SuperOwen@aol.com Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id IUXFa02821 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:14:25 EDT To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Good, Cheap Shoes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have two questions. Almost alike, yet different. What are some good, cheap ($20-$40) freestyle shoes? If any. And, what are some good shoes for freestyle other than Lavers? You see I usually kick in Teva's, but with the weather getting colder here in the North, I can't anymore. Thanks, Total Package P.S. Any one that saw the mail a few days ago from Matt Avery, Avery Bags, I got mine today in the mail, and it's good, damn good. But that's just me. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 9 22:27:56 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA21411 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:27:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: SuperOwen@aol.com Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id IRNYa11275 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:23:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:23:03 EDT To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Mirage Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just wanted to share my excitement with everyone. I just hit my first Mirage. It wasn't pretty, it wasn't graceful, but I did it. That's all. Owen From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 9 22:30:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA21431 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:30:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA25339 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:41:59 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id QAA16463; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:41:51 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:41:50 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move name/adds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sounds like a paradox tap. 4 adds. On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, KAPLAN BRADLEY M wrote: > So I've been practicing paradox legbeaters and coming real close, but > no dice yet. So just for sh*ts and giggles I decided to try this move to > give one of my hips a rest: > clip> same out dex> same in dex> op toe > Or clipper set, same leg out to in dexterity, then bring the same leg > back over (in to out), catch opposite toe. > I've been thinking you get a paradox for it (making it 4 adds) as it > starts the same as the paradox legbeater or (paradox atom-smasher?), but I > wasn't sure. Also I've been calling it a Smashing Pumpkin (copyright > infringement?), but it may already have a name. > Could someone shred some light on this for me? > > Thanks, > Brad > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 9 23:29:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA05778 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:29:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA25745 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:33:42 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA28710; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:33:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcp205-31.atext.com(205.180.137.31) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma028677; Wed Sep 9 17:32:27 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980909203737.1646.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:32:34 -0700 To: "Mr. Mojo Risin" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Rod Lavers Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:37 PM -0700 9/9/98, Dustin wrote: >Does ANYONE know where to get Laver's in Canada ???? I'm in the Toronto >area so even somewhere around Buffalo would be handy! My All-Stars are >falling apart !!! Okay, for the 15th time: :-) (1) You can't currently buy Rod Laver tennis shoes in retail stores in Canada, as far as I know; (2) You can easily buy Rod Laver tennis shoes through the mail on the web from the World Footbag Association -- they have an online catalog at http://worldfootbag.com -- if you support them, you're indirectly supporting the sport and our footbag community. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 9 23:29:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA05784 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:29:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: StinKyKiwi@aol.com Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA25761 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:34:25 -0700 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id ORFMa16073 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:33:45 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] move name/adds Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I seriously think that move is pdox...how can a move be paradox with a clip>same OUT Dont think so bro...more like a tap with clipper set. But then again..I dont know much about taps. Whats the notation for stepping butterfly? is that another name for pixi butterfly? Matt Avery bags From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 9 23:29:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA05805 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:29:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: StinKyKiwi@aol.com Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA26111 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:07:56 -0700 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id OSSWa17586 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7bf726df.35f70a27@aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:07:19 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Cant hit anything today? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wuz up all.. Im sure everyone has their days...can't hit anything big...and ya know what? It blows! I thought I was over those days...cause I have been doing great. Hitting a magellan the first try, and hitting DAWs finally...All I could hit today were 3s and a couple 4s..but my strings really dragged. I just try some more..then stop for the day.. Anyone have any suggestions to deal with these days..and not screw with your game? Check yall later! Matt Avery Avery bags From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 9 23:29:57 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA05818 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:29:57 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: SuperOwen@aol.com Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id IDHZa26914 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:19:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7bf71a62.35f70d18@aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:19:52 EDT To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Two Things Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org 1) Are there any freestylers in the Pittsburgh area? 2) How bout this trick, outside delay, set it, circle it with your foot in the outside position, kinda like a swirl, except it's an outside, not clipper. Has anyone ever tried this? Total Package From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 10 04:18:12 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA25671 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 04:18:12 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00797 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:10:41 -0700 Received: from mindspring.com (user-38ld11e.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.132.46]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22986; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:10:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35CE761B.33E4D646@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 00:25:01 -0400 From: ryan Reply-To: masuga@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: StinKyKiwi@aol.com CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move name/adds References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org StinKyKiwi@aol.com wrote: > I seriously think that move is pdox...how can a move be paradox with a > clip>same OUT What about Paradox Reverse Mirage: CLIP > SAME OUT > OP TOE (?) > Whats the notation for stepping butterfly? is that another name for pixi > butterfly? It would be something like: CLIP > OP IN > SAME OUT > OP CLIP Pixie Butterfly is more like: TOE > SAME IN > OP OUT > OP CLIP I'm not a notation master...anybody? ryan mass-uga NYFA Hi, JP! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 10 14:55:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA07895 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:55:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from postal.interaccess.com (postal.interaccess.com [207.70.126.134]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA12505 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 06:26:28 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.20] (d20.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.20]) by postal.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA05090; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:26:15 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:14:27 -0600 To: StinKyKiwi@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter Subject: Re: [freestyle] move name/adds Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Matt! >I seriously think that move is pdox...how can a move be paradox with a >clip>same OUT I still don't follow most of that notation stuff. >Whats the notation for stepping butterfly? is that another name for pixi >butterfly? Stepping butterfly is set from a clipper, pixie butterfly is set from a toe, basically the same move. I would say the notation is like this, but I am NOT an authority on notation, nor an advocate of it... Stepping Butterfly clip > op out > same in > op clip See ya! Scott. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 10 14:55:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA07908 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:55:26 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: holyx@ix.netcom.com Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA12910 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:07:29 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA01187 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:07:17 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:07:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from prt-or1-03.ix.netcom.com(207.220.32.67) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma001102; Thu Sep 10 09:06:17 1998 To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-Id: <199891018561956334@ix.netcom.com> Subject: RE: [freestyle] Move name?/Pigs X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:08 PM -0400 9/8/98, Gimpy wrote: >>'Leaning Jowler'? Nice. Has anyone ever played "Pass The Pigs"? >Oh no, here we go again. :-) > Steve >P.S. Paul, please limit discussion on non-freestyle threads to a reasonable >size, thanks. :-) Garlands away... ...Will do, Steve. Those interested in the origins of the name of the move Tuan Vu created, go to http://www.ultranet.com/~gkramer/PassThePigs.shtml for a virtual "lite" demo of the game. The real game is like dice with tiny plastic pigs. The "Garland of Pork" is an icon of sorts, passed to the player that has rolled the highest score in one turn and passing them without hitting a "pig out" or an "oinker." Tuan Vu once had a good run at the Garland when he was in Portland. He can tell you how exciting that is. I think he said his heart-rate about doubled. The current holder of the Garland is Kenny Shults. I believe his score is 424. Kenny's held the Garland for some time, and although he's trying to lose some weight, I think that he's vulnerable now. Guess I'll grab my tournament-grade pigs and mosey over to his house. The Garland will be mine... oh yes, it WILL be MINE! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Now, back to freestyle. Kick On, Paul V. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 10 15:34:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA22750 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:34:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA13922 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:26:13 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.20] (d20.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.20]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA04383; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:26:01 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <7bf726df.35f70a27@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:18:00 -0600 To: StinKyKiwi@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter Subject: Re: [freestyle] Cant hit anything today? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Matt! At 7:07 PM -0400 9/9/98, StinKyKiwi@aol.com wrote: >Im sure everyone has their days...can't hit anything big...and ya know what? >It blows! >Anyone have any suggestions to deal with these days..and not screw with your >game? I had that problem this past Tuesday, I couldn't hit a weak-side mobius to save my life. Usually I can hit it in and out of fours, I couldn't even hit it alone. I figured out that it was the dirtbag I was using, had to switch to dirt due to spewing beads from my current freestyle bag. Got it fixed now though. The way I deal with it is to, instead of skooling individual moves, I just skool long strings with a slightly lower add ratio than usual for me. Gets me out of my "come on, get with it" mood. Then I look forward to raging the next day. Move on, it will come back. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 10 15:34:57 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA24925 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:34:57 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA13927 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:26:15 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.20] (d20.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.20]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA04420 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:26:09 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:27:25 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter Subject: [freestyle] New move... Stomping Double Helix Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Everyone! I am not sure if this is a new move, but I haven't seen anyone else hit it, so here goes: Stomping Double Helix: (there is no way to notate this move, so longhand:) Example = Left side Left clipper, set straight up about waist height, plant both legs and leap off both legs, simultaneously circling the bag from front to back (like a whirl) with both legs, on the way down plant the right leg and snag the bag with your left clipper. 4 adds: dex-dex-cross body-delay Also have hit it once paradox. I think I can do both the symposium version and the paradox symposium version eventually. So it may evolve from "Stomping" to other genre's. I call this "simultaneous dexterity of both legs" a "double helix" due to its similarity in look to the di-ribonuclaic-acid [sp] (DNA) strands Is there already a name for this move, or have I stumbled onto something here? See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 10 18:06:34 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA02064 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:06:34 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pop03.globecomm.net (pop03.globecomm.net [206.253.130.65]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14940 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:23:23 -0700 Received: from who.net (dialup24.281.com [209.84.39.63]) by pop03.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id MAA23033 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35F7FE24.3A44490@who.net> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:28:20 -0500 From: Eric Burgess X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New move... Stomping Double Helix References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter wrote: > I am not sure if this is a new move, but I haven't seen anyone else hit it, > so here goes: > Stomping Double Helix: (there is no way to notate this move, so longhand:) > Is there already a name for this move, or have I stumbled onto something here? I have thought about this move a lot, but never came close to hitting it...I like "helix". You should put a swirl at the end. E From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 10 18:06:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA02069 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:06:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Resent-From: reiddm@magma.ca Received: from pc0966.software.mitel.com (Administrators@localhost) by king.tomahawktech.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00218 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:54:01 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:54:00 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199809101654.MAA00218@king.tomahawktech.com> From: "Dave Reid" To: Subject: RE: [freestyle] Mirage Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:53:28 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01bddcdb$8909a0a0$c136c786@pc0966.software.mitel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > -----Original Message----- > I just wanted to share my excitement with everyone. I just hit my first > Mirage. It wasn't pretty, it wasn't graceful, but I did it. That's all. Congrats Owen! I'm a newbie too, and it's really exciting. Every week (if not every day), I pick up a new trick that used to make me say "That's impossible!", and it rocks. I know how it feels to hit a Mirage for the first time. In my mind, it is the first move that involves more than just simple foot control. My next challenge is to get my wife to do a Mirage. She's been kicking regularly since our trip to the Worlds with her Adidas bag (thanx to Scott D. (I think) for tossing them out). Today Mirage, tomorrow the world! Let us know when you hit a double legover (my next goal) :) Dave From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 10 18:43:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA10610 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:43:49 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Nageylum@aol.com Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17281; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:35:58 -0700 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id OJOHa25247; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:35:20 EDT To: enlightener@footbag.org, StinKyKiwi@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Cant hit anything today? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 9/10/98 11:35:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, enlightener@footbag.org writes: > I had that problem this past Tuesday, I couldn't hit a weak-side mobius to > save my life. Usually I can hit it in and out of fours, I couldn't even > hit it alone. I figured out that it was the dirtbag I was using, had to > switch to dirt due to spewing beads from my current freestyle bag. Got it > fixed now though. ya know scott i can relate to that mobious thing, i really can, or rather i should say i wish i could but i'm excited when i hit a mobious on my good side, and i mean really excited. but you inspire me to try and get to your level of play where my off days are better than a lot of peoples good days. and that what it's all about, setting goals and trying your best to get to them. but i personally stop kicking when i'm having a bad time, i figure is soon as i stop having fun messing up the moves, or strings it's no longer good for me. Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 10 21:39:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA29229 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:39:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: StinKyKiwi@aol.com Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19026 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:40:01 -0700 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id OUQJa26914 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:39:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <695171b.35f838fe@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:39:26 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] move Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org reverse mirage? never heard of that one. When this list did something befre on moves being pdox...I think one thing that was sai was that it had to be IN to OUT dex. If Im wrong..feel free to correct me:) Matt Avery Bags From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 10 22:22:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA05234 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:22:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20149 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:50:53 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA09795; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:50:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcp205-134.atext.com(205.180.137.134) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009766; Thu Sep 10 16:49:46 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <695171b.35f838fe@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:49:45 -0700 To: StinKyKiwi@aol.com From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] move Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 4:39 PM -0400 9/10/98, StinKyKiwi@aol.com wrote: >reverse mirage? never heard of that one. Matt, that's just a reverse-dexterity mirage. We tend to use "reverse" to indicate out-in dexterities if a trick is normally done in-out. Since "mirage" is an in-out dexterity; any time you do the other direction, it's a reverse mirage. I haven't updated the move list yet to show that, but will.> >When this list did something befre on >moves being pdox...I think one thing that was sai was that it had to be IN to >OUT dex. If Im wrong..feel free to correct me:) Untrue. There are lots of reverse-dexterity paradox moves (e.g., paradox reverse mirage). The requirement is, however, that for out-in dexterities to merit the extra body (paradox) add, you must catch the bag with the opposite foot in *front* of you after the dexterity (thus completing the more difficult dexterity. If you catch it in a clipper with the opposite foot (e.g., butterfly) it's not paradox. Similar requirements exist for in-out dexterities -- i.e., you have to catch the bag on the opposite foot after in-out dexterities, but it doesn't matter where you do it. Oh, no, I feel a great paradox debate brewing if I've misrepresented anything. :-) But trust me, paradox reverse mirage is a paradox move just like paradox mirage. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 10 22:23:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA05252 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:23:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail-oak-3.pilot.net (mail-oak-3.pilot.net [198.232.147.18]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20345 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:17:40 -0700 Received: from sparky.fibre.com (sparky.fibre.com [206.189.10.11]) by mail-oak-3.pilot.net with ESMTP id OAA13288 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zzz1wbmail1.fibre.com (zzz1wbmail1.fibre.com [10.1.4.31]) by sparky.fibre.com with ESMTP id PAA16195 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by zzz1wbmail1.fibre.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:27:41 -0700 Message-ID: <5FCA68163A73D1119D3600A0C98D7DE3012993FD@zzz1wbmail1.fibre.com> From: Noah Shipley To: "'StinKyKiwi@aol.com'" Cc: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] move Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:27:40 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org It is the SET that determines whether or not a move is paradox(i.e. when the set changes the difficulty of the move) not the directions of the mirages. -----Original Message----- From: StinKyKiwi@aol.com [SMTP:StinKyKiwi@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, September 10, 1998 1:39 PM To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] move reverse mirage? never heard of that one. When this list did something befre on moves being pdox...I think one thing that was sai was that it had to be IN to OUT dex. If Im wrong..feel free to correct me:) Matt Avery Bags From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 10 22:24:22 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA05268 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:24:22 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pop03.globecomm.net (pop03.globecomm.net [206.253.130.65]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20368 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:19:44 -0700 Received: from who.net (dialup42.281.com [209.84.39.81]) by pop03.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id SAA24826; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:19:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35F851AB.FDC00999@who.net> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:24:43 -0500 From: Eric Burgess X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: StinKyKiwi@aol.com CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move References: <695171b.35f838fe@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org yeah, i was looking at the paradox tutorial on the moves list page at footbag worldwide today...it says that only SOME out-in dex moves are ineligible for paradox...and pdx reverse mirage was the example it gave of one that does get the pdx add. fun move, too. E StinKyKiwi@aol.com wrote: > reverse mirage? never heard of that one. When this list did something befre on > moves being pdox...I think one thing that was sai was that it had to be IN to > OUT dex. If Im wrong..feel free to correct me:) > > Matt > Avery Bags From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 10 22:39:17 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA13795 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:39:17 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20659 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:37:43 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA28192; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:37:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx42-52.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.116) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma028169; Thu Sep 10 17:37:17 1998 Message-ID: <35F704A8.6D0@utdallas.edu> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 17:43:52 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: StinKyKiwi@aol.com CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move References: <695171b.35f838fe@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org StinKyKiwi@aol.com wrote: > > reverse mirage? never heard of that one. When this list did something befre on > moves being pdox...I think one thing that was sai was that it had to be IN to > OUT dex. If Im wrong..feel free to correct me:) Oh hell. Here goes the great paradox debate again :) When people say that the dex has to be IN to be pdx, they just mean that you can't get pdx with a butterfly type of dex (double over down, reverse whirl, ripwalk, etc.) But, a reverse mirage - though it is an OUT dex - can be done paradox. Here goes the notation. Pdx reverse mirage - clip > same OUT [dex] > op toe [del] or for those who won't spend 5 minutes to learn the notation, clip set > the same leg that did the set goes around from out to in > catch the bag on the opposite toe from the one that just did the dex. Funny how similar the notation looks to this long description...anyway... It is just like a paradox mirage except the dex goes the other way. In my opinion, pdx rev mirage is much harder than just plain ol paradox mirage. Because you can do a pdx rev mirage, you also get a paradox add on moves like blizzard (miraging paradox rev mirage) or pdx legbeater (pdx rev miraging butterfly). I think paradox just means "the hard way". A paradox mirage is a lot harder than a clipper set mirage. The add system, as I'm sure everyone has heard, isn't always right. Paradox is an add that was put in later to make the system a little closer to right. Basically, a hard move gets another add. There is a good description of paradox at http://www.footbag.org/movelist/paradox-tutorial.html -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 11 00:02:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA31232 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:02:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21763 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:50:18 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.106] (d106.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.106]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA00522; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:50:12 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35F7FE24.3A44490@who.net> References: Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:42:35 -0600 To: Eric Burgess , freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter Subject: Re: [freestyle] New move... Stomping Double Helix Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Eric and Freestylers! >> I am not sure if this is a new move, but I haven't seen anyone else hit it, >> so here goes: >> Stomping Double Helix: (there is no way to notate this move, so longhand:) > > > >> Is there already a name for this move, or have I stumbled onto something >>here? > >I have thought about this move a lot, but never came close to hitting >it...I like >"helix". You should put a swirl at the end. There kinda is a swirl at the end... it is simultaneously happening with the "whirl" motion of the originally planted leg. The bulk of the dex's happen at the end of the move already, just slightly before the catch, maybe a swirl at the front (as Cam Kennedy suggested to me today)... just maybe. See ya! Scott D. Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 11 03:55:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA01550 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:55:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Allman144@aol.com Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id INWVa17585 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:27:38 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <3efe6041.35f87c8a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:27:38 EDT To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] A bunch of things Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 167 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well, I just got done viewing all of the new video clips at footbag.org (I have a T1 connection) and all I can say is Holy Crap! I knew I was in trouble during the first download when I saw Wulfe hit a blurry dragonfly straight into a torque! Anyways, got a few questions for everyone. Check this out: Clip > back spin > same in to out dex> op toe This is obviously a spinning mirage, but is it a spinning paradox mirage because I set it from a clipper? Also, what is a superfly? I saw Irish do it a few times in the video clips. Finally, you all probably know that Mark McGwire reached the 62 home run, probably the most coveted record in all of sports. My question is, is there such a plateau in footbag? I would be interested to hear anyone's feedback. Sincerely, Tony Glick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 11 07:34:54 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA04513 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:34:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA29756; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 02:06:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx48-27.ix.netcom.com(198.211.45.91) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma029742; Fri Sep 11 02:06:30 1998 Message-ID: <35F77C14.713@utdallas.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 02:13:24 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Allman144@aol.com CC: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] A bunch of things References: <3efe6041.35f87c8a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Allman144@aol.com wrote: > > Clip > back spin > same in to out dex> op toe > This is obviously a spinning mirage, but is it a spinning paradox mirage > because I set it from a clipper? Actually, this is a gyro mirage. If the set leg does the dex, the move is gyro. If the other leg does the dex, it is called spinning. And, no. You don't get paradox on any move with a spin. > Also, what is a superfly? A symposium barfly. Pure hell. clipper set. Plant your set foot. Jump off of this foot without planting your other leg. Circle the bag twice from out to in all in the air. Catch on opposite clipper. or, clip > (no plant while) same out [dex] > same out [dex] > op clipper. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 11 15:52:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA09852 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:52:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from TAO.sou.edu (root@Tao.sou.edu [140.211.92.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA29617 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:31:50 -0700 Received: from 206.151.159.61 (dyn-2-28.sou.mind.net [206.151.159.61]) by TAO.sou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA06451 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:32:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35F847D3.5486@tao.sou.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:42:43 -0800 From: "schrodt, forest" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] New move... Stomping Double Helix Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Hi Everyone! > I am not sure if this is a new move, but I haven't seen anyone else hit it, > so here goes: > > Stomping Double Helix: (there is no way to notate this move, so longhand:) > Example = Left side > Left clipper, set straight up about waist height, plant both legs and leap > off both legs, simultaneously circling the bag from front to back (like a > whirl) with both legs, on the way down plant the right leg and snag the bag > with your left clipper. > 4 adds: dex-dex-cross body-delay > > Also have hit it once paradox. I think I can do both the symposium version > and the paradox symposium version eventually. So it may evolve from > "Stomping" to other genre's. > > I call this "simultaneous dexterity of both legs" a "double helix" due to > its similarity in look to the di-ribonuclaic-acid [sp] (DNA) strands > > Is there already a name for this move, or have I stumbled onto something here? > > See ya! > Scott Davidson > Enlightener Sounds like it might be a type of shooting sett but it his hard to know without seeing. Forest From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 11 15:52:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA09865 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:52:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f222.hotmail.com [207.82.251.113]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA31959 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:55:36 -0700 Received: (qmail 316 invoked by uid 0); 11 Sep 1998 13:55:05 -0000 Message-ID: <19980911135505.315.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 129.187.254.48 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:55:04 PDT X-Originating-IP: [129.187.254.48] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] adds Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:55:04 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey gang, I`ve been mulling over the add system for a while thinking of a better way to find the relative difficulty of moves. I tried to write out several moves and brake them down to see exactly what makes them difficult and if it was possible to find a basic way to total the elements. My conclusion is that really it isn`t but here is a ruff copy of what I got. First don`t count delays. Then I tried to find the elements that make most moves hard and brake them down where possible into full and half elements. 1. Dex and spinns. Dexterities are broken into half and full. A full dex is when the dex leg fully circles the bag (e.g. around the world) and half is of course when there is only a partial dex (butterfly). Also a point is awarded when a leg is moved behind the bag not just in front e.g. drifter, pixy clipper. Ducking moves are also chunked in here as a full dex. Spins, or shifts. Half spin (in or back) is 1 (osis) full (spinning kick) is 2 and full in-spin is 3. 2. Movement. When a move restricts movement then there is an point awarded, this is any move ending in a clipper because your leg has to catch (kick) the bag while restricted behind your plant leg. Also some moves now called paradox e.g. paradox mirage. 3. Unusual surface, this is divided into two categories; unusual stalling surfaces (outstep, knees, sole, head, pinch, probably some others) and just plain unusual (heal, toe tip, shin). As you may have guessed unusual stalls get 1 and just plain unusual get 2. 4. Non complimentary. This is basically for any time the side or leg changes, or there is a non complimentary movement with the same leg. For most dex this is relatively simple e.g. leg over is set from the opp leg so it gets one. Direction change, same leg e.g. pixi (same side) leg over, stepping butterfly, also a spin directly to an in-spin. Side change covers many moves now called paradox e.g. paradox whirl. So far we`ve got the basics, now for a few examples of common moves osis=2 half spin+ limited range of motion on the catch. butterfly=2 half dex + lim. range of motion paradox mirage=3 limited range of motion + full dex in-spinning mirage=4 full in-spin+ half dex(not a full mirage) blur=4 half dex + switch + full dex ducking butterfly=4 duck + half dex + limited range of motion rip walk=4 half dex+ switch+half dex+range of motion atom smasher=5 full dex + switch + full dex flurry=5 1.5 dex + switch + half dex blury whirl=5 half dex+switch+full dex+range of motion. barfly=5 1.5 dex + side change + limited range of motion. nemesis=8 1.5 dex+ side change+1.5 dex+limited range of motion. Now for the fun part, symposium and flying moves don`t fit in here so neatly so I decided to put them together as strength moves. This only differs from the add system that a point (or for flying moves an additional point) is added for each full or part of a full dex. That isn't very clear so here are some examples. dragon fly=3 strength+full dex flying barrage kick=5 1.5 dex+strength(twice because there is more than one full dex) symposium whirl=4 full dex+range of motion+strength superfly=7 side change + 1.5 dex + strength (twice because there is more than one full dex) + limited range of motion. Right now I can see a few major failings (I can just hear people now squabbling about whether their new move has a full dex or not). I may just be opening up a can of worms here, but as yet I`m not suggesting that this replace the add system, just sharing my thoughts. If anyone could please give me some feed back, it would probably be more productive if you could send it to me directly and then I`ll see if I can clean this up a bit. -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 11 17:56:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA11340 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 17:56:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01768 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:35:57 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0EZ400C01RMC3B@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:37:24 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:37:24 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] VIDEO To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org There is a new video out to drool over. It's called "Rye Shred", compiled by Eli Piltz (ezshredz@yahoo.com). It's got some of the most incredible footage from worlds, western, southern, and mountain (timezone that is). Peter Irish, Eric Wulff, Daryl Genz, Ryan Mulroney, Rippin' Rick, GRANDMASTER SHULTS, Tuan Vu, Teva Dave, Greg Nelson, Carol Wedemeir, Eli himself, some of the new guys, some of the Finnish players, and more names that I wish were mine. They're symposiumbackspinflurryblurrinpararippin anything you can imagine. There's no sound track so you can go "au naturale" or just blast your favorite tunes over it. And it's KOSHER too!!! Check it out! Brad From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 11 21:02:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA30370 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:02:36 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02926 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:43:54 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA26981 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:43:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx6-52.ix.netcom.com(207.94.122.116) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma026920; Fri Sep 11 13:42:55 1998 Message-ID: <35F81F11.4B7B@utdallas.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:48:49 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Texas State Championships Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello freestyle list. This October 10th and 11th, the Texas State Footbag Championships are going to be held in Austin. I don't really know a lot about the tournament since I'm not running it or anything, but I thought the list needed to know. More information is on the event page http://footbag.org/calendar/show/901662600 I know that the freestyle scene will be pretty sweet with Eli Piltz, Kyle Crawford, Big Add Chad, and Teva Dave all coming down. Last year, Scott D. made it down. How about this year Scott? Net competition is usually pretty good with the local people - James Roberts, James Harley, Tim Vozar, and of course, Tina Lewis (2nd in the world). Tina's e-mail address is tinalewis@footbag.org Write to her with any questions you have about the tournament. Try to make it. I'm just a poor unemployed college student, so this is my only chance to go to a tournament before Southern Regionals in April. I want to see everyone there. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 11 22:12:19 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA23054 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:12:19 GMT Received: from hawk.csrv.uidaho.edu (hawk.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.119.220]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05449 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:30:23 -0700 Received: from raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.192.43]) by hawk.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA21551 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA28187 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:30:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.csrv.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:30:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Hillebrand X-Sender: hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] symposium barfly In-Reply-To: <35F77C14.713@utdallas.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Derric Scalf wrote: > > Also, what is a superfly? > > clip > (no plant while) same out [dex] > same out [dex] > op clipper. This doesn't differ from my definition of a barfly. Can someone clarify? _______________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 11 22:36:54 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA31610 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:36:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06311 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:32:42 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id SAA14581; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:38:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Censored Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Stomping Double Helix In-Reply-To: <35F847D3.5486@tao.sou.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > Stomping Double Helix: (there is no way to notate this move, so longhand:) > > Is there already a name for this move, or have I stumbled onto something here? > > > Sounds like it might be a type of shooting sett but it his hard to know > without seeing. Yaargh! Does anyone remember the reverse-whirling swirl, or the whirling-reverse swirl? Sound familiar? Both legs, same direction? I know a guy who invented sole kicks for himself- his name is Jacques, so he called them "Jacques Kicks". My point? There's one in here somewhere. Who knows - Jacques got a pointy head. JP "Do your own research and you won't be biased by others' opinions. Get someone else to do it and you won't be biased by your own expectations." Ancient Chinese Secret From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 11 23:48:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA16048 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:48:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pop03.globecomm.net (pop03.globecomm.net [206.253.130.65]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06443 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:50:13 -0700 Received: from who.net (DIALUP.281.com [209.84.39.104] (may be forged)) by pop03.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id SAA13161; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:50:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35F9AA75.2140AFB1@who.net> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 17:55:49 -0500 From: Eric Burgess X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Hillebrand CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] symposium barfly References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Matt Hillebrand wrote: > On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Derric Scalf wrote: > > > Also, what is a superfly? > > > > clip > (no plant while) same out [dex] > same out [dex] > op clipper. > > This doesn't differ from my definition of a barfly. Can someone clarify? it's the (no plant while) that makes it a superfly, and hellishly difficult as well. now that you mention it though, the notation is a bit unclear, since you don't really plant your dex leg for a regular barfly either...there should be a way to say that you jump off that leg. maybe (no plant while) implies that you're jumping off that leg. how about it Steve? E From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 12 00:03:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA16396 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 00:03:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07436 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:58:53 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA10058; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:58:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcp205-56.atext.com(205.180.137.56) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma010047; Fri Sep 11 18:57:56 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35F9AA75.2140AFB1@who.net> References: Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:58:10 -0700 To: Eric Burgess From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] symposium barfly Cc: Matt Hillebrand , freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 5:55 PM -0500 9/11/98, Eric Burgess wrote: >> > clip > (no plant while) same out [dex] > same out [dex] > op clipper. >> >it's the (no plant while) that makes it a superfly... >...the notation is a bit unclear, since you >don't really plant your dex leg for a regular barfly either...there should >be a way to say that you jump off that leg. maybe (no plant while) implies >that you're jumping off that leg. how about it Steve? It's the interpreation of "(no plant while)" that's causing the confusion. This term is *only ever present* on *symposium* moves. Symposium moves always have a dexterity performed by the plant leg (so actually the term "no plant" is applied to the *other* foot, not to the dexterity foot). So if (no plant while) is present, it means the dexterity is done between two plants of the dexterity foot without a plant of the OPPOSITE foot. To clarify, it could be written: clip (plant) > (no plant while) same out dex > same out dex > op clip. But the first (plant) is implied in this case (else the "(no plant while)" wouldn't be needed). Does that help? Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 12 01:53:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA17335 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:53:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.JSISHIPPING.COM ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA467 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 17:42:00 -0700 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 17:42:12 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDDDAB.81C29100.ewulff@jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Spinning paradox... Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 17:42:11 -0700 Organization: JSI Shipping X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What it izzzz... you'all, Here goes... Why and how did whoever, back in the day, figure that a spin negates the paradox concept? This has never ceased to annoy me. A spin simply moves the paradox dex to the other side of the body. For example, if you were to set a spinning paradox mirage from a left foot clipper than the paradox dex comes from the right mirage instead of the left as it would without a spin. With this concept in mind, think about the spinning(gyro?) mirage vs. a spinning paradox mirage. How about the dragonflyer? How about a Mobius vs. a spinning paradox torque? I believe that a majority would agree that these coupled tricks have different levels of difficulty. This could be easily accounted for and recognized by the add system if the paradox concept was included in moves with spins. Lets not even get into what a gyro really is! Also, I believe a stepping set would reverse the direction of an in-spin. Wooooohooohoohooooooooo! Now I'm asking for it! But it's true... FREE STYLE Like my style? Eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 12 05:46:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA19973 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 05:46:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: ShReDStEiN@aol.com Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id WLLVa20006; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3426dc28.35fa09a3@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:41:55 EDT To: scalf@utdallas.edu, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, Allman144@aol.com Cc: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle] A bunch of things Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 9/10/98 11:36:30 PM, scalf@utdallas.edu wrote: <<> Also, what is a superfly? A symposium barfly. Pure hell. clipper set. Plant your set foot. Jump off of this foot without planting your other leg. Circle the bag twice from out to in all in the air. Catch on opposite clipper. or, clip > (no plant while) same out [dex] > same out [dex] > op clipper. >> Some one mentioned that Pete can hit this... well I think I've seen Ryan hit it and its one of the only moves that makes him grimace in such a way that suggest pure pain... freestyle...sport of the gods... God bless you shred heads! ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 12 18:03:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA27224 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 18:03:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: SuperOwen@aol.com Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id IGRZa11929 for ; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 13:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <67e7fd84.35fab4b0@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 13:51:44 EDT To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Mirage Technique Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I've been practicing Mirages a lot lately and I was wondering if there was a different technique that would make it easier. What I do is I set with my right toe about shin high with a little hop, then I start to do the dex with my left foot before my right hits the ground, and when my left is about over the bag my right foot hits, then I give another little hop with my right foot to try to catch the bag. The bag usually just ends up bouncing off my foot since it's flat on the ground. How can I change this so I have enough time to actually absorb the shock of the bag so it doesn't roll off? Owen "The Pittsburgh Kid" Parrish From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 12 18:11:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA02917 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 18:11:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15947 for ; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:13:20 -0700 Received: from [144.92.181.187] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id LAA13980 (8.8.6/50); Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:13:18 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980912110803.006b25fc@students.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mklewand@students.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:08:03 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Matthew Kain Lewandowski Subject: [freestyle] symposium legbeater Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The last couple days we Madison freestylers have been working on eggbeaters. Well today I tried some legbeaters (spice it up why not?) well I was getting close and then I sort of did something goofy. After the first dex, I did not plant that leg. I went directly to the second dex with no plant. In otherwords from a lef toe delay I circled it out to in with my right foot. Then without planting my right foot, I did a left foot out in dex to a clipper. Or for notation freaks: toe > op out dex > (no plant while) op out dex > op clipper Is this still a legbeater? I do NOT think that it is symposium (if it is, it is a lame symposium). It is the same kind of thing as when someone might do a butterfly from a toe set without a plant and call it symposium (bleck!) How many adds? What am I doing? Help! Matthew Kain From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 12 18:12:46 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA02938 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 18:12:46 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15961 for ; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:14:36 -0700 Received: from [144.92.181.187] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id LAA53494 (8.8.6/50); Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:14:35 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980912110920.006b3f80@students.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mklewand@students.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:09:20 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Matthew Kain Lewandowski Subject: [freestyle] pogo legover Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Here is another one that I was doing today (as well as the rest of the Madison kicking Krew): >From a clipper set, I did what I believe to be a pogo set. Then I just went in to an opposite foot legover. This is really simple and would be a quick 4 (I think) add trick. Try it, it's EASY! Here it is again: >From a right foot clipper, do a pogo set (do an opposite leg in/out dex without planting the clipper foot). Then do an out/in dex with the right leg and end in a right toe stall. Or: clipper> (no plant while) op in > op out > same toe delay What would this be called? A pogo legover? Who knows a cool name for it? Matthew Kain Oh yeah - anyone else do dynos and blenders from souls stall? We call it soul reaper and soul blender respectively (and for obvious reasons). Shred! Shred! SHRED! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Sep 13 03:08:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA24950 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 03:08:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA22610; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:33:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx50-51.ix.netcom.com(198.211.45.243) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma022582; Sat Sep 12 16:32:38 1998 Message-ID: <35F99855.65C7@utdallas.edu> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:38:29 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SuperOwen@aol.com CC: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Mirage Technique References: <67e7fd84.35fab4b0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org SuperOwen@aol.com wrote: > > I've been practicing Mirages a lot lately and I was wondering if there > was a different technique that would make it easier. What I do is I > set with my right toe about shin high Set higher. Most moves require a set about waist high. Mirage is no different. > with a little hop, then I start to do the dex with my left foot before > my right hits the ground, and when my left is about over the bag my > right foot hits, then I give another little hop with my right foot to > try to catch the bag. On a regular mirage (in to out dex), I don't start the dexterity until the bag is already on its way down. It sounds like you are trying to set the bag and get your other leg over it all in one motion. While for some moves this is good (blur sets, reverse mirage sets, pixies, fairies, etc.), on a move like mirage, you really want to take your time. Since you are going off of right toe, try it like this: Set the bag right in front of your crotch. Plant your set foot. Now, both feet are on the ground and the bag is directly in front of you. Raise your left leg up and to the right so that it is above and to the right of the bag. Then, hop off of your right leg. This hop is the key to the whole timing of mirage. As you hop, your left leg will automatically finish the dexterity. You really don't have to worry so much about the dex... only the stall on that right toe. As you land on your left leg, cushion the stall by bending your left leg. > The bag usually just ends up bouncing off my foot since it's flat on > the ground. How can I change this so I have enough time to actually > absorb the shock of the bag so it doesn't roll off? Set higher. Concentrate more on the stall than the dex. The dex will happen. Use your hips to get your leg around the bag... not so much with your foot. Set straight up... not across your body. And practice. A good way to practice is to hold the bag in your left hand a little above waist high. Raise your left leg up and to the right (use those hips). Drop the bag from your left hand. Hop over the bag and catch it on a right toe delay. This will help with that timing I was talking about. Do it on BOTH SIDES!!!! Kick on. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Sep 13 03:08:56 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA24956 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 03:08:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA20351 for ; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:58:25 -0700 Message-ID: <19980912195842.17932.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [161.98.1.153] by send103.yahoomail.com; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:58:42 PDT Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:58:42 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] symposium legbeater To: Matthew Kain Lewandowski Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Matt, > After the first dex, > I did not plant that leg. I went directly to the second dex with no plant. That is exactly what I did when I first learned legbeater. I wouldn't dare call it symposium, unless you do the first dex symp., but hold off that until you master a plain old legbeater. There are two ways to do a legbeater- like Tuan Vu or like Peter Irish. Truth is the Tuan version (hippie) is more energy (and pain) efficient and it's easier to stay over the bag (in my opinion), unless you are a true Jedi like Peter. No offense to those who do it like Peter (leggy), honest. Just work on speeding up that first dex + set, then worry about the butterfly later. Shred on. Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Sep 13 03:08:43 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA24944 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 03:08:43 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA21790 for ; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:39:45 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA23033; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:39:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx50-51.ix.netcom.com(198.211.45.243) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma023027; Sat Sep 12 16:39:27 1998 Message-ID: <35F999EF.35C9@utdallas.edu> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:45:19 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Kain Lewandowski CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] symposium legbeater References: <3.0.2.32.19980912110803.006b25fc@students.wisc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Symposium legbeater would be a symposium reverse miraging butterfly instead of a reverse miraging symposium butterfly. I think.... I think what you are doing would probably be more like a reverse miraging refraction. cool move nonetheless. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I saw Eli trying symposium legbeater and it looked a lot harder than this description sounds. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Sep 13 17:12:17 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA00345 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:12:17 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA31532 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:10:15 -0700 Received: from [144.92.183.34] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id LAA33314 (8.8.6/50); Sun, 13 Sep 1998 11:10:13 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980913110447.006bdfe4@students.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mklewand@students.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 11:04:47 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Matthew Kain Lewandowski Subject: Re: [freestyle] pogo legover In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980913003659.007c5e40@pop.mindspring.com> References: <3.0.2.32.19980912110920.006b3f80@students.wisc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org For all interested in visiting the exciting Madison, Wisconsin area, we do have a club. Our website will be coming soon, so I will send you all to it. Don't mess me up Ernest! I sent in to footbag.org with a club listing. It just has not been updated yet. So if anyone is in the area, look us up. Send me an email and we can skool. Hey Ernest, we have accelerated since you left. I have learned ripwalk, double pickup, blur, barfly, eggbeater, etc. Thanks for kickin' with us and showing us what's up. If I could just hit that swifter... Matthew Kain - Footbag guy At 12:36 AM 9/13/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 11:09 AM 9/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >> Here is another one that I was doing today (as well as the rest of the >>Madison kicking Krew): > > Where's that club listing, Matt?! Don't make me come back up there and >break my foot off up in yo' ass! 8-D > >-- >Ernest "Scratch" Crvich >Durham, NC, USA >http://www.mindspring.com/~ecrvich >Have footbag, will shred > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Sep 13 19:23:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA01585 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:23:10 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f280.hotmail.com [207.82.251.171]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA00279 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 12:04:16 -0700 Received: (qmail 26213 invoked by uid 0); 13 Sep 1998 19:03:45 -0000 Message-ID: <19980913190345.26212.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.72.213.199 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 12:03:40 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.72.213.199] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Qs on Mirage & Butterfly Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:03:40 EDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I can't hit either one of these. I can't seem to move my feet and legs fast enough to get my foot under the bag. You guys got any tips for that would help me? I've been trying to hit these all day but all I ended up with is a pain in my left knee and alot of sweat. Steve Miskiewicz ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 14 01:35:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA13714 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:35:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send104.yahoomail.com (send104.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.122]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA03395 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:14:42 -0700 Message-ID: <19980913231506.3349.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Received: from [161.98.1.203] by send104.yahoomail.com; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:15:06 PDT Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:15:06 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Qs on Mirage & Butterfly To: Steve Miskiewicz Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Gee wiz, man, you don't need speed for these tricks. Just slow down and smooth them out. Read D's advice to SuperOwen about a mirage, and try rotating your body just a little bit (towards the set/catch side) as you do the dex. The butterfly requires a similar turn, which helps soften the landing. Point your plant knee and foot away from your clipper and twist your shoulders towards the bag (you should be able to reach down w/ both hands and grab your clipper foot). Practice this form on clippers and then Butterfly should be easy. Oh, in case you don't already, DO EVERYTHING BOTH SIDES, and work your bad side more than your good side, you'll thank yourself later. Also get Tricks of the Trade for some good tutorials. Eli ---Steve Miskiewicz wrote: > > I can't hit either one of these. I can't seem to move my feet and legs > fast enough to get my foot under the bag. You guys got any tips for > that would help me? I've been trying to hit these all day but all I > ended up with is a pain in my left knee and alot of sweat. > > Steve > Miskiewicz > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 14 17:46:03 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA24047 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:46:03 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA14626 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:20:28 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0EZA00B01AWB3Q@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:21:48 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:21:47 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] pogo legover In-reply-to: <3.0.2.32.19980912110920.006b3f80@students.wisc.edu> To: Matthew Kain Lewandowski Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Matthew Kain Lewandowski wrote: > >From a right foot clipper, do a pogo set (do an opposite leg in/out dex > without planting the clipper foot). Then do an out/in dex with the right > leg and end in a right toe stall. > Or: > clipper> (no plant while) op in > op out > same toe delay > > What would this be called? A pogo legover? Who knows a cool name for it? > Matthew Kain > Wouldn't that be "shooting" instead of "pogo"? I've been hitting that trick for a while now and I don't think it gets 4. I think you get 2 for the Shoot and 1 for the delay. It feels easier than a double legover from a clip set. Try that same set only land on the opposite foot. So: clip> (NO PLANT) op in> op out> op toe delay. It's blizzard without the first plant. Or try clip> (NO PLANT) op in> op out> same out> op clipper delay. That'd be blurriest without the first plant. I almost hit that the other day by accident. Brad From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 14 19:27:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA16832 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:27:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send1d.yahoomail.com (send1d.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.48]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA15558 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:23:54 -0700 Message-ID: <19980914181622.21707.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Received: from [161.98.1.201] by send1d; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:16:22 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:16:22 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] pogo legover To: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org clip>(no plant while)op in dex>op out dex>same toe delay. > Wouldn't that be "shooting" instead of "pogo"? The way he describes it, it would in fact be a pogo legover. Some pogo tricks don't get an extra add (at least not by merit), this is one of them. Also, pogo pdox mirage is not a 5, it's just as easy as a blur. I thought this Pogo controversy was settled a long time ago. Pogo symposium mirage I think does get an extra add for pogo, it's bloody difficult, (that would be 5 adds) (Like a stepping mirage but symposium all the way). > I think you get 2 for the Shoot. A shooting set is 3 > Try that same set only land on the opposite foot. So: clip> (NO > PLANT) op in> op out> op toe delay. It's blizzard without the first plant. It's called a pogo blizzard- 4 adds Or try clip> (NO PLANT) op in> op out> same out> op clipper delay. > That'd be blurriest without the first plant. I almost hit > that the other day by accident. Nice one Brad, that's a pogo barfly. I want to see you hit it. Kick w/ you soon. Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 15 05:53:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA32402 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 05:53:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f83.hotmail.com [207.82.250.189]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA24751 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:49:37 -0700 Received: (qmail 26885 invoked by uid 0); 15 Sep 1998 05:49:06 -0000 Message-ID: <19980915054906.26884.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.109.234.36 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:49:06 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.109.234.36] From: "Dat Phan" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Anyone in San Jose? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:49:06 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm a newbie here in San Jose and i'm looking for someone to kick with. It's kinda tought for me 'cause i don't have my license yet. So if you live in my neck of the woods, please contact me. Dat Phan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 15 17:10:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA32098 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:10:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f173.hotmail.com [207.82.251.59]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA27202 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 02:08:25 -0700 Received: (qmail 4644 invoked by uid 0); 15 Sep 1998 09:07:53 -0000 Message-ID: <19980915090753.4643.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.131 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 02:07:53 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.131] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] oh no! more lemings! Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 02:07:53 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The work is under way to cleen up my move rating system, in the mean while I was finally able to play with a scerious styler for the first time in more than a month (thanks for having me over Mark). I had unfortunatly a bad day, for Scott D. a bad day may be not hitting his off side mobious for me a bad day is not being able to get more than 5 moves into any run of anything other than toe stalls. I did however come up with a few things so here are a whole bunch of move name questions. Gyro motion, for the notation freaks that is clip>back spin>same out>same out>in-spin>same clip, anyone hitting this, I came close but couldn`t quite turn back fast enough to land it? Swirling osis, like a twirl but with the dex leg going the other way. It kind of resembles a gyro whirl but the dex is done before turning to opp clip. clip>same back to front(swirl)>back spin>opp clip gyro drifter, clip>back spin>opp in>same clip I didn`t hit it but came close enough that I think I should hit it soon. Taping dyno? This is hard to explain. Set from toe, move opp leg over the bag and plant then do a dyno with that leg, kind of like a motion with a plant between the dexes. toe>opp out(plant)>same out>in-spin>same clip. My notation isn`t perfect so don`t yell at me if any of these are a little confusing. Names anyone? anyone seen any of these before? -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 15 17:10:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA32105 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:10:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA29197; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:24:36 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.2] (d2.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.2]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA29747; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:24:20 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <35F9AA75.2140AFB1@who.net> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:48:36 -0600 To: Steve Goldberg , Eric Burgess From: Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter Subject: Re: [freestyle] symposium barfly Cc: Matt Hillebrand , freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Guys! If it is called superfly from a barfly set, what is it called from a down double down set? down superfly? Last week I hit some things you folks might be interested in... most importantly, I hit 5 Blurry Whirls in a row. Also hit three symposium paradox whirls in a row. Been working on torsions (5 a day). I have hit "Down Superfly" a couple of times. Eric Wulff is right about the Spinning Paradox Torque being worth more than paradox torque, but I am not sure if I want to start debating paradox again. Unless Eric really wants to get into it... Sean Wingert now lives in Chicago (for the next 9 months, going to skool). Yahooo!!!! How about that, someone moving *to* Chicago. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 15 17:10:25 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA32110 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:10:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA29201 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:24:41 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.2] (d2.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.2]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA29786; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:24:29 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.2.32.19980912110920.006b3f80@students.wisc.edu> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:39:02 -0600 To: KAPLAN BRADLEY M , Matthew Kain Lewandowski From: Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter Subject: Re: [freestyle] pogo legover Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! At 11:21 AM -0600 9/14/98, KAPLAN BRADLEY M wrote: >On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Matthew Kain Lewandowski wrote: >> >From a right foot clipper, do a pogo set (do an opposite leg in/out dex >> without planting the clipper foot). Then do an out/in dex with the right >> leg and end in a right toe stall. >> What would this be called? A pogo legover? Who knows a cool name for it? I would say it is a "Shooting Toe". A Great start towards shooting moves, it is the component in all shooting moves. It is 4 adds. 3 for the shoot and one for the toe. (Shooting = Symposium, Dex, Dex plus whatever you do after that.) See ya! Scott. Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 15 18:45:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA25001 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:45:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00111; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:33:11 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA27289; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:33:03 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:33:03 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter cc: KAPLAN BRADLEY M , Matthew Kain Lewandowski , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] pogo legover In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > it is the component in all shooting moves. It is 4 adds. 3 for the shoot > and one for the toe. (Shooting = Symposium, Dex, Dex plus whatever you do > after that.) With a shooting set, does the second dex ever get a paradox add? Like a shooting butterfly (pogo paradox legbeater?) for example. Thanks From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 15 19:29:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA01120 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:29:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Nageylum@aol.com Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00589 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:11:17 -0700 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id OYBTa25245 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:10:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:10:15 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Things like a "superfly" Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey stylers, with all the talk about symposium single legged double dex moves, it made me think about symposium double whirl (symposium whirr) and wondering if such a thing was possible. Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 15 22:05:56 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA19508 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:05:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: StinKyKiwi@aol.com Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03608 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:55:37 -0700 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id OPJJa17586 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:54:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:54:34 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Fwd: [freestyle] Things like a "superfly" Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_905896480_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_905896480_boundary Content-ID: <0_905896480@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_905896480_boundary Content-ID: <0_905896480@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: StinKyKiwi@aol.com Return-path: To: Nageylum@aol.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] Things like a "superfly" Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:54:02 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit naw naw...you guys arent thinking right:) You want to see a symposium whirr? I want a pogo symposium whirring swirl! :) Matt --part0_905896480_boundary-- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 16 03:57:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA15465 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 03:57:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from m14.boston.juno.com (m14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.193]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07306 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:22:20 -0700 Received: (from rapidhavok@juno.com) by m14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DN8YJ2SK; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:21:45 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:20:50 -0400 Subject: [freestyle] Spinning Mirage? Message-ID: <19980915.222051.4974.0.RapidHavok@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-7 From: rapidhavok@juno.com (Jason W Donnelly) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I've been workin on this trick for awhile and was wondering what it was if it was even a move...what would it be if you took a clipper and spun into a mirage? Ya know from the back side. I'd appreciate it if somebody told me. Thanx, Jason Donnelly T.N.W. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 16 03:57:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA15483 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 03:57:14 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (mail.callplus.co.nz [202.27.101.18]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04338 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:47:49 -0700 Received: by mail.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:46:39 +1200 Message-ID: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C1D828B@mail.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] New Tricks? Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:46:39 +1200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Heya all... I got a coupla new tricks that arent on the movelist... was wondering if anyone else out there does them, and if they have a name (other than what we call them)?? 1. Us kiwi's call this one 'Blackjack' - Toe > op out dex > op in dex > op clip del Its pretty much a reverse Miraging Whirl - 4 adds 2 We call this one 'Silo' - Toe > op out dex > op in dex > (back) spin > op clip del Its similar to Flux but with an extra dexterity snaked in... sort of a toe set reverse miraging torque... 5 adds methinks Cheers ! PS. I am still dumbfounded that Scott D has linked 5 blurry whirls... shouldn't there be some law against that? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 16 04:00:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA15513 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 04:00:49 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from rmit.EDU.AU (root@voga.rmit.edu.au [131.170.1.20]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07384 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:27:27 -0700 Received: from jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au (jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.EDU.AU [131.170.37.250]) by rmit.EDU.AU (8.8.8/8.7.3/ram4/ANTI-SPAM/ANTI-RELAY/VOGA) with ESMTP id MAA19150 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:27:20 +1000 (EST) Received: from APOLLO/SpoolDir by jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 16 Sep 98 12:31:20 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by APOLLO (Mercury 1.21); 16 Sep 98 12:31:00 +1100 From: "Lynton Stephens" Organization: Civil & Geological Engineering RMIT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:30:59 EST-10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [freestyle] Choice of moves Priority: normal Message-ID: <3725BBD04A0@jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi there stylers- I recently checked out the '98 Worlds videos at www.footbag.org and let me say there are some mammoth, mesmerising strings on there with exruciatingly difficult links. I think if Ryan Mulroney's rampaging strings get any phatter he will self-combust. One thing which did leave me a bit perplexed though, is that toe to toe moves seem to be extremely rare in BAP strings. I only remember seeing 3 (eggbeater, stomping DLO and toe barrage). Sure, moves like vortex and twirl are extremely pretty, they make omelette and toe blizzard look almost ugly, but whatever happened to smear, double ATW, atom smasher, etc? I have spoken with a friend about this and came up with the following reasons why toe to toe moves are considered so passe. * With toe to toe moves body adds are difficult to get, ie. spins and symposiums are harder, paradox is non-existant. There are very few 4 and 5 add moves, especially realistic ones. * Butterfly, osis and pdox mirage use less energy, making long strings easier. They are also more versatile and easier to link. * Moves involving clipper stalls are often (not always) prettier. * Why do a smear or an atom smasher when pixie butterfly or legbeater are just as easy (or arguably easier) and worth an extra add. This is certainly not a criticism of the BAPpers, hell no! I just thought it was a little strange that these moves seem to be used so infrequently. I believe they should be used to add variety, if nothing else. What does everyone else think? Perhaps I'm just jealous : ) or perhaps I'm just backwards because I live "way over there" in Australia!! Shred onwards. Lynton From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 16 06:34:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA31357 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:34:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f189.hotmail.com [207.82.251.78]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA09858 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:33:15 -0700 Received: (qmail 3296 invoked by uid 0); 16 Sep 1998 06:32:45 -0000 Message-ID: <19980916063245.3295.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.155 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:32:44 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.155] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: s9709652@jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.EDU.AU, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Choice of moves Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:32:44 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi lynton >* Why do a smear or an atom smasher when pixie butterfly or legbeater > are just as easy (or arguably easier) and worth an extra add. i find both of the latter easier than their former counterparts by far. And while smear doesn't get all that much respect, i bust out atom smashers because they get more respect than legbeaters. I think another reason why moves ending in clippers are favored is that you have more options from clippers, such as pogo, blurry, and ducks/dives. KeN NYFA ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 16 13:57:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id NAA22091 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:57:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA14509 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:30:24 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.232] (d230.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.230]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA25116 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:30:14 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:34:23 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson at CopySetCenter Subject: [freestyle] Does anyone have tape of '98 Worlds 1st Round Freestyle? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! During my performance in 1st round this year at worlds, my camera shut down due to lack of battery. If anyone has that on tape, I would love to get a copy of it from you. I will digitize it (so best quality is somewhat important) and post it on the web. It was the only dropless routine at worlds this year. It was the only routine *ever* at worlds to break the 3.0 add ratio barrier. It was the most difficult routine ever done at *any* worlds, and the most difficult dropless routine ever done. It was the most adds done in a row without a drop at worlds. And most importantly, it was my personal best performance. Whatever you need, some money to cover the tape, postage and a little something for yourself... or even better, send me the original so I can digitize from that, then I will return the original to you. Anyway, I hope to get a copy of that soon. Thanks in advance. Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 16 16:47:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA25758 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:47:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Resent-From: reiddm@magma.ca Received: from homer.tomahawktech.com (cpu1550.adsl.bellglobal.com [206.47.27.31]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16693 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:18:29 -0700 Received: from pc0966.software.mitel.com (Administrators@localhost) by homer.tomahawktech.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00235 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:19:49 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:19:48 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199809161619.MAA00235@homer.tomahawktech.com> From: "Dave Reid" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Does anyone have tape of '98 Worlds 1st Round Freestyle? Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:19:20 -0400 Message-ID: <001801bde18d$c29317a0$c136c786@pc0966.software.mitel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > -----Original Message----- > It was the only dropless routine at worlds this year. It was the only Sam Conlon might dispute that claim, but I guess you meant to say the only dropless MENS routine :) > routine *ever* at worlds to break the 3.0 add ratio barrier. It was the > most difficult routine ever done at *any* worlds, and the most difficult > dropless routine ever done. It was the most adds done in a row without a > drop at worlds. And most importantly, it was my personal best > performance. That sounds AWESOME! I want to see it! I missed the first round, but I got video of every routine on Friday and Saturday. Maybe you can help this newbie out. What were the best moves/combos pulled off in the semis and finals at the worlds? I have trouble identifying alot of the moves. Dave R. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 16 17:10:02 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA01542 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:10:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send1b.yahoomail.com (send1b.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA17067 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:44:20 -0700 Message-ID: <19980916164350.17440.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Received: from [161.98.1.201] by send1b; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:43:50 PDT Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:43:50 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Tricks? To: freestyle@footbag.org, Adrian Dick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > 1. Us kiwi's call this one 'Blackjack' - Toe > op out dex > op in > dex > op clip del > Its pretty much a reverse Miraging Whirl - 4 adds I've adopted the adjective 'Atomic' for moves starting with a reverse-mirage (stemmed from atom smasher) So I call this 'Atomic Whirl' > 2. We call this one 'Silo' - Toe > op out dex > op in dex > (back) > spin > op clip del >a toe set reverse miraging torque... 5 adds methinks Hence this one would be an 'Atomic Torque' This move is astonishing, who hits it out there? I'm pretty close to doing 'Paradox Atomic Torque' Haven't done it normal yet (better side atomic set leads to my bad side torque, so I try it pdox). Also, you should try 'Atomic Drifter' and 'Atomic Blender' and 'Atomic Double Legover'. They are hittable Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 16 17:10:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA01555 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:10:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send1d.yahoomail.com (send1d.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.48]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA16899 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:30:13 -0700 Message-ID: <19980916162239.14778.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Received: from [161.98.1.201] by send1d; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:22:39 PDT Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:22:39 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Yeah right To: StinKyKiwi@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > You want to see a symposium whirr? I > want a pogo symposium whirring swirl! > How about a shooting symposium whirring ripstein, but bail to blender. clip>(no plant)op in>op out>(no plant)op in>same in>op in>same in>op in>back spin(body)>same clip. I hit it all the time. Funny thing is, no one is ever around when I do. Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 16 17:22:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA01628 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:22:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Resent-From: reiddm@magma.ca Received: from homer.tomahawktech.com (cpu1550.adsl.bellglobal.com [206.47.27.31]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA17146 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:52:16 -0700 Received: from pc0966.software.mitel.com (Administrators@localhost) by homer.tomahawktech.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00238 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:53:34 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:53:33 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199809161653.MAA00238@homer.tomahawktech.com> From: "Dave Reid" To: Subject: [freestyle] Freestyle competition vs. shred Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:53:05 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01bde192$79b323e0$c136c786@pc0966.software.mitel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I got my first REAL exposure to footbag when I went to the Worlds this year. I have been wondering about some things though. Why is it that there is no event in the competition that allows the competitors to break out their best stuff on stage? Because I didn't know when/where to look, I missed all the shred-o-maniacs doing their thing in the back alleys. I really think if you want to attract spectators and new competitors to this sport, you need to show them the best stuff. I think one idea might be to do some sort of showdown. Have four competitors get up on stage, and they take turns doing their best strings. Maybe you would go 2 or 3 times around. The owner of the best string, based primarily on WOW factor with the judges, would move on. Have ideas like this happened, or been considered, in the past? Another thing to see would be some goals. Some records to break. I know that people compete in timed consecutive, and people shoot for consecutive records, but neither of these are suited to spectators (fun to read about though). I would like to see some records in the sport that can only be set at 'official' events. I'm picturing Scott Davidson coming on stage, and the announcer saying "... and now, Scott Davidson will attempt to break the current record of 27 consecutive blurry whirls held by Owen 'Total Package'... paramedics are standing by..." :) my 5 cents Dave R. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 16 17:52:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA10186 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:52:07 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send1e.yahoomail.com (send1e.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA17449 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:21:45 -0700 Message-ID: <19980916171920.6279.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Received: from [161.98.1.201] by send1e; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:19:20 PDT Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:19:20 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle]competition vs. shred To: Dave Reid Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well, Dave, there is something called 'Shred Skills Competition' that is held at some events. You get 45 seconds to do as many adds as you can. This is quite impressive to watch; it's good for spectators. I think this should be part of World's. ---Dave Reid wrote: > > > I got my first REAL exposure to footbag when I went to the Worlds this year. > I have been wondering about some things though. > > Why is it that there is no event in the competition that allows the > competitors to break out their best stuff on stage? Because I didn't know > when/where to look, I missed all the shred-o-maniacs doing their thing in > the back alleys. I really think if you want to attract spectators and new > competitors to this sport, you need to show them the best stuff. > > I think one idea might be to do some sort of showdown. Have four > competitors get up on stage, and they take turns doing their best strings. > Maybe you would go 2 or 3 times around. The owner of the best string, based > primarily on WOW factor with the judges, would move on. > > Have ideas like this happened, or been considered, in the past? > > Another thing to see would be some goals. Some records to break. I know > that people compete in timed consecutive, and people shoot for consecutive > records, but neither of these are suited to spectators (fun to read about > though). I would like to see some records in the sport that can only be set > at 'official' events. I'm picturing Scott Davidson coming on stage, and the > announcer saying "... and now, Scott Davidson will attempt to break the > current record of 27 consecutive blurry whirls held by Owen 'Total > Package'... paramedics are standing by..." :) > > my 5 cents > > Dave R. > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 16 18:23:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA18743 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:23:10 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pop02.globecomm.net (pop02.globecomm.net [206.253.129.186]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17677 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:34:55 -0700 Received: from who.net (dialup44.281.com [209.84.39.83]) by pop02.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id NAA20052; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35FFF7AD.C034B8F5@who.net> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:38:53 -0500 From: Eric Burgess X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Reid CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Freestyle competition vs. shred References: <001b01bde192$79b323e0$c136c786@pc0966.software.mitel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dave Reid wrote: > Why is it that there is no event in the competition that allows the > competitors to break out their best stuff on stage? Because I didn't know > when/where to look, I missed all the shred-o-maniacs doing their thing in > the back alleys. I really think if you want to attract spectators and new > competitors to this sport, you need to show them the best stuff. While a paradox baroque to scorpion tail may cause experienced shredders to fall on their knees in a state of ecstatic worship, the sad(?) truth is, for those not indoctrinated in the Way of the Shred, a pendulum to a sole stall can be equally or even more impressive. The "crowd-pleaser" moves are notoriously different (and less difficult) than the ones that impress fellow shredders. Bystanders don't know a ripwalk from a blurriest. What's my point? The incentives in the current system of freestyle competition, to have a dropless routine, with plenty of creativity and showmanship, are designed specifically for the purpose of attracting specators and new competitors. A "wicked shred" contest (which has been proposed before, by the way) would be cool, but would be appreciated mostly by those who already are on the path of the enlightened. E From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 16 18:23:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA18758 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:23:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17602 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:32:02 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0EZE00L010RX6R@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:33:33 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:33:33 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Choice of moves In-reply-to: <3725BBD04A0@jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au> To: Lynton Stephens Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Lynton Stephens wrote: > toe to toe moves seem to be extremely rare in BAP strings. I only remember > seeing 3 (eggbeater, stomping DLO and toe barrage). Sure, moves like > * With toe to toe moves body adds are difficult to get, ie. spins and > symposiums are harder, paradox is non-existant. There are very > few 4 and 5 add moves, especially realistic ones. > * Butterfly, osis and pdox mirage use less energy, making long > strings easier. They are also more versatile and easier to link. > * Moves involving clipper stalls are often (not always) prettier. > * Why do a smear or an atom smasher when pixie butterfly or legbeater > are just as easy (or arguably easier) and worth an extra add. I think the surroundings and some vanity have to be taken into consideration as well. Picture this: You're in the BAP, at Worlds, surrounded by the rest of the BAP players who are hitting 4,5, & 6 add strings. Do you want to be the guy who hits a bunch of 3's in a row? I agree that those moves are great and I'd say so do a lot of the Elite. I've seen "BAPpers" hit smears and double ATW's and atom smashers a hundred times over. Eventually, they're not as much fun as hitting all the big add moves which are harder to link together. BRAD P.S. Anyone out there hitting symposium smear or blur? I hit s. smear but not s. blur yet. Tips appreciated. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 17 01:07:48 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA07763 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 01:07:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22743; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:42:53 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id PMLTa29193; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5b066eef.36004bbc@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:37:32 EDT To: ezshredz@yahoo.com, reiddm@magma.ca Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle]competition vs. shred Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 9/16/98 9:34:24 AM, ezshredz@yahoo.com wrote: <> AKA: "45 Second Shred" one of the events held at 98 Southern Cal. Footbag champs this year.... I hope it catches on, it was fun... God Bless the shredders.. ~BRyan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 17 01:08:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA07776 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 01:08:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22792; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:45:18 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 4QOTa19215; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42080ab9.36004d50@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:44:16 EDT To: AdrianD@callplus.co.nz, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Tricks? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 9/15/98 8:57:21 PM, AdrianD@callplus.co.nz wrote: <> You'd be dumbfounded too find he's not the only one... "Do not underestimate the new generation of shredders.... up and coming would be to say the least" Kick ass guys and don't slow down ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 17 01:08:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA07789 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 01:08:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22834; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:46:39 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id PYXTa10158; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:40:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6275606d.36004c7f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:40:47 EDT To: ezshredz@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org, AdrianD@callplus.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle] New Tricks? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Atomic whirl? that reminds of that gross move eli hits.... ah yes my friends... paratoxic...6 ugly adds of pure illness ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 17 02:11:27 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA24783 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 02:11:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from m14.boston.juno.com (m14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.193]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA24253 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:34:09 -0700 Received: (from rapidhavok@juno.com) by m14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DPBF7ZHX; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:33:50 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:33:00 -0400 Subject: [freestyle] Move add/name Message-ID: <19980916.213300.3878.0.RapidHavok@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4 From: rapidhavok@juno.com (Jason W Donnelly) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Is there a special name for a round the world to clipper and what would the add be? 2 or 3? Thanx, Jason Donnelly T.N.W. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 17 16:08:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA02803 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:08:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f221.hotmail.com [207.82.251.112]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA32117 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:13:59 -0700 Received: (qmail 13192 invoked by uid 0); 17 Sep 1998 10:13:28 -0000 Message-ID: <19980917101328.13191.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 129.187.254.49 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:13:25 PDT X-Originating-IP: [129.187.254.49] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move add/name Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:13:25 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "Is there a special name for a round the world to clipper and what would the add be? 2 or 3? Thanx, Jason Donnelly T.N.W." Direction, foot, set? You really nead to give us a better discription than that. Anyway here are the possibilities. out to in around the world to same side cliper=butterfly toe>same out>same clip in to out around the world to same side cliper=whirl toe>same in>same clip out to in around the world to opp side cliper=fairy clipper toe>same out>opp clip in to out around the world to opp side cliper=pixi cliper toe>same in>opp clip all three adds. My guess is you meant toe set butterfly. -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 17 16:11:27 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA02888 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:11:27 GMT Received: from rac2.wam.umd.edu ((IDENT root)@rac2.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.142]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id KAA24701; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:42:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac2.wam.umd.edu ((IDENT sendmail)@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac2.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id KAA19114; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by rac2.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id KAA19109; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:42:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac2.wam.umd.edu: rvbpaco owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:42:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #463 In-Reply-To: <199809162330.XAA06365@eniac.yak.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. I've forgone the habit of carrying immortalizing videoequipment with me to tournaments, and dang it wouldn't you know it but Noah and I hit the most styley, most pretzelry, highest add ( at least the judges said so ), team freestyle routine ever ( well okay, maybe not ) during first round of team freestyle at worlds this year. I would ( in all honesty, honestly ) like to see it. anyone with info on how i might get a copy, or view a copy, please let me know. Also, are the raw scores tabulated anywhere? I couldn't find them in the worlds results online. Thanks again. and yes, my lights are working fine. Oh, and while I am at it, quite a few freestylers of the highest order of ability and respectability have told me I NEED to see a routine by some kicker from Chicago I think? In fact, what they said was ERVERYONE needs to see this routine if they consider themselves freestylers. Something about his having hit what they called the epitomal freestyle routine, the best routine ever. I unfortunately missed it live because, um, well, me and my team partner, uh, well, sort of had to come up with something to do.... Anyway, I'd like to see that too. later everybody. have fun, its the best part vince From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 17 16:11:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA02907 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:11:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f259.hotmail.com [207.82.251.150]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA32202 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:29:03 -0700 Received: (qmail 11140 invoked by uid 0); 17 Sep 1998 10:28:32 -0000 Message-ID: <19980917102832.11139.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 129.187.254.49 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:28:31 PDT X-Originating-IP: [129.187.254.49] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] oh no! more lemings! Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:28:31 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "> gyro drifter, This is a vortex, it's pretty tough. For me it's one of those that comes and goes. Some days I can't miss it, but others I can't hit it. " This is a cool enough move that it is worth another description. Example right(left foot)cliper. set from r.cliper spin back, do an in to out dex with your right leg and end on left clip. I guess it isn`t really gyro, so maybe it is spinning paridox drifter?, but not vortex which is hard enough. Anyway here is the notation again(if you didn`t look the first time). clip>spin>opp in>same clip -(a very hopefull that he has created a new move)Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 18 00:02:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA00079 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:02:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07079 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:09:22 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld602.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.152.2]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA09978 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:09:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980917150516.006c2e04@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:05:16 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #463 In-Reply-To: References: <199809162330.XAA06365@eniac.yak.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Re. Vince's post: >Oh, and while I am at it, quite a few freestylers of the highest order >of ability and respectability have told me I NEED to see a routine by some >kicker from Chicago I think? In fact, what they said was ERVERYONE needs >to see this routine if they consider themselves freestylers. >Something about his having hit what they called the epitomal freestyle >routine, the best routine ever. I would be very interested to know other list member's votes for "the epitomal freestyle routine, the best routine ever". For me personally, add count is a far less important factor than style / presence / choreography. Scott's routine was without a doubt the most thrilling two minutes of Worlds '98 for me. But the two minutes of freestyle that I continue to replay to the point of tape wear? Worlds '97 semifinals: The Regulator. Style aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 18 01:31:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA25583 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 01:31:06 GMT Received: from hawk.csrv.uidaho.edu (hawk.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.119.220]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09375 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:43:17 -0700 Received: from raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.192.43]) by hawk.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA24419; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hill9361@localhost) by raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id RAA21930; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:43:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.csrv.uidaho.edu: hill9361 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:43:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Hillebrand X-Sender: hill9361@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu To: Aaron de Glanville cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] '97 worlds In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980917150516.006c2e04@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Aaron de Glanville wrote: > But the two minutes of freestyle that I continue to > replay to the point of tape wear? Worlds '97 semifinals: The Regulator. Same here. _______________________________ Matt P. Hillebrand hill9361@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill9361 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 18 03:01:02 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA18382 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 03:01:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from m14.boston.juno.com (m14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.193]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11249 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:34:05 -0700 Received: (from rapidhavok@juno.com) by m14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DPD52N5J; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:33:53 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:31:17 -0400 Subject: [freestyle] Move add/name Message-ID: <19980917.223254.11758.0.RapidHavok@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,4-7 From: rapidhavok@juno.com (Jason W Donnelly) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, It's me Jason again. I got another question. I think this move is a 4 add but I don't know if it's even a move. What would it be if you did a left clipper to around the world with the opposite foot to butterfly. Would this just be a fancy paradox drifter? Thanx, Jason Donnelly T.N.W. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 18 03:32:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA27153 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 03:32:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11849 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:12:02 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id XAA23282; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:18:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:18:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: [eestyle] Moves and Adds In-Reply-To: <19980917.223254.11758.0.RapidHavok@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hiya, kids and fans! Topic Number four: Addition of difficutly [ADDS]: What's with this? Adds don't mean anything. I'm really sick of hearing about adds. Skateboarders don't have adds. Neither do surfers. Among players and judges, fans and aficionados of them (us included) it's understood that certain tricks are harder to do, some are harder to learn. It's really starting to sound to me like ' how many machines did your shirt go through before you actually put it on your back?' It's a repetitious, boring question. It's a repetitious, boring question. It's a repetitious, boring question. (AHem). Sorry. This constant attempt to evaluate ourselves/each other by means of a mathematical rating system is demeaning, counterproductive and an insult to my enjoyment of the sport {okay, here's the funny part- not to mention the noise pollution - why, poor Steve Goldberg has a permanent migrane from all the arguing!! I promise to be serious for the rest of this post.} I don't know how much surfer/skater info travells around the internet but one thing that does go around is respect for the sport itself. Concepts are good, naming concepts is good, naming moves is good - adds are bad. say NO to adds. I urge you all to contact your freestyle representative at the IFAB and urge him/her to eliminate the add system at their next meeting. Let's get a head start on the vote and never talk about it again! JP "You think I'm scared of you?!? I got *chunks* 'o guys like you in my STOOL!!" -Frank Sinatra (by way of Phil Hartman) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 18 04:40:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA19942 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:40:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA12771 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:19:13 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld65b.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.152.171]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA01100 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:19:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980917211553.006bcbe0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:15:53 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: [eestyle] Moves and Adds In-Reply-To: References: <19980917.223254.11758.0.RapidHavok@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Go Josh Penney! >This constant attempt to evaluate ourselves/each other by means of a >mathematical rating system is demeaning, counterproductive and an insult >to my enjoyment of the sport {okay, here's the funny part- not to mention >the noise pollution - why, poor Steve Goldberg has a permanent migrane >from all the arguing!! I promise to be serious for the rest of this post.} >I don't know how much surfer/skater info travells around the internet but >one thing that does go around is respect for the sport itself. Concepts >are good, naming concepts is good, naming moves is good - adds are bad. >say NO to adds. >I urge you all to contact your freestyle representative at the IFAB and urge >him/her to eliminate the add system at their next meeting. >Let's get a head start on the vote and never talk about it again! > >JP > Preach on, brother Penney! Many share your sentiment--I certainly do, with a passion. But the tricky part seems to be agreeing upon an alternate system (unless you also advocate the elimination of competitive freestyle). DAFTT may be too complex, but what about simpler changes to the existing system? No system will be perfect, but certain specific improvements could easily be made (I dare someone to ask me--anyone for an exciting, technical, migraine-inducing discussion?). free style aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 18 16:09:12 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA19158 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:09:12 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail-oak-3.pilot.net (mail-oak-3.pilot.net [198.232.147.18]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA19355 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:04:47 -0700 Received: from sparky.fibre.com (sparky.fibre.com [206.189.10.11]) by mail-oak-3.pilot.net with ESMTP id HAA28838 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zzz1wbmail1.fibre.com (zzz1wbmail1.fibre.com [10.1.4.31]) by sparky.fibre.com with ESMTP id IAA14946 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:17:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by zzz1wbmail1.fibre.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:15:12 -0700 Message-ID: <5FCA68163A73D1119D3600A0C98D7DE30129941E@zzz1wbmail1.fibre.com> From: Noah Shipley To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] Re: [eestyle] Moves and Adds Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:15:09 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Now it's preach on brother Aaron. I have agreed with Aaron's simple proposal for modifying the add system for awhile... I ask him to explain it. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 18 16:28:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA19278 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:28:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Message-Id: Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:03:36 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: EZ Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Rye Shred video available Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In case you haven't heard, I've recently completed a new shred video called "Rye Shred". I spent countless hours editing footage from 1998 World's, Western Regionals, Southern Regionals, and a little inbetween to bring you this 68 minute video containing 26 different shredders, phew! It's an excellent display of some of the best players in the world, and some of the up-and-coming players. Freestyle videos are not only dazzling and inspiring, but also great for tutorial- you get to see how others do certain moves and learn from them, no matter what your level of play. If you are interested in having your own copy of "Rye Shred" [to hold, honor, and cherish 'til death do you part] :-) you can contact me: ezshredz@yahoo.com for more information. Thanks, Eli Piltz p.s. utmost respect to Tuan + Sean for their hard work. Check out their videos, too. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 19 18:27:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA03406 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:27:31 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01262 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:05:49 -0700 Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA11661 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:05:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fatenet4.idirect.com (fatenet4.idirect.com [207.136.87.196]) by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA26215 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:05:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fatenet4.idirect.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BDE491.71825680@fatenet4.idirect.com>; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:23:16 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDE491.71825680@fatenet4.idirect.com> From: Rob Howe To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Breaking In The New Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:23:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id SAA03388 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, I just recently bought a 32 panel addidas and a 16 panel addidas footbag. I was wondering if there was any special way to break them in that is quicker then just kicking them? Rob From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 19 20:28:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA04578 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:28:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from adan.kingston.net (adan.kingston.net [205.189.48.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02518 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:03:03 -0700 Received: from [205.210.52.203] (203-g3.kingston.net [205.210.52.203]) by adan.kingston.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19333 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:02:48 -0400 Message-Id: <199809192002.QAA19333@adan.kingston.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:10:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Breaking In The New From: "Neil Bearse" To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ---> i have an 18 panel adidas footbag and it didn't take much at all to break it in. a couple of kicking sessions and just sorta workin it with your hands whenever you get the chance will do the job nicely. and the 18 panels are pretty wicked when you get em worked in well.... thats my two cents worth... -jester >Hi, I just recently bought a 32 panel addidas and a 16 panel addidas >footbag. I was wondering if there was any special way to break them in that >is quicker then just kicking them? > >Rob From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Sep 19 20:28:43 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA04596 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:28:43 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from adan.kingston.net (adan.kingston.net [205.189.48.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02556 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:06:05 -0700 Received: from [205.210.52.203] (203-g3.kingston.net [205.210.52.203]) by adan.kingston.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19526 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:05:56 -0400 Message-Id: <199809192005.QAA19526@adan.kingston.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:13:22 -0400 Subject: [freestyle] ankles From: "Neil Bearse" To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey all.. recently i rolled over on my ankle playing basketball,and shredding has been out of the question. i'm wonderin, since ankle injuries are sort of common for footbag, if anyone has any tips on rehabbing the injury / prevention.. cause im DYING to kick again ASAP! -jester From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Sep 20 01:55:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA32546 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 01:55:42 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mailhost.cyberramp.net (root@mailhost.cyberramp.net [207.158.64.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04029 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:58:36 -0700 Received: from jrichter (pm1-28.cyberramp.net [207.158.78.28]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with SMTP id RAA12198; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:58:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <360440C3.72E8@cyberramp.net> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:39:47 -0500 From: Joe Richter Reply-To: jrichter_nospam_@cyberramp.net Organization: Remove _nospam_ to reply X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Neil Bearse" CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] ankles References: <199809192005.QAA19526@adan.kingston.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Neil, Sorry about the ankle - Could be worse - I broke mine two years ago. For rehab, just make sure that you work hard (as early into the injury as you can) on regaining a full range of motion. Sounds silly, but my orthopedic doctor recommended things like: a) doing circles with your foot (by moving the ankle) - first one direction then the other. b) when you're sitting around - spell out the alphabet with your foot - this works the ankle in all directions. c) and about the best - the orthopedic doctor gave me a simple elastic strap - put the strap around your foot (holding the ends in your hands) and then do range of motion exercises against the tension of the elastic strap. The only prevention I've come to know (as far as footbagging is concerned) is to not try to do a new trick until you've thought about what you're going to be doing with your body. I got hurt because I tried something and didn't know what I was doing. Have fun bagging, Joe Richter Neil Bearse wrote: > > hey all.. recently i rolled over on my ankle playing basketball,and > shredding has been out of the question. i'm wonderin, since ankle injuries > are sort of common for footbag, if anyone has any tips on rehabbing the > injury / prevention.. cause im DYING to kick again ASAP! > -jester From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Sep 20 03:00:47 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA16868 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 03:00:47 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f26.hotmail.com [207.82.250.37]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA06185 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:34:53 -0700 Received: (qmail 15151 invoked by uid 0); 20 Sep 1998 02:34:22 -0000 Message-ID: <19980920023422.15150.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.109.239.162 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:34:22 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.109.239.162] From: "Dat Phan" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] cleaning footbags Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:34:22 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Do all of you forget your footbags in your pockets and get them washed with the laundry or do you use some other method to clean them? Is their a proper way to clean facile/suede? Dat Phan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 21 02:18:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA22855 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 02:18:36 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18195 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:03:33 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA10985; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:02:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx49-42.ix.netcom.com(198.211.45.170) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma010888; Sun Sep 20 16:01:47 1998 Message-ID: <36041D69.1739@utdallas.edu> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:08:57 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dat Phan CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] cleaning footbags References: <19980920023422.15150.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dat Phan wrote: > > Do all of you forget your footbags in your pockets and get them washed > with the laundry or do you use some other method to clean them? Is their > a proper way to clean facile/suede? > Sometimes, if you run a bag through the washing machine, the spin cyle will stretch it out unevenly... or so I've heard. I hand wash my bags with cold water and liquid dish soap. I think Dawn is what I am using now. With each washing, the fabric gets thinner and thinner. Somebody was asking earlier about good ways to break in bags. Washing is one of the best. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 21 02:20:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA22885 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 02:20:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dewdrop2.mindspring.com (dewdrop2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20509 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:21:42 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld6q4.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.155.68]) by dewdrop2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA07292 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:21:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980920171845.006aad3c@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:18:45 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: RE: [freestyle] Re: [eestyle] Moves and Adds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Now it's preach on brother Aaron. I have agreed with Aaron's simple >proposal for modifying the add system for awhile... I ask him to explain >it. Thanks Noah. It's simpler than DAFTT, anyway, though less accurate: 1. 'delay' is eliminated as an add category 2. no add for flyers (necessary modification if 'delay' is eliminated) 3. for an add, the 'paradox' dex must be the *first dex to occur* and here's the kinda tricky but most important part: 4. a bonus dex add is awarded for every: * spin/gyro in a dex move, if no other dex bonus is awarded * dex after the first (i.e. +1 add for double dex moves, +2 adds for triple dexes), _except_ for "dubbed" moves: double dexterity moves that pass behind two legs in a single direction (e.g. ripwalk, double-legover) Note that adds, for tabulation purposes, "don't count the set", but that a set actually does have bearing upon the difficulty of an individual trick. Hence: (trick) (add count) around the world 1 flying clipper 1 butterfly 2 osis 2 paradox mirage 2 double-legover 2 whirl 2 swirl 2 drifter 2 double a.t.w. 3 eggbeater 3 blur 3 atom smasher 3 torque 3 ripwalk 3 gyro mirage 3 barrage 3 paradon 4 barfly 4 legbeater 4 blurry whirl 4 gyro d.l.o. 4 whirling swirl 4 moebius 5 flurry 5 scorpion's tail 5 blurriest 6 paradon swirl 6 Not perfect, just a bit more accurate. Questions, comments, and critiques are very welcome. free style aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 21 03:21:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA07460 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 03:21:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22221 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:56:11 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id XAA20957; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:02:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:02:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] adds- blech! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980920171845.006aad3c@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org It's like watching the same episode of Star Trek again and again. Can we *please* change the channel? Okay? I'm getting super tired of checking my email and hearing stuff about adds. I'm the thickness of the soles on my lavers away from unsubscribing from this listservice (rejoice, oh ye of little humor!) just so I don't have to think about it or hear (read) it every two days. I've been actually thinking about a way to abolish the pesky critters, and though it's not completely thought out yet, I have no choice but to expose my initial ideas, naked and incomplete as they are, because my brain is melting. This thread's heating the serotonin in my skull to the point where it's verry haard 2 tipe. Faint of heart, read no further- Okay, where the rule book says: 505.01.C. Add counter just use a big black marker and get rid of the sucker. and where it says: 505.01.E. Composition judges change it to say: 505.01.E. Composition Judges- Three to five judges must write out a comparative listing of the players, measuring who had the most variety, based upon their own experience as players. This simplifies the whole system, as this section may be reworded slightly and used in the tabulation of composition, where 505.02.D used to be. And you could write almost the *exact same* paragraph for the tabulation of difficulty: 505.02.B. Scoring Tabulation: Difficulty Score: Three to five judges must write out a comparative listing of the players, measuring who had the most difficulty, in terms of tricks and combinations thereof, based upon thier own experience as players. Obviously, this isn't ready for the book just yet, because the system as it stands is much too mathematical, complex and unwieldy for simple solutions such as these. I'd have to 'smarten it up', or maybe I could just stick a whole bunch of meaningless formulas into it. I just wanted to let you know you'd have to be DAFT to keep the system as it is, or change or modify it to suit new moves- more moves will come along that will break your new toy and the next person who comes along to fix it will run into more problems that are exactly the same. Keep it comparative, keep it simple. >From the heart; JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 21 14:02:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA22051 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:02:07 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f39.hotmail.com [207.82.250.50]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA26837 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 03:31:19 -0700 Received: (qmail 19594 invoked by uid 0); 21 Sep 1998 10:30:47 -0000 Message-ID: <19980921103047.19593.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.131 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 03:30:47 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.131] From: "Andrew Feuerdrache" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: quit whining, (was) [freestyle] adds- blech! Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 03:30:47 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org From: (a fat and cranky) Josh Penney "It's like watching the same episode of Star Trek again and again. Can we *please* change the channel? Okay? I'm getting super tired of checking my email and hearing stuff about adds." Now there is a man with an open mind. As has been noted and lamented before this is a free for all, people can write whatever they want. If the subject keeps coming up one could asume that it is because it is an unresolved problem. If you don`t like it put in a little filter that sends all messages about adds to your trash and quit bitching. "I'm the thickness of the soles on my lavers away from unsubscribing from this listservice (rejoice, oh ye of little humor!)" Well that would solve a few problems wouldn`t it. "Okay, where the rule book says: 505.01.C. Add counter just use a big black marker and get rid of the sucker. and where it says: 505.01.E. Composition judges change it to say: 505.01.E. Composition Judges- Three to five judges must write out a comparative listing of the players, measuring who had the most variety, based upon their own experience as players." Well here your missing the big picture, the judging system now is screwed and the add counter will probably be eliminated from it when (if) it gets changed anyway. So the problem is how the players themselves are to rate moves. Just saying that some moves are harder than others is not really sufficiant. If you want an example I can barely do a simple cliper set swirl, which doesn`t make it harder than blurriest which I can do. The add system is also screwed and needs at the least an overhaul, but sence I for one like to know how everyone elce is doing, and by that I mean the relative difficulty of the moves they are hitting, I am not yet willing to totally scrap it without recource. -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 21 15:58:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA23411 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:58:39 GMT Received: from po.scs.unr.edu (po.scs.unr.edu [134.197.222.136]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA30118 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:32:26 -0700 Received: from empire.scs.unr.edu ([134.197.222.155]) by po.scs.unr.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA09556 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jeremyn@localhost) by empire.scs.unr.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA26256 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:32:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: empire.scs.unr.edu: jeremyn owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:32:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Nevin To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] I'm back Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey what is up freestylers?? I'm Jeremy Nevin. I just recently moved from Lake Tahoe, California to Reno, Nevada. People who know me I'm sure have been wondering what the hell has happened to Jeremy over the past few years? We'll the answer is simple...... I have been competing in the EXTREME SKIING WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. Anyway, just wanted to say hey and to let you guys know that I have been skoolin hard by myself (almost in secret) during this whole time that I have been gone. Rippen said something about a Christmas jam in Vegas??? See you guys there!! always kickin, Jeremy From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 21 16:50:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA07781 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:50:06 GMT Received: from po.scs.unr.edu (po.scs.unr.edu [134.197.222.136]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA30401 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:49:02 -0700 Received: from empire.scs.unr.edu ([134.197.222.155]) by po.scs.unr.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA12033 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jeremyn@localhost) by empire.scs.unr.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA14093 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:49:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: empire.scs.unr.edu: jeremyn owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:49:01 -0700 (PDT) From: JEREMY JOSEPH NEVIN To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] who said this!! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve Goldberg fowarded a message to me that was originally written by Mark Denton and I just want to clear it up. It is in regards to whether a triple around the world has ever been done: A while back I heard a guy named Jeremy Nevin did but wass recently told that it's not true. I guess my real questioon is how many of the moves on the list are theoretical(if any) and how many have actually been done. We'll Mark and the rest of the freestlye world I will tell you first hand that I have been hitting triples consistantly now for the past year and a half. Just the other day I hit: Right Toe Birrage - Left Toe Birrage - Triple - Triple - Double Over Down. So Mark, whoever told you that it is not true that triple have been hit, I suggest you tell them to come to Reno to play and I will show them first hand! By the way if any of you want to know the secret on triples, besides lightning fast feet, I would be glad to share my insight. I'm glad that I got that off my chest, Jeremy From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 21 18:38:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA09171 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:38:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pop03.globecomm.net (pop03.globecomm.net [206.253.130.65]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00053 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:10:34 -0700 Received: from who.net (dialup36.281.com [209.84.39.75]) by pop03.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id OAA17152; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:10:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3606984C.7261012F@who.net> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:17:49 -0500 From: Eric Burgess X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JEREMY JOSEPH NEVIN CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] who said this!! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org JEREMY JOSEPH NEVIN wrote: > We'll Mark and the rest of the freestlye world I will tell you first hand > that I have been hitting triples consistantly now for the past year and a > half. > By the way if any of you want to know the secret on triples, besides > lightning fast feet, I would be glad to share my insight. i think i speak for many of us on the list when i say, hell yes we want to know the secret!!! E From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 21 19:06:50 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA17749 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:06:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00343 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:27:13 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA16194; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:26:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcp103.atext.com(206.66.71.103) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma016174; Mon Sep 21 13:26:42 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3606984C.7261012F@who.net> References: Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:26:52 -0700 To: Eric Burgess From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] who said this!! Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:17 PM -0500 9/21/98, Eric Burgess wrote: >hell yes we want to know the secret!!! Ankle weights. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 21 21:11:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA19272 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:11:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dewdrop2.mindspring.com (dewdrop2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04286 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:35:21 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld6co.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.153.152]) by dewdrop2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA19147 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:35:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980921133219.00695e74@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:32:19 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I don't suppose there are any crazy mofos here in the Bay Area thinking of road tripping to the Texas State Championships on Oct. 10 & 11? aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 21 21:11:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA19273 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:11:37 GMT Received: from po.scs.unr.edu (po.scs.unr.edu [134.197.222.136]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03230 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:44:55 -0700 Received: from empire.scs.unr.edu ([134.197.222.155]) by po.scs.unr.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA18675 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:45:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jeremyn@localhost) by empire.scs.unr.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA06288 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:44:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: empire.scs.unr.edu: jeremyn owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:44:46 -0700 (PDT) From: JEREMY JOSEPH NEVIN To: freestyle Subject: [freestyle] tripples tripples tripples Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yes Steve is right... the secret to hitting those tripples is all in the use of ankle weights. I found that practicing footbag while wearing a 2 pound ankle weight on each ankle is the best way to start to go about conquering the tripples. Especially practicing the tripple rotation over and over again (on both feet of course) without a footbag. I generally do this in repetitions of 50 on each foot before I begin to play. This exercise not only strenghtens your legs greatly but it also trains your legs to do the tripple rotation. The other secret is the pixi set. I like to think of the tripple around the world as a "pixi- double around the world". With the pixi set, the bag is still on the way up and you have already done one around the world, so all that is left is a double. Easy right??? Well not really. But if you stick to these tips I guarantee that you will see the light! good luck!, Jeremy From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 21 22:20:19 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA03840 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:20:19 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dewdrop2.mindspring.com (dewdrop2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05001 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:15:25 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld6co.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.153.152]) by dewdrop2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA30065 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980921141230.006b37b0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:12:30 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds- blech! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yo, I'm trying to post!!! JP wrote: >Okay, where the rule book says: >505.01.C. Add counter > >just use a big black marker and get rid of the sucker. >and where it says: > >505.01.E. Composition judges >change it to say: > >505.01.E. Composition Judges- >Three to five judges must write out a comparative listing of the players, >measuring who had the most variety, based upon their own experience as >players. > >This simplifies the whole system, as this section may be reworded >slightly and used in the tabulation of composition, where >505.02.D used to be. > >And you could write almost the *exact same* paragraph for the tabulation >of difficulty: >505.02.B. Scoring Tabulation: Difficulty Score: >Three to five judges must write out a comparative listing of the players, >measuring who had the most difficulty, in terms of tricks and >combinations thereof, based upon thier own experience as players. Why not instead use the ranked-component dimensions of difficulty, execution, and presentation? > Obviously, this isn't ready for the book just yet, because the >system as it stands is much too mathematical, complex and unwieldy for >simple solutions such as these. I'd have to 'smarten it up', or maybe >I could just stick a whole bunch of meaningless formulas into it. Using the above dimensions, the most obvious way to "smarten it up" would be to have the execution score hinge upon # of drops, and the difficulty score to hinge upon *some* kind of simplified rating system, be it simple add count, a revamped add count, DAFTT...Whatever it is, difficulty is one dimension that shouldn't just be "eyeballed"--it is the dimension most in need of an objective system. [presentation is a whole other can of worms--a much bigger problem than the adds issue, as far as competition is concerned] > I just wanted to let you know you'd have to be DAFT to keep >the system as it is Hear, hear. But comparing *total* add count between routines is actually not too bad a reflector of difficulty. Using adds for *any* other purpose, I would say, is unforgivable. > or change or modify it to suit new moves- more >moves will come along that will break your new toy and the next person >who comes along to fix it will run into more problems that are exactly >the same. Keep it comparative, keep it simple. If people are intent on keeping the add system (or *some* kind of difficulty rating system), then the only thing that makes sense is to improve it. Doing *nothing*, as you say, would be nothing short of DAFT! Revolution! aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 21 22:20:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA03846 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:20:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dewdrop2.mindspring.com (dewdrop2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05295 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:29:29 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld6sb.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.155.139]) by dewdrop2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA03396 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:29:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980921142244.006b3194@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:22:44 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: quit whining, (was) [freestyle] adds- blech! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>"I'm getting super tired of checking my email and hearing stuff >>about adds." > >Now there is a man with an open mind. As has been noted and lamented >before this is a free for all, people can write whatever they want. If >the subject keeps coming up one could asume that it is because it is an >unresolved problem. If you don`t like it put in a little filter that >sends all messages about adds to your trash and quit bitching. > > The add system is also screwed and needs at >the least an overhaul, but sence I for one like to know how everyone >elce is doing, and by that I mean the relative difficulty of the moves >they are hitting, I am not yet willing to totally scrap it without >recource. > I think you speak for many; a revamped add or difficulty rating system seems to be preferable to having no system whatsoever. I personally find this an interesting and worthwhile discussion (it enticed me out of lurk mode...). For all his cantankerousness, I suspect JP does as well, considering the passionate postings he was inspired to write. kick sack aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 23 22:23:54 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA30621 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:23:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06610 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:00:25 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0EZR00D01ASYN1@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:38:58 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:38:58 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] tripples tripples tripples In-reply-to: To: JEREMY JOSEPH NEVIN Cc: freestyle Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > A) Congratulations B) Can you hit triples without doing the weight thing first? I know baseball players warm up with sledgehammers but don't need to in order to hit a homerun. C) While hitting the triples is very praiseworthy are you aware of damage ankle weights do to your legs? Practicing the rotations without the added weight is damaging enough because of the unnatural movement of the joint. With the added weight it's even tougher. > But if you stick to these tips I guarantee that > you will see the light! D) And a doctor! Just want to make sure we can all kick a long and happy life, BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 24 02:37:41 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA09110 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 02:37:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Matt Avery Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08671 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:31:06 -0700 Received: from StinKyKiwi@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id OWWSa03786 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:29:56 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <461e356c.36099284@aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:29:56 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Stepping Osis Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was just talking to Josh Childs, and he showed me the notation for a Stepping Osis. It looked just like the notation for a dyno though. Can anyone explain this move? Thanks a lot! Matt Avery Avery Bags From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 24 05:19:22 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA19124 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 05:19:22 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA11624 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:48:39 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA26068 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:48:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx36-23.ix.netcom.com(207.94.123.215) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma026056; Wed Sep 23 23:47:53 1998 Message-ID: <000601bde775$757602a0$d77b5ecf@matt> From: "Matt Strong" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Stepping Osis Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:40:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >I was just talking to Josh Childs, and he showed me the notation for a >Stepping Osis. It looked just like the notation for a dyno though. > >Can anyone explain this move? > A stepping osis is a blur set osis done on the same side as the blur set. >From a right foot clipper set, you would do a blur set (i.e. right foot clipper to left foot inside out mirage), then complete an osis with your left foot. This notation is the same as a blender, but a blender is a whirl bail to osis. With both moves, you do the dexterity with the same foot that does the osis, but with the stepping osis, the dexterity foot plants. A blender feels like a whirl, but right before you plant the dexterity leg, you twist and do an osis. A stepping osis is like doing a blur set, then spinning to get the osis with the dex foot. I hope this makes sense. -Matt p.s. Texas state is coming up in October. This tournament is a classic, and everyone should try to make it. Tina Lewis has been holding this tournament for a long time, and it is something everyone should attend at least once. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 24 06:09:48 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA03316 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 06:09:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA11935 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:45:47 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA00619; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 00:45:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx7-32.ix.netcom.com(207.94.122.160) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma000602; Thu Sep 24 00:45:34 1998 Message-ID: <36088CF8.4FA5@utdallas.edu> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:54:00 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Avery CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Stepping Osis References: <461e356c.36099284@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Matt Avery wrote: > > I was just talking to Josh Childs, and he showed me the notation for a > Stepping Osis. It looked just like the notation for a dyno though. A stepping osis is not the same as a dyno. It could be seen as the same as a blender though. Here goes the notation that I love so much: dyno: clipper > op out [dex] > (back) spin > same clipper or, you can think of it like a same side butterfly bailed to an osis blender: clipper > op in [dex] > (back) spin > same clipper or, you can think of it like a whirl bail to same osis stepping osis: clipper > op in [dex] (plant) > (back) spin > same clipper The only difference between the stepping osis and the blender is the plant. The stepping concept just means 'blurry same side'. So, think of a stepping osis as a blur set, plant, to a same side osis. Try linking stepping osis to stepping osis. That works both sides and it looks cool. That's all that really matters, isn't it? Kick on and, like Matt said, come to Texas State. We'll both show you the difference between dyno, blender and stepping osis in person. All it takes is a short drive to Austin. Seeing things first hand is by far the best way to learn. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 24 14:45:41 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA16628 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:45:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f238.hotmail.com [207.82.251.129]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA14838 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 01:59:51 -0700 Received: (qmail 5271 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 1998 08:59:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19980924085920.5270.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.130 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 01:59:16 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.130] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] the system Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 01:59:16 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well after countless hours in which I should have been doing my homework my Footbag Move Element Tabulator (yes that is the best name I could come up with) is finally some what finished. The system works on the same principle as Jobs` notation, that moves can basically be described by their spins, dexterities and ducks. My basic assumption is that a full spin a duck and a full dex are about the same basic difficulty. Along with the dexes and spins there are also three categories of modifiers that add to a moves difficulty. In this system the set does become more important than in the add system, but only so far as it defines the move, ie if it really affects the tabulation of the elements, however personal style is not counted, even if it affects difficulty. 1. A half Spin(in or out) or Dexterity counts gets 1, a full dex(ducks are counted as full dex) or spin is 2, a full in-spin is 3. Examples, for a full dex the dex foot must fully circle the bag(around the world) for half dex the leg just passes over the bag (butterfly, blur set). Spins are the same principle, half(osis) and full(spinning kick). 2.Modifiers a. Strength moves: flying, Symposium and Planting moves. Flying and symposium moves now get a point for EACH part of a CONSECUTIVE full dex. For example symposium torque(half a dex) gets 1 strength point, symposium barrage (1.5 dex) gets 2, as would symposium whir(2 dex). Planting is a little harder to explain. When there is a plant before a dexterity (stomping double leg over), or after a dex before another element(blur set), then there is a point awarded. The plant itself isn't`t important, it is just a signal that the Dexterity foot must go faster than normal. b. Restricted range of motion (rom). There are three possibilities here, when a catch, kick or dex is performed by a leg behind the other leg (clipper position), when a full dex is performed set from same cliper (paradox mirage), or when the bag must pass in front of a leg where no dex is counted between contacts, dex, ect...(drifter). c. Unusual surface. These are now broken in 2, unusuall stalling surfaces and unusual. So, out step, sole, pinch, head, knee, are worth 1, toe tip, heal, shin, ankle... are worth 2. If done after a dex they are all worth one more(blury pinch). Ok clear as mud? Finally some conventions to keep things clear. Leg overs,(either direction) are counted as a full dex. Symposium moves count like their non symposium counterparts, plus the symposium point(s). Rom points do not accumulate on the same leg, e.g. the dex in swirl is hard because of the position, but the catch is hard for the same reason, so only one point. Now I tried to keep this sucker as simple as possible which I may or may not have done. Anyway here are some examples. cliper= 1, rom osis= 2, half spin+rom Butterfly= 2, half dex+rom whirl= 3, full dex+rom barrage= 3, 1.5 dex clipper double3, half dex+full dex toe set dlo= 4, full dex+full dex eggbeater= 4 full dex+full dex paridon= 4, 1.5 dex+rom double atw= 4, 2 full dex blender= 4 rom+full dex+half spin paradox whirl=4, rom+full dex+rom blur= 4 half dex+plant+full dex torque= 4, half dex+full spin+rom stepping bfly=4 half dex+plant+half dex+rom ripwalk= 4 half dex+plant+half dex+rom blurry pinch= 4 half dex+plant+unusual+extra for following the dex whir= 5, 2 full dex+rom barfly= 5 rom+1.5 dex+rom twirl= 5 rom+full dex+half spin+rom atom smasher= 5 full dex+plant+full dex ripstein= 5 rom+2 full dex vortex= 5, full spin+half dex+rom+rom bluriest= 6 half dex+plant+1.5 dex+rom "paradox" twirl=6, rom+rom+full+half spin+rom superfly= 7, rom+1.5 dex+strength(2)+rom nemesis= 8 1.5 dex+plant+1.5 dex+rom Well that`s about it, does it make sense? If I get enough (good) feed back I`ll try and send out a better move listing. Remember before you complain that some moves are now worth more, the idea isn't that every move in a grouping is exactly the same difficulty, only that every 5 is harder for the average player than every 4. I have a few moves listed that I can`t do, so feed back on how good my groupings are would help, also any suggestions on how to make this sucker a little simpler would really help. -Andrew P.S. I would like to apologise to Josh P. for getting a little to personal. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 24 18:48:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA19568 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:48:14 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send1d.yahoomail.com (send1d.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.48]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA19796 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:18:08 -0700 Message-ID: <19980924171024.24118.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.191.53] by send1d; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:10:24 PDT Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:10:24 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] TX State/ Austin To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > -Matt > > p.s. Texas state is coming up in October. This tournament is a classic, > and everyone should try to make it. Tina Lewis has been holding this > tournament for a long time, and it is something everyone should attend at > least once. > Matt is right, TX State is a good tourney. But he missed the big picture: Austin- TX's diamond. Austin isn't really in TX (culturally)- it's just surrounded by it. Everything you've been raised (brainwashed) to believe about Texas does NOT apply to Austin. However, people do say "y'all" down there. If you go you will experience a really wonderful environment. The site is in Zilker Park- a 30 second walk to Barton Springs Pool- a natural, spring-fed pool where you can enjoy (what I think captures) the true essence and atmosphere of (pre-corporate)Austin. As for the nightlife, Austin is labeled the "live music capital of the world"- 6th Street houses more live music and dance clubs than you can imagine. Oh, and don't bother bringing long sleeves; it's still hot in October. Hey, Dallas Boys, don't get me wrong, "y'all" live in a cool place, too!.... well, unless you want to see a tree every now and then :-) Btw, I was raised in the great town of Austin; can you tell? Hope to see you there. Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 24 18:57:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA19608 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:57:42 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dept.english.upenn.edu (DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU [130.91.75.246]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA20198 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:43:50 -0700 Received: (from sunilj@localhost) by dept.english.upenn.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) id NAA45536; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:44:24 -0400 From: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani) Message-Id: <199809241744.NAA45536@dept.english.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] the system To: damocles_schwert@hotmail.com (Andrew McCargar) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <19980924085920.5270.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Andrew McCargar" at Sep 24, 98 01:59:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey All: I wanted to say something about some of these new proposals which has been bothering me for a while. I really feel that by eliminating adds for delays, we are discriminating against beginner players. Yes it is such a basic part of the game that more advanced players take a delay for granted, but at least for me, it was hard to do my first toe stall (lets not even mention the clipper stall). When I hit it I was psyched... it was something tougher than a kick. I feel that whatever our difficulty system is, it should not overlook this fact, nor the plight of the novice freestyler. It is important for the difficulty system to acknowledge and certify that a beginner player learning stalls is progressing by learning something more difficult than kicks. If we added a delay for the stall, would not all the moves (besides flyers) go up by one add and their relative difficulty (as warranted by the new stystems) be unchanged? The current add system already takes the stall in to consideration, and this is one aspect of it which I would not want to lose. Thanks for bearing with me. Sunil From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 24 20:53:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA21236 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:53:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Josh Childs Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21321 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:09:02 -0700 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 5CTHa02329; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <101c7d72.360a9826@aol.com> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:06:14 EDT To: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu, damocles_schwert@hotmail.com Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] the system Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 9/24/98 2:49:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu writes: > I really feel that by eliminating adds > for delays, we are discriminating against beginner players. Yes it is > such a basic part of the game that more advanced players take a delay for > granted, but at least for me, it was hard to do my first toe stall hey Stylers, I completely agree with Sunil on this, i remember when i first started kicking what a hard time i had with the good ol toe delays, and now that i think about it, maybe just the idea that it was part of the add system kinda made me feel like i was progressing, and pushed me to keep at it, as did seeing dexterity's, and clippers. So i'm say it helps to let the people that are starting out that even the simple toe delay has some difficulty to it. Josh Childs p.s. Sunil thanks for pointing out my problem with the prdx whirls at worlds From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 24 20:57:56 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA21269 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:57:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22318 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:16:46 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld6oc.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.155.12]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA19949 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980924131346.006c0b80@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:13:46 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: [freestyle] the system Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Even given the difficulties I have with Andrew's FMEF, it's *still* better than the current add system. I would probably be happy with *any* system that didn't equate a butterfly with an atom smasher! In your system, a *legover*=butterfly=osis. Who is that going to fly with? A *barrage* is less points than a toe-set double legover! That's a pretty obvious goof, too. Why does a "twirl" get 2 "rom"s? I *do* like it, Andrew. Although I must say I favor the simplicity of my own "adds-revised" system... :) There are now at least 4 existing alternatives to the current add system (DAFTT, FMEF, A.R.1 (adds-revised-1), and the long-discussed possibility of having a panel compose a move list with individually determined scores (based not upon move components, but simply upon approximate agreed difficulty). Kudos to all you who are passionate about making changes in the judging system in general--complacency never bred evolution. peace aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 24 22:20:27 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA14067 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:20:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22852 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:47:24 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld6oc.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.155.12]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA03828 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:47:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980924134424.006bdaa4@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:44:24 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: [freestyle] the system In-Reply-To: <199809241744.NAA45536@dept.english.upenn.edu> References: <19980924085920.5270.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sunil wrote: >Hey All: > > I wanted to say something about some of these new proposals which >has been bothering me for a while. I really feel that by eliminating adds >for delays, we are discriminating against beginner players. Yes it is >such a basic part of the game that more advanced players take a delay for >granted, but at least for me, it was hard to do my first toe stall (lets >not even mention the clipper stall). When I hit it I was psyched... it >was something tougher than a kick. I feel that whatever our difficulty >system is, it should not overlook this fact, nor the plight of the novice >freestyler. It is important for the difficulty system to acknowledge and >certify that a beginner player learning stalls is progressing by >learning something more difficult than kicks. I sympathize with your intention to "encourage" beginner players, but this in and of itself is not sufficient reason to retain 'delay' as an add category. Beginning players generally don't need to be patted on the behind with an add score the way us freestylers do. And did you hit your first toe stall with that catcher's mitt on your Lavers? Even beginning freestylers (especially those with shoes laced for freestyle) *very* quickly discover that delays are actually easier than kicks, in many ways. Delays make bag control far easier. Taylor Ott (11-year-old California State singles intermediate freestyle 2nd-place titleholder for '98) can do 10+ consecutive toe stalls. She can hit 3 consecutive kicks on a *good* day! (Am I right, Shorty Spice? Please correct me if this has changed...). Try hitting ripwalk to blur to paradon using kicks instead of delays, and *then* tell me about how delays are more difficult than kicks. Its enough for me to hear Shults himself say that "delay" as an add catagory is outdated. Spare those poor comp card judges who have to meticulously document the delay card being maxed out with every routine, instead of getting to kick back and enjoy the show! Kick on aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 24 22:27:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA14099 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:27:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from postal.interaccess.com (postal.interaccess.com [207.70.126.134]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22995 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:59:58 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.86] (d86.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.86]) by postal.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA24824; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:59:17 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980924085920.5270.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:57:22 -0600 To: "Andrew McCargar" , freestyle@footbag.org From: Enlightener Subject: Re: [freestyle] the system Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! Sounds like you put a lot of work into this... To me, it seems you are cutting off your fingers to spite your hand. You are making a simple (relatively) system into a monstrously complicated one, just so you can solve a "perceived" difference in reality>difficulty of about 1% of the possible moves (i.e. atom smasher, toe set blur and a rare few others). You were saying (okay, maybe not Andrew, but a bunch of people) that the Add system should be thrown away. But for what? To make it more complicated? Granted, a system like the one below could be used to judge a particular event, like an advanced shred event where the players submit the strings they will be attempting... but that is another story. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 24 22:28:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA14112 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:28:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23100 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:15:56 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA29724 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:15:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] the system Message-Id: <000000109732989516513@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:15:13 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, Sep 24, 1998, 3:13:46 PM US CDT Aaron de Glanville wrote: >There are now at least 4 existing alternatives to the current add system >(DAFTT, FMEF, A.R.1 (adds-revised-1), and the long-discussed possibility of >having a panel compose a move list with individually determined scores >(based not upon move components, but simply upon approximate agreed And here comes the creaking fossil to weigh in on the debate.... I too think its time to move on from the existing Add rating system, but I also think a good alternative is hard to find. The 'magical' appeal of the current add system is that is measures a player's interaction with the footbag in relatively understandable terms. It doesn't compensate for other stuff that it probably should, though. I've always thought that there should be some type of add given for "window" problem moves (i.e. paradox reverse mirage should be given an add for the 'window' problem of getting the dexterity leg back under the bag after the legover, not because of the 'paradox' thang). The paradox concept itself is a pidgeonhole for body momentum problems. But the add system doesn't really consider body motion problems (like the classic floor excersize evaluation criteria) because they aren't direct interaction with the footbag. The rote list seems the best way to me. Who doesn't more or less exist in this state anyway? Once you learn a move name and the add count, the formula for arriving at that add count sort of goes away and the "Blender = 4 adds" is what sticks in one's mind. I think anything else is more complex. All the other factors, like someone or a group 'controlling' the system and calling the shots, are about equal. So go with the simple one, eh? ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle - the "Computer Guy" Missouri Lions Eye Research Foundation Heartland Lions Eye Banks dfogle@mlerf.org - www.mlerf.org From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 24 22:28:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA14125 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:28:31 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pop03.globecomm.net (pop03.globecomm.net [206.253.130.65]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23353 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:41:56 -0700 Received: from who.net (DIALUP.281.com [209.84.39.134] (may be forged)) by pop03.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id RAA09346 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:40:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <360ABCC7.A37357DF@who.net> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:42:31 -0500 From: Eric Burgess X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] My freestyle difficulty-measuring system Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i have come up with a system that i think will put to rest once and for all, the problems associated with our current, outdated, innacurate add system. i call it the Freestyle Universal Categorical Difficulty measUrement Process, which may be abbreviated to F'DUP. moves are judged along three dimensions: dexterities, spins, and delays. DEXTERITIES =========== dexterities receive points based on how many rotations (or fractions thereof) the dex actually completes. this is measured in radians. for those of you who have been out of trig class for a while, there are 2*pi radians in a complete circle. here are the scores for some basic moves: NOTE: the scores shown are for the dexterity portion of the move ONLY. around the world (1 dex) = 2*pi (6.28) DATW (2 dex) = 4*pi (12.56) mirage or pixie set (about 3/4 dex) = 3/2*pi (4.71) butterfly (1/2 dex) = pi (3.14) now, when you switch dex legs, (such as a smear, blur, etc) it increases the difficulty of the move. therefore, each time the dex leg is changed, all subsequent rotations receive 1.5x the normal score. smear (3/4 dex, leg change, 3/4 dex) = 3/2*pi + 1.5*(3/2*pi) (11.78) blur (1/2 dex, leg change, 3/4 dex) = pi + 1.5*(3/2*pi) (7.85) pixie double-legover (3/4 dex, leg change, 1/2 dex, leg change, 1/2 dex) = 3/2*pi + 1.5*pi + 1.5*(1.5*pi) (16.49) note that the amount of dex (1/2, 3/4, etc) is only an approximation, and different people perform somewhat more or less of a dexterity depending on their style. thus, the scoring for each styler's moves will differ slightly. for example, if a person performs .73 of a full dex rather than .75 for a mirage, their score will be slightly lower than above. i'll post some more scores for common moves when i get a better calculator. SPINS ===== spins are rated similarly to dexes, with points being awarded for the number of radians of spin performed. however, if there is a direction change, the modifier for subsequent (opposite-direction) spins is 1.8x, reflecting the difficulty of changing spin direction. spin is measured by averaging the orientation of the pelvis and the shoulders. note that, as with dexterities, individual shredders will perform slightly more or less of a spin when doing the same move, and this will be reflected in the score. scores for a couple of moves (spin component only!): spinning clipper (about 2/3 of a spin, on average) = 4/3*pi (4.18) pdx torque (about 1/3 spin, direction change, about 1/2 spin) = 2/3*pi + 1.8*(pi) (7.74) DELAYS ====== the score for a delay is equal to pi/2 plus the amount of foot rotation (again in radians), divided by half the number of square inches of area on the stall surface. toe stall (approx 4 sq in, no rotation) = (pi/2)/2 (0.79) clipper stall (approx 6 sq in, pi/2 radians rotation) = pi/3 (1.05) heel stall (approx 2 sq in, pi/2 rotation) = pi/1 (3.14) ADDING IT ALL UP ================ well, as i said the moves are scored along three DIMENSIONS. it's unrealistic to simply add up the components. rather, each difficulty rating (dex, spin, delay) is put together to identify one point in an abstract 3-dimensional space. then, the distance from the origin becomes the final score for the move. this is found by using a 3-dimensional form of the Pythagorean Theorem: squareroot( square(dex score) + square(spin score) + square(delay score) ) ADDITIONAL MODIFIERS ==================== Symposium: square the score for any dex which is performed without a plant Paradox: one of the great things about this system is that it avoids the complexity of paradox altogether! Moves that are harder, but score lower: these moves are awarded a Factor for Unusual Difficulty Guage, or FUDG. the FUDG is equal to the difference between the score of the first move, and that of any other move whose difficulty is, in your opinion, equal. later on i'll post a computer program i'm working on to tabulate these scores. just bring a laptop computer (it requires a p2/350 or above) to all your shred sessions so that you can determine if your strings are guiltless or not (guiltless by the way is defined as a string where the moving average of the last 5 moves does not fall below 3pi). COMPETITION =========== this system will finally remove all the innacuracy from competition judging. i have designed a suit to be worn by competitors that can accurately measure dexterity rotation, spin angle, and foot torsion. the suit weighs 38 pounds and has 12 cables that attach it to the computer tabulator, but i'm sure that freestylers won't mind the slight encumberance in exchange for truly accurate scoring. i hope everyone will give my system a try. it's really not that difficult once you get the hang of it, and it gives a far more accurate assessment of a move's true difficulty. i'm confident that my new system will enhance the fun and enjoyment of freestyle for everyone. yes i have way too much freaking time on my hands E From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 24 23:23:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA31260 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:23:07 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pilot011.cl.msu.edu (pilot011.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.111]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24001 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:49:06 -0700 Received: from carrol39.user.msu.edu (carrol39.user.msu.edu [35.10.19.183]) by pilot011.cl.msu.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA29802 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:49:02 -0400 Received: by carrol39.user.msu.edu with Microsoft Mail id <01BDE7ED.0433A200@carrol39.user.msu.edu>; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:56:20 -0400 Message-ID: <01BDE7ED.0433A200@carrol39.user.msu.edu> From: carrol39 To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] the system Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:56:18 -0400 Encoding: 26 TEXT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Granted, a system like the one below could be used to judge a particular event, like an advanced shred event where the players submit the strings they will be attempting... but that is another story. -the enlightener. As a novice freestyler, I have to say that the add system we currently have is pretty simple to learn and apply. And for those who have spent their entire footbag career under the add system, such a change as the one presented (throw the old stuff out and start again) is a pretty huge leap. The newer systems that have been submitted are more difficult to understand than the current system because they are more specific. Although I also have to point out that any new system is going to seem complicated because it is different. We all know that butterfly is 3 adds. That is a given fact. What would be so different then if it was given a value of 4 or 39? It would simply have a new value. Given a short period of time (1-2 years?) the new system would become second nature, like the add system. Getting adjusted is hard, but to further the sport I think we should at least try out a few of the proposed systems. Three cheers to the people who are making this happen, I think it's great. "complacency never bred evolution" I couldn't have said it better. -Thomas "Big Toe" Carroll From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 24 23:27:56 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA31294 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:27:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from m14.boston.juno.com (m14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.193]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24068 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:51:50 -0700 Received: (from rapidhavok@juno.com) by m14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DPXR3EKG; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:50:54 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Move name/Add Message-ID: <19980923.185004.8678.0.RapidHavok@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-6 From: rapidhavok@juno.com (Jason W Donnelly) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:50:54 EDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, It's me Jason again. I was just wonderin what the name if any would it be if you did an around the world then catch it between your legs? And what is it when you do an out to in around the world to same side clipper? Thanx, Jason Donnelly T.N.W. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 24 23:57:25 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA07276 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:57:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f eceived: from hotmail.com (f188.hotmail.com [207.82.251.77]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA24232 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:03:32 -0700 Received: (qmail 22830 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 1998 23:03:00 -0000 Message-ID: <19980924230300.22829.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.72.213.14 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:03:00 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.72.213.14] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] This weather rules Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:03:00 EDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Here in PA the weather rocks. Its 64 at this very moment. It seems to help how well I do. In the past two days I've finally hit a right side leg-over, a Squeeze, a Mirage, and a Butterfly each for the first time. This is the best i've kicked in a long time. Two Q's: 1 does anyone else think that a out to in mirage is easier than an in to out mirage? I thought it was much easier and Kenny in tricks of the trade could hit many of these in a row while he would only hit a in to out one at a time. 2 Why is a butterfly kick/stall and dragon kick/stall have the same value? Shouldn't the stalls be rated higher in adds? Thats it. those near philly kick long while the weather lasts. Steve Miskiewicz ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Sep 24 23:58:27 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA07290 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:58:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pilot007.cl.msu.edu (pilot007.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.107]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24266 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:05:03 -0700 Received: from carrol39.user.msu.edu (carrol39.user.msu.edu [35.10.19.183]) by pilot007.cl.msu.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA20044 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:05:01 -0400 Received: by carrol39.user.msu.edu with Microsoft Mail id <01BDE7EF.40880D20@carrol39.user.msu.edu>; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:12:20 -0400 Message-ID: <01BDE7EF.40880D20@carrol39.user.msu.edu> From: carrol39 To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] F'DUP Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:12:18 -0400 Encoding: 16 TEXT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org . . . . wow. Eric, 4 stars for depth, 0 for practicality. I made it all the way to Calculus 2 in college, and I can understand why you made the choices you did. But I really wonder if this isn't some sort of joke. If it is, then it was very elaborate. If it's not (no offence) then I'm shocked. There were a lot of good ideas, but simplicity has always been a selling point on ANYTHING for me. This is by far the most complex scoring ritual that I have ever seen. And the idea of wearing a suit fits very well with the 3d modeling idea. The whole thing is genius, with a slight twist toward the mad scientist side of things. BT "I'll post some more scores for common moves when I get a better calculator." From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 25 02:30:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA17178 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 02:30:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dewdrop2.mindspring.com (dewdrop2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25848 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:26:05 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld6v5.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.155.229]) by dewdrop2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA18585 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980924182307.006c0ce8@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:23:07 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: [freestyle] the system In-Reply-To: References: <19980924085920.5270.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The Enlightened One wrote: >To me, it seems you are cutting off your fingers to spite your hand. You >are making a simple (relatively) system into a monstrously complicated one, >just so you can solve a "perceived" difference in reality>difficulty of >about 1% of the possible moves (i.e. atom smasher, toe set blur and a rare >few others). There seems to be a significant amount of agreement that the add system is very outdated and problematic. Despite my joke, the issues reach far beyond setting an atom-smasher apart from a butterfly. If this really only concerned "1% of possible moves", then I doubt many would have strong feelings on the matter. >You were saying (okay, maybe not Andrew, but a bunch of people) that the >Add system should be thrown away. But for what? To make it more >complicated? The add system should either be made *slightly* more sophisticated (as in A.R.1) in the service of greater accuracy, or replaced altogether, with perhaps the best/simplest alternative being the assigned-score system (A.S.S.?). A.R.1, for what it's worth, is hardly "monstrously complicated"; it adds little to the present add system beyond a "dex bonus" for most multiple dex moves. This seems to me a very small increase in complexity for a very significant increase in accuracy. On a slightly different note, there is a lot of resistance in general to changing the judging system at *all*, and I have growing reason to suspect that this has more to do with a deep-seated complacency/resistance to change than disagreement with the particulars of a given alternative. Some kind of variation on the ranked-component judging system (e.g. JP's) would be far *simpler* than the current judging system (it wouldn't even require "abolishing" the add system!), but it would require some politics, some transitional work, some *movement*--and it's always easier to champion the status quo. Otherwise we would have lit a match to that twisted, evil presentation card a long time ago, and replaced it with anything at all, for growth's own sake. "ya say ya want a revolution, well, ya know..." aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 25 02:57:48 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA25736 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 02:57:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dewdrop2.mindspring.com (dewdrop2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA26042 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:41:50 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld6v5.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.155.229]) by dewdrop2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA28867 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:41:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980924183854.006c0740@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:38:54 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: [freestyle] F'DUP In-Reply-To: <01BDE7EF.40880D20@carrol39.user.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Eric, 4 stars for depth, 0 for practicality. I made it all the way to >Calculus 2 in college, and I can understand why you made the choices you >did. But I really wonder if this isn't some sort of joke. What, the "special suit" didn't tip you off? Eric is just facetiously echoing Scott D.'s point that making the system any more complicated is not worth the trouble (while taking an enormous amount of trouble to do so). F'DUP *is* impressive at first glance, but wouldn't actually work out mathmatically, as Eric would be the first to tell you. Retarded system, good joke. Hey Eric, can you come up with something for the presentation card? aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 25 03:41:57 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA10279 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 03:41:57 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f186.hotmail.com [207.82.251.75]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA26674 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:48:23 -0700 Received: (qmail 3684 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 1998 02:47:52 -0000 Message-ID: <19980925024752.3683.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.155 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:47:52 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.155] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org, rapidhavok@juno.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move name/Add Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:47:52 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i call the first reverse miraging wheelchair, and the second is a toe set whirl. K > >Hey, It's me Jason again. I was just wonderin what the name if any would >it be if you did an around the world then catch it between your legs? And >what is it when you do an out to in around the world to same side >clipper? > Thanx, > Jason Donnelly > T.N.W. > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 25 04:00:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA10491 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 04:00:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from m14.boston.juno.com (m14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.193]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26843 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:02:08 -0700 Received: (from rapidhavok@juno.com) by m14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DPX8D85B; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:01:29 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] tourney? Message-ID: <19980923.230044.12814.1.RapidHavok@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2 From: rapidhavok@juno.com (Jason W Donnelly) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:01:29 EDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Is there a tourney on October 3rd in MD? If there is tell me what's gonna be happening. THanx, Jason ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 25 04:01:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA10510 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 04:01:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from adan.kingston.net (adan.kingston.net [205.189.48.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA27005 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:09:05 -0700 Received: from [205.210.52.16] (16-g1.kingston.net [205.210.52.16]) by adan.kingston.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA09886 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:02:07 -0400 Message-Id: <199809250302.XAA09886@adan.kingston.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:09:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [freestyle] My freestyle difficulty-measuring system From: "Neil Bearse" To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey all. as a far from pro freestyle player, my repertoire consists of nothing higher than an osis etc, the current add system works fine for my needs. i can understand the reasoning behind the argument that some higher moves are getting ripped off by being compared to simpler tricks, but the thought of getting rid of the add for a delay doesnt make much sense to me. i know that when i first started, toe delays were tough, inside delays near impossible and clipper delays were simply unthinkable. but after printing out the moves list, and seeing that these moves were worth something and in order to hit the higher rated moves, these simpler fundamentals had to be learned. i think that adds, points, (sub in whatever term fits the system of choice), should be awarded for the 'simple' aspects such as delays, just in order to keep beginners interested and excited with this sport that we all love. and thanx to Eric Burgess, i had been putting of studying for my math test that i have tomorrow, but just reading that email confused the HELL outta me, and my brain feels like i know no math anymore. so i am now motivated to go study for that damn test. school = evil, skool = heaven later all --> the JeSter >around the world (1 dex) = 2*pi (6.28) >DATW (2 dex) = 4*pi (12.56) >mirage or pixie set (about 3/4 dex) = 3/2*pi (4.71) >butterfly (1/2 dex) = pi (3.14) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 25 04:56:34 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA27584 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 04:56:34 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from node21.frontiernet.net (root@node21.frontiernet.net [209.130.129.196]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27786 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:12:13 -0700 Received: from default (srv-20-21.roc.ny.frontiernet.net [209.130.134.30]) by node21.frontiernet.net (8.8.8a/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA116364 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 00:12:10 -0400 Message-ID: <360B436C.2594@frontiernet.net> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 00:17:00 -0700 From: sean barron Organization: Frontier Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] and out comes the winter References: <3.0.1.32.19980924183854.006c0740@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org all you cold weather area kickers where do you kick when it gets cold and snows cuz one of those rochester winters is right around the corner From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 25 04:59:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA27614 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 04:59:10 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA28007 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:29:28 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA08934; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:29:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx7-47.ix.netcom.com(207.94.122.175) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma008923; Thu Sep 24 23:28:41 1998 Message-ID: <3609CC84.66AC@utdallas.edu> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:37:24 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeN Somolinos CC: freestyle@footbag.org, rapidhavok@juno.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move name/Add References: <19980925024752.3683.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org KeN Somolinos wrote: > > i call the first reverse miraging wheelchair, and the second is a toe > set whirl. > K > I have to disagree with these names. Reverse mirage means that you set the bag and then circle it from out to in with the *other* leg. Around the world is when you set with your toe and circle the bag with the *same* leg. Whirl is another one of those that the dexterity is not done with the set leg. A toe set whirl would be a toe set to the *other* leg doing a whirl dexterity (in to out) and then catching the bag on the setting foot clipper. Or, for simplicity's sake, here is the notation: toe > op IN [dex] > op clipper which means toe set > the other leg goes around from in to out > then the other leg (not the one that just went around) catches the bag on a clipper. > > > >Hey, It's me Jason again. I was just wonderin what the name if any > would > >it be if you did an around the world then catch it between your legs? If you do a quick in to out dex before anything else, it is called a pixie set. So, this move would be called a 'pixie lap catch'. Or, if the dexterity is done the other way (out to in) it is called a fairy set. So, if this is the direction you are circling the bag, this would be a 'fairy lap catch' > And > >what is it when you do an out to in around the world to same side > >clipper? Sounds to me like a butterfly. If you do the dex from in to out, then the move looks like a whirl, but as I said above it isn't. It is just called a pixie same side clipper. Enjoy. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 25 05:36:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA11847 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 05:36:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from MIT.EDU (SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.72.1.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA28437 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:07:32 -0700 Received: from BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13906; Fri, 25 Sep 98 01:07:27 EDT Received: by buzzword-bingo.mit.edu (8.8.7/4.7) id BAA21640; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:07:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809250507.BAA21640@buzzword-bingo.mit.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] My freestyle difficulty-measuring system In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:42:31 CDT." <360ABCC7.A37357DF@who.net> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:07:29 EDT From: Samuel A Hires Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In regards to the F'DUP system, since all the moves are a multiple of pi, just let the pi's drop out! Now the system is really viable. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 25 16:48:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA02962 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:48:15 GMT Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA32343; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 06:09:31 -0700 Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu ((IDENT root)@rac9.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.149]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id JAA24394; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu ((IDENT sendmail)@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id JAA08715; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id JAA08710; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:09:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac9.wam.umd.edu: rvbpaco owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:09:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley To: footbag@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Rebel Alliance Event Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Apparently in my going overboard with a theme I forgot to mention that this event will be held near or in Washington DC. We have sites reserved in several areas, we just haven't decided exactly where, (potential sponsorships, University red tape) so please use the contact information. Directions to Wily Veteran's Rebel Base are as follows- from the north side, find routes to 95 south. from the south side, find routes to 95 north. from NE take 95 south under the bridge at baltimore, to 495. from SW take 95 north and pick a side- you will be on the exact opposite side of 495 beltway from college park and the rebel base exit. (from north only ) at intersection of 95 and 495, take the side heading towards Silver Spring (right two lanes will split off). take New Hampshire Avenue exit towards takoma park aka rte 650. at second light make a left onto Adelphi Road. from Adelphi, at third light make a right onto University Blvd. from University make the first right onto Temple Road. Make a left at the edn of temple onto Chatham Road. the base is the last structure on the left, #3301. from Central PA, take 83 south to 695 west to 95 south. need anything, please use the contact numbers. let us know when you are coming and if you need lodging. lots of room available, but we need to know. Contact info: October 3rd, NET- Wily Veteran ( Vince Bradley ) Kenobi 301-422 -8738 rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu October 4th, FREESTYLE - Wily veteran also, or Lando Free Roaming, uh, i meant Spirited, Vegan Boy at 202-518-2533, payne@ici.org thanks, sorry for the extra post vince oh, if you are coming from way WAY out, washington dc is the smaller city antirotationally located from the large city on the starward side of a huge bay situated in the starward hemisphere on the roatiational side of the skinny continent about halfway between the hemisphere split and the axial point on the starward side, on th blue planet third from a yellow star with nine planets total on the outer reaches of the milky way galaxy, on the outer reaches of the main galaxy cluster that we have found. just listen for ridiculous electromagnetic broadcasts, follow them and you may find us. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 25 16:48:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA02973 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:48:42 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pop01.globecomm.net (pop01.globecomm.net [206.253.129.185]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA00607 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:19:03 -0700 Received: from who.net (DIALUP.281.com [209.84.39.121] (may be forged)) by pop01.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id LAA13732; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:18:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <360BB510.4736B75A@who.net> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:21:52 -0500 From: Eric Burgess X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aaron de Glanville CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] F'DUP References: <3.0.1.32.19980924183854.006c0740@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Aaron de Glanville wrote: > Hey Eric, can you come up with something for the presentation card? > > aa oh, i forgot that part. you flip a coin. E From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 25 16:48:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA02987 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:48:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail.accnorwalk.com (mail.accnorwalk.com [207.87.221.24]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA00043 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:24:50 -0700 Received: from vernd ([207.87.222.34]) by mail.accnorwalk.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release 0122 ID# 564-48782U3500L350S0) with SMTP id AAA72 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:27:24 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Vern DeHaven" To: Subject: RE: [freestyle] My freestyle difficulty-measuring system Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:21:14 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bde88f$c227d680$590a10ac@vernd.geotrac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I LOVE THIS! Are you a member of Mensa? Allow me to geek out a bit more: To truly score dexterities, instead of measuring only the rotation, should we not add two other dimensions? One: the other spatial dimension, namely the "vertical" dimension, or how far the leg travels along the Z-axis. And two: the time dimension. The longer one takes to complete a dexterity, the more difficult the move, correct? We would then have a 4-dimensional arc in which to measure each dexterity. Delays and spins should also inherit the same type of scoring. (Jumping spins would merit a Z-axis measurement.) >From here, in order to score a tripless routine, length of each move would be required to match or better the circumference of a "unit sphere" of a length of 1 second. The diameter of the unit sphere is the competitors height. Guiltless routines must better 2/3 of the unit sphere of length .66 second, etc... The "longest" routine would take the prize. We could use Steve's PowerBook to compute the arcs, right Steve? Oh, I almost forgot. What about the fifth dimension? There should be some concession for whatever aura the competitor is playing through. The thicker and heavier, the larger the modifier. An ambivalent aura would score the base modifier of 1. Happy-go-lucky auras would unfortunately suffer the heaviest hit: a modifier of .25. So all you Robert Smiths out there got it goin' on. I'm sure that those threatening asteroids out there have an effect on the fifth dimension, but I can't figure out how it figures in. Any insights? Vern From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 25 17:46:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA20221 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 17:46:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: SHAHRAYAR@aol.com Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02135 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:23:33 -0700 Received: from SHAHRAYAR@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id OLORa22057 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:22:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <27ec3463.360bd159@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:22:33 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Rebel Alliance Event Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 9/25/98 12:30:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu writes: << oh, if you are coming from way WAY out, washington dc is the smaller city antirotationally located from the large city on the starward side of a huge bay situated in the starward hemisphere on the roatiational side of the skinny continent about halfway between the hemisphere split and the axial point on the starward side, on th blue planet third from a yellow star with nine planets total on the outer reaches of the milky way galaxy, on the outer reaches of the main galaxy cluster that we have found. just listen for ridiculous electromagnetic broadcasts, follow them and you may find us. >> Vince, A) What are you on? B) Can I get some? :-) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 25 18:21:38 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA28896 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 18:21:38 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02371 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:39:13 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0EZU00401P46MF@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:40:54 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:40:54 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] and out comes the winter In-reply-to: <360B436C.2594@frontiernet.net> To: sean barron Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, sean barron wrote: > all you cold weather area kickers where do you kick when it gets cold > and snows cuz one of those rochester winters is right around the corner > Thankfully this year I have a heated 6 car garage to kick in. But, in previous winters I would go to a gym on my college campus or any other college campus. A lot of times you don't need an ID to get in. There are also YMCA's and JCC's and all kinds of other gyms that you and some friends could probably get a group or family discount at. And don't forget the ever lovable underground parking garages. They usually have enough heat trapped in them to keep from freezing. In Rochester I remember kicking at the AMTRAK station whle waitng for a train. You can always use that as an excuse. BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Sep 25 19:09:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA13181 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 19:09:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03493 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:30:47 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0EZU00701RI5VF@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:32:29 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:32:29 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] old and improved system To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I believe we already have a certain knowledge as to the difficulty of the well established tricks (i.e. blur, legbeater, vortex, blistering whirl) just by having done them or seeing them done. So here's my proposal: Kick it, stall it, spin with it, throw your legs all around it, flip over it or spit on it, but in between, don't drop it. If you drop it, pick it up and start again. Now that's all fine and dandy for good old fashioned fun, but "What about competition?" you say... If you hit a vortex, paradox legbeater, symposium blur, triple over down. Then you're better than the guy hitting legover, legover, legover, around the world. I know the dream is OLYMPIALAND and for that we need a complex, nearly illegible system with which judges can score, but right now aren't we judging ourselves!? Most of the judges being BAP or otherwise technically inclined players can see what the competitor is doing and knows the difficulty of the routine without needing to put numbers on it. A certain BAP GURU friend said to me one fine day, "I don't care how many adds that trick is worth, if you hit it, it's respectable." Isn't that what we all say to newcomers and friends. We all want to be better than ourselves and, to an extent, better than eachother, BUT we don't want to turn into Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding either just because your adds bigger than mine. So if your new and you hit a mirage... KUDOS, now hit it weak side. If your BAP and you hit everything good side and weak... KUDOS, now teach someone else the same. I like competition like the rest of the world, and yes it takes a scoring system... so how about this 1st place = you looked great 2nd place = you looked good 3rd place = you looked rusty 10th place = back to skool Or we just stay with the competition judging system as is since it mostly works. Make minor modifications as needed, but why revamp it altogether when an Olympic committee would scratch it again later. Idealistically yours, BRAD P.S. Please be gentle... and use lubricant!!!!!! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 05:20:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA18461 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 05:20:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dewdrop2.mindspring.com (dewdrop2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA02430 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:49:48 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld64c.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.152.140]) by dewdrop2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA17230 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 19:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980927164619.006c3f90@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:46:19 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org More ideas to share. "AR1" could be simplified *even further* (let's call it "AR2"): * * * Start with the add system we all know (and love?). Include TWO SIMPLE AMENDMENTS: 1. the paradox dex must be the first to occur (to score an add) 2. a bonus dex add is awarded for: A) every dex after the first, except in the case of "complementary" double-dex moves (two legs dexing in same direction). B) every spin/gyro in a dex move not awarded the above bonus * * * (the people who want adds for their delays should like this!) Let the resulting scores speak for themselves. Minimal change, significant improvement. Talk to me. aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 05:27:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA18491 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 05:27:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04009 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 19:24:22 -0700 Received: from [144.92.180.32] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id VAA101082 (8.8.6/50); Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:24:19 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980927211734.0069be64@students.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mklewand@students.wisc.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:17:34 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Matthew Kain Lewandowski Subject: [freestyle] move list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Not to sound like a complainer, but the online move list is getting a bit dated (just look at how many new moves people post each month). Is anyone working on a new one or trying to update the old one? Whoever would choose to take on this massive endeavor would certainly recieve many a thanks from the footbag community... (yeah I am too lazy to do it myself) Anyone? Matthew Kain From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 05:27:08 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA18497 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 05:27:08 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from ucs.orst.edu (mccombsa@UCS.ORST.EDU [128.193.4.5]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA05040 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:43:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (mccombsa@localhost) by ucs.orst.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA03284; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:41:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Avery Mc Combs To: KAPLAN BRADLEY M cc: Lynton Stephens , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: syposium blur In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I can't hit syposium smear because it is too awkward but I can hit symposium blur. The way I do it is by using a pogo set and then planting my (clipper) set foot and doing the symposium mirage. It is not that difficult if you have a good pogo set and plant your mirage leg as soon as you finish the pogo. > BRAD > > P.S. Anyone out there hitting symposium smear or blur? I hit s. smear but > not s. blur yet. Tips appreciated. > > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 14:02:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA32075 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:02:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from iuakk.fi (qmailr@lux2.iuakk.fi [194.89.13.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA09438 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 04:37:13 -0700 Received: (qmail 789 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1998 11:36:46 -0000 Received: from x2-56k.ppp.32.iuakk.fi (HELO iuakk) (194.89.12.98) by lux2.iuakk.fi with SMTP; 28 Sep 1998 11:36:46 -0000 Message-ID: <001901bdead5$02e90080$010000c4@iuakk.iuakk.fi> From: "pillar" To: Subject: [freestyle] clipper stall.. Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:41:51 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hi, i have been kicking about a month now, and i just learned how to hit leg over and something.. but clipper stall seems quite difficulty for me. Is here any nice pro who can help me with it? Any help is appreciated! Thanks! Juha From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 15:55:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA00678 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:55:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f208.hotmail.com [207.82.251.99]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA11019 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:28:20 -0700 Received: (qmail 15554 invoked by uid 0); 28 Sep 1998 15:27:25 -0000 Message-ID: <19980928152725.15553.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.130 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:27:20 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.130] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Thanks, clarification, 1% and the new system. Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:27:20 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well I would like to thank all who responded to the second draft of my move rating system, which is as I suspected still a bit too complicated to be a real replacement. Although after exploring all the contrivances of the add system( ie that wonderful paradox add) it really isn`t so bad. I also had a few things to clear up. 1. By proposing a new move rating system I am not talking at all about judging, I have already opened that can of worms before, and I have no desire to do so again in the near future. Besides for the purposes of judging where the number of triks done are so depressingly predictable and well known, it would be silly not to just sit down a pannel and rate them. However for new moves this is not practicle, there are too many of them, and there are too few people doing them. Which leads me too. 2. For the purposes of judging move difficult, at least I, am not concerned with the difficulty of learning a new move, only it`s realtive difficulty compared to other already learned moves. So toe stalls, which are at least as easy as basic kicks for most "advanced" players are not counted. 3. The add system is (in my opinion) fairly good, I have however composed a partial list of Scott D¥s 1% of all moves that aren`t rated fairly. atom smasher; dragon; toe set blur; toe set blizard; ripstein; supperfly; in-spining mirage; high plains drifter; grro double legover; stepping mirage; stepping leg over; double swich over; toe barrage; double pixi leg over; tripple atw; stomping double leg over; flurry; fairy clipper; fairy same leg over; fairy mirage; ducking mirage; ducking blur; vortex; spinning (paridox) mirage; atomic whirl; anything else "atomic"; just about any dex move ending in a kick; paridox blur; paridox blizard; dragon; paridox egbeater; ect. ect.ect. + the king of all inflated moves: paridox dada curve. That`s about 1% of over 3000 moves, better start updating that move list Steve ;) 4. A new system is in the works, thanks for the bit of encouragement, and for F¥DUP, which was true art. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 16:06:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA09184 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:06:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA11172 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:42:05 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld69m.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.153.54]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA24091 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980928083904.006a8188@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:39:04 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980928080341.0080e830@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> References: <3.0.1.32.19980927164619.006c3f90@pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>1. the paradox dex must be the first to occur (to score an add) >>2. a bonus dex add is awarded for: >> A) every dex after the first, except in the case of "complementary" >>double-dex moves (two legs dexing in same direction). >> B) every spin/gyro in a dex move not awarded the above bonus > >So Blizzard is six adds and so is blurriest, paradox torque. double legover >and blender are four along wuth eggbeater and atom smasher. >Gotta work it out, talk later Don't scare me, Josh. These were supposed to be *simple* changes. Double Legover=3 (dex-dex-del) "Complementary" dexes--no bonus. Blizzard=4 (dex-dex-(+dex)-del) One bonus dex. No paradox add. Eggbeater=4 (dex-dex-(+dex)-del) Blender=4 (dex-bod-xbod-del) Atom Smasher=4 (dex-dex-(+dex)-del) Paradox Torque=5 (bod-dex-bod-xbod-del) No spin. No bonus. Blurriest=7 (dex-dex-dex-(+dex)-(+dex)-xbod-del) Two bonus dexes. Again, if the scores seem high, keep in mind that *most* scores in AR-2 are higher. Thanks aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 16:42:51 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA17854 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:42:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA11284 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:49:17 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld69m.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.153.54]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA07164 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:49:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980928084617.006c9eb4@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:46:17 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >2. a bonus dex add is awarded for: > A) every dex after the first, except in the case of "complementary" >double-dex moves (two legs dexing in same direction). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >Aaron, > >Explain this a little better. > >As I read it, paradon would be 5 adds, paradon swirl would be 7!!! You're reading right. It may sound high at first, but the AR-2 system necessarily bumps up the value of most moves (barrage=4, legbeater=5, flurry=6). Compare the scores overall! As with the old add system, moves that *end* on a clipper still get a bit of an edge in the ratings, since we "don't count the set". Again, accuracy is still *very* approximate, just improved (e.g. now the only multiple dex move with the same add count as butterfly and osis is double-legover...there are no longer any triple-dex moves equivalent to a torque or dada, etc.) Thanks aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 16:57:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA17924 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:57:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11683 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:14:59 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.216] (d216.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.216]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA03213; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:14:46 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980928083904.006a8188@pop.mindspring.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980928080341.0080e830@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> <3.0.1.32.19980927164619.006c3f90@pop.mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:19:03 -0600 To: Aaron de Glanville , freestyle@footbag.org From: Enlightener Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! Nice effort guys! You have successfully made something that was relatively simple, into a completely impossible to understand, hodgepoge of concepts overlapping into obscurity. Effectively making some moves worth more (that don't deserve it) and others worth the same or less, that don't necessarily need it. One major point that a lot of people are missing... The "Add" system wasn't really designed to measure "difficulty", but to determine "unique moves" and what moves are different from each other and how. Its use evolved into the dynamic of "measuring difficulty" which is what you are struggling with now. My first observation is: "Any system that keeps Paradox torque at 5 points and puts Blurriest at 7 is flawed from the get-go". Certainly Blurriest isn't that hard! I speak from experience, it may look hard, but it isn't really that bad. >Paradox Torque=5 (bod-dex-bod-xbod-del) No spin. No bonus. >Blurriest=7 (dex-dex-dex-(+dex)-(+dex)-xbod-del) Two bonus dexes. You guys might want to make a clarification right now... Keep the add system to determine "unique moves", so nothing in the current judging system changes. No waves, not even ripples. *Then*, develop a new system that accurately measures "difficulty" of moves. Use it to discuss moves on the internet, to say "wow, that dude did a 9 to a 7 to an 8, awesome!" Or, "that combo is righteous" with some system to support that comment. Use it for whatever, then after it is solid, and everyone understands it, then we propose it to the IFAB Freestyle Committee director (me) and consider it for some kind of implementation into judging. IOW, it has a long, long, way to go, but the old phrase "necessity is the mother of invention" holds true still today. Keep up the faith! See ya! Scott. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 17:28:59 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA26457 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:28:59 GMT Received: from po.scs.unr.edu (po.scs.unr.edu [134.197.222.136]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11860 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:26:12 -0700 Received: from empire.scs.unr.edu ([134.197.222.155]) by po.scs.unr.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA10713; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jeremyn@localhost) by empire.scs.unr.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA10369; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:26:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: empire.scs.unr.edu: jeremyn owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:26:09 -0700 (PDT) From: JEREMY JOSEPH NEVIN To: KAPLAN BRADLEY M cc: freestyle Subject: Re: [freestyle] tripples tripples tripples In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Brad replied to the idea of hitting tripples: While hitting the triples is very praiseworthy are you aware of damage ankle weights do to your legs? Practicing the rotations without the added weight is damaging enough because of the unnatural movement of the joint. With the added weight it's even tougher. So Brad....what are we going to do stop at doubles?? We'll maybe you are. Maybe your knees are messed up. I have been training with ankle weights for almost 6 years now since I hit my first double. I have skied over 800 days in this period. I just hiked Mt. Shasta last weekend. I hit a few tripples this morning and you know what????....My knees are stronger than ever. The ankle weights are a way to strengthen your legs in general. I have not used ankle weights for over a year now. It is only a temporary exercise that will benefit you greatly. So Brad my advice to you is..... Get out of your rocking chair and live life. Freak. Jeremy From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 18:03:17 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA02255 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:03:17 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13143 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:36:34 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA22359; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:35:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx6-04.ix.netcom.com(207.94.122.68) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma022278; Mon Sep 28 12:35:20 1998 Message-ID: <360E7995.179E@utdallas.edu> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 12:44:53 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Kain Lewandowski CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move list References: <3.0.2.32.19980927211734.0069be64@students.wisc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Matthew Kain Lewandowski wrote: > > Not to sound like a complainer, but the online move list is getting a bit > dated (just look at how many new moves people post each month). I'm sure Steve will correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember hearing him say a while back that when the new badass moves list is finished, there will be a way for people to submit new moves. So, when you are looking through the list and don't see a move that should be there, you can just fill out a form with the description or something like that. The freestyle moves list that Steve and Adrian have already put up is a very complete list. I hope that the day will come when I look at that list and consider all of the moves on there old and easy, but I don't see that happening for a while. For all of those who haven't seen this list - it has descriptions and video demonstrations - you owe it to yourself to check it out. Every time I look through it, I get some new ideas of things to try. The address is: http://www.footbag.org/movelist/TheList.htm Look over it and try some of the stuff... see how dated it is :) Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 19:33:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA28835 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:33:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13400 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:59:26 -0700 Received: from [206.66.71.218] (dhcp91 [206.66.71.91]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27930; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <360E7995.179E@utdallas.edu> References: <3.0.2.32.19980927211734.0069be64@students.wisc.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:57:34 -0700 To: scalf@utdallas.edu From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] move list Cc: Matthew Kain Lewandowski , freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:44 PM -0500 9/27/98, Derric Scalf wrote: The address is: >http://www.footbag.org/movelist/TheList.htm Actually, that's the old address. You just need: http://www.footbag.org/movelist/ And, yes, I am still working on it. As I said before (a few weeks ago) when I first told people about the new list, please don't submit bug reports or requests to extend the list until I've finished. I released it as a "work in progress" figuring that it'd be better to give people what I had than to keep them wondering. (I usually have 2-3 projects going on in the background and I pull them out when they're mostly finished so people can take advantage of them. Needless to say, it's frustrating to spend hours on a project that nobody can see, so sometimes I jump the gun. Since this whole thing is my idea, please give me the benefit of the doubt that I'm doing it right, and lay off on the requests/complaints until I'm done! I'll make a huge announcement when the time comes. Until then, I'm psyched everyone is so stimulated by the work I do. :-)) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 19:37:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA03649 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:37:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13489 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:02:31 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA25547; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:02:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx6-04.ix.netcom.com(207.94.122.68) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma025380; Mon Sep 28 13:00:22 1998 Message-ID: <360E7F7C.5247@utdallas.edu> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:10:04 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pillar CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] clipper stall.. References: <001901bdead5$02e90080$010000c4@iuakk.iuakk.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org pillar wrote: > > hi, i have been kicking about a month now, and i just learned how to hit leg > over and something.. but clipper stall seems quite difficulty for me. Is > here any nice pro who can help me with it? Any help is appreciated! > Ahhh... it took a bit more than a month to start hitting clippers, and a bit more than a year for them to become easy. Patience is key. Keep trying them over and over - always on BOTH SIDES!!! Here are some things to keep in mind: 1. *Curl your toes down into a fist*. This makes the inside surface of your foot a bit wider. If you don't believe me, put your foot in the clipper position and point your toes up. Woomp, you just lost half of the width of your clipper surface. 2. *Try to get your foot as level as possible*. If your toes are pointing toward the ground, the bag will just roll off. Stretching your ankle helps this. 3. *Bend your support leg* (the one you are standing on). By bending your support leg, you can cushion the stall without having to move your clipper foot as much. This is good because it helps smooth out the stall. The knee of your support leg should bend just about 90 degrees. 4. *You want the clipper to be done beside you, not behind you*. If you bend your support leg, there is room for your stalling leg to go behind your knee and get the foot beside you. If your support leg is straight, when you put your clipper out, it will have to either go through your knee (this is both painful and impossible), or your clipper foot will end up too far behind you. So, again, bend that support leg. 5. Remember that it is a stall - not a kick. Practice by catching the bag on the clipper. Try to actually stall it - don't just pop it immediately back up. If you can catch and hold the clipper delay for, oh, let's say 5 seconds, then you have proven your balance and control. Remember - BOTH SIDES!!! Now, for some ways to practice... Hold the bag in your right hand about waist high. Get your left foot in the cross body postion. As you drop the bag, bend your support leg (in this case, the right leg) and try to GENTLY cushion the bag with your left foot clipper. You can practice this while you are on the phone, standing in line, or waiting for your corndogs to finish microwaving. This is the kind of practice that won't make you sweat so you can do it anywhere at any time. Remember though - BOTH SIDES!!! Another good way to practice is by catching the bag on an inside delay. Then, wrap your foot around to the cross body position without letting the bag fall off. This is a lot harder than you think it will be. From this, you will get better ankle flexibility and a feel for keeping your foot level. This is key for clippers. And, yep, you got it... BOTH SIDES!!! Did you expect a book as a response? Sometimes I get a little carried away. It is very important that beginners are encouraged in this sport. Once you get clippers, you will be hooked and it will be your turn to spread the word. Clippers are key in 80% of advanced freestyle moves. If you can do both sides, you can hit many many more moves. If you make an effort to do everything that I told you about, I promise that you will hit clippers pretty regularly within a week or so. Just keep practicing and concentrate on the form. Think about what both legs are doing - not just the clipper foot. Any other questions, or if I wasn't clear, let me know. Kick on. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 19:57:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA03744 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:57:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13799 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:16:02 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA27378 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:15:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx6-04.ix.netcom.com(207.94.122.68) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma026995; Mon Sep 28 13:13:13 1998 Message-ID: <360E827C.10B3@utdallas.edu> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:22:52 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] How to hit clippers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Believe it or not, even with that huge ass response, I forgot the most basic way to hit clippers. Watch them being hit. In other words, go to a tournament - Texas State is coming up in a couple of weeks. Or, if you are all alone with no footbaggers around, get Tricks of the Trade. It is an awesome video with Kenny doing all of the basics. They have slow motion views, a few different camera angles, advice from the man himself, and demonstrations of good stretches to loosen up those ankles. Every up and coming player should own this tape. You can buy it from the WFA for about $15. Go to their web page http://www.worldfootbag.com and buy the tape. Get some Adidas Rod Lavers and a good facile bag while you are there. Equipment (flat shoes, soft bag) will make any move easier. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 19:58:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA03759 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:58:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13765 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:15:26 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld619.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.152.41]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA05818 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980928111225.006c7f4c@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:12:25 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Nice effort guys! You have successfully made something that was relatively >simple, into a completely impossible to understand, hodgepoge of concepts >overlapping into obscurity. Effectively making some moves worth more (that >don't deserve it) and others worth the same or less, that don't necessarily >need it. I have to find your hyperbole ("completely impossible to understand" [?!] ) a bit suspicious. But then again, you also claim to be incapable of understanding Job's notation... Please tell me honestly what doesn't make sense: 1. the paradox dex must be the first to occur (to score an add) 2. a bonus dex add is awarded for: A) every dex after the first, except in the case of "complementary" double-dex moves (two legs dexing in same direction). B) every spin/gyro in a dex move not awarded the above bonus >My first observation is: "Any system that keeps Paradox torque at 5 points >and puts Blurriest at 7 is flawed from the get-go". Certainly Blurriest >isn't that hard! I speak from experience, it may look hard, but it isn't >really that bad. Difficulty rating systems will always be flawed from the get-go (I'm just asking "which is *less* flawed?"). They will always be controversial (individual differences in the learning curve abound). But re. this particular detail: would most people agree that a blurriest rates more than a paradox torque? If so, then this isn't *too* terrible an error, yes? (in AR-2, mobius and flurry are 6...). Certainly not comparable to the current discrepancies between a butterfly and virtually any other 3-add move. Accustomed to the old system, "7" sounds super high, I know. But remember, most tricks that were once "7" are now probably even *higher*... I'm hearing you, Scott. You're not currently open to any changes in the add system (or even the judging system [?!] ). So I'm not expecting to "sell" this to you. Yet. First and foremost, I'm just *begging* you, the head of the IFAB Freestyle Committee, to *please* carefully and objectively review this idea before dismissing it wholesale, as you seem to have already done. with love and respect aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 22:46:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA22626 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:46:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Resent-From: reiddm@magma.ca Received: from homer.tomahawktech.com (cpu1550.adsl.bellglobal.com [206.47.27.31]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15463 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:19:32 -0700 Received: from pc0966.software.mitel.com (Administrators@localhost) by homer.tomahawktech.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA00253 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:20:52 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:20:51 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199809282020.QAA00253@homer.tomahawktech.com> From: "Dave Reid" To: Subject: RE: [freestyle] clipper stall.. Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:19:25 -0400 Message-ID: <000701bdeb1d$49919ae0$c136c786@pc0966.software.mitel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <360E7F7C.5247@utdallas.edu> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > -----Original Message----- > Did you expect a book as a response? Sometimes I get a little carried > away. It is very important that beginners are encouraged in this > sport. Once you get clippers, you will be hooked and it will be your You rock! Thanks from all us beginners. > turn to spread the word. Clippers are key in 80% of advanced freestyle > moves. If you can do both sides, you can hit many many more moves. If > you make an effort to do everything that I told you about, I promise > that you will hit clippers pretty regularly within a week or so. Just A week!??! Do I really suck that badly? :) I'll keep at it... For what it's worth, on one of the few clippers I've stuck, I set the bag and pulled off my first paradox mirage. Oh, what a feeling!!!!! Oh the things I'll do when I nail the clipper....... Dave PS. Greets to Aaron de G. from the "Ottawa contingent" - seeya in Chicago From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 22:57:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA22710 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:57:42 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15877 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:47:16 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0000201HTP6W@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:49:00 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] move name To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just started hitting a twirl from a dragon set and was wondering if it had a name. I thought dragon-twirl or twirling-dragon sounded... well just wrong. Can anyone enlighten me...SCOTT? Thanks, FREAKBOY P.S. anyone else hitting quadruple ATWs?????????? JUST KIDDING! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 22:57:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA22711 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:57:42 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from iuakk.fi (qmailr@lux2.iuakk.fi [194.89.13.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA15784 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:40:58 -0700 Received: (qmail 29383 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1998 20:40:45 -0000 Received: from x2-56k.ppp.34.iuakk.fi (HELO iuakk) (194.89.12.100) by lux2.iuakk.fi with SMTP; 28 Sep 1998 20:40:45 -0000 Message-ID: <002101bdeb21$019daa40$010000c4@iuakk.iuakk.fi> From: "pillar" To: "Freestyle" Subject: [freestyle] thanks! Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:45:42 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org thanks for all those good advices you all gave to me. I am sure that i'll learn to do clippers. When it happens i'll let you all know that. Once more Thanks! -Juha From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 22:59:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA22739 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:59:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15625 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:33:22 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0000N01H6GYW@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:35:04 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] tripples tripples tripples In-reply-to: To: JEREMY JOSEPH NEVIN Cc: freestyle Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, JEREMY JOSEPH NEVIN wrote: > So Brad....what are we going to do stop at doubles?? We'll maybe you are. > Maybe your knees are messed up. I have been training with ankle weights > for almost 6 years now since I hit my first double. I have skied over 800 > days in this period. I just hiked Mt. Shasta last weekend. I hit a few > tripples this morning and you know what????....My knees are stronger than > ever. The ankle weights are a way to strengthen your legs in general. I > have not used ankle weights for over a year now. It is only a temporary > exercise that will benefit you greatly. > > So Brad my advice to you is..... Get out of your rocking chair and live > life. Freak. I feel I must apologize to Jeremy for what I wrote about his triples exercises. Having had problems with my own knees and thinking this excercise would cause more damage, I had posted my message as a warning to be careful. While it was cynical, I did not intend for it to degrade into Jeremy calling me names. So here is my apology to Jeremy: When you are old and still feeling healthy Try not to scold and make thyself wealthy While I rock in my chair and you play with games I'll lose my hair but not call you names So hack on my friend and don't you be sorry With your means to an end you must need not worry I have to say only as advice you might seek Shred longly and strongly signed, Your friend the FREAK From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 22:59:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA22748 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:59:07 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15506 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:25:33 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA13115 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:25:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" Message-Id: <000000120492989859083@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:24:43 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, Sep 28, 1998, 1:12:25 PM US CDT Aaron de Glanville wrote: >>overlapping into obscurity. Effectively making some moves worth more (that >>don't deserve it) and others worth the same or less, that don't necessarily >>need it. > >I have to find your hyperbole ("completely impossible to understand" [?!] ) >a bit suspicious. But then again, you also claim to be incapable of While I don't think highly of Aaron's AR-2 specific outcomes, I do think that inflating the overall worth of moves could be very beneficial. It allows for more differentiation between moves. (To me, AR2 sounds way too focused on dexterity, and disregards overall body movement, which I would certainly emphasize if I were writing the system - like an extra point for really high fliers!) About "Uniqueness": Who ever said our current system is the magical gold standard for move uniqueness? In the current system, a paradox mirage landing on a toe is a different move than a paradox mirage landing on an inside, yet a da da curve is exactly the same as a ripwalk. That's just one example. I've always said any TRUE measure of uniqueness for footbag movements needs to consider both the set and any foot plants involved. Again, the naming of the moves, to me, is the most sensitive identifier of unique moves. Using whatever system you want, you could assign values (whole numbers only please!) to them. Everything I've seen in arguing about adds and move values is trying to arrive at the end result which I say should be the bottom line anyway: A move "THIS" equals a value of "THAT". Simple. Don't forget this fossil is still on the freestyle committee, too. ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle - the "Computer Guy" Missouri Lions Eye Research Foundation Heartland Lions Eye Banks dfogle@mlerf.org - www.mlerf.org From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Sep 28 23:25:22 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA31380 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:25:22 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19603 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:57:41 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA02175; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:57:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx6-04.ix.netcom.com(207.94.122.68) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma002104; Mon Sep 28 17:56:18 1998 Message-ID: <360EC4E2.24E8@utdallas.edu> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 18:06:10 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aaron de Glanville CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" References: <3.0.1.32.19980928111225.006c7f4c@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org About Aaron's new scoring method and Scott's desire to stick with the old system... First, adds are good in freestyle circles only to promote the idea of guiltless play. If you string together only three add moves or higher, you are doing good. Beyond that, adds don't mean jack - in a circle. Everyone will agree that the current add system isn't great as far as determining the difficulty of a move. This ONLY matters during competitions. To be a bit more specific, it only matters during either Western Regionals or Worlds. As far as I know, there are no other tournaments that even count adds. So, a move's difficulty gets a number stuck on it twice a year. Taking this into consideration, it doesn't seem to matter if everyone understands the scoring as long as the person actually counting adds knows what he or she is doing. So, if Scott D. (the head of the freestyle committe of IFAB) doesn't want to concern himself with learning an accurate way to count adds, that is fine. He shouldn't be in charge of counting adds. Praise be to Aaron for outlining a way to come one step closer in determining a move's difficulty. I like the idea of paradox only counting if it is the first dex. Paradox legbeater, paradox torque, voodoo, and even paradox whirl are - in my opinion - harder than blur. (Blizzard is another matter, but hey, you can't have everything). The deal with a double dex move that involves both legs going over in the same direction is another good point. Ripwalk and double legover are easier than many other double dex moves. Here are some concerns though: Blurriest is not that much harder than paradox torque. I can't hit either, but I've seen many more people play into and out of blurriest than pdx torque. What exactly is meant by B) every spin/gyro in a dex move not awarded the above bonus ? I have always felt that in-spinning should be awarded something more than gyro. And, I think that paradox might be able to be included in some spins (ex. a spinning mirage as opposed to a gyro mirage). No one system is going to be perfect. I for one agree that Aaron's proposed system is much more accurate than the current add system. Not to offend anyone - I have only love for all of the players who have driven themselves to be the best - but it seems odd to me that the main opponent to any new system is the guy that should be leading the change. The head of IFAB's freestyle committe should, in my opinion, be offering solutions to the current judging problems - not the least of which are the player's inability to use Job's notation. That notation is without a doubt the most clear and effective notation available for defining moves. If only it was a bit more clear on spins and plants... That is a different mattter though, and I am getting tired of typing. Kick on everyone, and pray that you never have to count adds in a tournament where they matter. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 01:11:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA32759 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:11:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (mail.callplus.co.nz [202.27.103.146]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20486 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:02:37 -0700 Received: by INETSRV with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:01:14 +1200 Message-ID: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C1E4762@INETSRV> From: Adrian Dick To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Simple Add System Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:01:12 +1200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I was just thinking about all these new solutions to the Add system. People want to get rid of the system, others want to make it more accurate for the harder tricks. What if we just called all tricks greater than 3 adds "3+". That way we can still aim for Guiltless, and have a higher level above that. 1, 2, 3, 3+ adds. Tripless would be only "3+" add moves That pretty much takes into account all the hein, and its a solid system, coz most low add moves are undisputable... Just a thought ! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 01:28:02 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA00077 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:28:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pilot010.cl.msu.edu (pilot010.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.110]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20636 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:14:49 -0700 Received: (from kenned57@localhost) by pilot010.cl.msu.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id UAA36194 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:14:46 -0400 Message-Id: <199809290014.UAA36194@pilot010.cl.msu.edu> Subject: [freestyle] Adds stuff To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:14:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Cameron Dean Kennedy" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hello freestylers, I guess i don't see any problems with the add system , so far as i can tell every 3 add move has one more component to it than all of the two add moves, and yet one less than the four add moves. A simplicity i rather like. Sometimes a higher add is an easier move, usually not. Who cares. I guess i have been approaching this sport all wrong. I never really thought of adds as a measure of difficulty, but just a way to know how many components there are to a move. I assumed i would know if a move was difficult or not. But, if people are having trouble telling if the moves they are hitting are difficult, then we need to develope a new system. We could all carry around diving score cards, and flip scores for each move as they are done. and then average them to get the difficulty for a move. This has the added advantage that the shredder gets a huge break in between moves, and can keep a running total of how cool they are. That is after all why we need a new system, right? Because people hitting atom smashers are getting the same adds as the guy hitting butterfly, and they feel like they are getting ripped off ? Ripped off where, two events a year? And for what 85-90% of your score ? One would certainly think so. cameron kennedy From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 01:52:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA08594 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:52:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from firewall.telecom.co.nz (ingate.telecom.co.nz [146.171.254.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA21006 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:51:22 -0700 Received: by firewall.telecom.co.nz (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI.AUTO) for id MAA16704; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:51:47 +1200 Received: from ish.telecom.co.nz(146.171.1.1) by firewall.telecom.co.nz via smap (V2.1) id xma016661; Tue, 29 Sep 98 12:51:32 +1200 Received: from telecom.co.nz ([146.171.53.205]) by ish.telecom.co.nz (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA15156 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:46:56 +1200 Received: from DOM#u#AKGATE-Message_Server by telecom.co.nz with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:50:46 +1200 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:51:38 +1200 From: Stuart MacFerson To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Difficulty Ratings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Devising an adds system seems all too difficult. Maybe we should go back to considering a system whereby each move is given a difficulty rating by a selected group or even a survey of players. Someone would be appointed to field new move proposals. Then annually (say at Worlds - IFAB meeting) the difficulty ratings can be revised and new moves added. I assume a similar system is used in diving or gymnastics because they somehow compose a difficulty rating for a particular dive/vault/jump whatever. At least this way we can produce the most accurate difficulty ratings. There will be disagreements depending on the individual because some people are naturally going to be better at some moves. Just as long as we avoid obvious flaws like butterfly and atom smasher. To ensure the best guy wins at the end of the day does not really require adds (Worlds is the only comp using adds?). However, adds (or some difficulty rating) does help the limits of the sport to be pushed. Well I'm off to shred.....where's my lavers and radians counting suit? :) Stuart From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 02:44:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA25687 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 02:44:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA21692 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:43:32 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld6vl.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.155.245]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA06267 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980928184032.006caa48@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:40:32 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" In-Reply-To: <360EC4E2.24E8@utdallas.edu> References: <3.0.1.32.19980928111225.006c7f4c@pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wow, thanks, Derrick! >About Aaron's new scoring method and Scott's desire to stick with the >old system... >Everyone will agree that the current add system isn't great as far as >determining the difficulty of a move. This ONLY matters during >competitions. To be a bit more specific, it only matters during either >Western Regionals or Worlds. A good point, although many (most?) still view the add system as a difficulty-rating system--understandably. > As far as I know, there are no other >tournaments that even count adds. So, a move's difficulty gets a number >stuck on it twice a year. Taking this into consideration, it doesn't >seem to matter if everyone understands the scoring as long as the person >actually counting adds knows what he or she is doing. So, if Scott D. >(the head of the freestyle committe of IFAB) doesn't want to concern >himself with learning an accurate way to count adds, that is fine. He >shouldn't be in charge of counting adds. :) ...but if it were only that simple. If there's one person who should at least *try* to understand a new scoring proposal, it's the IFAB freestyle chair. I am frankly a bit baffled by SD's frank refusal to even attempt to understand it, let alone seriously consider it. But as with all else, I hope the matter ultimately rests in the players' hands. I'm convinced that any fair review of AR-2 will demonstrate it to be significantly more accurate and negligibly more complicated than the current add system. Whether this is borne out or not by popular opinion is less important to me than simply receiving this fair review for its own sake. >Blurriest is not that much harder than paradox torque. I can't hit >either, but I've seen many more people play into and out of blurriest >than pdx torque. A good point, raising another complicating criteria in determining an individual move's difficulty: how easy is the move in itself vs. how easy to link in or out of? > it seems odd to me that the main >opponent to any new system is the guy that should be leading the >change. The head of IFAB's freestyle committe should, in my opinion, be >offering solutions to the current judging problems I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds our head freestyle representative curiously unreceptive to innovation. It's in direct conflict with his constituency, the many players with dissatisfactions with the judging system. More later aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 03:04:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA32211 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 03:04:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail.cgocable.net (mail.cgocable.net [24.226.1.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22321 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:36:44 -0700 Received: from zacho (cgowave-35-161.cgocable.net [24.226.35.161]) by mail.cgocable.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id WAA11716 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:36:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980928223502.007a9cb0@cgocable.net> X-Sender: zacho@cgocable.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:35:02 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Gimpy Subject: Re: [freestyle] Adds stuff In-Reply-To: <199809290014.UAA36194@pilot010.cl.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org See? That guy's got it all down. We could all learn somethin' from him. At 08:14 PM 28/09/98 -0400, Cameron Dean Kennedy wrote: >hello freestylers, > >I guess i don't see any problems with the add system , so far as i can tell >every 3 add move has one more component to it than all of the two add moves, >and yet one less than the four add moves. A simplicity i rather like. Sometimes >a higher add is an easier move, usually not. Who cares. I guess i have >been approaching this sport all wrong. I never really thought of adds as a >measure of difficulty, but just a way to know how many components there are to >a move. I assumed i would know if a move was difficult or not. > > But, if people are having trouble telling if the moves they are hitting are >difficult, then we need to develope a new system. We could all carry around >diving score cards, and flip scores for each move as they are done. and then >average them to get the difficulty for a move. This has the added advantage >that the shredder gets a huge break in between moves, and can keep a running >total of how cool they are. That is after all why we need a new system, >right? Because people hitting atom smashers are getting the same adds as the >guy hitting butterfly, and they feel like they are getting ripped off ? Ripped >off where, two events a year? And for what 85-90% of your score ? One would >certainly think so. > > >cameron kennedy From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 07:19:55 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA04862 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:19:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from baygate.bayarea.net (root@baygate.bayarea.net [204.71.212.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA24872 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:50:25 -0700 Received: from gram (205-219-66-219.bayarea.net [205.219.66.219]) by baygate.bayarea.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA17710 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:50:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001401bdeb75$e3d61100$d842dbcd@gram> Reply-To: "Jboy" From: "Jboy" To: Subject: [freestyle] new system(again!) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:52:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDEB3B.1D914760" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDEB3B.1D914760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I almost couln't help myself, but I managed not to start talking to my = computer as I read the long list of messages tonight from the freestyle = list. First and foremost, I would like to tell the gentleman who wrote = the below that the reason it is "not that difficult" is that you are NOT = hitting symposium blur. You ARE hitting pogo paradox mirage, which = while it is the same number of adds, it is definitely a much easier move = (which would act as a perfect segue into my next comment, except that I = have more to say on this). Symposium blur would be: clip>op in dex>(no plant while) op in dex>op toe del while pogo paradox mirage would be: clip>(no plant while) op in dex>op in dex>op toe del >I can't hit syposium smear because it is too awkward but I can hit >symposium blur. The way I do it is by using a pogo set and then = planting >my (clipper) set foot and doing the symposium mirage. It is not that >difficult if you have a good pogo set and plant your mirage leg as soon = as >you finish the pogo. Anyway, props to Aaron D for proposing the first well thought out and = tested rivision that I've seen to the add system. However, I firmly = believe that we need a whole new concept for the rating system, seen as = how with every advancement in the "technology" of moves (paradox, gyro, = in-spin, symposium, etc.) we revise the system and make it more = complicated so that it will seem right for most moves. =20 My first idea is that we throw away dexes altogether and have a new way = of rating the circling of the footbag. What I propose is that we draw = an imaginary line paralell to the line of sight of the player (but = extending both ways), only lower (actually it would be connencted to the = bag). Tentatively I will call this the dex line. (1)Any time the player's leg crosses the dex line on the underneath side = of the bag, he/she is awarded a point. =20 (2)Anytime the player's leg crosses the dex line on the top side of the = bag, he/she is awarded two points. (3)one extra pont is awarded for each time a different leg crosses it = topside in the same move (excluding "complimentary dexes as described by = a.d.). (4)one extra point is awarded if the leg crosses topside while = spinning(torque, gyro mirage) (5)Any time the player's leg crosses the dex line while there is no = plant leg, he/she recieves a bonus point for symposium. A list of moves and their dex line ratings: (clipper)toe>op clip del =3D 2 (clipper)toe>same clip del =3D 3 (butterfly)toe>op out dex>op clip del =3D 4 (legover)toe>op out dex>same toe del =3D 3 (atw)toe>same in dex>same toe del =3D 3 (mirage)toe>op in dex>op toe del =3D 4 (double legover)toe>op in dex>op out dex>same toe del =3D 6 (paradon)toe>op out dex>same out dex>op clip del =3D 7 (toe blur)toe>op in dex>op in dex>op toe del =3D 8 (paradox mirage)clip>same in dex>op toe del =3D 5 (blur)clip>op in dex>op in dex>op toe del =3D 7 (torque)clip>op in dex>(front spin)>op clip del =3D 6 (gyro mirage)clip>(back spin)>same in dex>op toe del =3D 5 (gyro pdx mirage)clip>(back spin)>op in dex>op toe del =3D 6 (ripwalk) =3D 6 (blurriest) =3D 8 (pdx torque) =3D 7 (atom smasher) =3D 8 Any and all thought are welcome. Jboy, the Steve G prodigy gone wild. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDEB3B.1D914760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I almost couln't help myself, but I = managed not=20 to start talking to my computer as I read the long list of messages = tonight from=20 the freestyle list.  First and foremost, I would like to tell the = gentleman=20 who wrote the below that the reason it is "not that difficult" = is that=20 you are NOT hitting symposium blur.  You ARE hitting pogo paradox = mirage,=20 which while it is the same number of adds, it is definitely a much = easier move=20 (which would act as a perfect segue into my next comment, except that I = have=20 more to say on this).  Symposium blur would be:
 
clip>op in = dex>(no=20 plant while) op in dex>op toe del
 
while pogo paradox mirage would be:
 
clip>(no plant while) op in dex>op in = dex>op toe=20 del
 
>I can't hit syposium smear because it is too awkward but I can=20 hit
>symposium blur.  The way I do it is by using a pogo set = and then=20 planting
>my (clipper) set foot and doing the symposium = mirage.  It=20 is not that
>difficult if you have a good pogo set and plant your = mirage=20 leg as soon as
>you finish the pogo.
 
Anyway, props to Aaron D for proposing the first well thought out = and=20 tested rivision that I've seen to the add system.  However, I = firmly=20 believe that we need a whole new concept for the rating system, seen as = how with=20 every advancement in the "technology" of moves (paradox, gyro, = in-spin, symposium, etc.) we revise the system and make it more = complicated so=20 that it will seem right for most moves. 
 
My first idea is that we throw away dexes altogether and have a new = way of=20 rating the circling of the footbag.  What I propose is that  = we draw=20 an imaginary line paralell to the line of sight of the player (but = extending=20 both ways), only lower (actually it would be connencted to the = bag). =20 Tentatively I will call this the dex line.
 
(1)Any time the player's leg crosses the dex line on the underneath = side of=20 the bag, he/she is awarded a point. 
 
(2)Anytime the player's leg crosses the dex line on the top side of = the=20 bag, he/she is awarded two points.
 
(3)one extra pont is awarded for each time a different leg crosses = it=20 topside in the same move (excluding "complimentary dexes as = described by=20 a.d.).
 
(4)one extra point is awarded if the = leg crosses=20 topside while spinning(torque, gyro mirage)
 
(5)Any time the player's leg crosses the dex line while there is no = plant=20 leg, he/she recieves a bonus point for symposium.
 
 
 
A list of moves and their dex line=20 ratings:
 
(clipper)toe>op clip del =3D = 2
(clipper)toe>same clip del =3D = 3
(butterfly)toe>op out dex>op = clip del =3D=20 4
(legover)toe>op out dex>same toe del =3D = 3
(atw)toe>same in dex>same toe del =3D = 3
(mirage)toe>op in dex>op toe del =3D = 4
(double legover)toe>op in dex>op out = dex>same toe del=20 =3D 6
(paradon)toe>op out dex>same out dex>op = clip del =3D=20 7
(toe blur)toe>op in dex>op in dex>op toe = del =3D=20 8
(paradox mirage)clip>same in dex>op toe del = =3D=20 5
(blur)clip>op in dex>op in dex>op toe del = =3D=20 7
(torque)clip>op in dex>(front spin)>op clip = del =3D=20 6
(gyro mirage)clip>(back spin)>same in = dex>op toe del=20 =3D 5
(gyro pdx mirage)clip>(back spin)>op in = dex>op toe=20 del =3D 6
(ripwalk) =3D 6
(blurriest) =3D 8
(pdx torque) =3D 7
(atom smasher) =3D 8
 
Any and all thought are welcome.
 
Jboy, the Steve G prodigy gone=20 wild.
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDEB3B.1D914760-- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 15:43:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA18918 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:43:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA28692 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:38:56 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.104] (d104.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.104]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA24041; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:38:23 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1305042272==_ma============" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001401bdeb75$e3d61100$d842dbcd@gram> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:42:42 -0600 To: "Jboy" , From: Enlightener Subject: Re: [freestyle] new system(again!) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --============_-1305042272==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:52 PM -0700 9/28/98, Jboy wrote: >I almost couln't help myself, but I managed not to start talking to my >computer as I read the long list of messages tonight from the freestyle >list. First and foremost, I would like to tell the gentleman who wrote >the below that the reason it is "not that difficult" is that you are NOT >hitting symposium blur. You ARE hitting pogo paradox mirage, which while >it is the same number of adds, it is definitely a much easier move (which >would act as a perfect segue into my next comment, except that I have more >to say on this). Symposium blur would be: > Symposium blur is 5 adds, and pogo paradox mirage is 4. >My first idea is that we throw away dexes altogether and have a new way of >rating the circling of the footbag. What I propose is that we draw an >imaginary line paralell to the line of sight of the player (but extending >both ways), only lower (actually it would be connencted to the bag). >Tentatively I will call this the dex line. > >(1)Any time the player's leg crosses the dex line on the underneath side >of the bag, he/she is awarded a point. > >(2)Anytime the player's leg crosses the dex line on the top side of the >bag, he/she is awarded two points. > So does this make swirling dexterity worth half of a traditional "ATW" dex? > >A list of moves and their dex line ratings: > >(clipper)toe>op clip del = 2 >(clipper)toe>same clip del = 3 >(butterfly)toe>op out dex>op clip del = 4 >(legover)toe>op out dex>same toe del = 3 >(atw)toe>same in dex>same toe del = 3 >(mirage)toe>op in dex>op toe del = 4 >(double legover)toe>op in dex>op out dex>same toe del = 6 >(paradon)toe>op out dex>same out dex>op clip del = 7 >(toe blur)toe>op in dex>op in dex>op toe del = 8 >(paradox mirage)clip>same in dex>op toe del = 5 >(blur)clip>op in dex>op in dex>op toe del = 7 >(torque)clip>op in dex>(front spin)>op clip del = 6 >(gyro mirage)clip>(back spin)>same in dex>op toe del = 5 >(gyro pdx mirage)clip>(back spin)>op in dex>op toe del = 6 >(ripwalk) = 6 >(blurriest) = 8 >(pdx torque) = 7 >(atom smasher) = 8 You obviously haven't taken into account the swirl/reverse swirl motion into your dexterity concept. So how does that play in your mind? see ya! Scott D. Enlightener --============_-1305042272==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" At 11:52 PM -0700 9/28/98, Jboy wrote: I almost couln't help myself, but I managed not to start talking to my computer as I read the long list of messages tonight from the freestyle list. First and foremost, I would like to tell the gentleman who wrote the below that the reason it is "not that difficult" is that you are NOT hitting symposium blur. You ARE hitting pogo paradox mirage, which while it is the same number of adds, it is definitely a much easier move (which would act as a perfect segue into my next comment, except that I have more to say on this). Symposium blur would be: Symposium blur is 5 adds, and pogo paradox mirage is 4. My first idea is that we throw away dexes altogether and have a new way of rating the circling of the footbag. What I propose is that we draw an imaginary line paralell to the line of sight of the player (but extending both ways), only lower (actually it would be connencted to the bag). Tentatively I will call this the dex line. (1)Any time the player's leg crosses the dex line on the underneath side of the bag, he/she is awarded a point. (2)Anytime the player's leg crosses the dex line on the top side of the bag, he/she is awarded two points. So does this make swirling dexterity worth half of a traditional "ATW" dex? A list of moves and their dex line ratings: (clipper)toe>op clip del = 2 (clipper)toe>same clip del = 3 (butterfly)toe>op out dex>op clip del = 4 (legover)toe>op out dex>same toe del = 3 (atw)toe>same in dex>same toe del = 3 (mirage)toe>op in dex>op toe del = 4 (double legover)toe>op in dex>op out dex>same toe del = 6 (paradon)toe>op out dex>same out dex>op clip del = 7 (toe blur)toe>op in dex>op in dex>op toe del = 8 (paradox mirage)clip>same in dex>op toe del = 5 (blur)clip>op in dex>op in dex>op toe del = 7 (torque)clip>op in dex>(front spin)>op clip del = 6 (gyro mirage)clip>(back spin)>same in dex>op toe del = 5 (gyro pdx mirage)clip>(back spin)>op in dex>op toe del = 6 (ripwalk) = 6 (blurriest) = 8 (pdx torque) = 7 (atom smasher) = 8 You obviously haven't taken into account the swirl/reverse swirl motion into your dexterity concept. So how does that play in your mind? see ya! Scott D. Enlightener --============_-1305042272==_ma============-- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 15:43:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA18920 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:43:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send1c.yahoomail.com (send1c.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA29886 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:09:30 -0700 Message-ID: <19980916171657.10751.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Received: from [161.98.1.201] by send1c; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:16:57 PDT Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:16:57 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Choice of moves To: Lynton Stephens Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >toe to toe moves seem to be extremely rare in BAP strings. This is true, I think it is mainly attributed to the desire to LINK TOUGH MOVES. Let's face it, how many hard toe-to-toe moves are there, especially when you compare it to the # of x-body moves. Let's see... atomsmasher, enterage(toe flurry), toe barrage, double-switch, maybe a few more but not many. You will see, however, some BAPers link strings w/ these. ex. blur>atomsmasher>legbeater, blizzard>eggbeater>flux, bedwetter>smear>pixie butterfly, blur>enterage>paradon. These are all specific examples found on "Rye Shred", so they kind of popped to mind. < ezshredz@yahoo.com > > * Why do a smear or an atom smasher when pixie butterfly or legbeater > are just as easy (or arguably easier) and worth an extra add. Well this is definitely arguable. I could do smear well before I even dreamt of doing legbeater, and I still think it's easier. I will admit, though, that atom smasher is harder than pixie butterfly. But everyone knows that, so there's a big reason do them. And also, there's nothing wrong with stooping below the tripless realm to do a cool 3 add. Eli Piltz _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 15:43:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA18923 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:43:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f102.hotmail.com [207.82.250.221]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA29623 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:45:39 -0700 Received: (qmail 7369 invoked by uid 0); 29 Sep 1998 14:45:07 -0000 Message-ID: <19980929144507.7368.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.155 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:45:07 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.155] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org, jboy@bayarea.net Subject: [freestyle] symposium blur correction Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:45:07 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. JBoy said that whoever said symp blur wasn't difficult was hitting pogo paradox mirage. While he definitely isn't hitting symposium blur, it sounded more like Pogo PS mirage than pogo paradox mirage. Re-read his description, it sounds like he is doing a symposium after the pogo. Have a nice day KeN Somolinos NYFA >I almost couln't help myself, but I managed not to start talking to my = >computer as I read the long list of messages tonight from the freestyle = >list. First and foremost, I would like to tell the gentleman who wrote = >the below that the reason it is "not that difficult" is that you are NOT = >hitting symposium blur. You ARE hitting pogo paradox mirage, which = >while it is the same number of adds, it is definitely a much easier move = >(which would act as a perfect segue into my next comment, except that I = >have more to say on this). Symposium blur would be: > >clip>op in dex>(no plant while) op in dex>op toe del > >while pogo paradox mirage would be: > >clip>(no plant while) op in dex>op in dex>op toe del > >>I can't hit syposium smear because it is too awkward but I can hit >>symposium blur. The way I do it is by using a pogo set and then = >planting >>my (clipper) set foot and doing the symposium mirage. It is not that >>difficult if you have a good pogo set and plant your mirage leg as soon = >as >>you finish the pogo. > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 15:44:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA18952 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:44:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA28676 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:38:26 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.104] (d104.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.104]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA24001; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:38:14 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980928184032.006caa48@pop.mindspring.com> References: <360EC4E2.24E8@utdallas.edu> <3.0.1.32.19980928111225.006c7f4c@pop.mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:37:54 -0600 To: Aaron de Glanville , freestyle@footbag.org From: Enlightener Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! This came to me in a daze this morning... how about a 6th add category... called "Special"... we could move Paradox and Symposium's to be covered in it, and we could use it to create special "instances", with similar encompassing names that describe the inuendos of these subtle movements and apply add value to them. This would also solve the problem of the "Body" category being the dumping grounds of unusual movements and special instances. So when we recognize a "special instance" that can be quantified, like that present in an atom smasher, we could define it, name it and plunk it into the "Special" add category. Then any move that meets the definition of that new special instance would get that add. Anyway... >>So, if Scott D. >>(the head of the freestyle committe of IFAB) doesn't want to concern >>himself with learning an accurate way to count adds, that is fine. He >>shouldn't be in charge of counting adds. Are you kidding, Kenny, Rippin' and myself are pretty much the only ones who get called on to count adds, because we know how to do it. >I am frankly a bit baffled by SD's frank refusal to even attempt to >understand it, let alone seriously consider it. When something is being discussed and ironed out on the listserve, I am happy to look at it if I have time. Only when you submit a finished version to the IFAB freestyle committee, via me, do I feel it is my duty to completely understand it and look for flaws and to resubmit my concerns/elation about the concept. >>Blurriest is not that much harder than paradox torque. I can't hit >>either, but I've seen many more people play into and out of blurriest >>than pdx torque. > >A good point, raising another complicating criteria in determining an >individual move's difficulty: how easy is the move in itself vs. how easy >to link in or out of? Perhaps that could be a "Special" that is called "Linkability" or something, maybe not... >> it seems odd to me that the main >>opponent to any new system is the guy that should be leading the >>change. The head of IFAB's freestyle committe should, in my opinion, be >>offering solutions to the current judging problems Contrair, contrair. Like I said above, it is not my DUTY to scan the listserve for new ideas and to embrace them immediately. It is my responsibility to review proposals submitted to my committee, of which I have seen NONE! I participate on the listserve because I like it, and to keep abreast of what is being discussed. If anything, it is my *responsibility* to poke holes in new concepts so the holes can be filled and eventually can be submitted to our IFAB freestyle committee for review. >I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds our head freestyle representative >curiously unreceptive to innovation. It's in direct conflict with his >constituency, the many players with dissatisfactions with the judging system. I am extremely busy, Derrick knows... but he is about the only one. I am absolutely receptive to innovation. My definition of innovation in this scenario is simplicity, accuracy, fairness and ease of explanation. Also, only one person (not aaron), in the past 3 years has approached me directly and said they have a problem with the scoring system and they want to change it, and they have a proposal in the works that they want to submit. So please stop your public flogging of me, skool your proposal into something with no holes in it (which is what my criticism is about), and submit the damn thing to me directly and privately so I can forward it to the committee for review and private discussion. What we will do is basically poke holes in it and throw it back towards you to revise it again and for you to submit it again. Once we agree that it is something we want to do, then we wait for the IFAB meeting and propose it to the group for a vote. It doesn't just have to make the freestyle committee happy, it needs to make a 2/3 majority of the entire IFAB happy. It is quite a process, and when you are ready you can start it. Until then, happy typing. Use the listserve public forum to iron out the bugs, then formulate a final proposal, and submit it to me and I will forward it to the committee members in question. Oh, and don't forget to "shred on" brothers and sisters, I haven't forgotten... I hit a 25 contact tripless string on Sunday when Joe Marschall was in town, felt great! See ya! Scott Davidson enlightener@footbag.org IFAB Freestyle Committee Chair From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 16:15:17 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA27518 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:15:17 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA30575 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:52:07 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA18152 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:52:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" Message-Id: <000000122622989929080@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:51:20 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Sep 29, 1998, 9:37:54 AM US CDT Enlightener wrote: >and when you are ready you can start it. Until then, happy typing. Use >the listserve public forum to iron out the bugs, then formulate a final >proposal, and submit it to me and I will forward it to the committee Scott - There is absolutely no reason why the open freestyle forum can't be used to 'iron out the bugs' even with the committee. We're all here. Requiring everyone to submit some proposal to the 'secret society' smacks of needless bureaucracy and is sure to slow things down. If anyone is going to bother submitting to the committee, I think it should already be well read, understood, and debugged by those of us on the committee. Otherwise, it will never happen. I've been agitating for years for another add 'category' or two - suggesting "Window Problem" as one and possibly and "set opposition" as another. The existing dexterity definition can be modified aka the 'dexterity plane' suggestion. Damn I've wanted for so long to get some updates into the 'system' or scrap the system alltogether. Now that there are a group of young players that not only see some of the same problems I do but are willing to work on alternatives, I don't want to hide behind some mysterious curtain of IFAB Committee -dom. We should be here and available immediately. ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle the living freestyle fossil From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 16:42:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA03375 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:42:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from postal.interaccess.com (postal.interaccess.com [207.70.126.134]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA31003 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:19:39 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.104] (d104.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.104]) by postal.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA00320; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:19:26 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000000122622989929080@mlerf.org> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:10:30 -0600 To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF), freestyle@footbag.org From: Enlightener Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! >Scott - There is absolutely no reason why the open freestyle forum can't >be used to 'iron out the bugs' even with the committee. We're all here. >Requiring everyone to submit some proposal to the 'secret society' smacks >of needless bureaucracy and is sure to slow things down. If anyone is >going to bother submitting to the committee, I think it should already be >well read, understood, and debugged by those of us on the committee. >Otherwise, it will never happen. You are basically repeating what I said. >I've been agitating for years for another add 'category' or two - >suggesting "Window Problem" as one and possibly and "set opposition" as >another. The existing dexterity definition can be modified aka the >'dexterity plane' suggestion. Now that there is support in that direction, maybe we can run with it. >Damn I've wanted for so long to get some updates into the 'system' or >scrap the system alltogether. Now that there are a group of young players >that not only see some of the same problems I do but are willing to work >on alternatives, I don't want to hide behind some mysterious curtain of >IFAB Committee -dom. We should be here and available immediately. I'm not hiding behind anything, just stating due-process. I agree the open forum is great for debugging a flawed system, but then there needs to be a specific final proposal sent to the freestyle committee, because it is we who must convince the IFAB that it is a good thing. See ya! Scott. enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 16:55:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA03475 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:55:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA31175; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:36:42 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA12413; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:36:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcp91.atext.com(206.66.71.91) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma012355; Tue Sep 29 11:35:33 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <000000122622989929080@mlerf.org> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:35:37 -0700 To: Enlightener From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" Cc: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF), freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ...And everyone wonders why I always try to dissuade folks from arguing about difficulty systems on this list. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 17:07:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA11965 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:07:13 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA31248 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:40:24 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA29042 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:40:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" Message-Id: <000000122802989931979@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:39:39 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Sep 29, 1998, 12:10:30 PM US CDT Enlightener wrote: >>going to bother submitting to the committee, I think it should already be >>well read, understood, and debugged by those of us on the committee. >>Otherwise, it will never happen. > >You are basically repeating what I said. Good. >>on alternatives, I don't want to hide behind some mysterious curtain of >>IFAB Committee -dom. We should be here and available immediately. > >I'm not hiding behind anything, just stating due-process. I agree the open >forum is great for debugging a flawed system, but then there needs to be a Sorry I came down on you on this. But I honestly feel that we, as IFAB members and Freestyle Committee members for a sport as unique as footbag, don't have to mimic governmental bureaucracy just because we can. We should strive to be different instead. What I see is all of us - together - getting something hammered out that can then be proposed to the freestyle committee who can then take it to the rest of the board and say, "Hey look. Here's some structural changes that *ALOT* of freestylers, including the freestyle committee, have had input on and come to some concensus on." We can work it out openly now and almost everyone will feel better about it in the long run. Your initial position did sound very unreceptive to change. That's probably your "Oh rats I've got way to much stuff to contend with already and now this too" coping mechanism talking, and not how you feel deep down. I think you've clarified your position a bit now, and we'll ease up on you. But let me state, unequivocally, that I *DO* want change, whether or not anyone else does. ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle the living freestyle fossil - complete with teeth to bite you! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 17:11:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA11994 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:11:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA31333 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:50:06 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA00882 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:50:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" Message-Id: <000000122842989932561@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:49:21 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Sep 29, 1998, 11:35:37 AM US CDT Steve Goldberg wrote: >...And everyone wonders why I always try to dissuade folks from arguing >about difficulty systems on this list. I will be the first to voice my great disappointment about freestyle being reduced to a valuation of diffuculty. But like it or not, that is what freestyle has become to so many players - a banal comparison of difficulty. It is what you hear over and over and over on this list. It is a (to me) tragic reality. I think footbag needs to accomodate these difficulty machines as much as we can. Maybe someday they will grow, maybe not. But I don't see my mindset growing a new crop of players, so I guess I will support them as best I can. ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle - the "Computer Guy" Missouri Lions Eye Research Foundation Heartland Lions Eye Banks dfogle@mlerf.org - www.mlerf.org From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 18:13:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA29109 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:13:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel7.mindspring.com (camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA32257 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:52:12 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld6eg.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.153.208]) by camel7.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA20037 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980929104847.006cd09c@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:48:47 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" In-Reply-To: References: <000000122622989929080@mlerf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >...And everyone wonders why I always try to dissuade folks from arguing >about difficulty systems on this list. > > Steve Are you kidding? This is the first decent thread I've seen in *months*... :) aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 18:37:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA04990 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:37:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA32487 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:11:08 -0700 Received: from [206.66.71.91] (dhcp91 [206.66.71.91]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA15308; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:06:32 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980929104847.006cd09c@pop.mindspring.com> References: <000000122622989929080@mlerf.org> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:05:56 -0700 To: Aaron de Glanville From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:48 AM -0700 9/29/98, Aaron de Glanville wrote: >Are you kidding? This is the first decent thread I've seen in *months*... :) My point exactly; you think it's "decent". :-) I think it's obscene. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 19:27:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA14071 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:27:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00553 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:00:00 -0700 Received: from [206.66.71.91] (dhcp91 [206.66.71.91]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02997 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:58:50 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Reminder -- listserve policy (netiquette) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, folks. For the record, I have no problem at all with the fact that there's a lot of discussion right now on the freestyle list. That's the whole point of the list. My previous post (which was evidently misunderstood by a few) was just me kidding around -- please don't take me seriously when I post one-liners like that. However, I do what to take the opportunity in this message to remind everyone of certain guidelines that I established for this e-mail list long ago. Recently, as the volume of e-mail on the freestyle list has recently increased (raging debates will do that), I've seen a few minor violations of the policy, and have interrupted one or two posts that overtly violated the policy. The biggest issue is "personal attacks". I want everyone to be cognizant of the fact that this list is a very public discussion (there are almost 300 members on the freestyle list), and when you post, it's as if you're walking up to a podium in a room full of freestylers and making a statement. Please be careful not to insult, berate, or otherwise personally attack other members of the list in public. (But feel free to do so in private!) You may be emotional, and you may feel someone is either missing your point or has a long-standing problem (in your opinion) that is coming to light in the discussion. Well, it's okay to try to point these things out, but please do so in an uncondescending, non-combattive way if at all possible. If not possible, please keep your comments private. Only use "reply to all" when you are sure you are not violating a listserve policy. Overt violations of the policy (especially after this reminder) can result in you being banned from the list. Other policies include: - please don't include the entire message to which you're replying when you post a follow-up; please just copy the specific lines you're replying to, and quote them with the > symbol at the beginning of each line of the message to which you're replying; nobody wants to read the whole message over and over again; - please don't ask questions that could be better asked in private to the poster, or by going to the on-line resource at http://www.footbag.org/ - please don't post to the list asking to be taken off it -- instead, use the fully automated service at http://list.footbag.org/ - if you just joined, please don't ask basic questions or ask for reposts of recent messages -- instead, go to http://www.footbag.org/faq/ or see http://list.footbag.org/ to view any previous postings to this or any other footbag list - when in doubt, write the list administrator (me) with any questions; but try to answer your questions by looking on the website first. Thanks for listening. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 19:28:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA14099 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:28:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel7.mindspring.com (camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00649 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:02:54 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld6v0.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.155.224]) by camel7.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA21140 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:02:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980929115929.006cf764@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:59:29 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: [freestyle] J-Boy's "dex-line" system and the 1st amendment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Definitely impressive at first glance, J., especially the final ratings, which are after all what matters. I'll repost after a careful review. At least two contingents seem to be sounding off: 1) discussions about adds, the add system, and new systems in general are interesting, worthwhile, and appropriate material for this forum 2) such discussions are tedious, non-productive, and even stressful The beautiful and harmonizing factor is that both voices are allowed to be heard. There have been other topics that have "annoyed" people in the past (e.g. "newbie" questions), and I want to take the space here to thank all those who have stood up for the list, and said in effect "if it's freestyle related [and unanswered elsewhere], this is the place to discuss it. If it bugs you, hit delete". Amen, and thanks again aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 21:23:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA15638 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:23:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mcfs.whowhere.com (mcfs.whowhere.com [209.1.236.44]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA02038 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:24:13 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by theglobe.com; Tue Sep 29 13:16:16 1998 To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:16:16 -0700 From: "Ian Dubman" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: [freestyle] Just for S and G... & Ozark touch-up X-Sender-Ip: 128.206.120.81 Organization: E-Mail @ The Globe (http://www.globe-mail.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org S'up Freestylers, SOME BRAIN FOOD. For all the guys out there with new ideas, good job--great job, actually. Innovation is never bad, and I will embrace change with an open mind. Point: When moves are discussed, most people keep naming specific moves in a one to one comparison of level of ease(or difficulty). This, for the most part, is matter of opinion--is it not?? I am not saying that a butterfly is anywhere near the same level of difficulty as a paradox torque, or anything ridiculous like that. But, when we discuss the level of the difficulty we should also keep in mind we all have unique bodies--and everyone's works differently. I happen to freestyle in a circle quite regularly with a certain "Fossil" who can crank out a paradox torque (with a good deal of ease, at least in my book), but I don't think he can hit blurriest(at least not that I have seen). Whereas someone earlier said that the P. Torque was just tons more difficult than Blurriest--not for everyone apparently. As for my opinon, I think paradox blender is easier than both, like I said earlier though--it is MY opinion. I don't really care what the add value is, thus the pres! ! ! ! ! ! ent system works fine for me. I know what moves I think are phat, and I will continue to skool them regardless of the increase or decrease in their add value. Just a thought to chew on. Ozark touch-up: pro-freestyle: 3rd was Corey(Chicago). am-freestyle: 2nd was Romi(Springfield?); 3rd was Tim(KC) *I was doing good to remember this, don't even ask for last names. (It isn't JUST the age "D"--mine is slipping also, hehe.) **CONGRATS TO MY BOYS FROM COLUMBIA** 1st, 2nd in pro- freestyle: Derrick Fogle and Leonard Griswell Ian D. MUFF of Columbia, MO "Free web-based email available now at http://www.theglobe.com" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 21:24:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA15665 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:24:42 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Pro2222@aol.com Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02271 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:33:01 -0700 Received: from Pro2222@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id OTEGa02341 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:28:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:28:17 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i suck and everything, but since i hear all the gripes about the system, i figure, why are clip stalls 2 adds? in some situations it makes the trick easier. after all, if you spin to pdox dex's, then clip stall, doesn't that make a high scoring move that's (according to anyone else other than me) relatively easy move? i couldn't do it, but from what i hear, a move like a (sorry bout the not.) [clip > op out dex > (back?) spin (1/2?) > same clip] be easier than if done to the op. toe? sorry bout this, kinda dumb comment about an obvious thing from a kid who can't kick well, but i think the add system needs to be abandoned. i think moves should be put into catagories. and the kicker scored on things without the ice-skating ness to it. (i.e. how well they link, spins, dexs, combos, etc. and be scored like by five in each. easier for everyone, esp. spectators.) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 21:54:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA24303 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:54:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03509 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:26:13 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA11414 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:25:40 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" Message-Id: <000000123942989949095@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:24:55 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Sep 29, 1998, 3:28:17 PM US CDT Pro2222@aol.com wrote: >figure, why are clip stalls 2 adds? in some situations it makes the trick >easier. after all, if you spin to pdox dex's, then clip stall, doesn't that If you were going to (blasphemy!) consider the set, a stall set is far easier than a kick set for most higher-add level moves. Stick that in your add pipe and smoke it. ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle with a concrete mind - all mixed up and set in place! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Sep 29 22:25:08 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA00054 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:25:08 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f189.hotmail.com [207.82.251.78]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA04035 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:02:07 -0700 Received: (qmail 5812 invoked by uid 0); 29 Sep 1998 22:01:35 -0000 Message-ID: <19980929220135.5811.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.209.197.228 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:01:35 PDT X-Originating-IP: [204.209.197.228] From: "matt dick" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] around the world Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:01:35 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Can anyone give me any pointers on how to do around the worlds or dexterities. I have watched little mpeg's of ahren german and he can pull off like three spins of his foot around the bag- i cant even get one could someone please help? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 30 06:22:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA05561 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 06:22:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA06503 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:03:26 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id VAA25610; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:09:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] around the world In-Reply-To: <19980929220135.5811.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Can anyone give me any pointers on how to do around the worlds or > dexterities. Set straight up Mind your balance- stay over the bag point your toe ( or at least relax your ankle ) And giggle becuase even though it's hard work, it's the most fun you ever had. Do it until you can't do it any more. > I have watched little mpeg's of ahren german and he can > pull off like three spins of his foot around the bag Well, at the point in your life when you started thinking about cool sneakers and looking up dresses, Ahren was learning around the worlds. He was probably interested in looking up dresses at the same time, too. As a result he's really really good. One of the mightiest. In fact when next I see him I will call him that. Whatever happened to the mighty mighty Mike Niday? To return to the point, by the time you've done as many as him you might be that good too. But in order not to hurt Ahren's feelings, you'll forgive me by saying I don't think so. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 30 06:22:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA05580 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 06:22:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04848 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:44:26 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA10651; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:44:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx43-49.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.177) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma010601; Tue Sep 29 17:43:37 1998 Message-ID: <36101286.9D9@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:49:42 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: matt dick CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] around the world References: <19980929220135.5811.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org matt dick wrote: > > Can anyone give me any pointers on how to do around the worlds or > dexterities. Yep. Go slower than you think. Try doing this: hold the bag in your right hand about waist high. Raise your right knee up and to the inside of the bag. Drop the bag. As the bag is falling, bring your foot around the front of the bag and complete the move by catching it on a toe delay. Repeat. Practice practice practice. You'll see that it really isn't that hard to do this after a few minutes of practice. Remember though... every time you practice something on your right side, do it again on the left side. BOTH SIDES!!!! That is the most important thing. I know many a freestyler who can hit some really good stuff on one side of their body, but can't even do simple around the worlds on the weak side. Don't be one of those people. After you can do the around the world setting it from your hand, try setting it from your toe. Just set the bag up about waist high. Bring your knee up beside the bag. And then circle it on your way back down to the delay. Think of the move like a set, pause, and then a dexterity. Not a set and a dex all at once. Patience and practice will get you there. That and a little video called Tricks of the Trade. That video is a MUST for any beginner that wants to learn how to kick. Now that you can hit around the worlds, try setting them from your other toe or from clipper. Those are called legovers and they are also key in many later moves. Try to get around the worlds both ways on both feet. Then, legovers both ways from both feet and both clippers. Instantly, with one move, you can hit, what?, 16 variations. Now you are cool and people want to kick with you. That is how it all starts. Next thing you know, you'll be writing long winded responses to people on the internet. Is this a great sport or what? Kick on. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 30 06:22:46 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA05593 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 06:22:46 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from m27.boston.juno.com (m27.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.186]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08836 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:43:26 -0700 Received: (from neilbp@juno.com) by m27.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DQC6W3PG; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:45:51 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] videos and rebels Message-ID: <19980929.210616.8215.2.neilbp@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,4,10-11,15-18 From: neilbp@juno.com (Neil B Payne) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:45:51 EDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Stylers, Just a quick note to say hello and a shout out to Eli for his video, 'Rye Shred'. I purchased the video at Funtastik a few weeks back and I have been thoroughly enjoying it since then. Now I just need to take that inspiration and practice more... Aside from all of the amazing threads of moves that I still have a hard time identifying (many tripless combos), I was happy to finally see a female featured on a shred video. ~A nice combo by world champ Carol "She-Blade" Wedemeyer. My ex-girlfriend used to always ask, "Don't women play this game?...then why aren't they represented?" I definitely agree with her. Anyway, real nice video Eli, thanks for putting it together. I hope to see a few of you this weekend in College Park for the Rebel Alliance Footbag tourney. Josh Penney will be coming to town, Vince Bradley and Peter Irish are in town as will be stylers from VA, MD and DC. Take care, Neil, err...Lando, Payne Washington DC ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 30 06:22:56 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA05606 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 06:22:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA08978; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:03:17 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id PSRIa22057; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <25296b4a.3611b855@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:49:25 EDT To: ezshredz@yahoo.com, s9709652@jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.EDU.AU Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle] Choice of moves Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 9/29/98 7:28:20 AM, ezshredz@yahoo.com wrote: <atomsmasher>legbeater, blizzard>eggbeater>flux, bedwetter>smear>pixie butterfly, blur>enterage>paradon.>> THats gotta be Daryl.... God bless shred heads! ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 30 08:09:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id IAA06787 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:09:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from ucs.orst.edu (mccombsa@UCS.ORST.EDU [128.193.4.5]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA11683 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:45:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (mccombsa@localhost) by ucs.orst.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA26577; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:45:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Avery Mc Combs To: Jboy cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] new system(again!) In-Reply-To: <001401bdeb75$e3d61100$d842dbcd@gram> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Jboy wrote: > I would like to tell the gentleman who wrote the below that the reason it is > "not that difficult" is that you are NOT hitting symposium blur. You > ARE hitting pogo paradox mirage. I guess you are correct about me not hitting symposium blur, but I am also not doing pogo paradox mirage. As far as I know there is no real distinction between blur and pogo paradox mirage. I think it was Eli who correctly identified the move I have been doing as pogo PS mirage. Thanks for clearing that up Eli. I guess I shouldn't have said it is not that difficult, because, in fact, it is difficult (at least for me). However, if you get a good set and don't get confused the move goes pretty smoothly. Sorry for pretending I can hang with the insane shredders that use this list. -Avery "the blond afro" McCombs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 30 08:28:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id IAA06869 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:28:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA11954 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 01:08:48 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA07424; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 03:08:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcptest66.atext.com(206.66.71.225) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma007414; Wed Sep 30 03:07:34 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <001401bdeb75$e3d61100$d842dbcd@gram> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 01:07:35 -0700 To: Avery Mc Combs From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] new system(again!) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:45 AM -0700 9/30/98, Avery Mc Combs wrote: >As far as I know there is no real >distinction between blur and pogo paradox mirage. As with many moves, the add categories/counts may not be different, but that doesn't mean they're the same move. The distinction between Blur and Pogo Paradox Mirage is in the plant -- in Blur, you plant your setting leg immediately after the set. This requires a little faster timing. For Pogo Paradox Mirage, you don't plant your setting foot until after the second dexterity. Note this distinction is important. It's similar to (but different from) the distinction between Ripwalk and Dada Curve. They're basically the same move, but in Ripwalk, you have to replant after each dexterity (for a total of 3 plants after set). In Dada Curve, you only plant twice -- once just after the set, and another time at the delay. The same legs go over the bag in the same places, but how you do the move is completely different; it's undoubtedly a different move. Same with pogo paradox-mirage versus blur. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 30 14:21:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA10678 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:21:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f eceived: from send1c.yahoomail.com (send1c.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA13570 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 05:35:11 -0700 Message-ID: <19980919170852.6451.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.196.248] by send1c; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:08:52 PDT Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:08:52 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #463 To: Aaron de Glanville Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I would be very interested to know other list member's votes for "the > epitomal freestyle routine, the best routine ever". I'm not going to choose an individual routine, but I will say that anyone who missed Funtastik this year, missed the best singles competition ever (my opinion). In order, Carol Wedemeyer-dropless, Greg Nelson-dropless, Peter Irish-dropless, Eric Wulff- 1 drop in 1st 10 sec.(on a mobius). All were difficult routines, which made judging incredibly difficult. We all (judges) wanted to see it on video before we made any final decision. But, of course, NO ONE taped any of it- of all the competitions not to record! For those who witnessed the event, it shall never be forgotten. > replay to the point of tape wear? Worlds '97 semifinals: The Regulator. Did you happen to notice that Ryan didn't/doesn't use a single clipper on his left side (except for his tripless runs) in competition? This counts a lot in my book- but maybe it shouldn't. No offense to Ryan, it's just hard not to notice something like that. He definitely has style though. Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 30 18:36:50 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA03347 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:36:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA14628 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:17:54 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld6sn.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.155.151]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA26477 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:17:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980930081450.006d4c84@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:14:50 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville In-Reply-To: References: <001401bdeb75$e3d61100$d842dbcd@gram> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > As far as I know there is no real >distinction between blur and pogo paradox mirage. I *think* the difference is that a blur has a plant. >Sorry for pretending I can hang with the insane shredders that >use this list. > > -Avery "the blond afro" McCombs For those of you who haven't seen Avery, he is an insane shredder... aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 30 18:36:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA03320 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:36:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f37.hotmail.com [207.82.250.48]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA15669 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:41:09 -0700 Received: (qmail 10430 invoked by uid 0); 30 Sep 1998 16:40:36 -0000 Message-ID: <19980930164036.10429.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.209.197.56 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:40:36 PDT X-Originating-IP: [204.209.197.56] From: "matt dick" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Flying Clippers Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:40:36 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well, i'm starting to get the hang of around the worlds (thanx Derric) but now i'm having extreme difficulty in hitting my flying clpper and clipper stall. I am not quite sure what the problem is, my friend hits them every time and he tries to tell me but it never works. somebody please help! matt ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 30 18:36:50 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA03345 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:36:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA14907 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:41:56 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld6sn.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.155.151]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA14084 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980930083854.006d40b8@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:38:54 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #463 In-Reply-To: <19980919170852.6451.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >> I would be very interested to know other list member's votes for "the >> epitomal freestyle routine, the best routine ever". > In order, Carol Wedemeyer-dropless, >Greg Nelson-dropless, Peter Irish-dropless, Eric Wulff- 1 drop in 1st >10 sec.(on a mobius). All were difficult routines, which made judging >incredibly difficult. We all (judges) wanted to see it on video >before we made any final decision. But, of course, NO ONE taped any of >it- of all the competitions not to record! I'm glad this is being said; I'm personally very much in favor of using videotape as a judging aid. >Did you happen to notice that Ryan didn't/doesn't use a single clipper >on his left side (except for his tripless runs) in competition? This >counts a lot in my book- but maybe it shouldn't. He did a huge travelling infinity string in semis '97... I think it matters, but I consider the overall effect of a routine to be the most important thing. I can think of other dropless (*and* well-choreographed) routines that clearly demonstrated better symmetry, but Ryan's "SEXXY" routine in '97 (difficulty and droplessness aside) held hardly a superfluous move--perhaps the aspect that impressed me the most. Compare to his (still-amazing) '98 routine: even if it had been dropless, there was plenty of add-pushing *filler* (I know I'm going to catch hell for this). The artistic aspect, for me, will always count more than any other dimension. free style aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 30 19:38:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA20444 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:38:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from adan.kingston.net (adan.kingston.net [205.189.48.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA18251 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:14:31 -0700 Received: from [205.210.52.87] (87-g1.kingston.net [205.210.52.87]) by adan.kingston.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA16155 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:14:26 -0400 Message-Id: <199809301914.PAA16155@adan.kingston.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:21:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [freestyle] around the world From: "Neil Bearse" To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Can anyone give me any pointers on how to do around the worlds or >dexterities. when i learned to do dexterities, i started just trying the motion in bare feet or socks, without a footbag. then i got the motion and the move down in socks, and then in shoes it seemed pretty damn easy. i found doing outside ins a lot easier when i learned. just remember not to 'tap' the ground between the set and the dex. i had that bad habit and it slowed my foot down A LOT. and also, once you get the motion down, the dex seems a lot slower and more in control than you would imagine. -dex'n'drumz'n'rock'n'roll From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Sep 30 19:38:19 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA20457 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:38:19 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17852 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:50:32 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA21719; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:50:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx7-02.ix.netcom.com(207.94.122.130) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma021701; Wed Sep 30 13:49:47 1998 Message-ID: <36112D52.46DD@utdallas.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:56:18 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: matt dick CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Flying Clippers References: <19980930164036.10429.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org matt dick wrote: > > now i'm having extreme difficulty in hitting my flying clpper and > clipper stall. These are two completely different moves. Any flying move is, in my opinion, much harder than a stall. I wrote a big ol thing about clipper stalls a couple of days ago. Rather than go into it again, I'll just direct you to the list archives where you can find every single post from the past few years. Just look for clipper and you'll get a lot of advice from a lot of different people. Just go to http://list.footbag.org and start digging through the archives. About the flying clipper... contact the bag just like you would for a kick. In other words, try to make the motion as smooth as possible. Contact is done while your foot is traveling up (as opposed to a stall where your foot is moving down) and around knee level. There are many people on this list that are better at flying moves than I am, so hopefully one of them can add to this advice. Personally, I like stalls better. They are easier to play into and out of. But, if you watch Eric Wulf for a few minutes, you will see just how cool it can be to throw in fliers in the middle of strings. Later. -D