From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jul 1 19:36:13 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12936 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 19:36:13 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f202.hotmail.com [216.32.181.202]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA30595 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:32:27 -0700 Received: (qmail 34697 invoked by uid 0); 1 Jul 1999 03:31:53 -0000 Message-ID: <19990701033153.34696.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.167.115.31 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:31:52 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.167.115.31] From: "Ryan Britt" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Dexterity notation Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:31:52 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, I had a question about the notation used to describe moves. [dex] is used to denote circling the footbag, but how do you know WHERE to circle the bag. I've seen videos of moves, and the dexterities are always done using different sections of the circling leg. What I'm asking is: how can you tell whether to circle the bag with your foot, with the calf portion of the leg, or with the crook of the knee? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. - Ryan Britt _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jul 1 23:49:23 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15752 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 23:49:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10836 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:15:31 -0700 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (209-107-90-078.chicago.verio.net [209.107.90.78]) by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA09109; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:15:04 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990701033153.34696.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:19:29 -0600 To: "Ryan Britt" , freestyle@footbag.org From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Dexterity notation Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Ryan! At 8:31 PM -0700 6/30/99, Ryan Britt wrote: >Hi, I had a question about the notation used to describe moves. [dex] is >used to denote circling the footbag, but how do you know WHERE to circle the >bag. I've seen videos of moves, and the dexterities are always done using >different sections of the circling leg. What I'm asking is: how can you >tell whether to circle the bag with your foot, with the calf portion of the >leg, or with the crook of the knee? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. For that, you need to skip the Job's notation and go to longhand notation. My favorite is longhand, I always seem to leave my secret decoder ring at home whenever I run into jobs notation. :-) Perhaps someday, they will work that into the notation, but keep in mind that some people do mirages where they circle the bag with their ankles, others do them up over their calf. Mostly a style thing. That goes for other dex's too. Hope that helps! See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Thu Jul 1 23:59:48 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15806 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 23:59:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14337 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:01:29 -0700 Received: from [205.180.137.228] (dhcp-205-180-137-228 [205.180.137.228]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07466; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:01:14 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:02:38 -0700 To: "Ryan Britt" , freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Dexterity notation Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:19 PM -0600 7/1/99, Scott Davidson wrote: >At 8:31 PM -0700 6/30/99, Ryan Britt wrote: > >Hi, I had a question about the notation used to describe moves. [dex] is >>used to denote circling the footbag, but how do you know WHERE to circle the > >bag. >For that, you need to skip the Job's notation and go to longhand notation. >My favorite is longhand, I always seem to leave my secret decoder ring at >home whenever I run into jobs notation. :-) Ryan, you can just ignore Scott. He didn't even begin to answer your question. He has this hair up his you-know-what about writing the word "dexterity" in abbreviated form "dex". It reminds him too much of that shorthand course he took that he flunked, which is why he's cleaning bathrooms and not working as a secretary as he had always dreamed. But I digress. When we say "circling" the bag, we just mean "crossing the plane of the bag's trajectory". It's hard to put into words -- you kind of have to see it. But any time your leg goes under, over, or around the bag on the way to catching or kicking it with your foot, that's a "dexterity". Look at http://www.footbag.org/movelist/ for the "moves on video" section to see some moves and then compare their notation to the way the person is hitting it so you can understand what each component of the move is. The explanations we wrote up on the move list of what the five components of difficulty are is a little weak, admittedly. It would be good to do a whole tutorial on each, but nobody ever has the time. Steve From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Fri Jul 2 08:04:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA16943 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:04:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ego.mind.net (IDENT:mail@ego.mind.net [206.99.66.9]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA18843 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 00:00:27 -0700 Received: from 206.151.158.6 (ip00.mind.net [206.151.158.6]) by ego.mind.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA06886 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 00:00:24 -0700 Message-ID: <377C00D5.2E60@mind.net> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 23:59:28 +0000 From: Forest Schrodt X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] First 7 hit! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Greetings fellow stylers. I was talking on the phone this evening with the hein Boulder Colorado boyz(Elli, Red, Dave, Bryan) and apperently in their last shred session Die Hard Highlander Dave hit the first 7 add trick ever hit. They have it on video and appearently it was hit cleanly within a 20+ contact string. The move? Well I really shouldn't say, Dave wanted me to hold off, but I will anyway because it is so tight. Stepping ducking paradox torque Let me know if anyone else has hit a 7 before. I heard Kenny had come very close several times but never hit. See you all at Worlds Forest Schrodt From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jul 4 19:27:58 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06485 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:27:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web4.rocketmail.com (web4.rocketmail.com [205.180.57.78]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA05533 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:25:13 -0700 Message-ID: <19990703042409.20618.rocketmail@web4.rocketmail.com> Received: from [203.109.234.247] by web4; Fri, 02 Jul 1999 21:24:09 PDT Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:24:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Hans Freller Subject: [freestyle] whirl direction? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Does the direction of the dex in a whirl matter, and if so, does it change the add difficulty? Hans Freller From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jul 4 19:28:23 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06495 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:28:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from postoffice2.direcpc.com (mail.direcpc.com [198.77.116.30]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29528 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:25:05 -0700 Received: from hh1114112 ([206.71.114.112]) by postoffice2.direcpc.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-45425U50000L50000S0) with SMTP id AAA26502; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:25:59 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990702142613.00929940@mail.direcpc.com> X-Sender: mavery@mail.direcpc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 14:27:28 -0700 To: Forest Schrodt , freestyle@footbag.org From: Matt Avery Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! In-Reply-To: <377C00D5.2E60@mind.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sup guys, Im pretty sure Kenny did bust out a 7 add in the Raw Shred video, but I think after all the debating, the move is now only 6 add. Still, he did hit it when it was considered 7. Matt At 11:59 PM 7/1/99 +0000, Forest Schrodt wrote: >Greetings fellow stylers. I was talking on the phone this evening with >the hein Boulder Colorado boyz(Elli, Red, Dave, Bryan) and apperently in >their last shred session Die Hard Highlander Dave hit the first 7 add >trick ever hit. They have it on video and appearently it was hit >cleanly within a 20+ contact string. The move? Well I really shouldn't >say, Dave wanted me to hold off, but I will anyway because it is so >tight. Stepping ducking paradox torque > Let me know if anyone else has hit a 7 before. I heard Kenny had come >very close several times but never hit. > See you all at Worlds > Forest Schrodt From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jul 4 19:28:26 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06505 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:28:26 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Damon Mathews Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02691 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 17:32:30 -0700 Received: from Damonmath@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id gNQHa22295 (14431); Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <950031d0.24aeb3c7@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:31:03 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! To: fastfoot@mind.net, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Let me know if anyone else has hit a 7 before. I heard Kenny had come >very close several times but never hit. See you all at Worlds Forest Schrodt I have a 7 add. I didn't hit in in a 20+ combo string, but I have hit it several times in combination. Its a blurry symposium reverse whirling x-body rake. The witch doctor. notation: clip>op in[dex]> no plant while, wait, op reverse whirl motion(not butterfly)[sym][pdx][dex]> op x-body rake[bod][xbd][del]. Demon Damon From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jul 4 19:28:30 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06515 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:28:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ra.nilenet.com (root@ra.nilenet.com [204.227.31.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21457 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 20:56:01 -0700 Received: from unknown (slip9.den.nilenet.net [206.247.98.9]) by ra.nilenet.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id VAA22918; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 21:52:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19990621045522.55714.qmail@hotmail.com> References: Conversation <19990621045522.55714.qmail@hotmail.com> with last message <19990621045522.55714.qmail@hotmail.com> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "Lynton Stephens" , freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Daryl Genz" Subject: Re: [freestyle] 2 bag juggling & smear with a dive Date: Sat, 03 Jul 99 21:52:08 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eniac.yak.net id EAA05297 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Lynton, Two bag juggling is EASY (after you've dropped it several hunderd times). It's just toe stalls. The only trick is that you only watch the bag that's in the air, never your catch foot. Try three bags for fun sometime... Genzu ---------- > Hi Stylers- > I've seen a couple of people juggle 2 bags, but I've never heard any > explaination of how it done. Does any body have any hints on learning > this?? From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jul 4 20:16:58 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06697 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 20:16:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from homer.tomahawktech.com ([206.191.48.232]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31310 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 12:06:25 -0700 Received: from dave (Administrators@localhost) by homer.tomahawktech.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA00307 for ; Sun, 04 Jul 1999 15:08:14 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Message-ID: <001a01bec650$8614dc70$0101010a@dave> From: "Dave Reid" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 15:07:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org -----Original Message----- >I have a 7 add. I didn't hit in in a 20+ combo string, but I have hit it >several times in combination. > >Its a blurry symposium reverse whirling x-body rake. The witch doctor. > >notation: > clip>op in[dex]> no plant while, wait, op reverse >whirl motion(not butterfly)[sym][pdx][dex]> op x-body rake[bod][xbd][del]. > >Demon >Damon That sounds like an awesome move, but isn't a x-body rake a questionable 3 adds? It just doesn't seem to me that a rake can really be x-body. If it can be, then I figure that anyone can now replace their clippers with xbody rakes and increase their add ratio by 1. Can someone clarify this? Not to take anything away from your move... I can only dream of getting to that level. Dave From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jul 4 20:20:29 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06712 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 20:20:29 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web135.yahoomail.com (web135.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.20]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA31473 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 12:18:04 -0700 Message-ID: <19990704191803.16701.rocketmail@web135.yahoomail.com> Received: from [63.14.57.199] by web135.yahoomail.com; Sun, 04 Jul 1999 12:18:03 PDT Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 12:18:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Eli Piltz Subject: [freestyle] Sultans of Shred -- a freestyle odyssey To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, Stylers Boulder Blades Productions has just completed the newest shred video in time for world's. Get ready for a 110 minute video of only the best. Sultans of Shred features many of today's hottest freestylers, including Rippin' Rick Reese, Ryan Mulroney, Brian McKenzie, Chad Devlahovic, Eric Wulff, Dave Holton, Daryl Genz, Sunil Jani, Eli Piltz, Red Husted, Eric Windsor, Tu Vu, Kenny Shults, Jonathan Schneider, Lon Smith, Forest Schrodt, Richie Abshire, Adrian Verhoef, Toby Robinson, Ethan Klein, Ryan Cummings, Derric Scalf, and the one and only Steve Goldberg. Like I said, only the best strings made the cut. Scenes in this film are taken from 1999 at Western Regionals, So. Cal. Championships, Vegas Jam, and private skooling in California, Colorado, and Oregon; all part of an epic road trip. The release party will be in Chicago, so get your copy there. Can't wait to see all you! To all our friends along the way, thanks for helping make it all possible. Eli Piltz From owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sun Jul 4 20:40:57 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eniac.yak.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06787 for FBfreestyle-outgoing@eniac.yak.net; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 20:40:57 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: eniac.yak.net: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Damon Mathews Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31789 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 12:38:59 -0700 Received: from Damonmath@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id yTMNa03723 (3924); Sun, 4 Jul 1999 15:36:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <812afd19.24b111d4@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 15:36:52 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! To: reiddm@magma.ca, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >That sounds like an awesome move, but isn't a x-body rake a questionable 3 >adds? It just doesn't seem to me that a rake can really be x-body. If it >can be, then I figure that anyone can now replace their clippers with xbody >rakes and increase their add ratio by 1. > >Can someone clarify this? > >Not to take anything away from your move... I can only dream of getting to >that level. > >Dave Actually I agree with you. I too believe that X-bdy rake is questionable 3 add. I like pointing out flaws in the add system. This trick actually contains two questionable adds according to the current add system. The first as you so cleverly pointed out is the x-body rake. The second is whether or not a reverse whirl can be paradox. This question has been overlooked. I ask Scott Davidson about it once at a tourney in DC. I asked him if he had tried blurry reverse whirl instead of a blurry whirl to save his knees. He replied, " I don't do any easy 5 adds. " Wow, powerful words from a World Champion. So I explored all the easiest concepts and came up with a number of questionable high add tricks. Easy or not the fact remains that they are still interesting, exciting, and they add to the sport. Pushing the envelope until it tears apart and has to be replaced with a box. Don't worry, you haven't taken anything away from this trick that wasn't already stipped away perform the move surfaced. Demon Damon From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Jul 6 21:23:14 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA00502 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 21:23:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199907070423.VAA00502@email.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 13:37:37 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] E-mail list temporarily down Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The freestyle list has been down for a day, but never fear, no mail was lost. More later. Expect to start seeing the postings for the last day sometime later tonight. Things are working again but I'm out of time to go back and resend all the previous day's mail. Thanks. Steve From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 08:08:43 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01328 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:08:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199907071508.IAA01328@email.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f X-Originating-IP: [165.247.43.195] From: KeN Somolinos To: Damonmath@aol.com, reiddm@magma.ca, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 12:44:37 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all. Argh. Just when I'm getting excited about Worlds next week, all this moronic add business pops up. OK, first of all, adds have nothing to do with difficulty. Nothing. Two unrelated concepts. Adds are components of a move, and while it is sometimes the case that a move with more add components is more difficult than one with fewer, counting adds is by no means an intelligent way of calculating move difficulty. Damon said: I like pointing out flaws in the add system. This trick actually >contains two questionable adds according to the current add system. The >first as you so cleverly pointed out is the x-body rake. The second is >whether or not a reverse whirl can be paradox. Alright, the move in question sounds difficult, but as of right now there is no paradox add involved, since reverse whirl cannot be considered paradox in the current add system. So the move technically has 6 add components. Damon also recounted this story: I ask Scott Davidson about it once at a tourney in DC. I asked >him if he had tried blurry reverse whirl instead of a blurry whirl to save >his knees. He replied, " I don't do any easy 5 adds. " Wow, powerful words >from a World Champion. This obsession with adds goes counter to the creative spirit of freestyle. This last weekend in Montreal, I saw Marc Conte busting out Bubba Flux, which is a 4 add move, but is bounds harder than, say, paradox da da curve, which is now considered a 5 add move (but technically should be 6 due to the symposium butterfly at the end). Which brings up another flaw with people's interpretation of the add system. Why do people arbitrarily ignore adds, just because they don't "feel" difficult. According to the definition of symposium, a da da curve is 5 adds. Toe set fog is 4 adds. Again, adds don't equal difficulty. Then Damon said: Easy or not the fact remains >that they are still interesting, exciting, and they add to the sport. >Pushing the envelope until it tears apart and has to be replaced with a box. Right on. If everyone does the same exact moves and combos, the sport will never grow in any interesting manner. Ken "CF" Somolinos nyfd From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 08:09:11 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01337 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:09:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199907071509.IAA01337@email.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: "Dave Reid" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:00:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ----- Original Message ----- > Argh. Just when I'm getting excited about Worlds next week, all this > moronic add business pops up. OK, first of all, adds have nothing to do > with difficulty. Nothing. Two unrelated concepts. Adds are components of > a move, and while it is sometimes the case that a move with more add > components is more difficult than one with fewer, counting adds is by no > means an intelligent way of calculating move difficulty. Sorry, I knew I was stirring the pot, but the list has been too boring lately! :) But seriously, people keep saying that adds don't equal difficulty and then they turn around and say "The really good players are all going tripless". Or "You can't join this circle unless you go guiltless". Even as a newbie, I understand that adds do not equal difficulty, but I find it mad that given that fact, kickers are categorized according to what number of adds they can hit. I do form my own opinion of which kickers are best, and I have the advantage often times of not even knowing how many adds the moves are. I am knowledgable enough to appreciate it when people use both sides equally and vary their moves alot, so the adds count doesn't blind me. So I say that if people want to get off of the add fixation that they should set different plateaus of skill. How about this: 1. do an equal number of dexes with each leg in all strings 2. do an equal number of double dexes with each leg in all strings 3. do an equal number of left and right spins in all strings 4. don't repeat any move on the same side in any string I know you guys do aspire to goals like these, but if you want newbies to stop trying to hit 5 add moves, then you should stop proclaiming guiltless and tripless as skill levels. Stir stir stir, Dave From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 08:45:24 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02601 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:45:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199907071545.IAA02601@email.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f X-Originating-IP: [165.247.43.195] From: KeN Somolinos To: Damonmath@aol.com, reiddm@magma.ca, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 12:44:37 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all. Argh. Just when I'm getting excited about Worlds next week, all this moronic add business pops up. OK, first of all, adds have nothing to do with difficulty. Nothing. Two unrelated concepts. Adds are components of a move, and while it is sometimes the case that a move with more add components is more difficult than one with fewer, counting adds is by no means an intelligent way of calculating move difficulty. Damon said: I like pointing out flaws in the add system. This trick actually >contains two questionable adds according to the current add system. The >first as you so cleverly pointed out is the x-body rake. The second is >whether or not a reverse whirl can be paradox. Alright, the move in question sounds difficult, but as of right now there is no paradox add involved, since reverse whirl cannot be considered paradox in the current add system. So the move technically has 6 add components. Damon also recounted this story: I ask Scott Davidson about it once at a tourney in DC. I asked >him if he had tried blurry reverse whirl instead of a blurry whirl to save >his knees. He replied, " I don't do any easy 5 adds. " Wow, powerful words >from a World Champion. This obsession with adds goes counter to the creative spirit of freestyle. This last weekend in Montreal, I saw Marc Conte busting out Bubba Flux, which is a 4 add move, but is bounds harder than, say, paradox da da curve, which is now considered a 5 add move (but technically should be 6 due to the symposium butterfly at the end). Which brings up another flaw with people's interpretation of the add system. Why do people arbitrarily ignore adds, just because they don't "feel" difficult. According to the definition of symposium, a da da curve is 5 adds. Toe set fog is 4 adds. Again, adds don't equal difficulty. Then Damon said: Easy or not the fact remains >that they are still interesting, exciting, and they add to the sport. >Pushing the envelope until it tears apart and has to be replaced with a box. Right on. If everyone does the same exact moves and combos, the sport will never grow in any interesting manner. Ken "CF" Somolinos nyfd From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 08:45:28 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02605 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:45:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199907071545.IAA02605@email.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: "Dave Reid" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:00:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ----- Original Message ----- > Argh. Just when I'm getting excited about Worlds next week, all this > moronic add business pops up. OK, first of all, adds have nothing to do > with difficulty. Nothing. Two unrelated concepts. Adds are components of > a move, and while it is sometimes the case that a move with more add > components is more difficult than one with fewer, counting adds is by no > means an intelligent way of calculating move difficulty. Sorry, I knew I was stirring the pot, but the list has been too boring lately! :) But seriously, people keep saying that adds don't equal difficulty and then they turn around and say "The really good players are all going tripless". Or "You can't join this circle unless you go guiltless". Even as a newbie, I understand that adds do not equal difficulty, but I find it mad that given that fact, kickers are categorized according to what number of adds they can hit. I do form my own opinion of which kickers are best, and I have the advantage often times of not even knowing how many adds the moves are. I am knowledgable enough to appreciate it when people use both sides equally and vary their moves alot, so the adds count doesn't blind me. So I say that if people want to get off of the add fixation that they should set different plateaus of skill. How about this: 1. do an equal number of dexes with each leg in all strings 2. do an equal number of double dexes with each leg in all strings 3. do an equal number of left and right spins in all strings 4. don't repeat any move on the same side in any string I know you guys do aspire to goals like these, but if you want newbies to stop trying to hit 5 add moves, then you should stop proclaiming guiltless and tripless as skill levels. Stir stir stir, Dave From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 08:52:30 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02635 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:52:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199907071552.IAA02635@email.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:25:24 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Hans Freller cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] whirl direction? MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Does the direction of the dex in a whirl matter, and > if so, does it change the add difficulty? Yes. A regular whirl goes in-out, or front to over the top. > > Hans Freller > From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 08:56:47 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02649 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:56:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199907071556.IAA02649@email.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:59:51 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Dave Reid cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > That sounds like an awesome move, but isn't a x-body rake a questionable 3 > adds? It just doesn't seem to me that a rake can really be x-body. If it > can be, then I figure that anyone can now replace their clippers with xbody > rakes and increase their add ratio by 1. > > Can someone clarify this? In a cross body rake the bag starts out on one side of your body and then a contact is made behind you that carries the bag to the other side of your body. This add which in my opion isn't really cross body is given a cross body add for lack of a better add catagory. It is almost a body add because it is similar to a spin, like in an osis. In any case I think it is definatly a 3 add move. I think that doing a cross body rake instead of a clipper at the end of a move is defently adds another component. In some cases it might be easier to do a rake instaed of a clipper (I think it is harder in most cases, for me anyway) but adds rate the number of components in a trick, not necessarily the difficulty. I think the paradox add in the syposium rev. whirl is questionable. The move sounds badass though, espesialy if it is all clean. That is crazy. On the subject of 7 add moves, someone on this list (I don't remember who it was but he was from Canada I think) claimed to have hit a 8 add move. The 8 add move was a ducking butterfly symposium paradox twirl, or clip > duck [bod] > op out [dex] > (no plant while) op rev. swirl [dex][bod][bod] > op osis [bod][xby][del]. This move would be 8 adds as long as the twirl got the paradox add. I assumed he could hit it without the duck as well, which would make it 7 add. I think it would be very difficult to hit this move cleanly. You would have to jump very high in order to make the twirl clean. Sorry for the length of this message but I had a lot to talk about. Later From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 08:57:14 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02660 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:57:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199907071557.IAA02660@email.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:28:27 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Matt Avery cc: Forest Schrodt , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Im pretty sure Kenny did bust out a 7 add in the Raw Shred video, but I > think after all the debating, the move is now only 6 add. Still, he did hit > it when it was considered 7. Kenny Shultz did not do a 7 add move or any move that could even be questionably 7 adds on the Raw Shred video. He did do a blurry whirling-swirl, but that is clearly 6 adds. Tuan Vu does a pogo paradox torque, which was once considered 7 adds but I think that poeple don't count the symposium add in the pogo anymore. Later From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 08:57:19 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02665 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:57:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199907071557.IAA02665@email.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 22:52:47 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] whirl direction? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hans Freller wrote: > > Does the direction of the dex in a whirl matter, Yes. A whirl is an IN dexterity (mirage direction). If you go the other way (OUT or butterfly direction) it is called a reverse whirl. All whirl/rev whirl dexterities are done with the lower leg. Your knee moves slightly... this is in sharp contrast to a mirage or butterfly where the knee must move and the upper leg does the dex. > if so, does it change the add difficulty? Adds, no. Difficulty... maybe. A whirl and reverse whirl are about the same difficulty - to me at least. But, when you start doing it paradox, symposium, blurry, etc, I would say that the rev whirl is easier. As for safety, stick with rev whirls and your knees will thank you. Remember, ADDS are only a rough estimate of difficulty. Do what you like to do. If it is new to the people watching, they will probably like to see it. Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 08:57:22 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02675 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:57:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199907071557.IAA02675@email.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 23:02:09 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] xbody pendulums Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jamie coolcordner wrote: > > Hey whats up? Getting ready for worlds, and you? > I asked for this subscription but I don't use the same terms as you guys. > could you send me a list or something and I'm sure I'll catch on to the new > lingo quickly. Everyone on this list that is confused by the move naming or Job's notation should go to http://footbag.org/movelist/ and read about ADDS (the best method of determining difficulty), move components, Job's notation (the absolute BEST thing to happen to written freestyle), and the moves list. You will get ideas you have never had. You will think most of it is impossible, but I promise you that those moves have been hit by someone - except for the Nemisis. > I'm also working on a new trick. In my terms its a Gesture stall suranrap. > In mutual terms it when you stall the hack on the inside of your right foot > behind and to the left of your left leg(which is supporting you)then circle > the hack with you foot and catch it still in a stall behind and to the left > of your left leg. That cross-body (x-bdy) inside delay is called a clipper. Which leg does the dexterity? That is the beauty of Job's notation... there is no confusion about which leg does the dex no matter how complex the move gets. If you are setting, cirling and catching all with the same foot and all in the x-body position, that is a swirl. If you are setting, circling with the other leg, then catching back on the original setting foot, that is either a whirl or a reverse whirl depending on the direction of the dexterity. Read up on the moves list under 3-add moves and you should find this Gesture (jester?) suranrap of yours. I'll see you in Chicago. -Derric DFC From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 08:58:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02690 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:58:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Windsen Pan Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03287 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 17:58:32 -0700 Received: from PHoEtOiD34@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id zYZDa03295 (14428) for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 20:57:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 20:57:33 EDT Subject: [freestyle] SA freestylers To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Is there anyone on this list that is in San Antonio, Tx and can show me some moves sometime? I'm only 14 and have been freestyling for only 3 months and need help on my 3-4 add moves...thanks in advance Windsen Pan (Mobius) From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 09:59:05 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA04152 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:59:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199907071659.JAA04152@email.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 06:15:13 -0700 From: "Ian Dubman" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! X-Sender-Ip: 128.206.120.62 Organization: E-Mail @ theglobe.com (http://www.globe-mail.com:80) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Damon Mathews wrote: I ask Scott Davidson about it once at a tourney in DC. I asked >him if he had tried blurry reverse whirl instead of a blurry whirl to save >his knees. He replied, " I don't do any easy 5 adds. " Wow, powerful words >from a World Champion. Hehe... What would be an easy 5-add move?? I know of a couple that might be a bit easier than others(hehe, one of which I have seen Scott hit in person), but none, I think, are truly easy in the sense that a person attempting guiltlessness would be ashamed of... My 'pinion, Ian D. MUFF From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 17:30:06 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04701 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:30:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f51.hotmail.com [207.82.250.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA16621 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 06:49:01 -0700 Received: (qmail 76034 invoked by uid 0); 7 Jul 1999 13:48:42 -0000 Message-ID: <19990707134842.76033.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.201.48 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 07 Jul 1999 06:48:41 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.201.48] From: KeN Somolinos To: jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu, mavery@direcpc.com Cc: fastfoot@mind.net, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 06:48:41 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all. Jeremiah riely wrote: >Tuan Vu does a pogo paradox torque, which was once considered 7 adds but I >think that poeple don't count the symposium add in the pogo anymore. Read the definition of symposium, and then tell me that a pogo set does not contain a symposium add. I find pogo paradox mirage to be as easy as blur, and when I really want height on a set sometimes I will pogo instead of blurry because I find it easier to get more power out of it. But none of this changes the fact that in a pogo set, a grounded foot performs a dexterity while the other foot is in the air, only to be immediately planted again. Are pogo sets harder than blurry sets? The answer to this question doesn't really matter, considering how adds don't have anything to do with difficulty. WHat bothers me is people arbitratily discounting and ignoring adds to adjust a move's difficulty. Pogo paradox mirage is a 5 add move. Even though I find it a lot easier than toe set blur, 3 adds in the current system, I am not going to ignore an add to adjust a move's add count to equal its difficulty. Ken CF Somolinos nyfd _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 17:30:13 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04706 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:30:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA15202 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 04:33:05 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id zQWLa07548 (8021) for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 07:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <53945cbb.24b494b5@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 07:32:05 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Ride to Worlds To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Is there anyone out there going to Worlds that is road tripping and going through or near Pittsburgh, PA? I really need a ride. I won't take up much room I promise. Thanks. Owen From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 17:30:16 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04711 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:30:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19363 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:31:24 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990707163137.KCPA5136.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:31:37 -0700 Message-ID: <3783824A.D6611052@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 11:37:30 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeN Somolinos CC: Damonmath@aol.com, reiddm@magma.ca, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! References: <199907071545.IAA02601@email.footbag.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org KeN Somolinos wrote: > > Hi all. > Argh. Just when I'm getting excited about Worlds next week, all this moronic add business pops up. OK, first of all, adds have nothing to do with difficulty. Nothing. Two unrelated concepts. Adds are components of a move, and while it is sometimes the case that a move with more add components is more difficult than one with fewer, counting adds is by no means an intelligent way of calculating move difficulty. > Hey now... easy on the ADD system. Right now, it is the best thing that we've got to determine difficulty. Granted, there are problems with it, but in general, more dexes, more spins, more jumps get more adds. I know that there is a serious problem when it comes to multiple front side dexes ending on toe, but until someone comes up with something better, let's stick to ADDs. > Damon also recounted this story: > I ask Scott Davidson about it once at a tourney in DC. I asked > >him if he had tried blurry reverse whirl instead of a blurry whirl to save > >his knees. He replied, " I don't do any easy 5 adds. " Wow, powerful words > >from a World Champion. And Ken said: > This obsession with adds goes counter to the creative spirit of freestyle. Preach on! Before eliminating the so called "easy fives" people have to get past the easy fours (ripwalk, stepping butterfly, torque, etc) Why worry so much about how many adds you get when a move looks good? > This last weekend in Montreal, I saw Marc Conte busting out Bubba Flux, which is a 4 add move, but is bounds > harder than, say, paradox da da curve, which is now considered a 5 add move (but technically should be 6 due > to the symposium butterfly at the end). Which brings up another flaw with people's interpretation of the add > system. Why do people arbitrarily ignore adds, just because they don't "feel" difficult. According to the > definition of symposium, a da da curve is 5 adds. Toe set fog is 4 adds. Again, adds don't equal difficulty. Bubba Flux. Wow. I've seen JR of Dallas get sooo close on this move, but never quite hit it. I agree that you have just pointed out some obvious flaws with the one and only system we have of determining difficulty. We need a new system. Anyone? But, then again, adds matter only two times a year. At worlds, and at Western. These are the only two tournaments that count adds. So, we need a new system for determining a move's difficulty so that we can use it twice a year. Perhaps that is why no one has put enough time into finding a better system. > Then Damon said: > Easy or not the fact remains > >that they are still interesting, exciting, and they add to the sport. > >Pushing the envelope until it tears apart and has to be replaced with a box. > Right on. If everyone does the same exact moves and combos, the sport will never grow in any interesting manner. > Ken "CF" Somolinos This is it. Freestyle is FREEstyle. Everyone should do what feels natural to them. Who cares about adds? They only count in competition. But... what about guiltless play? Perhaps guiltless should mean what it says... without guilt. If you are in a cirlce of people playing tripless, would you feel guilty for throwing in an atom smasher? You shouldn't. How about if people are in a guiltless circle and someone throws in a mirage? Well, maybe that should cause the person to feel guilty and pass it on. Guiltless is for all levels of play - not just threes or better. I like Jon Schnieder's style of play and he does a lot of 2 and 3 add moves. But, I dare you to tell him that he's guilting. If someone does a move that I can't hit, I'm glad to see it - no matter the ADD count. Like I said before - adds only count twice a year. I'll see everyone in Chicago when I get there on Wed. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 19:53:57 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04994 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:53:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22090 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:41:29 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990707184142.LJNX5136.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:41:42 -0700 Message-ID: <3783A0CA.95AE53ED@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 13:47:38 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeN Somolinos CC: jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu, mavery@direcpc.com, fastfoot@mind.net, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! References: <19990707134842.76033.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org KeN Somolinos wrote: > > Read the definition of symposium, and then tell me that a pogo set does not > contain a symposium add. What do you think about taking the symposium add away from sets? Personally, I don't think that any set can have a symposium component because every set requires a jump. Just because the jump is done a little differently in pogo as opposed to blurry (or stepping), I don't think there is any added difficulty - do a pogo same side butterfly if you don't believe me. Now, if a move is done symposium while the bag is on the way down, that DOES deserve an extra add of difficulty. All of this fits in to my theory of freestyle. The bag goes up (during a set) and then comes down (during the move). If pogo is considered as a set, then it should not get symposium. What is next? Saying that a shooting set is worth 4 adds (2 dexes, a pdx and a symp)? That would be silly, but by the current system it is technically correct. Let's modify the symposium definition to exclude all sets. Comments? -Derric DFC From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 20:55:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA05076 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:55:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA23023 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:22:23 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA16003 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:22:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! Message-Id: <000001177423014220185@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 14:23:05 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, Jul 7, 1999, 1:47:38 PM US CST Derric Scalf wrote: >but by the current system it is technically correct. Let's modify the >symposium definition to exclude all sets. Comments? That sounds like the simplest and most straightforward explanation / determination for this 'problem' that I've heard. The more roundabout explanation that has come up before is the 'maintaining the symposiumness' of the move idea. But it is more complex and lacking compared to a simple 'symposiums don't exist in sets' idea. ______________________________________ Derrick From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Jul 7 21:55:13 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA05162 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 21:55:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1004.mail.yahoo.com (web1004.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.94]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA24151 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:37:47 -0700 Message-ID: <19990707203759.11859.rocketmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [130.212.201.169] by web1004.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 07 Jul 1999 13:37:59 PDT Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:37:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: [freestyle] Freestyle. Duh! To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What's the dilly fellow freestylers? I haven't written in for a while, but I've been listening. Anyway, since I'm not able to make it to worlds this year :( I thought I'd say hi and add my two cents worth to the list. First of all, after recovering from a minor injury, I'm happy to say that I've been shredding a lot lately. I've been kicking with the Ironman, Disco Ninja, Regulator, Ethan Klein, Tu Huge (my new roommate), and Sunil Jani (expect him to be a shoe in for BAP this year), here in my new home of SanFrancisco. Everybody is kicking great. I must say that the Bay Area has the best talent on earth (no offense to Colorado, you guys are awesome). My repetoire is currently under reconstruction (I've been doing the same combos for two years) so hopefully the next time I kick with you guys I'll have some new moves to show off. At any rate, the real reason I wrote in was two give my opinion two the current discussion of guiltless, tripless, blah blah blah. In case you guys forgot about my tantrums about triplessness last year, I'll remind you. Yes, last year I said a bunch of crap about everybody going tripless, yatta yatta yatta. Well, after a years worth of evaluating the subject, my tune has changed. Kind of. Really what I was saying last year was that I thought that eventually tripless would become the standard, and to be in the top circles you would have to be tripless. I really didn't say I agreed with it. Mabey that's how it sounded but that's not what I was saying. I was leaning towards that side of the story but not completely. Well, after listening to all this crap about adds this, and adds that, I got sick of talk about adds and started to ignore them. I still believe in pushing your style to be bigger and better and faster and cooler, but adds just don't mean shit. Freestyle is an expression of your creativity, that shouldn't be hindered by your ability to count to ten. I learned how to do that in pre-school. If a move or a combo is cool then fucking do it. Ignore all this talk about pogo sets being one or two adds and yeah yeah yeah. It doesn't matter. However, don't forget about getting rid of your bail moves and easier tricks. If they are too easy then they aren't fun anymore. That's how I feel personally at least. Well, I'm done ranting for now. If I don't post again before worlds then good luck to everybody. Have fun. Torch _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Jul 8 02:00:04 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA05324 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 02:00:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Damon Mathews Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28469 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:08:59 -0700 Received: from Damonmath@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id 8KGBa03246 (90); Wed, 7 Jul 1999 21:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 21:06:34 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! To: derric@dallasfootbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 7/7/99 2:15:55 PM, derric@dallasfootbag.org writes: <> Ouch! Ever try symposium legbeater where the atomic dexterity is the symposium? Most definitely harder than a regular legbeater. Or symposium whirling swirl? And also, not to burst anyone's bubble about the shooting set, but if performed correctly(and I have not seen one on video or in person performed correctly) the bag travels straight up and can be set head high! It takes a pogo type dex in order to bring both legs over quickly enough to pass over as the bag travels up. The set alone is harder than a double legover or an atomsmasher. The timing is so much faster because both dexterites are performed on the way up while the first dexterity must be pogo(or fast no plant). It may be symposium(if performed correctly). I've performed tricks like pogo symposium stepping mirage, where both dexterities are performed symposium. But the trick can not be performed slurry. Just some thoughts, I can see the argument from both sides. I think with regards to pogo sets or any symposium type set, the question should not be to exclude them, we should never exclude any aspect of the art of FREEstyle. Instead look at it as another aspect of the sport to explore. Demon Damon From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Jul 8 02:30:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA05471 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 02:30:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Ezra Kim Received: (from ezra_kim@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EEYHAL9Z; Wed, 07 Jul 1999 21:37:49 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:40:03 -0700 Subject: [freestyle] guiltless, tripless, etc. Message-ID: <19990709.184004.4638.0.ezra_kim@juno.com> References: <199907072329.QAA04462@email.footbag.org> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-6,8-12 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hi, - i've heard the terms guiltless and tripless used a lot. although i know they are certain types of combos, can someone tell me what the specifics are in order to have a guiltless or tripless combo? and if possible why they are named as such? - one last thing, are there other types of combos like guiltless and tripless? - thanks, - Ezra From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Jul 8 03:17:56 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA05764 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 03:17:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29896 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:22:41 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990708022252.PWTZ5136.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:22:52 -0700 Message-ID: <37840CE5.B2E047EC@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 21:28:53 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ezra Kim CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] guiltless, tripless, etc. References: <199907072329.QAA04462@email.footbag.org> <19990709.184004.4638.0.ezra_kim@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ezra Kim wrote: > i've heard the terms guiltless and tripless used a lot. although i know > they are certain types of combos, can someone tell me what the specifics > are in order to have a guiltless or tripless combo? These terms don't apply to combos so much as they apply to a level of play. Every move has an add count. If all of your moves are three adds or more, that is called guiltless. If all of your moves are 4 adds or more, that is tripless. You could look at it like this: 2 add moves are guilt - so guiltless is without guilt, or without two add moves. 3 add moves are trip - so tripless is without trip, or without three add moves. I think this all started back in the day when people just started linking the harder moves. Two add moves are usually easier than threes, so they called it guilting when you did a two. I like to think of 'guiltless' as playing on a level where you don't feel guilty about continuing your string. Then, tripless came along to mean no threes. But, some threes are harder than some fours. So, if you really just go tripless, you miss out on some variety of the harder unique three add moves. I think that the standard at this year's worlds will be mostly tripless with a few of the harder or nicer looking threes thrown in. Also, you can play tiltless. This means no one add moves. This is a great place to start. I wouldn't reccommend trying to go guiltless until you can reliably hit 20+ contact tiltless strings. As Lon said a while back - skool those 2s. Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Jul 8 03:18:46 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA05774 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 03:18:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA30047; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:30:13 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id yWIGa11809 (535); Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:27:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2c867210.24b5667f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:27:11 EDT Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! To: reiddm@magma.ca, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 7/6/99 11:59:03 PM, reiddm@magma.ca wrote: <> then it wouldn't be freestyle... ~Bryan F. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Jul 8 04:05:41 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA06109 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 04:05:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f140.hotmail.com [209.185.131.203]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA30692 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:16:55 -0700 Received: (qmail 28917 invoked by uid 0); 8 Jul 1999 03:16:41 -0000 Message-ID: <19990708031641.28916.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 203.87.24.171 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 07 Jul 1999 20:16:40 PDT X-Originating-IP: [203.87.24.171] From: Lynton Stephens To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Difficulty & adds. Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 20:16:40 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi freestylers- Derric wrote: >Let's modify the symposium definition to exclude all sets. Comments? I think there's going to be an exception to almost any rule. Try hitting frontside symp toe blur. A typical 3 add move??? The quest for a grand unifying freestyle difficulty rating system is like the search for cold fusion. It aint gonna happen. By all means look for improvements on the current system, but IF it is accuracy of difficulty ratings that you want then I think that you have to have a ROTE system. The BAP rate all moves on a scale from 0 to 10. How else are you gonna cover all your bases, and counter EVERY exception to EVERY rule. e.g. * Stomping toe blizzard & diving reverse mirage is harder than osis & butterfly. * Fairy diving mirage, gyro eggbeater & leaning jowler are harder than ripwalk, blur & pdox whirl. Everyone knows that, why try to elaborately quantify it with some highly esoteric system. As the Torch said so well: >I still believe in pushing your style to be bigger and better and faster >and cooler, but adds just don't mean shit. I think we can agree on something though: Dave hit blurry diving torque!! You are a CHAMPION!! Good luck at the worlds! I'll wait impatiently for the videos. Keep shredding. Lynton - Melbourne Footbag Club (MFC) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Jul 8 17:51:50 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07143 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:51:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Ezra Kim Received: (from ezra_kim@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EEZX4WA3; Thu, 08 Jul 1999 11:16:05 EDT To: freestyle@email.footbag.org Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:18:20 -0700 Subject: [freestyle] some other questions Message-ID: <19990710.081820.4390.0.ezra_kim@juno.com> References: <199907072329.QAA04462@email.footbag.org> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-6,9-19 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hi again. - i have some more questions.... - although there probably is a glaring difference that i don't see: what is the difference between a fairy dex and an atomic set? - what is the whole BAP i know its the Big Add Posse. but is it a club? or something like that? because all i know is that the world's best are in BAP.... - what is inspinning? - lastly.. what is the stepping element? like in a stepping butterfly, etc... thanks... - - --Ezra From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Jul 8 17:51:53 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07148 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:51:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from homer.tomahawktech.com ([206.191.48.232]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA10223 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:03:04 -0700 Received: from pc0966.software.mitel.com (Administrators@localhost) by homer.tomahawktech.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00208 for ; Thu, 08 Jul 1999 12:05:02 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Message-ID: <001701bec95b$6972f120$c136c786@software.mitel.com> From: "Dave Reid" To: References: <2c867210.24b5667f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:03:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ----- Original Message ----- > < set different plateaus of skill. How about this: > 1. do an equal number of dexes with each leg in all strings > 2. do an equal number of double dexes with each leg in all strings > 3. do an equal number of left and right spins in all strings > 4. don't repeat any move on the same side in any string > >> > > then it wouldn't be freestyle... > > ~Bryan F. Then from this logic, it follows that anyone who limits the moves they do by staying guiltless or tripless is not doing FREEstyle. And I AGREE with this. That said, there continues to be a need to define levels of technical skill in order to push players to higher levels. ADDS is clearly not the way to define difficulty, especially in strings of moves, so a new way of doing it needs to be established. Let me give an example of what is happening to new players who want to be good at freestyle. Here are some fictitious, but not unrealistic based on postings to this group, stages of advancement for a new player: 1. learned toe stall and legover with both feet, ATW on one side, mirage on the other side 2. learned clipper on one side, can't seem to get clipper or ATW on the other leg, but who cares - now tiltless 3. just need butterfly or double ATW (or both) to be guiltless, almost have double ATW on the ATW side and butterfly on the clipper side 4. learned butterfly and double ATW, now I am guiltless and can kick with anyone - can occasionally hit clippers on my weak side 5. now learning 4 add moves, pixie butterfly looks like a good place to start... Somewhere around this stage, the player posts to this newsgroup, saying that he has been kicking for 3 months and he needs some help with a 4 or 5 add move. He then gets ripped up by the members of this newsgroup, telling him that he is going about things the wrong way. I could obviously go on forever about this. :) Have fun at worlds, everyone. Wish I could be there. Dave From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Jul 8 20:07:46 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07424 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 20:07:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA12329 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:34:44 -0700 Received: from 37qpu from [207.136.56.49] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.402) with smtp for sender: id ; Thu, 8 Jul 99 12:34:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002001bec968$acd56300$4050fea9@37qpu> From: "Matt Tyson" To: "Bryan Fournier" , , Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:38:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >So I say that if people want to get off of the add fixation that they should >set different plateaus of skill. How about this: >1. do an equal number of dexes with each leg in all strings >2. do an equal number of double dexes with each leg in all strings >3. do an equal number of left and right spins in all strings >4. don't repeat any move on the same side in any string >>> > >then it wouldn't be freestyle... Neither is restricting oneself to a guiltless string.... - Matt From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Jul 8 20:12:55 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07455 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 20:12:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Ryan Sanders Received: from hotmail.com (f275.hotmail.com [207.82.251.166]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA14086 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:46:38 -0700 Received: (qmail 66133 invoked by uid 0); 8 Jul 1999 18:44:49 -0000 Message-ID: <19990708184449.66132.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.188.197.56 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 08 Jul 1999 11:44:49 PDT X-Originating-IP: [205.188.197.56] To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Need the hook up Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 11:44:49 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all, My friend Connar will be heading over to Fort Collins, Colorado next week. He will be there for over a month. If there are any stylers in the area please e-mail me your number. I'm sure Connar will appreciate it. He's guiltless too, if that helps. Have a good day, Ryan Sanders From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Jul 9 03:11:15 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA08009 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 03:11:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990709022252.CSBO5136.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:22:52 -0700 Message-ID: <37855E78.964B593@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 21:29:12 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@email.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] some other questions References: <199907072329.QAA04462@email.footbag.org> <19990710.081820.4390.0.ezra_kim@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ezra Kim wrote: > > i have some more questions.... > - > although there probably is a glaring difference that i don't see: > what is the difference between a fairy dex and an atomic set? Fairy is: toe > same OUT [dex] Atomic is: toe > op OUT [dex] if you haven't taken the time to read the 5 minute tutorial on notation (http://footbag.org/movelist/5-minute-notation.html) then it goes a little something like this. toe > same OUT [dex] means that you set with your toe and the same foot does an out to in dex. toe > op OUT[dex] means that you set with your toe and the other leg does the out to in dex. Both fairy and atomic are types of sets. You can do any number of moves after these - or any - sets. Play around with it and see what you can come up with. > - > what is the whole BAP i know its the Big Add Posse. but is it a club? or > something like that? because all i know is that the world's best are in > BAP.... Then you know it all. BAP is a group of the best shredders in the world. I think there are currently 26 BAP members... many of whom are on this list. I'm sure they'll correct me if I'm wrong about that number. > what is inspinning? An inspin is when you spin toward the bag. Set from a left foot clipper (the right side of your body) and then spin to the right. Inspin is about a spin and a half. If someone really wants to come up with a better system of determining difficulty, inspin should be ranked as harder than a regular spin - where you spin away from the bag (basically, you set behind you). > - > lastly.. > what is the stepping element? like in a stepping butterfly, etc... A quick clipper set mirage. clip > op IN[dex] Stepping usually implies "same side". So, a stepping butterfly would be a step set to a same side butterfly, or clip > op IN [dex] (plant) > same OUT [dex] > op clip A stepping set and a blurry set are one and the same - the only difference comes after the set. As I said earlier, a step implies "same side" whereas blurry generally implies "op side". Make sense? Thanks for the questions. I love the chance to ramble. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Jul 9 05:13:52 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA08679 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 05:13:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA24614; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 21:02:26 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id yFGCa25615 (3925); Fri, 9 Jul 1999 00:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9101a510.24b6cdec@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 00:00:44 EDT Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle] First 7 hit! To: reiddm@magma.ca, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org OK next time I'll keep my mouth zipped....technical is the future though...I won't hate on that...Worlds '99... yeah baby yeah.... ~Bryan F. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Jul 9 18:04:58 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA09319 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:04:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ds9.sci.fi (ds9.sci.fi [195.74.0.54]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA04929 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:59:43 -0700 Received: from artsi (DXVIII.jdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.88.118]) by ds9.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA22313 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 20:00:06 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199907091700.UAA22313@ds9.sci.fi> X-Sender: iikka@itu.st.jyu.fi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 20:01:36 +0300 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Iisak Liukko Subject: [freestyle] easy combos? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by email.footbag.org id RAA09295 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm just one newbie kicker from Finland. I'm really rookie - I can hit most of two add moves but butterfly is the only 3 add move I've hit. I would be very grateful if someone would tell me some easy combos I could hit with one and two add moves. Iisak Liukko From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Jul 9 19:54:41 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09449 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 19:54:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA05946 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:08:20 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990709180844.JMPN5136.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:08:44 -0700 Message-ID: <37863C34.F404BDCD@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 13:15:16 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Iisak Liukko CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] easy combos? References: <199907091700.UAA22313@ds9.sci.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Iisak Liukko wrote: > I would be > very grateful if someone would tell me some easy combos I could hit with > one and two add moves. Anything that works both sides equally is a good combo. Try mirage > around the world > pixie > mirage > atw > pixie. That gets both sides equally. You can also switch the direction on each of the dexes: OUT atw > rev mirage > fairy > OUT atw > rev mirage > fairy. See what I'm saying about both sides? It is very important to learn the basics on both sides. If you don't start that way, it will be harder on you later. Another great drill that will help you later is just the basic clipper > clipper. Try this. Left clipper > right clipper > l clip > l clip > r clip > r clip > then three on the left > then three on the right. Try to work your way up. I've never made it past 5, but just getting that far really improved my game. Enjoy. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Jul 9 22:50:23 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA09676 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 22:50:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11344 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:55:53 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990709215619.LVJE5136.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:56:19 -0700 Message-ID: <37867146.637CEC5A@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 17:01:42 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] move list and popular opinion. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all. With worlds right around the corner, I thought I would ask some questions about the names of moves on the moves list. All that I've done is look over the three add moves, so these questions/comments concern only that section. We always hear about how atom smasher is ripped off by the current add system, but what about that scrambled eggbeater? That is an atom smasher except that the second dex is also out to in. Do people actually hit this?? And the tap... is it still called a tap, or is it tapping mirage? I thought a tap was a set - like an atomic same side sort of thing - kind of like stepping is to blurry... the pixie legover (same side). I once heard that called a Magellan (around the world and back) funny how Magellan never even finished going around one way... Anyway, was I imagining that name, or is that really an unofficial name for the move? How about the fairy same side legover? I've been calling that a reverse Magellan based on the name that I imagined for the first move. And the pixie reverse mirage (same side)... wouldn't that actually be a pixie fairy? Seeing as how it ends on the opposite toe from which it started... The same question applies to a fairy pixie - or should I say fairy same side mirage? And one more - does the name of a double pixie toe change if there is a plant between dexes? By the rational that has been used in naming some of the other moves on the list, should it be a pixie same side mirage? Just some questions to get everyone thinking about freestyle as the pre-worlds week winds down.... -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Jul 9 23:50:16 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA09765 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 23:50:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from chaos.Vivid.com (chaos.vivid.com [207.105.222.69]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11958 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:34:02 -0700 Received: from vivid.com (gwvivid2.platinum.com [207.105.222.53]) by chaos.Vivid.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA17200; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3786791F.83BD27C8@vivid.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:38:51 -0700 From: Ethan Klein X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Derric Scalf CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move list and popular opinion. References: <37867146.637CEC5A@dallasfootbag.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey footbag headz! Derric Scalf wrote: > > We always hear about how atom smasher is ripped off by the current add > system, but what about that scrambled eggbeater? That is an atom > smasher except that the second dex is also out to in. Do people > actually hit this?? I've seen Sunil hit it pretty easily. We always called it "omelette" (reverse miraging reverse mirage) > > the pixie legover (same side). I once heard that called a Magellan > (around the world and back) funny how Magellan never even finished going > around one way... Anyway, was I imagining that name, or is that really > an unofficial name for the move? How about the fairy same side > legover? I've been calling that a reverse Magellan based on the name > that I imagined for the first move. I named Magellen a few years ago (even though it was my friend Alex hitting it ) - it's kind-of a stupid name and yes, we're aware of the historical inaccuracy. maybe "pixie pickup" or "hey, I don't feel like involving my other leg in this move" would be better names...well... maybe not. > > And one more - does the name of a double pixie toe change if there is a > plant between dexes? By the rational that has been used in naming some > of the other moves on the list, should it be a pixie same side mirage? We always referred to double pixie (no plant) into opp toe as "terrage." (toe - same in - same in - opp toe) Genzu then started hitting "enterrage" - which is a terraging leg over. Pretty cool. > Just some questions to get everyone thinking about freestyle as the > pre-worlds week winds down.... DUDE - I'm super psyched to roll to worlds and accualize some serious shred--ding! been shredding hard lately with Huge, Torch, S-nil and "the man, the myth, the legend" Chris Park - who has just moved to San Fran and is resharpening his blades. (yes, he's hitting "Park-walk" all over the place." I'm pumped to shred with all of you Tejas boyz - i know that you have been rampaging through the hein skool sessions. I'm psyched to see the patented Scalf fairy set and maybe get an improptu legbeater lesson. Till wed. night... -- |!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!| Ethan Louis Klein vivid studios ethan@vivid.com From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Jul 10 14:41:57 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00703 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 14:41:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f63.hotmail.com [207.82.251.197]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA19412 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 00:45:44 -0700 Received: (qmail 4912 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jul 1999 07:45:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19990710074539.4911.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.143 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 00:45:39 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.143] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move list and popular opinion. Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 00:45:39 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ethan Klein wrote: >I named Magellen a few years ago (even though it was my friend Alex >hitting it ) - it's kind-of a stupid name and yes, we're aware of the >historical inaccuracy. maybe "pixie pickup" or "hey, I don't feel like >involving my other leg in this move" would be better names...well... maybe >not. I always called this a Hobbit, after JRR Tolkiens(sp) "The Hobbit, or there and back again a Hobbit Holliday". I'm missing worlds this year so I guess I'll see you all in 2000 (unless the world ends before then). -Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sun Jul 11 16:19:52 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA02099 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:19:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA03113 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:34:03 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #39336) with SMTP id <0FEP006016H90Z@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 02:34:21 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 02:34:21 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] move list and popular opinion. In-reply-to: <37867146.637CEC5A@dallasfootbag.org> To: Derric Scalf Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, 9 Jul 1999, Derric Scalf wrote: > We always hear about how atom smasher is ripped off by the current add > system, but what about that scrambled eggbeater? That is an atom > smasher except that the second dex is also out to in. Do people > actually hit this?? I hit this from time to time. I've always considered the second dex to be like the second dex in a blizzard. It feels the same anyway. > the pixie legover (same side). I once heard that called a Magellan > (around the world and back) I always thought pixie legover was toe>same in dex>op out dex> same toe funny how Magellan never even finished going > around one way.. Same with a stepping butterfly or ripwalk or stepping anything for that matter as far as the first dex is concerned anyway. You can apply that todozens of moves I'm sure. > And the pixie reverse mirage (same side)... wouldn't that actually be a > pixie fairy? Seeing as how it ends on the opposite toe from which it > started... The same question applies to a fairy pixie - or should I say > fairy same side mirage? Again I've thought of this as another move; "smear" toe> same in> op out> op toe > And one more - does the name of a double pixie toe change if there is a > plant between dexes? By the rational that has been used in naming some > of the other moves on the list, should it be a pixie same side mirage? I've always considered that the first dex of all these moves was planted and I've called the move above "pixie squared". See ya'll at worlds, BRAD From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Jul 12 15:29:40 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03209 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:29:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f81.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.81]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA24569 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 05:44:22 -0700 Received: (qmail 97647 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jul 1999 12:44:33 -0000 Message-ID: <19990712124433.97646.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 05:44:33 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.62] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move list and popular opinion. Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:44:33 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Again I've thought of this as another move; >"smear" toe> same in> op out> op toe > Hey, What's up? I believe that [toe> same in> op out> op toe] is actually smudge. Smear is [toe> same in> op in> op toe]. At least that I have always known. Late, Ian _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Jul 13 01:41:03 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA03669 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 01:41:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from postoffice2.direcpc.com (mail.direcpc.com [198.77.116.30]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA26599 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:57:51 -0700 Received: from hh1114112 ([206.71.114.112]) by postoffice2.direcpc.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-45425U50000L50000S0) with SMTP id AAA14471; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:59:23 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990712115826.0096f380@mail.direcpc.com> X-Sender: mavery@mail.direcpc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:00:48 -0700 To: "Ian Dubman" , freestyle@footbag.org From: Matt Avery Subject: Re: [freestyle] move list and popular opinion. In-Reply-To: <19990712124433.97646.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 07:44 AM 7/12/99 -0500, Ian Dubman wrote: > > > >>From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Again I've thought of this as another move; >>"smear" toe> same in> op out> op toe >> > >Hey, What's up? I believe that [toe> same in> op out> op toe] is actually >smudge. Smear is [toe> same in> op in> op toe]. At least that I have >always known. >Late, >Ian > Ian, Correct. Ive been hitting something new lately...pixi eggbeater. Anyone have a name for it? Im off to Chocago! Just Shred it. Matt Avery From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Jul 13 04:52:27 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA04033 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 04:52:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06603 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:25:24 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990713032552.OOOI5136.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:25:52 -0700 Message-ID: <378AB316.CBF0449F@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:31:34 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] grand project Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hola! As I'm sure most of you are in Chicago, I don't expect much of a response now, but I'll try... A while back, I heard from a friend who was trying to put together a list of tutorial type messages to help beginners learn the basics. I have since had a hard drive crash and lost all of my bookmarks. I know that over the years, there has been a lot of good advice given over this list, and I think he was on to something trying to get it all in one place. If anyone knows where I can find good advice on moves of any level, please let me know - or just send it to me (derric@dallasfootbag.org). There will soon - I say soon but I mean a month or so - be a page on http://www.dallasfootbag.org that will have advice on many of the more common two and three add moves - clippers, ATWs, legovers, butterflies, osises, etc. Are you tired of seeing people ask the same questions over and over about 'how do I do clippers?' or 'How do I do an osis?' I don't want to discourage questions - that isn't it at all... It is important to note that a lot of new people are joining this list daily and they really don't have any other place to find advice. I love being able to answer questions - kind of an ego thing I guess... Anyway, if you know of a web site (is Hackman broken?) that has advice on moves, pass it along. I would appreciate it. Thanks. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Jul 19 06:52:38 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA02420 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 06:52:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199907191352.GAA02420@email.footbag.org> X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: "Jboy Gran" To: Subject: [freestyle] DLS - Dex Line System Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:52:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Status: Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I just got back from the '99 World Championships. And I firmly believe that we need a whole new concept for the rating system, seen as how with every advancement in the "technology" of moves (paradox, gyro, in-spin, symposium, etc.) we revise the system and make it more complicated so that it will seem right for most moves. My first idea is that we throw away dexes altogether and have a new way of rating the circling of the footbag. What I propose is that we draw an imaginary horizontal line through the footbag, such that it is extending forward and backward along the direction the player is facing. Let's call this the "dex line". In other words, if the bag is on your right side (say, from a left-foot clipper set), the dex line would extend forward from the bag and backwards along the right side of your body. So, here's how difficulty would be assessed using the dex line system: (1) Any time the player's leg crosses the dex line on the underneath side of the bag, the player is awarded one point. (2) Any time the player's leg crosses the dex line on the top side of the bag, he is awarded two points. (3) One extra pont is awarded for each time a different leg crosses it topside in the same move (excluding "complimentary dexes" as described previously by Aaron de Glanville, whereby two legs crossing the dex line are going in exactly the same direction, e.g., "double legover" and "ripwalk"). (4) One extra point is awarded if the leg crosses topside while spinning (torque, gyro mirage). (5) Any time the player's leg crosses the dex line topside while there is no plant on the other leg, he/she recieves a bonus point (symposium). A list of moves and their dex line ratings: (clipper) toe>op clip del = 2 (clipper) toe>same clip del = 3 (butterfly) toe>op out dex>op clip del = 4 (legover) toe>op out dex>same toe del = 3 (atw) toe>same in dex>same toe del = 3 (mirage) toe>op in dex>op toe del = 4 (double legover) toe>op in dex>op out dex>same toe del = 6 (paradon) toe>op out dex>same out dex>op clip del = 7 (toe blur) toe>op in dex>op in dex>op toe del = 8 (paradox mirage) clip>same in dex>op toe del = 5 (blur) clip>op in dex>op in dex>op toe del = 7 (torque) clip>op in dex>(front spin)>op clip del = 6 (gyro mirage) clip>(back spin)>same in dex>op toe del = 5 (gyro pdx mirage) clip>(back spin)>op in dex>op toe del = 6 (ripwalk) = 6 (blurriest) = 8 (pdx torque) = 7 (atom smasher) = 8 Any and all thoughts are welcome. Jboy From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Jul 19 07:12:31 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA02490 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 07:12:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from admin.cgocable.net (admin.cgocable.net [24.226.1.21]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13273 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:14:51 -0700 Received: from [24.226.9.44] (cgowave-9-44.cgocable.net [24.226.9.44]) by admin.cgocable.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10614 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:14:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907142014.QAA10614@admin.cgocable.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:24:21 -0400 Subject: [freestyle] Superstar From: "Neil Bearse" To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Has anyone ever tried the Hacky Sack Superstar model? A store in town just started carrying them... and i was wondering if theyre decent. its a 32 panel bag... and since i cant get my hands on a Juice.. its probly better than my Adidas 14 panel... Any thoughts? Wishin i was in Chicago Neil Bearse From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Jul 19 07:12:34 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA02495 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 07:12:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f139.hotmail.com [207.82.251.18]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA13848 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:42:31 -0700 Received: (qmail 33417 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jul 1999 20:41:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19990714204139.33416.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 161.38.1.102 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:41:38 PDT X-Originating-IP: [161.38.1.102] From: "Troy Wheeler" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] need info Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:41:38 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hola all, first time writing, i am a student at the art institute of pittsburgh, and so far i haven't seen many good hackers up here, so if your pittsburgh give me a call(412)322-2071, Beyond that, i am trying to get a multi-media project together about the sport of footbag, it would be a inter-active piece, i need info, i already have tons from www.footbag.org, and all i need now is info on the sport from players. i have all graphics and some video, and text on the sport, but some quotes and so on would be greatly appreciated, along with video and pics that aren't on the footbag web cite. thanks keep shreddin' troy wheeler From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Jul 19 07:12:38 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA02500 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 07:12:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from nccn2.nccn.net (IDENT:root@nccn2.nccn.net [209.79.220.12]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25960 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:37:25 -0700 Received: from left (tc2-162.nccn.net [209.79.221.162]) by nccn2.nccn.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/*rGs* 99.06.15-NCCN2-) with SMTP id KAA11776 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:37:29 -0700 Message-ID: <001401becfb1$a2551ac0$cbdd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] World Records Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:34:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What is the Ripwalk Record? Barfly?(I hit five totally clean) Torque? Spinning Osis?(five) Pixie Leg over?(twelve) Spinning butterfly?(five) Ducking osis same foot?(seven) Swirl?(three) Twirl? Smear? Symposium Mirage? Shreds(not drills like osai back and forth) Ducking Guiltlessly?(13 mostly different) Consecutive spins?(including osis and rakes) Same Leg Double Dexes? I hope ounce people get back from worlds there will be some new broken records and a large response to this. ShredOnLon From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Jul 19 07:13:12 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA02521 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 07:13:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from homer.tomahawktech.com ([206.191.48.232]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18188 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 09:42:29 -0700 Received: from dave (Administrators@localhost) by homer.tomahawktech.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00273 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 12:43:52 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Message-ID: <000301bed13c$c6a68f80$0101010a@dave> From: "Dave Reid" To: Subject: [freestyle] Results? Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 12:44:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Is anyone out there going to share some worlds results with those of us that couldn't go? Dave From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Jul 19 22:33:36 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA03357 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:33:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from alastair.tir.com (alastair.tir.com [216.40.128.69]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13249 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:18:22 -0700 Received: from jaymolde (port16.mico19.tir.com [216.40.139.155]) by alastair.tir.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA26942 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:17:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001301bed22c$55be9560$9b8b28d8@jaymolde> From: "Jay Moldenhauer" To: Subject: [freestyle] Some results!!!!! Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:19:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BED20A.CC384BE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BED20A.CC384BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Scott Davidson took 1st with a nice routine, Ryan made it very close = with a 2nd, followed by Rick Reese in 3rd. Hope this tides you over til someone with more detailed info comes = along. The Jayman Thanks to the kids. =20 PS, CONGRATULATIONS SCOTT! ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BED20A.CC384BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Scott Davidson took 1st with a nice = routine, Ryan=20 made it very close with a 2nd, followed by Rick Reese in = 3rd.
 
Hope this tides you over til someone = with more=20 detailed info comes along.
 
The Jayman
 
Thanks to the kids. 
 
PS,  CONGRATULATIONS=20 SCOTT!
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BED20A.CC384BE0-- From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Jul 20 17:59:37 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04500 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:59:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA25704 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 04:31:59 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990720113158.IGLT9024.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 04:31:58 -0700 Message-ID: <37945F85.51D6EAAE@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 06:37:41 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lon Smith CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] World Records References: <001401becfb1$a2551ac0$cbdd4fd1@left> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Torque? I think my best is 17. > Swirl?(three) Jon Schneider has got to have this record... I saw him hit 10 or so dragon swirls (set and caught on dragon). > Smear? Only three here. I've seen Daryl do more than that on tape. > Consecutive spins?(including osis and rakes) If you count osis, I've done quite a few. I'm not really sure of the number... How about just consecutive spins or gyro moves? > Same Leg Double Dexes? I think Sunil "Tsunami" Jani - one of the new members of the BAP - hit 20 same leg double dexes in a row... barrages, paradons, terrages, barflies, etc. Worlds was great! I can't wait to see some of the footage from the late night jams... Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Jul 20 17:59:07 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04479 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:59:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1004.mail.yahoo.com (web1004.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.94]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA19690 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:11:09 -0700 Message-ID: <19990720024356.4494.rocketmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [130.212.201.127] by web1004.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:43:56 EDT Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:43:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Ahren Gehrman Subject: Re: [freestyle] DLS - Dex Line System To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org What's the dilly shredders? How was worlds (to those who didn't flake out like I did, sorry about that)? I've already heard of some sick shit that was hit (shooting torque by the Disco Ninja in case you didn't know already). Anyway, I saw this post about a new difficulty rating system and just had to respond (you know me). Jboy Gran writes > I just got back from the '99 World Championships. > And I firmly > believe that we need a whole new concept for the > rating system, Cool, more confusion! > we revise the system > and make it more > complicated so that it will seem right for most > moves. Complicated is a good quality. I think it's logical to judge this system by testing the results to see if they make sense. Let's see, under this new system... > (butterfly) toe>op out dex>op clip del = 4 is equal to > (mirage) toe>op in dex>op toe del = 4 and > (toe blur) toe>op in dex>op in dex>op toe del = 8 has more difficulty than > (blur) clip>op in dex>op in dex>op toe del = 7 O.K. that sounds about right to me (?). How about you guys? > Any and all thoughts are welcome. Let's please give this adds/difficulty system shit a rest. Jboy, I appreciate you trying to improve the sport of freestyle, but difficulty rating systems just hinder the creative force behind it. As far as judging for tournaments, the add system is fine. It gives a basic idea of the difficulty of the routine, which is all that is needed. I'm not going to keep posting about this because I don't want to repeat myself over and over. I already posted about this a couple weeks ago. I would, however, like to hear everybodys opinions on this subject. EVERYBODYS! I know who's on the list and if you don't reply I'll have to lay the smackdown on your roody poo candy ass. If the majority of the people think that the difficulty rating system is that important and should be changed, then come to an agreement, submit it to IFAB and shut the fuck up about it. If the majority of the people think that it's not important, and that creativity should rule, then, once again, shut the fuck up about it. I don't want to have to keep hearing you guys go around and around about this same subject for much longer. It's why a lot of people don't participate in the discussions on here. By the way, good job on Sultans of Shred Eli and Dave. I just watched it and I'm once again inspired. I was already planning to skool my ass of this year, but now I'm even more excited. O.K. I want all your replys ASAP! Torch P.S. Grats to Sunil and Mika as well. Welcome to the big boys circle. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Jul 20 17:59:34 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04492 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:59:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Tony Glick Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.25) id bGIUa11391 (3889) for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:48:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e2c6685.24c52f7a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:48:42 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #689 To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 51 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 99-07-19 11:46:57 EDT, Jboy wrote: << My first idea is that we throw away dexes altogether and have a new way of rating the circling of the footbag. What I propose is that we draw an imaginary horizontal line through the footbag, such that it is extending forward and backward along the direction the player is facing. Let's call this the "dex line". In other words, if the bag is on your right side (say, from a left-foot clipper set), the dex line would extend forward from the bag and backwards along the right side of your body. >> An imaginary line? The only problem I have with that is how difficult it would be to judge during a routine. Considering how fast a leg goes around the bag, it would be hard to decipher. Instead of being concerned with dexterities of one leg, we should be concerned with opposing dexterities...like atom smasher or to put it more general...atomic sets (is that what you meant in point number 3?). That is my story and I am sticking to it. Tony From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Jul 20 17:59:08 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04484 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:59:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from homer.tomahawktech.com ([206.191.48.232]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28613 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:43:16 -0700 Received: from dave (Administrators@localhost) by homer.tomahawktech.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA00301 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:45:02 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Message-ID: <004301bed2c6$de52abb0$0101010a@dave> From: "Dave Reid" To: Subject: Re: [freestyle] World Records Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:45:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I have been keeping a list of consecutive records since last year. The results I have are based on what has been sent my way, and they are by no means official. I will add your numbers to my next posting of this list, Lon. Anyone else who feels they have a rightful place on this list, send me an email, and I will add you. Double ATW: 18 (Rippin) Double Switchover: 5 (Damian) Drifter: 34 (Hu-mungis) Osis: 186 (Kosmo) Whirl: 39 (Regulator) Symposium Mirage: 17 (Regulator) Atom Smasher: 8 (Adrian Dick) Barfly: 9 (Hu-mungis) Blender: 7 (Rippin) Paradox Drifter: 8 (Hu-mungis) Paradox Whirls: 17 (Hu-mungis) Ripwalk: 23 (Genzu