From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 2 18:50:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA18961 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:50:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA30796 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:21:50 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F1T009013J4NY@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:04:16 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 11:04:16 -0700 (MST) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Laver modifications In-reply-to: <363ACD7D.4B85@utdallas.edu> To: Derric Scalf Cc: matt dick , freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sat, 31 Oct 1998, Derric Scalf wrote: > in the Lavers is pretty crappy. On footbag.org, they talk about > cutting the canvas (inside) layer away from the outer layer. I did this > only on one shoe. I ran out of time, so I didn't do the other one. I > haven't noticed any difference in the shoes except that the one that I > cut the canvas out of is starting to wear out now. I cut the canvas out of the insides and toes about 6 months ago and at the time I noticed a huge difference in sensitivity. I could feel the bag on my foot a lot better. Whether or not it made a big difference in my playing I can't exactly say, cause I still suck. BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 2 19:39:22 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA03348 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:39:22 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31779 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:12:45 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F1T00G016T811@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:15:08 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 12:15:07 -0700 (MST) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] ECHO...ECHO...Echo To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey where'd everybody go? Did I miss something? Last week I was checking my e-mail and having 70 or so messages every two days. Doesn't anybody want to argue over paradox anymore, or maybe give a few new moves or combos they've hit. I'll start, I recently hit my weak side blur, tapping butterfly, paradox AtomSmasher (only once) and I attempted a tapping eclipse but no go yet. I have yet to link these moves and play out of them as I get very excited to have hit them at all, then stop. I'd like to promote the move list as well. Thanks Steve for adding the Video Demonstrations. While I may have known what some of the moves were, it ultimately helps to see some of them done by the pros and get to watch it in slow motion. I can't wait to go and skool flurries until I drop or rather land. Congratulations to Carol and Eric whom I don't know, but I like weddings anyway. Oh yeah, I have been paying attention to a lot of the harder moves and noticing that the reverse of them are usually equally or even harder moves. For instance, Flurry > Pixie Paradon. So I was really wondering if anyone has been hitting some of the harder moves forward/reverse, back to back. Like Barroque > Scorpian Tail. Just trying to drum up some conversation. BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 3 08:40:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id IAA29894 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:40:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02029 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:55:44 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA01600 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:55:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx44-50.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.242) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma001533; Mon Nov 2 15:54:35 1998 Message-ID: <363E2CB8.3C40@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 16:05:44 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] ECHO...ECHO...Echo References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org KAPLAN BRADLEY M wrote: > > Oh yeah, I have been paying attention to a lot of the harder moves > and noticing that the reverse of them are usually equally or even harder > moves. For instance, Flurry > Pixie Paradon. So I was really wondering > if anyone has been hitting some of the harder moves forward/reverse, back > to back. Like Barroque > Scorpian Tail. > Well. I'm definitely not hitting back to back 5's or anything, but here are some forward/reverse combos that I do like. Blur > legbeater > blur double over down > double pickup (is that what it's called?) merkon > pixie osis double legover > pixie butterfly torque > spinning butterfly > torque Although these are fun, I haven't done any of them weak side (except for th dbl legover > pixie butterfly). That is the bad thing about these combos. They only work one side. I just realized that if you throw in an extra double over down in what I wrote up there, you could get one pretty mean one-sided string by linking all of the moves together. If only I could do it weak side... Later. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 3 08:39:57 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id IAA29886 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:39:57 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f241.hotmail.com [207.82.251.132]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA32594 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:18:42 -0800 Received: (qmail 23643 invoked by uid 0); 2 Nov 1998 20:18:07 -0000 Message-ID: <19981102201807.23641.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 12:18:07 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org, kaplanb@mscd.edu Subject: Re: [freestyle] ECHO...ECHO...Echo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 12:18:07 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > Hey where'd everybody go? Did I miss something? Everyone is prolly at the wedding. maybe give a Thanks Steve for adding >the Video Demonstrations. While I may have known what some of the moves >were, it ultimately helps to see some of them done by the pros and get to >watch it in slow motion. > Congratulations to Carol and Eric whom I don't know Me neither, but congratulations > Oh yeah, I have been paying attention to a lot of the harder moves >and noticing that the reverse of them are usually equally or even harder >moves. Lots of people can hit blurriest, but I've only heard of two people who have hit flurriest. Back to work. Ken Somolinos nyf D ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 3 08:40:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id IAA29914 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:40:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from m9.sprynet.com (m9.sprynet.com [165.121.2.209]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05603 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:48:45 -0800 Received: from newmicronpc (sfr-pci-pqr-vty126.as.wcom.net [209.154.140.126]) by m9.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05444; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:48:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811030148.RAA05444@m9.sprynet.com> Reply-To: From: " Jane Jones" To: "KAPLAN BRADLEY M" , Subject: Re: [freestyle] ECHO...ECHO...Echo Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:22:23 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org | Oh yeah, I have been paying attention to a lot of the harder moves | and noticing that the reverse of them are usually equally or even harder | moves. For instance, Flurry > Pixie Paradon. So I was really wondering | if anyone has been hitting some of the harder moves forward/reverse, back | to back. Like Barroque > Scorpian Tail. | | Just trying to drum up some conversation. | | BRAD hey hey hey... yeah, I was thinking about combos last night during one of our skool sessions... {finally pulled barfly for the first time...yahoooo!!!!! (small tangent...)} anyway, I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about as far as forward->reverse moves, but wouldn't barfly to barrage to paradon be cool. the barrage kind of rewinds the preceding move. probably aesthetically cool to look at. I bet it feels cool. I just gotta skool the barrage part before that combo shows up anywhere on my lavers... oh yeah, maybe people haven't been writing because Forest psyched us all out into thinking a bunch of stylers would be in Eugene 2 weekends ago. ;-) nah...just kidding...there was still some good freestyle even if the numbers were slightly smaller than expected. it was probably all of the halloween weekend jams going on. hey, at least people are finally out kicking rather than typing to this group all the time! :-) oh yeah, another one I was skooling that looks cool...stepping butterfly to whirl ...oh, nevermind, that's not really the same concept...it does look cool though...even if one dude I kick with thinks stepping butterflies look lame...I think they look pretty dope. any kind of a D'oh--switch direction type move looks pretty cool in my opinion. I guess peeking moves are kind of like that... adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 3 08:40:25 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id IAA29927 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:40:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA32364 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:59:31 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA10329 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:59:28 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] ECHO...ECHO...Echo Message-Id: <000000195962992881502@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:58:22 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, Nov 2, 1998, 1:15:07 PM US CST KAPLAN BRADLEY M wrote: >moves. For instance, Flurry > Pixie Paradon. So I was really wondering >if anyone has been hitting some of the harder moves forward/reverse, back >to back. Like Barroque > Scorpian Tail. OK, try hitting what I call "Mirrored Paradox": a front-end paradox mirage to a drifter (clip > same out dex > op out dex > same clip). Sorry if I got the dex notations backward; I developed a notation system similar to Job's notation a long time ago and I always referenced the position of the bag to the body, not the position of the leg to the bag, and so I never can keep the dexerity elements straight anymore. It is the same thing as front-side paradox blur, except you end in a drifter instead. Just like butterfly and drifter are mirrors of each other, this move's second half is a mirror of its first half. And, by the way, I think the move should qualify for 2 paradox cudos if if qualifies for any. ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle - the "Computer Guy" Missouri Lions Eye Research Foundation Heartland Lions Eye Banks dfogle@mlerf.org - www.mlerf.org From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 3 16:12:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA26925 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:12:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA12262 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:47:53 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA23644 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:47:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] ECHO...ECHO...Echo Message-Id: <000000198412992949196@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:46:35 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, Nov 3, 1998, 3:01:58 AM US CST Derric Scalf wrote: >So, it is a paradox blurry drifter? Wow. I've never seen anyone hit >this although it seems possible for those who can do voodoos like cake. I'm not sure about that; does 'paradox blurry' imply that the paradox dex is the first dex? If so, that's right. I've never 'hit' it, but I 'touched' it once or twice. Again about that dex direction thing: I would call in an "O-I" dex because the bag starts on the outside of the leg and ends up on the inside of the leg. I know Steve will be annoyed because it looks like I'm trying to introduce a 'competing' notation, but I think the reference point is important because even in moves like swirls and twirls and upside-down moves, there's still an 'inside' and an 'outside' of the leg for the bag's position to be referenced to. I keep thinking that, in Job's notation, the leg is moving from inside to outside, so it would be called an 'out' dex. Could someone correct my thinking for me? ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle - the "Computer Guy" Missouri Lions Eye Research Foundation Heartland Lions Eye Banks dfogle@mlerf.org - www.mlerf.org From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 3 16:12:51 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA26942 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:12:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA10408 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:50:54 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA15735; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 02:50:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx44-50.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.242) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma015725; Tue Nov 3 02:50:43 1998 Message-ID: <363EC686.127A@utdallas.edu> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 03:01:58 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Derrick Fogle, MLERF" CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] ECHO...ECHO...Echo References: <000000195962992881502@mlerf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: > > OK, try hitting what I call "Mirrored Paradox": a front-end paradox mirage to > a drifter (clip > same out dex > op out dex > same clip). Sorry if I got the > dex notations backward; Yeah, I think the dex direction is wrong according to Job's notation. That is why the long hand helps too. > It is the same thing as front-side paradox > blur, except you end in a drifter instead. So, it is a paradox blurry drifter? Wow. I've never seen anyone hit this although it seems possible for those who can do voodoos like cake. Have you hit this? If so, maybe I should start using those crazy shoes of yours :) > And, by the way, I think the move should qualify for 2 paradox cudos if if > qualifies for any. > If there ever was a move that deserved two paradox adds, this would be the one. And to Ken... You mentioned something about a flurriest? What is that? I keep picturing a nemisis, but that can't be right. Is it a barraging butterfly? I think I saw Ahren hit (or at least try) that a few times at worlds. Mean stuff. Later all. -D From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Nov 4 06:57:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA13545 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 06:57:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f158.hotmail.com [207.82.251.37]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA24104 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:06:57 -0800 Received: (qmail 1451 invoked by uid 0); 4 Nov 1998 05:06:26 -0000 Message-ID: <19981104050626.1450.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 03 Nov 1998 21:06:26 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: dfogle@mlerf.org, scalf@utdallas.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] flurriest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 21:06:26 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everyone! > >And to Ken... You mentioned something about a flurriest? What is >that? I keep picturing a nemisis, but that can't be right. Is it a >barraging butterfly? I think I saw Ahren hit (or at least try) that a >few times at worlds. Mean stuff. Flurriest is barraging butterfly. One dex shy of a nemesis. Adrian Dick told me that Tuan Vu and Stuart MacPherson have hit it. I keep thinking about how insane the sport is getting. At the begginning of the century, the concept of a 4 minute mile was ludicrous, but the times just kept getting better, and someone has run a 3:44 mile. Before Kenny Shults, i doubt anyone could have foreseen even a double around the world, much less the new weird moves that keep popping up like paratoxic, superfly, and blurry twirl. Ahren Gehrmann will hit blurriest swirl, people will go trippless, and when i am old and wheelchair bound, i will still be amazed by the innovative new moves of people who are pushing the sport to its boundaries. i Viva footbag! Ken "ceiling fan" Somolinos nyf D ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Nov 5 03:10:12 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA18094 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:10:12 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07451 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 16:29:33 -0800 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id OYQLa17681 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:28:03 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:28:03 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Footbag as a Metaphor Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org You know, the other day I was writing some poetry (a hobby of mine), (this was the same day I hit my first mirage so i was real hyped) and I realized that footbag is a metaphor for life. And I wrote a poem about it, so hear it goes: bouncing up nd down sometimes sweet and smooth other times a bit chaotic breezing through seems impossible loos so hard, but it's really not if you've got the right tools mind and body fused together flowing like a river soaring as a bird does wish you could be there high above doing everything perfect you can't though it'll always find a way to drop roll off your toe or outta your mouth sometimes you do the wrong thing but when it's right it's graceful beaty makes ya say "Wow!" I can't believe that just happend didn't know I had it in me the world's whirling swirling around me when will I come down? never, I hope Just thought I'd throw that out there. Owen "Total Package" Parrish From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Nov 5 04:09:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA02428 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 04:09:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mailhost.cyberramp.net (root@mailhost.cyberramp.net [207.158.64.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA10191 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:26:00 -0800 Received: from jrichter (dal-tsa14-23.cyberramp.net [207.158.83.215]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-981006-1336) with SMTP id VAA17956; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:25:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36411AFD.368F@cyberramp.net> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 21:26:53 -0600 From: Joe Richter Reply-To: jrichter@cyberramp.net Organization: Me X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Owen Parrish CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag as a Metaphor References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Owen, From the mouth of experience (which I suspect is a great deal more experienced than you), I have to say, "Great job!". If you feel that way after your first mirage, I shiver at the thought of the great lines you'll write (at least inside your head) as you tackle greater challenges. Keep up the good work. Good luck in all. Kicking that stupid, little bag will only get better and better... Regards, Joe Richter From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 7 21:03:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA22749 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:03:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from TAO.sou.edu (root@Tao.sou.edu [140.211.92.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24498 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:32:11 -0800 Received: from 206.151.159.16 (dyn-1-14.sou.mind.net [206.151.159.16]) by TAO.sou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA15168 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:33:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3641AB7E.7983@tao.sou.edu> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 05:43:26 -0800 From: "schrodt, forest" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] a few easy moves Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hiya stylers, I have a number of moves that I have come up with and know others have too. I have never seen anyone try them or hit them cleanly. I have either, hit but with no concistency, or not cleanly, or come very close, on all of them except blury blur and blury rip walk. paradox rip walk [5] (can anyone do blurry rip walk? [6]) pixie rip walk [5] Toe>same in>op in>same plant>op out>op xbody Do a smear but then plant the miraging second dex and go into a butterfly with the op leg doing the dex. I am still learning the notation so please correct me so I can get it right. I can concistently hit pixie dada curve but I have never hit pixie rip cleanly without "the"ing. paradox blur [5] (can anyone do blury blur? [6]) spinning blurr [4] gyro blur [4] gyro rip walk [5] spinning drifter [4] I would like to know who can hit these and if any of them have names. I have to admit that I did not have time to check the moves list to see if any are on it allready. Let me know what ya think. Forest "lovin it" Schrodt PS: Owen I like the poem. :) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 7 21:04:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA22910 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:04:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f189.hotmail.com [207.82.251.78]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA14714 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 02:57:18 -0800 Received: (qmail 9570 invoked by uid 0); 5 Nov 1998 10:56:48 -0000 Message-ID: <19981105105648.9569.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.142 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 05 Nov 1998 02:56:46 PST X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.142] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Spooky New Arrival! and adds (again) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 02:56:46 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org After geting back from traveling I just finally got caught up with my E-mail. so. >Scott and Valeria Davidson are proud to announce the arrival of >our spooky little boy: >Alexander Cole Davidson >7 lbs, 4.5 oz. >19 1/2 inches long >Born: October 31, 1998... at 4:31 a.m. >I'm gonna go get some sleep now. Mega congrats to Scott, Valeria, and Carrol and Eric (hope I spelled everyones name right). And totally unrelated, I apolagize to everyone sick of hearing about adds but I had an idea. I have been trying to make a replacement for the add system, but people are amazingly resistant to change, so I had an idea to simpely "fix" the existing system. First asume the add system is a decent judge of difficulty, say 1 to 15% error (mine being the high estamate). Now sit down a panel of experienced players to asign a fair number to the common moves not correctly rated. So blur and ripwalk would stil be 4 and atomsmasher would become 4 or 5 or whatever is considered fair. Then when ever someone hitts a new move, we can use the add system to aproximate itĄs difficulty based on related moves. For example if the panel decides that atomsmasher should be 4 then an atomic double leg over would be 5, ie one more dex. Then when new moves become more familiar the panel can concider them to decide if they were rated fairly. Each year at worlds the panel could then consider a list of new moves and decide if they are familiar enough to judge. This seems to work, not much changes, and almost perfect relaiability, no "patching" the system. Did I miss anything? I would also sugest that instead of using the add system to distinguish unique moves, JobĄs notation be used instead. Unless IĄm mistaken the add system doesnĄt distinguish between steping osis and blender, where in JobĄs the diffeerence is obvious. But thatĄs on another tangent. -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 7 21:03:59 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA22822 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:03:59 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send105.yahoomail.com (send105.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.128]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA26732 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:46:45 -0800 Message-ID: <19981106024832.20847.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.191.52] by send105.yahoomail.com; Thu, 05 Nov 1998 18:48:32 PST Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:48:32 -0800 (PST) From: EZ Piltz Subject: [freestyle] X-MAS... I can't hear you!!! To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What is up, you all? Who's hosting the X-Mas Jam this year?!!!! I might not be kicking by then, but I'd like to go anyways if possible; could at least do tons of taping. That's right, Mr. Intergalactic is laying off shred until his back is healed. He is now accepting charitable contributions to benefit the Intergalactic Rehabilitative Therapy Fund. 2216 Goss Cir. E. #2, Boulder, CO 80302. Come on, somebody, let's get the X-Mas Jam coordinated, and fast. Peace, Eli Zohar Boulder, CO _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 7 21:05:02 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA28265 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:05:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: SuperOwen@aol.com Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA16182 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:34:08 -0800 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id OOJHa02329 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:33:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2f61baeb.36447675@aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:33:57 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Worlds Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Does anyone know at least what month Worlds is in this year? and maybe possible locations? Owen "Total Package" Parrish From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 7 21:05:19 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA28271 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:05:19 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from exchange.docutech.com (docutech.com [207.239.14.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA00277 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:03:07 -0800 Received: by EXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:03:20 -0500 Message-ID: <2FE1EC1B4F2ED211B34C00104B2268D1020115@EXCHANGE> From: TJ Young To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:03:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org For anyone who knows Ethan Klien, he is getting back from Asia Nov. 13 or so. I would like to get a little welcome back shred planned for the end of Nov. We could do it in Philly, Princeton, or New York(whats up JP). If anyone has any suggestions for location (indoor) or is interested in participating, contact TJ at - "tjyoung@docutech.com". Where you at Sunil? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 7 21:05:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA28277 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:05:20 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from webster.lcc.ctc.edu (lcc.ctc.edu [134.39.132.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06412 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:31:33 -0800 Received: from lab2.ctc.edu (134.39.132.50) by webster.lcc.ctc.edu (WORLDMAIL 1.3.166) for freestyle@footbag.org; 6 Nov 1998 13:34:21 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981106133558.00695b7c@lcc.ctc.edu> X-Sender: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 13:35:58 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: [freestyle] ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Whut up!? Hey? Where did everybody go? When I joined the list there were twenty messages in my box everyday. Now there is one a day. Y'all can't be that busy. Hmmmmmm? Is there nothing to talk about anymore? How about this? It seems like every time I kick with Rippin', I play better. I wondered why and finally figured it out. It's because the whole time he's giving me ideas for combos. What's better than one creative mind thinking of combos? Two creative minds thinking of combos. I think that there are enough people who know each others styles to give each other ideas. I haven't seen everybody on the list play but most of you have. Why not start thinking of other peoples styles and giving them ideas. Just an idea. Torch From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Nov 7 21:05:27 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA28283 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:05:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from opus.vcn.bc.ca (marigold@opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07765 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:53:19 -0800 Received: from localhost by opus.vcn.bc.ca (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA15663 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:53:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:53:04 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Superfly Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, I was skoolin last night and during a middle of a string, I thought I'd try superfly (symposium barfly) which I have never attempted before. I got good height on it and made it all the way around twice. The only reason I didn't hit it was because the bag missed by clipper foot by an inch when it landed. It really isn't that hard. It's like paradox symposium whirl only you have to jump higher and do 2 dex's. I tried it a bunch of times after that but kept on losing my balance in the air(you really have to stay up there a long time it seems). My first attempt was definitely the closest. But I notice when you try a move spontaneously without thinking about it before hand, you have a lot better chance of hitting it. I guess it's because of the pressure of the thought of hitting a hard move. Anyone else have experiences like this? Adrian V. -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 8 09:08:53 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id JAA03889 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 09:08:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Allman144@aol.com Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id IWYIa03785 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 01:31:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4060996e.36453ad3@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 01:31:47 EST To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #509 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 72 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 11/7/98 11:14:56 PM, you wrote: <> Thats it???? :) Anthony Glick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 8 09:09:12 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id JAA03905 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 09:09:12 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Allman144@aol.com Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id IUPYa04133 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 01:31:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <68c15075.36453aaf@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 01:31:11 EST To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #509 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 72 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 11/7/98 11:14:56 PM, you wrote: <> Note: This next statement is not a joke. Anyone from the midwest want to come to Cleveland for a little mini X-mas jam? Don't worry, I won't be offended if get a barrage of "no!". It is worth a try though. Anthony Glick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 8 09:09:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id JAA03911 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 09:09:20 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pippin.imagiware.com (josh@pippin.imagiware.com [206.215.211.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA25885 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:17:54 -0800 Received: from localhost (josh@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA29719 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 23:17:43 -0600 Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 23:17:42 -0600 (CST) From: Josh Casey To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] put it in Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, Just a quick question/comment? It seems to me that its time to give the paradox to spinning moves that currently dont have them. For example a spinning mirage is clearly a paradox move, same with spinning drifter, the motion is exactly the same as in a regular paradox drifter except with a spin added in. The same would go for spinning torqe which should CLEARLY get a paradox add. The best part is that there is no vagueness as to which moves should recieve the paradox. Any thoughts on this? Has this allready been clarified? It seems clear cut to me and an obvious change needing to be made. I wonder what you all think. I seem to remember this coming up briefly and Eric Wulff saying "I've been saying that all along!" Later, Josh Casey From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 8 18:03:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA17676 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 18:03:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from newmicronpc (sfr-qbu-pqq-vty148.as.wcom.net [209.154.103.148]) by m9.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29713 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 09:25:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811081725.JAA29713@m9.sprynet.com> Reply-To: From: " Jane Jones" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #509 Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 08:58:18 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hmmm... : In a message dated 11/7/98 11:14:56 PM, you wrote: : : <> : my understanding of superfly is that it is a symoposium barfly. sooo...it's not actually like a paradox symposium whirl only with two dexterities, is it? don't you have to clipper set the bag as if your going into your barfly move, but then step down to symposium with that same setting foot before it does its double out-in dexterities? I guess it could be like a paradox symposium double over down. It all sounds difficult to me. Yahoo to all of you that can get your foot under it. Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 8 20:16:43 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA27006 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:16:43 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from direcpc.com ([206.71.114.112]) by postoffice2.direcpc.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-45425U50000L50000S0) with ESMTP id AAA21751; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:50:06 -0500 Message-ID: <35A5C731.AB7AFCDB@direcpc.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 02:48:02 -0500 From: Matt Avery Organization: 4th Dimension Interactive X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: iguana04@SPRYNET.com CC: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #509 References: <199811081725.JAA29713@m9.sprynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Pdx Symposium whirl with 2 dexterities? Lets get real here...anyone that can hit that baby is hein! Wouldnt that be a pdx symp whirr? Matt Jane Jones wrote: > Hmmm... > > : In a message dated 11/7/98 11:14:56 PM, you wrote: > : > : < : to jump higher and do 2 dex's.>> > : > > my understanding of superfly is that it is a symoposium barfly. > sooo...it's not actually like a paradox symposium whirl only with two > dexterities, is it? > > don't you have to clipper set the bag as if your going into your barfly > move, but then step down to symposium with that same setting foot before it > does its double out-in dexterities? > I guess it could be like a paradox symposium double over down. > > It all sounds difficult to me. Yahoo to all of you that can get your foot > under it. > > Adios, > Jane From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 8 20:17:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA27020 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:17:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from localhost by opus.vcn.bc.ca (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA04381; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:37:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:37:47 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: Jane Jones cc: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #509 In-Reply-To: <199811081725.JAA29713@m9.sprynet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 8 Nov 1998, Jane Jones wrote: > my understanding of superfly is that it is a symoposium barfly. > sooo...it's not actually like a paradox symposium whirl only with two > dexterities, is it? I just meant that the motion is basically the same only except you are going around the bag the other way with two dex's. Both moves feel really similar. That's all I'm saying. Adrian V. -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 8 21:31:38 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA11380 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:31:38 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f69.hotmail.com [207.82.251.209]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA01157 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:47:45 -0800 Received: (qmail 18178 invoked by uid 0); 8 Nov 1998 19:47:12 -0000 Message-ID: <19981108194712.18177.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:47:12 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org, josh@pippin.imagiware.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] put it in MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:47:12 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all. Josh Casey wrote" > >It seems to me that its time to give the paradox to spinning moves that >currently dont have them. For example a spinning mirage is clearly >a paradox move, same with spinning drifter, the motion is exactly the >same as in a regular paradox drifter except with a spin added in. >The same would go for spinning torqe which should CLEARLY get a >paradox add. The best part is that there is no vagueness as to which moves >should recieve the paradox. I'd only clarify this by saying spinning moves set from a clipper. You can set a spin move from an outstep, so that a move is not gyro, but then the pdx add isn't justified. Ceiling Fan nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 8 21:46:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA19897 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:46:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01993 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 13:25:19 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.193] (dhcptest1 [206.66.71.160]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09941; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 13:24:43 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 13:25:51 -0800 To: Josh Casey From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] put it in Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:17 PM -0600 11/7/98, Josh Casey wrote: > It seems clear cut to me and an obvious change needing to be made. > I wonder what you all think. I seem to remember this coming up briefly > and Eric Wulff saying "I've been saying that all along!" So have I. Marius is paradox, for example -- there is no doubt about it. I think most folks finally agree on this point. Eric's definition was right on -- "A spin simply moves the paradox dex to the other side of the body." Then, "KeN Somolinos" replied: > I'd only clarify this by saying spinning moves set from a clipper. You > can set a spin move from an outstep, so that a move is not gyro, but > then the pdx add isn't justified KeN, you're on crack. :-) The set doesn't matter. If you spin into a move, and then have to put the breaks on, then twist the other way to get your leg to go around the bag, you've done a paradox move. All other things being equal, of course. Again, "A spin simply moves the paradox dex to the other side of the body." It doesn't matter which foot you set the spin with, if, once you complete the spin, you do a move that would be otherwise paradox if you hadn't spun and set on the other side of the body, it's paradox. (Whew.) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 8 22:27:50 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA28445 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:27:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f270.hotmail.com [207.82.251.161]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA02818 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:06:28 -0800 Received: (qmail 609 invoked by uid 0); 8 Nov 1998 22:05:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19981108220557.608.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 08 Nov 1998 14:05:57 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: josh@pippin.imagiware.com, brat@footbag.org Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] put it in MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 14:05:57 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all >Then, "KeN Somolinos" replied: >> I'd only clarify this by saying spinning moves set from a clipper. You >> can set a spin move from an outstep, so that a move is not gyro, but >> then the pdx add isn't justified > >KeN, you're on crack. :-) The set doesn't matter. If you spin into a move, >and then have to put the breaks on, then twist the other way to get your >leg to go around the bag, you've done a paradox move. All other things >being equal, of course. Again, "A spin simply moves the paradox dex to the >other side of the body." It doesn't matter which foot you set the spin >with, if, once you complete the spin, you do a move that would be otherwise >paradox if you hadn't spun and set on the other side of the body, it's >paradox. (Whew.) I understand that. What i was saying, is that if you do a clipper set, spin away from the bag and dex with the leg you set with, it is gyro. If you set on the outstep of one of your legs, spin away from the bag and dex with the other leg, it is spinning but not pdx. Some spinning moves are pdx, but depending where you set from, something that would be gyro (if the set were disregarded) is simply spinning. Marius should get a pdx cause you pdx after a spin. A mobius set from a right toe instead of a left clipper should not. I'm not on crack, i'm just nitpicking. I understand, and have understood since before Josh Casey's posting, the concept of a paradox after a spin. I'm a ceiling fan, i understand the concepts of spinning. Ken CF Somolinos nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 8 22:30:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA28472 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:30:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02892 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:09:32 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.193] (dhcptest1 [206.66.71.160]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17302; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:09:27 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19981108220557.608.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:10:36 -0800 To: "KeN Somolinos" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] put it in Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:05 PM -0800 11/8/98, KeN Somolinos wrote: > If you set on the outstep of one of your legs, spin away from the bag > and dex with the other leg, it is spinning but not pdx. Right -- I disagree with you on this point. Hence, you must be on crack. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 8 22:35:27 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA04186 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:35:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: (qmail 1967 invoked by uid 0); 8 Nov 1998 22:10:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19981108221039.1966.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 08 Nov 1998 14:10:38 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org, iguana04@SPRYNET.com Subject: [freestyle] superfly clarifications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 14:10:38 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey hey Jane says: >my understanding of superfly is that it is a symoposium barfly. Correct >sooo...it's not actually like a paradox symposium whirl only with two >dexterities, is it? I think he was saying it feels like one, at least the set, plant, jump high part. If he meant it feels like a PS whirl with an extra dex, then it would be PS whirr. That's a frightening thought. >I guess it could be like a paradox symposium double over down. > pdx double over down doesn't exist. Bye. KeN nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 8 22:38:22 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA04211 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:38:22 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f227.hotmail.com [207.82.251.118]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA03071 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:16:49 -0800 Received: (qmail 15951 invoked by uid 0); 8 Nov 1998 22:16:18 -0000 Message-ID: <19981108221618.15950.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 08 Nov 1998 14:16:17 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: brat@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] put it in MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 14:16:17 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Steve > >At 2:05 PM -0800 11/8/98, KeN Somolinos wrote: >> If you set on the outstep of one of your legs, spin away from the bag >> and dex with the other leg, it is spinning but not pdx. > >Right -- I disagree with you on this point. Hence, you must be on crack. :-) Let me give an example. If i set a gyro mirage off a left foot clipper, i don't get a pdx add, right? now, if i set the same move off of a right outstep, then the move is coming from the same side of the body, but the dex leg is different than the set leg, so it isn't gyro, but there is a spin. Hence, it is spinning mirage, but gets no pdx. If i were to do a left foot clipper, spin, and then mirage with my right leg, then that would be a spinning pdx mirage and deserve a pdx add. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 8 22:52:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA04301 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:52:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03140 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:27:02 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.193] (dhcptest1 [206.66.71.160]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA19979; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:26:36 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19981108221618.15950.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:24:02 -0800 To: "KeN Somolinos" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] put it in Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:16 PM -0800 11/8/98, KeN Somolinos wrote: > Let me give an example. If i set a gyro mirage off a left foot clipper, > i don't get a pdx add, right? now, if i set the same move off of a > right outstep, then the move is coming from the same side of the body, > but the dex leg is different than the set leg, so it isn't gyro, but > there is a spin. Hence, it is spinning mirage, but gets no pdx. In neither of these cases are you talking about a paradox move, so why are you bringing this example up? The point is that the set doesn't matter, so whether you spin into a mirage from an outside or the opposite-foot clipper, you're doing the same move. Paradoxness doesn't have to do with which foot does the set, per se (though people describe it in those terms for lots of reasons). It has to do with which *side of your body* the dexterity happens on. (See Jeff Gran's dissertation on paradox last month.) > If i > were to do a left foot clipper, spin, and then mirage with my right leg, > then that would be a spinning pdx mirage and deserve a pdx add. Right! Then what are you saying? That if you set the same move from a RIGHT OUTSIDE set that it *wouldn't* be paradox? If so, again, and this is what I was referring to two messages ago, I disagree with you. Back to square one. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Nov 8 23:11:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA12851 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:11:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send1e.yahoomail.com (send1e.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA03308 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:48:22 -0800 Message-ID: <19981108224450.2104.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.194.25] by send1e; Sun, 08 Nov 1998 14:44:50 PST Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:44:50 -0800 (PST) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] put it in To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey! Don't forget "Atomic" and "Nuclear" sets. They also put the bag on the opposite side from the 2nd dex. Tricks like atom smasher, atomic whirl, atomic drifter, etc. would well-deservingly benefit from redefining "paradox". And anyone who says otherwise is on crack. ;-) Eli Zohar Boulder, CO _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 9 01:16:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA14305 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 01:16:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f57.hotmail.com [207.82.251.69]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA04491 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:41:59 -0800 Received: (qmail 3957 invoked by uid 0); 9 Nov 1998 00:41:28 -0000 Message-ID: <19981109004128.3956.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 08 Nov 1998 16:41:28 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: footbug@hotmail.com, brat@footbag.org Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] put it in MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 16:41:28 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey again. >> were to do a left foot clipper, spin, and then mirage with my right leg, >> then that would be a spinning pdx mirage and deserve a pdx add. > >Right! Then what are you saying? What I am saying is there is a difference between gyro, spinning, and spinning paradox. Since in the definition of gyro, there is the part about dexing with the set leg, you can set off a diff leg (which supposedly doesn't matter, but IS part of the definition of gyro)and spin without it being a gyro move. In these cases there is no pdx. In the cases where you set spin, then twist back, such as marius, it is spinning pdx. Let's look at some variations here. 1. Gyro mirage. clip>spin away>same in>opp toe This is gyro since the dex leg is also the set leg. No pdx justified. 2. Spinning mirage. set from right toe, or maybe right outstep>spin>left leg in to out dex>right toe This is the same move as the first. The fact that the set leg is different than the dex leg makes is spinning, but there is no pdx add. 3. Spinning pdx mirage. clip>spin away>opp in>opp toe Not gyro since the dex leg is diff than the set leg, and there is a def pdx justified. It's like a pdx mirage after a spin. You could also do the same move off a diff set like right outstep>spin away>left in dex>right toe Same move cause the set doesn't matter and there is no gyro stuff to worry about. So all I was saying is that gyro, spinning, and spinning pdx are all different, even if the diff between gyro and spinning is minor. I agree that the difference between gyro and spinning pdx is a big one. That's why I'm not on crack. KeN nyf'D ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 9 01:53:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA22809 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 01:53:31 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05151 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:27:03 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.160] (dhcptest1 [206.66.71.160]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA04925; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:26:46 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19981109004128.3956.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:26:07 -0800 To: "KeN Somolinos" From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] put it in Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 4:41 PM -0800 11/8/98, KeN Somolinos wrote: > What I am saying is there is a difference between gyro, spinning, and > spinning paradox. No duh. :-) > Since in the definition of gyro, there is the part about dexing with the > set leg, you can set off a diff leg (which supposedly doesn't matter, > but IS part of the definition of gyro)and spin without it being a gyro > move. That's just a question of terminology, not of difficulty. Terms like "gyro" are just used to simplify describing certain types of moves that are similar, so that they can be combined with other move names to easily describe the moves. These are similar to describing added difficulty, but they are *not the same*. So whether or not gyro moves can be set off anything but clippers is a completely orthogonal issue to difficulty assessment (such as whether or not a move merits the "paradox" add). > In these cases there is no pdx. In the cases where you set spin, > then twist back, such as marius, it is spinning pdx. Let's look at some > variations here. I don't think we disagree on most of those points; I think I'm just saying your message is potentially confusing to people who don't get the difference. So, instead of picking these nits with you, let me put forth what I think are the basic issues here, and if you still disagree, you can argue those points more directly: (1) "spinning " means "spin (away) into ". (2) "gyro " means "spinning , where the first dexterity in is done with the setting foot". (The implication is the setting foot is a clipper, but it's possible it could be a cross-body sole, a dragon, or even a toe for certain wierd moves like fairy-set and pixie-set spinning moves. But let's not go down that last rathole yet because in my mind it has no bearing on paradoxness.) (3) "paradox" means paradox. If a move has a paradox in it, and no other word describing the move (such as "blurry") already indicates the paradox concept (where the add is present, but the word "paradox" is not in the name), then you add the word "paradox" to the name, else it would be redundant otherwise. By definition, "gyro" moves (spinning moves where the first dexterity is done with the setting leg) cannot be paradox. So you'll never see a move termed "gyro paradox ". But (non-gyro) "spinning" moves could very well be paradox, so you might see "spinning paradox" when (a) a spinning move involves a dexterity, (b) the dexterity is done on the far side of the body (relative to the dex leg) after completion of the spin, and (c) the move is otherwise just a spinning version of a paradox move. > 1. Gyro mirage. clip>spin away>same in>opp toe > This is gyro since the dex leg is also the set leg. No pdx justified. No gyro moves can ever be paradox. > 2. Spinning mirage. set from right toe, or maybe right > outstep>spin>left leg in to out dex>right toe > This is the same move as the first. The fact that the set leg is > different than the dex leg makes is spinning, but there is no pdx add. Yes, this is definitely a spinning mirage. It's exactly the same move as gyro mirage, but it's one of those clear cases where it's not gyro because it doesn't fit the pattern of gyro moves. But this difference doesn't really bear on whether or not it could have a paradox in it. > 3. Spinning pdx mirage. clip>spin away>opp in>opp toe Not gyro since > the dex leg is diff than the set leg, and there is a def pdx justified. > It's like a pdx mirage after a spin. Right, again, we still don't differ on this. But for the second time, you've listed 3 out of 4 of the combinations -- leaving off what I think is the most important one, and the one that I thought you were referring to in your first posting: toe or outside-set spinning paradox. I claim they exist, even though most people think you need a clipper set for paradox. I assumed, since there was nothing else to make of your previous comments, that you were arguing this type of move *wouldn't* be paradox. But so far you still haven't address this point. That's the only interpretation I could come up with for your first posting on this thread: " You can set a spin move from an outstep, so that a move is not gyro, but then the pdx add isn't justified." I'm saying if you think spinning moves set from a toe or outside can't be paradox, you're on crack. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 9 02:53:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA07091 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 02:53:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f181.hotmail.com [207.82.251.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA05583 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:51:50 -0800 Received: (qmail 5406 invoked by uid 0); 9 Nov 1998 01:51:16 -0000 Message-ID: <19981109015116.5405.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 08 Nov 1998 17:51:16 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: footbug@hotmail.com, brat@footbag.org Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] put it in MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 17:51:16 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi >I'm saying if you think spinning moves >set from a toe or outside can't be paradox, you're on crack. :-) > > Steve > I know they can, but it depends on which toe or which outstep. I think our initial disagreement was that you assumed i was talking about the other outstep, which indeed justifies a pdx. Clipper was an example, nothing more. I understand pdx. KeN "ive never done drugs" somolinos ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 9 05:07:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA16990 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:07:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA09003 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:36:24 -0800 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id XAA04926; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:43:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:43:27 -0500 (EST) From: Deliciously Saucy Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] put it in In-Reply-To: <19981109015116.5405.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sun, 8 Nov 1998, KeN Somolinos wrote: > I understand pdx. > KeN "ive never done drugs" somolinos Hey, all! I have no desire to get into this debate, tho it *is* one of the silliest. Normally I couldn't resist but I have been real busy as of late. I just wanted to set the records straight. When I met Ceiling Fan, he was gettin the mojo working with Marion Barry. The kid smokes crack. Constantly. Come out of de nile, kid. It's too cold to go swimming, anyway. from Icy cold NYC, JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 9 05:52:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA25631 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:52:20 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f226.hotmail.com [207.82.251.117]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA09549 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:28:39 -0800 Received: (qmail 20070 invoked by uid 0); 9 Nov 1998 05:28:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19981109052808.20069.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 08 Nov 1998 21:28:08 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org, jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu Subject: Re: [freestyle] put it in MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 21:28:08 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all When I met Ceiling >Fan, he was gettin the mojo working with Marion Barry. The kid smokes >crack. Constantly. Oh shut up Josh. You're the one who got me to start going to Washington Square park every weekend, so I think it's easy enough to figure out who got me started. Ken "ceiling fan" Somolinos nyfd ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 9 06:26:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA01458 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 06:26:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09919 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:03:04 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA10215 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:02:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx43-24.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.152) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma010098; Mon Nov 9 00:01:56 1998 Message-ID: <3646883C.392A@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 00:14:20 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] paradox spinning Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ok... time for clarification... If the set is cross body (clipper, dragon) AND the first dex is with the set leg, this is gyro. No paradox. If the set is cross body AND the first dex is with the non-set leg, this is spinning. This gets a paradox. If the set is NOT cross body (outside, toe) AND the first dex is with the set leg, this is spinning? This also gets a paradox? If the set is NOT cross body AND the first dex is with the non setting leg, this is gyro? Not paradox? All of this assumes a quick back spin after the set and in to out dexes for the paradox. Is all of this right, or am I missing something? Let me know. Later. -Derric Dallas Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 9 06:54:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA10138 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 06:54:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10200 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:33:14 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.160] (dhcptest1 [206.66.71.160]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA04002; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:32:09 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3646883C.392A@utdallas.edu> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:33:14 -0800 To: scalf@utdallas.edu From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] paradox spinning Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:14 AM -0600 11/9/98, Derric Scalf wrote: > Ok... time for clarification... Or perhaps further confusion? :-) > If the set is cross body AND the first dex is with the non-set leg, this > is spinning. This gets a paradox. This is an oversimplification and therefore false. Paradox moves are only paradox if they are paradox. Spinning or not. You can't say a move "gets a paradox" just because the set is cross body and the first dex is the non-set leg. That's absurd. > If the set is NOT cross body (outside, toe) AND the first dex is with > the set leg, this is spinning? This also gets a paradox? Grrrr. Apparently my last message wasn't clear. > If the set is NOT cross body AND the first dex is with the non setting > leg, this is gyro? Not paradox? I can see where you might have gotten this from, but I don't think I ever said quite that. I said there are several sets that could be gyro (e.g., dragon or cross-body sole), but they're all cross-body. The term gyro does not describe the technical components of a trick but rather the "style" of trick -- spinning away from a cross-body set and then immediately doing a dex [in or out] with the setting foot at the end of the spin is a "gyro" move. If the set is not cross body, it's not gyro. But it's the SAME MOVE but it has a different name (spinning instead of gyro). Just like the reason infinity and butterfly are the same move. The name can describe more than just the technical components of the move. Does any of this make any sense yet? :-) So, to summarize (again): - gyro (or gyrating) is just a name for moves that are set cross-body, and that involve a spin (away), and where the first dexterity is performed (in or out) with the setting foot; it turns out, for obvious reasons if you know your freestyle concepts, gyro moves just happen to never be paradox moves (it's not like there's a rule that gyro moves are somehow exempted from paradox adds -- they simply can't be paradox because of how they're constructed); - spinning is an ambiguous term that could apply to any number of situations; in-spinning clearly means spinning into the set, and spinning usually means spinning away, but is really ambiguous (could mean gyro, spinning away, inspinning, etc.); so it's always important to qualify the word "spinning" to articulate the specific style of spin involved; you can't make blanket statements that spinning moves are or aren't always paradox -- it really depends on the move, not on the set or which type of spin it is (except gyro moves, which, as I think everyone agrees, simply aren't paradox); - paradox moves are almost impossible to define in a single sentence, so I won't try here; but when a paradox move is done out of a spin, it is a spinning paradox move; the normal tests for whether or not something is paradox are modified so that the side of the body that does the paradox dexterity in a spinning move is the opposite side from that of the non-spinning version of the equivalent move -- which foot does the set no longer matters, because the bag has long left your foot and you've spun around! What matters is where the bag ends up relative to your body before you begin the dexterity in question. If it's on the far side of the dexterity leg, it's a paradox move; these moves are called "spinning paradox", though many of them have their own names. That's it for now. Hopefully this is the same information I put in the previous message, but I retyped it from scratch to be sure in case my previous message was somehow less clear than this one. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 9 15:14:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA24292 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:14:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Chase Foster Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10472 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:58:56 -0800 Received: from Calvin4hob@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id OWCQa19214 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 01:58:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 01:58:19 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] dragon?drills? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Since I am new to freestyle footbag since this August. I can do up to only 3-add moves like butterfly and mirage ect. so I was wondering about what is an dragon, because I don't understand how you can do an outside del. xbdy. Also Eli told me a good tip on drills to try all moves with both weak and strong sides. And I was wondering if you could help with any other drills or tips. Thanks. Chase From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 9 15:30:59 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA24346 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:30:59 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f295.hotmail.com [207.82.251.186]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA13126 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:27:54 -0800 Received: (qmail 11098 invoked by uid 0); 9 Nov 1998 13:27:19 -0000 Message-ID: <19981109132719.11097.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.129 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Nov 1998 05:27:18 PST X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.129] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] paradox spinning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 05:27:18 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve wrote: >Paradox moves are only paradox if they are paradox. Spinning or not. >You can't say a move "gets a paradox" just because the set is cross >body and the first dex is the non-set leg. That's absurd. Well perhaps you need to clarify somemore, because this sounds like you are trying to contrive the add system to make up for accuracy gaps. The set is important to the definition. Paradox applies to moves set from a clipper followed (usually) by a same dex, plus a few straggler moves thrown in for fun, or perhaps bad definition. Trying to make this already all purpose add apply to other moves is abusing the system. In this case some spinning moves are related to their non spinning paradox counterparts, but they are difficult for a different reason. The difference between drifter and paradox drifter has to do with the "window" in which the dex is being performed. The difference between vortex and spinning drifter has more to do with changing momentum, which is something else. Still if you want to define what makes spinning drifter and like moves difficult, Scott suggested a "special" add, well I suggest we just rename the paradox add the "contrived" add and that it simply be added to moves that arenĄt fairly rated by the add system. Not only would fewer moves that deserve it be left out but we wouldnĄt have to pretend to define what the hell it is. e.g. as Steve put so well: >- paradox moves are almost impossible to define in a single sentence, Heh heh, well exactly ;) -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 9 15:31:02 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA24356 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:31:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: NikeekiN@aol.com Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA10652 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:26:48 -0800 Received: from NikeekiN@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id OTGAa03976 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 02:26:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <61a0db57.36469915@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 02:26:13 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Symposium Mirage Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Casablanca - Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was wondering if anyone had any tips on Symposium Mirage's. Thanks. Nick A. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 9 15:31:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA24374 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:31:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA12129 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 01:29:05 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA19242 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 03:29:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx43-24.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.152) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma019237; Mon Nov 9 03:28:45 1998 Message-ID: <3646B8B8.22AD@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 03:41:12 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] other things Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. One good thing to come from all of this spinning paradox talk is that it got me to start thinking... I was thinking about all of the different ways you can do a gyro set - which as Steve was kind enough to point out is a clipper set to a quick back spin followed by a quick dex of the set foot - end of story. Well, I starting thinking about a back to front swirl dex being about the same as a gyro set - the only difference is that it is done before the spin and with the lower leg instead of the upper leg. Has anyone played around with a hybrid of these two styles? It seems that if you could get the dex with the lower leg as you are spinning (by "swirling into the spin"), you would have more time to do stuff after the set. I'm going to try this tomorrow. Hopefully, the dex won't be 'the'. Is this how the big apple sauce is done? Thinking of gyro sets from different xbody positions, I started thinking about twirls from xbody toe. I'm too tired to try now, but having hit swirl from xbody toe, it seems possible. Scott D, Have you tried or hit or played into and out of triplessly yet? A twirl is a front to back swirl dex bail to op osis, right? What is it called if you swirl the other way? I have no grand visions of even trying this any time soon, but it seems that people who can hit ripstien should be able to pull off this move - reverse twirl? I love this sport. If anyone has tried any of the above things, let me know how they worked. Later. -Derric DFC From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 9 16:25:51 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA08742 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:25:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA14730 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:03:41 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA13482 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:03:28 -0600 (CST) Subject: [freestyle] Change to Job's Notation (PROPOSAL) Message-Id: <000000227452993472138@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 10:02:18 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 2.9.9 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org (Freestyle Listserve) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Being terminally confused about the dexterity directions and such in Job's notation, I want to propose a very minor change in the notation: Instead of dexes being referred to as "in" or "out", I would like the WHOLE DEX described instead: "in" = "I-O" or "IO" to describe the "In to Out" leg motion "out" = "O-I" or "OI" to describe the "Out to In" leg motion Note that the dash is optional - it helps visually, but is technically superfluous. This could also make it easier to describe swirl and twirl dexes where the notation isn't really "in" or "out" but "front" or "back". "F-B" or "FB" = "front to back" dex "B-F" or "BF" = "back to front" dex This would help me (at least) tremendously when looking at the notation to visualize the action that is occuring. ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle the fossil that developed a similar notation system before this list ever existed and can't seem to learn this new trick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 9 20:23:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA11797 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:23:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17756 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:43:07 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA23337; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:43:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx43-24.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.152) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma023150; Mon Nov 9 13:42:19 1998 Message-ID: <3647488D.3402@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 13:54:53 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NikeekiN@aol.com CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Symposium Mirage References: <61a0db57.36469915@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org NikeekiN@aol.com wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone had any tips on Symposium Mirage's. > Thanks. > >From a right toe set, set the bag a little above waist high directly in front of your left leg. (don't put your right foot on the ground) wait until the bag reaches its peak. As soon as the bag starts coming down, hop off of your left leg. You don't need to jump very high. Instead, try to just jump sideways OVER the bag. The dex is really small. Catch the bag on your right toe. The hardest part for me was that I was always trying to circle the bag in the air. You don't need to do that. If you jump over the bag, that is good enough. Set, wait a second, then jump. That pause helps you get your balance. Hope this helps. -Derric Dallas Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 9 20:24:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA11810 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:24:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17903 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:50:45 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA24764; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:50:11 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx43-24.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.152) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma024494; Mon Nov 9 13:48:38 1998 Message-ID: <36474A08.3732@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 14:01:12 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chase Foster CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] dragon?drills? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Chase Foster wrote: > > I was wondering about what is an > dragon, because I don't understand how you can do an outside del. xbdy. Dragon is a good way to hurt yourself. Do an outside delay and then wrap it around behind you until it is in a xbody position. There are a few people that can easily bend that way, but I'm not one of them. It takes a lot of ankle flexibility and it can tweak your knee if you aren't careful. Since you are hitting butterfly, try a butterfly dragon stall. Go just like you would for the butterfly, but catch the bag on a dragon instead of clipper. Right there, you have just discovered a flaw in the current add system. That is only 3 adds... just like a normal butterfly. Oh well. It is a move that'll make people wince when you hit it. Isn't that all that really matters? Perhaps Eli can give us some hellish dragon moves to try? -Derric DFC From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Nov 9 20:25:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA11829 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:25:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f55.hotmail.com [207.82.251.67]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA17641 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:38:27 -0800 Received: (qmail 922 invoked by uid 0); 9 Nov 1998 19:37:52 -0000 Message-ID: <19981109193752.921.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Nov 1998 11:37:52 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org, scalf@utdallas.edu Subject: Re: [freestyle] other things MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 11:37:52 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey kickers! >A twirl is a front to back swirl dex bail to op osis, right? I don't think direction matters >What is it >called if you swirl the other way? I think it's also just twirl. On raw shred when Kenny Shults hits blurry twirl he goes back to front. >I love this sport. Hey! Me too. Ceiling Fan nyfd ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 10 01:21:08 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA31954 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:21:08 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from pippin.imagiware.com (josh@pippin.imagiware.com [206.215.211.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19697 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:44:01 -0800 Received: from localhost (josh@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04724 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:43:51 -0600 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:43:49 -0600 (CST) From: Josh Casey To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] kennys move Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On raw shred Kenny hit Blurry whirling Swirl not blurry twirl. josh From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 10 01:23:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA31968 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:23:10 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from webster.lcc.ctc.edu (lcc.ctc.edu [134.39.132.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20543 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:27:17 -0800 Received: from lab2.ctc.edu (134.39.132.58) by webster.lcc.ctc.edu (WORLDMAIL 1.3.166) for freestyle@footbag.org; 9 Nov 1998 14:30:18 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981109143151.006963e0@lcc.ctc.edu> X-Sender: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 14:31:51 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: Re: [freestyle] ? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19981106133558.00695b7c@lcc.ctc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Whut up? Brad said... >> ideas for combos. What's better than one creative mind thinking of combos? > I posted this last week and was wondering if you or anyone else has >hit scorpian tail to barroque or vice versa? Yeah, I've hit both. I almost hit baroke to superfly the other day too. Just missed the superfly. On another note. As far as the parodox thing goes, all I have to say is that you should listen to Steve. I've had previous conversations with him about it and he knows what he's talking about. That's all Torch From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 10 01:23:40 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA31983 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:23:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send104.yahoomail.com (send104.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.122]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA21910 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:37:40 -0800 Message-ID: <19981109233742.9949.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.192.85] by send104.yahoomail.com; Mon, 09 Nov 1998 15:37:42 PST Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:37:42 -0800 (PST) From: EZ Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] dragon?drills?ideas? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Chase, D, and all. > > dragon, because I don't understand how you can do an outside del. xbdy. > Dragon is a good way to hurt yourself C'mon don't be a wimp! ;-D You just need to understand the mechanics of the "dragon". Derric is kinda' right, so Chase in CO, wait until I see you and I'll show you this wierd stall and how to do it. > Perhaps Eli can give us some hellish dragon moves to try? Gee... I'm somewhat flattered. Let me dig into the "weird dragon move" vault.... ok here are a few I've hit ending in dragon: whirling swirl, symposium whirl, symposium whirling swirl (on Sean's 98 UQAM, although I don't think it was worthy of video by itself), drifter, pdox drifter, ducking butterfly, spinning butterfly, ripwalk, torque, pdox torque, and I think that's it. Daryl Genz and Jon Schneider hit some wicked dragon moves, too. I have to go to work right now, so maybe I'll post the stuff they've hit later. Later, Zohar Boulder, CO _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 10 01:23:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA31995 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:23:42 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20419 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:18:09 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F2600701E2HPH@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:20:41 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 15:20:40 -0700 (MST) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Worlds In-reply-to: <2f61baeb.36447675@aol.com> To: SuperOwen@aol.com Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Sat, 7 Nov 1998 SuperOwen@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know at least what month Worlds is in this year? and maybe > possible locations? Worlds is in Chicago in '99 and according to a post by Scott Davidson the actual date and site are not yet set. One site would make it in June, the other site would make it in July. BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 10 01:23:43 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA31996 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:23:43 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20319 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:13:31 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3122) with SMTP id <0F2600701DUCBJ@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:15:48 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 15:15:47 -0700 (MST) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] ? In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19981106133558.00695b7c@lcc.ctc.edu> To: Ahren Gehrman Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > ideas for combos. What's better than one creative mind thinking of combos? I posted this last week and was wondering if you or anyone else has hit scorpian tail to barroque or vice versa? BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 10 03:51:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA09287 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:51:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f177.hotmail.com [207.82.251.63]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA24767 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:41:31 -0800 Received: (qmail 29657 invoked by uid 0); 10 Nov 1998 02:41:00 -0000 Message-ID: <19981110024100.29656.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:41:00 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: Calvin4hob@aol.com, scalf@utdallas.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] dragon?drills? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:41:00 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone. > Do an outside delay and then >wrap it around behind you until it is in a xbody position. Or you can just catch in x-body with your outside without any wrapping. > Perhaps Eli can give us >some hellish dragon moves to try? I've hit stepping butter dragon and legbeater ending in dragon. Has anyone blurried out of a dragon? I've done it once as a fluke. Ken "CF" somolinos nyfd ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 10 03:51:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA09293 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:51:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Ariel Santesteban Received: from tracker.excite.com (tracker-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.217]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23551 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:33:15 -0800 Received: from batty.excite.com ([199.172.152.107]) by tracker.excite.com (InterMail v04.00.02.01 201-227-103) with ESMTP id <19981110023230.JJZD292.tracker@batty.excite.com> for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:32:30 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] dragon?drills?ideas? Message-Id: <910661559.4658.715@mailexcite.com> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 17:32:39 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 127.0.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:37:42 -0800 (PST), EZ Piltz wrote: > symposium whirling swirl (on Sean's > 98 UQAM, although I don't think it was worthy of video by itself), I totally disagree. It is one of the most awesome tricks I have ever seen! Since not many people have ever seen this done, I am glad this trick has made it to video. If you want a challenge, go ahead and include this trick in some hella long guiltless string, but the difficulty in setting from dragon makes it that much more difficult. Can't wait for the videos... Ariel Santesteban _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private e-mail at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 10 03:51:07 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA09298 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:51:07 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23126 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:05:26 -0800 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id UAA20977; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:12:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:12:30 -0500 (EST) From: Deliciously Saucy Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Symposium Mirage In-Reply-To: <3647488D.3402@utdallas.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 9 Nov 1998, Derric Scalf wrote: > NikeekiN@aol.com wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone had any tips on Symposium Mirage's. I always thought the most subtle but important aspect of this move was 'throwing down'. Right after I've set the bag I relax my setting leg, and lower that foot close to the ground. As I'm doing this I hop just a little- the momentum helps the actual mirage jump, and it helps regain your balance. Even if you look like a spaz. JP Where Ken smokes da rock From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 10 03:51:01 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA09273 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:51:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f190.hotmail.com [207.82.251.79]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA24823 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:47:13 -0800 Received: (qmail 18408 invoked by uid 0); 10 Nov 1998 02:46:42 -0000 Message-ID: <19981110024642.18407.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:46:41 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] blurry twirl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:46:41 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi. A lot of people have refuted me and said that Kenny doesn't hit blurry twirl on raw shred. Everyone tells me he hits blurry whirling swirl. I know he hits blurry whirling swirl, he does it in a gym and goes into a spinning osis. But I am pretty sure he hits blurry twirl underneath the shade of a tree in someone's driveway and peter irish freaks out. I don't have the video with me here at Brown, so could someone please check? I recall watching it in slo mo. I'm pretty sure it's on there. Ken CF Somolinos nyfd ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 10 03:51:03 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA09281 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:51:03 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f83.hotmail.com [207.82.250.189]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA24737 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:37:57 -0800 Received: (qmail 15509 invoked by uid 0); 10 Nov 1998 02:37:26 -0000 Message-ID: <19981110023726.15508.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:37:26 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] other things MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:37:26 PST Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hiya! > >Kenny does a blurry twirl on Raw Shred? Hell yeah. > Have you seen the new '98 UQAM with Scott D doing spinning twirl >and peeking (gyro) twirl? Nope. I don't even have tv at college. I subsist on the videos on the website. > Where >about on Raw Shred is that blurry twirl? As i recall, Kenny is kicking in the shade of a tree in somebody's driveway. He starts off his run with it, and when he finally drops, Pete Irish picks up the bag, looks at the camera, points at Kenny and says something. On a similar note, I'd just like to say I strongly advocate footbag videos with the original sound. I learn many moves by listening to the sound people's feet make while they do it. There is a distinct rhythm to blurry whirl, and hearing it helps me know when to put my feet down and how quickly. Also, on 96 shred or some montreal tape, I would have missed many a trick had there been music. Lots of times people hit a fast move, and somebody in the background says something like "nice!" which cues me to rewind and watch in slo mo. I thought that Tuan Vu hit a blur in one video, but because somebody said something, I rewound and watched a really fast pogo paradox barrage. Everybody keep pushing yourself and the sport. Ken "ceiling fan" Somolinos nyfd ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 10 04:31:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA17968 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 04:31:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Calvin4hob@aol.com Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA25814 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:05:31 -0800 Received: from Calvin4hob@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id OSXPa02317 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:04:49 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:04:49 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] dragon Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, Thanks for all the help, I know how to do it,right now I can go from an outside stall and wrap it around into a xbdy position but every time I try and bring it up my foot goes verticle. Can anybody help me out with this.thanks Chase From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 10 04:31:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA17981 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 04:31:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25621 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:47:14 -0800 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id VAA07127; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:47:10 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:47:10 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: KeN Somolinos cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] other things In-Reply-To: <19981110023726.15508.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > Where > >about on Raw Shred is that blurry twirl? > As i recall, Kenny is kicking in the shade of a tree in somebody's > driveway. He starts off his run with it, and when he finally drops, > Pete Irish picks up the bag, looks at the camera, points at Kenny and > says something. I think that he actually hits a bliserting whirl, not a blurry twirl. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 10 04:56:56 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA26621 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 04:56:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (root@tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26004 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:27:44 -0800 Received: from omen (p169-tnt-ak-1.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.18.111.169]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA09317 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:27:30 +1300 Message-ID: <001e01be0c62$b7a7ac20$07050505@omen> From: "omen" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] dragon Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:29:32 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Thanks for all the help, I know how to do it,right now I can go from an > outside stall and wrap it around into a xbdy position but every time I > try and bring it up my foot goes verticle. Can anybody help me out with >this.thanks stand on the foot in question and repeatedly bash it with a sledgehammer until it no longer sticks up vertically either that or stretch first followed by lots of dragon practice practice practice, flexibility comes in time __________________________________________________ Damian Coventry reply to dc504894@ait.ac.nz or lordomen@ihug.co.nz From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Nov 10 05:02:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA26733 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:02:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA58 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:29:50 -0800 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:30:10 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE0C1F.BF73A820.ewulff@jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] Your on Crack if... Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:30:09 -0800 Organization: JSI Shipping X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4