From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:32:08 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10758 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:32:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00356; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:11:46 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990730201136.FCQS22325.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:11:36 -0700 Message-ID: <37A2087E.9A69B862@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:18:06 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Davidson CC: Ian Dubman , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] missing the point (again)... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org the Enlightener said: > Whoever said that ripwalk is the same difficulty as double leg over is > trippin'. Have they tried ripwalk? Have they tried double leg over? > There is at least twice the energy output to complete a ripwalk as a double > legover. Scott is on to something here. Everyone's style IS different. Personally, I find that ripwalk is a good bail if I'm not going to get the double legover. For me, double legover requires twice the energy as ripwalk. But, seeing how many people hit double legover, I was thinking that that was a strong point in JBoy's system - that they were both equal in difficulty. > And whoever said blizzard is harder than > blur is nuts. They are identical difficulties. I do both on both sides > and they feel identical to me. Is that a biased statement? Yes. You go Scott. Again, personal styles come into play. Just out of curiosity, how many of you find it easier to do blizzard as opposed to blur? I can hit blur on demand (the weakside isn't quite on demand yet), but blizzard is still one of those moves that I am excited to hit just once. I was going to suggest a change to JBoys complimentary dex rule that did not remove an add for the reverse mirage. That way, double legover, dada and ripwalk *would* lose an add (as JBoy suggested) but blizzard, smudge or toe blizzard *would not* lose the add. If the majority of players feel the same way as Scott - saying that blizzard and blur are the same difficulty - then this would be a bad change. > This brings me to the ultimate point that noone seems to want to address... > If you skool something hard enough, and master it, then it becomes easy to > you. What is easy to me, is not necessarily easy to you and vice versa. > So the people who are defining the values of the new moves need to be very > careful not to prejudice the values to their styles. So, Scott, are you opposed to any change in the system? Don't you see some strong points in this whole DLS stuff? Personally, I think it sounds like we are finally on to something better than a butterfly dex counting the same as a reverse mirage dex. Or a whirl dex as opposed to a mirage dex. This all goes in to what I was saying a long time ago - an IN dex landing on clipper is harder than an IN dex landing on toe. And, an OUT dex landing on toe is harder than an OUT dex landing on clipper. I think that is basically what the DLS system is saying, but I haven't really heard any clarification on what I was asking earlier about the system. JBoy, are you still out there? Sorry to keep fanning the flames on this subject, but I really enjoy all of this. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:32:30 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10763 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:32:30 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:32:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f169.hotmail.com [216.32.181.169]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA05346 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:25:37 -0700 Received: (qmail 31148 invoked by uid 0); 31 Jul 1999 02:25:02 -0000 Message-ID: <19990731022502.31147.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.31.7.87 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:25:02 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.31.7.87] From: "Brian Mckenzie" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:25:02 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I totally agree that tripplessness detracts from the general variety of a string. First, a lot of us have certain moves that we can only hit off of something easy like a butterfly or paradow mirage. If we go trippless, we often neglect those harder, low percentage moves. Also, the string length is usually shortened by going trippless. I was totally trippless for about six months between 98 and 99 worlds. I switched back to doing threes a month before worlds 99 and don't regret it at all. Strings have gotten longer and more tricks have been hit because of the switch. Maybe in the future tripplessness will be a more realistic possibility, but at this point, the sport just isn't advanced enough to make tripplessness look stylish and smooth. Brian Mckenzie From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:32:42 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10768 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:32:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.118]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06077 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:24:00 -0700 Received: from postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net (postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.247]) by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id UAA28671; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from production@localhost) by postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) id UAA21860; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:24:00 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUAzK8uo85inN2+GhHTC1hU8fvAtxECFQCVxHUDIXMlkLdep0+NqoVjNcIt+w== From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:24:00 -0400 (EDT) To: footbug@hotmail.com (KeN Somolinos) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] missing the point (again)... Message-ID: <23834-37A26C50-16194@postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "KeN Somolinos" 's message of Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:27:47 PDT Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everybody ! Ken Somolinos wrote : >but a da da curve is essentially a >symposium ripwalk, and contains one >more add. I also feel that symposium toe set blur doesn't look better or is harder to hit than regular toe set blur. I say : Now, I just came from the freestyle move list @ www.footbag.org and it "still" lists da da as a 4 (adds that is ), same as ripwalk. I gotta say that I personally prefer the look of symposum toe blur over regular toe blur, by quite a bit. Shred it up, and we'll see you at Funtastik ? GF From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:41:06 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10803 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:41:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pseudo (c392116-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.91.61]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA04672 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001801bedb0e$7a7d2700$1600a8c0@hysterical.net> From: "Ryan Mulroney" To: References: <199907302330.QAA06388@email.footbag.org> Subject: [freestyle] adds shmads Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:37:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org All right, I feel like getting in this whole add argument. For the most part, the only use of the add system is to judge difficulty on paper in competition. In shred circles, adds are totally irrelevent because all shredders know when something is hard or not regardless of the adds assigned. So rather than try to quantify every single category that goes into a final score in a freestyle routine why don't we just do what many smaller tournaments do and use the ranking system. For those of you who dont know, this system involves a panel of judges ranking the competitors in order from best to worst (1 being best, etc.) so that the best competitor will have the lowest score. This may be more proned to bias but it is definitely a whole lot easier than counting everything and adding fifteen minute numbers together to form an error-laidened number close to 27 that will only separate competitors by such a small amount that the winner can be decided by a fraction of a point that could be the result of an accidental tick mark by any number of judges. Anyone who has ever judged knows that it is nearly impossible to count everything totally accurately. With the ranking system, the best routine is recognized and selected...assuming we can round up quality judges, and we were able to this year for finals. Anyway, I just kind of feel that people know what's hard so inventing a system that is supposed to accurately slap a difficulty rating on every move seems both impossible and pointless. Ok, now it is time for people to yell at me...it happens every time I type into this list......Ryan The Regulator Mulroney From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:41:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10808 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:41:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15733 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:22:30 -0700 Received: from rac10.wam.umd.edu (root@rac10.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.150]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16737 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:22:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac10.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac10.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA06071 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac10.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06064 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907311622.MAA06064@rac10.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] DLS system Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org damn this is a great thread. awesome thoughts and words all the way around. my thoughts on the DLS is that it is a good idea for constructing a system of reevaluating the actually difficulty of moves, and that it demonstrates explicitly how difficult that really is. my interpretation of the difficulty assignements given to the first few moves says it needs more careful scrutiny. ( why is one clipper harder than the other? ) but it definitely needs to be considered, and could use CONSTRUCTIVE criticism from anyone who is willing to examine it. Simply put, as much as it seemed i was canning the idea initially, i expected everyone to try and help it become something useful, not blindly support or deny its usefulness. i actually only intended to stop the discussion from evolving into a useless comparison to the current judging system and the current ADS system. The current ADS system is known now by anyone who understands it to NOT BE a difficulty evaluating system. DanK put it best- it is a system for describing distribution among certain add categories. A potential system that might be easy to come up with might simply be to pull out aspects of what JBoy has accurately identified as more difficult elements in dexterous moves and create a new Add category for it/them/ and while we are at it, lets redefine the Body aspect, and re-examine the cross body aspects of the old system. If everyone is still in the heat of this discussion, would people be interested in examining routine scores? oh- also we shoudl probably come up with some system which takes into account chicken maneuvers. have to please everyone you know. l8r vince From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:41:31 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10813 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:41:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from postman.bayarea.net (postman.bayarea.net [205.219.84.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06171 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:31:23 -0700 Received: from baygate.bayarea.net (baygate.bayarea.net [204.71.212.2]) by postman.bayarea.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA51538 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:31:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jboy@bayarea.net) Received: from gram (205-219-66-227.bayarea.net [205.219.66.227]) by baygate.bayarea.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA11891 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003d01bedb05$4d7e6100$e342dbcd@gram> Reply-To: "Jboy" From: "Jboy Gran" To: Subject: [freestyle] DLS Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:54:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Steve, JBoy speaks fine for himself. If it seems like I disrespect him then >i am very sorry. Thank you, I do speak for myself alright. You haven't disrespected me in any way. For the record, none of Steve's defenses were requested. >i had no intention of disrespecting JBoys construction of dexterity analysis. >in itself it is brilliant and should be checked out and even utilized by anyone >wanting to more accurately describe the difficulties of their dexterous moves. Thank you, that is what I have been waiting to hear. >the term 'The' will expand its horizons. >as an example, how i do a paradox whirl may affect the quality of my dexterity. >nd how about the plane of the circle- what if my dexterity is oblique and >not perpendicular to the bag's horizon? This is a very important mistake that I made in explaining the system. What I mean by legs crossing the bag topside or underside is very difficult to explain without showing. To Derric: yes, the dex line is parallel to the ground, and is attatched to the bag, and travels with it as it moves. I don't know why I didn't realize this before, but, if strictly following my previous definition, the "the" problem does exist. This example may clarify: in a right clipper set to mirage ending on a right toe the left leg crosses the dex line topside. in a right clipper set to paradox mirage ending on a left toe, the left leg crosses the line underneath, then the right leg crosses underneath, then topside, and then the left toe catches the bag. Obviously the set could be (and probably *has* to be) so high as to pass over the legs instead of across them. The idea still stands, though. The idea is that because in a paradox move the bag travels farther across your body, and then back again, we should give it more points. >Again, how does this work out? I'm thinking that both a mirage and a >butterfly involve a leg going over the bag, right? And an ATW also goes >over, right? A double ATW goes over twice and under once? Let me know >if I'm missing things here. all correct. >Same thing with blizzard and blur - blur would >get an extra point. More crap. These loopholes are larger than the ones >we have in the current add system. Crap, crap, trash.) That is a very good point. It seems that the reason some opposite-leg double-dex moves is more the order in which they are performed, rather than just the direction. can you think of a better, perhaps more general rule that would fix this? remember, the whole point of this is to fix these problems before they start. >A new, more accurate system would be nice, but I do not think DLS is it. I'm not necessarily saying that it is. But I definitely think it is a start. What I really wanted as a response to this proposal was input. finally it seems i am getting some. Also, I am not proposing this "DLS" as it stands. I want more ideas...discussion, on other topics than dexterities. Such as: what of the idea that cross body (clipper) delays should count the same as toe delays? How about counting half spins instead of full ones, that way moves like osis vs. in-spins wouldn't get the same amount for spins. other ideas? Jboy From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:42:53 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10838 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:42:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f136.hotmail.com [209.185.131.199]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA22818 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 22:36:57 -0700 Received: (qmail 86950 invoked by uid 0); 1 Aug 1999 05:36:27 -0000 Message-ID: <19990801053627.86949.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.251.32.85 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 22:36:27 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.251.32.85] From: "alex ibardaloza" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] everybody's favorite subject: ADDS Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 05:36:27 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org W'sup, I just wanted to know how to count ADDS :) for a gimpy move. Is it a tilt? Is a gimpy b-fly, mirage, etc... considered one move or two? Does any body do any gimpy fliers? Later, Zeke From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:43:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10843 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:43:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15800 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:11:37 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zKXLa06600 (4539) for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:10:14 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Tennessee To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was just at a youth conference in Knoxville, Tennessee. Anyone else that was there? Anyways one night I was in the courtyard by my dorm and I shredded for about an hour and a half. I did a lot of tricks I had never done, but the hardest I did was a butterfly. I impressed a lot of people. I was known as the hacky sack kid. It was awesome. It was really hot and I got dehydrated real bad. So, the moral of the story is, you can be awesome, but drink a lot of water. Owen Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:43:11 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10848 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:43:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18271 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:42:41 -0700 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (209-107-90-078.chicago.verio.net [209.107.90.78]) by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA04363; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:42:30 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990729213939.009899a0@mail.direcpc.com> References: <37A0CDA1.FC765A34@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:52:51 -0600 To: Matt Avery , Derric Scalf From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: Re: [freestyle] DLS - Dex Line System Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! >2) A paradon is as hard is a Blur. (already stated in the current system) How does the system handle paradon vs down double down vs barfly vs double over down? All technically the same move, but we all agree they are very different. Hmmm... you tell me. 'sup? >3) A torque is nearly as difficult as a *SPINNING* paradox mirage. (I have >been brought up to think that in order the be gyro, the first dex of the >move is IN>OUT and is made by the set leg. Hence, gyro drifter and gyro >torque (vortex and mobius). Otherwise, you are talking spinning) You've now thoroughly confused me. Gyro refers more to the spin than the direction of the dex, unless there is something new that I haven't heard about. See ya! Scott D. Enlightener From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 11:11:32 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11008 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:11:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.hctc.com (mail.hctc.com [208.25.168.2]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA00620 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 02:02:33 -0700 Received: from hctc.com (hccs29.hctc.com [208.25.168.29]) by mail.hctc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29420 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 01:58:46 -0700 Message-ID: <37A6A1D8.DF416645@hctc.com> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 02:01:28 -0600 From: Chris Stearns X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freestyle@footbag.org" Subject: [freestyle] A step up.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, this message is to all of the really new footbaggers (like my self) who read all of the mail and dont know what anything is that they are talking about(also like my self). I just wanted to say one thing that helped me with my footbag skills. To let you know about my weak skills, I just started hitting right and left clipper stalls consistently and I consider it a big step for me. One of the things that helped me was investing in a "real" footbag. This message obviously isnt to all of you pro's but to the kids like me who just kick for recreation. Just last week I invested in a "facile juice" footbag that I bought from the foot mart at the world footbag assosation website (http://worldfootbag.com/). This improved my game INCREDIBLY. I now have much more control with the footbag. The damn thing set me back about $30.00 (which i think is way to expensive:) but after a few days of playing with the new bag, the improvements became very noticable! Thats all i want to say. i hope this helps some of you people like me! Cheers Chris Stearns From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 11:42:23 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11035 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:42:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11032 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:42:23 -0700 Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01159 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 03:55:49 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.198] (dhcp-206-67-46-84 [206.67.46.84]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25484 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 03:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 03:58:21 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Dope Freestyle Photo Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm especially proud of this one: http://www.footbag.org/gallery/show/w99-210.jpg Now, does anyone have photos from finals? I unfortunately was in HELL at finals and so I didn't have a chance to take any pictures with my digicam. Digital photos are preferred since I don't have time to scan things. If you can e-mail me directly to let me know, I'd appreciate it. Any photos I put online will be copyrighted and credited however the author requests. Also, please remember everyone that footbag.org is *your* website, too. Just ask me and I will give you access to put any photos or videos there so people can find them easily. It is a free service of the World-Wide Footbag Foundation. Steve From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 11:52:56 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11062 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:52:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from edtnps05.telusplanet.net (edtnps05.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.105]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16166 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:25:31 -0700 Received: from gdprpx03-port-43.agt.net ([161.184.232.182]:2110 "HELO towerpowerii") by smtp2.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <702171-21161>; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:25:54 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990729192232.00808cd0@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: moukorfos@mail.geocities.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:22:32 -0600 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Mou Korfos Subject: [freestyle] Pactice stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Peoples. I am one of those Foot Bag Freaks that live in like total isolation. No one around here is any good at it (that I know) and here is not really around any where. There are no clubs within a 5 hour drive. So you are my life line. hehehe I do occasionaly get to play with people, however I am 'passing handicaped' is there anything I can do to master the pass? I can go till I hit the ground out of breath by my self. (please ignore any sexual inuendos) Also any one have tips for clipper stals? If any one wants tips from me.... Practice till your legs are num and you can't lift them any more. And never wear shoes! hehehe If you can do it with out them you can sure as hell do it with them. -Mou Korfos Moukorfos@geocities.com ICQ #2467105 | Welcome Transmition: | To "Normal is the average of all weirdness" | The End Transmition. |:> | Jungle. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 18:40:46 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11551 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:40:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05357 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 06:15:05 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA10567 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:15:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds shmads Message-Id: <000001243713016530938@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 08:15:38 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, Jul 30, 1999, 11:37:50 PM US CST Ryan Mulroney wrote: >order from best to worst (1 being best, etc.) so that the best competitor >will have the lowest score. This may be more proned to bias but it is >definitely a whole lot easier than counting everything and adding fifteen I've long been a champion of the simple ranking system. Bias, yes, but bias happens just as easily in the 'formula' system, too. The difference is that ranking happens on a more immediate level: the judge simply says "I thought this performance was better than that one" rather than being able to hide behind some system of counting and numbers. ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle The chicken fossil that thinks competitions should be decided on the loudness of squawks coming from the audience! From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 18:40:49 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11556 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:40:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05961 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 06:50:44 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA25317; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:50:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:50:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Chris Stearns cc: "freestyle@footbag.org" Subject: Re: [freestyle] A step up.... In-Reply-To: <37A6A1D8.DF416645@hctc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > that I bought from the foot mart at the world footbag assosation website > (http://worldfootbag.com/). This improved my game INCREDIBLY. I now > have much more control with the footbag. The damn thing set me back > about $30.00 (which i think is way to expensive:) but after a few days > of playing with the new bag, the improvements became very noticable! Wow. The bag couldn't be broken in very much in just a few days. The juice I had took weeks before it was any good to shred with. So if your bag has already improved your game noticably, then it should help a ton when it is fully borken in. What kind of footbag did you used to kick with? You should play with a carol or some other really good bag that is better than a juice. Later From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 19:21:39 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11633 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:21:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09901 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:27:16 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990803182714.RJXC8716.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:27:14 -0700 Message-ID: <37A73630.3E0D719D@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 13:34:24 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] DLS system References: <199907311622.MAA06064@rac10.wam.umd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Vince Bradley wrote: > > my interpretation of the difficulty assignements given to the first few moves > says it needs more careful scrutiny. ( why is one clipper harder than > the other? ) It is slightly harder (for me at least) to set a clipper from the same toe (opposite side of body) than it is to set from op toe. Left foot clipper is slightly easier when set from right toe than left toe. My question is : would a left foot clipper set from right foot clipper be worth one more than set from left toe which would be one more than set either from right toe or left clipper? > oh- also we shoudl probably come up with some system which takes into > account chicken maneuvers. Of course. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 19:24:42 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11643 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:24:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09979 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:30:35 -0700 Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu (root@rac1.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.141]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05269 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:30:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA17193 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17189 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908031830.OAA17189@rac1.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] JBoys system, The regul8r speaks Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Ryan, VInce again. great words. i agree. But, i also am not a fan of Job's notation, so i value the valiant attempts to reach agreements with new systems. JBoy- great response. I'll be looking forward to seeing more complete analysis of dexterity difficulties and further versions of the DLS system. I think a widening of 'the ' horizons is unavoidable- comes with the competitive arena of differing styles. one thing that is worth noting for me is some moves are easier in symposium. dada versus rip walk is a great example. basically a symposium allows for dexterities to be less dexterous. you CAN do a dada and make it huge, with quality dexterity, but you don't have to to do a decent one. I think Ryans words hit the notion well- we DO all know how and why some moves are harder than others, and that it is not currently quantified accurately ( or at all ) by the ADS system. BUT, we do understand each other, and we can teach newcomers to understand fairly easily. Ranking system at worlds? Just have Kenny point. He guessed the top eight this year without knowing results. So could probably many pros. I guess the problem is int he anticipated perception of our sport by outsiders. 'Their judging system is bogus.' but then again, most sports like ours haven't gotten anywhere by caring about stuff like that. question is did they get anywhere not caring... sorry for the babble. the procrastan8r moves on... From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 19:25:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11653 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:25:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10029 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:33:32 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990803183327.RLTH8716.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:33:27 -0700 Message-ID: <37A737A4.192F1A8E@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 13:40:36 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pactice stuff References: <3.0.6.32.19990729192232.00808cd0@mail.geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mou Korfos wrote: > Also any one have tips for clipper stals? But of course. Go to http://www.dallasfootbag.org/tutorials/the_clipper_delay.html Many of the links are dead... you don't need to tell me that. This is a work in progress, but the clipper stuff is done. > If any one wants tips from me.... Practice till your legs are num and you > can't lift them any more. And never wear shoes! The practice thing I can get with. About the shoes... you NEED shoes (unless you are Kenny) to kick. If you are trying to learn a move, the shoes help a lot. Don't get discouraged just because you are trying to learn things the hard way. As Chris said earlier, you need a good bag. The shoes and shorts help a lot too. It is easy to get discouraged and think that things are too hard if you are playing barefoot, in pants, or with a knit Sipa. Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 21:03:17 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA11754 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:03:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.hctc.com (mail.hctc.com [208.25.168.2]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12176 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:15:10 -0700 Received: from hctc.com (hccs132.hctc.com [208.25.168.132]) by mail.hctc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15650; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:11:21 -0700 Message-ID: <37A73F7B.84E56C0@hctc.com> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 13:14:04 -0600 From: Chris Stearns X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jeremiah J. Riely" , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] A step up.... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The bag that I was using was nit and it was really stiff and bouncy compared to the juice that I have now. Im pretty sure it was just a generic toy but i did master all of the basic stalls with it(toe,insider,outside, clippers stalls sometimes...) I knew that breaking in the bag was a big deal....after neading it around in my hands for a good 3 or 4 hours (over a period of time!) the bag was pretty comfortable to play with. As for getting a new bag......I already dropped 30 bucks on this one and its working out fine right now. If I got more serious about the sport I might invest a litttle more money in a better footbag. See Ya Chris Stearns From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 03:44:47 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA12004 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 03:44:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from m6.jersey.juno.com (m6.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13102 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:15:39 -0700 Received: (from jmlane2@juno.com) by m6.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EG5JXY5V; Tue, 03 Aug 1999 17:14:34 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:04:38 -0700 Subject: [freestyle] good, or bad footbags Message-ID: <19990803.150442.-3517973.0.jmlane2@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,3,14-16 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Jason M Lane Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, I am a beginning footbagger, so right off I am going to apologize for how elementary my questions are going to sound. And I am new to the list so I don't know exactly what I am doing. I've been using a sued footbag w/ dirt filling for a while and got pretty used to it, but read on the net that the the synthetic sued juice footbags were one of the best for beginners, so I bought it. When it arrived I broke it in as they say on Hackmans web page (washing it and kicking it), and I also rolled it vigorously in my hands as they said in the WFA players manual. After it was more broken in I began kicking it and its filling started to leak. So I was looking for suggestions on a reasonably priced but good footbag that is good for skoolin' and stallin' (that was another problem with my juice, I couldn't stall it well), I was thinking about either the Legend or the Alpha footbag by flying clipper. I'd love to get some input. Jason Lane From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 03:44:42 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA11999 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 03:44:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f110.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.110]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA32160 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:36:43 -0700 Received: (qmail 38530 invoked by uid 0); 30 Jul 1999 19:36:04 -0000 Message-ID: <19990730193604.38529.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 151.201.61.7 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:36:04 PDT X-Originating-IP: [151.201.61.7] From: "Tim Cooley" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] hitting tricks Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:36:04 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey, i am a relatively average kicker and i was wondering on what i should do during my practice regimesin order to start hitting tricks like the DRIFTER and the DOUBLE-DOWN OVER. i am trying my luck with the blur at the present moment and the timing is throwing me off. is there something "extra" that i should be doing to get a feel for these so that i can hit them in a circle? thanx. Tim From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 03:45:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA12039 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 03:45:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f224.hotmail.com [207.82.251.115]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA13113 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:15:54 -0700 Received: (qmail 55652 invoked by uid 0); 3 Aug 1999 21:15:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19990803211520.55651.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.161.81 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 03 Aug 1999 14:15:19 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.161.81] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds shmads Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 14:15:19 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Regulator wrote: >For the most part, the only use of the add system is to judge >difficulty >on paper in competition. In shred circles, adds are >totally irrelevent >because all shredders know when something is hard >or not regardless of the >adds assigned. I would like to "add" one more criticism to this list. The fact that the ADD system or DLS for that matter, does not take into account moves done in combination. Paradox dragon-fly is a 3, torque is a 4 (replace with DLS #s if you wish). Neither are amazingly difficult by themselves. But put them one after the other, and you've got something even the top players in the world would have a hard time hitting. The sport of diving can assign difficulty to dives because divers can only do one dive at a time. Footbag isn't diving. Moves ARE done in combination, almost always. So even if DLS, which I like better than ADDS, is developed, it won't be a panacea. >So rather than try to quantify every single category that goes >into a final score in a freestyle routine why don't we just do what >many >smaller tournaments do and use the ranking system. For those of >you who >dont know, this system involves a panel of judges ranking >the competitors >in order from best to worst (1 being best, etc.) so >that the best >competitor will have the lowest score. Amen. My motto: "Keep it simple, stupid." >This may be more proned to bias but it is definitely a whole lot >easier >than counting everything and adding fifteen minute numbers >together to >form an error-laidened number close to 27 that will only >separate >competitors by such a small amount that the winner can be >decided by a fraction of a point that could be the result of an >accidental >tick mark by any number of judges. Anyone who has ever >judged knows that >it is nearly impossible to count everything >totally accurately. With the >ranking system, the best routine is >recognized and selected...assuming we >can round up quality judges, >and we were able to this year for finals. Imagine this, ESPN calls and wants to air Worlds live. Our response: "Sorry, our judging system takes at least 15 minutes to get results. No can do." Another hypothetical situation. Worlds 2004, grand prize: $50,000. Josh Penney wins. But after looking at the video tape, it is found that a judge counted one too many unusals, the add count got screwed up, etc., etc. What happens to the holes in our judging system when REAL money is on the line? Maybe a couple of lawsuits? Even though the "big time" may be a ways down the road, we should be ready for it. >Ok, now it is time for people to yell at me...it happens every time >I type >into this list......Ryan The Regulator >Mulroney I AM YELLING AT YOU! YOU STINK! BAD! Thanks. DanK _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 03:54:42 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA12244 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 03:54:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12241 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 03:54:41 -0700 Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18005 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:08:05 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.198] (dhcp-206-67-46-219 [206.67.46.219]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25806 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990803211520.55651.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <19990803211520.55651.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:10:29 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds shmads Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:15 PM -0700 8/3/99, Daniel Kramer wrote: >>So rather than try to quantify every single category that goes >>into a final score in a freestyle routine why don't we just do >>what >many smaller tournaments do and use the ranking system. For >>those of >you who dont know, this system involves a panel of judges >>ranking >the competitors in order from best to worst (1 being best, >>etc.) so >that the best competitor will have the lowest score. > >Amen. My motto: "Keep it simple, stupid." Okay, just so everyone's clear, this is a change of subject. Now we're on the judging system and not the way we assess relative difficulty of moves. Let me go on record with my opinions so nobody is confused as to where my long-winded e-mails are heading: (1) I think the current judging system is WAY too complicated and sucks. Period. For about twenty reasons, the least of which is the add system. (2) I *much* prefer a simple ranking system for about 10,000,000 reasons. (The least of which is the same reason I didn't get to kick at Worlds at all. I know nobody feels sorry for me, but damn it was frustrating to have to do all that stupid organization, 95% of which was directly correlated to the complexity of the judging system.) (3) Regardless of the judging system, we still need (I repeat, *need*) a way to assess difficulty that makes sense. The current system is failing us more and more. DLS is not the perfect system; it's just the start of a more productive dialog than we've had before about ways in which we could codify our concepts of difficulty. Ryan says everyone just "knows" what's harder -- well, that's true, but *why* do we know it? That's all a system like DLS is trying to do -- explain what it *is* that makes one trick harder than the other. That's it for now. I don't expect any rebuttal 'cause I'm not arguing a point. Just clarifying my opinions in case anyone cares. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 06:25:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA12389 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:25:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Cam Meyer Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19972 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:30:23 -0700 Received: from CMDrummer2@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zJDCa00254 (4546) for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:29:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:29:29 EDT Subject: [freestyle] basics, heh :) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, my name is Cam Meyer, and i have been uhh shreddin (geez, new word, i am really a newbie at this) the past 5 days or so and am starting to really get into this sport. I started a year or 2 ago, but i really didn't try that hard, just kicking around with a few friends, we sucked our record was like 4 kicks in a row, so i haven't played since, anyway, i need help and i am not sure if this is the right group or if i should post this message in the footbag group instead of freestyle. well enuff with my life story, here goes: i have looked on various websites and have yet to find any tips on practicing, i have found a stretching routine though that helps, i have my inside kicks down pretty well, i think, and my record is around 18 kicks, alternating feet (see i need help, i usually get 8) next i have been trying to work on toe kicks, but it took lots of experimenting to get it down(my left leg especially it isn't as coordinated,), i still can only get a good kick off, or what i think looks fairly good, 1 out of every 3 or 4 times, well i guess i will just have to practice a lot on them until they are good, but, i don't know if i am even doing them right, i have yet to find on any website explanations on how to do these basic moves, i have pretty much taught myself, next i would like to try outside kicks, and the ones behind me. does anyway here have any advice about the order to learn the basics, or any tips on doing them, i read somewhere about crunching your toes in when u do an inside kick to make your foot flatter but i don't know if it works, ya know, tips like that, i could really use the help and would be very gratefull, advice from the pros would help me a LOT, i learn pretty quickly, well i won't waste any more of your time, thanx Cameron Meyer From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 15:09:29 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12687 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:09:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from m6.jersey.juno.com (m6.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20964 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:12:29 -0700 Received: (from jmlane2@juno.com) by m6.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EG6L5XU3; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 03:12:01 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:12:18 -0700 Subject: [freestyle] keeping my foot flat Message-ID: <19990803.131224.-79721.1.jmlane2@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,7-9 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Jason M Lane Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, Once I do get a good bag, any suggestions on how to keep my foot flat for the clipper stall? I' ve looked on a bunch of web pages and have the motion good (I've even stalled it a few times with my dirt filled bag), but I can't seem to keep my foot flat enough to keep the bag on my foot. It could be the shoe because i can't afford the Rod Lavers right now, and wear Vans. And I hope to learn the clipper because I heard its "the root of all moves", or something like that. later, Jason From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 15:09:22 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12682 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:09:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20814 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:00:05 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990804070004.ZNKQ8716.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:00:04 -0700 Message-ID: <37A7E6A7.6D18567B@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 02:07:19 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jason M Lane CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] good, or bad footbags References: <19990803.150442.-3517973.0.jmlane2@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jason M Lane wrote: > After it was more broken in I began kicking it > and its filling started to leak. So I was looking for suggestions on a > reasonably priced but good footbag that is good for skoolin' and stallin' > (that was another problem with my juice, I couldn't stall it well), I was > thinking about either the Legend or the Alpha footbag by flying clipper. > I'd love to get some input. If you get a synthe-suede bag, you will have problems breaking it in. Period. You NEED a *facile* bag. Yes, facile is a type of synthesuede, but it is a very thin kind. Facile bags require extra care (you never want to do toe pickups where you scrape them on concrete) but they are well worth the extra time and money. As I have said many times, if you are looking for a bag to kick, get facile. If you are looking for a bag that will last forever, get a rock... they never wear out. Good bags last about a year and then you have to replace them. Carol bags are my favorite. If you can find a Hu-Mungus or a Richard Abshire bag you won't be dissapointed. A FACILE juice, stork, or kanga will give you good amounts of kick time. The main thing here is FACILE. Another thing to keep in mind is this: The more panels a bag has the rounder it is. Also, the more panels a bag has, the more stitching is involved. Stitching makes a bag hard... fabric breaks in, thread doesn't. So, you need to find a happy medium. A legend is, what?, 42 panels. They look good, but they don't break in very well. Get a juice, stork or kanga and you will be much happier. Those dirt filled bags (dirtbag, sandbag and "dirty" juices) are great for practicing stalls. Grab one of those while you are ordering your other - they are pretty cheap and give you good practice. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 15:09:55 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12702 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:09:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28221 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 05:46:29 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA14759; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:46:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:46:22 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Jason M Lane cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] good, or bad footbags In-Reply-To: <19990803.150442.-3517973.0.jmlane2@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > (that was another problem with my juice, I couldn't stall it well), I was > thinking about either the Legend or the Alpha footbag by flying clipper. > I'd love to get some input. Get a facile juice. Facile bags are way better than suede bags, just be careful with it. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 15:10:46 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12714 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:10:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com ([209.185.241.49]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA28556 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:33:42 -0700 Received: (qmail 38121 invoked by uid 0); 4 Aug 1999 13:33:15 -0000 Message-ID: <19990804133315.38120.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 06:33:14 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.62] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:33:14 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org World's staff and others, I was curious as to when a DETAILED categorical breakdown of the results of freestyle would be posted. Actually, I guess the better question would be, is a detailed categorical breakdown of the results(scores) going to be posted anywhere. Thanx, Ian D. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 15:24:13 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12752 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:24:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12749 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:24:12 -0700 Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29351 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:37:34 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.219] (dhcp-206-67-46-219 [206.67.46.219]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18044 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990804133315.38120.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <19990804133315.38120.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:40:16 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 8:33 AM -0500 8/4/99, Ian Dubman wrote: >World's staff and others, Don't you just mean, "Steve"? > I was curious as to when a DETAILED categorical breakdown of >the results of freestyle would be posted. Actually, I guess the >better question would be, is a detailed categorical breakdown of the >results(scores) going to be posted anywhere. You just can't imagine how burnt out I am. Never fear. I will upload the detailed data and e-mail the freestyle list as soon as it's up. I almost always do. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 17:08:11 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13130 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:08:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31050 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:54:53 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zQLNa03711 (4543) for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:54:05 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Pennsylvania Shred To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If I organized a shred, not a contest, in the Pittsburgh area how many people would be interested in attending? Owen "Just Joined the WFA" Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 18:53:11 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13278 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:53:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f11.hotmail.com [216.32.181.11]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA00499 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:44:03 -0700 Received: (qmail 83041 invoked by uid 0); 4 Aug 1999 17:43:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19990804174329.83040.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.167.114.190 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 10:43:29 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.167.114.190] From: "Ryan Britt" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Hackman's Page?? Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 10:43:29 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi there. I was just wondering if anyone knows what happened to Hackman's Page. I first discovered it about 3 months ago and it hasn't been updated since. Did the webmaster just stop updating? By the way if there are any beginners out there who haven't been to Hackman's Page I definately recommend checking it out. It provides a great introduction to the sport of freestyle and illustrates the fundamental moves. The URL is: http://www.eatel.net/~ratcliff/mainmenu.htm - Ryan Britt From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 18:53:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13273 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:53:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00347 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:37:09 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zVLUa28698 (3961) for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:36:25 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Tevas vs. Lavers To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm writing this hoping someone else has experienced this. I learned to shred in Tevas. I love them a lot. But I've never tried Lavers. Is it really worth whatever the amount of money is to buy Lavers. Or should I just stick with Tevas? Owen " " Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 18:53:07 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13268 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:53:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com ([209.185.241.230]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA00424 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:41:25 -0700 Received: (qmail 97294 invoked by uid 0); 4 Aug 1999 17:40:50 -0000 Message-ID: <19990804174050.97293.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 10:40:50 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.62] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 12:40:50 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I wrote: >>World's staff and others, > >Don't you just mean, "Steve"? Steve, your modesty is impressive...hehe. Seriously, I was going to just specificly ask you, butI thought MAYBE someone else could have done this to ease your work load...guess not. >You just can't imagine how burnt out I am. Probably not, so don't stress about it. We will see the results when you have the time and the will to do it. You could always make Cory Current do it; I hear he is getting lazy these days. >Never fear. I will upload the detailed data and e-mail the freestyle >list as soon as it's up. I almost always do. :-) Thank you. Everyone should give Steve a hand for his footbag promotional work and for putting up with all our shit--lord knows we get enuff of his...hehe. Later, Ian D. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 18:53:28 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13298 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:53:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (root@diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32218 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:08:44 -0700 Received: from default (madmax-103.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.103]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA27743 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990804100654.007d8100@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 10:06:54 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Tu Vu Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? In-Reply-To: <19990804133315.38120.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 08:33 AM 8/4/99 CDT, Ian Dubman wrote: >World's staff and others, > I was curious as to when a DETAILED categorical breakdown of the >results of freestyle would be posted. Actually, I guess the better question >would be, is a detailed categorical breakdown of the results(scores) going >to be posted anywhere. forget this year! i'm still waiting for worlds 1998's detailed results which was quoted "to be up and running in a day or so" after the top finisher results were published last year in august. oh well, i'll guess i'll count it all myself. 2 huge From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 18:59:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13318 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:59:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13315 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:59:00 -0700 Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01264 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:12:21 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.219] (dhcp-206-67-46-219 [206.67.46.219]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26857 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990804100654.007d8100@sfsu.edu> References: <3.0.1.32.19990804100654.007d8100@sfsu.edu> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:14:40 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:06 AM -0700 8/4/99, Tu Vu wrote: >i'm still waiting for worlds 1998's detailed results As I said, "almost always". >which was quoted >"to be up and running in a day or so" after the top finisher results were >published last year in august. For a definition of "thankless job", see "Worlds", "website", "results", "money", and "organization". Cross-reference "burn-out" and "taken for granted". :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 19:27:03 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13436 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:27:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01743 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:34:38 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA08812 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:34:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? Message-Id: <000001252003016636531@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:35:31 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, Aug 4, 1999, 12:40:50 PM US CST Ian Dubman wrote: >Thank you. Everyone should give Steve a hand for his footbag promotional >work and for putting up with all our shit--lord knows we get enuff of Giving him a hand would be nice, but few things would say "We love you Steve" like a case of Guiness. ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle The chicken fossil that wants to say, "bk bk bk bkAWK!" to Steve. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 19:41:32 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13496 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:41:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from majordomo2.umd.edu (majordomo2.umd.edu [128.8.10.7]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02184 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:52:57 -0700 Received: from rac8.wam.umd.edu (root@rac8.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.148]) by majordomo2.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25173 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:52:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac8.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac8.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA17167 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:52:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac8.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17161 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:52:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:52:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908041852.OAA17161@rac8.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] World's Judging year 2000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org what can be done to change the judging system to be used next year in Vancouver? I see no reason why it must remain the system we have been using. I definitely want to hear arguments. Whatever system we decide to use, it should be tested by sanctioned regional tournaments in the upcoming year. no one get your hopes up, i am making a wave, but there might be a wall in the way. Dan, how would you run freestyel in the year 2000? l8r vince From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 19:41:53 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13506 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:41:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from homer.tomahawktech.com ([206.191.48.232]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02085 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:46:17 -0700 Received: from pc0966.software.mitel.com (Administrators@localhost) by homer.tomahawktech.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA00291 for ; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 14:47:54 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Message-ID: <00c801bedea9$a2e97240$c136c786@software.mitel.com> From: "Dave Reid" To: References: <19990804174329.83040.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Hackman's Page?? Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:46:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ----- Original Message ----- > beginners out there who haven't been to Hackman's Page I definately > recommend checking it out. It provides a great introduction to the sport of > freestyle and illustrates the fundamental moves. > The URL is: > http://www.eatel.net/~ratcliff/mainmenu.htm > > - Ryan Britt It hasn't been updated in at least 2 years. I first noticed it around then. That webmaster is even lazier than Steve! :P That hackman site is a great place for people who are starting out. I remember how confused I was about TOE > JUMP [BOD] > OP OUT [DEX] > OP CLIP [XBD] at the start, and the little stickmen really help :) Dave From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 20:09:04 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA13570 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 20:09:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web214.mail.yahoo.com (web214.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.114]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA02418 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:07:16 -0700 Message-ID: <19990804190105.14531.rocketmail@web214.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [165.121.33.40] by web214.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 12:01:05 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:01:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zerbe Subject: [freestyle] Freestyle in Portland To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey what's up Shred Heads? I was just wondering if any freestylers are going to show up at the U.S. Open in Portland. I live in Seattle and want to know what the scene is going to be like if I drive down there for the weekind. So if you're planing on freestyling in P-town (Forest??) Let me know. And if anyone needs a ride from Seattle, no problem. C'mon folks I need a good excuse to get out of town. ZERBE From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 21:44:19 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13644 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:44:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (root@diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04145 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:20:38 -0700 Received: from default (madmax-24.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.24]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA11642 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990804132038.007e1100@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:20:38 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Tu Vu Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990804100654.007d8100@sfsu.edu> <3.0.1.32.19990804100654.007d8100@sfsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:14 AM 8/4/99 -0700, Steve Goldberg wrote: >For a definition of "thankless job", see "Worlds", "website", >"results", "money", and "organization". Cross-reference "burn-out" >and "taken for granted". :-) ok steve I think you deserve a round of applause. You have done so much over the years, i was just busting your chops :-) I would like to personally thank STEVE for his hard earned efforts and "money" into making a kick ass website. But one thing i think i would like to see.... www.footbag.org t-shirts that would be good promotion. 2 huge From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 21:48:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13664 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:48:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f135.hotmail.com [207.82.251.14]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA04863 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:58:57 -0700 Received: (qmail 27682 invoked by uid 0); 4 Aug 1999 20:58:22 -0000 Message-ID: <19990804205822.27681.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.161.81 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:58:22 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.161.81] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] World's Judging year 2000 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:58:22 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Dan, how would you run freestyle in the year 2000? I would just run. DK From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 21:50:34 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13676 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:50:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13673 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:50:34 -0700 Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05015 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:03:55 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.219] (dhcp-206-67-46-219 [206.67.46.219]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19582 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199908041852.OAA17161@rac8.wam.umd.edu> References: <199908041852.OAA17161@rac8.wam.umd.edu> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:06:08 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] World's Judging year 2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:52 PM -0400 8/4/99, Vince Bradley wrote: >what can be done to change the judging system to be used next year >in Vancouver? Actually, not too much, at least not according to IFC (formerly IFAB). The rules and procedures for Worlds updated on an annual basis, where January 1, 2000 is the beginning of the next year. The rule changes (which I'll try to summarize in a message to the announcements list soon -- yet another thing I don't know why I'm doing) that go into effect in January are the ones we voted on last month in Chicago. There were no proposals made about adding or modifying the fundamentals of the judging system itself. >I see no reason why it must remain the system we have been using. Because players develop routines and practice with the expectation that they will be judged according to the established rules set forth by IFC. We can change it, but we need to do it by the book or else we risk all sorts of problems. Steve From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 23:34:39 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA13781 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 23:34:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com ([209.185.241.199]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA06115 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:05:01 -0700 Received: (qmail 14661 invoked by uid 0); 4 Aug 1999 22:04:30 -0000 Message-ID: <19990804220430.14660.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 15:04:30 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.62] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 17:04:30 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Tu "Huge" Vu But one thing i think i would like to see.... > >www.footbag.org t-shirts > Dude, killer idea. That would nice--what do ya say Steve? Hell, what does everyone say? As Steve says, it is OUR site--he just does all the work. That would seriously be a dope promo. HUGE idea, Tu!! Late, Ian D. MUFF'IAN --- gets baked daily, mmm mmm good... From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 01:53:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA13998 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 01:53:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.hctc.com (mail.hctc.com [208.25.168.2]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08366 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:54:26 -0700 Received: from hctc.com (hccs61.hctc.com [208.25.168.61]) by mail.hctc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12901; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:50:28 -0700 Message-ID: <37A8C469.29BFC2CC@hctc.com> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 16:53:29 -0600 From: Chris Stearns X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jason M Lane , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] keeping my foot flat References: <19990803.131224.-79721.1.jmlane2@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The main thing I really concentrated on while I was getting consistent with clippers is really bending your support knee. Do you have your inside stalls down? Make sure you are totally consistent with those also. I hope this helps you a little.:) Chris Stearns From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 01:53:32 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA13993 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 01:53:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web901.mail.yahoo.com (web901.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.76]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA07787 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:28:10 -0700 Message-ID: <19990804232503.23877.rocketmail@web901.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.191.169.19] by web901.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 16:25:03 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:25:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Reply-To: iguana04@SPRYNET.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Tu "Huge" Vu But one thing i think i would like to see.... > >www.footbag.org t-shirts Cool Tu... walking billboards for www.footbag.org www.footbag.org is pretty much what we holler out to anyone walking by checking us out already. A t-shirt is an awesome idea. And hey Steve...if you charge enough (because *you* WILL be the one designing, creating and distributing these, ya know) maybe you can make some money back on this website afterall. A BIG thanks to Steve Goldberg for www.footbag.org t-shirts. D'oh! that's how rumors get started ;-) Hey Tu, maybe you can design one to save Steve some time. Or maybe we could have a contest for coolest design and the winner gets a free shirt or footbag or something. Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 01:53:38 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA14003 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 01:53:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from chupacabras.flash.net (chupacabras.flash.net [209.30.6.16]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08759 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:22:53 -0700 Received: from flash.net (ip195.dallas13.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.164.195]) by chupacabras.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03319; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:22:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37A8DAC8.D3E5EA7B@flash.net> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 19:28:56 -0500 From: Dan Eaton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org, dan.eaton@usa.alcatel.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds shmads References: <000001243713016530938@mlerf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: > On Fri, Jul 30, 1999, 11:37:50 PM US CST Ryan Mulroney wrote: > > >order from best to worst (1 being best, etc.) so that the best competitor > >will have the lowest score. This may be more proned to bias but it is > >definitely a whole lot easier than counting everything and adding fifteen > > I've long been a champion of the simple ranking system. Bias, yes, but bias > happens just as easily in the 'formula' system, too. The difference is that > ranking happens on a more immediate level: the judge simply says "I thought > this performance was better than that one" rather than being able to hide > behind some system of counting and numbers. > > ______________________________________ > Derrick Fogle > The chicken fossil that thinks competitions should be decided on the loudness > of squawks coming from the audience! Besides, a bias error inadvertently designed into a 'formula' system will always be applied until the bias is corrected. Unless a perfect 'formula' system is devised (unlikely) such biases will be a fact of life. On the other hand, the bias associated with a perception-based judging system should be more of a more random nature ("white noise-ish"). It would then stand to reason that using a panel of judges and "averaging" the results (perceptions) should effectively cancel the bias and give a fairly objective result in most cases. As long as there was a panel of at least qualified five judges (none of which routinely kick together just attempt to increase the likelihood of different judging perspectives and minimize bias associated with personal acquaintance with competitors), I think the results could be trusted to yield the best performance. Anyway, what do I know about it. Just an observation. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 06:10:52 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA14429 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 06:10:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from edtnps04.telusplanet.net (edtnps04.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.104]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12524 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:12:45 -0700 Received: from gdprpx04-port-33.agt.net ([161.184.232.241]:1356 "HELO towerpowerii") by smtp1.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <44322-25106>; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 23:12:16 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990804230944.00811430@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: moukorfos@mail.geocities.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 23:09:44 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Mou Korfos Subject: [freestyle] New adds system Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi just a few thoughts from Mou. >Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: [snip] >It would then stand to reason that using a >panel of judges and "averaging" the results (perceptions) should effectively >cancel the bias and give a fairly objective result in most cases. As long as >there was a panel of at least qualified five[run on sentance] judges (none of which routinely >kick together just attempt to increase the likelihood of different judging >perspectives [still going] and minimize bias associated with personal acquaintance with >competitors), I think the results could be trusted to [are we there yet?] yield the best >performance. [snip] This is what I've ben wondering. Why hasn't any one else said this? If footbag is to grow as a sport into the internation arena of sports this is wear you have to go. Panel judging. Certified Judges that no longer compete, they get paided to watch. The sport is not ready yet, the money is not there. Give it a decade and with hard work from people like Steve it will get there. The rest of you could drop the bag one anda while and chip in too. If you want a new add system do it right. [snip] Actually, not too much, at least not according to IFC (formerly IFAB). The rules and procedures for Worlds updated on an annual basis, where January 1, 2000 is the beginning of the next year. The rule changes (which I'll try to summarize in a message to the announcements list soon -- yet another thing I don't know why I'm doing) that go into effect in January are the ones we voted on last month in Chicago. There were no proposals made about adding or modifying the fundamentals of the judging system itself. [snip] At the next annual general meeting show up and make a motion to have the add system put under consideration[better yet have it put on the agenda]. If you are really ambitious you could even make a proposal, detailing a new system that you have being working on for the last year. These things take time. There is a lot of stuff involved, and the politics are very heavy. Believe it or not this is a thing of international consideration, and if you ever want to see this sport make it to the Olympics or become well known these are the things you have to do. Don't ask me why. And please stop bickering over what moves are harder... geesh it's like having a bunch of three year olds running around! Try actaully putting some thought into a new system that is fairly simple and incorperates new strengths and the old strengths of the current add system. You could all start by arguing over what the weakness of the old system are. Hate to be the party pooper, but I thought you needed a little direction, after reading endless emails about nothing *laughs* -Mou P.S. That T-shirt idea sounds good, I was thinking something simple for it. Slap that www.footbag.org graphic (fww-block-logo.gif) on the breast and then across the shoulders and say something witty like "Kick a bag and you'll never kick another sac -Reformed feminist" or "Kick till you die" make a shit load of them and waabom, T-shirts glalore, probably look good, cheap to design/make. Unless some one wants to make a rock'n graphic for the back of the shirt, But I'd shell out bucks for my suggestion[just some lettering] just as quick (baised?) Moukorfos@geocities.com ICQ #2467105 | Welcome Transmition: | To "Normal is the average of all weirdness" | The End Transmition. |:> | Jungle. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 06:10:55 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA14434 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 06:10:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Josh Childs Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12558; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:13:41 -0700 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zXJSa13741 (3863); Thu, 5 Aug 1999 01:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2cee1111.24da775a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 01:12:58 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? To: brat@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 8/4/99 2:13:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brat@footbag.org writes: << For a definition of "thankless job", see "Worlds", "website", "results", "money", and "organization". Cross-reference "burn-out" and "taken for granted". :-) >> you should take on a lacky there steve, some one that you can make do all the work for ya . . . you'll realize how fun it is to be on the giving end . . . any who . . . i was just looking for some advice on paradox double leg overs, i hit them here and there but i was kinda hoping ot learn a neat-o trick for them. maybe like a secret hop or so . . . any help you be helpfull, funny how that works. . . Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 17:11:34 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15052 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:11:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f99.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.99]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA21049 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 06:46:32 -0700 Received: (qmail 27203 invoked by uid 0); 5 Aug 1999 13:46:01 -0000 Message-ID: <19990805134601.27202.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 06:46:01 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.62] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New adds system Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 08:46:01 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Mou Korfos Give it a decade and with hard work from people like Steve >it >will get there. The rest of you could drop the bag one anda while >and chip >in too. Hey. You are on this list also. What is stopping you?? Ian D. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 17:12:50 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15062 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:12:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Cam Meyer Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21329 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 07:30:36 -0700 Received: from CMDrummer2@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zTJWa13741 (4265) for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <91c2aac.24daf9de@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:29:50 EDT Subject: [freestyle] anyone live near kansas city mo? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey, my name is Cam Meyer, and i don't know anyone in my area who hacks. I am a begginer and of course need help, and if any of u live near Kansas City Missouri, hey let's hook up and maybe u could skool me. hope to get some responses thanx Cam Meyer From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 17:13:11 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15072 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:13:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21351 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 07:32:03 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA05948 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:32:02 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? Message-Id: <000000061943016708377@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 09:32:57 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, Aug 4, 1999, 5:04:30 PM US CST Ian Dubman wrote: >Dude, killer idea. That would nice--what do ya say Steve? Hell, what does >everyone say? As Steve says, it is OUR site--he just does all the work. And Ian and I have the connections - we can get shirts done on the cheap. The owner of a screen printing company owes me a 'life debt' for writing a database for him. There's a good chance I can even have a small run of shirts done on a purely prospective basis - we wouldn't have to pay for them until we sell them. I can have my buddy do some artwork and whatnot - or you all could submit artwork! From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 18:58:31 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA15245 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 18:58:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f7.hotmail.com [216.32.181.7]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA24590 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:35:42 -0700 Received: (qmail 61280 invoked by uid 0); 5 Aug 1999 17:35:12 -0000 Message-ID: <19990805173512.61279.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.167.114.185 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 10:35:12 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.167.114.185] From: "Ryan Britt" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Sultans of Shred? Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 10:35:12 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everbody. I just had a quick question. Can anyone tell me how I can get a copy of "Sultans of Shred"? The only company I know that carries footbag videos is the WFA, and they don't have it. - Ryan Britt From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 20:00:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA15308 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:00:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Message-ID: <19990805182509.14567.rocketmail@web216.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.108.197.65] by web216.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 11:25:09 PDT Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:25:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Cory Current Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Howdy all, Steve wrote: > >You just can't imagine how burnt out I am. yeah, when I'm feelin' all burnt out, I usually lay off the beer, women, and drugs for a while. It tends to help. Dubman wrote: > You could > always make Cory Current do > it; I hear he is getting lazy these days. Watch it, Dubman!!! I'll be forced to come back down there and open up the can'O'Whoop-Ass!!! Actually, I didn't see any of that spanking that Fogle was talking about, either. And I even sent in a piece of hate-mail. Man, I was robbed!! Fogle wrote: > Giving him a hand would be nice, but few things > would say "We love you Steve" > like a case of Guiness. mmmmmm....Guiness the quickest way to a man's heart! mmmmmm....Guiness....argrgargargargrgrga.... Jane Jones wrote: > www.footbag.org is pretty much what we holler out to > anyone walking by checking us out already I thought it was www.hotsex.com that you yell. Oh, wait...that's Steve's *other* website. My bad. Jane kept on writin', > A BIG thanks to Steve Goldberg for www.footbag.org > t-shirts. D'oh! that's how rumors get started ;-) he likes it when you call him, "Sugar Daddy". I think it's his codename on the *other* site. Mou wrote: > Unless some one wants > to make a rock'n graphic > for the back of the shirt yeah, but then you have this big battle over whether it's a freestyle graphic or net graphic. (Oh, Boy, I just opened myself up for a slew of hatemail, especially since this IS the 'style list) Better yet, let's just put a big graphic of Steve on it. they'd sell like hotcakes. (I got this great footage of Steve bustin' out some NWA, then doin' some nice break-dancin' moves. I'll bet we could get a great still from it.) Hmmmm, maybe I could get Derric Scalf to put a short video of that on the Dallas page?? Imagine the fun! I'm laughin' pretty hard just thinkin' about it. Sorry if I offended anyone. later. === Cory Current------------------------------------------------ Kickers Quarterly Journalist http://www.schwafootbag.com ------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 21:45:57 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15417 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:45:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27811 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:18:59 -0700 Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (root@rac9.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.149]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04763 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:18:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA28243 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:18:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28229 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908052018.QAA28229@rac9.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] tshirts for the web site Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey all just wanted to say east coast championships t-shirts this year had www.footbag.org in huge letters across the bottom of the sponsors graphic ( the one with Steve Goldberg spiking ). my suggestion is for all tournament directors to do the same. the last thing steve needs is more work, and the next to last thing is probably more ideas. Steve- it sounds like you have a ton of volunteers to help out. make us work if you can find the time to figure out how, cool? (: l8r vince From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 21:45:59 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15422 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:45:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from edtnps05.telusplanet.net (edtnps05.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.105]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28046 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:21:15 -0700 Received: from gdprpx03-port-23.agt.net ([161.184.232.162]:1403 "HELO towerpowerii") by smtp2.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <21067-28032>; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:21:56 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990805141811.008128b0@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: moukorfos@mail.geocities.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 14:18:11 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Mou Korfos Subject: Re: [freestyle] New adds system In-Reply-To: <19990805134601.27202.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Hey. You are on this list also. What is stopping you?? >Ian D. Try taking a dual major in an engineering program, living in geogrphical isolation and being utterly broke. You got my two bits! hehehe Hypocritical or not! -Mou Moukorfos@geocities.com ICQ #2467105 | Welcome Transmition: | To "Normal is the average of all weirdness" | The End Transmition. |:> | Jungle. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 21:46:17 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15437 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:46:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28472 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:38:15 -0700 Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (root@rac9.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.149]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24140 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:38:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA00940 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00935 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908052038.QAA00935@rac9.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] worlds judging system Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey i'll try again. if the worlds judging system could be changed to be run different next year, what would you change? the idea that it cannot be changed seems entirely bogus. why not? because it hasnt been done? because the freestylers have to know about it? it seems all the freestylers stay very informed to me. i'll try again on a second aspect- DanK- if you could have freestyle be judged any way you like without actually having to do any work to make it happen, how would you orchestrate the judging system? guess i could pull it out of the archives... hoping to hear tons of words- l8r vince From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 21:46:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15447 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:46:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28357 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:29:49 -0700 Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (root@rac9.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.149]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05144; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:29:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA29312; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29302; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908052029.QAA29302@rac9.wam.umd.edu> To: SuperOwen@aol.com, djsoyboy@excite.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Pittsburgh Shred ( hey owen! ) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i'd be into shredding in Pittsburgh, and I'm pretty sure i can guarantee attendance of SoyBoy Neil Payne, and other DC area freestylers. Let me know if you need any help organizing, or planning such an event, and try to let me know at least two weeks in advance otherwise. Thanks- Vince Bradley From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 21:48:58 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15462 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:48:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29327 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:54:53 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zQZBa13743 (4012) for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:54:03 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Stomping To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org When you add a stomp to a trick, such as, stomping guay or stomping ATW does that add an add? One more question, toe> same in> same inside is a guay. What's toe> same out>same outside? Owen Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 22:27:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15593 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 22:27:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (mail.callplus.co.nz [202.27.103.146]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29695 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:07:16 -0700 Received: by INETSRV with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:06:03 +1200 Message-ID: <8186832B88B9D211959E002035F378232C6789@INETSRV> From: Adrian Dick To: "'Owen Parrish'" , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Stomping Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:06:01 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Stomping doesnt get any bonus adds (although it probably deserves 1/2 an add) - it is more for style reasons.... toe same out same outside?? hmm, I propose we call it gual From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 22:34:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15627 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 22:34:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29960 for