[Footbag WorldWide]
E-MAIL DISCUSSION SERVICE

Re: [freestyle] Dancing Queen (was Adds - The History)

Sandra O'Connor <webmaster@footbag.com>
Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:02:46 -0600

On 26 Sep 2000, at 13:34, Sunil Subhash Jani wrote:

> I ask again, why are there no links to footbag.org on footbag.com...  in
> fact, Steve once did have a link to footbag.com on his site, but you NEVER
> put a link to footbag.org on your site.

Actually we did have a link to .org on our home page once for a
number of months during our first year online and for very good
reasons we took it off.
> _____________________________________________
> One Kick Net - playing rules
>
> Playing Rules
>
>        Scoring system the same as Ping Pong
>        Win the volley - win the point, regardless of who served.
>        Games go to 21 points - 2 points to win.
>        Server gets 5 serves, then serve switched in multiples of 5
>        		until 20 serves made, then serve goes back and forth, one
>                 by one.
>        No double fault, single serve only.
>        If serve falls inside 4' dead zone by the net, server loses
>                 the point.
> ...________________________________________________________
>
> Sounds like a bunch of rules to me.  (Note: Rules to circle kicking are
> also listed on the site!?).

Actually it is a Code of Conduct for circles which will help people
keep them going in a productive fashion for everyone regardless of
skill, not rules.  The word "rules" does appear there (General Circle
Rules) and I thank you for bringing this to our attention, it will be
changed because they are not rules as such but a suggested code
of conduct only.

> But you introduce structured games on your website...hmmm.
> The above is written in the same paragraph where John Stallberger is
> criticized for introducing competition into the footbag community.  Again,
> another paradox is evident... please reconcile.

We realize some people want to compete and that competition is
here to stay (although we suggest that another attitude might be
more productive for society - the Bloughchi paper) and know that a
more professional game is needed for footbag net to be taken
seriously by the sports world.  We are saying if you must compete
then use a good game to do it and are offering same.
>
> Many of the statements and attitudes expressed on your web site seem
> dictatorial to me.  Perhaps, again, this is just a problem in my
> perception.

Like what? Because we keep saying that freestyle is more than
just juggling, is this dictatorial?

> > Why do you feel that is a crime?
>
> What are you talking about?... I never said anything like this... I just
> asked why footbag.org was not listed as a link on footbag.com.  Where do
> you get me saying what you are doing is wrong out of that?  Why are you so
> defensive?  Why do you start swinging at me the moment I ask a question?
> Why not just ANSWER THE QUESTION and not take it personally?
>
Your attitude and the tone of your response to my email indicated
to me that you do feel it is a crime. I am defensive because I have
received some very nasty emails from Steve Goldberg.
Additionally, when we first put .com up we recevied about 15 very
nasty (and I mean nasty) emails, and continual badgering from
Goldberg.  We want to help kickers, any kickers, anywhere, of any
style.  We do not want to seem kickers limited early on by thinking
there is only one type of freestyle, as indicated by the "offical"
competition rules listed in .org, so we are telling them about
footbag dance.  We have been attacked, repudiated, castigated,
and abused repeatedly by the maker of .org and some of his
cohorts.

n regard to WHY .org is not listed in our site I can tell you it is  a
decison taken in response to WHY .org does not relate to footbag
dance and other forms of freestyle, to the fact that the discussion
list for freestyle has been presented as "advanced freestyle" and as
"very technical" as though to say juggling is the only freestyle that
counts. We do not believe this to be true so we do not support this
concept by promoting .org in any way.  If .org would really open up
and allow all freestyle to be discussed, pleasantly, to recognize all
freestyle, then we might change our mind about a link.

> Where is this coming from?  I was not even talking about wrong or right...
>
The attitudes expressed clearly indicate that a lot people on this
list who contribute (about 20) regard juggling as the only relevant
freestyle -- they have no use at all for the beauty and grace of
footbag dance.  Some people do make posts talking about dance
and such and it's clear they love it -- thousands do! One of the
posts I made to this list was bounced because it stated the list is
for discussion of "advanced freestyle" only, not footbag dance.
However, just that week there were two other emails about footbag
dance.  Is that an attitude or what?!?!  We contend that certain
jugglers, one apparently in key positions, have the attitude not we
and we are trying to clear that up.

> > "Footbag Dance" books.  This is a good thing, I think.  What has
> > .org given away recently?
>
> Now you are just getting plain silly.  (see Derric's response which is
> undoubtedly echoed by many on this list).
>
I saw all the responses and if .org got you kicking then great.  That
does not, however, change the fact that it promotes juggling only
as a freestyle.  Look, we know that .org has some good aspects
but this one flaw, refusing to recognize anything other than juggling
as relevant, is keeping it from having the endorsement footbag
kickers everywhere and by .com.  Until that changes it is our
position that .org is doing a disservice to many, many kickers all
over this planet.  We will not budge on this issue.  It is such a large
issue that it sullies other good things that .org does (like the club
list which is great).

For instance, this list should really be open to all persons who wish
to discuss any type of freestyle matter without them being insulted
and treated badly.  Additonaly, the personal emails I have had from
Steve Goldberg are ugly, liblous, demeaning, and thoroughly
disgusting.  All because I dare to say my opinion.  That is not
freedom, it is not cooperation, and it is stupid.  We consider this
attitude to be a detriment to the sport.

> I have to go get some legwarmers to keep my ankles warm while I shred, but
> I anticipate your response to this message.  (see, you are not the only
> one who can get plain silly... or was that stoopid?)

For sure, keep those legs warm and keep kicking, of whatever
style!!!  And oh, I'm out of here -- spent enough time trying to
explain where the problem lies.  Best wishes in whatever any style
you all do -- kicking is the thing.  Please, though, respect other
styles that do not include a juggling or stalling factor.....we know
you love what you do and so do footbag dancers!  Everyone wants
to share, that's why we promote exhibitions for footbag dancers.
Include them in, it's a beautiful thing which is being overlooked by
.org and the rules it supports for tournaments.  You all can do
whatever you want -- we just ask that you consider some
exhibitions and being nice to people who want to just kick the
footbag alone, together, to music, with fluid movement and a
completely impelling connection with the footbag where the kicker
and the bag become one -- footbag dance in the Bloughchi, non-
competitive style.  Surely you can make room for this?  Because if
you don't you will be ruling out participation with thousands of
kickers everywhere to say nothing of spectators who love it.

I'm off the list.  It's been interesting.


Sandra O'Connor
webmaster@footbag.com
[ home | help | lists | which | info | index ]
Majordomo-WWW Gateway V1.3.4 by Marcos Ramírez