From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 00:04:06 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA19854 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:04:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.1.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA02220 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:28:32 -0800 Received: from jeremiah by mail.socket.net ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:01:45 -600 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:11:55 -0600 X-Priority: 3 From: Jeremiah Riely Reply-To: jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu X-Mailer: Mail Warrior 2 To: freestyle@footbag.org CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer-Version: v2.03a Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Paradox- The set has to be a clipper, followed by the same [in/out] or >[out/in](not including legover dexs. ie. butterflys, and legovers) dexterity >with the bag ending on the opposite foot or the same foot in the cross-body >postion only. > >Clear enough? Under that definition, frontside paradox blur would get no paradox add. And I don't think that anyone thinks this move is not paradox. And what about paradox whirl, that ends on opposite foot cross-body, but that is left out in the definition. And that definition wouldn't work at all with paradox twirls. Later From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 00:04:05 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA19792 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:04:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.1.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA02217 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:28:29 -0800 Received: from jeremiah by mail.socket.net ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:26:59 -600 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:37:09 -0600 X-Priority: 3 From: Jeremiah Riely Reply-To: jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu X-Mailer: Mail Warrior 2 To: freestyle@footbag.org CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] getting technical MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer-Version: v2.03a Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >they*ve been hiting going to keep it all strait? If anyone claims to be >an expert on this, please state breifly the definitions of these sets as >they now stand, so we can see how much of a ripple this would cause. Ok, I'll give it a shot. Blurry: a clipper set mirage followed by a paradox move. Blurry indicates paradox, so it would be redundant to say blurry paradox whirl, it is just blurry whirl, or clipper set miraging paradox whilr. clip > op in [dex] > paradox move Stepping: clipper set mirage to a plant to anything else. clip > op in [dex] > whatever Tapping: I wasn't aware that this is a set. I thought it was just one trick, the tapp. toe to rev mirage (plant) to same leg mirage to op toe. tap: toe > op out [dex] > same in [dex] > op toe [del] Bubba set: clipper set to op leg rev. mirage to anything clip > op out [dex] > whatever Gyrating: clipper set to a back spin to a same leg dex to anything. clip > (back) spin > same in/out [dex] > whatever Bock set: clipper set paradox rev. mirage to an inspin (I think) clip > same out [dex] > (in) spin > whatever Leaning Gyro: clipper set mirage to a back spin (or something like that, anyone else know???) clip > op in [dex] > (back) spin > whatever pixie: toe set to same in dex to anything toe > same in [dex] > whatever fairy: toe set to same out dex to anything toe > same out [dex] > whatever Well, that is all I can think of right now, it any of this is wrong please respond. I'm not sure about atomic, nuclear, tapping, bock set, and leaning gyro. later From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 00:04:06 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA19855 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:04:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.1.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA02208 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:28:23 -0800 Received: from jeremiah by mail.socket.net ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:10:33 -600 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:20:42 -0600 X-Priority: 3 From: Jeremiah Riely Reply-To: jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu X-Mailer: Mail Warrior 2 To: freestyle@footbag.org CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] somekindofaLegbeater? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer-Version: v2.03a Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>Question: Correct me if I'm wrong, a leg beater is a reverse miraging >>butterfly? So I've been hitting this, except without the plant after the >>mirage. so...toe > op out > (no plant while) op out > op clip. Its really >>just one, swift motion. > >They trick your refering to is a reverse miraging refraction. Try it paradox. It can't be a refraction because there is no spin, it sounds like a reverse miraging symposium butterfly, or backside symposium legbeater. But the symposium add is discounted I'd imagine, just like in a dada curve. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 00:04:05 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA19794 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:04:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.1.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA02213 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:28:26 -0800 Received: from jeremiah by mail.socket.net ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:24:37 -600 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:34:47 -0600 X-Priority: 3 From: Jeremiah Riely Reply-To: jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu X-Mailer: Mail Warrior 2 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: sets and moves - was Re: [freestyle] getting technical MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer-Version: v2.03a Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >I'm not trying to offend anyone. I have the utmost respect for all of >the people who have inspired me so much in this sport. But, everyone >has to admit that the naming of moves is a bit wacky as it stands. I >know most of the names of moves. If someone says ripwalk, legbeater, or >flux, I know what they mean. But, people who have never seen any of >these moves won't have a clue. Now, if you say "blurry set butterfly", >"atomic set butterfly", or "atomic set osis", people will understand. >That is if each of these sets has a definite meaning. To me, blurry set butterfly can't exists. Why not say clipper set miraging butterfly for ripwalk, or rev. miraging butterfly for legbeater, and rev miraging osis for flux. And if after the first part the second part could end on either side, specify which side it lands. Like pixie same side butterfly (parkwalk) and pixie butterfly. >The way things are now, if I say blurry set butterfly, people will start >freaking out because blury means paradox, or there isn't a real blurry >set, or ripwalk is a better sounding name, or whatever. Why can't we >get some kind of consistency? What is the harm in that? I don't care >if you don't like my way of naming or Andrew's or Aaron's, but pick some >way that is consistent. Everything is consistent if you name each element of the move at the most basic level. Does everyone see what I'm saying? For instance, you could say blurry whirl is a clipper set miraging paradox whirl. >One other thing.... I don't think any name should revolve around whether >or not a move is paradox. For adds, sure, but for naming, no. Why I don't understand why everyone has such a problem with blurry. It simply means clipper-set mirage to a paradox anything. That is what it means, why change it? From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 01:26:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA11479 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:26:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f189.hotmail.com [207.82.251.78]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA03117 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:29:34 -0800 Received: (qmail 22841 invoked by uid 0); 1 Feb 1999 00:28:54 -0000 Message-ID: <19990201002854.22840.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:28:54 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] sonic boom! Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:28:54 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi hi. Jeff wrote: > The move that I have been hitting starts with a right toe set then I >do a reverse mirage without ever planting the right foot. Anyone who knows >what this is please respond. Thanks! Symposium reverse mirage. A word of warning, though this move is pretty cool, don't ever do it in front of Josh Penney. Seriously though, as Eli mentioned, you can turn this into a really keen set if you skool it well. Ken "ceiling fan" somolinos nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 03:52:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA27407 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 03:52:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: NikeekiN@aol.com Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04062 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:19:10 -0800 Received: from NikeekiN@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id WVWOa20089 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:15:09 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <1060c910.36b50e2d@aol.com> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:15:09 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Pogo paradox mirage Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey i was checking out the freestyle move list and found pogo paradox mirage, and was wandering why if the second dex was o-i it would only be four instead of five adds "Note: if second mirage done out to in the move is only worth four adds." thanks nick a From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 03:52:37 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA27413 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 03:52:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from postoffice2.direcpc.com (mail.direcpc.com [198.77.116.30]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04140 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:40:19 -0800 Received: from hh1114112.direcpc.com ([206.71.114.112]) by postoffice2.direcpc.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-45425U50000L50000S0) with SMTP id AAA16970 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:40:49 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990131214106.0092f9d0@mail.direcpc.com> X-Sender: mavery@mail.direcpc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:42:29 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Matt Avery Subject: [freestyle] Im guessing theres no move? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What up guys? There sure is a lot of debate going on about move elements, legbeaters, mirages....the works. So you you just dont want to answer my question on this move or you dont know what you are talking about? SOMEONE OUT THERE....Lets hear a new move name...and if there isnt one I could brainstorm a couple good ones. toe> same in> op in>op out (no plant while)> op clip I dont think the no plant gets another add, clearly because its not harder to shred it without the plant. I just put it in for ya to see what Im talking about here: Not yoda, but a variation of it. Is there a name out there? Matt A PS- my cat was the only witness 30 minutes ago to my first 5 add combo. The "Yoda"move I was talking about to a pdox da da curve. hell. and yes. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 05:04:14 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA20958 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 05:04:14 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f79.hotmail.com [207.82.250.185]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA05206 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:34:52 -0800 Received: (qmail 466 invoked by uid 0); 1 Feb 1999 04:34:16 -0000 Message-ID: <19990201043416.464.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:34:15 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: NikeekiN@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pogo paradox mirage Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:34:15 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hola! Nick wrote: >i was checking out the freestyle move list and found pogo paradox mirage, and >was wandering why if the second dex was o-i it would only be four instead of >five adds >"Note: if second mirage done out to in the move is only worth four adds." That would be because an out in dex makes it a shooting set. This is easier than the afore mentioned move, because the second dex is done with the help of the initial momentum. Look on the 96 shred video in the hotel lobby, where Tuan Vu is wearing Yellow shorts to see a shooting butterfly. Ken CF somolinos nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 06:50:34 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA20291 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:50:34 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Aaron de Glanville Received: from smtp2.mindspring.com (smtp2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.32]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA05400 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:59:21 -0800 Received: from aaron (user-38ld6di.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.153.178]) by smtp2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA28659 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:59:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990131205454.006e7818@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:54:54 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox? In-Reply-To: <19990131041927.20327.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wasup y'all~ Ken wrote: >Some NC kickers tried to define paradox in the following manner: >> >>Paradox- The set has to be a clipper, followed by the same [in/out] or >>[out/in](not including legover dexs. ie. butterflys, and legovers) >dexterity >>with the bag ending on the opposite foot or the same foot in the >cross-body >>postion only. >> > >I disagree. what about paradox blur and paradox blizzard? Jeremiah wrote: >Under that definition, frontside paradox blur would get no paradox add. And I >don't think that anyone thinks this move is not paradox. > >And what about paradox whirl, that ends on opposite foot cross-body, but >that is left out in the definition. > >And that definition wouldn't work at all with paradox twirls. ...and then: >I don't understand why everyone has such a problem with blurry. It simply >means clipper-set mirage to a paradox anything. That is what it means, >why change it? Because of the lack of consensus over what paradox means or should mean, and the apparent impossibility of coming up with a clear, consistent definition (though I seem to recall Mr. Goldberg claiming to have formulated one--would you mind taking the time to post it?). Consider, too, that the current World Freestyle champion doesn't even subscribe to the above definition of "blurry". I recognize the above definition as being in consistent use, which is a small miracle in this fluxing, paradoxical realm of freestyle terminology. But I agree with Derric: "paradox" seems so poorly defined that integrating it into a 'set' definition might not be the best idea in the long run (I personally don't believe that a stepping *anything* should be considered paradox, since the set *automatically* places the footbag on the inside of the body). People are going to endlessly bitch and moan about *any* proposed change (change is uncomfortable), but the value I see in Derric's/Andrew's redefinition of blurry is that the term becomes more concretely defined, more applicable to more tricks, and more helpful in conveying tricks to novicies. Though, again, it's nice to see a certain amount of consensus already held in this case (blurry=stepping paradox). aa (Aaron de Glanville) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 06:53:22 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA25803 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:53:22 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from m9.sprynet.com (m9.sprynet.com [165.121.1.209]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05904 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:15:42 -0800 Received: from SPRYNETSPRY337196 (dd41-245.dub.compuserve.com [199.174.173.245]) by m9.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20403 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:15:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902010615.WAA20403@m9.sprynet.com> Reply-To: From: "Jane Jones" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] Im guessing theres no move? Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:23:29 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org : What up guys? ah-hem...and gals... ;-) : toe> same in> op in>op out (no plant while)> op clip : I dont think the no plant gets another add, clearly because its not harder : to shred it without the plant. I just put it in for ya to see what Im : talking about here: Not yoda, but a variation of it. Is there a name out there? : : Matt A after the entire semantical debate on "blurry" and "stepping", I would have to call this a "smearing" butterfly. ;-) okay okay...I'm just messin' with you all, but that's how I would have to think of it if I was trying to pull it. man, I can't keep up with you guys no matter how much I skool! you footbaggers are insane that pull such difficult tricks that my hardest moves become sets to you! gonna kick tomorrow, Jane From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 17:06:37 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA05683 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:06:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA10554 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:40:42 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-143.nccn.net [209.79.221.143]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-99.01.05-) with SMTP id HAA24868 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:41:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000901be4df8$b759dae0$8fdd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] Re:A New Miraje? Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:27:16 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I accidentaly invented a really cool move that I can't hit. But it's so cool that somebody has to hit it. toe set then do a superfast jump during that jump do a front back swirl or back front swirl(much harder) spin(gyro style) and do a pick up maybe do rake afterwards to keep the flow going from the pick up please hit this for me and for yourself and the whole footbaggin world to see. Has anyone thought of this move before or hit before? Thanks for the New Miraje? subject this list has gotten really interesting for me. Coolness LON From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 17:06:45 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA05696 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:06:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA10561 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:40:43 -0800 Received: from left (tc2-143.nccn.net [209.79.221.143]) by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-99.01.05-) with SMTP id HAA24871 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:41:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000a01be4df8$b86668e0$8fdd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] 8 yes 8 ADDS Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:50:12 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This move is totally doable. Just incredibly hard and I've never done it. But someone can learn to hit this move. I call it Scrambler. set from left clipper do a gyro spin(only a 180) do a counterclockwise duck then on its way down do a butterfly symposium twirl ADDS 1 spin 2 duck 3 butterfly 4 front back swirl 5 symposium 8 osis Somebody please try this so you can see how possible it really is. There have been a lot of really cool moves on the list recently. Flux, New Mirages, symp atom smasher, royale, symp legbeater, tapping symp mirage, atomic whirl! If you're like me you can't do these moves and haven't even tried half of them. All the SHREDDERS should HIT THESE MOVES they're such cool ones. shredonLON From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 20:41:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA08078 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:41:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12783 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:47:25 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #33464) with SMTP id <0F6H00L01O6C4C@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:47:00 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 11:47:00 -0700 (MST) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] paradox and some other stuff To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Is it possible to have a paradox around the world? It would seem to me that a clip set> same in dex> same toe delay may as well be paradox. It involves the double hip pivot (I think). The only difference between it and a pdx mirage is the catch foot, but it's relation to a pdx mirage seems similar to the relationship between Around the World and Mirage: both two adds. I've been thinking about this for a while and didn't want to ask it knowing that paradox questions are always left with a bad taste in the mouth. Still, take this move for example (one which I've been hitting for a while) clip> op in dex> op in dex> same toe delay. It's just short of a Blur in that the catch doesn't go on the other foot, it stays on the last dex foot. Any thoughts? Also, there was a post about a month ago regarding the roster for the BAP. Someone wanted to know who was in it and I never saw a response, possibly due to the wholesale deleting I did after not checking my mail for a month. I'm aware of the big names and even a few of the smaller names, but I'd still like to see a listing if anyone feels up to it. One last thing, and this is for "The Enlightener". Have you hit tapping twirl? Toe set/ reverse mirage/ twirl as usual. If so, have you named it? I know there're all sorts of variations you've made on twirls and I'm quite proud of this one. I've only hit it about a half dozen (sounds better than 6) times and have played out of it only two of those times. Let me know. Eli, if tapioca isn't taken I'd like to use it here. Thanks, BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 20:42:20 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA08099 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:42:20 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send101.yahoomail.com (send101.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.87]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA13450 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:40:31 -0800 Message-ID: <19990201193859.19959.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.184.135] by send101.yahoomail.com; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 11:38:59 PST Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:38:59 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] somekindofaLegbeater? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey, hey Ken wrote: > I always had a problem classifying symposium moves where there are two > dexes. I have been hitting symposium atom smasher for a few weeks now, > but i do it with the second dex symposium. Nice! There are two ways to do symp asmasher; that is one of them. If you combine them, you can have a 'double symp asmasher' (2 symp adds). Do the first dex w/out the plant then quickly plant the opp leg and symp mirage. Never seen it hit before. -Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 20:42:30 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA08112 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:42:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send106.yahoomail.com (send106.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.43]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA13473 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:42:25 -0800 Message-ID: <19990201194401.8316.rocketmail@send106.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.184.135] by send106.yahoomail.com; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 11:44:01 PST Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:44:01 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] getting technical To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ---KeN Somolinos wrote: > Hey everyone. > Eli ended his e-mail about sets with: > >THE END... or is it? > > You honestly can't believe that, no matter how much anyone wants it. Sho nuf. I just meant the end of my posting. EZ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 20:42:41 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id UAA08125 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:42:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA13711 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:01:30 -0800 Message-ID: <19990201200431.10861.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.184.135] by send103.yahoomail.com; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 12:04:31 PST Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:04:31 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] getting technical To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Bock set: clipper set paradox rev. mirage to an inspin (I think) > clip > same out [dex] > (in) spin > whatever Actually, that is called "Twin Spin". Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 23:20:28 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA24534 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:20:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send105.yahoomail.com (send105.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.128]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA14980 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:55:29 -0800 Message-ID: <19990201205625.18077.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.184.135] by send105.yahoomail.com; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 12:56:25 PST Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:56:25 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] re: BAP roster To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well, I believe this is BAP in its entirety. Ahren "Torch" Gehrman Eric "Iron Man" Wulff Carol "She-Blade" Wedemeyer Ryan "Regulator" Mulroney Noah "Merlyn" DuBreil Scott "Enlightener" Davidson Paul "Hu-Mungis" Munger Josh "Chiseler" Casey Steve "Kosmo" Kramer Tuan "Disco Ninja" Vu Tu "Huge" Vu Eric "Wicked" Windsor "Big Add" Chad Devlahovic Tim "Stickman" Kelly Peter "Executioner" Irish Greg "GF Smoothie" Nelson Brian "Kamikenzie" McKenzie Red "Shred" Husted Dave "Highlander" Holton Eli "Monster" Piltz Daryl "Genzu" Genz "Rippin" Rick Reese "Kung Fu" Kyle Crawford Joey Schaffer Demitri -?- Dennis "D Money" Jones Kenny "Enforcer" Shults ... in no paricular order --Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 23:20:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA24540 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:20:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15332 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:20:18 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA25523 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:20:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] paradox and some other stuff Message-Id: <000000502623000748809@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 15:20:09 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.0.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, Feb 1, 1999, 12:47:00 PM US CST KAPLAN BRADLEY M wrote: > Is it possible to have a paradox around the world? It would seem to >me that a clip set> same in dex> same toe delay may as well be paradox. >It involves the double hip pivot (I think). The only difference between Sorry I couldn't respond sooner, but the humor of the situation forced me to get out of my chair and fall to the ground, wrything in mirth. Three things: 1) I totally agree with you; I think if one gets paradox add, the other should, too; 2) It will never happen; 3) The popular reasoning seems to be that the difference in difficulty between either switching feet at the end or not switching feet at the end is the exact difference of difficulty that makes the move either deserve the extra add or not deserve the extra add (even though literally ALL the other elements of the move have already been performed). Paradox is a paradox because unlike any other move, the set matters and which side it is caught on after all other elements have been completed matters. It certainly makes freestyle exciting and wonderful, but I'm not sure I would want to run a business like that. And whoever asked about front-end paradox blur is right; because the bag should land back on original setting foot, the move isn't paradox according to the "Official Rules of Footbag Sports" written definition of paradox. So according to the definition and the above line (#3) of reasoning, a front-end paradox blur is only worth 3 adds. Can you say, "Ouch?" If any moves should qualify for TWO paradox adds, they are the 'front-end paradox blurry whatever' class of moves. ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle the still-pliable (paradox) fossil From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 23:20:23 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA24527 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:20:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA14931 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:51:29 -0800 Message-ID: <19990201205434.26120.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.184.135] by send103.yahoomail.com; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 12:54:34 PST Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:54:34 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] paradox and some other stuff To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Eli, if tapioca isn't taken I'd like to use it here. Tuff stuff, dude. Tapioca is a name for stepping mirage to tapdown (or vice versa), you know that, BIG Bad Brad. How about Tap Water, the move is just as sick/nasty as our Rocky Flats Plutonium Tap Water. Later Hosen, Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 1 23:20:38 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA24546 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:20:38 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from mail.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.1.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA16162 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:32:31 -0800 Received: from alpha-1 by mail.socket.net ; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 16:20:45 -600 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:32:02 -0600 X-Priority: 3 From: Jeremiah Riely Reply-To: jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu X-Mailer: Mail Warrior 2 To: freestyle@footbag.org CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] getting technical MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer-Version: v2.03a Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >> Bock set: clipper set paradox rev. mirage to an inspin (I think) >> clip > same out [dex] > (in) spin > whatever > >Actually, that is called "Twin Spin". > >Eli Ok, I wasn't sure. I think Red Fred told me it was a bock set. I thought that miraging in-spin was a bock set though. So what is a bock set? And does miraging inspin have a name? Thanks From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 2 00:01:45 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA01781 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:01:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Problems1@aol.com Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16882 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:23:53 -0800 Received: from Problems1@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TFKUa03210 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:16:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:16:17 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Useless Talents Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org 2 things: How is kicking a footbag any more useless than throwing a rubber-ish air filled ball through a hoop, or hitting a small fist sized ball with a stick? I think they all classify the same amount of uselessness. I would have been entertained to see Mark McGwire (sp?) sitting next to Eric the other day, had he been there and I was there to watch it, which brings me to my next point, Is Eric's big performance going to be put on any of the more popular footbag web pages? Matt From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 2 00:04:48 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA10881 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:04:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from postal.interaccess.com (postal.interaccess.com [207.208.133.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17061 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:31:28 -0800 Received: from [207.208.34.21] (d110.nhe2.interaccess.com [207.208.34.110]) by postal.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA00580 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:31:26 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:28:35 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Enlightener (Scott Davidson)" Subject: [freestyle] Madds Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! WRL - PWRL - SPWRL - BLUR - PDON - BLIZ - PMR (Interested? Read on...) The upcoming issue of Kickers Quarterly will be featuring an article about a proposal for a new freestyle system that is subtractive as opposed to additive, the way it is now. Part of that system will require players, Pro's only (intermediates will be doing ranked component), to submit the key moves of their performances based on a requirement structure. ...and we have talked about "Madds" as a "Modified Adds" system to create add values that are more in line with the realities of difficulty. This "Madds" system would require a group of top players to determine a value for each move accepted into the system (which would, eventually, be all of the 3 add + moves) to create a cannonical list. The problems are always... "Where do we keep the list", "How do we memorize all these 'new' values"... and that's what this post is all about. (BTW, the system that is being suggested by KQ goes something like this: Players are required to do a certain number of strings, and those strings have required minimum values... the judges know what to expect, and if the players don't hit what they submitted then deductions from the max score of 10 are applied... there are points also allotted to presentation items, which the judges will deduct from if the player does not complete them satisfactorily... it is more complex than that, but this is in a nutshell). The reason for this system is to create a standard of zero drops, reasonable difficulty, variety of moves and flow of presentation. I suggest, that if we create a Madd system that would help to give higher values to shunned moves like "Atom Smasher" and the like, and at the same time, reshape what a freestyle performance looks like... then we need to come up with a nomenclature that describes the strings that are "required" by the system. This being so the judges can see A) that the strings meet the minimum requirements, B) that the proper consideration is given to moves above and beyond the minimums, and C) so the players themselves can see what others are doing, and D) so it doesn't take so long to write out what the strings are. So here goes... Any move accepted into the MADD system would be given an abbreviation that is has one character per add, and is all CAPS. Some moves, because the abbreviations would duplicate each other or cause confusion will have lowercase letters inserted that don't mean anything in terms of the accepted add value of the move. i.e. for Stepping Butterfly and Symposium Butterfly the abbreviations might seem obvious... "SBTF" but then they would be the same, so for special considerations, we might give moves like those a lowercase like "SyBTF" vs. "StBTF" to help differentiate them... but I digress... Some samples from the top of my head (see if you can figure out what they mean, and their MADD values) RIPW BLUR BLIZ WRL SWRL PWRL SPWRL BLWRL GWRL SpWRL TORQ PTORQ STORQ GTORQ SpTORQ SBLWRL ATOM PMR SPMR And the list goes on, but it seems to me to solve the nomenclature issue. Also, while talking on this very list, we can use it to describe strings. Please poke holes in it. See Ya! Scott Davidson HyperTyper (sorry for the bandwidth) Enlightener From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 2 00:31:04 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA11529 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:31:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from vcn.bc.ca (vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA17548 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:05:25 -0800 Received: from localhost (marigold@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA23825; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:01:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:01:24 -0800 (PST) From: Verhoef Anne To: Problems1@aol.com cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Useless Talents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 1 Feb 1999 Problems1@aol.com wrote: > How is kicking a footbag any more useless than throwing a rubber-ish air > filled ball through a hoop, or hitting a small fist sized ball with a stick? > I think they all classify the same amount of uselessness. Well, professional basketball and baseball players get paid millions of dollars for their career choice. In theory though, those sports are just as useless as footbag. The only difference is a lot more people enjoy playing/watching mainstream sports than footbag which results in money. Adrian V. -- marigold@vcn.bc.ca From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 2 01:51:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA07846 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:51:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (hejira.hunter.cuny.edu [146.95.128.97]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18176 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:05:51 -0800 Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id UAA03757; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:14:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:14:01 -0500 (EST) From: Deliciously Saucy Josh Penney To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Useless Talents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > How is kicking a footbag any more useless than throwing a rubber-ish air > > filled ball through a hoop, or hitting a small fist sized ball with a stick? > > I think they all classify the same amount of uselessness. > > Well, professional basketball and baseball players get paid millions of > dollars for their career choice. In theory though, those sports are just > as useless as footbag. The only difference is a lot more people enjoy > playing/watching mainstream sports than footbag which results in money. A basketball game lasts 48 minutes. Free throws =1 point regular shots, goaltending= 2 points really far shots = 3 points. To save time I'll just say all these sports have a definite end- two teams in direct competition, with the major goal being points, scored by getting the ball in a hole, goal, or out of the park - I'll admit baseball is weird. The game where you try to get rid of the ball- it's like tag, really. This is what many peoiple like about net- there is an end, and a loser and a winner. You can play for three hours and say, okay, you win, nice game, let's go have a beer. Freestyle is great, and I don't knock it, but when do you stop? Who wins? are there teams? by what criteria do you pick members? It's like playing, when you were a child- no real point in it except to have fun. and what is there to sell? uniforms? all we wear are shorts, socks, and one of two kinds of shoes (sorry Red)- sometimes a Tee. Ooh, I've just gotta get those Frank Gutowski/ Peter Irish '95 peach umbros shorts with the purple trim~! Are the new Air Manu wrist guards on the shelves yet? Where did I put my credit card? I'm just kidding, I know about endorsements and banners and wham-o tattoos. Another major reason that other sports have done so well comparitively is, since there is a definite winner, you can *make a bet* and maybe *make some money*. Sure, you could theoretically bet on anything, but how much betting is there on ice skating and gymnastics? More than I imagine? probably.. but nowhere near as much as there is in the horses, and how many of you put ten in on the superbowl this year? Every bar I went to in the last six months had a pool goin- that's a lot of bars, too. Happy guzzling; JP c: dk knows all!! From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 2 01:51:42 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA07856 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:51:42 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f272.hotmail.com [207.82.251.163]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA18209 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:09:20 -0800 Received: (qmail 28133 invoked by uid 0); 2 Feb 1999 01:08:46 -0000 Message-ID: <19990202010846.28132.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 17:08:45 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: dfogle@mlerf.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] paradox and some other stuff Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 17:08:45 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Stylers Derric wrote: > >Paradox is a paradox because unlike any other move, the set matters and which >side it is caught on after all other elements have been completed matters. Don't forget bubba. ken "Ceiling Fan" somolinos nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 2 07:06:42 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA15802 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:06:42 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f65.hotmail.com [207.82.251.205]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA19411 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:13:41 -0800 Received: (qmail 886 invoked by uid 0); 2 Feb 1999 02:13:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19990202021308.885.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.25.108.130 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 18:13:07 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.25.108.130] From: "James Holt" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] re: BAP roster Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 18:13:07 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I might be really wrong but I thought the nick names were: these two were the only I noticed you are probably right but when did they change? > >Well, I believe this is BAP in its entirety. > >Ahren "Torch" Gehrman >Eric "Iron Man" Wulff >Carol "She-Blade" Wedemeyer >Ryan "Regulator" Mulroney >Noah "Merlyn" DuBreil >Scott "Enlightener" Davidson >Paul "Hu-Mungis" Munger >Josh "Chiseler" Casey >Steve "Kosmo" Kramer >Tuan "Disco Ninja" Vu >Tu "Huge" Vu >Eric "Wicked" Windsor >"Big Add" Chad Devlahovic >Tim "Stickman" Kelly >Peter "Executioner" Irish >Greg "GF Smoothie" Nelson >Brian "Kamikenzie" McKenzie >Red "Shred" Husted >Dave "Highlander" Holton "Teva" Dave Holton >Eli "Monster" Piltz "Intergalactic" Eli Piltz >Daryl "Genzu" Genz >"Rippin" Rick Reese >"Kung Fu" Kyle Crawford >Joey Schaffer >Demitri -?- >Dennis "D Money" Jones >Kenny "Enforcer" Shults > > >... in no paricular order > > > >--Eli > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 2 07:06:56 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA15809 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:06:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f101.hotmail.com [207.82.250.220]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA19644 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:35:58 -0800 Received: (qmail 27191 invoked by uid 0); 2 Feb 1999 02:35:17 -0000 Message-ID: <19990202023517.27190.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.25.108.130 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 18:35:16 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.25.108.130] From: "James Holt" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Useless Talents Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 18:35:16 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well, professional basketball and baseball players get paid millions of dollars for their career choice. In theory though, those sports are just as useless as footbag. The only difference is a lot more people enjoy playing/watching mainstream sports than footbag which results in money. I agree but you also have to think how long have basket ball and base ball been around. also baseball and basketball have a set thing to do there is really no expression, you just hit or throw the ball but in footbag you have a much greater choice of what you want to do. so why is basketball and baseball players getting all the money and the attention? I love footbag and I think it needs more TV recognition. well I better shut up... James ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 2 07:07:04 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA15829 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:07:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f252.hotmail.com [207.82.251.143]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA20290 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:45:58 -0800 Received: (qmail 10850 invoked by uid 0); 2 Feb 1999 03:45:28 -0000 Message-ID: <19990202034528.10849.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 19:45:27 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Useless Talents Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 19:45:27 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Josh wrote in regard to the marketability of freestyle: >all we wear are shorts, socks, and one of two kinds of shoes Well, at least in public. CF nyfD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 2 07:07:43 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA15842 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:07:43 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA205 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:32:24 -0800 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:32:49 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE4E32.CBFADFA0.ewulff@jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] up's then down's Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:32:47 -0800 Organization: JSI Shipping X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 43 TEXT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yo yo yo... Something was mentioned a couple of times over the last few days and is part of where I'm coming from regarding the whole set thing which we've been boppin around lately. " ***If the bag is not on the way up following an element or group of components, it/these is not a set.*** If "blurry" is defined by a component which follows the initial set-dex component and the bag has reached its apex or is on its way down following the "blurry" than it is not a set. Blurry torque... Blurry DLO... These moves, as described, still begin with a stepping set. Regardless of what one wants to call a group of elements within the move or the move itself. Blurry, no matter how people want to define blurry, doesn't negate the step set. The step is incorporated within it. I don't particularly like "blurry-whatever" if I can describe as "stepping-paradox-whatever". Iz no big deal to me really... just not my style. Used to be. I have since changed. Believe it or not... this is a relatively NEW theory. Although change is something I fear, I handled it somehow... ?~? heh heh :) What is important, I think, is that people understand that the step is not negated within what many call blurry moves. I encourage feedback, to the list only please, in any form. If you can stomach it that is... heh heh.. Also, step is more than a simple... x-body-op-in dex(plant). As tap is more than simply toe-op-out dex(plant). That's why they are not simply called miraging or rev miraging when used as sets. More on that tomorrow... same Bat time... same Bat channel. with love & respect 5 O D B From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 2 07:39:39 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA25536 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:39:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send102.yahoomail.com (send102.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.90]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA22247 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:02:46 -0800 Message-ID: <19990202070521.22114.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.254.194.50] by send102.yahoomail.com; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 23:05:21 PST Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:05:21 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] re: BAP roster To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ---James Holt wrote: > these two were the only I noticed you are probably right but when did > they change? > > >Dave "Highlander" Holton "Teva" Dave Holton > >Eli "Monster" Piltz "Intergalactic" Eli Piltz Well, my good buddy Dave does not want his BAP name to be a brand name of shoe. And I don't want to be named after a Beastie Boys song (as JP so eloquently stated, "it's like being named 'hot blooded'.") Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 2 08:59:49 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id IAA12739 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:59:49 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f151.hotmail.com [209.185.131.214] (may be forged)) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA22620 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:11:45 -0800 Received: (qmail 27168 invoked by uid 0); 2 Feb 1999 08:00:48 -0000 Message-ID: <19990202080048.27167.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 139.67.16.57 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 00:00:47 PST X-Originating-IP: [139.67.16.57] From: "Frank Gutowski" To: magician@nccn.net, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] 8 yes 8 ADDS Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 00:00:47 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Lon, Doable?,don't think that it is symp.,can you give a good notation of this 8 add. I'm not mocking ya, just don't believe its symp., I hit what I thought was a symp. butterfly twirl two years ago, only to learn that it aint symp. - just checken.(regardless, one hell of a move no matter what.) da guillotine >From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Mon Feb 01 08:57:30 1999 >Received: from [140.174.206.7] by hotmail.com (1.1) with SMTP id MHotMailB87F27F51F704D101707D8CAECE0710D80; Mon Feb 01 08:57:30 1999 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) > by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA05696 > for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:06:45 GMT >X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f >Received: from nccn.net (nccn1.nccn.net [209.79.220.11]) > by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA10561 > for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:40:43 -0800 >Received: from left (tc2-143.nccn.net [209.79.221.143]) > by nccn.net (8.8.8/8.8.6-NR-RGS-99.01.05-) with SMTP id HAA24871 > for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:41:10 -0800 (PST) >Message-ID: <000a01be4df8$b86668e0$8fdd4fd1@left> >From: "Lon Smith" >To: "footbag" >Subject: [freestyle] 8 yes 8 ADDS >Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:50:12 -0800 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 >Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > >This move is totally doable. Just incredibly hard and I've never done it. >But someone can learn to hit this move. I call it Scrambler. > >set from left clipper do a gyro spin(only a 180) >do a counterclockwise duck >then on its way down do a >butterfly symposium twirl > >ADDS >1 spin >2 duck >3 butterfly >4 front back swirl >5 symposium >8 osis > >Somebody please try this so you can see how possible it really is. There >have been a lot of really cool moves on the list recently. Flux, New >Mirages, symp atom smasher, royale, symp legbeater, tapping symp mirage, >atomic whirl! > If you're like me you can't do these moves and haven't even tried half >of them. >All the SHREDDERS should HIT THESE MOVES they're such cool ones. >shredonLON ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 2 09:00:01 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id JAA12759 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:00:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from one.mind.net (one.mind.net [206.99.66.5]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22680 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:21:41 -0800 Received: from 206.151.158.55 (ip49.mind.net [206.151.158.55]) by one.mind.net (8.8.8/8.6.10) with SMTP id AAA14783 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:21:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B6B653.7FCF@mind.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 00:24:54 -0800 From: Forest Schrodt X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] re: BAP roster References: <19990202070521.22114.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ---James Holt wrote: > > these two were the only I noticed you are probably right but when did > > they change? > > >Dave "Highlander" Holton "Teva" Dave Holton > > >Eli "Monster" Piltz "Intergalactic" Eli Piltz ---Eli wrote: > Well, my good buddy Dave does not want his BAP name to be a brand name > of shoe. And I don't want to be named after a Beastie Boys song (as > JP so eloquently stated, "it's like being named 'hot blooded'.") > > Eli Dave will allways be "Die-Hard" Dave Holton to me. He's made the name for himself through his dedication and die hard loyalty to dancin with that funky old bag. And that is what I have to say about that. Forest. From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 2 09:07:34 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id JAA21875 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:07:34 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f151.hotmail.com [209.185.131.214] (may be forged)) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA23806 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:36:45 -0800 Received: (qmail 1906 invoked by uid 0); 2 Feb 1999 08:20:42 -0000 Message-ID: <19990202082042.1905.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 139.67.16.57 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 00:20:41 PST X-Originating-IP: [139.67.16.57] From: "Frank Gutowski" To: jpenney@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Useless Talents Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 00:20:41 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sauce, If you are really, really, really, nice to me I will let you borrow my peach umbros at the next tourney I see you. Also, you gots hella skillz at responding to this list serve. You da man, as always. guillotine From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 2 17:59:57 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA22979 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:59:57 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: (qmail 2389 invoked by uid 0); 2 Feb 1999 17:21:27 -0000 Message-ID: <19990202172127.2388.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 142.104.2.133 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 09:21:23 PST X-Originating-IP: [142.104.2.133] From: "Allan Haggett" To: magician@nccn.net Cc: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] conceptualizing Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 09:21:23 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Lon, >But someone can learn to hit this move. I call it Scrambler. >.... >set from left clipper do a gyro spin(only a 180) >do a counterclockwise duck >then on its way down do a >butterfly symposium twirl >ADDS >1 spin >2 duck >3 butterfly >4 front back swirl >5 symposium >8 osis >..... ________________________________________ Discovered the wonderful world of twirl, eh?:) Anyone who was reading this listing a couple of months ago might recall that I posted a very similar move: lft clip> duck(body)> op. out(dex)> op.f-b(dex)>prdx(body)> symp.(body)> osis(body,x-body,delay) Yes, I have hit this. QT footage forthcoming. I appear to have lost it recently.... but it will be back. Anyone attempting this BE WARNED: STRETCH your upper torso (along with the rest of ya' of course!) THOROUGHLY before and after trying. The reason I have not hit this recently is because my body is starting to rebel. Nasty a*s contorsion! X-training is starting to build some strength.... But I digress.... I reply to this because I think it is important to point out that conceptualizing moves is half the battle. I don't need to say(but I will) that footbag is a bug that gets inside your head. Once there it tends to take over a good portion of thought processing. Personally, I think about it more than ANYTHING. Fighting w/girlfriend, NOT fighting w/girlfriend(AHEM...), working, skating, sleeping, eating...... point is is that if you don't have a clear picture in your head of what you want to do, even if you can't necessarily pull it off right now, then it makes it harder to be creative when actually playing. Ironically,I have found that if I try to think about a move more than just picturing it just before trying it, I can't do it. Down-time; when your not playing, is the time to conceptualize and work out the logistics of the particular move components. Work it through, mime the motion. Give your brain time to process the order in which to put things. Then, when actually playing "let it all hang out" DON'T think about it, "just do it"(sorry) but it works for me. I think it has something to do with the meditative quality of footbag and the relation of thought process and muscle memory. Theorizing. On another note: Real-time(cable or fibre optic connection) international internet tournaments. MAD organizing and possibly unfeasible at this date and time, but possibly the future of tournaments(or a variety thereof..). Do your run in the comfort of your home town in front of a camera that broadcasts live across the planet! NOT at all suggesting that this should replace worlds or anything of the kind. Personal interaction in the communal sense is always the way it should be for deciding a world champion. Lets talk about it though. I'm getting kicked off this infernal machine now, sooooo....... for now, Allan Haggett Victoria, BC, CA PS. Lon, scrambling is exactly what that move will do to your spine if you don't stretch(even then, be really careful please!:)). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Tue Feb 2 18:34:01 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id SAA04989 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:34:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Nageylum@aol.com Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28345 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:04:38 -0800 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id RECZa19752 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:01:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:01:25 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] # of tripless players Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey kickers, recently i was wondering about the # of people that are kicking tripless, and guiltless, i'm just looking for ballpark figures. also with gimpy moves, do they count as 2 moves, or is it just one move? Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 3 03:51:52 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA20850 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:51:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA32028 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:20:18 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA17396 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:20:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx2-06.ix.netcom.com(207.94.120.134) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma017308; Tue Feb 2 16:19:31 1999 Message-ID: <36B77D26.2B63@utdallas.edu> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 16:33:10 -0600 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] # of tripless players References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Nageylum@aol.com wrote: > > hey hey kickers, > > recently i was wondering about the # of people that are kicking tripless, and > guiltless, i'm just looking for ballpark figures. > I've been wondering about this too. In Dallas, there are three totally guiltless players. One half way guiltless, and one tiltless. As far as world wide numbers... who knows? Hundreds I'm guessing. > also with gimpy moves, do they count as 2 moves, or is it just one move? > I was talking with Matt about this just last night. Technically, a move is anything between two contacts. So, if you do a blurry knee kick (isn't that a gimp?) to a butterfly, that would be a one add move to a three add move. Since you can't have a pdx knee kick, gimps really make it hard to go guiltless. I think that a gimpy butterfly should be 4 adds though... I think that it should all count as just one move. That's my opinion. Anyone else? -Derric From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 3 03:51:53 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA20853 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:51:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from smtp3.mindspring.com (smtp3.mindspring.com [207.69.200.33]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01187 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:56:38 -0800 Received: from smegma (user-38ld9ss.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.167.156]) by smtp3.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA21501 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:56:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990202185633.007ddcb0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: ecrvich@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:56:33 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] re: BAP roster In-Reply-To: <19990202070521.22114.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:05 PM 2/1/99 -0800, Eli Piltz wrote: >> >Eli "Monster" Piltz "Intergalactic" Eli Piltz > >of shoe. And I don't want to be named after a Beastie Boys song (as I agree with your choice; being named after a Flotsam & Jetsam song is preferable. And no, there's no sarcasm this time...just egoism. Sorry folks. -- Ernest "Scratch" Crvich Durham, NC, USA http://www.mindspring.com/~ecrvich Have footbag, will shred From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 3 03:51:54 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA20858 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:51:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send101.yahoomail.com (send101.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.87]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA01500 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:28:41 -0800 Message-ID: <19990203002708.5767.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.250.164.121] by send101.yahoomail.com; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 16:27:08 PST Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:27:08 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] getting technical To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org --Jeremiah wrote: > Ok, I wasn't sure. I think Red Fred told me it was a bock set. I thought that > miraging in-spin was a bock set though. So what is a bock set? And does > miraging inspin have a name? Red Fred don't know no jive; he ain't gots no clue. A Bock (or Bach?, not sure) set *is* a miraging (stepping) in-spin. -Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 3 03:53:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA20889 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:53:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: SuperOwen@aol.com Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02428 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:55:55 -0800 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 8YTQa23166 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:48:56 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <498f4e1f.36b7ab08@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:48:56 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] Bum a ride Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey guys and girls. I recently hit my parents up with the idea of spending summer vacation in Chi Town for worlds. That doesn't seem like it went over too well. And I was wondering if maybe someone that going to be passing through the Western Pennsylvania area if I can hitch a ride. Owen "Total Package" Parrish From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 3 03:53:24 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id DAA20902 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:53:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jrichter (dal-tsa33-39.cyberramp.net [209.196.80.39]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-19990112-0936) with SMTP id UAA09483 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:14:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36B7B04A.1A23@cyberramp.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:11:22 -0600 From: Joe Richter Reply-To: jrichter@cyberramp.net Organization: Me X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] TRIP(ped) (Stupid Attempt at Play on Tripless) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello All, Well, there's been a great deal of talk here lately about 'tripless', BAP guys (gotta luv 'em), and other topics above the head of a mere mortal such as myself. So, I'll throw in an easier one for you guys, and hope to get a few tips : I've been flailing away at a Paradox Whirl for the past couple of months (OK - The winter has really cut back on my bagging time, but when I've gotten out, I give the PWhirl a try). I *feel* like I'm pretty close, but I've never actually gotten the bag to actually land on my catching foot. I think I'm missing some subtle delay or body twist somewhere in the whole deal. I generally seem to be trying the whirl dexterity while the bag is still too high. My question - Anybody got any good tips for what the 'secret' to the move is? Something I need to practice at strengthening? Or just a general, "Wait for the d**n bag stupid!". Give me a bit of a hand here in the cold, dark, dreary winter Derric, Eli, etc. If nothing else, be aware that I'll be asking you for tips if you make it for the Southern Regionals in April (I know Derric will be there, hope the rest of you make it too). Hope to see you all in April, Joe Richter Dallas, Texas From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 3 07:46:39 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id HAA32565 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:46:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Allman144@aol.com Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id UPJCa01428 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:22:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <132d549c.36b7eb0e@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:22:06 EST To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Useless Talents Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well, one reason that baseball is more popular is that it is a past time. It has been around for almost 100 years. Has anyone seen "Field of Dreams?" That movie puts chills down my spine. James Earl Jones says (this isn't word for word) "Over the years the one constant has been baseball." He is right. I am not taking ANYTHING away from footbag at all. Most people don't know what footbag even is. In fact, the guy who lives next to me laughed when I said that footbag should be in the X-Games because he thinks it is boring to watch. I love footbag, I am addicted to it, and I hope that I will be kicking for a long time. But some sports just aren't embraced by the American public, like soccer. Think there is a relation there? That is my opinion. Kick on! Tony Glick From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 3 16:39:08 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id QAA06175 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:39:08 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA44 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:08:58 -0800 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:09:22 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE4F11.D5998900.ewulff@jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] freestyle "Tech Talk" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:09:21 -0800 Organization: JSI Shipping X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 87 TEXT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everyone out there... Andrew McCarger, I apologize for loosin whatever cool I've got via your direction last week. Kinda makes me ill thinkin about it. Next time I'll try and be a little more tactful or at least put in a few he heez or ha haaz Now for anyone that wants to read on and on... I'm gonna throw a HEAP 'O' CRAP on this here steptapblurrynuclearatomic debate/discussion/tirade... So... If you're not sleepin already... this might help... haha I do not necessarily disagree with the LOGIC behind some attempted definitions for blurry, atomic, nuclear... etc. I do disagree with them being considered "sets" and exclusive of "tap" or "step". Why? I gave 1 point of my reasoning in a post yesterday. Today... 2. There is only one component in all these descriptions/definitions which start with the x-body-op in dex(plant). What is that component? It is not simply the x-body-op in dex (plant), although those are the add components, it is the x-body op in dex (plant) executed in the motion/style which some freestylers call, most likely named by Scott Davidson, the "step". THIS IS THE KEY TO MY POINT OF VIEW The x-body op-in dex plant can be mistakenly described as a mirage. The add components are the same. However, the components are executed completely differently. That is why it is not a "miraging" set. Someone could practice mirage for years and still have no clue how to execute a x-body-op-in dex plant in the "stepping" style. Trust me.. myself and a whole generation of freestylers are the supporting evidence. We did mirages for a long time. It still took a significant amount of time to learn x-body-op-in dex plant in the "stepping" motion necessary to execute moves like blur, ripwalk, blurry whirl and on and on. That is also why, when I responded to the list regarding someone's inquiry about the components of a step being the same as a mirage, I said.. "Yes. BUT, DON'T practice your mirages to improve moves with a step set. Practice your steps." Step, tap, nor many other components of moves and moves themselves can be fully described when simplified, broken down or abbreviated. That is part of the beauty of freestyle. Can't be put in a box. It's @#%&ing CRAZY! JUST LOOK AT THIS POST! O.K., I'm gonna wind this thing up with a little more evidence of how awesome freestyle is and how crazy I am... Break this down... STEP - Eric Wulff's description... x-body set from a DELAY(a flyer might be possible but hasn't been done yet) in which your op-in dex leg bares the brunt of the bodies weight during the launch. In other words, you begin jumping off your support/dex leg while your setting the bag. Therefore, assistance in the jump/launch is not provided by the set leg until the body's spring has been initiated by the support/launch/dex leg. The goal of this motion... too perform the launch of the bag, the body, and execute the in dex as close to the same time as possible "WITHOUT" pulling the bag under the dex leg before the dex actually happens. When executed well, the bag is still on it's way UP after this motion is completed. Hence, the bag has been SET. Why different than a mirage, which can also be x-body op-in dex plant? Mirage would be x-body set from a delay or "FLYER" in which the set is complete before initiating any dex or jump. Set foot is planted and bares the body's weight-(or.. does the jumping) so that the op leg can perform the in dex. ***The bag is on it's way down after the dex . NOT a set... it's a move.** Rinse theory and apply again to "reverse mirage vs tap" if desired. Eric 'iman' Wulff I know what you might be thinkin... Duh... who out there didn't know this already? Sure... ya say that now... heh heh Any and all comments welcome. Not to my e-mail directly... please... to the list only. anything? does anyone care about this topic anymore?? Did anyone to begin with.. sniff.. sniff From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Wed Feb 3 23:30:31 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id XAA02137 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:30:31 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12826 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:49:14 -0800 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #33464) with SMTP id <0F6L00H01GEBWA@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:49:23 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 12:49:22 -0700 (MST) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox? In-reply-to: <3124beef.36b23892@aol.com> To: Damon Mathews Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Damon Mathews wrote: > Paradox- The set has to be a clipper, followed by the same [in/out] or > [out/in](not including legover dexs. ie. butterflys, and legovers) dexterity > with the bag ending on the opposite foot or the same foot in the cross-body > postion only. How about spin moves that have paradox in them? For example, spinning paradox mirage. Usually the set is (let's say) right foot clipper, spin to the right, in/out dex with the left, catch right toe. Wouldn't you still get the paradox if you set right toe, spin right, left in/out dex, catch right toe? I was practicing these two last night and it seemed to me that the spin element can take the place of needing to set clipper for a paradox. Try it and tell me what you think, I believe it's open to a certain amount of interpretation. ta ta for now, BRAD From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 4 00:07:25 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA21179 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:07:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15564 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:32:53 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA26648 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:32:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox? Message-Id: <000000518303000929566@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 17:32:45 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.0.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, Feb 3, 1999, 1:49:22 PM US CST KAPLAN BRADLEY M wrote: >in/out dex, catch right toe? I was practicing these two last night and it >seemed to me that the spin element can take the place of needing to set What Steve Goldberg, myself, and a few other IFAB members worked out awhile ago regarding this is that the spin element basically overwhelmed the paradox element; after spinning around like that and switching feet and all, the paradox element got lost. So we wrote a definition for paradox that says a spin before a paradox "subsumes" the paradox. This makes both paradox mirage and your "clipper-set-backspin-to-opposite-leg-mirage-to-opposite-foot- contact" moves both worth 3 adds. Eric "Ironman" Wulff, however, states flatly that it is paradox, making it 4 adds. And maybe it depends on the execution. I usually see people do the set and the spin and literally stand still on both feet for a fraction of a second, and then do a mirage. To me, that is NOT paradox. But I have seen people have to really contort to pull off the move, too, making it seem quite paradox. So what do you think: Should paradox be based on the execution, where it looks like poor timing that makes the move more difficult should be awarded an add, or should it just be one way or the other, 3 or 4 add, regardless? Who do you want to believe? Its not just a paradox, its also an enigmatic oxymoron! ______________________________________ Derrick "the fossilized paradoxical enigmatic oxymoron" Fogle for everyone else, it only matters what they do in life; for me, it matters where I was born and on which foot I will die From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 4 00:33:37 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id AAA23428 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:33:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15987 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:57:43 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.130] (dhcp130 [206.66.71.130]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16170; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:58:03 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000000518303000929566@mlerf.org> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:58:09 -0800 To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 5:32 PM -0600 2/3/99, Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: > What Steve Goldberg, myself, and a few other IFAB members worked out awhile > ago regarding this is that the spin element basically overwhelmed the paradox > element I actually never put my name on that particular tidbit. I have always agreed with Wulffie that paradox isn't "negated" by spins, but that *GYRO* moves (moves that follow the model of the original "gyro" in the loosest interpretation -- spins with an initial dexterity with the plant foot) are necessarily never paradox. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 4 01:46:11 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id BAA17708 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:46:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA49 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:52:50 -0800 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:53:15 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE4F95.B10D1AA0.ewulff@jsishipping.com> From: Eric Wulff To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] "Hot Blooded"... cool Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:53:13 -0800 Organization: JSI Shipping X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 5 TEXT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yo Eli... Hey Josh... Everybody... I think "Hot Blooded" would be a cool BAP name. Just like "Intergalactic" was... "Ironman" ?~?~?~ From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 4 05:44:39 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA30277 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 05:44:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18933 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:02:53 -0800 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA16987 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:02:59 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox? Message-Id: <000000519163000942175@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 21:02:55 -0600 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.0.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, Feb 3, 1999, 5:58:09 PM US CST Steve Goldberg wrote: >original "gyro" in the loosest interpretation -- spins with an >initial dexterity with the plant foot) are necessarily never paradox. Thanks for setting the record straight, except that you've got me totally confused now. Do you mean the initial dexterity with the setting foot? Or do you mean exactly what you say, which to me means that the move I described in the previous post is "necessarily never paradox?" What about a blurry gyro? ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle with the fossilized brain From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 4 05:45:41 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA30292 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 05:45:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from send105.yahoomail.com (send105.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.128]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA19626 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:38:48 -0800 Message-ID: <19990204034005.27974.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.250.162.148] by send105.yahoomail.com; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:40:05 PST Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:40:05 -0800 (PST) From: Eli Piltz Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Hot Blooded"... cool To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Eric & y'all, > I think "Hot Blooded" would be a cool BAP name. Just like "Intergalactic" was... Yeah, reeaal cool. You might as well be named after a Black Sabbath song, er sumthing... ooh, wait, I take it back, oh no how could I, D'oh!, please Eric forgive me. Eli _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 4 05:45:44 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA30305 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 05:45:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Damon Mathews Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20531 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:59:07 -0800 Received: from Damonmath@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IDYEa07005 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:57:52 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <68a9b921.36b928d0@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:57:52 EST To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [freestyle] An end to paradox Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org After several replies of obvious exceptions to my paradox definition, I now will lay to rest any last impressions of paradox from this side of the continent. First of all the style here in Charlotte NC is fast,( Double dexs and up, no more than one or two 3 adds between long strings of 4 and 5 adds.) Moves are sick ex.)) Jason's pulling fairy whirls, fairy paradons, and fusion all in one string, after numerous ripwalks, blurs, legbeaters, and paradox whirls BOTH SIDES. He pumps me up for pixie-paradons and pixie-double legovers, after long strings of pixie butterflies, ripwalks, blurs,paradons, double-over- downs, paradons, blizards, paradox whirls, paradox symposium mirages, etc... We have a fair understanding of tricks and concepts. Secondly by submitting a defintion for paradox we were beating a dead horse, I apologize. I have landed paradox: legbeater, atom smasher, symposium reverse whirling x-body rake, whirl, symposium whirl, drifter, dada curve, torque, symposium mirage, blender, double legover, blur, .......you get the point. We know a little bit about paradox, but to classify it by a single definition seems like a circular argument.... IT'S PARADOX BECAUSE IT"S PARADOX. Third we agree with Eric Wulff about paradox changing direction after a spin. Not negating the spin by actually adding another degree of difficulty to the move. EX.)) Gyro paradox mirage-4adds , gyro paradox whirl-5adds, gyro paradox torque-6adds. The gyro add is the same body add given in an osis, while the paradox add would be determined from where an osis would end had it been done instead of a gyro. Giving a gyro paradox move 2 adds of difficulty to build off of. Fourth, sorry for misleading any impressionable styler's searching for truth. Paradox is an advanced concept that well deserves the attention of freestylers, however its not worth beating into the ground. We are working hard everyday to explode on the scene at Worlds 99'. For those who don't know me, which is quite a few, I'm 23 years old and have been shredin' for over two years now. I went from toe stalls to tripless strings, with practice, study, more study, more practice, streching, sheer will, ambition, and speed!.............. Wish you could see the glory from such a boring axx town! As for PARADOX- RIP Damon "The Dominator" From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 4 05:52:54 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA30836 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 05:52:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20717 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:26:37 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.130] (dhcp130 [206.66.71.130]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18768; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:24:25 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000000519163000942175@mlerf.org> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:24:33 -0800 To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Paradox? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:02 PM -0600 2/3/99, Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: > Do you mean the initial dexterity with the setting foot? Yeah, sorry, I meant "setting foot". Thanks. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 4 08:20:36 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id IAA02296 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:20:36 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Aaaron de Glanville Received: from dewdrop2.mindspring.com (dewdrop2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11314 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:48:41 -0800 Received: from aaron (user-38ld625.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.152.69]) by dewdrop2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA12403 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:48:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990203094426.006bc238@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:44:26 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] moves and sets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derric wrote: >Each move - or trick - has two parts. One is while the bag is on the >way up. This is what I think of as a set. The other part of the trick >is done while the bag is on the way down. This part, I think of as the >actual move. I-man wrote: >***If the bag is not on the way up following an element or group of components, >it/these is not a set.*** That sounds logical; I for one wouldn't mind seeing that provisio generally adopted. But I'm guessing that not *anything* performed "on the way up" necessarily qualifies as a set, as D.S. is suggesting (e.g. how much of a triple-a.t.w. is the 'set'?). And I can already see possibilities for gray area...I imagine someone could pull off a double-pixie 'set' by this definition, though the bag might not always be obviously "on the way up". >I do not necessarily disagree with the LOGIC behind some attempted >definitions for blurry, atomic, nuclear... etc. I do disagree with them >being considered "sets" and exclusive of "tap" or "step". It does seem, though, that people generally recognize "blurry" as meaning "stepping paradox". Though "stepping>[op side component]" seems more useful. And if 'atomic' and 'nuclear' simply meant 'rvs miraging [plant]' and 'pdx rvs miraging [plant]' respectively, as Eli seemed to suggest that they could, then they *could* be considered sets by your definition. On another matter: >The x-body op-in dex plant can be mistakenly described as a mirage. The >add components are the same. However, the components are executed >completely differently. That is why it is not a "miraging" set. I imagine that this is very much a minority opinion, which I believe to be right on target. The implications for how it would change move descriptions, however, are enormous. Freestyle theory...gotta love it... aa (Aaron de Glanville) From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 4 08:20:36 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id IAA02299 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:20:36 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f From: Aaaron de GLAnVille Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05321 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:51:30 -0800 Received: from aaron (user-38ld77g.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.156.240]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA28963 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:51:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990202224713.006e8360@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aadegl@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 22:47:13 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] getting technical In-Reply-To: <19990203002708.5767.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > A Bock (or Bach?, >not sure) set *is* a miraging (stepping) in-spin. > I always thought Red was saying "BOX set", as in music (*bock*???). Who came up with the name? aa From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 4 17:19:15 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA12803 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:19:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Message-ID: <19990204162135.27035.rocketmail@send206.yahoomail.com> Received: from [209.108.197.65] by send206.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 04 Feb 1999 08:21:35 PST Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:21:35 -0800 (PST) From: cory current Subject: [freestyle] Re: TRIP(ped) (Stupid Attempt at Play on Tripless) To: freestyle@majordomo.footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Howdy all! Greetings from a remote windy suburb of the windy city, and I do mean windy! Joe Richter wrote: > hope to get a few tips : > I've been flailing away at a Paradox Whirl for the > past couple of months....... I *feel* like I'm pretty > close, but I've never actually gotten the bag to > actually land on my > catching foot. I think I'm missing some subtle delay > or body twist > somewhere in the whole deal. I generally seem to be trying the whirl > dexterity while the bag is still too high. My question - Anybody got any > good tips for what the 'secret' to the move is? Something I need to > practice at strengthening? Or just a general, "Wait for the d**n bag > stupid!". "Wait for the d**n bag stupid!." Just kiddin. Here's some things that I've drilled and they seem to help. Try a *simple* toe set whirl. When I skooled the paradox whirl, I would toe set with right foot, dex with left, stall right. I usually set about chest height, possibly lower. You could really give yourself 2 angles of sets from the toe: 1. You could toe set directly in front of you, pivot your body about 45 degrees clockwise (so the bag is suddenly on the left side) finish dex/stall. 2. Instead of setting directly in front of you, start with your toe exaggerated to your right side, and set the bag kind of across your body, so it's parallel with your chest and crosses your lap. This will simulate a set from left clipper, but gives you more time 'cause you don't have to worry about getting your left leg from the set all the way to the other side for the dex. Once you get that motion, you should be able set from clipper and hit it. Also, when I do it, just before my left leg does the whirl dex, I jump off my right foot to position it for the stall. (not so much a jump, more like leaving the ground for a brief second, so i am actually completely in the air for a moment.) I like to do a x-body rake sometimes instead of the clipper stall for variety sake. (paradox whirling x-body rake, a.k.a Joey Marschal killer) Hope this helps in the crusade. Kickers, flame away == kick. Cory Current 1999 Chicago World's Director _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 4 17:19:19 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA12809 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:19:19 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: (from jpenney@localhost) by hejira.hunter.cuny.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id LAA25457; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:38:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:38:33 -0500 (EST) From: Deliciously Saucy Josh Penney To: "'freestyle'" Subject: Re: [freestyle] "Hot Blooded"... cool In-Reply-To: <01BE4F95.B10D1AA0.ewulff@jsishipping.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Eric Wulff wrote: > Yo Eli... Hey Josh... Everybody... > > I think "Hot Blooded" would be a cool BAP name. Just like "Intergalactic" was... > In *that* case, I'd like to be known as Josh "Elderly Woman Behind the Counter In A Small Town" Penney. not. JP From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 4 17:27:07 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA12880 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:27:07 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27567 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:57:57 -0800 Received: from [206.66.71.130] (dhcp130 [206.66.71.130]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18532 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:58:24 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:58:31 -0800 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Some freestyle list policies -- again Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Okay, one more time: (1) PLEASE don't make up your own subject lines unless you're starting a new thread. If you're replying to a message or a series of messages, always make sure the Subject: field of your outgoing message contains the same subject as the incoming message, with the possible exception of the "Re: " that goes in front. If you use your e-mail program's "reply to all" function to reply to messages that you want to go to the whole list, it will do everything right on this front. NEVER MANUALLY ADD "(freestyle)" OR "[freestyle]" to your subject line. It gets added automatically. (2) YOU MUST make your return address (the From: field on your outgoing e-mail) contain your *REAL NAME*. Only in cases where I know you cannot change your name will I allow you to post to the list; and in those cases you must sign your name to the end. The purpose of this list is not as an anonymous chat -- this is a way for freestylers to meet and learn from each other, etc. If nobody knows your name, the list is useless in my opinion, and since I'm the one who spends time processing requests to join and leave, I don't want to waste my time. (3) PLEASE don't include the *entire* message you're replying to when you reply to a message on this list. Always *edit* the message to remove all the comments you're not specifically replying to, and interleave your comments (separated by blank lines from the text you're replying to) with the most specific quoted comments from the previous message possible. And use one of the *standard* quoting mechanisms for e-mail replies; don't invent your own. (Angle-brackets ">" are the most common, but there are others and it's okay if you use them as long as they make it easy for readers to parse your reply out of the message.) (4) YOU MUST NOT reply to a digest. Compose a new message and follow (1) above to set the subject line correctly. (5) YOU MUST NOT post to the wrong list. This list (freestyle) is for freestyle. There are several other lists. When you mail to "list-name"@footbag.org, your mail is posted to the list named "list-name". THIS list is freestyle@footbag.org. So if you want to post to this list, send to freestyle@footbag.org. Don't send to some other address @footbag.org. Am I making sense? Read the info at http://www.footbag.org/discussion.html for more. Thanks. Steve From owner-freestyle@eniac.yak.net Thu Feb 4 17:30:08 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id RAA12901 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:30:08 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle using -f Received: from ra.nilenet.com (root@ra.nilenet.com [204.227.31.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20832 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:38:00 -0800 Received: from unknown (slip27.den.nilenet.net [206.247.98.27]) by ra.nilenet.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id WAA20989 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:35:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Daryl Genz" Subject: [freestyle] '99 Heart of Vegas Jam Update Date: Wed, 03 Feb 99 22:54:08 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id GAA30874 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Freestylers: Just a "quick" update on the 99 Heart of Vegas Freestyle Jam. As a reminder, this is a Non-Competetive Event! There is no "sanctioned competition", though, as in any event with players of this caliber, I would guess that there might be a hint of competition in the circles. ;-> Up-to-date info is always at: http://www.footbag.org/events/ Dates: Feb 19,20,21 (Fri Night, Sat, Sun) Host Hotel: Stratosphere Hotel: 1-800-998-6937 Alt Hotel: (Across Street from Strat) Aztec Inn: 1-702-385-4566 Alt Alt Hotel: As is standard at all tourneys, there will be x-tra floor space available in many player's rooms (possibly for a small % of the room cost). Contact players when you get out there and well work it out. Current Attendees: Adrian Dick (Yes, from New Zeland!!) Stuart McFerson (Yes, from New Zeland!!) Rippin' Rick Reese Richard Abshire Big Add Chad Ryan Sanders (The Tattoo Guy) Eli Piltz David Holton (?) Eric Windsor Kyle Crawford Ariel Santesteban Steve Goldberg Forest Schrodt