From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat May 1 16:22:29 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01084 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:22:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f46.hotmail.com [216.32.181.46]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA28486 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:33:51 -0700 Received: (qmail 92879 invoked by uid 0); 1 May 1999 05:33:18 -0000 Message-ID: <19990501053318.92877.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.107.152.29 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:33:18 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.107.152.29] From: "Danny Cardonne" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] diving directions Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:33:18 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: "jon nagela" My dive is like a duck but it doesnt >switch sides. Now try to do a dive ( the "everybody" way) but does switch sides... Danny ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 7 04:28:47 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA02581 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 7 May 1999 04:28:47 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15450 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 13:43:45 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #33464) with SMTP id <0FBB00H01W8DOH@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 6 May 1999 14:43:25 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 14:43:24 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] More Phat Trick Contests? To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Are there going to be phat trick and string contests at Western Regionals and/or Worlds? From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 7 04:29:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA02593 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 7 May 1999 04:29:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA11520 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 00:27:12 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #33464) with SMTP id <0FB9004010P0H2@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 5 May 1999 01:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 01:27:00 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Laver mods:the second saga. In-reply-to: <19990428020835.96733.qmail@hotmail.com> To: matt dick Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, matt dick wrote: > Is this the canvas around the ankle (the > white stuff and blue stuff that says Rod Laver on the back) and the > canvas that supports the eye-stays? Also, about the "canvas strip It's the canvas on the inside of the shoe which is attached to the nylon. There's a thin layer of glue keeping them together so you take your razor blade and work out a little piece then stick your finger in between to pull them apart so you can cut along the edge easier. Some people including myself recently go as far as to cut off the first couple of string holes. This severely lessens the "cup" but it has benefits in pixie and fairie sets and not having it stick annoyingly on the edge of the cup or getting it stuck in between the lip and your toe. Customize as you go to see how you like it. The canvas part is really good so you can feel the bag better, but you may not want to cut the toe as much. BRAD From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 7 04:29:23 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA02602 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 7 May 1999 04:29:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA11846 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 00:31:12 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #33464) with SMTP id <0FB9003010VY0X@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 5 May 1999 01:31:10 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 01:31:10 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] Dallas Footbag?? To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What were the results from the Southern Regionals? BRAD From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 7 04:29:24 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA02611 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 7 May 1999 04:29:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f126.hotmail.com [207.82.251.5]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA13542 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 04:23:55 -0700 Received: (qmail 11832 invoked by uid 0); 5 May 1999 11:23:23 -0000 Message-ID: <19990505112323.11831.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.137 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 05 May 1999 04:23:22 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.137] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Vert Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 04:23:22 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, While watching Skating vert I had an Idea for a new event format. This being an event format scoring could be any type, although with modifications (explained later). Competeters play for only 1 or 1 and a half minouts, and each gets three atempts at their routine keeping the best score and going in rotation to give them a rest between. As soon as they drop the bag the routine ends. Scoring could be any format, but it would have to be aditive in nature so that players can be judged fairly on what ever they completed. Naturally if a player finishes the max time they will have more time to add more to their score, so that is the goal. However if someone just feels like schreding like mad until they drop, and hope one out of three they'll get close to the time limit they may also place well. Seems like a fun format, and one that allows players to totally screw up a few performances without getting totally knocked out. It probably wouldn't replace anything, but it would be fun to try out. Ideas coments? -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 7 19:41:24 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04751 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 7 May 1999 19:41:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd106.hotmail.com [207.82.252.170]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA04036 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 11:38:05 -0700 Received: (qmail 91142 invoked by uid 0); 7 May 1999 18:37:31 -0000 Message-ID: <19990507183731.91141.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.232.145.4 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 07 May 1999 11:37:31 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.232.145.4] From: "keith myers" To: damocles_schwert@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Vert Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 11:37:31 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org that idea sounds really good. it gives people a chance to shred or just take it easy, and still score mad points. later keith _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 11 17:34:53 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16847 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:34:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA10068 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 08:30:26 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA09112 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:30:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx46-12.ix.netcom.com(198.211.44.140) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009068; Tue May 11 10:29:55 1999 Message-ID: <373852D6.D15@utdallas.edu> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 10:55:02 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] dead list and reverse whirls Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hola. Since the list has been somewhat dead, I thought I would throw out a few messages to liven things up. How about this: Is a paradox reverse whirl a valid move? Has anyone ever hit this cleanly, or does it always end up looking more like an infinity? How about a symp reverse whirl? I say that it is not only possible, but a well deserved 4 adds. Any comments? And, assuming that both of these are moves, how about a pdx syp rev whirl? Blurry? Pixie? Fairy? Spinning? Gyro? Stepping? Give me ideas of what all is possible with the reverse whirl motion. I'll see everyone at worlds. -Derric DFC From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 11 17:35:16 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16863 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:35:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matt NoLastName Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA16777 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 06:33:46 -0700 Received: from Problems1@aol.com (328) by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id zJULa16142 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 09:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2e23fa7c.24659718@aol.com> Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 09:33:12 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] More Phat Trick Contests? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, I think it's someone's duty to acknowledge footbag as most likely the first sport ever to have an official event with a name involving the word "phat" ;) matt From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 11 17:35:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16872 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:35:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Bryan Fourner Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19784; Sat, 8 May 1999 10:36:00 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com (372) by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id lNTRa07564; Sat, 8 May 1999 13:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5d901c76.2465cf55@aol.com> Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 13:33:09 EDT Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle] Laver mods:the second saga. To: kaplanb@mscd.edu, dick889@hotmail.com CC: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 5/6/99 7:33:28 PM, kaplanb@mscd.edu wrote: <> Now thats insane, thats like racing BMX bikes without brakes...pretty cool whoever can shred their shoes mutilated like this. Word. keep pushing envelopes ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 11 17:35:20 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16881 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:35:20 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA09907 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 08:25:07 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA08244 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:24:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx46-12.ix.netcom.com(198.211.44.140) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma008159; Tue May 11 10:23:39 1999 Message-ID: <3738515E.6380@utdallas.edu> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 10:48:46 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Zoid - Noid Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all. I have a question that has been plaguing the Dallas Club for a while. I heard a mention a while back about a Zoid set. James Roberts - the local Sempei - owns this set, but I'm not sure about the name. I heard that it was named after the little guy on the old Dominoe's Pizza commercials. The only problem is that that guy was a Noid... not a Zoid. So, is this a Noid or a Zoid? start with the bag on your right toe while the right foot is on the ground. Raise your left leg over the bag. Hop off of your right leg sending the bag out in front of your left leg. Then, do mirage, osis, butterfly, whirl or torque on either side. If you want to see one of these (actually 3 of these in a run), go to our web site http://www.dallasfootbag.org and check out the videos. We'll be posting new videos from the 1999 Southern Regionals soon. -Derric Dallas Footbag Club From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 11 18:12:15 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17008 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:12:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12048 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:05:49 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA02287 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:05:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx46-12.ix.netcom.com(198.211.44.140) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma002243; Tue May 11 12:05:23 1999 Message-ID: <37386936.6AEE@utdallas.edu> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:30:30 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Laver mods:the second saga. References: <5d901c76.2465cf55@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org It has been said that: > < first couple of string holes. This severely lessens the "cup" but it has > benefits in pixie and fairie sets and not having it stick annoyingly on > the edge of the cup or getting it stuck in between the lip and your toe.>> > > Now thats insane, thats like racing BMX bikes without brakes...pretty cool > whoever can shred their shoes mutilated like this. Word. > keep pushing envelopes > Once you get to a certain point in footbag, the 'toe box' of Lavers isn't needed as much. Look at Red using whatever kind of shoes those are. Or, look at all of the new badass freestylers using Tevas (Eli, Dave, Frank, etc). And then there is Aaron dG with his weird Laver lacing method that eliminates a toe box. I think that it is important to note that most - if not all - of these footbaggers started out with the modified Lavers. Having the toe box is a crutch that is very important for learning toe stalls. Once toe stalls are easy for you, you can remove the toe box and start in with crazy pixies and fairies. Don't be afraid of the modified Lavers... they are a good thing. Now, for my reccommended modifications. I still like a toe box... but, I also like having fairy and pixie sets that aren't stuck on the cup. So, I cut off some of the box. I didn't remove any eyes or anything. Instead, I just cut off some of the leather around the eyes. So, I have a toe box that only stands up half as high (still just as long) as a normal one. I hardly ever have problems with a pixie of fairy sticking to this shorter box. If you are thinking about cutting off some eye holes to lessen the box, I would reccommend that you do it bit by bit. Start off by just trimming the leather. Then, if you want / need to cut off more, you can. You can always cut off more, but to add to the toe box, you need to buy new shoes. Just my thoughts. -Derric From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 11 19:59:30 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17400 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:59:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from fastcart.com ([209.32.190.67]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA15057 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:58:41 -0700 Received: from qbert [209.32.190.11] by fastcart.com (SMTPD32-5.01) id AD47408010E; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:56:07 CDT X-Sender: dan@po.fastcart.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:03:20 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Dan Chick Subject: Re: [freestyle] Zoid - Noid In-Reply-To: <3738515E.6380@utdallas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-Id: <199905111356.SM00227@qbert> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id TAA17375 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What videos are these in? I don't see them listed in the descriptions. I'm downloading some of them but I have a T1 here... :) For those of us with slower connections which clips should we check out to see 'em? Dan Chick Twin Cities Footbag www.footbag.net At 10:48 AM 5/11/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hello all.ÝÝ I have a question that has been plaguing the Dallas Club >for a while.Ý I heard a mention a while back about a Zoid set.Ý James >Roberts - the local Sempei - owns this set, but I'm not sure about the >name.Ý I heard that it was named after the little guy on the old >Dominoe's Pizza commercials.Ý The only problem is that that guy was a >Noid... not a Zoid.Ý So, is this a Noid or a Zoid? > >start with the bag on your right toe while the right foot is on the >ground.Ý Raise your left leg over the bag.Ý Hop off of your right leg >sending the bag out in front of your left leg.Ý Then, do mirage, osis, >butterfly, whirl or torque on either side. > >If you want to see one of these (actually 3 of these in a run), go to >our web site http://www.dallasfootbag.org and check out the videos. >We'll be posting new videos from the 1999 Southern Regionals soon.Ý > >-Derric >Dallas Footbag Club > From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 12 03:15:15 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19001 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 May 1999 03:15:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22906 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:23:00 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #33464) with SMTP id <0FBL00J01IIANA@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:22:59 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:22:58 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] dead list and reverse whirls In-reply-to: <373852D6.D15@utdallas.edu> To: Derric Scalf Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Reply-to: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 11 May 1999, Derric Scalf wrote: > How about a symp reverse whirl? I say that it is not only possible, but > a well deserved 4 adds. Any comments? Certainly deserving of 4 adds if symp. butterfly is. BRAD From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 12 03:15:31 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19009 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 May 1999 03:15:31 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from postoffice2.direcpc.com (mail.direcpc.com [198.77.116.30]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20103 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:43:05 -0700 Received: from hh1114112 ([206.71.114.112]) by postoffice2.direcpc.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-45425U50000L50000S0) with SMTP id AAA16701; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:43:49 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990511184449.00927840@mail.direcpc.com> X-Sender: mavery@mail.direcpc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:45:46 -0700 To: scalf@utdallas.edu, freestyle@footbag.org From: Matt Avery Subject: Re: [freestyle] dead list and reverse whirls In-Reply-To: <373852D6.D15@utdallas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey guys-- Rev. Whirl? Uhh...wouldnt that just make it a butterfly? Hence, butterfly and symposium butterfly? Matt At 10:55 AM 5/11/99 -0500, Derric Scalf wrote: >Hola. > >Since the list has been somewhat dead, I thought I would throw out a few >messages to liven things up. How about this: > >Is a paradox reverse whirl a valid move? Has anyone ever hit this >cleanly, or does it always end up looking more like an infinity? > >How about a symp reverse whirl? I say that it is not only possible, but >a well deserved 4 adds. Any comments? > >And, assuming that both of these are moves, how about a pdx syp rev >whirl? Blurry? Pixie? Fairy? Spinning? Gyro? Stepping? > >Give me ideas of what all is possible with the reverse whirl motion. >I'll see everyone at worlds. > >-Derric >DFC From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 12 03:15:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19013 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 May 1999 03:15:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA20925 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:35:10 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by theglobe.com; Tue May 11 16:34:32 1999 To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:34:32 -0700 From: "Ian Dubman" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [freestyle] dead list and reverse whirls X-Sender-Ip: 128.206.120.62 Organization: E-Mail @ theglobe.com (http://www.globe-mail.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Is a paradox reverse whirl a valid move? Has anyone ever hit this >cleanly, or does it always end up looking more like an infinity? Derric, I have seen your reverse whirl--that is where this simple answer becomes difficult. Normally, I would say, "Hell NO!! It is just a funky butterfly" But, I do sympathize with the fact that the move you bust is a bit more difficult than a normal butterfly. Though, after just reading over what I wrote, I would say that the paradox is negated. Why?? Well, A butterfly, though easier I agree, still utilizes the "same dex>opp delay" as does the barfly. The barfly is more difficult than the butterfly but this by no means justifies adding a paradox(or so I have been told). So to make a long story a bit longer... No, I do not think it should receive the paradox add, but it is a dank move. Late, Ian D. MUFF "Free web-based email available now at http://www.theglobe.com" From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 12 03:15:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19017 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 May 1999 03:15:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Josh Childs Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18294 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:14:07 -0700 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com (577) by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id fDBJa10991; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:53:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:53:51 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Laver mods:the second saga. To: scalf@utdallas.edu CC: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 5/11/99 1:15:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, scalf@utdallas.edu writes: << I also like having fairy and pixie sets that aren't stuck on the cup. So, I cut off some of the box. I didn't remove any eyes or anything. >> sup all, in my opinion killing the walls on your lavers don't do anything beyound looks. I've taken lil by lil off the walls to the point of killling a eyehole on in and out steps From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 12 03:15:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19021 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 May 1999 03:15:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA23181 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:30:31 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #33464) with SMTP id <0FBL00K01IUU1A@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:30:30 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:30:30 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] Crash space To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everyone, I'm still looking for someones nice hard floor with an empty spot on it for myself and a friend during Western Regionals at the end of May. If you have some space available we'd really appreciate it. Thanks, BRAD From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 12 08:02:19 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA19894 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 May 1999 08:02:19 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from smtp2.mindspring.com (smtp2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.32]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27067 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 21:11:25 -0700 Received: from u8m6j4 (user-2ini84s.dialup.mindspring.com [165.121.32.156]) by smtp2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA24180 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 00:11:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000e01be9c2d$ec0ba4c0$9c2079a5@u8m6j4> Reply-To: "Jane Jones" From: "Jane Jones" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] dead list and reverse whirls Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 21:14:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Yeah, I was trying to get this clarified last fall sometime...you could probably check the archives. It seemed like the only answers were personal opinions. I think it's a butterfly, but most of the people I kick with consider it a reverse whirl and an entirely different move. The distinguishing factor, as far as I can tell, is that the dexterity comes from a hip rotation for a butterfly and from a knee rotation for a reverse whirl. --Jane From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 12 08:02:47 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA19904 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 May 1999 08:02:47 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from smtp2.mindspring.com (smtp2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.32]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27418 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 21:34:08 -0700 Received: from u8m6j4 (user-2ini84s.dialup.mindspring.com [165.121.32.156]) by smtp2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA29046 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 00:34:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001701be9c31$18cd7080$9c2079a5@u8m6j4> Reply-To: "Jane Jones" From: "Jane Jones" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] dead list and reverse whirls Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 21:37:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Okay, I'm half way following here... I thought the question referred more to whether the "reverse whirl" part of the trick was valid because it is actually a butterfly, and not anything to do with the paradox component. so, ultimately, the question is if this "paradox reverse whirl" move is exactly that, or whether it would be considered an infiniti which according to Job's notation is identical. It seems to me that barfly doesn't get the paradox add because it isn't really...it's just a clipper set paradon (still coming from the same side...like Ian was saying). If it were paradox, it be more like a spinning barfly...now wouldn't that be classified as a scorpian's tail ( i think that's what I 've heard it called anyway). I'm not going to delve into the whole paradox/spin thing, but I think it's only possible to do a butterfly from spinning or gyro and not paradox. So...back to the drawing board...if you think "reverse whirl" exists as a unique move, then sure, "paradox reverse whirl" is a valid move. However, if you're like me and think its still technically a butterfly, you're really just pulling an infiniti. I guess I'd have to see it... I like to think of it as no man pulls the same move alike...the "freestyle" part of footbag that makes it so fun to watch is how different each person's style is....freestyle..... see ya, Jane From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 12 08:36:05 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA19974 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 May 1999 08:36:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f296.hotmail.com [207.82.251.187]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA30240 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 00:31:10 -0700 Received: (qmail 87497 invoked by uid 0); 12 May 1999 07:30:36 -0000 Message-ID: <19990512073036.87496.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 12 May 1999 00:30:35 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: iguana04@SPRYNET.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] dead list and reverse whirls Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 00:30:35 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. Jane says: > >It seems to me that barfly doesn't get the paradox add because it isn't >really...it's just a clipper set paradon (still coming from the same >side...like Ian was saying). If it were paradox, it be more like a >spinning >barfly...now wouldn't that be classified as a scorpian's tail ( i think >that's what I 've heard it called anyway). Two things: First off, a scorpion's tail is a spinning down double down. I haven't seen a gyro barfly yet, but i like the name "garfield" for it. Also, if a barfly doesn't get a paradox add, then why does a nuclear set get one? If you are going to argue that a nuclear set gets a pdx add because the leg does a full rotation, then think about a barfly where the first dex is a full circling of the bag. Or how about pdx legbeater? If the pdx is in the set part of the move, then whatever is done after the set shouldn't change the paradox nature of the move. Using this logic, then what if one were to perform a nuclear set followed by a butterfly that stalls on the non-setting foot? Isn't this just a barfly with a plant? Yet if the pdx component is in the nuclear set, then this should get the same breakdown as pdx legbeater. Any thoughts on this anybody? Ken CF Somolinos nyfd "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want." -Calvin and Hobbes _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 12 16:43:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01068 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:43:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailhost.onramp.net (mailhost.onramp.net [199.1.11.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA00828 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 05:50:34 -0700 Received: from acsdallas.com (a203-49.ppp.dlls.tx.onramp.net [206.50.202.241]) by mailhost.onramp.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA27149 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 07:50:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from JAMES [144.19.62.4] by acs_dc [144.19.62.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 08:01:19 -0500 Received: by JAMES with Microsoft Mail id <01BE9C46.2E29FCE0@JAMES>; Wed, 12 May 1999 07:08:04 -0000 Message-ID: <01BE9C46.2E29FCE0@JAMES> From: James Roberts To: "scalf@utdallas.edu" , "freestyle@footbag.org" , "'Matt Avery'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] dead list and reverse whirls Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:08:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Matt Avery wrote: >Rev. Whirl? Uhh...wouldnt that just make it a butterfly? Hence, butterfly and symposium butterfly? Not the way D does it. It IS a reverse whirl. Sincerely, JR DFC From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 12 16:43:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01069 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:43:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA02661 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 08:01:47 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by theglobe.com; Wed May 12 08:01:04 1999 To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:01:04 -0700 From: "Ian Dubman" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [freestyle] dead list and reverse whirls X-Sender-Ip: 128.206.120.62 Organization: E-Mail @ theglobe.com (http://www.globe-mail.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Good words by list members... >Ken says... >a scorpion's tail is a spinning down double down. Actually, I think Jane had the right idea, just not quite so technical. Actually, I don't think the down double down should be used a tag on the end of spinning for this move. I think it should be spinning double down, as the other would imply that you spun(with bag delayed on foot??), then by some act of god still busted a down double down. Hehe, who cares?? We all know what a scorpion's tail is(or at least what it looks like and/or how it is done). >I haven't seen a gyro barfly yet, but i like the name >"garfield" for it. Me neither...though it seems pretty phat. Garfield?? I am not slamming it--I actually kind of like it. Just wondered how you came about this name. >Also, if a barfly doesn't get a paradox add, then why >does a nuclear set get one? If you are going to >argue that a nuclear set gets a pdx add because >the leg does a full rotation, Well, I just wrote a bit of a comment about this, but I had to erase it because I was using an arguement that is not fully accepted yet--hard to argue theory with another theory. Any philoshophers on the list? Basically, paradox(at least from what I gather) is supoosed to be defined by your body's quick pivot to an direction opposite of the direction your leg was initially travelling--as some have said, an "S" movement(though, I would actually say it is a 'g' movement for the out-in dex--my opinion). Anywho, the amount of dexterity you bust (be it 1, 1.5, or a full 2) doesn't make a difference. Just the movement. Hhmm... Please, don't think I am an opponent of this. I asked the question a thousand times myself and that is one of justifications I received. I totally agree that there is a kink in the system here. Maybe it could be alleviated by saying all "clip>same dex" followed by plants get the paradox. I don't know, my brain is about to run out my ears...boss is yelling and I don't want to think about this anymore. Later, Ian Dubman MUFF From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 12 21:41:25 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA02485 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:41:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA07337 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:54:53 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by theglobe.com; Wed May 12 10:54:07 1999 To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:54:07 -0700 From: "Ian Dubman" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: RE: [freestyle] dead list and reverse whirls X-Sender-Ip: 128.206.120.62 Organization: E-Mail @ theglobe.com (http://www.globe-mail.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Matt Avery wrote: > >>Rev. Whirl? Uhh...wouldnt that just make it a butterfly? Hence, butterfly >and symposium butterfly? JR of DFC down in TX sayz... >Not the way D does it. It IS a reverse whirl. Ian Says... Yup. I agree with JR on this one--it is definitely a rev. whirl. His butterfly and reverse whirl are DISTINCTLY different. That is why I said earlier that any debate on this would be difficult--especially if you haven't seen a rev whirl. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 12 21:41:25 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA02482 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:41:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f249.hotmail.com [209.185.130.214]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA07735 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:12:10 -0700 Received: (qmail 59950 invoked by uid 0); 12 May 1999 18:11:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19990512181139.59949.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 195.173.239.191 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:11:39 PDT X-Originating-IP: [195.173.239.191] From: "Frank Gutowski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Hello out there shredders Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:11:39 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, Wassup all you footbag freaks, I am in Amsterdam right now - and looking to shred across europe this summer. Anyone intersested? let me know. I am in Holland for a little over a month. Then I go to the European Championships - from there I have no plans - give me a direction through footbag. I hope all is well to everyone I know out there. Frank _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 13 00:17:40 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA03192 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 13 May 1999 00:17:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.clearsail.net (mail.clearsail.net [207.252.227.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14807 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:30:54 -0700 Received: from rtgilber (usr101.clearsail.net [207.252.227.101]) by mail.clearsail.net (8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA12788 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:30:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000501be9cc7$763a26a0$02000003@rtgilber> From: "James Gilbert" To: Subject: [freestyle] Drifter Help Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:33:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, how's it going? Hope you all are doing great. Today I hit my first 4 add move! Yah!! I did a pixie butterfly! But anyway, I have some questions about doing a drifter. First of all on the list of all the moves it tells you to quickly plant the setting leg. Say I am doing a drifter starting from a left clipper, am I supposed to quickly plant my left leg after setting, THEN start the mirage dex with my right leg, and then swing my right leg into clipper position and catch the bag? I noticed on the video demo for the move Carol has her right leg already in the air starting to do the dex before she plants her left (setting) leg. OR Is this the way I should try and do it? I have been trying to plant the setting leg before starting the mirade dex but my support leg doesn't get there in time to catch the bag. all input is greatly appreciated Thanks, James Gilbert From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 13 01:54:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA03471 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 13 May 1999 01:54:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f45.hotmail.com [207.82.250.56]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA16907 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:14:48 -0700 Received: (qmail 63759 invoked by uid 0); 13 May 1999 00:14:07 -0000 Message-ID: <19990513001407.63758.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:14:07 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: dogbert@clearsail.net, Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Drifter Help Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:14:07 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hiya. My tips on drifter: 1. Set low. It can be fun to set high and do them, but the most efficient way is to do em low. Set maybe whirl height. 2. Setting foot plants immediately, as the other foot leaves the floor. Imagine you are kicking on a floor with an elctric current, and you can only have one foot on the floor at a time, or else you will be electrocuted. This mentality is also helpful for torques and whirls. 3. After your leg clears the dex, do a little hop off the other leg towards the side you set from. Watch any vid of someone doing a drifter, and you see the all important hop. This helps you get your clipper to the correct side of your body in time. Congrats on the pixie butterfly. As for drifter, don't get too frustrated with it. Along with atom smasher, it is one of the hardest three add tricks out there. Good luck and keep shredding. Ken "ceiling fan" Somolinos nyfd _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 13 01:54:39 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA03475 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 13 May 1999 01:54:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16819; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:09:09 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com (2615) by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id fUTGa16141; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <974d1b58.246b7041@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:01:05 EDT Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle] Laver mods:the second saga. To: scalf@utdallas.edu, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 5/11/99 9:15:11 AM, scalf@utdallas.edu wrote: <> Red is currently kicking in Tevas too... he rocked SoCals last month in them too... ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 13 02:06:08 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA03507 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 13 May 1999 02:06:08 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Josh Pritt Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17836 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:59:46 -0700 Received: from RAMGarden@aol.com (399) by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id zLCCa04196 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:58:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6fb484f9.246b7dbf@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:58:39 EDT Subject: [freestyle] footbag To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org how do I do a leg over? I know its very easy and basic, but help me out! Josh Pritt Oxford AL From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 13 03:04:30 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA03773 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 13 May 1999 03:04:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dept.english.upenn.edu (DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU [130.91.75.246]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA18208 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:29:34 -0700 Received: (from sunilj@localhost) by dept.english.upenn.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) id VAA54710; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:29:22 -0400 From: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani) Message-Id: <199905130129.VAA54710@dept.english.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] footbag To: RAMGarden@aol.com (Josh Pritt) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <6fb484f9.246b7dbf@aol.com> from "Josh Pritt" at May 12, 99 08:58:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org According to Josh Pritt: > > how do I do a leg over? I know its very easy and basic, but help me out! > > Josh Pritt > Oxford AL Hello Josh (wow, another JP in footbag... JPs ROCK!): Before grooving on legover, I would have alternating toe stalls down. Make sure you do a hop in between them. I like to drive up and hop as the bag is leaving my toe, that way gravity is acting on you the same as it is acting on the footbag, it makes the stall much easier. Once you have consecutive alternating toe stalls with this hop down, it is just a point of setting the bag at a comfortable height (try to raise your knee to a comfortable height and attempt to set the bag just below this height), and driving your leg around the bag. Try to dex the bag with your leg instead of your foot, you do not have to go as high and you save time. I am probably not being clear on the set part, but basically what I am trying to say is as you raise your toe to set the bag, hop off of your other foot and start the dexterity (motion of going around the bag). Make sure the set is straight up and you keep your weight forward (over the bag). "There is a tendancy to lean back on these moves... DON'T!" I hope this helps you JP. Sunil From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 13 07:40:25 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA04657 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 13 May 1999 07:40:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA22700 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 23:19:40 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA02802 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 01:19:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx50-40.ix.netcom.com(198.211.45.232) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma002778; Thu May 13 01:19:05 1999 Message-ID: <373A74D6.2B97@utdallas.edu> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 01:44:38 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] footbag References: <199905130129.VAA54710@dept.english.upenn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sunil Jani wrote: > "There is a tendancy to lean back on these moves... DON'T!" > > I hope this helps you JP. > This advice comes straight from the man who made the moves. If you've never been told to STAY OVER THE BAG, then you've never seen "Tricks of the Trade" featuring Kenny Shults. If you want to learn to freestyle, go to the WFA's site (http://www.worldfootbag.com) and order the only instructional footbag video on the market. It is old and cheesy in parts, but it is VITAL for freestylers of all levels. Get the shoes, get a good facile bag, get some shorts, get the video and THEN get serious. Sunil, I'm waiting to see that toe blizzard. You need to watch out for Ian Dubman though... he's got the most wicked toe miraging set - he hit toe blur easily the first time he tried it. I can't wait for worlds. -D DFC From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 13 07:40:50 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA04668 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 13 May 1999 07:40:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA22658 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 23:10:04 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA02148 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 01:09:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx50-40.ix.netcom.com(198.211.45.232) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma002123; Thu May 13 01:09:20 1999 Message-ID: <373A728C.43AC@utdallas.edu> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 01:34:52 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] dead list and reverse whirls References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > >Matt Avery wrote: > > > >>Rev. Whirl? Uhh...wouldnt that just make it a butterfly? Hence, butterfly > >and symposium butterfly? > > Ian Says... > I agree with JR on this one--it is definitely a rev. whirl. His > butterfly and reverse whirl are DISTINCTLY different. That is why I > said earlier that any debate on this would be difficult--especially if > you haven't seen a rev whirl. and D says... woohoo! the list is alive again! Ok. In my mind, the distinction between reverse whirl and a plain ol' same side butterfly is the knee location. Try doing a same side butterfly with your knees together (at least very close together). There you go. That is a reverse whirl. As Jane put it, butterfly is all done with the hips while whirls - and reverse whirls - are done with the knee. Using the same knee positioning, you can do a symp rev whirl. The reason I was asking about the pdx version is that I have never been able to come close to doing that move without using the hips (which makes it an ugly infinity). I would like nothing more than to be able to accentuate the pdx part of that move. If I could do that, I could hit it blurry and pdx symp. Who knows, maybe blurry symp... But, I'm not even sure if the move is possible. See y'all at worlds. -Derric DFC From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 13 16:01:38 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05565 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:01:38 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f269.hotmail.com [207.82.251.160]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA29275 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 08:00:28 -0700 Received: (qmail 29683 invoked by uid 0); 13 May 1999 14:59:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19990513145957.29682.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.69.2 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 13 May 1999 07:59:54 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.69.2] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] dead list and reverse whirls Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:59:54 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org One of my bigest questions for judging freestyle has always been the difference between personal style and uniqueness. For some moves like flux the difference between the hippy style and leggy look very different but are however very similar. For reverse whirl, at least for me the differance is very concrete. If your knee crosses over the bag, it's a butterfly, if not then it's a reverse whirl. This is basically the differance between whirl and mirajing (same sided) cliper (does anyone think this is the same move). I would also think than paradox reverse whirl should exist(I can't do it). Just my humble, and frequently argument causing opinion. -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 13 16:02:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05576 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:02:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05573 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:02:33 GMT Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29444 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 08:04:44 -0700 Received: from [216.111.252.191] (dhcp216-111-252-191.atext.com [216.111.252.191]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06630 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 08:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:06:59 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Footbag on Star Trek Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Last night on the latest Voyager episode involving time travel, Janeway actually talked about the "Pogo Paradox". :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 14 06:06:14 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA08542 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 14 May 1999 06:06:14 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f72.hotmail.com [207.82.250.158]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA05934 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 15:02:02 -0700 Received: (qmail 44852 invoked by uid 0); 13 May 1999 22:01:31 -0000 Message-ID: <19990513220131.44851.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 13 May 1999 15:01:28 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: enlightener@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Phat String Contest Rules Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:01:28 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. I just received Scott Davidson's rules for the Phat Trick constest for some reason, and even though the event for which they were proposed is already concluded, I'd like to make a couple of criticisms on the scoring system. First off, I agree with Dan Kramer, that the contest should be more subjective, instead of just adding up add-values. ripwalk-ripwalk-blur is not nearly as hard as vortex-pdx atom smasher-s+m smasher. Also, the emphasis on adds discourages creativity in the moves. Why risk ending or linking moves with a dragon just because it looks cooler, when you can get the same adds and more control by using a clipper? I also fail to see why the same move on the same side cannot be included twice in a string. If the move is cool enough and difficult enough, then the judges should welcome it. Scorpion tail to inspinning torque to scorpion tail is a phat string by any standard. What makes a string phat is purely subjective, to quantify it and impose arbitrary rules on it kills defeats the purpose of the contest altogether. Ken "cf" Somolinos nyfd _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 14 06:06:17 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA08546 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 14 May 1999 06:06:17 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd98.hotmail.com [207.82.252.162]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA01426 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:35:21 -0700 Received: (qmail 73702 invoked by uid 0); 13 May 1999 18:34:47 -0000 Message-ID: <19990513183447.73701.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.232.145.4 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:34:47 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.232.145.4] From: "keith no-name-given-and-if-he-doesn't-i'll-stop-allowing-him-to-post" To: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu, RAMGarden@aol.com Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] footbag Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:34:47 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org FOR A LEG OVER, YOU STALL THE BAG THE SECOND TIME, (AFTER THE DEX), ON THE SETTING FOOT? IS THERE A DOUBLE LEG OVER? THANX KEITH From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 14 06:36:39 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA08683 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 14 May 1999 06:36:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f177.hotmail.com [209.185.131.240]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA13817 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 22:13:55 -0700 Received: (qmail 26832 invoked by uid 0); 14 May 1999 05:13:25 -0000 Message-ID: <19990514051325.26831.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.156.11.129 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 13 May 1999 22:13:24 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.156.11.129] From: "jon nagela" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Footbag on Star Trek Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:13:24 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Its funny that you mentioned footbag and star trek. Last summer me and some friends were kicking sundays at Oak Street Beach in Chicago and we overheard a conversation between a couple sunning themselves _ it went like this. "Look at that, those people are playing "hackeysack". Oh, I thought that died out in the 80's. Yeah ill bet they are trekkies too". I never got the correlation between kicking and footbag until a couple months ago when I heard star trek talking about a paradox flux it sonds like Kenny Schults must be a trekkie. Later, Jon Nagela >From: Steve Goldberg >To: freestyle@footbag.org >Subject: [freestyle] Footbag on Star Trek >Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:06:59 -0700 > >Last night on the latest Voyager episode involving time travel, >Janeway actually talked about the "Pogo Paradox". :-) > > Steve _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 14 06:37:10 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA08693 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 14 May 1999 06:37:10 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA13998 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 22:28:05 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA13241 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 00:27:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx42-43.ix.netcom.com(207.221.94.107) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013130; Fri May 14 00:27:13 1999 Message-ID: <373BBA17.4909@utdallas.edu> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 00:52:23 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] footbag References: <19990513183447.73701.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org keith no-name-given-and-if-he-doesn't-i'll-stop-allowing-him-to-post wrote: > > FOR A LEG OVER, YOU STALL THE BAG THE SECOND TIME, (AFTER THE DEX), ON THE > SETTING FOOT? IS THERE A DOUBLE LEG OVER? THANX > KEITH Aaaaaa!!! Stop screaming. To answer your question, yes. There is a double legover. Now, about your description of a legover - I think you are missing it. Legover is when you set from a toe, circle the bag with your other leg, and then stall the bag on the leg that just did the dex. So, if you set from a right toe stall, your left leg goes around the bag (either direction), and then you stall the bag on your left toe. Consecutive legovers is a great drill because it works both sides. An around the world (ATW) is when you set, circle, and catch all with the same foot. About the double legover... you might think that a double legover is the same as a legover except you circle the bag twice. This is NOT the case. A double legover is a miraging legover. In other words, set from a right toe, circle the bag from in to out with your left leg, circle the bag from out to in with your right leg, then catch on your right toe. Double legovers can also be set from a clipper. It is the same thing - set, the opposite leg does the first IN dex, your setting leg does the second OUT dex, then you catch it on your original setting foot. Using Job's notation - which is WONDERFUL (everyone should take 5 minutes to learn it) - a double legover is set > op IN [dex] > op OUT [dex] > same toe [del] I'm not sure what you call a set > op IN [dex] > same IN [dex] > same toe [del] or a set > op OUT [dex] > same OUT [dex] > same toe [del] One is a double pickup and one is a double switchover - I think. I'm just not sure which name goes with which move... anyone? -Derric From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat May 15 21:28:43 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13429 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:28:43 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06394 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 22:53:16 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA27796 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 00:53:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx7-17.ix.netcom.com(207.94.122.145) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma027778; Sat May 15 00:52:33 1999 Message-ID: <373D1188.40F3@utdallas.edu> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 01:17:44 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] footbag References: <19990514183814.51481.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org keith jr wrote: > anyway, how do you read the shorthand. i could really use the > help. thanx > To read Job's notation - the best notation currently available - you should go to http://footbag.org/movelist/5-minute-notation.html Everything that you need to know about footbag is on http://footbag.org It might take a little while to find it, but it is there. About the notation... set > op in > op in > op toe is beautiful. You can imagine this move set from either toe, either clipper, either outside, inside, heel, dragon, whatever. It is a blur no matter how you look at it. And that notation is perfectly descriptive of the technical aspect of the move. And, it is shorter than saying set from right foot clipper, circle the bag from in to out with your left leg, circle the bag from in to out with your right leg, stall on your left toe. This longhand version doesnt' help when it comes to doing blur on the other side, or from any other set. Job's notation does. EVERYONE should take 5 minutes to learn the notation. It helps save time and it eliminates confusion about moves. Hope this helps. -Derric DFC From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat May 15 21:28:45 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13433 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:28:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail2.gmx.net (qmailr@mail2.gmx.net [194.221.183.62]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA10085 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 05:19:20 -0700 Received: (qmail 17466 invoked by uid 0); 15 May 1999 12:19:08 -0000 Received: from dip-053.hbg.dinx.de (HELO internet) (195.2.169.53) by mail2.gmx.net with SMTP; 15 May 1999 12:19:08 -0000 Message-ID: <002a01be9ecd$280edea0$35a902c3@internet> From: "Andreas Man-With-No-Last-Name-Man-I-Hate-This" To: Subject: [freestyle] Ripwalk Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 14:02:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01BE9EDB.9E1427A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BE9EDB.9E1427A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi guys, anyone got some tips on a ripwalk? ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BE9EDB.9E1427A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi guys,
 
anyone got some tips on a = ripwalk?
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BE9EDB.9E1427A0-- From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat May 15 21:28:28 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13423 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:28:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f78.hotmail.com [209.185.131.141]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA25548 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:21:30 -0700 Received: (qmail 5460 invoked by uid 0); 14 May 1999 18:20:59 -0000 Message-ID: <19990514182059.5459.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.156.11.243 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:20:58 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.156.11.243] From: "jon nagela" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Phat String Contest Rules Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:20:58 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Whats up kickers, I hope you are all getting out there and kicking. I agree that the Phat trick contestshould be more subjective. I was in Scott's add based phat trick contest and it caused problems when me and Sebastian from Montreal kept having to go extra rounds because we were hitting our 4 add moves. It seemed like it was going to never end so eventually we settled it by having us combo the only move which we had both hit (pixie butterfly) and see who got the best combo. Keep in mind that this was in the single Phat trick event. Even though there may be some disputes I totally agree that it should not be add based, adds supposedly dont denote difficulty anyway. Later, Jon Nagela >From: "KeN Somolinos" >To: enlightener@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org >Subject: Re: [freestyle] Phat String Contest Rules >Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:01:28 PDT > >Hey all. >I just received Scott Davidson's rules for the Phat Trick constest for some >reason, and even though the event for which they were proposed is already >concluded, I'd like to make a couple of criticisms on the scoring system. >First off, I agree with Dan Kramer, that the contest should be more >subjective, instead of just adding up add-values. ripwalk-ripwalk-blur is >not nearly as hard as vortex-pdx atom smasher-s+m smasher. Also, the >emphasis on adds discourages creativity in the moves. Why risk ending or >linking moves with a dragon just because it looks cooler, when you can get >the same adds and more control by using a clipper? I also fail to see why >the same move on the same side cannot be included twice in a string. If >the >move is cool enough and difficult enough, then the judges should welcome >it. > Scorpion tail to inspinning torque to scorpion tail is a phat string by >any standard. What makes a string phat is purely subjective, to quantify it >and impose arbitrary rules on it kills defeats the purpose of the contest >altogether. >Ken "cf" Somolinos >nyfd > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat May 15 21:28:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13418 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:28:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Damon Mathews Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29837 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:54:24 -0700 Received: from Damonmath@aol.com (14425) by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id fRIIa24274; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:50:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <939c5a3e.246de6a9@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:50:49 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] footbag To: scalf@utdallas.edu, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org set > op IN [dex] > same IN [dex] > same toe [del] and set > op OUT [dex] > same OUT [dex] > same toe [del] are both double switchovers clip > op IN [dex] > same IN [dex] > same toe [del] is a double pickup Demon Damon Mathews From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat May 15 21:30:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13465 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:30:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from snyoneab.oneonta.edu (SYSTEM@snyoneab.oneonta.edu [137.141.15.12]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA11688 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 08:40:28 -0700 Received: from snyoneva.cc.oneonta.edu by snyoneva.cc.oneonta.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #32722) id <01JB8424OOJ48Y4ZUZ@snyoneva.cc.oneonta.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:40:48 EDT Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 11:40:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Busse Subject: [freestyle] anyone kicking near albany,ny today? To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Trey anastasio from phish is going to be playing at the palace theater today. if anyone is interested in coming out, i'm sure that someone will be kicking around somewhere. so please come down and have a good time before the show! jim busse From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 17 16:53:22 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03546 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:53:22 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail1.gmx.net (mail1.gmx.net [194.221.183.61]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA13858 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 06:27:26 -0700 Received: (qmail 25113 invoked by uid 0); 17 May 1999 13:27:21 -0000 Received: from dip-034.hbg.dinx.de (HELO internet) (195.2.169.34) by mail1.gmx.net with SMTP; 17 May 1999 13:27:21 -0000 Message-ID: <000f01bea068$ff84f8a0$22a902c3@internet> From: "Andreas Schneidt" To: "Freestyle List" Subject: [freestyle] Break In Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 15:27:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEA079.C21B2B40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEA079.C21B2B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I'm looking for funny pics of break in (like people parking their car on = the bag or so...) Perhaps anyone got such stuff on his computer...please send it to me ...would be great. thanx Andreas Schneidt ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEA079.C21B2B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,
I'm looking for funny pics of break = in (like=20 people parking their car on the bag or so...)
Perhaps anyone got such stuff on his = computer...please send it to me
...would be great.
 
thanx
 
 
Andreas = Schneidt
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEA079.C21B2B40-- From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 17 16:53:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03537 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:53:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f188.hotmail.com [209.185.130.98]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA06397 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 20:50:27 -0700 Received: (qmail 49525 invoked by uid 0); 17 May 1999 03:51:11 -0000 Message-ID: <19990517035111.49524.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.156.12.131 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 16 May 1999 20:51:10 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.156.12.131] From: "jon nagela" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Warming up for worlds in Chicago Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 20:51:10 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Whats up kickers! I am just writing to let you know we are shredding hard in preparation for worlds this year. Wewere kicking today at the Windy City Hempfest and Sean Wingert was pulling really strong toe blurs and some long strings of technically perfect moves- he also has huge pixie sets. I sealed my first ever 5 add move, the paradox flux(Nuclear osis) YEAH!! I also learned Royale today(paradox reverse drifter)- hit it 3 times, and almost hit another paradox atom smasher! I landed one friday. I think one reason that I might suddenly be hitting all these new moves is these phat new Richard Abshire bags that everone is using here, I brought a fattie red and yellow one out today and somehow Matt Cherney lost it. It may have fallen out of one of the holes in his spandex shorts when he ran up on stage and danced with the band for 10 minutes until they kicked him off. Later, Jon Nagela _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 17 16:53:19 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03542 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:53:19 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Damon Mathews Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA13814 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 06:24:29 -0700 Received: from Damonmath@aol.com (14428) by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id fJPQa03058; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:21:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <89e108cc.247171ef@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 09:21:51 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] footbag To: scalf@utdallas.edu, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org set > op in > op in > op toe is beautiful. You can imagine this move set from either toe, either clipper, either outside, inside, heel, dragon, whatever. It is a blur no matter how you look at it. If it is set from the toe is the move still paradox? Demon Damon Mathews From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 17 17:53:48 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03890 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 17 May 1999 17:53:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA17468 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:29:18 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA05156 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:29:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx45-48.ix.netcom.com(198.211.44.112) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005062; Mon May 17 11:28:20 1999 Message-ID: <3740498B.3EEA@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:53:31 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] footbag References: <89e108cc.247171ef@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Damonmath@aol.com wrote: > > set > op in > op in > op toe > > is beautiful. You can imagine this move set from either toe, either > clipper, either outside, inside, heel, dragon, whatever. It is a blur > no matter how you look at it. > > If it is set from the toe is the move still paradox? > Nope. By the current definition of paradox, you have to set a move from x-body. Now, if you set with a x-bdy toe, x-bdy heel, x-bdy sole, etc... that would be pdx. If you are asking if toe set moves - or outside set moves - feel pdx (which I think you are), the answer is yes. To me, a toe blur feels MUCH more pdx than a clipper set blur. But, you have to draw the line somewhere. Legbeater and smear are NOT pdx by any stretch of the imagination. Atom smasher - maybe. If anyone doubts what I am saying here, try a pdx torque, a regular torque and a toe set torque. Which one of these three feels different? The regular torque doesn't require and hellish back breaking to hit while pdx and toe set feel almost exactly the same. Try a pixie torque and tell me if that doesn't feel pdx... Since pdx is obviously so hard to define, why do we name a set after pdx moves? Why does 'blurry' imply pdx? This only makes it hard to decide what blurry means because no one knows what pdx means. I say that blurry should be used to mean 'steeping opposite side' not 'stepping pdx'. Paradox has its place. But, that place is in add counting - not naming moves. Comments? -Derric DFC From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 17 20:03:30 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA04434 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 17 May 1999 20:03:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19109 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:44:12 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA19826 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:43:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx7-50.ix.netcom.com(207.94.122.178) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma019702; Mon May 17 12:43:18 1999 Message-ID: <37405B1F.1885@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 13:08:31 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Ripwalk References: <002a01be9ecd$280edea0$35a902c3@internet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andreas Man-With-No-Last-Name-Man-I-Hate-This wrote: > > Hi guys, > > anyone got some tips on a ripwalk? Yep. Scott Davidson does in the new issue of Kicker's Quarterly. I'm not sure of their web page, but if you search for Schwa Footbag or Kicker's Quarterly, I'm sure you'll find it. Until then, you can just try to get the set up between your knees. It is very important to remember the fundamental rule of footbag - the bag goes straight up and down. So, try to get that first dexterity as the bag is going straight up. If you can get both feet on the ground while the bag is directly in front of you (waist level), finishing the move is only a butterfly. Practice your infinities. Practice stepping butterflies. After that, get the set up and finish with that infinity that you have been practicing. Hope this helps. -D DFC From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 17 20:03:29 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA04430 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 17 May 1999 20:03:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19046 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:40:05 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA18843 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:39:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx7-50.ix.netcom.com(207.94.122.178) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma018631; Mon May 17 12:38:13 1999 Message-ID: <374059EE.17EF@utdallas.edu> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 13:03:26 -0500 From: Derric Scalf Reply-To: scalf@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Break In References: <000f01bea068$ff84f8a0$22a902c3@internet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andreas Schneidt wrote: > > Hi all, > I'm looking for funny pics of break in (like people parking their car > on the bag or so...) > Perhaps anyone got such stuff on his computer...please send it to me > ...would be great. > It is important to note that if you are breaking in a bag by running over it with a car, that you are not using a good footbag. All newcomers to the sport use those big knit rasta hemp sacks. Those are ok for playing hacky sack (as opposed to footbag freestyle), but if you want to do any of the tricks that people are talking about on this list, you do NEED a decent footbag. If a car were to touch a real bag, it would be sad, not funny. I have known many players that watch footbaggers with awe, but they can't seem to learn any of the moves. This is because they lack the proper equipment. To improve at footbag, you NEED a good facile bag which you can purchase at tournaments (this is the best way because you can see it before you buy it) or over the internet http://www.worldfootbag.com Don't get frustrated because you are tring to stall a knit bag. Get a real bag and see how much your game improves. About the pictures, no. I don't have any funny ones yet. If we ever get around to breaking in a friend's digital camera, we should have quite a few photos up on the Dallas Footbag Club website soon. I'll let you know when this happens. -Derric DFC From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 17 21:30:15 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19090 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 17 May 1999 21:30:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA20809 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:11:18 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by theglobe.com; Mon May 17 12:11:06 1999 To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 12:11:06 -0700 From: "Ian Dubman" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [freestyle] footbag X-Sender-Ip: 128.206.120.62 Organization: E-Mail @ theglobe.com (http://www.globe-mail.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org -- On Mon, 17 May 1999 09:21:51 Damon Mathews wrote: >set > op in > op in > op toe > >is beautiful. You can imagine this move set from either toe, either clipper, either outside, inside, heel, dragon, whatever. It is a blur no matter how you look at it. > >If it is set from the toe is the move still paradox? No, it is not. And you lose an add as a result. I personally feel that it is more difficult than its four-add clipper-set counterpart--my opinion. But, as with atomsmasher and a couple others, noone is going to rip on you for going the toe route--in fact they may like it better, as it is a bit more unique. Ian D. MUFF "Free web-based email available now at http://www.theglobe.com" From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 18 06:10:47 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA21522 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 May 1999 06:10:47 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA25405 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 15:21:28 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by theglobe.com; Mon May 17 15:20:46 1999 To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 15:20:46 -0700 From: "Ian Dubman" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [freestyle] Ripwalk X-Sender-Ip: 128.206.120.62 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -tips on a ripwalk? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Yep. Scott Davidson does in the new issue of Kicker's Quarterly. I'm >not sure of their web page, but if you search for Schwa Footbag or Kicker's Quarterly... Since Derric beat me to the punch on the my last post... Look here...good site. Ugh. Sound like Tonto. Late, Ian From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 18 06:11:03 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA21533 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 May 1999 06:11:03 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f89.hotmail.com [207.82.250.195]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA23133 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:00:56 -0700 Received: (qmail 97732 invoked by uid 0); 17 May 1999 21:00:26 -0000 Message-ID: <19990517210026.97731.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 192.188.143.177 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:00:25 PDT X-Originating-IP: [192.188.143.177] From: "Chris Weber" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] shoes? Mods>blah.... Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 14:00:25 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey I need information on shoes. I am currently kicking in just some Airwalk ("19oz."--stlye name). I think that these shoes rock they are perfectly flat in all areas, and since I am fairly new to the sport I fail to see the purpose in modifying the shoes, because once you do that you might as well just put little cups on your shoes. I have become aware of the importance of equiptment, i have a juice and am loving it to death with every gentle touch. I need to know if anyone else has these shoes or any comperable and i want to know if the Lavers are just a whole step ahead or if there is any resemblance. I want to get every advantage possible.... Also any tips on butterflys: and oh yeah i don't have tricks of the trade due to lack of fundage in that area. let me know if anyone can help. misfit skunk From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 18 06:11:05 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA21544 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 May 1999 06:11:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matt Cross Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA24055 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:21:52 -0700 Received: from Problems1@aol.com (92) by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id zMLGa27691 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 17:20:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42beb72c.2471e21e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 17:20:30 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Break In (ARGUMENT) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all, I've been playing with knit bags for about 4 years now, and after finding a really good breaking in process, I think it's safe to say a facile bag wouldn't improve my playing style, mostly because I've played with them before. I seriously do much better with a well-broken-in knit bag, mostly due to the weight. Sometimes I'll even add some BBs to it. However, I agree with you on the hemp part; those take forever break in, and when they eventually do, the stitch is too wide, and the beads come out in all directions. POINT BEING: A good knit bag is just as good as a good facile bag, just like the right tevas can be perfect, if not better, substitutes for Lavers Matt Cross (Sorry about the "NoLastName" thing, that's my last name) From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 18 06:11:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA21559 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 May 1999 06:11:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f71.hotmail.com [207.82.250.157]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA29614 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 18:55:38 -0700 Received: (qmail 10489 invoked by uid 0); 18 May 1999 01:55:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19990518015507.10482.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 161.184.24.234 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 17 May 1999 18:55:07 PDT X-Originating-IP: [161.184.24.234] From: "matt dick" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] mirage help Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 18:55:07 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all i've had one heck of a week i finally started hitting some leg dexterity moves and i am soooooooooooo happy. I also have hit a couple osis'. yippeee!!!! Anywway I was in some need of advice, with muy dexterities that i've been hitting (leg over, mirage, around the world etc.) i can kick the sack back into play but i'm having seroius problems delaying after the dexterity. I have lavers and can hit toe stalls rather consistant. I use a facile juice bag and have a Dirtbag on the way. Does anyone out there have any suggestions on how i can nail the delays and start stringin some moves together?? all input is appreciated. thanx MaTt ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 18 06:21:06 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA21638 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 May 1999 06:21:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA32654 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:21:47 -0700 Received: from [216.111.252.191] (dhcp216-111-252-191.atext.com [216.111.252.191]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11558; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <42beb72c.2471e21e@aol.com> References: <42beb72c.2471e21e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 22:22:03 -0700 To: Matt Cross From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Break In (ARGUMENT) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 5:20 PM -0400 5/17/99, Matt Cross wrote: >POINT BEING: A good knit bag is just as good as a good facile >bag Hah hah hah hah hah hah hah... Good one. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 18 08:24:10 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA22005 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 May 1999 08:24:10 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f82.hotmail.com [207.82.250.188]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA00982 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 00:20:34 -0700 Received: (qmail 97685 invoked by uid 0); 18 May 1999 07:19:18 -0000 Message-ID: <19990518071918.97684.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 May 1999 00:19:17 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: badmonkey_911@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] shoes? Mods-blah.... Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 00:19:17 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all. Chris asked: I am currently kicking in just >some >Airwalk ("19oz."--stlye name). I think that these shoes rock they are >perfectly flat in all areas, and since I am fairly new to the sport I fail >to see the purpose in modifying the shoes, because once you do that you >might as well just put little cups on your shoes. OKie, a few points to be made here. Airwalks can be fun as they do have many a flat surface, but since they are made out of thick thick cowhide, you cannot feel a bag through the leather, and so your connection with the bag is decreased. This will affect your control. The only real "advantages" airwalks have over lavers, are the landing pads they call heels and soles. Go crazy with them unusual surfaces. As for the laver toe modifications, yes, they do provide a catching cup. While the side barriers help beginners learn how to toe stall, the true advantage of lacing and modifying the toe box, is to increase the surface area of your toe. After a while, your bag won't make contact with the side barriers, so the "cup effect" is rendered useless anyway. Many intermediate and advanced stylers cut the last couple eyelets off anyway, to facilitate their pixie and fairy sets. The only real purpose of laver modifications are to increase the flat area on your toe where you can ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! stall, and to remove the thick canvas layer inside the shoe, so your toes and insteps can be more sensitive to the feel of the bag. Ceiling Fan nyfd _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 18 17:41:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA24510 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 May 1999 17:41:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA06387 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 06:04:18 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by theglobe.com; Tue May 18 06:03:43 1999 To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 06:03:43 -0700 From: "Ian Dubman" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [freestyle] Break In (ARGUMENT) X-Sender-Ip: 128.206.120.62 Organization: E-Mail @ theglobe.com (http://www.globe-mail.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>POINT BEING: A good knit bag is just as good as a good facile >>bag > >Hah hah hah hah hah hah hah... Good one. :-) I was searching for a tactful response to say that I disagreed, but I think Steve pretty much answered it to the the "T". Late Ian "Free web-based email available now at http://www.theglobe.com" From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 18 17:41:25 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA24515 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 May 1999 17:41:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from postoffice2.direcpc.com (mail.direcpc.com [198.77.116.30]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA04991 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 04:43:54 -0700 Received: from hh1114112 ([206.71.114.112]) by postoffice2.direcpc.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-45425U50000L50000S0) with SMTP id AAA16948; Tue, 18 May 1999 07:44:41 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990518074207.0093cab0@mail.direcpc.com> X-Sender: mavery@mail.direcpc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 07:46:41 -0700 To: Matt Cross From: Matt Avery Subject: Re: [freestyle] Break In (ARGUMENT) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <42beb72c.2471e21e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Matt Cross said: > A good knit bag is just as good as a good facile bag. I hope you are just playing around...if not, I laugh. Are you saying that the bags are equally good when just kicking and keeping control of the bag, or that the bags shred ( not just ATWs and mirages...) equally good? Maybe the facile bag you got was one hard ass juice ( got one a year ago) that you never tried to break in....ya know, it helps to break them in.... Matt From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 18 18:15:38 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24814 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:15:38 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from fastcart.com ([209.32.190.67]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10767 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:12:44 -0700 Received: from qbert [209.32.190.11] by fastcart.com (SMTPD32-5.01) id AEE7607D024A; Tue, 18 May 1999 12:09:59 CDT X-Sender: dan@po.fastcart.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 12:17:37 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Dan Chick Subject: Re: [freestyle] Break In (ARGUMENT) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: <199905181209.SM00227@qbert> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org My first tourney (montreal 93) I used a Sipa. And believe it or not I made the intermediate cut. And nobody could believe that I was using a Sipa. People offered to let me use their Juice bags but I wasn't comfortable with kicking 'em yet. So I used my old knit bag and threw all my old high school tricks (handstand neck catch anyone?). That said, that was the last time I ever kicked a knit bag when there were alternatives... Dan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 18 20:55:30 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA25574 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 18 May 1999 20:55:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Damon Mathews Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14808 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 12:55:29 -0700 Received: from Damonmath@aol.com (8072) by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id aRCKa02571; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:53:17 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Break In (ARGUMENT) To: dan@footbag.net, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I've seen a few sipas that kept their shape well enough to do blurs, and stuff. But overall, facile is the king. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 19 06:33:53 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28259 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 19 May 1999 06:33:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web210.mail.yahoo.com (web210.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.110]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA25285 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 20:30:23 -0700 Message-ID: <19990519032941.16546.rocketmail@web210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.93.99.118] by web210.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 18 May 1999 20:29:41 PDT Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 20:29:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Vern DeHaven Subject: [freestyle] Name it in 4 adds... To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey 'stylers, Hit something I hadn't tried before today, the modest pixie leg-over. (Is it supposed to feel harder than a pixie butterfly?) My real Q's about a move I can't find on the list @ footbag.org. Looks a lot like a Dyno, except it's set by the same leg doing the dex. I'm gonna try Job's notation: clip > same out [dex] > in-spin [bod] > same clip [xbd][del] In English, set from left clipper, circle the bag from out to in with the left leg, spin to the right, and cach the bag on the left clipper again. Is this thing named? How about "Dino" (Dee-know) if it isn't? I know everyone hates the outside set, but this move is pretty cool when set from a right outside delay. (Or would this be considered another move?) Vern P.S. After having my Lavers for about a year, I finally bothered to cut the canvas and the first eyeholes out of the shoes. Much better! Still, I'm becoming a fan of Tevas... === Gravity is a wonderful bend of time. Just ask someone who shreds. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 19 06:35:15 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28278 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 19 May 1999 06:35:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from alpha1.albany.edu (SYSTEM@alpha1.cnsvax.albany.edu [169.226.1.25]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19086 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 16:09:22 -0700 Received: from cnsvax.albany.edu by cnsvax.albany.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #35970) id <01JBCQNFP7AU8WWG77@cnsvax.albany.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:11:05 EDT Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 19:11:04 -0400 (EDT) From: cheryl renodin Subject: Re: [freestyle] Break In (ARGUMENT) In-reply-to: <4.1.19990518074207.0093cab0@mail.direcpc.com> To: Matt Avery Cc: Matt Cross , freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Is that why Ive been doing this for years and I still suck?? Whew, thanks for the info, ill get another bag and see if i can become a superstar. On Tue, 18 May 1999, Matt Avery wrote: > Matt Cross said: > > > A good knit bag is just as good as a good facile bag. > > I hope you are just playing around...if not, I laugh. Are you saying that > the bags are equally good when just kicking and keeping control of the bag, > or that the bags shred ( not just ATWs and mirages...) equally good? Maybe > the facile bag you got was one hard ass juice ( got one a year ago) that > you never tried to break in....ya know, it helps to break them in.... > > Matt > From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 19 06:55:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28342 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 19 May 1999 06:55:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f301.hotmail.com [207.82.251.214]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA27130 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 22:53:04 -0700 Received: (qmail 73261 invoked by uid 0); 19 May 1999 05:52:34 -0000 Message-ID: <19990519055234.73260.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.148.217.213 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 May 1999 22:52:33 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.148.217.213] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: vernfd@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Name it in 4 adds... Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 22:52:33 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all. Vern asked about: > >clip > same out [dex] > in-spin [bod] > same clip >[xbd][del] > >In English, set from left clipper, circle the bag from >out to in with the left leg, spin to the right, and >cach the bag on the left clipper again. > Depending what part of your leg does the dex, it is either a corkscrew, or a dyno set from the other side. Sorry, no pdx given. Ken 'c-fan' somolinos nyfd _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 20 06:07:20 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA00943 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 20 May 1999 06:07:20 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09488 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 13:10:05 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #33464) with SMTP id <0FBZ00701XBYYC@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 19 May 1999 14:09:34 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:09:33 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] Does BAP rule? To: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have a friend who has been kicking now for about 4 to 5 months and honestly he blows my mind. He is already hitting pixies, legovers, mirages (both directions), butterflies, double atw, smears, pixie legovers, pixie butterfly on occasion, and a bunch of other moves. Now the other day he had a negative experience. He was kicking in a circle of 5, 3 of which were BAP. Back track a little bit and he had been there before most of those people had shown up. Then when the senior member in the group showed up he made the rule that no one in the circle could tilt. Now I am familiar with the unwritten rule of no guilting in a BAP circle though he was not. I also was not there to explain it to him. Anyhow I was absolutely infuriated to find out that he was not allowed to continue playing the bag if he tilted. He's not as good as a BAP member, but better than most I've seen at 4-5 months, and yes he tilts in order to link strings of sometimes 15 to 20 tricks. BAP to me has always seemed like an HONORED position to hold and one which I had hoped to become a part of some day, and one which each person in it should be thankful to have. I know the rules have changed since my first "Hacky Sack" Brand footbag, but since when do they involve excluding having fun because you aren't as good as the next person? Sincerely, Brad Kaplan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 20 06:37:01 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA01049 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 20 May 1999 06:37:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01046 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 06:37:00 GMT Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA21138 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 22:39:26 -0700 Received: from [216.111.252.191] (dhcp216-111-252-191.atext.com [216.111.252.191]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23539 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 22:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:39:35 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Does BAP rule? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:09 PM -0600 5/19/99, KAPLAN BRADLEY M wrote: > I have a friend who has been kicking now for about 4 to 5 months and >honestly he blows my mind. We all have friends like that in this sport. New players are so exciting to watch develop. And it seems like every set of new players develops that much faster. However, in the new skool, they seem to be about it in a wierd way; starting with 4-add moves when they can't always link together three mirages. Even-sidedness, control, and style are key. Adds are just a bonus. > Now the other day he had a negative experience. Compared to net, I'd say his experience was good. :-) You should see how exclusive some of those self-proclaimed "pro" net players are. Especially here in the Bay Area. >He was kicking in a >circle of 5, 3 of which were BAP. Well, that leaves only a few possibilities. :-) >Then when the senior >member in the group showed up he made the rule that no one in the circle >could tilt. I have mixed feelings on that. It's not like they were saying he couldn't play; just that he needed to pass if he couldn't control the bag. It seems like a reasonable pressure to put on a new player to try to improve his control (so he can focus on really solidifying those 2-add and 3-add moves before really trying to throw in 4- and 5-add moves to show off what he can hit). Of course, not knowing who this guy is, I'm not disrespecting him at all. I'm just saying how it is. >Now I am familiar with the unwritten rule of no guilting in a >BAP circle though he was not. No, no, no. A circle is not a BAP circle when there are non-BAP members in the circle. And there is no general rule that non-BAP members can't kick with BAP members. So, that said, when BAP members are in *any* circles, *they* are precluded from guilting (well, that pretty much applies to non-BAP experienced players as well). But they never tell other players that they need be guilt-free (except by way of motivating them if they think they're ready). This sport is about developing new players and I'd say if anyone does that, it's BAP (by providing models of excellence in freestyle skill, and by demonstrating a certain style and culture that is motivational and that helps create new BAP members). > Anyhow I was absolutely infuriated to find out that he was not >allowed to continue playing the bag if he tilted. Well, you have to think of it this way: a freestyle circle works the same way no matter who is in it. Everyone gets his turn at the bag, and if he drops it or loses control, his turn is over. Sometimes he'll get a rebate if the next guy is feeling generous, but in general, this is how it works. However, with *really* good players (like BAP), it's easy to do trick after trick after trick (and kick after kick after kick) without ever really risking dropping the bag. So, with just this simple rule system, a good player might keep the bag forever. Since drops are pretty far into the strings if you're doing easy moves, better players did two things to improve the flow and quality of play: (1) They required that *they* focus on doing hard tricks, having the side-effect of shortening their strings; and (2) They considered any "loss of control" as equivalent to a "drop" in the sense that their turn was over and it was time to pass. It's #2 that's relevant here, not #1. The BAP folks aren't saying an up-and-coming player has to do hard tricks (1), but instead, that they must pass when they lose control (2). How do you define "loss of control" for different levels of players? Certainly, your friend can hit hard tricks. But clearly he can't string together long strings of those hard tricks. In fact, it seems clear he can't even go very long tilt-free. The concept of "tilt" is key to freestyle: what we strive for is long, connected strings, that show control through diverse tricks. Balance, good sets, etc., are all key to a trick. No trick is good if you can't control the set out of it. Freestyle is about linking. A tilt is a way to avoid having to link and generally indicates a loss of control. (This applies to a particular style of play, advocated by the BAP, and clearly something that your friend is trying to learn. Not all circles have to work this way. But if you long to be in BAP, or you want to string together 4-add tricks, you need to follow the regimen or you're not doing yourself any favors.) So, you ask, what's the harm in telling players like your friend that he has to pass if he tilts? I think there's little or no harm, as long as they understand what's being said. Requiring tilt-free play is really just saying, "Look, dude, if you want to get better you need to start linking. Your 3-add moves are cool, but if you can't control your sets out of them, or do them from sets off other tricks, you should really focus on your linking skills. So, bring the add level down for the rest of this shred, and start trying to link and see how long you can make your strings. This will improve your game." Maybe they just didn't say it that way, but I guarantee you that is what they were thinking. I guarantee it. >He's not as good as a >BAP member, but better than most I've seen at 4-5 months, and yes he >tilts in order to link strings of sometimes 15 to 20 tricks. There you go. Point made. His strings shouldn't be so long until he can control the bag. That said, however, the goal of freestyle circles is fun (first), self-improvement (second), and motivation (third). If a circle experience doesn't have these (in that order), then it ain't cool. But I wanted you to have a little more context so that you could better interpret that situation. Hopefully your friend will understand as well, that this is really not disrespectful, but a tool for him to get better. (What better motivation to learn to link tricks together than to be told he needs to really focus on it.) Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 20 17:59:48 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02933 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:59:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f73.hotmail.com [209.185.131.136]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA32085 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:21:50 -0700 Received: (qmail 6539 invoked by uid 0); 20 May 1999 16:21:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19990520162120.6538.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.156.11.4 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:21:19 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.156.11.4] From: "jon nagela" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Name it in 4 adds... Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:21:19 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I thought that the move vern was describing was a refraction set from the clipper, am I wrong? Jon Nagela >From: "KeN Somolinos" >To: vernfd@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org >Subject: Re: [freestyle] Name it in 4 adds... >Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 22:52:33 PDT > > >Hi all. >Vern asked about: >> >>clip > same out [dex] > in-spin [bod] > same clip >>[xbd][del] >> >>In English, set from left clipper, circle the bag from >>out to in with the left leg, spin to the right, and >>cach the bag on the left clipper again. >> >Depending what part of your leg does the dex, it is either a corkscrew, or >a >dyno set from the other side. Sorry, no pdx given. >Ken 'c-fan' somolinos >nyfd > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 21 04:02:39 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA05507 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 21 May 1999 04:02:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13926; Thu, 20 May 1999 18:16:50 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com (8076) by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id zIAWa15511; Thu, 20 May 1999 21:15:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6846c2eb.24760dad@aol.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 21:15:25 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Does BAP rule? To: brat@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Word up Steve. ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 21 04:22:47 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA05584 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 21 May 1999 04:22:47 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f51.hotmail.com [209.185.131.114]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA16080 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 20:17:56 -0700 Received: (qmail 31594 invoked by uid 0); 21 May 1999 03:21:43 -0000 Message-ID: <19990521032143.31593.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.251.80.214 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 20 May 1999 20:21:38 PDT X-Originating-IP: [206.251.80.214] From: "Ahren Gehrman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Does BAP rule? Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 20:21:38 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fellow Shredders, How's it going? Haven't talked to you guys for a while. I've been sidelined because of an injury and won't make it to Worlds (Westerns yes 'cause I'll be living in SF in a week). I'll be kicking by mid-summer though. Anyway, I feel the need to address this issue about BAP rules and what not, as I am a member of the Big Add Posse. First of all, the point of the BAP is to push the game of freestyle to new levels and to inspire those who are not at those levels to practice. The BAP is what inspired me to get better, and as far as I can tell, it's inspired many others. Also it's supposed to be supportive to other kickers. Bad, or good. If anybody has ever been treated poorly by any BAP members I'm dissapointed. However, you can't judge a whole group by a few members. We make people Posse when they become really good freestylers, not when they become really nice people. This case does not sound like a mistreatment, however. The reason the Posse members in the circle said whoever had to kick without tilting was to push that player to try harder things. Not to make him feel bad or just be mean. If they told him to get rid of one adds or two adds or whatever, it's cause they thought he was ready to. They could tell he was on the verge of that next level. That's all. I may be wrong, but this is the case with what I've seen in my experiences. Well, hope I cleared this up at least a little. If not then you can ask me uhh, whatever you feel like asking me. Torch _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 21 05:14:10 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA05743 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 21 May 1999 05:14:10 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ares.flash.net (ares.flash.net [209.30.0.41]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA16784 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 21:11:09 -0700 Received: from flash.net (ip210.dallas13.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.164.210]) by ares.flash.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27933 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 23:11:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3744DE00.6B780EE1@flash.net> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:16:00 -0500 From: Dan Eaton X-Sender: "Dan Eaton" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Does BAP rule? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve Goldberg wrote: > > So, you ask, what's the harm in telling players like your friend that > he has to pass if he tilts? I think there's little or no harm, as > long as they understand what's being said. Requiring tilt-free play > is really just saying, "Look, dude, if you want to get better you > need to start linking. Your 3-add moves are cool, but if you can't > control your sets out of them, or do them from sets off other tricks, > you should really focus on your linking skills. So, bring the add > level down for the rest of this shred, and start trying to link and > see how long you can make your strings. This will improve your game." > Maybe they just didn't say it that way, but I guarantee you that is > what they were thinking. I guarantee it. > I appreciate Steve taking the time to explain this because like many relatively new freestylers, I was not aware of this. To be honest I don't know what a "tilt" or "guiltless" really means. I am unfamiliar with quite a bit of the jargon that goes with freestyle. I don't even know where to go to learn it. I just know that if I had been in the situation described without the explanation you have provided I would have assumed that these guys were just arbitrarily enforcing some exclusive and elitist rule to chase me away from the circle simply because I was not as good. This seems to have been the reaction of the player involved. If the purpose of enforcing a rule such as this is truly to aid in the development of a player, doesn't it seem worthwhile to explain this to the player. If the explanation you gave had been provided to this player at the time this situation occurred, an unfortunate misunderstanding would have been avoided. My whole point is that the rule and its enforcement is not a problem. I understand the rule (now, after getting Steve's explanation) and certainly see the benefit as a player. The problem is that without the explanation there is simply no way that a new player is not going to misunderstand and get turned off by it. Spending a couple of minutes explaining things that new players may not understand can make all of the difference. Thanks again for taking the time to explain some of this unwritten stuff to those of us less informed. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 21 05:54:49 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA05909 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 21 May 1999 05:54:49 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA17576 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 21:46:07 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with ESMTP id <19990521044605.UTAL13558.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Thu, 20 May 1999 21:46:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3744EAFA.7DC61356@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 00:11:22 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KAPLAN BRADLEY M CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Does BAP rule? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Does BAP rule? Yes! About this whole tiltless thing, I have to say that I agree totally with Steve. The early days of freestyle consisted of people standing around in a circle kicking a Hacky Sack. This form of "footbag" still exists at concerts and stuff and is the only form of kicking that many people have seen. Odds are that some people on this very list *still* haven't seen what freestyle has become. Take for instance the dude talking about a Sipa being as good as a facile bag. No disrespect intended here, but you really need to SEE freestyle. The days of standing around kicking a bean bag are long gone. Anyway, since people started out kicking the bag for hours and days and weeks and years, they got good at it. Then, Kenny decided to make up some tricks. There weren't many tricks, so people did the same tricks over and over for years. They got good at these tricks. You can always tell the old skool players by the quality of play. People that started out 15-20 years ago don't drop the bag. They make freestyle look good - crowd-pleasing if you will... So, now there are a LOT of tricks. People are getting facile bags that help play. People are wearing the right shoes (Lavers, Tevas and such). People put down the beer and cigarettes. People started wearing shorts and treating footbag as a sport. This is good. The one bad thing is that beginners (myself included) often overlook how truly long it takes to reach the level of play of the BAP members. New players try to skip the easy stuff and go straight to the big adds. I have seen a lot of up and coming people hit 2 and 3 add moves without being able to kick the bag 50 times in a row using alternating insides. Look in the latest issue of KQ where Kenny is quoted as saying that freestyle is ugly now. It is the truth. Freestyle should be pleasing to watch. That is always the goal - at least for me. The Dallas master - James Roberts - forced us to kick the bag before he would coach us on stalls. Sure, hitting 2 add moves is more fun, but you NEED the control. If you can hit a 3 add move consistently, it is time to go tiltless (this means all 2 add moves or better). No more throwing in a toe stall in the middle of a run... that is too easy for people that can hit 3's. Just like when you start hitting 4s, it is time to go guiltless. One of my favorite beginners to watch is a guy that has been kicking for about 6 months now. He has awesome control and can regularly hit about 5 or 6 tiltless. It is nice to see how much he has smoothed out. He isn't jerky when he does the moves any more. He is getting to the point to where he can land moves off of bad sets. These are all skills that you should force yourself to learn. Don't omit the basics. Push yourself - not to learn a new trick, but a new combo. Eli said it best "Comboz is where it's at". Don't even do a toe stall until you have kicked 50 times alternating feet. Then, do 50 alternating toe stalls. Then, if you want, do 50 alternating insides. Then, go for consecutive clippers (both sides)... then alternating clippers. Then, infinities.... osises.... whirls.... drifters... work your way up. Always be able to link any move that you are hitting with any other move that you are hitting. Brad, I've seen you kick and I know that you know about having a smooth style. Help your friend get that same smooth flowing style by encouraging him to link moves. It is worth it in the long run. No one wants to see a torque followed by a toe stall, kick, or drop. People want to see torques followed by something guiltless. You have to go tiltless before you can go guiltless before you can go tripless. Adios. -Derric From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 21 18:01:44 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA07965 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 21 May 1999 18:01:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA26782 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 07:56:59 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by theglobe.com; Fri May 21 07:56:15 1999 To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 07:56:15 -0700 From: "Ian Dubman" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: [freestyle] Definitions of jargon... (Was: "Does BAP Rule??") X-Sender-Ip: 128.206.120.62 Organization: E-Mail @ theglobe.com (http://www.globe-mail.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org First things first, I changed the title because this really has nothing to do with BAP. Dan Eaton sayz: >To be honest I don't know what a "tilt" or >"guiltless" really means. I am unfamiliar with quite >a bit of the jargon that goes with freestyle. I will try to clear up a bit of this for you. If anyone has anything to "add", please do so. Tilt: A one add move. Tiltless: Playing with all moves that are two adds or higher in difficulty. i.e. No one add moves or kicks(unless two add or higher--ex. Flying Butterfly) in middle of strings. Guilt: A two add move. Guiltless: Playing with all moves that are three adds or higher in difficulty. i.e. No one add moves, two add moves, or kicks (unless three adds or higher--ex. Spinning Flying Butterfly) in middle of strings. Trip(??): A three add move. *or what you do if you eat the right kind of fungus*;-) Tripless: Playing with all moves three adds or higher in difficulty. *see a trend yet* i.e. No one add moves, two add moves, three add moves, or kicks (unless three adds or higher-- ex. see Eric Wulf) in middle of strings. Guilty: hitting a two add move in place of a three add move while attempting to go guiltless. ex. see OJ Simpson. "the": Not completely circling the bag while doing a dexterity. ex. my barfly Well, I am about to pee my pants. So, in light of my present mental and physical condition, that is all I can think of. Like I said, please add to this to help people out with the "jargon" if you have any other input. >I don't even know where to go to learn it. Now you do. Late, Ian Dubman MUFF From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 21 18:01:46 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA07969 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 21 May 1999 18:01:46 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f71.hotmail.com [209.185.131.134]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA28383 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:08:38 -0700 Received: (qmail 97776 invoked by uid 0); 21 May 1999 16:08:07 -0000 Message-ID: <19990521160807.97775.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 195.173.239.191 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:08:06 PDT X-Originating-IP: [195.173.239.191] From: "Frank Gutowski" To: torch51@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Does BAP rule? Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:08:06 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Torch and everyone, Well said Ahren, I totally agree. If wasn't for the encouragement of many BAP members(Tu,Tuan,I-man,etc) I know I wouldn't be at the level I am today. When you see such skilled players, you gotta get inspired. Frank From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 21 19:48:40 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA08415 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 21 May 1999 19:48:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08412 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 19:48:39 GMT Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31813 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:51:09 -0700 Received: from [216.111.252.191] (dhcp216-111-252-191.atext.com [216.111.252.191]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00619 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 11:51:31 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Definitions of jargon... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 7:56 AM -0700 5/21/99, Ian Dubman wrote: >Tilt: A one add move. Not exactly. A "tilt" is losing control (bailing to a kick or a one-add trick) in a combination of tricks that are otherwise 2 adds or higher. In other words, if you can't come out of a two-add trick directly into another two-add (or higher) trick, we call that a "tilt". A kick or a one-add move is not a tilt unless you are *trying* to do a "combo". >Guilt: A two add move. Not exactly. A "guilt" is hitting a two-add move or lower in a combination of otherwise three-add or higher tricks. A two-add move by itself is not a guilt unless you are actually *trying* to hit a combo of three-add and higher moves. We call that combo "guiltless" or "guilt-free". (Hence the fat-free yogurt, Guilt-Free Smoothie, or G.F. Smoothie for short, thank you very much, GF.) >"the": Not completely circling the bag while doing a dexterity. ex. my barfly Not exactly. A trick is "the" if you're not hitting the trick you think you are hitting. This usually involves a dexterity where the set is wrong and/or the difficulty is not really there because you didn't do the motion right. Most of the time, as Ian said, it's because the dexterity isn't completed, but in many cases it's also because the bag simply isn't in the right spot yet your leg does the motion anyway (and thus you never really had the difficulty you thought you had). Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat May 22 02:07:23 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA10716 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 22 May 1999 02:07:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matt Cross Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07836 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:46:27 -0700 Received: from Problems1@aol.com (3704) by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id zWLUa10786 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 20:45:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38ee32ca.24775830@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 20:45:36 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Does BAP rule? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I was the guy who said that sipas were as good as a good facile bag, only I think you misunderstood. I own a sipa, but what I'm talkin about is a guatamalen bag, HEAVILY modified, and completely broken in. it's pretty much the same consistency as a facile bag, but it weighs more, which is my preference. And I HAVE seen real freestyle; I spent a few days consistently downloading QT movies from worldfootbag.com (I think that was the address). I have played with a facile bag, I have played with lavers. I choose tevas and an old guat (played as described above). I seriously still prefer it to facile. It's seriously like a heavy facile bag, MAYBE with slightly different consistency. I think what you guys are thinking of is un-broken-in sipas, which never really get good stallage or control, even after severe modification and breaking in. Once again, I've played and owned a well-broken-in facile bag, a Dream, it was... Is it that you guys have never played with a well modified guat, or that I've never played with a good facile? Matt Cross From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat May 22 02:07:41 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA10726 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 22 May 1999 02:07:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (jsishipping.com [207.33.33.34]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06325 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:28:31 -0700 Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA267 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:28:28 -0700 From: "Eric Wulff" To: "'freestyle'" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Does BAP rule? Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:28:34 -0700 Message-ID: <002e01bea3e1$a5222500$592121cf@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Well said Torch.. Eric From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat May 22 03:32:58 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA10940 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:32:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09937 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 19:32:58 -0700 Received: from [216.111.252.191] (dhcp216-111-252-191.atext.com [216.111.252.191]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23006; Fri, 21 May 1999 19:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38ee32ca.24775830@aol.com> References: <38ee32ca.24775830@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 19:33:40 -0700 To: Matt Cross From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Does BAP rule? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 8:45 PM -0400 5/21/99, Matt Cross wrote: >And I HAVE seen real freestyle; I spent a few days consistently >downloading QT movies from worldfootbag.com (I think that was the address). Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat May 22 16:14:55 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA12252 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 22 May 1999 16:14:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f178.hotmail.com [207.82.251.64]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA17691 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 06:43:33 -0700 Received: (qmail 79446 invoked by uid 0); 22 May 1999 13:43:03 -0000 Message-ID: <19990522134303.79445.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.69.2 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 22 May 1999 06:43:00 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.69.2] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Does BAP rule? Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 06:43:00 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Matt Cross wrote: >what I'm talkin about is a guatamalen bag, HEAVILY modified, and completely >broken in. it's pretty much the same consistency as a facile bag, but it >weighs more, which is my preference. OK someone¥s got to give this guy some support. I have played with knit bags that were truly great to play with. They can get almost as easy to stall as facile, but still reliece from the foot better. However it takes more patience than I have to break them in that well and they still play a little rolly. Also two points of clarity, as I recal the dream is made of swede(sp) and if you want to keep on Steve¥s good side don¥t confuse footbag worldwide¥s adress (www.footbag.org) with another that shall remain unwriten. -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat May 22 16:14:56 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA12256 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 22 May 1999 16:14:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Damon Mathews Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA18293 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 07:46:41 -0700 Received: from Damonmath@aol.com (4534) by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id zHVJa15308 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 10:45:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:45:53 EDT Subject: [freestyle] New members To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thanks Ernest, For giving us Laura! Another styler with the fire. Demon Damon Mathews From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun May 23 03:09:08 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA00675 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 23 May 1999 03:09:08 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (grunt.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.17]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA22964 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 12:06:56 -0700 Received: from abc (jlw3368@abc.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.3]) by mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mailhub+tar) with ESMTP id OAA17093 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 14:06:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost by abc (8.8.8+Sun/1.34) id OAA11668; Sat, 22 May 1999 14:06:52 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 14:06:52 -0500 (CDT) From: James Lee Widman X-Sender: jlw3368@abc.ksu.ksu.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] X-games in K.C. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org well, since there are no other tournaments in the midwest here's a chance to get together and SHRED!!!!! Memorial weekend, (29-30) Mission Center parking lot in Kansas City (Sat & Sun, 11 am - 6 pm). Skating, Biking Blading, live music, food, beer, FOOTBAG; kinda' sounds like fun, huh? maybe eXposure? maybe if 10 or even 20 (yeah, right) kickers come dow n and freak out on a bag for a few hours ----something could happen! come cause a scene! -james From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun May 23 07:49:22 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA01433 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 23 May 1999 07:49:22 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail-smtp.socket.net (mail-smtp.socket.net [216.106.1.15]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00145 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 23:35:44 -0700 Received: from mail.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.1.7]) by mail-smtp.socket.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA26422 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 23:03:58 -0500 Received: from alpha-1 ([216.106.19.226]) by mail.socket.net ; Sun, 23 May 1999 01:35:31 -0600 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 01:39:41 -0500 X-Priority: 3 From: Jeremiah Riely Reply-To: jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu X-Mailer: Mail Warrior 2 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Does BAP rule? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer-Version: v2.03a Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Always be able to link any move that you >are hitting with any other move that you are hitting. I think that this is major overkill. There is no way you can link every move you are hitting with every other move. Espescially the better you get. For example, if you can hit both paradox torque and mobius and seal them with a 3 add move you should put them into runs even if you can't link them together. A lot of people can do both mobius but paradox torque, but not many people can link them together. Don't get me wrong, linkage and long strings is where its at, but the only way to be able to link difficult tricks is by doing them a lot. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun May 23 17:52:20 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09648 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 23 May 1999 17:52:20 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA06847 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 09:42:29 -0700 Received: from hb6nl (ip38.reading3.pa.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.187.38]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24879 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 09:42:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000b01bea53b$a6ef32a0$26bb1a26@hb6nl> From: "Ken Cox" To: Subject: [freestyle] Starting Out Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 12:45:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEA51A.1EB89AA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEA51A.1EB89AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, everyone. My name is Ken Cox. I've been subscribed to this list = for quite some time, but I've never posted anything. When I subscribed = sometime last year, I had hopes of seriously getting into footbag. = Other "real life" things came up, though, and I never really got into = it. Now, however, I have more free time and I'd like to become = proficient at footbag. I realize that it takes a lot of practice to be = good, and I'm willing to spend the time. =20 I've bought a footbag to learn with, and I can keep the bag in the air = for about 15 or so kicks at a time on average. I've got my inside kicks = for both feet down pretty well, and the outside kick for my right foot = is pretty good. I'm teaching my left foot the outside kick. =20 Once I've gotten the inside and outside kicks down for both feet, where = should I go from there? Are inside, outside, and toe stalls (apologies = if terminology is wrong) the way to go next? =20 If there's anyone out there that's willing to share some advice for a = beginner, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance, Ken Cox ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEA51A.1EB89AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello, everyone.  My name is Ken Cox.  = I've been=20 subscribed to this list for quite some time, but I've never posted=20 anything.  When I subscribed sometime last year, I had hopes of = seriously=20 getting into footbag.  Other "real life" things came up, though, = and I=20 never really got into it.  Now, however, I have more free time = and I'd=20 like to become proficient at footbag.  I realize that it takes = a lot=20 of practice to be good, and I'm willing to spend the time.  =
 
I've bought a footbag to learn with, and I can keep = the bag in=20 the air for about 15 or so kicks at a time on average.  = I've got=20 my inside kicks for both feet down pretty well, and the outside kick = for my=20 right foot is pretty good.   I'm teaching my left foot the = outside=20 kick. 
 
Once I've gotten the inside and outside kicks down = for both=20 feet, where should I go from there?  Are inside, outside, and toe = stalls=20 (apologies if terminology is wrong) the way to go next?  =
 
If there's anyone out there that's willing to share = some=20 advice for a beginner, I'd greatly appreciate it.
 
Thanks in advance,
Ken Cox
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEA51A.1EB89AA0-- From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun May 23 21:14:48 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA10120 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 23 May 1999 21:14:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08707 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 12:06:49 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with ESMTP id <19990523190648.MFHU13558.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Sun, 23 May 1999 12:06:48 -0700 Message-ID: <374852B5.AB11D84C@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 14:10:45 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ken Cox CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Starting Out References: <000b01bea53b$a6ef32a0$26bb1a26@hb6nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Ken Cox wrote: > > Once I've gotten the inside and outside kicks down for both feet, > where should I go from there? Are inside, outside, and toe stalls > (apologies if terminology is wrong) the way to go next? > Yep. Do alternating toe stalls -left foot, right foot, letf foot, and so on. Toe stalls are key for a lot of the two add moves. Also, try to practice those inside stalls. Again, alternate feet. After you get the inside stalls, go for the clipper. Clipper stalls are key for a lot of three add moves. Just as with the inside and toe stall, try to work both sides. Do consecutive clippers on each side and also do alternating clippers. You can't practice any of these stalls too much. When you get to the point of doing all of your basic stalls, you really have to kick with other people to learn. Going to tournaments is the absolute best way to learn. I'll see you at World's in Chicago. -Derric From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 24 07:12:44 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA13075 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 24 May 1999 07:12:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19910 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:10:19 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #33464) with SMTP id <0FC800A013SW9T@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:10:08 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 00:10:08 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] Re: Does Bap Rule? To: freestyle@footbag.org Reply-to: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Since I posted the original problem, I feel the need to clear up a few things. My friend, while being fairly new to freestyle, is not ignorant of the need to work both sides on all tricks, nor does he sit in a circle and try to bust out 4 add moves to toe stalls. He wants to be the best, like many of us, and he is quite aware of his eventually not needing to put in anything less than a 3 or 4 add move. At the same time he is having fun first; and that part of him says to play on regardless of whether or not the contact involves a kick or a torque. One might say that's not fair because everyone in the circle needs to get an equal chance at the bag and if there were only 5 trick combos and then some kicks and then some combos again, then someone may go 2 minutes without dropping. Hmmm sounds like tournament. So the point I'm trying to make is that first and foremost you have fun. Next your not supposed to drop the bag. And if you come flying out of a Big Apple Sauce and the next move you do is a toe stall and you want to keep going, you've lost no respect in my book and certainly deserve your props. I understand the BAP ARE inspiring, I have my videos and have played with several of them who live in my area. Watching Darryl Genz was my first intro to freestyle past pendulums and toe stalls and has been a constant model. Rick Reese, though I'm sure he doesn't remember, taught me how to do a pick-up the first time I met him. I can absolutely relate to all the responses to the original posting of this story because I'm in the mind set as well. Ahren was correct in saying the BAP is there, in part, to push others and help them along, and the members are chosen by talent and not congeniality. You also can't judge the whole group by an individual member. But I would say that inspiration to do good things comes from good people giving good help, which to me does not mean telling someone they "can't play anything less than a 2 add move". The main problem was not even in the saying of it, so much as how it was said. Now if you're going to be in such an honored position as the BAP then you should be aware of how you come off to other people as they look up to you. And if promoting the sport is part of being in BAP then you should work on being nice to others and not rude as this individual was. Otherwise it's just another click or color of bandanas. The previous responses seemed to give the impression that there are rules which involve exclusion, by making this situation sound like it's okay. Really re-read the original other responses and try to picture yourself as a beginner who was just shunned in a circle. Maybe I titled this wrong and should have focused on the individual, but I'm not here about picking on any ONE. This is all about being nice to your neighbor and being conciderate of others feelings no matter who you are or what club you belong to. Thank you for all the responses and the points of view. Remember, our points of view in this game or any other may illustrate the norm but not the rule and though most get good at the sport one way, others do it another and shouldn't be told HOW. Thanks again, Brad From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 24 07:42:24 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA13173 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 24 May 1999 07:42:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20277 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:43:16 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.165] (dhcp206-67-46-165.atext.com [206.67.46.165]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22046; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:41:58 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 23:42:54 -0700 To: KAPLAN BRADLEY M From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Re: Does Bap Rule? Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:10 AM -0600 5/24/99, KAPLAN BRADLEY M wrote: > Since I posted the original problem, I feel the need to clear up a >few things. Seems like you're just feeding the flames a little more. I guess maybe either you didn't read my long post in detail, or I was too subtle and didn't make my point clearly enough. :-) Heh heh. >At the same time he is having fun first; and that part of him says >to play on regardless of whether or not the contact involves a kick >or a torque. If he is ready to play tilt-free, he should be playing tilt-free. (Wow.. Pithy, eh? :-)) If he doesn't want to risk having a short rally, he should stick to 2- and 3-add moves that he can hit. If he's not ready to play tilt-free, he shouldn't be hitting 4-add moves. Period. End of story. (Okay, but I won't stop with that statement of course. :-)) It's not fun for the rest of us if we have to watch a guy keep trying to same 4-add move over and over again in a circle shred. If he wants to practice hard moves when he still can't link 4 tricks together, he should skool by himself. This is part of circle etiquette. Nobody wants to watch a guy try the same trick over and over again, at any level. >One might say that's not fair because everyone in the circle needs to >get an equal chance at the bag and if there were only 5 trick combos and >then some kicks and then some combos again, then someone may go 2 minutes >without dropping. Didn't I say that? :-) The point is that anyone can go as long as they want until they lose control. Loss of control is measured based on the ability of the player. A good player loses control if he has to bail to a 2-add move. An intermediatep layer loses control if he has to bail to a 1-add move or to a kick. A new player loses control if he drops the bag. Did I mention passing after "loss of control" as a key part of circle etiquette? The BAP member who is watching some kid try atom-smasher four times in a row interleaving his bails with toe kicks is probably getting frustrated waiting for the bag to come around and wondering how long he'll be watching some kid hackerbate. (Oooh. I finally used "hackerbate" in an e-mail message. :-) That's one for the archives.) >So the point I'm trying >to make is that first and foremost you have fun. I think I said that, too. :-) >And if you come flying out of a Big Apple Sauce and the >next move you do is a toe stall and you want to keep going, you've lost >no respect in my book and certainly deserve your props. If you hit a Big Apple Sauce and you can't string together 4 two-add moves, you should have your legs broken. (And this time I'm not kidding. :-)) This is the critical point of this thread. There are so many young kids coming up and learning the hein (and believe me, nobody's more excited about this than me -- it's been my dream for years!) but they need to learn this sport as a DISCIPLINE and follow the advice of the better players if they really want to get anywhere. Trust me on that one. He should be proud that the BAP thought he was good enough to play tilt-free. Nobody would say that to someone who clearly did not have the skills. It's about discipline, and if your friend doesn't want to hear it, then he can ignore it and feel free to state his position up front -- that he's not interested in feedback or pressure and would prefer just to kick for fun. That's fine. But if he's gonna worship the BAP, he better listen to them. (I'm not implying that he does worship the BAP.) But honestly, this whole tilt-free thing, and my point about loss of control, really has nothing to do with BAP. >But I would say that inspiration to do good things comes from >good people giving good help, which to me does not mean telling someone >they "can't play anything less than a 2 add move". We all have our students and our mentors. This is not about that. This is about etiquette in a circle, no matter what the level of play. It's uncool to keep playing with the bag after you've lost control. >The main problem was not even in the saying of it, so much as >how it was said. As I said, I can't speak to that particular instance, but clearly it came across wrong. That's unfortunate. But you can go back to your friend (if he's not on the list) and explain to him that it was not the way he heard it. That's the best thing that can come of all this. You are his guide into the etiquette and social structure of this community, so now's your chance to represent it to him in the best light. It doesn't do anyone any good for you to communicate to him that the BAP (or that one BAP member) are a bunch of jerks. Let's just leave it at that. :-) >Now if you're going to be in such an honored position as >the BAP then you should be aware of how you come off to other people as >they look up to you. Absolutely. But nobody owes anybody anything. We're all just a bunch of hackers after all. :-) >And if promoting the sport is part of being in BAP >then you should work on being nice to others and not rude as this >individual was. BAP *is* a clique. And it's a bunch of really bad boys and one really hein chick. Tame them you won't. :-) Their power is in the eyes of the beholders such as yourself. The fact that you even give a shit how they treat your friend is evidence of that. So, either give them power and conform to their ways, or take them off your pedestal and think of them as just a bunch of kickers with their own wierd system. If they enter your circle and try to dominate it, don't let them. Put them in their place. Lord knows Josh Penney does. :-) > The previous responses seemed to give the impression that there are >rules which involve exclusion, by making this situation sound like it's >okay. Bull. *I* certainly said no such thing. Au contraire. I said the exact opposite. All are equal in the freestyle circle -- as long as the basic etiquette is followed. Keep track of who the next player to get the bag is after you. If you lose control, pass the bag to him or her. That's it. If Pete Irish messes up a rally even only a few tricks into it, you can bet a BILLION dollars he will pass the bag to the next player (though sometimes his memory is bad and he forgets who it's supposed to go to :-)). Always. Period. And look how good that mother is. >Really re-read the original other responses and try to picture >yourself as a beginner who was just shunned in a circle. I'd read my post and think, "Hey, that makes sense. That's cool. I won't be offended anymore when someone tells me he thinks I'm good enough to go tiltless!" >Maybe I titled >this wrong and should have focused on the individual, but I'm not here >about picking on any ONE. Oh, what the hell. Lay it on us.. :-) >This is all about being nice to your neighbor >and being conciderate of others feelings no matter who you are or what >club you belong to. Obviously. But your job as this kid's mentor is to explain the situation to him and make him feel better about it, not to pick a fight with the rest of us. (Not that I'd ever want to be in BAP; you're all a bunch of freaks! :-)) Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 24 16:37:05 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14597 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 24 May 1999 16:37:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (root@rac9.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.149]) by po1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20877 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:32:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA12908 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:32:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA12904 for freestyle@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:32:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:32:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905241532.LAA12904@rac9.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@eniac.yak.net Subject: Re: [freestyle] Does BAP rule? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org BAP rules BAP. what is inspiring about BAP is/are the individuals that make it what it what it is, and why they do it. Not necessarily what it is, or most easily perceived as. nearly every BAP member is an amazingly cool individual as well as a great shredder, motivated by the simple desire to do the impossible with style. Anyone out there intimidated, or turned off by BAP play, and BAP 'rules' i say screw it. forget it. kick how you like. but don't let what offends you about the Posse, or about how they talk (when what they want to do is kick) get in the way of learning from them, seeing how cool their goals and acheivements are, and respect that the kickers are still cool, and they definitely know and share your enjoyment of the game, the skill development, the shred. hmmm... maybe what BAP really needs is to simply talk less. at least, about BAP. talk about how to learn, what you learn, why you do what you do. individually. instead of as BAP members, or aspiring to be BAP individuals. that you are BAP, or want to be, will be obvious. just some thoughts. l8r- 'crastinator From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 24 16:38:23 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14644 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 24 May 1999 16:38:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26217 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 07:05:37 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA09270 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:05:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Does Bap Rule? Message-Id: <000001027593010399537@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:05:37 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, May 24, 1999, 1:42:54 AM US CST Steve Goldberg wrote: >her. That's it. If Pete Irish messes up a rally even only a few >tricks into it, you can bet a BILLION dollars he will pass the bag to >the next player (though sometimes his memory is bad and he forgets >who it's supposed to go to :-)). Always. Period. And look how good So where does all the self-serving come from? Most of the BAP-wannabes I know, and several of the BAPers I know, are rather into re-serving themselves if the string isn't long enough. Whoever got that self-serving bullsh*t started should be forced to spend the rest of their footbag career kicking with BAP wannabes that think you get two rallies per turn unless that rally is in the top 30-40% of your ability. Besides the self-serving cr*p, there are a couple of other criticisms I could level at the group: the definition of difficulty and technical growth is a very narrow one; I think there is a lot of unnecessary peer pressure exerted by the group - it seems to be a fairly arrogant basic assumption that everyone wants to be there and even if it wasn't a starting player's intention, the constant barrage of BAP-centric messages can easily suck you in. All the 'rules' of tilting and guilting and passing a certain direction are a little more structure than what attracted me to footbag in the first place. Having said that, I would rather choose BAP mentality than the 'no-drops' mantra that stifled technical creativity for a few years. That was a byproduct of wanting to be an Olympic event, if memory serves me right. It was far worse than being clique-ish; it was opressive. Just remember there is a greater range of difficulty and expressiveness that can be gained through freestyling than what BAP generally acknowledges. If you don't want to follow BAP 'rules' - don't. And there's nothing any 'wronger' than telling a circle of BAP kickers that you're not playing BAP rules than it is for a BAP player to come into a circle and tell everyone that the circle should follow some BAP rule. ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 24 16:45:40 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14673 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 24 May 1999 16:45:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14670 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 16:45:39 GMT Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28345 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 08:47:52 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.165] (dhcp206-67-46-165.atext.com [206.67.46.165]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16280 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 08:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000001027593010399537@mlerf.org> References: <000001027593010399537@mlerf.org> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:48:17 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Does Bap Rule? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:05 AM -0500 5/24/99, Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: >So where does all the self-serving come from? You're confused. BAP members don't self-serve. Maybe up-and-coming shredders do it mistakenly in a circle with others, but the only way to get another round is to get a rebate from the next player. Sometimes the next player will speed things up by saying something like "go again" as the previous player is about to pass it, which is just a smart way to avoid further delay as the person would have thrown the bag back anyway. But that's always very explicit. The assumption that all BAP members have is that their turn is over the second they lose control, no matter what. You are probably thinking of some of the newer shredders who aren't BAP yet and who don't realize the difference between freestyling in a circle with folks they don't know, and skooling with their buds in a tight hard-core practice session. (There is a difference.) >All the 'rules' of tilting and guilting and passing a certain direction are a >little more structure than what attracted me to footbag in the first place. That's your prerogative, as I said. >Just remember there is a greater range of difficulty and expressiveness that >can be gained through freestyling than what BAP generally acknowledges. If you >don't want to follow BAP 'rules' - don't. And there's nothing any 'wronger' >than telling a circle of BAP kickers that you're not playing BAP rules than it >is for a BAP player to come into a circle and tell everyone that the circle >should follow some BAP rule. I concur 100%. There should never be a circle where it is *required* to do a certain thing (aside from follow basic etiquette). However, if you want to impress BAP (which is the goal of a lot of young shredders today), then you have to take that into account. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 24 17:32:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14922 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 24 May 1999 17:32:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29611 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:29:06 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA29570 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:29:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Does Bap Rule? Message-Id: <000001028643010408147@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:29:07 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, May 24, 1999, 10:48:17 AM US CST Steve Goldberg wrote: >You're confused. BAP members don't self-serve. Glad to hear it. Maybe everyone else will aspire to that. ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 24 20:08:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA15496 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:08:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Damon Mathews Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA30397 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 10:13:41 -0700 Received: from Damonmath@aol.com (14424) by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id zXELa15308 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 13:12:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:12:27 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Does Bap Rule? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 5/24/99 11:06:31 AM, brat@footbag.org writes: <> Wow, you make it sound like Bap is some big corporation. Any wannabes have to dress nice, comb their hair, wear a suit and tie, and hope for an interview. Demon Damon From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 24 23:02:19 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA16194 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:02:19 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from fastcart.com ([209.32.190.67]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03298 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:05:30 -0700 Received: from qbert [209.32.190.11] by fastcart.com (SMTPD32-5.01) id AE6CA33B0154; Mon, 24 May 1999 16:02:36 CDT X-Sender: dan@po.fastcart.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:10:27 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Dan Chick Subject: [freestyle] Minneapolis In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: <199905241602.SM00227@qbert> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If I had a tourney here in Minneapolis in August how many would come? Dan Chick From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 24 23:02:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA16190 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:02:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01251 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:45:01 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA24066 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:44:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Does Bap Rule? Message-Id: <000001030203010419901@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:45:01 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, May 24, 1999, 12:12:27 PM US CST Damon Mathews wrote: >Wow, you make it sound like Bap is some big corporation. Any wannabes have >to dress nice, comb their hair, wear a suit and tie, and hope for an >interview. Hey, that could be the new BAP advertising slogan! Sharpen the Image - Sharpen the blades ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mon May 24 23:44:56 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA16671 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:44:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail-smtp.socket.net (mail-smtp.socket.net [216.106.1.32] (may be forged)) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05617 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 15:34:15 -0700 Received: from mail.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.1.7]) by mail-smtp.socket.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA10095 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 16:41:41 -0500 Received: from alpha-1 ([216.106.19.57]) by mail.socket.net ; Mon, 24 May 1999 17:32:30 -0600 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:36:43 -0500 X-Priority: 3 From: Jeremiah Riely Reply-To: jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu X-Mailer: Mail Warrior 2 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Does Bap Rule? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer-Version: v2.03a Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >You're confused. BAP members don't self-serve. Maybe up-and-coming >shredders do it mistakenly in a circle with others, but the only way >to get another round is to get a rebate from the next player. >Sometimes the next player will speed things up by saying something >like "go again" as the previous player is about to pass it, which is >just a smart way to avoid further delay as the person would have >thrown the bag back anyway. But that's always very explicit. The >assumption that all BAP members have is that their turn is over the >second they lose control, no matter what. You are probably thinking >of some of the newer shredders who aren't BAP yet and who don't >realize the difference between freestyling in a circle with folks >they don't know, and skooling with their buds in a tight hard-core >practice session. (There is a difference.) I think your mistaken, I have seen at least one BAP member (who will remain unnamed) who regularly self served. And on video I have seen BAP members re serve to themselves after a drop or after losing control, I couldn't hear the other people talking so they may have said to keep it or something, but they did it so fast I don't see how they could have had time to say it. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 25 01:34:49 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA17137 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 25 May 1999 01:34:49 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (root@diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09626 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 17:29:23 -0700 Received: from default (madmax-143.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.143]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA20044 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 17:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990524172858.007dd100@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:28:58 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Tu Vu Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Does Bap Rule? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 01:12 PM 5/24/99 EDT, Damon Mathews wrote: >Wow, you make it sound like Bap is some big corporation. Any wannabes have >to dress nice, comb their hair, wear a suit and tie, and hope for an >interview. i think that would be cool. We need to have BAP be a roving gang of thugs wearing black sunglasses, pin stripe suits, slicked up black hair and most importantly, carry baseball bats. if anyone went out of line, "WHACK!!!" and we should say stuff after combos like, "How do you like me now?" and "Whose your daddy??" now there is a BAP i'll sign up for... 2 Huge From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 25 17:35:53 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28769 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 25 May 1999 17:35:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA20736 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 05:29:24 -0700 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (209-107-90-078.chicago.verio.net [209.107.90.78]) by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA23425; Tue, 25 May 1999 07:29:18 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199905241602.SM00227@qbert> References: Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 07:25:04 -0500 To: Dan Chick , freestyle@footbag.org From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Minneapolis Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Dan! >If I had a tourney here in Minneapolis in August how many would come? I will rally the troops from Chicago. Val and I will try to be there... well within our 8 hour driving limit range. What would be your target date? Did everyone in the Chicago area get this message? Who all would go? See ya! Scott, Valeria and Alex Davidson From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 25 17:37:48 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28786 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 25 May 1999 17:37:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from fastcart.com ([209.32.190.67]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA22886 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 07:34:01 -0700 Received: from qbert [209.32.190.11] by fastcart.com (SMTPD32-5.01) id A4294140134; Tue, 25 May 1999 09:31:05 CDT X-Sender: chickd@fastcart.com@209.32.190.67 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 09:39:09 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Dan Chick Subject: Re: [freestyle] Minneapolis In-Reply-To: References: <199905241602.SM00227@qbert> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: <199905250931.SM00227@qbert> Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Scott Davidson wrote: >What would be your target date? I'd probably shoot for August 14th, 15th weekend so that it's not back to back with Funtastik. Now, I want to tell everyone in advance that I haven't run a complete tourney by myself before. I did help Scott Durfee with the first couple of Albany tournaments but I'm kind of new to running one from the ground up. anyone who wants to offer insight or assistance would be welcomed. I have a bunch of new kickers here and I think a tournament would ignite everyone here and turn Minneapolis into a hotbed. These kids are stoked to kick! And there are hundreds more like them, I just need to find them! So, that said, that's said..... dan From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 25 17:37:50 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28790 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 25 May 1999 17:37:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f10.hotmail.com [207.82.250.21]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA25512 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 09:35:02 -0700 Received: (qmail 68037 invoked by uid 0); 25 May 1999 16:34:31 -0000 Message-ID: <19990525163431.68036.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.143 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 25 May 1999 09:34:31 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.143] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] circle etiquette and BAP Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 09:34:31 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org OK, say I'm just fanning the flames but here's a question: what exactly is BAP? I've read several versions over the last few days of what they should be, but simply put they are a bunch of guys (and chick) who play footbag really well. Other than that whatever they want to do is up to them. I personally could give a lot of sugestions what they could do to help the sport and so on, but none of that really matters because I'm not part of the group. They are whatever they want to be, which doesn't mean, that they have to be perfect humanbeings or play with any particular style. As Ahren (sp sorry) said they are chosen becasue they play well, not because they are supper nice people. Along those lines most of them I've met have been very nice, and like all people they can also ocasionally be, or at least be persieved to be gerks. At the very least they are far more aproachable than "profesional" athaletes in most sports. Imagine walking up to Michael Jordan and asking if he want's to play "Horse." It isn't happening, however most of the BAP members I've met have seemed very nice about playing with and helping new players. If you want to be BAP or not you should still be doing your own thing or you're just cheating yourself. And one more thing, this is my personal basic circle etiquette. 1. Don't self serve, this is obvious and basic politeness, along with this should go if someone screws up they should probably get a second try. 2. Try to pass to every player evenly. 3. If you join a circle expect to follow their rules. This is where a lot of problems start. If you walk into a circle of all BAP players probably expect to be told no guilt or no trips, or if you walk into a circle where everyone is working on new moves don't complain about some self service. I've walked up to a lot of circles where everyone is just kicking and they tell me to stop doing tricks, this seems completely unfair, but really you just have to accept that. It's a social sport which means both, don't put to many restrictions on players, but also if you're joining somebody elses circle you just have to accept the way they were already playing. All of course just imho. -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 25 20:15:13 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA12857 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 25 May 1999 20:15:13 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailhost.onramp.net (mailhost.onramp.net [199.1.11.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA27964 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 11:16:41 -0700 Received: from acsdallas.com (a200-173.ppp.dlls.tx.onramp.net [199.1.153.173]) by mailhost.onramp.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA24465 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:16:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from JAMES [144.19.62.4] by acs_dc [144.19.62.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:22:51 -0500 Received: by JAMES with Microsoft Mail id <01BEA6AF.E8B7CD80@JAMES>; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:10:06 -0000 Message-ID: <01BEA6AF.E8B7CD80@JAMES> From: James Roberts To: "freestyle@footbag.org" , "'Andrew McCargar'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] circle etiquette and BAP Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:10:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andrew wrote: > Along those lines most of them I've met have been very nice, and like all people they can also ocasionally be, or at least be persieved to be gerks. Isn't that a pickle? JR From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 25 20:15:12 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA12854 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 25 May 1999 20:15:12 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f31.hotmail.com [209.185.131.94]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA28363 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 11:28:25 -0700 Received: (qmail 21674 invoked by uid 0); 25 May 1999 18:28:14 -0000 Message-ID: <19990525182814.21673.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 195.109.147.106 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 25 May 1999 11:28:13 PDT X-Originating-IP: [195.109.147.106] From: "Frank Gutowski" To: enlightener@footbag.org, dan@footbag.net, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Minneapolis Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 11:28:13 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dan, If I am in the country at the time I will try to make it too. Frank Gutowski >From: "Scott Davidson" >To: Dan Chick , freestyle@footbag.org >Subject: Re: [freestyle] Minneapolis >Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 07:25:04 -0500 > >Hi Dan! > > >If I had a tourney here in Minneapolis in August how many would come? > >I will rally the troops from Chicago. Val and I will try to be there... >well within our 8 hour driving limit range. > >What would be your target date? > >Did everyone in the Chicago area get this message? Who all would go? > >See ya! >Scott, Valeria and Alex Davidson _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 25 21:17:14 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13217 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 25 May 1999 21:17:14 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matt Cross Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA32154 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:07:29 -0700 Received: from Problems1@aol.com (7808) by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id zUTBa06484 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:06:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:06:00 EDT Subject: Re: RE: [freestyle] circle etiquette and BAP To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Exactly. BAP members are more susceptible to the dreaded "PMS" (Pickle Mutation Syndrome) because of a weird fungus that grows inside Lavers. The only cure; get some Tevas ;) Heh, don't take this serious, it's just a little brain fart that I couldn't help writing. Matt Cross From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Tue May 25 21:59:27 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13355 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Tue, 25 May 1999 21:59:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu (uclink4.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.39]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01288 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 14:00:00 -0700 Received: from user (209-209-19-111.oak.inreach.net [209.209.19.111]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA25089 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990525210441.0088eb08@uclink4.Berkeley.edu> X-Sender: jclor@uclink4.Berkeley.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 14:04:41 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Jared Clorfeine Subject: [freestyle] selfserves Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I don't get why you wouldn't want someone to serve to themselves. If it's because of tradition, we already stopped using hard bags, picking it up with only our feet, trying to get a "hack", passing the bag, etc... Why would you want to keep this rule? If someone before me drops it real quick, I'd rather have him decide if he wants to go again, and not waste time with him passing me the bag, I catch it on the back of my hand and toss it back (OOH that looked cool, so graceful, and doesn't it warm your heart to see that generosity). And what if he doesn't want it? Then he kicks it back to me, and what have we accomplished? I just can't for the life of me think of a good reason why anyone would care. Jared From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 26 07:08:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16145 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:08:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailhost.onramp.net (mailhost.onramp.net [199.1.11.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02482 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 14:49:44 -0700 Received: from acsdallas.com (a200-173.ppp.dlls.tx.onramp.net [199.1.153.173]) by mailhost.onramp.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA17161 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:49:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from JAMES [144.19.62.4] by acs_dc [144.19.62.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:56:49 -0500 Received: by JAMES with Microsoft Mail id <01BEA6CD.C1146B80@JAMES>; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:43:45 -0000 Message-ID: <01BEA6CD.C1146B80@JAMES> From: James Roberts To: "freestyle@footbag.org" , "'Jared Clorfeine'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] selfserves Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:43:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id WAA13611 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jared Clorfeine wrote: >I don't get why you wouldn't want someone to serve to themselves. If it's because of tradition, we already stopped using hard bags, picking it up with only our feet, trying to get a "hack", passing the bag, etc... Why would you want to keep this rule? Man...here come the worms, but you opened the can, so you might as well break out your fishing pole. First of all, of all the things you've mentioned, "no self-serving" is the only one that has ever been a written rule. Second - and I don't say anything to beginners at first - but I'm not in a circle to watch someone pick up the bag and serve it to themselves over and over and over. That's for schooling - solo. When I do play with a beginner, I will pass it back to them over and over and over IF they're not self-serving. Please see Kenny Shults' comment in Kicker's Quarterly (the most recent issue) about freestyle being "trash" and "garbage" because of the self-serving and catching the bag with your hand and passing it back. BTW, "hacks" are still cool in my book, too, especially if everyone strings some combos. >If someone before me drops it real quick, I'd rather have him decide if he wants to go again, and not waste time with him passing me the bag, I catch it on the back of my hand and toss it back (OOH that looked cool, so graceful, and doesn't it warm your heart to see that generosity). That's why you should pass it back with a kick or a trick. Spectators LOVE pendulums and, talk about an easy pass. Try an eclipse, flying clipper or refraction pass. OOH...doesn't that look a little better than the back of your hand? And what if he doesn't want it? Then he kicks it back to me, You betcha >and what have we accomplished? I just can't for the life of me think of a good reason why anyone would care. You've stuck to the rules, it looks better, and any new players that are wanting to learn don't pick up such bad habits. I care and always will. Hope to see you at World's, Jared, self-serving or otherwise. JR DFC From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 26 07:08:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16149 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:08:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA03653 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 15:33:17 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by theglobe.com; Tue May 25 15:32:42 1999 To: freestyle@footbag.org, "Jared Clorfeine" Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:32:42 -0700 From: "Ian Dubman" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [freestyle] selfserves X-Sender-Ip: 128.206.120.62 Organization: E-Mail @ theglobe.com (http://www.globe-mail.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jared sez: I just can't for the life of me think of a >good reason why anyone would care. I personally do not care whether a circle is self-service or not(sounds like a gas station). BUT, I do think if a circle is mixed it can create problems. For instance, say you have an old school kicker in your circle(no self-serves) and couple newbies (self-servers) and yourself(could give a sh-t one way or the other). OK Say, you stand next to the old school person(where you pass to him/her). He/she is getting agitated that the other two are not passing on first drop(loss of control should be taken into consideration also, but I can only discuss so much), but you are passing on first drop(respecting the old school). Ok, say you are having a rough time getting warm. The newbies(keep in mind I mean guiltless newbies) are keeping it for long periods of time because they self-serve if they drop. The Old Schooler is keeping forever because he/she is Old School and that is how long he kicks. You, well, you have had better days and this one won't improve because not only wil! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! l noone toss the bag back to you if you drop, it takes forever for it to get back around the circle because people are self-serving--though you are not. So, if everyone self-serves, no problem--you have no excuse. Or, if noone self-serves cool, then all is equal. That probably did not make a whole lot of sense and I have no time for proofreading, so take it as it is. Late, Iam Ian "Free web-based email available now at http://www.theglobe.com" From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 26 07:09:46 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16324 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:09:46 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd116.hotmail.com [207.82.252.180]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA10280 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 21:45:16 -0700 Received: (qmail 41210 invoked by uid 0); 26 May 1999 04:44:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19990526044444.41209.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.27.84.65 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 25 May 1999 21:44:43 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.27.84.65] From: "Brian Waligorski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] selfserves Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 21:44:43 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jared Clorfeine wrote: I just can't for the life of me think of a good reason why anyone would care. Well, Jared, if we all just self served if we wanted another shot then no one would get the bag. I know that when I am trying a new trick and I almost make it I want to try it again and again until I fall over. I think it comes down to the fact that others think you are greedy and that you don't really care if anyone else is there. Would you want to get into a circle with people that couldn't care less if anyone else is in it? Thats what I think anyway... Brian Waligorski _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 26 07:09:47 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16333 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:09:47 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Damon Mathews Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA08767 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 19:51:17 -0700 Received: from Damonmath@aol.com (3929) by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id zPLIa02682 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 22:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 22:49:41 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] selfserves To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a group of two shredders who can each pull long strings, self service helps the other player catch his breath before rippin' it again. I get exhausted after 30 tricks, then 30 tricks, then 30 tricks, then ..... In groups of 4 however, self service tends to slow the momentum way down. The hot shredder's legs get cold while the newbie is trying to learn a whirling swirl, "that he swears he can hit, he is just not getting the set right". "And if he keeps trying he is sure to get at least one." Meanwhile, the buzz has worn off and boredom starts to set in. "Pass the bag". All of this nonsense has come down to the following rules in Charlotte circles: 1.) If you are new---free reign 2.) If you can already do a litte freestyle----3 self serves--for any run under 9adds 3.) If your guiltless---give it up-- 4.) Only exceptions are for crazy mad tricks or cool tricks that someone just learned that day or that week. Demon Damon From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 26 07:10:05 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16345 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:10:05 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu (uclink4.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.39]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05514 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:56:49 -0700 Received: from user (209-209-19-168.oak.inreach.net [209.209.19.168]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA20309 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990526000129.00873e4c@uclink4.Berkeley.edu> X-Sender: jclor@uclink4.Berkeley.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 17:01:29 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Jared Clorfeine Subject: RE: [freestyle] selfserves Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > First of all, of all the things you've mentioned, "no self-serving" is the only one that has ever been a written rule. Second - and I don't say anything to beginners at first - but I'm not in a circle to watch someone pick up the bag and serve it to themselves over and over and over. That's for schooling - solo. When I do play with a beginner, I will pass it back to them over and over and over IF they're not self-serving. If I'm playing in that circle, please explain why it is better for me to watch you pass the bag back to him over and over, as opposed to him just keeping the bag over and over. There's a different question about how many tries one gets, the question here is simply who decides, this guy or the guy next to him. And I'm not sure where any rule has been written down. Please see Kenny Shults' comment in Kicker's Quarterly (the most recent issue) about freestyle being "trash" and "garbage" because of the self-serving and catching the bag with your hand and passing it back. > How does this make sense? I think it's clear that, except for doubles freestyle competitions, the footbag is simply not a team sport. Sure it's more fun to play with other people, but the main thrust of our work here is not to be able to make passes; we've moved beyond that. Are people here honestly impressed, or do you have more fun if someone kicks it back to you rather than slapping it back to you? I guess the answer is yes, but I don't really get it. And what about picking it up with your hand? Some people don't like you to pick their bag up with your foot, are they turning freestyle into trash because they don't want their bag raked over the asphalt? >That's why you should pass it back with a kick or a trick. Spectators LOVE pendulums and, talk about an easy pass. Try an eclipse, flying clipper or refraction pass. OOH...doesn't that look a little better than the back of your hand? Yes, spectators do love pendulums, because they don't know shit. I've watched people do crazy stuff and not have anyone care, but if you do a pendulum they ooh and ahh. hope nobody's goal is to impress spectators, because you would do this by sticking to easy, cute moves and never dropping the bag. Or by juggling and doing rakes that impress the kids watching but bore everyone else in the circle:) As an aside, I think sports often cheapen themselves when they try to increase their appeal to audiences, because most people are idiots. Ever watch people at a baseball game jump out of their seats at a fly ball hit forty feet short of the wall, or in tennis people get excited by a fast serve that's out by a foot? Watch arena football to see what happens when you take this idea to it's extreme. Jared From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 26 07:52:12 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16520 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:52:12 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12689 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 23:50:22 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990526065020.JIBW21771.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 23:50:20 -0700 Message-ID: <374B9A8B.C9080E2D@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 01:54:03 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] selfserves References: <2.2.32.19990526000129.00873e4c@uclink4.Berkeley.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Oooohhh... this is just too much fun. Whoever started all of this BAP rules and self serving stuff - I LOVE IT! This is why I'm on this list... to hear people ramble about stuff that 99.9% of people in the world just don't care about. Now, about the self serves I think that Steve hit on a great point at the beginning of all of this. He said that it makes a difference whether you are skooling or shredding. I think that it looks a lot better if you don't self serve. When you are out at the park kicking, or at a concert in a circle with 'hackers' and you want to impress, you have to do the crowd pleasers. I know that it sucks that a pendulum and a squeeze get a better response than a blurry torque, but that's just the way it is. I'm not only in this sport to hit the hein combos and such, but I'm also in it to promote footbag. The only way to promote it is to make it look good. You can get crowd pleasing moves that are difficult - people love double over downs and blurs. People also love the long smooth guiltless strings. The average passerby usually watches until the bag hits the ground. You can't deny it. How many times have you seen people stop, watch, and then leave at the first self serve? When kicking for show around people that don't know, it is important to make it look good. However, I will be the first to self serve in a small shred session. If I'm kicking only around other footbaggers, I see no harm in the self serve. Say that you try a spinning whirl. You haven't ever hit it, but you can come sooo close. So, you try it and miss. Then, you pick up the bag, pass it to the next person. They are kind enough to give you a passback, but it isn't a great pass. IF you manage to gain control of the bag after a couple of kicks, you are already out of spinning whirl mode. It is like you are trying it again for the first time. Now, if you self serve, time is saved and you can practice a few (I try to keep it to 3) times IN A ROW. I personally do much better if I get some consecutive tries at a move. So, to sum it all up, I say: Self serve only when skooling behind closed doors with other like-minded footbaggers. Keep it off the ground at all costs any other time. The hard part is finding time to do both - shred and skool... Just my thoughts. -Derric From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 26 17:12:58 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18080 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:12:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailhost.onramp.net (mailhost.onramp.net [199.1.11.3]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA17508 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 06:45:29 -0700 Received: from acsdallas.com (a200-45.ppp.dlls.tx.onramp.net [199.1.153.45]) by mailhost.onramp.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA19056 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:45:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from JAMES [144.19.62.4] by acs_dc [144.19.62.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:49:57 -0500 Received: by JAMES with Microsoft Mail id <01BEA752.B35C9AA0@JAMES>; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:35:25 -0000 Message-ID: <01BEA752.B35C9AA0@JAMES> From: James Roberts To: "freestyle@footbag.org" , "'Jared Clorfeine'" Subject: RE: [freestyle] selfserves Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:35:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freestyle@footbag.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id OAA17555 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >If I'm playing in that circle, please explain why it is better for me to watch you pass the bag back to him over and over, as opposed to him just keeping the bag over and over. There's a different question about how many tries one gets, the question here is simply who decides, this guy or the guy next to him. And I'm not sure where any rule has been written down. See Ian's post about Old School players. How does this make sense? I think it's clear that, except for doubles freestyle competitions, the footbag is simply not a team sport. Yes, but if you've ever seen any WFA demos, circle-shredding has always been a hailed 'cooperative' sport, in an effort to teach teamwork and sportsmanship or, as you referred earlier "heart-warming." Yes, spectators do love pendulums, because they don't know shit. Eeeaassy, Big Fella (I can say that b/c I live in TX - JR from Dallas, mind you). Remember, spectators become shredders. >I've watched people do crazy stuff and not have anyone care, but if you do a pendulum they ooh and ahh. hope nobody's goal is to impress spectators, because you would do this by sticking to easy, cute moves and never dropping the bag. Or by juggling and doing rakes that impress the kids watching but bore everyone else in the circle:) These kids are the next Shults, Reese, Mulder and Bouchard (sp?). Impress them to entice them. >As an aside, I think sports often cheapen themselves when they try to increase their appeal to audiences, Tell me that you don't oft' times (call me Shakespeare) shred to show off ("increase your appeal to audiences") and that when a crowd is watching, the adrenalin doesn't start pumping, and you don't hit some of your most hein combos, then I'll believe that you never never "cheapen" yourself. >because most people are idiots. Au contraire...most people are awesome in my half-full glass, my brutha. Sincerely, JR Cheap Old Schooler From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 26 17:12:56 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18076 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:12:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f108.hotmail.com [207.82.250.227]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA16304 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 05:23:01 -0700 Received: (qmail 45822 invoked by uid 0); 26 May 1999 12:22:15 -0000 Message-ID: <19990526122215.45821.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.137 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 May 1999 05:22:15 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.137] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] selfserves Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 05:22:15 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jared Clorfeine wrote: >I don't get why you wouldn't want someone to serve to themselves. ... Why >would you want to keep this rule? Personally I was amazed to see any argument on this point. Anyway as we all have opinions here's mine... My theory goes like this, players shouldn't drop the bag quickly, even newbys. After you've been playing for a few weeks you should be able to usually get ten or more kicks every time you get the bag. If someone screws up early they should get a second chance, but alowing self service just alows players to try moves that are too difficult for them instead of making them work on control. If a player is consistantly droping before the tenth trick, kick whatever, they're likely trying tricks that are to difficult. And of course if you can't get ten consecutive kicks three out of four times, then everyone in the circle should be making sure you get passed to often. I should also say in my mind there are practice circles and shred circles. In practice circles of course you self serve because you're working on new moves and you're going to drop it a lot. This is how you learn new moves with other people. However in shred circles you are working on conecting moves you already know and so self serving just encourages players to try moves that are too difficult for them, which really ruines the flow. I at least play in shred circles to see what everyone else can do, not what they can do one out of three times at the end of a five move run. That I can watch in practice. My two cents -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 26 17:14:28 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18095 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:14:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Damon Mathews Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA19165 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:06:32 -0700 Received: from Damonmath@aol.com (226) by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id zGIFa03098 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:04:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3f308b64.247d678b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:04:43 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] selfserves To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org About picking the bag up with your feet? In Charlotte we use Carol bags, we also kick on rough concrete. Scraping the bag across the ground ruins the bags way too fast. So picking up the bag with your hand is almost requested. Anyone else care about their bags? Demon Damon From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 26 17:15:52 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18122 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:15:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA15875 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 04:59:04 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by theglobe.com; Wed May 26 04:58:29 1999 To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 04:58:29 -0700 From: "Ian Dubman" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: RE: [freestyle] selfserves X-Sender-Ip: 128.206.120.62 Organization: E-Mail @ theglobe.com (http://www.globe-mail.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Yes, spectators do love pendulums, because they don't know shit. I've >watched people do crazy stuff and not have anyone care, but if you do a >pendulum they ooh and ahh. hope nobody's goal is to impress spectators, >because you would do this by sticking to easy, cute moves and never dropping >the bag. Whoa dude! Spectators are the shiznit!! They may not know shiznit, but that is definitely what they are. Why wouldn't you want someone to watch you? I work my butt off skooling, and while it is primarily for noone but myself, I still love showing people what I have been doing for countless hours with those "dudes" up on campus. I have seen many, MANY spectators impressed by long dropless guiltless strings. They may not know see every exact movement, but they usually appreciate the fact that you are doing something that requires lots of practice and is most likely something they cannot do. And, I sure as hell would prefer to hit a 30+ contact guiltless combo than busting one phat 5 or 6 add move in front of people. Picking it up, tossing back to myself, only to miss it again. Would you really think a styler who hits blurry blender and drops is better than the guy busting a 30 contact variety of moves?? Blurry Blender is phat, but that is not where it is at. Or by juggling and doing rakes that impress the kids watching but >bore everyone else in the circle:) I don't think this is a problem as long as it is their turn to kick. Freestyle is a form of self-expression. Do what you want in a circle, but don't critique those who chose to make the sport more visually appealing for others. >As an aside, I think sports often cheapen themselves when they try to >increase their appeal to audiences, because most people are idiots. Those "idiots" are making some baseball player, some basketball player, etc. millionaires. I am not looking for fortunes(otherwise I obviously would not be a footbagger), but I think it would be nice if, in the future, our elite kickers could make a living solely from kicking. That would be nice. Ever >watch people at a baseball game jump out of their seats at a fly ball hit >forty feet short of the wall, or in tennis people get excited by a fast >serve that's out by a foot? >Watch arena football to see what happens when you take this idea to it's extreme. I really do not see where you went with this. First it was cheapening of sports. Cool, gotcha. But, then you are pointing out the obviously nonappealing aspects of certain sports, not the cheapening of these sports--except maybe arena football, I agree, it sucks. So, if you do that, you might as well toss in the dropping of a footbag. "Ever see a footbagger or a spectator get excited to see a kid try busting superfly, only to land on his butt with the footbag twenty yards away..." That is essentially what you just described with these other sports, and it is exactly what JR was saying should be curbed when kicking in front of spectators. Sounds like you might agree but do not want to admit it. I don't know. Though I know I am done bantering about this topic. Late, Ian D. MUFF "Free web-based email available now at http://www.theglobe.com" From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 26 19:06:06 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA18852 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 26 May 1999 19:06:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from iuakk.fi (qmailr@lux2.iuakk.fi [194.89.13.6]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA02757 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:16:02 -0700 Received: (qmail 28026 invoked from network); 26 May 1999 17:15:38 -0000 Received: from x2-56k.ppp.35.iuakk.fi (HELO iuakk) (194.89.12.101) by lux2.iuakk.fi with SMTP; 26 May 1999 17:15:38 -0000 Message-ID: <001f01bea79b$8c9e32e0$650c59c2@iuakk.fi> From: "Juha Linnanen" To: "Freestyle" References: <3f308b64.247d678b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] selfserves Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:16:52 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.100 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > About picking the bag up with your feet? > In Charlotte we use Carol bags, we also kick on rough concrete. Scraping >the > bag across the ground ruins the bags way too fast. So picking up the bag > with your hand is almost requested. Anyone else care about their bags? I use too Carol bag and _always_ pick it up with my hand. If someone else tries something else to my bag I tell him to stop that and start picking it up with hand. I just don't want to do anything that does damage my precious bag :) Juha L. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 26 22:58:55 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA19823 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 26 May 1999 22:58:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu (uclink4.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.39]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13812 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:50:30 -0700 Received: from user (209-209-18-116.oak.inreach.net [209.209.18.116]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA12431 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:50:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990526215457.00818024@uclink4.Berkeley.edu> X-Sender: jclor@uclink4.Berkeley.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:54:57 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Jared Clorfeine Subject: RE: [freestyle] selfserves Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Yes, but if you've ever seen any WFA demos, circle-shredding has always been a hailed 'cooperative' sport, in an effort to teach teamwork and sportsmanship or, as you referred earlier "heart-warming." Isn't it more cooperative, and a better show of sprtsmanship for me to say, "OK guys, if you drop early, and really want to go again, do it. I don't mind waiting another twenty seconds, and I waive my right to not let you go again."? >Tell me that you don't oft' times (call me Shakespeare) shred to show off ("increase your appeal to audiences") and that when a crowd is watching, the adrenalin doesn't start pumping, and you don't hit some of your most hein combos, then I'll believe that you never never "cheapen" yourself. Sure, it's fun when people watch. And it's great when people appreciate what your doing and say, "hey that's reallly cool." I'm saying Idon't think it's good tochange your style, from the kinds of things we normally do the the kinds of things you think will impress them. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 26 23:15:06 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19938 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 26 May 1999 23:15:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Message-ID: <19990526213341.28014.rocketmail@web213.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.108.197.65] by web213.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:33:41 PDT Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:33:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Cory Current Subject: [freestyle] Western Regionals airport pick-up? To: freestyle@footbag.org Cc: footbag@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everybody, Would there be anyone in the SanFran area that would be able to pick me up at the airport on Friday night? I assume others would be flying in then, too, so maybe I could just rendezvous with somebody and make a carpool out of it. I come in to SFO at 9:17pm on American Airlines, Flight 47, Terminal 3. I guess I just need to get to the Welch's that night to find a place to crash, else to Steve's house. So can anyone help out this wandering soul? Please reply directly to me. Thanks. === Cory Current ------------------------------------------------ 1999 Chicago World's Director http://www.footbag.org/worlds99 ------------------------------------------------ Kickers Quarterly Journalist http://www.schwafootbag.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 26 23:15:17 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19952 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 26 May 1999 23:15:17 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu (uclink4.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.39]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14240 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 15:03:16 -0700 Received: from user (209-209-18-116.oak.inreach.net [209.209.18.116]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA28679 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 15:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990526220744.0068c7b4@uclink4.Berkeley.edu> X-Sender: jclor@uclink4.Berkeley.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:07:44 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Jared Clorfeine Subject: RE: [freestyle] selfserves Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >And, I sure as hell would prefer to hit a 30+ contact guiltless combo than busting one phat 5 or 6 add move in front of people. Picking it up, tossing back to myself, only to miss it again. Would you really think a styler who hits blurry blender and drops is better than the guy busting a 30 contact variety of moves?? Blurry Blender is phat, but that is not where it is at. I never said anything like this. I don't like the idea of changing your style to impress people who don't play. For instance, if it so happened that people didn't like 4 add moves because they were too quick to follow, but they loved to see mirages and pendulums and forehead stalls, I would not want to see us all doing the later. >I don't think this is a problem as long as it is their turn to kick. Freestyle is a form of self-expression. Do what you want in a circle, but don't critique those who chose to make the sport more visually appealing for others. But it would be a problem if, for instance, you and I were playing and decided to just kick the bag fifty or a hundred times. There's nothing wrong with me doing that, but that probably wouldn't be the right place for it. > > >I really do not see where you went with this. First it was cheapening of sports. Cool, gotcha. But, then you are pointing out the obviously nonappealing aspects of certain sports, not the cheapening of these sports--except maybe arena football, I agree, it sucks. So, if you do that, you might as well toss in the dropping of a footbag. "Ever see a footbagger or a spectator get excited to see a kid try busting superfly, only to land on his butt with the footbag twenty yards away..." That is essentially what you just described with these other sports, and it is exactly what JR was saying should be curbed when kicking in front of spectators. Sounds like you might agree but do not want to admit it. I don't know. Though I know I am done bantering about this topic. Sorry. My point was that in the few sports that are very popular, many of the spectators do not really understand the sport, so altering it to please them is not necessarily a good idea. As you said, just because other people like that attempted superfly does not mean you should do it. And just because other people don't like to see a hand pass, does not mean you shouldn't do it. People said one of the reasons not to self serve, or catch the bag with your hand, is that people walking by don't like it, and I think that's silly. Jared From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 26 23:16:01 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19965 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 26 May 1999 23:16:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from po0.wam.umd.edu (po0.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.162]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15165 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 15:15:26 -0700 Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (root@rac9.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.149]) by po0.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22722 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:42:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Procrastinator the VIIIth Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA01678 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:42:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01674 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:42:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:42:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905262142.RAA01674@rac9.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] guat bags versus facile and tevas vs lavers Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey someone earlier refused to let the bag drop about guats being as good as faciles. and i think maybe it should be considered that if one prefers tevas to lavers, there really doesn'thave to be a difference. at least for me, the problem with knit bags on my lavers or other shoes i kick in ( not ever tevas on these bleached ivory colored pups) is that the knit surface actually slips off my foot surfaces. on the insides and, when i used to kick with knot bags, outsides of my shoes. BUT, if i had been kikcing with tevas, i doubt thhis would have been a problem, since they have ledges on both sides. just an idea. and, please, everyone out there- the only worthy footbag inofrmation source on the web right now is www.footbag.org www.footbag.net is looking to develop some new facets, check it out when you can. but for now, its all about www.footbag.org and don't even mention the other one. you know. that 'c' thing. l8r- vince From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Wed May 26 23:59:28 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20469 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Wed, 26 May 1999 23:59:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20466 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 23:59:27 GMT Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16372 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 16:02:02 -0700 Received: from [216.111.252.252] (dhcp216-111-252-252.atext.com [216.111.252.252]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10854 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 16:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 16:02:07 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Western Regionals freestyle -- important info Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Folks, Two things for those freestylers among you who are competing at this weekend's Western Regionals: (1) If you are *only* playing freestyle (no net), you have a little more time to register than the others -- since freestyle is Sunday and Monday, you have until 5pm on Saturday to register. You must do so either at the pre-registration party on Friday night, or any time during the day Saturday at the main information booth. If you do not register by 5pm on Saturday, you will not be allowed to compete. Please make sure you register and sign a waiver by 5pm on Saturday. (This is good news, since in years past I've required all registration, even if just freestyle, to be done by 9am on Saturday. So you freestylers are lovin' life. :-)) (2) Eric Wulff is organizing a freestyle shred as a separate event for SATURDAY afternoon. This is a great chance to highlight freestyle on Saturday. Note, however, that this is not an official event, though it is sanctioned by the tournament organizers (me). If you're interested in competing in the shred, please talk to Eric on Saturday before 2pm. If you don't know Eric, just ask at the tournament booth when you get to the site. There will probably be a small, separate entry fee for the shred, and a cash prize and/or possibly other prizes for runners-up. For other info including a detailed schedule, please see http://www.footbag.org/events Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 27 03:06:19 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA21447 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 27 May 1999 03:06:19 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f111.hotmail.com [209.185.131.174]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA21228 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 18:34:03 -0700 Received: (qmail 53272 invoked by uid 0); 27 May 1999 01:33:16 -0000 Message-ID: <19990527013316.53271.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 63.13.13.68 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 May 1999 18:33:14 PDT X-Originating-IP: [63.13.13.68] From: "Lee Cooper" To: jclor@uclink4.berkeley.edu, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] selfserves Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:33:14 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org SpAzE WrItEs: Hello all that had to deal with the fact of "self-servers or self-serving." I totally agree that in a circle people tend to self-serve, well newbies do anyways. But luckily I have had the oppurtunity to play with pretty good newbies... I play with newbies that do self-serve but when they see they are really screwing up they give me the courtesy of playing with my own sack. They end up passing it to me where I break out all this wonderful moves and they watch and say, "jesus where the hell did you learn that?" AND I WILL not lie even in a circle I will self-serve to my self but that is because if I serve everyone else I get little to no action, which really pisses me off. I am a very hyper person and when I get going I need to pass out before I am satisfied. AND when newbies interfere they sure do pull the love of my sport with there uneducated kicks and shitty balance. BUT I love playing with newbies because I can teach them as much as I know and hope they get a wonderful experince out of the game I so dearly love. And I know when I find that right footbag master, or just someone who can kick my ass in it I will defantly show common courtisy and serve them to the fullest so I can watch and get all that I can out of the way they move. BUT I have yet to still find someone better then me at the game of FOOTBAG. One day I will find that person and enjoy a great game with them. I remember hearing something about people who get mad at someone who serves by the foot or something, I believe it came from jclor@uclink4.... AND I DO NOT THINK they are trashing the game when THEY pick it up and serve with there hand, well atleast newbies. THE MOST DEVASTING THING THAT I HATE TO SEE IS A NEWBIE SERVE MY FOOTBAG WITH THERE FOOT.... THEY GRIND THE MATERIAL IN THE GROUND AND IT GETS ALL CHEWED UP, I SERIOUSLY DEVELOP A BOND OF LOVE BETWEEN MY FOOTBAGS AND TO SEE THE IRRESPONSIBILITY OF SOMEONE COMMITING ABUSE TO MY FOOTBAGS IS ENOUGH TO MAKE ME CUSS THEM OUT IN RAGE.... CALL ME CRAZY BUT I LOVE MY FOOTBAGS. I HAVE MADE INDIVIDUAL placks for each and everyone of my pales, I name them all and I put the beginning day of play and there death, and how they died, and how much experince I got with them, and and other comments like the first time I preformed a coregraphed skit with them. I AM RAMBLING ON BUT THANK YOU for listening to me. Sincere Player Of Footbag, Lee "SpAzE" Cooper _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 27 06:19:30 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA29336 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 27 May 1999 06:19:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd89.hotmail.com [207.82.252.153]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA25239 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:25:42 -0700 Received: (qmail 44823 invoked by uid 0); 27 May 1999 04:24:41 -0000 Message-ID: <19990527042441.44822.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.27.84.104 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:24:40 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.27.84.104] From: "Brian Waligorski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] To shoe or not to shoe Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:24:40 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey peeps: I have a wonderful pair of Lavers :) and I have them all modified nice like, but for toe sets and stuff like that the bag gets caught on the shoe where the laces pull back the sides. I have seen some people without those little flaps on the outside of the toe box, but I haven't the slightest idea what I am supposed to cut if anything at all. How much do I cut? Where do I cut? Should I cut? Help! :) Brian W Also, what the heck are you guys talking about when you say "guiltless"? Thanks! _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 27 06:20:13 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA29351 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 27 May 1999 06:20:13 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA25374 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:28:52 -0700 Received: from spike.excite.com ([199.172.152.97]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990527042824.ECQH13604.fortune@spike.excite.com> for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:28:24 -0700 From: "Allan Haggett" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] self-serves Message-Id: <927779304.14805.273@excite.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:28:24 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 204.174.243.73 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jared and all y'all!! >I'm saying Idon't think it's >good tochange your style, from the kinds of things we >ormally do the the >kinds of things you think will impress them. A)Word, kinda. Never sacrifice what feels good for what doesn't feel right. B)DO NOT ever try to do a demo, busk or present footbag in any way if you ever expect it to go over well. C)READ the listing from the last few days and take to heart the point that is consistent between almost all responses to this string: It depends on where you are, what your purpose is, and who else is around that ultimately decides how you play and the rules you play by. Learn how to adapt. D)Try playing with a smile on your face:~) >1.) If you are new---free reign >2.) If you can already do a litte freestyle----3 self >serves--for any run >under 9adds3.) If your guiltless---give it up-- >4.) Only exceptions are for crazy mad tricks or cool >tricks that someone just learned that day or that week. Words to live by. for now.... Allan K. Haggett SoleAir Productions Victoria, BC _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 27 06:20:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA29360 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 27 May 1999 06:20:18 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from smtp3.mindspring.com (smtp3.mindspring.com [207.69.200.33]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26188 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 22:17:17 -0700 Received: from smegma (user-2ivf2gc.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.138.12]) by smtp3.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA24275 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 01:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990527011647.00800580@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: ecrvich@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 01:16:47 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: RE: [freestyle] selfserves In-Reply-To: <19990527013316.53271.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >CRAZY BUT I LOVE MY FOOTBAGS. I HAVE MADE INDIVIDUAL placks for each and >everyone of my pales, I name them all and I put the beginning day of play >and there death, and how they died, and how much experince I got with them, Goodness gracious me, this is so coincidental! I have an almost identical loving bond to my footbags as well. All of mine each have their own name and hand-calligraphed certificate of birth. I sometimes clothe them in 19th century fashion and stage a ballroom dance of lavish proportions, where they spin and roll to Strauss waltzes for hours on end. Afterwards, I clean them up, put them in their miniature silken pajamas (complete with embroidered monograms), and take them into my bedchamber. That's usually when they talk to me. They say things like "steer into oncoming traffic", "use the gun", and "buy a bigger gun". But since I'm drifting off to sleep while they talk, most of their words only reach my subconscious. More to the topic at hand, I think the term "self-serving" is revealingly self-descriptive. In addition, I also feel very strongly about many other important topics mentioned in this forum recently. VERY strongly. -- Ernest M. Crvich Durham, NC Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 27 06:25:30 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA29382 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 27 May 1999 06:25:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29379 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 06:25:30 GMT Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA27304 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 22:28:01 -0700 Received: from [216.111.252.252] (dhcp216-111-252-252.atext.com [216.111.252.252]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02003 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 22:27:07 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990527042441.44822.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <19990527042441.44822.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:28:12 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] To shoe or not to shoe Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 9:24 PM -0700 5/26/99, Brian Waligorski wrote: >I have a wonderful pair of Lavers :) and I have them all modified >nice like, but for toe sets and stuff like that the bag gets caught >on the shoe where the laces pull back the sides. I have seen some >people without those little flaps on the outside of the toe box, but >I haven't the slightest idea what I am supposed to cut if anything >at all. How much do I cut? Where do I cut? Should I cut? Help! :) Read: http://www.footbag.org/faq/#C6 which refers you to: http://www.footbag.org/faq/lacing.html which may or may not be up to date (including how to cut and modify the shoes). If you find errors, don't bother telling me because I won't have time to update this until next month. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 27 06:43:58 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA29475 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 27 May 1999 06:43:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (jsishipping.com [207.33.33.34]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA28129; Wed, 26 May 1999 22:37:49 -0700 Received: from jsisfo22.jsishipping.com ([207.33.33.89]) by jsisfomg1.jsishipping.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14027) with SMTP id AAA197; Wed, 26 May 1999 22:37:30 -0700 From: "Eric Wulff" To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] Shred Contest at Westerns.. yes Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:37:32 -0700 Message-ID: <002e01bea803$04dccca0$592121cf@jsisfo22.jsishipping.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org For any stylers/shred heads attending the Western Regionals There will be a shred contest at Westerns. 4:00 on Saturday.. 1 round Register with myself.. Eric Wulff (entrance fee for tourney not necessary however $5 fee for shred is) There will be announcements for registration Saturday afternoon. I'll be at the site around 1:00. 45 seconds.. adds +(ratio x variety) tricks less than 3 adds count towards your adds and ratio but not towards variety. video verified final results will be available Sunday $5 to enter.. Winner takes all.. See ya there Eric "Ironman" Wulff From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu May 27 23:00:58 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA01932 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 27 May 1999 23:00:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA13610 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 12:16:27 -0700 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by theglobe.com; Thu May 27 12:15:33 1999 To: jclor@uclink4.berkeley.edu, freestyle@footbag.org, "Lee Cooper" Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:15:33 -0700 From: "Ian Dubman" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: RE: [freestyle] selfserves X-Sender-Ip: 128.206.120.62 Organization: E-Mail @ theglobe.com (http://www.globe-mail.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >I play with newbies that do self-serve but when they see they are >really screwing up they give me the courtesy of playing with my own sack. Sounds like that might be a bit personal for the list. >I have yet to still find someone better then me at the game of FOOTBAG. One >day I will find that person and enjoy a great game with them. Head to worlds and you will most likely see, and kick with, MANY people who are your level or better. I would just say, "many people better", but since I do not know you, I have no clue how well you kick. ;-) Late, Ian D. MUFF PS If you go to UC-Berkeley(I think that is what your address says), I beleive the #2 ranked guy (Regulator)in the World goes there also--I could definitely be mistaken on this one, as I do not know him personally. "Free web-based email available now at http://www.theglobe.com" From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri May 28 00:02:52 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA02341 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 28 May 1999 00:02:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (Market.NET [140.174.206.2]) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02338 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 00:02:51 GMT Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00578 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 16:05:30 -0700 Received: from [216.111.252.252] (dhcp216-111-252-252.atext.com [216.111.252.252]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25135 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 15:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:29:30 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: RE: [freestyle] selfserves Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 12:15 PM -0700 5/27/99, Ian Dubman wrote: >PS If you go to UC-Berkeley(I think that is what your address says), >I beleive the #2 ranked guy (Regulator)in the World goes there >also--I could definitely be mistaken on this one, as I do not know >him personally. Heh heh heh. Little do you know that Ryan is Jared's mentor. Hence the attitude. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sat May 29 14:47:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07383 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sat, 29 May 1999 14:47:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f154.hotmail.com [209.185.131.217]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA32055 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 05:56:12 -0700 Received: (qmail 53051 invoked by uid 0); 29 May 1999 12:55:34 -0000 Message-ID: <19990529125534.53050.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 195.173.239.191 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 May 1999 05:55:33 PDT X-Originating-IP: [195.173.239.191] From: "Frank Gutowski" To: jroberts@acsdallas.com, freestyle@footbag.org, jclor@uclink4.berkeley.edu Subject: RE: [freestyle] selfserves Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 05:55:33 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org To all, Well said James, I think you got a knack for responding to the "can of worms. Frank