From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:32:08 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10758 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:32:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00356; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:11:46 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990730201136.FCQS22325.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:11:36 -0700 Message-ID: <37A2087E.9A69B862@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:18:06 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Davidson CC: Ian Dubman , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] missing the point (again)... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org the Enlightener said: > Whoever said that ripwalk is the same difficulty as double leg over is > trippin'. Have they tried ripwalk? Have they tried double leg over? > There is at least twice the energy output to complete a ripwalk as a double > legover. Scott is on to something here. Everyone's style IS different. Personally, I find that ripwalk is a good bail if I'm not going to get the double legover. For me, double legover requires twice the energy as ripwalk. But, seeing how many people hit double legover, I was thinking that that was a strong point in JBoy's system - that they were both equal in difficulty. > And whoever said blizzard is harder than > blur is nuts. They are identical difficulties. I do both on both sides > and they feel identical to me. Is that a biased statement? Yes. You go Scott. Again, personal styles come into play. Just out of curiosity, how many of you find it easier to do blizzard as opposed to blur? I can hit blur on demand (the weakside isn't quite on demand yet), but blizzard is still one of those moves that I am excited to hit just once. I was going to suggest a change to JBoys complimentary dex rule that did not remove an add for the reverse mirage. That way, double legover, dada and ripwalk *would* lose an add (as JBoy suggested) but blizzard, smudge or toe blizzard *would not* lose the add. If the majority of players feel the same way as Scott - saying that blizzard and blur are the same difficulty - then this would be a bad change. > This brings me to the ultimate point that noone seems to want to address... > If you skool something hard enough, and master it, then it becomes easy to > you. What is easy to me, is not necessarily easy to you and vice versa. > So the people who are defining the values of the new moves need to be very > careful not to prejudice the values to their styles. So, Scott, are you opposed to any change in the system? Don't you see some strong points in this whole DLS stuff? Personally, I think it sounds like we are finally on to something better than a butterfly dex counting the same as a reverse mirage dex. Or a whirl dex as opposed to a mirage dex. This all goes in to what I was saying a long time ago - an IN dex landing on clipper is harder than an IN dex landing on toe. And, an OUT dex landing on toe is harder than an OUT dex landing on clipper. I think that is basically what the DLS system is saying, but I haven't really heard any clarification on what I was asking earlier about the system. JBoy, are you still out there? Sorry to keep fanning the flames on this subject, but I really enjoy all of this. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:32:30 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10763 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:32:30 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:32:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f169.hotmail.com [216.32.181.169]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA05346 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:25:37 -0700 Received: (qmail 31148 invoked by uid 0); 31 Jul 1999 02:25:02 -0000 Message-ID: <19990731022502.31147.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.31.7.87 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:25:02 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.31.7.87] From: "Brian Mckenzie" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:25:02 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I totally agree that tripplessness detracts from the general variety of a string. First, a lot of us have certain moves that we can only hit off of something easy like a butterfly or paradow mirage. If we go trippless, we often neglect those harder, low percentage moves. Also, the string length is usually shortened by going trippless. I was totally trippless for about six months between 98 and 99 worlds. I switched back to doing threes a month before worlds 99 and don't regret it at all. Strings have gotten longer and more tricks have been hit because of the switch. Maybe in the future tripplessness will be a more realistic possibility, but at this point, the sport just isn't advanced enough to make tripplessness look stylish and smooth. Brian Mckenzie From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:32:42 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10768 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:32:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.118]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06077 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:24:00 -0700 Received: from postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net (postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.247]) by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id UAA28671; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from production@localhost) by postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) id UAA21860; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:24:00 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUAzK8uo85inN2+GhHTC1hU8fvAtxECFQCVxHUDIXMlkLdep0+NqoVjNcIt+w== From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:24:00 -0400 (EDT) To: footbug@hotmail.com (KeN Somolinos) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] missing the point (again)... Message-ID: <23834-37A26C50-16194@postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "KeN Somolinos" 's message of Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:27:47 PDT Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everybody ! Ken Somolinos wrote : >but a da da curve is essentially a >symposium ripwalk, and contains one >more add. I also feel that symposium toe set blur doesn't look better or is harder to hit than regular toe set blur. I say : Now, I just came from the freestyle move list @ www.footbag.org and it "still" lists da da as a 4 (adds that is ), same as ripwalk. I gotta say that I personally prefer the look of symposum toe blur over regular toe blur, by quite a bit. Shred it up, and we'll see you at Funtastik ? GF From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:41:06 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10803 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:41:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from pseudo (c392116-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.91.61]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA04672 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001801bedb0e$7a7d2700$1600a8c0@hysterical.net> From: "Ryan Mulroney" To: References: <199907302330.QAA06388@email.footbag.org> Subject: [freestyle] adds shmads Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:37:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org All right, I feel like getting in this whole add argument. For the most part, the only use of the add system is to judge difficulty on paper in competition. In shred circles, adds are totally irrelevent because all shredders know when something is hard or not regardless of the adds assigned. So rather than try to quantify every single category that goes into a final score in a freestyle routine why don't we just do what many smaller tournaments do and use the ranking system. For those of you who dont know, this system involves a panel of judges ranking the competitors in order from best to worst (1 being best, etc.) so that the best competitor will have the lowest score. This may be more proned to bias but it is definitely a whole lot easier than counting everything and adding fifteen minute numbers together to form an error-laidened number close to 27 that will only separate competitors by such a small amount that the winner can be decided by a fraction of a point that could be the result of an accidental tick mark by any number of judges. Anyone who has ever judged knows that it is nearly impossible to count everything totally accurately. With the ranking system, the best routine is recognized and selected...assuming we can round up quality judges, and we were able to this year for finals. Anyway, I just kind of feel that people know what's hard so inventing a system that is supposed to accurately slap a difficulty rating on every move seems both impossible and pointless. Ok, now it is time for people to yell at me...it happens every time I type into this list......Ryan The Regulator Mulroney From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:41:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10808 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:41:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15733 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:22:30 -0700 Received: from rac10.wam.umd.edu (root@rac10.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.150]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16737 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:22:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac10.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac10.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA06071 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac10.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06064 for freestyle@footbag.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907311622.MAA06064@rac10.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] DLS system Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org damn this is a great thread. awesome thoughts and words all the way around. my thoughts on the DLS is that it is a good idea for constructing a system of reevaluating the actually difficulty of moves, and that it demonstrates explicitly how difficult that really is. my interpretation of the difficulty assignements given to the first few moves says it needs more careful scrutiny. ( why is one clipper harder than the other? ) but it definitely needs to be considered, and could use CONSTRUCTIVE criticism from anyone who is willing to examine it. Simply put, as much as it seemed i was canning the idea initially, i expected everyone to try and help it become something useful, not blindly support or deny its usefulness. i actually only intended to stop the discussion from evolving into a useless comparison to the current judging system and the current ADS system. The current ADS system is known now by anyone who understands it to NOT BE a difficulty evaluating system. DanK put it best- it is a system for describing distribution among certain add categories. A potential system that might be easy to come up with might simply be to pull out aspects of what JBoy has accurately identified as more difficult elements in dexterous moves and create a new Add category for it/them/ and while we are at it, lets redefine the Body aspect, and re-examine the cross body aspects of the old system. If everyone is still in the heat of this discussion, would people be interested in examining routine scores? oh- also we shoudl probably come up with some system which takes into account chicken maneuvers. have to please everyone you know. l8r vince From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:41:31 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10813 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:41:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from postman.bayarea.net (postman.bayarea.net [205.219.84.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06171 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:31:23 -0700 Received: from baygate.bayarea.net (baygate.bayarea.net [204.71.212.2]) by postman.bayarea.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA51538 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:31:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jboy@bayarea.net) Received: from gram (205-219-66-227.bayarea.net [205.219.66.227]) by baygate.bayarea.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA11891 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003d01bedb05$4d7e6100$e342dbcd@gram> Reply-To: "Jboy" From: "Jboy Gran" To: Subject: [freestyle] DLS Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:54:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Steve, JBoy speaks fine for himself. If it seems like I disrespect him then >i am very sorry. Thank you, I do speak for myself alright. You haven't disrespected me in any way. For the record, none of Steve's defenses were requested. >i had no intention of disrespecting JBoys construction of dexterity analysis. >in itself it is brilliant and should be checked out and even utilized by anyone >wanting to more accurately describe the difficulties of their dexterous moves. Thank you, that is what I have been waiting to hear. >the term 'The' will expand its horizons. >as an example, how i do a paradox whirl may affect the quality of my dexterity. >nd how about the plane of the circle- what if my dexterity is oblique and >not perpendicular to the bag's horizon? This is a very important mistake that I made in explaining the system. What I mean by legs crossing the bag topside or underside is very difficult to explain without showing. To Derric: yes, the dex line is parallel to the ground, and is attatched to the bag, and travels with it as it moves. I don't know why I didn't realize this before, but, if strictly following my previous definition, the "the" problem does exist. This example may clarify: in a right clipper set to mirage ending on a right toe the left leg crosses the dex line topside. in a right clipper set to paradox mirage ending on a left toe, the left leg crosses the line underneath, then the right leg crosses underneath, then topside, and then the left toe catches the bag. Obviously the set could be (and probably *has* to be) so high as to pass over the legs instead of across them. The idea still stands, though. The idea is that because in a paradox move the bag travels farther across your body, and then back again, we should give it more points. >Again, how does this work out? I'm thinking that both a mirage and a >butterfly involve a leg going over the bag, right? And an ATW also goes >over, right? A double ATW goes over twice and under once? Let me know >if I'm missing things here. all correct. >Same thing with blizzard and blur - blur would >get an extra point. More crap. These loopholes are larger than the ones >we have in the current add system. Crap, crap, trash.) That is a very good point. It seems that the reason some opposite-leg double-dex moves is more the order in which they are performed, rather than just the direction. can you think of a better, perhaps more general rule that would fix this? remember, the whole point of this is to fix these problems before they start. >A new, more accurate system would be nice, but I do not think DLS is it. I'm not necessarily saying that it is. But I definitely think it is a start. What I really wanted as a response to this proposal was input. finally it seems i am getting some. Also, I am not proposing this "DLS" as it stands. I want more ideas...discussion, on other topics than dexterities. Such as: what of the idea that cross body (clipper) delays should count the same as toe delays? How about counting half spins instead of full ones, that way moves like osis vs. in-spins wouldn't get the same amount for spins. other ideas? Jboy From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:42:53 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10838 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:42:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f136.hotmail.com [209.185.131.199]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA22818 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 22:36:57 -0700 Received: (qmail 86950 invoked by uid 0); 1 Aug 1999 05:36:27 -0000 Message-ID: <19990801053627.86949.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.251.32.85 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 22:36:27 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.251.32.85] From: "alex ibardaloza" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] everybody's favorite subject: ADDS Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 05:36:27 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org W'sup, I just wanted to know how to count ADDS :) for a gimpy move. Is it a tilt? Is a gimpy b-fly, mirage, etc... considered one move or two? Does any body do any gimpy fliers? Later, Zeke From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:43:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10843 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:43:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15800 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:11:37 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zKXLa06600 (4539) for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:10:14 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Tennessee To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I was just at a youth conference in Knoxville, Tennessee. Anyone else that was there? Anyways one night I was in the courtyard by my dorm and I shredded for about an hour and a half. I did a lot of tricks I had never done, but the hardest I did was a butterfly. I impressed a lot of people. I was known as the hacky sack kid. It was awesome. It was really hot and I got dehydrated real bad. So, the moral of the story is, you can be awesome, but drink a lot of water. Owen Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 07:43:11 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10848 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:43:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18271 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:42:41 -0700 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (209-107-90-078.chicago.verio.net [209.107.90.78]) by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA04363; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:42:30 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990729213939.009899a0@mail.direcpc.com> References: <37A0CDA1.FC765A34@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:52:51 -0600 To: Matt Avery , Derric Scalf From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: Re: [freestyle] DLS - Dex Line System Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! >2) A paradon is as hard is a Blur. (already stated in the current system) How does the system handle paradon vs down double down vs barfly vs double over down? All technically the same move, but we all agree they are very different. Hmmm... you tell me. 'sup? >3) A torque is nearly as difficult as a *SPINNING* paradox mirage. (I have >been brought up to think that in order the be gyro, the first dex of the >move is IN>OUT and is made by the set leg. Hence, gyro drifter and gyro >torque (vortex and mobius). Otherwise, you are talking spinning) You've now thoroughly confused me. Gyro refers more to the spin than the direction of the dex, unless there is something new that I haven't heard about. See ya! Scott D. Enlightener From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 11:11:32 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11008 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:11:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.hctc.com (mail.hctc.com [208.25.168.2]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA00620 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 02:02:33 -0700 Received: from hctc.com (hccs29.hctc.com [208.25.168.29]) by mail.hctc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29420 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 01:58:46 -0700 Message-ID: <37A6A1D8.DF416645@hctc.com> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 02:01:28 -0600 From: Chris Stearns X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freestyle@footbag.org" Subject: [freestyle] A step up.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, this message is to all of the really new footbaggers (like my self) who read all of the mail and dont know what anything is that they are talking about(also like my self). I just wanted to say one thing that helped me with my footbag skills. To let you know about my weak skills, I just started hitting right and left clipper stalls consistently and I consider it a big step for me. One of the things that helped me was investing in a "real" footbag. This message obviously isnt to all of you pro's but to the kids like me who just kick for recreation. Just last week I invested in a "facile juice" footbag that I bought from the foot mart at the world footbag assosation website (http://worldfootbag.com/). This improved my game INCREDIBLY. I now have much more control with the footbag. The damn thing set me back about $30.00 (which i think is way to expensive:) but after a few days of playing with the new bag, the improvements became very noticable! Thats all i want to say. i hope this helps some of you people like me! Cheers Chris Stearns From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 11:42:23 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11035 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:42:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11032 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:42:23 -0700 Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01159 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 03:55:49 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.198] (dhcp-206-67-46-84 [206.67.46.84]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25484 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 03:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 03:58:21 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: [freestyle] Dope Freestyle Photo Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm especially proud of this one: http://www.footbag.org/gallery/show/w99-210.jpg Now, does anyone have photos from finals? I unfortunately was in HELL at finals and so I didn't have a chance to take any pictures with my digicam. Digital photos are preferred since I don't have time to scan things. If you can e-mail me directly to let me know, I'd appreciate it. Any photos I put online will be copyrighted and credited however the author requests. Also, please remember everyone that footbag.org is *your* website, too. Just ask me and I will give you access to put any photos or videos there so people can find them easily. It is a free service of the World-Wide Footbag Foundation. Steve From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 11:52:56 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11062 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:52:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from edtnps05.telusplanet.net (edtnps05.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.105]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16166 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:25:31 -0700 Received: from gdprpx03-port-43.agt.net ([161.184.232.182]:2110 "HELO towerpowerii") by smtp2.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <702171-21161>; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:25:54 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990729192232.00808cd0@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: moukorfos@mail.geocities.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:22:32 -0600 To: footbag@footbag.org From: Mou Korfos Subject: [freestyle] Pactice stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Peoples. I am one of those Foot Bag Freaks that live in like total isolation. No one around here is any good at it (that I know) and here is not really around any where. There are no clubs within a 5 hour drive. So you are my life line. hehehe I do occasionaly get to play with people, however I am 'passing handicaped' is there anything I can do to master the pass? I can go till I hit the ground out of breath by my self. (please ignore any sexual inuendos) Also any one have tips for clipper stals? If any one wants tips from me.... Practice till your legs are num and you can't lift them any more. And never wear shoes! hehehe If you can do it with out them you can sure as hell do it with them. -Mou Korfos Moukorfos@geocities.com ICQ #2467105 | Welcome Transmition: | To "Normal is the average of all weirdness" | The End Transmition. |:> | Jungle. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 18:40:46 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11551 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:40:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05357 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 06:15:05 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA10567 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:15:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds shmads Message-Id: <000001243713016530938@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 08:15:38 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, Jul 30, 1999, 11:37:50 PM US CST Ryan Mulroney wrote: >order from best to worst (1 being best, etc.) so that the best competitor >will have the lowest score. This may be more proned to bias but it is >definitely a whole lot easier than counting everything and adding fifteen I've long been a champion of the simple ranking system. Bias, yes, but bias happens just as easily in the 'formula' system, too. The difference is that ranking happens on a more immediate level: the judge simply says "I thought this performance was better than that one" rather than being able to hide behind some system of counting and numbers. ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle The chicken fossil that thinks competitions should be decided on the loudness of squawks coming from the audience! From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 18:40:49 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11556 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:40:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05961 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 06:50:44 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA25317; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:50:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:50:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Chris Stearns cc: "freestyle@footbag.org" Subject: Re: [freestyle] A step up.... In-Reply-To: <37A6A1D8.DF416645@hctc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > that I bought from the foot mart at the world footbag assosation website > (http://worldfootbag.com/). This improved my game INCREDIBLY. I now > have much more control with the footbag. The damn thing set me back > about $30.00 (which i think is way to expensive:) but after a few days > of playing with the new bag, the improvements became very noticable! Wow. The bag couldn't be broken in very much in just a few days. The juice I had took weeks before it was any good to shred with. So if your bag has already improved your game noticably, then it should help a ton when it is fully borken in. What kind of footbag did you used to kick with? You should play with a carol or some other really good bag that is better than a juice. Later From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 19:21:39 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11633 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:21:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09901 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:27:16 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990803182714.RJXC8716.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:27:14 -0700 Message-ID: <37A73630.3E0D719D@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 13:34:24 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] DLS system References: <199907311622.MAA06064@rac10.wam.umd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Vince Bradley wrote: > > my interpretation of the difficulty assignements given to the first few moves > says it needs more careful scrutiny. ( why is one clipper harder than > the other? ) It is slightly harder (for me at least) to set a clipper from the same toe (opposite side of body) than it is to set from op toe. Left foot clipper is slightly easier when set from right toe than left toe. My question is : would a left foot clipper set from right foot clipper be worth one more than set from left toe which would be one more than set either from right toe or left clipper? > oh- also we shoudl probably come up with some system which takes into > account chicken maneuvers. Of course. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 19:24:42 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11643 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:24:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09979 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:30:35 -0700 Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu (root@rac1.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.141]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05269 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:30:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA17193 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17189 for freestyle@footbag.org; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908031830.OAA17189@rac1.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] JBoys system, The regul8r speaks Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Ryan, VInce again. great words. i agree. But, i also am not a fan of Job's notation, so i value the valiant attempts to reach agreements with new systems. JBoy- great response. I'll be looking forward to seeing more complete analysis of dexterity difficulties and further versions of the DLS system. I think a widening of 'the ' horizons is unavoidable- comes with the competitive arena of differing styles. one thing that is worth noting for me is some moves are easier in symposium. dada versus rip walk is a great example. basically a symposium allows for dexterities to be less dexterous. you CAN do a dada and make it huge, with quality dexterity, but you don't have to to do a decent one. I think Ryans words hit the notion well- we DO all know how and why some moves are harder than others, and that it is not currently quantified accurately ( or at all ) by the ADS system. BUT, we do understand each other, and we can teach newcomers to understand fairly easily. Ranking system at worlds? Just have Kenny point. He guessed the top eight this year without knowing results. So could probably many pros. I guess the problem is int he anticipated perception of our sport by outsiders. 'Their judging system is bogus.' but then again, most sports like ours haven't gotten anywhere by caring about stuff like that. question is did they get anywhere not caring... sorry for the babble. the procrastan8r moves on... From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 19:25:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11653 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:25:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10029 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:33:32 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990803183327.RLTH8716.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:33:27 -0700 Message-ID: <37A737A4.192F1A8E@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 13:40:36 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pactice stuff References: <3.0.6.32.19990729192232.00808cd0@mail.geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Mou Korfos wrote: > Also any one have tips for clipper stals? But of course. Go to http://www.dallasfootbag.org/tutorials/the_clipper_delay.html Many of the links are dead... you don't need to tell me that. This is a work in progress, but the clipper stuff is done. > If any one wants tips from me.... Practice till your legs are num and you > can't lift them any more. And never wear shoes! The practice thing I can get with. About the shoes... you NEED shoes (unless you are Kenny) to kick. If you are trying to learn a move, the shoes help a lot. Don't get discouraged just because you are trying to learn things the hard way. As Chris said earlier, you need a good bag. The shoes and shorts help a lot too. It is easy to get discouraged and think that things are too hard if you are playing barefoot, in pants, or with a knit Sipa. Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 3 21:03:17 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA11754 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:03:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.hctc.com (mail.hctc.com [208.25.168.2]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12176 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:15:10 -0700 Received: from hctc.com (hccs132.hctc.com [208.25.168.132]) by mail.hctc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15650; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:11:21 -0700 Message-ID: <37A73F7B.84E56C0@hctc.com> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 13:14:04 -0600 From: Chris Stearns X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jeremiah J. Riely" , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] A step up.... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The bag that I was using was nit and it was really stiff and bouncy compared to the juice that I have now. Im pretty sure it was just a generic toy but i did master all of the basic stalls with it(toe,insider,outside, clippers stalls sometimes...) I knew that breaking in the bag was a big deal....after neading it around in my hands for a good 3 or 4 hours (over a period of time!) the bag was pretty comfortable to play with. As for getting a new bag......I already dropped 30 bucks on this one and its working out fine right now. If I got more serious about the sport I might invest a litttle more money in a better footbag. See Ya Chris Stearns From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 03:44:47 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA12004 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 03:44:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from m6.jersey.juno.com (m6.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13102 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:15:39 -0700 Received: (from jmlane2@juno.com) by m6.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EG5JXY5V; Tue, 03 Aug 1999 17:14:34 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:04:38 -0700 Subject: [freestyle] good, or bad footbags Message-ID: <19990803.150442.-3517973.0.jmlane2@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,3,14-16 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Jason M Lane Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, I am a beginning footbagger, so right off I am going to apologize for how elementary my questions are going to sound. And I am new to the list so I don't know exactly what I am doing. I've been using a sued footbag w/ dirt filling for a while and got pretty used to it, but read on the net that the the synthetic sued juice footbags were one of the best for beginners, so I bought it. When it arrived I broke it in as they say on Hackmans web page (washing it and kicking it), and I also rolled it vigorously in my hands as they said in the WFA players manual. After it was more broken in I began kicking it and its filling started to leak. So I was looking for suggestions on a reasonably priced but good footbag that is good for skoolin' and stallin' (that was another problem with my juice, I couldn't stall it well), I was thinking about either the Legend or the Alpha footbag by flying clipper. I'd love to get some input. Jason Lane From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 03:44:42 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA11999 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 03:44:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f110.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.110]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA32160 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:36:43 -0700 Received: (qmail 38530 invoked by uid 0); 30 Jul 1999 19:36:04 -0000 Message-ID: <19990730193604.38529.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 151.201.61.7 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:36:04 PDT X-Originating-IP: [151.201.61.7] From: "Tim Cooley" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] hitting tricks Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:36:04 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey, i am a relatively average kicker and i was wondering on what i should do during my practice regimesin order to start hitting tricks like the DRIFTER and the DOUBLE-DOWN OVER. i am trying my luck with the blur at the present moment and the timing is throwing me off. is there something "extra" that i should be doing to get a feel for these so that i can hit them in a circle? thanx. Tim From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 03:45:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA12039 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 03:45:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f224.hotmail.com [207.82.251.115]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA13113 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:15:54 -0700 Received: (qmail 55652 invoked by uid 0); 3 Aug 1999 21:15:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19990803211520.55651.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.161.81 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 03 Aug 1999 14:15:19 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.161.81] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds shmads Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 14:15:19 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Regulator wrote: >For the most part, the only use of the add system is to judge >difficulty >on paper in competition. In shred circles, adds are >totally irrelevent >because all shredders know when something is hard >or not regardless of the >adds assigned. I would like to "add" one more criticism to this list. The fact that the ADD system or DLS for that matter, does not take into account moves done in combination. Paradox dragon-fly is a 3, torque is a 4 (replace with DLS #s if you wish). Neither are amazingly difficult by themselves. But put them one after the other, and you've got something even the top players in the world would have a hard time hitting. The sport of diving can assign difficulty to dives because divers can only do one dive at a time. Footbag isn't diving. Moves ARE done in combination, almost always. So even if DLS, which I like better than ADDS, is developed, it won't be a panacea. >So rather than try to quantify every single category that goes >into a final score in a freestyle routine why don't we just do what >many >smaller tournaments do and use the ranking system. For those of >you who >dont know, this system involves a panel of judges ranking >the competitors >in order from best to worst (1 being best, etc.) so >that the best >competitor will have the lowest score. Amen. My motto: "Keep it simple, stupid." >This may be more proned to bias but it is definitely a whole lot >easier >than counting everything and adding fifteen minute numbers >together to >form an error-laidened number close to 27 that will only >separate >competitors by such a small amount that the winner can be >decided by a fraction of a point that could be the result of an >accidental >tick mark by any number of judges. Anyone who has ever >judged knows that >it is nearly impossible to count everything >totally accurately. With the >ranking system, the best routine is >recognized and selected...assuming we >can round up quality judges, >and we were able to this year for finals. Imagine this, ESPN calls and wants to air Worlds live. Our response: "Sorry, our judging system takes at least 15 minutes to get results. No can do." Another hypothetical situation. Worlds 2004, grand prize: $50,000. Josh Penney wins. But after looking at the video tape, it is found that a judge counted one too many unusals, the add count got screwed up, etc., etc. What happens to the holes in our judging system when REAL money is on the line? Maybe a couple of lawsuits? Even though the "big time" may be a ways down the road, we should be ready for it. >Ok, now it is time for people to yell at me...it happens every time >I type >into this list......Ryan The Regulator >Mulroney I AM YELLING AT YOU! YOU STINK! BAD! Thanks. DanK _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 03:54:42 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA12244 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 03:54:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12241 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 03:54:41 -0700 Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18005 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:08:05 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.198] (dhcp-206-67-46-219 [206.67.46.219]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25806 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990803211520.55651.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <19990803211520.55651.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:10:29 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds shmads Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:15 PM -0700 8/3/99, Daniel Kramer wrote: >>So rather than try to quantify every single category that goes >>into a final score in a freestyle routine why don't we just do >>what >many smaller tournaments do and use the ranking system. For >>those of >you who dont know, this system involves a panel of judges >>ranking >the competitors in order from best to worst (1 being best, >>etc.) so >that the best competitor will have the lowest score. > >Amen. My motto: "Keep it simple, stupid." Okay, just so everyone's clear, this is a change of subject. Now we're on the judging system and not the way we assess relative difficulty of moves. Let me go on record with my opinions so nobody is confused as to where my long-winded e-mails are heading: (1) I think the current judging system is WAY too complicated and sucks. Period. For about twenty reasons, the least of which is the add system. (2) I *much* prefer a simple ranking system for about 10,000,000 reasons. (The least of which is the same reason I didn't get to kick at Worlds at all. I know nobody feels sorry for me, but damn it was frustrating to have to do all that stupid organization, 95% of which was directly correlated to the complexity of the judging system.) (3) Regardless of the judging system, we still need (I repeat, *need*) a way to assess difficulty that makes sense. The current system is failing us more and more. DLS is not the perfect system; it's just the start of a more productive dialog than we've had before about ways in which we could codify our concepts of difficulty. Ryan says everyone just "knows" what's harder -- well, that's true, but *why* do we know it? That's all a system like DLS is trying to do -- explain what it *is* that makes one trick harder than the other. That's it for now. I don't expect any rebuttal 'cause I'm not arguing a point. Just clarifying my opinions in case anyone cares. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 06:25:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA12389 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:25:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Cam Meyer Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19972 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:30:23 -0700 Received: from CMDrummer2@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zJDCa00254 (4546) for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:29:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:29:29 EDT Subject: [freestyle] basics, heh :) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, my name is Cam Meyer, and i have been uhh shreddin (geez, new word, i am really a newbie at this) the past 5 days or so and am starting to really get into this sport. I started a year or 2 ago, but i really didn't try that hard, just kicking around with a few friends, we sucked our record was like 4 kicks in a row, so i haven't played since, anyway, i need help and i am not sure if this is the right group or if i should post this message in the footbag group instead of freestyle. well enuff with my life story, here goes: i have looked on various websites and have yet to find any tips on practicing, i have found a stretching routine though that helps, i have my inside kicks down pretty well, i think, and my record is around 18 kicks, alternating feet (see i need help, i usually get 8) next i have been trying to work on toe kicks, but it took lots of experimenting to get it down(my left leg especially it isn't as coordinated,), i still can only get a good kick off, or what i think looks fairly good, 1 out of every 3 or 4 times, well i guess i will just have to practice a lot on them until they are good, but, i don't know if i am even doing them right, i have yet to find on any website explanations on how to do these basic moves, i have pretty much taught myself, next i would like to try outside kicks, and the ones behind me. does anyway here have any advice about the order to learn the basics, or any tips on doing them, i read somewhere about crunching your toes in when u do an inside kick to make your foot flatter but i don't know if it works, ya know, tips like that, i could really use the help and would be very gratefull, advice from the pros would help me a LOT, i learn pretty quickly, well i won't waste any more of your time, thanx Cameron Meyer From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 15:09:29 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12687 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:09:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from m6.jersey.juno.com (m6.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20964 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:12:29 -0700 Received: (from jmlane2@juno.com) by m6.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EG6L5XU3; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 03:12:01 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:12:18 -0700 Subject: [freestyle] keeping my foot flat Message-ID: <19990803.131224.-79721.1.jmlane2@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,7-9 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Jason M Lane Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, Once I do get a good bag, any suggestions on how to keep my foot flat for the clipper stall? I' ve looked on a bunch of web pages and have the motion good (I've even stalled it a few times with my dirt filled bag), but I can't seem to keep my foot flat enough to keep the bag on my foot. It could be the shoe because i can't afford the Rod Lavers right now, and wear Vans. And I hope to learn the clipper because I heard its "the root of all moves", or something like that. later, Jason From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 15:09:22 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12682 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:09:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20814 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:00:05 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990804070004.ZNKQ8716.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:00:04 -0700 Message-ID: <37A7E6A7.6D18567B@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 02:07:19 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jason M Lane CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] good, or bad footbags References: <19990803.150442.-3517973.0.jmlane2@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jason M Lane wrote: > After it was more broken in I began kicking it > and its filling started to leak. So I was looking for suggestions on a > reasonably priced but good footbag that is good for skoolin' and stallin' > (that was another problem with my juice, I couldn't stall it well), I was > thinking about either the Legend or the Alpha footbag by flying clipper. > I'd love to get some input. If you get a synthe-suede bag, you will have problems breaking it in. Period. You NEED a *facile* bag. Yes, facile is a type of synthesuede, but it is a very thin kind. Facile bags require extra care (you never want to do toe pickups where you scrape them on concrete) but they are well worth the extra time and money. As I have said many times, if you are looking for a bag to kick, get facile. If you are looking for a bag that will last forever, get a rock... they never wear out. Good bags last about a year and then you have to replace them. Carol bags are my favorite. If you can find a Hu-Mungus or a Richard Abshire bag you won't be dissapointed. A FACILE juice, stork, or kanga will give you good amounts of kick time. The main thing here is FACILE. Another thing to keep in mind is this: The more panels a bag has the rounder it is. Also, the more panels a bag has, the more stitching is involved. Stitching makes a bag hard... fabric breaks in, thread doesn't. So, you need to find a happy medium. A legend is, what?, 42 panels. They look good, but they don't break in very well. Get a juice, stork or kanga and you will be much happier. Those dirt filled bags (dirtbag, sandbag and "dirty" juices) are great for practicing stalls. Grab one of those while you are ordering your other - they are pretty cheap and give you good practice. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 15:09:55 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12702 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:09:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28221 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 05:46:29 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA14759; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:46:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:46:22 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Jason M Lane cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] good, or bad footbags In-Reply-To: <19990803.150442.-3517973.0.jmlane2@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > (that was another problem with my juice, I couldn't stall it well), I was > thinking about either the Legend or the Alpha footbag by flying clipper. > I'd love to get some input. Get a facile juice. Facile bags are way better than suede bags, just be careful with it. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 15:10:46 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12714 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:10:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com ([209.185.241.49]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA28556 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:33:42 -0700 Received: (qmail 38121 invoked by uid 0); 4 Aug 1999 13:33:15 -0000 Message-ID: <19990804133315.38120.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 06:33:14 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.62] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:33:14 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org World's staff and others, I was curious as to when a DETAILED categorical breakdown of the results of freestyle would be posted. Actually, I guess the better question would be, is a detailed categorical breakdown of the results(scores) going to be posted anywhere. Thanx, Ian D. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 15:24:13 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12752 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:24:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12749 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:24:12 -0700 Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29351 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:37:34 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.219] (dhcp-206-67-46-219 [206.67.46.219]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18044 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990804133315.38120.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <19990804133315.38120.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:40:16 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 8:33 AM -0500 8/4/99, Ian Dubman wrote: >World's staff and others, Don't you just mean, "Steve"? > I was curious as to when a DETAILED categorical breakdown of >the results of freestyle would be posted. Actually, I guess the >better question would be, is a detailed categorical breakdown of the >results(scores) going to be posted anywhere. You just can't imagine how burnt out I am. Never fear. I will upload the detailed data and e-mail the freestyle list as soon as it's up. I almost always do. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 17:08:11 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13130 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:08:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31050 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:54:53 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zQLNa03711 (4543) for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:54:05 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Pennsylvania Shred To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org If I organized a shred, not a contest, in the Pittsburgh area how many people would be interested in attending? Owen "Just Joined the WFA" Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 18:53:11 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13278 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:53:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f11.hotmail.com [216.32.181.11]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA00499 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:44:03 -0700 Received: (qmail 83041 invoked by uid 0); 4 Aug 1999 17:43:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19990804174329.83040.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.167.114.190 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 10:43:29 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.167.114.190] From: "Ryan Britt" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Hackman's Page?? Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 10:43:29 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi there. I was just wondering if anyone knows what happened to Hackman's Page. I first discovered it about 3 months ago and it hasn't been updated since. Did the webmaster just stop updating? By the way if there are any beginners out there who haven't been to Hackman's Page I definately recommend checking it out. It provides a great introduction to the sport of freestyle and illustrates the fundamental moves. The URL is: http://www.eatel.net/~ratcliff/mainmenu.htm - Ryan Britt From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 18:53:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13273 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:53:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00347 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:37:09 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zVLUa28698 (3961) for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:36:25 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Tevas vs. Lavers To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm writing this hoping someone else has experienced this. I learned to shred in Tevas. I love them a lot. But I've never tried Lavers. Is it really worth whatever the amount of money is to buy Lavers. Or should I just stick with Tevas? Owen " " Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 18:53:07 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13268 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:53:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com ([209.185.241.230]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA00424 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:41:25 -0700 Received: (qmail 97294 invoked by uid 0); 4 Aug 1999 17:40:50 -0000 Message-ID: <19990804174050.97293.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 10:40:50 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.62] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 12:40:50 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I wrote: >>World's staff and others, > >Don't you just mean, "Steve"? Steve, your modesty is impressive...hehe. Seriously, I was going to just specificly ask you, butI thought MAYBE someone else could have done this to ease your work load...guess not. >You just can't imagine how burnt out I am. Probably not, so don't stress about it. We will see the results when you have the time and the will to do it. You could always make Cory Current do it; I hear he is getting lazy these days. >Never fear. I will upload the detailed data and e-mail the freestyle >list as soon as it's up. I almost always do. :-) Thank you. Everyone should give Steve a hand for his footbag promotional work and for putting up with all our shit--lord knows we get enuff of his...hehe. Later, Ian D. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 18:53:28 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13298 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:53:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (root@diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32218 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:08:44 -0700 Received: from default (madmax-103.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.103]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA27743 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990804100654.007d8100@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 10:06:54 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Tu Vu Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? In-Reply-To: <19990804133315.38120.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 08:33 AM 8/4/99 CDT, Ian Dubman wrote: >World's staff and others, > I was curious as to when a DETAILED categorical breakdown of the >results of freestyle would be posted. Actually, I guess the better question >would be, is a detailed categorical breakdown of the results(scores) going >to be posted anywhere. forget this year! i'm still waiting for worlds 1998's detailed results which was quoted "to be up and running in a day or so" after the top finisher results were published last year in august. oh well, i'll guess i'll count it all myself. 2 huge From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 18:59:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13318 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:59:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13315 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:59:00 -0700 Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01264 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:12:21 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.219] (dhcp-206-67-46-219 [206.67.46.219]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26857 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990804100654.007d8100@sfsu.edu> References: <3.0.1.32.19990804100654.007d8100@sfsu.edu> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:14:40 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 10:06 AM -0700 8/4/99, Tu Vu wrote: >i'm still waiting for worlds 1998's detailed results As I said, "almost always". >which was quoted >"to be up and running in a day or so" after the top finisher results were >published last year in august. For a definition of "thankless job", see "Worlds", "website", "results", "money", and "organization". Cross-reference "burn-out" and "taken for granted". :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 19:27:03 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13436 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:27:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01743 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:34:38 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA08812 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:34:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? Message-Id: <000001252003016636531@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:35:31 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, Aug 4, 1999, 12:40:50 PM US CST Ian Dubman wrote: >Thank you. Everyone should give Steve a hand for his footbag promotional >work and for putting up with all our shit--lord knows we get enuff of Giving him a hand would be nice, but few things would say "We love you Steve" like a case of Guiness. ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle The chicken fossil that wants to say, "bk bk bk bkAWK!" to Steve. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 19:41:32 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13496 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:41:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from majordomo2.umd.edu (majordomo2.umd.edu [128.8.10.7]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02184 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:52:57 -0700 Received: from rac8.wam.umd.edu (root@rac8.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.148]) by majordomo2.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25173 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:52:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac8.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac8.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA17167 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:52:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac8.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17161 for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:52:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:52:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908041852.OAA17161@rac8.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] World's Judging year 2000 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org what can be done to change the judging system to be used next year in Vancouver? I see no reason why it must remain the system we have been using. I definitely want to hear arguments. Whatever system we decide to use, it should be tested by sanctioned regional tournaments in the upcoming year. no one get your hopes up, i am making a wave, but there might be a wall in the way. Dan, how would you run freestyel in the year 2000? l8r vince From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 19:41:53 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13506 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:41:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from homer.tomahawktech.com ([206.191.48.232]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02085 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:46:17 -0700 Received: from pc0966.software.mitel.com (Administrators@localhost) by homer.tomahawktech.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA00291 for ; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 14:47:54 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Message-ID: <00c801bedea9$a2e97240$c136c786@software.mitel.com> From: "Dave Reid" To: References: <19990804174329.83040.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] Hackman's Page?? Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:46:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ----- Original Message ----- > beginners out there who haven't been to Hackman's Page I definately > recommend checking it out. It provides a great introduction to the sport of > freestyle and illustrates the fundamental moves. > The URL is: > http://www.eatel.net/~ratcliff/mainmenu.htm > > - Ryan Britt It hasn't been updated in at least 2 years. I first noticed it around then. That webmaster is even lazier than Steve! :P That hackman site is a great place for people who are starting out. I remember how confused I was about TOE > JUMP [BOD] > OP OUT [DEX] > OP CLIP [XBD] at the start, and the little stickmen really help :) Dave From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 20:09:04 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA13570 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 20:09:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web214.mail.yahoo.com (web214.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.114]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA02418 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:07:16 -0700 Message-ID: <19990804190105.14531.rocketmail@web214.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [165.121.33.40] by web214.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 12:01:05 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:01:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zerbe Subject: [freestyle] Freestyle in Portland To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey what's up Shred Heads? I was just wondering if any freestylers are going to show up at the U.S. Open in Portland. I live in Seattle and want to know what the scene is going to be like if I drive down there for the weekind. So if you're planing on freestyling in P-town (Forest??) Let me know. And if anyone needs a ride from Seattle, no problem. C'mon folks I need a good excuse to get out of town. ZERBE From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 21:44:19 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13644 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:44:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (root@diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04145 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:20:38 -0700 Received: from default (madmax-24.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.24]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA11642 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990804132038.007e1100@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:20:38 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Tu Vu Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990804100654.007d8100@sfsu.edu> <3.0.1.32.19990804100654.007d8100@sfsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:14 AM 8/4/99 -0700, Steve Goldberg wrote: >For a definition of "thankless job", see "Worlds", "website", >"results", "money", and "organization". Cross-reference "burn-out" >and "taken for granted". :-) ok steve I think you deserve a round of applause. You have done so much over the years, i was just busting your chops :-) I would like to personally thank STEVE for his hard earned efforts and "money" into making a kick ass website. But one thing i think i would like to see.... www.footbag.org t-shirts that would be good promotion. 2 huge From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 21:48:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13664 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:48:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f135.hotmail.com [207.82.251.14]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA04863 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:58:57 -0700 Received: (qmail 27682 invoked by uid 0); 4 Aug 1999 20:58:22 -0000 Message-ID: <19990804205822.27681.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.161.81 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:58:22 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.161.81] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] World's Judging year 2000 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:58:22 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Dan, how would you run freestyle in the year 2000? I would just run. DK From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 21:50:34 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13676 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:50:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13673 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:50:34 -0700 Received: from spectre.atext.com (spectre.atext.com [204.62.245.27]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05015 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:03:55 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.219] (dhcp-206-67-46-219 [206.67.46.219]) by spectre.atext.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19582 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199908041852.OAA17161@rac8.wam.umd.edu> References: <199908041852.OAA17161@rac8.wam.umd.edu> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:06:08 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] World's Judging year 2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 2:52 PM -0400 8/4/99, Vince Bradley wrote: >what can be done to change the judging system to be used next year >in Vancouver? Actually, not too much, at least not according to IFC (formerly IFAB). The rules and procedures for Worlds updated on an annual basis, where January 1, 2000 is the beginning of the next year. The rule changes (which I'll try to summarize in a message to the announcements list soon -- yet another thing I don't know why I'm doing) that go into effect in January are the ones we voted on last month in Chicago. There were no proposals made about adding or modifying the fundamentals of the judging system itself. >I see no reason why it must remain the system we have been using. Because players develop routines and practice with the expectation that they will be judged according to the established rules set forth by IFC. We can change it, but we need to do it by the book or else we risk all sorts of problems. Steve From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 4 23:34:39 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA13781 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 23:34:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com ([209.185.241.199]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA06115 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:05:01 -0700 Received: (qmail 14661 invoked by uid 0); 4 Aug 1999 22:04:30 -0000 Message-ID: <19990804220430.14660.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 15:04:30 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.62] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 17:04:30 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Tu "Huge" Vu But one thing i think i would like to see.... > >www.footbag.org t-shirts > Dude, killer idea. That would nice--what do ya say Steve? Hell, what does everyone say? As Steve says, it is OUR site--he just does all the work. That would seriously be a dope promo. HUGE idea, Tu!! Late, Ian D. MUFF'IAN --- gets baked daily, mmm mmm good... From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 01:53:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA13998 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 01:53:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.hctc.com (mail.hctc.com [208.25.168.2]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08366 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:54:26 -0700 Received: from hctc.com (hccs61.hctc.com [208.25.168.61]) by mail.hctc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12901; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:50:28 -0700 Message-ID: <37A8C469.29BFC2CC@hctc.com> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 16:53:29 -0600 From: Chris Stearns X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jason M Lane , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] keeping my foot flat References: <19990803.131224.-79721.1.jmlane2@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The main thing I really concentrated on while I was getting consistent with clippers is really bending your support knee. Do you have your inside stalls down? Make sure you are totally consistent with those also. I hope this helps you a little.:) Chris Stearns From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 01:53:32 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA13993 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 01:53:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web901.mail.yahoo.com (web901.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.76]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA07787 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:28:10 -0700 Message-ID: <19990804232503.23877.rocketmail@web901.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.191.169.19] by web901.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 16:25:03 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:25:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Reply-To: iguana04@SPRYNET.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Tu "Huge" Vu But one thing i think i would like to see.... > >www.footbag.org t-shirts Cool Tu... walking billboards for www.footbag.org www.footbag.org is pretty much what we holler out to anyone walking by checking us out already. A t-shirt is an awesome idea. And hey Steve...if you charge enough (because *you* WILL be the one designing, creating and distributing these, ya know) maybe you can make some money back on this website afterall. A BIG thanks to Steve Goldberg for www.footbag.org t-shirts. D'oh! that's how rumors get started ;-) Hey Tu, maybe you can design one to save Steve some time. Or maybe we could have a contest for coolest design and the winner gets a free shirt or footbag or something. Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 01:53:38 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA14003 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 01:53:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from chupacabras.flash.net (chupacabras.flash.net [209.30.6.16]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08759 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:22:53 -0700 Received: from flash.net (ip195.dallas13.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.164.195]) by chupacabras.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03319; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:22:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37A8DAC8.D3E5EA7B@flash.net> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 19:28:56 -0500 From: Dan Eaton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org, dan.eaton@usa.alcatel.com Subject: Re: [freestyle] adds shmads References: <000001243713016530938@mlerf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: > On Fri, Jul 30, 1999, 11:37:50 PM US CST Ryan Mulroney wrote: > > >order from best to worst (1 being best, etc.) so that the best competitor > >will have the lowest score. This may be more proned to bias but it is > >definitely a whole lot easier than counting everything and adding fifteen > > I've long been a champion of the simple ranking system. Bias, yes, but bias > happens just as easily in the 'formula' system, too. The difference is that > ranking happens on a more immediate level: the judge simply says "I thought > this performance was better than that one" rather than being able to hide > behind some system of counting and numbers. > > ______________________________________ > Derrick Fogle > The chicken fossil that thinks competitions should be decided on the loudness > of squawks coming from the audience! Besides, a bias error inadvertently designed into a 'formula' system will always be applied until the bias is corrected. Unless a perfect 'formula' system is devised (unlikely) such biases will be a fact of life. On the other hand, the bias associated with a perception-based judging system should be more of a more random nature ("white noise-ish"). It would then stand to reason that using a panel of judges and "averaging" the results (perceptions) should effectively cancel the bias and give a fairly objective result in most cases. As long as there was a panel of at least qualified five judges (none of which routinely kick together just attempt to increase the likelihood of different judging perspectives and minimize bias associated with personal acquaintance with competitors), I think the results could be trusted to yield the best performance. Anyway, what do I know about it. Just an observation. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 06:10:52 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA14429 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 06:10:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from edtnps04.telusplanet.net (edtnps04.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.104]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12524 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:12:45 -0700 Received: from gdprpx04-port-33.agt.net ([161.184.232.241]:1356 "HELO towerpowerii") by smtp1.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <44322-25106>; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 23:12:16 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990804230944.00811430@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: moukorfos@mail.geocities.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 23:09:44 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Mou Korfos Subject: [freestyle] New adds system Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi just a few thoughts from Mou. >Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: [snip] >It would then stand to reason that using a >panel of judges and "averaging" the results (perceptions) should effectively >cancel the bias and give a fairly objective result in most cases. As long as >there was a panel of at least qualified five[run on sentance] judges (none of which routinely >kick together just attempt to increase the likelihood of different judging >perspectives [still going] and minimize bias associated with personal acquaintance with >competitors), I think the results could be trusted to [are we there yet?] yield the best >performance. [snip] This is what I've ben wondering. Why hasn't any one else said this? If footbag is to grow as a sport into the internation arena of sports this is wear you have to go. Panel judging. Certified Judges that no longer compete, they get paided to watch. The sport is not ready yet, the money is not there. Give it a decade and with hard work from people like Steve it will get there. The rest of you could drop the bag one anda while and chip in too. If you want a new add system do it right. [snip] Actually, not too much, at least not according to IFC (formerly IFAB). The rules and procedures for Worlds updated on an annual basis, where January 1, 2000 is the beginning of the next year. The rule changes (which I'll try to summarize in a message to the announcements list soon -- yet another thing I don't know why I'm doing) that go into effect in January are the ones we voted on last month in Chicago. There were no proposals made about adding or modifying the fundamentals of the judging system itself. [snip] At the next annual general meeting show up and make a motion to have the add system put under consideration[better yet have it put on the agenda]. If you are really ambitious you could even make a proposal, detailing a new system that you have being working on for the last year. These things take time. There is a lot of stuff involved, and the politics are very heavy. Believe it or not this is a thing of international consideration, and if you ever want to see this sport make it to the Olympics or become well known these are the things you have to do. Don't ask me why. And please stop bickering over what moves are harder... geesh it's like having a bunch of three year olds running around! Try actaully putting some thought into a new system that is fairly simple and incorperates new strengths and the old strengths of the current add system. You could all start by arguing over what the weakness of the old system are. Hate to be the party pooper, but I thought you needed a little direction, after reading endless emails about nothing *laughs* -Mou P.S. That T-shirt idea sounds good, I was thinking something simple for it. Slap that www.footbag.org graphic (fww-block-logo.gif) on the breast and then across the shoulders and say something witty like "Kick a bag and you'll never kick another sac -Reformed feminist" or "Kick till you die" make a shit load of them and waabom, T-shirts glalore, probably look good, cheap to design/make. Unless some one wants to make a rock'n graphic for the back of the shirt, But I'd shell out bucks for my suggestion[just some lettering] just as quick (baised?) Moukorfos@geocities.com ICQ #2467105 | Welcome Transmition: | To "Normal is the average of all weirdness" | The End Transmition. |:> | Jungle. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 06:10:55 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA14434 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 06:10:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Josh Childs Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12558; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:13:41 -0700 Received: from Nageylum@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zXJSa13741 (3863); Thu, 5 Aug 1999 01:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2cee1111.24da775a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 01:12:58 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? To: brat@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 8/4/99 2:13:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brat@footbag.org writes: << For a definition of "thankless job", see "Worlds", "website", "results", "money", and "organization". Cross-reference "burn-out" and "taken for granted". :-) >> you should take on a lacky there steve, some one that you can make do all the work for ya . . . you'll realize how fun it is to be on the giving end . . . any who . . . i was just looking for some advice on paradox double leg overs, i hit them here and there but i was kinda hoping ot learn a neat-o trick for them. maybe like a secret hop or so . . . any help you be helpfull, funny how that works. . . Josh Childs From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 17:11:34 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15052 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:11:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f99.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.99]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA21049 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 06:46:32 -0700 Received: (qmail 27203 invoked by uid 0); 5 Aug 1999 13:46:01 -0000 Message-ID: <19990805134601.27202.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 06:46:01 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.62] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New adds system Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 08:46:01 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Mou Korfos Give it a decade and with hard work from people like Steve >it >will get there. The rest of you could drop the bag one anda while >and chip >in too. Hey. You are on this list also. What is stopping you?? Ian D. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 17:12:50 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15062 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:12:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Cam Meyer Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21329 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 07:30:36 -0700 Received: from CMDrummer2@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zTJWa13741 (4265) for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <91c2aac.24daf9de@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:29:50 EDT Subject: [freestyle] anyone live near kansas city mo? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey, my name is Cam Meyer, and i don't know anyone in my area who hacks. I am a begginer and of course need help, and if any of u live near Kansas City Missouri, hey let's hook up and maybe u could skool me. hope to get some responses thanx Cam Meyer From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 17:13:11 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15072 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:13:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21351 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 07:32:03 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA05948 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:32:02 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? Message-Id: <000000061943016708377@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 09:32:57 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Wed, Aug 4, 1999, 5:04:30 PM US CST Ian Dubman wrote: >Dude, killer idea. That would nice--what do ya say Steve? Hell, what does >everyone say? As Steve says, it is OUR site--he just does all the work. And Ian and I have the connections - we can get shirts done on the cheap. The owner of a screen printing company owes me a 'life debt' for writing a database for him. There's a good chance I can even have a small run of shirts done on a purely prospective basis - we wouldn't have to pay for them until we sell them. I can have my buddy do some artwork and whatnot - or you all could submit artwork! From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 18:58:31 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA15245 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 18:58:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f7.hotmail.com [216.32.181.7]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA24590 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:35:42 -0700 Received: (qmail 61280 invoked by uid 0); 5 Aug 1999 17:35:12 -0000 Message-ID: <19990805173512.61279.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.167.114.185 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 10:35:12 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.167.114.185] From: "Ryan Britt" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Sultans of Shred? Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 10:35:12 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi everbody. I just had a quick question. Can anyone tell me how I can get a copy of "Sultans of Shred"? The only company I know that carries footbag videos is the WFA, and they don't have it. - Ryan Britt From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 20:00:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA15308 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:00:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Message-ID: <19990805182509.14567.rocketmail@web216.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.108.197.65] by web216.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 11:25:09 PDT Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:25:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Cory Current Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Howdy all, Steve wrote: > >You just can't imagine how burnt out I am. yeah, when I'm feelin' all burnt out, I usually lay off the beer, women, and drugs for a while. It tends to help. Dubman wrote: > You could > always make Cory Current do > it; I hear he is getting lazy these days. Watch it, Dubman!!! I'll be forced to come back down there and open up the can'O'Whoop-Ass!!! Actually, I didn't see any of that spanking that Fogle was talking about, either. And I even sent in a piece of hate-mail. Man, I was robbed!! Fogle wrote: > Giving him a hand would be nice, but few things > would say "We love you Steve" > like a case of Guiness. mmmmmm....Guiness the quickest way to a man's heart! mmmmmm....Guiness....argrgargargargrgrga.... Jane Jones wrote: > www.footbag.org is pretty much what we holler out to > anyone walking by checking us out already I thought it was www.hotsex.com that you yell. Oh, wait...that's Steve's *other* website. My bad. Jane kept on writin', > A BIG thanks to Steve Goldberg for www.footbag.org > t-shirts. D'oh! that's how rumors get started ;-) he likes it when you call him, "Sugar Daddy". I think it's his codename on the *other* site. Mou wrote: > Unless some one wants > to make a rock'n graphic > for the back of the shirt yeah, but then you have this big battle over whether it's a freestyle graphic or net graphic. (Oh, Boy, I just opened myself up for a slew of hatemail, especially since this IS the 'style list) Better yet, let's just put a big graphic of Steve on it. they'd sell like hotcakes. (I got this great footage of Steve bustin' out some NWA, then doin' some nice break-dancin' moves. I'll bet we could get a great still from it.) Hmmmm, maybe I could get Derric Scalf to put a short video of that on the Dallas page?? Imagine the fun! I'm laughin' pretty hard just thinkin' about it. Sorry if I offended anyone. later. === Cory Current------------------------------------------------ Kickers Quarterly Journalist http://www.schwafootbag.com ------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 21:45:57 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15417 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:45:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27811 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:18:59 -0700 Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (root@rac9.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.149]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04763 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:18:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA28243 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:18:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28229 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908052018.QAA28229@rac9.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] tshirts for the web site Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey all just wanted to say east coast championships t-shirts this year had www.footbag.org in huge letters across the bottom of the sponsors graphic ( the one with Steve Goldberg spiking ). my suggestion is for all tournament directors to do the same. the last thing steve needs is more work, and the next to last thing is probably more ideas. Steve- it sounds like you have a ton of volunteers to help out. make us work if you can find the time to figure out how, cool? (: l8r vince From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 21:45:59 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15422 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:45:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from edtnps05.telusplanet.net (edtnps05.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.105]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28046 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:21:15 -0700 Received: from gdprpx03-port-23.agt.net ([161.184.232.162]:1403 "HELO towerpowerii") by smtp2.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <21067-28032>; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:21:56 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990805141811.008128b0@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: moukorfos@mail.geocities.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 14:18:11 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Mou Korfos Subject: Re: [freestyle] New adds system In-Reply-To: <19990805134601.27202.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Hey. You are on this list also. What is stopping you?? >Ian D. Try taking a dual major in an engineering program, living in geogrphical isolation and being utterly broke. You got my two bits! hehehe Hypocritical or not! -Mou Moukorfos@geocities.com ICQ #2467105 | Welcome Transmition: | To "Normal is the average of all weirdness" | The End Transmition. |:> | Jungle. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 21:46:17 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15437 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:46:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28472 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:38:15 -0700 Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (root@rac9.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.149]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24140 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:38:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA00940 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00935 for freestyle@footbag.org; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908052038.QAA00935@rac9.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] worlds judging system Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey i'll try again. if the worlds judging system could be changed to be run different next year, what would you change? the idea that it cannot be changed seems entirely bogus. why not? because it hasnt been done? because the freestylers have to know about it? it seems all the freestylers stay very informed to me. i'll try again on a second aspect- DanK- if you could have freestyle be judged any way you like without actually having to do any work to make it happen, how would you orchestrate the judging system? guess i could pull it out of the archives... hoping to hear tons of words- l8r vince From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 21:46:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15447 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:46:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28357 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:29:49 -0700 Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (root@rac9.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.149]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05144; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:29:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA29312; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29302; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908052029.QAA29302@rac9.wam.umd.edu> To: SuperOwen@aol.com, djsoyboy@excite.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Pittsburgh Shred ( hey owen! ) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i'd be into shredding in Pittsburgh, and I'm pretty sure i can guarantee attendance of SoyBoy Neil Payne, and other DC area freestylers. Let me know if you need any help organizing, or planning such an event, and try to let me know at least two weeks in advance otherwise. Thanks- Vince Bradley From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 21:48:58 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15462 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:48:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29327 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:54:53 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zQZBa13743 (4012) for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:54:03 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Stomping To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org When you add a stomp to a trick, such as, stomping guay or stomping ATW does that add an add? One more question, toe> same in> same inside is a guay. What's toe> same out>same outside? Owen Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 22:27:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15593 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 22:27:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (mail.callplus.co.nz [202.27.103.146]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29695 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:07:16 -0700 Received: by INETSRV with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:06:03 +1200 Message-ID: <8186832B88B9D211959E002035F378232C6789@INETSRV> From: Adrian Dick To: "'Owen Parrish'" , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] Stomping Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:06:01 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Stomping doesnt get any bonus adds (although it probably deserves 1/2 an add) - it is more for style reasons.... toe same out same outside?? hmm, I propose we call it gual From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 22:34:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15627 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 22:34:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29960 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:36:21 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 2CKIa02415 (4012); Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:17:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <22d65003.24db5986@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:17:58 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pittsburgh Shred ( hey owen! ) To: rvbpaco@wam.umd.edu, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org For those of you interested in a Pittsburgh shred, how does over Christmas break sound? WOuld that interfere with another shred, I seem to remember hearing about a Christmas jam last year. E-mail me with some open dates, I'll see what I can do. If it is around Christmas, I might be able to get the gym at my church. Owen "Pumped Up" Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 5 22:41:30 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15664 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 22:41:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f109.hotmail.com [209.185.131.172]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA30130 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:42:27 -0700 Received: (qmail 40430 invoked by uid 0); 5 Aug 1999 21:41:56 -0000 Message-ID: <19990805214156.40429.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 139.67.16.36 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 14:41:55 PDT X-Originating-IP: [139.67.16.36] From: "Frank Gutowski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pittsburgh Shred ( hey owen! ) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 14:41:55 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Owen, There would be a chance that I could make it out to Pittsburgh also - all my family lives out there. Keep us updated. Frank Gutowski From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 6 04:17:56 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA16161 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 04:17:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (root@diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03877 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:54:43 -0700 Received: from default (madmax-90.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.90]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA21987 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990805195429.007dce60@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 19:54:29 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Tu Vu Subject: [freestyle] YES! It's finally here! 1999 WORLDS ROUTINES Video Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello everyone, it's the time once again that we announce the release of the annual worlds routine tape from VU Brothers Production: 1999 Worlds Routine Highlights it's 2, count'em 2 hours of the best routines from this years worlds held in Chicago, Illinois. this footage contains routines from all 3 rounds so you can judge for yourself the incredible action of all this years competiton. you'll see dropless routines from Peter Irish and Rippin' Rick Reese plus other Amazing Routines from Scott Davidson, Ryan Mulroney, Eric Wulff and so many more!!!!!!! so all you who missed it, or just want to relive it, here's your chance. if anyone is intreseted in obtaining a copy or have any questions, you can contact Tuan Vu at: tuan369@earthlink.net 4535 California Street San Francisco, CA 94118 (415) 668-8146 or Tu Vu at: tuhuge@sfsu.edu (415) 831-5859 also if people are intrested in seeing a net tape(minimal editing) or shred tape, you got to let us know so we will get off are butts and make them! thanks a million! VU Brothers From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 6 05:47:14 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA16601 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 05:47:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from baygate.bayarea.net (baygate.bayarea.net [204.71.212.2]) by postman.bayarea.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA79658 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:48:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jboy@bayarea.net) Received: from gram (205-219-66-194.bayarea.net [205.219.66.194]) by baygate.bayarea.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA29145 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004201bedfc7$20f585c0$c242dbcd@gram> Reply-To: "Jboy Gran" From: "Jboy Gran" To: References: <199908042329.QAA12879@email.footbag.org> Subject: [freestyle] Re: ADDs Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:49:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >My question is : would a left foot clipper set from right foot clipper >be worth one more than set from left toe which would be one more than >set either from right toe or left clipper? Good question. I had a thought about this the other day. What if we limit it to one point per pass (across the body) unless there is at least one topside dex in that pass. The only moves this would affect would be this one (clipper to clipper), and spinning moves like spinnig osis and spinning clipper. Thoughts? Also, whoever said that blur and blizzard are the same difficulty is right in my opinion. I think there is an easy fix for this mistake in my rules for the system. Instead of excluding 'complimentary dexes' from the bonus point, the move should get the point only if the second dex (in a two-legged double dex move) is a *full* dex, meaning that leg must go under and then over in succession. The only moves this would affect would be blizzard (and variations) and, some I'm not sure about as I've never hit them, eggbeater, leggbeater, etc. Does this sound good, or do eggbeater and the like deserve the extra add? (Remember, atom smasher would still get the add). Jboy From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 6 16:50:48 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17200 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:50:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from majordomo2.umd.edu (majordomo2.umd.edu [128.8.10.7]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA17353 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 06:21:59 -0700 Received: from rac8.wam.umd.edu (root@rac8.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.148]) by majordomo2.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17067; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:21:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac8.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac8.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA10036; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:21:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac8.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10013; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908061321.JAA10013@rac8.wam.umd.edu> To: SuperOwen@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pittsburgh Shred ( hey owen! ) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Traditoinally the DC area has held a Christmas Jam between Christmas and New Years Eve at the Post Office Pavillion in Washington DC. We are planning on holding it again this year. Anyone who is interested, please contact me or Neil Payne ( djsoyboy@excite.com) >end of plug< -vince From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 6 16:50:53 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17205 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:50:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA17100 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 06:01:32 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA08313; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:01:28 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:01:28 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Owen Parrish cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Stomping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > When you add a stomp to a trick, such as, stomping guay or stomping ATW does > that add an add? no > One more question, toe> same in> same inside is a guay. actaully, guay is toe > OP in > same insde. It is like an in-out legover ending on an inside delay. > What's toe> same out>same outside? I don't think this move has a name. It is just an out-in around the world ending on an outside delay. Later From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 6 16:51:07 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17220 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:51:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from postoffice2.direcpc.com (mail.direcpc.com [198.77.116.30]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA17265 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 06:16:09 -0700 Received: from hh1114112 ([206.71.114.112]) by postoffice2.direcpc.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-45425U50000L50000S0) with SMTP id AAA1193; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:17:11 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990806091435.00995a60@mail.direcpc.com> X-Sender: mavery@mail.direcpc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 09:18:22 -0700 To: "Jboy Gran" From: Matt Avery Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: ADDs Cc: freestyle@footbag.org In-Reply-To: <004201bedfc7$20f585c0$c242dbcd@gram> References: <199908042329.QAA12879@email.footbag.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Sup guys- Hopefully Im not the only one that is having problems evaluating moves with the DLS system. I hope that it will be appropriate for spur of the moment counting during competition, because it looks like most are in favor of DLS. I think it would help if Jboy wrote a tutorial like "Job's" for everyone to take a look at. BTW, what happens in order for this system to become final? Is the idea submitted to IFAB next year or what? Matt From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 6 16:51:31 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17231 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:51:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA17430 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 06:25:59 -0700 Received: from rac8.wam.umd.edu (root@rac8.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.148]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18072; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:25:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac8.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac8.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA10754; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac8.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10741; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908061325.JAA10741@rac8.wam.umd.edu> To: SuperOwen@aol.com, djsoyboy@excite.com, frankgut@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Pittsburgh Shred ( hey owen! ) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org well, in light of the esteemed presence of the great Gutowski (actually not much sarcasm here (: ) if popularity swings towards a christmass jam at Pittsburgh, DC could try another time for its jam. I would however consider this carefully- the Post Office Pavillion is a good site. Easily publicity, on a stage in what is essentially a mall. Okay, it could be better- bot probably not too easily for exposure. L8r - vince From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 6 18:19:14 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17586 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:19:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21035 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:21:45 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA06925 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 12:21:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: ADDs Message-Id: <000000068353016804960@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 12:22:40 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, Aug 6, 1999, 11:18:22 AM US CST Matt Avery wrote: >BTW, what happens in order for this system to become final? Is the idea >submitted to IFAB next year or what? He he, I wish it were that easy. Take the "Lead in Time" issue that Steve G. has been harping on for years. Virtually everyone on this list is OK with that. All the people who competed in freestyle at worlds were for it. The idea was shot down by people who are not on this list and did not compete in freestyle this year. We salvaged a compromise change that allows lead in time - but only as long as the kicker is reasonably motionless. So we could all hammer out the details on a really great system (oxymoron alert), but there's no way we can guarantee it will become an IFC rule unless we have about 10 more of us freestylers on the committee. Or get Kenny's stamp of approval. I'm on the committee, and feel that the published rules have some importance. Then again, if the IFC were unable to rubber-stamp something that the freestyle community had arrived at some reasonable degree of concensus on, I think the freestyle community would need to move ahead without the IFC. (NOTE: No one is claiming that the freestyle community has arrived at 'some reasonable degree of consensus' on anything yet) ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 6 18:47:05 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17615 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:47:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f252.hotmail.com [207.82.251.143]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA21804 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:52:19 -0700 Received: (qmail 76404 invoked by uid 0); 6 Aug 1999 17:51:48 -0000 Message-ID: <19990806175148.76403.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.161.81 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 06 Aug 1999 10:51:48 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.161.81] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] worlds judging system Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 10:51:48 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org << i'll try again on a second aspect- DanK- if you could have freestyle be judged any way you like without actually having to do any work to make it happen, how would you orchestrate the judging system? guess i could pull it out of the archives... >> Let's see what I can pull out of my ... "archives." - 5 or 7 judges for each pool - judges rank each routine based on difficulty, variety, and presentation - use the ranks to compute overall placements Ta Da! Judges using this system should be equipped with some kind of documentation. Nothing extravagant, just a few pages giving some definition to difficulty, variety, and presentation. This kind of stuff already exists, but it would need to be organized and updated. But what we would really need to rely on is experienced judges. And at Worlds at least, that is easily done. A more detailed description of this system was presented to IFAB in 1998 and passed. It is an option for any tournament director, but not used at Worlds yet. It should be in the IFAB (now IFC) rulebook soon. Over the last couple of years, I've thought a lot about this subject. I'd prefer to have a more objective syle of judging, but I don't think it's possible. Think about this, a top freestyle routine can have as many as 100 different moves! What other performance sport can say that? We kick ass! The only problem with that fact is that it makes it hard to judge. It's an interesting relationship, the more complex the routines become, the less complex the judging system has to be. Hypothetically, if routines were made up of a single move, we could have to most complex judging system the world has ever seen, dissecting every little aspect of motion, balance, bag placement, etc. We could have video cameras at every angle with video replay up the wazoo. But routines are becoming more and more complex every year, and we as both freestylers and jugdes should adapt. Now for the 45 second shred contest, there is more of an opportunity for analysis. But I don't think the format used at Worlds this year is "good to go." It literally takes hours to review the tape and assign scores. I'd like for someone to come up with a less complex system cause I think this event rocks. Any suggestions? Thank for listeni ... er, uh, reading. DanK From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 6 19:54:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17667 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 19:54:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22463 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:37:36 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA18789 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:37:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] worlds judging system Message-Id: <000000068703016809511@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 13:38:31 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Fri, Aug 6, 1999, 12:51:48 PM US CST Daniel Kramer wrote: >A more detailed description of this system was presented to IFAB in 1998 and >passed. It is an option for any tournament director, but not used at Worlds >yet. It should be in the IFAB (now IFC) rulebook soon. Huh? I thought there was nothing passed in 1998 for lack of quorum. There has been a "Ranked Component" judging system in the rulebooks for several years now. All other tourneys besides Worlds and WR use some variation of it. If Steve G. ever refused to run freestyle for the 'Big 2', those left in charge would probably fall to the ranking system after pooping a few bricks. That being said, even if ALL tournaments used simple ranking for results, the freestyle community still needs to come to terms with the difficulty assessment. ______________________________________ Derrick From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 6 20:57:29 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA17733 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 20:57:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from footbag (kg47u2hel.dial.kolumbus.fi [193.229.46.47]) by mail2.kolumbus.fi (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA16558 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 22:46:34 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <009101bee043$f52dc240$b12ae5c1@footbag.pp.kolumbus.fi> From: "Justin Sexton" To: Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #703 Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 22:43:28 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >For those of you interested in a Pittsburgh shred, how does over Christmas >break sound? WOuld that interfere with another shred, I seem to remember >hearing about a Christmas jam last year. E-mail me with some open dates, >I'll see what I can do. If it is around Christmas, I might be able to get >the gym at my church. I will be travelling to New York, Virginia Beach & Washington D.C. December 20th - January 2nd. I would definetely be interested in any tournament or shred on East Coast. Justin Sexton From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 6 22:53:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA17793 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 22:53:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from m6.jersey.juno.com (m6.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26274 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 14:59:34 -0700 Received: (from jmlane2@juno.com) by m6.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EHDCN9RG; Fri, 06 Aug 1999 17:58:52 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 03:59:19 -0700 Subject: [freestyle] consecutive considered freestyle? Message-ID: <19990806.035921.-568891.0.jmlane2@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,5-8 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Jason M Lane Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I was just wondering if consecutive hacking is all in its own, or if it is considered freestyle. I'm trying to get good at freestyle and love the look of it, but can't even hit a clipper delay(I've only been hacking for a few months). I am pretty good at consecs though. The most i've gotten is around 70. catch ya' later, Jason From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 6 22:59:19 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA17813 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 22:59:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26549 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 15:11:11 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zPOEa22963 (4537) for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:10:31 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Funtastik To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Who's going to Funtastik? I'm gonna be able to go on Sunday the 6th. It would be a great place to make plans for a Pittsburgh shred. Owen Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 7 03:49:40 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA18038 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 03:49:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ego.mind.net (IDENT:mail@ego.mind.net [206.99.66.9]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29727 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:45:49 -0700 Received: from 206.151.159.183 (ip251.mind.net [206.151.159.183]) by ego.mind.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA12157 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:45:46 -0700 Message-ID: <37AB2D01.3510@mind.net> Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 18:44:21 +0000 From: Forest Schrodt X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] worlds judging system References: <19990806175148.76403.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org DanK wrote about his ideal judging system: > - 5 or 7 judges for each pool > - judges rank each routine based on difficulty, variety, and >presentation > - use the ranks to compute overall placements I like this ranked judging system except I think there should be two other things considered in a routine. - number of tricks performed. - the number of drops. This information will help judges make a none biased assesment and will add a little more weight to the technical aspect of the routine. And that is all I have to say about that. I am now going to go out and sart me a shrimpin business where I can catch some shrimp. You know there are a number of ways one can cook shrimp. Why you can steam em, roast em in garlic, barbque shrimp, shrimp scampy, shrimp gumbo, cajune shrimp, pan fried shrimp, shrimp with fried rice, shrimp ala carte, flamin shrimp, shrimp with stiffies, mushrooms stuffed with shrimp, shishkabobitt shrimp, shrimp dipped in choclate, Shrimp marinaded in teriyaki sauce, shrimp eaten while standing on your head, ect.... Forest From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 7 03:50:37 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA18057 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 03:50:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Nick Allgeier Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29891 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:49:02 -0700 Received: from NikeekiN@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zDYBa06266 (4196) for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 21:47:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 21:47:58 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Move name To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey... does anyone know the name of this move.....and can you all hit it?? toe>op in>op clip thanks alot NICK A. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 7 04:13:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA18256 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 04:13:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f67.hotmail.com [209.185.131.130]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA31103 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 20:21:49 -0700 Received: (qmail 24140 invoked by uid 0); 7 Aug 1999 03:21:18 -0000 Message-ID: <19990807032118.24139.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.251.32.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 06 Aug 1999 20:21:18 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.251.32.172] From: "alex ibardaloza" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move name Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 03:21:18 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: Nick Allgeier >Hey... >does anyone know the name of this move.....and can you all hit it?? >toe>op in>op clip >thanks alot >NICK A. W'sup, Toe set drifter? Hmmmmm... I think I have to brush up on my notation, or learn it for that matter! :P Later, ZEKE _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 7 06:17:30 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA18326 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 06:17:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f102.hotmail.com [209.185.131.165]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA31853 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 21:32:20 -0700 Received: (qmail 37853 invoked by uid 0); 7 Aug 1999 04:31:35 -0000 Message-ID: <19990807043135.37852.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.31.5.26 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 06 Aug 1999 21:31:34 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.31.5.26] From: "Alex Durant" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] phat shit at worlds Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 21:31:34 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Scott Davison's 28 paradox whirls in a row Ryan Mulroney's 29 four add moves in a row Tuan Vu's shooting torque Red Husted's blurriest-scorpion tail-mobius combo Dave Holton's 15 unique four add moves in a row Peter Irish's blurry whirling swirl Big Add Chad's blurry whirl-whirling swirl-blurry whirl combo Kenny shultes freestyling (hard) with no shoes Rick Reese's finals routine Scott Davison's finals routine Ryan Mulroney's routine Matt Churney (Of course there was lots more, and these are in no particular order) From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 7 19:04:10 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA18890 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:04:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03198 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 02:20:41 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990807092037.NAHA8716.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 02:20:37 -0700 Message-ID: <37ABFBE0.49415D28@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 04:26:56 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nick Allgeier CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move name References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Nick Allgeier wrote: > > Hey... > does anyone know the name of this move.....and can you all hit it?? > toe>op in>op clip That is a toe set whirl. Personally, I have trouble with the move, but Ethan Kline (sp?) can hit this easily on both sides. It feels a lot like a pdx whirl - hence my problems. Try toe set drifter (toe > op in > same clip). That is another good toe set move that you don't see enough. Or, toe set torque (toe > op in > op osis). -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 7 19:04:13 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA18895 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:04:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f187.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.187]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA07981 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 06:45:57 -0700 Received: (qmail 12185 invoked by uid 0); 7 Aug 1999 13:45:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19990807134539.12184.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.69.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 07 Aug 1999 06:45:39 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.69.2] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] consecutive considered freestyle? Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 06:45:39 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jason M Lane wrote: >Hey, > I was just wondering if consecutive hacking is all in its own, or if it is >considered freestyle. I'm trying to get good at freestyle and love the look >of it, but can't even hit a clipper delay(I've only been hacking for a few >months). I would personally say consecutives is different than freestyle, and I mean consecutives of any kind, even consecutive tricks. But that isn¥t to say just kicking can¥t be freestyle, what most of the people on this list play (myself included) is a fairly small deffenition of all that freestyle can intale. It¥s possible to freestyle kick, dance style, and god knows what ever else you¥ll never see at worlds or a schred video. I also might note, and no ofence intended, that I personally find kicking consecutives is about as exciting as watching grass grow. Work on those clippers, you¥ll never turn back :) -Andrew From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 7 19:03:41 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA18885 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:03:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03369 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 02:51:17 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA14821; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 04:51:11 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 04:51:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: alex ibardaloza cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move name In-Reply-To: <19990807032118.24139.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > >Hey... > >does anyone know the name of this move.....and can you all hit it?? > >toe>op in>op clip > >thanks alot > >NICK A. > > W'sup, > Toe set drifter? Hmmmmm... I think I have to brush up on my notation, or > learn it for that matter! :P toe set drifer it toe > op in > SAME clip. toe > op in > op clip is a toe whirl. It's a good 3 adds. later From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 7 21:02:50 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19066 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 21:02:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from postoffice2.direcpc.com (mail.direcpc.com [198.77.116.30]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11494 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 11:59:12 -0700 Received: from hh1114112 ([206.71.114.112]) by postoffice2.direcpc.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-45425U50000L50000S0) with SMTP id AAA9885; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:00:12 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990807150043.009988d0@mail.direcpc.com> X-Sender: mavery@mail.direcpc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 15:01:23 -0700 To: "alex ibardaloza" , freestyle@footbag.org From: Matt Avery Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move name In-Reply-To: <19990807032118.24139.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org toe set whirl. toe set drifter would be >toe>op in> same slip Matt >W'sup, >Toe set drifter? Hmmmmm... I think I have to brush up on my notation, or >learn it for that matter! :P >Later, >ZEKE > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sun Aug 8 04:21:43 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA19532 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 04:21:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f19.hotmail.com [216.32.181.19]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA12913 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 14:15:04 -0700 Received: (qmail 71414 invoked by uid 0); 7 Aug 1999 21:14:34 -0000 Message-ID: <19990807211434.71413.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.167.113.145 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 07 Aug 1999 14:14:34 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.167.113.145] From: "Ryan Britt" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move name Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 14:14:34 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>does anyone know the name of this move.....and can you all hit it?? >>toe>op in>op clip >Toe set drifter? Hey there. Um no I don't think it's a toe set drifter, that would be toe > op in > same clip. It's not on the footbag.org movelist, but the closest thing I could find was toe whirr TOE > OP IN > OP IN > OP CLIP. Toe whirr is like what you described except it has two dexterities instead of the one. I guess we could call that move a single toe whirr or something. Hope that helps. - Ryan Britt From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sun Aug 8 04:28:03 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA19646 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 04:28:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f202.hotmail.com [216.32.181.202]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA13297 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 14:48:23 -0700 Received: (qmail 34527 invoked by uid 0); 7 Aug 1999 21:47:53 -0000 Message-ID: <19990807214753.34526.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.167.115.80 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 07 Aug 1999 14:47:52 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.167.115.80] From: "Ryan Britt" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move name Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 14:47:52 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Oops, I just remembered the name of that move (toe > same in > op clip ). It can be thought of as a pixie clipper stall. - Ryan Britt From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sun Aug 8 05:54:42 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA19716 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 05:54:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-oe9.hotmail.com [216.32.180.113]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA17227 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 21:55:03 -0700 Received: (qmail 30921 invoked by uid 65534); 8 Aug 1999 04:54:32 -0000 Message-ID: <19990808045432.30920.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [205.151.225.201] From: "Danny Cardonne" To: "Ryan Britt" , References: <19990807211434.71413.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] move name Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 00:51:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Hey there. Um no I don't think it's a toe set drifter, that would be toe > > op in > same clip. It's not on the footbag.org movelist, but the closest > thing I could find was toe whirr TOE > OP IN > OP IN > OP CLIP. Toe whirr I think that toe > op in > op in > op clip is a toe set blurry drifter... toe set whirr will be toe > op in > same in > op clip Danny From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sun Aug 8 18:29:49 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20278 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 18:29:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17508 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 22:41:43 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA01551; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 00:41:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 00:41:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Danny Cardonne cc: Ryan Britt , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move name In-Reply-To: <19990808045432.30920.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > > Hey there. Um no I don't think it's a toe set drifter, that would be toe > > > > op in > same clip. It's not on the footbag.org movelist, but the closest > > thing I could find was toe whirr TOE > OP IN > OP IN > OP CLIP. Toe whirr > > I think that toe > op in > op in > op clip is a toe set blurry drifter... No. toe > op in > op in > op clip is a miraging whirl. similar to a blurry whirl but with a miraging set instead of a stepping step. a miraging drifter is toe > op in > op in > SAME clip. You guys should brush up on your notation. It really isn't difficult at all but I see people misidentifing moves all the time. > toe set whirr will be toe > op in > same in > op clip correct later From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 9 06:15:07 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA20947 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 06:15:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f245.hotmail.com [207.82.251.136]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA13654 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 20:37:33 -0700 Received: (qmail 36923 invoked by uid 0); 9 Aug 1999 03:36:58 -0000 Message-ID: <19990809033658.36922.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.188.200.58 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 08 Aug 1999 20:36:58 PDT X-Originating-IP: [205.188.200.58] From: "troy wheeler" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Categorical scores?? Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 20:36:58 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hola, jane wrote on Aug 4: -Or maybe we could have a contest for coolest -design and the winner gets a free shirt or footbag or something. I go to the art institute of pittsburgh, maybe i can scrounge up a contest between the art students, with recognition as a prize, (for art students trying to make it the industry, having some professional work done is a huge plus) that way it is a free design. feedback? troy From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 9 18:03:19 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21477 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:03:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f253.hotmail.com [207.82.251.144]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA31949 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:00:47 -0700 Received: (qmail 69943 invoked by uid 0); 9 Aug 1999 15:00:16 -0000 Message-ID: <19990809150016.69942.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.190.1 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Aug 1999 08:00:16 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.190.1] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] worlds judging system Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 08:00:16 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org << I like this ranked judging system except I think there should be two other things considered in a routine. - number of tricks performed. - the number of drops. Forest >> Absolutely. Anything to help the judges. You could have one extra judge to report to the other judges on tricks, drops, time of routine, perhaps slops. DK From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 9 18:03:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21472 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:03:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f38.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.38]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA02731 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:59:43 -0700 Received: (qmail 75599 invoked by uid 0); 9 Aug 1999 16:59:04 -0000 Message-ID: <19990809165904.75598.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.69 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Aug 1999 09:59:04 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.69] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Move name Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 11:59:04 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >>does anyone know the name of this move.....and can you all hit it?? >>toe>op in>op clip >Toe set drifter? Actually, I think it would be toe set whirl... Ian From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 9 18:03:42 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21487 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:03:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f92.hotmail.com [207.82.250.198]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA31779 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 07:54:05 -0700 Received: (qmail 3466 invoked by uid 0); 9 Aug 1999 14:53:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19990809145320.3465.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.190.1 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Aug 1999 07:53:20 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.190.1] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] worlds judging system Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 07:53:20 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I wrote: << A more detailed description of this system was presented to IFAB in 1998 and passed. It is an option for any tournament director, but not used at Worlds yet. It should be in the IFAB (now IFC) rulebook soon. >> Derrick wrote: << Huh? I thought there was nothing passed in 1998 for lack of quorum. >> If not, I'll re-propose it next year. Steve, do you have any insight on this? << That being said, even if ALL tournaments used simple ranking for results, thefreestyle community still needs to come to terms with the difficulty assessment. >> I agree. But after all being said and done, IMHO, the best tools will be the footbagging experience of the judges. Just to try to hit home the point a bit better, here are a few of the judges we could've had for this past Worlds finals. Remember, we need only 7: Kenny Shults, Derrick Fogle, Steve Kremer, Josh Casey, Steve Goldberg, Vince Bradley, James Roberts, Hu-Mungis, Allan Petersen, Peter Shunny, and others. On this list you have over a century of footbag experience. I would be satisfied to let them come to their own assessments of difficulty. To change the subject a bit... Just to allay anyone's fears about a ranking system, extreme biases are well accounted for. Let's say that...Al Coholic performs the greatest routine ever in the finals, but 3 of the judges hate him and rank him last. But as long as the other 4 rank him first, he will win. The biases of 1 or 2 or even 3 judges in this case, should not affect the outcome adversely. DK From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 9 18:11:06 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21524 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:11:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21521 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:11:05 -0700 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03557 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:24:10 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.183] (dhcp-206-67-46-183.atext.com [206.67.46.183]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06372 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:24:03 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990809145320.3465.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <19990809145320.3465.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:27:01 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] worlds judging system Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 7:53 AM -0700 8/9/99, Daniel Kramer wrote: ><< Huh? I thought there was nothing passed in 1998 for lack of quorum. > >If not, I'll re-propose it next year. Steve, do you have any insight on this? We didn't have a quorum at last year's Worlds. I never achieved e-mail quorum, either. And slack as I am, I never went around trying to get one. So nothing happened as a result of last year's meeting. >I agree. But after all being said and done, IMHO, the best tools >will be the footbagging experience of the judges. Yes but even then, we still need a concept of what we want (as a sport) the judges to look for. We could be looking for highly technical routines, or we could be looking for the best combination of presentation and technical skill. Just "simple ranking" doesn't give the judges many guidelines or tools at all. Steve From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 9 19:10:27 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA21598 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:10:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04796 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:06:21 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA01588 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:06:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] worlds judging system Message-Id: <000000075153017066834@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 13:07:14 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, Aug 9, 1999, 9:53:20 AM US CST Daniel Kramer wrote: >long as the other 4 rank him first, he will win. >The biases of 1 or 2 or even 3 judges in this case, should not affect the Throwing out high/low scores sounds like a great idea, but there are ramifications. It 'dumbs down' the results and marginalizes legitimate dissenters. ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 9 19:13:44 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA21608 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:13:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21605 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:13:43 -0700 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05381 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:26:47 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.183] (dhcp-206-67-46-183.atext.com [206.67.46.183]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11035 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:26:42 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000000075153017066834@mlerf.org> References: <000000075153017066834@mlerf.org> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:29:40 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] worlds judging system Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:07 PM -0500 8/9/99, Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: >Throwing out high/low scores sounds like a great idea, but there are >ramifications. It 'dumbs down' the results and marginalizes legitimate >dissenters. I find this thread amusing. My guess is that after we go 'round and 'round on how to make a "pure ranking" judging system really work, we'll end up with one of the two official systems already on the books. :-) Steve From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 10 18:26:50 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22733 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:26:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.208.133.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06763 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:19:30 -0700 Received: from [204.148.83.33] (d33.mvn2.interaccess.com [204.148.83.33]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA02229 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:19:28 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 23:32:54 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! I've come across some possible new moves and I wanted to run them past you all to see if they already have names, and if you know who is already hitting them... and I have some questions too... Is this a new move? Probably not, if not then does it have a street name? Blurry Symposium Drifter (R clipper set straight up about mid chest level with an instant "pogo" style left leg symposium followed by paradox drifter with R leg) I think it is 6 adds, not that it matters to anyone anymore. I hit it a couple of times the other day on my right side, now I am hitting it better on my left. Hey all you "frontsiders" is this a new move? Blur with an extra symposium mirage at the end... (i'm very close to this, although the last symposium dex kind of cuts across the hard side and is kindof fluffy, videotape will reveal the truth.) Also close to: Frontside symposium blur with an additional symposium mirage at the end (i'm close to this one). This is basically a pogo blur with an extra symposium mirage at the end, and it maintains its symposiumness because the set foot never touches the ground. Description: Do a blur and add a symposium mirage at the end with the first dex leg. If I were to take a stab at jobs notation, it might look like this: Clip > Op IO > Op IO > Op Symp IO > Op toe. Also, what is this? Toe set- reverse miraging reverse mirage? What is the name of this? I believe that toe set-reverse miraging mirage is Atom Smasher, so this one must have a name... I just feel out of the loop on front side moves. I am very close to this one. How about this? Symposium Gimping Symposium Whirl (left clipper right leg symposium dex left knee kick to right leg dex left clipper delay symposium whirl) Fun stuff. That's it for now! See ya! Scott D. Enlightener From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 10 18:26:57 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22747 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:26:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f161.hotmail.com [207.82.251.47]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA07044 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:26:16 -0700 Received: (qmail 18004 invoked by uid 0); 9 Aug 1999 19:25:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19990809192544.18003.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.190.1 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Aug 1999 12:25:44 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.190.1] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] worlds judging system Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 12:25:44 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org << Derrick Fogle wrote: Throwing out high/low scores sounds like a great idea, but there are ramifications. It 'dumbs down' the results and marginalizes legitimate dissenters. >> First of all, it's not quite dropping high/low scores. It's basically majority rules. If the judges have a majority for a player for a certain rank, then that player gets that rank. You say it marginalizes legit dissent, I say it prevents adverse effects from personal bias. Both are possible, but the latter much more probable. If 6 judges think that a player finished first, and a 7th thinks he finished last, then to that 7th judge I say, "tough noogies." "Dumb down" is not how I'd describe it. DK From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 10 18:27:01 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22758 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:27:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.208.133.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06737 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:19:12 -0700 Received: from [204.148.83.33] (d33.mvn2.interaccess.com [204.148.83.33]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA02111 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:19:11 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:23:15 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: [freestyle] Womens Singles Freestyle finals at worlds... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! Did anyone notice that Carol didn't compete in pre-lims and did compete in finals... as top seed? That was no accident, but it almost didn't happen that way. Sam did the "way above honorable thing" to do, and she insisted that Carol be put into finals, and in the top seed position, and all the other women agreed. Carol was the current world champion at the time, and winning worlds without beating the current world champion might be perceived as a hollow victory, my hats off to Sam... who prevailed after all. So kudo's to Sam who did a big thing by getting Carol into finals, and to both Sam and Carol and all the women for their great performances! Footbag has the best people! That hasn't changed. Big honor! Keep shredding! See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 10 18:26:58 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22748 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:26:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.208.133.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06775 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:19:33 -0700 Received: from [204.148.83.33] (d33.mvn2.interaccess.com [204.148.83.33]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA02255 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:19:30 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 23:32:59 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: [freestyle] Comments on the recent freestyle hoopla... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Everyone! Sorry about the subject change, but I am at home and replying "off the cuff" from my memories of what I read in the last three days. >why go tripless? Brian McKenzie said: >a lot of us have certain moves that we can only hit off of something easy >like a butterfly or paradox mirage... I say that this is the ultimate challenge, to find another more difficult move that you can make into your primary set for these moves. By giving yourself a break and allowing butterfly/osis/Pmirage sets, you are simply wimping out on yourself... you owe yourself more. I usually start *strings* with a butterfly, but I am working on 4 add opening sets from kicks like: Kickadon (kick set paradon), kick set torque and kick set symposium whirl to name the obvious ones. The way the add system is set-up now, it makes some very difficult moves into "threes" but we all know they deserve more, we are just struggling with defining why they deserve more at this point. In all fairness, I am working on learning some of those difficult frontside 3's to round out my game and eventually they will be combined into even more difficult moves, I hope. You say we shouldn't rush to tripless, and I agree... most people going guiltless aren't ready for it, and not many people are ready to go tripless. Have you noticed that people rush to go guiltless, but they may not realize that the people they are trying to "catch up to" spent *years* going tiltless and then went guiltless. Rushing to the next level means you may have overlooked entire genre's of moves, thereby limiting your future game expansion. McKenzie went on to say: >the sport just isn't advanced enough to make triplessness look stylish and >smooth. I say, "what a cop-out." Brian, keep thinking like that and you'll start noticing people passing you like you are stopped on the side of the road. I ask that you rethunk that. Maybe you aren't ready to make it look smooth, but some of us in the sport are... correct me if I'm wrong. The great thing about this sport is the variety of possible moves! I have been at it over 15 years now and I am still learning/creating new moves and literally learning something new or doing a new combo *every day*. You can't say that about any other sport. Ethan has said it before, about infinite variety and the deep feeling of self esteem and accomplishment when you complete something new. I have to say, also, that going tripless has accelerated my game to include more variety and more fives and although the strings are shorter, they are fulfilling. Also, maybe shorter strings isn't so bad. When I am in a circle and there are four or five people, and all of them can do 25 or more guiltless contacts in a string, it can take a lot of time to get back around to me and it is sometimes hard to stay warm. If those players were doing tripless strings, the bag would make it around quicker, and in the same hours time, each player would get more turns (making larger circles more bearable from a "staying-warm" angle). Another thing that people haven't talked about lately is the concept of "pass backs", I notice that people just pick up the bag after a short turn or missed set and self-serve and do a string (sometimes they do it after a longer turn too, and sometimes several times when they are trying a single move). I remember when Kenny would just go and grab the bag from anyone who would do that, and that's what i feel like doing when I see it, but I don't. I think the next player should always be watching the previous and be aware when to pass-back, when it would be appropriate. Maybe that's old-skool, but I think there are a lot of people who agree with me on this. Ken S. said that da da curve is esentially a symposium ripwalk, and while it may seem wimpy when done tight and small, it looks totally different when the symposium butterfly is done "huge". And Ken, you are right, there are many stylish 3 add moves, and I encourage you to eventually go tripless and throw in those stylin' 3 add moves and I promise not to say anything, except likely, "great job." There is a concept called "honor" and it works both directions, if you are going tripless and you acknowledge that da da curve is wimpy, then it would be dishonorable of you to do a da da and expect it to fulfill your tripless string, and the other way around is true too, if you are going tripless and you feel like putting in an honorable three add move that you see as fulfilling the level of play that you set forth for yourself, then go for it, it is almost always complimentary, and as long as you are okay with it, then it is defendable. Maybe if you looked at tripless as more of a guide than an end-all-be-all rule, then you could see tripless more the way I see it. There are WAY more four add moves then there are three. And to address the question of whether I do tripless because it is harder or it looks better, I say both... I say tripless hasn't stifled my style, except for maybe a handful of moves that I can think of that I wish I learned that are three add moves, mostly frontside... AND I acknowledge the coolness of the three add moves in question. Tripless will push your game just like guiltless and tiltless did, just give it a chance. Two years ago, I was at a level that I thought tripless was unrealistic, but if you put the time in to learning a wide range of tripless moves and work on linking them together you will soon be pushing tripless and even "fiveless" strings. Jboy asked for discussion on topics like: should xbody delays (clippers) count the same as toe delays? I say emphatically NO. This would be a major mistake. It would change everything. I think we can incorporate the DLS concept into the MADDS calculation and build upon an existing system... definately the most palitable way to use DLS for me. On the subject of half spins vs. full spins, we may need to address that one with a similar analysis that the DLS uses and apply it to spins... like the players body has axis lines (horizontal) that extend directly through the belly button and go off forward and behind the player, the front is A and the back is B and the number of times the Horizontal A (HA) and the Horizontal B (HB) cross the footbag during the spin equates to the spin value? Hmmmm.... How about making knees and outsides into unusual surfaces? Talk about radical. They are unusual for freestylers to do. That would take care of the dragon people and give them the xtra add they deserve for that unnatural contortion (again, a biased statement). Sorry to babble, but this is a mix of about a weeks worth of pent-up emails that I wish I could have responded to sooner. See ya! Scott Davidson enlightener From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 10 18:26:53 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22738 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:26:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.208.133.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06787 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:19:37 -0700 Received: from [204.148.83.33] (d33.mvn2.interaccess.com [204.148.83.33]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA02295 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:19:35 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 23:35:58 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: [freestyle] "Slurry" - A new set concept and naming nomenclature... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! This is something I wanted to pursue at worlds this year, but I didn't get to shred as much as I would have liked... the one shred I looked forward to the most (Saturday night after freestyle) I couldn't even get warm (due in part to an accelerated level of celebration after finals, and in part to fatigue). I'm still feeling the spanking doled out by one Ryan Mulroney. The guy is a machine. My god, there must've been 15 cameras there filming, who is the first to offer shred video including that shred? My own naming and definition, does the motion I am about to describe have a name yet? Common elements of a "Slurry" set (I'm recycling the name slurry because this set is similar to a blurry, in that it can be combined with a variety of moves to make them more difficult) : When the set is from a cross-body inside... When the set leg immediately plants after the set... AND When the dex leg immediately does an in-out dexterity without planting... AND When the set leg performs a symposium dexterity....AND When that symposium dexterity is ALSO paradox... Then the move qualifies as "Slurry". I think this is important to name because it is very descriptive of the style in which certain moves can be performed... for instance: Moves that I do that involve Slurry sets are: Backside symposium blur (done slurry style) = Slurry Blur - 5 adds (immediately tells the listener/reader how this blur was performed, AND it implies Symposium (and paradox). There aren't too many 5 add moves that end on a toe, are there? Symposium Paradox Blurry Whirl (I saw Ryan, Peter and myself hitting this already) = Slurry Whirl (immediately tells the listener/reader how this whirl was performed, AND it implies symposium AND blurry). It can be applied to other moves that I can't think of right now. Must go sleep. So what do you think? See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 10 18:26:37 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22728 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:26:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.208.133.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06751 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:19:20 -0700 Received: from [204.148.83.33] (d33.mvn2.interaccess.com [204.148.83.33]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA02131 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:19:16 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 22:07:39 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: [freestyle] DLS Comments Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! What does DLS stand for again? I just don't remember. Off the bat, I want to agree with Vince who said (something like) the DLS concept should be incorporated as a modfication of the current add system. What if, perhaps, instead of coming up with all new values for moves (that we all know and love, and keep in mind there are a lot of us that are not online and will take a lot longer to catch up with any new systems), that we go into the "tenths" of a point and rate them accordingly. I think this makes sense, it builds on top of an existing system that we all have invested much time into learning, and even memorizing. For instance, a ripwalk might stay as a 4.1 and a da da curve might be a 4.0 and vortex might be 4.7... the only problem is that moves like atom smasher would still only be able to be 3.9 (the hardest 3 add move, or it might qualify for enough modifiers that it ends up being worth 4.0 or better). We could use DLS philosophy to determine (in part, because we need to incorporate spin/duck/dive/ and other elements and their combinations to get difficulty to be generally accurate) the difficulty of the move. Oh, and I still like calling the new system MADDS (Modified Adds) to be, again, built on top of the existing system. I like the angle it (DLS) takes with the vertical and horizontal axis, I now picture the computer simulation with the axis' graphically defined. It accurately describes the whirl and swirl style dexterity across the horizontal axis, without obscuring it's value or difficulty. We have been struggling to explain why paradox mirage is harder than mirage and why it deserves an extra add, and DLS seems to put a scientific method with and really, really, really long definition and reason why it is harder. Ironically, it could be simply put in just about every paradox move, that the dex is done "the hard way" but that doesn't always work and leaves a lot of room for interpretation. If adds were really trying to accurately represent "difficulty" they would have to account for the set, which we could do with MADDS if we want. We just need a formula that we can agree on and then we need to make a cannonical list. We probably won't use MADDS for anything but shred contests, but it could be suited for other uses way down the road, once refined. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 10 18:27:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22757 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:27:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.208.133.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06853 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:19:41 -0700 Received: from [204.148.83.33] (d33.mvn2.interaccess.com [204.148.83.33]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA02313 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:19:39 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:27:44 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: [freestyle] Possible modification to worlds scoring system... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! Derrick mentioned the need for a modification to the freestyle system, and I have just the thing. First, we have a thirty point system (3 groups of 10 points each) and I don't recommend changing that, just the way it is totalled up and judged. Difficulty card totals at 10 points and gives players 5 points towards drops (at .25/each) which gives players 20 drops before they go wholesale. The other five points go towards a combination of: adds/100 plus difficulty ratio. The problem there is that the combination is now frequently, especially on high-end routines, the "other five points' possible get maxed out and keep the system from rewarding the more difficult routines appropriately. I say we make the wholesale limit on drops at 12, tying up only three points in drops and applying those extra two points towards "the other five points"... making them "the other seven points". This means that a player who has 300 adds and a 3.10 ratio would get the points for that added difficulty and a score of 6.10 for difficulty rather than having the system max that player at 5.0. This helps to reward the players that hit more difficult routines. And face it, if someone drops 8 times (let alone 12), they don't have a chance to win a major event. Presentation card is already basically a "ranking" system. So why not admit it, loosen the "point references" restrictions (five categories of two points each) and change it so the presentation judges are looking for the best routine from an asthetic/artsy point of view, without taking into account variety and difficulty. This will speed up the "presentation" scoring process (we all admit that the presentation judges are the ones slowing down the process.) For instance, we have three judges on presentation, one ranks the players based on "Personality/Originality" and "General Form", another ranks players based on "Planes and Travel" and "Linking", and another ranks players on "Music and Movement" (remember, we can mix and match these or just throw them out and re-analyze what we mean by "presentation"). Judges rank players from best to worst in whole number increments with the best player getting 10 points with scores going down one point at a time to the "worst". Each player gets three scores, we average them, and that is their presentation score. So if a player is best in two categories and third best in one category, they would have a score of 28 (10+10+8), divide that by the number of judges for a final score of 9.33 on presentation. This way each judge is not asked to figure out scores for all categories, and the judging time will be significantly reduced. Cannot have pools with over 10 players in them (which we don't usually have anyway). Composition card is done the same as it currently is done. Judges have the final scores almost immediately. Maybe we can make changes to the "add" system that will effect the categories we are judging players on, this still needs to be hashed out, but suffice it to say that it will still need at least 5 judges to do accurately. Number of judges required: 2 for adds/drops/contacts 3 for presentation 5 for composition 10 judges total. Not a major change to the system, but a bunch of minor ones. What do you think? How many holes can you find in it? Derrick Fogle is way correct when he says that the major blockage to rule changes in freestyle come from non-freestylers who think they know what "freestyle should be". I could name names, but I will refrain from that... if you want to know specific "freestyle rule change blockers" names, write me on the side. He is also right that with more people on the freestyle committee, we have more power, but we need consensus, and we need to get the "blockers" to back off and let the freestylers design the future of our own sport. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 10 18:44:27 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22809 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:44:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22806 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:44:26 -0700 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09705 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:57:25 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.226] (dhcp-216-111-252-190.atext.com [216.111.252.190]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21339 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:59:47 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] Womens Singles Freestyle finals at worlds... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 7:23 PM -0500 8/7/99, Scott Davidson wrote: >Did anyone notice that Carol didn't compete in pre-lims and did compete in >finals... as top seed? >That was no accident, but it almost didn't happen that way. Sam did the >"way above honorable thing" to do, and she insisted that Carol be put into >finals, and in the top seed position, and all the other women agreed. Sure, give me no credit at all. :-( And way to put me on the spot to have to defend that decision which at first glance appears to be contrary to the rules. Anyway, what *really* happened was that I threw out the first round, which many people thought was unnecessary anyway, and amended the tournament format so that there was only one round. This happened because of Sam's insistence, and also because Lisa McDaniel graciously scratched out of the event to make things easy (since she and Valeria had been cut as a result of the first round, which we threw out), and we started over again with Valeria and the rest of the women (including Carol) re-seeded based on their original seeds before the event. We didn't have time (we would have had to pay hundreds of dollars if we'd gone over) to have all the original women compete, so Lisa's scratching made it possible. Lisa also came through by getting last-minute judges (thanks, judges) and being the head judge through part of the event, keeping us as close to running on time as was possible. As it was, we finished and were out of the arena only *5 minutes* before they would have imposed the late fee. Whew. >So kudo's to Sam who did a big thing by getting Carol into finals, and to >both Sam and Carol and all the women for their great performances! Sam definitely advocated for that situation. However, please note that I had already intended (and Carol knew this) to have Carol go out and do a routine on finals night. It was only whether or not the other women conceded to annulling the first round and starting the tournament over as a 1-rounder that determined whether or not the judges we to actually judge Carol. So, either way, I wanted to go on record in case Scott's words are misinterpreted as controversy. There was nothing improper from a rules standpoint about what we did, although clearly I was lax by letting someone compete who had not registered by the registration deadlines. But in this case, because she was injured and wasn't sure if she'd be able to play, and who am I to stop one of the few women freestylers from participating in a waning event? And everyone agreed that Carol could have been seen as having a "bye" into this round, but that's *not* what happened. We simply threw out the first round and converted the tournament into one round, with everyone reseeded. Steve From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 11 05:22:56 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23506 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 05:22:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1303.mail.yahoo.com (web1303.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.153]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA10680 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:30:56 -0700 Message-ID: <19990810184233.5725.rocketmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.191.169.19] by web1303.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:42:33 PDT Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:42:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Subject: Re: [freestyle] Womens Singles Freestyle finals at worlds... To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Steve wrote: > However, please note > that I had already intended (and Carol knew this) to > have Carol go > out and do a routine on finals night. It was only > whether or not the > other women conceded to annulling the first round > and starting the > tournament over as a 1-rounder that determined > whether or not the > judges we to actually judge Carol. This reminds me of something Alex, Peter and I were talking about one night at World's. That is, to always have the former year's World Champion seeded in final round. They shouldn't always have to compete in preliminaries to make it to finals. Rather, they should always be in finals defending their title. We were actually talking about Men's freestyle at the time (I think?) but it was cool to watch it happen in Women's freestyle...even if the records show that officially it was because the first round was tossed. What do you guys think about that? See ya, Jane From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 11 05:23:19 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23516 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 05:23:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13235; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 13:21:33 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zODOa07549 (4320); Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:20:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:20:55 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... To: enlightener@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 8/10/99 9:41:44 AM, enlightener@footbag.org wrote: <> I wanna say an "ommelette" but don't think that is right.... ~Bryan F. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 11 05:23:26 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23526 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 05:23:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f81.hotmail.com [209.185.131.144]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA12405 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:53:34 -0700 Received: (qmail 67099 invoked by uid 0); 10 Aug 1999 19:53:03 -0000 Message-ID: <19990810195303.67098.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 38.31.4.215 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:53:02 PDT X-Originating-IP: [38.31.4.215] From: "Alex Durant" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] tripless shred at worlds Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:53:02 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org HUGE tripless freestyle this year from Ryan Mulroney Brian Mckenzie Dave Holton none of which are at present claiming tripless (way to keep your options open guys!) From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 11 05:23:29 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23536 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 05:23:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11124 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:52:46 -0700 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (209-107-90-078.chicago.verio.net [209.107.90.78]) by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA12913 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 13:52:41 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 13:57:44 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: [freestyle] Does this move have a name? Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! Another possible new move, but I am sure someone has done it and named it... so what is this? Toe > op IO > op Symp IO > op Toe? I hit it 5 times today and a bunch of times where the symposium dex was probably "the", so I need to be careful of "the-ing" this move. I call it "Toe Set Backside Symposium Blur". 4 adds by the current system. For me it is, Rt. toe set, left leg mirage, right leg symposium mirage, left toe catch. Did I get my Jobs notation right? See yA! Scott. Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 11 05:23:32 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23546 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 05:23:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12083 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:38:00 -0700 Received: from mlerf.org (mail.mlerf.org [207.160.128.29]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA02396 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:37:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [freestyle] Possible modification to worlds scoring system... Message-Id: <000000080663017158737@mlerf.org> From: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:38:57 -0500 Organization: MLERF X-Mailer: CommuniGate 3.1 Reply-To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF) To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, Aug 9, 1999, 2:27:44 PM US CST Scott Davidson wrote: >appropriately. I say we make the wholesale limit on drops at 12, tying up >only three points in drops and applying those extra two points towards "the >other five points"... making them "the other seven points". This means (of course this is long... all my messages will either fit on one screen or go on for pages and pages) First, I'd like to endorse the idea that we can take a couple of points away from drops scores and put them into difficulty. Scott's idea here sounds perfectly reasonable. The only question should be whether the penalty per drop should be higher than .25. Second, on the issue of ranking: It provides (and forces) a greater degree of differentiation between players by grading on the curve rather than against an absolute. In a ranked system with 8 players, the 'spread' between players is 12.5%. That's the equivalent of forcing each player's score to be 1.25 points higher or lower than any other competitor for our current presentation panel judges. Note that I'm not against this! But we must be aware of it. Putting the presentation panel on a ranking system without also converting the rest of the system to ranking would cause the presentation panel's scores to have several times the impact than any other facet of the scoring system does. Scott, this is directed very specifically toward you (hopefully not too confrontationally). In the past I've seen you try to de-emphasize the relative impact of presentation scores, and emphasize the importance of technical and difficulty scores. From your suggestion, it seems like you've changed your mind about the importance you want to give to the presentation cards. Yet you've got one wacko, hard-core mindset on difficulty. Last night a drummer came out and played drums for Ida, Joe, and I. I styled for about a 1/ 2 hour to those drums. Technically I did zero, one, two, three, and four add 'moves', but what I actually did was just freestyled. In a half hour, my leg muscles were practically on fire! It was the hardest, most intense workout I've gotten for months - without limiting myself to doing any kind of 'rated' move. Since Worlds, and the ensuing difficulty thread on this list, I feel like I have snapped out of a trance. I've lost so much of my own 'old' style over the last 4 years; partly due to age and injuries, but partly due to the 'trance'. I'll spare the rest of the 'self-rediscovery' text... And on to the self-serving: it does slow down the circle, and cause players to get cold. Why not set a damn timer? If no one self serves, and there are never even any pass-backs, the bag will get back around the circle quicker, providing a more even tempo of play. If you want to 'try again right away' because you think it will make you better faster, then go kick by yourself! The 'evening out' of bag time for circle participants was originally accomplished by non-linear serving. Now there is linear serving, a certain level of difficulty to limit rally length, and self-serving to even out each player's turn. Nuts. Three wrongs don't make a right. Of course, I've got a new comeback to the self-server: I don't pass the bag when I 'trip' or 'tilt' or 'guilt' or (even worse yet) 'zilch'. I pass when I drop or when I get damn good and ready to, whichever comes first. It has provided me with a great deal of entertainment when I've done this, watching the 'next' player step forward expecting a pass, and that confused moment when they realize its not coming. Of course here and now is the first time I've explained any of this, so those who've kicked with me have been just as confused about my rules for passing the bag as any other 'un-educated' newbie would be about the more common rules for passing the bag and self serving. ______________________________________ Derrick Fogle the fossilized chicken trying to regrow a few funky old feathers From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 11 05:25:25 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23558 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 05:25:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f255.hotmail.com [207.82.251.146]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA14688 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:20:05 -0700 Received: (qmail 60528 invoked by uid 0); 10 Aug 1999 21:19:31 -0000 Message-ID: <19990810211931.60527.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.188.192.181 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:19:30 PDT X-Originating-IP: [205.188.192.181] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: enlightener@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:19:30 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all. Scott D recently brought up some moves and asked about their names and who has hit them. The first move is "simply" pogo pdx drifter, and i've seen Marc Conte in Montreal hit this. It is technically 6 adds, but people arbitrarily throw out the symposium add part of the pogo set because it doesn't "feel" like it makes it more difficult. The next move in question is a blurry symposium blur, or a stepping voodoo. Red hit this at Western's last year, and Tuan and Noah Dubreuil have supposedly hit it too. A toe set reverse miraging reverse mirage is a scrambled eggbeater, or simply omelette, or scrambled omelette. i've heard it called many things, but I don't often see it hit clean. All very cool moves. Now as for the idea of "slurry" being a set name, I am not really for it. To me a slurry set is a blurry or pogo set where the bag is pulled under the support leg, and isn't a "true" set, that is, there is no dex performed. A "the" ripwalk has a slurry set. On a very different note, I want to give a general "congrats" to the sport of freestyle. I was watching raw shred and the 96 tam tam jam videos today, and after having studied Sultans of Shred for the last fortnight, it really struck me how much the game has evolved in the last few years. If you look at the strings on today's videos as compared to those of just a few years back, the number of tricks as well as their difficulty has just skyrocketed. I can't wait to see the level of play not just at next year's worlds, but in 10 years. Keep pushing that envelope everybody. Ken C-Fan Somolinos nyfa From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 11 05:25:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23568 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 05:25:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18476; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:52:02 -0700 Received: from default - 63.11.188.30 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:51:16 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01bee38d$08ce8a40$1ebc0b3f@default> From: "Tina Lewis" To: , "Scott Davidson" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Womens Singles Freestyle finals at worlds... Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:03:28 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Everyone knows Sam is a class act. She even competed in Mixed Net and was watching almost all of the women's net -- May she never retire despite her threats. Tina. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 11 05:25:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23578 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 05:25:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19017; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:14:33 -0700 Received: from default - 63.11.188.30 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:14:02 -0700 Message-ID: <002701bee390$35dca140$1ebc0b3f@default> From: "Tina Lewis" To: , "Scott Davidson" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Possible modification to worlds scoring system... Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:26:51 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Scott posted the following: "Derrick Fogle is way correct when he says that the major blockage to rule changes in freestyle come from non-freestylers who think they know what "freestyle should be". I could name names, but I will refrain from that... if you want to know specific "freestyle rule change blockers" names, write me on the side. He is also right that with more people on the freestyle committee, we have more power, but we need consensus, and we need to get the "blockers" to back off and let the freestylers design the future of our own sport." Yikes! Seems a little harsh to me-I think freestyle belongs to all of us. If I'm in the above "blockers" category so be it. I don't compete in freeystyle anymore but that doesn't mean I'm not deeply interested in it - (yes I read the freestyle list). My concern on IFC is Footbag as a sport- freestyle, net, consecutives and golf. We are about balance. I don't believe that coming up with some rules for competition that we all agree advance the sport is a bad thing. Freestyle has grown incredibly since I started playing - both in spite of the rules and because of them. We have to agree about what we want to judge in freestyle competition (BAP shredding only ???). All footbag players have a stake in that - not just active freestylers. Making changes within the framework we have gives everyone time to adjust and see how things work. If I saw a petition at IFC that was signed by the majority of people who competed at Worlds I might be swayed but I'd also have to be convinced that the change was valid and promoted the sport of FOOTBAG. I have spent some time judging and it was extremely difficult - it is part of the reason I choose not to compete in Freestyle. I also love to play freestyle in circles and non competitively. Agreeing on rules that advance all disciplines of the sport is what we are about. I believe that freestyle has grown in so many ways and directions in the last 10 years its incredible - its hard to believe that freestylers let anything or anyone block that. O.K. that's my side of the story. tina. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 11 05:25:58 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23588 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 05:25:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18037 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:37:30 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990810233728.IJP8716.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:37:28 -0700 Message-ID: <37B0B977.6DB326BC@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:44:55 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Scott Davidson wrote: > > Hi Freestylers! Hi Scott. > Is this a new move? Probably not, if not then does it have a street name? > Blurry Symposium Drifter (R clipper set straight up about mid chest level > with an instant "pogo" style left leg symposium followed by paradox drifter > with R leg) I don't think you can call this "blurry symposium". The way you are using "blurry symposium" is actually just "pogo paradox". So, this move that you are describing is a "pogo paradox drifter". All that pogo means - as opposed to blurry - is that you don't plant your set leg while doing the set. So, if you do clip > (no plant while) op IN > - pogo clip > (plant) op IN > - blurry (or stepping) Make sense? > Hey all you "frontsiders" is this a new move? > Blur with an extra symposium mirage at the end... Sorry, but it isn't new. I think I saw Peter trying it at worlds. A voodoo is a pdx symposium blur, so this move that you describe is a blurry voodoo (or a blurry symposium blur). And, yes, you could do it pogo (a pogo pdx symp blur). > Also close to: > Frontside symposium blur with an additional symposium mirage at the end > (i'm close to this one). This is basically a pogo blur with an extra > symposium mirage at the end, Careful what you say here... a pogo blur with an extra symposium mirage at the end would be a four dex move (one for the pogo, two for the blur, and one for the extra symp mirage). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you are talking about is what I mentioned earlier - a pogo voodoo. This would be a pogo pdx mirage followed by another symp mirage at the end. > Also, what is this? > Toe set- reverse miraging reverse mirage? What is the name of this? This one came up a while back, but I can't remember the name of it. Sunil hits it way too easily. And, I seem to remember a guy by the name of Jason Frost who would do these set from clipper - a bubba pdx rev mirage. I saw him come close to a bubba pdx eggbeater - a bubba set, pdx rev miraging out legover. Pure hell. Anyone know what happened to him? > How about this? > Symposium Gimping Symposium Whirl Again, the pogo set is involved. This would be called a pogo gimping symp whirl (nice move by the way). Now, I get to ramble about this wonderful sport :) To sum up all of what I have said here, I don't think that a pogo set gets a symposium add. Why? Because it isn't any harder than a blurry set - just different. Back in the day, a pogo set was worth two adds. There were a lot of 7 add moves being hit (see Kenny's pogo pdx whirling swirl at the end of Raw Shred for example). Then, everyone seemed to agree that pogo didn't deserve an extra add, so they took it away. Now, the only two 7 add moves *that I know of* are Dave Holton's blurry ducking torque (stepping ducking pdx torque if you like it better that way) and Tuan Vu's shooting torque. Why doesn't pogo get a symposium add? Hmmm... technically it should. If pogo gets a symposium add, then shooting does too. That would make a shooting set worth 4 adds (2 dexes, a pdx (for the second dex) and a symp). I don't think that anyone can honestly say that a shooting set is two adds harder than a nuclear set (pdx rev miraging set). So, why just take away an add that is technically there? That isn't right, is it? Who decides which adds are omitted? This is why we NEED a new system to accurately define dificulty. The DLS is not a patch for the obsolete add system, it is a way to replace it. You can't fix the add system... let's face it. I thought that a way to 'legally' take away the symp add from pogo and shooting was to take away any symp add on a set. But, what about a symposium reverse mirage set? That is worthy of the extra add. Or any symp set starting from toe. Hey, there's an idea. You can only get symp adds on a set if the bag starts on a toe. What do you think? And, Scott, about that gimping move, I like it. I think that more people should do gimpy stuff. Screw the adds. Gimps look cool. Try gimpy stallbergers and stuff. Little, yellow, different, better. I've rambled enough. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 11 05:26:03 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23598 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 05:26:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from edtnps04.telusplanet.net (edtnps04.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.104]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24585 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:28:15 -0700 Received: from gdprpx05-port-14.agt.net ([161.184.233.37]:1933 "HELO towerpowerii") by smtp1.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <49554-28750>; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:27:36 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990810222808.007ba7b0@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: moukorfos@mail.geocities.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:28:08 -0600 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Mou Korfos Subject: [freestyle] Great quote Dave Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org "The great thing about this sport is the variety of possible moves! I have been at it over 15 years now and I am still learning/creating new moves and literally learning something new or doing a new combo *every day*. You can't say that about any other sport."- Scott Davidson Great quote Dave, put that on the bacl of a shirt and I would wear it everyday... er well as close to it as possible and still maintian relatively good Hygine and a job. *laughs* "[it's] about infinite variety and the deep feeling of self esteem and accomplishment when you complete something new." I'll keep that one for the multitude of friends I have that will never understand this sport. -Mou Korfos Moukorfos@geocities.com ICQ #2467105 | Welcome Transmition: | To "Normal is the average of all weirdness" | The End Transmition. |:> | Jungle. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 11 05:51:27 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23661 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 05:51:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.118]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25463 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:03:13 -0700 Received: from postoffice-273.iap.bryant.webtv.net (postoffice-273.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.91]) by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id WAA20616; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:03:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from production@localhost) by postoffice-273.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) id WAA28213; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:03:13 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhQiyWbFrDPs2tDMpbU+VyZ4zeA0zQIVAJP5SPxuUhQYI1+8hkik5DlXSh/u From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 01:03:12 -0400 (EDT) To: footbug@hotmail.com (KeN Somolinos) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... Message-ID: <18780-37B10410-20876@postoffice-273.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "KeN Somolinos" 's message of Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:19:30 PDT Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >first move is "simply" pogo pdx drifter,It >is technically 6 adds, I really need to know if pogo is still "technically" 2 adds. GF From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 11 06:04:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA23675 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 06:04:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23672 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 06:04:35 -0700 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25719 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:17:34 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.226] (dhcp-216-111-252-191.atext.com [216.111.252.191]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17647 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <18780-37B10410-20876@postoffice-273.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: <18780-37B10410-20876@postoffice-273.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:20:23 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 1:03 AM -0400 8/11/99, Greg Nelson wrote: >I really need to know if pogo is still "technically" 2 adds. It's not. I need to go update that move list, huh. Steve From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 11 18:59:50 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24221 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:59:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12475 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:40:42 -0700 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (209-107-90-078.chicago.verio.net [209.107.90.78]) by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA13015; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:40:36 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990810184233.5725.rocketmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:49:45 -0600 To: Jane Jones , freestyle@footbag.org From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Womens Singles Freestyle finals at worlds... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! >This reminds me of something Alex, Peter and I were talking about one >night at World's. That is, to always have the former year's World >Champion seeded in final round. They shouldn't always have to compete >in preliminaries to make it to finals. Rather, they should always be >in finals defending their title. > >What do you guys think about that? I think it would be nice to know (for the current champ) that they will be guaranteed into finals the following year... HOWEVER... I think it is necessary to have that player compete in all rounds, and if they don't make it through the pools to finals, then they would be advanced to finals under this "ruling". Back in, I think it was '90, we tried a similar thing, where ALL the finalists from the previous year were advanced into the 2nd round without competing in 1st round. It turned out that the players didn't like it, "they needed that round to get used to the pressure" or something like that, and I can relate to that. Also the first two rounds kind-of get the scuttlebut talking about new/unique/incredible things that are happening in that performance, and gets the judges prepared to judge as accurately as possible in finals (new moves unveiled can be questioned and explained instead of "winging it", resulting in more accurate judging). It also turned out that 4 of the 8 players (I think) did not make it to finals, and they blamed the "free pass" for their poor performance, at least in part. So I would be careful how this rule is implemented, if at all. Also, how would it affect the intermediate champ, who inevitably, will be competing pro the following year? Comments? See yA! Scott. Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 11 19:00:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24228 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 19:00:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ux4.isu.edu (ux4.isu.edu [134.50.250.16]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12561 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:45:11 -0700 Received: from isu.edu ([134.50.103.15]) by ux4.isu.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA11FC; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:45:05 -0600 Message-ID: <37B1B7B7.A6F61D08@isu.edu> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:49:43 -0600 From: Bob Green X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Derric Scalf , "'freestyle'" Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... References: <37B0B977.6DB326BC@dallasfootbag.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Derric Scalf wrote: > I don't think you can call this "blurry symposium". > > The way you are using "blurry symposium" is actually just "pogo > paradox". So, this move that you are describing is a "pogo paradox > drifter". > > All that pogo means - as opposed to blurry - is that you don't plant > your set leg while doing the set. So, if you do > > clip > (no plant while) op IN > - pogo > clip > (plant) op IN > - blurry (or stepping) I seem to remember from threads of past that blurry implies paradox (opposite side second dex), and stepping does not (same side second dex). So if pogo is basically a symposium blurry set, is a pogo paradox drifter really just a pogo drifter? If that is the case, what is the name of a symposium stepping set? By the way, I do realize some people argue sets should not get a symposium add. I am just looking for a concise descriptive tool for moves of this nature. Gotta love move nomenclature, huh? Thanks, Bob From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 11 21:52:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24357 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:52:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13935 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:48:42 -0700 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (209-107-90-078.chicago.verio.net [209.107.90.78]) by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA07916; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:48:36 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000000080663017158737@mlerf.org> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:02:03 -0600 To: dfogle@mlerf.org (Derrick Fogle, MLERF), freestyle@footbag.org From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Possible modification to worlds scoring system... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Derrick and Freestylers! At 2:38 PM -0500 8/10/99, Derrick Fogle, MLERF wrote: >First, I'd like to endorse the idea that we can take a couple of points away >from drops scores and put them into difficulty. Scott's idea here sounds >perfectly reasonable. The only question should be whether the penalty per drop >should be higher than .25. Thanks. We have discussed the increased penalty and decided that it is already high enough (especially since it takes 25 adds to make up for a single drop). Further discussion on this is encouraged by me, I'm interested in what you all have to say about this. Note that a higher drop penalty may not have a proportional relationship with the number of drops seen in routines, it would just guarantee that the person with less drops has a MUCH better chance of winning. >Scott, this is directed very specifically toward you (hopefully not too >confrontationally). In the past I've seen you try to de-emphasize the relative >impact of presentation scores, and emphasize the importance of technical and >difficulty scores. From your suggestion, it seems like you've changed your >mind about the importance you want to give to the presentation cards. I just feel that the presentation judges, because they have such large differences in their scores, are inevitably the deciding vote in who wins and loses. I feel the presentation judges have too much weight, and it needs to be balanced. I feel that could be accomplished, in part, by quantifying two of the 5 categories that presentation measures (specifically Linking and "Planes/Travel"). This would speed up judging by reducing presentation judges workload by 2/5ths, unfortunately, it would increase the number of judges needed in the current system by 1 or 2. >Yet you've got one wacko, hard-core mindset on difficulty. Last night a >drummer came out and played drums for Ida, Joe, and I. I styled for about a 1/ >2 hour to those drums. Technically I did zero, one, two, three, and four add >'moves', but what I actually did was just freestyled. In a half hour, my leg >muscles were practically on fire! It was the hardest, most intense workout >I've gotten for months - without limiting myself to doing any kind of 'rated' >move. Awesome, I love just shredding in a circle without linear passing, especially when I am at the hub. When in that situation, I adjust... I do a couple of tricks and pass. Flow to the music is different for different people, and I try to do that, while still omitting 3 add moves. Thats just me (although you may spy me using some 3-add frontside moves that are with-honor for me). Take it or leave it. >Of course, I've got a new comeback to the self-server: I don't pass the bag >when I 'trip' or 'tilt' or 'guilt' or (even worse yet) 'zilch'. I pass when I >drop or when I get damn good and ready to, whichever comes first. It has >provided me with a great deal of entertainment when I've done this, watching >the 'next' player step forward expecting a pass, and that confused moment when >they realize its not coming. Of course here and now is the first time I've >explained any of this, so those who've kicked with me have been just as >confused about my rules for passing the bag as any other 'un-educated' newbie >would be about the more common rules for passing the bag and self serving. Derrick, I would never have pegged you for passive-aggressive behavior. ;-) There are no rules. Freestyle IS STILL free. Do what you will. Be honorable to yourself, be good to others. Sleep well. See ya! Scott. Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 11 23:01:03 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA24402 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:01:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17438 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:16:40 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zTHJa05147 (4546) for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <43331c2b.24e34205@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:15:49 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Womens Singles Freestyle finals at worlds... To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm not to to familiar with the pool format used at Wrolds but I'd like to offer this. What is the point of automatically putting the defending champ in the finals. It takes out the excitement. I hate to do this, but, If baseball did that it woul dbe boring, football same thing, basketball, same, etc. What is the point of it? Also, I would feel like whale shit if I was competing and had to go through the first round but so and so World Champion was advanced without giong through the first round. Alright that's my two cents. Owen Parrish P.S. I decided to plan a pittsburgh comp?/shred for next summer. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 12 02:07:01 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA24561 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 02:07:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1306.mail.yahoo.com ([128.11.23.156]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA21864 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:07:51 -0700 Message-ID: <19990812000724.5812.rocketmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.191.169.19] by web1306.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:07:24 PDT Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:07:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Subject: Re: [freestyle] Womens Singles Freestyle finals at worlds... To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey hey- World Champ wrote: >It turned out that the > players didn't like it, > "they needed that round to get used to the pressure" > or something like > that, and I can relate to that. Yeah, I can relate to that too. And for some, that could create an unfair disadvantage if you're likely to be more nervous the first round. >Also the first two > rounds kind-of get the > scuttlebut talking about new/unique/incredible > things that are happening in > that performance, and gets the judges prepared to > judge as accurately as > possible in finals (new moves unveiled can be > questioned and explained > instead of "winging it", resulting in more accurate > judging another good point...I hadn't thought of this. I guess my main thought on the subject was that the World Champion ought to be able to be in the Final rounds to defend his/her title. One would like to believe that World Champion is good/capable enough to make it into Final's regardless. But then, suppose they didn't make it to Final's...at that point, I don't think it is fair to just shoo them in, unless you do something like Steve arranged for women's freestyle at World's this year. To toss the preliminary rounds and making everyone eligable. (and this only worked out as smoothly as it did because the # of women competitor's was so few) Now, I can't remember why exactly I thought this was a good idea in the first place...okay, so where were we? wasn't everyone talking about DLS or something ;-) see ya, Jane From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 12 02:07:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA24571 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 02:07:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1303.mail.yahoo.com ([128.11.23.153]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA19395 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:34:52 -0700 Message-ID: <19990811223433.11421.rocketmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.191.169.19] by web1303.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:34:33 PDT Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:34:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Subject: [freestyle] Other Freestyle Judging Systems To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey there, I was scoping out the IUF (International Unicycle Federation) website and found some interesting articles. After reading the discussions regarding the accuracy of our judging, ADDs, and DLS systems this unicycle reference seems relevant. check out this URL: http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/iufrules/5freest.html I thought it was cool to see they have a freestyle judging system not too different from footbag's freestyle judging system. Mostly surprised because some of you had me questioning if our current system was archaic and out-dated, however, I am finding more and more that it is quite current and strong standing. That isn't to say we should not consider a DLS:contacts rather than a ADDs:contact ratio to more accurately judge difficultly. blah blah blah... see ya, Jane From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 12 02:07:25 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA24581 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 02:07:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06580 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 06:16:12 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03790; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:16:04 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:16:04 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Derric Scalf cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... In-Reply-To: <37B0B977.6DB326BC@dallasfootbag.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > There were a lot of 7 add moves being hit (see Kenny's pogo pdx whirling > swirl at the end of Raw Shred for example). Then, everyone seemed to Actualy, Kenny does a blurry whirling swirl. But on Raw Shred Tuan does a pogo paradox torque, which was considered 7 adds. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 12 02:07:29 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA24591 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 02:07:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f218.hotmail.com [209.185.130.128]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA23176 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:10:51 -0700 Received: (qmail 7714 invoked by uid 0); 12 Aug 1999 01:10:21 -0000 Message-ID: <19990812011021.7713.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 139.67.16.25 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:10:19 PDT X-Originating-IP: [139.67.16.25] From: "Frank Gutowski" To: enlightener@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Does this move have a name? Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:10:19 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Scott, I think that is symposium toe blur - I hit that in Portland two years ago, but Merlin is the king of this move. Frank From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 12 04:54:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA24895 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 04:54:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f223.hotmail.com [209.185.130.161]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA23349 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:17:19 -0700 Received: (qmail 73345 invoked by uid 0); 12 Aug 1999 01:16:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19990812011644.73344.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 139.67.16.25 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:16:43 PDT X-Originating-IP: [139.67.16.25] From: "Frank Gutowski" To: enlightener@footbag.org, janejones2000@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Womens Singles Freestyle finals at worlds... Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:16:43 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Scott and all others, I think it would be useless to have a "special rule" - to just let the champ in the finals if she/he happened to be cut in the first or second round. It would be silly because how do you decide who gets skrewed out of a place in the finals to make room for the champ - this would bring up a whole new set of demons nobody wants to deal with. Frank From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 12 04:54:46 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA24905 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 04:54:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27216 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:00:51 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990812040044.RRMN8716.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:00:44 -0700 Message-ID: <37B248C1.B04D76B6@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:08:33 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'freestyle'" Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... References: <37B0B977.6DB326BC@dallasfootbag.org> <37B1B7B7.A6F61D08@isu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I wrote: > > All that pogo means - as opposed to blurry - is that you don't plant > > your set leg while doing the set. So, if you do > > > > clip > (no plant while) op IN > - pogo > > clip > (plant) op IN > - blurry (or stepping) and then Bob Green wrote: > I seem to remember from threads of past that blurry implies paradox (opposite > side second dex), and stepping does not (same side second dex). So if pogo is > basically a symposium blurry set, is a pogo paradox drifter really just a pogo > drifter? If that is the case, what is the name of a symposium stepping set? By > the way, I do realize some people argue sets should not get a symposium add. I > am just looking for a concise descriptive tool for moves of this nature. Gotta > love move nomenclature, huh? Thanks for the question. I love getting to spout off about the blurry/stepping thing. Ok. This is my opinion. If ever anyone asks me, this is how I explain it. As far as the way other people like to explain it, I just don't understand why some people like to make things confusing. Blurry - clip > (plant) op IN > op something Stepping - clip > (plant) op IN > same something Pogo - clip > (no plant while) op IN > whatever. A blur is technically a blurry mirage. The fact that the second dex is paradox is purely incedental. A ripwalk is a blurry butterfly (this is opposed to a stepping butterfly which is all on one side). A torque is a blurry osis (as opposed to a stepping osis all on one side). Now, there is no confusion on whether or not things are paradox. The above non-pdx blurry examples also have common names that are used more frequently. People might be wondering why I don't just call a blurry butterfly a ripwalk... I do! Just because a ripwalk is a blurry butterfly doesn't mean that you can't call it a ripwalk. Everyone knows that a blurry mirage is just called a blur. A move has two names - the technical descriptive name and the common 'street' name. Why do I insist on calling ALL stepping opposite side moves blurry? For CONSISTENCY. What about blurry dyno or blurry reverse whirl? There is no paradox, but they are most definitely different from stepping dyno and stepping reverse whirl. I got tired of saying 'stepping opposite side' when I could just say 'blurry'. Saves time and it makes the name sound better. Why should blurry incorporate paradox? Paradox is a paradox in that it cannot be accurately defined. If blurry is limited to paradox moves, then blurry can't be defined either. See the logic? *** stepping and blurry sets are one and the same - the only difference is what leg does what afterwards*** And how does pogo fit into all of this? Pogo is a stepping/blurry set without the immediate plant of the set foot. As things stand now, there is no distinction between pogo same side and pogo opposite side. This may change as more people start hitting more things pogo style. Perhaps we could use Scott's idea of the 'slurry' set to mean 'pogo op side' and continue to use 'pogo' to mean 'pogo same side'. Now, about the name 'slurry'. Like Ken, I have been brought up to believe that you "slur" a set when you don't really have a clean 'blurry' set. Like a 'jaywalk' as opposed to a 'ripwalk'. (I don't know if jaywalk is a common name or not, but that is what I've always called a really low and ugly ripwalk) So, why would I want to use 'slurry' to mean 'pogo op side'? Why not? Anyone have a better name for it? Usually, a pogo set is somewhat 'slurred' anyway. Wow, I sure can ramble. That is what happens when you get two chemistry majors talking about nomenclature. Thanks again for the question Bob. Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 12 17:45:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA25599 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:45:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web222.mail.yahoo.com (web222.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.122]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA10179 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 06:23:16 -0700 Message-ID: <19990812132000.7891.rocketmail@web222.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.14.224.26] by web222.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 06:20:00 PDT Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 06:20:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Vern DeHaven Subject: [freestyle] Non-complimentary double-dex moves To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey people, This is for the "frontsiders". <--love the term, Scott Just hit my first non-complimentary double-dex move (eggbeater), and I'm stoked! Had a Q about toe-set blur. I'm not close to the double-dex moves incorporating in-dexes (sorry about that pun). About the set, how high? Chest, waist? Does the 1st dex leg have to be over the bag on the way up, or does it cross over at the top (if set at waist height)? Thanx for the help, Vern DeHaven nreV === Gravity is a wonderful bend of time. Just ask someone who shreds. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 12 17:44:52 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA25587 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:44:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from homer.tomahawktech.com ([206.191.48.232]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11004 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 07:08:41 -0700 Received: from pc0966.software.mitel.com (Administrators@localhost) by homer.tomahawktech.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA00292 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:09:33 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Message-ID: <001401bee4cc$36096800$c136c786@software.mitel.com> From: "Dave Reid" To: "'freestyle'" References: <37B0B977.6DB326BC@dallasfootbag.org> <37B1B7B7.A6F61D08@isu.edu> <37B248C1.B04D76B6@dallasfootbag.org> Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:08:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ----- Original Message ----- > Blurry - clip > (plant) op IN > op something I think you meant to put "op IN/OUT". > Wow, I sure can ramble. That is what happens when you get two chemistry > majors talking about nomenclature. Thanks again for the question Bob. Heh... there's a great source for new move names! Clipsettransbiplantingdexol (currently known as Ripwalk) Dave From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 12 17:46:25 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA25629 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:46:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matt Cross Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13535 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 08:58:41 -0700 Received: from Problems1@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zFGSa01827 (4241) for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:57:50 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Womens Singles Freestyle finals at worlds... To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 8/12/99 12:11:12 AM, frankgut@hotmail.com writes: << Scott and all others, I think it would be useless to have a "special rule" - to just let the champ in the finals if she/he happened to be cut in the first or second round. It would be silly because how do you decide who gets skrewed out of a place in the finals to make room for the champ - this would bring up a whole new set of demons nobody wants to deal with. Frank >> I agree with frank. I think if you're in finals, you should earn it all over instead of being bumped up. but then again, I'm no pro, so I don't have their point of view, I'm only skoolin whirling swirls at this point... that's my thoughts Matthew From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 13 04:41:07 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA26375 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 04:41:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f174.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.174]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA16868 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:00:48 -0700 Received: (qmail 56974 invoked by uid 0); 12 Aug 1999 18:00:14 -0000 Message-ID: <19990812180014.56973.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:00:14 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.62] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Non-complimentary double-dex moves Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:00:14 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Vern sayz... Had a Q about toe-set blur. About >the set, how high? Chest, waist? Well, lets get back to that part with the next question. Does the 1st dex leg have to be over >the bag on the way up, or does it cross over at the top (if set at >waist height)? I personally do a "hippy" version of this move. In which my set is around waist high (maybe belly) and the bag is still rising after my leg goes over it--keep in mind what I just meant to say is the bag is at waist height AFTER my first dex. This leaves you a bit of time to untangle your legs and bust that 2nd mirage. I like to think of the first dex like a hippie atomic set--just the other direction(reverse atomic if you will). I usually try to set a bit(not a lot at all) in front of my first dex leg. This makes it a bit easier for me to get my leg over the bag in a stepping sort of fashion with the bag still on its way up. I am apologize for my inadequacy in describing this, I am not a good teacher and by no means a master of this move. Frank was probably getting frustrated with me as I was trying to show him this set at the MUFF Jam. At least I think that is what he meant when he said,"Get away from me Ian. I don't like you. Your stupid.". Yeah, no worries Frank--I will stop calling on a daily basis. Now, on a serious tip, Sunil "Grand Master of Toe Blur" Jani (aka Tsunami)does a leggy version that is tight as all hell. I cannot even understand how he gets that leg up and over in such a fashion, but I can tell you that he is extremely efficient with it--ten of them suckers consecutively, ouch. He would probably be the better advice giver if you can coax him into it. You know what I mean, Vern? >Thanx for the help, No problem. I hope you can pull something useful from my jibberish. Late, Ian D. MUFF From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 13 04:41:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA26385 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 04:41:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17213 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:13:24 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA05483 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:12:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.executrain-dal.com(207.43.182.10) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005395; Thu Aug 12 13:12:27 1999 Message-ID: <37B30E7F.C2ABB538@utdallas.edu> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:12:15 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dave Reid wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > > Blurry - clip > (plant) op IN > op something > > I think you meant to put "op IN/OUT". Nope. Actually, a clip > op OUT is a bubba set. Don't ask me who came up with that name, I don't know. If, by IN/OUT you mean a dex that goes from in to out - not a dex that could either be in OR out, then that is a little redundant. Someone mentioned a while back something about using 'in/out' as opposed to just using in, but that is a new change. Job's notation uses a simple 'in' to mean an in to out dexterity and a simple 'out' to mean an out to in dex. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 13 07:34:57 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA26529 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 07:34:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32011 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 21:19:57 -0700 Received: from [204.148.83.32] (d32.mvn2.interaccess.com [204.148.83.32]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA21288 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 23:19:54 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 23:28:28 -0500 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Possible modification to freestyle scoring system... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Freestylers! Derrick wrote: >I completely disagree. Presentation judges can affect 10/30 of the total >score.... >Pres = 3 judges for 10 points >Comp=5 judges for 10 points >Diff=2-3 judges for 10 points >What about that makes you think they have more influence than other judges >(presentation)... I must preface these comments with a PLEA for the breakdown of the freestyle scores (not the overall scores, that's just not as sexy as freestyle breakdowns for a freestyler). I (and Ian and others) would love to see them. If it is not too much trouble Steve, please send me a copy of BW's "killer app" (which is begging to be rewritten, by the way, on the good platform, get it away from the dark side) and the file you used and I will find a way to extract the data. I can take that task off your hands steve, and you can rest easier. I will post the data, once massaged, to the list. How bout dat? First, Difficulty is 2 judges (drops/contacts and adds). Second, it is not really about the number of judges, it is about the differences in their scores. If you look at Composition scores, the pro finalists (because they know *exactly* what the judges are looking for), are able to fill the comp cards quite well. So the top players comp scores are usually within a couple of tenths of each other. BTW, the comp card could probably just as accurately be done with four judges, having a single judge take on unusuals card and another (use the most qualified judge for this). Note: the following scores are theoretical and not based on any factual data, due to the lack thereof... Third, Difficulty scores for the top finalists are also usually VERY close. For instance, I probably had about 260 adds and Ryan had around 300 (very nice, the first ever to break 300 adds). That is a .40 advantage for Ryan. And since we both had low drops, i think he had two and I had one (that drop *did* legitimately count at the end of my performance, no problem there), so there is a .25 difference in our scores there, making it .15 in his favor. Then we have the difficulty ratio where I was around 2.8 and he was around 2.6. Here's the kicker though, the add ratio and difficulty max out at 5.0, so both of us got a 5.0 (and so did a couple of others I believe). So that brings us back to the .25 difference due to the drops. Fourth, Presentation scores for the top finalists are usually different by over .75 points, often more ( I would need to look at historical data to determine this accurately, but my experience reminds me that this is true, often with very large differences between the top players scores in presentaiton). That makes them the largest single deciding factor in who emerges victorious. To make matters worse, the presentation judges actually talk to each other, making the "loudest mouth on the panel" the most persuasive, often persuading and even sometimes (albiet non-intentional usually) intimidating less experienced judges to "go along" with them. Then to dig even a deeper hole, the presentation categories are vague at best. With only two of them being quantifiable (easily) and the other three being a hodge podge of mushy weak definitions of indecisive non-descript "needs" that the players need to fulfill. Does anyone want to try to define "originality and personality"? How about "music and movement"? As a player, it is hard to know what the judges are looking for, and as a judge, it is hard to know what the heck those vague descriptions mean, and when the categories are fulfilled. It is kind of like grading on a curve, which is essentially a fancy way of ranking. Not to mention that the bottleneck (time-wise) is all in the hands of the overworked presentation judges. The vaguarities of the system are evident when you look at the average scores of different panels of presentaiton judges with different groups and they are all over the place, this indicates to me that the presentaiton judges are just simply ranking in their heads. So this gives us the biggest range in scores, and therefore the "deciding" vote in who wins and who doesn't. It would be so simple to quantify "linking" and "planes/travel". For linkiing, put one judge on it, have them write down the adds as they happen, put slashes where there are drops and circles where there are breaks in strings, and it will be obvious who was the better linker. The best player would simply get a 2.0, the next best would get a 1.8 etcetera to the worst linker getting the lowest score. And for "planes/travel" the single judge would think to themselves that there is one point going to "planes' and one point going to "travel". If the player only uses the lower plane, they get a .3, if they use a balance of low medium high kicks/tricks then they get a 1.0... and for travel, if they stand in one place and shred, they get .3 and if they use the floor better than anyone else, they get a full point. Simple. The beauty of this is that it frees up the presentation judges so they only have to calculate 6 points instead of 10 possible, which reduces their workload, and theoritcally the time it takes to complete. As for error rates, if you look at the current comp judging, the errors are minimal but they do exist. If you look at presentation errors, they are significant when they happen, and I propose that they happen WAY more frequently than you think... especially since we can't go back and "verify" it. And ESPECIALLY since when the scores are posted, the poor player only gets to see their "presentaiton total" and not the breakdown thereof (correct me if i am wrong on this, it has been over a year since I have looked at final scores.). :-( Derrick wrote: >If the players are about the same tech ability, the winner in the >presentation should be the winner of the event. Thats simple. I wouldn't have such a problem with that statement if the presentation card was more "quantifiable", and less mushy (meaning untraceable). The players don't know what the judges are looking specifically for, and the judges are overwhelmed by having to score 10 full points and get the average, they are under the clock gun, and influenced by loud voices, and overworked in general. Without knowing what the judges are looking for, then it is up to the whimsy of the presentation judges (often the loudest one is most influencial) as to who wins and that just doesn't work from a player (or a judging) standpoint. It's not that simple from where I stand, the difficulty and comp scores should count, and as it stands, the results seem to be influenced by the card that traditionally has the biggest difference in scores, the presentation card. That is why I say the presentation judges have too much power. Thats simple. :-) Hope that helps (lots of babble, I apologize to those who don't care [use your feet and quickly delete])... See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener. PS And don't get the wrong idea, Derrick and I are always friends, just shootin' the chit and havin' a blast, as usual. :-) This can lead to actual proposals for the IFC, and this year, I propose to you all, we will be spending a lot of time on freestyle issues at the annual IFC (formally IFAB) meeting (not just pushing it to the side, resisting change and moving things to committee like usual). This is the year of freestyle reform! When we get to the IFC meeting, we will have our ducks in a row, we will be confident that we can overcome any resistance by pre-lobbying for votes and ironing out proposals in advance, and have the wordings solid, so they are palateble even to the most resistant members of the IFC. Yeah, this is the year of freestyle! From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 13 17:37:39 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26958 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:37:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13456 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 05:50:18 -0700 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (209-107-90-078.chicago.verio.net [209.107.90.78]) by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA25929; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 07:50:03 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37B0B977.6DB326BC@dallasfootbag.org> References: Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:01:07 -0600 To: Derric Scalf , freestyle@footbag.org From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Derric and Freestylers! >> Hey all you "frontsiders" is this a new move? >> Blur with an extra symposium mirage at the end... > >Sorry, but it isn't new. I think I saw Peter trying it at worlds. A >voodoo is a pdx symposium blur, so this move that you describe is a >blurry voodoo (or a blurry symposium blur). And, yes, you could do it >pogo (a pogo pdx symp blur). I'm just extatic (sp?) that I am doing the voodoo that you do so well. :-) Last week voodoo was a mystery, now it is making more sense. Yipee. >> Also close to: >> Frontside symposium blur with an additional symposium mirage at the end >> (i'm close to this one). This is basically a pogo blur with an extra >> symposium mirage at the end, > >Careful what you say here... a pogo blur with an extra symposium mirage >at the end would be a four dex move (one for the pogo, two for the blur, >and one for the extra symp mirage). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I >think you are talking about is what I mentioned earlier - a pogo >voodoo. This would be a pogo pdx mirage followed by another symp mirage >at the end. Nope. NOT pogo, it is a regular blur with a third dex at the end in the form of a symposium mirage. >To sum up all of what I have said here, I don't think that a pogo set >gets a symposium add. Why? Because it isn't any harder than a blurry >set - just different. Back in the day, a pogo set was worth two adds. >There were a lot of 7 add moves being hit (see Kenny's pogo pdx whirling >swirl at the end of Raw Shred for example). Then, everyone seemed to >agree that pogo didn't deserve an extra add, so they took it away. Now, >the only two 7 add moves *that I know of* are Dave Holton's blurry >ducking torque (stepping ducking pdx torque if you like it better that >way) and Tuan Vu's shooting torque. I thought we agreed that the pogo gets the dex add, but not the symposium add, if the symposiumness is not maintained throughout the move. And if the symposiumness was maintained then it got the extra add (loco)... which would hold true for Pogo Paradox Drifter making it 6 adds... truly a loco move, and could be referred to as "Loco Paradox Drifter". >Why doesn't pogo get a symposium add? Hmmm... technically it should. >If pogo gets a symposium add, then shooting does too. That would make a >shooting set worth 4 adds (2 dexes, a pdx (for the second dex) and a >symp). I don't think that anyone can honestly say that a shooting set >is two adds harder than a nuclear set (pdx rev miraging set). So, why >just take away an add that is technically there? That isn't right, is >it? Who decides which adds are omitted? If you do a shooting set, and maintain the symposiumness, then I don't see any problems with giving it the body add for the symposium. Keep in mind, we are using adds to indicate "elements of difficulty" not measure the "actual difficulty" of the move... although adds are a pretty good indicator of difficulty, that is not what it was designed for. Most shooting moves don't maintain symposiumness so thats that. Heres a monkey wrench... what about "double symposium moves"? I do a couple of them, most basically the loco symposium mirage, which is a pogo set to a same side symposium mirage. It maintains symposiumness and therefore is worthy of the five adds. Not exactly an easy move either, I fall backwards onto my ass half the times I try it. >This is why we NEED a new system to accurately define dificulty. The >DLS is not a patch for the obsolete add system, it is a way to replace >it. You can't fix the add system... let's face it. I thought that a >way to 'legally' take away the symp add from pogo and shooting was to >take away any symp add on a set. But, what about a symposium reverse >mirage set? That is worthy of the extra add. Or any symp set starting >from toe. Oh, contraire. We can't throw away the adds system, we should SERIOUSLY consider building on top of it, or fixing it to reflect the freestyle of today, rather than that of yesteryear. Keep in mind, back when the system was being developed in '86, "osis" was one of the biggest moves there was, and "swirl" was being done by all of three people on the planet earth. So we have come a long way baby, and refinements are in order to the system. >Hey, there's an idea. You can only get symp adds on a set if the bag >starts on a toe. What do you think? I don't like that one at all. >And, Scott, about that gimping move, I like it. I think that more >people should do gimpy stuff. Screw the adds. Gimps look cool. Try >gimpy stallbergers and stuff. Little, yellow, different, better. We have barely scratched the surface of possibility of gimping moves. Gimping ducking barfly? >I've rambled enough. Me too. See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 13 17:37:41 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26963 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:37:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from homer.tomahawktech.com ([206.191.48.232]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14589 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 06:58:41 -0700 Received: from pc0966.software.mitel.com (Administrators@localhost) by homer.tomahawktech.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA00248 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:00:22 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Message-ID: <003801bee594$0acbc700$c136c786@software.mitel.com> From: "Dave Reid" To: References: <37B30E7F.C2ABB538@utdallas.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:59:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org ----- Original Message ----- > > > Blurry - clip > (plant) op IN > op > something > > > > I think you meant to put "op IN/OUT". > > Nope. Actually, a clip > op OUT is a bubba > set. Don't ask me who came up > with that name, I don't know. Oh duh.... I am so spaced out these days (or maybe always)... I read it as clip > (plant) op IN > op IN > something then I had trouble understanding why your following argument didn't agree with that. There's no better place to make an idiot of yourself than here :) Recently someone mentioned kick sets, and I was wondering if anyone out there ever tries kick sets (other than flyers) in the middle of strings. How about other unusual sets? Dave From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 13 18:18:40 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27019 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:18:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19667 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:14:19 -0700 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (209-107-90-078.chicago.verio.net [209.107.90.78]) by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA14549; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:13:11 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <18780-37B10410-20876@postoffice-273.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: "KeN Somolinos" 's message of Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:19:30 PDT Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:21:05 -0600 To: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson), footbug@hotmail.com (KeN Somolinos) From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Greg and freestylers! At 1:03 AM -0400 8/11/99, Greg Nelson wrote: >>first move is "simply" pogo pdx drifter,It >is technically 6 adds, > >I really need to know if pogo is still "technically" 2 adds. It is one add if the move does not maintain symposiumness, and two adds if it does maintain symposiumness to the ending contact. The two add version is also called Loco. Unless this has changed, that is the way I remember it. But Steve G. says that both have been reduced to 1 add. I think this is unfair to moves that maintain symposiumness, which definately contain an added element of difficulty. What's the skoop? See ya! Scott d. Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 13 18:18:54 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27024 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:18:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19771; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:21:06 -0700 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (209-107-90-078.chicago.verio.net [209.107.90.78]) by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA19384; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:21:03 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002701bee390$35dca140$1ebc0b3f@default> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:30:28 -0600 To: "Tina Lewis" , , "Scott Davidson" From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Possible modification to worlds scoring system... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Tina and Freestylers! Scott D. wrote: >"Derrick Fogle is way correct when he says that the major blockage to rule >changes in freestyle come from >non-freestylers who think they know what "freestyle should be". Tina replied: >Yikes! Seems a little harsh to me-I think freestyle belongs to all of us. >If I'm in the above "blockers" category so be it. I don't compete in >freeystyle anymore but that doesn't mean I'm not deeply interested in it - >(yes I read the freestyle list). I kind of figured you were lurking. >My concern on IFC is Footbag as a sport- >freestyle, net, consecutives and golf. We are about balance. I don't >believe that coming up with some rules for competition that we all agree >advance the sport is a bad thing. Freestyle has grown incredibly since I >started playing - both in spite of the rules and because of them. We have >to agree about what we want to judge in freestyle competition (BAP shredding >only ???). Thats not what I am saying at all. And granted the freestyle committee has been lax in coming to the IFAB with concrete proposals to vote on, I guarantee you, this will not be the case in the year '00. >All footbag players have a stake in that - not just active >freestylers. Making changes within the framework we have gives everyone >time to adjust and see how things work. If I saw a petition at IFC that was >signed by the majority of people who competed at Worlds I might be swayed >but I'd also have to be convinced that the change was valid and promoted the >sport of FOOTBAG. You WON'T see a petition signed by everyone, 'cause that is unrealistic. However, I invite you... no, I *urge* you to join onto the freestyle committee (if not officially, then be a part of our online discussion group) so we can get your opinion up front and iron out any differences so when we get to the IFC meeting, we can streamline the voting on the new rules for the freestyle system, reduce discussion with the group and reduce bickering and dissention, and help to keep the meetings on-purpose. >I have spent some time judging and it was extremely >difficult - it is part of the reason I choose not to compete in Freestyle. >I also love to play freestyle in circles and non competitively. Agreeing >on rules that advance all disciplines of the sport is what we are about. I >believe that freestyle has grown in so many ways and directions in the last >10 years its incredible - its hard to believe that freestylers let anything >or anyone block that. O.K. that's my side of the story. tina. And now, the rules have become like a tight belt around the belly of a big fat beer drinker, and that belt is about to burst. I am not saying that we need to throw out the existing system and make freestyle a shred fest in place of the current system. What I am saying is that we need to consider some real serious changes to the way we score, and the way we weight the scores, particularly on how the 10 points for difficulty are scored, and better defining what the mush of "presentation" really means, and quantifying presentation, and maybe removing some burden (read "power") from the hands of the presentation judges, so that comp and presentation are more balanced and more even in their ability to "pick the winner" due of the spreads between the scores. (See my other long winded post from last night.). Don't get me wrong, I really want what is best for the sport, and what is best for the players and the growth of freestyle in general. We can discuss this further on the IFC freestyle list and come to a more concrete proposal, and I would love you (tina) to be a part of that discussion. Lets make changes together, from grass roots upward... and the world will continue to be the happy place that it is. Tina (and all), thanks for reading, please join us in our freestyle quest... I (we) look forward to working with you to make freestyle the premier event that it deserves to be! Think fast, think freestyle! See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 13 18:50:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27058 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:50:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20187 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:37:20 -0700 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (209-107-90-078.chicago.verio.net [209.107.90.78]) by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA29546; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:37:15 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37B248C1.B04D76B6@dallasfootbag.org> References: <37B0B977.6DB326BC@dallasfootbag.org> <37B1B7B7.A6F61D08@isu.edu> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:47:50 -0600 To: Derric Scalf , "'freestyle'" From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Derric and all! >Ok. This is my opinion. If ever anyone asks me, this is how I explain >it. As far as the way other people like to explain it, I just don't >understand why some people like to make things confusing. > >Blurry - clip > (plant) op IN > op something >Stepping - clip > (plant) op IN > same something >Pogo - clip > (no plant while) op IN > whatever. > >A blur is technically a blurry mirage. The fact that the second dex is >paradox is purely incedental. A ripwalk is a blurry butterfly (this is >opposed to a stepping butterfly which is all on one side). A torque is >a blurry osis (as opposed to a stepping osis all on one side). I have to cut this short, but basically this is confusing technobabble from above. Blurry is well defined, and I caution you from watering it down. There is no reason to call a torque a blurry osis, if anything it is a stepping osis or miraging osis, but definately not a blurry osis. Now "pogo paradox torque" may in essence be a blurry osis, but lets not go there right now. See ya! Scott. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 13 18:50:53 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27068 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:50:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20015 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:29:15 -0700 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (209-107-90-078.chicago.verio.net [209.107.90.78]) by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA24295; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:29:10 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37B1B7B7.A6F61D08@isu.edu> References: <37B0B977.6DB326BC@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:39:30 -0600 To: Bob Green , Derric Scalf , "'freestyle'" From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org HI Derric and Bob and all! At 11:49 AM -0600 8/11/99, Bob Green wrote: >Derric Scalf wrote: >> I don't think you can call this "blurry symposium". > Bob wrote: >I seem to remember from threads of past that blurry implies paradox (opposite >side second dex), and stepping does not (same side second dex). So if pogo is >basically a symposium blurry set, is a pogo paradox drifter really just a pogo >drifter? If a train leaves Chicago going west at an average speed of 45 miles per hour, and another train leaves Denver travelling east at an average speed of 54 miles per hour, when will Rippin', Genzu, the Boulder crowd and Enlightener get to shred together again? (At Funtastik, I hope... we just made our hotel reservations, today is the last day for the $72 rooms.) No Pogo is not necessarily blurry, it is a symposium miraging set....so it could be blurry symposium if there is a paradox in there, but not necessarily. >If that is the case, what is the name of a symposium stepping set? By >the way, I do realize some people argue sets should not get a symposium >add. I >am just looking for a concise descriptive tool for moves of this nature. >Gotta >love move nomenclature, huh? Yep. Symposium stepping set is just another way of saying "pogo". Me thinks. See ya! Scott. Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 13 20:55:48 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA27173 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:55:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dept.english.upenn.edu (DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU [130.91.75.246]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22895 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:29:32 -0700 Received: (from sunilj@localhost) by dept.english.upenn.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) id PAA95938 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:29:18 -0400 From: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani) Message-Id: <199908131929.PAA95938@dept.english.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:29:18 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Scott Davidson" at Aug 13, 99 12:21:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org According to Scott Davidson: > > It is one add if the move does not maintain symposiumness, and two adds if > it does maintain symposiumness to the ending contact. The two add version > is also called Loco. Unless this has changed, that is the way I remember > it. Uh..... no..... Symposium is symposium no matter what happens throughout the rest of the move... it only applies to the dexterity in question. Scott, are you trying to say that ps whirl and ps mirage do not get a symposium add since you change your plant foot before the symposium (i.e. they do not maintain their "symposiumness" throughout the move) ??? Pogo is (I recall) only one add no matter how you do it. If one version is 2 adds, then both should be. Loco (I recall) means crazy in spanish. > But Steve G. says that both have been reduced to 1 add. I think this is > unfair to moves that maintain symposiumness, which definately contain an > added element of difficulty. Crap, crap, trash... both versions are just as difficult. > See ya! Don't threaten me, man... Why do I always feel so icky after I post to this list?? -SJ From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 13 22:22:04 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA27248 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:22:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25383 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:00:23 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zSQKa28682 (3986) for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:58:32 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I think we need a new name for symposium. To big a word...:-). j/k Owen "Can't Wait to see some real footbag at Funtastik" Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 13 22:21:58 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA27243 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:21:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25311 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:59:07 -0700 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (209-107-90-078.chicago.verio.net [209.107.90.78]) by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA09244; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:59:03 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199908131929.PAA95938@dept.english.upenn.edu> References: from "Scott Davidson" at Aug 13, 99 12:21:05 pm Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:10:22 -0600 To: sunilj@dept.english.upenn.edu (Sunil Jani), freestyle@footbag.org From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Sunil! >Symposium is symposium no matter what happens throughout the rest of the >move... it only applies to the dexterity in question. Scott, are you >trying to say that ps whirl and ps mirage do not get a symposium add since >you change your plant foot before the symposium (i.e. they do not maintain >their "symposiumness" throughout the move) ??? Not throughout the move, but from the point of the beginning of the symposium part of the move, so the ps whirl and ps mirage would both get the symposium. >Pogo is (I recall) only one add no matter how you do it. If one version >is 2 adds, then both should be. Loco (I recall) means crazy in spanish. > Yes, loco is crazy. We need to discuss this again, any takers? You all must be bored with my rants. >> But Steve G. says that both have been reduced to 1 add. I think this is >> unfair to moves that maintain symposiumness, which definately contain an >> added element of difficulty. >Crap, crap, trash... both versions are just as difficult. Then which way to go with it? Maybe one add, vs. two madds? Remember, adds help to determine "elements of difficulty" not necessarily "actual difficulty". Mostly because the add system ignores the set, and couldn't have forseen the need to incorporate difficulty factors for opposing dexterity moves and the like. So MADDS can incorporate DLS, Spin difficulty (in-spin vs. partial spins vs. multiple spins etc), it can take into account the "set" which will solve the paradox conundrum (and any other measure of difficulty we can think up) and all will be well in the bean counters camp. >Don't threaten me, man... Dude, relax. I am not, nor is anyone attacking you personally. Just need to iron out a concept, and who better to be at the center of the discussion, than SJ, the master of all things frontside. King of the frontsiders (IMNSHO)! >Why do I always feel so icky after I post to this list?? Is it something you ate? Maybe it is some internet virus you are contracting? Maybe that explains how you can make a hippy reverse mirage set go up over your head and keep going. SJ, when are you coming to chicago again so you can skool me in person on my front side? You've got a place to stay for sure! See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 13 22:22:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA27263 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:22:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Matt Cross Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25510 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:06:03 -0700 Received: from Problems1@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zDFGa07437 (4395) for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4f40e4d9.24e5e28d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:05:17 EDT Subject: [freestyle] 10 Thinks I Like About Footbag To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org 1. you can play it naked and alone, unlike most other sports 2. it's portable, you can take a bag and shoes anywhere 3. Good freestyle attracts a crowd 4. It's a positive sport; non-contact, and minimal competition (note: I don't play net.) 5. The pros are accessible by your everyday player 6. The pros will teach you how to bring your game to the next level with a big smile 7. These rollicking discussions! 8. you've[set]>just>GOTTA[verb]>love>job's>notation>[drop] 9. facilities to play are minimum, so it's not a big production for the everyday player 10. Chicks dig skinny sweaty guys with no shirts, SHORT shorts, and rank smelling feet. That's my little brain excretion for the day matt cross From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 13 23:32:02 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA27335 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:32:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27854 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:28:09 -0700 Received: from rac4.wam.umd.edu (root@rac4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.144]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21992 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:28:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac4.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA29597 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29593 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908132227.SAA29593@rac4.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] the champ speaks Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org wow. lots of words scot, awesome to read. just a few words from here- if we reduce the number of points in the presentation by quantifying it, then we aren't merely quantifying it and removing bias, we also end up weighting the comp cards more. given that the comp cards are relatively close anyway- this may not be a problem, but i felt it was necessary to point out that your idea says technical aspect shoudl be weighed more by having more points. other words- i tabulated the results for all of freestyle this year. what i remember most between the scores of the players in the final round was that the player who hit his routine best, had obviously done so. he outperformed the others most notably IN THE COMP CARDS, and that was where the greatest difference was made. i'm not under the impression the presentation cards have too much power. any system that has quantifiable and subjective aspects in judging will end up with more power seeming to lie in the subjective area when the players reach similar high levels of play. in other words, what derrick said. i think the most important point however is that no matter how much effort is placed in making judgements more quantifiable, they will be subject to bias in some way. and whatever that way is will make the difference. and again, i think it may actually be very important to use a system that DOES NOT value current trends in development of the art it is meant to judge. simply because it asks more of us. it asks us to do something we aren't inclined to do. l8r- vince From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 13 23:32:14 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA27345 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:32:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from majordomo2.umd.edu (majordomo2.umd.edu [128.8.10.7]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27377 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:07:59 -0700 Received: from rac4.wam.umd.edu (root@rac4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.144]) by majordomo2.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21991 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:07:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Bradley Received: from rac4.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA28771 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:07:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rvbpaco@localhost) by rac4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28767 for freestyle@footbag.org; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:07:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:07:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908132207.SAA28767@rac4.wam.umd.edu> To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] bye to finals Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey hey the notion of a previous world champion havign a bye to finals in performance oriented competition is not a bad idea. in any case- no matter if the player was eliminated or not- it is an attraction to spectators to see the previous world champion perform. i woudl recommend asking any previous world champion to perform with the finalists. if they qualify as finalist then they qualify to try and be the world champion again. if they didn't compete in previous rounds, or failed to make the cut to any round, then it is still a great idea to have them perform. and even be ranked, but not with the possibility of placing in the top eight. giving a player the option to use a bye to finals doesn't seem to bad to me either. say next year, scot gets the option to not do preliminary rounds and be in the finals. or to do preliminary rounds and risk being eliminated by other players. to me this works because it has the potential to allow 9 great players to perform in finals, and gives the champion a measure of grace for their accomplishment, as well as a tricky strategy to figure out. in essence the champ would have to weigh the risks, and take one, without honestly being given any surer path. but thats just my .02 l8r vince From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 13 23:32:25 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA27355 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:32:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27611 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:17:35 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990813221731.OZQV29356.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:17:31 -0700 Message-ID: <37B49B71.6A7AC92D@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:25:53 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Reid CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Kick sets and added difficulty (was: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other) References: <37B30E7F.C2ABB538@utdallas.edu> <003801bee594$0acbc700$c136c786@software.mitel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Dave Reid wrote: > > Recently someone mentioned kick sets, and I was wondering if anyone out > there ever tries kick sets (other than flyers) in the middle of strings. > How about other unusual sets? But of course! I was witness to Matt "Sofa King" Strong starting his tripless string by kicking into a torque. Also, I've seen Kung Fu Kyle's kickadon - I might have halucinated that name, but it is a kick set to a paradon. Granted, these are all at the start of a string, not the middle, but cool nonetheless. As for kicks and gimps (knee kicks) in the middle of strings, those are always fun to see. James Roberts (the current all around world champion) has started throwing in a spinning butterfly kick to a ducking osis in a string. How's that for variety? Anyone who has seen videos knows about Eric Wulff and his mastery of the blur kicks, stepping mirage kicks, stepping butterfly kicks, etc. I guess these are all fliers though, aren't they? Now, for a short trip back to the difficulty thing, what about moves set from up high (kicks and gimps)? These moves require a totally different timing, so - to me at least - they are harder. Maybe in the DLS, there can be some way to incorporate the height of the contact (above knee level for gimps and kicks OR below knee level for stalls). Anyone else think that this should be considered for an accurate difficulty rating system? And, you asked about other unusual sets: Zoid set - a x-bdy toe set where the setting foot starts out on the ground x-bdy toe set (try infinity, pdx mirage or pdx whirl set from xbdy toe) cloud set - off of the calf and of course the dragon set is a bit unusual. If you want to see either the zoid set or a cloud set swirl, look at the video clips of James Roberts on http://www.dallasfootbag.org Go to the multimedia link and then on to the DFC shred section. -Derric DFC From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 14 02:16:59 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA27463 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 02:16:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28587 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:55:13 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990813225512.PKZI29356.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:55:12 -0700 Message-ID: <37B4A447.8DB81D87@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:03:35 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... References: <37B0B977.6DB326BC@dallasfootbag.org> <37B1B7B7.A6F61D08@isu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello y'all. I wrote: > >Ok. This is my opinion. If ever anyone asks me, this is how I explain > >it. As far as the way other people like to explain it, I just don't > >understand why some people like to make things confusing. > > > >Blurry - clip > (plant) op IN > op something > >Stepping - clip > (plant) op IN > same something > >Pogo - clip > (no plant while) op IN > whatever. > > > >A blur is technically a blurry mirage. The fact that the second dex is > >paradox is purely incedental. A ripwalk is a blurry butterfly (this is > >opposed to a stepping butterfly which is all on one side). A torque is > >a blurry osis (as opposed to a stepping osis all on one side). and, Scott Davidson wrote: > I have to cut this short, but basically this is confusing technobabble from > above. Blurry is well defined, and I caution you from watering it down. So, I write: Let me reiterate what I said earlier. To keep from 'watering down' the definition of blurry, we need to use it in only one way. I say that that one way should be clip > op IN > op something. This is in no way watered down. But, what if you say that blurry absolutely positively MUST be paradox? Then, what is the definition of blurry? clip > op IN > op paradox dex (now see Steve's three page definition on paradox http://footbag.org/movelist/paradox-tutorial.html) Suddenly, the concept of blurry isn't that clear. See where I'm coming from? I'm just looking for *consitency* that will help new players understand the concepts of the sport. Scott also said: > There is no reason to call a torque a blurry osis, if anything it is a > stepping osis or miraging osis, but definately not a blurry osis. Now > "pogo paradox torque" may in essence be a blurry osis, but lets not go > there right now. Now, I am confused about your 'well defined' blurry set. I don't see how a pogo pdx torque could be a blurry osis. And, about the torque being a blurry osis, you need to see where I'm coming from. Blurry means 'stepping op side'. So, a blurry osis is a stepping opposite side osis. You propose to call torque a stepping osis. That is already a move. It ends with an osis on the original dexing foot. I don't like the idea of two different moves sharing a name. -Derric PS Scott and everyone... I want you all to know that I really get off on this stuff - as is evidenced by my frequent rambling. I mean no disrespect to any players - especially the current world champ. I love the idea of freestyle *almost* as much as playing. And, when it comes to this list, I get to think aloud with a group of like minded people. Thanks to Steve for hosting this list, and thanks to all for starting these great threads. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 14 02:17:27 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA27483 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 02:17:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28710 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:59:24 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990813225923.PLZZ29356.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:59:23 -0700 Message-ID: <37B4A542.340422B3@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:07:46 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org A while back, I wrote: > >This is why we NEED a new system to accurately define dificulty. The > >DLS is not a patch for the obsolete add system, it is a way to replace > >it. You can't fix the add system... let's face it. I thought that a > >way to 'legally' take away the symp add from pogo and shooting was to > >take away any symp add on a set. But, what about a symposium reverse > >mirage set? That is worthy of the extra add. Or any symp set starting > >from toe. The Enlightener Scott D. wrote: > Oh, contraire. We can't throw away the adds system, we should SERIOUSLY > consider building on top of it, or fixing it to reflect the freestyle of > today, rather than that of yesteryear. Keep in mind, back when the system > was being developed in '86, "osis" was one of the biggest moves there was, > and "swirl" was being done by all of three people on the planet earth. So > we have come a long way baby, and refinements are in order to the system. I disagree. As Dan Kramer said, the add system is a great way to count the number of components in a move. This doesn't have a lot to do with difficulty though. If we want a system to determine difficulty, the ADD system isn't it. It just works out for most moves that the more components it has, the more difficult it is. Unfortunately, this isn't always true - take atom smasher vs. butterfly for example. They have the same number of components, but the difficulty is different. If we patch the old system, it might give an extra component to atom smasher, but what about drifter, toe set reverse barrage, etc? We would need A LOT of patches to account for all of the inadequacies in the add system. DLS is a great place to start on a system that measures 'windows' and things that have a direct correlation to difficulty. We already have a system to count basic components, now we need one to measure difficulty. Comprende? -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 14 02:19:08 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA27493 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 02:19:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f160.hotmail.com [207.82.251.39]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA31823 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:29:48 -0700 Received: (qmail 62001 invoked by uid 0); 14 Aug 1999 01:29:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19990814012913.62000.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.207.67 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:29:12 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.207.67] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: reiddm@magma.ca, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:29:12 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi stylers! Dave Reid recently asked about unusual and kick sets. Jon Schneider does dragon set swirl ending in a dragon, which he calls a snap dragon. I've hit torque and ripwalk out of a dragon stall. At Worlds i was in a circle where Paul Mestas and Forest Schrodt were doing pixie gimping moves, which I dubbed a pimping set. That's all that readily springs to mind. I'm just glad that people are mixing it up with strange sets and all. I think we've all seen ripwalk to blur too many times to count. Bring on the variety! Ken CF Somolinos nyfa From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 14 02:23:32 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA27511 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 02:23:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from Market.NET (market.net [140.174.206.2]) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27508 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 02:23:31 -0700 Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32027 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:36:21 -0700 Received: from [206.67.46.93] (dhcp-216-111-252-77.atext.com [216.111.252.77]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04755 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:36:20 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brat@market.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199908132207.SAA28767@rac4.wam.umd.edu> References: <199908132207.SAA28767@rac4.wam.umd.edu> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:39:21 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Steve Goldberg Subject: Re: [freestyle] bye to finals Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 6:07 PM -0400 8/13/99, Vince Bradley wrote: >giving a player the option to use a bye to finals doesn't seem to bad to me >either. Tournament systems, brackets, pools, byes, and the like, are well known and well understood. Byes really don't apply in a pool format, at least not as you've been talking about them. If you want to get serious, you have to examine the system for seeding each round, and analyze each person's seed and the relative risk each player has to lose that seed going to the next round, etc. It's complicated stuff that a lot of other disciplines have already handled. I don't have time to do the research now, but I can say for sure that they don't work the way people on this list seem to think they do. Steve From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 14 04:48:58 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA27814 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 04:48:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailsorter-105-1.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.119]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02708; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:57:55 -0700 Received: from postoffice-271.iap.bryant.webtv.net (postoffice-271.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.246]) by mailsorter-105-1.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id UAA26730; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from production@localhost) by postoffice-271.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) id UAA06583; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:57:55 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQql/LklyMyNL0rCv/6fHbPamURAAIUHdpEXM3IW2UgFg9/9ggnDrIjKKE= From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:57:54 -0400 (EDT) To: enlightener@footbag.org (Scott Davidson) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... Message-ID: <14877-37B4E942-12271@postoffice-271.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "Scott Davidson" 's message of Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:10:22 -0600 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey stylers! The champ said : >Not throughout the move, but from the >point of the beginning of the symposium >part of the move, so the ps whirl and ps >mirage would both get the symposium. I say Scott is on to something here. if you start a move with a symposium dex, and do not plant the delay foot throughout the move, you get an extra add. i.e. pogo pdx drifter= 6 adds, pogo pdx blender= 7 adds. That is a period. And pogo barfly is only 5 adds because you must plant. But pogo down double gets ya 6. : ) Now I think I know what icky feeling Sunil was talking about. We have our room for Funtastik, and I'll be their with freshly sharpened blades. GF From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 14 05:16:52 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA27846 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 05:16:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Windsen Pan Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03470 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:25:14 -0700 Received: from PHoEtOiD34@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zHOLa02415 (4260) for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 00:24:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 00:24:02 EDT Subject: [freestyle] ??Pixie Double Leg-Over?? To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Guys, I was just kicking around the other day and I hit what I think is a pixie double leg-over: toe>same in[dex]>op in[dex]>op out[dex]>same toe[del]. by examining it, It looks like pixie double leg-over. But the thing is, I haven't found this move in the freestyle move list at footbag worldwide. I could have skipped it and not saw it or It might be called something else. Let me know if you can help. Thanks in advance Windsen Pan From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 14 09:02:22 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27962 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:02:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Tony Glick Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id bIOMa22962 (4413); Sat, 14 Aug 1999 01:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5b2881a9.24e65993@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 01:33:07 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Accelerated improvement To: freestyle@email.footbag.org, freestyle-digest@email.footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 51 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I think it is safe to say that I am living proof (and I am sure lots of others are too) that competing or being around a tournament greatly accelerates your improvement. Since worlds I have hit double over down, barfly, and stepping butterfly and I can work them into combos. Does anyone else find this to be true? That being surrounded by other non-familiar footbaggers enhances your ability AFTER the event? Discuss... Tony Glick From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 14 09:02:46 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27972 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:02:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Windsen Pan Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04709 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:25:34 -0700 Received: from PHoEtOiD34@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zNRSa07446 (4251) for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 01:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2c1c2ec5.24e657ac@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 01:25:00 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Another move To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Guys, Sorry to ask again, but there's another move I just hit but I have no freaking idea what it is; toe>op in[dex]>[no plant while] op in [dex]>op toe[del]. I'm thinking symposium toe blur...????? thanks again Windsen Pan From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sun Aug 15 18:49:55 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29588 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:49:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA11387 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 03:47:46 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03657; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 05:47:44 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 05:47:44 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Windsen Pan cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] ??Pixie Double Leg-Over?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Hey Guys, > I was just kicking around the other day and I hit what I think is a pixie > double leg-over: toe>same in[dex]>op in[dex]>op out[dex]>same toe[del]. by > examining it, It looks like pixie double leg-over. But the thing is, I > haven't found this move in the freestyle move list at footbag worldwide. I > could have skipped it and not saw it or It might be called something else. > Let me know if you can help. Thanks in advance > Windsen Pan That is a pixie dubble leg over. The movelist at footbag.org doesn't have a lot of moves on it. later From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sun Aug 15 18:50:55 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29605 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:50:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from postoffice2.direcpc.com (mail.direcpc.com [198.77.116.30]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20464 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:43:28 -0700 Received: from hh1114112 ([206.71.114.112]) by postoffice2.direcpc.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-45425U50000L50000S0) with SMTP id AAA28140; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 12:44:34 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990814124447.009a7390@mail.direcpc.com> X-Sender: mavery@mail.direcpc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 12:45:39 -0700 To: Windsen Pan , freestyle@footbag.org From: Matt Avery Subject: Re: [freestyle] ??Pixie Double Leg-Over?? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I believe you were correct...I recently started hitting it also. If you can, try putting it after a smear to spice it up a little. Matt At 12:24 AM 8/14/99 -0400, Windsen Pan wrote: >Hey Guys, > I was just kicking around the other day and I hit what I think is a pixie >double leg-over: toe>same in[dex]>op in[dex]>op out[dex]>same toe[del]. by >examining it, It looks like pixie double leg-over. But the thing is, I >haven't found this move in the freestyle move list at footbag worldwide. I >could have skipped it and not saw it or It might be called something else. >Let me know if you can help. Thanks in advance >Windsen Pan From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sun Aug 15 18:50:23 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29600 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:50:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA11303 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 03:44:29 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03551; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 05:44:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 05:44:26 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Windsen Pan cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Another move In-Reply-To: <2c1c2ec5.24e657ac@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Hey Guys, > Sorry to ask again, but there's another move I just hit but I have no > freaking idea what it is; toe>op in[dex]>[no plant while] op in [dex]>op > toe[del]. I'm thinking symposium toe blur...????? thanks again > Windsen Pan correct, that is sypmosium toe blur From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sun Aug 15 18:51:13 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29629 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:51:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30317 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 17:46:59 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990815004655.ZRYF29356.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 17:46:55 -0700 Message-ID: <37B6100A.559239FE@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 19:55:38 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Windsen Pan CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] ??Pixie Double Leg-Over?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Windsen Pan wrote: > I was just kicking around the other day and I hit what I think is a pixie > double leg-over: toe>same in[dex]>op in[dex]>op out[dex]>same toe[del]. Yes. It is a pixie double legover. I'm not sure if it has a name or not - if so, it was probably named by Aaron dG. Aaron, are you still with us? Nice move. I really hate double legovers in general - or I guess I should say that they hate me. Any tips that you can spare? I'm assuming that if you are hitting this that you are also hitting pdx dbl legover. Congratulations on the new move. Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sun Aug 15 18:50:03 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29595 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:50:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12525; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 04:16:10 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA04768; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 06:14:51 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 06:14:51 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Greg Nelson cc: Scott Davidson , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... In-Reply-To: <14877-37B4E942-12271@postoffice-271.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Hey stylers! > The champ said : > > >Not throughout the move, but from the >point of the beginning of the > symposium >part of the move, so the ps whirl and ps >mirage would both > get the symposium. > > I say Scott is on to something here. if you start a move with a > symposium dex, and do not plant the delay foot throughout the move, you > get an extra add. i.e. pogo pdx drifter= 6 adds, pogo pdx blender= 7 But should pogo paradox drifter be worth more than blury drifter. And should pogo paradox blender be worth more than blurry blender. > adds. That is a period. And pogo barfly is only 5 adds because you must > plant. But pogo down double gets ya 6. : ) If you wanted to "maintane the symposiumness" of pogo down doulbe you would have to do the down double all symposium (like a superfly) or else you would plant. So acutally pogo down double would be worth 5, just like pogo barfly. I don't see why "maintaning the symposuimness" of a pogo move would change the how the pogo set is or the overall difficutly. It doesn't make any sense to me. What if you were to do a pogo paradox drifter and plant after the pogo set, but the plant cleanly and clrealy came after the pogo. Then would the planting version be worth less? I think it would make the move considerably harder because of the timing. Is a pogo symposium mirage harder than a stepping symosium mirage? I think the pogo sytle would make it easier again because of the timing. Same with pogo sympoisum whirl and stepping symopsium whirl (in theory, I don't know if anyone does these moves). Or pogo sameside symposium butterfly and stepping symposium butterfly. Should pogo paradox whirl be 5 adds while pogo paradox drifter is 6? Sorry If I went on too long or offened anyone, but I think pogo should just be worth 1 add period. Although I don't know what what I think is worth considering I can't do any of the above mentioned moves and can't even do a pogo set or a blurry set. Later From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sun Aug 15 18:51:50 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29640 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:51:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30403 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 17:53:23 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990815005316.ZTOM29356.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 17:53:16 -0700 Message-ID: <37B61187.C394BF37@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 20:01:59 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Windsen Pan CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Another move References: <2c1c2ec5.24e657ac@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Windsen Pan wrote: > there's another move I just hit but I have no > freaking idea what it is; toe>op in[dex]>[no plant while] op in [dex]>op > toe[del]. I'm thinking symposium toe blur...????? Yessir. That sounds about right. Who the hell are you? These are some awesome moves. I'm hoping to meet you soon so that you can skool me on the frontside stuff (way to go Sunil, see what you started?). Speaking of shredding and such - especially with the other thread on how tournaments help you to improve and all... who is going to Texas State in Austin? I'm not sure when it is exactly - sometime in late Sept or early Oct I think. Check on footbag.org/events Either way, it will be worth your trip. I heard it rumored that Kyle (the only remaining Texas BAPer) was hitting blurry drifter to barroque. I'm going down tomorrow just to see it for myself :) Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sun Aug 15 18:51:52 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29650 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:51:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailsorter-105-1.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.119]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19514 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 08:54:36 -0700 Received: from postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net (postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.247]) by mailsorter-105-1.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id IAA28695; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 08:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from production@localhost) by postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) id IAA05470; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 08:54:36 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUAh+QbUfDTN6Z7hXiPRV8AzPxNE4YCFQDDZFENlBinQYSMkTzaiwrIZZnD+g== From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 11:54:35 -0400 (EDT) To: jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu (Jeremiah J. Riely) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] New freestyle tricks and other comments... Message-ID: <14453-37B5913B-11991@postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "Jeremiah J. Riely" 's message of Sat, 14 Aug 1999 06:14:51 -0500 (CDT) Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >"I don't see why "maintaning the >symposuimness" of a pogo move would >change the how the pogo set is or the >overall difficutly. It doesn't make any sense to me. What if you were to do a pogo paradox drifter and plant after the pogo set, but the plant cleanly and clrealy came after the pogo. Then would the planting version be worth less? I think it would make the move considerably harder because of the timing." I agree the timing would be a little harder on the stepping version. But the BALANCE on the pogo version more than makes up for it. And we are only talking about the number of move elements involved in the trick, not the difficulty. >"Is a pogo symposium mirage harder >than a stepping symosium mirage? I >think the pogo sytle would make it easier again because of the timing. Same with pogo sympoisum whirl and stepping symopsium whirl (in theory, I don't know if anyone does these moves). Or pogo sameside symposium butterfly and stepping symposium butterfly. Should pogo paradox whirl be 5 adds while pogo paradox drifter is 6?" See above. BTW I did mean that you maintain the symposium throughout the pogo down double, no plant. GF From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sun Aug 15 18:52:23 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29660 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:52:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19705; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 09:43:20 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zJGPa07545 (3938); Sun, 15 Aug 1999 12:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 12:42:19 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Another move To: PHoEtOiD34@aol.com, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 8/14/99 12:16:06 AM, PHoEtOiD34@aol.com wrote: <op in[dex]>[no plant while] op in [dex]>op toe[del]. I'm thinking symposium toe blur...????? thanks again Windsen Pan >> if there's no plant I think that implies that the move is toe set bubba...I don't know how to describe it in terms of symposium.. ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sun Aug 15 18:52:24 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29668 for freestyle-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:52:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08413 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 01:58:04 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA22274; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 03:58:01 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 03:58:01 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Adidas Stan Smiths Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Out of curiosity, I was wondering if anyone has kicked with Adidas Stan Smiths. later From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 17 18:29:15 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA32041 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:29:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f168.hotmail.com [207.82.251.54]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA32705 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:52:24 -0700 Received: (qmail 88641 invoked by uid 0); 16 Aug 1999 01:51:54 -0000 Message-ID: <19990816015154.88640.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.188.199.183 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:51:53 PDT X-Originating-IP: [205.188.199.183] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] re: pixie double leg over Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:51:53 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi stylers! Recently Windsen Pan asked about two moves that he was hitting, and they are pixie double leg over and symposium toe blur. While I know people already told him this, it sort of surprised me that nobody told him the "name" name of pixie dlo, smog. Pixie mirage: smear Pixie reverse mirage: smudge Blurry DLO: Fog hence, pixie dlo: Smear. Oh, and stepping dlo is haze. All very cool moves. Keeping shredding hard everybody! CF nyfa From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 17 18:29:49 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA32056 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:29:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from admin.cgocable.net (admin.cgocable.net [24.226.1.21]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04939 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:33:16 -0700 Received: from [24.226.9.44] (cgowave-9-44.cgocable.net [24.226.9.44]) by admin.cgocable.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13751 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 01:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908160533.BAA13751@admin.cgocable.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 01:43:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Adidas Stan Smiths From: "Neil Bearse" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org stan smiths are the ones with the rubber on the toe.right? ...... i think those are the ones. i tried on a pair of my friends to kick with, and i didnt like them much... the toe is too round, and the bag just slides off.. they look damn cool. but i wasnt impressed with their freestylability. _Neil From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 17 18:29:22 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA32051 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:29:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32116 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:28:52 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zJUYa16296 (4321); Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:28:00 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] Accelerated improvement To: Allman144@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I hope you're right cause Funtastik is gonna be my first tourney. Owen "The Ultimate Skinny Guy In Short Shorts, no shirt, and rank feet" Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 17 18:29:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA32046 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:29:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23368 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 12:16:26 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990815191625.FKWG29356.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 12:16:25 -0700 Message-ID: <37B71421.EA38C070@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 14:25:21 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] records - again Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In the intrest of having a *very* accurate list of consecutive move records, please read on. The record list (http://www.dallasfootbag.org/records.html) was compiled by Dave Reid over a number of years. Some of the records on here just seem a little low and I know that they can be broken. I want to post them - a couple at a time - and if you would PLEASE let me know what your personal record is, I will be able to update the list. Also, if you have video verification on a record, or know where I can find it (I think several records are on Raw Shred and Sultans), I would be more than happy to get them on the web. This is all done on the honor system, so please don't lie to me. If you think that you might have done something or you might have seen something, think hard. Like I said above, I want this thing to be accurate. Here is the first batch: Double ATW: 19 (Lynton), 18 (Rippin) Double Switchover: 5 (Damian) Drifter: 34 (Hu-mungis) Osis: 186 (Kosmo) blurry torque: 2 (Peter) <- nice, huh? Now, I know that someone was witness to these records at some point in time. If you would let me know, or let me know if they have been broken, I would really appreciate it. If I don't hear any kind of verification on a record, I will take it off of the list until it can be verified. That means that the datw record might be 5 for a while. Who knows? If everyone tells me of the best that they know of, everything will go smoothly. Thanks. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 17 18:35:58 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA32087 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:35:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05179; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:56:03 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA06815; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 00:55:59 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 00:55:58 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Bryan Fournier cc: PHoEtOiD34@aol.com, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Another move In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > In a message dated 8/14/99 12:16:06 AM, PHoEtOiD34@aol.com wrote: > > < Sorry to ask again, but there's another move I just hit but I have no > freaking idea what it is; toe>op in[dex]>[no plant while] op in [dex]>op > toe[del]. I'm thinking symposium toe blur...????? thanks again > Windsen Pan > >> > > if there's no plant I think that implies that the move is toe set bubba...I > don't know how to describe it in terms of symposium.. I have never heard of toe set bubba. What is it? I don't see how it could be related to a bubba set in any way since all a bubba is is a reverse mirage set from crossbody. The move described above is a backside symposium toe blur. The second dex is the one that is symposium. I don't know where your getting this toe set bubba. If it is in a symposium toe blur, which part is it. Later From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 17 18:36:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA32097 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:36:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31132; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:58:26 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id wJEJa01404 (14401); Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:57:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:57:06 EDT Subject: Re: Re: [freestyle] Another move To: jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu CC: PHoEtOiD34@aol.com, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 8/15/99 9:56:08 PM, jriely@mail.coin.missouri.edu wrote: <> Sorry... :whimper:.. I be quiet now... ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 17 18:37:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA32110 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:37:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25682 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:32:57 -0700 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (209-107-90-078.chicago.verio.net [209.107.90.78]) by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA13061; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:32:45 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: copyset@pop.interaccess.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199908132207.SAA28767@rac4.wam.umd.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:36:29 -0600 To: Vince Bradley , freestyle@footbag.org From: "Scott Davidson" Subject: Re: [freestyle] bye to finals Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Vince! >the notion of a previous world champion havign a bye to finals in performance >oriented competition is not a bad idea. > >in any case- no matter if the player was eliminated or not- it is an >attraction to spectators to see the previous world champion perform. Yes. However, I must side with the group of folks who advocate working for it, and getting your own arse into finals. A little story here... in '98 finals of freestyle in Montreal, I went out there as top seed, and all day on finals day, I visualized and meditated my performance... and I "dumbed it down" to be easier and to "make sure" I reduced my drop count in finals. As I was getting ready, I saw Teva Dave (sorry, I can't remember your new improved BAP name, Dave) walk by with this old torn-up ratty shirt that said "There are no shortcuts to becoming a champion" (it actually had a picture of a mountain on it, so it may have really said something more like "there are no shortcuts to the top" or something, but my interpretation was "there are no shortcuts to becoming a champion", but anyway...) and I read it, but it didn't sink in until afterwards, the "sign" he had given me... I went out and performed, dropped the bag 5 times, twice off the stage and totally spaunched the easier version of my routine. I later realized what I had read on Daves shirt, and this year promised myself to stick to my guns and not simplify my performance in finals, because "there are no shortcuts to becoming a champion." (Moral of the story: I took a shortcut, and it didn't pay off.). P.S. This year, I didn't hold back in finals, no shortcuts. So I would say, let each player make it to finals on their own merits each year, starting fresh. And if there is a year where there are 20 new shredders that come out of nowhere and knock all the regulars out of finals, then so be it... that guarantees the best of the best in finals, and the best show for the spectators (and the best value for the sponsors... isn't that what it's really all about, anyway?). >i woudl recommend asking any previous world champion to perform with the >finalists. Now that would be interesting... envision if you will, the year 2033, old man Scott D. is going to finals without any other competition to prove skills, and he goes out with his walker and shows off that toe delay... he might not even remember it by then. (I plan to be doing torques or better when I am over 65, but I digress) Now, inviting past world champions to do demo's on stage would be GREAT (I would love to be 70 years old and shredding as an exhibition in finals), but in competition, I don't see it. Continue to use the results from previous years worlds for seeding purposes, and that will suffice. No rule changes here. IMHO. Thanks, Dave, for that bit of inspiration... "There are no shortcuts to becoming a champion." See ya! Scott D. Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 17 18:38:02 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA32120 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:38:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from baygate.bayarea.net (baygate.bayarea.net [204.71.212.2]) by postman.bayarea.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA31516 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 01:26:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jboy@bayarea.net) Received: from gram (205-219-66-206.bayarea.net [205.219.66.206]) by baygate.bayarea.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA05001 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 01:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001701bee88a$6ff34f60$ce42dbcd@gram> Reply-To: "Jboy" From: "Jboy Gran" To: References: <199908162329.QAA30458@email.footbag.org> Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #712 Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 01:27:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > < Sorry to ask again, but there's another move I just hit but I have no > freaking idea what it is; toe>op in[dex]>[no plant while] op in [dex]>op > toe[del]. I'm thinking symposium toe blur...????? thanks again > Windsen Pan > >> > > if there's no plant I think that implies that the move is toe set bubba...I > don't know how to describe it in terms of symposium.. > > ~Bryan You, my friend, are tripping. this move is a symposium toe-blur, also known as a voodoo. I think Tuan invented it. If not he mastered it, as I've seen him hit pogo-paradox voodoo. Bubba is completely different. It is a same side reverse mirage from clipper: clip>op out>op toe del Jboy From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 17 18:53:41 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA32191 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:53:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1304.mail.yahoo.com (web1304.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.154]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA30550 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:04:06 -0700 Message-ID: <19990817180714.12117.rocketmail@web1304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.191.169.19] by web1304.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:07:14 PDT Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:07:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Subject: Re: [freestyle] re: pixie double leg over To: KeN Somolinos , Freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ken S. wrote: >...While > I know people already > told him this, it sort of surprised me that nobody > told him the "name" name > of pixie dlo, smog. >... > Blurry DLO: Fog > hence, pixie dlo: Smear. > Thanks for mentioning that Ken...although I think you typo-ed and meant to write "hence, pixie dlo: Smog". By the time this hits the list I'll bet 5 other people have told you :-) Now you have me racking my brain trying to envision the difference between Fog and Haze. I always go by the rule that I think Derric brought up...Blurry you preform your next dex with opposite leg and stepping you perform next dex with same leg. That would, IMHO, make haze a lot more difficult to hit than Fog...not that I'm hitting either of them ;-) I guess it's just whatever motion you're more used to. You probably hit these two moves Ken, don't you? What do you think is harder to hit? I'm just curious... See ya, Jane From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 17 19:21:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA32254 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:21:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f167.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.167]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA31477 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:30:39 -0700 Received: (qmail 39640 invoked by uid 0); 17 Aug 1999 18:30:05 -0000 Message-ID: <19990817183005.39639.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.143 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:30:04 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.143] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] re: pixie double leg over Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:30:04 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jane wrote: >That would, IMHO, make haze a lot more difficult to hit than Fog...not that >I'm hitting either of them ;-) I guess it's just whatever motion you're >more used to. You probably hit these two moves Ken, don't you? What do >you think is harder to hit? Not that I was the one asked, but I would say that most stepping moves are at least as hard as their blurry counterparts, and often harder like Blurrier vs. Blurriest. Which brings up an interesting point. Standard mantra now seems to be that the Add system is a system of counting up add elements, now can somebody who is hitting both fog and haze please explain to me where the extra element is. Both moves seem to me about equally difficult, and both feel a whole lot like they have an identical number of elements yet fog is 5 haze only 4. Hmmmmm. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 17 20:56:31 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA32352 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:56:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02174 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:56:22 -0700 Received: from [209.107.90.78] (209-107-90-078.chicago.verio.net [209.107.90.78]) by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA07305; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:56:07 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199908132227.SAA29593@rac4.wam.umd.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:03:36 -0600 To: Vince Bradley , freestyle@footbag.org From: Scott Davidson Subject: Re: [freestyle] the champ speaks Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Vince! At 6:27 PM -0400 8/13/99, Vince Bradley wrote: >if we reduce the number of points in the presentation by quantifying it, >then we aren't merely quantifying it and removing bias, >we also end up weighting the comp cards more. The two parts of presentation I recommend quantifying are the logical ones, and are almost "composition" elements. Linking is much more a composition issue than a presentation one (I think it just kind-of got lumped in with presentation a long time ago and no one ever questioned it, and there it sat)... and Planes/Travel is similar to a composition element in that it can be objectively quantified. I don't see it making the comp cards weigh more, just that the "composition style elements" are more accurately (and verifiably) counted (and by people who are dedicated to doing ONLY that, making it that much more accurate). My experience on the Linking part of the presentation card is that judges actually guess, based on what they remember, who was the best linker (and give them the highest score)... I think it should be more carefully and cannonically interpreted from empiracle evidence (remove the guesswork). The weight will remain the same, just a way to more accurately judge the elements, and remove two fifths of the work from the presentation panel, thereby decreasing the amount of time it takes to judge a single performance. >what i remember most between the scores of the players in the final round >was that the player who hit his routine best, had obviously done so. >he outperformed the others most notably IN THE COMP CARDS, and >that was where the greatest difference was made. Yet another reason for looking at those results for freestyle, the detailed ones. >and again, i think it may actually be very important to use a system >that DOES NOT value current trends in development of the art it is meant to >judge. simply because it asks more of us. it asks us to do something >we aren't inclined to do. Huh? See ya! Scott Davidson Enlightener. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 17 22:02:53 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA32417 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:02:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1306.mail.yahoo.com (web1306.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.156]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA03145 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:33:36 -0700 Message-ID: <19990817203526.15268.rocketmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.191.169.19] by web1306.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:35:26 PDT Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:35:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Subject: Re: [freestyle] re: pixie double leg over To: Andrew McCargar , freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andrew wrote: > please explain > to me where the extra element is. Both moves seem to > me about equally > difficult, and both feel a whole lot like they have > an identical number of > elements yet fog is 5 haze only 4. Hmmmmm. > > -Andrew Sounds to me like fog gets 5 because it has a x-body counterpart. I could be wrong... -Jane From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 18 05:07:25 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA00410 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 05:07:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from nccn2.nccn.net (IDENT:root@nccn2.nccn.net [209.79.220.12]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16464 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 21:13:31 -0700 Received: from left (tc3-216.nccn.net [209.79.221.216]) by nccn2.nccn.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/*rGs* 99.07.16-) with SMTP id QAA31673 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:25:44 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01bee907$684137a0$d8dd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] 10 Thinks I Like About Footbag Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:17:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >1. you can play it naked and alone, unlike most other sports Yeah Yeah, no shorts equals over the head blur sets. >2. it's portable, you can take a bag and shoes anywhere That's very true. I never woulda gotten good without a footbag in my pocket at all times throughout highschool. >3. Good freestyle attracts a crowd Sure does. >4. It's a positive sport; non-contact, and minimal competition (note: I >don't play net.) Very posotive. People are trying to get too hard ass about it though. >5. The pros are accessible by your everyday player Yup >6. The pros will teach you how to bring your game to the next level with a >big smile Yes, expecially Rippen and Kenny. Great hacking with you guys at regionals. >7. These rollicking discussions! NO, actually most of them suck! >8. you've[set]>just>GOTTA[verb]>love>job's>notation>[drop] Yeppo gleppo >9. facilities to play are minimum, so it's not a big production for the >everyday player true true >10. Chicks dig skinny sweaty guys with no shirts, SHORT shorts, and rank >smelling feet. I know!. Isn't it weird. They seriously love us! >That's my little brain excretion for the day >matt cross Thanks for the list. ShredOnLawnLON From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 18 05:58:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA00481 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 05:58:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f80.hotmail.com [209.185.131.143]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA17998 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:00:06 -0700 Received: (qmail 21092 invoked by uid 0); 18 Aug 1999 02:12:54 -0000 Message-ID: <19990818021254.21091.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 144.205.91.104 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:12:53 PDT X-Originating-IP: [144.205.91.104] From: "Brendan Erskine" To: derric@dallasfootbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] records - again Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:12:53 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Now, I know that someone was witness to these records at some point in >time. If you would let me know, or let me know if they have been >broken, I would really appreciate it. If I don't hear any kind of >verification on a record, I will take it off of the list until it can be >verified. That means that the datw record might be 5 for a while. Who >knows? If everyone tells me of the best that they know of, everything >will go smoothly. Brendan from Melbourne, Im sorry i haven't seen Lynton hit 19 DATW's, but i i'll trust his word. I have however seen him hit 9 atom smashers which i believe is a record in itself. He tells me that he has hit 15 though. I applaude the construction of a records list, apart from giving people some recognition, it gives people like Lynton some encouragement considering we don't have any good players to kick with in Australia and motivation is hard to muster. The enlighteners probable visit to Australia next year will certainly be an eye opener. Keep kick'n Brendan Erskine (M.F.C.) From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 18 05:58:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA00485 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 05:58:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from postoffice2.direcpc.com (mail.direcpc.com [198.77.116.30]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18000 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:00:08 -0700 Received: from hh1114112 ([206.71.114.112]) by postoffice2.direcpc.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-45425U50000L50000S0) with SMTP id AAA12000 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 21:46:19 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990817214532.009a7d70@mail.direcpc.com> X-Sender: mavery@mail.direcpc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 21:47:22 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Matt Avery Subject: [freestyle] move names Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey shreddas! With all the talk going on about smog and double legover moves, I wanted to get a couple questions in: Can anyone give me the name (if any) for the following moves: pixi drifter- blurry drifter- pdx eggbeater- blurry eggbeater- Thanks much. Matt From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 18 06:47:23 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA00616 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 06:47:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com ([209.185.241.238]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA19699 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:52:06 -0700 Received: (qmail 59389 invoked by uid 0); 17 Aug 1999 22:44:49 -0000 Message-ID: <19990817224449.59388.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.188.198.172 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:44:48 PDT X-Originating-IP: [205.188.198.172] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] re: pixie double leg over Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:44:48 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Everybody! Thanks for pointing out my error Jane, I did mean to say "hence, pixied DLO is smog." Really I did. As to which is harder, Haze or fog, my vote is for fog. I really feel a pdx when I try fog. Then again, haze involves my stronger blurry set, and my strong dlo, whereas Fog uses my weaker blurry set. Eric Wulff hits fog on both sides, and he once said on the list that he feels fog is significantly harder than Haze. Anybody hitting toe fog out there? Sunil? On a side note, Jboy wrote that a toe blur is also called a voodoo. This is incorrect, as voodoo is a ps blur, and significantly harder than symp toe blur. Then again, Noah Dubreuil makes them both look really easy. When I told a friend of mine that a symp toe blur was like VooDoo's younger brother, they called symp toe blur Voodoo Chile, which i thought was pretty funny. Oh, is Voodoo named after Tuan? Like Vu-doo? See ya! Ken CF Somolinos nyfA From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 18 15:33:56 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00910 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:33:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from inetsrv.callplus.co.nz (mail.callplus.co.nz [202.27.103.146]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21537 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:23:26 -0700 Received: by inetsrv.callplus.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:36:21 +1200 Message-ID: <8186832B88B9D211959E002035F37823318521@inetsrv.callplus.co.nz> From: Adrian Dick To: "'Andrew McCargar'" , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] re: pixie double leg over Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:36:19 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org The Fog has a paradox element in it, Haze doesnt. The 2nd Dexterity of The Fog is paradox (its kinda like a paradox mirage shoved in the middle). I find Haze easier than the fog, but I fell victim to the add system and gave up on haze for the glory of an extra add heh heh heh. -----Original Message----- From: Andrew McCargar [mailto:damocles_schwert@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 1999 06:30 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] re: pixie double leg over Jane wrote: >That would, IMHO, make haze a lot more difficult to hit than Fog...not that >I'm hitting either of them ;-) I guess it's just whatever motion you're >more used to. You probably hit these two moves Ken, don't you? What do >you think is harder to hit? Not that I was the one asked, but I would say that most stepping moves are at least as hard as their blurry counterparts, and often harder like Blurrier vs. Blurriest. Which brings up an interesting point. Standard mantra now seems to be that the Add system is a system of counting up add elements, now can somebody who is hitting both fog and haze please explain to me where the extra element is. Both moves seem to me about equally difficult, and both feel a whole lot like they have an identical number of elements yet fog is 5 haze only 4. Hmmmmm. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 18 15:39:15 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00924 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:39:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f222.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.222]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA32414 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 05:58:28 -0700 Received: (qmail 15057 invoked by uid 0); 18 Aug 1999 12:57:56 -0000 Message-ID: <19990818125756.15056.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.71 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 05:57:56 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.71] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: RE: [freestyle] re: pixie double leg over Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 05:57:56 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Adrian Dick wrote: >The Fog has a paradox element in it, Haze doesnt. This is aperantly the point I didn't manage to make clear, why does fog have paradox and haze not? Try to forget for a molment that you have ever heard of paradox, think about the moves, same number of dexes, similar movements and I would say they both have difficult if disimilar dex windows after the set. Fog has a difficult window after the set, haze has a difficult momentum change. Paradox is suposed to describe the difficulty of dex windows, better work on that deffinition again, or perhaps it's time to admit that dex/uns/del/bod/x-bod are not the only crusial move elements. clear as mud? -Andrew From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 18 17:09:34 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01228 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:09:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04251; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:10:12 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id lJAIa22757 (4380); Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <119c0882.24ec34bf@aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:09:35 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] move names To: mavery@direcpc.com, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 8/17/99 9:11:18 PM, mavery@direcpc.com wrote: <> bedwetter. ~Bryan From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 18 19:52:07 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA01386 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 19:52:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f73.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.73]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA08834 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:01:51 -0700 Received: (qmail 78303 invoked by uid 0); 18 Aug 1999 19:01:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19990818190113.78302.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:01:13 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.62] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Adidas Stan Smiths Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:01:13 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" Out of curiosity, I was wondering if anyone has >kicked with Adidas Stan >Smiths. OK I read this and tried to bust out some research on this shoe... My goal was to find out if this "Stan Smith" was the shoe that the Finlanders(I actually only saw Antti Lehtovirta in them, but supposedly a couple Fins had them) were wearing at worlds. No dice on my search. So, I come to the trusty listserve... Someone has got to remember these, they looked almost exactly like the old style of Lavers except with three stripes on the inside and outside of the upper--perfect substitutes for the more modern and seemingly less kickable new style of Lavers. So, if any Fins' are reading this or anyone else who can remember if those shoes were called "Stan Smith", please write in a reply. If that isn't the name, and you can remember the name, please give it also. Thanks loads. Later, Ian D. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 18 22:17:16 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01566 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:17:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1303.mail.yahoo.com (web1303.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.153]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA12814 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:23:35 -0700 Message-ID: <19990818212839.7280.rocketmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.191.169.19] by web1303.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:28:39 PDT Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:28:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Subject: Re: [freestyle] Adidas Stan Smiths To: Ian Dubman , freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ian wrote: > My goal > was to find out if this "Stan Smith" was the shoe > that the Finlanders(I > actually only saw Antti Lehtovirta in them, but > supposedly a couple Fins had > them) were wearing at worlds. Yeah, I remember asking Antti about them. They actually were Rod Lavers even though they had the 3 strips on the side. They were made out of a mesh too, although, it was not the same mesh as the Rod Lavers we can get in the US. The mesh was more like soccer jersey style mesh (for lack of a better name). I remember seeing on the Addidas tag on the top of the tongue a bunch of text...there was a special edition name for this Rod Laver or something. If Antti or another Fin is on this list, I'm sure they know what I'm talking about. I wonder if this Laver has been replaced by the new one as well.(??) Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 18 22:17:20 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01571 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:17:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from vivid.Vivid.com (vivid.vivid.com [207.105.222.252]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09920 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:41:17 -0700 Received: from vivid.com (gwvivid2.platinum.com [207.105.222.53]) by vivid.Vivid.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA05720; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:28:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BB0C87.38B20DD8@vivid.com> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:44:15 -0700 From: Ethan Klein X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ian Dubman CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Adidas Stan Smiths References: <19990818190113.78302.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ian and list, I think that the three-stripe version of the Laver is the Ilia Nastase, mostly available in Europe. Very stylie. Peace - Ethan ps - sunil hit flurry into toe blur last night. Torch hit Lotus on his first friggin try.... argghh!!! Ian Dubman wrote: > >From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" Out of curiosity, I was wondering if anyone has > >kicked with Adidas Stan > >Smiths. > > OK I read this and tried to bust out some research on this shoe... My goal > was to find out if this "Stan Smith" was the shoe that the Finlanders(I > actually only saw Antti Lehtovirta in them, but supposedly a couple Fins had > them) were wearing at worlds. No dice on my search. > So, I come to the trusty listserve... Someone has got to remember these, > they looked almost exactly like the old style of Lavers except with three > stripes on the inside and outside of the upper--perfect substitutes for the > more modern and seemingly less kickable new style of Lavers. So, if any > Fins' are reading this or anyone else who can remember if those shoes were > called "Stan Smith", please write in a reply. If that isn't the name, and > you can remember the name, please give it also. Thanks loads. > Later, > Ian D. -- |!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!| Ethan Louis Klein vivid studios ethan@vivid.com From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 19 02:15:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA01746 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 02:15:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from vivid.Vivid.com (vivid.vivid.com [207.105.222.252]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16950 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:58:23 -0700 Received: from vivid.com (gwvivid2.platinum.com [207.105.222.53]) by vivid.Vivid.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA13197; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BB48C9.3ABD3D96@vivid.com> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:59:24 -0700 From: Ethan Klein X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Avery , freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Lotus Explained References: <19990818190113.78302.qmail@hotmail.com> <4.1.19990818194546.009ae860@mail.direcpc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Matt, Frank, Adrian and all other intriqued souls, I think that Lotus is a spinning drifter. it has the same relationship to vortex as marius has to mobius. It's extra cool looking and impossibly difficult (for me at least).... although I heard that the disturbingly quiet Josh Penney has been hitting it?? - Ethan |!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!| Ethan Louis Klein vivid studios ethan@vivid.com From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 19 02:15:39 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA01756 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 02:15:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web215.mail.yahoo.com (web215.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.115]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA16984 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:59:18 -0700 Message-ID: <19990818235309.197.rocketmail@web215.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.245.136.34] by web215.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:53:09 PDT Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:53:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Mosley Subject: Re: [freestyle] Adidas Stan Smiths To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey- --- Ethan wrote: > I think that the three-stripe version of the Laver > is the Ilia Nastase, mostly > available in Europe. Very stylie. --- Jane wrote: > They were made out of a mesh > too, > although, it was not the same mesh as the Rod Lavers > we can get in the US. The mesh was more like soccer > jersey style mesh (for lack of a better name). I was in France last week and I noticed that a chain sporting goods store called Decathalon carries a shoe called the Addidas Nastase that fits both these descriptions. It had the stripes that Ethan mentions, and the upper had a weave with staggered oval-shaped holes (like the soccer jersey mesh that Jane mentions). The heel tab had the Addidas logo plus the word "Nastase" on it. The sole of the shoe looked very similar to the Laver. The toe box might have been a tiny bit smaller. The outside of the upper looked smoother and less beefy than the Laver, but the inside of the upper looked stiffer. I didn't have my Lavers on at the time so I couldn't make exact comparisons, though. It looked like a good freestyle shoe. Hope this helps. Rob. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 19 02:15:41 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA01761 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 02:15:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18214 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:57:23 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990819005716.XLT18973.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:57:16 -0700 Message-ID: <37BB58B4.2BA56869@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:07:00 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] re: pixie double leg over References: <19990818125756.15056.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Andrew McCargar wrote: > why does fog have > paradox and haze not? The current definition of paradox has something to do with an S-shaped motion of the dex foot. Or a "double hip rotation". Though stepping mirage is harder for me than a blur, I have to admit that a blur (or pdx mirage) does have that double hip twist, s-motion type of thing going on. This little requirement for paradox is also what limits reverse whirls and dynos from picking up a pdx add. Fair, no. But, the archaic add system has many flaws. Paradox is a paradox in that it works sometimes, but you can't really define it. > think about the moves, same number of dexes, similar movements > and I would say they both have difficult if disimilar dex windows after the > set. Fog has a difficult window after the set, haze has a difficult momentum > change. Paradox is suposed to describe the difficulty of dex windows, better > work on that deffinition again, or perhaps it's time to admit that > dex/uns/del/bod/x-bod are not the only crusial move elements. Let's leave the paradox definition alone... I remember the paradox debate that went on longer than this whole DLS thing :) But, I think you are on to something with needing to define difficulty based on windows and momentum changes. And, you say, "perhaps it's time to admit that dex/uns/del/bod/x-bod are not the only crusial move elements." Preach on! Adds are old. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 19 02:15:28 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA01751 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 02:15:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f190.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.190]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA14169 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:03:12 -0700 Received: (qmail 99920 invoked by uid 0); 18 Aug 1999 22:02:35 -0000 Message-ID: <19990818220235.99919.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.206.120.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:02:35 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.206.120.62] From: "Ian Dubman" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Adidas Stan Smiths Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:02:35 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ethan and all, Thank you. I found a place to order the Nastase Millenium(and a women's Millenium Laver for women--for the ladies out there...Jane). But, there is no picture available in the order form. I would think that this would be the newer models of the shoes(as the milenium just came upon us), but I have no clue. Are the new models of the men's Lavers(the ones Rippin' had on at worlds) called Milleniums?? FINS, please help us sorry americans figure out this dilemma. Thank you, again. BTW, maybe the midwest is getting to my brain, but what the hell is a Lotus?? (Besides a pretty flower and a badass sports car...) Late, Ian PS Jeremiah, where did you see a pic of Stan Smiths?? From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 19 06:23:01 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA02180 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 06:23:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from admin.cgocable.net (admin.cgocable.net [24.226.1.21]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24983 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:30:40 -0700 Received: from [24.226.9.44] (cgowave-9-44.cgocable.net [24.226.9.44]) by admin.cgocable.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15555 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 01:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908190530.BAA15555@admin.cgocable.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 01:41:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Adidas Stan Smiths From: "Neil Bearse" To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey all. i was wrong earlier when i said that the stan smiths were the ones with the rubber on the toe. the ones I was thinking of then were the Adidas Superstars. those are no good for freestyle the stan smith is not the shoe that you are thinking of..... its nothing like a Laver. it is a leather shoe, with no toe box.... a very stylin shoe... but no good for freestyle. all the shoe stores round here (Ontario) carry them, i saw them at Footlocker. i went down just to check em out.... any one know if these Nastase's are gonna be available in Canada? gotta love this retro shoe craze, Lavers are now available in most Athletes Worlds that ive seen..... sweeeeeetness. only in green though..... Adios Neil From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 19 14:14:47 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02522 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:14:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05564 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 06:01:42 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA11760; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:00:54 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:00:53 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Ian Dubman cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Adidas Stan Smiths In-Reply-To: <19990818220235.99919.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > PS Jeremiah, where did you see a pic of Stan Smiths?? this one has a good picture of them http://sneakers.pair.com/csm-stan.htm this one has a really crappy picture that is small http://sneaker-nation.com/freakjustin.html later From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 19 14:14:44 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02517 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:14:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f240.hotmail.com [207.82.251.131]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA01304 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 04:14:26 -0700 Received: (qmail 44161 invoked by uid 0); 19 Aug 1999 11:13:55 -0000 Message-ID: <19990819111355.44160.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 193.229.159.4 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 04:13:55 PDT X-Originating-IP: [193.229.159.4] From: "MIKA KOISTINEN" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Adidas Stan Smiths Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 04:13:55 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Ian Dubman wrote: was to find out if this "Stan Smith" was the shoe that the Finlanders(I actually only saw Antti Lehtovirta in them, but supposedly a couple Fins had them) were wearing at worlds. No dice on my search. Hello , Shreders Antti Lehtovirtas freestyleshoes (those old style lavers, with blue stripes) was Adidas Ilija Nastase.Adidas Stan Smith is different. Stan smiths doesn't work in freestyle :-) (my oppinion). later, The Iceman From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 20 05:07:25 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03537 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 05:07:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Message-ID: <19990819210005.20419.rocketmail@web210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.108.197.65] by web210.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:00:05 PDT Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:00:05 -0700 (PDT) From: cory current Subject: [freestyle] WANTED: Your stories from Worlds To: freestyle@email.footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey everybody, As I sit here and dream about finishing my article for the next issue of Kickers Quarterly, it occured (sp?) to me that I should ask the people directly for info. So.....if you had something funny happen to you at Worlds, or if you saw something funny, or just witnessed something that the general footbag population should know about, type it up, and send it my way....and it could appear in that next issue. I myself was a little busy throughout the week, so I didn't really get to run around and be my typical 'journalist' self, so I have a feeling I missed out on a lot of fun things. So again, if you've got one of those 'legendary' "Mika-Puka" video tapes from *THIS* year's Worlds, that's what I need to hear about. Thanks in advance, === Cory Current------------------------------------------------ Kickers Quarterly Journalist http://www.schwafootbag.com ------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 20 05:07:11 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03532 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 05:07:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f196.hotmail.com [216.32.181.196]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA09405 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:48:46 -0700 Received: (qmail 43730 invoked by uid 0); 19 Aug 1999 15:48:15 -0000 Message-ID: <19990819154815.43729.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.151.225.201 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:48:14 PDT X-Originating-IP: [205.151.225.201] From: "Danny Cardonne" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] records Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:48:14 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi, i write about the records of dyno... Marc Conti told me that he was there when Steve Kramer did is records on osis and he say that Steve finish by doing 10 dyno... I don't say that 3 is not good, i can't hit dyno on my weak side so my "record" is 1...but 10 dyno, wow! Danny From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 20 18:02:13 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04115 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:02:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f73.hotmail.com [209.185.131.136]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA00344 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 00:16:37 -0700 Received: (qmail 32333 invoked by uid 0); 20 Aug 1999 07:16:03 -0000 Message-ID: <19990820071603.32332.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 203.43.147.206 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 00:16:01 PDT X-Originating-IP: [203.43.147.206] From: "Lynton Stephens" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Consec records Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 00:16:01 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi Derric & all - I have NOT hit 19 double ATW, only 17, B's memory ain't so good :) I guess rippin is still the man ... I have hit (skoolin in my garage, no witness but me): 15 atom smashers, 16 fairy mirages, 5 symposium eggbeaters, 9 diving mirages, 4 symposium toe blurs, 12 tarrages, 8 double mirages, 3 `witchdoctors' (atomic symposium mirage). There it is, for anyone who actually cares ? Tweak up the dial on style!! Lynton - M.F.C. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 20 18:02:17 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04120 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:02:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Ezra Kim Received: (from ezra_kim@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EJF3YJNZ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 05:40:04 EDT To: freestyle@email.footbag.org Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 02:42:23 -0700 Subject: [freestyle] footbaggers in irvine? Message-ID: <19990822.024223.4398.0.ezra_kim@juno.com> References: <199908192329.QAA02647@email.footbag.org> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3,5-8 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hi, sorry to bother you all on the list, i was wondering if there are any footbaggers from Irvine California? i.e. UC Irvine. im headed down there for college and if there were a player down there that would be great. thanks, - --Ez From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 20 18:02:51 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04136 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:02:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from nccn2.nccn.net (IDENT:root@nccn2.nccn.net [209.79.220.12]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15656 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:34:00 -0700 Received: from left (tc2-179.nccn.net [209.79.221.179]) by nccn2.nccn.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/*rGs* 99.07.16-) with SMTP id JAA10130 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:35:14 -0700 Message-ID: <001101beeb29$8f838420$b3dd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: "footbag" Subject: [freestyle] records Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:07:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Danny wrote that Marc Conti said Steve Kramer finished with 10 dyno's when doing his 186 osis. Right? That seems odd to try to hit dyno when you're going for an osis record but I can totally believe that he hit 10 dyno. That seems like a much more reasonable record than wimpy three! Congradulations Steve. You set two WORLD records in one string totally way over 500ADDS!!! ShredOnLon From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 21 08:31:19 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04966 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 08:31:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Message-ID: <19990820225905.28735.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.216.156.245] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:59:05 PDT Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:59:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamez Risden Subject: [freestyle] move question To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello people, I need to know what this move is called and if anyone can give me any tips on hitting it. sorry but i dont know how to use that jobs notation so im gonna have to describe it my way. I set the bag up from a left toe stall, cricle it twice from out to in with my right leg, then catch it on a clipper stall with the setting foot. Ive almost hit this move but i cant get my clipper foot down fast enough. oh yeah i just learnd the whirl i was so proud of myself:) later rizz From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 21 08:31:22 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04971 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 08:31:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from footbag (i130i2hel.dial.kolumbus.fi [193.229.126.130]) by mail3.kolumbus.fi (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id AAA18311 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:56:06 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <029f01beeb56$3b3386e0$b07ee5c1@footbag.pp.kolumbus.fi> From: "Justin Sexton" To: Subject: [freestyle] Adidas Stan Smiths Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:51:59 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, >OK I read this and tried to bust out some research on this shoe... My goal >was to find out if this "Stan Smith" was the shoe that the Finlanders(I >actually only saw Antti Lehtovirta in them, but supposedly a couple Fins had >them) were wearing at worlds. No dice on my search. >So, I come to the trusty listserve... Someone has got to remember these, >they looked almost exactly like the old style of Lavers except with three >stripes on the inside and outside of the upper--perfect substitutes for the >more modern and seemingly less kickable new style of Lavers. So, if any >Fins' are reading this or anyone else who can remember if those shoes were >called "Stan Smith", please write in a reply. If that isn't the name, and >you can remember the name, please give it also. The three-stripe version of the Laver is the Ilia Nastase, Antti Lehtovirta found them while he was living in France for three months last spring. It was sunday when we stopped on our way to worlds to Paris so all the shops that might have had them in Paris were closed =(. >I found a place to order the Nastase Millenium(and a women's >Millenium Laver for women--for the ladies out there...Jane). But, there is >no picture available in the order form. I would think that this would be >the newer models of the shoes(as the milenium just came upon us), but I have >no clue. Are the new models of the men's Lavers(the ones Rippin' had on at >worlds) called Milleniums?? FINS, please help us sorry americans figure out >this dilemma. Do not get the newer Millenium version if you are buying them for freestyle (they actually look cool enough to were in public). They suck for freestyle. The difference is very much the same as in Rod Laver models. Justin Sexton From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 21 08:31:25 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04976 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 08:31:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01403 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:20:27 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990821052022.SKXA6517.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:20:22 -0700 Message-ID: <37BE3974.A8C522BB@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:30:28 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] update to the records list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all. I have been getting quite a few updates to the record list, so I think you will find it worth your while to give it a look. If you go to http://www.dallasfootbag.org and click on records, it should bring up the most recent version. If not, reload the page. Between Sunil and Lynton, there isn't much room for improvement on any toe moves :) Way to go everyone. Keep those records coming in. If you see a move that isn't on the list, let me know. Later. -Derric DFC From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 21 08:31:50 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04996 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 08:31:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f254.hotmail.com [209.185.130.170]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA29111 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:36:51 -0700 Received: (qmail 57701 invoked by uid 0); 21 Aug 1999 01:36:17 -0000 Message-ID: <19990821013617.57700.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 203.43.147.203 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:36:15 PDT X-Originating-IP: [203.43.147.203] From: "Lynton Stephens" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] Consec records Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:36:15 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi freestylers- Tu-Rendez-Vu said: >ummm i was wondering when you say you have hit 15 atom smashers, do >you >mean atom smasher to atom smasher to atom smasher...etc... or >do you mean >try one atom smasher hit it, try antoher atom smasher >hit it. >justwondering. keep ripping it up!!!! No, back to back. L to R to L, etc. And Ken - I should have explained better what I meant by "witchdoctor", it is a backside symposium atom smasher. TOE > OP OUT > (no plant while) OP IN > OP TOE You can hit this, no? Adrian Dick also hits it a lot (into a paradon swirl - nice!) It can also be hit paradox. Some other atom smasher variations are: * TOE > OP OUT > (?back) SPIN > OP IN > OP TOE Atomic set inspinning mirage, set from right toe, atomic set, clockwise spin into a mirage, what I call `Neutron Smasher'. * TOE > OP OUT > (DUCK) > OP IN > OP TOE Atom smasher with a duck between the dexes, aka `Skull Smasher'. * Atomic DLO: TOE > OP OUT > OP IN > OP OUT > SAME TOE Shred onwards, stylers! Lynton From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 21 17:41:50 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05490 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 17:41:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13642 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 05:53:36 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA09324; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 07:53:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 07:53:29 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Jamez Risden cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move question In-Reply-To: <19990820225905.28735.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I need to know what this move is called and if anyone can give me any > tips on hitting it. sorry but i dont know how to use that jobs notation jobs notation is really easy and if you learned it (which would mabye take 5 minutes) you could find this move on the moves list. http://www.footbag.org/movelist/ > so im gonna have to describe it my way. I set the bag up from a left > toe stall, cricle it twice from out to in with my right leg, then catch > it on a clipper stall with the setting foot. Ive almost hit this move it is a paradon toe > op out > same out > op clip > but i cant get my clipper foot down fast enough. If you jump during the second dex then your foot will be there to catch the bag when you land. Watch some video of people doing paradons and other double over down type moves and see how they do them, then mimic. Later From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 21 17:41:55 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05495 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 17:41:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16744 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 08:49:12 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990821154910.VXBH6517.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 08:49:10 -0700 Message-ID: <37BECCD9.8B030B28@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:59:21 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] move question References: <19990820225905.28735.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jamez Risden wrote: > sorry but i dont know how to use that jobs notation > so im gonna have to describe it my way. You really should learn Job's notation. It is EASY. Go to http://footbag.org/movelist/5-minute-notation.html and spend 5 minutes of your life making things super easy to understand. > I set the bag up from a left > toe stall, cricle it twice from out to in with my right leg, then catch > it on a clipper stall with the setting foot. This would be toe > op OUT > same OUT > op clip The name of the move is paradon. I've been working on that one to - Sunil can give you some good advice. Also try: double over down - toe > same OUT > same OUT > op clip barfly - clip > same OUT > same OUT > op clip and down double - clip > op OUT > same OUT > op clip > Ive almost hit this move > but i cant get my clipper foot down fast enough. Like I said, I'm just learning the move, so I probably won't be able to give you great advice. The thing that I concentrate on is just the first dexterity. The second dex is really small - like a butterfly. So, after the first dex, get your clipper ready to catch the bag (while you are starting the second dex). Make sense? Wait 'til I get it a little better, and I'll be able to see what I'm doing to make it work. Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Sat Aug 21 17:42:19 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05510 for freestyle-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 17:42:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15546 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 07:57:06 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zLSFa05141 (3924) for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:56:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6abd6520.24f0181d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:56:29 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Weakside To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Any tips for strengthing your weakside other than practice, practice, practice? OH, anyone going to Funtastik that is coming through or near Pittsburgh? A ride would be greatly appreciated cause my rents suck. Thanks. Owen "Still Waiting For That Lousy WFA Membership to Arrive in the Mail" Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 23 07:09:29 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07484 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:09:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f222.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.222]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA23148 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:39:41 -0700 Received: (qmail 3287 invoked by uid 0); 21 Aug 1999 20:39:10 -0000 Message-ID: <19990821203910.3286.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.197.176 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:39:09 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.197.176] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: mfcshred@hotmail.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Consec records Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:39:09 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Lynton and stylers! >And Ken - I should have explained better what I meant by "witchdoctor", it >is a backside symposium atom smasher. >TOE > OP OUT > (no plant while) OP IN > OP TOE Keen, I always wondered if this had a name. Oh, and adding on to your list of atom smasher variations, there's also wifebeater, or atomic eggbeater. I don't know if anybody hits this, but Richie Abshire and the San Diego crew assured me that's its name. Two more things. Can anyone hit toe fog? And if everybody claims the ripwalk record is so low, why doesn't somebody really try and set a good new one? Or how about stepping butterfly? Oh Derric, the record for eclipses is missing from the site. I saw Alex Zerbe hit 17 at worlds, but i think Noah still has the record at 24. Good work everybody, keep shredding, pushing yourselves, teaching beginners, and having fun with the sport. CF nyfa From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 23 07:09:45 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07489 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:09:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Ezra Kim Received: (from ezra_kim@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EJKLZ4MR; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:35:44 EDT To: freestyle@email.footbag.org Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:35:13 -0700 Subject: [freestyle] some tricks Message-ID: <19990823.113758.4774.0.ezra_kim@juno.com> References: <199908212329.QAA05267@email.footbag.org> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5,7-10 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hi, . i have been tryin to skool the swirl for a long time already. i've seen it on Tricks of The Trade n things, i slow moed some stuff before. i got the motion, but i stil can't hit it, i only hit it once which is out of a gazillion attempts (no exaggeration there heh). do you guys have any helpful tips or tricks that you used to learn the swirl? - thanks, --ez From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 23 07:10:47 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07506 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:10:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu (jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu [198.209.253.1]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05521 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 02:50:25 -0700 Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA22749; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 04:50:10 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 04:50:10 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Owen Parrish cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Weakside In-Reply-To: <6abd6520.24f0181d@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > Any tips for strengthing your weakside other than practice, practice, > practice? Yes, analyze how you do moves on your strong side and try to mimic that on your weak side. You can also try and do moves differently. This is kind of hard to explain. Fool around with a move and see which way doing it is easiest. The key is a lot of practice. Drills can help. Find combos that work both sides and do them over and over. Like if you were trying to learn legovers and mirages on both sides really well, do legover, mirage, legover, mirage, etc. Later From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 23 07:10:57 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07516 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:10:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from m6.jersey.juno.com (m6.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18516 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:47:22 -0700 Received: (from jmlane2@juno.com) by m6.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EJN3HCM7; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 22:46:27 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 08:47:07 -0700 Subject: [freestyle] sweet bag Message-ID: <19990822.084710.-953201.0.jmlane2@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,5-8 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Jason M Lane Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Zeke(and everyone else), I just wanted to write and say that I got my Richard bag about a week ago, and man is it a sweet bag. I've been kicking it around to break it in, and it stalls great. I've been working on the clipper-stalls and have hit a few. I also ordered some Rod Lavers from the wfa, so hopefully It'll get easier. Thanks for all your help. catch ya' later, Jason From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 23 07:11:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07526 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:11:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from admin.cgocable.net (admin.cgocable.net [24.226.1.21]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21111 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 23:05:06 -0700 Received: from [24.226.9.44] (cgowave-9-44.cgocable.net [24.226.9.44]) by admin.cgocable.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02216 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 02:05:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908230605.CAA02216@admin.cgocable.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 02:15:58 -0400 Subject: [freestyle] Millenium Lavers From: "Neil Bearse" To: freestyle@footbag.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey all. i bought a pair of Lavers at an Athletes wOrld about three months ago... what are the differences between the new ones and the old ones. why arent the new ones as good? i couldnt find this stuff that im sposed to cut out from the mesh...... is this a difference between them? ive also only seen Green Ones in stores now.... did they only remake the greens? thanx -neil From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 23 07:11:15 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07536 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:11:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15741 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 15:20:00 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #39336) with SMTP id <0FGW002010PC0Y@clem.mscd.edu> for Freestyle@footbag.org; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:20:00 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:19:59 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: [freestyle] Adidas Masters In-reply-to: <199908160533.BAA13751@admin.cgocable.net> To: Neil Bearse Cc: Freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I don't know if they sell them in the states, but one of the guys from Finland was wearing Adidas Masters at world this year. They are almost identical to the Lavers except they have the three stripes down the side. BRAD From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 23 07:11:20 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07546 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:11:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15636; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 15:02:38 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #39336) with SMTP id <0FGV00101ZW4G9@clem.mscd.edu>; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:02:28 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:02:28 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] worlds judging system In-reply-to: To: Steve Goldberg Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Steve Goldberg wrote: > Yes but even then, we still need a concept of what we want (as a > sport) the judges to look for. We could be looking for highly > technical routines, or we could be looking for the best combination > of presentation and technical skill. Just "simple ranking" doesn't > give the judges many guidelines or tools at all. I know this is probably old by now, but here's an idea that I've been kicking around in my head. How about doing something along the lines of figure skating. I don't know exactly how the judging works, but they perform something like 3 times and each time the components they are being judged on are different; technical, presentation.... Then take the scores of the three, average them out and you have your overall scores. This would allow the players more than one shot at performing their routine before being knocked out by the top dogs, and maybe they would have a better chance at coming out ahead. I know that this is pretty much done all in one shot with the line up of judges now, but you could get more consistency using the same judges for each time the players perform. Just an unfinished thought, BRAD From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 23 07:27:00 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07586 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:27:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ux4.isu.edu (ux4.isu.edu [134.50.250.16]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21566 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 23:31:12 -0700 Received: from isu.edu ([134.50.103.15]) by ux4.isu.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2E9E for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 00:31:15 -0600 Message-ID: <37C0EBD7.9ED032F4@isu.edu> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 00:36:07 -0600 From: Bob Green X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'freestyle'" Subject: [freestyle] Bar room Hacky Sack Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey Stylers, Went out to a bar here in Pocatello called Hooligans this Saturday night. While there, a friend of mine pointed out a list of contests on the wall. Each contest was listed next to a time, a short description, and description of the prize. The one my friend was pointing out read: 9:00 Hacky Sac -most consecutive kicks wins- free sandwich. Upon inquiry, the bartender informed us the contests take place every 1st Saturday of each month. He also said that about 15 kicks ususally wins the sandwich. Looks like I might have a chance for free dinner once a month.;) Just thought some of you might appreciate this little tidbit. By the way, does anyone know how to get ahold of Paul Mestas? I lost is card. Thanks in advance. See ya, Bob From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 23 16:56:41 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07988 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:56:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (qmail 5611 invoked by uid 0); 23 Aug 1999 15:10:03 -0000 Message-ID: <19990823151003.5610.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.207.214 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:10:03 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.207.214] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: ezra_kim@juno.com, freestyle@email.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] some tricks Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:10:03 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hi all. Ezra Kim asked about any tips for schooling swirl. The set is a very slight hop, and then depending on which direction you are swirling, you do a slight hop backwards or forwards. My best advice really is to scrutinize some video of somebody who is good at swirls, and then emulate. I learned swirl by watching Adrian Verhoef on UQAM Jam hit it twice in a row. Jeremiah Riley also gave some really good advice about strengthening your weakside. Don't be afraid to experiment with different styles. Rippin' does legbeater "leggy" style on one side, and "hippy" style on the other. Toy around on both sides with as many different styles as you can think of. You never know what style your body may find most comfortable. Oh and Ethan, the reason JP is so silent on the list is because he unsubscribed a while ago. Ankle socks rule! Ken CF Somolinos nyfa From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Mon Aug 23 19:40:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA08401 for freestyle-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:40:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: (from jriely@localhost) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10252; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:46:13 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:46:13 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremiah J. Riely" X-Sender: jriely@coins0.coin.missouri.edu To: Ezra Kim cc: freestyle@email.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] some tricks In-Reply-To: <19990823.113758.4774.0.ezra_kim@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > hi, > . > i have been tryin to skool the swirl for a long time already. i've seen > it on Tricks of The Trade n things, i slow moed some stuff before. i Ok, the "swirl" on Tricks of the Trade isn't actually a swirl, it is a hop-over swirl. I don't know if are trying to learn hop-over swirl or just swirl. All a swirl is is an around-the-world set from a clipper and ending on a clipper. Your foot never leaves the cross body position. I don't know if I have anything to say to help you learn it because I cannot do it at all. Mabye practicing them in front (not cross body) using inside delays would help. Later From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 24 08:07:13 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA09206 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:07:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09194 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:34:12 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #39336) with SMTP id <0FGY00B01CORXR@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:34:03 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:34:03 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Millenium Lavers In-reply-to: <199908230605.CAA02216@admin.cgocable.net> To: Neil Bearse Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Mon, 23 Aug 1999, Neil Bearse wrote: > ive also only seen Green Ones in stores now.... did they only remake the > greens? I've only seen them in blue at one of those big *ss sports stores where you can get every shoe made, except the old style Lavers. Brad From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 24 08:09:02 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA09216 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:09:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from admin.cgocable.net (admin.cgocable.net [24.226.1.21]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09225 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:37:56 -0700 Received: from [24.226.9.44] (cgowave-9-44.cgocable.net [24.226.9.44]) by admin.cgocable.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12278 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 00:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908240438.AAA12278@admin.cgocable.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 00:48:58 -0400 Subject: [freestyle] New Lavers, again :) From: "Neil Bearse" To: Freestyle@footbag.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org k.... lemme get this straight. if i bought lavers THIS year, in a sports store, they are the NEW ones, which are not good for footbag...?? if i order them from the WFA are they the old sweet good ones??? also, is there any way to get a Carol bag or something other than a Juice over the net? which good bag dyou all recommend... ?? cause i wanna get somethin sweet. take care neil From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Tue Aug 24 17:20:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10043 for freestyle-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:20:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA17350 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 04:30:19 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zCKUa22757 (2613) for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 07:29:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 07:29:32 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Breaking In To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I've read numerous things about how to break in a new bag, wash it, work it vigorously with your hands, blah blah blah. That never seems to work for me though. I just ordered a facile Juice. What should I do to break it in. What do you guys do? Owen "Finally Got a WFA Membership" Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 02:11:23 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA10373 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:11:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f147.hotmail.com [209.185.131.210]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA25471 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:18:41 -0700 Received: (qmail 66265 invoked by uid 0); 24 Aug 1999 22:18:11 -0000 Message-ID: <19990824221811.66264.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 139.67.26.185 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:18:10 PDT X-Originating-IP: [139.67.26.185] From: "Frank Gutowski" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] I'm movin on up, to the east bay .... Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:18:10 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all, On September 9th I start my journey westward to the San Fran area. I am going from Illinois out to the Bay on I80, if there is anyone on the way who would like to play, let me know. If anyone has Eli's email or home address please let me know - Boulder/Ft.Collins is going to be my first stop on the 10th of Sept. Looking forward to kicking with anyone along the way. Frank From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 02:11:53 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA10388 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:11:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from m6.jersey.juno.com (m6.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27232 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:09:45 -0700 Received: (from jmlane2@juno.com) by m6.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EJTW6RUX; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:06:58 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 06:07:24 -0700 Subject: [freestyle] any one in Denver Message-ID: <19990824.060730.-41558271.2.jmlane2@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,5-7 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Jason M Lane Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey, I'll be attending the Rocky Mountain College of Art and Design in Denver this Sept. and was wondering if anyone living near there wants to get together and footbag, 'cause I don't know anyone up there. I could also use some skoolin' from someone a little more experienced. hope to hear from someone. catch 'ya later, Jason From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 02:11:52 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA10385 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:11:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from m6.jersey.juno.com (m6.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27186 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:07:08 -0700 Received: (from jmlane2@juno.com) by m6.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EJTW6RTU; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:06:58 EDT To: SuperOwen@aol.com Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 06:00:50 -0700 Subject: Re: [freestyle] Breaking In Message-ID: <19990824.060730.-41558271.1.jmlane2@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,5-7 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Jason M Lane Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey man, The best way to break a bag in is to just kick it a lot. You have to have patience though. Also, with facile you don't want to be rough with it(working it vigorously, smashing it against pavement, toe starts, etc.) Have a blast with your Juice, when it breaks in it'll probably be awesome. catch ya' later, Jason From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 02:11:51 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA10381 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:11:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from m6.jersey.juno.com (m6.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27247 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:10:24 -0700 Received: (from jmlane2@juno.com) by m6.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EJTW6RSJ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:06:58 EDT To: jester21@cgocable.net Cc: Freestyle@footbag.org Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 05:54:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [freestyle] New Lavers, again :) Message-ID: <19990824.060730.-41558271.0.jmlane2@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4,8-10 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Jason M Lane Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey, I just bought a pair of lavers from the wfa, and man are they sweeet! I used to be able to hit a clipper stall after a thousand tries(I'm a beginner), but with the lavers i have been hitting clippers at least every other try. Also, if you order from the wfa they send you a sheet on how to do the "surgery" and how to lace 'em for freestyle. I also just got a Richard's bag witch is a very sweet bag(it also helped improve my game). It's facile and will cost you about $25, but you have to call Richard personally, you can't get it over the net. His number, if your interested, is: (619) 488-2133. I highly recommend getting both. catch 'ya later, Jason From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 03:52:35 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA10567 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:52:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Message-ID: <19990825030442.6321.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.216.156.84] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:04:42 PDT Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:04:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamez Risden Subject: [freestyle] no subject To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org sup adam and baggars, i have a queston. is a double leg over still a double legover when hit off of a clipper stall? i know that what i am doing is not the pardox legover because i "pogo" the clipper stall then bring my opposite leg over the bag into a toe stall... today my friend who has only had about ten hours of bagtime did this....(im gonna take a stab at the jobs notation) toe>same in[dex]>opp out[dex]>same toe[del] i know i totally messed that up but you guys will probably figure it out. anyway is that a pixie double leg over? i dident think it was, but i thought i should ask somone who knows. and to derrick scalf, thanks for your help on the paradon im one stepp closer to it. your the man! ive watched your videos on dallas footbag. well gotta go. check ya later James the crappy ass bagger that thinks hes good but he cant even hit a ripwalk Risden From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 06:37:11 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA10836 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 06:37:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from left (tc2-173.nccn.net [209.79.221.173]) by nccn2.nccn.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/*rGs* 99.07.16-) with SMTP id WAA04103 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:28:37 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01beeeba$3dd5c4a0$addd4fd1@left> From: "Lon Smith" To: Subject: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #716 Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:16:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Lynton Stephens, I must say your records are some of the best out there. Those are some awesome moves that you mentioned too. I especially like Neutron Smasher. I can't wait to see that one hit. It seems very doable I can see how cool it looks in my head. Thanks for setting some of the records strait. Hack with ya lata ShredOnLAWNlon From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 16:21:27 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11062 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:21:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from diana.sfsu.edu (diana.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.239]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA32316 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:35:26 -0700 Received: from default (madmax-67.sfsu.edu [130.212.201.67]) by diana.sfsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA22498 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990824233359.007d5d00@sfsu.edu> X-Sender: tuhuge@sfsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:33:59 -0700 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Tu Vu Subject: [freestyle] bedwetter madness Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org i usually dislike writing here but i thought i would like to share a cool occurance shredding with sunil "the tsunami" and eric "the ironman" i started a hack with a bedwetter and passed it to sunil who immediately hit it and passed to eric wulff who hits no problem and back to me, where i hit it again. so we had a hack and a third of all bedwetters. i thought it was cool enought to share love ya all 2 huge From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 16:21:28 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11067 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:21:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f226.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.226]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA09189 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 08:13:31 -0700 Received: (qmail 10912 invoked by uid 0); 25 Aug 1999 15:12:56 -0000 Message-ID: <19990825151256.10911.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.188.192.39 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 08:12:55 PDT X-Originating-IP: [205.188.192.39] From: "KeN Somolinos" To: cloudriz@yahoo.com, freestyle@footbag.org Subject: [freestyle] re: freestyle crispy qs Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 08:12:55 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hey all! James Rizden asked: >is a double leg over still a double legover when hit >off of a clipper stall The real question is, what happens if you hit it alone in the forest? The move you are hitting sounds to me like a double leg over, crispy style. If you do a clipper set double leg over in one big hopping motion, it's original recipe. If you use a blurry or pogo set, and then do a leg over, then it's extra crispy. If you have a choice between the two, i suggest you learn the "Motion" style, because it opens more doors. You can only hit haze and fog if you can do the Original recipe. Still, there are a couple good things to be said about the stepping style. First off, it leaves you with a very solid toe, which makes it easier to play out of it. Also, you can stick a duck in between the dexes of a crispy dlo, which is always cool. James also asked: >today my friend who has only had about ten hours of bagtime did >this....(im gonna take a stab at the jobs notation) toe>same >in[dex]>opp out[dex]>same toe[del] >i know i totally messed that up but you guys will probably figure it >out. anyway is that a pixie double leg over? i dident think it was, Sounds like your friend is hitting pixie leg over. Lon hits these back and forth repeatedly. Pixie dlo is toe>same in>opp in>opp out>same toe. This move is also called smog. Oh and James, being good and hitting ripwalk are completely unrelated. GF Smoothie can hit mobius to pdx blender, and I don't think he does blurry moves. Keep shredding everybody Ken CFan Somolinos nyfa From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 16:21:30 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11072 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:21:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09285 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 08:20:04 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zXXBa28698 (3925) for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:19:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <79ee27f8.24f56375@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:19:17 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Puke To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Anyone ever skool so hard they thought they were gonna puke? I just did, was worth it though. Hit weakside mirage and toe>same in>same clip (couldn't find it on the move list). Lata. I love this sport. Shred on, Owen "" Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 19:00:42 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11352 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:00:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f66.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA11824 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:20:46 -0700 Received: (qmail 97840 invoked by uid 0); 25 Aug 1999 17:20:12 -0000 Message-ID: <19990825172012.97839.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 152.163.160.19 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:20:12 PDT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.160.19] From: "Daniel Kramer" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] re: freestyle crispy qs Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:20:12 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Oh and James, being good and hitting ripwalk are completely unrelated. GF >Smoothie can hit mobius to pdx blender, and I don't >think he does blurry >moves. I have him on multiple tapes hitting both ripwalk and blur. But he definitely doesn't do them a lot. Perhaps to save his knees/shin splints/ankles? Whaddya say GF? DK From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 19:00:44 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11357 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:00:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Allman144@aol.com Received: from Allman144@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zWFUa20496 (15548); Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:52:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3e3410b1.24f58741@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:52:01 EDT Subject: [freestyle] untitled To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL NetMail version 2.0 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Owen wrote: "I've read numerous things about how to break in a new bag,wash it, work it vigorously with your hands, blah blah blah.That never seems to work for me though. I just ordered a facile Juice. What should I do to break it in. What do you guys do?" Well Owen, I am so glad you asked. The tools for this job are right at your fingertips. Any simple domestic appliance will work, such as some cooking oil and an iron. Soak the bag in cooking oil and crank up that iron and go to town. If that doesn't work, put in the blender and push "frappe." If that doesn't break it in, I don't know what will. Also, I am kidding, I hope you realized that. Just kick it a lot....and kneading it with your fingers works well also. Later! Tony Glick From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 21:51:34 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA11482 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:51:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from smtp1.ncal.verio.com (smtp1.ncal.verio.com [207.20.246.161]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14428 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:21:59 -0700 Received: from jon (as54-181.okldca.pacific.verio.net [207.20.233.181]) by smtp1.ncal.verio.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA00831 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009801beef38$13306ba0$0200a8c0@jon> From: "Jon Azen" To: "freestyle" Subject: [freestyle] Laver blowout Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:25:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org During lunch today, I headed down to Don Sherwood's Golf & Tennis ( Walnut Creek, CA - Bay Area ). They're blowing-out green-trimmed Lavers for $34.95. I think that it's a chain-store so maybe they're all over the place. Does anyone kick in Sproul plaza during summer? When? Thanks. - Jon From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 23:34:44 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA11567 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:34:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15385 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:26:35 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990825212633.GYR6517.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:26:33 -0700 Message-ID: <37C461FC.DF95BD0D@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:37:00 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Owen Parrish CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Puke References: <79ee27f8.24f56375@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Owen Parrish wrote: > > Anyone ever skool so hard they thought they were gonna puke? I just did, was > worth it though. Just yesterday as a matter of fact. This heat wave of 30 days of 100+ weather isn't helping much either. I like to kick until I'm tired and then go for a 30 contact run. That gets the blood pumping and the stomach churning :) > Hit weakside mirage and toe>same in>same clip (couldn't find > it on the move list). Congratulations on the new moves. About that one, it is a pixie clipper. A lot of people mistakenly call it a pixie drifter, but that would be toe > same in > op in > same clip. That move is hard - in fact, I don't think I've ever seen anyone hit it. Surely someone has done it. Anyone? And about the moves list not having that move... keep an eye out for an update to that list. Later. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 23:34:54 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA11577 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:34:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from ux4.isu.edu (ux4.isu.edu [134.50.250.16]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15520 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:34:37 -0700 Received: from isu.edu ([134.50.103.15]) by ux4.isu.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA5573; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:34:42 -0600 Message-ID: <37C46294.BE4E8BEA@isu.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:39:32 -0600 From: Bob Green X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Owen Parrish , "'freestyle'" Subject: Re: [freestyle] Puke References: <79ee27f8.24f56375@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Owen Parrish wrote: > Hit ....toe>same in>same clip (couldn't find > it on the move list). Lata. > Hey Owen! The move you are hitting is called a pixie clipper (same side). It is pretty fun, and also very "drifterish" depending on how you do it. You can also try toe>same in>op clip which is a pixie clipper (opp side). I have not done the latter of the two, but I assume the motion is "whirlish". So, give it a whirl....all pun intended. See ya, Bob From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 23:34:57 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA11587 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:34:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15630 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:40:43 -0700 Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990825214040.JRC6517.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@dallasfootbag.org>; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:40:40 -0700 Message-ID: <37C4654B.10E41E3E@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:51:07 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeN Somolinos CC: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: wifebeater and records - (was Re: [freestyle] Consec records) References: <19990821203910.3286.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org KeN Somolinos wrote: > there's also wifebeater, or atomic eggbeater. I > don't know if anybody hits this, but Richie Abshire and the San Diego crew > assured me that's its name. I was talking with Tuan a while back. He said that wifebeater is a symposium eggbeater. He hits one on '97 shred. I remember that name just because it is so politically correct :) I don't know what an atomic eggbeater would be other than pure hell. All of you wacky people with huge atomic sets... > Two more things. Can anyone hit toe fog? What, you can't? I do this easily on both sides. Hehe... not really. I'm guessing that Sunil would be the one to do this move. On that note, I heard it rumored that Tsunami is hitting plasma (toe set blurriest) on both sides. > Or how about stepping butterfly? Just a reminder. Currently, there is no record for stepping butterflies. So, I'm going to start out the bidding at my personal best - 2. I know that I've seen more than that during the Automotive Jam (the same session as Noah's 24 eclipses), but I don't have the drive to look it up right now. Maybe later. So, if you have better than 2, you have the current WORLD RECORD! Let me know. -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 23:45:09 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA11607 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:45:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from smtp.mail.yahoo.com (smtp.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.32]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA16049 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:59:10 -0700 Received: from pm583-39.dialip.mich.net (HELO wilson) (207.74.110.97) by smtp.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Aug 1999 15:02:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990825175602.00a84550@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: mark_madej@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:58:59 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Mark Madej Subject: Re: [freestyle] re: freestyle crispy qs In-Reply-To: <19990825172012.97839.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I dont know what he has been doing in the past, but I was kicking with GF Smoothie last night and I saw him hit ripwalks firsthand.... not to mention 23 symposium mirages in a row. :-) Mark >>Oh and James, being good and hitting ripwalk are completely >>unrelated. GF Smoothie can hit mobius to pdx blender, and I don't >think >>he does blurry moves. > >I have him on multiple tapes hitting both ripwalk and blur. But he >definitely doesn't do them a lot. Perhaps to save his knees/shin >splints/ankles? Whaddya say GF? > >DK From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Wed Aug 25 23:54:44 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA11663 for freestyle-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:54:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from clem.mscd.edu (pmdf@clem.mscd.edu [147.153.1.3]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17087 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:02:28 -0700 Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #39336) with SMTP id <0FH100601MO2J7@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@footbag.org; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:02:26 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:02:26 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Breaking In In-reply-to: To: Owen Parrish Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Owen Parrish wrote: > I've read numerous things about how to break in a new bag, wash it, work it > vigorously with your hands, blah blah blah. That never seems to work for me > though. I just ordered a facile Juice. What should I do to break it in. > What do you guys do? I usually roll it up in toilet paper, throw it in the toilet, piss on it, and flush. If it goes down it's not meant to be. Hope this helps! BRAD From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 26 04:33:47 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA12162 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:33:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from localhost by clem.mscd.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #39336) with SMTP id <0FH100901NE8F3@clem.mscd.edu> for freestyle@email.footbag.org; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:18:08 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:18:08 -0600 (MDT) From: KAPLAN BRADLEY M Subject: Re: [freestyle] Re: Freestyle Digest V1 #716 In-reply-to: <000b01beeeba$3dd5c4a0$addd4fd1@left> To: Lon Smith Cc: freestyle@email.footbag.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Lon Smith wrote: > I especially like Neutron Smasher. What a Neutron Smasher? BRAD From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 26 04:33:49 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA12167 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:33:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Message-ID: <19990826032148.14518.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.248.158.43] by web803.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:21:48 PDT Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:21:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamez Risden Subject: [freestyle] I LOVE FOOTBAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To: freestyle@email.footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello all you badass baggers, I would just like to say that i love footbag. I just started kickin' this summer. Ive practiced my ass off, and just when i started to think that i was getting nowhere, all that practice has started to pay off. A week ago i hit my first whirl. I now have that skooled to graduation.(In Adam's words). Yesterday i hit my first double leg over. And today i was standing there listening to my friends blab about bulls*$@ when suddenly i felt the torque. thats exactly what i said too. "I feel a torque comin' on". out of nowhere i busted a fat torque. right after that i did another. then one more. now im at home writing this e-mail that no one is going to care to read. All i want to know is if im doin' good or not. How long does it usually take to learn this stuff?? Some one please reply. i really want to know.. Later, James Risden Still can't hit a ripwalk though!!! From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 26 04:39:45 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA12186 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:39:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Message-ID: <19990826033249.24134.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.248.158.43] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:32:49 PDT Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:32:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamez Risden Subject: [freestyle] no subject To: freestyle@email.footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Hello again, Since im on a roll i think im gonna try to learn the pixie butterfly. It would be great if anyone could give me any tips on hitting it. Im glad everyone stopped blabbin bout' that adds system. It was starting to get boring readin' that crap. later, Rizz __________________________________________________ From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 26 04:57:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA12214 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:57:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from dallasfootbag.org ([24.7.100.246]) by mail.rdc2.mi.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990826040618.UHKI2076.mail.rdc2.mi.home.com@dallasfootbag.org> for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:06:18 -0700 Message-ID: <37C4BFAD.6C4465E9@dallasfootbag.org> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:16:45 -0500 From: Derric Scalf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freestyle@email.footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] I LOVE FOOTBAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! References: <19990826032148.14518.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Jamez Risden wrote: > whirl. double leg over. torque. > How long does it usually take to learn this stuff?? Well, you can learn the basic threes and fours in a couple of months - if you choose to go that route. Really though, the best way to improve (in the long run) is to practice your twos for a long time. Do drills of ATW > mirage > ATW > mirage. Or legover > rev mirage > legover > rev mirage. And, of course, you NEED your clippers. Do left to right to left etc. When you can consistently have runs of 10 or more moves, then it is time to practice your threes. Do butterfly > pdx mirage > butterfly > pdx mirage. Or whirl > infinity > whirl > infinity. Or osis > same side butterfly > osis > same side butterfly. I'm sure you see what I'm saying here... you need to come up with drills that work both sides equally. I'm glad that you are starting to hit some good moves. Double legover still gives me trouble unless I do it crispy style. And torque is one of my favorites. My question is this: Are you hitting all of your moves on both sides? When I was first learning, I was very one sided. That is bad because now I have to start over on the weak side. When you start hitting more complex moves, you NEED the basics on BOTH SIDES. Also, you need to have them down to where they are easy. So, the moral of the story is practice on string length and consistency on both sides. Don't worry about the big hard tricks... yet. They will come in time. The best players have been playing for years and years. Face it, it will take a long time to catch up to them. If you start out trying hard moves, it will just slow you down in the long run. Cool? -Derric From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 26 05:43:21 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA12274 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 05:43:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22113 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:53:10 -0700 Received: from smegma (user-2ivf5b3.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.149.99]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA02538 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 00:53:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990826005104.00810960@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: ecrvich@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 00:51:04 -0400 To: freestyle@footbag.org From: Ernest Crvich Subject: Re: [freestyle] I LOVE FOOTBAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <37C4BFAD.6C4465E9@dallasfootbag.org> References: <19990826032148.14518.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org At 11:16 PM 8/25/99 -0500, Derric Scalf wrote: >long time to catch up to them. If you start out trying hard moves, it >will just slow you down in the long run. Cool? Listen to what this man says, Jamez. Derric wasn't "Recognized Man of the Year" in 1998 for nothing...the advice he gives here is sound and sage. Although it is tempting and initially more rewarding to skip ahead to the tough stuff, it will benefit your long term game plan to drill things like Mirage, Legover, and Clipper Stall...then later on, Butterfly, Osis, and clipper-set Mirage...and so on, strengthening those building-block moves. Once you start getting a taste for those juicy 3s and 4s, it's going to become harder to spend any time on the basics. How's that recognition coming along this year, Derric? -- Ernest "Scratch" Crvich http://www.mindspring.com/~ecrvich Geek Code v3.1: GCS d- s+:-- a- C++ W++ N++ w+ M- V-- t+ e++ h+ Have footbag, will shred. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 26 07:27:29 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA12388 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:27:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from m6.jersey.juno.com (m6.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.62]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23654 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:35:48 -0700 Received: (from jmlane2@juno.com) by m6.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EJW7RCUV; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 02:34:39 EDT To: freestyle@footbag.org Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:35:20 -0700 Subject: [freestyle] cool as hell Message-ID: <19990825.123523.-961997.1.jmlane2@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,4-10 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Jason M Lane Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org hey, I just wanted to let you all know that you all are cool as hell. your all really helpful, especially since your all experienced shredders. It seems like I'm the only beginner on the list. I haven't even hit a drifter yet. Anyway, I thought I'd give you that tidbit of info. catch ya' later Jason P.S.-Excuse me if this is bad etiquette or spamming(tell me if it is), but I was just wondering what most of you freestylist listen to music-wise(rock, alternative, bands, etc.), just to ease my curiosity. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 26 15:15:13 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12590 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:15:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00655 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:17:26 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zQLWa05147 (4012) for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:16:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:16:54 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] cool as hell To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Man, I'm a beginner and I was pumped last night when my weakside mirages didn't feel weak I learned fairy and I put pixi, butterfly, and mirage into a combo. Am I missing something? All these kids r like, I'm a beginner and I cna't even hit ripwalk, drifter etc. I'm not exactly sure where I'm going with this, it's pretty much just babble at the moment. Stop.....Pause....Breath.....Think....Collect Thoughts Alright, I think I got it now, your "goodness" is not measured by what kind of moves you can hit, quit worrying about hitting a certain move just shred and do what ever you feel like making your legs do. Anyways, I still love this sport. Shred On, Owen "The Total Package" Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 26 15:15:37 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12604 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:15:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f141.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.141]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA31480 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:47:36 -0700 Received: (qmail 14545 invoked by uid 0); 26 Aug 1999 11:47:05 -0000 Message-ID: <19990826114705.14544.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 141.84.137.66 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:47:04 PDT X-Originating-IP: [141.84.137.66] From: "Andrew McCargar" To: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] Puke Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:47:04 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org Owen and Derric wrote: >Anyone ever skool so hard they thought they were gonna puke? I just >did, >was worth it though. >Just yesterday as a matter of fact. This heat wave of 30 days of >100+ >weather isn't helping much either. I like to kick until I'm >tired and >then go for a 30 contact run. That gets the blood pumping >and the stomach >churning :) Well there's always the saged advice Tim Kelly once gave me "just keep playing till you think you're going to throw up, go throw up and then play some more." Words to live by. Although I don't know if I love this game enough to start uneating on a regular basis. >About that one, it is a pixie clipper. A lot of people mistakenly >call it >a pixie drifter, but that would be toe > same in > op in > >same clip. >That move is hard - in fact, I don't think I've ever seen >anyone hit it. >Surely someone has done it. Anyone? I can hit that, but only on one side. Just set straight up around waist high and the rest feels a lot like a paradox drifter. Pixi same side drifter is also fun toe>same in-out(plant)>same in-out>same clipper. -Andrew From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Thu Aug 26 15:15:37 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12605 for freestyle-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:15:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from iuakk.fi (lux2.iuakk.fi [194.89.13.6]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA31531 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:52:57 -0700 Received: (qmail 2027 invoked from network); 26 Aug 1999 11:52:49 -0000 Received: from x2-56k.ppp.07.iuakk.fi (HELO iuakk) (194.89.12.73) by lux2.iuakk.fi with SMTP; 26 Aug 1999 11:52:49 -0000 Message-ID: <002801beefb9$5f1432a0$28b0fea9@iuakk.fi> From: "Juha Linnanen" To: , "Jason M Lane" References: <19990825.123523.-961997.1.jmlane2@juno.com> Subject: Re: [freestyle] cool as hell Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:51:43 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > I just wanted to let you all know that you all are cool as hell. your > all really helpful, especially since your all experienced shredders. It > seems like I'm the only beginner on the list. I haven't even hit a > drifter yet. Anyway, I thought I'd give you that tidbit of info. Well, you're not the only one, I can promise that. The thing is, that all beginners are frightened to write anything into this list. Btw. You can't say that you're a beginner if you can't hit drifter. I find drifter quite difficult even I can hit tricks like blur and ripwalk. (well, you see, I'm far from pro myself too!) With drifter what I see is so difficult is to keep balance with it. I can get it, but I can't get good set out of it because I'm unbalanced already. > P.S.-Excuse me if this is bad etiquette or spamming(tell me if it is), > but I was just wondering what most of you freestylist listen to > music-wise(rock, alternative, bands, etc.), just to ease my curiosity. To me, best shredding music is bands like chemical brothers, prodigy, daft punk .. And for me, any good "techno" with right tempo and rhythm is fine. It's what get you into good mood, that you feel like you could hit any trick there exist! BUT I tell you: Playing with *any* music is so much funnier/easier than without music at all. Just get some music and shred your ass off! I hope you understand my bad english!, Juha Linnanen From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 27 05:15:05 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA13608 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:15:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Bryan Fournier Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02922; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:46:39 -0700 Received: from ShReDStEiN@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 8TSIa00254 (4203); Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:45:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:45:24 EDT Subject: Re: wifebeater and records - (was Re: [freestyle] Consec records) To: derric@dallasfootbag.org, owner-freestyle@footbag.org, footbug@hotmail.com CC: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org In a message dated 8/25/99 2:47:41 PM, derric@dallasfootbag.org wrote: <> Affirmative... the So. Cal crew witnessed this move a few weeks ago when Sunil visited Hermosa Beach for a short sojourn. It is still a 'rare' move but I can see a couple more people hitting it in the future. Props sunil... later ~Bryan F. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 27 05:14:55 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA13593 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:14:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01503 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:58:24 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zUOLa09400 (3980) for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <68e0c7a3.24f6afc0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:57:04 EDT Subject: Re: [freestyle] cool as hell To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I like to listen to punk and ska while shredding. From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 27 05:14:57 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA13598 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:14:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f From: Owen Parrish Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02010 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:27:45 -0700 Received: from SuperOwen@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zDAEa01390 (4532) for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:25:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:25:08 EDT Subject: [freestyle] Symposium Paradox To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org I'm posting like a madman lately. Any tips for syposium mirage or paradox mirage? Owen "Total Package" Parrish From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 27 05:15:08 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA13613 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:15:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from web1306.mail.yahoo.com (web1306.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.156]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA04411 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:28:43 -0700 Message-ID: <19990826183751.1658.rocketmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [165.121.32.158] by web1306.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:37:51 PDT Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:37:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane Jones Subject: Re: [freestyle] I LOVE FOOTBAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To: freestyle@footbag.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org > --- Jamez Risden wrote: > > All i want to know is if im doin' good or not. > > How long does it usually take to learn this > stuff?? > > Some one please reply. i really want to know.. I'd say you're doing really well. It took me a few years to hit torque. Although, I think ripwalk is probably an easier move personally. Depends on what comes more naturally to you. That whirl you skooled all summer probably helped you indirectly hit torque. you'll discover that more and more often. skooling one move helps you get three or four other ones. The question is (or my question is) can you hit these moves in combos? I know a bunch of beginners who have been able to hit 4 and 5 add moves within their first 3-4 months of skooling, but the can't even hit a tiltless or guiltless string. I personally think a longer string of lower add moves takes more skill and dicipline (sometimes)than being able to hit a "big" move. Keep skoolin'--sounds like this is your sport! I hope we see you at a tournament! Adios, Jane From owner-freestyle@email.footbag.org Fri Aug 27 05:15:03 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by email.footbag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA13603 for freestyle-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:15:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: email.footbag.org: majordom set sender to owner-freestyle@footbag.org using -f Received: from mailsorter-105-1.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.119]) by Market.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02220 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:40:02 -0700 Received: from postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net (postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.247]) by mailsorter-105-1.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id IAA04674; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from production@localhost) by postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) id IAA13097; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUAqetDU+2q0riGM77eJTiIzznTqGkCFQDDSAxLpEvcpllKbhIaCKZJ+YuaAg== From: GFSmoothie@webtv.net (Greg Nelson) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:40:02 -0400 (EDT) To: grandincredible@hotmail.com (Daniel Kramer) Cc: freestyle@footbag.org Subject: Re: [freestyle] re: freestyle crispy qs Message-ID: <8683-37C55FD2-3923@postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "Daniel Kramer" 's message of Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:20:12 PDT Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Sender: owner-freestyle@footbag.org >Oh and James, being good and hitting >ripwalk are completely unrelated. GF >Smoothie can hit mobius to pdx blender, >and I don't think he does blurry moves. I have him on multiple tapes hitting both ripwalk and blur. But he definitely doesn't do them a lot. Perhaps to save his knees/shin splints/ankles? Whaddya say GF? DK" I skooled those pretty hard in 97, and yeah I had a bit of the shin splnts. The problem was compounded by the fact that I wouldn't take time off. The Spenco brand insoes that the Enlightener turned me on to helped a lot.But I got away from doing those type of "pounding" moves. Nowadays I have to throw some i