From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 1 00:34:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA05238 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 00:34:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel7.mindspring.com (camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22800 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:40:00 -0700 Received: from smegma (user-38ld9c9.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.165.137]) by camel7.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA26148 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:39:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980930192452.007cf270@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: ecrvich@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:24:52 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] Flying Clippers In-Reply-To: <36112D52.46DD@utdallas.edu> References: <19980930164036.10429.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Eric Wulf for a few minutes, you will see just how cool it can be to >throw in fliers in the middle of strings. Later. I used to be a stall purist myself until I saw the Ironman. Nowadays I'll even happily guilt by throwing in a Dragonfly (my personal fave). A stalling move to a Dragonfly to another stalling move is visually very appealing (to me). Fliers have a risky, edgy, rebellious look to them (as opposed to the controlled finesse of most stalling moves), so one every now and then in a string is like...like...like dancing in a minefield. -- Ernest "Scratch" Crvich Durham, NC, USA http://www.mindspring.com/~ecrvich Have footbag, will shred From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 1 02:50:03 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA09343 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 02:50:03 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from postoffice2.direcpc.com (mail.direcpc.com [198.77.116.30]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23980 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:56:10 -0700 Received: from direcpc.com ([206.71.114.112]) by postoffice2.direcpc.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-45425U50000L50000S0) with ESMTP id AAA968 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:56:30 -0400 Message-ID: <35C1240C.3EFE2F5A@direcpc.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:55:25 -0500 From: Matt Avery Organization: 4th Dimension Interactive X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Blurry Sets Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------AB50F1E0CCBF2F651BD5EF32" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --------------AB50F1E0CCBF2F651BD5EF32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey shreddas! Right now, I've hit a few blurs to be exact, and I'm hitting ripwalks now in my strings. The only problem I am having is that sometimes when I set the bag, it will come up into my shorts when I bring my leg over. I'm sure the key is practice practice, but does anyone have some tips that could help me work on this one? Once I get the set down I know a huge window of moves will open up. I just put up a web page for "Avery Bags" at http://www.members.tripod.com/MattAvery/, so be sure you check it out! Shred Hard! Harder! Matt Avery --------------AB50F1E0CCBF2F651BD5EF32 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey shreddas!

Right now, I've hit a few blurs to be exact, and I'm hitting ripwalks
now in my strings. The only problem I am having is that sometimes when I
set the bag, it will come up into my shorts when I bring my leg over.
I'm sure the key is practice practice, but does anyone have some tips
that could help me work on this one? Once I get the set down I know a
huge window of moves will open up.

I just put up a web page for "Avery Bags" at  http://www.members.tripod.com/MattAvery/,
so be sure you check it out!

Shred Hard! Harder!
Matt Avery --------------AB50F1E0CCBF2F651BD5EF32-- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 1 03:38:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA26737 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 03:38:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f139.hotmail.com [207.82.251.18]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA25434 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:11:55 -0700 Received: (qmail 1697 invoked by uid 0); 1 Oct 1998 03:11:15 -0000 Message-ID: <19981001031115.1694.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.115.139.56 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:11:09 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.115.139.56] From: "matt dick" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Pendulum Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:11:09 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Could someone please explain to me how in the hell you do a Pendulum? Everyone says it is a really easy trick but every time i get half way through my swing the damned sack falls off. I have tried to keep my knee straight as long as possible but i still cant get the darn bag to come over my head HELP!!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 1 05:11:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA19781 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 05:11:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA26379 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:48:51 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id XAA20601; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:48:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:48:42 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Matt Avery cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Blurry Sets In-Reply-To: <35C1240C.3EFE2F5A@direcpc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org just where speedos ;) On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Matt Avery wrote: > Hey shreddas! > > Right now, I've hit a few blurs to be exact, and I'm hitting ripwalks > now in my strings. The only problem I am having is that sometimes when I > > set the bag, it will come up into my shorts when I bring my leg over. > I'm sure the key is practice practice, but does anyone have some tips > that could help me work on this one? Once I get the set down I know a > huge window of moves will open up. > > I just put up a web page for "Avery Bags" at > http://www.members.tripod.com/MattAvery/, > so be sure you check it out! > > Shred Hard! Harder! > Matt Avery > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 1 14:19:27 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA09775 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:19:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f79.hotmail.com [207.82.250.185]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA31265 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 06:25:18 -0700 Received: (qmail 25908 invoked by uid 0); 1 Oct 1998 13:24:47 -0000 Message-ID: <19981001132447.25907.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.130 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 01 Oct 1998 06:24:47 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.130] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] re post Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 06:24:47 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dare I risk it again, I have decided to repost my system, slightly cleaned up. I got good enough feed back before on how well it works to be encouraged, however before it is a really practicle replacement it neads to be simplified, but really I can`t think how. If anyone wants to work on this with me it would be greatly apreaciated, however even if anyone could just send some specific feed back, ie what if anything is confusing, not understandable, what could be better defined, or what could be grouped together, I could really use the help. Because at this point I need feed back, but don`t really want to start another discussion, please send replies (if any) to me directly. The System works on the same principle as Job`s notation, that moves can be basically described by there spins and dex, then (in my system) everything else just modifies the basic difficulty of the move. This is supposed to determine the relative difficulty of freestyle moves (for the average player) for the purposes of discussion. The difficulty to learn, play out of or into or styalistic differences of moves are not counted. 1. Dexteritys are broken into half or full. Anytime the dex leg doesn`t just pass over the bag as in butterfly and blur sets, a full dex is counted. Spins work on the same principle basically anything that is not an osis is a full spin. A half Spin(in or out) or Dexterity gets 1 A full dex(ducks are counted as full dex) or spin is 2 A full in-spin is 3. 2.Modifiers a. Strength moves: flying, Symposium and Planting moves ( when there is a plant before a dexterity, or after a dex before another element, then there is a point awarded). b. Restricted range of motion (rom). When there is a catch kick or dex by a leg in cliper position. When there is a full dex, set from a same clipper(paradox miraje). Or when the bag must travel in front of a leg, between elements(pixi cliper, drifter). c. Unusual surface. These are now broken in 2, out step, sole, pinch, head, knee, are worth 1, toe tip, heal, shin, ankle... are worth 2. If done after a dex they are all worth one more(blury pinch). -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 1 15:03:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA18386 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:03:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f242.hotmail.com [207.82.251.133]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA32198 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 07:34:54 -0700 Received: (qmail 1810 invoked by uid 0); 1 Oct 1998 14:34:22 -0000 Message-ID: <19981001143422.1809.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 198.189.236.112 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 01 Oct 1998 07:34:22 PDT X-Originating-IP: [198.189.236.112] From: "Ryan Sanders" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Blurry Sets Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 07:34:22 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > The only problem I am having is that sometimes when I > >set the bag, it will come up into my shorts when I bring my leg over. >I'm sure the key is practice practice, but does anyone have some tips >that could help me work on this one? Once I get the set down I know a >huge window of moves will open up. matt, I would not focus on lowering your set but try to jump and set in one motion with the bag traveling at the same height. The higher the better. just imagin if you had a chest high set what you could do. for example: you can slow your blurs down, ripwalks become more controled and the door to most blury tricks is opened. (Peter Irish is a good example.) my advise is first get some shorts that expose more of your leg. then practice setting and jumping at the same time. this is very importent because it will give you a little bit more time to perform the secound part of the move. and rember practice both sides, mabey try blizzard also. ryan sanders ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 1 16:51:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA19726 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 16:51:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from m9.sprynet.com (m9.sprynet.com [165.121.1.209]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA00312 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:37:51 -0700 Received: from sprynet.com (janej@copper.cobaltgroup.com [207.149.72.59]) by m9.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA16289 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3613A1BD.6A980755@sprynet.com> Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 08:37:33 -0700 From: Jane Jones Reply-To: iguana04@SPRYNET.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Footbag Subject: [freestyle] Re: Name of move? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey hey hey, I'm writing actually for a few of us Seattle folks... This guy Roark that kicks with us pulls a move that I suppose one could call a reverse whirling swirl. The ongoing debate over the last week has been...what's the actual name of the move? At first I said it was really not much different than a butterfly swirl, but then it was pointed out to me that the bag is actually circled lower than a butterfly (around the calf) making it more of a "reverse whirl" than a butterfly. Well, I don't know if it truly makes a different in which part of the bag you're circling when naming a move...can anyone help out here? I checked out the move list (assuming this would be on the 3 or 4 add list)clip->op out dex->swirl(?) Anyway, I still stand strong that it's just a difficult looking butterfly swirl, but by power of numbers, no one will be satisfied until I get an official answer. I didn't see anything mentioned about reverse whirls on the move list, so either I'm right and it's still just(an understatement) a butterfly swirl even though Roark is circling the bag with his calf, or there's another name for this we've overlooked, or we need to come up with a name for it. Anyone have something to say ? Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 1 18:35:46 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA21144 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:35:46 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02266 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:12:59 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA05453; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:12:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx7-02.ix.netcom.com(207.94.122.130) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005256; Thu Oct 1 13:11:39 1998 Message-ID: <361275E3.139E@utdallas.edu> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:18:11 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: iguana04@SPRYNET.com CC: Footbag Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Name of move? References: <3613A1BD.6A980755@sprynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jane Jones wrote: > At first I said it was really not much different than a butterfly swirl, > but then it was pointed out to me that the bag is actually circled lower > than a butterfly (around the calf) making it more of a "reverse whirl" > than a butterfly. Well, I don't know if it truly makes a different in > which part of the bag you're circling when naming a move...can anyone > help out here? > > From my understanding, a reverse whirl doesn't *really* exist. It is just one of those artistic difference type of things. Personally, I think that if the bag is circled with the lower part of the leg (below the knee) then it *is* a different move from one that is circled with the upper part. This is the theoretical difference between a same side butterfly and a 'reverse' whirl. So, the way I think about it, this guy is hitting a reverse whirling swirl. But, technically, it is just a butterfly swirl that is accentuated in an odd way. This debate came up a while back about dyno and same side corkscrew. A dyno is like a reverse whirl bail to same osis (dex is done with the lower part of the leg) while a same side corkscrew is like a same side butterfly bail to same osis (thigh does the dex). So, I don't know if I've been any help to you at all. The hard part about telling a 'reverse whirling swirl' from a butterfly swirl is this: What if the dex is done somewhere in between (right around the knee)? Would that be a butterfly swirl? Where do you draw the line? There isn't any clear way to say for sure that the dex was done high or low enough to make the two moves unique. For that reason, both moves are considered identical. See what I mean? If you *really* accentuate the fact that the lower leg is circling the bag, the move will look different from a plain ol' butterfly swirl, and for that reason, I think it should be called something else. Just do the move and call it what you want. Later -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 2 03:05:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA03536 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 03:05:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09915 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 19:42:48 -0700 Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA04483 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newbrendnet-10.idirect.com (newbrendnet-10.idirect.com [207.136.100.138]) by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA16104 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:42:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by newbrendnet-10.idirect.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BDEE47.A7876940@newbrendnet-10.idirect.com>; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 21:00:15 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDEE47.A7876940@newbrendnet-10.idirect.com> From: Rob Howe To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Moves On Video Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 21:00:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Just wondering how long before more moves get put on video and on the website. I personally find them quite helpful in learning new tricks. -Rob From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 2 03:18:22 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA03883 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 03:18:22 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA10005 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 19:56:21 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA18452; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:55:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcptest92.atext.com(206.66.71.251) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma018380; Thu Oct 1 21:55:08 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BDEE47.A7876940@newbrendnet-10.idirect.com> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 19:55:04 -0700 To: Rob Howe From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Moves On Video Cc: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:00 PM -0500 10/2/98, Rob Howe wrote: >Just wondering how long before more moves get put on video and on the >website. I personally find them quite helpful in learning new tricks. Okay, for the third time: I have about 50 moves (or more) on video; just haven't had time to scan them, edit them, title them, compress them, make thumbnails of them, upload them, test them, and integrate them. Obviously, that takes time. (It took me about 10 minutes per video segment to do all that for the first 15, and with 50 videos left, that's a *lot* of time.) But I can add incrementally, and will. Just keep checking back. I'll announce whenever I make major changes to the website either here, on the announce list, or on the "What's New" page which you should always check -- http://www.footbag.org/whats-new.html Don't hold your breath, though -- I'm pretty busy this month. Hopefully I'll find some time in the next few weeks to add a new increment and make improvements to the list. But as I requested last time, even though it's flattering to know everyone's enjoying the work I do on my website, please don't make me feel guilty about not doing more! :-) See you. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 2 22:48:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA09367 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 22:48:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pilot020.cl.msu.edu (pilot020.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.120]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA23405 for ; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:19:27 -0700 Received: (from kenned57@localhost) by pilot020.cl.msu.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id SAA51808 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:19:25 -0400 Message-Id: <199810022219.SAA51808@pilot020.cl.msu.edu> Subject: [freestyle] halloween To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:19:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Cameron Dean Kennedy" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Freestylers, I will be in the greater L.A. area for halloween for the Kiss world tour kick off. A buddy of mine are planning on arriving early in the day. If anyone in the area is up for a quick session sometime in the Early afternoon, let me know. , Cameron From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Oct 3 17:16:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA29287 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:16:14 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from TAO.sou.edu (root@Tao.sou.edu [140.211.92.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA30730 for ; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 02:28:53 -0700 Received: from 206.151.159.38 (dyn-2-05.sou.mind.net [206.151.159.38]) by TAO.sou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA01658 for ; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 02:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3615563B.A7D@tao.sou.edu> Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 14:39:55 -0800 From: "schrodt, forest" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Name of move? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derick Scalf wrote: > The hard part about telling a 'reverse whirling swirl' from a butterfly swirl is this: What if the dex is done somewhere in between (right around the knee)? Would that be a butterfly swirl? Where do you draw the line? There isn't any clear way to say for sure that the dex was done high or low enough to make the two moves unique. For that reason, both moves are considered identical. See what I mean? If you *really* accentuate the fact that the lower leg is circling the bag, the move will look different from a plain ol' butterfly swirl, and for that reason, I think it should be called something else. I think that the way you see the difference is in the positioning of the knee while doing the dexterity. In a butterfly the knee is pointing to the outside of the body and positioned seperatly from the planting leg. In a reverse whirl, the knee is pointing down and the dexterity leg is(from the knee up) parrallel to the plant leg. I think that these are two distinctly different moves(butterfly and reverse whirl). I can do a butterfly and a reverse whirl on my right side but I can only do a regular butterfly on my left. I can hit a reverse whirling swirl (of course only on my right side) but I can't hit a normal butterfly swirl. For me, the muscles used and feel of the dexterity and motions of the two tricks is entirely different. The only thing they share is that they look the same in Jobs notation on paper. I think that it would be tough to call an infinity reverse whirl "paradox" but I still think it is a unique move. Eric Wulf was telling me that Peter Irish used to do reverse whirls often and that they had both determined that it was a unique move. Forest From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Oct 3 17:16:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA29293 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:16:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from TAO.sou.edu (root@Tao.sou.edu [140.211.92.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA30786 for ; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 02:51:29 -0700 Received: from 206.151.159.38 (dyn-2-05.sou.mind.net [206.151.159.38]) by TAO.sou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA14721 for ; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 02:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <36155B88.2ED9@tao.sou.edu> Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 15:02:32 -0800 From: "schrodt, forest" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re:Re: [freestyle] "Adds Revised-2" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just wanted to say that I agree with Derrick Fogle. I too, don't want to ever see footbag become a beaurocratic waste. I understand what Scott is trying to do in forcing us to fully form our ideas before we jump into changing everything but I don't like feeling disimpowered by the idea that everything has to be run through a mechanical meat grinder. It reminds me too much of a secretary trying to avoid dealing with a problem by saying its not following policy. I don't think this is Scotts intentions but it did kind of come of this way. I would be interested to hear what some of the other creators of the add system think of the new ideas. People like Rippin and Kenny. I also think it would be good to hear some feedback from more BAP members since it is BAP members who are, for the most part, at the most cutting edge of freestyle. For me personally, I think that idealy we should not worry abouts ADDs or any such but since there is so much imphesis being put on a move difficulty rating system as a means of pushing the level of play (going guiltless and tripless) then we need a rating system that works as accurately as possible and I think that the current ADD system is not as accurate as we need at this time in the sport. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Oct 3 19:02:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA22052 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 19:02:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00730 for ; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 11:35:43 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld6cf.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.153.143]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA18668 for ; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 14:35:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981003113239.006d7d74@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 11:32:39 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: [freestyle] butterfly, reverse whirl In-Reply-To: <3615563B.A7D@tao.sou.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > The only >thing they share is that they look the same in Jobs notation on paper. Well, *and* the same components, *and* the space on the comp card. What other objective dimensions are there for determining unique moves? (please don't say 'names') aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 5 03:37:27 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA25909 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 03:37:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com (smtp11.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.53]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12670 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 10:27:17 -0700 Received: from sympatico.ca (ppp306.qc.bellglobal.com [206.172.227.114]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA16882 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3617AF8B.5F534DEF@sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 13:25:32 -0400 From: S/G Duchesne Reply-To: sg.duchesne@sympatico.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [fr] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] new move? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Help me, my friend is doing a trick that is not listed and not very gracious but he can do an osis performed intirely in the air. He persisted to say that it is a flying osis but.... could someone help me. shredder from montreal From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 5 05:54:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA27190 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 05:54:10 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA19396 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:32:41 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA05832; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:32:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx2-40.ix.netcom.com(207.94.120.168) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005767; Mon Oct 5 00:31:41 1998 Message-ID: <361709A3.DDB@utdallas.edu> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 00:37:39 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sg.duchesne@sympatico.ca CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] new move? References: <3617AF8B.5F534DEF@sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org S/G Duchesne wrote: > > he can do an osis performed intirely in the air. He > persisted to say that it is a flying osis but.... could someone help me. > Could you explain a bit more? Any variation of osis that I have ever seen cannot be done symposium (in the air). Which foot sets and which one catches? What I am picturing is this: a left foot clipper sets the bag up. Then, without *immediately* planting the left foot, you turn and jump and catch the bag on your right foot clipper as your left foot lands on the ground. Is this what you are talking about? If so, I hate to say it, but it is nothing more than a sloppy osis. The reason I call it sloppy is because it is the exact same move as an osis - as far as which feet do the sets, catches, and plants - but it would be much harder to play out of. The only way to get a symposium add is to maintain the symposium throughout the move. This means that if what I described above is what your friend is doing, then you could *never* plant the left foot. Not before or after the final delay. This is impossible with an osis, so it is impossible to do a 'flying' osis. If I'm wrong in guessing what you were talking about, please clear up my confusion. Either way, in my opinion, it is always cool to do moves in as many different ways as possible. So, even if this move is just a weird osis, it is still unique in the way it looks, right? That is good enough for me. Coming up with new ways to do moves is the first step in coming up with new moves... I guess what I'm trying to say is keep the imagination alive and keep kicking. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 5 14:16:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA07841 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:16:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com (smtp11.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.53]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24006 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 06:04:41 -0700 Received: from sympatico.ca (ppp9939.qc.bellglobal.com [206.172.154.92]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22557 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:05:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3618C3DF.C3C05133@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 09:04:32 -0400 From: S/G Duchesne Reply-To: sg.duchesne@sympatico.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [fr] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle Subject: [freestyle] new osis? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org from a right foot clipper > jump (with the left) > performed an osis before he lands (like an eclipse).... I think.... From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 5 14:16:51 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA07854 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:16:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24318 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 06:46:45 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.61] (d208.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.208]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA21538; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:46:21 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <361709A3.DDB@utdallas.edu> References: <3617AF8B.5F534DEF@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:44:13 -0600 To: scalf@utdallas.edu, sg.duchesne@sympatico.ca From: Enlightener Subject: Re: [freestyle] new move? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! >Sloppy osis >The only way to get a symposium add is >to maintain the symposium throughout the move. This means that if what >I described above is what your friend is doing, then you could *never* >plant the left foot. Not before or after the final delay. This is >impossible with an osis, so it is impossible to do a 'flying' osis. Don't forget that the planted leg also needs to do a dexterity in order to get the symposium add. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 5 17:47:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA02180 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:47:31 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA26922 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:21:52 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0D00O016Z8OA@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:23:32 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 11:23:31 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] new move? In-reply-to: <361709A3.DDB@utdallas.edu> To: Derric Scalf Cc: sg.duchesne@sympatico.ca, freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, Derric Scalf wrote: > S/G Duchesne wrote: > > he can do an osis performed intirely in the air. He > > persisted to say that it is a flying osis but.... could someone help me. > The only way to get a symposium add is > to maintain the symposium throughout the move. This means that if what > I described above is what your friend is doing, then you could *never* > plant the left foot. Not before or after the final delay. This is > impossible with an osis, so it is impossible to do a 'flying' osis. I think if you go back and reread the original message you'll see that Symposium isn't mentioned anywhere. What he's going for is whether or not it's a flier. Here's a move I do on occasion: Set from anywhere (usually I set toe), while the bag is in the air I jump as though I'm going to do a flying clipper, but instead of kicking it I stall on clipper and release while still in the air. This would more or less be a Flying Clipper Stall. Planting is allowed because there is no symposium involved. I think this guy is doing something similar only he's pulling it into an osis. He's actually catching the bag on one side and carrying it over to the other (like an osis) only it's probably really fast and the entire trick takes place in the air. What do you think? BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 5 18:15:51 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA10814 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:15:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27381 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:38:04 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0D000017QKNZ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:39:56 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 11:39:55 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Moves On Video In-reply-to: <01BDEE47.A7876940@newbrendnet-10.idirect.com> To: Rob Howe Cc: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Rob Howe wrote: > Just wondering how long before more moves get put on video and on the website. I personally find them quite helpful in learning new tricks. I agree! The website is great for helping to learn new stuff and we should all thank Steve for the great job he's doing for us and the sport, by providing all the information he does. THANKS STEVE. I also think it would be a great idea if someone with extreme ability had the time to come out with a follow up video to Tricks of the Trade. Something that covers new 3-7 add moves. Shred videos are great and give help on certain things, but they lack the step by step instruction/tips and slow motion viewing which help to realize certain parts of moves, as well as only seeing the one move done instead of having to find it in a guiltless string. This would also help people who have limited or no internet access to have another forum for study and make money for the producer. Suggestively speaking, BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 5 18:18:19 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA10840 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:18:19 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27668 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:52:19 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0D001018D5JN@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:53:29 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 11:53:29 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Name of move? In-reply-to: <361275E3.139E@utdallas.edu> To: Derric Scalf Cc: iguana04@SPRYNET.com, Footbag Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > From my understanding, a reverse whirl doesn't *really* exist. It is > just one of those artistic difference type of things. Personally, I > think that if the bag is circled with the lower part of the leg (below > the knee) then it *is* a different move from one that is circled with > the upper part. This is the theoretical difference between a same side > butterfly and a 'reverse' whirl. I think right now this is subject to the move being done. As Eli had posted some time ago some people do tricks from the hip and others from the knee. A legbeater from a more "hippy" set (dex done with upper leg) is still a legbeater if the dex is done lower near the calf. I think in this case of whirling, however, if the knee is pointed inward, the rotation come from the knee and not the hip, and it is obviously quite distiguished from a butterfly motion, it would be a reverse whirling swirl instead of a butterfly swirl. BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 5 19:28:55 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA28029 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:28:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA27891 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:00:22 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA26945; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:59:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcp205-116.atext.com(205.180.137.116) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma026763; Mon Oct 5 12:58:30 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <361709A3.DDB@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:58:43 -0700 To: KAPLAN BRADLEY M From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] new move? Cc: Derric Scalf , sg.duchesne@sympatico.ca, freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:23 AM -0600 10/5/98, KAPLAN BRADLEY M wrote: >..the entire trick takes place in the air. When a move is done entirely in the air, it's a flyer and gets a body add. The only sticking point is the definition of "entirely in the air", since many moves happen with both feet off the ground for a brief time. Use your best judgment in determining this; but if you are experienced at freestyle, there's no doubt in your mind whether something's a different move because it's done in the air, or not. A competent judge will give it an extra add for body if they have half a brain. Next question. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 5 19:29:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA28039 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:29:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28196 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:18:33 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0D002019CUXO@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:14:54 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 12:14:53 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] two new tricks? To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yesterday and two days previos I hit two new moves. I'm not sure if the notation will work for me here so I'll do my best. clip set> same dex (plant)> same out dex> cross body delay I think. This is almost like a Motion but the first dex gets planted, as though your setting paradox legbeater, only you then do a dyno with the same leg instead of a butterfly with the op. leg. The other one I don't know how to notate but it goes like this: Shoot set from a clipper then the same foot does a dyno. Anyone seen or done these. Besides the conglomerate of naming like shooting dyno and tapping dyno are there other names for these? Also, we were debating paradox on the first move and figured in order for it be paradox the second dex would have to come from the opposite leg. Is this a fact. If so, how do we get paradox reverse mirage from almost the same movement without the second dex. It would seem paradox to me for this reason: my understanding of a tap would be that it comes from a toe set and the op. leg does a reverse miraging plant and comes back around to do... say a mirage. Does it change when you set that from clipper, and use the same leg to do the first dex and plant, to a paradox tap. Sorry to open any old wounds, BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 5 19:29:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA28056 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:29:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA27979 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:07:31 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA05371 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:07:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] new move? Message-Id: <000000137282990455601@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 13:06:40 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, Oct 5, 1998, 12:23:31 PM US CDT KAPLAN BRADLEY M wrote: >to the other (like an osis) only it's probably really fast and the entire >trick takes place in the air. There's any number of bag contacts that can be done 'in the air' as a flier as well as on the ground, delays included. The Eclipse is one of the few of these that ever became popular. Under the current 'antiquated' add system, any time you contact the bag in the air during a flier it is an extra add, so a flying osis would net you 4 big ones. Here's another one to try that I used to dabble with: Flying 2-contact moves. The one I worked on was a flying butterfly kick or paradox dragonfly into an osis - all flying - in one big-air move. You have to kind of cradle the bag and bump it from one foot to the other during the flier. It is very hard and a bit awkward. The timing demands that you do the first contact while still more or less on the way up, so you have time to do the rest of the move while still in the air. The paradox dragonfly route gives a better ability to really define the first leg-over, but made the timing much harder because it is very difficult to do a paradox dragonfly so early in a move. The flying butterfly route never yielded a good clear-cut legover, but made the rest of the timing much easier. Technically, if one were to really pull it off (I never really did), the 'old' add system was sort of inadequate to measure such a thing. It really really really is one single 'move', but contains two contacts. Give 3 to the first paradox dragonfly and 4 to the flying osis, but there should probably be an extra point awarded in there somewhere for a foot-to-foot pass in a single flier. Here's another thing I just thought of: a paradox dragonfly to a flying refraction - all one big in-air move. You would throw one leg over the bag, do a foot-to-foot bump, and end up throwing the other leg over the bag as you brought it back up. A sort of matched, symmetrical double-contact flying move! ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle the fossil with a piece or two of petrified wood still up his sleeve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 5 19:54:54 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA03826 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:54:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f157.hotmail.com [207.82.251.36]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA29228 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:24:40 -0700 Received: (qmail 26532 invoked by uid 0); 5 Oct 1998 19:24:09 -0000 Message-ID: <19981005192409.26531.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 198.189.235.187 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 05 Oct 1998 12:24:09 PDT X-Originating-IP: [198.189.235.187] From: "Ryan Sanders" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] need the info Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 12:24:09 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I heard about a new video coming out but I don't know if it is out yet I believe it is called grateful shred or rye shred. The video consists of the '98 circles. If anyone knows if the video is out please give me the adress that I can purches it. ryan sanders ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 6 06:16:51 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA20138 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:16:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05310 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:55:41 -0700 Received: from mindspring.com (user-38ld1e2.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.133.194]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07942; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3619B0ED.A0AF3EC9@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 01:56:01 -0400 From: ryan Reply-To: masuga@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ryan Sanders CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] need the info References: <19981005192409.26531.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The video is Rye Shred and it rocks! 68 minutes of sheer shredding madness. And for $15 you can't lose. Eli Piltz did a great job on this video and everyone should own it. Buy multiple copies...show your "hacky-sackin'" buddies what Freestyle is REALLY about! The best player my brother knows is me (and I only just learned Blur and Blizzard...that poor deluded kid) and I said, "No, no, no...watch this..." and it blew his mind. Email Eli at ezshredz@yahoo.com. ryan NYFA PS Just pay me next time you see me, Eli. PPS Hi ho, JP! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 6 16:13:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA26624 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:13:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f31.hotmail.com [207.82.250.42]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA08516 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 03:29:40 -0700 Received: (qmail 5509 invoked by uid 0); 6 Oct 1998 10:29:09 -0000 Message-ID: <19981006102909.5508.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.131 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 06 Oct 1998 03:29:09 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.131] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] two new tricks? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 03:29:09 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >clip set> same dex (plant)> same out dex> cross body delay I think. >This is almost like a Motion but the first dex gets planted I call moves like these Ñtapped outì (if you get the reference keep it to yourself). One of my favorites is fairy (plant) same side butterfly, ie taped out double-over-down, so what you are doing I would call taped out motion. Funny how the add system doesn't distinguish these as separate moves, I seem to recall one of the new system ideas counted plants... >Also, we were debating paradox on the first move and figured in order >for it be paradox the second dex would have to come from the opposite >leg. Is this a fact? We can pretend that paradox has a real definition, or we can just concede it means, Ña clipper set move that is harder than from a normal setì. I would however say from my understanding of paradox that this would not count because the non planting version doesn't. -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 6 16:14:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA26639 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:14:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (mail.callplus.co.nz [202.27.103.146]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA06200 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:13:31 -0700 Received: by mail.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:12:01 +1300 Message-ID: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C1E47B4@mail.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Yet another new move query Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:11:59 +1300 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Heya all... Just wondering if anyone else has hit Paradox Atom Smasher B4....and if it has some sort of kooky name like "Masked Yaksman" or summin... Cheers... From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 6 16:48:57 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA02561 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:48:57 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pop01.globecomm.net (pop01.globecomm.net [206.253.129.185]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA13059 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:24:30 -0700 Received: from who.net (dialup47.281.com [209.84.39.86]) by pop01.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id MAA19677; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <361A4501.FDA94D37@who.net> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 11:27:45 -0500 From: Eric Burgess X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Dick CC: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Yet another new move query References: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C1E47B4@mail.callplus.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Adrian Dick wrote: > > Heya all... > > Just wondering if anyone else has hit Paradox Atom Smasher B4....and if > it has some sort of kooky name like "Masked Yaksman" or summin... i've hit it before but i don't know of a special name for it. speaking of special names though, i think the paradox reverse mirage set that you do to hit that, or pdx legbeater, ought to have a name. i had an idea for it but i forgot :) i'll post again if i think of it. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 7 05:42:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA28522 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 05:42:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA23529; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:07:07 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id RNVAa19214; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:59:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <614559b0.361af54a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:59:54 EDT To: e@who.net, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, AdrianD@callplus.co.nz Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle] Yet another new move query Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 10/6/98 8:31:54 AM, e@who.net wrote: <<> it has some sort of kooky name like "Masked Yaksman" or summin... >> I say we get a new name for this move... Spaz smasher or Nanosmasher... there's not much you can do with out hitting the move mysself I guess thats where you get the impetus to create new moves names I hear.. btw WHATS AN AMADEUS? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 7 05:42:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA28523 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 05:42:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from baygate.bayarea.net (root@baygate.bayarea.net [204.71.212.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA23628 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:19:37 -0700 Received: from gram (205-219-66-224.bayarea.net [205.219.66.224]) by baygate.bayarea.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA09740 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:19:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01bdf1b2$9636fa20$e042dbcd@gram> Reply-To: "Jboy" From: "Jboy Gran" To: Subject: [freestyle] Move name Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:23:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDF177.E7E21E80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDF177.E7E21E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >of special names though, i think the paradox reverse mirage set that = you >do to hit that, or pdx legbeater, ought to have a name. i had an idea=20 I was thinking about what eric said about naming the paradox reverse = miraging motion, and wondered if there is a widely accepted name for the = gyrating blurry moves. As far as I know Red Fred Husted and I were the = first to start doing those (although I had seen Peter Irish try it = before I thought of it) and we coined the name "Pandora's Box" set, = meaning it's similar to Tuan's box set, and it lets fly a whole bunch of = wicked moves. The first few moves we called names of Greek gods = following the theme. Gyro Blur =3D Zeus Gyro Ripwalk =3D Prometheus any others? Jboy ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDF177.E7E21E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>of special names though, i think = the paradox=20 reverse mirage set that you
>do to hit that, or pdx legbeater, = ought to=20 have a name.  i had an idea 
 
   I was thinking about = what eric said=20 about naming the paradox reverse miraging motion, and wondered if there = is a=20 widely accepted name for the gyrating blurry moves.  As far as I = know Red=20 Fred Husted and I were the first to start doing those (although I had = seen Peter=20 Irish try it before I thought of it) and we coined the name = "Pandora's=20 Box" set, meaning it's similar to Tuan's box set, and it lets fly a = whole=20 bunch of wicked moves.  The first few moves we called names of = Greek gods=20 following the theme.
 
Gyro Blur =3D Zeus
Gyro Ripwalk =3D = Prometheus
any others?
 
Jboy
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDF177.E7E21E80-- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 7 21:30:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA13038 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:30:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send104.yahoomail.com (send104.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.122]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA01631 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:44:20 -0700 Message-ID: <19981007204629.12630.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.191.85] by send104.yahoomail.com; Wed, 07 Oct 1998 13:46:29 PDT Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:46:29 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: [freestyle] the NUCLEAR set To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Okay, at first I was against naming the 'pdox rev. miraging' set. But sure, why not. Since a regular 'rev mirage set' is called 'ATOMIC', why not make the pdox version similar: 'NUCLEAR'. Hence, pdox legbeater= 'nuclear beater' or 'nuclear butterfly' pdox atomsmasher= 'nuclear smasher' or 'nuclear mirage' pdox atomic whirl= 'nuclear war' pdox atomic torque= 'nuclear torque' pdox atomic drifter= 'nuclear drifter' at first I didn't like 'nuclear' but it kind of grew on me. Well how about naming the 'pdox tapping set'? Any ideas?...besides 'smashing pumpkin',(Brad). :) i've done pdox tapping mirage, drifter, and whirl. anyone else done these? Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 8 03:10:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA17952 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 03:10:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from student.canberra.edu.au (student.canberra.edu.au [137.92.12.102]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06142 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:47:31 -0700 Received: from by student.canberra.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA09051; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:47:15 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:47:14 +1000 (EST) From: Nathan Bayliss To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Double legover & stomping d l.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi there, i've got a couple of q's regarding some pretty basic freestyle moves. I'm wondering if anyone could give me any pointers with double legover (and stomping double l..), at the moment I can jump over with both legs but by that stage my bag is virtually hitting the ground. If I set it higher i find it a bitch to jump over in time. Any tips would be greatly appreciated, and an advanced apology goes out to all those easily annoyed freestylers who can hit big apple sauce and can't stand learners... although come to think of it, if you're that good you'd have to be pretty bloody patient. anyway.. ;) And while I'm here, I was wondering a couple of things, out of interest. Firstly, what bags do the advanced members of this list use? I'm expecting everyone to reply "the juice" or something, but I'm interested all the same. And secondly, I was wondering which of those vids from worlds 98 are the "hardest". I know it's subjective (the only one I'm sure of is the hi-res one of ryan. Mate, if you are reading this, you are a god) but to me they're all pretty impressive, so I'd like some more discerning judgements. If you want to have an answer of any of my q's I'd be chuffed. Thanks a lot, nathan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 8 04:00:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA26556 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 04:00:14 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06714 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:24:13 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id XAA13890; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:30:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Rebel Alliance Footbag Open Highlight In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org All I wanted to say was: Peter Irish: blurry whirl to big apple to paradox whirl- quoth the other JP- Wahoooo! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 8 21:59:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA06506 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:59:13 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from postoffice2.direcpc.com (mail.direcpc.com [198.77.116.30]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA10949 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 04:37:40 -0700 Received: from direcpc.com ([206.71.114.112]) by postoffice2.direcpc.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-45425U50000L50000S0) with ESMTP id AAA3134 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:37:56 -0400 Message-ID: <35CAF4D8.AB55BC5@direcpc.com> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 07:36:41 -0500 From: Matt Avery Organization: 4th Dimension Interactive X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Rebel Alliance Footbag Open Highlight References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org preach on! Amen. Magically Delicious Josh Penney wrote: > All I wanted to say was: > Peter Irish: > blurry whirl to big apple to paradox whirl- > > quoth the other JP- > > Wahoooo! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 8 21:59:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA06513 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:59:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f221.hotmail.com [207.82.251.112]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA10602 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 03:35:32 -0700 Received: (qmail 22781 invoked by uid 0); 8 Oct 1998 10:35:01 -0000 Message-ID: <19981008103501.22780.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.135 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 03:35:01 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.135] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Rebel Alliance Footbag Open Highlight Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 03:35:01 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >All I wanted to say was: >Peter Irish: >blurry whirl to big apple to paradox whirl- I used to try big apple every once in a while, about the third try I pulled something, thats all I have to say about that... In other news and smaller moves, I think I created something, butterfly whirl. I got the idea from all the talk about reverce whirls and where the dex is performed on the leg, so it works like this, cross over the bag with the top of your leg like a butterfly, then after the first dex, whirl the bag with the same leg. something like, toe>opp out>same in>opp clip This works because different parts of the leg do the different dexs. Im thinking of calling it after thought, anyone seen this, done it? -Andrew P.S. will someone please explain gyro blur, I just cannot picture how to get that second dex. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 8 21:59:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA06537 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:59:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA11242 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 05:35:26 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.65] (d65.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.65]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA06125; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:35:09 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:40:25 -0600 To: Nathan Bayliss , freestyle@footbag.org From: Enlightener Subject: Re: [freestyle] Double legover & stomping d l.. Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Nathan and Freestylers! At 12:47 PM +1000 10/8/98, Nathan Bayliss wrote: >Hi there, i've got a couple of q's regarding some pretty basic freestyle >moves. I'm wondering if anyone could give me any pointers with double >legover (and stomping double l..), at the moment I can jump over with both >legs but by that stage my bag is virtually hitting the ground. If I set >it higher i find it a bitch to jump over in time. For double leg over, check out the recent issue of Kickers Quarterly where I, with photos, outline each inuendo of the move in 16 frames. The synopsis: Get over the bag with your first leg immediately after the set. It is a low set, maybe knee high or slightly higher, straight up and down. After that it is just a quick out-in dex with your second leg. Good luck. >And while I'm here, I was wondering a couple of things, out of interest. >Firstly, what bags do the advanced members of this list use? Hu-Mungis are the best, but hard to come by. Carol bags are now, by my personal account, the best and most available bags (the juice is also available, but you will notice many freestylers swearing by the Carol bags)... also Carol makes them herself, she is world champion and very deserving of that title, so they come "out of the box" touched by greatness with a huge aura. If you go the juice route, make sure to get the "facile" juice. In heavy wind conditions, I resort to the dirtbag, as it is small and heavy, and therefore wind resistant. Inspiration over intimidation! See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 8 21:59:27 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA06519 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:59:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f106.hotmail.com [207.82.250.225]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA12848 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:16:06 -0700 Received: (qmail 5585 invoked by uid 0); 8 Oct 1998 15:15:56 -0000 Message-ID: <19981008151556.5584.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 32.100.224.25 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 08:15:56 PDT X-Originating-IP: [32.100.224.25] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] knee pain Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 11:15:56 EDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I've got a bad problem. I use to be able to kick for hours on end but now I am having problems. One day I was kicking and I I started to have a pain in my right knee. I didn't think anything of it but then it happened again the next time I kicked. I has happened about four time now. It's really making me mad because I can't kick for more than an hour at a time. Could someone help me? if i'm having these problems at 16 what is it going to be like at 30????? Steve Miskiewicz ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 8 22:00:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA06555 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:00:31 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mcfs.whowhere.com (mcfs.whowhere.com [209.1.236.44]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA13735 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:06:42 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by theglobe.com; Thu Oct 8 08:55:28 1998 To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 08:55:28 -0700 From: "Ian Dubman" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [freestyle] the NUCLEAR set X-Sender-Ip: 128.206.120.81 Organization: E-Mail @ The Globe (http://www.globe-mail.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I like it Eli !!! I work at a nuclear reactor(that is where I am right now). But, are you calling "flux" an "atomic torque"(rev. miraging osis)?? Because "nuclear flux" is real terminology, not to mention it makes a dank name for a move. Though I realize the "nuclear-" encompasses the reverse mirage, a part of the flux, just make an exception?? Who knows? I like the name for the set. My Pinion, Ian -- On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:46:29 EZ Piltz wrote: > >Okay, at first I was against naming the 'pdox rev. miraging' set. But >sure, why not. >Since a regular 'rev mirage set' is called 'ATOMIC', why not make the >pdox version similar: 'NUCLEAR'. > >Hence, >pdox legbeater= 'nuclear beater' or 'nuclear butterfly' >pdox atomsmasher= 'nuclear smasher' or 'nuclear mirage' >pdox atomic whirl= 'nuclear war' >pdox atomic torque= 'nuclear torque' >pdox atomic drifter= 'nuclear drifter' > >at first I didn't like 'nuclear' but it kind of grew on me. > >Well how about naming the 'pdox tapping set'? >Any ideas?...besides 'smashing pumpkin',(Brad). :) >i've done pdox tapping mirage, drifter, and whirl. >anyone else done these? > > >Eli >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > "Free web-based email available now at http://www.theglobe.com" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 8 22:00:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA06561 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:00:36 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from webster.lcc.ctc.edu (lcc.ctc.edu [134.39.132.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14081 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:22:04 -0700 Received: from lab2.ctc.edu (134.39.132.52) by webster.lcc.ctc.edu (WORLDMAIL 1.3.166) for freestyle@footbag.org; 8 Oct 1998 09:24:51 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981008092628.006975cc@lcc.ctc.edu> X-Sender: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:26:28 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ahren Gehrman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Shredders! What's up? The Torch has joined the party. I don't have any questions or comments yet, I just wanted to let y'all know I'm here. Well, now that I think about it I did have a question. Who was it that had the shred tape from '98 worlds? I'll probably buy it from you if you're selling it. Anyway, I can't wait to talk to y'all. Shred Hard!!!!!!!! Ahren Gehrman "The Torch" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 8 22:00:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA06549 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:00:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f32.hotmail.com [207.82.250.43]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA13245 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:37:54 -0700 Received: (qmail 9743 invoked by uid 0); 8 Oct 1998 15:37:22 -0000 Message-ID: <19981008153722.9742.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 32.100.224.25 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 08:37:21 PDT X-Originating-IP: [32.100.224.25] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] the unlimited sport Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 11:37:21 EDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was just thinking of how much this sport evolves. Why I asked my self, two reasons I could think of; the rules of don't use your hands and don't let the bag touch the ground. Thats it, as simple as you could get. People make new moves and strands all the time. Unlike other sports which have a well designed rule book where hardly anything is changed (i.e. football, basketball). In footbag a kicker is only limited to his skill and the limit of his thoughts. One other thing that has been a big help is this forum. I'm not very good but by just comunicating with other kickers and reading other messages has helped me get better. It's also very helpful because I have never seen anyone better than me at kicking in real life, even though I am not very good comparing to compitition levels. Many of these tricks are hard to learn without a mentor or another kicker to talk about things with. I'm sure everyone on the forum aready knew this. I guess I was just sort of thinking out loud. On a rainy day off in Pa, Steve Miskiewicz ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 8 22:00:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA06588 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:00:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18621 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:26:22 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA05663 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:25:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx43-39.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.167) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005615; Thu Oct 8 16:25:31 1998 Message-ID: <361D2F69.40C2@utdallas.edu> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 16:32:25 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] OUT dexes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org OK. I have a question about moves that involve out dexes. I can't seem to do many of them and I want some tips. I can hit blur on demand, but blizzrd eludes me. Even a simple pdx reverse mirage gives me grief. What should I concentrate on to get this dex? Also, the "all-in-one" type of moves give me trouble. By this, I mean double legover done all at once (I can do a blur set to a legover, but that isn't quite the same). It seems that if the double legover can be done all at once, the door to paradox, blurry, pixie, fairy, gyro and stepping double legover will be open. The same applies to my torques. I can link as many torques as I need, but I do them with a big blurry set bailed to osis. If I could get them all at once, I think I could start hitting paradox torque and mobius. Maybe even the elusive blurry torque. This all in one concept even applies to my weak attempts at eggbeater. I can get legbeater, but if I try to do the big arial all in one double dex moves, it just doesn't seem to work out. I've seen many people crank out clipper set and toe set eggbeaters - even link them, but I have no luck. Please... Any advice you can give would help me out a lot. Thanks. -Derric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 8 22:19:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA15163 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:19:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (mail.callplus.co.nz [202.27.103.146]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA19353 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:55:55 -0700 Received: by mail.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:54:18 +1300 Message-ID: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C1EEA0E@mail.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] the NUCLEAR set Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:54:17 +1300 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Nuclear sounds like a nice name of a paradox reverse mirage set to me. Now who's gonna hit Nuclear Fusion? PS. New consecutive record for Atom Smashers is now 5 :-) -----Original Message----- From: Ian Dubman [SMTP:ezian@theglobe.com] Sent: Friday, 9 October 1998 04:55 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] the NUCLEAR set I like it Eli !!! I work at a nuclear reactor(that is where I am right now). But, are you calling "flux" an "atomic torque"(rev. miraging osis)?? Because "nuclear flux" is real terminology, not to mention it makes a dank name for a move. Though I realize the "nuclear-" encompasses the reverse mirage, a part of the flux, just make an exception?? Who knows? I like the name for the set. My Pinion, Ian -- On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:46:29 EZ Piltz wrote: > >Okay, at first I was against naming the 'pdox rev. miraging' set. But >sure, why not. >Since a regular 'rev mirage set' is called 'ATOMIC', why not make the >pdox version similar: 'NUCLEAR'. > >Hence, >pdox legbeater= 'nuclear beater' or 'nuclear butterfly' >pdox atomsmasher= 'nuclear smasher' or 'nuclear mirage' >pdox atomic whirl= 'nuclear war' >pdox atomic torque= 'nuclear torque' >pdox atomic drifter= 'nuclear drifter' > >at first I didn't like 'nuclear' but it kind of grew on me. > >Well how about naming the 'pdox tapping set'? >Any ideas?...besides 'smashing pumpkin',(Brad). :) >i've done pdox tapping mirage, drifter, and whirl. >anyone else done these? > > >Eli >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > "Free web-based email available now at http://www.theglobe.com" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 8 22:55:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA23756 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:55:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19640 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:09:52 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA11197; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:09:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx43-39.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.167) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma011168; Thu Oct 8 17:09:25 1998 Message-ID: <361D39B1.7783@utdallas.edu> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 17:16:17 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ian Dubman CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] the NUCLEAR set References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ian Dubman wrote: > > But, are you calling "flux" an "atomic torque"(rev. miraging osis)?? Because "nuclear flux" is real terminology, not to mention it makes a dank name for a move. Though I realize the "nuclear-" encompasses the reverse mirage, a part of the flux, just make an exception?? Who knows? I like the name for the set. > What Eli was calling 'nuclear' was the *paradox* rev miraging set. So, a paradox flux (Eric Burgess might want to talk about this move) would be a nuclear osis. I guess a nuclear flux would be a paradox reverse miraging flux. Wow. I just thought about that move and it made my knee hurt. Eli, you've hit 'nuclear' torque, right? How about nuclear flux? Just out of curiosity, has anyone hit nuclear reverse mirage, or I guess you could call it pdx. rev. miraging rev. mirage. What is that? A paradox scrambled eggbeater? Just some thoughts... -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 9 06:28:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA21202 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:28:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20525 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:52:05 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id RAA21062; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:51:48 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:51:48 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Andrew McCargar cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Rebel Alliance Footbag Open Highlight In-Reply-To: <19981008103501.22780.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > In other news and smaller moves, I think I created something, butterfly > whirl. I got the idea from all the talk about reverce whirls and where > the dex is performed on the leg, so it works like this, cross over the > bag with the top of your leg like a butterfly, then after the first dex, > whirl the bag with the same leg. > something like, toe>opp out>same in>opp clip > This works because different parts of the leg do the different dexs. Im > thinking of calling it after thought, anyone seen this, done it? I think that is a tapping whirl. > P.S. will someone please explain gyro blur, I just cannot picture how to > get that second dex. just do a gyro-mirage and then follow it with another mirage with the other foot. clip>back spin >same in [dex] >op in [dex] >op toe. A big 4 adds according to the add system. There is a move that gets severely ripped by the add system. Although I fail to see why this shouldn't be paradox, I don't want to start another debate. Later From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 9 06:28:51 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA21213 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:28:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20126 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:35:45 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA14338; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:35:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx43-39.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.167) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma014260; Thu Oct 8 17:34:53 1998 Message-ID: <361D3FA8.3C81@utdallas.edu> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 17:41:44 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Miskiewicz CC: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] knee pain References: <19981008151556.5584.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve Miskiewicz wrote: > > I've got a bad problem. I use to be able to kick for hours on end but > now I am having problems. One day I was kicking and I I started to have > a pain in my right knee. I didn't think anything of it but then it > happened again the next time I kicked. I has happened about four time > now. It's really making me mad because I can't kick for more than an > hour at a time. Could someone help me? if i'm having these problems at > 16 what is it going to be like at 30????? > Knees suck. I mean, what is up with two bones that almost come together and then are covered by a third bone that doesn't do a damn thing? I hurt my knee skiing years ago and it didn't really bother me until I learned whirls. After countless amounts of money on MRI's and the like, the thing that actually helped was a shot of cortizone under the kneecap and some basic excersises. Try this: Ideally, you want to be sitting down for this one. Put something between your legs. I used a file cabinet up at work. Then, try to force your legs together. This strengthens the inner thigh. Normal wear and tear on the knee uses the outside of your thigh a lot more than the inside. So, what worked for me was strengthening the inner thigh. The doctor said that by having the outside of my thigh stronger than the inside, it was pulling my kneecap to one side of my knee... not a good thing. By working the muscle on the inner thigh, it pulled my kneecap back into place. Also, if you are laying on your back, you can put a little pillow under your calves. Then, try to force the back of your knees to touch the ground. I don't know the reasoning behind this one... all I know is that my knee doesn't hurt any more. And, while you are still laying down, do leg lifts. The doctor said to make T's with each leg, but I usually made circles (like I was going around a bag). I should still be doing this one, but I'm lazy. Stretching and building up muscle around the joints really just hides the problem. If your knee is screwed up, it will just be screwed up under a stronger leg. But, the way I look at it is that if it doesn't hurt, it isn't a problem. Don't over do anything. If a move hurts to do, don't do it. At least not until you have built up the muscles required for the move. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 9 06:29:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA21220 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:29:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: SuperOwen@aol.com Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id ILBQa04134 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:51:44 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:51:44 EDT To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Frustration Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm 15 and have been doing footbag hardcore for only bout a month or two. And I'm having a heck of a time getting the hang of it. I was just kinda curious when some of you older guys started and how long it took you to get halfway decent and what you did to get there? That's about it. The Frustrated Total Package From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 9 06:28:51 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA21214 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:28:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21102 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:39:58 -0700 Received: from mindspring.com (user-38ld0d9.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.129.169]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24279; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:39:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <361D4D65.ACC0BA12@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:40:23 -0400 From: ryan Reply-To: masuga@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: scalf@utdallas.edu CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] OUT dexes References: <361D2F69.40C2@utdallas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org D- I seem to hit out dexes on my right side very easily. It took me a million tries to hit Blur, and once I got that, 2 tries to hit a Blizzard. My Pdx Rev Mirage is practically in slow motion (maybe that's only mentally, though). I think of the set (and this goes for both moves) as moving across my body at about waist height. I visualize beforehand where I want the bag to be and set it not so much up as across. Then, when you're doing the dex (let's say for Pdx Rev Mirage) as your right leg is moving toward the left around the bag (from the knee, not the hip), I rotate my trunk towards the right simultaneously (turning into the leg, more or less). I usually end stalling the bag (more often in PR Mirage than in Blizzard!) with a nice smooth little scoop of the left toe. If I don't rotate my trunk, I find I'm trying to stick my left leg across the centerline of my body to catch the bag, which never works. Remember, it's all about staying OVER the bag, which essentially means facing it (ie, you twist toward the bag on clippers...etc). So if I'm sending my set across my body, I have to rotate my trunk slightly to follow it. Hope that helped somewhat. To all you lucky bastards who have warm winters or places to kick indoors with your friends...all I have to say to YOU is...can I be your friend? Live from dank rainy New York - ryan NYFA From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 9 06:29:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA21226 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:29:13 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA24112; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:15:54 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 4HSVa22052; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:14:17 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <76ca544a.361d7f89@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:14:17 EDT To: AdrianD@callplus.co.nz, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: RE: [freestyle] the NUCLEAR set Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 10/8/98 2:11:08 PM, AdrianD@callplus.co.nz wrote: <> the unofficial record... hehehe muha muhuhuhahaha.. I mean yeah the unoffical record consult daryl.....or tuan... or .... some of out unsung underground shredders... later ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 9 06:29:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA21232 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:29:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: ShReDStEiN@aol.com Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA24335; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:34:21 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id RGLWa17800; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:21:08 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:21:08 EDT To: zogg13@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] the unlimited sport Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 10/8/98 1:55:40 PM, zogg13@hotmail.com wrote: <> Thats some of the best sh*t I've read in a while... I think you guys should all email steve here some props.. Nice job... Kick on shred heads ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 9 06:29:54 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA21242 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:29:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA24371 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:34:42 -0700 Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA21751 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:34:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fatenet14.idirect.com (fatenet14.idirect.com [207.136.87.206]) by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id XAA26668 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:34:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fatenet14.idirect.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BDF3CF.1480B100@fatenet14.idirect.com>; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:52:16 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDF3CF.1480B100@fatenet14.idirect.com> From: Rob Howe To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Trip To Melbourne/Sydney Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:48:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id DAA11407 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org what's up guys, I will be heading 'down under' this dec/jan. and I was wondering about the footbag scene down in Melbourne? I was also wondering if there is any footbag merchandise I might keep my eyes out for(shoes, bags, videos, etc)? Anyway I'd really like to shred with some experienced shredders as I am still a beginner so if you live in that region give me a shout. Rob From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 9 06:30:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA21296 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:30:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send102.yahoomail.com (send102.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.90]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA24923 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:42:31 -0700 Message-ID: <19981009044259.13398.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.194.248] by send102.yahoomail.com; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 21:42:59 PDT Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:42:59 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Rebel Alliance Footbag Open Highlight To: Andrew McCargar Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andrew wrote: > In other news and smaller moves, I think I created something, butterfly > whirl. After reading your description, it sounds similar to "tapping whirl"- 4 add, except you aren't planting the dex leg inbetween the dexes. I'm pretty sure you have to plant that leg to get credit for dex #1. It's like this: toe set> op rev mirage> plant> same whirl> clip. You asked if anyone's done this. I'm sure Tuan Vu could do this 1st try, and I can hit it on command. I've done it pdox, too, but I won't try that again: it kinda tweaked my knee. Monster Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 9 06:30:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA21302 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:30:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA24466 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:45:55 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id XAA04928; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:52:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] OUT dexes In-Reply-To: <361D2F69.40C2@utdallas.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > blizzrd eludes me. Even a simple pdx reverse mirage gives me grief. > What should I concentrate on to get this dex? Change the axis of rotation. > Also, the "all-in-one" type of moves give me trouble. > have no luck. Please... Any advice you can give would help me out a > lot. Thanks. What you need, as my friend Eric explained to me, is *umph*. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 9 06:30:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA21308 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:30:42 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA24499 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:48:52 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id XAA04950; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:55:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:55:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] the NUCLEAR set In-Reply-To: <361D39B1.7783@utdallas.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I guess you could call it pdx. rev. miraging rev. mirage. What is > that? A paradox scrambled eggbeater? Just some thoughts... Pdox eggbeater. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 9 06:31:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA21322 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:31:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from TAO.sou.edu (root@Tao.sou.edu [140.211.92.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA24860 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:28:59 -0700 Received: from 206.151.159.62 (dyn-2-29.sou.mind.net [206.151.159.62]) by TAO.sou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA25746 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:30:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <361CF8F5.5E53@tao.sou.edu> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:40:05 -0800 From: "schrodt, forest" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re:[freestyle] knee pain Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Steve and everyone on the list. I found that it is important to have another sport other than footbag that exercises some of the muscles that may not get worked while stylin. I play soccer and bump ski and as hard to believe as it sounds, I have never had any knee problems accept when I went for a year without doing any other activities other than shredding. I found that I started getting more injuries. Freestyle seems to work only very specific muscles and joints and tendense and does not necessarly give a ballanced exercise. Now that I am doing other activities I have found that many of the aches and pains that I had been experiencing while kicking have stopped. I also have found that I have more indurance and strength. One other thing I think is very important and is often neglected is stretching. I find that if I stretch when I get warmed up it allows me a time to foccus and do some visualizations of moves, combos and fluidity. I am guessing that you just started, for the first time, doing a lot of one legged double dexterities ex:paradon, barrage...etc. If so, give your knee a break for a little while to let your muscles, tendens and ligaments catch up to the new motions. Forest Schrodt PS: I hope to see some of you in Eugene this Oct 24-25 for the Eugene Footbag Tournement. There won't be any freestyle comp. but there will be some great circle shred. So far Eli, possibly Teva Dave, Joe Marschall, myself and a number of other stylers are looking to go. >Steve Miskiewicz wrote: >I've got a bad problem. I use to be able to kick for hours on end but now I am having problems. One day I was kicking and I I started to have a pain in my right knee. I didn't think anything of it but then it happened again the next time I kicked. I has happened about four time now. It's really making me mad because I can't kick for more than an hour at a time. Could someone help me? if i'm having these problems at 16 what is it going to be like at 30????? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 9 06:31:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA21328 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:31:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send1e.yahoomail.com (send1e.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA25241 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:18:07 -0700 Message-ID: <19981009051514.9389.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.191.218] by send1e; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 22:15:14 PDT Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:15:14 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] the NUCLEAR set/ what is in a name To: scalf@utdallas.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Stylers, Ian Dubman wrote: > > But, are you calling "flux" an "atomic torque"(rev. miraging osis)?? No, siree. Atomic Torque is reverse miraging miraging osis= it's like doing an atomsmasher but *bail* to osis instead of toe- hardly a bail :) . I've never done it, but Adrian Dick has. And no, Derric, I have not done it pdox either- I've had it on my heal, but can't get the crank on the torque (yet); "nuclear smasher" is hard enough, D wrote: > I guess a nuclear flux would be a paradox reverse > miraging rev miraging osis. Wow... Ditto on the wow, I'd never thought of that. D, you'll see me hit that this weekend in Austin (he says arrogantly) or look like a fool trying. Damn... "Nuclear Flux"...Damn.... And a word on the name and purpose of 'nuclear'. I don't condone nor support nuclear testing; I feel it has no business on this planet, for one reason, it serves few purposes other than to destroy; in a world of war we should be striving for peace! So I thought 'nuclear SMASHER' and 'nuclear BEATER' would be good names to support such beliefs as my own; plus it gives the tricks a sense of power and urgency. Nothing personally against Ian, for I do not know thee, nor can I hold contempt for someone whose work disagrees with my beliefs; we must feel compassion and love for our opponents, so that we can better understand opposing views and use that understanding as a source of knowledge and strength in our battle. Like I said, Ian, you aren't thine sworn enemy as far as I know: maybe you are on the safety department, like Homer Simpson. :-) Do you like doughnuts, too? :-) Peace, Monster Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 9 06:31:17 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA21334 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:31:17 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from gram (205-219-66-217.bayarea.net [205.219.66.217]) by baygate.bayarea.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA23197 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000401bdf343$ca0f4a40$d942dbcd@gram> Reply-To: "Jboy" From: "Jboy Gran" To: Subject: [freestyle] Re: Gyro Blur Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:15:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andrew McCargar wrote: >P.S. will someone please explain gyro blur, I just cannot picture how to >get that second dex. It all has to do with the first dex. Try setting the bag with a quick flick of your ankle and then whipping your head & body around while lifting the first leg over, ending in a stomp sounding very similar to the normal blurry set stomp. Then worry about the second dex just like a normal blur. Jboy From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 9 20:09:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA30443 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:09:20 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from webster.lcc.ctc.edu (lcc.ctc.edu [134.39.132.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03223 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:32:59 -0700 Received: from lab2.ctc.edu (134.39.132.56) by webster.lcc.ctc.edu (WORLDMAIL 1.3.166) for freestyle@footbag.org; 9 Oct 1998 11:35:47 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981009113724.006a03a0@lcc.ctc.edu> X-Sender: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 11:37:24 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: [freestyle] trippless? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Aloha Stylers, wuz up? I have a question. Now I know that there are a few people striving for triplessness this year like the Enlightener and myself. I was just curious about who else has this goal in mind. I think all of the B.A.P. has the potential to achieve this but I don't know who wants to. It's definately a lot of work. Do you think that if ( or when ) some of the Posse did this that it would push others to achieve this or would it discourage them. I would love to hear everybodys view on this. I've talked to some people ( posse and non-posse) and I've gotten mixed emotions. I think that if triplessness is going to be a standard this year we sure make sure everybody knows about it before hand so they have a chance to train this year. Don't think that I'm not involving non-posse members in this conversation either. A lot of people are on the verge and will be in soon anyway. By the way if you're somebody I mailed earlier (Davidson, Eli) I don't have access to a computer on weekends so I will talk to you on Monday. I will talk to everybody later and SHRED HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!! "Torch" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 9 20:44:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA06229 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:44:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f192.hotmail.com [207.82.251.81]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA30503 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:52:26 -0700 Received: (qmail 7852 invoked by uid 0); 9 Oct 1998 14:51:56 -0000 Message-ID: <19981009145156.7851.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 198.189.235.187 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 09 Oct 1998 07:51:56 PDT X-Originating-IP: [198.189.235.187] From: "Ryan Sanders" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Help on moves Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 07:51:56 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello out there, I need some tips on how to do gyro double leg over, scorpion's tail and mobius. I have all the components to each of the moves but I've been unable to hit those three moves. Can some one explain what the set is to look like, the motion I'm to have, ect... Ryan Sanders ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 9 20:44:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA06230 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:44:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA30427 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:34:49 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.24] (d24.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.24]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA18278; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:34:39 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <361D39B1.7783@utdallas.edu> References: Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:28:10 -0600 To: scalf@utdallas.edu, Ian Dubman From: Enlightener Subject: Re: [freestyle] the NUCLEAR set Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! >What Eli was calling 'nuclear' was the *paradox* rev miraging set. So, >a paradox flux (Eric Burgess might want to talk about this move) would >be a nuclear osis. I guess a nuclear flux would be a paradox reverse >miraging flux. Wow. I just thought about that move and it made my knee >hurt. Eli, you've hit 'nuclear' torque, right? How about nuclear >flux? Just out of curiosity, has anyone hit nuclear reverse mirage, or >I guess you could call it pdx. rev. miraging rev. mirage. What is >that? A paradox scrambled eggbeater? Just some thoughts... I've hit Symposium Nuclear (paradox symposium reverse mirage) with thanks to Sean Wingert for prodding me into trying it over and over until I hit it clean a couple of times. And paradox reverse miraging torque (Nuclear Torque, or Nuclear Osis depends on how you look at it.) Hmmm... See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Oct 10 03:17:48 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA19435 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 03:17:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dept.english.upenn.edu (DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU [130.91.75.246]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07906 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:21:14 -0700 Received: (from sunilj@localhost) by dept.english.upenn.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) id SAA73268; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:22:28 -0400 From: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani) Message-Id: <199810092222.SAA73268@dept.english.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Trip To Melbourne/Sydney To: westwind@idirect.com (Rob Howe) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <01BDF3CF.1480B100@fatenet14.idirect.com> from "Rob Howe" at Oct 9, 98 09:48:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org According to Rob Howe: > > what's up guys, > >I will be heading 'down under' this dec/jan. and >I was wondering about the footbag scene down in Melbourne? >I was also wondering if there is any footbag merchandise I might keep my >eyes out for(shoes, bags, videos, etc)? > > Anyway I'd really like to shred with some experienced shredders as >I am still a beginner so if you live in that region give me a shout. The footbag scene in Melbourne is blossiming rapidly under the excellent leadership of the one and only LYNTON STEPHENS. He is a super friendly very energetic kid who is a great freestyler. (Actually, he does need a pair of Rod Lavers if you care to bring a new pair with you... I am most positive he would compensate you for your troubles.). He goes to the Melbourne institute of technology, but I believe they have their summer vacation around Dec/Jan, so try to get in touch with him before you go... you can get his info off of the club listings at www.footbag.org. While I was in Melbourne this past May, I met up with a bunch of other "keen" shredders. (Shout out to Brendan and Chris on the list). Lynton is a master of double dex toe moves and has been known to foray into guiltfree territory at times. In terms of bags/vids/equip... not mush to be found in Oz... much better to bring your own stuff there (if you can bring extra bags I am sure you could sell them there). I did not find any other freestylers in Sydney, but there are people in Brisbane and Perth, if you are planning to go there. Let me know if you need their info. Also, let me know if you need any other info for your trip...I'd be glad to assist. Rob, where are you from anyways? Sunil From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Oct 10 03:17:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA19429 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 03:17:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from vcn.bc.ca (marigold@opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07645 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:57:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA12758; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:55:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Verhoef Anne To: Ryan Sanders cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Help on moves In-Reply-To: <19981009145156.7851.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Ryan Sanders wrote: > I need some tips on how to do gyro double leg over, scorpion's tail and > mobius. I have all the components to each of the moves but I've been > unable to hit those three moves. Can some one explain what the set is to > look like, the motion I'm to have, ect... Make sure you've mastered all the essentials behind these moves: Gyro DBL: gyro mirage (has to be really smooth) and the "all in one" double legover(which has to be tight) Scorpion's Tail: Spinning butterfly, paradon, barfly Mobius: Torque, spinning osis, and a very *accurate* gyro set If you have all of these perfect, the moves should come just from muscle memory. For example, scorpion's tail is like a spinning butterfly and a barfly combined. So your double dex's must have speed and accuracy. Hope that helps, Adrian V. -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Oct 10 03:18:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA19456 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 03:18:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA08314 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:49:46 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id SAA09654; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:56:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] the NUCLEAR set In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Enlightener quoth: > I've hit Symposium Nuclear (paradox symposium reverse mirage) with thanks > to Sean Wingert for prodding me into trying it over and over until I hit it > clean a couple of times. And paradox reverse miraging torque (Nuclear > Torque, or Nuclear Osis depends on how you look at it.) Makes me happy that someone else hits 'flail'- ps rev mirage. Been hitting that since worlds at portland- right about the time I nailed symposium blizzard (bam bam bam, Eli). Kinda easy to tweak the ankle on those though. I've also hit nuclear osis (pdox flux) several times but don't want to get anywhere near that nuclear flux until I hit bubba-osis, or flux-from-clipper. That's a nasty back torquer all its own. I've been prematurely calling it 'wrench'. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Oct 10 03:18:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA19469 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 03:18:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA10409 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:30:44 -0700 Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA02621 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 22:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newgrimnet-23.idirect.com (newgrimnet-23.idirect.com [207.136.100.23]) by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA29477 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 22:30:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by newgrimnet-23.idirect.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BDF48F.50E92800@newgrimnet-23.idirect.com>; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:48:21 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDF48F.50E92800@newgrimnet-23.idirect.com> From: Rob Howe To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Lavers in the States Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:48:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id CAA10663 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Just wondering if the shoe stores in the states carry lavers? I will be making a stop over in chicago and I was hoping to pick-up 1 or 2 pairs while I was waiting for my flight. If anyone in the chicago region could let me know I'd appreicate it. -Rob "The kid from ontario" Howe From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Oct 10 13:34:50 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id NAA01071 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 13:34:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA15327 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 05:59:06 -0700 Received: from sara (nyc-ny70-25.ix.netcom.com [209.109.226.153]) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA15461 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:05:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981010085740.00817d00@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu> X-Sender: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:57:40 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney Subject: Re: [freestyle] the NUCLEAR set In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19981010002810.007cb5c0@pop.mindspring.com> References: <361D39B1.7783@utdallas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:28 AM 10/10/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 11:55 PM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote: > Didn't want to say this in front of everyone, but by my calculation a pdx >rev miraging rev mirage is indeed a pdx *scrambled* eggbeater. A pdox >eggbeater is a pdx rev miraging legover. Eh? Gee, Josh, I know you're really smart but it seems ( and not for the first time ) that you've made an error!! Okay. Pdox omelette. I know. Scrambled eggbeater has the 2nd dex reversed. A reverse-miraging atw. Screw the moves list with it's high and mightyness. And for you notation heads: t.op out.op in.sm t. JP oppression comes in many forms From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Oct 10 13:34:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id NAA01077 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 13:34:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11315 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:59:45 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id AAA12870; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:06:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:06:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Total Frustration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I'm 15 and have been doing footbag hardcore for only bout a month or two. And > I'm having a heck of a time getting the hang of it. I was just kinda curious > when some of you older guys started and how long it took you to get halfway > decent and what you did to get there? That's about it. Mind your balance. Shoulders open to the bag, eyes on it. Take your time. Practice setting straight up. Everything on both sides. Watch video. Introspect. Smile. How good is halfway decent? It's all relative to how good you want to be. Do you want to be really good? What is really good to you? Flowing combos, hard tricks, or just all-out-looking-good? Will practicing a few hours a day make you the kind of player you want to be? Do you want to slice throught the air with an audible hum, or are you content to be smooth and simple? So many people (myself included) feel that difficulty=worth. This is the way the sport has seemingly gone since I have been learning it. Careful! this is more addictive than anything else you have ever done in your life. I practiced like a fiend until I couldn't stand up, then caught my breath and kept practicing. It's still frustrating but nevertheless, all fun from kick #1. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Oct 11 01:15:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA00287 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:15:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f76.hotmail.com [207.82.250.182]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA20123 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:26:05 -0700 Received: (qmail 5361 invoked by uid 0); 10 Oct 1998 21:25:34 -0000 Message-ID: <19981010212534.5360.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 129.37.50.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:25:34 PDT X-Originating-IP: [129.37.50.172] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] intermediate level Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:25:34 EDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was wondering what types of moves that the kickers in an intermediate division hit at a competition? Anyone have some video or descriptions of them? thanks Steve Miskiewicz ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Oct 11 01:15:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA00293 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:15:26 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Allman144@aol.com Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id IWJAa03785 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 19:55:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3b676f0c.361ff3e9@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 19:55:21 EDT To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] JP Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 190 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 10/10/98 7:12:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-freestyle- digest@majordomo.footbag.org writes: << Gee, Josh, I know you're really smart but it seems ( and not for the first time ) that you've made an error!! >> Okay okay okay okay! Settle down! Geez! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Oct 11 01:15:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA00313 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:15:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail2.cityweb.de (mail2.cityweb.de [193.189.224.210]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21148 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 16:25:06 -0700 Received: from master (dsd8-m99-201.pool.cww.de [195.71.99.201]) by mail2.cityweb.de (8.9.1/8.9.1/powered by Telemedia) with SMTP id BAA28404 for ; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:25:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000d01bdf4a4$9c493820$c96347c3@master> From: "Speedster" To: Subject: [freestyle] I want to make Footbag more popular in Germany... Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:05:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01BDF489.4A392D80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BDF489.4A392D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi I'm one of the only german footbag players. There are only some people = in Berlin and a group in Bavaria, who enjoy themselves in hackin'. Now = were looking for some literature or other media, to improve our = knowledge. Do you know any titles, and where to get them? I think = Footbag must become more popular in germany! I'd like to found a new club, with the aim to promote Footbag and = organize some challanges (firstable smaller events, to see how many = players there are) and maybe a general german Footbag club, if there = isn't any at this time. If this already exists, then i'd like to get contact. So, see what we = could do to realize this idea. Please contact me... Thx ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BDF489.4A392D80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi
 
I'm one of the only german footbag = players.=20 There are only some people in Berlin and a group in Bavaria, who enjoy=20 themselves in hackin'. Now were looking for some literature or other = media, to=20 improve our knowledge. Do you know any titles, and where to get them? I = think=20 Footbag must become more popular in germany!
 
I'd like to found a new club, with = the aim to=20 promote Footbag and organize some challanges (firstable smaller events, = to see=20 how many players there are) and maybe a general german Footbag club, if = there=20 isn't any at this time.
 
If this already exists, then i'd = like to get=20 contact. So, see what we could do to realize this idea.
 
Please contact me...
Thx
------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BDF489.4A392D80-- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Oct 11 04:55:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA27197 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 04:55:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Resent-From: reiddm@magma.ca Received: from dave (Administrators@localhost) by homer.tomahawktech.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA00231 for ; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 00:26:00 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 00:25:58 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199810110426.AAA00231@homer.tomahawktech.com> From: "Dave Reid" To: Subject: RE: [freestyle] Frustration Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 00:32:06 -0400 Message-ID: <000201bdf4d0$19d66da0$873fbfce@dave> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sorry for the length of this message... > -----Original Message----- > when some of you older guys started and how long it took you to > get halfway > decent and what you did to get there? That's about it. Well, I'm not an "older guy", but I certainly know how you feel. I'll give you my brief history and maybe it will inspire you... (hopefully this will be somewhat interesting to the group... I know you were all wearing newbie shoes at one time) I've been a very casual player for a few years now, totally unaware of the existance of "freestyle" until last year. Last year, I hit my first toe stall. A short time later, I ordered some lavers and some bags (for myself and friends). I laced up my lavers according to directions, and started trying toe stalls again. It was so foolishly easy to catch the bag on my toe that I wanted to throw the lavers in the garbage. I didn't... I just returned the lacing to normal and kept kicking. Winter soon came and everything went into storage :) This year, a series of things inspired me. I had planned to make the trek to Montreal to see what "the crazy people" did in competitions (to that point, the only thing I knew about freestyle was "the crazy move list"). I got out my stuff and tried to get my buddies to practice at every opportunity. "We don't want to look like idiots when we go to The Worlds!", I said. We started trying new moves at this point, and we found that a) Around the Worlds were totally impossible b) Legovers were totally impossible c) Mirages were worse d) Dragonfly kicks were easy! (hey, something had to be different) Then came our trip to the Worlds... it was an education, to say the least. I returned from that trip truly inspired. I made the decision that I was going to practice footbag more often, and more seriously. I wanted to be able to do at least SOME moves. The next level of addiction arrived when I figured out how to do a Legover. I showed my buddies how to do legovers, and it was awesome. The same day, I tried and tried until I got an Around the World. I was in heaven. I guess this emphasizes the need to have small short-term goals. After Legovers, I set my sights on the frightening Mirage. It took me several hundred tries before I thought I knew the right motion. Many weeks went by, with me practicing about two or three times a week. I discovered a bit of a trick in the motion of the hips that suddenly made Mirages easy (set, twist, hop sideways). I was back in heaven, because this trick let me do Mirages with frequent success on both sides. My current goal is Clippers. I know this is the key to many more moves. I have been practicing it for two weeks, using the awesome instructions that Derric posted. Two nights ago, I was practicing away, and I suddenly discovered how Mirages are REALLY done :). I was just pitching the bag back and forth from toe to toe, and I wondered if I could possibly throw my leg around one of those low sets. I found not only that I COULD, but it was EASY! So that's where I am today. Every time I practice, I drop the bag a thousand times. I try to do Clippers, and I drop, drop, drop, fall over, almost catch, fall over again, drop, drop, drop, drop, catch... no wait it dropped, etc... THEN, I catch one and it's all worth while. The morals of this story: a) it is not an easy process - practice practice practice! b) you need small victories to keep you inspired - celebrate! c) every time you try a move, drop or not, you get better at the motion, your muscles strengthen, and your balance improves - keep trying! d) at the age of 15, you have LOTS of time to learn - be patient! (you'll be doing the double back-flipping paradox reverse atomic pretzel be the time you are my age) This is a great sport. Stick with it! Seeya in Chicago! Cheers, Dave R. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Oct 11 14:09:54 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA24684 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:09:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (root@tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA25545 for ; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 02:40:06 -0700 Received: from omen (p23-tnt-ak-1.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.18.111.23]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA10512 for ; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 22:39:51 +1300 Message-ID: <001601bdf4fb$476c7220$07050505@omen> From: "omen" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] trippless? Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 22:41:08 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >about who else has this goal in mind. I think all of the B.A.P. has the >potential to achieve this but I don't know who wants to. It's definately a >lot of work. Do you think that if ( or when ) some of the Posse did this >that it would push others to achieve this or would it discourage them. I >would love to hear everybodys view on this. I've talked to some people ( here's my view on this... the bap must be an elite small group of incredibly hein shredders. if they are not then there is no point having them. i think it would be a damn cool idea if all of the bap went tripless, infact it should almost be a prerequisite, the bap must be the best so that we intermediate shredders have something to guide us and show us that paradox back flipping tripple around the world leg beater is possible :) simply put, the bap are role models, the better they get the better everyone gets, the bap push the limits and will always, therefore go tripless and the rest of us will follow damian A.F.F.C co-managing director From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 02:46:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA07625 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 02:46:13 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: rapidhavok@juno.com Received: from m14.boston.juno.com (m14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.193]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29786 for ; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:26:30 -0700 Received: (from rapidhavok@juno.com) by m14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DRBAJWNT; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 16:26:19 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 16:25:36 +0000 Subject: [freestyle] Double around the world Message-ID: <19981010.162536.11078.0.RapidHavok@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-5 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org WOO HOO!!!!! I finally hit a double around the world!!! I just had to come on and tell everybody...I was so excited *S* Now on to tripples ha ha...It's all about little accomplishments and feelin good, right now I'm feelin great...I'm gonna go practice, talk to ya all later. Jason Donnelly T.N.W. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 02:46:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA07631 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 02:46:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA31287 for ; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 17:13:42 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id UAA02149; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:20:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] tripless Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/REPORT; REPORT-TYPE=delivery-status; BOUNDARY="UAA02111.908151313/hejira.hunter.cuny.edu" Content-ID: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --UAA02111.908151313/hejira.hunter.cuny.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: --UAA02111.908151313/hejira.hunter.cuny.edu Content-Type: MESSAGE/DELIVERY-STATUS Content-ID: Reporting-MTA: dns; hejira.hunter.cuny.edu Arrival-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Final-Recipient: RFC822; frreestyle@footbag.org Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; market.net Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 ... User unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:15:12 -0400 (EDT) --UAA02111.908151313/hejira.hunter.cuny.edu Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: Return-Path: Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id UAA02109; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:15:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney To: frreestyle@footbag.org Subject: tripless In-Reply-To: <001601bdf4fb$476c7220$07050505@omen> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > i think it would be a damn cool idea if all of the bap went tripless, infact > it > should almost be a prerequisite, the bap must be the best They already are. Going three-free is a specific style of play, and kinda limiting. I can do strings like that, but they're all really short- in fact if the whole posse *had* to do that you wouldn't see very many long strings for several months. Fact of the matter is that many posse-ites play lots of really hard strings, but will use a three to catch their breath, or to take a moment in their minds to decide what to do next. > so that we > intermediate shredders have something to guide us and show us that > paradox back flipping tripple around the world leg beater is possible :) Who's going to do atom-smasher, toe blur, toe blizzard, double mirage, double around the world, toe drifter to bubba-set eggbeater? Face it. There are some hard moves that have nothing to do with four adds. That is one bad string. Need I remind you of the lack of accuracy the add system? > simply put, the bap are role models, the better they get the better everyone > gets, the bap push the limits and will always, therefore go tripless and > the rest of us will follow Players will push themselves at their own paces. While certain restrictions allow for a push in difficulty, too much limits players. I can understand taking the 'easy bail' moves out- namely butterfly osis paradox mirage- but you can't tell me symposium mirage and spinning dragonfly are so easy they'd be better off without them. JP oppression comes in many forms --UAA02111.908151313/hejira.hunter.cuny.edu-- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 11:48:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id LAA30235 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:48:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pigeon.vut.edu.au (pigeon.vut.edu.AU [140.159.30.12]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA06146 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 03:51:59 -0700 Received: from village.vut.edu.au (erskine@[140.159.18.250]) by pigeon.vut.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA23433 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:56:56 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (erskine@localhost) by village.vut.edu.au (8.9.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA02344 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:56:49 +1000 Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:56:49 +1000 (EST) From: ERSKINE Brendan Reply-To: ERSKINE Brendan To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Consecutive records Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Recently an e-mail was sent titled consecutive hein, outlining a few freestyle records. As expected, most of the records were involving clipper stalls. I am a great advocate of toe dexterities therefore i'm quite interested in knowing the records for the following moves; double leg over, eggbeater, smear, fairy mirage, out-in double around the world and toe barrage. Furthermore, i witnessed my fellow Melbourne freestyler (Lynton Stephens) hit a fairy symposium eggbeater. I'm wondering has this ever been hit and does it have a name. Brendan Erskine From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 11:49:22 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id LAA30248 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:49:22 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA06337 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 04:29:19 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA04555 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 06:29:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ppp50.atext.com(206.66.71.50) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma004540; Mon Oct 12 06:28:47 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 06:29:08 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] MERKON Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org MERKON! Steve P.S. Derric hit a beautiful "Farrakan" yesterday at the Texas State championships -- fairie-merkon (fairie-set spinning legover). :-) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 11:49:25 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id LAA30261 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:49:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (root@tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA06296 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 04:26:46 -0700 Received: from omen (p36-tnt-ak-1.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.18.111.36]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA12991 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 00:26:42 +1300 Message-ID: <003501bdf5d3$602e6600$07050505@omen> From: "omen" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] tripless Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 00:28:02 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Who's going to do atom-smasher, toe blur, toe blizzard, double mirage, > uble around the world, toe drifter to bubba-set eggbeater? Face it. > ere are some hard moves that have nothing to do with four adds. > That is one bad string. > Need I remind you of the lack of accuracy the add system? no you don't :) i know there are a lot of cool 3 adders, one of my favourites is double switch over, infact i hold the consectutive record afaik :), i agree with u josh that there are some damn fine 3 adders and it would be a shame to lose em, i know that atom smasher is a billion times harder than a swirl and yet with the add system they are equal points, so we don't need to go there :) > Players will push themselves at their own paces. While certain > restrictions allow for a push in difficulty, too much limits players. I > can understand taking the 'easy bail' moves out- namely butterfly osis > paradox mirage- but you can't tell me symposium mirage and spinning > dragonfly are so easy they'd be better off without them. i'm not saying yank the moves and forget em, i merely pointing out that upping the anty to push the limits may be the option for some players, while other players can string together some lower add combos that are sweeeeeet too, namely myself :), take your gimpy eclipse, that's a sweet move which you have dialed, i'd hate to see that pup disapear :) damian general god-like shredder from the A.F.F.C. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 17:23:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA26171 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:23:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f49.hotmail.com [207.82.250.60]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA08309 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:02:56 -0700 Received: (qmail 1897 invoked by uid 0); 12 Oct 1998 15:02:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19981012150224.1896.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.196.69.59 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:02:24 PDT X-Originating-IP: [204.196.69.59] From: "joey robichaux" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] adds? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:02:24 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hello all, i was wondering about the scoring of the add system. a toe set to a clipper would be 2 adds. i know that the set would not be counted in the total for that move but is its value not scored at all. like if you do a series of 4 toe stalls what would this be worth 1 or 4 total adds. i'm confused, please help. stay hackin, tenx20 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 17:23:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA26177 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:23:07 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09277 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:45:59 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA19579; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:45:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx46-26.ix.netcom.com(198.211.44.154) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma019486; Mon Oct 12 11:43:42 1998 Message-ID: <36223341.768F@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:50:09 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Miskiewicz CC: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] intermediate level References: <19981010212534.5360.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve Miskiewicz wrote: > > I was wondering what types of moves that the kickers in an intermediate > division hit at a competition? Anyone have some video or descriptions of > them? Really, it depends on the tournament. At Western Regionals or Worlds, the intermediate competition can be pretty rough. I would say that the top intermediates at those tournaments can go guiltless pretty easily. But, if you are talking about most tournaments, a good intermediate level of shred would be a lot of twos and many of the easier threes - butterfly, osis, etc. The guy that won intermediate at last weekends Texas State Footbag Championships was Brandon Finger. He has been kicking for about a year and can pull off smear, whirl, pixie butterfly, and the occasional legbeater and eggbeater. Tuan and Tu Vu sold a video a few years back called "'96 Worlds Style". It had all of the routines (intermediate, pro, doubles, women's). I'm sure he could get you a copy if you get in touch with him. Keep in mind that this video is two years old. With the sport advancing as much as it has, those routines aren't on the level of most modern routines. Still, the tape is good to get ideas for things to try in a routine. Get it and enjoy. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 19:35:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA03413 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:35:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10367 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:55:43 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA29033; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:54:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx46-26.ix.netcom.com(198.211.44.154) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma028883; Mon Oct 12 12:53:46 1998 Message-ID: <362243A3.7BD8@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:00:03 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ERSKINE Brendan CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Consecutive records References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ERSKINE Brendan wrote: > > I am a great advocate of toe dexterities therefore i'm > quite interested in knowing the records for the following moves; > Well. I know that I don't hold any records on these moves, but I'll let you know what my bests are smear (5 on strong side, 2 on weak) fairy mirage (2 one side only) I'm sure Daryl Genz has hit 10+ smears on both sides. How about you, Aaron? Aaron de Glanville (did I spell this right) can hit just about any double dex from toe set, so hopefully he can let us know some of these records. I am pretty interrested myself. > Furthermore, i witnessed my fellow Melbourne freestyler (Lynton Stephens) > hit a fairy symposium eggbeater. I'm wondering has this ever been hit and > does it have a name. Wow. You mean a fairy set followed by a symposium eggbeater? Wow. I've heard symposium eggbeater called a 'wifebeater', so I guess you could call this beast of a triple dex move a fairy wifebeater. Hell, if he's hitting that, he can call it whatever he wants. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 19:35:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA03419 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:35:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10452 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:01:20 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA00091; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:00:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx46-26.ix.netcom.com(198.211.44.154) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma029974; Mon Oct 12 13:00:16 1998 Message-ID: <3622452A.133A@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:06:34 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: joey robichaux CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds? References: <19981012150224.1896.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org joey robichaux wrote: > > hello all, > > i was wondering about the scoring of the add system. a toe set to a > clipper would be 2 adds. i know that the set would not be counted in the > total for that move but is its value not scored at all. like if you do a > series of 4 toe stalls what would this be worth 1 or 4 total adds. i'm > confused, please help. > A move is defined as being between two contacts. So, 4 consecutive toe stalls would be 4 consecutive 1 add moves. A clipper stall is worth 2 adds (cross body and delay). So, 4 consecutive clipper stalls would be 4 consecutive 2 add moves. A clipper stall to a toe stall would be a two add move to a one add move. Really, it isn't that hard if you remember that a move begins when the bag is set in the air and ends when you contact it again. Not too hard, huh? -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 19:35:27 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA03425 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:35:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10021 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:23:38 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA24933; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:23:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx46-26.ix.netcom.com(198.211.44.154) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma024874; Mon Oct 12 12:22:44 1998 Message-ID: <36223C60.25FE@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:29:04 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Speedster CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] I want to make Footbag more popular in Germany... References: <000d01bdf4a4$9c493820$c96347c3@master> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Speedster wrote: > > Hi > > I'm one of the only german footbag players. There are only some people > in Berlin and a group in Bavaria, who enjoy themselves in hackin'. Now > were looking for some literature or other media, to improve our > knowledge. Do you know any titles, and where to get them? I think > Footbag must become more popular in germany! > It is good that you want to spread the word about this sport. Yes, there is literature... most of it is on line at http://www.footbag.org >From this site, you can get club listinngs to find other people somewhat close to you... I know Europe is big, but if Steve and Chad can go from California to Texas, you can go visit the boys in Finland. Find thier club listing on footbag.org and get in touch with them. They can definately show you how to promote the sport. Last I heard, they had over 1000 members (can this be right?) They have the best European tournaments which actually count as a qualifying tournament to go to Worlds. That is the way the sport should be played. Put your club on the club listing, and you could find that there are people really close by that want to kick with you. You'll never know until you get on that list. Also on footbag.org, you can find the upcoming events. Go to a tournament. At most tournaments, you can get copies of the IFAB rulebooks which cover in total detail all of the rules of footbag sports. If you are going to do it, you might as well do it legally, right? Also at tournaments, you will meet people that can teach you better than any book or video. And, still on footbag.org, you can find the most important thing of all - the moves list. This list has most of the moves known to man with a pretty good description - if not video demonstration - for each. Just by reading over the list, you'll get many many new ideas. I have told myself over and over that I'm going to do all of the 2 add moves on the list, but there are so many... With the three add moves, it is even more insane. 4's and 5's and 6's and even some 7's are all on there. When you read over the list, keep in mind that someone has hit each of those moves -however impossible it may seem. And, for other things on the intenet, go to http://worldfootbag.com This is the World Footbag Association's web page. They are the main body for the promotion of footbag. You can buy stuff from them. Get a great video called "Tricks of the Trade". It is a must for ALL freestylers. If you want to learn, you can't until you get this tape. Also, you can buy the right equipment. Have you ever played golf with a ping pong ball and a stick? Have you ever played footbag with combat boots, jeans, and an original Hacky Sack? There is no difference there. To get good, you need (1) Shorts, (2) Adidas Rod Laver tennis shoes (you can get those from the WFA), and (3) a good footbag. Get a FACILE bag from the WFA. They have a few different patterns. Not to start anything, but the ones I would reccommend are the Juice, the Stork, or the Delta. Anything under 20 panels or over 40 panels won't break in right (in my opinion). And, one other thing to do is get a footbag magazine. The best one out right now is Kicker's Quarterly. I got a subscription at Worlds, so I don't really know how you can get one now... But, it is worth your time. I think a one year subcription is only around $10. It might be more since you are overseas... look into it. Ask on the list how to get a subcription to a footbag magazine. The right people will see the question and respond. > I'd like to found a new club, with the aim to promote Footbag and > organize some challanges (firstable smaller events, to see how many > players there are) and maybe a general german Footbag club, if there > isn't any at this time. Do it! Go to http://footbag.org/clubs and put your club on there. I met a guy that lives down the street from me on that list. He was the only person in his "club", but at least I found out about him and we got together. Footbag is a growing sport. Mainly, it is because of the internet. Never be an ass about kicking. If someone shows interest, it is your DUTY to help them learn. There are some wackos that don't remember that they got started because someone was kind enough to help them out. This sport is about meeting people, having fun, and learning new stuff. Don't ever forget it. Good luck getting people involved. I have found that it is easiest to get people into it from the beginning. So, start recruiting now. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 19:35:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA03452 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:35:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from webster.lcc.ctc.edu (lcc.ctc.edu [134.39.132.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10075 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:24:36 -0700 Received: from lab2.ctc.edu (134.39.132.44) by webster.lcc.ctc.edu (WORLDMAIL 1.3.166) for freestyle@footbag.org; 12 Oct 1998 10:27:09 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981012102844.00696d10@lcc.ctc.edu> X-Sender: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:28:44 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: [freestyle] new move Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What it iz? You know what would be hein? A big apple with the opposite dex. So instead of a symposium mobius, it would be a symposium gyro reverse torque. Has anybody ever hit that. I got close but no cigar. Another cool move would be a gyro fog. Left foot clip. gyro set, left out dex, symposium right foot out dex, left in dex, left toe stall. Heh, heh. Has anybody hit these? If you have you're totally hein. "Torch" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 19:37:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA03466 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:37:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f172.hotmail.com [207.82.251.58]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA11018 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:25:22 -0700 Received: (qmail 2342 invoked by uid 0); 12 Oct 1998 18:24:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19981012182451.2341.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.167.216.118 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:24:51 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.167.216.118] From: "Mark Denton" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] triplessness Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:24:51 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, I am responding to Damian's message in whic he says: >i think it would be a damn cool idea if all of the bap went >tripless, infact >it >should almost be a prerequisite I totally disagree. While going tripless is an incredible feat, it eliminates all of the cool three's that there has been so much arguement over regarding the add system(Atom Smasher, ect.). I think the BAP should be there to push the sport but pushing the sport does not mean barring creativity by limiting the number of moves you have to choose from just so you can go tripless. Making triplessness a prerequisite for the BAP is like saying if you want to become a member you also have to become narrow minded. Just my thoughts. Mark ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 19:41:50 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA03516 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:41:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mcfs.whowhere.com (mcfs.whowhere.com [209.1.236.44]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA12024 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:19:37 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by theglobe.com; Mon Oct 12 12:19:07 1998 To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:19:07 -0700 From: "Ian Dubman" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds? X-Sender-Ip: 128.206.234.105 Organization: E-Mail @ The Globe (http://www.globe-mail.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org -- >On Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:02:24 joey robichaux wrote: >like if you do a >series of 4 toe stalls what would this be worth 1 or 4 >total adds. tenx(I think that was the right name), A toe stall(delay) is one add. In fact, you will get an add for any delay whatsoever. So any number of them is merely that number of adds. In other words, 3 toe stalls=3 adds, 4=4, etc. Though others may disagree with me, I would reccommend not worrying a whole lot about the add values of these moves, yet. Just get them down(both sides of course), and once you have a good base then consider the add values and ways you might combine these moves to get a higher add ratio(if that is what you are looking for). Later, Ian NEO-MUFF (we are just not quite there yet) "Free web-based email available now at http://www.theglobe.com" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 21:58:22 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA05385 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:58:22 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA12682 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:14:25 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0Q00G01DN3FK@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:16:15 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:16:15 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Rebel Alliance Footbag Open Highlight In-reply-to: To: Magically Delicious Josh Penney Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Magically Delicious Josh Penney wrote: > All I wanted to say was: > Peter Irish: > blurry whirl to big apple to paradox whirl- What's a Big Apple? Besides that hunk of buildings in the middle of the water just east of the toxic waste. BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 21:58:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA05392 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:58:26 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f115.hotmail.com [207.82.250.165]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA12554 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:01:23 -0700 Received: (qmail 16674 invoked by uid 0); 12 Oct 1998 20:00:52 -0000 Message-ID: <19981012200052.16673.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 198.189.236.81 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:00:52 PDT X-Originating-IP: [198.189.236.81] From: "Ryan Sanders" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] B.A.P. going tripless Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:00:52 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org My thoughts on the subject of B.A.P. going tripless is as fallows: >From what I hear the big add posse was created to push freestyle to a new level. As far as I see it tripless is a new level. I don't see a problem of tripless being a prerequisite but that does not mean that whenever B.A.P. plays they have to go tripless. What I mean is that every B.A.P prospect should have a few tripless strings. What's all this whinnying about loosing toe moves in tripless runs. There is a whole slew of symposium toe-to-toe moves. Ryan Sanders P.S. Change is good. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 21:59:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA05424 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:59:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA12803 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:26:11 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA20046; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:25:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx46-26.ix.netcom.com(198.211.44.154) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma019980; Mon Oct 12 15:24:49 1998 Message-ID: <3622670F.45F7@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:31:11 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ian Dubman CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ian Dubman wrote: > > > -- > > tenx(I think that was the right name), > A toe stall(delay) is one add. In fact, you will get an add for any delay whatsoever. So any number of them is merely that number of adds. In other words, 3 toe stalls=3 adds, 4=4, etc. Beware. If you start thinking of adds in this way, you will think you are hitting a 4 add move with just 4 toe stalls. Not the case... You will hit a 4 add string with 4 toe stalls. That means 4 moves. A total of 4 adds. An add ratio of one add per move. If you do 2 clippers and 2 toe stalls, that is a 6 add *string* with an add ratio of 1.5 adds per move. See what I'm saying here? Don't worry about the total number of adds in a string. That will come with time. First, you need to concentrate on linking two and three add moves. Try to get rid of all one add moves. This concept is called going "tiltless". "Tilt" moves are one add, so get rid of those and you are tiltless. Two add moves are guilt, so get rid of those, and you are "guiltless". Three add moves are trip, so get rid of those and you are "tripless". If you want to learn how to freestyle, start going tiltless. Link mirages, around the worlds, legovers, clipper stalls, pixies, fairies, etc. Then, you will be hooked. If you can do all of these basic two add moves, the three add moves will be easy. After that, fours... and fives (at least that is what people tell me). -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 21:59:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA05437 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:59:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0Q00E01ENHD2@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:38:06 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:38:05 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Frustration In-reply-to: To: SuperOwen@aol.com Cc: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 SuperOwen@aol.com wrote: > I'm 15 and have been doing footbag hardcore for only bout a month or two. And > I'm having a heck of a time getting the hang of it. I was just kinda curious > when some of you older guys started and how long it took you to get halfway > decent and what you did to get there? That's about it. I'm 24 and have been hardcore on freestyle for two and a half years, but had started playing hack and learning the kicking/control part about 13 years ago with a hacky sack brand, harder than diamond, pleather bag. I'm now hitting mostly 3's and 4's with the bailing 2 in between on occasion. Another friend of mine only first kicked a bag about a year and a couple months ago and is already hitting regular strings of 2's and 3's with the occasional baol to 1's. Frustration is part of the game, but there is ALWAYS bliss. Keep shreddin' and remember what you have accomplished while working out the new stuff. BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 22:00:02 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA05457 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:00:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13216 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:53:02 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0Q00I01FFQZM@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:55:01 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] trippless? In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19981009113724.006a03a0@lcc.ctc.edu> To: Ahren Gehrman Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I have a question. Now I know that there are a few people striving for > triplessness this year like the Enlightener and myself. Do you think that if ( or when ) some of the Posse did this > that it would push others to achieve this or would it discourage them. In a word YES! There are those who will be discouraged by that level of play and there will be those who are encouraged. But, will you try for tripless even if others don't? To keep the plus side up I think that positive encouragement and deflation of ego is necessary for anyone who is better than another at a sport or anything else in life. Go for tripless and encourage others to go with you. Then it becomes their decision to try or not. Personally I'm still trying for guiltless and I'm falling just short, but that won't stop me from eventually trying for tripless. GO MAN GO and hail to ye. BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 22:00:12 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA05470 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:00:12 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13324 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:56:52 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0Q00C01FM19A@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:58:49 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:58:49 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Lavers in the States In-reply-to: <01BDF48F.50E92800@newgrimnet-23.idirect.com> To: Rob Howe Cc: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sat, 10 Oct 1998, Rob Howe wrote: > Just wondering if the shoe stores in the states carry lavers? I will be making a stop over in chicago and I was hoping to pick-up 1 or 2 pairs while I was waiting for my flight. If anyone in the chicago region could let me know I'd appreicate it. > I'm not from Chicago but if they have a store called "Just for Feet" they should have them but will undoubtedly not know them by name. They'll be in the tennis section with the other Adidas. BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 22:00:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA05483 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:00:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA12785 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:25:30 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0Q00801E5U1F@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:27:30 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:27:30 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Rebel Alliance Footbag Open Highlight In-reply-to: <19981008103501.22780.qmail@hotmail.com> To: Andrew McCargar Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > In other news and smaller moves, I think I created something, butterfly > whirl. I got the idea from all the talk about reverce whirls and where > the dex is performed on the leg, so it works like this, cross over the > bag with the top of your leg like a butterfly, then after the first dex, > whirl the bag with the same leg. > something like, toe>opp out>same in>opp clip > This works because different parts of the leg do the different dexs. Im > thinking of calling it after thought, anyone seen this, done it? Isn't that an Atomic whirl? If so, Eli has hit it before. BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 22:00:41 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA05496 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:00:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA12706 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:16:53 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA18483; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:15:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx46-26.ix.netcom.com(198.211.44.154) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma018175; Mon Oct 12 15:14:17 1998 Message-ID: <36226496.72D4@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:20:38 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Denton CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] triplessness References: <19981012182451.2341.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mark Denton wrote: > > Hi, > > While going tripless is an incredible feat, it > eliminates all of the cool three's that there has been so much arguement > over regarding the add system(Atom Smasher, ect.). The thing that I'm wondering is this: When all of the original BAP people decided to go guiltless, was there any talk about the loss of cool two add moves (like clipper set reverse mirage, etc.)? Sure, there are many many three add moves that are very cool. Some are harder than many four add moves. But, in my opinion, clipper set reverse mirage, or smear kick are much harder than a lot of three add moves. Why don't we mourn the loss of the cool 2's? I think it is because now people look down on the easy threes. So, when the level of play gets to the point when the easy fours (ripwalk, torque, etc.) are looked down upon, who will remember the hard threes? The whole point of BAP is to be on the cutting edge. If you have to get rid of the hard threes before you can get rid of the easy fours, then, by all means, do it! On a side note... one three add move that should be four - just for the sake of its cool name - is Merkon. I never want to be a part of a cirle that won't let you say "I hit a MERKON". I think the BAP > should be there to push the sport but pushing the sport does not mean > barring creativity by limiting the number of moves you have to choose > from just so you can go tripless. Making triplessness a prerequisite > for the BAP is like saying if you want to become a member you also have > to become narrow minded. > Well, back in the day, they said you had to go guiltless to be in BAP. I'm sure there were some people that thought that was pretty harsh. I still need to enjoy my guiltless phase. I need to hit the harder threes and bail to butterfly and osis. One day, I hope that I will be able to bail to ripwalks, pixie butterflies, and torques. When that day comes, then I will think of myself as one of the best of the best. That is when I want to be in BAP. Until then, I know that I can't hang with Tuan, Ahren (sp?), Kyle, Ryan, Daryl, Dave, Chad, Eli, Scott, Rippen, and the rest of BAP. I say this: Go BAP!!!! Push that envelope! Show me what is possible. I'll be there soon enough :) -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 22:00:47 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA05509 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:00:47 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA12734 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:21:50 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0Q00G01DZHO2@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:23:41 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:23:41 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] OUT dexes In-reply-to: <361D2F69.40C2@utdallas.edu> To: Derric Scalf Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Derric Scalf wrote: > OK. I have a question about moves that involve out dexes. I can't seem > to do many of them and I want some tips. I can hit blur on demand, but > blizzrd eludes me. Even a simple pdx reverse mirage gives me grief. > What should I concentrate on to get this dex? I started hitting blizzard before blur because I had been practicing my double legovers from a clipper set for a long time (or blur set to leg-over). Eventually, if you do those long enough, you find there is time to go past the bag and catch on the opposite foot. It's not as comfortable sometimes but it can be just as easy or difficult as a blur. BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 22:00:50 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA05522 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:00:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13570 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:12:36 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0Q00D01GCC4N@clem.mscd.edu> for Freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:14:36 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:14:36 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] intermediate level In-reply-to: <19981010212534.5360.qmail@hotmail.com> To: Steve Miskiewicz Cc: Freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I was wondering what types of moves that the kickers in an intermediate > division hit at a competition? Anyone have some video or descriptions of > them? thanks I consider myself at the intermediate level and have been in one competition. I'd say in freeforall shred the players were hitting mostly 3's and 4's with bailing 2's, a 5 done by one person and that was a paradox legbeater. Keep in mind that during competition there is a whole lot of adrenaline involved and doing the harder moves can be even harder due to nervousness. In intermediate competition I've hit or seen hit, butterflies, osis' Smear, symposium mirage, double ATW and legover, ripwalk, torque, whirl, spinning osis, sole moves, and a zillion others. The most important thing is the drop. If you hit 3's and 4's, but drop every other or every third trick you'll most likely lose to the guy hitting 2's, 3's and one or two 4's who only dropped it once. Try going to a competition just to watch. The kicking is fun either way and you'll know first hand how it works. BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 22:01:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA05535 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:01:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13862 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:38:46 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0Q00N01HJYP6@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:40:46 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:40:46 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] trippless? In-reply-to: <001601bdf4fb$476c7220$07050505@omen> To: omen Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 11 Oct 1998, omen wrote: > the bap must be an elite small group of incredibly hein shredders. if they > are not then there is no point having them. AGREED > i think it would be a damn cool idea if all of the bap went tripless, AGREED infact > it should almost be a prerequisite, DISAGREE > intermediate shredders have something to guide us and show us that > paradox back flipping tripple around the world leg beater is possible :) Aren't you hitting this yet? > simply put, the bap are role models, the better they get the better everyone > gets, the bap push the limits and will always, therefore go tripless and > the rest of us will follow To a point you are correct, the BAP are role models. So is Bill Clinton. The better they get the better we get, sure. BUT, all of those players got into or formed the BAP without being tripless, as a matter of fact I've seen video of those players still setting some strings toe to clipper then go nuts. Would you then deny everyone else's right to enter the BAP at the same level? Also, do you kick out the existing BAP members who wind up unable to go Tripless? Maybe there's a new level beyond BAP. Maybe it's TAP (Tripless Add Posse). And then maybe there's a level beyond that. Some BAP members already string together only 5's for a limited run. All of this is my way of saying that BAP is BAP and not TRAP. You are not limited within or without the BAP and can do as you please. BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 22:24:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA14131 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:24:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: aadegl@mindspring.com Received: from dewdrop2.mindspring.com (dewdrop2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14246 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:53:20 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld68j.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.153.19]) by dewdrop2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA31846 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981012145005.006e7b58@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:50:05 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Consecutive records In-Reply-To: <362243A3.7BD8@utdallas.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >> I am a great advocate of toe dexterities therefore i'm >> quite interested in knowing the records for the following moves; > > > >I'm sure Daryl Genz has hit 10+ smears on both sides. How about you, >Aaron? Aaron de Glanville (did I spell this right) yeah >can hit just about >any double dex from toe set Only a right toe set. I've never hit: t.>same out>op out>op t. (?) t.>op out>op out>op t. (omelette?) t.>op in>op out>op t. (toe blizzard) > so hopefully he can let us know some of >these records. I am pretty interrested myself. I can do very few of those tricks consecutively, owing to my self-inflicted handicap of closed-toes. My humble records: eggbeater: 3 toe set d.l.o: 6 back-to-back pixie legovers: ??? (I should go for a record) Thanks D aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 22:35:12 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA22835 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:35:12 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from webster.lcc.ctc.edu (lcc.ctc.edu [134.39.132.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14374 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:05:18 -0700 Received: from lab2.ctc.edu (134.39.132.58) by webster.lcc.ctc.edu (WORLDMAIL 1.3.166) for freestyle@footbag.org; 12 Oct 1998 15:08:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981012150945.006a4530@lcc.ctc.edu> X-Sender: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:09:45 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: [freestyle] revised adds/trippless Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mic check 1 2, 1 2 The Torch has the torch. Are you listening? Thank you. First I would like to thank everybody that responded to my trippless question. Your responses gave me a few ideas on how to solve some of our problems. It's obvious that some people do not want to get rid of a few of the harder 3 add moves like atom smasher. I agree that atom smasher is a worthy trick. So now I wonder, like everybody else, is the add system to blame. Of course we base our guidelines on the current add system. If we got rid of it then being guiltless or trippless wouldn't mean anything anyway. So what to do? Well during my boring as hell business class I pondered a solution. I think it would be fairly easy to fix the add system. It would be a lot easier to fix it than completely get rid of it. So how do we fix it? Well let's think about the evolution of the current add system. There was, in the beginning, X-body, body, stall, dexterity and unusuals. So what happened when we stopped planting our foot during a mirage. Symposium was born. Same with parodox, gyro, etc. These concepts made moves harder and therefore we get an extra add when we tack them on to a move. So why does atom smasher seem so much harder than parodox mirage. Mabey there is an extra add there that we havn't seen yet. For instance let's take double leg over and atom smasher, both the same add count. But atom smasher is harder. When you do either you are doing two dex's. However on double leg over the second dex is easy because the first dex leg is out of the way. On atom smasher the first dex leg is right in front of the leg you should be moving right now in order to do the move before the bag hits the ground. Therefore you are forced to do the first dex faster making the move harder. An extra add? Then atom smasher is 4 adds. Same with egg-beater. So mabey any dex following an out dex should get an add. What about in-spin. It's harder than just a spin. It's almost like a parodox spin because it's set from the other side of your body. Mabey it should get an extra add. To make this all sound more simple, just ask yourself if there is a reason why this 3 add is as hard as a 4 add. Mabey it is a 4 add. Two things are for sure. The current add system should not be thrown out but added on two. New concept = new add. And secondly you need to realize that tripplessness will become a reality. It is inevitable whether you like it or not. There will be those who go trippless and the masses will follow. It will become a standard and creating standards is what the Big Add Posse was founded on. When the Posse was formed they said no 1 adds. In '95 they said no 2 adds. '99 is going to be the year of tripplessness for me and for many others. If you can't do it then TOUGH SHIT! I do not want to offend anybody really but this is reality. This is how it is. Until next time, take care of yourself and eachother. "Torch" P.S. All freestyle is wonderful whether you're doing one adds or 10 adds. All I'm trying to do is push myself to be better. If others follow that's great. It is great to push yourself. I don't want anybody to be discouraged if they don't want to go trippless. What you're doing is already impressive and is a wonderful way to express yourself. If your'e not having fun then what's the point. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 12 23:58:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA07605 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 23:58:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel7.mindspring.com (camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15125 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:04:13 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld69j.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.153.51]) by camel7.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA31110 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981012160100.006b34bc@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:01:00 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: [freestyle] triplessness Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Note to Torch: this was actually written before reading your post, and in no way constitutes a response to you personally. Just to "add" my two cents on the "tripless" issue: Emphasizing "guiltless" and "tripless" does far more harm to the sport than good. Don't give me any b.s. about "pushing the limits"--there are countless ways of doing this besides setting up some kind of artificial dogma about what particular pool of tricks definitively constitute "the next level". JP is absolutely correct: the net effect will be more homogenization of style and arbitrary devaluing of tricks than ever before. Agreed, shooting for tripless is *one* way of pushing the boundaries of one's game. What about BOPless? (Butterfly/Osis/Paradox-mirage -less) Or RADD guiltless? Or RADD tripless? (Or even a variation on the Enlightener's shred skills competition proposal: individual stylers declare their self-imposed limitations/pools of tricks). This has nothing to do with endorsing a particular system or pool of tricks, just emphasizing that NO SINGLE SYSTEM or pool of tricks should be given primacy in determining difficulty. Otherwise people are going to be more brainwashed than ever into thinking that the current add system accurately reflects difficulty (dude, that's like, a FOUR-ADD MOVE!!! You RULE!!!). I apologize in advance for offending anyone. Thanks for letting me vent. I of course have my own systems that I endorse. BOPless for BAP in '99! (I'm going to start printing the bumper stickers now) free style aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 00:34:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA24655 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 00:34:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (mail.callplus.co.nz [202.27.103.146]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16185 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:06:02 -0700 Received: by mail.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:04:05 +1300 Message-ID: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C1F953E@mail.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: Aaron de Glanville , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] triplessness Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:04:04 +1300 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I think the real issue lies with the add system not being ready for triplessness. It has coped with tilt & guiltless. All we gotta do is modify the add system to cope. I like Ahrens idea of any dexterity following a reverse mirage getting a bonus add, but I reckon it still leaves out a few tricks (toe set blur). I think I suggested this one before - a toe set, toe catch trick, that has different direction dexterities should recieve an extra add. That way toe set blur scores a bonus add, but blur and double leg-over stays the same etc. The add would apply for pretty much all toe set to catch moves except for double legover and the like. What dya reckon? > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron de Glanville [SMTP:aadegl@mindspring.com] > Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 1998 12:01 > To: freestyle@footbag.org > Subject: Re: [freestyle] triplessness > > Note to Torch: this was actually written before reading your post, > and in > no way constitutes a response to you personally. > > Just to "add" my two cents on the "tripless" issue: > > Emphasizing "guiltless" and "tripless" does far more harm to the sport > than > good. Don't give me any b.s. about "pushing the limits"--there are > countless ways of doing this besides setting up some kind of > artificial > dogma about what particular pool of tricks definitively constitute > "the > next level". JP is absolutely correct: the net effect will be more > homogenization of style and arbitrary devaluing of tricks than ever > before. > > Agreed, shooting for tripless is *one* way of pushing the boundaries > of > one's game. What about BOPless? (Butterfly/Osis/Paradox-mirage -less) > Or > RADD guiltless? Or RADD tripless? (Or even a variation on the > Enlightener's > shred skills competition proposal: individual stylers declare their > self-imposed limitations/pools of tricks). > > This has nothing to do with endorsing a particular system or pool of > tricks, just emphasizing that NO SINGLE SYSTEM or pool of tricks > should be > given primacy in determining difficulty. Otherwise people are going to > be > more brainwashed than ever into thinking that the current add system > accurately reflects difficulty (dude, that's like, a FOUR-ADD MOVE!!! > You > RULE!!!). > > I apologize in advance for offending anyone. Thanks for letting me > vent. I > of course have my own systems that I endorse. > > BOPless for BAP in '99! > > (I'm going to start printing the bumper stickers now) > > > > free style > > aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 02:55:38 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA26172 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 02:55:38 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: SuperOwen@aol.com Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id IDHEa22759 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:33:53 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <36ffa38.3622ae01@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:33:53 EDT To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Mirage Help Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I can't seem to get the Mirage. I have a few questions. 1) How high do you set? I usually set between knee and waist. Should it be lower? 2) Do you set, plant, then do the dex? Or kinda hop, set, and do the dex all in one motion? 3) Do you plant the dex foot before you catch it or do you hop mid-dex and catch it as you dex foot is landing? Total Package From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 03:04:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA31032 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 03:04:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA17864 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:07:51 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id VAA17182; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:43:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] triplessness In-Reply-To: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C1F953E@mail.callplus.co.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org There's been a ton too much subjective text so I'll be as brief as possible: > tricks (toe set blur). I think I suggested this one before - a toe set, > toe catch trick, that has different direction dexterities should recieve > an extra add. > The add would apply for pretty much all toe set to catch moves except > for double legover and the like. > > What dya reckon? Okay, I like where this is heading but I can't hang with the 4-add eggbeater. It's not that hard ( and I don't even do them ). Furthermore, the creation of new add categories requires further changes within the judging system, unless you just want to heap it all together in 'body' and triple the maximum on cards to sixty. If this happens then the bi-directional dexterity moves from toe become a requirement. No, I don't think this is the way. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 04:01:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA10973 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 04:01:07 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (mail.callplus.co.nz [202.27.103.146]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18598 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:01:41 -0700 Received: by mail.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:00:08 +1300 Message-ID: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C1F955F@mail.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: Magically Delicious Josh Penney , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] triplessness Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:00:07 +1300 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If we added the new category as a small amount of moves required to max out the toe2toe portion of the scoring card it would not adversly affect people who do not hit those moves. The purpose of having those different elements is to encourage variety in your routine, and it seems to me that at present, no one wants to risk a toe set blur in a routine when they can hit Blur for more adds, limiting the variety of shred. > -----Original Message----- > From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney > [SMTP:jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 1998 14:44 > To: freestyle@footbag.org > Subject: RE: [freestyle] triplessness > > There's been a ton too much subjective text so I'll be as brief as > possible: > > > tricks (toe set blur). I think I suggested this one before - a toe > set, > > toe catch trick, that has different direction dexterities should > recieve > > an extra add. > > The add would apply for pretty much all toe set to catch moves > except > > for double legover and the like. > > > > What dya reckon? > > Okay, I like where this is heading but I can't hang with the 4-add > eggbeater. It's not that hard ( and I don't even do them ). > Furthermore, > the creation of new add categories requires further changes within the > > judging system, unless you just want to heap it all together in 'body' > > and triple the maximum on cards to sixty. If this happens then the > bi-directional dexterity moves from toe become a requirement. > No, I don't think this is the way. > > JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 04:01:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA10956 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 04:01:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: aadegl@mindspring.com Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18845 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:27:32 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld65s.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.152.188]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA27186 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 23:27:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981012202419.006bd51c@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:24:19 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] triplessness and RADDs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wow, we're talking Revised Adds! >> I think I suggested this one before - a toe set, >> toe catch trick, that has different direction dexterities should recieve >> an extra add. >> The add would apply for pretty much all toe set to catch moves except >> for double legover and the like. >> >> What dya reckon? > >Okay, I like where this is heading but I can't hang with the 4-add >eggbeater. It's not that hard ( and I don't even do them ). Furthermore, >the creation of new add categories requires further changes within the >judging system, unless you just want to heap it all together in 'body' >and triple the maximum on cards to sixty. If this happens then the >bi-directional dexterity moves from toe become a requirement. >No, I don't think this is the way. What if we: Start with the add system we all know (and love?). Include TWO SIMPLE AMENDMENTS: 1. the paradox dex must be the first to occur (to score an add) 2. a bonus dex add is awarded for: A) every dex after the first, except in the case of "complementary" double-dex moves (two legs dexing in same direction). B) every spin/gyro in a dex move not awarded the above bonus RADD scores: butterfly - 3 osis - 3 paradox mirage - 3 whirl - 3 swirl - 3 double-legover - 3 torque - 4 eggbeater - 4 barrage - 4 atom smasher - 4 blur - 4 ripwalk - 4 legbeater - 5 barfly - 5 blurry whirl - 5 paradox torque - 5 gyro d.l.o - 5 note: this was done just to oppress JP :) aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 04:07:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA19413 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 04:07:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id IMLVa17798 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:43:41 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <2d94fb6d.3622b04d@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:43:41 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] tripless? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org alright, it's time for the inexperienced, can hardly hit a mirage, Total Package to speak. Why are we worrying so much about what this BAP group does. In my opinion it doesn't matter if they can all go tripless are not. Stop worrying about other people going tripless. Aim for it yourself. Skool hard. Lord knows I am. Total Package From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 16:59:46 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA03872 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:59:46 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from [207.208.101.33] (d33.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.33]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA09921; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:24:52 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:13:54 -0600 To: SuperOwen@aol.com, freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org From: Enlightener Subject: Re: [freestyle] Frustration Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Owen! At 9:51 PM -0400 10/8/98, SuperOwen@aol.com wrote: >I'm 15 and have been doing footbag hardcore for only bout a month or two. And >I'm having a heck of a time getting the hang of it. I was just kinda curious >when some of you older guys started and how long it took you to get halfway >decent and what you did to get there? That's about it. This older guy started in 1985 in the alley behind my high school in junior year. I kept playing because some older guy who was on my "flying disc" ultimate team saw me playing on the sidelines (because of a sprained ankle) and said that he thought I had potential (this was when I used footbag as a warm up/stretch for ultimate, oh the irony... now I stretch/warm up for footbag). That little bit of encouragement kept me going until I was better than the guy who first forced me to kick that "stupid" little ball. Then I was lucky enough to go to a tournament where I met Andy Linder and some other "old guys" who further encouraged me. Then I went to a tourney in Michigan *with* Andy Linder and crew. Then I went to Worlds '85 and I have been at worlds every year since then, this year I am hosting it. By '88 I was doing clipper swirls and 'osis' and torque, and that was the cutting edge. Needless to say, I'm hooked. In that time, I have travelled the US and Canada, and met many of my best friends in life. I look forward to many more years of this madness. Now, to keep up (and hopefully in the lead) of all you young whippersnappers, I play five days a week and skool hard. Summary: Fun, friends, perseverance, commitment, fun and friends. Hope that helps. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 16:59:54 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA03896 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:59:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA23760 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 05:25:11 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.33] (d33.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.33]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA09949; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:25:02 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BDF48F.50E92800@newgrimnet-23.idirect.com> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:29:16 -0600 To: Rob Howe , "'freestyle@footbag.org'" From: Enlightener Subject: Re: [freestyle] Lavers in the States Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Rob! >Just wondering if the shoe stores in the states carry lavers? I will be >making a stop over in chicago and I was hoping to pick-up 1 or 2 pairs >while I was waiting for my flight. If anyone in the chicago region could >let me know I'd appreicate it. Generally, in Chicago most Sportmarts and Sports Authorities carry them. More so in the western suburbs where O'Hare airport is. Problem, there is no mall within 30 minutes of O'Hare, none that I can think of. If you have a car and a lot of time, then it shouldn't be a problem to find them, unless you have big feet. Out here, we mostly buy our shoes from the WFA, check them out online, you can find them through links at: They are great, cheap and quick to get. Good luck, and next time, stay over longer in Chicago so we can set-up a shred session. Call the MFA at: 773-237-9255. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 16:59:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA03833 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:59:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from iuakk.fi (qmailr@lux2.iuakk.fi [194.89.13.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA25158 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:36:33 -0700 Received: (qmail 8522 invoked from network); 13 Oct 1998 14:36:16 -0000 Received: from x2-56k.ppp.36.iuakk.fi (HELO iuakk) (194.89.12.102) by lux2.iuakk.fi with SMTP; 13 Oct 1998 14:36:16 -0000 Message-ID: <000a01bdf6b2$bb9eccc0$010000c4@iuakk.iuakk.fi> From: "pillar" To: "Freestyle" Subject: [freestyle] moves on video Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:06:48 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Those video clips are great at www.footbag.org , but it would be nice if there can be more 2 and 3 add moves so people like me (newbies) can learn those easier tricks and after that, move to harder tricks. - Juha L. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 16:59:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA03826 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:59:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from geo272 ([207.87.222.38]) by mail.accnorwalk.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release 0122 ID# 564-48782U3500L350S0) with SMTP id AAA168; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:39:52 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Vern DeHaven" To: , Subject: RE: [freestyle] Mirage Help Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:34:29 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bdf6a5$d39a8d80$056414ac@geo272.geotrac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <36ffa38.3622ae01@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey TP, 1) I usually set *just* below waist height. 2) I do the first: set, plant, wait for the bag to crest, then on its way down hop off the planting leg, and perform the dex. 3) I usually catch the bag as I land. I can't remember who said it in an earlier post, but it was a great tip. Concentrate on the delay, not the dex. HTH, Vern "I *really* know what you mean" D. -----Original Message----- From: SuperOwen@aol.com Subject: [freestyle] Mirage Help I can't seem to get the Mirage. I have a few questions. 1) How high do you set? I usually set between knee and waist. Should it be lower? 2) Do you set, plant, then do the dex? Or kinda hop, set, and do the dex all in one motion? 3) Do you plant the dex foot before you catch it or do you hop mid-dex and catch it as you dex foot is landing? Total Package From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 16:59:56 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA03912 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:59:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24965 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:25:09 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.33] (d33.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.33]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA03639; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:24:50 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981009113724.006a03a0@lcc.ctc.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:23:56 -0600 To: Ahren Gehrman , freestyle@footbag.org From: Enlightener Subject: Re: [freestyle] trippless? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Ahren and Freestylers! At 11:37 AM -0500 10/9/98, Ahren Gehrman wrote: >I have a question. Now I know that there are a few people striving for >triplessness this year like the Enlightener and myself. I was just curious >about who else has this goal in mind. I think all of the B.A.P. has the >potential to achieve this but I don't know who wants to. It's definately a >lot of work. Do you think that if ( or when ) some of the Posse did this >that it would push others to achieve this or would it discourage them. I >would love to hear everybodys view on this. I know that Peter, Ahren, Ryan and myself are for-sure skoolin' tripless hard. I am already tripless, and it doesn't bother me that I left behind a few three add moves. I am still skoolin' these "atom smashers" and similar front side difficult three add moves, but you won't be seeing them in my typical strings, maybe in skool sessions. I am having a BLAST stringing together the fours with fives, man that is fun!!! I don't see it as limiting at all. I believe that this will increase the general level of difficulty in BAP, and raise the bar one level higher. If you are not a posse member yet, and you are going tripless, then you will be soon. I think the BAP is about pushing your own limits and being on the cutting edge. Period. I have great respect for all players, beginner... intermediate... pro... non-competitors.... everyone who pushes their own limits and recreates "reality" as we know it! Remember, the only one from keeping you from hitting that trick that is just outside of your grasp, or that combo that just doesn't seem possible.... is yourself. As Sam Conlon would say, you miss 100% of the tricks you don't try. Push your limits, you'll always be on your own cutting edge, and eventually you'll be on *the* cutting edge! It's all about perception and belief. Believe in yourself. Keep shredding! See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 17:00:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA03945 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:00:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f288.hotmail.com [207.82.251.179]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA25858 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:28:22 -0700 Received: (qmail 15820 invoked by uid 0); 13 Oct 1998 15:27:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19981013152751.15819.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.190.116 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:27:51 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.190.116] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] revised adds/trippless Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:27:51 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Congrats to Ahren for starting a wicked debate in his first week on the list! As far as the debate itself, I would like to make a few points. If you want and can go trippless, go for it. But as a fan of the sport, please don't sacrifice variety in order to do so. I don't want to go to Worlds and see everyone doing 10 ripwalks in a row thinking they're cool because they're going trippless! Because it's not cool, it's boring! However, I think the likes of Ahren and Scott can pull it off. But still, Ahren, will we never see you do paradon, barrage, paradon again? Barrage is 3, but it's still just a rewound paradon. Go figure. Personally, I would love to see kickers (BAP and non-BAP) go for hein trippless runs from time to time. But as a mode for kicking all the time, I think it's pretty whack. There are just too many interesting 3s. Not just atom-smasher which everyone pulls out their , but inspinning-mirage, merkon, barrrage (toe and clipper), toe blur/blizzard, spinning dragonfly and the ever-popular triple spinning and triple around the world kicks. I'd love for the add system to be "fixed," because tripplessness can be a great tool for motivation. In the mean time, I think that butterfly, osis, whirl, pdx-mirageless strings would be the . Thanks for reading my two cents worth. Dan Kramer NYFD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 17:17:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA12587 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:17:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27011 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:45:27 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.112] (d112.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.112]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA17139; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:45:05 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19981012182451.2341.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:49:58 -0600 To: "Mark Denton" , freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson Subject: Re: [freestyle] triplessness Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Mark and Freestylers! >I totally disagree. While going tripless is an incredible feat, it >eliminates all of the cool three's that there has been so much arguement >over regarding the add system(Atom Smasher, ect.). It only eliminates a handful of "cool" threes. >I think the BAP >should be there to push the sport but pushing the sport does not mean >barring creativity by limiting the number of moves you have to choose >from just so you can go tripless. Making triplessness a prerequisite >for the BAP is like saying if you want to become a member you also have >to become narrow minded. Going tripless opens up huge windows of possibility, not the other way around. You will see, tripless is the future. Not a prerequisite, but a necessary eventual path. Keep shreddin' See ya! Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 17:17:25 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA12588 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:17:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26995 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:45:15 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.112] (d112.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.112]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA17106; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:44:59 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:46:01 -0600 To: Magically Delicious Josh Penney , freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson Subject: Re: [freestyle] tripless Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers (and Josh) >> i think it would be a damn cool idea if all of the bap went tripless, infact >> it >> should almost be a prerequisite, the bap must be the best >They already are. Going three-free is a specific style of play, and kinda >limiting. I can do strings like that, but they're all really short- in >fact if the whole posse *had* to do that you wouldn't see very many long >strings for several months. Fact of the matter is that many posse-ites >play lots of really hard strings, but will use a three to catch their >breath, or to take a moment in their minds to decide what to do next. If you call 15 to 25 contact tripless strings short, then that is your call. To me, those are somewhat long... not long enough for me, but long none the less. In the past, I have focused on fours, but relied on threes as josh mentions above. But not anymore. Now it is just fours, fives and sixes. I even start most strings with a kicking paradon (kickadon) or a kicking torque (korque). I don't feel I am leaving too much behind. There are a ton of two add moves, not that many three add moves and a ton of four add moves, kinda like a bell curve. >Players will push themselves at their own paces. While certain >restrictions allow for a push in difficulty, too much limits players. I >can understand taking the 'easy bail' moves out- namely butterfly osis >paradox mirage- but you can't tell me symposium mirage and spinning >dragonfly are so easy they'd be better off without them. Josh, are you just afraid to go tripless, now that you are solidly guiltless. If nothing else, I agree with Josh that players should reduce their reliance on osis, butterfly and p-mirage... but remember not to do it too soon, as I *was* one of those players who relied heavily on butterflies and osis' to make my guiltless strings go over the 50 contact marker. "With Honor" should mean a reduction in those three moves. See ya! Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 17:25:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA12687 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:25:49 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27525 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:05:11 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.112] (d112.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.112]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA13552; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:04:56 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19981009113724.006a03a0@lcc.ctc.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:52:08 -0600 To: KAPLAN BRADLEY M , Ahren Gehrman From: Scott Davidson Subject: Re: [freestyle] trippless? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! At 2:55 PM -0600 10/12/98, KAPLAN BRADLEY M wrote: > Do you think that if ( or when ) some of the Posse did this >> that it would push others to achieve this or would it discourage them. > > In a word YES! There are those who will be discouraged by that level >of play and there will be those who are encouraged. But, will you try for >tripless even if others don't? Yes. > Go for tripless and encourage others to >go with you. Then it becomes their decision to try or not. Ya. > Personally I'm still trying for guiltless and I'm falling just short, >but that won't stop me from eventually trying for tripless. > GO MAN GO and hail to ye. Cut your own edge first, then the edges of others. Go man (and women) go! See ya! Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 17:48:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA21266 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:48:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27842 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:25:10 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.112] (d112.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.112]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA18195; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:24:59 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981012150945.006a4530@lcc.ctc.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:25:49 -0600 To: Ahren Gehrman , freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson Subject: Re: [freestyle] revised adds/trippless Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers and Ahren! Ahren wrote: >I think it would be fairly easy >to fix the add system. It would be a lot easier to fix it than completely >get rid of it. So how do we fix it? Well let's think about the evolution >of the current add system. >The >current add system should not be thrown out but added onto. Okay folks... People are all hot to make a new system, and to be honest with you, I am still resisting that notion, as I haven't seen anything that will work yet. I am warmer to the concept of changing the existing system to better handle "anomolies". So what Ahren said about there being an additional element of difficulty in opposing direction dexterities (ODD)makes sense to me. We need to identify that, specify it in general language and consider approving it for inclusion into the existing system. It should have a cool name, along the lines of "symposium" or "paradox", any suggestions? There are other elements of difficulty that need to be identified. And what the hell, even though Josh doesn't think it to be doable, lets consider a 6th add category called "special" which would encompass all the special instances that we have, so far, lumped into the "body" category. We could purify the body category that way. Sure it adds 1 judge to the system, but maybe we could have the "Unusual" judge take over and do "Special". As far as the worlds judging system goes, right now the system allows a player 20 drops before going "wholesale", with 5 points tied up there. This means that every player starts with 5 points at the beginning of the routine, then each drop subtracts .25 from their score. I propose that we reduce the "wholesale" limit to 12 and the starting points to 3, take the available two points and put them into the "special" add category, which would allow 20 unique "special" moves to be awarded .1 (one tenth) of a point each. This gives a little more weight to the nearly maxed comp card (I hit a 9.7 in comp in 1st round Montreal 98), and a little less power to the Presentation card which is overly strong by anyone's standards. When was the last time you saw a finalist do more than 5 drops anyway... or any pro or intermediate do over 9 drops for that matter. Rare, very rare. So, Josh, it can be done and while keeping a total score of 30 available points. New concept >= new add. And secondly you need to realize that tripplessness will become >a reality. It is inevitable whether you like it or not. Yep. >There will be >those who go trippless and the masses will follow. It will become a >standard and creating standards is what the Big Add Posse was founded on. >When the Posse was formed they said no 1 adds. In '95 they said no 2 adds. In '96 we went guiltless, much to the surprise of most players. > '99 is going to be the year of tripplessness for me and for many others. >If you can't do it then TOUGH SHIT! I do not want to offend anybody really >but this is reality. This is how it is. Yep. >P.S. All freestyle is wonderful whether you're doing one adds or 10 adds. >All I'm trying to do is push myself to be better. If others follow that's >great. It is great to push yourself. I don't want anybody to be >discouraged if they don't want to go trippless. What you're doing is >already impressive and is a wonderful way to express yourself. If your'e >not having fun then what's the point. Yep. See ya! Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 17:48:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA21279 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:48:42 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27874 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:25:27 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.112] (d112.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.112]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA18220; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:25:04 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C1F953E@mail.callplus.co.nz> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:29:16 -0600 To: Adrian Dick , Aaron de Glanville , freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson Subject: RE: [freestyle] triplessness Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! At 1:04 PM +1300 10/13/98, Adrian Dick wrote: >It has coped with tilt & guiltless. All we gotta do is modify the add >system to cope. I like Ahrens idea of any dexterity following a reverse >mirage getting a bonus add, but I reckon it still leaves out a few >tricks (toe set blur). I think I suggested this one before - a toe set, >toe catch trick, that has different direction dexterities should recieve >an extra add. That way toe set blur scores a bonus add, but blur and >double leg-over stays the same etc. > >The add would apply for pretty much all toe set to catch moves except >for double legover and the like. We need to come up with a cool name for this phenomena, and to carefully define it. How about "Dynomite"? See ya! Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 18:05:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA29811 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:05:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Resent-From: reiddm@magma.ca Received: from homer.tomahawktech.com (cpu1550.adsl.bellglobal.com [206.47.27.31]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28284 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:43:18 -0700 Received: from pc0966.software.mitel.com (Administrators@localhost) by homer.tomahawktech.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA00275 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:44:49 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:44:48 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199810131744.NAA00275@homer.tomahawktech.com> From: "Dave Reid" To: "Freestyle" Subject: [freestyle] Fake Osis? Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:44:20 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bdf6d1$1bbb4f20$c136c786@pc0966.software.mitel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <000a01bdf6b2$bb9eccc0$010000c4@iuakk.iuakk.fi> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In one of the videos posted on footbag.org, Scott D. does a Ripwalk followed by something that looks like a fake Osis. He sets, turns to look at the bag, but then turns back and catches it on the setting foot. Is this simply a clipper delay, or is credit given for the body moves done in between clippers? Strangely enough, he follows this move (labelled as an Osis) with something the same except with a turn to the front. This I think would be a Spinning Osis. Can someone show me the light? Dave From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 18:35:41 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA05620 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:35:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dept.english.upenn.edu (DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU [130.91.75.246]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28623; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:07:58 -0700 Received: (from sunilj@localhost) by dept.english.upenn.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) id OAA70364; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:09:20 -0400 From: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani) Message-Id: <199810131809.OAA70364@dept.english.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] triplessness - revised... To: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:09:20 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: from "Scott Davidson" at Oct 13, 98 12:29:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > At 1:04 PM +1300 10/13/98, Adrian Dick wrote: > >It has coped with tilt & guiltless. All we gotta do is modify the add > >system to cope. I like Ahrens idea of any dexterity following a reverse > >mirage getting a bonus add, but I reckon it still leaves out a few > >tricks (toe set blur). I think I suggested this one before - a toe set, > >toe catch trick, that has different direction dexterities should recieve > >an extra add. That way toe set blur scores a bonus add, but blur and > >double leg-over stays the same etc. > > > >The add would apply for pretty much all toe set to catch moves except > >for double legover and the like. Scott said: > ... we need to ... carefully define it. Here is my attempt at defining this phenomenon. Prerequisites: The extra add SHOULD apply to moves like toe blur, toe blizzard, atom smasher, ommelet... the bag changes toes during the execution of each of these moves (ie left set toe blur ends on right toe). The extra add SHOULD NOT apply to moves like smear, smudge, double legover, eggbeater. The bag winds up on the same toe which originally set it in these moves. There is a distinction... but the definition has to be careful to exclude moves like pixielegover which does switch toes. Here goes...DEFINITION: This extra add should be given in a toe to toe move in which at least one dexterity is done with each foot and the move ends with the footbag being stalled on the nonsetting toe. This add does not apply when the first dexterity is done with the setting foot. ...acknowledged, we may be able to change the wording to make it simpler... but what do people think about the content?? Any loopholes? FIRE AWAY, footbaggahs... Gosh, I LOVE THIS SPORT! Sunil From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 19:27:19 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA14235 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:27:19 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pop02.globecomm.net (pop02.globecomm.net [206.253.129.186]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29209; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:59:50 -0700 Received: from who.net ([209.84.39.95]) by pop02.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id PAA13252; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3623A4F5.69BFC125@who.net> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:07:33 -0500 From: Eric Burgess X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sunil Jani CC: Scott Davidson , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] triplessness - revised... References: <199810131809.OAA70364@dept.english.upenn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sunil Jani wrote: > Here goes...DEFINITION: > This extra add should be given in a toe to toe move in which at least > one dexterity is done with each foot and the move ends with the footbag > being stalled on the nonsetting toe. This add does not apply when the > first dexterity is done with the setting foot. A simpler way to say that would be: A move that starts on toe, has two op dex's, and lands on op toe. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 19:43:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA22867 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:43:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f70.hotmail.com [207.82.251.210]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA29468 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:19:18 -0700 Received: (qmail 10084 invoked by uid 0); 13 Oct 1998 19:18:47 -0000 Message-ID: <19981013191847.10083.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.155 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:18:46 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.155] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org, reiddm@magma.ca Subject: Re: [freestyle] Fake Osis? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:18:46 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all. Dave Reid asked: > >In one of the videos posted on footbag.org, Scott D. does a Ripwalk followed >by something that looks like a fake Osis. He sets, turns to look at the >bag, but then turns back and catches it on the setting foot. Is this simply >a clipper delay, or is credit given for the body moves done in between >clippers? It's a peeking osis, but to my knowledge it doesn't get a body add. Don't worry about adds though, since they're completely meaningless. Cool move eh? I've heard that Kenny Shults has ducked the bag after a peek, and that this set is called peeking duck. To those people out there who do peek, could you tell me if you catch your balance at the instant you peak? I mean, do you stop and look at it? On my poor attempts at peeking, i whip my head around and back without really seeing the bag. Should i stop and spot the bag? It never seems like i have time. I'd appreciate any tips. Kick and have fun. KeN NYFA ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 19:43:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA22880 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:43:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: aadegl@mindspring.com Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29521 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:20:16 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld6td.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.155.173]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA30637 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981013121703.006b7400@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:17:03 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] triplessness - revised... In-Reply-To: <199810131809.OAA70364@dept.english.upenn.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >The extra add SHOULD apply to moves like toe blur, toe blizzard, atom >smasher, ommelet... the bag changes toes during the execution of each of >these moves (ie left set toe blur ends on right toe). > >The extra add SHOULD NOT apply to moves like smear, smudge, double >legover, eggbeater. The bag winds up on the same toe which originally set >it in these moves. There is a distinction... but the definition has to be >careful to exclude moves like pixielegover which does switch toes. > >This extra add should be given in a toe to toe move in which at least >one dexterity is done with each foot and the move ends with the footbag >being stalled on the nonsetting toe. This add does not apply when the >first dexterity is done with the setting foot. My first comment is that *reverse-pixie mirage*, *reverse-pixie reverse legover* and *reverse-pixie reverse mirage* seem pretty worthy to me... And what are the implications for triple-dex moves? This is a good approach--deciding *first* what moves should get bonuses, then trying to create the rule accordingly. But this seems to lend all the more credence to the simple Assigned Scoring System (ASS?) where difficulty scores are determined independent of formula. I hope someone decides on *some* kind of change soon, otherwise people will soon be convinced that "tripless" is the new universal standard of "cool". And any BAPP player shredding "with honor" (i.e. with variety and flexibility) gets *way* more props from me than one who shreds tripless just because 4 is MORE than 3. Hmm, wonder if this has anything to do with add count in competition... aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 20:07:25 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA31533 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:07:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA30081 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:44:34 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.112] (d112.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.112]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA22427; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:44:21 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000001bdf6d1$1bbb4f20$c136c786@pc0966.software.mitel.com> References: <000a01bdf6b2$bb9eccc0$010000c4@iuakk.iuakk.fi> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:35:18 -0600 To: "Dave Reid" , "Freestyle" From: Scott Davidson Subject: Re: [freestyle] Fake Osis? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! At 1:44 PM -0400 10/13/98, Dave Reid wrote: >In one of the videos posted on footbag.org, Scott D. does a Ripwalk followed >by something that looks like a fake Osis. He sets, turns to look at the >bag, but then turns back and catches it on the setting foot. Is this simply >a clipper delay, or is credit given for the body moves done in between >clippers? That is a "Peeking Osis", and I have been told it is a 4 add move, but I don't care how many adds, it is fun. There is also a Peking Duck which is basically the peeking osis, with a duck at the apex and back to the same side as the set. >Strangely enough, he follows this move (labelled as an Osis) with something >the same except with a turn to the front. This I think would be a Spinning >Osis. Can someone show me the light? That is probably spinning osis, as I do that on both sides from just about anything. It also could have just been an osis set from the same side. See ya! Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 20:35:02 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA07496 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:35:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA31022 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:14:32 -0700 Received: from [144.92.183.157] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id PAA88430 (8.8.6/50); Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:14:25 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19981013150500.006c68a8@students.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mklewand@students.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:05:00 -0500 To: "Dave Reid" , "Freestyle" From: Matthew Kain Lewandowski Subject: Re: [freestyle] Fake Osis? In-Reply-To: <000001bdf6d1$1bbb4f20$c136c786@pc0966.software.mitel.com> References: <000a01bdf6b2$bb9eccc0$010000c4@iuakk.iuakk.fi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dave and all, I love that peeking osis too (thanks for the idea Scott - my fellow footbaggers and I have all been skooling this move). >Strangely enough, he follows this move (labelled as an Osis) with something >the same except with a turn to the front. This I think would be a Spinning >Osis. Can someone show me the light? This is just an osis set from the opposite clipper (i.e. left osis set from a right clipper) I do not believe that you get an extra add for this (It isn't like you get an extra add for setting a right side osis from a left toe as opposed to a right toe...) Be sure to check out a bit later in the video when Scott hits peeking osis with a dive. Makes me shiver... Matthew Kain From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Oct 13 21:58:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA24773 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:58:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f245.hotmail.com [207.82.251.136]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA32318 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:37:01 -0700 Received: (qmail 3105 invoked by uid 0); 13 Oct 1998 21:36:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19981013213629.3104.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.209.197.35 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:36:29 PDT X-Originating-IP: [204.209.197.35] From: "matt dick" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] are lavers THAT good? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:36:29 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hi i was wondering are rod lavers That much better than say a pair of Vans or something? It's not that i dont want lavers, it is that i live up hear in Canada (alberta) and not only will it cost me like $120 to order from Wfa I might get the wrong size as i dont quite know how adidas shoes fit. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 02:20:17 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA03556 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:20:17 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from webster.lcc.ctc.edu (lcc.ctc.edu [134.39.132.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00588 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:27:49 -0700 Received: from lab2.ctc.edu (134.39.132.57) by webster.lcc.ctc.edu (WORLDMAIL 1.3.166) for freestyle@footbag.org; 13 Oct 1998 15:30:39 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981013153213.006aa2fc@lcc.ctc.edu> X-Sender: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:32:13 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: Re: [freestyle] revised adds/trippless In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19981012150945.006a4530@lcc.ctc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What's your 20 yo? The Torch is in the hizouse! First of all, thank you Enlightener (and the Regul8r) for your support. And...... Scott said: >So what Ahren said about there being an additional element of difficulty in >opposing direction dexterities (ODD)makes sense to me. We need to identify >that, specify it in general language and consider approving it for >inclusion into the existing system. It should have a cool name, along the >lines of "symposium" or "paradox", any suggestions? I don't know what to call it but this is how I define it. An extra add is awarded to any miraging dexterity that follows a reverse miraging dexterity set. It does not matter if it's set from a toe or it's a parodox set or whatever. An atom smasher would now be 4 adds. An eggbeater would still be 3 adds becuase the first dex is not in the way of the second. I'm sorry but toe blur and the likes don't benifit from this change. They shouldn't. I know they seem harder but you can't just give them an add for no reason. If you can come up with a logical reason then let everybody know. >And what the hell, even though Josh doesn't think it to be doable, lets >consider a 6th add category called "special" which would encompass all the >special instances that we have, so far, lumped into the "body" category. >We could purify the body category that way. Sure it adds 1 judge to the >system, but maybe we could have the "Unusual" judge take over and do >"Special". I agree. There should be a new category anyway. Parodox and symposium don't belong in body. This way we could add all the quirky new concepts to it. I know there will be more new concepts anyway. >As far as the worlds judging system goes, right now the system allows a >player 20 drops before going "wholesale", with 5 points tied up there. >This means that every player starts with 5 points at the beginning of the >routine, then each drop subtracts .25 from their score. I propose that we >reduce the "wholesale" limit to 12 and the starting points to 3, take the >available two points and put them into the "special" add category, which >would allow 20 unique "special" moves to be awarded .1 (one tenth) of a >point each. This gives a little more weight to the nearly maxed comp card >(I hit a 9.7 in comp in 1st round Montreal 98), and a little less power to >the Presentation card which is overly strong by anyone's standards. When >was the last time you saw a finalist do more than 5 drops anyway... or any >pro or intermediate do over 9 drops for that matter. Rare, very rare. >So, Josh, it can be done and while keeping a total score of 30 available >points. Amen. An excelent idea. I see no problem with this set up. Let's go with this. Even if no new concepts are added to "special" it should exist anyway. And to anybody that has a problem with triplessness I'm sorry. It is the future of freestyle and bitching about it won't do any good. Don't blame me or any of the B.A.P. for it either. It's an evolution. You can't tell yourself that you are not going to age. It happens. There are enough people that are going to be tripless this year that it will become a standard. If you don't do it then you won't be considered one of the best. Of course you don't have to if you don't want. I give credit to anybody that kicks. Like I said before all freestyle is beautiful. Personaly I just want to be the best I can be. So do others. If this includes eliminating three adds then if I don't eliminate 3 adds then I'm limiting myself. I think that a lot of people have worked hard to just be guiltless and now there thinking "Oh my god, no 3 adds either. I need those." No you don't need them. The whole deal about the "cool" 3 adds is an excuse. There is not that many of them anyway. If you want to hang with the best then get rid of your 3 adds. Don't be a pussy. Now I'm not expressing the view of all of the B.A.P. I don't know what they think. Being guiltless might still be good enough. It's just that the people who go tripless this year are the ones who are going to be looked at as the best. Thank you for listening. "Torch" heating this shit up From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 02:20:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA03562 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:20:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send1d.yahoomail.com (send1d.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.48]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA00745 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:31:56 -0700 Message-ID: <19981013223131.22055.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.191.24] by send1d; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:31:31 PDT Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:31:31 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] the NUCLEAR set To: Enlightener Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ---Enlightener wrote: > And paradox reverse miraging torque (Nuclear > Torque, or Nuclear Osis depends on how you look at it.) > Just to clear up some confusion on the 'nuclear torque' and 'nuclear osis': they are barely similar moves. 'nuclear osis' is actually 'pdox influx'. 'nuclear torque' is 'pdox rev. miraging miraging osis'... no I did not stutter, it's also 'pdox atomic torque' if you know what that is. that's what it iz. Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 02:20:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA03582 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:20:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mcfs.whowhere.com (mcfs.whowhere.com [209.1.236.44]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA00386 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:21:31 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by theglobe.com; Tue Oct 13 15:20:53 1998 To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:20:53 -0700 From: "Ian Dubman" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [freestyle] are lavers THAT good? X-Sender-Ip: 128.206.120.81 Organization: E-Mail @ The Globe (http://www.globe-mail.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:36:29 matt dick wrote: >hi i was wondering are rod lavers That much better than say a pair of >Vans or something? It's not that i dont want lavers, it is that i live >up hear in Canada (alberta) and not only will it cost me like $120 to >order from Wfa I might get the wrong size as i dont quite know how >adidas shoes fit. My opinion... Hell yes they are!!! Just kidding. Seriously, I noticed a big improvement in my kickin' when I strapped mine on. Vans, Airwalk, Simple, Teva, etc. can all work for you (some people even prefer them) but they are a bit more difficult to modify for freestyle (if that is your intentions). My recommendation would be to go to a department store and try on a couple pairs of different styles of Adidas. If they don't have any type of tennis shoes, try a pair of running shoes and/or court shoes. If several pair feel generally the same, or are around what you are looking for, then you have a good idea of what size to order in the Lavers. I personally prefer mine a bit tighter than my casual shoes, toes bend easier. Price?? Well, I don't have any suggestions there...sorry. Hope that was a least a bit of help. IAN NEO_MUFF "Free web-based email available now at http://www.theglobe.com" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 02:20:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA03596 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:20:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f235.hotmail.com [207.82.251.126]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA01762 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:40:18 -0700 Received: (qmail 607 invoked by uid 0); 13 Oct 1998 23:39:32 -0000 Message-ID: <19981013233932.606.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.72.213.135 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:39:32 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.72.213.135] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Q's on two moves Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:39:32 EDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Is there such a thing as a walk over in reverse? What I mean is a clipper stall and put your foot on the ground and take a back step over it. Would this be a 3 add or just a 2 add? okay, and oasis is when you spin into a clipper, like a right toe stall strait up and spin left and stall the bag with a left clipper behind your back, what is it called when you spin the other way, like a right toe stall set higher up and spin all the way to the right and end with a left clipper stall behind your back, Is this a spinning Oasis or something else? Steve Miskiewicz ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 02:20:47 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA03602 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:20:47 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03048 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:07:37 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id VAA05115; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:14:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:14:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] dynomite is taken In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Scott Davidson wrote: > We need to come up with a cool name for this phenomena, and to carefully > define it. How about "Dynomite"? dynomite is th 'JimmyWalker'.. dyno to dyno. Seen it all over- including by you, Scotty. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 02:20:51 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA03629 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:20:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02049 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:02:29 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA19365 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:02:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx10-48.ix.netcom.com(207.94.124.112) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma019304; Tue Oct 13 19:02:05 1998 Message-ID: <3623EB7E.1689@utdallas.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:08:58 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Mirage Help References: <3.0.1.32.19981012204211.006af9fc@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > >I can't seem to get the Mirage. I have a few questions. > > aadegl@mindspring.com wrote: > > Uh-oh. Prepare for the seven-page "D.Scalf Mirage Tutorial"... :) > I've got it one better this time. Not a 7 page tutorial, but a reference to my last post about mirages in the freestyle archives. This is a message to all "newbies": Everyone needs help learning moves. Everyone. That includes the few random punks on this list that moan about "newbie" questions. The absolute best way to get help starting out is to buy Tricks of the Trade from http://www.worldfootbag.com If you still need help on moves, that is what this list is for. Ask away. Even if no one else answers you, I will. It does get a little old answering the same questions over and over as new people join the list, so look through the freestyle archives at http://list.footbag.org Now, for the big ol' thing I wrote about mirages, go here: http://list.footbag.org/majordomo/letter/freestyle?id=%3C35F99855.65C7%40utdallas.edu%3E Personally, I think it is good advice. I got a few responses from some people saying that it helped them out. If you want to learn mirage, read what I wrote. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 02:20:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA03632 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:20:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (anaro@MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01385; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:18:11 -0700 Received: (from anaro@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/SAS.04) id TAA09286; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:17:57 -0400 (EDT) From: anaro@sas.upenn.edu (Alessandre S Naro) Message-Id: <199810132317.TAA09286@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] triplessness - revised... To: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Cc: enlightener@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <199810131809.OAA70364@dept.english.upenn.edu> from "Sunil Jani" at Oct 13, 98 02:09:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Here goes...DEFINITION: > > This extra add should be given in a toe to toe move in which at least > one dexterity is done with each foot and the move ends with the footbag > being stalled on the nonsetting toe. This add does not apply when the > first dexterity is done with the setting foot. Hello Freestylers, With a description like this, it can only be a COMPLEX add. That seems to fit in well with paradox and symposium. Thanks to the Torch for finally breathing some sense into this list, your approach to the add problem was right on. This way we will maintain the system that is gratifying for both beginning and veteran shredders. And if BAP is still pushing limits, there can be no denying triplessness, even if that shit will look ugly. Later, Alex (last survivor of Penn Footbag) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 02:20:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA03633 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:20:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02200 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:07:59 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA20007; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:07:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx10-48.ix.netcom.com(207.94.124.112) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma019989; Tue Oct 13 19:07:22 1998 Message-ID: <3623ECC7.7BE1@utdallas.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:13:59 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: matt dick CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] are lavers THAT good? References: <19981013213629.3104.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org matt dick wrote: > > hi i was wondering are rod lavers That much better than say a pair of > Vans or something? Yep. Vans are heavier. Vans don't have a toe box that you can modify. If you've never seen the Lavers, when you cut 'em up and lace 'em right, you can't miss a toe stall. That makes other moves easier because you don't have to worry so much about the toe stall. Try toe stalls with your vans and see how many of them slip off of the side. > It's not that i dont want lavers, it is that i live > up hear in Canada (alberta) and not only will it cost me like $120 to > order from Wfa I might get the wrong size as i dont quite know how > adidas shoes fit. > The WFA is great about helping people out. Call them and see what they say. My Lavers are a half size less than my other shoes if that helps you any. You need the right equipment for any sport. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 02:21:08 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA03660 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:21:08 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f270.hotmail.com [207.82.251.161]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA03194 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:16:57 -0700 Received: (qmail 15177 invoked by uid 0); 14 Oct 1998 01:16:23 -0000 Message-ID: <19981014011623.15176.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.209.197.61 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:16:22 PDT X-Originating-IP: [204.209.197.61] From: "matt dick" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] calgary/lethbridge shreders Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:16:22 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org anyone live in calgary or lethbridge alberta that would be up for a shred session ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 02:21:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA03673 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:21:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from rmit.EDU.AU (root@voga.rmit.edu.au [131.170.1.20]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03668 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:40:46 -0700 Received: from jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au (jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.EDU.AU [131.170.37.250]) by rmit.EDU.AU (8.8.8/8.7.3/ram4/ANTI-SPAM/ANTI-RELAY/VOGA) with ESMTP id LAA17765 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:39:57 +1000 (EST) Received: from APOLLO/SpoolDir by jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 14 Oct 98 11:42:36 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by APOLLO (Mercury 1.21); 14 Oct 98 11:41:40 +1100 From: "Lynton Stephens" Organization: Civil & Geological Engineering RMIT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:41:40 EST-10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [freestyle] Fairy Symp Eggbeater Priority: normal Message-ID: <16130E6582B@jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers!!- > Wow. You mean a fairy set followed by a symposium eggbeater? Wow. > I've heard a symposium eggbeater called a 'wifebeater', so I guess you could > call this beast of a triple dex move a fairy wifebeater. Hell, if > he's hitting that he can call it whatever he wants. Later. I hit this twice the other day and it seems my friend Brendan dobbed me in to the listserved for my efforts : ) I think of it as an OUT-IN double ATW with a symp. rev. mirage slotted in between. toe > same OUT > (no plant while) op OUT > op OUT > same toe That's 5 adds. The hardest thing is to do the fairy without it being *the* and still keep your balance and timing for the other two dexes. Tilting my foot inwards for the set really helps, but I only hit it rarely (it's probably 99% luck). I've been calling it a Juggernaut, but I never expected it to be new. The first time I hit it was in the cafe at uni with a novice freestyling buddy and heaps of others watching. The best 1 second of my entire life!!! Shred onwards!!! Lynton Stephens - Mebourne Footbag Club (M.F.C.) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 05:07:34 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA22406 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:07:34 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04464 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:27:18 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld653.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.152.163]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA10677 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981013192405.006c96b8@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:24:05 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: [freestyle] revised adds/trippless In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981013153213.006aa2fc@lcc.ctc.edu> References: <3.0.1.32.19981012150945.006a4530@lcc.ctc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > There are enough >people that are going to be tripless this year that it will become a >standard. If you don't do it then you won't be considered one of the best. > The whole deal about the "cool" 3 adds is an excuse. >There is not that many of them anyway. If you want to hang with the best >then get rid of your 3 adds. Don't be a pussy. Does anyone need any further argument for the pitfalls of emphasizing "tripless"? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 05:07:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA22400 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:07:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA05146 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:23:07 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA15000 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:22:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx10-48.ix.netcom.com(207.94.124.112) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma014904; Tue Oct 13 22:22:19 1998 Message-ID: <36241A82.53F0@utdallas.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:29:06 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] gyro legover Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org With all of the recent talk on merkons, I was wondering if a gyro legover has a name. Is there a cool name for this move? What I'm talking about is a gyro mirage except the dex leg catches the bag. A simple little three add move that I've seen GF Smoothie hit countless times on '97 Shred... Anyone know? And, while we are on the subject of names, does anyone know who came up with that wacky-ass name, "Merkon"? I love that name... it just sounds evil or something. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 05:07:38 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA22412 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:07:38 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04934 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:07:15 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA13179; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:06:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx10-48.ix.netcom.com(207.94.124.112) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013099; Tue Oct 13 22:05:58 1998 Message-ID: <362416AB.77AC@utdallas.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:12:43 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Miskiewicz CC: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Q's on two moves References: <19981013233932.606.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve Miskiewicz wrote: > > Is there such a thing as a walk over in reverse? What I mean is a > clipper stall and put your foot on the ground and take a back step over > it. Would this be a 3 add or just a 2 add? > Yep. There is such a thing. I believe it only gets 2 adds (it doesn't end in a x-body position so you lose that add) > okay, and oasis is when you spin into a clipper, like a right toe stall > strait up and spin left and stall the bag with a left clipper behind > your back, what is it called when you spin the other way, like a right > toe stall set higher up and spin all the way to the right and end with a > left clipper stall behind your back, Is this a spinning Oasis or > something else? Osis (no 'a' in there) is simply a spinning clipper. I'm a little confused about the way you are defining your spins. If you set osis from a clipper, it is a lot easier to follow. Stall the bag on your left foot clipper. Set the bag about waist high and directly beside you (this would be on the right side of your body). Plant the left foot, and get ready to catch the bag on your right foot clipper. Right before the bag hits your right foot, pivot on your left foot so that when the bag comes straight down onto your right foot, it will be in clipper position. Make sense? I try to watch the bag until right before I stall it. Then, I turn my head to the other side of my body to see the set into the next move. I don't ever actually see it being delayed. I do at least 20 consecutive osises before any shred session. That works both sides, and it is a really good move to bail to if you start to lose your balance. Hope this helps. Try not to scoop the bag on your osis. Remember that the bag should go straight up and down. Your body moves, the bag doesn't. -D A spinning osis is usually set from a clipper and goes like this: Left foot clipper set. I set them kind of high (around chest level) but I think that is just because I spin too slow to do it the right way. So, from your left foot clipper, set and spin away from the bag - the bag goes behind you. When you turn areound completely and the bag is in front of you again, don't stop.... keep spinning that same direction until you end up stalling the bag on a right foot osis. It is a double spinning move although that second spin - from the osis - is a bit weak. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 05:07:44 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA22439 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:07:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from sun.tir.com (sun.tir.com [205.138.41.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA05086 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:16:20 -0700 Received: from fli188.tir.com (fli188.tir.com [206.101.120.189]) by sun.tir.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA11734 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fli188.tir.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BDF6FF.E9A5EA20@fli188.tir.com>; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:19:23 -0400 Message-ID: <01BDF6FF.E9A5EA20@fli188.tir.com> From: Jay Moldenhauer To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] revised adds/trippless Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:15:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id DAA29596 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello Ahren, (and all other footbaggers) Jayman here, I met you back in Montreal the first time thru for the world's. This is a good thread, and well, I just have to add $.02, but I really believe the key is fun, which you have pointed out a couple of times. It shouldn't matter and it won't, unless you are in a tripless circle and you can't hang for lack of feeling truilty (guilty), and that is the matter of being able to go tripless. Going tripless is what will drive the game to the next level. Just as tilt & guilt play have done. But you know what I would love to see is, a tripless circle and somebody in the circle break out a cool string of whatever moves, because they are cool moves. Something along the lines of rakes, with pinches to whirl's, to sole stalls, to etc. etc., to breaking into tripless. Now that would be a hoot! To me having fun should always be the first and most important thing. But you have already pointed that out. Just one old guy's opinion...... Hope to see you in Chicago, seems how it is so close. Cya from the Jayman, p.s. Steve, Thank you from the bottom of my heart. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 06:28:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA06958 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:28:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (root@diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06426 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:07:37 -0700 Received: from tuhuge.sfsu.edu (madmax-4.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.4]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA17758; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981013230112.006a52f8@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:01:12 -0700 To: scalf@utdallas.edu, freestyle@footbag.org From: Tu Vu Subject: Re: [freestyle] gyro legover In-Reply-To: <36241A82.53F0@utdallas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:29 PM 10/13/98 -0500, Derric Scalf wrote: >With all of the recent talk on merkons, I was wondering if a gyro >legover has a name. Is there a cool name for this move? What I'm >talking about is a gyro mirage except the dex leg catches the bag. A >simple little three add move that I've seen GF Smoothie hit countless >times on '97 Shred... Anyone know? And, while we are on the subject of >names, does anyone know who came up with that wacky-ass name, "Merkon"? >I love that name... it just sounds evil or something. Later. merkon came from "marius" which i believe is a gyro egg-beater. gosh, if everyone goes tripless, i won't be able to show off my PHAT merkon next year. 2 huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 15:24:46 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA08708 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:24:46 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA09569 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:55:15 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA15727; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:01:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:01:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: merkon/marius In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981013230112.006a52f8@sfsu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > >names, does anyone know who came up with that wacky-ass name, "Merkon"? > >I love that name... it just sounds evil or something. Later. > > merkon came from "marius" which i believe is a gyro egg-beater. ...or something. I thought marius was inspinning torque. Anyway, Peter told me a story a couple of weeks ago that 'Merkon' was somebody or other's "cosmic name" whatever that means. > gosh, if everyone goes tripless, i won't be able to show off my PHAT merkon > next year. Not to mention diving and gimpie bdits. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 15:25:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA08717 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:25:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from [144.92.182.53] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id EAA101098 (8.8.6/50); Wed, 14 Oct 1998 04:52:38 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19981014044308.006be718@students.wisc.edu> X-Sender: berunkle@students.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 04:43:08 -0500 To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org From: ben runkle Subject: [freestyle] bubba set and merkon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I've seen the move names Bubba set and merkon mentioned quite a bit lately... what are they.. I can't find them on the moves list ben runkle shreddin' madison style From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 15:25:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA08737 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:25:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from iuakk.fi (qmailr@lux2.iuakk.fi [194.89.13.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA09035 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 04:16:14 -0700 Received: (qmail 18552 invoked from network); 14 Oct 1998 11:16:13 -0000 Received: from x2-56k.ppp.52.iuakk.fi (HELO iuakk) (194.89.12.118) by lux2.iuakk.fi with SMTP; 14 Oct 1998 11:16:13 -0000 Message-ID: <002f01bdf764$200c28e0$010000c4@iuakk.iuakk.fi> From: "pillar" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Mirage Help Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:16:38 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >I've got it one better this time. Not a 7 page tutorial, but a >reference to my last post about mirages in the freestyle archives. This >is a message to all "newbies": Everyone needs help learning moves. >Everyone. That includes the few random punks on this list that moan >about "newbie" questions. Hmm.. if there is other tutorials and that kind of stuff in the freestyle archives, could someone who have been in the list long enough to know those, gather all those and put them on one mail. That would be great help for all of newbies like me. thanks. - Juha L. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 15:25:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA08750 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:25:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f29.hotmail.com [207.82.250.40]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA10227 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:52:51 -0700 Received: (qmail 20991 invoked by uid 0); 14 Oct 1998 13:52:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19981014135220.20990.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 198.189.235.206 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:52:19 PDT X-Originating-IP: [198.189.235.206] From: "Ryan Sanders" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Ya lost me Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:52:19 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What is Merkon? Pardon my ignorance, Ryan Sanders ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 15:35:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA17241 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:35:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA24931; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:13:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcp117.atext.com(206.66.71.117) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma024817; Wed Oct 14 10:13:19 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19981014044308.006be718@students.wisc.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:13:45 -0700 To: ben runkle From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] bubba set and merkon Cc: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 4:43 AM -0500 10/14/98, ben runkle wrote: >I've seen the move names Bubba set and merkon mentioned quite a bit lately... >what are they.. I can't find them on the moves list bubba == clipper-set reverse mirage (clip > op out dex > op toe) merkon == spinning leg-over (clip > (back) spin > op out dex > same toe) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 15:52:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA17348 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:52:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dewdrop2.mindspring.com (dewdrop2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA11721 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:29:10 -0700 Received: from ms569185 (user-38ld6v4.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.155.228]) by dewdrop2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA19720 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981014082555.006b8f28@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:25:55 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Aaron de Glanville Subject: Re: [freestyle] gyro legover In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981013230112.006a52f8@sfsu.edu> References: <36241A82.53F0@utdallas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >merkon came from "marius" which i believe is a gyro egg-beater. isn't gyro eggbeater a "mantis" ? aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 15:59:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA17424 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:59:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA00782; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:33:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx10-48.ix.netcom.com(207.94.124.112) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma000646; Wed Oct 14 10:33:16 1998 Message-ID: <3624C5E4.D9A@utdallas.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:40:20 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ben runkle CC: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] bubba set and merkon References: <3.0.2.32.19981014044308.006be718@students.wisc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ben runkle wrote: > > I've seen the move names Bubba set and merkon mentioned quite a bit lately... > what are they.. I can't find them on the moves list > A Bubba set is pure hell. You know a blur set? It is opposite of that. A blur set is set from a clipper, and you do a quick mirage (IN dex) while you are setting. A bubba set is set from clipper and you do a quick rev mirage (OUT dex) while you are setting. So, a bubba toe stall would be a left foot clipper set. Right leg goes out to in. And, then you stall on your left toe. That is only two adds, but it is one of the most worthy two add tricks. I'm sure people were bitching about losing this move when everyone decided to go guiltless. And, a merkon... It is a spinning legover. Left foot clipper set, spin away from the bag (so it goes behind you), and then do an OUT legover with your right leg. Cool name for a move that really isn't that hard. I just like saying it... MERKON!!! (mur-kon) Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 16:00:59 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA17439 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:00:59 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12011 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:39:06 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA20143; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:38:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcp117.atext.com(206.66.71.117) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020060; Wed Oct 14 10:38:06 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981014082555.006b8f28@pop.mindspring.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19981013230112.006a52f8@sfsu.edu> <36241A82.53F0@utdallas.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:38:30 -0700 To: Aaron de Glanville From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] gyro legover Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 8:25 AM -0700 10/14/98, Aaron de Glanville wrote: >>merkon came from "marius" which i believe is a gyro egg-beater. > >isn't gyro eggbeater a "mantis" ? > >aa marius == spinning paradox torque (clip > (back) spin > op in dex > op osis) Not sure what mantis is, but I can believe it. Gyrating eggbeater sure looks cool. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 16:25:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA26010 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:25:26 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12203 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:43:01 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA01734; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:41:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx10-48.ix.netcom.com(207.94.124.112) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma001694; Wed Oct 14 10:41:32 1998 Message-ID: <3624C7CA.7656@utdallas.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:48:26 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pillar CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Mirage Help References: <002f01bdf764$200c28e0$010000c4@iuakk.iuakk.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Hmm.. if there is other tutorials and that kind of stuff in the > freestyle archives, could someone who have been in the list long enough to > know those, gather all those and put them on one mail. That would be great > help for all of newbies like me. thanks. > I think it would be great to eventually have some kind of long tutorial on each of the more basic moves. But, Steve is already overworked with trying to keep up with putting all of the new moves on the list, putting video clips with them, maintaining this mailing list, the club listing, etc. etc. etc. Get Tricks of the Trade. It has good advice on a lot of the moves. Beyond that, go to tournaments. Seeing people do things in person is much better than reading about them. Until something miraculous happens on footbag.org that allows us to link move descriptions from the moves list to a long question and answer type of thing, you can still go to http://list.footbag.org and do a subject search through the freestyle archives. You should be able to find what you need. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 16:46:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA01771 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:46:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from webster.lcc.ctc.edu (lcc.ctc.edu [134.39.132.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA13974 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:19:22 -0700 Received: from lab2.ctc.edu (134.39.132.50) by webster.lcc.ctc.edu (WORLDMAIL 1.3.166) for freestyle@footbag.org; 14 Oct 1998 09:22:12 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981014092348.006ad3d4@lcc.ctc.edu> X-Sender: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:23:48 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: Re: [freestyle] revised adds In-Reply-To: <16320ED0BC2@jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au> References: <3.0.1.32.19981013153213.006aa2fc@lcc.ctc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What the dilly yo?! Yesterday I said... >> I don't know what to call it but this is how I define it. >> An extra add is awarded to any miraging dexterity that follows a reverse >> miraging dexterity set. >> It does not matter if it's set from a toe or it's a parodox set or whatever. >> An atom smasher would now be 4 adds. An eggbeater would still be 3 adds >> becuase the first dex is not in the way of the second. >> I'm sorry but toe blur and the likes don't benifit from this change. They >> shouldn't. I know they seem harder but you can't just give them an add for >> no reason. If you can come up with a logical reason then let everybody know. Then Mr. Stephens said... >Nice, Ahren, that's a good, simple solution, but still not perfect >(IMHO you could never ever be perfect without resorting to a ROTE >leaned system, difficulty set by BAP opinion, whether or not that >is desirable/necessary/practical is the question). Only, why narrow >it down to just a reverse mirage? How about: >* An extra add is awarded to any mirage dexterity following a > toe set mirage dexterity (normal or reverse). Well... Like I said before, there has to be a reason to award an extra add. You can't just give a move an add because you feel like it. My reason for giving an in dex an extra add after an out dex is because the first dex is in the way of the second. Make sense? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 19:09:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA11616 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:09:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16025 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:18:50 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0T00H01XMSCA@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:20:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:20:52 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] revised adds/trippless In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19981012150945.006a4530@lcc.ctc.edu> To: Ahren Gehrman Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > When the Posse was formed they said no 1 adds. In '95 they said no 2 adds. > '99 is going to be the year of tripplessness for me and for many others. > If you can't do it then TOUGH SHIT! I do not want to offend anybody really > but this is reality. This is how it is. Okay, as I am about to go into a little fit here, let me preface this by saying that I consider you to be an outstanding player and I respect the amount of work you've put into getting to your place among the best. Now, are you saying triplessness will become a prerequisite? Does this now ruin my chances at being in the BAP next year when I can't go tripless? I've been working at eliminating my bailing 2's and I thought that by next year I might just make it in. So now what? Me and everyone like me who are closing in on finally being good enough to get into the BAP are being pushed back another how many years? How long did it take you to get to guiltless? From there how long did/will it take you to get to tripless? How many tricks in a row is good enough for tripless BAP nomination? Can I hit three in a row, or four, and be in the BAP? Doubtful! And what about the BAP members who aren't as good as you, the newer ones that is. Are they going to have to re-apply for BAP membership if they can only hit five 4's in a row before bailing to a 3 and passing it? "TOUGH SHIT" is easy to say and so is the encouraging words to keep on playing regardless, but you'll have to excuse that I'm offended anyway. I think your telling me that I can play, but not with or as the best until I can now go tripless instead of guiltless. That may be a reality for me, but it may also be an abuse of power for the BAP. I could tell by your original message on the subject that you wanted some sort of approval or consensus. Well, have you contacted every other member of the BAP and asked what they thought? If so then what did they say? What are the guidelines for membership? I hope it's not "TOUGH SHIT"? I suppose that if I want to be in the BAP I'm going to have to follow the rules laid out, but I'd like to hear a definitive statement made by all the BAP including the members who are a bit less frequently heard from. WOW, is this what politics is like? And when did hack become political or demagoguic? When the elite term became footbag??? Obviously there are laws and such, but are we coming closer to losing the pure nature of the game by titling and excluding? Namely FUN! Since Ahren referred to his business class, allow me to refer to one of my classes and relay a question to all for personal or group contemplation: What is your relationship to this sport/game/past-time? Is it just fun, is it competitive, is it just something to do, or does it take on a whole other meaning. Really, I'd like to know! BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 19:09:34 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA11630 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:09:34 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send104.yahoomail.com (send104.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.122]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA15963 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:15:27 -0700 Message-ID: <19981014181805.10297.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.194.77] by send104.yahoomail.com; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:18:05 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:18:05 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] new move... good luck To: Ahren Gehrman Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wudup? > You know what would be hein? A big apple with the opposite dex. So > instead of a symposium mobius, it would be a symposium gyro reverse torque. Yeah right ... gyro symposium influx ... yeah right. How about spinning pdox symp influx. Whoa (after seeing a bright light), has anyone done 'blurry influx'? ----------- Hmmm, Ahren joins the List and suddenly there is hot debate on triplessness... coincidence? :) Right on, Ahren, way to stir things up. I talked to Kamikenzie about a month ago and he's tripless now, too! I just joined you BAPs and already I feel left in the dark. I've only (decently) been going guiltless for about a year, so maybe I'll meet the new threshold in one more year. Probably not by next world's, though. Hey, wait for me guys! :) I wonder what you do about those tricks you're just learning. For me at least I can't go tripless into and out of new tricks everytime. Are you just going to leave new tricks out of your combos until they are mastered? It would make sense, although say you just started nailing bad side blurriest, but you're not totally comfortable with it yet; isn't there still that satisfaction you get from sticking both blurriests in the same run?, or is not rewarding enough until you can do them both in a TRIPLESS run? KEEP STRIVING FOR THE TRIPLESSNESSNESSSESSNESS! seeya, Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 19:10:50 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA11672 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:10:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Nageylum@aol.com Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16197; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:31:06 -0700 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id ODSBa10655; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:30:19 EDT To: brat@footbag.org, aadegl@mindspring.com Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] gyro legover Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 10/14/98 11:41:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, brat@footbag.org writes: > Gyrating eggbeater sure > looks cool. hey 'stylers, gyrating eggbeater, does the set leg do the first dex? JC From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 19:10:57 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA11685 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:10:57 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16402 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:38:16 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0T00E01YJ59V@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:40:18 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:40:17 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] tripless? In-reply-to: <2d94fb6d.3622b04d@aol.com> To: Owen Parrish Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > alright, it's time for the inexperienced, can hardly hit a mirage, Total > Package to speak. Why are we worrying so much about what this BAP group does. > In my opinion it doesn't matter if they can all go tripless are not. Stop > worrying about other people going tripless. Aim for it yourself. Skool hard. > Lord knows I am. PLease allow a moment of silence to reflect on when we were all at this stage. The newbies have wisdom beyond our footbag ability. AMEN Owen BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 19:11:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA11698 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:11:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0T00501YE9R5@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:37:21 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:37:21 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Mirage Help In-reply-to: <36ffa38.3622ae01@aol.com> To: SuperOwen@aol.com Cc: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I can't seem to get the Mirage. I have a few questions. > > 1) How high do you set? I usually set between knee and waist. Should it be > lower? Mirage is one of the tricks I've played with a lot for shits and giggles. There is a ton of time available and the set can be anywhere from your shin to ten feet above your head. I would say that a fair set would be about knee to waist high. > 2) Do you set, plant, then do the dex? Or kinda hop, set, and do the dex all > in one motion? Set, plant, hop, dex. > 3) Do you plant the dex foot before you catch it or do you hop mid-dex and > catch it as you dex foot is landing. The dex gets planted during the hopping motion so you are planting it before you catch. Try exaggerating everything and you'll get a clearer sense of what you need to do and what you can actually attain. BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 19:11:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA11723 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:11:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16563; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:47:27 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F0T00701YYHSI@clem.mscd.edu>; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:49:29 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:49:29 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] the NUCLEAR set In-reply-to: <19981013223131.22055.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> To: EZ Piltz Cc: Enlightener , freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > 'nuclear osis' is actually > 'pdox influx'. How about calling it Nucleosis? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 19:11:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA11736 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:11:26 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16641 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:49:51 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA21426; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:48:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcp205-122.atext.com(205.180.137.122) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma021388; Wed Oct 14 13:48:26 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:47:48 -0700 To: Nageylum@aol.com From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] gyro legover Cc: aadegl@mindspring.com, freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:30 PM -0400 10/14/98, Nageylum@aol.com wrote: >gyrating eggbeater, does the set leg do the first dex? Yes -- gyrating means "spinning into a move done with the setting leg doing the first dexterity". Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 20:05:59 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA28871 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:05:59 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from webster.lcc.ctc.edu (lcc.ctc.edu [134.39.132.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16990 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:06:53 -0700 Received: from lab2.ctc.edu (134.39.132.50) by webster.lcc.ctc.edu (WORLDMAIL 1.3.166) for freestyle@footbag.org; 14 Oct 1998 12:09:43 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981014121118.006ab5d8@lcc.ctc.edu> X-Sender: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:11:18 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: Re: [freestyle] revised adds/trippless In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19981012150945.006a4530@lcc.ctc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What the dilly yo? Mr. Brad said... > Now, are you saying triplessness will become a prerequisite? >Does this now ruin my chances at being in the BAP next year >when I can't go tripless? So now what? Me >and everyone like me who are closing in on finally being good enough to >get into the BAP are being pushed back another how many years? For one thing, I told you before that my views to not have anything to do with anybody else in the B.A.P. Guiltless may still be good enough. I don't know. However I do know this. The B.A.P. is the cream of the crop. The best. It's not the majority of all the pretty good players. Then you said... > "TOUGH SHIT" is easy to say and so is the encouraging words to keep >on playing regardless, but you'll have to excuse that I'm offended anyway. >I think your telling me that I can play, but not with or as the best until >I can now go tripless instead of guiltless. That may be a reality for me, >but it may also be an abuse of power for the BAP. Hold up. I said it before and I will say it again. What I say has nothing to do with any of the other posse. I DO NOT WANT ANY BAD MOUTHING OF THE BIG ADD POSSE BECAUSE OF WHAT I BELIEVE. I represent the posse through my freestyle and not through my politics. I am only a small fraction of the vote anyway. Don't worry I don't have the final word. >I suppose that if I want to be in the BAP I'm going to have to follow >the rules laid out, but I'd like to hear a definitive statement made by >all the BAP including the members who are a bit less frequently heard >from. I would also like to know what the others think. I know that some would agree and some would disagree. And now for some encouraging words. Everybody is whining and moaning about how they can't go tripless. I have news for you. You can! It's not easy but it's definately possible THIS YEAR for those who are already guiltless. Looking back, I think that if I would have practiced more that I could have been tripless back in '97 (my third year of kicking). Remember that it's part mental. If you say you can't then you won't. I hope to see everybody kicking their best this year no matter what their level. Shred the hein!!!!!!!! "Torch" P.S. Whether it's a requirement for the posse or not there are still going to be a bunch of tripless monsters tearing it up. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 20:06:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA28884 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:06:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send1e.yahoomail.com (send1e.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA17010 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:07:51 -0700 Message-ID: <19981014190451.9647.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.194.77] by send1e; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:04:51 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:04:51 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Tx State Highlights To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Howdy, y'all. Tx State was a lot of fun this year. A littles shreddin' going on; I think some nets were set up, too, but I didn't really notice. :) Merkon for some wierd reason was the trick of the tournament, Derric Scalf hit a new trick: FARRAKAN- fairy set merkon. Big Add Chad hit MERKON>paradon>MERKON>paradon, and everyone else and their pet hamster was hitting it both sides in combos for fun. A couple of us tried it in the competition, but we both missed- what's up w/ that 'missing easy tricks on stage' crap. Kung Fu Kyle Crawford was nailing phat double dexes all over the place, and I don't think I ever saw him miss blurry drifter out of about 100 attempts. Die Hard Dave Holton was busting, regardless of a neck injury, his usual long tripless strings of blurryduckingpixiedivingspinningdowndoubles. He's definitely Die Hard! Big Add Chad Devlahovic blew us away w/ blurry whirls, blurriests, vortices, mobiuses, pdox whirl>pdox whirl>barfly>barfly, and tons of other huge stuff. Illin' Eli Piltz (me) was bustin' hippie everything, ducking pdox symp whirl (H-Bomb?), a new trick- NUCLEAR WAR - pdox atomic whirl, and some most def ill comboz. Derric Scalf, like I said, nailed FARRAKAN; huge blur sets all over the place- he's been skoolin'. You're moving up, D! Tha Brat was busting his usual blurry whirl> blurry whirl> mobius> mobius combo, in addition to drifting rakes and ultra smooth style. As for Eric Burgess where the hell were ya'?!!! We wanted to implement the most complex judging system ever created, and you were out looking for rocks! As for the competition, Chad- 1st, Kyle- 2nd, Eli- 3rd. My utmost thanks to Tina Lewis for hosting this 14th annual event- seeya' at So. Reg. Hope to see some of you next year. I traveled over 1000 miles, so don't give me distance excuses. Oh, and it wasn't even very hot for TX standards- high in the low 90's. Other good news, I got my first real sponsor when I came back to Boulder- free kicking clothing and paid tournament entries, yippee! Adios, Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 20:10:48 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA28954 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:10:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send104.yahoomail.com (send104.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.122]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA17153 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:11:19 -0700 Message-ID: <19981014191351.1711.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.194.77] by send104.yahoomail.com; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:13:50 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:13:50 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] the NUCLEAR set To: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > 'nuclear osis' is actually > > 'pdox influx'. > > How about calling it Nucleosis? Sounds good to me. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 20:13:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA28972 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:13:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f62.hotmail.com [207.82.251.196]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA18027 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:49:23 -0700 Received: (qmail 15245 invoked by uid 0); 14 Oct 1998 19:48:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19981014194851.15244.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 198.189.235.187 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:48:50 PDT X-Originating-IP: [198.189.235.187] From: "Ryan Sanders" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] is it alright Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:48:50 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Is it O.K. to plant the setting leg, in a gyro set, before the dex is done. Ryan Sanders ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 21:03:02 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA04894 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:03:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA18315 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:14:14 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA18541; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:13:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcp205-122.atext.com(205.180.137.122) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma018405; Wed Oct 14 15:12:56 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19981014194851.15244.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:13:14 -0700 To: "Ryan Sanders" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] is it alright Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:48 PM -0700 10/14/98, Ryan Sanders wrote: >Is it O.K. to plant the setting leg, in a gyro set, before the dex is >done. Most people find that planting the gyro dex leg is usually harder because it requires extra work -- but there's no fundamental requirement that you leave the leg in the air. It's a gyro move whether you plant or not (though I personally don't think you should plant if you know what's good for you :-)). Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 21:30:48 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA13404 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:30:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f267.hotmail.com [207.82.251.158]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA18914 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:07:30 -0700 Received: (qmail 26235 invoked by uid 0); 14 Oct 1998 21:06:54 -0000 Message-ID: <19981014210654.26234.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.155 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:06:54 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.155] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu, kaplanb@mscd.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] revised adds/trippless Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:06:54 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi guys. When Kaplan wrote: > Now, are you saying triplessness will become a prerequisite? >Does this now ruin my chances at being in the BAP next year >when I can't go tripless? How many tricks in a row is good >enough for tripless BAP nomination? Can I hit three in a row, or four, >and be in the BAP? Doubtful! And what about the BAP members who aren't >as good as you, the newer ones that is. Are they going to have to >re-apply for BAP membership if they can only hit five 4's in a row before >bailing to a 3 and passing it? It got me to wondering, how exactly DOES one get into the BAP? Not that i have my eye on it or anything, but I am curious. Do the current BAP nominate and then vote? How does it work exactly? Do you have to renounce your current religion first? Do you get a special ring? Just wondering. KeN nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 23:41:41 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA23155 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:41:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send102.yahoomail.com (send102.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.90]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA19253 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:28:07 -0700 Message-ID: <19981014212852.19450.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.194.77] by send102.yahoomail.com; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:28:52 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:28:52 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] is it alright To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Brat wrote: > Most people find that planting the gyro dex leg is usually harder because > it requires extra work Well, for gyro butterfly it kinda helps gain your balance to plant, but for the others I agree. Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 23:41:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA23161 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:41:42 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f188.hotmail.com [207.82.251.77]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA19062 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:16:31 -0700 Received: (qmail 28291 invoked by uid 0); 14 Oct 1998 21:16:00 -0000 Message-ID: <19981014211600.28290.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.155 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:16:00 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.155] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org, footbagger@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] is it alright Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:16:00 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi hi. > >Is it O.K. to plant the setting leg, in a gyro set, before the dex is >done. >Ryan Sanders Sure. But then it just becomes "spinning" instead of "gyro," and (in my opinion) doesn't look as fluid. KeN nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 23:42:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA23213 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:42:10 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Allman144@aol.com Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id IYIBa22052 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:08:03 EDT To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Legbeaters Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) sub 7 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. I just need some tips on legbeaters. How high is the set and what about the hop(s)? It seems that if I set a legbeater from my right toe, the bag always falls directly under my butterfly dexterity leg (the initial set leg). Can anyone help? I would appreciate it. Sincerely, Tony Glick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Oct 14 23:42:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA23214 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:42:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from postoffice2.direcpc.com (mail.direcpc.com [198.77.116.30]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20736 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:37:51 -0700 Received: from direcpc.com ([206.71.114.112]) by postoffice2.direcpc.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-45425U50000L50000S0) with ESMTP id AAA23872 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:37:57 -0400 Message-ID: <35845E7B.CBA21F96@direcpc.com> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 18:36:28 -0500 From: Matt Avery Organization: 4th Dimension Interactive X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] blurry smp mirage? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey shreddaz! I was shredding yesterday, and wanted to try to hit a drifter, but instead of ending the move on the opp clipper, I wanted to catch it in a rake with the dex leg. Too complicated, well, just try to imagine what Im thinking here. When I actually started hitting it, I found out I was doing a blurry set, planting, then going to a symp. mirage. Would that classify as a blurry symp mirage? Looking for a new breed of custom bags? Check out Avery Bags!! http://members.tripod.com/MattAvery C ya guys. Matt Avery Avery bags From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 03:18:57 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA17623 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:18:57 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA23462 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:30:58 -0700 Message-ID: <19981015022915.5550.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.196.216] by send103.yahoomail.com; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:29:15 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:29:15 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] is it alright To: KeN Somolinos Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Sure. But then it just becomes "spinning" instead of "gyro," and (in my > opinion) doesn't look as fluid. > KeN > nyfD Sorry, Ken, planting when you gyro doesn't change anything, but how it looks- IT'S STILL GYRO! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 03:19:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA17637 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:19:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA22026 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:01:03 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA09930; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:00:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx10-48.ix.netcom.com(207.94.124.112) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009836; Wed Oct 14 18:59:55 1998 Message-ID: <36253CAB.2DDE@utdallas.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:07:07 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeN Somolinos CC: freestyle@footbag.org, footbagger@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] is it alright References: <19981014211600.28290.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org KeN Somolinos wrote: > > Hi hi. > > > > >Is it O.K. to plant the setting leg, in a gyro set, before the dex is > >done. > >Ryan Sanders > > Sure. But then it just becomes "spinning" instead of "gyro," and (in my > opinion) doesn't look as fluid. > KeN I have to disagree here. Gyro, as Steve mentioned earlier, means only that the set leg does the first dex. Spinning means that the other leg does the first dex. A spinning mirage feels almost paradox. Whereas a gyro mirage - with or without the plant - is much easier. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 03:19:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA17642 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:19:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21732 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:35:13 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id OXHGa22759 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <270e614d.36253423@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:30:43 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Tournaments Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have a few tourny questions. 1) Does anyone know of any PA tournys besides the Funtastik? 2) How diffucult is it to organize your own tournament? I figure if I can't go to one why not bring it to me. 3) How does one go about organizing a tournament? 4) Is there anyone in Western PA interested in organizing a tourny? or starting a club? Total Package From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 04:19:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA01939 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:19:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA24759 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:55:15 -0700 Received: from smegma (user-38ldad2.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.169.162]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA01619 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19981014235436.007b12e0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: ecrvich@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:54:36 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] revised adds In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981014092348.006ad3d4@lcc.ctc.edu> References: <16320ED0BC2@jacaranda.civgeo.rmit.edu.au> <3.0.1.32.19981013153213.006aa2fc@lcc.ctc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 09:23 AM 10/14/98 -0700, Ahren Gehrman wrote: >What the dilly yo?! Not sure. It's about 11:30pm EST, if that helps. >Then Mr. Stephens said... >>* An extra add is awarded to any mirage dexterity following a >> toe set mirage dexterity (normal or reverse). > >Like I said before, there has to be a reason to award an extra add. You >can't just give a move an add because you feel like it. My reason for >giving an in dex an extra add after an out dex is because the first dex is >in the way of the second. Make sense? It seems to me that, for toe-set double-dex moves (excluding moves where the same leg does both dexes), the "in the way" argument holds whenever the second dex is in-out (regardless of the direction of the first). Bah, what do I know. I'm not tripless, so I can't yet be considered "dope", "fresh", or "keen". Nor am I trippless [sic]. I haven't even seen The Trouble With Tribbles episode yet, come to think of it. Sigh...so many important things to accomplish, so little time... -- Ernest M. Crvich Durham, NC Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 05:28:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA19199 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 05:28:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f138.hotmail.com [207.82.251.17]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA25473 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:07:22 -0700 Received: (qmail 3624 invoked by uid 0); 15 Oct 1998 05:06:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19981015050651.3623.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.155 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:06:50 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.155] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: footbug@hotmail.com, scalf@utdallas.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org, footbagger@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] is it alright Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:06:50 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi >KeN Somolinos wrote: >> >Is it O.K. to plant the setting leg, in a gyro set, before the dex is >> >done. >> >Ryan Sanders >> >> Sure. But then it just becomes "spinning" instead of "gyro," and (in my >> opinion) doesn't look as fluid. >> KeN > >I have to disagree here. Gyro, as Steve mentioned earlier, means only >that the set leg does the first dex. Spinning means that the other leg >does the first dex. A spinning mirage feels almost paradox. Whereas a >gyro mirage - with or without the plant - is much easier. > Oh. There ya go, learn something new every day. KeN nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 06:19:03 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA03570 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 06:19:03 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (root@diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA25820 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:36:52 -0700 Received: from tuhuge.sfsu.edu (madmax-39.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.39]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA03497 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:36:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981014223436.006a6058@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:34:36 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Tu Vu Subject: Re: [freestyle] gyro legover In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981013230112.006a52f8@sfsu.edu> References: <36241A82.53F0@utdallas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org oopps, >merkon came from "marius" which i believe is a gyro egg-beater. serves me right e-mailing in the middle of the night. clarification: A marius is an inspinning torque and mantis is a gyro egg-beater. a merkon is just plain cool. 2 huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 06:29:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA03651 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 06:29:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26115 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:07:55 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA12632; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:07:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcptest78.atext.com(206.66.71.237) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma012622; Thu Oct 15 01:07:02 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981014223436.006a6058@sfsu.edu> References: <3.0.1.32.19981013230112.006a52f8@sfsu.edu> <36241A82.53F0@utdallas.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:07:28 -0700 To: Tu Vu From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] gyro legover Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:34 PM -0700 10/14/98, Tu Vu wrote: >serves me right e-mailing in the middle of the night. clarification: A >marius is an inspinning torque and mantis is a gyro egg-beater. Dude, you are still confused! :-) MARIUS is *not* inspinning torque. As I said a few postings ago, marius is spinning paradox torque. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 06:30:02 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA03666 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 06:30:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26087 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:02:15 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id BAA04708; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:02:11 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:02:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] right/left clippers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok, is a left clipper on the left side of the body (right foot) or on the left foot (right side of body)? I am confused because my friends say it is determined by what side of the body it is on but I have read messages and stuff that use what foot it is on. Thanks From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 06:37:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA12121 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 06:37:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26191 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:15:52 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA23010; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:15:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcptest78.atext.com(206.66.71.237) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma022998; Thu Oct 15 01:14:50 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:15:10 -0700 To: "Jeremiah J. Riely" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] right/left clippers Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:02 AM -0500 10/15/98, Jeremiah J. Riely wrote: >Ok, is a left clipper on the left side of the body (right foot) or on the >left foot (right side of body)? I am confused because my friends say it is >determined by what side of the body it is on but I have read messages and >stuff that use what foot it is on. We always use the ENDING CONTACT FOOT of a move to determine whether it is right or left. Since the set doesn't usually count in a move, it's what foot you ultimately stall or kick the footbag with that determines if it's right or left. For instance, a right clipper is a clipper delay done with the RIGHT FOOT. But the cool thing about the notation is that it is side-agnostic. Regardless of where you start, everything is relative so it always makes sense. Of course this only works when people understand the notation, which Scott Davidson swears he'll never do. :-) See http://www.footbag.org/movelist/ for more information on the freestyle move notation and other standards currently in use. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 06:44:55 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA12181 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 06:44:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from gravy.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26290 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:23:10 -0700 Received: (from casey@localhost) by gravy.netcomi.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id BAA19138 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:24:55 -0500 Message-ID: <19981015012455.A19123@hosting.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:24:55 -0500 From: Casey Zacek To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] right/left clippers Mail-Followup-To: freestyle@footbag.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: ; from Jeremiah J. Riely on Thu, Oct 15, 1998 at 01:02:11AM -0500 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jeremiah J. Riely spoke forth with the blessed manuscript: > Ok, is a left clipper on the left side of the body (right foot) or on the > left foot (right side of body)? I am confused because my friends say it is > determined by what side of the body it is on but I have read messages and > stuff that use what foot it is on. in The Notation (tm), 'left' and 'right' aren't used... but in conversation, i've found that 'left clipper' means left-footed clipper, and 'left-side clipper' means right-footed clipper and vice-versa for 'right' and 'right-side' clippers. -- -- Casey Zacek Senior Systems Administrator ICG Netcom Hosting From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 14:15:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA08811 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:15:10 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail.accnorwalk.com (mail.accnorwalk.com [207.87.221.24]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA29631 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 05:37:19 -0700 Received: from geo272 ([207.87.222.38]) by mail.accnorwalk.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release 0122 ID# 564-48782U3500L350S0) with SMTP id AAA47 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:38:43 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Vern DeHaven" To: Subject: [freestyle] Moving into the belly of the beast... Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:33:37 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bdf838$097d3720$056414ac@geo272.geotrac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org 26 yr. old SWM, looking for some F's and M's to shred with in the Columbus, OH area. Will be new to the area November 1st. Discreet, honest, and can hit a four when provoked. Please respond to vernd@geotrac.com. (Michigan still rulz) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 14:15:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA08817 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:15:14 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from gram (205-219-66-201.bayarea.net [205.219.66.201]) by baygate.bayarea.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA14248 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:39:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001101bdf807$0f1c14c0$c942dbcd@gram> Reply-To: "Jboy" From: "Jboy Gran" To: Subject: [freestyle] My thoughts on this matter (again) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:42:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >> > 'nuclear osis' is actually >> > 'pdox influx'. >> >> How about calling it Nucleosis? > >Sounds good to me. Wrong. 'Nuclear osis' is actually pdox. flux, also known as influx. There is a difference. >I'm sorry but toe blur and the likes don't benifit from this change. They >shouldn't. I know they seem harder but you can't just give them an add for >no reason. If you can come up with a logical reason then let everybody know. I know Ahren didn't see my last post about the new add system, but I'm sure he's not the only one forgetting about it. The first thing he said about new adds that started this whole new debate of a new category was *very* intelligent. It was exactly along my line of thinking. You can't just give adds to moves because you think that they need them. You have to have a reason why they are harder than other moves. So, the process goes as follows: think of a move that needs a higher add rating; find a reason it is harder than other moves of its class; test out your theory on other moves. Which is exactly what Ahren did. However, you all are clinging to an outdated system. We NEED a new system. Its like an old car. You could either spend a fortune buying new parts, having them installed, fixing things, getting it repainted; or you could just pitch it and get a new car for the same or less of a price. Whoever said that the paradox and symposium adds don't belong in the body catyegory was right. They belong in their own category. We can't keep changing the old system to fit our needs, it just wont work: there are too many additions already. I realize that my last idea of the "dex line" system (although perfect) was too difficult for the average freestyler to comprehend (especially with my written explanation instead of showing you). The reason that some moves are harder than others is because of how many times your leg *actually* circles the bag. In a toe set mirage, the bag is circled by the dex leg exactly one time (360 degrees). In a mirage from clipper, the bag is circled a *half* time (180 degrees). It is a hell of a lot easier, as long as you can do a clipper delay, yet they get the same add count. Why? Because no one cares about two add moves any more. No one cares about discrepancies in "guilt" moves (not that I really blame them). Now, here's the tricky part, so everyone pay very close attention. Why is a paradox mirage even harder than a regular mirage? The same reason as above. There are actually ***one and a half*** dexes in that move. Where is the other one, you say? The support leg for the clipper does a half dex while the bag is travelling over it. Obviously it is a lot easier than a dex going over the bag, but this is truly why a paradox move is harder than its non-paradox equivelent. The bag has to travel all the way across your body, and then back again. The same concept works for moves such as toe-blur and atom smasher. Also, on a lesser note, this solves the problem of the gyro/paradox debate, because it leaves the "double hip twist" (whatever the hell that is) idea behind. Jboy From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 14:15:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA08837 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:15:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: FIARBIRD@aol.com Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA27916 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:30:52 -0700 Received: from FIARBIRD@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id OMYGa04133 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:30:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7d37c1be.3625a497@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:30:31 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] weird leg move Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org this is my first posting on the list, i have been recieving it for a couple weeks now but with all this talk of "tripless", "nuclear", and 'Bubba" i almost thought my question wasnt worth asking but here goes. I do a weird delay which is kinda like an osis but without any spin element, my thigh and calf are in an aproximately the same position as an outside delay but my foot is inverted with the toes pointing backwards and the bag delayed on the inside surface. when doing this on my right foot and right side I will turn my head to the right to see the delay. Has anyone ever doneor seen this move or know a name for it. Jon Nagela From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 15:59:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA01890 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:59:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu ((IDENT root)@rac1.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.141]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id LAA07291; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:04:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu ((IDENT sendmail)@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id LAA06732; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:04:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) id LAA06716; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199810151504.LAA06716@rac1.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle-digest@majordomo.footbag.org, freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #487 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hello out there in freestyle world. long time no see. i can't believe i am writing to the list. Torch, its great to see you on the list, hyped up, psyshed up to motivate players. I only have one simple question- how can any one idea be the best for everyone? For all you new players out there, the temptation to be recognized as one of the best is always present, and being labeled BAP is the easiest, most popular avenue to choose to travel in this venture. Its well advertised, its merits are well known, and there are many loud voices expounding its self possessed virtues. By no means do I disrespect the Big Add Posse or any of its members. But I have no respect for oppressive mentalities. The original BAP, the only BAP i have ever desired recognition from, was a group of people for whom freestyle was more than a fun activity, more than a discipline to string hard combos. It was a group of people devoted to the exploration, creation and evolution of movements involving control of a footbag. A group committed to the evolution of the sport itself as well as themselves as skillfull players. If the only requirement to get into BAP at this point is to ignore the wealth of combination permutations available in three add moves, and tricky timed two adders, and discipline onself to crunch adds into as long a string as possible, then i say the easy road is paved- only one direction to go. do your situps, your crunches, and be sure to Skool hard anhour a day. Watch video, note the importance of lightning fast hip motions to get those dexterities out of the way fast. practice practice practice. at least you don't have to keep your mind open or be creative. just crunch and crunch more. AS fro me, and the recognition i claim to have desired, i got it. two or three years labeled 'on the doorstep' of BAP. And I honestly liked it there. Gave me more options. Right now i'm digging skoolin with the Executioner, original BAP smooth master. Hes hitting vortex, mantis, merkon, mobious, even big apple, in tripless combos, making some of the monsters look like easy four adds for how smooth they go by. and sometimes he's hitting gimpy didits, rake combos, eclipses ( a three add that would disappear in a tripless world ) spinning teardrops, squeeze combos, and the combos are no less impressive and sometimes greater to watch for their incredible variety. Do what you like, have fun, and encourage others to do so. Only in this way will you feel like the best. Don't even think about what anyone else is doing, just enjoy it when you can. For me, eh, i'm skoolin. Out in my far out boondocks of style, the road to BAP is barely discernible from the rest of the ground- I have a long trip to make before I reach the Paved path even. And i still dig the scenery where i am at. still exploring, heck, still learning, some basic three add moves. i'll stop rambling. Is the Chiseler out there? I'd really dig some wise words from him... kick a bag sometime. l8r- procrastinator From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 16:01:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA01906 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:01:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA31982 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:38:26 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA00429; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:37:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx5-59.ix.netcom.com(207.94.121.187) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma000411; Thu Oct 15 10:37:30 1998 Message-ID: <36261834.3BC9@utdallas.edu> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:43:48 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FIARBIRD@aol.com CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] weird leg move References: <7d37c1be.3625a497@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org FIARBIRD@aol.com wrote: > I do a weird > delay which is kinda like an osis but without any spin element, my thigh and > calf are in an aproximately the same position as an outside delay but my foot > is inverted with the toes pointing backwards and the bag delayed on the inside > surface. when doing this on my right foot and right side I will turn my head > to the right to see the delay. Has anyone ever doneor seen this move or know > a name for it. Jon Nagela Steve was doing this outside of the Olive Garden the other night. I still don't understand how people can bend that way. What did you call it Steve? Since we are talking about flaws in the add system, you just found one. This move, since it isn't cross body, or an unusual surface, is only one add. Can you believe it? I can do osis until I get tired, but I can't hit that one add move. Something is wrong there... Cool move. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 16:01:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA01919 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:01:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f eceived: from send1e.yahoomail.com (send1e.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA32002 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:38:55 -0700 Message-ID: <19981015153554.22570.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.195.6] by send1e; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:35:54 PDT Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:35:54 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] weird leg move To: FIARBIRD@aol.com Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > delay which is kinda like an osis but without any spin element. Has anyone ever done or seen this move or know a name for it. Jon Nagela This is what you call a 'frigid osis' (if I'm interpreting your description right). Brad Kaplan and Steve Goldberg do these. Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 16:15:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA10414 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:15:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA32151 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:48:36 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA27005; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:47:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcptest78.atext.com(206.66.71.237) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma026959; Thu Oct 15 10:46:48 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19981015153554.22570.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:47:13 -0700 To: EZ Piltz From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] weird leg move Cc: FIARBIRD@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 8:35 AM -0700 10/15/98, EZ Piltz wrote: >This is what you call a 'frigid osis' (if I'm interpreting your >description right). Brad Kaplan and Steve Goldberg do these. That's right. Only it's just one word -- frigidosis. Kind of like the name of a disease. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 18:50:17 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA20390 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:50:17 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA32399 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:01:30 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA03313; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:00:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx5-59.ix.netcom.com(207.94.121.187) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma003168; Thu Oct 15 11:00:04 1998 Message-ID: <36261D7F.45E@utdallas.edu> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:06:23 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Owen Parrish CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Tournaments References: <270e614d.36253423@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yo Total P. > > 1) Does anyone know of any PA tournys besides the Funtastik? > Look on the footbag.org events page. > 2) How diffucult is it to organize your own tournament? I figure if I can't > go to one > why not bring it to me. Really, it depends on how big you want it to be. My first tournament was a *lot* of work. We ended up with over $2000 prize money and a great site in the middle of an arts and music festival with thousands of spectators. The way I got people to come was by going through the club listing - again on footbag.org - and sending annoying little reminders to EVERYONE. It takes time, but if you want it to happen, it will. > > 3) How does one go about organizing a tournament? > Where to start? Pick a date. Find a good location. Get the location approved so that you won't get kicked out... sometimes the Parks and Recreation people can be real dicks. Get things to give out to players to make them come (T-shirts, footbags, prize money, free lunches, etc.). Make some fliers to mail out to people and hang up around college campuses and other places. Kick with anyone and everyone that you can find... tell them about the tournament and tell them to tell everyone they see. After about 8 months of promoting our tournament - Southern Regionals which is held annually in Dallas, TX in April - we still only had 40 competitors. I think the more often you do tournaments, the more likely you are to meet people. Once you meet people and get a few friends, you can call them and make them feel guilty for not coming. Then, once they decide to come, tell them to bring other people. It is all about networking. Oh yeah, you also need nets for the crazy net playing people. Paint to paint the net courts. Golf holes for the most underrated part of footbag. A nice flat place for freestyle competition. It is a lot of work. I'm not trying to discourage you... on the contrary, I want more tournaments everywhere. I would like to see it where you would have to qualify on a local or state level before you are invited to compete on a regional level. And then, you have to do good on a regional level before you can go to Worlds. That is when everyone would know that this is a valid sport. It is the duty of every footbag club around the world to put on at least one tournament a year. So, do it people! > 4) Is there anyone in Western PA interested in > starting a club? > Looks like you are. If you aren't on the club list, get on it. That is how I met many of the people I kick with today. We just consolidated all of the little one and two person clubs around the Dallas area. Now, we have a good 20 member club. If we can do it, you can do it. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 19:44:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA04744 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 19:44:20 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from webster.lcc.ctc.edu (lcc.ctc.edu [134.39.132.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02431 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:51:34 -0700 Received: from lab2.ctc.edu (134.39.132.56) by webster.lcc.ctc.edu (WORLDMAIL 1.3.166) for freestyle@footbag.org; 15 Oct 1998 11:54:19 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981015115554.006af944@lcc.ctc.edu> X-Sender: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:55:54 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #487 In-Reply-To: <199810151504.LAA06716@rac1.wam.umd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Whazup?! This will be my last discussion about going tripless because obviously I'm just pissing people off. So listen close. >Torch, its great to see you on the list, hyped up, psyshed up to motivate >players. That's all I'm trying to do. >I only have one simple question- >how can any one idea be the best for everyone? It's not. >By no means do I disrespect the Big Add Posse or any of its members. >But I have no respect for oppressive mentalities. Wait, wait, wait! For one thing I'm not oppressing anybody. I'm telling the truth. I'll I've been saying this whole time is that there will be people going tripless and others will follow. It's gonna happen. I have absolutely no control over it. >If the only requirement to get into BAP at this point is to ignore the wealth >of combination permutations available in three add moves, and tricky timed >two adders, and discipline onself to crunch adds into as long a string as >possible, then i say the easy road is paved- only one direction to go. >do your situps, your crunches, and be sure to Skool hard anhour a day. >Watch video, note the importance of lightning fast hip motions to get those >dexterities out of the way fast. practice practice practice. >at least you don't have to keep your mind open or be creative. >just crunch and crunch more. Who said you can't kick both ways. I still kick for fun. At Worlds, a bunch of us including Peter and Greg and the Chiseler did some free flow. It was awesome. It was really fun. I'll probably try and get everybody together and do it again. On the other hand, at least as long as I've been around, getting in to the posse has gotten harder. I didn't make up the god damn rules saying you couldn't do 1 adds or 2 adds and I'm not making up any rules now. It's the posse who made them. The same posse who is just trying to have fun. >Right now i'm digging skoolin with the Executioner, original BAP smooth master. >Hes hitting vortex, mantis, merkon, mobious, even big apple, in tripless >combos, making some of the monsters look like easy four adds for how smooth >they go by. That's what posse circles will look like this year (except nobody is as smooth as Peter) and... >and sometimes he's hitting gimpy didits, rake combos, eclipses ( a three >add that would disappear in a tripless world ) spinning teardrops, >squeeze combos, and the combos are no less impressive and >sometimes greater to watch for their incredible variety. That's what we'll do to just goof around and have fun like always. Nothing is changing. >>Do what you like, have fun, and encourage others to do so. >Only in this way will you feel like the best. >Don't even think about what anyone else is doing, just enjoy it when you can. Now I wouldn't even care if anybody else went tripless really. But there are some people who do care about being at the top and for them they should know what the standard is gonna be. I'm trying to be your guys' god damn friend not your dictator. >Is the Chiseler out there? I'd really dig some wise words from him... Yeah, let's gang up on me now. Ahren is the bad guy (the oppressor). You better watch out because I'm going to come in the middle of the night and steal your creativity away. Should my name be the Torch or the Boogyman. I'm not doing anything. I'm just letting people know what's gonna happen this year so they aren't left behind. Let me tell you a story. It's 1994, my first worlds. I'm just starting to discover freestyle and I find out that in order to be considered worthy you can't do one adds. So all year I school tiltless. What happened. 1995, the year of guiltless. Yep, set back another year. 1996, I finally caught up. I know exactly how it feels to be left behind. So I'm just trying to give a helping hand to those who care. If you don't care then that's fine. Like I said before(LIKE I'VE ALREADY SAID BEFORE) having fun is the whole point of footbag. So if you just wanna have fun that's great. For me having fun is pushing myself to greater heights so that's what I'm gonna do. "Torch" holler if ya hear me! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 20:35:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA21881 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:35:26 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Nageylum@aol.com Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03220 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:47:11 -0700 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id ANCHa02341; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <44b558df.36265116@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:46:30 EDT To: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: vortex trouble (was Re: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #487) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 10/15/98 3:25:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu writes: > Yeah, let's gang up on me now. Ahren is the bad guy (the oppressor). You > better watch out because I'm going to come in the middle of the night and > steal your creativity away. Should my name be the Torch or the Boogyman. i'm scared of the boogyman, i always thought he lived under my bed, but now i know he lives on the west coast, i feel better now. thanks Ahren "torch (boogyman)" Gehrman. but seriously, i was wondering if anyone had any advice on how high should a vortex should be set. just kinda wondering cause i thinking about how to do it and i have no luck find a good set heights. Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 21:52:59 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA06374 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 21:52:59 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from webster.lcc.ctc.edu (lcc.ctc.edu [134.39.132.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05023 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:27:01 -0700 Received: from lab2.ctc.edu (134.39.132.41) by webster.lcc.ctc.edu (WORLDMAIL 1.3.166) for freestyle@footbag.org; 15 Oct 1998 14:29:51 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981015143127.006b1da4@lcc.ctc.edu> X-Sender: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:31:27 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: Re: vortex trouble (was Re: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #487) In-Reply-To: <44b558df.36265116@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What up? >but seriously, i was wondering if anyone had any advice on how high should a >vortex should be set. just kinda wondering cause i thinking about how to do it >and i have no luck find a good set heights. You can pretty much pull of a vortex from an height set but it's probably best to set it barely above waist high. Then remember to keep your leg tucked in until you've turned around. By the time you've turned around the bag should be set just right to do just like you would a normal drifter. Of course you have to experiment because everybody has different leg lengths and styles and so on. Good luck. "Torch" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 21:52:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA06369 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 21:52:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send102.yahoomail.com (send102.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.90]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA04712 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:14:19 -0700 Message-ID: <19981015211451.10481.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.196.50] by send102.yahoomail.com; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:14:51 PDT Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:14:51 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: [freestyle] What it REALLY iz / pdox atom smasher To: Ahren Gehrman Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What's up, Boogyman + other shreddas. yo peep this, Who ever said that going tripless means losing your creativity? There's more creativity with hard new tricks and tough combos than I ever experienced at a lower level of play. Just imagine how much fun it must be to hit ripwalk > superfly > whirlwind > spinning butterfly. Although footbag is fun at all levels of play, I believe that the better one's skills become, the more fun you have; one reason being that you know what it took to get where you are- self-discipline, hella skoolin', injuries, etc. So strive to be better, and let Ahren's words inspire you (his intentions), not intimidate you. Ahren said about atom smasher: > I think I specified pretty much that the set doesn't matter. So if it's a > parodox you still get the add. It's like parodon and barfly. Same add > count, different set (toe vs. clip) I disagree. Pdox atomsmasher does get a pdox add in addition to the extra add, because the first dex is a pdox rev. mirage; barfly's 1st dex is a butterfly. You'd be saying pdox legbeater and nuclear war don't get an extra add for the pdox set. Know what I mean? With the new system: atomsmasher = 4 add, Pdox atomsmaher = 5 add, pdox legbeater = still 5 add, atomic whirl = 5 add, nuclear war = 6 add. Sounds logical to me. Whachoo think? Illin' Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 22:23:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA14930 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:23:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail.accnorwalk.com (mail.accnorwalk.com [207.87.221.24]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05472 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:52:59 -0700 Received: from geo272 ([207.87.222.38]) by mail.accnorwalk.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release 0122 ID# 564-48782U3500L350S0) with SMTP id AAA119 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:54:32 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Vern DeHaven" To: Subject: [freestyle] A 2-add not listed Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:49:23 -0400 Message-ID: <000901bdf885$ae182a40$056414ac@geo272.geotrac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, There's a move my friend taught me a few years ago that's among the harder 2-adds in my opinion. instep > same out > same outstep I think it's even more fun this way: clip > same out > same outstep It's a strange move because of the contortion your body makes transferring from an inside delay (or clipper) to same outside. Hey, if "Guay" can get named, this one definitely deserves a name too. He called it a "Spaghetti Gourd". Great name; I feel like that when I'm doing it. Any thoughts? Water, footbag, food, and shelter (in that order), Vern P.S. I guess the BAP can *really* ignore the funk outta this one, eh? :) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 22:24:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA14952 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:24:10 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from webster.lcc.ctc.edu (lcc.ctc.edu [134.39.132.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05667 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:59:19 -0700 Received: from lab2.ctc.edu (134.39.132.41) by webster.lcc.ctc.edu (WORLDMAIL 1.3.166) for freestyle@footbag.org; 15 Oct 1998 15:02:10 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981015150346.006b1b74@lcc.ctc.edu> X-Sender: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:03:46 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: [freestyle] Re: What it REALLY iz / pdox atom smasher In-Reply-To: <19981015211451.10481.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eli monster and co. You said... >I disagree. Pdox atomsmasher does get a pdox add in addition to the >extra add, because the first dex is a pdox rev. mirage; barfly's 1st >dex is a butterfly. You'd be saying pdox legbeater and nuclear war >don't get an extra add for the pdox set. Know what I mean? >With the new system: atomsmasher = 4 add, Pdox atomsmaher = 5 add, >pdox legbeater = still 5 add, atomic whirl = 5 add, nuclear war = 6 >add. Sounds logical to me. That's what I meant. You get the add for both the atomic/nuclear dex and the parodox. Sorry about the confusion. "torch" > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 23:33:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA03060 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:33:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f80.hotmail.com [207.82.250.186]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA06220 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:29:18 -0700 Received: (qmail 22414 invoked by uid 0); 15 Oct 1998 22:28:47 -0000 Message-ID: <19981015222847.22413.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.209.197.246 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:28:47 PDT X-Originating-IP: [204.209.197.246] From: "matt dick" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] what's with my juice Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:28:47 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hi i just got my juice and twisteds in the mail today and i must say they kick ass. I also got my tricks of the trade video. There is onlky one thing, my juice is really small as is my twisted. They are like a half in smaller than my adidas tango in diameter is this normal???? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Oct 15 23:49:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA08000 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:49:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from ems.salk.edu (ems.salk.edu [198.202.69.12]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07223 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:20:20 -0700 Received: from [198.202.67.148] (198.202.67.148) by ems.salk.edu (Worldmail 1.3.167) for freestyle@footbag.org; 15 Oct 1998 16:23:06 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:23:11 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Cameron D Kennedy Subject: [freestyle] where is X-mas jam? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello stylers! Where is the X-mas /new years jam going to be this year? cameron From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 01:26:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA00831 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:26:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA08449 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:01:55 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA18758; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:01:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx36-61.ix.netcom.com(207.94.123.253) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma018616; Thu Oct 15 20:00:34 1998 Message-ID: <36269C34.40BE@utdallas.edu> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:07:00 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: matt dick CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] what's with my juice References: <19981015222847.22413.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org matt dick wrote: > > hi i just got my juice and twisteds in the mail today and i must say > they kick ass. I also got my tricks of the trade video. There is onlky > one thing, my juice is really small as is my twisted. They are like a > half in smaller than my adidas tango in diameter is this normal???? > Juices are all about the same size. Twisted bags are usually a bit bigger. The more they break in, the bigger they'll get. I don't know about an Adidas Tango, but it is probably too big. There is a limit on the size a footbag can be in competition... I think it is 3" diameter. Juices are 2.25" I think. I could just be talking out my ass, but I know that when I sew bags, I make them 2.25" diameter and they are about the same size as a juice. Get used to small bags. They make dexterity moves easier. You don't have to go around so far... Welcome to the world of a good footbag :) Is it facile? I'm guessing that the twisted is. Facile = Good. Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 03:14:54 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA02317 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:14:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09925 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 19:51:47 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id WAA21458; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:58:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Tournaments In-Reply-To: <36261D7F.45E@utdallas.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > 3) How does one go about organizing a tournament? > > Recreation people can be real dicks. Huh. You should try organizing an event here. 15 million people + less than 4 square miles of park = draconian establishment = no easy task. Some good stuff listed, but there are a lot of little things that you are bound to forget- music system, schedule, chairs, clipboards, paper and pens, more blank paper, entry forms, judging sheets, a broom, a waiver on the entry form so you don't get sued when someone twists an ankle, insurance on the site for the same, someone to watch the $$, someone to sit at your table to sell the extra t's and hand out fliers with FAQ's (you might need a permit to sell stuff - am I missing anything, Lampshade??) Oh, yeah- lunch. Don't forget to eat. I'm sure there's more, but it helps to brainstorm and get it all down. If you *really* are interested in running an event, there're lots of people on the other mail server who do such things- just write an email to footbag@footbag.org and say something like "I'm running a tournament this spring/winter/equinox/solstice. What do I need to do? You'll be amazed how much info you get. JP it might be a good idea to get this all in one place- like maybe, on a website that anyone in the worlds could access? Hmm. now, if there were only a 'worldwide service for free footbag information' what an amazing concept. GO STEVE! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 03:45:41 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA10923 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:45:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send1d.yahoomail.com (send1d.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.48]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA10341 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:22:47 -0700 Message-ID: <19981016032219.5111.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.194.105] by send1d; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:22:19 PDT Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:22:19 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] juice q's / breakin' / patchin' To: matt dick Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Matt, > There is only > one thing, my juice is really small as is my twisted. They are like a > half in smaller than my adidas tango in diameter is this normal???? Auuggghhhgghhhh!, don't panic. Bags expand in time as they break in. Don't rush the break-in period, or your bag will be sooooo floppy before you know it that you won't be able to set it off your foot. A lot of people are using smaller bags these days, but some of the original BAPs still dig the delapidated bags that will disentigrate if you look at them too hard. (Gently) hand wash your bags a few times w/ mild soap to get them started well, and continue to do this when they get dirty and stiffen up. Watch out for panels *blowing out*, they sometimes do as they mature through adolescence: the best remedy I've found is to cover these areas with an extremely thin layer of Silicon Sealer (for aquariums), let it fix over night, and it will hold up forever. Some use fabric glue, but I feel it's too stiff. Good luck! Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 06:28:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA20797 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:28:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: FIARBIRD@aol.com Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA11129 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:47:33 -0700 Received: from FIARBIRD@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id OCNOa02341 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:46:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6ce7ac37.3626ddc2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:46:42 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] reverse eclipse Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org last wekend a friend of mine-Zeke, hit amove where he did a hop over immediately to a "reverse eclipse"? he brought it back under his support leg the way it came. Is this move called a reverse eclipse? 3 adds right? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 17:00:51 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA03463 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:00:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from gravy.netcomi.com (fit.netcomi.com [204.58.155.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA13075 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:08:37 -0700 Received: (from casey@localhost) by gravy.netcomi.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id DAA26772 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:10:35 -0500 Message-ID: <19981016031035.A26755@hosting.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:10:35 -0500 From: Casey Zacek To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Tournaments Mail-Followup-To: freestyle@footbag.org References: <36261D7F.45E@utdallas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: ; from Magically Delicious Josh Penney on Thu, Oct 15, 1998 at 10:58:30PM -0400 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Magically Delicious Josh Penney spoke forth with the blessed manuscript: > (you might need a permit to sell stuff - am I missing anything, > Lampshade??) hey don't knock the lampshade golf holes, jp -- -- Casey Zacek Senior Systems Administrator ICG Netcom Hosting From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 17:01:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA03477 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:01:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15728 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:17:24 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.18] (d56.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.56]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA18028; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:17:16 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:14:28 -0600 To: Cameron D Kennedy , freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson Subject: Re: [freestyle] where is X-mas jam? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Cameron and Freestylers! >Where is the X-mas /new years jam going to be this year? I was hoping to host it in Chicago this year, but we are also planning a MAJOR FREESTYLE TOURNAMENT for early March of '99 with over $1000 prize money (hopefully, way over) JUST FOR FREESTYLE (no golf, consec's or net sucking away the prize money pool)!!!! We don't want people to burn out on Chicago before worlds, and we really want big attendance for the freestyle event (hitherto unannounced, and destined to take the place of the mudshark in your mythology) in March. If New Years jam is in Vegas this year, none of the midwesterners will make it, probably not Peter too, and since it was always a midwest thing to do, I would like it to come back this way. What would you think about the New Years Jam in Chicago in early January, a major freestyle tourney in Chicago in early March, then Midwest Regionals in May, and 99WorldsChicago in late June or July (still no date set yet). How many of you could make it to all, how many to all but regionals? See ya! Scott Davidson Midwest Footbag Association 773.237.9255 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 17:02:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA03485 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:02:07 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15714 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:17:14 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.18] (d56.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.56]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA17965; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:17:03 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <44b558df.36265116@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:03:37 -0600 To: Nageylum@aol.com, gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu, freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson Subject: Re: vortex trouble (was Re: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #487) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! >but seriously, i was wondering if anyone had any advice on how high should a >vortex should be set. just kinda wondering cause i thinking about how to do it >and i have no luck find a good set heights. I use a variety of sets for this move, but the most consistant are a couple of inches over waist height. Spin early, spot and go. Good luck! See ya! Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 17:04:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA09689 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:04:13 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mailhost.onramp.net (mailhost.onramp.net [199.1.11.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16422 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:03:25 -0700 Received: from acsdallas.com (ppp16-57.dllstx.onramp.net [206.50.201.184]) by mailhost.onramp.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA06409 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:03:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from james [144.19.62.4] by acs_dc [144.19.62.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:03:37 -0500 Received: by james with Microsoft Mail id <01BDF8F3.A0611420@james>; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:56:28 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDF8F3.A0611420@james> From: James Roberts To: matt dick , "'EZ Piltz'" CC: "freestyle@footbag.org" Subject: RE: [freestyle] juice q's / breakin' / patchin' Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:56:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id QAA27582 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Elmer's Stix-All works well, too. It's dry after 30 minutes. You can get it at craft stores - i.e. MJ Designs. Make sure not to "blob" it on. Put a drop on the hole and smear it on with your finger, creating a film-like layer and you'll be good-to-go. JR ---------- the best remedy I've found is to cover these areas with an extremely thin layer of Silicon Sealer (for aquariums), let it fix over night, and it will hold up forever. Some use fabric glue, but I feel it's too stiff. _________________________________________________________ From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 17:04:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA11925 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:04:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from rac8.wam.umd.edu ((IDENT root)@rac8.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.148]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id MAA25358; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:30:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: from rac8.wam.umd.edu ((IDENT sendmail)@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac8.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id MAA08879; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac8.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) id MAA08863; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199810161630.MAA08863@rac8.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle-digest@majordomo.footbag.org, freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #488 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everybody and Torch. Procrastinator here apologizin' for any misunderstandings. Torch, I do not see you as a bad guy, but i did see your words as reflecting only half the picture, and responded in anticipation of how low your high words might have compelled others. I do not see you as an oppressor. The mentality that only the BAP is the best, is the top, that to 'keep up' and 'not get left behind', or 'tough shit' I see as symptoms and expressions of oppressive or oppressed thinking. As are the notions that to be seen as the best or the top one has to be BAPtized In 1994, when you first arrived on the seen, you felt you weren't worthy for what you had done. And now you are recreating that experience for others. On the positive side, you are genuinely encouraging others by showing them the next step. You are an insightful freestyler, true to form to the original BAP circle for your ability to visualize moves, and whats greatest of all about you is your ability to teach what you know to others, and motivate others to enjoy trying the new moves. Thats where the fun is at- the exploration and development of new skills. Also, I don't believe i implied being BAP put a constraint on how creative one can be. I did imply it put a constraint on the number of tools for creative expression. And that the notion to go tripless is what is most worthy may take away from more creative exploration in other ways. have a good day- procrastinator, aka Vince Bradley From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 17:20:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA12000 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:20:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f273.hotmail.com [207.82.251.164]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA14910 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:36:16 -0700 Received: (qmail 1109 invoked by uid 0); 16 Oct 1998 13:35:45 -0000 Message-ID: <19981016133545.1108.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.142 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:35:40 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.142] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] adds, trippless(final word) Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:35:40 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sorry if Im a bit behind on all this (computer problems) but here is my cent>opp cent. So the BAP is finally going tripless, something I thought would happen in 98`. Thanks to the Torch for giving us warning. Like it or not this is really the next level of play, however what does it really mean? The problem I see with going totally tripless is not just a matter of leaving out "cool" 3 add moves, some 3 adders are actually more difficult than some 5 adders. The next level of play scouldn¥t mean we should leave out difficult moves, and limit variety because of the add system. I would say that maybe 5%-10% of common moves are screwed by the add system. Of cource if we ask what makes a move common, ie why are the 3 add bail moves like osis and butterfly so common then it wouldn¥t be much of a stretch to say that many moves are made popular by their add rating, and so I guess that something like 15-20% of all moves are missgrouped. This isn¥t nearly acurate enough to be truly meaningful. If we are using the groupings of the add system to mesure the level of play then realize that the add system isnt really a test of difficulty, as Scott has said it is a test of uniqueness, but even this it doesnt do especially well. To assume it mesures difficulty is to assume that an inspinning kick is exactly as difficult as a reverce mirajing kick, is exactly as difficult as a toe stall, ect. because acording to the add system all the add elements are worth exactly one point. For this reason just "patching" the system, as the paradox add atempted to do, doesnt work. It just helps some moves and doesnt help others. By the time enough patches are put in to fix the holes it is far more complicating than just scraping the whole thing for something new. Really its amazing it works as well as it does. However using this system as a basis the BAP (or atleast some of them) are going to go trippless. Really this is generally more difficult however if someone happens to do atom smasher> to double switchover> toe blur would you kick them out of the circle, because it was "easier" than pixi butterfly>dada curve>dino? Personally I don¥t worry, I know that no matter what the BAP does in shred circles, they will still be working on and exploring those lesser known, and still unatempted 3,4,5,6,7 and yes even some of those 2 add moves. However the BAP ar rolemodels and I¥m sure that because the BAP are now tripless every intermeaniat player is going to be doing ripwalk to ripwalk, torque until I fall asleep. Im glad that we¥ve gotten to the next level of play, just don¥t get to hung up on add values, atleast unless it actually means something. -Andrew P.S. and totally unrelated, what exactly is big apple sauce? Torch/Boogy man described it as symposium mobius, the move list describes it as gyro blurry symposium torque(some how I doubt that) and when I asked Kenny way back when he showed me a paridox miraje into a blender clip>same in>opp in>back spin>same clip acording to the add system 6 adds, and by my system (FMET) 7. Anyone? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 17:53:54 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA20567 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:53:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA18201 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:32:03 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA07609; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:30:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx1-46.ix.netcom.com(207.94.120.110) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma007544; Fri Oct 16 12:30:17 1998 Message-ID: <3627843D.5078@utdallas.edu> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:37:01 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Casey Zacek CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Tournaments References: <36261D7F.45E@utdallas.edu> <19981016031035.A26755@hosting.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Casey Zacek wrote: > > Magically Delicious Josh Penney spoke forth with the blessed manuscript: > > (you might need a permit to sell stuff - am I missing anything, > > Lampshade??) > > hey don't knock the lampshade golf holes, jp > > -- heheh... I was wondering if anyone would bring up the fond memories of recent Texas tourneys with the bitchin' (yes they are regulation size) golf holes. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 22:23:03 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA32063 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 22:23:03 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from webster.lcc.ctc.edu (lcc.ctc.edu [134.39.132.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19032 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:00:49 -0700 Received: from lab2.ctc.edu (134.39.132.54) by webster.lcc.ctc.edu (WORLDMAIL 1.3.166) for freestyle@footbag.org; 16 Oct 1998 11:03:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981016110512.006b2348@lcc.ctc.edu> X-Sender: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:05:12 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: [freestyle] Big apple/big apple sauce In-Reply-To: <19981016133545.1108.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Stylers, What's what? >P.S. and totally unrelated, what exactly is big apple sauce? Torch/Boogy >man described it as symposium mobius, Correction. I said the big apple (not the big apple sauce) was a symposium mobius and I'm right. and... >the move list describes it as gyro >blurry symposium torque(some how I doubt that) and when I asked Kenny >way back when he showed me a paridox miraje into a blender >clip>same in>opp in>back spin>same clip acording to the add system 6 >adds, and by my system (FMET) 7. Anyone? the big apple sause is, well, hard to explain. Let's say you start with right foot clipper. R clip, gyro set, plant your right leg, in dex with left leg, in dex with right leg (symposium), left foot osis. As for the add count, it should be 8 adds. gyro 1, parodox 2, dex 3, symposium 4, dex 5, body 6, stall 7, X-body 8. Some people argue about the first dex being a parodox, but I think it is. "Torch" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 22:23:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA32084 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 22:23:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from postoffice2.direcpc.com (mail.direcpc.com [198.77.116.30]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19259 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:19:18 -0700 Received: from direcpc.com ([206.71.114.112]) by postoffice2.direcpc.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-45425U50000L50000S0) with ESMTP id AAA18743 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:19:38 -0400 Message-ID: <3586C4ED.7FF2CE61@direcpc.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:18:05 -0500 From: Matt Avery Organization: 4th Dimension Interactive X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] where is X-mas jam? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey guys! I went to last years Xmas Jam, and was under the impression it was an East Coast deal? Or is that the East must Jam I am thinking about? Ive heard it both ways Matt Avery Avery footbags http://members.tripod.com/MattAvery Scott Davidson wrote: > Hi Cameron and Freestylers! > > >Where is the X-mas /new years jam going to be this year? > > I was hoping to host it in Chicago this year, but we are also planning a > MAJOR FREESTYLE TOURNAMENT for early March of '99 with over $1000 prize > money (hopefully, way over) JUST FOR FREESTYLE (no golf, consec's or net > sucking away the prize money pool)!!!! We don't want people to burn out on > Chicago before worlds, and we really want big attendance for the freestyle > event (hitherto unannounced, and destined to take the place of the mudshark > in your mythology) in March. > > If New Years jam is in Vegas this year, none of the midwesterners will make > it, probably not Peter too, and since it was always a midwest thing to do, > I would like it to come back this way. > > What would you think about the New Years Jam in Chicago in early January, a > major freestyle tourney in Chicago in early March, then Midwest Regionals > in May, and 99WorldsChicago in late June or July (still no date set yet). > How many of you could make it to all, how many to all but regionals? > > See ya! > > Scott Davidson > Midwest Footbag Association > 773.237.9255 From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 22:25:34 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA32106 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 22:25:34 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from rac6.wam.umd.edu ((IDENT root)@rac6.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.146]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id PAA17073; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:51:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: from rac6.wam.umd.edu ((IDENT sendmail)@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac6.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id PAA12149; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac6.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) id PAA12136; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199810161951.PAA12136@rac6.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle-digest@majordomo.footbag.org, freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #488 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey again, rereading a copy of what i wrote, apparently i did write > at least you don't have to keep your mind open or be creative. > just crunch and crunch more. which i guess does indicate some disrespect to the creativity of BAP tripless pursuits. My apologies to all who took offense, as it was not my intent to do so. My voice got carried away with the need to contrast the contrary, to fall the mighty, to disrespect in the face of the demand for it. I was trying to merely indicate that the single minded pursuit of tripless strings may affect the creative flow of discovering combinations. instead of looking at what it would be awesome to hit independent of actual skill level, it is easy to stick with what is known and end up caught in a limited repertoire of skills, a phenomenon i have seen happen, have experienced, and know to be frustrating. for me, this is where the low add moves come into play to keep a flow going while i still have to skool some three adds to put in their place. as i promoted to tiltless because tilts don't feel right to me in rhythmic style i am having trouble staying guiltless with the same rhythms, and need some serious skoolin before i'll be near tripless. hitting the higher adds to rhythms i dig is something i need to work on. I find that some of the serious add crunchers are hard to hit on beats i like. yeah, i too follow the path of continual skill development, and of course it is strictly for my own reasons, my own intrinsic reward. as has been said now, possibly too many times, kick because it is fun, have fun kicking. its FREEstyle, do what you like. l8r- vince From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 23:20:48 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA16364 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 23:20:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f73.hotmail.com [207.82.250.159]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA22452 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:46:08 -0700 Received: (qmail 7719 invoked by uid 0); 16 Oct 1998 21:45:37 -0000 Message-ID: <19981016214537.7718.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.209.197.117 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:45:36 PDT X-Originating-IP: [204.209.197.117] From: "matt dick" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] adds??? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:45:36 PDT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi i was wondering exactly how the add system works. Is it like when you do say a toe delay it counts as 1+ the 1add= 2 or is it just like 1add= 1. is this how it works or am i totally confused. could someone please straighten this matter out for me. thanx <-MaTt-> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 23:21:38 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA16377 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 23:21:38 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22853 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:06:41 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.94] (d94.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.94]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA23504; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:06:21 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19981016133545.1108.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:55:50 -0600 To: "Andrew McCargar" , freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds, trippless(final word) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Andrew! At 6:35 AM -0700 10/16/98, Andrew McCargar wrote: > I would say that maybe 5%-10% of common moves are screwed by the >add system. Of cource if we ask what makes a move common, ie why are the >3 add bail moves like osis and butterfly so common then it wouldn*t be >much of a stretch to say that many moves are made popular by their add >rating, and so I guess that something like 15-20% of all moves are >missgrouped. This isn*t nearly acurate enough to be truly meaningful. A very high estimate, I believe that is pretty far off. > If we are using the groupings of the add system to mesure the level of >play then realize that the add system isnt really a test of difficulty, >as Scott has said it is a test of uniqueness, but even this it doesnt do >especially well. Please 'splain. >Really its amazing >it works as well as it does. However using this system as a basis the >BAP (or atleast some of them) are going to go trippless. Really this is >generally more difficult however if someone happens to do atom smasher> >to double switchover> toe blur would you kick them out of the circle, No, we would bow down and make them our leader. :-) :-0 >I*m sure that because the BAP are now >tripless every intermeaniat player is going to be doing ripwalk to >ripwalk, torque until I fall asleep. Im glad that we*ve gotten to the >next level of play, just don*t get to hung up on add values, atleast >unless it actually means something. When intermediates go "guiltless" it is usually too soon. They should develop their twos, expand on all of them in every direction, then add threes into there... the threes will be easy to learn because their basics are in order. Then, the three's will eventually become basics and, therefore no longer as challenging... and players should base their strings on the threes with a focus on fours... once they have enough variety in fours, they should consider skoolin' tripless. Believe me you, I dwelled a long time in "tiltless" mode, and again, a long time in "guiltless" mode, and I don't advocate the fast track, although some may disagree. I think that anyone who can pull of ten ripwalks in a row as their "shining" example of "triplessness" has not quite perceived the concept of "honor". Since I have gone tripless, my strings have focused on the huge variety of fours and fives available in my personal arsonnel, I am constantly challenged by how well they go together, and the new unique strings that just happen. I love tripless, it is a personal achievement and tons of fun for me. When a player gets bored with threes, they need to look ahead. As far as the system goes, it needs a few tweaks, but to throw it away and start from scratch is way-overkill. OTOH, if you want to say the "add system is for judging uniqueness" and the "Madd or Radd system is for measuring difficulty, maybe it would mean something to the players. I really think you are straying away from an opportunity to tweak the existing system (which is a somewhat realistic possibility). Our efforts should, first, be focused on making the current system somewhat more acceptable. If we are fast, we could get it approved electronically via the larger IFAB (must be before Dec. 31). See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 23:21:47 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA16390 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 23:21:47 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22820 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:06:08 -0700 Received: from [207.208.101.94] (d94.tcg1.interaccess.com [207.208.101.94]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA23430 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:06:02 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:37:18 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson Subject: Re: [freestyle] where is X-mas jam? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! >>Where is the X-mas /new years jam going to be this year? >What would you think about the New Years Jam in Chicago in early January, a I just talked to Josh Casey, and he might be up for hosting it that weekend right after the new year, possibly starting on new years eve day and continuing through the long weekend. He has a big house to crash in and party at, a gym right down the street and he can get 50% off pizzas. So, that is a HUGE possibility, being in Ann Arbor, MI (a way cool town too). See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 23:31:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA16463 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 23:31:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Allman144@aol.com Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id IUIZa22760 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:46:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:46:03 EDT To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Wuh? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 190 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Okay, I looked at the moves list to try and find these and they weren't there, so don't yell at me. What is a 1) gimpy didit? 2) spinning teardrop? and 3) whirlwind? Keep on kickin' on. Sincerely, Tony Glick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Oct 16 23:32:57 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA16479 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 23:32:57 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23629 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:09:15 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA17427 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:09:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcp205-70.atext.com(205.180.137.70) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma017411; Fri Oct 16 18:08:47 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:09:14 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Real names Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi folks. Just a quick note from your friendly list administrator. Okay, sometimes maybe not so friendly. :-) Heh heh. Several folks have recently changed their return addresses, or joined the list, with names that are not their real names. This means that the From: line in their outgoing e-mail has been their nickname or some other name, but not their real names (or any semblance thereof). I don't mind if you use a nickname to refer to yourself, but I think it's really important for your real name to be somewhere in your outgoing mail, especially in the From: line. (No, I'm not referring to Magically Delicious Josh Penney -- in that case, adding extra words is okay with me as long as you include your full name in there; but Josh already knows that.) However, when someone sends e-mail to the list and uses only a nickname or e-mail address to refer to himself, it is problematic and against my list policies as I've communicated in the past. I have built this virtual online community as a way for us to get to know each other and to have discussions as a group. I don't offer this mailing list service as an anonymous service, and when people post messages without their full names (first and last names) both in the signature and in the From: line, they are violating that policy. Minimally, if you can't set the From: line correctly, you should take care to sign all your messages with your full name. I find that many people on the e-mail list end up meeting in person at a tournament or other event at some point. It's really nice when that happens. But if you don't know someone's real name, you may never even realize it happened. Thanks for listening. Steve P.S. If you're unaware how to set your return address on outgoing e-mail to include your full name, let me know and I'll guide you through it. Enlightener and Feuerdrache, please change your full names or I will continue to do it for you. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Oct 17 02:00:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA26516 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 02:00:36 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id UAA28434; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:51:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:51:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney To: Allman144@aol.com cc: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Wuh? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Okay, I looked at the moves list to try and find these and they weren't there, > so don't yell at me. What is a 1) gimpy didit? 2) spinning teardrop? and 3) > whirlwind? Keep on kickin' on. It's our job as freestylers to stay innovative an inventive beyond the capacity for people to write it down. So by the time I've told you thi there will be at least three more moves you won't know. 1. mirage from clipper to a knee kicked, hopping double knee kick. 2. spin into a knee delay with the foot planted 3. symposium spinning whirl and flail is paradox symposium reverse mirage and mobius is gyro torque and big apple is symposium mobius and big applesauce is blurry symposium mobius and scorpion tail is spinning down double down and superfly is symposium barfly and poisonous toad is spinning superfly (or symposium scorpion tail, depending on how you look at it) and now there are at least ten more moves you're going to ask me about later, but maybe someone else will have different answers. JP ps.'symposium' is greek for "dinner party" pps. Frank don't appreciate it when you don't pay him royalties, Scott. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Oct 17 07:08:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA21781 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 07:08:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA27472 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 22:32:22 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA15919 for ; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:32:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx48-01.ix.netcom.com(198.211.45.65) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rmaa15818; Sat Oct 17 00:31:45 1998 Message-ID: <36282D42.4D94@utdallas.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:38:10 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] practicing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all. I wanted to talk about something other than triplessness for a while. I could go tripless if I wanted to, but I think I'll put it off until Worlds 2000 just for fun :) Really, I've just started getting comfortable with guiltless. And, this brings me to my question... To practice, I do drills every day. These drills consist of the basic kicks, toe stalls, inside stalls, around the worlds (both ways both feet of course), mirages, legovers, clippers, butterflies, infinities, and osi. I was hoping that by being able to do 20 in a row of any of these moves, I would improve my stamina and consistency. Also, when I kick with other people, I try for at least one 20+ contact guiltless string befor I let myself quit for the day (this was Sunil's idea). I see myself improving a little in string length, but I find that I throw in way too many of the easier 3's... butterflies and osi. I'm sure that this has something to do with the fact that I've been practicing these moves. And, NOW to my question(s)... What do you guys do to practice? What kind of drills do you do? Do you do the same drill every day? Or change it up from day to day? The main reason I started with the drills is to be sure that I focus equally on both sides. My weak side has stayed at the same level while my strong side keeps improving... this is unacceptable. Any advice on good ways to practice? I want to be able to hang with the big boys some day, but for now, all that I can think to do is skool the easy threes. I plan on working up to 10+ whirls on each side and 20+ consecutive drifters some time down the road (hopefully before worlds). It all comes down to this: I want to get REALLY good. What has worked for others? Scott? Torch? Eli? Anyone? I have the drive... now all I need is a coach. A personal trainer and dietician would be nice, too. Anyone want to move to Dallas? Tell me what will work and I will do it. Later. -D(erric Scalf) <-- Happy Steve? :) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Oct 17 17:24:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA27885 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 17:24:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: SuperOwen@aol.com Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA30782 for ; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 08:38:20 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id OCIEa02341; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:29:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8eb8e0d.3628b7d6@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:29:26 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org, footbag@foorbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Tournaments (cont.) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If I held a tournament in Pittsburgh how many of you would be interested in coming? Anyone that has held a tournament before, help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Owen "Total Package" Parrish From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Oct 17 17:24:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA27891 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 17:24:36 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA30808 for ; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 08:42:03 -0700 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id LAA04530; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:48:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Magically Delicious Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] practicing In-Reply-To: <36282D42.4D94@utdallas.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > with other people, I try for at least one 20+ contact guiltless string > befor I let myself quit for the day (this was Sunil's idea). I see Oh, that Sunil. He did the same to me. > The main reason I started with the drills is to be sure that I focus > equally on both sides. My weak side has stayed at the same level while > my strong side keeps improving... this is unacceptable. Sometimes it really feels that way, but keep pluggin and one day when you're not thinking about it you'll amaze the hell out of yourself. > Any advice on good ways to practice? I want to be able to hang with the > big boys some day, but for now, all that I can think to do is skool the > easy threes. This works pretty well: butterfly, butterfly, drifter, repeat. This works both sides while working your stamina, because you're putting it in a guiltless string you can already do. in fact the formula works well for any move that switches sides- you can go drifter, blurry whirl, paradox whirl, repeat. It doesn't really matter what you use, but remember the more you practice specific combos the better you dial them in. Practice strings you want to be able to hit. Double legover, double over down, blender, paradox drifter, repeat (but that drill works one side- throw a butterfly at the end or in place of the paradox drifter and you've got a groove thing happening.) Turn on the radio, lace up the shoes- go go go! > I need is a coach. A personal trainer and dietician would be nice, > too. Anyone want to move to Dallas? Tell me what will work and I will > do it. Later. Check out my earlier post re: Total Frustration . Most of it is from Sunil's ramblings but it should do. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Oct 17 18:10:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA12166 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 18:10:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: ShReDStEiN@aol.com Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA32031; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 10:49:50 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id WHEZa29193; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 12:51:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 12:51:14 EDT To: scalf@utdallas.edu, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] practicing Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 10/16/98 11:00:43 PM, scalf@utdallas.edu wrote: << Also, when I kick with other people, I try for at least one 20+ contact guiltless string befor I let myself quit for the day >> Thats the root of it all Derric... and don't worry Dallas "and LA" are both big cities that don't have their fair share of hardcore stylers....I gotta move up to SF. Later shred heads. ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Oct 17 21:30:46 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA30426 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 21:30:46 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send1d.yahoomail.com (send1d.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.48]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA01031 for ; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:10:02 -0700 Message-ID: <19981017210932.27975.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.194.228] by send1d; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:09:32 PDT Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:09:32 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] practicing/ sound advice To: scalf@utdallas.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Howdy, Texan + non-Texans. > What do you guys do to practice? What kind of drills do you do? JP's advaice was good on creating combinations to skool. But my style is a bit diff. I just skool fours, either independently or in 2 trick combos- keep changing up those combos, it will keep your creativity active, and you'll learn more unique combos faster, and it's less tiring. For that bad side, skool twice as much and twice as hard as the good. I find that it's easier to devote all your attention on tricks when you do just 1 or 2 at a time. Well, D, You mentioned whirl. It may sound crazy, but when I wanted to dial whirl, I skooled whirling swirl (variable times each session). Whuduya' know, I can now hit whirling swirl on command, and just plain whirl is just plain EASY. This doesn't work for everything, like drifter: I wouldn't skool High Plains. You also mentioned STAMINA. Your stam doesn't have to come from shredding exclusively: I think it's a poor way to boost stamina actually. You need AEROBIC activity to work your cardio and there4 stamina. Try long bike rides w/ many uphill battles, this is also good 4 your knees, as Forest pointed out. Don't go jogging, that's pretty harsh on your knees. And as Scott pointed out, work your upper body also to help full body ciculation and reduce lactic acid build up. So I think swimming laps is the best form of full body workout- killer on the lungs and stamina. I have three words: YOGA, YOGA, YOGA. Never be injured again, have better awareness of your body and its movement, excellent for flexibilty- better than stretching alone, and sooooo much more. Try it don't be shy, or "too much of a man". > A personal trainer and dietician would be nice, Ok, take vitamins and drink tons of water everyday. I'd recommend vit. E, B-complex, and C. And GO VEGETARIAN, we have strength-efficient muscles, and animals will like you more. Here's my BEST advice: MOVE TO BOULDER !!! Later, Ill Monster Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Oct 18 07:55:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA12341 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 07:55:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from webster.lcc.ctc.edu (lcc.ctc.edu [134.39.132.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01268 for ; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:43:55 -0700 Received: from lab2.ctc.edu (134.39.132.43) by webster.lcc.ctc.edu (WORLDMAIL 1.3.166) for freestyle@footbag.org; 17 Oct 1998 14:46:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981017144820.006b35ec@lcc.ctc.edu> X-Sender: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:48:20 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: [freestyle] X-mas jam Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Stylers! How bout an X-mas jam in SanFrancisco. I'm going down there this winter anyway. What do you think? "Torch" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Oct 18 17:17:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA09681 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 17:17:36 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from footbag.pp.kolumbus.fi (m122m12hel.dial.kolumbus.fi [193.229.103.122]) by mail1.kolumbus.fi (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA05411 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:22:19 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <3629CF98.6927@pp.kolumbus.fi> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 13:23:05 +0200 From: Justin Sexton Reply-To: footbag@pp.kolumbus.fi Organization: Kolumbus X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-KBUS (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Opinions from far North... References: <199810142330.XAA14676@eniac.yak.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey you all, this is Justin Sexton from Finland, It has been fun reading all the conversation on the list lately. All this talk about changing the add system or creating a new one. Now I want to remind you that it takes a while teach it to a new player or trying to explain it to somebody who does not know the add system. It is still simple enough ecxept for the paradox moves, which should be clarified. In the Finnish "List of 50+ freestyle moves" which we send to every joining member of the Finnish Footbag Association (there are 1070 members at the date), we explain that you get the paradox add from bringing the dexterity leg back in front from the cipper stall. Of course we get questions like "do I get a paradox add from doing infinity" very often and when I reply them that you don't and of course they ask my: "why", and it is very hard to expain it. I think Steve did a good job on it, but I think it still too complicated to explain to a new player. So my point is that I think that if we want to fix the system to credit moves that are harder than their add values we should not do it at the cost of the system getting more complicated. I really think that it would be a good idea to have a sixth gatecory for the "special" moves like paradox, symposium, duck/dive & gyro. In this gategory we could add elements to credit the moves that need more credit, for example "getting the first dex out of the way" problem. In to the judging system this sixth gatecory would fit fine if we would take the 2 points out of the drop score, and give those 2 points to the "special" or "extra" or whatever we would decide to call it. This way we would also see more flyers & spins in the routines which would be great for the audiance who does know anything about the add/judging system. Now this would be patching, and it would require one more judge, allready to our complicated judging system. But if we would want to chance the system totally there would be a problem how to let everybody know about it. About people going trippless I think it is good for them who are on that level. I saw Scott hit 20+ trippless combo at Northen Illinois Open and it made me think in different way. The problem with this is that a lot players will go or try to go tripples without even being truly guiltless. One thing that I don't like about people going trippless is the promotion of the freestyle footbag and footbag in general. If you do a show or if you get a groud watching you freestyle, forget about any inside rules, I mean "tripp?", "guilt", "tilt", even "the" if that helps you do those flyers, spins, unusuals and that damn pendulum. Now I am not talking about a circle of BAPs and alike who meet to show their skills for each others example at worlds, but in normal kicking sessions. I don't know any of the BAP's policy about new people getting in to be "one of the best", which is a one big goal (I would think) to a lot of freestylers. I think the BAP has blown to be too big. In the other hand I think that the more open for new members -policy has brought a lot of new hardcore freestylers which I think is more important than have the small elite group of players who to look up to, even if it happens on the cost of the elite group becoming to be *too* big, which we actually should only be happy about. I remember meeting Tuan and Tu years ago in DC and we had a great freestyle session at their house, that was when I first heard about tilting and guilting system and learning that and teaching that to a lot new freestylers has been a real good tool. Now I would think that going trippless could be a good tool for the best ones to even get better. Also I think lot of people would try to do it at the cost of learning the basic three add moves because they want to step to a circle with the best ones without looking fool with doing three add moves. I know that the "best ones" would not think that way but the new player stepping in to the circle might. Why learn any flyers, because all you can do is the butterfly kick with a something in front of it, why learn any unusuals you can't use them anyway in the future ecxept for competiton stuff like this makes me worried. Now I am happy that I don't think this way but somebody might think and act this way and I think a lot of players will. Good thing about it is that it really takes the game to a new level and that you really have to work you both sides. Butterfly stall becomes ripwalk, paradox mirage = blur, osis = dino/blender, etc. It really ain't that much different, just a new level. In my opinion think I still think that it would be bad if people would start thinking that being "good enough" means being trippless. Just my toughts, gotta go practice my flyers. thanks for reading, Justin Sexton FFA From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 19 01:40:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA23981 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:40:13 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send104.yahoomail.com (send104.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.122]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA13824 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 17:15:30 -0700 Message-ID: <19981019001824.8706.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.191.37] by send104.yahoomail.com; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 17:18:24 PDT Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 17:18:24 -0700 (PDT) From: EZ Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Re: shin splint relief To: Magically Delicious Josh Penney Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi JP, If your shin splints persist, try this exercise: Squeeze a thinly-rolled towel with your toes as if it were a stress ball for your hands. You should feel a tiny muscle along the front of your shin bulge out. Keep strengthening this puny muscle and never have shin splints again (unless you play on your heels). A good counter-stretch is: w/ leg straight, point your toes and press them into the ground to force them into a "fist". That will give you a good stretch along the front of your shin. I'm not only the Shin Splint Rehabilitation Center President, but I'm also a client. Eli Hope you feel better, "Juggernaut, because I know you're unstoppable". _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 19 01:40:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA23972 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:40:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: NikeekiN@aol.com Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13539 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 16:49:42 -0700 Received: from NikeekiN@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id OGSa010441 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 15:28:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <377d5d0d.362a4164@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 15:28:36 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Mirage Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Casablanca - Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, I am new to the list. I have been playing for like a month or so. I am having a terribly hard time with Mirage's. Do you have to twist your hips? Do you jump, or jump just a little. Should I concentrate on the dex or toe stall. Off the subject, is the Twisted facile footbag any good, or should I get the Facile Juice. Thanks a lot. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 19 16:19:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA10156 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:19:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu ((IDENT root)@rac9.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.149]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id LAA29088 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:21:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu ((IDENT sendmail)@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id LAA27570 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) id LAA27561 for freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199810191521.LAA27561@rac9.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #491 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hear Hear Justin. YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! (standing ovation- my office mates really think i'm whacked now ) - Vince Bradley From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 19 16:40:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA18681 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:40:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from sprynet.com (janej@copper.cobaltgroup.com [207.149.72.59]) by m9.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA25402 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <362B6609.AF3D5B43@sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:17:13 -0700 From: Jane Jones Reply-To: iguana04@SPRYNET.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org" Subject: [freestyle] Re: Eugene tournament this weekend References: <19981019153517578.AAA225@LOCALNAME> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Becca English-Ross wrote: > Forest Schrodt is organizing freestyle circles also. > Ah-ha! Cool! I was just about to ask if it would be worthwhile for a few of us to drive down there to freestyle this weekend. Looks like I may have a car full of people heading down that way then. Yahoooooooo! Looking forward to kicking with everyone who can show up! Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 19 21:49:25 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA06014 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:49:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29163 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:16:50 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F1300501F7MY9@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:18:59 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:18:58 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] unusuals To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yesterday, Eli and Jon Schneider were discussing unusual surfaces as well as unusual other things. One of them had suggested getting rid of the surfaces part and just lumping them in with things like dragons (and frigidosis, and ankers and the like) to just be an UNUSUAL category. From that conversation I'd like to post some thoughts. A butterfly swirl caught on a dragon is (this may be relative) harder than a regular butterfly swirl and maybe deserves an extra add any time the bag is caught on a dragon. Of course, going from a clipper to just a dragon catch may not be that hard for most and maybe not worthy of an extra add unless there is a dexterity involved 1st. Any thoughts? This also applies in some way to the frigidosis. Though I believe it to be harder than a dragon catch it may not be depending on flexibility of the person doing it, but should get an extra add especially when performed with a dexterity. For instance, when doing a blender you get 4. I believe it goes dex/bod/xbod/delay. Well if you do a blender but stop at the frigidosis I think it out to be dex/bod/unusual/delay. I think there are many holes in this idea, but that with refinement it could get worked into something feasible. Unless it already has been, in which case I need to pay more attention to some of the postings. BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 19 21:49:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA06025 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:49:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28908 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:57:01 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F1300401EALB6@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:59:10 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:59:09 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] revised adds/trippless In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19981014121118.006ab5d8@lcc.ctc.edu> To: Ahren Gehrman Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I apologize for overreacting to the whole tripless thing, especially to you Ahren, and wish us all luck in attaining it. There was a post from a someone which did not get a response. I was still wondering though, WHAT is/are the requirement/s for getting into the BAP. I know guiltless is part of it but is there a string requirement as well (i.e. so many tricks in a row), and is there a certain amount of 4's required. I always figured I'd just get rid of my 2's and get as good as possible until later losing 3's, but it'd be nice to have some idea as to what is required as I'm shooting for BAP by next worlds (if I can land a toe stall first. Right Eli.) BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Oct 19 21:49:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA06031 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:49:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28354 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:31:18 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F1300201D3DWP@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:33:13 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:33:13 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds??? In-reply-to: <19981016214537.7718.qmail@hotmail.com> To: matt dick Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Hi i was wondering exactly how the add system works. Is it like when you > do say a toe delay it counts as 1+ the 1add= 2 or is it just like 1add= > 1. is this how it works or am i totally confused. cou