From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Jan 3 22:06:36 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA26423 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 22:06:36 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f68.hotmail.com [207.82.251.208]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA00323 for ; Sat, 2 Jan 1999 16:01:57 -0800 Received: (qmail 13664 invoked by uid 0); 3 Jan 1999 00:01:27 -0000 Message-ID: <19990103000127.13663.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.102.123.46 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 02 Jan 1999 16:01:27 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.102.123.46] From: "Allan Haggett" To: jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] new lavers Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 16:01:27 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just got a new pair for christmas:-)) the only thing that I can see that's different is the peice of cloth stiched in across where the the mesh in the toe box meets the tongue as a kind of reinforcement. I've often had to stich the tongue back on after having torn it. Other than that, I don't think there's any difference. Mine may be from an old batch though. Still the best to play in! Allan Haggett Victoria, BC ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Jan 3 22:06:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA26420 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 22:06:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: NikeekiN@aol.com Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27577 for ; Fri, 1 Jan 1999 21:37:47 -0800 Received: from NikeekiN@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id RFJTa18628 for ; Sat, 2 Jan 1999 00:36:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <26e02681.368db078@aol.com> Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 00:36:56 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Different types of Mirages Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, whats up? I have a few questions. Okay, the first one, what is the key to hitting atomsmasher. I am having a lot of frustratiion hitting it. The next question, double mirage?...any hints on that one would be appreciated. I just learned paradox reverse mirage on my left side, i thought i'd tell you all. Thanks in advance. Nick A. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Jan 3 22:22:43 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA26947 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 22:22:43 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f250.hotmail.com [207.82.251.141]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA25083 for ; Fri, 1 Jan 1999 14:05:03 -0800 Received: (qmail 28313 invoked by uid 0); 1 Jan 1999 22:04:28 -0000 Message-ID: <19990101220428.28312.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 212.246.17.132 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Jan 1999 14:04:27 PST X-Originating-IP: [212.246.17.132] From: "Matti Ellonen" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Adidas Willcox (or something) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 14:04:27 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I think that Adidas Wilcox (Something like that) are very good Bag-shoes... I don't know but I have been playing with footbag with them about 7 months and i think they are very good!! BUT.....I would need new ones....So! Does anyone know WHERE / WHICH shop could I buy Adidas Lavers in FINLAND?? Can I get them from Tampere (city in finland)?? Greez, Matti the Man ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 4 17:54:12 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA02125 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:54:12 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA05087 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:09:50 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-156.nccn.net [209.79.221.156]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-98.04.07-) with SMTP id AAA25780 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:10:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <007701be37b9$1cf75040$9ddd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] Re: zoid sets Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 23:41:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, this is LON over in Nevada City,CA and my friend Cody Roberts has been able to hit zoid sets consistently over his head and has hit paradox torque as well as ducking and diving osis, and spinning osis. He stopped doing them for some reason though. Zoid is a cross body toe set while the nonset leg is hanging in mid air. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 4 17:55:15 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA02133 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:55:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA05092 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:09:51 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-156.nccn.net [209.79.221.156]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-98.04.07-) with SMTP id AAA25783 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:10:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <007801be37b9$1e03de40$9ddd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] Re: flux,merkon Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 23:48:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is Lon over in Nevada City, CA and I'm curious what symposium mobius, big apple, toe set flux and merkon are. Thanks. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 4 17:56:14 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA02140 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:56:14 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA05107 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:09:55 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-156.nccn.net [209.79.221.156]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-98.04.07-) with SMTP id AAA25789 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:10:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <007a01be37b9$1faf1d40$9ddd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] bad ass combo Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:05:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is Lon over in Nevada City and my footbag partner Reuben has hit, although only once so far atom smasher to omelit in a shred too. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 4 17:56:36 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA02147 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:56:36 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA05097 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:09:53 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-156.nccn.net [209.79.221.156]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-98.04.07-) with SMTP id AAA25786 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:10:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <007901be37b9$1ed4e9e0$9ddd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] Re: new rods? Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 23:52:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is Lon over in Nevada City, CA and I too heard there were new Rods, I hope they did change them so that they're better for playing in. I'm not too impressed with Rods for footbagging in. I even thought that I found a type of womens airwalks that had better stalling surface area but they were too small for me. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 4 22:21:38 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA21974 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 22:21:38 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Problems1@aol.com Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com ([198.81.17.67]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12920 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 12:21:43 -0800 Received: from Problems1@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 9JQZa07010; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:09:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3dadc95c.36912009@aol.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:09:45 EST To: magician@nccn.net, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: new rods? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Personally, I prefer tevas. they've got great "buckets" on both sides of the foot, and you can control the bag well with your toes. also, sole and flapper stalls are easier because there's nothing at all keeping your ankle from movin. They're nice and light. i own lavers, but my tevas will always do it for me. are tevas allowed in official competitions? Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 4 23:55:22 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA17961 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 23:55:22 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f108.hotmail.com [207.82.250.227]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA14683 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:26:38 -0800 Received: (qmail 6004 invoked by uid 0); 4 Jan 1999 23:26:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19990104232608.6003.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.252.202.137 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Jan 1999 15:26:07 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.252.202.137] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: new rods? Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 18:26:07 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Are you taking about a centain brand of Tevas, I'm don't own any types of sandals so I'd like to try them out.Not sure about your question, I think they are. > >Personally, I prefer tevas. they've got great "buckets" on both sides of the >foot, and you can control the bag well with your toes. also, sole and flapper >stalls are easier because there's nothing at all keeping your ankle from >movin. They're nice and light. i own lavers, but my tevas will always do it >for me. are tevas allowed in official competitions? > >Matt > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 5 02:00:26 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA23478 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 02:00:26 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Problems1@aol.com Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15207 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:04:24 -0800 Received: from Problems1@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id JAGPa25632; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:49:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:49:14 EST To: zogg13@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: new rods? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org the kind of tevas I prefer (like I told cybergremlin) are relatively simplistic, the basic design; 2 velcro straps, one unadjustable heel strap, flat bottom. I like them sized so that they end right at the end of my toes because any longer than that gets in the way, and they don't sit on your foot right. tevas definitely rock for hack, like I said, due to foot contact, the buckets, foot moveability, and the lack of extra materials. Buy some, or borrow from a friend, I'm shore you'll all love them. anyone else that uses tevas that has thoughts on them? Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 5 02:29:41 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA32526 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 02:29:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16501 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:57:25 -0800 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id TAA16741; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 19:57:22 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 19:57:22 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: flux,merkon Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > This is Lon over in Nevada City, CA and I'm curious what symposium mobius, > big apple, toe set flux and merkon are. Thanks. Symposium mobius and big apple are the same thing. A symposium mobius is like a mobius, but the dex is symposium. You set off of your cliiper, plant the set leg and lift off your other from the ground as you do a back spin. Then do a symposium in-out dexterity with the setting leg and catch it on the other foot osis. clip > back spin > (no plant while) same in > op osis Toe set flux is a torque with a rev dexterity. Set off of a toe, do an out-in mirage dexterity with the other leg and twist to catch on the other foot osis. toe > op out > op osis Merkon is a spinning switchover. Set off of a clipper, do a back spin, and then do a legover with the other foot. clip > back spin > op out > same toe Later From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 5 17:41:34 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA31051 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:41:34 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA17456 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 20:38:48 -0800 Message-ID: <19990105043959.5144.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.189.179] by send103.yahoomail.com; Mon, 04 Jan 1999 20:39:59 PST Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 20:39:59 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Tevas To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What's up, Shredders? The Monster is in the house, and he's not shredding in Lavers anymore. I switched to Tevas last week, and I can already feel my game improving, no joke. They are lighter, better shock absorbtion (no more shin splints!), better traction, nicer sweet spot for clippers. I never tried them before, because the toe strap gets in the way. But my friend Paul Mestas "Mr. Sandman" modified his, so I tried 'em, and sure enough after toe modification, I dig them way better than Lavers. They are more difficult and time consuming to modify than Lavers, but don't let that scare you. Someone asked me if Tevas allow your ankle to slip around within the sandal, and the answer is NO, not for me at least. They are good for heal stalls, too. The model I (and Dave Holton) think are the best are the "Terra Fi 98". If you folks are interested in modification instructions, let me know and I'll post them. Later, Eli "Monster" Piltz ps. For those of you who know me, my back is feeling great, and I'm back to skoolin! Yes!!! I love this sport! Shred on, Bros! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 6 16:09:50 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA28561 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:09:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Problems1@aol.com Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA23733 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:04:05 -0800 Received: from Problems1@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DHGJa18626; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:03:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:03:13 EST To: ezshredz@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Tevas Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dear "Tha Monster" (?) heh heh ;) yes, post modifications indeed. and tell me about how you do the heel stalls on tevas, because I find the bag kinda rolls off my leg. Hit a spinning flying osis the other day (weak compared to some of the stuff you guys write about, but I've been workin on it, and I was pleased.) Also, I was wondering, and this is to everyone, what kinda music do you like to listen to while shredding. for a while, I liked upbeat phish, the other night I tried it with korn and limp bizkit and such, I found the aggression got me spinnin around drunk monkey style and hittin some cool tricks... Thoughts? Responses? Keep on shreddin, Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 6 16:10:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA28576 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:10:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mcfs.whowhere.com (mcfs.whowhere.com [209.1.236.44]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA24441 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:06:48 -0800 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by theglobe.com; Tue Jan 5 12:54:45 1999 To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 20:54:45 -0000 From: "Ian Dubman" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [freestyle] Tevas X-Sender-Ip: 128.206.120.62 Organization: E-Mail @ The Globe (http://www.globe-mail.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --Eli, Yes, please post some modification instructions--I just want to print a copy for future reference. Where can you find this particular brand, or Teva brand sandals in general?? Mail order or a store?? Finally, could you give us an approximate cost of the 'Terra Fi 98'? Thanx dude, Ian Dubman MUFF "Free web-based email available now at http://www.theglobe.com" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 6 16:10:45 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA28589 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:10:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from webster.lcc.ctc.edu (lcc.ctc.edu [134.39.132.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA25815 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:44:34 -0800 Received: from LAB2.CTC.EDU (134.39.132.43) by webster.lcc.ctc.edu (Worldmail 1.3.167) for freestyle@footbag.org; 5 Jan 1999 14:44:50 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990105144930.00699144@lcc.ctc.edu> X-Sender: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 14:49:30 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: [freestyle] the return Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Shredders! I'm back! Torch From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 6 16:11:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA28609 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:11:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28005 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:55:32 -0800 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id UAA29349; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:55:29 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:55:29 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: symposium mobius In-Reply-To: <199901060236.UAA24291@coins0.coin.missouri.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Are you sure about that man? Anybody else out there got an opinion? As Yes, I am positive I am right. > to the moves list, a mobius is a gyro torque. The video demo for this mobius is a gyro torque. And symposium mobius (big apple) is a symposium gyro torque, or a gyro symposium miraging osis. You may be misunderstanding gyro. A gyro move does not have to be done without planting. And to do a Big Apple you must plant the set foot in order to do the dex symposium. > has Eric Wolf doing a clipper, back spin, with the same leg that he > sets with doing the dex, into an opp. osis. No Plant after the clipper. > Given the nature of this move (and maybe my understanding of symposium > is off) wouldn't a symposium mobius be impossible because you set with > one leg and catch with the other? unless you set with one and do the no, symposium mobius is not impossible. It doesn't matter that you switch feet. > dex with the other, but then it'd be a symposium 'paradox' mobius, I don't think you can have paradox mobius, that would imply gyro paradox torque, and that is impossible. You could have symposium spinning torque, but currently it is not paradox. > which is only one dex away from a big apple SAUCE( the only 7 adder on > the list that doesn't start with pogo) Personally, I've never heard of I don't think big apple sauce is possible. No one has ever hit this have they? It would be a true 7 add move though. I heard pogo sets are only worth one add now, so there aren't any 7 add moves are there? I hope that wasn't too long. I just wanted to convey my thoughts clearly. Ok, Later From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 6 16:11:04 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA28622 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:11:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f110.hotmail.com [207.82.250.229]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA27188 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:31:03 -0800 Received: (qmail 635 invoked by uid 0); 6 Jan 1999 01:30:32 -0000 Message-ID: <19990106013032.634.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 199.60.118.204 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Jan 1999 17:30:30 PST X-Originating-IP: [199.60.118.204] From: "Allan Haggett" To: jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] mobius, symposium mobius? Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 17:30:30 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jeremiah, >Symposium mobius and big apple are the same thing. A symposium mobius is >like a mobius, but the dex is symposium. You set off of your cliiper, >plant the set leg and lift off your other from the ground as you do a back >spin. Then do a symposium in-out dexterity with the setting leg and catch >.... Are you sure about that man? Anybody else out there got an opinion? As far as I know (which,granted,isn't as much as i would like) and according to the moves list, a mobius is a gyro torque. The video demo for this has Eric Wolf doing a clipper, back spin, with the same leg that he sets with doing the dex, into an opp. osis. No Plant after the clipper. Given the nature of this move (and maybe my understanding of symposium is off) wouldn't a symposium mobius be impossible because you set with one leg and catch with the other? unless you set with one and do the dex with the other, but then it'd be a symposium 'paradox' mobius, which is only one dex away from a big apple SAUCE( the only 7 adder on the list that doesn't start with pogo) Personally, I've never heard of just a "big apple" but then, hey, I still haven't heard about A LOT of moves and concepts that some o y'all are pullin' Any ways, after reading what I just wrote, I'm gonna conclude this before I confuse myself (and most of you out there I'm sure) even more than Jeremiah confused me. On a parting note: "syposium ducking butterfly twirl" was executed by yours truly two days ago. 99' is gonna be kinda cool. Happy New Years to you all! Allan Haggett Victoria, BC ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 6 16:15:29 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA28645 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:15:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA00107 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:30:36 -0800 Received: from oemcomputer - 208.254.197.193 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:30:08 -0800 Message-ID: <000501be3989$f5b90a00$c1c5fed0@oemcomputer> From: "william G. pepper" To: Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:33:49 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i heard a rumor about new lavers on the market. is there any truth to this? due to ankle injuries ( and winter) i haven't kicked for a while any suggestions on how to get my weak ankles up to speed? bill From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 6 18:39:39 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA11063 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:39:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.208.133.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02149 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:59:40 -0800 Received: from [207.208.34.68] (d91.nhe2.interaccess.com [207.208.34.91]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA00381; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:59:29 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990106013032.634.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:06:25 -0500 To: "Allan Haggett" , jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu From: "Enlightener (Scott Davidson)" Subject: Re: [freestyle] mobius, symposium mobius? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Allan and Freestylers! >"syposium ducking butterfly twirl" was executed by yours truly two >days ago. 99' is gonna be kinda cool. Happy New Years to you all! Jeez dude. That is truly radical. I can't see it though. Oh I wish for QT Video of this little gem. Are you sure you are clear on what a twirl is? It just seems that there isnt enough time for this. Have you perfected the anti-gravity device we have been working on? Do you live in "slo-mo" mode, like Duncan Idaho in the end of the sixth book of Dune (after being imprinted by Lucinda)? Please describe this in detail, longhand please, as notation is just gibberish to me, especially on things where notation is just plain confusing and where the nomenclature has not been developed for horizontal dexterities yet. Sounds like you set from your right clipper to a duck, then a symposium butterfly twirl following that on your left clipper side, but bail to right clipper. If that is what you hit, then kudos to you! Shred on brothas and sistas! See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 6 22:21:32 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA12373 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:21:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from LAB2.CTC.EDU (134.39.132.51) by webster.lcc.ctc.edu (Worldmail 1.3.167) for freestyle@footbag.org; 6 Jan 1999 13:24:26 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990106132909.0069e0f0@lcc.ctc.edu> X-Sender: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 13:29:09 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: symposium mobius In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wus up? >I don't think big apple sauce is possible. No one has ever hit this have >they? It would be a true 7 add move though. I heard pogo sets are only >worth one add now, so there aren't any 7 add moves are there? Of course big apple sauce is possible. I've seen Shults barely miss it by a half of a millimeter. If he skooled as much as he used to he would have it dialed by now. The only reason nobody else has hit it is because nobody else has skooled it. Someday, somebody will hit it. As for other seven add moves, I've come really close to blurry baroke. I'm sure I'll be able to hit it by Worlds. Also, pogo sets are still 2 adds if done correctly. If you pull it under you like a shoot, then it's 1, but if you actually set it, then jump over it like a symp. mirage, then it 2. Torch From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 6 22:23:28 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA12386 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:23:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send102.yahoomail.com (send102.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.90]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA04881 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:57:50 -0800 Message-ID: <19990106215851.12210.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.189.240] by send102.yahoomail.com; Wed, 06 Jan 1999 13:58:51 PST Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:58:51 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] mobius, symposium mobius? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yeah, Jeremiah is correct. Big Apple = symposium mobius. To clear your confusion, you plant the set/dex immediately after the set, then backspin and a phat torque. Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 6 23:32:26 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA32140 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:32:26 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Calvin4hob@aol.com Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05213 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:30:57 -0800 Received: from Calvin4hob@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id WIICa00811 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:25:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <65e4252c.3693e2f6@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:25:58 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Tevas Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows sub 2 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 99-01-06 11:03:22 EST, you write: >Also, I was wondering, >and this is to everyone, what kinda music do you like to listen to while >shredding. for a while, I liked upbeat phish, the other night I tried it >with >korn and limp bizkit and such, I found the aggression got me spinnin around >drunk monkey style and hittin some cool tricks... i like listening to some upbeat phish and some techno like daft punk and some beastie boys. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 7 02:05:28 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA22690 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:05:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07224; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:56:28 -0800 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 3VGTa04329; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 19:55:23 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 19:55:23 EST To: gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle] Re: symposium mobius Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org DO you see Siberian Swipe in the near or close future Ahren? Us SoCal. stylers wanna know... stay up shred head :) ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 7 04:25:13 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA28857 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 04:25:13 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from ra.nilenet.com (root@ra.nilenet.com [204.227.31.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09421 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 19:56:35 -0800 Received: from unknown (slip45.den.nilenet.net [206.247.98.47]) by ra.nilenet.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id UAA03936 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:54:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Daryl Genz" Subject: [freestyle] 99 Heart of Vegas Jam Update Date: Wed, 06 Jan 99 21:18:42 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id EAA28814 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org UPDATE: Important information regarding the 1999 Heart of Veges Jam (Feb 19, 20, 21 (Friday, Sat, Sun)). 1. HUGE SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Special Guest Apperance By: Adrian Dick & Stuart McFerson 2. Possible more BIG names to follow. (Will update as soon as I know) 3. If you are planning on attending Rippin's wedding, it will be happeing on Friday at 2:30pm. 4. Hotel Info: -Stratosphere (49$ Weekday, 99$ Fri, Sat) 1-800-998-6397 -Aztec Inn (??$ Weekday, 50-55$ Fri, Sat (prices subject to change, call today to get these rates)). Aztec Inn is across the street from the Strat. 1-702-385-4566 5. Special note regarding hotel prices... It is definitly in your best interest as far as $$$ goes to go through a travel agent and book BOTH hotel and plane tickets... I recommend (as always) Charles Shafer @ Oaks Travel 1-800-359-6694. I just got my tickets today from Denver, and for 1 Room, 3 people, we're paying $324 per person staying Thurs, Fri, Sat & Sunday nights (including Air). 6. This info is will also be posted at www.footbag.org.events 7. I don't know that it will be possible to all stay in the same set of rooms at the Strat. Apparently, it's pretty much a first come, first serve basis. You can request to get a room next to Genz or Reese though. Hope to see YOU there. Genzu From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 7 16:41:45 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA03618 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:41:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f145.hotmail.com [207.82.251.24]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA16175 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:12:40 -0800 Received: (qmail 11131 invoked by uid 0); 7 Jan 1999 16:12:05 -0000 Message-ID: <19990107161205.11130.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.142 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 08:12:05 PST X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.142] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Tevas Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 08:12:05 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Also, I was wondering, and this is to everyone, what kinda music do >you like to listen to while shredding. Somehow like clockwork this question gets asked every few months, oh well I guess I'm kind of curious too. For anyone who cares I used to only listen to Bach or Ministry when I played, but now I add in some of Pat Boons "In a Mettal Mood," Yah!! Listening him cover Dio's Holy Diver helps me crank out those diving butterflys. -Andrew P.S. I got this close (thumb and index finger held close) to a blurry supperfly. Has anyone hit this? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 7 20:22:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA04952 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:22:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA18521 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:45:55 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA22178 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:45:13 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx45-49.ix.netcom.com(198.211.44.113) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma021883; Thu Jan 7 13:42:32 1999 Message-ID: <369511EC.E43@utdallas.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 13:58:36 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: symposium mobius References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Bryan Fournier wrote: > > DO you see Siberian Swipe in the near or close future Ahren? Us SoCal. stylers > wanna know... stay up shred head :) > > ~Bryan I'm almost afraid to ask, but what is a Siberian Swipe? Also, to all of you freaks trying blurry superfly (symp blurriest, right?) and blurry baroke.... What are you thinking? I can hear spines snapping from here. I have seen pdx baroke only once on '97 Shred, and it still doesn't seem possible. Do you have to have a lot of extra time on pdx torque? When I hit pdx torque (VERY rarely), it is mostly luck. I just tweak my body 'til it hurts and hope the bag sticks to my foot. How oh how can you squeeze in an extra dex? And then to do it blurry?!? Congratulations to all of you guys that have worked so hard to even put forth an attempt on these wild and crazy 6's and 7's. I love this sport. -Derric DFC From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 8 02:44:02 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA30161 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 02:44:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Allman144@aol.com Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id WGRKa20554 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:19:53 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <98c4a970.36955d39@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:19:53 EST To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #556 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey guys, I need a little advice. This summer I am planning on doing an internship for my major (mechanical engineering). If I do this, I either want to stay at home and do it (Cleveland), or go somewhere where there is a big kicking population.....how convenient! What I need to know is what cities I should consider. L.A.? D.C.? Where? I would appreciate if anyone could write back and let me know. Thats it all you kickers. Tony Glick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 8 04:39:54 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA03001 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 04:39:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA206 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:44:54 -0800 Received: by jsisfo22.jsishipping.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BE3A6D.DF0BEEA0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com>; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:45:18 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE3A6D.DF0BEEA0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] paradox spin Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:45:16 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was reminded of something while I was shreddin today... Yes, it is completely and entirely possible to execute a paradox within a spin eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 8 04:43:12 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA03031 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 04:43:12 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: NikeekiN@aol.com Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24359 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:35:04 -0800 Received: from NikeekiN@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id JRLAa05322 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:32:50 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:32:50 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Atom smasher Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I was wondering if anyone had any tips on this move. I've been trying for a while on it but no luck. Oh yeah, I must say that my Lavers and facile juice have really improved my game. later Nick A. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 8 05:34:40 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA21953 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:34:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send106.yahoomail.com (send106.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.43]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA25145 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:52:45 -0800 Message-ID: <19990108045333.10346.rocketmail@send106.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.186.106] by send106.yahoomail.com; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 20:53:33 PST Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:53:33 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: symposium mobius To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Y'all, > > DO you see Siberian Swipe in the near or close future Ahren? Unless anyone knows (factually!) any different, I'm pretty sure Siberian Swipe is only a name, without being applied to a move... that is, it's just a joke thought of by Big Add Chad. Anyone hear differently? > Also, to all of you freaks trying blurry superfly (symp blurriest, > right?) and blurry baroke.... Umm, yeah, I'll believe it when I see it. "This close", huh? And no 7 add moves have been hit yet. -Monster _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 8 05:34:40 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA21952 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:34:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send104.yahoomail.com (send104.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.122]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA25264 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:00:40 -0800 Message-ID: <19990108050225.3424.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.186.106] by send104.yahoomail.com; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 21:02:25 PST Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:02:25 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Some crazy $#!+ To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What;s up all you freaks? Just wanted to tell you that Red Husted has some skillz! He hit Blurry Drifter to Mobius yesterday, and vortex to mobius, and Mobius to pdox Torque. Thanks for reading Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 8 16:18:27 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA24402 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:18:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from [207.208.34.77] (d77.nhe2.interaccess.com [207.208.34.77]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA27635; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:17:20 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BE3A6D.DF0BEEA0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:11:52 -0500 To: Eric Wulff , "'freestyle'" From: "Enlightener (Scott Davidson)" Subject: Re: [freestyle] paradox spin Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Eric! At 6:45 PM -0800 1/7/99, Eric Wulff wrote: >I was reminded of something while I was shreddin today... > >Yes, it is completely and entirely possible to execute a paradox within a spin To which moves are you specifically talking about, and in 100 words or less, please 'splain. :-) Thanks! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 8 23:47:03 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA03085 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:47:03 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA191 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:42:35 -0800 Received: by jsisfo22.jsishipping.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BE3B15.323A8300@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com>; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:43:03 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE3B15.323A8300@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] yup.. uh huh Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:43:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was just hangin out thinkin style and it dawned on me again... There is a paradox in a right cross body set to a spinning mirage with your support leg doing the dex(right leg). eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 8 23:47:02 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA03079 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:47:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03855 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:42:53 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-145.nccn.net [209.79.221.145]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-99.01.05-) with SMTP id OAA00717 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:43:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001e01be3b57$bce3ecc0$91dd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] re:music Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:06:10 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, LON speaking, I think spinning flying osis is one of the coolest looking moves in the game! I was really stoked when I hit osis to eclipse to spinning osis. I bet you would be good at that combo. Anyone would be. it really just flows and works. About the music. I like faster paced music for sure. Limpbizcit is very good to play to although I think corn has only about fifty percent good footbagging songs. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 8 23:47:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA03095 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:47:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03877 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:42:58 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-145.nccn.net [209.79.221.145]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-99.01.05-) with SMTP id OAA00726 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:43:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002101be3b57$bf9bb9c0$91dd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] re:blurry supperfly??? Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:36:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, LON speaking, and is a blurry supperfly a quadruple dex?! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 8 23:47:14 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA03118 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:47:14 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03860 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:42:55 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-145.nccn.net [209.79.221.145]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-99.01.05-) with SMTP id OAA00720 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:43:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001f01be3b57$bdbc9980$91dd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] re:TEVA'S FIX BACK!!! Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:16:14 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, LON speaking and I would also like to know more about the adjustments to the teva. How do you get it to not off the side of the teva? And how do you get it to not just hit the front toe strap and just roll off that and then off your toes? And how do you stop the bag from getting cought inbetween your teva and the arch of your foot when doing a really fast clipper stall or a flyer? I have many doubts about teva's because of all those reasons and sweaty feet making it slippery. I don't think rods are that great either because the soles are so thick that I always have the desire to take my new rods's soles to an axe sharpenner and grind them down. But instead I usually just take several months wearing down my old pair while doing nonhacking activities in my new ones. P.S. If anyone knows an axe sharpenner in Nevada County please let me know. LONshredonLON From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 8 23:47:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA03132 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:47:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03869 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:42:57 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-145.nccn.net [209.79.221.145]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-99.01.05-) with SMTP id OAA00723 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:43:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002001be3b57$be9ff4a0$91dd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] re:7 adder hit!!! Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:27:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, LON speaking, and I have to say first off. AWESOME !! Back in High School Reuben and I were hitting butterfly symposium twirl and Rue named it switcherue. Set from a left toe then butterfly it then symposium twirl, your left leg stalls the bag in an osis and should never have touched the ground. The Enlightener ducked before he did this move, making it seven adds. Is this correct? or did you do the butterfly symposium? and was it reverse twirl or normal twirl because it seems like you'd only have time to do a normal twirl. That's an awesome seven add! LONshredonLON From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 8 23:57:30 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA03378 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:57:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Problems1@aol.com Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04693 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:31:35 -0800 Received: from Problems1@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HJVPa03212; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:30:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:30:27 EST To: magician@nccn.net, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] re:music Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org dear lon, what exactly is an eclipse, in simplest terms, please From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 9 01:09:53 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA31598 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 01:09:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f255.hotmail.com [207.82.251.146]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA04796 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:45:44 -0800 Received: (qmail 25491 invoked by uid 0); 8 Jan 1999 23:45:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19990108234513.25490.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.197.212 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 08 Jan 1999 15:45:10 PST X-Originating-IP: [152.163.197.212] From: "Ethan Klein" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Some crazy $#!+ Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 15:45:10 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org my fellow Footbag enthusiasts, > Just wanted to tell you that Red Husted has some skillz! He hit >Blurry Drifter to Mobius yesterday, and vortex to mobius, and Mobius >to pdox Torque. Uuuugghh! Such sweet combos! Succulent! Mobius to Pdox torque wows with its twisted intricacy. It's great to hear when people are pushing the envelope. Philly-area shred has been "chilly" this winter. Sunil "Jumpin Jahosefats" Jani and J "Dr. Saucy" Penney have rolled in for a jam or two - hitting combos such as blurry whirl --> blur (Dr. Saucy), blur-> paradon-> blur(opp. side)-> paradon (Tsunami), paradon-barrage-terrage-paradon-barrage ('nami), paradon-barfly (Sauce pan hands) - Good times and "Rough, Rugged and RAW combos!" TJ Young is back "in da proverbial 'HOUSE'" - knocking me backwards yesterday with such nastiness as blurry ducking clipper and both side blur! Recently relocated R. Riefer (RRRR) has also been hooking it up with long, smooth, dialed strings of niceness. I've been skooling my ripwalks furiously lately- trying to yank them out of their Jaywalking lawlessness - hit an enjoyable ripwalk->blur and also ripwalk->ripwalk yesterday. Also working on settling down my extra-large legbeater - such fun to rip into - but currently ripping into my hip until I rid my execution of all its stilted inefficiencies . I'm planning to drive cross-country the last week of January - looking to hook up some shred! See ya - Ethan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 9 01:09:54 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA31604 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 01:09:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA226 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:12:43 -0800 Received: by jsisfo22.jsishipping.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BE3B21.CA046DC0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com>; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:13:12 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE3B21.CA046DC0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] Red's... Skills? Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:13:10 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id AAA21817 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eli said... >Just wanted to tell you that Red Husted has some skillz! I say, Red Shred ain't got skills. He's got luck. Consistent luck. Anyone that hits moves like that is just plain lucky. Especially if they are doin it consistently. All my love. Well, some of it anyway... eric I bet ya Red could hit a paradox mobius! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 9 02:40:32 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA27254 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 02:40:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06242; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:59:24 -0800 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ANCKa01221; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:56:29 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:56:29 EST To: ethan_klein@hotmail.com, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle] Some crazy $#!+ Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 1/8/99 4:47:38 PM, ethan_klein@hotmail.com wrote: <> Isn't that called a Ripped Warrior? or a Ripped soemthing.. anyway its a cool name... thats all for now.. shred on guys ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 9 02:40:59 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA27269 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 02:40:59 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06094; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:51:36 -0800 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TQQUa04796; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:47:47 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <6bf7b42a.3696b543@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:47:47 EST To: ezshredz@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle] Re: symposium mobius Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I didn't mean it to be a mean or cruel joke... or even a joke for that matter but its just a fictional move... sounds big.. sounds like a chess move for that matter... no harm intended.. shred on... not to be a guy that rambles about his pathetic guiltless combos but I hit smear->pixie-whirl->blurry whirl ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 9 02:41:01 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA27278 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 02:41:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06142; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:54:17 -0800 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id EUBPa03210; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:52:04 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <533f7c8c.3696b644@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:52:04 EST To: magician@nccn.net, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] re:7 adder hit!!! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 1/8/99 3:25:08 PM, magician@nccn.net wrote: <> Back in High School for me (which is now) I'm barely hitting down doubles and barflys here.. what high skool did you go to.. was it a special skool.. just for freestyle... was kenny part of the faculty.. just joking around..... keep up the shred... ~BRyan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 9 04:20:04 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA23628 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 04:20:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Problems1@aol.com Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA06621; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:34:24 -0800 Received: from Problems1@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id MPXSa25631; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:33:00 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:33:00 EST To: ShReDStEiN@aol.com, magician@nccn.net, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] re:7 adder hit!!! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org right, shred.... ;) heh, I'm the best in my school, and I'm a junior, and all i can hit is ducking flying osises, dragonfly stalls (repetetive, so it looks cool, though), and double head stalls. I've never actually seen other people do the double head stalls.... the hack goes from one temple on the side (I tilt my head), toss it back up, and stall it on the other temple without it touching my feet or anything, looks eff-ed up, but as for REAL tricks like you describe.... unheard of in my area, I envy you Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 9 07:32:55 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA15132 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:32:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f160.hotmail.com [207.82.251.39]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA08244 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:35:55 -0800 Received: (qmail 5866 invoked by uid 0); 9 Jan 1999 05:35:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19990109053524.5865.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 199.60.118.237 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 08 Jan 1999 21:35:23 PST X-Originating-IP: [199.60.118.237] From: "Allan Haggett" To: jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] more mobius! Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 21:35:23 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jeremiah, >You may be misunderstanding gyro. A gyro move does not have to be done without >planting. And to do a Big Apple you must plant the set foot in order to do >the dex symposium. I guess I was misunderstanding gyro then. Thanks, I thought that you couldn't plant after the set. >I don't think you can have paradox mobius, that would imply gyro paradox >torque, and that is impossible. You could have symposium spinning torque, >but currently it is not paradox. if you can do a plant after the set then its certainly not impossible. I've done it. right clip, back spin, left in/out, right osis. And even doing it without the plant is not impossible cause I've come REALLY close to that. I'm on board with Mr. Wolf when he says that doing a spin simply transfers the paradox to the other leg. Therefore my previous description would get the prdx. Thanks for the clarification on big apple and gyro though. All praise to the footbag. Allan Haggett Victoria, BC ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 11 00:55:04 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA13702 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:55:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (smtp.email.msn.com [207.68.143.160] (may be forged)) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA18254 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 01:19:00 -0800 Received: from oemcomputer - 208.254.197.210 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 01:19:02 -0800 Message-ID: <000101be3c7a$c8f79ce0$d2c5fed0@oemcomputer> From: "william G. pepper" To: Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 02:22:45 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey all, just getting back into it --found gym space for the winter any thoughts on drifter, pixe-mirage and how do you get ripwalk in shape, i can get it but not by stepping it i have to do a hop to get the initial dex. anyways trying to livin up the discussions bill From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 11 01:04:28 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA22655 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:04:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f213.hotmail.com [207.82.251.104]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA24076 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:24:55 -0800 Received: (qmail 19307 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jan 1999 00:24:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19990111002424.19306.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.205.161.56 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:24:23 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.205.161.56] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu, allan_haggett@hotmail.com Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] mobius, symposium mobius? Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:24:23 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all. Somebody explained big apple as a symposium mobius, to which Allan Hagget responded: >Are you sure about that man? Anybody else out there got an opinion? He's right. Then Allan said he hit >"syposium ducking butterfly twirl" was executed by yours truly two >days ago. What part of this move could be symposium? don't tell me the butterfly part. The only butterfly type move that deserves a symposium are the double dex variety, like Superfly. Now a quick question. I've been wondering if a duck doesn't nullify the paradox aspect of certain moves that start on one side of the body and end up on the other. OK, that's a statement. But take ducking "pdx" whirl. Does the pdx still exist in that move, or did the duck move the bag to the other side of the body effectively nullifying it? Food for thought. Happy 99 everybody. Ken "ceiling fan" Somolinos nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 11 07:18:51 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA06549 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:18:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f21.hotmail.com [207.82.251.201]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA24698 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:57:04 -0800 Received: (qmail 20792 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jan 1999 01:56:33 -0000 Message-ID: <19990111015633.20791.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.138.1.74 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:56:32 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.138.1.74] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org, gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: symposium mobius Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:56:32 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all! Ahren Gehrman said: I've come really close to blurry baroke. I'm sure I'll be able >to hit it by Worlds. Blurroque! Also, pogo sets are still 2 adds if done correctly. Yeah, all this business about pogo sets only being worth one add is bull. Again we must remember that the add system doesn't denote difficulty, so if you find that hitting blurry moves using a pogo set doesn't feel more difficult than a blurry set, doesn't mean you should just ignore that it was done symposium style. Adds don't equal difficulty. Ken CF Somolinos nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 11 07:19:51 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA06575 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:19:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f262.hotmail.com [207.82.251.153]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA27356 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:53:20 -0800 Received: (qmail 2316 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jan 1999 06:52:49 -0000 Message-ID: <19990111065249.2315.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 199.60.118.248 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:52:47 PST X-Originating-IP: [199.60.118.248] From: "Allan Haggett" To: footbug@hotmail.com Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] sypmposiumduckingbutterflytwirl Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:52:47 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ken, >Then Allan said he hit >>"syposium ducking butterfly twirl" was executed by yours truly two >>days ago. > >What part of this move could be symposium? don't tell me the butterfly >part. The only butterfly type move that deserves a symposium are the >double dex variety, like Superfly. Forgive me. I guess I have have no idea about the terminology that everybody seems to be refering to when discussing things here. I was under the impression that 'symposium' is used to describe a move that is performed with no plant by the setting leg after the bag has been set, a dex is performed with the other leg and then the bag is caught by the foot that set it. In fact from the moves list: "Symposium" is a concept for moves where the leg performing a dexterity (ie., circling the footbag) is planted immediately before and after the dexterity, while the other (setting) leg does not touch the ground. This form of a move requires more strength and balance since the dexterity is performed in the air. Can the setting foot plant before or after the dex is performed? On the symposium ducking butterfly twirl I'm setting with my left clipper, NOT planting while performing the duck, the butterfly or the swirl and landing in a left foot osis. If this is not symposium for whatever reason, whatever. It's harder than planting after the set. Personally, I don't really care if it's five, six or seven adds, it feels cool. On another note, this mobius, big apple thing has been eating at me. I'm not so vain as to further object to Jeremiah's description as obviously he is backed up experience that I don't have. What I do object to however is the wording of the description of mobius on the moves list. This is what caused the confusion for me in the first place. I'd paste this in too but... just read it. Look at the video demo for it. Eric is clearly not planting after the set. Am I completely alone on this? Can y'all see why I'm confused? Keeping in mind I've only ever been to the 97' worlds(when a double aroundtha was oh so very new to me), no other contact with the footbag world other than two other people that I play with every day (they're in the same boat). Point is Footbag.org and my recently joining this group are my only reference points for concepts, so go easy on me please. It's REALLY F#$@@!ING HARD to put footbag into words, no? > >Now a quick question. I've been wondering if a duck doesn't nullify the >paradox aspect of certain moves that start on one side of the body and >end up on the other. OK, that's a statement. But take ducking "pdx" >whirl. Does the pdx still exist in that move, or did the duck move the >bag to the other side of the body effectively nullifying it? Food for >thought. I would be of the opinion that the duck would have the same effect on paradox as a spin; switching the onus of prdx to the other leg. eg: ducking prdx whirl would be right clip, duck the bag, LEFT leg in/out right clip. But I guess that would be diving, not ducking, wouldn't it? Wow I'll quit now, this is long, sorry. Allan. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 11 07:19:43 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA06569 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:19:43 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: (qmail 28479 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jan 1999 02:08:06 -0000 Message-ID: <19990111020806.28478.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.138.1.74 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:08:06 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.138.1.74] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: ewulff@jsishipping.com, freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org, enlightener@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] paradox spin Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:08:06 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I write to this thing too much, but hey, i was away on vacation for a while. Anyway, Eric Wulff wrote: >it is completely and entirely possible to execute a paradox within a spin To which Scott Davidson replied: >To which moves are you specifically talking about, and in 100 words or >less, please 'splain. To which I reply, in 100 words or less: Marius. Ceiling Fan (ken somolinos) nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 11 07:19:32 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA06561 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:19:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f212.hotmail.com [207.82.251.103]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA24735 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:01:24 -0800 Received: (qmail 23329 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jan 1999 02:00:53 -0000 Message-ID: <19990111020053.23328.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.138.1.74 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:00:50 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.138.1.74] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org, damocles_schwert@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] Tevas Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:00:50 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi hi. Andrew wrote: >P.S. I got this close (thumb and index finger held close) to a blurry >supperfly. Has anyone hit this? > Um, once when I was having supper I smashed a fly, and he looked kinda smeared on the table cloth. Seriously though, sup(p)erfly cannot be blurry, only stepping. Ceiling Fan nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 11 23:26:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA15512 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:26:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA66 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:24:47 -0800 Received: by jsisfo22.jsishipping.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BE3D5D.6EB59780@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com>; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:25:11 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE3D5D.6EB59780@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] Paradox spin Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:25:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi you-all, Spinning paradox dragonfly. Yep, that's a paradox. Yep, that's 4 adds. i-man From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 11 23:26:12 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA15521 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:26:12 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Problems1@aol.com Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04457 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:21:17 -0800 Received: from Problems1@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 5JKVa20555; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:19:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:19:02 EST To: footbug@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org, gehrmanaj@lcc.ctc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] BAP Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey kickers, What is the current BAP roster, and how does one get inducted? Thanks mucho, Matthew From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 12 02:11:38 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA07396 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 02:11:38 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from f10.hotmail.com (f10.hotmail.com [207.82.250.21]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08338 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:33:58 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by f10.hotmail.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13291 for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:33:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cybergremlin@hotmail.com) Message-Id: <199901120133.RAA13291@f10.hotmail.com> Received: from 208.25.108.130 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:33:26 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.25.108.130] From: "James Holt" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox spin Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:33:26 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Spinning paradox dragonfly. how exactly is a paradox dragonfly proformed? it probably sounds like a dumb question but I dont have any1 to teach me so this is where I get my info. later James Holt ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 12 03:04:22 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA24813 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:04:22 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA09514 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:37:34 -0800 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id UAA22859; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:37:26 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:37:26 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: sypmposiumduckingbutterflytwirl In-Reply-To: <199901120222.UAA18396@coins0.coin.missouri.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Forgive me. I guess I have have no idea about the terminology that > everybody seems to be refering to when discussing things here. I was > under the impression that 'symposium' is used to describe a move > that is performed with no plant by the setting leg after the bag has > been set, a dex is performed with the other leg and then the bag is > caught by the foot that set it. In fact from the moves list: > > "Symposium" is a concept for moves where the leg performing a > dexterity (ie., circling the footbag) is planted immediately before > and after the dexterity, while the other (setting) leg does not touch > the ground. This form of a move requires more strength and balance > since the dexterity is performed in the air. > > Can the setting foot plant before or after the dex is performed? Yes. It doesn't matter which foot is setting in a symposium move. Symposium pixie (Tuan Vu does it on Raw Shred) is an example. It is toe set, plant the set foot and raise the other foot in the air to a symposium in-out dexterity with the set leg and then catch on the other foot. Symposium twirl is another example of this, you set, plant and then do a symposium dex. > On the symposium ducking butterfly twirl I'm setting with my left > clipper, NOT planting while performing the duck, the butterfly or the > swirl and landing in a left foot osis. If this is not symposium for > whatever reason, whatever. It's harder than planting after the set. > Personally, I don't really care if it's five, six or seven adds, it > feels cool. It sounds like the twirl dex is symposium then. That is an insane move. It would be paradox too. I'd imagine it would be hard to keep the twirl dex from being the. > On another note, this mobius, big apple thing has been eating at me. > I'm not so vain as to further object to Jeremiah's description > as obviously he is backed up experience that I don't have. What I do > object to however is the wording of the description of mobius on the > moves list. This is what caused the confusion for me in the first > place. I'd paste this in too but... just read it. Look at the video > demo for it. Eric is clearly not planting after the set. Am I > completely alone on this? Can y'all see why I'm confused? Keeping in In general, it doesn't matter if there are plants in a move. It doesn't change the trick or anything. You can do paradox mirage with a plant and it is still a paradox mirage. Same with gyro migare, you can plant the set foot and then do a dex with it and it is still gyro. So it is ok to plant in a mobius, the timing is probably easier for some people not to plant so they dont', but it doesn't change the move. I wouldn't say I have expierience to back my claims. I have just recently gone tiltless. I have looked at a lot of video though and read this list a lot and talked to people about the technical aspect of freestyle and I think I have a firm understanding of the concepts involved. Sorry about the length of this message and I hopes it clears up some of your confusion Allen. Later From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 12 03:28:26 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA27199 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:28:26 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09941 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:02:19 -0800 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id VAA29514; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:02:16 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:02:16 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] ducking butterfly symposium twirl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If this move gets the paradox it would be 8 add. clip > duck [bod] > op out [dex] > (no plant while) op swirl [dex][bod][bod] > op osis [bod][xbody][del] 8 add if the paradox add gets counted. That move is crazy. Later From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 12 03:31:15 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA27666 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:31:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA225 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:07:26 -0800 Received: by jsisfo22.jsishipping.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BE3D95.AFA992E0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com>; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:07:51 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE3D95.AFA992E0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] a bunch 'O' stuff Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:07:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id DAA27209 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi you-all, Matthew wrote... >What is the current BAP roster, and how does one get inducted? To your second question I say, no-one really knows. School your @#$%ing ass off and others that have schooled theirs off already will be the best judge they can. Ceiling fan wrote... >Seriously though, sup(p)erfly cannot be blurry, only stepping... Word Curtis! Allan wrote... Regarding Symposium... >Can the setting foot plant before or after the dex is performed? Answer is Yes. Also, please take it easy Mr. Haggart. Fottbag.ORG is a NONE PROFIT org with the majority of its maintenance being taken care of by 1 person who donates a tremendous amount of EXPENSIVE time for free to the promotion of footbag thru footbag.org. There are many exceptions to the rules of freestyle but for the most part the "descriptions" on the moves list, which are not necessarily definitions, work and they will be updated. Regarding Mobius, planting is not an issue when doing a Mobius. You can either plant or not. Back to your original thought, plants in symposium moves can happen once a person starts executing moves having several components to them. i.e. "Superfly"-stepping set-back-side symposium paradon. also said... >On another note, this mobius, big apple thing has been eating at me Big Apple is a Symposium Mobius. That is a period at the end of that sentence. Someone said... >I've been wondering if a duck doesn't nullify the paradox aspect of certain moves that start on one side of >the body and end up on the other. OK, that's a statement. But take ducking "pdx" Duck has No effect on the paradox concept as it is. Ceiling Fan wrote... >Adds don't equal difficulty. Not exactly of course. But they are relatively close. And Yes, that is what they are supposed to do within a move. A 4 add move is supposed to be harder then a 3 add move. A 3 is supposed to be more difficult than a 2. Add is short for addition. How many "additional things" are you doing between contacts of the bag. The more "additional things" you do between contacts, the harder the move. A way to measure difficulty within this creative thing we do. Is it perfect? I say no. Does it work? I think so. How accurate does anyone really think something like this can be? We are trying to quantify creativity. It can't be done exactly, nor should it be... exactly. eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 12 07:24:27 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA27056 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:24:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com (smtp1.mindspring.com [207.69.200.31]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA10562 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:40:00 -0800 Received: from smegma (user-38ldc8t.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.177.29]) by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA20567 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:39:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990111223953.007d4cf0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: ecrvich@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:39:53 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox spin In-Reply-To: <199901120133.RAA13291@f10.hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 05:33 PM 1/11/99 PST, James Holt wrote: >how exactly is a paradox dragonfly proformed? it probably sounds like a For this trick, you'll need one (1) pair of shoes (to be worn on the feet), one (1) footbag, and one-half of a fresh lemon. Clothing optional. Step one: set the footbag from a clipper. Step two: lick the lemon. Step three: perform a paradox mirage. Step four: perform an inside kick. Steps three and four are to be performed in one fluid motion while airborne. Heat and serve. Job's Lemonified notation: clip > tongue out-in [lemon dex] > same in-out [pdx][dex] > op inside kick -- Ernest "Scratch" Crvich Durham, NC, USA http://www.mindspring.com/~ecrvich Have footbag, will shred From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 12 17:03:34 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA03937 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:03:34 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f eceived: from hotmail.com (f59.hotmail.com [207.82.251.193]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA16627 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:31:41 -0800 Received: (qmail 4553 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jan 1999 16:31:10 -0000 Message-ID: <19990112163110.4552.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.142 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:31:09 PST X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.142] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] blurry and stepping Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:31:09 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, Dare I venture into the scary subject of termonaligy(sp) I have a proposed change. Have "blurry" simply denote "a clipper set opp io dex followed by another element from the opp leg or opp crossbody" So torque could be called blurry osis, and drifter blurry clipper. and "stepping" denote "a clipper set opp io dex followed by another element from the same leg or same crossbody." Just something that's been on my mind for a while. -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 12 19:49:11 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA27518 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:49:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17959 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:28:36 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA11869; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:28:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx47-43.ix.netcom.com(198.211.44.235) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma011827; Tue Jan 12 12:27:55 1999 Message-ID: <369B975A.EB2@utdallas.edu> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:41:30 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew McCargar CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] blurry and stepping References: <19990112163110.4552.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andrew McCargar wrote: > I have a > proposed change. > > Have "blurry" simply denote > "a clipper set opp io dex followed by another element from the opp leg > or opp crossbody" This would be good for defining moves, but bad for counting adds. Right now, blurry implies a paradox add - except for moves like blurriest and blurrier. The question everyone should be asking is whether we would rather define moves more accurately or define their add count. hmmm... another strike on the current add system... I wish someone would devote their life to fixing the add system 'cuz I don't care enough to. I agree with this proposed change for the sake of simplicity. Having a blurry concept and a stepping concept be totally unique would be helpful in defining moves - the part of a name that I feel is most important. If you disagree with me, answer this... Is a ripwalk stepping or blurry? Stepping butterfly means same side. Blurry butterfly doesn't exist only because the add system says butterflies don't get paradox. > So torque could be called blurry osis, and drifter blurry clipper. > > and "stepping" denote > "a clipper set opp io dex followed by another element from the same leg > or same crossbody." Scott, as head of the freestyle comittee, what do you think? Ideas from the rest of the list? Later. -Derric Dallas Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 12 19:49:29 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA27533 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:49:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA17540 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:48:07 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA06329 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:47:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx47-43.ix.netcom.com(198.211.44.235) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma006228; Tue Jan 12 11:46:41 1999 Message-ID: <369B8DAE.3F38@utdallas.edu> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:00:14 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] hard core Laver modifications Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Lon Smith wrote: > > I don't think rods are that great either because the soles are so thick > that I always have the desire to take my new rods's soles to an axe > sharpenner and grind them down. But instead I usually just take several > months wearing down my old pair while doing nonhacking activities in my new > ones. Seriously though, has anyone ever tried that? I keep wanting to put some sand paper to my soles or something. I've had the same lavers since I started kicking almost two years ago. Though they aren't quite like Daryl's, there is a quarter sized hole in the sole of one - if you are wondering what is under the rubber, it is like a big canvas sock. These shoes are the best, but I need to get used to the idea that they are about through. I tried kicking in my new Lavers, and hurt my toe by trying to curl it down for clippers against that fat still new shoe sole. I'm going to try sanding down the soles, but I would like to know if anyone has done this before. I hope someone will tell me before I waste an otherwise OK pair of shoes. At the very least, I'll let everyone know how it works... Later. -D DFC From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 12 20:15:27 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA03842 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:15:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Problems1@aol.com Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA18838 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:39:49 -0800 Received: from Problems1@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 1POGa18626; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:37:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:37:49 EST To: scalf@utdallas.edu, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] hard core Laver modifications Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Speaking of hardcore modifications, when is whoever said they were gonna post teva mods gonna do so? I can't wait to chop up my sandals in hopes that I can kick better with them Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 12 22:35:52 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA19256 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:35:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20104 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:35:06 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-162.nccn.net [209.79.221.162]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-99.01.05-) with SMTP id NAA23119 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:35:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004301be3e72$ecdf3ec0$a2dd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] re:duck/prdox Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:53:33 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I don't see why a duck would transfer the paradox. When I duck or dive(whatever) then I do it fast enough so that it doesn't change my balance at all and then while it's coming down it I do a paradox it feels very paradoxy. Especially ducking or diving paradox mirage. Try this move and you'll feel the paradox. shredonLON From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 12 22:35:52 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA19257 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:35:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20096 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:35:05 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-162.nccn.net [209.79.221.162]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-99.01.05-) with SMTP id NAA23102 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:35:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004001be3e72$e988c0c0$a2dd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] re:Red's Skills Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:51:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I almost thought Eric was being sarcastic when he said anyone who hits blurry drifter to mobius, vortex mobius, and mobius paradox torque is lucky, especially if they do it consistently! I definitely think that the consistency is what makes it obviously not luck. And you Eric also said "I bet ya Red could hit a paradox mobius!" Don't you mean couldn't? LON From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 12 22:36:01 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA19273 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:36:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20112 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:35:08 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-162.nccn.net [209.79.221.162]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-99.01.05-) with SMTP id NAA23127 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:35:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004401be3e72$edf36de0$a2dd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] Ducking??? Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:29:42 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I've heard a lot of different stories about ducking and diving and still don't know what is right. I can definitely separate ducks into two different catagories for myself. One type is definitely harder(the same difference between whirl and butterfly). One is clockwise and the other is counterclockwise. If you set from a right toe delay and land in a right clipper then doing one clockwise is way easy compared to counter clockwise, but the opposite is true for landing it on a left clipper. If you set from a left clipper and do a clockwise duck it is much harder to land it in a left clipper again but a counterclockwise is harder to move to the right clipper. Is a left clipper set counterclockwise duck landing in a right clipper a diving clipper? If it is not than I think that ducking/diving is all wrong. I almost think that a left clipper set clockwise ducking right clipper landing move should not get an add for the duck because it is so much easier than doing that same move counterclockwise. I hope that that clockwise counterclockwise difference is the difference between ducking and diving respectively. shredonLON From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 12 22:36:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA19296 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:36:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20090 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:35:02 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-162.nccn.net [209.79.221.162]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-99.01.05-) with SMTP id NAA23108 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:35:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004101be3e72$ea6a9540$a2dd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] re:twirls+7adders Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:37:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Scott and Freestylers, Didn't Kenny hit pogo paradox whirling swirl at the end of Raw Shred video 95? And hasn't anyone else hit something that is seven adds? Erin German(spelling please) says he'll hit bluroque by worlds and surely Rippin can hit blurry paradox simposium whirling swirl. Even my non BAP friend Rueben has hit pogo paradox dada which as well as Kenny's 7adder was seven add at the time. Can anyone come close to a blur but instead of landing it on the right toe do a double down and end it back in a left clipper delay? It seems like a possible quadruple dex. I want all you pro's working on that one! Reuben also hit blury doubble pick up which is a really cool tripple inside out dex all with that same leg. Scott, you said you have only heard of one type of swirl does this mean that you don't know what twirl looks like? The way you twirl which is cooler looking is outside in but you could also hit twirl inside out. Can you hit reverse swirling symposium whirl? Someone told me you could. I can just barely pull it off sometimes and I think it is as cool but harder than symposium whirling swirl(in fact Reuben hit symposium whirling swirl before normal whirling swirl!). What was the move you said you hit that I thought was seven adds? It was something ducking and twirling and symposium. Did you try switcherue(set from toe the setting leg butterfly's the bag while the other foot is pushing really hard so that it can do an inside out symposium twirl right after the butterfly) to totally clean the move and not make it look tha at all a 180degree spin is best. This is awesome and easy for it's adds. Its seven if you add a duck which I've never tried but think I could do in a couple days. LONshredonLON From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 13 02:07:29 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA26440 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 02:07:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f275.hotmail.com [207.82.251.166]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA22266 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:54:38 -0800 Received: (qmail 20221 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jan 1999 00:54:07 -0000 Message-ID: <19990113005407.20220.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.205.161.208 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:54:06 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.205.161.208] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org, damocles_schwert@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] blurry and stepping Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:54:06 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all. Andrew McCargar suggested that > > "blurry" simply denote >"a clipper set opp io dex followed by another element from the opp leg >or opp crossbody" > >So torque could be called blurry osis, and drifter blurry clipper. > and proposed a similiar definition for "stepping." I completely disagree with this proposal, since a torque doesn't have a set of any kind. You just mirage and then osis, unlike a stepping other side osis where you execute a set and then do an osis on the other clipper. I've come close to hitting haze, but that doesn't mean I can flurry; I can't even barrage. The terms "blurry" and "stepping" serve to clarify and distinguish moves that are obviously different, though their difference is not distinguishable by their Job notation. ken "Ceiling Fan" somolinos nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 13 02:07:13 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA26428 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 02:07:13 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f143.hotmail.com [207.82.251.22]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA22462 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:09:30 -0800 Received: (qmail 28515 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jan 1999 01:08:49 -0000 Message-ID: <19990113010849.28513.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.205.161.208 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:08:48 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.205.161.208] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: magician@nccn.net Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] re:twirls+7adders Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:08:48 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everyone. Lon asked: > Didn't Kenny hit pogo paradox whirling swirl at the end of Raw Shred >video 95? No, he hits blurry whirling swirl. > And hasn't anyone else hit something that is seven adds Yes, a bunch of people and a bunch of moves. Reuben also hit blury doubble pick up >which is a really cool tripple inside out dex all with that same leg. OK, a lot of people are having trouble with the "Blurry" terminology. A stepping set is a clipper set mirage set. If this set is followed by a paradox move, then it is called blurry. Derric asked earlier what ripwalk should be called. It is a stepping other side butterfly. I know what stepping butterfly conjures up mentally, but that is because it lacks a spiffy name, it doesn't mean the blurry and stepping terminology is crap. Parkwalk is a pixie butterfly, but same side. Despite it's name, everybody knows it is pixie, even if it is same side. Blurry double pick up cannot exist because there is no such thing as a paradox double pick up. Lon also asked: > Scott, you said you have only heard of one type of swirl does this mean >that you don't know what twirl looks like? Dude, Scott INVENTED twirl. I think the man knows what it looks like. ceiling fan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 13 03:44:52 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA25072 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:44:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: ShReDStEiN@aol.com Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA22894; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:46:19 -0800 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id AZVSa27784; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:44:01 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <93e6b7be.369bfa61@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:44:01 EST To: scalf@utdallas.edu, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] hard core Laver modifications Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I don't think this could be considered modifying your shoes.. your just speeding up the process of shredding your shoes which is very unnecessary.. wear them everywhere you go for a montha and I'm sure you won't have that problem especially if your doing some mountain climbing, playing tennis, skatboarding or long distance running in them.. good break in takes time... ask Daryl.. those babies are the sweetest or Reuben Cohn.. he's got some "biscuits too... remember though the shoes don't make the shredder but broken in Lavers sure feel good to kick in.. you can tell how hard and long someone's been kicking by their shoes a lot of the times ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 13 03:45:19 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA25098 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:45:19 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA208 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:18:29 -0800 Received: by jsisfo22.jsishipping.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BE3E58.025AC5A0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com>; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:18:53 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE3E58.025AC5A0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] for the record Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:18:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi you-all, For the record, my statement regarding Red's luck was COMPLETELY sarcastic. Red "Shred" has that name for good reason. Love ya Red And I was serious. I bet he COULD hit a paradox mobius. Which reminds me... there is a paradox concept in spinning moves. Also, Andrew said... >Have "blurry" simply denote >"a clipper set opp io dex followed by another element from the opp leg >or opp crossbody" >So torque could be called blurry osis, and drifter blurry clipper. Completely serious yet sarcasm drips all over this... I say.. Uh.. no... absolutely not.. wait a minute... o.k., I thought about it again... no... no way... way off eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 13 03:45:25 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA25113 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:45:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24340 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:00:31 -0800 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id VAA14846; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:00:22 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:00:22 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: blurry and stepping In-Reply-To: <199901130250.UAA12580@coins0.coin.missouri.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > "blurry" simply denote > >"a clipper set opp io dex followed by another element from the opp leg > >or opp crossbody" > > > >So torque could be called blurry osis, and drifter blurry clipper. > > > and proposed a similiar definition for "stepping." I completely > disagree with this proposal, since a torque doesn't have a set of any > kind. You just mirage and then osis, unlike a stepping other side osis > where you execute a set and then do an osis on the other clipper. I've I disagree with changing blurry also. If you want another name for torque call it a miraging osis and call drifter a miraging clipper. > distinguish moves that are obviously different, though their difference > is not distinguishable by their Job notation. Blurry and stepping moves are distingiushed differently in jobs notation. Blurry moves will have a paradox add in them. I think that about everything is distingiushed in jobs notation except for extra plants. An example is stepping osis and blender. They look the same in jobs notation. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 13 17:44:29 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA24277 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:44:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f116.hotmail.com [207.82.251.46]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA29176 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:59:12 -0800 Received: (qmail 8287 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jan 1999 12:58:30 -0000 Message-ID: <19990113125830.8286.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.139 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:58:30 PST X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.139] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: blurry and stepping Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:58:30 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, Jeremiah J. Riely wrote: >I disagree with changing blurry also. If you want another name for >torque call it a miraging osis and call drifter a miraging clipper. In my mind anything starting miraging denotes a toe set, just like blurry and steping are specific to clipper sets. When discribing a move I try to decribe the motion, which includes the set, and not distinction under the add system. >Blurry and stepping moves are distingiushed differently in jobs >notation. Blurry moves will have a paradox add in them. If paradox is not totally arbitrary then it is atleast confusing to many of us. If people often mistake stepping and blurry by their current definitions it is because they are trying to describe how a move looks and not it's add value. Just keep it simple, blurry goes to the other side, stepping stays on the same side. And while I'm at it try this, torque is just blurry blender minous a dex. Why does taking a dex off the end of a move change the set name? -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 13 17:44:44 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA24283 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:44:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f36.hotmail.com [209.185.131.99]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA27802 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:36:37 -0800 Received: (qmail 19896 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jan 1999 08:36:06 -0000 Message-ID: <19990113083606.19895.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.156.10.55 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:36:05 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.156.10.55] From: "jon nagela" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] WANTED: Shred Circle Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:36:05 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey kickers hows it going out there! The weather sure has taken a turn for the worse here in Chicago I sure hope it is much better when ALL of you come to visit this summer. Anyway, I am practicing hard by myself for the intermediate competitions this year, is there any people or circles that would welcome me to kick with them in the upcoming weeks. I actually live in Arlington Heights in the burbs but I will travel.- Especially if your name is Scott Davidson. Later, Jon Nagela ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 13 18:51:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA11444 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:51:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.208.133.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA32352 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:48:26 -0800 Received: from [207.208.34.107] (d107.nhe2.interaccess.com [207.208.34.107]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA06538; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:48:14 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990113083606.19895.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:53:31 -0500 To: "jon nagela" , freestyle@footbag.org From: "Enlightener (Scott Davidson)" Subject: Re: [freestyle] WANTED: Shred Circle Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Jon and Freestylers! > hey kickers hows it going out there! The weather sure has taken a turn >for the worse here in Chicago I sure hope it is much better when ALL of >you come to visit this summer. It's not so bad as Jon makes it. Just about 3 feet of show, more on the way and a little wind and cold temp's. Shred indoors, you won't even notice. >Anyway, I am practicing hard by myself >for the intermediate competitions this year, is there any people or >circles that would welcome me to kick with them in the upcoming weeks. I >actually live in Arlington Heights in the burbs but I will travel.- You don't have to travel too far. Saturdays, from 2:00 to 4:00 is our Intermediate Footbag Freestyle Classes at RecPlex in Mt. Prospect. Just $20 for a seven week session. (Two sessions, started last week). Call 847.640.1000 to register, or for directions to the building. >Especially if your name is Scott Davidson. I'm the instructor. It is a 1 hour class and 1 hour shred session. Be there, be early, shred hard! See ya there! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 13 18:51:13 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA11450 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:51:13 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send1e.yahoomail.com (send1e.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA32623 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:10:40 -0800 Message-ID: <19990113180549.29315.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.191.75] by send1e; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:05:49 PST Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:05:49 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Tevas To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, Sorry for the delay. Modifying Tevas is not easy, and it's even more difficult to explain by words. My friend just got a scanner, so I'll scan some images of the mods and create a simple webpage for it. So just relax! Don't harass me; it will be finished when it's finished, and I'll let you all know when it's finished, so wait until it's finished, and keep kicking in Lavers until it's finished; I am finished. Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 13 18:51:08 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA11439 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:51:08 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA32732 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:24:21 -0800 Message-ID: <19990113182615.26307.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.191.75] by send103.yahoomail.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:26:15 PST Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:26:15 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] blurry/miraging To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I-man wrote: Uh.. no... absolutely not.. wait a minute... o.k., I thought about it again... no... no way... way off I'm with Eric on this one. NO WAY. Ripwalk is a miraging butterfly, torque is a miraging osis. If you always think of "miraging" as from the toe, then maybe you should undergo some hypnotherapy to rearange your subconscious to fix this problem. Ok, to all you 7 add busters, GO TO WORLD'S! World's is where you go to show your stuff. If you got stuff then bring your stuff to world's, and share your stuff with others who have brought their stuff to share with others who brought their stuff, too. Remember, if you can't put a trick in your comboz, then it's useless. And if you don't really have comboz, then you should take a break from the 1 in 100 tricks to skool your comboz. Comboz is where it's at... comboz comboz COMBOZ. Later Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 13 18:54:08 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA11489 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:54:08 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from postal.interaccess.com (postal.interaccess.com [207.208.133.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00108 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:28:36 -0800 Received: from [207.208.34.107] (d107.nhe2.interaccess.com [207.208.34.107]) by postal.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA01968; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:28:03 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004101be3e72$ea6a9540$a2dd4fd1@left> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:22:24 -0500 To: "Lon Smith" , "footbag" From: "Enlightener (Scott Davidson)" Subject: Re: [freestyle] re:twirls+7adders Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Lon and Freestylers! At 12:37 PM -0800 1/12/99, Lon Smith wrote: >Scott and Freestylers, > Scott, you said you have only heard of one type of swirl I think I said I only know of one kind of twirl... of Swirls there are two. Actually, there is no reason why you couldn't do a "reverse" twirl, I just haven't hit it yet. >The way you twirl which is >cooler looking is outside in but you could also hit twirl inside out. No reason why not. >Can >you hit reverse swirling symposium whirl? Someone told me you could. Yes. It is a same side move. I tha it alot, but when it is solid it is fun. >Did >you try switcherue(set from toe the setting leg butterfly's the bag while >the other foot is pushing really hard so that it can do an inside out >symposium twirl right after the butterfly) to totally clean the move and >not make it look tha at all a 180degree spin is best. I tried it, but unsuccessful at this juncture. > This is awesome and >easy for it's adds. Its seven if you add a duck which I've never tried but >think I could do in a couple days. Ouch. Remember, the focus is not only on "which is the hardest move", but on how you incorporate them into your strings. So a "Blurry Symposium Ducking Twirl" (or whatever) is nothing if you can't do it in a string, and on both sides for that matter. Skool strings. Repeat. Repeat again. Etc... See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 13 19:20:58 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA21147 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:20:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: aadegl@mindspring.com Received: from dewdrop2.mindspring.com (dewdrop2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00832 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:51:17 -0800 Received: from aaron (user-38ld6s6.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.155.134]) by dewdrop2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA24623 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:51:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990113104705.006de978@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:47:05 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <19990113182615.26307.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Uh-oh, I'm back... >Remember, if you can't put a trick in your comboz, then it's useless. Eli generally knows his shite, but I want to caution newbies not to take this too literally. Long combos are truly badass, but a single cool trick in isolation can also be badass, worth doing even if you can't link in or out. I have some long combos, some individual tricks, all of which I'll throw into a shred circle without compunction. >And if you don't really have comboz, then you should take a break from >the 1 in 100 tricks to skool your comboz. Word. aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 13 22:41:11 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA21471 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:41:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.208.133.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01114 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:13:09 -0800 Received: from [207.208.34.107] (d107.nhe2.interaccess.com [207.208.34.107]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA04167 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:12:59 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:23:04 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Enlightener (Scott Davidson)" Subject: [freestyle] New Moves? Clipwalk Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! Here is a move I don't remember seeing... Set from a clipper, do a ripwalk-style first dex, then instead of ending in op>clip, you end in op>fly clip. Still four adds, just harder to control the set. Also: Stepping Paradox Flying Dragonfly. (4 adds) (Eric undoubtedly does this one) Also: Stepping Flying Clipper (3 adds) Eric, have you tried any of these, if so, have they got names already? See ya! Scott. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 14 02:14:32 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA23387 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:14:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: (from root@localhost) by law-f77.hotmail.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03301; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:35:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from frankgut@hotmail.com) Message-Id: <199901140035.QAA03301@law-f77.hotmail.com> Received: from 139.67.16.52 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:35:45 PST X-Originating-IP: [139.67.16.52] From: "Frank Gutowski" To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org, ewulff@jsishipping.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] a bunch 'O' stuff Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:35:45 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org All I gotta say is well said eric, you are so eloquent. frank From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 14 04:40:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA05895 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:40:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05740; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:41:19 -0800 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7OIUa07010; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:34:15 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:34:15 EST To: a455beater@hotmail.com, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] WANTED: Shred Circle Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 1/13/99 9:23:59 AM, a455beater@hotmail.com wrote: <> Ha. Hahahah that's classic... now thats an up and coming kicker right there. keep shreddin man. ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 14 04:40:36 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA05899 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:40:36 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dewdrop2.mindspring.com (dewdrop2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05940 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:00:40 -0800 Received: from smegma (user-38ldbug.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.175.208]) by dewdrop2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA15901 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:00:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990113220022.007e51a0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: ecrvich@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:00:22 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: blurry and stepping In-Reply-To: References: <199901130250.UAA12580@coins0.coin.missouri.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 09:00 PM 1/12/99 -0600, Jeremiah J. Riely wrote: >everything is distingiushed in jobs notation except for extra plants. An >example is stepping osis and blender. They look the >same in jobs notation. Since plants are usually implied (e.g., Stepping Butterfly, which would get you little honor if you didn't plant), I don't think we'd necessarily need extra notation for that. And since "(no plant while)" is accepted terminology, there's no reason why "(plant)" couldn't be, if desired. What probably could use changing (and would distinguish the two moves you mention), is the way whirl/swirl dexes are notated. Currently, whirl is not distinguished from normal "in" dexes, and swirl is added as a modifier (which is an addition to Ben's original proposal), as in "in swirl". These are also slightly confusing in the in/out context (especially swirl...IMHO, Whirling Swirl is incorrectly notated with an "out swirl" dex on the online move list, and Swirl itself is left arbitrary as "in/out swirl"). One possibility would be to use the "whirl" modifier. Another would be to also change "in" and "out" to "back" and "front" for these two types of dexes. For example ("back" implies "back-to-front", "front" implies "front-to-back", just as their "in" and "out" counterparts): Swirl: clip > same back swirl > same clip Twirl: clip > same front swirl > (back) spin > op clip Whirl: clip > op front whirl > op clip Dyno: clip > op back whirl > (back) spin > same clip So: Stepping Osis: clip > op in > (back) spin > same clip Blender: clip > op front whirl > (back) spin > same clip I personally tend to use "in-out"/"out-in", or just "i-o"/"o-i" (and therefore "back-front"/"front-back", or just "b-f", "f-b") for the dexterity direction when posting here normally, mainly for Derrick's benefit. But as that would cause a heap of [unnecessary] changes to the move list, I'm not advocating that as an official change. After all, this is an informal forum; slight inconsistencies are fine as long as they're clear and understandable. And yes, I am aware of the infinite recursion involved with the notation for Swirl and Whirl themselves. Life sucks. -- Ernest "Scratch" Crvich Durham, NC, USA http://www.mindspring.com/~ecrvich Have footbag, will shred From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 14 04:41:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA05910 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:41:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05725; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:41:01 -0800 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 1IDTa01221; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:39:54 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:39:54 EST To: enlightener@footbag.org, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Moves? Clipwalk Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 1/13/99 2:18:27 PM, enlightener@footbag.org wrote: <> EI think eric hits that in '97 shred ... ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 15 01:07:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA03147 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:07:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f226.hotmail.com [207.82.251.117]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA07003 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:58:38 -0800 Received: (qmail 21470 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jan 1999 04:58:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19990114045808.21469.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 199.60.118.164 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:57:52 PST X-Originating-IP: [199.60.118.164] From: "Allan Haggett" To: ewulff@jsishipping.com Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] thanks Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:57:52 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eric, Yeah, you're right man. I DO need to take it easy. There are a lot of things that I still need to learn before I take an argumentative position on this discussion group. My apologies to Steve, and everyone for my agressive posturing of late. Also someone said(I think it was Ken Somolios or Eli piltz) that comboz were where it waz at. Uh-ha, I'll buy that. I really find it rather annoying to be in the middle of a session with a group of people and have one person constantly stopping the flow by trying one particular move that they can 'sorta' do but not consistantly and not within a string of other moves. This degrades the spirit of playing with other people. Working on tough stuff is all good, but doing it on your own time is only fair. Jubal's movie concept: A group of footbaggers are all transported to another dimension when one of them hits a particular string of moves that is a key to a dimensional gateway. They then have to hit the corresponding combo to get back. Kind of a 'Sliders' concept except replace the palm controller with footbag moves. Corny, but funny. Anyone got a couple of million to produce? Finally, Sole-Air Productions is finally going on-line! Hopefully sometime over the next two months we'll have a web site with QT clips of some of our moves and comboz for your viewing pleasure. Peace and all praise to that sack o' beads. Allan. PS, Eric I think I spelt your last name wrong in one of my postings awhile ago, sorry. My last name is HaggETT not HaggART.:-) Thanks. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 15 01:11:55 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA03176 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:11:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA223 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:25:29 -0800 Received: by jsisfo22.jsishipping.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BE3F43.AF846240@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com>; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:25:55 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE3F43.AF846240@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:25:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id GAA11865 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi You-all Ceiling Fan wrote... >OK, a lot of people are having trouble with the "Blurry" terminology. A stepping set is a clipper set mirage set. If this set is followed by a paradox move, then it is called blurry. Blur is a move. Period. Blurry is not a set-TECHNICALLY. Whoever came up with this, I'm sorry but it is out-dated. I think most would agree on what a blurry set is if someone were to describe a move like - "I did a blurry-whatever". In a case such as this a paradox is not necessarilly impied. A paradox is only implied in the move itself - "Blur". A "Haze" is a stepping double leg over. A "Fog" is a stepping paradox doule leg over. A blur can be described as a stepping paradox mirage. Scott said... >Here is a move I don't remember seeing... >Set from a clipper, do a ripwalk-style first dex, then instead of ending in >op>clip, you end in op>fly clip. >Still four adds, just harder to control the set. Nope, 3 adds but do a butterfyer and it is 4. It's a ripping buttefly. Rip-walk style first dex is a "step". Break it down as a stepping op side butterflyer. >Also: >Stepping Paradox Flying Dragonfly. (4 adds) (Eric undoubtedly does this one) Blurry dragonfly. I call it that because it is a blur with a paradox dragonfly, not a paradox mirage. Not because of the set. >Also: >Stepping Flying Clipper (3 adds) Yep... >Eric, have you tried any of these, if so, have they got names already? All of em... What I call them is above. How about blurry dragonfly to tork? Or ripping butterflyer to Mobius? These are "Funky Fresh Fun" combos I've hit before. The latter, not much, but the blurry drag to tork and double down are staples 'O' mine nowadays. On UQAM I hit a stepping dragonfly to tork right there with ya Scott. I'm heartbroken you don't remember... sniff... sniff What it izzzzz! eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 15 02:48:22 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA32037 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:48:22 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: aadegl@mindspring.com Received: from smtp3.mindspring.com (smtp3.mindspring.com [207.69.200.33]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA19216 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:37:14 -0800 Received: from aaron (user-38ld6pp.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.155.57]) by smtp3.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA15670 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:37:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990114173303.006b37fc@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:33:03 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wulff wrote: >Blur is a move. Period. Blurry is not a set-TECHNICALLY. Whoever came up with this, I'm sorry but it is out-dated. I think most would agree on what a blurry set is if someone were to describe a move like - "I did a blurry-whatever". In a case such as this a paradox is not necessarilly impied. So it's "correct", then, to call a blurriest a blurry barfly? And who else (besides myself) suspects that a stepping (blurry?) set should *never* imply paradox, since the bag, after said set, is directly in front of the body? (leaving add counts/difficulty ratings aside for the moment). Thanx aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 15 08:25:06 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id IAA06320 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:25:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA215 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:11:50 -0800 Received: by jsisfo22.jsishipping.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BE4002.8EFFE5C0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com>; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:12:14 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE4002.8EFFE5C0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] spin... paradox... guess who? Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:12:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yep.. It's me How you-all doin? spin... paradox... Yup, it works. i-man From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 16 06:04:13 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA30808 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 06:04:13 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f52.hotmail.com [207.82.250.63]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA02532 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:34:00 -0800 Received: (qmail 17817 invoked by uid 0); 16 Jan 1999 03:33:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19990116033329.17816.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.138.0.235 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:33:28 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.138.0.235] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] hackey sack...it's not just for hippies anymore Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:33:28 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. I was channel surfing when I happened upon N'Sync hackey sacking on MTV. Let's just say that they suck at one more thing other than singing and dancing. Let's just hope the exposure helps rather than hurts the growth of footbag. Ceiling Fan nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 16 06:03:55 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA28972 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 06:03:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA276 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:45:17 -0800 Received: by jsisfo22.jsishipping.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BE40BF.A4BE03C0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com>; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:45:45 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE40BF.A4BE03C0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] steppingblurryingspinningpradoxingamending Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:45:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id EAA27437 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I said... >After a step you adjust so that the bag is directly in-front of you. More clearly, "during" a step-set you adjust so that the bag is in front of you. Similar adjustment as in a paradox without a step except a dex is incorporated in the pivit motion. Yeh... Das it.. yeh.. What it shoulda been... i-man From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 16 06:05:16 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA32516 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 06:05:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA281 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:18:20 -0800 Received: by jsisfo22.jsishipping.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BE40BB.E0B25C40@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com>; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:18:48 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE40BB.E0B25C40@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] steppingblurringspinningparadoxing.... uh.. yeh! Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:18:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id DAA17970 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Y'all, Thanx James... Aaron said... >So it's "correct", then, to call a blurriest a blurry barfly? I wouldn't say it is. But I could probably figure what move you are talking about if you described it that way. Also said.. >And who else (besides myself) suspects that a stepping (blurry?) set should *never* imply paradox, since the bag, after said set, is directly in front of the body? (leaving add counts/difficulty ratings aside for the moment). A stepping set *never* does imply paradox. However, if you're saying that the paradox concept following a step set should be erased by the step set I say... Why? Might as well erase paradox all-together in that case. After any "said set", if you're going to do a paradox, you adjust so that bag is directly in front of you. While we're at it, I'm reminded that this is also the case in a spinning paradox... What's that you say? Yes... a spinning paradox. It is the adjusting so that the bag is in front of you that is the paradox. After a step you adjust so that the bag is directly in-front of you. And why leave add counts/difficulty aside if it supports the theory. I imagine a majority would agree that a "fog" feels more difficult than a "haze", a "blur" more than a "stepping mirage", a blurry dragonfly than a stepping dragonfly, etc. Hence, the paradox within seems to fit... eh? What is shall be.... eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Jan 17 05:10:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA12252 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:10:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Aaron de Glanville Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA15771 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:45:33 -0800 Received: from aaron (user-38ld6ku.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.154.158]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA27921 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:45:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990116204054.006d20f0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:40:54 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] steppingblurringspinningparadoxing.... uh.. yeh! In-Reply-To: <01BE40BB.E0B25C40@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wulff said: > However, if you're saying that the paradox concept following a step set should be erased by the step set I say... Why? Might as well erase paradox all-together in that case. After any "said set", if you're going to do a paradox, you adjust so that bag is directly in front of you. That's what I'm saying. The reason why: some "paradox" sets actually *do* put the bag on the "outside" of the body (pdx mirage, pdx drifter, pdx torque, etc.). The so-called "blurry" set does not. The "adjustment" is less. Of course, such an amendment would necessarily involve other amendments to the add system (the "multi-dex bonus", etc.). And I know you like the current add system... :) But I think that this would give the paradox definition a much-needed "tightening" or fine-tuning: have paradox apply *strictly* to sets that end up on the *outside* of the body immediately prior to the dexterity (this would affirm your point about paradox spins--which do not currently get a paradox add, right?). > After a step you adjust so that the bag is directly in-front of you. After a step, the bag is in front of you. > And why leave add counts/difficulty aside if it supports the theory. For a clearer or more straight-forward definition of paradox? And because there are other ways of arriving at difficulty ratings that are (arguably) based upon a more accurate assessment of a move's components than the present system provides, which as you know, I believe to be inadequate enough to warrant some simple changes. But you and I have had this healthy disagreement for some time, so it's all good... > I imagine a majority would agree that a "fog" feels more difficult than a "haze", a "blur" more than a "stepping mirage", a blurry dragonfly than a stepping dragonfly, etc. Hence, the paradox within seems to fit... eh? Do these tricks share the same add count with their listed counterpart? Sunday, aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 19 06:55:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA06145 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:55:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA262 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:28:58 -0800 Received: by jsisfo22.jsishipping.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BE4332.06C433E0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com>; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:29:35 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE4332.06C433E0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] stepping paradox Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:29:34 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id GAA06110 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everybody, In response to response, Aaron said... >The reason why: some "paradox" sets actually *do* put the bag on the "outside" of the body (pdx mirage, >pdx drifter, pdx torque, etc.). The so-called "blurry" set does not. The "adjustment" is less. Of course, >such an amendment would necessarily involve other amendments to the add system (the "multi-dex >bonus", etc.). And I know you like the current add system... :) 1st.. paradox is not a set. Even so, I think I understand what you're getting at. Yet, I don't agree. Any X-body set is to the right or left of your support leg. However, all sets should be under your center of gravity and there is an adjustment so that the bag is "in front of you" following a cross body set.. when done well. Cross-body does not mean "outside" of the body or your center of gravity. 2nd.. blurry is not a set. 3rd.. the adjustment is not much less(if any?). There is, however, a dex incorporated in with the adjustment. 4th.. "multi-dex" BONUS???? 5th.. I know you, Aaron, don't like the current "Add system". However, it's not about like or dislike. It's about what works. In my opinion, you have given little evidence as to why the current add system "doesn't work" in the *over-all picture*. And yes, I have read much of what you have posted regarding. I said... >> And why leave add counts/difficulty aside if it supports the theory? Aaron said... >For a clearer or more straight-forward definition of paradox? This does not answer the question. Also, I said... >> I imagine a majority would agree that a "fog" feels more difficult than a "haze", a "blur" more than a "stepping mirage", a blurry dragonfly than a stepping dragonfly, etc. Hence, the paradox within seems to fit... eh? Aaron said... >Do these tricks share the same add count with their listed counterpart? This question, at the least, does not lend you credibility for debate on this issue. Haze - stepping-DLO (4-adds) Fog - stepping-paradox-DLO (5adds) Stepping mirage - stepping mirage (3) Blur - stepping-paradox-mirage (4) Stepping dragonfly - stepping-dragonfly (3) Blurry Dragonfly - stepping-paradox-dragonfly (4) By the way, I am reminded, a spin does not negate the paradox concept either. It simply switches the paradox dex to the opposite side of where it would've been without the spin. Anybody tired of this stepping, spinning, paradoxing crap yet? It's all Kenny's fault... Thanx Kenny! ironman From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 19 07:42:42 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA24641 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:42:42 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from one.mind.net (one.mind.net [206.99.66.5]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10779 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:59:23 -0800 Received: from 206.151.158.125 (ip119.mind.net [206.151.158.125]) by one.mind.net (8.8.8/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA13411 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:59:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A42E1C.5E40@mind.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:02:56 -0800 From: Forest Schrodt X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Hey all you footbagin geeks. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Whatz up all, just wanted to let you all know I am back on the list. I am workin on getting a sight for the second annual Southern Oregon Footbag Championships. I have been having trouble getting in contact with the new activities director at SOU. I am currently looking at some alternative locations. Have no fears, I am confident that things will pan out. At this point I am looking at holding it some time in early May as a great competion in itself and as an ideal warm-up for Western Regionals. Keep ya all informed as things evolve. Forest "Fastfoot" Schrodt PS: Red aint got no skillz just awholelottaaluck..... :) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 19 14:54:59 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA28457 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:54:59 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (root@diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA11139 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:53:07 -0800 Received: from default (madmax-41.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.41]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA20393 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:51:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990118235157.006a41e4@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:51:57 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Tu Vu Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping paradox In-Reply-To: <01BE4332.06C433E0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org eric wullf wrote, >By the way, I am reminded, a spin does not negate the paradox concept either. It simply switches the paradox dex to the opposite side of where it would've been without the spin. i totally agree. it's way harder to pull off the "paradox dex" than the gyro version. 2 huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 19 14:55:06 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id OAA28465 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:55:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Nageylum@aol.com Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id WVKSa15302; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:48:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <464df5c.36a47124@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:48:52 EST To: ewulff@jsishipping.com, freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping paradox Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 1/19/99 1:34:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, ewulff@jsishipping.com writes: > Anybody tired of this stepping, spinning, paradoxing crap yet? It's all > Kenny's fault... Thanx Kenny! Boy Kenny makes a great scapegoat(sp?) t-hee t-hee. hey while I'm at it I'll ask a question here. with a mobious is it easier to plant the set/dex leg before the dex or is it easier to just keep it in the air, i'm pretty sure i've seen it both ways, but i could be mistaken. Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 19 19:30:36 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA16113 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:30:36 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA03787; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:06:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx42-31.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.95) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma003605; Tue Jan 19 12:05:35 1999 Message-ID: <36A4CD18.4BB9@utdallas.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:21:12 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Wulff CC: "'freestyle'" Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping paradox References: <01BE4332.06C433E0@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eric Wulff wrote: > > > I imagine a majority would agree that a "fog" feels more difficult than > a "haze", a "blur" more than a "stepping mirage", a blurry dragonfly than a > stepping dragonfly, etc. Hence, the paradox within seems to fit... eh? Is this true for most people? I can hit blur much easier than stepping mirage. I've never hit a stepping dragonfly, but I have hit blurry dragonfly (that is like a blur bail to a kick, right?) The current add system definitely helps me out by giving a paradox add to the moves that are easier for me... making 4's easier than 3's. With the fog and the haze thing, I haven't ever hit either of these, but I have come closest to fog. So, am I just wierd that blurry (or stepping pdx if you want to say it that way) is easier for me? Also - this is kind of on the subject - I heard somewhere that blizzard is supposed to be easier than blur. Do most people feel that way, too? If so, give me some advice on blizzard, 'cuz I must be doing it the hard way. Later all! -Derric Dallas Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 19 19:30:57 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA16125 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:30:57 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA04377; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:11:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx42-31.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.95) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma004339; Tue Jan 19 12:10:57 1999 Message-ID: <36A4CE54.3F92@utdallas.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:26:28 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nageylum@aol.com CC: ewulff@jsishipping.com, freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping paradox References: <464df5c.36a47124@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Nageylum@aol.com wrote: > > hey while I'm at it I'll ask a question here. with a mobious is it easier to > plant the set/dex leg before the dex or is it easier to just keep it in the > air, It is much easier if you keep the set foot in the air. Steve Goldberg gave me the best advice on any spinning move. He said, "spin faster". It sounds too trivial at first, but after I went through the little phase of spinning really fast and losing my balance, I started to get it. For mobius, if you set a little above waist high, and spin really fast, you will see the bag is right there. As you are spinning, keep that knee up. It is a set and a spin all in one. Then, a little pause as you adjust to where the bag is, and then another spin as you jump over the bag for the torque. Hope this helps. Later -Derric Dallas Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 19 19:30:56 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA16120 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:30:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA18234 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:43:06 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA09003 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:42:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx42-31.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.95) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma008836; Tue Jan 19 12:41:58 1999 Message-ID: <36A4D59A.6D8D@utdallas.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:57:30 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Southern Regionals and VIDEO CLIPS! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. April is right around the corner and we all know what that means... the 1999 Southern Regional Footbag Championships are coming up. This tournament was held in Dallas last year, just as it will be done this year. I will write more in a few days to give details. On to the real reason for this message. We finally got a TV card for the computer which allowed my roommate to put up some video clips from the 1998 Southern Regional Footbag Championships. There are 12 clips (3 Daryl, 1 Eli, 6 Tuan, and 2 Rippin) all worth seeing. These are never before seen strings. Most are small and easy to download. Also, if you want a real treat, you can watch the live news coverage that we had promoting the tournament. Fox Sports came out and filmed a promo for us. Just go to http://dallasfootbag.org and click on multimedia. This is the same page where we will be posting details about the upcoming 1999 Southern Regionals. Check it out and I want to see everyone at this year's tournament. Later. -Derric Dallas Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 19 21:54:32 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA31155 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:54:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f271.hotmail.com [207.82.251.162]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA20726 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:29:17 -0800 Received: (qmail 12481 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jan 1999 21:28:48 -0000 Message-ID: <19990119212848.12480.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.252.202.131 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:28:47 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.252.202.131] From: "Steve Miskiewicz" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] funky colors Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:28:47 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just got my new facile juice today and do they come is some weird colors. Mine is 2 colors, one is red and the other is a funky zebra striped patten. Well I should be able to kick in lower light areas then I used to, just as soon as I break it in. Steve Miskiewicz ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 19 22:27:24 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA08052 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:27:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail03-oak.pilot.net (mail-oak-3.pilot.net [198.232.147.18]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA21105 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:56:57 -0800 Received: from sparky.fibre.com (sparky.fibre.com [206.189.10.11]) by mail03-oak.pilot.net with ESMTP id NAA03269 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:57:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from zzzconn02.fibre.com (zzzconn02.fibre.com [10.1.4.52]) by sparky.fibre.com with ESMTP id OAA25917 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:14:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by ZZZCONN02 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:57:21 -0800 Message-ID: <9D50F492BF0CD211902700A0C9AB1B839FFFD5@ZZZMAIL01.fibre.com> From: Noah Shipley To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Irvine Kicking? Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:56:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'll be taking a trip to Irvine this week...does anyone on this list live around there and want to kick? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 20 22:21:27 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA13118 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:21:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01993 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:37:11 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA07708 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:37:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx42-31.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.95) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma007690; Wed Jan 20 14:36:45 1999 Message-ID: <36A64221.30D3@utdallas.edu> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:52:49 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] video clips Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Since there were serveral questions about the format of the video clips on http://dallasfootbag.org/multimedia.html I just thought I would post another message to the whole list. Right now, they are in .mpg format. That is the only way we can scan them in using the software that came with my roommate's video card. We will put them up in a quicktime format also... this will just take a while. Try the site later tonight or tomorrow. Hopefully it will be done by then. Again, there are 12 strings from the 1998 Southern Regional Footbag Championships held annually in Dallas in the last half of April. The 1999 Southern Regionals are coming up. I'll post another message soon with details. -Derric Dallas Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 20 23:37:08 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA08639 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:37:08 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Aaron de Glanville Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04083 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:09:48 -0800 Received: from aaron (user-38ld6gv.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.154.31]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA02801 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:09:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990120150524.006dae64@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:05:24 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping paradox Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wasup y'all~ In response to response to etc... >1st.. paradox is not a set. I know, just meant "setting into a paradox move". Would you mind articulating your definition of paradox? Is it any different from what's posted on footbag.org? Clearly, not all definitions agree point-for-point. It seems to be less a matter of "what paradox *really* is" than "what will we finally agree that it should refer to?". >2nd.. blurry is not a set. If "blurry" moves always have a stepping paradox (do they?), then why not say "blurry set"? (Like Eli's "nuclear set"--a reverse paradox mirage set followed by an op.in.dex?). >4th.. "multi-dex" BONUS???? Thought you had read "much of" what I've posted! :) You couldn't take away the paradox add in stepping moves and end up with a fair add count unless you did something like, say, awarding a bonus dexterity add to multiple dex moves (with non-complementary double dexes). But these are just *playful* suggestions, freestyling with freestyle theory. No big deal. >5th.. I know you, Aaron, don't like the current "Add system". However, it's not >about like or dislike. It's about what works. Agreed. I'm with those who are curious about "what might work" a little better. This is not about a personal agenda to change the current add system just for the sake of changing it. >In my opinion, you have given little evidence as to why the current add system >"doesn't work" in the *over-all picture*. I think everyone agrees: it "works". And there is (always will be) room for improvement. The question for any proposed change is "how painful/costly will the improvements be for how much added benefit"? I don't claim to know, just furthering the discussion. People on this listserve are constantly coming up with creative suggestions for change--freestyling with freestyle, which is fun, and may even help the sport to evolve. >>> I imagine a majority would agree that a "fog" feels more difficult than >a "haze", a "blur" more than a "stepping mirage", a blurry dragonfly than a >stepping dragonfly, etc. Hence, the paradox within seems to fit... eh? See Derrick's very interesting post. I personally have hit blur and blurry dragonfly, but not their counterparts. I'm not sure, these may be (several of many) examples of tricks that are not as easily separated by a full add of difference (pretending that adds measure difficulty, for the moment). peace aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 21 02:24:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id CAA24769 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 02:24:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: (qmail 26493 invoked by uid 0); 21 Jan 1999 00:57:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19990121005729.26492.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 199.60.118.229 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:57:27 PST X-Originating-IP: [199.60.118.229] From: "Allan Haggett" To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] addless Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:57:27 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Like-minded individuals, I had one of the most rewarding sessions of my life yesterday. I was feeling agitated and restless and decided after a little external inspiration to go downstairs to my garage and play by myself, as I was home alone. My mind was not on playing. I kicked. Just kicked. No toe stall, no clipper. I wasn't even really thinking about what came next. Normally, a state of predetermined moves fills my concious mind, each visual of each move sliding by milliseconds before they are expressed physically; each one spontaneously planned. This eve however freestyle as we have come to know it was far off in my minds eye. I have no idea how long I kicked for without dropping. Could've been 30 times, 300... I lost track of time completely. Serene is the best word that I can think of right now to describe it. Drops didn't frustrate the state and I found that when I was interupted by Jubal and Quan coming home the agitation and restlessness of ealier had completely disappeared. I felt relaxed and comfortable; clear headed if you will. Now I have reached this state before many times, in fact the stress relief I achieve from playing has kept me sane (or so I adimantly believe) for some years. Obviously there was some attraction of this kind before I could perform delays or any 'tricks' but I suppose it must have been on a subconcious level. Shredding gives a similar, if not more effective, version of this Phenomenon, But I cannot remember ever being concious of a DISTINCT change in my physiological AND psycological frames from just kicking. I might theorize that the pedantic motions of the basic, uncomplicated kicks mixed with the (albeit sub-concious) mind set of non-commital action produced a meditative effect hence unknown to this individual. Have any of you out there ever experienced anything of the kind? Please respond. I am going to try to reproduce this feeling from a more concious standpoint as my curiousity has certainly been peaked. Maybe I'll post what happens if anyone is interested. Maybe y'all will laugh at me for having just discovered this though. Just thought I'd change the subject anyway. Peace ... Allan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 21 03:56:31 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA20982 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 03:56:31 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Problems1@aol.com Received: from Problems1@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id SHWBa03539; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:11:46 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:11:46 EST To: allan_haggett@hotmail.com, freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] addless Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dear Allan, I know exactly what you mean. before I was exposed to freestyle, I used to see how many times I could just hit the hack. I did this again a few months ago, I hit it 7 shy of 1200 times, occaisionally throwing in an inside stall, just for the hell of it. it was cool, and I fell into a groove, a total eye- hack-eye coordination link. it was cool when it was over, I had just run a cross country race that morning, but I wasn't tired. it was cool, and it really impressed some people that were watching. I haven't tried to break my record since, but I think I could some day. Good story... gets right down to the roots of what hack is all about. Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 21 03:56:43 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA20988 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 03:56:43 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA284 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:51:42 -0800 Received: by jsisfo22.jsishipping.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BE449D.9B4FB900@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:52:11 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE449D.9B4FB900@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] easier FOR YOU Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:52:10 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id CAA24260 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ssup Derric and all out there, This is my response to what Derric said below... In the future please send to the list only and I will respond there. My only e-mail address is at my work and I can't respond to each individual e-mail. It would be to much personal stuff at work. I prefer to answer once a day to the list. I receive the digest so that I see all messages in one e-mail daily. Anyway, with regards to what is easier for you or not, you have some good points. However, I think that the 4 add moves, which you talk about below, are easier than the 3 adds(for you) because you don't do the threes nearly as often, if ever. Not because the 4 add tricks are simpler. You are just better at them thru repetition. Also, blur or blurry dragonfly may contain body-side elements which are stronger for you as opposed to the stepping dragonfly or mirage which might contain the elements which are weaker on that side. i.e.- strong side step set to strong side paradox mirage as opposed to strong side step set to weak side mirage or vice versa. At any rate, I learned stepping mirage well after blur and blur was invented first. At first stepping mirage was more difficult FOR ME. Yet now that these moves are regulars for me, the ones containing a paradox feel more difficult. Another example outside of footbag... when I was into gymnastics & diving I first learned a single flip. After learning a double, in diving, trying to go back and do a single was very difficult. I often over rotated and "CRASHED". This does not mean that the single is more diff. than the double. Thanx Later Eric >===== Original Message From Derric Scalf ===== Eric Wulff wrote: > > > I imagine a majority would agree that a "fog" feels more difficult than > a "haze", a "blur" more than a "stepping mirage", a blurry dragonfly than a > stepping dragonfly, etc. Hence, the paradox within seems to fit... eh? >Is this true for most people? I can hit blur much easier than stepping >mirage. I've never hit a stepping dragonfly, but I have hit blurry >dragonfly (that is like a blur bail to a kick, right?) The current add >system definitely helps me out by giving a paradox add to the moves that >are easier for me... making 4's easier than 3's. With the fog and the >haze thing, I haven't ever hit either of these, but I have come closest >to fog. >So, am I just wierd that blurry (or stepping pdx if you want to say it >that way) is easier for me? >Also - this is kind of on the subject - I heard somewhere that blizzard >is supposed to be easier than blur. Do most people feel that way, too? >If so, give me some advice on blizzard, 'cuz I must be doing it the hard >way. Later all! >-Derric >Dallas Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 21 06:35:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA12132 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:35:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: (qmail 23204 invoked by uid 0); 21 Jan 1999 04:25:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19990121042544.23203.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.205.161.81 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:25:43 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.205.161.81] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: allan_haggett@hotmail.com, freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] addless Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:25:43 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. Allan Hagget wrote about his kicking: Normally, a state of predetermined moves fills my concious >mind, each visual of each move sliding by milliseconds before they are >expressed physically; each one spontaneously planned. Spontaneously planned moves? Is that like eating Jumbo Shrimp? Ken "CF" somolinos nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 22 01:40:45 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA14457 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 01:40:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f63.hotmail.com [207.82.251.197]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA19214 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:04:40 -0800 Received: (qmail 10997 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jan 1999 01:04:11 -0000 Message-ID: <19990122010411.10996.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.205.160.164 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:04:10 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.205.160.164] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] names Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:04:10 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all. I was wondering if stepping torque has another name, like stepping dlo is haze. I've been calling it storque, which seems pretty natural. While I haven't been hitting gyro barfly, I was wondering if it too had a different name, I think "Garfield" is a good name for it. Anybody know different? Ken "ceiling fan" Somolinos ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 22 05:13:44 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA16337 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:13:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA280 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:30:20 -0800 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:30:44 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE457C.EBBDD360.ewulff@jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] more on step paradox stuff... Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:30:41 -0800 Organization: JSI Shipping X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 55 TEXT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Y'all, Aaron said.. >If "blurry" moves always have a stepping paradox (do they?), then why not say "blurry set"? (Like Eli's >"nuclear set"--a reverse paradox mirage set followed by an op.in.dex?). As I stated in my previous posts which you are replying to, I believe blur is a move... Period. Blizzard is a similar move with the same set, but we don't call these sets blizzies. In order to break down moves into components I suggest we leave out terms which also can be broken down into components. i.e.- "What is a Fog?" It is a blurry double leg-over. "O.K., What is a blurry DLO?" It is a stepping paradox double leg-over. Again, I think I can figure out what someone is referring to if they use the blurry term. However, when clarifying I would ask... "you mean a stepping paradox blah blah?" Blurry, TECHNICALLY, is not a set. >Thought you had read "much of" what I've posted! :) You couldn't take away the paradox add in >stepping moves and end up with a fair add count unless you did something like, say, awarding a bonus >dexterity add to multiple dex moves (with non-complementary double dexes). But these are just *playful* >suggestions, freestyling with freestyle theory. No big deal. Then why take it away? Why erase the paradox concept in order to replace it with another add concept? The paradox is still there. There is simply a dex before it. Freestylin with freestyle is proposing change for changes sake. Is there a basis for the proposed change? >I think everyone agrees: it "works". And there is (always will be) room for improvement. The question for >any proposed change is "how painful/costly will the improvements be for how much added benefit"? I >don't claim to know, just furthering the discussion. People on this listserve are constantly coming up >with creative suggestions for change--freestyling with freestyle, which is fun, and may even help the >sport to evolve. I'm claiming to know. But only you and y'll can be the judge. I say, now it is too painful for the added benefit. I don't see the added benefit. If you're out to change the add system for the better, I'd like to see where the major flaws are. MAJOR is the key word. Because it would be a major undertaking to improve on this good system. >See Derrick's very interesting post.. Saw it. Replied to it. I think my reply works for what you said also. I know the theory applies to me in many areas. What it izzz... Eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 22 07:24:30 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA22159 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:24:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA21958 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:04:19 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-140.nccn.net [209.79.221.140]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-99.01.05-) with SMTP id WAA21773 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:04:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001901be45cc$8ec0d680$8cdd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] re:harder? Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:59:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I think that what Eric said about the difficulty of the paradox containing moves is true. Stepping mirage is really easy compared to blur for me and I've practiced blur more. But Blizzard is way harder than blur in my mind. About spinning paradox I totally agree with Eric. Is it really worth more adds? Is paradox mobius 6adds? -Lon From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 22 19:10:40 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA22392 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:10:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f40.hotmail.com [209.185.131.103]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA26932 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:33:19 -0800 Received: (qmail 9013 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jan 1999 16:32:32 -0000 Message-ID: <19990122163232.9012.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 139.67.27.159 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:32:31 PST X-Originating-IP: [139.67.27.159] From: "Frank Gutowski" To: scalf@utdallas.edu, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] footbag - Amsterdam... Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:32:31 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yo yo yo kickers, To all you shred-heads, I am going to be in Holland from May 11-June 10 or so. I have already contacted some Amsterdam kickers, so I know there will be some shredden going down. If anyone is going to be in europa at that time let me know, we can shred/party/shred/party/shred(seriously, the emphasis is on da shred) On another note, just reminding everyone of the 5th annual hack club footbag festival in Charleston,IL on April 17-18. I just want to let those dallas freaks know that it would be great if they thought about coming up, even though their rockin tourney is the next weekend. To those give a rats arss, I am shredding, fully recovered from my injury. If anyone has hit, or hints for symp.para.torque let me know, been trying it, but can't get that crank for the last three or four inches. P.S. I kicked with Joe Marshall(law), Derrick Fogle, and Shred Fred last month - they all got skillz, but Eli was right Fred gots da skillz to pay da billz(but,as we all know fred has the phenomena of perpetual luck on his side). Frank Gutowski From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 22 19:10:50 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA22398 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:10:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from ems.salk.edu (ems.salk.edu [198.202.69.12]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27859 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:27:35 -0800 Received: from [198.202.67.148] (198.202.67.148) by ems.salk.edu (Worldmail 1.3.167) for freestyle@footbag.org; 22 Jan 1999 09:28:47 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001901be45cc$8ec0d680$8cdd4fd1@left> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:35:14 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Cameron D Kennedy Subject: [freestyle] stepping mirage. Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Is stepping mirage a barrage with a plant between the two dexes ? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 23 00:41:58 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA30077 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 00:41:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA32622 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:54:45 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA17823 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:54:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx42-31.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.95) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma017794; Fri Jan 22 16:53:58 1999 Message-ID: <36A9056E.7A87@utdallas.edu> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:10:38 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping mirage. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Cameron D Kennedy wrote: > > Is stepping mirage a barrage with a plant between the two dexes ? Yep. Stepping is a clipper set mirage followed by something. The set implies that there is no paradox. So, stepping mirage is a clipper set mirage followed by another non paradox mirage. Blur is not stepping because it is a clipper set mirage followed by a paradox mirage. Paradox negates stepping, so it is called blurry (stepping pdx). I don't care much for all of this pdx stuff, so read on if you are interrested. The only problem with the stepping concept is when you get into moves that aren't paradox at all. Such as stepping butterfly. Does this mean stepping same side butterfly, or stepping other side butterfly (ripwalk)? Or, stepping double over down (is this blurrier or blurriest?) Because of these problems in defining moves to people new to the sport, I prefer to use 'blurry' to mean 'stepping other side' and 'stepping' to mean 'stepping same side'. Hence, ripwalk could be called a blurry butterfly. This in no way implies paradox... it just means stepping other side. I am currently in the minority with this opinion. Others who have been hitting every move for years feel that stepping should encompass same side as well as other side. To newer players who are trying to learn the convoluted nomenclature of this sport, however, it would be easier to have one name meaning only one thing. I do agree with part of what Eric was saying about blurry should not be considered a 'stepping pdx' set. I don't think any set should be defined by paradox (which is hard enough to define on its own). But, I do think that 'blurry' should be considered a set to mean stepping other side. I don't mean to offend anyone. Just think about what I am saying and see if it makes more sense to have one word mean one thing and another word mean another thing. When people are trying to learn stuff, you have to explain why some unique moves share names. Too much confusion drives away some people. Just my thoughts.... -Derric Dallas Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 23 03:01:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA03682 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:01:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: (qmail 15615 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jan 1999 00:40:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19990123004008.15614.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 199.60.118.146 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:40:07 PST X-Originating-IP: [199.60.118.146] From: "Allan Haggett" To: footbug@hotmail.com Cc: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Shrimp? Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:40:07 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ken, >Spontaneously planned moves? Is that like eating Jumbo Shrimp? I was hoping that someone would notice the oxymoron. You know what I mean though, right? You get the bag, you start to play. You see the moves that you want to do flash through just before they happen; if the sets right then its executed, if not then you just change to another, maybe similar, move. Its not necessarily a bail out of what you intended but nevertheless its not what you originally saw. That's what I meant insofar as 'spontaneous'. I've landed things before that I never even knew I could do because the set for what I intended was 'just a little off' and the new move just popped in. Dig? Allan PS thanx 4 making me crave something I can't afford. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 23 05:06:20 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA18360 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:06:20 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f87.hotmail.com [207.82.250.193]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA02504 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:32:31 -0800 Received: (qmail 11712 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jan 1999 03:32:02 -0000 Message-ID: <19990123033202.11711.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.205.162.90 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:32:01 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.205.162.90] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: magician@nccn.net, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] re:harder? Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:32:01 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey hey. Lon asked: Is paradox mobius 6adds? Slow down. Mobius is gyro torque, and you can't have a paradox gyro, it just can't exist. Maybe you are talking about in spinning torque, which Peter Irish hits on the 96 shred video. To my knowledge and in-spin gets only one add. Ken CF Somolinos nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 23 05:06:49 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA18373 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:06:49 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f230.hotmail.com [207.82.251.121]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA02565 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:34:41 -0800 Received: (qmail 19270 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jan 1999 03:34:12 -0000 Message-ID: <19990123033412.19269.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.205.162.90 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:34:11 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.205.162.90] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: ckennedy@ems.salk.edu, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] stepping mirage. Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:34:11 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi. Cameron wrote: > > > >Is stepping mirage a barrage with a plant between the two dexes ? Yup, just like storque is a barroque with a plant between the dexes. Ceiling Fan nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 23 06:24:54 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA05113 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 06:24:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA275 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:27:02 -0800 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:27:27 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE464E.02A4C9E0.ewulff@jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] that's right... more on step Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:27:24 -0800 Organization: JSI Shipping X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 28 TEXT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wassup y'all Lon said... >Is paradox mobius 6adds? According to the current system, paradox mobius isn't even a move because a spin negates the paradox concept. HOWEVER, paradox mobius is - x-body>1 spin out>op(torque) in dex>op osis - 6 adds. Please excuse my notation if it ain't PC. According to the current system this is a "spinning torque"???-5 adds And a mobius is a gyro torque??? NO, it is really a spinning torque. I don't believe in the "gyro" is a concept either. Here is another move(originally gyro butterfly was a "Gyro") which was somehow turned into a concept. In my little freestyle world there are spins and spins with paradox. No gyro **concepts**... TECHNICALLY. Cameron said... >Is stepping mirage a barrage with a plant between the two dexes ? Yes... basically. Dont' practice your mirages in order to learn this move though. Practice your steps. O.K. for now y'all... Everybody have fun tonight! Everybody Wang Chu... ahhh nevermind... IRONMAN From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 23 18:03:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA28509 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:03:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from ems.salk.edu (ems.salk.edu [198.202.69.12]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09889 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 09:24:39 -0800 Received: from [198.202.67.148] (198.202.67.148) by ems.salk.edu (Worldmail 1.3.167) for freestyle@footbag.org; 23 Jan 1999 09:25:50 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BE40BB.E0B25C40@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 09:32:22 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Cameron D Kennedy Subject: Re: [freestyle] steppingblurringspinningparadoxing.... uh.. yeh! Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eric wrote "fog" feels more difficult than a "haze", "blur" more than a "stepping mirage", Hence, the paradox within seems to fit... eh? i write I agree that the paradox seems legit, but i don't believe these to be paradox/nonparadox isomers of the same move. I would think that smear would be the non-paradox counterpart of blur. And paradox barraging legover the paradox equivalent of haze. With a tap after the first dex in the pdox move. I would also think the non-paradox fog would be pixie double legover. stepping mirage is just barrage with a plant in it , thus it's paradox allele would be a paradox barrage with a plant. -- cameron From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Jan 24 09:20:42 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id JAA28479 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:20:42 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17059 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:55:12 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-165.nccn.net [209.79.221.165]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-99.01.05-) with SMTP id XAA25031 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:55:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001a01be476e$605dfea0$a5dd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] Garfield? Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:48:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I don't think gyro doubble should be called garfield. But I do like the name storque for stepping op osis. I also liked the idea of having stepping being same leg dexes and blurry becoming an actual term that would mean stepping then opposite leg dexes. Why Not? LON From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Jan 24 09:20:46 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id JAA28485 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:20:46 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17054 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:55:10 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-165.nccn.net [209.79.221.165]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-99.01.05-) with SMTP id XAA25028 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:55:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001901be476e$5f7c2a20$a5dd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] Spins Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:44:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eric said, "In my little freestyle world there are spins and spins with paradox. No gyro **concepts**... TECHNICALLY." I agree with this. And I think paradox spinning moves should get the paradox add since the best way to word them and think about them is with paradox. -Lon From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Jan 24 19:25:42 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA22226 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:25:42 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f44.hotmail.com [207.82.250.55]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA20277 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 06:46:04 -0800 Received: (qmail 2895 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jan 1999 14:45:31 -0000 Message-ID: <19990124144531.2894.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 129.187.254.49 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 06:45:31 PST X-Originating-IP: [129.187.254.49] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] A new miraje? Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 06:45:31 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I had an idea for a move, picture this from a left toe set do a right side back to front swirl and catch it with the set leg again, for the job's fans that would be: toe>same b-f>same toe Probably because I was wearing jeans and skate shoes I couldn't get a clean catch, but this is the neatest set I've ever seen. As soon as I bust out my Lavers again, I'll see what I can do with it. I'm guessing anything this "simple" has been hit before, anyone, Scott D. I'm guessing. -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Jan 24 19:25:44 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA22232 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:25:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f150.hotmail.com [207.82.251.29]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA20328 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 07:02:27 -0800 Received: (qmail 10817 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jan 1999 15:01:58 -0000 Message-ID: <19990124150158.10816.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 07:01:58 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: magician@nccn.net, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Garfield? Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 07:01:58 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all. Lon replied to my name suggestions by saying: But I do like the >name storque for stepping op osis. No no, the move I am hitting isn't a step set op side osis, it is a step set torque. So it isn't a torque with a plant, it is a barroque with a plant. Ken "CF" Somolinos nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Jan 24 21:41:40 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA04000 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:41:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from 206.151.158.107 (ip101.mind.net [206.151.158.107]) by one.mind.net (8.8.8/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA28320 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:06:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36AB8C1B.44CF@mind.net> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:09:52 -0800 From: fastfoot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] that's right... more on step Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Da Iron Man said: > In my little freestyle world there are spins and spins with paradox. No gyro **concepts**... TECHNICALLY. I agree when it comes to regular mirages, but, I am curious if you think that a spin to reverse mirage or "gyro" to reverse mirage are at seperate dificulty levels as well. Spinning egg beater and gyro egg beater for example. To me the paradox spin egg beater seems a little easier than the spin or gyro version. The gyro version seems more difficult because it requires a quicker change of direction than the spin version. I guess that the point I am trying to bring up in this discussion is with a gyro reverse mirage, you cannot carry your momentum from the spin into the next move like you can with a gyro regular mirage whitch is what makes a gyro mirage easier than its spinning counterpart. Watcha think?... TeCHNiCaLLY. Forest Fastfoot Schrodt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 25 05:37:01 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA25738 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:37:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Allman144@aol.com Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 6CBHa19751 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:07:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <70c5b6e6.36abfc19@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:07:37 EST To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] A new miraje? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andrew wrote: << I had an idea for a move, picture this from a left toe set do a right side back to front swirl and catch it with the set leg again, for the job's fans that would be: toe>same b-f>same toe >> I think it should be toe> opp b-f > opp toe Tony From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 25 16:04:16 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA26961 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:04:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f40.hotmail.com [207.82.250.51]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA02468 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:52:57 -0800 Received: (qmail 15557 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jan 1999 12:52:28 -0000 Message-ID: <19990125125228.15556.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.143 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:52:27 PST X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.143] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Re: (freestyle) a new miraje? Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:52:27 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "heal flip" Allan Haggett wrote: >Slight confusion. Are you doing the swirl, then turning to catch the >bag in front of you, or are you swirling and catching it while it's >still x-body and carrying it through? If you're doing the turn and >seperating the swirl and the toe catch then Holy Tweaked Out S*@1!T Ok with my faith in Job's shattered (or maybe just my ability to comunicate) let's try this one more time. Example from a left toe delay, set turn to the right, performe a full back to front swirl with the leg leg, then spin back and catch the bag again in front of you with the left foot again. I guess that's kind of hard to notate in Job's. Anyone have any idea how to indicate which side of the support leg the catching leg is in Job's? So long as I'm at it another move I love (but haven't hit cleanly, my swirls suck) for example set from left toe, performe a right side front to back swirl then performe a reverce leg over with the right leg. Garnish with roast Merkon. -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 25 19:06:29 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id TAA21213 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:06:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (root@diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06781 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:30:10 -0800 Received: from default (madmax-45.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.45]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA18192; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:27:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990125102009.0069e92c@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:20:09 -0800 To: "KeN Somolinos" , freestyle@footbag.org From: Tu Vu Subject: Re: [freestyle] Garfield? In-Reply-To: <19990124150158.10816.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 07:01 AM 1/24/99 PST, KeN Somolinos wrote: > >Hi all. >Lon replied to my name suggestions by saying: > But I do like the >>name storque for stepping op osis. > >No no, the move I am hitting isn't a step set op side osis, it is a step >set torque. So it isn't a torque with a plant, it is a barroque with a >plant. >Ken "CF" Somolinos >nyfD ken my bro, tuan vu, has hit stepping torque a long time ago and already has a name for it, sorry. i'll find out the name. 2 huge From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Jan 25 23:48:38 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA09838 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:48:38 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10468 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:46:05 -0800 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id RAA26032; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:54:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:54:09 -0500 (EST) From: Deliciously Saucy Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] A new miraje? In-Reply-To: <19990124144531.2894.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I had an idea for a move, picture this from a left toe set do a right > side back to front swirl and catch it with the set leg again, for the > job's fans that would be: I think this is a supercool idea- just make sure you're not circling the bag beneath your body, or all will be for naught. What can you do after the dexterity? Can you catch it on the other clipper (the set leg?) In fact I think you should create a new name for this trick. For what is a whirl, but a mirage? What is a whirling swirl, but an eggbeater? Dear newbies and nitpickers: this statement was only for the purpose of theoretical observation. Please don't hate mail me because I've confrused whirling swirl and eggbeater. They aren't the same. I know it. You know it. Pass the bag. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 26 00:20:47 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA19454 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:20:47 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11105; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:48:39 -0800 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id QLDNa07784; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:45:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:45:59 EST To: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle] A new miraje? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 1/25/99 3:26:32 PM, jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu wrote: <> I agree totally... theoretically they are both the same.. of course I go by the same precaution josh gave.. ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 26 01:59:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA15450 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:59:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Allman144@aol.com Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id GYALa01222 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:10:50 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <5374d68f.36ad161a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:10:50 EST To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Jeopardy! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was watching Jeopardy today and one of the categories was "Rods." The clue was "He was the first person to win two Grand Slam titles." The answer is Rod Laver, and nobody knew it, except for me of course (and all of you other footbaggers who watch Jeopardy). Tony Glick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 26 03:34:25 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA19286 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 03:34:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz ([202.27.103.146]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13135 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:23:17 -0800 Received: by mail.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:21:06 +1300 Message-ID: <11FA7FAAAED1D01194C700203573F13C2804E3@mail.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: "'freestyle@footbag.org'" Subject: [freestyle] Mt Maunganui Freestyle Tournament Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:21:05 +1300 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id CAA01324 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, Just found out about a tournament in Mt Maunganui, New Zealand this weekend. I don't know if there are any New Zealanders on this list apart from me, Stuart and Damian, but it's worth a shot ! Saturday and Sunday 30th Januarary By the Beach at Mt Maunganui Team and Individual freestyle Lots of prizes including $$$ up for grabs Give me a bell on 025-423-742 Cheers PS. If I don't see you there, you better be going to the Vegas Tourny ! Ÿdr°’- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 26 03:44:34 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA20707 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 03:44:34 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: (qmail 19064 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jan 1999 03:16:04 -0000 Message-ID: <19990126031603.19063.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.25.108.130 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:16:02 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.25.108.130] From: "James Holt" To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Jeopardy!/hatchet Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:16:02 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >I was watching Jeopardy today and one of the categories was "Rods." The clue was "He was the first person to win two Grand Slam titles." The answer is Rod Laver, and nobody knew it, except for me of course (and all of you other footbaggers who watch Jeopardy). Tony Glick hey dude your not alone I saw it to it was cool I was going to mail the list but I didnt think it was worth it but I guess you did! while Im babling on I might as well tell ever1 about this move I though of ok imagine you have a stick or pole attached to your right foot pointed towards your left foot about 2 feet long. ok you do a Pendulum then you have to jump over the pole with your left foot does any1 get what Im saying? ok but then think of it with out the pole you jump ever. Im not sure if this would count as a flyer but if you do it big enough it might. I have tryed it before but I dont have the strength or control to pull it off. I thought a good name for it would be a hatchet. if this move is around please tell me thanks ever1. James ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Jan 26 09:46:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id JAA14413 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:46:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA223 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:08:25 -0800 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:08:48 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE48C0.0BC91200.ewulff@jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] checkin in Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:08:47 -0800 Organization: JSI Shipping X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 78 TEXT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi y'all... Derric wrote... >Yep. Stepping is a clipper set mirage followed by something. The set >implies that there is no paradox. Yes & NO.. Step has no implication of what follows the set. For example, A "blur" is a stepping-paradox mirage. Also wrote... >The only problem with the stepping concept is when you get into moves >that aren't paradox at all. Such as stepping butterfly. Does this mean >stepping same side butterfly, or stepping other side butterfly >(ripwalk)? What problem? No problem.. You can answer your own question my friend. It would depend on what side you are doing your butterfly following the step. A Rip-walk is a stepping-op butterfly. Many freestylers refer to a stepping-same butterfly as a stepping butterfly. This is simplified because it doesn't have a catchy name like the "Rip Walk". However, one is usually referring to a stepping>same butterfly when saying "stepping butterfly" which is TECHNICALLY incorrect as a DESCRIPTION but widely accepted as the "NAME" of the move "stepping-same butterfly". Therefore, the problem isn't with the step concept. The problem is many are leaving out elements in the explanation of a move when describing them to "new" players. Cameron wrote... >I agree that the paradox seems legit, but i don't believe these to be >paradox/nonparadox isomers of the same move. I would think that smear >would be the non-paradox counterpart of blur. And paradox barraging >legover the paradox equivalent of haze. With a tap after the first dex in >the pdox move. >I would also think the non-paradox fog would be pixie double legover. On which side do you do your DLO in the example"pixie-DLO"? Op or Same. That is important. >stepping mirage is just barrage with a plant in it , thus it's paradox >allele would be a paradox barrage with a plant. I see what your saying. Very Interesting! What you are saying is correct but NOT in this context. In other words, if you are responding to my postings regarding steps and paradoxes and my examples of such please understand... You are comparing moves with "pixie sets" to moves with "step-sets". I am not. Haze is a stepping-DLO. Fog is a stepping-paradox DLO. If you are comparing the paradox vs. non-paradox versions of "stepping moves" than these are the moves to look at. Also, you compared paradox steps to step. I was not discussing paradox steps at all but stepping-paradoxes. Sorry if I put my words in the wrong order at some point but I don't think I did. If you want compare a stepping-paradox mirage(blur) to it's stepping-not pardox counterpart. Than you would look at 'blur"(stepping-paradox mirage vs. "stepping-mirage"(stepping-not paradox mirage). Forest Said... >I guess that the point I am trying to bring up in this discussion is >with a gyro reverse mirage, you cannot carry your momentum from the spin >into the next move like you can with a gyro regular mirage which is >what makes a gyro mirage easier than its spinning counterpart. >Watcha think?... TeCHNiCaLLY. To be honest, I'm not sure what to think on this "big guy". It's a good point. I've rarely done any of these moves and can't speak from experience. i can say, I've always had a problem with any paradox which contains an out-in dex. Never understood it. The motion never felt at all like an in-out paradox which was the "Original Coke". Know what I'm sayin biff? I do feel that my theory on Paradox and spins would apply better to in-out dexes and the same(just as weakly) to out-in dexes as the old theory. What it izzz.. i-man From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 27 07:12:56 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA32502 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:12:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from postman.bayarea.net (postman.bayarea.net [205.219.84.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA29750 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:45:18 -0800 Received: from baygate.bayarea.net (baygate.bayarea.net [204.71.212.2]) by postman.bayarea.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA11848 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:45:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from gram (205-219-66-222.bayarea.net [205.219.66.222]) by baygate.bayarea.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA27054 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:45:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001701be49c1$1885f2e0$de42dbcd@gram> Reply-To: "Jboy" From: "Jboy Gran" To: Subject: [freestyle] Re: A New Mirage Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:48:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE497E.055954C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE497E.055954C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know who posted the message about the "new mirage," but whoever to whoever it was: That's my move!! I thought it up and hit it a long time ago, and named it the Orbital. Further, I have hit a similar move that goes like this: toe>op b/f>op in/out>op toe I named it the "orbiting mirage" You start on a left toe, set the bag up, swirl with the right foot, then step over it with your left leg, similar to a simple clipper-to-mirage, and end on a right toe delay. Jboy ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE497E.055954C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I don't know who posted the message = about the=20 "new mirage," but whoever to whoever it was:  That's my=20 move!!  I thought it up and hit it a long time ago, and named it = the=20 Orbital.  Further, I have hit a similar move that goes like=20 this:
 
toe>op b/f>op in/out>op=20 toe
 
I named it the "orbiting=20 mirage"
 
You start on a left toe, set the bag up, swirl with = the right=20 foot, then step over it with your left leg, similar to a simple=20 clipper-to-mirage, and end on a right toe delay.
 
Jboy
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE497E.055954C0-- From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Jan 27 22:21:57 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA13167 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:21:57 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f eceived: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA07788 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:44:30 -0800 Received: from [207.208.34.102] (d102.nhe2.interaccess.com [207.208.34.102]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA01360 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:44:27 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:06:52 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Enlightener (Scott Davidson)" Subject: [freestyle] Travellin' Man Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! Look out for the travellin' man... Ethan Kline. He is crossing the country (from PA) on an all out mad dash to shred with as many bad-boyz and girlz as he can, while ending up safely in his new home in San Francisco. He should be shreddin' with Eli, Daryl and Rippin' by now (and Dave and all the Denver area shredders). Then, I am sure he is off to his next shred destination. He called us Sat. night and wanted to shred on Sunday... we met at the Y and pulled a 9:00a.m. Sunday shred off in the dance room. It felt great. Ethan looks better than ever (he hit his second-ever paradox double leg over), Val got out and pulled off some of her favorites, proving that she hasn't lost it, and I finally got to kick with a high level shredder of the likes of Ethan. It felt great! If you live somewhere on the general route between Denver and San Francisco, you might want to email Eli and set up a shred session with Ethan while he passes through. It was great to shred with someone, I am "jones'n" to shred people who can appreciate freestyle. See ya! Scott Davidson (and Valeria and Alex) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 28 05:37:14 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA25063 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:37:14 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from left (tc2-166.nccn.net [209.79.221.166]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-99.01.05-) with SMTP id UAA10785; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:48:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003001be4a78$f30b7d60$a6dd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] A new miraje? Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:43:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andrew wrote > set from left toe, performe a right side front to back swirl >then performe a reverce leg over with the right leg. Garnish with roast >Merkon. Garnish with roast Merkon ahh? Sounds pretty nutty. I understand what you're saying I hope. So you set the bag, jump really fast doing the swirl while the bag is still moving up, then spin clockwise and do a tricky out in dex with the right foot landing in a right toe delay? That is cool but that isn't really merkon, its more of a swirling gyro reverse pickup, right? I've got that feeling like I'm wrong. LON From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Jan 28 17:26:45 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA15316 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:26:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f119.hotmail.com [207.82.250.172]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA20263 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:55:18 -0800 Received: (qmail 16625 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jan 1999 16:54:36 -0000 Message-ID: <19990128165436.16624.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.137 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:54:31 PST X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.137] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: not a merkon (was Re: [freestyle] A new miraje?) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:54:31 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Lon wrote: >So you set the bag, jump really fast doing the >swirl while the bag is still moving up, then >spin clockwise and do a tricky out in dex with >the right foot landing in a right toe delay? Almost. Set from left toe performe a front to back swirl with the left leg then bail to right foot in-out leg over, but no spinning, all the dexes are done on the right side. Ahren (sp) once wrote that we should sugest moves to one another, so Scott if you reading, this looks so much like something you'd do. And if it's not already claimed I name it cycle. Now on a different tyrade it ocurred to me we really shouldn't ever argue about set names, I mean ever. We only name them to help describe moves right? So really the definition should be simple and visually intuative, that is a definition that will help other players visualize the move. With this in mind I have listed the most used set names and suggest that what ever their TECHNICAL definitions are right now they be changed to the following, for the sake of clarity, consistancy, and brevity when explaining moves. Blurry, even if as one contends this really isn't a set name, nevertheless have it mean: A clipper set in-out dex followed by an element from the opp leg or crossbody. Stepping: A clipper set in-out dex followed by an element from the same leg or crossbody. Atomic: A toe set out-in dex followed (after the dex leg has planted) by an element from the opp leg or crossbody. Tapping: A toe set out-in dex followed (after the dex leg has planted) by an element from the same leg or crossbody. and with Eli monster's permision Nuclear(sp): A clipper set opp out-in dex followed by an element from the opp leg or crossbody. Nucleus(sp): A clipper set opp out-in dex followed by an element from the same leg or crossbody. And well you all get the idea, other common used sets can follow these lines too, like buba and gyro vs. spinning. Agreement, hate mail, anyone? -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 29 01:27:29 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA05230 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:27:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA252 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:47:03 -0800 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:47:30 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE4ADD.E512E080.ewulff@jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] Uh.. No! Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:47:29 -0800 Organization: JSI Shipping X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 19 TEXT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andrew McCarger wrote... >Now on a different tyrade it ocurred to me we really shouldn't ever >argue about set names, I mean ever. We only name them to help describe >moves right? So really the definition should be simple and visually >intuative, that is a definition that will help other players visualize >the move. With this in mind I have listed the most used set names and >suggest that what ever their TECHNICAL definitions are right now they be >changed to the following, for the sake of clarity, consistancy, and >brevity when explaining moves. What?! I'm tryin not to loose it here.... Perhaps this is a joke... If not, I'll simply say that I strongly disagree. If it is a joke... um.. hah?? Perhaps I'll write more on this later if I can stomach it. What it AIN'T... Eric "The Ironaman's been kickin freestyle for as long as many of you've been alive and I don't know everything about it but I know an awful lot" Wulff From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 29 03:23:01 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA10961 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:23:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Aaron de Glanville Received: from dewdrop2.mindspring.com (dewdrop2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28899 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:27:39 -0800 Received: from aaron (user-38ld6fd.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.153.237]) by dewdrop2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA16132 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:27:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990128182306.006e798c@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:23:06 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] getting technical In-Reply-To: <19990128165436.16624.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi y'all~ Just some basic clarifications. Sorry if they seem like picking nits, but if you're seriously proposing changes/clarifications, everybody should be clear. Andrew wrote: >I have listed the most used set names and >suggest that what ever their TECHNICAL definitions are right now they be >changed to the following, for the sake of clarity, consistancy, and >brevity when explaining moves. > >Blurry, even if as one contends this really isn't a set name, >nevertheless have it mean: A clipper set in-out dex followed by an >element from the opp leg or crossbody. You obviously mean a clip > OP in-out dex [plant]... But do you mean followed by an element from either the OP leg or the opposite-of-set-side x-body? >Stepping: A clipper set in-out dex followed by an element from the same >leg or crossbody. Here again you mean a clip > OP in-out dex [plant]... right? ...followed by an element from the SAME leg or the set-side x-body, right? If so, that seems to recapitulate Derric's proposal (yes, DS?), which makes a lot of sense to me. >Atomic: A toe set out-in dex followed (after the dex leg has planted) >by an element from the opp leg or crossbody. You mean a toe set OP out-in dex [plant]... Doesn't 'atomic' currently require the next component to be an OP in-out dex (e.g. atomic drifter, torque, etc.?) ? Just asking. >Tapping: A toe set out-in dex followed (after the dex leg has planted) >by an element from the same leg or crossbody. I, too, would appreciate some clarifying nomenclature on such "toe-tapping" moves. So again you mean: toe set OP out-in dex [plant]... Followed by a same leg component, sounds good...but *which* x-body? Wouldn't that include "atomic drifter", etc, which starts as above and ends up x-body? >and with Eli monster's permision > >Nuclear(sp): A clipper set opp out-in dex followed by an element from >the opp leg or crossbody. No, you mean clip > SAME out-in dex [plant]... And doesn't 'nuclear' currently require the next component to be an OP in-out dex? Eli? >Nucleus(sp): A clipper set opp out-in dex followed by an element from >the same leg or crossbody. I see where you're going, and appreciate you taking an initial stab at "cleaning up" the terminology a bit. God knows it needs it, in numerous ways. There clearly needs to be a greater consensus about many of these terms. Got one for paradox? =) peace aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 29 04:34:44 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id EAA06277 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:34:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani) Message-Id: <199901290342.WAA61052@dept.english.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Uh.. No! Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:42:24 -0500 (EST) Cc: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org In-Reply-To: <01BE4ADD.E512E080.ewulff@jsishipping.com> from "Eric Wulff" at Jan 28, 99 04:47:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In regards to changing all set names and descriptions in footbag for no good reason, Eric "The Iron-A-man" Wulff so eloquently replied: > > What?! I'm tryin not to loose it here.... Perhaps this is a joke... > If not, > I'll simply say that I strongly disagree. If it is a joke... um.. hah?? > > What it AIN'T... I could not have said it better myself. linuS From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 29 08:22:12 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id IAA08046 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:22:12 GMT Resent-From: owner-freestyle X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from homer.tomahawktech.com ([206.191.48.232]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA32037 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:51:36 -0800 Received: from drnt (Administrators@localhost) by homer.tomahawktech.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA00047 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:52:43 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:52:42 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199901290752.CAA00047@homer.tomahawktech.com> From: "Dave Reid" To: Subject: [freestyle] Re: Advance notice... Footbag on Jenny Jones show, to air 1/29/99 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:55:10 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be4b5c$b18dd790$0a01010a@drnt.home.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by homer.tomahawktech.com id CAA00047 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Scott D. wrote: > Watch: > Jenny Jones Show > Friday, January 29, 1999 > Check your local listing for time and channel. I was trying to find out what time the show was, and I found THIS on the Jenny Jones site: ----- Fri Jan 29 "Jenny=92s 4th Annual Totally Useless Human Talent!" See a show packed with eye bulging, stomach turning, bizarre entertainmen= t including a man who hammers a large nail into his nose and a human jump rope! Musical guests Rhinocerotic perform! ----- And Scott claimed that he didn't do any stomach turning moves! :) The site is: http://jennyjones.warnerbros.com There is also a schedule of program times on the site at: http://jennyjones.warnerbros.com/cmp/showstuf1.htm Cheers, Dave From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 29 17:33:39 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA18357 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:33:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from [207.208.34.68] (d68.nhe2.interaccess.com [207.208.34.68]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id GAA26572; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:49:54 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990121005729.26492.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:49:28 -0500 To: "Allan Haggett" , freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org From: "Enlightener (Scott Davidson)" Subject: Re: [freestyle] addless Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Allan and Freestylers! >Normally, a state of predetermined moves fills my concious >mind, each visual of each move sliding by milliseconds before they are >expressed physically; each one spontaneously planned. This eve however >freestyle as we have come to know it was far off in my minds eye. >I have no idea how long I kicked for without dropping. Could've been >30 times, 300... I lost track of time completely. Serene is the best >word that I can think of right now to describe it. Drops didn't >frustrate the state >the (albeit sub-concious) mind set of non-commital action >produced a meditative effect hence unknown to this individual. Have >any of you out there ever experienced anything of the kind? Please >respond. Almost every day at work, I play footbag to improve my game, but it has a strange side effect. It is soothing. I am able, for a full 45 minutes to an hour, to enter a zone that enables me switch from the immersion of my work into the immersion of my sport. It truly is a meditation. I notice that I am more relaxed and able to focus after I shred, when I return to work. Footbag forces a certain level of concentration, and that is good for the inner-self. It certainly keeps me from getting too hung up in my work, it adds a breath of levity to my day, and it keeps me calm in a world that (I am convinced) is trying to pull me in a thousand different directions, simultaneously. Shred on, brothers and sisters! See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 29 17:33:41 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA18548 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:33:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f162.hotmail.com [207.82.251.48]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA02352 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:32:35 -0800 Received: (qmail 18317 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jan 1999 13:32:05 -0000 Message-ID: <19990129133205.18316.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.250.75.226 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:32:04 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.250.75.226] From: "Otso Konttinen" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Stores in San Diego? Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:32:04 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi! I'm going to Mission Beach, San Diego in 3-13 of February, and I would like to know if there is any footbag stores around? And maybe I could come some of the 10 days to the beach to shred too.. Ode ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 29 17:33:48 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA19186 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:33:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Message-ID: <19990129170101.2895.rocketmail@send204.yahoomail.com> Received: from [209.108.197.65] by send204.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:01:01 PST Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:01:01 -0800 (PST) From: cory current Subject: Re: [freestyle] A new miraje? To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org howdy true believers. This is my first post, so bear with me. > Almost. Set from left toe performe a front to back swirl with the left > leg then bail to right foot in-out leg over, but no spinning, all the > dexes are done on the right side. > clear up some confusion for me. I understand that you set with left toe, and swirl with left leg. Now is this a cross body swirl?? If it is x-body, seems like a lot of work, like a pixie drifter motion without the dex. Now for some other ideas. I like where this discussion is going. Imagine this: left toe set, right foot x-body swirl, bail to a left osis. Now imagine it symposium. like a toe set symposium twirl. Coooooool! just my 2 cents worth. == kick. Cory Current 1999 Chicago World's Director _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 29 20:34:44 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA16730 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:34:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f263.hotmail.com [207.82.251.154]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA09063 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:48:01 -0800 Received: (qmail 22376 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jan 1999 19:47:30 -0000 Message-ID: <19990129194730.22375.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 129.187.254.49 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:47:29 PST X-Originating-IP: [129.187.254.49] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] getting technical Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:47:29 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all, Aaron de Glanville wrote: >>Blurry, ... A clipper set in-out dex followed by an >>element from the opp leg or crossbody. >You obviously mean a clip > OP in-out dex [plant]... >But do you mean followed by an element from either the OP leg or the >opposite-of-set-side x-body? >>Stepping: A clipper set in-out dex followed by an element from the >>same leg or crossbody. >Here again you mean a clip > OP in-out dex [plant]... right? >...followed by an element from the SAME leg or the set-side x-body, >right? Right both times, I should have been more careful. If I get some more feed back I„ll edit and repost my sugestions. >If so, that seems to recapitulate Derric's proposal (yes, DS?), which >makes a lot of sense to me. Perhaps here I should state what I should have put in the first post. As far as I know I am not proposing any huge changes, which I wouldn„t do, you`re all are too resistant to change for that. All that I wanted to do was slightly change the definitions of some sets to 1, make them consistant and intuative 2, and because no one can agree on what they all mean in the first place, to give them all concrete, simple meanings. If few enough of the older players know and can agree on all the deffenitions how are the new players who are trying to explain a move they„ve been hiting going to keep it all strait? If anyone claims to be an expert on this, please state breifly the definitions of these sets as they now stand, so we can see how much of a ripple this would cause. >I see where you're going, and appreciate you taking an initial stab >at "cleaning up" the terminology a bit. God knows it needs it, in >numerous ways. There clearly needs to be a greater consensus about >many of these terms. Amen >Got one for paradox? =) I„m not that crazy. -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 29 20:34:40 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA16724 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:34:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (grunt.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.17]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08984 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:45:02 -0800 Received: from abc (jlw3368@abc.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.3]) by mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mailhub+tar) with ESMTP id NAA02980 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:44:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost by abc (8.8.8+Sun/1.34) id NAA22037; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:44:57 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:44:57 -0600 (CST) From: James Lee Widman X-Sender: jlw3368@abc.ksu.ksu.edu Reply-To: James Lee Widman To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] somekindofaLegbeater? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello, hello fellow shredders. New on the scene, here. I must say 'tis good to hear such beautiful language of the freestyle world. I'm in Manhattan, Kansas- Yes, believe it or not, there are a few of our kind `round here. If there is anyone in the area, (Topeka, Lawrence, K.C.) then we must congregate. Sarting to get a little tired of kickin' solo. Question: Correct me if I'm wrong, a leg beater is a reverse miraging butterfly? So I've been hitting this, except without the plant after the mirage. so...toe > op out > (no plant while) op out > op clip. Its really just one, swift motion. Along the same idea, try a paradox drifter with an out-in motion. so...clip > same out > same clip. It feels goooood! Any ideas? -james Hey Enlightener, I must agree. It is very meditative. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 29 21:30:48 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA26932 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:30:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f188.hotmail.com [207.82.251.77]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA09492 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:07:04 -0800 Received: (qmail 10259 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jan 1999 20:06:33 -0000 Message-ID: <19990129200633.10258.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.190.1 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:06:33 PST X-Originating-IP: [152.163.190.1] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Useless Human Talent Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:06:33 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I took a long lunch to watch the Jenny Jones show and I have to say, contrary to Scott's belief, that he did quite well. Perhaps if it was Worlds you might say it was so so, but for a nationally televised tv show (I think that phrase is redundant), seen by millions of bored housewives, it was superb. Ripwalk, spinning butterfly, spinning osis (not done consecutively but still well done), and more. All this to huge applause. For those who haven't or won't see the show, it consists of several "freaks" (not you Scott) who display their "useless talents." Just where footbag belongs, between a guy who drinks a glass of chocolate milk upside down, and a guy who hammers nails into his face. For those who don't know this yet, any publicity is good publicity. DK ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 29 23:52:56 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA09441 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:52:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA11465 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:26:32 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA07241 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:26:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx43-31.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.159) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma007112; Fri Jan 29 15:25:18 1999 Message-ID: <36B22BA0.2F9E@utdallas.edu> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:44:00 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: sets and moves - was Re: [freestyle] getting technical References: <19990129194730.22375.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey. Here is my vision of freestyle. Each move - or trick - has two parts. One is while the bag is on the way up. This is what I think of as a set. The other part of the trick is done while the bag is on the way down. This part, I think of as the actual move. There are alot of different "moves" that can be done while the bag is on the way down - double over down, butterfly, torque, double legover, whatever. If you throw a set of some kind in front of any of these moves, you get a unique trick. And, any set can be followed by any move (granted, some will be harder than others). Because I am trying to break all freestyle tricks down into two easier to identify parts, I like the idea of each set getting its own name. That way, you can say any trick is a something set something. Like a blur is a "blurry set mirage". Or a stepping mirage is a "stepping set mirage". I'm not trying to offend anyone. I have the utmost respect for all of the people who have inspired me so much in this sport. But, everyone has to admit that the naming of moves is a bit wacky as it stands. I know most of the names of moves. If someone says ripwalk, legbeater, or flux, I know what they mean. But, people who have never seen any of these moves won't have a clue. Now, if you say "blurry set butterfly", "atomic set butterfly", or "atomic set osis", people will understand. That is if each of these sets has a definite meaning. The way things are now, if I say blurry set butterfly, people will start freaking out because blury means paradox, or there isn't a real blurry set, or ripwalk is a better sounding name, or whatever. Why can't we get some kind of consistency? What is the harm in that? I don't care if you don't like my way of naming or Andrew's or Aaron's, but pick some way that is consistent. One other thing.... I don't think any name should revolve around whether or not a move is paradox. For adds, sure, but for naming, no. Why limit a set to only paradox moves when paradox is so screwy in itself? Now if the set contains a paradox, that is another thing.... Give me feedback! Hope to see everyone in Vegas... -Derric Now what prompted me to go on and on: > > Perhaps here I should state what I should have put in the first post. As > far as I know I am not proposing any huge changes, which I wouldn*t do, > you`re all are too resistant to change for that. All that I wanted to do > was slightly change the definitions of some sets to 1, make them > consistant and intuative 2, and because no one can agree on what they > all mean in the first place, to give them all concrete, simple meanings. > If few enough of the older players know and can agree on all the > deffenitions how are the new players who are trying to explain a move > they*ve been hiting going to keep it all strait? If anyone claims to be > an expert on this, please state breifly the definitions of these sets as > they now stand, so we can see how much of a ripple this would cause. > > >I see where you're going, and appreciate you taking an initial stab > >at "cleaning up" the terminology a bit. God knows it needs it, in > >numerous ways. There clearly needs to be a greater consensus about > >many of these terms. > > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 29 23:52:54 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA09435 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:52:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10849 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:05:18 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA04004; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:03:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx43-31.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.159) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma003793; Fri Jan 29 15:02:58 1999 Message-ID: <36B2265F.3CF2@utdallas.edu> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:21:35 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Lee Widman CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] somekindofaLegbeater? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org James Lee Widman wrote: > > Question: Correct me if I'm wrong, a leg beater is a reverse miraging > butterfly? So I've been hitting this, except without the plant after the > mirage. so...toe > op out > (no plant while) op out > op clip. Its really > just one, swift motion. Hey James. Good to see you on the list. About that legbeater... I think I know what you are talking about. You do a right toe set. Then, your left leg goes more over than around the bag in an OUT dex. Then, you just kind of turn a bit to end up scooping the bag under your right leg and onto your left foot clipper. Is this what you are alking about? If so, I don't think people would give you a legbeater out of it. It is more like a reverse miraging refraction or something. Kinda like doing a pixie butterfly without planting after the pixe. Technically, what you are doing is a legbeater, but without the plant. The main purpose for the plant is to accentuate the dexes. If you do it with the plant, you'll see what I mean. The dexes are more clear and the move feels entirely different. What you are doing is great - try a pixe set to it, or a blurry set... I guess what I'm rambling about is that with that style of legbeater (no plant), you can do the entire move while the bag is on the way down. So, do some bitchin set before the bag stops going up. That is all these moves are - a set followed by a move. Legbeater with a plant involves an atomic set (when the bag's going up) followed by a butterfly (when the bag's going down). If you can do the whole legbeater while the bag is going down, then you can start doing some really cool stuff. > Along the same idea, try a paradox drifter with an > out-in motion. so...clip > same out > same clip. It feels goooood! > Do you remember Eric Burgess? He was hitting this pdx rev drifter before he stopped kicking. It is like a nuclear set bail to same clipper. Sweet move. Are you going to Las Vegas or Southern Regionals? You need to show me the way on both of these moves. Hope to see you soon. -Derric Dallas Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 29 23:53:22 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA09462 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:53:22 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Damon Mathews Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA12811 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:25:06 -0800 Received: from Damonmath@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id OKUYa06037 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:22:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:22:03 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] somekindofaLegbeater? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org -james wote: >Question: Correct me if I'm wrong, a leg beater is a reverse miraging >butterfly? So I've been hitting this, except without the plant after the >mirage. so...toe > op out > (no plant while) op out > op clip. Its really >just one, swift motion. They trick your refering to is a reverse miraging refraction. Try it paradox. >Along the same idea, try a paradox drifter with an >out-in motion. so...clip > same out > same clip. It feels goooood! Thats great, Open your hips after the first dex and fall into a butterfly. BAM! PARADOX LEGBEATER or Try the trick blurry(stepping paradox for IRON MAN). Blam BLURRY LEGBEATER. Welcome freestyler, Shred on! Damon "lactic acid burn" Mathews From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 29 23:54:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA09475 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:54:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Damon Mathews Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13297 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:42:53 -0800 Received: from Damonmath@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 1SJHa03538 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:39:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3124beef.36b23892@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:39:14 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Paradox? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Please let me start by saying that this definition reflects the beliefs of three hard core shredders from Charlotte NC. Paradox- The set has to be a clipper, followed by the same [in/out] or [out/in](not including legover dexs. ie. butterflys, and legovers) dexterity with the bag ending on the opposite foot or the same foot in the cross-body postion only. Clear enough? Damon From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Fri Jan 29 23:55:03 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA09494 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:55:03 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA164 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:25:54 -0800 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:26:18 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE4B9B.B7D8B7C0.ewulff@jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] Now that's funny... Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:26:17 -0800 Organization: JSI Shipping X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 23 TEXT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi y'll, Aaron wrote... >Got one for paradox? =) To which Andrew wrote... I?m not that crazy. - -Andrew I say.. Now that's funny... Seriously, no sarcasm on this one... That's @#%&in! funny dude.... All this @#%&! is CRAZY!!!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! More later... I think I can stomach it this time... heh heh Just gotta find the time... Eric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 30 05:33:11 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA17678 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:33:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18761; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:37:59 -0800 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 3VJQa07792; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:36:52 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:36:52 EST To: grandincredible@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Useless Human Talent Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org that was superb man I agree.. he got more applause and presented himself ten times better than all of those half wit/lame acts... Jenny really liked it herself... It was a good idea to present the host with a gift too... I think you really left a good impression of footbag with national television viewers... now that you have these media hook ups.. maybe we'll see some news cameras at worlds this summer...:) just a thought (hope). later shred heads ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 30 07:34:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA28448 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 07:34:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Problems1@aol.com Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19486 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:36:37 -0800 Received: from Problems1@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HOJKa26231; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:35:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <515e2f8.36b29a19@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:35:21 EST To: ShReDStEiN@aol.com, grandincredible@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Useless Human Talent Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I missed that jenny show, is anyone gonna upload the footbag segment to any web pages? and what gift did he present jenny with? Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 30 18:50:43 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA12233 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:50:43 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f195.hotmail.com [207.82.251.84]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA24635 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:16:51 -0800 Received: (qmail 11996 invoked by uid 0); 30 Jan 1999 18:16:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19990130181620.11995.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.25.108.130 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:16:19 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.25.108.130] From: "James Holt" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Useless Human Talent Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:16:19 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org and what gift did he present jenny with? > >Matt he gave her a footbag I dont know the exact kind I didnt get to see it very good. this Useless Human Talent stuff kinda makes me alittle mad footbag isnt useless its great for the body and mind its like saying yoga or meditation is useless. I think they should have named the show: Useless Human Talent execpt for footbag well later every1 James ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 30 20:58:04 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA17554 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:58:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send106.yahoomail.com (send106.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.43]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA25969 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:12:58 -0800 Message-ID: <19990130201431.25746.rocketmail@send106.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.191.57] by send106.yahoomail.com; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:14:31 PST Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:14:31 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] somekindofaLegbeater? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org James, Hey, bro good to see you on the list. I didn't know people from Kansas knew how to use computers. Just kidding. It seems obvious to me that these crazy people are misinterpreting you- "atomic refraction"?, I think not. Sounds to me like a reverse-miraging symposium butterfly, aka. symposium legbeater. Now if you want my opinion, no one will give you credit of 5 adds for it. If you want a truly symp legbeater, do the first dex symposium- Ben Job taught me this set. You can do so much with this: symp atomsmasher, symp tapping symp whirl, symp tapping symp mirage (do it big), symp flux (hey, I hadn't thought of this one before), etc. etc. etc. You mentioned "pdox reverse drifter"- it's called a 'Royale'. Definitely a smoothie. If you can do that you should be able to do pdox legbeater. ... and blurry legbeater- easier said than done.(period) Talk to you soon, Eli Boulder, CO _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 30 21:39:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA03330 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:39:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from postoffice2.direcpc.com (mail.direcpc.com [198.77.116.30]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26725 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:02:33 -0800 Received: from hh1114112.direcpc.com ([206.71.114.112]) by postoffice2.direcpc.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-45425U50000L50000S0) with SMTP id AAA2717 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:03:03 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990130155559.0092ac20@mail.direcpc.com> X-Sender: mavery@mail.direcpc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:04:45 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Matt Avery Subject: [freestyle] Move name Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fellow Shredders! Bout time I wake from the dead on this mailing list. After making love to my brand new bag, I felt obligated to pay you all a visit. I forgot what you all were calling a fairy miraging butterfly...something like buba? Oh well, thats not what Im hear about. Im guessing in this bubba (or whatever the name is) you need to plant the foot after both of the first dexs--correct? I sealed something like that today, except the 2nd dex isnt planted. Its like a toe set dada curve, but the set is also a pixi. any one of you shred heads know what Im talking about? The notation is something like this: Toe> same in dex>op in dex> op out dex (no plant while)> op clip Take the initiative to say HEY MATT! sherd hard, Matt Avery da East Coast bomber From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 30 21:55:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id VAA03860 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:55:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send102.yahoomail.com (send102.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.90]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA26902 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:12:01 -0800 Message-ID: <19990130211427.13811.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.192.44] by send102.yahoomail.com; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:14:27 PST Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:14:27 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] getting technical To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all you all, ---Aaron de Glanville wrote: > And doesn't 'nuclear' currently require the next component to be an OP > in-out dex? Eli? Awww, man, why'd you have to bring me into this? I've been avoiding this discussion for a reason (unspecified). I think Andrew has good intention, and I think Aaron's corrections were pretty accurate... maybe. > Doesn't 'atomic' currently require the next component to be an OP in-out > dex (e.g. atomic drifter, torque, etc.?) ? Just asking. I don't know. I coined the name "atomic" (derived from atom smasher) to apply to moves similar to atom smasher (yes, like atomic drifter, torque, etc.), but I'm not so sure its def should be so constricted. Perhaps this, atomic= toe> opp rev mirage> followed by opp dex any direction. This might be good for clarifications- atomic butterfly will always be legbeater, etc. Oh, and I suppose flux would be atomic osis, but I don't know how to change the definition to encapsule this, since there is no second dex. I just meant for atomic to be applied to a few select moves, with no intention to label and define the set to have a consistant definition. Hey, this must be where Wulffy is coming from. I grew into the sport believing "blurry" to literally mean "clipper set mirage followed by a pdox dex with the other leg. So maybe we were taught wrong. > I, too, would appreciate some clarifying nomenclature on such "toe-tapping" > moves. Here's my take, it's a reverse miraging set with a plant afterwards followed by a dexterity with the same leg- tapping mirage, tapping butterfly (tapdown), etc. But than again there is so much that goes against my defintions: my bro, Brad K, hits tapping twirl (a sick move)- he taps then twirls with his opposite leg, so by my defs that would be an atomic twirl. Atomic twirl would actually be if you twirled with the same leg that you rev mirage with; get me? Then there are moves that have that set but no second dex: flux, atomic sole stall, and more. So maybe these sets are too technical for simple definitions. I seriously think stepping and blurry sets can be simply and cosistantly defined. Sorry for the disagreement, Eric, but there is no case I can think of where a blur set is not a stepping paradox set- blurry drifter, blurry torque, blurry whirl, blurry eggbeater (bedwetter), blurry dblegover (fog), blurry barrage, etc. I have always heard "blurry --" moves to be implied paradox. For example, one does not need to mention paradox when referring to the above listed moves. I know you said the "blurry" in these names are just that "names", but it sounds to me like it is so consistant that blurry should be the name for "stepping followed by pdox dex". I for one agree with Andrew's defintions (after Aaron's corrections). I don't know or care if it should become official. Just tellin ya'll what I be thinkin about all this headache-inducing nonsense. > > And doesn't 'nuclear' currently require the next component to be an OP > in-out dex? Eli? > >Nucleus(sp): A clipper set (same) out-in dex followed by an element from > >the same leg or crossbody. The nuclear set is identical to atomic, but paradox. NUCLEUS?!! Never heard of this being the name for clipper set tap. I don't like it. thanks for reading THE END... or is it? Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 30 22:30:02 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA13434 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:30:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f84.hotmail.com [207.82.250.190]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA27513 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:53:20 -0800 Received: (qmail 4573 invoked by uid 0); 30 Jan 1999 21:52:49 -0000 Message-ID: <19990130215249.4572.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:52:49 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: ezshredz@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] somekindofaLegbeater? Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:52:49 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all! Eli wrote: >If you want a truly symp legbeater, do the first dex symposium- Ben >Job taught me this set. You can do so much with this: symp >atomsmasher I always had a problem classifying symposium moves where there are two dexes. I have been hitting symposium atom smasher for a few weeks now, but i do it with the second dex symposium. I do an atomic set without a plant, then do a symposium mirage. The second part feels very much like a rushed PS mirage. Ken "ceiling fan" Somolinos nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sat Jan 30 22:30:31 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA13447 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:30:31 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f62.hotmail.com [207.82.251.196]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA27621 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:59:28 -0800 Received: (qmail 18013 invoked by uid 0); 30 Jan 1999 21:58:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19990130215857.18012.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:58:57 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: ezshredz@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] getting technical Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:58:57 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone. Eli ended his e-mail about sets with: >THE END... or is it? > >Eli You honestly can't believe that, no matter how much anyone wants it. CF nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Jan 31 22:58:24 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id WAA28496 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:58:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f144.hotmail.com [207.82.251.23]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA01554 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:06:40 -0800 Received: (qmail 20328 invoked by uid 0); 31 Jan 1999 04:19:27 -0000 Message-ID: <19990131041927.20327.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:19:27 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: Damonmath@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox? Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:19:27 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Some NC kickers tried to define paradox in the following manner: > >Paradox- The set has to be a clipper, followed by the same [in/out] or >[out/in](not including legover dexs. ie. butterflys, and legovers) dexterity >with the bag ending on the opposite foot or the same foot in the cross-body >postion only. > I disagree. what about paradox blur and paradox blizzard? Ceiling Fan (ken somolinos) nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Jan 31 23:25:28 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA05379 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:25:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Jmw480@aol.com Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00725 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:32:37 -0800 Received: from Jmw480@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id KCWZa07798; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:54:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:54:18 EST To: scalf@utdallas.edu, jlw3368@ksu.edu Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] somekindofaLegbeater? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello everyone. I'm pretty new to the footbag scene and have only been playing for about 6 months. the reason I am writing is because I have been hitting a new move that I have never seen before and was wondering what it is called. The move that I have been hitting starts with a right toe set then I do a reverse mirage without ever planting the right foot. Anyone who knows what this is please respond. Thanks! jeff From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Jan 31 23:43:39 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA14615 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:43:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01635 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:15:06 -0800 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id SAA17810; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:23:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:23:09 -0500 (EST) From: Deliciously Saucy Josh Penney To: Jmw480@aol.com cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] somekindofaLegbeater? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Symposium reverse mirage. Congrats. JP On Sun, 31 Jan 1999 Jmw480@aol.com wrote: > Hello everyone. I'm pretty new to the footbag scene and have only been > playing for about 6 months. the reason I am writing is because I have been > hitting a new move that I have never seen before and was wondering what it is > called. The move that I have been hitting starts with a right toe set then I > do a reverse mirage without ever planting the right foot. Anyone who knows > what this is please respond. Thanks! > > > jeff > From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Sun Jan 31 23:53:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA15336 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:53:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from iuakk.fi (qmailr@lux2.iuakk.fi [194.89.13.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA02110 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:24:28 -0800 Received: (qmail 31868 invoked from network); 31 Jan 1999 23:26:29 -0000 Received: from x2-56k.ppp.36.iuakk.fi (HELO kone1) (194.89.12.102) by lux2.iuakk.fi with SMTP; 31 Jan 1999 23:26:29 -0000 Message-ID: <000a01be4d70$5e07d4c0$010000c4@kone1> From: "Juha Linnanen" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [freestyle] somekindofaLegbeater? Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:21:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >the reason I am writing is because I have been >hitting a new move that I have never seen before and was wondering >what it is called. The move that I have been hitting starts with a right >toe set then I do a reverse mirage without ever planting the right foot. >Anyone who knows what this is please respond. Thanks! Sounds like 'Symposium Reverse Mirage'. I don't know if it does have some nickname or something. - Juha L.